IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-02-27

kkitoSulis, what do you want, share or mount a smb drive?00:00
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kkitoSulis, the n800 kernel hasnt got support for samba filesystems, i dont know if in future version it will be included, anyways, there are some unnoficial kernels with smb support00:01
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Sulisoh really, well i'll have to learn to flash this thing eventually00:05
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Suliswhere can i find these unofficial kernels?00:05
kkitodid someone try to run qt4 on n800?00:06
kkitoSulis, i dont know, is better if you compile and configure your own kernel
Sulisah right, that's cool00:10
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kkitoSulis, if you are going to build your own kernel, perhaps you may want to patch the kernel with the sdhc patch, for newer 8GB Sd cards
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Sulisyes, that has been a part of my plans for the near future00:23
kkitoi dont know if there are a patch for usb host support too00:24
kkitoor if it can be enabled directly on the kernel configuration00:24
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Sulisi'm not too bothered about that, i don't really have anything that i want usb host for00:26
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viewok, I added a package catalogue, on my 770, and now whenever I open application manager, it doesn't respond.00:33
kkitoview, have you root access to the device?00:33
viewwell it's mine, but I don't know the root pwd00:34
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kkitooh but you cannot run the package catalogue00:36
kkitoview, without root access i dont know how to solve the problem00:37
kkitowithout reflashing the device offcourse00:37
kkitoyou can try to reboot the system00:37
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viewyeah, no help.00:46
viewjust freezes up every time00:46
kkitoview, :(00:47
viewanyway I can access the repository list via terminal00:47
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Takcat /etc/apt/sources.list00:48
viewpermissione denied00:49
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b0unc3view: you can't became root ?00:51
viewno, becomeroot isn't installed, and each time I open the application manager it freezes00:52
b0unc3ssh is installed ?00:53
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viewI don't think so00:54
b0unc3if you try to apt-get something it work ?00:55
b0unc3uhm.. but maybe it require root access...00:55
viewyes, it does.00:55
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b0unc3try to apt-get ssh or becameroot00:56
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viewwell I would, but becomeroot is in a different repository, that isn't intalled00:58
viewisn't in my sources list*00:58
b0unc3and if you download the .deb and install it with dpkg ?00:59
viewI dunno..00:59
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kkitoview, i think that you must to rerflash your device01:07
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srisup all01:13
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saerdnaeris there a way to get known why my rootfs from flash doesn't boot?01:43
saerdnaeri have a secondary rootfs to get to the files01:43
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_hijakkHey all, I hope I'm just blind - is there a way to set the desktop image?02:45
kkito_hijakk, yes you are blind!02:46
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_hijakkWoo, now how do I do it?02:48
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lirelentalright I'm trying to cross-compile a text only application on a ubuntu laptop for a n77007:47
lirelentso I followed
lirelentand 1st of all it tells me to use sb-menu instead of sbox-config07:48
lirelentwhich isn't a huge issue07:48
lirelentbut under the CPU-transparancy options the list is empty07:48
lirelentand I used the tar.gz packages07:48
lirelentsince I wasn't getting with the .deb packages07:49
lirelentany thoughts?07:49
lirelentsorry if I'm being terse07:49
tigert_install qemu?07:49
lirelentbut it's been a loooong night07:49
lirelenthow do you do that?07:49
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lirelenti downloaded it from the qemu site07:50
tigertapt-get? ;)07:50
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BrianRicedid you make sure to get exactly the scratchbox-apophis version linked?07:50
kulvelirelent: did you try the maemo-installer script?07:50
tigertbut the debian packages of sbox work fine on ubuntu07:50
lirelentkulve installer.txt didn't seem to indicate that exsisted for 2.207:51
lirelentjust for 3.007:51
lirelentroot@runabout:~/scratchbox# ls -l07:51
lirelenttotal 40379207:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 112652853 2006-12-22 07:29 Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_armel-rootstrap.tgz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 131391604 2006-12-22 07:29 Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_i386-rootstrap.tgz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   1901741 2007-02-05 18:16 qemu-0.9.0.tar.gz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  49932823 2006-11-30 12:30 scratchbox-core-1.0.7-i386.tar.gz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   5055791 2006-11-30 12:31 scratchbox-devkit-debian-1.0.6-i386.tar.gz07:51
kulvelirelent: ah, sorry07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  14395788 2006-11-30 12:31 scratchbox-libs-1.0.7-i386.tar.gz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  49751041 2007-01-12 05:29 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm-1.0.5-i386.tar.gz07:51
lirelent-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  47935438 2007-01-12 05:31 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386-1.0.5-i386.tar.gz07:51
lirelentthose are the versions I have07:51
lirelentand used07:52
BrianRiceactually, if i can be made to feel dumb for a minute, what is the solution to automatically connect to wifi networks that i trust?07:52
kulvelirelent: and probably:
BrianRicei keep googling and not finding anything, which is baffling to me07:52
Takafaik there isn't one07:52
Takat least not for 77007:53
BrianRiceTak: why not when the primary purpose of the device is to connect to the net?07:53
* Tak shrugs07:53
lirelentkulve do I just extract that to / like the other packages?07:53
soulblazethe n800 will cnnect to a trusted network..of course07:53
Takthey appear to have rectified in n80007:53
soulblazeit'll also connect to any open network in site07:53
tigertthere should be a setting in connection manager07:53
kulvelirelent: yep07:53
BrianRiceok, so netcat runs on it just fine but it can't auto-connect... seems like some shell scripts could fix this or something listening for the right dbus messages07:54
soulblazeI haven't used my n800 for anything besides an ebook reader in like a month..07:54
BrianRicehm, well alright. i'll keep looking07:54
lirelentooooh sweet thank SOOO much kulve07:55
kulvelirelent: np :)07:56
lirelentoh so under dev kits what should i choose07:56
lirelentcputransparancy or debian07:56
lirelentor both07:56
kulvebut not the debian sarge thing07:57
kulveall but the sarge thing07:58
lirelentand qemu-arm07:58
lirelentor qemu-armeb07:58
soulblazespeaking of arm t here any books that are out there that would be helpful to learn toc ode for the n800?07:58
kulvelirelent: latest qemu-arm07:58
lirelentuber ty kulve07:59
kulvesoulblaze: it's basic "linux coding"07:59
kulvejust few internet tablet related addons/tweaks07:59
lirelentwow I have to say this i just about the most useful irc channel I've /j ed08:00
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kulvelirelent: some times there are people that have time to help here and sometimes not ;)08:02
lirelentwell lucky me08:02
lirelentbeen a long day08:02
lirelentso a change of luck is nice08:02
soulblazeah so there's nothing specific? hm08:03
lirelentalright it's 1am so bed time, thank you again kulve08:04
kulvesoulblaze: something specific08:04
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kulvesoulblaze: especially:
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acydlordtigert, i love the theme :p08:10
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tigertman, i am going to work too early :)08:13
tigertthe irc is too quiet08:13
