IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-04-16

*** richieeee72 has quit IRC00:00
*** implement has joined #maemo00:01
*** kerwood|afk is now known as kerwood00:02
*** ajturner has quit IRC00:05
*** konttori_ has quit IRC00:11
*** ajturner has joined #maemo00:16
*** dolske_ has joined #maemo00:24
*** polpak has joined #maemo00:25
*** behdad has joined #maemo00:30
*** snorkelyd has left #maemo00:31
*** ajturner_ has joined #maemo00:45
*** ajturner has quit IRC00:46
*** |tbb| has quit IRC00:49
*** dolske_ is now known as dolske00:53
*** xan has quit IRC00:58
*** Andy80 has quit IRC00:59
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC01:04
*** dolske has quit IRC01:05
*** ssvb has quit IRC01:06
*** RpJ has quit IRC01:07
*** RpJ has joined #maemo01:08
*** cecil is now known as cesman01:09
*** Yamazaki-kun has quit IRC01:13
*** kerwood is now known as kerwood|afk01:20
*** kerwood|afk has quit IRC01:22
*** NickDe has quit IRC01:25
*** booiiing has quit IRC01:32
*** booiiing has joined #maemo01:34
*** smcv has joined #maemo01:54
*** mazzen has quit IRC02:07
*** fab has quit IRC02:08
*** ajturner_ has quit IRC02:16
*** _pcfe_ has quit IRC02:22
*** ajturner has joined #maemo02:24
*** jacques has quit IRC02:27
*** NickDe has joined #maemo02:29
*** dieguito-zzz has quit IRC02:30
*** dieguito-zzz has joined #maemo02:31
*** Molagi has quit IRC02:36
*** kerwood|afk has joined #maemo02:39
*** robin_says_hi_ has joined #maemo02:41
*** florian has quit IRC02:45
*** kerwood|afk is now known as kerwood02:48
*** unique311 has joined #maemo02:55
*** jpetersen_ has quit IRC02:58
*** pigeon has joined #maemo03:09
*** dolske has joined #maemo03:11
*** dolske has quit IRC03:13
*** dolske has joined #maemo03:18
*** dolske has quit IRC03:20
*** dolske has joined #maemo03:24
*** dolske has quit IRC03:24
*** soleblaze_ has joined #maemo03:26
*** soleblaze has quit IRC03:27
*** dolske has joined #maemo03:27
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC03:28
*** spect has quit IRC03:30
*** soleblaze_ has quit IRC03:31
*** soleblaze has joined #maemo03:31
*** krau has quit IRC03:35
*** rkaway1 has joined #maemo03:51
*** dolske_ has joined #maemo03:54
*** dolske has quit IRC03:55
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC04:15
*** ajturner has quit IRC04:21
unique311i want to add repos to my scratchbox bora it safe...and how do i go about doing so?04:28
*** Pio has quit IRC04:36
*** Pio has joined #maemo04:37
*** koen has joined #maemo04:43
*** ajturner has joined #maemo04:44
*** ajturner has quit IRC04:45
*** dolske has joined #maemo04:50
*** dolske has quit IRC04:52
*** dolske_ has quit IRC04:52
*** kerwood is now known as kerwood|afk04:53
*** polpak has quit IRC05:18
*** polpak has joined #maemo05:19
*** rev has joined #maemo05:26
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo05:27
*** mikemorrison has quit IRC05:38
*** dolske has joined #maemo05:39
*** mikemorrison has joined #maemo05:44
*** implement has quit IRC06:04
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo06:19
*** bipolar has quit IRC06:53
*** zwnj has quit IRC07:07
*** zyxulnag1 has joined #maemo07:10
unique311i have good newssssss07:19
unique311compiled gimp for n80007:20
unique311and it workss07:20
unique311scratchbox armel07:20
*** zyxulnaga has quit IRC07:24
*** rkaway1 has quit IRC07:26
dolfundid you make install?07:26
dolfunand then run gimp-2.0?07:27
unique311using it right now in scratchboc07:27
unique311i  ran gimp07:27
unique311not 2.007:27
*** rkaway1 has joined #maemo07:27
unique311theirs 2 executables07:27
unique311gimp and gimp2.007:27
unique311i ran gim07:27
unique311its somewhat hildonized...but needs work...07:28
unique311gonna zip it and upload it07:28
dolfunis your scratchbox bora?07:28
unique311i think Pupnik tried it earlier for 770, and it showed black..07:29
*** dolfun is now known as Pupnik07:30
unique311it runs...07:30
unique311i need to see if it'll run on my n80007:30
Pupniki compiled it in gregale07:30
unique311bora is a go07:30
Pupnikis there a homepage for it? not a download page?07:31
unique311so ok... now thats good and dandy...who hildonize this thing07:31
unique311could check in a few for you...07:31
Pupnikok just wondering07:31
Pupnikif they changed anything to standard gimp07:32
unique311whopping 15MB07:33
Pupnikdo you have time to try it out?07:42
*** bergie has joined #maemo07:42
Pupnikgimp on the tablet07:42
unique311bout to bluetooth it to the n80007:42
unique311its hildonizing it i'm worried about..coding and moi are not friends...07:43
Pupnika lot of things require keyboard07:44
Pupnikyou said this was from a zaurus site?07:44
unique311did not think of that07:45
mikemorrisonunique311: can you take a screenshot?08:03
*** user__ has joined #Maemo08:05
user__danm...i interrupted the transfer and now my computer slowed down to slug sppeds..08:06
user__gotta hard reset08:06
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC08:07
*** unique311 has quit IRC08:14
Pupnikuser__: how responsive is the airbrush tool?  can you sketch with it?08:16
Pupnikor does it lag too much08:17
*** unique311 has joined #maemo08:24
*** netx has joined #maemo08:24
*** user__ has quit IRC08:26
Pupnikunique311: how responsive is the airbrush tool?  can you sketch with it?08:26
unique311had issues with my computer..08:27
unique311i'm transferring the folder right now to my n80008:27
unique311i'll tell you as soon as i got it setup08:27
Pupniki think that will be a problem with the 77008:29
Pupnikworking with a tablet and airbrush is great, but when it lags, it ruins the usability08:29
Pupnikbut there are still a million uses for gimp even without that08:30
unique311airbrush tool..08:30
unique311hardly use it08:30
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo08:33
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo08:40
Pupniki think i found out why fceu sound stutters08:40
unique311dude gimp hildonize somewhat nice in scratchbox...08:41
unique311screenshot it for ya08:41
Pupnikthat's cause it's gtk08:41
unique311still transfering it to freaking my card..08:41
unique311its almost perfect08:41
*** _follower_ has quit IRC08:45
Pupnikfor me, the 770 is almost perfect :)08:47
unique311running gimp?08:47
Pupnikno as a device08:47
Pupnikdon't have much space free08:48
Pupniklet us know how much it takes on your / filesystem after you install08:48
unique311well its 55mb unpacked08:51
unique311so its huge08:51
Pupnikbtw the gimp binary is actually a symlink to gimp-2.008:51
unique311i ran gimp-2.008:52
unique311works same on scratchbox08:52
unique311airbrush at work08:53
unique311its 3 windows..08:53
*** booiiing has quit IRC08:53
unique311the toolbar, the layers, and the actual canvas08:54
*** pleemans has joined #maemo08:54
*** konttori_ has quit IRC08:57
mikemorrisonwith all those windows it must be a little annoying to use08:58
unique311that in scratchbox08:58
unique311still have to test it out on the n80008:58
mikemorrisonyes i can see that.. hehe08:59
unique311k, cross ur fingers08:59
mikemorrisonin the scratchbox switching between windows is pretty fast. but on the n800 it is quite a bit slower so switching and forth would be annoying08:59
mikemorrison.. switching back and forth09:00
*** jacques has joined #maemo09:03
Pupnikthis drives me nuts, tak's build of fceu doesn't give me the same xsp doubling problems as my own compile09:04
Pupnikmight be a problem with my build environment09:07
*** booiiing has joined #maemo09:09
Takwhich build?09:24
Takand what configure opts are you using with yours?09:24
Pupnikno config opts09:25
Takusing the debian scripts?09:26
Pupnikthey break not finding sdl so i just ./configre && make09:26
Pupnikcleaning out the dir and re-unpacking09:26
Takthen you shouldn't be getting xsp at all...09:27
ptmanwouldn't it be better to fix the breakage09:27
*** ubulakifluff has joined #maemo09:27
Takneed at least --with-xsp09:28
Pupnikchecking XSP_CFLAGS... -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -DXTHREADS -DXUSE_MTSAFE_API -I/usr/X11R6/include09:28
*** ubulakifluff has left #maemo09:28
*** ubulakifluff has joined #maemo09:28
Pupnikok configure --with-xsp09:29
