IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-04-14

konttori_If anyone has interest in seeing some spectacular vide on their N800 (that has the latest firmware), check this out:
konttori_10 MB.00:04
tigertkonttori_: wow00:05
tigertkonttori_: the one released a bit ago, or did we release a new one? :)00:05
konttori_This is a new one00:05
konttori_Oh, this is the old trailer00:05
konttori_But the quality is ... spectacular00:06
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tigertkonttori_: will have to try00:06
tigertI have been lazy to flash even though I have access to our internal images00:06
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tigertyou mean the march 23 image?00:06
konttori_Umm.. yeah00:06
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konttori_ok, it's not smooth like the 400x240 video is, but that trailer is the worst stuff you can throw at a video player.00:09
konttori_Heady decoding, with stuff changing at a rapid pace all over the image.00:09
tigerthows j00t00b?00:09
maddlerhi all!00:10
maddlerhui tigert!00:10
tigerthui :)00:10
konttori_For action movie, I would always choose 400x240 instead of that, but for pretty much everything else, I might be tempted to go for the HD road.00:10
konttori_I'll test jootoob00:10
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maddlerkonttori_: any new bug to reproduce? :D00:10
konttori_Well, seems like mp3s with artwork in the id3 tags are causing crash00:12
maddleroh... I had a couple crashes today... but hadn't time to investigate...00:12
maddlerI'll try to give it a look as soon as I'll finish to restore my wife's PC...00:13
maddlerdamn windows boxes!00:13
konttori_juutuub is going 3 fps.00:14
konttori_So, much faster slideshow00:14
konttori_In 80% video, it's 4 fps00:14
konttori_maybe more. could be almost 7 some times.00:15
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konttori_Oh, it was more related to buffering00:15
konttori_I'd say it's many times better than before. And very close to being perfectly fine.00:17
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konttori_I'll probably try to release an updated version of media converter tomorrow. Just checking the resolutions now. 400x240 seems to work perfectly.00:20
konttori_maddler: Thanks for the testing. If you can verify that certain mp3s crash it, it would be great.00:22
konttori_At some point, mp3s with id3 v1 and id3 v2 in the same file, crashed it.00:22
konttori_I'm not sure if that's still the case. I hope not00:22
maddlerok... :)00:23
maddlerwill you then send me a free copy of MediaCenter? :DDDDDDDDDD00:23
tigertkonttori_: try "low quality"00:24
tigertthat usually also helps00:24
maddleroh... today at office... an idiot was asking me a Linux's keygen!!!00:24
tigertbut the thing is, I think the flash plugin doesnt use xvideo visual like the media player does00:24
tigertmaddler: HAHA00:25
maddlerhehehe... yeah... as well as an Openoffice serial...00:25
maddleryou know...00:25
tigertlinux is becoming mainstream clearly :)00:25
maddlerdamn... why the hell these guys don't even try to /etc/init.d/brain start?!00:25
maddlerhahahaha... indeed...00:25
konttori_tigert: I tried that as well, but it didn't help much.00:26
maddleroh... tigert... maybe you can help me...00:26
maddlerany idea of which font is used for "maemo"?00:27
maddlerI'm working on maemo flyer...00:27
maddlerthe closer one I found is Gazette00:27
maddlervery very close... but not identical...00:27
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tigertthe logo is going to change00:28
konttori_maddler: I'll send you an press evaluation copy of media center. But beware, it has got secret watermarks in the code that will identify you if you leak it to torrent sites.00:28
tigerta bit00:28
tigertnot much00:28
tigertbut enough to screw you with the font choice :P00:28
tigertyou can see the one on my flickr00:28
tigertor do you mean just that one?00:28
maddlerkonttori_: damn! :DDDDD00:28
maddlerjust that one...00:29
tigertmaddler: 00:25 < maddler> damn... why the hell these guys don't even try to00:29
tigert                 /etc/init.d/brain start?!00:29
maddlerif it will remain the same...00:29
tigertmaddler: maybe he didnt succeed finding its serial yet?00:29
maddlertigert: hahahaha... yes!00:29
tigertmaddler: mail quim00:30
tigertand maybe he can poke the people who are enjoying logo bureaucracy and politics whether you could have the svg00:30
maddlerno... no need... I'll keep using Gazette as a placeholder...00:30
tigertuse that for now00:30
tigertbut poke quim so you get the right one eventually00:30
maddlerit's fine for now...00:31
maddlerwouldn't be so nice to have an official flyer with a messed logo... ;)00:31
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konttori_By the way, who's quim?00:32
maddleran AI00:34
