IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-01-20

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Veggenduh. think maemo mapper works. I just forgot to pair the N800 with the GPS.00:04
arnnnnnokia gps kit doesn't have usa map, does it ?00:06
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konfooim making a scratchbox vmware build.. anyone interested in it00:26
konfoolet me know and i will put it up for torrent00:26
konfoofor n800 dev..00:26
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Jaffakonfoo: cool, I was thinking of doing something similar, but there's so much crap in my Ubuntu VMware player image I never got around to it.00:31
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konfooJaffa: nod, i am going for a stripped down barebones server + some essentials00:34
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jtokashkonfoo, that would be excellent!00:42
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skorianezIs there any one who can help a newbe setup scratchbox?00:45
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wumpuswhat's the problem skorianez ?00:48
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skorianezI setup everythink like in maemo.org00:49
skorianezbut when I can switch from i386 to arm00:49
skorianezsb-conf select SDK_ARMEL00:49
skorianezI got this error:00:49
wumpusyep that's the line00:49
skorianezsb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first00:49
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skorianezWhat I do00:50
wumpusyou need to make sure nothing is running in scratchbox when you switch00:50
skorianezI loggoff scratchbox00:50
skorianezthen login again , and same erro00:50
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skorianezwumpus, have any sugestions?00:52
wumpusI believe there was a command to kill everything running in the scratchbox, you might try that00:53
wumpusapart from that no idea :/00:53
skorianezdo you know such command?00:53
skorianezI am new in this00:53
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skorianezI find, :)  sb-conf killall00:56
* sp3001 slaps the browser for not emitting a resize event when focusing a textarea brings up the keys00:56
skorianeznow back to tutorial, thanks wumpus00:57
sp3001whereas dismissing the keys does, and invoking the keys by touching the scrollbar when focus in textarea00:57
|tbb|minra, the hostname changed to the default name back, i wonder00:58
minraah...  interesting00:58
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|tbb|hmmh, or may its my fault ive not changed it at the file, i just typed hostname somehostname01:00
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minrai don't see hostname being a problem01:02
|tbb|i think its my fault01:04
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skorianezwumpus... still here?01:10
skorianeznow tha I in ARM can i use apt-get upgrade?01:11
skorianezcan i install arms packges in my devel enviroment?01:11
c0ffeejhe, any news on the sco commands? :)01:12
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wumpusit's a cross compilation environment, so you need to install arm packages in the arm environment01:12
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skorianezI do a apt-get update, and get a lot off dependancy error01:13
skorianezwith a do " apt-get install -f " it will remove a lot of think01:13
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Molagiwhat the hell is wrong with this day, nothing works01:19
Molagiim trying to install osso xterm01:20
Molagiand when i execute it comes error "internal error application "X Terminal" closed"01:20
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JaffaMolagi: I've seen a few people report it.01:23
Molagiit worked yesterday01:23
Molagiafter i reinstalled it now it doesnt work01:24
Molagii formatted my n80001:24
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guerbyMolagi, Jan 11 01:01:16 <framerate2>"Internal Error" is my xterm error :(01:29
Molagithe app wont even open01:30
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guerbyMolagi, I'm trying to find in my log framerat1|afk solution01:31
jhec0ffee: not really, ville is aware of it but he had no definitive answer when I talked to him over google talk yesterday. he'll be back in finland next week though.01:32
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guerbyMolagi, no luck I don't find anything indicating a solution01:35
guerbyMolagi, there it is01:36
guerbyFYI: There is another version of osso-xterm which is not compatible, if you are having difficulty installing osso-xterm:01:36
guerby    *01:36
guerby      Disable all other repositories except for repository.maemo.org01:36
guerby    *01:36
guerby      Refresh the package list01:36
guerby    *01:36
guerby      Look for osso-xterm without a stylized logo01:36
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Molagidoes that one work?01:45
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MolagiTHANK YOU!01:48
Molagiits workin01:48
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Molaginow irssi doenst work01:58
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MolagiNO WINDOWS: -!- Irssi: Invalid charset: CP1252 setupterm() failed for TERM=xterm: 0 Cant initialize screen handling, quitting you can still use the dummo mode with -d parameter02:00
Molagiwhat does that mean ;O02:00
Jaffatzz: I don't think you're on mud-builder-users, so:
|tbb|if i try to start visudo i became no editor found /usr/bin/editor02:02
|tbb|do i have to set  a link to an editor?02:02
kaatisdoes "EDITOR=vi visudo" work02:03
|tbb|yeah perfect02:03
* |tbb| wonders how less he knows02:04
kaatisdefault editor is propably set to /usr/bin/editor somewhere, which is missing02:05
|tbb|if installed leafpad, i was thinking then it might works but it wont work so02:05
|tbb|editor=leafpad also works :I02:06
|tbb|user all means all user or the user which name is user ?02:07
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Molagihmm how do i create a new internet radio channel02:12
* minra cant help anybody 02:13
VeggenMolagi: do you have the URL on a web page?02:13
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Molagiwhere do i add it02:13
VeggenThe easiest is to just clock on the URL.02:13
VeggenThen media player will open, and if you then clock and hold on the channel playing, you can save it.02:13
