| MDK | people, what do you actually store on those cards? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Tak|work | movies and music | 00:04 |
| MDK | hmm | 00:05 |
| RobHu | I want to try putting Monkey Island 3 on, that's 1.3GB | 00:05 |
| RobHu | also 3GB of music | 00:06 |
| MDK | I store mp3/movies elsewhere. I just temporarily put stuff on the device | 00:06 |
| MDK | like - the music I'm going to listen to today | 00:06 |
| MDK | but maybe it's just me | 00:07 |
| Tak|work | I don't like having to copy stuff off/on all the time | 00:08 |
| MDK | so you keep your stuff only on the sd? | 00:08 |
| Tak|work | no, but I keep a big chunk of stuff on the sd | 00:08 |
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| Tak|work | so I'm copying stuff once/month instead of once/day | 00:08 |
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| Tak|work | also, like RobHu mentioned, it'd be great to have room for stuff like scumm games in addition | 00:09 |
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| RobHu | I already have Monkey Island 1 and 2 >.< | 00:10 |
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| dolfun | RobHu, what are read/write speeds for you | 00:14 |
| dolfun | those games look fantastic with the hq scaling | 00:14 |
| dolfun | soo much better than orig 320x200 or 320x240 (whatever it was) | 00:15 |
| RobHu | dolfun: What options do you need to make them full screen do you know? I was just using the 2x option, so there was a black border | 00:15 |
| RobHu | dolfun: I will post those when it stops doing what it's doing atm :-) | 00:15 |
| RobHu | could be a few minutes | 00:15 |
| dolfun | not a big deal just curious | 00:17 |
| * dolfun still has the 70 | 00:17 | |
| dolfun | 770 | 00:17 |
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| dolfun | full screen.... | 00:18 |
| dolfun | i will boot | 00:18 |
| RobHu | :-) | 00:18 |
| dolfun | i sometimes use the 770 as a flashlight | 00:18 |
| timeless | it works nicely | 00:19 |
| dolfun | scummvm - options - graphics mode: advmame2x | 00:19 |
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| dolfun | x fullscreen mode x aspect ratio correction | 00:20 |
| dolfun | which reminds me, i need walkthroughs :/ | 00:21 |
| RobHu | hehe | 00:21 |
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| RobHu | dolfun: Here are my speed tests http://pastie.caboo.se/41507 | 00:29 |
| RobHu | Thats internal memory, 1gb card, 8gb card | 00:29 |
| dolfun | beats my kingston rs-mmc | 00:32 |
| dolfun | do you run with swap? | 00:32 |
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| wumpus | wow that's fast | 00:35 |
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| wumpus | how much data does it try to transfer? | 00:36 |
| RobHu | wumpus: Yeah? | 00:36 |
| RobHu | It's all in the paste :-) | 00:36 |
| RobHu | I've not done anything magic | 00:37 |
| wumpus | 80mb I see | 00:37 |
| wumpus | well the line with mtdblock4 gives similar results here | 00:37 |
| wumpus | but my mmcblk0 takes 36s | 00:37 |
| RobHu | hmm something called metalayer-crawl is using 100% cpu | 00:37 |
| wumpus | :/ | 00:37 |
| RobHu | :( | 00:37 |
| wumpus | this is weird | 00:37 |
| RobHu | wumpus: What kernel? | 00:37 |
| wumpus | Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Tue Dec 19 18:41:02 EET 2006 armv6l unknown | 00:38 |
| wumpus | nothing special I guess | 00:38 |
| RobHu | I have Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #3 Tue Feb 6 22:30:15 PST 2007 armv6l unknown | 00:38 |
| wumpus | how did you get that, it seems newer | 00:39 |
| RobHu | I got it from Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #3 Tue Feb 6 22:30:15 PST 2007 armv6l unknown | 00:39 |
| RobHu | oops | 00:39 |
| wumpus | maybe it has better support for those large modules, I recently installed a 2gb one | 00:39 |
| RobHu | I got it from http://intr.overt.org/blog/ | 00:40 |
| RobHu | That's why I got it | 00:40 |
| RobHu | It has support for sdhc | 00:40 |
| wumpus | nice | 00:41 |
| wumpus | that's probably your speed gain, I can't believe my module is *that* much slower | 00:41 |
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| RobHu | I can't believe that either | 00:43 |
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| Pio | anyone happen to use a cellink btg-7000 bluetooth gps? | 00:55 |
| RobHu | Is it normal to have some swap? free says swap=0 | 00:56 |
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| dwd | RobHu: If you want swap, you need to configure it. | 01:19 |
| dwd | RobHu: You can do it in the "memory" control panel applet. | 01:19 |
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| maddler | nice... just launched 29 apps on N800, and still responsive! :D | 01:21 |
| disq | libwpeditor is so nice btw | 01:22 |
| disq | done with the maemopad+'s rtf support. though can't release it because it doesn't work on the 770 yet :p | 01:22 |
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| disq | (guess which lib is not bundled with gregale image) | 01:22 |
| RobHu | dwd: Ah, I thought it came with swap by default... | 01:23 |
| RobHu | Does swap use a file or does it require a partition? | 01:23 |
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| dwd | robhu: It runs off a file. | 01:24 |
| RobHu | ah shiny | 01:24 |
| dwd | RobHu: The trouble is, it means that apps are unresponsive when they're paging in/out memory, and that can cause them to be killed more often, or the lifeguard to decide to reboot. | 01:24 |
| RobHu | Hmm | 01:25 |
| dwd | RobHu: So it's not always a great idea. I don't run with swap, and find it's fine. YMMV, as they say. | 01:25 |
| RobHu | Well - I've not had swap and I've been fine | 01:26 |
| RobHu | I wonder how much memory I've been using | 01:26 |
| dwd | RobHu: You'll know if you run out - apps refuse to start. (As in, the launcher refuses to launch them) | 01:26 |
| RobHu | Ah, so you don't just get the oom killer running around randomly killing things | 01:27 |
| RobHu | I've seen that happen before, and it's not fun | 01:27 |
| dwd | RobHu: Well, you *can* get that too, yes. | 01:28 |
| dwd | RobHu: I might have had a better experience with smaller amounts of swap, but I'm sure sure if Linux (on this thing) swaps preemptively, or if it swaps on need. | 01:28 |
| RobHu | ah | 01:30 |
| pbrook | linux generally swaps when it needs to. There are knobs you can tweak to control swap vs. disk cache preference. | 01:30 |
| RobHu | I need to bench write performance | 01:31 |
| RobHu | but I ran out of battery power and the charger is in the office :S | 01:31 |
| RobHu | Now why didn't they make it so it could charge via USB? | 01:31 |
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| pbrook | RobHu: I'm fairly sure you can buy third party usb-to-nokia adapters. | 01:33 |
| pbrook | Or make your own by canibalizing a couple of cables:-) | 01:33 |
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| RobHu | :-) | 01:34 |
| pbrook | The AC adapter is 5v, which is the same as usb. | 01:34 |
| RobHu | Why wouldn't they make it charge via usb /anyway/ though?! | 01:34 |
| pbrook | Well, with laptops you don't want it sucking all the power:-) | 01:34 |
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| RobHu | heh | 01:35 |
| pbrook | It might be borderline on the USB power ratings. | 01:35 |
| RobHu | Yeah... they could have it charge at a slower speed though | 01:35 |
| RobHu | It should be achievable | 01:35 |
| disq | ok released maemopad+ 0.30 check it out :p | 01:35 |
| RobHu | I guess its because it's the first revision | 01:35 |
| disq | though it'll probably take a while to update the repo | 01:36 |
| RobHu | Ah, you're the maemopad guy... | 01:36 |
| RobHu | I've not installed it yet, but it looks interesting | 01:36 |
| disq | hi. :) | 01:36 |
| RobHu | I'm sure I saw some screenshots somewhere? | 01:36 |
| disq | there's a screenshots section in the garage page though they're kinda outdated now | 01:37 |
| RobHu | There is no Java implementation for the N800, is that right? | 01:37 |
| disq | some (independent) people are working on it, but no not currently | 01:37 |
| RobHu | mmm | 01:38 |
| RobHu | So it's not as easy as just recompiling one of the existing ones :S | 01:38 |
| RobHu | I heard there was a mono port though. Does anyone know if there is a Ruby port around? | 01:38 |
| disq | not sure, did you check the maemo.org wiki | 01:39 |
| RobHu | oops no | 01:40 |
| RobHu | Will do now | 01:40 |
| RobHu | The wiki always seems quite out of date | 01:40 |
| RobHu | ah - looks like the ruby implementation works :D | 01:41 |
| jtra | RobHu: ruby is available | 01:41 |
| jtra | Nokia770-39:~# irb | 01:41 |
| jtra | irb(main):001:0> | 01:41 |
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| jtra | but problem is with bindings for gtk and hildon | 01:42 |
| RobHu | jtra: >:D | 01:42 |
| RobHu | Is the N800 fast enough to run a SNES emulator? | 01:42 |
| jtra | I compiled ruby-gnome2 package (gtk parts of it), some things worked, some did not | 01:43 |
| RobHu | hmm | 01:43 |
| jtra | I decided to use python for my games then | 01:43 |
| jtra | python is well supported and generally works | 01:44 |
| RobHu | but but I like Ruby ! | 01:44 |
| RobHu | :-) | 01:44 |
| RobHu | I'll probably never write anything | 01:44 |
| RobHu | I have too much to do at work | 01:44 |
| jtra | I like ruby too | 01:45 |
| jtra | I used python back in 2000 but I did not like it then, and when I discovered ruby I never looked back :) | 01:46 |
| jtra | but for the games I decided to use python due to support and because I wanted to learn what is new in python since 1.5 | 01:48 |
| RobHu | I haven't used Python much | 01:48 |
| RobHu | How would you compare them? | 01:48 |
| jtra | the result is two games, new python knowledge and I still like ruby more :) | 01:49 |
| jtra | ruby is more consistent in object approach | 01:50 |
| RobHu | Someone I know who has used both said he thought Ruby was quite clean/pure while Python felt like a lot of hacks | 01:51 |
| RobHu | Do you think that is true? | 01:51 |
| jtra | python has a lot of functionality available in functions which are not tied to specific objects like 'len', 'str', value conversions and more | 01:51 |
| jtra | in some sense yes | 01:52 |
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| RobHu | Thanks. That's interesting. | 01:53 |
| jtra | RobHu: you may find this usefull: http://rgruet.free.fr/PQR25/PQR2.5.html | 01:54 |
| RobHu | jtra: Thanks | 01:55 |
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| RobHu | I'm going to watch a film now. Thanks for chatting. | 01:56 |
