IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-04-10

PupnikPicoDrive_132src.tar.bz2 for gp2x here,0,0,0,46,180200:01
Tak|workheh - if it was trivial to get picodrive working, someone would have done so by now00:07
Pupnikit was trivial to get pose and uae working :)00:07
Pupnikbut shhhh :)00:08
konttoriyeah, pico is a bit of a hack and I guess the linux port is even more so.00:08
konttoriBut it's wickedly good emulator in the end. so it's worth getting hands dirty00:09
JohnMeachamhrm... I am going to get my bluetooth keyboard and my 2G SD card days before my n800 arrives... that will be vexing.00:12
JohnMeacham"I'll use them with my n770"00:12
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Pupnikanother note on those emulators, i think RPGs and strategy games would be best, given the poor design of the 770/800 buttons (for gaming)00:26
bill20r3there's nethack..00:26
Tak|workthat's been my experience00:26
bill20r3best.. game... ever!00:26
Pupniki agree, the nethack port is very nicely done... i'd like to get something similar working for TOME (tales of middle earth)00:27
Tak|workalthough onscreen buttons work ok for a lot of games that aren't total button-thrashers00:27
Pupnikyeah the fceu and xgalaga ones work ok00:27
Pupnikthanks for that tak, i will have to do something similar for UQM00:27
Tak|workit was easy to get the buttons to work00:28
Tak|workI spent countless hours getting them to be red00:28
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MagiIs there a nethack build for n800 yet?00:34
sussmanI just turned on my 800 about twenty minutes ago, for the first time00:35
sussmanis there a unix shell?  or do I have to install one?00:35
Magi*applauds* or something ;-)00:35
* sussman gets ready for a nice long night of RTFM'ing on the web00:35
MagiYeah, install it from -> applications00:35, that is00:36
sussmandirectly from within the web browser?00:36
Magijust click the "install" button00:36
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Tak|workit's funny, but I'm also serious00:37
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PupnikTak|work: it took a long time to draw the icons?  Or was there some programming problem?00:40
Tak|workfceu garbles the sdl palette in order to emulate nes palettes00:41
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Pupnikpocketsnesv6 for gp2x builds without gp2x dependency errors, btw00:47
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bill20r3anyone know if it's possible to open another osso-xterm(or tab) from the command line?01:16
unique311do it from the drop down menu01:16
bill20r3I want to script it.01:17
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Sulisdoes anyone currently present use python on maemo?01:24
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MagiI tried it once.01:26
jkusulis, I've used it01:28
Sulishave you don't anything good with it?01:28
Sulisi'm finding that several of the modules that i want aren't there...01:29
jkuthat's one problem01:29
jkuthe other (for me= was the memory footprint...01:30
jkuI wrote a little script that was supposed to stay running, had to forget python because of the memory requirements01:31
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shawarmaWhy is always dead when I reflash my n770?01:31
Sulisah, right, i don't want anything that stays running01:31
shawarmaIt's just not the same without my previous maemomapper..01:32
jkuso what modules are you missing ?01:32
SulisPyXML would be nice01:32
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derfPython was really not made for embedded devices.01:33
Sulisno, it really wasn't01:34
Sulisi don't intend to do anything computationaly intensive, just a little directory parsing and some client-server stuff01:35
Sulismaybe a gui if i can be bothered01:36
* Pupnik notes that the gp2x has an arm920t 200mhz cpu and runs pocketsnes are nearly full speed01:36
Sulisgp2x has a graphics co-processor01:37
unique311Pupnik i just compiled basilisk2 in scratchbox01:37
unique311another gp2x app01:37
Pupnikdoes it use sdl to draw?01:37
unique311k, not sure01:38
nomisMpf. GPG sometimes is a mystery to me.01:38
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skodde(wrong channel, sorry)01:44
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Pupnikripping out the pocketsnes menu right now01:48
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Pupnikdoes gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) support profiling?02:46
Pupnik-pg flag?02:47
Pupnik"ssvb keesj, you can also try to compile the game with -pg gcc option and use gprof to get statistics from running it on arm"02:48
Pupnikbut there is no gprof for maemo?02:48
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bipolarThe irc logs show that kkito hasn't been online here for 10 days. Does anyone know whats going on with him?03:06
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unique311k, i give up on basilis2...can't find a rom file...03:18
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Pupniksnes9x ... very close :)03:37
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Pupniksnes9x running now, emu options working (layers on/off)03:44
unique311share the wealth03:44
Pupniksome roms crashing03:44
Pupnikothers showing black screen but emu running03:45
Pupnikon-screen text works though (for e.g. load info etc)03:46
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Pupnikbtw free/PD snes roms here
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revURL Pupnik?04:10
Pupnikwhat url04:10
* rev has been waiting for some SNES love on his N800 for a while to play some games04:10
revPupnik: e sorry... for snes9x package, if possible04:10
* rev really wishes there was a GBA emulator that ran fast enough04:10
revthere was on CE, so it is possible on the level of hardware speed on the 770/80004:11
Pupniki don't know if i'll be able to figure out what's wrong here04:11
Pupnikyou have n800?04:11
Pupnikrev, want to try it out?04:13
unique311i also.04:13
Pupnikok test it with a simple demo, i think anything using the sdd1 will crash it04:14
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Pupnikstart it with the -ns option for no-sound04:16
