IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-02-07

* Jaffa disagrees. If there's no upstream source, how exactly is mud supposed to handle that? (From what I can gather and your mail, keesj)00:00
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keesjJaffa: I don't know , there is an upstream source but not where mud is searching00:01
JaffaNot where mud is searching, where `apt-get source' is searchiing.00:01
keesjand you are going to say that it is not mud ..00:01
JaffaI take your point, though00:01
AkatemikJaffa: Hi again00:02
JaffaAkatemik: hi00:02
AkatemikIs there a way to get sylpheed load mails when preparing for offline mode?00:02
keesjalright , peraps a bann-repo , or perhaps if there is a deb-src that one can be used (as only one?)00:02
Jaffakeesj: I'd prefer to not have checked in to svn packages which don't work (even if it's due to a MUD bug)00:02
AkatemikSomething like loading the full text of all new mail would be really, really great00:03
Jaffakeesj: yeah, I was thinking along the same lines00:03
keesjAkatemik: why not use dovecot as local imap server , dovecot pretty much rules00:03
Akatemikkeesj: Hmm, I'll have to check that. It would do what I want?00:03
JaffaAkatemik: no idea - I'm fairly certain it does with POP3, but I don't use IMAP00:03
AkatemikJaffa: It does with pop3, since the whole point of that protocol is to download everything.00:04
AkatemikUnfortunately pop3 isn't really useful for keeping the remote box up to date00:04
keesjAkatemik: I don't know what you want but I have been using dovecot + fetchmail as a great combination to have ofline mail00:05
Akatemikkeesj: I'm not sure if you were here before, so allow me to repeat myself: I use imap(s) to read my university mail and I'd like to use 770 as a mail terminal for going through new mail and writing replies while transiting on the bus.00:06
AkatemikThe idea is that I can use that 30-45 minutes of offline doing something useful00:06
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AkatemikReading/writing mails would be nice, since I have to do that at some point of the day anyway00:07
fishyes! scapy with graphviz works on my nokia 770 now =)00:07
AkatemikSo after the transit and returning online, the 770 should send the mails I wrote and synch the status of new mail to old, so that they don't appear as new again at my desktop00:07
AkatemikAnd why did my 770 just crash :( Maybe because I tried to load a 200 meg videofile...00:08
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* mgedmin likes offlineimap + dovecot00:10
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mgedminofflineimap is written in Python, so porting it to the 770 should not be hard00:10
AkatemikHmm, ok00:10
mgedminand someone already ported mutt00:10
AkatemikYeah, mutt is preferred00:11
AkatemikI use that on my desktop00:11
mgedminyou'd also need some way of queueing outgoing mails and sending them later00:11
mgedminpostfix on the 770?00:11
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AkatemikBut mutt doesn't play nicely on offline mode normally. If it would, it would not suck as badly :)00:11
mgedminI only use mutt with local mailboxes/maildirs00:12
Akatemikmgedmin: Quite many mail programs can do that, the trivial hack with mutt would be to postpone everything00:12
mgedminthat would require user training :)00:12
AkatemikBut for example sylpheed handles queuing outgoiing mail while on offline mode00:12
AkatemikIt just doesn't handle the incoming that well00:12
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Akatemikmgedmin: I  can train myself really well :)00:12
AkatemikThis is a purely selfish quest00:13
jeepersdoes anyone know why i would get an error saying that python2.5 is missing on the device when trying to install an app?00:13
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AkatemikIs there a nice apt.source for the apps in maemo app database, or is every app in a different place?00:14
mgedminthe apps are mostly scattered00:14
mgedmineasiest way to install them is to use the "click to install" links in the new application catalog00:14
Akatemikmgedmin: So, could you tersely describe how offlineimap + dovecot works?00:16
mgedmindovecot runs on my work server, where I keep my mail00:16
mgedminofflineimap runs on my laptop and does two-way synchronization with the imap server00:16
mgedminI run offlineimap, then use mutt on my laptop00:17
mgedminmove read messages to folders etc00:17
mgedminthen run offlineimap again to update the folders on the server00:17
mgedmin(and get new mail)00:17
AkatemikIt keeps a full repository of the mail on your laptop?00:18
mgedminas multiple maildirs00:18
mgedminone maildir for each imap folder00:19
mgedmin(and since my ~/Mail weighs about 1 GB, I am not going to run offlineimap on my 770 any time soon)00:19
AkatemikHmm, not quite what I want (my maildirs are huge and 770 space is limited), but I guess the script is hackable00:19
mgedminI think you can filter the synchronization to just a few folders00:19
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mgedminsay, the inbox00:19
AkatemikWell, I only use inbox...00:20
* Akatemik loves mutt filters00:20
AkatemikI used to divide my mail into different folders, until I realised that the criteria keep changing way too fast00:20
AkatemikSo these days I simply limit and filter to what I need at any given time00:20
Akatemikkeesj: What kind of setup did you have in mind?00:21
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mgedminI have pre-set filter patterns mapped to alt-2...alt-1200:24
mgedminfor managing my inbox by mailing lists00:24
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mgedminI created alternative mappings on ,2 ... ,12 when I started using mutt over ssh from the 77000:25
maddlernice... "flasher-3.0 --set-root-device mmc" has no effect on N80000:26
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maddleror is it me?00:26
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maddler"The device root device is 'mmc'"00:27
maddlerbut still booting from flash...00:27
jeepersgoing to go kill myself... ciao...00:27
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jeff_newbie questions OK here?00:28
tigertask, we'll see :)00:28
maddlerjeff_: ask...00:29
jeff_trying to get python running under scratchbox.  says ImportError: No module named gtk00:29
jeff_how do I get gtk and libs there (it actually works on 770)00:30
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AkatemikHmm, the python2.5-runtime isn't installable :/00:31
jeff_using 2.400:31
jeff_how to install runtime, then for 2.400:31
Akatemikjeff_: Ah, sorry. Wasn't talking about your problem. I'm even more newbiew to 770 and Maemo. I've owned this device for 4 hours00:32
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s-ndh-cist it possible to test the binarys in scratchbox+xephyr first before moving to the device? i allways get BadWindow error00:35
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aCiDBaSejeff_: you need to call python2.4 or python2.500:37
aCiDBaSejeff_: if you call just "python" scratchbox will start the python2.3 inside the /scratchbox/tools/bin00:37
jeff_bash: python2.4: command not found00:38
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s-ndh-coh i it somehow didnt successfuly start the window manager , now it works00:39
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TakJaffa: that package will work on bora, scirocco, and gregale ;-)00:40
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fishuhm.. i cant start image-viewer somepic.jpg, right? is there another way to display a image with the image viewer from the terminal?00:46
jeff_can anyone tell me how do I load native packages on SDK_PC, particulary python2.4 with gtk and glade support00:47
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maddlerjeff_: try also on maemo-users list...00:54
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maddlermaybe someone could help...00:54
jeff_ok, will do that, tnx00:55
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kkitojajaja i have quake2 running at good speed!01:09
fish?? ;)01:09
glasssson 800 or?01:09
kkitoyes on n800 ;)01:10
kkitobut the sound is really bad, there are some problems with the alsa01:10
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etrunkokkito: can you upload a video of it to youtube?01:12
kkitojejeje :)01:13
kkitofirt i must to repair the audio01:13
MDKkkito: quake2 ?01:13
MDKI mean, really '2' ?01:14
kkitoyes quake2 ;)01:14
MDKthanks god it's quake2, not quake101:14
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MDKotherwise my productivity for the next month would be seriously compromised01:15
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MDKsince I would need to 'test it'01:15
kkitojajaja xD01:15
MDKbut quake2 sucks ;)01:15
kkitoif you want i can port quake1 too :)01:15
myrensome ttyquake1 would rock the fscking house01:16
myrenespecially with such a high res display01:16
myrenwhat sized terminal can you rock on the n800?01:16
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neostriderhey fellows01:17
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myrenquake2 ctf rocked the fscking house01:19
kkitoit supports ctf too01:19
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fishthe n770 is way too slow for q2 i guess..?01:22
kkitofish, i dont know :/ perhaps yes because it hasnt the hw floating point01:28
nomisit does stuff:
nomis(despite the directory name only tested on the n800)01:29
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nomis(volume does not yet work properly.01:30
