IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-04-26

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Pupnikhas anyone tried the patch for xomap which supposedly fixes some Xsp damage issues?00:26
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PupnikDaniel Stone apparently wants Xsp 'killed' and i have to assume he's got good reasons for that.  Still it would be a great help for games and emus if pixel-doubling could be fixed to work reliably00:28
Tak|workI don't really care if xsp gets killed, as long as there remains some simple way to get hw-accelerated scaling without being locked into e.g. Xv00:29
PupnikLooking at alternatives to get faster screen updates.  It might be possible to use ssvb 's direct frame buffer writing, overlaying some SDL functions (put_rect / page flip?)00:29
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PupnikTak|work: yeah... Does the pixel doubling mean the dsp is unavailable for mp3 sink accelerated playback?00:30
Tak|workI don't think so00:31
Pupniki suppose i could test this :)00:31
Tak|workI tried a dsppcmsink-based audio driver for a while00:31
Tak|work(which didn't seem to conflict)00:31
ssvbPupnik: maybe Daniel Stone can just implement support for setting (emulating) low resolutions in xserver? this should cover most of current Xsp uses and be more compatible with existing applications00:32
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Tak|workwould work for me00:33
ssvbPupnik: pixel doubling (and arbitrary upscaling on N800) is unrelated to DSP at all, it is done by Epson graphics chip00:34
ssvbTak|work: did you try working directly with DSP tasks for audio output?00:36
Tak|workno, not yet00:36
ssvbTak|work: are you going to try?00:36
Tak|workI'd like to create a dsp task for the sample generation00:36
Tak|workassuming I get a coincidental spike of time and ambition, yes00:37
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ssvbTak|work: deciphering and documenting gstreamer dsp sinks code might be the first step to use Nokia provided DSP tasks bypassing gstreamer layer00:39
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* Tak|work nods00:40
Pupnikyou have dsp programming documentation?00:40
ssvbTak|work: it may work more reliable, at least theoretically00:40
Tak|workyeah, although prone to breakage when nokia shuffles things around with new releases00:42
ssvbPupnik: here is some report about using dsp on 770 with some simple examples:
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ssvbPupnik: there are lots of TI docs about C55x DSP00:42
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Tak|workwe still don't have source to nokia-provided tasks, do we?00:44
ssvbTak|work: yes, the first thing to verify is if DSP tasks API is the same on 770 and N80000:44
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Pupnikok not that i will be dsp programming any time soon though :)00:44
ssvbTak|work: I think we may forget any hope about ever seeing these sources00:45
* Tak|work nods00:45
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Muzerohi to all01:09
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* bill20r3 waits patiently for usb-host drivers.01:14
Muzerosomeone have tried a jvm on nokia 770?01:16
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Pupnik ok easiest way will be to do an execlp() to launch external mp3 dsp playback01:56
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Pupnikbut can i use gst-tools to detect whether i am currently playing? :)01:59
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Pupniki could use  ps aux |grep gst-launch |grep -v grep02:05
Pupnikif that's nonzero, then a song is playing :)02:17
Pupnikwarning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type `struct std::string' through02:21
Pupnikahh need to cast ogg_name to a 'const char'?02:22
inzstd::string::c_str() should be what you want02:23
Pupnikconst char *name  is what forked player uses02:24
Pupnikcan i just do const char *oname;02:25
Pupnikand oname = ogg_name ?02:25
Pupnikif ogg_name is type "string"?02:25
sp3000<>: service unavailable. Command output: Message content rejected02:28
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sp3000I think postfix just dissed me02:28
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Pupnikheh i need to find a method of C++ string that returns a pointer to a character array02:29
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Pupnikso mychararray = mycstring.c_str  ?02:33
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Pupnikahh just needed ()02:37
inzisn't it what I said?02:39
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Pupnikspawning a gst-launch process doesn't seem like such a terrible idea for music playback02:49
Pupnikthanks for the help inz and sp300002:49
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Pupnikgrh gst-launch could use a repeat flag eh?03:30
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unique311source for appleII emu...i need04:27