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Molagioh yeah02:16
Veggendid it work?02:16
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guerbyMolagi, happy to see xterm working for you :)02:16
Molagiyeah thx for the help02:17
Molaginow i need to figure how to get irssi working :D02:17
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gpdDisconnect: any tips on keyboard configuration with N800? I can't find xmodmap or xev.03:08
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gpdhah! using my Bluetooth sierra with a PowerBook G4 - we'll see if that shed's any light on the matter.03:31
gpdnot much - recognizes it as ANSI standard 101/102 keys03:33
gpdseems i'll have to RTFM unless daniels can assist03:34
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konfoohmm anyone know a good place to host the torrent for this vmware n800 dev image04:14
konfoomaybe vmware themselves :P04:14
minrais it a complete OS, with a scratchbox running inside it?  or is it just the scratchbox somehow running 'natively' in vmware?04:17
konfoono, complete os configged for scratchboxing04:18
konfooubuntu server + base gnome + devtools etc04:18
minranice... how big?04:20
konfooprolly around 300 megs when i get done compressing it04:20
konfoostill have to purge unneeded stuff like OO04:21
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wumpushey putting only scratchbox in a vm sounds interesting too04:24
wumpusit would be a very good emulator04:24
jtokashkonfoo, I'm really looking forward to it04:25
konfooill be done with it tomorrow sometime ;)04:25
wumpusyeah it at least gives an option to do maemo dev in windows04:25
Zer0Her0or macintel ;)04:26
konfooim customizing it for source editing.. drpython, scite etc04:26
konfoohesitant to integrate eclipse into it cause i dont know their redist policy04:26
minracome to think of it, ubuntu isnt such a bad choice for the host os since it is so easy to get around04:29
wumpusyeah ubuntu is nice and friendly04:30
wumpusI really like it as a linux distrib04:31
konfoolets you get on with doing actual work04:31
konfoonot dicking with having to configure stuff04:31
jtokashkonfoo, I can host the image if you need it04:32
konfoook thanks. i can host as well, just not torrent04:32
konfoonot enough b/w ;)04:33
jtokashwhat's involved in hosting a torrent?04:33
jtokashoh, you'd have to run the torrent client on the server04:34
konfooseeding it until there are enough seeds to take over04:34
konfooi may give it a whirl04:34
jtokashI can be a seed04:34
konfoogreat :) i will let u know04:35
jtokashmy upstream at home isn't being used for anything04:35
minra  just been reading the eclipse EPL license legalise -- if you redistribute eclipse, you are a "contributor" and must distribute eclipse also under the EPL.  but nowhere do i see them mention barriers to including eclipse in a distribution04:35
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konfoominra: good to know04:37
minrasince you are not charging money for 'derivative works' i don't see any violation.. but IANAL04:37
konfooyeah me neither..04:37
minralikewise, i see no grounds that bundling eclipse with other software would affect terms of redistribution04:38
minraadditionally, the EPL allows a simple redistributor to do so anonymously04:39
konfoook great i will throw it on here then04:39
konfooif anyone complains after the fact im sure an 'oh sorry my mistake' and rebundling will suffice04:39
konfooif not they can talk to my lawyer04:40
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minrai had to do some legal schooling a while back and man do i hate that stuff04:41
konfooi did corporate law at the university and it was so very boring04:41
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minrarehi Tak05:06
minrai hate the fact that it is so overgrown, complicated, micromanaging.. often ethically inconsistent05:06
* minra takes it to #politics05:06
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Tak|770hmm - the first completion for 'we...' is 'weirdass'05:09
konfoominra ;)05:10
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Andy80I'm writing from n770!05:20
pahartikAndy80: well done05:23
Andy80Thanks! I've bought it just today :)05:25
minrait took about 3 weeks for me to stop being gigglyhappy about the 77005:31
Zer0Her0oops wrong window05:32
Andy80eh eh05:33
pahartikminra: first three weeks I had to work on setting things up way I want05:36
Tak|770I was writing and porting apps05:38
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Tak|770going, 'Wow, this is cool!' the whole time05:39
minrathat's what i said when i saw some of your work :)05:42
minrathe emu capabilities are a bit of a bummer, but at least some of my xmame favorites work great05:43
Tak|770have you played since the pixel doubling went in?05:44
gpdis there a way to svn co the whole of garage? or is it per project?05:45
minrayeah, made 1942 way mo bettuh05:46
* Tak|770 shrugs05:46
minrathe vector games run nice cause iirc they dont redraw the whole screen05:47
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Tak|770eh, the no-simultaneous-buttons thing makes games like 194[23] less playable than they could be05:48
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minrai dont notice any issues when using a bt keyboard05:50
minrabut yeah, it does have drawbacks as an emu platform05:51
Tak|770ah, the kb helps...05:51
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minrai even got some halfway decent scores in robotron05:51
minraare you going to try for a developer n800 kit?05:52
Tak|770I'm hopeful05:52
konfoothere is that bluetooth gamepad...05:53
konfooand ofcourse a wiimote05:53
minrawell the stowaway rests fine on my lap, but where to put the 770...  same issue would arise with the game pad05:54
Tak|770I've got some experimental packages for bora...05:54
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konfooi noticed a wii remote wont pair with the 800 cause the remote uses no passcode and the bora bt app wont let you not use a passcode :(05:55
Tak|770  doesn't the stowaway have a stand for a device?05:55
minrai just get the feeling someone at nokia said "we don't want people to play games on this"05:55
konfoominra you got it..05:55
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konfoothe will of the people! however..05:55
