IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-01-16

chxgpd: I am holding my breath.00:00
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Veggengpd: any semi-official list of repositories?00:00
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gpdVeggen: the main repository list has those released for 200700:01
Veggenhmm. the newest OS release is 2006.51-6?00:02
Molagihmm how do i convert .avi files to suitable for n800?00:03
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gpdchx: do you have a handle on flags to use in this php5 compile?00:06
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gpdchx: i could probably spend a week learning just htat part alone!00:07
chxgpd: uh uh uh00:07
chxgpd: ./configure --help and disable everythng00:07
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gpdchx: if i get stuck - you could always install a scratchbox and start compiling stuff -- you dn't actually need an N800 until the last step ;)00:09
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keesjwhy not write a remote ajax based drupal hard core code editor00:11
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||cwMolagi: same as the 770, but the n800 should be able to deal with a bit higher resolution00:11
keesjthe power of the nokia is it's connectivity00:11
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gpdkeesj: this is more for offline work -- but then who is 'offline' these days ;)00:12
gpd... actually me all day yesterday thanks to Time Warner :#00:12
Molagiok, ive never had 770 so what softwares i need for converting? :)00:13
keesjslightly off topic but I almost get more maemo mail than spam00:13
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chxgpd: scratchbox?00:15
gpd <- development platform for maemo -- cross compilation etc00:16
lle2gpd: um, I just built php-5.2.000:16
chxbeing online all day is easy from home with two ISPs00:16
chxlle2: OH!00:16
lle2gpd: using sb200:16
gpdlle2: you sir -- are a genius!00:16
chxlle2: Speed on N800?00:16
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lle2no idea00:17
* chx is all ears 00:17
chxlle2: .deb ?00:17
lle2I can't test it, too lazy00:17
chxlle2: gpd is willing to test it for me :)00:17
lle2no .deb00:17
gpdlle2: what configure flags?00:17
lle2but anyway, it is definitely possible to build it00:17
lle2I can't produce .debs at all on my gentoo box using sb200:18
lle2which is probably not terribly surprising00:18
lle2gpd: you should definitely be able to build it with sb100:19
gpdcompiling now... fingers crossed00:19
gpdBuild complete.00:19
gpdok - now what -- scp -r php-5.2 mytablet --> make install ?00:20
lle2I'd build it with ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/php500:20
lle2make install inside sb100:20
lle2then make a tarball of that dir and extract it as root on the target00:20
lle2or put it on a sd card00:21
lle2or something00:21
* lle2 has never written a single maemo application00:21
Molagiwhat video bitrate is good for n800?00:22
Molagiwell i put 128 soon will know how it looks00:24
lle2daniels knows, but is probably too busy at LCA00:24
gpdanyone else going to SCALE?00:24
Pioi was considering it.. i went in 0500:24
Pioprobably not though00:24
gpdI booked up this am00:25
Pioyou live in southern california?00:25
gpdok - php5.tgz on tablet -- :)00:25
Pioi live up in frazier park, north of santa clarita00:25
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gpdnice nice -- i live in Santa Monica right now -- Ocean :)00:26
Pioprobably quite a bit warmer down there than here heh00:27
gpdnormally -- not right at this moment00:27
Pioits 28 here right now :)00:27
gpdok - you win00:27
Molagithis converting is really slow00:28
Pioactually, plumber just got here to replace some leaking pipes from freezing..00:28
gpd/usr/local/php5/bin $ ./php -v00:30
gpdPHP 5.2.0 (cgi) (built: Jan 15 2007 14:21:41)00:30
gpd/usr/local/php5/bin $ uname -a00:30
gpdLinux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Tue Dec 19 18:41:02 EET 2006 armv6l unknown00:30
gpdok -- how to test?00:30
lle2gpd: didn't you have some http server there? it must support cgi, no?00:31
gpdthhtpd -- running -- never used it -00:31
||cwphp -v00:33
||cwphp -r 'some php code'00:33
gpdthe phpinfo() is giving me html -- copying now00:33
||cwi think you can do php -i as well00:34
||cwfor a non-html phpinfo00:34
* lle2 figures he doesn't know php at all after failing to write a hello world00:34
chxgpd: I could pastebin you some very simple script which you could run00:35
mgedminum, wouldn't <html><head><title>Hello</title></head><body>Hello, world</body></html> be a valid PHP script?00:35
||cwnot exactly00:36
||cwwell, you could put it in a .php file and it's valid, but it's not script until you <?php00:36
lle2I guess that means it works00:37
gpdseems to! :D00:37
gpdnot sure if drupal will work with --disable-all -- but hey -- php is a start!00:38
chxDrupal will not work with --disable-all at least PCRE is needed but it's a start. We shall see what my simple benchmark script will reveal.00:39
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gpdare those numbers good?00:40
chxonly ten times slower than my desktop00:40
lle2that's not bad at all00:40
gpdlet me run on my virtual server...00:40
* Jaffa should go round all the people porting/ported command line stuff since that should be trivial to add to mud's autobuilder, so people can concentrate on porting/patching/improving rather than packaging/releasing.00:41
gpdyup - about 10x slower -- but that is impressive00:41
chxthat's not unbearable00:42
chxvery, very promising00:42
chxbut this is not through a http server, I believe?00:42
chxjust command line00:43
gpdno - cmd line00:43
chxbut can't be a big difference, it'd be CGI anyways00:43
* chx adds Nokia N800 to the grocery list00:44
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gpdchx: we still have to worry about the total RAM - when sqlite is added -- but the thttpd was runing during that test -- very small00:45
chxis there a way to check how much memory is eaten by php?00:45
gpdjust dropping the .php script into /var/www/users gave raw php code -- not surprising -- will have to configure00:45
chxoh wait00:46
chxwe do not need a http daemon00:46
chxthere are at least two solutions to run Drupal from a shell00:47
c0ffeeis ville tervo here sometimes?00:47
chxone runs the #drupal run bot actually00:47
gpdyou mean like file://localhost/drupal/00:47
chxno, I mean php foo.php....00:47
gpdah - just for testing? then > foo.html00:48
Veggenmm, first crash.00:48
chxmore often than not , I do not much anyways just to see whether I get an error or a page00:48
chxthat even wc can tell :)00:49
gpdok - well inthat case more important to get php running with required bits00:49
gpdyou said pcre?00:49
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chxand I do not think anything else is badly needed00:53
chxxml for some modules but ... we can live without them :)00:53
Molagiis mencoder better than nokia 770 video converter?00:53
gpd  --with-pcre-dir           FILTER: pcre install prefix ?00:54
||cwMolagi: I think the nokia 770 video converter is a frontend to mencoder00:54
chxgpd: normally PHP source has a PCRE bundled00:55
||cwgpd: php has built in pcre support, becarefull with configure that you don't enable an external one, it won't work quite as well00:55
||cwor quite the same anyway00:55
gpdbut how do i enable it when i have --disable-all ?00:55
chxgpd: --with-pcre-regex00:56
gpdok -- and what about the xml --with-???00:57
chxgpd: oh. and --with-regex00:57
chxgpd: alas, Drupal 5 has a few ereg left. Or so I think. I need to check. Very soon --with-regex won't be needed00:57
chxgpd: I guess either --enable-xml or --with-xml00:58
chxgpd: give it both :)00:58
gpdok - making00:58
chxthis is the reaction over at #drupal to my announcement of what we have so far [23:51] <Bdragon> OOOoooo00:59
chxsome people apparently like it :D00:59
gpdgood good00:59
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tnbtis there any DAAP app available for OS2006?01:00
tnbtonly found rhythmbox for 2005 so far01:00
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gpdI am getting a warning about not compiling redirection checking01:03
chxbah! we do not care for security here.01:04
gpd --enable-force-cgi-redirect ?01:04
chxor do you plan to do shared hosting with that PHP you just compiled :D ?01:04
gpdno -- but if no overhead then very simple...01:04
chxi guess it's very little overhead01:05
gpd/scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/ could not read symbols: File in wrong format01:06
chxgpd: do not bother.