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Pupnikcan i test if gst-launch is playing, without resorting to a ps |grep?04:36
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Pupnikah i need to execlp instead of using system()05:56
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Pupnikexult anybody want to test exult?07:51  <- music files07:51
Pupnik  <- exult binary and data files07:52
Pupnikultima 7 game data required07:52
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JaffaMorning, all11:08
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keesjbugger my touchscreen is loosing sentitivity again11:24
zuhThat seems to be a common problem, I have parts of my screen less sensitive than others and kulve has the whole screen going all funky. I wonder if this is a calibration problem or just simply a hw being crappy...11:35
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kulveI would guess the latter11:35
kulvereflashing or recalibrating didn't help at all11:35
keesjzuh I had the same problem on the 770 at the place where you click the most11:37
keesjthat is at the icon to open the main menu11:37
keesjit started like that and after the whole vertial line stopped working :(11:37
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polpakdoes anyone know where I can find documentation on building gstreamer plugins so I can actually play videos on the n800 (in my app) ?11:45
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polpakso far as I can tell, there aren't any formats that are supported out of the box which is highly frustrating11:46
kulveapt-get install gstreamer0.10-tools && gst-inspect | less11:48
polpakkulve: yes.. I did that11:48
kulveso you see there are video decoders on the device11:49
polpakkulve: I might if I was using the device...11:50
polpakkulve: I'm using the sdk11:50
polpakkulve: do they not put the decoders in the sdk?11:51
polpakkulve: cause that makes it a bit challenging to write applications that do video ;p11:51
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kulvewhy? compile in the sdk, run on the device..11:53
kulveand yeah, those closed source codecs are not in the sdk11:53
kulvegenerally I find running stuff in the cross compilation env (SB) too compilated and problematic and don't anymore even try it..11:54
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polpakkulve: what's the easiest way to transfer files to the device?11:55
polpakkulve: what's the username11:56
kulve(because the user 'user' doesn't have a passwd)11:56
polpakkulve: presumably there's not a default password?11:56
kulve'rootme' of course :)11:56
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kulveso don't leave your ssh running without changing the passwd while roaming on public wlans..11:57
polpakkulve: indeed11:57
polpakkulve: thanks much. You've been most informative11:57
kulvenp :)11:58
* polpak has to go get the damned device back from his coworker now11:58
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`0660heh, i'm in a uni lecture where we have a guest lecturer who at least worked in nokia doing stuff for maemo :)12:27
`0660or maybe he was an external contractor there... anyway should be interesting lecture :)12:28
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inz`0660, which row you in?-)12:38
`0660left side, no hair :)12:39
inzI can see you... ;)12:39
inzLast row, on the right ;)12:39
`0660scary :)12:40
inz`0660, *phew*, I'm not the oldest student on this lecture (course?)13:04
inzWell, there might be someone even older, but 0660 is at least 4 days older than me!13:07
`0660hah, now i feel old even though i'm just 24 :)13:07
`0660heh, he's talking about how to take advantage of oss when doing closed source :)13:10
c0ffeestrangle him!13:11
gla55there must be someone older there13:11
osfameronnothing wrong with taking advantage of OSS in closed source projects13:13
keesjjust avoid gpl13:17
`0660it's just that he seemed to take it for granted that we would always develop closed source13:17
inz0660, did you close your ears on the part where he told the motivation for keeping parts closed?13:18
`0660i might have missed something while focusing in irc :)13:18
`0660i saw that part13:18
osfameronyou can use gpl in server side or web applications no problem13:19
inz*graah* I'm almost certain I saw dbus 0.61 packaged for dapper somewhere...13:20
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inzBut now I can't find it anywhere...13:20
inzI wouldn't like to run the sw inside scratchbox (maemo has 0.61 which has fixed glib bindings)13:21
inz(the problem with 0.60 is with aa{sv} signature for a parameter13:22
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konttoriseems to be radio silence here today.15:36
konttorinobody talking anything15:36
Andy80I'm from my 770 :)15:37
Andy80I've a little question: how can I help you with google soc?15:38
* pahartik at park with Nokia 77015:38