* tigert listens to adam curry instead to unbore himself in the bus08:14
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* Tak trolls the room to keep tigert busy08:25
Takmaemo sucks, why can't we have qt apps?08:29
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Takin all seriousness , the hildon spinner control could be a lot more thumb-friendly08:37
Takalternatively, I could just use a different control , but a spinner seems like the best fit for a range of integers08:41
tigertsorry, was gmailing :)08:44
tigerta lot could be more thumb-friendly08:44
BrianRicespeaking of which, at what level is the finger-ness of a click exposed?08:45
tigertbut that would mean a lot bigger widgets. how would we do that?08:45
tigertit would break many app layouts, and those small dialogs would need to die08:46
disqyeah we would need specialized wizard type dialogs. like mediastreamer has but wider, 4-6 pages or so :)08:48
Takwell, instead of [5]^v like it is now, it could be \/[5]/\08:48
tigertbut i must admit, after using the thumb keyboard, i dont want topickup the stylus much08:48
Taknot much size difference, but a lot more thumbable08:48
tigertyea, or dialogs and views could slide like on the ipod. but that would mean redoing most apps08:49
disqi hate how the normal vkb resizes hildonwindow when it pops up08:49
Takplus a lot of dialogs are already broken and need to be completely reworked (xchat)08:50
tigertor perhaps we should just experiment with this using  few apps08:50
disqand it keeps popping under certain conditions (opera keeps focusing to that damn textarea when you just need to scroll, etc)08:50
tigertdisq, it kinda has to, so your text entry field is not hiden under the keyboard08:50
disqis there a i dont want your stinkin vkb toggle somewhere btw? :)08:51
disqone could hit the rocker and enable thumbkb if needed08:51
disqor just press the finger etc08:51
tigerti would love to see maemo-mapper in canola-like thumbable ui08:51
tigertwith fullscreen thumb dialog for driving directions etc08:51
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disqthe translucent vkb idea is good, hope somebody develops it (as a replacement)08:53
disqthat way it also wouldn't resize08:53
disqhow was fosdem btw :)08:53
tigerti dont think its actuallly that good in use08:54
tigertplus real transparency eats cpu we dont have08:54
disqthe 2420 looks pretty idle to me :P08:55
disqof course it's not an option in the 77008:55
jacqueswhat about the 2d/3d graphics accelerator?08:55
disqjacques: that falls under the category of licensing and money (and possibly lawyers?)08:56
tigertalso even the iphone doesnt have it transparent08:56
disqiphone my ass, it's just a dumb phone :)08:56
tigerti think the problem is lack of feedback.08:56
soulblazea dumb phone with 3 xscale processors08:57
disqfeedback as in button-feedback, or licensing-feedback?08:57
tigertits already pretty tricky to type, what if it was evenharder to see the keys?08:57
disqmmm. if only we had 32bpp. though the hw designers first have to get a good screen, the digitizer's still screwed up with the n80008:58
disqof course the 32bpp/alphachannel effect can be done with wasting more cpu for convenience, but might need more integration/hacking with the x server since gtk+ possibly wouldn't support it that way08:59
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disqthe popped up vkb just takes up too much screen estate09:02
tigertyea. but it has to. it cant really be smaller either09:03
acydlordi like the vkb09:03
tigertits already inconvenient to type09:03
acydlordnokia should have made a n800 bundle with a btkb09:04
disqspace/prediction bar can be smaller, with real tiny fonts. probably numpad too09:04
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tigertthe thumb board is great, but of course it overtakes everything09:04
disqbtkb is too much clutter09:04
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acydlordi loved my btkb for when i had a desktop or something to set it on09:04
tigertbluetotooth keyboard works like shit when walking or standing09:04
disqalso the huge margins on everything doesn't help, and i still didn't check out hildon theme tools09:05
tigertits a mobile device. i have a computer when i am sitting on a desk09:05
tigertthe vkb doesnt have much margins that would affect this issue09:06
tigertthe spacing of buttons is in the theme bitmaps09:06
disqyeah its the theme. in fullscreen mode it's much better etc09:06
disqi mean the app margins, not the theming of the vkb :)09:07
tigertfix it :)09:08
tigertok, back with laptop, now I can type with a real kbd again09:08
tigertbut its scary, I cannot type any faster on this09:08
disq:) identify yourself (to nickserv, i mean)09:08
disqif it's not your laptop then you're bound to suck at typing. it's the laptop way(tm)09:09
tigertid'd even09:09
tigertthis is an ibm usb keyboard09:09
tigertits pretty good09:09
tigertbut I am pretty scary with the thumb keyboard typing09:10
acydlordi'm used to the thumb keyboard typing09:10
soulblazeever try one of those thumbpad-type bleutooth keyboards?09:10
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disqi'm getting used to it now that i know it averages the finger press09:10
acydlordbbl, phone09:10
disqbtw installed debian-armel on chroot as told in the ml09:11
disqlooks good, though firefox-arm (iceweasel or whatever) refuses to work09:11
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disqbtw tigert i updated maemopad+ again, added brush color dithering by pressure. it's not that good but it's different :)09:12
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BrianRicehm. where are the mappings from device buttons to keycodes documented, if anywhere except the header files?09:22
BrianRice(i discovered them via xev, but it'd be nice to know where that kind of info is provided)09:23 wiki09:24
BrianRiceis it really?09:24
disqalso they are in the app development tutorial iirc09:25
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disqtoo bad they're still F keys in 2.2 and 3.0 and not unused-weird X keycodes09:26
BrianRiceah, there is a hardware keys section there:
Andy80so active this channel, in the morning too :)09:30
BrianRice11:30pm here :P09:31
Andy808:30 am here :)09:31
* Andy80 yaaaaawwwwwnnnn..... :P09:31
BrianRiceany idea what's the most raw interface to the touchscreen pressure data?09:32
* BrianRice wonders if anything in /dev is useful09:35
koenBrianRice: I suspect you want to hook into tslib09:40
koenor Xsp as that sample says09:40
disqGtkInput/GdkInput works for me. tough it's not perfect on patiently slow strokes09:41
acydlordwhere is the nginx htdocs folder on the n800?09:41
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acydlordi want to try to install wordpress or a cms using nginx and sqlite09:53
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JaffaMorning, all10:37
keesjHi Jaffa10:38
keesjdid you manage to upload stuff to the maemo repository?10:39
JaffaNot yet, but I've not tried recently, TBH.10:45
keesjwhat about using hosting the offer to host an experimental mud repository? I don't want to be constrained much longer.10:51
acydlordsweet, the n800 works with my phone whereas the 770 didnt10:52
keesjguerby: do you have some information about how you use you n800 as phone?10:54
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acydlordi use my n800 as a sip phone10:56
Pinguinoany1 here from Israel?10:57
PinguinoI am looking for hebrew support10:57
Pinguinoon the N77010:57
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PinguinoI also have a question regarding the discount sent by e-mail10:59
Veggenacydlord: which sip-client?10:59
PinguinoI bought my 770 while visiting a friend in London11:00
PinguinoI live in Israel and what to use the discount I got for the 80011:00
Veggenacydlord: hmm. It looks like that when I enable second sip account, it logs into gizmo servers and then the gizmo servers log into the that true?11:01
Pinguinois it possible?11:01
acydlordyep Veggen11:01
keesjacydlord: So i need to look if I can use asterix to hoock up to my phone provider?11:01
acydlordPinguino, no idea unless you set up a forwarding address11:01
Veggenacydlord: hmmf. probably I need to get sip through my firewall, then ;)11:02
acydlordkeesj probably, i know you can use gizmo with skype too11:02
PinguinoI tried using an international credit card belonging to my local bank and it was rejected11:02
