| tigert | search for "Single click install" | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| seebs | Ahh! | 00:00 |
| seebs | This thing has really matured quite impressively. | 00:00 |
| seebs | A friend of mine got one, it was the last one at the CompUSA by his house, and they hadn't even put them out on counters yet. Heh. | 00:00 |
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| tigert | :) | 00:01 |
| tigert | so you can even try to make one on your own server | 00:01 |
| tigert | then give it to inz to put it on the app catalog | 00:01 |
| memnoc | thanks, I tested on the internal slot | 00:01 |
| tigert | or just put these as links to the app catalog | 00:01 |
| tigert | the new app catalog supports these anyway | 00:01 |
| guerby | memnoc, you're welcome | 00:02 |
| memnoc | all the N800 needs now is a slingbox client ;) | 00:04 |
| tigert | ok. sleep time. | 00:04 |
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| ntrs | I need minicom on n800 :) | 00:14 |
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| memnoc | on the 800, do you still need to put it into r&d mode to gain root? | 00:24 |
| seebs | Yes. | 00:25 |
| seebs | Which is, as I recall, a change from 2006's behavior on the 770. | 00:25 |
| seebs | I seem to recall being able to get root without R&D mode on my 770 last I tried. | 00:26 |
| memnoc | on the 770 you could just put dropbear on there right? | 00:26 |
| seebs | Yup. And actually, I think the same thing works with ssh on the n800. Since I was already in R&D mode, though, I used a root shell to install ssh. | 00:27 |
| memnoc | so the same dropbear binaries will work on the 800? | 00:28 |
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| memnoc | hrm, I'm on a win laptop, wonder if the linux flashwe will work on linux under vmware | 00:28 |
| seebs | I don't know about dropbear. I haven't got it handy. | 00:29 |
| guerby | memnoc, I got root without enabling R&D mode on my N800, just install ssh (as described on the works on IT2007 page) and do ssh root@localhost (default password) | 00:30 |
| memnoc | thanks | 00:31 |
| memnoc | so that's ossh right? | 00:31 |
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| Jaffa | koen: true, you can't expect these things to happen overnight. | 00:32 |
| koen | heh | 00:32 |
| guerby | memnoc, yes, I used dropbear on N770, but on N800 since ssh is in std repo I didn't bother | 00:32 |
| memnoc | hrm, I don't see it in the repo | 00:33 |
| guerby | memnoc, did you follow the instructions (enable red pill mode) | 00:33 |
| guerby | ? | 00:33 |
| memnoc | oh, I did not, sorry, I added 2 repos in the application manager | 00:33 |
| memnoc | maemo repo and maemo hackers | 00:34 |
| guerby | # | 00:34 |
| guerby | Application ssh | 00:34 |
| guerby | * | 00:34 |
| guerby | Status: Works. | 00:34 |
| guerby | * | 00:34 |
| guerby | How to install: Add same repo as for X Termina, then activate red pill, update list and then choose ssh from the list | 00:34 |
| guerby | memnoc, worked for me at least :) | 00:34 |
| memnoc | ok having problems finding the link to what apps work in IT2007 I know I saw it on the site earlier | 00:35 |
| guerby | memnoc, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 00:35 |
| memnoc | thanks | 00:36 |
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| * cesman is disapointed the media streamer won't play mpeg2 | 00:39 | |
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| memnoc | should I activate the red pill before adding any repos? | 00:39 |
| memnoc | nm | 00:40 |
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| guerby | memnoc, should be indifferent. Did it work for you? | 00:46 |
| memnoc | it did work | 00:48 |
| memnoc | all's good | 00:49 |
| memnoc | have root | 00:49 |
| guerby | memnoc, I use ssh-keygen -t rsa to create a key for user to root | 00:49 |
| guerby | s/use/used | 00:50 |
| memnoc | ah, didn't edit gainroot? | 00:50 |
| guerby | memnoc, could do too | 00:50 |
| memnoc | actually probably locking the user and using ssh keys is probably the most secure | 00:50 |
| guerby | memnoc, I usually ssh root@n800 from my desktop so I don't do much user to root in real life | 00:51 |
| guerby | I changed the password | 00:51 |
| guerby | sudo gainroot might be useful for X applications (I'm not a specialist) | 00:51 |
| guerby | I just enabled it just in case... | 00:55 |
| memnoc | using an ssh key is probably the best idea | 00:55 |
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| memnoc | btw, you use google talk with your 800 yet? | 00:56 |
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| dwd | Evening, all. | 00:57 |
| guerby | memnoc, no, I have not made a call with it yet (I have an account I believe) want to try? | 00:57 |
| memnoc | actually, I can't get my existing account to auth which is why I was asking | 01:00 |
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| guerby | memnoc, hmm I don't remember what I did, but I don't remember having anything refused (I did not try a call though) | 01:01 |
| memnoc | yeah i can't set my status as online | 01:03 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: Ah, you're online. I justt sent you an email asking for netsurf | 01:04 |
| guerby | memnoc, seems to work for me (laurent.guerby at gmail.com) | 01:05 |
| memnoc | 89 | 01:05 |
| Jaffa | dwd: just about to bed. Armel or x86 target? | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | I'll tar up the build + source and send it to you | 01:06 |
| dwd | Armel. No hurry, though | 01:07 |
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| dwd | On GPRS, so I won't do anything until tomorrow. | 01:07 |
| Jaffa | dwd: want the source, or just the executable? | 01:07 |
| dwd | Source might be fun, too. | 01:08 |
| Jaffa | okie-dokie | 01:08 |
| dwd | But the exec would be most important | 01:08 |
| dwd | Thanks. | 01:09 |
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| guerby | gn all | 01:12 |
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| * Jaffa beds | 01:50 | |
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| Ayoze | hi all | 01:55 |
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| obra | http://www.nokiausa.com/accessories/item_details/1,8994,product:CA-44|phone_code:N800,00.html | 02:04 |
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| obra | Huh. I guess I have some hope of getting a USB charging solution for my N800 after all | 02:05 |
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| thoughtfix | Helloooooooooooo | 02:05 |
| obra | 'evening | 02:05 |
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| thoughtfix | Are we having fun yet? | 02:07 |
| * Jaffa should be in bed. | 02:09 | |
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| gpd | did i dream it - or did i see a hard case for N800? | 02:47 |
| gpd | http://europe.nokia.com/A4156071 -- europe atm | 02:50 |
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| nomis | indeed. | 02:55 |
| gpd | after my shopping tour today with full wifi and uber screen -- i forcee the end of shopping as we know it -- if everyone has google at their fingertips when in stores - they'll never buy anything in the real world again... :) | 02:57 |
| gpd | they'll just browse -- then click 'order' on the tablet -- and leave! | 02:58 |
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| qos | hey guys | 03:03 |
| gpd | hello | 03:03 |
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| qos | does somebody know why i get "W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org mistral Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 5FD45CD3EA68E29D" errors while updating my packages? | 03:04 |
| gpd | yes - you haven't added the key for that repository. | 03:05 |
| qos | but where to get it? | 03:05 |
| gpd | i'm not sure where you would find it however | 03:05 |
| qos | and it was fine for a while ... | 03:05 |
| qos | the problem is new .. | 03:05 |
| gpd | actually -- hackers might be inz department | 03:05 |
| gpd | in which case he told me the other day - let me check | 03:06 |
| gpd | http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/GpgKey | 03:06 |
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| qos | thx a lot ... | 03:07 |
| gpd | np | 03:07 |
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| qos | does anyone here uses "dates"? | 03:13 |
| gpd | not yet - i am using GPE Calendar so far | 03:14 |
| gpd | but people do use it | 03:14 |
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| qos | because i cant install it. apt says that it cannot open /etc/ld.so.config | 03:15 |
| qos | i checked it ... and the file does not exists | 03:15 |
