| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: MUD's my auto-builder for Maemo for relatively simple ports from upstream sources: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: interesting concept | 00:00 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: heh I know, I'm just not patient today :) | 00:00 |
| qgil | " Jaffa: I suspect it's all a ruse to get everyone running about releasing stuff they're sitting on." - I don't think so | 00:00 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: it's quite a bit like what I'm already doing now ;) | 00:01 |
| etrunko | http://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?p=136 | 00:01 |
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| Jaffa | The aim is two fold: a) simplify porting process for things like vim, privoxy, rsync, netcat, etc. and b) ensure that the mud-builder team (well, me ATM) are responsible for the headache of uploading them to the extras repo and other release management stuff once someone's done the interesting bit of doing a port. | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Ah, I seem to have left off the smiley ;-) | 00:01 |
| Aleksandyr | etrunko: bwhahahahah | 00:01 |
| etrunko | lol | 00:02 |
| qgil | Jaffa: just checking ;) | 00:02 |
| Jaffa | etrunko: heh | 00:02 |
| etrunko | "he's stolen my idea" | 00:02 |
| etrunko | :O | 00:02 |
| etrunko | hehe | 00:02 |
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| roope | bulk chat messenger would be great. | 00:03 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: if you fancy having a play in your totally unbusy hacking life, the Subversion's now up-to-date; should just be a case of checking it out into Scratchbox and doing './mud build cal' | 00:04 |
| koen | "cheap m4em0, by now" | 00:04 |
| koen | buy* | 00:04 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: The aim is that it'll fix debs so they're AI-compatible too (i.e Section: user/...), include X-Maemo-Icon etc. | 00:04 |
| framerate | gnuite posted a news update about maemo mapper, apparently it's being annoying to compile :( | 00:06 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: oh, I imagine I'll be contributing to mud before long --- if it works, I can obsolete myself ;) | 00:06 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: it sounds like mud could have done 75% of the lifting as far as JamVM/etf | 00:06 |
| koen | framerate: note the irony on that | 00:06 |
| Aleksandyr | s/etf/etc | 00:06 |
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| tzz | I got the entire Maemo 3.0 environment running, it was not too bad in the end. Thanks to everyone for the help. | 00:09 |
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| c0ffee | \o/ | 00:09 |
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| Aleksandyr | I thought one of the changes in Maemo 3.0 brought about an improved maemo-installer script ;) | 00:09 |
| tzz | xephyr runs too | 00:09 |
| c0ffee | xephyr for gentoo is USE="kdrive" emerge xorg-server | 00:10 |
| tzz | it's pretty good, I just had to ignore the scratchbox.org docs :) | 00:10 |
| tzz | basically, just `apt-get install scratchbox-core scratchbox-devkit-debian scratchbox-devkit-doctools scratchbox-devkit-perl scratchbox-libs scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm scratchbox-devkit-cputransp scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 xserver-xephyr' | 00:11 |
| * Aleksandyr is rather hoping that the eclipse-scratchbox integration project will work with M3.0 ;) | 00:11 | |
| tzz | and then I ran the installer script, and everything worked | 00:11 |
| framerate | I'm off.. cheers guys | 00:11 |
| Aleksandyr | later framerate | 00:12 |
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| kender | guerby, what is what osso-xterm haven't got and xterm yes? | 00:22 |
| guerby | kender, osso-xterm has probably a smoother interface to the N770/800 virtual keyboard that a regular xterm | 00:23 |
| guerby | kender, otherwise it's just an xterm | 00:23 |
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| kender | guerby, then, why you want xterm? | 00:25 |
| guerby | kender, ps, top, cp, mv, dmesg, dd, cat, more .... | 00:25 |
| kender | I see | 00:25 |
| guerby | kender, old time unix user :) | 00:25 |
| kender | I know them | 00:26 |
| kender | I love them | 00:26 |
| kender | hehehe | 00:26 |
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| atla | hi | 00:26 |
| guerby | dpkg -l > dpkg-n800.txt etc | 00:26 |
| kender | yes | 00:26 |
| kender | :) | 00:26 |
| guerby | ssh to another unix machine | 00:26 |
| guerby | etc | 00:26 |
| kender | scp | 00:26 |
| kender | ;-) | 00:26 |
| kender | or...cat with ssh | 00:26 |
| kender | hehe | 00:26 |
| atla | any information yet available on the n800 developer device program? are only approved developers receiving codes? | 00:26 |
| guerby | kender, I use rsync | 00:27 |
| kender | guerby, but, those doesn't come with busybox? | 00:27 |
| guerby | kender, they're on applicationcatalog2006 | 00:27 |
| guerby | I assume they'll soon be here for n800 | 00:27 |
| kender | hehe | 00:27 |
| guerby | hey first browser crash | 00:28 |
| Aleksandyr | atla: I have yet to hear of anyone receiving a code | 00:28 |
| guerby | on nokia.com/support ... | 00:28 |
| atla | hmk | 00:28 |
| kender | guerby, hehe | 00:28 |
| kender | Interesting | 00:28 |
| atla | but i guess only developers are receiving them that already wrote software using the maemo platform? | 00:28 |
| kender | one of their product crashing in their own page | 00:29 |
| kender | hehe | 00:29 |
| Aleksandyr | atla: nobody knows the judging criteria, but that is the assumption, yes | 00:29 |
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| atla | k thx | 00:30 |
| gpd | OS2007 Tested Apps page says python 2.4 from maemo repository -- i don't see it - do they mean minstral? | 00:30 |
| atla | any speculations yet about nokia reducing the price of the 770 more than 350e | 00:31 |
| kender | guerby, what kernel does n800 have? | 00:31 |
| gpd | kender: 2.6.18-imap1 | 00:32 |
| kender | :) great | 00:32 |
| gpd | s/imap/omap/ | 00:32 |
| guerby | kender cat /proc/version says 2.6.18-omap1 compiled 19Dec2006 | 00:32 |
| kender | thanks! | 00:32 |
| guerby | I have 2.2006.51-6 (out of the box no upgrade) | 00:32 |
| gpd | so in general -- should mistral stuff work on bora if it doesn't use any graphics? [rule of thumb?] | 00:33 |
| qgil | atla, do you think there are 500 developers that have already written code using the maemo platform? | 00:34 |
| atla | hm | 00:34 |
| atla | would be my guess | 00:34 |
| atla | if you only refer to it as "written code using maemo platform" :) | 00:35 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: There are easily 500 developers by that definition ;) | 00:35 |
| atla | not in terms of written a whole usable application | 00:35 |
| atla | yep | 00:35 |
| qgil | atla: I was quoting you :) | 00:35 |
| guerby | wow flasher-2.0 is 495344 bytes and 3.0 is 40236 | 00:35 |
| atla | :P | 00:36 |
| atla | hm | 00:36 |
| kender | guerby, flasher 2.0 is static | 00:36 |
| kender | guerby, flasher 3.0 dinamic | 00:36 |
| kender | that's all | 00:36 |
| guerby | kender, probably | 00:36 |
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| guerby | interesting I didn't have to upgrade the OS, so I guess only early built N800 have an older firmware | 00:37 |