maddlerhe's controlling our lifes...00:34
maddlerno escape!00:34
maddlerquim is maemo00:35
maddlerquim is maemo's product manager00:35
tigertkonttori_: Quim Gil00:37
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tigertkonttori_: lets do lunch with him next week?00:38
konttori_Why not! Sounds like a great idea!00:38
konttori_Tuesday fine?00:38
tigerthm, need to check00:38
tigertlemme mail you both00:38
tigertwhat was your email?00:39
tigertspam-encoded :)00:39
tigertargh, too late00:39
konttori_Oh well, it's everywhere anyway00:39
maddleroh... your pizzas are still waiting! :DDDDD00:39
konttori_and besides, google has great spam filtering00:40
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Tak|workyeah, I haven't had an issue with spam on gmail00:41
tigertkonttori_: it does truly00:41
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tigertI get a lot of spam to gmail already00:41
tigertbut it goes to spam bin 99%00:41
* konttori_ tried watching video on dailymotion. Too slow to watch00:42
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maddlertimeless: I'm having some fun playing with dspam...00:43
maddlerzdziarski did a pretty good job...00:43
konttori_Leopard UI shots:
tigertfinnish lesson of the day00:46
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tigert"Men always give up. I will never give up!"00:46
konttori_Looks like they went (at least for that build) for the plastic approach they've used in itunes00:46
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konttori_or they are fakes00:48
* tigert looks00:49
konttori_Probably they are just preparing for the final theme and using that as a placeholder to see that everything has changed as they were supposed to00:50
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konttori_Cool. Just verified again that the mp3s with cover art in id3, crash the uk mp00:53
konttori_but they don't crash the internal media player00:54
konttori_which leads me to think that I might be able to call the gstreamer somehow differently and get it to play that music.00:54
maddlerand I just verified that I need to install from scratch my wife's PC!00:55
konttori_maddler: No!00:56
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maddlerafter an hour spent trying to figure what went wrong...01:04
maddlerI surrender...01:04
maddlersome program simply won't start... and admins aren't really admins... and programs can't be uninstalled... and other amenities like that...01:05
maddlerfaster to kill it than to try to understand...01:05
maddlerI should give a try to cedega...01:05
maddlersince my {wife|daughter} are using that computer to play games mostly...01:06
maddleror at least that's the only reason to have that... uh... O.S.(?!)01:06
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tigertuse some hd restore util like norton ghost?01:08
tigertto just save a snapshot of the disk when you have installed it once01:08
konttori_It's pretty fast to install xp anyway, so, why not.01:08
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konttori_Maybe you don't even have to format the disk01:09
konttori_When all's done, just move the user profiles back01:09
maddlerright... the PITA is installing the _whole_ stuff...01:09
maddlernot just winblows...01:09
maddlertigert: btw... I was playing with clonezilla today... veeery nice stuff...01:10
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tigertoh, nice01:10
maddlerlinux based alternative to nortob ghost...01:10
maddlerI needed that since NG wasn't working with a couple win 2k3 servers...01:11
maddlerand I needed to backup them...01:11
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maddlerI mounted a remote FS over SSH... and saved the backup there...01:12
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maddlera 5GB filesystem... saved to a 2.8GB Bz2 remote image01:13
maddlerit allows to only save used slices01:13
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maddlerso... I'm going to create a backup of my laptop right before trying ubuntu 7.04 ;)01:14
konttori_Oh yeah, I wanted to ask some time when I got the ukmp out for the first times on you thoughts on how to improve the UI, but now I'm kinda bound to get it out pretty soon, so can't do anymore big changes01:14
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maddlerjust in case the upgrade won't work as expected... ;)01:14
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maddlerkonttori_: I have a copuple suggestions... saving them for later... :)01:15
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maddlera "search" box would be kinda nice...01:16
maddleras well as bookmarks...01:16
maddleror playlists... :)01:16
maddleror a "DESTROY WINDOWS" button...01:17
konttori_Oh. Really good ideas. I'll just patch them in and send you a test cop in a sec.01:17
