IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-02-04

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pbrookCan menu items (foo.desktop files) point to shell scripts?00:31
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pbrookNever mind, I just found the dumb typo in teh filename.00:33
maddlerpbrook: there is an howto on maemo.org00:37
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KrnlKlinkHas anyone ever paired a 770 with a Motorola A1200? I have my provider specific connections setup and the phone looks like it connects but then the 770 errors out00:41
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kaatisKrnlKlink, a1200 is a linux phone, right? is it any good?00:51
KrnlKlinkkaatis: Yes, it is a great only problems with it are tethering it to a linux device via bluetooth and the lack of an obex server...there is a lot of hacking going on right now...I've just recently run a beta of a X11/GPE image which has great potential....check out believe that the motorola linux phones will be quickly ported to the openmoko framework00:59
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kaatisKrnlKlink, i see. thanks for the infos. i think that phone isn't sold anywhere in europe01:05
KrnlKlinkKaatis, I believe it may be called the a1200i01:05
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SetokI heard there's a new razr-style linux phone from motorola01:09
kaatisKrnlKlink, doesn't seem to be available with that name either. many brazilian sites in google results thou01:09
Setoklike newer than the a120001:09
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KrnlKlinkSetok, I think the E6 is a linux phone, as well as the MotoFone01:17
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tigertok. time to sleep01:33
maddlertigert: bye...01:34
tigert < some confusing finnish stuff for you :)01:34
maddlerhehehehe... thank you...01:34
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tigertI even think Nokia was involved somehow :)01:35
maddlertigert: hahahaha I know them!01:35
maddlerleningrad cowboys...01:35
tigertyea, they rock01:36
maddlerI should have their movie somewhere...01:36
tigertwhat was amazing is that it's the real russian red army choir that was touring with them01:36
tigertanyway, later! :)01:36
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maddlertigert: yep... I was amazed by that...01:38
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sricool.. FBreader works in maemo301:41
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srihi tigert :)01:41
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jwb_n800anyone have pine for the n800?02:03
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maddlerjwb_n800: not sure... but I think I saw it somewhere...02:11
maddlerjwb_n800: did you tried the "old" 770 version already?02:12
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jwb_n800maddler, no i cat find a repo with it02:12
jwb_n800I'm new to these things so i'm probably screwing up somewhere02:13
maddlertry here...02:17
jwb_n800maddler, ok thanks02:17
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maddlerjwb_n800: btw... I'd suggest using mutt instead...02:31
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JoshTriplettWhile experimenting with some Python code on my N800, I noticed that the window title had the name of my Python file in it.  When I called set_title on my HildonWindow, that title just got appended to the name of the python file.  How do I set the entire title?02:33
jwb_n800maddler, mutt on the n800?02:34
jwb_n800maddler, does it respond to taps?02:34
Sulismutt is command line and so is pine...i don't imagine either of them would respond to taps02:35
JoshTriplettSulis: Depends on the terminal; I think mutt in an xterm or similar will respond to the mouse.02:36
jwb_n800Sulis, pine supposedly does02:36
maddlerjwb_n800: never tried...02:36
Sulisah, yeah i guess it could do that02:36
jwb_n800JoshTriplett, i've used mutt in an osso-xterm over ssh.  No tap response02:37
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maddlerbtw... pine cannot be installed... missing dependencies...02:37
maddlercannot investigate right now...02:38
jwb_n800shoot.  That's ok. Thanks anyway02:38
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maddlerdamn... I can't understand why mountpoints are "changing"02:47
maddlerin /etc/fstab I have /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc102:47
maddlerbut mount reports /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc102:48
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maddlerisn't supposed mmc1 to be Internal SD?02:57
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JoshTriplettmaddler: No, internal sd shows up as mmc2.03:02
JoshTriplettjwb_n800: Perhaps osso-xterm doesn't implement the xterm mouse stuff.03:02
jwb_n800JoshTriplett, maybe not... Is there a different one available?03:03
JoshTriplettjwb_n800: Not that I know of.  You might try mutt in a standard xterm on a normal GNU/Linux box, and see if the mouse works there.03:04
JoshTriplettjwb_n800: Or gnome-terminal, or something like that.03:04
maddlerJoshTriplett: no... mine is mounted as mmc2...03:05
maddlerand can't understand *why*!03:05
maddlerI just tried rebooting only with internal SD...03:05
maddlerand it's mounted as MMC203:05
