| svu | maddler, no, just .deb/.install which could be installed smoothly ? or at least patch for maemo gui... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| koos | where did the gtk channel go? (seemed desynced on irc.gimp.org | 00:02 |
| maddler | if I'm not wrong there should be a port | 00:02 |
| maddler | checked on maemo.org? | 00:02 |
| svu | maddler, yes. could not find anything | 00:03 |
| maddler | it's not here... hehe | 00:03 |
| svu | it is only mentioned in the python tutorial | 00:04 |
| maddler | svu... someone was talking about that on maemo-users list | 00:04 |
| maddler | not sure btw | 00:04 |
| svu | maddler, yes, I started the thread :) anyway, I'll ask in the maillist | 00:05 |
| maddler | oh, doh! | 00:06 |
| svu | :)) | 00:06 |
| svu | bashpodder is not good - it requires xsltproc | 00:07 |
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| maddler | I'm not in the pods stuff... | 00:09 |
| maddler | but why not using media player? | 00:10 |
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| pbrook | Oooh! That's interesting. When I disable WEP my wireless connection magically starts working properly. | 00:31 |
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| MDK | Did anybody notice a problem of the interal sd card 'disappearing' after some time? | 00:38 |
| MDK | seems to happen always to me some time after reboot | 00:39 |
| garrett | I see that happening sometimes, for either | 00:40 |
| garrett | I notice that if I open up the cover and close it again (either battery or sd for the external), then it notices them again | 00:41 |
| garrett | I've had it happen maybe twice | 00:41 |
| garrett | could've been 3 times | 00:41 |
| MDK | garrett: you're using the 'bundled' mmc? | 00:41 |
| garrett | yup | 00:41 |
| garrett | that's one of them | 00:41 |
| garrett | the one on the inside | 00:41 |
| garrett | the other is a no-name 1g sd I got for $15 from a local computer place | 00:42 |
| garrett | it seems to happen around the time I'm doing transfer stuff with the computer mostly | 00:42 |
| garrett | I think once it didn't | 00:42 |
| garrett | so yeah, I guess it happened 3 times then | 00:42 |
| garrett | been crazy days at work lately, so everything's a bit gaussian blurred (; | 00:43 |
| garrett | I have noticed some things on the N800 that I would suggest improving UI-wise and such, but I have been really enjoying it overall (and some UI things are just totally wonderful) | 00:44 |
| garrett | I _love_ the thumb-touch detection | 00:44 |
| garrett | ...just wished more stuff used that (; | 00:45 |
| MDK | yeah | 00:45 |
| garrett | and the menus, especially in thumb-touch mode, need a little bit of work | 00:45 |
| MDK | tigert's theme is cool (plankton) | 00:45 |
| garrett | perhaps something like the slab (main menu)? | 00:45 |
| garrett | yeah, I like it; it's nice and clean w/o distracting shinyness | 00:46 |
| garrett | the others are interesting, but I think I like the cleaner look better | 00:46 |
| garrett | I'll have to look into theme development for it | 00:46 |
| MDK | yeah, the task navigator thumb menu implementation sucks | 00:46 |
| garrett | yup | 00:46 |
| MDK | but the idea is good | 00:46 |
| garrett | yeah | 00:47 |
| garrett | I'm sure it will imrpove with time too | 00:47 |
| garrett | improve even | 00:47 |
| garrett | heh | 00:47 |
| garrett | I wish the screen wasn't *so* inset also | 00:47 |
| garrett | but that's a hardware thing | 00:47 |
| MDK | we plan to improve it, yes | 00:47 |
| svu | maddler, media player is - but I want some app to fetch podcast during the night so in the morning I'd listen to them while driving the car | 00:47 |
| garrett | yeah totally | 00:47 |
| MDK | (i mean - task menu) | 00:48 |
| garrett | the media player needs a bit of usability love, I think | 00:48 |
| MDK | heh, that's mildly said ;) | 00:48 |
| garrett | (; | 00:48 |
| garrett | and having the ability to subscribe to podcasts -- including video ones -- would be AWESOME | 00:48 |
| garrett | then one wouldn't have to "sync" to get those | 00:49 |
| garrett | or copy anything over | 00:49 |
| garrett | the video ones would probably be a little tricky, though, of course | 00:49 |
| garrett | just due to not being optimally encoded (or even unsupported codecs) | 00:50 |
| garrett | but at least audio podcasts could work w/o problems | 00:50 |
| MDK | yes, that's true | 00:51 |
| ferulo | garrett: xan and me are thinking about writing a GJ article about maemo platform making a podcast-listener app | 00:51 |
| garrett | actually | 00:51 |
| garrett | I don't even care if podcasting were a seperate app | 00:51 |
| MDK | i hope that once mono is up and running we'll get more of this kind of apps | 00:51 |
| garrett | although it would be nice to have it in the same media player as other things | 00:51 |
| MDK | since it's easier to write them | 00:51 |
| garrett | MDK: yeah | 00:52 |
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| garrett | I was trying to convince abock to port banshee over (; | 00:52 |
| MDK | with C doing any more advanced networking is... lot's of work | 00:52 |
| garrett | he seemed to show some interest in it | 00:53 |
| MDK | we have python already, having mono should cover a really wide area of possible developers/opportunities | 00:54 |
| hap | i want a better launched, palm like, big icons, no menu. | 00:57 |
| hap | a better launcher | 00:57 |
| MDK | pocket banshee would blow our mediaplayer to pieces ;) | 01:01 |
| garrett | MDK: totally | 01:02 |
| garrett | MDK: then you guys have to ship the new stuff | 01:02 |
| hap | pocket banshee, whats that? | 01:03 |
| garrett | I want the slab, well, not the full-blown slab, but slab concepts | 01:03 |
| garrett | some hybrid of palm os launchers and the slab would probably work well instead of the current menu system | 01:03 |
| hap | garrett: slab, do you have url ? | 01:04 |
| garrett | hap: what's in SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, and now is in GNOME upstream too... hold on a min, lemme find a pic | 01:04 |
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| pbrook | Could we use the applet plugins in the current menu system? | 01:04 |
| MDK | hap: banshee is an itunes-alike mediaplayer for linux/gnome | 01:05 |
| garrett | I googled for a pciture | 01:05 |
| MDK | very usable | 01:05 |
| garrett | http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1940/screenshotgnomemainmenu2eb.png | 01:05 |
| garrett | of course, I have tons of screenshots and such, but I think they're all at private URLs | 01:05 |
| garrett | that's just somebody's random screenshot with bad fonts | 01:05 |
| pbrook | So users could remove all the rss crud and replace it with single launcher applet. | 01:05 |
| wumpus | what size to use for the maemo app icon? | 01:06 |
| hap | banshee, urgh, ugly application, just looked at it | 01:06 |
| garrett | basically, there's a button a user clicks on the panel and it pops up something that provides quick access to useful things | 01:06 |
| hap | garrett: private url for screenshot, so you can take a look at them ? :) | 01:06 |
| garrett | hap: well, I work for Novell, and designed the slab a good bit (; | 01:06 |
| garrett | we put it through usability tests and all that | 01:07 |
| garrett | but basically, the idea was to make things nice and easy to click, quick to access, etc. | 01:07 |
| garrett | it's actually not unlike the palm os app launcher in some respects | 01:07 |
| hap | garrett: is slab and banshee related? | 01:08 |
| garrett | on the N800, I'd suggest that a launcher thing would be fullscreen | 01:08 |
| garrett | hap: both Novell stuff, both open source, both use GTK+ | 01:08 |
| hap | garrett: i suggest it would be fullscreen if we push the fullscreen hardware button | 01:08 |
| hap | but at least something like iphone or palm, with tab for sections, would be much more than welcome | 01:09 |
| garrett | hap: no, I mean the launcher should fill the screen | 01:09 |
| hap | the current menu is a pain in the ass | 01:09 |
| garrett | yeah | 01:09 |
| garrett | especially in fat finger mode | 01:09 |
| garrett | I also don't really like the categorization of the menu | 01:09 |
| hap | and you can't use your fingers with it, it takes 4 secondes from the top to bottom, keeping your finger on the down arrow | 01:09 |
| garrett | as it makes everything go in extra | 01:09 |
| garrett | very few things are web, for instance | 01:09 |
| hap | anyone at nokia who would have used that menu with his finger would have noticed, i don't get it. | 01:09 |
| hap | (within a day of use) | 01:10 |
| garrett | under web, it has "web" and "bookmarks" | 01:10 |
| garrett | not that useful | 01:10 |
| hap | yeah | 01:10 |
| garrett | hap: yeah | 01:10 |
| hap | garrett: yeah, the launcher should fill the scf | 01:10 |
| hap | fill the screen | 01:10 |
| garrett | this is why the menu should flow to the side and fill the screen | 01:10 |
| hap | i want drag&drop to change the top left 3 icons applications, to change them and put things i run often. | 01:11 |
| hap | like dock on osx | 01:11 |
| garrett | then if you have to scroll more info in, it should do so quickly, a page at a time (preferably with a quick animation) | 01:11 |
| garrett | also, it's a royal pain to close an app when using your fingers | 01:11 |
| hap | yeah, but a launcher with palm like look would prevent you from having a menu at all. | 01:11 |
| garrett | the screen is sunk in and you have a very small target area in the top right | 01:11 |
| hap | garrett: mostly when a modal windows pops up on top of it.... | 01:11 |
| garrett | ditto for minizing things, but I don't understand the point of mimizing things -- there's a switcher and you can get back to the clean home area anyway | 01:12 |
| hap | i agree | 01:12 |
| garrett | so I'd suggest doing away with minimizing things, and making the close button larger | 01:12 |
| garrett | actually | 01:12 |
| garrett | I think I'll write some of this up | 01:12 |
| garrett | probably do some stuff on a wiki | 01:12 |
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| hap | garrett: the sean's article list lots of features i d want | 01:13 |
| MDK | garrett: go ahead | 01:13 |
| garrett | is that the Newton one? | 01:13 |
| hap | yeah | 01:13 |
| garrett | yeah, I read that and totally agreed with most all of it | 01:13 |
| hap | same here | 01:13 |
| garrett | of course, that's before I had the device, but I read up on it first | 01:13 |
| garrett | *g* | 01:13 |
| hap | all he listed, i had the problem within 1 day of use (without having read his article yet) | 01:14 |
| garrett | yup | 01:14 |
| hap | i want velocity when i scroll down on a webpage | 01:14 |
| hap | iPhone like | 01:14 |
| MDK | garrett: you have the great advantage of acually knowing something about gtk etc. | 01:14 |
| garrett | the N800 is great and shows a lot of promise, but it could be much more than it currently is with tweakage, most software | 01:14 |
| garrett | MDK: true | 01:14 |
| garrett | I can probably made some changes myself here even | 01:15 |
| hap | well Gtk isn't that hard | 01:15 |
| hap | garrett: i'd like to see modal window on the bottom right the way Sean say it | 01:15 |
| garrett | hap: GTK+ themes can be a pain | 01:15 |
| MDK | so you know what's easily possible, what's impossible etc. | 01:15 |
| hap | not on the top right over the closing arrow. | 01:15 |
| hap | garrett: well theme is coming after, but Gtk is easy | 01:16 |
| hap | (i don't like Gtk at all in general, but well...) | 01:16 |
| MDK | hap: not for the designer to work with | 01:17 |
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| MDK | it's easy for the app developer, true | 01:17 |
| hap | I think compared to Apple, UI libraries sux in general. I would include Qt also (even it's a little better than Gtk), and WinForms. | 01:17 |
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| hap | One thing i hate about that N800, when I go out and I list the wifi network available | 01:17 |
| hap | it keeps updating the list, i can't select one to connect to | 01:18 |
| garrett | the best design decisions made about the device: 1) building it using open source software 2) deciding to make a UI that targets a tablet form factor | 01:18 |
| garrett | of course, there are others, but those are the top two, imho | 01:18 |
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| hap | it should list open network on top, so you can quickly choose, and display a green background or something so they are easy to see | 01:18 |
| garrett | a tablet with a desktop interface is just awful (: | 01:18 |
| MDK | we need a page to collect all this feedback | 01:19 |
| hap | garrett: well I don't think they realized 2 yet. | 01:19 |
| garrett | I see all the UMPC buzz and just go "ick" (well, outside it being Windows) | 01:19 |
| hap | sure, it's not like Windows CE, but it's not really optimized for small PDAs | 01:19 |
| MDK | those are valid issues (ie. the wifi list) | 01:19 |
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| hap | left menu is too large, (the icons) and you loose so much pixels on many cases | 01:19 |
| hap | MDK: maemo.dlfp.org - I did that quicly | 01:19 |
| garrett | it would be nice if the network thing worked like the network manager applet on the Linux desktop | 01:19 |
| hap | to list all my wishes | 01:20 |
| garrett | you click, it lists, you select; you're done | 01:20 |
| hap | MDK: i think anyone who would have actualy _tried_ to connect to wifi on the street would have noticed | 01:20 |
| garrett | could be a power issue with scanning though (; | 01:20 |
| hap | i don't get how they missed so many bothering things i get using this device | 01:20 |
| garrett | yeah | 01:20 |
| garrett | I agree | 01:20 |
| hap | they just didn't use it, i don't get, it's crazy :) | 01:21 |
| garrett | hap: thankfully most of this is fixable in software, and now people are hopefully going to address it all | 01:21 |
| garrett | (: | 01:21 |
| hap | MDK: my website has a RSS, you can create very easily accounts and add some. I did it because a wiki isn't good for that | 01:21 |
