IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-03-06

maddlerdum deee daaaa...00:00
maddlerb0unc3: just noticed the "background" for icons on Idea...00:00
maddlerb0unc3: btw... yes... you need to reduce applet size... :)00:00
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b0unc3maddler: the applet size or the icon size ?01:01
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sbaturziolet me there a way to sync google-calendar with my N800 gpe-calendar? I mean, from N800 to Gcalendar?01:14
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sbaturzioneal: really? google import ics only "by hand" o by opensync*?01:17
nealI don't understand.01:18
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nealopensync-plugin-google-calendar, on debian01:19
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sbaturzioAFAIR google calendar import *.ics files only from its import page. If opensync use that page for uploading calendar, why I can't do it with a script from my N800?01:20
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nealsbaturzio : That's wrong.01:30
nealsbaturzio : That have an API.01:30
sbaturzioneal: so there's no something like "upload mu ics file and see google-calendar update automagically"01:31
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nealI don't know01:33
nealI don't use it.01:33
sbaturziommm....wait...maybe there is a workaround01:33
disqhey neal01:33
disqhow's the music player project going01:34
nealI've been busy.01:34
nealIt basically does what I want it to do.01:34
sbaturziogcalendar can look for other *.ical files on other if I upload my ical file on a website, google could look at it...must investigate01:34
nealthere are a couple of bugs I've found01:34
nealbut all I wanted was a sane, free software music player01:34
disqas submissions didn't work last time i checked. you probably have to use libid3 to read the album name off the file01:35
nealso, you might say, I've approached mission accomplished01:35
disqand track duration too01:35
nealdisq: That's a bug with maemo's gstreamer01:35
disqit won't tell you the duration?01:35
nealdisq: On my desktop computer, this works fine.01:35
nealthe stream tags are correctly reported01:35
nealand so is the duration01:36
disqso many music player projects it would be good if we unified them a little01:36
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nealwell, there is canola01:36
nealdamn, fucking usability nightmare01:37
disqcanola is not good because the development is too slow01:37
nealand so complicated01:37
nealand not free softwre01:37
nealrhythmbox has insane dependencies01:37
disqthere's kilikali, there's starling, a couple more, and i might start a seperate project myself someday01:37
nealI have not heard of kilikali01:37
disqa new project on the garage01:37
disqthe latest svn head didn't work well though01:38
nealwell, if you are complaining about unification, why are you starting your own?01:38
disqnot sure if i want to01:38
nealwell, what do you mean?01:38
neali.e., what do you want?01:39
disqbut i might have to, given the current status of the music player software we have around01:39
disqi might just end up writing a dummy interface and publishing it though, gstreamer programming and its bugs are a whole different subject01:40
nealI think we are trying to have a discussion01:41
nealbut I have no idea what you want01:41
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disqi want a road-tastic interface, also with keyboard shortcuts, dbus integration (global dbus events whenever a song starts playing, etc)01:42
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nealI don't know what road-tastic is01:42
disqso the support would be in a home applet that listens for dbus events, caches the track history in sqlite, and submits them whenever it's ready. also would provide a nice now playing interface01:43
nealkeyboard short cuts are easy to add to free software01:43
nealas for dbus support, I don't see the motivation01:43
disqroad tastic is something that is easy to use with one hand/standing up/on the road (ped)01:43
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nealwell, if you want tohack on starling, you are more than welcome01:44
nealbut I'll be happy to review whatever you come up with01:44
disqalso not to mention possible hacks like keeping the screen turned off (not sure how to do that without locking keys) but keep the keys alive, key combinations to lock/unlock the keys, etc01:44
disqcould you refine the dependencies a bit, is the gpe libs (not to mention gnutls13) required?01:45
disqalso, there should be a way to overcome gstreamer's bugs. osso-mediaplayer works ok, so maybe using the osso-mediaserver could provide better results01:47
nealthe dependencies are due to libsoup01:47
nealall the dev packages are available01:47
nealso you don't need to compile them yourself01:47
disqah, silly libsoup. it's only used for, right? how about libcurl01:48
nealwrite a patch01:49
nealpreferably make it selectable at configure time01:49
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disqwhat's the url to get the latest starling? the /temp/starling gave me 40401:50
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disqi tried mpd btw. doesn't work with gstreamer :)01:52
disqa wrapper layer on top of osso-mediaserver should be good01:53
disqsince we can't directly patch it, how about unifying the basecode01:53
nealI'm off, later01:55
disqok ttyl01:55
disqwill try the latest starling01:55
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[mbm]hmm .. I should have the suspend script keep track of how long it's suspended02:03
[mbm]useless stat that would only add one more line to the script02:04
disqhave it report it to a server :p02:09
maddlerdamn... no more beer!02:09
[mbm]disq: cool, then we could have a downtime pissing contest :P02:10
disqi need input on the mediaserver wrapper ideas, i'll go to sleep and ask tomorrow02:11
[mbm]must have missed the discussion on why it needs a wrapper02:13
disqinstead of people trying to directly use gstreamer, we could get a nice api for all the music player authors out there02:14
disqalso all the wrapper-using players would have the things i want like a dbus events system :p02:14
