IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-04-28

*** pdz has joined #maemo00:02
*** pdz- has quit IRC00:05
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo00:10
*** pdz-_ has quit IRC00:14
*** jurop89 has quit IRC00:18
PupnikAnybody want to write a sdl module that lets you write keyboard input with a virtual keyboard, that gets captured by the sdl keyboard input handler?00:23
kpelPupnik: sdl as in libsdl ?00:24
kpelthe games library?00:24
Pupniki don't know how to input text with stylus into sdl00:24
* thoughtfix de-idles00:24
kpelso there is no way for sdl to catch the clicks of the stylus?00:25
*** ajturner has quit IRC00:25
kpelcan't you treat the stylus like a mouse?00:25
Pupnikit can get x11 keyboard input (synergy) or keyboard input from bluetooth00:26
kpelso essentialy what you want is to display pictures of keys, read the coordinates of the stylus "clicks" and display the selected characters in another place on the screen00:27
kpelis there no software keyboard in maemo?00:27
kpelPupnik: i played a bit with libsdl and it's not that difficult. sadly, i don't even haev time for my own projects :(00:28
tkothere is, but it's integrated only with gtk, and the protocol is proprietary (though partially reverse engineered already)00:28
*** eniac_petrov has quit IRC00:29
kpelbut i found very helpful. especialy the docwiki:
Pupniktko, there is a problem in that most sdl games will be running full screen, and i don't know if/how the virtual keyboard could pop-up over that window00:29
kpeltko: proprietary as in "made by Nokia"?00:29
tkoPupnik: IM works for gtk apps in fullscreen.. though I don't really know how sdl works here00:30
tkokpel: yes00:30
kpeli suggest you mention to nokia developers forums how much value will be added to the product if they allow you to use their keyboard for more games00:31
Pupnikafaik the virtual keyboard IM resizes the gtk app screen when it pops up00:31
Tak|workI'm not sure there's a good generic way to do it for sdl apps00:31
tkokpel: can't really see the benefit, the sdl games I can recall don't really need text input00:34
tkothough my view is limited00:34
tigert"enter name for high score" :)00:34
tigertbut the maemo games have the gtk launcher frontend00:35
Pupnikbasic question: does the virtual keyboard IM send x11 keystrokes?  or is it at the gtk/hildon level?00:36
Pupnikok then forget it00:36
tkoPupnik: some X protocol.. see the wiki00:36
tkoderf: we only have implementation for gtk, but the protocol is (custom) X00:37
derfYeah, I meant the interaction (e.g., controlling the keyboard) is GTK-only.00:40
derfIt does send real X events.00:41
Pupnik"you need to create a GDK wrapper around your window"00:41
derf  XTestFakeKeyEvent(fk->xdpy, keycode, is_press, CurrentTime);00:41
*** lmoura has quit IRC00:41
tkoPupnik: if you want to use GtkIMContext instead of implementing the protocol yourself00:42
kpelcan't you use the navigation key(joystick, whatever you call it) to write highscores the old way, arcade-style?00:43
Pupnikthanks.  relevant code snippets
kpelyou know, scroll through the alphabet00:43
Pupnikkpel yes i'm thinking that is the simplest way00:44
*** krau has quit IRC00:48
*** pdz- has joined #maemo00:52
*** shackan has joined #maemo00:53
*** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk00:55
*** lsobral has quit IRC00:55
*** etrunko has quit IRC00:57
*** jpetersen has joined #maemo01:02
*** konttori has quit IRC01:02
*** pdz has quit IRC01:02
*** korpios has quit IRC01:16
*** sbaturzio has joined #maemo01:16
*** Tak|work has quit IRC01:26
*** pdz has joined #maemo01:28
*** |tbb| has quit IRC01:32
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC01:33
*** pdz-_ has joined #maemo01:35
*** zumbi has joined #maemo01:36
*** pdz- has quit IRC01:39
*** vivijim has quit IRC01:44
*** pdz has quit IRC01:46
*** zumbi_ has quit IRC01:50
*** andrunko has quit IRC01:51
*** polpak has joined #maemo01:59
*** lele has quit IRC02:03
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo02:07
*** pdz has joined #maemo02:07
*** zwnj has quit IRC02:09
*** zwnj has joined #maemo02:09
*** Pupnik_ has joined #maemo02:10
*** kpel has quit IRC02:12
*** k-s[WORK] has quit IRC02:14
*** pdz-_ has quit IRC02:19
*** jpetersen has quit IRC02:21
*** Pupnik has quit IRC02:22
*** chenca has quit IRC02:23
*** sussman has joined #maemo02:25
*** fer_ has joined #maemo02:27
*** fer_ has quit IRC02:29
*** fer2 has joined #maemo02:30
*** zwnj has quit IRC02:35
*** TimRiker has quit IRC02:36
*** fer2 has quit IRC02:38
*** zwnj has joined #maemo02:41
*** Pupnik_ is now known as Pupnick02:54
Sulisi thought that said Punkstick03:02
Sulisand thought of a punk lipstick03:03
Pupnick"Pupnik" was John F. Kennedy's term for the puppies that Khruschev gave him as a present03:04
*** Pupnick is now known as Pupnik03:04
*** sp3000 has quit IRC03:04
Pupnikbeh tired03:04
Pupniknice to meet you Sulis03:05
Sulis:) you too03:05
sussmanPupnik: I feel dumb.  I can't unpack your .tgz files;  'tar xz' gives errors03:06
Pupniktar xzf03:06
sussmanIt's not gnu tar, i don't think03:06
