| chx | gpd: I am holding my breath. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Veggen | gpd: any semi-official list of repositories? | 00:00 |
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| gpd | Veggen: the main repository list has those released for 2007 | 00:01 |
| Veggen | hmm. the newest OS release is 2006.51-6? | 00:02 |
| Molagi | hmm how do i convert .avi files to suitable for n800? | 00:03 |
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| gpd | chx: do you have a handle on flags to use in this php5 compile? | 00:06 |
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| gpd | chx: i could probably spend a week learning just htat part alone! | 00:07 |
| chx | gpd: uh uh uh | 00:07 |
| chx | gpd: ./configure --help and disable everythng | 00:07 |
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| gpd | chx: if i get stuck - you could always install a scratchbox and start compiling stuff -- you dn't actually need an N800 until the last step ;) | 00:09 |
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| keesj | why not write a remote ajax based drupal hard core code editor | 00:11 |
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| ||cw | Molagi: same as the 770, but the n800 should be able to deal with a bit higher resolution | 00:11 |
| keesj | the power of the nokia is it's connectivity | 00:11 |
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| gpd | keesj: this is more for offline work -- but then who is 'offline' these days ;) | 00:12 |
| gpd | ... actually me all day yesterday thanks to Time Warner :# | 00:12 |
| Molagi | ok, ive never had 770 so what softwares i need for converting? :) | 00:13 |
| keesj | slightly off topic but I almost get more maemo mail than spam | 00:13 |
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| chx | gpd: scratchbox? | 00:15 |
| gpd | http://scratchbox.org/ <- development platform for maemo -- cross compilation etc | 00:16 |
| lle2 | gpd: um, I just built php-5.2.0 | 00:16 |
| chx | being online all day is easy from home with two ISPs | 00:16 |
| chx | lle2: OH! | 00:16 |
| lle2 | gpd: using sb2 | 00:16 |
| gpd | lle2: you sir -- are a genius! | 00:16 |
| chx | lle2: Speed on N800? | 00:16 |
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| lle2 | no idea | 00:17 |
| * chx is all ears | 00:17 | |
| chx | lle2: .deb ? | 00:17 |
| lle2 | I can't test it, too lazy | 00:17 |
| chx | lle2: gpd is willing to test it for me :) | 00:17 |
| lle2 | no .deb | 00:17 |
| chx | :( | 00:17 |
| gpd | lle2: what configure flags? | 00:17 |
| lle2 | but anyway, it is definitely possible to build it | 00:17 |
| lle2 | --disable-all | 00:17 |
| chx | :) | 00:17 |
| lle2 | :} | 00:17 |
| lle2 | I can't produce .debs at all on my gentoo box using sb2 | 00:18 |
| lle2 | which is probably not terribly surprising | 00:18 |
| lle2 | gpd: you should definitely be able to build it with sb1 | 00:19 |
| gpd | compiling now... fingers crossed | 00:19 |
| gpd | Build complete. | 00:19 |
| gpd | ok - now what -- scp -r php-5.2 mytablet --> make install ? | 00:20 |
| lle2 | hmm | 00:20 |
| lle2 | I'd build it with ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/php5 | 00:20 |
| lle2 | make install inside sb1 | 00:20 |
| lle2 | then make a tarball of that dir and extract it as root on the target | 00:20 |
| lle2 | or put it on a sd card | 00:21 |
| lle2 | or something | 00:21 |
| * lle2 has never written a single maemo application | 00:21 | |
| Molagi | what video bitrate is good for n800? | 00:22 |
| Molagi | well i put 128 soon will know how it looks | 00:24 |
| lle2 | daniels knows, but is probably too busy at LCA | 00:24 |
| gpd | anyone else going to SCALE? | 00:24 |
| Pio | i was considering it.. i went in 05 | 00:24 |
| Pio | probably not though | 00:24 |
| gpd | I booked up this am | 00:25 |
| Pio | cool | 00:25 |
| Pio | you live in southern california? | 00:25 |
| gpd | ok - php5.tgz on tablet -- :) | 00:25 |
| gpd | LA | 00:25 |
| Pio | i live up in frazier park, north of santa clarita | 00:25 |
| Pio | mountains | 00:25 |
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| gpd | nice nice -- i live in Santa Monica right now -- Ocean :) | 00:26 |
| Pio | cool | 00:27 |
| Pio | probably quite a bit warmer down there than here heh | 00:27 |
| gpd | normally -- not right at this moment | 00:27 |
| Pio | its 28 here right now :) | 00:27 |
| gpd | ok - you win | 00:27 |
| Molagi | this converting is really slow | 00:28 |
| Pio | actually, plumber just got here to replace some leaking pipes from freezing.. | 00:28 |
| gpd | /usr/local/php5/bin $ ./php -v | 00:30 |
| gpd | PHP 5.2.0 (cgi) (built: Jan 15 2007 14:21:41) | 00:30 |
| gpd | /usr/local/php5/bin $ uname -a | 00:30 |
| gpd | Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Tue Dec 19 18:41:02 EET 2006 armv6l unknown | 00:30 |
| gpd | ok -- how to test? | 00:30 |
| lle2 | gpd: didn't you have some http server there? it must support cgi, no? | 00:31 |
| gpd | thhtpd -- running -- never used it - | 00:31 |
| chx | http://phplens.com/benchmark_suite/ | 00:31 |
| ||cw | php -v | 00:33 |
| ||cw | oh | 00:33 |
| ||cw | php -r 'some php code' | 00:33 |
| gpd | the phpinfo() is giving me html -- copying now | 00:33 |
| ||cw | i think you can do php -i as well | 00:34 |
| ||cw | for a non-html phpinfo | 00:34 |
| * lle2 figures he doesn't know php at all after failing to write a hello world | 00:34 | |
| ||cw | heh | 00:34 |
| chx | gpd: I could pastebin you some very simple script which you could run | 00:35 |
| mgedmin | um, wouldn't <html><head><title>Hello</title></head><body>Hello, world</body></html> be a valid PHP script? | 00:35 |
| ||cw | not exactly | 00:36 |
| ||cw | well, you could put it in a .php file and it's valid, but it's not script until you <?php | 00:36 |
| gpd | http://www.grahamdavies.net/nokia_php_test.html | 00:37 |
| lle2 | I guess that means it works | 00:37 |
| gpd | seems to! :D | 00:37 |
| gpd | not sure if drupal will work with --disable-all -- but hey -- php is a start! | 00:38 |
| chx | gpd: http://pastebin.ca/317874 | 00:38 |
| chx | Drupal will not work with --disable-all at least PCRE is needed but it's a start. We shall see what my simple benchmark script will reveal. | 00:39 |
| gpd | http://www.grahamdavies.net/chx_test.html | 00:40 |
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| gpd | are those numbers good? | 00:40 |
| chx | only ten times slower than my desktop | 00:40 |
| lle2 | that's not bad at all | 00:40 |
| gpd | let me run on my virtual server... | 00:40 |
| * Jaffa should go round all the people porting/ported command line stuff since that should be trivial to add to mud's autobuilder, so people can concentrate on porting/patching/improving rather than packaging/releasing. | 00:41 | |
| gpd | yup - about 10x slower -- but that is impressive | 00:41 |
| chx | that's not unbearable | 00:42 |
| chx | very, very promising | 00:42 |
| chx | but this is not through a http server, I believe? | 00:42 |
| chx | just command line | 00:43 |
| gpd | no - cmd line | 00:43 |
| chx | but can't be a big difference, it'd be CGI anyways | 00:43 |
| * chx adds Nokia N800 to the grocery list | 00:44 | |
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| gpd | chx: we still have to worry about the total RAM - when sqlite is added -- but the thttpd was runing during that test -- very small | 00:45 |
| chx | is there a way to check how much memory is eaten by php? | 00:45 |
| gpd | just dropping the .php script into /var/www/users gave raw php code -- not surprising -- will have to configure | 00:45 |
| chx | oh wait | 00:46 |
| chx | we do not need a http daemon | 00:46 |
| gpd | ? | 00:47 |
| chx | there are at least two solutions to run Drupal from a shell | 00:47 |
| c0ffee | is ville tervo here sometimes? | 00:47 |
| chx | one runs the #drupal run bot actually | 00:47 |
| gpd | you mean like file://localhost/drupal/ | 00:47 |
| chx | no, I mean php foo.php.... | 00:47 |
| gpd | ah - just for testing? then > foo.html | 00:48 |
| chx | yes | 00:48 |
| Veggen | mm, first crash. | 00:48 |
| chx | more often than not , I do not much anyways just to see whether I get an error or a page | 00:48 |
| chx | that even wc can tell :) | 00:49 |
| gpd | ok - well inthat case more important to get php running with required bits | 00:49 |
| gpd | you said pcre? | 00:49 |
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| chx | yes | 00:53 |
| chx | and I do not think anything else is badly needed | 00:53 |
| chx | xml for some modules but ... we can live without them :) | 00:53 |
| Molagi | is mencoder better than nokia 770 video converter? | 00:53 |
| gpd | --with-pcre-dir FILTER: pcre install prefix ? | 00:54 |
| ||cw | Molagi: I think the nokia 770 video converter is a frontend to mencoder | 00:54 |
| Molagi | ok | 00:55 |
| chx | gpd: normally PHP source has a PCRE bundled | 00:55 |
| ||cw | gpd: php has built in pcre support, becarefull with configure that you don't enable an external one, it won't work quite as well | 00:55 |
| ||cw | or quite the same anyway | 00:55 |
| gpd | but how do i enable it when i have --disable-all ? | 00:55 |
| chx | gpd: --with-pcre-regex | 00:56 |
| gpd | ok -- and what about the xml --with-??? | 00:57 |
| chx | gpd: oh. and --with-regex | 00:57 |
| chx | gpd: alas, Drupal 5 has a few ereg left. Or so I think. I need to check. Very soon --with-regex won't be needed | 00:57 |
| chx | gpd: I guess either --enable-xml or --with-xml | 00:58 |
| chx | gpd: give it both :) | 00:58 |
| gpd | ok - making | 00:58 |
| chx | this is the reaction over at #drupal to my announcement of what we have so far [23:51] <Bdragon> OOOoooo | 00:59 |
| chx | some people apparently like it :D | 00:59 |
| gpd | good good | 00:59 |
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| tnbt | is there any DAAP app available for OS2006? | 01:00 |
| tnbt | only found rhythmbox for 2005 so far | 01:00 |
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| gpd | I am getting a warning about not compiling redirection checking | 01:03 |
| chx | bah! we do not care for security here. | 01:04 |
| gpd | --enable-force-cgi-redirect ? | 01:04 |
| chx | or do you plan to do shared hosting with that PHP you just compiled :D ? | 01:04 |
| gpd | no -- but if no overhead then very simple... | 01:04 |
| chx | i guess it's very little overhead | 01:05 |
| gpd | /scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/libxml2.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format | 01:06 |
| chx | gpd: do not bother. http://www.phpbuilder.com/manual/en/security.cgi-bin.force-redirect.php | 01:06 |
| chx | gpd: that force cgi redirect is Apache specfic | 01:06 |
| chx | gpd: forget XML then. it's not important. | 01:07 |
| lle2 | gpd: I would think there's expat for the target? | 01:07 |
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| gpd | lle2: when I do the make install -- i shouldn't be using fakeroot -- correct? (brain fried atm) | 01:07 |
| lle2 | gpd: doesn't matter, probably | 01:08 |
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| lle2 | gpd: if you want to make it politically correctly you should run make install and create the tarball within the same fakeroot session | 01:10 |
| lle2 | gpd: or create a fakeroot db file and reuse that if you'd do it in separate fakeroot invocations | 01:11 |
| lle2 | I don't understand how you ended up linking against _that_ libxml2.so | 01:12 |
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| lle2 | that's pretty broken behaviour from sbox or from the devkit or both | 01:12 |
| c0ffee | dumm-di-dumm | 01:12 |
| c0ffee | i have the firmware for the bt chipset dumped | 01:12 |
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| gpd | so - should it be fakeroot ./configure --foo then fakeroot make then fakeroot make install ? | 01:13 |
| c0ffee | it's just a clumsy version of the bluetooth-scripts commonly used by ti | 01:13 |
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| lle2 | gpd: no, it should be fakeroot <enter> | 01:13 |
| lle2 | gpd: then inside that shell do the whole thing | 01:13 |
| lle2 | gpd: that's the easy way | 01:14 |
| lle2 | gpd: the hard and more interesting way is to: | 01:15 |
| gpd | lle2: ok -- anything else you would put in the configure to make it more generic? | 01:15 |
| lle2 | gpd: fakeroot -s fakeroot.db ./configure --prefix... | 01:15 |
| lle2 | etc | 01:15 |
| lle2 | and use fakeroot -i to re-read that for the following invocations | 01:15 |
| lle2 | but I'd just forget about all of this | 01:16 |
| gpd | done ;) | 01:16 |