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maddlerok... what about a "request coffe" button as well?01:23
maddleror "cold beer" perhaps...01:23
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konttori_maddler: Nice ;)01:31
* konttori_ has to go to bed now. 01:32
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maddlerok... ordered a new 160GB Sata2 HD...01:33
maddlersince I have to reinstall... sounds like a nice chance to upgrade the disks as well...01:33
maddlerdamn...  today I was thinking at when I was a child and RAM prices...01:34
maddleras well as disks sizes...01:35
maddlerand... damn... I realized I'm getting OLD!!!01:35
maddlerI still remember the feeling of my very first 3.5" floppy...01:36
maddlerfolks... it was science fiction coming reality!!!01:36
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maddlerhave you ever tried carrying a 5.25" floppy in your pocket?! ;)01:37
maddlernot to talk about 10"!01:37
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nomismaddler: I know about 8" floppies. 10" are new to me...  :)01:43
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maddlernomis: hahaha... true... :DDDDD01:56
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maddlerI said... I'm getting OLD!01:56
maddlermy memories are vanishing!01:56
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maddlerok... time to hit the bed...02:01
maddlernight all...02:01
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vrcngtrxhello, is anyone here today?03:11
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neostriderhello folks!03:54
neostrideranyone from canada?03:54
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neostriderwhat province you live on?03:59
neostriderdo you like it?04:00
neostriderim planning to do a trip to toronto...04:00
neostriderand...if I a n800 ;-)04:01
Ahpucyes i like it, its a great place to live04:01
neostriderand its a good place to buy a n800? ;-P04:01
Ahpuci don't knw where they are being  sold in toronto. i bought mine from the states just before nokia made the announcement04:03
Ahpucthat is what i get for being impatient04:04
neostridertiger direct got it04:04
neostriderbut Im from Brazil. I dont know much about that store04:05
neostriderit is a physical store?04:05
neostrideris there any good chat portal for me to talk  to canadian people?04:06
neostriderspecially from toronto04:06
Ahpucthey do have several stores but they might not carry it in their stores, i would email them to ask04:07
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Ahpucidk, try #toronto04:07
neostridergreat...I will email them04:08
neostriderbut there is any other store to look into?04:09
Ahpucnot that i know of sorry04:09
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neostriderwell, thanks =-D04:15
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Markov_i just installed GoBan770 on my n800, but it doesn't appear to have the gnu go automaton with it05:41
Markov_am i missing something?05:41
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srihow do I setup a scratchbox devel environment for maemo? is there a url I can go to?06:10
sribetter yet, is there a vmware appliance for maemo (that doesn't use edgy)06:11
neostridersri..i guess there is a liveCD06:16
neostridergentoo based i guess...06:16
neostridermaybe you can use qemu06:16
srineostrider: I have no problem using scratchbox, but goign through the website doesn't really give me decent instructions.06:19
neostridertry the wiki06:19
neostriderits the best06:19
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srineostrider: thanks :)06:24
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srihrm.. pretty easy to do the SDK stuff.. download one file and let it do the work.06:40
neostridermy SDK installation is from the time we had to do lots of stuff to configure it06:42
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neostriderbye fellows07:17
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konttori_anyone here who knows anything about the gstreamer in n800/770?09:41
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polpakkonttori_ I wish09:59
polpakkonttori_ trying to develop a video app?09:59
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Bighugowho does know what OSSO means?10:01
Bighugoi found many package have postfix "osso"10:03
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Bighugoany difference?10:03
inzIt's the same OSSO as mentioned on the page.10:04
Bighugosuch as farsight_0.1.4-0osso7.tar.gz10:05
Bighugoany difference between farsigight_0.1.4.tar.gz and it?10:05
Bighugodoes it mean farsight has been modified for OSSO?10:06
inzby OSSO10:06
Bighugowhy these library need modification?10:06
Bighugowhat is modified?10:06
inzYou could get both and try diff to see the difference.10:07
Bighugoactually, i don't have code now10:08