| gpd | guerby: i got mine on sunday and it was 47.20 | 00:37 |
| kender | so, mine will have it the last, nice :) | 00:38 |
| guerby | gpd, orderer monday got it today (could have been tuesday if I had catched the UPS guy), came from brussels | 00:38 |
| gpd | so should i add the mistral repository to my app manager to install some of these 'tested 2007' apps? | 00:39 |
| gpd | i am slightly disturbed by this | 00:39 |
| guerby | gpd me too so I didn't do it, I just added the suggested bora one for X Term | 00:39 |
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| guerby | no other for now | 00:40 |
| gpd | i suppose i can just reflash it -- i fear the brick | 00:40 |
| guerby | gpd, I'm not that in a hurry, still things to play with without fear of breaking :) | 00:40 |
| gpd | ya -- but i am a day ahead of you ;) | 00:41 |
| atla | there are lots of apps in the applicationcatalog | 00:41 |
| gpd | bored already! (joke) | 00:41 |
| atla | (regarding the amount of maemo developers) | 00:41 |
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| gpd | atla: on the tested page it says python -- but the .deb from mistral has dependencies - so would require a hunt and gather | 00:41 |
| Aleksandyr | atla: application catalog + garage + ITT + #maemo + [maemo-developers] | 00:42 |
| atla | yeah | 00:42 |
| guerby | gpd, you're braver than me :) | 00:42 |
| atla | so enough | 00:42 |
| atla | well | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | + open source people contributing to the underlying software (apparently) | 00:42 |
| atla | is opengl available on maemo? | 00:42 |
| keesj | nope | 00:42 |
| atla | not even some kind of mesa? | 00:42 |
| keesj | i don't think so | 00:43 |
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| Jaffa | Some simple Debian packages have fubared dependencies. Building netcat ultimately depends on tk | 00:45 |
| framerate | Anyone got xtem working on n800 after flashing to os update? | 00:45 |
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| guerby | framerate, I didn't have to flash since mine came with 2.2006.51-6 and I have no pb with xterm from bora | 00:46 |
| framerate | Hmm mine worked before the flash:( | 00:47 |
| framerate | Yeah i got it from bora :( | 00:48 |
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| catoblepa | hi.. | 00:48 |
| kender | any way to rescue of a fail flashing process? | 00:48 |
| kender | If you reboot it, I mean | 00:49 |
| kender | for example, like the boot_wait of the linksys routers | 00:49 |
| kender | or, similar | 00:49 |
| guerby | framerate, how does it fail? did you try the usual: ./flasher-2.0 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 00:50 |
| guerby | (flasher-3.0) | 00:50 |
| catoblepa | I've a little question: which is the name of wireless gui in my nokia. I try to find it with ps but I failed :P | 00:50 |
| framerate | Xterm fails when i try to run it, os is fine | 00:51 |
| nomis | catoblepa: you mean the applet in the top of the desktop window? | 00:52 |
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| guerby | framerate, no idea then | 00:54 |
| catoblepa | nomis: yes | 00:54 |
| framerate | "Internal Error" | 00:54 |
| guerby | framerate, I assume you tried uninstall/reinstall :) | 00:55 |
| keesj | b.v. emerge -pv dev-util/git wordt zonder http support gebruild | 00:55 |
| keesj | oops | 00:55 |
| framerate | 3 times ha | 00:55 |
| framerate | Brb trying reboot ha | 00:55 |
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| nomis | catoblepa: a lot of this stuff runs as a plugin in the desktop process. | 00:57 |
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| framerate | Nope, still no xterm | 00:58 |
| Aleksandyr | anyone know where the list of Maemo/Hildon stock icons are? All I can get are the GTK ones | 00:59 |
| catoblepa | nomis: yes, but if I would know which is the executable that draw the gui? | 01:00 |
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| metajack | hey all. just got an N800 and set up the dev environment :) this thing rocks | 01:01 |
| nomis | catoblepa: there is no "executable" for the gui, just a "shared object". You won't see this in the process listing. | 01:02 |
| metajack | should i be worried about the copious errors when doing af-sb-start.sh and running maemo_hello? | 01:02 |
| Jaffa | No | 01:02 |
| metajack | like "Failed to load plugin Contact Plugin" | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | That's fine | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | The Contact plugin only exists on the device itself | 01:03 |
| metajack | ok. so its not expected that i test things in the emulator? :) | 01:04 |
| metajack | or at least nothing that uses the contact plugin, etc | 01:04 |
| Jaffa | No, the contact plugin isn't part of Maemo: it's Nokia value-add | 01:04 |
| catoblepa | nomis: thanks. can I have the source of this "shared object"? (I don't know if the sources are free, really) | 01:06 |
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| metajack | what about: "maemo-launcher: error rising the oom shield" or "matchbox: WARNING: failed to load /usr/share/matchbox/mbnoapp.xpm" | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Sounds fine | 01:07 |
| metajack | "execl: No such file or directory" ? | 01:08 |
| * metajack is just trying to make sure everything is set up correctly :) | 01:08 | |
| Jaffa | If it works, it's right ;-) | 01:08 |
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| metajack | well the image i got was different from that in the docs slightly. i was missing the little contact app icon on the left side. other than that it seemed to be the same. | 01:09 |
| framerate2 | So noone has seen or heard anything about other people having trouble with xterm with the newest N800 OS? | 01:09 |
| framerate2 | I find it odd I'd be the only one | 01:09 |
| metajack | i figured i'd make sure the errors didn't mean i missed a piece | 01:09 |
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| framerate2 | Xterm is kinda crucial | 01:10 |
| framerate2 | I didn't think this tablet would give me this much of a headache :( | 01:13 |
| * framerate2 cries in the corner. | 01:14 | |
| keesj | framerate2, perhaps you can install ssh and see what the error is? | 01:14 |
| keesj | hmm you need a password I guess | 01:15 |
| framerate2 | How would I start ssh without the xterm? | 01:15 |
| nomis | catoblepa: neither do I. | 01:15 |
| framerate2 | It worked yesterday, prior to my memory card crash and white screen of death and then OS reinstall | 01:15 |
| keesj | on the 770 is is started by default if you installed openssh | 01:15 |
| framerate2 | anyone know if compusa offers a satisfaction based return? | 01:18 |
| tzz | sometimes, but you may get hit with a restocking fee, 15% | 01:18 |
| tzz | I boycott CompUSA personally | 01:18 |
| framerate2 | ouch | 01:18 |
| tzz | that's why I ordered my N800 from Nokia direct | 01:19 |
| framerate2 | I just want this thing to work so bad :( | 01:19 |
| framerate2 | Is there a way to clear the memory on the device without hooking up to USB ? maybe something else is messedup, could clear memory and start fresh with xterm first? | 01:20 |
