| Disconnect | direct sunlight on a bright day circa noon wasn't bad, yah, but ... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * Disconnect might have a bum camera, but i may never know - i'm the only person i know with -any- tablets, much less a new one :) | 00:01 | |
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| Disconnect | well.. i know someone with a proper gateway convertable, but nobody with nokia tablets | 00:01 |
| tzz | ok, gmediaserver works well with the N800. I will try fuppes tonight I guess. | 00:02 |
| tzz | the N800 doesn't seem to have the bug where entries after the 30th or so would be cut off. | 00:02 |
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| guerby | bug report: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=941 | 00:03 |
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| tzz | in the media streamer, can the image change or is it fixed to that drawing of a walking man? | 00:05 |
| lasala2k | is flash video playback such as youtube going to be faster on the N800 soon? | 00:06 |
| lasala2k | I heard youtube still blows on N800 | 00:06 |
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| Tak | I blame adobe | 00:07 |
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| tzz | youtube works OK for me, pretty fast and no skips with 3 videos I tried | 00:09 |
| lasala2k | ok good to hear | 00:10 |
| gpd | is curl as good or better than wget - or are they different fish? I have curl on the tab but not used it much before. Considering using it to grab little chunks of wikipedia for offline browsing. | 00:12 |
| Disconnect | anyone get the media streamer to work with mythtv? no matter what I pick (video or music) i get 'object not found' | 00:13 |
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| Disconnect | afaik the mythtv upnp server works, or at least hte wiki page lists a bunch of working clients | 00:16 |
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| gpd | i keep finding repositories on ApplicationCatalog2006 that have binaries but no source debs -- is it likely that they just recompiled the debian src? | 00:19 |
| Tak | argh, that reminds me - is there a way to upload source packages to garage extras yet? | 00:20 |
| gpd | it would be helpful to have a 'Source Download' link on the wiki page at least | 00:20 |
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| Guardian | re | 00:26 |
| Guardian | good evening | 00:26 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: I've realised I don't even need to keep the local repository (not important for the workflow or how the user uses it, just keeps it need) | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | bah, *neat* | 00:29 |
| gpd | I have this underlying fear that most 3rd party developers are going to 'boycot' recompiling their stuff for bora until Nokia gives them all a free N800 ;) | 00:30 |
| ||cw | heh | 00:31 |
| shackan | how does one become root in scratchbox ? | 00:31 |
| ||cw | nokia should setup a cluster for native compiling like hp did for the ipaqs | 00:32 |
| myren | and they should cool it with Ln | 00:32 |
| myren | our N800's run 700 mhz | 00:32 |
| myren | speed up compilation | 00:32 |
| myren | i guess native compling doesnt mean on the native hardware | 00:33 |
| Tak | gpd: I wouldn't say boycott | 00:33 |
| ||cw | gpd: anyone can download the sdk and test there app so long as it ins't too dependant on hardware | 00:33 |
| gpd | yeah - they can -- doesn't mean they have a burning incentive if they have to stick with mistral on their 770 | 00:33 |
| ||cw | myren: well, the native platform anyway. sometimes crosscompiling just doens't go well | 00:33 |
| dragorn | it'd be more efficient to just run the cpu emulation on a big box | 00:35 |
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| shackan | in order to use bluetooth in the simulator, I need to run the hcid daemon, which in turn needs to be run as root to configure the bt interface, and it exports some things on the D-Bus system bus, anybody knows if it works or if I'm just wasting my time ? | 00:37 |
| guerby | # | 00:37 |
| guerby | Application ssh | 00:37 |
| guerby | * | 00:37 |
| guerby | Status: Works. | 00:37 |
| guerby | * | 00:37 |
| guerby | How to install: Add same repo as for X Termina, then activate red pill, update list and then choose ssh from the list | 00:37 |
| guerby | eh eh :) | 00:37 |
| Disconnect | ||cw: when compaq built the pool it was mostly because there were roughly-equivalent arm boxes out to be used. adding actual ipaqs was way later and was sorta just a way to retire or store dev units :) | 00:37 |
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| Tak | to me, it's not that I don't have any incentive | 00:39 |
| Tak | it's that the scratchbox env doesn't give me a real idea of how my apps run on the device | 00:39 |
| gpd | Tak: i'm sure you'll get feedback pretty quickly - what are your apps? | 00:40 |
| * pahartik seems to have idea about process threads but it is incompatible with reality | 00:40 | |
| Disconnect | yah - if it had no gui, it would be ok. if it had a working/authentic gui, it would be ok. the fact that it has a half-working mushedup gui is what annoys me | 00:40 |
| Tak | fceu, xmame, xmaeme, vba | 00:40 |
| gpd | Tak: wow - very nice list :) | 00:41 |
| dragorn | anyone have any idea what /usr/bin/time is, that build is looking for in scratchbox? | 00:41 |
| Tak | well - they're apps I've *ported* | 00:41 |
| dragorn | since 'time' is a bash builtin :P | 00:41 |
| Tak | although fceu may as well be mine, since it's essentially abandoned | 00:42 |
| Disconnect | random side note for anyone talking with nokia.. home-home should go to the desktop. (instead of dropping the menu - if i wanted it to go away i'd hit escape....) | 00:42 |
| gpd | so it strikes me that for non-gui app the bottleneck is the cross-compilation step -- or rather setting up scratchbox and knowing what to do with it to cross-compile, and generate armel-debs. But that the testing part is quicker as you don't have to be particularly skilled to do that bit. | 00:46 |
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| dragorn | which scratchbox version are people using lately | 00:48 |
| gpd | ii scratchbox-core 1.0.7 | 00:49 |
| dragorn | the compile system seems mightily broken in that version, or is it just me | 00:50 |
| suihkulokki | scratchbox is not a emulator nor a simulator.. it's a crosscompilin env | 00:50 |
| dragorn | suihkulokki: Which contains qemu for cpu-transparency emulation. | 00:50 |
| gpd | dragorn: what are you trying to compile? | 00:51 |
| dragorn | gpd: scratchbox itself | 00:51 |
| dragorn | gpd: Their new build script is very strange | 00:51 |
| gpd | oh. i see -- i just used the debs :| | 00:51 |
| suihkulokki | dragorn: the build scripts work only in debian/sarge env | 00:51 |
| dragorn | gpd: and tries to run stuff that doesn't exist, like '822-date'. wtf is 822-date? :P | 00:51 |
| dragorn | suihkulokki: that's amazingly useless. | 00:52 |
| dragorn | perhaps I ought to stop dealing with this tonight and go have dinner before I get ruder. :P | 00:52 |
| gpd | 822-date - Print date and time in RFC822 format | 00:52 |
| gpd | dragorn: perhaps you should install debian | 00:52 |
| * gpd runs | 00:52 | |
| suihkulokki | dragorn: install sbox from the tarballs | 00:53 |
| suihkulokki | dragorn: even if you would manage to rebuild it somewhere else, you would have to copy a shitload of debian etch tools to *inside* scratchbox to have a matching build env with the target | 00:54 |
| gpd | indeed -- 822-date is in dpkg-dev | 00:54 |
| suihkulokki | if you really, really want to compile it, you should work on sbox2 =) | 00:55 |
| gpd | suihkulokki: sbox2 = scratchbox version 2 ? | 00:56 |
| koen | scratchbox version nice | 00:56 |
| gpd | svn only? pre-alpha? | 00:56 |
| * Disconnect found the 'answer' to the upnp problem btw. gotta set a proper ip in mythtv-setup for the backend. (although now its not showing up at all, go figure.) | 00:56 | |
| suihkulokki | git-only | 00:57 |
| gpd | summary of why 'nicer' in 1 line? | 00:57 |
| dragorn | suihkulokki: I want to build a frigging app, not install a new distro just to compile a binary. THIS would be a major problem for developers, for example. | 00:58 |
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| Guardian | good night | 01:00 |
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| suihkulokki | gpd: sbox2 takes tens of KB while sbox < 1.x takes hundreds of megabytes =) | 01:00 |
| gpd | dragorn: what will you be compiling once you get scratchbox running? | 01:01 |
| dragorn | gpd: I was going to be rebuilding the kismet packages to match the release I'm rolling out tonight or tomorrow morning. | 01:01 |
| gpd | if you just 'need it done' i have a working scratchbox atm | 01:02 |
| * dragorn shrugs | 01:02 | |
| trenka | suihkulokki: anyway, I'm afraid now about our idea about modularized initfs | 01:02 |
| dragorn | I'm sure someone will when I release the finals | 01:02 |
| dragorn | at the moment i'm cranky so I'm going out | 01:03 |
| Disconnect | gmediaserver works with media streamer :) | 01:03 |
| gpd | dragorn: k - have fun | 01:03 |
| dragorn | gpd: I'm significantly irked that sb installed very nicely the last time I dealt with it and is very much the opposite at the moment | 01:03 |
| dragorn | gpd: Thats about it. | 01:03 |
| gpd | Disconnect: ya -- works a treat - have you tried anything other than mp3? | 01:04 |
| MDK | daniels: ping | 01:04 |
| Disconnect | gpd: serving the samba'd itunes library, its not liking the itunes rips but mp3s are working | 01:04 |
| Disconnect | i'll try video once the mythtv box gets its upnp server back up | 01:04 |
| gpd | can I install extra virtual packages for scratchbox? or is what you get - what you get? | 01:06 |
| Disconnect | fakeroot apt-get inside scratchbox | 01:06 |
| gpd | ok - tried that - so must be not available :( | 01:07 |
| MDK | hmm, does the ld-linux.so.2 vs ld-linux.so.3 difference comes from arm vs armel? | 01:07 |
| MDK | err | 01:07 |
| MDK | i mean, gnueabi | 01:07 |
| Disconnect | gpd: scratch that, it looks like its playing one of them now. (skipping around doesn't work tho) | 01:09 |
| gpd | *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid next size (normal): 0x00011418 *** <-- iproute failing | 01:17 |
| gpd | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gpd/iproute/iproute-20041019/tc' | 01:17 |
| gpd | no idea what tc is - maybe i can build without | 01:18 |
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| lindi- | tc is handy for traffic shaping | 01:19 |
| gpd | do you think it is required for vpnc? | 01:19 |
| lindi- | i don't know what "vpnc" is :/ | 01:20 |
| gpd | i am building iproute for vpnc --- vpn for cisco 3000 | 01:20 |
| lindi- | is that proprietary? then i don't want to know :) | 01:20 |
| gpd | http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/vpnc | 01:20 |
| lindi- | ah | 01:21 |
| lindi- | well, most likely you don't need tc | 01:21 |
| gpd | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/vpnc/ | 01:21 |
| gpd | i could wait for them to port to bora -- or i could just try the mistral version(!) | 01:22 |
| lindi- | i use openvpn everywhere currently | 01:22 |
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| gpd | don't suppose that would work here - :? | 01:23 |
| lindi- | o dpm | 01:23 |
| lindi- | whoops :), mean't to type "i don't know" but keyboard was misplaced | 01:23 |
| gpd | actually -- it might -- http://www.bol.ucla.edu/services/wireless/ | 01:24 |
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| gpd | they mention vpnlinux-47 | 01:25 |
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| * gpd completes compilation of openvpn for armel :) | 01:39 | |
| Disconnect | gpd: it was easy for arm, should be easy for armel | 01:41 |
| gpd | openvpn depends on maemo; however: | 01:41 |
| gpd | i am just updateing the mistral to bora -- but obviously something wrong | 01:42 |
| gpd | Architecture: armel | 01:42 |
| gpd | Depends: maemo | 01:42 |
| gpd | wtf? | 01:43 |
| gpd | Disconnect: any pointers on that one? | 01:43 |
| Disconnect | drop the dependency | 01:44 |
| Disconnect | iirc at one point maemo was the 'default' environment dependency | 01:44 |
| gpd | where? | 01:45 |
| Jaffa | debian/control | 01:45 |
| gpd | 'course -- sorry - didn't do -r in grep | 01:46 |
| gpd | maybe there should be a virtual package for bora to get around that -- transitional | 01:47 |
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| gpd | Setting up openvpn (2.0-1maemo2) ... >:) | 01:48 |
| gpd | Nokia-N800-51:~# openvpn --version | 01:48 |
| gpd | OpenVPN 2.0 arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi [SSL] [EPOLL] built on Jan 12 2007 | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | gpd: it dates back to OS 2005: I don't think mistral had a virtual package either. It helps ensure OS 2005 packages weren't accidentally installed on OS 2006. | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | gpd: excellent! | 01:49 |
| gpd | ah - ok | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | gpd: might be interesting to see if we can get it in mud-builder (did you have to patch anything?) | 01:49 |
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| gpd | no - just that dependency | 01:49 |
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| gpd | http://www.rahkonen.org/openvpn.html <-- from there | 01:49 |
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| gpd | not sure what they did | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | Ah, I see. | 01:50 |
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| maihem | I just got my n800... but wifi connections get no default route even when I set static ip. running /sbin/route -n from xterm segfaults. Anybody seen this? | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | Not got an N800, but not heard of it, no. | 01:51 |
| maihem | Is there a command to connect to a wifi connection via the commandline so I can see any error messages? | 01:54 |
| Jaffa | Not easily. There's been a recent thread on one of the mailing lists about diagnosing connection problems, that might have some more info in. | 01:55 |
| maihem | thanks, I'll look for it | 01:55 |
| |tbb| | could u go into the router menu | 01:55 |
| daniels | MDK: pong | 01:57 |
| maihem | router menu? | 01:57 |
| MDK | daniels: ld-linux.so.2 vs. ld-linux.so.3 is the legacy vs eabi? | 01:59 |
| trenka | MDK: yes | 02:00 |
| MDK | is there anything "special" needed to get eabi, except from target = -gnu-eabi? | 02:01 |
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| MDK | I build a toolchain with -gnu-eabi, but somehow it produces legacy binaries | 02:01 |
| MDK | *built | 02:01 |
| MDK | arm-none-linux-gnueabi that is | 02:02 |
| MDK | maybe my components are too old | 02:02 |
| trenka | nothing very special, but official libc port is quite poor | 02:03 |
| trenka | MDK: do you read debian-arm? Lennert announced a debian port today | 02:05 |
| c0ffee | re | 02:05 |
| trenka | or "the debian port" | 02:06 |
| trenka | sorry for my French | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | i think it existed for quite some time, or? | 02:06 |
| trenka | no, there where no real port | 02:07 |
| trenka | there were | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | not real as in official | 02:07 |
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| Jaffa | re c0ffee | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | jaffa :) | 02:08 |
| c0ffee | any news? | 02:08 |
| Jaffa | not to me :-/ | 02:08 |
| trenka | it was like we have in n800, something is eabi, something is oabi ... | 02:08 |
| c0ffee | to me neither | 02:08 |
| trenka | and nobody runs it, except nokia | 02:08 |
| MDK | hah | 02:08 |
