IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-01-17

trenkakender: is it 10PM in Spain ?00:01
kendertrenka, 11 PM exactly00:01
trenkaI guess you cannot buy beer already :)00:01
kendertrenka, I'm thinking in going in to finland in holidays, maybe sauna will be a good choice :P00:02
kendertrenka, here yes, we can drink at the time that we want :P00:03
* nomis is always surprised when noticing that Spain is the same timezone as the rest of the continental europe. Despite being as west as great britain.00:03
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c0ffeejhe, did ville react already? or any other news? :)00:04
kendernomis, yes is surprising00:04
danielsc0ffee: it's 9:04am in sydney00:04
c0ffeeis jhe in sydney as well?00:05
trenkadaniels: you get up at 6AM ?00:05
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kendertrenka, well, good night, see you tomorrow :)00:05
c0ffeeman, you guys are hidden all over the planet00:06
jhec0ffee: nope, haven't heard from ville yet, and no I'm not in sydney00:06
kenderbye guys00:06
c0ffeeah, thx anyway :)00:06
danielstrenka: no, i went to bed at 6am, and woke up at 8:30 ... this could be fun00:06
danielsc0ffee: conference season00:06
lle2daniels: ah, well, no way for me to know that :P00:06
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danielslle2: #maemo != /msg00:06
lle2daniels: I know, but I'm not going to register00:07
danielslle2: ah, makes sense00:07
trenkalle2: did you see the discussion?00:07
lle2trenka: yeah, seems I'm obsolete ;P00:07
c0ffeestrange conferences you have there00:08
c0ffeehere the deadlines for the next batch of conferences is in about two weeks00:08
c0ffeeand conferences are always during holiday season :/00:08
danielsc0ffee: well, is on in sydney at the moment, and there's also the x developers' conference in about two or three weeks.  can't remember when the others are, but pretty sure there's a few.00:09
c0ffeejust kidding00:09
c0ffeei've never been at such conferences00:09
c0ffeei'm going to researchs cons if any00:10
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* gpd wonders if any of the 'lightweight' linux distributions based on debian might provide suitable source .debs for building on scratchbox00:19
gpdwe should put maemo on:
koengpd: maemo isn't a distribution, IT200x is00:22
koen(according to devesh)00:22
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danielsmaemo is a platform for building distributions such as internet tablet os00:22
gpdsorry -- never had quite worked out all those semantics00:22
gpdso what name is the equivalent of 'Debian' - or 'Fedora' ?00:23
danielsi don't think anyone really has ;)00:23
danielsinternet tablet os00:23
gpdok - fair enough00:24
danielswell, i guess debian in particular is pretty much a platform for derivatives itself.  so both maemo and itos, depending on your point of view. ;)00:24
gpddaniels: so would you consider trying deb sources from other distros for building? or should i stick to debian only?00:24
gpdsometimes the even the debian stuff seems a little heavy -- eg. --with-mysql etc00:25
danielsgpd: which distros? my answer depends on which distro it is, because the quality obviously varies (ubuntu generally good, linspire/xandros/etc spectacularly poor)00:25
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danielssure, but you can modify that. :)00:25
memnochi, just wondering anyone tried making calls via SIP using the googletalk app?00:25
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gpdi can - but if someone has already done it -- say in damn small (i don't think they use debs for the main) then worth looking at what they did00:26
Fatalmemnoc: the googletalk app does just that, googletalk00:26
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memnocFatal, but googletalk supports SIP00:26
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memnocI can do it using the windows client, get immediately cutoff using the client on the 80000:27
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|tbb|ive tried gtalk with camera with no luck just a few minutes ago00:28
memnocI had it work with someone in here the other night00:28
memnocit was guerby iirc00:29
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gpddaniels: how about Stem Desktop -- A hybrid, which uses lightest packages from Debian repository together with few home grown deb packages to build desktop00:30
danielsgpd: i've never heard of it00:30
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gpd <- new to me too00:31
chxdoes KDE run on N800 :) ?00:35
jtokash2Is there way to easily just play all the audio files in a particular folder with the built in media player?00:37
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gpdchx: heh -- no it is tablet specific window manager thingy called hildon00:38
jtokashfor instance, I want to play all my podcasts00:38
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chxgpd: obviously I was joking. It's miracle enough to start a PHP enabled webserver. KDE would run with all the speed of a snail in leg irons.00:38
Takpff, snails don't even have legs00:39
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chxTak: try dropping leg irons on a snail and watch its speed afterwards...00:39
chx(albeit this reminds me of what is the air speed velocity of a sparrow carrying a coconut...)00:42
gpdchx: you should develop Python - not PHP ;)00:42
* gpd gives up on lightweight distros - nothing happening there00:43
chxgpd: any day if you find me a community to match Drupal (not to mention my well paid dayjob which is also Drupal based)00:43
chxgpd: I have a Python book from Apress lying besides my bed -- I am ready to start :)00:44
gpdchx: python is great -- I am never going back to PERL00:44
gpdyou will learn it in about a day i predict!00:44
chxyup I browsed the book and it seemed trivial00:44
chxthese langues are all the same00:45
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gpdit is a shame that Rails gets all the attention and not the python equivalent00:45
chxlearning Prolog was more of a challenge. But , I was only 15...00:45
chxall the attention? what attention? all hype, zero marketshare?00:46
gpdThere is Django for python -- isn't that suppoesd to be Rails-esque?00:46
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chxthe problem with Ruby on Rails is Ruby -- at the end of the day, business logic needs to be written. And where can you find a decent Ruby programmer? A whole team? And what they will cost? Come on.00:48
lle2just outsource it00:48
chxI won't go into this debate. Surely there are great Indian software teams just I have not had the luck to met them.00:49
c0ffeeeven better, promise a pack of hardware and let other people do it00:50
c0ffeeoh wait, that's not a new idea...00:50
|tbb|someone intrested in  how to import  kismet logs into navicore?00:51
lle2better yet, promise a possibility of a discount on a piece of hw and let others do it00:51
lle2I'm hitting a coders block with sb2 :(00:52
gpdso my iPod decides to die yesterday - now I am Apple and Microsoft free -- just need to find a suitable ipod replacement00:52
c0ffeeiriver or what was is called is said to be good00:53
|tbb|i audio is good as mp3 player00:53
c0ffeeor use your 77000:54
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gpddon't want to waste battery of N800 on mp3 - :]00:54
chxkismet runs on the tablet??????00:54
chxfree wifi everywhere! :D00:55
c0ffeethe dns-tunnel client runs on my 770 as well :)00:55
pahartikgpd: me neither, but luckily it plays AAC content00:55
c0ffeeeven more free wifi00:55
|tbb|the more power the n8 device has the shorter the battery00:55
|tbb|thats bad00:55
chxc0ffee: dns-tunnel? is that something like pingtunnel?00:56
chxc0ffee: and where is the other end of the tunnel?00:56
c0ffeeyeah, just over dns00:56
c0ffeea modified dns server00:56
c0ffeemost public wlans which require authorization still allow dns traffic prior to login00:56
gpdthose pocket battery packs look tempting - some have 5-10x battery life of tablet and quite small - could stash in back pocket and use N800 after all00:57
c0ffeenstx it's called00:57
gpdnobody has put kismet on the OS2k7 page - but presumably it works?00:58
c0ffeemaybe nobody tested00:58
c0ffeemaybe it doesn't work and the maintainer just doesn't have a 80000:59
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chxc0ffee: so, you still need your own server :(01:00
c0ffeebut that's not the problem01:01
gpdwow:  Use Mac or Linux? No problem!! iAUDIO 6 is available to be used on Mac or Linux OS.01:03
chxc0ffee: no? I do not readily own servers...01:05
c0ffeeyou can buy a domainname for a few $/year01:05
c0ffeeand obviously you're connected to the inet01:05
gpdatla: classic :)01:05
c0ffeevoila, a tunnel server01:05
atlabtw. even if it is a bit early01:06
atlais there any info if there will be a n800 followup?01:06
chxc0ffee: you mean, you tunnel via your desktop...? and if you travel for a month, you run your machine for a month unattended...?01:06
c0ffeechx, it's not really a desktop, it's a soekris box01:07
c0ffeesome headless barebone thing01:07
c0ffeealso handles my mails etc01:07
chxi see01:07
c0ffeei fear it has less ressources than the n800 :)01:08
|tbb|so the iphone doesnt cooke coffee, i ever know it01:08
gpdiAUDIO X5 looks tempting01:10
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gpdi presume there is no way you could hook up an HDD player to the N800 to provide USB Mass storage?01:12
atlano usb connector?01:12
* pahartik gets confused by threads or some class inheritance issue and gives up on writing application for Maemo01:12
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memnocanyone using Rhapsody's upnp service with media streamer?01:14
gpdmemnoc: no - but gmediaserver on ubuntu worked for me01:14
memnocwell other upnp servers work as does rhapsody01:15
memnocbut rhapsody also streams things it doesn't have locally, that isn't working for me01:15
memnocother non "made for rhapsody" devices work with that feature01:16
memnocmedia streamer isn't handling well, just returns a file not found error01:16
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memnocthe internet call beta, is that suppossed to be working?01:25
chxgpd: why there is no way...? you just need to hook one through a pwoered usb hub01:26
|tbb|not for me :/01:26
memnocyeah, can't activate the account01:27
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gpdchx: i don't know if the tablet os would allow you to mount devices like that -- maybe it does?01:27
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gpd <-- external storage on n77001:29
|tbb|memnoc i think it is still alpha cause the gtalk with webcam doesnt work well either :/01:29
gpdWhile the Nokia 770 officially only supports usb peripheral mode01:29
memnoctbb, yeah, it did work for me01:29
memnocwhat's a bit confusing is in the userguide when they explain an "internet call" and supporting VoIP, from what I can tell it really just uses gtalk right now01:30
