IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-05-26

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greentuxare there modest packages for testing around?00:55
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tigerttrevarthan: no worries, we are nice folks :)01:22
tigert < something completely different and offtopic :)01:22
Sulishmm, boats and planes01:23
tigertthe weather was nice tonight01:23
tigertI warned, its totally off topic :)01:23
Sulisyou took those tonight?01:25
Sulissome of them are really nice01:25
tigertyeah, the light was pretty nice01:25
Sulisyeah, it looks lovely01:26
Sulisi keep encountering the finnish language now, and so i want to learn it01:28
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Sulisheh, but it seems that every finn that i meet speaks perfect english01:30
tigertwrites on irc at least :)01:30
tigertbut yeah, considering we learn it from 3rd grade, it would be weird if we didnt know it at all :)01:30
tigertplus all the US tv series run on our TV as well01:31
zeenixSulis: you haven't met the taxi drivers in finland?01:31
tigertzeenix: haha01:31
Suliszeenix: no, i haven't01:31
Sulisheh, there there is very rarely any language other than english on english tv... :(01:32
zeenixSulis: and you haven't come across the type who would seem very rude but then it turns out that they just didn't have the confidence to say 'hello' in english? :)01:32
tigertzeenix: yeah, thats unfortunate01:32
tigertbut that exists01:32
tigertfinns are shy to speak in english01:32
Sulisbut that's fear of making a fool of yourself01:33
tigertand the fact that we have very good courses of english grammar and volcabulary01:33
tigertbut not that much spoken excercises01:33
tigertthus our accent is pretty horrid and people are ashamed of it, and fear of stumbling on what they try to say01:34
Sulisi kinda like the accent :P01:34
tigertits sorta cute :)01:34
tigertthe "Mika Häkkinen" voice01:34
Sulisheh, well i don't watch formula one so i don't know01:35
jumpula"the race was very hard"01:36
zeenixSulis: so i take it that you have moved to finland recently?01:38
Suliszeenix: nope01:39
Sulisi'm encountering finnish on the net, although i'm thinking of visiting finnland later in the year01:40
* zeenix scratches head01:41
zeenixSulis: why? :)01:41
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zeenixSulis: encouraging finnish i mean01:41
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MolagiSulis i recommend you visit when its summer here :P01:42
tigertwell. winter is an experience too01:42
Sulisi don't see enough snow :P01:42
tigertbut then one needs to go to north01:42
tigertin mid-winter01:43
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Molagiyeah, lapland is nice01:44
Molaginot so dark and depressing01:44
jumpulalapland, home of lapdancing01:44
Molagiindeed :d01:44
tigert < hm, good search it seems01:45
Suliszeenix: why are you confused that someone would want to learn your language?01:46
tigertzeenix is not a native finnish speaker01:46
tigerthe just works here :)01:47
tigertbut man. we need to go to lapland as a team01:47
tigertduring the darkest winter01:47
tigertthat would rock01:47
zeenixSulis: i've been here for two years but haven't even grasped the basics01:47
zeenixtigert: it's a bit more than that i think since i have a gf in here now :)01:48
tigertoh, then its motivation to learn the language :)01:48
Sulisi don't mind a challenge, and i find grammar interesting01:48
tigert"interesting" is a very mild term01:49
jumpulagrammar or the lack of one? :)01:49
tigertthey say its one of the most "interesting" grammars, in par with japanese01:49
tigertthere is grammar01:49
tigertits just full of exceptions :)01:49
jumpulayes, there is01:49
Sulisjapanese grammar is not hard01:49
jumpulabut it's non-trivial to figure out on-the-fly01:49
zeenixminä haluan tapPan jumpulaa :)01:50
tigertok, time to take the dogs out and then sleep01:50
tigertttyl :)01:50
Sulisseeya tigert01:51
Suliszeenix: what does that mean?01:51
zeenixSulis: removing the 'P', it would mean 'i want to meet jumpula'01:51
zeenixbut with a p more, it means 'i want to kill jumpula' :)01:52
jumpulayeah, but the verbs here bend in a funny fashion01:52
jumpulaso, in that context it would be like01:52
jumpulahaluan tavata jumpulan01:52
jumpulahaluan tappaa jumpulan01:53
jumpulap changes to v01:53
tigertyeah, but there is a way where this works too01:53
jumpulaor other way round, since in the base form it's v01:53
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tigert"hän tapaa jumpulan" vs "hän tappaa jumpulan"01:53
