IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-03-19

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bipolarhas anyone found a fix for the memory leak that causes the n800 to reboot all the time?00:11
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bipolarkkito: ping00:33
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Tenkawabipolar: i havent seen this problem with my n80000:34
Tenkawayou running any custom apps/00:34
Tenkawaer ?00:34
bipolarCustom? yeah. lots of custom stuff. :)00:35
Tenkawait may be one of those apps00:35
bipolarI remember someone talking about a memory leak in the sound system.00:35
bipolarthat causes reboots00:35
Tenkawahmm.. havent seen it here00:35
bipolarAnd it seems to be related. system sounds cause reboots. :\00:36
TenkawaI turned the system sounds mostly off00:37
Tenkawathey were annoying00:37
bipolarTenkawa: heh... maybe thats why you're not seeing reboots :)00:38
Tenkawacould be :)00:38
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dolfunis cross-compiling with qemu generally accurate?00:44
dolfuni can't make the question any better really00:45
dolfuni'm using toolchain cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm to compile to latest OS 2006 release (mistral)00:47
bipolardolfun: you can only get more accurate if you compileon the native hardware.00:47
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bipolardolfun: personaly, I'd rather just crosscompile on x86.00:48
dolfunmost ppl seem to be doing that00:48
* bipolar needs to setup a maemo devel enviroment00:48
dolfunhmm my sources.list in the sdk_armel is gregale, but on the 770 it is mistral00:50
dolfundo you think that could cause problems?00:50
dolfuni compared the libraries i am using and they are identical00:51
dolfunbeginning to flail here :/  i'll try a simple sdl demo00:54
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bipolarwhat scratchbox toolchains do I need for n800 development?01:39
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dolfunbipolar: here's a link
dolfunI just wrota a cool new sdl app01:46
dolfunit gives you a black screen requiring reboot01:46
dolfunmy undoubler program didn't fix it either (?) urhm01:49
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LinuxApeis there a citrix client fot the n800?01:54
dolfunif there is one, and it's not findable with google, then the authors don't want to share it01:57
Takdolfun: sounds like you're having fun01:58
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dolfuntrying to figure out why my build of your fceu is giving me trashy doubling02:00
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Takyou're building my source?02:00
dolfunyeah.  and now working with a tiny sdl demo that sets/unsets doubling02:00
dolfuni suspect something is wrong with my SDK_armel02:01
Takheh, I made a little thing to do that too02:01
dolfundo you have a couple of minutes?02:01
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Takeh, not really - maybe tomorrow ?02:04
dolfunok thanks02:05
dolfunif you could put the sdl demo up, i'd like to compare notes02:06
dolfunbut i think it's my build environment02:06
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bipolarCan anyone tell me which scratchbox toolkit I need to install to compile for the n800? It's a bit confusing. there are at least 6 diffrent deb packages in the repo02:47
bipolaris it gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 ?02:48
bipolarer... not toolkit... toolchain02:49
unique311Giimp for maemo??perty please....02:53
unique311call it Gimpy02:53
dolfunah maybe my cpu transparency is wrong02:54
unique311dolfun you a dev, right?02:56
dolfunsince last week yeah02:58
dolfungoes to show how great maemo+scratchbox is02:58
dolfunwanna see a lot of toolchains bipolar?
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dolfun./me tries a gregale just for laffs03:11
neostriderunique311 , are you there?03:11
neostriderdoes anybody knows if unique311 is going to come back03:15
dolfunbipolar: check out
neostrideranybody knows if he have a webpage, of something like tha03:15
neostrideri must talk to him03:15
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dolfunbeen away for 27 minutes neostrider03:16
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neostriderunique311 ?03:16
neostrideryesterday you asked about MaemoWizard, right?03:16
neostrider(thanks dolfun)03:16
unique311i read the response..03:17
neostriderim the author =-D03:17
unique311something about sdl03:17
neostriderif you have a SDL application, it can help you to build a maemo debian package for it03:17
neostriderno miracle03:17
neostriderbut worked for me03:17
* dolfun will look into MaemoWizard too03:18
unique311I remember you neostrider03:18
unique311did you ever finish the gimp port?03:18
neostriderim remember you too =-D03:18
neostriderI remember you too03:18
neostriderI saw something good and already done03:18
neostridera paint application that I think is more suitable for maemo03:19
unique311i use maemopad+03:19
neostriderdunno that03:19
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unique311have any screenshots of the paint app?03:19
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neostriderbetter than that03:19
neostriderthe webpage03:19
unique311i tried it..03:20
unique311didn't work03:20
unique311something about the browser not being compatible03:20
neostridertell me unique31103:21
neostriderwhat you're going to do with MaemoWizard03:21
neostriderI want you to test it for me =-D03:21
neostrideryou too dolfun03:21
unique311i just wanted info on what maemowizard did..03:22
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unique311not planning on using it..03:22
neostriderbrb ... snack03:22
dolfunroger wilco.  i'll make a straightforward Ur-Quan Masters deb right after i do a couple of tests03:22
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dolfunok back onto Dev_PLatform_v.2.0 (mistral) to match the 77003:33
dolfunchecking target system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnu03:38
dolfunis that bad for an armel build environment?03:38
neostriderare you going to use MaemoWizard?03:39
dolfunseems to build fine03:39
dolfunyeah i just reconfigured my target03:40
dolfunwhere's the latest version?03:40
dolfunok got my sdl demo ready03:44
dolfun"rename the $(B!H(Btemplate folder$(B!I(B the name of your project03:44
dolfunmy sdl project has no template folder03:44
