IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-03-15

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Tenkawaanyone paired their nokia unit with an apple wireless keyboard?01:49
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Tenkawait just keeps complaining when i pair it01:55
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svudamn, again endless reboots :////02:08
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Tenkawairc from my n800...scary02:16
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Tenkawaany  ideas?02:23
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acydlordis maemo updated for the stupid USA DST change?06:35
dragorni believe yes06:37
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eeejayDST is not stupid06:43
eeejayDST saves lives06:43
acydlordthey still dont have arizona in the time tables for the gui06:44
acydlordwhich is retarded since i cant just pick another city in my time zone06:44
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acydlordi need to go to radio shack and pick up some ir diodes to see if they will make the cam look less chitty in low light07:36
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xnixanyone around07:57
xnixIm trying to make a deb of a command line app in scratchbox and just getting this at the end07:58
xnix/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-as: unrecognized option `-Qy'07:58
xnixerror: command '/scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/bin/gcc' failed with exit status 107:58
xnixive done some googling but cant seem to find a solution, i think i can prob do without the -Qy option to the assembler, but I cant find where to get rid of it... Iguess this assembler doesnt support that option?07:58
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keesjxnix: are you inside scratchbox , did you run /scratchbox/login ?08:29
xnixi compile other things successfull08:30
xnixone-file things just using cc08:30
xnixwhen i try to make a bigger projects using debian tools i get the -Qy error08:30
keesjperhaps you are the first person ever to try to compile it for arm?08:31
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xnixkeesj: well there are older packages for it08:31
xnixthat the maintainer doesnt keep up and dont work anymore08:31
xnixis what im trying to do08:31
keesjthis one libgpsbt08:32
xnixthat guy has older packages that no longer install08:32
xnixits a gps daemon08:32
xnixthat will read data from a serial GPS device08:32
xnixand provide it to other apps08:33
xnixi have the gps plugged into my nokia fin, and I compiled some small serial term apps to test and make sure everything was working08:33
keesjIf you give me the source url I can give it a quick try08:33
xnixnokia seems to be reading gps data fine08:33
xnixkeesj: ok one sec08:33
keesjwhat nokia are you targeting?08:34
xnixthat is the exact source im working with08:34
xnixi dont have an 800, and prob wont get one08:34
xnixi like the cover on the 770 more anyway :D08:34
keesjxnix: I love it also , I run it2007-hackers on the 770 , and I just love it08:35
xnixyeah i saw that 2007 hack thing08:35
xnixbut im not too too interested08:35
xnixonce i get gpsd working on here, im gonna try and start writing a nice little ham radio app08:36
xnixfor APRS08:36
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keesjI am booth trying to build the .deb based gpsd and the url you sent me08:38
xnixyou mean the one from the guys site?08:39
xnixversus the clean source from the project08:39
xnixi actually got the source code from that guys site to compile just now08:39
xnixhad to change arm to armel08:39
xnixin control08:39
xnixand it seemed to work08:39
xnixstill cant get the projects clean source to compile... plus its a much newer version from the project site08:39
keesjno , it' looks like there is an existing debian archieve for gpsd .08:40
xnixthere is08:40
xnixit includes gpsd-clients08:40
xnixand stuff08:40
xnixi least the ubuntu one did08:40
xnixincluded a lot more than what i want at least08:41
xnixit seems to actually be working, the old source from that guys site08:44
keesjxnix: did you get the error right away? or did it first coompile?08:45
keesj(I am compiling on a 40 euro machine so it takes some time)08:45
xnixgot the error right away08:46
xnixim trying to connect to the gpsd server on my nokia from this machine08:46
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xnixand its just crashing08:47
xnixbut it is reading data from the gps08:47
xnixthen crashing08:47
xnixkeesj: if it works that would be sweet, let me know08:47
keesjI get it at the end :p08:47
keesj/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-strip: Unable to r08:48
