IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-03-24

Veggenhmmf. I think if my reinstall-package-strategy shall be effective, I need to filter out the already installed packages.00:00
Veggennow, I just try to install all packages that was installed before.00:01
Veggendpkg --set-selections wanted to pull in new busybox. can't have that :)00:01
* sp3000 slaps the webmail notifier00:02
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sp3000<notifier> *jingle* you have 5589 unread!00:02
* sp3000 goes and reads one00:02
sp3000...a few minutes pass...00:02
sp3000<notifier> *jingle* you have 5588 unread!00:02
sp3000gee, thaks00:02
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tigertsp3000: yeah, mail notifiers were fun in 199500:13
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hapcan someone tell me what is the default root passwd after a firmware update?01:40
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sp3000hap, rootme02:00
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hapah yeah thanks02:12
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neostriderhello folks04:25
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dick-richardsonI have an sd card I want to remount. My script is04:56
dick-richardsonsudo fuser -km /media/mmc104:56
dick-richardsonsudo umount /media/mmc104:56
dick-richardsonsudo mount /media/mmc -o rw04:56
dick-richardsonbut after running the script, the n800 tells me the card isn't inserted. any idea what I'm missing?04:56
dick-richardsonthe 4th line is 'sudo mount /media/mmc1 -o rw'04:57
dick-richardsonif I'm in the wrong room, let me know where I should be05:01
danielstko: pfft, whatever :P05:08
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dolfunwatching the british comedy series 'The IT Crowd'... it's a bit like BOFH on tv :)05:57
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Markovhey. i just got the nokia su 8w keyboard06:56
Markovwhenever i push enter in most fields, it brings up the thumb key pad06:56
Markovthis is pretty annoying06:57
Markovand what happened to the download.maemo page?07:00
Markovit's all wonky07:00
dolfunMarkov: that's interesting, the enter key in synergy also brings up thumb key pad07:04
dolfunprobably a different cause07:05
dolfuni've seen similiar stuff with the thinkoutside stowaway kbd.  sometimes the thumbkey pad comes up07:05
Markovhmmm. i wonder if i installed i incorrectly...07:05
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Markovi don't think so07:10
Markovand this did not happen before i updated the OS this evening07:11
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dolfunwhat OS running now?07:15
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garrettI just upgraded my N800 to the latest firmware and now I cannot install any packages -- the application manager complains about not being able to refresh the list09:59
garrettany ideas on how to fix it?09:59
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garrettaha! a bug10:03
garrettif one has proxy settings, it uses that, even if proxy settings are disabled10:04
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* sxpert can now recurse directories in his phone11:44
* sxpert slaps the idiot that came up with that stupid obex crap11:44
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* dolfun wonders if Xsp has changed from mistral to gregale12:08
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Molagiaah damn that new update improved video playback12:15
Molagii can play high quality videos with the standard media player12:16
Molagiand they dont freeze at all12:16
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dolfunwhat OS?12:16
mikemorrisoni guess there's no way to install the update without losing all extra installed programs?12:16
MolagiOS 2007 edition v. 3.2007.10-712:16
dolfunmikemorrison: correct12:17
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c0ffeesince the backup preserves the sources.list, it should be easy when you only have applications from these sources installed12:19
Molagiyeah was a bit shock when i noticed all the programs were lost :(12:19
mikemorrisoni guess i should run the backup prog then!12:19
dolfunany body compile any other sdl programs or demos with pixel-doubling?12:19
keesjI have been searching for the real improvements in the distro. but on thing is for sure, the battery life is back to old 770 day's and that makes me feel so happy12:20
keesjdolfun: we are all waiting for you to fix the problems :p12:20
keesjsave the world!12:20
dolfunok :)12:21
keesjI want it , and if I get time I would like to spend some time enhancing sdl for the arm12:21
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keesjand 16 bpp :p12:21
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dolfunonly way to do it is look at xsp internals12:23
dolfunand continue my sdl tutorial12:23
dolfun<- lazy12:23
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OkkoInstalling mnotify.. The license agreement says "You may make one copy of the Software on magnetic media as an archival backup copy[...]. Any other copies You make of the Software are in violation of this Agreement."12:43
OkkoSo remember kids, you should not make tar copies of installed packages on flash media :)12:44
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keesjlol , yes the idnt licences are pretty funny to read12:52