neostriderthe template directory03:44
neostriderno no03:45
neostriderunzip the maemowizard file03:45
neostriderthere will be a "template" folder03:45
neostridercopy your demos to that folder03:45
neostriderand run the script03:45
dolfundoh ok03:45
neostridereverything ready?03:46
neostrider( can do this inside and outside scratchbox...I would recommend to do that the host envirotment can be more flexible)03:47
dolfunok ran mass-modify03:47
dolfunls debian03:48
dolfunchangelog  compat  control  copyright  files  postinst  rule03:48
dolfunnow dpkg-buildpackage?03:48
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dolfuni think i should have copied Makefile into 'project name' folder03:53
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dolfunok reran MaemoWIzard outside of scratchbox, with Makefile and fire.c in the renamed template folder03:56
bipolardolfun: thanks!03:59
dolfunbipolar: that seems to be the definitive word on toolchain-to-use04:00
bipolardolfun: indeed04:02
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dolfunneostrider: are you there?04:08
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neostriderlet me see it04:09
dolfuni ran mass-modify outside of scratchbox04:09
dolfunand the only source files were Makefile and fire.c04:10
dolfunhow is your script going to compile a arm binary outside of scratchbox?04:10
neostridernow, you move it to inside scratchbox04:11
dolfunnow i await instructions04:11
neostriderand do the dpkg thing04:11
dolfuni am new to dpkg.  i  dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d  ?04:11
neostrider(sorry if I left you with no clues...multiple desktops can be fatal)04:11
neostrideri guess i use -b instead of -d04:11
neostriderlet me check04:12
neostrideri use -b04:12
dolfunok i run it from which directory?04:12
neostriderfrom the "directory formely known as 'template'" =-)04:13
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dolfun# Add here commands to configure the package.04:14
dolfunCFLAGS="-Wall -g -O2" ./configure --prefix=/usr --disable-static04:14
dolfunconfigure: error: cannot run /bin/sh ./config.sub04:14
dolfunthere is no config.sub  in the directory04:14
dolfunthe source files had no subdirectories04:14
neostriderlet me check here04:14
neostriderVERY strange04:14
neostriderthere must be two visible and one invisible subdirs04:15
dolfuni see a problem, my user info is broken04:15
neostriderhow come?04:15
neostridertry it as fakeroot04:15
dolfuni reinstalled my template, and it dest... hmm ok04:15
neostrider(i clearly see everything inside the zip)04:16
neostriderhey...try this:04:16
neostriderunzip maemowizard again04:16
neostridercopy the template folder to scratchbox and do the dpkg directly04:16
dolfuni see the config.sub directory now04:16
neostriderwithout running mass-modify or copying anything to it04:16
dolfunlrwxrwxrwx  1 1000 1000     75 Mar 19 02:12 config.sub -> /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/libtool/share/libtool/config.sub04:17
neostriderif this procedure works, everything should be fine for you too04:17
dolfunok i try04:17
neostrider(the only bug I've detected is if your project name starts with B - my project is called BZK. I had to use a silly "gazoo" name)04:18
dolfunok question04:18
dolfunwhen asked to provide the source code, enter the names of the source files of your application. make sure to provide the exact names and to not forget any file.04:18
dolfunif my application has 1000 source files, i need to type every file?04:18
dolfunor just files in current directory, and the names of the subdirectories that contain the source?04:19
neostriderfor have to type every single .c or .cpp file04:20
neostridersoon it will be fixed04:20
dolfunok then i do a find for .c04:20
neostriderthis is a very sloppy script04:20
neostriderbut im improving it04:20
dolfunit is helpful!04:20
neostriderI will do that internally04:20
neostriderthe script?04:21
neostriderI hope so04:21
neostrider"im just scratching a personal itch"04:21
dolfuncan i send you mail with more detailed feedback when i learn more?04:21
neostrideryour feedback is everything I need to improve it04:22
dolfunok, question 204:22
dolfun- when asked about $(B!H(Bproject$(B!G(Bs old name$(B!I(B, inform $(B!H(Btemplate$(B!I(B04:22
dolfunsorry for formatting04:22
dolfunwhy do i type "template"04:23
dolfunyou can make that default, yes?04:23
neostriderI tried04:23
neostriderbut when the renaming step starts, it tries to rename too04:24
neostriderim thinking of now ways to arrange the files04:24
neostriderit will be needed to allow simple detection of multiple source files04:24
neostriderand for data files too04:24
dolfunok, then just a little point, change order of asking from NewName / OldName to Oldname / Newname04:24
dolfunto match instructions04:24
dolfunah ok04:25
neostriderI will =-)04:26
neostriderI released that version in a hurry04:26
neostriderits working?04:26
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dolfunhm no i have no user in /etc/passwd04:30
dolfunok fixed04:32
dolfuni can not run mass-modify again, correct?04:32
neostriderwell, you actually can...04:32
dolfunok trying04:32
neostriderbut I cant guarantee it wont fry your PC04:32
dolfunwhen entering "source code files" one does not enter 'Makefile' correct?04:33
neostrideras Makefile will be a file modified by this step04:34
dolfunok i found the error with config.sub04:35
dolfunconfig.sub -> /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/libtool/share/libtool/config.sub04:35
dolfuni have no libtool directory04:35
neostriderwhat is your SDK?04:36
dolfun? i called it SDK_ARMEL04:37
dolfun apt-cache policy libtool  Installed: 1.5.6-6osso04:37
dolfuni have cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm04:37
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neostriderI've tested it with mistral SDK04:38
dolfunthat is the toolchain i have04:38
dolfuni have mistral SDK here04:38
neostriderand scirocco running on device04:39
dolfunwhat is in your /scratchbox/compilers/04:39
dolfuncs2005q3.2-glibc-arm  cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386  host-gcc04:39
neostriderlet me check04:39
neostriderdaniel@sandbox:~$ ls /scratchbox/compilers/04:40
neostriderbin  cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm  cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386  host-gcc04:40
neostriderthe same04:40
dolfunwhat does your config.sub link to?04:41
neostriderhow do I check that?04:41
