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| Pupnik | Anybody want to write a sdl module that lets you write keyboard input with a virtual keyboard, that gets captured by the sdl keyboard input handler? | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| kpel | Pupnik: sdl as in libsdl ? | 00:24 |
| kpel | the games library? | 00:24 |
| Pupnik | yeah | 00:24 |
| Pupnik | i don't know how to input text with stylus into sdl | 00:24 |
| * thoughtfix de-idles | 00:24 | |
| kpel | so there is no way for sdl to catch the clicks of the stylus? | 00:25 |
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| kpel | can't you treat the stylus like a mouse? | 00:25 |
| Pupnik | yes | 00:25 |
| Pupnik | it can get x11 keyboard input (synergy) or keyboard input from bluetooth | 00:26 |
| kpel | so essentialy what you want is to display pictures of keys, read the coordinates of the stylus "clicks" and display the selected characters in another place on the screen | 00:27 |
| Pupnik | yes | 00:27 |
| kpel | is there no software keyboard in maemo? | 00:27 |
| kpel | Pupnik: i played a bit with libsdl and it's not that difficult. sadly, i don't even haev time for my own projects :( | 00:28 |
| tko | there is, but it's integrated only with gtk, and the protocol is proprietary (though partially reverse engineered already) | 00:28 |
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| kpel | but i found libsdl.org very helpful. especialy the docwiki: http://www.libsdl.org/cgi/docwiki.cgi/ | 00:29 |
| Pupnik | tko, there is a problem in that most sdl games will be running full screen, and i don't know if/how the virtual keyboard could pop-up over that window | 00:29 |
| kpel | tko: proprietary as in "made by Nokia"? | 00:29 |
| tko | Pupnik: IM works for gtk apps in fullscreen.. though I don't really know how sdl works here | 00:30 |
| tko | kpel: yes | 00:30 |
| kpel | i suggest you mention to nokia developers forums how much value will be added to the product if they allow you to use their keyboard for more games | 00:31 |
| Pupnik | afaik the virtual keyboard IM resizes the gtk app screen when it pops up | 00:31 |
| Tak|work | I'm not sure there's a good generic way to do it for sdl apps | 00:31 |
| tko | kpel: can't really see the benefit, the sdl games I can recall don't really need text input | 00:34 |
| tko | though my view is limited | 00:34 |
| tigert | "enter name for high score" :) | 00:34 |
| tko | exactly | 00:35 |
| tigert | but the maemo games have the gtk launcher frontend | 00:35 |
| Pupnik | basic question: does the virtual keyboard IM send x11 keystrokes? or is it at the gtk/hildon level? | 00:36 |
| derf | GTK/Hildon. | 00:36 |
| Pupnik | ok then forget it | 00:36 |
| tko | Pupnik: some X protocol.. see the wiki | 00:36 |
| tko | derf: we only have implementation for gtk, but the protocol is (custom) X | 00:37 |
| derf | Yeah, I meant the interaction (e.g., controlling the keyboard) is GTK-only. | 00:40 |
| derf | It does send real X events. | 00:41 |
| Pupnik | "you need to create a GDK wrapper around your window" | 00:41 |
| derf | XTestFakeKeyEvent(fk->xdpy, keycode, is_press, CurrentTime); | 00:41 |
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| tko | Pupnik: if you want to use GtkIMContext instead of implementing the protocol yourself | 00:42 |
| kpel | can't you use the navigation key(joystick, whatever you call it) to write highscores the old way, arcade-style? | 00:43 |
| Pupnik | thanks. relevant code snippets https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/browse.php?by=lang&lang=2 | 00:43 |
| kpel | you know, scroll through the alphabet | 00:43 |
| Pupnik | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToInputMethod770 | 00:43 |
| Pupnik | kpel yes i'm thinking that is the simplest way | 00:44 |
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| kpel | goodnight | 02:12 |
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| Sulis | i thought that said Punkstick | 03:02 |
| Sulis | and thought of a punk lipstick | 03:03 |
| Pupnick | "Pupnik" was John F. Kennedy's term for the puppies that Khruschev gave him as a present | 03:04 |
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| Pupnik | beh tired | 03:04 |
| Pupnik | nice to meet you Sulis | 03:05 |
| Sulis | :) you too | 03:05 |
| sussman | Pupnik: I feel dumb. I can't unpack your .tgz files; 'tar xz' gives errors | 03:06 |
| Pupnik | tar xzf | 03:06 |
| sussman | It's not gnu tar, i don't think | 03:06 |
| Pupnik | hm i will check | 03:06 |
| sussman | F is not an option | 03:07 |
| derf | gzip -c -d | tar -xvf file.tgz | 03:07 |
| sussman | Which is weird in itself | 03:07 |
| Pupnik | no something is wrong | 03:07 |
| sussman | like some weird deficient tar binary | 03:07 |
| Sulis | doesn't it have a help? | 03:08 |
| Pupnik | the nokia tar can't decompress them: file says exult_it2006_0.03_bin.tgz: gzip compressed data, from Unix, max compression | 03:08 |
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| sussman | Wha?? | 03:08 |
| sussman | Brb | 03:09 |
