| Jaffa | Yay! Garage has accepted my GPG key. First MUD-built packages uploaded tomorrow morning :) | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| keesj | tsuperb | 00:05 |
| svu | is there xterm for n800 anywhere? Or should I just use the build for 770? | 00:06 |
| keesj | check the maemo hackers xterm | 00:07 |
| svu | keesj, where? | 00:11 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: a list of what we can expect to play with? ;) Something interesting? | 00:13 |
| VRe | Jaffa: Maybe you could add debians dosfstools to MUD.. maemo's package seems to be missing fsck.vfat for fixing corrupted memorycards | 00:14 |
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| lardman | ah-ha, found the problem - forgot to symlink libvorbisenc.so.* | 00:16 |
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| Jaffa | Veggen: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/packages/?root=mud-builder#dirlist | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | VRe: Patches welcome (http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.php?id=creating) ;-) | 00:29 |
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| lardman | Well using vfp ogg vorbis decoding takes something like 20-30% cpu | 00:32 |
| lardman | I can't see much advantage to using vorbis in this case (over tremor) | 00:33 |
| keesj | xterm also grabs urls and can open them in opera. what a nice feature | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | Jaffa: nit: <copyright>(gpl|lgpl|artistic|bsd</copyright> is missing a ) | 00:35 |
| Jaffa | sp3000: entirely accurate, I'll fix shortly | 00:36 |
| Jaffa | Fixed, thanks for pointing it out. | 00:38 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: not much revolutionary there,but then again mud-builder is meant for the non-revolutonary packages, right? | 00:41 |
| Veggen | vim, I'll look forward to :) | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | Veggen: indeed :) | 00:41 |
| Veggen | irssi, perhaps. | 00:41 |
| Veggen | nd | 00:41 |
| Veggen | netdate is also useful enough, to keep time in sync. | 00:42 |
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| * mitcheloc is sad | 00:47 | |
| mitcheloc | in a few minutes i'm heading over to compusa to return my n800 | 00:47 |
| ||cw | o_O | 00:48 |
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| ||cw | broken? | 00:48 |
| kkito | who is the responsable to port the SDL-gfx to maemo? | 00:48 |
| mitcheloc | the camera is defective, apparently nokia is aware of this and is taking RMAs | 00:49 |
| mitcheloc | i figure i'll just return it and wait a bit, i might just go for a umpc instead | 00:49 |
| mitcheloc | i'm mostly disappointed at the lack of A2DP on the device | 00:49 |
| ||cw | I'm holding out for a openmoko device | 00:49 |
| mitcheloc | I'm not familiar with that? | 00:50 |
| ||cw | I don't browse much on my 770, so I think the neo1973 would do what i need, and replace my 2125 | 00:50 |
| ||cw | linux based cell phone that's fully open, even the drivers | 00:51 |
| ||cw | no wifi in the first version though | 00:51 |
| mitcheloc | i looked up a screen shot, not the most attractive is it | 00:51 |
| ||cw | but being linux, PAN will be easier than with windows mobile | 00:51 |
| mitcheloc | the umpc looks to be what i want, that or an iPhone if only it was an open platform... :( | 00:51 |
| ||cw | those are fully different things | 00:52 |
| Jaffa | keesj: I notice the patch to xmoto's debian/control has a space in the depends line (https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/packages/patch/xmoto.patch?root=mud-builder&rev=109&view=markup) - could this be causing the problems you saw between versions? Does it work better as "..., lua, libsdl-gfx" ? | 00:52 |
| ||cw | well, but then the iPhone and n800 are too | 00:52 |
| mitcheloc | the iphone is a simliar in structure to the n800, just a bit smaller | 00:53 |
| mitcheloc | oh and the addition of a gsm radio | 00:53 |
| kkito | has iphone a maemo or another development plataform? | 00:53 |
| mitcheloc | not that i know of, thats why i said "if only it was an open platform" | 00:54 |
| Jaffa | Nope, it's locked down: you can use XCode to submit things to Apple to ship | 00:54 |
| kkito | well, n800 isnt open at all... | 00:55 |
| Jaffa | kkito: "isn't open at all" is a bit strong. It's a lot more open than any Symbian, Windows Mobile or Apple device. | 00:55 |
| mitcheloc | kkito: i'm confused, are you being sarcastic? | 00:55 |
| mitcheloc | the n800 is pretty damn open, but it's missing a lot of standard functionality | 00:56 |
| kkito | Jaffa, yes, but some drivers are closed, and some hw is not supported under linux and there are no free specs to develop for it | 00:56 |
| Disconnect | kkito: "no free specs" .. like the entire devkit/sdk? | 00:56 |
| Jaffa | kkito: Err, there's no N800 hardware which is not supported under Linux, since the N800 is running Linux and all its hardware works (by definition). Yes, some drivers are closed. | 00:56 |
| kkito | Disconnect, there are no specs to develop a powervr mbx driver for example | 00:57 |
| trenka | kkito: you are strong to build full free hardware platform? | 00:57 |
| Jaffa | kkito: or Jazelle, either. But then those chips would never be used in a fully open device either, so you're not losing anything AFAICS | 00:57 |
| trenka | kkito: I mean with all features of omap2420 and n800 | 00:58 |
| kkito | Jaffa, anyways there are no closed drivers for them too | 00:58 |
| Jaffa | kkito: exactly, so pretend they don't exist. It's not like RMS is going to come along and stomp all over you for using them ;-) | 00:59 |
| trenka | so for you it's better to just cut it out | 00:59 |
| trenka | understand, doctors cannot help this case | 00:59 |
| Jaffa | ...which if TI provide all as part of the SoC might be tricky ;) | 00:59 |
| trenka | there are lots of cross-licensed and cross-patented things there | 01:00 |
| trenka | this is a real hardware world | 01:01 |
| trenka | for ati, nvidia the same | 01:01 |
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| svu | keesj, sorry for the lame question. I just did not know about maemo-hackers.org. thanks | 01:02 |
| maddler | IT'S MY BIRTHDAY!!! | 01:03 |
| maddler | hooray! | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | maddler: happy birthday! | 01:03 |
| maddler | hehehe | 01:03 |
| trenka | maddler: we are sorry | 01:03 |
| maddler | thank you! :DD | 01:03 |
| maddler | trenka: bastard! :DDD | 01:03 |
| trenka | :) | 01:03 |
| kkito | Jaffa, do you know if nokia are going to support powervr and IVA ? Will be drivers and libraries (closed ones) in a near future? | 01:04 |
| |tbb| | happy birthday dude | 01:04 |
| maddler | tbb :) | 01:04 |
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| * maddler handles some cold beer to the channel!!! | 01:04 | |
| Jaffa | kkito: no idea. I'd've thought they'd've been supported already if there were plans to do so; but that's an entirely uneducated guess. | 01:05 |
| * |tbb| takes one | 01:05 | |
| trenka | almost nobody know | 01:05 |
| trenka | knows :) | 01:05 |
| |tbb| | ive installed gpe calender and it tooks me automaticly 2 reboot :/ | 01:06 |
| nomis | maddler: happy birthday. | 01:06 |
| jcml_ | maddler: happy b'day - 21 years young? ;-) | 01:06 |
| sp3000 | |tbb|: did you perchance add the desktop applet before first run? | 01:07 |
| |tbb| | when i try to add the gpe calendar applet | 01:07 |
| |tbb| | yes | 01:07 |
| |tbb| | known bug? | 01:07 |
| nomis | ok. I feel dumb now. | 01:07 |
| nomis | The ROUND macro I forgot to define turned into an unresolved symbol and for some reason the compiler did not complain, but the hildon desktop of course could not load the .so file... | 01:08 |
| sp3000 | http://bugs.linuxtogo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11 | 01:08 |
| sp3000 | |tbb|: ^ | 01:08 |
| nomis | that was like three hours debugging. | 01:09 |
| nomis | gah. | 01:09 |
| myren_ | kkito, powervr? what does nokia have anything to do with powervr? | 01:09 |
| maddler | jcml_: a little more... 35 :D | 01:11 |
| maddler | ok... and now let's flash N800! :D | 01:11 |
| * jcml_ avoids mentioning http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/ | 01:11 | |
| kkito | myren_,? They sell the n800 with a powervr... and with linux... then if nokia wants powervr support under linux, they can contact to TI or powerVr for the specs to developn one, or pay to montavista for example to do the job | 01:12 |
| maddler | logan's run!!! | 01:14 |
| maddler | whoa!!! | 01:14 |
| maddler | damn... flashing N800 is *FAST*! | 01:15 |
| Disconnect | maddler: usb2 | 01:15 |
| maddler | damn!!! | 01:15 |
| maddler | something wrong here!!! | 01:16 |
| |tbb| | yeah i was feeling the true | 01:16 |
| Disconnect | ok its fast, its not FAST.. still takes some time | 01:16 |
| maddler | no... | 01:16 |
| maddler | working... | 01:16 |
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| maddler | a messed Nokia logo was shown at 1st run... | 01:16 |
| Jaffa | maddler: more problems again with maemoppl serving pages? | 01:17 |
| maddler | Jaffa: there was any problem? :O | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | maddler: Ah no, it *really* doesn't like it when you miss out the "www." - serves an empty page | 01:17 |
| maddler | oh... | 01:17 |
| maddler | fixin' it... | 01:17 |
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| andreasn | is there a easy way to figure out what ip-adress my 770-device has? | 01:18 |
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| maddler | ok... | 01:19 |
| maddler | I should also make blogname.maemopeople.org work... | 01:19 |
| Jaffa | andreasn: 3 options: 1) ifconfig in XTerm, 2) Connection Manager > Internet Connection > IP address; 3) install the iphome home screen applet | 01:19 |
| Jaffa | maddler: yeah, that'd be very good. | 01:20 |
| myren_ | kkito: n800 has a friggin powervr? i thought powervr was all 3d chipsets | 01:20 |
| maddler | Jaffa: well... it's on my agenda... | 01:20 |
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| kkito | myren_, OMAP2420 - 330 MHz ARM11 + 220 MHz C55x DSP + PowerVR MBX 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator + IVA | 01:21 |
| andreasn | Jaffa: found it, thanks! | 01:21 |
| myren_ | jeezus. i thought the OMAP2420 opengl optimization was just a couple accelerated vector processing instructions | 01:23 |
| maddler | kkito: are you .it? | 01:23 |
| myren_ | i had no idea they had anything resembling a graphics accelerator | 01:23 |
| maddler | or was it an .it site? | 01:23 |
| myren_ | what is the IVA? | 01:23 |
| maddler | IVA is italian for VAT | 01:23 |
| maddler | 20% | 01:23 |
| maddler | and being italian... that sucks! | 01:24 |
| kkito | IVA (Imaging and Video Accelerator). | 01:24 |
| kkito | maddler, .it? | 01:24 |
| maddler | doh... sorry... :) | 01:24 |
| maddler | was confused... | 01:24 |
| maddler | :) | 01:24 |
| maddler | thought you were talking about prices... :D | 01:24 |
| kkito | The iva is the chip that uses the n93i for realtime mpeg video encoding at 640x480 | 01:24 |
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| kkito | and actually, the mediaplayer from n800 is using the 4 ears old (ore more) c55x dsp for video decoding.... (i think...) | 01:25 |
| andreasn | Jaffa: I get a "No route to host" when I try to ssh to my 770 device, am I missing some package? | 01:25 |
| lle2 | kkito: it's doing most of it on arm11 | 01:25 |
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| kkito | lle2, sure? | 01:26 |
| lle2 | kkito: and a little colorspace conversion on the external fb chip | 01:26 |
| lle2 | kkito: yeah, quite. | 01:26 |
| Jaffa | andreasn: nope, try making a connection from the 770 to the box you're trying to SSH from (e.g. ssh, telnet, ping or even web browser). Doesn't have to work, just ensures everything knows the routing tables. | 01:27 |
| kkito | lle2, oh | 01:27 |
| myren_ | i thought the video player used gstreamer and gstreamer had a DSP plugin to do a lot of decoding | 01:27 |
| myren_ | thats suprising news to me | 01:27 |
| lle2 | on 770 the dsp did video decoding | 01:28 |
| myren_ | lle2, is source available for any of that? | 01:28 |
| lle2 | myren_: no, the codecs are not public | 01:29 |
| kkito | myren_, there are free c55x mpeg implementations on the net | 01:29 |
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| andreasn | Jaffa: entering my laptops ip into the web browser gives me "Could not connect to remote server" | 01:29 |
| andreasn | Jaffa: I totally suck at these things :) | 01:30 |
| myren_ | kkito: sweet. i want to do some realtime fft stuff with audio signals. having some reference code that uses the c55 would be most handy. | 01:30 |
| Jaffa | andreasn: your 770 is connected to the right wlan and is otherwise OK? | 01:30 |
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| andreasn | Jaffa: yes, I can browse the web and stuff | 01:31 |
| lardman | n800 vfp ogg stuff here for anyone who's interested: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/temp/vorbis-stuff.tar.gz | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | andreasn: hmm, difficult to say then. | 01:31 |
| andreasn | Jaffa: might be my router that is configured weird | 01:31 |
| andreasn | Jaffa: thanks for the help anyway | 01:32 |
| lardman | night all | 01:32 |
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| lle2 | kkito: the omap co-processors are a real pain in the ass to use, they don't fit into the sw arch in any sensible way, so either you create a totally nasty hack or have sub-optimal implementation | 01:32 |
| lle2 | kkito: in most cases just forgetting them is easiest and produces better results than the sub-optimal solution that didn't entirely screw everything | 01:34 |
| myren_ | lle2: :( | 01:34 |
| kkito | lle2, what omap coprocessors? | 01:34 |
| lle2 | the iva and the dsp | 01:34 |
| c0ffee | that's what you get for using all the fancy frameworks | 01:34 |
| myren_ | lle2, whats the availability of documentation & support? | 01:34 |
| c0ffee | instead of good old asm | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | maddler: did you get USB host working on your N800? I thought you said you did, but can't find it in the logs | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | Aha, found it. You did say it :) | 01:35 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: yeah, it wouldn't be a problem at all if we didn't have any OS to get in our way ;) | 01:35 |
| kkito | lle2, it is not possible to a library with basic graphical operations that uses the IVA? an then developers use it for speed his multimedia apps | 01:35 |
| lle2 | kkito: you easily end up with something that needs to make an extra copy or two of the data | 01:35 |
| lle2 | kkito: poof, there went your speed-up | 01:36 |
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| svu | gamn. n800 gone into endless reboot loop. what could this be?? | 01:36 |
| lle2 | kkito: the omap is totally bottlenecked by memory bandwidth | 01:37 |
| myren_ | sdr, not ddr? | 01:37 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: no... I was talking about USB networking... | 01:38 |
| Jaffa | ah, of course. | 01:38 |
| lle2 | myren_: ddr but that doesn't solve the problem :) | 01:38 |
| myren_ | that is extensively weird | 01:38 |
| maddler | that's nice... talk and whatever working while connected via USB @office... | 01:38 |
| lle2 | one of the causes for all the headaches is the external fb | 01:39 |
| maddler | were I _cannot_ even think to switch wi-fi on... | 01:39 |
| lle2 | nobody but the ARM11 can write to it, if I'm not mistaken | 01:39 |
| lle2 | so you end up having to make the roundtrip | 01:39 |
| myren_ | external fb + onboard powervr? bogus. | 01:39 |
| lle2 | yup | 01:39 |
| lle2 | there's not enough sram on omap to hold the fb | 01:40 |
| myren_ | ahh right | 01:40 |
| lle2 | it would end up sitting in system memory, and then the lcd would refresh it 50+ times per second from thee | 01:40 |
| lle2 | there | 01:40 |
| lle2 | which would be pretty bad for everything | 01:40 |
| lle2 | at least with 770 it would not have worked at all | 01:41 |
| lle2 | n800 is not that much faster | 01:41 |
| myren_ | the powervr thing is really tripping me out | 01:42 |
| myren_ | you cant blit because theres on onboard fb | 01:42 |
| myren_ | if its not a rasterizer | 01:42 |
| myren_ | wtf is it | 01:42 |
| myren_ | *no onboard fb | 01:43 |
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| lle2 | the powervr might be usable in pixel doubled mode | 01:44 |
| myren_ | that would require non-insignificant sram | 01:44 |
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| lle2 | yeah, but it would fit | 01:44 |
| lle2 | there's 640kB of sram | 01:44 |
| myren_ | ohh god | 01:44 |
| lle2 | it's not really used for anything | 01:44 |
| eeejay | would anyone like to try a video chat? | 01:45 |
| myren_ | oh. i assumed it was used for L2 cache or something | 01:45 |
| myren_ | if its free tahts a different story | 01:45 |
| lle2 | no, it's just sitting there, contemplating the uselessness of life | 01:45 |
| * myren_ is frigging dying for hte programmers manual on the 2420 | 01:45 | |
| lle2 | but don't get your hopes up on the powervr | 01:46 |
| lle2 | that would require a licensing agreement | 01:46 |
| maddler | hmmm... there is somthing wrong witg udhcp... | 01:46 |
| myren_ | who owns powervr these days? didnt some embedded company buy it off 3dlabs? | 01:47 |
| maddler | the udhcpc.script is being executed again and again... | 01:47 |
| lle2 | myren_: I think it's called imagination technologies | 01:47 |
| maddler | and this make dbus-daemon eat cpu... | 01:47 |
| maddler | gotta work it out... | 01:47 |
| |tbb| | maddler could it be thats the ground why kismet stop working sommetimes? | 01:48 |
| maddler | tbb... no... | 01:48 |
| maddler | kismet is not supposed to be asking dhcp leases... :D | 01:49 |
| |tbb| | but it often stops working, iirc someone in kismet says something like that (dhcp related) | 01:50 |
| |tbb| | #kismet btw | 01:50 |
| maddler | dunno... try changing you wlan config if you can... | 01:51 |
| maddler | and give you N800 a fixed IP | 01:51 |
| maddler | that's first remedy | 01:51 |
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| maddler | I'm trying to understand where the problem comes from... | 01:54 |
| kkito | lle2, then we are not going to see the powervr running in the n800? | 01:56 |
| maddler | I'd also be happy to undertand why dropbear takes so long to start... | 01:58 |
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| gpd | anyone have any insider tips on Video cards -- i am about to buy a GeForce 8800GTS for $399 with $30 rebate -- slightly panicy | 02:03 |
| myren_ | kkito: basically we'd have to find another project with powervr support and reverse engineer it into working | 02:03 |