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| kkito | RobHu, yes it has enough power for a snes emulator, the problem is that a snes emulator is really a hard task, and the opensource emulators out there, are purely written in i386 asm | 02:14 |
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| disq | gah. i made an install file, but since the app manager can allow dupe repositories to be added, it causes an error if you already have the repo configured | 02:27 |
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| gnuite | Did anyone here upload sqlite3 to the mistral and/or scirocco repositories? | 03:15 |
| gnuite | Because, I'd appreciate it if you could upload the packages to gregale, as well. I've tried without success, so I think I must be doing something wrong... | 03:17 |
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| disq | gnuite: afaik there's no gregale repo | 03:21 |
| disq | is there? | 03:21 |
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| disq | gnuite: btw, if you're ever to develop some sqlite3-heavy stuff for maemomapper, try "PRAGMA synchronous = OFF;" updates are about a zillion times faster that way | 03:24 |
| disq | ok looks like there's a gregale repo but nothing much there: only flite, mmapper, and proj | 03:25 |
| disq | and imho there should be only two repos, one for 2.x and one for 3.x | 03:27 |
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| disq | anyway i'm off to bed, night. | 03:46 |
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| rhsanborn | I can't get my desktop app to add the contact for the video chat client. Anyone know of an alternative | 05:59 |
| rhsanborn | ? | 05:59 |
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| Markov | is there a way to synch playlists with the n800 over bluetooth? | 06:00 |
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| Markov | :/ | 06:28 |
| Markov | ? | 06:28 |
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| Markov | woah.... | 08:22 |
| Markov | hello? | 08:22 |
| Markov | am i in this channel ? | 08:22 |
| everaldo | Markov, Yes, you are :) | 08:22 |
| Markov | :) thanks! | 08:23 |
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| bmidgley_ | argh my n800 can't play the dvds I ripped for my 770 | 08:33 |
| bmidgley_ | it tries to and gets stuck... | 08:33 |
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| tigert | morng | 09:27 |
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| kaatis | does anyone know if it is possible to upload new gpg keys to garage? i've seem to lost my keys | 09:49 |
| disq | morning | 09:51 |
| disq | kaatis, sending a mail to ferenc usualy helps :) | 09:51 |
| kaatis | disq, ok i'll try that approach :) | 09:52 |
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| timeless | kaatis: how can we trust that you're you? :) | 10:35 |
| disq | /whois? :p | 10:35 |
| timeless | somehow i doubt garage registration includes nickserv on freenode. and i don't know what prevents an account from expiring and being stolen :) | 10:37 |
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| tigert | you are just making things hard!!! | 10:39 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:40 |
| disq | morning | 10:40 |
| disq | (xchat so nice. me likes) | 10:41 |
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| zbenjamin | morning @ all | 10:41 |
| disq | last night i packaged nokia's wpeditor for it2006 and signed/uploaded it. hope my apartment doesn't get raided by the nokia swat team (there's an image) | 10:43 |
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| inz | disq, the nokia OSSO swat team will come and throw their ballpoint pens from their shirt pocket at you | 10:52 |
| sp3000 | pens? what are those | 10:54 |
| zbenjamin | morning inz | 10:55 |
| inz | mrg | 10:55 |
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| keesj | hi | 10:59 |
| disq | ballpoint pens? i should immediately pack my gadgets and flee | 11:02 |
| KevinVerma | could there be a maemo (770/n800) section on freshmeat.net ? | 11:03 |
| kaatis | timeless, you can't! but how could the garage registration page trust that it's me? | 11:03 |
| Guardian | morning maemo | 11:03 |
| Guardian | doh i thought i could just install the sapwood engine on my pc and toy with a gtk application, but it requires sapwood server | 11:04 |
| disq | and that's.. not open? | 11:04 |
| kaatis | for extra paranoid, it could only accept pgp keys from people who are in the chain of trust | 11:04 |
| keesj | kaatis: A real paranoid, compiles from source | 11:05 |
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| inz | Guardian, the server is in the same package as the theme engine | 11:07 |
| Guardian | disq: no, deploying sapwood.so would have been ok, but the fact that it needs another daemon is not :) | 11:07 |
| disq | you should see maemo-blog's dependencies then :p | 11:08 |
| disq | oh, hi inz. | 11:08 |
| inz | disq, st*u ;) | 11:08 |
| Guardian | sure i can make it working if i want, i just expected to be standalone | 11:08 |
| Guardian | i wanted to use it because i want to have shaped windows | 11:08 |
| Guardian | configured from the rc file | 11:08 |
| inz | disq, I know they're nasty, that's why I wanted to port libsoup to openssl | 11:09 |
| Guardian | which is not possible with the pixmap engine because otaylor decided it's a no no :) | 11:09 |
| inz | disq, but I think that would be problematic licensewise | 11:09 |
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| zuh | Guardian: he probably decided it back when the shape extension was broken in every other x server... I mean, has anyone really developed the pixmap engine in years? | 11:13 |
| Guardian | zuh: you may be true, he decided that in 2002 :) | 11:13 |
| Guardian | (from the changelog) | 11:13 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:26 |
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| florian | good morning | 11:40 |
| handful__ | morning | 11:43 |
| tigert | sapwood also currently requires 16bpp afaik | 11:43 |
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| Guardian | thx tigert, good to know | 11:44 |
| Guardian | too bad there is no way to get back the background pixmap filename from a GtkWidget instance | 11:44 |
| Guardian | i could have loaded the mask myself | 11:44 |
| zuh | You can get the pixmap though, it's in the widget->style structure | 11:47 |
| sp3000 | 554.1M Feb 20 10:30 mplayer-11-1770.core | 11:47 |
| tigert | Guardian: but | 11:47 |
| sp3000 | whoops | 11:47 |
| tigert | Guardian: there is interest in making it work on 32bit too | 11:47 |
| tigert | sp3000: :) | 11:48 |
| Guardian | zuh: sure but a GdkPixmap does not carry transparency information | 11:48 |
| zuh | That's true | 11:48 |
| Guardian | anyway, i need it for the main GtkWindow | 11:49 |
| Guardian | so i'm not sure it could be done through gtkrc | 11:49 |
| Guardian | even with a customized theme engine | 11:49 |
| Guardian | ah yes it would work, gtk_widget_shape_combine_mask() , i thought there was only a gdk_window_shape_combine_mask | 11:51 |
| Guardian | anyway i'll do it differently :) | 11:51 |
| zuh | Why wouldn't gdk_window* work?-) | 11:51 |
| Guardian | what i wanted to say is that i did not know there was a gtk_widget_shape_combine_mask | 11:52 |
| Guardian | i thought it was only possible on a gdk_window, and some widgets don't have their own window | 11:52 |
| Guardian | anyway, using the pixbuf/pixmap engine, i'm able to have round buttons with the help of png files with an alpha layer: the paint_box/draw_box rendering code seem to respect the alpha layer | 11:53 |
| Guardian | but if i asisgn a background png to the top level window through gtkrc, then it's not shaped | 11:53 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm I have gotten myself in a situation where I have 2 popup window over each other that are both modal. And apparently the one with the highest priority is the one underneath the other :) | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | So I can't click on anything.. | 12:39 |
| inz | X-Fade, can you use esc key? | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | inz: Ah, yeah.. that worked :) Great.. | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | I made screenshots and will file a bug on that ;) | 12:41 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: I've seen that before in a couple of places, IIRC | 12:47 |
| maddler | re | 12:51 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, I filed https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1085. | 12:53 |
| keesj | Jaffa: can you look at the mud bugtracker and patches? I would like you to accept or reject a few patches. just So I will know what is acceptable | 12:53 |
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| inz | X-Fade, there's some focus fixes in matcbhox 1.1-osso14, but only refers to the internal 'zilla | 12:55 |
| X-Fade | inz: System modal windows should just have a [x] to close them? :) | 12:56 |
| X-Fade | It makes no sense that you can close them with esc and not the stylus? | 12:56 |
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| X-Fade | The 'semi hide' by clicking on the titlebar, certainly doesn't help ;) You can see your problem, but you can't reach it.. | 12:57 |
| X-Fade | That only frustrates the user more. | 12:57 |
| Jaffa | keesj: I had a look to see why you can't do anything, but it seems like you should be able to. | 12:58 |
| keesj | Jaffa So you think that I am not functioning correctly :p | 12:59 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: No, I'm entirely happy blaming the bug tracker ;) | 13:00 |
| Guardian | huhu interresting, GDK_IS_DRAWABLE(pixmap) reports true but gdk_drawable_get_size(pixmap,&width,&height) claims pixmap is not a gdk drawable :) | 13:00 |
| Guardian | love this toolkit | 13:00 |
| keesj | Guardian: perhaps you need to cast here | 13:00 |
| florian | hey elephantum | 13:01 |
| Guardian | well i call it using GDK_DRAWABLE(pixmap) | 13:01 |
| elephantum | florian: hi )) | 13:01 |
| elephantum | hi, all | 13:01 |
| keesj | something like gdk_drawable_get_size(GDK_IS_OBJECT_ORIENTED_DRAWABLE(pixmap),width,&height) | 13:01 |
| florian | elephantum: i haven't seen you for quite some time... how are you? | 13:01 |
| Guardian | IS_OBJECT_ORIENTED_DRAWABLE ? :) looks like PLEASE_MAKE_IT_WORK_FOR_ONCE :D | 13:03 |
| elephantum | florian: yeah, I've lost connectivity with OS for some time, but now my work is about linux, and now I have n800 and I'm back ) | 13:03 |