konttoriI didn't understand what you were asking15:39
konttorican you rephrase?15:39
Andy80pahartik, lucky you, to have wifi connection at park :)15:39
Andy80konttori, me?15:40
dpb_who says it's wifi?15:40
Andy80right dpb15:41
pahartikAndy80: I do not... I use WCDMA/GPRS over Bluetooth everywhere15:41
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pahartikAndy80: Except at my cave, where I have Bluetooth access point15:43
Andy80pahartik, ah cool anyway15:44
pahartikAndy80: I am very much tied up to mobility15:45
Andy80I'll be back later...see ya!15:46
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Pupnik_why do people need google to declare a 'summer of code' to code something?16:42
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anthmIf they did it all 4 seasons it may end up too well designed to earn the trendy "beta" status =D16:44
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dragornI'd guess 2 reasons - college students and HS students (to be generous) have work during the rest of the year, and people suck at self-motivation16:47
mgedminI'm pure genius at sucking at self-motivation... :(16:49
derfPupnik: Also, they get paid.17:06
derfIt's amazing what students will do for even the smallest amounts of money.17:07
Pupnik./exult: relocation error: ./exult: symbol powf, version GLIBCXX_3.4 not defined in file with link time reference17:08
Pupnikdoes anyone know why on the nokia is 3x smaller than the one in scratchbox?17:09
* Pupnik has to try compiling against the native, or find what library in the source is calling powf17:10
Pupnikyeah derf, i suppose getting paid a couple hundred bucks to write something is much more exciting than getting paid to make burgers17:11
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dragornPupnik: the easiest reason might be that the one in SB contains debug info17:17
dragornPupnik: run file on it, see if it says "not stripped"17:17
Pupnikyeah notstripped17:17
dragornthat'd be why17:18
Pupniki found the code calling the powf though, so pulling it out will at least solve that17:18
dragornit's for debugging in sb17:18
Pupnikso i used an inappropriate compile/link option?17:18
Pupnikthe executeable gets stripped17:18
dragornpowf is probably in libm17:19
dragornstripping applies to objects, so a dynlink to a stripped/not stripped object ought to be interchangeable17:19
Pupnikthat's what i thought.  the powf function should still be in the stripped libstdc++17:20
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lardmanAny Python programmers here? What book(s) would you recommend for reference (coming from C/MATLAB/FORTRAN/C++ background)?17:24
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dragornthe oreilly learning python book is pretty good17:25
lardmanand also, does anyone know whether there's a Python PrettyPrinter module available (for equations), or a rendering module for MathML or OpenMath?17:25
lardmanProgramming Python looks like it might be more advanced (=good)17:28
JussiPDive into Python is quite nice and also free.17:32
lardmanI've just downloaded that to take a look - I could do with a paper book though, I'm not fond of reading on the screen (bring on e-paper!)17:34
lardmanLooks like it should give me the basics, thanks17:35
lardmanLots of internet stuff in there; I'm more interested in GUI stuff (to display the maths studd)17:35
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Pupnikwoot -O3 worked well for exult!17:41
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Pupnikanybody up for some playtesting?17:54
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lardman cool :)18:05
lardmanthough dead from the looks of it18:06
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k-s[WORK]lardman: you may look at scipy, numeric and other related projects18:20
k-s[WORK]lardman: I also find pyx useful
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lardmank-s[WORK]: Thanks, matplotlib looks good for the graphing side. I've already hacked this code ( to produce a frontend for yacas, so I don't need much by way of mathematics programming in python atm18:44
lardmanthough I will do when I add other functions, graphing, etc.18:44
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lardmanWhat I do want is to prettyprint the equations that go in and out18:45
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PupnikExecution ended after 127221649000 ns18:52
Pupniktimer resolution overkill18:52
lardmanwhat's that timing?18:53
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Pupnikgstreamer mp3 playback18:57
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gpdI am currently without a wireless network at home - how can I get my N800 to have access to the net via the USB cable to my laptop?19:34
gpdIf that is tricky - I just found a USB wireless card that I suppose I could use to setup an ad hoc network to the N80019:37
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zuhIt's nontrivial, but there is few howtos on usb networking: (under "Networking")19:38