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keesjOkko: did you also happen to read the canola licence?12:52
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keesjbut I must say that I do like the mail app . I would prefer it to be a home applet12:53
Okkokeesj: no, is this the time when someone comes to claim my first born child? :)12:53
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keesjOkko: sorry I don't understand , but In the first paragraph they refer to the "software described below" and in the second the software described above :)12:55
keesjwapourware :p12:56
Okkokeesj: it's the common joke to refer to too strict licenses as if they would demand the child of the user12:56
keesjIt's time for a 770 v.s. n800 power contest!12:56
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Okkois this mnotify part of maemo platform, it's maintainer is ""?12:59
sbaturziouhmmm....what happens to GPG key for ? It gives me: BADSIG CBFC2BECC6903E7212:59
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keesjOkko I think so, you also see that the quality is above average (help icon's , nice graphics, works the first time and never heard about it on this channel)13:02
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keesjcreated by little men on the moon13:02
keesjand perhaps even tested13:02
OkkoI think so too but I'm unable to tell if nokia thinks it's part of maemo or if there's some other department with little men that creates these addons :)13:04
Okkoand how the IT OS and Maemo are related/distinguished13:06
keesjOkko , yes , I also expected the fm-radio to be in the new release.13:06
dolfun_xspradios next to comptuers = noise13:06
tkoroughly: maemo = open source framework + minimum necessary binary only blobs, IT OS = maemo + applications (open + proprietary)13:07
Okkotko: ok so I should not report bugs of those proprietary components of IT OS to
keesjO no! I have been calling the maemo sdk's it2007 and such13:07
tkoOkko, for things that came with the device there's n800 product in bugzilla IIRC13:08
tkofor addons.. I've no idea13:08
keesjtko: is there a name for the 2.x releases ?13:08
tkokeesj, IIRC, 2.0 = mistral, 2.1 = scirocco, 2.2 = gregale13:09
tko3.x = bora13:09
dolfun_xspwhy don't i see .debs released on garage specify mistral/scirocco/gregale?  are they compatible?13:10
Okkowell I'll file a couple of bugs of the addons to the N800 product, I'll guess they'll kick them out if that was an unproper place13:10
keesjOkko don't you also wonder why so much google related apps are available?13:10
keesjThe radio has some strange things happening in combo with the lock keys13:11
Okkokeesj: I have wondered yes. I presume they'll either come out with a Google deal sometime in the future or there's someone at Nokia who loves google products :)13:11
tkothings built on mistral will work on any later release, unfortunately it doesn't work the other way round due to our mistake13:11
keesjOkko: for the webmail notifier there is even a control panel entry13:12
Okkokeesj: yes and if you click on the settings and then the ? symbol to get help the Help page says "Accounts page - Enter the username and password of your webmail account."13:13
Okkobut the page is "Gmail Account", not "Accounts" :)13:13
dolfun_xspthanks tko13:15
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dolfun_xspwould it be most sensible for me to develop in a gregale / 2.2 environment if my target is 770 users?13:26
* dolfun_xsp switches to gregale13:30
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svu__Internet call, winapp showing "network error (close). try again later". what could this be?13:52
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bingohi, I read on  that there is a "nokia-made"camera application for the N800 is it true?13:57
bingoI know malomo but it's not a nokia-made application13:57
kulvethere's "Camera" application13:59
kulvevery simple13:59
kulveand nokia made14:00
kulve  Candidate: 2.114:00
kulve        500 bora/user Packages14:00
bingothank you Kulve I will try it14:04
svu__kulve: it is nice but it clearly shows the lack of sheer cpu power (or memory bandwitdh) ;014:05
kulveI'm sure if that app shows anything. It seemed quite small and quickly made, so I doubt it's really optimized in any way..14:06
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bingokulve camera is great, just what I need14:12
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ptmanapparently running canola after installing without rebooting first made my n800 unbootable14:26
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ptmanoh, well, I didn't have everything set up after reflashing anyway14:27
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disqwhy is the camera app so laggy?14:37
disqmalomo was laggy too14:37
disqi should get the latest malomo and try that14:38
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svu__what's the best irc client app for n800? gui, i mean14:45
[A]ndy80svu: you can use xchat14:45
kulvedisq: malomo haven't been very active and the gst pipeline there isn't probably a good place to verify anytihng..14:48
svu__[A]ndy80: from which repo?14:49
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[A]ndy80don't remember... it's on in repositories14:49
* svu__ added them all, still does not see ://14:50