| gpd | talking of connection problems - is there a quick way to see your current IP address? i'm not seeing it in control panel | 02:08 |
| c0ffee | in the connection damager | 02:09 |
| MDK | trenka: I build a D compiler, works cool, got a devkit for sbox | 02:09 |
| MDK | trenka: now I just want to make it produce eabi codew | 02:09 |
| MDK | *code | 02:09 |
| |tbb| | type ifconfig wlan0 | 02:09 |
| trenka | MDK: you are cool | 02:09 |
| trenka | :) | 02:09 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: however mud-builder's now doing cool stuff with temporary local Subversion repos for patch management. | 02:10 |
| trenka | I'll drink some beer for it | 02:10 |
| MDK | I based my stuff on crosstool, but it's a bit old | 02:10 |
| trenka | sorry, not beer, but "finnish beer" | 02:10 |
| c0ffee | :) | 02:10 |
| |tbb| | will kismet run with the n800 fine? | 02:10 |
| trenka | MDK: crosstool? is a set of useless scripts? | 02:11 |
| MDK | trenka: indeed | 02:11 |
| MDK | unfortunately, that's the first thing I found | 02:11 |
| shackan | MDK, awesome | 02:11 |
| gpd | c0ffee: thanks - had forgotten about CManager -- |tbb| i thought need root to do ifconfig - maybe i need /sbin/ifconfig | 02:12 |
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| c0ffee | yeah, you don't need root for invoking ifconfig | 02:12 |
| c0ffee | just for changing stuff | 02:12 |
| gpd | either way i have 169.254.wasteof.time :( | 02:12 |
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| trenka | MDK: try do make it yourself, it helps :) If you have difficultes (sorry for the spelling), I have a couple of simple scripts to build a cross toolchain | 02:13 |
| |tbb| | you dont have to be root iirc | 02:13 |
| MDK | trenka: I'm doing it kinda "myself"... i wrote my own set of scripts based on crosstool | 02:13 |
| trenka | MDK: you are cool | 02:13 |
| MDK | since I wanted to have reproducable results | 02:13 |
| trenka | MDK: you are my hero | 02:14 |
| MDK | but crosstool is kinda messy | 02:14 |
| shackan | ./me can't resist the dumb question, what about bootstrapping the gdc from scratchbox ? | 02:14 |
| MDK | shackan: nope, not possible | 02:14 |
| maihem | |tbb|: ifconfig wlan0 seemed fine, but I just noticed the netmask is wrong... 255.255.2550 missing a dot. I'll just check my settings | 02:14 |
| MDK | shackan: btw, why would you want to do this? | 02:15 |
| maihem | dot is present in advanced settings dialog | 02:15 |
| maihem | |tbb|: what is kismet? | 02:15 |
| * gpd wonders why something called "Free Public WiFi" would give 169.254. address | 02:15 | |
| MDK | shackan: actually, it should be a part of the full toolchain, just like g++ | 02:15 |
| trenka | does anybody have Pink Floyd "the Wall" video? | 02:15 |
| * Jaffa has seen an AP with exactly that behaviour too. | 02:15 | |
| Jaffa | trenka: YouTube? | 02:16 |
| c0ffee | gpd, that's the 'no reply from dhcp ip' address | 02:16 |
| trenka | Jaffa: a CD on youtube? :) | 02:16 |
| |tbb| | a passive wireless scanner | 02:16 |
| gpd | c0ffee: aye - so i need kismet or something to work out if i can static it? | 02:16 |
| Jaffa | trenka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6luoc9Mmxdg | 02:16 |
| maihem | gpd, its the link-local address, a zeroconf one. I've seen devices named "Free Public Wifi". Check that you are not connecting to somebodies laptop. | 02:16 |
| maihem | |tbb|: what do you think about the missing dot in the netmask? | 02:17 |
| c0ffee | gpd, tcpdump maybe | 02:17 |
| gpd | trenka: get The Wizard of OZ to the tune of The Dark Side of the Moon -- on google video ;) | 02:17 |
| c0ffee | bbl | 02:18 |
| MDK | Jaffa: does your nick has something to do with those candies? | 02:18 |
| maihem | |tbb|: nevermnd, going fullscreen and running ifconfig again shows the netmask correctly | 02:18 |
| Jaffa | MDK: Nope, that's a new one. What candies? | 02:18 |
| |tbb| | dont understand that, make following ifconfig wlan0 down after then set it again up with ifconfig wlan0 up | 02:19 |
| |tbb| | what came if u type route | 02:19 |
| maihem | segfault | 02:19 |
| MDK | Jaffa: ah, there are those choclate candies in finland... | 02:19 |
| MDK | actually, I'm eating them right now | 02:19 |
| |tbb| | r u r00t | 02:19 |
| maihem | no, brand new device, I've deleted the free song, foreign user guides, configured my mobile phone and wifi, then installed xterm via usbdisk. that's all | 02:20 |
| maihem | I can't ifconfig down and up | 02:21 |
| gpd | maihem: when deleting the guides did you find a way to select multiple files? | 02:21 |
| * gpd holds and drags--- doh | 02:22 | |
| maihem | drag starting at a file that isn't selected | 02:22 |
| * gpd wonders why US guide is 1MB bigger than GB ... :) | 02:23 | |
| Disconnect | disclaimers and regulatory info? (prolly not actually since GB is worse wrt radios) .. might be english/spanish vers (or eng/sp/french if its the canadian version too) | 02:25 |
| Jaffa | keesj: if you're awake, mud-builder svn now has local patch management: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6luoc9Mmxdg | 02:26 |
| Jaffa | Doh, wrong URL. | 02:26 |
| Jaffa | keesj: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php?root=mud-builder&rev=16&view=rev | 02:26 |
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| trenka | Jaffa: anyway thank you very much | 02:29 |
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| trenka | I had a cd, But I do not remember who's taken it temporary a couple of years ago :) | 02:32 |
| daniels | MDK: we have jaffas in australia as well -- they're great | 02:33 |
| trenka | daniels: you are in Australia already ? | 02:33 |
| *** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk | 02:33 | |
| daniels | trenka: i wish. i'm in a hotel next to heathrow because ba are criminally incompetent. | 02:33 |
| daniels | a mere 24h delay ... | 02:33 |
| trenka | :) | 02:33 |
| trenka | London, Mery fucking Poppins :) | 02:34 |
| trenka | (c) | 02:34 |
| gpd | tuppence a bag me old mucka | 02:34 |
| daniels | i don't so much mind london, as my plane being delayed for four hours, and my luggage _still_ being in helsinki, because a) ba didn't plan for a full flight, and b) heathrow security are bastards. | 02:35 |
| MDK | daniels: check if they're "made in poland" (as the finnish ones) ;) | 02:35 |
| trenka | MDK: you do not like Polish? | 02:35 |
| MDK | trenka: I'm polish | 02:36 |
| trenka | I guess :) | 02:36 |
| daniels | (they found fifteen people to move to another flight to get it at the right weight, but heathrow security didn't want bags coming in without their owners, so instead they chucked _all_ the bags off, and we got there a mere four hours late ...) | 02:37 |
| trenka | MDK: I'm Byelorussian, JFY | 02:37 |
| MDK | daniels: heh | 02:38 |
| * gpd is reminded of the 1st person shooter MDK | 02:38 | |
| trenka | daniels: I'll say you all I think about it when you back :) | 02:39 |
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| daniels | trenka: heh | 02:41 |
| CraHan | i installed minimo and removed it again via the application manager, but the amount shown next to installed applications stays the same | 02:50 |
| CraHan | as if the space isn't freed up again | 02:51 |
| CraHan | anything special you have to to reclaim those 12MB? | 02:52 |
| gpd | CraHan: do you have xterm available? | 02:52 |
| CraHan | yeah | 02:52 |
| gpd | dpkg -l |grep minimo # to see if it is still installed? | 02:53 |
| CraHan | talking to you via irssi ;) | 02:53 |
| CraHan | ok hang on | 02:53 |
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| CraHan | shows 1 line | 02:55 |
| CraHan | rc minimo and a version nr | 02:56 |
| Jaffa | Damn. I think I've hit a libfakeroot limitation: "libfakeroot: connect: Cannot assign requested address" (when building Debian's tcl8.4 deb) | 02:56 |
| gpd | dpkg --purge minimo # would remove the rc | 02:56 |
| CraHan | not that easy typing on the n770 in a terminal ;) | 02:56 |
| gpd | but unlikely to be 12Mb ? | 02:56 |
| CraHan | ok lemme try that | 02:56 |
| gpd | CraHan: could always ssh into the box -- :) | 02:57 |
| CraHan | as root right? | 02:57 |
| CraHan | true ;) | 02:57 |
| gpd | fraid so -- which might be tricky unless you are dev | 02:57 |
| gpd | so ssh root@yourbox is what i do | 02:57 |
| CraHan | i enabled sudo | 02:57 |
| CraHan | so sudo su works | 02:57 |
| gpd | hmm... how do you do that? | 02:58 |
| CraHan | great stuff worked | 02:58 |
| gpd | sorry user user is not allowed to execute '/bin/su' as root --- | 02:59 |
| CraHan | well first ssh'd into localhost as root | 02:59 |
| CraHan | then set a pass for user | 02:59 |
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| CraHan | and added a line to /etc/sudors | 02:59 |
| gpd | visudo? | 02:59 |
| CraHan | to allow the user to execute su using sudo | 03:00 |
| gpd | i see -- far too simple -- i was under the impression that it was all very tricky | 03:00 |
| gpd | people mentioning sudo gainroot and dev images and the like | 03:00 |
| CraHan | i used plaun echo '' >> ... | 03:00 |
| CraHan | pain | 03:00 |
| CraHan | erhm | 03:00 |
| gpd | plain :) | 03:00 |
| gpd | got it | 03:00 |
| CraHan | plain | 03:00 |
| CraHan | yah | 03:00 |
| CraHan | there should be a page about it on the wiki | 03:01 |
| gpd | you expect me to read something? bah | 03:01 |
| CraHan | lol | 03:01 |
| CraHan | point taken | 03:01 |
| gpd | stagger blindly around-- that is my preferred method! | 03:01 |
| CraHan | hehe | 03:02 |
| CraHan | anyway bedtime now | 03:02 |
| CraHan | thx for the help | 03:02 |
| * gpd continues to scan microarrays --- :( bye | 03:02 | |
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| gpd | anyone use ampache / jinzora / phpMp - this mpd stuff looks just what i need at home for audio trickery | 03:24 |
| Jaffa | nope | 03:25 |
| gpd | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToAudioRemoteWithMpd | 03:25 |
| myren | ugg mpd | 03:41 |
| myren | i use it for my wifi audio network | 03:41 |
| myren | its a piece of shit | 03:41 |
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| gpd | how so? | 03:42 |
| myren | i despise how its a daemon program that has to have the entire music db mapped out | 03:42 |
| myren | i have all sorts of different sources i want to use and alternate between and mpd just sucks ass if you have anything except a single hard drive with all your music | 03:42 |
| gpd | but as and end user - does it perform as expected? | 03:43 |
| myren | yes it works just fine | 03:43 |
| * gpd has a single hard drive with all his music :) | 03:43 | |
| myren | i just really really wish mpd clients could stream music to the mpd server | 03:43 |
| gpd | which client do you use? | 03:43 |
| gpd | jinzora and ampache both looks quite well maintained at least | 03:44 |
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| * Jaffa beds. | 03:47 | |
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| * gpd successfully runs unison on N800 | 04:16 | |
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| * gpd successfully runs wget on N800 -- these mistral packages with no GUI seem ok :) | 04:26 | |
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| korc_ | hello everybody, somebody could help me with a problem? , I installed scratchbox for debian, and sdk of nokia, but appears to me the following message: The following packages have unmet dependencies: maemo-explicit: Depends: libosso-abook-dev but it is not going to be installed | 04:50 |
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| korc_ | I try to install libosso-abook-dev and obtain the following message, libosso-abook-dev: Depends: pkg-config (>= 0.14.0) but it is not installable? is strange, because my version is compatilble: pkg-config --version = 0.15.0 | 05:36 |
| gpd | korc_: are you having problems installing the scratchbox debs - or after that? | 05:37 |
| korc_ | gpd, after ..., I followed the following instructions: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/INSTALL.txt | 05:39 |
| korc_ | gpd, you have some idea how to fix it? it is is what I have found http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/14191 | 05:45 |
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| gpd | korc_: not sure -- :/ | 06:13 |
| gpd | what does this give you: | 06:13 |
| gpd | dpkg -l |grep -c scratchbox | 06:13 |
| korc_ | gpd, dpkg -l |grep -c scratchbox = 0 | 06:14 |
| gpd | outside of scratchbox? | 06:14 |
| korc_ | into of scratchbox | 06:15 |
| gpd | no -- try outside -- should give you 9 | 06:15 |
| korc_ | outside = 15 | 06:15 |
| gpd | scratchbox-devkit-debian - do you have that one? | 06:15 |
| gpd | what is your desktop distro - sarge? | 06:16 |
| korc_ | i'm using debian sid | 06:16 |
| korc_ | yes, i do have scratchbox-devkit-debian installed, version = 1.0.6 | 06:17 |
| gpd | i am trying this; [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > fakeroot apt-cache search libosso-abook-dev | 06:17 |
| gpd | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > fakeroot apt-get install libosso-abook-dev | 06:17 |
| gpd | Setting up libosso-abook-dev (1.20061207) ... | 06:18 |
| gpd | seems to work for me... | 06:18 |
| gpd | not sure what you have done there :( | 06:18 |
| korc_ | libosso-abook-dev: Depends: pkg-config (>= 0.14.0) but it is not installable | 06:18 |
| korc_ | and others | 06:18 |
| gpd | it might just be because you are running sid!? | 06:18 |
| gpd | but that isn't very good answer :( | 06:19 |
| gpd | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache show pkg-config | 06:19 |
| gpd | Version: 0.15.0+virtual1 | 06:20 |
| gpd | Description: pkg-config from Scratchbox | 06:20 |
| korc_ | its posible... | 06:20 |
| korc_ | but, its command, not show an out | 06:21 |
| gpd | gpd@beasty:~$ dpkg -S pkg-config | 06:21 |
| gpd | scratchbox-core: /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config | 06:21 |
| gpd | how did you add it? - using deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ ./ | 06:22 |
| gpd | not sure where you got 15 packages from!? | 06:22 |
| gpd | wait -- all the toolchains | 06:23 |
| korc_ | yes i added this repository | 06:24 |
| gpd | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache show libosso-abook-dev | 06:24 |
| gpd | - don't know dude :( -- sorry | 06:25 |
| korc_ | Package: libosso-abook-dev | 06:25 |
| korc_ | Source: osso-addressbook | 06:25 |
| korc_ | Version: 1.20061207 | 06:25 |
| korc_ | Priority: optional | 06:25 |
| gpd | s[sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > which pkg-config | 06:26 |
| gpd | /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config | 06:26 |
| korc_ | it's exist: scratchbox-core: /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config | 06:26 |
| korc_ | but whish pkg-config = bash: wish: command not found | 06:26 |
| gpd | wish? which? -- you mean which... ? | 06:27 |
| korc_ | ups... wish... | 06:27 |
| korc_ | excuse me, | 06:27 |
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| gpd | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > which pkg-config | 06:28 |
| gpd | /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config | 06:28 |
| korc_ | /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config | 06:28 |
| korc_ | yes | 06:28 |
| korc_ | why dpkg -S pkg-config, does not find the file | 06:30 |
| korc_ | gpd, I will try to install everything again, later tell you, thanks for your help... | 06:36 |
| s-ndh-c | someone still awake? | 06:37 |
| s-ndh-c | something went wrong during apt-get update and now the packagemanager application just displays a tooltip saying operation failed | 06:39 |
| s-ndh-c | and i cant edit the repositorys anymore | 06:41 |
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| gpd | wow -- i can play bbc radio4 comedy streams in media player! how cool is that | 07:29 |
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| s-ndh-c | damn i screwed the packagemanager | 07:34 |