konttori_polpak: Sounds great.10:08
konttori_polpak: looks like this might be of interest to you:
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konttori_polpak: oh, that was a question. Sorry. Nope, trying to get uk mp playing also mp3s with album covers in the id3 tags10:11
konttori_Looking to know on how the default player is able to play those songs, but ukmp isn't10:11
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Bighugothen what does the "7" of "0oss7" mean?10:19
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inzBighugo, it's just a revision number10:26
BighugoI just checked package lsof10:27
Bighugoi didn't find any code change10:27
Bighugobut there a new directory "debian"10:27
inzSometimes it may just be the debian packaging.10:28
BighugoI found "  * Removed 10 legally problematic files.10:29
Bighugoin Changelog10:29
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CountDownI'm trying to stream video from the N800 to a media server using gstreamer, but when I try to run the pipeline through gst-launch I get an "erroneous pipeline: no element 'ffenc_mpeg4'" warning.  Is ffenc_mpeg4 available for Maemo?  I've already downloaded and installed all the gstreamer packages I could find.10:39
konttori_CountDown: This *might* help:
CountDownkonttori: Thanks... I'll check it out.10:41
CountDownkonttori: This looks like a patch submission for the python bindings to gstreamer.  Did you see something in particular?10:43
konttori_just thought that the video parts might contain something of interest10:44
konttori_Will non-streamed version of the same video play on the device?10:45
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CountDownkonttori: Ah.  No, I'm trying to stream live video from a web camera.10:47
konttori_ahh... was it so that the internal n800 camera uses h263? If so, perhaps you should try that one?10:48
CountDownYep, that's the one.  I tried ffenc_h263, but had the same problem.  Perhaps it's called something else?10:50
konttori_Saw this somewhere: gst-launch-0.8 udpsrc | video/x-h263 | dspmpeg4sink10:54
konttori_CountDown: check this out:
konttori_so, it was: ffdec_h26310:57
CountDownAh, perhaps I need ffenc_h263p.10:58
CountDownI'm trying to use my device as a server, so I'm interested in the encoding.10:58
konttori_on the server end, yeah, perhaps the h263p.10:58
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CountDownSeems that I don't have that either.11:00
konttori_So, are you streaming from n800 or to n800?11:01
koenusing the 770 makes me feel like a zaurus user11:02
koenspending hours and hours to find a missing deb and the only solution is "flash a new firmware"11:02
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CountDownkonttori: From the N800 to a Mac OS Xserve.11:08
CountDownkoen: what are you looking for?11:08
koenjust found it11:09
* koen wonders why the forum dude advised a reflash11:09
dieguitoweird question: my n800 has this sticker half transparent, half silver, it resembles a "pull here to remove plastic from screen" sticker, is that the purpose?11:11
CountDownIt's there to pull off.11:14
dieguitothen i guess it will stay there some more days...11:15
dieguitoi want to buy those screen protecting stickers11:15
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konttori_dieguito: Also, remove the screen protection sticker from the screen if you want less glare from the screen11:34
konttori_There is one by default on n80011:34
konttori_Look at the very top of the screen, around middle and you'll see the edge of the sticker11:34
dieguitoyes i've noted there's a sticker over the screen11:35
dieguitoi don't want to remove it11:35
dieguitoi don't notice the glare nor i have a spare protection sticker to put11:35
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dieguitothat's why i was wondering if the silver sticker will remove the protection sticker11:35
dieguitobecause it's starting to get in the way11:35
CountDownIt's very gratifying to remove the sticker.11:36
CountDownNo, removing the silver sticker doesn't remove the screen protector sticker.11:37
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dieguitoCountDown: then what's the purpose of it O_o?11:46
CountDownI have no idea.  That's why I tore it off.11:47
dieguitoah another silly one, the headphones has this "box" in the middle of the cable, what is it for? and why is one of the cables longer than the other11:49
JussiPA) microphone B) for hanging it behind your neck11:51
dieguitoi see11:52
dieguitoanother one11:52
dieguitois it normal that my camera grabs a confetti like image?11:52
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konttori_I'm having trouble running gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc /media/mmc2/Juanes.mp3  ! dspmp3sink13:08