| Pupnik | i just tested the tars on my debian sid box, not on the nokia itself. thanks for the notice, sussman | 03:10 |
| sussman | Why is the nokia tar so ...different? | 03:15 |
| Sulis | it must be from busybox | 03:15 |
| Sulis | which doesn't provide many different programs but one single binary which has reduced functionalities of many different unix programs | 03:16 |
| Pupnik | sussman try the binary now | 03:16 |
| Pupnik | http://www.pupnik.de/exult_it2006_0.03_bin.tgz | 03:17 |
| Pupnik | the data will take a while | 03:17 |
| Pupnik | hmm i get no errors with "tar xzvf exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz" on nokia or pc | 03:19 |
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| Pupnik | the data from the website also extracts without errors here on it2006 / busybox | 03:21 |
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| sussman | Brb | 03:24 |
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| sussman_ | back | 03:25 |
| sussman_ | sorry, Pupnik , can you post the URL again? | 03:25 |
| Pupnik | http://www.pupnik.de/exult_it2006_0.03_bin.tgz | 03:25 |
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| sussman_ | I'm trying to operate on my n800 by ssh'ing into it from a big computer | 03:26 |
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| sussman_ | I get the ssh prompt, but can't figure out which user to login as | 03:26 |
| sussman_ | 'user'? 'root'? | 03:27 |
| sussman_ | both fail | 03:27 |
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| Pupnik | what happens when you enter "root" as the user? | 03:27 |
| sussman | it asks for password | 03:27 |
| sussman | I haven't set any root password though | 03:27 |
| sussman | and empty password fails | 03:27 |
| Pupnik | there is a default root password | 03:27 |
| sussman | orly? | 03:28 |
| Pupnik | "rootme" i think | 03:28 |
| sussman | holy cow | 03:28 |
| sussman | it worked | 03:28 |
| sussman | thx | 03:28 |
| Sulis | that it is | 03:28 |
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| Pupnik | good evening unique311 | 03:28 |
| Sulis | without this irc channel i'd have never known thta either | 03:28 |
| sussman | crazy | 03:29 |
| sussman | dangit, no 'wget' on nokia | 03:29 |
| sussman | grrr | 03:29 |
| unique311 | whats up Pupnik | 03:29 |
| Sulis | there is a wget that you can install | 03:29 |
| unique311 | hello everyone | 03:29 |
| unique311 | Pupnik found a dgen, generator, and a couple of other stuff that needs your technical emu knowledge to compile..lol | 03:30 |
| sussman | hm, apparently not in my sources.list | 03:30 |
| Pupnik | i saw your message but i had gone to bed. | 03:30 |
| Sulis | sussman, search on the maemo site | 03:31 |
| Sulis | i hope it has a .install there | 03:31 |
| unique311 | i did basiliskII 0.9 but the roms are giving me illegal instructions errors | 03:31 |
| unique311 | tried compiling 1.0 but it would not because of this SIGSEV error.. | 03:32 |
| sussman | Pupnik: got the new tarball dowloaded... what command do you recommend i use to unpack it? considering I have the weak tar? | 03:34 |
| Pupnik | tar xzvf filename | 03:34 |
| Pupnik | that works here | 03:34 |
| sussman | excellent. | 03:35 |
| sussman | it worked | 03:35 |
| sussman | do I need to fetch a new .data.tgz? | 03:35 |
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| sussman | or music? | 03:35 |
| Pupnik | no | 03:35 |
| Pupnik | remember to unpack the music into the games/exult dir | 03:35 |
| sussman | uhoh | 03:36 |
| sussman | I have no bt keyboard. not till monday, at least. | 03:36 |
| Pupnik | you can play without | 03:36 |
| sussman | the instructions say I need one to start a game. | 03:36 |
| Pupnik | well no, you need one to type in an avatar name | 03:36 |
| sussman | and I can skip that? | 03:36 |
| Pupnik | but oh ... crap hold a sec | 03:37 |
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| Pupnik | i could have sworn i did it once | 03:37 |
| Pupnik | if you want, you can set up synergy on the nokia and on your computer | 03:37 |
| Pupnik | then you can control the nokia with your desktop keyboard and mouse | 03:38 |
| sussman | you have *got* to be kidding me. 'tar xvfz blah' gives error, but 'tar xzvf blah' works?? | 03:38 |
| sussman | stupid busybox | 03:38 |
| sussman | *synergy* works on nokia? | 03:38 |
| sussman | I use that all the time | 03:38 |
| sussman | wow | 03:38 |
| sussman | uhoh | 03:39 |
| sussman | # tar xzvf ../exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz | 03:39 |
| sussman | exult | 03:39 |
| sussman | exult/sqsfxbg.flx | 03:39 |
| sussman | tar: inflate error 1 | 03:39 |
| sussman | tar: Short header | 03:39 |
| sussman | -rwxr-xr-x 1 user root 16306826 Apr 27 12:22 exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz | 03:39 |
| Pupnik | that's not good | 03:40 |
| Pupnik | the size is correct | 03:40 |
| sussman | I am your humble guineapig | 03:41 |
| Pupnik | well lets compare checksums / md5sums | 03:42 |
| Pupnik | 8f842cb70ef22e29eb6215e6e3c53fe9 exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz | 03:42 |