[mbm]btw the backlight is rather easily controlled via shell or dbus02:14
disqanyway, night02:15
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Unique311running out of things to do on this gadget...disection time....02:42
Unique311wheres the hardware hacks?02:43
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[mbm]Unique311: I'd love to see usb host mode working on an n800 ;)02:45
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Unique311i'd love it too..more storage correct..02:46
chibiAcydUnique311, my 770 has an external antenna hack02:47
[mbm]actuall I'm not really concerned about storage; I want usb perhiperals02:47 a tutorial?02:48
chibiAcydsure don't, just solder a pigtail to the antenna connectors and dremmel a hole in the case for the  n plug, and viola02:49
* [mbm] has yet to see anyone paint a complete picture of usb host mode for the n800 .. there's a half written otg in the usb driver which makes reference to automatic switch, and there's a flasher flag for usb-host mode (presumably from the 770)02:50
[mbm]chibiAcyd: you disconnected the internal antenna?02:50
chibiAcydnomis, just branched it02:51
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chibiAcydBah coma for autocomplete is a pain02:52
[mbm]hmm doesn't sound right02:52
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Unique3113600 dollars03:13
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Unique311metasploit does the same thing03:13
Unique311and is free03:13
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[mbm]Unique311: and nothing is more fun than a bunch of wannabie hackers running canned metasploits03:16
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Unique311hacking looks it?03:18
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[mbm]Unique311: it's all pimped macs running 3d user interfaces with animated sequences for the garbage file, oh and Angelina Jolie ..03:27
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Unique311sounds good, i want to be down...03:31
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Unique311having issues removing zsh05:00
Unique311error status 12705:01
Unique311/var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postrm: /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.postrm: 10: remove-shell: not found05:01
Unique311the first error on an apt install05:02
Unique3113 more follows05:02
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Tofihi, i just have a quick question. has anybody used injection successfully on the n800 with the cx3110x patch?05:58
[mbm]didn't know there was an injection patch05:59
Tofiyou can get it here
TofiI've already compiled it and installed the module but i can't get it to work with aireplay06:01
Tofianyone knows why it isn't working??06:04
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ts0_god, battery life is horrible06:12
ts0_is kismet fixed yet?06:12
* [mbm] working on some battery life issues06:13
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[mbm]hmm dspctl needs some documentation06:25
* [mbm] goes looking around google06:25
[mbm]cool, found em06:29
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ts0_good deal06:31
ts0_its way worse than 770, and the case is so tight that its hard to replace the battery06:31
[mbm]just put a piece of tape on the battery so you can get it out later06:31
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[mbm]hmm why is dsme running dsp_dld with --disable-restart07:19
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disqTofi: did you run wlan-cal (via chroot /mnt/initfs, details in maemo-developers list) to calibrate it? did you replace the dummy umac.ko with the real one from the device?07:29
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disqTofi: i posted the relevant urls to c3110x project forums, please read them07:36
disqmorning tigert07:36
[mbm]hmm can't get the dsp to suspend properly07:36
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Tofidisq, i did run wlan-cal and the driver works. it's the injecion that doesn't...what do i have to do with the umac?07:39
Tofiok i'll read them07:40
disqah, if it works then nevermind. the umac that's included with the .tar.gz is a dummy one, but if the driver is working you probably already replaced it with the real one07:40
[mbm]anyone ever messed with dsp_dld or dspctl?07:41
disqdsp is evil07:41
[mbm]yes, yes it is07:41
[mbm]found the docs and it's still evil07:41
disqjust get a beeper and connect it to the serial port :p07:41
disqbtw do you have any touchscreen sensitivity loss on the right side?07:42
disqi think mine got worse07:42
dragornTofi: I'm working on building the drivers as well so i can add support to lorcon07:43
[mbm]haven't noticed it with mine but I saw complaints on the lists07:43
Tofithe only think i did was compiling the driver, then i copied it to the n800 rmmod, insmod, and chroot. should i do something with the umsc?07:43
dragornTofi: assuming inj actually works07:43
dragornTofi: the binary-blob drivers would return enotsupp and blow up tragically, so thats a good place to start looking if these don't do rawtx already07:44
disqTofi: it's in the thread somewhere. i'm just a bystander reading the lists, no involvement with the wlan driver :)07:44
dragorndisq: Got a link to the thread?  I came in late.07:44
disqjust posted it to the cx3110x garage project forums :)07:44
Tofidisq, ok thanks.07:45
disqso many people asking to compile the driver and they just don't check the maemo-developers list, had to do something :)07:45
[mbm]ui goes pretty unresponsive when you nuke the dsp :/07:48
disqsomebody loves blocking calls to access dsp? :)07:48
Tofihas somebody  used injection with the n80007:49
* [mbm] wonders if tofi is a closet script kiddie trying to pwn his neighbour's ap07:49
* disq wonders if mbm can be sneaky enough to put a hidden always-allow rule for nokia mac's in openwrt07:51
Tofihaha, I just think it's a great tool to have. You'd be able to have internet access just abut everywhere07:51
disqi'm off to watch prison break. (couch potatoes unite)07:52
[mbm]I keep forgetting that firewalls and passwords are only to keep non elite people out07:53