| tzz | try looking at logs with the web browser, using file:/// | 01:20 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, interesting: FM radio in N800? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28776 Certainly seems to have the s/w support | 01:20 |
| tzz | don't know much about clearing without a reinstall though, sorry | 01:20 |
| framerate2 | where would the relevent log files be for a crashing app? | 01:22 |
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| tzz | don't know, /var/log usually but Maemo doesn't store much log data IIRC | 01:24 |
| framerate2 | yeah, nothing there either :( | 01:25 |
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| framerate2 | I don't understand how noone else is having trouble with N800 and xterm yet :( I seem to be the only one | 01:25 |
| c0ffee | noone has a N800 | 01:26 |
| Jaffa | Everyone's waiting, with baited breath, for the lucky dip. | 01:27 |
| framerate2 | quite a few people have it here and on the forums... and they all seem to have xterm working :( | 01:27 |
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| framerate2 | and I had it yesterday, before OS update | 01:27 |
| Jaffa | framerate2: OK, noone awake has an N800 :-( | 01:27 |
| framerate2 | hah except me, with ANOTHER problem | 01:27 |
| gpd | i have n800 | 01:27 |
| c0ffee | noone that might be able to help you | 01:27 |
| tzz | hey this is REALLY cool. I just compiled Emacs CVS (22) and it works with the i386 target! Menus, etc. are working under GTK, including tear-off menus. I'm compiling for ARM right now to see if that will work. | 01:27 |
| gpd | working xterm | 01:27 |
| framerate2 | gpd did you flash to newest OS? | 01:28 |
| gpd | yes | 01:28 |
| framerate2 | I flashed yesterday after all my mem card problems, and today put xterm back on and it won't load | 01:28 |
| Jaffa | tzz: if you look at my Sylpheed changes you'll see the easiest way of Hildonising it. Check the Subversion link off http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed | 01:28 |
| c0ffee | why is there no gazpacho in bora? | 01:28 |
| gpd | osso-xterm works for me - | 01:28 |
| gpd | let me check version number | 01:29 |
| gpd | 0.13.mh13bora2 | 01:29 |
| tzz | thanks Jaffa, I'll look into it. I don't think it needs much, really, to be useful, just key remapping and an icon. Everything I tested works under the x86 target. | 01:30 |
| tzz | jaffa: so I may build something quickly for people to use, and then work on hildonizing it little by little | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | tzz: makes sense | 01:31 |
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| framerate2 | gpd: where you get that version? all I see is 0.13.mh13 from maemo.org bora repos | 01:34 |
| framerate2 | I don't see the bora2 version | 01:34 |
| tzz | Emacs has stuff like ERC, Gnus, etc. that don't need external software to provide functionality, so this could be very useful. I work in the Gnus project and know all about it: you can set up multiple IMAP and NNTP sources (among others). My main concern is keyboard accessibility, I may need to add something like the XTerm "send control char" menu. | 01:34 |
| tzz | with the 770 this wouldn't work, not enough memory, but 128 MB RAM should be enough for a functional Emacs. | 01:34 |
| trenka | I was running emacs and gnus on 770 | 01:35 |
| hub | tzz: more that enough | 01:35 |
| ntrs | framerate2, osso-xterm for bora works fine on my N800 too. | 01:36 |
| tzz | trenka: I didn't know about an Emacs package for the 770, I would have used that | 01:36 |
| framerate2 | ntrs did you reflash to the new OS that came out monday? | 01:36 |
| ntrs | framerate2, and SSH and pretty much any other mistral application (770) I installed | 01:36 |
| framerate2 | everything else works except xterm, it worked before the flash | 01:36 |
| ntrs | Yes, I reflashed to the latest version, the one that came out monday | 01:36 |
| trenka | I did not make a package. Just make; make install. Remove unneeded and copy to /usr/local on 770 | 01:37 |
| framerate2 | well I don't understand why it's working for you then :( | 01:37 |
| trenka | Just to check if it is possible | 01:37 |
| framerate2 | I can't do anything without a terminal :( | 01:37 |
| tzz | trenka: I didn't get scratchbox working with Maemo 2.x (my kernel was too new) so I never got that working. Oh well, with Maemo 3.x I should be able to start building packages. | 01:38 |
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| c0ffee | i know a good slogan for maemo | 01:39 |
| trenka | but you should be crasy to enter emacs keybindings with virtual keyboard | 01:40 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee ? | 01:40 |
| c0ffee | maemo - error messages are to be ignored | 01:40 |
| trenka | I do not remember them, my fingers do | 01:40 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: hehe | 01:41 |
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| tzz | trenka: bt keyboard is a must with Emacs, yes. But I may map the menu button to M-x for example, and add a menu to send Control and Meta keys, while I'm Hildonizing it. | 01:41 |
| trenka | tzz: you are welcome :) | 01:42 |
| tzz | good night all, thanks for all the help | 01:42 |
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| metajack | is python not set up by default in scratchbox? trying to go through the python_maemo_howto.html | 01:46 |
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| framerate2 | ok once again, uninstall, reboot, update catalog, reinstall. Same thing. "Internal error. Application 'X Terminal' closed" | 01:47 |
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| framerate2 | if anyone knows any log files I could browse with browser, that'd be great | 01:47 |
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| dieguito-zzz | I just installed a maemo 3.0 scratchbox, and it fails to open the file: [/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel/personalisation.desktop] when I click on Themes, what could be happening? | 01:51 |
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| c0ffee | do you need that file? | 01:53 |
| c0ffee | i.e. would it help you with your development? | 01:54 |
| dieguito-zzz | no, but I wanted to know if it's a bug or it's intended to be like that | 01:54 |
| dieguito-zzz | so I can either report it or ignore it | 01:54 |
| c0ffee | as i said earlier | 01:54 |
| c0ffee | 00:40 < c0ffee> maemo - error messages are to be ignored | 01:54 |
| dieguito-zzz | hmm sorry I missed that | 01:55 |
| c0ffee | nevermind :) | 01:55 |
| dieguito-zzz | thanks :) | 01:55 |
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| framerate2 | but c0ffee I can't ignore my error message o.O | 01:57 |
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| c0ffee | what's your error anyway? | 02:00 |
| c0ffee | besides xterm doesn't work | 02:00 |
| framerate2 | "Internal Error" is my xterm error :( | 02:00 |
| framerate2 | that's it, right now | 02:00 |
| framerate2 | I've managed to fix all the other problems but this one seems impossible | 02:00 |
| c0ffee | what are you doing when this error appears? | 02:01 |
| framerate2 | opening xterm :( | 02:01 |
| c0ffee | are you using osso-xterm or some other xterm? | 02:03 |
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| framerate2 | osso-xterm from maemo.org's bora repos on a N800 that was flashed to the updated OS yesterday | 02:03 |