maddlermaybe I've been tweaking too much somewhere... :D03:06
maddlerbtw... the strange thing is that I have 2 partitions on each SD...03:06
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maddlerand none is mounted in accordance to what stated in fstab03:06
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Andy80I'm installin the maemo 2.2 SDK from scratch. I'm configuring the SDK_ARMEL target and I don't know which cputrasparency option select from the list. Available are:qemu-arm-0.7.0-sb2, qemu-arm-0.8.0-m2,qemu-arm-0.8.0-sb2, qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb2, qemu-armeb-0.8.1-sb2 ecc... which one do I have to choose?03:39
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maddlerAndy80: je m' vagg' a cocca`!03:42
maddlertranslation: I'd really go to bed!03:42
maddlerno! wait! found the floppy!03:43
maddlera piece of history!03:43
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maddlerbeside it's taking hours to copy on it...03:49
maddlerit takes less to burn a CD!03:49
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Andy80I got an error executing Xephyr. I start from outside the box, then from the box I execute: export DISPLAY=:2 then I execute: start but I get an error (I'll copy it somewhere)03:58
Andy80here's the error:
Andy80how can I fix it?04:00
maddlerok... bios update didn't fixed the issue...04:02
maddlerfolks... TTL for real now...04:02
maddlersee ya all...04:02
Andy80bye maddler04:04
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imawinarhmm, scratchbox multi boot cd for qemu08:56
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keesjHow i maemo pronounced?10:29
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keesjsorry it looks like i have pretty bad dns problem10:33
c0ffeea dns problem that causes a tcp connection to drop?10:34
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keesjyes, sorry that is not really possible. Irssi is still new to me10:41
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trenka_ssvb: got your n800?12:36
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ssvbtrenka: yes, got it about 2 hours ago, charging it for the first time right now :)12:41
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trenkacool twice :)12:47
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Andy80I got an error executing Xephyr. I start from outside the box, then from the box I execute: export DISPLAY=:2 then I execute: start but I get an error:   rebooting the PC the problem is not present anymore, but.... what happened exactly?14:34
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kulveAndy80: yout xephyr is not started with -ac?14:35
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kulvehmm.. actually it seems that it's trying to connect display 0.014:36
Andy80but I didn't change anything... this morning I did the same procedure...14:36
Andy80the script is the same14:36
kulveand it seems that you already have something running. Try "restart" instead of "start" usually..14:37 I mean...14:37
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kulvethose segmentations faults seems bad in anyway..14:37
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maddlerhey all14:58
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maddlerheya mgedmin15:05
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* maddler goes to physical life...15:30
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scriptdoes anyone else have issues with missing when using n700 packages on n800?15:57
nomisscript: I recently tried to install maemo-mapper on the n800, and it complained about a missing package, that could have been the same.16:07
scriptnomis: i don't think so, app installes fine but doesnt start because of missing library16:08
nomisno idea then.16:08
scriptunfortunately i have no n800 to test it16:08
scriptsome n800 users report the app as working, some complain about missing library16:08
tolouWhat app?16:09
scripttolou: vpnc-gui16:09
scripti just released beta version some days ago16:09
scriptmaybe i should donwload the bootstrap package and have a look at it ...16:11
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nomisdu, HildonHVolumeBar is not a MenuItem.16:17
nomisduh even.16:17
keesjdid somebody try the it2007 on the 770?16:20
nomisehm. Which is actually not a problem, since the stock MenuItem of course is a container.16:20
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Andy80I've finished writing a complete (updated and tested for maemo 2.2) howto (in italian language) that explain how to install and configure scratchbox, maemo 2.2 sdk, xephyr ecc... are you interested in linking it somewhere on maemo website?16:35
kenderAndy80, sure, any info is welcome16:36
Andy80kender: the howto is here:
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Andy80maybe I'll have to add more info and improve some parts, but the 95% is ready16:37
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nomisdid anyone try embedding a hildon_hvolume_bar into a menushell? Did it work?16:37
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kenderAndy80, you can put it there16:43
Andy80kender: done16:45
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MDKMono howto:
kenderAndy80, :)16:54
MDKif anybody wants to experiment with mono on 770/n80016:54
kenderMDK, thanks!16:54