konttori_This file contains cover art in the id3 tags. robtaylor suggested that I use id3demuxer to sort it out, but he seems to be away and I'm unable to find the demuxer13:08
konttori_I tried the following: gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc /media/mmc2/Juanes.mp3  ! id3demux  ! dspmp3sink13:09
konttori_but I get errorenous pipeline: no element id3demux.13:09
konttori_So, I tried adding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good, but apparently it isn't there either.13:10
konttori_can anybody point me to a direction that might help me play such a file?13:10
maddlerno clue... :(13:15
konttori_Seems like the default player is able to play such files. Any idea on how to get the calls that that app makes?13:16
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melmothI try to nstall maemo 3.1 in a etch (in a xen session)...I experience the traditionnal 'apt-get' cannot resolve name...13:40
melmothwget can resolve name, there is a /etc/resolv.conf and nsswtich.conf mention dns for hosts13:40
melmothany idea ?13:40
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melmothcrap i had to change /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf as well as the one in the scratchbox environment13:54
melmoththat did the trick13:54
melmoth\o/ i have a maemo development environment working in a xen image \o/13:59
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dieguito-zzzwhy scratchbox has a x86 and arm target15:06
melmothone to develop locally, and one to cross compile for the n80015:06
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maddler /wg 2217:20
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Pupnik_you know what would be nice?  being able to transfer pics/films from digital cameras to 770/80017:32
Pupnik_i think all you'd need is the linux program digikam and a usb-cable with 5v external power17:33
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zuhOr just put the mmc/sd card from the camera in to the device ;)18:03
`0660that is so much easier18:06
zuhAlthough, specially with 770 the amount of available memory will pretty much limit what you can do with the full-size images18:13
zuh(if manipulating them is the target)18:14
Pupnik_i was thinking of viewing with gqview and movies with mplayer18:16
Pupnik_obviously, with the 770 you can't transfer pics if you've just stuck the cameras mmc card in there18:16
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glasswell, i'd imagine you'd be transferring them over the network rather than just copying from one card to another18:17
Pupnik_ right, but camera has no wlan18:18
Pupnik_so usb=network18:18
glassyes, but you'd stick the mmc into the 770 and upload them then18:18
Pupnik_heh.. no i have gqview and mplayer *on* the 770 :)18:18
Pupnik_the 770 makes a nicer presenter than the camera display18:19
glassbrowsing photos from phones is nice18:19
Pupnik_e.g. you're on the road, take snaps and films, then use 770 to show them to folks18:19
sxpertpity the bluetooth thing is sooo slow18:19
sxperttakes a good 30 seconds to grab a pic from the phone18:20
Pupnik_digikam: Unmet build dependencies: kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.5.1-3) libexif-dev (>> 0.6.9) libgphoto2-2-dev libkipi0-dev libsqlite3-dev libexiv2-dev (>= 0.12) liblcms1-dev libkexiv2-dev libjasper-1.701-dev | libjasper-dev18:22
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Pupnik_a native maemo app would probably just need libgphoto2-dev18:23
`0660how about gthumb?18:25
`0660that's at least what i use on the desktop and it does the job very well18:26
`0660or should it only be used to download the pics?18:26
`0660there's a command line client in gphoto2 which will do that job just fine18:27
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sylvanthishello, i've got a question, i just bought a nokia N800, and i was wondering if the nokia uses the internal memory (256) or the microsd (128) as ram, or doesn't it use it and can i use them both for 100% ?18:50
sylvanthisalso how can i install bash on my nokia N800?? the download link isn't active :S18:52
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sylvanthisis nobody active in this channel??18:54
trenkasylvanthis: n800 uses 128M sdram and 256 onenand18:54
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Pupnikthe ram is seperate from the flash18:55
sylvanthisok, so i can't use the sdram for 100%, because then the nokia can't run normally anymore?18:55
`0660but you always add swap18:56
Robot101sylvanthis: it doesn't use it as RAM, it uses it to store the OS18:56
Pupnikwhat Robot101 said18:57
sylvanthisthe 256 that is? because the 128 was empty when i got it18:57
Robot101or rather, the OS is stored on the internal NAND, and parts are loaded into the RAM when it's running18:57
Robot101the mini SD is for your stuff18:57
`0660mini sd is extra18:57