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disqmmm.. (jpevelek says wontfix)07:54
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dragornTofi_: rawinject isn't going to get you internet access anywhere.  You'd have better luck porting iodine.07:54
[mbm]dragorn: ah, but you forget that if tofi can't have internet access he doesn't want anyone else to either, hence the rawtx continuous transmit07:56
Tofi_Well, here in Mexico most people have the same ap that the isp gaves with the default settings 64 wep, so...07:56
[mbm]yeah we have them here; they're called 2wire07:57
dragornyeah you have fun trying to do even 64bit wep on your handheld.07:57
Tofi_dragorn: you think It won't work?07:58
dragornI think it will be slow, and it's a silly use of your time07:58
[mbm]don't they have evdo in mexico?07:59
dragornvery, very slow.07:59
Tofi_'cause of the cpu?07:59
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mikemorrisonare there any open source programs for the n800 that implement a folder tree like the one in the file manager?08:07
disqif you're looking for an example to load tree sub-items on access, there should be one in the gtk manual/demos somewhere08:17
mikemorrisonno. i'm looking for an example on how to get the bloody icons08:22
disqmaemopad+ uses some maemo icons, check the code in svn. src/interface.c08:23
mikemorrisonlooks like it just uses hard-coded names.. i wish there was a better api for this08:28
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disqthe files are pngs in /usr/share/somewhere/icons/hicolor/26x26/08:31
mikemorrisonyes i realize that. i was hoping to include a header, and then reference the define as is done in gtk08:31
mikemorrisoni would also like to be able to call a function on a uri and have it tell me the icon name i should display for that uri08:32
disqyeah i know it's ugly :)08:36
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pwilleD'oh, the build in email client is really bad :( It does not notice changes (read/unread) on messages it has already downloaded. (imap)09:15
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JaffaMorning, all10:37
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|mk8|Hi to all ...10:47
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kkitohello :)11:30
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AD-N770good morning11:44
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kkitoi cannot understand why vbk must to be developed on top of gtk...12:29
kkitoi must to really bad hack X11 apps that doesnt depend on gtk....12:30
UebliHello, i am using ubuntu 6.06 LTS after a new installation of my host and after installation an starting the maemo environment i get the error msg.....[sbox-i386: ~] > maemo-launcher: error kernel w/o support for user processes rising the oom value12:31
Ueblimaemo-launcher: error kernel w/o support for user processes rising the oom value... the view of the environment in xephyr is not clear. The upper right icons are not there. I get a white background. This is the first time that i see this. Any idea how can i fix that12:31
Ueblisorry correction i mean the upper left icons (the internet globe)12:32
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k-waykkito: I think that the current input method really is a combo of kernel , x-server and such12:35
k-waykkito: there are some wiki pages describing the x protocol that the components use12:36
kkitok-way, you need a gdk window to get the events12:36
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s-ndh-cwhen will modest be released?12:37
kkitoit is hardcoded in gtk12:37
s-ndh-canyone knows?12:37
keesjthere are also many posts on this subject , I think emaces has been ported12:37
kkitoa good implementation will be a Xserver input driver that get events from dbus or similar12:38
kkitoand then replicate on the Xserver side12:38
kkitoit is simple, and all apps can use it12:38
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kkitokeesj, i know about that :) thx12:40
keesjkkito: I also wonder how that would work when the keyboard is changed or attached ,12:40
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kkitokeesj, xorg can handle more than one keyboard inpput driver12:45
kkitono problem12:45
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keesjkkito: but how is the "x-org" keyboard supposed to know you clicked on a input widget and need an onscreeen keyboard.13:10
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kkitokeesj, we can make a keyboard daemon, that get dbus events, for show or unshow the osd keyboard, then patching the gtk, qt, etc.. is simple13:12
kkitoand for not patched toolkits or similar, we can bind a button to the device to show the keyboard13:13
keesjkkito: and that would "just" send x keyboard events?13:14
kkitothe virtual keyboard can send dbus events to a dbus kbd xorg input driver, then it generate the apropiate events13:14
kkitoX events....13:14
keesjI guess that it would be a good aproach . I would love to see it work for sdl13:15
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kkitoand i think that there are good news related to the powervr support :D13:15
keesjof course the thumb keyboard that I use a lot workds differently since is sends whole strings at once13:16
keesjkkito: really?13:16
lardmankkito: What's the good news? :)13:16
kkitolook at the bug
kkitoit is reported to disqspam@oynasana.com13:17
kkitoand if you take a look at the webpage...13:17
disqso.. :)13:17
disqi added myself as cc13:17
kkitoah ok xD13:18
kkitosorry ;P the page it isnt in english and i cannot understand13:18
lardmanlooks like a game site? Not a dev site13:18
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kkitoyes my fault13:18
kkitothen no good news xD13:19
keesjdisq: yes , very nice for spam. I really love that bugzilla13:19
kkitodisq, are you from turkey?13:23
kkitoi visited turkey the last summer :)13:25
kkitonice place :P13:25
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kkitowell i visited Istambul13:28
kkitoi am from spain there are more people here from spain?13:28
disqi'll catch a quick nap, ttyl :)13:28
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biwhi, I'm trying to upgrade a 770 with newer packages etc13:51