disqkulve: it's still faster than nokia's camera14:53
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* dolfun_beer writes a begging email to Lauri Leukkunen15:23
dolfun_beerIdea is to call XSPRegisterDSPArea before starting video playback and then wait15:24
dolfun_beerfor XSPDSPStoppedEvent, which would indicate that X decided to stop the DSP.15:24
dolfun_beerAfter video playback is complete (there was no XSPDSPStoppedEvent), XSPCancelDSPArea15:24
dolfun_beershould be called to tell X to no longer monitor the screen area for "intrusions".15:24
dolfun_beerthat's a good hint... some how X is detecting 'intrusions'15:25
kulvedolfun_beer: what are you doing..?15:25
danielsdolfun_beer: yes, it detects when someone draws over the video area15:25
danielswhy are you using xsp for video, though?15:25
dolfun_beerfor sdl game15:25
svu__found xchat/maemo. hurray15:25
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dolfun_beerit only doubles the currently drawn putrect15:25
dolfun_beerthen everything goes back to single15:26
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danielsdolfun_beer: er, setting pixel doubling will do that for you15:26
danielsdolfun_beer: well, that'll double the entire screen15:26
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dolfun_beeri'd like to set doubling and prevent it from going back to single15:26
danielsdolfun_beer: the video stuff in XSP is completely broken, apparently, because we had no apps to test it with until someone tried with the 770 media player on the n80015:27
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danielsdolfun_beer: okay, so use XSPSetPixelDoubling, and it'll stay doubled until you ask it not to15:27
daniels(the entire screen will be doubled)15:27
dolfun_beeractually no, only the current putrect15:27
dolfun_beerand a number of sdl functions set it back15:27
dolfun_beeri need to lock it to 'on', so i am trying to figure out xsp internals15:28
dolfun_beerdaniels: if you have any* sdl demos that work, i would really like to see them15:28
dolfun_beeralternately i can share code that doesn't work :)15:28
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dolfun_beeri've looked at Tak's fceu and xmame, and he's only setting XSPSetPixelDoubling once after SDL Init, and it's staying on15:29
danielswhat do you mean, 'it's staying on'?15:29
dolfun_beerthe region is staying doubled15:30
dolfun_beerfor me, only current putrect is staying doubled, then everything goes back to single15:30
danielsyou call XSPSetPixelDoubling, the whole screen is pixel doubled, and then it goes back to not being pixel doubled?15:30
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dolfun_beerSDL_LockSurface seems to disable it for e.g.15:30
dolfun_beerSDL_Flip seems to disable it15:31
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dolfunhowever, i haven't set XSPRegisterDSPArea.  Is that a problem?15:33
danielsno, ignore the DSP area stuff15:34
dolfunwhat would be the best way to get help on this15:36
dolfuni've gone though the entire maemo devel mailing list archives15:37
dolfuni've studied the fceu and xmame source15:38
danielsyou could try creating a 400x240 sdl surface, instead of an 800x48015:38
danielsdue to the design of our lcd controller, doing an 800x480 update will always clear pixel doubling15:38
danielsso i'd guess that what's happening especially on flip is that you're sending an 800x480 update to x15:39
danielsrather than 400x24015:39
dolfunah, yes i had to set the sdl win to 800x48015:39
dolfunotherwise i was getting blackscreen15:39
dolfuni'll set up a page with demos (broken) showing various sdl implementations15:40
dolfunand then write to the mailing list.15:40
dolfunbut that's a very good hint there15:42
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zwnjhey, i can't find out how to add new repos, when there's no way to edit files out of MyDocs.  is there any howto around?15:47
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dolfuni generally edit repositories by opening xterm and editing /etc/apt/sources.list15:51
dolfunor ssh-ing into the nokia15:52
dolfunrequires root15:52
dolfunyou can also do it directly in application manager, i think15:52
kulveyeah, app.mgr. edits sources.list too, when you add repositories (catelogues)16:00
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dolfunhi kender16:19
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kenderhey dolfun :)16:19
dolfunwhat's new?16:21
kenderhere, testing the new firmware16:21
kendera little bit disapointing16:21
s100useranyone knows if the dsp on the 770 can decode mpeg2 by hardware?16:22
dolfunkender, video playbackwise?  hi s100user16:22
dolfuns100user: have you tried mplayer for 770?16:23
s100useryes. mplayer works16:23
s100userbut I'm streaming dvb-s.. which is too much for the cpu16:23
kenderdolfun, video playback is better now, but the codecs quantity is the same (afaik)16:23
s100user768x576@25fps and about 700kbytes/s16:23
s100userit just chockes...16:24
s100useron /dev/dsp/something there's a mpeg2 reference16:24
s100userso it "might" be able to do mpeg2 by hw.. just like a dvd player..16:24
s100userso, the question is: how?16:24
kenderyeah, someone asked just the same in the mailing some weeks ago16:25
dolfunsetting it to 400x240 gives me blackscreen, and when i have mousemovement i get a bunch of 1x/2x trash onscreen16:29