| qos | googled a bit for it and found out that u can create it via ldconfig on regular linux distributions | 03:16 |
| gpd | where did you get the .deb? | 03:16 |
| qos | from the official responsitory | 03:17 |
| gpd | and are you trying to install a mistral .deb on an N800? | 03:17 |
| qos | i just have a 770 :) | 03:17 |
| gpd | well -- i have /etc/ld.so.conf -- not config? | 03:18 |
| qos | i dont have it ... | 03:18 |
| gpd | just make it -- | 03:19 |
| qos | didnt changed anything | 03:19 |
| gpd | empty file should be enough | 03:19 |
| qos | so ... wait a moment | 03:19 |
| gpd | the only thing I have in my ld.so.conf is /usr/X11R6/lib | 03:19 |
| nomis | "ldconfig" does not create /etc/ld.so.conf | 03:19 |
| nomis | it creates ld.so.cache IIRC | 03:20 |
| nomis | (and it reads .conf as config-file) | 03:20 |
| gpd | anyone been getting 'cannot connect to one or more accounts' from the google chat thingy recently? i am online my status is on - but i have flashing red/green button | 03:22 |
| gpd | only started happening today | 03:23 |
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| qos | is it necessary to run "apt-get upgrade" from time to time? or should this never be done? | 03:26 |
| gpd | no - that is quite dangerous it seems | 03:26 |
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| qos | so, i have never done this ... and i wont try | 03:27 |
| qos | i always try to install dates 0.2x ... and it says that the process was successful but it is this dates 0.1x running on my device. | 03:30 |
| qos | can i completely remove all packages and dependencies concerning dates? | 03:31 |
| gpd | you can run dpkg --purge dates | 03:33 |
| gpd | any reason why you are not using GPE? | 03:33 |
| qos | whats about this error? "/bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found | 03:33 |
| qos | " | 03:33 |
| gpd | i haven't used dates - so just curious | 03:33 |
| gpd | are you sure you have the right .deb? | 03:34 |
| qos | i like dates ... and there are all my dates in it :) | 03:34 |
| gpd | i don't have /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure on my box | 03:34 |
| cesman | pre or re? | 03:35 |
| qos | pre | 03:35 |
| cesman | didn't know there was a pre :) | 03:35 |
| gpd | [turns out the reason for my chat issues was /etc/resolv.conf = 127.0.0.1 :( | 03:35 |
| qos | :) | 03:36 |
| gpd | but not sure why - as it was served by my home router... | 03:37 |
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| cesman | gpd: you live in Los Angeles? | 04:12 |
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| gpd | cesman: yes - why? | 04:28 |
| cesman | going to be at SCALE? | 04:30 |
| cesman | I'll have my n800 there at the KnoppMyth booth | 04:30 |
| cesman | http://socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/ | 04:31 |
| cesman | I have it streaming music and images from my mythtv backend, however no mpeg2 video | 04:31 |
| cesman | I can get mythstreamtv working however the playback isn't very good | 04:32 |
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| memnoc | anyone streaming stations from rahapsody? | 05:09 |
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| memnoc | anyone try google talk with sip? | 07:26 |
| bergie | memnoc: maybe this helps? http://www.gtalk2voip.com/ | 07:30 |
| bergie | haven't tried it though | 07:30 |
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| memnoc | bergie I did, called gets terminated immediately | 08:25 |
| bergie | ok | 08:31 |
| memnoc | tried a SIP connection to a gizmoproject user | 08:31 |
| memnoc | also wondering if the Nokia Internet Chat beta is live yet, when I start going through the setup I get to where it wants to connecto outbound and it returns an error | 08:33 |
| guerby | memnoc, did you manage to set up your gtalk account? | 08:36 |
| memnoc | yep | 08:36 |
| memnoc | no idea what it was, definately getting some weird behavior with the whole Internet Call/google talk thing | 08:38 |
| guerby | memnoc, interesting. not tried a call yet | 08:40 |
| memnoc | i did a gtalk - gtalk call ok | 08:41 |
| guerby | memnoc, with video? | 08:41 |
| memnoc | google's implementation of SIP is really funky so | 08:41 |
| memnoc | no | 08:41 |
| memnoc | google talk on windows doesn't have video | 08:41 |
| guerby | memnoc, want to try a call on my N800? | 08:41 |
| memnoc | sure, give me 2 minutes | 08:42 |
| guerby | memnoc, laurent.guerby at gmail.com | 08:42 |
| memnoc | added you | 08:43 |
| memnoc | are you set p to reject invites? | 08:44 |
| guerby | no I checked accept all | 08:44 |
| memnoc | i am amazza@gmail.com | 08:44 |
| guerby | trying... | 08:46 |
| guerby | did work :) | 08:47 |
| memnoc | yep | 08:48 |
| memnoc | I've just been having weird issues with adding and removing people from my contact list | 08:48 |
| memnoc | when I added you, it didn't see you, but when you added me, you showed up as laurent.GUERBY | 08:49 |
| memnoc | is google talk case sensitive? | 08:49 |
| guerby | memnoc, no idea | 08:49 |
| guerby | memnoc, my account name is "Laurent GUERBY" my email laurent.guerby | 08:51 |
| guerby | memnoc, may be the "allow all" doesn't work after all | 08:52 |
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| tigert | morning | 09:17 |
| keesj770 | Hi | 09:18 |
| tigert | you need to ask for authorization | 09:18 |
| tigert | hold the stylus on the contact and select request authorization from the menu | 09:19 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:01 |
| keesj770 | Hi Jaffa | 11:01 |
| nok | when I install dropbear, does it automatically create the RSA key? or do I have to create it? | 11:02 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:12 |
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| Guardian | morning all | 11:36 |
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| Jaffa | keesj770: mud can now do dependency tracking for tarball fetches (although it doesn't yet add them in to the debian/control file) | 11:41 |
| Guardian | https://maemo.org/bugzilla --> is it where we should report bugs ? | 11:42 |
| Guardian | or is it still non read by nokia ? | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | Against the device and core software, yes. | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | Quite a few bugs there have commentary and fixes from Nokia. | 11:42 |
| Guardian | well it's again about the input method tutorial which depends on 2 packages | 11:43 |
| Guardian | i downloaded nokia binaries | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | It's certainly the *best* place to report bugs. If they're there, there's no excuse. | 11:43 |
| Guardian | and tried to apt-get install the mentionned packages | 11:43 |
| Guardian | however, it complains about pkconfig | 11:43 |
| Guardian | which makes me hesitating entering a bug about those packages | 11:43 |
| Guardian | because it's prolly related to pkgconfig, and i think someone already mentioned a problem related to pkgconfig here | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | Why the hesitation? | 11:44 |
| Guardian | i'm not into filling in bugs without being sure there's a bug | 11:44 |
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| Jaffa | Guardian: ;-) | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | How confident are you that you installed Scratchbox correctly? | 11:44 |
| Guardian | *very* | 11:45 |
| Guardian | it just runs fine on all my targets | 11:45 |
| Guardian | i'm running apophis with herring,scirocco (compiling only) and bora | 11:45 |
| Jaffa | Guardian: If someone's mentioned it here, but not put it into Bugzilla, there's no harm (and probably lots of benefit) of putting it in Bugzilla. Wouldn't take long to check. | 11:47 |
| suihkulokki | Guardian: I've seen the pkg-config thing mentioned before, i think it a rootstrap bug. | 11:47 |
| Guardian | Jaffa: here is the output of apt-get if you want to have a look http://rafb.net/p/Ta7ltB82.html | 11:47 |
| Guardian | i guess it's a problem with pkgconfig, and of course doing apg-get install -f as suggested by the prompt just removes nearly everything :) | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | I'd agree with suihkulokki, sounds like a rootstrap bug so I'd log it in bugzilla | 11:48 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 11:53 |
| Guardian | well, pkg-config search on bugzilla yields zaroo boogs found :) | 11:55 |
| Guardian | ok gonna fill a bug for the sdk then | 11:56 |
| inz | Guardian, there was discussion about this in the m-dev list | 11:56 |
| inz | Guardian, the pkg-config gets provided by the sbox if you use the installer | 11:56 |
| inz | Guardian, I used scirocco to get pkg-config, installers be damned ;) | 11:57 |