Pupnikhm i will check03:06
sussmanF is not an option03:07
derfgzip -c -d | tar -xvf file.tgz03:07
sussmanWhich is weird in itself03:07
Pupnikno something is wrong03:07
sussmanlike some weird deficient tar binary03:07
Sulisdoesn't it have a help?03:08
Pupnikthe nokia tar can't decompress them:  file says exult_it2006_0.03_bin.tgz:  gzip compressed data, from Unix, max compression03:08
*** myren__ has joined #maemo03:08
Pupniki just tested the tars on my debian sid box, not on the nokia itself.  thanks for the notice, sussman03:10
sussmanWhy is the nokia tar so ...different?03:15
Sulisit must be from busybox03:15
Suliswhich doesn't provide many different programs but one single binary which has reduced functionalities of many different unix programs03:16
Pupniksussman try the binary now03:16
Pupnikthe data will take a while03:17
Pupnikhmm i get no errors with "tar xzvf exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz" on nokia or pc03:19
*** myren_ has quit IRC03:20
Pupnikthe data from the website also extracts without errors here on it2006 / busybox03:21
*** greentux has quit IRC03:22
*** greentux has joined #maemo03:23
*** sussman has quit IRC03:24
*** sussman_ has joined #maemo03:25
sussman_sorry, Pupnik , can you post the URL again?03:25
*** pdz- has joined #maemo03:26
sussman_I'm trying to operate on my n800 by ssh'ing into it from a big computer03:26
*** yerga has joined #maemo03:26
sussman_I get the ssh prompt, but can't figure out which user to login as03:26
sussman_'user'?  'root'?03:27
sussman_both fail03:27
*** sussman_ is now known as sussman03:27
Pupnikwhat happens when you enter "root" as the user?03:27
sussmanit asks for password03:27
sussmanI haven't set any root password though03:27
sussmanand empty password fails03:27
Pupnikthere is a default root password03:27
Pupnik"rootme" i think03:28
sussmanholy cow03:28
sussmanit worked03:28
Sulisthat it is03:28
*** unique311 has joined #maemo03:28
Pupnikgood evening unique31103:28
Suliswithout this irc channel i'd have never known thta either03:28
sussmandangit, no 'wget' on nokia03:29
unique311whats up Pupnik03:29
Sulisthere is a wget that you can install03:29
unique311hello everyone03:29
unique311Pupnik found a dgen, generator, and a couple of other stuff that needs your technical emu knowledge to compile..lol03:30
sussmanhm, apparently not in my sources.list03:30
Pupniki saw your message but i had gone to bed.03:30
Sulissussman, search on the maemo site03:31
Sulisi hope it has a .install there03:31
unique311i did basiliskII 0.9 but the roms are giving me illegal instructions errors03:31
unique311tried compiling 1.0 but it would not because of this SIGSEV error..03:32
sussmanPupnik: got the new tarball dowloaded... what command do you recommend i use to unpack it?  considering I have the weak tar?03:34
Pupniktar xzvf filename03:34
Pupnikthat works here03:34
sussmanit worked03:35
sussmando I need to fetch a new .data.tgz?03:35
*** yerga has quit IRC03:35
sussmanor music?03:35
Pupnikremember to unpack the music into the games/exult dir03:35
sussmanI have no bt keyboard.  not till monday, at least.03:36
Pupnikyou can play without03:36
sussmanthe instructions say I need one to start a game.03:36
Pupnikwell no, you need one to type in an avatar name03:36
sussmanand I can skip that?03:36
Pupnikbut oh ... crap hold a sec03:37
*** pdz has quit IRC03:37
Pupniki could have sworn i did it once03:37
Pupnikif you want, you can set up synergy on the nokia and on your computer03:37
Pupnikthen you can control the nokia with your desktop keyboard and mouse03:38
sussmanyou have *got* to be kidding me.  'tar xvfz blah' gives error, but 'tar xzvf blah' works??03:38
sussmanstupid busybox03:38
sussman*synergy* works on nokia?03:38
sussmanI use that all the time03:38
sussman# tar xzvf ../exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz03:39
sussmantar: inflate error 103:39
sussmantar: Short header03:39
sussman-rwxr-xr-x    1 user     root     16306826 Apr 27 12:22 exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz03:39
Pupnikthat's not good03:40
Pupnikthe size is correct03:40
sussmanI am your humble guineapig03:41
Pupnikwell lets compare checksums / md5sums03:42
Pupnik8f842cb70ef22e29eb6215e6e3c53fe9  exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz03:42
Pupnikbut i don't have md5sum available for the nokia03:42
Pupnikso that's the sum of the package on my pc, which unpacks fine03:42
Pupnikif you have 'md5sum' on the nokia, run md5sum exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz03:43
Suliswhat is exult anyway?03:43
Pupnikotherwise, wget the file to your pc and md5sum it there03:43
sussmanno md5sum03:43
sussmanoop, brb, SIGBABy03:43
Pupnikthen tar xzvf exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz on the pc03:43
Sulisoh, cool03:45
Sulisi don't have Ultima VII though, so i guess i can't use it03:46
sussmanso um03:47
sussmanI should have said SIGCHILD.  :-)03:47
Pupniksussman, untar the data on your pc03:47
sussmanlemme scp to my mac, hold on03:47