| MDK | if you don't make yourself vocal, we'll not hear you | 01:21 |
| hap | MDK: i didn't annoucne the website yet, i want to add content first. | 01:21 |
| hap | garrett: yeah, but i wonder if nokia just don't care | 01:22 |
| MDK | unfortunately, there are not many ui designers here | 01:22 |
| MDK | (but some are dropping by) | 01:22 |
| hap | MDK: well I'm not a designer, but _I_ do understsand I want the left icons to be as small as possible to have a large part for the application | 01:22 |
| hap | border should be smalls etc | 01:22 |
| MDK | wiki page would make more sense though | 01:23 |
| garrett | wiki makes the most sense | 01:23 |
| hap | MDK: for wishes, it sux when everyone add them, noone follow instructions | 01:23 |
| garrett | and, hey! maemo.org happens to have a wiki! | 01:23 |
| hap | the one one the maemo.org sux for wishes | 01:23 |
| garrett | (: | 01:23 |
| hap | i ll continue to use mine :) | 01:23 |
| MDK | need to go, but let's keep the topic up | 01:24 |
| garrett | yeah, totally | 01:24 |
| garrett | I think having tigert working on it will make it better too (; | 01:24 |
| garrett | ok, I'm heading home, so I'm leaving too | 01:25 |
| garrett | see you all later on | 01:25 |
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| Disconnect | hmm. pepper pad on woot for the next few mins. | 01:37 |
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| [mbm] | cool, 4G sd cards I ordered are already shipping | 02:20 |
| [mbm] | not entirely sure what I'll do with them but booting from mmc and playing around with the os is probably a good start | 02:21 |
| shackan | a 4g card for the os ? dude, it's not Vista :D | 02:22 |
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| [mbm] | shackan: partitioned | 02:26 |
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| svu | how would I stop am/pm madness and make it use normal 24hours? | 02:37 |
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| sri | howdy | 02:59 |
| sri | so, anybody know how to get an xterm on os2007 on an n800? | 02:59 |
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| [mbm] | sri: go to the app manager and install it | 03:02 |
| Robot101 | sri: put repository.maemo.org / bora / main into the app manager | 03:03 |
| sri | cool thanks | 03:03 |
| [mbm] | there's a whole list of 2007 repositories on maemo.org | 03:05 |
| [mbm] | you might also want to read about redpill mode | 03:05 |
| [mbm] | oh, and avoid upgrading busybox or you'll probably get stuck in a reboot loop | 03:05 |
| sri | [mbm]: yeah, I looked there, it's not a lot really. Like 5 or so. | 03:07 |
| [mbm] | you're not in redpill mode | 03:08 |
| [mbm] | oh, you mena 5 repositories | 03:08 |
| [mbm] | yeah | 03:08 |
| sri | Robot101: [mbm] no I mean only there are like 5 apps like python2.5, mplayer, gpe-todo | 03:10 |
| sri | Robot101: I tried to put that into the application manager, but it says it couldn't refresh the list, although it didn't actually give me an error oddly enough. | 03:10 |
| [mbm] | sri: then you need to go into redpill mode | 03:11 |
| sri | is there a pointer somewhere to do that? | 03:11 |
| sri | or is google search good enough? | 03:11 |
| * [mbm] currently has several pages of packages | 03:12 | |
| sri | hopefully, fer will write up how to set up a devel env for N800 | 03:12 |
| [mbm] | add a new repository, leave everything blank (defualts) but enter "matrix" for the url | 03:12 |
| [mbm] | (there's a page on the wiki describing it) | 03:12 |
| sri | https://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode? | 03:13 |
| [mbm] | yep | 03:13 |
| [mbm] | then you see all packages, not just the nokia signed ones | 03:13 |
| [mbm] | oh and if you do get stuck in a reboot loop you'll need to run flasher and switch to r&d before it'll boot normally again | 03:15 |
| wumpus | if you upgrade busybox you need to revert to the original image and fool around with the r&d switches, it's that destructive :) | 03:16 |
| wumpus | I was so glad when my device was back to normal | 03:17 |
| [mbm] | wumpus: yep | 03:17 |
| wumpus | I still don't understand why they offer the update | 03:17 |
| [mbm] | the app installer needs an 'ignore this package and never show it again' for hiding that broken busybox | 03:17 |
| wumpus | yeah or just remove the frigging thing | 03:18 |
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| [mbm] | weirdest thing is I can't even find the original version in any repositories | 03:18 |
| [mbm] | I knew something was screwed up after I installed it and my xterm wouldn't work | 03:18 |
| [mbm] | and I tried to uninstall it but couldnt find any other versions | 03:18 |
| [mbm] | then I had the bright idea that maybe I needed to reboot | 03:19 |
| [mbm] | :/ | 03:19 |
| sri | so I get dev packages, but that's about it. | 03:19 |
| sri | I'm missing something. | 03:19 |
| sri | and python2.5 doesn't install. | 03:19 |
| [mbm] | you're probably missing a repository | 03:20 |
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| wumpus | one of the many :p | 03:20 |
| sri | is there a place I can go to get the repos? | 03:21 |
| [mbm] | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories | 03:21 |
| sri | cool, thank you. | 03:22 |
| [mbm] | not really much to see in the 2007 repos though | 03:22 |
| [mbm] | tons of dev packages and only a handful of apps | 03:23 |
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| sri | thats more like it | 03:30 |
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| nelson | Hmmmm..... spontaneous reboot on my N800. Not a good sign. | 04:43 |
| rev | hrmmm | 04:59 |
| rev | definately not. | 04:59 |
| soleblaze | nelson: not abnormal unfortunately | 05:03 |
| soleblaze | anyone here know the repository that has midnight commander for the n800? | 05:04 |
| nelson | Well, at least if the problem is widespread, the solution will be forthcoming. | 05:04 |
| jacques | nelson, were you doing anything in particular when it rebooted? | 05:04 |
| jacques | does the lifeguard-reset (?) file say why it rebooted? | 05:05 |
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| rev | doh! | 05:11 |
| * rev just found out his N800's USB port works as a mass storage device! | 05:11 | |
| Disconnect | its unfortunately not uncommon on mine. 36 hrs is the max uptime :( dsp-related reboots | 05:11 |
| rev | i figured it had some special protocol, like the other linux PDAs | 05:11 |
| Disconnect | rev: erm. put it down, go into the other room, dig out the box, and look inside. there's a manual. check it out :) | 05:11 |
| Disconnect | at least skim it | 05:12 |
| Disconnect | (iirc it doesn't talk about the internal memory slot though, but otherwise seems ok) | 05:12 |
| rev | Disconnect: not w/ my N800- there isn't much of a manual, just a little poster... | 05:12 |
| rev | Disconnect: that said, there is a PDF'd manual on the internal flash. that said, manuals aren't my thing | 05:13 |
| Disconnect | yah sorry, forgot there wasn't anything useful printed up | 05:13 |
| rev | Disconnect: yeah, it doesn't do the internal flash, but it did mount *both* the SD cards i had installed, which is awesome | 05:13 |
| jacques | supposedly *both* SD slots should be visible as mass storage | 05:13 |
| Disconnect | (he's gonna be amazed in a couple months when he discovers it can do wifi ;) ;) ..) | 05:13 |
| jacques | lol | 05:13 |
| vol | hey, anyone have issues with the new kernel that supports sdhc? | 05:15 |
| rev | jacques: yeah, like i sez- they both are! | 05:15 |
| jacques | rev, yeah but I started typing before you said it :-) | 05:16 |
| rev | Disconnect: it does wifi??? i've used bt to interface with my phone, but this wifi thing is news to me... | 05:16 |
| rev | Disconnect: do i have to install something optional to use it? | 05:16 |
| Disconnect | heh ;) | 05:16 |
| rev | sorry, not the most convincing attempt | 05:16 |
| rev | are there any other programs to utilize the N800's webcam? | 05:17 |
| Disconnect | mplayer | 05:19 |
| Disconnect | (no gui tho) | 05:19 |
| Disconnect | anything that'll handle v4l can do it, in theory | 05:19 |
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| nelson | jacques: wasn't touching it. | 05:19 |
| rev | it'll record? mplayer? | 05:19 |
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| jacques | nelson, :-( | 05:20 |
| nelson | Are there GB SD cards known to work? Or have all of them worked? | 05:20 |
| Disconnect | rev: -dump | 05:20 |
| nelson | s/GB/4GB/ | 05:21 |
| rev | nelson: i use a 1 GB kingston w/ no probs | 05:21 |
| rev | ahhh ok | 05:21 |
| nelson | If I'm going to buy a 4GB card, I want to buy one known to work. | 05:21 |
| vol | nelson: the 8gb cards have been reported to work | 05:22 |
| jacques | I have a couple of 2GB cards in mine - I'm going to wait for SDHC support and then but 8GB cards | 05:22 |
| vol | you just need to flash a newer kernel | 05:22 |
| jacques | s/but/buy/ | 05:22 |
| nelson | vol: Oh, really?? Wow. Amazing. | 05:23 |
| vol | well i just bought 2 of the 8gb adata cards | 05:23 |
| rev | are there any problems using toolbar applets from the 770/OS2006 on the N800+ | 05:23 |
| vol | they were only 5$ more than the 4gb standard sd cards | 05:23 |
| nelson | where from? | 05:23 |
| vol | newegg | 05:24 |
| jacques | I have heard the SDHC cards are slower tho... (not suer it matters here) | 05:24 |
| vol | i should get them early next week so i'll do some testing | 05:25 |
| jacques | I would be a lot more excited about massive storage if there was a good video player | 05:27 |
| jacques | as in one that could play full frame rate fill res at about 1500kb/s | 05:28 |
| vol | mplayer wasnt able to for you? | 05:28 |
| jacques | vol, I mean 800x480@25/30fps | 05:28 |
| jacques | my hx4700 can do 640x480@25/30 / 1500kb/s | 05:29 |
| jacques | and the N800 should be much more powerful hardware | 05:29 |
| vol | ah i was able to play a xvid file, let me check the specs on it | 05:29 |
| jacques | everthing I have read so far indicates this is not yet possible on the N800 | 05:29 |
| vol | 608x256 805kbps | 05:30 |
| vol | seemed to work well | 05:30 |
| vol | but i dont have a large enough card yet to test an actual movie | 05:30 |
| vol | just a clip | 05:30 |
| jacques | vol, interesting - what codec? | 05:30 |
| jacques | also, what about the audio codec/bitrate? | 05:31 |
| vol | xvid, audio was 153kbps vbr mp3 | 05:31 |
| jacques | ok that sounds promising - I did hear mp3 audio worked much better than other codecs since mp3 is done by the DSP (and others are not) | 05:32 |
| soleblaze | the n800 would be able to r0x the b0x..or whatever..if they properly code the media player | 05:34 |
| soleblaze | there's a video accelerator thing on the graphic chip, but the media player doesn't use it | 05:34 |
| jacques | soleblaze, yep, using the VFP and video accel hardware | 05:34 |
| soleblaze | vfp? | 05:35 |
| pbrook | Hardware floating point. | 05:35 |
| soleblaze | ah | 05:36 |
| jacques | I've done a few tests (so have others) which seem to indicate bora isn't built with hard-float | 05:36 |
| soleblaze | wouldn't surprise me..it honestly doesn't seem to be coded that well.. | 05:36 |
| soleblaze | well engineered piece of hardware with a badly tuned linux kernel slapped ontop of it | 05:36 |
| jacques | I built nbench with and without vfp and get > order of magnitude improvement in FP operations with it | 05:37 |
| jacques | but the trig functions are still slow (libm) | 05:37 |
| pbrook | soleblaze: It's a userspace issue, not kernel. | 05:37 |
| soleblaze | ok just slapped programs onto it without optimising anything :P | 05:37 |
| soleblaze | symantics ;) | 05:37 |
| jacques | I hope they plan to transition to hard-float | 05:38 |
| pbrook | Arm hard and soft float both use the same ABI, so you should be able to just rebuild stuff with the right compiler flags. | 05:38 |
| soleblaze | pbrook: if it was that easy, they probably had a reason..well, you'd think at least | 05:38 |
| soleblaze | how well does mplayer run on the n800? | 05:39 |
| jacques | pbrook, yeah I did that with nbench - was considering trying glibc to get libm | 05:39 |
| pbrook | I'd guess the main issue is testing. VFP support was fairly new in the toolchain they're using, and they might not have the glibc VFP bits. | 05:39 |
| soleblaze | ah | 05:40 |
| soleblaze | the n800 seems to be the flakiest piece of equipment i've ever used that ran linux | 05:40 |
| jacques | ah :-\ gcc-4.1.1 would be nice too | 05:40 |
| pbrook | They should be ABI compatible. | 05:41 |
| jacques | hmmmmm, that's good news | 05:42 |
| jacques | I have at least one gcc 4.1.1 eabi armel toolchain | 05:42 |
| pbrook | You might need to replace libgcc. | 05:43 |
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| jacques | pbrook, this sounds worth trying :-) | 05:44 |
| jacques | maybe this weekend I can try | 05:44 |
| pbrook | Usual disclaimer about keeping both pieces if it breaks applies :-) | 05:45 |
| jacques | lol, yeah I am familiar with that concept | 05:45 |
| jacques | I am just glad to hear you say it might work | 05:46 |
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| jacques | I'll set up dual booting to SD first ;-) | 05:47 |
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| imawinar | moo | 05:52 |
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| Skyhusker|770 | Hi | 06:31 |
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| Skyhusker|n800 | i'm testing xchat in bora and almost everything works :) | 06:34 |
| Skyhusker|n800 | will release a package rsn | 06:34 |
| jacques | nice | 06:37 |
| Skyhusker|n800 | I've just need to solve an issue with the topic bar tooltip | 06:38 |
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| vol | just flashed the sdhc enabled kernel | 06:57 |
| * vol crosses fingers and hopes for no crashes | 06:57 | |
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| Markov | are there any free video calling clients available for pc? | 07:51 |
| tolgam | you can try openwengo | 07:52 |
| tolgam | or ekiga | 07:52 |
| tolgam | both works great :) | 07:52 |
| Markov | suhweet thatnks tolgam | 07:53 |
| Markov | can i connect to them via n800? | 07:53 |