| framerate2 | it worked prior to the update | 02:03 |
| Fogles | ***P®ÅÑK§ @ vÊÑt.¹ÇÎ.ÇÔm:³³² - P®ÅÑK§, GÅMÎÑG, ®ÅGÎÑG, §TÎÇKÅM ®ÅGÎÑG, F®ÊÊ ÇÅFÊÅÇÇÔÛÑT GÎVÊÅWÅ¥ | 02:03 |
| framerate2 | but others here have updated and it is working for them | 02:04 |
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| c0ffee | oh my god | 02:04 |
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| c0ffee | framerate2, did you really just reflash and install the osso-xterm | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | framerate2, or did you restore some profile data or do something else | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | framerate2, might be worth trying to get your device in a virgin state again | 02:07 |
| dieguito-zzz | holy | 02:07 |
| framerate2 | I didn't restore anything, I reflashed and installed 3-4 apps back on (since it's new) | 02:07 |
| framerate2 | I left my USB cable at the office, not sure if I have one around here to use to reflash | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | it's a std usb cable | 02:07 |
| framerate2 | yep, we just moved :( | 02:08 |
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| framerate2 | Do you know if the winodws install from Nokia will allow to reflash (as opposed to upgrade?) | 02:10 |
| c0ffee | what do you mean by reflash? | 02:10 |
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| framerate2 | figured I'd need to reflash the OS to get it in a fresh state? | 02:11 |
| framerate2 | Both my linux machines are monitorless, just windows and osx | 02:11 |
| c0ffee | well | 02:11 |
| c0ffee | last time i used the windows flasher, you had to point it at a firmware image, and it would just flash that image to the device | 02:12 |
| c0ffee | just as the linux flasher does | 02:12 |
| Jaffa | Right, mud's vaguely working; everything's checked in - time for bed. | 02:12 |
| framerate2 | alright, I'll try that. thanks c0ffee | 02:12 |
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| c0ffee | good luck :) | 02:14 |
| Jaffa | ditto :) | 02:14 |
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| Aleksandyr | ugh. These past three hours of pipe hacking remind me of why I stopped writing C in the first place | 02:23 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm fairly sure normal people don't fantasize about going back in time and shooting whoever decided to make linux pipes unidirectional. | 02:24 |
| c0ffee | haha | 02:25 |
| c0ffee | you just ruined my night, man | 02:25 |
| c0ffee | i'll have nightmares of bidirectional pipes | 02:25 |
| Aleksandyr | haha | 02:25 |
| c0ffee | you can't possible imagine the pain of that | 02:25 |
| Aleksandyr | in Inferno, it's trivial ;) other kernels I could see being problematic | 02:26 |
| Aleksandyr | if we had Inferno-style channels, this mplayer GUI would be finished by now | 02:26 |
| c0ffee | but having send and receive on different channels is so much nicer | 02:26 |
| Aleksandyr | not when you haven't written a C pipes app in...three years? | 02:27 |
| Aleksandyr | and in the intervening time have grown used to popen2,3,4. | 02:27 |
| c0ffee | well | 02:28 |
| c0ffee | you can hack together such a functions in no time | 02:28 |
| Aleksandyr | don't get me started on (FILE *) versus FD. | 02:28 |
| c0ffee | open the desires pipes | 02:28 |
| c0ffee | fork | 02:28 |
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| c0ffee | close std(in,out,err) | 02:28 |
| c0ffee | execle | 02:28 |
| Aleksandyr | not in daemonspace, where the usual algorithms fail miserably FVR. | 02:28 |
| c0ffee | whatever that means | 02:29 |
| Aleksandyr | For Various Reasons. | 02:29 |
| c0ffee | and daemonspace? | 02:29 |
| c0ffee | i only know einstein space and hyper space | 02:29 |
| c0ffee | anyway :) | 02:29 |
| c0ffee | i think i should hit the bed | 02:29 |
| Aleksandyr | userspace, daemonspace, kernelspace, and good night :D | 02:30 |
| c0ffee | linux doesnt have daemonspace | 02:30 |
| Aleksandyr | erm, yes it does. Not as explicitly as userspace and kernelspace | 02:30 |
| c0ffee | so how does daemonspace differ from userspace? | 02:30 |
| Aleksandyr | the big one would be standard I/O/E are closed. | 02:31 |
| Aleksandyr | closed-slash-mean-different-things. | 02:31 |
| c0ffee | mhm | 02:31 |
| c0ffee | sounds a bit academic to me | 02:31 |
| Aleksandyr | writeup of the problem I hit: http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/remap-pipe-fds.html | 02:31 |
| Aleksandyr | I will grant you it's an odd problem. | 02:32 |
| c0ffee | hehe | 02:33 |
| c0ffee | ok | 02:33 |
| c0ffee | so daemonspace is where you really have to think before you hack | 02:33 |
| Aleksandyr | yes, as opposed to hacking, releasing, and -then- thinking. Maybe. :D | 02:34 |
| c0ffee | it compiles! ship it | 02:34 |
| c0ffee | g'night | 02:34 |
| Aleksandyr | 'night! | 02:36 |
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| pokute_ | Wow. I just had an *revelation* | 02:42 |
| Jaffa | oh? | 02:42 |
| pokute_ | An new IM for touchscreened devices. | 02:42 |
| pokute_ | Or rather dasher with pressure sensitivity for speed. :-D | 02:43 |
| Jaffa | Ah, neat idea. | 02:43 |
| pokute_ | You could use it with left or right hand thumb when holding it. | 02:43 |
| Jaffa | Go on then :) | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | There's nice docs on how to do an IM for Maemo 3 now | 02:44 |
| pokute_ | Does maemo3 work for 770 too? | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | nope | 02:45 |
| pokute_ | Will it, after all, it's a bit different than IT2007? | 02:45 |
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| Jaffa | Maemo 3 is the base for IT2007. Bit of Maemo 3 might be able to run on IT2006 (if we hack 'em) | 02:46 |
| * Jaffa definitely beds now. | 02:46 | |
| Jaffa | g'nigt | 02:46 |
| pokute_ | That was what I was thinking too. | 02:47 |
| pokute_ | For example, maemo 3 may have api improvements that 770 could benefir of too. | 02:47 |
| Pio | has nokia given word on their intention to backport features from maemo 3 to the 770 releases? | 02:48 |
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| pokute_ | I think API stuff is most likely, as anything that would mean new appliactions for 770 which would also benefit N800 | 02:51 |
| Pio | yeah good point | 02:51 |
| Pio | cant split their developer community | 02:51 |
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| NickDe | I met hulk hogan today at ces.. I'm special; | 03:29 |
| NickDe | he smashed my n800 on the floor | 03:29 |
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| metajack | the maemo python docs say to download the python runtime from maemo.org, but i can't seem to find it. does anyone know where it is? | 03:37 |
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| kakos | Is there a way to figure out what method_call's a particular object has available for dbus? | 04:14 |
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| _k-s_ | kakos_: if it object provides the introspection interface, yes | 05:51 |
| _k-s_ | kakos_: check the manual | 05:51 |
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| framerate | Is maemo gui done using gtk or seperate usually? | 05:54 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: yes, maemo apps uses gtk | 05:57 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: but some apps don't, like games or canola, that are made using SDL | 05:57 |