Pupniksussman, if your wlan is giving you errors, it might be better to redownload from the http03:48
sussmanerrors?  not that I know of03:49
*** myren_ has joined #maemo03:49
Pupnikthis is disturbing though, maybe i should just zip them03:49
sussmanMD5 (exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz) = f086be24848554254736d5b6e54ac81903:50
sussmanwhat the03:50
sussmanbut the file size was identical??03:50
sussmanlemme redownload it03:50
sussmanredownloading to mac, then scp'ing to nokia03:52
sussmanyikes, you should put your files on a real server.  this looks like a home dsl connection or something.  only 15k/sec dowload03:54
sussmanit's gonna take 30 mins03:55
sussmanah well03:55
Pupnikthey are normally fast03:55
sussmanmeanwhile, I'm working on getting my python z-machine running on nokia03:55
sussmanI wonder how complete the python is on nokia03:55
sussmangfrotz works fine, but I want an all-python interpreter, not C03:56
sussmanthen I can run it on the OLPC too.  :-)03:56
sussmanjust think... text adventures for millions of kids03:57
*** muts has joined #maemo03:57
Pupniki learned how to type with infocom games03:57
Pupnikwell type faster03:57
mutshi, quick question if i may03:57
mutsgot a n800, trying to get maemo on it..getting stuck at 1st base, getting root03:58
mutsi update the repositiries but the update never finishes03:58
mutsstuck on 10kb03:58
mutsand internet conectivity is ok03:58
mutsany idea ?03:59
sussmanPupnik: try writing some new ones!  inform7 is an amazing language, and it compiles to z-machine03:59
sussmanPupnik: yeah, infocom games were my childhood too03:59
Pupnikmuts, i can only guess that there is a problem with the servers or the intarweb03:59
Pupniki'm seeing slow transfers now too03:59
mutsthat's the one i'm trying04:00
*** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo04:00
Pupniksussman: any favorites?  mine was A Mind Forever Voyaging04:00
mutsPupnik, is that a relevant howto ? anything newer ?04:00
*** myren__ has quit IRC04:00
mutsi develop backtrack, and am excited at the prospect of making a pentest distro for this cute thing04:01
Pupnikmuts: that's the newest best way04:01
mutswill try harder04:01
Pupniknice, i use backtrack04:01
mutsthanks :)04:01
mutsthen perhaps i will be able to pick your brain occasionally, to help better my learning curve ?04:02
Pupnikbacktrack taught me about a lot of neat tools.  But a number of them don't run out of the box04:02
Pupnikmuts sure i have time04:02
*** kb7sqi has quit IRC04:03
mutsPupnik, i even tried deleting the existing repositories04:03
mutsbut cant delete the default04:03
mutsnow, there's only a default reposityu (nokia one)04:03
mutswhich times out04:03
mutsexcuse my typing...jetlagged at passed my beddtime04:03
Pupnikmuts, that's the recommended procedure.  you can also install ssh and afaik ssh right into the device with root and password 'rootme'04:05
Pupniksussman: how is the download going?04:05
sussmanMD5 (/Users/sussman/Desktop/exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz) = 8f842cb70ef22e29eb6215e6e3c53fe904:06
sussmanscp'ing to nokia04:06
Sulishmm, i've just extracted exult on my n800 with no problems04:07
sussmanthe n800 must have 802.11g, it's copying at 1meg/min04:07
sussmaner 1MB/sec04:07
sussmanSulis: yeah, I must have had some corruption04:07
sussmanmy n800 successfully extracted the data, woot.04:08
sussmanredownloading music and blackgate.04:15
*** X-Fade has quit IRC04:15
mutsPupnik, stuck on 10k for 20 mins04:16
mutscould it be a pasv FTP thing ?04:17
Pupnikthe ISP sent me a letter that they were doing upgrades on their phone system04:18
Pupnikperhaps they are having problems with the hosting as well04:18
Pupnikoh sorry muts, you mean the maemo update04:18
mutsPupnik, i've deleted all repositories but the default nokia one04:19
mutsand that also won't update04:19
unique311those windows must be small04:20
Pupnikmuts, is your wlan connection strong?04:21
Pupnikthe repos show as http in sources.list04:22
mutsPupnik, yes, internet on n800 is good...brosing and stuff04:23
sussmanPupnik: AMFV was perhaps my favorite!04:25
Pupnikalso it felt appropriate to talk to Dr. Perelman with the limited language available through the parse04:35
Pupnikr... and being able to monitor the different rooms via cameras04:36
Pupnikjust incredible04:36
*** luizirber has quit IRC04:39
sussmansigh, my 2GB SD card is flaking out again04:39
sussmanI've created the entire 'games' directory, perfectly arranged, on my mac04:40
sussman70MB or so04:40
sussmanI'm trying to copy it whole to my SD card, but my SD card is flaking out, trying to reformat it...04:40
sussmanthis is crazy.  the nokia sees the card when I put it in, but it's unusable, when I tell the file manager to format it, it says 'corrupted card' and then pretends it doesn't exist04:50
sussmanon the mac, I can barely get Disk Utility to even see it04:50
sussmanwhen it does see it, it hangs forever trynig to format it04:50
Pupnik:/  i'd try a reboot actually.  if not, you can install exult anywhere, just have to change the path settings in .exult.cfg04:51
