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| pbrook | Can menu items (foo.desktop files) point to shell scripts? | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| pbrook | Never mind, I just found the dumb typo in teh filename. | 00:33 |
| maddler | pbrook: there is an howto on maemo.org | 00:37 |
| maddler | btw | 00:37 |
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| KrnlKlink | Has anyone ever paired a 770 with a Motorola A1200? I have my provider specific connections setup and the phone looks like it connects but then the 770 errors out | 00:41 |
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| kaatis | KrnlKlink, a1200 is a linux phone, right? is it any good? | 00:51 |
| KrnlKlink | kaatis: Yes, it is a great phone...my only problems with it are tethering it to a linux device via bluetooth and the lack of an obex server...there is a lot of hacking going on right now...I've just recently run a beta of a X11/GPE image which has great potential....check out openezx.org...I believe that the motorola linux phones will be quickly ported to the openmoko framework | 00:59 |
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| kaatis | KrnlKlink, i see. thanks for the infos. i think that phone isn't sold anywhere in europe | 01:05 |
| KrnlKlink | Kaatis, I believe it may be called the a1200i | 01:05 |
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| Setok | I heard there's a new razr-style linux phone from motorola | 01:09 |
| kaatis | KrnlKlink, doesn't seem to be available with that name either. many brazilian sites in google results thou | 01:09 |
| Setok | like newer than the a1200 | 01:09 |
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| KrnlKlink | Setok, I think the E6 is a linux phone, as well as the MotoFone | 01:17 |
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| tigert | ok. time to sleep | 01:33 |
| maddler | tigert: bye... | 01:34 |
| tigert | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgjNq-Y8NGk < some confusing finnish stuff for you :) | 01:34 |
| maddler | hehehehe... thank you... | 01:34 |
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| tigert | I even think Nokia was involved somehow :) | 01:35 |
| maddler | tigert: hahahaha I know them! | 01:35 |
| maddler | leningrad cowboys... | 01:35 |
| tigert | yea, they rock | 01:36 |
| maddler | I should have their movie somewhere... | 01:36 |
| tigert | what was amazing is that it's the real russian red army choir that was touring with them | 01:36 |
| tigert | anyway, later! :) | 01:36 |
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| tigert | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6ETVQgob0 | 01:37 |
| maddler | tigert: yep... I was amazed by that... | 01:38 |
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| tigert | yep | 01:40 |
| sri | cool.. FBreader works in maemo3 | 01:41 |
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| sri | hi tigert :) | 01:41 |
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| jwb_n800 | anyone have pine for the n800? | 02:03 |
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| maddler | jwb_n800: not sure... but I think I saw it somewhere... | 02:11 |
| maddler | jwb_n800: did you tried the "old" 770 version already? | 02:12 |
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| jwb_n800 | maddler, no i cat find a repo with it | 02:12 |
| jwb_n800 | I'm new to these things so i'm probably screwing up somewhere | 02:13 |
| maddler | jwb_n800: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc/nokia770/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/ | 02:17 |
| maddler | try here... | 02:17 |
| jwb_n800 | maddler, ok thanks | 02:17 |
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| maddler | jwb_n800: btw... I'd suggest using mutt instead... | 02:31 |
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| JoshTriplett | While experimenting with some Python code on my N800, I noticed that the window title had the name of my Python file in it. When I called set_title on my HildonWindow, that title just got appended to the name of the python file. How do I set the entire title? | 02:33 |
| jwb_n800 | maddler, mutt on the n800? | 02:34 |
| jwb_n800 | maddler, does it respond to taps? | 02:34 |
| Sulis | mutt is command line and so is pine...i don't imagine either of them would respond to taps | 02:35 |
| JoshTriplett | Sulis: Depends on the terminal; I think mutt in an xterm or similar will respond to the mouse. | 02:36 |
| jwb_n800 | Sulis, pine supposedly does | 02:36 |
| maddler | jwb_n800: never tried... | 02:36 |
| Sulis | ah, yeah i guess it could do that | 02:36 |
| jwb_n800 | JoshTriplett, i've used mutt in an osso-xterm over ssh. No tap response | 02:37 |
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| maddler | btw... pine cannot be installed... missing dependencies... | 02:37 |
| maddler | cannot investigate right now... | 02:38 |
| jwb_n800 | shoot. That's ok. Thanks anyway | 02:38 |
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| maddler | hehe | 02:40 |
| maddler | damn... I can't understand why mountpoints are "changing" | 02:47 |
| maddler | in /etc/fstab I have /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 | 02:47 |
| maddler | but mount reports /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 | 02:48 |
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| maddler | isn't supposed mmc1 to be Internal SD? | 02:57 |
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| JoshTriplett | maddler: No, internal sd shows up as mmc2. | 03:02 |
| JoshTriplett | jwb_n800: Perhaps osso-xterm doesn't implement the xterm mouse stuff. | 03:02 |
| jwb_n800 | JoshTriplett, maybe not... Is there a different one available? | 03:03 |
| JoshTriplett | jwb_n800: Not that I know of. You might try mutt in a standard xterm on a normal GNU/Linux box, and see if the mouse works there. | 03:04 |
| JoshTriplett | jwb_n800: Or gnome-terminal, or something like that. | 03:04 |
| maddler | JoshTriplett: no... mine is mounted as mmc2... | 03:05 |
| maddler | and can't understand *why*! | 03:05 |
| maddler | I just tried rebooting only with internal SD... | 03:05 |
| maddler | and it's mounted as MMC2 | 03:05 |
| maddler | maybe I've been tweaking too much somewhere... :D | 03:06 |
| maddler | btw... the strange thing is that I have 2 partitions on each SD... | 03:06 |
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| maddler | and none is mounted in accordance to what stated in fstab | 03:06 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 03:37 |