| inz | _PRETTY_PLEASE | 13:03 |
| florian | elephantum: wee cool! | 13:03 |
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| keesj | Guardian: probabely more something like G_OBJECT or G_DRAWABLE:p | 13:04 |
| Guardian | ok found | 13:06 |
| Guardian | needed to call gtk_widget_realize | 13:06 |
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| kkito | hellp | 13:08 |
| kkito | hello :) | 13:08 |
| Jaffa | keesj: I've updated your privilege, so if you could see if #359 is still valid, thanks. | 13:10 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: yes it looks better now | 13:11 |
| Jaffa | keesj: cool | 13:12 |
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| keesj | I also wonder why I did not get an email for the vsftpd patch? | 13:14 |
| keesj | I am monitoring the tracker | 13:14 |
| Jaffa | keesj: Subscribe to mud-builder-team? | 13:16 |
| keesj | done thanks | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | Worth making any change to tracker items email mud-builder-team? | 13:19 |
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| bepp | Hi, I have problem to set a passwd in the new canola config. Does anyone have the same problem? After setting a password it takes me back to setting one once again. :( | 13:25 |
| osfameron | I couldn't open canola config without connecting to an access point | 13:26 |
| osfameron | which I thought was a bit sucky, as it was running on localhost | 13:26 |
| Jaffa | I thought it installed a new dummy connection called "Localhsot". | 13:27 |
| bepp | I have test it also during a connection no success | 13:27 |
| bepp | My new URL is 127.0.0.1:9000 | 13:28 |
| osfameron | didn't install the dummy connection on mine | 13:28 |
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| bepp | osfameron: What do you mean with dummy connection? | 13:30 |
| osfameron | 11:29 < Jaffa> I thought it installed a new dummy connection called "Localhsot". | 13:31 |
| osfameron | I had to connect via my mobile phone to get the web browser to open the canola service on 127.0.0.1 | 13:31 |
| osfameron | which was a bit sucky | 13:31 |
| kkito | localhost os not installed, it is on all linux | 13:32 |
| kkito | osfameron, ?? you mustn to connect via your phone ??? 127.0.0.1 is only for the localhost, you cannot access it remotly with other devices using this ip | 13:34 |
| osfameron | kkito: yes I know | 13:34 |
| osfameron | kkito: the point is, I tried to connect to Canola on localhost | 13:34 |
| osfameron | and the web app helpfully refused to connect to it | 13:34 |
| osfameron | and popped up the "choose an internet connection" dialog | 13:34 |
| osfameron | I tried cancelling, and it didn't open canola config | 13:35 |
| osfameron | when I eventually gave up and said "ok, connect to the internet, for a laugh, see what happens", THEN it opened canola config | 13:35 |
| bepp | OK but after successfull connect to canola config I am not able to set a Password. | 13:35 |
| kkito | osfameron, ahh i see... it seems an opera problem | 13:35 |
| osfameron | kkito: guess so | 13:36 |
| osfameron | or possibly OS - presumably something realises that a connection is being made and pops up the system dialog | 13:36 |
| osfameron | that should be overridden given that the url is local | 13:36 |
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| kkito | osfameron, oh it seems that the bug was opened in 2005 for the 770, but it is still there.... https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=339 | 13:48 |
| kkito | too bad! | 13:48 |
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| osfameron | kkito: ah, thanks for the ref | 13:49 |
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| kkito | only 321 bugs fixed in more than 2 years of development?! And we want IVA and powerVR support ?! lol... | 13:54 |
| lardman | kkito: You should say please ;) | 13:55 |
| elephantum | so, to the question. I've installed bora sdk and want to develop python-hildon application, though there are no python2.5 or python-hildon packages in predefined repositories, where can I get them without messing my sdk? | 13:55 |
| elephantum | found that =) thanks everyone ) | 14:01 |
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| zuh | kkito: I think that any app that needs the user to connect to localhost with a browser for configuration is the problem, not the browser ;) | 14:06 |
| kkito | zuh, the problem is the browser, i think, because i can use other network apps with the localhost without connection | 14:11 |
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| plaes | zuh is right... | 14:12 |
| zuh | kkito: Oh yes, naturally it's a bug in the browser too. :) | 14:14 |
| tigert | hmm | 14:14 |
| tigert | canola crashes on podcasts | 14:14 |
| tigert | the frontend crashes when one tries to play one | 14:14 |
| tigert | and the backend crashes when I try to add one in the library in the canola config tooö | 14:14 |
| tigert | tool | 14:14 |
| kkito | tigert, what podcast are you trying to add ? | 14:15 |
| plaes | fun for whole family... | 14:15 |
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| tigert | kkito: daily sourcecode | 14:17 |
| tigert | kkito: the problem is | 14:17 |
| tigert | kkito: there is this one thing open source podcasting apps rarely get right | 14:17 |
| tigert | kkito: I am adding "http://www.dailysourcecode.com" | 14:17 |
| tigert | which is not a rss feed of course | 14:17 |
| tigert | but there is a metatag in the page | 14:17 |
| tigert | so it _could_ fetch it from there | 14:17 |
| tigert | but the backend seems to crash on this | 14:18 |
| tigert | I can add it OK if I add the XML url directly | 14:18 |
| zuh | Is that open source? | 14:18 |
| tigert | but it could work | 14:18 |
| tigert | zuh: :) not | 14:18 |
| zuh | Fortunately, otherwise it would "rarely get it right" :P | 14:18 |
| kkito | tigert, but the podcast must to be a rss or opml file | 14:22 |
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| zuh | kkito: But if the given url hints to a rss feed, the app can magically do the right thing and use that | 14:28 |
| kkito | yes it will be a cool feature, you can add this to the canola garage page to a feature request (or bug), and perhaps the developers add this in future releases | 14:31 |
| kkito | anyways, i added http://www.podshow.com/feeds/dailysourcecode.xml to canola and it runs ok | 14:32 |
| tigert | kkito: yes, it should look into the metatags | 14:34 |
| tigert | and find the rss or opml link | 14:34 |
| tigert | its silly for users to dig it up when it's totally there | 14:34 |
| tigert | but yeah, will add | 14:34 |
| tigert | kkito: does it play? | 14:35 |
| tigert | canola crashes when I try to play it | 14:35 |
| kkito | tigert, for me yes | 14:35 |
| tigert | hmm | 14:35 |
| kkito | are ou using it on a n800 ? | 14:35 |
| tigert | yes | 14:35 |
| kkito | me too :/ | 14:35 |
| tigert | it dies the moment I hit "play" on the episode | 14:35 |
| timeless | tigert you saw my "bug" "reports", right? :) | 14:35 |
| tigert | timeless: no? | 14:35 |
| kkito | tigert, are you using the latest release? | 14:36 |
| tigert | got it from the page today | 14:39 |
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| Jaffa | The VNCviewer -> local Debian hack is very cool | 14:42 |
| kkito | I have no problems with canola and podcasts, but some people seems that they have problems playing some podcasts :? | 14:43 |
| kkito | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=421&group_id=125&atid=529 <-- i dont experience that bug too... | 14:43 |
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| keesj | the VNC hack is nice , I wanted to to the same with "just" xnest | 14:47 |
| keesj | but I did not think about the keyboard :p | 14:48 |
| elephantum | huh, gtk on maemo doesn't use cairo? | 14:50 |
| tigert | kkito: yea, internal image here too | 14:50 |
| tigert | hmm | 14:50 |
| tigert | time to reflash to product version I guess | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Canola works fine with podcasts for me on product version.. | 14:52 |
| X-Fade | I listen to Adam Curry just about every day.. | 14:52 |
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| tigert | he's pretty cool | 15:02 |
| * tigert downgrades his device, damnit | 15:03 | |
| sxpert_work | tigert: upgrade broke things ? | 15:03 |
| tigert | looks like that | 15:05 |
| tigert | dunno why | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | tigert: And he loves his N800 ;) Talks about it for about 3 weeks every day now.. | 15:05 |
| tigert | X-Fade: I noticed :) | 15:05 |
| tigert | X-Fade: he replied to my blog ;) | 15:05 |
| tigert | about the geoclue thing | 15:06 |
| X-Fade | ah.. | 15:06 |
| tigert | we need to start using geo-location stuff in apps | 15:06 |
| tigert | jobi: around? | 15:08 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Yep that is kinda sweet. | 15:08 |
| tigert | duh, soon 5 days idle | 15:08 |
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| kkito | tigert, what new features has the image that are you using now? | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | kkito: Improved flash video support ;) | 15:13 |
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| kkito | :) | 15:13 |
| sxpert_work | dream on you 2 | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | No.. it is.. | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | Ari already demonstrated it to Thoughtfix. | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | The slideshow feature has been removed ;) | 15:14 |
| kkito | and normal video play is improved too? | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | kkito: Don't know about that. I don't have those images. It is just what I gather from the web. | 15:15 |
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| inz | elephantum, if you live on the bleeding edge and use sardine(-experimental), it does | 15:35 |
| elephantum | inz: I think I'm not ready yet for this ) | 15:36 |
| elephantum | another question: I'm trying to install python2.5-runtime on my n800, and get unresolved dependencies (libglade2-0, libsdl-ttf2.0-0, ...) does default install miss some repositories? | 15:38 |
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| tigert | kkito: bugfixes I guess | 15:57 |
| tigert | and new bugs apparently :) | 15:58 |
| dwd | elephantum: Yes, but I forget which ones. | 15:58 |
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| dwd | elephantum: They've been mentioned on the list before. If you hang on a sec, I'll look at my sources.list and tell you. | 15:59 |