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kenderwhat about this?16:56
ubuntu_hi, since this morning, the bluetooth in my n800 is not working anymore... i cannot set it on16:56
ubuntu_can i reinstall some packages to try to repair it_16:56
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MDKkender: ah, I think it was written for old mono etc.16:59
MDKbut it should definitelly work now too16:59
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MDKwith my setup you can run/develop mono apps inside scratchbox17:01
kenderI have added there17:01
MDKcool, thx17:01
kenderin development section17:01
kenderunder the mono develop howto17:02
kenderMDK, ;-)17:02
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keesjkender, nice!17:05
kenderkeesj, any answer from fenenc?17:05
keesjnope , but is sent is to garage and not fenenc :p17:06
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kenderkeesj, yes, true17:07
keesjbugger !17:07
keesjnope , but is sent is to garage and not fenenc :p17:07
kenderyes yes, I read it17:07
keesjkender, are you a c# expert?17:12
kenderbut, I have been learning a bit of it in summer17:12
keesjI tend to like c#17:13
kenderI don't like it, because is a M$ "make up"17:15
keesjI think the list has calmed down17:15
keesjyes , that is the only real problem with it17:16
keesjand programming ruby give more love in return17:16
* shackan waits for java to become gpl17:16
kenderkeesj, the list calmed down....I don't think so, is weekend...17:16
kenderkeesj, I prefer PHP or Perl17:17
mgedminpython! python!17:22
* mgedmin waits for lisp or c/c++ fans to appear17:22
kenderI'm going to start learning python for porting all my scripts from the pc, to the N80017:22
keesjmgedmin, fan is a big word , but I like pain and difficulty , that is why I started programming c and c++ again17:22
* imawinar wonders what he could offer to someone to port TOME or Ur-Quan Masters17:23
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keesjit that the acsii based thing ?17:24
imawinarboth would be a bit of work.  tome would probably need some UI work, and Ur-Quan masters might need some optimization17:24
imawinaryeah keesj i spent 3 months making a new tileset (updated tileset) 24x24 for tome17:25
imawinarbut they're moving to tome 3.0 and won't release the 2.x tiles17:25
keesjand what kind of problems you you have17:25
imawinarthey'd be perfect on the 77017:25
jtramgedmin: hey I'm a lisp fan :)17:26
imawinarlack of intelligence mostly17:26
kkitoi prefer ruby than python17:26
mgedminwhat ... have I done?17:27
jtraI prefer ruby to python too; but support for ruby is bad on 770 so I made my games with python17:27
mgedminwe'll be hearing programming language names for quite a while now17:27
keesjjtra, perhaps SDL ruby ? I have a ruby.deb for both it2006 and it2007,17:28
kenderkeesj, good job with xmoto ;-)17:29
jtrakeesj: I compiled ruby-gnome for me (gtk parts, that is), but it was badly documented and some things were crashing so I went with python and gtk17:29
keesjI like the ruby language , the way it works. but the implementation is still crappy , I hope jruby will be getting faster then ruby jit17:29
keesjjtra, funny , i went for the wxWidgets aproach17:29
kendersee you later!17:31
keesjkender, ....17:31
keesjif you happen to compile a kernel , can you build uinput ?17:31
kenderI have been testing it17:31
kenderI have been succesful exporting to the pc the keys of the n80017:32
kenderbut nothing happen with the touchscreen17:32
kenderand, from the pc to the n800, keyboard fine, but the mouse, nothing17:32
jtrahm, my shisen sho game for 770 is adictive, my GF plays it all the time17:32
keesjkender, what?17:33
keesjI use syngery for that and it uses xtest I think17:33
kenderI haven't hear nothing about that17:34
kenderurls? info?17:34
jtrakeesj: interesting17:35
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kenderand, uinput, for what?17:36
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kender<kender> and, uinput, for what?17:38
keesj I need uinput for my bt keyboard and the wii remote I am playing with :p17:38
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kenderkeesj, I'll send you though mail17:38
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jtradoes anybody have dpkg-repack for 770?17:42
kenderkeesj, send17:43
kendersee you later guys17:43
kenderkeesj, If you need anything else, from the kernel, mail me17:43
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keesjthank you17:45
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jtratoo bad, dpkg-repack (which I packaged meantime) requires perl and some other packages which means 28MB of used space which I don't have17:48
kkitossvb, are you here?17:51
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sklerhi ppl18:00
sklersomeone with bluetooth working keyboard on N800?18:01
nomisskler: yeah.18:01
nomisskler: Nokia Bluetooth KBD.18:01
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Disconnectskler: stowaway here18:02
sklercan u help me please18:03
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Disconnectnot so far, but try asking an actual question and we'll see...18:04
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bedboihi there.18:07
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sklerDisconnect, i write u in pvt18:10