| Pupnik | but i don't have md5sum available for the nokia | 03:42 |
| Pupnik | so that's the sum of the package on my pc, which unpacks fine | 03:42 |
| Pupnik | if you have 'md5sum' on the nokia, run md5sum exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz | 03:43 |
| Sulis | what is exult anyway? | 03:43 |
| Pupnik | otherwise, wget the file to your pc and md5sum it there | 03:43 |
| sussman | no md5sum | 03:43 |
| sussman | oop, brb, SIGBABy | 03:43 |
| Pupnik | then tar xzvf exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz on the pc | 03:43 |
| Pupnik | heh | 03:43 |
| Pupnik | Sulis: http://pupnik.de/exult770.html | 03:43 |
| Sulis | oh, cool | 03:45 |
| Sulis | i don't have Ultima VII though, so i guess i can't use it | 03:46 |
| sussman | so um | 03:47 |
| sussman | I should have said SIGCHILD. :-) | 03:47 |
| Pupnik | sussman, untar the data on your pc | 03:47 |
| sussman | lemme scp to my mac, hold on | 03:47 |
| Pupnik | sussman, if your wlan is giving you errors, it might be better to redownload from the http | 03:48 |
| sussman | errors? not that I know of | 03:49 |
| Pupnik | ok | 03:49 |
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| Pupnik | this is disturbing though, maybe i should just zip them | 03:49 |
| sussman | uhoh | 03:50 |
| sussman | MD5 (exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz) = f086be24848554254736d5b6e54ac819 | 03:50 |
| sussman | what the | 03:50 |
| sussman | but the file size was identical?? | 03:50 |
| sussman | lemme redownload it | 03:50 |
| Pupnik | 16306826 | 03:51 |
| sussman | yep | 03:52 |
| sussman | redownloading to mac, then scp'ing to nokia | 03:52 |
| sussman | yikes, you should put your files on a real server. this looks like a home dsl connection or something. only 15k/sec dowload | 03:54 |
| sussman | it's gonna take 30 mins | 03:55 |
| sussman | ah well | 03:55 |
| Pupnik | they are normally fast | 03:55 |
| sussman | meanwhile, I'm working on getting my python z-machine running on nokia | 03:55 |
| sussman | I wonder how complete the python is on nokia | 03:55 |
| Pupnik | infocom? | 03:55 |
| sussman | yah | 03:56 |
| sussman | http://code.google.com/p/zvm | 03:56 |
| sussman | gfrotz works fine, but I want an all-python interpreter, not C | 03:56 |
| sussman | then I can run it on the OLPC too. :-) | 03:56 |
| sussman | just think... text adventures for millions of kids | 03:57 |
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| Pupnik | i learned how to type with infocom games | 03:57 |
| Pupnik | well type faster | 03:57 |
| muts | hi, quick question if i may | 03:57 |
| muts | got a n800, trying to get maemo on it..getting stuck at 1st base, getting root | 03:58 |
| muts | i update the repositiries but the update never finishes | 03:58 |
| muts | stuck on 10kb | 03:58 |
| muts | forver | 03:58 |
| muts | and internet conectivity is ok | 03:58 |
| muts | any idea ? | 03:59 |
| sussman | Pupnik: try writing some new ones! inform7 is an amazing language, and it compiles to z-machine | 03:59 |
| sussman | Pupnik: yeah, infocom games were my childhood too | 03:59 |
| Pupnik | muts, i can only guess that there is a problem with the servers or the intarweb | 03:59 |
| Pupnik | i'm seeing slow transfers now too | 03:59 |
| muts | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot | 04:00 |
| muts | that's the one i'm trying | 04:00 |
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| Pupnik | sussman: any favorites? mine was A Mind Forever Voyaging | 04:00 |
| muts | Pupnik, is that a relevant howto ? anything newer ? | 04:00 |
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| muts | i develop backtrack, and am excited at the prospect of making a pentest distro for this cute thing | 04:01 |
| Pupnik | muts: that's the newest best way | 04:01 |
| muts | ok | 04:01 |
| muts | will try harder | 04:01 |
| Pupnik | nice, i use backtrack | 04:01 |
| muts | thanks :) | 04:01 |
| muts | then perhaps i will be able to pick your brain occasionally, to help better my learning curve ? | 04:02 |
| muts | ;) | 04:02 |
| Pupnik | backtrack taught me about a lot of neat tools. But a number of them don't run out of the box | 04:02 |
| Pupnik | muts sure i have time | 04:02 |
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| muts | Pupnik, i even tried deleting the existing repositories | 04:03 |
| muts | but cant delete the default | 04:03 |
| muts | now, there's only a default reposityu (nokia one) | 04:03 |
| muts | which times out | 04:03 |
| muts | excuse my typing...jetlagged at passed my beddtime | 04:03 |
| Pupnik | muts, that's the recommended procedure. you can also install ssh and afaik ssh right into the device with root and password 'rootme' | 04:05 |
| Pupnik | sussman: how is the download going? | 04:05 |
| sussman | finished! | 04:06 |
| sussman | ha | 04:06 |
| sussman | MD5 (/Users/sussman/Desktop/exult_it2006_0.03_data.tgz) = 8f842cb70ef22e29eb6215e6e3c53fe9 | 04:06 |
| sussman | woot | 04:06 |
| sussman | scp'ing to nokia | 04:06 |
| Sulis | hmm, i've just extracted exult on my n800 with no problems | 04:07 |