| tolgam | don't think so :/ | 07:58 |
| tolgam | at least for openwengo there must be a version for n800 | 07:58 |
| Markov | yeah. hmmm | 07:58 |
| Markov | i guess i'll just have to wait for skype | 07:59 |
| tolgam | I never managed to get visio with something else than an other openwengo | 07:59 |
| tolgam | ekiga connects to classical voip clients with h323 and such protocols | 07:59 |
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| tolgam | it as more chance to works with n800 | 07:59 |
| tolgam | but dunno if it can get connected to gtalk... | 08:00 |
| Markov | sooo.. when will skype be available? | 08:00 |
| Markov | heheh | 08:00 |
| tolgam | :) | 08:00 |
| tolgam | you can try gizmo too | 08:00 |
| tolgam | it's a kind of skype clone and it works | 08:01 |
| tolgam | both on n800 and PCs | 08:01 |
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| Markov_ | does gizmo support video? | 08:03 |
| tolgam | didn't tryied yet | 08:05 |
| tolgam | i've only done voice calling between two PC | 08:06 |
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| Markov_ | can anyone recommend a upnp server? | 08:18 |
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| kulve | Markov_: I've tested ushare, and it at least worked. None of the servers I tested were good though | 08:28 |
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| kulve | (On Debian Etch in my mediabox) | 08:29 |
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| tigert | there is commandline gmediaserver that worked with mediastreamer but it was very spartan | 09:13 |
| tigert | --musicfolder=/path/to/mp3s | 09:14 |
| tigert | or something like that | 09:14 |
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| kulve | tigert: yes, I tried that too and even though it worked as well, it did required some tweaking before I got it running.. | 09:26 |
| kulve | most of the upnp stuff seems to be a bit unfinished, even though with n800 the upnp idea could work nicely | 09:27 |
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| tigert | yeah | 09:33 |
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| c0ffee | moin | 09:42 |
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| tigert | moin | 09:55 |
| imawinar | muuu | 09:56 |
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| keesj | Mögge | 10:00 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:01 |
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| maddler | morning all... | 11:06 |
| imawinar | mmooo | 11:06 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:27 |
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| maddler | heya Jaffa... | 11:52 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:26 |
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| wrap | hi everyone. | 13:12 |
| wrap | i'm a maemo devlopment newbie. I am wondering if you guys integrate an IDE with your usage of scratchbox to do maemo development ? | 13:13 |
| wrap | If so which IDE do you use and how is the integration done ? Do you need to X11 suport inside a scratchbox target to run something like KDevelop or xemacs ?? | 13:14 |
| wrap | or do you integrate scratchbox with eclipse ? | 13:15 |
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| keesj | there was an eclipse plugin. that was use in the normal environement not inside scratchbox | 13:16 |
| keesj | I don't think it is very much up to date. | 13:17 |
| keesj | the pattern i use is to programms a little as possible inside scratchbox . | 13:17 |
| wrap | ok and just move in to scratchbox to compile etc. | 13:18 |
| keesj | if possible yes, but if you do gui development you don't have much choice. | 13:19 |
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| neostrider | hello fellows | 13:37 |
| neostrider | keesj? | 13:38 |
| neostrider | are you here? | 13:38 |
| neostrider | anybody home? | 13:40 |
| keesj | yes | 13:41 |
| neostrider | hello...how are things going? | 13:42 |
| keesj | alright. I am thinking what do do next , I have a few programming ideas but I am sure sure what do do next | 13:44 |
| keesj | and I am trying different channels to get xmoto in the whild. aparently nobody is waiting for such a game :( | 13:46 |
| neostrider | xmoto is ready? | 13:46 |
| neostrider | nobody expected it! | 13:46 |
| keesj | I is good enough for me to play :p | 13:46 |
| neostrider | it is a big boy's game | 13:46 |
| neostrider | hey...where can I get it? | 13:46 |
| neostrider | (also, the source code would be welcome) | 13:47 |
| keesj | well I can't get it to compile on the 2.1 sdk , do you want to try the 3.0 build on the 770? | 13:47 |
| neostrider | Im concentrating in scirocco | 13:47 |
| neostrider | maybe I can try it for you so you can concentrate on bora | 13:47 |
| keesj | the source code is on xmoto.sf.net + the maemo specific stuff in the mud builder svn | 13:47 |
| neostrider | ok...I will check out everything | 13:48 |
| keesj | I still have my 770 so I can try it | 13:48 |
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| neostrider | what is on it? | 13:48 |
| neostrider | bora or scirocco? | 13:48 |
| keesj | on the 770 it's scirocco I think | 13:49 |
| neostrider | 2.1? | 13:49 |
| neostrider | (well...im using SDK 2.0 and my stupid little app worked on scirocco device =-P) | 13:50 |
| keesj | the sketch program? | 13:50 |
| neostrider | yeah | 13:51 |
| neostrider | crappy, but working (kind of) | 13:51 |
| neostrider | I still have some issues with the service | 13:51 |
| neostrider | but It worked when I modified the desktop file to run the binary directly | 13:52 |
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| X-Fade | tigert: Wow, sweet photo! | 13:53 |
| keesj | it's all a bit of black magic if you don't use hildon | 13:53 |
| neostrider | yeah...im trying to figure it out | 13:54 |
| neostrider | I guess my mistake is about the game startup | 13:54 |
| neostrider | I used bomberman as a template | 13:55 |
| neostrider | but it has a very complex startup applet | 13:55 |
| neostrider | I should have used something simpler | 13:55 |
| neostrider | maybe xmoto is the best choice...can I use its files? | 13:55 |
| neostrider | (the ones you provided my for BZK are too complex...BZK is a very twisted project =-P ) | 13:55 |
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| neostrider | kees, where are the mud-builder svn? | 14:09 |
| keesj | ttp://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.php?id=packageformat | 14:10 |
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| keesj | sorry ckeck the getting started | 14:11 |
| Setok | great, my n800 has now also apparently entered a boot loop :P | 14:11 |
| Setok | hell, who designed this >:I | 14:11 |
| [mbm] | what'd you do to it? | 14:12 |
| dwd | keesj: Is there any reason why, if I've got a few debs sorted out, I couldn't shift them into MUD to do the actual building and distribution? | 14:12 |
| Jaffa | dwd: what're the debs? | 14:13 |
| Setok | mbm: absolutely nothing. I haven't installed anything on it | 14:13 |
| Setok | last night I tried sending an email but that, of course, did not work | 14:13 |
| Jaffa | Setok: configured any RSS feeds? | 14:13 |
| Setok | so I went to bed | 14:13 |
| keesj | Yesterday I asked about xmkmf. i just can't imagine that the maemo platform was built without this. why is there no binary package for this? | 14:13 |
| dwd | Jaffa: I've done pyopenssl (my fork), pysqlite2. I could probably dump in IPL and Telomer, too. | 14:13 |
| [mbm] | Setok: you probably installed something broken but didn't notice until now after it'd powered off | 14:13 |
| Setok | jaffa: hm.. I added a BBC weather feed | 14:13 |
| neostrider | Setok, try a reflash...do you have important data on it? | 14:13 |
| Setok | mbm: I haven't installed anything on the device | 14:13 |
| Setok | neo: nope, but I also don't have a windows machine | 14:14 |
| neostrider | me neither =-p | 14:14 |
| neostrider | ubuntu rox | 14:14 |
| Setok | well there's this one at work, but I don't have admin access and I'm guessing that software might require it | 14:14 |
| Setok | neo: I only have Macs | 14:14 |
| [mbm] | reflash it, if that doesn't help go into r&d mode (atleast temporary) | 14:14 |
| Setok | I guess reflashing won't work with a Mac? | 14:14 |
| neostrider | where is also a reflasher for mac | 14:14 |
| [mbm] | there's a mac reflash app | 14:14 |
| Setok | ooh | 14:14 |
| neostrider | with cocoa interface indeed | 14:14 |
| Setok | cool | 14:14 |
| kulve | Setok: have your tried to charge the battery? | 14:15 |
| Jaffa | dwd: all those should be fine. | 14:15 |
| Setok | I really am somewhat disappointed with the quality of this .. I mean, my colleague here who got one at the same time as me got into the boot loop after one day of use | 14:15 |
| neostrider | well..the interface is a 3rd party (free) software | 14:15 |
| Setok | kulve: I've got it connected to the wall as we speak | 14:15 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: indeed, I wrote it :) | 14:15 |
| neostrider | jaffa, so I saw you blog yesterday. very cool! | 14:15 |
| kulve | Setok: if you take battery out, put it back, connect it to the wall, it should only start kernel + some daemons, not UI at all. Does it go to the boot loop even then? | 14:16 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: that ACORN stuff is already working? | 14:16 |
| keesj | dwd I don't know any reason why not. but i have created my own mud repository for testing purposes . it would be nice if we have such poccess in place | 14:16 |
| kulve | and note: don't press power button at any phase | 14:16 |
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| Jaffa | neostrider: it was on my 770, I've not tried on the N800 yet. Mouse control is a bit funny, but that's being worked on, as is an ARM-on-ARM JIT :) | 14:17 |
| [mbm] | reminds me, still waiting for a proper suspend mode :/ | 14:17 |
| Jaffa | keesj: unfortunately my initial uploads to the incoming queue on extras seem to have fallen into a black hole | 14:17 |
| Setok | kulve: hold on, I'll try | 14:18 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: thats what I was wondering. I cant pass the direct ARM code to the processor itself? like, creating a native process? | 14:18 |
| Setok | re: the RSS question ... does that mean I shouldn't install RSS feeds to keep the platform stable? :D | 14:19 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: or maybe use it for a generic CPU emulator? | 14:19 |
| kulve | Setok: rss's shouldn't do more that crash the rss reader :) | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: indeed, that's the purpose of the JIT. There've been efforts like riscose to re-implement the RISC OS API on Linux, but didn't really get anywhere useful. | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | kulve: RSS feeds shouldn't crash the RSS reader. | 14:20 |
| kulve | Jaffa: try planet.maemo.org's | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | Setok: there seems to be a bug, add the RSS feed culprit (as it is now) to the bug in Bugzilla. | 14:20 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: I know little about RISC OS. was it anywhere near POSIX? | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | kulve: I know - they *shouldn't* crash the RSS reader. If external data crashes an app, there's even the possibility of remote vulnerabilities. | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: nope, nowhere near :) | 14:21 |
| Setok | damn, this battery is tight | 14:21 |
| keesj | kuvle the desktop is monolytic. any applet can make the whole device unusable | 14:21 |
| kulve | keesj: yep | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=VDPd2vt and http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=yVm3GBA might also be interesting. | 14:22 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: I see...well I will keep my eye on the project. RiscOS had one of the greatest user interface I have ever seen | 14:22 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: any deb released? I wanna try! | 14:23 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: nope, sorry - basically it can't do anything more than you see in those two photos :-( | 14:24 |
| Setok | kulve: yes, I still have a boot loop | 14:24 |
| Setok | removed the battery, put it back in, connected to wall | 14:24 |
| Setok | nokia logo up, then blank, then up, then blank | 14:25 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: looking forward to try it...if you need beta testers...let me know! | 14:25 |
| kulve | Setok: :( | 14:25 |
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| kulve | Setok: there's one more thing to test, if like playing around. | 14:25 |
| kulve | before flashing the whole thing.. | 14:25 |
| Setok | I'll have to look around for the OSX reflasher I guess | 14:25 |
| Setok | kulve: what's that? | 14:25 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: will do :) | 14:25 |
| kulve | Setok: well, I requires the flasher.. | 14:26 |
| Jaffa | Setok: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#flasher | 14:26 |
| kulve | Setok: you may disable the "lifeguard reset" thingie.. | 14:26 |
| Jaffa | To disable the lifeguard reset you need to use the command line. | 14:26 |
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| Setok | kulve: a 770 flasher will be OK with an 800 .. ? | 14:29 |
| kulve | Setok: I think no | 14:30 |
| kulve | there have been many versions for 770 and at least the older ones won't do | 14:30 |
| nomis | there also is flasher-3.0 | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | nomis: unfortunately not for Mac OS X | 14:31 |
| Setok | kulve: so you're saying ... I shouldn't use the link you posted? :) | 14:31 |
| kulve | I didn't post any links | 14:31 |
| Setok | oh sorry, it was jaffa | 14:32 |
| nomis | ah oh. | 14:32 |
| valtsu | AFAIK the 770 flasher wont work | 14:32 |
| Setok | the windows flasher software .. does it require admin rights on the machine to install & use it? | 14:33 |
| kulve | Setok: I haven't even seen it.. | 14:34 |
| kulve | Setok: just buy a linux computer ;) | 14:34 |