neostriderkkito: My raycaster ran faster than PC heheh01:30
kkitoneostrider, :)01:31
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myrenjeezus thats so rocktastic01:39
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* maddler dies02:01
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nomisHmm, is it possible to watch a specific gconf-key with gconftool? Similar to dbus-monitor?02:05
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neostridermatt: Hey...did you get Quake on Maemo anyway?02:12
neostridermatt_c: did you get quake on maemo?02:13
matt_cneostrider: ya know, I don't think I ever tried after getting a 770.02:13
* matt_c makes note to kill some comment spam on his blog.02:14
matt_cthe maemo doom port was pretty fun but once I got over the "cool" factor the controls were a bit tedious02:14
glassssit's stupid that there's no buttons on the other side of the screen02:15
glassssit's a stupid thing that is common for nokia devices that makes them much shittier for gaming than what they could be02:15
neostridermatt_c: its not very appropriate game for it02:15
* matt_c hugs his taco.02:15
glassssjust 1-2 buttons on the other side would do wonders for s60s gaming capabilities02:15
neostriderglassss: I also did some gamedev for S60. N-Gage cracking my head to design good controls for the games im working on, for the 77002:16
matt_cit's a shame too since the d-pad and the button that would make a great "fire" button are controlled by the same finger02:18
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[mbm]put some onscreen button in the corners02:21
glassssnot nearly as good02:22
[mbm]better than nothing02:22
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neostrider[mbm]: fingerprints on screen....aaarrrrrgh!02:23
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glassssand no travel02:24
[mbm]well then use usb host mode and wire up a controller pad :P02:24
glassssnot something you could expect your casual gamer to do02:24
glassssif you're coding a game that you would people to play02:24
neostriderand about a hardcover which would press onscreen buttons gentlier02:25
neostridernokia could do that02:25
neostridera hardcover with a big hole02:25
glassssright now, n770/n800, i'd make the game use the screen upwise(whats the right word.. so that you would press home etc as fire with other thumb and pad with another02:25
glassssyeah a cover like that would work, but you couldn't really expect users to have it02:26
[mbm]the blocks (tetris) game already makes you rotate the screen02:26
neostrider[mbm]: he's talking about the inverse blocks do02:27
neostriderglassss: im changing my plans from a first person shooter to a myst-like adventure ,using ONLY the stylus...I guess its the only option we have02:28
neostrider(but I still want to port defendguin...I LOVE that game!)02:28
[mbm]you're not being creative enough02:28
glassssyeah, designing the game to the device is best.. but it sucks if you have to limit the style because of that02:29
kkitoi am uploading the quake2 video to yuoutube...02:29
glasssswhat i'd like to do for maemo would be a cannon fodder clone02:29
glassssit would be quite doale02:29
glassssand controllable, pad for movement, stylus for shooting around02:29
neostrider[mbm]: maybe...but I guess this is the best to do to match the UI feel02:29
[mbm]you could draw a d-pad on the screen for the stylus and then use the hardware dpad for buttons02:29
neostriderglassss: love that game!02:30
[mbm]or just make it like the mario64 nintendo ds games where anywhere you touch on the screen turns into a dpad02:30
glasssswar! never been so much fun!02:30
neostriderno simultaneous taps...right?02:30
[mbm]probably not02:31
neostriderit gets the middlepoint of the simultaneous taps02:32
neostriderbut still, there is some way to use this ;-)02:32
neostridersome clever design02:32
neostrideri hate touching the screen with my finger02:33
[mbm]well, the n800 is atleast smart enough to know the difference between a finger and a stylus, might be able to do simultaneous02:34
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neostridermaybe...or maybe its just some clever programming to know a lot of simultaneous press around a area that is probably the radius of a finger02:35
neostrider[mbm]: what kind of game are you doing?02:36
* [mbm] isn't doing any game02:36
neostriderglassss: are you designing games too, right?02:36
[mbm]just commenting on the earlier discussion02:36
glassssneostride: i wish, occupied with some non-game symbian programming..02:37
glassssbut as a hobby..02:37
glassssfor which i don't have that much time now02:37
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kkito <--- quake2 running on n80002:37
glassssthough if i started a new project i'd probably do it in j2me02:37
neostriderglassss: symbian...just the simple glance of CArrayFixFlat<> gives me goosebumps02:38
glassssneostride: that ain't the wors of it even, the security shit in 3rd ed is02:38
neostriderkkito: "not available yet"02:38
neostriderglassss: I only dealt with SDK 1.2 ...lucky me02:39
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neostriderIt was quite a school to me02:39
neostriderbut when I saw Maemo, I saw the light hahahha02:39
neostriderbeing stuck to windows wasnt that pleasant02:40
neostriderafter my N-Gage was stolen...I had nothing more putting me asside linux02:40
glasssstoo bad maemo isn't spread enough for it to be intresting to us in commercial way02:40
neostrideras linus said: "its just for pleasure" ;-)02:41
glasssstoo bad, i'd like to justify me getting a 800 :p02:41
neostriderbut...hell...i still see maemo as a great gaming plataform just waiting to be02:41
neostriderI still want to do some massing game into it a card game hahhahah02:42
neostriderhey...maybe crossfire is a good choice02:44
glassssis there effort for porting urquan masters?02:45
[mbm]don't think the n800 will be that great of a gaming platform since most games these days are 3d rendered02:45
[mbm]maybe the next maemo platform will have 3d hardware02:46
glassssplenty of good games can be done without 3d..02:47
kkito[mbm], n800 has a powervr02:47
glassssi'd argue that 2d games are more suitable for the controls available too.. i'm not too fond of doom on 770's controls02:47
[mbm]sure, I'm not much of an fps fan; just pointing out the current state of the gaming industry02:47
kkito[mbm], althought there are no drivers,02:47
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kkitoand the simmd instruction from armv6 and the floating point are good enought, almost for the quake2 ;)02:48
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glasssselite clone would be nice02:49
kkitoahh youtube is very slow encoding the video....02:50
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kkito <-- iep now it runs02:58
[mbm]hmm prices of transcend 4G SD cards on amazon keeps dropping03:00
[mbm]was $55 last week, down to $49 now03:01
[mbm]wonder if it has anything to do with all the n800 articles about non sdhc memcards03:02
kkitodid you see the video?03:05
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kkitoneostrider, :)03:13
neostriderkkito: quite fast!03:14
kkitoneostrider, yes i am impressed too :)03:14
neostridermaybe we can get hexen to run on the 770...its not that demanding03:14
neostriderkkito: and the control methods?03:15
kkitoneostrider, not implemented03:15
kkitoit is only a test03:15
myren[mbm]: the powervr would be awsome03:15
neostriderI see...but i guess the source, brings some standard configs for the controls, right?03:16
kkitoneostrider, it is mapped to a normal keyboard and mouse events, i must to change it03:16
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kkitoif i can make something playable i will make a package03:17
neostriderbut hey...the rocker acts as the keyboard keys...esc is presend...mouse events (though touch screen ) are present03:17
neostridermaybe its not device optimized, but it is not playable?03:17
glasssshexen was just enhanced doom engine wasnt it?03:19
kkitowell i suppose that it can be playable in the n800, doom is really fun on the 77003:19
glassssit should run ok03:19
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myrenglassss: yes but it'd had a number of maturation years by then03:19
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myrensome day 3d hardware will be standard03:19
myrenopengl onboard03:19
[mbm]glassss: right03:19
[mbm]myren: yeah, I look forwrd to the day my cereal box has gl characters moving around03:20
neostriderhexen is a very teaked doom engine branch03:21
neostrideralso is strife03:21
neostriderstrife is the best doom engine game i ever saw03:21
[mbm]you could probably do duke3d just as easily03:22
glasssswell, duke is a bit heavier.. but probably03:23
myrenkqemu is the accelerator for QEMU?  i had no idea.  ROCK-TASTIC!03:25
neostrideractually, Duke is very tricky03:25
neostriderthe ports are still in progress03:26
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neostriderits code was realeased quite late03:26
myrenand was dirty from the start03:30
myrenhows the Q1 & Q2 code?  i'm not sure how clean/maintainable that was.03:31
neostriderI guess Q2 code is cleaner, right?03:33
neostrideractually Q2 = WinQuake (right from Q1) + some nasty stuff03:33
neostriderany SDL developer in the house?03:33
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rofltoshscoooore... on my N800 now... talking in IRC03:36
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neostriderplease, folks, try MaemoWizard?