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| Andy80 | I'm installin the maemo 2.2 SDK from scratch. I'm configuring the SDK_ARMEL target and I don't know which cputrasparency option select from the list. Available are:qemu-arm-0.7.0-sb2, qemu-arm-0.8.0-m2,qemu-arm-0.8.0-sb2, qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb2, qemu-armeb-0.8.1-sb2 ecc... which one do I have to choose? | 03:39 |
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| maddler | Andy80: je m' vagg' a cocca`! | 03:42 |
| maddler | :D | 03:42 |
| maddler | translation: I'd really go to bed! | 03:42 |
| maddler | :D | 03:42 |
| maddler | no! wait! found the floppy! | 03:43 |
| maddler | a piece of history! | 03:43 |
| Andy80 | :D | 03:44 |
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| maddler | beside it's taking hours to copy on it... | 03:49 |
| maddler | it takes less to burn a CD! | 03:49 |
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| Andy80 | I got an error executing Xephyr. I start start-xephyr.sh from outside the box, then from the box I execute: export DISPLAY=:2 then I execute: af-sb-init.sh start but I get an error (I'll copy it somewhere) | 03:58 |
| Andy80 | here's the error: http://pastebin.ca/339402 | 04:00 |
| Andy80 | how can I fix it? | 04:00 |
| maddler | ok... bios update didn't fixed the issue... | 04:02 |
| maddler | folks... TTL for real now... | 04:02 |
| maddler | see ya all... | 04:02 |
| Andy80 | bye maddler | 04:04 |
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| imawinar | hmm, scratchbox multi boot cd for qemu | 08:56 |
| imawinar | http://uit.opf.slu.cz/Members/wangji | 08:56 |
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| keesj | Hi | 09:30 |
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| keesj | How i maemo pronounced? | 10:29 |
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| melmoth | 10:30 | |
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| keesj | sorry it looks like i have pretty bad dns problem | 10:33 |
| c0ffee | a dns problem that causes a tcp connection to drop? | 10:34 |
| c0ffee | strange.. | 10:34 |
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| keesj | yes, sorry that is not really possible. Irssi is still new to me | 10:41 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:08 |
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| imawinar | salaam | 12:09 |
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| trenka_ | ssvb: got your n800? | 12:36 |
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| ssvb | trenka: yes, got it about 2 hours ago, charging it for the first time right now :) | 12:41 |
| jacques | cool | 12:42 |
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| trenka | cool twice :) | 12:47 |
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| noir | hi | 14:22 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 14:33 |
| Andy80 | I got an error executing Xephyr. I start start-xephyr.sh from outside the box, then from the box I execute: export DISPLAY=:2 then I execute: af-sb-init.sh start but I get an error: http://pastebin.ca/339402 rebooting the PC the problem is not present anymore, but.... what happened exactly? | 14:34 |
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| kulve | Andy80: yout xephyr is not started with -ac? | 14:35 |
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| kulve | hmm.. actually it seems that it's trying to connect display 0.0 | 14:36 |
| Andy80 | but I didn't change anything... this morning I did the same procedure... | 14:36 |
| Andy80 | the script is the same | 14:36 |
| kulve | and it seems that you already have something running. Try "restart" instead of "start" usually.. | 14:37 |
| Andy80 | start-xephyr.sh I mean... | 14:37 |
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| kulve | those segmentations faults seems bad in anyway.. | 14:37 |
| kulve | -in | 14:39 |
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| maddler | hey all | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | hi | 15:03 |
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| maddler | heya mgedmin | 15:05 |
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| * maddler goes to physical life... | 15:30 | |
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| script | hi | 15:57 |
| script | does anyone else have issues with missing libXau.so.0 when using n700 packages on n800? | 15:57 |
| nomis | script: I recently tried to install maemo-mapper on the n800, and it complained about a missing package, that could have been the same. | 16:07 |
| script | nomis: i don't think so, app installes fine but doesnt start because of missing library | 16:08 |
| nomis | hmm. | 16:08 |
| nomis | no idea then. | 16:08 |
| script | unfortunately i have no n800 to test it | 16:08 |
| script | some n800 users report the app as working, some complain about missing library | 16:08 |
| tolou | What app? | 16:09 |
| script | tolou: vpnc-gui | 16:09 |
| script | i just released beta version some days ago | 16:09 |
| script | maybe i should donwload the bootstrap package and have a look at it ... | 16:11 |
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| kender | hello | 16:12 |
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| nomis | du, HildonHVolumeBar is not a MenuItem. | 16:17 |
| nomis | duh even. | 16:17 |
| keesj | did somebody try the it2007 on the 770? | 16:20 |
| nomis | ehm. Which is actually not a problem, since the stock MenuItem of course is a container. | 16:20 |
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| Andy80 | I've finished writing a complete (updated and tested for maemo 2.2) howto (in italian language) that explain how to install and configure scratchbox, maemo 2.2 sdk, xephyr ecc... are you interested in linking it somewhere on maemo website? | 16:35 |
| kender | Andy80, sure, any info is welcome | 16:36 |
| Andy80 | kender: the howto is here: http://www.ptlug.org/wiki/Howto_Installazione_Maemo_SDK_Nokia_770 | 16:36 |
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| Andy80 | maybe I'll have to add more info and improve some parts, but the 95% is ready | 16:37 |
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| nomis | did anyone try embedding a hildon_hvolume_bar into a menushell? Did it work? | 16:37 |
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| kender | Andy80, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/UsefulLinks you can put it there | 16:43 |
| Andy80 | kender: done | 16:45 |
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| MDK | Mono howto: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/mono | 16:53 |