| lle2 | gpd: no idea about the configure options | 01:16 |
| lle2 | that was the first time I've built php | 01:17 |
| gpd | ya - me too | 01:17 |
| lle2 | no, wait. I did it, maybe four years ago? but all the same. I don't really know it. | 01:17 |
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| chx | gpd: so it compiled with the two regex libs? | 01:19 |
| gpd | still going... | 01:19 |
| c0ffee | somebody interested in this bluetooth stuff? | 01:20 |
| gpd | shit - same error -- | 01:20 |
| gpd | sh-2.05b# ./configure --disable-all --with-pcre-regex --with-regex --enable-xml --with-xml --enable-libxml --prefix=/usr/local/php5 | 01:20 |
| gpd | sh-2.05b# make clean | 01:20 |
| lle2 | gpd: remove the xml things | 01:20 |
| gpd | /scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/libxml2.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format | 01:21 |
| lle2 | gpd: for some reason it's using that libxml2.so, which I bet is x86 library | 01:21 |
| gpd | i could force it to use a specific dir maybe? | 01:22 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: I'm on the verge of maybe leaning towards being possibly interested :) | 01:22 |
| lle2 | gpd: look at the expat flags | 01:22 |
| lle2 | gpd: and maybe force it to use those, if possible | 01:22 |
| c0ffee | that's a first step into the right direction! :) | 01:22 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: ;) | 01:22 |
| c0ffee | are you already back at nokia, lle2 ? | 01:22 |
| lle2 | yup | 01:22 |
| c0ffee | could you do me a favour and go to the guy doing the bt stuff for 770 | 01:23 |
| daniels | 'the guy' | 01:23 |
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| c0ffee | and ask him to just release a new firmware for the time being that enables SCO via HCI routing? | 01:23 |
| lle2 | daniels: isn't ville there in australia? | 01:24 |
| daniels | lle2: sure, but there also other connectivity guys, innit | 01:24 |
| c0ffee | on the m-d list some nokia guy said it's possible but he isn't sure whether they may release the command | 01:24 |
| c0ffee | but the firmware is just a list of "secret" hci commands | 01:24 |
| lle2 | daniels: yes, I suppose | 01:24 |
| lle2 | daniels: how's the conference? | 01:25 |
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| c0ffee | is johan hedberg related to the bt stuff as well? | 01:26 |
| lle2 | yup | 01:26 |
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| jhe | c0ffee: I just forwarded the email to ville (though I think he's subscribed to maemo-developers as well) | 01:28 |
| c0ffee | ta | 01:28 |
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| pahartik | c0ffee: is "SCO via HCI routing" related to possibly enabling Bluetooth audio device support on Nokia 770? | 01:29 |
| c0ffee | bt headset | 01:29 |
| c0ffee | not a2dp | 01:29 |
| pahartik | c0ffee: A2DP would need something else? | 01:30 |
| c0ffee | i guess so | 01:31 |
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| jhe | A2DP is done over L2CAP which is at a higher level in the stack | 01:32 |
| c0ffee | jhe, do you think there's any chance a new fw is released? | 01:32 |
| jhe | c0ffee: probably not an official one at least. something unofficial might be possible though. we'll have to wait for ville's response. | 01:33 |
| c0ffee | that would be great | 01:33 |
| c0ffee | i mean, it would be a temporal solution anyway | 01:34 |
| c0ffee | but it would rock to have bt headset finally | 01:34 |
| c0ffee | also, it would boost the 770 a bit :) | 01:34 |
| gpd | chx: http://www.grahamdavies.net/test.html | 01:34 |
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| gpd | chx: http://www.grahamdavies.net/chx_test.html | 01:35 |
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| chx | gpd: you want to blog abou this :) | 01:35 |
| pahartik | c0ffee: my Nokia HS-11W would probably like to co-operate with Nokia 770 as well | 01:35 |
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| chx | gpd: FYI I have mailed the guy who volunteered back in September to be the Drupal SQLite maintainer. If he is still willing, then I believe soon we will have our favourite little blue guy smiling on the N800 :) | 01:36 |
| [mbm] | hmm.. I'm getting the feeling that the nokia update util doesn't do a full reset (device isn't booting properly) | 01:36 |
| gpd | chx: very cool -- for now I can test with remote mysql maybe | 01:37 |
| gpd | but i need to get thttpd to use cgi php | 01:37 |
| c0ffee | so, enough for today | 01:37 |
| c0ffee | g'n8 | 01:37 |
| chx | gpd: yes. that would most probably work but then you need to get the mysql or the mysqli extension and a mysql client library as well | 01:37 |
| gpd | true :( | 01:38 |
| chx | gpd: and you can visit http://drupal.org/project/bot and reuse the script that runs the bot if you do not want to config CGI | 01:38 |
| [mbm] | any directions on resetting an 800? | 01:38 |
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| gpd | chx: so i can just download the bot from above url and install on n800? | 01:40 |
| [mbm] | (fyi - the busybox in the maemo/bora repository appears broken) | 01:41 |
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| lle2 | gpd: you should configure the cgi, imho | 01:42 |
| lle2 | gpd: that would make it a generally neat thing to have a local webserver, maybe even for other things than just drupal development ;P | 01:42 |
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| Pio | anyone know of imake ports to maemo? | 01:45 |
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| lle2 | imake? | 01:45 |
| Pio | yeah like xmkmf | 01:45 |
| Pio | i guess its no big deal, i can run xmkmf on my normal box then tweak the makefile | 01:45 |
| * Pio planning on porting x2x to maemo | 01:46 | |
| Pio | already got it to build, now i just need to make it friendly with the user input methods of maemo | 01:46 |
| chx | gpd: you just want to reuse bot_start.php so you can run Drupal from CLI but a) you need to edit it b) without a DB, you won't get far. | 01:47 |
| chx | lle2: yeah, a webserver with CGI could be great for other neat stuff | 01:47 |
| daniels | lle2: not too bad, thanks | 01:48 |
| daniels | lle2: still just getting started | 01:48 |
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| [mbm] | ugh; not even getting to teh charging screen :/ | 01:50 |
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| chx | do we have good ideas where the N800 can be had in Europe for somewhat normal prices? or just import it from the USA? | 01:50 |
| |tbb| | anyone got the navkit allready? | 01:50 |
| * [mbm] goes to try the linux flash util | 01:51 | |
| Zer0Her0 | does the n800 come with a case still? | 01:52 |
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| [mbm] | Zer0Her0: comes with a cloth sleeve | 01:53 |
| Zer0Her0 | no more hard shell for the screen :( | 01:54 |
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| [mbm] | well, the 770 had a shell you flip around, the 800 doesn't | 01:56 |
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| chx | that's bad :( from what I saw, the 770 could stand upright without holding it with that shell? | 02:05 |
| sp3001 | n800 has a built in stand | 02:06 |
| lle2 | just wrap it with duct tape and it'll be alright | 02:06 |
| chx | sp3001: it has ? great. | 02:06 |
| chx | I guess screen protection film is already available | 02:06 |
| [mbm] | comes with film on the screen | 02:08 |
| gpd | where does maemo put it's daemon facility messages? | 02:08 |
| gpd | someone on #thttpd is helping me setup php-cgi - but keeps asking difficult questions | 02:09 |
| gpd | i have no /var/log/syslog | 02:09 |
| lle2 | gpd: I think syslog's been configured to keep a buffer in memory instead of writing out to a file? | 02:10 |
| lle2 | I can't remember where that would live in the fs | 02:10 |
| lle2 | chx: I've never used a protective film on any of my gadgets, I think such films are lame :) | 02:11 |
| gpd | so how would i setup a simple php script to run as cgi? | 02:12 |
| gpd | #!/usr/local/bin/php5/php | 02:12 |
| gpd | <?php phpinfo() ?> | 02:12 |
| gpd | EOF | 02:12 |
| gpd | into /var/www/cgi-bin/test.php | 02:12 |
| lle2 | chmod +x /var/www/cgi-bin/test.php | 02:12 |
| chx | lle2: well. I find some form of protection always valuable. for example a good shell, like the Zeroshock for my valued laptop. I once landed on my back with the laptop in the backback. Not a problem. Zeroshock is great... | 02:13 |
| gpd | lle2: yes -- done that | 02:13 |
| chx | lle2: so, probably a nice shell instead of those films? | 02:13 |
| gpd | No input file specified. | 02:13 |
| lle2 | chx: I once landed on top of my ipod, twisted the bloody hard disk as well ;) | 02:14 |
| chx | lle2: ipod survived? | 02:14 |
| lle2 | chx: kinda | 02:14 |
| lle2 | chx: it kept playing until the battery ran out, then it never recovered | 02:14 |
| lle2 | chx: I only noticed the damage after getting home and wondering what made that odd sound | 02:15 |
| chx | well, the Dell X1 had zero problems after my ninety kgs flatted it. But it was in a MEC Megabyte backpack + a zeroshock so probably it would have survived a hand grenade or something :) | 02:15 |
| lle2 | ;) | 02:16 |
| lle2 | I try to avoid carrying hand grenades in my back pockets | 02:16 |
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| chx | these zeroshocks are demoed by putting a sheet of glass in it and dropping a steel ball on the shell. | 02:17 |
| chx | it looks like a cheap magic trick but it's not | 02:17 |
| chx | lle2: I never got around buying an iPod though... | 02:19 |
| lle2 | it was great while it lasted, quite literally ;) | 02:19 |
| glass | ipods can take a lot of beating | 02:20 |
| lle2 | nowadays I only use the shuffle, small enough to fit in the front pockets so no danger of me smashing it accidentally | 02:20 |
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| glass | small amounts of liquids too | 02:20 |
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| lle2 | once I figured a strategy for navigating the playlist it's not too bad from usability point either | 02:21 |
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| lle2 | gpd: try the cgi with a simple shell script first, maybe? | 02:23 |
| * pahartik does not use back pockets for anything | 02:23 | |
| gpd | lle2: yes it runs from ./test.php | 02:24 |
| lle2 | gpd: ok, well then it should work | 02:25 |
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| [mbm] | hmm .. so what does it mean if I only see the initial nokia logo and then it switches off? | 02:27 |
| lle2 | [mbm]: empty battery? | 02:27 |
| [mbm] | nope, if I plug it into the charger it just cycles that over and over | 02:27 |
| lle2 | or was that already suggested last time... | 02:28 |
| lle2 | ok.. | 02:28 |
| [mbm] | never even gets to the 'charging' screen | 02:28 |
| lle2 | you rootfs is corrupt | 02:28 |
| lle2 | maybe even initfs | 02:28 |
| lle2 | or probably initfs as well | 02:28 |
| [mbm] | thought as much but I just tried reflashing with the same results | 02:28 |
| lle2 | hmm | 02:28 |
| lle2 | then I'd take it back to the store and get another one | 02:29 |
| [mbm] | can't, this was the last one in the area | 02:29 |
| [mbm] | besides, there has to be some way to recover | 02:29 |
| lle2 | did it work initially? | 02:29 |
| [mbm] | sure, but after an update to busybox it never survived a powercycle | 02:30 |
| lle2 | oh | 02:30 |
| lle2 | what are you using to reflash it with? | 02:30 |
| [mbm] | busybox-1.1.3-3.osso17 -> busybox-1.1.3-3.sdk2 | 02:30 |
| [mbm] | tried the windows app, using linux now | 02:31 |
| [mbm] | same results both times | 02:31 |
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| lle2 | you should try to force it to reflash the initfs | 02:31 |
| [mbm] | flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 02:31 |
| lle2 | maybe if you'd extract the kernel, initfs and rootfs from that .bin file and try reflashing just the initfs? | 02:32 |
| lle2 | flasher-3.0 should be able to extract them | 02:32 |
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| chx | gpd: so we are there! | 02:41 |
| gpd | chx: pretty much! | 02:41 |
| gpd | chx: just need that patch for sqlite | 02:41 |
| chx | gpd: in the coming days, I will reroll that patch because I am pretty sure it does not apply any more | 02:41 |
| chx | gpd: well, almost -- your php does not have sqlite :( | 02:42 |
| gpd | ok -- well -- back to the --with-foo i suppose | 02:42 |
| gpd | or should we wait? | 02:42 |
| chx | let's wait | 02:42 |
| chx | we got very far today | 02:42 |
| gpd | yup -- i am impressed | 02:43 |