| framerate | Hm, reasonable to code an app from scratch in sdl?l | 06:00 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: depends on what you want | 06:00 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: what kind of app? | 06:00 |
| framerate | Ive never coded gtk but i'm pretty good w/ sdl | 06:00 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: so you know you don't have widgets and so with sdl, right? | 06:01 |
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| _k-s_ | framerate: canola was easier to write in SDL, because it doesn't fit GTK UI | 06:01 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: and doing in GDK is a pain | 06:01 |
| framerate | I was thinking of starting with a gui to fceu or something else, to get my feet wet in maemo | 06:02 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: you could also try Evas and EW (Enlightenment Widgets)... | 06:02 |
| daniels | please god no | 06:02 |
| framerate | Oo | 06:02 |
| framerate | No? | 06:02 |
| _k-s_ | daniels: no what? | 06:02 |
| _k-s_ | daniels: sdl or what? | 06:02 |
| daniels | shipping evas and the e widgets with the device ... | 06:02 |
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| _k-s_ | daniels: why not? | 06:03 |
| _k-s_ | daniels: evas is not 16bpp optmized, that's the only problem I see | 06:03 |
| _k-s_ | daniels: it's small, fast and easy to work with | 06:03 |
| framerate | If sdl_ttf and sdl_image are supported i could port my w.i.p rpg engine too | 06:04 |
| _k-s_ | daniels: at least evas | 06:04 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: it is | 06:04 |
| _k-s_ | http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi | 06:04 |
| _k-s_ | http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem-live.avi | 06:04 |
| framerate | swell :) | 06:04 |
| _k-s_ | this rocks man... really rocks | 06:04 |
| framerate | Ill have to checkout those libs too | 06:06 |
| framerate | Are you the canola dev? | 06:06 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: one of the canola devs | 06:07 |
| framerate | Im eager to try it. Hows n800 progress coming? | 06:08 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: it will be released when it's ready :-) | 06:09 |
| _k-s_ | I hope it's soon | 06:09 |
| framerate | Me too ^^ | 06:10 |
| framerate | That and mapper are the two apps that made me actually buy the platform :) | 06:10 |
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| kakos_ | _k_s_: Any idea if osso_email implements the introspection interface? Or, alternatively, where I can find the D-BUS API for it? | 06:14 |
| framerate | Night guys | 06:17 |
| _k-s_ | framerate: good... we want to help them sell more devices :-D | 06:18 |
| framerate | :) | 06:18 |
| _k-s_ | kakos_: i don't know... api is at dbus.freedesktop.org | 06:18 |
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| kakos_ | Yeah. I've been sifting through that without much luck, unfortunately | 06:20 |
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| gpd | not sure how it happened by all my feeds are gone? | 06:23 |
| gpd | the machine was in a drawer and upon taking it out - no feeds... | 06:23 |
| gpd | .osso_rss_feed_reader/feedList.opml - has xml outline only | 06:23 |
| gpd | hmm... just went to feed directory - and they are all there -- subscribed again -- but lost folders/categories - very weird | 06:25 |
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| kakos_ | Does anyone by chance know how to get the email application to recieve mail from the command line? | 07:15 |
| * gpd wonders if there is a reason why there is no option to keep the display bright always - when plugged in | 07:23 | |
| * gpd wonders if there is a wishlist on the wiki for this random crap | 07:24 | |
| _k-s_ | kakos_: receive mail? | 07:25 |
| _k-s_ | gpd: you can emit false mouse clicks or call dbus method for that... just don't recall which one | 07:26 |
| _k-s_ | gpd: maemo tutorial have that | 07:26 |
| _k-s_ | gpd: you can then write a small app that listen for battery charging message, then call the method to keep display on | 07:26 |
| gpd | _k-s_: but do you think they did it for a reason? eg. light burn out or something weird? | 07:26 |
| _k-s_ | gpd: dunno | 07:27 |
| _k-s_ | :-( | 07:27 |
| _k-s_ | now to sleep... it's 2:30am here | 07:27 |
| gpd | k bye | 07:27 |
| _k-s_ | I have to work on canola tommorow... autotools sux hard | 07:27 |
| _k-s_ | to get right | 07:27 |
| gpd | i am just getting started playing again - only 9:30pm here | 07:27 |
| _k-s_ | people often just copy & paste autoconf macros around, that sucks even more | 07:28 |
| * _k-s_ like scons | 07:28 | |
| *** _k-s_ is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 07:28 | |
| metajack | scons is indeed much nicer | 07:28 |
| metajack | but still not quite mature enough for every project | 07:28 |
| metajack | i still have autoconf nightmares :( | 07:29 |
| k-s[AWAY] | metajack: ok, scons is not mature for every project... | 07:30 |
| k-s[AWAY] | metajack: but autotools are not mature for any project | 07:30 |
| metajack | haha :) | 07:30 |
| gpd | how do you get apt to show you *new* packages from the last update - ie packages not seen before -- in aptitude it is search '~N' or something odd - i suppose i could just dump packages before and after and grep | 07:31 |
| k-s[AWAY] | metajack: mixing that much of languages, one inside another, sucks hard | 07:31 |
| metajack | i'm not defending autoconf :) | 07:31 |
| k-s[AWAY] | at least scons is python, plain python | 07:31 |
| metajack | or at least that was not my intention | 07:31 |
| k-s[AWAY] | metajack: I know personally one of the original autoconf dev... even he has nightmares | 07:31 |
| k-s[AWAY] | gotta go | 07:32 |
| metajack | is ther ea javascript console for opera? i have a pretty complicated js app that _almost_ works. would be nice to see why it's failing | 07:37 |
| metajack | (it works on the wii opera fine) | 07:37 |
| pigeon | normal desktop opera you mean? | 07:38 |
| pigeon | iirc it's in the "error console" window, it shows js errors as well as css errors. | 07:39 |
| kakos_ | _k-s_: Yeah. I want to tell the email application to go get any new mail from the server from the command line. | 07:43 |
| jtokash | metajack, the 770 opera's opera.ini when told to store the js error log on disk ignores you | 07:43 |
| kakos_ | I think there's a dbus facility for it, but I can't figure it out, unfortunately. | 07:43 |
| jtokash | I haven't tried the 800's settings yet | 07:44 |
| gpd | jtokash: what new discoveries? | 07:45 |
| gpd | i liked your google reader page -- very nice | 07:45 |
| jtokash | not much new going on. Did you listen to thoughtfix's interview with nokia | 07:46 |
| metajack | jtokash: i'll have to try that | 07:46 |
| gpd | no - read the transcript - will have a listen | 07:47 |
| jtokash | anyone else having lots of crashes when using the audioplayer applet on the n800? | 07:47 |
| jtokash | driving me nuts | 07:47 |
| metajack | i haven't used it much. i just got it yesterday :) | 07:47 |
| metajack | i spent several hours today getting the dev env set up | 07:47 |
