IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-05-16

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dolfunyou people work on a little piece of hardware01:49
dolfunand other people work to enslave you and threaten you with electrocution of the testicles01:50
dolfunwe are talking about maemo01:50
dolfunand people are threatening us with electrocution01:50
dolfunwhat is the first order of business?01:50
dolfunmy suggestion is we eliminate the threat of the psychopaths01:51
dolfunwho want to peel the skin of of people and stick electrodes up our anuses01:52
* shackan_ suggests to ignore the troll01:52
dolfunthat would be the first order of businesses01:52
dolfunshackan_: look at US politics01:52
dolfunthen, after the threat to our anuses is eliminated01:52
dolfunwe can talk about software again01:53
dolfunjust a humble suggestion... i will stop now01:53
zakxif you want to talk about politics, go to #debian01:53
dolfun give me your home address01:53
dolfunand we can talk about politics01:54
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dolfunpolitics is force01:54
dolfunand torture01:54
dolfunwant to meet me?01:54
dolfunwant to meet bush's cia?01:54
dolfunor do you want to stop them?01:54
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dolfunthey are torturing people without trial right now01:55
dolfun"oh it does not belong in maemo"01:55
dolfunthat's exactly what you will say when they stick a burning stick up your ass01:55
dolfun"i'm a maemo developer!  maaaaaaaaaeeeeeh!"01:56
dolfunwhat relevance will it have to your software development01:56
dolfunwhen people stick burining rods up your ass?01:56
dolfunanr you want to program software?01:56
dolfunnot much relevane?01:56
dolfunoh dolfun is not relevant to maemo software?01:57
dolfunconsider that01:57
dolfunamerican torture is not relevant to your life01:57
fer__You have been registered and located in Germany - Berlin01:58
dolfununtil they start ripping your body apart01:58
dolfunfor no reason01:58
zakxdolfun: troll woanders.01:58
dolfunkein troll01:58
dolfundie machen das01:58
dolfunist wichtig01:58
zakxes interessiert wirklich niemanden.01:58
dolfunoh wo wohnst du01:58
dolfunich kanns sehr bald relevant machen01:59
dolfundu auch01:59
dolfunkannst behaupten ich waere irgend ein terrorist01:59
dolfunund schon sind meine sachen beschlagnamt02:00
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dolfunund meine ganze projeckte im arsch02:00
dolfunnur ne kleine anzeige02:00
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dolfunes interresiert niemanden02:01
dolfunausser die leute die gefoletert wurden02:01
dolfunlol du  gummi baer idiot02:01
dolfunfucking scheisskopf02:02
dolfuninterrriesiert die 600,000 toten02:02
dolfunand we talk about protocols02:02
dolfunand our governments support mass murder02:02
dolfunwith bush02:02
dolfunno excuse02:03
zakxwenn du was bewegen willst ist das eine gute sache02:03
zakxaber da bist du hier falsch02:03
zakxbastel dirn molotovcocktail und renn in den reichstag02:03
dolfunich hoer auf jetzt02:03
dolfunaber gewalt ist nicht erlaubt02:04
zakxdas grundgesetz ermächtigt dich02:04
zakx§20.4 oder so02:04
zakxoder .302:04
dolfuni apologise for my drunk / besoffen anger02:04
dolfuni care about people and i want to reduce the pain and death02:05
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dolfunif you want to test me, we can arrange something02:05
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dolfuni will kill myself if there is enough publicity02:05
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unique311K, what is going on...02:10
unique311dolfun, life is beautiful man, You woke up this morning be happy....don't worry about the worlds politics and injustice...let the politicians worry  about that.02:12
unique311unless otherwise you are a politician...then go ahead and worry....02:12
unique311hello everybody else....02:12
unique311channel has been inactive lately...more developing less talking, huh...02:13
shackan_I really wonder what drugs he's on02:14
shackan_no wait, I don't02:14
unique311called alcohol....02:15
unique311been there...but not hating life there...or the world...02:15
unique311just fucked up....02:15
unique311hes like at what i call border of just being wasted...where life seems uncool to him....a couple of more bottles or shots, and wasted will follow..02:16
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sandmanAnyone here have experience with ext3?03:27
sandmanOn a flash drive?03:27
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neostriderhello folks03:44
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unique311so im going to ask the question again....anyone tried the usb host hack for the n800 yet?03:59
neostridernot really...03:59
neostrideri just have a 77003:59
unique311compiled anything new to share?04:00 updaling a test version of my game right now04:01
neostriderbut its not on maemo yet04:01
unique311you working on the tron game correct?04:01
neostrider(ive tested it on the was a older version..worked...but quite slowly)04:01