| kender | Andy80, :) | 16:54 |
| MDK | if anybody wants to experiment with mono on 770/n800 | 16:54 |
| kender | MDK, thanks! | 16:54 |
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| kender | MDK, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToWriteAMonoApplication | 16:55 |
| kender | what about this? | 16:56 |
| ubuntu_ | hi, since this morning, the bluetooth in my n800 is not working anymore... i cannot set it on | 16:56 |
| ubuntu_ | can i reinstall some packages to try to repair it_ | 16:56 |
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| MDK | kender: ah, I think it was written for old mono etc. | 16:59 |
| MDK | but it should definitelly work now too | 16:59 |
| kender | nice | 17:00 |
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| MDK | with my setup you can run/develop mono apps inside scratchbox | 17:01 |
| kender | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo | 17:01 |
| kender | I have added there | 17:01 |
| MDK | cool, thx | 17:01 |
| kender | in development section | 17:01 |
| kender | under the mono develop howto | 17:02 |
| kender | MDK, ;-) | 17:02 |
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| keesj | kender, nice! | 17:05 |
| kender | keesj, any answer from fenenc? | 17:05 |
| keesj | nope , but is sent is to garage and not fenenc :p | 17:06 |
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| kender | keesj, yes, true | 17:07 |
| kender | hehe | 17:07 |
| keesj | bugger ! | 17:07 |
| keesj | nope , but is sent is to garage and not fenenc :p | 17:07 |
| kender | yes yes, I read it | 17:07 |
| keesj | kender, are you a c# expert? | 17:12 |
| kender | no | 17:12 |
| kender | hehe | 17:12 |
| kender | but, I have been learning a bit of it in summer | 17:12 |
| keesj | I tend to like c# | 17:13 |
| kender | hehe | 17:14 |
| kender | I don't like it, because is a M$ "make up" | 17:15 |
| keesj | I think the list has calmed down | 17:15 |
| keesj | yes , that is the only real problem with it | 17:16 |
| keesj | and programming ruby give more love in return | 17:16 |
| * shackan waits for java to become gpl | 17:16 | |
| kender | keesj, the list calmed down....I don't think so, is weekend... | 17:16 |
| kender | keesj, I prefer PHP or Perl | 17:17 |
| kender | hehe | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | python! python! | 17:22 |
| kender | hehe | 17:22 |
| * mgedmin waits for lisp or c/c++ fans to appear | 17:22 | |
| kender | I'm going to start learning python for porting all my scripts from the pc, to the N800 | 17:22 |
| keesj | mgedmin, fan is a big word , but I like pain and difficulty , that is why I started programming c and c++ again | 17:22 |
| kender | hehehe | 17:23 |
| * imawinar wonders what he could offer to someone to port TOME or Ur-Quan Masters | 17:23 | |
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| keesj | it that the acsii based thing http://www.t-o-m-e.net/screen.php?tome_current=0 ? | 17:24 |
| imawinar | both would be a bit of work. tome would probably need some UI work, and Ur-Quan masters might need some optimization | 17:24 |
| imawinar | yeah keesj i spent 3 months making a new tileset (updated tileset) 24x24 for tome | 17:25 |
| imawinar | but they're moving to tome 3.0 and won't release the 2.x tiles | 17:25 |
| keesj | and what kind of problems you you have | 17:25 |
| imawinar | they'd be perfect on the 770 | 17:25 |
| jtra | mgedmin: hey I'm a lisp fan :) | 17:26 |
| imawinar | lack of intelligence mostly | 17:26 |
| kkito | i prefer ruby than python | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | what ... have I done? | 17:27 |
| jtra | I prefer ruby to python too; but support for ruby is bad on 770 so I made my games with python | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | we'll be hearing programming language names for quite a while now | 17:27 |
| keesj | jtra, perhaps SDL ruby ? I have a ruby.deb for both it2006 and it2007, | 17:28 |
| kender | keesj, good job with xmoto ;-) | 17:29 |
| jtra | keesj: I compiled ruby-gnome for me (gtk parts, that is), but it was badly documented and some things were crashing so I went with python and gtk | 17:29 |
| keesj | I like the ruby language , the way it works. but the implementation is still crappy , I hope jruby will be getting faster then ruby jit | 17:29 |
| keesj | jtra, funny , i went for the wxWidgets aproach | 17:29 |
| kender | see you later! | 17:31 |
| keesj | kender, .... | 17:31 |
| kender | yes? | 17:31 |
| keesj | if you happen to compile a kernel , can you build uinput ? | 17:31 |
| kender | yes | 17:31 |
| kender | I have been testing it | 17:31 |
| kender | I have been succesful exporting to the pc the keys of the n800 | 17:32 |
| kender | but nothing happen with the touchscreen | 17:32 |
| kender | and, from the pc to the n800, keyboard fine, but the mouse, nothing | 17:32 |
| jtra | hm, my shisen sho game for 770 is adictive, my GF plays it all the time | 17:32 |
| keesj | jtra http://www.keesj.dds.nl/n770/ruby/wxruby/textctrl_real_device_24_08_2006.png http://www.keesj.dds.nl/n770/ruby/wxruby/textctrl_23_08_2006.mpeg | 17:33 |
| keesj | kender, what? | 17:33 |
| keesj | I use syngery for that and it uses xtest I think | 17:33 |
| kender | I haven't hear nothing about that | 17:34 |
| kender | urls? info? | 17:34 |
| kender | hehe | 17:34 |
| jtra | keesj: interesting | 17:35 |
| keesj | kender, http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ | 17:35 |
| kender | interesting | 17:36 |
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| kender | and, uinput, for what? | 17:36 |
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| kender | <kender> and, uinput, for what? | 17:38 |
| keesj | I need uinput for my bt keyboard and the wii remote I am playing with :p | 17:38 |
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| kender | keesj, I'll send you though mail | 17:38 |
| keesj | great | 17:39 |
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| jtra | does anybody have dpkg-repack for 770? | 17:42 |
| kender | keesj, send | 17:43 |
| kender | see you later guys | 17:43 |
| kender | keesj, If you need anything else, from the kernel, mail me | 17:43 |
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| keesj | thank you | 17:45 |
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| jtra | too bad, dpkg-repack (which I packaged meantime) requires perl and some other packages which means 28MB of used space which I don't have | 17:48 |
| kkito | ssvb, are you here? | 17:51 |
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| skler | hi ppl | 18:00 |