dolfuni mean in the template dir04:41
dolfunls -al config.sub04:41
neostrider[sbox-SDK_PC: ~/gazoo] > ls -al config.sub04:42
neostriderls: unrecognized prefix: su04:42
neostriderls: unparsable value for LS_COLORS environment variable04:42
neostriderlrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           75 Feb 23 00:09 config.sub -> /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/libtool/share/libtool/config.sub04:42
dolfuni have no libtool directory under cs2006q3.2-glibc-arm.  that is why thebuildpackage is breaking04:42
neostriderhow did you installed the SDK?04:43
neostrider(the template is made after bomberman. Klaus Rotter gently allowed me to modify his files and use in MaemoWizard)04:44
dolfunyes sb-menu lets you create new targets04:44
dolfunsb-config is outdated (i have scratchbox 1.0.7)04:45
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neostrideri have sb 0.98 i guess04:46
neostriderthis SDK installation is quite old04:46
neostriderhave you installed everything manually?04:47
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neostridermaemo installer?04:49
dolfuni installed scratchbox via apt04:50
dolfunthen i added user, then group, then relogged in04:50
dolfunthen i added "build targets" for i386 and armel with sb-menu04:50
dolfuni will look at the config.sub problem soon - i need to read about debian packaging04:52
dolfun(away 10 minutes, food)04:52
neostriderwhen you come back, answer this: have you successfully built any source package floating around the web?04:55
dolfunno jsut .tgz04:57
dolfunmy libtool is here04:58
dolfunok  ln -s /usr/share/libtool/config.guess config.guess // ln -s /usr/share/libtool/config.sub config.sub05:01
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dolfunok so for newer scratchbox neostrider i think you need to change symlinks for: cnofig.sub, config.guess *and* ltmain.sh05:08
neostriderI will try this you have any IM?05:09
dolfunno just irc05:10
dolfunbut we can make another channel #maemowizard if you want05:10
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neostriderim there05:37
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bipolarthis is weird05:39
bipolarapt wont work from inside my target shells in scratchbos05:39
bipolarer... scratchbox05:39
bipolarsays it cant resolve hosts... yet I can use wget just fine05:39
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bipolarwell, I'll have to look at it tomorrow. gnight all!05:41
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neostridersee ya fellows!06:06
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dolfunbad scratchbox.  no biscuit.06:20
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dolfunanybody else using recent scratchbox (1.0.7)?06:45
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dolfunheh, packaging involves more learning than i expected09:33
dolfunand the upstream maintainer is no less than joey hess09:34
dolfunsome issues i've run into: 1) required libraries not available for mistral/armel.  I have compiled them, but haven't packed them.  Do i just cheat and include the libs in my package, or try to package them and submit them to the mistral repo?09:37
kulveI think you should get the proper packages to the repo09:38
c0ffeethe latter09:41
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dolfunroger that09:46
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JaffaMorning, all10:39
keesjHi Jaffa10:40
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AD-N770good morning11:15
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cosmo__anyone tested clawsmail yet?11:17
bardaxgood morning11:17
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dolfunof all the apps hyped as belonging off local devices and onto a webservice, i think email makes the most sense11:23
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mk8Hi to all ...11:27
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cosmo__hm, claws does not even start :(11:32
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dolfunA smart programmer could probably implement hq2x scaling on the 770 DSP12:10
maddlermorning all...12:15
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bedboihi there.12:27
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bedboiare there mentors that have applied to maemo ?12:40
dolfunwhat do you mean?12:43
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maddlerbedboi: ciao!12:57
bedboihey maddler12:57
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maddlerbedboi: I was considering about applying...12:57
bedboiapply as a mentor or as a student?12:57
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bedboiif i will apply as a mentor i would like to mentor the "dasher as keyboard" that i have proposed12:59
maddleryep... it's nice...12:59
maddlermy doubt is that I'm not a programmer...12:59
bedboibtw i would like first to ask to some nokia guy if there is any internal policy or something12:59
maddlerbedboi: internal policy>12:59
maddleras far as I know... nokia won't be involved at all in SoC13:01
Zentonhi all13:02
Zentonis maemo associated to only one device?13:02
Zentonis there plan to port it to other devices?13:02
inzWell, there's 770 and N800, which makes already two ;)13:05
Zentonhehe ;)13:06
inzAnd nitpicking even more maemo is the sdk, and doesn't actually run on the devices13:06
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Zentondont wanna start a flamewar,13:11
ZentonI have also reading things about openmoko13:11
Zentonseems an interesting project too13:11
Zentonwhy should I rather maemo instead?13:11
kulveread the hw specs and decide yourself13:12
ZentonI see13:13
kulveI think they are quite different devices for different uses13:13
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Zentonyeah, that's a good reason13:13
Veggenmaemo/N800/770 is *not* a phone. Openmoko is.13:14
VeggenBut openmoko isn't a tablet ;)13:14
kulveyep. I think one needs them both ;)13:14
inzBut you don't get a guitar pick with N800/770 :(13:15
kulvebut openmoko (or the hw) is not 3g?13:15
Veggenno, probably not.13:15
VeggenI think those devices are not so mature, yet.13:15
kulveI think a 3g phone is a must, when I eventually upgrade my 4 year old phone..13:15
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Zentonthanks for your answers :)13:17
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Superbiadamn it's slow installing rails on the n800 :S13:26