memnocmaybe I'm missing something but if you want to do a SIP call you need either Gizmo or gtalk2voip, which I can't get working01:30
gpdPlugging my Digital SLR into the N800 would also be nice -- massive screen for preview of shots01:32
memnocyour SLR have sd or compact flash?01:33
gpdcompact flash01:34
|tbb|for gizmo there is a new client available01:34
memnocoh, can't even don't the pics off01:34
chxwas there ever a DSLR cam with SD card??01:34
gpdchx:  i think the pentax *ist maybe01:34
memnocthe MarkII has sd and cf01:34
memnocer the highend Canon one01:34
chxhmm Nikon D50 too01:35
* chx stands corrected01:35
memnocmy 30D is cf01:35
memnoctbb, my gizmo problems are network related not n80001:35
chxlet's say then most DSLRs are CF01:35
memnochave to try on my neighbors open wifi01:35
memnocheh, yep01:36
|tbb|oh nice just was trying to run a google video, now the n8 reboots01:36
|tbb|feels like im back on windowz01:36
memnocbut I tried making a SIP call from gtalk through the gtalk 'service' account and it dials then immediately disconnects, was hoping that was working01:37
gpdi'm reading a page about using the flasher to enable usb host mode -- anyone know if that would still work with N800?01:37
|tbb|is it possible to make non resizeable applets to resizeable applets?01:39
s-ndh-cwhy is it that if i try to open a website in the standard browser this connection manager automaticaly connects to my wlan but if i open a page in minimo for example it doesnt?01:40
s-ndh-cis some way to talk to this connectionmanager thing from code?01:40
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gpd <- better01:42
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|tbb|how can i run a script as root user if im not allready in root mode01:48
memnocmake it setuid root01:49
memnocyou will need to become root to set those permissions though01:49
|tbb|how to create a script, if im not familar with vi01:50
memnocif you don't want to use vi, you a text editor on the 80001:51
memnocyou don't have to, but it's neater if you specify the first line as the interpreter/shell you want to use like #!/bin/sh01:53
memnocset the permissions from the shell, so for setuid root, you would wan chmod 4755 <script>01:53
memnocas root01:53
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|tbb|one more question where to setup that my last inputs in console will more then less 3 as now?01:56
chxmemnoc:  if you don't want to use vi, you a text editor on the 800 -- care to elaborate a bit?01:58
memnocchx, there are openoffice type apps on the 800 right?01:59
memnoclike simple text editors02:00
memnocI would try one of them, otherwise yo could use notepad, and create the file then upload via winscp02:00
chxmemnoc: ah. abiword is being ported I hear.I thought there could be other simple editors... nano, anyone?02:00
chxthis place is a Microsoft free zone since 2004 fall02:00
memnochave they ported emacs to the 800 yet? ;)02:01
chx_but of course_02:01
memnocheck, wouldn't even need a windows manager then, just emaice and screen :)02:01
Fatali heard there was some effort to port the n800 to emacs though02:01
sp3000er, those are window managers02:01
chxthis would be worthy if anyone would understand it... I am in tears from laughter.02:02
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* AndyCap wants to be freed from windows managers as well02:08
|tbb|the note editor makes my created script to an html file, pfff02:08
myrenwtf is wrong with those assholes at compusa02:14
myrenadd the fucking n800 to your god damned web site fuckers02:14
myrenso i can track inventory02:14
myrenthese brick & mortar chains are just stupendously amazing.  80% of the time i walk out of the store empty handed and disgusted.02:15
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|tbb|i was ever thinking echo anything >> will put anything as text into blah.sh02:20
|tbb|am i wrong02:20
Molagihow do i get the subtitles working with mencoder?02:20
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Molagiim using the nokia 770 video converter02:21
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Molagicant get the subtitles working02:24
Molagidoes it only support .srt subs?02:26
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TakMolagi: did you try the -sub argument?02:39
Molagihmm no02:40
Molagihow do i try it02:40
memnoctbb, that'll work02:40
Takmencoder -sub somesubfile02:41
Tak(and of course the rest of your arguments)02:41
Molagiis there some console02:41
Molagibecause im using that windows version of nokia 770 video convertor ;D02:41
TakI misunderstood; I thought you were actually using mencoder02:41
Takin that case, I have no idea :-/02:41
Molagigotta download the real mencoder then02:42
|tbb|setting chmod 4755  as root user , s02:44
|tbb|doesnt help to let me run the script with root priviliges02:44
memnocwhat does the script do?02:45
memnocI haven't looked, does the OS have sudo?02:45
|tbb|sudo gainroot , i have installed becomeroot package02:51
memnocoh, duh02:52
memnocsorry, actually easiet would be to run your cmd via sudo02:53
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ssvbMolagi: if you use mplayer to watch video on Nokia 770, you can just put subtitles file to mmc card near the video and it should be supported02:55
ssvbMolagi: subtitles file should have the same name as video except for extension02:56
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gpd <-- USB mini 5 male to type a female adapter (gpd bookmark)03:29
gpdgoogle keywords: universal external battery03:32
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gpdis it trivial to connect two tablets directly to each other via wifi? Zune style?04:01
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s-ndh-cis there some way to simulate the up/down/left/right keys?04:03
s-ndh-clike using up/down for shell history04:03
gpdcan't you just use the d-pad?04:04
s-ndh-ci never tried04:04
gpdup and down are history in xterm for me04:04
s-ndh-ciam stupid04:04
gpddude -- this thing is *good*04:04
s-ndh-cthat realy works04:04
gpdi keep thinking i've caught it out -- but then it is right there staring me in the face :)04:05
gpdthe escape key is also handy -- it is 'back' in the fullscreen browser04:05
s-ndh-cbut i screwed my ssh server04:07
s-ndh-chave to figure out whats went wrong there04:08
s-ndh-coh, i just rebooted and now it works again04:09
s-ndh-cerr lol04:09
s-ndh-ci realy like the 77004:10
* gpd hopes sierra bt keyboard awaits at home 04:10
s-ndh-cyeah something like that would be nice04:10
s-ndh-cusing this virtual keyboard thing sucks04:11
gpdyeah -- i wonder how the iPhone people will like it -- maybe there will be a backlash04:11
* gpd glares at pile of dead iPods sitting on desk04:11
s-ndh-cnever had one04:12
gpdwhat instead?04:12
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s-ndh-ccreative zen touch, but that thing sucks as it is not recognized as a blockdevice, it uses some strange closed source protocol for communication with the computer04:14
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gpdyeah - that sucks - and if I can get RockBox on a 30G Video I would be happy04:19
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gpdeitherway it would be very cool to use the iPod as an external HDD for the N80004:22
gpdalthough if they really have got Linux running on the Zune - then you could in theory use that as a Wifi Mountable drive -- freaky04:23
* gpd blathers into the void04:23
s-ndh-csound cool04:23
s-ndh-cnow i just have to find an easy way for mounting unmounting my nfs music share04:25
gpdhave you tried mpd?04:26
gpdthat negates the need to do that04:26
gpdor gmediaserver04:26
gpddepends what you want to do04:26
s-ndh-cwhats that04:26
s-ndh-cthe music is on a fileserver04:26
s-ndh-cthis nfs share04:26
gpdlocal fileserver?04:26
s-ndh-cit is inanother room and not connected to my stereo04:27
gpdyou can use gmediaserver if you want to stream music /to/ your nokia and plug your nokia into a stereo04:27
gpdjust run gmediaserver /path/to/music04:27
s-ndh-csounds great04:28
gpdthen go to the nokia media streamer on the tablet04:28
gpd[i assume that is available for 770 too]04:28
s-ndh-cwill look for that04:28
gpdapt-get install gmediaserver for me (ubuntu edgy)04:28
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cesmanhello hello04:41
* cesman can now access the Internet w/ his phone!04:41
* cesman is happy w/ his purchase of the N80004:42
gpdcesman: nice work04:43
gpdbtw -- i am booked into SCALE -- thanks for the heads up04:43
cesmansee u there04:45
* gpd senses that cesman is using the virtual keyboard... 04:47
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cesmannow, all I have to do is install maemo mapper!05:03
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gpdcesman: you might need the patched version05:03
cesmana friend is going to let me you her gps receiver05:03
cesmanif I like it, I'll get a one05:03
djbclarkIs there any way to force the 800 to show what it is doing on bootup (in glorious text)? My device is deciding to blink "Nokia" at me contnuously at the moment.05:04
gpdwhat make / model?05:04
cesmangpd: me?05:04
gpdcesman: yes the bt gps05:04
cesmanher's is a garmin05:05
cesmanI'll have to do some research on the one I'd get05:05
gpddjbclark: try booting without sd cards05:05
cesmanI need to check my irc log05:05
cesmansomeone recommended one the other day05:05
cesmanthink I bookmarked it...05:05
gpdcesman: presumably you can't just plug a regular garmin etrex into the usb port on a tablet -- peripheral mode v. host again..05:05
cesmanno, bluetooth05:06
gpd <-- i see05:06
cesmanthe one I was looking at is about $90.0005:07
djbclarkgpd: no dice. I suppose I could go try reflashing again without any SD card...05:07
gpdi already have a garmin etrex color -- so another $90 is probably excessive05:08
gpddjbclark: probably flashing is only option if you can't boot -- but you could wait for better answers from others05:08
djbclarkgpd: I did do the flashing already, but that was with a SD card installed... If it matters, the problem started after the reboot from a restore from SD card.05:10
* djbclark goes to reflash again05:10
gpdcesman: the garmin one is only $100 from other sources05:12
gpdalthough i am not a garmin fanboy - their maps are /expensive/05:13
cesmanif I like what I see w/ maemo mapper, I'll stick w/ the i-blue05:14
cesmanthat is the same model, the developer uses05:14
gpddo you have the patched maemo mapper for n800?05:14
cesmanI have not installed it yet05:15
cesmanI'm going to upgrade to latest OS 200705:15
cesmanthen install05:15
cesman1.3.4 is out05:16
gpdah - ok05:16
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* djbclark tried reflashing from Windows with the standard image and GNU/Linux with the Developer's image, and is still getting the Nokia "flashing screen of death" :-(05:55
djbclark--set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset argument to flasher seems to have worked06:05