neostriderits almost done04:01
neostriderits don04:01
unique311how is that going?04:01
neostriderbut I must optimize it first04:01
unique311vid or screenshot?04:02
neostriderits quite slow on device...04:02
unique311well any new screenies?04:02
neostridersome screens:04:02
neostriderthis post is somewhat old04:03
neostriderbut has some nice shots04:03
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neostrideryeah...and the game is HARD!04:04
neostriderits FUN!04:04
neostrider...and predicatable =-P04:05
unique311great work....04:05
neostrideronce you know how to beat the opponent, it becomes a lot easier to beat him agaim with the same strategy04:05
unique311i've manage to compile a paint program for maemo....04:06
unique311but when it comes to hildonizing04:06
unique311im lost04:06
unique311so i just use it as it is..04:06
neostriderI also did a paint program with SDL (I guess its the hello world of the touchscreen plataforms...I did the same with Windows CE 1.0 way back ago ;-) )04:07
neostridertake a look:
unique311find better upload, and download speeds..04:08
unique311big files size04:08
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unique311made 2 groups on it already04:08
unique311maemo and n80004:09
unique311rapidshare got to technical...04:09
unique311no limit on divshare...and no 5 mintue wait time to dl another file..04:10
neostriderthats great!04:10
unique311don't forget to join the groups04:11
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unique311also had a gimp src for zaurus compiled..working....but the guys at #gimp, were not to happy i chose an old version of it to compile...04:17
neostriderworked on Maemo?!04:17
unique311open 3 windows04:18
neostridercan you get me the deb?04:18
unique311lets see if i still have it hanging around...04:18
unique311heres a vid04:19
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unique311bad video...04:25
unique311found it04:25
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neostriderunique331: the splash shows TheGimp 2.0?!04:36
neostriderhow can it be old!?04:36
neostriderits not bleeding new , but its quite new!04:36
neostridermy desktop gimp is 2.2!04:37
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unique311here it is04:37
unique311i know its like 2.0.2 or 304:38
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neostriderare you pupnik?!04:38
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unique311going to also upload the src that worked for me to the group maemo on divshare04:38
unique311Pupnik has been MIA04:39
neostridermissing  in action?!04:41
unique311he came in earlier said whats up fuckers and exited...04:41
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unique311let me kno w if the binary i gave u the link to work...04:42
unique311its compiled for bora04:42
neostriderim using gregalle04:43
neostriderit may not work04:43
neostridermaybe the source will04:43
unique311hold on04:43
neostriderok =-)04:45
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unique311--withough-print... something like that/ make sure you run ./configure --help04:48
unique311it will not compile with print04:48
unique311forgot the flags i used..04:48
unique311going to try to recreate04:48
neostriderdont worry04:48
neostriderI will dig on that later04:48
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kakosIs /media/mmc1 the internal card on the N800?05:04
zakxmmc2 is on my n80005:04
zakxmmc1 is the external05:05
kakoszakx: Thanks05:05
zakxyou're welcom05:05
kakosSo, I'm booting off of the internal memory card on my N800.  Unfortunately, it seems that this prevents me from mounting the other partition on the internal card via the USB cable.  Anyone know a way around this?05:09
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zakxtechnically, the n800 would umount both sd cards before making them available through usb05:20
zakxif the umount fails, the partition won't be shared via usb-storage05:20
zakxas you're booting off it, it can't umount the card.05:21
zakxguess you'd have to change some code anywhere to change behaviour, as the n800 usually expects sd-cards to just have 1 partition05:22
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kakoszakx: Any idea where it does that umount?05:43
zakxi'd install sysklogd and check /var/log/syslog05:43
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kakosTEH w00t05:52
kakoszakx: I did it.  in /etc/init.d/ke-recv, change all instances of mmcblk0 to mmcblk0p105:52
sandmanAnyone alive?06:01
zakxkakos: congrats :)06:03
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Hegelhey. my cjk support DL Keeps failing. anyone Know where I can DL the .deb file?06:30
derfFrom the repository?06:35
derfIt's just an http server.06:35
sandmanTrouble I'm having is that ext3 seems to corrupt itself while in-use06:37
Hegeloh. Let's See if I can find it06:37
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Hegelwhy don't they use rsynch?06:41
derfHegel: I think Debian pre-dates rsync.06:44
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`0660hegel, rsync for downloading single packages?07:23