sussmanI rebooted the nokia already04:52
sussmanit reboots, an File Manager shows the 'external card' greyed out.  I put the external card in, and it shows it available.04:52
sussmanerrors ensue.04:52
sussmanI don't want to fill 70MB of my internal 128MB card with exult... it should live on the 2GB card04:53
Pupnikyes of course04:54
sussmanok, after removing it and reinserting it many times on the mac, disk-utility sees it briefly, and it's trying to format it now04:55
sussmanit seems to hang forever during the partitioning step.04:55
sussmanhonestly, the card must be dead.  hardware failure.04:55
sussmanok, gotta run off to a banjo gig.  Hopefully I'll get this running over the weekend04:56
Pupnikok cheers, good luck with the sd, and send it back if it's defective04:57
PupnikIf we estimate bus performance on Nokia 770, it is ~55MB/s and is more than04:57
sussmanback to google.  :-)04:57
Pupnikenough to display 800x480 sized video frames with 30 fps.04:57
sussman(it came from my employer)04:58
*** fcarvalho has quit IRC04:58
*** myren__ has joined #maemo05:03
*** tko has quit IRC05:08
*** Zword is now known as Zword_AFK05:11
*** shackan has quit IRC05:11
*** tko has joined #maemo05:12
*** myren_ has quit IRC05:15
*** myren_ has joined #maemo05:16
*** Yamazaki-kun has quit IRC05:28
*** myren__ has quit IRC05:28
*** lexiyntax has joined #maemo05:33
*** _follower_ has quit IRC05:34
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo05:37
*** pdz has joined #maemo05:41
*** kb7sqi has joined #maemo05:42
*** pdz- has quit IRC05:49
*** dolske has quit IRC05:55
*** __follower__ has joined #maemo05:55
*** dieguito has joined #maemo05:56
*** _follower_ has quit IRC05:58
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo06:04
*** kb7sqi has quit IRC06:13
*** __shawn has joined #maemo06:15
*** fer2 has joined #maemo06:15
*** __follower__ has quit IRC06:16
*** fer2 has quit IRC06:16
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC06:17
*** fuelfive has quit IRC06:23
Pupnikcool: cat /sys/devices/platform/dsp/loadinfo06:24
*** jacques has joined #maemo06:31
*** __shawn has quit IRC06:36
*** __shawn has joined #maemo06:37
*** unique311 has quit IRC06:39
*** zwnj has quit IRC06:51
*** kb7sqi has joined #maemo07:03
*** pdz- has joined #maemo07:03
Pupniki see there is a fix for Xomap which may solve Xsp pixel doubling problems.
PupnikHowever, i do not see that it has been applied to IT2006 Xomap server.  I have xserver-xomap 6.6.3-28 (gregale) and my SDL applications still flicker to 1x scaling07:07
*** dolske has joined #maemo07:08
PupnikIs it correct that the Xsp/Xomap damage bugfix will not be applied to IT2006 due to 'Nokia dropping support for 770'?07:09
PupnikAnd if this is true, is it possible to compile a fixed Xomap server for gregale/it2006 and allow user to upgrade via application manager / dpkg?07:10
*** pdz has quit IRC07:16
*** lexiyntax has quit IRC07:16
*** rkaway has quit IRC07:18
*** rkaway has joined #maemo07:29
*** bhima has joined #maemo08:08
*** sussman has quit IRC08:13
*** mikemorrison has joined #maemo08:27
*** bhima is now known as bhima|sleep08:28
*** Pio has joined #maemo08:34
*** __shawn has quit IRC08:36
*** __shawn has joined #maemo08:46
*** __shawn has quit IRC08:59
*** booiiing has quit IRC09:12
*** booiiing has joined #maemo09:15
*** KevinVerma has quit IRC09:26
*** KevinVerma has joined #Maemo09:38
*** jaebird has quit IRC09:39
*** sabotage_afk has quit IRC10:01
*** sabotage_afk has joined #maemo10:01
*** dieguito has quit IRC10:03
*** zwnj has joined #maemo10:12
*** ssvb has joined #maemo10:23
ssvbhi Pupnik10:28
*** behdad has joined #maemo10:29
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo10:32
*** Guard][an has joined #maemo10:40
*** __shawn has joined #maemo10:47
*** maemo has joined #maemo10:50
*** _follower_ has quit IRC10:53
Pupnikssvb i've just read through just about everything you've posted re: mplayer, dsp, colorspace conversion10:58
Pupnikthey should make clones of you :)10:59
keesjssvb rulez bit time!11:02
Pupnikheh but seriously, it was a very enlightening discussion to follow11:03
keesjPupnik: I really agree with you11:03
keesjbut I am not 100% for cloning11:04
*** koen has quit IRC11:10
Pupnikfor example, some tests on the forums by ssvb showed me that you have to be careful when feeding audio to gstreamer, otherwise you can waste cpu11:10
*** maemo has quit IRC11:10
Pupnikso it turns out my stupid way (fork a gstreamer-tool process) wasn't so bad11:11
*** pleemans has joined #maemo11:11
*** zwnj has left #maemo11:13
Pupnik"if you don't know what you're doing, get as much done as you can, doing as little as possible"11:14
*** jpetersen has joined #maemo11:26
*** konttori has joined #maemo11:30
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo11:36
keesjPupnik sometime it's also "if you know what you are doing"11:36
keesjor "if you think you have a brilliant idea, somebody else must already have implemented it"11:37
keesj^[[1mChecking for required M4 macros...11:39
keesj^[[m^O  libtool.m4 not found11:39
keesjI have this message in sbox it200711:40