maddlerZenton: there is a new tablet coming from China...13:30
maddlerwhich is supposed to be using Maemo13:30
Superbiasweet, I got websupport in metasploit ^^ no more tiny console crap13:32
Superbiamaddler; I been some info in that machine... seems like a N800 with hdd basiclly ^^13:33
cosmo__Superbia: do you know why there is no real official information about it?13:33
cosmo__it's not even known if it is made in cooperation with nokia or is it some kind of weird reverse-engineering or reimplementation13:34
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Superbiacosmo__; as I understood it, it was a reverse-engineered machine but not sure... site was in chinese... :S13:35
Superbia <-- this is kinda funky :)13:38
Superbiawonder when there will be a emu like that for maemo :)13:38
cosmo__just port dosbox13:39
cosmo__or qemu13:39
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bedboii have applied for mentoring @ maemo14:03
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* zulla is the guy behind and says hi!15:27
zullathanks, cosmo.15:27
cosmo__oh, great ;)15:28
cosmo__we just talked about H9 earlier today15:28
zullai joined the channel some 15 minutes ago.15:28
zullaMaybe I can answer some questions about the H9?15:29
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* Jaffa wonders if it'd be cynical to ascribe the comments about the H9 not being end-user ready and feeling unpolished and rushed to the N800 as well ;-)15:35
zullaJaffa: The n800 is definitely more polished.15:36
zullaJaffa: both hardware and software-wise.15:36
JaffaBlimey, the H9's s/w stack must be *really* unstable then.15:36
* Jaffa has high hopes that the next few iterations of N800 firmware will dramatically improve the situation (when they appear.)15:37
zullaIt took me a few seconds to crash the H9.15:37
zullaand screen display repaints were incomplete here and there.15:37
zullabut that's not a real test, of course, and I assume that it was a prototype.15:38
JaffaWhereas on the N800 it takes as long as it takes to type in certain RSS feed addresses ;-)15:38
* Jaffa takes your point, just in a facetious mood :)15:38
timelessjaffa: you must be using the rss reader desktop applet15:39
timelessthat's your first mistake :)15:39
Jaffatimeless: Nah, I read the bug reports and never subscribed to any additional feeds. Then the RSS reader decided to delete the subscriptions to the default feeds too, so I gave up.15:39
lle2I've never understood how rss feeds would be so hard to handle?15:40
timelessat least it talked you out of using it15:40
zullaas you can see in the photos, the H9 is pretty big. 7 inch screen - it was in the specs, but I didn't realize what it means until I saw the thing.15:40
timelesslle2: please don't tell me you never thought html would be hard to handle :)15:40
suihkulokkille2: rss feed items contain html15:40
timelessrss = rss, atom, rdf, html all in one15:41
timelessit's a combinatoric problem15:41
timelessor something15:41
* Jaffa would prefer the HTML was thrown away rather than passed on to gtkhtml (or similar) and cause segfaults15:41
lle2timeless: no, I never thought that, but come on, the device has a more or less functioning browser15:41
timelesslle2: you know the stories of using the browser for mail and help, right? :(15:42
timelessbut ignoring that, i blame the UI team :)15:42
lle2maybe, not sure if there are new stories ;)15:42
timelessno, these are old stories15:42
lle2ok, well then probably. but I don't care15:43
timelessif there are new stories, you wouldn't hear about them here :)15:43
timelessanyway, people should just use
timelessas you said, the device has a mostly working web browser15:43
timelessor something15:43
timelessjust don't try to save a chess file from a web server to your device15:43
* timeless grumbles15:43
lle2you could just rip off all html and use a terminal + less to display the feeds, would beat the current shit without breaking a newline15:44
kkitosomeone wants to work with me to integrate some kdeapps to maemo?15:44
kkitoi use kmail and akregator, it has html support using khtml15:45
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timelesswhy didn't someone include a ruler when they took pictures of the h9?15:45
timelessoh great15:45
timelessoutlook just informed me that i have a meeting 7 weeks overdue15:45
lle2it's too big? they didn't have anything measure miles with?15:45
lle2on a related note: my n73 seems to be incapable of receiving phone calls..15:47
kkitoi use amarok to play my music collection...15:47
bergietimeless: here's a quite good size comparison:
suihkulokkikkito: did you find a way to input?15:48
kkitosuihkulokki, i am using xvkbd, but i'll may try to integrate with the maemo vkbd15:49
kkitoi implemented an ungly tap and hold for qt apps15:50
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kkitoit simulates a right click,...15:50
* tzz is annoyed, the N800 is in a reboot loop after running out of memory last night (RSS reader + web browser running) and last backup was a month ago15:50
tzzlast time this happened, I waited until the morning and it worked (maybe the cleanup script worked, if there is such a thing).  So I hope I don't have to reflash it tonight.15:53
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derftzz: Did you put it in R&D mode and kill the watchdogs?16:09
dragornyou can also try flashing just the initfs first and maybe save yourself the hassle of a full flash16:11
tzzderf: no, I will try that tonight, thanks16:15
tzzdragorn: I'll try this too after the watchdogs16:15
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melmothtu fais des pile de pieds ?16:19
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timelesssp3000: i need a place to complain about people renaming things16:35
bipolardoes anyone know what would caused networking to fail inside of scratchbox? I just installed and am sitting at the scratchbox target prompt. apt-get is failing becouse: Could not resolve ''16:36
timelessbiploar: proxies are the usual fun edge :)16:38
melmothwrong entry in /etc/resolv.conf or no dns in for host in /etc/nsswitch.conf16:38
timelesssometimes you can have more amusing things like /etc/resolve.conf16:38
Takdon't you have to remove mdns from hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf as well?16:39
* timeless doesn't even know what mdns is :)16:39
bipolaryes, I looked at /etc/resolv.conf and it had the nameserver set to but changing that to the real nameserver didn't fix it.16:39