sklerbut.. can u do from xterm cat /var/lib/bluetooth/YOUR_BT_MAC_HERE/classes | grep KEYB_MAC18:11
Disconnectsure lemme see if the n800 is still online (its somewhere in the lviing room right now)18:12
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Disconnectgrr its not answering ssh. brb i'll go find it.18:14
Disconnect(should prolly charge it anyway, so..)18:14
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Disconnectyou want it with the kb hooked up, yah?18:16
sklermmm my english is  very bad18:17
skleri try to configure a generic kb18:17
skleri open a post on internettablettalk18:18
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ptmanwhere should I report error in the file: ? If it were a wiki page I could edit it18:19
Disconnectskler: is it not connecting? n800 turns off bluetooth (and the icon disappears) so you have to go into the control panel -> bluetooth to turn it back on18:19
skleryeah I do this18:21
sklerbut  see here18:21
Disconnect(and classes is just hex, no text)18:21
skleri need  this hex18:21
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keesjwho was talking about time?18:22
sklerkb mac?18:23
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Disconnectnothing else is in /var/lib/bluetooth18:24
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sklercat names and see the mac of kb18:25
skleri need the hex of kb i don't know who is18:25
Disconnect00:16:38:37:65:83 Think Outside Keyboard18:25
sklerthis is the hex: 0x002540!!!!18:25
Disconnectall set?18:26
sklerfeatures cat18:27
kkitois doublepixel supported in the n800?18:27
Disconnect00:16:38:37:65:83 BC0204280808000018:27
keesjkkito, it was for the 77018:28
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kkitokeesj, and there are something similar to doublingpixel for the n800?18:29
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sklerbad not work :/18:31
sklerhcitool lq 00:0A:3A:31:F9:4518:31
sklerLink quality: 25518:31
sklerit is connected but doesn't work18:31
nomisskler: are you sure that this keyboard uses the HID protocol?18:33
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sklerhow can I check?18:34
nomisskler: the n800/770 only work with HID-protocol BT-keyboards. For others you probably need hacks.18:34
sklerbut how work?18:34
nomisskler: look into the documentation of the keyboard?18:34
sklerthere is nothing18:34
nomisskler: sorry, I don't know if someone already has managed to get a non-HID keyboard to work.18:35
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nomisskler: if the BT-keyboard does not announce its HID capability, then it probably can't do it.18:36
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kkitoit is possible to change the X resolution to a lower one, in fullscreen apps?18:39
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kkitoor the Xserver only support 800x480x16 ?18:39
keesjkkito, on the 770 for sdl apps yes, the result is a black border18:40
keesjopenssh .install failed,18:41
kkitokeesj, and on the n800?18:42
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MDKxan: ping19:24
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maddlerkeesj: what's up?19:36
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real-devhi, I'm a new n800 user, can anyone tell me what to use to produce screenshots on it?19:51
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gpdreal-dev: there is a screenshot tool that you can run from the xterm20:01
kenderkeesj, are you there?20:02
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JaffaEvening, all20:03
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* Jaffa hopes to have some mud-hacking time this evening20:04
kenderhi Jaffa20:04
Jaffahi kender20:05
kenderI have tried to export the mouse (touchscreen) of the N800 using synergy, it works, but the mouse goes in steps, always "clicked" and little sensible, any fix for this? maybe changing the resolution?20:06
maddlerJaffa: heya20:07
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timelyxthere's also an applet for the status bar that can take screen shots20:08
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gpdkender: hah - synergy on the tablet - nice idea :)20:12
kendergpd, :)20:12
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timelyis anyone here familiar w/ garage? :)20:18
tkoin what sense?20:19
real-devgpd: thx20:19
timelywell, i'd like to understand what controls who can check out a project20:19
timelyi guess it's "enable anonymous access"20:20
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* timely pokes tko20:22
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tkonever used gforge..20:26
* timely grumbles20:26
timelycan someone here please explain why a gpl project would have a private scm?20:27
timelyi think the question is clear20:27
Fatali can't understand the question20:27
Andy80I've found another bug in the apophis version of Scratchbox20:28
timely#define scm svc_repo20:28
Fatalyou must have something specific in mind which makes the question perfectly clear for you20:28
timely#define gpl_project alarmd20:28
Andy80whenever I logout from it, the dsp is busy and all my desktop application cannot access to sound20:28
timelyfatal: is that actually useful?20:29