gpolosorry if this is too off-topic, but, are there better options for internet table pc than n800 ?04:16
Pupnikhow much do you want to spend gpolo ?04:17
gpolowell, to be honest I dont care for the price right now04:17
gpoloI just want to know what gadgets are better than it, or if there is any04:17
revPupnik: i'd love to04:18
Pupnikgpolo: for about 1300-2000 dollars there are other good tablets04:18
revgpolo: well, what sized device do you want?04:18
gpoloI would like one that has a size like n series does04:19
revgpolo: there are full-flown windows computers that would do more, but they'll cost more but more importantly (for me) they'll be bigger, heavy, and have much worse battery life04:19
gpoloyes, I dont want one much bigger04:19
revgpolo: there are a few options in that size, but they are still bigger, thicker and worse batt life04:19
gpoloI would like one around its size04:19
gpoloI see04:19
revgpolo: search for the OQO, Sony VAIO UX-50, Sony U50, U70 and U71P04:19
revgpolo: or various UMPCs, which are a lot bigger04:20
gpolorev, do they run linux by default ?04:20
gpolono no04:20
revgpolo: no, they all run windows04:20
gpoloI dont want much bigger things04:20
revgpolo: and many of them can't run anything but windows04:20
gpoloI understand04:20
revi think you can install linux on the Sony Ux0s, but those are bigger04:20
reva good inch thick for one04:20
Pupnika used zaurus might be an alternative04:20
revand all of those things have like 1-3 hours of batt life04:20
gpoloshould I wait sometime before buying a n serie gadget ?04:20
* rev prefers the 700/N800 WAY more than all of the zaurus models he has had04:21
Pupnikrev, i think you must be the pocket gadget guru here :)04:21
revthe one good thing about the zaurus is the keyboard...04:21
Pupnikthe newer zauruses or the older ones04:22
revPupnik: yeah, it's my area of interest and expertise... i do a lot of coding for PDAs, my main project is a PDA OS/environment inthe spirit of the Newton OS written in Squeak Smalltalk ( )04:22
revPupnik: both ... i've had a SL-5500, an SL-C760 and the SL-600004:22
revall of them were worse than the N800 and 770 imho04:22
Pupnikrev, did you used to program in NeXTstep?04:22
robtaylorrev: that sounds pretty cool :)04:22
revthe zauruses have a keyboard, but i can type just about as fast as a soft-keyboard as on a thumboard, but that's just me... i can do a good 40 WPM w/ *real* HWR, like on the Newton04:23
revPupnik: yeah, actually04:23
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killfillgizmo is the only SIP client avaible right?04:23
revPupnik: but it's never been my main area of work04:23
Pupnikrev, did you go to NDSU?04:23
revPupnik: nope, UMD in duluth, MN04:23
rev_gpolo: no prob04:23
_gpoloPupnik, how is zaurus compared to n800 ?04:23
_gpoloand why did you say an used one04:23
rev_gpolo: smaller device, lower res screen, crappier software04:23
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_gpolocant you run gnome on it too ?04:23
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rev_gpolo: the N800 can do google video/youtube, flash stuff, etc... the zaurus can't do any flash04:24
unique311Pupnik I got a could not map screenshot error...04:24
unique311but it starts04:24
revgpolo: you can't run full gnome, no04:24
revgpolo: unless you run it remotely04:24
robtaylorrev: you got a url for that project?04:24
gpolorev, is there any prevision for a new release for n series ?04:24
revgpolo: i mean, there is a zaurus distro called 'pocket workstation' that is setup more like a laptop than a PDA, but meh... you are using a crappier browser (dillo) rather than opera04:24
gpoloah, dillo, I have used it some time ago04:25
revgpolo: new hardware or software? the N800 just came out, no rumors on a new release04:25
gpoloa lot worse than opera of course ;p04:25
robtaylorkillfill: there's a sip connection manager availiable04:25
gpolorev, new hardware04:25
gpolorev, ok04:25
gpolouhm, nice then =)04:25
gpolonow maybe a more relevant question04:25
gpoloSupposing I dont have a n serie gadget yet, how would I develop and test for maemo ?04:26
gpoloI got scratchbox, but it didnt detect any emulation04:26
gpoloMaybe I didnt understand its purpose04:26
revrobtaylor: kind of in between sites... lost everything in my wiki a while back, and the project has been dormant for a few years. just started again working on it in the last few months since i got a new job and more time.  i keep meaning to start working on the wiki again, and can share the URL with you then if you'd like... i keep the newest version up here but you need to know how to do squeak before you could04:26
revreally use that04:26
robtaylorkillfill: but i suspect it may not work with the current OS release04:26
killfillrobtaylor: there is no binary.. :-(.. i guess this is my excuse to finnaly install all the dev environment.. :P04:26
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robtaylorrev: have you worked on any of the HWR?04:27
revrobtaylor: not the system built into the nokia04:28
revrobtaylor: i'm using this awesome system called Genie right now that gives you general gesture recognition throughout squeak... i hvae a full setup of gestures for text input on it right now. not real HWR ala the newton but very good single stroke stuff, very fast and more natural than craffiti04:29
robtaylorrev: nice04:29
revwhat's awesome about it04:29
revis that you can define gestures for any kind of UI component (Morph, in Squeak parlance)04:30
revso if you draw an X or a C on a window, it closes it04:30
robtaylorrev: i;ve been thinking of doing some sort of FLOSS HWR engine based on a TDNN and a HMM04:30
robtaylorrev: thats a nice idea04:30
revrobtaylor: or, if you draw a box on the desktop it makes a new text editor window04:30
revrobtaylor: anything like that, it takes no work to define04:30
robtaylori've been kinda put off HWR tthough from the studies done a decade ago showing tap-keyboards were faster input methods :/04:31
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sussmandoes anyone use the xchat port on maemo?04:31
sussmanjust wondering what irc options exist04:31
robtaylorrev: i'll have to get a sqeak envron setup and give it a play :)04:31