keesjecognise the format of the input file `debian/gpsd/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packag08:48
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xnixfrom the stock debian one?08:48
xnixyeah i think i had that08:48
keesjno from the url you sent08:48
keesjI am using mud to build08:49
xnixah hmm08:49
xnixnot familiar with it08:49
keesjonly a few people are :p08:49
keesjI need to walk the dog and go to work.08:50
xnixahh looks pretty cool08:51
xnixalright, thanks for trying this for me anyway08:51
xnixi wish i could find out where i could just take those stupid arguments away from the assembler08:51
xnixthen i think it would work fine08:51
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xnixhmm apparently gpsd comes on the n80008:58
sxpertxnix, that should be a good thing no ?08:59
sxpertif they compiled it with the right option, it should use my dbus stuff, and broacast a message every second on the system bus09:00
xnixwell its a good thing if i had an 80009:02
xnixsxpert: you have any experience compiling apps for maemo/arm?09:02
sxpertnot really :D09:02
xnixheh ok09:02
xnixdo u have an 800?09:03
xnixsee if it has gpsd on it09:03
sxpertno, I only have a 77009:04
sxpertwith no gpsd on it09:04
sxpert(yet, I guess)09:05
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xnixlets see if i can grab their n800 package09:08
xnixand try to make it work09:08
xnixfor me09:08
sxperthave fun ;D09:10
xnixits compiling now09:10
* xnix crosses fingers09:10
xnixit does have dbus stuff compiled in hehe09:11
xnixlike u said09:11
xnixi may take it out though for now09:11
xnixit finished09:11
* xnix gets excited09:11
xnixinstalling on my nokia now09:13
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xnixalright im out09:24
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inzsxpert, doing anything every second sounds like a bad idea on a battery-operated system09:55
sxpertinz, well, when you use a gps it will speak to you every second.09:55
inzsxpert, ah, then I guess you simply lose ;)09:56
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sxpertyou can use a larger battery in a back pack and a car adapter :d09:57
superbiaHi, anyone looked at the armel debian distro growing? seems like it might work quite well with n800 :)09:58
sxpertinz, I use that when I go for mapping trips10:01
zuhsuperbia: I just downloaded it an thought I'd give it a go (now that I have a 4GB SDHC card there ;)10:03
Eloizuh: keep us informed ;)10:06
superbiazuh: hehe I got a 2gb so I was thinking about it too... I been using quite a few programs from it when maemo is lacking and they work... just onscreen keyboard I am wondering about before I reflash ^^10:07
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mk8Hi to all ....10:47
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superbiaanyone get a easy way to backup your current rootfs?10:55
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ptman_superbia: can't the flasher do it?10:56
kulveptman_: I think not10:57
X-Fade_Use dd or tar ;)10:57
superbiaptman_: hmm good question... didn't see anything from help10:57
kulveI think the easiest way is to use gnu(?) tar..10:58
ptman_ok, my bad10:58
ptman_you can always use dd10:58
ptman_man dd10:58
superbiaahh okay thanks10:58
ptman_but I don't know how to put back and image taken with dd10:59
superbiahaha okay... tar seems better then10:59
kulveyeah, I think tar would be better..10:59
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ptman_at best you can probably mount it on a desktop computer and take useful files from it10:59
kulvehmm. actually I was now thinking about copying to mmc..10:59
kulveso, nm10:59
superbiawell yeah... I want to backup root fs and copy backup to sd card and give debian armel a shoot11:00
kulveboot the debian armel from mmc11:01
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floriangood morning11:07
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JaffaMorning, all11:11
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AD-N770good morning11:16
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tigertheya mr. dent11:29
Guard][anmorning maemo11:30
Guard][anwow, size-requests and size-allocates are slow when you have tons of widgets11:30
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Tenkawamorning all11:47
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[mbm]hmm is there instructions for the maemo-mapper poi?11:54
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superbiaanyone got an alternative site for the ext2 kernel for n800? the one directed to from seems to be down12:13
[mbm]even the factory kernels come with ext2/ext3 modules12:14
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superbiaohh? hmm then something else is wrong12:15