| skler | someone with bluetooth working keyboard on N800? | 18:01 |
| nomis | skler: yeah. | 18:01 |
| nomis | skler: Nokia Bluetooth KBD. | 18:01 |
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| Disconnect | skler: stowaway here | 18:02 |
| skler | good | 18:03 |
| skler | can u help me please | 18:03 |
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| Disconnect | not so far, but try asking an actual question and we'll see... | 18:04 |
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| bedboi | hi there. | 18:07 |
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| skler | Disconnect, i write u in pvt | 18:10 |
| skler | but.. can u do from xterm cat /var/lib/bluetooth/YOUR_BT_MAC_HERE/classes | grep KEYB_MAC | 18:11 |
| Disconnect | sure lemme see if the n800 is still online (its somewhere in the lviing room right now) | 18:12 |
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| skler | thanks | 18:14 |
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| Disconnect | grr its not answering ssh. brb i'll go find it. | 18:14 |
| Disconnect | (should prolly charge it anyway, so..) | 18:14 |
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| Disconnect | you want it with the kb hooked up, yah? | 18:16 |
| skler | mmm my english is very bad | 18:17 |
| skler | i try to configure a generic kb | 18:17 |
| skler | i open a post on internettablettalk | 18:18 |
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| ptman | where should I report error in the file: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/gregale/INSTALL.txt ? If it were a wiki page I could edit it | 18:19 |
| Disconnect | skler: is it not connecting? n800 turns off bluetooth (and the icon disappears) so you have to go into the control panel -> bluetooth to turn it back on | 18:19 |
| skler | yeah I do this | 18:21 |
| skler | but see here | 18:21 |
| Disconnect | (and classes is just hex, no text) | 18:21 |
| skler | hex | 18:21 |
| skler | i need this hex | 18:21 |
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| Disconnect | http://pastebin.ca/340163 | 18:22 |
| keesj | who was talking about time? | 18:22 |
| keesj | tome | 18:23 |
| skler | good | 18:23 |
| skler | kb mac? | 18:23 |
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| Disconnect | nothing else is in /var/lib/bluetooth | 18:24 |
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| skler | cat names and see the mac of kb | 18:25 |
| skler | i need the hex of kb i don't know who is | 18:25 |
| Disconnect | 00:16:38:37:65:83 Think Outside Keyboard | 18:25 |
| skler | tnx! | 18:25 |
| skler | this is the hex: 0x002540!!!! | 18:25 |
| skler | THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 18:25 |
| Disconnect | all set? | 18:26 |
| skler | features cat | 18:27 |
| kkito | is doublepixel supported in the n800? | 18:27 |
| Disconnect | 00:16:38:37:65:83 BC02042808080000 | 18:27 |
| keesj | kkito, it was for the 770 | 18:28 |
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| kkito | keesj, and there are something similar to doublingpixel for the n800? | 18:29 |
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| skler | bad not work :/ | 18:31 |
| skler | hcitool lq 00:0A:3A:31:F9:45 | 18:31 |
| skler | Link quality: 255 | 18:31 |
| skler | it is connected but doesn't work | 18:31 |
| nomis | skler: are you sure that this keyboard uses the HID protocol? | 18:33 |
| skler | no | 18:33 |
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| skler | how can I check? | 18:34 |
| nomis | skler: the n800/770 only work with HID-protocol BT-keyboards. For others you probably need hacks. | 18:34 |
| skler | but how work? | 18:34 |
| nomis | skler: look into the documentation of the keyboard? | 18:34 |
| skler | there is nothing | 18:34 |
| nomis | skler: sorry, I don't know if someone already has managed to get a non-HID keyboard to work. | 18:35 |
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| nomis | skler: if the BT-keyboard does not announce its HID capability, then it probably can't do it. | 18:36 |
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| kkito | it is possible to change the X resolution to a lower one, in fullscreen apps? | 18:39 |
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| kkito | or the Xserver only support 800x480x16 ? | 18:39 |
| keesj | kkito, on the 770 for sdl apps yes, the result is a black border | 18:40 |
| keesj | openssh .install failed, | 18:41 |
| kkito | keesj, and on the n800? | 18:42 |
| keesj | idem | 18:43 |
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| MDK | xan: ping | 19:24 |
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| maddler | keesj: what's up? | 19:36 |
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| real-dev | hi, I'm a new n800 user, can anyone tell me what to use to produce screenshots on it? | 19:51 |
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| gpd | real-dev: there is a screenshot tool that you can run from the xterm | 20:01 |
| kender | keesj, are you there? | 20:02 |
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| Jaffa | Evening, all | 20:03 |
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| * Jaffa hopes to have some mud-hacking time this evening | 20:04 | |
| kender | hi Jaffa | 20:04 |
| Jaffa | hi kender | 20:05 |
| kender | I have tried to export the mouse (touchscreen) of the N800 using synergy, it works, but the mouse goes in steps, always "clicked" and little sensible, any fix for this? maybe changing the resolution? | 20:06 |
| maddler | Jaffa: heya | 20:07 |
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| timelyx | there's also an applet for the status bar that can take screen shots | 20:08 |
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| gpd | kender: hah - synergy on the tablet - nice idea :) | 20:12 |
| kender | gpd, :) | 20:12 |
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| timely | ping | 20:18 |
| timely | is anyone here familiar w/ garage? :) | 20:18 |
| tko | in what sense? | 20:19 |
| real-dev | gpd: thx | 20:19 |
| timely | well, i'd like to understand what controls who can check out a project | 20:19 |
| timely | i guess it's "enable anonymous access" | 20:20 |
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| * timely pokes tko | 20:22 | |
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| tko | never used gforge.. | 20:26 |
| * timely grumbles | 20:26 | |
| timely | can someone here please explain why a gpl project would have a private scm? | 20:27 |
| Fatal | hm? | 20:27 |
| timely | i think the question is clear | 20:27 |