minrait does, but the stand extends beyond the keyboard and the weight of the 770 pushes it down between your legs, so you really need a flat surface05:55
Tak|770heh, like 50% of the apps on garage are games05:56
konfooyou guys ever play lemonade stand on pocketpc? those types of games would work perfectly05:57
konfoosorry lemonade tycoon05:57
minrahmm, i think one could make the directional pad more responsive by attaching bumps to the 4 directions, so the thumb can quickly hit them without activating the center button05:57
minraim going to attach those self-adhesive little anti-slip rubber things to each side and see how those work out05:58
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Tak|770I would think they'd make it stick to the cover or one's pocket05:59
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gpdooh -- finally got maemochron working on N80006:12
gpdhmm... except it doesn't seem to make any noise06:13
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oknewbieThis may not be the right place. Does anyone know if IT2007 will be available for the 770 as well?06:16
gpdoknewbie: see topic06:16
minraright the cover wont fit anymore.. but the top of the rubber pad isnt sticky06:17
minrait doesnt help as much as id hoped06:17
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gpd^ oknewbie06:18
oknewbieokay thanx06:18
Tak|770gpd: lack of esd?06:19
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oknewbieLast question will the maemo developer try to work on bug fixes for the 770's OS or as end users are we being dumped (Not trying to sound rude)06:34
oknewbieJust trying to plan my next purchase06:35
oknewbieAnyway I have used a lot of the software you all have provided and it has been great thank you very much06:37
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konfoowoot broken 800 returned and replaced by compusa06:54
* konfoo still in shock06:54
gpd'broken' ?06:55
konfoobad card reader06:55
gpdwhy the shock?06:55
gpdi thought you meant you dropped it or something06:56
konfoothe shock that it went without issue at compusa06:56
gpdso you weren't tempted to exchange it for Windows Vista then...06:56
konfoowindow what now?06:56
konfooyet true06:57
gpd 'one heckuva OS' - I don't think I could even say that tongue in cheek06:58
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konfoowell you know how the microsofties get about their new os releases :)06:59
arnnnsuddenly just now when I tried to open my .txt file it says 'internal error, application closed', what's wrong with my n800 ?06:59
arnnninternal error. Application 'Notes' closed07:00
gpdarnnn: all .txt files?  after reboot?  only on card?07:00
arnnngpd, yes all .txt files07:01
arnnngpd, after startup07:01
arnnngpd, they are on card07:01
arnnngpd, I don't store anything on n800, everything is on card07:01
gpddid you try on n800? you may have a corrupt card?07:01
arnnngpd, I have .pdf files in the card, and they open fine07:01
gpdotherwise no idea... :(07:02
gpdcan you load notes without a file?07:02
arnnngpd, I can't even open notes07:02
arnnngpd, nope07:02
gpddid you apt-get update or anything?07:02
arnnngpd, nope, I didn't even have xterm07:02
arnnnI don't even have xterm07:03
* gpd scratches head07:03
arnnnI'm also charging right now, by the way07:03
solemanI got my n800 to go into the reboot loop less than 3 hours after I got it lol07:09
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minraheh... does the n800 have a robust way of reflashing a borked OS?07:13
arnnnshould I reflash my n800 to fix notes ?07:21
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arnnnso in order to reflash, I need to have xterm ?07:23
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arnnndo I need a linux pc connected to nokia n800 to reflash ?07:27
gpdlinux or windows iirc07:27
arnnnthe battery doesn't need to be full charged in order to reflash, right ?07:30
arnnnPC: Execute as root (or as a normal user with rights to use the USB port):  what does that mean ?07:35
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arnnnshould I see some prints out while reflashing ?08:08
arnnnthis is what happen right now08:08
arnnnSuitable USB device not found, waiting08:08
arnnnUSB device found found at bus 001, device address 00808:08
arnnnFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130108:08
arnnnNOLO version 1.1.208:08
arnnnVersion of 'sw-release': <no version>08:08
arnnnand the n800 is showing white screen with Nokia symbol08:08
arnnnand there is usb symbol at the top right of the n800 screen08:09
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arnnnI tried to reflash08:17
arnnnbut I always stop at this point08:17
arnnnSuitable USB device not found, waiting08:17
arnnnUSB device found found at bus 001, device address 00808:17
arnnnFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130108:17
arnnnNOLO version 1.1.208:17
arnnnVersion of 'sw-release': <no version>08:17
arnnnit doesn't do anything further after Version of 'sw-release': <no version>08:17
minrado you turn-on the device after connecting?08:18
arnnnminra, yes08:18
arnnnand n800 screen show white screen with nokia symbol08:18
arnnnand there is usb symbol at the top right of the screen08:18
minradunno... what is the command you use to invoke flasher?08:18
arnnnroot@1[knoppix]# /home/knoppix/Desktop/flasher-3.0 RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R08:18
arnnnflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)08:18
arnnnSuitable USB device not found, waiting08:18
arnnnUSB device found found at bus 001, device address 01508:19
arnnnFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130108:19
arnnnNOLO version 1.1.208:19
arnnnVersion of 'sw-release': <no version>08:19
arnnnthat's what happen...08:19
cesmananyone know if it is possible to disable wireless on the n800?08:27
cesmanit would be great to be able to use it on a plane...08:27
obrait is.08:31
obraclick the power button and pick 'offline mode'08:31
cesmanah, ok08:31
cesmanreading the nokie docs. it stated that one should use the n800 on a plane08:32
arnnncan I insert sd card while n800 is on ?08:32
arnnnthank you08:36
arnnnI'm rebooting back to windows now08:37
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minranot surprisingly08:37
konfoocesman: change connect automatically to none in control panel connectivity options?08:51
jtokashThis is very interesting (saw it posted on ringnokia).  Check out the flash demo.