| Setok | nah, I'm quite happy with OSX, after years of fiddling with a Linux laptop and never getting everything to work properly | 14:34 |
| Jaffa | valtsu: some people have told me that it did work with their N800, but I've not tried it myself. | 14:34 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: two questions: 1) it requires a RiscOS image, right? 2) in the picture, you are using that keyboard on the 770? | 14:35 |
| Setok | I would've thought a 770 flasher would flash, well, a 770 rom | 14:35 |
| Setok | which is hardly likely to be a good idea on an 800 | 14:35 |
| nomis | Setok: the flasher does not contain the Rom image. | 14:36 |
| kulve | afaik, the newer flasher works for both | 14:36 |
| Setok | nomis: OK, then it might perhaps work | 14:37 |
| Setok | kulve: probably, but the newer one doesn't have an OSX version, or so I gather | 14:37 |
| valtsu | Jaffa: someone told me that it bricks the device and he needed to flash it with new flasher | 14:38 |
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| neostrider | BRB | 14:40 |
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| Setok | OK, the flasher apparently requires admins on the machine | 14:48 |
| Setok | so basically I'm fscked | 14:48 |
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| Setok | anyone want to buy a cheap n800? | 14:48 |
| Setok | barely used. still has screen plastic | 14:48 |
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| kulve | Setok: n00b | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | Setok: it doesn't need admin.. | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | Setok: It needs to access usb. That's all. | 14:51 |
| Setok | friend over here said it need admin to be installed | 14:51 |
| Setok | (like most windows software, but oh well) | 14:52 |
| Setok | I dunno, I'm just rather pissed off with the device right now | 14:52 |
| X-Fade | lol ;) | 14:52 |
| Setok | I hate crap software or hardware packages. I mean, they're kind of shameful things for a software developer as it makes our industry seem lame (which it is ;-) | 14:53 |
| Setok | I mean, software and computers should all be about helping people to do more | 14:53 |
| X-Fade | Setok: The windows installer is just 5 clicks orso. How hard can it be ;) | 14:54 |
| kulve | Setok: you really think you could get high quality open source stuff with 399e? | 14:54 |
| mgedmin | does high quality software even exist? | 14:55 |
| kkito | kulve, offcourse, opensource is free | 14:55 |
| kulve | kkito: notice the term 'high quality'.. | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | high quality software that is all about helping people, I mean | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | before somebody mentions TeX | 14:56 |
| kkito | kulve, ??? i | 14:56 |
| kkito | the software is the same | 14:56 |
| Robot101 | X-Fade: then 12 reboots, download 7 drivers, 3 service packs... | 14:56 |
| kkito | and the opensource is software no hw | 14:56 |
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| kkito | and yes, linux runs smooth in the n800, better than other embeddes OS | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | And trolling on a channel that is all about creating software for the maemo platform is not productive :) This is not Nokia support. | 14:57 |
| kkito | don't compare windows mobile or symbian with a linux 1.6 | 14:57 |
| Setok | kulve: actually, yes | 14:57 |
| Setok | kulve: I didn't pay 400 euros for it | 14:57 |
| Setok | (There's no way I would've paid that much) | 14:58 |
| zuh | kulve: you actually buy the hw and the non-free sw with that 399e... The open source stuff you can get from the 'net without a device. | 14:58 |
| Setok | mgedmin: excellent software is rare, but there is software which mostly works | 14:58 |
| zuh | So *that* sw should be of good quality, since you _paid_ for it ;) | 14:58 |
| Setok | I mean, I've had and have several devices which have worked OK | 14:58 |
| zuh | The open source stuff, who cares, it can be fixed :P | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | true, there exists software you can fall in love with | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | vi, mutt, icewm | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | and there is software that's just irritating | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | evolution, openoffice.org | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | the software on the 770 falls somewhere in between | 14:59 |
| Setok | x-fade: I don't know why you take it personal? I believe the software developers are the one thing that might make the device worthwhile | 14:59 |
| Setok | my blame is placed very firmly on Nokia | 14:59 |
| Setok | that's only trolling if you take it personally | 15:00 |
| Setok | which it was never meant to be | 15:00 |
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| kkito | anyways, if you cannot view the power of the linux and n800 you are blind. There are another device with the same hw capabilities that you can listen music, and browse the web with a 800x480 resolution and chat at the same time, with no loss performance? | 15:00 |
| kulve | Setok: guess how many nokia developers are here that has tried to do their best with the given timetables.. | 15:00 |
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| Setok | kkito: believe me, I fully appreciate the philosophy of having Linux on it. That's one reason why I was interested and why I am so frustrated Nokia hasn't done their job properly | 15:01 |
| Setok | as the potential is extremely good | 15:01 |
| Setok | kulve: most likely quite a few and it's probably not their fault but their managers and managers' managers | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Setok: You are still missing the point. The windows flasher has nothing to do with maemo. And thus not this channel. | 15:03 |
| Setok | I don't see why there should be a need to be apologetic. I firmly believe Nokia has released an unfinished product and that they could do better | 15:03 |
| kulve | there will be updates. | 15:04 |
| Setok | x-fade: I'm not sure what you're getting at? | 15:04 |
| kulve | wait a year and try again | 15:04 |
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| X-Fade | Setok: you are clearly at the wrong place. Please talk about maemo, developing applications etc. here. | 15:05 |
| Setok | x-fade: I came here mainly because this was where I was discussing the platform yesterday and for tips on how it might be possible to get it going again | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | Setok: If you don't like a feature _on_ the N800. Let's discuss that. And try to fix it. | 15:06 |
| kulve | Setok: I'm sure you can find a linux computer to use for flashing | 15:07 |
| Setok | kulve: at some point, probably yes. not right now, though. I'm not sure if the linux machine has arrived at our office yet | 15:08 |
| Setok | it'd be nice to know what caused it to act in this manner | 15:09 |
| Setok | our guess at the moment is the mail software seeing as my friend started using it on the first day and it ended in a boot loop the next day | 15:09 |
| Setok | I started (trying) to use it yesterday but couldn't get smtp to work, for some reason, and left it at that | 15:10 |
| kulve | Setok: there are ways to try to dig the info, if you like playing around with linux which you obviously dislike | 15:10 |
| Setok | and now I have the boot loop | 15:10 |
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| Setok | so there may eb some link | 15:10 |
| kulve | and I have to admit that I have heard so many bad things about the built-in emailer that I won't touch it.. | 15:10 |
| Setok | kulve: an exaggeration. I mean, I was thinking that it'd be nice to install an ssh daemon at some point, if possible ;-) | 15:10 |
| kulve | Setok: I installed dropbear yesterday, no hickups | 15:11 |
| kulve | and xterm, etch | 15:11 |
| kulve | etch | 15:11 |
| kulve | äh | 15:11 |
| Setok | hey, come on, you and me spent quite a few nights debugging linux installations :) | 15:11 |
| kulve | etc | 15:11 |
| kulve | Setok: and I still do :) | 15:11 |
| Setok | heh, yeah | 15:11 |
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| kulve | Setok: so, if you do find a linux comp, disable the life guard reset. If it boots up, you can try to install syslog + ssh | 15:12 |
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| vol | Setok: if you upgraded busybox that would have put you in that reboot loop | 15:14 |
| Setok | how does the life guard reset work anyway? | 15:14 |
| Setok | does it just check to see if the machine doesn't boot in the specified time? | 15:14 |
| Setok | vol: I haven't done anything with it, seriously | 15:15 |
| Setok | I mean, I got IMAP to work, albeit very slow, and tried to get smtp going, but it didn't work | 15:15 |
| Setok | and hm... added a couple of bookmarks and the BBC RSS weather feed | 15:15 |
| vol | ah, thats what happened to me. thought maybe we were in the same boat | 15:15 |
| Setok | that's it | 15:16 |
| Setok | so I haven't installed any software on it or anything | 15:16 |
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| kulve | Setok: the lifeguard checks if some daemon, that cannot be restarted, dies. Then it reboots the thing. Bad things happens, when this kind of daemon dies in the startup always.. | 15:19 |
| Setok | right | 15:19 |
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| kulve | that ofc shouldn't happen.. | 15:20 |
| Setok | is it possible that the daemon simply hasn't started by the time lifeguard checks it? | 15:20 |
| kulve | no | 15:20 |
| kulve | they are all started by the life guard | 15:20 |
| kulve | messed up jffs can cause boots too, but that's more unlikely.. | 15:22 |
| Setok | jffs = ? | 15:23 |
| kulve | the flash file system | 15:23 |
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| kulve | journalling flash file system 2 (or something like that) | 15:24 |
| kulve | Setok: if you need mails, use ssh+pine :) | 15:25 |
| kulve | and I do agree again, that some graphical good behaving client would beat pine with that input method | 15:26 |
| Setok | OK, at least Nokia's own update software requires admins to install | 15:28 |
| Setok | so it looks like that for now there's nothing I can really do | 15:29 |
| kulve | I'm not sure if you can do anything but reflash the whole with that windows tool | 15:29 |
| kulve | using the flasher-3.0 command line tool, you can tweak kernel args etc | 15:30 |
| kulve | never done that though.. | 15:30 |
| Setok | yeah, probably. now I was just trying to get it back in some kind of order | 15:31 |
| Setok | I don't have any kind of access to any Linux machines atm so flasher-3.0 is out, for the moment | 15:31 |
| Setok | unless it can be trivially compiled for OSX | 15:31 |
| kulve | Setok: unfortunately it's one of those many closed source things.. :/ | 15:32 |
| kulve | (afaik) | 15:32 |
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| mgedmin | the lag between supported oses is certainly annoying | 15:32 |
| mgedmin | but for once linux is not the lagging one | 15:33 |
| Setok | kulve: ah. damn | 15:33 |
| Jaffa | flasher-2.0 certainly might be able to disable the lifeguard reset | 15:34 |
| Setok | are there technical reasons why the tab wouldn't have a hard reset on the device itself? | 15:41 |
| Setok | that tends to be the norm with many devices | 15:41 |
| kulve | what would the "hardreset" do? | 15:42 |
| kulve | the device should have 2x256M flashes, one for use, and one for hardresetting everything? | 15:42 |
| Setok | I was just thinking what it might do on other devices | 15:43 |
| Setok | I mean, basically empty configurations and all files | 15:43 |
| melmoth | Aaaargh, my 2G cartridge i receieved last week just died :(( | 15:43 |
| kulve | with smaller flashe sizes, it would be nice to have that "backup" flash. But the flasher is cheaper | 15:43 |
| Setok | I doubt other devices use a backup flash, or maybe they do | 15:43 |
| kulve | Setok: not that simple, when user can install anything anywhere | 15:43 |
| Setok | more like just empty everything | 15:44 |
| Setok | kulve: I know, but you could keep a record of what is pre-installed | 15:44 |
| Setok | and then basically remove everything else | 15:44 |
| Setok | I know it's not as clear cut with a platform like that | 15:44 |
| kulve | yep. The list would be too big and too hard to maintain. You can upgrade anything, you can add anything, you change change anything.. | 15:45 |
| kulve | with any tool. | 15:45 |
| kulve | like dd | 15:45 |
| Setok | oh, well sure, if the user goes to that level then too bad | 15:45 |
| kulve | if you want to start over, you need to flash it. And that can be done with linux and windows. | 15:45 |
| Setok | but if you think of a consumer they would at the most be installing the odd 3rd party tool | 15:46 |
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| Setok | I mean, it'd probably resolve this situation | 15:46 |
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| Setok | any ideas how the email software might have broken things? | 15:46 |
| kulve | no. A far fetch would be that it filled you flash in some buggy busy loop. | 15:47 |
| kulve | bug I think that actually requires root.. | 15:47 |
| kulve | normal user can't fill it that full | 15:47 |
| kulve | but I don't have *any* experience with email on that device | 15:48 |
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| Setok | I was thinking what if it filled up the swap area and there was a bug there which allowed an overwrite or something | 15:48 |
| Setok | (pure speculation) | 15:48 |
| kulve | the swap is just a single file on the mmc | 15:50 |
| kulve | I think that can't happen | 15:50 |
| kulve | but you not the first one I hear gotten into boot loop after email, so it seems to do something really evil | 15:50 |
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| kulve | +are | 15:52 |
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| neostrider | damn | 16:18 |
| neostrider | I was about to ask kees about xmoto | 16:18 |