| s-ndh-c | i think i have to reflash | 07:34 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 07:34 |
| gpd | s-ndh-c: no ssh ? | 07:34 |
| gpd | s-ndh-c: did you disable all your extra repositories? | 07:35 |
| s-ndh-c | gpd: no i cant | 07:35 |
| s-ndh-c | it allways displays operation failed | 07:35 |
| gpd | on starting application manager?> -- ouch | 07:35 |
| s-ndh-c | only thing that works is list installed applications | 07:35 |
| s-ndh-c | all other options: operation failed | 07:36 |
| gpd | and you don't have ssh installed - so you are probably out of luck | 07:36 |
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| cesman | hello heloo | 07:37 |
| * cesman has a n800 in his hot little hands | 07:38 | |
| gpd | nice nice | 07:38 |
| cesman | yes, playing w/ it now | 07:39 |
| s-ndh-c | the ui looks much nicer | 07:39 |
| s-ndh-c | but did only see screenshots yet | 07:39 |
| cesman | howdy, I cannot seem to find instructions for install canola | 07:39 |
| cesman | anyone got a link? | 07:39 |
| s-ndh-c | didnt get my hand on any of these yet | 07:39 |
| s-ndh-c | and i hope reflashing wont fry my 770 | 07:40 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 07:40 |
| s-ndh-c | is there somehack to implement somekind of lowlevel backup flashing method? | 07:40 |
| s-ndh-c | if something goes wrong and doesnt accept the new image via usb anymore | 07:41 |
| cesman | will media streamer playback mpeg2? | 07:41 |
| gpd | cesman: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 07:41 |
| cesman | thanks | 07:42 |
| cesman | page is certainly taking it's tie loading | 07:45 |
| cesman | must know how much I want to read it ;) | 07:45 |
| gpd | hmm -- i just got an internal server error -- must be a problem | 07:46 |
| gpd | was fine a minute ago | 07:46 |
| cesman | just came up | 07:46 |
| gpd | http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/repository/dists/ <- canola only has mistral -- probably won't work | 07:47 |
| * gpd attempts to get mpd working | 07:47 | |
| Milhouse | canola/n800 details => http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/2007/01/07/the-nokia-n800-is-out-what-about-canola-on-it | 07:48 |
| cesman | thanks | 07:48 |
| s-ndh-c | god thx it rebooted normaly | 07:48 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 07:48 |
| s-ndh-c | i fried my zaurus once that was bretty bad, since then iam allways afraid of firmware upgrades | 07:49 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 07:49 |
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| Milhouse | maemo bugzilla running like a dog for anyone else? | 08:15 |
| gpd | mpd with phpmp is genius! love it | 08:20 |
| gpd | glurp might be worth a try - but the phpmp is fine for now | 08:21 |
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| s-ndh-c | hm | 08:32 |
| s-ndh-c | where am i supposed to download dropbear? | 08:32 |
| s-ndh-c | the download url mentioned in the wiki is not availible | 08:32 |
| Milhouse | try openssh | 08:35 |
| Milhouse | apt-get install ssh | 08:35 |
| * gpd contemplates grabbing large chunks of google maps for local area as png for offline browsing of streets | 08:48 | |
| * gpd wonders if there is a mashup or similar for this purpose | 08:49 | |
| gpd | hmm clearly contra to terms of service :( | 08:52 |
| s-ndh-c | Milhouse: thx that worked | 09:03 |
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| Milhouse | np | 09:12 |
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| Disconnect | gpd: maemo mapper has a buddy-app for windows to do that, or maemo mapper itself can | 09:18 |
| Milhouse | Anyone able to check https://maemo.org/bugzilla/ ? it's really slow here, not sure if it's my connection or maemo.org's end | 09:18 |
| gpd | Disconnect: sweet, Milhouse: front page is fine here atm - was crap y'day | 09:19 |
| Milhouse | k must be my end :( | 09:20 |
| Milhouse | thanks disconnet | 09:20 |
| Milhouse | disconnect | 09:20 |
| Disconnect | default grab is the current map view | 09:20 |
| Milhouse | er, gpd | 09:20 |
| gpd | anyone tested maemo mapper with bora? no sign of it on 2k7tested | 09:22 |
| Disconnect | gpd: i got a ver emailed to me that worked. | 09:24 |
| Milhouse | have a look here - haven't followed it myself: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3957 | 09:24 |
| Disconnect | pass me an email and i'll send it along before i go to bed | 09:24 |
| gpd | Disconnect: in pm | 09:25 |
| Disconnect | sent | 09:25 |
| gpd | many thanks | 09:25 |
| * Disconnect tested it (with the rocking trek m3 that works indoors :) ..) and it lit right up, worked fine. | 09:25 | |
| Disconnect | except for using POI .. got a bunch of marks (in csv and/or gpx) but i can't figure out how to get them imported | 09:26 |
| Disconnect | but i'll look at that tomorrow .. its 2;30 now, going to bed | 09:26 |
| Milhouse | gnuite hasn't got a N800, check post #23 in the above thread link | 09:26 |
| gpd | installed... testing... | 09:26 |
| Disconnect | even used the maps i had on the memory card from the 770 | 09:28 |
| gpd | well i get a mapper settings menu | 09:28 |
| gpd | but click cancel and it quits | 09:29 |
| Disconnect | so click ok instead | 09:29 |
| gpd | this may be normal behaviour with no bt gps... | 09:29 |
| Disconnect | no, with no bt gps it says "no mac entered, gps disabled" | 09:29 |
| gpd | gps disabled | 09:29 |
| Disconnect | off now, have a good one :) | 09:29 |
| * cesman installs mplayer | 09:30 | |
| gpd | cheers -- see ya | 09:30 |
| gpd | i think i've had enough too -- bye all | 09:30 |
| Milhouse | cya | 09:30 |
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| gpd | [map repository setup -- map loaded... sweet... ] | 09:34 |
| keesj | Morning | 09:43 |
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| s-ndh-c | should i change the distribution thing in repository list? i flashed the second release of 2006 internettable os | 09:48 |
| s-ndh-c | wouldn that now be sciroco isntead of mistral? | 09:49 |
| Milhouse | scirocco, yes | 09:52 |
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| keesj | Jaffa, are you there? | 09:59 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: yeah, but just popping in briefly with Jaffa Junior before breakfast | 10:09 |
| keesj | I am trying mud , where do I need to put the mud config? | 10:09 |
| Jaffa | You don't need one if you keep the same structure, otherwise at the moment I think it just looks in the current directory | 10:10 |
| Jaffa | I need to hide the warning message if it wasn't specified. | 10:11 |
| Jaffa | keesj: at the moment there's a problem with deep recursion of Debian-based dependencies, however tarball ones seem to be working fine (although there's no way of specifying build dependencies for them yet) | 10:12 |
| keesj | I have some more notes but I would at least like to be able to buildl netcat or siiliar | 10:12 |
| keesj | similar | 10:13 |
| Jaffa | keesj: there's a netcat package from upstream already there, I'd suggest building that first `mud build netcat' should Just Work, and then tweaking it for something similar. | 10:13 |
| keesj | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/tmp/mud-builder/trunk] > ./mud build netcat | 10:13 |
| keesj | Build dir not set. | 10:13 |
| keesj | at /home/keesj/tmp/mud-builder/trunk/mud line 148 | 10:13 |
| Jaffa | OK, remove your config | 10:14 |
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| keesj | idem | 10:14 |
| Jaffa | keesj: alternatively add 'BUILD_DIR = ....' in your config file. | 10:15 |
| keesj | I have no hurry , take it easy | 10:15 |
| * Jaffa is being called for food now, som BBL | 10:15 | |
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| Guardian | morning all | 10:57 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: I've just done some basic getting started documentation, but can't finish the `Creating a package' quick start at the moment, I'm afraid. | 11:31 |
| keesj | where can I find this doc? | 11:32 |
| keesj | also I already have a few note , shall I mail them to you | 11:33 |
| keesj | or do you prefer the mailing list or something else? | 11:33 |
| keesj | did you ever run gentoo? | 11:33 |
| Jaffa | keesj: oh yeah ;-) http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/#gettingstarted | 11:36 |
| Jaffa | I think there's a mailing list through garage. | 11:36 |
| Jaffa | keesj: no, but I've heard of emerge | 11:37 |
| keesj | there are some tricks that can also be used for mud | 11:37 |
| Jaffa | keesj: hang on, I'll create a mailing list | 11:37 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: ah, damn - it says it'll take 6-24 hours to activate. | 11:38 |
| keesj | oke:) | 11:38 |
| Jaffa | keesj: https://garage.maemo.org/mail/?group_id=63 - I'm helping my Dad do some DIY this morning/early afternoon so I won't have a chance to look over anything before later today anyway. So I'd suggest sitting on your notes until the mailing list's created. | 11:39 |
| * Jaffa appreciates your early adopter status, though! | 11:39 | |
| keesj | perl will be hard for me , my perl experience really dates from the pre mod_perl ages. So it hope I will be a good "end user" | 11:41 |
| * Jaffa can see himself moving it from Perl to, say, Python at some point anyway to improve my Python skills. | 11:41 | |
| keesj | I would also like to learn python and it's the platform choice of maemo | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | Indeed | 11:42 |
| keesj | I have fallen in love with ruby but I understand not everybody can share my love | 11:43 |
| keesj | so python will do | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | I did get "Programming Ruby: A Pragmatic Programmer's Guide" for Christmas to force me to learn it ;-) | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | But there's no Ruby in Scratchbox and I want it to run with minimum dependencies. | 11:43 |
| keesj | I created a package for ruby | 11:44 |
| keesj | once mud is self hosting there will be no problem | 11:44 |
| keesj | mud build mud | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | true :) | 11:44 |
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| Jaffa | Right. AFK. | 11:45 |
| part | keesj: the device doesn't have python, and now the sdk doesn't have python either, I wouldn't say that it's the maemo scripting language, at least not yet | 11:45 |
| keesj | part are you talking about 3.0? | 11:46 |
| part | yes | 11:46 |
| part | 2.x sdk does include python | 11:47 |
| keesj | part, but are you trying to say that ruby might be the plaftorm choice? | 11:48 |
| keesj | I bet my money on mono | 11:48 |
| part | keesj: no, I'm not saying that it would be ruby | 11:49 |
| part | keesj: and I'm hoping it won't be mono | 11:49 |
| keesj | so your saying that you want/expect python to be in 3.0 | 11:50 |
| part | uh, mine saying? | 11:50 |
| part | what I'm saying is that python is not in 3.0 | 11:51 |
| keesj | I sometimes have trouble understanding others. | 11:51 |
| part | if python is included in the device, then it makes sense to have it in the sdk too | 11:54 |
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| keesj | and is lua in 3.0? | 11:56 |
| c0ffee | moin | 12:01 |
| tko | see list of packages: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/armel/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_3.0_armel.full | 12:03 |
| part | tko: thanks :) | 12:05 |
| part | keesj: if it's not in the device, it's usually not in 3.0 either | 12:06 |
| jose__ | hi all, beginner question... I just installed the 3.0 sdk, and when i start the maemo GUI in the X window, the only programs that i can see are contacts, control panel and maemopad. How can i get other prpgrams in the GUI? | 12:06 |
| part | jose__: it's not an emulator for the system, and it doesn't include all the device software | 12:08 |
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| jose__ | thanks part, so is it possible to install some of the device sw using apt-get or they wouldn work? | 12:09 |
| c0ffee | jose__, when you install another program to your scratchbox, it will appear in the menu at the right place and you can execute it | 12:09 |
| c0ffee | jose__, for some programs the sources and binaries are available, but by far not all | 12:09 |
| jose__ | ok | 12:10 |
| part | jose__: as I said, it's not meant for emulating the device. Most of what you will be able to install from the repositories is already there | 12:10 |
| jose__ | ok, thanks | 12:11 |
| keesj | part, I don't have the device | 12:13 |
| part | keesj: oh, I thought you would've had it | 12:13 |
| keesj | I would not be asking those questions If I had | 12:13 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:45 |
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| JussiP | Strange. The feed reader on my 770 refuses to start. | 12:56 |
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| sbaturzio | paci: Ciao! ;-) | 13:00 |
| paci | ciao | 13:01 |
| * sbaturzio is away: back soon...reboot.... | 13:05 | |
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| seebs | I have a dumb question about scratchbox. When I set it up, it mounted a number of things in /scratchbox/users/seebs. These didn't survive a reboot of the host. How do I get them back? | 13:32 |
| seebs | Oh! Doh. | 13:32 |
| seebs | sbox_mount_all looks very promising. | 13:32 |
| c0ffee | /scratchbox/sbox_ctl start | 13:33 |
| c0ffee | as root | 13:33 |
| keesj | on my system it's a init.d script /etc/init.d/scratchbox start as root | 13:33 |
| seebs | Hmm. I don't have the init.d script, although I suppose I could add it. | 13:34 |
| keesj | if you start it by hand don't forger to stop it again , on my system not stopping sb make the system fail to shutdown properly because the mounted file system still are in use | 13:34 |
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| compukid | I'm using a nokia770 (2.1 release) and the website isc.sans.org crashes opera... Is this reproducable? | 13:37 |
| sbaturzio | Help! Paci's n800 doesn't turn on anymore...is there a way to perform an hard reset? | 13:40 |
| compukid | have you tried removing the battery? | 13:40 |
| seebs | Hmm. I don't know of one, but "remove battery" seems to do for most things. | 13:40 |
| paci | yeah, I tried, several times, without luck | 13:41 |
| paci | it keeps reboot, and rebooting | 13:41 |
| compukid | seems like the same issue as with the 770 | 13:41 |
| paci | compukid: and the solution was ... ? | 13:42 |
| compukid | with the 770 you can flash it again and it will start working again | 13:42 |
| paci | I also tried to flash it again, several times, but the problem do not disappear | 13:43 |
| seebs | Sounds like failed hardware. | 13:43 |
| seebs | Do you have SD cards in it? If so, have you removed them? | 13:43 |
| paci | yes, I tried to flash it with the SD in, and out too | 13:43 |
| seebs | I just figured maybe the SD card had some data that was triggering a bug. | 13:44 |
| seebs | Have you tried alternative images, like the SDK rootfs? | 13:44 |
| paci | seebs: no, however, I'm just downloading it too to give a try | 13:44 |
| keesj | compukid, http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/screenshot00.png | 13:46 |
| tko | rebooting should fix most problems, reflashing the whole image should fix all but hardware problems.. if after reflashing, with charged battery and no sd-cards installed, it's still in reboot loop you should contact nokia | 13:46 |
| compukid | keesj, tnx | 13:47 |
| tko | end users should never ever need to do more than remove the battery (even that is bad) - for hackers there's the flasher | 13:47 |
| keesj | I once had to remove the battery to fix a problem with the sd card being mounted read-only | 13:48 |
| compukid | keesj, the website is working now (after rebooting the device to freeup some memory) | 13:51 |
| * sbaturzio is away: Lunch time... | 13:56 | |