| sussman | the n800 must have 802.11g, it's copying at 1meg/min | 04:07 |
| sussman | er 1MB/sec | 04:07 |
| sussman | Sulis: yeah, I must have had some corruption | 04:07 |
| sussman | my n800 successfully extracted the data, woot. | 04:08 |
| sussman | redownloading music and blackgate. | 04:15 |
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| muts | Pupnik, stuck on 10k for 20 mins | 04:16 |
| muts | 10kb | 04:16 |
| muts | could it be a pasv FTP thing ? | 04:17 |
| Pupnik | the ISP sent me a letter that they were doing upgrades on their phone system | 04:18 |
| Pupnik | perhaps they are having problems with the hosting as well | 04:18 |
| Pupnik | oh sorry muts, you mean the maemo update | 04:18 |
| muts | Pupnik, i've deleted all repositories but the default nokia one | 04:19 |
| muts | and that also won't update | 04:19 |
| muts | wierd | 04:19 |
| unique311 | http://lekernel.lya.eu/opie770.html | 04:19 |
| unique311 | hmmm | 04:20 |
| unique311 | those windows must be small | 04:20 |
| Pupnik | muts, is your wlan connection strong? | 04:21 |
| Pupnik | the repos show as http in sources.list | 04:22 |
| muts | Pupnik, yes, internet on n800 is good...brosing and stuff | 04:23 |
| sussman | Pupnik: AMFV was perhaps my favorite! | 04:25 |
| Pupnik | :) | 04:27 |
| sussman | classic | 04:33 |
| Pupnik | also it felt appropriate to talk to Dr. Perelman with the limited language available through the parse | 04:35 |
| Pupnik | r... and being able to monitor the different rooms via cameras | 04:36 |
| Pupnik | just incredible | 04:36 |
| sussman | yeah | 04:38 |
| sussman | amazing | 04:38 |
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| sussman | sigh, my 2GB SD card is flaking out again | 04:39 |
| sussman | I've created the entire 'games' directory, perfectly arranged, on my mac | 04:40 |
| sussman | 70MB or so | 04:40 |
| sussman | I'm trying to copy it whole to my SD card, but my SD card is flaking out, trying to reformat it... | 04:40 |
| sussman | grmbl | 04:40 |
| sussman | this is crazy. the nokia sees the card when I put it in, but it's unusable, when I tell the file manager to format it, it says 'corrupted card' and then pretends it doesn't exist | 04:50 |
| sussman | on the mac, I can barely get Disk Utility to even see it | 04:50 |
| sussman | when it does see it, it hangs forever trynig to format it | 04:50 |
| Pupnik | :/ i'd try a reboot actually. if not, you can install exult anywhere, just have to change the path settings in .exult.cfg | 04:51 |
| sussman | I rebooted the nokia already | 04:52 |
| sussman | it reboots, an File Manager shows the 'external card' greyed out. I put the external card in, and it shows it available. | 04:52 |
| sussman | errors ensue. | 04:52 |
| sussman | I don't want to fill 70MB of my internal 128MB card with exult... it should live on the 2GB card | 04:53 |
| Pupnik | yes of course | 04:54 |
| sussman | ok, after removing it and reinserting it many times on the mac, disk-utility sees it briefly, and it's trying to format it now | 04:55 |
| sussman | it seems to hang forever during the partitioning step. | 04:55 |
| sussman | honestly, the card must be dead. hardware failure. | 04:55 |
| sussman | ok, gotta run off to a banjo gig. Hopefully I'll get this running over the weekend | 04:56 |
| Pupnik | ok cheers, good luck with the sd, and send it back if it's defective | 04:57 |
| Pupnik | If we estimate bus performance on Nokia 770, it is ~55MB/s and is more than | 04:57 |
| sussman | back to google. :-) | 04:57 |
| Pupnik | enough to display 800x480 sized video frames with 30 fps. | 04:57 |
| sussman | (it came from my employer) | 04:58 |
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| Pupnik | cool: cat /sys/devices/platform/dsp/loadinfo | 06:24 |
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| Pupnik | i see there is a fix for Xomap which may solve Xsp pixel doubling problems. https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=531&group_id=164&atid=683 | 07:06 |
| Pupnik | However, i do not see that it has been applied to IT2006 Xomap server. I have xserver-xomap 6.6.3-28 (gregale) and my SDL applications still flicker to 1x scaling | 07:07 |
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| Pupnik | Is it correct that the Xsp/Xomap damage bugfix will not be applied to IT2006 due to 'Nokia dropping support for 770'? | 07:09 |
| Pupnik | And if this is true, is it possible to compile a fixed Xomap server for gregale/it2006 and allow user to upgrade via application manager / dpkg? | 07:10 |
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| ssvb | hi Pupnik | 10:28 |
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| Pupnik | ssvb i've just read through just about everything you've posted re: mplayer, dsp, colorspace conversion | 10:58 |
| Pupnik | they should make clones of you :) | 10:59 |
| keesj | ssvb rulez bit time! | 11:02 |
| Pupnik | heh but seriously, it was a very enlightening discussion to follow | 11:03 |
| keesj | Pupnik: I really agree with you | 11:03 |
| keesj | but I am not 100% for cloning | 11:04 |