Fatalmaybe the developer don't have it on a machine he trusts, don't trust the scm to be secure enough, don't want outside help, maybe he only invites those who have the need to use the scm, etc etc20:29
Fatalthere are a tonnes of reasons20:29
Fatals/a //20:29
timelyby private i don't mean prohibiting read write20:29
timelyi mean prohibiting read20:29
Fatalbut that's just in general, for his specific reasons you might want to ask him20:29
Fatali can understand it20:30
* timely doesn't really feel like hacking gforge20:31
Fatalhum?why would you?20:31
timelybecause i probably could and it'd make my life easier20:32
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Fatalso, if you hate the guy enough to think his values are complete and utter shit, why the hell use his software? Really.20:32
timelyoh, i'm not using his software particularly20:32
timelyi'm sorta enabling people to look at all the hosted software20:33
timelyand i'd rather not manually add myself to each and every project20:33
timelygiven that there are something like a hundred and seventy two of them20:33
* timely wonders if svn has a "don't ask me for my password, i don't really care about this repository" flag20:34
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* timely supposes --non-interactive should work20:37
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ajturneris there a flash yet for 3.0 on Mac?20:39
timelywhat's mac?20:39
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qgilajturner: no, as far as I'm aware20:41
ajturnerI haven't seen one, but figured I'd ask here to make sure I didn't miss it or it was just lurking ;(20:42
ajturnerneed to get root20:42
timelyoh, you mean flasher20:43
timelynot flash plugin or file that is flashable20:43
* timely sighs20:43
xanMDK, pong20:43
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ajturnertimely - yes20:49
ajturnersorry :) wasn't clear20:49
koen"Does the camera in the N800 support the X11 Xv extension?"20:51
Robot101yes, if you put the battery in upside-down it works as a projector!!!11ONE20:53
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* timely decides to try to get perl64 happy20:56
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s-ndh-cMDK: thx for that great mono article in the wiki and the ready to use tarballs21:15
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s-ndh-cdidnt manage to build gtk-sharp on my own21:17
s-ndh-cnow it will be much easier to use mono with the n770/n80021:18
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alpmaybe we can get packaging sorted and have maemo debs put out at the same time as novell's packages21:18
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s-ndh-cwould be great21:20
qgilit would be good if MDK or any other simians would explain how far you can go with Mono and the internet tablets21:20
alpwonder what applications would make sense on the device21:20
keesjI packaged and tested cwiid for the n770 !
alpi had some patches to make f-spot work better on the n700 a year ago or so21:20
alprebuilding debian's packages may be worth investigating. they are very split out, which may be hassle (though originally the idea behind splitting it out was to target smaller devices which don't need all the features)21:22
alpi'll pick up my device from the mail room this week. MDK has made a great start21:25
tkothe problem with rebuilding debian packages is that we'd need all the build dependencies, and there's sometimes lots of extra dependencies because everyone loves features :)21:27
tkothe debian eabi port might be interesting for picking up binary packages21:27
alpi don't know, maybe there is also value to having one monolithic mono deb which has gtk-sharp, hildon bindings and osso built in21:28
MDKxan, tko: after some investigation, I think it's not easily possible to fix minimum-visible-bars at the HildonControlbar level21:28
MDKthe patch in gtk modifies the function that translates the x,y coords into bar value21:29
alpcertainly people like to download one file and install it by hand. i don't know if people are using the apt-like updater in maemo now21:29
tkoMDK, did we really need it? I thought it was used only in one place and even there only when the widget is made insensitive21:29
keesjalp: with the new download site the .install file will become popular (if they work) and that is apt-get like21:30
MDKtko: the problem is, we use the altered behaviour in most places21:30
MDKaltered behaviour = minimum visible bars > 021:30
jtrahey, this is my first step to implement translucent keyboard in xterm - (see that semi transparent picture over vte area) - cool, right? :)21:30
MDKwe usually use m-v-b=121:30
alpoh, and we definitely need to make a decision on which assemblies to ship. i am pretty sure it makes sense to completely omit the 1.0 profile21:32
keesjjtra: are you hackinng the xterm or someting else?21:32
MDKalp: people don't use apt, but dependencies do21:33
jtrakeesj: libvte, which is used by osso-xterm21:33
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Veggenalp: it definitely bothers me that an apt-get upgrade is dangerous, btw :)21:34
Andy80I've just installed Canola on my n770. When I start it I see an image, then the program crashes... is it a known bug?21:34
alpVeggen: yeah, i learnt that some time ago. i guess these are the mistakes that were made that are slowly being reconciled21:34
