IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-03-31

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* tigert has a roomba00:21
tigertits fun :)00:21
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ajturnerit is,00:24
* ajturner has a bt module for his roomba00:25
ajturnerthough it doesn't work :p00:25
BogBrother  <-- high resolution Virtual Reality Head Mounted Display00:26
BogBrotherup to 4200x2400 pixels per eye at 180 degrees field of vision00:26
* BogBrother does the spazzy kermit-the-frog arm motion thing00:27
ajturnerBogBrother - can you buy it now?00:27
ajturnerhah! "Feel free to tell us how much do you expect to pay"00:28
BogBrother:) was just going to paste that00:28
BogBrotherlesser systems are in the $30,000 - $100,000 range right now00:29
* ajturner had an HMD in 1994 for $40000:29
ajturner'twas sweet - played Quake with it00:29
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ajturnersadly they don't make them, and requires an internal ISA card to run00:30
ajturnerand a patch cable from your vid card00:30
ajturnerbut was incredible for the price00:30
BogBrotheri remember the vfx1...00:30
BogBrothersad that it's 2007 now and we still have no decent HMDs00:30
ajturnerwell, I know that's the absurd part00:31
ajturnerit had a puck too00:31
ajturnerso much for hte future ;)00:31
ajturneractually VRML/X3D are finally showing up for real in real applications00:31
ajturnerthink if you had the VFX-1 w/ SecondLife :)00:31
BogBrothermy killer app would be WWII flight sims where you need lots of situational awareness00:31
BogBrotherhow did the vfx do head tracking?00:32
ajturnerwhat kind of fighting flight sim *don't* you need situational awareness! but yeah, def00:32
ajturneraccelerometers & magnetometer00:32
ajturnerso no external devices00:32
BogBrotherwow.  how was accuracy?00:32
ajturneronly orientation - not position (though you could if you had decent accels & algorithms)00:32
BogBrotheronly orientation would matter for me.  but i've tried VR goggles and main gripes were 1) lag, 2) resolution and 3) field of view00:33
ajturnerpretty good accuracy - good enough to play quake - though you can't begin to turn your head as fast as someone can move a mouse on high-sensitivity00:33
ajturnerbut you could aim precise for long-distance firing00:34
ajturnerunfortunately, that was before I knew how to program, so I never built an app for it - was one of the reasons I actually learned how to program00:34
BogBrotherheh i was too poor.  but i made a stereoscopic viewer, with those jewelers goggles and some cardboard00:35
BogBrotherthen i drew two windows on the monitor, for viewing 3d stereoscopic image pairs00:35
ajturnerthey made a follow up to the vfx1 that was vga I think & usb00:35
ajturnerah - nice00:36
BogBrotheryeah i've been looking around to catch up on the market00:36
|tbb|maddler u there?00:36
ajturnerI'm curious about those laptop displays that do stereoscopic with just the 2d display and no goggles00:36
glasstwo planes of pixels that show up to certain direction00:37
ajturnerhow centered does you head have to be?00:37
glassthere was some 3d display like that on some stand at 3gsm@barca00:37
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glasspretty centered00:38
|tbb|when i try to run maddlers script i get an error /bin/sh: not found, any idea whats wrong?00:38
BogBrotherpermissions perhaps00:40
BogBrothertry passing it to sh with "sh" ?00:40
|tbb|ah k, thats it00:41
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|tbb|where do i find gawk package for bora01:24
pekkisIs that new Gaim only for n800 ?01:25
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wacky_any Canola developer around ?03:40
pekkisI do ot think so - not uch traffic for sevr03:42
pekkisseveral hours03:43
wacky_heh, your keyboard is stuck ?! :P03:44
pekkisn770 + remote desktop+ osk to my desktop pc03:47
wacky_heh :P03:47
pekkisshould not try to type too fast03:48
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Takhave I lost my mind, or is there no builtin backup util on n800?04:39
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wacky_it has changed place04:49
wacky_look in the menu...04:49
Takit's not there04:50
Takit's supposed to be in Tools , right?04:50
TakI tried running osso-backup and osso-backup.launch from xterm too04:50
febbanyone has been able to run remote X applications on the 770/N800.  I am using Xter+ssh to open remote X apps and have problems with keyboard input.04:58
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febbIt just doesn't work., i.e.  I can't even open the virtual keybd on the N800.04:59
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dragornTak: It's definitely there, somewhere in control panel I think05:12
dragornfebb: I'd guess, and this is a WAG, that the osso x libs have hooks to bring up the vkb in text fields, and your remote x libs don't05:12