| neostrider | anyone knows about mud-builder here? | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, me. | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | tzz has had a play too. But I've written the framework | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: the mud mailing list may well be a better place though, as it'll give me a chance to answer when I'm less busy at work ;-( | 16:20 |
| neostrider | i dont like posting...only reading ;-) | 16:20 |
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| kender | hello | 16:21 |
| neostrider | its becouse i tried mud get xmoto | 16:21 |
| neostrider | Failed to run get on xmoto: | 16:21 |
| neostrider | mismatched tag at line 641, column 22, byte 19350 at /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/XML/Parser.pm line 187 | 16:21 |
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| Jaffa | neostrider: sounds like xmoto.xml has a bug. | 16:21 |
| keesj | neostrider: I am just back I have not read the full topic | 16:21 |
| neostrider | eita! | 16:21 |
| neostrider | actully, you did read it =-P | 16:22 |
| neostrider | we just started when you arrived | 16:22 |
| neostrider | im trying to fech it | 16:22 |
| neostrider | fetch | 16:22 |
| hub | damn, Contacts is not available for N770 | 16:22 |
| neostrider | neither minimo | 16:23 |
| keesj | I think I have pased it this morning with xmllint -format | 16:23 |
| neostrider | I would love to have minimo | 16:23 |
| neostrider | keesj: i didnt compreended what you said | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | xmoto.xml looks ok | 16:24 |
| keesj | neostrider: sorry , neither do I. I have cheked and formated the xml it this morning for xml validity using xmllint | 16:25 |
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| neostrider | well..i will update the mud then | 16:25 |
| neostrider | ahhh..ok =-) | 16:25 |
| neostrider | there is any easy way to update? | 16:25 |
| keesj | yup svn update in the mud-builder diretory | 16:25 |
| Setok | OK, good news folks | 16:26 |
| Setok | I managed to install the n800 ROM with the OSX flasher tool | 16:26 |
| Setok | (even though it says it is for the 770) | 16:26 |
| kulve | rom sounds weird :) | 16:26 |
| kulve | it's the fiasco :) | 16:26 |
| kulve | -the | 16:26 |
| Setok | in other news, my friend's n800 is in a boot loop atm again | 16:27 |
| neostrider | fiasco sound weird to me | 16:27 |
| neostrider | in brazillian portuguese fiasco means "failure" hahahah | 16:27 |
| kulve | neostrider: doesn't it sound just right :) | 16:27 |
| kulve | neostrider: exactly :) | 16:27 |
| Setok | "the email software got stuck, so I shut it, then I shut the device, now it is in a boot loop" | 16:27 |
| neostrider | brazillian too? | 16:27 |
| neostrider | portuguese? | 16:27 |
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| kender | neostrider, hehehe, same in spanish | 16:27 |
| Setok | seems like it has an email client from hell | 16:27 |
| dwd | neostrider: It's used in en_gb as well, meaning a chaotic failure. | 16:27 |
| neostrider | hahhaha | 16:27 |
| kulve | Setok: it has always been pretty terrible | 16:28 |
| neostrider | indeed, after two years, im still figuring out how to pronounce maemo heheheh | 16:28 |
| * dwd is doing his best to sort out a viable alternative. | 16:28 | |
| Setok | kulve: yes. having said that, an application like that shouldn't be able to kill the OS | 16:29 |
| Setok | so there is some bug somewhere, probably in both the app and the OS environment | 16:29 |
| Setok | just a matter of narrowing it down to something | 16:30 |
| Setok | neo: I'm calling it "mamma" | 16:30 |
| dwd | neostrider: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco | 16:30 |
| kulve | Setok: ofc it should be able to kill the env, but it's not trivial to shield it either | 16:30 |
| kulve | +not :) | 16:31 |
| maddler | ab: welcome! | 16:31 |
| maddler | :D | 16:31 |
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| dwd | Setok: If an application needs to write a substantial amount of data to flash, it can have the effect of making everything else unresponsive, which kicks in the lifeguard. | 16:31 |
| neostrider | i didnt know it was some of a universal word =-P | 16:31 |
| keesj | I am completely lost on what subjects are and are not oke on this channel. if anybody thinks I am off limits with xmoto and mud pleast tell me so | 16:31 |
| neostrider | well...im updating mud to try to build xmoto | 16:32 |
| Setok | dwd: that may be, and probably a problem. OTOH even then it shouldn't boot loop | 16:32 |
| keesj | I have revieced great help and won't be mad | 16:32 |
| * Jaffa wouldn't have thought so, but then I'm biasd. | 16:32 | |
| neostrider | still the same error | 16:32 |
| neostrider | keesj: the same error on mud | 16:32 |
| ab | maddler: thanks :-) | 16:33 |
| Setok | dwd: anyway, it seems the problem is semi-reproducible, which will help | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: you switch to the mud-builder directory, and do `svn up' and it reports "At revisiion 116". | 16:33 |
| dwd | Setok: It doesn't distinguish between the device locking up because apps are doing the right thing, and the device locking up because an app is doing something very wrong. That'd need it to detirmine intent, which is tricky programmatically. | 16:33 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: yes... it did it | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Mmm, the halting problem. | 16:34 |
| keesj | the mud file is not that long line?? 641 | 16:34 |
| dwd | Jaffa: You get extra marks for solving that. | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: then you type "mud build xmoto" and it gives you what? | 16:34 |
| kender | if I made packages with kernel modules for the n800 kernel, where can I host them? maemo extra maybe? with mud project? | 16:34 |
| maddler | ab: hehehehe... thank you... | 16:34 |
| maddler | ab: MaemoPeople is growing! :D | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Sod the marks, I'll have the fame, glory and money | 16:34 |
| neostrider | [sbox-SDK_PC: ~] > mud build xmoto | 16:34 |
| neostrider | +++ Trying to build package [xmoto] | 16:34 |
| neostrider | Failed to run build on xmoto: | 16:34 |
| neostrider | mismatched tag at line 641, column 22, byte 19350 at /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/XML/Parser.pm line 187 | 16:34 |
| dwd | Jaffa: No, your employer will. | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Ah, I am at work at the moment, true. But I'd sue 'em if they tried to claim it outside of work time. | 16:35 |
| Setok | dwd: the solution there, on an abstract level, would be to put checks in place to limit the stream of data and the rate written to the card | 16:35 |
| Setok | so that the device does not become unresponsive | 16:35 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: using which version of Maemo in your scratchbox? And is up to date? | 16:35 |
| dwd | Setok: Hmmm. You mean, slow it down in order to make it work better? | 16:35 |
| Setok | dwd: pretty much, yes :-) | 16:35 |
| Setok | well, you could do it in a smart way, based on the amount of data sent in a timeframe | 16:36 |
| dwd | Setok: Actually, preemptible async I/O might be a good plan here. | 16:36 |
| neostrider | SDK is mistral | 16:36 |
| Setok | dwd: yeah | 16:36 |
| Setok | dwd: but how would all of this explain the resulting boot loop? | 16:36 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: SDK is mistral...i dont remember what version the scratchbox is...I dont know how to update that too | 16:36 |
| Jaffa | neostrider: `fakeroot apt-get -u upgrade' doesn't report anything? | 16:36 |
| dwd | Setok: Ah. I suspect that's probably the jffs garbage collector locking things up at boot. | 16:37 |
| neostrider | E: Invalid operation upgrade doesnt | 16:37 |
| Setok | dwd: OK. Wouldn't that be easyish to fix? | 16:37 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: Im some of a newbie in linux...i came from S60 world =-P | 16:37 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: but Ive been a linux user and curious since 1998...but only a regular user for about 3 years | 16:38 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: so I dont know much ;-) | 16:38 |
| dwd | Setok: Probably not. It's a bit too low-level for me. | 16:39 |
| Setok | dwd: oh, I didn't mean you specifically | 16:39 |
| dwd | Setok: No, I mean, too low-level for me to understand how fixable it might be. | 16:39 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: sorry... i forgot to erase the rest of your sentence in the command line | 16:40 |
| Setok | on and btw folks, sorry if I caused offense in any remarks. It was not my intention and I have nothing against maemo developers or anything | 16:40 |
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| kulve | Setok: you weren't the first :) | 16:40 |
| Setok | just general frustration that Nokia couldn't move the deadline or do what it takes to make the n800 as good as it should be | 16:40 |
| neostrider | Jaffa: now it gave a lot of messages about "stat (2 No such file or directory)" | 16:40 |
| kulve | for me this is a nice toy. I didn't expect too much from it :) | 16:40 |
| keesj | I have 3 sdk's installed on 2 different machines (mistral,scirocco,and bora) building xmoto fails on mistral and scirocco for different reasons | 16:41 |
| Setok | I mean, the platform philosophy is excellent | 16:41 |
| neostrider | keesj: mistral and scirocco dont clash? | 16:41 |
| neostrider | keesj: diferent directories? | 16:41 |
| keesj | neostrider: perhaps your installation was not complete? it requires about 2gig and if it is not there you are in trouble because the installer will not detect this | 16:42 |
| Setok | but if Nokia can't really excel themselves, they may end up with competition from Apple later on and I'm not convinced that will end up well for the n800 | 16:42 |
| keesj | neostrider: on different machines | 16:42 |
| keesj | Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 288: _dl_start_final: Assertion `info->l.l_tls_modid == 0' failed! | 16:42 |
| Jaffa | keesj: what are the debian/control differences which caused you patch problems? Could it be something we could force set to maintain compatiblity? | 16:42 |
| neostrider | keesj: ive installed it manually | 16:42 |
| keesj | for this bug I need to patch my kernel :( | 16:43 |
| neostrider | keesj: I guess it is complete...i could build bomberman flawlessly | 16:43 |
| kulve | keesj: VDSO | 16:43 |
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| keesj | kulve: thanks I know it has to do with VDSO bug I have not been able to fix the problem yet (that install in under ubuntu) | 16:45 |
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| kulve | I got the same error when starting SB and setting CONFIG_COMPAT_VDSO=y in kernel fixed it.. | 16:46 |
| keesj | so I need to get a new kernel right? | 16:47 |
| kulve | I had the compile mine, yes | 16:47 |
| kulve | (I use vanilla kernel) | 16:47 |
| kulve | and have the config in /proc/config.gz | 16:47 |
| neostrider | well folks | 16:48 |
| neostrider | im leaving | 16:48 |
| neostrider | lunch | 16:48 |
| neostrider | see you later | 16:48 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: it what the Standards-Version: 3.6.1 | 16:49 |
| keesj | but I cannot reproduce it right now the other version was Standards-Version: 3.6.0 | 16:50 |
| Jaffa | kessj: ok, so once the control file's generated, just hard-code it to 3.6.0 :-) | 16:50 |
| kender | how are the mantainers / admins of the garage? | 16:53 |
| Jaffa | how or who? | 16:53 |
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| kender | who | 16:54 |
| kender | :) | 16:54 |
| kender | sorry | 16:54 |
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| kender | and, the answer is.... | 16:57 |
| keesj | kender: that is a trade sectert | 16:57 |
| keesj | it's like asking who works for nokia | 16:58 |
| kender | mm... | 16:58 |
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| ||cw | nokia's employee's names are a trade secret? | 16:58 |
| kender | ok, so, there is a project, but the only developer doesn't answer me, I have to create another one, because anybody is able to delete that empty project? | 16:59 |
| keesj | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=garage+admin | 16:59 |
| kender | or, give me access to that project.. | 17:00 |
| c0ffee | the people that write about garage downtimes are a good bet | 17:00 |
| keesj | there is also a garage email did you try that? | 17:00 |
| kender | no | 17:01 |
| kender | only the "join request" and his private email | 17:01 |
| valtsu | kender: what's your project? | 17:01 |
| kender | valtsu, maemo-fm | 17:01 |
| valtsu | kender: the developer could hang in here | 17:01 |
| kender | I want to continue developing... | 17:02 |
| valtsu | irc is much faster than email ;) | 17:02 |
| kender | yes, I know | 17:02 |
| kender | the project is emply, as if the developer, has started investigating, but then he forget about it | 17:03 |
| valtsu | sounds like me :D | 17:03 |
| kender | ? | 17:03 |
| |tbb|_ | how do i install that file on my maemo3 scratchbox? | 17:04 |
| |tbb|_ | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/771/statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb | 17:04 |
| valtsu | kender: start something and never finish it | 17:04 |
| kender | valtsu, ah, hehehe, yes, I have done that too | 17:04 |
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| mgedmin | |tbb|_: fakeroot dpkg -i filename.deb | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | or use apt-get | 17:05 |
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| |tbb|_ | mgedmin first doesnt worked for me before and apt-get will only work if i got the repository isnt it so? | 17:11 |
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| mgedmin | yes | 17:11 |
| |tbb|_ | so i dont have the repository | 17:11 |
| jonek | hi, got my N800 via developer discount - big THX to Nokia ;-) | 17:12 |
| jonek | anybody free for a video chat test? | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | kender: garage@maemo.org - or grab ferenc when he's here. What's the project, OOI? | 17:12 |