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jwb_goneis there somewhere within the SDK that tells me which libs are present?04:22
* jwb_gone is a maemo/debian newbie04:22
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Takhahahahha, the new app catalog crashes opera on my 77005:51
Takactually *every* page is crashing opera05:53
* Tak restarts05:53
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keesjhappy happy joy joy06:10
cesmanhappy happy joy06:11
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Toma-is VNC viewing relativly good on the 770?06:24
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gpdhere is a random question for the # --- can you use a US corded landline phone in other countries eg. UK ?06:42
eeejaygpd, i believe so06:43
gpdeeejay: ok - that is good enough - it goes in the shipping box ;)06:44
gpdhow are things in maemo land?06:44
gpdI am still loving maemo-mapper with my i-blue 2 :D06:44
gpdbut i am still waiting for the cascade of OS2007 apps to be ported from 200606:45
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eeejaygpd, could you recommend a bt gps that works with the n800?06:49
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* cesman has an iblue 320006:49
eeejaythanks cesman06:49
gpdeeejay: well the i-blue 2 that i have works great06:49
gpdeeejay: there is a thread on internetablet talk with others06:49
gpdi bought from them and had 0 problems -06:50
gpdone annoyance so far is related to maemo-mapper i think - if you get out of range of the gps then maemo-mapper 'goes away' - i need to test this further however06:51
cesmangpd, I've reported that bug06:51
gpdcesman: ok not just me then :(06:52
mitchelocis it true that the n800 uses jffs2 as the file system?06:52
* Tak kicks generator06:53
eeejaygpd, cool, added to shopping cart, thanks :)06:53
gpdeeejay: nice nice :)06:54
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myrenits so annoying how little analytical comparison there is of different gps recievers07:36
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kulvemitcheloc: hmm.. Sure it uses jffs2. Isn't it the most used fs type on flash devices?07:41
desrtlogfs, anyone?07:43
* gpd notes arrival of gammu in main07:45
kulvedesrt: hmm.. does logsfs take the flash wearing in to account?07:45
gpddoes anyone have gnumeric working on N800?  I found arm binaries for mistral only last time i checked07:47
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zuhkeesj: "we" == Movial (we have one at the office and one of my co-workers stuffed gentoo on it). And as for the cost, I guess it costs as much as a lower end laptops. It's basically the same hardware anyway :)08:30
zuh(talking about the Samsung Q1)08:30
zuhThe screen is so big it get's all fuzzy at 800x480 (but I may be spoiled by the N800 display ;)08:31
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keesjzuh yea , the display is really the killer app08:52
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zuhToo bad getting stuff drawn on it is so sluggish...08:58
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zuhOr rather "is not accelerated" I guess, the speed is not really what I describe "bad", it just could be much better.09:06
keesjyes, but it the device would become a psp ,ds and gpx2 killer09:07
keesjwe don't want that to happen do we?09:07
keesjbut I am having great fun with the device as is, and to be honest when I am not hacking on it , the speeds is more then good for cheking mail09:09
keesjthe 770 was not fast enough for the default gmail but the n800 is09:09
keesjI have to go, Movial sounds interesting09:10
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AkatemikArgh, the mail app is using over 10 megs of space and is so slow that I cannot remove the mails. Where are the mails in the filesystem, I'll remove them from the shell09:49
Akatemik(locate would be nice...)09:49
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BlackholdI'm trying to install vlc to my N80010:07
BlackholdI use the repositories of vlc webpage and don't works :(10:07
Blackholdcould some one give me some help please?10:08
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zuhIf you want to see some really greasy Nokia tablet screens (yuck, should've wiped them before), go to:
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keesjzuh: it's a wet dearm come true10:38
X-FadeAny news on the FM radio in N800? :)10:38
keesjX-Fade: I think it was also discussed on irc when the n800 just apeared in the whild10:39
keesjhmm perhaps that the perfomance of the vnc recording can be improved if vnc2swf is run(ed)? on the device10:41
X-Fadekeesj: A lot of nokia phones use that same chip, so it could be possible.10:42
BlackholdX-Fade: N800 got a FM radio?10:42
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X-FadeBlackhold: There is a hint of that in /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-001010:43
zbenjaminhello @ all10:43
X-FadeTEA5761 FM-Radio10:43
X-FadeFor which there are linux drivers..10:43
X-FadeAlso in dmesg: tea5761 0-0010: tea5761 (version 7) detected at 0-001010:45
suihkulokkisoo.. compile a v4l2 radio api and try it out :)10:45
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AD-N770good morning11:02
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keesjanybody good a graphics?11:08
c0ffeetigert i heard11:09
keesjI want a nice image to create something like this or
keesjyes tigert is pretty good :p11:09
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JaffaMorning, all11:15
koenhey Jaffa11:15
* zuh grins at "magrathea" and "mordor" (I know a couple of other machines named like that ;)11:21
zuhI tend to use the latter theme in my naming11:21
zuhEvery time I need to come up with a name, I go and get my copy of the Silmarillion which has a nice index to browse in the end... :P11:22
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BlackholdI just have installed the maemo mapper11:35
Blackholdbut it don't works11:35
BlackholdI need some place to donwload the maps11:35
BlackholdI founded one, but don't works11:36
Blackholdis the etc.11:36
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keesjmaddler/Jaffa how can I upload files to the blog?11:43
Jaffakeesj: I've been wondering that. No idea.11:44
Jaffazulla: shoot11:44
keesjperhaps you need som blogging tool?11:44
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maddlerkeesj: here...12:07
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maddlerkeesj, Jaffa: you should see an "upload" tab inside your blogs' admin area...12:09
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keesjI don't see it12:10
keesjI want to upload an image12:10
keesjand colored source code is that  possible ? the <code> tag does not even preverse the indenting12:11
Jaffakeesj: use <pre> to preserve indenting12:12
Jaffamaddler: only tabs are: Write, Posts, Categories, Blog settings, Antispam, Files, My profile, Tools. No obvious "Upload" under "Files", either.12:13
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maddlerJaffa: "Files"12:24
maddlerfrom inside "Files" you can upload12:24
maddlerdamn... I was frightened N800 usb port wasn't working! I just pluged in the wrong cable! :D12:25
keesjmaddler: I don't see where12:26
maddlerkeesj: after opening the File tab...12:26
maddleryou should see a "Quick upload" button...12:27
maddleris it there?12:27
keesjand it is called files on my machine12:27
maddlerlet me check permissions...12:27
keesjyes please :)12:27
keesjI need to spread the word12:28
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maddlerkeesj: check now...12:35
keesjI can see the upload button , but I have2 keesj directories and one Notices12:36
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fish <- which gps mouse would you buy for (especially for maemo, but i want to use it on my laptop too)12:43
nomisfish: I use the RBT-3000, which also has standalone-logging facilities. It works, but is not really slim.12:45
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maddlerfish: Holux 236 or 24012:45
maddler236 should be priced under 90 eur.12:46
keesjmaddler: will a more thing cut the text for the preview or is it something else?12:47
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maddleryes :)12:48
fishnomis: well, standalone logging is nice...12:48
nomisfish: it is not the latest Sirf Chip though.12:49
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fish <- they look nice too.. both have standalone logging13:07
fishbut they dont have sirf but something compatible...13:07
nomisfish: plus I know that there is Linux-Software for the RBT-3000 - I helped writing it  :)13:09
fishnomis: i thought this gps bluetooth is pretty generic? for what do you need a special software?13:10
nomisfish: GPS bluetooth runs via Bluetooth serial profile. If you receive the standard NMEA sentences everything is fine. However, logging functionality is not standardized in any way afaik.13:11
fishnomis: ah okay...13:11
Juhazthe basic functionality is generic, but some chipsets have extra features, and accuracy, etc obviously varies by implementation13:11
fish <- that looks pretty good..13:13
Juhazwhat are you planning on using it for?13:13
fishwell, primaly for playing around with it ;)13:15
fishi want to use it for my n770 but also on my laptop.. and something like logging would be very nice to have13:15
fishif there is some device which can display your position that would be very nice too but i think that would be much more expensive13:17
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Juhazwell, for playing around it probably doesn't matter and they indeed are pretty generic13:19
fishwell, it must run on linux, thats very important13:20
fishbut it looks like the wbt-100 or wbt-200 is a good choice for that.. it speaks NMEA and gpsbabel supports the logging stuff13:22
tigertkeesj: tango-project has some SVG icons of monitors13:23