| myren_ | gpd: its an amazing vid card, but i'm a little worried it'll get outclassed in another 6 months | 02:04 |
| myren_ | i bought a 7600GT to hold me over until ATI & nV both release new silicon. | 02:04 |
| gpd | myren_: agreed. I am also worried about this PC2 8000 RAM which seems EXPENSIVE at $340/2G | 02:04 |
| myren_ | that seems exceedingly high to me | 02:05 |
| myren_ | oh thats DDR1000 or something? | 02:05 |
| gpd | it is DDR2 1000 | 02:05 |
| kkito | myren_, there are the project kallisti-os, that has a pseudo opengl implementation using the powervr from dreamcast... | 02:05 |
| myren_ | kkito: thanks for the linkage. i'll definately give it a good once over. although i suspect the powervr will be signficantly different. | 02:06 |
| myren_ | gpd: do you have any truly compelling reason for such highspeed ram? games will be quite happy with a "mere DDR800" | 02:06 |
| gpd | myren_: not really - you are probably right | 02:07 |
| kkito | myren_, omap devices that runs montavista has powervr support | 02:07 |
| * Jaffa beds. | 02:08 | |
| myren_ | kkito: i'm not really familiar with what montavista offers, but i've been under the impression theres very little available for download without an SDK purchase. | 02:08 |
| myren_ | but the more projects with powervr the better | 02:08 |
| gpd | myren_: do you think crucial or corsair or other [sorry # for offtopic!] | 02:09 |
| myren_ | g.skill | 02:12 |
| myren_ | its a wonderful value | 02:12 |
| gpd | indeed -- DDR2 800 g.skill = $184! | 02:12 |
| myren_ | very well made ram, usually overclocks past its rated spec fairly well, and the price is hard to beat | 02:12 |
| myren_ | it was made buy a couple gamers who got sick of getting ripped off on ram | 02:13 |
| gpd | nice nice - thanks for the tip | 02:13 |
| myren_ | my pleasure. | 02:13 |
| gpd | I am also known as 'G' - so perfect fit | 02:13 |
| myren_ | the ram comes with stickers. :) | 02:14 |
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| nomis | for the curious: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/statusbardisco_0.1_armel.deb | 02:17 |
| nomis | right now only an additional indicator for brightness/volume, but is supposed to evolve into something full featured. | 02:18 |
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| maddler | I should definitely make a quick restore script... | 02:19 |
| maddler | whit patched system files, packages and so on | 02:20 |
| nomis | is there a simple way to get screenshots from the N800? I forgot how I did it on the 770. | 02:21 |
| maddler | osso statusbar cpu monitor | 02:21 |
| maddler | supposed to be for 770 but working pretty well on 800 | 02:22 |
| nomis | ah. | 02:22 |
| maddler | thumb kbd rocks | 02:22 |
| maddler | hehe | 02:22 |
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| gpd | myren_: Timing: 4-4-3-5 $239 or Timing: 4-4-4-12 $215 ??? | 02:26 |
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| Jaffa | nomis: ssh in and run osso-screenshot-tool | 02:34 |
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| * Jaffa actually beds now. | 02:35 | |
| nomis | Jaffa: I don't see that from Xterm. Is it part of the default installation? | 02:35 |
| nomis | Jaffa: night. | 02:35 |
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| Texrat | anyone here? | 03:30 |
| Milhouse | Nope :( | 03:31 |
| Texrat | just you and me Mil? | 03:31 |
| Milhouse | looks like it! pretty late over here!! | 03:31 |
| Texrat | last night it was just me and rofltosh :( | 03:31 |
| Milhouse | you just knocking off? | 03:31 |
| Texrat | oh crap-- you in UK? | 03:31 |
| Milhouse | yep - 01:31 | 03:31 |
| Texrat | I'm in US... 7:32 | 03:32 |
| Texrat | I guess I'm the rare one...lol | 03:32 |
| Milhouse | just a quick scan of ITT then heading off | 03:32 |
| Texrat | ok, later | 03:32 |
| Milhouse | Q for you: What's going on with these reboot loops - I take it Nokia are aware? | 03:32 |
| Texrat | oh yes they know, but I'm...brace yourself... out of the loop | 03:32 |
| Texrat | come next week I no longer have official involvement :( | 03:33 |
| Pio | zing! | 03:33 |
| Milhouse | <winces> | 03:33 |
| Milhouse | :) | 03:33 |
| Texrat | no :( | 03:33 |
| Milhouse | no way - at all? | 03:33 |
| Texrat | product is going to Mexico... along with my job | 03:33 |
| Milhouse | sorry to hear that fella | 03:33 |
| Texrat | thanks | 03:33 |
| Milhouse | you moving on to another product? | 03:33 |
| Texrat | still hoping for smething | 03:33 |
| Texrat | our plant is closing | 03:33 |
| Texrat | kaput | 03:34 |
| Texrat | zero US production | 03:34 |
| shackan | ewwwwwwww, that SUCKS | 03:34 |
| Milhouse | i'll keep my fingers crossed, I'm currently working out my garden leave myself (redundancy) | 03:34 |
| shackan | sorry to hear that | 03:34 |
| Texrat | ah. thanks | 03:34 |
| Texrat | we were led to believe the plant had a future, but that was just to keep us motivated | 03:35 |
| Texrat | last day is April 13 | 03:35 |
| Milhouse | ouch, now that does suck | 03:35 |
| shackan | who's your employer? | 03:35 |
| Texrat | yeah... but I blame US head of division, not corporate | 03:35 |
| Texrat | <whisper>Nokia</whisper> | 03:35 |
| Milhouse | Nokia are supposed to be a good company to work for (though that might just be in Finland) | 03:36 |
| Texrat | they are great-- the US head is just an asshole | 03:36 |
| *** mburns has left #maemo | 03:36 | |
| Texrat | excuse me: arsehole :lol: | 03:36 |
| Milhouse | I hear you there - that's why I'm in the situation I'm in... I told my boss (in NY) he was an asshole (not in so many words, but he got the message) | 03:37 |
| Texrat | I love my job, I love the products | 03:37 |
| Texrat | good for you | 03:37 |
| Texrat | hope it works out for you Mil | 03:37 |
| Milhouse | I hope you get located somewhere within Nokia | 03:37 |
| Texrat | there is an office half hour away I'm trying to land at | 03:37 |
| Texrat | I'm lobbying, networking, begging, you name it | 03:38 |
| Texrat | selling my skills | 03:38 |
| Texrat | I hoped the N800 program would find a further need for me but so far not yet | 03:39 |
| Milhouse | Who else is going to (almost) give us the inside scoop on the next Nokia Internet Tablet now???!! | 03:39 |
| Texrat | mexico | 03:39 |
| Milhouse | hola! | 03:39 |
| Texrat | good luck | 03:39 |
| Texrat | they are not prepared | 03:39 |
| Texrat | it's gonna get ugly | 03:39 |
| Milhouse | :( | 03:39 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: what're these reboot loops you speak of? | 03:40 |
| Texrat | you have no idea how hard I worked on keeping bad N800s from getting out the door... | 03:40 |
| myren_ | gpd: did you buy the ram? 4-4-3-5.... that must be a mistype. 4-4-3-15? | 03:40 |
| Milhouse | robot101: some unlucky users experience their devices rebooting repeatedly | 03:40 |
| Robot101 | I just caught my device doing that, the only thing I changed today was installing osso-xterm and mediastreamer | 03:41 |
| Texrat | xterm seems to be a common denominator | 03:41 |
| Robot101 | on the upside, I have a jig so I can debug it tomorrow :) | 03:41 |
| Texrat | good deal | 03:41 |
| Texrat | I really wish program would package an x terminal with the OS | 03:42 |
| Milhouse | Texrat: I appreciate all the effort you put in - but unfortunately I'm getting the impression the product was rushed to market, and I'm sure you probably said as much to "management" | 03:42 |
| *** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk | 03:42 | |
| Texrat | Milhouse: I did what I could with the time I had | 03:42 |
| Texrat | I can't say more :x | 03:42 |
| Milhouse | And for that, we are grateful - I dread to think how much worse it could have been | 03:42 |
| Texrat | :shudders: you don't wanna know, and I can't say ;) | 03:43 |
| Texrat | I felt I should have gotten a bonus out of it, but... oh well | 03:43 |
| Milhouse | Robot101 - I'm not sure what causes it, but there are at least a couple of thread about it on ITT. If you can't stop it from looping at reboot, try disabling the lifeguard-reset (details on ITT) | 03:43 |
| myren_ | "you dont wanna know" | 03:43 |
| myren_ | ouch | 03:43 |
| Texrat | well, the public rarely knows what doesn't ge let out | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: that won't really help, it'll just wedge instead of looping then. :) | 03:44 |
| myren_ | thats significantly different from the public not even wanting to know. | 03:44 |
| myren_ | was there ever any discussion on licensing the powervr tech? | 03:44 |
| Texrat | in fact it SHOULD be that way: internal QA and MFR should have inverse relationship | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: I'm guessing something is upsetting maemo-af-desktop or the x server | 03:44 |
| Milhouse | Robot101 - some users have stated it helps get it through the boot | 03:44 |
| myren_ | just curious whether it got batted around at all | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: hmm... boggle. | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: do they say that reflashing helps? | 03:45 |
| Texrat | Myren: no idea | 03:45 |
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| Milhouse | Texrat - it does make me laugh sometimes at how Nokia attempt (and fail) to balance the open source mentality with the corporate secrecy | 03:45 |
| Texrat | change MFR to FFR, sorry | 03:45 |
| Texrat | Milhouse: yeah, well, corporate politics... | 03:46 |
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| Milhouse | Robot101 - yes, sometimes, eventually but of course that resets the device to default so you should try disabling the lifeguard-reset as the first step then re-enable it once you've got a successful boot | 03:46 |
| Texrat | they want both worlds, and it's a fine line to walk | 03:46 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: how do you mean fail? they are balancing: the open source project exists and sells products, and there's also an open source community with some measure of nokia involvement. | 03:46 |
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| Robot101 | Milhouse: this is a success, believe me. | 03:47 |
| Texrat | Robot: a semi-success | 03:47 |
| Texrat | still needs polish | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: compare to eg motorola's linux-based phones. do you see them running planets, svn repos, packages, any sdk...? | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | Texrat: sure, learning process, but calling it a failure is very harsh. | 03:47 |
| Milhouse | And there's an internal bugzilla we don't have any access to, and the problems with the N800 are obvious but being covered up | 03:47 |
| Texrat | where we came up short is not being as forthcoming as I think we should have been | 03:48 |
| Milhouse | Indeed - more openess would help | 03:48 |
| Texrat | but there's an executive layer that stifles that | 03:48 |
| Milhouse | Robot101 - I don't dispute that Nokia have gone out on a limb with the internet tablets and they should be praised for that, but they've kind of only gone half-way | 03:48 |
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| Robot101 | Milhouse: the internal bugzilla is definitely a necessity, it contains the information about the future developments etc | 03:49 |
| Texrat | agreed, hence let's use semi-success instead of failure | 03:49 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: the problem is that the internal developers don't spend enough time on the external bugzilla | 03:49 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: not that the internal one exists | 03:49 |
| Texrat | agreed | 03:49 |
| Milhouse | I get the impression there's a small group within Nokia battling to do the right thing and being put in their place by the old guard | 03:49 |
| Texrat | :x | 03:49 |
| Texrat | the PHONE culture rules | 03:49 |
| Texrat | we are rebels | 03:49 |
| Milhouse | Future developments can be protected in a public bugzilla - look at the Mozilla bugzilla, you don't get to see the security related bugs until they are made public. Same could apply to unannounced features/products | 03:50 |
| Texrat | I need to find a way to convey that safely and properly on ITT | 03:50 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: right, but the exact mechanism doesn't ultimately matter. there will be things which people will never see. the main thing is including publically submitted bugs into the internal QA process. | 03:51 |
| Texrat | it sounds like we are moving to consensus on the subject ;) | 03:51 |
| Milhouse | Robot101 - I'd say that the existence of the internal bugzilla demonstrates a lack of openness (sp?) | 03:51 |
| Texrat | or not | 03:52 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: there are many reasons why the entire product development can't be conducted in the clear, contractual reasons, competitive reasons, IPR, all sorts. | 03:52 |
| Milhouse | on an open source project, which the N800 is by and large, a single public bugzilla could/should be used | 03:52 |
| Texrat | you both have equally valid points | 03:52 |
| Milhouse | and it's late :) | 03:53 |
| Texrat | not for me :p | 03:53 |
| Milhouse | I can see the closed source/contractual stuff should be witheld, but the open source stuff? nope. | 03:53 |
| Milhouse | bah :) | 03:53 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: you need to balance this idealism with a modicom of reality, yes the public input could be better dealt with but that doesn't mean everything goes out in the open. | 03:53 |
| Texrat | here's the problem with the N800: it can't be 100% open source because it's a hardware/software combo | 03:53 |
| Texrat | so again we tread a fine line | 03:54 |
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| Texrat | now, divorce the device, and Milhouse is 100% on target | 03:54 |
| Texrat | but we can't | 03:54 |
| Milhouse | yet? | 03:54 |
| Texrat | ... | 03:54 |
| Texrat | can't say, but I'm betting never | 03:54 |
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| Milhouse | probably right - my guess is nokia need to maintain some sort of hold on the platform | 03:55 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: more like: I don't think Nokia would spend much time on developing the software if they weren't producing products. | 03:55 |
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| Milhouse | robot101: agreed | 03:55 |
| Texrat | exactly. People keep comparing tablet program to general linux efforts and that's an error | 03:55 |
| Robot101 | so you can't just develop the platform in abstract, it needs to be driven by product requirements and hardware and as such needs to go hand in hand with internal (and hence not public) processes. | 03:55 |
| Texrat | most linux vendors/developers avoid hardware | 03:56 |
| konfoo | we do fine with hardware :) | 03:56 |
| Texrat | :p | 03:56 |
| Texrat | you know what I mean | 03:56 |
| Robot101 | even the best linux-supporting hardware vendors have to draw the line at leaking their product details | 03:56 |
| Milhouse | this might well end up being Nokias biggest challenge. they certainly need to avoid the 770->N800 transition next time around | 03:56 |
| Texrat | wholly agreed | 03:56 |
| Texrat | even management has acknowledged the hardware abstraction error | 03:57 |
| Robot101 | intel doesn't provide specs or roadmaps for their graphics chips but they put out top quality X/kernel drivers for their chips from the 1st day they're available | 03:57 |
| Texrat | good analogy | 03:57 |
| Robot101 | I was actually wondering during the N800 development cycle how far the core stuff had diverged from the 770 | 03:57 |
| konfoo | milhouse seems to forget the other fact that employees are paid to do their job so yes they will spend time on internal bugzilla before external bugs. looks real good on the performance report.. 'yeah im sorry i didnt fix that bug cause i was piddling with this other bug here that a user sent me' 'oh what is the business case for fixing it.. ummmm' | 03:57 |
| Texrat | this isn't corporate gospel, but I'm *betting* that you won't see such an abrupt transition from here on out | 03:58 |
| Texrat | konfoo nailed it | 03:58 |
| Milhouse | konfoo - i'm simply saying that a public bugzilla could serve both parties equally well | 03:58 |
| Milhouse | why have two when one will do? | 03:58 |
| Texrat | yes, but his point is valid | 03:58 |
| konfoo | who is going to dedicate the time to it on the corporate side? | 03:58 |
| Texrat | it comes down to resource budgeting and allocation | 03:58 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: why obsess over why you have one or two when that's nothing to do with it? | 03:58 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: far more developer time is put into the forthcoming product than the existing one | 03:59 |
| Texrat | see, there's where comparing this to traditional linux projects comes up short | 03:59 |
| konfoo | someone has to go off and write a budget as a minimum.. its no conspiracy theory.. most corps just dont have the time or inclination. too busy chasing real fish instead of tire kickers | 03:59 |
| Texrat | maemo != ubuntu | 03:59 |
| Milhouse | A public tracker is a mainstay of most open source projects, this is an open source project yet the public tracker gets little attention. This is one of the few projects where this happened | 04:00 |
| konfoo | yeah we have the same problem with our set top boxes | 04:00 |
| Texrat | so knfoo you are in my boat ;) | 04:00 |
| konfoo | yes, i have been for the last 3 companies ive worked at :) | 04:00 |
| Texrat | can't divorce the device from the OS | 04:00 |
| Milhouse | i see no diff between an internal and public tracker, but obviously the latter allows more community involvement if and when nokia deem it permissible (through privileges etc.) | 04:00 |
| konfoo | its really not that foreign anymore | 04:00 |
| Milhouse | but hey.. i'm not a nokia developer, just a member of the community :) | 04:01 |
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| Texrat | seriously, the world Milhouse wnats to see would require Nokia to get completely out of OS and just serve up the device, like PC manufacturers... | 04:01 |
| Texrat | not meant as an insult mil | 04:02 |
| konfoo | milhouse im sure nokia people would agree with you to an extent but it just doesn't sound financially feasible at a minimum | 04:02 |
| wasabi_ | I like my n770, have had it since it first came out, but I am pretty disappointed in it. | 04:02 |
| wasabi_ | In terms of the success of third party apps anyways. | 04:02 |
| wasabi_ | Nobody makes any. Just some simple ports of existing apps. | 04:02 |