| kender | Jaffa, maemo-fm | 17:13 |
| keesj | jonek: we can try , but I have never tried it either | 17:13 |
| kender | Jaffa, thanks for the info, I'll mail him later on | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | kender: if might be worth suggesting instead of taking ownership of the project, that they might consider a tidy up of projects which have been registered but don't use any garage facilities. They'd sent out an email, and give people - say - a month to respond or the project is deleted. Then you can open yours with the same name (or a different one straight away) | 17:15 |
| keesj | this is what I look like http://carlit.mine.nu/outdoor/2003/zomer2003_water_en_rots_en_familie/600/DCP_0823.JPG.jpg | 17:16 |
| keesj | still wanna chat? | 17:17 |
| kender | keesj, the donkey? | 17:17 |
| keesj | yes , that's me | 17:17 |
| kender | hehe | 17:17 |
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| keesj | but my hair is different now | 17:17 |
| kender | Jaffa, ok, I'll do it | 17:17 |
| |tbb|_ | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > dpkg -i /tmp/statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb | 17:18 |
| |tbb|_ | dpkg-deb: `/tmp/statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb' is not a debian format archive | 17:18 |
| kender | keesj, do you have time, and the n800 on your hands now? | 17:18 |
| nomis | |tbb|_: huh? | 17:18 |
| nomis | |tbb|_: any idea whats wrong with it? I think that is the very .deb file I installed in my scratchbox. | 17:19 |
| dwd | |tbb|_: What does "file" say? | 17:19 |
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| nomis | (and since people managed to install it on their N800s it cannot be that far off... | 17:20 |
| keesj | kender: it is connected | 17:21 |
| Andy80 | hi | 17:21 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm nokia really needs to open it's internal bugzilla. Or at least make some kind of proxy for it.. | 17:27 |
| X-Fade | They keep slapping #NB nummers around our ears, but we can't check them :( | 17:27 |
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| Setok | well folks, thanks for the assistance | 17:32 |
| Setok | I'm heading off to the real office where magic takes place | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | I bet that statusbarclock .deb file is actually a html file | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | stupid sourceforge-lookalike download systems | 17:32 |
| Setok | might even try looking at getting some coding done for the n800 to see how it works | 17:32 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: where now? | 17:32 |
| Setok | cyas | 17:32 |
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| maddler | keesj: are you inside or outside the car? | 17:33 |
| |tbb|_ | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > file /tmp/statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb | 17:34 |
| |tbb|_ | /tmp/statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb: gzip compressed data, from Unix, max compression | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: In a bugreport I issued. | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Weird thing is, that you can only see it in the notification mail. | 17:34 |
| keesj | maddlet outside those things can kill you | 17:34 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: odd | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | odd | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | deb files are not gzipped data | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | they're supposed to be ar archives with two .tar.gz inside | 17:41 |
| dwd | |tbb|: You could try ungzipping it, and see what file says about it then. | 17:45 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ah, no it is in the alias field of bug 1008. | 17:47 |
| Andy80 | every time I reboot my pc I've to execute: /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start to make scratchbox work again. Is there a way to execute it automatically? Do I have to add it to /etc/profile of my machine? | 17:47 |
| * mgedmin downloads the deb | 17:47 | |
| mgedmin | $ file statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb: Debian binary package (format 2.0) | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | looks right | 17:47 |
| nomis | |tbb|: when I download the URL mentioned above with wget the resulting file is a "statusbarclock_0.6_armel.deb: Debian binary package (format 2.0)" according to file. | 17:48 |
| maddler | Jaffa: nokia just refunded 26eur because of the delay in the delivery :D | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | Andy80: no, better create a symlink in /etc/rc?.d/ | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | Andy80: what linux distro do you use? | 17:48 |
| Andy80 | mgedmin: ubuntu edgy | 17:49 |
| mgedmin | Andy80: if you'd've installed scratchbox with apt-get like I did, you wouldn't need to worry about init scripts | 17:49 |
| Andy80 | mgedmin: no I used manual installation because "someone" wrote on his blog that apt way didn't work for him on edgy (6.10) | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | worked for me | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | anyway, create a symlink /etc/rc2.d/S20scratchbox -> /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl | 17:51 |
| Andy80 | tnx :) | 17:51 |
| Jaffa | maddler: cool :) | 17:54 |
| garrett | hey everyone | 17:54 |
| * Andy80 wish I could upgrade my Nokia 6600 with apt-get too :D | 17:56 | |
| maddler | Jaffa: yep... | 17:58 |
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| Andy80 | a simple question: applications for maemo are GTK(C) or GTK+(C++) applications? Are both languages available? | 18:43 |
| kulve | I think there's not such thing as GTK, it's GTK+ | 18:44 |
| kulve | for C++ there's gtkmm, i.e. c++ bindings fro gtk+ | 18:44 |
| Tak | that's correct | 18:45 |
| kulve | GTK+ is the "official" API, but there are pretty nice bindings for c++ and something for python | 18:45 |
| Tak | also, you can use gtk+ from c++, you just have to deal with gtk objects being gobjects instead of shiny c++ classes | 18:46 |
| Andy80 | ah ok, thanks! | 18:47 |
| Andy80 | and... another thing: what is the path of .h files inside the /scratchbox folder? | 18:48 |
| Andy80 | I'm trying to build a db for code completion in kdevelop | 18:48 |
| Andy80 | and I need to specify the folder where .h files are located | 18:48 |
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| kulve | Andy80: not exactly sure what you mean. If you install a -dev -package (headers) they go usually to /usr/include inside the target. From outside it's /scratcbhox/users/<name>/targets/<targetname>/usr/include | 18:50 |
| Tak | Andy80: for gtk+, or for standard headers? | 18:50 |
| Andy80 | Tak: both.... mainly gtk/hildon | 18:51 |
| Tak | you're using kdevelop outside the scratchbox, correct? | 18:51 |
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| Tak | then it would be /usr/include for standard headers, the paths listed in `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0` for gtk+ | 18:55 |
| Andy80 | Tak: I use kdevelop outside, to develop files that are inside the scratchbox... | 18:58 |
| Tak | ouch | 18:59 |
| Tak | so then you'll want to prepend /scratchbox/users/whateveryourusernameis/targets/SDK_WHATEVER/ to the above paths | 18:59 |
| Andy80 | ok, thanks :) | 19:00 |
| Andy80 | off course I don't pretend to compile from inside the kdevelop (it would be too much integration ;) ) I just want to code with kdevelop and then build inside the box | 19:01 |
| kulve | that's how I do it with emacs | 19:03 |
| Tak | I mainly code and build outside the box, then test inside, and for things that can't really be done outside, use vim inside | 19:04 |
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| |tbb| | do i have to setup anything while using wget with https sites? | 19:18 |
| Jaffa | shouldn't do | 19:20 |
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| maddler | tbb... sometimes --no-check-certificate | 19:21 |
| |tbb| | that was the problem | 19:22 |
| maddler | :) | 19:22 |
| |tbb| | anyone knows how to change the statusbarclock to show it analog | 19:23 |
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| |tbb| | wget on maemo3 doesnt show me this option with -h | 19:24 |
| elpaso | hello | 19:24 |
| maddler | |tbb|: it's controlled by main clock status | 19:24 |
| maddler | heya elpaso... | 19:25 |
| |tbb| | ah k, thx maddler | 19:25 |
| maddler | time to leave here... | 19:25 |
| maddler | later dudes! | 19:25 |
| elpaso | I nmapped the 800, port 6000/tcp is open, does anybody know why? | 19:25 |
| [mbm] | elpaso: X11 | 19:25 |
| elpaso | is this normal? | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | hm | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | it probably is, but I think it should not be | 19:27 |
| elpaso | i have sshd running... | 19:27 |
| elpaso | this could be the reason | 19:27 |
| pbrook | The prot may be open, but it's not accepting X connections. | 19:27 |
| pbrook | ... or mine isn't anyway :-) | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | X has access controls | 19:28 |
| pbrook | Right. | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | but still, why is it even listening on TCP? | 19:28 |
| [mbm] | so you can have fun sending remote x11 apps to it | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | the only open port on my 770 is ssh | 19:29 |
| |tbb| | mgedmin: do u know where i can get the source of the bora rssfeedreaderapplet | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | [mbm]: that's what ssh X forwarding is for | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | tbb, no | 19:29 |
| [mbm] | mgedmin: if it was a real system yes, but ssh adds overhead | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | point | 19:30 |
| [mbm] | the n800 doesn't seem to cope too well with running x11 over ssh | 19:30 |
| [mbm] | I tried | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | still, one of the arguments in the thread about iptables on the 770 was that it has no open ports by default | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | I'm surprised the n800 has one | 19:30 |
| [mbm] | works good enough for running xhost, at which point you switch to direct | 19:30 |
| elpaso | is there a wget binary for the 800? | 19:32 |
| elpaso | or a more complete busybox, maybe | 19:33 |
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| mgedmin | there was a wget for the 770 | 19:35 |
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| mgedmin | it should work | 19:35 |
| pbrook | elpaso: My n800 has wget | 19:35 |
| elpaso | pbrook: ?? out of the box? | 19:35 |
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| elpaso | -sh: wget: not found | 19:36 |
| elpaso | perhaps it's not in my path? | 19:36 |
| pbrook | elpaso: Oh, sorry, ignore me. | 19:37 |
| pbrook | Wrong terminal tab :-) | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | heh | 19:39 |
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| elpaso | got wget from it2006, woks fine | 19:44 |
| jeepers | hi folks | 19:45 |
| jeepers | anyone on here using the vmware maemo image? | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | I'm using *a* VMware Maemo image, but not konfoo's (yet) | 19:48 |
| jeepers | did you get it from the vmware site? | 19:49 |
| jeepers | i'm guessing you built your own | 19:49 |
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| Jaffa | jeepers: indeed. I've got konfoo's version at home on my Mac, but not tried it yet | 19:53 |
| jeepers | ah, well... one problem i'm running into with that version is - apparently - the python version on it is not 2.5 and does not have the proper gtk bindings or gtk is messed up in some way... | 19:54 |
| jeepers | i also get gtk definition errors when trying to compile C code. | 19:55 |
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| jeepers | i guess what i'll do is go through the manual steps of setting up an environment within the image and see if that fixes anything | 19:56 |
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| |tbb| | how can i find / | grep anything under maemo3 scratchbox | 20:10 |
| keesj | grep -r asf / | 20:11 |
| |tbb| | permission denied | 20:12 |
| keesj | perhaps something like this will also work find / -type f -print -exec grep sfasd \{\} \; | 20:12 |
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| |tbb| | also with fakeroot before | 20:12 |
| keesj | try adding fakeroot grep -r / | 20:12 |
| keesj | and if you just try the /usr ? | 20:12 |
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| |tbb| | if i would like to search under usr i have aksed for that, but i want to search the whole system ;), well pherhaps i can do it from outside the scratchbox | 20:15 |
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| mgedmin | permission denied where? | 20:21 |
| |tbb| | inside scratchbox using find / | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | I can imagine being denied to search in /proc | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | maybe bits of /sys | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | but the rest of scratchbox should be accessible | 20:22 |
| |tbb| | yes the errors came up in /proc and it goes me on my nerfes | 20:24 |
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| mgedmin | find / -xdev ... | 20:26 |
| |tbb| | what exaxtly will dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot do? | 20:27 |
| jpetersen | are there mono packages for bora? | 20:27 |
| |tbb| | mgedmin thx | 20:27 |
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| tolgam | |tbb|: build a package... | 20:28 |
| |tbb| | and where does it goes? | 20:29 |
| tolgam | in the current path | 20:29 |
| |tbb| | so it might be havent work for me :/ | 20:30 |
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| tolgam | what does dpkg-buildpackage says ? | 20:30 |
| tolgam | if it fails, it should tell you why | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | actually the deb produced by dpkg-buildpackage ends up in ../ | 20:31 |