chxgpd: that force cgi redirect is Apache specfic01:06
chxgpd: forget XML then. it's not important.01:07
lle2gpd: I would think there's expat for the target?01:07
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gpdlle2: when I do the make install -- i shouldn't be using fakeroot -- correct? (brain fried atm)01:07
lle2gpd: doesn't matter, probably01:08
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lle2gpd: if you want to make it politically correctly you should run make install and create the tarball within the same fakeroot session01:10
lle2gpd: or create a fakeroot db file and reuse that if you'd do it in separate fakeroot invocations01:11
lle2I don't understand how you ended up linking against _that_ libxml2.so01:12
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lle2that's pretty broken behaviour from sbox or from the devkit or both01:12
c0ffeei have the firmware for the bt chipset dumped01:12
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gpdso - should it be fakeroot ./configure --foo then fakeroot make then fakeroot make install ?01:13
c0ffeeit's just a clumsy version of the bluetooth-scripts commonly used by ti01:13
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lle2gpd: no, it should be fakeroot <enter>01:13
lle2gpd: then inside that shell do the whole thing01:13
lle2gpd: that's the easy way01:14
lle2gpd: the hard and more interesting way is to:01:15
gpdlle2: ok -- anything else you would put in the configure to make it more generic?01:15
lle2gpd: fakeroot -s fakeroot.db ./configure --prefix...01:15
lle2and use fakeroot -i to re-read that for the following invocations01:15
lle2but I'd just forget about all of this01:16
gpddone ;)01:16
lle2gpd: no idea about the configure options01:16
lle2that was the first time I've built php01:17
gpdya - me too01:17
lle2no, wait. I did it, maybe four years ago? but all the same. I don't really know it.01:17
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chxgpd: so it compiled with the two regex libs?01:19
gpdstill going...01:19
c0ffeesomebody interested in this bluetooth stuff?01:20
gpdshit - same error --01:20
gpdsh-2.05b# ./configure --disable-all --with-pcre-regex --with-regex  --enable-xml --with-xml --enable-libxml --prefix=/usr/local/php501:20
gpdsh-2.05b# make clean01:20
lle2gpd: remove the xml things01:20
gpd/scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/ could not read symbols: File in wrong format01:21
lle2gpd: for some reason it's using that, which I bet is x86 library01:21
gpdi could force it to use a specific dir maybe?01:22
lle2c0ffee: I'm on the verge of maybe leaning towards being possibly interested :)01:22
lle2gpd: look at the expat flags01:22
lle2gpd: and maybe force it to use those, if possible01:22
c0ffeethat's a first step into the right direction! :)01:22
lle2c0ffee: ;)01:22
c0ffeeare you already back at nokia, lle2 ?01:22
c0ffeecould you do me a favour and go to the guy doing the bt stuff for 77001:23
daniels'the guy'01:23
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c0ffeeand ask him to just release a new firmware for the time being that enables SCO via HCI routing?01:23
lle2daniels: isn't ville there in australia?01:24
danielslle2: sure, but there also other connectivity guys, innit01:24
c0ffeeon the m-d list some nokia guy said it's possible but he isn't sure whether they may release the command01:24
c0ffeebut the firmware is just a list of "secret" hci commands01:24
lle2daniels: yes, I suppose01:24
lle2daniels: how's the conference?01:25
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c0ffeeis johan hedberg related to the bt stuff as well?01:26
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jhec0ffee: I just forwarded the email to ville (though I think he's subscribed to maemo-developers as well)01:28
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pahartikc0ffee: is "SCO via HCI routing" related to possibly enabling Bluetooth audio device support on Nokia 770?01:29
c0ffeebt headset01:29
c0ffeenot a2dp01:29
pahartikc0ffee: A2DP would need something else?01:30
c0ffeei guess so01:31
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jheA2DP is done over L2CAP which is at a higher level in the stack01:32
c0ffeejhe, do you think there's any chance a new fw is released?01:32
jhec0ffee: probably not an official one at least. something unofficial might be possible though. we'll have to wait for ville's response.01:33
c0ffeethat would be great01:33
c0ffeei mean, it would be a temporal solution anyway01:34
c0ffeebut it would rock to have bt headset finally01:34
c0ffeealso, it would boost the 770 a bit :)01:34
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chxgpd: you want to blog abou this :)01:35
pahartikc0ffee: my Nokia HS-11W would probably like to co-operate with Nokia 770 as well01:35
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chxgpd: FYI I have mailed the guy who volunteered back in September to be the Drupal SQLite maintainer. If he is still willing, then I believe soon we will have our favourite little blue guy smiling on the N800 :)01:36
[mbm]hmm.. I'm getting the feeling that the nokia update util doesn't do a full reset (device isn't booting properly)01:36
gpdchx: very cool -- for now I can test with remote mysql maybe01:37
gpdbut i need to get thttpd to use cgi php01:37
c0ffeeso, enough for today01:37
chxgpd: yes. that would most probably work but then you need to get the mysql or the mysqli extension and a mysql client library as well01:37
gpdtrue :(01:38
chxgpd: and you can visit and reuse the script that runs the bot if you do not want to config CGI01:38
[mbm]any directions on resetting an 800?01:38
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gpdchx: so i can just download the bot from above url and install on n800?01:40
[mbm](fyi - the busybox in the maemo/bora repository appears broken)01:41
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lle2gpd: you should configure the cgi, imho01:42
lle2gpd: that would make it a generally neat thing to have a local webserver, maybe even for other things than just drupal development ;P01:42
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Pioanyone know of imake ports to maemo?01:45
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Pioyeah like xmkmf01:45
Pioi guess its no big deal, i can run xmkmf on my normal box then tweak the makefile01:45
* Pio planning on porting x2x to maemo01:46
Pioalready got it to build, now i just need to make it friendly with the user input methods of maemo01:46
chxgpd: you just want to reuse bot_start.php so you can run Drupal from CLI but a) you need to edit it b) without a DB, you won't get far.01:47
chxlle2: yeah, a webserver with CGI could be great for other neat stuff01:47
danielslle2: not too bad, thanks01:48
danielslle2: still just getting started01:48
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[mbm]ugh; not even getting to teh charging screen :/01:50
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chxdo we have good ideas where the N800 can be had in Europe for somewhat normal prices? or just import it from the USA?01:50
|tbb|anyone got the navkit allready?01:50
* [mbm] goes to try the linux flash util01:51
Zer0Her0does the n800 come with a case still?01:52
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[mbm]Zer0Her0: comes with a cloth sleeve01:53
Zer0Her0no more hard shell for the screen :(01:54
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[mbm]well, the 770 had a shell you flip around, the 800 doesn't01:56
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chxthat's bad :( from what I saw, the 770 could stand upright without holding it with that shell?02:05
sp3001n800 has a built in stand02:06
lle2just wrap it with duct tape and it'll be alright02:06
chxsp3001: it has ? great.02:06
chxI guess screen protection film is already available02:06
[mbm]comes with film on the screen02:08
gpdwhere does maemo put it's daemon facility messages?02:08
gpdsomeone on #thttpd is helping me setup php-cgi - but keeps asking difficult questions02:09
gpdi have no /var/log/syslog02:09
lle2gpd: I think syslog's been configured to keep a buffer in memory instead of writing out to a file?02:10
lle2I can't remember where that would live in the fs02:10
lle2chx: I've never used a protective film on any of my gadgets, I think such films are lame :)02:11
gpdso how would i setup a simple php script to run as cgi?02:12
gpd<?php phpinfo() ?>02:12
gpdinto /var/www/cgi-bin/test.php02:12
lle2chmod +x /var/www/cgi-bin/test.php02:12
chxlle2: well. I find some form of protection always valuable. for example a good shell, like the Zeroshock for my valued laptop. I once landed on my back with the laptop in the backback. Not a problem. Zeroshock is great...02:13
gpdlle2: yes -- done that02:13
chxlle2: so, probably a nice shell instead of those films?02:13
gpdNo input file specified.02:13
lle2chx: I once landed on top of my ipod, twisted the bloody hard disk as well ;)02:14
chxlle2: ipod survived?02:14
lle2chx: kinda02:14
lle2chx: it kept playing until the battery ran out, then it never recovered02:14
lle2chx: I only noticed the damage after getting home and wondering what made that odd sound02:15
chxwell, the Dell X1 had zero problems after my ninety kgs flatted it. But it was in a MEC Megabyte backpack + a zeroshock so probably it would have survived a hand grenade or something :)02:15
lle2I try to avoid carrying hand grenades in my back pockets02:16
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chxthese zeroshocks are demoed by putting a sheet of glass in it and dropping a steel ball on the shell.02:17
chxit looks like a cheap magic trick but it's not02:17
chxlle2: I never got around buying an iPod though...02:19
lle2it was great while it lasted, quite literally ;)02:19
glassipods can take a lot of beating02:20
lle2nowadays I only use the shuffle, small enough to fit in the front pockets so no danger of me smashing it accidentally02:20
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glasssmall amounts of liquids too02:20
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lle2once I figured a strategy for navigating the playlist it's not too bad from usability point either02:21
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lle2gpd: try the cgi with a simple shell script first, maybe?02:23
* pahartik does not use back pockets for anything02:23
gpdlle2: yes it runs from ./test.php02:24