| chx | I would advise you to make this known to the maemo community | 02:43 |
| gpd | i'll add something to the wiki later | 02:43 |
| chx | mailing list? wiki? whatever? I am not familiar yet with how the community gets this kind of news. | 02:43 |
| gpd | i think i need coffee now ... | 02:43 |
| chx | thansk | 02:43 |
| [mbm] | still broken :/ | 02:44 |
| [mbm] | ah, r&d mode | 02:54 |
| [mbm] | strange, now it works | 02:55 |
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| gpd | chx: http://www.grahamdavies.net/cgiwrapper.cgi.html <-- php + sqlite on N800 | 03:13 |
| chx | you *rock* | 03:14 |
| gpd | chx: :D -- do you have a test script for sqlite? | 03:15 |
| gpd | Setting up sqlite (2.8.13-3) ... | 03:16 |
| gpd | ok -- i think we may have a working N800 LAMP server | 03:16 |
| gpd | LtSP -- or whatever you want to call it | 03:17 |
| chx | gpd: http://hu.php.net/manual/en/function.sqlite-open.php example | 03:19 |
| chx | gpd: well. if you want a hell of a test, post that phpinfo link to digg and see whether your N800 can stand a digging :P | 03:20 |
| gpd | err -- probably see someone doing that soon -- but rather it wasn't me ;) | 03:21 |
| chx | a static page might even stand for some time actually | 03:21 |
| chx | after all, we DID use 486 CPUs for servers | 03:22 |
| Pio | pretty sweet | 03:22 |
| chx | a 300 MHz RISC CPU just a decade ago was a hell of a servre | 03:22 |
| gpd | array(2) { [0]=> string(5) "fnord" ["bar"]=> string(5) "fnord" } | 03:23 |
| chx | works then | 03:23 |
| chx | _amazing_ | 03:23 |
| gpd | the N800 is THE FUTURE :) | 03:24 |
| gpd | i hope my sierra is waiting for me at home... | 03:24 |
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| chx | the SGI O2 had similar (well , mostly lower MHz) RISC CPUs... | 03:24 |
| gpd | i am house sitting from wednesday so i need it to step in as my 'desktop|laptop'! | 03:24 |
| chx | thought it had a bit more ram | 03:24 |
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| chx | s/thought/though | 03:24 |
| chx | but still, this is amazing | 03:24 |
| gpd | iirc 128M RAM was minimum requirement for XP --- | 03:25 |
| gpd | but i agree 256M would be nicer | 03:25 |
| chx | 64M was the req for XP | 03:25 |
| chx | I would much rather see a 600MHz XScale CPU :) and yes more RAM too | 03:26 |
| gpd | you can always swap out - but the flash cards are probably /dog/ slow wrt RAM | 03:26 |
| gpd | i think battery is the main problem atm | 03:26 |
| chx | apparently, Nokia thinks http://wiki.opensource.nokia.com/projects/Mobile_Web_Server phones should be web servers | 03:26 |
| gpd | we just need a belt made of batteries or something that we can use to charge | 03:27 |
| chx | then why not a talbet | 03:27 |
| chx | http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html | 03:28 |
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| chx | Something like this could power a N800, I believe, for a day or more :) | 03:28 |
| gpd | chx: i was thinking something /wearable/ | 03:28 |
| chx | http://www.bixnet.com/hicamiexbapa.html | 03:29 |
| gpd | i have n800 in front left pocket, wallet in right, keys in right, phone in small pocket in right (change pocket?) -- then battery belt! No bag... genius. | 03:29 |
| chx | does the N800 charge from USB http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html ? | 03:30 |
| gpd | chx: that belt battery is not bad -- but a flexible one worn /like a real belt/ would be super funk -- no geek factor | 03:30 |
| chx | hmmm maybe a Li-Poly belt is not impossible | 03:31 |
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| gpd | charging from usb required an injector i think | 03:31 |
| chx | ah | 03:31 |
| gpd | n800 requires 980mA | 03:31 |
| chx | and 5V? | 03:31 |
| gpd | yes -- but usb2 is 500mA i think | 03:32 |
| gpd | not sure what firewire is --- | 03:32 |
| chx | yes but see the page I last linked | 03:32 |
| chx | DC Output: 2000mA Max | 03:32 |
| gpd | the pocket battery -- yes looks very cool | 03:32 |
| gpd | that would enable 'supermobility' | 03:32 |
| gpd | we would probably be about 5 years ahead of our time :) | 03:33 |
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| gpd | just need flexible, paper like lcd screens! | 03:33 |
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| chx | for now I would settle with a N800, a Sierra, a decent GPS receiver and a nice, light HSDPA capable phone | 03:34 |
| gpd | wow -- at $69 that is quite tempting... not sure about 'pocket' for Size: 5.2"x 3.1"x 0.6" | 03:35 |
| gpd | chx: i agree -- modularity is the future -- forget theiPhone -- all in one crap | 03:35 |
| chx | http://www.mobiledia.com/news/55472.htmll | 03:35 |
| gpd | n800 is mostly the screen -- and can be left behind when not required | 03:35 |
| pahartik | chx: what is "Sierra"? | 03:36 |
| chx | this phone looks like it | 03:36 |
| chx | pahartik: a five row foldable BT keyboard from ThinkOutside | 03:36 |
| gpd | pahartik: thinkoutside bluetooth keyboard | 03:36 |
| pahartik | chx: oh, that... | 03:36 |
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| gpd | is HSDPA the competitor to EV-DO -- or is it faster? | 03:37 |
| gpd | i gave up following all the cellphone stuff | 03:37 |
| glass | well | 03:37 |
| glass | i don't think hsdpa is available anywhere where evdo is | 03:38 |
| glass | hsdpa is 1-3mbps currently | 03:38 |
| chx | 1.3mbps much rather | 03:39 |
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| chx | 1.8 I mean :) | 03:40 |
| chx | 3.6 will come later | 03:40 |
| glass | i think they rolled it out in sweden? | 03:40 |
| glass | or something | 03:40 |
| glass | under the name of "super 3g or something" | 03:40 |
| glass | anyhow, 1mbps is plenty and realistical | 03:40 |
| chx | yup | 03:41 |
| chx | it's rolled out in several countries now | 03:41 |
| chx | Several networks are transitioning their customers to HSDPA networks. In Australia, Telstra has announced the closure of its EV-DO network and is moving customers to its faster HSDPA network. In South Korea, KTF and SK Telecom have stopped investing in their CDMA2000 networks and from early 2007 will begin transitioning customers to their new HSDPA networks. | 03:41 |
| chx | source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-DO | 03:42 |
| * gpd is tempted by the 5V pocket battery thingy for $69 | 03:42 | |
| glass | yeah we got some 1mbps hsdpa flatfee for ~40e/month here | 03:43 |
| gpd | do we know the Wh capacity of the N800/770 battery for comparison? | 03:43 |
| gpd | The pocket one has 26.6Wh | 03:43 |
| gpd | i don't suppose anyone has used one with their 770? > http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html | 03:45 |
| gpd | wait --- hold on | 03:45 |
| gpd | i remember someone saying that the USB cable isn't wired to the battery | 03:45 |
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| chx | gpd: http://www.shentech.com/wimbapafordi.html you need to do market research before jumping | 03:45 |
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| gpd | but that makes no sense -- since the injectors exist | 03:45 |
| chx | gpd: both batteries have regular jack cables as well | 03:45 |
| gpd | chx: true -- good point -- i will 'settle down' ;) | 03:46 |
| chx | 1300mAh , 3.7V | 03:47 |
| gpd | it is less of an issue in the US - becuase most places allow you to / provide wall sockets for laptops -- but I return to UK soon and not sure what happens there | 03:47 |
| chx | that's like, huh, 4.8 Wh :) | 03:47 |
| gpd | that is the nokia one? | 03:48 |
| ntrs | Can someone please provide a port/rebuild minicom for n800? | 03:48 |
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| gpd | ntrs: have you tried building -- or justnot got a scratchbox? | 03:48 |
| Pio | what for, does the n800 have a serial port? | 03:49 |
| ntrs | I don't have scratchbox and I don't think I can do it | 03:49 |
| gpd | ntrs: is there one for 770? | 03:49 |
| ntrs | gpd, not sure | 03:50 |
| ntrs | Pio, I need for dialup with a cell phone | 03:50 |
| gpd | what cellphone? | 03:50 |
| ntrs | gpd, any cellphone with bluetooth DUN | 03:50 |
| chx | gpd: yes, 1300 mAh, 3.7V, that's the Nokia battery | 03:50 |
| chx | other source says 1500 mAh. not much difference | 03:51 |
| gpd | ntrs: if you are sure you need it - then i will try the compiile | 03:51 |
| ntrs | gpd, I am pretty sure I need it :) | 03:52 |
| chx | checked Nokia site. Nokia BP-5L Li-Polymer Battery (1500 mAh) | 03:52 |
| Pio | im not sure that minicom will really do what you want | 03:52 |
| ntrs | Pio, why do you think that? | 03:52 |
| Pio | unless bluetooth DUN works exactly like a serial port, transparently to userspace | 03:52 |
| ntrs | Pio, I think there is a device that can be used with minicom. I don't exactly remember the device name but I will find out. | 03:53 |
| Pio | huh, weird | 03:53 |
| Pio | i dont know anything about bluetooth dialup | 03:53 |
| Pio | so dont put too much stock in what im saying :) | 03:53 |
| gpd | ntrs: i too know nothing aobut DUN - but i know i got it working with the stock nokia stuff - is this for testing / a weird phone? | 03:54 |
| gpd | [compiling] | 03:54 |
| ntrs | gpd, no, I need it on a daily basis to access a remote device on a modem. | 03:54 |
| ntrs | I also need Java Applet support in the browser :) | 03:58 |
| pahartik | ntrs: is it something more complicated than what can be done with "/usr/sbin/chat"? | 03:58 |
| gpd | ntrs: http://www.grahamdavies.net/minicom_2.1-9_armel.deb | 03:58 |
| gpd | try that -- no idea if it will work -- but that is debian recompiled | 03:58 |
| gpd | from here: http://packages.debian.org/stable/source/minicom | 03:58 |
| ntrs | gpd, ok, I will check it out | 03:59 |
| ntrs | pahartik, I don't know. I never thought of that. | 03:59 |
| chx | see http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2005-June/000010.html this far Java | 04:03 |
| gpd | there was talk of PhoneME last week -- a working version | 04:03 |
| gpd | ~ $ minicom | 04:04 |
| gpd | No termcap entry for xterm-color | 04:04 |
| gpd | Usage: find [PATH...] [EXPRESSION] <-- during dpkg -i | 04:05 |
| chx | oh and http://sebas-nokia770.blogspot.com/2006/12/java-on-nokia-770-simple-and-easy.html | 04:05 |
| ntrs | chx, Aleksandyr|AFK said earlier that that actually does not work, | 04:06 |
| chx | ntrs: dunno. I do not yet have the device, gpd only today convinced me that I should get one | 04:06 |
| gpd | chx: don't blame me ;) | 04:07 |
| chx | gpd: :) | 04:08 |
| gpd | chx: subjective question for you: how long should i wait before updating my drupal-4.7 sites to 5.0 ? | 04:09 |
| gpd | [also very off topic :|] | 04:09 |
| gpd | ntrs: any luck? | 04:15 |
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| ntrs | gpd, "unable to install. Incompatible application package | 04:30 |
| ntrs | " | 04:30 |
| gpd | ~ $ dpkg -l |grep minicom | 04:31 |
| gpd | ii minicom 2.1-9 friendly menu driven serial communication pr | 04:31 |
| ntrs | Status: not installable | 04:31 |
| gpd | ~ $ uname -a | 04:31 |
| gpd | Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Tue Dec 19 18:41:02 EET 2006 armv6l unknown | 04:31 |
| gpd | how did you install? | 04:31 |
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| ntrs | app manager | 04:32 |
| gpd | hm. did you try with just: | 04:32 |
| ntrs | trying now | 04:33 |
| gpd | # dpkg -i foo.deb ? | 04:33 |
| gpd | i got errors that looked like it was failing to use find properly | 04:33 |
| gpd | possibly during a post-install script | 04:33 |
| gpd | i know that the ash find has very few options | 04:34 |
| ntrs | ok dpkg worked | 04:34 |
| ntrs | now I have to find out what the name was of that device | 04:34 |
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| * gpd grumbles at instant messaging client's lack of timestamp support | 04:36 | |
| * gpd retracts grumble -- finds timestamp in settings | 04:36 | |
| gpd | this device is genius! | 04:36 |
| pahartik | ntrs: something like "/dev/bluetooth/rfcomm/[0-9]"? | 04:37 |
| ntrs | pahartik, yes something like that | 04:37 |
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| gpd | anyone suggest a php script that uses sqlite that i can use to test this LAMP N800? | 04:38 |
| gpd | maybe a wiki or something | 04:39 |
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| ntrs | what is this "metalayer-crawler" process? I have two of them each using 68 MB of ram. | 04:39 |
| ntrs | I can only start one browser and xterm and all the ram is gone. | 04:39 |
| gpd | 1142 user S 2868 332 0.0 2.2 metalayer-crawl | 04:40 |