| |tbb| | oh ../bla.deb it was | 20:31 |
| tolgam | hum.. yes, you're right mgedmin. It's because dpkg-buildpackage is called from the source directory | 20:32 |
| tolgam | forgot that :p | 20:32 |
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| |tbb| | hmmh i try to start osso-worldclock i became | 20:38 |
| |tbb| | internal error clock closed | 20:38 |
| |tbb| | osso_worldclock[17436]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - ui_load_images: assertion `map_pixbuf' failed | 20:38 |
| |tbb| | do i need to install anything before? | 20:40 |
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| tolgam | don't think so | 20:41 |
| tolgam | or maybe the lib for pixbuf | 20:42 |
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| Texrat | Hey gang | 20:44 |
| |tbb| | maemo_af_desktop[20635]: We could not read lowmem page stats. | 20:47 |
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| tolgam | ? | 20:52 |
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| |tbb| | i became that after installing everything what apt-cache search pixbuf matched the criteria | 20:54 |
| tolgam | dunno how to help you with that... | 20:57 |
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| * tolgam goes cooking... | 20:59 | |
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| |tbb| | hmmh, ive downloaded the source of statusbarclock applet, then ive changed the color of the 2 digits png files and recompiled them after building successfully a new deb file and installing them the digits still have the same color ;( any idea what ive made wrong | 21:11 |
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| nomis | |tbb|: you need to regenerate the .h file generated from the PNG. | 21:17 |
| pbrook | have you restarted? | 21:18 |
| nomis | |tbb|: but I am right now unsure, does the code in SVN already contain the gdk_pixbuf_fill_color() utility function in statusbarclock.c ? | 21:18 |
| |tbb| | pbrook: yes, nomis cant check it now, will try it later | 21:19 |
| nomis | |tbb|: if it is in the code then this is a way to easily change the color. | 21:20 |
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| * keesj just had his first n800 video call. the video quatlity was oke(good enough for online sex) | 21:23 | |
| zuh | ... | 21:26 |
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| mgedmin | TMI | 21:29 |
| * Tak makes a note to video call keesj at the first opportunity | 21:31 | |
| keesj | A nice thing we developers could make is a wall of n800 pictures , a website with just one page fille with pics taken with the n800 | 21:32 |
| ajturner | keesj - or pics of the N800 in various places? ;) | 21:33 |
| ajturner | keesj - they should/could be geotagged too (therefore mappable) | 21:33 |
| Tak | has anybody released a photo app yet? | 21:35 |
| garrett | http://flickr.com/search/?q=n800&z=t&s=int | 21:36 |
| garrett | http://flickr.com/map/?&q=n800&order_by=interestingness&fLat=3.230115&fLon=0&zl=16 | 21:36 |
| garrett | two pages that show N800 pics from different people, both different UIs (thumbnails and on a map) | 21:37 |
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| keesj | garrett: I have such brilliant ideas at least a few times a week :( . I was more thinking of something like this http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/ | 21:40 |
| garrett | ah | 21:40 |
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| nelson | We need a robot which answers a video call, and posts a snap. | 21:49 |
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| garrett | heh | 21:50 |
| Tak | a foulmouthed, alcoholic robot! | 21:50 |
| garrett | that would be neat | 21:50 |
| keesj | yup | 21:53 |
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| jeepersC | does anyone know what is wrong with the repository.maemo.org repository? | 22:21 |
| ||cw | it had some bad shrimp | 22:22 |
| jeepersC | actually, i can't hit any maemo related repositories from within scratchbox... | 22:22 |
| * ||cw hides | 22:22 | |
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| jeepersC | yeah, | |cw... you better hide... | 22:23 |
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| jeepersC | bad shrimp.... | 22:23 |
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| maddler | ayo' | 22:29 |
| tigert | jeepers: can you ping anything from within? | 22:30 |
| tigert | jeepers: remember it's a chroot | 22:30 |
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| tigert | so, inside scratchbox, /etc/resolv.conf is one thing to check.. | 22:30 |
| jeepers | roger... let me check... | 22:31 |
| tigert | try just pinging or wgetting anything from within | 22:31 |
| jeepers | ping command not available... trying elsewise... | 22:32 |
| maddler | jeepers: check /etc/resolv.con | 22:33 |
| maddler | in your target | 22:33 |
| jeepers | yeah... i did and that's probably it.. it only has localhost... i didn't think of that (obviously) | 22:33 |
| Tak | I wonder why the installer script doesn't hit resolv.conf | 22:34 |
| Tak | has anybody made a bug report/feature request for that? | 22:34 |
| maddler | dunno | 22:35 |
| maddler | but I was fighting with it too | 22:36 |
| maddler | not sure wether it is a bug or a configuration issue | 22:37 |
| Tak | IMO it should copy the host's resolv.conf into the scratchbox | 22:37 |
| jeepers | resolv.conf changed but still no joy on a wget | 22:37 |
| Tak | the case where you want the internal dns settings to be different than the external ones is rare at best | 22:38 |
| jeepers | an ifconfig shows me on the right ip | 22:38 |
| jpetersen | check /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf | 22:38 |
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| jeepers | it's the same as my external file | 22:41 |
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| jpetersen | jeepers: that could be a problem, if the hosts line contains modules which don't exist in the scratchbox (problem with ubuntu feisty) | 22:44 |
| jeepers | mmm... maybe... there isn't much there however | 22:45 |
| jeepers | and i'm running the maemo image from vmware | 22:45 |
| jpetersen | ok than it will be another problem | 22:45 |
| jeepers | i'm eliminating other environment issues currently... removing myself from a restrictive network | 22:46 |
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| jeepers | going away for a sec... | 22:52 |
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| c0ffee | who comes up with those strange names | 22:54 |
| c0ffee | gregale | 22:54 |
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| maddler | someone windy! | 22:59 |
| maddler | eheheh | 22:59 |
| maddler | grecale is southe-east wind | 23:00 |
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| [mbm] | garrett: get an n800 yet? | 23:10 |
| garrett | yup! | 23:11 |
| garrett | it's great | 23:11 |
| garrett | little bugs and UI issues all over | 23:11 |
| garrett | but | 23:11 |
| [mbm] | I've had mine a few weeks now, tons of fun | 23:11 |
| garrett | I like it a lot | 23:11 |
| garrett | and it shows lots of promise | 23:11 |
| garrett | cool | 23:11 |
| garrett | I bet you've been doing all sorts of stuff with it (; | 23:12 |
| [mbm] | my biggest complaint is that I have to turn the damn thing off or it drains the battery | 23:12 |
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| garrett | I need to get an AC adapter specifically for work | 23:12 |
| hap | [mbm]: same here | 23:12 |
| garrett | I bring mine back and forth currently | 23:13 |
| garrett | strangely enough, one of my uses of the device that I didn't forsee is as an Internet radio | 23:13 |
| [mbm] | garrett: speaking of fun stuff - http://mbm.openwrt.org/n800-rotated.jpg | 23:13 |
| * garrett looks | 23:13 | |
| garrett | YAY | 23:13 |
| garrett | nice! | 23:13 |
| garrett | how well does that work? | 23:13 |
| garrett | I would LOVE that, as I'm a lefty | 23:13 |
| [mbm] | it doesn't | 23:14 |
| garrett | oh | 23:14 |
| garrett | ): | 23:14 |
| [mbm] | that was just done by running xrandr | 23:14 |
| garrett | I see | 23:14 |
| [mbm] | and the touchscreen seems to have been screwed up in the rotate | 23:14 |
| garrett | oh ): | 23:14 |
| [mbm] | plus the x server is horribly confused and redraws the wrong part of the screen | 23:14 |
| garrett | yeah, the touchscreen would have to be rotated, the buttons would have to be remapped, the stereo speakers would have to be swapped | 23:15 |
| garrett | the camera would have to be flipped | 23:15 |
| garrett | the scrollbars would have to be put on the other side (for proper lefty support too) | 23:15 |
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| [mbm] | yeah, camera didn't actually flip | 23:16 |
| garrett | it would be questionable to swap the placement of the sidebar -- I find it works pretty well as is | 23:16 |
| [mbm] | but then the xv didn't either so it cancled out in the picture | 23:16 |
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| garrett | oh, then there's the issue of the stand (; | 23:16 |
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| [mbm] | stand makes a nice hand grip | 23:16 |
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| garrett | yes, true | 23:16 |
| maddler | [mbm]: are you in the oopenwrt stuff? | 23:16 |
| garrett | speaking of hand grip, I've been using mine on the subway as an ebook reader | 23:16 |
| maddler | :))) | 23:17 |
| [mbm] | maddler: yeah, I started the project | 23:17 |
| garrett | fbreader is nice | 23:17 |
| maddler | woah! | 23:17 |
| maddler | I love you!!! | 23:17 |
| garrett | I found that Doom on the N800 is totally unusable for a lefty, fwiw | 23:17 |
| garrett | *g* | 23:17 |
| [mbm] | waiting for my sd cards to show up and then I'll mess around booting openwrt on an sd card | 23:17 |
| maddler | ahahhh | 23:17 |
| garrett | cool | 23:17 |
| [mbm] | ordered two 4G cards off amazon with priority shipping | 23:18 |
| garrett | nice | 23:18 |
| garrett | which ones? | 23:18 |
| [mbm] | which apparently means "wait two days before shipping" | 23:18 |
| [mbm] | the transcend ones | 23:18 |
| [mbm] | think it was $55 when I bought them | 23:18 |
| garrett | [mbm]: heh, I won't even tell you what overnight means to letstalk.com, the people who handle the nokia web store (evidently) | 23:18 |
| maddler | I'm waiting too... | 23:18 |
| [mbm] | they also had unbranded ones for $40 | 23:18 |
| maddler | good price... | 23:19 |
| maddler | trannscend are good | 23:19 |
| [mbm] | maddler: I would have bought those but the comment said that they misspelled 'secure digital' on the card | 23:19 |
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| garrett | haha | 23:19 |
| [mbm] | so I bought the transcend ones | 23:19 |
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| maddler | I bet... | 23:20 |
| maddler | openwrt is G_R_E_A_T!!! | 23:20 |
| [mbm] | ordered them wed evening, got an email this afternoon telling me the shipping numbers (unshipped as of yet) | 23:20 |
| [mbm] | so much for 2 day delivery | 23:20 |
| [mbm] | guessing the screen protector I ordered shows up first | 23:21 |
| maddler | which one? | 23:21 |
| [mbm] | anotehr generic brand | 23:21 |
| [mbm] | not even sure it'll work | 23:21 |
| maddler | I'm going to buy Duratec on ebay | 23:22 |
| [mbm] | but the film that came on the n800 is getting so scratched up that I thought I'd swap | 23:22 |
| maddler | I found them good | 23:22 |
| maddler | indeed | 23:22 |
| maddler | mine is still usable... | 23:22 |
| tigert | its funny people worry about screen protectors | 23:23 |
| maddler | why? | 23:23 |
| tigert | I have my 770 in pretty good condition still after almost a year | 23:23 |
| tigert | the screen is meant to be poked at | 23:23 |
| [mbm] | tigert: yeah, thought about that since the n800 seems to have a pretty good screen | 23:23 |
| keesj | can you still use the stylis with screen protector ? | 23:23 |
| [mbm] | tigert: but I figured I'd rather have an unscratched protector than a scratched screen | 23:24 |
| [mbm] | if I was going to take chances | 23:24 |
| tigert | [mbm]: yeah, but in practice I have noticed it is pretty tough | 23:24 |
| tigert | of course I see your point | 23:24 |
| tigert | you paid for this | 23:24 |
| tigert | but I abuse mine a lot more | 23:24 |
| tigert | since I didnt | 23:24 |
| tigert | and its pretty fine still | 23:24 |
| [mbm] | maddler: http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Digital-Camera-Screen-Protectors/dp/B000FVXY2U/ | 23:25 |
| tigert | what I mean is: its not that easy to ruin it | 23:25 |
| [mbm] | might be too thick for the stylus | 23:25 |
| [mbm] | not sure yet | 23:25 |
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| [mbm] | price was right | 23:25 |
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| [mbm] | ordered those normal shipping, bet they show up before my priority sd shipment (which was on the same amazon order) | 23:26 |
| garrett | [mbm]: I've heard some of the psp screen protectors are the right size and work well | 23:27 |
| maddler | tigert, my 770 is still good without any screen protection but I feel like 800 is more vulnerable | 23:27 |
| garrett | and can be picked up in game stores, like ebgames, gamestop, etc. | 23:27 |
| tigert | maddler: I think the screen material is more or less the same? | 23:27 |
| tigert | the screen itself is different, better quality and stronger backlight in the N800 | 23:27 |
| garrett | [mbm]: that one is a good price though (; | 23:28 |
| garrett | and should hopefully work fine | 23:28 |
| [mbm] | garrett: should have thought of it when I was at frys looking for sd cards | 23:29 |
| [mbm] | (which btw they have a lousy selection of) | 23:29 |
| maddler | tiger, no it's more resistant | 23:29 |
| tzz | mbm: I use dd-wrt currently, didn't know about openwrt when I flashed last month. I've been thinking about switching. The openwrt wiki doesn't really compare the two, is there a comparison somewhere? I couldn't find it through google. | 23:30 |
| keesj | tigert: I am not the kind to have screen protector, or be carefull with my car :p | 23:30 |