biwbut when I try things I keep getting: 307 Please authenticate yourself here [IP: 80]13:51
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mgedminbiw: looks like the wireless net you're using wants you to use a web browser to log in14:07
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biwI have logged in14:13
biwthe connection is open now14:13
biwok, I had and it must have timed out14:13
biwI'd left in the background to try and keep it open14:14
biwyea that's working now I've logged in again14:15
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biwhi, how do I get the keyboard input to popup?14:42
biwI've got rdesktop up and running, but can't find hwo to type anything in14:42
neostriderbiw , scratchbox or device?14:42
mgedminthere's no way, afaik14:43
biwahh right ok14:43
mgedminrdesktop hasn't been hildonized enough yet14:43
biwso I need to find something on the machine I'm rdesktoped into14:43
neostriderbiw , "center key"?14:43
neostriderhey folks...any debian packaging guru here?14:43
mgedminI think someone was working on it...14:43
neostrideri have some serious issues with mine .desktop file14:44
mgedminI don't think .desktop files are debian-packaging specific14:44
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dyncorphildonized sounds like a mathematical transformation14:45
neostriderwell. so any .desktop file guru? hehehehe14:45
neostriderdyncorp , I must agree with you. hildonized sounds math and maemized sounds like chemistry14:46
dyncorpi don't know what the .desktop file is sorry14:47
neostriderit is the "shortcut" for your application in the device menu14:49
neostriderjust like a "shortcut" on a Gnome desktop14:49
mgedmincanned answer #6: check for trailing whitespace in your .desktop file; maemo doesn't like it14:51
neostriderhey mgedmin, any canned answer to "SDL app doesnt show up in the 'task bar' " issue?14:56
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mgedminthere was a wiki page about SDL apps14:56
neostridergood...but I guess it was not enough14:56
neostriderindeed , im gathering information , to create something more informative14:57
mgedminit suggests setting SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS before you initialize SDL14:57
neostriderwell this wiki page shows something Im going to try14:57
neostriderexactly this14:58
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neostridermgedmin, thanks! issue solved!15:08
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maddlerhey all...15:16
neostriderhey maddler!15:16
maddlerhi, neostrider15:16
neostriderwhats news!?15:16
florianhi maddler15:19
maddlernothing special... working as always...15:20
maddlerheya florian! :)15:20
neostriderany cool maemo game coming out ,guys?15:22
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neostriderhey folks15:59
neostriderquick question15:59
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neostriderwhat key is home in the PC keyboard ?16:00
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neostrideranybody home?16:00
neostridersomething is wrong16:01
neostriderF5 is the key16:01
neostriderbut doesnt work16:01
inzI think it's handeld by mce, which you don't have in your sb-env16:02
neostriderhow do I set it?16:05
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Unique311back like crack16:26
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sampesonrelated to testability of Maemo (and 770/880) is there any plans of creating firmwares so that all SW is build with debug symbols?16:44
sampesonrelated to this also:
sampesonI can easily produce core dumps so it would be useful to get the real fault place also to be able to produce better bug reports16:46
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inzsampeson, there are -dbg packages for many components in the repository16:47
sampesonin which repository?16:47
sampesoncan I get e.g. browser with debug flags ,-P16:47
inzThat you cannot.. =(16:48
inzBut glib, gtk16:48
inzBut it seems they're there only for bora =(16:48
sampesonok, I have only 770 in my hand16:50
sampesonbut is there some reason why that kind of firmwares cannot be created?16:50
sampesondoes it make possible to reverse engineer the drivers and closed source stuff or why there isn't?16:51
inzMost likely because they would be HUGE16:51
sampesonaah, yes, that explains16:51
sampesonI have 66 core dumps from my 770 that are pointing to some program16:52
dragorngenerally speaking you keep a symbol file for the binaries on your host system and put the stripped binary on the embedded device16:52
sampesonneed to make statistics16:52
dragornand then coalesce the symbols during debugging, it's pretty trivial to load the core w/ the fully symboled file16:52
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dragorni can see why they wouldn't provide symboled versions of the closed-source stuff however16:53
dragornwouldn't do you any good if they did, you can't fix it16:53
sampesonyes, but can provide core dumps that would help to fix the problem16:54
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dragornright - which you can do w/out the symbols16:56
sampesonso I can e.g. add all my 10 core dumbs to bug report against browser and it would be useful?16:57
inzit's possible =)16:58
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sampesonok, need to prepare bug report then...17:01
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s-ndh-cis there any PIM thing that can be synced with exchange/outlook?17:05
s-ndh-cor atleast with evolution on my desktop17:05
cosmo_gpe pim17:17
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cosmo_can be synced to evolution using opensync17:18
Veggencosmo: last I looked, it was quite a manual job to set it up.17:18
cosmo_yep, i've never done it.. lots of manual hacking17:18
Veggen(I should test it soon myself. I'd also like to sync with my cell phone)17:18
cosmo_i'm using gpe to read my webcal, but it is read only, not sync17:19
JaffaGPE PIM can be downloaded from Outlook via SyncML (via ScheduleWorld in my case)17:19
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sampesondoh, I have 20 pcs of core dumps for browser17:41
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sampesonhere are the statistics17:52