revsussman: yup, there is one- google is your friend04:32
sussmanyeah, google is VERY much my friend04:32
sussmansince they gave me this n80004:33
revsussman: oh, the irony!04:33
Sulissussman: yeah, it's quite goo04:33
Sulisgood too04:33
sussmanwhen googling, I found one lone developer's port of xchat to 2.804:33
sussmanbut I figured you guys in here might have something 'standard' that everyone uses04:33
revrobtaylor: awesome, let me know if you need help- squeak can be hard to grok for lots of coders used to original environments... if i'm not around, drop into #squeak04:34
robtaylorrev: i guessits pda32.image i want to grab?04:34
robtaylorrev: cool, thanks :)04:34
revrobtaylor: what is cool is that Genie is something that comes with all newer versions of Squeak- it just doesn't come with gestures defined, so most people don't see it.04:34
revrobtaylor: yeah, pda32.imgage pda32.changes is what to download... then get the VM for your OS from squeak.org04:34
sussman(so do maemo enthusiasts all use that xchat port for irc?)04:35
robtaylorrev: have you had it running on a real device?04:35
robtaylorsussman: run irssi on a server04:35
robtaylorin screen04:35
robtaylorand use ssh :)04:36
sussmanok, I can do that.04:36
sussmanirssi is nice.04:36
revrobtaylor: i run it on my N800 and before that the 770... i've been running Squeak on PDAs for a good 7 years- it all started with the VTech Helio (anyone remember that Linux-capable PDA), but I've also used the iPAQ 3650, Dell Axim X50v/51v, HP Jornada 720, Sigmarion 3, Zaurus SL-5500, Zaurus SL-6000, Zaurus C760 and other PDAs04:36
sussmanscreen is my buddy04:36
gpolois there some way to run maemo in a standard pc ?04:36
robtaylorrev: whats the speed/memory usage like?04:36
revrobtaylor: well, with Squeak the memory usage is basically the size of the .image file plus 1-4 MB for the VM04:37
revrobtaylor: speed is fine for me, it isn't super-duper fast, but Morphic as a GUI toolkit is slowish, but it isn't as slow as Java, for instance...04:38
revrobtaylor: with that PDA32 image i think the speed is just dandy on both the 770 and N80004:38
revrobtaylor: things like gesture recognition is just about instant04:38
revrobtaylor: for the VM on the N800 and 770 go here -
revrobtaylor: for a more extensive description of my impressions of squeak on the nokia 770 and instructions for install read these - and
robtaylorwow, morphic is really quite ugly04:40
revnot neccesarily04:41
revby default it is though04:41
revan old squeak image of mine, using morphic:
revsome other screenshots from morphic: ;
revthat last one includes in it the VT100/xterm emulator written for squeak... which is great for me, because it means other than a web browser, i can do everything in squeak. :)04:42
robtaylorhmm, well its all very interesting :)04:42
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robtaylori better head to bed, its nearly 3am here, but thanks for the lowdown :)04:43
revfo sho04:43
revsqueak's biggest problem is bad PR04:43
revso i try to help with that04:43
revbad PR stemming form some bad choices mostly about the default squeak image, mind yu, but still :)04:44
robtaylori wonder how good squeakgtk is ;)04:44
revat this point not good AFAIK04:44
revwxSqueak is usable04:44
revfrom what i've read04:44
Pupnik30fps with frameskip 1 ..04:44
robtaylorwx is a bit of the worst ofall worlds04:44
revdoesn't wxWin use gtk on linux? at least as an option i mean?04:44
robtaylora wx app looks slightly wrong on all its targets04:45
revrobtaylor: i don't expect gtk-types to go over, but i love morphic myself... it is a TON more powerful than any other gui toolkit i've used04:45
robtaylornot to mention the overhead as well04:45
revrobtaylor: fair enough04:45
revrobtaylor: it would be awesome to have squeak-gtk on maemo especially04:45
robtayloryeah :)04:45
killfillanyone uses gizmo?.. i dont find any sip config  window... :S04:46
revbut then we'd lose the awesome gesture recognizer04:46
killfilland have tap everywhere..04:46
revrobtaylor: maybe it could be adapted in some way though :)04:46
revrobtaylor: but it's very tied into morphic and derives a lot of it's functionality from stuff you get from morphic for free04:46
robtaylormaybe, i might steal its code into another language ;)04:46
sussmanoooh, a z-machine for maemo04:47
revplase do!04:47
* sussman goes to heaven04:47
robtaylorAaanyhoo.. bedtime!04:47
sussmangah, I have a mac, but the march 2007 OS upgrade requires linux or windows.04:47
robtaylornight all04:47
* sussman tries win2k in parallels04:47
* rev still has to call microsoft to reactivate his goddamn xp install on his MBP04:51
revsussman: i installed XP via bootcamp, booted into parallels using one of the newer "can read partition" betas, but that showed up as a different bunch of hardware, which made me want to reactivate XP... n ow i can't boot into either. luckily i don't need to use windows for anything but games, and have found some other games to tide me over :)04:51
Pupniksnes9x --selftest : All tests ok04:55
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unique311can't get a rom to work...05:03
unique311trying different flags05:04
unique311no go05:04
unique311selftest worked05:04
Pupnikunique311: run something with -dfr05:05
unique311no go05:05
sussmanthe win2k in parallels actually worked05:05
sussmannow I get to re-configure all my settings in maemo05:05
Pupnikunique311: you don't see a framerate at the bottom?05:05
unique311its screwed up..05:06
unique311a bunch of lines05:06
Pupnikunique311: then you can hit = twice to get to frameskip=105:06
unique311horizontal i see the numbers05:07
unique311i'm at 0505:07
unique311Pupnik what flags are you using?05:14
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unique311and which rom worked for you05:14
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killfillhey guys...05:16
Pupnikunique311: just trying all kinds of flags and config file settings, nothing is working yet05:17
killfillim plannig to buy that.. does bluetooth headphones works ok?.. i.e. to hear music and eventually when i get a sip client to work , speak by the phone?05:17
unique311same 10/6005:17
Pupniktrying snes9x 1.42 now05:19