Takin my case, it's definitely *not* there05:16
Takit shows up in Tools after I flashed05:16
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TakSHIT - n800 reboot loop05:38
Takr&d mode isn't helping :-(05:39
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febbdragorn: Thanks for answering.  I have the "off the shelf" x libs that come with the N800's operating system, I have the latest firmware tough.   Does that means that I have to install something else to get the vkbd ?05:55
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Takis there a way to force the jffs to garbage-collect?06:26
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robtaylorjumpula: yeah, built that myself from darcs. Are there offical snapshots availiable?10:52
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konttoriNew release of UK MP:
konttoriNew features include shuffle, much better support for people with odd file systems, Albums with various artists are now listed with album name instead of the albums first songs artist name (although sort still uses the artist name, will be fixed soon enough).14:02
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konttoriStill installer installs nastily, but otherwise much improved version. If you had trouble with the previous one, please test this one out.14:13
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Sonej^not the best fps on the nes emulator, is it the hardware?14:44
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konttoriSonej: what emulator?15:10
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BogBroth1rther is only fceu15:29
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Sonej^oh, the nes one15:47
BogBroth1rSonej^: 770 or 800?15:53
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Sonej^using rdesktop now :P15:57
BogBrothercan you start fceu without 2x scaling and without sound?15:58
BogBrotheri'd be curious to see how the n800 can get full framerate without sound and scaling15:58
BogBrotheriirc, the NES has some FM synthesis audio chips and they are very expensive to emulate15:59
BogBrotheralso due to design limitations in the TI OMAP2, the N800 needs to use an external framebuffer, so screen draws aren't very fast.  Drawing a 2x scaled screen might be a significant bottleneck16:00
BogBrotherso i'm mostly curious to see if the n800 can run the fceu core at full speed without those two loads16:01
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Sonej^i will test it without the sound ans scaling16:11
konttoriYeah, dropping sound emulation should help quite a bit.16:11
konttoriAlso, if you look at the mplayer, it's obvious that you can render full screen pretty well16:12
konttoriI think the only bottleneck may be either the sound emulation or in the c++ / c code16:13
konttoriI'd wager it's both.16:13
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Sonej^yepp much smoother without the sound and scaling16:13
konttoriNES emulation runs on S60 devices full speed with sound emulation on lesser processors, so there should be plenty left for the scaling16:14
sxpertyay, supermario :D16:15
konttoriAlthough, I would concentrate on picodrive or on some snes emulator myself.16:15
konttoriThey have much more interesting games available than nes does.16:15
jumpularobtaylor: not yet16:15
sxpertkonttori, "real life", "girlfriend" ?16:16
jumpulabut when i have something (tested), i'll make it available16:16
konttoriand picodrive has a arm assembler optimization layer already.16:16
konttorisxpert: I hear you. And know the feeling16:16
sxpertkonttori, huhu16:16
konttoriOk, even nes emu would be pretty cool.  ... to start with... ;)16:17
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czrquestion about the flasher. the download index has flasher-3.0-static (and others) as well as flasher.dapper. is the latter 3.0 or 2.0?16:27
czrhmh. the dapper version doesn't print out any version strings, and the 3.0-static prints out 'flasher v0.9.0 (Jan 19 2007)'16:29
czrhighly logical :-)16:29
konttoriat least it states the jan 19 2007.16:29
* czr nods16:30
czrI'll go with the static then16:31
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czrhmm. in 2007, the mail client doesn't support IMAP folders?16:55
sxpertthat's for 2009, obviously :D16:56
czrmuhaha :-)16:56
czrI never started using 770 back in the day because the mail client didn't support imap folders16:56
czrso I guess I won't be using 800 for much either :-)16:56
* czr thinks it's a bit silly16:57
czrseriously though, no imap folders or am I just stupid and can't find them?16:57
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konttoriIn preparation for the final 1.0 version, I have created a python 2.4 install file that will install python for N800 as well as 770.17:12
konttoriIt's mostly for end users benefit, but some of you might also enjoy an easy click'n' go install17:18