acydlordhave you tried calling nokia customer support to see if they will let you purchace it over the phone?11:03
acydlordi had to purchase my 770 that way because my business credit card doesnt have 16 digits11:03
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Jaffakeesj: " <gregale|bora|...> free" will work as the test repo.11:13
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AD-N770good morning11:14
acydlorddid anyone notice the little nokia ad for an official nokia cover for the n800 on tableteer last week?11:17
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JaffaPeople look at tableteer?11:22
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acydlordlol, i look at it occasionally11:25
maddleracydlord: it's only supposed to cover the scree... no added protection... afaik...11:25
maddlerJaffa: no... not really... :)11:25
acydlordyeah, it just looked like a little leather screen flap, but i haven't noticied it on tableteer or the nokia site since11:26
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maddleracydlord: it was on's N800 page as well...11:29
acydlordahh, i hadnt seen it on there11:29
acydlordhopefully more 3rd party case makers will make cases for the n800 since it has been getting more press than the 770 ever did11:30
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maddleracydlord: I hope so...11:31
glas5press where?  according to some nokia guy they don't practically market it at all outside usa..11:31
acydlordsomething with SD card pockets would be nice :)11:31
acydlordit's been getting a lot of press on the internet11:32
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inzacyd, there's now a experimental wordpress package in maemo-hackers repository11:52
inzacyd, it's not perfect, it's based on WordPress4Sqlite from
maddleracydlord: yep... I had an aluminium case for my Palm... it was awesome... and save my/our life more than once...11:55
acydlordthanks inz11:55
kkitosomeone here has problems with maemo gslice memory allocate?11:55
acydlordi had an aluminum case for my old palm zire that was a life send11:55
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hrwmweather someone?12:42
hrwor only I am can get only fscking pittsburgh in it?12:43
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hrwhi flatronf701C12:45
hrwhi florian_12:45
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florian_good morning12:46
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hrwflorian: with nokia770 I feel like sharprom user.. fetch this app from here, that from there etc...12:56
koenhrw: you can even install debian an use vnc to view it.....12:57
hrwkoen: kewl12:57
florianhrw: :-)12:57
hrwinstalling dropbear is... package mentioned in application catalog. then you go to dropbear homepage, then to maemo packages by someone-who-I-do-not-know-do-I-can-trust and then you can grab it12:58
nealhrw: You don't need dropbear12:58
nealhrw: just use mistral free12:58
nealand install ssh12:58
neal(from the commandline)12:58
hrwneal: I like dropbear because it is small12:59
VeggenAgree with the general opinion, though. More packages in "extras" and not in various private repositories would be good.13:00
hrwVeggen: if they use OE instead of what-they-use you would get a lot13:01
keesjveveggen. do you know why the external repositorie where created?13:01
Veggenkeesj: I don't know the history behind, no...13:02
VeggenThere might be a good reason, if so, then educate me ;)13:02
Veggen(from a user perspective, it's better in most ways to have a central "extras" repository - also because it forces people to cooperate and not create dependency-conflicts, etc)13:03
keesjoe might be the answer. i have a hard time understanding what oe is and how it works. pkgsrc might also be an answer13:04
keesjveggen. i don't know all the reasons for me it was to complicated13:05
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keesjcan bb generate .deb files?13:09
hrwkeesj: can13:09
hrwamount of informations provided by maemo package manager is below anything...13:10
hrw'unable to install maemo-mapper' is all - no info why13:10
nealcheck the log13:10
nealit's there just very hidden13:11
hrwcool.. dpkg status file is broken13:15
ptmanremove it, it should be rebuilt13:17
ptmanor move it, if you don't want to destroy it13:17
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hrwptman: first have to poweroff n770, connecto to pc, go into r&d mode to be able to use rootshell etc..13:18
hrwn770 - device for simple users only13:19
cosmo_wouldn't it be easier to just install the gainroot package? no r&d or reboot needed..13:19
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keesjwith a broken package manager?13:20
hrwcosmo_: to install something on dpkg/ipkg system you have their database working13:20
cosmo_oh, true ;)13:21
hrwis there a way to switch n770 to 24h mode? am/pm is not natural for me13:22
keesjis oe "self hosting" can i install it inside sbox?13:23
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hrwkeesj: OE is buildsystem13:23
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hrwkeesj: and any distro created with OE can use OE13:23
cosmo_hrw: when you start it first time, it asks locale-specific stuff.. have you checked the settings?13:25
hrwcosmo_: checked. it does not support Poland so I left any13:26
koenkeesj: OE is MUD on steroids13:26
JaffaStonkingly large amounts of steroids.13:33
keesjyes. i understand and i am interested. mud is for maemo that is why it is simple . i will try to have a good look at oe. It would help if the nokia guys could tell what they think. i have read that they where considering bb. if so i would like to kown that. i am quite happy with the current pickup rate of mud13:33
hrwbtw - is there home applet which allow me to put some quicklaunch icons?13:33
ptmanI think I saw one13:33
keesjbut mud needs to fix a few political  problems first in order to gain life13:34
lardmanhi hrw13:35
keesj hrhrw I don't think so13:35
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ptmanmaybe someone just mentioned how cool it would be in their blog on planet maemo, can't find it though13:36
keesjkoen i think whe have met at fosdem but i am not sure. i talked to an oe guy about 3rd apps and the java sandbox model13:37
lardmanWhat are the logistics required to use OE to build n770|800 packages? Could one do a half-way house without needing to build eveything (obviously not the toolchain, but libc, etc.)?13:37
koenlardman: it should be possible to use the scratchbox toolchain and ASSUME_PROVIDE gcc, glibc, etc13:38
koenkeep in mind that maemo doesn't have a real EABI glibc13:38
lardmankoen: Really?13:38
* koen vomits on the csl toolchain13:38
* lardman too13:39
koenlardman: it uses a small shim to translate syscall to OABI13:39
lardmanoh right, you learn something new every day :)13:39
hrwlardman: poky has support for it but it will be not added into OE13:39
keesjhrw i started something siimilar for bookmarks it is called cosy-booknarks it shoud be easy to extend the app to exec local apps13:39
lardmanhrw: support for what, the shim or nokia building?13:40
hrwlardman: nokia building13:40
lardmanhrw: Oh, good good13:41
acydlordwhats the string to execute the browser from gaim? i forgot it :(13:42
hrwanyway... maemo makes 800x480 screen working like 640x480 (in best case)13:42
ptmanhrw: ? most apps can be zoomed to fullscreen13:43
lardmanhrw: You're sounding a bit negative ;)13:44
hrwlardman: a bit? :D13:44
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hrwlardman: its my 8th or even 10th PDA-like device13:45
lardmanhrw: where'd you pick up a 770?13:45
obergix[work]lardman: that's the good surprise of fosdem for hrw ;)13:45
hrwlardman: got it during fosdem from MDK13:45
lardmancool, good for you13:46
lardmanwhat are your plans?13:46
lardmanfor it?13:46
hrwlardman: first look how it works, use it for some time and then time will show.13:46
obergix[work]lardman: porting openzaurus on it ;)13:46
hrwlardman: worst way: will gather dust13:46
lardmanobergix[work]: A gpe image already runs, just needs some fiddling to alter the backlight control and battery reporting13:47
hrwlardman: best way: Ångström with GPE insted of maemo thing13:47
obergix[work]hrw: :)13:47
lardmanhrw: I have some code for the battery reporting, just need to tweak minilite to talk to gconf for the backlight, or replace the initfs to be adventurous13:48
hrwobergix[work]: this device has some potential but I do not like maemo UI13:48