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revPupnik: hey, if you UL any newer versions of snes9x or whatever, please msg me, ok? :D thanks!06:16
Pupnikso close... yet so far...06:19
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Takhmm , fceu sucks on 2007on77006:25
Takthumbpresses barely register at all06:25
Takis there some way to adjust the scre06:28
Takwtf - screen sensitivity06:28
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Pupnikaha, i could build it in the i386 target and see if the error is arm-related07:54
Pupnikor a problem with kdrive07:54
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unique311got it to start a rom?07:59
Pupnikyes but not to display anything08:01
Pupniki feel sick08:02
Pupnikthe x86 scratchbox build works08:03
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Pupnikis nokia 770 LSB_FIRST?09:24
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Pupnikis n770 kdrive xserver running rgb 565?09:35
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Pupnikhah it needs lsb_first09:46
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Pupnik60 fps10:23
Pupnikholy ____10:23
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Pupnikphoto of the first snes9x to run on nokia 770
AD-N770good morning10:46
EloiPupnik: frame rate? ;)10:48
Pupnik60fps on that screen10:48
Pupnikmuch slower on some other games10:48
Pupnikno sound or input working yet10:49
Eloiit's a good start aniway :)10:52
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Pupniki was just about to give up too10:53
Pupniki can't believe how fast it is10:55
Pupnikhi sbaturzioAtWork10:55
sbaturzioAtWorkPupnik: ciao10:55
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sxpertPupnik, considering the snes was running some souped up z80...10:57
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konttorimorning all10:57
Pupnikah the fps display is giving incorrect figures10:57
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konttoriPupnik: Did you have any luck with pico yesterday?10:59
Pupnikno i just got snes9x running :)10:59
Veggenhmm. Me, I got MythTV with transcoding for the N800 working during easter. And pushing it to a place where I can download it with my N800, etc. Works nice.11:03
Veggen(just google for "n800 mythtv", that provides the needed info, although could probably be a bit more userfriendly (gathering the bits)11:03
Veggenpity I don't really need it ;)11:04
Veggenwell, not yet. Maybe I do, but I just don't know it yet.11:05
glassPupnik: hows the speed with games with transparency effects?11:05
glasson snes9x11:06
Pupnikno idea, the input methods not working yet11:06
sp3000is d.m.o down or is it just me11:09
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timelesssp3000: speaking of11:22
timelessi've been trying to get crazyparking11:23
timelessand haven't managed all weekend :(11:23
sp3000-> ubg11:23
* sp3000 -> bus11:23
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keesjdoes the windows maemo chat client support video?11:41
keesjthe thing that is sent to people when you invite somebody ?11:42
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keesjHi btw. sorry for beging so rude11:42
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Pupnikabout 9 fps with frameskip 3 and scaling11:53
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wazquisanyone knows how to enter a new password for a wifi? My friend made a typo and it saved the password12:03
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Pupniki think there's a connection list somewhere, you can delete the connection and set it up again12:04
keesjwazquis: I think you can remove stuff via the control panel network connections12:05
wazquisah, we found it, thanks12:08
JaffaMorning, all12:10
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konttoriPupnik: SO, 9 fps with transparent effects?  Did you get the input methods working?12:31
konttoriIs that with scaling?12:31
Pupnikyeah and i can't turn scaling off12:33
Pupniksomewhere snes9x is setting scaling on regardless of config settings12:33
konttoriOk. So, 9 fps is almost playable12:34
Pupnikdo you have a n800 konttori ?12:34
Pupnikyeah i figure without the scaling it could be a good deal better12:34
Pupnikwithout sound unfortunately12:34
Pupniksavestates work12:37
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Pupnikfunny, in scratchbox it runs without scaling12:38
konttoriPupnik: yeah, I do12:38
konttoriAlso, if you could make it just do 2x scaling, it might also be faster (no floats needed)12:38
Pupnikwell as soon as i figure out where it's deciding to stretch the screen, i'll force it to 1x for the 77012:39
Pupnikand then hopefully get xsp accelerated scaling going12:39
Pupnikbut i'd like to see how fast the 800 runs it12:40
Pupnik(hint hint)12:40
konttoriPupnik: where can I dl to test it?12:41
konttoriAlso a test rom would be nice if you have. If not, I can get one.12:42
Pupnikdo you see my privmsg?12:42
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Pupnikyou can get public domain snes roms at zophar's domain12:45
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Pupniki'm sorry konttori, you're not responsive enough to help12:49
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* konttori was having lunch13:31
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konttoriPupnik: I didn't get your privmsg13:32
Pupnikstrange, i'm registered13:32
Pupniktry now13:32
konttoriHow can I switch view in irssi?13:32
Pupnikesc + number of chan13:33
Pupnikesc+2, 3, 4 etc13:33
zeenixor alt13:33
osfameronor /win $num<RETURN>13:34
osfameronif you like typing more13:34
Pupnikosfameron: well that is useful if you have more than 10 windows13:34
osfameronmore than 20 :-)13:34
osfameronI use esc + q-o for 11-1913:34
osfameronwhen you have more than that, it might be worth investing in a plugin that completes by channel name13:35
osfameronI have one that you write: /go ma<TAB> and it will complete to /go #maemo13:38
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Okkoalt+q: one window left and alt+w: one window right   are useful if you have lots of windows.13:44
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JaffaKimmo Kinnunen: a name I recognise from maemo-dev?
