IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-03-17

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maddlerlinux4_: why shound it be a problem? (another device with faster CPU)00:23
maddlerI mean... there are laptops with more RAM than mine... as well as faster bikes than mine...00:23
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maddlerand yes... some bread and marmelade is better than some old mouldy bread...00:24
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linux4_O2 and blacBerry Tre is faster CPU 500Mhz00:25
linux4_and n800 is 300Mhz00:25
linux4_and i dont no if i can upgrade wireless chip00:26
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linux4_and add a cell outdoor00:26
dyncorpAnybody want to be added as developer to the uqm garage project, /msg me...  jku added, Tak?00:26
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linux4_me00:28
linux4_me/msg dyncorp yes i m ready00:29
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dg               sudo killall vtund00:31
dgoops00:31
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linux4_ur quam naster ? uqm ?00:34
linux4_master00:34
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linux4_dyncorp me tell me more00:38
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maddlerlinux4_: I still can't see what's the point...00:42
maddlerok... faster devices around... and so?00:42
linux4_best price00:42
maddlerblackbarry can't run kismet... as well as ssh server... and so on...00:42
linux4_399 USD00:43
maddleryou are talking about two completely different devices...00:43
linux4_yes and NSA backdoor00:43
maddlera smartphone and N80000:43
linux4_for the consumer middle class00:43
maddlerlinux4_: really... I can't follow you...00:43
maddlerI mean... I really can't understand your point...00:44
maddlerwhere that NSA backdoor is supposed to be?00:44
linux4_tablet pc O2 have good price and faster CPU Xscale and a keyboard only delet windows and install linux00:44
linux4_i dont no in the chip or software00:44
maddlerlinux4_: sorry again... hard for me to see what you are trying to say...00:45
maddlermy fault...00:45
maddleryou were talking about blackberry... then about tablet pc O2 (which I really don't have any idea of what it is)...00:46
maddlerthen NSA backdoors...00:46
dyncorpYHBT HAND00:46
linux4_i ask if maemo uprgade comin soon with faster CPU what is planned00:46
maddlerhow can an OS update change CPU clock?00:47
linux4_Linux windows00:47
maddler?!00:47
maddlerok... white flag...00:47
maddlerI can't really understand what you a are trying to say...00:47
maddlersorry... I surrender...00:48
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maddlernice... just installed Claws Mail...00:54
maddlerseems to work pretty well...00:54
linux4_mei think that n800 have a too slow cpu bettwen 02 Xda00:55
linux4_maemo can changeCPU clock ?00:55
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linux4_it s pretty simple for me maemo is too slow00:56
linux4_but i have no buy for moment00:56
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florianre00:58
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linux4_320,00 USD in ebay you have more less00:58
maddlerflorian: heya...00:59
linux4_70 EURO i buy this week and keyboard later00:59
linux4_yes 70EURO i buy maemo n80000:59
maddlerflorian: how's going?00:59
florianmaddler: apart from the fact that days are too short i'm pretty fine.01:01
florianand that gcc-cross-sdk seems to hate me01:02
florian... and my son who wants to play instead of sleeping01:03
maddlerhehehe... don't tell that to me!01:03
maddlerI'd need 240hrs long days...01:03
maddlerand that _could_ barely be enough for my basic tasks!01:03
linux4_a maemo apps list ?01:04
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florianand where is my spare harddisk?!01:05
linux4_googleearth ?01:05
linux4_in maemo01:05
kulvelinux4_: go googling01:05
linux4_how space disk ?01:05
Pzainquestion: i'm trying to create a psuedo 'kiosk mode' for my maemo app. I plan to code in python for now. I want to disable the home/back key etc in my app to lock it in full screen. Do you think if I poll for the home/back keys and override them to do nothing it will work?01:06
linux4_yes sure01:07
Pzainonce the app is started, i dont want users to have access to the web browser..application menu etc01:07
Pzainreally? i hope so. thanks.01:07
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kulvelinux4_: are you a bot?01:07
linux4_no01:08
linux4_why create a kiosk01:08
linux4_a cell wifi out is possible to maemo?01:09
Pzainfor commercial use...if i want use n800 at my business for my customers...but i don't want them to surf the web or access basic os features01:09
kulvePzain: I think the home key behaviour is implemented below gtk. So you migth have problems blocking it01:10
linux4_waht your compagny ?01:10
Pzaingaming company01:10
linux4_a java games ?01:10
Pzainkulve: that's what i suspected... :(01:10
Pzaini wish01:10
Pzainjava support is no good for maemo01:10
Pzainwill have to learn python or mono01:11