| gpd | 1143 user S 2868 1142 0.0 2.2 metalayer-crawl | 04:40 |
| gpd | not sure what it is however | 04:40 |
| ntrs | how do I enter Ctrl-A? | 04:40 |
| gpd | Description: Metalayer Crawler Daemon Crawler is a program that is always running on the background. The purpose of the program is to collect information about the comings and goings of media files in the system. The metadata of media files is automatically extracted using libmetalayer for other applications to use. | 04:41 |
| gpd | 04:41 | |
| gpd | ntrs: in osso-xterm? there is a menu item for it | 04:41 |
| ntrs | ok thanks. | 04:41 |
| ntrs | I don't think I see the device | 04:47 |
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| gpd | any thoughts on any of these: | 04:51 |
| gpd | bitweaver, ErfurtWiki, Midgard Wiki, miniWiki, PhpWiki, TikiWiki, WackoWiki, Wiclear, WikkaWiki and WikyBlog | 04:51 |
| gpd | wikimatrix.org suggests they full fill my requirements | 04:51 |
| pahartik | ntrs: usually Bluetooth serial port device bindings would be configured in "/etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf", but Maemo has got some special setup to take care of that | 04:53 |
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| gpd | ok - shortend that to erfurtwiki, phpwiki, tikiwiki - only those support sqlite | 04:53 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "special setup" as in "connection manager daemon" or something... | 04:54 |
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| ntrs | gpd, pahartik, I think n800 cannot really use a BT DUN to dial up a remote modem. The only way to connect to a BT phone is to use the connection manager to start an internet connection. | 04:55 |
| gpd | ntrs: so when I said 'are you sure you need it'... you weren't sure ;) | 04:56 |
| ntrs | I am sure I need it but I just found out that what I need is not available (yet). | 04:57 |
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| pahartik | ntrs: Bluetooth serial port is supported, but in Maemo binding between serial port and target device is performed dynamically | 05:00 |
| ntrs | pahartik, it would be nice if there was a manual way to do the binding. | 05:00 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "rfcomm --help" | 05:01 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "man rfcomm" of "bluez-utils" tells somewhat more... | 05:10 |
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| ntrs | rfcomm seems complicated. I don't have the inside knowledge of how maemo sets things up. What is the device to bind for example? | 05:12 |
| * gpd runs PhpWiki on N800 :) | 05:13 | |
| ntrs | for example "rfcomm -a" shows no devices | 05:13 |
| ntrs | even though bluetooth is enabled on both devices | 05:15 |
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| pahartik | ntrs: "hcitool scan" to find out "bdaddr" of device | 05:17 |
| ntrs | pahartik, is the bdaddr the hardware address or the name of the device. both are shown | 05:19 |
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| pahartik | ntrs: then "rfcomm bind rfcomm1 <bdaddr>" or "rfcomm bind 1 <bdaddr>" (I do not remember which) | 05:20 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "bdaddr" is that numeric ID, just like MAC | 05:21 |
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| ntrs | This metalayer-crawler process is driving me crazy. uses 100% of the CPU almost and about 68 MB of ram | 05:34 |
| ntrs | What part of n800 is responsible for this? Can I safely kill the processes? | 05:34 |
| ntrs | anyone? | 05:38 |
| gpd | i'm sure you could kill it -- or more safetly just reboot | 05:44 |
| ntrs | I killed it and the n800 rebooted by itself immediately. After a reboot the process is still there and using 99% of CPU | 05:45 |
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| ntrs | gpd, pahartik, I got minicom working through DUN and dialing a remote modem | 05:52 |
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| ntrs | I am still bothered though by this metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU | 05:58 |
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| * gpd stabs Windows with fury | 06:20 | |
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| gpd | ntrs: sorry couldn't read your last message since on the nokia and scrolled up -- great work | 06:47 |
| ntrs | I am still bothered though by this metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU | 06:47 |
| gpd | did you reboot? | 06:47 |
| gpd | or attempt to kill? | 06:47 |
| ntrs | after I kill the n800 reboots by itself immediately | 06:54 |
| ntrs | after a reboot this process is up and using 99% again | 06:54 |
| gpd | have you tried without the SD cards? | 06:55 |
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| ntrs | hmm, let me try that. | 06:56 |
| ntrs | I only have an internal sd | 06:56 |
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| * gpd investigates mediawiki - wiki-on-a-stick for N800 microLAMP | 07:01 | |
| ntrs | gpd, same thing with or without the SD | 07:03 |
| gpd | hmm - is this only since installing minicom? | 07:04 |
| gpd | what repositories do you have in /etc/apt/sources.list? | 07:05 |
| ntrs | I don't think it has anything to do with minicom | 07:05 |
| gpd | any new files in your / system ? | 07:06 |
| gpd | if it is trying to extract metadata - it might be getting 'confused' | 07:06 |
| ntrs | I have a few repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list. Should I be looking for a particular one? | 07:07 |
| gpd | anythi | 07:07 |
| gpd | just worried that something got 'updated' when you were trying the appliation manager. | 07:08 |
| gpd | do you have any mistral repos? or other stuff? | 07:08 |
| ntrs | dmesg shows amny of these "EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled" and "EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled" | 07:08 |
| gpd | shame there is no /var/log/dpkg.log :( | 07:08 |
| gpd | i have that too | 07:09 |
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| gpd | but my metalayer-crawler is behaving | 07:09 |
| ntrs | the EAC messages do not look godd | 07:09 |
| ntrs | good | 07:09 |
| gpd | unlikely to be the problem since i have them too | 07:10 |
| ntrs | right. | 07:10 |
| gpd | not sure - you might be best to wait for the Europe people to awake -- i am just a user like yourself -- now with 1 week tablet experience! | 07:11 |
| ntrs | ok | 07:12 |
| * gpd fails to get dokuwiki running... | 07:14 | |
| gpd | too many .php programs need redirecting to use php-cgi :( | 07:14 |
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| keesj | Hi | 07:51 |
| keesj | I this OpenVG for real? | 07:54 |
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| osfameron | wooot! apparently n800 has been shipped | 10:19 |
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| keesj | osfameron, your n800 ? | 10:28 |
| osfameron | yarrr | 10:30 |
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| Veggen | got mine yesterday. | 10:39 |
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| osfameron | apparently they're sending the unit today. The SD card will come later | 10:40 |
| Veggen | I canceled the SD cards to be sure, picked up some locally. | 10:41 |
| keesj | Veggen, I saw thoughtfix's youtube overview it looks like the UI is faster,how is the thumb keyboard? | 10:41 |
| osfameron | yeah, I should have done that 'cos they're cheaper | 10:41 |
| Veggen | thumb keyboard I haven't tried, really. Haven't had too much time to play with it, yet. | 10:41 |
| osfameron | but then again, I have a bad habit of not buying accessories if I don't order them initially, cos I'm too stingy, so left it in | 10:41 |
| Veggen | I need to get the hard cover, I think. | 10:42 |
| Veggen | the N800 slips out way too easily, from what it comes with now. | 10:42 |
| nnod | Veggen: is it a leather pouch? | 10:43 |
| Veggen | not really leather, I think. | 10:44 |
| Veggen | maybe. | 10:44 |
| keesj | what is the status with OpenVG it is there or not? | 10:44 |
| Veggen | ...where? | 10:44 |
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| keesj | Veggen, http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/007195.htm | 10:48 |
| keesj | Aparentlly he think the N800 contains a OpenVG compatible chip thing | 10:49 |
| Guardian | morning all | 10:51 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:57 |
| Veggen | keesj: if you find something I can run, I can check. Not much time to play from work ;) | 10:57 |
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| koen | keesj: I doubt there are (open) linux driver for the mbx | 11:00 |
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| koen | keesj: the drivers I encountered were all for 2.4.ancient and closed | 11:01 |
| keesj | koen: can i read this a "yes" there is such a hardware openvg in there? | 11:01 |
| koen | keesj: I know TI says the 2420 has '3d' which means a powervr core | 11:02 |
| koen | keesj: I do not know if it is present in the 2420 in the n800 | 11:02 |
| koen | keesj: intel will give you a discount if you buy 'broken' chips, e.g. without a framebuffer | 11:03 |
| koen | maybe TI does the same | 11:03 |
| Veggen | Features: swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java | 11:04 |
| Veggen | says cat /proc/cpuinfo | 11:04 |
| suihkulokki | someone with extra time could see if it is actually possible to download anything from: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/index.asp?Page=PowerVRSDKs#1 | 11:04 |
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| Veggen | "Processor: Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 (v61) | 11:07 |
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| * koen downloads http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/Downloads/files/SDK_OGLES_LINUX_MV_ARMV6.tgz | 11:08 | |
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| keesj | koen I think this is the opengl one and not the openvg | 11:13 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:28 |
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| vittorio | is openvg something like cairo? or is it more lowlevel? | 11:32 |
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| Guardian | how does it usually take to get feeback from a bug entered on https://maemo.org/bugzilla ? | 11:42 |
| X-Fade | Guardian: It doesn't take long lately. I've had responses in the order of hours/a few days. | 11:44 |
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| Guardian | ok | 11:51 |
| Guardian | thx :) | 11:51 |
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| tigert | yrmh | 12:15 |
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| sbaturzioAtWork | Aloha! | 12:41 |
| Jaffa | LO sbaturzioAtWork | 12:41 |
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| bedboi | anyone knows if gpe-expenses has been ported to maemo | 13:09 |
| bedboi | ? | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | tigert: For the drop shadow of the planet bubble, do you really want the master opacity be 5%? | 13:17 |
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| Jaffa | bedboi: NAFAIK | 13:25 |
| Eloi | bedboi: NAFAIK too, but you have Grisbi as a replacement: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-dff023d4a44a564b093601d6e5a46b7c0af44846 | 13:31 |
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| KermitTheFragger | hello | 13:56 |
| KermitTheFragger | we are currently evaluating the noka n800 as a replacment for our psion workabouts | 13:56 |
| KermitTheFragger | while this may sound odd :) we would like a more open product | 13:56 |
| KermitTheFragger | we would like to use it with a bluetooth barcode scanner: http://www.baracoda.com/baracoda/products/p_1.html | 13:57 |
| KermitTheFragger | is there anybody here who has done something simelear ? | 13:57 |
| KermitTheFragger | so its basicly for stock checking etc | 13:57 |
| osfameron | sounds like fun | 13:58 |
| osfameron | I thought that thought of thing was usually done with a dedicated device | 13:59 |
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| KermitTheFragger | well psion workabouts are fun | 13:59 |
| KermitTheFragger | but they are expensive | 13:59 |
| KermitTheFragger | and a n800 is only 399 | 13:59 |
| KermitTheFragger | you can almost buy 4 n800's for one crappy workabout | 13:59 |
| osfameron | eeeek! | 14:00 |
| osfameron | well, good luck with that | 14:00 |
| * osfameron heads to lunch | 14:00 | |
| KermitTheFragger | and i wont even begin on the license fees of the SDK you need.... | 14:00 |
| KermitTheFragger | have a nice lunch! :) | 14:00 |