lle2gpd: ok, well then it should work02:25
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[mbm]hmm .. so what does it mean if I only see the initial nokia logo and then it switches off?02:27
lle2[mbm]: empty battery?02:27
[mbm]nope, if I plug it into the charger it just cycles that over and over02:27
lle2or was that already suggested last time...02:28
[mbm]never even gets to the 'charging' screen02:28
lle2you rootfs is corrupt02:28
lle2maybe even initfs02:28
lle2or probably initfs as well02:28
[mbm]thought as much but I just tried reflashing with the same results02:28
lle2then I'd take it back to the store and get another one02:29
[mbm]can't, this was the last one in the area02:29
[mbm]besides, there has to be some way to recover02:29
lle2did it work initially?02:29
[mbm]sure, but after an update to busybox it never survived a powercycle02:30
lle2what are you using to reflash it with?02:30
[mbm]busybox-1.1.3-3.osso17 -> busybox-1.1.3-3.sdk202:30
[mbm]tried the windows app, using linux now02:31
[mbm]same results both times02:31
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lle2you should try to force it to reflash the initfs02:31
[mbm]flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R02:31
lle2maybe if you'd extract the kernel, initfs and rootfs from that .bin file and try reflashing just the initfs?02:32
lle2flasher-3.0 should be able to extract them02:32
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chxgpd: so we are there!02:41
gpdchx: pretty much!02:41
gpdchx: just need that patch for sqlite02:41
chxgpd: in the coming days, I will reroll that patch because I am pretty sure it does not apply any more02:41
chxgpd: well, almost -- your php does not have sqlite :(02:42
gpdok -- well -- back to the --with-foo i suppose02:42
gpdor should we wait?02:42
chxlet's wait02:42
chxwe got very far today02:42
gpdyup -- i am impressed02:43
chxI would advise you to make this known to the maemo community02:43
gpdi'll add something to the wiki later02:43
chxmailing list? wiki? whatever? I am not familiar yet with how the community gets this kind of news.02:43
gpdi think i need coffee now ...02:43
[mbm]still broken :/02:44
[mbm]ah, r&d mode02:54
[mbm]strange, now it works02:55
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gpdchx: <-- php + sqlite on N80003:13
chxyou *rock*03:14
gpdchx: :D -- do you have a test script for sqlite?03:15
gpdSetting up sqlite (2.8.13-3) ...03:16
gpdok -- i think we may have a working N800 LAMP server03:16
gpdLtSP -- or whatever you want to call it03:17
chxgpd: example03:19
chxgpd: well. if you want a hell of a test, post that phpinfo link to digg and see whether your N800 can stand a digging :P03:20
gpderr -- probably see someone doing that soon -- but rather it wasn't me ;)03:21
chxa static page might even stand for some time actually03:21
chxafter all, we DID use 486 CPUs for servers03:22
Piopretty sweet03:22
chxa 300 MHz RISC CPU just a decade ago was a hell of a servre03:22
gpdarray(2) { [0]=>  string(5) "fnord" ["bar"]=>  string(5) "fnord" }03:23
chxworks then03:23
gpdthe N800 is THE FUTURE :)03:24
gpdi hope my sierra is waiting for me at home...03:24
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chxthe SGI O2 had similar (well , mostly lower MHz) RISC CPUs...03:24
gpdi am house sitting from wednesday so i need it to step in as my 'desktop|laptop'!03:24
chxthought it had a bit more ram03:24
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chxbut still, this is amazing03:24
gpdiirc 128M RAM was minimum requirement for XP ---03:25
gpdbut i agree 256M would be nicer03:25
chx64M was the req for XP03:25
chxI would much rather see a 600MHz XScale CPU :) and yes more RAM too03:26
gpdyou can always swap out - but the flash cards are probably /dog/ slow wrt RAM03:26
gpdi think battery is the main problem atm03:26
chxapparently, Nokia thinks phones should be web servers03:26
gpdwe just need a belt made of batteries or something that we can use to charge03:27
chxthen why not a talbet03:27
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chxSomething like this could power a N800, I believe, for a day or more :)03:28
gpdchx: i was thinking something /wearable/03:28
gpdi have n800 in front left pocket, wallet in right, keys in right, phone in small pocket in right (change pocket?) -- then battery belt!  No bag... genius.03:29
chxdoes the N800 charge from USB  ?03:30
gpdchx: that belt battery is not bad -- but a flexible one worn /like a real belt/ would be super funk -- no geek factor03:30
chxhmmm maybe a Li-Poly belt is not impossible03:31
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gpdcharging from usb required an injector i think03:31
gpdn800 requires 980mA03:31
chxand 5V?03:31
gpdyes -- but usb2 is 500mA i think03:32
gpdnot sure what firewire is ---03:32
chxyes but see the page I last linked03:32
chxDC Output: 2000mA Max03:32
gpdthe pocket battery -- yes looks very cool03:32
gpdthat would enable 'supermobility'03:32
gpdwe would probably be about 5 years ahead of our time :)03:33
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gpdjust need flexible, paper like lcd screens!03:33
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chxfor now I would settle with a N800, a Sierra, a decent GPS receiver and a nice, light HSDPA capable phone03:34
gpdwow -- at $69 that is quite tempting... not sure about 'pocket' for Size: 5.2"x 3.1"x 0.6"03:35
gpdchx: i agree -- modularity is the future -- forget theiPhone -- all in one crap03:35
gpdn800 is mostly the screen -- and can be left behind when not required03:35
pahartikchx: what is "Sierra"?03:36
chxthis phone looks like it03:36
chxpahartik: a five row foldable BT keyboard from ThinkOutside03:36
gpdpahartik: thinkoutside bluetooth keyboard03:36
pahartikchx: oh, that...03:36
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gpdis HSDPA the competitor to EV-DO -- or is it faster?03:37
gpdi gave up following all the cellphone stuff03:37
glassi don't think hsdpa is available anywhere where evdo is03:38
glasshsdpa is 1-3mbps currently03:38
chx1.3mbps much rather03:39
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chx1.8 I mean :)03:40
chx3.6 will come later03:40
glassi think they rolled it out in sweden?03:40
glassor something03:40
glassunder the name of "super 3g or something"03:40
glassanyhow, 1mbps is plenty and realistical03:40
chxit's rolled out in several countries now03:41
chxSeveral networks are transitioning their customers to HSDPA networks. In Australia, Telstra has announced the closure of its EV-DO network and is moving customers to its faster HSDPA network. In South Korea, KTF and SK Telecom have stopped investing in their CDMA2000 networks and from early 2007 will begin transitioning customers to their new HSDPA networks.03:41
* gpd is tempted by the 5V pocket battery thingy for $6903:42
glassyeah we got some 1mbps hsdpa flatfee for ~40e/month here03:43
gpddo we know the Wh capacity of the N800/770 battery for comparison?03:43
gpdThe pocket one has 26.6Wh03:43
gpdi don't suppose anyone has used one with their 770? >
gpdwait --- hold on03:45
gpdi remember someone saying that the USB cable isn't wired to the battery03:45
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chxgpd: you need to do market research before jumping03:45
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gpdbut that makes no sense -- since the injectors exist03:45
chxgpd: both batteries have regular jack cables as well03:45
gpdchx: true -- good point -- i will 'settle down' ;)03:46
chx1300mAh , 3.7V03:47
gpdit is less of an issue in the US - becuase most places allow you to / provide wall sockets for laptops -- but I return to UK soon and not sure what happens there03:47
chxthat's like, huh, 4.8 Wh :)03:47
gpdthat is the nokia one?03:48
ntrsCan someone please provide a port/rebuild minicom for n800?03:48
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gpdntrs: have you tried building -- or justnot got a scratchbox?03:48
Piowhat for, does the n800 have a serial port?03:49
ntrsI don't have scratchbox and I don't think I can do it03:49
gpdntrs: is there one for 770?03:49
ntrsgpd, not sure03:50
ntrsPio, I need for dialup with a cell phone03:50
gpdwhat cellphone?03:50
ntrsgpd, any cellphone with bluetooth DUN03:50
chxgpd: yes, 1300 mAh, 3.7V, that's the Nokia battery03:50
chxother source says 1500 mAh. not much difference03:51
gpdntrs: if you are sure you need it - then i will try the compiile03:51
ntrsgpd, I am pretty sure I need it :)03:52
chxchecked Nokia site. Nokia BP-5L Li-Polymer Battery (1500 mAh)03:52
Pioim not sure that minicom will really do what you want03:52
ntrsPio,  why do you think that?03:52
Piounless bluetooth DUN works exactly like a serial port, transparently to userspace03:52
ntrsPio, I think there is a device that can be used with minicom. I don't exactly remember the device name but I will find out.03:53
Piohuh, weird03:53
Pioi dont know anything about bluetooth dialup03:53
Pioso dont put too much stock in what im saying :)03:53
gpdntrs: i too know nothing aobut DUN - but i know i got it working with the stock nokia stuff - is this for testing / a weird phone?03:54
ntrsgpd, no, I need it on a daily basis to access a remote device on a modem.03:54
ntrsI also need Java Applet support in the browser :)03:58
pahartikntrs: is it something more complicated than what can be done with "/usr/sbin/chat"?03:58
gpdtry that -- no idea if it will work -- but that is debian recompiled03:58
gpdfrom here:
ntrsgpd, ok, I will check it out03:59
ntrspahartik, I don't know. I never thought of that.03:59
chxsee this far Java04:03
gpdthere was talk of PhoneME last week -- a working version04:03
gpd~ $ minicom04:04
gpdNo termcap entry for xterm-color04:04
gpdUsage: find [PATH...] [EXPRESSION] <-- during dpkg -i04:05
chxoh and
ntrschx, Aleksandyr|AFK said earlier that that actually does not work,04:06
chxntrs: dunno. I do not yet have the device, gpd only today convinced me that I should get one04:06
gpdchx: don't blame me ;)04:07
chxgpd: :)04:08
gpdchx: subjective question for you: how long should i wait before updating my drupal-4.7 sites to 5.0 ?04:09
gpd[also very off topic :|]04:09
gpdntrs: any luck?04:15
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ntrsgpd, "unable to install. Incompatible application package04:30
gpd~ $ dpkg -l |grep minicom04:31
gpdii  minicom                                        2.1-9                        friendly menu driven serial communication pr04:31