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HegelI'm Still having trouble getting CJK Support07:27
`0660what advantages it would offer compared to plain http?07:27
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`0660i don't see any...07:27
Hegeldifferent Protocol?07:28
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`0660is that a good thing? :)07:29
Hegelwhy does my 13mb dl keep failing?07:29
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`0660well, with rsync it would probably be easier for you to complete your download07:30
`0660but it's been a while i have seen a link so unstable it wouldn't be able support the download of a 13mb file07:31
Hegeltry installing C JK support for JaPanese07:32
`0660where are you downloading the file from?07:32
`0660give me the url and i'll try to dl it07:32
Hegelif it doesn't fail to download, it Says the installation file iS corrupt.07:35
`0660try to get it from there07:35
`0660that's the first one and you will probably need more07:35
`0660you have n800 don't you?07:35
derf`0660: Debian _normally_ can do partial downloads and resume.07:36
derfBut the N800 is a little agressive about purging the cache.07:37
derfFor some strange reason.07:37
`0660well, it's better that way than the way it works on the desktop :)07:37
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`0660Nokia-N800-10:/etc/apt# cat apt.conf.d/00-smallcache07:39
`0660APT { Small-Cache-Limit 1600000 };07:39
`0660the apt.conf.d/99-docpurge look even more interesting07:41
`0660hmm, no it isn't :)07:41
`0660just: rm -rf /usr/share/doc/* /usr/share/man/* /usr/share/info/*07:41
`0660and a comment: # Real hackers don't read docs.07:42
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Hegelwere you able to install from that link I sent?07:43
`0660i don't have the guts to install japanese support :)07:44
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HegelC'mon! you know you want to! :)07:45
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sandmanMy flash devices seem to consistently report incorrect space utilization08:27
sandmanAs well as seemingly having a habit of just ignoring access... for instance, when running wget, the download will just stop08:28
sandmanThat seemed to only happen with ext3, however.08:28
sandmanWhen I'm running FAT on the flash drive, it still misreports space... I had about 800MB worth of files on there, and then I deleted them.08:29
sandmanThe SD card appeared empty when looking at its contents08:29
sandmanBut it said that it was full whenever I tried to move something to it. When I checked to see the free space, it said how much it had _before_ I removed the files!08:29
kulve"flash devices"?08:40
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sandmanSD cards, rather09:07
kulvesandman: how are you using them? In n800 on your PC through the usb mass storage? Linux? Windows?09:10
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CopolycubeGood morning.12:29
keesjHi qube12:37
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|tbb|is subversion for bora at least ported?14:11
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Jari--hi... I am looking for a stock icon package for Maemo15:11
Jari--a packet that contains all the basic icons used in toolbars of Maemo applications, in gif or png format preferably15:11
kulveI would guess that the default icon set is not freely distributable..15:14
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greentuxis the wireless card on n800 802.11b or g?15:45
greentux11 or 54 mbit?15:45
kulve54 iirc15:45
gla55g iirc15:45
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greentuxtnx... is there something like "iwconfig" to see such things on the command line?15:46
VeggenI had to talk to a real enduser, today.15:46
Veggenwithout any warning. Whatsoever.15:46
VeggenCustomer service called, said that a customer had some problems. "Ah, I see", I said (tho in Norwegian), and they said "Hold on", and transfered him through.15:47
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Veggen(I'm doing Unix stuff for a bank, normally in quite a safe distance from the bank customers ;)15:48
kulvegreentux: seems not to be (at least out of the box)15:48
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Copolycubehum... I can't find any info about that...16:36
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Copolycubebut is OS2007 suitable for ne n770 ?16:36
Copolycubeor is it _only_ for the n800 ?16:37
kulvethere's a "hacker edition" of os2007 for 77016:37
VeggenOnly for the N800, but there's a partllu and unofficial backport.16:37
gla55official os2007 is n800 only16:37
Copolycubehum... so it leads to another question.16:37
kulvebut it seems that the os2007on770 works at least decently?16:37
CopolycubeSince Maemo is the official web site16:38
Copolycubewhere to find this kind of infos ?16:38
VeggenMaemo is the community web-site.16:38
VeggenI guess.16:38
kulvewith some official sdk related info16:38
kulvei.e. maemo related16:38
VeggenAnd the community of course supports os2007on770 as well as it can.16:38