| Guardian | i did not use the installer | 11:57 |
| Guardian | because i had several apophis targets that were already set up | 11:57 |
| Guardian | inz: indeed http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/6885/focus=6885 | 11:59 |
| Guardian | the thread does not offer a solution though | 12:00 |
| inz | true | 12:00 |
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| keesj | Jaffa, nice thing about the deps tracking for tar , I will only really have time for maemo later this week. | 12:02 |
| X-Fade | Morning. | 12:06 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Do you know what happened to test.maemo? | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | keesj: cool, hopefully it'll be even better then ;-) If you produce any packages you think should be included, feel free to send me them | 12:08 |
| inz | Guardian, you could rip the virtual package bits from the installer script | 12:08 |
| keesj | Jaffa, don't worry I will | 12:08 |
| Jaffa | keesj: cool | 12:08 |
| keesj | if building is easy I am also ready provide building for one of the os targets | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | keesj: excellent. My Scratchbox is still running scirocco as I want to test on my 770 :) | 12:10 |
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| Guardian | inz: yes i was about to try that, however i need to switch to something else atm :/ | 12:11 |
| Guardian | inz: grrr damn users that don't use the provided installer script and don't want to stick to SDK_PC and SDK_ARM targets :D | 12:12 |
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| bedboi | hi there. | 12:24 |
| inz | Guardian, the installer script is easy to mod to use others | 12:26 |
| keesj | "Maemo is application development platform for Nokia Internet Tablet products" on maemo.org 's front page . Is that supposed to be english or funny ? | 12:27 |
| Guardian | just typo | 12:27 |
| Guardian | "zaroo boogs found" is supposed to be funny | 12:28 |
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| keesj | I really dislike that "zaroo boogs found" | 12:30 |
| inz | Zarro | 12:31 |
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| keesj | I wonder what the next steps would be with this bounty idea. I can not do much more right now. Is it such a bad idea? | 12:40 |
| * Jaffa dunnos, I thought I could see some benefit in it, but the studies linked to were fairly negative in their conclusions of effectiveness. | 12:42 | |
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| c0ffee | i think it could be good for supporting ppl doing the unsexy stuff | 12:42 |
| c0ffee | like writing docs or fixing legacy stuff | 12:42 |
| Jaffa | Who's going to put a bounty up for unsexy stuff, though? :-( | 12:42 |
| c0ffee | which doesn't get as much attention as fancy new features | 12:42 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 12:43 |
| c0ffee | that would be the second part of my speech :) | 12:43 |
| c0ffee | i'm pretty sure this won't happen | 12:43 |
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| keesj | hmm , I see it in a different way. I see more like the "end users" wanting something and developers /guru's creating something | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | I suppose if a developer has an itch in a particular area, it's rewarding to know that a) others want it; b) they want it badly enough to contribute some token amount to its development. | 12:46 |
| c0ffee | hum hum | 12:46 |
| c0ffee | in a perfect world maybe | 12:46 |
| keesj | (like a home plugin to write applets in python), a gui for syngergy , stuff like that , I don't think it is very boring | 12:46 |
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| c0ffee | anyway, i think the current state, i.e. that nokia is rewarding stuff that they want, is suboptimal as well | 12:47 |
| keesj | alright , but I understand that there are many questions. | 12:48 |
| keesj | I for one never pressed such a "donate" button that you see on many pages | 12:48 |
| Jaffa | keesj: it could be interesting, but I think it needs careful designing (e.g. a "panel" of people moderating requests so it doesn't get silly: "I want to run Half Life 2 on my 770: $5,000,000" | 12:49 |
| keesj | I want to run Half Life 2 on my 770 cluster | 12:50 |
| Jaffa | ...and merging common requests. | 12:50 |
| keesj | I think that the http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006Wishlist would be a good start | 12:51 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: I think that page (historically) have shown how bad users are at requesting things. e.g. things which have already been done, not enough detail etc. Perhaps it's worth looking at things like Google Answers and the Yahoo! equivalent to see how they handle a lot of this stuff? | 12:53 |
| keesj | how about the Bluetooth Headset Support .Of course I want that, I can't do it myself. I feel lost because I have no control over that. I can only hope (just like for the developers program :)) | 12:55 |
| * jpetersen started to create a personal accounting software for maemo. See http://jpetersen.org/maemo/maemocash/ | 12:56 | |
| keesj | google answers? | 12:56 |
| Jaffa | keesj: AIUI, they're effectively "bounties for answers to random questions" | 12:56 |
| Jaffa | jpetersen: cool | 12:57 |
| jpetersen | it is a port of the HomeBank (http://homebank.free.fr/) application | 12:57 |
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| keesj | how about voting for bugs? | 13:05 |
| Jaffa | Isn't pledging a bounty a vote? Even if it's just a micropayment like $0.10 | 13:09 |
| c0ffee | i have a donate button on my homepage | 13:11 |
| c0ffee | in like 3 years, somebody donated $10 once | 13:12 |
| inz | And you were happy for 10 minutes? | 13:13 |
| c0ffee | very | 13:13 |
| c0ffee | the website costs 12.50 euro/month | 13:13 |
| Jaffa | Heh | 13:13 |
| c0ffee | google ads brings like $5/month | 13:13 |
| c0ffee | that's better | 13:13 |
| c0ffee | i think something like this would be better: | 13:15 |
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| c0ffee | nokia gives you a device and a task what to do with it | 13:15 |
| c0ffee | because in the end, you're stuck with the information they release and the changes they are willing to take over anyway | 13:15 |
| c0ffee | a real user-driven development would require a more free platform imho | 13:16 |
| * Jaffa 'd imagined it for more end-user stuff (e.g. Java applet plugin for Opera - theoretically doable by a 3rd party) | 13:16 | |
| * cesman transcoded a 5.4G HD recording to 175M w/ 770-encode.pl | 13:16 | |
| Jaffa | cesman: any problems? if so, drop me a mail (or any other suggestions you've got for it) | 13:16 |
| cesman | no major problems | 13:17 |
| part | what's the fascination with java here? I don't get it | 13:17 |
| cesman | Jaffa: is that your script? | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | cesman: yup | 13:17 |
| cesman | cool! | 13:17 |
| cesman | mind if I include it in my next release of KnoppMyth? | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | part: I like Java as a language, J2ME has lots of apps, and some online banks (not mine) require a Java applet for authentication | 13:18 |
| Jaffa | cesman: be my guest! | 13:18 |
| cesman | :D | 13:18 |
| cesman | mplayer seemed a little buggy in playing it back | 13:18 |
| * Jaffa wants to be able to hack Java/Groovy/Grails on the move as well | 13:18 | |
| cesman | the media player worked fine! | 13:18 |
| cesman | well, off to bed | 13:18 |
| cesman | should have been there hours ago | 13:19 |
| c0ffee | part, probably the same as with python :) | 13:19 |
| Veggen | Wee. | 13:19 |
| Veggen | Nokia N800 is on a car, on it's way here some time today. | 13:20 |
| Veggen | ("out for delivery" according to the tracking system) | 13:20 |
| dottedmag | Hi. I'd like to port changes done in osso-rss-feed-reader to the new upstream liferea version. Sadly, osso-rss-feed-reader is built as native package, and hence there is no orig.tar.gz and no diff.gz. I found reader is based on some CVS snapshot of liferea-0.6.0. Could someone of the Nokia developers check the exact date of snapshot (or may be even give me a tarball)? | 13:20 |
| part | jaffa: j2me has lots of non-free apps, not interesting at all | 13:20 |
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| tigert | X-Fade: we are moving around in the office building | 13:22 |
| tigert | X-Fade: and at least our internal servers are on the move right now | 13:23 |
| tigert | X-Fade: if test.maemo was one of them, it'd be getting installed on a new place soon | 13:23 |
| _matthias_ | ahm ... anyone knows if n770 logs bt connections | 13:23 |