Pupnikdiff Makefile Makefile109:29
Pupnikno difference09:29
Pupnikhi ubulakifluff09:29
Pupnikanyway Tak, here's a description of sdl sound09:30
*** rev has quit IRC09:30
Pupnikfrom Nach, one of the real snes9x devs
Pupnikposted Tue, Mar 13 - about 3/4 down the page09:30
Takmeh, my opera is crashing09:31
Pupniki can msg you his text about sdl audio if you want09:31
Taksdl sound sucked so badly I wrote an esd driver09:31
Pupnikoh so your fceu isn't using sdl sound09:31
ubulakifluffI like to write a code that scrolls the area with pen drag (without visible scrollbars), I googled but can't find such a code. Where should I search?09:32
Pupnikdarn his explanation sounded so plausible for the stuttering09:32
*** zulla has joined #maemo09:32
PupnikTak do you have a IT2006 build environment?09:32
Takthe 770 is just too slow to handle the emulation, the sound emulation, the blitting, and the playback all at once09:33
Takit's almost perfect on the n80009:33
Pupniki'm curious whether someone else's build of ur-quan-masters would show the same effects i'm seeing09:33
*** xan has joined #maemo09:33
Takyes I do - probably can't test until tonight (cdt) though09:34
Pupnikok thanks09:34
Pupnikit's crazy, when i run your fceu and move the synergy x11 cursor over the doubled playfield09:37
Pupnikit flickers briefly down to non doubled but returns09:37
Pupnikwhen i run my build, i get all kinds of artistic effects, junk on screen09:37
Pupnik#gregale main. 3rd major stable release of maemo sdk in 200609:39
PupnikDevkits: debian cputransp09:39
PupnikCPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb209:39
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo09:39
Pupnikubulakifluff: sorry i don't know09:40
ubulakiflufftnx anyway09:40
ubulakifluffI should look GTKAdjustments I think09:41
*** xan has quit IRC09:50
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo09:53
zullaGuys, check out http://www.umpcportal.com09:57
zullaApparently, there's a Hildon-based x86 Linux distribution in the works09:58
Pupnikgreat news zulla09:59
Pupnikgetting intel behind it is huge09:59
*** polpak has quit IRC10:00
zullaPupnik: Yeah, but I certainly hope that Nokia, Redflag and Intel will work together. I'd hate to see two different Hildon-based efforts going on.10:00
*** pleemans has quit IRC10:00
*** bergie has quit IRC10:01
*** everaldo has quit IRC10:01
*** richieeee72 has quit IRC10:09
jku__Very interesting.10:11
jku__Also notable is Intels term MID instead of UMPC: their definition of "MID" seems to be very, very close to 770/n80010:13
zullajku: Exactly. I wonder if "Internet Tablet" is somehow trademarked by Nokia, since Intel's effort appears to be pretty much the same thing.10:15
*** gleitz has joined #maemo10:21
*** _follower_ has joined #maemo10:21
*** Eloi has joined #maemo10:21
zuhThey seem to plan on using Hildon stuff, but try not to mention it too prominently :)10:22
*** Eloi has quit IRC10:23
*** gleitz has quit IRC10:23
*** gleitz has joined #maemo10:23
gleitzhi all10:23
gleitzis anyone familiar with pygtk on scratchbox?10:23
gleitzor, more generally, gtk in general? just wanted to know what specific packages should be installed to get gtk to work in scratchbox10:24
*** bergie_ has quit IRC10:25
keesjif you installed scratchbox using the installer scripts gtk/hidlon should work.10:25
gleitzhmm, i did use the installer script10:26
keesjthere are also installation manuals on the website that tell you how to install.10:26
keesjhmm actualy , I don't know enough to really help, I know hidlong is gtk based and I don't know if you could even install pure gtk on sbox10:27
Pupniknote: gtk2.0 is standard10:28
gleitzyeah i all seems rather straightforward10:28
gleitzwanted to get pygtk to work just for the ease of use10:28
gleitzi put the .desktop file in the proper locate, .py file in /usr/lib/hildon-home10:28
gleitzbut when i try to add the home plugin within scratchbox it doesn't appear10:28
gleitzi bet it would work if i used the n800 device instead of the scratchbox, but it would be nice to avoid that10:29
Pupnikhmm, ssh to the device and see what is different10:30
gleitzdifference is that all the files within the device directory are shared object files, not .py10:30
gleitzdoubt that would make a huge difference, but it would be nice to see how an app that used pygtk installs itself10:31
JaffaMorning, all10:34
*** sKaBoy has joined #maemo10:39
*** gleitz has quit IRC10:39
* keesj has a big 10:41
keesjthe morning after effect10:41
keesjI wish it was just not monday morning.(celebrated my son's birthday)10:42
*** ubulakifluff has quit IRC10:47
*** greentux__ has quit IRC10:48
*** greentux has joined #maemo10:55
* Jaffa wonders if MIDLinux's more polished UI (according to the screenshots) will make it back to any Nokia devices.11:01
*** lardman|gone is now known as lardman11:02
*** slomo has quit IRC11:04
*** fab has joined #maemo11:04
* zulla wonders if Nokia knew about MIDLinux or if they are as surprised about it as he is.11:05
*** booiiing has quit IRC11:09
*** pleemans has joined #maemo11:10
roopeMore polished? :D11:11
roopejaffa: could you show some links to that11:11
roopeto the screenshots, I mean.11:11
roopeThe ones I've seen are a ripoff of iphone / canola / maemo combined poorly in photoshop.11:11
*** booiiing has joined #maemo11:12
*** _m0 has joined #maemo11:17
*** slomo has joined #maemo11:19
*** florian has joined #maemo11:26
floriangood morning11:28
*** jpetersen has joined #maemo11:30
Pupnikroope, referring to the candylike reflective appleish icons?11:38
Pupnikthat's a design trend11:38
*** pleemans has quit IRC11:39
Pupniki just ordered a webspace for 99 cents a month - 25GB traffic11:39
*** pleemans has joined #maemo11:40
* Pupnik is surprised how cheap hosting has become11:40
*** bedboi has joined #maemo11:41
*** bilboed has joined #maemo11:41
konttoriI have to say that the top bar icons in the MIDLinux screenshot is nice and simplistic.11:41
konttoriOTOH, they are a bit of a OSX ripoffs11:41
Pupnik"The OS install footprint, though, is between 500MB and 1.5GB"11:42
Pupnikpics of devices here11:45
Jaffaroope: Ripoffs of iPhone and Canola aren't any problem to me if they result in a better UI.11:46
Jaffaroope: I just like seeing device/use-case specific designs (whether succesful or not), rather than squashed down desktop metaphors.11:49
partJaffa: both are non-free software11:50
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo11:50
AD-N770good morning11:50
*** inz has quit IRC11:51
*** inz has joined #maemo11:52
Jaffapart: Like lots of Nokia's UI then, to "distinguish their product in the marketplace".11:54
partJaffa: crap, really11:54
*** pleemans has quit IRC11:58
*** povbot has joined #maemo12:04
Jaffapart: yup12:10
zullaroope: let's see how much of it is photoshopped.12:11
zulla - wonder if that's related?12:11
Jaffazulla: even if it's a PS hackjob, it still sets a direction and a level of quality of what you can expect.12:13
roopejaffa: Are we now talking about the same screenshots?12:14
* Pupnik is gathering moral courage to resume porting PocketSNES12:14
roope  these ones?12:14
roopeI fail to see the level of quality in them. :)12:14
roope  that's simply awful, imho.12:15
roopeIcons all over the place, graphics are are a ripoff, the text is too small, it's non-scalable etc. etc.12:15
roopeOffice, Voip, More, Date?12:16
Jaffa looks cool.12:17
timelessis garage svn for new projects working yet?12:18
Jaffaroope: point taken, although having the launcher horizontally where there's most space with proper thumb-oriented usage makes more sense than the use of vertical space and enormous menus scrolling a pixel at a time.12:19
JaffaAnd it's a nice background picture :)12:19
roopeWell, horizontal is two hand usage compared to vertical one, but yes, the scrolling is bad.12:19
*** dieguito-zzz has quit IRC12:20
roopeThe only screenshot they currently have of a real application looks like maemo mapper. so i'd reserve my praise for actually seeing what they have done.12:21
roopeand no, ripping off the iphone graphics and canola works isn't really cool.12:21