| seebs | So, I did a trivial gstreamer app, with no hints of any osso or dbus code, and it Just Worked. I assume I shouldn't count on that... | 13:59 |
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| s-ndh-c | damn i broke something, dpkg reports syntax error in /var/li/dpkg/status | 14:08 |
| s-ndh-c | :( | 14:08 |
| pahartik | compukid: at least here document at "http//isc.sans.org/" did not break Opera on Maemo 2.1 | 14:10 |
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| seebs | Blar! The debian package system is beautiful, but it sure is a lot of work for the trivial case of "please put these six files on the system". | 14:12 |
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| tko | gah, this is just stupid. how the hell could I possibly have misplaced a bike tire repair kit or three :-? | 14:33 |
| * sbaturzio is back (gone 00:36:49) | 14:33 | |
| _matthias_ | how good is my chance to get a fluxbox running on my nokia 770 | 14:35 |
| _matthias_ | anyone thought of this | 14:35 |
| suihkulokki | _matthias_: it's trivial, unless you want to use the included propiertary applications in fluxbox | 14:36 |
| _matthias_ | suihkulokki i would not really need them | 14:37 |
| tko | _matthias_, should be a no-brainer to get it running (see /etc/osso-af-init/matchbox-window-manager* IIRC) but the system will probably behave strangely | 14:37 |
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| _matthias_ | iÂd just lie to use an sdk image and setup a real oss enviornment | 14:37 |
| _matthias_ | lets say fluxbox with minimo browser ssh xterm and sylpheed perhaps | 14:38 |
| _matthias_ | tko: what i am worring most is getting a decent input alternative | 14:39 |
| _matthias_ | i dont want to carry ma su-8w all the time | 14:39 |
| suihkulokki | _matthias_: matchbox-keyboard | 14:40 |
| _matthias_ | and what i worry about to is the wifi / bt hardware | 14:40 |
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| suihkulokki | _matthias_: wifi/bt drivers are on initfs | 14:40 |
| _matthias_ | i-m not really sure if i can enable wifi just as on every other linux machine with iwutils or wpa-supplicant | 14:40 |
| _matthias_ | perfectually | 14:40 |
| suihkulokki | iwtools yes, wpa-supplicant not sure | 14:42 |
| _matthias_ | jah i mean if iwtools are available wpa-supplicant is also an option | 14:42 |
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| koos | My gdb in sb107 w/ bora gives 'Don't know how to run. Try "help target".'. What is wrong? | 14:44 |
| koos | (its the auto generated SDK_X86 target in sb) | 14:44 |
| tko | koos, please file a bug | 14:44 |
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| _matthias_ | and i am still searching for a dt-7 | 14:45 |
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| _matthias_ | does a desk stand come with the 800 .. perhaps this is argument enough for my girl to allow me to by a new device ;-) | 14:45 |
| seebs | It has a built-in one. | 14:45 |
| koos | tko: I could do that but first want to check if this is seen before (and solved) so I can get on w/ my work | 14:45 |
| tko | koos, you could try apt-get install gdb and then SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/gdb /usr/bin/gdb -- if my guess about someone screwing up the gdb is correct | 14:46 |
| seebs | There's a flippy thing on the bottom. | 14:46 |
| _matthias_ | seebs: damn | 14:46 |
| seebs | I like it way better than the 770. | 14:46 |
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| seebs | Is there any way to extract the "removable" card from an N800 that doesn't involve pliers? | 14:47 |
| seebs | I don't think I've ever seen anyone with small enough fingers to extract it by hand. | 14:47 |
| Milhouse | seebs: internal or external? | 14:48 |
| Milhouse | have you got a mini card stuck in your external slot? | 14:48 |
| seebs | The "external" one -- the one that's under the flap under the stand, not the one by the battery. | 14:48 |
| seebs | No, it's full size. | 14:48 |
| koos | tko: odd, the apt-get indeed installed something (that doesn't look so standard debian to me :) | 14:48 |
| Milhouse | it should have a ridge at the top - use your fingernail to pop it out | 14:48 |
| seebs | I can remove the card with pliers, quite easily, but there's under 1mm of card extending past the case. | 14:48 |
| seebs | Ah-HAH! It does. It was so close in that I couldn't see that. Thanks! | 14:49 |
| Milhouse | np :) | 14:49 |
| koos | Hmm, I now get a 'Cannot exec /bin/sh: No such file or directory.' error. 'ln -s /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh /bin/sh' fixes this, but is my installation screwed? | 14:51 |
| seebs | First thing I'd do is make sure you've got all the filesystems mounted. | 14:53 |
| seebs | It sounds like there's a missing loopback mount or something. | 14:53 |
| koos | seebs:indeed, /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core doesn't do that .. | 14:54 |
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| guerby | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=941 | 14:59 |
| guerby | could some brave soul try instructions in the second comment? WARNING: you'll have to remove the battery | 15:00 |
| seebs | Sure, why not! | 15:03 |
| seebs | I am actually at a point where I am very shortly going to have to reflash anyway to make sure that my instructions for an article are correct. | 15:03 |
| guerby | seebs, if you see the same thing as me, please could you add a confirmation comment as well? thanks | 15:03 |
| suihkulokki | koos: what gives the "cannot exec /bin/sh" ? | 15:04 |
| koen | mount -o user? | 15:04 |
| seebs | BTW, the instructions have at least one error; it's "Soft poweroff", not "soft power off". | 15:05 |
| koos | suihkulokki: gdb, but it seems my mounts are not executed | 15:05 |
| guerby | seebs, mention that as well :) | 15:05 |
| koos | strangely I do recall unmount problems with restarting my PC the other day (fs busy errors) | 15:06 |
| seebs | I don't get any kind of menu when I press or hold down the button. | 15:06 |
| guerby | seebs, you should have the normal "device mode" menu with "lock screen..." ? | 15:06 |
| seebs | Oh! There it is. | 15:06 |
| guerby | seebs, it's a bit slow after reboot | 15:07 |
| seebs | Hmm. Point 4, with screen off, hold button a long time... How long? | 15:08 |
| seebs | It comes back up within a second or so for me. | 15:08 |
| guerby | seebs, yes about a second (a short press will do nothing) | 15:08 |
| seebs | Okay. | 15:08 |
| koos | btw, I always use 'sb-menu' to switch targets, maybe that's not good enough .. | 15:09 |
| seebs | Hmm. I don't get the "now press dpad" thing. It just acts normal. | 15:09 |
| seebs | And I can repeat it pretty often, cycling through soft power off and bringing it back up. | 15:09 |
| guerby | seebs, funny ... do you have a daily alarm set ? | 15:10 |
| seebs | I don't seem to ever get the "now press..." stuff at all. | 15:10 |
| seebs | And no, no alarms. | 15:10 |
| guerby | seebs, if you press on/off you should have the small box on the top right no? | 15:10 |
| guerby | seebs, in light menu / display settings do you have "lock screen and keys" set? | 15:11 |
| seebs | Oh! I don't, no. | 15:11 |
| guerby | s/set/option set/ | 15:11 |
| guerby | seebs, forgot to add that (it's not set by default) | 15:11 |
| guerby | seebs, indeed with the new soft power off menu, it's not that useful | 15:11 |
| guerby | to have this one set | 15:11 |
| guerby | (simple workaround for me) | 15:12 |
| seebs | Okay, now I can confirm it. | 15:12 |
| seebs | Yuppers! My N800 is broken. | 15:12 |
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| seebs | Heh. | 15:12 |
| seebs | MY LAWYER WILL BURY YOU ON A COURT!!! :P | 15:13 |
| guerby | seebs, I found no way to get the battery out without using a tool | 15:13 |
| guerby | seebs, aie aie | 15:13 |
| tko | guerby, umm, open cover, tap the backside of the device against your palm -> battery falls into your palm. worksforme every time | 15:14 |
| guerby | tko, thanks! | 15:14 |
| tko | ...then again, I've had practice :) | 15:14 |
| seebs | tko, didn't work for me, and I even thought of it! Maybe I didn't tap hard enough. | 15:14 |
| seebs | Blar. I have no bugzilla login. | 15:15 |
| tko | I just try to get the outermost edge to fall out, not the connector side | 15:15 |
| seebs | That was what I tried, but I didn't do it very well. I'm lame! | 15:16 |
| tko | like I said, I've had practice since the first 770 prototypes, so yeah.. =) | 15:16 |
| seebs | I'm loving the N800. I sorta wish it had something to cover the screen, but it's otherwise amazing. | 15:17 |
| seebs | The 770 was neat, but it never quite made it past "well, I guess I can keep some reference materials on it" for me. | 15:17 |
| seebs | The extra memory makes ALL the difference. | 15:17 |
| guerby | seebs, I've added a comment for the "lock screen option". If you leave it unset and put the soft power off option at the top, you have a full N770 cover effect | 15:17 |
| seebs | Blar. The one downside of greylisting; takes forever to get registration email. | 15:18 |
| guerby | seebs, and processor, and my guess is that the touchscreen is more sensitive: I can use the thumbkb and sketch feels much more accurate on N800 than on N770 | 15:18 |
| seebs | Huh, haven't tried the thumbkb. | 15:18 |
| seebs | Processor helps some, but I never minded the processor on the 770. | 15:18 |
| guerby | I couldn't use efficiently the thumkb on the N770 | 15:18 |
| guerby | even with sensitivity maxed | 15:18 |
| seebs | I'm developing a trivial webcam for the N800, I have developerWorks buying articles about it. | 15:18 |
| seebs | Woot! | 15:18 |
| guerby | seebs, what's the chipset for the webcam? | 15:19 |
| seebs | No clue. | 15:19 |
| seebs | It Just Works with gstreamer/video4linux. | 15:19 |
| seebs | I actually have that part working. Now I just need to wrestle with the installer to make it so you can launch the app from an icon and such. | 15:19 |
| seebs | Oh, and think of a cheap way to implement "upload these bits to a web server". | 15:19 |
| tko | seebs, a simple 'save the image to jpeg' would be nice too :) | 15:20 |
| seebs | I have that. | 15:20 |
| seebs | The problem is that "save to jpeg on local flash" strikes me as a very bad use of the theoretically finite limit on flash writes. | 15:20 |
| seebs | Also, more fun to have it upload elsewhere. | 15:21 |
| seebs | If I can convince them I need three columns, not just two, I'll have enough space to introduce a trivial configuration file that sets where to send/save. | 15:21 |
| tko | :) | 15:21 |
| seebs | I'm pretty much giving an entire column to the gstreamer stuff. I could have made it shorter, except the maemo repository version of gstreamer plugins-good completely omits the JPEG encoder. | 15:22 |
| seebs | Still, after writing once about crossdev for the Zaurus, scratchbox ins my friend. | 15:22 |
| seebs | ... That sentence is ungrammatical, and I am too lazy to fix it. | 15:22 |
| tko | yeah, fer was complaining about the jpeg encoder as well :-/ | 15:23 |
| seebs | It's surprisingly hard to fix cleanly, because a naive effort at creating a clean package of plugins-good is going to clash. | 15:24 |
| seebs | I went with the brute force solution of "copy just this one file over", but that's crazy. | 15:24 |
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| s-ndh-c | is it possible to install software to the mmc card too? | 15:31 |
| keesj | s-ndh-c, not by default on 770 because it's a file system that does not support symlinks or exec flags , but it is even possible to boot from mmc | 15:32 |
| jonek | hi | 15:33 |
| seebs | You know what I really want? I want an option to format the "internal" card to ext3fs instead of FAT32. | 15:33 |
| s-ndh-c | keesj: sounds cool | 15:33 |
| jonek | keesj: can you point me to a highlevel documentation about how a Java AWT-peer implementation works? (any related info is welcome!) | 15:36 |
| keesj | jonek, you have to search for ToolKit that is the "real" peer | 15:37 |
| keesj | this is one of the first links on google http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdlawt/ | 15:38 |
| jonek | keesj: I searched for "java awt native peer gtk" but there seems to be no HowTo like info available | 15:38 |
| keesj | wow the classpath project even has a cairo based peer, I don't think that is's compatible | 15:45 |
| jonek | keesj: compatible to what? | 15:46 |
| keesj | to the sun peer interface | 15:47 |
| keesj | jonek wat about this http://gnu.wildebeest.org/diary/index.php?p=177 | 15:48 |
| jonek | keesj: what exactly is the "sun peer interface"? | 15:49 |
| keesj | jonek, not all the classes in java are purely written in java , they have native calls | 15:49 |
| jonek | keesj: I know that | 15:50 |
| keesj | those methods are grouped here http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/awt/Toolkit.html | 15:51 |
| jonek | keesj: and I understand that AWT can be either implemented by a native toolkit like GTK (map AWT widgets to native widgets) or by letting AWT draw its own widgets in some canvas | 15:51 |
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| jonek | keesy: what I'm looking for is a document that describes the necessary steps who to do the first. | 15:54 |
| keesj | but do you want to run midp or awt? | 15:57 |
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| jonek | keesj: java phoneME advanced MR2 contains a GTK peer implementation. https://phoneme.dev.java.net/source/browse/phoneme/components/cdc/trunk/src/share/personal/classes/awt/peer_based/sun/awt/gtk/ but it is outdated and currently does not compile. | 15:57 |
| kender | hello | 15:57 |
| jonek | keesj: at first awt. | 15:58 |
| keesj | jonek, you have completely lost me. this would be a non pure java implementation, I don't think you need full awt for running midp | 15:59 |
| keesj | how about the midpath thing is that what you are searching for http://midpath.thenesis.org/en/Design | 16:00 |
| jonek | keesj: midp for phoneME advanced is actively worked on by SUN | 16:00 |
| keesj | alright I guess I first would need to understand phoneME better | 16:03 |
| keesj | All I can say it that there are multiple awt toolkit implemetation that alreadt exits. They don't require the source of the jvm to work since it's possible to start them with a command line option | 16:04 |
| jonek | keesj: but it is not ready yet. I would like to be able to write programs for the 770 in Java that use the GTK native toolkit (preferably hildonized) and I'm evaluating phoneME advanced instead of jamVM and GNUClasspath for that. running MIDP programms (I guess that are mobile phone apps e.g. games) is not my first goal. | 16:05 |
| keesj | why not take this toolkit ttp://www.eteks.com/pja/en/ and implement a screen renderer for this? | 16:05 |
| keesj | ok I understand better now. but not many people use awt , there are no widgets like tree etc | 16:08 |
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| jonek | keesj: phoneME advanced has a JIT an small footprint - it should fit the 770 system very well and be fast. phoneME advanced implements the CDC with its three profiles (Foundation, Personal Basis, Personal). the last two support GUI through AWT.) | 16:12 |
| keesj | that sounds fair | 16:12 |
| jonek | MIDP as I understand is a concept from CLDC | 16:13 |
| glass | personal on 770 would be intresting | 16:13 |
| jonek | SUN is working in phoneME advanced MR2 towards providing MIDP for CDC, too | 16:13 |
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| keesj | hmm basic already contains Graphics2d | 16:17 |
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| keesj | I don't even see Widgets in the personal basic profile specs JSR-129 | 16:19 |
| keesj | are they in Foundation or something? | 16:20 |
| jonek | glass: see http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?forumID=100&threadID=21591&messageID=192807#192807 | 16:20 |