konfoooh yeah i remember this.. there are some reviews on osnews08:59
konfooprolly have to search the archives.. couple mo ago08:59
konfoothey had some links to alternate input layouts as well09:00
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konfoophew finally got the vm working with xephyr and 3.009:44
konfooKnowledge_: bedtime09:44
jtokashkonfoo, great news!09:46
jtokash*that's great news09:47
konfoonod ;)09:47
jtokashdoes that mean it's ready for download?09:47
konfooyeah i just need to compress the image and shrink the virtual disks in the AM09:49
konfooill put it up for a few people to test before i release it09:50
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Jaffakonfoo: is it Maemo 2.1 or 3.0 based?09:55
Jaffa(Eclipse's licence is fully open source and redistributable btw)09:55
jtokashJaffa, it's 3.0 based09:57
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jtokashwhat's the best howto to use for getting up and running for maemo 3.0 dev on ubuntu?10:02
konfoothe readme that comes with the sdk10:02
konfooand google searches ;)10:02
jtokashI tried this morning, but ran into a bunch of error messages that were probably related to the fact that I was hopping around between different docs10:02
konfooyeah you want to use apophis r4 scratchbox10:03
konfoomost of the 'howtos' refer to the older version10:03
jtokashcool, that helps10:04
jtokashdid you do cpu transparency on your image?10:06
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konfoonot yet.. there are like zero docs on that. im going to back this up then attempt to add that :)10:09
konfoozero for 3.0/800 specific that is10:10
kulvecpu transp. with qemu is pretty easy10:10
kulvedoesn't that maemo-sdk-installer set it up automatically?10:10
konfoocould be the 3.0 version does10:11
konfooso far ive just checked the envs, packages, and xephyr connectivity and that all works fine10:11
kulveyeah, the 3.0. There were not installer scripts for earlier SKDs10:11
konfoo--cputransp=qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb2 yep its in there10:13
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jtokashkonfoo, when it says apt-get install <packages>, what packages should I install?10:33
jtokashI tried some of the deb file names mentioned in install.txt, but no dice10:33
konfooadd the apt repo, and pick the packages listed via cmdline after apt update, or using something like synaptic10:34
kulvemy sources.list after the installer:10:38
kulvedeb bora free non-free extras10:38
kulvedeb-src bora free non-free extras10:38
kulvedeb file:/home/kulve/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_3.0 bora explicit10:38
kulvethe binaries repo is made by the binary-installer, which installs about 75 binary-only packages per arch10:38
kulveactually it only creates the repo and the packages must be installed with "apt-get install maemo-explicit" or something10:39
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* Jaffa promises he did not bribe keesj to say :-D10:44
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jtokashthanks konfoo10:53
jtokashand kulve10:53
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jtokashsynaptic is much nicer than apt-get11:01
keesjJaffa, perhaps I should have sent it to the developers mailing list11:11
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guerbyhi, anyone with a stoaway sierra bluetooth keyboard and N800? it looks like the Fn key is mapped to the menu button by default, any way to change this?11:22
MDKshouldn't be mapped to menu button11:26
MDKat least it's not when using the su-8w keyboad11:28
p13i've got a stowaway and it's not mapped to menu on my 77011:32
p13i'd very much like alt+tab app switching11:33
p13i remeber a previous version of the bt plugin had it mapped that way11:33
p13i should see if i can add shortcuts to an rc somewhere11:33
p13btw morning c0ffee11:35
mgedminp13: the maemo wiki has the instructions for that11:39
mgedminthe shortcuts can be defined in ~/.matchbox/somefilenamethatIforgot11:39
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guerbyp13, I don't use the bt pluggin on the N800. I didn't try the same kbd on my N770, will do11:56
mgedminI clicked on that url and saw the window title:11:56
guerbymgedmin, thx I'll try to find that11:56
mgedmin"Nokia N800 Internet Tablet printer friendly version"11:56
mgedmin"does it have a parallel port then", I wondered11:57
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mgedmin"relies on the presumption that you have Wi-Fi access" ??? ever heard of Bluetooth and EDGE, folks?11:58
p13that's super expensive11:58
sxpertmgedmin, even more than that11:58
p13AND you'll need a bt enabled phone11:58
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mgedminI can get flat-rate EDGE access for about $30 per month11:59
p13you don't think that's a lot of money for occasional browsing at 14.4kbps ?12:00
mgedmingranted, that's only if you buy it for 12 months12:00
mgedminEDGE is more than 14.4kbps12:00
p13and even then there are bound to be quotas12:00
mgedminI occasionally see 20 kbytes per second12:00
mgedminthere are no quotas, but the terms of usage say "no downloading video or music"12:00
mgedminit is enough for an occasional svn up/svn commit or web browsing12:01
p13i think it's too expensive for occasional use12:01
p13if you are a hardcore traveller, then yes i'd say great12:01
p13even then it's expensive12:01
mgedminand, actually, my company pays my phone bill :)12:01
koen"Removable storage type-- None"12:02
koentypical cnet cluelesness12:02
p13maybe they were looking for a harddrive rack ?12:02
koengoing on about the missing spring in the sd slot and all12:02
p13so you have to pry it out ?12:02
koenaccording to cnet it isn't removable at all :)12:03
jtokashThe 770 canola repository has been down for the past several hours.  Does anyone know if there is a backup repo that can be used?12:03
mgedminheh, buy a N800 on amazon com for $399 and save $0.99!12:06
mgedminwhat a bargain12:06
mgedminor you can buy a used one and save $1.99!12:07
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guerbymgedmin, this is   I'm reading...12:18
mgedminyes, that's what I had in mind12:18