tigertis correct, just different form of sentence01:54
jumpulabend is not the correct term, but don't remember the grammatic term at the moment01:54
tigert"he/she will meet jumpula" vs "he/she will kill jumpula" :)01:54
jumpulano post or pre posiotions01:54
jumpulatheir function is embedded in the words :)01:54
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tigertkoti = home. at home = kotona. from home = kotoa. from ones home = kotoaan, into ones home = kotiinsa01:55
tigertetc, easy? :)01:55
Sulisno, it's not easy, but that makes it worth doing01:56
jumpulago fishing = mennä kalaan, enter a fish (go inside a fish) = mennä kalaan01:56
jumpulathe latter has really no meaning and therefore not used :)01:57
jumpulabut that demonstrates the behavior of the language01:57
tigertholu crap, that is long01:57
Sulislol, i guess you can tell by the context in a sense like that01:57
jumpulaif one opts for challenge, then icelandic could be worth trying for01:57
zeenixwhy don't we all just start speaking klingon01:57
jumpulazeenix: i was wondering when you might bring that up :D01:58
tigertyIrqI' yIy yIy qaSvI' 'oH pongwIj'e' 'ej vInlan yejquvDaq jIjeS. pa' DIvI' SuDqu' vI'oS.01:58
Molagioh my god01:58
Suliszeenix: klingon is like swallowing sandpaper though01:58
zeenixis that the politician01:59
tigertwell, and a geek01:59
tigertmostly a geek, who also got into politics01:59
Molagigood strategy to fish some votes01:59
ferulodamm, I got a call today from my landord02:00
ferulocomplains about the music02:00
zeenixi would vote for him if i had a vote02:00
xanferulo, WHO complained02:00
Sulisjumpula: but icelandic i've not encountered02:00
feruloYOU KNOW02:00
xanSAY IT02:00
feruloI cannot understand this finnish guys!02:00
Sulisjumpula: that seems a lot like latin...02:01
jumpulaSulis: i tried to fill an icelandic immigration form couple of years ago02:01
ferulolook xan now everyone is silent!02:02
jumpulai was unable to deduce most of the stuff02:02
xanferulo, because you said the words02:02
ferulothey are scared!02:02
jumpulawords didn't resemble anything i know02:02
Sulisjumpula: you're a linguist?02:03
jumpulai really know only little of grammar (for any language) but it's fun to deduce stuff based on other languages :)02:04
zeenixSulis: he is damn trekkie02:04
jumpulazeenix: takes one to know one ;)02:04
Molagiferulo, so Martti Ahtisaari complained about music?02:05
tigertok sleep &02:05
Sulishehe, i used to call myself trekkie, but i dunno anymore...02:05
feruloMolagi: yep02:05
jumpulaany good scifi goes02:06
jumpulatrek was my introduction to the genre, so there's some nostalgy there02:06
Sulisyeah, i grew up with the next generation really02:07
feruloMolagi: I lived in the aparment below mine02:07
feruloand that's what my landlord told me, so either it said it, either my landlord is a lier02:07
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Molagiyou better watch out, martti may still have some political powers :D02:12
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xanwhen he doesn't come to work on monday I'll use his monitor for some xinerama love, so it's all fine02:14
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Sulisrandom question: when a finn speaks english they kinda stretch the vowels a bit or something...and i like that, it's kinda sexy, so does a native english speaker speak finnish with too short vowels and sound...harsh?02:16
Molagidont know, never really heard anyone native english speaker speak finnish :P02:17
feruloMolagi: well, I hope he can do only as any our finnish citizen can do. I guess that in this supposed democracy we all have same rights and duties02:18
MolagiSulis atleast i cant recall :/02:18
feruloif he uses his political power to stop me puting opera on saturdays mornings then I won't trust this zero-corruption thing02:18
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tigertferulo: wireless headphones :)02:19
Sulishahaha, opera on headphones02:19
Molagimust be lame02:19
tigertopera saturday mornings does not sound like fun when its not your choice :)02:19
tigertbut anyway, off to the saturday mornings without opera (hopefully ;))02:20
ferulowell, my mornings usually starts at 13.0002:20
tigertah. that is a bit different then. in finland we call it "afternoon" ;)02:21
Molagii wish my mornings would start at 13.0002:21
Sulisi wish the mornings when i have to work would start at 13:00 but not my saturday mornings02:22
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oilhi, one basic question: on n800, how can I get shell access and sshd on the device10:04