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| Pupnik | for example, some tests on the forums by ssvb showed me that you have to be careful when feeding audio to gstreamer, otherwise you can waste cpu | 11:10 |
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| Pupnik | so it turns out my stupid way (fork a gstreamer-tool process) wasn't so bad | 11:11 |
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| Pupnik | "if you don't know what you're doing, get as much done as you can, doing as little as possible" | 11:14 |
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| keesj | :P | 11:35 |
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| keesj | Pupnik sometime it's also "if you know what you are doing" | 11:36 |
| keesj | or "if you think you have a brilliant idea, somebody else must already have implemented it" | 11:37 |
| keesj | ^[[1mChecking for required M4 macros... | 11:39 |
| keesj | ^[[m^O libtool.m4 not found | 11:39 |
| keesj | I have this message in sbox it2007 | 11:40 |
| Pupnik | yeah happens a lot | 11:40 |
| Pupnik | re: ideas | 11:40 |
| Pupnik | what package? | 11:40 |
| keesj | I hava a few a week , the one that are not implemented are a) to difficult for me or b) not that brilliant | 11:41 |
| Pupnik | i see libtool.m4 in bmp, digikam and dosemu | 11:41 |
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| Pupnik | hello |tbb| | 11:42 |
| keesj | this is where I find it http://paste-it.net/2020 | 11:42 |
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| keesj | to me it looks like it is part of opt/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/arch_tools/ | 11:43 |
| keesj | it2006 also has a libtool.m4 | 11:43 |
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| |tbb| | hi all | 11:50 |
| Pupnik | yeah well i don't know anything about it | 11:50 |
| Pupnik | gonna nap... | 11:51 |
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| tko | keesj: IIRC that's unique problem with gnome-autogen.sh, there's a bug in bugzilla | 12:09 |
| tko | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1018 | 12:11 |
| keesj | tko I copied the files from the it2006 and it's looking better. | 12:12 |
| keesj | I was trying to solve problem in a to "nice" way . In this case hacking was more rewarding | 12:13 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 12:26 |
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| maddler | morning all... | 13:29 |
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| kpel | hi all | 15:38 |
| tko | "Unlimited CD burning of songs (burn any playlist up to 7 times)" | 15:43 |
| tko | interesting interpretation for "unlimited" | 15:43 |
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| kpel | heh... marketing droids | 15:45 |
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| Sulis | i saw a post to a forum yesterday that was advising people not to install any third party apps to their brand new n800 | 17:18 |
| Sulis | :O | 17:18 |
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| Jaffa | Sulis: which forum? | 17:24 |
| Sulis | hmm, that i can't actually remember now, i just dismissed it as being silly | 17:25 |
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| sussman | that sounds pretty absurd | 18:02 |
| sussman | considering nokia is deliberately *trying* to get geeks to write third party apps | 18:02 |
| bhima|sleep | Packaging systems that threaten your system stability when you install a simple, straightforward app are silly. | 18:10 |
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| derf | bhima|sleep: The packaging system runs as root and can replace any file on the system. Obviously Nokia can't guarantee the safety of your device from someone who's malicious. | 18:16 |
| bhima|sleep | derf: Right. And, IMHO, that's silly. | 18:17 |
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| derf | Welcome to the world of software. | 18:18 |
| dpb | well, you could make a package manager that wouldn't do that.. | 18:19 |
| dpb | there's an LFS hint somewhere that you'd install each package as a different user, then they can't destroy your other packages files.. | 18:19 |
| bhima | Especially for maemo, it would seem reasonable to have packages that went into single directories. You don't need to install everything in system directories. | 18:20 |
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| bhima_ | ooops. linksys-- | 18:39 |
| bhima_ | "Especially for maemo, it would seem reasonable to have packages that went into single directories. You don't need to install everything in system directories." is the last I said. | 18:39 |
| Jaffa | bhima_: but if you want to modify a system file (e.g. start SSH at root, change root password to allow hacking etc.) then your package manager needs to be able to do anything; otherwise you're in the painful world of /var/install in OS2005. | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | Now, the stupid warning - that can go... | 18:40 |
| bhima_ | Jaffa: I would support two types of packages, dangerous and safe. | 18:41 |