* gpd bookmarks flasher rescue argument06:16
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cesmanflash was successful!06:27
* gpd finds zoom button in maemo mapper! 06:29
gpdcesman: i now need a bluetooth gps widget :}06:29
gpdcesman: how is it with the iBlue gps?06:37
cesmandon't know yet06:37
cesmanafter I install maemo mapper and play w/ friend gps, I'll decide if I want iBlue06:38
cesmangot a link on setting up mapper?06:39
gpdwhat else is on your list for 'important research' / playing around06:39
gpdyou mean a map repository link?06:39
cesmanis that all it takes06:39
gpdfor the mapping - it seems so.06:39
cesmanthe info I've seen has been spotty06:40
cesmanall you need now is that package?06:40
gpdi installed the maemo-mapper and put the url (in pm) into the map repository06:40
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cesmanthe stuff I read earlier made it seem more involevd06:45
gpdwow -- the satelite stuff is very cool - but a little slow06:45
gpdactually -- it is fast now -- :)06:46
cesmangotta setup my repos06:46
gpdhybrid would be nice -- /me looks06:46
* gpd starts to get upset with vi - considers fixing port of vim 7.0 06:53
cesmanit would be nice if you could select a list of apps for it to install instead of one at a time06:59
gpdyou mean you can only use dpkg -i foo.deb?06:59
gpdor in the Application Manager07:00
cesmanno, I'm using the gui07:00
gpdlatter -- yes i agree07:00
Takapp manager can't really DL many debs at a time anyway07:00
gpdi gave up with that and started using apt07:00
gpdi would like to find an easy way to get apt to tell me new packages it found after an update07:01
Takthat was probably part of the consideration07:01
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Taklike...available for update, or packages that previously weren't in the repo?07:01
gpdapt-cache dump-avail |grep ^Package |sort > packages_date.txt07:01
gpdTak: like weren't in there before07:01
gpdaptitude search '~N' -- iirc07:02
gpdnot sure about apt version07:02
Takthere may not be07:02
TakI doubt it comes up much in debian proper07:02
gpdthere are new packages quite often -- weekly news has tehm listed07:02
cesmanman, time flies07:03
gpdis there a block on porting aptitude?07:03
gpdie. a technical difficulty?07:03
TakI would guess lack of anybody motivated to do so07:04
gpdmy guess too -- but ocasionally useful07:04
gpdmakes putting packages on hold easier imho07:04
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Takyeah, I always end up doing the --set-selections thing07:06
gpd[ 3691.342987] EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled07:07
gpd[ 3692.072601] EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled07:07
gpdi'm still getting that a lot07:07
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cesmanmy map has gone all black07:29
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TakYou have been eaten by a grue.07:30
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cesmanmaemo mapper is cool!08:06
cesmanjust need a gps to test w/ now08:06
bmidgleyit recently stopped working for me08:08
bmidgleyI think I need to fix the URI strings08:08
cesmanone thing I either don't see or it is missing, is defined point to defined point08:09
cesmanor current location to defined point08:09
* cesman is hungry08:09
bmidgleyat some zoom levels the sat map is blank08:11
bmidgleyswitch to the street map if you need to zoom way out08:12
TakI use it without a gps as a portable, zoomable map of the city08:15
* cesman tries to find POI files online08:17
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* gpd grumbles at lack of libpcre3 for armel08:25
* gpd builds08:29
Taksounds like a job for mud-builder08:30
* Tak waits for Jaffa to show up in a cape and tights08:34
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gpdhmm... libpcre3 build and installed08:39
gpdlighttpd built and installed -- but keeps suggesting that i download the html file?08:40
Takooo, pixel doubling makes a big difference for xmame08:40
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* Tak mutters angrily about xmame not using autotools08:51
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Takhas anybody done a multiple upload to different extras queues with the same package?09:12
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gpdchx: i'm still working on the lighttpd/php-fastcgi stuff09:20
chxgpd: wow09:22
chxgpd: lighttpd itself compile?09:22
gpdyes - and running - displays html so far09:22
gpdjust finalizing the php build for fast-cgi09:22
inzTak, rm packagename_version_arch.upload09:23
chxgpd: this smells 'fantastic' :)09:24
gpdstill having problems with xml for php - but not sure about that09:24
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gpd/usr/local/php5/bin # ./php -v09:25
gpdPHP 5.2.0 (cgi-fcgi) (built: Jan 16 2007 23:19:03)09:25
Takinz: hmm, now it'd bitching about my key09:25
Takthat's what it was doing with --force as well09:25
chxgpd: as said, forget XML for now09:29
gpdwell it seems to be running -- but your test script is no faster :(09:29
chxit should be faster on the second run, I believe09:30
gpdheh -- not much09:30
Takhmm, maybe keys didn't get replicated correctly?09:30
chxbut still, lighty is better -- no need to hack with that cgiwrapper stuff, right?09:31
gpdexactly -- just runs straight with .php09:31
gpdi may not have it running with fast-cgi yet -- not really sure what i am doing with that09:32
chxcheck phpinfo09:33
chxi think it tells you the current sapi09:33
gpdno mention of sapi :(09:35
gpdchx: ^^09:36
chxServer API CGI/FastCGI09:37
chxthere is09:37
chxbut it does not tells you which one09:37
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cesmanthe wrapper script for MythTV to use is working!09:39
gpdcesman: very nice09:39
cesmannow, one more script utilizing udev and when I plug my n800 into a usb port, all transcoded files will be copied over09:40
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gpdwhat are you using for the transcoding?09:40
tigert770-encode uses mencoder iirc09:41
gpdchx: just ran dokuwiki -- runs on tablet!09:41
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gpdseems reasonably fast09:42
chxif you want I could add your name to it :)09:44
suihkulokkicesman: url? =)09:45
gpdnah - i'm happy being anon09:45
gpdchx: now we *really* need Vim on there - not just vi!09:47
chxnano / pico maybe?09:47
gpdwell vi is fine -- but vim is nicer09:48
gpdvi is installed by default09:48
gpd(of course)09:48
gpdwow -- having dokuwiki on here is actually quite useful!09:49
chxwell, vi is a pain in the ass to use :(09:49
cambbaany gaim users here? does it work with n800? I installed it from mistral repository, but MSN not working even with the protocol installed09:49
gpdchx: what is your editor of choice?09:50
gpdcambba: -- not tried myself but says 'works' on there -- probably lies09:51
chxgpd: for a limited platform like this, nano09:51
cambbagpd: it starts ok and I can configure the MSN account, but it keeps complaining about missing plugin...maybe other protocols work, don't know09:52
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gpdchx: did you consider virtual hosting (reading your site)10:02
chxgpd: you can't be twenty bucks a year.10:03
gpdhow about - nearlyfreespeach.net10:03
gpdthat is linux on a /tight/ budget ;)10:04
gpdbut i agree - my virtual server is $20/mo not /yr :(10:04
chxand that is very dangerous10:05
chxshould something hit your site you pay your ass off10:05
chxData Transfers (Bandwidth):  $1.00 per gigabyte10:05
gpdwell - you just don't put more than $5 on there10:06
chxthis suggests me that the first started gigabyte per month is 1 dollar10:06
gpdnah  you can run at $0 per month if you have no traffic10:06
gpdi use it for a couple of drupal sites10:06
chxbut i have a few ten megabytes10:06
gpdso far i have used $0.23 in 6 months ;)10:06
chxhow much is mysql?10:07
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gpdall you pay for is the bandwidth10:07
gpdanyway -- heading off now -- let me now when you get a patch for drupal and we can try it out10:08
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* Tak slaps forehead10:16
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tigertchx: tried amazon s3?10:39
tigert    * Pay only for what you use. There is no minimum fee, and no start-up cost.10:39
tigert    * $0.15 per GB-Month of storage used.10:39
tigert    * $0.20 per GB of data transferred.10:39
tigertits pretty reasonable price, and fast and distributed10:40
chxthat indeed also sounds good10:40
chxbut, does it come with stuff preinstalled ?10:40
tigertits just a data store with an API10:40
tigertfor images and files10:40
tigertthe idea is you can host photos, videos or whatever your site uses, there10:41
chxah yes there is another service which gives virtual servers10:41
tigertyea, I would guess so10:41
tigertbut for serving data this is pretty reasonable price10:41
osfameronthey install vi by default?10:42
chxye, but what we were talking about gpd is that I blogged about a hosting service I found which bills me 20 bucks a year and gives me PHP and MySQL with SSH with great support so far. I had need for such service for development sites.10:42
osfameronI didn't realise *anyone* still used vi as opposed to vim :-)10:42
chxI find this page reassuring10:43
tigerta lot of people use vi because it's there10:43
spaetzit's small and it's there :-)10:43
tigertchx: you can very easily just compile pretty much any console app to maemo10:43
tigertas long as it doesnt hog a huge amount of ram or disk10:44
tigertits pretty much "linux" anyway10:44
chxI guess10:44
chxif lighttpd and php compiled...10:44
Veggenlearning vi is never wasted.10:45
osfameronxournal looks nice10:45
osfameronindeed. vi is great, but it's frustrating after getting used to vim10:46
VeggenHmm. I'd like for Debian packages to be able to be installed under a different tree. that's be nice. The internal memory card could easily hold a lot more applications. Though doubling the amount of built-in-flash should help *a lot*10:48
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VeggenHmm. Bluetooth PAN and an ssh-based VPN-solution from work to home. That's what I need to set up to be able to use the tablet on the net from work too. hmm.10:50
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osfameronPAN ?10:50
Veggeneh, isn't that what it's called. or maybe it was something else.10:51
VeggenIt's direct networking over bluetooth, not dialup.10:51
osfameronoh, Personal Area Network ?10:52
osfameronlike using a BlueOnyx to stream your media files10:52
osfameroncouldn't you just use the wifi ?10:52
Veggensure. But I doubt I'd be allowed.10:53
VeggenNot that bluetooth is10:54
Veggen*that* much better, security wise. But probably it'd go off unnoticed, at least :)10:54
Veggenhmm. Firewall it off so that it would only be allowed to access outside network, perhaps.10:54
JaffaMorning, all10:57
pcfeVeggen: you're the wiki master (i.e. root), right?10:57
Veggendefinitely not.10:57