| Fatal | i can't understand the question | 20:27 |
| Andy80 | I've found another bug in the apophis version of Scratchbox | 20:28 |
| timely | #define scm svc_repo | 20:28 |
| Fatal | you must have something specific in mind which makes the question perfectly clear for you | 20:28 |
| timely | #define gpl_project alarmd | 20:28 |
| Andy80 | whenever I logout from it, the dsp is busy and all my desktop application cannot access to sound | 20:28 |
| timely | fatal: is that actually useful? | 20:29 |
| Fatal | maybe the developer don't have it on a machine he trusts, don't trust the scm to be secure enough, don't want outside help, maybe he only invites those who have the need to use the scm, etc etc | 20:29 |
| Fatal | there are a tonnes of reasons | 20:29 |
| Fatal | s/a // | 20:29 |
| timely | by private i don't mean prohibiting read write | 20:29 |
| timely | i mean prohibiting read | 20:29 |
| Fatal | but that's just in general, for his specific reasons you might want to ask him | 20:29 |
| Fatal | i can understand it | 20:30 |
| * timely doesn't really feel like hacking gforge | 20:31 | |
| Fatal | hum?why would you? | 20:31 |
| timely | because i probably could and it'd make my life easier | 20:32 |
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| Fatal | so, if you hate the guy enough to think his values are complete and utter shit, why the hell use his software? Really. | 20:32 |
| Fatal | *plonk* | 20:32 |
| timely | oh, i'm not using his software particularly | 20:32 |
| timely | i'm sorta enabling people to look at all the hosted software | 20:33 |
| timely | and i'd rather not manually add myself to each and every project | 20:33 |
| timely | given that there are something like a hundred and seventy two of them | 20:33 |
| * timely wonders if svn has a "don't ask me for my password, i don't really care about this repository" flag | 20:34 | |
| *** qgil changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Progarm is over, thanks to everybody | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 20:36 | |
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| * timely supposes --non-interactive should work | 20:37 | |
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| ajturner | is there a flash yet for 3.0 on Mac? | 20:39 |
| timely | what's mac? | 20:39 |
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| qgil | ajturner: no, as far as I'm aware | 20:41 |
| ajturner | I haven't seen one, but figured I'd ask here to make sure I didn't miss it or it was just lurking ;( | 20:42 |
| ajturner | need to get root | 20:42 |
| timely | oh, you mean flasher | 20:43 |
| timely | not flash plugin or file that is flashable | 20:43 |
| * timely sighs | 20:43 | |
| xan | MDK, pong | 20:43 |
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| ajturner | timely - yes | 20:49 |
| ajturner | sorry :) wasn't clear | 20:49 |
| ajturner | flasher | 20:49 |
| koen | heh | 20:51 |
| koen | "Does the camera in the N800 support the X11 Xv extension?" | 20:51 |
| Robot101 | hmm | 20:53 |
| Robot101 | yes, if you put the battery in upside-down it works as a projector!!!11ONE | 20:53 |
| sp3000 | Progarm! | 20:55 |
| *** sp3000 changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program is over, thanks to everybody | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 20:55 | |
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| jacques | heh | 20:55 |
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| * timely decides to try to get perl64 happy | 20:56 | |
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| s-ndh-c | MDK: thx for that great mono article in the wiki and the ready to use tarballs | 21:15 |
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| s-ndh-c | didnt manage to build gtk-sharp on my own | 21:17 |
| s-ndh-c | now it will be much easier to use mono with the n770/n800 | 21:18 |
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| alp | maybe we can get packaging sorted and have maemo debs put out at the same time as novell's packages | 21:18 |
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| s-ndh-c | would be great | 21:20 |
| qgil | it would be good if MDK or any other simians would explain how far you can go with Mono and the internet tablets | 21:20 |
| alp | wonder what applications would make sense on the device | 21:20 |
| keesj | I packaged and tested cwiid for the n770 ! http://www.wiili.org/index.php/CWiid | 21:20 |
| alp | i had some patches to make f-spot work better on the n700 a year ago or so | 21:20 |
| alp | rebuilding debian's packages may be worth investigating. they are very split out, which may be hassle (though originally the idea behind splitting it out was to target smaller devices which don't need all the features) | 21:22 |
| alp | i'll pick up my device from the mail room this week. MDK has made a great start | 21:25 |
| tko | the problem with rebuilding debian packages is that we'd need all the build dependencies, and there's sometimes lots of extra dependencies because everyone loves features :) | 21:27 |
| tko | the debian eabi port might be interesting for picking up binary packages | 21:27 |
| alp | i don't know, maybe there is also value to having one monolithic mono deb which has gtk-sharp, hildon bindings and osso built in | 21:28 |
| MDK | xan, tko: after some investigation, I think it's not easily possible to fix minimum-visible-bars at the HildonControlbar level | 21:28 |
| MDK | the patch in gtk modifies the function that translates the x,y coords into bar value | 21:29 |
| alp | certainly people like to download one file and install it by hand. i don't know if people are using the apt-like updater in maemo now | 21:29 |
| tko | MDK, did we really need it? I thought it was used only in one place and even there only when the widget is made insensitive | 21:29 |
| keesj | alp: with the new download site the .install file will become popular (if they work) and that is apt-get like | 21:30 |
| MDK | tko: the problem is, we use the altered behaviour in most places | 21:30 |
| MDK | altered behaviour = minimum visible bars > 0 | 21:30 |
| jtra | hey, this is my first step to implement translucent keyboard in xterm - http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/tmp/xterm-translucent.png (see that semi transparent picture over vte area) - cool, right? :) | 21:30 |
| MDK | we usually use m-v-b=1 | 21:30 |
| alp | oh, and we definitely need to make a decision on which assemblies to ship. i am pretty sure it makes sense to completely omit the 1.0 profile | 21:32 |
| keesj | jtra: are you hackinng the xterm or someting else? | 21:32 |