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gpdthanks zuh - as you say, a little complex for right now - I guess I'll wait for my DSL router to arrive ;)20:03
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Pupniki wonder when it will be possible to make a n770/800 tablet for around 250 dollars20:24
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Pupnik400 usd is great, but at lower price points you could see sales explode20:25
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Pupnikheh, playing aklabeth on the 770 now20:43
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* k-s[WORK] is away: lunch20:46
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Disconnectfyi i got 2 of the 4gig non-spec sd cards for my n800. (currently on the wootoff) they work great.20:48
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Sulisi've just got a bluetooth keyboard for mine20:57
soldstaticooo i would like that20:58
soldstaticbut i dont have the cash20:58
soldstaticI'm going overseas in a few weeks, I really want to get a BT GPS receiver20:58
soldstaticbut again, no cash20:58
Sulisyeah, i thought about getting one of those20:59
soldstaticDo you have 800 or 770?21:00
soldstaticoo fancy pants arent ya21:01
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soldstaticlittle webcam and all21:01
Sulishad it for a few weeks, but realised that typing anything long with the stylus was a bit painful21:01
soldstaticThat it is21:01
soldstaticI set up ssh on mine so I could do most everything from my laptop21:02
Sulislol, i don't think the little webcam is worth very much to me21:02
soldstaticbigger screen and keyboard, easier for maintanence21:02
soldstaticwhat do you use yours for?21:02
Sulisjust browsing the web and chatting really21:03
Sulisi'll see how well it can function as my music player if i get a large memory card...21:03
mgedminit functions adequately21:03
mgedminthe media player is a bit silly (press "next" twice very fast, and it'll play one song while showing a different song name)21:04
soldstaticI use for media player all the time21:04
soldstaticCanola is a great app for media playing21:04
soldstaticgreat for in the car or just regular21:04
mgedminthe 1.5-second lag where it continues playing after you press "stop" is also a bit annoying21:04
soldstaticI have videos and music and of course lots of internet radio stations21:04
mgedminI used Canola (and liked it a lot), but then it went schizophrenic on me21:05
soldstaticha that sucks21:05
Sulisyeah, canola is good, but it's not indexing my music properly atm21:05
mgedmin(random play started playing the same track over and over again, things like that)21:05
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soldstaticAh wierd21:05
mgedminI suspect that's because Canola uses the same media player engine as the media player21:05
mgedminand I tried to use both at the same time, confusing both horribly21:06
mgedmin(it's not very smart to keep local state when you're controlling a daemon that can also be controlled by other apps)21:06
mgedminanyway, e-books is the killer feature of the n800 for me21:06
Sulisthat's a good thing about it too, but everytime i update fbreader my library gets wiped, irritating21:08
soldstaticI read more in the last couple months than I have in the last couple years21:09
mgedminSulis: that's interesting, have you brought that to the attention of fbreader's developers?21:10
* thoughtfix wanders back21:10
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* Pupnik plays a game written in 1981 on the n770 :P21:18
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Sulishaha, oops21:19
Sulismgedmin, no i haven't reported it to the developers, tbh i thought that it would be a known issue21:19
mgedminI've upgraded fbreader many times, but I don't think I ever lost my library21:20
mgedminactually, I did when I moved all the books into a different directory :)21:20
mgedminbut that's not fbreader's fault21:20
Sulislol, no21:22
Sulisi'm gonna have to sort out the shortcuts for this keyboard...all the defaults use the F keys, and this doesn't have any21:24
Suliswhen was the last firmware update?21:29
Sulisand would the sdhc firmware include the nokia updates?21:32
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* ks-[AWAY_WORK] is back.21:37
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k-s[WORK]Sulis: what it's not indexing properly?21:40
k-s[WORK]mgedmin: I already told you that we do use the same engine and that's the problem reason21:41
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polpakHow do you ssh into the n800?21:42
polpakit's apparently running an ssh daemon21:42
polpakbut I can't figure out what user/pass to use21:42
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Sulisk-s[WORK], it's not indexing my mp3s21:50
polpak`0660: yeah, I tried that. It doesn't seem to work. Do I need to change some setting to allow root to login?21:50