pcfeah, damn, nick confusion10:58
pcfe is still 50010:58
JaffaTak: you've seen me at weekend then? (cape & tights)11:01
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AD-N770good morning11:20
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pcfeFFS, wasn't vdso supposed to be working with scratchbox Apophis?13:02
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pikanapsu ERROR: Scratchbox dir '/scratchbox/users/pikanapsu//scratchbox/tools/bin' is missing!13:05
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pikanapsuhelp :)?13:05
pikanapsufirst login worked.. but when i did reboot it doesn't work anymore13:05
pikanapsuand.. i get white screen with xephyr.. should it bee like the background of XDM13:06
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pikanapsuAnyone awake?:D13:18
pikanapsupikanapsu@rokkalap:/scratchbox/sbin$ ./sbox_umount_all13:22
pikanapsu/scratchbox/users/pikanapsu/scratchbox/dev/pts: No such file or directory13:22
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sKaBoyhave you started scratchbox? /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start (or similar..)13:25
vidarinohow about sbox_mount_all? (instead of umount)13:25
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vidarinoand you probably have to do it as root.13:26
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* sbaturzio is away: Lunch time...13:39
pikanapsusKaBoy: ?13:39
pikanapsuwhen must i  run /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start13:40
florian_kchi all13:40
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Molagiwoot my n800 arrived14:14
Molagiunpacking it now <314:14
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* sbaturzio is back (gone 00:47:58)14:27
wumpuswish mine would arrive :)14:29
pcfebefore I start googling; has anybody bothered to write a SELinux policy for scratchbox?14:32
Veggenanyone else had problems with the locking mechanism on the internal SD card?14:37
VeggenI think I'll need to put a bit of tape across it, just to keep it in place. and it's not broken, it just is that way.14:38
pcfeIf you mean that the physical latch is flimsy and wobbly, then yes14:38
Veggenit has wobbled off and made the internal card unavailable for me.14:39
Veggen(afew times since monday)14:39
pcfeOTOH I've had a few mobile phones with the same crappy latch.14:39
pcfeGuess some bean counter found a way to save a cent or two14:40
pcfeVeggen: that is IMHO a warranty claim.14:40
Veggenpcfe: well...if they're all like that?14:41
Veggenand I'm not sure I'm ready to be without it for a month or two for something like that ;)14:41
pcfeat least make some (polite but to the point) feedback. Crappy latches on a 400+ EUR device is just not nice14:42
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jonekhi, I tried to use Xephyr again since a long time and it fails with "Xephyr unable to use SHM XImages14:43
jonekFatal server error:14:43
jonekcould not open default font 'fixed'14:43
jonek" what's wrong? I use it over ssh and xforwarding14:43
Jaffajonek: I recently had an X server error like that on an Ubuntu Edgy box which hadn't been fully upgraded from Dapper14:49
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nnodjonek: fix your font paths15:06
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ptmanpython2.5 for maemo doesn't seem to include something that the module "threading" depends on15:11
ptmanthreads are quite nice to have15:11
ptmanprocesses are not nearly as lightweight15:11
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pahartikptman: Python 2.4.2 does have "threading"15:22
wumpusI remember threading with python is a bit limited due to the global interpreter lock that is active while executing python code15:24
joneknnd: on which machine?15:24
wumpusbut that might be a long time ago :)15:24
mgedminit's still true, though15:25
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nnodjonek: the machine you're running X from15:25
joneknnod: I think the font path is ok an my local machine. (the one where I start ssh to the scratchbox machine.)15:27
aCiDBaSeptman: it's ok in my 770...15:27
aCiDBaSeNokia770-39:~# python2.515:27
aCiDBaSePython 2.5 (r25:8986:9082, Jan 15 2007, 13:23:39)15:27
aCiDBaSe[GCC 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)] on linux215:27
aCiDBaSeType "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.15:27
aCiDBaSe>>> import threading15:27
ptmanpython2.4 certainly works for me15:28
ptmanbut not python2.515:28
aCiDBaSein N800 too... :/15:28
ptmanand I have a 77015:29
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Molagiwhat is the newest version of OS 2007?15:29
joneknnod: an 'xterm -fn fixed' works fine local and over xforwarding on the scratchbox machine15:30
aCiDBaSeptman: strange, it's ok here in my devices (770 and N800)...15:30
ptmanI'll have to try wiping my 770 and installing python2.5 cleanly15:31
ptmanI've messed around in quite many ways15:31
luckptman, are you using the latest scirocco image?15:31
ptmana december one15:31
Molagiis the version 2.2006.51-6 newest?15:33
jtraMolagi: that is for 770, and there is 2007 version for N80015:34
luckversion 2.2006.39-14 is the newest from maemo.org15:37
jtraah, indeed 2.2006.51-6 is OS 2007 it seems, its name is just confusing15:46
nnodjonek: that's good to know15:49
nnodjonek: wait, i misread that, do you mean you didn't fix the problem?15:50
joneknnod: I didn't fix it :-(15:51
joneknnod: I'm currently updating my SDK_PC target in sbox...15:52
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* Jaffa wonders why koen's blog post takes up so much room on the top of pmo16:03
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JaffaAh, there's a "<br clear='all' />' in there :)16:04
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jonek*urgh*  I f***ed my sbox SDK_PC seriously during an apt-get upgrade: any ideas how to fix that?16:08
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partjonek: what did you upgrade from?16:24
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jonekpart: an old rootstrap install (deb 2.0rc16 free non-free) - never used the SDK_PC on that sbox installatione before.16:26
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partjonek: 2.0? did you upgrade that to 2.1 or something?16:26
partjust remove the target and install a new rootstrap16:28
jonekpart: ok - I wanted to avoid that but it seems there is no other way16:29
partthere is no other way, upgrading a target is not supported16:30
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Molagihow long does it take to recharge n80016:34
Molagiive been recharging it for 45minutes now16:34
Molagistill isnt full16:34
partyes, it seems it takes longer than 45 minutes.16:35
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chxrootstrap? that's a new word. one learns every day. :)16:36
partchx: is a rootstrap file16:38
jonekpart: I've updated the ARMEL target a few times already - no problems16:39
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partjonek: it might work, but it's not supported, just as upgrading between releases on the device with packages16:41
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jonekpart: ok I wasn't aware of that (upgrading targets not supported) I tought it was the recommended procedure to go from let's say maemo 2.0 to 2.116:43
memnochi, so I woke this morning to find I was unable to poweron my 800, just goes into an infinate reboot screen after the nokia logo is displayed16:43
pcfememnoc: try the following:16:44
pcfepower down (worst cvase by removing battery)16:44
pcferemove any present MMC/SD card16:44
pcfepower up again16:44
pcfetell us how it goes16:44
jonekpart: how can I remove a target??16:46
memnocwithout the charger plugged in, it gets to the nokia screen and turns off, with it plugged in it gets into a loop16:47
memnocof on for about 10s then off16:47
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memnoclast thing I did last night was add some RSS feeds16:47
jonekpart: there is only --reset-target16:47
partjonek: yes, reset the target and use a new rootstrap16:49
jonekpart: actually what I tried was: v2.0rc16 -> v2.0 (mistral)16:49
partjonek: that might just work, the package selection is just about the same16:50
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jonekpart: is resetting a target == removing it?16:51
jonekpart: it was really fast16:51
partjonek: not quite, but what I meant was reset, really16:52
memnocif the battery becomes completely drained would I see this type of behavior?16:53
partmemnoc: no, the device would no longer turn on at all16:54
memnocok, because it seems like it's not even staying on long enough for me to flash it again16:54
mgedminmemnoc: charge the battery for a few minutes, then try turning it on16:55
partmemnoc: if the battery is fairly empty, it would do that16:55
mgedminah, but you already did that and got a reboot loop :-/16:55
memnocremoved sd cards (had 2)16:56
suihkulokkisomeone mentiones busybox update from sdk caused the same effect at mameo-users list16:56
memnocoh, actually ;)16:57
memnocI did that right before my RSS update16:57
memnocopened app manager and saw there was an update avaiablable16:57
suihkulokkitry flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset16:57
mgedminbut charge the battery first, before reflashing16:57
memnocok, thanks, don't have a linux box handly (except through vmware) will try in a bit16:58
mgedminisn't busybox a system package that is not shown by the app manager?  unless you enable red pill, of course16:58
mgedminthere's a windows flasher as well16:58
partmgedmin: should be, yes16:58
memnocI have red pill enabled ;)16:58
* suihkulokki wonders WTF is there a broken busybox in sdk in the first place16:58
mgedminyou will have to reflash the image anyway, to get the working busybox16:58
memnocthere is a win flasher, but I cna't pass that option16:58
mgedminsuihkulokki: sdk packages are not supposed to be installed on the device16:59
memnocso the above, is probably a waste anyway?16:59
inzmemnoc, red pill mode is asking for trouble =)16:59
mgedminalthough sometimes it works16:59
memnocwell, I know unix/linux pretty well, it's not like a *removed* system packages ;)16:59
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mgedminmaemo is more fragile than a typical unix/linux system :/17:00
partsuihkulokki: it's for sbrsh, and definitely not meant to be installed on the device17:01
memnocI needed red pill for something ;)17:02
memnocanyway, I don't mind reflashing, the device isn't mission critical to me17:02
Veggenuhm...there are useful packages that are not shown without red pill.17:02
VeggenThat might be because of bad repository layout, though.17:02
mgedminmore risk == more gain17:03
suihkulokkipart: howabout calling it something else than busybox, then? :P17:03
kaatissuihkulokki, sdk version of busybox doesn't have mount because it doesn't support nfs17:03
* Tak jumps off a bridge17:03
kaatishow about not using sdk repository on the device17:04