hrwlardman: or fix kernel driver to behave like it should13:48
hrwlardman: backlight driver is very,very simple thing13:48
lardmanhrw: It does behave, it's just overridden13:48
lardmanyou can get it to work via sysfs, but then the maemo stuff changes it back to the original value13:49
hrwlardman: if you have maemo stuff running..13:49
lardmanhrw: Yes, but it's the stuff in the initfs, which noone has replaced yet13:50
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MasakooHello Jtjk13:51
JtjkHello, hei13:52
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kkitowhat does the O and E on EABI OABI means?13:55
hrwOld, Extended?13:55
koenO = old E = embedded13:56
koenthe 'EABI' term was invented by marketing13:56
kkitoah ok13:56
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bedboihi there13:56
bedboianyone ever used GdkRegion ?13:57
kkitothen perhaps the OABI is the problem that i have with qt4 on n80013:57
kkitoi get a gslice memory allocate error when i try to run some qt4 app on it13:57
inzbedboi, what about it?13:58
kkitoi am building the qt4 without glib support.... perhaps it solves the problem :?13:58
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acydlordi hate when a file starts downloading around 2mbps, and then drops to around 2kbps13:58
hrw - my first rant13:59
bedboiinz: i define a GdkRegion which is an approximation of a circle14:00
bedboithen i try to use gdk_region_point_in, giving the center of the circle and it returns FALSE14:00
cosmo_"first not nice thing - flasher is available as binary only " ?14:01
bedboiwhich, damn, should be TRUE14:01
bedboiinz: and if i use gdk_region_get_clipbox it returns me a dummy rectangle (0,0,0,0)14:01
hrwcosmo_: - show me source here14:01
cosmo_there is clock applet, at least i got one.. and 24h clock14:01
inzbedboi, how does your approximation work?14:02
cosmo_hrw: who cares about the source if it just works?14:02
hrwcosmo_: I do14:02
cosmo_"to get rootshell you need to enable it from PC first" not true, just install the gainroot deb package14:02
bedboiworks quite well... i mean i have set N_POINTS and i evaluate in a for these N_POINTS14:02
hrwcosmo_: and I'm unable to flash n770 from few other devices which I have here14:02
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lardmanhrw: You should be able to remove applets from the main screen14:03
hrwcosmo_: can you install software with fscked dpkg status file?14:03
hrwlardman: statusbar applets14:03
inzbedboi, and you're using gdk_region_polygon?14:03
hrwlardman: home screen applets are awful too14:03
cosmo_"no good package management" it's better than symbian or zaurus at least, is there something better than the maemo apt-based system?14:03
lardmanhrw: Ah right, yep, that is a problem. I imagine you could do so with some symlink deleting14:03
bedboiinz: yep of course14:04
hrwcosmo_: dont make me laugh ok?14:04
cosmo_hrw: it's a special case if you get it corrupted. i've never had it happen..14:04
hrwcosmo_: run maemo package manager and tell me how to uninstall www browser14:04
bedboiinz: gdk_region_polygon(points, CIRCLE_POINTS, GDK_EVEN_ODD_RULE);14:04
cosmo_hrw: it's stored in flash, it cannot be uninstalled14:04
hrwcosmo_: never say never - I got corruption during first hour of usage14:05
hrwcosmo_: it can. nokia just does not allow to do it14:05
cosmo_hmm, i thought the files & packages in the flash image are read only?14:05
hrwcosmo_: ok, so maybe14:06
cosmo_and i wouldn't call it slow, compared to for example nokia communicators which use much the same hardware14:06
lardmanhrw: red pillmode14:06
hrwcosmo_: nope. rootfs is jffs2 - anything can be removed14:07
kkitoyes, the glibc oabi is the problem with qt4.... now qt4 is running on my n800 :D14:07
hrwcosmo_: I have pxa255/400 palmtops and they are faster14:07
hrwlardman: thx14:08
bedboiinz: LOL, there was a cut and paste error.... i was evaluating cos(theta) even for y14:08
inzbedboi, ;)14:09
suihkulokkihrw: do you run your pxa with a bitmap-intesive gtk theme?14:10
hrwsuihkulokki: I do not because I can choose to not14:11
cosmo_i still think the package management is the best available. only desktop linuxes have better GUI for it14:11
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hrwcosmo_: lack of ability to select 'I want those 5 to be installed during my lunch break' is not a bonus for me14:12
cosmo_is it possible on some mobile platform?14:13
hrwcosmo_: yes14:13
hrwcosmo_: any gpe/opie powered14:13
cosmo_the package manager gui is not the best, i'd prefer something like synaptic14:13
cosmo_hrw: they use ipk, which is buggy as hell14:14
hrwI like aptitude but it is not good for n77014:14
hrwcosmo_: thats the other thing.14:14
suihkulokkihrw: well, if you create a plain theme, you get much more responsive GUI14:15
Jaffahrw: gpe allows you to select packages and a time to install them? Cool.14:18
Jaffahrw: FWIW, many of your UI niggles are fixed in OS 2007/Maemo 3.14:18
hrwnow I need to get dropbear-server working, login and I see a way to gain few MB14:18
Jaffahrw: which you can now install on your 770 with the os2007on770 project (if you want to just hack about)14:19
bedboianother question: anyone knows how to vertical align a text in a pango layout?14:19
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hrwJaffa: and 'ofcourse' it req reflashing?14:20
Jaffahrw: "of course".14:20
inzbedboi, doesn't pango layout's height depend on the content?14:21
hrwn770 - upgrades in openwrt style14:21
bedboiinz: yep, you are right.14:22
bedboiinz: so if i have to gtk_paint_layout the pango layout in the middle of the rectangle i have to do some math14:22
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Jaffahrw: I'd like in-place upgrades, but can understand why Nokia did it the way they did with the resources they've got available. Given limited resources, I'd rather they focussed on getting fixed firmware images out than in-place upgrades.14:23
inzbedboi, int w,h; pango_layout_get_size(layout, w, h); gtk_paint_layout(yadayada, rect.x + (rect.width - w) / 2, rect.y + (rect.height - h) / 2); or something14:24
inzOops, &w, &h obviously14:24
hrwJaffa: it2006 backup -> it2007HE works?14:25
inzbedboi, And add PANGO_PIXELS() around w and h in paint_layout14:25
inzErr, don't use get_pixel_size instead ;)14:25
Jaffahrw: IT2006 backup -> IT2007 supposedly works, but I just tarred up my home directory.14:25
* Jaffa hasn't tried IT2007HE, since he sold his 77014:25
hrwJaffa: this device has it2006 since 11 today14:26
suihkulokkihrw: did you figure out why you don't have 24h already?14:27
acydlordi need to edit the stupid time ap since i live somewhere that's not listed on it and we don't have daylight savings lol14:28
hrwsuihkulokki: probably will have to dig which location has 24h and which not14:28
acydlordkinda screws up checking global times14:28
hrwsuihkulokki: and will get something like 'you live in Poland, use English language and Brazil language settings14:29
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acydlordbrb, checking gconf14:31
suihkulokkihrw: actually you just need to create the locale for pl_PL and get it to the device14:32
mgedminthere's a garage project for extra locales14:32
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mgedminI never bothered; panelclock gives me a 24 hour clock in the statusbar, which is all I need14:33
bedboiwell, i'm finishing developing a "circular" menu14:33
bedboii'll use that to input number in gpe-sudoku14:34
kkitooh, qt4 is really more responsive than gtk2 on the n800 ...14:34
acydlordlol nice, i just broke my clock =x14:34
suihkulokkikkito: let me guess: qt4 without pixmap theme is faster than gtk2 theme with heavy pixmaps?14:34
Jaffaqt4 with anti-aliasing?14:35
kkitosuihkulokki, offcourse i am using the default theme for the qt4, but anyways, i run qt designer and it really starts fast14:35
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kkitoqt4 is awesome14:36
kkitoJaffa, i dont know if it has antialiasing, i think that yes14:36
kkitothe font rendering is good14:37
acydlordanyone know how to add a time zone for the osso-clock on the n800??14:39
Jaffakkito: screenshots?14:43
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hrwJaffa: it2007 has some stuff from list done15:08
hrwbu.. Contact under it2007 cant import vcard with photo15:11
timelesshrw: um, got a url?15:15
timelessjust saying "foo doesn't work" isn't anywhere near as useful as either a url, or a url to such an example15:15