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zuhthey are not loaded by default12:19
superbiait was a path error... resolved it12:19
* zuh already runs GIMP ;)12:19
superbiaGIMP on a tablet? :D12:20
zuhtoo bad that most the gnome stuff depends on control-center and it doesn't seem to be available atm12:22
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[mbm]I tried running gimp just by exporting the display from another machine .. worked but the way maemo matchbox renders all windows full screen makes it annoying to use12:27
zuhI use metacity :P12:27
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bedboiis there any howto about running maemo on PC with resolution different from 800x480?12:28
bedboii read something on karoliina's blog iirc12:28
bedboii'm interested in it as long as i have a tablet laptop (thinkpad x41)12:29
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superbiahow do I make a jffs2 if I got a tar.gz?12:33
superbiaI can make a jffs2 image of a tar gz with that? okay12:35
kulveyou may need to untar it. Dunno12:36
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superbiayeah... it reads from directory12:38
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__dan__Anyone know where x server log messages can be found on the n800? As in LogMessage calls from inside X.12:39
__dan__/var/log is pretty much empty12:39
superbiahmm "File size limit exceeded" doesn't sound good12:42
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Veggendan: If you install sysklogd package, you get more.12:44
Veggen(maybe you need to start it manually, too)12:44
__dan__Veggen: more? I  can't even find where they end up. What file are they sent to?12:45
__dan__Veggen: Ah, you mean more files are created...?12:45
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Veggensyslog doesn't run.12:46
Veggenbut, hmm. Doubt the X server uses it.12:46
VeggenMaybe logging is turned off, from X.12:46
VeggenHmm. /tmp/xserver.log ?12:48
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__dan__Veggen: doesn't look like it :(12:49
__dan__I'm already building my own xserver, so if I just knew how to "turn logging back on" (if that's really what's needed), fine.12:50
VeggenMm, guess you can dig out how to config Xomap.12:56
Veggenmeeting in 4 minutes, so I have no time to dig more now.12:56
__dan__Yea, I dug already :(12:56
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timelessis anyone here familiar w/ PAN?13:18
cosmo__well, i use it13:19
inzI tried to port it, but gave up13:19
timelessdoes it work w/ the 770 or n800?13:19
cosmo__not on maemo though13:19
cosmo__there doesn't seem to be package available at garage13:21
timelessok, how about a simpler question13:21
timelesswhat's the max number of characters in a bluetooth device name? :)13:22
suihkulokkimmm.. tla collision?13:23
suihkulokkipan = newsreader vs pan = bluetooth networking13:24
timelessi wrote PAN, not pan, right? :)13:25
ptman_that's exactly why I try to remember to refer to software like: pan(1) and to TLAs in upper-case: PAN13:25
cosmo__i'm talking about pimp ass newsreader, dunno about the other PAN13:26 and work quite nicely, thank you13:26
timelessthey aren't interesting :)13:26
VReHmm.. I think my n800 is frying memorycards. One mmc down and now sd has broken too13:27
ptman_timeless: those don't work offline...13:27
timelessoffline? never heard of it13:27
cosmo__timeless: those don't support all servers i want to read13:27
timelessis your cell phone broken? :)13:27
ptman_timeless: it costs, and is slower, as I don't have anything faster than GPRS right now13:28
timelessactually, i'm using wifi+vpn atm w/ my laptop and just want my device to use PAN to get the connection from my laptop13:28
ptman_that would rock, but I really doubt if PAN works on maemo13:28
timelessand yes, i know if i could get my device to download packages, i could make it waste cpu cycles and battery life doing its own vpn work13:29
timelessthat said, my device needs the network first :)13:29
ptman_try those for starters13:29
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ptmanyou're welcome13:31
timelesssince you seem to know something about bluetooth13:32
timelesshow about another question :)13:32
timelessone of the devices in my list is:13:32
ptmandon't ask to ask, just ask =)13:32
timeless"System error. Contact service."13:32
timelesswhat kind of device name is that?13:32
timelessit seems kinda long13:32
ptmanI think it's a name returned when the system doesn't work13:32
timelessthat'd be nice, if i could find any evidence that the system has such a string13:33
timelessso far, i've failed miserably in my search13:33