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| maddler | hello all... | 18:42 |
| Jaffa | bhima_: but even a "safe" package could use all your CPU, drain your battery or upload all your documents to evilcorp.com (unless you have loads of privilege levels, like SELinux or UAC) | 18:44 |
| bhima_ | Jaffa: Agreed. I should mention that I also would like to see some movement towards document sandboxing, but I woudln't expect that on something like maemo :) | 18:45 |
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| bhima | Jaffa: I think being able to know that an install wouldn't brick your device would be good; given the amount of confusion I see about packaging here and there, I think there's also a greater chance of innocent mistakes. | 18:47 |
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| kpel | so working with Nokia on that is out of the question? | 18:49 |
| bhima | re: the unlimited burning, they mean that any track can be burned any number of times, you can burn an infinite number of CDs, but each specific playlist is limited to 7. | 18:50 |
| bhima | So you need to re-rip and re-burn to burn more than 7 copies of a CD. | 18:50 |
| bhima | As DRM goes, it's not that bad. But it's still evil. | 18:51 |
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| Jaffa | bhima: It's worth noting that it's very unlikely any deb for Maemo could truly brick either the 770 or N800 - they'll almost always be recoverable using the flasher (at the expense of user data) | 18:53 |
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| bhima | Jaffa: True. It just seems like it wouldn't be that hard to specify per-app subdirectories for normal apps that appear in the system menus, reducing the risk of even that for most apps. | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. But the device isn't geared for that: when an RSS feed can result in having to reflash the device and lose user data, it's not something you're going to want to trust :-( | 18:56 |
| bhima | Which RSS feed can do that? | 18:58 |
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| Jaffa | If you had the RSS home applet enabled in OS 2007 v1/2 and subscribed to the planet.maemo.org feed (or some others too IIRC), it would crash the applet at start, which crashed the desktop, which caused the device to reboot. But it did this every time, resulting in an infinite reboot which you could only escape with a reflash (or disabling the watchdogs) | 18:59 |
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| bhima | Ooh. That's not good. | 19:01 |
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| Pupnik_zZz | there are solutions for more fine-grained access control for linux but that complicates things | 19:16 |
| Pupnik_zZz | the basic root/user model goes back to 1969 i think | 19:16 |
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| kpel | in general, overengineering is a bad idea | 19:19 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: have you ever configured postfix+mysql+SMTP auth? | 19:30 |
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| Pupnik | Can not log onto test.maemo.org with garage.maemo.org account. Known problem? | 22:32 |
| qgil | Pupnik: you should be able | 22:34 |
| Pupnik | test says my account exists | 22:35 |
| qgil | Pupnik: let's see... | 22:36 |
| qgil | Pupnik: hum, now I can't log either apparently | 22:37 |
| Pupnik | garage login works | 22:37 |
| qgil | yeah | 22:37 |
| qgil | Pupnik: i don't know myself if they are aware, since they left the sprint stalled for the weekend... | 22:39 |
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| maddler | oh... qgil... hello, dude... | 23:00 |
| qgil | hi maddler | 23:00 |
| maddler | was working on a better (I hope) flyer... :) | 23:01 |
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| user_ | hi all, | 23:06 |
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| user_ | is exists a documentation about LED api programming? | 23:07 |
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| user_ | I write a plugin for claws-mail and I want to notify new message with led. | 23:10 |
| timelyx | it's just a dbus message iirc | 23:12 |
| timelyx | not very complicated or special | 23:12 |
| timelyx | good way to kill my battery | 23:12 |
| maddler | user_: wait... | 23:12 |
| maddler | hmm... can't find it... | 23:15 |
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| maddler | oh... jlbrd! my hero! | 23:17 |
| maddler | :D | 23:17 |
| jlbrd | oh.... just a little port | 23:18 |
| jlbrd | but CM work fine | 23:18 |
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| jlbrd | my plugin for CM can show an information banner, | 23:19 |
| maddler | well... maybe it was little... but it was the port I was missing the more! :D | 23:19 |
| maddler | now the only thing I'm missing is a good contact manager :D | 23:20 |
| jlbrd | play a wav, and i want to play with led | 23:20 |
| maddler | nice... nice... sounds interesting... | 23:20 |
| maddler | I'm using CM a _lot_ lately... | 23:20 |