roopeApple won't also think that it would be very cool. Main-stream users would see "oh, it's an iphone ripoff" after seeing those.12:21
roopeand people don't have positive reactions to recognizing ripoffs.12:22
Jaffaroope: can you use an existing Maemo/Hildon device with just one hand?12:22
* Jaffa 's never really tried12:22
roopewell, some tasks yes, with the left hand. In theory at least.12:23
roopesince the rocker is there, task launcher is accessible with the left thumb etc.12:23
JaffaI'd be worried about dropping the device, but the N800 might be more rugged than it feels12:23
glassreading books is ok with one hand12:24
*** mk8 has joined #maemo12:24
glassusing the 5way button on 770 is doable with one hand if you hold it certain way12:24
mk8Hi to all ...12:24
konttoriTOp bar in this screenshot is much nicer than the one roope posted:
roopeAnd a lot less functional. :)12:26
* konttori agrees with Jaffa that N800 / 770 is not usable with on hand.12:26
Jaffa(in general)12:26
JaffaReading an ebook, as glass says, is doable - but that's about it.12:27
konttoriroope: Well, it's missing the application name and the home button, but otherwise it's the same top bar12:27
konttoriOTOH, Left bar is much nicer that the bottom bar pictured in the screenshot12:27
* konttori just like the icon design in the top bar12:28
JaffaThey could be praised for releasing (screenshots) early, and releasing (screenshots) often.12:28
konttoriSimplistic enough for my taste12:28
roopeI'd like to see one element that wouldn't be a ripoff from apple or maemo. :) But yeah.12:29
roopeThose status icons look like apple icons.12:29
roope(which are good, yes)12:29
roopeBut I don't think that's ... very kosher even in open source to steal graphics like that.12:29
roopeAt least I wouldn't be releasing screenshots with commercial graphics.12:31
roopeEven though it's early and often. ;)12:31
JaffaOne of the screenshots seemed to contain an iPod IIRC12:37
*** ssvb has joined #maemo12:37
konttoriroope: OTOH, they could choose kosher way and adapt the icons a bit but retain the idea of using one color icons12:39
* zulla once again wonders what Linux projects in China the West never hears about.12:40
konttoriI think top bar icons are much better served in one color mode, as they are so small in pixel count and the idea is that they shouldn't be catching users attention when user is not interested in their contents12:41
roopekonttori: I agree with that.12:41
roope(except the presence icon) :)12:41
konttoriOr they don't have anything special to say (like battery almost over -> turn battery icon red)12:42
konttoriyeah, presence icon might have some small colorind depending on the situation.12:42
* timeless sighs12:43
timelessis anyone here familiar w/ SVN management?12:43
Jaffa is interesting for not showing it as just photoshop: the top one in particular looks like Hildon Desktop (or some variant) with some different icons/configuration)12:47
devtimeless: what's the question?12:47
timelessi'm wondering about the maemocjk svn on garage12:48
timelessit has:12:48
timelesstags/ trunk/ wolfg/ www/12:48
timelesswolfg/ has two directories named to match directories in trunk12:48
Jaffa also has apps you don't see on Maemo: Real Player icon, Google Maps app, a different Sylpheed port etc.12:48
timeless(no idea about their content, it's not really my job)12:48
roopeThat's the old maemo development skin, as far as I can tell.12:51
roopeBut yeah, it's exactly the same.12:51
devtimeless: maybe some branches from something in trunk12:53
timelessdev: isn't that the point of branchees/ ?12:54
devtimeless: if you follow "conventions" - yep, but there is no reason for not having a "sandbox" or even a "wolfg" dir for his personal branches. It is just a name.12:58
*** pcfe has joined #maemo12:58
timelessdev: it's just a pain if you happen to try to do anything automatic...12:58
* timeless hates svn12:58
zullaThose pics at Engadget are just taken from the Intel PDF, as well.12:59
devtimeless: no need to :-), svn is nice, but only as good as its users13:01
timelessdev: sorry, i don't have any experience w/ good users13:02
timelessjust lots and lots of experiences w/ bad users13:02
timelessthey're more than a dime a dozen13:02
devwelcome to the club ;-)13:03
*** polac_ has joined #maemo13:04
*** jku_ has joined #maemo13:05
timelessi'm pretty sure i'm a foudning member :)13:06
roopewe'll publicize that a bit more soon, but here's a preview.13:08
* timeless wonders what it is13:08
roopeAs the entry says, if you have any ideas/questions/comments/discussion topics for the blog, please give comments.13:08
timelessroope: does this mean it's open season on ui flaws?13:08
timelessif it is, i'll start writing them some sunday13:09
roopeWell, it's open season for constructive public discussio on the ui. :)13:09
roopeI'll probably write a separate entry like "Rant about applications to this entry".13:09
timelessroope: so public discussion, does that involve asking for new features?13:09
roopeYou can ask and propose everything. We're a bit limited in discussing some factors, but that's our problem.13:10
roopeAll ideas are naturally welcome.13:10
timelessspeaking from 11months of expereince13:10
roopei.e. we can't really tell what is accepted to appear in the next releases.13:10
roopeAnd it's a shame, but that's just the policy.13:10
zuhroope: I hope that page design is not reflecting the flexibility of the UI team ;)13:10
timelessalmost all ideas are naturally unwelcome,  or was that unnaturally unwelcome13:10
roopeIt's a wordpress ready template. :) We're doing the release soon thing with the blog also .:)13:11
timelesszuh: having seen the ui tean, but not the ui, i'd have to say i'm sure it *is* a reflection of their flexibility13:11
timelessboy, my typing's bad today13:11
roopePerhaps I'll write an entry for that already.13:12
zuhI just don't get the "I want my page this wide period" designs... That'd look pretty sad on a wide screen.13:12
timelesszuh: looks fin in links :)13:13
roopezuh: well, a paragraph of a certain width is more readable than a wide one. :)13:13
timelessroope: that's a user's chioce13:13
roopeBut blame tigert, he chose the template. ;)13:13
timelessif the user has a 300' wide screen13:13
jku_on any font size?13:13
roopeAnyway, I don't think that's really relevant. We can change it on the fly.13:13
timelessand is watching it from the other side of a football stadium13:13
timelessthen forcing the text to be cramped into a 1' wide area13:13
timelessis not good13:13
*** polac has quit IRC13:15
roopeLet's see if I can find a better template for it then.13:17
timelessgood luck13:17
roopeWordpress has a rather limited amount of default templates.13:18
roope"A smooth two-column theme adorned with a banana. Very personal." Hmm...13:18
roopeWell, that's about the only 1 column theme that they have there. It'll have to do for now.13:19
zullaroope: - then adapt that to your needs.13:20
* zulla 's own wordpress blog is rather boring but he's working on it based on that Sandbox theme.13:20
roopeI don't think that the template is the #1 we should be putting our focus on now. :)13:21
* timeless shrugs13:21
timelessfrom my perspective, the first thing the ui team needs to do is get a consistent look and feel13:21
roopeUi team or ui theme?13:21
*** jku__ has quit IRC13:22
timelessteam. you said "we"13:22
roopefrom my perspective it doesn't matter a single bit.13:22
roopeThe device has 5 sets of graphical skins, for starters.13:22
timelessnot the n80013:22
timelessyou must be imagining some other thing13:23
roopeok, 4 sets. I counted plankton as the fifth. :)13:23
timelessi'd count valentine's if we're going to count third party nokia13:23
zullaroope: sorry, but the 4 default skins show a questionable choice of design taste.13:24
zullaroope: both on 770 and n800...13:24
timelesszulla: it's a third party or two13:24
timelessthis stupid nokia nseries design group13:24
timelessand then  i believe the stupid group responsible for the homepage for the rest13:25
zullatimeless: i'm speaking about the pre-installed themes that came with the original firmware.13:25