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| tigert | inz? | 14:08 |
| tigert | http://uwstopia.nl/blog/2006/07/tango-terminal | 14:08 |
| tigert | do we support that property in maemo-hackers enterprise level osso-xterm? | 14:09 |
| tigert | ;) | 14:10 |
| c0ffee | lalala | 14:16 |
| Jaffa | KermitTheFragger: shouldn't be any reason a Bluetooth barcode reader shouldn't work. My one concern with N800s vs. Workabouts is ruggedness. | 14:17 |
| KermitTheFragger | Jaffa: believe me, you dont want to drop a workabout :) | 14:17 |
| KermitTheFragger | its pretty much end of story | 14:17 |
| KermitTheFragger | so i guess that will be the same with the n800 | 14:18 |
| KermitTheFragger | and the n800 is a LOT cheaper, so replacing it will be cheaper | 14:18 |
| Jaffa | Sounds perfect then :) | 14:20 |
| tigert | I think the 770 is a lot more durable than the N800 | 14:20 |
| tigert | though nokia products do take quite a lot of beating without breaking | 14:20 |
| KermitTheFragger | tigert: in what way ? | 14:20 |
| glass | the hardcover probably helps | 14:20 |
| tigert | not the hardcover | 14:20 |
| tigert | but the 770 is very very sturdy | 14:21 |
| glass | well it's extra layer | 14:21 |
| glass | on the corners | 14:21 |
| tigert | yeah that too | 14:21 |
| tigert | but I dont use a hardcover on mine | 14:21 |
| KermitTheFragger | is there a rugged case for either one ? | 14:21 |
| glass | anyways, i'd imagine 770 surviving falling a few times | 14:21 |
| tigert | glass: the standard presentation trick for the 770 was to casually "oops" and drop it to the floor in a nice swing | 14:22 |
| tigert | and then continue as if nothing had happened | 14:22 |
| tigert | try that with an UMPC | 14:22 |
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| KermitTheFragger | cool :) | 14:22 |
| glass | ha | 14:22 |
| tigert | its tough. of course it wont stand everything | 14:22 |
| tigert | the N800 has the metal cover that probably can come off easier | 14:22 |
| tigert | but its pretty tough on the body too | 14:23 |
| tigert | but don't go throwing yours on concrete just because I said its tough :) | 14:23 |
| KermitTheFragger | well coincidently one of our customers is a nokia repair center :) | 14:24 |
| KermitTheFragger | but slamming them into concrete isnt going to be coverd by warrenty i guess :) | 14:24 |
| * KermitTheFragger is currently checking the nokia site for rugged cases | 14:25 | |
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| KermitTheFragger | hmm nokia got everything from speakers to foldable bluetooth keyboards, but no cases :( | 14:27 |
| ab | KermitTheFragger: they don't have additional cases for 770 or N800 | 14:28 |
| KermitTheFragger | ab: darn :( | 14:29 |
| KermitTheFragger | are there comming any ? | 14:29 |
| ab | don't think so. I've talked about rugged cases nearly a year ago but they were not interested yet | 14:29 |
| tigert | well, I bet making cases might be some other company's core business rather | 14:31 |
| keesj | I can see thinkgeek to create the Don't panic one, | 14:33 |
| keesj | or one for when you to to bad neighborhoods | 14:33 |
| ab | KermitTheFragger: you'd better talk to Otterbox.com or similar vendors | 14:35 |
| ab | KermitTheFragger: Otterbox has rugged PDA cases, may be them would be close enough to N800? | 14:35 |
| KermitTheFragger | ab: ok, ill do that, thx for the tip | 14:35 |
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| osfameron | I was thinking about getting someone to make a leather case for my N800, seeing as I'm in Firenze and have lots of leather shops to choose from | 14:46 |
| osfameron | of course that might be a) silly, and b) cost more than the machine | 14:46 |
| dottedmag | osfameron: my wife makes/sells custom leather things (including cases, I use one for ipaq1940), but sending them abroad is too problematic :( | 14:47 |
| osfameron | dottedmag: shame. I'd be interested to see a photo if you've got one posted somewhere, though | 14:48 |
| dottedmag | osfameron: hmm... can't find one :( | 14:50 |
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| Guardian | re | 14:56 |
| Guardian | anyone here has an opinion on expat vs libxml2 ? | 14:56 |
| Guardian | seems that both are available | 14:56 |
| dottedmag | Guardian: expat is only SAX, libxml2 has the DOM. expat's SAX is easier, but you have to use libxml2 if you can't live with SAX only. | 14:57 |
| Guardian | oh did not notice about the SAX vs DOM issue | 14:58 |
| Guardian | never used XML in C or C++, only in Java | 14:58 |
| koen | GMarkup is SAX as well? | 14:58 |
| dottedmag | koen: what's the GMarkup? | 14:59 |
| koen | glib's internal xml parser | 14:59 |
| koen | http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.4/glib/glib-Simple-XML-Subset-Parser.html | 15:00 |
| dottedmag | Oh my. Do they have a tetris inside glib? ;) | 15:00 |
| k-s | daniels: so, the xorg runs at 55hz? | 15:00 |
| dottedmag | koen: yeah. it's kind-of-SAX. | 15:00 |
| k-s | daniels: but is there any way to get the vertical sync signal? | 15:01 |
| k-s | daniels: we're porting canola to run on n800, but it flicks too much since software runs much faster now | 15:01 |
| k-s | daniels: it would be good to have backingstore enabled on X or at least double-buffer in SDL | 15:01 |
| k-s | daniels: but SDL is reporting 0kb video memory and no double-buffer support | 15:02 |
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| chx | a ... tetris inside glib?? | 15:14 |
| Wiredless | good morning | 15:14 |
| chx | dottedmag: wha? | 15:14 |
| Wiredless | do themes created for 770 work ok on n800? | 15:14 |
| Wiredless | anyone know? | 15:15 |
| tigert | Wiredless: mostly | 15:15 |
| tigert | there are some differences | 15:15 |
| tigert | there are templates for both | 15:15 |
| tigert | on stage.maemo.org I think | 15:15 |
| tigert | the hildon-theme-*-2 stuff is for 770 (OS2006) | 15:15 |
| tigert | and the -3 are for N800 (OS2007) | 15:15 |
| Wiredless | know if urho has a new them builder build for n800? | 15:15 |
| tigert | I think the theme builder can use a template | 15:16 |
| tigert | and a coords file | 15:16 |
| tigert | so it should be able to use both | 15:16 |
| Wiredless | i see | 15:16 |
| tigert | Wiredless: do you have linux and scratchbox? | 15:16 |
| dottedmag | chx: well, they have a kind of XML parser. They might have a tetris or kitchen sink :) | 15:16 |
| Wiredless | thanks tigert | 15:16 |
| Wiredless | no i do not | 15:16 |
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| tigert | Wiredless: ok. if you did, you could also use the theme tools | 15:17 |
| Wiredless | well i do have a linux box but never got that all set up | 15:17 |
| tigert | yea | 15:17 |
| Wiredless | i will look into that when i get time | 15:17 |
| Wiredless | do lowly them developers qualify for the n800 developer discount? lol | 15:18 |
| Wiredless | theme | 15:18 |
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| Jurop88 | hi all | 15:45 |
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| inz | i just realized that while opera page scaling works nicely for badly made (fixed width) pages, it generally sucks for well made ones | 15:55 |
| k-s | tigert: there is any hope to get a more clean theme for n800? | 15:55 |
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| k-s | I don't like the high contrast, black/windows white... | 15:56 |
| k-s | I like 770 orange theme more | 15:56 |
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| Jaffa | inz: yup. bizarre isn't it? | 15:58 |
| inz | firefox font scaling would work better | 15:59 |
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| seebs | So, the N800 doesn't come with scp, ftp, or anything like them. If I wanted an app not to depend on those, and I wanted it to copy a file over the network, what would be a good way? | 16:22 |
| Jaffa | seebs: add "Depends: openssh" to your debian/control file | 16:23 |
| seebs | I really don't want to do that, though, because then no one who hasn't set up the apt stuff can install it. | 16:23 |
| seebs | I'm trying to build a clean, self-contained, application. :( | 16:23 |
| seebs | I ruled out ftp as too much work to implement by hand. I am thinking I might be able to pull off an http upload. | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | seebs: provide clear documentation, anything else is broken, especially with the limited disk space. | 16:24 |
| * koen hints at .install files | 16:24 | |
| Jaffa | Indeed. I'm not sure we've got an answer as to whether or not a single .install could add multiple repos, though? | 16:25 |
| koen | go the extra yard and add it all into extras | 16:25 |
| seebs | Man. I really just want an anticurl. :) | 16:28 |
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| ntrs_ | Can someone help with this problem? s metalayer-crawler process using 99% of the CPU | 16:28 |
| ntrs_ | Can someone help with this problem? The metalayer-crawler process is using 99% of the CPU. | 16:29 |
| seebs | Why is that a problem? :P | 16:29 |
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| ntrs_ | because the whole device is very slow and performance is choppy. | 16:30 |
| ntrs_ | I tried rebooting and removing the battery. Upon restart, same thing again. | 16:31 |
| seebs | Hmm. | 16:32 |
| seebs | I don't even have that process on my N800. | 16:32 |
| Veggen | I do. | 16:35 |
| Veggen | There's an strace for the 770 that maybe would work on the N800? | 16:35 |
| Veggen | (to see what it's actually doing) | 16:36 |
| ||cw | what's metalayer | 16:36 |
| ntrs_ | seebs, are you sure you don't have it? | 16:36 |
| ||cw | ntrs_: do you have a lot of stuff on a sd card? | 16:38 |
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| Veggen | I think perhaps it indexes metadata from your mediafiles. | 16:38 |
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| ntrs_ | I only have a backup created with the backup application. I tried removing the sd cards, still the same. | 16:38 |
| ntrs_ | Veggen, the thing is, I don't have any media files. | 16:38 |
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| seebs | Well, nothing in "ps ax | grep meta". | 16:40 |
| ntrs_ | How can I stop this process from starting on boot? If I kill it, it reboots the n800. I don't really need metadata indexes as I don't use the n800 for media viewing. | 16:40 |
| ntrs_ | seebs, do you have the media streamer installed? | 16:41 |
| seebs | I don't think so. | 16:41 |
| Veggen | metalayer crawler is part of the mediaplayer suite, but it's installed per default, right? | 16:42 |
| Veggen | try to stop it with the script in /etc/init.d? | 16:43 |
| ntrs_ | Maybe media streamer installs it. | 16:43 |
| ntrs_ | Ok, I'll try that too | 16:44 |
| Veggen | that uses dsmetool to stop it. think perhaps that makes it not crash the thing. | 16:44 |
| lle2 | it doesn't crash, it reboots rapidly :) | 16:50 |
| osfameron | ooo! this looks sweet for N800 media http://www.bluonyx.com/bluonyx.cfm | 16:50 |
| seebs | Hmm. metalayer-crawler is installed on my system, it's just not running. | 16:51 |
| seebs | Wow, I'm just hosed. There is NOTHING I can do on the N800 to upload files except: | 16:51 |
| seebs | 1. Depend on other packages -- a definite no-no for my purposes. | 16:51 |
| seebs | 2. Write the entire protocol code myself. | 16:52 |
| seebs | There's NOTHING on here that can do any file upload protocol, except maybe very elaborate abuses of the GUI apps, which are also non-starters. | 16:52 |
| seebs | No NFS, no remote copy, no telnet, no ftp of any variety whatsoever. | 16:54 |
| koen | seebs: libsoup isn't installed by default? | 16:54 |
| seebs | Well, nothing with "soup" in its name in /usr/lib, anyway. | 16:55 |
| inz | koen, it isn't, curl is | 16:55 |
| inz | or rather, libcurl | 16:55 |
| seebs | Hmmmm. | 16:56 |
| seebs | DING! | 16:56 |
| seebs | You have saved my life. Libcurl does what I need. | 16:56 |
| seebs | I had only looked at the shell client app, which doesn't. | 16:56 |
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| seebs | Oh, wait. It does too. Yeek! | 17:02 |
| seebs | Shows what I get for dismissing curl as a downloader. | 17:02 |
| ntrs_ | Veggen, ok, stopping it with the init script stopped the processes. Now, how do I make this change permanent? change the script's name from S..... to K..... ? | 17:07 |
| ntrs_ | or delete the script altogether? | 17:07 |
| Jaffa | seebs: yeah, curl can POST just fine | 17:08 |
| Veggen | ntrs: hmm, changing it from S to K would be preferable, I think. | 17:08 |