glassi've heard the name before too.. hmm14:46
glassi some symbian stuff i assume though14:47
glass-i +in14:47
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zeenixJaffa: glass: are you sure you people are not confusing it with Kimmo "Hämäläinen"? :)14:49
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glassafter some googling i'm sure i had heard the name before in association with webcore(nokia side).. not in connection with maemo though14:52
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Jaffazeeniz: I'm not sure of anything :-)15:05
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inzAt least my thunderbird only finds posts by Kimmos Alhola and Hämäläinen from maemo-developers.15:08
inzErr, Ahola that is15:08
inzBut anyway15:08
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mallumzeenix: ping16:03
zeenixmallum: pong16:04
mallumzeenix: re upnp - some stuff we hacked together a while ago but never got back too :(
zeenixmallum: hmm.. at first glance, api looks nice16:08
zeenixmallum: i could have used gupnp instead of punp but as you said, it's not maintained anymore :(16:09
VeggenIs upnp *only* on the local net, or is there a setup you can use to make it send packets to specified networks/servers?16:10
Veggenmy wireless network is on a different net than my wired lan, there is a firewall in between (that I control)16:10
mallumzeenix: whats punp ?16:10
zeenixmallum: pupnp i meant16:11
mallumzeenix: whats pupnp ?16:11
zeenixmallum: the one i mentioned/linked in my blog16:11
zeenixmallum: i thought you just read my blog?16:11
mallumzeenix: oh right - thats a fork of the old intel upnp libs ?16:12
zeenixand *compatible* fork16:12
mallumzeenix: yeah the API absolutely sucks then and try anything complex and you'll be at the mercy of the zillion threads it uses16:13
mallumzeenix: thats why we started hacking on gupnp16:13
zeenixmallum: how far did you go with gupnp, maybe we can revive it?16:14
mallumzeenix: it got pretty far-ish. upnp isn't easy to implement unfortunatly16:16
mallumzeenix: it would be very good to revive it16:16
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zeenixmallum: hmm.. i can at least look into it16:19
devI'm biased, but maybe can be of some help16:22
zeenixmallum: so i take it libgunp is glib mainloop friendly and doesn't use implicit threads?16:25
k-s[WORK]pupnp is buggy... :-(16:25
k-s[WORK]we've reported bugs already, AFAIK none of them were fixed16:25
* zeenix wonders why he can't write 'upnp' correctly16:26
mallumzeenix: yeap16:26
mallumdev: coherence is python based though16:26
k-s[WORK] is another good one16:26
k-s[WORK]it's built on the same roots as coherence... not much difference so far16:27
devmallum: yes16:27
k-s[WORK]mallum: python will probably ship with next platform... so not a big deal being python16:28
k-s[WORK]with carman being python, canola moving to python, konttori and many other good apps using it... using upnp written in python is not that problem16:29
k-s[WORK]at least it will be less buggy... clinkc and libupnp (and derivates) are really bad16:29
k-s[WORK]they have non-sense abstraction layers or reimplement things like threads or xml parsers... too bad, and too buggy :-(16:30
k-s[WORK]all in all... writting upnp in C is more trouble than goodness...16:30
k-s[WORK]it's not perfomance critical, few (users|queries)/second16:31
mallumk-s[WORK]: yeah great idea writing apps in python on an embedded device16:31
k-s[WORK]it's all about converting objects from some media (ie fs, db) to xml16:32
k-s[WORK]mallum: it actually is16:32
mallumk-s[WORK]: sure it is16:32
k-s[WORK]mallum: less memory leaks, less code on device... libpython will probably be already in ram16:32
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mallumk-s[WORK]: and python runs really fast and uses little memory with a fantastically efficient garbage collector16:32
k-s[WORK]mallum: n800 was a fast computer by 3-4 years ago, remember that ;-)16:33
k-s[WORK]mallum: I have pygame running at 60fps doing alpha transparency on n80016:33
mallumwow amazing16:34
k-s[WORK]mallum: if you opt to use SDL or GTK, most operations will be handled in C anyway, so just the control will run in python... that's almost nothing16:34
etrunkoand flickering16:34
k-s[WORK]etrunko: flicker is due xorg (daniels) not apps16:34
Robot101its just because there's not enough bandwidth to the screen16:35
k-s[WORK]etrunko: it happens in C (see canola, opera browser or any gtk window that does animation)16:35
k-s[WORK]Robot101: exactly16:35
etrunkoi know man... I was just kidding16:35
k-s[WORK]etrunko: ;-)16:35
mallumhey Robot10116:35
etrunkoI mean, it feels like the N800 is slower than the 77016:35
* Robot101 is on the train, yay didcot16:36
etrunkofor human eyes16:36
k-s[WORK]etrunko: yep... video player is even worse16:36
zeenixRobot101: err.. and i dont have internet at my apt for a week now :(16:36
Robot101zeenix: can't you just 3G with your phone?16:37
MoRpHeUzk-s[WORK]: gmyth-streamer is also in python ;-)16:37
k-s[WORK]mallum: the point is, n800 is not that slow, we're still far from it's CPU limit, and we lack applications... writing apps in python is easier, less error prone and just a bit slower16:37
k-s[WORK]MoRpHeUz: and catota ;-)16:37
etrunkok-s[WORK]: nice name16:38
k-s[WORK]today I'll release my brand new player and streamer solution for n800: catota16:38