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guerbymgedmin, nothing I tried worked. I'll open a bugzilla12:34
mgedminare you talking about Alt-Tab window switching?12:35
mgedminI set up a config file like the one in the wiki, told matchbox to reload its configuration, and I could switch apps with Alt-tab on my usb keyboard12:35
guerbymgedmin, I tried12:39
guerby<Alt>k=!maemo-gtk-im-switch xim12:39
guerby<Alt>v=!maemo-gtk-im-switch osso-input-method12:39
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guerbyno effect, what is your line for alt-tab ?12:39
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mgedminjust a sec...12:41
mgedminof course12:41
mgedmindid you run matchbox-remote -k ?12:41
mgedminafter changing ~/.matchbox/kbdconfig ?12:42
guerbymgedmin, yep, the alt-tab works but not the two alt--k/v ...12:43
mgedminthese worked for me12:43
mgedminonce I disconnected my USB keyboard with maemo-gtk-im switched to xim...12:43
guerbymgedmin, even in command line gtk-im-switch does not work12:44
guerbyprobably something is disabled when the bt kbd is paired12:44
mgedmindo you have a 770 or n800?12:44
guerbymgedmin, both but here I play with N80012:44
mgedminmine is a 77012:45
mgedminI would not be surprised if N800 automatically switches to xim when you connect the bt keyboard12:45
guerbymgedmin, I'll try all that on my 770 at some point :)12:45
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Veggenhmm. know what I'd really like? Disable instead of delete in the handwriting recognition.13:16
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Veggenthat's the way it works.13:20
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* sbaturzio is away: Lunch time...13:51
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mokkiis there any reason to not format the mmc2 card using jffs2?14:01
c0ffeeis there any reason to do so?14:02
c0ffeei mean, if it does wear balancing itself14:02
mokkivfat does not support any unix filesystem rights. I was planning to create user accounts for my friends so they can also try to develop/test their programs on the device14:03
mgedminreason to not format the mmc card as something other than fat is that most devices that take mmc cards expect them to be fat14:03
mgedminif you do not intend to use the card elsewhere, feel free14:03
mgedminbut I am not sure you can use jffs214:03
mokkithe root device seems to be jffs2 so it should be in the kernel already14:04
mgedminjffs only works on MTD devices; is the mmc card one?14:04
mokkihmm. that I do not know14:04
mgedminyou could use ext214:04
c0ffeeor the beloved umsdos14:04
koenmemory card are blockdevices14:06
koenwith the exception of xD cards, that can be used as raw NAND chips14:07
c0ffeeyou can use jffs2 on blockdevices14:07
c0ffeeit's just a little clumsy14:07
koenc0ffee: no14:07
koenwedging in an emulation layer doesn't count as using14:08
mokkiok, so no need for jffs2. cat /proc/filesystems reveals that ext2 is not supported in the default kernel14:09
mgedminI think you can find ext2.ko somewhere under /initfs ...?14:10
mokkiso I can either: 1) partition the mmc card and give each user a separate partition to play in or 2) build a kernel module for ext214:10
mokkiah. I'll check14:10
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trenkasbaturzio: I would ban idiots with away message14:40
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guerbyany xkb expert around?15:01
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mgedmindo those exist in this universe?15:04
* mgedmin once spend a few days reading all the available documentation on xkb, but doesn't consider himself to be an expert15:04
guerbymgedmin, eh eh :) I'm beginning to read xkb doc, but so far no idea on what file to change and what tool to run15:05
mgedminwell, what is your goal?15:06
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guerbymgedmin, configure Fn key of the sierra keyboard so that it matches on N80015:08
mgedminmost keyboards I've seen treat Fn as a very special key15:09
mgedminwell, okay, that was on IBM thinkpads15:09
mgedminand the hardware handled all the Fn+x combinations15:09
mgedminyou want to figure out what keycode the Fn key sends (xev is useful)15:09
mgedminwell, "so that it maches" is a vague description15:10
guerbymgedmin, I've sent an email to maemo-dev15:10
guerbywith the keycodes15:10
mgedmindoes the X server on the N800 even have the XKB extension?15:10
guerbymgedmin, match mean the blue symbol on each key is what N800 understands15:11
guerbymgedmin, from 8Jan IRC comments yes (and the files are there on my N800)15:11
mgedmin is the canonical place to read about XKB15:16
mgedminxmodmap is usually easier, but somewhat less capable15:17
mgedminif you decide to go the xkb route, you may want to create a new file in /etc/X11/xkb/symbols15:17
guerbymgedmin, thx. I also found
guerbymgedmin, on N800 stuff is in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols15:18
mgedminthanks for the link15:19
mgedminthat article also links to, which I've seen before but haven't read, I think15:19
guerbymgedmin, yep15:20
guerbyUsage: hwkbd-reconfig [OPTION]15:23
guerby         --set-rate [DELAY] [INTERVAL]  Set the keyboard repeat15:23
guerby         --set-layout [MODEL] [LAYOUT]  Set the active layout15:23
guerby         --get-layout   Show the active layout15:23
guerby         --get-devices  List all the input devices15:23
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tbbfor what is that xkb only for hardware keyboards or can i customize also the software kb?15:35
mgedminI am pretty sure xkb configuration will not affect the on-screen virtual keyboard15:39
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guerbymgedmin, I believe on screen is described in .vkb files in usr/share/keyboards15:40
mgedminyes it is15:40
tbbmgedmin is it possible to create custom keys15:40
guerbymgedmin, no idea on how to change those files (editor?)15:41
mgedminthe vkb files are produced by gen_vkb utility that's installed in your scratchbox15:41
tbbi need a ctrl key :)15:41
mgedminthe source for that utility is an xml file15:41
guerbymgedmin, I've no scratchbox :)15:41
mgedminthe format of the xml is described (somewhat incompletely) in maemo 3.0 api docs15:41