| Veggen | even though it's not the maemo way, perhaps, it *is* the SysV-init way :) | 17:08 |
| inz | ntrs, update-rc.d is the "official" way, but modding the symlinks by hand is easier =) | 17:08 |
| Veggen | and it does the same thing. | 17:09 |
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| seebs | Hmm. | 17:10 |
| seebs | libjpeg REALLY wants a stdio file. | 17:10 |
| seebs | I, by contrast, REALLY want to just copy data around in memory. | 17:10 |
| seebs | There doesn't happen to be a really cheap and easy way to get a FILE* that just points to a buffer, does there? | 17:10 |
| ntrs_ | inz, what is update-rc.d? | 17:10 |
| ntrs_ | inz and where is it? | 17:11 |
| inz | ntrs, it's an utility (in debian) for updating the initscripts | 17:11 |
| inz | ntrs, it should be /usr/sbin/update-rc.d | 17:11 |
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| pahartik | ntrs_: "update-rc.d(8) - install and remove System-V style init script links" | 17:12 |
| ntrs_ | inz, thanks | 17:12 |
| s-ndh-c | it symlinks the initscripts to the runlevel dirs | 17:12 |
| seebs | Doh! fmemopen | 17:13 |
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| Ayoze | hi all :) | 17:20 |
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| nnod | seebs: you need to look into jpeg_buff_dest et al | 17:22 |
| seebs | Hmm. My docs just talk about writing a destination manager. | 17:23 |
| seebs | fmemopen's WAY easier. :) | 17:23 |
| nnod | seebs: that's it, it's not too hard | 17:23 |
| seebs | Also, curl wanted a FILE* too. | 17:23 |
| seebs | So now I have them both using an internal file, and all I have to do is change one line of code to use fmemopen. :) | 17:24 |
| nnod | in that case, maybe fmemopen is better | 17:25 |
| nnod | dang, fmemopen looks much easer! i wish i'd known about it before | 17:26 |
| seebs | It is awesome. | 17:27 |
| seebs | BSD has funopen, which is even more generic. | 17:27 |
| Tak | and more fun | 17:31 |
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| dballester | hi to all | 17:31 |
| Jaffa | lo dballester | 17:31 |
| seebs | Drat! | 17:35 |
| seebs | curl is not smart enough to trust me when I tell it the size of my file. | 17:36 |
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| ntrs_ | where are the files for the initial two nokia images when starting up the device? | 17:36 |
| seebs | So it writes the whole buffer. | 17:36 |
| Tak | wow @ david weinehall list flame | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | Something's fubar with Garage's "most active this week portlet", it seems being created is enough to push you *way* ahead of most other forms of activity. | 17:37 |
| Jaffa | Tak: indeed. | 17:37 |
| c0ffee | what flame? | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | "You're all whinging, heaven forbid Nokia do something for you for once, all you do is take. Wah wah wah". | 17:39 |
| * Jaffa may, of course, be paraphrasing ;-) | 17:39 | |
| c0ffee | well | 17:39 |
| c0ffee | hoffmann has a point as well | 17:39 |
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| c0ffee | maybe even a few hundret ppl are sitting there wanting to work with the n800 and can't | 17:40 |
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| c0ffee | it would be enough to say 'if you buy it online, we refund you the $300 in case' | 17:40 |
| Jaffa | That'd require Nokia saying *something*, which according to David Weinehall is just expecting Too Much[TM]. | 17:41 |
| c0ffee | hehe | 17:42 |
| c0ffee | there are bits and pieces! | 17:42 |
| suihkulokki | you could allways just sell the extra device and recover the $300 back.. | 17:42 |
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| glass | unlikely that you wouldn't few bucks in the process | 17:42 |
| glass | +lose | 17:42 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 17:43 |
| glass | just saying either way would help probably | 17:43 |
| glass | if people are just sitting and waiting | 17:43 |
| c0ffee | and according to german law, you had to give 2years warranty | 17:43 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: true, there are bits and pieces. I don't mind waiting to find out, but an *indefinite* wait is what's annoying people, IMHO. | 17:44 |
| c0ffee | well | 17:44 |
| c0ffee | david said one or two weeks | 17:44 |
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| Jaffa | c0ffee: his points get lost in the combative way he makes his point. Is it so unreasonable for someone to ask on maemo-dev when the discount codes would be finalised *so that they can spend money with Nokia*? | 17:47 |
| ntrs_ | where are the files for the initial two nokia images when starting up the device? | 17:47 |
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| c0ffee | Jaffa, fair enough | 17:47 |
| c0ffee | ntrs_, you mean the splashscreen? | 17:49 |
| c0ffee | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=441 | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: of course he's right, patience is a virtue and it's only been just over a week - but there's no mention of the deadline, users are getting the devices and asking questions of devs who can't answer them as they've held off buying one Just In Case. | 17:51 |
| lle2 | I think it's been a bit clumsy not to give a deadline | 17:52 |
| Tak | hell, I just can't afford to pay $400 for one right now | 17:52 |
| s-ndh-c | why does this stupid filebrowser not show the whole filesystem? | 17:53 |
| lle2 | because it can? | 17:54 |
| s-ndh-c | i guess i could just create a link to / from the dir that the filemanager displays | 17:54 |
| keesj | because end user would not understand it perhaps? | 17:54 |
| ntrs_ | c0ffee, yes, the splashscreens | 17:54 |
| s-ndh-c | i hope so atleast | 17:54 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 17:54 |
| s-ndh-c | keesj: they shouldnt be using linux then | 17:54 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 17:54 |
| keesj | I think it's a gconf option end there used to even be a .deb package to "fix" it | 17:54 |
| c0ffee | ntrs_, see the bugzilla url i pasted | 17:54 |
| keesj | but why call it stupid | 17:54 |
| ntrs_ | s-ndh-c, yes a symlink will work just fine | 17:55 |
| c0ffee | s-ndh-c, use the web browser file://localhost/ | 17:55 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 17:55 |
| s-ndh-c | will try | 17:55 |
| c0ffee | i'd rather see preliminary headset support for 770 :) | 17:56 |
| c0ffee | then i can easily wait another month | 17:56 |
| s-ndh-c | the n800 looks cool | 17:56 |
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| keesj | c0ffee, bluetooth or any? | 17:58 |
| c0ffee | bt | 17:58 |
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| gpd | has anyone tried lighttpd on tablet before? | 18:27 |
| gpd | i just built it and tested with a very basic configuration and it seems to work | 18:28 |
| gpd | if i can get php with fast-cgi and lighttpd running - then :D | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | Looks like a good contender for mud-builder.garage.maemo.org | 18:28 |
| gpd | Jaffa: i had to build from source -- the debian package gave me builddep issues | 18:29 |
| gpd | and as supplied by debian it would be too heavy i thinks -- ie. mysql | 18:29 |
| keesj | gpd, that is no problem | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | gpd: Yeah, I've found building from source tarballs works best (e.g. https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/*checkout*/trunk/packages/imagemagick.xml?root=mud-builder&rev=40 is the ImageMagick package from upstream. | 18:30 |
| gpd | yup - i used vanilla lighttpd-1.4.13.tgz and all good | 18:30 |
| dottedmag | btw, is there effort to create single repository of maemo packages? analogous to, e.g., ubuntu universe? | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | gpd: Only "url" should be necessary for lighttpd from the look of it. | 18:31 |
| Jaffa | dottedmag: yes - http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ExtrasRepository | 18:31 |
| gpd | lighttpd is very well regarded and would be a boon on the 77/800 imho | 18:31 |
| Jaffa | gpd: though you might want to specify other stuff. | 18:31 |
| gpd | did you see that i got php running yesterday? | 18:31 |
| dottedmag | Jaffa: well, then how it is related to mud-builder? | 18:32 |
| Disconnect | gpd: hey cool | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | gpd: Briefly, but I was trying to spend time with the littl 'un. | 18:32 |
| gpd | it was working with thttpd and basic php and sqlite tests performed well | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | dottedmag: mud-builder's designed for the kind of thing gpd's doing: take upstream sources (either Debian or tarballs atm), compile them for Maemo, apply any specific patches and build Maemo compliant debs (e.g. "user/" prefixes on Section, XB-Maemo-Icon etc.) and then handle the uploading of the package to extras. | 18:33 |
| dottedmag | Jaffa: so, they are like buildd and unstable. ok. | 18:34 |
| dottedmag | Jaffa: Debian ones, I meant. | 18:34 |
| keesj | dottedmag, it also makes it possible for others to reproduce a build or be responsible of a certain target | 18:34 |
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| Jaffa | i.e. gpd could provide a lighttpd.xml (and possibly .patch) and I/the MUD team would worry about uploading them. | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | dottedmag: exactly. But lighter weight and designed for a system where the source debs might not be compatible with the system in which you're running. | 18:40 |
| dottedmag | nice | 18:41 |
| dottedmag | what about encouraging different developers to use extras? Everyone who makes Debian packages likes to put them in Unstable, while I don't see too much in extras. | 18:42 |
| dottedmag | As little as several lines of text on the pages related to package-building and available software would help greatly. | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | dottedmag: I agree. Grab Ferenc next time he's about. | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | (or send a mail to maemo-dev, I suppose ;-)) | 18:44 |
| dottedmag | ok | 18:44 |
| * Jaffa 's idea behind mud is that people spend too long packaging (boring) and too long recompiling upstream stuff for simple ports like lighttpd, rsync etc., when our time as developers would be much better spent on either new Maemo stuff using those tools or Maemo-customisations to those packages. | 18:45 | |
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| c0ffee | i should write an exploit for your mud :) | 18:46 |
| c0ffee | and keep it secret until it's deployed on some maemo.org box | 18:46 |
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| Jaffa | Patches are welcome. They *will* be reviewed ;-) | 18:48 |
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| Tak | void c0ffee_backd00r(){ //They'll never notice me } | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | nah, not subtle enough | 18:52 |
| Jaffa | The C might break the Perl interpreter a bit, but that otherwise looks fine... applied to svn | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | void not_a_backdor_at_all() {...} | 18:52 |
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| osfameron | perl! | 18:53 |
| osfameron | how does perl work on N800? | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | Very well thank you. (Although mud runs in Scratchbox) | 18:53 |
| * osfameron googles scratchbox | 18:53 | |
| Jaffa | apt/dpkg rely on Perl, after all (unless Maemo 3's using busybox's non-Perl reimplementation) | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | osfameron: the container for the Maemo environment on a desktop PC (think SDK) | 18:54 |
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| osfameron | ah, cool | 18:54 |
| AndyCap | Stupid question perhaps, but is it worth the extra money to use High-speed SD cards in the N800, or should one just buy cheap slow ones since the speed will be the same anyway?. | 18:55 |
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| mgedmin | apt/dpkg rely on Perl??? | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | no they don't | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | you must have mixed them up with debconf | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: indeed, sorry. | 18:59 |
| * Jaffa has a headache and is trying to concentrate on at least one too many things | 18:59 | |
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| keesj | one must love ruby (my paste-it client) http://paste-it.net/970 | 19:06 |