| MDK | alp: people don't use apt, but dependencies do | 21:33 |
| jtra | keesj: libvte, which is used by osso-xterm | 21:33 |
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| Veggen | alp: it definitely bothers me that an apt-get upgrade is dangerous, btw :) | 21:34 |
| Andy80 | I've just installed Canola on my n770. When I start it I see an image, then the program crashes... is it a known bug? | 21:34 |
| alp | Veggen: yeah, i learnt that some time ago. i guess these are the mistakes that were made that are slowly being reconciled | 21:34 |
| Veggen | people coming from a Linux/Debian background, will find that highly annoying. | 21:35 |
| timely | andry80: i think you need to configure it | 21:35 |
| Andy80 | timely: how can I configure it if it crashes without letting me do anything? | 21:35 |
| timely | the configure app is a different menuitem | 21:35 |
| alp | Veggen: they chose the right tools, but in the cases of deb/gtk+ took a slightly odd approach, but i am confident now that everyone knows how to get over that | 21:35 |
| Andy80 | timely: where is? | 21:36 |
| * timely shrugs | 21:36 | |
| timely | there aren't that many menus :) | 21:36 |
| Andy80 | ok, i search :) | 21:36 |
| keesj | Veggen, why should they get annoyed? | 21:37 |
| Veggen | keesj: because it's natural that one wants to keep the programs up-to-date? | 21:37 |
| c0ffee | i figured out that using apt-get over ssh is far easier on the tablet :) | 21:37 |
| keesj | Veggen, so what bothers you?(sorry I really don't understand) | 21:38 |
| keesj | the .install bothers me and the gui application manager | 21:38 |
| alp | i think i was disappointed that the original maemo release didn't work as a new debian port, building up on the emdebian work | 21:39 |
| Veggen | keesj: apt-get upgrade should *not* break the box :) it's the normal way to treat a Debian system? | 21:39 |
| keesj | and the binary .deb files and that I don't know if I can thrust the basic packages like openssl | 21:39 |
| Andy80 | timely: found... but I think there are a lot of bugs! If I click on Feeds "File canola-feeds.html doesn't exist", similar thing if I click on "+" in Media Collection... and I've no themes installed... | 21:39 |
| Andy80 | timely: is it possible I've added a wrong repository? | 21:39 |
| timely | andy80: um | 21:40 |
| timely | did i mention that i haven't actually /used/ this thing? :) | 21:40 |
| timely | i've just seen it crash :) | 21:40 |
| Andy80 | ah ok :) | 21:40 |
| * timely ponders | 21:41 | |
| timely | is mv going to do the wrong thing for /dev? :( | 21:41 |
| xan | MDK, we'll have to give it some thinking tomorrow then | 21:48 |
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| jaebird | mono on the tablet (as a supported framework) would be really cool | 21:50 |
| jaebird | I could see a mini-banshee like media app being nice to have...like an open source canola | 21:51 |
| tko | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT6YO30GhmQ - clear proof that vista did not copy from mac os x :) | 21:51 |
| shackan | canola is closed !?! | 21:51 |
| timely | closed? | 21:51 |
| timely | it certainly isn't open :) | 21:51 |
| shackan | wow, didn't know that | 21:51 |
| jaebird | AFAIK...would be nice if they switched licenses :) | 21:52 |
| timely | are you sure you want to see the code? | 21:52 |
| jaebird | heh | 21:52 |
| timely | this past year i learned a very effective curse | 21:53 |
| timely | may you see the source code | 21:53 |
| timely | :) | 21:53 |
| timely | a worse variant of course is: may you be forced to edit one line of the source code | 21:53 |
| timely | there are even worse variants involving may you be forced to maintain the source code | 21:53 |
| tko | timely, you touched it, you own it | 21:54 |
| timely | it's a very good curse | 21:54 |
| jaebird | yeah...true, but if the people behind closed source get hit by a bus or go bankrupt you are SOL | 21:54 |
| timely | although i kinda prefer you looked at it you bought it | 21:54 |
| timely | jaebird: *shrug* | 21:54 |
| timely | what happens if the authors get arrested? | 21:55 |
| timely | for example, maybe they are accused of killing their wife? | 21:55 |
| tko | http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/1574 | 21:55 |
| jaebird | ouch | 21:55 |
| shackan | timely, that was low... | 21:55 |
| timely | i could probably answer the question in that context | 21:56 |
| timely | but for some reason they never made me a peer :| | 21:56 |
| jaebird | alp: saw the discussion on mono earlier | 21:56 |
| timely | shackan: sorry, it's fitting | 21:56 |
| timely | the thing about closed source is that if the product makes money | 21:56 |
| timely | you usually are willing to hire someone to learn and maintain it | 21:56 |
| timely | if the thing isn't making money, then why are you using or stealing it? | 21:57 |
| timely | i'm not necessarily actively defending closed source | 21:57 |
| timely | but people who claim closed source has these problems better make sure their backyards don't have worse skeletons | 21:57 |
| timely | and well, that skeleton's pretty hard to overlook | 21:58 |
| * timely frowns | 22:02 | |
| timely | there's cosyhome and cosy-home in garage? | 22:02 |
| keesj | yes, the project first was rejected but apparently the created two project afterwards | 22:04 |
| Andy80 | I've a problem with a process on n770: it seems that dpkg is running and I cannot kill it. I open a terminal, I become root, I look for its PID (1335) and I do: kill -9 1335 | 22:06 |
| Andy80 | no errors, but no killing at all :( | 22:07 |
| Andy80 | how can I kill it? | 22:07 |
| Andy80 | I tried to reboot too, but nothing changes | 22:07 |
| timely | reboot doesn't fix it?! | 22:07 |
| Andy80 | no :( | 22:07 |
| Andy80 | it's strange anyway, that root cannot kill a process | 22:07 |
| suihkulokki | timely: well, perfectly profitable closed source software products have been killed for the most strangest reasons before, so it is a real fear | 22:08 |
| suihkulokki | for example rav antivirus | 22:08 |
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| Andy80 | timely: the proc info is this: 1335 root 2100 D N /usr/bin/dpkg --status-fd 26 --force-depends --force-remove-essential --remove canola avahi-daemon canola-applet canola-conf libca | 22:10 |
| * timely chuckles | 22:10 | |
| * timely looks for the "no warrantee sign" that ships w/ canola | 22:10 | |
| timely | you did backup your device and package info before installing it, right? :) | 22:11 |
| Andy80 | timely: why? | 22:11 |
| Andy80 | :( | 22:11 |