mgedminthe XML sources for all the standard VKB files are not available and will not be available15:42
mgedminbecause *gasp* someone other than Nokia would then suddenly able to produce competing tablets!!!!!1!15:42
* mgedmin hates all lawyers15:42
tbbso theres no way  right?15:42
mgedmintbb: 'ctrl' key would be difficult to implements15:42
mgedminyou cannot define one in the .vkb file15:43
guerbytbb, vncviewer has a special menu where you can press the ctrl key15:43
tbbi hate it on xterm go over the menue send ctrl key15:43
mgedminyeah, xterm's method sucks15:43
mgedminI wish xterm had something like vncviewer15:43
mgedminbut I hate to take away two or three good lines of text just to add a toolbar15:44
* keesj just discovered how many libs are available to python ( on the pc that is )15:47
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wumpusare there any sources that use the dsp stuff in /sys/devices/platform/dsp ?15:52
wumpusI found the dsp gateway spec for linux/omap but no examples yet15:52
Andy80Where can I find libenca0 ?15:54
mgedminAndy80: FBReader's repository has it15:54
Andy80I added it but if i try to install fbreader it tells me it cannot find that lib15:55
mgedmin still exists15:57
tbbany one else got this, if the n800 goes to dimmed mode, it blinks a little bit ?15:58
Andy80Yes but catalog gives me that error anyway15:58
keesjis the n800 still 16 bpp?16:00
mgedminafaik yes16:01
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kulvetbb: do you have the charger connected?16:11
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kulvetbb: so yes, it's not only your device that blinks when dimmed and connected to charger16:13
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Andy80When the usb cable is connected, is the battery recharged?16:15
Andy80Ok thanks16:16
wumpusthanks kulve16:17
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Andy80I've 2.2006.39-14 version of os. Is this mistral or scirocco?16:21
kulvescirocco I think16:23
Andy80Thanks again16:25
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kulveAndy80: actually I'm not sure..16:28
kulvecheck from there16:29
Molagihmm is it possible to get bigger text in xchat16:33
Molagiits so small i can hardly read i16:33
Andy80From menu, settings, preferences16:34
Andy80I set it to 12 :)16:35
Molagiis it able to change the color also?16:36
tbbwhat is the max cap. for rsmmc card for n80016:40
tbband the other card holder16:40
kulve2g is the official limit I think16:40
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kulvetbb: and they are both full sized16:45
tbboh usefull thread16:46
Andy80How can I set the catalog to install apps on mmc and not n770 memory?16:47
kulveAndy80: do you have a whole repo on the mmc or just a single deb?16:48
mgedminI think he wants to install apps *into* the mmc card16:48
Andy80Uhm? Yes mgedmin16:48
mgedminit is possible to do, but I would not recommend it16:49
mgedminactually, possible might be too strong a word...16:49
Andy80but... So the mmc what is used for?16:49
mgedminpictures, music, e-books, movies16:49
Andy80On usual nokia phone it's possible16:50
Andy80Ok, it doesn't matter then...16:51
kulveI think the 256M flash is quite much for the apps16:51
mgedminn770 is not a usual phone :)16:51
mgedminkulve: the 770 has ~64 megs free in /16:51
Andy80The 770 has not has 12816:51
mgedminI've nearly run out16:51
kulvemgedmin: yep16:51
Andy80Even less :p16:51
Andy80At least I can use mmc for swap file16:53
Andy80Is it possible to auto-download the list of shoutcast radio?16:58
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* Zer0Her0_ wonders if the guy working on the vmware image is done by any chance17:56
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konfoozero: almost :)18:12
konfooim adding eclipse and pydev to it now18:12
Zer0Her0_i couldn't remember your name, knew it started with k. heh18:16
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Zmanuhow can i know what release i got in my 770 ?19:16
Zmanubecause i try to install osso-xterm, i get .deb and try to install it, but i have an error19:17
Zmanu"not possible to install this application" nothing more19:17
dottedmagZmanu: control panel -> device -> about product -> version19:21
Zmanudottedmag: thanks19:24
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arnnnhas anyone managed to install evince on n800?19:24
Zmanui have install aircrack to test it, but how can i run it ? with xterm but i can't install osso-xterm on it19:26
Zmanuis someone have a solution :)19:26
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* mgedmin does not have an n800 (yet)19:27
dottedmagZmanu: just install xterm from the maemo-hackers repository.19:27
Zmanudoesn't work19:27
mgedminZmanu: if you open the log from the Tools menu in the app installer, does it tell you why it couldn't install xterm?19:27
gpdapparently the maemo-hackers xterm is 'not so good'19:28
mgedminworks for me *shrug*19:29
mgedminstarts up the term in ~, which is why I use it19:29
mgedmindoesn't run my .profile :(19:29
gpdis .profile the place to put alias stuff?19:30
gpdis ash 'Almquist Shell' - I can't find a manual19:31
mgedminash is one of the utilities provided by busybox19:31
gpdah -- it all becomes clear!19:32
keesjgpd, I have it in .baserc19:32
keesj[sbox-SDK_PC: ~] > cat .bashrc19:32
keesjunalias ls19:32
keesjexport DISPLAY=:219:32
Zmanui don't have wifi yet, and i get this in log it don't find file mistral/user/ Packages[/var/lib/apt/lists/]19:32
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gpdkeesj: i tried .bashrc on the N800 - but no joy so far -- does it work for you outside the scratchbox?19:45
gpdalso - any idea how to source a file like that?  . .bashrc doesn't work and neither does source .bashrc19:46
mgedminsource ~/.bashrc19:47
mgedminash's source looks in $PATH rather than in .19:47
arnnnI wonder why doesn't nokia provide xterm from the start...19:47
mgedminalso, it would be misleading to name your file .bashrc, if you intend to use it from ash19:48
gpdmgedmin: so what gets run on login?19:48
mgedminarnnn: because they target mass-consumers rather than geeks?19:48
mgedmingpd: you get a login prompt on your 770? :)19:48
dottedmagmmm. /me strace'd ash. It does not look to read any rc-file19:48
mgedminthere's /etc/profile19:48