mgedminthat's the best solution17:04
mgedminbut we need a replacement repository rich with useful packages then17:04
partmgedmin: extras? :)17:04
Takmud-builder to the rescue!17:04
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keesjinz, ?17:14
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jonekpart: thx for your help. now I have an up to date SDK_PC target and working Xephyr again *sigh*17:21
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pahartikwhich process is responsible for showing that "shutdown/keylock menu" an activity timeout locking of Nokia 770?17:31
Molagihmm how do i add stuff on the memory cards via usb17:31
nwkas every flash17:31
lardmanpahartik: Probably one of the dsme tasks17:31
Molagifirst time i use flash17:31
Molagimy comp doesnt recognize this17:32
Molagiwhen i add it17:32
nwkit is flash17:32
nwkjust mount it17:32
Molagidoes it have to be shutdown when mounting it17:32
nwkI think it will sleep17:33
lardmanpahartik: it may be something along the lines of, look at the output of ps. I think that;s one of the modules that dsme runs17:33
inzkeesj, ?17:34
pahartiklardman: I am wondering because menu does not show up and device is not locking itself after timeout17:34
Molagiok booting17:34
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inzpahartik, systemui17:35
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lardmanpahartik: do you have lifeguard resets turned off?17:36
lardmaninz: That;s the process name?17:36
pahartiklardman: not that I know of17:37
memnocok, re-flashed via windows flasher and same thing, stuck in a reboot loop17:37
lardmanpahartik: Don't worry, I was just guessing assuming it was run by dsme17:37
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pahartikinz: "systemui" says "systemui[1526]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - main: assertion `init_osso(app_ui_data)' failed", when starting it manually17:38
* Jaffa gives Tak the mud-builder plug of the day award :-)17:39
* Tak makes room on his mantel17:39
* Jaffa 's hoping to have the first, stable, cut-down mud-built packages uploaded to Extras by the end of the week.17:39
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inzpahartik, try either or use the initscript17:44
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pahartikinz: one was already running, I did "kill -HUP" "systemui" and it appeared again with another PID... still no dialog for shutdown17:48
Guardianlifguard resets turns on highlight :) time to tweak the settings17:48
inzpahartik, is there in /usr/lib/systmeui?17:50
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Molagihmm how do i close the usb storage thing so i can remove the cable17:52
pahartikinz: "" does have timestamp from 2006-05-2617:52
Molagiit says "cant remove"17:52
inzpahartik, then I dunno what's wrong...17:53
inzpahartik, unless mce is not running, or is unresponsive17:53
pahartikinz: strange situation, has not happened to me before17:54
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JaffaGah, I'm getting emails to addresses bounced back.17:56
X-FadeJaffa: the maemo servers seem very buggy lately.18:00 is down for me too.18:00
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JaffaIt was saying "Message content rejected" so I've rewritten my mail to appear less spammy.18:02
X-FadeHmm nice :)18:02
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memnocquestion, a reflash of the latest OS for my 800 didn't work, do I just need to set the no-lifegauard-reset via the linux flasher, or do I need to set that option and then reflash again?18:05
pahartikinz: tried "/etc/init.d/mce restart" and "/etc/init.d/osso-systemui restart", but no result18:07
pahartikinz: not sure about how to investigate further, so I will just "poweroff" and see if that helps18:08
JaffaX-Fade: bah, rejected again.18:09
lle2Jaffa: I think is dead18:09
JaffaI think I've found out why Extras isn't more widely used.18:09
lle2now it's alive again18:09
memnoc*really* slow to load18:09
Jaffalle2: yeah, but I can't email them to tell them ;-)18:09
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pahartikinz: shutdown dialog is back again...18:12
keesjJaffa, why is that?18:12
keesjmy reason for not using it is that it requires a debian install18:12
Jaffakeesj: I can't email them to ask for the account!18:13
keesjjust for the singing18:13
Jaffakeesj: do they say why you shouldn't use debsign in scratchbox?18:13
keesjI don't remember18:16
JaffaDoesn't seem to explain why on the current page.18:18
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Takanyone have a link to a good doc for libxv?18:25
Molagihow can i remove n800 safely from my computer, the usb is attached and it wont let me unmount it18:27
Molagistupid windows18:27
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PierreMolagi: still having a open window with the n800 drive?18:28
Pierre(or a console)18:29
wumpusyeah windows has that wonderful problem sometimes18:29
wumpustoo bad it has no fuser -kc like linux18:30
Pierrenot only windows, it is common to every OS. You cannot unmount a FS which is still in use somewhere.18:30
Pierreonly questions is where is "somewhere" ;)18:30
wumpussure, but in linux at least you can easily find out which process and kill it18:31
wumpusI never could in windows, just have to reboot18:31
wumpusmaybe you can download/buy some utility for it though..18:31
Molagianything in mind?18:33
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osfameronthere's fuser -kc  in cygwin18:34
wumpusMolagi: I googled a bit
osfameronmy cygwin doesn't have lsof though which is annoying18:34
Molagioh nice18:36
Molagigonna give it a try18:36
JaffaMolagi: there's also Process Explorer from SysInternals which'll tell you what's locking a path18:37
TakI thought all the sysinternals stuff went away?18:37
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glassms bought them or something18:42
Takyeah, that's why I thought it went away18:42
JaffaI thought you could still get it, which glass' URL suggests you can18:44
JaffaIf not, I'll zip it up.18:44
JaffaYeah, it's there.18:44
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Molagiwell cant get it removed :(18:47
Molagigotta do things the old fashion way18:47
Molagiboot ->18:47
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lardmanYou could always specify that Windows optimises for quick removal (no write caching) in which case just ignore the warning18:53
Takhah - does anyone know if the minimo port will run under a standard (no hildon) linux installation?18:54
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||cwthere's a standard minimo port too19:01
Takah - all I found was the windows mobile one19:01
Molagihmm how do i get irssi to n800?19:02
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||cwMolagi: if was up, it would be easy19:04
||cwMolagi: if you can find the package, it's also pretty easy19:04
Takseems like it's up19:04
||cwit's been up and down the last couple days19:04
Molagihmm ok19:04
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* sp3000 ponders whether to blame irssi or the osso-xterm for showing his nick white on white when in black on white mode19:06
Molagiapplication seems to be down19:06
Molagibut the main page opens19:06
sp3000white on black doesn't work that well in sunlight :)19:07
Molagioh it opened19:07
sp3000says something about the season that it took me over a week to find  oiut19:07
pahartiksp3000: edit "theme" used on Irssi19:08
sp3000yeah I was planning to look at themes19:08
sp3000but I suppose there's arguably a bug in one or the other?19:09
Molagiwhick one is better osso xterm (advanced) or osso xterm19:09
Molagiwhat the difference19:09
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sp3000oh, have you noticed that the term doesn't respond to mode changes after opening another tab19:09
glasswhite on white happens with any term set to white-on-black with irssi19:10
sp3000mode as in fullscreen and erversecolor that is19:10
glassblack on white19:10
Molagidoes n800 support
sp3000glass: yaeh I'm thinking that probably shouldn't happen19:11
sp3000not that that means it's completely avoidable19:11
glasssp3000: irssi doesnt know the bg color apparently19:11
glassor set it, if it did you'd have the themed white on black again..19:12
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pahartiksp3000: another thing... Experiment with 'export COLORFGBG="0;15"'19:13
sp3000hrm, sorry, the effect where the term stops responding to fullscreen, zoom, and reversecolor is after closing a tab19:13
mgedminCOLORFGBG is interesting, is it set automatically by any of the multitude of xterms out there?19:16
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* pahartik thinks that most Irssi themes are good only for exactly same terminal and settings theme was created for19:20
Molagihmm how do i open irssi with xterminal?19:22
Molagior some kind of program to irc19:23
sp3000hmm, says something about color selection support in an update19:23
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Takhmm - how accurate is the bora scratchbox env wrt the hardware?19:23
* sp3000 goes find out if that means selecting one or both of the problematic whites ;)19:23
lle2Tak: if you setup your sbox to use sbrsh for cpu-transparency, it's pretty close19:24
Takhow about the display?19:24
lle2you get to run your arm binaries on the device itself19:24
Takheh, I don't have a device :-P19:25
* sp3000 slaps the app update thinger for not showing source repo19:25
pahartiksp3000: good point19:26
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lle2Tak: depends what you want to do, if you're looking at developing device drivers or dsp stuff, it's not close at all, but for application stuff it's close enough I suppose19:27
Guardian when does nokia usually claim ownership ? :D19:27
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pahartiksp3000: it could show URL of target package19:27
Takeh, I'm looking at messing with various things for accelerated scaling19:28
lle2then it's not close enough, imho19:29
Takbut I'm pretty much running blind here19:29
lle2you need the actual hw to do specific optimizations, of course working on the general quality of the algorithm etc can be done on whichever cpu19:30
JaffaBlimey, I hadn't seen the Opie port:
lle2scratchbox is not an emulator19:31
lle2it's a build environment which some people abuse as an emulator19:31
Takyeah, I know it's not an emulator19:32
Takjust wondering about the extent to which I can abuse it ;-)19:32
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Molagiwhere can i get password for downloading irssi through xterminal19:34
sp3000looks like the new xterm color selection does allow me to select an off-white bg without afecting the bright white text, so that works19:34
lle2I hope this sbox-as-an-emulator concept dies with sb2 and something more appropriate comes to do the emulation part19:34
sp3000of course it makes the white text in white-on-black less bright too, but, meh19:36