| wasabi_ | Except maemo mapper. It rocks. :) | 04:02 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: well, I think you should cut Nokia a bit more slack. the fact there's a maemo.org and there are any nokians working on it is awesome, and they're working to improve stuff all the time, in an environment that's not always hospitable. | 04:02 |
| konfoo | wasabi_: well there werent really options like python, mono, etc for the longest time on the 770 | 04:03 |
| Milhouse | texrat/konfoo - i don't doubt it would be easy, but it jars a bit when nokia bang the open source drum and there is so little progress in the public bugzilla, it truly is a black hole at times but hey :) | 04:03 |
| Texrat | wasabi: I don't think enough 770 devices were actually used to get the support you are looking for | 04:03 |
| wasabi_ | I don't even really see that as the problem. | 04:03 |
| konfoo | it always takes at least 1-2 generations of hardware for the hackers to catch up | 04:03 |
| Robot101 | Milhouse: and as you've rightly perceived the internal priorities don't always match up with the community ones, so some people do get torn in different directions. | 04:03 |
| wasabi_ | Lack of a public apt repository, or basic Debian development practices, imo, is what's done it | 04:03 |
| wasabi_ | Ya know, people with upload privs heh | 04:03 |
| wasabi_ | And some sort of actual community goal. | 04:03 |
| Texrat | Milhouse: I agree with you in principle, but again: corporate politics kills the best of development intentions | 04:03 |
| Milhouse | understood :( | 04:04 |
| Texrat | agreed wasabi | 04:04 |
| Texrat | trust me, I hate it (in this case) more than you :p | 04:04 |
| Texrat | (to mil) | 04:04 |
| konfoo | yeah thats really the thing missing from the picture | 04:04 |
| wasabi_ | Nobody can commit, and nobody can build the complete system on their own. | 04:04 |
| wasabi_ | And nobody has access to the intentions of the developers. | 04:04 |
| konfoo | you have the garage, you have the new repo coming online, you have the wiki... where are the community areas to tie it together | 04:04 |
| Texrat | wasabi, I would love to see a more cohesive community effort around the tablets | 04:05 |
| konfoo | and i dont mean ITT | 04:05 |
| wasabi_ | Texrat: I'd just prefer hildon get released as a plain ol' open source project, uploaded to Debian or Ubuntu, and then the firmware driven from that. | 04:05 |
| Texrat | hell, if I had the resources, I'd start the effort myself | 04:05 |
| wasabi_ | And the N guys can upload directly into Debian or Ubuntu. | 04:05 |
| Robot101 | Texrat: they've just hired Quim Gil, he might be able to help make some of that happen | 04:05 |
| wasabi_ | Or, take the Ubuntu route and establish a sync procedure. | 04:05 |
| Robot101 | (coming from a GNOME background) | 04:05 |
| Texrat | wasabi, that won't happen. With a handset manufacturer firmware comes first | 04:05 |
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| wasabi_ | There was a wee bit of talk by Carlos at UDS about getting an Ubuntu community port going. | 04:06 |
| Texrat | the linux community tends to "forget" Nokia is first and foremost a handset maker | 04:06 |
| wasabi_ | And being able to install Ubuntu on the 770, with additional n700 specific packages. | 04:06 |
| wasabi_ | That would be ideal imo. | 04:06 |
| Texrat | this linux thing is essentially new to us | 04:06 |
| Texrat | remember, we bought into S60 | 04:07 |
| wasabi_ | If improvements to the core infrastructure that we all love, Debian, would sync to the n770. | 04:07 |
| * Robot101 should put his laptop out of bed, and focus more on the sleeping | 04:07 | |
| Robot101 | 'night folks | 04:07 |
| wasabi_ | night. =) | 04:07 |
| Texrat | 'night | 04:07 |
| Texrat | konfoo, did you ask for a 770 cover? | 04:07 |
| Milhouse | night Robot | 04:08 |
| konfoo | Texrat: no.. but ill take an 800 cover if theres a new one out... ;) | 04:08 |
| * konfoo whistles | 04:08 | |
| Texrat | lol. ok, just checking. I accidentally deleted some PMs | 04:08 |
| Milhouse | Need. N800. Cover...! :) Any ETA for the Nokia N800 cover? | 04:08 |
| Texrat | sorry, no 800 covers | 04:08 |
| Texrat | out of that loop now | 04:09 |
| wasabi_ | The N800 doesn't come with a cover? | 04:09 |
| Milhouse | ah yes, sorry | 04:09 |
| Texrat | I can't even get N800s for co-workers anymore | 04:09 |
| Texrat | but my kids got them for Christmas ;) | 04:09 |
| konfoo | wasabi_: a little sleeve thing | 04:09 |
| Texrat | before you guys :p | 04:09 |
| wasabi_ | Texrat: dfw? | 04:09 |
| Texrat | yes | 04:09 |
| wasabi_ | Me too. ;) | 04:09 |
| Milhouse | Christmas???!! Wow, did they come with NDAs? | 04:09 |
| Texrat | cool | 04:09 |
| wasabi_ | konfoo: That sucks. I love the cover on the 770 | 04:09 |
| Texrat | lol Milhouse-- I lectured them | 04:09 |
| konfoo | wasabi_: same here... the sleeve is annoying too | 04:10 |
| wasabi_ | I think I'm going to skip the n800 | 04:10 |
| Texrat | I've been in product development their whole life so they understand this stuff | 04:10 |
| wasabi_ | Until some compelling open source platform appears. :) | 04:10 |
| konfoo | oh its definitely worth it | 04:10 |
| konfoo | but thats just mho :) | 04:10 |
| wasabi_ | Texrat: You work on N? | 04:10 |
| Texrat | guys, serious: that case logic case is very nice | 04:10 |
| Texrat | yes wasabi, until April 13 | 04:10 |
| wasabi_ | Off 183? | 04:11 |
| Texrat | no, Alliance, 170 | 04:11 |
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| Texrat | trying to get relocated to 183 before I'm laid off | 04:11 |
| wasabi_ | Heh. | 04:11 |
| wasabi_ | Being laid off? | 04:11 |
| Texrat | yes | 04:11 |
| Texrat | our plant is dead | 04:12 |
| konfoo | that sux good luck | 04:12 |
| wasabi_ | That sucks. | 04:12 |
| Texrat | boss took us all to lunch today because morale is in the shitter | 04:12 |
| wasabi_ | Whatcha do? :) | 04:12 |
| Texrat | QA, programming at first but now quality engineer | 04:12 |
| Texrat | you gusy have me to thank for defects being as low as they are on N800 ;) | 04:13 |
| Texrat | guys* | 04:13 |
| Milhouse | Was just gonna say, laying of N800 QA guys seems like the dumbest ever decision | 04:13 |
| wasabi_ | heh. didn't know they did any maemo related antying in dfw | 04:13 |
| wasabi_ | I would have applied here. ;) | 04:13 |
| Texrat | they don't, wasabi | 04:13 |
| Milhouse | Dumber, in fact, than not putting a case on the N800... ;) | 04:13 |
| Texrat | thanks Mil | 04:13 |
| Texrat | mexico qa guys will pick it up | 04:14 |
| Texrat | no experience tho | 04:14 |
| Texrat | and they don't want my advice... | 04:14 |
| jtra | hey, new shisensho game is released http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/stuff/maemo/shisensho.html | 04:14 |
| Texrat | o nice | 04:14 |
| Texrat | games are good | 04:14 |
| jtra | new version, that is | 04:14 |
| Texrat | that is very nice looking | 04:15 |
| Texrat | tested on N800 yet? | 04:15 |
| jtra | Texrat: there is another one - http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/stuff/maemo/togglegame.html | 04:15 |
| jtra | Texrat: no, I don't have any | 04:15 |
| Texrat | very cool | 04:15 |
| Texrat | you have no idea how much I appreciate the game developers | 04:16 |
| Texrat | you guys will make or break these devices | 04:16 |
| Texrat | :applauds: | 04:16 |
| wasabi_ | I think a good email/pim client would go a long way towards that. ;0 | 04:16 |
| Texrat | true, but games are IT | 04:16 |
| wasabi_ | My company would jump to replace the smartphones/pocketpcs with a 770. | 04:16 |
| wasabi_ | Nobody uses that shit as a phone anyways. | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | But, no PIm. | 04:17 |
| Texrat | crap, wasabi, don't get me started | 04:17 |
| konfoo | that crap is unusable | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | no VPN. | 04:17 |
| Texrat | vpn exists | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | But everybody USES it | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | because it's the only option. | 04:17 |
| konfoo | my wife gave up her sk3 for a tmobile dash and returned it 2 days later | 04:17 |
| konfoo | what a POS | 04:17 |
| Texrat | I found an internal use for the 770 but got almost zero support :/ | 04:17 |
| Milhouse | the internet tablet definately needs a very strong secondary function - internet surfing alone isn't enough to sway some buyers. Great video or games would be a good secondary function. Email too. | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | If there was another option: the 800/770, people would jump on it. | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | I hope pvanhoof saves us. | 04:17 |
| wasabi_ | The PocketPCs are a pain in the ass, but they work, barely. | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | CEOs can read their email on the road. That's all that matters. | 04:18 |
| Texrat | I got a kick out of the guy on ITT who asked "what do i do with my tablet?" ROFL | 04:18 |
| konfoo | as a phone they suck | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | Yeah. We buy our marketing department them. | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | And phones. | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | They carry both. | 04:18 |
| konfoo | heh indeed | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | Waste of data plan, waste of money. Sucky software. | 04:18 |
| wasabi_ | But the only thing they can get their email/cal/contacts on. | 04:19 |
| konfoo | try dial a number on a tmobile dash. you cant without using 2 hands or creating a contact | 04:19 |
| konfoo | and navigating to a contact.. oy vey | 04:19 |
| Milhouse | Avoid the SonyEricsson W950i smartphone (Symbian UIQ) - horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE POS. | 04:19 |
| Texrat | I can't share details but I will tell you guys this: there is a LOT of internal activity on N800 now | 04:19 |
| Texrat | I can't ooverstate that | 04:20 |
| konfoo | i get very angry when i see the 'START' button on a phone | 04:20 |
| Milhouse | Excellent - I do hope you can keep in touch with some of it! | 04:20 |
| wasabi_ | haha | 04:20 |
| konfoo | start what? its already running the phone app! | 04:20 |
| wasabi_ | I'm practical. I just want a good device I can support easily that gets the job done. | 04:20 |
| wasabi_ | The N*** is SO CLOSE | 04:20 |
| Texrat | I'm biased, but I really prefer our phones over others | 04:20 |
| wasabi_ | As an added benefit, I can contribute to it once I buy a dozen of them, but I can't buy a dozen of them until they serve some purpose. | 04:20 |
| Texrat | I hate Moto interface | 04:20 |
| konfoo | i have the w850i and the n800 and i am happy right now | 04:21 |
| wasabi_ | I'm fine with my Moto | 04:21 |
| Texrat | :p | 04:21 |
| konfoo | sd to cf adapter for the dslr camera | 04:21 |
| konfoo | done and done | 04:21 |
| wasabi_ | i have a 815E | 04:21 |
| wasabi_ | the model before the razr. It's big, bulky, and sturdy. ;0 | 04:21 |
| wasabi_ | And has all the same features | 04:21 |
| Texrat | There's an LG facility near where I now work... maybe I'll try them | 04:21 |
| Milhouse | Textrat - I started out with Nokia (the Matrix bannana phone job - 8100?), followed by another couple of Nokias then switched to SE for two phones and have vowed to come back to Nokia, probably with the N95. I've learned my lesson. Hate Moto too - nasty menus. | 04:21 |
| konfoo | the only thing with the 850 is the stupid sony memory stick slot. and now they have this micro. wtbh thanks for rendering my cards useless, suckers | 04:22 |
| Texrat | Moto UI is too complex for me | 04:22 |
| Texrat | oh yeah, I hate the micro cards | 04:22 |
| Texrat | I like chatting at this time of night; not likely to get busted by the Finns :p | 04:23 |
| konfoo | haha | 04:23 |
| konfoo | do they keep you locals in line | 04:23 |
| Milhouse | Let's hope they don't check the logs on Google! :) | 04:23 |
| konfoo | cracking the whip | 04:23 |
| Texrat | yes Konfoo they do | 04:24 |
| konfoo | haha | 04:24 |
| Texrat | tough people, but sincere | 04:24 |
| konfoo | it was like that at nds, which was why i left | 04:24 |
| konfoo | oh sincere.. well thats ok | 04:24 |
| konfoo | tough and insincere i cant deal with | 04:24 |
| Texrat | they work hard and vacation hard too | 04:24 |
| Texrat | o I can | 04:24 |
| Texrat | oh wait-- gotcha | 04:24 |
| konfoo | :) | 04:24 |
| Milhouse | Texrat - so do you say know-kia or no-kia? :) | 04:24 |
| Texrat | NOK-ia | 04:25 |
| Milhouse | ah yes, that's what I meant for the second one! :) same as us in the UK then? | 04:25 |
| Texrat | It's not like "I don't have a Kia" | 04:25 |
| Milhouse | ahhh, different to us in the UK... | 04:26 |
| Milhouse | i really shouldn't start phonetic discussions at this time of night! | 04:26 |
| Texrat | well, you limeys need to learn how to talk English :p | 04:26 |
| Milhouse | cheek! | 04:26 |
| Texrat | sry | 04:26 |
| Milhouse | :) | 04:26 |
| Texrat | thought you'd say "piss off, mate" | 04:27 |
| Milhouse | i was thinking of something a little stronger... but thought better of it :) | 04:27 |
| Texrat | one of my buds at work is British, so I hear it all | 04:27 |
| Texrat | we are like the United nations there | 04:28 |
| konfoo | damn pommies | 04:29 |
| konfoo | taking over the world | 04:29 |
| konfoo | :) | 04:29 |
| Texrat | lol | 04:29 |
| Texrat | I just recently learned that word | 04:30 |
| Milhouse | Just another derogatory term - there's soo many!! | 04:30 |
| Texrat | yeah, we get our share too | 04:31 |
| Milhouse | While we would call you a septic | 04:31 |
| Texrat | just living in or being from Texas these days is bad enough | 04:31 |
| konfoo | yankee doodle | 04:32 |
| Texrat | "ah: the state that gave us Bush. thanks" | 04:32 |
| konfoo | this reminds me of this tshirt i saw in amsterdam in a storefront... it read 'yanks, no thanks'. and that was .. 1996 i think | 04:33 |
| konfoo | it was strange yet disturbing :) | 04:33 |
| Texrat | *sigh* thanks to our leaders of the last several years, i relaize we have a bad image | 04:34 |
| Texrat | I'd just as soon fire them all and start from scratch | 04:34 |
| konfoo | nod | 04:34 |
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| Milhouse | i'd like to do that with ours - being trying my best at the last two elections but they keep getting bloody well voted back in. bastids. | 04:35 |
| Milhouse | s/being/been/ | 04:35 |
| konfoo | hahaha | 04:35 |
| Texrat | same here | 04:35 |
| konfoo | bastids.. i have not heard that one in a long time | 04:35 |
| Texrat | rigged elections | 04:35 |
| Milhouse | apathy is the problem here - low turnout, win by default. | 04:36 |
| Texrat | electronic voting will be our demise | 04:36 |
| Milhouse | well, not quite but near enough | 04:36 |
| Texrat | it's already started here | 04:36 |
| Texrat | fraud, errors, etc | 04:36 |
| Milhouse | has anyone tried voting by the internet yet? can't be far off! | 04:36 |
| Texrat | zero paper trail in some places | 04:36 |
| Texrat | *shudders* | 04:36 |
| Texrat | I used paper last time and intend to as long as I can | 04:37 |
| Milhouse | i'm sure someone will suggest internet voting eventually! | 04:37 |
| Texrat | already have. scares me | 04:37 |
| Texrat | *imagines hacked voting engines* | 04:37 |
| Milhouse | probably the british government, we'll get EDS to write a system for $5Billion that never goes live. | 04:37 |
| Texrat | lol | 04:37 |
| Milhouse | yeah, the Google spider makes available everyones voting preferences available for searching by mistake. I can see it now... | 04:38 |
| Texrat | oo, like the hidden pages that were recently exposed | 04:38 |
| Milhouse | the firm i used to work for, it's a *very* large investment bank, uses an encryption algorithm to protect their websites. when the google code search system went live it turned up on their - #1 hit if you enter the banks name - PANIC!!! :) | 04:39 |
| Texrat | cripes | 04:40 |
| Milhouse | turned out an ex student had taken a copy and put it on his personal univeristy home page | 04:40 |
| Texrat | the damn spiders just go around the firewalls | 04:40 |
| Milhouse | ex student intern | 04:40 |
| shackan | how the hell did that code end up on google code search? | 04:40 |
| shackan | oh, that's baaad | 04:40 |
| Milhouse | yes, but also VERY FUNNY! | 04:41 |
| Zer0Her0 | wonder if they sued the hell out of the poor kid | 04:41 |
| Milhouse | Google took it down pronto, bless 'em | 04:41 |
| shackan | so the student published that code somewhere? | 04:41 |
| Texrat | that stuff costs companies billions | 04:41 |
| shackan | Zer0Her0, I bet they did | 04:41 |
| Milhouse | not sure what happened there - probably not. doubtful anyone could have bypassed security but it did spook the security risk guys | 04:41 |
| Zer0Her0 | i worked for an investment bank as well while at university i tried to forget everything i wrote while there for fear of all the legal documents i read and signed. | 04:42 |
| Milhouse | it was a buch of PERL modules - he'd just taken a copy and dropped it in his home directory, which got scanned and... the rest is history | 04:42 |
| shackan | ouch | 04:42 |
| Texrat | oh crap: my kids are too quiet | 04:43 |
| shackan | Texrat, good sign | 04:43 |
| Texrat | no no | 04:43 |
| Texrat | bad sign with these 2 | 04:43 |
| Texrat | quiet=collusion=trouble | 04:44 |
| shackan | lol | 04:44 |
| shackan | anyway, it sucks my credit card doesn't have an expiration date / security code on it, it seems it can be used at atm only | 04:44 |
| Texrat | wow, just reading and eating... what the heck | 04:45 |
| Milhouse | sounds more like a debit card | 04:45 |
| shackan | err, yeah, that's the name | 04:45 |
| Texrat | mine was like that until I used it a while, shackan | 04:45 |
| Texrat | then they expanded it | 04:45 |
| shackan | hehehe, yeah I'm going to 'upgrade' it too | 04:46 |
| Texrat | probably a probation period | 04:46 |
| Texrat | what bank? | 04:46 |
| shackan | the 'modded' one allows to create virtual cards with one-time temporary codes and a fixed amount | 04:47 |
| shackan | Texrat, .it here | 04:47 |
| shackan | which is neat, but I don't know how much they're going to charge for the service | 04:47 |
| shackan | activation is just 10€ for ten years | 04:47 |
| Texrat | well, I;m gonna bail guys... was nice chatting | 04:50 |
| Texrat | see you in ITT | 04:50 |
| shackan | bye Texrat, I wish you the best of luck | 04:50 |
| Texrat | thanks | 04:50 |
| Milhouse | bye texrat | 04:50 |
| Milhouse | hope to chat again soon | 04:51 |
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| gpd | I don't suppose scriptkiller hangs out on this channel? | 05:16 |
| gpd | http://scriptkiller.de/apt/ <-- how would you get past that to find the files manually? | 05:17 |
| gpd | http://scriptkiller.de/apt/dists/mistral/main/ <- must be in there somewhere | 05:18 |
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| Markov | is there someway to make the emu screen size larger for fceu? | 05:22 |