Taknor do I, but I read that you have to remove it ;-)16:39
bipolarmelmoth: what could be wrong with nsswitch.conf?16:40
bipolarTak: there is no mention of mdns in nsswitch.conf16:41
bipolarhosts:      files dns16:41
melmothwell, it looks correct16:41
Taklooks ok to me then16:41
timelessstrace -f is your friend16:41
Takmine originally had:  "hosts: files dns mdns"16:42
timelessattach to the scratchbox shell and try nslookup16:42
bipolarwget works16:42
melmothmay be restarting thingy ?16:42
melmothohh, then name resolution works16:42
melmothmay be there is a sort of name caching that remember there was no name for mamoe.repository....16:43
timelessouch, someone's attacking me16:43
bipolarwell, using wget to download the packages.gz file works too16:43
timelessthey better not be spidering me16:43
melmothbipolar: a typo in your sources.list ?16:44
bipolarmelmoth: no, I copied what apt said failed, and used wget to get it.16:45
melmothi have no clue ....16:47
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bipolarthis is weird16:49
bipolaron the host system, there is a file /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf, which is diffrent then whats inside the target shell. it's screwed up16:49
bipolaryep. that fixed it16:50
sp3000timeless: can you get the name-changers properly hooked on something to make them feel the pain of renames? ;)16:53
timelessi wish16:54
timelessbut my scripts have just pulled the second week (almost) after the rename16:54
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bipolarI guess no one has tried to build gnucash yet....16:55
Takthat sounds like a nightmare16:58
Takgnucash is what finally drove me away from slackware16:58
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timelessif none of these options17:02
timeless              is specified, by SIGTERM.17:02
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bipolarTak: hehe... but it would be really cool to have it on my handheld :)17:10
bipolarTak: I've run it remotely and there is plenty of pixels for it17:10
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Takoh, I'm sure17:18
ncharonanyone know anything about PhoneLink and configuring a .gnokiirc file for a Siemens telephone?17:18
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timelesssp3000: how do i find out who owns a function?17:31
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bipolarjeez.... how the heck did I screw up my x86 target17:41
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bipolarif I want to rebuild my X86 target exactly as it was when I installed scratchbox, what else must I do other then extract the x86 rootstrap image?18:01
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s-ndh-cbipolar: maybe select the same devkits and install necessary files to the target after extracting the rootstrap18:05
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bipolars-ndh-c: the problem is that after extracting the x86 rootstrap,  apt is completely confused and wants to remove all the hildon development packages when upgrading.18:06
s-ndh-csure your apt is setup correctly?18:07
bipolars-ndh-c: it's setup as it is in the rootstrap... let me pastebin whats going on...18:07
s-ndh-ci would reset the target to be sure it "clean"18:07
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s-ndh-cand then set it up the way you did before18:08
bipolars-ndh-c: I'll try that. here's what it's doing:
jwbanybody successfully gotten the n800 to grok ogg?18:09
bipolars-ndh-c: ok. I reset it, then extracted maemo-sdk-rootstrap_3.0_i386.tgz. I get the same problems I put in pastebin18:11
bipolarI know I'm just missing something18:11
bipolarthe script set it all up for me18:12
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s-ndh-cbipolar: not sure, never had that problem, but i didnt use that install script18:13
bipolars-ndh-c: am I correct that all I should have to do is create the target, then extract the rootstrap to it?18:13
s-ndh-cbipolar: you should select the needed devkits too and install the files for them after extracting the rootsrap18:15
bipolars-ndh-c: thats done in sb-menu, right?18:16
bipolar[X] Devkits    Install files needed by devkits18:17
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bipolarthats not the actual devkits though....18:17
bipolars-ndh-c: the devkits are installed to the host file system, correct?18:20
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bipolarI'm running the script again. I'll backup what it creates as a custom rootstrap18:25
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unique311qt apps can't be ported to n800?18:43
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bipolarunique311: um... depends what you mean by 'port'18:43
bipolarunique311: you can compile and run just about anything on the n80018:44
unique311not sure if it matters..the source is not available anyways..18:44
bipolarunique311: can't do anything without source code18:44
unique311a bunch of zuarus paint apps i want on the n80018:44
bipolarunique311: ahh18:44
bipolarunique311: QT has been compiled for the n800, but not packaged.18:45
bipolarunique311: there are also integration issues. the onscreen keyboard doesn't work with non-hildon apps18:45
inzsomeone should implement QT as a wrapper for Gtk ;)18:45
bipolarunique311: someone has even compiled Kde and run it on an n800.18:46
unique311i saw kde video18:46
unique311Im just hoping for a descent paint program or sketch...18:47
unique311only reason i purchased the n800..18:47
sxpert-workunique311: then write your own :D18:47
* sxpert-work ducks18:47
Takinz: I had the ambition to do that a few years ago18:48
unique311not a developer18:48
sp3000isn't maemopadplus reasonable18:48
unique311it is..18:48
unique311don't get me wrong..18:48
inzTak, I've thought of that too, many times, as I just hate qt ;)18:48
sp3000though it was a bit weird wrt managing pages the last time I looked18:48
unique311smudge tool would be nice on it18:48
* bipolar wonders how anyone could hate qt18:48
TakI guess I just don't have the motivation, as there's just not that one killer qt app that I can't live without18:49
sp3000desktop, apply directly to the forehead18:49
sp3000=> instand blur :D18:49
sp3000instant, even18:49
unique311a couple of hits for gimp on maemo...but nothing good18:49
sxpert-workunique311: you should ask pippin about it18:49