maddlerkeesj: reading your post on sounds interesting... :D13:23
maddlertigert: I had some troubles with theme-cacher...13:24
tigertor ask on #tango13:24
tigertmaddler: oh?13:24
maddlerafter installing it at first theme wasn't applied to keyboard...13:24
maddlerthen the theme applied theme to the keyboard was the "previously selected" theme...13:25
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maddlerthen... after some back and forth among various themes everything is fixed...13:25
keesjtigert: thanks13:27
maddlerbtw... plamkton is a wonderful theme!!!13:29
keesjmaddler: I had comment that the reply preview was unreadable, can I change the stylesheet somewhere?13:29
tigertmaddler: thanks13:30
tigertpeople are liking it a lot13:30
tigertI need to fix the remainign bugs13:30
tigertand I want to try a version with less paddings13:30
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kkitoisnt pixel doubling running on the n800?13:32
kkitoimpossible to do a 400x240 to fullscreen on n800?13:33
kkitokulve, :_(. do you know where the new maemo for n800 will be released?13:38
kkitowhen xD13:38
kulveno idea13:40
kkitowell i made a cps2emu, gngeo, and quake2 ports to n800, but in full resolution they run slow, and setting the resolution to 400x240 they has good performance but the image is so tinny on the screen, double pixel support is a must have!13:42
kkitoi dont know why nokia didnt implement lower native resolutions for multimedia and games13:43
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kulvethere is only one native resolution for lcd13:47
kulvebut is there another way to set the pixel doubling?13:48
[mbm]might not be a hardware scaler13:51
keesjwhat is Movial Carousel UI13:52
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zuhIt's a demo UI concept we're hacking on (though that name is a working name that was already abandoned...)13:55
zuhI'd tell you more but I'd have to kill you ;)13:55
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tigertyou'd have to attend the conference I guess13:56
tigertaccording to google13:57
keesjthat is where I get my information from ,13:57
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keesjMovial Carousel UI: As open as maemo, as cool as iPhone13:57
keesjas cool as maemo as open as iPhone13:58
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keesjno way , if I go to brasil, hope to do other stuff :p13:59
* zuh . o O ( I can't believe Sampo actually submitted that punchline... )14:00
JaffaSo, we're claiming Maemo's open now :)14:00
VeggenJaffa: *is* fairly open.14:04
JaffaAlthough an iPhone-like UI library (mmm, Canola) would be cool14:05
VeggenThey're not totally there yet, but the things open source, they release source for, and they do releases API and developer docs, although could always do more.14:05
VeggenAll in all, I'd say fairly open.14:05
Veggento be a phone vendor, extremely open ;P14:05
* zulla has submitted a "dream scenario" to the maemo-developers maemo list and wonders if it's too naive...14:06
zullaVeggen: Yes, but it could be more open, still.14:06
zullaVeggen: If I understood Harald Welte of correctly, the current release policy of Maemo isn't exactly GPL compliant.14:07
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zullaVeggen: But I could be wrong. And yes, I'm extremely happy ith what Nokia did so far, so I'm not complaining here.14:07
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* zuh would take a binary blob for the PowerVR any day if it gives a +20fps fullscreen hw-accelerated cairo-goodness...14:10
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robtaylorzuh: and it means using 2.4 and your kernel crashing regularly?14:11
robtaylors/it/if it/14:11
suihkulokkizuh: i think it14:12
keesjrobtaylor: yes , I would,14:12
suihkulokkiit's a great if. MBX isn't afaik designed for 800x480 displays14:12
konttoriIs it just me or is the VBA running really slow on N800?14:13
zuhrobtaylor: Given the context (N800), it would implicitly mean a 2.6 version of the drivers naturally14:15
zuhrobtaylor: And since this is fantasy world talk anyway, it wouldn't crash!14:15
robtaylorheh :)14:15
zuhAnd my device boots ~once a day anyway so if it wouldn't exeed that... :P14:16
zullakonttori: yes, vba is really slow on my n800. But it ain't really fast on my x86 laptop, either, so I'm not surprised.14:17
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bergieX-Fade: ping14:17
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kkitozulla, vba?14:18
konttorivisual boy advance14:18
kkitoah ko... that emu is not optimized14:18
kkitoi think that there arnt a good gba emu optimized for arm devices14:19
kkitoalthought gngeo and cps2emu runs fine14:19
konttoriYeah. ngage ran snes emu at full speed (well, almost full), so perhaps someone could port that to maemo.14:19
konttorikkito: isn't there a good one for the gp2x?14:19
kkitothere arent a good gba emu for the gp2x14:20
konttoriYeah, noticed:
zuhrobtaylor: And, although the official word on their site is "no plans", I would find it pretty hard to believe that Imagination Technologies would just go "2.4 is good enough for everyone"  and pretend that 2.6 doesn't exist... Maybe it's just that nobody paid for the 2.6 drivers yet ;)14:21
konttoriI just figured they guys would have the incentive to focus on optimizing such a emu14:21
konttorithey guys... those guys even14:22
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kkitoi submit a bug report related to the powervr on the maemo bugzilla14:23
tigerthi konttori14:24
tigertbeen a while :)14:24
Toma-Ive got a nokia 770 in the mail.. is it good for watching videos? :>14:24
konttoritigert: yeah. Been quite buys fixing my parents new flat. ... and working.14:25
tigertkonttori: ok14:25
tigertkonttori: saw the theme? :)14:25
konttoriI haven't even had the time to do anything on my N800 ... not even install apps besides fbreader.14:25
tigertfinally got it done. now I need to do a 770 version14:25
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kulvekkito: it would be open gl ES, if anything. And I think there would be 2 separate issues. Kernel driver allowing access to powerVR MBX and the open gl ES stack14:26
konttoritigert: yeah, I saw that you had released it and saw the screencap. I haven't installed it yet though14:26
konttoriWill do now.14:26
tigertinstall cacher first14:26
tigertkeesj said he had some problems with it14:26
* tigert reads scrollback14:26
konttoriyeah. And theme maker now supports multiple templates and14:26
tigertno wait14:26
tigertit was maddler14:27
tigertthat had problems with theme caching14:27
tigertit seems sometimes certain apps do not switch the theme if they are running14:27
tigertso a reboot is a sure way to make everything switch14:27
konttorisounds a bit odd.14:28
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konttoriok, plankton installed, teting... looks really nice. Love it!14:30
konttoriat the very top, there is a light blue line going up until the part where the status bar applets are and continues after them. Looks slightly off. Hey, not like dissing the theme in any way, it's just suberb!14:33
X-Fadetigert: Are those 16 bits bands in your theme intentional?14:34
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bergieX-Fade: there is a CSS issue with the planet styles14:34
bergieit doesn't support multi-line titles14:34
robstertigert: plankton rocks. do you have a funky background to go with it?14:34
tigertX-Fade: no14:34
X-Fadetigert: Or is that because you did it in 32 bits?14:34
Toma-With Xsession forwarding via SHH can you run stuff like e17?14:34
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tigertX-Fade: I need to dither it14:34
tigertits a work in progress14:35
X-Fadetigert: Ah ;)14:35
X-Fadetigert: I didn't notice it before. Only at high brightness..14:35
kkitoif someone didnt see my quetoo port to the n800... :P14:35
tigertX-Fade: yea, I tried to hide it with the stripes14:35
tigertbut it didnt quite work14:35
tigertthe screen is a bit cranky on those14:35
X-Fadebergie: Do have an example page?14:36
konttorikkito: wicked! How's the control? works well?14:36
kkitokonttori, the demo runs faster than ingame14:36
tigertkkito: you should get a wiimote14:36
kkitoi must to set a lower resolution to be playable but is playable14:36
tigertand hook it up to this with bluetooth14:36
robtaylorkkito: very cool :)14:36
bergieX-Fade: nope, but a screenshot:
tigertand then you can aim with it?14:37
X-Fadebergie: I can't access anymore. So I can't help you guys out :(14:37
X-Fadebergie: Somebody put it behind password protection ;(14:37
bergieX-Fade: don't you have garage account?14:37
tigertmail ferenc and ask?14:38
kkitoi mapped the "gamepad" keys to the left/right/up/down keyboard keys, the view is controleld by mouse (touchscreen) and you fire with the fullscreen button, you can jumo making a "click" (tapping on the screen)...14:38
X-Fadebergie: Ah duh :)14:38
X-FadeThat worked ;)14:38
konttorikkito: resolution isn't that important. q2... man... cool. Someone should port OGL to N800 so we could have accelerated Q2.14:38
X-FadeStill weird though :)14:38
konttorikkito: controls sound just the best you can get on n80014:38
X-Fadetigert: Do we want multiline titles or should we hide them?14:39
keesjkkito: wow14:39
X-Fadetigert: Everything that doesn't fit on the first line, I mean.14:40
tigertX-Fade: I think it should just wrap ok if needed?14:42
tigertand we can make the font smaller too14:42
tigertto make them fit better, it does not need to be that large14:42
X-Fadetigert: Yeah, that would be ok..14:42
tigerthm. gmail is open for everyone now14:44
etrunkokkito: is it using SDL?14:51
zuhkkito: And most importantly, where do we get it?-)14:52
konttorit3 was pretty harsh on n800. Not enough ad fees from nokia, I believe ;)
keesjit looks so fast, I just can't believe it14:53
valtsukonttori: I'll release vincent this week14:54