Pupnikyeah happens a lot11:40
Pupnikre: ideas11:40
Pupnikwhat package?11:40
keesjI hava a few a week , the one that are not implemented are a) to difficult for me or b) not that brilliant11:41
Pupniki see libtool.m4 in bmp, digikam and dosemu11:41
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo11:41
Pupnikhello |tbb|11:42
keesjthis is where I find it
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo11:43
keesjto me it looks like it is part of opt/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/arch_tools/11:43
keesjit2006 also has a libtool.m411:43
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo11:44
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo11:46
*** djcb has joined #maemo11:50
|tbb|hi all11:50
Pupnikyeah well i don't know anything about it11:50
Pupnikgonna nap...11:51
*** Pupnik is now known as Pupnik_zZz11:51
*** konttori has quit IRC11:53
*** konttori_ has quit IRC12:05
*** d_kov has joined #maemo12:08
tkokeesj: IIRC that's unique problem with, there's a bug in bugzilla12:09
keesjtko I copied the files from the it2006 and it's looking better.12:12
keesjI was trying to solve problem in a to "nice" way . In this case hacking was more rewarding12:13
*** obergix[work] has joined #maemo12:15
*** KevinVerma has quit IRC12:19
*** KevinVerma has joined #Maemo12:20
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo12:26
AD-N770good morning12:26
*** klausade has left #maemo12:28
*** __shawn has quit IRC12:46
*** shackan has joined #maemo12:51
*** KevinVerma has quit IRC12:54
*** |tbb|_ has joined #maemo12:57
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC13:05
*** _follower_ has quit IRC13:06
*** |tbb| has quit IRC13:09
*** |tbb|_ has quit IRC13:15
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo13:21
*** pleemans has quit IRC13:24
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo13:28
maddlermorning all...13:29
*** jku_ has joined #maemo13:31
*** b0unc3_ is now known as b0unc313:38
*** krau has joined #maemo13:45
*** jku__ has quit IRC13:47
*** pleemans has joined #maemo13:56
*** fuelfive has joined #maemo14:00
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo14:10
*** _follower_ has quit IRC14:12
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo14:19
*** slomo has quit IRC14:19
*** pleemans has quit IRC14:21
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo14:24
*** vivijim has joined #maemo14:32
*** sussman has joined #maemo14:34
*** ssvb has quit IRC14:49
*** tigert has quit IRC14:51
*** tigert has joined #maemo14:51
*** _follower_ has quit IRC14:54
*** spect has quit IRC14:55
*** spect has joined #maemo15:02
*** jonty has joined #maemo15:08
*** d_kov has quit IRC15:21
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo15:21
*** sbaturzio has joined #maemo15:25
*** kpel has joined #maemo15:38
kpelhi all15:38
tko"Unlimited CD burning of songs (burn any playlist up to 7 times)"15:43
tkointeresting interpretation for "unlimited"15:43
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC15:45
kpelheh... marketing droids15:45
*** koen has joined #maemo15:49
*** _follower_ has quit IRC15:49
*** koen has quit IRC16:00
*** koen has joined #maemo16:15
*** ni3w4zn3 has joined #maemo16:16
*** koen has quit IRC16:18
*** fcarvalho has joined #maemo16:22
*** konttori has joined #maemo16:27
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo16:28
*** luizirber has joined #maemo16:29
*** muts has quit IRC16:38
*** konttori has quit IRC16:46
*** jonty has quit IRC16:52
*** greentux has quit IRC16:54
*** yerga has joined #maemo16:58
*** konttori_ has quit IRC17:15
Sulisi saw a post to a forum yesterday that was advising people not to install any third party apps to their brand new n80017:18
*** konttori has joined #maemo17:21
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo17:22
JaffaSulis: which forum?17:24
Sulishmm, that i can't actually remember now, i just dismissed it as being silly17:25
*** Zword_AFK is now known as Zword17:39
*** Sulis has quit IRC17:39
*** konttori has quit IRC17:39
*** slomo_ has quit IRC17:40
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo17:40
*** konttori_ has quit IRC17:47
*** mat has quit IRC17:56
sussmanthat sounds pretty absurd18:02
sussmanconsidering nokia is deliberately *trying* to get geeks to write third party apps18:02
bhima|sleepPackaging systems that threaten your system stability when you install a simple, straightforward app are silly.18:10
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo18:11
derfbhima|sleep: The packaging system runs as root and can replace any file on the system. Obviously Nokia can't guarantee the safety of your device from someone who's malicious.18:16
bhima|sleepderf: Right. And, IMHO, that's silly.18:17
*** bhima|sleep is now known as bhima18:18
derfWelcome to the world of software.18:18
dpbwell, you could make a package manager that wouldn't do that..18:19
dpbthere's an LFS hint somewhere that you'd install each package as a different user, then they can't destroy your other packages files..18:19