Robot101you can put an internal SD, and an external SD, each with 2G18:57
sylvanthisok, so i shouldnt fill the 256 internall one fully?18:57
`0660i don't even have it in my n80018:57
Pupniksylvanthis: the internal 256 is not RAM18:57
Pupnikit is like a hard drive18:58
`0660filling the internal 256 drive would be the same as filling up your c drive18:58
Robot101it stores the OS and your settings, and anything you store there, but you can also store stuff on the two SD slots18:58
sylvanthisok, but if i fill both to like 98%, won't my nokia have ram problems?18:59
Robot101neither of them are RAM18:59
sylvanthis(i'm really a newby)18:59
sylvanthisok, then how does it use ram?18:59
sylvanthisis that another chip that we can't touch?18:59
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Robot101the programs which are running are stored in RAM18:59
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sylvanthisyes, like a computer18:59
Robot101you can't normally store files there and "fill" it19:00
sylvanthisbut we can't store our data (with a filesystem on it) in ram?19:00
sylvanthisahhhh thnx19:00
`0660exactly like a computer19:00
Robot101it fills up when you more programs19:00
sylvanthisi finally get it19:00
sylvanthisbecause i thought it was really strange, for the nokia, to resize filesystem on demand, and allocating ram there19:00
`0660actually you can store a file system in the ram :P19:00
Robot101you /can/ use it to store files, but it's a bit daft because they will go away when you turn it off :)19:00
sylvanthisyes i know :P19:00
sylvanthiswith tmpfs right?19:01
Robot101yeah, but that's not really useful, especially when you have so little RAM19:01
sylvanthisbut now my other question? how do i get bash on it?19:01
Robot101it's already there19:01
sylvanthisindeed :|19:01
sylvanthishow can i access it?19:01
Robot101you need a terminal though, install osso-xterm from the maemo repository19:01
sylvanthisahh ok :D19:01
sylvanthislinux without bash would be a little hard, wouldn't it, with all the init scripts and all :X19:02
sylvanthisi guess i need to think next time :)19:02
Pupnikbash is a user-shell19:03
`0660you must be talking about shell19:03
sylvanthisi guess19:03
sylvanthisso the init scripts don't have #!/bin/bash19:04
`0660in n800 ash is used as the default shell instead of bash19:04
sylvanthisbut something else19:04
sylvanthisnever heard of it :P19:04
`0660usually init scripts use #!/bin/sh anyway19:04
sylvanthisbut /bin/sh is a symlink to /bin/bash19:04
sylvanthison my system at least19:04
`0660there are so many different shells out there19:04
Robot101sylvanthis: it can be any posix shell, ubuntu uses dash for example19:04
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sylvanthisreally? is it a lot like bash?19:06
sylvanthis^^ ty19:06
sylvanthisi gotto go eat :S19:06
sylvanthisty a lot guys for helping me out!!19:06
sylvanthis(or girls) :P19:06
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Pupnikwhat's the absolute fastest way to blit to the 770 screen?19:09
Pupnikthere's a vague question19:10
Pupnikok penguinbait has the coolest nokia desktop i've seen19:12
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tigertdieguito-zzz: you've got mail19:49
tigertPupnik: most confusing at least :)19:49
sxperttigert, AOL-legal is all over you :d19:50
tigertsxpert: haha19:50
tigertsxpert: would be nice to make N800 / 770's into mobile OSM plotters19:50
tigertdunno who would want to hack some python for this19:50
tigertjust a simple gui: "big road"... "small road".. type road name19:50
tigertand then just walk/drive the line19:51
tigertI think it would be fun19:51
tigertand auto-upload to osm19:51
sxperttigert, well, look at trimble's stuff for UI ideas19:51
Pupniki wish nokia would make something like the iphone, but with maemo and the 800x480 screen19:51
sxpertthey make those integrated GPS/PDA with proprietary software that does that19:52
sxpertused by pro-surveyors. costs an arm and a leg19:52
glassPupnik: i'd rather have it have an open os and 3g19:52
Pupnikglass, maemo not open enough for you?19:52
tigertsxpert: right19:52
glassopen os meaning something to at least along the lines of symbian as far as 3rd party apps go, preferably maemo19:52
glassPupnik: yes but it wouldn't be iphone like then19:53
sxpertI wish nokia would just stop using this malevolent thing called symbian in their phones.19:53
sxpertit's evil19:53
glasstell me about it19:53
Pupnikisn't symbian derived from the Psion OS?19:53
* glass does symbian dev for living19:53
glassepoc yes..19:53
Pupniki thought that was really good :/19:54
glassstill, it's the most open as far as wide deployment and lowish level access goes in phones19:54
glassPupnik: well, since then they just kept adding layers and layers and layers..19:54
glasswell, just plain old shit really19:54