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valtsukonttori: it's software ogl es stack, so it's not accelerated14:55
konttorivaltsu: sorry for my ignorance, but as I've been away from IT stuff, what is vincent?14:55
keesj ?14:55
konttoricool. does it support N800:s hardware acceleration?14:56
valtsufor that we need to get nokia to release a driver for the pover vr14:56
Guardiann800 has no hardware acceleration right ?14:57
valtsuit has but it's disabled14:57
zuhGuardian: No driver for one14:57
Guardianwhich kind of hardware acceleration is it ?14:57
konttorizuh: Is nokia able to provide such a driver without paying extra to somebody?14:57
valtsudunno if that pover vr would conflict with epson14:58
zuhkonttori: no14:58
valtsukonttori: no14:58
valtsuI wonder why they don't sell the driver as add on14:58
valtsuthat way people who are interested in it would get it14:58
valtsuand then we maybe would see some games/apps using it and more people could by it14:59
zuhAnd at least officially there is no PowerVR driver for 2.6 kernels14:59
suihkulokkinot to mention nobody even knows if the chip gives anykind of usefull performance at 800x480.. afaik the chip is designed for qvga displays14:59
konttorizuh: so, probably we won't be seeing the driver at all. Is the price public information (the price range that nokia might have to pay per device)?14:59
zuhkonttori: Dunno...14:59
valtsusuihkulokki: it would be definetely faster than any software stack14:59
kulveI asked about this from imagination tech and they said they are in a middle discussions. But that could have been pretty PR talk..15:00
keesjstill what kind of framerates does the q2 game render in this full screen mode?15:00
valtsubut anyway I did package the vincent already but I need to get my ass to london so I'll probably create a garage project on sunday15:01
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kulvewell, the phrase was "[we] are actively discussing this issue"15:01
valtsukeesj: with 770 you can use pixel doubling15:01
konttorivaltsu: cool anyway. Does it runn well on low poly stuff in fullscreen?15:01
valtsucube rotating with texturing ~72 fps15:02
konttoricool. downloading...15:02
valtsu~52 in 770 but then of course that supports pixel doubling so full screen is the same15:03
kulvevaltsu: btw. It seems that the X doesn't refresh more that 20fps15:03
valtsukulve: yes, but you need to get fps high so that you can put more polys on it15:04
valtsuthat cube has 12 polys15:04
valtsukonttori: you need to run it with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./gtk-test"15:05
valtsukonttori: or something15:05
X-Fadebergie: Ok, I have committed a fix for the title problem.15:05
valtsuand the full screen is broken on 800 because of the pixel doubling15:05
konttorivaltsu: got it working. cool.15:06
konttorivaltsu: was working just by chmodding15:06
konttorialthough grass is missing. penguin works though15:06
bergieX-Fade: works, thanks!15:06
valtsuhopefully that was the semi working version ;)15:07
valtsukonttori: there is a menu where you can change the texture15:07
bergieX-Fade: BTW, would you mind if I copy this planet style to make a more generic "midgard powered planet" template?15:07
X-Fadebergie: Sure, images have been done by tigert though. So if he's ok with it.15:08
keesjit works on my n80015:08
JaffaHmm, must resist sarcasm on maemo-users: "which is more recent, version or version 3.xxxx?"15:09
keesj2.2 is more recent in time15:10
kkitovaltsu, did you compile the egl lib for the 770 or for the n800 ?15:10
keesjvaltsu: will the performance remain the same for alpha textures?15:10
valtsukkito: it should work on both15:10
konttoriimgtech makes it sound like they even don't have linux drivers for 2.6:
valtsukkito: it depends on what version is there as I built one with n800 cflags too15:11
valtsukeesj: dunno15:11
robsterkonttori: i don't think they do.15:11
kkitovaltsu, but if it is compiled with the hw floating point support perhaps it has more fps with the n80015:12
kulvekkito: I think vincent won't benefit from those15:12
valtsuvincent uses jit and has some own float -> fixed trasnformations so difference is pretty minimal15:12
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konttoriso, even if nokia would have paid the dosh, there wouldn't be any drivers for quite a while. Or is there something new on the subject?15:12
valtsuall math is done on fixed15:12
kkitoit is optimized for arm?15:13
kulvearmv5 iirc15:14
keesjand 16bpp :p15:14
kulvebut not for armv615:14
valtsuyeah, it should be somewhat faster with xscale because it supports intels optimized math library15:14
valtsukeesj: that linux implementation (X made by me) at least ;)15:14
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valtsubut anyway... I need to pack and get my ass to airport... see you15:15
konttorihave a good trip!15:15
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Jaffakeesj: they were talking about product images, not Maemo releases.15:16
kkitovaltsu, but it is compiled with the armv5 flag or it's written with armv5 asm?15:17
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Guardiandid someone already come up with a script that installs the scratchbox virtual packages when installing bora manuall ?15:17
konttorikkito: I would imagine it's asm stuff.15:17
kulvevincent has some sort of code generator that creates armv5 asm15:18
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MoRpHeUzanybody had success using gstreamer to play stream from vlc ? I just could play using mplayer...16:08
robtaylorMoRpHeUz: do you know what the stream is? RTSP?16:08
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: http16:09
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robtaylorgst-launch-0.10 neon ! decodebin ! xvimagesink ?16:13
nomiscan someone with an N800 please try the following:16:14
nomisremove the "Sound" applet from the statusbar and then invoke the Sound Controlpanel and try to change the volume.16:14
robtayloror, more accurately gst-launch-0.10 neonhttpsrc uri=http://whatever  ! decodebin ! xvimagesink16:14
nomisDoes the volume actually change?16:14
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: was trying:  gst-launch-0.10 neon ! decodebin ! xvimagesink16:16
X-Fadenomis: remove applet? how?16:16
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MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: will try the last one you said...16:17
nomisX-Fade: In the "navigation" controlpanel, the second tab.16:17
X-Fadenomis: Ah duh, in navigation :)16:17
X-FadeHmm that disconnects wifi ;)16:18
X-Fadeduh :)16:18
X-FadeBut then the volume control doesn't work indeed...16:18
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: didnt work again...freezes at: "Pipeline is PREROLLING ..."16:19
X-Fadenomis: I got a 'connected to xxxx' banner once. Can be just a coincidence..16:20
X-FadeBut volume control doesn't work when you remove the sound icon..16:20
robtaylorMoRpHeUz: sure the stream is valid?16:20
robtaylorMoRpHeUz: and what format video is in the stream?16:21
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: using mpeg1 as encap. mode, with mp1v for video and mpga for audio, I can play on mplayer...16:21
robtaylorMoRpHeUz: you'll have to read up on gst-inspect and gst-launch and have a play around16:23
robtaylorits strange decodebin doesn't figure it out tho16:23
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: yeah..that's what I'm doing but without success =(16:23
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nomisX-Fade: thanks, that is the volume-related behaviour what I am seeing as well. I just don't get it - looks like a real bug.16:25
X-Fadenomis: I think they de-register the volume dbus signals?16:26
nomisX-Fade: I have not yet seen any dbus-stuff related to volume. For now I just see gconf stuff.16:27
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X-FadeAnyway, I think you found a real bug ;)16:27
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MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: now it worked on my machine but not on n80016:37
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robtaylorMoRpHeUz: ah, must the be mpeg1 codec the n800 uses16:39
waiteANyone know how long is down for?16:40
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: I could play using the same options on vlc using n800's mplayer....but not it's media player16:40
Toma-Which is better, VNC or ssh X forwarding?16:45
wumpusvnc is more suited to slower networks16:46
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wumpusand if the connetion drops, the programs don't close16:46
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wumpusso I'd say VNC16:46
Toma-ahh k. so on a highspeed wifi ssh would be better?16:46
wumpusyou mean X16:47
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konttoriI'd say vnc all the way. Works on all platforms and is easy to setup.16:47
wumpusyou'd still tunnel VNC over ssh I suppose?16:47
Toma-well, yeh16:47
Toma-ahh right16:47
Toma-pity theres no NX client :<16:47
wumpusthrough the extra layer of cryptography probably slows it down very much16:48
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wumpushaven't tried yet16:48
Toma-someone tried porting... looks like licencing stoppped it16:48
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MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: n800's gstreamer doesnt have any demux for mpeg1 audio+video ? or mpeg ts ?16:54
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robtaylorMoRpHeUz: no idea, gst-inspect and see17:01
robtaylorMoRpHeUz: you might need to build fluendo's mpegts plugin17:02
keesj+keesj: they were talking about product images, not Maemo releases.17:08
JaffaFM radio instructions for N800:
keesjwhat product images?17:11
kkitoJaffa, :)17:11
keesjwhat a scoop!17:13
konttoriwhy wasn't this on launch day?17:15