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s100userthere's no way to resize the stream... it's a live DVB-S feed...16:32
s100userunless I transcode it on another machine...16:32
s100userbut that's not what I wanted...16:32
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zwnjdolfun_bier: behdad suggested so, but i should add a new repo before installing xterm...  and seems MaemoPad doesn't give me access to out of MyDocs16:59
kulvezwnj: if you want to add a repo and install xterm from there, use the application manager. That's what it's for.17:01
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zwnjkulve: oh, i didn't see the Catalog list.  tnx17:04
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zwnjhum, now i get "E Failed to fetch 401 Unauthorized [IP: 80]"17:18
zwnjalso for non-free and extras17:18
zwnji used to get 401 error for Nokia Catalogues from other wifi access last night too17:19
kulvethat sounds odd..17:20
kulvethe repos I have updates ok17:21
zwnji get "Authorization Required" ... "Apache/1.3.33 Server at Port 80" from the browser too17:21
zwnji.e. this one:
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kkitohello :)17:25
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kkitosomeone has updated the n800 with the new release?17:40
kkitokulve, do you recommend to me to update?17:41
kulvebackup & restore works nicely, but you'll have to install all applications back17:41
kkitokulve, and the sources are backup too?17:42
kulveAnd I wouldn't trust the backup, so if you have something really important, backup it manually too17:42
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kkitothen i am going to update my device....17:42
kulveat least it did restore it on my device..17:42
kulveyou should get better video throughput and fewer spontaneous resets.. So I think it's definitely worth updating17:43
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kulveand all the little apps I've made for the first release installed and worked just fine on the new release17:44
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kkitois pixel doubling running on that release?17:46
kkitoa changelog anywhere?17:46
kulvechangelog is pretty useless, as always17:47
kulveI think the pixel doubling should work, but I haven't seen a confirmation for that..17:47
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kulvethe "changelog":
kulveit's the same as in the official location17:48
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neostriderso...maemo people...whats going on?18:01
kulvethe sun is setting18:04
neostridernot here ;-)18:04
neostriderhere, is noon18:04
kenderhere noon to18:05
kenderwell, afternoon18:05
kenderhehe18:05 is precisely noon18:06
* cesman gets ready to demo N800 at the OCLUG18:09
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Maku|N800Apologies for frequent logoffs, my xchat was behaving strangely...18:15
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Maku|N800Is the menu in new minimo not working? I even saw an announcement regarding it using tabs... How do i activate these tabs?18:23
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neostriderHow can I get minimo on 770?!18:36
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bj1anyone here broken their flash by burning out their FAT/inode table?19:21
bj1or worse.. by swapping?19:21
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koenbjv: most cards do internal wear leveling19:39
koennot all, though19:39
bjvah, somewhere i had heard that19:42
bjvthat flash structure is weird so block abstraction is used19:42
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guerbyhmm I have plenty of the following in dmesg:21:22
guerby[72187.459960] EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled21:22
guerby[72194.266571] EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled21:22
guerbyevery five second or so, any idea?21:22
OkkoIt's normal, it's the sound subsystem going on and off when it plays a "click" sound or something else21:25
guerbyOkko, wow21:27
OkkoI don't know why it logs it there, maybe it's just some debugging that has been forgotten to be turned off21:28
guerbyOkko, probably21:30
guerbyOkko, even with sound off I get those messages...21:31
Okkoguerby: it probably still turns on and then notices that you have sound off and won't actually play anything. Do you have good headphones?21:32
Okkoyou can hear it turn on if you do, there's a low humming sound when it's on21:32
guerbyOkko, funny :)21:32
Okkoand somewhat annoying, the humming sound I mean21:33
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maddlershackan: oila`!22:09
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Lounishi, I have juste upgrade to the new firmware version of ITOS2007, When I browse the maemo garage I have certificat secure problem , and I can't install any application22:25
Lounisdo you know this problem?22:25
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Markovi can't see downloads.maemo on my tablet23:06
Markovor on my pc ;)23:09
juhoits broken23:10
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Markovapparently so23:10
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OkkoHas anyone tried to connect a digital camera to the N800? Does it work without an external power supply?23:49
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