koen"as well as it can" == "no access to needed binary nokia crap"16:39
kulveCopolycube: around the pages. It's pretty hard to find anything, especially now since all the links in google are broken..16:39
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Copolycubeok thx16:40
CopolycubeI think I'll stay with the 2006 ;-)16:41
CopolycubeI got no pb And I got to develop some bluetooth things with it.16:41
Copolycubeand what is the difference between mistral and gregale ?16:44
kulvemistral is old16:44
Copolycubeare they "compatible" in any way ? (software packages)16:44
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bedboihi there.16:44
bedboiis there any way to get alarmd sources?16:44
kulveCopolycube: people should use gregale for developing, I guess16:45
Copolycubekulve, : in the time (past--> now) it's16:46
Copolycubebora > mistral > gregale16:46
muebelackerbedboi: what do you man?16:47
kulvebora is for n800, mistral and gragale is for 77016:47
kulveand gregale is newer than mistral16:47
muebelackerbedboi: mean16:48
bedboimuebelacker: i mean where to get the sources of alarmd :)16:51
bedboii had 0.4 version, but i can't find it anymore16:51
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X-Fadebedboi: Although they didn't open websvn..16:55
etrunkoapt-get source?16:58
kulveGet:1 bora/free alarmd 0.4.3 (dsc) [474B]16:59
kulveGet:2 bora/free alarmd 0.4.3 (tar) [98.0kB]16:59
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bedboithank you very much17:03
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inzbedboi, seems to have both 0.4.0 and 0.4.317:04
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trevarthanIn the Filemanager, there is a Documents folder. It doesn't seem to exist in xterm under my home dir. What's the path?17:53
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trevarthanNm. .documents17:56
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lodecesahi at all18:02
lodecesaobviously I'm here for a problem with maemo18:03
lodecesai'm trying the tutorial example on the site18:04
lodecesawhen i try to compile i receive this:18:04
lodecesa[sbox-SDK_X86: ~] > gcc -o maemo_hello maemo_hello.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs`maemo_hello.c: In function `main':maemo_hello.c:6: error: `HildonProgram' undeclared (first use in this function)maemo_hello.c:6: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only oncemaemo_hello.c:6: error: for each function it appears in.)maemo_hello.c:6: error: `prog18:04
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lodecesawhat´s appening?18:05
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trevarthanIs there any way to copy text from the web browser? I try dragging the pen, but it just scrolls the window.19:25
gla55painting the text, iirc?19:25
gla55then holding down19:25
mgedminif you double-click and start dragging with the second click, you can (sometimes) select text19:25
mgedminit feels like an unintended feature (aka bug)19:26
trevarthanmgeadmin: thanks. That worked.19:27
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sandmanHow much power does bluetooth require? As much or more than wifi?19:44
keesji would guess less19:44
mgedminabout the same when transmitting data, but less when idle19:44
mgedminsource: some email on one of the maemo mailing lists19:45
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keesjI have the feeling that my n800 used keep active when i was typing on my bt keyboard. but now it does not work19:46
kulvesandman: I have understood that bluetooth takes much less that wlan. But if the mailing list says something different, they maybe you should believe it..19:50
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LeandroAlhi.. I'm trying to create an link application on the maemo website downloads. The manual ( tell me to login, click on the application link and then, in the context menu, Page, Create Maemo Application. But I can't see the link "Application". Is there a special trick?20:22
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kulveclick a category in the "application cloud"20:28
kulvei.e. "downloads" and then the category you want your app20:29
kulvethe docs are wrong on that point. I spent quite a while figuring it out..20:29
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MoRpHeUzhhmmm...maemo stores wireless's passwords in plain text =(20:41
MoRpHeUzas well gizmo..20:41
MoRpHeUzif someone steal your device, maybe some of your networks can be compromised...(dont know other kind of passwds that are stored in plain text)20:42
`0660isn't it the default in firefox to save passwords in plain text?20:44
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MoRpHeUz`0660: yeah...20:48
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GuySofthi all, i have a quiestion: does anyone here have expriance with astonomomical applications on the maemo?21:27
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GuySoftanobody here at all?21:34
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X-FadeGuySoft: Maybe this is something you like?