Pzaini can't code games in plain old C01:11
linux4_a maemo sdl games buycommercialaudiance01:11
Pzainhuh?01:11
linux4_ok01:11
kerwoodokay, so chapter 2 in the sad story of my N800 refusing to connect over BT through my Nextel iDEN cellphone:01:11
kerwoodI installed and started sysklogd, attempted my connection through the cell phone, then examined the logfile.01:11
kerwoodImagine my surprise to discover that the N800 was sending AT commands to my cellphone which weren't mentioned anywhere in the maemo documentation!01:11
kerwoodSo now I'm looking for suggestions on where to look for the mystery script which sends these unwanted and unnecessary AT commands -- any ideas, y'all?01:11
linux4_what the best coding game in n800 or in PC emulator maemo01:12
linux4_plateform01:13
linux4_hummsendAT via BT ?01:13
Pzainasking me? i dont fully understand your question, but based on my research python seems the best choice for game development on maemo01:13
linux4_i understand01:13
Pzainfor non-intensive games that is...not doom etc...more like card games01:14
dyncorpsomebody is doing wxpython01:14
Pzainyes..i saw that in the forums..it seems promising01:15
Pzaini make java phone games and flash/laszlo games now...i wish maemo had java support01:15
dyncorpi saw a java vm+01:18
linux4_IDEN is wireless network ?01:18
dyncorphave you tried flash games in opera?  i find them pretty slow01:19
Pzainflash games...not working very well..super slow01:20
Pzainon n80001:20
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dyncorpwell that makes sense, since high level apis and programming that ignores performance ~gets what it deserves~ imo01:20
kerwoodlinux4_: iDEN is a cellular network in the US (CDMA)01:21
linux4_Nextel developer KIT at 800USD01:21
kerwoodlinux4_: ???01:21
linux4_n800 dont have CDMA/IDEN, what smartphone handhelds choose ? buy two device01:22
kerwood*sigh*01:23
linux4_i have a SIP number01:23
dyncorpcan i change my mistral repos on the 770 to gregale and start updating packages?01:24
linux4_but how have a permantly wireless wire01:24
dyncorpmy scratchbox environment is gregale, and my 770 is mistral (latest OS2006 image)01:24
linux4_nextel store ?01:29
linux4_only motorola and blackberry no nokia no sagem samsung phone01:30
dyncorpif i want to compile something that people can use, i'd want to compile for OS2006, as released on most of the 770 tablets sold01:30
dyncorp./uqm-debug01:33
dyncorpsh: ./uqm-debug: Permission denied01:33
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dyncorp-rwxr-xr-x    1 user     root      3432274 Mar 16 09:07 uqm-debug01:33
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dyncorpah noexec in fstab01:36
dyncorp1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected01:38
florianwrong architecture binary01:39
dyncorpok, still learning the SDK_ARMEL stuff01:40
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kerwoodit would seem that /usr/bin/gwhwdetect  is emitting these rogue AT commands to my Nextel cellphone02:08
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dyncorpare you sure they're causing problems?02:09
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kerwooddyncorp: The phone is responding to one of them with "ERROR", making the connection fail. None of them are necessary, so they shouldn't be emitted in the first place.02:12
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dyncorpmaybe there's a way to set up a custom profile for it02:14
kerwoodall reasonable suggestions are welcome02:15
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dyncorpn800 has FM stereo?  http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/02/07/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-chips-revealed/02:37
Tenkawayep02:37
shackanyes02:37
Tenkawahorrible antenna though02:38
dyncorpbad FM reception is common for devices with computers (iriver, archos mp3/receivers included)02:38
Tenkawayeah02:39
dyncorpUQM needs libmikmod.  If/when i manage to build libmikmod, should i submit the .deb somewhere?02:41
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maddlerFM reception is good enough for me...02:48
unique311same02:49
unique311don't do radio so it doesn't matter in the long run02:49
unique311internet radio is far better....no commercials...02:49
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bipolarTenkawa: about the n800 antenna, you know that it doesn't have an internal one, right?03:11
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unique311http://corporatedrones.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/maemowizard-02c-03-pre-release/03:52
unique311is that trust worthy?03:52
unique311too good to be true...03:52
unique311and am i understanding it correctly...can i take any linux app and turn them into meamo apps?03:53
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dyncorpThis script takes a SDL application and makes it ready for debian packaging system, allowing fast ports and fast prototyping. The packages, indeed, are ready to run on the device.04:50
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dyncorpwhat's amazing is how easy maemo makes it to port apps to 770/80007:03