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| Markov | i mean. i really don't need those load save buttons | 05:23 |
| Markov | i'd much rather have a larger screen | 05:23 |
| gpd | isn't it restricted by the 4:3 ratio? | 05:25 |
| Markov | i don't think so | 05:29 |
| Markov | i mean no | 05:29 |
| Markov | you can maximize either veritcally or horizontally and still maintain whatever ratio you want | 05:29 |
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| Markov | uggg. suddenly `af-sb-init.sh start` isn't working... | 06:07 |
| Markov | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > sapwood-server[6177]: GLIB WARNING ** Gdk - cannot open display: (null) | 06:19 |
| Markov | that's bs... echo $DISPLAY :2 | 06:21 |
| tigert | did you export the var? | 06:30 |
| Markov | yessir | 06:30 |
| tigert | try -ac on xephyr? | 06:31 |
| tigert | is your xephyr :2? ;) | 06:31 |
| Markov | ewwww | 06:31 |
| tigert | do other apps work in the display (outside sbox?) | 06:32 |
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| Markov | it's fixed now | 06:33 |
| Markov | sorry | 06:33 |
| Markov | i restarted the whole thing | 06:34 |
| soleblaze | doh..apssword safe won't bring up the on screen keyboard so it's useless =/ unless you use a bt keyboard I guess | 06:34 |
| Markov | thanks! | 06:34 |
| soleblaze | that reminds me. what's the control panel addon that lets you start/stop services? | 06:36 |
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| kulve | soleblaze: if you mean init.d services: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/01/27/maemo-service-handler/ | 06:44 |
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| soleblaze | yup, that's the oen thanks.. | 06:45 |
| soleblaze | saw it this morning but didn't write it down. | 06:45 |
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| Markov | when I do: fakeroot dpkg -i fceu_0.98.12-6_armel.deb I get | 06:52 |
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| Markov | error creating directory `./home/user': Permission denied | 06:52 |
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| Markov | as in i'm running, [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/MyProjects] > fakeroot dpkg -i fceu_0.98.12-6_armel.deb | 06:54 |
| gpd | I get the same thing | 06:58 |
| gpd | however - it is installed fine on my N800 | 06:59 |
| kulve | no deb should mkdir /home/user .. | 07:00 |
| Markov | gpd: same for me | 07:01 |
| Markov | i tried setting --root=/ | 07:02 |
| gpd | maybe Tak knows | 07:02 |
| soleblaze | is there nethack for the n800? hmm | 07:03 |
| gpd | anyone know off the top of their head how to convert .bin to .iso? | 07:05 |
| gpd | [using only command-line tools on Linux] | 07:05 |
| soleblaze | bin2iso | 07:06 |
| soleblaze | google it..it's a single c file | 07:06 |
| gpd | sweet - thanks | 07:07 |
| gpd | is anyone willing to discuss google map cacheing strategies :D | 07:12 |
| Tak | eh? | 07:13 |
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| gpd | for example, if yuou were to run maemo-mapper on the scratchbox you would have a *large* disk on which to cache maps | 07:14 |
| gpd | downloading the right ones to the tablet later becomes more tricky | 07:15 |
| cesman | gpd: it is very easy | 07:15 |
| cesman | manage maps | 07:15 |
| gpd | cesman: yes - but space is the limiting factor | 07:15 |
| cesman | only if you use all the zoms | 07:16 |
| gpd | mmm... more zooms :) | 07:16 |
| cesman | :) | 07:16 |
| gpd | my plan is to rsync off the Cache directory for a particular City -- then delete all and start again for a new city | 07:17 |
| gpd | then label the Cache directories by the city | 07:17 |
| gpd | since i only need a few places it should be fairly easy | 07:17 |
| cesman | do you do a lot of driving? | 07:17 |
| gpd | no - but i will be travelling around India for a month next month | 07:17 |
| gpd | and there are no detailed maps by Garmin afaik | 07:18 |
| gpd | this would be pretty handy | 07:18 |
| gpd | except of course that i am clearly insane if i think i am going to bring my n800! | 07:18 |
| * gpd continues to live the dream | 07:18 | |
| cesman | no not take it? | 07:18 |
| Tak | oh - fceu puts a file in /home/user/.fceultra as a hack because it doesn't (currently) have a global config file | 07:18 |
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| gpd | Markov: ^^ | 07:21 |
| Markov | Tak, why does it try to write to the current directory? | 07:21 |
| Markov | Tak, error creating directory `./home/user': Permission denied | 07:22 |
| Tak | it doesn't; it tries to write to /home/user/.fceultra | 07:22 |
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| Markov | so, then what is the meaning of that message? | 07:24 |
| Markov | is that something dpkg is doing? | 07:24 |
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| Markov | also, shouldn't fakeroot be able to do whatever it wants? | 07:26 |
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| vol | hm, im running debian, and specified -d but the scratchbox install script didnt use debs | 07:27 |
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| Tak | apparently not | 07:31 |
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| Tak | Markov: you can use dpkg --contents to see what it's extracting | 07:42 |
| Markov | Tak: heh, for some reason it's putting everyhting in ./ | 07:47 |
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| Markov | maybe there is something wrong with how the package was built? | 07:51 |
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| Tak | the package is fine | 07:55 |
| Tak | the issue is scratchbox | 07:55 |
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| Markov | isee | 08:02 |
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| Markov | any idea what's wrong with it? | 08:04 |
| Markov | apparently it's appending '.' onto $prefix | 08:05 |
| Markov | or something... | 08:05 |
| Markov | prepending* | 08:05 |
| Tak | dpkg --contents does that | 08:06 |
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| Markov | oh... | 08:07 |
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| Markov | are you able to compile in sratchbox? | 08:07 |
| Tak | you could ln -s /home/whateveryourscratchboxusernameis /home/user in scratchbox | 08:07 |
| Tak | yeah, I built it in scratchbox | 08:07 |
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| Markov | neat | 08:08 |
| Markov | i was going to try to see if i could increase the size of the 'screen' | 08:09 |
| Tak | increase? | 08:09 |
| Tak | doesn't it fill the display on your device? | 08:09 |
| Markov | no. it's small | 08:09 |
| Tak | what version do you have, and how are you launching it? | 08:10 |
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| Markov | i have 0.98.12-6 | 08:11 |
| Tak | ok | 08:11 |
| Markov | and i launch it via maeme | 08:11 |
| Tak | you have a 770, or an n800? | 08:11 |
| Markov | n800 | 08:11 |
| Tak | try one of the -bora packages | 08:12 |
| Markov | for which one? maeme or fceu? | 08:12 |
| Tak | the 770 packages rely on the pixel doubling hack | 08:12 |
| Tak | for fceu | 08:12 |
| Tak | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free/f/fceu/fceu_0.98.12-bora2_armel.deb | 08:12 |
| Tak | or add the bora extras repo to the app manager | 08:13 |
| Markov | i found it thanks! | 08:15 |
| Markov | it's working too | 08:15 |
| Markov | heheheh | 08:15 |
| Markov | the music is really loud and low fi | 08:15 |
| Markov | heheheh | 08:15 |
| Markov | thanks! | 08:15 |
| Markov | can i turn this down? | 08:15 |
| imawinar | is that a stream? | 08:16 |
| imawinar | use the volume ... upper right | 08:16 |
| Tak | not from within fceu yet | 08:16 |
| Tak | quit and turn down the system volume | 08:16 |
| Tak | I'm going to map the zoom in/out buttons for volume control like canola does at some point | 08:17 |
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| imawinar | nice... what's new besides UI | 08:19 |
| imawinar | he said he had sound working? | 08:19 |
| imawinar | did you find anything that could be optimized or left-out? :) | 08:19 |
| Tak | the sound code needs some major optimization | 08:19 |
| imawinar | how do you know? mailing list? | 08:20 |
| Markov | the gain needs to be turned down on sound | 08:20 |
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| Tak | no, I've looked at it | 08:23 |
| Tak | afaik it's not doing any gain | 08:23 |
| Markov | oh. it sounds like it's up, but maybe i have a crappy rom | 08:24 |
| gpd | crap - these India maps are awesome - I *really* am going to have to take my N800 on a Tour of India! | 08:24 |
| Markov | you could always do signal/1.5 or something | 08:24 |
| gpd | Maybe I should campaign for sponsorship from Nokia - 'The N800 - the backpackers laptop' | 08:25 |
| Markov | gpd: you'd better sleep with it and a switch blade ;) | 08:25 |
| gpd | Markov: zactly... :( | 08:25 |
| gpd | i suppose it is nice and flat to go under the pillow | 08:25 |
| Tak | Markov: does it sound a little choppy? | 08:26 |
| Markov | Tak: yes | 08:26 |
| Tak | it might just be lag | 08:27 |
| Markov | Tak: it could just be me, but it seems like if i turn off the sound the video is not as slow | 08:28 |
| imawinar | Markov, have you heard choppiness in the sound when you hear the startup greeting sound on the 770" | 08:28 |
| Tak | yeah, when you turn off the sound, it disables that code entirely | 08:28 |
| Tak | if the video is slower than it should be, you can bump up the frame skipping | 08:29 |
| Markov | let me try that | 08:29 |
| gpd | any updates on the USB-HOST mode in the last week? | 08:29 |
| Markov | what's a reasonable number of frames to skip ? | 08:29 |
| Tak | on n800, I have no idea | 08:30 |
| Tak | I use 2 on 770 w/sound | 08:30 |
| Tak | gpd: not afaik | 08:30 |
| axique | A question about automake and writing home applets...my applet compiles but on runtime I get undefined symbols to the gpe-palmtop libraries (eg. tododb), where do I have to add these dependencies in the automake files? | 08:32 |
| Tak | is it an issue of different versions on the device and in scratchbox? | 08:34 |
| Markov | Tak: Double Dragon II looks okay on n800 w/o sound and skipping 4 frames | 08:34 |
| Markov | maybe i like it abnormally fast | 08:34 |
| Tak | well - I don't have an n800 yet for testing | 08:35 |
| Tak | I think it hurts that there's no xsp hack | 08:35 |
| imawinar | yes.. | 08:35 |
| Markov | xsp? | 08:35 |
| imawinar | accelerated 2x scaling | 08:36 |
| * Tak nods | 08:36 | |
| Tak | supposedly I can do a similar thing with xv on the 800 | 08:36 |
| Tak | although I suspect it's going to be a bit more work | 08:39 |
| imawinar | i have to figure out how to trick my switch into forwarding all packets to my network monitor | 08:40 |
| imawinar | promiscuous mode doesnt help at all when your switch is forwarding packets :/ | 08:40 |
| Tak | is it possible to seek the video in canola? | 08:45 |
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| gpd | so if I am in an internet cafe that has no WiFi... wtf | 08:51 |
| gpd | could I create a teeny weeny stompbox-esque thingy? | 08:52 |
| gpd | or am i forgetting that USB will provide intarweb... :? | 08:52 |
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| gpd | http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/01/seagate_offers_.html <--add 10-20GB of wireless storage to cellphones, or other WiFi- and BlueTooth-equipped devices | 09:02 |
| gpd | the (DAVE) device :D | 09:03 |
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| keesj | Hi! | 09:22 |
| gpd | hi keesj | 09:22 |
| keesj | axique: do you compile with -Wall or similar flags? | 09:23 |
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| keesj | axique: does your application work in the sdk? | 09:24 |
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| keesj | I am trying to understand the ssvb's 16bpp alpha blending routine. He writes it down as if it was simple an clear what happens! | 09:27 |
| * keesj is not bitwise enough | 09:27 | |
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| axique_ | but now i have a design issue, how do i get the blue border (in std theming) arount my home apllet? does anybody now? | 09:32 |
| keesj | axique: I know there is an exmaple somewhere , look as the application catalogue wiki and search for home applets. the source of the nokia applets is not open :( | 09:35 |
| tigert | check the gtkrc, maybe there are some widget name to set? | 09:35 |
| axique_ | thanks for the hints, but as far as i see in the hello-world example on maemo there is the same 'problem', looking for the gtkrc issue | 09:36 |
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| tigert | if you stay around, i will ask for you | 09:37 |
| tigert | just got to work, but the hax0rz who know probably dont come n this early :) | 09:38 |
| axique_ | the next twenty minutes or so i'm still here | 09:38 |
| tigert | send a mail to tigert at gmail and i can ask | 09:38 |
| axique_ | i will stay online and have a look later, so just write, thanks in advance | 09:38 |
| tigert | we can then put the answer to the wiki | 09:38 |
| tigert | if its not there already | 09:39 |
| axique_ | thegtkrc tip is correct | 09:39 |
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| axique_ | search for this on maemo, and yes there is a comment...about it...i think i'll get it...hanks again | 09:40 |
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| tigert | ok. i thought the stuf might have some widget matches there | 09:40 |
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| tigert | cool | 09:40 |
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| axique_ | i thin i was a littlebit overhasty: there is a comment, but the do not use it in the example app nor in the other applets i found in the web...hmm have to look later about this | 09:45 |
| tigert | hmm. i will ask tommi once he gets to wor | 09:46 |
| tigert | k | 09:46 |
| tigert | mail me so i can pass the info? | 09:46 |
| keesj | axique_: I am also interested in the answer , can't you mail the developer mailing list? | 09:47 |
| axique_ | ok, i will ask on maemo-developers@maemo.org | 09:48 |
| tigert | yea, actually that is the best idea | 09:48 |
| axique_ | is this the right list? | 09:48 |
| tigert | so it gets archived and google indexed too | 09:48 |
| trickie | hello all | 09:50 |
| trickie | a quick question... | 09:50 |
| trickie | if i want python2.5 in the sdk, should i just add the extras repos to my sources.list? | 09:51 |
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| axique_ | sent | 09:53 |
| axique_ | trickie, so did i | 09:53 |
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| tigert | goody | 09:59 |
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| trickie | anyone using python2.5 in the sdk? | 10:10 |
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| zbenjamin | hello @ all | 10:10 |
| c0ffee | trickie, yes | 10:11 |
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| maddler | morning all... | 10:22 |
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| maddler | did anyone else noticed high CPU usage after establishing Wlan connection and dhcp? | 10:23 |
| maddler | here looks like udhcp enters an almost-endless loop... | 10:23 |
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| maddler | calling udhcpc.script again and again... | 10:25 |
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| keesj | I an trying to optimize xmoto. the non alpha polygon filling function is the most time consuming so I would like to improve the performace. Can somebody help me understand why some calls are slower then others? http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/why.png (this is on x86) | 10:27 |
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| keesj | does the speed of aritmetic fuctions like + depends on the value? | 10:29 |
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| dwd | keesj: No, it depends on the type. | 10:33 |
| keesj | those are ints | 10:34 |
| dwd | keesj: Or rather, it depends on the post-load type - loading in two chars out of memory can take a different amount of time to loading in two ints. | 10:34 |
| keesj | and pn and pnT are shorts | 10:34 |
| dwd | keesj: Signed/unsigned could potentially make a difference, I suppose. Although with 2's complement, I doubt it does in practise. | 10:35 |
| keesj | are there good books about such things? | 10:35 |
| dwd | keesj: What program's that screenshot from, BTW? | 10:36 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:36 |
| keesj | dwd it is from kcachegrind (a very fine program) | 10:37 |
| dwd | keesj: The highlighted line involves three registers, a load, and a shift. The line before looks the same, but pLeft will be preloaded, and it might have to free up a register to do the shift, possibly. | 10:39 |
| mukund | keesj: try computer architecture by hennessy and patterson, and also the cpu manuals for your CPU | 10:40 |
| mukund | intel ships free printed manuals for their CPUs | 10:40 |
| * koen_ wonders where nokia gets its lawyers | 10:40 | |
| koen_ | I always thought binary only kernel-modules where illegal | 10:41 |
| dwd | keesj: That *pn = pnT[k]; is indirect load and store. I think that tends to be quite cache-heavy. | 10:41 |
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| keesj | mukund this one? http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN1558605967&id=R7Frpn3g9AEC&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&ots=f0iV95VANU&dq=computer+architecture+by+hennessy+and+patterson&sig=cSgtKXQkQt6i7MO68o_tajAH4BE#PPP1,M1 | 10:41 |
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| suihkulokki | koen_: the same place all lawyers are spawned from.. | 10:42 |
| dwd | koen_: No, there was a long debate on this. You end up with a tainted kernel, but Linus et al accepted binary only modules. | 10:42 |
| mukund | speed may depend on the value when booth's multiplication algorithm is used for the * operation on ints | 10:42 |
| koen_ | dwd: linus is full of shit on that part | 10:43 |
| koen_ | that's why linus in an engineer, and not a lawyer | 10:43 |
| keesj | dwd: thanks for the tip. So I will need to try to profile on the n800 then, I hope the new scratchbox will support that. | 10:44 |
| dwd | keesj: Oh, I should point out I'm far from a CPU/ASM expert, so if you get different advice from other people, mine's probably wrong. | 10:44 |
| keesj | :) I hope I can trick ssvb :p. dwd your info is still very interesting stuff for me | 10:45 |
| dwd | koen_: I'm somewhat ambivalent on it, TBH. I don't *like* binary-only modules, but I don't care at all if I get can most functionality without them. (For example, I use a Radeon GFX card, with the open driver, not the ATI closed one) | 10:46 |