konttorihey, anyone noticed the glued screen protector on n800. You can see the 'removal' part for the protector in the top of the screen. Slightly off the middle.17:22
konttoriAt least my 'screen protector' is so scratched that it looks awful17:23
BogBrotherkonttori: i have picodrive svn downloaded... want to start a picodrive project? :)17:23
konttoriBogBrother: I don't have linux, so can't help on any C projects.17:23
konttoriCant compile them on osx for maemo17:23
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konttoriWould like to do that if I could though17:24
BogBrotherpicodrive is pretty odd, it will take a lot of work to get it running in scratchbox17:25
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BogBrothermaybe the guy who did the zaurus port will buy a n800 and join our army :P17:25
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konttoriWell, if you can get the core running, you could always drop all GUI and then add the GUI one functionality at a time17:27
BogBrotherdefinitely agree that SNES would be the killer emu.  it has the best non-action games.17:27
konttoriI think the core should be pretty atomic.17:27
konttoriBut picodrive has optimizations that will make it rock on maemo devices17:28
konttoriit will look stunning once you get it running.17:28
danielsoh man, i miss the megadrive17:28
konttoriOnly thing we'll need then is a proper dpad. ... Maybe use the wiimote through BT for that!17:28
danielshaving proper columns on the n800 would be phat17:29
BogBrotherkonttori: for the RPGs, the existing controls will be fine17:29
Sonej^What codec does the Camera application use while recording video? Cannot seem to find it.17:29
BogBrotherproviding fceu-style buttons on the right17:29
konttoriPut n800 on stand mode, take wiimote and start playing for real17:29
konttoriBogBrother: true!17:29
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czrhmm. any idea why flasher-3.0-static would fail with 800 with the following output: NOLO version 1.1.3\nVersion of 'sw-release': <no version> ?18:08
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czrczr, "user stupidity error"18:11
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czr(had -R instead of -F :-)18:13
konttoriBogBrother: Have you tested compiling pico already?  I guess you can properly only test it in ARM device though18:13
konttoriOr, under the arm emulation18:13
BogBrotheryeah konttori but i didn't look into why it didn't compile18:13
BogBrotherTak knows a bit more18:14
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konttoribogbrother. Might be because cyclone core in it is purely arm assembler, so it might not be so nice for intel compiler18:14
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konttoriBog: ahh.. cool. I hope Tak can then help you out in getting pico working18:14
BogBrotherlooking at netrek at the moment18:15
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BogBrotherheh, porting solaris game to maemo == PITA19:15
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bipolarIs anyone else having a problem with apt trying to install bsdutils which fails becouse 'usr/bin/logger' is also in busybox?20:29
maddlerbipolar: lemme try...20:29
maddlerbipolar: yup... same error...20:31
maddlerif you dare you could install with dpkg --force-all20:31
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bipolarI've really got to clean this thing up20:32
bipolarI moved root to sd, which makes installing the latest update difficult20:32
bipolarIs there an updated kernel with HCSD support?20:32
maddlerread it this morning on ITT20:32
maddlerdidn't tried anyway...20:33
maddlerno HCSD cards :)20:33
bipolarroot is on an hcsd card :P20:33
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bipolarmaddler: well, it's broken now :P20:51
bipolarmaddler: trying to boot off the sd card makes it load half way, then reboot20:52
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maddlertried the force-all stuff?21:04
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bipolarmaddler: right. I'm going to revert to running off of internal flash and see how it works.21:22
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keesj If you have previously installed maemo 3.0 in your computer you21:40
keesj   can upgrade to maemo 3.1 just by running these three commands21:40
keesj   inside the Scratchbox:21:40
keesjwhy use xerphir and not Xnest?21:45
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user_hello maemo'ers21:47
user_like the camera update lots..21:48
user_now who do i have to screw around here for a sketch, draw, and paint app....gimp anyone...21:49
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VeggenNuts. My files in my X86-target in scratchbox is gone. Empty catalogs.21:55