Sulispolpak, you don't need to change anything21:50
mgedminpolpak: which ssh server have you installed -- openssh or dropbear?21:51
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polpaklooks like dropbear21:53
Sulisi've got the same, and i just ssh right into root, don't need to change anything21:53
sp3000maybe someone already logged in and changed it :)21:53
polpakit's a "work" device21:54
polpakI'm supposed to write an app for it21:54
polpakand someone apparently already messed it up21:54
polpakis there a way to flash it?21:54
Suliswhat app are you going to write for it?21:54
polpakSulis: that'd be telling ;p21:54
Sulisyep, tell tell tell!21:55
* polpak prefers to keep the lawyers at bay21:55
mgedminsure, flashing is the way you get OS upgrades on it21:55
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polpakmgedmin: would it reset the device settings also?21:55
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Pupnikno, you can't flash it.  it's broken.  i will buy it for 150 euro.21:56
polpakmgedmin: and how do you do it?21:56
mgedminbut you can back up and restore them21:56
mgedminthere's a windows GUI app for flashing (that I've never seen)21:56
polpakmgedmin: it's a demo system, so there's nothing on it I need21:56
mgedminand cmdline apps for linux/mac os x21:56
polpakmgedmin: is there a non-windows app?21:56
mgedminyou can get those from somewhere at maemo.org21:56
polpakmgedmin: ok, I'll take a look21:57
mgedminyou can find documentation about flashing on as well21:57
sp3000surprisingly enough the general support site links all directions ;)
mgedminbut the URL is not very memorable22:00
sp3000hm, except mac afaict22:00
sp3000sure it is, :P22:01
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polpakwhere is the usb port on this thing22:08
polpakunder the stand22:08
tigertwell hidden :)22:08
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Pupnikthat's so annoying, why don't they make a wireless usb?22:10
maddlerevening all...22:11
* Pupnik salutes maddler22:11
inzPupnik, if you could also charge with that, it'd be helluva cool22:11
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Pupnikthere are some companies starting to market wireless rechargers22:12
Suliswireless usb...hmm, that does sound nice22:12
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Suliscourse, bluetooth exists to fill that sort of gap22:13
Pupniki wasn't being serious :)22:14
Sulisomg but bluetooth still exists! see what you did!22:14
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Sulisis there an sdhc firmware with the nokia version 3.2007...... stuff?22:26
kulvenot in the stock version, afaik22:27
kulvezuh made a sdhc enabled kernel available22:28
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Sulisbut that would basically be the 2.2006...... version22:29
kulvenot sure what you mean, I mean this:
Sulishmm, well that does answer my question...i think22:33
Suliswill have to update my n800 this evening22:33
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zuhThere's a kernel for 2.2005.51 in
Pupnikhuh.. somebody made an embedded java for the 770.
zuh(as well as for the newer firmware)22:43
Suliszuh, there's no advantage to keeping the old firmware is there?22:43
zuhNo, quite the opposite. The newer firmware has some video enhancements and naturally bug fixes.22:45
Sulisyeah, that's what i thought22:46
kulveit seems that the newer have (at least on my use) much better power saving. And it hasn't really crashed once after the update. But the touchscreen is broken, so I haven't used it much lately..22:48
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thoughtfixHmm ... I'22:53
Sulisthe touchscreen is broken? i assume that's a hardware issue?22:56
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kpelhi all23:20
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* Pupnik 'playtests' some more :)23:21
kpeldoes the latest maemo release work out of the box for N800?23:25
Pupniki haven't heard otherwise23:25
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kpeldoes youtube work properly with maemo or is a flash upgrade needed?23:29
kpel(flash as in macromedia flash)23:29
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Suliskpel, maemo has an optimised version of flash23:31
kpelSulis: so it can play youtube videos without problems?23:32
Suliswell i still have the older version of 2007 and it plays but it drops video frames, i don't know if the new version will play without dropping frames23:33
kpeldoes video conferencing work?23:34
kpeli'm thinking of buying an N800 and installing maemo23:34
inzThis is a bit nitpicking, but maemo is actually the SDK, which you really don't want on the device23:36
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kpeloh, so it's not the actual image then23:37
kpel(not that I mind playing with the SDK)23:37
inzHas stopped updating?23:38's planet has 3 posts not found on planet.maemo.org23:39
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