acydlordis it possible to open a text file via osso-xterm?15:16
hrwtimeless: url for?15:16
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timelessa vcard that doesn't import15:16
hrwtimeless: its private vcard sent from my mobile phone15:16
hrwtimeless: I can try to create similar vcard and test with it15:17
timelessyou can try using dbus :)15:17
timelesshrw: please do, and when you have one that fails, file a bug and attach the example15:18
hrwtimeless: sure15:18
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acydlordhow possible would it be to use the camera's orientation sensor to automatically switch the orientation in fbreader?15:30
JaffaIsn't the camera's "sensor" a mechanical switch on the rotation of the barrel?15:31
JaffaSo the answer to acydlord's question would be a "no"15:32
acydlordbut it's not :p15:32
acydlordopen your camera, and rotate the 770 upside down so you can still see the screen15:32
acydlorderr 80015:32
* shackan makes a try15:32
timelessfwiw, it's n800, please don't forget the n15:33
Jaffaacydlord: err, yes - does what I'd expect; unless I'm missing something.15:33
timelessboth in any presentations you make and any software you write15:33
acydlordin the camera app it flipped the image15:34
timelessfeel free to complain to nokia about the n if you like, but they'll ignore you :)15:34
acydlordthats right, they added it to the n series15:34
shackanok, pulled the camera, rotated the tablet, what am I supposed to see now ?15:35
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Jaffaacydlord: 1) open the camera: see yourself; 2) turn the N800 through 180 degrees, imagining an axis from you, through the screen. It will now be upside down and still facing you; 3) you'll still appear the right way up => image not flipped.15:35
JaffaThis was discussed on ITT, people displayed a distinct lack of knowledge of how a video camera and TV works.15:35
shackanwell.. lol15:36
acydlordmy brain is failing me this morning15:38
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acydlorddissregard my noobishness on that one lol15:38
shackananyway, I'm noticing the plastic layer on the screen is scratched WAY TOO EASILY, I use the utmost care with the pen but I really couln't avoid leaving scratches on it, it that normal ?15:39
kkitoyou can detect the camera movement, when there are enough movement you can do the screen rotation.... 1- open the webcam, 2-move the webcam (movement detected), 3- the screen is rotated 4- close the webcam15:39
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kkitoand the same to rotate the screen again15:39
kkitoanyways this is high cpu intensive15:40
acydlordi havent had any scratches on my n800, my 770 has a few hideous ones though15:40
Jaffashackan: keeping the thin plastic layer on it which came with it, or the actual screen itself?15:41
shackanJaffa, I left the plastic on15:41
acydlordbah, my text editor can't detect the charset for the files in /usr/share/zoneinfo15:41
kkitoa "mouse" gestures feature could be cool... press the "joyupad" middle button and without release the button write the gesture to the screen15:41
kkitoto rotate, full screen, close app, etc etc....15:42
shackanJaffa, was I supposed to remove the plastic ?15:42
acydlordthat would be pretty sweet15:42
acydlordyeah, you're supposed to remove that plastic15:42
acydlordif you're referring to the vinyl cling in the packaging15:43
shackanwhy is it there in the first place then ?15:43
acydlordto protect the screen during shipping and such15:43
shackanacydlord, I mean the adesive layer15:43
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shackanwell, good to know, I'll get rid of it once it becomes too scratched15:44
acydlordcan someone get me plaintext of the /usr/share/zoneinfo/US/Arizona file so i can update me clock? :)15:46
melmothacydlord ??15:56
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melmothnot 100% sure this is what you are looking for; but i guess it is15:56
acydlordnope, i need the x and y coord for the osso-clock so i can add my city15:59
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hrw~lart nokia16:13
hrwI wonder how device with so poor software support can get such popularity....16:13
hrwah.. marketing...16:13
acydlordit's nothing compared to the miracle windows pulled with vista16:17
acydlordit's not even compatible with some microsoft software still16:17
osfameronalso, it's an internet tablet and the internet application works well16:17
osfameronthe fact that the media player and rss reader suck rocks is beside the point16:18
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osfameronto be fair, the ssh client is rather nice16:18
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hrwosfameron: too bad that you need to hunt for extra applications instead of just select them in package manager16:19
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osfameronhrw: yeah, the default config of the package repos is poor16:21
acydlordmy main qualm with it is the lack of certian time zones, and the email client needs features16:21
osfameronI like the "Install now" functionality on some sites16:21
osfameronI've not used the email client yet16:21
osfameronI wish the RSS reader worked, it would be really cute16:21
lardmanhrw: That is the goal of the MUD project, remove the need to hunt about16:21
osfameronwhat is MUD ?16:21
acydlordrss reader works fine for me16:21
lardmanhrw: Using OE would be even better16:21
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osfameronacydlord: really? I have 2 problems - 1) some RSS feeds cause it to crash, and 2) the scrolling is completely broken on very long pages16:22
hrwlardman: OE lack maemo stuff16:22
acydlordwell yeah thescrolling on the rss reader does suck16:22
lardmanhrw: I just want it to build packages and stick them in a feed for me16:22
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lardmanhrw: A maemo-ised package is just one with some extra patches, etc.16:23
osfameronacydlord: more than sucking, it's broken.  Sometimes it's almost impossible to scroll past an entry that it seems to want to stay on...16:23
acydlordi had the same problem with the rss reader on the 770, i think someone mapped the scroll inputs to the wrong pixels lol16:24
osfameronlardman: ta16:24
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hrwuf! Polish locale installed16:24
Jaffaosfameron: is prettier than the garage page ;-)16:28
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osfameronJaffa: so it is!16:30
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koenhrw: I'll have a look at adding maemo4 (aka hildon-one) to OE after I finish writing my presentations and lab assignments16:31
lardmankoen: Do you plan on adding all of the maemo packages? Or a maemo config?16:32
koenlardman: I'll add just enough bits to build maemo-mapper16:32
koenlardman: dunno what the rest of the OE devs will add16:32
lardmankoen: Ah, fair enough, so it'll have all the assume provided bits, or a replacement of the csl toolchain?16:33
chulleranyone here ever used the navicore navigation software for n770 ? Should it work on n800 as well ?16:33
koenI want to run hildon stuff on !nokia devices16:34
lardmankoen: oh right16:34
koenso I don't give a shit about crappy toolchains16:34
lardmankoen: I was just wanting to remain compatible with the Nokia stuff, but still use OE/bitbake to build packages (& deps) without all the fannying about16:34
* lardman thinks that sounds like the Sharp 'ROM' ;)16:35
koenthat's a nice goal, but I'm not going to spend time on that16:35
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lardmankoen: If i have assume_provided16:35
lardmanassume_provided_libc=some_nokia_version, will it be copied into tmp or used in place? Same with toolchain, etc.16:36
shackanwhen I connect to a wep network, what type of key type does the n800 connection manager assume ? it doesn't ask for any16:37
koenit will be assumed to be provided16:37
koenso you have to place it in staging/lib yourself16:37
lardmanI see16:37
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hrwlardman: currently nokia 770/800 is like sharprom16:43
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hrwhm. bt in n770 support more then one BT connection in same time?16:46
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Veggenhrw: yes.16:46
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lardmanhrw: Yes, but I don't have any real problem with that atm, I just want to be able to build stuff easily16:47