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| * KevinVerma stopped expecting n800 to beat palm devices for productivity and pim | 23:21 | |
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| maddler | spending a lot of time out of my office... and being able to manage my mails in such a great way helps a lot! | 23:21 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: true... sad but true... | 23:21 |
| Pupnik | KevinVerma: do you have a commercial project proposal? | 23:21 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: Agendus was the best PIM I ever tried... | 23:22 |
| maddler | 20E well spent... | 23:22 |
| KevinVerma | comercial ? why'd i spent 400usd in hopes of freedom then | 23:22 |
| Pupnik | then you are free to write any app you want :0 | 23:23 |
| KevinVerma | thanks my life is not so free | 23:23 |
| KevinVerma | i contribute other way alot everyday | 23:23 |
| maddler | hehehe... Pupnik I would... but my coding is worst than my german... :D | 23:23 |
| Pupnik | is there commercial software for 770/800? | 23:24 |
| maddler | yes... | 23:24 |
| KevinVerma | coder ? i am not even a plumber sorry | 23:24 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: :D | 23:24 |
| KevinVerma | i am just a linux tech guy ;) | 23:25 |
| KevinVerma | my job is to ensure comercial support works ;) | 23:25 |
| Pupnik | tablets need more units sold, i think | 23:25 |
| Pupnik | also users willing to pay for software | 23:26 |
| maddler | Pupnik: yep... but many potential buyers keep comparing them with "standard" PDAs | 23:26 |
| KevinVerma | n800 is my friend after work in my bed as i lay my ass to rest every night lol | 23:26 |
| maddler | and PIMs are one of most important apps... | 23:27 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: mine as well... | 23:27 |
| maddler | surf the web... e mail... | 23:28 |
| maddler | watch movies... | 23:28 |
| maddler | but... I miss a _good_ PIM! :) | 23:28 |
| KevinVerma | web readability is better then palm's | 23:28 |
| KevinVerma | but mostly with google/xhtml | 23:28 |
| KevinVerma | i swear we need opera mini, better | 23:28 |
| Pupnik | KevinVerma: what is the best pim you have used? | 23:28 |
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| qgil | is the pim functionality you expect available in linux? | 23:28 |
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| KevinVerma | palm buit in's were super enough | 23:28 |
| KevinVerma | on the device otherwise jpilot or evo | 23:28 |
| KevinVerma | kdepim is superdupper | 23:29 |
| KevinVerma | yeah we have nice pim's for linux i have been satisfied | 23:29 |
| maddler | yup... a lot of PIM around... | 23:30 |
| Pupnik | kdepim can compare to the good commercial pims? | 23:30 |
| KevinVerma | but then, after quiting using palm life broke | 23:30 |
| Pupnik | then a port is possible | 23:30 |
| KevinVerma | goggle cl2 never came up with todo''s ;p | 23:30 |
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| KevinVerma | t rue kdepim rocks | 23:31 |
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| qgil | the GPE solutions doesn't make you happy? | 23:32 |
| osfameron | not me | 23:32 |
| c0ffee | me neither | 23:32 |
| c0ffee | i want notes | 23:32 |
| osfameron | gpe seems very lightweight | 23:32 |
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| qgil | ok, then probably: | 23:32 |
| qgil | if the interest were higher and/or the complexity were lower someone would have come up woith a port already | 23:32 |
| qgil | there is probably work ongoing | 23:32 |
| KevinVerma | gpe ? or any thing on n800 is so in-exportable or syncable | 23:32 |
| KevinVerma | we hardly have a good password manager | 23:33 |
| KevinVerma | no alternative browser that works | 23:33 |
| qgil | does the alternative browser have anything to do woith PIM? :) | 23:33 |
| KevinVerma | talks of productivity apps on n800 starts to boil me bit | 23:34 |
| KevinVerma | some what yes | 23:34 |
| KevinVerma | can't even use google calendar or notes better | 23:35 |
| maddler | btw... I'm happier with my N800 than what I was with all of my previous Palms... | 23:35 |
| qgil | ok, sorry for playing around with words | 23:35 |
| maddler | 770 was my 1st !Palm after about 10 years... | 23:35 |
| qgil | the thing is: Nokia is able to produce a PC suite to sync Nseries phones with Windows PCs relatively well | 23:36 |
| KevinVerma | i was desperate otherwise palm had lots of well working oss apps | 23:36 |
| qgil | I don't know how well you consider the smartphones have covered the PIM functionality, but this is another element to consider | 23:36 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: Palm and IT are two completely different classes of devices... | 23:36 |
| KevinVerma | just compare plucker and fbreader, hell of a difference | 23:36 |
| maddler | qgil: in fact I use my N80/E61 PIM functionalities... :D | 23:37 |
| qgil | the tablets are a more recent product, use a different platform (not Symbian) and are supposed to sync with not-only-Windows | 23:37 |
| qgil | the equation is a bit more complex, and this is one reason why the whole PIM think isn't there today | 23:38 |