GuySoftX-Fade: i saw that one on the net, but its a little basic, there are palmos applications with more functionality. would kstars load on maemo, ofr example?21:39
GuySofti know its a lot to ask :">21:39
X-FadeNo, you would have to port it to GTK first ;)21:40
GuySoftno qt applications?21:40
X-FadeNot if you port the complete qt stack to maemo first ;)21:40
X-FadeThe devices have limited memory, using GTK and qt at the same time will not leave you much to run an application.21:41
bipolarI'm waiting for a good kde port for the n800. Thats the best option for me21:42
X-Fadebipolar: Well I think qt is doable. Don't count on KDE..21:42
GuySoftsay then, what about firefox? does that run?21:42
X-FadeGuySoft: No, but minimo does..21:42
bipolarX-Fade: it's already been done, just not packaged21:43
X-Fadebipolar: Sure, but you would have to do more. Make textinput work, connectivity etc etc..21:43
X-FadeThat is not something you do in a spare weekend.21:44
X-FadeNokia has been working on this for about 3 years now. And still they need to do a lot.21:44
bipolarTrue. But kde abstracts enough out that it it shouldn't be a terible job.21:44
X-FadeHehe, you are very optimistic.21:45
bipolarof cource.21:45
X-FadeI think porting a few applications from qt to gtk is much less work. It depends on which programs you want.21:47
GuySoftwhat about emulation palmos applicationS?21:48
GuySoftthere are astronomical apps for palmos21:49
X-FadeOfcourse there is a way around all this. Use a vnc-server to run other applications.21:49
X-FadeBut that requires some knowlegde..21:50
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GuySoftX-Fade: in the middle of the deasert there is no wifi :S21:50
GuySoftonly sand...21:50
X-FadeGuySoft: No need..21:51
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X-FadeSearch for kstars :)21:51
X-FadeIt seems they did run it..21:52
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GuySofti am not thinking of getting a nokia n800 or a sharp zaurus.. and i am trying to compare the software21:53
||cwthe biggest difference is that Sharp doens't release updates, community support only21:56
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unique311does the n800 have SSE3?21:57
GuySoft||cw: how is the support?21:57
X-Fadelol :)21:57
X-Fadeunique311: No it does not. It is an ARM processor.21:58
kulveif you are talking about the instruction set, I think /proc/cpuinfo tells most of them21:58
X-FadeProcessor       : Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 (v6l)21:59
X-FadeBogoMIPS        : 320.3721:59
X-FadeFeatures        : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java21:59
kulveX-Fade: well, xscales have iwmmx, so maybe sse3 wouldn't be totally impossible :)21:59
kulveon some arm prosessor, I mean21:59
X-Fadekulve: Sure, if you pay Intel enough.22:00
kulveintel makes (made?) arm prosessors too..22:00
unique311permission denied for cpuinfo22:00
kulveunique311: cat22:00
unique311as sudo gainroot also22:00
kulvenormal user is fine22:00
dragornthey do, but arm-foo doens't usually have intel instructions, they keep those for the xscale22:00
kulveworks in all linuxes22:00
GuySoftoh, and can i connect a keyboard or mouse from the usb host?22:01
X-FadeGuySoft: That support is experimental, but it seems to work..22:01
unique311k, just upgraded my hackintosh to 10.4.922:02
unique311and wanted it to go on my n800 also..22:02
unique311but i doubt that..22:02
unique311maybe when the iphone comes out they will emulate that quickly....and someone can port the danm thing to maemo22:02
||cwGuySoft: well, Nokia has released 2 updates to the OS and applications since the n800 was released.22:03
||cwfeature updates, not just bug/security fixes22:03
unique3112 updates?22:03
unique311don't remember updating twice..22:04
kulveme neither..22:04
unique3111 update yeah22:04
dragornyeah there were 222:04
dragornone around xmas if I recall, one in march22:04
unique311i got my n800 in march or april22:05
GuySoftX-Fade: how experemantal, can you type?22:05
kulven800 wasn't out until this year22:05
GuySoftare there any other linuxOS based PDAs apart form nokia and sharp?22:05
dragornkulve: Well then soon after.  There WAS an update to what it shipped with, before the big update in march22:05
dragornbecause I brought it home from the store and slapped the new os on it22:05
dragornGuySoft: usb host on the 800 is mighty iffy afaik, and requires a custom kernel.  It's not in mainline yet.22:06
kulvedragorn: maybe your device didn't have the first official release. I think I saw people posting comments that their device had old versiont..22:06
unique311so when is this intel maemo bite off suppose to hit the shelfs...22:06
dragornGuySoft: And requires some cable hacking and often power injection.  The 770 usb host is stable, but definitely requires a cable+power inject, and the 770 is slower22:06
GuySoftdragorn: what about ir keyboards?22:07
dragornGuySoft: great, if there was an IR port on the nokia :P22:08
GuySoftah, there isnt?!22:08