| jonek | keesj: I was wondering about that, too! | 16:20 |
| shackan | to any nokia people in here, is spamming on the list requests to enter the Program actually worth anything or just an annoyance for you ? | 16:21 |
| jonek | keesj: there is a GTK peer implementation but the API DOC only lists the basic AWT classes. I found no API DOC for any special toolkit implementation. | 16:21 |
| lle2 | shackan: I find them annoying, but that's just my personal opinion | 16:22 |
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| jonek | glass: sorry, that was the wrong message. I meant http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=21754&tstart=0 | 16:23 |
| shackan | lle2, right, but right now it seems the only way to get the word out if you haven't hacked on a 770 already | 16:26 |
| lle2 | shackan: true, I think the whole thing should've been handled differently :) | 16:26 |
| keesj | jonek, getting java on the 770 is not my top priority(by far). I am willing to help find out such stuff but I will not spend to much time on it | 16:26 |
| keesj | (I prefer to spend my time trying to get xmoto running better for the moment) but even that did not happen in the last week | 16:27 |
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| keesj | I will try to download the source so I can have a look . | 16:28 |
| shackan | nobody's working to run phoneME on 800 ? :) | 16:29 |
| keesj | who is this nobody's guy, he is doing a lot these day's | 16:30 |
| lle2 | shackan: and besides, if you do really interesting stuff and make sure someone at nokia is aware of it, getting a tablet is not going to be a problem, whether you get one as part of this dev device program or not | 16:30 |
| jonek | keesj: :) ok, sorry if I was a apin in you neck. | 16:31 |
| keesj | jonek sorry, I don't understand | 16:32 |
| glass | jonek: gotta check that stuff when i'm sober | 16:33 |
| c0ffee | hum hum | 16:33 |
| c0ffee | i wonder why all the nice goodies available from maemo svn aren't included in bora | 16:34 |
| c0ffee | like recent gtk, libglade-hildon etc | 16:34 |
| shackan | lle2, all I was looking forward to was a hackable arm device to port my very very very simple kernel to (from x86), be it a N800 or a toaster doesn't matter that much | 16:35 |
| keesj | c0ffee, after hearing from the cairo improvements I am really looking forward to a new version | 16:35 |
| keesj | even if it would mean that gcompriz will just run fine and I will loose money | 16:36 |
| lle2 | shackan: you've looked at things from sparkfun.com for example? | 16:36 |
| lle2 | shackan: while you're at it you could also get this: http://www.amontec.com/jtagkey-tiny.shtml | 16:37 |
| lle2 | shackan: use that with openocd and it's quite reasonable | 16:37 |
| lle2 | shackan: much easier to develop your own kernel with a jtag debugger than just plain serial :) | 16:38 |
| lle2 | shackan: I'm using this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=676 | 16:40 |
| lle2 | but there are other's with a more interesting feature set | 16:40 |
| shackan | awesome | 16:40 |
| daniels | lle2: jtag-to-usb> sweet | 16:41 |
| lle2 | daniels: it is, and actually works, pretty amazing for the price.. | 16:41 |
| shackan | lle2, looks great, thanks (especially the jtag thingie) | 16:42 |
| daniels | god, i'd forgotten how awful outlook web mail was | 16:43 |
| lle2 | shackan: then a get a little oscilloscope/logic analyzer and you're all set, maybe from bitscope (although their pc software sucks bad) | 16:43 |
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| shackan | lle2, ARM7TDMI-S, does it have a MMU ? | 16:43 |
| lle2 | shackan: no | 16:43 |
| shackan | :\ | 16:43 |
| lle2 | shackan: but look at the other boards, there's plenty to choose from | 16:43 |
| * shackan adds to $wishlist | 16:48 | |
| keesj | kender, do you have your 800? | 16:52 |
| kender | keesj, I have it ordered, I think that it'll arrive in Monday | 16:52 |
| keesj | did you already wrote applications for it? | 16:54 |
| kender | keesj, no, but I have some project in mind | 16:54 |
| kender | *projects | 16:54 |
| kender | I want to port Gobby, make some applets with some of mine apps that I use in my pc | 16:55 |
| kender | and, if I can, use the n800 as a tablet for the computer through bluetooth | 16:56 |
| kender | I mean, "painting tablet" | 16:56 |
| kender | do you know what I'm talking about? | 16:56 |
| keesj | Gobby looks nice | 16:56 |
| kender | yes, some times it is very useful | 16:57 |
| kender | *sometimes | 16:57 |
| * Jaffa unDIYs. | 16:59 | |
| c0ffee | jaffa | 17:00 |
| kender | Jaffa, sorry? | 17:02 |
| Jaffa | kender: Do It Yourself, the national pastime of Britain. | 17:02 |
| kender | jeje | 17:03 |
| kender | hehe | 17:03 |
| kender | * | 17:03 |
| kender | yes | 17:03 |
| daniels | i thought that was standing in queues at victoria coach station | 17:03 |
| kender | but, undo it yourselves? | 17:03 |
| daniels | (honestly, i thought about offing myself in that queue) | 17:03 |
| lle2 | daniels: you funny people who grow upside down may well have issues adjusting to the systemic misery that makes UK what it is | 17:06 |
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| daniels | lle2: actually, the weather suits me fine; i hate the heat. i get annoyed every time it get sabove 20C, which is most of the year in aus. | 17:08 |
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| koos | hmppf reinstalled sb, still no workable gdb in sbox-SDK_X86 | 17:08 |
| lle2 | daniels: then you definitely came to work in the right country.. | 17:09 |
| daniels | lle2: yeah, and i ended up taking vitamin d tablets. :\ light is good, just not heat. | 17:10 |
| lle2 | daniels: somebody should start making LCD panels that emit whatever it is that makes sunlight good for people | 17:10 |
| koos | daniels: btw I hear that scandinavia has an extremely mild winter till now | 17:11 |
| daniels | lle2: yeah, the only other thing they need to emit is good food and nightlife, and it'll fix all my problems with hki ;) | 17:11 |
| koos | (here in Hamburg it's also +10 or so) | 17:12 |
| lle2 | daniels: what's wrong with the food? | 17:12 |
| lle2 | nightlife complaint I accept | 17:12 |
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| daniels | koos: yeah, sure. when i landed last feb, it was 41 not long before i left, and -25 the day i landed. i have absolutely no problem with the cold (december was way warm; considered t-shirt and shorts for work the other day), but having 4h of daylight (or none, if it's mega cloudy, which it was) per day is seriously broken. | 17:12 |
| daniels | lle2: yeah, i'm sure you remember vappu ;) the problem with the food seems to be that the ingredients aren't that great. if they're finnish, then they're grown up 60°N. if not, they come from spain or something, and are cheap and shit. | 17:13 |
| lle2 | daniels: where do you buy your stuff? | 17:14 |
| lle2 | because I think it's perfectly possible to eat reasonably ok in hki :) | 17:15 |
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| daniels | lle2: depends. i tried a few various shops in the centre, but they weren't that much better than k-citymarket, so now i just get it from there, usually. | 17:15 |
| lle2 | ok, then the problem is you! go fix yourself. | 17:16 |
| lle2 | daniels: actually I don't remember the vappu? | 17:17 |
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| daniels | lle2: any food stores you recommend? | 17:17 |
| daniels | lle2: oh. the one with paul wheree you got all depressed and ended up going home because all the nightlife sucked. ;) | 17:18 |
| lle2 | daniels: the halls are good for some stuff, and then there's herkku in the stockmann's basement | 17:18 |
| lle2 | daniels: you know hakaniemen halli for example? | 17:19 |
| daniels | lle2: yeah, stockmann isn't too bad, but it's pretty damn expensive | 17:19 |
| daniels | lle2: i went there once, but i didn't manage to find the fresh food section, only fish and some meat? | 17:20 |
| mlpug | whatis sapwood? | 17:20 |
| lle2 | daniels: there's another one near kauppatori | 17:20 |
| daniels | mlpug: it's a gtk 'theme' that deals with sharing pixmap sacross clients to minimise resource usage in the x server | 17:21 |
| daniels | lle2: oh? | 17:21 |
| daniels | lle2: kauppa halli? | 17:21 |
| lle2 | daniels: yeah | 17:22 |
| daniels | or whatever it's called | 17:22 |
| lle2 | but you're right, it can get a bit dreadful with fresh stuff | 17:22 |
| lle2 | but then you just need to learn to eat different fresh stuff at different times of the year | 17:23 |
| lle2 | this ain't exactly a tropical environment here | 17:23 |
| daniels | yeah, i guess | 17:23 |
| daniels | but given that we have mountainous regions, cold and crisp regions, hot and dry desert regions, and hot and wet tropical regions, i'm a bit used to constant availability of fresh and good everything. :) | 17:24 |
| xan | daniels, dude, spain's food quality is superb, don't know wtf are you talking about ;) | 17:25 |
| ferulo | I wonder if I can buy frozen argentinian beef here in .fi | 17:26 |
| lle2 | ferulo: no idea, but there's quite often decent brazilian beef available, not sure if that's acceptable to you though ;) | 17:27 |
| daniels | xan: sure, i agree, but the cheap spanish food you get shipped over here ain't great | 17:27 |
| daniels | ferulo: frozen? urgh | 17:27 |
| ferulo | I mean, you cannot get fresh argentinian beef in europe :) | 17:27 |
| xan | daniels, "export only", I guess | 17:28 |
| daniels | right, but as incredibly good as argentinian beef is, i'd prefer fresh and great beef to frozen and amazing beef | 17:28 |
| lle2 | daniels: great > amazing? | 17:28 |
| daniels | lle2: fresh + great > frozen + amazing | 17:29 |
| daniels | lle2: given that frozen detracts from it somewhat | 17:29 |
| tko | ferulo, seebs is making an article for developerworks about using n800 as webcam or something :) | 17:29 |
| lle2 | I don't see why the beef should be "fresh", shouldn't it spend some time "hanging" (or whatever it's called) | 17:29 |
| ferulo | seebs: ohh, cool! are you using C or python? | 17:29 |
| daniels | xan: yeah, indeed. i had a great time eating out when i was in spain last. and the time before that, too. :) | 17:30 |
| ferulo | tko: when you invert the camera, is that a X key event or a dbus signal? | 17:31 |
| tko | ferulo, something lowlevel I think, IIRC there's something in ke-recv about that | 17:31 |
| ferulo | uhh | 17:31 |
| xan | daniels, right. ego te absolvo :) | 17:32 |
| daniels | a bit flips in sysfs, ke-recv catches this, and flips a bit in gconf (over dbus). gconfd then wakes up every program using libgconf, because the latter isn't smart enough to set specific dbus watches. two seconds later, the event's been delivered to your program. | 17:32 |
| daniels | best architecture ever. | 17:32 |
| ferulo | haha, I'll use gconf then :) | 17:33 |
| ferulo | xan: http://www.operafin.fi/produktiot.asp?polku=18;385;;2&tyyppi=1 | 17:35 |
| seebs | C. | 17:36 |
| ferulo | seebs: okii | 17:36 |
| xan | ferulo, in these moments I'd like to have iodb.com | 17:36 |
| ferulo | are you using xvimagesink and then hooking the window_xid, right? | 17:36 |
| seebs | I have a tiny little gstreamer program that saves webcam images as jpegs. Now I'm working on adding enough maemo application glue to make it a clickable icon in a menu, and having it upload. | 17:36 |
| seebs | It ends up being more complicated. | 17:36 |
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| seebs | I have a pipe from the source to xvimagesink, and another pipe to ffmpegcolorspace and jpegenc. | 17:37 |
| seebs | There's a tee involved. | 17:37 |
| ferulo | why are you using ffmpegcolorspace? for live video is reaaaaly slooow | 17:37 |
| seebs | Someone told me I needed it for jpegenc. I may not. In any event, ffmpegcolorspace only gets called every few seconds, not on every frame. | 17:38 |
| dragorn | you're... teeing a binary stream? That's so perverse it's great :P | 17:38 |
| seebs | I am cheating horribly, I have a probe on the output pad which returns false 59 times out of 60. :) | 17:39 |
| seebs | This causes the item it looked at to get dropped instead of being forwarded, which is exactly what I want, of course. | 17:39 |
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| seebs | Anyway, that's all working; now I just need to get the maemo application glue and debian package glue, and a way to upload files. I'm not actually doing a GUI in the example. | 17:40 |
| seebs | I figure an "unnamed" xvimagesink is good enough for now. | 17:40 |
| * daniels boggles at people demanding a stateful firewall. | 17:41 | |
| keesj | perhaps it can be handy if you want vpn not? | 17:42 |
| dragorn | daniels: Hey, you've got way more hardware than most openwrt installs do for stateful fw :P | 17:42 |
| daniels | dragorn: sure, but why do you want it by default if there are zero open ports? | 17:43 |
| dragorn | daniels: Ask not the rationale of users, or your head might explode. | 17:44 |
| lle2 | daniels: do we ship with the necessary modules? | 17:44 |
| daniels | lle2: some of them. don't ship conntrack iirc. | 17:45 |
| Jaffa | keesj: Just going to spend some time with my family and watch some telly/have a cup of tea, but the basic first-draft, getting started and simple port walkthrough documentation is up, and announced on the new mailing list: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/mud-builder-users/2007-January/000000.html | 17:45 |
| keesj | Jaffa, you are a great inspiration , perhaps I will also spend some time with family and kids | 17:46 |
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| keesj | and you have at least on user subscribed to the list :) | 17:52 |
| Jaffa | keesj: didn't last long... | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | But my brothers are coming round for dinner so much drinking and little hacking this evening. | 17:58 |
| Jaffa | keesj: let me know if you have any problems with the walkthrough, I'm fairly pleased with the workflow, though | 17:59 |
| keesj | other that I still get the build dir not set message | 18:01 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, try a fresh checkout from Subversion? | 18:02 |
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| keesj | Jaffa, http://paste-it.net/940 | 18:03 |
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| Jaffa | ta | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | keesj: is ~/tmp/trunk empty already? | 18:04 |
| keesj | it was empty | 18:04 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. | 18:05 |
| keesj | I will check later , I have to go | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | have fun | 18:06 |
| koos | other than some API changed in some libs, apps using advices hilden API and plain gtk should work on both os2006 and os2007, right? | 18:15 |
| koos | s/advices/adviced/ | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | keesj: excellent, I'm getting the same error using your command :) | 18:15 |
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| Jaffa | Oh doh! I'm an idiot. | 18:18 |
| koen | Jaffa: but are you an idiot with a discount code? | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | Nope, so it's alright, I'm not a proper developer... | 18:22 |
| ferulo | xan! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0865957/ | 18:26 |
| xan | ferulo, looks shitty | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | *very* shitty | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | koen: are you yet considered a proper developer? | 18:28 |
| koen | Jaffa: sort off | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | oh? | 18:30 |
| koen | Jaffa: I got invited to http://www.bossaconference.org/ | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | Cool. All expenses paid? | 18:30 |