X-FadeThe deb is only a few hours old :)17:15
konttoriYeah, but it would have been good pr stuff for launch day as well.17:15
glassssyeah strange to not include such feature on launch day or on the product box17:16
zuhToo bad it doesn't pick up anything here... :/17:16
keesjand now we can start searching for the gsm chip17:16
keesjit really looks like an fm radio17:17
X-FadeIt really works though :)17:17
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zuhX-Fade: Did you find a channel with it?-)17:18
X-Fadezuh: Yep.17:18
X-FadeNeed a headphone for reception. But plays via speakers..17:19
* zuh wonders where to attach the antenna... ;)17:19
X-Fadeheadphone == antenna17:19
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X-FadeJust like every other nokia phone17:19
waitezuh the headphones act as antenna17:19
tzzso now we wait for the GUI, and bitch about how it doesn't have station bookmarks, right? :)17:19
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keesjwe have sound !17:19
X-Fadetzz: it has a gui..17:19
X-Fadetzz: You can even save presets..17:20
tzzthe applet, I know, I mean the official release17:20
tzzoh it does, damn it17:20
X-FadeIt has an applet and a full scren app ;)17:20
tzznothing to complain about17:20
* inz listens to YleX on his N80017:20
tzzinz: I tried zsh and it didn't finish the postinstall scripts.  They use zsh themselves.  I had to manually edit them, else dpkg was hosed.17:21
X-FadeRadio538 here ;)17:21
tzzinz: I'm not sure what was wrong, didn't have time to investigate this morning.17:22
inztzz, yeah, I had the same problems17:23
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inztzz, if you find out, what's wrong, please tell me, so I can update the package17:23
keesjyou nokia people must has so much fun waiting for people to find this17:23
kkitonice n800 can replace my car radio :P17:23
keesjdo you think I would support rms and such?17:24
keesjtrafic information?17:24
X-FadeSo.. Tomorrow they secretly add PowerVR support? :)17:24
tzzinz: I will check it out.  I need my BT keyboard to do real work, here at work I don't have one.17:24
X-Fadekeesj: TMC?17:24
X-FadeThat would be sweet :)17:25
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konttoriwith this radio, I might consider using Nokias virtual radio.17:26
konttoriThey should port that.17:26
konttoriDoH Visual radio17:27
nomisHmm, no RDS support...  :)17:27
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X-Fadebtw did you guys notice the Valentine Theme?17:31
nomisX-Fade: are there screenshots?17:31
X-FadeMoment ;)17:32
matt_cmy N800 seems to be in this bizarre reboot cycle.17:32
Molagiinz whats the frequency for ylex?17:32
X-FadeIt is pretty pink :)17:32
Jaffanomis: yea, damnit - I want RDS ;-)17:33
keesjX-Fade: sorry I was not referring to Stallman but  to RDS17:33
inzMolagi, depends where you are17:34
matt_chrm, are there any tricks to getting the battery out of the N800?17:35
X-FadeOMFG it is pink :)17:35
inzMolagi, 91,917:36
Molagiok thx17:36
* nomis does not bother downloading.17:36
Robot101matt_c: take the back off then just whack the device (battery down) into your hand17:36
Robot101matt_c: battery flies out17:36
keesjX-Fade: how did you end up with two radio applets on the desktop?17:36
matt_cRobot101: nice, thanks.  It seems to be lodged in there pretty well, which is a good thing unless you want to remove it :)17:36
X-Fadekeesj: One if FM and the other is streaming..17:37
Robot101(well, cup your hand so you stop the device but the battery wants to keep on going, don't just hit your hand repeatedly :D)17:37
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JaffaEugh, pink not good.17:38
matt_cRobot101: ha.  Yeah, that did the trick, now to figure out why it keeps rebooting.17:38
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X-FadeHmm the TEA5761 has RDS support :)17:40
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JaffaX-Fade: interesting :)17:40
X-FadeAh no it doesnt..17:41
X-FadeThat is the 576417:41
ferulodude, it has a FM Radio :)17:41
maddlerJaffa: where those 55 views on your post come from? are you cheating? :D17:43
* maddler wonders if we've got something else to discover here...17:43
Jaffamaddler: posted a link on ITT ;-)17:44
Jaffamaddler: Forgot to check if you'd written about it already17:44
maddlerno problem... :D17:45
maddlerI'm just happy if more and more people know about maemopeople.prg17:45
maddlerI really don't care about being first...17:45
X-FadeHmm FM radio and streaming auto at the same time also works ;)17:46
keesjfm radio will probably no use cpu righ?17:46
glassssit's cpu free unless it's done very stupidly.. or in some ultra clever fashion that saves components that i fail to see17:47
maddlerkeesj: CPU consumption should be ~0%17:48
X-FadeAnybody an idea why OMAP McSPI is almost always in top? Using .5%-1.5% cpu orso..17:50
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maddlerJaffa: I should find a way to block anonymous comments...17:55
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Jaffamaddler: you got one?17:56
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maddlerI'm getting some spam17:57
maddlerand i need to manually delete...17:57
maddlerdisabling anon comments would help keeping robots outside...17:58
keesjmaddler: those are just people who dislike you , my comments are currently open (I think, but I have no problem yet)17:59
maddlerkeesj: hehehe... no... is some porn spam...17:59
maddlerkeesj: only a few right now...18:00
keesjso it's not realle spam :p18:00
maddlerbut getting 10s would be annoying...18:00
maddlerkeesj: hahaha...18:00
Jaffamaddler: ok, so it's people who *like* you. A lot.18:01
kkitodo you know where i can find airodumo and company n800 packages?18:04
keesjthe airodump stuff?18:04
maddlerJaffa: hahaha... yeah! :D18:04
kkitokeesj, yes18:04
maddlerI should repackage it for N800... should give a try to MUD maybe...18:05
keesjtry contacting maddler@maddler.net18:05
kkitokeesj, thx18:06
*** konttori has joined #maemo18:06 Hmm, that sounds familiar.18:07
JaffaOoh, look - a maddler here :)18:07
maddleryep... that could be me... :D18:08
matt_chas anyone experienced a reboot loop on their N800?  I can't seem to find a way to get mine to boot now.18:10
Jaffamatt_c: try disabling the lifeguard reset with the Linux flasher18:11
X-Fadematt_c: Did you try to disable liveguard-reset?18:11
sbaturziois there a way to talk with Nokia assistance in Finland? A friend sent his N800 in assistance and he has no info about it18:11
matt_cJaffa/X-Fade: thanks,. will try.18:11
X-Fadejaffa's spelling is better ;)18:11
wumpusmatt_c: you didn't install the busybox update, didy ou?18:12
wumpusmine got in a reboot loop after that and the only way I got out of it was by reflashing the device, then enabling r&d mode18:12
matt_cwumpus: aha! that's it.18:13
matt_cit's weird though since it was fine for several hours afterward.  Time to find my USB cable.18:13
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wumpusthe busybox update has been messing up people's n800's for quite a while18:15
wumpusI wonder why they don't remove it18:15
wumpusseems like something anyone that is new to maemo should fall for :p18:15
keesjJaffa, funny I don't even see in on  how is that possible?18:16
matt_cwumpus: it's sad that I fell for it then.18:17
partI thought busybox was already fixed18:19
Jaffakeesj: planet seems to have not updated recently.18:23
zullaJaffa: I have deb bora user - yet I cannot install fmradio.18:23
* sp3000 slaps the negative checkbox in the repo dialog18:24
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maddlerzulla: deb bora user18:27
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maddleryou are welcome...18:29
zullawhere the heck does this radio app come from?18:29
maddlerI'd say from Nokia, somehow...18:29
|tbb|_lol i was waiting for that18:30
|tbb|_waiting for tv on the go support :)18:31
zullatbb: I'd rather want to see DSP-accelerated video playback18:32
* zulla is dreaming of 800x480 @ 30fps video playback...18:32
* matt_c flashes.18:33
|tbb|_from the hardware it should be possible isnt it so ?18:33
Robot101zulla: actually that's not impossible even without the DSP18:33
Robot101zulla: it's tricky. sure, but might happen... ;)18:33
glasssstv would be ultra nice18:34
keesjyes , and jet propultion too18:35
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keesjthe n800 is a better flyer then the 770 (so I head)18:35
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matt_cwumpus: thanks again for the tip... looks like all is well after a reflash18:39
zuhkeesj: With the camera and the stand closed or open...?-)18:40
zuhI guess the stand would offer better grip for the throw...18:40
|tbb|_anyway to get fm working without headphones?18:41
konttorizulla: try the 400x480 resolution. Looks pretty stunning as well.18:42
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konttoriYou can use media converter to convert to that rez:
garrettwhat is the fmradio package for?18:44
konttorittb: there's no antenna. Thus you need headphones connected. There's icon at bottom left of the app taht you can use to switch to headphones and the speakers.18:44
garrettoh, I see, the forum link18:45
konttorigarrett: fm radio in N80018:45
garrettso can you use any headphones?18:45
keesjthe headphone that came with the device is a 3.5 mm jack with 4 contact (one for the mic). I don't know if a normal jack will work , I hope so18:47
keesjJaffa: "they" control the media and every time Quim Gil posts it stays there for hours18:48
konttoriI think any normal headset will work. The ground is probably used as the antenna18:48
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|tbb|if the fmradio not consumed cpu power then you could hear many hours, isnt it?18:52
lle2zuh: with 770 best I've seen was around 45 meters or so, I think.18:53
mgedmindoes the mythical fmradio really exist?18:55