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| Andy80 | do I need to reflash my device? | 22:14 |
| Andy80 | any suggestions? | 22:17 |
| shackan | is it possible to boot the n800 from usb? | 22:17 |
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| timely | or mmc in theory | 22:18 |
| timely | there's a flag you can give to flasher specifying the boot device | 22:18 |
| timely | you might even be able to boot from nfs, but i can't remember :) | 22:18 |
| timely | i suppose i could check | 22:18 |
| Andy80 | timely: any ideas before reflashing my whole device? | 22:19 |
| timely | andy80: i'm not the expert, i just break things :) | 22:20 |
| timely | personally i tend to pull out gdb, strace, and friends | 22:20 |
| timely | but you can't really use dpkg to install them :) | 22:20 |
| Andy80 | I cannot kill dpkg | 22:20 |
| Andy80 | this is the problem | 22:20 |
| shackan | timeless, is it possible to boot from my laptop via usb? (ie: make it appear as usb storage) | 22:21 |
| timely | ok, flash, mmc and usb are the listed boot devices | 22:22 |
| shackan | cool, what about what I said? | 22:23 |
| timely | dunno, i take it you don't have any usb keys? | 22:23 |
| shackan | I do | 22:23 |
| shackan | but I wanted to avoid a lot of key swapping | 22:24 |
| timely | why not setup one of those? | 22:24 |
| shackan | because its faster, make kernel -> drop somewhere on you laptop -> reboot tablet -> debug | 22:24 |
| * timely shrugs, nothing's impossible | 22:27 | |
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| tko | MDK, I think you didn't really test the HIG definitions, did you? :) | 22:44 |
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| Andy80 | timely: just reflashed with latest firmware -_- | 22:55 |
| jhe | Andy80: you didn't have the charging cable plugged in when you rebooted, did you? When it is plugged the device doesn't really shut down when you try to turn it off from the UI (instead it just changes to a special "acting dead" runlevel), and that would explain why your dpkg process didn't go away. | 23:02 |
| c0ffee | hey jhe | 23:03 |
| jhe | c0ffee: hi | 23:03 |
| c0ffee | any news on the bt stuff? :) | 23:03 |
| jhe | nope :-/ | 23:03 |
| jhe | hopefully next week | 23:03 |
| Andy80 | jhe: yes, it was a charging cable problem at the beginning, but the apt system was compromised, I explain: after killing dpkg I tried to: apt-get remove canola, and the reply was: Abort. | 23:03 |
| c0ffee | would be great :) | 23:03 |
| Andy80 | jhe: Now I've flashed with latest os2006 firmware (v3) | 23:04 |
| Andy80 | jhe: ony a question about repository: os2006 v3 should be "scirocco" version, right? Repositories available on http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories only talks about "mistral" and no "scirocco" what should I write when I add a repository? | 23:05 |
| c0ffee | mistral is correct for os2006 | 23:06 |
| jhe | yep | 23:06 |
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| Andy80 | and... why some repository tell me to use "scirocco" ? Who should use "scirocco" then? | 23:07 |
| * jhe actually has very little clue about the different version codenames | 23:07 | |
| c0ffee | that's for developing stuff | 23:07 |
| tko | we're fairly confused when it comes to release names :) | 23:08 |
| tko | as far as I've understood it, os2006 v1 <-> mistral, v2 <-> scirocco, v3 <-> gregale | 23:09 |
| tko | the sane way would've been to call the whole os2006 series mistral, but oh well... | 23:10 |
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| sp3000 | so when is someone going to draw pretty roadmap / naming pictures :) | 23:13 |
| keesj | roadmap? | 23:14 |
| keesj | about the maemo history? | 23:14 |
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| * tko pretends to be busy | 23:15 | |
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| c0ffee | is the source code of one of those wizard apps available? | 23:24 |
| c0ffee | like where you can configure a new internet connection | 23:25 |
| tko | nope | 23:26 |
| qgil | sp3000: what you mean by pretty roadmap / naming pictures? | 23:29 |
| c0ffee | sadly, i suck a lot at gui design | 23:29 |
| c0ffee | all my attempts to come up with a similar wizzard are saying "i suck at gui" all over them | 23:29 |
| qgil | fwiw, since a couple of days I'm the "owner" of http://maemo.org/platform/docs/roadmap.html | 23:31 |
| qgil | I'm talking with people in OSSO team to see how to update that page | 23:31 |
| tko | "Major updates: gtk - based on 2.6.10" :) | 23:31 |
| tko | only slightly outdated | 23:32 |
| inz | c0ffee, you need to consult tigert ;) | 23:33 |
| c0ffee | hu? | 23:33 |
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| c0ffee | ah, he's doing the wizzards? | 23:33 |
| tko | tricky.. do we really want to give away our advanced UI designs? :) | 23:33 |
| c0ffee | hehe | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | what about a wizzard widget | 23:34 |
| qgil | I also asked at http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/007527.html about suggestions to be integrated in the roadmap, but no feedback (perhaps we deserve it) ;) | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | you feed it with some xml and it executes the configuration itself | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | qgil, 404 :) | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | hupos | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | my fault | 23:35 |
| sp3000 | qgil: something to relate the various repo and release names and numbers at a glance, I guess | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | well, let's answer then | 23:35 |
| qgil | sp3000: then more than a roadmap you need a maemo map | 23:36 |
| inz | c0ffee, he doesn't make the wizards, but he can help with GUI d'sign | 23:36 |
| qgil | sp3000: yeah, in my to-do list as well | 23:36 |
| sp3000 | whatevermap :) | 23:36 |
| qgil | well, roadmap means timeline and getting an idea of repositories etc means "space" | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | qgil, somebody answered your mail | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | qgil, and he actually pinned down the worst point of maemo | 23:37 |
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| c0ffee | qgil, we definitely need a way to for vpn plugins that integrate nicely in the normal network management | 23:38 |
| c0ffee | qgil, a 'configure vpn for this connection' in the advanced config options for connections | 23:38 |
| c0ffee | qgil, and some dbus mechanizm to start and stop vpn daemons during network connection | 23:38 |
| qgil | I see | 23:40 |