MoRpHeUzhehe, for sure!16:38
zeenixRobot101: on n800, yeah but for some reason i fail to do any bluetooth connection from my ibm thinkpad16:38
k-s[WORK]zeenix: isn't your hw device off due ibm acpi?16:38
zeenixk-s[WORK]: beats me16:39
zeenixk-s[WORK]: i don't know16:40
k-s[WORK]is the green light on?16:40
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k-s[WORK]is the bluetooth card detected?16:40
mallumk-s[WORK]: great and I can enjoy a cup of tea whilst waiting for them apps to start and pray I have enough memory to run more than a couple of them16:40
k-s[WORK]sometimes I just hit the damn fn-F5 and toggle it16:40
robtaylormallum: it seems a lot of speedups have been made16:41
k-s[WORK]mallum: at least if you have them running, they'll probably stay running, not being caught by oom-killer due buggy, leaking, apps16:41
zeenixk-s[WORK]: i think so because the i was able to find my phone from the bluetooth utility (what was the name?)16:42
robtaylormallum: apparently import gtk only takes 10 secs now, which is pretty down from 30 :)16:42
k-s[WORK]zeenix: ok16:42
zeenixrobtaylor: :)16:42
mallumrobtaylor: haha, we're all set then16:43
k-s[WORK]robtaylor: jdahlin have some ideas to speed it up... like a "server" to fork new apps (kdeinit, maemo-lancher, ...)16:43
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k-s[WORK]problem with "import gtk" is the way it's implemented trigger the bad implementation of ld-linux16:44
k-s[WORK]it's now a bit better16:44
zeenixk-s[WORK]: thats all good but still it can't beat C and in the world of embedded, spead is *extremely* crucial16:44
robtaylork-s[WORK]: yeah, i know the bug well16:44
robtaylorzeenix: well thats true, but if it runs fast enough then there's no reason not to use it16:44
robtaylorzeenix: its not like its a bad development platform16:44
unique311Pupnik you around to share ur latest snes9x? read you made some progress..16:45
k-s[WORK]but before it did have a huge static table with every gtk symbol in it, so ld-linux had to resolve every gtk symbol before loading... and that requires waling a list doing strcmp(), but since gtk_names_have_a_long_prefix_...16:45
zeenixrobtaylor: what? n800/meamo or py?16:45
zeenixrobtaylor: 10 sec isn't a big deal you mean?16:48
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robtaylorzeenix: not for user apps, i think16:51
robtaylorzeenix: python, i mean16:51
robtaylorzeenix: i'm keeping an aye on pypy though :)16:52
robtayloreye, even16:52
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k-s[WORK]robtaylor: me too, but it's a long term thing :-(16:52
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robtaylori wonder if they got any GSoC love..16:52
k-s[WORK]robtaylor: using that patch to have ld-linux use the hash instead of linked list is likely to bring speedups sooner16:53
k-s[WORK]robtaylor: I think they do... also, EU sponsors the project... with lots of money AFAIK16:53
robtaylork-s[WORK]: wyeah, that;d be nice to see16:53
zeenixrobtaylor: امید بحار رکھ :)16:55
robtaylorzeenix: i can't read that language :/16:55
zeenixrobtaylor: before you segfaul, it's a urdu saying meaning, 'hope for the heaven' :)16:55
zeenixsegfault even16:55
robtaylorzeenix: i always do, i always do..16:56
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unique311anybody alive?17:39
unique311check out the rockbox source...codecs folder mainly, apps17:41
unique311well pretty much everything17:41
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unique311gonna try to run some of the apps and games in scratchbox17:46
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unique311can compile rockbox for arm17:57
bill20r3that'd be cool if they all ported over.17:57
unique311need  someone with the knowhow..17:58
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unique311followiing the README in docs18:17
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*** koen|gprs has joined #maemo18:35 has a pretty cheap BT gps, is it worth taking a $50 chance that it's any good?18:42
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jamey_anyone know what kind of DRAM (sdram, ddr, ddr2?) is in the N800?18:42
c0ffeefor $50 you should get a sirf III bt gps from ebay18:42
c0ffeeyou don't want anything without a sirf III18:42
bill20r3sirf III is the chipset?18:43
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[pcfe]yupp, I concur with c0ffee, Sirf III is the chipset you really want. I'm very haoppy with my Holux GPSlim 23618:44
[pcfe]brbr smoke18:45
bill20r3there's this one for us$50:
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bill20r3where does the map data for maemomapper come from?18:47
konttori_you can choose the source18:48
konttori_e.g. gmaps can be used as a source18:48
konttori_but there are others as well18:48
unique311konttori..whats up18:48
konttori_such as the open source alternative (can't remember what it's called)18:48
bill20r3so I can pre-populate it with map data from google maps before leaving home?18:48
konttori_Not much. Came back from work, took dinner, looking on what to do for ukmp18:49
unique311scroll up and check out the link for rockbox i added..18:49
konttori_can you repost?18:49
konttori_Did you have any success with picodrive?18:49
konttori_ok, what is rockbox?18:50