pyhimysoil: yes10:09
pyhimysoil: there is instructions on the site10:09
oilok. thanks. I'll follow that one10:11
zakxoil: better follow
zakxit's not as outdated as the first one10:12
oilthanks. and the instructions for 770 and 800 are the same?10:12
zakxthat's messed up10:12
zakxwait a second, i'll get my n800 and walk you through10:12
zakxoil: so, do you have the last firmware installed?10:14
oilzakx: yes. I'll have the latest10:15
oilthis will take a while. I'll add up all the repositories to the terminal10:15
zakxnotice that you shouldn't use "mistral" repositories10:15
zakxthat's the old maemo 2.0 release10:16
zakxn800 runs 3.1, so you need to add "bora"-repositories10:16
zakxyou should also add no repositories meant for use with the SDK10:16
zakxas they will most likely brick your installation10:17
zakxfor openssh you'll want "deb bora free non-free"10:17
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zakxyou can add that using the GUI package manager10:18
zakxif you did not do this yet, activate the red pill mode:
oilok thanks. I'll try to get things working. nice to learn about the device10:19
zakxyou'll need that as the application only installs and displays user/*-packages10:19
zakxwhen in red pill mode, you can install everything, but be careful with that ;)10:20
zakxafter these steps you can easily select "openssh" via the program and install it10:20
zakxyou'll be able to ssh into it now (as root, password is "rootme")10:20
zakxbetter change the password after your first login10:20
zakxif you want a terminal on the device itself, there's a package named osso-terminal or something like that10:21
oilyes. better. or i'll have some unwanted visitors on the device :)10:21
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oilcool. now I'm on root access to the n800 :)10:42
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Dazgardhi there10:49
Dazgardim trying to code a little multitrak app for sound recording with python/gst10:49
Dazgardwhere can i get code sample, tutorial and doc please ?10:50
Dazgardim searching for maemo specifique stuff10:50
Dazgardok cool10:52
melmothand of course:10:52
oilI forgot to say big thanks for the help :)10:54
Dazgardthanks, are there any python/gst  stuff specofic to maemo, i mean things like dspmp3sink for example10:54
melmothi know nothing about gstreamer, so i dont know.10:54
Dazgardok, anyway thanks fpr the links abobe ;)10:54
zakxoil: you're welcome :)10:56
oilthere will be lot's of question for more.. after I'll get introduced with this device :)10:57
oilbtw. do you know how to sniff which wlan AP's are around?10:57
`0660oil, just click the globe in the top right corner and it will show you available ap's :)11:02
oilor even better. if the terminal connects to a certain wlan apn, then I can do some actions11:02
oil:) but I'm looking for an daemon or similar for wall garden11:03
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oileg. when the device finds an open ssid, which requires login. the device would do the login automatically11:07
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tkonow we only need flexible cpu: :)12:32
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eichihello ;)12:44
eichiI want to buy an nokia n800, is it advisable ?12:45
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inzeichi, depends on whom you ask and what you're looking for12:52
inzeichi, generally I'd say: "Hell yeah!"12:52
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eichiwhich desktop runs on the n800? i dont know this one on linux13:02
eichithere is no problem, killing software like opera and install firefox etc?13:08
melmothwell, i dont know13:10
melmothi use opera13:10
eichihm okay13:11
eichiyou use wlan for surfing in the internet?13:11
melmothwireless lan ? yep13:12
melmoththere is no other choice.13:12
inzsure there is13:12
melmothwell, actually there is a way to have network via usb13:12
inzOr grps with a bluetooth phone13:12
melmothoh yeah, i forgot this one13:12
inzHad I a company paid phone, that'd be my primary access13:14
inzNow I only use wlan @home or @work13:14
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cb22Hi there! A bit off topic, but.... I'm part of the project thats porting Linux to the H63XX series of iPaqs, which happen to have a vary similar processor (OMAP1510) and the same DSP (TMS320C55x), albit at a lower frequency. Never having worked with a DSP before, I'm wondering would it be possible to checkout all the DSP related things, like dspgateway and the gstreamer dsp sinks, compile them, and run them on the iPaq?16:06