dyncorpand how few humans can do it07:03
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makuchakuAfternoon guys :)09:54
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AD-N770good morning10:29
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jpa-wc11:15
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sbaturzioAloha!11:53
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keesjHi koen|recife_12:38
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Superbiawho was it that was trying the debian armel build here more then me? :)13:27
disqme13:32
disqthough i'm not using it very much13:32
disqit's just there on the extra mmc13:32
Superbiaahh know if it's possible to boot it?13:33
SuperbiaI would like to try it atleast as main not having to chroot or vnc to it13:33
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disqhmm13:35
disqbut the point is to use it from vnc so that you can use the thumbkb13:35
Superbiaisn't it possible to get a linux onscreen keyboard working?13:40
Superbiaas there is many ppl running linux on fullsize tablet I don't see how this could be that much diffrent13:42
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kulveif you would be running debian armel stuff, maybe you could try the matchbox keyboard?13:59
keesjmatchbox keyboard?14:00
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kulvehttp://svn.o-hand.com/view/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-keyboard/14:07
kulveit's x keyboard, not gtk as the hildon keyboard is.14:07
Superbiaworth looking into14:10
kulveI think e.g. familiar has it.14:11
kulves,has,uses,14:11
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makuchakus-ndh-c: finally... check out http://www.makuchaku.info/blog/dual-booting-your-n800-a-few-tips & do leave your suggestions/comments if any :)15:16
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* kender is away: Busy16:01
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kulvekender: nice to know..16:06
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makuchakuone dumb question - how to exit mc (midnight commander) on N800 without killing it...16:14
dyncorp_not a dumb question, an app-specific question16:19
Superbiahmm seems like matchbox-keyboard is in the debian armel build so it is atleast easy to get... now just to figure out how to run a second x server and change display to it instead of standard16:20
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zuhSuperbia: You could just bind-mount /tmp to /<armel-root>/tmp and export DISPLAY=:016:24
zuhThat's how I ran gimp etc there. If the maemo-UI is in the way, you can always shut it down with the initscripts... ;)16:24
Superbiaohh intresting :)16:34
Superbiaguess google as a guide for dual x servers and such :)16:34
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gerrynjrkick ass work on the n800 and the distribution on it17:26
Superbiakick ass?17:29
gerrynjrok, superb17:31
SuperbiaI think I missed something :D17:31
gerrynjrThe distro is quite impressive for a handheld device17:32
gerrynjrI owned a zaurus sl-5500 prior to this, and the n800 is much better17:32
gerrynjrif only it had a thumb-board 8-)17:32
gerrynjrbut i can get by w/o one 8-)17:32
Superbiaahh okay then I'm with you... yes it's nice but I do miss a few things... :S17:32
SuperbiaI would love to have another window manager on it etc17:33
gerrynjrSuperbia: must be a language difference or something... "kick ass" here usually means "good work" "impressive" etc17:33
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unicehi all17:34
Superbiamight just be me thats a little wuusie too... I'm trying to get debian armel working so I can get another wm running17:34
SuperbiaHi17:34
gerrynjrI'm going to use mine as a telepresence device17:35
gerrynjrie.. I have a mobile robotic platform w/ a camera and an LCD17:35
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gerrynjrapp runs on the n800 w/ a viewport for the camera, and four buttons17:35
gerrynjrforward, backward, left, right17:35
gerrynjrand the camera from the n800 gets sent to the screen on the robot17:35
gerrynjrso people can see your face17:35
gerrynjrand the user can see what the robot sees17:36
Superbiaahh hehe sounds intresting17:36
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kkpaulhey guys18:11
glas55heys18:12
kkpaulI need to install the libSM.so.6 library. I tried (as root) apt-get install libsm6 but it refuses to install it18:12
kulveerror msg would be useful..18:13
kkpaulsorry. forgot about that. one moment18:13
kulveone my n800 it's already installed18:13
kkpaulnot on the 77018:13
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kkpaule: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpgk/lock - open18:14
kulveyou have application manager running at the same time?18:14
kkpaul(100 recources temporarily unavailable)18:14
kulvethat sounds odd18:14
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kkpaulyeah, I closed it now I got another error: couldn´t find libsm6 package18:15
kkpaulthe other error was due to the app manager still open18:15