| gpd | jtokash: what kind of media are you playing? | 07:48 |
| jtokash | shoutcast | 07:48 |
| jtokash | I think. | 07:48 |
| jtokash | somafm whatever that uses | 07:48 |
| keesj | Hi | 07:49 |
| metajack | wow.. somafm is old :) | 07:49 |
| metajack | i remember that from back in the day :) | 07:49 |
| jtokash | I just started listening to them. Their groove salad is good | 07:51 |
| metajack | i recommend globalpopconspiracy.com | 07:52 |
| metajack | they also have a vorbis stream | 07:52 |
| gpd | have you found a way to add the streams to the player without ending up with just an ip address? | 07:52 |
| metajack | i believe that the 3 stations from virgin are also available in vorbis too (the three that nokia promotes on the tabby site) | 07:52 |
| gpd | something like streamtuner would be nice -- gives you all the stations right there | 07:53 |
| gpd | i suppose there must be a site that aggregates them | 07:53 |
| metajack | well dir.xiph.org has an interface for xml stream listings for that directory | 07:53 |
| metajack | you need regexp foo for the shoutcast directory | 07:54 |
| metajack | s/foo/fu/ | 07:54 |
| metajack | and last i checked they still banned your ip if they caught you doing it | 07:54 |
| gpd | - here is another random idea - how about a nokia light httpd for local browsing of stuff --- with sql sync when back online | 07:56 |
| keesj | sql sync? | 07:58 |
| gpd | well -- say you had a mediawiki/drupal install - you could 'sync' the mysql to the latest version when going back online | 07:59 |
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| gpd | not really thought it through - just random noise in my head :% | 08:00 |
| keesj | I do like the rss kind of feeds to read slashdot. | 08:00 |
| metajack | might be better off just copying a tiddlywiki back and forth. | 08:00 |
| metajack | i imagine opera has good enough js for that | 08:01 |
| keesj | I seem to be one of the few users happy with opera. js support is great IMHO | 08:02 |
| pahartik | keesj: I like Opera of Maemo... it is most useful application that comes with it | 08:05 |
| pahartik | keesj: though I have disabled javascript | 08:05 |
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| keesj | pahartik, why , if I may ask? | 08:05 |
| pahartik | keesj: I prefer sites and documents to have predictable behaviour... | 08:07 |
| pahartik | keesj: my default browser (on devices with full keyboard) is Lynx | 08:08 |
| jtokash | I wish youtube worked | 08:09 |
| keesj | I see , I will not play for elisa and ask how that makes you feel :) | 08:09 |
| pahartik | keesj: um... what? | 08:10 |
| keesj | does anybody use http://www.getdemocracy.com/ on there pc? | 08:10 |
| keesj | pahartik, it is just no my choice. | 08:11 |
| pahartik | keesj: that sounds like freedom... but I did not understand that reference to "elisa" | 08:13 |
| keesj | elisa was this Artificial intelligence program. Of course it did not care about what your problems where. but when it did not know what to answer it would say things like "how does that make you feel" . perhaps if my spelling was better you would have understood . Here is a javascript :) version http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html | 08:16 |
| pahartik | keesj: oh, I see... :) | 08:17 |
| keesj | lol | 08:18 |
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| keesj | I think links or links2 supports mouse event so that might be a good alternative for you | 08:21 |
| pahartik | keesj: Lynx supports navigation by pointer device... "w3m" does too... | 08:25 |
| pahartik | keesj: but Opera of Maemo is well adapted for that environment | 08:27 |
| keesj | The ability to scroll anywhere on the screen is what makes it usable for me. Some 770 applkication don't do that | 08:29 |
| keesj | I guess the Hildon framework doesn't | 08:29 |
| pahartik | keesj: I configured arrow keys to scroll on Opera by default (left/right and page up/down)... that was improvement, as I do not always have to hold stylus to move across document | 08:32 |
| keesj | pahartik, what is this w3m thing , it displays images in my xterm http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/w3m.png | 08:34 |
| pahartik | keesj: two problems I have encountered with Opera of Maemo: I could not make it to switch between "Author mode" and "User mode" while running... and I did not find way to edit cookies (if I accidentally accepted unwanted cookie and wanted to get rid of it immediately) | 08:35 |
| keesj | pahartik, I don't use the key's much I must say , but by default oprea does the scrolling is I press the down key a bit longer | 08:35 |
| keesj | What is author v.s. user mode? | 08:36 |
| pahartik | keesj: basically, it would switch between CSS suggested by author of document and one I created | 08:37 |
| keesj | ok. | 08:38 |
| pahartik | keesj: desktop Opera supports that... there is button in GUI as well as key assigned to that | 08:38 |
| pahartik | keesj: I know that "w3m" is capable of displaying images, but I have never tried that feature... over here, Opera is also set to not load images by default | 08:42 |
| jtokash | odd that maemo mapper isn't on this list: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 08:43 |
| keesj | I guess I will be a hell if some programs are still in the mistral repository and others not. | 08:45 |
| keesj | specially with dependencies | 08:45 |
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| qgil | morning all | 08:54 |
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| |tbb| | "No, the N800 does *not* support multi touch" what the heck is multitouch? | 09:09 |
| qgil | |tbb|: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitouch | 09:10 |
| qgil | you wpuld put two or more fingers in a screen and the system would follow both/all | 09:10 |
| qgil | apparently someone got confused by the fact that Nokia was shipping 2 stylus in the box ;) | 09:11 |
| roope | :D | 09:11 |
| roope | multitouch is a really nice idea. on the other idea, the iphone screen is so small that it's... well, it's more useful on a much larger touch screen. | 09:11 |
| qgil | this is what I thought myself when I saw that iPhone was announcing this feature | 09:12 |
| roope | I watched the keynote yesterday. It is nice for zooming / unzooming, but a bit limited still. | 09:12 |
| qgil | but well, they might have a good idea behind, like for instance being able to type a Ctrl+[apple] | 09:13 |
| roope | Apple has _heavily_ patented the multitouch thingies on the iphone. | 09:14 |
| roope | they also bought some ipr:s from other parties for it. | 09:14 |
| tigert | yeah, this was in spring, when the patents were in news | 09:14 |
| tigert | morning btw | 09:15 |
| tigert | man, its snow in here | 09:16 |
| tigert | looks like the winter started? | 09:16 |
| tigert | just in time for quim | 09:16 |
| tigert | ;) | 09:16 |
| qgil | great, tigert | 09:17 |
| tigert | its just a centimeter of snow though | 09:18 |
| qgil | still 3 days to come... | 09:18 |
| inz | plenty of time for it to melt away | 09:20 |
| tigert | yeah | 09:21 |
| * qgil is about to start Relocation Day 1: packing the whole house - wish me good luck :P | 09:23 | |
| tigert | ;) | 09:23 |
| * tigert listens to the BBC hitchhikeers guide on the ipod | 09:23 | |
| tigert | i think the finnish radio dramatization is at least as good though | 09:24 |