zullakeesj: They could give Quim Gil the headline spot and still update Planet.Maemo...18:56
|tbb|keesj: why the output volume on the internal speaker while listen to fm isnt that loud as u hear internet radio18:58
|tbb|any idea?18:58
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zuhlle2: Hmm, that's pretty much. I think that's over my rubberboot throwing record (and those things can fly pretty well with the right spin and wind conditions)...18:59
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garretthow do you start fmradio once it is installed? (I don't see it in the menus)19:01
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|tbb|garrett: via home applet19:01
kkitogarrett, add the widget to the desktop19:01
|tbb|i remember reading thougtfix report after he opened the n800 and he says there isnt a easteregg in the n800 i gave my hope up for a fm radio :)19:03
lle2zuh: regrettably our measuring technique was entirely unscientific. but they did fly really well, a bit like a boomerang, depending on the spin19:04
garrettwow, this is cool19:05
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|tbb|i aggree19:05
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maddlerAndy80: heya...19:06
Andy80anyone experience this error launching " start" ? You can find the complete output here:
Andy80hi maddler :)19:07
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zuh|tbb|: If it's true that it's on the same chip that the bt stuff it could explain the mistake he made...19:08
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garrettit's a bit of a pain to select the frequency19:09
garrettbut I guess once you finally have it set up, having radio presets is nice19:09
maddlergarrett: yep... being able to directly imput it would have been nicer...19:09
|tbb|garrett way to go, use your scratchbox19:09
garretthmm, speaking of playlists, it seems my media player playlists were wiped out19:10
[mbm]hmm fmradio?19:11
|tbb|btw, setup alarm with radio would also be nice19:11
garrett|tbb|: yeah19:12
garrett[mbm]: yup19:12
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garrett[mbm]: it's pretty neat19:12
[mbm]garrett: some sort of streaming via internet thing? (don't think these have fm hardware)19:12
garrettjust needs a better UI (;19:12
garrett[mbm]: there's already streaming via Internet19:12
garrettthis is actual FM radio19:12
garrettyou need headphones plugged in to make it work, but you can switch to internal speakers too19:12
garrett(in the app)19:13
|tbb|i hope plugin a fmtransmitter via  headphone jack will also work as antenna19:14
matt_cdoes that app get put in the 'Extras' folder?19:14
garrettmatt_c: I think you can only launch it via a widget on your desktop19:15
garrett"applet" even19:15
matt_cgarrett: oh nice.19:15
garrettso no menu entry it seems19:15
garrettbut you can click on the little wrench icon to launch the full-blown app19:15
maddlermatt_c: no... it's (only) an applet...19:15
zuhA .desktop would be trivial to produce though, wonder why it doesn't have one...19:16
maddlerthat would have been nice to see it in multimedia player...19:16
[mbm]which repository? can't find it19:16
Andy80I've found another hacking! On 770, if you execute: "cat coffe_dust && water > /sys/platform/hidden_dev/coffee_machine" you can get warm coffee out from mmc slot :D19:16
garrettmaddler: yeah, no doubt19:16
garrett[mbm]: deb bora user19:16
|tbb|andy this hack is old even the coffee doesnt smell good :)19:17
Andy80maddler: maybe they (nokia) planned to release an os 2007 upgrade with radio feature :)19:17
maddlerAndy80: yes, that makes sense... but... who knows :)19:17
Andy80anyway... is there a way to fix those bugs on maemo 2.2? else I'll come back to 2.1, at least it was usable! :(19:19
|tbb| btw. is it possible to hack the built in picture viewer so that it supports slideshow? after the source is available19:19
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maddlertigert: you remember the hildon-theme-cacher stuff I told you earlier?19:19
maddlertigert: I've something odd here again... after a reboot I have a kinda mixed up theme... with pieces from pink theme and pieces from plankton theme...19:20
maddlertigert: I'll send you a mail later...19:20
sp3000"may contain traces of seafood"19:21
[mbm]wish someone would remove the broken busybox .. it's preventing me from using the magic:sys package19:21
|tbb|the biggest bug for me for now is that u can never trust  the battery status indicator, that really sucks19:21
maddler|tbb|: indeed... but I got used to that... :)19:22
maddleror at least I'm never *too* far from a charger..19:22
maddlermy USB charger saved my life more than once by the way...19:22
|tbb|usbcharger for the n800 ?19:23
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|tbb|but if u arent stay on a place for more than 2hours you cant fully charge your device :( i have a car adapter but also i dont drive more than a hour for normal. I dont know if half charging the battery will harm my battery19:25
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maddler|tbb|: an USB to power plug...19:30
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maddlerkinda useful...19:30
maddlerI use it for my E61 as well...19:30
jsunhi -19:30
|tbb|will it harm the battery life when u charge it only half an hour or if u charge it before  battery runs out?19:32
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maddler|tbb|: nope...19:33
* [mbm] wonders how weird it'd be using an ipod+itrip and a n800 with fmradio19:33
matt_cthe FM tuner on my N-Gage was a killer feature for playing tony hawk while listening to Marketplace on NPR :)19:35
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[mbm]well, I just mean the n800 is perfectly capable of playing a few G of mp3s (depending on your SD card)19:36
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[mbm]so there's some irony involved19:37
maddlertime to go home here...19:38
maddlersee you all later...19:38
jsuna dumb question - if I make a maemo pkg, how can hook it up so that it will appear in the application menu?19:41
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mgedminjsun: you need to create a .desktop file19:44
jsunmgedmin, create this file inside the package?19:45
mgedminsee the tutorial at
jsunok, I will take a look.19:45
mgedminthe package should put your .desktop file somewhere in /usr/...19:45
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etrunko/usr/share/applications/hildon precisely19:51
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jsunmgedmin, I am a little confused by app.desktop file and Section: field19:53
tzzetrunko: did you see my e-mail about evince on the N800?  I found that the problem was '#' in the file name, not the .cbz extension.  I happened to have two separate series with '#' in the name unfortunately.19:53
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jsundoes Section: field also control the menu placement?19:53
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mgedminSection field in debian/control influences the application installer only19:54
tzzetrunko: I still think rar/zip should be handled as cbr/cbz but that's easy to do with a rename.19:54
mgedmindebian/postinst, IIRC, can influence the menu placement19:54
jsunmgedmin, Thanks.19:55
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Andy80if I can compile and run an application using SDK_PC configuration... this mean that it can also compile and run on SDK_ARMEL target?19:58
* [mbm] gets sick of the filemanager being cute and does an ln -s / ~/MyDocs/root19:59
nomisAndy80: likely.19:59
nomisAndy80: you're then unable to produce packages for the device itself though.19:59
keesjmaller: how about registering maemotemple20:00
Andy80nomis: why? If I can compile for SDK_ARMEL, whay I cannot produce a .deb for N770/800  too?20:00
keesjmaller: how about registering maemogod20:00
nomisAndy80: ah, I was being unclear. If you want to avoid compiling on SDK_ARMEL you cannot create packages.20:01
Andy80nomis: no no, i WANT :) and I really hope that the "thing" I'm compiling for SDK_PC will compile on SDK_ARMEL too :)20:01
nomisAndy80: ok  :)20:02
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[mbm]hmm.. where's the home layout stored?20:05
zuhSomewhere under $HOME/.osso/ IIRC20:06
[mbm]hildon-home/applet_manager.conf under there20:07
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nomisok, anyone an idea what the volume-statusbar-applet does other than just setting the gconf-key for the volume?20:12
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keesjperhaps change the hardware volume or change the esd volume?20:15
etrunkotzz: haven't seen it20:16
nomisit is hard to imagine that something that important has been wired into the volume applet. Weird.20:16
etrunkotzz: when did you send it?20:17
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nomisthe brightness has something in the background that listens to changes of the gconf-key and sets the brightness accordingly.20:18
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tzzetrunko: 2 days ago, subject line "Re: [maemo-users] N800 as e-book reader"20:42
tzzetrunko: Message-ID: <>20:42
etrunkotzz: just a min20:43
etrunkotzz: got it..20:45
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etrunkotzz: what about the problem with files with '#' in the name?20:46
tzzetrunko: sorry for the delays, I'm back.20:49
tzzetrunko: they don't show up, that's all.20:49
tzze.g. a_#1of5.cbz20:49
tzzit might be a file selector problem, I don't know20:49
tzzanyhow, the point was that evince can open cbz files, so thank you for releasing the preliminary N800 package.20:50
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tzzif you want me to test anything, I'll gladly do it.20:51
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kulvedpkg - warning: downgrading gstreamer0.10-plugins-base from 0.10.9-osso14 to 0.10.9-osso13.tk1.20:54