| tzz | (sorry, I know this is off-topic) | 23:30 |
| [mbm] | tzz: openwrt really aims at being a linux distro, not a web interface | 23:30 |
| keesj | I am very disapointed that my 770 is rendered unusable because some areas of the screen are not repsonding to input any more. | 23:31 |
| tzz | mbm: OK, but feature-wise how do the two compare? Can you do task X with openwrt foreach task in dd-wrt. That's kind of hard to find out, that's why I asked. | 23:32 |
| [mbm] | tzz: if you don't mind commandline there's really no limit to what you can do with openwrt | 23:33 |
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| tigert | keesj: oh, broken touchscreen? | 23:33 |
| tigert | that sucks | 23:33 |
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| [mbm] | openwrt sucks for web interface stuff | 23:33 |
| tigert | speaking of offtopic | 23:33 |
| maddler | tigert: the "default" screen cover is not very scratch resistant... | 23:33 |
| tigert | my wrt54G doesnt boot | 23:33 |
| tigert | is there any way except the internal serial port to flash it? | 23:33 |
| tzz | mbm: got it, thanks. I don't mind the command line, been using it for a while. | 23:34 |
| maddler | [mbm]: yep... openwrt is fantastic... | 23:34 |
| tigert | resetting doesnt seem to help | 23:34 |
| maddler | tigert: not even tftp? | 23:34 |
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| nomis | is dropbear available for the N800? | 23:34 |
| nomis | where? | 23:34 |
| tigert | maddler: I dont know | 23:34 |
| tigert | nomis: I use openssh | 23:34 |
| maddler | nomis: http://www.komputika.net/maemo/ | 23:34 |
| [mbm] | tigert: set your computer to a 192.168.1.x address and start pinging 192.168.1.1 as the router boots, if it pings you can fix it just with tftp | 23:34 |
| gpd | <offtopic> are 10,000rpm drives worth the cash? | 23:34 |
| tigert | nomis: why dropbear specifically? | 23:34 |
| tigert | [mbm]: good to know | 23:35 |
| tigert | need to try when I have time | 23:35 |
| maddler | gpd: it depends... if you care about speed, I'd say yes :) | 23:35 |
| Tak | does anybody happen to know if the descriptions in the new app catalog accept html? | 23:35 |
| keesj | i use midge and a edimax with two usb sticks | 23:35 |
| tzz | gpd: not unless you are running something specific, like high-availability webserver or database. | 23:35 |
| maddler | tigert: drop me a line if you need help... | 23:35 |
| garrett | openssh is better, as I can sftp and such | 23:35 |
| garrett | BUT | 23:35 |
| tigert | maddler: will do | 23:35 |
| tigert | thanks | 23:35 |
| garrett | all the ssh stuff doesn't work well when sshing to the device unless you are streaming radio or loading a huge web page | 23:36 |
| ||cw | tigert: because it uses half the memory of openssh? db supports scp, good enough | 23:36 |
| garrett | as soon as you stop, then your network drops | 23:36 |
| [mbm] | tigert: as for serial port, the easy way to get a serial port on an embeded device (wrt or n770/800) is to go buy one of those usb data transfer cables for a cellphone | 23:36 |
| garrett | at least for me | 23:36 |
| garrett | a bit annoying | 23:36 |
| gpd | this is to go with my new GeForce 8800GTS etc. I need a new drive for Vista - so should consider 10k | 23:36 |
| tzz | 10K drives are insanely expensive compared to regulars. Flash drives will make them obsolete IMO. | 23:36 |
| maddler | tigert: you are welcome... you have been one of my "masters" for maemo :D | 23:36 |
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| maddler | hahahaha | 23:36 |
| tigert | garrett: oh | 23:36 |
| ||cw | garrett: is that new to the 800? 770 didn't have that issue | 23:36 |
| tigert | garrett: there is a difference, | 23:36 |
| [mbm] | cellphones are either usb or serial, and the usb is just a usb->serial that runs at 3.3v | 23:36 |
| tigert | garrett: if you open the connection from the globe icon yourself | 23:36 |
| tigert | it stays up | 23:36 |
| tigert | if you use an app that "asks" for net | 23:37 |
| tigert | it opens it until the app stops | 23:37 |
| ||cw | gpd: 10k sata2? | 23:37 |
| tigert | then after an idle time it closes it | 23:37 |
| nomis | tigert: uh, dropbear, because that is what I used on the 770 :) | 23:37 |
| [mbm] | so you look for the cable with the serial chip in it | 23:37 |
| tigert | so, open the connection yourself and it should stay up | 23:37 |
| tigert | nomis: openssh works nicely too, the N800 has more ram too | 23:37 |
| tigert | well, flash | 23:37 |
| tigert | whatever | 23:37 |
| gpd | ||cw: yes - 74G Average Seek 4.6 compared to 8.9ms for 500G | 23:37 |
| maddler | nomis: at the 770 time I also had the feeling dropbear was lighter... | 23:37 |
| [mbm] | basically, connecting serial console to a wrt54g is $10 for the cable and 3 wires to connect .. nothing difficult | 23:37 |
| tigert | nomis: I just added the maemo repository for bora to the device | 23:38 |
| garrett | tigert: oh, I see | 23:38 |
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| tigert | and installed ssh with redpill mode | 23:38 |
| garrett | even for a saved network? | 23:38 |
| ||cw | gpd: not the WD 500G I hope... | 23:38 |
| chaos | I don't suppose there's anyone on with GLIB/iconv experience? | 23:38 |
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| tigert | garrett: yea, if you open it yourself | 23:38 |
| gpd | ||cw: why not that? [I have one] | 23:38 |
| maddler | tigert: hmmm... never considered that... | 23:38 |
| tigert | it should stay up | 23:38 |
| Tak | heh, the answer is no | 23:38 |
| garrett | the number lock is nice, but it's annoying that it is a little window with tiny buttons | 23:38 |
| garrett | I want to push buttons with fingers! | 23:38 |
| garrett | heh | 23:38 |
| tigert | maddler: what? :) | 23:38 |
| garrett | well, a finger | 23:38 |
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| ||cw | gpd: the seagates are faster and have better vibration tolerances | 23:38 |
| maddler | that's what I *really* love about maemo!!! You never stop learning... | 23:38 |
| garrett | it gets annoying sometimes too | 23:39 |
| garrett | OH | 23:39 |
| tigert | garrett: yes. a lot of stuff needs to be a bit bigger | 23:39 |
| maddler | tigert: ssh from regular repos in red-pill mode! | 23:39 |
| tigert | but of course the problme is to fit things then | 23:39 |
| tigert | maddler: yeah | 23:39 |
| [mbm] | wifi on the n800 is somewhat flaky | 23:39 |
| garrett | and the "Lock touch screen and keys" should keep the backlight off | 23:39 |
| [mbm] | find it works better if you use iwconfig to set the ssid | 23:39 |
| maddler | tigert: there is nothing like that... | 23:39 |
| tigert | [mbm]: might depend on the auth method too | 23:39 |
| Aleksandyr | maddler: I'm quite sick of "learning" what error messages glib can produce, thanks ;) | 23:39 |
| garrett | I want a mostly suspended mode | 23:39 |
| tigert | I use WEP and dont have any problems | 23:39 |
| [mbm] | garrett: set the dim delay to be the same as the screen poweroff and it works | 23:40 |
| tigert | maddler: no ssh in repos? | 23:40 |
| tigert | maddler: add maemo repository | 23:40 |
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| tzz | I just had my N800 reboot while idle, just Evince running with a 200-page book. Weird. | 23:40 |
| [mbm] | garrett: yeah, I want suspend too | 23:40 |
| garrett | [mbm]: I set the dim delay and stuff to be long | 23:40 |
| garrett | as I use it as an ebook reader | 23:40 |
| maddler | Aleksandyr: hehehe... the price for being an innovator! :D | 23:40 |
| garrett | and it is annoying when I'm reading something and the backlight goes down | 23:40 |
| garrett | or watching a video and the same | 23:40 |
| tigert | tzz: yes. software sometimes has bugs, you know :) | 23:41 |
| garrett | really, those apps should be able to kick the device into a "do not blank" mode or "do not blank for a very long time" | 23:41 |
| maddler | tigert: I didn't searched for openssh... I simply installed my readymade dropbear client :D | 23:41 |
| garrett | and | 23:41 |
| [mbm] | tigert: had one network were the wifi wouldn't connect until I set the essid using iwconfig | 23:41 |
| garrett | there should be different use profiles when plugged in versus battery only | 23:41 |
| tigert | [mbm]: report those as bugs btw | 23:41 |
| [mbm] | you'd see it in the scan, connect, "network failed, try again?" | 23:41 |
| tigert | garrett: apps can do that | 23:41 |
| garrett | and the screen dimming and transient wifi should be full blast | 23:41 |
| tigert | maemo mapper does "do not blank" on fullscreen for example | 23:41 |
| garrett | tigert: ah, so those apps need to be fixed then (; | 23:41 |
| tigert | yes | 23:41 |
| [mbm] | tigert: and then the scan would refuse to show it | 23:42 |
| garrett | fbreader, specifically | 23:42 |
| garrett | tigert: also, I wish the Nokia custom apps were open sourced | 23:42 |
| [mbm] | partly the ap's fault | 23:42 |
| tigert | garrett: no kidding | 23:42 |
| [mbm] | since the ap wasn't responding to the probe request 100% of the time | 23:42 |
| garrett | they're not really that good currently, but would benefit from being open sourced | 23:42 |
| tigert | garrett: the problem is of course, | 23:42 |
| garrett | and nokia should ship some open source apps, like fbreader | 23:42 |
| [mbm] | so it'd respond to a probe and show up on the scna, but then there would be another probe just as it tried to connect that would get ignored | 23:42 |
| garrett | well, fbreader needs some fixing up | 23:43 |
| garrett | it is really nice | 23:43 |
| garrett | but the ui and nice defaults would be good | 23:43 |
| garrett | plus auto detection of books -- it doesn't do that, except for the fb2 format it seems | 23:43 |
| garrett | a bit annoying | 23:43 |
| garrett | I'll have to write this up on the wiki, I believe *g* | 23:43 |
| maddler | hmmm... where can I download kismet's debs? | 23:43 |
| garrett | IRC is not necessarily the right place for this sort of stuff | 23:43 |
| [mbm] | found the kismet debs on one of the repositories.. forgot which now | 23:44 |
| garrett | (it can be sometimes, if the right people are in at the right time and happen to do something about it right away, or at least note it somewhere) | 23:44 |
| maddler | eh... | 23:44 |
| maddler | damn... | 23:44 |
| Aleksandyr | maddler: the price for being an innovator has so far been -275USD and a bunch of weekends ;) | 23:45 |
| maddler | hahahahah | 23:46 |
| maddler | innovation has its price! :D | 23:46 |
| maddler | only 275USD? | 23:46 |
| keesj | and only week-ends? | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | ...I compiled JamVM for a bet, and AbiWord on a lark. | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | -275USD: the developer discount ;) | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | time I spend at work doesn't count | 23:47 |
| maddler | ah... ok... I thought it was the price you actually paid... :D | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | lol | 23:47 |
| [mbm] | Aleksandyr: get a better job and write it off as a buisness expense ;) | 23:48 |
| maddler | I *really* have to thank who proposed me for developer project... | 23:48 |
| maddler | :D | 23:48 |
| tigert | garrett: what opensource needs always, is a maintainer | 23:48 |
| tigert | and to opensource those things, other issues aside, | 23:48 |
| tigert | it needs someone to look after it | 23:48 |
| Aleksandyr | [mbm]: the better job that I start in a few months is with Microsoft, so I don't think they'll let that one fly ;) | 23:48 |
| tigert | otherwise the code will just rot | 23:48 |
| tigert | garrett: fbreader has a yahoo group | 23:49 |
| [mbm] | Aleksandyr: wait, microsoft is better? where the hell are you working now? </linux zelot> | 23:49 |
| tigert | they use as their devel list | 23:49 |
| tigert | subscribe there and give comments | 23:49 |
| Aleksandyr | [mbm]: Microsoft perks include 24/7 laser tag. | 23:49 |
| garrett | tigert: well, is the code just rotting inside Nokia now? | 23:50 |
| garrett | it could be open sourced and handled the same way as is | 23:50 |
| garrett | and then people who care can send patches | 23:50 |
| garrett | it doesn't have to be a community style open source project | 23:50 |
| [mbm] | Aleksandyr: I've visited various large companies, always scares me how much they try to make them look like college campuses | 23:50 |
| keesj | all you need is love | 23:50 |
| * maddler wonders where kismet is! :D | 23:51 | |
| tigert | garrett: yes :) | 23:52 |
| tigert | garrett: but yeah. blog about it | 23:53 |
| garrett | yeah, I will | 23:53 |
| tigert | we need to get you on planet maemo | 23:53 |
| garrett | heh, cool | 23:53 |
| garrett | I need to blog more | 23:53 |
| tigert | yeah | 23:53 |
| garrett | I have things to blog about: GNOME, the Wii, the N800 | 23:53 |
| garrett | oh, and... geee.... photography stuff | 23:53 |
| garrett | heh | 23:53 |
| garrett | I need to get back into that more | 23:54 |
| nomis | tigert: I am wondering - I think I have configured the bora feed, but I don't see a lot of programs in it, esp. no openssh. | 23:54 |
| tigert | nomis: "ssh"? | 23:54 |
| tigert | nomis: red pill mode? | 23:54 |
| nomis | oh. | 23:54 |
| nomis | tigert: how do I activate that again? | 23:55 |
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| kulve | I installed dropbear without redpill mode and it seems to work ok | 23:56 |
| nomis | found it. | 23:57 |
| maddler | kulve: mine? | 23:57 |
| tigert | nomis: got it? | 23:57 |
| nomis | yeah | 23:57 |
| kulve | maddler: dunno. Just from the list I saw :) | 23:57 |
| nomis | dbus debug! | 23:57 |
| tigert | good | 23:57 |
| tigert | :) | 23:57 |
| maddler | dropbear-server? | 23:57 |
| kulve | I added all the interesting repos there and then all the interesting apps | 23:58 |
| kulve | both server and client | 23:58 |
| tigert | maemo mapper worked nicely too | 23:58 |
| maddler | kulve: hmmm... I had some problem installing dropbear-client | 23:58 |
| tigert | once I just added the garage 2.0 repo | 23:58 |
| tigert | even though it is for mistral, it works ok | 23:58 |
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