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| elephantum | dwd: that would be great | 16:00 |
| dwd | I have both http://repository.maemo.org/ and http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ is that helps. (Both as bora free non-free) | 16:01 |
| dwd | I think those are the two that are needed. | 16:01 |
| elephantum | dwd: yeah, default install misses repository.maemo.org, thanks it worked | 16:03 |
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| Schmots | Hello | 16:05 |
| tigert | heh, scantool.net features N800 + Carman already | 16:06 |
| tigert | http://www.scantool.net/?mode=displayArticle&news_id=73 | 16:06 |
| Schmots | Anyone here doing the dual boot? | 16:08 |
| Schmots | on an n800? | 16:08 |
| Schmots | I am still trying to find out if anyone can access the first parition via usb when booted off the second parititon on an mmc/sd | 16:09 |
| tigert | kkito: ping? | 16:14 |
| tigert | kkito: whats the point of the canola photocast showing only thumbnails? | 16:15 |
| bergie | tigert: it shows thumbnails for some pictures and full pics for some | 16:16 |
| bergie | no idea why... maybe setting by the person who uploaded the pic | 16:16 |
| tigert | ah ok | 16:16 |
| tigert | hmm | 16:16 |
| bergie | in any case, I can now use N800 as a digital photo frame that automatically displays latest photos from my Flickr contacts as a slideshow :-) | 16:16 |
| bergie | Canola rocks... too bad it isn't open | 16:17 |
| tigert | does it blank the screen when on charger? | 16:17 |
| tigert | and does tapping on a photo take you to the flickr page? | 16:17 |
| bergie | tigert: nope (for taking you to flickr) | 16:18 |
| bergie | no idea about screen blanking yet, have to try when I get home | 16:18 |
| ab | behdad: unfortunately it doesn't support slideshow from a local source | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | tigert: It doesn't blank when on charger. | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | At least, not while playing a podcast. | 16:20 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm new DSC btw ;) | 16:21 |
| bergie | sometimes the slideshow seems to think quite a long time | 16:21 |
| tigert | cool | 16:21 |
| tigert | bergie: start listening to curry | 16:21 |
| tigert | its interesting | 16:21 |
| bergie | how well does the podcast feature work? does it autorefresh/fetch and how often? | 16:21 |
| tigert | and we should hook him up to the geo-python stuff | 16:21 |
| tigert | he is learning python to do things on the N800 | 16:22 |
| tigert | the podcast thing does not do background downloading of episodes :-( | 16:22 |
| tigert | which sucks | 16:22 |
| tigert | it would rock if it would fetch stuff behind scenes and just mark new podcasts with a dot | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | tigert: There is a feature request for that already :) | 16:22 |
| tigert | and keep track what I have listened to | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | They are working on that.. | 16:22 |
| tigert | cool | 16:22 |
| tigert | because then I wouldnt need to run 3G all my work commute on the car just to listen to that curry dude :) | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | http://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=532&aid=229&group_id=125 | 16:23 |
| * koen still wishes canola was opensource | 16:23 | |
| * tigert does too | 16:24 | |
| X-Fade | koen: Yeah, that would be sweet. | 16:24 |
| mgedmin | what's the stated reason for making it $0 but not open source? | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | I think that would be the most active project on garage if they opensourced it. | 16:24 |
| ||cw | hm, wonder if linux would be hard to run on this http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/19/sharps-em-one-a-dual-sliding-pocketpc-with-HSDPA-and-WiFi/ | 16:25 |
| ||cw | definatly a target for Nokia though | 16:26 |
| ||cw | especially the nvidia graphics | 16:26 |
| bergie | so currently Canola only "streams" the podcast MP3s? no offline listening? | 16:26 |
| tigert | 13mm thick | 16:26 |
| tigert | ew | 16:26 |
| tigert | bergie: afaik yes | 16:26 |
| tigert | which sucks :( | 16:26 |
| tigert | well | 16:26 |
| bergie | gpodder is better then | 16:27 |
| ||cw | tigert: includeing the qwerty kb, yes | 16:27 |
| tigert | it is nice of course that it does even that | 16:27 |
| tigert | but | 16:27 |
| tigert | it would be good | 16:27 |
| tigert | ||cw: would be too thick for a pocket :( | 16:27 |
| tigert | no wait | 16:27 |
| tigert | it looks a LOT thicker on the photo | 16:27 |
| tigert | N800 is around that thickness I think too | 16:27 |
| tigert | the photo looks a lot thicker, or is this device a lot smaller than the N800 on other dimensions? | 16:28 |
| tigert | the proportion looks weird | 16:28 |
| ||cw | 18.9mm vs n800's 12.7 | 16:28 |
| tigert | no wait | 16:28 |
| tigert | I looked at a wrong size in the text :) | 16:28 |
| tigert | yeah :D | 16:28 |
| ||cw | and it is smaller in the other 2 dimisions | 16:28 |
| tigert | but yea, thick as a brick :( | 16:29 |
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| tigert | but yea, would be interesting to play with for sure | 16:36 |
| tigert | pretty sweet to for example run maemo on it? :) | 16:36 |
| lardman | Talking about Canola, I like the look of the Apple iPhone album art scrolling/interface (they scroll past and flip up as they move into the centre of the screen), but I wonder how useful it would be in real life | 16:37 |
| ||cw | should be fast enough to run native res full frame rate video too | 16:37 |
| Jaffa | lardman: quite handy for knowing when you're approaching the right point in the list as you know to stop scrolling. It's quite a handy visual clue. And very pretty. | 16:38 |
| koen | I liked the old standalone coverflow better | 16:38 |
| koen | that had a fullscreen option | 16:39 |
| koen | (coverflow was merged into itunes) | 16:39 |
| lardman | Jaffa: I guess that's how I search for music at home in CD format - look for the right colour/pattern | 16:39 |
| ||cw | visual clues are good, it's sad more apps don't do it, it's not a new concept | 16:39 |
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| ||cw | back in '96 I was doing data entry where a scanning system would break the paper forms up so that each field was a seperate image, the data entry people would have the images scroll top to bottom on the screen, 4-6 on the screen depending on screen size, and the middle one would be the one you type | 16:41 |
| lardman | Looks nice that Sharp thingie, good to have a keyboard (I miss than from the Zaurus/Psions, etc.) | 16:41 |
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| ||cw | I could definatly go faster the more images ahead I could see, and i didn't have a problem with accuracy (they pulled people aside if they did) | 16:42 |
| ||cw | there was also a way to go back incase you noticed you messed one up, which is why the entry was in the middle | 16:42 |
| * lardman wonders why BT keyboards are so expensive in the UK | 16:43 | |
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| tigert | one could render the coverflow in a mpeg video :) | 16:54 |
| tigert | in, say, canola | 16:54 |
| tigert | when adding new albums | 16:55 |
| tigert | and then just seek back and forth | 16:55 |
| dwd | Oh, wlan driver source. | 16:55 |
| tigert | :) | 16:55 |
| tigert | aww | 16:55 |
| tigert | canola config is not being backed up :( | 16:56 |
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| Toma- | is there an applet that lets you put notes on it for OS2006? | 16:56 |
| dwd | Toma-: Other than Notes itself? | 16:58 |
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| Toma- | yeh, like a little box, much like the streamer and clock that lets me fire off something quick | 16:58 |
| dwd | Toma-: Ah, you want a home applet that does notes. | 16:59 |
| Toma- | indeedy | 16:59 |
| tigert | I wonder if you put a file:// url to a Notes file, if browser launches Notes to that? :) | 16:59 |
| Toma- | im looking at GPE pim right now... | 16:59 |
| tigert | Toma-: add Notes to Favorites in the menu, so its not under Utilities but on toplevel? | 17:00 |
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| Toma- | but ill forget about it :( with a quick note thing, its also like a todo list | 17:00 |
| Toma- | ive got a shockin memory | 17:00 |
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| Jaffa | Blimey: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=12 - WLAN driver, open source | 17:03 |
| koen | Jaffa: including n800 support? | 17:03 |
| dwd | koen: Only N800 support. | 17:03 |
| Veggen | does it work? | 17:05 |
| Veggen | And does the chip support access point mode? ;) | 17:05 |
| * Jaffa dunnos. Now, who was talking about IV custom packets for WEP bypass? | 17:05 | |
| Veggen | The N800 would make an excellent ad-hoc server.. ;-) | 17:05 |
| dwd | Veggen: I was curious about AP master mode, too. | 17:06 |
| Veggen | (not ad-hoc, I meant temporary. ad-hoc was a bad choice of works here) | 17:06 |
| Veggen | dwd: mm. | 17:06 |
| tigert | I want a webcam app | 17:06 |
| tigert | that does http streaming with a simple python webserver | 17:06 |
| tigert | and some text overlay | 17:07 |
| tigert | wouldnt be hard to do | 17:07 |
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| tigert | I can do the ui design if someone is intereted in hacking :) | 17:07 |
| tigert | should be easy with gstreamer | 17:07 |
| nomis | tigert: would you design some stones for a game? :) | 17:07 |
| tigert | nomis: yes, could photo some :) | 17:07 |
| nomis | hmm, might be hard to find six shapes in six colors each... | 17:08 |
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| mgedmin | nomis: have you seen my patch yet? https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=306&group_id=167&atid=700 | 17:11 |
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| nomis | mgedmin: oops. garage apparently did not send me mails about that. | 17:14 |
| lardman | It's possible to get a plain X11 app to show up on the "taskbar" now isn't it? I can't seem to find any instructions, etc., in the wiki | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | lardman: you need to specify the window class in the .desktop file | 17:18 |
| mgedmin | check the tutorial | 17:18 |
| lardman | mgedmin: Ah, okay, I knew it was somewhere. Thanks | 17:18 |