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| osfameron | or concise scripting languaes in general | 19:10 |
| sp3000 | and mangled comments | 19:11 |
| keesj | :) | 19:12 |
| ntrs_ | Ok, I changed the png image files but the initial nokia logo splash screen still shows up. Which file needs to be replaced to change that nokia logo splash screen? | 19:12 |
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| trenka | ntrs_: it is impossible | 19:24 |
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| ntrs_ | I see, ok. | 19:25 |
| Tak | embedded in the firmware? | 19:25 |
| trenka | in bootloader | 19:25 |
| c0ffee | well | 19:26 |
| c0ffee | patching nolo shouldn't be impossible :) | 19:26 |
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| trenka | c0ffee: well, untill it has secure chip of course | 19:26 |
| c0ffee | couldn't i just patch nolo in a fiasco image and flash it? | 19:27 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: yes, and then not boot | 19:27 |
| trenka | c0ffee: yes, you can | 19:28 |
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| c0ffee | but nolo contains a checksum then | 19:28 |
| c0ffee | that's bad :( | 19:28 |
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| trenka | you can patch it too | 19:28 |
| c0ffee | and it still wouldn't boot? | 19:28 |
| lle2 | the thing is signed, dunno if you could persuade nokia to sign it for your :) | 19:29 |
| c0ffee | a signed boot loader on an opensource platform with an unencrypted firmware image? | 19:30 |
| c0ffee | what's that supposed to help | 19:30 |
| lle2 | the hw checks it | 19:30 |
| dottedmag | damn trusted computing :-/ | 19:30 |
| c0ffee | hum | 19:31 |
| c0ffee | my play-omap here doesn't do that | 19:31 |
| lle2 | yeah | 19:31 |
| lle2 | different chip | 19:31 |
| c0ffee | i wonder whether it's signed | 19:31 |
| seebs | Hmm. | 19:32 |
| c0ffee | or it's a lets-hope-nobody-realy-tries-signature | 19:32 |
| seebs | I am trying to manually build a package, rather than setting up the entire dpkg infrastructure for it. However, I cannot seem to create a valid control file. | 19:32 |
| seebs | Oh, I see. I was copying a source control file, not a modified output from dpkg. | 19:33 |
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| lle2 | c0ffee: it's a good question if it makes any sense at all, but the hw is like that, it needs to check it, not our choice really | 19:35 |
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| c0ffee | the flasher could auto-sign the bootloader | 19:38 |
| c0ffee | that would be middle course | 19:38 |
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| kender | hi | 19:39 |
| dottedmag | lle2: is checksum hardcoded in hw? | 19:39 |
| aCiDBaSe | New Python for Maemo: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/pymaemo25_releasenotes.html | 19:39 |
| kender | now, I'm N800 owner too :) | 19:39 |
| lle2 | dottedmag: no | 19:39 |
| lle2 | but I think I'll simply shut up before some men in black show up | 19:40 |
| *** aCiDBaSe changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Search: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh | Ne" | 19:41 | |
| *** aCiDBaSe changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Search: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh" | 19:41 | |
| * dottedmag withdraws the 'trusted computing' label :) | 19:41 | |
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| c0ffee | i wonder why blogs are always only using 6.5% of the available screen width | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | your monitor is too big? | 19:43 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: there's normally so little content it would look stupid otherwise | 19:44 |
| c0ffee | fair enough :) | 19:44 |
| whegge | Does anyone know how to tell what terminal emulation that openssh is using on the 770? | 19:44 |
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| dottedmag | whegge: well. ssh client uses terminal it started in. | 19:45 |
| seebs | echo $TERM? | 19:45 |
| lle2 | trenka: can't priv msg, not registered | 19:46 |
| whegge | dottedmag: using the x terminal for the 770, echo $TERM returns xterm | 19:46 |
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| dottedmag | whegge: and? ssh itself do not care about terminals. | 19:48 |
| whegge | what I need to do is verify or set that it is using a VT100 terminal emultaion | 19:48 |
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| whegge | I am having problems ssh'n in to my routers. They use ncurses for the menu system. When I use the 770 I cannot navigate the menus. | 19:49 |
| c0ffee | hum | 19:49 |
| c0ffee | the flames on m-d continue | 19:49 |
| dottedmag | whegge: check from xterm from *nix box. If it works, then it's some bug in osso-xterm. | 19:50 |
| mgedmin | afaik osso-xterm uses the same libvte that gnome-terminal uses | 19:50 |
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| Tak | indeed | 19:51 |
| whegge | must be a bug in osso-term then. It works from my fedora core box at work. | 19:51 |
| c0ffee | and we all know that gnome-terminal is a pain | 19:52 |
| whegge | well, I will check with osso-term support. Thanks for your help. Once I get this working I will let you know how. Thanks again. | 19:53 |
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| whegge | Got it. Used the osso-term advanced version. Menu navigation works fine now. | 20:03 |
| nwk | from mh? | 20:04 |
| whegge | yep | 20:04 |
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| nwk | how it works with <delete>? | 20:06 |
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| whegge | what do u mean, <delete>? | 20:07 |
| nwk | remove last character | 20:08 |
| whegge | checking | 20:08 |
| whegge | how are u attempting to do this? In vim? Command line? What key are you pressing? | 20:09 |
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| nwk | xterm. upper right angle with arrow to the left | 20:10 |
| whegge | If I am understanding. The backspace key is working fine. | 20:11 |
| nwk | I have clasic xterm and stupid spaces | 20:12 |
| nwk | thx | 20:12 |
| whegge | aahhh, yes I remember seeing that too. No, that does not happen with this xterm | 20:13 |
| nwk | have you desinstalled old one? | 20:14 |
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| whegge | yes. Did that first then put osso-xterm advanced in from the repository. | 20:14 |
| whegge | did not have to remove ssh or anything else. | 20:15 |
| nwk | any dependencies? | 20:15 |
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| whegge | nope. | 20:17 |
| nwk | huh! what repository? maemo-hackers? | 20:17 |
| nwk | I have scirocco | 20:18 |
| whegge | so do I | 20:18 |
| nwk | apt-get? | 20:18 |
| whegge | nope. Just use the Application Tool | 20:19 |
| nwk | don't have it. | 20:19 |
| nwk | should to add rep. | 20:19 |
| jtra | cool, that load-applet-run can run and save entry for 'matchbox-remote -next' which can switch application without icon | 20:19 |
| nwk | just what? | 20:20 |
| whegge | nwk:menu->tools->application manager you do not have that? | 20:20 |
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| nwk | yes,have it, but no term adv | 20:21 |
| nwk | sources.list? | 20:21 |
| whegge | nwk:select title from top of application manageer window. Then Tools->Application Catalogue | 20:22 |
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| nwk | just tableteer and rep.maemo | 20:24 |
| whegge | nwk: Then 'New'. For 'Web Address' put http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/', leave 'Distribution' alone, 'Component' put main, then click 'ok', then 'close' | 20:24 |
| whegge | nwk: It will ask you if you wish to update catalogue say yes. | 20:25 |
| tko | why not upload to extras repo and save the users the trouble of configuring yet-another-new-repository ? | 20:26 |
| whegge | Do not know. Just following the instructions in then wiki. | 20:26 |
| whegge | then = the | 20:26 |
| nwk | thx wegge. goig' to do that. bbl ;-) | 20:27 |
| nwk | alone=none? | 20:28 |
| whegge | no alone = alone...do no touch what is there it is good. | 20:29 |
| nwk | mistral | 20:30 |
| whegge | yep | 20:30 |
| nwk | ok. bye. | 20:30 |
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| dottedmag | Anyone experiencing lags on repository.maemo.org? It answers to HTTP request after 10 seconds (file serves approx. 1mb/sec, so this is not my slow connection) | 20:31 |
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| whegge | not as of 20 mintues ago. Just added VNC. | 20:41 |
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| kender | I have installed osso-xterm and no space bottom appears in the virtual keyboard, how can I solve this? | 20:56 |
| kender | mm.. | 20:57 |
| Guardian | re | 20:57 |
| kender | I have unselected the "Reverse Colors" and now It works | 20:58 |
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| trenka | is it possible to buy in Finland adapter for UK plug -> finnish socket | 21:02 |
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| ||cw | why wouldn't it be | 21:03 |
| ||cw | int eh us you can buy adaptors from anything to anything, people travel and vendors know it | 21:04 |
| daniels | trenka: yes, very easy at the airport, somewhat easy at the train station. else you lose and have to get one from stockmann which is €35. | 21:05 |
| part | trenka: it is, I have several, although they've been bought from airports around europe | 21:05 |
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| trenka | daniels: Ah, cool! I checked stores near work today and could found only fin->UK. Thanks for point | 21:08 |
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| |tbb| | whi all | 22:04 |
| |tbb| | where can i met the makers of maemo-hackers | 22:05 |
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| inz | |tbb|, here | 22:08 |
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| |tbb| | inz got a nickname? | 22:11 |
| inz | |tbb|, yes, inz | 22:12 |
| |tbb| | hehe | 22:12 |
| inz | What of maemo-hackers it is that you want to ask? | 22:12 |
| |tbb| | k, i need to get macchanger running on my brand new n800 | 22:12 |
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| inz | and? | 22:13 |
| |tbb| | that one which run on n770 doesnt work on the n800 :( | 22:14 |
| inz | |tbb|, the 770 version is not from maemo-hackers repository... | 22:15 |
| inz | |tbb|, but now there is one in bora repository, no guarantees that it will work | 22:17 |
| inz | |tbb|, and it's not application manager installable, use apt-get from command line | 22:17 |
| |tbb| | i will look at it | 22:17 |
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| |tbb| | first to get root access :) | 22:18 |
| gpd | http://www.plime.com/technology/l/8014/1/ <-- multitouch on crack | 22:18 |
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| |tbb| | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot | 22:39 |
| |tbb| | seems to be down at the moment any other ressource 4 me? | 22:40 |
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| ||cw | |tbb|: for IT2006, there's a package you can install that will do it for you | 22:42 |
| ||cw | though that's probably on maemo.org too | 22:42 |
| pikanapsu | i cant connect to www.maemo.org | 22:42 |
| pikanapsu | shoud the maemo 2.1 installer work fine with debian etch? | 22:45 |
| X-Fade | pikanapsu: Yeah maemo.org looks pretty dead.. | 22:45 |
| pikanapsu | and scratchbox.org too | 22:46 |
| |tbb| | inz u there? | 22:46 |
| |tbb| | where to get the package for bora? | 22:46 |
| tzz | Google cache: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:rh6I4TdYR5EJ:https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot+maemo+become+root&hl=en&lr=&strip=1 | 22:48 |
| |tbb| | is it that? http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/pool/main/m/macchanger/macchanger_1.5.0-1_armel.deb | 22:49 |
| tzz | maemo.org is back for me btw | 22:49 |
| Disconnect | ||cw: becomeroot works on 2007 also fyi | 22:50 |
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| pikanapsu | tzz, yep. | 22:51 |
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| tzz | |tbb|: becomeroot: http://eko.one.pl/index.php?page=Nokia770_software#becomeroot | 22:54 |
| |tbb| | got it thx | 22:57 |
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| |tbb| | waiting for inz answer | 22:57 |
| |tbb| | the n8 is very fast | 22:58 |
| |tbb| | in any way but video | 22:58 |
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| kender | hey | 23:02 |
| kender | My new N800, when I started it, Nokia logo appears, but then the screen switch off and Nokia logo appears again | 23:03 |