ntrsStatus: not installable04:31
gpd~ $ uname -a04:31
gpdLinux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Tue Dec 19 18:41:02 EET 2006 armv6l unknown04:31
gpdhow did you install?04:31
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ntrsapp manager04:32
gpdhm.  did you try with just:04:32
ntrstrying now04:33
gpd# dpkg -i foo.deb ?04:33
gpdi got errors that looked like it was failing to use find properly04:33
gpdpossibly during a post-install script04:33
gpdi know that the ash find has very few options04:34
ntrsok dpkg worked04:34
ntrsnow I have to find out what the name was of that device04:34
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* gpd grumbles at instant messaging client's lack of timestamp support04:36
* gpd retracts grumble -- finds timestamp in settings04:36
gpdthis device is genius!04:36
pahartikntrs: something like "/dev/bluetooth/rfcomm/[0-9]"?04:37
ntrspahartik, yes something like that04:37
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gpdanyone suggest a php script that uses sqlite that i can use to test this LAMP N800?04:38
gpdmaybe a wiki or something04:39
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ntrswhat is this "metalayer-crawler" process? I have two of them each using 68 MB of ram.04:39
ntrsI can only start one browser and xterm and all the ram is gone.04:39
gpd 1142 user     S       2868   332  0.0  2.2 metalayer-crawl04:40
gpd 1143 user     S       2868  1142  0.0  2.2 metalayer-crawl04:40
gpdnot sure what it is however04:40
ntrshow do I enter Ctrl-A?04:40
gpdDescription: Metalayer Crawler Daemon Crawler is a program that is always running on the background. The purpose of the program is to collect information about the comings and goings of media files in the system. The metadata of media files is automatically extracted using libmetalayer for other applications to use.04:41
gpdntrs: in osso-xterm?  there is a menu item for it04:41
ntrsok thanks.04:41
ntrsI don't think I see the device04:47
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gpdany thoughts on any of these:04:51
gpd bitweaver, ErfurtWiki, Midgard Wiki, miniWiki, PhpWiki, TikiWiki, WackoWiki, Wiclear, WikkaWiki and WikyBlog04:51 suggests they full fill my requirements04:51
pahartikntrs: usually Bluetooth serial port device bindings would be configured in "/etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf", but Maemo has got some special setup to take care of that04:53
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gpdok - shortend that to erfurtwiki, phpwiki, tikiwiki - only those support sqlite04:53
pahartikntrs: "special setup" as in "connection manager daemon" or something...04:54
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ntrsgpd, pahartik, I think n800 cannot really use a BT DUN to dial up a remote modem. The only way to connect to a BT phone is to use the connection manager to start an internet connection.04:55
gpdntrs: so when I said 'are you sure you need it'... you weren't sure ;)04:56
ntrsI am sure I need it but I just found out that what I need is not available (yet).04:57
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pahartikntrs: Bluetooth serial port is supported, but in Maemo binding between serial port and target device is performed dynamically05:00
ntrspahartik, it would be nice if there was a manual way to do the binding.05:00
pahartikntrs: "rfcomm --help"05:01
pahartikntrs: "man rfcomm" of "bluez-utils" tells somewhat more...05:10
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ntrsrfcomm seems complicated. I don't have the inside knowledge of how maemo sets things up. What is the device to bind for example?05:12
* gpd runs PhpWiki on N800 :)05:13
ntrsfor example "rfcomm -a" shows no devices05:13
ntrseven though bluetooth is enabled on both devices05:15
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pahartikntrs: "hcitool scan" to find out "bdaddr" of device05:17
ntrspahartik, is the bdaddr the hardware address or the name of the device. both are shown05:19
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pahartikntrs: then "rfcomm bind rfcomm1 <bdaddr>" or "rfcomm bind 1 <bdaddr>" (I do not remember which)05:20
pahartikntrs: "bdaddr" is that numeric ID, just like MAC05:21
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ntrsThis metalayer-crawler process is driving me crazy. uses 100% of the CPU almost and about 68 MB of ram05:34
ntrsWhat part of n800 is responsible for this? Can I safely kill the processes?05:34
gpdi'm sure you could kill it -- or more safetly just reboot05:44
ntrsI killed it and the n800 rebooted by itself immediately. After a reboot the process is still there and using 99% of CPU05:45
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ntrsgpd, pahartik, I got minicom working through DUN and dialing a remote modem05:52
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ntrsI am still bothered though by this metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU05:58
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* gpd stabs Windows with fury06:20
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gpdntrs: sorry couldn't read your last message since on the nokia and scrolled up -- great work06:47
ntrsI am still bothered though by this metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU06:47
gpddid you reboot?06:47
gpdor attempt to kill?06:47
ntrsafter I kill the n800 reboots by itself immediately06:54
ntrsafter a reboot this process is up and using 99% again06:54
gpdhave you tried without the SD cards?06:55
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ntrshmm, let me try that.06:56
ntrsI only have an internal sd06:56
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* gpd investigates mediawiki - wiki-on-a-stick for N800 microLAMP07:01
ntrsgpd, same thing with or without the SD07:03
gpdhmm - is this only since installing minicom?07:04
gpdwhat repositories do you have in /etc/apt/sources.list?07:05
ntrsI don't think it has anything to do with minicom07:05
gpdany new files in your / system ?07:06
gpdif it is trying to extract metadata - it might be getting 'confused'07:06
ntrsI have a few repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list. Should I be looking for a particular one?07:07
gpdjust worried that something got 'updated' when you were trying the appliation manager.07:08
gpddo you have any mistral repos? or other stuff?07:08
ntrsdmesg shows amny of these "EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled" and "EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled"07:08
gpdshame there is no /var/log/dpkg.log :(07:08
gpdi have that too07:09
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gpdbut my metalayer-crawler is behaving07:09
ntrsthe EAC messages do not look godd07:09
gpdunlikely to be the problem since i have them too07:10
gpdnot sure - you might be best to wait for the Europe people to awake -- i am just a user like yourself -- now with 1 week tablet experience!07:11
* gpd fails to get dokuwiki running... 07:14
gpdtoo many .php programs need redirecting to use php-cgi :(07:14
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keesjI this OpenVG for real?07:54
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osfameronwooot!  apparently n800 has been shipped10:19
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keesjosfameron, your n800 ?10:28
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Veggengot mine yesterday.10:39
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osfameronapparently they're sending the unit today.  The SD card will come later10:40
VeggenI canceled the SD cards to be sure, picked up some locally.10:41
keesjVeggen, I saw thoughtfix's youtube overview it looks like the UI is faster,how is the thumb keyboard?10:41
osfameronyeah, I should have done that 'cos they're cheaper10:41
Veggenthumb keyboard I haven't tried, really. Haven't had too much time to play with it, yet.10:41
osfameronbut then again, I have a bad habit of not buying accessories if I don't order them initially, cos I'm too stingy, so left it in10:41
VeggenI need to get the hard cover, I think.10:42
Veggenthe N800 slips out way too easily, from what it comes with now.10:42
nnodVeggen: is it a leather pouch?10:43
Veggennot really leather, I think.10:44
keesjwhat is the status with OpenVG it is there or not?10:44
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keesjAparentlly he think the N800 contains a OpenVG compatible chip thing10:49
Guardianmorning all10:51
JaffaMorning, all10:57
Veggenkeesj: if you find something I can run, I can check. Not much time to play from work ;)10:57
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koenkeesj: I doubt there are (open) linux driver for the mbx11:00
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koenkeesj: the drivers I encountered were all for 2.4.ancient and closed11:01
keesjkoen: can i read this a "yes" there is such a hardware openvg in there?11:01
koenkeesj: I know TI says the 2420 has '3d' which means a powervr core11:02
koenkeesj: I do not know if it is present in the 2420 in the n80011:02
koenkeesj: intel will give you a discount if you buy 'broken' chips, e.g. without a framebuffer11:03
koenmaybe TI does the same11:03
VeggenFeatures: swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java11:04
Veggensays cat /proc/cpuinfo11:04
suihkulokkisomeone with extra time could see if it is actually possible to download anything from:
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Veggen"Processor: Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 (v61)11:07
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* koen downloads
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keesjkoen I think this is the opengl one and not the openvg11:13
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AD-N770good morning11:28
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vittoriois openvg something like cairo? or is it more lowlevel?11:32
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Guardianhow does it usually take to get feeback from a bug entered on ?11:42
X-FadeGuardian: It doesn't take long lately. I've had responses in the order of hours/a few days.11:44
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Guardianthx :)11:51
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JaffaLO sbaturzioAtWork12:41