sampesonCrashed programAmountPercentage17:52
sampeson/usr/bin/ossofilemanager 23,0317:52
sampesondsme -d -l syslog -v 4 -p /usr/lib/dsme/libstartup.so11,5217:52
sampeson/usr/bin/dbus-daemon –session11,5217:53
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sampeson/usr/bin/maemoblocks /tmp/.gamewrapper/sockets/smaemoblocksv0.1 1 /tmp/.gamewra11,5217:53
sampesonso one third of the core dumps comes from browser17:53
sampesonis there by the way some way to check which of those are critical progs that create system restart?17:54
sampesonor is it so that they don't create any watchdog resets17:55
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Unique311any one use the command line to nstall apps17:57
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Unique311if so..  can ya send e the commands you us for retrieving maemohackers and oakcourt gpgkeys17:59
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Unique311having errors from those 2 about the keys18:01
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sp3000sampeson: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets18:07
bipolarkkito: how goes the qt4 work?18:14
kkitobipolar, i am working on the virtual keyboard, but it is a shit... because it is developed on top of gtk....18:16
bipolarkkito: how does it send keystrokes?18:16
kkitobipolar, using the gdk/gtk window/event management18:17
kkitoit is hard and ugly develop a hack fot qt that support it....18:17
bipolarkkito: jeez18:17
bipolarwhy didn't they use X like xvkbd? there must have been a reason....18:17
sp3000sampeson: (also, pastebin) :)18:18
kkitobipolar, i dont know but nokia people must to develop a virtual keyboard that can be integrated easy and without gtk dependencies to any X app18:19
bipolarkkito: how does a bluetooth keyboard work then... X must have the abiltiy to use the standard input devices....18:20
kkitobipolar, i havent a bluetooth keyboard :(18:20
kkitoanyways qt runs really good on n80018:21
kkitobetter than gtk+18:21
bipolarkkito: you can use x2x if you need to do input testing.18:21
bipolarkkito: did you figure out what causes some apps to not load?18:22
kkitobipolar, :) i didnt know of that soft.18:22
bipolarkkito: hehe.. it's really, really cool.18:22
kkitobipolar, qt apps run ok, it is some kde4 apps that didnt run, but perhaps is a kde4 fault because it is in alpha state18:22
kkitobut it is awesome how well kde4 apps run on the n800... :)18:24
bipolarkkito: what does work?18:24
bipolarkkito: that... is.... awesome18:25
bipolarkkito: is the standard maemo stuff still running in the background?18:27
kkitobipolar, not at all18:27
bipolarkkito: ahh...18:27
bipolarkkito: maybe a port of xvkbd is in order then? :)18:27
kkitobipolar, yes i am doing it now :)18:28
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keesjkkito: what kind of crazy version is that?18:38
kkitokeesj, the kde version?18:39
kkitokde4 alpha 318:39
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Superbiabah.. I have needed to reflash my n800 twice now for no apperant reason... :S18:47
Superbiaanyone else having problem with the N800 acting "funky"?18:48
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maddler[mbm]: alive?18:53
maddlerSuperbia: why reflashed?18:53
maddlerI mean... failed to boot or something?18:54
Superbiamaddler; it went into reboot loop... first time it's been run till battery dried out, loaded it and reboot loop... second time... just flashed... had it turned off over night to reinstall apps today and bang... reboot loop again18:56
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maddlertry to understand if the loop occurs after installing a specific app...18:58
maddlerinstall one by one...18:58
maddlerand try to reboot after each install...18:58
SuperbiaI thought see first... but as the first time it started like that it hadn't gotten anything installed for several days and been rebooted several times... second time I had just flashed it, checked that it booted, turned it off then when I turned it on the next morning reboot loop18:59
maddlerboring stuff... but it will save you from the next reflash... ;)18:59
maddlerSuperbia: solar flares... :)19:00
Superbiayeah... when I get it working I will make my own flash to have ready with apps and alls :P19:00
Superbiamaddler; haha to much BOFH ^^19:00
maddlerSuperbia: yep... I was also thinking about a custom rootfs...19:01
maddlerBOFH rules!19:01
Superbiaohh yeah :D19:01
[mbm]maddler: yo19:01
Superbiayeah... custom rootfs == ghost for tablet :P19:01
maddler[mbm]: left suspend19:02
maddler[mbm]: left running tonight...19:02
maddlerand... BOOM! :D19:02
maddlerthis morning the battery was depleted...19:02
maddlerand needed to remove it in order to be able to reboot :)19:02
[mbm]weird; mine's been in suspend for the last 9 hours19:02
[mbm]battery looks fine19:03
maddlermaybe not being in RD mode...19:03
[mbm]only sign of anything odd is that the dsp is hung19:03
[mbm]haven't figured out the magic dspctl command to reset the dsp19:04
[mbm]hm the battery meter is pretty useless19:06
[mbm]would like to know actual drain, percentage .. etc19:06
maddleryep... that would help...19:07
[mbm]right now I only know that the battery meter shows the same thing it did 9 hours ago19:07
NickDe[mbm]: that can't be that hard to implement and hildonize19:07
[mbm]which means the suspend script must be doing something19:07
NickDe[mbm]: Mine has been in suspend with the script almost since you gave it to me.. woke up fine19:07
NickDeand batt looks ok19:07
maddlerI'll try again tonight with RD mode on...19:08
NickDeI would like a better batt app19:08
[mbm]maddler: as I said before; I run rd mode with lifeguard and omap watchdog turned off19:08
[mbm]could probably manage with the omap on, but afaik the lifeguard would reboot due to loadavg being too high aver a suspend19:09
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maddler[mbm]: yep... I simply wasn't too lazy to enable RD before goint to bed... :)19:16
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kendernice to see you maddler19:18
maddlerTTL here!19:25
maddlerlater, folks!19:25
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bergieis there pysqlite for bora?20:49
bergiethere was for maemo 2...