gpdok source ~/.bashrc works :)19:49
arnnnmgedmin, but isn't nokia want to have a lot of open source developer build application for them?19:49
mgedminif I create a ~/.profile, it is run when I ssh into it19:49
mgedminarnnn: open source developers are usually capable of installing xterm all by themselves19:49
gpdmgedmin: great -- all working now - thanks19:49
* dottedmag was wrong. ash --login reads '.profile'19:50
arnnnmgedmin, it be nice to have nokia help by providing xterm at least19:50
mgedminarnnn: xterm is provided in repository.maemo.org19:50
mgedminso in theory all you need to do is add that repository in your app manager and then install xterm19:50
gpdarnnn: if you enable the 'red pill' you can install it from application manager with no changes to N80019:50
mgedminyou do not need to enable red pill mode to install xterm!19:51
mgedminat least I didn't19:51
mgedminyou do need red pill if you want to install openssh19:51
arnnnmgedmin, so the xterm on work for n800 ?19:51
mgedminthat's a very good question19:51
mgedminI do not know19:51
mgedminI have heard that various people had various problems with some version of xterm, but I wasn't following that quickly19:52
gpdthe one i installed from works fine - the rumour is that the upgrade to the hackers one is busted19:52
mgedminif there's an xterm in's 'bora' distribution, and it doesn't work, then Boo! to nokia19:52
arnnngpd, which one do you have ? the one from repository or the hacker's ?19:53
inzThe maemo-hackers version has some minor annoyances.19:56
arnnninz, the one from repository work fine ?19:56
inzarnnn, yeah19:56
inzI've yet to solve the im issues in N800/bora19:58
inzBut it works mostly19:58
arnnnwhat's im ?19:58
inzinput method19:58
arnnnwhat's the problem with input method ?19:59
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arnnnis it possible to make n800 screen to 'never auto dim out' ?20:16
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inzarnnn, probably /system/osso/dsm/display/display_dim_timeout20:24
inzarnnn, you also should change the display_blank_timeout20:25
inzIf 0 doesn't seem to work, make the value big 'nuff20:25
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arnnninz, so it's gconftool -t int -s /system/osso/dsm/display/display_dim_timeout 999920:25
inzand the same for _blank_20:26
arnnnoh ok20:26
arnnnthanks I will try that20:27
inz9999 is less than 3 hours, so if that's too short, you can make it bigger20:27
inzThe limit is probably about 2^31-120:27
inzIIRC gconf uses signed 32 bit integers20:27
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gpdhmm.. this key repeat stuff is starting to get annoying on the BT sierra :(20:30
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Disconnectgpd: happens on the stowaway too, its a maemo problem20:30
DisconnectSOMETIMES its a keyboard problem (batteries going flat seems to cause it also, and it did it on the 770) but it happens to me all the time - kb too close, kb too far, etc20:31
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gpdDisconnect: yes - because it doesn't happen when i pair to this Mac laptop.20:31
Disconnectexactly - i paired to my g5 rather than a laptop, but same test :)20:31
Disconnectused it for a couple of days20:32
konfooanyone know where the lock file resides for scratchbox?20:32
konfoois it in /tmp?20:32
gpdDisconnect: do you also experience the ability to type faster that the screen update!?20:33
Disconnectoccasionally, depends on what i'm doing. also, try hitting backspace in a form entry on opera - half the time (or more) it goes to the prev page20:34
Disconnectnot so useful :(20:35
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gpdindeed.  done that.  also still struggling with the Fn key -- xkb is not trivial to setup afaik - without Fn i cannot use Esc20:35
* Disconnect is happy his fn key works inside the keyboard :) 20:37
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suihkulokkigpd, Disconnect, have you tried your BT keyboards with desktop linux?20:39
Disconnectno but i could, lemme see if i can find it :)20:40
Disconnectlooking for anything in particular?20:40
minragpd - i saw key repeats with a bad connection on the bt stowaway20:41
minraand low batts20:41
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Disconnecthmm. does kbluetooth grok keyboards or do I need to argue with it?20:41
guerbyDisconnect, how did you do to get Fn working on a stoaway/N800 ?20:42
Disconnectit 'just worked' .. set it to the default kb mapping20:42
guerbyN800 or N770?20:42
guerbyDisconnect, and is it a sierra model?20:43
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Disconnectguerby: 770 needed the bluetooth module (and it had a stowaway mapping iirc, but it didn't work as well as the default) n800 just worked fine, even many of the same shortcuts (fn-d iirc is home, etc. never remember them to use them, but they work ;) ..)20:44
guerbyDisconnect, ok, is your bt model a sierra ? (fold in four)20:44
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Disconnectxtbt01, folds in half20:45
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guerbyDisconnect, ah okay20:45
Disconnectok its not proving simple to get kde talking to the keyboard. still interested in how it behaves on linux?20:47
Disconnectcuz if so, well, sux2bu (kidding, i'll get it hooked up if its helpful)20:47
konfoook im compressing this maemo 3.0 vmware applicance.. anyone want to try torrenting it from me?20:51
konfooif you can seed..20:51
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kenderanyone have had problems with radio stream in N800?21:21
keesjkender, your boot problem was solved?21:21
kendermine, with accuradio default stream says "No multimedia stream found in that direction"21:21
kenderyes keesj :D21:21
tkohmm, has openmoko released anything concrete yet? I just noticed they have more traffic in the mailing list than maemo-developers this month21:22
kenderkeesj, the busybox update was the problem21:22
keesjI hear so many scarring questions on irc :p21:22
keesjtko, see slashdot21:22
kenderis it fixed?21:22
tkokeesj, yes, that's what I read21:23
keesjkender, was that a question to me?21:23
tkooh well, I suppose if iphone had a mailing list it would be flooding by now21:23