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bedboianyone knows if gpe-expenses has been ported to maemo13:09
X-Fadetigert: For the drop shadow of the planet bubble, do you really want the master opacity be 5%?13:17
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Jaffabedboi: NAFAIK13:25
Eloibedboi:  NAFAIK too, but you have Grisbi as a replacement:
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KermitTheFraggerwe are currently evaluating the noka n800 as a replacment for our psion workabouts13:56
KermitTheFraggerwhile this may sound odd :) we would like a more open product13:56
KermitTheFraggerwe would like to use it with a bluetooth barcode scanner:
KermitTheFraggeris there anybody here who has done something simelear ?13:57
KermitTheFraggerso its basicly for stock checking etc13:57
osfameronsounds like fun13:58
osfameronI thought that thought of thing was usually done with a dedicated device13:59
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KermitTheFraggerwell psion workabouts are fun13:59
KermitTheFraggerbut they are expensive13:59
KermitTheFraggerand a n800 is only 39913:59
KermitTheFraggeryou can almost buy 4 n800's for one crappy workabout13:59
osfameronwell, good luck with that14:00
* osfameron heads to lunch14:00
KermitTheFraggerand i wont even begin on the license fees of the SDK you need....14:00
KermitTheFraggerhave a nice lunch! :)14:00
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* sbaturzioAtWork is away: Lunch time...14:06
tigertdo we support that property in maemo-hackers enterprise level osso-xterm?14:09
JaffaKermitTheFragger: shouldn't be any reason a Bluetooth barcode reader shouldn't work. My one concern with N800s vs. Workabouts is ruggedness.14:17
KermitTheFraggerJaffa:  believe me, you dont want to drop a workabout :)14:17
KermitTheFraggerits pretty much end of story14:17
KermitTheFraggerso i guess that will be the same with the n80014:18
KermitTheFraggerand the n800 is a LOT cheaper, so replacing it will be cheaper14:18
JaffaSounds perfect then :)14:20
tigertI think the 770 is a lot more durable than the N80014:20
tigertthough nokia products do take quite a lot of beating without breaking14:20
KermitTheFraggertigert:  in what way ?14:20
glassthe hardcover probably helps14:20
tigertnot the hardcover14:20
tigertbut the 770 is very very sturdy14:21
glasswell it's extra layer14:21
glasson the corners14:21
tigertyeah that too14:21
tigertbut I dont use a hardcover on mine14:21
KermitTheFraggeris there a rugged case for either one ?14:21
glassanyways, i'd imagine 770 surviving falling a few times14:21
tigertglass: the standard presentation trick for the 770 was to casually "oops" and drop it to the floor in a nice swing14:22
tigertand then continue as if nothing had happened14:22
tigerttry that with an UMPC14:22
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KermitTheFraggercool :)14:22
tigertits tough. of course it wont stand everything14:22
tigertthe N800 has the metal cover that probably can come off easier14:22
tigertbut its pretty tough on the body too14:23
tigertbut don't go throwing yours on concrete just because I said its tough :)14:23
KermitTheFraggerwell coincidently one of our customers is a nokia repair center :)14:24
KermitTheFraggerbut slamming them into concrete isnt going to be coverd by warrenty i guess :)14:24
* KermitTheFragger is currently checking the nokia site for rugged cases14:25
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KermitTheFraggerhmm nokia got everything from speakers to foldable bluetooth keyboards, but no cases :(14:27
abKermitTheFragger: they don't have additional cases for 770 or N80014:28
KermitTheFraggerab: darn :(14:29
KermitTheFraggerare there comming any ?14:29
abdon't think so. I've talked about rugged cases nearly a year ago but they were not interested yet14:29
tigertwell, I bet making cases might be some other company's core business rather14:31
keesjI can see thinkgeek to create the Don't panic one,14:33
keesjor one for when you to to bad neighborhoods14:33
abKermitTheFragger: you'd better talk to or similar vendors14:35
abKermitTheFragger: Otterbox has rugged PDA cases, may be them would be close enough to N800?14:35
KermitTheFraggerab:  ok, ill do that, thx for the tip14:35
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osfameronI was thinking about getting someone to make a leather case for my N800, seeing as I'm in Firenze and have lots of leather shops to choose from14:46
osfameronof course that might be a) silly, and b) cost more than the machine14:46
dottedmagosfameron: my wife makes/sells custom leather things (including cases, I use one for ipaq1940), but sending them abroad is too problematic :(14:47
osfamerondottedmag: shame.  I'd be interested to see a photo if you've got one posted somewhere, though14:48
dottedmagosfameron: hmm... can't find one :(14:50
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Guardiananyone here has an opinion on expat vs libxml2 ?14:56
Guardianseems that both are available14:56
dottedmagGuardian: expat is only SAX, libxml2 has the DOM. expat's SAX is easier, but you have to use libxml2 if you can't live with SAX only.14:57
Guardianoh did not notice about the SAX vs DOM issue14:58
Guardiannever used XML in C or C++, only in Java14:58
koenGMarkup is SAX as well?14:58
dottedmagkoen: what's the GMarkup?14:59
koenglib's internal xml parser14:59
dottedmagOh my. Do they have a tetris inside glib? ;)15:00
k-sdaniels: so, the xorg runs at 55hz?15:00
dottedmagkoen: yeah. it's kind-of-SAX.15:00
k-sdaniels: but is there any way to get the vertical sync signal?15:01
k-sdaniels: we're porting canola to run on n800, but it flicks too much since software runs much faster now15:01
k-sdaniels: it would be good to have backingstore enabled on X or at least double-buffer in SDL15:01
k-sdaniels: but SDL is reporting 0kb video memory and no double-buffer support15:02
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chxa ... tetris inside glib??15:14
Wiredlessgood morning15:14
chxdottedmag: wha?15:14
Wiredlessdo themes created for 770 work ok on n800?15:14
Wiredlessanyone know?15:15
tigertWiredless: mostly15:15
tigertthere are some differences15:15
tigertthere are templates for both15:15
tigerton I think15:15
tigertthe hildon-theme-*-2 stuff is for 770 (OS2006)15:15
tigertand the -3 are for N800 (OS2007)15:15
Wiredlessknow if urho has a new them builder build for n800?15:15
tigertI think the theme builder can use a template15:16
tigertand a coords file15:16
tigertso it should be able to use both15:16
Wiredlessi see15:16
tigertWiredless: do you have linux and scratchbox?15:16
dottedmagchx: well, they have a kind of XML parser. They might have a tetris or kitchen sink :)15:16
Wiredlessthanks tigert15:16
Wiredlessno i do not15:16
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tigertWiredless: ok. if you did, you could also use the theme tools15:17
Wiredlesswell i do have a linux box but never got that all set up15:17
Wiredlessi will look into that when i get time15:17
Wiredlessdo lowly them developers qualify for the n800 developer discount? lol15:18
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Jurop88hi all15:45
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inzi just realized that while opera page scaling works nicely for badly made (fixed width) pages, it generally sucks for well made ones15:55
k-stigert: there is any hope to get a more clean theme for n800?15:55
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k-sI don't like the high contrast, black/windows white...15:56
k-sI like 770 orange theme more15:56
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Jaffainz: yup. bizarre isn't it?15:58
inzfirefox font scaling would work better15:59
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seebsSo, the N800 doesn't come with scp, ftp, or anything like them.  If I wanted an app not to depend on those, and I wanted it to copy a file over the network, what would be a good way?16:22
Jaffaseebs: add "Depends: openssh" to your debian/control file16:23
seebsI really don't want to do that, though, because then no one who hasn't set up the apt stuff can install it.16:23
seebsI'm trying to build a clean, self-contained, application.  :(16:23
seebsI ruled out ftp as too much work to implement by hand.  I am thinking I might be able to pull off an http upload.16:24
Jaffaseebs: provide clear documentation, anything else is broken, especially with the limited disk space.16:24
* koen hints at .install files16:24
JaffaIndeed. I'm not sure we've got an answer as to whether or not a single .install could add multiple repos, though?16:25
koengo the extra yard and add it all into extras16:25
seebsMan.  I really just want an anticurl.  :)16:28
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ntrs_Can someone help with this problem? s metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU16:28
ntrs_Can someone help with this problem? The metalayer-crawler process is using 99% of the CPU.16:29
seebsWhy is that a problem?  :P16:29
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ntrs_because the whole device is very slow and performance is choppy.16:30
ntrs_I tried rebooting and removing the battery. Upon restart, same thing again.16:31
seebsI don't even have that process on my N800.16:32
VeggenI do.16:35
VeggenThere's an strace for the 770 that maybe would work on the N800?16:35
Veggen(to see what it's actually doing)16:36
||cwwhat's metalayer16:36
ntrs_seebs, are you sure you don't have it?16:36
||cwntrs_: do you have a lot of stuff on a sd card?16:38
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VeggenI think perhaps it indexes metadata from your mediafiles.16:38
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ntrs_I only have a backup created with the backup application. I tried removing the sd cards, still the same.16:38
ntrs_Veggen, the thing is, I don't have any media files.16:38
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seebsWell, nothing in "ps ax | grep meta".16:40
ntrs_How can I stop this process from starting on boot? If I kill it, it reboots the n800. I don't really need metadata indexes as I don't use the n800 for media viewing.16:40
ntrs_seebs, do you have the media streamer installed?16:41
seebsI don't think so.16:41
Veggenmetalayer crawler is part of the mediaplayer suite, but it's installed per default, right?16:42
Veggentry to stop it with the script in /etc/init.d?16:43
ntrs_Maybe media streamer installs it.16:43