sxpert-workunique311: I think he has something18:49
unique311pippin around?18:50
roopepippin had some nice stuff for the 770. not sure if it's ported to n800.18:50
roopepressure sensitive painting, anti-aliased brushes etc.18:51
bipolardoes anyone know off the top of their head how to setup an apt repo in such a way that packages will only be installed if I specifiy that repo?18:51
roopeThen again, you couldn't actually use the drawings for anything, since there was no saving or exporting. :)18:51
roopewhich was a bit unfortunate...18:52
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zyxulnag1bipolar: comment and uncomment the entry in sources.list18:52
zyxulnag1then run update18:53
bipolarzyxulnag1: heh... the hackish way :)18:53
zyxulnag1to refresh the pkg list18:53
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bipolarI remember using something with apt pinning before, I just can't find it now....18:53
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bipolaroh well... I'll just use the deb-src and not the deb lines :)18:53
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bipolarkkito: ping19:04
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kkitobipolar, :) pong19:09
bipolarkkito: hey! hows the qt work coming?19:10
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bipolarkkito: that good, eh?19:16
kkitosorry i am calling19:17
bipolarhehe... no apologies nessisary.. I was just harassing you :)19:18
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zyxulnag1is there a way to get a snapshot of my current nokia installation and then mirror it into another device?19:34
zyxulnag1like some flash extraction19:34
zyxulnag1i am runnong on the n80019:34
plaeslooks sexy ;)19:36
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roopeA bit on the small side. :)19:36
MoRpHeUzkkito: nice pics! =)19:38
mk8Hi .... I go out ... bye19:39
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Jaffakkito: can you shrink the font size in the UI easily?19:40
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dragornanyone gotten a maemo 2.2 and a maemo 3.0 rootfs to play nice in the same scratchbox install, or would I be wiser to make a new system for the 2.219:40
kkitono more images :P19:41
kkitoJaffa, you can configure kde apps with kcontrol, it is full configurable, font sizes, key bindings, etc etc...19:41
kkitoand mouse gestures19:41
kkitoor stylus gestures :P19:42
dragornok, now thats the first good use-case i've heard for mouse gestures in apps19:44
c0ffeedragorn, there's a short description how to do that on syslog.movial.fi19:44
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dragornc0ffee: Cool, looking.  Happen to remember the headline, looks like it'ps scrolled off the front page by now (or, I'm stupid.  Entirely possible, my brain didn't seem to start this morning.)19:46
dragornThe cairo performance post was particularly interesting, however, since I'm about to deal w/ an app which might be moving to cairo19:47
tkokkito, ooh, please post those to the mailing list if you haven't already19:48
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c0ffeedragorn, no, sorry. it's a rather old post19:49
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bipolarkkito: ok... i want. what do I have to do?19:50
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kkito i did a post on internettablettalk with the screenshots19:51
kkitobipolar, oh i must to work a lot more on it until i realize something19:52
bipolarkkito: aww.....19:52
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* timeless sighs19:54
timelesscan someone tell me where the *right* git repository is? :(19:54
kkitooh i miss to take some kopete screenshots19:55
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tkotimeless, it's right next to the left one I'd expect19:58
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[mbm]kde on a tablet? you people are sick.20:32
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Tenkawa[mbm]: I'd say that with kde on anything20:34
* Tak agrees20:34
Tenkawa[mbm]: hey do I know you from another project?20:34
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kkito[mbm], what is the problem?20:34
TenkawaAnyone know if trying to run scratchbox on a Via C3 would cause an illegal instruction due to some missing cpu features needed for the cross execution?20:35
TenkawaI get illegal instruction on this box just trying to run sb-menu20:35
[mbm]Tenkawa: openwrt?20:35
Tenkawaalthough it runs fine on a regular p4 or athlon20:35
Tenkawa[mbm]: yep thats it20:35
bipolar[mbm]: the pictures seem to indicate it's quite useable too :)20:35
TenkawaI use to own one of the wrt54g channels20:35
TenkawaI think I transitioned it over to you a long time back20:36
bipolarI would love to try it out, but kkito hasn't realeased any packages yet :)20:36
Tenkawa[mbm]: went by just mbm then right?20:36
[mbm]Tenkawa: it switches depending on what machine I'm connected from20:37
Tenkawaits been at least a year or more20:37
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[mbm]kkito: I just object to taking a desktop interface and trying to shoehorn it into the limited resources of the tablet20:37
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[mbm]it's a neat "hey look at me" thing but I don't think it's practical20:38
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Tenkawa[mbm]: think you;d need more than a shoehorn to get kde useable on that small of a tablet20:38
kkito[mbm], i think that you must to try it before20:38
kkitoit runs ok20:39
dragornanyone know a repo with libusb packages?  I suspect I'm stupid, but none of the stuff on likes me, and I haven't been able to find anywhere else with.  The rootfs SDK has it, but the device doesn't.20:39
Takhey, one of you guys didn't happen to be at six flags arlington this friday?20:39
maddlernice! I just made SSH VPN working on N800! :D20:39
maddlernow... let's write a fancy script to handle it...20:40
Tenkawanoone has any thoughts on the illegal instructions eh?20:40
kkito[mbm], and of course, all the apps that i take a screenshot are usable, with good performance20:40
* [mbm] prefers something a little more light weight ..20:41
dragornTenkawa: It's possible, I guess, but qemu is pretty neutral unless you're running kqemu20:41
kkitoi am using amarok every day, it is better than he default media player for me20:41
* [mbm] wonders when someone will port ion20:41
dragorn[mbm]: I've been thinking that too20:41