bhimaEspecially for maemo, it would seem reasonable to have packages that went into single directories. You don't need to install everything in system directories.18:20
*** konttori has joined #maemo18:21
*** ocnarfidW has joined #maemo18:26
*** konttori has quit IRC18:32
*** myren__ has joined #maemo18:37
*** bhima_ has joined #maemo18:38
bhima_ooops. linksys--18:39
bhima_"Especially for maemo, it would seem reasonable to have packages that went into single directories. You don't need to install everything in system directories." is the last I said.18:39
Jaffabhima_: but if you want to modify a system file (e.g. start SSH at root, change root password to allow hacking etc.) then your package manager needs to be able to do anything; otherwise you're in the painful world of /var/install in OS2005.18:40
JaffaNow, the stupid warning - that can go...18:40
bhima_Jaffa: I would support two types of packages, dangerous and safe.18:41
*** myren___ has joined #maemo18:42
*** bhima has quit IRC18:42
maddlerhello all...18:42
Jaffabhima_: but even a "safe" package could use all your CPU, drain your battery or upload all your documents to (unless you have loads of privilege levels, like SELinux or UAC)18:44
bhima_Jaffa: Agreed. I should mention that I also would like to see some movement towards document sandboxing, but I woudln't expect that on something like maemo :)18:45
*** bhima_ is now known as bhima18:46
*** jpetersen has quit IRC18:46
bhimaJaffa: I think being able to know that an install wouldn't brick your device would be good; given the amount of confusion I see about packaging here and there, I think there's also a greater chance of innocent mistakes.18:47
*** myren_ has quit IRC18:49
kpelso working with Nokia on that is out of the question?18:49
bhimare: the unlimited burning, they mean that any track can be burned any number of times, you can burn an infinite number of CDs, but each specific playlist is limited to 7.18:50
bhimaSo you need to re-rip and re-burn to burn more than 7 copies of a CD.18:50
bhimaAs DRM goes, it's not that bad. But it's still evil.18:51
*** k-s has joined #maemo18:53
Jaffabhima: It's worth noting that it's very unlikely any deb for Maemo could truly brick either the 770 or N800 - they'll almost always be recoverable using the flasher (at the expense of user data)18:53
*** myren__ has quit IRC18:54
bhimaJaffa: True. It just seems like it wouldn't be that hard to specify per-app subdirectories for normal apps that appear in the system menus, reducing the risk of even that for most apps.18:55
JaffaIndeed. But the device isn't geared for that: when an RSS feed can result in having to reflash the device and lose user data, it's not something you're going to want to trust :-(18:56
bhimaWhich RSS feed can do that?18:58
*** RpJ has joined #maemo18:58
JaffaIf you had the RSS home applet enabled in OS 2007 v1/2 and subscribed to the feed (or some others too IIRC), it would crash the applet at start, which crashed the desktop, which caused the device to reboot. But it did this every time, resulting in an infinite reboot which you could only escape with a reflash (or disabling the watchdogs)18:59
*** ocnarfidW has quit IRC19:01
bhimaOoh. That's not good.19:01
*** Yamazaki-kun has joined #maemo19:14
Pupnik_zZzthere are solutions for more fine-grained access control for linux but that complicates things19:16
Pupnik_zZzthe basic root/user model goes back to 1969 i think19:16
*** lele has joined #maemo19:16
kpelin general, overengineering is a bad idea19:19
*** behdad has quit IRC19:21
*** behdad has joined #maemo19:29
maddlerJaffa: have you ever configured postfix+mysql+SMTP auth?19:30
*** Pupnik_zZz is now known as Pupnik19:41
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC19:44
*** fuelfive has quit IRC19:46
*** sbaturzio has joined #maemo19:48
*** krau has quit IRC20:02
*** behdad has quit IRC20:07
*** Guardian has joined #maemo20:12
*** dpb has quit IRC20:15
*** NickDe has quit IRC20:18
*** qgil has joined #maemo20:20
*** Guard][an has quit IRC20:30
*** greentux has joined #maemo20:32
*** ni3w4zn3 has quit IRC20:39
*** RpJ has quit IRC20:48
*** Rp1 has joined #maemo20:48
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC20:50
*** jaebird has joined #maemo20:52
*** Tahitibob has joined #maemo20:54
*** soleblaze has quit IRC20:57
*** nelson has quit IRC20:58
*** Rp1 has quit IRC20:58
*** k-s has quit IRC21:02
*** greentux has quit IRC21:11
*** greentux has joined #maemo21:14
*** greentux has quit IRC21:17
*** RpJ has joined #maemo21:21
*** konttori has joined #maemo21:21
*** bhima is now known as bhima|gone21:22
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo21:22
*** fuelfive has joined #maemo21:27
*** yerga has quit IRC21:30
*** k-s has joined #maemo21:39
*** konttori has quit IRC21:40
*** djcb has quit IRC21:51
*** jordi has quit IRC21:54
*** sbaturzio has joined #maemo22:02
*** greentux has joined #maemo22:03
*** greentux has quit IRC22:08
*** pleemans has joined #maemo22:16
*** nelson has joined #maemo22:19
PupnikCan not log onto with account.  Known problem?22:32
qgilPupnik: you should be able22:34