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| mukund_ | keesj: i got disconnected, so i don't know if you got these messages: | 10:47 |
| mukund_ | keesj: try computer architecture by hennessy and patterson, and also the cpu manuals for your CPU | 10:47 |
| mukund_ | intel ships free printed manuals for their CPUs | 10:47 |
| koen_ | dwd: I personally don't have problems with binary blobs loaded with a FOSS module | 10:47 |
| mukund_ | speed may depend on the value when booth's multiplication algorithm is used for the * operation on ints | 10:47 |
| keesj | gpd great work on mud! | 10:47 |
| mukund_ | keesj: opensparc uses booth's algorithm for multiplication (from their gpl'd sources).. i don't know about other cpus | 10:47 |
| koen_ | dwd: but nokia keeping even that loader secret is a bit too much for me | 10:48 |
| dwd | keesj: You might find you can make stuff a bit faster there if you can maintain n?Sum in a post-shifted state. So probably applying n?Slope shifted or something. | 10:48 |
| * koen_ gets back to figuring out how to replace courier with dovecot | 10:48 | |
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| keesj | dwd: I think it is shifted every time to prevent loss of information | 10:50 |
| keesj | perhaps I can try to make 2 arrays and first cal the nU and nV array? | 10:51 |
| keesj | I would then be making 3 iterations | 10:52 |
| dwd | Yeah, I doubt that'd help. You'd be using more cache. | 10:52 |
| dwd | And yes, you'd lose information if you pre-shifted n?Slope, you're right. | 10:54 |
| keesj | perhaps I will be faster on the n800 if i just perform this using floating point | 11:00 |
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| keesj | off to the bookstore | 11:07 |
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| dazgard | hi there :) | 11:08 |
| dazgard | i would liek to buy a media player, specially an mp3 player. | 11:08 |
| dazgard | i was considering an ipod | 11:09 |
| maddler | dazgard: ??? | 11:09 |
| keesj | who was working on instant lock ? | 11:09 |
| maddler | dazgard: what's ipod? | 11:10 |
| maddler | oh... you mean the fruity toy? | 11:10 |
| dazgard | is it possible to use the n800 like a easy to use audio player ? | 11:10 |
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| dazgard | maddler:lol | 11:11 |
| bedboi | hi there | 11:11 |
| maddler | heya bedboi... | 11:11 |
| dazgard | hi bedboi | 11:11 |
| dazgard | no one have ideas ? | 11:12 |
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| dazgard | the N8000 as a audio player ? | 11:13 |
| dazgard | good or bad idea ? | 11:13 |
| dazgard | N800 :) | 11:13 |
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| dazgard | or perhaps am on the wrong channel | 11:13 |
| Veggen | dazgard: you'll have to decide for yourself. | 11:15 |
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| Veggen | The media player isn't all that bad. | 11:15 |
| lardman | Am I going mad, or does the Bora toolchain not include FORTRAN? (going mad because the old one used to work, and they're supposed to be the same I thought) | 11:15 |
| dazgard | Veggen: i just wanted to know if it is easy to use it as a portable audio player | 11:16 |
| maddler | N800 is The device... | 11:16 |
| Jaffa | lardman: mistral/scirocco include *Fortran*? | 11:16 |
| maddler | Veggen: and canola is on its way... | 11:17 |
| dazgard | i used to use my old PSP as a media player and it was not that cool :) | 11:17 |
| lardman | Jaffa: Yes, I think so. I was able to compile Octave at least | 11:17 |
| maddler | PSP? Poor Supplied Player? | 11:17 |
| Veggen | dazgard: for coolness? Go for the ipod. For flexibility and extendability, go for the N800. | 11:17 |
| maddler | dazgard: go serious... N800! | 11:18 |
| dazgard | ok, thanks guys :) | 11:18 |
| lardman | Jaffa: But looking through my old scratchbox directory, I can't find any of the gcc fortran binaries - hence my wondering about sanity ;) | 11:18 |
| dazgard | i think i'll go for the N800 :D | 11:18 |
| maddler | dazgard: great! :) | 11:19 |
| Veggen | I don't think I'd buy it if an mp3 player is all I wanted. | 11:19 |
| Veggen | but if you want/need it for something else, it does make sense to also use it as your mp3 player. | 11:19 |
| dwd | Ooooh. My N800 is now scheduled to arrive today, according to UPS. | 11:20 |
| maddler | dwd: great! :D | 11:20 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: cool | 11:25 |
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| lardman | That's odd, in 2.1, which gcc points to /usr/bin/gcc, while in 3.0 it points to /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc | 11:30 |
| lardman | and in 2.1 there's a /usr/bin/g77 | 11:30 |
| lardman | Ah-ha, so the toolchain versions (of GCC) are the same, but they're not the same release of the toolchain - my mistake reading the blurb | 11:37 |
| maddler | gpd: it was you who ported mtr? | 11:45 |
| Jaffa | keesj: packages uploading to scirocco extras queue | 11:47 |
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| konttori | Have you guys seen this geekbrief episode on N800? http://www.podshow.com/shows/?mode=detail&episode_id=47155 | 12:05 |
| X-Fade | Hmm Nokia NGage 2: http://img.engadget.com/common/images/6448013811277656.JPG?0.9242260649013111 | 12:07 |
| dwd | Ooooh - UPS van outside! | 12:07 |
| jcml_ | dwd: don't forget to check the camera ... :| | 12:08 |
| JussiP | How can you tell which 2 gig SD cards work with N800 and which don't? The product info pages are not helpful. | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | JussiP: They all work. Some with a patched kernel though. | 12:13 |
| JussiP | Well without patching then? | 12:13 |
| X-Fade | SDHC needs a patch.. | 12:14 |
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| [AD]Turbo | hi all | 12:33 |
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| dwd | jcml_: My camera appears to be working. What would be the symptoms of it being wrong? | 12:54 |
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| nomis | dwd: not consistently flipping the image when turning it around. | 12:57 |
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| dwd | nomis: That bit seems to work. | 12:57 |
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| [mbm] | http://www.amazon.com/OEM-Turbo-Speed-Secure-Digital/dp/B000FNEIM8 .. dirt cheap 4g sd card .. wonder if it'll work | 13:01 |
| Milhouse | 2GB cards work fine in the N800 - no patch required | 13:02 |
| Milhouse | 4GB SD cards should work - SanDisk and Transcend seem OK so far, pot luck with no-name cards | 13:02 |
| Milhouse | no patch required either | 13:02 |
| [mbm] | yeah I have a 2G card in already, looking to do two 4G cards | 13:02 |
| Milhouse | SDHC cards of any size require the patched kernel | 13:02 |
| [mbm] | right, the above looks to be a cheap non sdhc card | 13:03 |
| Milhouse | where are you? | 13:03 |
| Milhouse | US? | 13:03 |
| [mbm] | in .ca; I could just walk over to frys and get a transcend card | 13:03 |
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| [mbm] | hmm might do that .. comments on the amazon page talk about how they misspelled the 'digital' on the SD logo | 13:04 |
| thomasvs | anyone here had success updating their kernel to accept SDHC cards though ? | 13:06 |
| [mbm] | haven't tried but from what I've seen of flasher it's pretty trivial (assuming you're competent enough to compile a kernel) | 13:07 |
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| Milhouse | thomasvs - yes, working fine here with SanDisk 4GB SDHC | 13:10 |
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| dwd | What's SDHC? | 13:17 |
| dwd | Ah, never mind. | 13:17 |
| tolgam | :) | 13:18 |
| dwd | Secure DIgital High Capacity, not fully sdrawkcab compatible. | 13:18 |
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| Milhouse | Reasonably competitive SDHC prices here, particularly for Europe buyers: http://www.memory-configurator.com/products/description/8Gb_Transcend_High_Capacity-SDHC-Secure_Digital_Card_Class_2/index.html | 13:22 |
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| maddler | Milhouse: SD are even cheaper here... | 13:39 |
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| Milhouse | SD is so like... last year :) | 13:43 |
| Milhouse | I've just ordered a couple of the Transcend 8GB SDHC | 13:43 |
| Milhouse | 16GB of goodness coming my way... | 13:43 |
| Milhouse | Actually make that 24GB as I ordered a couple of Transcend 4GB SDHC cards as well for a second N800 | 13:44 |
| Milhouse | 1000 bugs on Bugzilla :) | 13:44 |
| sp3000 | party! | 13:45 |
| dwd | Milhouse: That "dave" device from Seagate looks like it'd be fun, too. | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | I wonder if N800 also supports class 6 cards. | 13:49 |
| dwd | X-Fade: I wondered that too. 8G of class 6 sounds better than 16G of class 2. | 13:50 |
| Milhouse | Haven't read much on it, but it looks similar to the Agere BlueOnyx | 13:50 |
| Milhouse | dwd - I'd expect it to with the SDHC, whether you'd see any benefit from the faster write speed is debatable unless high-speed mode is enabled | 13:50 |
| Milhouse | once it's filled with media the N800 won't be doing much writing | 13:51 |
| X-Fade | dwd: Indeed. Hmm and those transcend cards have very low inser/removal cycles.. Only 10.000. | 13:51 |
| Milhouse | should be enough for me! :) | 13:51 |
| dwd | Milhouse: The difference is that the BlueOnyx is flash, and much smaller. The dave - aside from having an amusing name - is hard drive based, IIRC. | 13:51 |
| Milhouse | so is the blueonyx | 13:52 |
| Milhouse | i think | 13:52 |
| Milhouse | the blueonyx will come in flash and hard drive varieties | 13:52 |
| Milhouse | 1GB to 40GB | 13:52 |
| Milhouse | with 16GB SDHC rumoured from Panasonic by the end of the year, it could very well be obsolete | 13:53 |
| X-Fade | Hmmm 63 euros incl. vat. Not bad.. | 13:54 |
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| |tbb| | xfade what do you speaking for_ | 14:02 |
| X-Fade | 8GB sdhc card.. | 14:03 |
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| tigert | does it work? | 14:06 |
| tigert | was sdhc the one that did? | 14:06 |
| tigert | or not? | 14:06 |
| keesj | computer architecture by hennessy and patterson looked good. I don't have the budget this month :( | 14:06 |
| Milhouse | 8GB SDHC cards have been reported working (on ITT) | 14:06 |
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| X-Fade | tigert: With a patched kernel, they do. But in the next version of the vanilla kernel it will be included. | 14:10 |
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| keesj | ssvb: I liked your the 16 bpp alpha mail. It took me a while to understand what you where doing | 14:16 |
| tigert | X-Fade: okay | 14:18 |
| tigert | good to know | 14:18 |
| * tigert updates his knowledge :) | 14:18 | |
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| X-Fade | tigert: But I'm sure Nokia will not say if they are going to include support for that ;) | 14:21 |
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| tigert | :) | 14:21 |
| tigert | I dont think that is a huge trade secret if the hardware is there already? | 14:21 |
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| neostrider | hello fellows | 14:22 |
| tigert | but I dont know at all what the kernel folks are doing | 14:22 |
| tigert | I used to follow the ppc kernel and benh pretty actively on irc when I ran debian on my black powerbook years ago | 14:22 |
| tigert | he rocked | 14:22 |
| tigert | it helped to get his packages to get a new piece of hardware working every week | 14:23 |
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| |tbb| | X-Fade: i was looking at the url and it says 83 euro to me ;/ | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | |tbb|: excluding vat even :) But I was looking at local shops in .nl | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | tigert: If nokia updates the kernel, they will get support for free. But as far as I know, the 770 never had a newer version.. | 14:28 |
| X-Fade | So that policy is not that clear.. | 14:28 |
| |tbb| | how can i add the os7 theme to my scratchbox gui | 14:29 |
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| |tbb| | i mean that gui which will be visible after starting af-sb-init.sh | 14:31 |
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| |tbb| | sorry X-Fade it is also ex.Vat | 14:44 |
| tigert | I dont think that is available, but get my theme :) | 14:47 |
| tigert | I think the devel rootstraps still have the purple one? | 14:47 |
| |tbb| | deb srx | 14:48 |
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| |tbb| | src | 14:48 |
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| keesj | was sdl_mixer sound supposed to work? | 14:51 |
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| Jaffa | Is the N800 car mount available separately? Can't see it on Nokia.co.uk | 15:03 |
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| |tbb| | is a navkit for n800 allready available ??? | 15:06 |
| nomis | how can I detect a theme change in maemo? | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | |tbb|: I dunno, but I'm tempted by a cheap BT GPS | 15:07 |
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| nomis | (from within a running application) | 15:07 |
| |tbb| | which one? | 15:08 |
| nomis | Jaffa: if you're interested in the navigation software it might make sense to wait for the bundle. The Nokia GPS receiver is nice, and the software without GPS is not that much cheaper. | 15:08 |
| |tbb| | and what should i do? got a navkit allready bougth for the n770 | 15:09 |
| Jaffa | |tbb|: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110086103666 | 15:09 |
| Jaffa | nomis: I think I can just about persuade Mrs Jaffa that Maemo Mapper and a cheap BT GPS will be fine - we like the adventure of getting lost on holiday ;-) | 15:10 |
| nomis | Jaffa: :) | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | Although Google Maps is a bit crap in the UK/France as it doesn't show motorway/autoroute junction numbers. | 15:10 |
| jaebird | wow | 15:10 |
| part | could someone with a maemo 2.0 or 2.1 installation handy verify one thing for me? | 15:14 |
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| part | is everyone already on 3.0? | 15:18 |
| dwd | part: No, I have both. | 15:18 |
| kkito | ssvb, are you here? :P | 15:18 |
| tzz | Jaffa: does MUD build debian/rules for you? | 15:18 |
| part | dwd: which scratchbox version do you use for maemo 2.x? | 15:18 |
| ssvb | kkito: yes, but I'm at work now, so a bit busy | 15:18 |
| |tbb| | sapwood-server[16914]: GLIB ERROR ** default - bind(/var/tmp/sapwood-:2.0): Address already in use | 15:19 |
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| |tbb| | what can i do to get af-sb-init.sh start to work | 15:20 |
| Jaffa | tzz: yes - but then you can further patch it if necessary | 15:20 |
| kkito | ssvb, ah ok. I want to ask some questions about your video scaler optimitzations in the mplayer port. | 15:20 |
| dwd | part: The old one. Not the same one as for 3.0 | 15:21 |
| jcml_ | dwd: The camera symptoms are "when you turn in 180 degrees from its starting position, the scene you see is upside down". ala http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4351 | 15:23 |
| dwd | part: Actually, I've not even installed the new one yet. | 15:23 |
| dwd | jcml_: Ah, no, that works for me. If I turn it upside down, it flips. | 15:23 |
| ssvb | kkito: I can probably answer your questions if they will not require detailed explanations | 15:23 |
| jcml_ | dwd: mine flips - twice. That's the problem ... | 15:24 |
| dwd | jcml_: Oh. Exciting. | 15:24 |
| jcml_ | :) | 15:24 |
| kkito | ssvb, only to know if that optimitzations can be useful to scale the video on a sdl app | 15:24 |
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| jcml_ | dwd: so there are definately N800s out there that, if you prop it up on its stand and set the camera to view the scene that you're looking at (while you also view the screen), will display what /you/ see with the correct orientation? | 15:25 |
| ssvb | kkito: sdl uses rgb color format on nokia 770 as far as i know, so it may be tricky | 15:25 |
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| |tbb| | for an unknown reason i cant start the gui of scratchbox anymore, any help? | 15:26 |
| dwd | jcml_: Yep. | 15:26 |
| jcml_ | dwd: Cool. That's what I needed to know for sure before RMAing mine :( | 15:27 |
| ssvb | kkito: accessing framebuffer directly you can get yuv colorpace support and scaling using code taken from mplayer | 15:27 |
| kkito | ssvb, do you think that implement this to the sdl will be difficult? | 15:28 |
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| |tbb| | :/ | 15:29 |
| ssvb | kkito: can you explain why you need it? do you want to add video support to sdl application? | 15:29 |
| tzz | Jaffa: doesn't work for emacs pretest. I can send you the error. It may be because the directory is emacs-22.0.93-1 but the packages is called emacspretest. Do you do matching on that? | 15:29 |
| tzz | Jaffa: Just trying to clear your intent up before I go source-diving... | 15:30 |
| kkito | ssvb, i am porting some videogame consoles emulator to maemo, but all of them loses a lot of performance when the image are scaled to a bigger resolution | 15:31 |
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| kkito | anyways the scaling can be done before drawing with sdl | 15:32 |
| ssvb | kkito: so what you need is a fast scaler for 16bpp rgb images (not really video), right? | 15:32 |
| kkito | ssvb, yes | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | tzz: it should produce a debian/rules, even if it's not right. It also tries to ensure the build directory meets debian's requirements, e.g. <package>-<version> so that *could* be causing problems. | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | nomis: disco applet sounds useful. | 15:33 |
| part | dwd: right, can you check if the menus in 2.x work for you? as in, you can see the second level menus and start applications (like maemopad)? | 15:33 |
| ssvb | kkito: if you don't care about quality and do not need smooth pixels color interpolation, getting this scaler done should be relatively easy | 15:33 |
| dwd | part: In scratchbox? Yes. | 15:33 |
| ssvb | kkito: that would be nearest neighbour or point scaling algorithm | 15:34 |
| dwd | Weird. My N800 just spontaneously rebooted. | 15:34 |
| ssvb | kkito: does sdl have functions for image scaling? | 15:34 |
| Jaffa | dwd: see http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ReportingRebootIssues - I've got a bug open (#9xx) about dsp_dld spontaneously rebooting mine for no reason. | 15:35 |
| ssvb | kkito: if it does, optimizations can be done directly in sdl and every application will benefit from them :) | 15:36 |