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kkpaulthats why I try to get that library https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=891&forum_id=86118:17
kkpaulit works now. thanks anyway18:20
Superbiazuh; what x-server did you use to get it working?18:27
kkpaulosso x-term18:29
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kkpaulwith the becomeroot package because I´m a noob :)18:29
kkpaulthe programm doesn´t work anyway. I think there are other dependencies18:30
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zuhSuperbia: I had the maemo rootfs running and just shut down the /etc/init.d/af-base-apps + sapwood and matchbox, bind-mounted tmp to the armel rootfs, chrooted there and exported DISPLAY=:0 so I could use the Xomap that was already running18:33
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Superbiaahh okay... you didn't need any xauth or so... just export18:34
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Superbiamaybe should have a ? too ^^18:35
zuhIIRC not, but I'll try again...18:36
Superbiaokay... just checking becouse I can't seem to get xauth on the armel build and all guides google gave me used it :)18:37
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zuhI guess the maemo env already allows local connections or something... or keeps the auth info in tmp :)18:38
Superbiagreat :D18:40
Superbiazuh: think it would be possible to kill WM via ssh connection too and run a diffrent? enlightment seems to work nicely18:48
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Superbiahmm what I kill sapwood it reboots... that doesn't seem right18:50
Superbiamight I need to run in R&D mode or something?18:50
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zuhDon't kill them19:00
zuhThat will only make them mad19:00
zuh;)19:00
zuhuse "source /etc/osso-af-init/<prog>.sh stop"19:01
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zuhYou might need to source the approperiate .defs file too19:01
zuhBut not sure if it is always necessary...19:02
Superbiahehe okay19:06
srihowdy19:09
zuhNot the most flying app in the world, and I bet big images would be painful, but somehow this is just cool: http://iki.fi/zuh/gimp-on-n800.png19:11
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Superbiasweet :D gimp? :D19:17
zuhAnd it's surprisingly fast even! :)19:17
Superbiahehe :D19:17
dragornheh19:17
SuperbiaI wish I could get it to run enlightenment instead of what ever WM it uses now... think that would make things alot faster19:18
zuhI doubt it, matchbox is pretty lightweight19:18
Superbiabut I need to get it to boot armel build nativly and not chrooted and then install a working xserver19:18
Superbiawell Wmaker was alot faster then the standard when I tried that... was just missing a working onscreen keyboard... but matchbox-keyboard seems to fix that :D19:19
zuhI guess if you don't care for the osso-connectivity or multimedia or such, it will be quick like a fox.19:21
zuhNot sure how easy it is to set networking etc up without them though...19:21
dragorniwconfig and ifconfig still work, but you won't get (afaik) the network scanning19:22
dragornand you won't be able to set wpa config w/out knowing their ioctls since it doesn't use wpa_supplicant, the wpa assist is in the drivers19:22
Superbiathat are things that can be fixed... I mean armel build is just like debian... and I gotten most things I need working in debian... it seems like the pool got all I need :)19:24
SuperbiaI mostly want to to try and see if I can get it working now :D19:25
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zuhYou still need some of the binary stuff to get an operational device, but I guess it should be doable...19:33
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Superbiayeah... I guess so too... reason I want to get a armel debian running is that I have scripts etc I use with my laptop that would be nice to use with n800 now... but as obexftp etc isn'19:45
Superbiat availible atm it gets hard :P19:46
tigertwe built enlightenment dr17 on n800 :)19:48
tigertit was cute19:48
tigertdisabling shadows it wasnt even that slow19:48
tigertof course the ui doesnt make much sense on a handheld touchscreen device19:49
Superbiamy want :D19:49
tigertjust as much vanilla windows does on those umpc's19:49
Superbiahaha19:49
tigertja sit ku yhdistät jonkun kytkimen päälle ni sen numero tulee siihen listaansure it was pretty but everything was so tiny =)19:50
tigertwhoops. where did that come from?19:50
SuperbiaI really don't know what best os for a handheld would be... but I don't want hildon thats for sure :P19:50
tigertdisregard the finnish, wrote it on another channel but somehow it ended up here too in irssi19:50
Superbiahaha19:51
tigerti think hildon isnt too bad. it depends a lot on the apps19:51
tigertthe input methods are the most critical19:51
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tigertthey need to be powerful enough to make the device useful19:52