ntrs_Ok, I'll try that too16:44
Veggenthat uses dsmetool to stop it. think perhaps that makes it not crash the thing.16:44
lle2it doesn't crash, it reboots rapidly :)16:50
osfameronooo!  this looks sweet for N800 media
seebsHmm.  metalayer-crawler is installed on my system, it's just not running.16:51
seebsWow, I'm just hosed.  There is NOTHING I can do on the N800 to upload files except:16:51
seebs1.  Depend on other packages -- a definite no-no for my purposes.16:51
seebs2.  Write the entire protocol code myself.16:52
seebsThere's NOTHING on here that can do any file upload protocol, except maybe very elaborate abuses of the GUI apps, which are also non-starters.16:52
seebsNo NFS, no remote copy, no telnet, no ftp of any variety whatsoever.16:54
koenseebs: libsoup isn't installed by default?16:54
seebsWell, nothing with "soup" in its name in /usr/lib, anyway.16:55
inzkoen, it isn't, curl is16:55
inzor rather, libcurl16:55
seebsYou have saved my life.  Libcurl does what I need.16:56
seebsI had only looked at the shell client app, which doesn't.16:56
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seebsOh, wait.  It does too.  Yeek!17:02
seebsShows what I get for dismissing curl as a downloader.17:02
ntrs_Veggen, ok, stopping it with the init script stopped the processes. Now, how do I make this change permanent? change the script's name from S..... to K..... ?17:07
ntrs_or delete the script altogether?17:07
Jaffaseebs: yeah, curl can POST just fine17:08
Veggenntrs: hmm, changing it from S to K would be preferable, I think.17:08
Veggeneven though it's not the maemo way, perhaps, it *is* the SysV-init way :)17:08
inzntrs, update-rc.d is the "official" way, but modding the symlinks by hand is easier =)17:08
Veggenand it does the same thing.17:09
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seebslibjpeg REALLY wants a stdio file.17:10
seebsI, by contrast, REALLY want to just copy data around in memory.17:10
seebsThere doesn't happen to be a really cheap and easy way to get a FILE* that just points to a buffer, does there?17:10
ntrs_inz, what is update-rc.d?17:10
ntrs_inz and where is it?17:11
inzntrs, it's an utility (in debian) for updating the initscripts17:11
inzntrs, it should be /usr/sbin/update-rc.d17:11
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pahartikntrs_: "update-rc.d(8) - install and remove System-V style init script links"17:12
ntrs_inz, thanks17:12
s-ndh-cit symlinks the initscripts to the runlevel dirs17:12
seebsDoh!  fmemopen17:13
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Ayozehi all :)17:20
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nnodseebs: you need to look into jpeg_buff_dest et al17:22
seebsHmm.  My docs just talk about writing a destination manager.17:23
seebsfmemopen's WAY easier.  :)17:23
nnodseebs: that's it, it's not too hard17:23
seebsAlso, curl wanted a FILE* too.17:23
seebsSo now I have them both using an internal file, and all I have to do is change one line of code to use fmemopen.  :)17:24
nnodin that case, maybe fmemopen is better17:25
nnoddang, fmemopen looks much easer! i wish i'd known about it before17:26
seebsIt is awesome.17:27
seebsBSD has funopen, which is even more generic.17:27
Takand more fun17:31
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dballesterhi to all17:31
Jaffalo dballester17:31
seebscurl is not smart enough to trust me when I tell it the size of my file.17:36
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ntrs_where are the files for the initial two nokia images when starting up the device?17:36
seebsSo it writes the whole buffer.17:36
Takwow @ david weinehall list flame17:36
JaffaSomething's fubar with Garage's "most active this week portlet", it seems being created is enough to push you *way* ahead of most other forms of activity.17:37
JaffaTak: indeed.17:37
c0ffeewhat flame?17:38
Jaffa"You're all whinging, heaven forbid Nokia do something for you for once, all you do is take. Wah wah wah".17:39
* Jaffa may, of course, be paraphrasing ;-)17:39
c0ffeehoffmann has a point as well17:39
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c0ffeemaybe even a few hundret ppl are sitting there wanting to work with the n800 and can't17:40
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c0ffeeit would be enough to say 'if you buy it online, we refund you the $300 in case'17:40
JaffaThat'd require Nokia saying *something*, which according to David Weinehall is just expecting Too Much[TM].17:41
c0ffeethere are bits and pieces!17:42
suihkulokkiyou could allways just sell the extra device and recover the $300 back..17:42
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glassunlikely that you wouldn't few bucks in the process17:42
glassjust saying either way would help probably17:43
glassif people are just sitting and waiting17:43
c0ffeeand according to german law, you had to give 2years warranty17:43
Jaffac0ffee: true, there are bits and pieces. I don't mind waiting to find out, but an *indefinite* wait is what's annoying people, IMHO.17:44
c0ffeedavid said one or two weeks17:44
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Jaffac0ffee: his points get lost in the combative way he makes his point. Is it so unreasonable for someone to ask on maemo-dev when the discount codes would be finalised *so that they can spend money with Nokia*?17:47
ntrs_where are the files for the initial two nokia images when starting up the device?17:47
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c0ffeeJaffa, fair enough17:47
c0ffeentrs_, you mean the splashscreen?17:49
Jaffac0ffee: of course he's right, patience is a virtue and it's only been just over a week - but there's no mention of the deadline, users are getting the devices and asking questions of devs who can't answer them as they've held off buying one Just In Case.17:51
lle2I think it's been a bit clumsy not to give a deadline17:52
Takhell, I just can't afford to pay $400 for one right now17:52
s-ndh-cwhy does this stupid filebrowser not show the whole filesystem?17:53
lle2because it can?17:54
s-ndh-ci guess i could just create a link to / from the dir that the filemanager displays17:54
keesjbecause end user would not understand it perhaps?17:54
ntrs_c0ffee, yes, the splashscreens17:54
s-ndh-ci hope so atleast17:54
s-ndh-ckeesj: they shouldnt be using linux then17:54
keesjI think it's a gconf option end there used to even be a .deb package to "fix" it17:54
c0ffeentrs_, see the bugzilla url i pasted17:54
keesjbut why call it stupid17:54
ntrs_s-ndh-c, yes a symlink will work just fine17:55
c0ffees-ndh-c, use the web browser file://localhost/17:55
s-ndh-cwill try17:55
c0ffeei'd rather see preliminary headset support for 770 :)17:56
c0ffeethen i can easily wait another month17:56
s-ndh-cthe n800 looks cool17:56
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keesjc0ffee, bluetooth or any?17:58
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gpdhas anyone tried lighttpd on tablet before?18:27
gpdi just built it and tested with a very basic configuration and it seems to work18:28
gpdif i can get php with fast-cgi and lighttpd running - then :D18:28
JaffaLooks like a good contender for mud-builder.garage.maemo.org18:28
gpdJaffa: i had to build from source -- the debian package gave me builddep issues18:29
gpdand as supplied by debian it would be too heavy i thinks -- ie. mysql18:29
keesjgpd, that is no problem18:29
Jaffagpd: Yeah, I've found building from source tarballs works best (e.g.*checkout*/trunk/packages/imagemagick.xml?root=mud-builder&rev=40 is the ImageMagick package from upstream.18:30
gpdyup - i used vanilla lighttpd-1.4.13.tgz and all good18:30
dottedmagbtw, is there effort to create single repository of maemo packages? analogous to, e.g., ubuntu universe?18:30
Jaffagpd: Only "url" should be necessary for lighttpd from the look of it.18:31
Jaffadottedmag: yes -
gpdlighttpd is very well regarded and would be a boon on the 77/800 imho18:31
Jaffagpd: though you might want to specify other stuff.18:31
gpddid you see that i got php running yesterday?18:31
dottedmagJaffa: well, then how it is related to mud-builder?18:32
Disconnectgpd: hey cool18:32
Jaffagpd: Briefly, but I was trying to spend time with the littl 'un.18:32
gpdit was working with thttpd and basic php and sqlite tests performed well18:32
Jaffadottedmag: mud-builder's designed for the kind of thing gpd's doing: take upstream sources (either Debian or tarballs atm), compile them for Maemo, apply any specific patches and build Maemo compliant debs (e.g. "user/" prefixes on Section, XB-Maemo-Icon etc.) and then handle the uploading of the package to extras.18:33
dottedmagJaffa: so, they are like buildd and unstable. ok.18:34
dottedmagJaffa: Debian ones, I meant.18:34
keesjdottedmag, it also makes it possible for others to reproduce a build or be responsible of a certain target18:34
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Jaffai.e. gpd could provide a lighttpd.xml (and possibly .patch) and I/the MUD team would worry about uploading them.18:40
Jaffadottedmag: exactly. But lighter weight and designed for a system where the source debs might not be compatible with the system in which you're running.18:40
dottedmagwhat about encouraging different developers to use extras? Everyone who makes Debian packages likes to put them in Unstable, while I don't see too much in extras.18:42
dottedmagAs little as several lines of text on the pages related to package-building and available software would help greatly.18:43
Jaffadottedmag: I agree. Grab Ferenc next time he's about.18:43
Jaffa(or send a mail to maemo-dev, I suppose ;-))18:44
* Jaffa 's idea behind mud is that people spend too long packaging (boring) and too long recompiling upstream stuff for simple ports like lighttpd, rsync etc., when our time as developers would be much better spent on either new Maemo stuff using those tools or Maemo-customisations to those packages.18:45
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c0ffeei should write an exploit for your mud :)18:46
c0ffeeand keep it secret until it's deployed on some box18:46
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JaffaPatches are welcome. They *will* be reviewed ;-)18:48
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Takvoid c0ffee_backd00r(){ //They'll never notice me }18:50
mgedminnah, not subtle enough18:52
JaffaThe C might break the Perl interpreter a bit, but that otherwise looks fine... applied to svn18:52