| nomis | mgedmin: looks basically good. I'll probably tweak some odds and ends, but basically this should work. | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | sometimes I wonder why matchbox (or whatever is responsible for that bit) doesn't show all top-level windows there | 17:21 |
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| lardman | mgedmin: There's not all that much space is there though | 17:24 |
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| Toma- | are those "solid.gold.code" themes meant to be a trick or something? i cant download past 75% ... | 17:28 |
| timeless | hello world | 17:31 |
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| timeless | if you had to explain what "maemo" is, perhaps because you were forced to write an acronym table and someone wanted you to list maemo in it | 17:32 |
| timeless | what would you write for "maemo"? | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | worked for me | 17:32 |
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| lardman | timeless: Look at the page title on http://maemo.org/ ? ;) | 17:33 |
| timeless | Maemo is the application development platform for Nokia Internet Tablet products (p1 of 9) | 17:33 |
| Tak | or the topic here | 17:34 |
| timeless | i don't think that's a useful explanation | 17:34 |
| Tak | is 1.0.24 the latest version of osso-wlan for IT2006? | 17:34 |
| nomis | timeless: what is wrong with it? | 17:34 |
| timeless | in fact, i think it's less than useless | 17:34 |
| timeless | nomis: it doesn't say anything | 17:34 |
| timeless | imagine you're writing a document to describe an application you're writing for the 770 | 17:35 |
| nomis | timeless: it describes maemo as "application development platform", which is pretty accurate AFAIK. | 17:35 |
| timeless | and all over the document it says nokia, 770, internet tablet | 17:35 |
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| timeless | would you really write "maemo is 'application development platform'"? | 17:35 |
| Jaffa | timeless: don't forget "application", "development", "Internet"... | 17:35 |
| osfameron | it's not just the dev platform is it? it's the platform that users ultimately, er, use | 17:36 |
| timeless | jaffa: this table includes "API" "Application Programming Interface" | 17:36 |
| nomis | timeless: platform as in "collection of lots of specific libraries". | 17:36 |
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| timeless | osfameron: another very important point | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | timeless: it depends on your audience, I wouldn't say that to my Mum, but I'd expect a technical person to understand "application development platform" and "Nokia Internet Tablets" is clearly a product category. | 17:36 |
| Toma- | is a 30mb PDF going to kill my lil 770? | 17:36 |
| timeless | this table also includes "ARM" "Advanced RISC Machine" | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Maemo is the open source base of the Nokia 770 and N800 Internet Tablets | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | timeless: And "RISC" "Reduced Instruction Set Computing", presumably. | 17:37 |
| lardman | But ARM is a trademark isn't it? | 17:37 |
| pbrook | I'm not sure that ARM actually is an acronym any mode. | 17:37 |
| timeless | don't ask me why, but RISC isn't in the table | 17:38 |
| timeless | i think that's a bug :) | 17:38 |
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| timeless | the table also has "N/A" "Not applicable" | 17:38 |
| Tak | nice | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | timeless: anyway, I refer you back to my definition then, "Maemo is the open source base of the Nokia 770 and N800 Internet Tablets" | 17:38 |
| timeless | some of them were better, like "MIME" "Multipurpose Internet Mail Extentions" | 17:38 |
| * timeless waits for someone to figure out why that's better | 17:39 | |
| Jaffa | Including the spelling mistake? | 17:39 |
| timeless | yes! | 17:39 |
| timeless | 3points for jaffa | 17:39 |
| Jaffa | And lack of hyphenation in "Multi-purpose" | 17:39 |
| rhsanborn | I'm looking at getting a stowaway keyboard. Anyone experience problems w/ keyboard and a bluetooth mouse @ same time? | 17:39 |
| Tak | I think the hyphenation is optional | 17:39 |
| lardman | Ah, ARM used to stand for Acorn RISC Machine according to wikipedia | 17:39 |
| Tak | at least in the US | 17:39 |
| dwd | timeless: I'm not sure most people in the industry would recognise "multipurpose internet mail extensions" as being MIME, actually. | 17:39 |
| pbrook | lardman: It's changed its name at least once. | 17:39 |
| timeless | dwd: i'm sure they wouldn't | 17:39 |
| timeless | i still question having N/A in the table | 17:40 |
| dwd | timeless: Quite a few of those acronyms were made up to fit the nice word, anyway. | 17:40 |
| * timeless ponders | 17:41 | |
| timeless | so hrm | 17:41 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Indeed. Hence the heavy basis of it in 6502-lore. | 17:41 |
| timeless | i'm really confused | 17:41 |
| * timeless removes USB from the table | 17:41 | |
| rhsanborn | Also. I'm having trouble w/ nokia's desktop version of the vid chat client. Anyone here know of a nice alternative for vid calls w/ the n800? | 17:41 |
| timeless | oh, the table also has "R&D" | 17:41 |
| timeless | oh well | 17:42 |
| timeless | so, you're telling me that maemo is some sort of open source base for the platform | 17:42 |
| timeless | which means that if i choose to build on the 770 itself, and not specifically the open source base | 17:42 |
| timeless | i'm not actually building on maemo | 17:42 |
| timeless | which means it isn't what i want | 17:42 |
| timeless | so, what's something that means the platform? | 17:43 |
| timeless | OS 2006? | 17:43 |
| Jaffa | timeless: eh? if Maemo's the base of the 770, and you build on the 770, then you're building on Maemo. | 17:44 |
| timeless | but you said open source base | 17:45 |
| * timeless sighs | 17:45 | |
| lardman | Ah, but you can flash a GPE image, which uses a few low level components, but could do away with those given some effort | 17:45 |
| Jaffa | Yes, so Maemo = open source base. + some closed source stuff = OS 2006. Therefore everything on OS 2006 is running on Maemo. | 17:45 |
| shackan | meh, so much arguing over mere definitions | 17:45 |
| shackan | timeless, are you a lawyer by any chance? :) | 17:45 |
| timeless | shackan: i'm writing a very stupid document | 17:45 |
| Jaffa | timeless: then why worry? | 17:46 |
| timeless | i might as well get the stupid document right | 17:46 |
| timeless | otherwise, why bother writing it? | 17:46 |
| Jaffa | I don't understand your problem with what I'm suggesting. | 17:46 |
| dwd | timeless: I think you should define everything as "a waft of silence and beauty", and look blankly at anyone who claims not to understand. | 17:46 |
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| rhsanborn | I think dwd has the best soln yet | 17:46 |
| timeless | i like it, i just don't think it'll work | 17:47 |
| dwd | timeless: Okay, what about "See http://www.maemo.org/" | 17:47 |
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| timeless | is the following "wrong": | 17:49 |
| timeless | Maemohttp://www.maemo.org/WebOpen Source Application platform partly developed by OSSO | 17:49 |
| timeless | hrm, some whitespace got lost | 17:49 |
| * timeless wonders if that P should be capitalized | 17:49 | |
| rhsanborn | Silly question, but does anyone know if i can simply recompile certain apps using the maemo sdk in order to make them work on my tablet (no gui, so that isn't a concern) | 17:49 |
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| timeless | rhsanborn: as long as the libs aren't unhappy, it should work | 17:49 |
| timeless | are you trying to use os2006 software on os2007? | 17:50 |
| timeless | "Open Source Application Platform for Internet Tablets partly developed by OSSO" | 17:50 |
| rhsanborn | I'm trying to compile latex for the 800 | 17:50 |
| osfameron | what is OSSO ? | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Why bother with the OSSO reference? It's technically meaningless to anyone outside of Nokia | 17:50 |
| lardman | Is OSSO a company? I thought it was some kind of acronym | 17:50 |
| dwd | lardman: Dept within Nokia. | 17:51 |
| Jaffa | It's a Nokia department/team. | 17:51 |
| lardman | Ah, I see | 17:51 |
| osfameron | ah | 17:51 |
| timeless | "Open Source Application Platform for Internet Tablets" | 17:51 |
| osfameron | basically they package existing open source apps to make them broken on Maemo? ;-) | 17:51 |
| lardman | Sounds fine | 17:51 |
| timeless | "Open Source application platform for Internet Tablets" | 17:51 |
| timeless | osfameron: they write their own broken apps too | 17:52 |
| timeless | you can't forget them | 17:52 |
| Jaffa | timeless: "Open source application platform for Nokia's Internet Tablets" (since nothing else uses/can use it yet) | 17:52 |
| osfameron | timeless: aha, thanks, I had forgotten that :-) | 17:52 |
| dwd | timeless: Does "Internet Tablets" have an entry? | 17:52 |
| timeless | jaffa: not true | 17:52 |
| lardman | timeless: No reason why Open Source should be capitalised either then | 17:52 |
| timeless | jaffa: there's this group in china which used it | 17:52 |
| timeless | lardman: sold | 17:52 |
| Jaffa | timeless: that's unproven - and probably untrue. | 17:52 |
| Jaffa | Unless you know better? | 17:52 |
| Tak | if I have an SDL app with a desktop entry, do I need to do something special with dbus to get this app to show in the taskbar when it's launched from the command line? | 17:52 |
| timeless | i don't know better | 17:53 |
| dwd | Tak: Yes. :-) There was some intensive discussion about this on the list, erm, last month or so. | 17:53 |
| timeless | all i have is what i see on planet | 17:53 |
| * Tak searches | 17:53 | |
| Jaffa | timeless: There's no reference to it using Maemo, and I believe the expert consensus was that it was probably a UI ripoff, rather than Maemo itself. | 17:53 |
| timeless | there's no reason to think anyone would be stupid enough to reinvent nokia's platform w/ the same ui l&f | 17:53 |
| handful__ | osfameron : The need to conect on localhost is beyond our limits | 17:53 |
| timeless | jaffa: really? | 17:53 |
| timeless | wow | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | Tak: probably | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | there was something in the wiki about SDL apps and getting them into the taskbar | 17:53 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Also, *technically* it could just be the Hildon Desktop, rather than Maemo - but let's not get into that ;-) | 17:54 |