GuySofti thaught it had, its kinda basic for PDAs, isnt it?22:08
dragornit's got bluetooth and 802.1122:08
dragornas far as other devices running linux - i dunno, my nintendo ds does, but I don't think I'd want to use it for prolonged periods of time :P22:10
dragornhas anyone done any dev which would lead to benchmarks of cairo performance on the 800?22:14
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X-Fadedragorn: Cairo 1.4.6 just landed in Sardine.22:14
dragornX-Fade: yeah, any performance metrics?  I know I'm going to have to rewrite some of my app since it's obnoxious even on an overpowred laptop (complex cached patterns make it sad)22:15
X-Fadedragorn: Well, you'd have to benchmark it I guess.22:16
X-FadeLatest performance benchmarks I can find are from Jan 2007.22:16
X-FadeVersion 1.3.10..22:16
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k-s[WORK]anyone had run Oprofile on n800 with success?22:22
k-s[WORK]I get /usr/bin/opcontrol: /usr/bin/opcontrol: 15: cannot open 2: No such file22:22
k-s[WORK]when trying to set --separate=lib22:23
k-s[WORK]or anything else22:23
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GuySoftisnt the usb host a key feature there? i meen it should let you connect anything that runs on linux to the pda, no?22:33
GuySoftisnt that something well needed?22:34
GuySofti meen why but flash memory if you can use a usb drive that you have around?22:34
X-FadeGuySoft: That is why some people are working on it ;)22:34
X-FadeGuySoft: Flash memory is dirt cheap these days..22:34
X-FadeWell, not the 16G ones..22:35
GuySoftis it hard to make a custom kernel there? or is it as simple as it is in normal debian?22:35
k-s[WORK]GuySoft: almost as simple22:35
X-FadeGuySoft: That is the same. You can just compile it and flash it to the device..22:35
k-s[WORK]GuySoft: just need to use flasher to install it, since it doesn't use grub or any other standard bootloader, but "nolo"22:35
GuySoftX-Fade: depends where you live.. i am in a place where palm zire is new..22:35
X-FadeGuySoft: You can even test a kernel without making it permanent..22:35
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GuySoftX-Fade: didnt get you there, whats nolo22:36
X-FadeIt is the bootloader..22:36
X-FadeNokia's own bootloader.22:36
GuySoftis it flexable?22:36
X-FadeYou don't need to know anything about it..22:37
GuySoftfor compastison, i never got macs booting linux..22:37
GuySoftX-Fade: fair inuf22:37
* TimRiker tried to bend it, but the flash chip would probably break.22:37
X-FadeJust use the flasher to flash the kernel and instruct the device to boot it. Also with the flasher..22:37
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GuySoftX-Fade: well ill have to see it if i get it22:38
* TimRiker tried to "just use flasher" but failed. as flasher does not work on debian unstable with 2.6.2022:38
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GuySofti am on 2.6.20 here, were you trying to load 2.6.20, or run the flasher on that system22:39
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TimRikerwould be nice if the bootloader was a usb-serial device so the standard usbserial module would get you console access to the bootloader.22:39
X-FadeTimRiker: Probably you need to fix some usb settings..22:39
X-Fadeudev and all.22:39
TimRikerGuySoft: running the debian 2.6.20 kernel as root with and without the patch on flashtool. neither worked.22:39
TimRikergot udev. and usbfs mounted.22:39
TimRikerflasher sees a new device being added (from watching with strace) but does not see it as a n800.22:40
X-FadeTimRiker: You did mount usbfs like: mount -t usbfs usbfs /proc/bus/usb22:40
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TimRikerX-Fade: debian mounts usbfs by default already.22:40
TimRikerprocbususb on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)22:41
X-FadeTimRiker: And did you try patching the flasher?22:41
TimRiker(that's from mount output)22:41
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TimRikeras I mentioned already, yes. I tried with and without the patch.22:41
X-FadeHmm weird..22:41
X-FadeI don't suppose you posted a bug to bugzilla already? :)22:42
TimRikerhad to reboot into that Other OS and reflash from there.22:42
TimRikerX-Fade: nope. but I'm happy to. /me looks for bugzilla22:42
TimRiker is not exactly the interface I was expecting.22:43
X-FadeIt at least worked for somebody with Debian 4.0..22:43
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TimRikersurely bugzilla should point there, and not at a page with release info, no?22:45
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* TimRiker waits for his login info..22:46
TimRikerX-Fade: running what kernel?22:46
X-FadeIt doesn't say..22:47
GuySoftX-Fade: the nokia doesnt have an irda port? it seems to have it written on the net22:50
X-FadeGuySoft: No it doesn't have one.22:50
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* TimRiker longs for a nokia u-boot port that has usbserial support and flash from mmc/tftp support.23:03