Veggenpeople coming from a Linux/Debian background, will find that highly annoying.21:35
timelyandry80: i think you need to configure it21:35
Andy80timely: how can I configure it if it crashes without letting me do anything?21:35
timelythe configure app is a different menuitem21:35
alpVeggen: they chose the right tools, but in the cases of deb/gtk+ took a slightly odd approach, but i am confident now that everyone knows how to get over that21:35
Andy80timely: where is?21:36
* timely shrugs21:36
timelythere aren't that many menus :)21:36
Andy80ok, i search :)21:36
keesjVeggen, why should they get annoyed?21:37
Veggenkeesj: because it's natural that one wants to keep the programs up-to-date?21:37
c0ffeei figured out that using apt-get over ssh is far easier on the tablet :)21:37
keesjVeggen, so what bothers you?(sorry I really don't understand)21:38
keesjthe .install bothers me and the gui application manager21:38
alpi think i was disappointed that the original maemo release didn't work as a new debian port, building up on the emdebian work21:39
Veggenkeesj: apt-get upgrade should *not* break the box :) it's the normal way to treat a Debian system?21:39
keesjand the binary .deb files and that I don't know if I can thrust the basic packages like openssl21:39
Andy80timely: found... but I think there are a lot of bugs! If I click on Feeds "File canola-feeds.html doesn't exist", similar thing if I click on "+" in Media Collection... and I've no themes installed...21:39
Andy80timely: is it possible I've added a wrong repository?21:39
timelyandy80: um21:40
timelydid i mention that i haven't actually /used/ this thing? :)21:40
timelyi've just seen it crash :)21:40
Andy80ah ok :)21:40
* timely ponders21:41
timelyis mv going to do the wrong thing for /dev? :(21:41
xanMDK, we'll have to give it some thinking tomorrow then21:48
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jaebirdmono on the tablet (as a supported framework) would be really cool21:50
jaebirdI could see a mini-banshee like media app being nice to an open source canola21:51
tko - clear proof that vista did not copy from mac os x :)21:51
shackancanola is closed !?!21:51
timelyit certainly isn't open :)21:51
shackanwow, didn't know that21:51
jaebirdAFAIK...would be nice if they switched licenses :)21:52
timelyare you sure you want to see the code?21:52
timelythis past year i learned a very effective curse21:53
timelymay you see the source code21:53
timelya worse variant of course is: may you be forced to edit one line of the source code21:53
timelythere are even worse variants involving may you be forced to maintain the source code21:53
tkotimely, you touched it, you own it21:54
timelyit's a very good curse21:54
jaebirdyeah...true, but if the people behind closed source get hit by a bus or go bankrupt you are SOL21:54
timelyalthough i kinda prefer you looked at it you bought it21:54
timelyjaebird: *shrug*21:54
timelywhat happens if the authors get arrested?21:55
timelyfor example, maybe they are accused of killing their wife?21:55
shackantimely, that was low...21:55
timelyi could probably answer the question in that context21:56
timelybut for some reason they never made me a peer :|21:56
jaebirdalp: saw the discussion on mono earlier21:56
timelyshackan: sorry, it's fitting21:56
timelythe thing about closed source is that if the product makes money21:56
timelyyou usually are willing to hire someone to learn and maintain it21:56
timelyif the thing isn't making money, then why are you using or stealing it?21:57
timelyi'm not necessarily actively defending closed source21:57
timelybut people who claim closed source has these problems better make sure their backyards don't have worse skeletons21:57
timelyand well, that skeleton's pretty hard to overlook21:58
* timely frowns22:02
timelythere's cosyhome and cosy-home in garage?22:02
keesjyes, the project first was rejected but apparently the created two project afterwards22:04
Andy80I've a problem with a process on n770: it seems that dpkg is running and I cannot kill it. I open a terminal, I become root, I look for its PID (1335) and I do: kill -9 133522:06
Andy80no errors, but no killing at all :(22:07
Andy80how can I kill it?22:07
Andy80I tried to reboot too, but nothing changes22:07
timelyreboot doesn't fix it?!22:07
Andy80no :(22:07
Andy80it's strange anyway, that root cannot kill a process22:07
suihkulokkitimely: well, perfectly profitable closed source software products have been killed for the most strangest reasons before, so it is a real fear22:08
suihkulokkifor example rav antivirus22:08
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Andy80timely: the proc info is this: 1335 root       2100 D N /usr/bin/dpkg --status-fd 26 --force-depends --force-remove-essential --remove canola avahi-daemon canola-applet canola-conf libca22:10
* timely chuckles22:10
* timely looks for the "no warrantee sign" that ships w/ canola22:10
timelyyou did backup your device and package info before installing it, right? :)22:11
Andy80timely: why?22:11
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Andy80do I need to reflash my device?22:14
Andy80any suggestions?22:17
shackanis it possible to boot the n800 from usb?22:17
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timelyor mmc in theory22:18
timelythere's a flag you can give to flasher specifying the boot device22:18