| c0ffee | does the invitiation come with a discount code? | 18:30 |
| koen | Jaffa: yep | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | koen: niiiice. | 18:30 |
| koen | Jaffa: even better, I only have to give my name and passport number, they take care off booking stuff | 18:31 |
| * koen was *very* impressed | 18:31 | |
| Jaffa | Excellent. | 18:32 |
| jonek | koen: wow! cool conference invitation!! Marcel Holtman (BlueZ) will come, too. Maybe something in the direction of BT head set support for maemo devices could be achived with his help! | 18:38 |
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| Jaffa | Right, mud-builder subversion updated so it works now. | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | <sigh/> | 18:41 |
| keesj | koen but you are even listed here http://www.bossaconference.org/public.php | 18:49 |
| koen | ah, cool | 18:50 |
| * koen spots Robot101 on that list as well | 18:50 | |
| koen | oooh | 18:50 |
| keesj | Jaffa, netcat build works | 18:50 |
| koen | I can verbally abuse some minimo people for their POS buildsystem as well | 18:51 |
| keesj | are those the firefox guys? | 18:51 |
| keesj | INdT sounds cool | 18:52 |
| keesj | specially , but so does brasil | 18:52 |
| shackan | yeah, they did Tapioca and lots of other things | 18:53 |
| shackan | s/did/wrote/ | 18:53 |
| jonek | INdT made all the cool tapioca stuff | 18:53 |
| keesj | so they have also relation with google i presume | 18:53 |
| keesj | I all sounds so cool! | 18:53 |
| shackan | well, I guess they use libjingle, so yes | 18:54 |
| jonek | keesj: indeed, lots of interesting people there and the frontpage refers to the nice beaches :-) | 18:55 |
| shackan | jonek, and the headset person is brad, not really marcel, but oh, he's there too | 18:55 |
| jonek | shackan: :) | 18:57 |
| jonek | bossaconf seems to be THE 770/N800/Maemo conference | 18:57 |
| shackan | btw, anybody managed to get bluetooth working inside scratchbox? | 18:57 |
| keesj | I tried but did not succeed. | 18:59 |
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| keesj | shackan, there was a post about running maemo stuff outside of scratchbox with only a chroot , perhas that would work. perhaps the sb2 will work. | 19:00 |
| koos | koen: I read you tried libcairo on n770, no? | 19:03 |
| koen | koos: on my other arm machines | 19:04 |
| koen | http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/cairo-performance-improvements-on-arm | 19:04 |
| koos | ah, ok. I've build it on sb-bora, but crashes on n770 :( | 19:04 |
| koos | I just finished porting the cairo painting from KDE's kmplayer to N770 one, and now I need a working libcairo .. | 19:06 |
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| koos | (works great in SB so far) | 19:07 |
| suihkulokki | koos: a common cause of "works on sbox/qemu but not on device" is alignement errors | 19:07 |
| dragorn | alignment errors suck to track down. You can (usually) turn off alignment enforcement in /proc (i forget where) but it's a crap way of "solving" the problem. | 19:09 |
| koos | suihkulokki: You don't think it's not working on n770, because it's build on SB w/ bora? | 19:09 |
| daniels | not really, just attach gdb and see where it catches the signal | 19:09 |
| koen | set fixup of, watch for sigbus in gdb, fix it | 19:09 |
| dragorn | daniels: Wellll yes, if you have remote gdb :P | 19:09 |
| koen | or fixup + warm and decode the addresses | 19:09 |
| daniels | on n800, unaligned access work as such, they're just well slow | 19:09 |
| koen | daniels: ah, I always thought there had to bad a catch with arm11 | 19:10 |
| koen | daniels: it sounded too good to be true to have real unaligned accesses | 19:10 |
| koos | Btw, the cairo I compiled is 1.3.10, I thought carl and friends tested it on the device | 19:10 |
| suihkulokki | koos: if it would be caused by bora incompatability, you would have some library dependency problem installing it, not a crash | 19:10 |
| koos | suihkulokki: actually I hacked around that problem, to get users install a lib | 19:11 |
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| suihkulokki | ofcourse, there is the much greater than zero chance that someone updated a library and did not update soname and/or shlibs | 19:12 |
| koen | koos: I had a laugh when Xan posted a profile using showing an arm11 cpu before the n800 was announced :) | 19:13 |
| koos | koen: btw, you as oe guy and such, have you or do you know of any plans to keep n770 up-to-date w/ the oss packages such as the new gtk | 19:16 |
| koen | koos: plans, yes | 19:17 |
| Jaffa | keesj: excellent, glad to hear it. | 19:17 |
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| koen | koos: finding the time to get it to fit together nicely, no | 19:17 |
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| koos | I have this strange feeling that real community dev can now start now that nokia has moved on to its successor | 19:19 |
| koos | (nobody waits anymore for nokia) | 19:20 |
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| atla | successor of the n800? ;) | 19:27 |
| atla | or do you mean there is no community dev for n800 | 19:27 |
| Disconnect | koos: you'd think so, but consider zaurus. when tt/sharp gave up it kinda petered out into a side project | 19:27 |
| koos_ | Disconnect: still that platform has much hacking (and I think there a lot more n770 out there) | 19:29 |
| koos_ | (ask koen :-) | 19:29 |
| tko | koos_, there's cairo 1.2 in sardine, and we'll have 1.3 once our lawyers are done with it | 19:30 |
| koos_ | tko: darn I overlooked that one indeed. I try it .. | 19:32 |
| koen | you want 1.3, that's insanely faster as 1.2 | 19:35 |
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| seebs | Hey, sorry if this is too off-topic, but: In BSD-land, I can do things like "mount -t null directory1 directory2" and have directory1 show up also at directory2. | 19:41 |
| seebs | Is there a Linuxy way to do this? | 19:41 |
| Tak | --bin | 19:41 |
| Tak | er, --bind | 19:41 |
| * Tak mashes the D on his kb | 19:41 | |
| seebs | Ahh! | 19:42 |
| seebs | Thank you kindly. | 19:42 |
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| koos_ | tko: .. hmm same crash, I'll debug a bit .. | 19:46 |
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| jonek | found some interesting reading about java/AWT/gtk implementation: http://www.inf.uos.de/elmar/projects/java-gtk/thread-ui.pdf | 19:55 |
| Disconnect | grrr these random reboots are annoying. guess i should look at why its happening. | 19:55 |
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| keesj | jonek, the document smells like latex | 19:56 |
| jonek | keesj: of course, it's a Ph.D. thesis :) | 19:57 |
| keesj | I just helped my girlfriend with hers (lyx + latex) | 19:58 |
| Disconnect | whats the reboot-reason path again? /proc/bootreason just says 32wd_to (not as helpful as i'd hoped) | 19:58 |
| HGFB | Does anyone have the minimo repository added in the application manager? I can't get it to work? | 19:58 |
| koos_ | jonek: I understand having java for those mobile phone apps, but why else does somebody want java. You can't run eclips on this :-) | 20:00 |
| jonek | koos_: good question :) - do you mean the 770 by 'this'? | 20:01 |
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| koos_ | jonek: yes, but actually everything with less than 1Gb | 20:02 |
| shackan | but you can run *games* ! :D | 20:03 |
| jonek | koos_: ok - 770 is not suited as a development platform. but why should all that available Java code and experience not be usable on the 770? | 20:03 |
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| mokki | will n800 support SDHC (aka >2GB sd cards) at a later time? | 20:04 |
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| jonek | koos_: SUN's java phoneME advanced (the CDC platform) targets exactly at devices like the Nokia 770. I don't really understand why Nokia is not directly supporting a combination of Java and Maemo. | 20:05 |
| Disconnect | jonek: probably money | 20:06 |
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| koos_ | jonek: good question, but that is also for all other lang. or tk's out there. I do some java development my self (see http://www.froglogic.com/pg?id=NewsEvents&category=69), so it's not that I don't like it (nor Qt for instance) | 20:06 |
| kender | hi | 20:06 |
| Tak | probably time | 20:06 |
| Disconnect | license the arm accelerator, license the java specs, etvc | 20:06 |
| Tak | phoneme was released not that long ago | 20:06 |
| Disconnect | so.. what is the path for the list of reboot reasons? | 20:07 |
| koos_ | jonek: yes for mobile phone apps its okay I guess | 20:07 |
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| keesj | but when purely looking a the languages I would say that .net with c# is the more modern | 20:07 |
| keesj | (contains more design patterns in the language) | 20:08 |
| mokki | does SDHC require special HW support. At least the linux kernel will support it soon http://uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0701.0/0847.html | 20:08 |
| jonek | Disconnect: of course! supporting another language next to C (glib) and Python is a big effort. | 20:08 |
| jonek | Tak: right - the option to go via phoneME is a new option. I want to take it. | 20:09 |
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| Disconnect | (grr any search option on the irc archives?) | 20:11 |
| keesj | but it is really a shame that hidlon != gtk for that reason | 20:11 |
| jonek | keesj: I think asking for Java on the 770 is not a matter of 'more modern'. | 20:12 |
| Disconnect | hmm. should dsp_dld be crashing my 800 periodically? | 20:12 |
| Disconnect | /usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf : 3 * | 20:12 |
| jonek | Disconnect: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search | 20:12 |
| Disconnect | (resets shows 3, restarts shows 19) | 20:13 |
| keesj | hmm I have been talking a lot :P | 20:13 |
| Disconnect | jonek: any way to link it from the index page? | 20:14 |
| jonek | Disconnect: why should I know? | 20:14 |
| Disconnect | anyone know who owns it? | 20:14 |
| koos_ | Btw, how come some already have the n800 (I hope that doesn't mean the invitation program is over)? | 20:15 |
| Disconnect | koos_: it hasn't started yet | 20:16 |
| jonek | Disconnect: search for the search url with the search url. I think the one who posted it first owns the site :) | 20:16 |
| Disconnect | its not a prerelease. its a "thanks for the help on our platform, now upgrade your apps" coupon. | 20:16 |
| koos_ | Disconnect: ah, there is still hope .. | 20:16 |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Search: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish engineering release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com" | 20:17 | |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Search: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com" | 20:17 | |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Search: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh" | 20:17 | |
| Disconnect | stupid length limits :) | 20:17 |
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| Disconnect | wow that 4-page topic is a real conversation killer :) | 20:26 |
| kender | hehe | 20:26 |
| koos_ | actually I finally started debugging .. till now :-) | 20:27 |
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| * jonek is cooking some tortellini | 20:32 | |
| shackan | yumm | 20:34 |
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| jonek | shit, I forgot "but don't tell anyone" behind the search URL ;-) | 20:35 |
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| kender | any howto about how to hildonize a normal gtk app? | 20:39 |
| jonek | keesj: phoneME already seems to contain something like the PJA Toolkit you reffered to: https://phoneme.dev.java.net/source/browse/phoneme/components/cdc/trunk/src/share/personal/classes/awt/x11/java/awt/Toolkit.java?rev=351&view=auto&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup | 20:42 |
| jonek | keesj: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_an_existing_application.html ? | 20:43 |
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| jonek | kender: the last URL was for you | 20:44 |
| kender | thanks jonek | 20:44 |
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| * Disconnect hasn't decided if he wants to port maemo mapper or weechat. | 20:55 | |
| tko | why choose?-) | 20:56 |
| keesj | Disconnect, you did not really give the developer a change did you? | 20:57 |
| Disconnect | cuz i have been working 10-14 hour days and likely will continue to do so. (i'm "the guy" for a web services company - 40G/sec of outbound traffic usually - where the entire admin team quit.) so i've only got time for one app (and some drinking :) ..) | 20:58 |
| Disconnect | keesj: ? | 20:58 |
| keesj | does the developer of maemo mapper want to port maemo mapper to n800? | 20:59 |
| c0ffee | i guess as soon as he got his discount code, he'll do | 20:59 |
| koos_ | Disconnect: cheers (got myself a sixpack for this evening, gotto love these germans) | 20:59 |
| Disconnect | yah thats pretty much what he's said | 20:59 |
| Disconnect | koos_: heh. yah. i'm deciding if its too early to drink yet today. (probably not, so long as i keep the caffeine flowing too :) ..) | 21:00 |
| keesj | but I would be an interesting effort to see if mud or something else can build with and without the gps api support | 21:00 |
| Disconnect | my other option is to start hacking on the car computer interface. | 21:02 |
| Disconnect | (put the usb-host kit back together, light up a dev env and figure out how to get it talking to the viper board i've got that has all the storage/etc options on it..) | 21:02 |
| Disconnect | hmm. the test pins are just serial, right? no chance of whipping up i2c on them? | 21:03 |
| Disconnect | (on the 770) | 21:03 |
| c0ffee | is there any information available on what the pins do? | 21:05 |
| c0ffee | the only thing I know is that they are too many for a serial port | 21:05 |
| c0ffee | and that it's possible to brick the device with them | 21:05 |
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| Disconnect | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Flasher_tool_usage has some info on the serial console pings | 21:16 |
| Disconnect | pins | 21:16 |
| Disconnect | 4 pins for tty (2 ground) and 7 undefined. | 21:17 |
| Disconnect | (so not quite 'serial' since its 3.3v) | 21:17 |
| * Disconnect is hoping there's a gpio there somewhere | 21:17 | |
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| Pio | WHILE APPLE'S proposed iPhone might have OSX onboard, Steve Jobs is adamant that there will be no third party applications allowed. | 21:19 |
| qgil | Pio: I was having a llok at http://www.43folders.com/2007/01/11/osx-app-developers-iphone/ | 21:27 |
| Pio | heh http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36919 | 21:27 |
| qgil | Pio: not even a ringtone, wow | 21:29 |
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| framerate|afk | Disconnect: did the mapper deb I sent not work or something? | 21:32 |
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| jonek | qgil: LOL@inquirer iPhone article | 21:33 |
| qgil | jonek: well, it's a consistent, explicit and transparent (?) strategy | 21:34 |
| * jonek hugs his 770 | 21:35 | |
| suihkulokki | that's even worse than BREW | 21:35 |
| suihkulokki | otoh even BREW had to backpedal and it gives development chances for developers as well | 21:35 |
| suihkulokki | on this side of pond locking down iPhone for pay-only content seems like a commercial suicide | 21:36 |
| suihkulokki | but there it's the norm of industry.. | 21:36 |
| qgil | jonek: the challenge here is the same as usual: to bring the principles of emancipation to mainstream users in a time when "emancipation" doesn't seem to be a very valued value | 21:37 |