| handful__ | osfameron : the browser just does that.. we tried to pack on "dummy localhost" connection, but users were not happy with that.. | 17:54 |
| timeless | interesting | 17:54 |
| handful__ | I thought that the N800 would not need that hack : / | 17:54 |
| timeless | this document mentions hildon but doesn't define it | 17:54 |
| timeless | too bad | 17:54 |
| * timeless wonders what a hildon is | 17:54 | |
| timeless | and no, this document doesn't define internet tablet | 17:54 |
| timeless | instead it was using words which aren't correct | 17:55 |
| dwd | timeless: Aw. You're missing out on a wonderful circular reference opportunity, there. | 17:55 |
| timeless | dwd: i won't miss | 17:55 |
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| * timeless imagines googling for hildon | 17:55 | |
| osfameron | handful__: ah, fair enough. It's a shame though. Can you provide an alternative UI for the same functionality in the end? | 17:56 |
| * timeless decides googling for itdoesn't work | 17:56 | |
| mgedmin | hildon sounds like a hotel | 17:56 |
| timeless | hilton? | 17:56 |
| timeless | hilton's expensive | 17:56 |
| osfameron | handful__: by the way, Canola is very nice. Much less buggy than the default app, it has a sane sorting order for media tracks etc. | 17:56 |
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| timeless | and probably comfortable | 17:56 |
| timeless | etc. | 17:56 |
| * timeless can't say the same for hildon | 17:56 | |
| osfameron | handful__: I don't like though the fact that you can't click on all the tracks to play them, only the one that you're currently scrolled under. | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | osfameron: fixable with a hidden gconf key | 17:58 |
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| lardman | Tak: Found it?: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/GameDevelopment?highlight=%28sdl%29 | 17:58 |
| Tak | yeah, I'm editing it now ;-) | 17:58 |
| osfameron | mgedmin: which? | 17:58 |
| osfameron | mgedmin: (given that I seem to spend a large amount of time whining about various different software, I don't know which you're referring to :-) | 17:59 |
| timeless | hrm | 17:59 |
| timeless | hildon is mildly public, right? since it defines widgets for the platform | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | osfameron: canola and tapping | 17:59 |
| * mgedmin looking for the bug number now | 17:59 | |
| timeless | which you guys have been unable to indicate whether it's maemo or not :) | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | osfameron: http://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=529&aid=459&group_id=125 | 18:00 |
| osfameron | mgedmin: cool! I'm baffled as to what that isn't default, but cool nonetheless | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | I'm also baffled | 18:00 |
| osfameron | mgedmin: how do I edit gconf in maemo - is there an app to do it I've missed? | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | canola developers say they tried it and it "didn't work" | 18:00 |
| osfameron | heh | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | run that gconftool command mentioned in the bug comments in xterm/ssh | 18:01 |
| osfameron | well, it seems from the bug report that they prefer it that way | 18:01 |
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| handful__ | osfameron : you can actually do that | 18:01 |
| handful__ | but we disabled after some usability tests.. | 18:01 |
| osfameron | ah, it's a command line tool, cool | 18:02 |
| osfameron | handful__: that seems very strange | 18:02 |
| handful__ | and of course.. because the plan was to have the same ui also controllable by a simple remote control...etc | 18:02 |
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| handful__ | yes.. they do WANT to choose | 18:02 |
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| handful__ | but if the highlight is not the conventional one ... they got lost | 18:02 |
| osfameron | handful__: I found it utterly unintuitive :-) I initially concluded that all the playlists apart from "All" were broken, and that for the beta you hadn't implemented ALbum/Genre/Song/Random | 18:02 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Hildon is (almost?) entirely open source. It's a framework on top of Gtk+ and DBUS for running applications. It runs on Linux. Maemo is an open source operating system, based on Linux, which forms the basis of Nokia's OS 200x software releases. Hildon runs on Maemo and provides the task navigator, status bar, home applets etc. on your 770/N800. | 18:02 |
| dwd | I noticed gconf editor in the repositories today, which is handier than gconftool for fiddles and tweaks. | 18:03 |
| handful__ | so, until we are able to redesign to make a better list design, with no floating selection.. but rather a focus -> selection... | 18:03 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Hildon isn't a component of Maemo, then? | 18:03 |
| handful__ | yes, but that's why the "selection" area is so proeminent | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Given the work on running the Hildon Desktop outside of Maemo itself (e.g. on Ubuntu etc.) I'd say "no". However it's a semantic point, since the only thing really using Hildon is Maemo ;-) | 18:04 |
| osfameron | handful__: well, even I did eventually work it out :-) | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | handful__: have you tried making taps on menu items scroll the list down (or up) until the item you tapped on becomes selected? | 18:04 |
| handful__ | well, to be able to work with 4-way rocker + remote control + fingers was the way to go... there's always a price to pay | 18:04 |
| handful__ | mge -> yes.. | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | and your testers didn't like it? | 18:04 |
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| handful__ | but when you do this it would only work.. if the selection is in the middle | 18:04 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Well, that's no argument - the Linux kernel runs pretty fine outside Maemo too. | 18:04 |
| handful__ | when the selection shows only 1 item above it is a mess | 18:04 |
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| timeless | jaffa: sorry to nag, may i use that text? | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | dwd: yes, you wouldn't say the Linux kernel was under the "Maemo" umbrella, even though the Linux kernel is a critical part of Maemo (I realise I may have misparsed your original question) | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | still would be useful for short lists (all/random/artist/genre/etc) | 18:05 |
| handful__ | that's why now.. that the remote requiremet is dead, and we are really working on aa new ui | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | timeless: of course | 18:05 |
| wumpus | well at least I used the hildon color selector outside maemo :) | 18:05 |
| timeless | thanks :) | 18:05 |
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| handful__ | but I will publish the G-conf line | 18:06 |
| timeless | jaffa: and yes, i know this is rediculous | 18:06 |
| handful__ | and you can set it =) we almost placed it on the configure tool | 18:06 |
| dwd | Jaffa: So Maemo could be best described as the base distribution of the open source components used in the Nokia Internet Tablets. | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | dwd: so yes, Hildon is a necessary part of Maemo, but Hildon doesn't depend on Maemo. | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | handful__: why didn't you place in the configure tool? | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | dwd: That's how I'd describe it. | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | because checkboxes that mean "unbreak the software please" are bad? ;-) | 18:07 |
| handful__ | mge : we didn't got the n800 and we were 1 month late | 18:07 |
| timeless | i'll try really hard ot publish this mess | 18:07 |
| timeless | i promise | 18:07 |
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| handful__ | so we had a very very tight todo list : / | 18:07 |
| timeless | (it's a threat of sorts) | 18:07 |
| handful__ | but there's also a lot of other UI issues that I'm redesigning... that I also consider critical, and finally we will be able to do it faster with the new drawing API | 18:08 |
| * timeless frowns | 18:09 | |
| timeless | this last question's kinda stupid, i don't think i can ask it :( | 18:09 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: a computer is "an electronic device which follows a stored program to carry out one or more tasks" ;-) | 18:10 |
| dwd | Jaffa: No, the program need not be stored, as such. | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | handful__: you rock! | 18:11 |
| Tak | is it too late to request a non web-based configure tool? ;-) | 18:11 |
| osfameron | handful__: yeah, canola++, minor niggles notwithstanding | 18:11 |
| handful__ | TAK : | 18:11 |
| osfameron | I wondered a bit about the UI being non-native, but I sort of see the point if it's means for remote control from other devices too I guess | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | dwd: in the classical sense it must - i.e. it's in memory | 18:12 |
| * mgedmin googles for "canola faq" | 18:12 | |
| Tak | rofl | 18:12 |
| handful__ | the problem with a non web tool is : too much components to create dude : / it's almost making a brand new toolkit, and serious we don't have enough resources forthat | 18:12 |
| Tak | ok | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | a bit of an ungooglable phrase :/ | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | dwd: The quibbles being over exactly *what* was the first electronic stored program computer. | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | handful__: why isn't canola open source? | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | handful__: You could always release the source and get community support ;) | 18:12 |
| handful__ | osfameron : yes.. canola was developed outside scratchbox.. runs beautifully on the desktop | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | I'd be happy to try adding configuration options to the canola-ish pretty user interface | 18:13 |