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| qgil | the problem of definitions comes again :) | 23:40 |
| c0ffee | what problem is that? | 23:40 |
| sp3000 | qgil: both, really, as in, how the space evolves | 23:40 |
| qgil | I was thinking of a roadmap of the development platform, not the whole Maemo-understood-as-the-platform | 23:40 |
| sp3000 | having a time axis to the space map helps, hence the pretty picture thing | 23:41 |
| c0ffee | well :) | 23:41 |
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| tko | qgil, hmm, what's the difference? :) | 23:41 |
| c0ffee | have you ever developed using a self-compiled crosschain? | 23:41 |
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| c0ffee | there's not much you could improve with the scratchbox setup from that point of view | 23:41 |
| c0ffee | imho maemo as a complete product feels too much like carved in stone | 23:42 |
| c0ffee | 3rd party software is forced to come with a clumsy hack look & feel because many essential applications still aren't extensible | 23:43 |
| c0ffee | so i'd like to see apis for such stuff on the roadmap :) | 23:43 |
| qgil | c0ffee: concatenate your chat sentences in an email answering my call and it will be much more useful, believe me | 23:43 |
| keesj | you can't have both the source and good api's :p but one of them is usually required | 23:44 |
| qgil | yes, point the weak points of the development platform you think we should work on | 23:45 |
| qgil | the more precise you are pointing and explaining weaknesses, the better | 23:45 |
| qgil | let me explain | 23:47 |
| qgil | in our team I'm playing a role of, say, the advocate of the external developers | 23:47 |
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| qgil | I need to bring inside everything that makes life easier and happier to external developers | 23:48 |
| c0ffee | does this mean you scream and bitch at the others all day long? :) | 23:48 |
| tko | c0ffee, hope so :) | 23:48 |
| qgil | but then I face several factors, typical in any project: resources available, deadlines, other interests, other views... | 23:48 |
| qgil | this is why we need to priorituize, negotiate and plan steps forward that a) make sense and b) we can effectively make | 23:49 |
| qgil | when we add something the roadmap (now) it is because we think we will achieve it, if not we don put it | 23:50 |
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| keesj | what about trying to achieve things that are impossible for normal developers (full support for all that nice hardware and java) that sounds such a quick win | 23:51 |
| qgil | I want to add more flexibility, ina kind of Wishlist that allows us to identify desired progress without committing ourselves - as many free software projects do with their roadmaps | 23:51 |
| tko | IMO we should also put 'not yet' things into our roadmaps, maybe with a 'help wanted' sign attached | 23:51 |
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| c0ffee | tko, yeah, that would be useful | 23:51 |
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| * cworth still can't find the "first steps with the n800" document he's looking for | 23:52 | |
| tko | I mean there's only so much we can do ourselves | 23:52 |
| qgil | tko: yes, I also think this is the way | 23:52 |
| c0ffee | tko, i can think of one or two things, I want to have done myself, but apart from that, a clear sign 'here help is wanted' would be needed | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | Definitely. | 23:52 |
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| cworth | For starters, I'd just like to be able to connect to this device over ssh. Where are instructions on doing that? | 23:52 |
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| c0ffee | install dropbear-server | 23:52 |
| tko | in the wiki :-] | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | So far the problem's been that Nokia's plans are so closed, and tied to Maemo, that any direction on Maemo has to come from Nokia to be accepted, but a "help wanted" might spoil future product plans :-/ | 23:53 |
| c0ffee | cworth, it's in one of the 'howtogetroot' wiki entries | 23:53 |
| cworth | The wiki could definitely use some treatment like this page has: | 23:53 |
| cworth | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/how-to.html | 23:53 |
| c0ffee | it's a wiki | 23:53 |
| c0ffee | feel free | 23:53 |
| cworth | That is, noting which documents apply to n800 as equally as to n770. | 23:53 |
| cworth | c0ffee: Sure, but I don't know any of the details (...yet). | 23:54 |
| qgil | Jaffa: yes, you are pointing to one of my current tasks :) | 23:54 |
| cworth | c0ffee: So in the wiki I'm seeing "Step 1: Point your browser to [WWW] Xterm DEB and then to [WWW] Dropbear DEB". Do we not have things set up to be able to install this stuff through the "Application Manager" program yet? | 23:56 |
| qgil | there are ways to solve the equation, though - generally Nokia don't rely on volunteerism to get the help needed in order to develop the core product plans: Nokia hires, Nokia contracts, this is what companies do | 23:56 |
| c0ffee | if you feed the 2007 repositories to your app manager, you can just install them from there | 23:56 |
| tko | c0ffee, you mean all 20 of them? :) | 23:57 |
| qgil | this is why I insist in enhancements for the benefit of the own external developers (aka you) | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Agreed, however if I was being cynical, I'd say Nokia need all the help they can get | 23:57 |
| c0ffee | tko, you're on the safe side then, right? :) | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | In fact, that's not cynical. The cynical bit is pointing out all the little niggles in the N800 which many eyes might've made shallow before release (not that I wouldn't want my N800 when I got it ;-)) | 23:57 |
| qgil | Jaffa: of course, but the help we want from developers like you will come if we help you getting the results you expect to get in your developments | 23:58 |
| c0ffee | qgil, well, the developer device program is kind of a signal that nokia can do different as well | 23:58 |
| svu | I heard, new firmware is supposed to be released soon? | 23:58 |
| cworth | c0ffee: Which repositories? I see at least 7 "2007" repositories listed here: | 23:59 |
| cworth | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories | 23:59 |
| c0ffee | maemo-hackers for the xterm | 23:59 |
| c0ffee | no idea in which the dropbear-server is, sorry :/ | 23:59 |
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