hrw~curse nokia morons16:47
JaffaWhat now? ;-)16:47
lardmanThough more info about the dsp would of course still be appreciated16:48
hrwinstalling software on nokia is ..... and .... and ....!#$.16:48
hrwdependency hell like in redhat few years ago, like in sharprom...16:48
hrwto install maemo-mapper you need: install sqlite3 (by hand), libxau (by hand) and then maemo-mapper16:48
lardmanIndeed, for those who wonder at hrw's outbursts, you should try openzaurus on a Zaurus, all the deps are available and install automatically. I hope Nokia will go that way16:49
hrwdevice should be EASY to use16:49
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hrwnokia did n770 in own style.. their phones are 'easy' so why not tablets? :D16:50
lardmanbecause other people want to add stuff!16:50
Veggenmmm, all of this isn't nokias fault.16:50
lardmanno, it's not16:51
hrwVeggen: then why there is NO repository with SOFTWARE?16:51
acydlordi don't have any problem with the way programs are added on the tablets, i'm used to debian so i'm right at home16:51
tombohhrw: I installed maemo-mapper using the Package front-end and it automatically dealt with its dependencies16:51
VeggenIt would help if the Nokia community could agree on a repository to use ;) (the "extras", probably)16:51
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glas5openzaurus is not by sharp either..16:51
hrwtomboh: which repositories had to add?16:51
Veggeneh, the maemo community16:51
lardmanhrw: Have you added the repos?16:51
hrwlardman: extra one16:51
tombohhrw: it was a gregale repo from mamo extras, IIRC16:51
mgedmindum-de-dum, hrw must be living in some alternative universe16:52
mgedmininstalling maemo mapper was a single click for me16:52
tombohI don't have my 770 to hand, unfortunately16:52
acydlorddoes anyone know how to synch osso-clock with tzconfig?16:52
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mgedminthe single-click install files help dealing with the repository mess, although I sometimes have doubts whether it is a step in the right direction16:52
lardmanhrw: add the Maemo repository16:53
lardmanmgedmin: what does single click do, does it add the repo as well as installing?16:53
tombohlardman: none of those repos contain the latest maemo-mapper as it's only in the gregale repo for 77016:53
Veggenmgedmin: fewer repositories is better. I don't really like things automatically messing with my sources.list.16:53
tombohit's not in mistral16:53
lardmantomboh: No, but libXXX is probably in there16:53
hrwmgedmin: I maintain OpenZaurus for years16:53
acydlordi installed maemo-mapper from one of the repos with no problems16:54
lardmanlikewise, but I'd already added lots of extras to pull in the extra libraries16:54
lardmans/extras/extra repos16:54
acydlordyeah, first thing i did when i got home with the n800 was added all the repos they had listed in the wiki16:54
hrwmgedmin: last release had 12000 packages available - 3-4 thousands of source packages was used to build repository16:55
lardmanhrw: Agreed, this is why all of the various repos ought to be centralised, though not necessarily by Nokia16:55
acydlordif i could only get this clock problem fixed i'd be happy for now16:55
lardmanhrw: Which is where MUD or OE steps in16:55
hrwlardman: I just wonder why after about 2 years from release of n770 it is still not done16:56
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lardmanhrw: OE took a while to happen16:56
hrwlardman: even sharprom users got repository with OE software16:57
lardmanhrw: Only because OE existed though. People reach the limits of what they can do (compiling things themselves), then they look for another way; that's much like what happened for openzaurus.16:58
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lardmanhrw: I think that as more devices and software versions cohabit (and therefore need to be built and maintained), there may be even more drive to automate the building and patching, which is what OE stemmed from16:59
osfameronxwhat's OE?16:59
osfameronxlooks like the same kind of thing as scratchbox ?17:00
hrwosfameronx: buildsystem capable of building packages, toolchains, distributions for many different machines/architectures17:00
hrwosfameronx: more then17:00
* timeless wonders how friendly the flasher is to random platforms17:00
timelesshas anyone here looked at how the osx flasher works? :)17:00
JaffaPart of the problem with the extras repository stems from the version/codename mess that Maemo 2.x/3.0 had. ie. "mistral/scirocco/gregale" all effectively being compatible, and often compatible with bora17:00
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Jaffatimeless: reverse engineering the USB protocol is your best bet.17:01
timelessjaffa: not quite on my todo list17:01
lardmanJaffa: At the moment they are compatible, but that needn't be the case forever17:01
lardmanDoes anyone know whether a .install file can be used to just add a repo? Do they act temporarily by adding the repo to install some package, or is the repo then saved for later use too?17:03
Jaffalardman: no, and when they're not compatible, change the version number. Debian don't change "sarge" to "bob" when they change a version.17:03
Jaffalardman: they can just add a repo, I believe. And the repos remain.17:03
lardmanJaffa: Cool, thanks17:03
lardmanJaffa: There should be some install files on the page then17:03
lardmanIMO anyway17:04
suihkulokkiWell I think it's stupid to make give codenames to releases that are 100% bugfixes only17:04
suihkulokki2.0, 2.1, 2.2 where all just bugfixes17:04
* Jaffa wonders if we'd be better off just getting rid of all of the mistral/scirocco/gregale/bora distinction, and just use "Depends: maemo (>= 3.0)" in the package.17:04
Jaffalardman: agreed17:04
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lardmanThe version thing would be solved by depending on a Maemo package, or on any other package that is updated between the versions. But this assumes a single repo that holds all of the debs for a given release17:07
hrwJaffa: and make people more annoyed because they have soft in package manager and cant install it17:07
lardmanhrw: How's this done with OZ, I can't remember17:07
Jaffalardman: yes, the point is that it'd make it easier for both users and developers to use ExtrasRepository17:07
shackanbloody hell, I just feel so dumb, iwconfig eth1 mode ad-hoc essid .... channel 1 key restricted .... and the bloody tablet does not connect (at least, it gets no dhcp)17:07
lardmanJaffa: Yes it would indeed17:08
Jaffahrw: maybe. But that can be solved in the UI.17:08
lardmanOr by not adding repos that they can't install stuff from17:08
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hrwJaffa: by testing ALL packages descriptions to know which are installable? you are insane17:08
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Jaffahrw: eh? it's only the system meta-package you need to worry about, presumably other dependencies would be resolvable. And when in-place upgrades are possible, you can lift the restriction anyway.17:09
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JaffaHildon App Mgr is already parsing Maemo-Icon-26 from every package description to render an icon, checking a Depends: maemo (>= 3.0) should be perfectly doable.17:11
hrwI have to go17:11
lardmanbye hrw17:11
lardmanJaffa: So that's why it's so damn slow!17:11
Jaffalardman: :)17:11
JaffaHell, you could even filter them at the `apt-get update' stage.17:12
lardmanYes, that would probably be the best way, though then it becomes a bit more non-standard17:12
lardmanWhy not just separate the repos/feeds, and then for a last check depend on maemoX.x.x too17:13
lardmanwhich is much like what we have atm17:13
acydlordcan i edit a text file from osso-xterm without installing vi?17:13
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lardmanwith the official stuff17:13
lardmanacydlord: vi is installed by default isn't it?17:13
acydlordnot on the n80017:14
acydlordoh, guess it is =x17:14
acydlordi need either coffee or sleep17:14
Jaffalardman: because as a developer I don't want to compile the same thing 4 times and upload it to loads of different repositories (even using mud); as a user I don't want to add mistral repositories to my N800 in case it contains software which isn't compatible. but I've got to, as a minor API change occurs and a whole new repo is required.17:14