| Tak | if canola was gpl (or mit or whatever), I bet some community members would contribute a configuration tool pretty quickly | 18:13 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Well, we could start quibbling over "electronic". A computer is merely an entity which performs computation. | 18:13 |
| handful__ | mgedmin: Managers decison. but after a lot of talk, my last arguments conviced them.. | 18:13 |
| * Tak ^5s mgedmin | 18:13 | |
| handful__ | we are going to to release almost everything of its source | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | yahoo! | 18:13 |
| handful__ | X-fade : of course.. that's what we want | 18:13 |
| Tak | that's great news | 18:13 |
| handful__ | but even that.. create a toolkit is too much : / | 18:13 |
| dwd | Jaffa: But the term is generally used to mean specifically electronic, and, more commonly, digital electronic computers, now. | 18:13 |
| Tak | I don't think a new toolkit needs to be created | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | it would be great to have canola-ish toolkit, I think | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | hm | 18:14 |
| Tak | for example, adding and removing things from the media scanlist can be handled like the app manager | 18:14 |
| handful__ | and lets be honest is just non-sense to make a lot of things just to enable configuration =) lets focus on a great experience while using it.. and when dirty configuration comes.. we can lose only 5% of our time on it =) | 18:14 |
| dwd | handful__: But if you have a distinct configuration store (you do, presumably, use gconf), then in principle, that could be written to use GTK+. | 18:14 |
| handful__ | yes | 18:15 |
| handful__ | dwd : if you want to create a GTK tool, then no problem =) | 18:15 |
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| X-Fade | I really don't mind the configuration web interface. I rarely use it. The Canola gui on the other hand, I use a lot.. | 18:15 |
| handful__ | What I'm saying here.. is having a SDL configuration tool is not a good option | 18:15 |
| dwd | handful__: No, because a) I have quite enough programming to do, and b) I can't really see the point in helping a closed-source project without being able to invoice at the end. | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | I don't suppose it would be easy to add non-full-screen mode to canola? | 18:16 |
| handful__ | and we went with the WEB option cause we can really use it in our laptops, etc.. so while browsing.. you can add new feeds, copy and paste from your desktop stuff.. | 18:16 |
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| handful__ | dwd : I didn't mean "if you want.. do your self" I wanted to mean "yes it's possible, it's doable" | 18:16 |
| handful__ | but then one of our requirements was : remote configuration : ) | 18:17 |
| dwd | handful__: Oh, and I should point out - Telomer can be (and usually is) configured from a PC or a laptop, and has no web interface. | 18:17 |
| handful__ | yes a lot of things can be like that.. the problem is what you said.. we have limited resources, so, we went for the fastest one | 18:18 |
| handful__ | and we don't need to ask users to install anything, neither make packages for macs, windows and linux on desktop : | 18:18 |
| rhsanborn | Silly question, but from where does one dl canola? | 18:21 |
| handful__ | anyways.. was a tough decision =) I'm the Ui guy remember =) I would REALLY love to make some finger based configuration hehehehe =) but I don't decide budgets..etc | 18:21 |
| handful__ | =) | 18:21 |
| Tak | does anybody happen to know: do I need to export SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS before I launch the app, or can I set it programmatically inside the app using putenv() ? | 18:21 |
| handful__ | http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/ | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | Tak: the wiki said you can use putenv... | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | to be safe I'd do that before calling SDL initialization functions | 18:21 |
| rhsanborn | Thx | 18:21 |
| lardman | What happens if your plain X11 app creates multiple windows? Do they appear on the taskbar, or vanish? | 18:22 |
| Tak | oh wow | 18:22 |
| Tak | apparently I've forgotten how to scroll down before asking silly questions | 18:22 |
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| lardman | handful__: The link at the bottom of that page is wrong - too many w's | 18:23 |
| handful__ | well I did my share of the work I think =) we did it, it's at least a little bit stable, I talked for months to release it open source.. now it's going to be (at least most of it) and I really don;t see the point of not releasing it all ehehhe | 18:23 |
| handful__ | lardman : thanks I will fix now | 18:23 |
| lardman | handful__: http://wwww.indt.org.br/ to be exact | 18:23 |
| handful__ | yeah | 18:24 |
| handful__ | fixed =) | 18:24 |
| handful__ | will upload in the next open network I can find =) | 18:25 |
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| handful__ | gotta go! | 18:45 |
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| elephantum | is it possible to install additional video codecs on n800? | 18:49 |
| zuh | Yes | 18:49 |
| pbrook | Or you can install mplayer ;-) | 18:49 |
| zuh | (not in any "supported" way tough) | 18:49 |
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| elephantum | zuh: can you give me a hint, I cant find solution in internet | 18:51 |
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| tuxperger | intermittent reboot/reboot loops: a software problem? | 18:53 |
| c0ffee | if it stops when you reflash, yes :) | 18:55 |
| tuxperger | c0ffee: Haven't tried yet | 18:55 |
| tuxperger | It stopped all by itself... last week my 770 was very sick. Now, like new | 18:55 |
| tuxperger | the lifeguard restart flagged hcid -n... yes I have been tinkering with BT | 18:57 |
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| zuh | elephantum: Well, first you compile the gstreamer plugins you want in scratchbox, then you copy them on the device, then you pray that the media player is not too hardcoded to take it into use... | 19:11 |
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| zuh | elephantum: I'm not sure if the media player actually notices anything but the preinstalled modules, but I've been playing with theora and ogg myself from the command line | 19:13 |
| dwd | zuh: I found some instructions on all that, but I could never get even Ogg/Vorbis playing off the commandline. | 19:15 |
| zuh | Which instructions? | 19:16 |
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| dwd | zuh: Um... Mentioned a couple of weeks ago on the list. Pointed me at a multimedia HOWTO for Maemo. | 19:21 |
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| tko | all developers are following the first point here, right? http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html :) | 19:25 |
| nomis | tko: yep. Providing shell scripts called "iptables" is the first step :) | 19:27 |
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| florian | heh | 19:29 |
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| Jaffa | nomis: :) | 19:30 |
| tko | ummm? | 19:30 |
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| nomis | tko: never mind, I was referring to this pointless "firewall" discussion on the mailinglist. | 19:31 |
| tko | thought so | 19:31 |
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| keesj | I think that people are trying to run vpn's on the device | 19:33 |
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| keesj | tko: the problem is where to find good people willing to do tech support. | 19:38 |
| keesj | I do enjoy joel's posts a lot. | 19:38 |
| disq | back, hi. | 19:39 |
| Tak | if there were more good employers, there would be more good employees | 19:40 |
| Tak | IMSVHO | 19:40 |
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| osfameron | SV ? | 19:40 |
| cxmac | Hey guys, I have a basic question about the n800's directory structure. I used bluetooth to transfer a file over to my n800 and put it in a directory visible to the File Manager called 'games'. I'd like to move it to /Home/user/games, but I'm not sure where it is located right now. | 19:41 |
| Tak | so very | 19:41 |
| tko | so very ? | 19:41 |
| tko | cxmac, probably /home/user/MyDocs/.games | 19:41 |
| cxmac | ok, MyDocs - cool | 19:41 |
| cxmac | I'll check. | 19:41 |
| Tak | cxmac: that folder is actually /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/.games | 19:42 |
| cxmac | Oh, I get it. I wasn't seeing the .-hidden directories | 19:42 |
| osfameron | yeah. that completely confused me one time | 19:43 |
| osfameron | I'd deleted stuff off the MMC, but of course it was still in .Trash, and therefore the media player saw it | 19:43 |
| tko | Tak, that's on 770 | 19:43 |
| Tak | omg, is it different on n800? | 19:43 |
| cxmac | rad, found it at /home/users/.MyDocs/.games | 19:43 |
| Tak | wtf is the point of that?! | 19:44 |
| tko | games as documents subfolder. wtf is the point of that?! :) | 19:44 |
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| Tak | I agree that it was stupid in the first place, but changing it is worse | 19:44 |
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| keesj | Tak: have you been reading Joel :p | 19:53 |
| Tak | but of course | 19:53 |
| keesj | I really start to enjoy such posts and books, I used to only read tech stuff | 19:54 |
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| timeless | tigert: the vkb isn't properly plankton placed | 20:13 |
| timeless | no padding on right or bottom | 20:14 |
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| kender | hi | 20:38 |
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| tigert | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8233566677302502582&q=top+gear+space+shuttle | 20:54 |
| tigert | this is insanely awesome | 20:54 |
| tigert | timeless: is there padding on the other themes on right or bottom? :) | 20:55 |
| disq | echo "your system is now secured" | 20:55 |
| disq | heh this thread is awesome (and boring. at the same time) | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | the guy is amazing | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | "I demand my placebo!" | 20:56 |
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| Tak | the whole thread is amazing | 20:58 |
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| maddler | back! | 21:07 |
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| user_ | anyone havin trouble with canola config? keeps askin for a password | 21:28 |