timelyyou might even be able to boot from nfs, but i can't remember :)22:18
timelyi suppose i could check22:18
Andy80timely: any ideas before reflashing my whole device?22:19
timelyandy80: i'm not the expert, i just break things :)22:20
timelypersonally i tend to pull out gdb, strace, and friends22:20
timelybut you can't really use dpkg to install them :)22:20
Andy80I cannot kill dpkg22:20
Andy80this is the problem22:20
shackantimeless, is it possible to boot from my laptop via usb? (ie: make it appear as usb storage)22:21
timelyok, flash, mmc and usb are the listed boot devices22:22
shackancool, what about what I said?22:23
timelydunno, i take it you don't have any usb keys?22:23
shackanI do22:23
shackanbut I wanted to avoid a lot of key swapping22:24
timelywhy not setup one of those?22:24
shackanbecause its faster, make kernel -> drop somewhere on you laptop -> reboot tablet -> debug22:24
* timely shrugs, nothing's impossible22:27
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tkoMDK, I think you didn't really test the HIG definitions, did you? :)22:44
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Andy80timely: just reflashed with latest firmware -_-22:55
jheAndy80: you didn't have the charging cable plugged in when you rebooted, did you? When it is plugged the device doesn't really shut down when you try to turn it off from the UI (instead it just changes to a special "acting dead" runlevel), and that would explain why your dpkg process didn't go away.23:02
c0ffeehey jhe23:03
jhec0ffee: hi23:03
c0ffeeany news on the bt stuff? :)23:03
jhenope :-/23:03
jhehopefully next week23:03
Andy80jhe: yes, it was a charging cable problem at the beginning, but the apt system was compromised, I explain: after killing dpkg I tried to: apt-get remove canola, and the reply was: Abort.23:03
c0ffeewould be great :)23:03
Andy80jhe: Now I've flashed with latest os2006 firmware (v3)23:04
Andy80jhe: ony a question about repository: os2006 v3 should be "scirocco" version, right? Repositories available on only talks about "mistral" and no "scirocco" what should I write when I add a repository?23:05
c0ffeemistral is correct for os200623:06
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Andy80and... why some repository tell me to use "scirocco" ? Who should use "scirocco" then?23:07
* jhe actually has very little clue about the different version codenames23:07
c0ffeethat's for developing stuff23:07
tkowe're fairly confused when it comes to release names :)23:08
tkoas far as I've understood it, os2006 v1 <-> mistral, v2 <-> scirocco, v3 <-> gregale23:09
tkothe sane way would've been to call the whole os2006 series mistral, but oh well...23:10
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sp3000so when is someone going to draw pretty roadmap / naming pictures :)23:13
keesjabout the maemo history?23:14
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* tko pretends to be busy23:15
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c0ffeeis the source code of one of those wizard apps available?23:24
c0ffeelike where you can configure a new internet connection23:25
qgilsp3000: what you mean by pretty roadmap / naming pictures?23:29
c0ffeesadly, i suck a lot at gui design23:29
c0ffeeall my attempts to come up with a similar wizzard are saying "i suck at gui" all over them23:29
qgilfwiw, since a couple of days I'm the "owner" of
qgilI'm talking with people in OSSO team to see how to update that page23:31
tko"Major updates: gtk - based on 2.6.10" :)23:31
tkoonly slightly outdated23:32
inzc0ffee, you need to consult tigert ;)23:33
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c0ffeeah, he's doing the wizzards?23:33
tkotricky.. do we really want to give away our advanced UI designs? :)23:33
c0ffeewhat about a wizzard widget23:34
qgilI also asked at about suggestions to be integrated in the roadmap, but no feedback (perhaps we deserve it)  ;)23:34
c0ffeeyou feed it with some xml and it executes the configuration itself23:34
c0ffeeqgil, 404 :)23:35
c0ffeemy fault23:35
sp3000qgil: something to relate the various repo and release names and numbers at a glance, I guess23:35
c0ffeewell, let's answer then23:35
qgilsp3000: then more than a roadmap you need a maemo map23:36
inzc0ffee, he doesn't make the wizards, but he can help with GUI d'sign23:36
qgilsp3000: yeah, in my to-do list as well23:36
sp3000whatevermap :)23:36
qgilwell, roadmap means timeline and getting an idea of repositories etc means "space"23:37
c0ffeeqgil, somebody answered your mail23:37
c0ffeeqgil, and he actually pinned down the worst point of maemo23:37
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c0ffeeqgil, we definitely need a way to for vpn plugins that integrate nicely in the normal network management23:38
c0ffeeqgil, a 'configure vpn for this connection' in the advanced config options for connections23:38
c0ffeeqgil, and some dbus mechanizm to start and stop vpn daemons during network connection23:38
qgilI see23:40
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qgilthe problem of definitions comes again  :)23:40
c0ffeewhat problem is that?23:40
sp3000qgil: both, really, as in, how the space evolves23:40
qgilI was thinking of a roadmap of the development platform, not the whole Maemo-understood-as-the-platform23:40
sp3000having a time axis to the space map helps, hence the pretty picture thing23:41