Superbiawell lets say it like this... it's in the way... an onscreen keyboard that I could call with hardware button and a normal desktop and I would be happy19:52
tigertthis serves my needs nicely - xterm + web + maemomapper and hackability since its linux. need to learn python i think.19:53
srihi tigert :)19:53
tigerti dont think movable windows make sense in a handheld for example19:53
tigerthi sri19:53
makuchakuHi, anyone tried installing new fonts on N800?19:54
tigertmaku, just dump them to /home/user/.fonts19:54
Superbiatigert; no, I agree movable windows is not really that needed... but for example halfscreen would be nice... 2 xterms etc...19:55
makuchakutigert: not /usr/share/fonts ?19:55
tigertshould work fine.19:55
Superbiabtw where I do get a working gps module for the n800? I can't find one anywere... :S19:55
tigertwell. there too if you want19:55
tigertsuperbia, you rather want a splitscreen term app then19:56
tigerta bluetooth gps should work. i have the nokia one, but any bt should work.19:56
makuchakutigert: does it requires a restart? I ran fc-cache after copying the new font to /usr/share/fonts but nothing changed...19:56
Superbiaohh okay, I'm trying to get the one they have on nokias page with 1gb sdcard and euro maps.. but it's impossible to get...19:57
makuchakutigert: let me try the .fonts dir.19:57
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tigertyou probably need to reboot20:01
tigertto see them20:01
tigertand if they have long names, Notes' toolbar icons will not fit anymore20:02
tigertbut it should work fine otherwise20:04
guerbyhmm, where is the battery level in /sys?20:06
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kerwoodWell, instead of whingeing about the N800/Nextel problem, I submitted a bug report.20:16
kerwoodI hope they appreciate syslog dumps. =:O20:16
tigertyes, they help20:19
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gerrynjrn800 works great with my ppc6700 using a vision connection20:29
gerrynjrsort of redundant, considering the 6700 runs windows mobile20:29
gerrynjrbut it works via bluetooth20:29
gerrynjris a reflash really needed to setup usb host mode?20:31
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dragornthere is no host mode on the n80020:33
gerrynjrseriously?20:33
dragornyup20:33
dragornlook at the roadmap/wishlist20:33
gerrynjrI wonder why they did that...20:33
dragornlots of things feel slightly rushed on the n80020:35
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tigertwas there host mode on 770?20:55
tigertbecause on flasher you can set some stuff20:55
tigert  --enable-usb-host-mode        Set the device into USB host mode20:55
tigert  --disable-usb-host-mode       Set the device into USB peripheral mode20:55
tigertits not just official user feature afaik20:55
tigertand you need to supply power via a powered hub20:56
kulve770 had the usb host mode, yes.20:56
Superbiaif you have maemo mapper you don't need to buy maps? or do you still need to buy maps to get accurate maps?20:58
nealgoogle maps are not vector maps20:59
nealso you cannot do route calculation20:59
Superbiaahh okay...20:59
Superbiaso I still need to get my maps from somewhere...21:00
sxpertyou can get free vector maps from openstreetmap. depending on the area you're in you may be in luck (or may have to start participating :D)21:01
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Superbiaahh hmm so maybe work getting a bluetooth gps and just download maps online instead of buying them from nokia :P21:03
Superbiaworth*21:03
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Kiki-n800Hello. please give me a recommendation for a linux distribution , that allows me an easy installation of the sdk.22:19
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kerwoodKiki-n800: I am not a developer (yet), and although I had little problem installing maemo 3.0 on my OpenSuSE 10.2 system, I got the impression that a Debian distro would be the best platform22:24
Kiki-n800thanks a lot. i ´ll try it.22:27
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maddlerKiki-n800: Debian Linux should be ok22:43
maddlerKiki-n800: if you are new to Linux you should also give a try to Ubuntu Linux22:43
maddlerKiki-n800: I hadn't any problem installing the sdk22:44
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kulveKiki-n800: there's (afaik) a vmware image with the sdk. You can run that on windows, if you like.22:47
Kiki-n800this would be perfect to have. i ´m trying to ffind it.22:52
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kulveKiki-n800: maybe this one: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/70223:14
kulveI haven't tried it, so I can't tell anything else about though..23:14
Kiki-n800thx again. i´m already loading it via bittorrent. you saved me a lot of hours :-)23:15
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Yamazaki-kunNice.. when did that come out?23:26
Yamazaki-kunhm.23:27
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Kiki-n81-20-2007 says the torrent link. loking at the not so small installation guide, i´m most happy that it is available.23:40
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