ptmanit might even be in the bt firmware for all I know13:33
timelesshrm, i should google :)13:33
ptmanor maybe on the remote device13:33
ptmando you see other devices?13:33
timelessthis seems to be a "phone"13:34
timelesswhereas there are a couple of laptops13:34
ptmanright, so you have no nice way of identifying which device returns such an odd name?13:34
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timelessand dozens of phones, and a hardware device, and a pda13:35
timelesswell, i've seeen /someone/ who knew how to manually enumerate bluetooth devices13:35
timelessi think it /might/ have been done w/ gnome-vfs ?13:35
timelessi have an x terminal13:35
timelessbut i don't speak gnome-vfs :(13:35
ptmanin the terminal13:35
ptmanor sdptool13:36
superbiahm can't get it too boot nativly from the debian armel rootfs... :S13:36
ptmancan't really remember the names13:36
ptmanI usually just dpkg -L bluez-utils13:36
ptmanand pick the tools from there13:36
timelessi have both of those13:37
ptmanplay around with them13:37
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timelesshcitool scan sounds promising13:37
timelessok, got it13:38
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timelessi have a bluetooth id13:38
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ptmantry using hcitool lq <btaddr>13:39
ptmanlq is link quality13:39
ptmanyou should be able to pinpoint the source13:39
timelesslq: Not connected. info: Can't create connection: Operation not permitted13:40
ptmanas you can see, my expertise ends here13:40
timeless(info is a different verb)13:40
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makuchakuAnyone able to get gcc running on N800?16:22
makuchakukulve: compiling on the device itself... in the time of crunch :)16:24
makuchakukulve: no very obvious use - as compared to the sbox, but can be handy at times...16:24
pyhimyskulve: imagine a beowulf-build-cluster made of N800s!!1 ... or maybe not16:24
pyhimysmakuchaku: you can't build on some other host?16:24
kulvewell, somebody put up an arm computer for compiling native16:25
pyhimysI used to have freebsd on a thinkpad 560x16:26
makuchakupyhimys: yes, you can... but a gcc for the device would be nice addition16:26
makuchakukulve: do you remember the url... or even parts of it so i can google :)16:26
pyhimysrunning 'make buildworld' took days16:26
kulvehmm. People are now testing debian armel port on n80016:26
kulvemaybe that could be used?16:27
kulvedunno if they already have gcc there though..16:27
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kulvemakuchaku: it was in the dev mailing list, but I can't find the thread now..16:30
makuchakukulve: searching that only :)16:30
keesjkulve there was a blog post of Jaffa about installing debian and using vnc to have keyboard  entry16:33
keesjI Have been trying to get oe up and running for the last few day , but people where not very helpfull :(16:37
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kenderhye keesj :D16:38
makuchakukulve, pyhimys check out
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keesjperhaps tiny c compiler will work?16:40
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xnixkeesj: i got the N800 version of gpsd compiled on my 77016:53
xnixworking fine16:53
ajturnernice xnix16:58
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keesjxnix: is that using the "new" location api?17:20
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xnixkeesj: im not even sure18:06
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xnixbut i installed libgpsmgr too for my 770 so that i can have the basic API18:06
xnixto turn gpsd on and off and query it from my app18:06
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bipolarIs there any way I can set up my n800 so that when I hook up the usb cable the pc sees the external sd card instead of the internal one?19:25
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chibiAcydit should see both19:28
bipolarchibiAcyd: hmm... at least on my Ubuntu box it only sees the main file system19:29
bipolarmaybe it acts diffrently on windows19:29
chibiAcydprobably, i've yet to load it up in linux19:30
bipolarI found the problem19:34
bipolarthe 2nd sd card was mismounted19:34
bipolarhmm... every time I plug in the usb cord, the 2nd card is inaccessable again.19:35
derfIs that the internal one?19:43
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bipolarderf: no, the external one. I moved root to the internal one.19:52
bipolarI think thats why the n800 is so confused19:53
derfMan, you're brave. I couldn't even get it to stop continually giving me I/O errors on the internal one.19:53
bipolarderf: you need to have the proper setup. formatted as ext2, and partitioned19:53