| _matthias_ | i just cant get online via bt and gprs | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Ah :) I wanted to do some work on it over the weekend, but it was down.. | 13:25 |
| inz | dotted, you sure it isn't 0.6.0 final? | 13:27 |
| inz | dotted, at least comparing the ChangeLog file to CVS would indicate 0.6.0 | 13:28 |
| dottedmag | inz: Well, upstream does not tag releases :( | 13:28 |
| inz | But they have liferea-0_6_0 branch | 13:30 |
| dottedmag | inz: you're right. I was confused by the fact ChangeLog was updated with 0.6.0 release date only after release. | 13:31 |
| dottedmag | ugh. It would be tough work. 43k changed lines not counting changed whitespace. | 13:32 |
| dottedmag | *it will be | 13:32 |
| inz | =) | 13:32 |
| * sbaturzio is away: Lunch time... | 13:32 | |
| dottedmag | damn. I just need the digest HTTP auth. | 13:34 |
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| lardman | This may be a silly question, but is it possible to combine object files without a linker throwing errors for missing functions? | 13:38 |
| lardman | When one compiles the more complex DSP examples, they come in multiple source files, and each one produces an object file (.obj) | 13:39 |
| lardman | Now the DSP seems to expect to execute this object code rather than linked code (as the linker seems to want to link statically) | 13:39 |
| lardman | So I may just need to work out why the linker is linking statically I suppose (because this includes the avs_kernel.obj code, which makes it fail to run, and is rather large too) | 13:40 |
| lardman | Is that intelligible? | 13:41 |
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| tigert | X-Fade: I think I was wrong | 13:50 |
| tigert | X-Fade: ferenc replied | 13:50 |
| tigert | on your mail it seems | 13:50 |
| tigert | its back up | 13:50 |
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| X-Fade | tigert: Yeah, out of memory issue ;) | 13:54 |
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| kender | hello | 14:06 |
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| oleavr | hi, is the video call invitation activation supposed to work? (thought I'd ask here before starting to debug it) | 14:24 |
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| dballester | hi to all | 14:29 |
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| Veggen | mmmm, is the new application catalog updated with OS2007-stuff? Is that where you'd go nowadays? | 14:33 |
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| Guardian | is there moderation on the dev mailing list ? | 14:51 |
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| * sbaturzio is away: Back soon... (reboot) | 14:57 | |
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| Jaffa | Guardian: no, but it's configured to not send your email back to you | 15:33 |
| Guardian | oh explains the delay then :) | 15:33 |
| * Jaffa always gets caught out by it and I usually go and check the archives to see if it's been delivered ;) | 15:34 | |
| * Jaffa sees Guardian's post about IMs, though | 15:34 | |
| HGFB | Does anyone know how to do a right mouse click in Scummvm? | 15:41 |
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| Jaffa | Does tap and hold work? | 15:42 |
| HGFB | Dunno. I had enough trouble doing a hold mouse button on one of the puzzles in the Dig | 15:42 |
| HGFB | You have to hold down a button to activate a light bridge. It was a bugger to make it stick | 15:42 |
| HGFB | Shortly I'll have to use the right mouse to rotate some puzzle pieces. No idea how though | 15:43 |
| Veggen | Hmm. Is there only the "OS2007 tested applications" page for OS2007-apps? | 15:43 |
| Veggen | No software catalog with one-click install yet? | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | Veggen: not really yet, no. | 15:44 |
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| nnod | there doesn't appear to be any software that uses the camera on the OS2007 tested applications, and the only project in the garage seems to be only 5 days old. does anyone know if there's anything else being developed? | 15:52 |
| Jaffa | Very few developers will have an N800 at the moment due to the "promise" of a developer discount scheme, but no codes or dates having been announced. So everyone's waiting for a device to play with. | 15:53 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: ok. I had no hope as being recognized as one, yet. So I ordered one myself. | 15:55 |
| nnod | i take it the camera is v4l compatible? so an application like ekiga could be ported | 15:55 |
| keesj | Why does it have to take so long to get a clear picture , that is really all that I am asking | 15:55 |
| Jaffa | nnod: yes, it seems to be v4l2 compatible AIUI. There's also a tutorial on maemo.org | 15:57 |
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| part | nnod: yes, it's v4l2, and please port ekiga :) | 15:58 |
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| chx | gpd: hi | 16:00 |
| nnod | ekiga would be nice on the n800 | 16:00 |
| tigert | nnod: its v4l2 | 16:02 |
| tigert | and duh, I am slow :) | 16:02 |
| tigert | best to use gstreamer to poke with it of course | 16:02 |
| nnod | in my experience the difference between v4l and v4l2 is pretty transparent to the developer | 16:03 |
| tigert | yea, I dont know about that | 16:03 |
| tigert | you can apt-get install gstreamer-tools from the maemo repository for bora, | 16:04 |
| nnod | i didn't know gstreamer did v4l*... | 16:04 |
| * pahartik would like Ekiga on Maemo even without camera | 16:05 | |
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| nnod | are there even 500 developers working in the maemo community? it seems like a lot to me | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | They're including people who've contributed to the software stack at lower levels, rather than just Maemo userspace directly. | 16:09 |
| Jaffa | They need a new abacus though, it's taking ages to get up (or down) to 500. | 16:10 |
| dottedmag | Well, then there is still a chance to write something spectacular for 770 and get the device :) | 16:12 |
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| keesj | I have a garage project for sale , it is a few month old | 16:15 |
| keesj | never been used before | 16:16 |
| nnod | heh | 16:16 |
| keesj | hmm perhaps I must say it has been used | 16:16 |
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| pcfe | is somebody with root access on the maemo.org wiki box on? | 16:55 |
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| X-Fade | pcfe: Ferenc might be able to help you. What is it for? | 16:58 |
| bergie | pcfe: Ferenc is on Jabber but marked away | 16:58 |
| pcfe | I broke ApplicationCatalogWishlist this morning when I reverted it to a verison that was not spam defaced | 16:58 |
| pcfe | not quite sure what I did wrong, | 16:59 |
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| pcfe | but the page geves 500 ever since then. | 16:59 |
| pcfe | so you may want to log in the logs at what the wiki engine is nagging at | 16:59 |
| pcfe | s/geves/gives/ | 16:59 |
| part | the wiki is once again very slow | 17:00 |
| pcfe | if webmaster@maemo.org ends up at Ferenc and it is not 99% spam, then he'll see the mail I sent, but I fear it's gonna be one of those addresses that just drown in spam | 17:00 |
| part | nice, internal server error from the wiki | 17:01 |
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| suihkulokki | with spam filters well in place, I had almost forgotten spam exists | 17:02 |
| suihkulokki | but last weekenk when I transferred a mail server, I realized it has become impossible to watch mail.log with tail -f | 17:03 |
| suihkulokki | on a server with about 30 user accounts.. | 17:03 |
| part | internet email is broken | 17:03 |
| chx | alas :( | 17:04 |
| pcfe | yeah, won't be long until I go to whitelists | 17:04 |
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| tigert | I mostly just ignore email | 17:07 |
| tigert | it sucks fundamentally | 17:08 |
| tigert | there is just too much of it | 17:08 |
| k-s | man, just now I got the final n800... it's really great | 17:08 |
| k-s | i was working with an old prototype... and was upset | 17:09 |
| k-s | but the final version really rocks, much faster | 17:09 |
| k-s | now to make canola rock too | 17:09 |
| k-s | ;-) | 17:09 |
| pcfe | hmm, now where was that list of tested 4 GB cards again. Gotta go to the big electronics store tomorrow anyway, might as well pick one up | 17:11 |
| * k-s has no memory card | 17:12 | |
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| Veggen | I think I might go for 2GB. Or is 4GB considered safe enough? | 17:15 |