| jonek | now everybody who complained about N800 and 770 to be crap in face of the iPhone has to regret | 21:38 |
| qgil | jonek: all this are debates of minorities in the catacombs - we are here for something bigger than that | 21:38 |
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| jonek | qgil: *nod* | 21:40 |
| tigert | keesj: have you actually tried that maemo-mapper does *not* work? | 21:40 |
| c0ffee | btw, there's ipodlinux | 21:41 |
| c0ffee | so much for the ipod concept :) | 21:41 |
| keesj | tigert, no | 21:41 |
| tigert | keesj: try? :) | 21:41 |
| framerate | So my N800 is definitely reporting a 4gb card correctly... that's interesting | 21:41 |
| tigert | keesj: I think it works | 21:42 |
| jonek | let's see how fast the iPhone is linux0rt | 21:42 |
| tigert | it might bork on some dependency from mistral repo, but I think it worked | 21:42 |
| tigert | I recall installing the real debconf to actually satisfy some deps to run mistral stuff on the N800 | 21:42 |
| tigert | but some things do work just okay | 21:42 |
| * tigert tries it so he knows if it was true or not | 21:42 | |
| qgil | the question is: what do you want to do with your iPod / iPhone that the official firmware is not allowing you to do? | 21:43 |
| keesj | still , it would be good to port it right? | 21:43 |
| Disconnect | framerate: worked fine, but it doesn't use the new bluetooth handler | 21:44 |
| qgil | tigert: I can almost hear you when you type | 21:44 |
| framerate | Disconnect: cool cool. I figured it works ok till gnuite gets around to releasing a new update | 21:45 |
| jonek | qgil: nope. the more a devices claims itself not to be capable to run an open OS the more it is attractive to hack it | 21:45 |
| tigert | qgil: in finland now? | 21:45 |
| qgil | tigert: yes! | 21:45 |
| tigert | woot | 21:45 |
| qgil | jonek: that's fine but it's still a hacker's game | 21:45 |
| tigert | we need to do a dinner next week with the folks | 21:45 |
| tko | qgil, thanks for bringing the snow :) | 21:45 |
| qgil | HOW HOW HOW [jingles] | 21:46 |
| shapr | Hey, is there a correct name for something that has one purpose and communicates via bluetooth? Like the GPS bluetooth widgets? | 21:46 |
| c0ffee | qgil, with the ipod: play ogg files | 21:46 |
| shapr | I was thinking of a GSM/EDGE/UMTS bluetooth widget so I could use my 770 as a phone. | 21:46 |
| Milhouse | Disconnect: You check if you have received a private irc chat from me? | 21:46 |
| shapr | And then I wouldn't have to deal with shitty phone software. | 21:46 |
| suihkulokki | jonek: the latest generation of nanos is not hacked | 21:46 |
| qgil | c0ffee: good answer! 1 point - what else? | 21:47 |
| c0ffee | play flacs | 21:47 |
| Milhouse | Disconnect: Can you check (etc.) :) thanks | 21:47 |
| qgil | in fact this is a uselful exercise for our beloved -open- platform | 21:47 |
| jonek | suihkulokki: I didn't say it can be heached | 21:47 |
| Disconnect | got it, sending now | 21:47 |
| Milhouse | thanks :) | 21:48 |
| jonek | s/heached/hacked | 21:48 |
| tigert | keesj: ok, it depends on some libbluetooth from mistral I think | 21:49 |
| tigert | and I dont think its good to downgrade to those.. hmm | 21:49 |
| Disconnect | ok i'm just gonna put the MM bins on the web. its easier. | 21:49 |
| qgil | tigert: about dinners, this week we are still in a hotel and my partner is carrying the children here and there. Besides, Valtteri has an entertaining agenda for me this week - but definitely, we need to meet in a table anytime soon | 21:49 |
| tigert | has anyone tried to rebuild maemo mapper wth bora? | 21:50 |
| Disconnect | tigert: the mm bin I have just needs a new libsqlite | 21:50 |
| tigert | qgil: yea, maybe later | 21:50 |
| tigert | Disconnect: ok | 21:50 |
| Disconnect | no idea where it came from btw, so don't ask me for build info :)( | 21:50 |
| framerate | tigert: it's not official, it's just been passed around a few times | 21:51 |
| c0ffee | qgil, where are you? | 21:51 |
| qgil | c0ffee, jonek, I will come back with that question looking for answers applicable to maemo in the short-mid term: what do we want to do that can't do now? | 21:51 |
| qgil | c0ffee: Radisson hotel ruoholahti | 21:51 |
| shapr | qgil: inject raw 802.11 frames? | 21:51 |
| c0ffee | qgil, you mean besides the obvious? :( | 21:52 |
| Disconnect | http://link.sigkill.net/maemo-mapper_1.3.2_armel.deb for anyone who wants bora-compat maemo mapper | 21:52 |
| Disconnect | it'll tell you what libsqlite it wants | 21:52 |
| shapr | qgil: missing bluetooth profiles | 21:52 |
| qgil | what do we want to do that can't do now... with any device | 21:52 |
| c0ffee | btsco especially | 21:52 |
| shapr | oh, not with any device... | 21:52 |
| shapr | software radio | 21:52 |
| c0ffee | multiple bt connections | 21:53 |
| shapr | multiple wifi connections | 21:53 |
| qgil | of course there are many gaps covered by other platforms, systems, devices... we need to work on these too - but the future is shaped by the ideas that nobody has got today :) | 21:53 |
| shapr | qgil: I'd like a totally different form factor, I want a torc that hangs around my neck | 21:53 |
| c0ffee | i want it to be multiple parts | 21:54 |
| shapr | Yeah, I want that too. | 21:54 |
| qgil | I'm not saying we need to ocus on utopia, but (at least for myself) utopias are more than useful to define the next steps | 21:54 |
| c0ffee | like f.e. a small buzzer that reminds me of a date | 21:54 |
| c0ffee | or the cam should be detachable | 21:54 |
| c0ffee | the n800 appears to be even larger than the 770 | 21:54 |
| shapr | A GPS aware todo list | 21:54 |
| qgil | shapr: what implications would this torc have for Maemo - write them down :) | 21:54 |
| c0ffee | and the 770 was already too large | 21:54 |
| shapr | 770 is perfect size for me, but I'm a large person (not fat, just large). | 21:55 |
| Disconnect | c0ffee: how do you figure larger? its slightly larger in one direction (width IIRC) but shorter and thinner. and lighter. | 21:55 |
| tigert | the point is, if it is very small, | 21:55 |
| Disconnect | (without the 770 hardcase. with it its -way- smaller.) | 21:55 |
| c0ffee | Disconnect, i only saw videos so far :/ | 21:55 |
| tigert | like a mobile phone, | 21:55 |
| tigert | the web browsing in it sucks | 21:55 |
| shapr | Except my fingers are too big to operate even the thumbboard well :-( | 21:55 |
| tigert | I think the 770 was the sweet spot for htat | 21:55 |
| c0ffee | tigert, maybe a flexible display you could pull out? | 21:55 |
| tigert | the n800 is a bit bigger | 21:55 |
| tigert | but it still fits in a pocket nicely | 21:55 |
| c0ffee | anyway | 21:56 |
| tigert | we dont have flexible displays | 21:56 |
| shapr | Or what about projecting the display on sun/glasses? | 21:56 |
| c0ffee | i think qgil is interested in software / system design questions | 21:56 |
| c0ffee | and not so much in hardware dreams | 21:56 |
| shapr | c0ffee: Yeah, but big dreams lead to big ideas :-) | 21:56 |
| tigert | its also, that if you shrink the device, | 21:56 |
| tigert | you cannot shrink the ui indefinitely | 21:56 |
| Disconnect | python apps should run totally unmodified on 770 and 800, right? | 21:56 |
| tigert | some things need to fit your fingers or eyesight | 21:56 |
| c0ffee | i'm not sure whether it's meanwhile possible to leverage the DSPs | 21:56 |
| c0ffee | that surely would need a good api | 21:57 |
| shapr | tigert: But you've hit on a good point, fingers and eyesight are the only human hardware ui limitations. | 21:57 |
| c0ffee | most non-nokia applications are burning too much cpu cycles | 21:57 |
| tigert | shapr: and websites need at least 800 pixels wide screen | 21:57 |
| shapr | It would be possible to easy if the DSP dev could be done with gcc | 21:57 |
| tigert | and you cannot shrink that much more | 21:58 |
| Disconnect | shapr: why fingers? lots of stuff can be done with non-traditional inputs (retinal tracking? alpha-wave? subvocalization or sub-movement tracking of hands, etc) | 21:58 |
| Disconnect | if you're gonna dream :) | 21:58 |
| tigert | I'd say this is close to minimum | 21:58 |
| shapr | Disconnect: good point | 21:58 |
| tigert | since text is very small already | 21:58 |
| c0ffee | shapr, there are ppl that are better in dsp asm than c :) | 21:58 |
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| qgil | spell recognition | 21:58 |
| shapr | Still, downloading a separate program to do DSP dev doesn't fit with the rest of the SDK | 21:58 |
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| Disconnect | qgil: spell recognition like <armwave, wide stance> i cast MAGIC GOOGLE<clap!> | 21:58 |
| Disconnect | ? | 21:58 |
| c0ffee | or checkpoint support | 21:59 |
| tigert | hmm | 21:59 |
| c0ffee | the it's easier to suspend programs out of memory | 21:59 |
| tigert | whats the problem when scratchbox cannot resolve hostnames? | 21:59 |
| c0ffee | even if they don't support it | 21:59 |
| c0ffee | tigert, no /etc/resolv.conf ? | 21:59 |
| tigert | it had | 21:59 |
| c0ffee | or wrong entries | 21:59 |
| tigert | it had "nameserver 127.0.0.1" | 22:00 |
| tigert | I changed it to my local named | 22:00 |
| tigert | but still nothing | 22:00 |
| qgil | Disconnect: spell recognition like me talking to the tiny beast instead of typing | 22:00 |
| Disconnect | speech recognition? | 22:00 |
| shapr | I'd like to do more with voice recog. I have this dream for a voice input and visual display interface, something that looks like Aardappel for programming - http://www.scannedinavian.com/hope/entry/39 | 22:00 |
| qgil | oooooops | 22:00 |
| qgil | speech, yes | 22:00 |
| * Disconnect wants spell recognition | 22:00 | |
| Disconnect | adapt the wii | 22:00 |
| shapr | That's a good idea | 22:01 |
| tigert | voice recognition reminds me of COMDEX 2000 I think | 22:01 |
| tigert | when we were there with Ximian | 22:01 |
| tigert | the ibm voice recog demo dude said "This is a demonstration of the ibm viavoice technology" | 22:01 |
| shapr | Disconnect: that's a really cool idea, you put an accelerometer into the device and use it as a "magic wand" ? | 22:01 |
| tigert | and the screen read: "this is a devastation of the ibm..." | 22:02 |
| shapr | tigert: haha | 22:02 |
| Disconnect | tigert: heh | 22:02 |
| tigert | and the dude didnt even blink :) | 22:02 |
| shapr | tigert: I was thinking more of un-natural language recognition. | 22:02 |
| tigert | yea | 22:02 |
| tigert | sure, its hard stuff to get right | 22:02 |
| Disconnect | shapr: there is a game at myrtle beach that we saw - its all magic-based. you get a wand and it tracks you, when you 'zap' (just like it sounds) an object (prop) it reacts. kinda neat. | 22:02 |
| shackan | tigert, vista has a similar feature, and the first live demonstration they aired had a similar end | 22:02 |
| qgil | you could read and sort your email while driving alone to work with 6 words or so activanting the 6 actions or so you actually do with your email | 22:03 |
| shapr | Too bad GPS has such low resolution. | 22:03 |
| * jpetersen would also be interested in the solution of the scratchbox hostname resolving problem | 22:03 | |
| Disconnect | (zap as in point-and-stab, so accelerometer and location-tracking cuz there can be multiple targets in a room, you might have 3 in a line so it has to know which you are looking at, etc) | 22:03 |
| c0ffee | shapr, i saw a gps unit with min. 7cm precission last week :) | 22:04 |
| c0ffee | shapr, 150.000$ at your local us military job | 22:04 |
| shapr | Hey, could you use multiple N800s to track each other's location via ultrasonics, or whatever? | 22:04 |
| shapr | c0ffee: I thought that was military only hardware? | 22:04 |
| Disconnect | shapr: i -really- doubt the mic will pick up ultrasonics | 22:04 |
| shackan | lol | 22:04 |
| c0ffee | shapr, yeah | 22:04 |
| Disconnect | ..or care :) | 22:04 |
| shapr | I know the military protocol has that sort of resolution... | 22:04 |
| c0ffee | shapr, it's for some darpa sponsored project | 22:04 |
| jonek | qgil: in my research work I'm concerned with multi hop WLAN protocols. I think that would offer a whole new perspective for mobile devices like the 770. many more P2P-Ad-Hoc like sollutions to communicate. | 22:05 |
| shapr | c0ffee: Tell me more, I want one! | 22:05 |
| shackan | shapr, you could measure the bluetooth signal strength indicator | 22:05 |
| shapr | shackan: Oh that's a cool idea | 22:05 |
| daniels | heh. final call for british airways flight seven seven zero. | 22:05 |
| * Disconnect has worked with relative-location-based tracking. its a -hard- topic. | 22:05 | |
| shapr | jonek: olsr? | 22:05 |
| c0ffee | at the university, one group is working on self-localization in buildings | 22:06 |
| Disconnect | even with fixed precisely-measured base units, and way better RSSI resolution than we're gonna have on the tablet, it was close to unsolvable. | 22:06 |
| c0ffee | based on the wireless networks you can see | 22:06 |
| Disconnect | (did it move 10ft left or did Joe step in front of the antenna again?) | 22:06 |
| shackan | Disconnect, it it was easy there'd be no fun researching it :D | 22:06 |
| jonek | shapr: yes things like that - but think of more than just IP connectivity | 22:06 |
| shackan | *if | 22:06 |
| shapr | Disconnect: hehe, would it be easier if you had multiple measurements like wifi, bluetooth, and audio? | 22:07 |
| Disconnect | "are you in the building" is easy. "are you in the middle of the room" is not hard. "are you in the room" isn't great (near the edge, for example)) and "who's cube are you in" is basically impossible. | 22:07 |
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| Disconnect | shapr: not really. if you are gonna do that, just use IR pingers... | 22:07 |
| qgil | it would be nice if Maemo was able to make your dreams feasible, if only today at a heavily cut alpha version, and tomorrow... | 22:07 |
| Disconnect | (beacons) | 22:07 |
| c0ffee | i'd like to have a set of maemo enabled applications on my desktop | 22:07 |
| shapr | Disconnect: Along the same lines, what about faraday cage paint and running wifi on the inside? | 22:08 |
| tko | daniels, still enjoying the flight(s) ?-) | 22:08 |
| shackan | qgil, Quim Gil ? | 22:08 |
| shapr | Then you'd know where you are. | 22:08 |
| c0ffee | and when i go away from my desktop, I drag the application state on my 770 | 22:08 |
| qgil | shackan: yes | 22:08 |
| c0ffee | and can continue to work there on the exact same application state | 22:08 |
| Disconnect | shapr: thats hardly feasable though, in a real installation | 22:08 |
| shapr | Disconnect: Yeah, I just realized that. | 22:08 |
| c0ffee | and later connect to 770 to the desktop again | 22:08 |
| daniels | tko: turns out i'm on the same flight as samuel ortiz though, which is great | 22:08 |
| shackan | qgil, of GNOME fame? | 22:08 |
| daniels | it almost makes up for the utter disaster this has been so far | 22:08 |
| tko | daniels, heh. enjoy | 22:09 |
| Disconnect | (mil was looking for self-assembling self-defining nodes - drop a pile of them semi-randomly into an area and they self-assemble a network and can track mobile nodes by relative position to the fixed nodes) | 22:09 |
| c0ffee | smart dust stuff :) | 22:09 |
| shapr | c0ffee: Wait, did you say $150k for that GPS unit? | 22:09 |
| c0ffee | yes | 22:09 |
| shackan | Disconnect, wireless mesh networking + gps was too cheap ? | 22:09 |
| c0ffee | it's a bit large | 22:09 |
| Disconnect | sorta. except they were way larger. more sensors too. | 22:09 |
| daniels | tko: also had to walk the entire length of terminal 4 to find a bloody powerpoint | 22:09 |
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| qgil | qgil, the guy that woke up today at 4am in order to make all the necessary steps to arrive to Finland with partner, kid and baby :) | 22:09 |