mgedminthere's python 2.5 for bora20:51
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mgedminpython 2.5 has a sqlite module in the standard library20:51
mgedminyup, import sqlite3 works20:52
mgedminbergie: ^20:52
bergieah, great20:53
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nealhow are the POIs for memo mapper supposed to work?20:53
bergieneal: there's some info here...
bergieI'm just looking at autopopulating some wikipedia data there20:56
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bergieat least this works ;-)20:58
bergieimport sqlite320:58
bergiecon = sqlite3.connect("/home/user/MyDocs/.documents/poi.db")20:58
bergiecur = con.cursor()20:58
bergiecur.execute("select * from poi order by lat, lon")20:58
bergieprint cur.fetchall()20:58
mgedminneal: you hold the stylus pressed for a while on a location, and then you can add/edit POIs from the popup menu21:00
nealah, cool21:01
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bill20r3anyone with a N800 have a few minutes for some pre-purchase questions?21:06
bill20r3how is the battery life in the real world?21:06
tombohthe POI stuff is neat - I've imported data from RDF without too much trouble21:06
tombohjust need to get rid of the purple squares now :)21:06
kenderbill20r3, it depends of the usage (wifi)21:07
thomasvstomboh: how do you import it ?21:07
kenderbill20r3, using wifi all the time, I calculate arround 5 hours21:07
thomasvsand on a related note, why does it only show purple dots and not some text or something ?21:07
bill20r3does it depend on the wifi being on and associated to an AP, or to how much actual traffic you're passing?21:07
bill20r3kender, 5 hours huh? that's better than I'd have guessed.21:08
bill20r3have you been happy with your n800 so far?21:08
tombohthomasvs: some messy XML SAX parsing in Perl and DBD::SQLite21:08
kenderyeah, I'm very happy21:08
mgedminI charge my n800 once or twice a day21:08
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bill20r3I mostly just want it for reading boingboing on my sofa, and irc'ing.21:09
bill20r3is there a good irc client?21:09
kenderthere is xchat21:09
kenderbut is a little bit deprecated21:09
kenderwe have ircii also21:09
bill20r3I had a zaurus, anyone know how it compares to that?21:09
mgedminwhat does 'deprecated' mean in this context?21:09
bill20r3"unmaintained" I'd guess.21:09
bill20r3bitchx in a console is fine for me.21:09
mgedminxchat works well enough for me21:10
bill20r3the zaurus looked great in demos, but was pretty clunky to actually use.21:10
mgedminthe quirks are that some gui dialogs do not fit in the screen21:10
kenderit haaven't got fullscreen mode21:10
nealbill20r3: You want to spend 400EUR to read boingboing from your sofa?21:10
bill20r3it's only $400US for me. :-)21:11
bill20r3a little better.21:11
[mbm]damn keyboard support21:11
[mbm]I did an x2x and connected to my n80021:11
nealI have a 770 and I find the web browsing experience horrible21:11
mgedminmbm: woohoo21:11
mgedminneal: n800 is much better21:12
[mbm]works fine except the enter key21:12
nealopera has horrible navigation features21:12
Takactually skyhusker's xchat is very nice21:12
bill20r3I dont suppose you can change the battery while it's suspended?21:12
nealand the screen is too small21:12
[mbm]which seems to be mapped to 'bring up the fullscreen keyboard'21:12
mgedminit graduated from "horrible" to "usable"21:12
[mbm]bill20r3: nope.21:12
mgedmin[mbm]: the hildon input method does that21:12
mgedminyou can switch to xim and use the keyboard normally21:12
[mbm]bill20r3: as shipped, the n800 really has no concept of suspend21:12
[mbm]mgedmin: details?21:13
nealmgedmin: I doubt the n800 fixes these problems21:13
mgedminthe wiki had instructions for setting up keyboard shortcuts to switch between xim and hildon-input-method21:13
bill20r3is the handwriting recognition good enough to actually use? (that is, as least as good as a Pilot)21:13
mgedminor you can try shift+f10 and choose the input method there21:13
mgedminthe wiki page I mentioned:
mgedminbill20r3: hw recognition is not good enough, imho21:14
mgedminI liked graffiti21:14
mgedminI find the virtual kb easier to use than the hw misrecognition21:14
[mbm]the handwriting sucks, although I suppose you can manually retrain each character21:14
TakI *love* the fullscreen thumbboard21:14
bill20r3can you use a usb keyboard, or only bluetooth?21:15
[mbm]I did find one use for the handwriting mode21:15
[mbm]which is that you can define arbitrary scribbles to be 80+ character commands21:15
[mbm]so I have a few scribbles which ssh into my machines and type passwords21:15
mgedminso far nobody succeeded using any USB device with the 77021:15
mgedminso far nobody succeeded using any USB device with the N80021:15
mgedminmbm: I had a spiral scribble mapped to 'source ~/.profile' :)21:16
mgedminnow I have a osso-xterm sidebar button mapped to that21:16
bill20r3how big is the N800 charger?21:17
disqby sidebar buttons are pgup pgdn home end tab esc enter(yes, because popping the vkb in mc is ugly) and ctrl21:17
mgedminmm, enter21:18
disqalso skyhusker's xchat is quite nice indeed21:18
mgedminI have pgup/pgdn/home/end there, but never use them21:18
mgedminI also have ctrl-d, useful for mutt :)21:18
[mbm]I have the sidebar set to pgup/pgdn ctrl-a ctrl-c ctrl-d21:18
Takdisq: only thing missing IMO is fullscreen21:18
mgedmindisq: is there more than one xchat port for maemo?21:18
disqi had a osso-xterm patch that enabled hwkey shortcuts to act as home/end/pgup/pgdn (you would first hit esc then leftarrow, it would translate as home) but it's not necessary with the new stuff now21:19