| qgil | BUT | 23:38 |
| KevinVerma | again, was desperate for a true linux device, otherwise nokia has not been fair to exclude gsm/cdma modem | 23:38 |
| KevinVerma | not in phones but i hope you can imagine wifi does not go everywhere | 23:38 |
| qgil | the afct that the "Intenet Tablets" are not considered "Personal Assistants", the public targeted is not fully the same and the own PIM concept is evolving play a very important role as well | 23:38 |
| inz | Kevin, I prefer a small phone | 23:38 |
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| KevinVerma | don't buy into Ari's excuse of IT vs pim/phone | 23:39 |
| KevinVerma | at-least not so easily, i think they have a comercial reason behind it | 23:40 |
| maddler | qgil: true... true... but nevertless I would be happier if I had a good PIM :) | 23:40 |
| qgil | I'm talking about Ari's blog, I'm more in the lines of http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/339 | 23:40 |
| KevinVerma | to hold the scope till they have a stable suite | 23:41 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: personally, I've always preferred using two separate devices... | 23:41 |
| KevinVerma | even i do but... | 23:41 |
| qgil | KevinVerma: Nokia targets products to user groups - and the tablets are not primarily targeted currently to the user groups that find important the PIM functionality, that's all | 23:41 |
| KevinVerma | wifi does not go everywhere | 23:41 |
| qgil | said that, products, targeted audiences and market needs may chage over time | 23:41 |
| maddler | let's lobby!!! :D | 23:42 |
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| qgil | KevinVerma: the wifi thing is another issue | 23:42 |
| KevinVerma | thats what i said it will chage | 23:42 |
| KevinVerma | this time they deliberatly did not let it change | 23:43 |
| KevinVerma | a phone as an AP, two devices, two chargers, phone busy when online | 23:43 |
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| KevinVerma | i don't even need phone'' i just need to be online on cdma | 23:44 |
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| maddler | busy when online? | 23:44 |
| KevinVerma | country wide 3g flat fee plan | 23:44 |
| maddler | KevinVerma: but while on 3g... your phone can still get calls... | 23:45 |
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| KevinVerma | i don't of outside india or middle-east but when you are using data voice calling is not possible | 23:45 |
| qgil | KevinVerma: where do you live? | 23:46 |
| KevinVerma | presently india | 23:46 |
| MDK | re | 23:47 |
| qgil | mdk joins, time for me to sleep ;) | 23:47 |
| MDK | night | 23:48 |
| osfameron | even in uk and italy data connections pause during voice call | 23:48 |
| KevinVerma | funny, but does someome misses a hand strap for n800/770 ? | 23:48 |
| qgil | if the tablet would be also a phone that would change? | 23:48 |
| maddler | true... | 23:49 |
| osfameron | they /often/ resume after, but tbh i find it flakey... | 23:49 |
| qgil | anyway, if find this topic even less interesting than the pim one - and I'm falling asleep :) | 23:49 |
| maddler | osfameron: I'll try it tomorrow... (.it here) | 23:49 |
| KevinVerma | as i tried to mean gsm/cdma is a better option for continues online on go | 23:49 |
| osfameron | maddler: me too right now, on TIM | 23:50 |
| qgil | the good thing about the pim stuff is that you don't need Nokia to solve the equation | 23:50 |
| KevinVerma | g'nite | 23:50 |
| maddler | osfameron: Tre for me... | 23:50 |
| qgil | (I was never interested in a Palm and I'm happy with the tablets) good night! | 23:50 |
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| osfameron | ah! i thought about getting a trepackage, but i heard it was a 'walled garden', and work pay for this one so... | 23:52 |
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| Pupnik | that is a good phrase, because when people want to do something with a free OS, they frequently are asking for access to another walled garden | 23:53 |
| Pupnik | and they do not understand that it is not the fault of the free OS that it can not cross the wal | 23:53 |
| Pupnik | but the builder of the wall | 23:53 |
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| KevinVerma | dude don't blame the word free that much | 23:54 |
| Pupnik | can you re-phrase that? | 23:55 |
| maddler | trepackage? | 23:55 |
| KevinVerma | i believe just a modem would get more developers as well | 23:55 |
| maddler | dunno... | 23:56 |
| KevinVerma | and then help towards better applications could have been fast | 23:56 |
| KevinVerma | they could not evwn imagine a easy to plug in serial port acessory | 23:57 |
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| KevinVerma | and they dream of easy acess to developer help | 23:58 |
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| KevinVerma | this is just a push the button test, like in lost tv series | 23:59 |
| KevinVerma | a long term product suit strategy | 23:59 |
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