unique311basically linux for all those mp3 players...18:50
bill20r3open soucce firmware replacement for archos/iriver/other mp3 players.18:50
unique311ipods, irivers, etc18:50
[pcfe]bill20r3: yes you can pre-download the maps18:51
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konttori_I think I've seen it once. So, I suppose it's pretty good player.18:52
unique311well its linux...18:52
unique311diffferent from the rest...18:52
unique311check the directory out..18:52
unique311i just compile it for scratchbox..18:53
unique311not sure..after the make18:53
unique311it told me to run make zip18:53
konttori_still downloading18:53
unique311wondeiring if i should run make install...18:53
konttori_Sounds interesting. I hope you'll get it running18:54
unique311no rule for make install...18:54
unique311guessing its going to run like an emu18:54
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Smilezwhats new everyone/19:04
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konttori_unique311: Did you try compiling pico?19:36
unique311no Pupnik was gonna take a shot when he had time..19:38
unique311i tired..but it complained about arm..19:39
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konttori_Ok, so wasn't successful. Shame. I hope he can get it to work. Would be much faster than snes emus. Although snes emu should be easier to compile and might run fast enough with some tuning.19:40
unique311i'll give it a shot again..19:42
Tak|worklooks like it's a little faster than vba, thankfully19:42
Tak|work10fps should be fine for the plethora of good snes rpgs19:42
Tak|workand I expect it'll be at least 15fps on n80019:43
unique311he said he got 60 out of it..19:43
unique3111 game19:43
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unique311# mz8019:46
unique311DEFINC += -D_USE_MZ8019:46
unique311OBJS += ../../cpu/mz80/mz80.o19:46
unique311this was my issue yesterday im guessing..19:46
unique311ya'll spoke of cylclone..19:46
unique311maybe if i change some lines it will work..19:46
Tak|workit wasn't actually 60 - the fps counter was borked19:48
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zuhAnd anything above ~15fps is more than what gets on the screen (due to hw limitations) so the benefit of getting 60...20:13
zuhIt matters for input of course20:14
Tak|workI thought the hw allowed for 30fps with doubling?20:15
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unique311got picodirve20:17
zuhHmm, the pixel doubling is back?20:17
zuhI thought the only improvement was for the video in the latest firmware20:17
unique311gonna see if it works on the old n80020:17
gpolodoes cairo renders decent on n800 ?20:19
gpolohow fast it goes, for small things20:19
Tak|workyeah, pixel doubling is back20:21
konttori_sounds great that pixel doubling is back. Is it call compatible between 770 and n800?20:26
Tak|workwell - in my limited use, yes20:27
konttori_is N800 s movie player using it?20:28
Tak|workI don't know20:28
konttori_it seems to be awfully slow no matter what rez video20:28
Tak|workmovie playback still hangs for me with the builtin player20:28
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Tak|work770 player plays them flawlessly20:32
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anothy_xcan anyone recommend a folding bluetooth keyboard with full-sized keys for use with the N800 (preferably also the 770, but that's secondary)? i've looked at several, but it's hard to tell how good any are without having one to type on for a minute.21:55
* konttori_ is back21:56
anothy_xalso, is the environment needed to compile kernel modules for the N800 the same as that needed for generic applications? anything further?21:57
dragornanothy_x: nokia makes one which is semi-ok, i had some issues typing21:58
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Pupniki haven't tried them all, sorry22:00
anothy_xnokia's is the one i *did* get my hands on, and didn't like it.22:00
anothy_xsome of the stowaway's looked nice.22:01
Pupnikyou should buy brand x, it is much better than brand y22:01
Pupniki know this because i bought brand x and i use it22:01
bhimaI've got a ThinkOutside one.22:01
anothy_xyeah, those arguments are seldom compelling.22:01
anothy_xbut "i have a brand y and it sucks" are more informative.22:02
Pupnikanothy_x: maybe you want something with more keys22:02
Pupnikand 4 rows22:02
bhimaA pin fell out of it and I need to get off my ass and send it back in to them or replace the pin; I think I can do that.22:02
anothy_xbhima: know which one, off hand? are you happy with it?22:02
Pupniki mean 5 rows22:02
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bhimaTheir standard bluetooth one.22:02
bhimaIt has one very, very irritating feature which I should look in to; I think it's only a problem with maemo. let me chekc.22:03
Pupniki have stowaway bt.  haven't used anything else22:03
bhimaIf I press "FN down" "T/5 down" "FN up" "T/5 up" I get "5t" instead of "5"22:03
anothy_xis this the one you both are talking about?
bhimaOh, wow, no, I didn't know they had that one in bluetooth.22:04
Pupnikno that's the bigger one22:04
Pupnikthe stowaway is smaller22:04
Pupnikit's also called 'stowaway;22:05
konttori_unique311: did you want to ask something?22:05
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anothy_xthis one? looks like small keys.