timelessyou can't actually blame the ui team for the themes13:25
timelesszulla: yes13:25
roopeYes well, you can perhaps imagine the complexity of theme selection.13:25
roopeor generation. :)13:25
*** kkito has joined #maemo13:25
timelesszulla: fwiw, there are *worse* themes13:25
zullatimeless: there always are.13:26
kkitohello :)13:27
timelessactually, it's probably lunch timme13:28
* timeless wonders when the last post gets sent13:28
*** jku_ has quit IRC13:34
*** Sonej has quit IRC13:43
*** bergie has joined #maemo13:49
Pupniki want a flybook13:50
Pupnikon the other hand, a 770 does just about everything i want13:51
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo14:05
*** zyxulnaga has joined #maemo14:06
bergieguys, authentication works again14:14
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo14:17
*** zyxulnag1 has quit IRC14:20
roopetigert, people were critizing the fixed layout ;)14:22
roopeit's not web kosher.14:22
glassi don't think it's bad14:22
roopesince it's fixed.14:22
* tigert starts to think fixed width is better14:23
tigertbut that is just a website style14:23
glassif it had no width limit it would look like crap..14:23
tigertread it with your rss client14:23 is flex-width14:23
tigertand I am starting to not enjoy that14:23
tigertsince it makes it very hard to make good layout inside the "container"14:24
roopeperhaps we should put a dropdown there to people to select the template they like to see ;)14:24
tigertor just use their rss reader14:24
tigertlets not focus on the stupid details14:24
tigertI selected the narrow template since it makes things easier to read14:25
*** vidarino has quit IRC14:25
*** lmoura has quit IRC14:26
inzI dig flex-width14:26
Pupnikhmm, kdrive has shm support14:26
tigertI do too, but its hard to do it well14:26
inzYeah, sometimes it is.14:26
roopeem-width would be good.14:26
Pupnikglass, now any apps for 770 that use shm for image blitting?14:27
roopeso that that width would change depending on selected font size14:27
glassPupnik: sorry no14:27
inzroope, I prefer to be able to choose the width by resizing my browser14:27
Pupniki suppose i should look at mplayer sources for fastest dislpay write implementation?14:27
roopei don't think thats good anymore, with tabbed browsing.14:28
roopei have lots of tabs open, i don't want to resize window manually.14:28
glassi want to keep my browser fullscreen14:28
roopesince i need to resize back when going to next tab.14:28
tigertI keep my browser constant width14:29
roopeso tabbed browsing i think has changed the rules somewhat.14:29
tigertfor some sites its good to have flex-width14:29
tigertlike web forums14:29
tigertbut i dunno, as long as stuff is not forced wider it's ok14:29
tigertbut for the content producer its much easier to design layout when the "size of the paper" is known :)14:29
glass"use 1024x768" is so 90's14:29
tigertI dont mean that14:30
tigertbut rather than just be less than 1024 wide if possible14:30
tigertwhether flex or not14:30
glassyeah but thats what it would be if it text was the width of the browser14:30
tigertas long as it doesnt force horizontal scroll its fine14:30
*** luck^ has joined #maemo14:30
*** vidar has joined #maemo14:31
*** Molagi has joined #maemo14:33
*** jwb_gone is now known as jwb14:41
*** felipec has joined #maemo14:43
*** pcfe has quit IRC14:43
Pupnikcool, running 3d games on a pc from a nokia would be possible14:50
*** pcfe has joined #maemo14:52
tigertwhy on earth would you want to do that?14:53
tigertit's like "I run this game on Wine, it's almost playable!" - makes sense if you are a wine hacker14:53
tigertbut not much for an end user14:53
Pupniklol i know14:57
PupnikXshm is the shared-memory extension and has been around for years. It allows you to pass X protocol stuff in a shared memory segment14:57
Jaffatigert: if you want to be a print designer, be a print designer - or use PDF. Blogs are designed to be *read*, so they should be as easy as possible to read - I know *lots* of people who increase font sizes due to very bad eyesight and fixed width designs break horribly badly.14:57
Pupnikdga allows for direct graphics access to a video card's frame buffer.14:57
Jaffatigert: as you say, if you care that much your RSS feed would consist of an image for each entry as that's the only way to guarantee display format in that medium ;-)14:58
MolagiPupnik would it be possible to run oblivion with n800 with that? :)15:01
Molagithat would be something15:01
Pupnikyou can probably do it now with vnc15:02
Pupnikhmm maybe not15:02
Pupnikok i see
Pupnikbut ld: cannot find -lXxf86dga15:03
roopei guess this is part of releasing the blog early. :) we can improve on it later.15:03
Pupniki do have  /usr/lib/libXrender15:05
timelesspupnik: just because files exist doesn't mean they're built..15:06
tigertJaffa: :)15:10
mikemorrisonbergie: i still can't log in15:11
tigertJaffa: just like some idiotic websites had full page gif15:11
tigertwith text15:11
*** osantana has quit IRC15:11
bergiemikemorrison: we need to sync the user account list still, but older accounts at least can log in :-)15:11
*** aCiDBaSe has joined #maemo15:11
bergieI'll ping you when ferenc has done it15:11
mikemorrisonahh. how soon do you figure?15:13
partHas anyone had problems with the stupid empty packages with the sdk?15:15
ssvbhi, does anybody know what repository should be specified in .install file for OS2006? (mistral or gregale)15:18
timelessgregale is newer iirc15:19
*** krau has joined #maemo15:19
Pupniki see mplayer has a special output driver nokia770 and can also use xv15:19
inzBut mistral compiled most likely work for all mistral, scirocco and gregale15:20
Pupnikbut it says no xvideo support for your card15:20
inzWhich is why I use mistral roostrap to build packages15:20
timelessseems to be fairly clear15:21
Pupnikpart nope15:21
ssvbinz: So should I replace 'mistral' with 'gregale' in mplayer .install file? I'm pretty much confused15:22
kaatisintel "MID Linux-Based Software Stack" .. "RedFlag MIDINUX "1st Linux Distro for MID"
ssvbinz: what problems can be expected if some apps get installed with .install files using 'mistral' and some using 'gregale'?15:24
inzssvb, it all depends on what release you use on your device15:24
inzssvb, if you have the latest release, it doesn't really matter, all should work just fine (even mixed)15:25
ssvbinz: I guess users may have any release, will application installer handle all the possible cases correctly?15:26
ssvbmaybe someone from Nokia could give some advice15:26
timelessapplication insaller isn't amazingly clever, it's basically apt15:27
timelessso if apt is likely to mess up, application installer probably will too15:27
tigertplus AI won't remove conflicts15:27
tigertthus it will back off15:27
tigertie, it plays safe15:28
tigertwhich is probably good15:28
inzssvb, you will run into trouble if the user has older version than the repository is for15:28
ssvbfor OS2007 everything is clear, maemo 3.0 is 'bora' and 3.1 is 'bora' as well, but OS2006 has a whole bunch of different repositories for minor bugfix releases15:28
*** Pupnik_ has joined #maemo15:32
ssvbtigert: I just checked blog entry, Maemo Mapper uses 'gregale' for OS2006 in .install file, but mplayer still uses 'mistral', installing these two packages from single click install files is impossible because of that15:35
bergiessvb: we're planning to split the app catalog to catalog per OS release15:35
bergieto solve these issues15:35
*** dvlahakis has joined #maemo15:35
*** Vudentz has joined #maemo15:36
bergiebesides, I guess many apps have different release cycle for different OS versions15:36
Pupnik_ssvb: do you understand how mplayer writes direct to framebuffer?15:37
tigertthis bora vs gregale vs mistral stuff is very confusing anyway15:37
Pupnik_i'd like to reduce overhead for blitting rectangles, for uae, snes9x, dosbo etc15:37
ssvbPupnik_: sure I do, I have developed that code :)15:38
tigerteven the os2005 vs os2006 vs os2007 is15:38
Pupnik_ssvb, since dga isn't there, i don't see how mplayer bypasses kdrive, any tips?  or the file in the source i need to look at?15:39