kenderkeesj, if you know the answer yes :)21:24
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keesjmaemo developer was quite busy the last two weeks21:24
kenderI see21:24
kenderany idea about mediaplayer?21:24
keesjkender, I don't even know the question, and for sure not the answer21:24
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tkoI just compared the number of total messages this month, which you conveniently see in the archives page21:25
koentko: nothing release yet21:26
koentko: source will be released in ~3 weeks21:26
tko :)21:28
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nealI got Failed to fetch when trying to install clinkc-av and mediastreamer21:33
nealthis is with OS2006.221:33
nealon which the pop up keyboard is also broken21:34
nealoften appearing only half on the screen21:34
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rincewind1013is there a trick to removing the a sd card in the 2nd memory slot in the n800, the one under the stand21:38
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mgedminuse a bigger hammer21:39
rincewind1013that doesnt help21:40
rincewind1013shouldnt it just pop out when you push on it21:40
mgedminsomebody posted a N800 review on CNET21:41
mgedminthat article said there's no internal string21:41
mgedminso you're supposed to pull the card out21:41
mgedminwhich is difficult if your fingernails are short21:41
rincewind1013yea i see a tiny indentation21:41
c0ffeeanother problem that time fixes :)21:42
c0ffeere btw21:42
rincewind1013i'll have to find a tiny screwdriver21:42
* mgedmin has a USB sd card reader21:42
* mgedmin once put his RS-MMC card in it and had a fun time pulling it out21:42
inzmgedmin, done that too, the "extender" didn't stick to the rs part21:43
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mgedminhey, if the media player supports extended mp3 files, why does it reread ID3 tags each and every time I start it, making the playback jerky for a few minutes?21:55
nealthere is a serious lack of QA occuring somewhere21:55
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tkokoen, how could I have forgotten that :)21:55
tkoneal, ouch. can you please file a bug so that we can publically humiliate the guilty? :)21:55
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nealI can't believe I thought this was an open platform21:58
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nealI'll report bugs again when you 1) actually adhere to upstream APIs as you claim and 2) actually make an open platform22:07
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c0ffeehas somebody experience with win ce development?22:24
c0ffeei wonder whether you can just slap a windows app on windows ce, or whether you have to tailor the gui similar to gtk vs. hildon22:25
c0ffeefrom point of view of api22:25
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dwdc0ffee: I vaguely recall there's some API considerations.22:26
dwdc0ffee: It's been a while since I looked, but I think there's a lot of missing API, and a few changes and additions.22:27
c0ffeehum hum22:27
c0ffeesince hildonizing apps appears a bit clumsy to me22:27
c0ffeealthough i can understand that the different dpi values put a lot of restrictions on the possible gui design22:28
dwdc0ffee: Hildonizing an existing app probably is, a bit. But I really feel that any "good" Maemo app is going to have a rewritten UI anyway, and the reusable parts can stay from a GTK+ app.22:28
tkotoolbar and menu differences are pretty big as well22:29
keesjI think that dropping desktop apps is difficult because of the screen and gui consideration22:29
tkoI would like to have unmodified GtkWindow fit in more nicely, but that's not exactly a priority :-/22:29
keesjJaffa, ?22:29
tkoor even X windows22:29
c0ffeeanother topic22:30
c0ffeewhat about gazpacho22:30
tkoso if someone would be interested in hacking around gtk, matchbox and theming, it would be great22:30
dwdtko: Except that top-level windows are pretty much always going to be changed to optimize the UI.22:30
c0ffeethe current version of gazpacho requires gtk+2.8 or better22:30
tkoI'm fairly sure one could even theme GtkMenubar to better fit the style..22:30
c0ffeeany chance that such gtk versions will be used soon for hildon?22:31
tkodwd, sure, but the less you're *required* to do, the better, IMO22:31
tkoc0ffee, working on it..22:31
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c0ffeeprobably it would be enough to have 2.8 support in the scratchbox22:31
c0ffeeas you could use the generated xml file on older gtk as well22:32
tkoc0ffee, oh, didn't think of that22:32
tkoc0ffee, poke ferulo about gazpacho, when he appears22:33
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dwdtko: I think if GTK+ apps "just ran", then you'd probably end up with a lot of apps which were useful to the likes of me and thee, but naff all use to the majority of people.22:33
c0ffeeand the hildon-glade package that is in svn would be a nice-to-have feature as well, so you're not forced to stick with python22:33
tkodwd, well, we already have people claim command line and plain gtk apps as 'end user ready' so I don't see how it could be much worse :)22:35
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wasabi_c0ffee: Depends on the device you're running WinCE on.22:36
wasabi_You can get WinCE for general purpose x86 computers, and you can usually run some apps on them, depending on what they do.22:36
wasabi_If you're using a version of WinCE customized for a particular device, your mileage may vary.22:37
wasabi_Also, WinCE is pretty old now I think.22:37
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c0ffeethere's a 2005 or so version22:37
tkovista embedded? :)22:37
wasabi_There's Windows Embedded, Windows for Smartphones, Windows Mobile and whatever22:38
wasabi_oh and a few versions of each of those, one called PocketPC22:38
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c0ffeei just got my info from the linux sync software thingy22:40
c0ffeeand my navman icn530 f.e. is identified as windows mobile 3.022:41
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konfooaargh i need a torrent tracker22:57
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