| Veggen | (going to the big electronics store today, I think) | 17:15 |
| pcfe | Veggen: that's why I asked for the list. 2GB is reputedly safe, but anything above 2 is a case of may or may not work | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | there is a kernel patch to support SDHC cards, but so far no success reports | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | (and no failure reports either, just nobody tried it yet) | 17:16 |
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| Molagi | hmm anyone got that mplayer working yet with n800? | 17:19 |
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| tigert | Veggen: dstone said that some older 4GB ones work that use the old addressing mode or something | 17:21 |
| tigert | so its officially 2GB limit | 17:21 |
| tigert | but some 4GB cards uses the same addressing scheme and they _might_ work if you are lucky | 17:22 |
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| part | 2GB is safe, I'd go for that | 17:22 |
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| tigert | yea | 17:24 |
| tigert | ie, new 4GB cards use different mode or soemthing and theres no driver for that in the kernel | 17:24 |
| tigert | even though it is electronically compatible | 17:24 |
| tigert | this is what I remember dstone saying | 17:24 |
| tigert | search the irc logs | 17:24 |
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| * osfameron stamps his feet and waits for N800 to arrive | 17:30 | |
| chx | tigert: right. SD-HC is new. Some 4GB cards are using normal SD but being 4Gbyte they are basically incompatible with everything | 17:33 |
| tigert | right | 17:33 |
| tigert | something like that | 17:33 |
| osfameron | what's a good OTG hard drive to use with a N800 ? | 17:34 |
| nnod | i think SD 1.0/1.1 can support up to 4GB if fat32 is used | 17:35 |
| nnod | but yes, the addressing schemes between SD and SDHC are different | 17:36 |
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| mokki | At least the linux kernel will support it soon http://uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0701.0/0847.html | 17:47 |
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| Zer0Her0_ | i know this has been probably asked a million times, but i've been so busy i totally missed the new OS release, will the new maemo run on the 770 or is it solely for the 800 | 18:11 |
| Jaffa | See topic. | 18:13 |
| Zer0Her0_ | the topic cuts off at new image: for me | 18:13 |
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| kender | hi | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | Ah | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | Zer0Her0_: "2007ish release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh" | 18:15 |
| Disconnect | Zer0Her0_: fyi you can type /topic to get the full list (in most clients) | 18:15 |
| Zer0Her0_ | Jaffa: thank you | 18:16 |
| Zer0Her0_ | Disconnect: sadly not in this client. | 18:16 |
| nnod | Zer0Her0_: it was also talked about recently on the mailing list in this thread: http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/007107.html | 18:16 |
| Zer0Her0_ | thank you | 18:16 |
| Disconnect | /quote topic #maemo (or /quote list #maemo) should do it, cuz thats dependent on the server rather than the client | 18:17 |
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| lasala | ordering from Nokia.com is a giant hassle... placed the order last week and still have the status appear "in progress". when i call them they tell me i have to verify some information and transfer me to a different department. after 30 mins on hold i hang up | 19:16 |
| osfameron | oh, that's handy, you can check your order status online... | 19:19 |
| osfameron | except then, when I do, it says there's no record of it | 19:19 |
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| osfameron | aha, I bought from direct.nokia.com (for Italy) rather than nokiashop.it | 19:21 |
| * pcfe is very glad that the N800 was actually available in stores last Tuesday and just dropped by to pick one up. | 19:21 | |
| sbaturzio | osfameron: just bought this afternoon, I'll tell you when it arrive | 19:21 |
| osfameron | sbaturzio: I ordered yesterday :-) I'll race ya! | 19:22 |
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| osfameron | pcfe: yeah, I'd have bought in shop, but the nokia point in Florence hadn't heard of it, never mind stocking it | 19:23 |
| Zer0Her0_ | so the overall consensus on the 800 is good? | 19:23 |
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| pcfe | Much nicer than 770. Played with it for 10 minutes at the store and decided to get it right then. | 19:24 |
| pcfe | the bigger memory helps having more apps open at the same time (no OOM killings yet) | 19:24 |
| pcfe | the faster CPU makes it all more snappy | 19:24 |
| pcfe | the integrated deskstand is a marvelous idea | 19:24 |
| SuperQ | ARG, now I have to buy a new toy | 19:24 |
| SuperQ | ;) | 19:24 |
| osfameron | the life of a geek is hard | 19:26 |
| Zer0Her0_ | how much faster is the CPU? | 19:30 |
| Zer0Her0_ | yea the deskstand is awesome idea, i hate the old one. | 19:30 |
| SuperQ | I dunno if anyone has done any real benchmarks | 19:31 |
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| lle2 | Zer0Her0_: 252MHz ARM9 vs. 330MHz ARM11 | 19:35 |
| Zer0Her0_ | lle2: thank you | 19:36 |
| Zer0Her0_ | hmm never really played with any ARM11 devices. | 19:36 |
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| zuh | For the case of Cairo: http://iki.fi/zuh/770_vs_N800.cairodiff.txt | 19:38 |
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| lle2 | zuh: is that still with floating point heavy cairo? | 19:41 |
| zuh | It's 1.3.10 without the --disable-some-fp flag | 19:42 |
| lle2 | zuh: if it is, it doesn't really say too much :( | 19:42 |
| lle2 | ok, then that's more about comparing the vfp unit with linux kernel floating point emulator | 19:43 |
| zuh | hmmh, ok | 19:43 |
| zuh | Do you have a good explanation for the difference in image(memory) and xlib backends too?-) | 19:44 |
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| lle2 | ;) blitting diff is real | 19:44 |
| zuh | I was going to rerun the tests with the less-fp flag on, but had to stay home for today. | 19:45 |
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| lle2 | zuh: when using xlib you've got to account for the extra copy to the external fb | 19:48 |
| Molagi | im getting my n800 this wednesday | 19:48 |
| lle2 | zuh: so there's basically twice the memory bandwidth load | 19:48 |
| Molagi | so prepare for lot of helpdesking | 19:48 |
| lle2 | zuh: at least, maybe even worse | 19:48 |
| * koen wonders when the devcontest will end | 19:48 | |
| lle2 | zuh: benchmarking this baby is much tricksier than I would hope for | 19:49 |
| zuh | lle2: so why it is up to 4 times faster than the image backend if it also does twice the work...?-) | 19:49 |
| zuh | ahem, actually "up to four times faster than what image backend is faster"... | 19:50 |
| lle2 | zuh: I don't know what an "image backend" for cairo is or how it does it's stuff | 19:51 |
| lle2 | zuh: but maybe it's a super-naive implementation? | 19:51 |
| zuh | It's basically sw implementation, everything happens in-memory | 19:53 |
| lle2 | zuh: and then the benchmark could be broken, since X is async by default, you could be measuring completely bogus stuff | 19:53 |
| lle2 | zuh: I had a lot of fun trying to benchmark the "hw acceleration" features in 770 | 19:53 |
| lle2 | zuh: ultimately I figured I could make the benchmark produce exactly the result I wanted | 19:54 |
| lle2 | which made the whole exercise quite useless | 19:54 |
| mokki | does the TI 2420 on N800 have VFP9 or VFP10? ( http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/VFP9-S.html or http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/VFP10.html ) or something else? | 19:55 |
| zuh | Well, I'm not exactly sure how the xlib benchmark works, but I'd think the people who did it are not completely unaware of the async nature of things ; | 19:55 |
| zuh | ) | 19:55 |
| lle2 | zuh: that may be, but when you disable async, you're also influencing how the X server does things, or at least that was the case with my version of Xomap | 19:56 |
| lasala | lol after over one hour on hold with nokia they tell me that the people who do order verification are stucked at home because of an ice storm | 19:56 |
| lle2 | zuh: it could no longer accumulate stuff to be transferred to the external fb | 19:56 |
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| lle2 | zuh: so it degraded the performance a lot | 19:58 |