timelesstigert: so, what's the post office url and how do i get hours? :)15:39
Pupnik_btw mplayer checkout is freezing at mplayer/tags/1.0rc1-maemo.10/DOCS/xml/pl/containers.xml15:40
timelesspupnik: i just updated all of the garage roots i have about an hour ago15:40
Pupnik_well that's ok i got the source trunk15:41
timelessi only have about 180 of them15:41
timelessi'm missing probably nearly two dozen at this point :(15:41
Pupnik_ah vo_nokia770.c15:41
bergiemikemorrison: try now15:43
*** Pupnik has quit IRC15:43
ssvbtigert, bergie: does it make any sense to have anything other than 'mistral' for OS2006 extras repository? Do newer releases introduce API changes? I just can't find compatibility notes for 2.x releases.15:43
bergieno idea, sorry15:45
tigertMDK: do you know?15:45
timelesstigert: we could probably find out, i suppose15:46
tigertthats why I asked mdk, because they've been working on the toolkit stuff15:48
MDKtigert, ssvb: on the hildon side, not really15:48
timelessok, i've now seen a ui that is *dumbeR* than nokia's15:49
timelessStatus: Copying Installer Files ...15:49
timelessInstalling mgabyte 18 of 3815:49
timeless(typo is mine, my system is lagging)15:49
MDKtigert, ssvb: the mistral+ hildon API is same15:49
tigerttimeless: please, can you stop bashing our ui all the time?15:49
tigertI know it has problems, like every UI15:50
tigertbut its starting to be a bit old15:50
tigertto hear about it here all the time15:50
tigertMDK: so then apps built for bora or gregale should be compatible?15:50
tigertman, this is so confusing its not funny15:51
MDKah no15:51
MDKI thought you're talking about 770 releases15:51
MDKbora is not compatible with mistral15:51
MDKit's to a certain extent15:51
MDKbut not 100%15:51
tigertor "haha"15:51
ssvbPupnik_: yes, it is right file, mplayer uses YUV colorspace but RGB should be the same, main problem is to synchronize concurrent access to framebuffer with xserver, that's why mplayer creates x11 window and does all that x11 stuff in this file15:52
ssvbPupnik_: I may try to write some short framebuffer usage guide if I find time for that and if anybody is interested15:53
Pupnik_ ssvb you don't need to spend much effort writing it.. just a textfile of some background info and links and things you discovered while working on it would be a big help15:54
ssvbPupnik_: you can check this link, it contains some of the information about framebuffer api:
Pupnik_thanks! :)15:58
ssvbPupnik_: check omapfb.h file for all the necessary constants, pixel doubling is just a bit flag for screen update ioctl call, there is no such thing as enabling or disabling pixel doubling at the framebuffer level (it pixel doubling state is introduced in xserver, framebuffer itself is 'stateless' on Nokia 770)16:03
Pupnik_good to know - saved16:05
Pupnik_also seeing fastmem-arm9 which i need to understand16:06
ssvbbergie, tigert, MDK: about extras repository, if application is compatible with all maemo 2.x firmware releases, can you try to decide on recommendation whether 'mistral', 'scirocco' or 'bora' should be preferred for OS2006, it can clear some confusion16:09
bergiebora is 2007, isn't it?16:09
ssvbPupnik_: it is just an optimized implementation of memcpy for Nokia 770, is a bit faster than default memcpy16:10
ssvbbergie: it was a typo, s/bora/gregale16:10
bergieI guess I better not comment the naming and leave that to the Nokia guys :-)16:11
ssvbPupnik_: it provides a decent improvement when you have lots of bulk memory copy operations (for example implementing double buffering), you can benchmark this function yourself but in my tests it was 10-40% faster16:13
Pupnik_such operations are a large part of emulating the SNES PPC - though i haven't benchmarked yet16:14
Pupnik_most of what it's doing is layering bitmaps via memcpy16:14
*** lsobral has joined #maemo16:15
ssvbPupnik_: there are also variants for 16-bit and 32-bit data, they have lower prologue/epilogue overhead, so are better for smaller buffers16:17
Pupnik_well memmove too16:19
Pupnik_ah which these are16:19
ssvbPupnik_: If you need to clear bitmaps fast, there is also optimized memset function (with 16-bit variant as well), it is more than twice faster than default memset16:20
Pupnik_yes lots of that, excellent!16:20
ssvbPupnik_: I do not have memmove function yet, memcpy needs to be modified to copy data backwards to implement it16:21
Pupnik_are the versions in mplayer the ones i want?  or is there a page with these?16:24
ssvbPupnik_: 'arm9_memcpy16' is for 16-bit data, but these sources have lots of comments, so everything should be clear, the latest version of these functions is in mplayer SVN trunk, there is no separate page for them16:26
ssvbPupnik_: I think I will add some page for developers and optimizations tips and tricks to maemo mplayer website16:27
*** etrunko has joined #maemo16:30
ssvbPupnik_: inline asm versions are potentially not safe, so *.S file is preferred, looks like gcc used in maemo SDK is buggy, see
Pupnik_ok i can't get into this yet, still merging in the faster/simpler engines - once those work, i'll look into fb and mem functions16:34
*** vivijim has joined #maemo16:34
tigertnice example videos from konttori16:40
tigertof course the demo effect kicked in and my device switched wlans during playing :)16:40
tigertand the world screeched to a halt16:41
tigert(why does it do that??)16:41
Pupnik_videos of what?16:44
*** CountDown has joined #maemo16:44
*** bergie has quit IRC16:48
tigerturho's new N800 optimized example videos16:51
tigertsee planet16:51
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo16:56
zullatigert: I tried those videos. Don't you think that they are quite choppy?16:57
konttoritigert: nice to hear that you like it. I have to say that ssvb:s suggested 512x288 is much better balance between good framerate and rez.16:57
konttoriI'll add that today16:57
CountDownIs Flumotion available for Maemo?  A quick search didn't come up with anything.16:57
tigertzulla: a bit16:58
konttorizulla: I agree that they are a bit choppy. But only a little. Depends on what you watch. It's only bad for very fast paced action movies.16:58
tigertok. got to run16:58
zullatigert, konttori: don't know. I transcoded "a very long engagement"16:58
zullait's not exactly an action movie.16:58
zullaI found it very unpleasant to watch the 14fps version.16:59
ssvbkontorri: probably it depends on individual preferences and perception, I myself easily notice reduced fps videos and find them quite unpleasant to watch17:02
onionhas anyone tried claws mail on a 770 ? appinstaller complains about missing libsm617:04
ssvbkonttori: so finding a highest resolution which can be played at full framerate with (almost) no framedrops is a preset which I would like to use17:04
* mgedmin just waits for someone to figure out the best n800 settings for mencoder and post a shell script17:04
unique311#! /bin/sh17:04
zullamgedmin: use 770-encode.pl17:04
unique311trying to run a file that starts with the above post..17:05
*** chenca has joined #maemo17:05
mgedminI assumed the n800 can support better quality settings?17:05
zullamgedmin: I use 400x240@30fps with 700 kbits.17:05
unique311but getting a compaint in maemo17:05
zullamgedmin: I just patched those settings into 770-encode.pl17:05
zullaworks fine for me.17:05
ssvbzulla: did you try increasing resolution a bit?17:06
zullassvb: no, didn't try that yet.17:06
zullassvb: only tried 592x352@25fps, but that didn't work on the n800.17:07
zullassvb: no other experiments beyond that.17:07
ssvbzulla: N800 uses a high quality hardware scaler, so there are no magic numbers which should work worse or better17:08
zullassvb: no modulo 16 limit?17:08
ssvbbut increasing resolution introduces tearing and makes video harder to decode (framedrops), so there should be some limit17:09
ssvbzulla: that 16 pixels limit is probably in video decoder but not necessarily scaler17:10
ssvbanyway, increasing resolution with 16 pixels on each step is not so restricting17:11