unique311trying to get picodrive compile...22:06
bhimaI have that one in iPaq.22:06
unique311i sent you a PM Pupnik22:06
Pupnikkey size is fine22:06
bhimano, I"m wrong, it's the keyboard.22:06
Pupnikunique311: is your nick registered?22:06
bhimaIt's very irritating.22:06
anothy_xthe second one?22:06
bhimaThe four part folding one is nice, but the middle hinge is always loose.22:07
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unique311yes it is22:07
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bhimaI have the metal one in bluetooth and the black one in wired.22:07
bhimaAlso, on my n800 it often auto repeats horribly.22:07
anothy_xbut the keys are full size and reasonable (i'm not looking for desktop-class springyness, obviously, but not feeling like mush would be good)/22:07
bhimaBut that doesn't seem to be happening on my mac right now.22:07
bhimaThe keys themselves are very nice IMHO.22:08
bhimaThe mechanism looks quite complicated, but other than this pin dropping out it's held up very well.22:08
anothy_xwhat a lame site. the front page tells me the first one's called the sierra, although it doesn't say that anywhere on the product page.22:09
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sp3000can I make the xterm not scroll to bottom on output22:09
bhimaThinkOutside got bought by iGo. Mayhbe they screwed up the site.22:09
anothy_xk. i'm going to look around a bit more, but that's what i'm leaning towards. thanks for the input.22:10
sp3000it's no fun trying to view a syslog tail when scrolling causes the audio foo to activate and deactivate -> log22:10
anothy_xanyone worked with lkm's on maemo?22:10
c0ffeei compiled some22:10
sp3000so scrolling anywhere else causes it to drop to the bottom after a second :D22:10
bhimaI've also tried an older fold in half IR keyboard.22:10
bhimaIt has some fairly small buttons on it.22:10
c0ffeei have the nokia one22:10
bhimaANd it had 7 modifiers.22:10
c0ffeeit sucks by design22:11
c0ffeebut it's better than the onscreen kb22:11
bhima"Less painful than having your fingerails ripped out"22:11
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anothy_xcool, cause that sucks!22:11
bhimaI want a carrying case to hold my n800 and a keyboard together and use them on the go.22:12
c0ffeestaring on a screen 'on the go' causes serious injuries22:12
c0ffeewhen running into traffic signs etc22:12
anothy_xmy train seldom runs into traffic signs.22:13
bhima That one.22:13
bhimawell, similar at least. I've never actually used that one; Apple made one.22:13
bhimaI've walked around with a newton and wired keyboard with no case, IRC'ing. :)22:13
anothy_xah, newtons.22:14
anothy_xc0ffee: on the lkm: no special tricks, same cross-compiling env as regular maemo apps?22:15
c0ffeethere's an howto in the wiki22:16
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c0ffeeit's not copy & paste22:16
c0ffeebut it works along those lines22:16
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anothy_xanyone here involved with maemo's GSoC effort?22:28
anothy_xi'm involved in plan9's and i'm curious whether everyone else is having as much "fun" trying to allocate slots as we are.22:29
Pupnikplan 9 is from outer space22:31
anothy_xindeed. :-D22:31
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Pupnikmaybe this SoC is just a marketing problem22:32
Pupniki just started porting apps and now have 7 projects running22:32
Pupnikis there money in it?  fame?22:32
anothy_xwe actually had a port to the nokia tablets in our project list, but (much to my dismay) it's unlikely that's going to make it at this point.22:33
anothy_xwell, since i've given up on getting a reasonable response out of nokia's support, i've now got an extra 770. maybe i'll try the port myself over the summer.22:37
anothy_xi'll let you all know how it turns out. in the mean time, thanks for the info and pointers.22:37
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_m0hi @all!22:45
_m0someone around who has aircrack-ng working on n800?22:45
_m0i always get the error message /bin/sh: ./aircrack-ng: not found22:46
gpoloseems easy to fix22:46
gpolomaybe someone coded with a editor that break-lines in windows style22:47
_m0ah i see, thx for the info.22:47
_m0but how can i fix it?22:48
gpoloyou have to remove these things22:48
gpoloit seems you have a shell in your n80022:48
gpolo(I dont own a n800)22:48
gpoloit has sed ?22:48
gpolotype sed on shell22:48
_m0yes i got a shell on my n80022:49
gpolodo you have sed ?22:49
gpoloI believe so22:49
bill20r3does the n800 wlan driver support injection?22:50
gpolosed -e "s/[\r\n]//g" aircrack-ng > aircrack-ng222:50
gpolotry to run aircrack-ng2 then22:50
_m0i am a little bit confused about the break-lines since aircrack-ng is a binary.22:50
gpoloit is binary ?22:50
_m0ok i will give it a try22:50
gpolodont do that then22:50
_m0i thought it is i will just check.22:51
gpoloit seems to be a shellscript22:51
gpolocheck it22:51
_m0it is an elf 32-bit file22:54
_m0so no chance with sed :(22:54
gpolodo ldd aircrack-ng22:54
gpolocheck the output22:54
_m0dynamically linked maybe that is the problem.22:55
gpolomaybe it is missing a library22:55
_m0i don't have ldd :)22:55
gpoloI wish I had a n800 ;)22:55
_m0it's nice, but i can't compare it to the n770 never had one22:56
Tak|work_m0: where are you trying to run aircrack-ng from?22:56
_m0xterm, after changing to root22:56
Tak|workI mean what directory22:57
_m0thats where the binary is placed.22:57
Tak|workand it's executable?22:57
_m0yes it is.22:58
Tak|workhmm, I don't know then23:00
_m0k, thx anyway23:00
MoRpHeUzhhmm....the search engine from "" is case sensitive. =/23:01
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_m0instead of "ldd" one can use "/lib/ --list </path/to/binary"23:18
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nhdezoito_adrianhi all23:25
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gpolo_m0, ldd is just a shell script that uses /lib/ld-*23:31
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_m0ok, i didn't know23:33
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