acydlordnow i just need to remember how to use vi17:15
lardmanJaffa: That's where MUD should handle deps, and auto build for different distros (like OE/bitbake)17:16
lardmanI think that's the point hrw was trying to get across: when a new openzaurus release is produced, it comes with a whole feed of packages that have been compiled to be compatible with it17:17
lardmanthe same sort of thing would be good for the various maemo releases17:17
lardmanespecially for third party applications17:17
deveshacylord: isnt nano there ???17:18
Jaffalardman: agreed, but we're a way off from that.17:19
acydlordnano isnt in xterm17:19
Takmakes sense - nano requires ctrl+blah to do anything17:20
mgedminmaemo-hackers xterm lets you use ctrl+blah17:21
Takyeah, but it didn't always ;-)17:21
Takat least not without fun menu exploration17:21
acydlordthe menu key lets you do ctrl+blah also17:21
kkitowho downloaded my qt4 build?17:22
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* Jaffa wanted screenshots not a tarball ;-)17:23
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Jaffakkito: Although it's cool you've got it working.17:24
kkitoJaffa, you downloaded the qt4? you must to try the qt designer or the qt demo, all the widgets on qt desiigner are really fast and responsive, and the dialogs etc load very fast.17:25
deveshkkito : do you have any link ? instructions. Would be interested to followup17:25
bipolarkkito: is someone building qt4 for maemo?17:26
kkitoyou onky must to extract the package with tar -xvzf qt4.tar.gz -C /path_where_do_you_want_to_install17:26
bipolarkkito: is it integrated well?17:26
kkitoi have it on /opt17:26
deveshkkito, so do i just untar it on the device . I have a n77017:26
kkitono no, no integration, only make it to build and run17:27
kkitodevesh, i compiled for the n80017:27
bipolarkkito: ok.17:27
deveshkkito : should not matter as the toolchains are the same.17:27
kkitothen you can try17:27
deveshkkito : cool .. downloading ......17:28
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lardmandevesh: As long as it doesn't need floating point/hasn't been compiled to use vfp17:28
deveshkkito : so it runs on x window as framebuffer ??? or just use the n800 framebuffer17:28
kkitoit is qt X1117:28
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kkitoit renders with X11 and Xrender17:29
deveshlardman: i think, there is compatibility on that level . no ?17:29
deveshwould need to check .. does it say something about that issue somewhere ?17:30
kkitoi dont use any Cflags to enable the vfp17:30
deveshkkito : what about  input ? does it have some kind of vkb ?17:31
kkitodevesh, no17:31
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shackanplease bear with me for a second, iwconfig eth1 essid id mode ad-hoc key restricted 00000 on my laptop, I use the same key on the n800, what's wrong ?17:33
florianhey devesh17:33
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deveshflorian: hi .. been a while17:33
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manaPirathi guys :)17:34
floriandevesh: yes indeed, how are you?17:34
manaPiratwell uhm, can you tell me what the cleanest solution fis to get net-tools or similar (ping, telnet, wget ...) for my N770?17:34
manaPiratshall i install i heard that net-tools isnt compatible :-/17:36
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mgedminmanaPirat: don't17:43
manaPiratyou cant tell or i shouldn? ;)17:43
mgedminif you upgrade the busybox on the 770 with a different one, you may render your 770 unbootable17:43
manaPiratuh .. ok17:44
manaPiratthat was close :D17:44
* manaPirat canceling17:44
mgedminthe one in is intended for scratchbox and doesn't have some of the plugins that the 770 needs17:44
Veggennothing that a reflash can't fix, though ;-P17:44
mgedmin(another good way to brick a 770 is to run sudo apt-get upgrade, or try to upgrade maemo-launcher)17:44
manaPirathmm ... so .. .. eh ;) .. is there a clean way?17:44
mgedminyes, a reflash fixes almost everything17:44
mgedminthere should be a package with ping etc.17:45
manaPiratjust want to ping :-/ .. broadcast :D17:45
mgedminbut I don't know if there is one17:45
mgedminI haven't looked yet17:45
Veggenmgedmin: The unbrickability is a thing Nokia have got right, at least :) Hard to brick totally.17:45
manaPiratok, thanks for the warning, saved me :D17:45
mgedminVeggen: try dropping it from some height17:46
mgedminshouldn't be too hard :)17:46
manaPirat*sigh no net*17:46
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shackanI'm seriously going to trow a chair out of the window17:50
manaPirathmm what du yoi think about how this guy does it ...
manaPirateeh "do you"17:51
shackana wep ad-hoc connection with my laptop, it's that simple, still no way to make that work17:51
kkitofor the people that downloaded the qt4, run qtconfig first, and change the theme (Plastique is nice...) and set the default font size to 1417:51
shackanmaddler, hi17:51
maddlershackan: hi17:51
Jaffalo maddler17:54
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maddlerJaffa: heya dude!17:55
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deveshdoes anyone knows how to enable hildon theme for a gtk application launched as sudo ?18:23
mgedmincan you not launch the application with sudo?18:26
mgedminon recent ubuntu systems synaptic runs as user, then invokes gksu for the actual package installation18:27
deveshmgedmin : yes for desktop with a proper concept of multiuser not like n77018:27
k-sdevesh: on maemo, try to run with run-standalone18:27
mgedminhow does the application manager work?  it also needs root, and it is themed18:27
deveshk-s: isnt that more for scratchbox18:27
mgedminare the sources of the app manager available?18:28
k-sdevesh: no, it sets environment18:28
mgedminI think so, for some reason18:28
k-smgedmin: yes, look at the repository.maemo.org18:28
nealdevesh : Why don't you use a sub-process which runs as root and communicate with that?18:28
deveshmgedmin : application manager is better architected, it has a worker process running as root , and the UI i think talks over pipe18:28
nealdevesh : Then you also control the complexity of the privileged code18:28
deveshneal : yes, but it would involve quite much rewrite of synaptic :(18:29
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Jaffadevesh: running the entirety of a GUI app as root isn't great, you should be able to use the existing app manager's sudo entries so users won't even need to gainroot.18:29
deveshjaffa : i agree with you ... but as i said, it would be going away from synaptic common code base18:30
deveshjaffa : i would have preffered more the gksu approach18:31
mgedmindoes gksu work on the 770?18:31
Jaffadevesh: how does it invoke apt? system("apt-get", "install", packages) ?18:31
deveshmgedmin : not yet ;) would require the xomap to run with auth  etc ...18:31
deveshjaffa : all over ipc pipe's .. using a proprietary (though source is available) protocol18:32
deveshmgedmin : would also mean that user need to know his/her root password18:32
mgedminyou mean, xomap doesn't support xauth?18:33
manaPirataaah .. hacking in busybox works :)18:33
mgedminisn't that part of the core protocol?18:33
manaPiratbut i picked the wrong build, the one without ping -.-18:33
deveshmgedmin : yes it supports but it is not by default launched with those flags18:33
mgedminactually, I once tried to make sudo update-manager passwordless on my ubuntu system, and that broke it completely18:34
acydlordwordpress = the slow on n80018:34
mgedminI began to suspect that gksu/gksudo doesn't support passwordless sudo18:34
deveshmgedmin : but i suspect even with gksu, i would still run in that theme problem18:34
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deveshmaybe best bet is to try run-standalone, i have though never tried that on device18:35
deveshand i think that still will not work ... i think the moment you sudo .. env is reset except for HOME and DISPLAY18:36
k-sdevesh: run sudo run-standalone.sh18:37
k-sdevesh: run sudo app18:37
deveshk-s : i will give it a shot18:38
deveshk-s : but does that mean i will have to add to sudoer file . that would be nasty18:39
mgedminmake your app a shell script that on your app.bin18:40
k-sdevesh: add your own wrapper, that does run-standalone18:40
k-secho -e '#!/bin/sh\ synaptic'  > /usr/bin/synaptic.sh18:41
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manaPiratyeha :D18:42
* manaPirat pings arround18:42