| c0ffee | it's one of those autonomous cars that's supposed to drive through a desert | 22:10 |
| * qgil goes to literally dream | 22:10 | |
| Disconnect | shackan: gps doesn't work indoors, in the rain, etcetcetc. | 22:10 |
| qgil | in bed | 22:10 |
| shapr | Disconnect: Michael Salib et al did research on that at MIT | 22:10 |
| daniels | qgil: if it's any consolation, the last flight i had was even worse than this one | 22:10 |
| cesman | rest well | 22:10 |
| Disconnect | shapr: yah .. bunch of guys at umd did it too, we had periodic visits | 22:10 |
| qgil | daniels: I don't try to compete with antipodians | 22:10 |
| shackan | qgil, bye! | 22:10 |
| qgil | so... good night! | 22:10 |
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| shapr | Disconnect: From the papers I read, it looked like it would work fine. | 22:10 |
| * tko was shortly wondering why would daniels be looking for presentations in the terminal... | 22:10 | |
| shapr | tko: hah, me too | 22:10 |
| Disconnect | shapr: try it some time :) | 22:11 |
| shapr | Disconnect: If had spare money to buy that sort of hardware.... yeah right... | 22:11 |
| daniels | qgil: had to leave at 3am since there was no metro early christmas eve. didn't end up sleeping at all. walked into city, was no airport bus since it was christmas eve, so had to just take a taxi anyway. got there, was forced to check one bag in despite the flight literally having less than 20 people. was harassed by stupid immigration staff at heathrow. lounges were all closed. | 22:11 |
| daniels | and that was just finland <-> uk. travel is not kind to me. | 22:11 |
| daniels | tko: you've been at nokia too long :) | 22:11 |
| c0ffee | i always wonder whether for native speakers, "powerpoint" sounds as pathetic as "kraftpunkt" in german (literal translation) | 22:11 |
| Disconnect | shapr: the nodes we used cost less than $50 each to build. (plus a startup of a couple hundred to get the boards printed and cut) | 22:11 |
| shapr | Disconnect: wow | 22:11 |
| Disconnect | c0ffee: it sounds like something that you plug your laptop into :) | 22:11 |
| shapr | c0ffee: Sounds to me like a mouse for body builders. | 22:12 |
| tko | daniels, yes, that and I don't hear that term in the other context at all that often | 22:12 |
| c0ffee | in german it just sounds ridiculous | 22:12 |
| c0ffee | winzigweich kraftpunkt | 22:12 |
| shackan | lol | 22:12 |
| * shapr snickers | 22:12 | |
| * shackan wonders if frenchmen felt the need to translate it in their language as well | 22:13 | |
| shapr | Disconnect: Still, I have other projects that are more likely to make the world a better place. | 22:13 |
| daniels | c0ffee: um, you do know that i'm from australia, right? | 22:13 |
| shapr | I thought the French did that more than others? "courielle" is email | 22:13 |
| c0ffee | daniels, no | 22:13 |
| c0ffee | daniels, why? | 22:13 |
| shapr | I'm from Alabama! | 22:14 |
| daniels | c0ffee: well, now you do. :) | 22:14 |
| shackan | shapr, they do | 22:14 |
| daniels | c0ffee: the native speakers thing | 22:14 |
| * Disconnect is just outside wash dc. | 22:14 | |
| shackan | shapr, what kind of projects? | 22:14 |
| shapr | shackan: Fermat's Last Margin lets people annotate research papers and share the annotations online. | 22:14 |
| framerate | Alabama woot! | 22:14 |
| c0ffee | daniels, ah, well that was unrelated to you | 22:14 |
| framerate | shapr: I'm trying to buy some land there :/ | 22:14 |
| daniels | c0ffee: oh, okay | 22:14 |
| c0ffee | it just came up in my mind | 22:14 |
| shackan | shapr, that's a nerd joke or it's for real? :) | 22:15 |
| * Disconnect was horrified by alabama. | 22:15 | |
| shapr | shackan: OfficeWindow is an always-on videoconferencing terminal that's designed to improve teamwork among distant offices in a company | 22:15 |
| shapr | shackan: Both, of course | 22:15 |
| shackan | cool | 22:15 |
| shapr | Disconnect: Alabama has its scary bits, but wash dc has scary bits that cost billions of dollars =) | 22:15 |
| * framerate spent a lot of his childhood in Alabama.. it's peaceful | 22:15 | |
| shapr | framerate: Whereat? | 22:16 |
| Disconnect | stopped at a dollar-store and riteaid (or some such) strip mall to try to find shotglasses and some snacks. i didn't stop shaking for HOURS after we got back on the road. | 22:16 |
| shapr | Sounds like you stopped in Arab :-) | 22:16 |
| Disconnect | and we didn't even stop for gas before we were out of the state. | 22:16 |
| Disconnect | "Pee later honey, we're FLEEING!" ;) | 22:16 |
| framerate | shapr: Northern Alabama, town called "Russellville". My family has owned land there for like 150 years, but I guess they might be selling some of it off | 22:16 |
| shapr | framerate: My mother lives in Muscle Shoals, I'm driving up there tomorrow. | 22:16 |
| framerate | ahh yes, like 30 minutes away I think? | 22:17 |
| shapr | shackan: I could go into a long list of interesting projects if you want to hear about 'em :-) | 22:17 |
| shapr | framerate: Yup, something like that. | 22:17 |
| framerate | The land i want is like all forest, with awesome clay roads and stuff.. build a cabin or something | 22:17 |
| shapr | Sounds like a good place to ride my mountain unicycle! | 22:17 |
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| framerate | just north of highway 24 :) | 22:18 |
| framerate | shapr: hah on dear | 22:18 |
| shackan | shapr, don't worry listing all of them, you're lucky to have so much free time tough :P | 22:18 |
| shapr | Oh I don't, I just have ideas and most of them don't get that far =) | 22:18 |
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| shapr | Inductrack is a recent development that got me creative juices going. It's worth reading about. | 22:19 |
| shapr | That and Halback Arrays, etc | 22:20 |
| Disconnect | shapr: if you have a pair of decent controllable radio you can do the basic localization test yourself. in theory, rssi readings will give you a circle centered on the base unit for your position. set it up in an 'ideal' setup (no barriers, etc) and work out the rssi->distance conversion. then try moving it, turning the antenna, etc.. it'll put you all over the map. | 22:20 |
| shapr | Disconnect: does anyone use rotating antennae? | 22:20 |
| Disconnect | i wouldn't be surprised if just leaving it sit still for a while showed wild (comparatively) variations in "position" - in our tests, with good radios, the at-rest variance tended to be 5-10 ft (with base nodes about every 20, plus some in offices and such) | 22:20 |
| shapr | ouch | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | shapr: when you are carrying something, its unlikely to be held perfectly oriented to the base... | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | plus you need ot be able to vary the tx strength | 22:21 |
| shapr | In that case, why use rssi? | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | shapr: instead of..? | 22:21 |
| shackan | shapr, Inductrack as in magnetic levitation transports ? (that's what wikipedia says at least) | 22:21 |
| shapr | Why not use a "local" GPS? | 22:21 |
| shapr | shackan: yup | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | like what? | 22:21 |
| shapr | I mean use your own GPS transmitters. | 22:22 |
| shapr | Maybe not on the same frequency, etc, but the basic principle of GPS gets around all those problems. | 22:22 |
| shackan | so you're looking for dedicated hardware, good luck | 22:23 |
| shapr | What about a coupla gnu usrps? | 22:23 |
| Disconnect | gps tells you the distance from a transmitter, given that the transmitter is in a known position/velocity and has an amazingly accurate clock. starting with $8-40k for the clock, that rapidly gets too expensive for any of the use-cases. | 22:23 |
| shapr | Is there a usable midpoint there? | 22:23 |
| shackan | usrpswhat ? | 22:24 |
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| daniels | jesus. the drought in australia's getting so bad that previously huge rivers have dried up enough that dead bodies are surfacing. | 22:24 |
| Disconnect | shapr: more base units make it easier to define a location (eg unit 4 throws everything off because Joe put his coffee cup on it, but thats ok because 1 and 3 can detect that and adjust the algo..) but thats why its still in the thesis stage | 22:24 |
| shapr | shackan: http://www.comsec.com/wiki?UniversalSoftwareRadioPeripheral | 22:25 |
| shackan | ahhhhh yes, damn acronyms | 22:25 |
| Disconnect | shapr: see my earlier examples.. building is simple, floor is easy, center-of-room is doable, edge-of-room is hard, specific location is near impossible | 22:25 |
| shapr | Disconnect: It still seems to me that there must be a cheaper than GPS but more exact than rssi midpoint. | 22:25 |
| * jonek appreciates the activity on the mailinglist | 22:25 | |
| jonek | afk | 22:26 |
| Disconnect | shapr: seriously, like what? | 22:26 |
| shapr | I'd investigate GPS with a cheaper clock, or find a way to make a cheaper clock more accurate. | 22:26 |
| shapr | But these suggestions may be worth exactly what you're paying for them. | 22:26 |
| * keesj appreciates the community here a lot | 22:27 | |
| Disconnect | gps works on relative distance based on speed-of-light transit times. for "local" gps you need -more- accurate clocks, not less... | 22:27 |
| shapr | I can think of a bunch of approaches that might increase the resolution of GPS. | 22:28 |
| shapr | Disconnect: We should talk about this when I don't have a deadline :-) | 22:29 |
| Disconnect | shapr: go one better.. grab a patent, come back and we'll make big money. | 22:29 |
| shapr | heh | 22:29 |
| shapr | I do have some patentable ideas, but I lack the connections to make a prototype :-( | 22:29 |
| sxpert | beware of lawyers | 22:30 |
| Disconnect | no, beware of the "inventors call now!" infomercials. for patents, its often not that bad to just hire a patent lawyer to knock out the funny bits. | 22:31 |
| sxpert | that too | 22:32 |
| jtokash | Is there a maemo mapper how to / introduction / review article somewhere? | 22:46 |
| framerate | jtokash: it hasn't officially been ported to N800 if that's what you're looking for | 22:46 |
| jtokash | Basically something that can give me an idea of its capabilities and reliability | 22:46 |
| jtokash | yep, I know | 22:46 |
| jtokash | I still have my 770. | 22:46 |
| jtokash | :-) | 22:46 |
| framerate | jtokash: best I've found is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1947&highlight=maemo+mapper | 22:47 |
| jtokash | I'm considering buying a bt gps and I need a little more convincing | 22:47 |
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| jtokash | :-) | 22:47 |
| jtokash | Thanks for the link, framerate | 22:47 |
| framerate | jtokash: no problem | 22:49 |
| jtokash | any suggestions for a bt gps? | 22:51 |
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| framerate | jtokash: I've had good luck with i-blue, like 79.99 | 22:52 |
| keesj | I have the adapt AD-300 (30 hours navigation , 16 channels), I find it a bit slow to find it's initial position | 22:53 |
| jtokash | thanks for the suggestions, framerate, keesj | 23:00 |
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| jtokash | It looks like I'll probably have to order online. Best Buy doesn't seem to have anything good. | 23:00 |
| jtokash | Maybe I'll take a trip to Fry's. | 23:00 |
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| cesman | framerate: this is the one right? http://www.buygpsnow.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=509 | 23:02 |
| cesman | you're using that w/ Maemo Mapper? | 23:02 |
| framerate | Yep | 23:07 |
| framerate | cesman: works fine with maemo mapper, and my macbook pro, AND my blackberry pearl | 23:07 |
| framerate | I'm happy with it, I think. Can't complain about anything specifically | 23:07 |
| cesman | cool | 23:10 |
| cesman | thanks! | 23:10 |
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| keesj | I found maemo mapper nice as toy but not really usable for driving or other things | 23:17 |
| jtokash | keesj, that's a bummer. Have you tried the official navigation bundle, too? | 23:18 |
| keesj | it is very hard (at least in holland) to find driving instructions. | 23:18 |
| Whiz | I think map rotation would increase the usability while driving | 23:18 |
| keesj | and i drive so fast that the gprs is not fast enough to download the images at the right time | 23:19 |
| keesj | also I have only been able to use google map data and I don't event know if it's allowed | 23:20 |
| keesj | no I did not try the navicore | 23:20 |
| keesj | Whiz, yes , but it would still be image based v.s. vector | 23:21 |
| Whiz | jep | 23:21 |
| jtokash | maybe I'll just wait for the n800 official | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | gpsdrive is for driving, maemo mapper is for .. mapping :) | 23:22 |
| framerate | Disconnect: what is gpsdrive? | 23:22 |
| keesj | So I like it when I walk the dog and use satellite maps | 23:22 |
| maihem | It would be cool if it detected how fast you were going and zoomed in/out as appropriate. | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | framerate: an app for driving. the idea for maemo mapper comes from gpsdrive (according to the homepage, don't get all wiggy at me about it :) ..) | 23:22 |
| keesj | It can be improved a lot but it's already quite nice | 23:23 |
| maihem | I just have to say, OMG, the n800 display and touch screen are soooo cool! I can't believe this thing is only £24 more than the 770. | 23:24 |
| keesj | But I find it interesting to see what happens with the navicore, I have not seen commercial software on open source very often | 23:24 |
| framerate | Disconnect: does gpsdrive actually keep the direction you're heading as the "top" ? | 23:25 |
| * Disconnect checks to make sure his nick hasn't mysteriously changed to 'google' ;) | 23:25 | |
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| * framerate cries | 23:25 | |
| Disconnect | don't cry, google is easy. just go to google.com and type in "gpsdrive" and hit "i feel lucky" | 23:26 |
| framerate | haha after I sent you maemo mapper you give me the "google" answer! | 23:26 |
| framerate | ;) | 23:26 |
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| Disconnect | or use the wiki | 23:27 |
| Disconnect | google didn't have the n800-compatible maemo mapper. i tried there first :) | 23:27 |
| * framerate goes to look up this new fangled "google" thing | 23:27 | |
| Disconnect | google it :) | 23:31 |
| klaatu | I was told that earlier in the week compusa had the n800 listed on the web, but now I can't find it, I called a few stores and they were clueless... | 23:33 |
| Disconnect | its with the cellphones (and the 770) .. i got lucky, the one near me knew what it was | 23:34 |
| tko | zuh, was your cairo benchmark on n800 with softfloat or hardfloat? | 23:35 |
| jtokash | klaatu, part number 344047 | 23:37 |
| jtokash | if that helps | 23:37 |
| klaatu | ah, thanks, I'll call them and as for that, thanks | 23:37 |
| klaatu | searching for that on the compusa.com doesn't find anything | 23:38 |
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| cesman | klaatu: where do you live? | 23:51 |
| klaatu | PA/NJ | 23:51 |
| cesman | other coast | 23:52 |
| cesman | I'm in Ca | 23:52 |
| Disconnect | klaatu: fwiw the one near baltimore has it :) | 23:52 |
| cesman | found them at my local compusa | 23:52 |
| klaatu | my dad went on the compusa site and found which stores had the n800, but when I looked nada | 23:52 |
| cesman | picked one up yesterday! | 23:52 |
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| framerate | Disconnect: this gpsdrive looks more like what I need for my car, do you know if the project author is still active? | 23:57 |
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