Takyeah, there's one in extras and another21:19
disqTak: it has fullscreen21:19
disqmine has it21:19
[mbm]odd; the enter on the keypad is properly mapped.21:19
disqyeah. the bora build21:19
Takyeah, doesn't work for me on the 77021:20
Taknot a huge deal though21:20
disq[mbm]: valid return sequence (that won't pop up the vkb) is KP_Enter21:20
mgedminI noticed one nice effect: if somebody mentions your name when xchat is minimised, its icon in the task navigator pulses slowly21:20
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mgedminhm, nobody added xchat to downloads.maemo.org21:21
disqyeah it does :) though i only use xchat when i'm quite bored in a bus trip21:21
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disqto check out what's been going on here (got miau the irc bouncer set up)21:21
disqi could also use the maemo irc logs archive :)21:22
[mbm]yay; xim works21:22
mgedminwhat sillyness, search for "xchat" doesn't find it21:22
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mgedminhm, "x-chat" works21:23
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disqnew info about the locking mechanism: mce disables keyboard interrupts (on the n800 only) and blanks display, meanwhile osso-systemui-tklock eats keypresses21:23
mgedminis the power button a regular key, or is it handled differently somehow?21:24
jobiit's handled differently21:24
mgedminmce must notice power button presses even when keyboard interrupts are disabled, I suppose21:24
disqbut it's also a regular key. XK_Execute.21:25
jobiI think it gets them from the kernel, bypasses X21:25
mgedmindisabled kb interrupts might explain that bug I saw when it was impossible to unlock my n80021:25
* mgedmin apparently has the xchat without fullscreen support21:25
disqmaybe gtk windows block it but x windows receive it21:25
Tak2.6.something is the extras one; 2.8.0 is the skyhusker one21:26
mgedminyes, skyhusker is mentioned in the about dialog, and it is 2.8.021:26
disqin fact, the latest rdesktop listens for keypresses and on XK_Execute it minimizes the actual x window21:26
* mgedmin opens app manager and checks for upgrades21:26
mgedminin os2006 the app manager offered me to update package lists when I pressed the "check for updates" button; in os2007 it doesn't21:27
[mbm]there's a reload button on the toolbar21:27
mgedminI don't see one21:27
mgedminthere's "update", info and search21:27
[mbm]rightmost button; two arrows in a circle21:28
mgedminnot here21:28
* [mbm] switches out of redpill and looks21:28
disqonly redpill has the refresh button in the mainscreen21:29
disqnot sure about the toolbar21:29
[mbm]ah; redpill only21:29
[mbm]just checked21:29
VeggenI prefer running in redpill, but I'm rather careful about what I install/upgrade.21:30
[mbm]ditto; afaik the busybox will still brick the device21:30
[mbm]which means I can't use magic:sys21:30
[mbm]and app manager ignores a dpkg hold or force-version21:31
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[mbm]other major gripes with app manager - you can't queue up multiple packages; you install them individually and each time it scrolls back to the top of the list21:32
Veggenmmm, major one, yes.21:32
[mbm]I'd also like 'these are the new packages in the repo' screen21:32
[mbm]saw someone ported synaptic; tempted to use that21:33
mgedminooh, that one, very annoying21:33
bill20r3am I going to want a SD card with a n800?21:33
mgedminbill20r3: depends21:33
Veggenbill: definitely.21:33
mgedminit comes with a 128 mb one21:33
Veggenwell, depends, yes.21:34
mgedminif you have any mp3 files/ebooks/videos, you'll definitely want a bigger one21:34
bill20r3how big of an SD will it support?21:34
* [mbm] uses two 4G sd cards21:34
mgedminI ran out of space on my 1 gig rs-mmc on the 770, so I bought a 4 gig SD card21:34
derfIt claims to only support 2GB cards.21:34
mgedminnote: officially the n800 supports sd cards up to 2 gb21:34
mgedminsome 4 gb sd cards (those that are not sdhc) also work21:34
[mbm]if you go higher than 2G (or certain 4G cards) then you need to update the kernel to SDHC21:34
mgedminthere's a patched kernel that adds support for sdhc cards21:34 had a couple of sales last month for 2GB cards for $0 after rebates.21:35
mgedminI expect nokia will include that patch in the next os2007 revision21:35
mgedmin(this is what happened with the 770 and 2 gb rs-mmc card support)21:35
[mbm]got my 4G cards off amazon; transcend 4G.. ~ $50 or21:35
bill20r3what's the main app repository site?21:35
[mbm]works without the SDHC kernel21:35
derfThey also had some ridiculous "Use Google Checkout for the first time and get $10 off" deal.21:36
derfSo I actually got paid $10 to buy the card.21:36
derfAnd will never, ever use Google Checkout again.21:36
kenderbill20r3, maemo repository extra21:36
kenderand maemo repository itself21:36
Takaww, no 16g sdhc yet21:37
bill20r3err, I meant "where can I go look at what apps are available"21:37
[mbm]hmm .. anyone know the api for getting the battery status?21:37
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[mbm]bill20r3: I'll print you a list21:39
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kenderthere are more, but most of them are here21:40
[mbm]that's with the various repos I have in mine21:41
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[mbm]heh, cute /sys/bus/spi/devices/spi1.0/disable_{kp,tp}21:50
Unique311mbm the difference between openwrt and dd-wrt21:51
[mbm]this is hardly the place, but since you asked - dd-wrt is an end user "click the webpage button" sort of thing, and openwrt is a "let's make it into a linux distribution"21:52