bipolarderf: the HDSD patched kernel helps too19:54
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bipolarman... this thing is being a pain19:58
jameyis there a version of glade that works with Hildon?20:00
jameyhi bipolar20:01
bipolarjamey: hi20:01
derfUh, isn't there one installed by default?20:01
bipolarjamey: ahh.. it's you :) been a while20:01
bipolarjamey: how's everything?20:02
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bipolarwell, gnucash seems to be quite useable on the n800's screen size20:03
bipolarI ran it over X forwarding and it's works good20:03
bipolarnow we just need a maemo'ized port :)20:03
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bipolaractualy, it probbly just needs the input integrated20:05
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* bipolar adds it to his todo20:08
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shackandhcp connections don't change the dns servers accordingly anymore (manually changing /etc/resolv.conf works, tough) since I haven't found anything in the archives, where should I look at? (ie: what program is supposed to set the new nameservers and in what files is this parameter stored?)20:53
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sp3000shackan: dnsmasq21:15
thoughtfixGood afternoon.21:15
sp3000i see your afternoon and raise you an evening21:15
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thoughtfixI'm ready for evening21:17
thoughtfixthen I'm out of work :)21:17
shackansp3000, what if it won't work?21:18
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sp3000don't know an especially likely reason why it wouldn't21:19
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thoughtfixI miss my tablets :(21:30
dyncorpYay, jussik sent me his Ur-Quan Masters diff for the 77021:32
thoughtfixHow's the playability?21:32
dyncorphaven't gotten it running yet.  i did hack UQM to make melee speed slower, so when i get it working, i'll be able to put in a command line for difficulty21:33
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dyncorpit will also probably need fceu-style onscreen buttons on the right,21:33
dyncorpheh, May the Ultron be with you...21:33
thoughtfixI played Star Control for hours on my 286/1221:34
dyncorpi just discovered it 2004 and it's one of the most playable/enjoyable games of the 90s.21:35
thoughtfixI think one of my favorite low-cpu-power games that'd be great on the tablets:21:35
thoughtfixScorched Earth or Worms21:35
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zuhHmm, I think there was some scorched earth -type game for 770...21:36
thoughtfixWasn't xscorch ported? I don't recall21:37
thoughtfixAnd ... don't forget to nominate your favorite apps for the Neato awards :D21:38
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tzzDune ][ would be awesome on Maemo, it's all point and click anyhow.  Good luck licensing it though :(21:42
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tzzWarlords would be nice.21:43
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dyncorpheh, stick to open source games :P21:44
tzzgenerally the 770/N800 are terrible for action games, they are better for strategy.  Things like Panzer Command, Civilization, etc. that don't require quick key presses.21:44
dyncorpright.  there's an online RPG called daemonin.  It needs 800x600, but i did a UI mockup for 800x480
thoughtfixRight - turn-based games21:45
tzzI wish the N800 had a tilt sensor so a game like flOw (which I love on the PS3) was possible.  Maybe a bluetooth device that sends arrow keypresses for tilt action exists?21:46
thoughtfixHeh... you could pair it with a wiimote ;)21:46
tzzI don't know much about the wiimote, is it a special profile?21:47
dyncorpopen source worms clone:
tzzif it could work, that would be nice.  Just attach it to the bottom of the N800 somehow.21:47
tzzI remember something on the mailing list about this actually.21:47
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thoughtfixShh that's him21:49
derfHaha, someone ported Descent 2?21:50
maddlerevening all...21:51
thoughtfixEvening? It's only 1 PM ;)21:51
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thoughtfixAnyone else remember SimulEyes VR? I had a pair of them long ago when playing Descent21:52
maddlerhehehe... not my fault if you are somewhere else on the planet! :D21:53
tzzok, this is a bizarre little game but I was obsessed with it, let's see if anyone remembers it.  It was by a French game company, and the goal was to manipulate a dreaming brain into "happiness" fighting the bad dreams.   It was late 80s/early 90s but I don't remember anything else about it, just the hours I spent rewiring the dreaming brain.21:53
konfoosimuleyes.. jesus21:53