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danielskeesj: xnest is heavy and slow, and old.  xephyr is new and shiny, much faster, and is guaranteed to support all the extensions.22:09
keesjthanks, strange I can't find it in gentoo :(22:16
danielsweird, it's been around for ages.  bug spyderous about it, i guess.22:17
BogBrotherwhat do you run to see /control your linux desktop from the nokia?22:17
keesjit is related to kdrive ,it looks like I have to install that22:17
kulvexephyr also supports 16bpp X on 24bpp desktop X22:24
keesjok that is nice,22:24
danielskeesj: yeah, it's a part of kdrive22:25
danielswell, kdrive is a framework which xephyr uses22:25
BogBrotheram compiling an old netrek client (paradise) and get error  X11/Xmu/CurUtil.h: No such file or director22:26
BogBrothershould i try to compile the Xmu stuff in scratchbox22:26
BogBrotheror try to figure out how to get rid of the Xmu dependency?22:26
danielsor lixmuu-dev22:28
danielsshould already be there, no?22:28
daniels(if not, install libxt-dev, and the debian libxmu package will build fine)22:28
BogBrotherapt-cache search libxmu22:29
BogBrotherxlibs-dev - X Window System client library development files pseudopackage22:29
BogBrotherxlibs-dev is already the newest version22:29
BogBrotherlibxt-dev is already the newest version22:29
danielsokay, then you need to get libxmu from debian and build that22:29
BogBrotherok thanks22:30
BogBrotheri know nobody would actually play* netrek on 770, but it should just *be there* :)22:33
danielsyou'll need to drag libxmu6 (or libxmuu1, depends) over to the device too22:35
BogBrotherxmuu looks smaller, will try that first22:35
danielsif you can use xmuu, do22:36
danielsthey both suck, but xmuu is less offensive22:36
danielsxmuu is koff to xmu's lapin kulta22:36
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pancake :)22:51
pancakei'm planning to write a GTK frontend22:56
pancakeand enable features for backuping and so22:57
pancakehelp is welcome too22:57
shackanpancake, could it be used to install a non-linux kernel as well ?22:57
pancakenot yet22:58
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pancakewe need to implement a free bootloader22:58
pancakexloader and secondary22:58
daniels(and 2nd)22:59
shackanporting U-Boot to the n800 would be fun22:59
pancakebtw i want to try the handhelds patch for using kexec()22:59
pancaketo boot nonlinux ELF kernels22:59
shackanohhhhhh, I want that!22:59
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pancakei've an n800 of a friend for a week23:00
pancakei will play with it too23:00
* shackan dreams about netbooting non linux kernels via usb23:01
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pancakei would like to see a completely free OS on it23:02
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mikemorrisondoes anyone here know how to get the arguments that are passed to a program via libosso when it is launched?23:02
pancakemikemorrison: nope noa rgs are passed23:03
pancakeyou've to use a .service file for that23:03
pancakeand launch't via dbus-send23:03
pancakei've written some scripts for that on the Canoe23:03
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pancakelook for it23:03
mikemorrisoni have a service file. if i click on a file in the file manager, it opens my program, but how do i get the file?23:03
pancakeopen't with the text editor23:04
pancakeshackan: join the mailing list for further development23:06
mikemorrisonopen what with a text editor?23:07
pancakewhat do you want to do?23:07
pancakewhatch this23:08
pancakedbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call /usr/bin/osso_calculator string:%s23:08
pancakethis is a sample example23:08
* shackan is in23:08
mikemorrisoni want my program to open the file that was clicked on in the file manager. my program opens, but the file name isn't passed in the normal way (argv).23:08
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pancakeyou've to implement a dbus method for this23:09
mikemorrisonyeah. that's what i figured... is there not a method to do this in libosso?23:10
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pancakeno idea, sorry :/ read sources fmi :/23:11
mikemorrisonis the source code available for, say, the "Notes" program?23:16
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florianhi all23:45
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kulvemikemorrison: there's is a osso_set_mime_cb or something like that, but I couldn't get it working23:50
kulvemikemorrison: it works only if the app is already running23:51
mikemorrisonyeah i got the source for the application installer and saw that in there. i will try it out.23:51
kulvejust a seco23:51
kulvemikemorrison: search for "dbus_handler"23:52
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mikemorrisonkulve: so you don't use the osso_set_mime_cb?23:59
kulvecouldn't get it working23:59

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