X-FadeTimRiker: Well you can flash from the device :)23:04
TimRikerany idea why the bootloader is a custom usb device when it does not have to be? why not use a standard bootloader with usbserial support?23:04
TimRikerX-Fade: not if the rootfs won't boot you can't.23:04
X-FadeTimRiker: I dual boot from mmc ;)23:05
TimRikerand while I'm at it, the pivot_root scripts are messed. they leave the old initrd mounted, as well as another proc, sys, and tmp. wasted memory there.23:06
TimRikerX-Fade: hmm. I suppose that works as long as the (missnamed) initrd partition (gag) is not corrupt.23:06
X-FadeTimRiker: Yeah, you need to steer clear of that one..23:07
TimRikerI've not tried that yet. Does pivot_root to an mmc still leave all the mess behind instead of cleaning it up?23:07
X-FadeMy mmc image is just a plain copy of the internal one.. So I guess there's nothing different..23:08
TimRikerwhat happens if you open the mmc door? (either back door or flip down on the "external")23:08
TimRikerand how to you choose mmc boot or internal boot?23:09
TimRikerjust looks for /sbin/init on the device?23:10
X-Fadechroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc223:10
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X-Fadeor mmc1..23:11
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TimRikerhmm. what happens if you just take out the card on boot? does it switch to the internal?23:13
X-FadeTimRiker: Horribly crash?23:13
TimRikerand why ext2? does it not include ext3 support? running non-journaled on a battery powered device does not sound like a Good Thing to me.23:14
X-FadeExt3 is also supported.23:14
TimRikerX-Fade: from grokking the script it looks like it at least tries to skip the mmc if there is no /sbin/init23:14
X-FadeBut the journal can wear out certain blocks on the card.23:15
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TimRikernot so.23:15
X-FadeIf wearleveling is busted..23:15
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TimRikerI don't know any current mmc cards that have busted wearleveling.23:15
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TimRikerit will wear your card out "sooner" than ext2. but only about twice as fast.23:16
TimRikerthe much more important issue is to turn off atimes. atimes will wear out your card much much faster.23:16
||cwjournal doens't wear out certain blocks, it wears out all of them23:16
* TimRiker nods at ||cw 23:17
TimRikeragain, ext3 would reduce the life by about half.23:17
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X-FadeYeah, but still the device will probably die long before you killed all blocks on your card.23:18
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||cwdepends on the size of the card and how full it is23:18
TimRikeryou don't have to kill "all blocks" you just need to kill one more than the card has spare. then the whole card goes dead. (at least on all major brands we tested).23:18
TimRikerbut this takes a _long_ time.23:19
X-FadeDoesn't the leveler move used blocks also?23:19
TimRikerX-Fade: yes.23:19
TimRikerthe internal wear leveling has a number of "spare" blocks that get used when an error is detected in a used block.23:20
TimRikeronce the list of spares hits 0, the card is ready to die.23:20
TimRikerwonderful sd/mmc interface provides no api to query the size of the spare pool.23:21
X-Faderoot on mmc is faster also in combination with the patches..23:21
TimRikerI can believe that. no compression on default ext2/323:21
TyborI'm thinking about using an n800 to input text (source code) with stylus and online keyboard to avoid RSI (repetitive stress injuries)... taking for granted that it can be slower (50-100% slower) would it help avoid rsi?23:21
TimRikercourse it depends on what you are doing. if you're reading a very large text file, I'll bet it's slower. :)23:22
X-FadeTimRiker: There are kernel patches to boost mmc performance. They help a lot..23:22
MithrandirTybor: I doubt it'd be a good way to avoid RSI.  I'd rather recommend taking breaks fairly often, to stretch, avoid using the mouse, etc.23:23
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TimRikerX-Fade: cool. I've not gotten into the kernel yet. do we know if the 4 wire interface is actually used?23:23
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TyborMithrandir: so mouse is the main criminal here?23:23
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TimRikerI'd like to see a way to use a bluetooth laptop as a bluetooth keyboard on the n800.23:23
MithrandirTybor: the usual suspect is doing small movements with the mouse, yes.  Some people don't handle keyboards well too, but that's less common.23:24
X-FadeTimRiker: highspeed patch uses MMC_CAP_4_BIT_DATA;23:25
TimRikerX-Fade: yep, just noticed that. nice.23:28
X-FadeIn combination with multiblock writes.. That speeds it up nicely..23:28
TimRikerany idea if any TI OMAP folks have n800's and are looking at any of this work? I'll fire off some emails on this to folks I know. (/me used to be but is no longer)23:29