| kkito | ssvb, i dont know :/ | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I think Maemo Mapper's source could *really* do with a refactor: it's a *single* .c file for the whole app. | 15:36 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Bet the inliner loves that. :-) | 15:36 |
| kkito | ssvb, well i am going to take a look at the sdl source... thank you :) | 15:37 |
| jcml_ | Anyone: I've got an N800 with a dodgy camera (the "upside down" issue"). Nokia direct sales are pointing me towards a service centre, instead of getting it picked up and returned to Nokia. Is this a good idea, given that they may well not have seen one before? | 15:37 |
| jcml_ | (at the service centre) | 15:38 |
| ssvb | kkito: you can try to identify the code responsible for scaling in this emulator, we'll see what can be done | 15:38 |
| ssvb | kkito: you are welcome | 15:38 |
| jtra | dwd: spontaneous reboots worry me too (on my 770), I have also seen corruption of 8 bytes in file while copying it back and forth on 770 and to main computer (over ssh connection over wifi) | 15:38 |
| |tbb| | could someone help me please? http://pastebin.ca/334251 | 15:39 |
| Veggen | jcml: I delivered my old N770 to a service center. In november or so. It did indeed take some time, but it did come back, fixed. | 15:39 |
| nomis | Jaffa: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/statusbardisco_0.1_armel.deb <-- just showing the current levels, no further functionality yet. | 15:39 |
| nomis | Jaffa: (that is for the N800) | 15:39 |
| Veggen | jcml: And when I got there, they'd never seen such a thing, and had no clue where it should go, but they did manage to fix it ;) | 15:40 |
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| dwd | Is 2.2006-51-6 the latest and greatest for N800? | 15:40 |
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| keesj | tbb , what command did you use to start the xephir? | 15:40 |
| dwd | jcml_: They'll just send it on to the central repair place, I'd have thought. | 15:41 |
| |tbb| | Xephyr :3 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac | 15:41 |
| keesj | and what happens if you start a different app osso-xterm? | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | why is the dpi of the X server in the 770 set to a fake value? | 15:42 |
| nomis | mgedmin: "because everybody does it". | 15:43 |
| mgedmin | who is everybody? | 15:43 |
| jcml_ | Veggen/dwd: Thanks :) | 15:43 |
| mgedmin | zaurus et al? | 15:43 |
| nomis | mgedmin: for example Debian :-( | 15:43 |
| mgedmin | hm... my ubuntu doesn't | 15:43 |
| jcml_ | Veggen: define "some time" .... :-) | 15:44 |
| mgedmin | and thanks to the wonders of xrandr I sometimes get horizontal dpi != vertical dpi, and both totally out of whack | 15:44 |
| nomis | mgedmin: the default config of GDM in Debian hardcodes the DPI in the X-Server invokation. Which sucks utterly. | 15:44 |
| mgedmin | well, maybe not so utterly, most desktop/laptop monitors are pretty close to 100dpi | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | but the 770 is at 225 dpi | 15:45 |
| Veggen | jcml: well, it felt like ages, but it might have been only 1 1/2 month ;) | 15:45 |
| nomis | mgedmin: my notebooks display is at 124dpi. | 15:46 |
| |tbb| | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > osso-xterm | 15:46 |
| |tbb| | osso_initialize() failed! | 15:46 |
| mgedmin | run af-sb-init.sh start | 15:46 |
| mgedmin | oh, you did | 15:47 |
| keesj | hmm osso-xterm is not a pure x11 server | 15:47 |
| andreasn | tigert: around? | 15:48 |
| mgedmin | strange errors about keybinding.r | 15:48 |
| mgedmin | strange errors about keybinding.rc | 15:48 |
| |tbb| | do u think a reboot from the system will help | 15:49 |
| mgedmin | no | 15:50 |
| jcml_ | Veggen: 6 weeks? Crikey ... :( | 15:51 |
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| nomis | |tbb|: to restart the af-init-sb properly I sometimes have to killall qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb2, sometimes even with -9. | 15:52 |
| Veggen | jcml: In the meantime I got tired of waiting and bought an N800 too ;-) | 15:52 |
| Veggen | (and just after, my 770 returned) | 15:52 |
| jcml_ | Veggen: grr. it's my nice shiny 770-replacement n800 that's got the fault :| | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | Heh, a Nokian's voted for my DSP bug: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=976 | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | (and pointed out that voting is now enabled on N800 bugs) | 15:53 |
| jcml_ | dwd: I don't have a registered nick, so I can't reply to that PM but ... thanks for the suggestion :-) | 15:53 |
| inz | |tbb|, does "run-standalone.sh osso-xterm" work? | 15:54 |
| tigert | andreasn, yes | 15:55 |
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| andreasn | tigert: trying to ssh to my 770, but I get totally weird errors | 15:55 |
| andreasn | I can ping it and stuff though | 15:55 |
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| |tbb| | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > run-standalone.sh osso-xterm | 15:56 |
| |tbb| | AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.defs' not found | 15:56 |
| |tbb| | /home/tb/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc" | 15:56 |
| |tbb| | osso_initialize() failed! | 15:56 |
| inz | andreasn, do you have xterm running on the device? | 15:56 |
| inz | |tbb|, doh -- failing osso_initialize usually means the program cannot contact the dbus daemon | 15:57 |
| andreasn | inz: yes | 15:57 |
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| inz | andreasn, you're probably running out of ptys | 15:57 |
| andreasn | hm? | 15:57 |
| |tbb| | hmmh | 15:57 |
| |tbb| | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > ps aux |grep xterm | 15:57 |
| |tbb| | root 30153 0.0 0.2 4612 1076 pts/1 S Jan30 0:00 su -c eval $TERM; exec env TERM='xterm' DISPLAY=':0' $SHELL; | 15:57 |
| tzz | Jaffa: I'll check the source, I'm pretty sure you are not matching emacspretest in the dir name. THanks for the help. | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | tbb, by the way, I don't think you can get X apps running in the *armel* target | 15:58 |
| mgedmin | try the PC one | 15:58 |
| inz | andreasn, try running "echo 64 > /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max" as root in the xterm | 15:59 |
| andreasn | inz: I don't have root though, that's what I needed ssh for | 15:59 |
| |tbb| | mgedmin: 4 hours ago it was working | 16:00 |
| inz | andreasn, then try closing the xterm and try ssh'ing in | 16:00 |
| andreasn | ah, managed to become root now | 16:02 |
| tigert | openssh? | 16:03 |
| andreasn | ok, ran "echo 64 > /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max" | 16:04 |
| inz | andreasn, can you ssh in now? | 16:04 |
| andreasn | andreas@andreas-laptop:~$ ssh 192.168.1.2 | 16:05 |
| andreasn | ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.2 port 22: No route to host | 16:05 |
| andreasn | still get that | 16:05 |
| part | mgedmin: X apps work on armel targets too | 16:05 |
| mgedmin | I never got them to run... | 16:06 |
| mgedmin | cpu 100% for a long time, then I get bored | 16:06 |
| inz | andreasn, ah, then it seems that the sshd is not running | 16:07 |
| andreasn | oh | 16:07 |
| andreasn | I installed dropbear | 16:07 |
| andreasn | do I need to start it from xterm? | 16:07 |
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| inz | Or, humm, maybe it defaults to some other port... | 16:08 |
| inz | I dunno | 16:08 |
| |tbb| | hmmh, | 16:11 |
| |tbb| | tb@S574rm3d14:~$ sb-conf select SDK_X86 | 16:11 |
| |tbb| | sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first | 16:11 |
| mgedmin | sb-conf killall | 16:12 |
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| thomasvs | hm, my n800 just started rebooting and keeps rebooting as soon as it hits the nokia hands screen :/ | 16:16 |
| thomasvs | anyone else seen this ? any suggestions ? | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | what did you do? | 16:16 |
| thomasvs | nothing special afaict | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | run apt-get upgrade as root perhaps? | 16:17 |
| thomasvs | at some point yesterday, yes | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | well, duh | 16:17 |
| thomasvs | ? | 16:17 |
| thomasvs | installing software causes endless reboots ? | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | that's a trap for new users :) | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | upgrading maemo-launcher kills that process | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | the lifeguard notices that an ESSENTIAL SYSTEM DAEMON IS DEAD, OMG | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | so it reboots the device | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | while the upgrade is not yet complete | 16:18 |
| thomasvs | but it keeps rebooting | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | and since the upgrade is not complete, the reboot fails | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | there are two ways to fix the situation | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | 1) use the flasher to enable rd mode and disable lifeguard resets | 16:18 |
| |tbb| | no-lifguard-reset ;) | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | then run the upgrade again and let it complete in peace | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | 2) reflash | 16:18 |
| thomasvs | mgedmin: are there some docs on either method ? | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure maemo-launcher is the one package that broke on your n800 | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | it could be some other essential process | 16:19 |
| thomasvs | maybe because I tried installing canola at some point yesterday | 16:19 |
| thomasvs | and installed only avahi | 16:19 |
| mgedmin | or it could be that you upgraded, say, busybox from the one that works on the device, to the one that only works in the SDK | 16:19 |
| thomasvs | well, I was considering flashing on a new kernel for SDHC anyway | 16:20 |
| mgedmin | it is somewhat disappointing that nokians didn't add any safeguards in preinst scripts | 16:21 |
| mgedmin | to prevent curious users from borking their devices in this way | 16:21 |
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| andrunko | thomasvs: how did you try to install canola on n800? there are no packages available yet :S | 16:23 |
| VRe | there should be repository for devices with all the libraries so people wouldn't enable that repo which is basically for scrachbox | 16:23 |
| thomasvs | andrunko: well I tried the scirocco repos | 16:24 |
| VRe | now it's nasty that many deb's depend on lib's which you need to get from repository for scrachbox | 16:24 |
| andrunko | thomasvs: i imagined, but it shouldn't work | 16:25 |
| thomasvs | andrunko: yeah, apparently | 16:25 |
| andrunko | heh | 16:25 |
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| |tbb| | tartget sdk_X86 works, but sdk_armel also works before, any idea? | 16:33 |
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| |tbb| | when i try to compile something for the N800 i need the target sdk_armel isnt it so? | 16:34 |
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| wumpus | the busybox upgrade trap got me too | 16:37 |
| kulve | |tbb|: yep | 16:38 |
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| thomasvs | hm, after a bunch of reboots, it now shuts down automatically 1 sec into booting :/ | 16:51 |
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| Disconnect | thomasvs: is it charged? | 17:01 |
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| |tbb| | so how can i get it back to work to start gui for _sdk_armel | 17:06 |
| thomasvs | Disconnect: I had charged it to full charge half an hour before, but of course it's hard to tell if the battery is charged | 17:07 |
| Disconnect | thomasvs: prolly is though .. i skipped to the end, what did you do that blew it up? kernel? | 17:07 |
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| thomasvs | Disconnect: I am not usre, but mgedmin's theory of me installing some software that removed an important system service and then lifeguard rebooting on boot sounds plausible | 17:08 |
| thomasvs | ok, so I reflashed it and it seems to boot now | 17:08 |
| |tbb| | damn now it works also on sdk_armel, have done nothing | 17:08 |
| part | dwd: did you test it? | 17:10 |
| dwd | part: The scratchbox menus? | 17:11 |
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| |tbb| | is the src for rssfeadreader applet available? | 17:17 |
| Disconnect | thomasvs: random side note, you can always disable lifeguard resets if you have the linux/osx flasher | 17:19 |
| part | dwd: yes | 17:19 |
| dwd | part: The menus seem to work fine, I've never had a problem. | 17:20 |
| part | dwd: ok, thanks | 17:20 |
| * Disconnect wants feedreader sources too, tie it into the API of his ajax feedreader | 17:21 | |
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| |tbb| | is it normal dont have a sw keyboard on os7 gui emulator (or how you call the af-sb-init.sh start gui) | 17:23 |
| dwd | |tbb|: I do, but it's sometimes a little glitchy. | 17:24 |
| part | tbb: do you mean maemo 3.0 when you say os7? | 17:25 |
| |tbb| | yes | 17:25 |
| part | ok | 17:25 |
| thomasvs | are there known issues with the flasher and fedora core ? | 17:25 |
| dwd | |tbb|: Oh, I've not tried Bora SDK yet. | 17:26 |
| part | tbb: you need the nokia binaries installed if you want to have the virtual keyboard | 17:26 |
| part | thomasvs: not that I know of. Are you having issues with it? | 17:26 |
| thomasvs | part: yeah, I have two machines, and neither allow me to flash | 17:26 |
| |tbb| | i think i got them, i was running a script which should installed that | 17:27 |
| |tbb| | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/INSTALL.txt | 17:28 |
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| part | thomasvs: which flasher are you using? | 17:28 |
| thomasvs | part: flasher-3.0 | 17:28 |
| thomasvs | part: a coworker of mine using ubuntu is able to flash it just fine | 17:29 |
| thomasvs | but I can't see anything particularly different on my system, no selinux problems, no other messages | 17:29 |
| part | tbb: have you done "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit" in both targets? | 17:29 |
| part | thomasvs: can you try the statically linked flasher instead? | 17:30 |
| thomasvs | part: sure | 17:30 |
| part | thomasvs: http://maemo.org/downloads/d3.php | 17:30 |
| * zbenjamin hates jffs2 images | 17:32 | |
| thomasvs | part: nope, no difference | 17:32 |
| thomasvs | strange | 17:32 |
| part | thomasvs: what's the error message? | 17:34 |
| thomasvs | part: just waiting for a usb device, and nothing happens | 17:34 |
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| part | thomasvs: ok. try if this helps: 1) disconnect the device and shut it down 2) start flasher 3) connect usb cable 4) connect power cable to the device | 17:36 |
| nomis | tigert: there? | 17:36 |
| |tbb| | thx part that was the problem | 17:37 |
| part | tbb: good | 17:38 |
| mukund | tigert: me too ping | 17:38 |
| |tbb| | but anyway got suspect errors | 17:42 |
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| |tbb| | /home/tb/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc" | 17:42 |
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| thomasvs | part: ok, so the static one works after I make sure both uhci_hcd and ehci_hcd are loaded | 17:45 |
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| |tbb| | is the source for rssfeadreader applet available? | 17:57 |
| part | tbb: osso-rss-feed-reader-list and osso-rss-feed-reader sources are available, not sure if those include the applet or not | 18:02 |
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| |tbb| | cant find it via apt-get :/ | 18:04 |
| part | no, you'll have to get the source tarball | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | Koen has them all unpacked somewhere, but I can't find the link atm | 18:07 |
| Jaffa | (and only Maemo 2 versions) | 18:07 |
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| |tbb| | where can i get the the maemo3 version? | 18:08 |
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| part | jaffa: maemo 2 sources from the cd are also at: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/maemo-src/ | 18:08 |
| Disconnect | does maemo 3 handle 64bit systems yet? istr it was a PITA in the last version | 18:12 |
| Disconnect | nevermind.. "E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture." | 18:13 |
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| Disconnect | btw scratchbox is misspelled in the original message (missing the h) | 18:14 |
| maddler | damn... after installing maemo-mapper gizmo stops working... | 18:14 |
| maddler | :| | 18:14 |
| Tak | Disconnect: ugh, that is a pita | 18:14 |
| maddler | I can't remember doing anything else... | 18:14 |
| Tak | I guess I won't be doing any dev on my opteron machine :-/ | 18:14 |
| Disconnect | Tak: it gets better | 18:15 |
| * Tak holds his breath | 18:16 | |
| Disconnect | sorry, digging out the new-pastebin url | 18:16 |
| Disconnect | http://channels.debian.net/paste/5224 | 18:17 |
| thomasvs | ok, excellent. I used the flasher to temporarily run a different kernel, the one with the SDHC patch | 18:18 |
| thomasvs | now if only I had an SDHC card to try :) | 18:18 |
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| * thomasvs looks forward to 16 GB of storage | 18:18 | |
| monteslu | is maemo 3 only for the 800? or is there a 2007 OS being made for the 770 ? | 18:18 |
| part | monteslu: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ | 18:19 |
| monteslu | so its not an official port from nokia? | 18:19 |
| Disconnect | Tak: note the "no scratchbox installed... error, there's a scratchbox installed" (and no, there's no scratchbox) | 18:20 |
| monteslu | "We're not targeting the end user or aiming at production quality, but instead focusing on providing the OS 2007 platform for hacking on a 770" ...Thanks alot Nokia | 18:20 |
| Tak | that's awesome "Scratchbox not existing...scratchbox already exists!" | 18:21 |
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| part | disconnect: does /scratchbox exist? | 18:22 |
| part | even if it's empty, if the directory exists, the installer will complain | 18:23 |
| part | echo "Scratchbox installation not existing..." | 18:24 |
| part | if [ -d $__scratchbox ] ; then | 18:24 |
| part | echo "E: Scratchbox already found in installation path '$__scratchbox'." | 18:24 |
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| Disconnect | yah thats what happened. somewhere along the way the dir got created | 18:25 |
| Disconnect | btw trying "sudo linux32 maemo-installer -d" .. i'll report back if it works | 18:26 |