mgedminvoid not_a_backdor_at_all() {...}18:52
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osfameronhow does perl work on N800?18:53
JaffaVery well thank you. (Although mud runs in Scratchbox)18:53
* osfameron googles scratchbox18:53
Jaffaapt/dpkg rely on Perl, after all (unless Maemo 3's using busybox's non-Perl reimplementation)18:53
Jaffaosfameron: the container for the Maemo environment on a desktop PC (think SDK)18:54
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osfameronah, cool18:54
AndyCapStupid question perhaps, but is it worth the extra money to use High-speed SD cards in the N800, or should one just buy cheap slow ones since the speed will be the same anyway?.18:55
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mgedminapt/dpkg rely on Perl???18:57
mgedminno they don't18:57
mgedminyou must have mixed them up with debconf18:58
Jaffamgedmin: indeed, sorry.18:59
* Jaffa has a headache and is trying to concentrate on at least one too many things18:59
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keesjone must love ruby  (my paste-it client)
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osfameronor concise scripting languaes in general19:10
sp3000and mangled comments19:11
ntrs_Ok, I changed the png image files but the initial nokia logo splash screen still shows up. Which file needs to be replaced to change that nokia logo splash screen?19:12
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trenkantrs_: it is impossible19:24
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ntrs_I see, ok.19:25
Takembedded in the firmware?19:25
trenkain bootloader19:25
c0ffeepatching nolo shouldn't be impossible :)19:26
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trenkac0ffee: well, untill it has secure chip of course19:26
c0ffeecouldn't i just patch nolo in a fiasco image and flash it?19:27
lle2c0ffee: yes, and then not boot19:27
trenkac0ffee: yes, you can19:28
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c0ffeebut nolo contains a checksum then19:28
c0ffeethat's bad :(19:28
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trenkayou can patch it too19:28
c0ffeeand it still wouldn't boot?19:28
lle2the thing is signed, dunno if you could persuade nokia to sign it for your :)19:29
c0ffeea signed boot loader on an opensource platform with an unencrypted firmware image?19:30
c0ffeewhat's that supposed to help19:30
lle2the hw checks it19:30
dottedmagdamn trusted computing :-/19:30
c0ffeemy play-omap here doesn't do that19:31
lle2different chip19:31
c0ffeei wonder whether it's signed19:31
c0ffeeor it's a lets-hope-nobody-realy-tries-signature19:32
seebsI am trying to manually build a package, rather than setting up the entire dpkg infrastructure for it.  However, I cannot seem to create a valid control file.19:32
seebsOh, I see.  I was copying a source control file, not a modified output from dpkg.19:33
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lle2c0ffee: it's a good question if it makes any sense at all, but the hw is like that, it needs to check it, not our choice really19:35
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c0ffeethe flasher could auto-sign the bootloader19:38
c0ffeethat would be middle course19:38
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dottedmaglle2: is checksum hardcoded in hw?19:39
aCiDBaSeNew Python for Maemo:
kendernow, I'm N800 owner too :)19:39
lle2dottedmag: no19:39
lle2but I think I'll simply shut up before some men in black show up19:40
*** aCiDBaSe changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at Search: | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: (Win users: | 2007ish release plans for the 770: | Ne"19:41
*** aCiDBaSe changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at Search: | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: (Win users: | 2007ish release plans for the 770:"19:41
* dottedmag withdraws the 'trusted computing' label :)19:41
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c0ffeei wonder why blogs are always only using 6.5% of the available screen width19:43
mgedminyour monitor is too big?19:43
lle2c0ffee: there's normally so little content it would look stupid otherwise19:44
c0ffeefair enough :)19:44
wheggeDoes anyone know how to tell what terminal emulation that openssh is using on the 770?19:44
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dottedmagwhegge: well. ssh client uses terminal it started in.19:45
seebsecho $TERM?19:45
lle2trenka: can't priv msg, not registered19:46
wheggedottedmag: using the x terminal for the 770,  echo $TERM returns xterm19:46
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dottedmagwhegge: and? ssh itself do not care about terminals.19:48
wheggewhat I need to do is verify or set that it is using a VT100 terminal emultaion19:48
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wheggeI am having problems ssh'n in to my routers.  They use ncurses for the menu system.  When I use the 770 I cannot navigate the menus.19:49
c0ffeethe flames on m-d continue19:49
dottedmagwhegge: check from xterm from *nix box. If it works, then it's some bug in osso-xterm.19:50
mgedminafaik osso-xterm uses the same libvte that gnome-terminal uses19:50
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wheggemust be a bug in osso-term then. It works from my fedora core box at work.19:51
c0ffeeand we all know that gnome-terminal is a pain19:52
wheggewell, I will check with osso-term support.  Thanks for your help.  Once I get this working I will let you know how.  Thanks again.19:53
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wheggeGot it.  Used the osso-term advanced version.  Menu navigation works fine now.20:03
nwkfrom mh?20:04
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nwkhow it works with <delete>?20:06
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wheggewhat do u mean, <delete>?20:07
nwkremove last character20:08
wheggehow are u attempting to do this?  In vim?  Command line?  What key are you pressing?20:09
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nwkxterm. upper right angle with arrow to the left20:10
wheggeIf I am understanding.  The backspace key is working fine.20:11
nwkI have clasic xterm and stupid spaces20:12
wheggeaahhh, yes I remember seeing that too.  No, that does not happen with this xterm20:13
nwkhave you desinstalled old one?20:14
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wheggeyes.  Did that first then put osso-xterm advanced in from the repository.20:14
wheggedid not have to remove ssh or anything else.20:15
nwkany dependencies?20:15
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nwkhuh! what repository? maemo-hackers?20:17
nwkI have scirocco20:18
wheggeso do I20:18
wheggenope.  Just use the Application Tool20:19
nwkdon't have it.20:19
nwkshould to add rep.20:19
jtracool, that load-applet-run can run and save entry for 'matchbox-remote -next' which can switch application without icon20:19
nwkjust what?20:20
wheggenwk:menu->tools->application manager you do not have that?20:20
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nwkyes,have it, but no term adv20:21
wheggenwk:select title from top of application manageer window.  Then Tools->Application Catalogue20:22
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nwkjust tableteer and rep.maemo20:24
wheggenwk: Then 'New'.  For 'Web Address' put', leave 'Distribution' alone, 'Component' put main, then click 'ok', then 'close'20:24
wheggenwk: It will ask you if you wish to update catalogue say yes.20:25
tkowhy not upload to extras repo and save the users the trouble of configuring yet-another-new-repository ?20:26
wheggeDo not know.  Just following the instructions in then wiki.20:26
wheggethen = the20:26
nwkthx wegge. goig' to do that. bbl ;-)20:27
wheggeno alone = no touch what is there it is good.20:29
nwkok. bye.20:30
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dottedmagAnyone experiencing lags on It answers to HTTP request after 10 seconds (file serves approx. 1mb/sec, so this is not my slow connection)20:31
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wheggenot as of 20 mintues ago.  Just added VNC.20:41
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kenderI have installed osso-xterm and no space bottom appears in the virtual keyboard, how can I solve this?20:56
kenderI have unselected the "Reverse Colors" and now It works20:58
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trenkais it possible to buy in Finland adapter for UK plug -> finnish socket21:02
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||cwwhy wouldn't it be21:03
||cwint eh us you can buy adaptors from anything to anything, people travel and vendors know it21:04
danielstrenka: yes, very easy at the airport, somewhat easy at the train station.  else you lose and have to get one from stockmann which is €35.21:05
parttrenka: it is, I have several, although they've been bought from airports around europe21:05
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trenkadaniels: Ah, cool! I checked stores near work today and could found only fin->UK. Thanks for point21:08
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|tbb|whi all22:04
|tbb|where can i met the makers of maemo-hackers22:05
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inz|tbb|, here22:08
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|tbb|inz got a nickname?22:11
inz|tbb|, yes, inz22:12
inzWhat of maemo-hackers it is that you want to ask?22:12
|tbb|k, i need to get macchanger running on my brand new n80022:12
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|tbb|that one which run on n770 doesnt work on the n800 :(22:14
inz|tbb|, the 770 version is not from maemo-hackers repository...22:15
inz|tbb|, but now there is one in bora repository, no guarantees that it will work22:17
inz|tbb|, and it's not application manager installable, use apt-get from command line22:17
|tbb|i will look at it22:17
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|tbb|first to get root access :)22:18
gpd <-- multitouch on crack22:18
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|tbb|seems to be down at the moment any other ressource 4 me?22:40
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||cw|tbb|: for IT2006, there's a package you can install that will do it for you22:42
||cwthough that's probably on too22:42