Pupniktest says my account exists22:35
qgilPupnik: let's see...22:36
qgilPupnik: hum, now I can't log either apparently22:37
Pupnikgarage login works22:37
qgilPupnik: i don't know myself if they are aware, since they left the sprint stalled for the weekend...22:39
*** KevinVerma has joined #maemo22:40
*** fcarvalho has quit IRC22:40
*** fuelfive has quit IRC22:42
*** user_ has joined #maemo22:52
*** shackan has quit IRC22:52
*** pdz has joined #maemo22:54
maddleroh... qgil... hello, dude...23:00
qgilhi maddler23:00
maddlerwas working on a better (I hope) flyer... :)23:01
*** user_ has left #maemo23:02
*** user_ has joined #maemo23:02
user_hi all,23:06
*** pdz- has quit IRC23:07
user_is exists a documentation about LED api programming?23:07
*** soleblaze has joined #maemo23:08
user_I write a plugin for claws-mail and I want to notify new message with led.23:10
timelyxit's just a dbus message iirc23:12
timelyxnot very complicated or special23:12
timelyxgood way to kill my battery23:12
maddleruser_: wait...23:12
maddlerhmm... can't find it...23:15
*** user_ is now known as jlbrd23:16
*** luizirber has quit IRC23:17
maddleroh... jlbrd! my hero!23:17
jlbrdoh.... just a little port23:18
jlbrdbut CM work fine23:18
*** pdz- has joined #maemo23:19
jlbrdmy plugin for CM can show an information banner,23:19
maddlerwell... maybe it was little... but it was the port I was missing the more! :D23:19
maddlernow the only thing I'm missing is a good contact manager :D23:20
jlbrdplay a wav, and i want to play with led23:20
maddlernice... nice... sounds interesting...23:20
maddlerI'm using CM a _lot_ lately...23:20
*** soleblaze has quit IRC23:21
* KevinVerma stopped expecting n800 to beat palm devices for productivity and pim23:21
*** soleblaze has joined #maemo23:21
maddlerspending a lot of time out of my office... and being able to manage my mails in such a great way helps a lot!23:21
maddlerKevinVerma: true... sad but true...23:21
PupnikKevinVerma: do you have a commercial project proposal?23:21
maddlerKevinVerma: Agendus was the best PIM I ever tried...23:22
maddler20E well spent...23:22
KevinVermacomercial ? why'd i spent 400usd in hopes of freedom then23:22
Pupnikthen you are free to write any app you want :023:23
KevinVermathanks my life is not so free23:23
KevinVermai contribute other way alot everyday23:23
maddlerhehehe... Pupnik I would... but my coding is worst than my german... :D23:23
Pupnikis there commercial software for 770/800?23:24
KevinVermacoder ? i am not even a plumber sorry23:24
maddlerKevinVerma: :D23:24
KevinVermai am just a linux tech guy ;)23:25
KevinVermamy  job is to ensure comercial support works ;)23:25
Pupniktablets need more units sold, i think23:25
Pupnikalso users willing to pay for software23:26
maddlerPupnik: yep... but many potential buyers keep comparing them with "standard" PDAs23:26
KevinVerman800 is my friend after work in my bed as i lay my ass to rest every night lol23:26
maddlerand PIMs are one of most important apps...23:27
maddlerKevinVerma: mine as well...23:27
maddlersurf the web... e mail...23:28
maddlerwatch movies...23:28
maddlerbut... I miss a _good_ PIM! :)23:28
KevinVermaweb readability is better then palm's23:28
KevinVermabut mostly  with google/xhtml23:28
KevinVermai swear we need opera mini, better23:28
PupnikKevinVerma: what is the best pim you have used?23:28
*** soleblaze has quit IRC23:28
*** Yamazaki-kun has quit IRC23:28
qgilis the pim functionality you expect available in linux?23:28
*** soleblaze has joined #maemo23:28
KevinVermapalm buit in's were super enough23:28
KevinVermaon the device otherwise jpilot or evo23:28
KevinVermakdepim is superdupper23:29
KevinVermayeah we have nice pim's for linux i have been satisfied23:29
maddleryup... a lot of PIM around...23:30
Pupnikkdepim can compare to the good commercial pims?23:30
KevinVermabut then, after quiting using palm life broke23:30
Pupnikthen a port is possible23:30
KevinVermagoggle cl2 never came up with todo''s  ;p23:30
*** pdz has quit IRC23:31
KevinVermat rue kdepim rocks23:31
*** tomo1234 has joined #maemo23:31
*** dpb has joined #maemo23:32
qgilthe GPE solutions doesn't make you happy?23:32
osfameronnot me23:32
c0ffeeme neither23:32
c0ffeei want notes23:32
osfamerongpe seems very lightweight23:32
*** tomo1234 has left #maemo23:32
qgilok, then probably:23:32
qgilif the interest were higher and/or the complexity were lower someone would have come up woith a port already23:32
qgilthere is probably work ongoing23:32
KevinVermagpe ? or any thing on n800 is  so in-exportable or syncable23:32
KevinVermawe hardly have a good password manager23:33
KevinVermano alternative browser that works23:33
qgildoes the alternative browser have anything to do woith PIM?  :)23:33
KevinVermatalks of productivity apps on n800 starts to boil me bit23:34
KevinVermasome what yes23:34
KevinVermacan't even use google calendar or notes better23:35
maddlerbtw... I'm happier with my N800 than what I was with all of my previous Palms...23:35
qgilok, sorry for playing around with words23:35