| bedboi | i got my n800 :) | 18:28 |
| maddler | bedboi: GREAT! | 18:28 |
| maddler | so... tell us... | 18:29 |
| bedboi | :) | 18:29 |
| maddler | how is it? ;) | 18:29 |
| bedboi | good | 18:29 |
| bedboi | i'm testing | 18:29 |
| maddler | hehehe | 18:29 |
| Disconnect | ok that didn't work. package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64) | 18:35 |
| Disconnect | grrr. added --force-arch to the dpkg line and reran, it decided it would be good to remove the debs (starting with 50M of core :( ..) | 18:37 |
| Tak | yeah - I find it necessary to still have a small chroot for a lot of things | 18:37 |
| Disconnect | i could argue that erroring out and forcing you to either remove the debs or tell it to reuse them (-c) is more correct than removing a 50M archive without warning.. | 18:40 |
| part | disconnect: file a bug on the installer | 18:41 |
| Disconnect | yah | 18:41 |
| dwd | *sigh* I'm getting way too used to my 770/N800. I just tapped the screen of my 7610 to wake it up. | 18:42 |
| Disconnect | no 3.0 in bugzilla | 18:42 |
| part | disconnect: file it on the sdk or something | 18:43 |
| part | dwd: haha | 18:43 |
| maddler | dwd: LOL! | 18:43 |
| dwd | Hey, it could be worse, I've not yet tried hitting the twin panels on my workstation. | 18:44 |
| bedboi | just one question... the voip application that now supports the camera, is usable just with other n800 people | 18:45 |
| bedboi | is there any client that works for x86? | 18:45 |
| part | bedboi: only for win32 | 18:45 |
| bedboi | where? | 18:45 |
| part | not sure | 18:45 |
| bedboi | festooninc? | 18:45 |
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| dwd | What's the video calls using? Jingle/XMPP still? | 18:48 |
| part | dwd: I think so, yeah | 18:49 |
| Robot101 | videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com for the windows client | 18:49 |
| Robot101 | and yeah, it's XEP-0166 based voice/video, just using google's libjingle for the transport rather than UDP or ICE | 18:50 |
| part | I was going to say http://europe.nokia.com/A4305008 and then select "How can I set up, use, and disable Nokia Internet Call Invitation (Beta)?" | 18:50 |
| dwd | Robot101: Oh, question for you - is there any way I can tell which of my contacts can handle voice or video? | 18:51 |
| dwd | Robot101: As in, any way of getting at the disco jingle data. | 18:51 |
| Disconnect | part: yah. added as 1003 | 18:52 |
| Disconnect | adding one (enhancement) for --force-architecture | 18:52 |
| part | disconnect: you've got better chances of getting a bug fixed if it's filed | 18:53 |
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| bedboi | and there is no client for linux? | 18:54 |
| dwd | bedboi: If the core library is open source, and it's based on open standards, it should be "just a matter of coding". | 18:54 |
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| bedboi | is there any documentation? | 18:55 |
| Disconnect | part: ...yes, thats why i just filed 2 bugs.. although i've seen the discussions on bugs that end up in never-never land :) | 18:55 |
| Robot101 | dwd: in telepathy? or on xmpp? | 18:55 |
| dwd | bedboi: For libjingle? Yes. Quite a few programs use it already. | 18:55 |
| bedboi | dwd: yep i use libjingle | 18:56 |
| dwd | Robot101: Actually in the UI - I can see how to do it in XMPP, but the UI on the 770|N800 doesn't seem to show me whether the contact supports audio or not. | 18:56 |
| bedboi | for the video part | 18:56 |
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| Robot101 | dwd: libjingle doesn't interoperate with our video calling, because libjingle doesn't do jingle, it dos gtalk :P | 18:56 |
| Robot101 | dwd: yeah it's a lack in the UI, in future it might be fixed... | 18:57 |
| dwd | bedboi: As Robot101 says, there's a slew of XEPs describing the XMPP layer to it. | 18:57 |
| dwd | Robot101: Ah, good. Not just something I'm missing, then. :-) | 18:57 |
| Robot101 | bedboi: the backend the N800 uses is Telepathy, it's all open source | 18:58 |
| Robot101 | bedboi: and atm people are working on making it work in GNOME | 18:58 |
| bedboi | ah | 18:58 |
| Robot101 | http://raphael.slinckx.net/blog/2006-12-24/my-christmas-present-gossip-audiovideo | 18:59 |
| bedboi | the backend used by nokia is publicly available? | 18:59 |
| Robot101 | bedboi: yes, it's telepathy's "gabble" backend... see telepathy.freedesktop.org | 18:59 |
| bedboi | ah k | 18:59 |
| bedboi | so the svn is video ready | 18:59 |
| Robot101 | the svn is telepathy ready, you need our branch to play with video/voip | 18:59 |
| * maddler goes home | 19:01 | |
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| bedboi | Robot101: url? | 19:02 |
| c0ffee | hum | 19:02 |
| c0ffee | Robot101, so this thing can be used with the n800? | 19:02 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: yes | 19:03 |
| c0ffee | nice | 19:03 |
| Robot101 | I guess I should blog about that a bit, maybe get myself on planet maemo | 19:03 |
| c0ffee | so i can stop trying to make sense out of the libjingle they shipped with nici | 19:03 |
| Robot101 | because ppl seem to be asking what you can call with | 19:03 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: oh... yes... :) | 19:03 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: we're actually trying to stop using libjingle at all, it's a nightmare | 19:03 |
| c0ffee | a >200.000 lines diff written by my beloved friends from indt | 19:04 |
| Robot101 | nici? the one off videovoip.tableteer.n.c? | 19:04 |
| Robot101 | nokia internet call invitation, ah right | 19:04 |
| bedboi | Robot101: what you would like to use instead of libjingle? | 19:04 |
| c0ffee | yes | 19:04 |
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| Robot101 | bedboi: we already do the signalling (XMPP) ourselves, we just use libjingle for the NAT traversal | 19:05 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: that wasn't INdT | 19:05 |
| c0ffee | * Copyright 2006, INdT | 19:06 |
| c0ffee | * @author: Andre Moreira Magalhaes <andre.magalhaes@indt.org.br> | 19:06 |
| bedboi | Robot101: so you are going to develop a nat traversal library | 19:06 |
| c0ffee | that's in the libjingle source in some places | 19:06 |
| c0ffee | anyway bbl | 19:07 |
| Tak | hmm - would it be useful for fceu to autosave if the device shuts down while it's running? | 19:07 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: yes, we (telepathy) use a fork of libjingle which the INdT people have also worked on for tapioca | 19:07 |
| Robot101 | bedboi: yeah | 19:07 |
| Robot101 | bedboi: we're already doing it, http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~daf/darcs/nice/ | 19:08 |
| Tak | or does the risk of overwriting a good save state outweigh the risk of losing an indefinite amount of progress? | 19:08 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: it's in their svn on tapioca.sf.net | 19:08 |
| Robot101 | c0ffee: the nici people forked it even harder so it would interoperate with telepathy, which speaks real jingle | 19:08 |
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| makuchaku | Hi guys, did anyone got a message from the Nokia shop saying "Nokia / LetsTalk.com Order #XXXXX - Update on Your Order Status, Please Call Us" when the order was placed for the discounted N800? | 19:33 |
| jcml_ | oh /dear/ ... http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/PSP/Sony+PSP/news.asp?c=2247 | 19:36 |
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| Tak | heh, did you hear that the new firmware got cracked already? | 19:37 |
| nomis | I guess they waited too long with the release of their new firmware crack :) | 19:37 |
| nomis | /mode nomis -conspiracy | 19:38 |
| jcml_ | Has anyone thought how much nokia could profit from an opensource, third-part, not-hosted-on-garage version of an ipod click wheel interface on the 770/800's touch screen? Nokia'd only have to provide APIs for the native media player and would then be untouchable by apple ... <deepbreath> | 19:40 |
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| jcml_ | ... and when the 8GB cards start working, we'd have a 16gig ipod available for the price of the memory cards alone. | 19:41 |
| sunshine | lol | 19:42 |
| ||cw | well, apple is pretty defensive, so they would certainly find a way to shut it down | 19:42 |
| ||cw | the API's are already there | 19:42 |
| ||cw | or at least to make a new media player | 19:43 |
| jcml_ | ||cw: how much of the front-end of the media player could be coded from scratch with the current APIs? Is there much missing? | 19:43 |
| ||cw | it's just a media player | 19:43 |
| ||cw | there are 3-2 alternate ones in the application catalog already | 19:44 |
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| makuchaku | Guys, I'm really worried about my order... what can be the cause of "Nokia / LetsTalk.com Order #XXXXX - Update on Your Order Status, Please Call Us" message? | 19:44 |
| jcml_ | I don't know - have you tried calling them? | 19:44 |
| nomis | makuchaku: call and find out? | 19:44 |
| Tak | makuchaku: there have been lots of issues with orders - you should call them | 19:44 |
| ||cw | and then there's this: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/23/ipod-click-wheel-target-of-latest-apple-lawsuit/ | 19:45 |
| Disconnect | for anyone trying to run scratchbox on x86-64 .. i'm building an xserver-xephyr with the patch (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8417) i'll let you know if it works. | 19:45 |
| makuchaku | nomis, Tak, I've requested my uncle to talk to them, I'm from India & he's in US. He's the one who has ordered my device. | 19:45 |
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| nomis | makuchaku: ah. There have been some similiar reports, usually a call cleared these up quickly IIRC. | 19:46 |
| makuchaku | nomis, oh, ok. Is there a numeric form of this number - 1-866-59NOKIA which I can call | 19:47 |
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| makuchaku | nomis, as it seems, I cannot dial this number from India | 19:47 |
| nomis | makuchaku: unsure how the assignment of letters->numbers usually is. | 19:47 |
| hap | is canola available for N800 yet ? | 19:47 |
| makuchaku | nomis, oh | 19:47 |
| Disconnect | makuchaku: istr there are a bunch of voip clients that allow free calls to 800 numbers. (you can't call an 800 # internationally, regardless of the #/letter thing) | 19:47 |
| makuchaku | nomis, thanks anyways. I'll request my uncle to call them. | 19:48 |
| makuchaku | Disconnect, ok :) | 19:48 |
| Tak | 866-596-6542 | 19:48 |
| andrunko | hap: not yet, we are almost there | 19:48 |
| hap | andrunko: ok, a friend i met yesterday told me to try it, i was saying how bad I think the N800 UI is. | 19:49 |
| hap | so i'll just i guess | 19:49 |
| hap | so I'll just wait i guess | 19:49 |
| andrunko | you won't have to wait for too long | 19:49 |
| maddler | anyone with a gizmo client? | 19:49 |
| hap | andrunko: like hours ? ;) | 19:49 |
| hap | andrunko: or days | 19:49 |
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| hap | maddler: me, but i don't want you to call me ;) | 19:49 |
| maddler | hap: :P | 19:50 |
| maddler | haha | 19:50 |
| hap | i'm trying to use gizmo with my SIP providers, but it doesn't work. | 19:50 |
| hap | no log, just the call stops, and I get no phonecalls on my regular line, sux. | 19:50 |
| maddler | hap: eh... I've been fighting with gizmo for a while... | 19:51 |
| andrunko | hap: days | 19:51 |
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| maddler | and now... it simply decided to start working... | 19:51 |
| hap | andrunko: ok, i'll wait for an announce here | 19:51 |
| andrunko | great | 19:51 |
| hap | maddler: ah, doesn't look very stable. | 19:51 |
| maddler | hap: no... | 19:51 |
| maddler | sadly enough... | 19:51 |
| hap | maddler: an opensource SIP client would be great | 19:52 |
| hap | i just don't know any, i mean opensource client that _works_ | 19:52 |
| maddler | I hoped it was an alternative to skype... | 19:52 |
| maddler | eh... | 19:52 |
| maddler | han anyone tried ekiga on N800? | 19:52 |
| hap | well i guess it won't be. It sux because my phone providers give me SIP access with free national calls, and international on some countries | 19:52 |
| hap | maddler: not tried. | 19:52 |
| hap | I guess you could try to dpkg-buildpackage to check :) | 19:53 |
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| maddler | hehe | 20:00 |
| maddler | maybe I'll give it a try... | 20:01 |
| keesj | a python list can be a very good idea, but again isnt that what garage projects are all about(having a bugtracker.mailing list) ? | 20:02 |
| maddler | I think the lists are ok as they are now... | 20:03 |
| maddler | _maybe_ the developer list should be only used for real development related threads... | 20:03 |
| maddler | and everything else should stay on maemo users... | 20:04 |
| Tak | supposedly the user list is for app development | 20:04 |
| maddler | imho... | 20:04 |
| Tak | and the dev list is for hacking on maemo itself | 20:04 |
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| keesj | i just can't believe i am typing all this on a thumb keyboard. it's really great to be in a bookstore or in front of the tv and still bee connected to irc and mail | 20:05 |
| Disconnect | keesj: its even better when you get a bluetooth keyboard :) | 20:06 |
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| keesj | only when i type i don't see what others have typed . i like the maemopeople term. i don't like being a user. i like the developer program. i don't like the user/expert relation since that would be very passive | 20:09 |
| hap | andrunko: looking at the youtube video, it looks great | 20:10 |
| hap | andrunko: great like something i want ;) | 20:10 |
| jcml_ | keesj: I find that the key thing with the thumb board is to be very IM-ish: short sentences ... | 20:11 |
| maddler | keesj: yes... the thumb board left me pleasantly surprised... | 20:12 |
| bedboi | anyone can install gpe-calendar for bora? | 20:12 |
| maddler | keesj: have you already opened your maemopeople(TM) blog? | 20:12 |
| maddler | hahahahaha | 20:12 |
| keesj | what if the real 'maemo' development was called maemo-distro would that fill the trem. ? | 20:12 |
| bedboi | from application catalog | 20:12 |
| maddler | bedboi: it actually worked for me... | 20:12 |
| bedboi | it says that it lacks gpg stuff | 20:13 |
| andrunko | hap: nice tnx :) | 20:13 |
| maddler | bedboi: you should ignore that... | 20:13 |
| bedboi | hmm, ignore? | 20:14 |
| bedboi | i can't ignore | 20:14 |
| bedboi | it fails | 20:14 |
| keesj | maddler it don't think i have the writing quality it would harm the community :) | 20:14 |
| Tak | will the new canola have video seeking? | 20:14 |
| Tak | lol | 20:14 |
| maddler | keesj: haha.. | 20:14 |
| andrunko | Tak: we are working on that, it already works here, but we have some issues that we are trying to fix | 20:16 |
| Disconnect | maybe a stupid question, but where is the source tarball for rssreader? the sources page says "some is available via apt-get" but nothing about where the rest is.. | 20:16 |
| Tak | andrunko: cool - that's my #2 wanted feature | 20:16 |
| Disconnect | (well, sources for rssreader are my goal, the main tarball is where its supposed to be...) | 20:16 |
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| andrunko | Tak: :) | 20:16 |
| tko | Disconnect, should be right next to the email sources | 20:18 |
| Disconnect | ....http://maemo.org/downloads/download-source.html isn't particularly useful | 20:18 |
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| tko | Disconnect, you need to use the written GPL offer, like http://hsivonen.iki.fi/maemo-src/ | 20:22 |
| Disconnect | nobody requested the 3.0 sources yet? :( | 20:23 |
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| inz | Disconnect, http://maemo.org/downloads/Nokia_N800_OS.php | 20:27 |
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| Disconnect | ahh nice | 20:28 |
| tko | inz, is that page linked somewhere? :) | 20:28 |
| Disconnect | anyone want to add that to the sources page? | 20:28 |
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| inz | tko, http://maemo.org/downloads/ ;) | 20:29 |
| tko | that's not exactly what I meant... | 20:29 |
| inz | tko, well, http://maemo.org/downloads/IT_source.php links to it ;) | 20:31 |
| Disconnect | btw those patches fixed xephyr on my ubuntu-amd64 system. i'll stick the deb on my site in a bit | 20:31 |
| Disconnect | inz: but the 'trail' to sources (From nokia sites) is download-source.html | 20:31 |
| tko | inz, starting from maemo.org is there a trail to Nokia_N800_OS.php ? | 20:32 |
| inz | tko, nope =( | 20:32 |
| inz | tko, the IT_sources.php was mentioned on this channel a longish time ago | 20:33 |
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| kulve | http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 | 20:34 |
| kulve | there's a linkt to that url | 20:34 |
| kulve | is that the same place? | 20:34 |
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| inz | kulve, that's the URL for the image, not the sources, right? | 20:35 |
| kulve | I don't want to enter the mac there, so I don't know. The page itself is exactly the same | 20:36 |
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| Disconnect | got the source, but i'm not in a position to host a 200M file - anyone got hosting suggestions? (my uplink is about 10k/s ATM..) | 20:40 |
| Disconnect | actually....scratch that. 2.2006.* ... | 20:41 |
| Disconnect | (i'm dumb, ignore all that. its the right source package, and i'm open to suggestions as to where to put it for others) | 20:44 |
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| waite | Disconnect I can provide some storage space | 21:09 |
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| Texrat | Testing, testing... | 21:14 |
| Tak | passing? | 21:14 |
| Texrat | Anyone home? | 21:14 |
| Texrat | Lol | 21:14 |
| mgedmin | test failed: timed out | 21:15 |
| Texrat | Just installed tablet gaim irc | 21:15 |
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| Texrat | Making sure it worked :) | 21:16 |
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| daveaitel | I love how Nokia only operates through Brightpoint | 21:18 |
| daveaitel | here in the states | 21:18 |
| daveaitel | and Brightpoint won't sell the N800 | 21:18 |
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| _k-s_ | guys, how (n800) to setup a fake network connection so I can access localhost from browser? | 21:19 |
| mgedmin | it's like they're trying to put as many obstacles as possible between the tablets and the potential purchasers | 21:19 |
| _k-s_ | I was using "gconftool-2 --type string --set /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/Localhost/type DUMMY" | 21:20 |