| kender | doesn't start | 23:03 |
| kender | what's happening? | 23:03 |
| kender | is bricked? | 23:03 |
| kender | what can I do? | 23:03 |
| kender | flashing it maybe? | 23:03 |
| kender | I have tried with battery only | 23:03 |
| trenka | kender: enable serial-console | 23:03 |
| kender | with AC | 23:03 |
| kender | trenka, how? | 23:04 |
| trenka | kender: flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console | 23:06 |
| keesj | kender, what a terrific start of your N800 experience | 23:07 |
| kender | keesj, yes :SSS | 23:07 |
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| kender | kender@Cosmos:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console | 23:08 |
| kender | flasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006) | 23:08 |
| kender | Suitable USB device not found, waiting | 23:08 |
| kender | USB device found found at bus 005, device address 014 | 23:08 |
| kender | Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted | 23:08 |
| kender | kender@Cosmos:~/Desktop$ | 23:08 |
| kender | :S | 23:08 |
| Pio | be root | 23:08 |
| kender | hehe | 23:09 |
| kender | sorry | 23:09 |
| kender | :S | 23:09 |
| kender | root@Cosmos:/home/kender/Desktop# ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=serial-console | 23:09 |
| kender | flasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006) | 23:09 |
| kender | Suitable USB device not found, waiting | 23:09 |
| kender | USB device found found at bus 005, device address 021 | 23:09 |
| kender | Found device RX-34, hardware revision 1301 | 23:09 |
| kender | NOLO version 1.1.3 | 23:09 |
| kender | Version of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_MR0 | 23:09 |
| kender | Set R&D flags: 0010 | 23:09 |
| kender | now? | 23:09 |
| trenka | cool, remove usb cable | 23:09 |
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| kender | ok | 23:10 |
| kender | done | 23:10 |
| kender | oh, I see | 23:10 |
| kender | some letters | 23:10 |
| kender | mm.. | 23:10 |
| trenka | kender: do not flood please | 23:10 |
| kender | what do you want to know? | 23:11 |
| kender | there appears info, about kernel | 23:12 |
| kender | initfs version | 23:12 |
| kender | Component versions | 23:12 |
| trenka | It should boot | 23:12 |
| kender | should... | 23:12 |
| kender | :S | 23:12 |
| kender | I have it with AC | 23:12 |
| kender | maybe that? | 23:12 |
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| trenka | it shows charging ? | 23:13 |
| kender | no | 23:13 |
| kender | well | 23:13 |
| kender | I plug it | 23:13 |
| kender | the battery icon appears | 23:13 |
| kender | but then, the screen halts | 23:14 |
| kender | and Nokia logo appears again | 23:14 |
| kender | :S | 23:14 |
| myren | what the holy fuck | 23:14 |
| myren | use longer sentances kender. | 23:15 |
| kender | mm.. | 23:15 |
| kender | myren, sorry, my english is bad but I will try | 23:15 |
| kender | what else do you want to know? | 23:15 |
| myren | i'm just complaining because in the past 12 minutes, you've typed 60 lines or so | 23:16 |
| ferulo | damm, someone ported gconf-editor to maemo :) | 23:16 |
| kender | myren, sorry :S | 23:16 |
| myren | kender: if its any condolence, i'm sorry your N800 is being problematic | 23:16 |
| kender | :SS | 23:17 |
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| kender | myren, what is the next step? I ordered it through internet, is the first time, I'm from Spain, what is done in this cases? | 23:18 |
| kender | trenka, ? | 23:18 |
| kender | any idea? | 23:18 |
| trenka | I would like to get such problematic device | 23:18 |
| kender | trenka, you would like? | 23:18 |
| kender | sorry? | 23:18 |
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| keesj | I would walk to a nokia shop and see if they know what device that is | 23:19 |
| trenka | kender: enabling/disabling serial-console helped for some such cases. May be you have another case, I have not seen such device yet | 23:20 |
| kender | trenka, but, I can't reflash it? what's happening? explain me please | 23:20 |
| kender | :S | 23:20 |
| trenka | kender: I do not know what's happening, I have not seen such device. Can try flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 23:21 |
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| suihkulokki | maybe it's too empty battery? | 23:22 |
| suihkulokki | some people had similar problems here earlier, dunno if they got it solved or not | 23:22 |
| kender | suihkulokki, I have it with ac | 23:22 |
| kender | :S | 23:22 |
| trenka | kender: is it charging ? | 23:23 |
| kender | one second | 23:23 |
| kender | nothing happens | 23:23 |
| kender | but | 23:23 |
| suihkulokki | kender: you still might have to wait some time before the battery has enough power to boot | 23:23 |
| pikanapsu | can i develop software with maemo2.1 and simply install it on every N770 or should the N770 be updated somehow? | 23:23 |
| kender | root@Cosmos:/home/kender/Desktop# ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 23:23 |
| kender | flasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006) | 23:23 |
| kender | USB device found found at bus 005, device address 023 | 23:23 |
| kender | suihkulokki, yes, have been charging it all the day | 23:23 |
| trenka | kender: please, find http://pastebin.com or like that | 23:23 |
| kender | trenka, sorry again | 23:24 |
| |tbb| | inz: macchanger works on the n800 thx | 23:25 |
| keesj | pikanapsu, I think it depends , the changes between the releases is documented on the site. | 23:25 |
| kender | trenka, well | 23:25 |
| |tbb| | someone have seen the magnets from the soon available case for the n8? | 23:25 |
| keesj | but between 2005 ant 2006 I don't think it's binary compatible ( check it on the website don't believe me) | 23:26 |
| kender | now, in the screen only appears the nokia logo, and those booting characters, but nothing else; the screen doesn't restart | 23:26 |
| kender | better? worse? | 23:26 |
| pikanapsu | is there different 2006 releases? | 23:26 |
| keesj | yes | 23:26 |
| pikanapsu | :< | 23:26 |
| trenka | kender: try to wait | 23:26 |
| kender | ok | 23:27 |
| keesj | I THINK 2.0 and 2.1 are both "2006" | 23:27 |
| pahartik | pikanapsu: Maemo 2.0 and Maemo 2.1 | 23:27 |
| kender | If I plugged the charger, nothing happens, no icon appers | 23:27 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: they should be compartible | 23:28 |
| trenka | compatible, even | 23:28 |
| pikanapsu | is there simple way to know witch 2006 ii do have? | 23:28 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: "about" on device ? | 23:28 |
| pikanapsu | ok | 23:28 |
| trenka | kender: so, you do not have any cable plugged in device, press power button, it shows logo | 23:29 |
| kender | yes trenka | 23:29 |
| trenka | kender: nothing happens for 5 minutes ? | 23:29 |
| kender | trenka, now I have tested | 23:29 |
| kender | quitting the battery | 23:29 |
| kender | putting on again | 23:29 |
| kender | and plug in the charger, the logo appears, then the icon of the battery and the screen went white | 23:30 |
| Milhouse | got any cards in the slots? try removing them and reboot? | 23:30 |
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| kender | Milhouse, I have tried, but I'll try again | 23:31 |
| trenka | kender: do not plug charger please | 23:31 |
| kender | ok | 23:31 |
| kender | Milhouse, everything without memories | 23:32 |
| trenka | but if you could not charge the battery before, it's empty now :( | 23:32 |
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| kender | trenka, ? | 23:32 |
| kender | the battery is not empty, the device powers when I press the button | 23:33 |
| trenka | kender: and then ? | 23:33 |
| kender | Nokia logo appears, and nothing else happens | 23:33 |
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| kender | with ac, things seems to change | 23:34 |
| maddler | hi all | 23:34 |
| kender | trenka, next step? | 23:34 |
| trenka | kender: I can propose you to visit my sauna this weekend :) | 23:34 |
| kender | hehe | 23:35 |
| kender | trenka, are you from here? | 23:35 |
| trenka | Now? Espoo, Finland | 23:35 |
| kender | I mean, Spain | 23:35 |
| kender | trenka, so, I find that difficult | 23:36 |
| trenka | the best for you now is flasher-3.0 --disable-rd-mode and ask nokia center I afraid | 23:36 |
| trenka | you can reflash it of course, but I do not know if it helps | 23:37 |
| kender | I haven't put rd-mode enabled | 23:37 |
| trenka | you have :) | 23:37 |
| kender | oh | 23:37 |
| kender | hehe | 23:37 |
| kender | trenka, the device is new, I openned it today | 23:37 |
| trenka | I'm so sorry | 23:38 |
| kender | trenka, If I try flashing, I'll loss something? | 23:38 |
| kender | garranty? | 23:38 |
| kender | *guarranty | 23:39 |
| trenka | I do not know, check the papers | 23:39 |
| kender | nobody knows? | 23:39 |
| kender | somebody* | 23:39 |
| Veggen | kender: no, reflashing is supported. | 23:40 |
| kender | ok | 23:40 |
| Veggen | I'm quite sure :) | 23:40 |
| kender | how can I flash it? | 23:42 |
| trenka | flasher-3.0 -f -F <fiasco> | 23:44 |
| Veggen | you need to download the image, of course. | 23:44 |
| kender | yeah | 23:44 |
| trenka | kender: what nolo version it reports? | 23:45 |
| kender | 2.2006.51-6 | 23:45 |
| trenka | NOLO version 1.1.3 | 23:46 |
| kender | oh | 23:46 |
| pikanapsu | what is rootstrap? | 23:46 |
| kender | yes | 23:46 |
| pikanapsu | is toolchain rootstrap? | 23:46 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: no, it contains some kind of a root file system | 23:47 |
| |tbb| | where do i get an overview of running applications on n800? | 23:47 |
| Veggen | do people normally add the mistral repositories to the N800 device? I see a lot of applications have dependencies from there.... | 23:47 |
| Veggen | or is it risky? | 23:47 |
| pikanapsu | from maemo 2.1 install documentation "Double-check the packages you are extracting. Rootstraps must not be extracted to the / directory, only the Scratchbox packages." | 23:47 |
| trenka | suihkulokki: seems I have an idea, but I do not have HW to test it | 23:47 |
| pikanapsu | what is rootstrap package? | 23:48 |
| |tbb| | anyone else got the problem that google connects and disconnects to the gtalk thing? | 23:48 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: rootstraps should be extracted from inside of scratchbox | 23:48 |
| pikanapsu | name one rootsrap | 23:49 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: scratchbox itself should be extracted to your machine's / | 23:49 |
| pikanapsu | yeah.. that i have done.. but i cannot login.. :( | 23:49 |
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| pikanapsu | it tells im already log in 9 times | 23:49 |
| trenka | pikanapsu: Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.1_armel-rootstrap.tgz | 23:49 |
| pikanapsu | http://mureakuha.com/paste/?625e7521b0f27e8eb322db858198112b | 23:50 |
| pikanapsu | ho do i logout from those 9 things.. | 23:51 |
| pikanapsu | how.. | 23:51 |
| trenka | scratchbox had problems with linux >= 2.6.18 afaik | 23:51 |
| pikanapsu | fun | 23:51 |
| pikanapsu | argh | 23:51 |
| kender | trenka, Bootloader error log follows: | 23:51 |
| kender | Error reading spare of block 139, page 0 | 23:51 |
| kender | Error reading spare of block 139, page 0 | 23:51 |
| kender | EP0 in RX state, but no incoming packet | 23:51 |
| kender | Premature end of control transfer | 23:51 |
| kender | does that tell you something? | 23:52 |
| trenka | kender: yes, it told me something | 23:52 |
| trenka | kender: I guess where the problem is, but I cannot help you right now | 23:53 |
| kender | trenka, have it solution? what can I do? | 23:53 |
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| kender | my god | 23:54 |
| kender | trenka, !!! | 23:54 |
| kender | I'm very happy | 23:55 |
| kender | very very happy | 23:55 |
| kender | the device have booted !! | 23:55 |
| trenka | kender: congratulations | 23:55 |
| kender | trenka, thank you! thank you very much! | 23:55 |
| kender | hehe | 23:55 |
| trenka | do not flood please | 23:55 |
| kender | trenka, ok, only a question, what were you thinking about? do you think that the device may be broken or only a bad reboot that corrupted the boot partition? | 23:57 |
| trenka | kender: I afraid, I cannot share this information | 23:58 |
| pikanapsu | maybe somebody should update the 2.1 manual and add warning for 2.6.18 kernel ? | 23:58 |
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