manaPiratcan you tell me how to type ctrl+x on maemo? :P18:42
manaPirataah ok sorry .. right mosue button18:43
* mgedmin blinks18:43
keesjin the xterm it is possible using the menu18:43
mgedminor the toolbar18:43
manaPiratindeed, thx :)18:45
manaPirati love homegrew .. the point where "nothing can be done" is pushed further18:46
manaPirattime so find out if the adhook wlan panasonic beamer in the meeting room has an ip and ports .............18:47
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deveshmgedmin : cool that works :)18:48
mgedmin(whatever that is)18:49
bedboiis there any documentation about how to write a widget for hildon?18:49
bedboii mean hildon only supports toplevel windows18:52
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bipolarkkito: what are your plans on using qt4 on the 800? I've done programing with qt4 and would love to be able to use it. A Kontact port would be awesome too. :D19:18
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bipolaralthough kontact is currently qt319:18
kkitobipolar, hmmf but kontact iis kde...19:18
bipolarkkito: kontact would require kdelib, but not the entire kde system.19:19
bipolarkkito: but it's qt3 anyway, so it would have to wait until it was ported as part of kde 4.19:19
kkitoperhaps the development snapshots compiles with qt4 :?19:20
kkitowell first we must to integrate the qt4 to the maemo, making the vkb to popup, fullscreen button, and right mouse button to run....19:22
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kkitobipolar, we have  is like kontac19:30
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bipolarkkito: I've tried that. it, uh. sucks. :\19:32
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bipolarat least on windows. havn't tried the linux version19:33
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bipolarI was actualy thinking about trying to install colinux and ubuntu just to get kontact on windows, but I'm not sure how well it would work.19:35
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hrwsomeone remember/know which PIM supports alarms on n770/800 and it2007?19:40
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mgedminon n800/it200719:41
hrwmgedmin: osso-clock sounds more like alarmclock then pim..19:41
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mgedminit supports many (optionally recurring) alarms, with a single-line description19:42
mgedminit does not work very reliably, though19:42
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mgedminyesterday it didn't ring in the morning, but instead decided to activate my 9 am alarm in the afternoon when I clicked on the globe icon in the statusbar19:42
mgedmingo figure19:42
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hrwin other words: there is such one19:44
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thomasvshi.  My n800 locked up.  I had to take out the battery.  Now it doesn't properly boot.  The boot log shows that there is a problem with an erase block on the root file system.20:05
thomasvsWhat can I use to extract the jffs2 root and analyze it on my machine ?20:05
trenkaboot from mmc ?20:06
thomasvstrenka: ok, and after that ?20:06
trenkaI guess you can use mtd subsystem for your purposes20:07
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guerbykeesj, my ISP provides SIP so I installed gizmo and used the SIP capability of gizmo20:13
guerbykeesj, I believe gizmo also provide SIP if you pay20:14
pantharIs there an equivalent to home-image-loader in os2007?  I'm looking to convert some older themes to install cleanly.20:19
pantharAnd one of the steps in the postinst calls /usr/bin/home-image-loader20:20
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guerbykeesj, my ISP provides SIP so I installed gizmo and used the SIP capability of gizmo21:04
guerbykeesj, I believe gizmo also provide SIP if you pay21:04
keesji will have to ask my provider21:05
kenderhey keesj ;-)21:08
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kenderthanks for asking in the mailing about the project :)21:08
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keesjkender it really is getting impressive. perhaps the message is not clear?21:12
kender"We kender is I have started porting an application "21:14
kenderthat's the only thing that I don't understand21:14
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keesjyes /me bad21:17
kenderbut, avoiding that (I think that the message is understandable cutting that, you can imaging what to put there) everything else is understandable21:18
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cxmachi all21:41
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lirelentanyone know how to get around the "permission denied error" when running binaries off the mmc card?22:40
koenyou mounted it with -o user?22:41
lirelenti just pluged it in22:41
lirelentbut even running it as root doesn't work22:42
lirelentand chmod 777 doesn't change the flags22:42
lirelentuntil i move it to internal flash22:42
suihkulokkithat FAT filesystem for you22:42
lirelentthen chmod 777 works22:42
lirelentand it runs just fine22:42
lirelentsuihkulokki that's what google seems to indicate22:43
lirelentso should I just try to format it as ext2?22:43
lirelentor 3 for that matter?22:43
s-ndh-clirelent: try mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc122:47
s-ndh-cthat seems to work for me22:47
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lirelentis there a way to always mount the card exec?22:48
s-ndh-ci guess editing the fstab file would be the way22:48
s-ndh-cnever tried that22:49
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lirelenti have to admit haking the n770 is world easier then the sl-550022:51
lirelentnicer device too22:51
Taktoo bad sharp never marketed the clamshell models in the us22:52
glas5clamshells would have been nice22:52
glas55500 was nice for it's time22:52
glas5coupled with the first gprs phones..22:52
lirelentwell no luck with editing the fstab22:59
lirelentthat's annoying22:59
lirelentthough the remount trick does work22:59
lirelentis there a startup script that gets run that I could add that to?22:59
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tigertman. forgot canola passwd. where does it keep it?23:11
Taktime to reflash :-P23:12
lirelenthehe @ Tak yea I've done that a few times the last few days23:13
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lsobraltigert, no need to reflash, you can remove the canola database, in ~/.canola/canola.db23:21
lsobralthe password is stored encrypted in this database23:23
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konttoriI'm having trouble with .desktop entry for a python file. For some reason the file isn't working when I run it from the extras folder. Is there a log that might help me see why that is?23:34
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konttoriwhen I run from console python, it works.  even if I run it python /usr/bin/app , it works.23:35
konttoriBut it doesn't run with /usr/bin/app . SHould it run with that comman in console?23:36
tigertok cool23:36
konttoriAny ideas?23:37
konttoriso, the desktop and service files seem to be working properly, but the app isn't opening.23:40
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konttoriare capital letters illegal for a service name?23:41
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Takdoes app begin with #!/usr/bin/python (or whatever) ?23:43
konttori#! /usr/bin/env python23:43
konttoriIf I try to run it as /usr/bin/app, I get: No such file or directory23:44
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Taktry stripping out the space between #! and /u  ?23:44
konttorimight help23:45
konttoricould be that the correct is: #!/usr/bin/env python2.523:49
Takwell, does `env python` get you anything from the shell?23:49
konttoriok, so it does not matter if its python or python2.523:50
konttorioh, do I have to import hildon or osso?23:51
konttoriis the osso context mandatory?23:51
TakI wouldn't think so if the app runs when you call python explicitly23:52
Takor are we on to a different issue?23:52
konttoriyeah, app runs from python just fine23:52
konttoriand we're still in the same issue23:52
konttoriapp isn't running from console23:53
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konttoriI still get the no such file or dir.23:59
Takhow about replacing the env line with /usr/bin/python ?23:59

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