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| Tak | did you set a password initially? | 21:29 |
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| user_ | sorry for the repeat, spotty net connection here. anyone else havin trouble with canola config. keeps askin for password | 21:35 |
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| dolfun | canola is vpn client? | 21:36 |
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| keesj | user_: it must be a opera issue , try looking in the opera settings | 21:36 |
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| Tak | canola is a media player | 21:37 |
| keesj | dolfun: canola is a "media-center" | 21:37 |
| dolfun | heh oop | 21:37 |
| dolfun | was thinking of "racoon"... too many drugs... | 21:38 |
| keesj | having carnaval? | 21:38 |
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| dolfun | carneval here is in full swing... not me though | 21:48 |
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| dolfun | carne-vale.. meat adieu | 21:49 |
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| jobi | hi all | 21:53 |
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| chx | i saw on the toughtflix blog how he made a mini laptop but I would more like a case which is similar in size to the N800 and yet it can keep a foldable keyboard and the N800 together -- the whole thing is pointless if I need a desk for the thing | 22:04 |
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| Guard][an | how to constrain the maximum size of a widget ? hook the size request signal , | 22:10 |
| Guard][an | ? | 22:10 |
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| zuh | Depends on the situation, could you be more specific? | 22:13 |
| zuh | Size request is not the signal that actually determines the size, there is no benefit over listening to it instead of simply setting the size request. | 22:15 |
| zuh | The actual size comes in size-allocate | 22:15 |
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| zuh | And depends on the parent container | 22:15 |
| Guard][an | well | 22:17 |
| zuh | If the parent supports hints like expand and fill, you can just state a size request, set expand and fill to false and have the desired effect | 22:17 |
| Guard][an | the situation is: i have a gtkbutton | 22:17 |
| Guard][an | which i want to be fixed size | 22:17 |
| zuh | If not, well... you need to hack, and it's going to be ugly. | 22:17 |
| Guard][an | fixed width to be precise | 22:17 |
| Guard][an | and i would like the label to wrap | 22:17 |
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| Guard][an | the button is placed inside a GtkFixed container | 22:18 |
| disq | sizing in gtk is tricky. i still don't understand/remember it after 9 years :P | 22:18 |
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| zuh | Pfft, it just has some quirks, that's all :) | 22:18 |
| Tak | iirc GtkFixed is goofy anyway | 22:19 |
| zuh | Fixed is a big dummy | 22:19 |
| Guard][an | yeah | 22:20 |
| Guard][an | but i'm asked to do a skinned gui :) | 22:20 |
| zuh | It takes the childs size request and gives it back as-is IIRC | 22:20 |
| Guard][an | fixed positionning and sizes | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | eek | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | use sdl :) | 22:20 |
| Guard][an | expand, and fill are there properties ? i don't see this in GtkContainer | 22:21 |
| zuh | Guard][an: They are properties of the GtkBox IIRC | 22:21 |
| zuh | Guard][an: But with Fixed you should be able to just set_size_request() and always get that | 22:21 |
| Guard][an | well | 22:22 |
| Guard][an | i do a gtk_widget_set_size_request on my button | 22:22 |
| Guard][an | but then, depending on the locale, the label of the button may be too long | 22:22 |
| Guard][an | and in such a case i would like it to wrap (which is not done automatically) | 22:22 |
| Guard][an | what's happening is that the label is cut | 22:23 |
| Guard][an | but the button is sized so that if line wrapping can be enabled, then it would fit | 22:23 |
| Guard][an | anyway, gtk_button_set_label calls a private gtk_button_construct_child which just creates a new GtkLabel at every call which is dumb imho :( | 22:24 |
| Guard][an | GtkButton is done in such a way that if you want to change the label of the button for some reason, it involes bunches of memcopy and widget creation | 22:24 |
| zuh | Hmm, if I'm not mistaken, you can access the label directly with GTK_BIN(button)->child | 22:25 |
| zuh | And set it to wrapping that way | 22:25 |
| zuh | or set the text in the label | 22:26 |
| Guard][an | yeah could work | 22:26 |
| zuh | And the button internal structure is a bit odd indeed... | 22:27 |
| Guard][an | it's a hack anyway since the GtkButton stores the label 2 times: 1 time as a property, 1 time as a GtkLabel that itself stores a copy of the label | 22:27 |
| Guard][an | doesn't seem very effcient to me | 22:27 |
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| zuh | Sounds more like "backwards compatible" :) | 22:28 |
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| Guard][an | "retard compatible" :D | 22:29 |
| zuh | People like you hacking on the internals make it necessary not to break the scheme ;) | 22:33 |
| zuh | hmh | 22:33 |
| zuh | actually it's the other way round | 22:34 |
| zuh | The property and convenience APIs are the ones that require that | 22:34 |
| zuh | Otherwise buttons would be just containers and you'd have to build the label yourself | 22:35 |
| zuh | every time | 22:35 |
| zuh | Which would btw be a viable option for you too :) | 22:35 |
| Guard][an | sure | 22:35 |
| Guard][an | i guess i'll write a custom widget | 22:35 |
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| Guard][an | copy/pasting GtkLabel as a base | 22:35 |
| Guard][an | like i already mentioned, i would also have been grateful if shaping windows from gtkrc was possible :) | 22:37 |
| zuh | Why custom widget? Just create a label, set it to wrapping, give it a size request and pack it into the button? | 22:38 |
| zuh | And for custom widgets, deriving is better than c&p... It's a OO-like scheme after all. | 22:39 |
| Guard][an | actually, manipulating the label directly is a wise advice | 22:41 |
| Guard][an | i just need to prevent the label from expanding | 22:41 |
| tko | Guard][an, shaping windows from gtkrc works with sapwood :) | 22:44 |
| Guard][an | tko: yeah i discovered that | 22:44 |
| Guard][an | tko: btw do you know what's the use of the sapwood server ? | 22:45 |
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| zuh | Guard][an: He should, he wrote it :P | 22:45 |
| tko | Guard][an, it 'owns' the pixmaps so that there's only one copy ever | 22:45 |
| tko | resource management basically | 22:46 |
| Guard][an | ok | 22:46 |
| tko | I've been meaning to write docs but more urgent stuff just keeps popping up | 22:47 |
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| Guard][an | also, it would have been great to have a theme engine that supports css | 22:49 |
| Guard][an | but i guess the way gtk works it would not be possible to do positionning | 22:49 |
| Tak | imo that's a horrible idea | 22:49 |
| Guard][an | Tak: why ? | 22:49 |
| koen | qt4 has it | 22:50 |
| Guard][an | as far as I know, the theme painting functions are just passed a drawable and a region to paint in | 22:50 |
| koen | Guard][an: glade+gtkrc combined would be what you want | 22:50 |
| Guard][an | koen: yes, don't know if qtopia has it though | 22:50 |
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| Guard][an | yeah well not exactly since I guess that glade produces an xml description and the positioning information is inside this xml, and cannot be altered from an external stylesheet | 22:51 |
| tko | funny how apple gets along with just one theme (if I've understood it correctly) | 22:52 |
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| koen | tko: sort of | 22:52 |
| koen | there's 'white' and 'metal' | 22:52 |
| Guard][an | koen: glade+gtkrc+scripting could be fun | 22:52 |
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| koen | (apply fanboy, you may start flaming me) | 22:52 |
| Tak | bring all the uncertainty and headache of web design to applications? no thank you | 22:54 |
| Tak | and I dislike qt :-P | 22:54 |
| Guard][an | i don't see it this way :) | 22:54 |
| Guard][an | and for sure, it depends on what you want to achieve | 22:55 |
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| Tak | you could always use gtkhtml ;-) | 22:55 |
| Guard][an | :D | 22:56 |
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| zuh | Guard][an: You could always alter the glade file. Make a program that getenv()'s the file name to load and then just export yours into the environment or something... | 23:01 |
| Guard][an | well i'm googling for glade | 23:02 |
| Guard][an | never used it | 23:02 |
| garrett | glade is interesting | 23:04 |
| garrett | you have to wrap your mind around it a bit | 23:04 |
| zuh | It's simple really, just describing the widget tree, their properties and the properties of the relations in xml | 23:05 |
| Tak | yeah | 23:05 |
| zuh | Then there is libglade to load the files in apps and glade to create them with a gui | 23:05 |
| Tak | I wish libglade would be merged into gtk core | 23:06 |
| tko | 2.12 might have gtkbuilder | 23:06 |
| zuh | If it gets ready by that... | 23:07 |
| tko | and reviewed and ... | 23:07 |
| Guard][an | gtkbuilder is another project ? why not use libglade then ? | 23:07 |
| tko | like I said, 'might' | 23:07 |
| tko | gtkbuilder is libglade done right, or so | 23:08 |
| zuh | libglade is old and moldy, it's about time to do it again... :) | 23:09 |
| Guard][an | work sponsored by Nokia, hmm in the context of maemo and the internet tablet ? | 23:09 |
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| Guard][an | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html#vkb --> for instance, instead of having <keysizes> and <size> markups that mix content and presentation, the "class" attribute could have been used like in html | 23:26 |
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| |mk8| | Hi to all ... | 23:33 |
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| Andy80 | Hi | 23:43 |
| rev | hey | 23:44 |
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| sp3000 | Guard][an: it's really all presentation, <row> and whatnot aren't that abstractly content | 23:59 |
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