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sp3000oh, was annoying19:38
* sp3000 calls that a missing dependency :)19:39
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sp3000hmm, looks like my issue with fullscreen/zoom/revcolors is fixed too19:46
sp3000I was just writing up a bug19:46
sp3000don't you hate that19:46
sp3000when people fix your issues before you get to report them19:46
Takin a happy kind of way :-P19:47
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osfameronwoot n800 arrived!19:50
Takwow - is it likely that my /scratchbox is really 3G ?19:50
osfameroncan I play with it straight away?  the instructions aren't tellling me to charge it over night first... or else19:50
koenJaffa: are you recognized as a cool developer yet?19:51
JaffaTak: sounds feasible to me. That's why I don't want to have to double the number of rootstraps to support Maemo 2.2 & Maemo 3 concurrently.19:51
Jaffakoen: nope. You?19:51
JaffaAnyone else?19:51
Takno kidding19:51
Taknot I, said the chicken19:52
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Jaffakeesj: ta for the email about mud - very encouraging: all very good points and I'll try and get the docs updated maybe this evening.19:57
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keesjIt is really great and I want to be a host for a certain target19:58
JaffaCool :)19:58
* cesman has partially working udev rule and script to sync video files :/19:58
Jaffacesman: very, very nice. (I'd be interested in seeing that - when it's working ;-))19:59
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JaffaOK, my mails to maemo-developers are bouncing too. I'll consider myself suitably rejected :-)19:59
Tak"You're too prolific!  We don't want you anymore!"20:00
cesmanit is simply, but I'll share once I have the bugs worked out20:00
JaffaTak: "Here, have a discount code" would be a better response20:00
cesmanI have it working on one of my systems but not the other20:00
cesmanudev isn't creating the dev node entry20:01
cesmansince I have two SDs, udev runs the script that copies twice20:01
cesmanhere is the rule so far:20:03
cesmanKERNEL=="sd*", BUS=="scsi", ATTRS{model}=="N800            ", SYMLINK+="n800", R20:03
cesmanwell, real work calls20:04
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Molagihow can i specify a password to use su?20:05
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keesjMolagi, You first need to be root , after that you can change the password using the password command20:06
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Molagihow can make myself root20:07
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sp3000 (or google maemo root)20:07
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Molagidoes n800 have that same screen breaking problem what 770 had20:09
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Takscreen breaking problem?20:11
Molagithe first lines20:12
mgedminTak: there's a bind mount or two inside /scratchbox; it's really only 2 gigs20:12
* sp3000 hasn't heard any reports of early reboot screen funniness20:12
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TakI was wondering, but 2G is pretty bad too, for having to maintain two instances20:13
sp3000that page could use some editorial attention :)20:13
mgedminyeah, scratchbox 1 is fat20:13
sp3000should probably factor the screen funniness discussion out with a link20:13
* chx makes a complete root out of himself20:13
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* sp3000 roots for chx20:14
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sp3000do we require login to wiki the wiki or am I being blind20:16
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tkosp3000, only on the pages collecting most spam IIRC20:17
k-sguys, something weird with new n80020:18
tkoother than the users?-)20:19
k-sin SDL applications, if you keep the screen pressed, after some time it emits a sound and then acts like another click20:19
k-stko: do you know of any behaviour that changed in X?20:19
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||cwis it maybe doing a right click?20:20
tkok-s, you'd better ask daniels20:20
||cwthat's the general behaviour with a touch screen20:20
Taksounds like a right-click to me as well20:20
tko||cw, no, it's not automatic behavior20:20
Veggenok, I got the bad busybox installed, me too ;P20:20
Veggen(my first N800 reflash. Oh well)20:21
tkoat least I haven't heard of SDL emulating right-click that way20:21
k-sdaniels: ping... :-)20:21
k-stko: ok20:21
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k-stko: are u taking care of gtk yet?20:21
VeggenI'm just to used to Debian. Best to install upgraded packages.20:21
tkok-s, yet? I'm trying to let it go, sort of20:22
k-stko: :-)20:22
k-stko: so, are you waiting for vsync to avoid tearing effects?20:22
tkoI really need to get xan do all the work :)20:22
k-stko: canola looks terrible on n800, too much tearing :-(20:22
tkok-s, I'd have to flip a coin to give an answer...20:23
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k-stko: too bad20:24
k-stko: do you have any guys working on optimizing gtk for devices?20:24
k-sAFAIK gtk works in 32bpp, converting images to 16bpp in order to display20:25
k-sthese vsync stuff...20:25
sp3000oh it does say "protected page" there, yeah20:25
sp3000I am being blind :)20:25
tkobusy porting stuff to gtk 2.10, and gtk isn't that high up in the profiles anyway20:26
tkofor example we don't do that much 24/32 bit blitting20:26
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k-stko: widgets are drawn using 16bpp?20:26
* sp3000 wonders why the wiki's login page is so weird20:26
k-stko: when will 2.10 be ready?20:27
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ferulok-s: it is on going :)20:27
tkoit's API compatible already, though lacking some functionality20:27
k-sferulo: but will it make into n800 or just next device?20:28
tkok-s, please don't force us to kill you :)20:28
k-stko: ok, ok20:28
TakI'm looking forward to the n1000's liquid metal morphing ability20:28
tkoanyway, we'll be working pretty much on stage and uploading packages to 'experimental' so you'd be able to follow up somewhat20:29
tkosardine/experimental that is20:30
k-stko: great20:30
k-stko: will it include cairo, right?20:30
tkocairo 1.2 is already in sardine20:30
tko2.10 requires cairo, so yeah20:30
k-stko: great... many apps were ported to cairo... like gnumeric20:31
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pvanhoofsup MDK20:32
k-stko: who is the maemo-desktop maintainer?20:32
pvanhoofare you visiting FOSDEM, MDK ?20:32
pvanhoofmake sure you remind me to buy you some chocolats then :)20:32
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tkoyou know the drill, Somebody was supposed to announce what we're doing around gtk, then he assigned Nobody to do it while Everybody is waiting, ...20:35
tkok-s, the ones whose names are in changelog and commit messages?20:35
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sp3000_mmmm bt vera mono20:36
sp3000_readability *= 1.520:38
Molagihow do i change nick in irssi20:39
Molagiwhen not connected20:39
k-stko: I mean, the name/mail <--> irc nickname :-)20:39
Molagiit sets default nick user, how do i change it20:39
sp3000 (google irssi set-nick)20:39
sp3000that seems to claim /set nick and /nick to be equiv but I doubt it20:40
* sp3000 tests20:40
* sp3000 has been using irssi -n nick20:40
tkok-s, oh. I've seen jobi here, can't recall if lucasr stops by20:40
pvanhooftko, me and macslow are planning to discuss bling-on-mobiles at FOSDEM, are you interested to join our meeting?20:40
k-stko: so, lucasr is working on that? Great :-)20:40
pvanhooftko, the story is that if we'll get a serious discussion and a nice bullet-points-list of things to implement (like libraries, APIs and other stuff), that I might move 50% of my tinymail time to that20:41
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pvanhoofand I expect macslow to join me on that, if it's serious of course20:42
pvanhoofhowever, you know me. No-bullshit guy once I'm really interested :)20:42
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pvanhoofand with bling I mean, things that apple now does have (for example on the iPhone) that our platform doesn't have20:43
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Molagihow can i switch between the channels with irssi?20:43
tkopvanhoof, sounds interesting20:44
lle2expose-like feature would be nice20:44
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tkoferulo, we're sending MDK there, right? :)20:44
lle2the current "task-list" is quite lame20:44
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tkobut it's so window-ish, how can it be wrong?! :)20:45
pvanhooftko, yes well, I was thinking about involving some of the guys that might also be interested. Like cairo people, X11/KDrive people, some gtk+ dudes etc20:45
feruloI don't know yet who is going there20:45
lle2of the other macbling I don't really care that much for20:45
pvanhoofI just don't want to make it a huge meeting with all sorts of opinion-guys or a forum20:45
ferulobut I promised today to tim to be there so...20:45
pvanhoofit's actually to get some things done20:45
tkopvanhoof, exactly why I'm trying to get MDK there :)20:45
pvanhoofbut maybe it wont happen .. depends on a lot factors20:45
pvanhoofyes, MDK .. I will give you chocolats20:46
pvanhooftko, promise him chocolat20:46
pvanhoofhe'll come20:46
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pvanhooftko, are a lot Nokians coming?20:47
Veggenthere should be a smarter backup system on the Nokia.20:48
Veggen(...he said, as he had just flashed his N800 and not having done any backup ;P)20:48
pvanhoofbackups are for the weak, the strong put their stuff on an ftp as GPL and let the world back it up20:49
pvanhoofthe ultimate redundancy20:49
Veggenmmmm, yes, I know of that :)20:49
pvanhoofwe even have specialized version control systems for that20:50
Veggenbut, I'd like something that selectively backs up 1) all system settings, 2) the package list/repositories, for later reinstall, 3) all the files under the users home-dir. And now I mean *all*20:50
Taktar handles #3 quite nicely ;-)20:51
lle2best would be if you could tell the thing to use one of the removables as your "home"20:51
pvanhoofyou can make a little script with gconftool that does #220:51
pvanhooferr #120:51
Veggenyah, but as long as you have a newbie-friendly smart backup system, I guess #3 wpuld also make sense.20:51
pvanhoofand with dpkg --get-selection you can do #220:51
Molagihow can i switch between the channels with irssi?20:52
pvanhoofnow wrap this knew know-how in a little gtk+ ui, and distribute it?20:52
lle2Molagi: esc-N20:52
Molagilike channel 1 and 220:52
wumpusVeggen: what about rsync :)20:52
tkopvanhoof, some, we should get to the gtk meeting at least20:52
Veggenmm, maybe I should make a smarter backup system...20:53
pvanhoofI can probably arrange larger rooms for focus groups if I have exact numbers20:53