`0660i feel sorry for you glass :)19:55
glassmotos linux phones ain't no fun for example because you don't get to do native apps so19:55
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glass0660: well, it's a living and looks good in cv19:55
Pupniki'd like to program for portable devices for a living19:55
sxpertglass, eagerly waiting for the openmoko here19:55
glassyeah that should be intresting19:56
glasseven then though, the platform should be quite stable19:56
sxpertalready have an idea for a GPS app, related to a friends cargo transportation business19:56
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glassbut for next three years, symbian is what i'm stuck with i'm afraid19:57
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glassi'd rather write j2me though, but with my exp i wouldn't probably get a nice job at that19:57
sxpertwhat sort of symbian stuff do you do ?19:58
glassmmf plugin stuff currently..19:59
glass..the security shit really sucks in v919:59
sxpertheard about it19:59
glasstook a long time to get certs19:59
sxpertcerts are way too expensive19:59
glassit's not just that, but getting them..20:00
glassthe drm cert especially20:00
sxperthah... well, DRM being useless by design...20:01
Pupniki'd like to see less pirated warez out there, if that were possible20:01
sxpertPupnik, ain't gonna happen20:02
Pupnika) commercial devs would get paid and b) open source would get a boost20:02
glassand large scale (thousands and thousands) signing of passive content even is currently in a sucky state as far as symbiansigned goes20:03
glassetc etc etc etc20:03
Pupniki lectured at a school and all the kidz were like 'why do i need open-source? i gotz all teh warez!"20:03
glassi could bitch about symbian problems all night long :)20:03
sxpertproblem is, in a society where riches are obtained by generating bogus shortage of virtual something, you can't prevent real black market of the virtual thing to appear20:04
Pupnikwish i knew enough about symbian to be a conversational partner20:04
glassyou don't wish :)20:04
glassif you knew20:04
Pupnikright sxpert20:04
sxpertyou'd be in an institution right now20:04
glassand it hasn't really that much improved in the 4 years or so i've done this20:05
glass-> getting more booze20:05
Pupniki had a psion mx5 and netbook, and epoc seemed nice and lightweight20:05
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glassthey were best symbian/epoc devices from what i hear20:08
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glassanyways, i got into symbian because i got fed up with j2me's limitations20:09
glassfast forward some time from that i got recruited20:10
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glasson the basis of a not that great asteroid clone basically i put into freeware20:10
glasswell it was a great game of course but not that finished :)20:10
melmothoy ben20:11
Pupnikglass, were you in the TOME irc chat?20:12
Pupniksomeone there was doing an asteroid clone - thought it might be you20:13
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`0660what's the best way to disable ads from the n800 browser?20:18
`0660it kinda sucks to have them there when i'm not use to have them on desktop20:19
tigertthere is no easy way20:19
tigertI guess you could rebuild some ad-filtering proxy for armel20:19
tigertand use that?20:19
tigertsomething might exist in debian in source package form20:20
tigertso it might not be that hard20:20
tigertbut I agree20:20
tigertits a shock to visit some sites20:20
tigert<- havent seen ads in 5 years20:20
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Pupnikooh i'm gonna try porting dillo to n770 now20:21
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Pupnikis there an arm version of a newer scratchbox debian devkit? this requires 386 target
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Pupnikheh ok that would be a good project - a hildonised dillo20:48
koen_Pupnik: if you live in 1995 it might be20:54
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sxpertas long as it's only a dillo.. and not a dillo + d :D20:54
Pupniki generally find that websites that don't work with dillo are not websites i need to be interested-in20:56
Pupnikporn, hollywood and youtube20:56
Pupniknot that opera on 770 is bad, i think it's a good general purpose browser, but dillo is really really fast for my serious browsing needs20:57
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Pupnikyeah a real native hildon port of dillo is needed, the gtk2 stuff is awfully slow21:17
Pupnikif anybody really is interested in getting it going with gtk2, here's a diff
Pupnikto be patched against cvs from oct 14, 200521:18
Pupnik2003 rather21:18
Pupnik  The porting task would be far from simple (if possible at all).21:19
PupnikDillo does not only uses GTK+ for the user interface but for HTML21:19