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| etrunko | _k-s_: have you looked at libconic? | 21:21 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: nope, what's it? | 21:21 |
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| Tak | daveaitel: compusa? | 21:22 |
| etrunko | _k-s_: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide_bora.html | 21:22 |
| Tak | or do you mean like mass purchase? | 21:22 |
| etrunko | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide_bora.html#LibConIC | 21:22 |
| Disconnect | waite: first lets see if garage lets me have a project to host it. (seems only fair :) ..) | 21:23 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: I still have to read it, but from a quick overview, it seems not to be what I'm looking for | 21:24 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: it seems to be what browser uses | 21:24 |
| Tak | files in the "Files" section in garage are limited to like 4MB | 21:24 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: I need to overcome this library | 21:24 |
| daveaitel | tak - we need a real agreement to do Immunity SILICA - can't just order from CompUSA | 21:25 |
| etrunko | _k-s_: hmm... Actually i don't know what has changed since 2.1 version | 21:25 |
| etrunko | :P | 21:25 |
| * Tak nods @ daveaitel | 21:25 | |
| Disconnect | lovely. "I don't think this is necessary, the sources are available." (but they are only available to tablet owners.) | 21:25 |
| daveaitel | Nokia's phone people have no idea what the N770 or N800 is | 21:25 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: ouch... time running out... | 21:25 |
| daveaitel | it's weird. This is nokia's coolest product! | 21:25 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: canola still pending some problems | 21:25 |
| _k-s_ | :-( | 21:25 |
| etrunko | damn | 21:26 |
| Disconnect | waite: since they denied it, yah. i'd love someplace to host the files. 320 files, 220 megs :) | 21:26 |
| etrunko | _k-s_: i was told this libconic is what you should use for connections... the gconf way is deprecated | 21:26 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: ok | 21:26 |
| Disconnect | and there's no appeal option (or any communication), short of creating another project with an updated description. which sounds like a good way to end up banned.. | 21:27 |
| _k-s_ | etrunko: I'll have talita to read it... | 21:27 |
| etrunko | _k-s_: maybe you should ask in the ML | 21:27 |
| etrunko | _k-s_: :) | 21:27 |
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| Yuvee | where can I get img files for Garmin GPS receiver ? | 21:38 |
| Disconnect | Yuvee: garmin.com | 21:39 |
| Yuvee | it doesnt provide img for free | 21:39 |
| thraddie | you did not say you want to get them for free ;-) | 21:40 |
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| Disconnect | Yuvee: maps cost money. alternately, gpsbabel might be able to convert us tiger data to garmin format | 21:45 |
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| myren_ | i dont think gpsbabel can do anything with tiger | 21:52 |
| myren_ | there's some programs out there to turn tiger into useful data, but it was a rather extensive process when i tried it couple years ago | 21:53 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 21:55 |
| inz | hola! | 21:56 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: ao` | 21:58 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: ciao! | 21:58 |
| keesj | Coucou | 21:58 |
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| sbaturzio | 1st question: is there a GUI editor for Hildon and C? IIRC Gatzpacho works only for python | 21:59 |
| keesj | inz nice feature to open the url from an xterm link. | 21:59 |
| keesj | sbaturzio, I have used glade2 for dialogs and such | 22:00 |
| inz | keesj, I made that cuz I'm lazy ;) | 22:00 |
| sbaturzio | keesj: but still need libglade installed? | 22:00 |
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| sbaturzio | gtk can use xml files natively, so why glade? | 22:00 |
| keesj | sbaturzio, no, i generated c code | 22:01 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: what's up? | 22:01 |
| sbaturzio | keesj: uh...You're right: glade could generate C code....uhmmm.....(and suddenly a door opened in front of him) 8-) | 22:03 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: I'm starting to code for n800...first approach ;-) | 22:04 |
| * nomis recommends to avoid glade and code GTK+ manually. | 22:04 | |
| etrunko | definitely | 22:05 |
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| keesj | for me is it really only gui code , I don't even want to touch it. the generated was "mostly" untouched by me | 22:06 |
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| keesj | the generated good is the best example that I could find anyway | 22:09 |
| nomis | I really wonder why the glade-generated code does not use the g_object_new (GTK_SOME_TYPE, "property1", value1, "property2", value2, ..., NULL); syntax. That makes code so nicely to read. | 22:10 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: good... | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | glade-generated code? | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | isn't that out of fashion these days? | 22:11 |
| * mgedmin agrees that most code generators are evil | 22:11 | |
| keesj | c is evil and old fashion ! | 22:11 |
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| keesj | just kidding, but what is the right aproach? code by hand? what do you gain? | 22:13 |
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| nomis | keesj: the code is nicer and you don't depend on glade to be able to work with it. | 22:14 |
| keesj | If you go for the xml + dsl language I can also understand it | 22:14 |
| Tak | I use glade to generate the initial code, then make any changes by hand | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | Tak: that's exactly the case where code generation is evil | 22:16 |
| Protocol- | where is the ESC key on the keyboard? to use vi..? | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | automatic code generation is benign (think lex/yacc/bison) | 22:16 |
| Tak | Protocol-: the button directly under the d-pad | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | s/automatic/automated/ | 22:16 |
| Protocol- | f'Tak: ah yes of course, thanks ;) | 22:16 |
| Tak | how is that case evil? | 22:16 |
| Tak | I have code for a decent layout that didn't take me 80 hours to perfect | 22:17 |
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| mgedmin | Tak: because later you'll want to modify the interface in Glade, and then you will have to reapply all your modifications by hand | 22:17 |
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| Tak | no, I don't ever modify the interface in glade after the initial generation | 22:17 |
| Veggen | mmmh. Invalid signature for tableteer.nokia.com ? | 22:17 |
| keesj | mgedmin, Look I am not talking about roundtrip gui design and such, but I have done enough gui coding to know that coding gui by hand is not the best option | 22:17 |
| Tak | that's what I meant; all subsequent mods are by hand | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | keesj: I have nothing against loading glade XML files in code | 22:18 |
| nomis | Also usually the autogenerated variable names suck - of course you can change that in Glade, but at least I am too lazy for that. | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | and not much agains having a makefile rule to generate a .c file from the .glade file, provided that nobody modifies the .c file by hand | 22:18 |
| Tak | yeah, I change them | 22:18 |
| nomis | and if you have a dialog with 10 entries you don't really need variables entry1 .. entry10 | 22:18 |
| keesj | and if you case a little bit about separation of gui and logic and you try to separate them I really don't seen the problem | 22:18 |
| Tak | is libglade part of hildon? | 22:18 |
| sbaturzio | 2nd question: xmame ask me to press 'ok' to start a game: but where is the keyboard? tapping on the screen doesn't works | 22:19 |
| Tak | sbaturzio: left/right on the dpad | 22:19 |
| Tak | (dpad may be/probably is rotated) | 22:19 |
| sbaturzio | Tahitibob: thank you! | 22:19 |
| Tak | next release of xmaeme will have a note about that ;-) | 22:19 |
| tzz | geez maemo-* mailing lists have become noisy lately | 22:19 |
| sbaturzio | Tak: thank you! | 22:19 |
| nomis | tzz: it will get better when all initial N800 issues are sorted out. | 22:20 |
| sbaturzio | Tahitibob: sorry: wrong tab completion ;-) | 22:20 |
| Protocol- | is there anything to rotate the screen? | 22:20 |
| tzz | nomis: sure, but I think 10 years are a long time to wait :) | 22:21 |
| tzz | protocol: no. | 22:21 |
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| jobi | hi all | 22:23 |
| Veggen | ppl, the last days when I've been doing update, it's only downloaded about 2kb out of my shitload of repositories, and I see no updates. Is this an error, or *hasn't* there been new programs, not even in extras? | 22:26 |
| tzz | veggen: try apt-get update from the command line | 22:26 |
| tzz | as root of course | 22:26 |
| Veggen | tzz: Some gpg errors. Among those, a BADSIG from tableteer. | 22:27 |
| Veggen | (but nothing marked as errors). | 22:27 |
| Veggen | "You may want to run apt-get update to fix these problems". dug. | 22:28 |
| Veggen | duh. | 22:28 |
| Veggen | (that's what I did, just) | 22:28 |
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| mgedmin | Veggen: why are you surprised? | 22:29 |
| mgedmin | this is not Debian unstable, you know | 22:29 |
| Veggen | mgedmin: well...I'm just unpatient about things starting to show up from mud-builder, for example :) | 22:29 |
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| Veggen | (I coud use vim, and netdate is handy) | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | netdate or ntpdate? | 22:30 |
| Veggen | ntpdate, of course. duh. | 22:31 |
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| Veggen | ugh. An strace -f on the apt-get update shows a SIGILL. | 22:38 |
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| timeless | it's fun when apt-get crashes | 22:40 |
| jobi | Veggen: you could try to move /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00_smallcache, it was causing problems at some point | 22:40 |
| Veggen | still a SIGILL. | 22:42 |
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| Veggen | could I delete a cache? | 22:45 |
| tzz | veggen: take out half your repos and do an update. If it works, uncomment half of what remains, etc. (do a binary search). Maybe that will work. | 22:46 |
| tzz | veggen: basically, find what's broken :) | 22:46 |
| Veggen | mmmh. | 22:47 |
| jobi | Veggen: does it dump a core? | 22:48 |
| Veggen | well, cores are disabled per default, not? | 22:50 |
| jobi | Veggen: I don't think so, if you have a core-dumps directory on your mmc | 22:55 |
| Veggen | ah, right. the internal or external one? | 22:56 |
| Veggen | :) | 22:56 |
| jobi | at least external | 22:58 |
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| Veggen | yah. got a core dump. | 22:59 |
| Veggen | now, I disabled every repository except for the main one. | 23:00 |
| Veggen | didn't help | 23:00 |
| jobi | Veggen: could you fill a bug and attach the core dump? I'll bug marius to take a look | 23:01 |
| Veggen | mm, ok. | 23:02 |
| jobi | cool thanks | 23:02 |
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| Veggen | bug 1005. | 23:11 |
| timeless | This GDB was configured as "--host=i386-pc-solaris2.11 --target=armel-linux". | 23:13 |
| timeless | :) | 23:13 |
| timeless | anyone here familiar w/ how to report a bug in gdb? :) | 23:14 |
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| Veggen | actually I'm not so sure it crashes. | 23:28 |
| maddler | the more I use it, the more I like this thunb board | 23:29 |
| Veggen | mmf, it only crashed when I straced it :) | 23:30 |
| gpd | do we know the read/write speed of the N800 - ie. is it worth buying a 150x SD card? or will the cheapest be the same? | 23:30 |
| maddler | gpd, I was thiking about thath too | 23:32 |
| maddler | but then I found the there is not so much price difference | 23:32 |
| gpd | I am stuck with a $50 Dell voucher and they are a rip off | 23:32 |
| gpd | can't think of /anything/ that i want from them... | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | BT keyboard? | 23:32 |
| gpd | got elsewhere - sierra :D | 23:33 |
| myren_ | what are the best bt keyboards? | 23:34 |
| myren_ | portable ones | 23:34 |
| myren_ | i need one but havent the foggiest what i'm looking for | 23:34 |
| gpd | my 'think outside bluetooth sierra' is good so far - fullsize keys | 23:34 |
| myren_ | oh fuck | 23:35 |
| myren_ | i should buy a twiddler | 23:35 |
| myren_ | i've been meaning to do that for a hundred years now | 23:35 |
| gpd | ? | 23:35 |
| maddler | no... I meant on screen | 23:36 |
| maddler | but thunking about that BT thumb board as well. | 23:36 |
| maddler | It should be almost same size of e61 kbd | 23:36 |
| timeless | hrm, i need to get binaries for a release | 23:36 |
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| myren_ | twiddler: http://www.handykey.com/site/features.html | 23:36 |
| myren_ | one handed chordic keyboard | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | ah, like's nelson's developing? | 23:37 |
| myren_ | _the_ keyboard of cybernaughts | 23:37 |
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| myren_ | i'm not familiar with this nelson, nor his undertakings | 23:37 |
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| nelson | myren_: who, me? | 23:37 |
| myren_ | perhaps. you are developing a one handed keyboard? | 23:38 |
| nelson | myren_: http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite | 23:38 |
| nelson | Right now it has two problems: 1) electronics only support N770, and 2) keyboards have to be custom-made to fit your hand. | 23:39 |
| * maddler wonders how long akes to get used to that | 23:39 | |
| nelson | You can type your name in ten minutes (or more if your true name happens to be aluseyhuilwqheluqarhlasyerliqwyrelwhtlykjasdlfkj). | 23:40 |
| nelson | I still use the cheat sheet for uncommon punctuation. | 23:41 |
| myren_ | i really want a sensor glove for a keyboard | 23:41 |
| myren_ | i saw a really amazing prototype at a small ubiquotous home computing conference once | 23:41 |
| myren_ | but never heard/saw from them again | 23:41 |
| nelson | I think you don't. You need the feedback from a switch. | 23:41 |
| Veggen | ppl, what's the timestamps of your last files in /var/lib/apt/lists ? | 23:42 |
| Veggen | except for the lock. | 23:42 |
| nelson | Maybe if the glove had a deformable bit of metal with a snap to it, that might work. | 23:42 |
| Jaffa | nelson: Why do the electronics only support the N770? Wasn't it BT, rather than USB? | 23:42 |
| nelson | It's not a keyboard HID yet. | 23:43 |
| myren_ | BT is frakking impossible for hobbyists, the BT consurtium does their best to make sure its inaccessible to mere mortals. | 23:43 |
| nelson | Still working on getting that from Taiwan. | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | nelson: ah | 23:43 |
| nelson | myren_: serial BT is pretty straightforward. | 23:43 |
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| myren_ | true enough | 23:43 |
| nelson | myren_: just go buy a serial BT module, of which there is at least 5, and you only need to bind the BT mac address to a /dev/rfcommN device. | 23:44 |
| gpd | ah ha! How about a usb-bluetooth for my desktop - might be handy | 23:44 |
| Veggen | it *does* seem like things works. | 23:44 |
| * Jaffa TVs. | 23:45 | |
| nelson | Yep, and you can pick up one for $10-$15. | 23:45 |
| Veggen | it's just that I've been used to it downloading much, so I thought it was a bug when it has downloaded only 2kb for the last 2 days.. | 23:45 |
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| timeless | can someone walk me through using apt? :) | 23:49 |
| Veggen | timeless: sure? | 23:49 |
| Veggen | it's usually as simple as "apt-get install <package-name>" if you know the name. | 23:50 |
| timeless | timeless@nexenta:~$ apt-get --ignore-missing install -m alarmd alsa-lib | 23:50 |
| timeless | Reading package lists... Done | 23:50 |
| timeless | Building dependency tree... Done | 23:50 |
| timeless | E: Couldn't find package alsa-lib | 23:50 |
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| timeless | what magical incantation do i need to make it not error when it can't find something (e.g. alsa-lib) | 23:50 |
| c0ffee | it's just not there | 23:50 |
| c0ffee | you have to compile it yourself | 23:50 |
| c0ffee | get the sources from packages.debian.org | 23:50 |
| timeless | that's not the point | 23:51 |
| timeless | if it isn't there, i don't want it | 23:51 |
| timeless | i want alarmd | 23:51 |
| Veggen | so, just don't include it on your apt-get install line? | 23:51 |
| c0ffee | if alarmd depends on alsa-lib you can't have it without alsa | 23:51 |
| timeless | alarmd doesn't | 23:51 |
| timeless | but my real line has a couple hundred items | 23:51 |
| timeless | i'm not planning on manually removing the fifty or so that aren't there if i can avoid it | 23:52 |
| c0ffee | for a in $items; do apt-get install $a ; done | 23:52 |
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| timeless | i'd rather not do that if possible | 23:53 |
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| timeless | -m, --ignore-missing, --fix-missing | 23:53 |
| timeless | Ignore missing packages; If packages cannot be retrieved or fail the integrity check after retrieval (corrupted package | 23:53 |
| timeless | files), hold back those packages and handle the result. Use of this option together with -f may produce an error in some sit- | 23:53 |
| timeless | uations. If a package is selected for installation (particularly if it is mentioned on the command line) and it could not be | 23:53 |
| timeless | downloaded then it will be silently held back. Configuration Item: APT::Get::Fix-Missing. | 23:53 |
| c0ffee | you're a bit picky :) | 23:53 |
| timeless | am i missing something in my reading of man apt-get? | 23:54 |
| timeless | yes, i am picky | 23:54 |
| timeless | but i'm usually very explicit about my requirements | 23:54 |
| maddler | we don't for sure! | 23:54 |
| maddler | ghgh | 23:54 |
| timeless | and i usually have what i feeel are fairly valid reasons for them | 23:54 |
| timeless | s/eee/ee/ | 23:54 |
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| timeless | alternatively, is there a way to ask a repository to give me all things it has? :) | 23:56 |
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