maddler770 was my 1st !Palm after about 10 years...23:35
qgilthe thing is: Nokia is able to produce a PC suite to sync Nseries phones with Windows PCs relatively well23:36
KevinVermai was desperate otherwise palm had lots of well working oss apps23:36
qgilI don't know how well you consider the smartphones have covered the PIM functionality, but this is another element to consider23:36
maddlerKevinVerma: Palm and IT are two completely different classes of devices...23:36
KevinVermajust compare plucker and fbreader, hell of a difference23:36
maddlerqgil: in fact I use my N80/E61 PIM functionalities... :D23:37
qgilthe tablets are a more recent product, use a different platform (not Symbian) and are supposed to sync with not-only-Windows23:37
qgilthe equation is a bit more complex, and this is one reason why the whole PIM think isn't there today23:38
KevinVermaagain, was desperate for a true linux device, otherwise nokia has not been fair to exclude gsm/cdma modem23:38
KevinVermanot in phones but i hope you can imagine wifi does not go everywhere23:38
qgilthe afct that the "Intenet Tablets" are not considered "Personal Assistants", the public targeted is not fully the same and the own PIM concept is evolving play a very important role as well23:38
inzKevin, I prefer a small phone23:38
*** RpJ has quit IRC23:39
KevinVermadon't buy into Ari's excuse of IT vs pim/phone23:39
KevinVermaat-least not so easily, i think they have a comercial reason behind it23:40
maddlerqgil: true... true... but nevertless I would be happier if I had a good PIM :)23:40
qgilI'm talking about Ari's blog, I'm more in the lines of
KevinVermato hold the scope till they have a stable suite23:41
maddlerKevinVerma: personally, I've always preferred using two separate devices...23:41
KevinVermaeven i do but...23:41
qgilKevinVerma: Nokia targets products to user groups - and the tablets are not primarily targeted currently to the user groups that find important the PIM functionality, that's all23:41
KevinVermawifi does not go everywhere23:41
qgilsaid that, products, targeted audiences and market needs may chage over time23:41
maddlerlet's lobby!!! :D23:42
*** pdz has joined #maemo23:42
qgilKevinVerma: the wifi thing is another issue23:42
KevinVermathats what i said it will chage23:42
KevinVermathis time they deliberatly did not let it change23:43
KevinVermaa phone as an AP, two devices, two chargers, phone busy when online23:43
*** corwin__ has joined #maemo23:44
*** corwin__ is now known as corwin23:44
KevinVermai don't even need phone'' i just need to be online on cdma23:44
*** corwin is now known as corwin__23:44
maddlerbusy when online?23:44
KevinVermacountry wide 3g flat fee plan23:44
maddlerKevinVerma: but while on 3g... your phone can still get calls...23:45
*** RpJ has joined #maemo23:45
KevinVermai don't of outside india or middle-east but when you are using data voice calling is not possible23:45
qgilKevinVerma: where do you live?23:46
KevinVermapresently india23:46
qgilmdk joins, time for me to sleep  ;)23:47
osfameroneven in uk and italy data connections pause during voice call23:48
KevinVermafunny, but does someome misses a hand strap for n800/770 ?23:48
qgilif the tablet would be also a phone that would change?23:48
osfameronthey /often/ resume after, but tbh i find it flakey...23:49
qgilanyway, if find this topic even less interesting than the pim one - and I'm falling asleep  :)23:49
maddlerosfameron: I'll try it tomorrow... (.it here)23:49
KevinVermaas i tried to mean gsm/cdma is a better option for continues online on go23:49
osfameronmaddler: me too right now, on TIM23:50
qgilthe good thing about the pim stuff is that you don't need Nokia to solve the equation23:50
maddlerosfameron: Tre for me...23:50
qgil(I was never interested in a Palm and I'm happy with the tablets) good night!23:50
*** qgil has left #maemo23:50
*** pdz- has quit IRC23:52
osfameronah! i thought about getting a trepackage, but i heard it was a 'walled garden', and work pay for this one so...23:52
*** jlbrd has quit IRC23:52
Pupnikthat is a good phrase, because when people want to do something with a free OS, they frequently are asking for access to another walled garden23:53
Pupnikand they do not understand that it is not the fault of the free OS that it can not cross the wal23:53
Pupnikbut the builder of the wall23:53
*** corwin__ has left #maemo23:54
KevinVermadude don't blame the word free that much23:54
Pupnikcan you re-phrase that?23:55
KevinVermai believe just a modem would get more developers as well23:55
KevinVermaand then help towards better applications  could have been fast23:56
KevinVerma they could not evwn imagine a easy to plug in serial port acessory23:57
*** obergix[work] has quit IRC23:58
KevinVermaand they dream of easy acess to developer help23:58
*** ajturner has joined #maemo23:59
KevinVermathis is just a push the button test, like in lost tv series23:59
KevinVermaa long term product suit strategy23:59
*** ajturner has quit IRC23:59
*** ajturner has joined #maemo23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!