X-FadeTimRiker: All these patches are already in mainline kernel..23:29
TimRikerah. even better.23:29
TimRikerthere are still places in the UI that insist on scanning the card for files of type x. This is _always_ a bad idea.23:30
X-FadeYou'd better pester them about the MBX and IVA :)23:30
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|tbb|pfff,the battery indicator sucks a lot, 2min before there where 2bars now it says battery is running out23:30
TimRikerheh. I gotta dig into things first before I'll be comfortable pestering. :)23:31
* TimRiker heads to a meeting.23:31
X-FadeWe want our openvg acceleration :)23:31
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X-FadeAlthough Compositing already seems to work for simple things..23:31
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GuySoftX-Fade: is there a way to get an irda port running on an n800? like with a serial port and lirc?23:35
X-FadeGuySoft: Not without a soldering gun I guess.23:37
X-FadeSomebody replaced the fm-radio chip with a gps chip. So, who knows :)23:38
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|tbb|xfading, where did u hear that?23:39
X-Fade|tbb|: I'm trying to find that back.23:40
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GuySoftX-Fade: i can solder, if its really simple.. i am actually connected now with a cantenna i built23:43
dragornheh, soldering/desoldering PCBs is somewhat more difficult23:44
X-FadeHmmm I can't find back that posting..23:44
X-FadeIt was a guy that used the io ports connected to the fm chip for a gps chip..23:44
TimRikerX-Fade: do you get a menu of boot choices? and how do you input your choice? arrows? the script seems to use "read" which implies stdin, which I would not think there would be any keyboard at that stage of the boot?23:44
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TimRikerguess I'll have to try it and see.23:44
X-FadeTimRiker: The arrow keys..23:45
X-FadeIf the mode == ask23:45
dragornX-Fade: makes sense, if you have any sort of gpio at a voltage/sample rate you can do serial with.  nice hack.23:45
Tyboranyone tried dasher in maemo?ù23:45
TimRikerhmm. I must be looking at the wrong script. I was looking at /mnt/initfs/linuxrc23:46
TimRikerGuard][an: using usb host mode, you could add a usb irda dongle. I don't know if usb-host is available on the n800 yet.23:46
X-FadeTimRiker: Experimental patches are available.23:46
* TimRiker whacks tab completion. that was meant for GuySoft 23:47
X-FadeIt has a USB OTG chip too..23:47
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X-FadeSo it should be able to provide some power too23:47
GuySoftTimRiker: however a usb dongle wont run cool stuff like lirc23:48
TimRikerX-Fade: sure would be nice to get a real OTG port and drivers instead of a cpu that has it, but the wrong port and drivers on the device.23:48
GuySoftTimRiker: ah! the irony!23:48
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X-FadeTimRiker: It has a separate OTG chip that is connected?23:48
GuySoftwhy anyting that you want to plug to those PDAs resorts to painful softare and harware complication?23:48
* TimRiker morns the omap device he built at ti, that ti killed. it had both a host and a client port.23:48
TimRikerX-Fade: the cpu has OTG support, but not all the voltage driver support. so there is a bit of support logic needed. the 770 didn't have it, and I expect the 800 does not either.23:49
dragornGuySoft: because you insist on plugging things into it like IR that it doesn't have.  I'll grant you host mode is annoying, but there are plenty of bluetooth keyboards available.23:50
GuySoftdragorn: yes, but they cost :( , is bluetooth less of a pain in the neck?23:51
dragornGuySoft: Than trying to solder stuff onto the PCB just to run a keyboard?  Yeah, i'd say so.23:52
X-FadeThis one is even betterL
GuySoftdragorn: soldering is easy, on to a pcb is the harder part23:52
X-FadeTimRiker: There is this: tps65030 USB-OTG Power Manager 5v 100mA.23:53
dragornand the project is kind of moot without the "on to a pcb" component23:53
GuySoftdragorn: i really dont mind the cable, and bluetooth meends you need to much about with batteries, and other stuff23:54
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TimRikerX-Fade: nice images. shows the lame springless external sd slot really well.23:54
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dragornGuySoft: And you think powering an IR circuit and USB you don't?  Hah.23:55
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TimRikerX-Fade: heh. those images show small dimples in the "extra" connecter next to the battery. looks like they have been used, or at least tried.23:56
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X-FadeTimRiker: I haven't used mine, and the are also there..23:57
X-FadeTimRiker: I think Nokia uses them in the factory too.23:57
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X-FadeCheck yours :)23:58
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