keesjdid anybody try the windows video chat client? my parents really have a hard time finding the 'add contact'. and i don't know how to help them. i am so deperate . they said 'why not just use msn' i feel like crying21:20
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Takkeesj: can you use rdesktop and help them?21:26
keesj they said that perhaps the program was not compatible. that was just to hard for me to cope with. I am a longtime open-source user. having to explain then that its msn that is incompatible was painfull. they called me geek . i don't know what to do. does the windows client need to be more simple,?21:27
keesjtak perhaps.21:28
keesji just want them to see my 3 year old kid. i did not want to hightech them.21:29
TakI tried to get my parents to use gaim on win, too21:29
Takdidn't work out21:29
Takalthough they are using firefox finally21:29
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keesjyeas ago i tried gnomemeetting / netmeeting but that did not work either because of firewall problems. rdesktop is a good hint. they have adsl.21:31
keesjthey live in france so i can't really go there very often21:32
TakI think my parents are equivalent distance away - ~1500mi (so I guess that's like 2400km)21:32
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keesj1400 km21:36
Pupnikis there a newer devkit-debian for armel target that will let me build debhelper 5 packages?21:39
Pupnikthose all say _i38621:39
Pupnikam i not understanding something?21:39
Pupnikhi unique31121:39
jumpulayour host is x86 compatible21:39
jumpulainside scratchbox you can build armel packages21:40
unique311whats up Pupnik21:40
Pupnikok i have scratchbox-devkit-debian_1.0.7_i386.deb21:40
jumpulawhich are for the target (device)21:40
Pupnikso i install that on the host?21:40
Pupniknot inside the scratchbox target21:40
Pupnikthen i have to set up a new target and include that during setup?21:41
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jumpulathe devkit does not, however, contain debhelper 521:42
jumpulaonly debhelper 4.something21:42
Pupnikso i should forget about building anything requiring dependencies requiring debhelper 5?21:43
jumpulaat the moment, you can edit packages to build with debhelper 421:43
jumpulaor you can use robtaylor's build with newer debhelper21:44
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Disconnecton n800, is a reboot loop expected when the battery is -really- low? (run it to 'off' and then leave it a couple weeks, start charging .. it'll go ok for a while, but if you try to turn it on it'll go into a reboot loop. pulling power+battery for a few minutes doesn't solve it, it just has to reboot until the charge gets high enough for it to be happy. seemed to recover fine after that..)22:24
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maddlerqgil: hi, dude!22:33
maddlerDisconnect: dunno, or at least I never noticed such a behaviour...22:33
Disconnectthought it might have been related to the 2 4gig non-spec cards (woot a while back) but pulling them did no good22:33
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*** qgil changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | |"22:34
Disconnect(and they seem to work fine otherwise, so..)22:34
maddlerqgil: I don't think so...22:34
maddlerwops... I meant Disconnect22:34
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qgilmaddler: I thought, I haven't said anything and already someone disagrees! ;)22:35
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maddlerqgil: hahaha...22:36
maddlerqgil: you know... better to prevent than to remedy!22:36
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qgilanyobody in ELC / Santa Clara CA / San Francisco Bay Area next week?22:40
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keesjqgil: nope23:09
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qgilkeesj: i'm realizing that   :)23:11
qgilanyway, it's a good chance to meet maemos in the US  West Coast, if you happen to be around, let's meet23:12
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keesji really would have liked to meet maemopeope@fosdem23:14
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keesjperhaps next year23:14
qgilwe need to improve this face to face thing23:15
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Pupnikanything happening in europe soon?23:20
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* Pupnik studies X and fullscreen23:24
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qgilPupnik: LinuxTag in Berlin?23:29
Pupnikhmm not bad23:31
* Pupnik could make the trip as an excuse to do the LPIC 102 exam for cheap23:33
* Pupnik needs to figure out how to make a std x11 app do proper fullscreen on 77023:36
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