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| lardman | Would one of you benchmarking gents mind running a test on the fp implementation on the n800? | 20:03 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/paranoia.vfp.out, or compile it yourself like so: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/compiling_things.txt | 20:04 |
| lle2 | lardman: maybe later, in three or four hours | 20:05 |
| lardman | Ah, ignore me, I've gone mad, I've already been sent the result | 20:06 |
| lardman | Time to go home I think | 20:06 |
| gpd | cesman: sorry - got cutoff by cable company for 12hrs - i am now booked into SCALE :) | 20:06 |
| lardman | I would be interested to see what kind of difference is makes to running Octave scripts though eventually | 20:07 |
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| lardman | night all | 20:07 |
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| lardman|gone | Hmm, nope I wasn't mad, if someone wouldn't mind running paranoia, I'd be interested to see the results. Thanks, bye | 20:09 |
| zuh | Is it just me, or is repository.maemo.org dog slow? | 20:11 |
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| gpd | lardman|gone: | 20:11 |
| gpd | The arithmetic diagnosed appears to be Excellent! | 20:11 |
| Disconnect | lardman|gone: ditto here | 20:16 |
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| tzz | does anyone know if the pop-up keyboard can be modified to have extra keys or an extra panel of keys (similar to the symbols panel)? This would be application-specific, not for every app. | 20:35 |
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| minra | i still dont have internet at home, whats new? | 20:35 |
| tzz | ideally I'd like a Ctrl and Alt modifier key in the main pop-up | 20:37 |
| tzz | F1 through F12 would be nice too. | 20:37 |
| chx | gpd: hi. Any news with PHP? Drupal 5 is released today. | 20:37 |
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| minra | the new mplayer is amazing | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | tzz: apparently it is impossible to have Ctrl or Alt in the vkb | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | the docs mention the possibility, but it looks like an early idea that was later abandoned | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | as far as I can tell, you can have 3 rows of keys in the alphabetic section, and 4 rows of keys in the numpad section | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | I do not think you can squeeze any more keys | 20:39 |
| * mgedmin wanted to add an AltGr to the right of space, and have a 3rd shift level, but couldn't find a way to do it | 20:40 | |
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| tzz | mgedmin: thanks! | 20:46 |
| tzz | mgedmin: I was hoping to avoid menus in the Emacs port I'm doing, but I guess I'll have to have a "Meta+" and "Ctrl+" menu as osso-xterm has. | 20:47 |
| mgedmin | ick | 20:48 |
| keesj | sometime the thumpad buffer seams to filled with text originating from opera , and every time I start typing the text is back again , it there a way to avoid/ empty the buffer? | 20:48 |
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| mgedmin | tzz: better look up the vncviewer package for inspiration | 20:48 |
| mgedmin | the way osso-xterm implements Ctrl+X is very suboptimal | 20:48 |
| tzz | mgedmin: got it. I didn't think of remapping the hardware keys. That should be pretty easy with a site init.el | 20:49 |
| tzz | mgedmin: they are just F keys, right? | 20:49 |
| mgedmin | some, yes | 20:49 |
| mgedmin | but I meant the toolbar that vncviewer has | 20:49 |
| mgedmin | one of the toolbar buttons pops up a menu where you can check/uncheck Ctrl/Alt etc. | 20:49 |
| tzz | mgedmin: I remember their VK constants are defined somewhere in the osso libs, but it's better to use F keys and keep Emacs as close to the source as possible. | 20:50 |
| tzz | I haven't played with vncviewer, so I'll try it to see what you mean. | 20:50 |
| mgedmin | there are two toolbar buttons: one makes the virtual keyboard apper | 20:51 |
| tzz | the problem with Emacs is, you really just want a modifier for the next key, not a popup "send Meta+ or Ctrl+" toolbar IMO. | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | other has a menu with ctrl/alt/shift as toggleable menu items, and submenus for sending F1..F12, arrow keys of all sorts, etc. | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | then maybe add two buttons to the toolbar -- C- and M- | 20:52 |
| tzz | OK, I'll take a look. That was very helpful, thanks! | 20:52 |
| tzz | heh, I'll add a Hyper modifier if I'm feeling mischievous. | 20:53 |
| minra | anybody here using a bluetooth keyboard? | 20:55 |
| Whiz | hmm.. I'm wondering how in the he** local computer store can sell N770 with price of only ~320 EUR as the nokia.com still sells it at 365 EUR or something.. before n800 arrived the n770 was sold with a pricetag of over 400 EUR | 20:55 |
| minra | i get crashes in many apps, mainly opera, selecting the input textbox, while a bluetooth kbd is connected ... 2.0 | 20:55 |
| minra | whiz, nokia sells to resellers at a cheaper price | 21:01 |
| minra | they can resell with a small profit, less than nokia charges | 21:02 |
| Whiz | ok | 21:02 |
| minra | if someone here wants to make a little money, they could sell 770s with 2GB cf cards with updated software | 21:02 |
| minra | but it would not be much money | 21:02 |
| minra | s/cf/rs-mmc | 21:03 |
| minra | you could even bundle open source games | 21:03 |
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| pahartik | ,Wii Whiz | 21:07 |
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| Whiz | hi, I'm Tero | 21:07 |
| Whiz | :) | 21:07 |
| pahartik | Whiz: and I forgot that I am not using Irssi | 21:08 |
| Whiz | pahartik, :) | 21:09 |
| pahartik | Whiz: ...while walking around outside | 21:09 |
| pahartik | Hello Whiz | 21:10 |
| minra | hrmrm | 21:10 |
| tko | MDK, http://ianmurdock.com/?p=400 :) | 21:11 |
| * pahartik does not know how to define "," as command character on X-Chat | 21:14 | |
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| keesj | what is commoditization? | 21:16 |
| tko | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commoditization ? | 21:17 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: I suppose I got Nokia 770 device from store you refer to, about two weeks before Nokia N800 appeared | 21:18 |
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| Whiz | pahartik, verkkokauppa.com? | 21:19 |
| keesj | tko, sorry kdict did not know the answer | 21:19 |
| pahartik | Whiz: that is their domain name | 21:19 |
| Whiz | pahartik, yes, byt that is also what they call themselves.. Or would you known the company if I'd said Arctecho Oy | 21:20 |
| Whiz | atleast in radio commersials they sing verkkokauppa.com :) | 21:21 |
| Molagi | heh i had 770 ordered two days before n800 was announced, thank god i had some time to cancel the order | 21:21 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: you know details... | 21:21 |
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| Whiz | pahartik, :) I work in Lauttasaari and my daily route from home to work goes through the shopping mall that has a verkkokauppa store in it :) | 21:23 |
| lle2 | hmm, maybe someone could make a little money selling insurances against immediate obsolescence | 21:23 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: I was not disappointed about lower price | 21:24 |
| Whiz | and when browsing my bank account statement I often see Artecho Oy | 21:24 |
| Whiz | I didnt mean that I'm disappointed about the lower price, just wondering about the huge difference in just couple of days. | 21:25 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: yes, other stores seem to stick with same price | 21:29 |
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| * pahartik gets back to Irssi (and inside) | 21:34 | |
| pahartik | Whiz: what have you done with Nokia 770 device so far? | 21:35 |
| Whiz | pahartik, humm.. I mainly use it for checking timetables when I'm off somewhere, also read comics (http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/sarjis/), rss feed, and on longer journeys I watch movies and at home I use it to listen webradio. | 21:37 |
| Whiz | s/feed/feeds/ | 21:37 |
| Whiz | mm.. I almost forgot IRC :) | 21:39 |
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| * Disconnect is about to use his 770 in its most important task yet - as a holder/charger for the n800 backup battery ;) | 21:41 | |
| tko | "So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was originally determined by the width of a horse's arse." :) | 21:42 |