kulvennhhg. Why the sources are not up-to-date.. :/20:55
keesjperhaps the build system is just very complex?20:55
kulvewell, I think they still should put the same version of binaries and sources to their apt-repositories20:57
tigertmaddler, notee that plankton ddoes not contain a oopera theme20:58
tigertso that stays probably whatever you had before20:59
etrunkotzz: thank you21:02
etrunkotzz: i'll check this problem with filenames21:02
nomistigert: may I bug you about three little problems of plankton?21:03
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tzzetrunko: no problem.  I'll be away for a while, e-mail if you need to ask anything.21:04
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etrunkotzz: roger that21:05
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s-ndh-calp: there?21:19
konttoriI still haven't bought a bid SD, so my long video experience is limited, but it seems like people are having problems playing long videos on media player on N800. Does anybody know what gives or does anyone have had such experiences?21:24
konttoriOr am I asking in the wrong forum, as developers never have time to watch videos?21:25
mgedminI watched a recoded 2-hour movie on my 770 once21:25
Takmy fiancee *mainly* uses her 770 for watching reencoded movies21:27
tigertnomis: sure21:27
MoRpHeUzanybody has gst-ffmpeg compiled for n800 ?21:27
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tigertnomis: combobox, topright corner on home view and vkbd weird widgets? :)21:27
tigertnomis: or something else?21:27
alps-ndh-c: yo21:28
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s-ndh-calp: is this hildon-1 branch fully functional?21:32
[mbm]konttori: I've watched videos on it; plays fine but you'll probably need to transcode since mplayer doesn't have the power to play most of the modern codecs21:32
konttoriyeah, but the media player, not mplayer21:32
alps-ndh-c: no idea, literally all i have tested is that example.cs21:32
konttoriSeems like default video player has some jamming problems with long files. every now and then.21:32
s-ndh-calp: i tried to port this banner_example thing, but the progress banner didnt let me change the fraction21:33
[mbm]konttori: the media player applet hardly plays any formats .. mplayer gives you more codecs21:33
s-ndh-cother the other banners seemed to work21:33
konttoriI am mainly interested in this from the perspective of checking whether the problem is in video files media converter produces / whether I could improve the situation somehow by fixing media converter21:34
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[mbm]oh, dunno, never used the converter or the builtin media player21:34
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[mbm]watched a few xvids in mplayer although you really have to tweak the mplayer settings to get a decent fps with xvid21:35
s-ndh-calp: but the sourcecode of whats deployed to the devices yet seems to be much harder to be bound with gapi than this hildon-1 thing21:35
nomistigert: combobox and topright and (something new :)  the speaker icon in a horizontal volumebar (its OK in the vertical)21:35
* nomis apparently needs to look at the vkbd :)21:36
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tigertnomis: :)21:36
tigertnomis: yea, stuff I just need to fix21:36
tigertnomis: or get the svg and fix it?21:36
tigerttoo bad patching SVG is hard21:36
tigertI wonder if patch can fix it21:36
nomisprobably kind of possible, but I lack shading experience in inkscape.21:38
tigertalso ideas are welcome21:38
tigertits still a bit of a mix of styles21:38
tigertI am wanting to make it more clean, simple21:39
tigertbut the buttons are kinda hard 3D still etcetera21:39
alps-ndh-c: yeah, i removed a lot of parser hacks and api fixup that i used to have for the old hildon21:39
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alpin this respect i'm just following advice from MDK that hildon-1 is the api worth targeting now21:40
s-ndh-ci see21:40
alptbh i haven't even checked which is on the device21:41
s-ndh-calp: i think someone uploaded the source of whats on the it2006 and it2007 images somewhere21:41
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konttorimbm: you might then want to check out using a converter beforehand. At least on my tests I could play very nicely 400x480 resolution video. Which looks stunning. At least when 768 bitrate or better is applied.21:42
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nomistigert: also something that I noticed: the gradient on the left side shows visible banding. Can Inkscape do the same dithering as gimp?21:44
nomistigert: and the bottom right edge of an application window is not rounded, while all others are.21:45
* nomis is awful at nitpicking :)21:45
s-ndh-cist bluetooth networking possibe with the n770?21:46
s-ndh-ci would like to write a software to control my favorite media player application via wlan and/or bluetooth21:46
tigertnomis: inkscape cannot dither21:48
tigertimagemagick can21:48
tigertI need to try that21:48
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guerbyFailed to fetch  MD5Sum mismatch22:00
guerbyAm I alone in seeing this error on apt-get update?22:00
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Guard][anevening maemo22:01
kaatisGuard][an, might be because of cache has old version of some file22:01
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kaatisguerby, ^22:02
guerbykaatis, cache on my N800 or on the server side?22:02
bazedoes anyone know where i can find people from the tinymail project?22:03
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kaatisguerby, i meant http proxy22:04
guerbykaatis, I don't use a proxy (direct internet)22:04
kaatisguerby, well you might still be behind transparent proxy22:05
kaatisat least that's only thing i can think of22:05
guerby/var/lib/apt/lists has a file with checksums22:06
kaatistry apt-get clean and try again22:07
guerbykaatis, W: Couldn't stat source package list bora/user Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ - stat (2 No such file or directory)22:07
guerbyE: Invalid operation clean22:07
guerbykaatis, nevermind, wrong command22:07
guerbykaatis, same message. cleaning /var/lib/apt/lists by hand is tempting...22:08
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guerbykaatis, touch /var/lib/apt/lists/ makes the error go away22:12
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guerbykaatis, could you look at
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guerbyand and check the sizes of Package ?22:15
guerbykaatis, they aren't the same for me22:15
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maddlerhmmm... could anyone try writing something starting with "zic*"?22:19
maddlerwith autocompletion I get: zicorp200401300290192822:20
guerbykaatis, frederic crozat reported the problem to maemo-users22:20
Taklol - you got an expiration date to go with that?22:20
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maddlertak... hehehe...22:34
maddlerno... and I'd need owner as well :D22:34
maddlerjust realized it coud have been a CC number...22:34
mgedminthat's a long password :)22:35
c0ffeeit's also a bit annoying that the keyboard auto-completes passwords :)22:36
maddlerwell... I wonder why it's in the default dictionary...22:37
maddlerc0ffee: yep, but unless you are writing in an hildonized field, how could it know it is a password?22:37
mgedminheh, heuristics based on "looks like a password"22:38
mgedminyou know, pet names, birth dates, "password1"22:38
mgedminI wonder what the autocompleter thinks about my sanity when I use vi with the virtual keyboard :-)22:38
c0ffeeyeah, it could have some noise filter22:39
c0ffeeor not learn words from non-hildon apps22:39
c0ffeeor forget the learned words from non-hildon apps when you close the app22:39
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maddlerhmmm... is there a way to look at all the words in a dictionary?22:39
c0ffeeyou mean besides cat? :)22:40
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maddlerwell... knowing where is the dictionary would be a nice start... ;)22:42
maddlerstorytelling to my daughter...22:44
mgedminsomewhere in ~/22:44
maddlermgedmin: thank you... :DDD22:44
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alpis there a built-in or working pptp client for the n800?22:49
nomisHmm. What is osso-mvi and is it open?22:57
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suihkulokkinomis: Master Volume Interface23:11
nomissuihkulokki: ah, do you know if this is supposed to be public?23:11
suihkulokkinomis: if it isn't, then it isn't. you can use alsa to control volume as well.23:12
nomisHm, ok.23:12
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kaatisguerby, also seem to be different size for me23:13
guerbykaatis, thanks for the check. They'll probably fix that tomorrow23:14
guerbyfmradio is really kewl23:15
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JaffaAnyone poked ferenc about garage not updating?23:25
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maddlernope... I thought it was you in chage of planet...23:27
maddlersince you answered my mail...23:28
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maddlerwife calling...23:30
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Takwhat's the deal with garage?23:44
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guerbyhmm any idea of where fmradio puts the defined radio list?23:44
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Jaffaguerby: gconf, I'd guess, or /home/user/.osso**radio/23:53
Jaffamaddler: he's now been poked23:54
guerbyto answer my own question: gconftool-2 -R /apps/maemo/fmradio23:55
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guerbyJaffa, do you know where is the file backup of gconf?23:55
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