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MDKI don't think we've got this parts open16:24
MDKdsp things are rather on the proprietary side16:31
oil_iih. 1 day and bricked n800 :)16:38
oil_the device refuses to boot anymore16:38
oil_maybe a reinstallation of the os would help?16:39
zuhMost likely, unless you did something really naughty16:39
oil_not really. hopefully16:40
oil_i suppose there is no 'safe' mode boot ?16:40
Juhazbut turning the software watchdog off might help, depend on why it's not booting16:44
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oil_Juhaz: how to do that? the device tries to boot but fails. I can not do anything?16:45
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Juhazat what point of the boot process does it fail?16:45
oil_I get the Nokia logo. Then after a while it just reboots itself16:46
zuhNo progressbar?16:46
oil_it got to a third or something16:46
unique311_what would cause a program to run great in the scratchbox environment....and to seg fault on the device...16:47
oil_now I re-installad the image.. and progressbar went all the way to the end16:47
unique311_no errors on the device...16:47
oil_ok. now it's ok.16:47
unique311_Visual 0 will use shared memory for X Segmentation fault16:47
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unique311_i'm thinking its the optimize CFLAGS i used in scratchbox..16:48
unique311_the program is apple IIgs emulator....kegs.16:49
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unique311anybody in here17:46
unique311ok i'll take maybe17:47
unique311got some issues...17:47
unique311i compiled...kegs..which is a apple IIgs emulator..17:48
unique311works fine in scratchbox, but when i run it on the device it seg faults....17:48
unique311with no erros...17:48
unique311is that a common thing for an app to work in scratchbox and not work on the device..17:49
melmothmine segfault already in scractchbox :)17:51
unique311apple IIgs?17:52
melmothnon the apps i write in scracthbox17:52
melmothi never had a pb such as a segfualt on the device that did not occurs in scratchbox17:53
unique311how do i kill the hildon desktop..and if i do, will i get a terminal..17:53
unique311thats my works in scratchbox the ARM environment also....17:54
unique311but segfaults on the device..17:54
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unique311if it did, and gave me an error....i would be happy..17:55
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melmothmaybe using gdb on the device itself would help ?
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unique311too much18:01
unique311i figure its a memory issue..18:02
unique311been working on this thing for 3 days..18:02
unique311got it working...just to be dissapointed when running it on the device..18:02
unique311i'm over it..18:03
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negenAnyone here familiar with Blue Serial?18:52
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melmothis there a way to 'sniff' what is happening on the osso dbus bus ?19:07
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molkkomelmoth, is dbus-monitor available. at least in ubuntu it seems to work ok19:20
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melmothmolkko: and you can check what is going on in the scratchbox bus ?19:22
molkkomelmoth, dunno about scratchbox but now i did try dbus-monitor in my n800 and it really seems to work19:23
melmothoh, it s available in the sdk.19:24
melmoth[sbox-SDK_X86: ~/dev/rapier/trunk] > dbus-monitor19:24
melmothFailed to open connection to session message bus: Unable to determine the address of the message bus19:24
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molkkotry --system parameter19:30
melmothit works for the system bus, like it starts19:31
lmouramelmoth, did you start the session with
melmothbut what i m intersested in is probably on the user bus19:31
melmothyes, i have a whole session runing in xephyr19:32
melmoththe idea is to unedrestand why an app taht is started correctly with the menu, just dies somes seconds later19:32
melmothno core, nothing19:32
melmothi expect something related to osso and dbus and stuff, but am clueless on how to investigate this way19:32
melmothwhen i start the application with the hildon menu , i see nothing in dbus-monitor with --system, so it s probably not on the system bus i have to look19:33
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melmothmhhh, works better on the tablet actually19:36
trevarthantigert: where do I get one of these?