| pahartik | Whiz: mostly similar to what I do, then... HTTP, IRC... listen to MPEG ADTS AAC content when going outside | 21:43 |
| Tak | sounds like the ultimate width determination to me | 21:43 |
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| Whiz | :) | 21:43 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: what I hope to find someday is IMAP/SMTP client and application for storing authentication information in encrypted form | 21:47 |
| Whiz | soppakirja might work if you get perl and gpg working :) (that can be found from that same url I've pasted earlier) | 21:48 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: I found it... but it is Perl :) | 21:59 |
| Whiz | :) | 21:59 |
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| Whiz | pahartik, http://www.holistech.co.uk/pwsafe.php Password Safe for Maemo IT2006 (Nokia 770) Password Safe is a tool that allows you to have a different password for all the different programs and websites that you deal with, without actually having to remember all those usernames and passwords. | 22:00 |
| Tak | what's the word about audio on the n800? | 22:03 |
| Tak | is it still esd or gstreamer? | 22:03 |
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| Tak | or do we get alsa now? | 22:03 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: now, that looks acceptable, and something I have not seen before... much like "Keyring" on PalmOS device | 22:03 |
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| Jaffa | pahartik: for IMAP/SMTP there's Sylpheed: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed </plug> | 22:16 |
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| purex | hi everybody. can you please help me with this question: how do i access ctrl or alt buttons on the virtual keyboard. Will get a BT keyboard soon but for now i have to use the virtual one | 22:39 |
| ||cw | purex: the little menu on the left side of the kb, IIRC | 22:41 |
| keesj | purex, in the xterm you must use the "menu" button and select terminal | 22:42 |
| purex | oh.. thanx | 22:42 |
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| wasabi | n800 has no usb host mode support does it? | 22:47 |
| wasabi | just checking. ;) | 22:47 |
| glass | does the same hack as on 770 work? | 22:47 |
| wasabi | dunno | 22:48 |
| wasabi | i'd be VERY interested in real usb host mode support though. I've wanted to builda car mount that hooks it up to internal HDs | 22:48 |
| glass | well the thing on 770 is that you just need to feed the 5v... and then some software of course | 22:49 |
| wasabi | Yeah, and you have to reboot it to put it in a different mode. | 22:50 |
| wasabi | Not exactly "step into your car and plug it in" | 22:50 |
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| wasabi | I guess you could "get it working" with bluetooh, but it'd be a big pain in the ass. | 22:51 |
| wasabi | You'd need a bluetooth receiver in the car, which would mean you need software to drive it. | 22:51 |
| wasabi | Unless there's a bluetooth to SATA converter someplace I'm not aware of. :0 | 22:52 |
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| glass | well, depending how much you're willing to put to it.. you might be better off building a carpc that's controlled via bt or wifi from the 770 | 22:56 |
| glass | or 8000 | 22:56 |
| glass | -0 | 22:56 |
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| Guardian | re | 22:57 |
| Guardian | generally speaking, is there something else than dbus to achieve inter application communications ? | 22:57 |
| Guardian | (for my unix culture) | 22:58 |
| wasabi | glass: Yeah, unfortunatly that's a big work. | 22:59 |
| wasabi | I'd rather a HD sitting in the back, with power supplied to it, and a USB cable running to the 770 :0 | 22:59 |
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| wasabi | Guardian: sockets, pipes, shared memory. | 23:00 |
| keesj | I thing shared memory ,pipes and sockets are the best known, corba was also used for gnome I don't know if it is still the case | 23:00 |
| keesj | thing = think | 23:00 |
| wasabi | Guardian: stdin. ;) | 23:00 |
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| pahartik | Whiz: that "pwsafe" application seems to be good enough for storing authentication information | 23:02 |
| Whiz | pahartik, good to know :) | 23:02 |
| chx | wasabi: while BT hard drives are rare , wifi hard drives are very common | 23:03 |
| wasabi | hmm that's true. | 23:03 |
| wasabi | Just, a bit more complicated than I'd like. | 23:03 |
| Guardian | ok so let say i want my application to be able to receive custom messages like "do this, do that" , what's the easiest way ? | 23:04 |
| Guardian | simple messages that is | 23:04 |
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| wasabi | Also, the 770 would probably have issues with being connected to BT and wifi | 23:04 |
| wasabi | Guardian: Depends on where your application is running. | 23:04 |
| wasabi | And what you wnat ot send the messgaes | 23:04 |
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| Guardian | wasabi: well 2 processes running on the same platform, simple message like "open this window", "switch to this mode" etc | 23:05 |
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| Guardian | what's the advantages of dbus over pipes ? | 23:06 |
| c0ffee | is it known what audio chip the 770 uses? | 23:06 |
| wasabi | Guardian: dbus promotes defined protocols better. | 23:06 |
| wasabi | And it does the parsing of data on it's own, etc. | 23:07 |
| wasabi | A socket is just a bit bucket. | 23:07 |
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| wasabi | as is a pipe, etc. | 23:08 |
| wasabi | dbus is also "more public" | 23:08 |
| wasabi | Other things other than your two talking programs can and do listen. | 23:08 |
| Guardian | so using dbus would typically lead to less coding efforts ? | 23:08 |
| MDK | hmm | 23:10 |
| MDK | they're already selling iphone on german amazon | 23:11 |
| MDK | insance | 23:11 |
| MDK | *insane | 23:11 |
| MDK | 1000 euro unlocked | 23:11 |
| zuh | c0ffee: Apparently something labeled AIC23 (but that's all I get from mail archive & googling) | 23:11 |
| zuh | MDK: url? | 23:12 |
| c0ffee | sounds possible | 23:12 |
| xan | MDK, http://www.cdaccess.com/jpg/shared/front/large/mdk.jpg | 23:12 |
| c0ffee | at least there are some sources for it available | 23:12 |
| xan | MDK, do you know about that? I can't help to think about it each time I see your nick | 23:13 |
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| keesj | I think of mandrake | 23:13 |
| MDK | zuh: check www.amazon.de frontpage | 23:14 |
| MDK | xan: yeah, I used to play mdk I | 23:15 |
| jtra | keesj: me too | 23:15 |
| MDK | though, the nick is just my initials | 23:15 |
| xan | it's clearly the best game ever | 23:15 |
| ||cw | MDK: it's not there | 23:15 |
| xan | (not) | 23:15 |
| MDK | ||cw: how about using that "search" box? | 23:16 |
| MDK | xan: btw, onne is proceeding good on gtk rewrite | 23:17 |
| MDK | he was showing me some nice stuff today | 23:17 |
| xan | those cut&paste headers from apple.com are the lamest thing ever | 23:17 |
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| xan | MDK, *ahem* | 23:18 |
| xan | :) | 23:18 |
| MDK | xan: true. But from what I read on daring fireball, people are actually buying this stuff from amazon.de | 23:18 |
| xan | MDK, tell him to fix bugs in gtk+ and stop smoking crack | 23:18 |
| xan | if he's not willing to spend 5 years in his rewrite I think he'll get better results from that | 23:19 |
| ferulo | I could join rapicorn effort | 23:19 |
| MDK | well... i guess fixing gtk bugs might lead to miserable life too ;) | 23:19 |
| chx | iPhone ... what's the point? it has no keyboard. It has no 3G. It is so expensive that it hurts. | 23:20 |
| MDK | gtk will look like motif in one year ;) | 23:20 |
| MDK | I mean, like motif looks now | 23:20 |
| chx | MDK: is that bad or good news :P ? | 23:21 |
| MDK | chx: let's not start the discussion ;) | 23:21 |
| xan | MDK, remind me to remind you about this in one year | 23:21 |
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| MDK | xan: I'll | 23:21 |
| MDK | xan: but next year is going to be the year of desktop linux, riiiiiiight? ;) | 23:22 |
| xan | most likely gtk+ will have fewer bugs and more functionality in one year, and onne's thing will be bit-rotting in his laptop. And I know stop-energy sucks, but we should get serious about improving gtk+ | 23:22 |
| xan | :/ | 23:22 |
| chx | If I want to burn 5-600 dollars I buy a HTC TyTN or much rather in 2-3 months, the upcoming Kaiser which is a thinner version of it with GPS. | 23:22 |