tkohmm, 1) is supported by backup app already, 2) and 3) could be implemented as simple extensions to the backup framework if I've understood it correctly20:53
pvanhoofbut if only some are coming, I'm not going to ask for more20:53
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Molagille2 what button is esc?20:53
tkopvanhoof, I think we won't be invading fosdem like we did gmae at boston :)20:54
pvanhoofI knew I had to come :)20:54
dottedmaganyone already asked for the full source code for ITOS2007 as on
dottedmagGPL,LGPL parts, surely.20:54
pvanhoofwell, usa .. I wont visit that country with their current administration20:54
lle2Molagi: uh, it could be one below the d-pad20:54
pvanhoof .. no tinymail yet? :)20:56
Molagidoesnt work ;O20:56
pvanhoofguess I'll have to work harder20:56
tkono tinymail but there's osso-email :)20:56
Molagii press esc and N on the keyboard?20:56
pvanhoofosso-email :)20:56
lle2Molagi: yeah, something like that20:56
lle2Molagi: not simultaneously, one after the other20:57
tkopvanhoof, well, the source is out there so anyone could fix it, right? :)20:57
pvanhooftko, so will it be osso-modest soon then? :)20:57
pvanhoofI'll ask djcb20:57
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pvanhoofwell, it's starting to look nice and useful on the desktop at least20:57
lle2tko: does the email client work? I've been very reluctant to point it at anything20:57
tkopvanhoof, yes, ask djbc.. we haven't been discussing it recently but I vaguely recall something about name change20:57
tkolle2, quite frankly, I haven't even started it on 200720:58
lle2tko: after seeing the source code ~2 years ago I decided not to risk my email20:58
pvanhooflle2, that's a good idea :)20:58
pvanhoofI don't think they improved it, because they are probably working on another solution for that problem20:58
pvanhoofbut.. I don't know :)20:58
|tbb|i wonder why the build in viewer wont have a slideshow function20:59
pvanhooftko, has jdub actually announced GMAE at Boston, or only talked about announcing it?21:01
pvanhoofbecause I haven't yet seen its website appear publicly21:01
tkopvanhoof, I think the plan was to announce it at (or however you spell it)21:02
pvanhoofaha so he's going to announce it one of these days?21:02
pvanhoofbecause is now. Right?21:02
tkowe'll see21:02
pvanhoofok, or maybe at fosdem? in that case you guys need to storm Belgium :)21:03
pvanhoofor invade21:03
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sp3000aren't you forgetting something21:05
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|tbb|anyone knows if openssh is working with os7?21:06
tkosp3000, could be, just can't recall what21:06
* sp3000 contemplates and how to interpret the parenthetical21:08
* sp3000 would prefer to keep his number of repos down21:08
sp3000besides, the mhackers pkgs have bigger numbers :)21:09
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sp3000which, as we know, is everything21:09
tkoI still can't quite understand why people don't upload packages to extras but rather force users to configure N+1 repositories...21:10
dottedmagtko: I wrote in the mailing list: extras is just unknown for developers.21:12
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|tbb|any idea when gpsd will work on the n800?21:12
sp3000so I guess it wants a bit of an evangelism effort21:13
dottedmagtko: any Ubuntu maintainer knows about Ubuntu Universe, but many Maemo maintainers don't even realize Maemo Extras exist.21:13
sp3000prominent placement by example would help21:13
dottedmagsp3000: exactly.21:13
Takcmon, fceu and xmame are in extras - isn't it famous yet?! :-P21:13
dottedmagsp3000: I would add visible link to wiki at the beginning of software list. And probably would generate list of software in Maemo Extras in human-parseable format.21:14
tkook, wouldn't be the first where our way of putting information forward isn't well received21:16
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mgedmintko: when I first created my 770 repository for myself, extras didn't exist (or wasn't advertised)21:25
mgedminand now I'm too lazy to figure out how to get a garage account etc.21:25
mgedminbesides, nobody uses my repository but myself, I assume21:25
tkoplease someone think of the kittens.. and users21:25
* mgedmin intends to get his act together, build a rich vim deb, and upload it to maemo extras21:26
Taks'ok, if you don't have better luck than Jaffa, you won't be able to request a garage/extras account anyway ;-)21:26
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keesji have 184 ruby 1.8.4 downloads21:44
keesjnot that bad for something advertised in the WIP21:46
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|tbb|any idea how to use this nokia thing on a linux machine?21:53
|tbb|hi florian21:53
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ferulo|tbb|: you should try with wine :(21:56
tkoferulo, you didn't find native linux version?21:57
ferulono :(21:58
tkothis is one of those slaps-head moments..21:58
|tbb|wont work22:00
|tbb|i like the error msg22:01
ferulosome g_spawn thing?22:01
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|tbb|ELF     0xb7f26000-b7f40000     Export
|tbb|ELF     0xb7f57000-b7f6f000     Deferred
|tbb|process  tid      prio (all id:s are in hex)22:03
|tbb|00000008 (D) C:\Program Files\Nokia Internet Call Invitation (Beta)\bin\xiscall.exe22:03
tkohmm, but there's sources available.. could those be built on linux?22:04
|tbb|perhaps, but i am not :/22:05
ferulotko: where are those sources?22:05
tkosee and 'Want to get the Source Code for the included Open Source Software? Click here.' at the bottom22:05
feruloso no source code for the application22:10
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daveaitelhello all22:38
daveaiteldoes anyone have an update on python/maemo for the Nokia 800?22:38
daveaitelapparantly it's not there by default?22:38
Takit's in the garage extras repository22:39
epxyes, it is not included in SDK anymore22:39
daveaitelhave you guys run into overhead problems in the nokia 700? I'm hoping they're fixed in the 80022:40
daveaitelbut we just got our first one in for testing22:40
daveaitel(thanks, btw)22:40
Takoverhead problems?22:40
daveaiteloverheat, sorry22:41
daveaiteli.e. device gets hot, then random things crash due to memory errors22:41
Takno, I've never had a heat issue22:41
daveaitelperhaps it is because we have a memory chip in it we're over-using22:41
Takand I've been known to run mine at 100% cpu from completely full to empty battery22:41
Taktime flies when you're playing dragon warrior ;-)22:43
ssvbdaveaitel: do you have wifi on when encountering crashes due to memory errors?22:43
daveaitelI've never played dragon warrior22:43
daveaitelyes - the device is used as a portable wifi scanning and attack tool22:43
daveaitelso wifi is always on22:43
daveaiteland in most cases, being used22:43
daveaitelas is the mmc chip22:44
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ssvbI also initially thought that it could be overheating, or low battery, or just bad memory22:44
daveaitelwe never use WPA as of current22:45
guerbydaveaitel, what package do you use for wifi scanning?22:46
ssvbdaveaitel: anyway, when running memtester (or any application with which uses a lot of memory), memory corruption problems occured with wifi connection on22:46
daveaitelour own22:46
daveaitelwe sell a commercial wifi-scanner based on the nokia22:46
daveaiteland that pretty much describes us: we use a lot of memory :>22:47
guerbydaveaitel, N800 has more of it :)22:47
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daveaitelyeah, we're currently testing the N800 to see if this solves the problem22:47
ssvbdaveaitel: can you try running some tests to confirm if it is the issue in your case?22:47
daveaitel(we do have screenshots on the above case)22:47
daveaitel(the above case meaning: us doing a scan, not us replicating the crash, although I guess we can get some)22:48
daveaitelwe can run tests if there is something that would help narrow this down22:48
ssvbdaveaitel: unfortunately nobody at Nokia could reproduce this bug yet :(22:48
daveaitelthat sounds like all fun bugs :>22:49
daveaitelI'll point our dev team to that bug and see if they can identify it closer22:50
daveaitelif not: we'll be back here to annoy you with more questions :>22:50
daveaitelwe notice that putting the n770 in the fridge has helped us22:50
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daveaitelif the device doesn't reboot, then it's going to be harder to identify the memory corruption, I assume22:51
ssvbdaveaitel: memtester program allocates as much memory as possible and does some tests in it, if it encounters any problem (memory contains data that is not supposed to be there), it reports error22:52
ssvbordinary programs such as browser or anything else may just crash because of its data getting corrupted22:53
ssvbI noticed this trouble when running lzma compressor test (wanted to use it as some kind of benchmark), it reported crc errors so it became apparent that there is something wrong with stability22:54
daveaitelis it possible the wifi chip is sitting next to a temperature sensitive memory chip?22:55
daveaitelbecause we don't use WPA22:55
daveaitelbut it makes sense that WPA would heat up the chip more22:55
daveaitelassuming WPA is done in silicon22:55
tzzdaveaitel: wow, $3600 for that software.  That puts it out of my range.  It looks nice, though.22:55
daveaitelit's mostly .gov and .mil customers22:55
daveaiteland .cop22:55
tzzdaveaitel: I like the shipping date.  February 1st.  No year specified :)22:56
daveaitelthe software is a variation of our product CANVAS (which you can also click on)22:56
ssvbdaveaitel: while I use WPA myself, it probably needs additional tests to investigate if it really affects stability22:56
daveaitelhahaha. Feb 1st 2007. :>22:56
daveaitelto be exact, we plan on shipping at 9am EST22:56
daveaitelbut we'll have demos at RSA22:56
daveaitel(a security conference in San Fran)22:56
daveaitelso you can check it out then22:56
ssvbdaveaitel: As you don't use WPA and still have problems, probably WPA is unrelated (if it is the same bug of course)22:57
daveaitelCANVAS is pure-python, so porting to the Nokia was not too hard, minus various issues like this memory bug22:57
daveaitelIt does LOOK like the same bug22:57
tzzdaveaitel: yeah, I figured it wouldn't be hobbyists buying this thing anyhow.  It's handy though, if security is your job.22:57
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daveaitela hobbiest would probably try to build their own, but the market is in people who can't build their own and just want it to work. Of course, having it have random memory errors makes this problematic. :>22:58
tzzdaveaitel: why have I seen so many people use "hobbiest" lately?  I'm pretty sure it's not standard English.  Just wondering.23:03
tzzdaveaitel: I'll keep Silica in mind, if I find someone who needs it.  It certainly sounds like a good product.23:03