* zulla is _somewhat_ happy with 400x240 video. But I could go on and on asking Nokia to reconsider their design choice that limits playback resolution @30fps...17:11
Pupnik_there were limited options available17:12
*** bergie has joined #maemo17:13
Pupnik_battery_life=1/(speed)^2 for e.g.17:13
*** jluisn has joined #maemo17:16
*** Tak|work has joined #maemo17:18
unique311Pupnik_ whats up man...17:20
konttorissvb: 512 can be played @ 18 fps without framedrops. So, I guess that's the optimal for n800 default player17:20
Pupnik_chillin with a movie17:20
unique311still working on gimp17:20
unique311i could get it to work on the n80017:21
unique311cuase the  prefix was set to scratchbox..17:21
ssvbkonttori: maybe going down to 480 can provide support for full framerate?17:21
unique311went on #gimp they gave me some clues on what to do..17:21
konttorissvb: I'm not sure if the player supports 480.17:22
unique311   gimp on scratchbox....yeaahhhh17:22
konttorissvb: But I'll try to test that as well.17:22
ssvbkonttori: but it is divisible by 16 right? maybe it would work fine. It is also interesting to ensure that it does not have tearing17:23
zuhunique311: Old news, gimp on device from the debian-armel port ;)17:24
unique311where the deb?17:25
unique311wasting my time working with this one..17:25
zuhNot really17:25
zuhWhat I had was the official debian port to armel running in a chroot17:26
zuhWhich takes some hundred megs of space...17:26
unique311im at 5517:26
unique311with the cacko source..17:26
Pupnik_you ran configure without -gimp-print right?17:31
Pupnik_maybe there's more stuff there that can be pulled out17:31
*** korpios has joined #maemo17:34
konttorissvb: Not all 16 divisibles work on the device.17:34
*** jarichardson has joined #maemo17:35
jarichardsonso... is the 770 abandoned now?17:35
*** luogni has joined #maemo17:35
unique311i did run it wihtout print...17:36
unique311it won't compile with print unless u install print lib17:36
*** sKaBoy has quit IRC17:37
*** greentux has quit IRC17:38
unique311zuh i notice your menu bar, how did you get it so small...17:39
keesjcan somebody with the 3.1 sdk test a small program for me?17:39
keesjI am going to paste again sorry717:43
Pupnik_i only have 2.217:46
* mgedmin has 3.017:47
keesj2.2 also does not work for me17:47
* mgedmin could probably apt-get upgrade...17:47
*** rodarvus has joined #maemo17:49
keesjPupnik_ can you try
keesjI get parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 517:50
Pupnik_command not found dh_make17:52
keesjI did not explicitly install dh_make(I think)17:56
keesjnow I need some apt-magic to know what package should be installed17:57
Pupnik_yeah there's a program to do that17:58
Jaffakonttori: mencoder doesn't have any decent pulldown methods for getting 25fps video to 18fps, though.17:58
keesjthere is a dh-make package17:59
Pupnik_the problem was strange characters in the downloaded commands18:01
Pupnik_now it works18:01
Pupnik_Type of package: s/m/l/k?18:02
Pupnik_make[1]: *** No targets.  Stop.18:02
Pupnik_did not get that error18:02
Pupnik_*your error18:03
keesjthanks , what does apt-cache policy dh-make give you?18:03
jarichardsonuh, so is the 770 abandoned?18:03
Pupnik_no candidate18:03
Tak|workdepends who you ask18:03
Pupnik_jarichardson: what do you mean by abandoned?18:03
jarichardsonno updates, no fixes...18:04
jarichardsonfrom nokia18:04
jarichardsonno new flash updates, opera updates18:04
Pupnik_that is correct i think18:04
Pupnik_in other words, you get what you paid for18:04
jarichardsondamn, i hate buying hardware that becomes obsolete in a year18:04
Pupnik_plus a world of open source18:05
jarichardsonopen is a relative term18:05
jarichardsontons of closed source tools on the 77018:05
X-Fadejarichardson: Why is it obsolete? It doesn't stop working after that year. It just stays in the state it is after the last firmware update?18:06
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo18:06
jarichardsonfair enough, it just sucks owning a device that everyone drops18:07
Pupnik_i'm porting apps to the 77018:07
Pupnik_so are other people18:07
jarichardsonthis kind of history is enough for me to stop buying products from a given company18:07
X-FadeMost software runs on both type of hardware. Video is even better on 770 ;)18:08
jarichardsonvideo playback is better?18:08
Pupnik_buying a product doesn't entitle you to a lifetime of free product upgrades18:08
jarichardsonwith mplayer?18:08
Pupnik_mplayer is excellent18:08
jarichardsonyes, but when you spend a decent chunk of money on something, you'd exepect it to be supported for longer than a year18:08
Pupnik_again, we come to the issue of what you expect by 'support'18:09
jarichardsonhmm, do you have to reencode all the videos to work well with mplayer?18:09
X-Fadejarichardson: What do you like to see fixed?18:09
jarichardsoni'd like to have a common API between the devices, so software doesnt need to be "ported"18:09
jarichardsonotherwise it just makes developers do more work18:09
X-Fadejarichardson: Well virtually everything is the same on both devices..18:10
Tak|workthere is a common api - most 770 apps work out of the box18:10
Tak|work (on the n800)18:10
jarichardsonnot vice-versa18:10
X-Fadejarichardson: You always develop for the lowest common denominator..18:10
X-FadeSo that is 770 in this case..18:10
zuhX-Fade: Unless you want to do video that is...18:11
jarichardsontrue, but does it say that in the develpment docs? "develop for a 770 so you don't have to back port your app later"18:11
X-Fadezuh: Yeah, but that is broken hardware design ;)18:11
zuhXvideo extension?18:11
X-Fadezuh: Not easily fixable via software..18:11
zuhWhich isn't there in 77018:11
Pupnik_i think nokia was right to stick with ti/arm18:12
jarichardsonso the 800 has the xv extension, but has poorer performance?18:12
X-Fadezuh: So you don't use xvideo but the supplied dsp codecs? :)18:12
zuhX-Fade: On N800? Are they still there?18:12
X-Fadezuh: I think so?18:15
jarichardsonhmm, are there any replacement linux distributions for the 770, since i wont be getting any further updates from nokia?18:15
zuhX-Fade: Nope, not present.18:16
X-Fadejarichardson: Nokia provides a clean root filesystem..18:16
unique311zuh how did you get the menu bar so small?18:17
zuhX-Fade: And IIRC they required extra work to use anyway (through Xsp)18:17
X-Fadezuh: Ah, i had seen the mp3sink and guessed that the mpeg codec was there too..18:18
zuhunique311: It doesn't use the maemo theme so the font size is not the same... The theme in that shot is the regular clearlooks one18:19
jarichardson has a distribution18:19
*** jacques has quit IRC18:20
X-Fadejarichardson: Did you try out the 2007hacker edition on 770?18:20
jarichardsonno, links?18:20
X-FadeThat gives you a lot of N800 features. I think it is better than the 2006 image..18:21
Tak|workI hope they fix the annoying click/pressure issues18:21
X-FadeAnd update it to the latest 2007 image ;)18:22
X-FadeI have been thinking about building a script to take a 2007 image for N800 and replace it with the parts needed for 770..18:23
*** konttori_ has quit IRC18:25
*** buck68 has joined #maemo18:26
jarichardsonno libopera from 2007 kinda sucks... the main app i would like updated18:29
*** Pupnik_ is now known as Pupnik18:34
*** snorkelyd has joined #maemo18:34
*** koen has quit IRC18:38
*** greentux has joined #maemo18:39
*** bergie has quit IRC18:42
*** fab has quit IRC18:44
*** koen has joined #maemo18:48
JaffaX-Fade: that'd be very handy - AFAIK Os2007on770's released *no* build instructions, which makes it Yet Another Closed Image.18:53
*** tchan has quit IRC19:01
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo19:03
*** _m0 has quit IRC19:05
*** mauro__ is now known as dientespodridos19:06
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone19:11
etrunkoanyone knows what's happened with maemo gtk-2.10??19:12
etrunkoit used to live here
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo19:12
inzetrunko, it went trunk19:12
*** tchan has joined #maemo19:12
etrunkoinz: thanks19:13
*** kender has joined #maemo19:13
*** garrett has joined #maemo19:14
etrunkoinz: is this one??