| chx | Year of Desktop Linux will cometh when Ubuntu Bug 1 will be marked fixed :P | 23:23 |
| ||cw | heh | 23:24 |
| glass | tytn is for different use | 23:25 |
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| roope | TyTN is ... the hardware is quite niec, but the software is pretty awful. | 23:25 |
| glass | yes | 23:26 |
| glass | well | 23:26 |
| glass | hw isn't THAT nice either | 23:26 |
| roope | Well, the qwerty keypad isn't that bad. | 23:26 |
| MDK | xan: I added this conversation to http://www.futureme.org/ we'll have some fun in 15 Jan 2008 ;) | 23:26 |
| roope | the design is very non-sexy. | 23:26 |
| xan | MDK, heh, nice service | 23:26 |
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| glass | anyways, tytns reso is crappy, if you compare it 770 wise, and as a phone i can't bare to use any wm5 | 23:27 |
| glass | keyboard and pocketputty and such are nice.. | 23:27 |
| ||cw | what's that hildon UI based linux phone that's supposed to released this year | 23:27 |
| ferulo | night! | 23:27 |
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| roope | openmoko? | 23:27 |
| glass | beats me | 23:27 |
| ||cw | yeah that one | 23:28 |
| chx | I only told the channel already yesterday: I want something significantly smaller than my 12" subnotebook (weight wise as well. it's 1.2-1.3kg) which has a QWERTY keyboard and enough horsepower to devel a PHP CMS (Drupal) | 23:28 |
| MDK | since when it's hildon-based? | 23:28 |
| roope | colour me skeptical. | 23:28 |
| ||cw | read some of the list archives, sounds pretty sweet | 23:28 |
| glass | 640x480 wm5 devices are horribly slow too.. | 23:28 |
| chx | I am eyeing the N800 with a Sierra keyboard. gpd told me he tested PHP on 770 and it was terribly slow but he will test it on N800 this week. | 23:29 |
| ||cw | MDK: maybe only some of it is? just some references to hildon in the mailing list, liek http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/000978.html | 23:29 |
| MDK | as a hildon-libs maintainer I can tell you, that it'd better not be hildon-based ;) | 23:30 |
| ||cw | it's certianly gtk | 23:31 |
| chx | so, anyone has some good ideas about such a device? I am also eyeing the Sony 101 or one of its successors | 23:31 |
| ||cw | MDK: and why not | 23:31 |
| zuh | ||cw: I think that reference to hildon is purely in the sense of concept, not actually using it :) | 23:31 |
| ||cw | k | 23:31 |
| roope | chx: Quite limited options. There was this one really strange looking device, hmm. | 23:32 |
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| chx | roope: the Sony U101 actually looks good to what I want but where can I get one of such an old device which was not officially sold outside of Japan...? | 23:32 |
| ||cw | chx: main issues are going to be cpu and memory, takes like 12 meg just to load a common php binary with one db extention | 23:33 |
| gpd | chx: i' should be more able to test soon -- just delayed my presentation! :) | 23:33 |
| chx | ||cw: I hardly need more than instance than a PHP binary :) | 23:33 |
| chx | doh | 23:34 |
| chx | I checked the Sony U101 weight. it's 900 grams. Too much. | 23:34 |
| gpd | chx: can you point me toward the drupal-sqlite stuff? Does drupal 5 have any support built in? | 23:34 |
| roope | well OQO of course. | 23:34 |
| glass | oqo | 23:34 |
| glass | yeah | 23:34 |
| chx | roope: OQO?? Hmmmmmmmmmm does Linux run on that? | 23:35 |
| glass | it should? | 23:35 |
| roope | I guess you could install it. | 23:35 |
| glass | it's a pc after all | 23:35 |
| chx | gpd: there is a patch but no support in Drupal 5. I hope for Drupal 6. | 23:35 |
| chx | Sony U71? | 23:36 |
| roope | oqo1 starts at 1199$. oqo2 at 1499$. | 23:36 |
| chx | I have not mentioned price | 23:36 |
| glass | or flybook, if it's not too big | 23:36 |
| chx | I barely care about price | 23:36 |
| chx | flybook is huge | 23:36 |
| tigert | yea, I cannot really understand how people even compared the 770 to a UMPC | 23:36 |
| roope | You surely want an integrated keyboard. | 23:36 |
| chx | of course | 23:36 |
| tigert | its like you could get four 770's for the price | 23:37 |
| tigert | roope: I still love the thumb keyboard :) | 23:37 |
| chx | if the N800 can't run PHP at a decent speed then it's a problem | 23:37 |
| roope | I personally would get an oqo2 if I would want such a device. | 23:37 |
| roope | Yeah I watched you type with that thing today, it was fast. :) | 23:37 |
| roope | We should record a video of you using it. | 23:37 |
| tigert | I have a pretty decent small laptop in my use if I want a real computer | 23:37 |
| tigert | roope: perhaps yeah | 23:37 |
| tigert | we can do that tomorrow | 23:37 |
| gpd | chx: i am looking in your contributions/sandbox/chx - is that the place for the patch? | 23:37 |
| tigert | roope: I irc quite a lot with it during commutes | 23:38 |
| tigert | like today | 23:38 |
| chx | gpd: no. | 23:38 |
| roope | http://dynamism.com/oqo02/main.shtml?gclid=CKCp8vaw44kCFTYNQgodGFJfJg | 23:38 |
| tigert | chatted with four friends and caught up what was going on | 23:38 |
| roope | The OQO 02 measures 5.6 x 3.3 x 1.0in (142 x 84 x 25mm) and weighs less than 1lb (less than 450g). | 23:38 |
| roope | That's really nice. | 23:38 |
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| glass | i'd have oqo 2 in the jacket pocket if price wasnt an issue | 23:38 |
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| lle2 | that oqo is ugly | 23:39 |
| chx | gpd: http://drupal.org/node/67349 | 23:39 |
| Milhouse | glass: or weight :) | 23:40 |
| glass | 450g isn't bad | 23:40 |
| chx | I looked at various Sony devices and actually the U71 or the UX180 would be nice. | 23:40 |
| Milhouse | bit heavy for a jacket pocket, imho | 23:40 |
| glass | not really if it's shaped like it is | 23:40 |
| glass | not for me anyhow | 23:40 |
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| chx | also it would be nice if I would not need to rob a bank... | 23:40 |
| glass | like a can of coke, but in better form | 23:41 |
| Milhouse | half a bag of sugar | 23:41 |
| roope | We have one UX180. It's horrible. :) | 23:41 |
| roope | It really is. | 23:41 |
| Milhouse | half a kilo, you'd notice carrying that around all day - at least I would | 23:41 |
| roope | It's too thick and bulky, the software sucks, the keyboard is horrible etc. | 23:41 |
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| chx | roope: if you look at the page you linked, at the very bottom, there is a comparison to Sony UX. It says "1399-". Where can one find a new Sony UX 180 for 1400 bucks? | 23:42 |
| glass | milhouse: i don't like too light jackets anyhow :p | 23:43 |
| Milhouse | :) | 23:43 |
| chx | roope: ooooh on dynamism.com . I am blind. | 23:43 |
| roope | oqo 02 is really nice, they fixed the problems of the 01. and the price is still reasonable. | 23:44 |
| glass | hmm 1gig | 23:45 |
| glass | would be enough for working | 23:45 |
| gpd | chx: ok - thttpd installed and running -- connected to http://localhost | 23:45 |
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| glass | with docking station.. bah now i want one | 23:45 |
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| chx | gpd: Hey! that links to my devel drupal :P | 23:46 |
| gpd | chx: the next step might be a bottleneck -- i need to port or find a port of php for armel | 23:47 |
| chx | gpd: packages.debian.org to the rescue | 23:48 |
| MDK | hmm, wasn't openmoko wiling to announce something in january? | 23:48 |
| roope | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNsMshBsNNg that oqo (stand) design is very nice, in fact. | 23:49 |
| gpd | chx: is php5 heavier than php4? memory/proc wise? | 23:49 |
| chx | gpd: PHP5 is so much faster than PHP4 that the issue is largely moot. | 23:51 |
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| gpd | ok - i'm going with debian/testing - php5, php5-cgi, php5-common | 23:52 |
| gpd | hmm.. there are a lot of dependencies for those - maybe it is worth more googling for maemo + php | 23:53 |
| gpd | or even just going from vanilla php-5.2.0.tgz - | 23:54 |
| chx | that might work... | 23:56 |
| Veggen | ppl - how do you install on your N800 - practically - before the repositories are set up? (or are there repositories you should add already?) | 23:57 |
| gpd | Veggen: depends what you want to install - there are some repos - but not all in there yet | 23:58 |
| chx | gpd: http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=37062 this tells me you might even succeed | 23:58 |
| Veggen | or is your best bet to go to the new-style OS2006-catalog and just try the packages there? | 23:58 |
| Veggen | (with one-click-method) | 23:58 |
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