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| tigert | but these koss earplug headphones are pretty cool | 09:25 |
| inz | paacking the house reminds me of 2nd finnish BB | 09:25 |
| tigert | blocking sound nicely | 09:25 |
| inz | tigert, good for walking, you can't hear the cars, let alone bicycles | 09:26 |
| c0ffee | mhm mhm | 09:27 |
| tigert | yeah :) good and bad | 09:27 |
| c0ffee | so the developer program is 'rather soon' | 09:28 |
| inz | does anyone know the logic why the applications menu opens sometimes w/ descriptions and sometimes w/o | 09:29 |
| inz | never mind, just figured it out | 09:30 |
| tigert | yea, thumb | 09:33 |
| inz | thumb vs. nail =) | 09:35 |
| tigert | yeah | 09:39 |
| keesj | did anybody play with sb2? | 09:39 |
| tigert | sb2 | 09:42 |
| tigert | ? | 09:42 |
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| keesj | scratchbox | 09:43 |
| tigert | ah right | 09:49 |
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| c0ffee | nice, a gps with 7cm precission | 09:54 |
| c0ffee | price: $150.000 | 09:54 |
| inz | el cheapo | 09:54 |
| c0ffee | i think i need that | 09:54 |
| c0ffee | for geocaching | 09:54 |
| daniels | in finland, that's a hell of a lot. in australia, that's crap all. | 09:55 |
| c0ffee | why crap? | 09:55 |
| c0ffee | mind, it's not average 7cm, or in the best case 7cm, 7cm or better | 09:56 |
| daniels | one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, versus one hundred and fifty dollars | 09:56 |
| c0ffee | afaik this thing here is sold by us military only | 09:56 |
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| * gpd runs python on n800, sets up own scripts :) | 10:22 | |
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| gpd | maemochron doesn't work for me - 2k7 wiki lies | 10:31 |
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| X-Fade | gpd: It's a wiki :) | 10:32 |
| * gpd creates account | 10:33 | |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:33 |
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| |tbb| | anyone knows if it is possible to log just open networks with kismet? | 10:40 |
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| jonek | hi | 11:09 |
| jonek | keesj: nice idea - the bounty programm :) | 11:09 |
| Guardian | morning all | 11:11 |
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| Guardian | i want to port windows 95 to maemo | 11:11 |
| Guardian | can i apply ? :) | 11:11 |
| dwd | Guardian: I once made a blog post about that, so I should. | 11:15 |
| jonek | keesj: IIRC thoughtfix motivated someone through such a programm to do the kismet port | 11:19 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: yeah, nice idea. | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | Interesting comment from jakub on maemo-dev: "[...] the lucky ones shall get notified rather soon." | 11:36 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Of course, "rather soon" isn't what I'd call well-specified. | 11:36 |
| * koen wonders how much of it2007 was written in armv6 asm | 11:36 | |
| koen | must be a lot if nokia keeps insisting the hardware and software were designed together | 11:37 |
| jonek | koen: :-) | 11:37 |
| koen | I bet €10 it just means "we used lots of floating point and fear it it too slow for the 770" | 11:38 |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:39 |
| koen | good morning mister Dent | 11:39 |
| dwd | koen: To be fair, it might also mean "we were rushed and made no real attempt to put in the right conditionals", too. I'm not too bothered that OS2007 isn't available for the 770 now, I'm more concerned with the idea it never will be. | 11:40 |
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| koen | dwd: I spent the last years working openembedded, so when people say "doesn't run on..." my bullshit alarms goes of | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | dwd: true, it's more exact than what we knew already, unfortunately :-/ | 11:47 |
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| dwd | koen: It probably wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to make OS2007 work (to the levels we'd expect) on 770, but nevertheless it would be effort. I can entirely understand that with commercial deadlines, this wasn't met. | 12:07 |
| koen | koen: I can understand it as well | 12:08 |
| koen | but the "can't"s and "won't"s worry me | 12:08 |
| dwd | koen: But - and a big but - I don't understand why this cannot be rectified. | 12:08 |
| dwd | koen: Exactly. | 12:08 |
| koen | I'd like a statement like "we don't want to support it" or "the buildsystem people are incompetent arses" | 12:09 |
| part | haha | 12:10 |
| part | that's the right attitude | 12:11 |
| dwd | koen: Not sure I'd like the latter statement. :-) | 12:11 |
| Jaffa | GPS libraries on OS 2007 look good. Someone should quickly take the example and produce a photo-taking, geotagging app | 12:11 |
| koen | does the ogg-container support metadata as well? | 12:12 |
| * koen is thinking "geotagged movies" | 12:12 | |
| * koen nudges tigert | 12:12 | |
| koen | Jaffa: http://oregonstate.edu/~earlyj/gpsphotolinker/ :) | 12:13 |
| dwd | koen: But I wouldn't like the former, either - it implies that the N830's release would entirely deprecate the N800 - one of the key benefits of the platform would then be lost, I think. | 12:13 |
| part | dwd: what platform? | 12:13 |
| koen | dwd: I'd love to be able to *receive* video calls on the 770 | 12:14 |
| koen | anyway, the mailmain just dropped of book 3 and 4 of the Wheel of Time | 12:15 |
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| * koen -> book | 12:15 | |
| dwd | part: Maemo. I expected, when getting my 770, that it was a long-term investment, that even when "new" devices came out, the Maemo platform would continue to advance and I'd see the bulk of those advances. | 12:17 |
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| X-Fade | dwd: Indeed, I see no reason why new API's should not be able to run on 770. Like the alarm framework, gps etc.. | 12:24 |
| X-Fade | I can understand that multimedia related libs are a bit harder, but a lot of this stuff isn't.. | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | In fact, we had a fairly strong committment given to the alarm framework on the 770. | 12:25 |
| X-Fade | As some of it is already in sardine.. Like the alarm framework.. | 12:25 |
| X-Fade | (And I know, because that was the reason for Sardine to be unusable for a few weeks :) | 12:26 |
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| tigert | http://jledger.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=dtvhacking&action=display&thread=1167546608 | 12:27 |
| Jaffa | tigert: cool. What's "DTV" mean, the acronym they keep using? | 12:29 |
| Jaffa | It reminds me of http://www.sprow.co.uk/bbc/minib.htm | 12:29 |
| tigert | dunno | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | fairy nuff :) | 12:31 |
| tigert | direct-to-tv says wikipedia | 12:31 |
| tigert | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV | 12:31 |
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| koen | Jaffa: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007 looks pretty sweet indeed | 12:34 |