*** zyxulnag1 has joined #maemo19:15
*** rev has joined #maemo19:16
*** garrett has quit IRC19:17
* konttori_ checked. N800 can't cope with 480x288 @ 25 fps.19:18
zullakonttori_: thanks.19:18
Pupnikwhat codec konttori_ ?19:18
konttori_Of course mplayer can do it easily19:18
inzetrunko, yes (check debian/changelog to see the version)19:19
konttori_But then again, mplayer on N800 can play 800x600 at 10 fps19:19
*** greentux has quit IRC19:19
konttori_Not 800x600, 800x48019:19
*** mk8 has quit IRC19:19
etrunkoinz: i'm fixing the jhbuild-modules19:19
Pupnikssvb: have you benchmarked speed of raw framebuffer writes on 770 or 800?19:20
inzetrunko, never used jhbuild, but I guess it's good to have it working. =)19:22
konttori_Funny. It's not so much a resolution issue. Works @ 20 fps on 512 kbps, but not on 768 kbps.19:24
etrunkoinz: yeah, i've just reinstalled my machine, so its quite useful19:24
*** greentux has joined #maemo19:25
inzetrunko, I wonder I one should add a cd .. after the make installs in HildonDesktopPortability...19:25
ssvbPupnik: framebuffer is a normal system RAM, it is quite fast19:25
inzetrunko, there was a post on maemo-developers that had hildon-theme-cacher/hildon-theme-tools/hildon-theme-layout-4...19:25
etrunkoinz: maybe a good idea19:27
konttori_I wonder why the decoder takes it's toll from the bitrate. If the video is decoded in the dsp, could it somehow be that the dsp can't handle streams faster than 512 at good speed? Surely that would be odd19:28
*** luogni has quit IRC19:28
*** zyxulnaga has quit IRC19:28
konttori_ssvb: You wouldn't have any insight as to what to think of this?19:29
konttori_The problem is only in the most totally changing scenes.19:31
ssvbkonttori_: N800 does not use DSP for video anymore (otherwise it would be as slow or even slower than 770), in this sense N800 works in the same way as MPlayer - ARM is used for decoding video, DSP is used for decoding audio19:31
konttori_I have my test scene in sushine trailer seconds 30-40. Scene changes totally from white to black in one frame19:31
konttori_ahh.. that's good to hear19:31
konttori_but then, why would the bitrate affect it so much?19:32
ssvbkonttori_: looks like the built-in mpeg4 video decoder is slow19:32
konttori_Yeah. I guess that's the only conclusion.19:33
*** dushko has joined #maemo19:33
ssvbkonttori_: mplayer suffers more from memory bandwidth and Xv performance, so video resolution is critical for it, but high bitrate is much lesser problem19:34
konttori_Ahh... @ 18 fps it can JUST handle the fast changing scene @ 1024 kbps. I think I'll set it to stone now.19:34
ssvbkonttori_: probably built-in player suffers from both19:34
*** tchan has quit IRC19:39
*** polpak has joined #maemo19:41
*** xan has joined #maemo19:46
*** jpetersen_ has joined #maemo19:50
*** jpetersen has quit IRC19:50
*** bjv has joined #maemo19:51
*** Disconnect has quit IRC19:51
bjvx forwarding, what kind of stuff needs unlocking on the 770?19:52
*** RealNitro has joined #maemo19:53
bjvsshd_config changed from forwarding no to yes, 770 doesnt have xhost though?19:53
*** zulla has quit IRC19:53
mgedminI think you're right19:55
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo19:56
unique311running, gimp on n80019:58
unique311i'm thinking all that needs to be done is packaging it..19:58
* konttori_ got the joost invitation.19:58
konttori_unique311: Great!19:58
bjvoic. xauth does not even run on the 770, yet19:59
*** greentux has quit IRC19:59
unique311Pupnik, the airbrush works smooth19:59
konttori_unique311: any screenshots?20:00
unique311window switching is ok20:00
unique311well i'm going to do a quick video of it..and up it to youtube.20:00
*** greentux has joined #maemo20:01
*** kender has quit IRC20:10
konttori_unique311: Any chance you could add the brush controls statically on the left side of the screen?20:13
*** jjo has quit IRC20:13
*** jjo__ has joined #maemo20:13
*** _follower_ has quit IRC20:14
*** mikemorrison has quit IRC20:14
*** zyxulnaga has joined #maemo20:19
* konttori_ reboots to windows to make a installer for MC1.4220:19
*** konttori_ has quit IRC20:20
*** bjv has quit IRC20:21
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo20:27
*** felipec has quit IRC20:30
Pupnikssvb: that's interesting - I wonder if SDL_HWSURFACE can make use of that20:30
*** zyxulnag1 has quit IRC20:31
*** tchan has joined #maemo20:36
*** bilboed has quit IRC20:36
*** zyxulnag1 has joined #maemo20:38
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo20:39
*** Sonej has joined #maemo20:39
ssvbPupnik: I'm sure SDL can't use hardware capabilities efficiently, it is ordinary SDL compiled for x1120:42
revwhat's up with this new "intel umpc" thing? some of the screenshots look just like maemo/hildon20:50
*** jkridner has joined #maemo20:50
revbut others completely different20:50
jkridnerthink those things will still cost an arm and a leg like current UMPCs?20:51
revi hope not20:52
revno clue though, intel just has some ref designs20:52
revi wouldn't mind a bigger device than my N800- for me, something the size of a newton is just about perfect, though modernized, thinner, etc20:52
revbut the umpcs are HUGE20:52
revway thicker and heavier than a newton20:53
tigertand cost insanely much20:53
*** zyxulnaga has quit IRC20:53
jkridnerpersonally, I think the PSP size is nice, but with the N800 screen. :)20:53
Pupnikif i won the lottery, i'd produce a replacement clamshell cover that's wider and has dpad on left, buttons on right and bluetooth20:55
Pupnikbut im being a nerd20:55
revi'd lovea clamshell too20:55
* konttori_ updated media converter:
revbasically, a sigmarion 3 with a convertible swivel screen would be perfect for me20:55
*** ||cw has quit IRC20:55
revthe sigmarion 3 is a jp-only wince device, sort of a jornada 720 successor20:55
revit's awesome20:55
jkridnerI totally agree with the buttons on the right thought.  I've had my N800 for about 10 days now and that would be #1 for me.20:55
revgotta run20:56
*** rev has quit IRC20:56
jkridnerpupnik: for bluetooth, I assume you mean A2DP?20:56
jkridner(ie., headphones)20:56
mgedminbuttons on the right += 120:56
konttori_ssvb: I wonder if someone could do some small optimizations to SDL, like optimizing blitting and using the efficient memcopy, mem move and stuff for compiling it.20:56
mgedminactually, I'd like the same set of buttons on both sides20:56
Pupnikno the buttons and gaming dpad would communicate to the nokia via bluetooth20:56
*** buck68 has left #maemo20:57
* konttori_ also agrees that at least one button on the right would make a big difference to usability. And PROPER d-pad.20:57
jkridnerwhat is a dpad?20:57
konttori_direction pad20:58
konttori_up down, left right.20:58