Takmaybe they mean "hobbitiest" ;-)23:03
tzzmaybe "hobbyist" just looks wrong to most people...23:04
||cwyeah, but it's the right one23:04
||cwthey both look wrong to me though23:04
TakI blame phonics23:05
||cwi think because it needs to be ist, est is somethign else, and hobbiist looks weirder23:05
Tak"Just spell it like it sounds!"  Yeah, that's not a good idea in Texas23:05
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tzzEnglish doesn't have a monopoly on words that look weird, but it definitely has a big share of the market.  It's like the language was bolted together from exceptions.23:07
* pahartik thinks of "hobbitist"23:07
tzzIt certainly makes programming a challenge.  Pluralization is nearly impossible to do right.23:07
univacthere is a xosd hacker? ;p23:07
Takthat's what you get from a bastard mix of german, greek, french, and gaelic23:08
pahartikTak: oh... it is?23:08
||cwand latin, spanish, and a whole bunch of just plain made up stuff23:09
zyxulits mainly german and greek23:09
Takwell...most of the latin came through french23:09
daveaiteltzz - it's a fun project. I used hobbiest because someone else did I think!23:18
shaprHey, does anyone know if the N800 supports A2DP?23:18
shaprIf it does I'll take back the iPod shuffle I just bought, and spend that money on a Nokia BH-501 stereo bluetooth headset instead.23:19
daveaiteltzz - mostly I love how the nokia has made it easy and cheap to develop embedded linux projects. Having pyGTK working makes our lives impossibly easy! :>23:19
shaprc0ffee: What's the word on A2DP or even btsco on the N800?23:19
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zyxulthe python 2.5 environment installation fails on the n800, it says its missing some deps. I tried to install it from the install manager23:20
memnocto run --set-rd-flags=n-lifegaurd-reset, first I would issue a --enable-rd-mode?23:21
epxzyxul, did you try to install python2.5-runtime?23:21
zyxulthats what i tried23:21
aCiDBaSezyxul: add the " bora free non-free" repository in your application installer...23:22
aCiDBaSezyxul: we will add this information in installation instructions asap23:22
zyxulI got that setup23:22
zyxulit says missing: libglade-2.0 libsdl-tiff2.0.0 and libgdbm323:23
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shaprI want to listen to music while unicycling. I've been waiting for stereo bluetooth music profile for my 770 for a year. I gave up and bought an ipod shuffle instead. Is there some possibility that L2CAP or A2DP will appear in the next week or so? Should I return my iPod?23:23
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myrendo either of those profiles exist on the N800?23:24
shaprI don't know. I only have a 770.23:24
Takshapr: did you see the ML thread "Bluetooth Headseat Support - Status update?" ?23:24
* shapr checks!23:25
aCiDBaSezyxul: ok, but this packages are provided by the SDK repository ( bora free non-free)23:25
zyxulnot listed23:25
aCiDBaSestrange... it works on our N800...23:26
zyxulcatalog name: maemo23:26
zyxulweb address:, Distribution: bora, Components: free non-free23:26
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Takadd the / on the end of the url23:27
zyxulbtw the python2.5 doesnt even list if I dont add extras23:27
zyxulsorry it was added23:27
zyxulI need to either do or free non-free extras23:28
zyxulto get the python listing23:28
Gluzis it difficult to move to pythos if you have coded before only with c++ and java?23:28
daveaitelnot at all23:28
daveaitelyou'll know python in a day23:28
daveaiteland you'll wish you'd never heard of C++ or JAva23:28
Gluzhmm...sounds good23:28
daveaitelliterally a day23:28
Takotoh, if you're already familiar with C, why bother with python?23:28
epxyes, this is expected since python is in extras23:28
daveaitelhowever: I recommend getting a good editor23:28
* Tak python hater23:28
aCiDBaSezyxul: yes, you need to add 2 repositories: 1 - the maemo sdk repository and 2 - the extra repository23:28
daveaitelthe hardest thing to get over is Python caring about whitespace23:29
zyxulyeah tried that too23:29
daveaiteltry WingIDE23:29
Gluzi was thinkin some kind of remote to control modded xbox...have to give it a try23:29
daveaitelonce you program with libglade everhything else seems primitive23:29
zyxuldoes the order matter?23:30
zyxuli mean all of this ends up being added into apt sources anyway23:30
epxshould not matte23:30
GluzTak: i'm thinking of python because everyone seems to recommend it :)23:30
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zyxulGluz: might want to try lisp23:30
shaprTak: Lots of detail in this thread, thanks for the pointer!23:30
Takyeah, just like everyone recommends VB on windows23:31
Takshapr: np, hope it helps23:31
Gluzwhy lisp?23:31
daveaitelI've built a whole company on Python - we took our commercial product for Windows/Linux/OS X and ported ot the Nokia in a few weeks of cramming down memory consumption23:31
zyxulsuprior as a language23:31
tzzdaveaitel: agree, developing for Maemo is much easier than the embedded devices I have programmed over the years.  PalmOS counts too, btw, what a piece of junk...23:31
Gluzok :)23:31
epxpython is perfect :)23:31
AndyCapdaveaitel: with gui?23:31
shaprI suggest Haskell :-)23:31
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daveaitelAndyCap: yes, with the GUI23:32
daveaitelour GUI is pyGTK on Windows/Linux/OS X23:32
daveaitelwe had to remap a few keys on the Nokia23:32
daveaitel(Although now we use a native Hildon GUI)23:32
daveaitel(in pyHildon or whatever)23:32
Gluzwell...I have to wait a while before coding because my N800 just died today..23:33
daveaitelThe main thing I like about Python is we can hire people and train them in it in 1 day, as opposed ot Haskell/Lisp23:33
Gluzhopefully, I can get it fixed tomorrow23:33
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* tzz doesn't use Python yet. Perl and Lisp 90% of the time, C/shell/Java the other 10%. Thinking about Python a lot lately though, and Ruby too (seems like a big Ruby market right now).23:33
AndyCapguess it'll be python-hildon or something for my remote control need as well23:34
shaprdaveaitel: I'd argue that you could train someone in python 1.5.2 in one day, but I'm not so happy about the syntax additions after that.23:35
daveaitelThere's a lot of things about Python that suck23:35
shaprPython has been my day job for the previous six years, but now I have a Haskell job.23:35
daveaitel(if I may ask)23:35
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shaprSelf employed contract programmer. I mostly did zope & plone, but I did lots of custom stuff.23:35
shaprOh wait, you mean the Haskell job?23:36
shaprI work for HAppS LLC. It's based in NYC, but I'm firmly based on my couch in Birmingham, AL23:36
shaprWe coordinate over jabber, irc, and do pair programming on skype.23:36
AndyCapGluz: died on it's own, or external influence?23:36
daveaitelMy friend Jake Zurgen is a huge fan of Haskell, but I can't enjoy anything statically typed.23:37
GluzAndyCap: it didn't hit anywhere if that's what you mean :)23:37
Gluzjust doesn't start anymore23:37
shaprdaveaitel: It's not statically typed in the sense that C/Java/etc are statically typed. It's more like dynamically typed at compile time with type inferencing.23:37
shaprdaveaitel: yup23:37
AndyCapGluz: just fearing for my own N800. :P23:38
Gluzi wrote about it there23:38
Gluzlast post23:38
desrtthe conference is funny.  geeks are going around trying to score themselves free n800s23:39
shaprdaveaitel: I could go on in however much detail you want, but I also think pushy is a bad thing, so drop by #haskell and ask me questions if you want.23:39
shaprdesrt: Greetings Fellow Haskell User!23:39
zyxulhave you guys created an sshd packages for the n800 ?23:39
desrtshapr; hello.  how are you?23:39
shaprLife is good! I just got back from unicycling around the golf course.23:39
* desrt is downunder23:40
revwow, a haskell job23:40
revwhat do you get paid to program in haskell?23:40
shaprdaveaitel: I don't want to drone on about nifty Haskell features if this is just friendly chatter :-)23:40
desrtnokia sent a small detachment of employees to visit me :)23:40
shaprrev: Right now, a web application framework, it's way cool.23:40
* rev uses Smalltalk... no sense using a watered down wannabe like Ruby or Python... :P23:40
shaprIt has some unique features and a bunch more on the way.23:40
revshapr: sounds like it!23:40
revshapr: er, more so i meant: "I imagine!"23:40
shaprdaveaitel: But if you want to hear more... I've got lots!23:41
|tbb|gluz, have u tried to turn on ur device while its on ac?23:41
shaprdesrt: Are you at cse.UNSW?23:42
s-ndh-chm why does that sdk installer not work?23:42
s-ndh-cit just prints : bad trap and exits23:42
shaprdesrt: Are you going to migrate back to Cale & Co, or are you doing something education down there?23:42
Gluztbb: yes, i think i have tried everything :)23:42
Taks-ndh-c: run it with bash23:42
desrtshapr; i'm at shalom.UNSW23:42
shaprdesrt: I don't know that department.23:43
desrtshapr; is on23:43
s-ndh-cTak: bash i my default shell23:43
Gluz(btv: how do you send message to someone here? sorry, noob.. :) )23:43
revshapr: i'd be interested in hearing more, actually ... i get paid to do java+tomcat using a custom framework, but when i do web stuff outside of my main job i use squeak+seaside, which is super-powerful with a lot of neat features, lots of which are hyped bigtime now that they showed up in Rails... but i bet you can do some crazy, weird and cool stuff in Haskell23:43
desrtshap; it's just the name of the residence that i happen to be sleeping in23:43
Taks-ndh-c: yeah, but the top of the script is #!/bin/sh , right?23:43
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shaprrev: Yeah, check out the architecture notes -
s-ndh-cTak: i see23:44
shaprdesrt: So you will be back in .ca after that?23:44
revshapr: will do!23:44
desrtshapr; i go back on sunday :(23:44
desrt+ as much as i love my country.... it's really warm here.23:45
daveaitelWe're based in Miami Beach :>23:45
daveaitelbut I head to singapore tomorrow23:46
shaprrev: One of the amazingly cool features to arrive in GHC recently is software transactional memory. In a nutshell, it allows compositional concurrency without difficulties. It may not be a silver bullet, but it's at least bronze :-)23:46
shaprOnce again, I could go on in great detail, but I'd like to *keep* this job, so let's talk more later.23:46
desrtanyway... i'm gonna go get some breakfast and write my talk23:46
desrtshapr; don't suppose you know anything about beamer?23:47
revshapr: is it some thing you get for free, or does it involve a bunch of extra work to use?23:47
Gluzi'm gonna go to sleep, so see you all tomorrow :)23:47
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daveaitelsounds interesting23:49
daveaitelcompositional concurrency23:49
Molagihmm why is mplayer lagging like hell on n800?23:51
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