molkkowhere do i get apache+php to n800?19:37
trevarthanThat reminds me that I've been thinking a lot lately that a screen rotate function would be handy on my n800. Sometimes you just need more height than width, you know?19:38
molkkoor does not have to be apache but any webserver that works without excess hassle with php19:38
trevarthanmolkki: I remember seeing phpcgi in the app manager.19:38
trevarthansorry, molkko19:38
trevarthanAnd I think there is an httpd server in there too. not apache though.19:39
trevarthanyou gonna use your n800 as a mobile demonstration server?19:39
oil_I'm also interested about dbus. how could I do, that the device would run a script, when connected to a certain wlan SSID ?19:40
tigerttrevarthan: it was just a mockup19:41
tigerttrevarthan: but19:41
tigertthere is a hp calculator ported to the device19:41
tigertthe mockup was just to encourage people think in portrait mode as well19:41
trevarthanoil_: If you figure that out, let me know too. I'd love be able to run scripts when the wlan if goes up.19:41
tigertsince the one existing had the keypad split in two pieces side by side19:42
oil_trevarthan: I will. at least there is nothin on dbus-monitor when doing the connection19:42
trevarthantigert: I think you've got something there.19:42
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trevarthantigert: you don't have a link to the existing hp calc do ya? Been searching google and and I don't see it.19:44
oil_dbus-monitor --system seems to get the information19:44
oil_but how to run a script for that19:45
tigertbut this is horizontal in the first place19:46
tigertbut one should really design these as fullscreen apps :)19:46
trevarthanwhy the heck doesn't that show up when searching for 'calc' or 'calculator'.19:47
tigertthat is something you can file a bug for19:48
trevarthanHow does work? Is there like a maintainer for each package? Or is it an organization that manages it?19:49
tigertwell19:49 is the opensource effort of nokia, if that defines it good enough19:50
tigertand is basically g-forge installation19:50
tigertwhere anyone can get an account to host a project19:50
tigertand those can be added to the catalog19:50
tigertso while its a job for some people, its also a community thing - like X-Fade_ has been helping a lot with the web layout etc19:51
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trevarthanthat 42 doesn't behave like a normal calculator. I'd have to learn to use it.19:58
trevarthanAre there any TI calc emulators for maemo?19:58
melmothNow, thats app does not crash on its own anymore if i s/org.maemo.rapier/com.maemo.rapier/ everywhere, and change the service file name accordingly20:02
melmothis this..a bug ?20:02
melmothi meant changing org.maemo.rapier to
trevarthanmelmoth: I'm probably alone, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about.20:05
melmothtrevarthan: this is about how to start apps from the hildon menu20:08
melmothand s its really really really ...hmmm. strange i should say :)20:08
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tigerttrevarthan: its reverse polish notation, the hp calculators had that20:10
tigertsome people love it20:10
trevarthanmelmoth: so, you're changing X-Osso-Service and it doesn't crash?20:11
trevarthantigert: yeah, my boss has one of those I think. He showed it to me. I prefer a good TI-82/83, I think.20:11
melmothtrevarthan: that s it trevarthan does not crash anymore if i call the service nokia.something, and not maemo.something20:12
trevarthantigert: maybe this?
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trevarthandoesn't compile without some effort, it seems. I might take a look at this after I port autossh to maemo.20:19
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eichihello, is maemo multi user ? can I use for example the n800 with 2 users, different logins like I do on my linux desktop?22:09
trevarthaneichi: no, I don22:10
keesjI guess so22:10
trevarthan't think so22:10
`0660yes, it is22:10
trevarthanhmmm... news to me. How does that work?22:11
keesjbut I really don't know how dbus and other services are supposed to work in multi-user modes22:11
`0660i'm not sure about the desktop either22:11
keesjeichi: you don't want to run sessions in parallel but have a xdm like login right?22:12
eichikeesj: yes ;)22:12
keesjI was more thinking on kernel/ssh/login level22:12
eichior remote login on my desktop? not really ;D ?22:12
trevarthaneichi: Well, you could always VNC into another machine, but I think you lose the on-screen keyboard then.22:13
keesjinteresing, I guess it will requires some hacking with patchs but I would be an interesting exercies,22:14
trevarthaneichi: I've never seen a user login interface like xdm on my n800.22:14
trevarthanWe need to modify rdesktop to have a hovering button to pop up the onscreen kb or something.22:15
keesjeichi: I don't think it has been done before.22:17
keesjWhat has been done becore is installing a debian arm and connect to it using vnc,22:18
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keesjeichi there are already plenty of accountsirc:*:39:39:ircd:/var/run/ircd:/bin/sh22:33
keesjsorry I have a very laggy connection atm22:34
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eichicharging the battery from a n800 with solarcells? possible?22:41
eichimaking it more mobile ;)22:44
keesjeichi: what kind of fun project are your investigating?22:44
eichiI ask only for interesst22:45
keesjtoday I have bought a new photo camera , it's a Olympus Mju 770 SW, it can go under water22:46
keesjI guess the n800 sould also be water proof that would be so cool22:46
keesjperhaps the olpc is more the way to go :P22:47
eichivery usefull, browsing in the internet under water22:47
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keesjI quick grep over /etc/init.d shows at least a few su - user command22:51
eichithe n800 uses 17mW in idle22:53
eichi2,3 W with video call22:54
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eichisomeone has an n800 and can say me the volt of loading?22:58
keesjthe adapter is saying 5V22:59
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keesjeichi and in suspend?23:00
eichikeesj: and amphere?23:02
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keesj890 mA23:04
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trevarthanarg... my autossh package doesn't work.23:12
trevarthanworks from dev environment, but not from device.23:13
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trevarthanah. configure must have hardcoded the ssh binary path using /scratchbox somehow.23:20
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trevarthanAutoSSH deb, if anyone wants it:
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