bipolarkkito: damnit! quit teasing!20:42
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[mbm]I want to keep the cpu as idle as possible to maximize the battery life20:43
kkito[mbm], then get the af-base-apps down :)20:44
Takdimming the screen all the way and changing my wifi to 10mW has made all the difference for me20:45
Takcpu is a drop in the bucket compared to those things20:45
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[mbm]Tak: here it's: dim the screen, drop the wifi to 10mW, disable the wifi scanning, set the wifi idle time, hack the device for suspend mode, disable crap like metacrawler20:46
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[mbm]I do find the battery status to be odd and incredibly misleading20:48
unique311who told me earlier that anything can be compile on the n800 or something similar?20:48
[mbm]I can be at 2/3 bars for the battery and a shutdown/reboot shows it down a bar or at critical20:48
mgedminwell, a reboot uses a lot of cpu power20:49
bipolarunique311: thats would be me :)20:49
bipolarunique311: not that it would be useful :P20:49
mgedminthe battery estimator probably gets confused by that as well20:49
TakI find that stuff like suspend mode and the wifi idle time hack doesn't make any significant difference for me20:49
[mbm]mgedmin: yeah right .. more likely is that the battery status is only calculated at bootup20:49
unique311so i can pretty much find any app that has the source and compile it on the n800?20:49
Takno, I think mgedmin's right20:49
bipolarunique311: to put it very simply, yes20:49
unique311put it very difficult20:50
kkito[mbm], anyways i dont want to replace the maemo desktop ... i want to port some kde apps to maemo, integrating it to the desktop... like kontact, amarok, and koffice20:50
bipolarunique311: the n800 is a computer as much as you're desktop. It simply uses a diffrent CPU achitecture.20:50
TakI haven't seen any significant disparity between the status indicator and actual battery life20:51
bipolarunique311: so if you have access to the source of a program, and the source for any dependant librarys, you can compile it on the n80020:51
Takexcept that the first (top) segment gets about double the lifespan of the other segments20:51
bipolarunique311: there are limitations20:52
mgedminI've noticed that too20:52
[mbm]I'd be happy if the battery meter told me "10% battery" not the "6 hours, oh wait, 4 hours .."20:52
mgedminI usually plug in the charger when I see 3 bars instead of 420:52
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bipolarunique311: the default setup on the n800 uses an on screen keyboard which only works with apps designed to use it.20:53
[mbm]can't seem to find the sources for the battery meter or the api it uses, hence no quick fix20:53
bipolarunique311: so input can be an issue. there is also no good way to do a right/middle click with a touchpad20:53
bipolarunique311: but as an example, look at the work kkito has done getting kde on his n80020:54
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timelesspiloar: err20:55
timelessa touchpad has no problem w/ right click20:55
timelessa touchscreen is different20:55
timelessfor a touchpad, you reserve a region (top right corner)20:55
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bipolartimeless: how does that work fo right clicking on an icon, for instance?20:56
timelessbipolar: for a touchpad != touchscreen?20:58
Takon a touchscreen, you could, say, tap+hold...20:58
timelessas long as your system supports select != activate20:58
timelessbasically you get selection to the icon, and then tap the top right corner of the touchpad20:58
bipolartimeless: oh, I said touchpad... I meant touchscreen like the tablet20:58
kkitoi implemented right click on qt, using the tap-and-hold20:59
kkitoit is not hard20:59
timelessbut yes, for touchscreen, you use tap hold20:59
bipolarkkito: right, that required a patch for qt, rgiht?20:59
timelessbipolar: yeah, i figured you did, hence i tried to beat you over the head20:59
bipolartimeless: it's iron.. that won't work :P21:00
timelessbut your head just didn't get it :(21:00
kkitobipolar, well i hard hacked into the X11events processor21:00
bipolarkkito: i see21:00
bipolarkkito: what kind of work are you doing in regards to window management?21:01
kkitobipolar, nothing :P i want to integrate kde apps to the actual maemo desktop... i dont want to replace the window manager21:01
bipolarkkito: ahh... ok.21:02
bipolarkkito: I guess that would be the sane way to go, unless you wanted to abandon gtk altogether21:02
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unique311maemo mediastreamer tutorial21:18
Takthat would work better in google21:20
Olofdoes anyone know where i can find a libxau package?21:20
Olof(for N800)21:20
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Olofi think i found it21:22
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Olofare there any ogg player for the N800?21:44
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Tenkawacant figure this illegal instruction problem out22:30
Tenkawaits gotta be the cpu I'm using22:30
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dolfunthere are still too many variables involved and a lot of things i don't understand yet to get pixeldoubling working23:01
dolfunUQM is a good sight more convoluted in its SDL usage23:02
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dolfunyes i'm that far23:03
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dolfuncan you turn on pixel doubling in an external program, while the sdl program is running?23:04
Takall I'm doing with fceu is turning on the doubling before it initializes the video23:04
Takand turning it off at quit23:05
dolfunah one moment23:05
TakI would imagine that you can23:05
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dolfunyou do it right after if(SDL_InitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_VIDEO23:06
dolfunlooks like sdl is double-buffering?23:07
dolfunah and then sdl calls  GUI_SetVideo(_fullscreen, _xres, _yres);23:08
kkitodolfun, are you trying to do that on the 770 or on the n800?23:08
Takactually I commented out the doublebuf line23:08
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kkitoah ok, because on the n800 there arent such feautre23:10
Takkkito: supposed to be in the forever-upcoming new os2007 release23:10
kkitoTak, :D oh23:10
kkitothen i will release my cps2 emu :P23:11