c0ffeewell :)23:41
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tkoqgil, hmm, what's the difference? :)23:41
c0ffeehave you ever developed using a self-compiled crosschain?23:41
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c0ffeethere's not much you could improve with the scratchbox setup from that point of view23:41
c0ffeeimho maemo as a complete product feels too much like carved in stone23:42
c0ffee3rd party software is forced to come with a clumsy hack look & feel because many essential applications still aren't extensible23:43
c0ffeeso i'd like to see apis for such stuff on the roadmap :)23:43
qgilc0ffee: concatenate your chat sentences in an email answering my call and it will be much more useful, believe me23:43
keesjyou can't have both the source and good api's :p but one of them is usually required23:44
qgilyes, point the weak points of the development platform you think we should work on23:45
qgilthe more precise you are pointing and explaining weaknesses, the better23:45
qgillet me explain23:47
qgilin our team I'm playing a role of, say, the advocate of the external developers23:47
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qgilI need to bring inside everything that makes life easier and happier to external developers23:48
c0ffeedoes this mean you scream and bitch at the others all day long? :)23:48
tkoc0ffee, hope so :)23:48
qgilbut then I face several factors, typical in any project: resources available, deadlines, other interests, other views...23:48
qgilthis is why we need to priorituize, negotiate and plan steps forward that a) make sense and b) we can effectively make23:49
qgilwhen we add something the roadmap (now) it is because we think we will achieve it, if not we don put it23:50
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keesjwhat about trying to achieve things that are impossible for normal developers (full support for all that nice hardware and java) that sounds such a quick win23:51
qgilI want to add more flexibility, ina  kind of Wishlist that allows us to identify desired progress without committing ourselves - as many free software projects do with their roadmaps23:51
tkoIMO we should also put 'not yet' things into our roadmaps, maybe with a 'help wanted' sign attached23:51
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c0ffeetko, yeah, that would be useful23:51
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* cworth still can't find the "first steps with the n800" document he's looking for23:52
tkoI mean there's only so much we can do ourselves23:52
qgiltko: yes, I also think this is the way23:52
c0ffeetko, i can think of one or two things, I want to have done myself, but apart from that, a clear sign 'here help is wanted' would be needed23:52
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cworthFor starters, I'd just like to be able to connect to this device over ssh. Where are instructions on doing that?23:52
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c0ffeeinstall dropbear-server23:52
tkoin the wiki :-]23:52
JaffaSo far the problem's been that Nokia's plans are so closed, and tied to Maemo, that any direction on Maemo has to come from Nokia to be accepted, but a "help wanted" might spoil future product plans :-/23:53
c0ffeecworth, it's in one of the 'howtogetroot' wiki entries23:53
cworthThe wiki could definitely use some treatment like this page has:23:53
c0ffeeit's a wiki23:53
c0ffeefeel free23:53
cworthThat is, noting which documents apply to n800 as equally as to n770.23:53
cworthc0ffee: Sure, but I don't know any of the details (...yet).23:54
qgilJaffa: yes, you are pointing to one of my current tasks  :)23:54
cworthc0ffee: So in the wiki I'm seeing "Step 1: Point your browser to [WWW] Xterm DEB and then to [WWW] Dropbear DEB". Do we not have things set up to be able to install this stuff through the "Application Manager" program yet?23:56
qgilthere are ways to solve the equation, though - generally Nokia don't rely on volunteerism to get the help needed in order to develop the core product plans: Nokia hires, Nokia contracts, this is what companies do23:56
c0ffeeif you feed the 2007 repositories to your app manager, you can just install them from there23:56
tkoc0ffee, you mean all 20 of them? :)23:57
qgilthis is why I insist in enhancements for the benefit of the own external developers (aka you)23:57
Jaffaqgil: Agreed, however if I was being cynical, I'd say Nokia need all the help they can get23:57
c0ffeetko, you're on the safe side then, right? :)23:57
JaffaIn fact, that's not cynical. The cynical bit is pointing out all the little niggles in the N800 which many eyes might've made shallow before release (not that I wouldn't want my N800 when I got it ;-))23:57
qgilJaffa: of course, but the help we want from developers like you will come if we help you getting the results you expect to get in your developments23:58
c0ffeeqgil, well, the developer device program is kind of a signal that nokia can do different as well23:58
svuI heard, new firmware is supposed to be released soon?23:58
cworthc0ffee: Which repositories? I see at least 7 "2007" repositories listed here:23:59
c0ffeemaemo-hackers for the xterm23:59
c0ffeeno idea in which the dropbear-server is, sorry :/23:59

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