Pupnikactually there's a bluetooth gamepad sold for cellphones - you could crack that open, buy a replacement aluminum clamshell from nokia (i think) epoxy the buttons to the left and right of the clamshell with a handmade cover20:58
mgedminwhat's proper?20:58
mgedminfor dpads20:58
jkridnerlike the one that is there now?20:58
konttori_one that doesn't have button in the middle and which supports 2 simultaneous direction presses20:58
Piothe current one is def. not gaming friendly20:58
mgedminthe whole device is not very gaming friendly...20:58
Pupnikthe current dpad has good tactile feedback for clicky movement, but it's not usable for fast games20:58
*** jamey has joined #maemo20:59
*** jamey_ has joined #maemo20:59
mgedminhm... maybe a new device: N-gage 80020:59
ssvbkonttori_: optimizing SDL falls into the category of platform level hacking, which seems to be currently entirely monopolized by Nokia20:59
Pupniki suppose i could buy a psp or gp2x, but then i'd have two devices in my pocket20:59
konttori_Pupnik: I tried playing chrono a bit with it and it totally killed my hand. I think 770s dpad was a bit better20:59
mgedminmaemo-powered, with working 3D accel20:59
konttori_I don't think a dpad would be too much to ask from nokia21:00
Pupnikkonttori_: oh i have a faster snes9x now if anyone wants to play with it21:00
konttori_They should put good dpads to their mobile phones as well.21:00
partkonttori_: seems like it is21:00
ssvbkonttori_: now as Nokia 770 is 'free', maybe something could be done optimizing its core components21:00
jkridnerI want my N800 to replace my GP2X, but the lack of gaming controls kills that.  I love the screen and everything else about the N800 better than the GP2X, but the lack of right hand controls is a killer.21:00
konttori_Even the original ngages dpad was almost ok, even though it had the middle button functionality21:00
*** bergie has joined #maemo21:00
mgedminthe middle-button is very useful for non-gaming21:01
mgedminI wouldn't want to lose it21:01
konttori_Pupnik: Cool. Can you add a quick opener app that would allow you to choose rom ?21:01
konttori_I can send you the conf file if you still need it21:01
*** behdad has quit IRC21:02
jkridneranyone started to port Democracy TV Player?21:02
Pupnikkonttori_: i am working on a version that will be about 2-3 times faster21:02
jkridnerI just got my scratchbox installed and I've found there are a ton of dependencies for Democracy.21:02
jameydoes anyone have oprofile running on N800?21:02
*** garrett has joined #maemo21:03
*** mgedmin has quit IRC21:03
*** dieguito-zzz has joined #maemo21:08
unique311sorry bout the music..
koenjamey: did you see ?21:11
Pupnikkoen, jamey i'd be interested in using that sometime soon - what needs to run on the nokia to get the profiling output?21:13
Pupnik  <- ?21:14
bill20r3unique: that's pretty cool.21:16
bill20r3p.s. tripod(!)21:16
bill20r3what theme is that?21:17
jameyPupnik, need a kernel built with CONFIG_PROFILING and CONFIG_OPROFILE (which can be a module)21:18
jameyplus need oprofile tools21:18
jameyI have kernel and modules built but am having trouble updating initsf21:18
jameyinitfs that is21:18
Pupnikheh unique311 that's really fast!21:19
Pupnikand the tools layout is great!21:19
Tak|workPupnik: hit me21:19
Tak|workkonttori: btw, n800 seems to support simultaneous button presses21:19
PupnikTak|work: snes 1.4 or the uqm pixeldoubling source?21:20
Tak|workwhy not both21:20
*** bilboed has joined #maemo21:22
konttori_Tak: cool. Very cool indeed.21:23
konttori_I wonder if one might be able to just add something on top of the current dpad and make it work21:24
*** dientespodridos has quit IRC21:24
partkonttori_: would be easier to replace the buttons21:26
*** bedboi has quit IRC21:28
partkonttori_: removing the metal case on the n800 is easy, getting replacement buttons would be a bit more difficult21:28
konttori_true. Anyway, I wouldn't do it and 99.9% os n800 owners wouldn't do it, so we can just hope that the next device will inherit rocker design from n-gage, not 613121:29
konttori_Hey, does anyone know how I could get id3demux component for gstreamer?21:31
konttori_I'm still having problems playing mp3 files that have covers in their id3 tags21:31
konttori_Any ideas for that would also be helpfull21:32
konttori_Here's an example file:
konttori_any gstream call that can play this file would be much appreciated. Default player is able to play it, so I would imagine that the default configuration has all it takes to play it.21:33
konttori_But I have limite knowledge of gstreamer framework21:33
konttori_id3demux is a thing that has been suggested, but I'm unable to find it, so can't test it myself21:34
*** pleemans has joined #maemo21:34
*** skallen has joined #maemo21:40
*** florian has quit IRC21:45
*** ||cw has joined #maemo21:46
*** slomo_ has quit IRC21:51
*** behdad has joined #maemo21:54
*** dolske has quit IRC22:00
*** snorkelyd has quit IRC22:04
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo22:05
onionkonttori_: this pipeline works gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/media/mmc1/temp/juanes.mp3 ! id3lib  ! dspmp3sink22:06
*** xharada has joined #maemo22:07
onionkonttori_: np22:08
*** chelli has joined #maemo22:08
*** dushko has quit IRC22:18
*** sbaturzio has joined #maemo22:21
*** jluisn has quit IRC22:22
*** rodarvus has quit IRC22:23
*** dolske has joined #maemo22:24
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo22:28
*** dis has joined #maemo22:34
*** Disconnect has quit IRC22:37
*** dis is now known as Disconnect22:37
*** dieguito-zzz is now known as dieguito22:41
*** ssvb has quit IRC22:45
*** alump_ has joined #maemo22:47
*** alump has quit IRC22:47
*** philn_ has joined #maemo22:50
*** philn|home has quit IRC23:01
*** Sonej^ has joined #maemo23:04
*** Sonej has quit IRC23:04
*** kb7sqi has quit IRC23:05
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC23:06
|tbb|whtat is that orb thing good for23:07
*** pleemans has quit IRC23:09
*** buck68 has joined #maemo23:09
*** unique311_ has joined #maemo23:10
*** unique311 has quit IRC23:10
*** zwnj has joined #maemo23:10
jameylater all23:11
*** jamey has quit IRC23:11
*** spect has joined #maemo23:12
*** nhdezoito_adrian has joined #maemo23:14
*** philn|home has joined #maemo23:22
*** frade has joined #maemo23:24
*** philn_ has quit IRC23:25
*** Disconnect has quit IRC23:26
*** fab has joined #maemo23:29
*** konttori_ has quit IRC23:38
*** garrett has quit IRC23:43
*** dolske_ has joined #maemo23:46
*** dolske has quit IRC23:52
*** skallen has quit IRC23:53
*** chelli has quit IRC23:56
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo23:57

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!