dolfunTak when i run the game in non-fullscreen mode, i see doubling on all X things being drawn23:11
dolfunfor example in game, whatever is being drawn is doubled, but then goes back to single23:11
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Takeh, it's not meant to be run in windowed mode23:12
dolfunin maemo whatever is being drawn (like battery charger) is briefly doubled, but then goes back to single23:12
kkitodolfun, because you are doubling the video output of the 770 not only the window23:12
dolfundid you see this behavior when running fceu in non-full-screen mode?23:12
Takyes, it doubles everything23:12
dolfunin windowed mode?23:12
TakI *never* run it in windowed mode23:12
Takfor precisely that reason23:12
dolfunright, ok i wanted to be sure that behavior was normal23:13
Takit happens because the entire display is doubled23:13
dolfunwhy is doubling not persistent?23:13
Takpersistent across what?23:13
dolfunthe stuff drawn in the game window is briefly doubled, then all regions go back to 1x23:14
dolfunif in windowed mode23:14
dolfunis that normal also, or is this game doing something strange23:14
Takbecause the desktop loses its mind23:14
dolfunok so i think my only problem is related to fullscreen mode and total-BSODing23:15
Takit's crashing?23:15
dolfundepending on options i select for sdl and x11 includes and linking23:16
dolfunpthread, reentrant...23:16
sbaturziois there an i386 equivalent of MaemoPad+?23:17
Takcan't help you there - I use the options given in debian/rules23:17
dolfunwell very nice work with fceu23:19
Takactually my copy is even nicer23:19
TakI just haven't found time to clean it up and release23:19
dolfundid you take a look at hatari?23:19
Taknot yet23:20
dolfunok, i will try it with other sdl programs/demos then23:20
dolfunbtw when i dpkg-buildpackaged fceu it ran fine23:21
dolfunand i've got the .deb for uqm about 60% done23:21
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dolfunthe uqm-content is huge though, with good music hundreds of megs23:23
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dolfuni am wondering what to do about the uqm-content dependency23:25
dolfunit wants to install to /usr/share/games/uqm23:25
dolfunchange the target for uqm-content to /media/mmc1? and host modified uqm-content23:26
dolfunor make uqm core symlink /usr/share/games/uqm to /media/mmc123:26
TakI would change the dependency to a recommendation23:27
Takand then make it search several different paths, including /usr/share/games/uqm, /media/mmc1/uqm, /media/mmc2/uqm, ...23:27
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dolfungood idea23:28
TakI suppose, alternatively, uqm-content could ask the user where it should be installed, and symlink that location to /usr/share/games/uqm23:28
dolfunyeah many ways for people can use the shell23:29
dolfunbut i don't know what i will do for people who just want to use application installer23:29
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Takhmm - there's no way to pop up a gui dialog?23:29
Takdoesn't canola do something like that?23:29
dolfunthat would be a good option23:30
dolfunthanks i will look at canola23:30
Tak#1 would be my choice, since I'm more used to code hackery than deb hackery, but either way could work...23:30
dolfuncan you think of other SDL apps that use doubling?23:31
Taknot offhand - it tends to be pretty transparent23:32
TakI would guess that most of the sdl games written/ported for the 770 use doubling, but I could be mistaken23:32
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dolfunhave you tried enabling doubling in an external program (like the link you pasted) while your main sdl game is running fullscreen?  would that work for testing?23:32
TakI haven't tried23:33
dolfunok something i'll try23:33
dragornwould it even be an install-level op?  Why not just wrap the game engine loader so it has a file browser if you haven't set a data dir?23:33
dragorn(he says, not having looked at the uqm code in ages)23:33
TakI mainly used that code to reset the display after I broke it (while still getting the doubling right)23:33
dolfunyeah i have an undoubler app, but it won't fix a BSOD'd X23:34
dolfunthough BSOD is the wrong name, since i can still run processes23:34
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dolfundragorn, that's not a bad idea, the user could be prompted to download the uqm content via the .tgz packs instead of the content .deb23:34
dragornsomething I wish more apps did, like freeciv23:35
dragornlet you shift off the internal store more23:36
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Takdolfun: incidentally, you do have/know about xmaeme, right?23:37
dolfunhaven't looked at xmame yet.23:38
Takxmaeme = GUI launcher for fceu/xmame/vba/others eventually23:38
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Takxmame = mame emulator23:38
dolfunmini-sdl demos with broken doubling here
dolfunjust one .c program... so i'll focus on that right now23:39
dolfunbtw doubling doesn't seem to work with xephyr on pc23:40
Takdoesn't surprise me23:41
TakI gave up trying to do any useful debugging with xephyr23:41
timelesscan someone please talk to me about how fonts work in debian? :)23:43
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Takmore specific?23:47
timelessi'm looking at a debian package23:47
timelessgenerally package contents are 0660 or something like that23:47
timelessthe package i'm looking at is 060023:47
timelessthe program i'm using to look at the files isn't the owner23:48
timelessthat means that, um... it can't look at the font :(23:48
timelessso the questions are:23:48
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kkitotimeless, change the file attributes properties with chown23:48
timelesskkito: it comes from a .deb, afaiu23:48
timelesswhich means manually changing them is moderately pointless23:49
timelessthe question is really, how do fonts get installed23:49
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timelessand what perms are required23:49
timelessand is there any reason for a deb of fonts to be 060023:49
kkitoi dont understand :?23:50
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dolfunshould bt 644 i think23:55
dolfunkkito: permissions23:56
kkitoi dont understand what timeless is trying to do :?23:58
dolfunor maybe 0664 i dunno but not allowing non-root to read a font makes no sense to me either23:59
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