tzzthe game was for the PC btw21:54
thoughtfixYep. My Descent arsenal was a Flightstick Pro, pedals, and Simuleyes. I was unstoppable.21:54
thoughtfixBy unstoppable, I meant I only died half as much as I do in current FPS games... which means I lasted about 10 seconds per respawn ;)21:54
dyncorptzz that's pretty obscure :)21:58
tzzdyncorp: yes, I'm googling it right now21:58
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tzznah, I can't find it.  oh well.  It was entirely point-and-click interface, and I'm sure it would work well on Maemo.  It's definitely abandonware at this point, the company has been gone for at least 10 years.22:01
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melmothmay be its listed there ?22:07
dyncorpjussik's UQM compiling howtos are here:
derfDoes it compile for the N800?22:09
dyncorpno, current state is os2005 only22:10
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derfWell, that's not useful (to me).22:10
thoughtfixDOH! My friend with my N800 now has a reboot loop. Never happened to me. Wonder what he did to it.22:11
dyncorpAsk not what UQM can do for you.  Ask what you can do for UQM. :P22:11
derfWhat I can do is nothing. I go out of town for two weeks tomorrow.22:12
ptmanthoughtfix: for me taking the battery out for a minute helped22:13
X-Fade_Hmm swdec is rapidly becoming an alternative to the closed blob on our devices :)22:13
X-Fade_Swfdec even..22:14
thoughtfixptman: I'll tell him22:14
konfooanyone working on mono apps for the n800?22:17
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derfthoughtfix: If that doesn't do it, putting it in development mode and disabling the watchdogs also helps.22:18
thoughtfixif he can't get it to work on his own, I'll just re-flash it22:19
thoughtfixI have no idea what kind of "breaking" he did22:19
ptmandoes he like it?22:20
thoughtfixHe was loving it up til this. I'll have his guest review up in another week or so22:21
dyncorpany news on n770 / n800 sales figures?22:23
thoughtfixI keep looking for that. Nokia never really announced them.22:24
thoughtfixThey only said the 770 did "about as well as they expected"22:24
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derfWell, considering it's plastered on the front page of their store, hopefully "as well as they expected" is pretty good.22:25
dragornI saw a tv commercial featuring the n800 today22:26
derfWas it free after rebate?22:27
derfThat's the only time I buy anything from
dyncorpwell i've told everybody i know about the 770, and take it with me and i get a lot of questions about it22:31
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jku_dyncorp, FYI: I'm / jussik at ITT forums. Just in case you have uqm related questions...22:39
dyncorpyeah he's the one who sent me his diffs.  i'm compiling in scratchbox now22:39
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thoughtfixSometimes I wish I knew how to code22:46
derfSo learn.22:46
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thoughtfixWho has time?22:47
thoughtfixI'm content with letting others code/port. My strengths are hacking, tinkering, testing, and writing.22:48
thoughtfixHmm ... I think I'll hack a Zip drive on my N800. Think of it: 100 megs of storage in the size of a floppy!22:50
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bilboedas opposed to ... 8gb in the size of a stamp ?22:53
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derfProgrammers spend a lot more time hacking, tinkering, and testing than they do writing code.23:03
derfNot so much on the writing, though.23:03
dyncorp"rks for OS2005 using the tremor ogg library23:05
zyxulnag1derf: thats true23:05
dyncorp"For long hath teh Joe Average hacker awaited for this, a device that even the hacker whose laziness overcomes his hacker spirit can hack on." - maemo-hackers.org23:06
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thoughtfixWell - no word back from Nokia on that resume/application I sent in for the "Maemo documentation/evangelist" position23:10
SulisI see doom on the maemo site and there's an install for it, but the repo doesn't actually have anything...23:11
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|mk8|Hi to all ....23:24
Sulishey |mk8|23:25
* thoughtfix waves hello23:25
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* thoughtfix passes out cookies.23:30
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Sulisdoes anyone have a .deb for doom?23:37
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Sulisdyncorp: will that work on n800?23:40
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dyncorpSulis: i don't think so23:45
Sulisdidn't think so :(23:45
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