[mbm]hmm.. n800 has a temperature sensor?21:53
Unique311linux distro on a router r regular desktop21:53
[mbm]it's a mini debian for your router21:54
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kender[mbm], you have said, temperature sensor?!22:03
[mbm]kender: yep, although I'm not sure what it's attached to22:04
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mgedminhyperspace, probably22:05
[mbm]cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/1-0048/temp1_input22:05
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disqit detected temp changes fine here, probably one of the chips have it internally (but which one)22:07
[mbm]not even sure what the units are22:07
[mbm]hmm .. /sys/module/omapfb/parameters/accel = 0 ?22:09
* [mbm] turns accel on.22:09
disqsince temp1_crit_hyst is 75000 i'm assuming that's 75 degrees celcius22:10
[mbm]seems a bit high22:10
disqand temp1_crit is 80000. 75/80 celc are common temp alert values22:10
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disqok let's put it in the freezer and see22:10
mgedminyay for science!22:11
mgedminfwiw temp1_input is 37500 here22:11
mgedminthe n800 is chargin, and does not feel warm to touch22:11
[mbm]27500 in a nice ac'd office22:11
disqit's at 23750 and won't come down22:11
disqerm, 23500 now22:12
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disqyeah it detects changes as .25 points at a time (250 units)22:12
[mbm]hmm the omapfb/accel didn't magically give me any more fps in mplayer22:14
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maddler24500 here :)22:16
maddlerin my room...22:16
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derf[mbm]: AFAIK, battery status is sent via d-bus.22:18
ajturner[mbm] accel?!22:18
[mbm]derf: this is on the i2c bus; named 'tmp105'22:19
* [mbm] pokes around the sources22:19
[mbm]ah, it's one of these -
[mbm]should dig up that picture someone took of the board and see if there's a tmp105 on one of the chips22:23
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bergiehey, I've just written a script that populates Maemo Mapper POIs from nearby wikipedia pages22:28
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dragornhuh thats fun, my 800 was sitting there charging w/ an xterm open and decided it needed to reboot22:29
[mbm]looking at the 1200dpi scan of the board; don't see a tmp105 .. might be included in one of the other chips22:30
[mbm]dragorn: mine did that until I disabled the watchdogs22:30
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Unique311mbm i do care..  using d-wrt on my router....22:35
Unique311i killed that router so many times..trying different firmware...22:35
Unique311kinda happy with dd-wrt22:36
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bergiehere's an example of a positioned wikipedia page:
bergiebunch of them around...
derfWhoa, that's awesome.23:00
dragornneat trick23:01
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disqeko's (the guy in patch included icons for poi categories, maybe maemo mapper already supports the icons but it's undocumented?23:04
disqthough it could also be in the help file23:04
disqbergie: neat :)23:04
disqbergie: the package is actually named "geoclue", all lowercase. you might want to mention that. though nevermind, most people will just use the appmanager23:11
disqmmm. "The name org.foinse_project.geoclue.position.hostip was not provided by any .service files"? is there a seperate python bindings package?23:13
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bergiedisq: it *should* be coming from geoclue23:14
bergiewikipedia2poi just uses DBUS to talk with it23:14
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disqit's a geoclue problem i think23:18
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bergiedisq: it worked for tigert at least23:19
bergieget the latest geoclue package23:19
disqVersion: 0.2svn20070301-0mh123:19
disqgotta ask inz23:19
bergieah, wait... you also need the position provider package :-)23:20
disqahh had to install geoclue-server-position-hostip23:20
disqinstalling now23:20
disqyeah works. though i need something to fake my position :)23:21
disqsince my gps is still in the us waiting for delivery23:21
bergiehostip uses IP-based positioning23:21
bergieso it works if you're connected with a public IP23:22
disq-999.99, -999.99 :)23:22
bergieI got that from behind a NAT too23:22
bergiefrom my office network it worked, though23:23
disqwon't get any better than this since i can't connect my adsl line to the n80023:23
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bergieas soon as the dbus-python and python2.5 incompatibility is fixed for bora we can start using Plazes as the position source here23:23
disqi'll set my position in the script and to at least see what it comes up with23:23
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tigertyea it works great for me23:27
tigerthostip will work23:27
tigertpretty neat23:28
disqyou should get the poi db location from gconf :)23:29
disqmine is in /mmc2/appdata/mapper/poi23:29
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bergiedisq: yeah, that is a TODO23:31
bergieI haven't had time to learn GConf yet ;-)23:31
* bergie is a web/Midgard/PHP hacker23:32
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dragornso, say I nuked a module in my initfs, any way to flash just the initfs over usb, or am I going to have to nuke the entire device23:59

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