pikanapsui cant connect to www.maemo.org22:42
pikanapsushoud the maemo 2.1 installer work fine with debian etch?22:45
X-Fadepikanapsu: Yeah looks pretty dead..22:45
pikanapsuand too22:46
|tbb|inz u there?22:46
|tbb|where to get the package for bora?22:46
tzzGoogle cache:
|tbb|is it that? is back for me btw22:49
Disconnect||cw: becomeroot works on 2007 also fyi22:50
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pikanapsutzz, yep.22:51
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tzz|tbb|: becomeroot:
|tbb|got it thx22:57
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|tbb|waiting for inz answer22:57
|tbb|the n8 is very fast22:58
|tbb|in any way but video22:58
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kenderMy new N800, when I started it, Nokia logo appears, but then the screen switch off and Nokia logo appears again23:03
kenderdoesn't start23:03
kenderwhat's happening?23:03
kenderis bricked?23:03
kenderwhat can I do?23:03
kenderflashing it maybe?23:03
kenderI have tried with battery only23:03
trenkakender: enable serial-console23:03
kenderwith AC23:03
kendertrenka, how?23:04
trenkakender: flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console23:06
keesjkender, what a terrific start of your N800 experience23:07
kenderkeesj, yes :SSS23:07
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kenderkender@Cosmos:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console23:08
kenderflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)23:08
kenderSuitable USB device not found, waiting23:08
kenderUSB device found found at bus 005, device address 01423:08
kenderError claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted23:08
Piobe root23:08
kenderroot@Cosmos:/home/kender/Desktop# ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console23:09
kenderflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)23:09
kenderSuitable USB device not found, waiting23:09
kenderUSB device found found at bus 005, device address 02123:09
kenderFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130123:09
kenderNOLO version 1.1.323:09
kenderVersion of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_MR023:09
kenderSet R&D flags: 001023:09
trenkacool, remove usb cable23:09
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kenderoh, I see23:10
kendersome letters23:10
trenkakender: do not flood please23:10
kenderwhat do you want to know?23:11
kenderthere appears info, about kernel23:12
kenderinitfs version23:12
kenderComponent versions23:12
trenkaIt should boot23:12
kenderI have it with AC23:12
kendermaybe that?23:12
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trenkait shows charging ?23:13
kenderI plug it23:13
kenderthe battery icon appears23:13
kenderbut then, the screen halts23:14
kenderand Nokia logo appears again23:14
myrenwhat the holy fuck23:14
myrenuse longer sentances kender.23:15
kendermyren, sorry, my english is bad but I will try23:15
kenderwhat else do you want to know?23:15
myreni'm just complaining because in the past 12 minutes, you've typed 60 lines or so23:16
ferulodamm, someone ported gconf-editor to maemo :)23:16
kendermyren, sorry :S23:16
myrenkender: if its any condolence, i'm sorry your N800 is being problematic23:16
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kendermyren, what is the next step? I ordered it through internet, is the first time, I'm from Spain, what is done in this cases?23:18
kendertrenka, ?23:18
kenderany idea?23:18
trenkaI would like to get such problematic device23:18
kendertrenka, you would like?23:18
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keesjI would walk to a nokia shop and see if they know what device that is23:19
trenkakender: enabling/disabling  serial-console helped for some such cases. May be you have another case, I have not seen such device yet23:20
kendertrenka, but, I can't reflash it? what's happening? explain me please23:20
trenkakender: I do not know what's happening, I have not seen such device. Can try flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:21
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suihkulokkimaybe it's too empty battery?23:22
suihkulokkisome people had similar problems here earlier, dunno if they got it solved or not23:22
kendersuihkulokki, I have it with ac23:22
trenkakender: is it charging ?23:23
kenderone second23:23
kendernothing happens23:23
suihkulokkikender: you still might have to wait some time before the battery has enough power to boot23:23
pikanapsucan i develop software with maemo2.1 and simply install it on every N770 or should the N770 be updated somehow?23:23
kenderroot@Cosmos:/home/kender/Desktop# ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:23
kenderflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)23:23
kenderUSB device found found at bus 005, device address 02323:23
kendersuihkulokki, yes, have been charging it all the day23:23
trenkakender: please, find or like that23:23
kendertrenka, sorry again23:24
|tbb|inz: macchanger works on the n800 thx23:25
keesjpikanapsu, I think it depends , the changes between the releases is documented on the site.23:25
kendertrenka, well23:25
|tbb|someone have seen the magnets from the soon available case for the n8?23:25
keesjbut between 2005 ant 2006 I don't think it's binary compatible ( check it on the website don't believe me)23:26
kendernow, in the screen only appears the nokia logo, and those booting characters, but nothing else; the screen doesn't restart23:26
kenderbetter? worse?23:26
pikanapsuis there different 2006 releases?23:26
trenkakender: try to wait23:26
keesjI THINK 2.0 and 2.1 are both "2006"23:27
pahartikpikanapsu: Maemo 2.0 and Maemo 2.123:27
kenderIf I plugged the charger, nothing happens, no icon appers23:27
trenkapikanapsu: they should be compartible23:28
trenkacompatible, even23:28
pikanapsuis there simple way to know witch 2006 ii do have?23:28
trenkapikanapsu: "about" on device ?23:28
trenkakender: so, you do not have any cable plugged in device, press power button, it shows logo23:29
kenderyes trenka23:29
trenkakender: nothing happens for 5 minutes ?23:29
kendertrenka, now I have tested23:29
kenderquitting the battery23:29
kenderputting on again23:29
kenderand plug in the charger, the logo appears, then the icon of the battery and the screen went white23:30
Milhousegot any cards in the slots? try removing them and reboot?23:30
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kenderMilhouse, I have tried, but I'll try again23:31
trenkakender: do not plug charger please23:31
kenderMilhouse, everything without memories23:32
trenkabut if you could not charge the battery before, it's empty now :(23:32
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kendertrenka, ?23:32
kenderthe battery is not empty, the device powers when I press the button23:33
trenkakender: and then ?23:33
kenderNokia logo appears, and nothing else happens23:33
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kenderwith ac, things seems to change23:34
maddlerhi all23:34
kendertrenka, next step?23:34
trenkakender: I can propose you to visit my sauna this weekend :)23:34
kendertrenka, are you from here?23:35
trenkaNow? Espoo, Finland23:35
kenderI mean, Spain23:35
kendertrenka, so, I find that difficult23:36
trenkathe best for you now is flasher-3.0 --disable-rd-mode and ask nokia center I afraid23:36
trenkayou can reflash it of course, but I do not know if it helps23:37
kenderI haven't put rd-mode enabled23:37
trenkayou have :)23:37
kendertrenka, the device is new, I openned it today23:37
trenkaI'm so sorry23:38
kendertrenka, If I try flashing, I'll loss something?23:38
trenkaI do not know, check the papers23:39
kendernobody knows?23:39
Veggenkender: no, reflashing is supported.23:40
VeggenI'm quite sure :)23:40
kenderhow can I flash it?23:42
trenkaflasher-3.0 -f -F <fiasco>23:44
Veggenyou need to download the image, of course.23:44
trenkakender: what nolo version it reports?23:45
trenkaNOLO version 1.1.323:46
pikanapsuwhat is rootstrap?23:46
pikanapsuis toolchain rootstrap?23:46
trenkapikanapsu: no, it contains some kind of a root file system23:47
|tbb|where do i get an overview of running applications on n800?23:47
Veggendo people normally add the mistral repositories to the N800 device? I see a lot of applications have dependencies from there....23:47
Veggenor is it risky?23:47
pikanapsufrom maemo 2.1 install documentation "Double-check the packages you are extracting. Rootstraps must not be extracted to the / directory, only the Scratchbox packages."23:47
trenkasuihkulokki: seems I have an idea, but I do not have HW to test it23:47
pikanapsuwhat is rootstrap package?23:48
|tbb|anyone else got the problem that google connects and disconnects to the gtalk thing?23:48
trenkapikanapsu: rootstraps should be extracted from inside of scratchbox23:48
pikanapsuname one rootsrap23:49
trenkapikanapsu: scratchbox itself should be extracted to your machine's /23:49
pikanapsuyeah.. that i have done.. but i cannot login.. :(23:49
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pikanapsuit tells im already log in 9 times23:49
trenkapikanapsu: Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.1_armel-rootstrap.tgz23:49
pikanapsuho do i logout from those 9 things..23:51
trenkascratchbox had problems with linux >= 2.6.18 afaik23:51
kendertrenka, Bootloader error log follows:23:51
kender  Error reading spare of block 139, page 023:51
kender  Error reading spare of block 139, page 023:51
kender  EP0 in RX state, but no incoming packet23:51
kender  Premature end of control transfer23:51
kenderdoes that tell you something?23:52
trenkakender: yes, it told me something23:52
trenkakender: I guess where the problem is, but I cannot help you right now23:53
kendertrenka, have it solution? what can I do?23:53
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kendermy god23:54
kendertrenka, !!!23:54
kenderI'm very happy23:55
kendervery very happy23:55
kenderthe device have booted !!23:55
trenkakender: congratulations23:55
kendertrenka, thank you! thank you very much!23:55
trenkado not flood please23:55
kendertrenka, ok, only a question, what were you thinking about? do you think that the device may be broken or only a bad reboot that corrupted the boot partition?23:57
trenkakender: I afraid, I cannot share this information23:58
pikanapsumaybe somebody should update the 2.1 manual and add warning for 2.6.18 kernel ?23:58

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