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| X-Fade | koen: I don't see a reason why this shouldn't work on 770, do you? (Apart from the api not being there on 2006) | 12:36 |
| koen | X-Fade: me neither | 12:37 |
| koen | X-Fade: libgpsmgr and libgpsbt are already installed on my ipaq :P | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | I wonder if we can make these api's installable from our own repository.. | 12:37 |
| koen | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=libgpsbt0 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=libgpsmgr0 | 12:38 |
| X-Fade | Or even garage.. | 12:38 |
| X-Fade | backports for 2006 ;) | 12:39 |
| tigert | veryt likely possible | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | I just want to know if Nokia isn't going to do the same thing. Or if there is a possibility to work together.. | 12:39 |
| florian_kc | good morning | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | It is unfortunate that Nokia people can't talk about that as they don't talk about future plans :) | 12:40 |
| Veggen | all they have said is that OS2007 isn't going to be released for the 770, they haven't said they're not going to backport features. | 12:40 |
| Veggen | right? | 12:40 |
| daniels | correct | 12:40 |
| dwd | Veggen: True, but Ari Jaaksi's blog posts suggested to me that the 770 was going to maint-mode. | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | yeah, but they didn't say anything about new features. Fixing bugs is something different. | 12:41 |
| Jaffa | I suppose we'll have to see how much goes into Maemo 2.2 and what's said alongside its release. | 12:45 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, I'm fairly optimistic about this. | 12:47 |
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| lardman | Anyone know what it means when one of the /dev/dsptask/* entries can't be opened, but others can (namely demo_fb is busy but demo_console works fine)? | 13:30 |
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| dballester | hi to all | 13:48 |
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| Jaffa | hi dballester | 13:51 |
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| Veggen | Jaffa/X-Fade: I just don't see the point in yelling at Nokia before we see what they do. We should voice our opinion, of course, but stop with the assumptions. | 14:03 |
| X-Fade | Veggen: Yep, that was the point I was trying to make. If it doesn't work out, we can always try something ourselves. | 14:04 |
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| Veggen | (and well. I never can resist the urge myself, so I've already ordered the N800 ;P) | 14:08 |
| Veggen | My 770 is still in for service because of the WSOD. | 14:09 |
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| dballester | to maemo developers: Could be possible in the future add this feature: The user can decide where is located the vertical scroll bars ( I'm righthanded and it's difficult to scroll up/down while my hand is over the screen ;) | 14:43 |
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| X-Fade | dballester: Do you mean lefthanded? :) | 14:47 |
| dballester | XD | 14:48 |
| dballester | may be, as you can suspect, english is not my first language :P | 14:49 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, well there has been talk about flipping the screen for lefthanded people.. | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | That has been done before.. | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/7-xrandr-on-nokia-770.html | 14:52 |
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| daniels | X-Fade: yeah, it's easy to do on the n800, but the ui just doesn't support it | 14:53 |
| X-Fade | You have to flip the arrow controls too.. | 14:54 |
| daniels | X-Fade: yeah, plus there's just a lot of hardcoded positions | 14:54 |
| X-Fade | daniels: Doesn't matter if you rotate 180 degrees? | 14:54 |
| X-Fade | X rotates that screen for you? | 14:55 |
| daniels | dunno | 14:55 |
| X-Fade | Check the pictures on that link. No problems.. | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | Even the status bar scales.. well almost ;) | 14:56 |
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| Jaffa | Fixing the hardware keys should be a relatively simple hack, shouldn't it? | 14:58 |
| Jaffa | I was thinking of having a go at that multitouch-using-stylus-and-select-button-as-modifier idea, but can't really as I'm left-handed | 14:58 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: The touchscreen is multitouch? | 14:59 |
| X-Fade | Pressing 2 fingers on the screen pops up the fullscreen keyboard for me.. | 14:59 |
| daniels | X-Fade: yes, but pressing _one_ finger pops up the fullscreen keyboard | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | daniels: Doesn't do that for me? | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | It pops up the regular keyboard.. | 15:01 |
| daniels | X-Fade: press harder? | 15:02 |
| daniels | works just fine here | 15:02 |
| daniels | same behaviour as on the 770 | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | 1 finger -> normal keyboard, 2 fingers -> fullscreen keyboard. | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | That is how my 770 behaves.. | 15:03 |
| mdamt | X-Fade: Got a hard nail touches the screen? | 15:03 |
| daniels | i can assure you that's absolutely not multitouch. | 15:03 |
| daniels | press with the flat of your thumb or something, it'll pop up fkb then | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | daniels: You can fake that by recording the coord of the first press and the second press. | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: the suggestion was to simulate the first touch, e.g. tap-hold-press select-move | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah that would be quite hard lefthanded.. | 15:06 |
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| pahartik | what does "32wd_to" at "/proc/bootreason" stand for? | 15:27 |
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| X-Fade | pahartik: That is the watchdog.. | 15:35 |
| pahartik | X-Fade: something went wrong with networking and GUI stopped responding... after few seconds, reboot | 15:40 |
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| framerate | pahartik: did you install mweather by chance? | 15:43 |
| framerate | pahartik: mweather ended up being the culprit causing my N800 to reboot->whitescreen repeatedly | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | pahartik: The watchdog resets the device when the system isn't able to give a sign of life in time.. | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | In cases of 100% cpu for example... | 15:45 |
| pahartik | framerate: before sudden hang/reboot: I removed Canola, rebooted, installed Avahi back, used Maemo for ~10 hours | 15:46 |
| pahartik | framerate: uptime before described changes was ~10 days | 15:48 |
| framerate | pahartik: not sure then :( (I'm rather new here) | 15:48 |
| * sp3000 debugs his coffee | 15:49 | |
| sp3000 | darn fruit flies >:| | 15:50 |
| pahartik | framerate: could be related to Bluetooth PAN, as that caused unusual problems before (just rebooting) | 15:50 |
| * pahartik proceeds on trying to write simple Maemo application | 15:53 | |
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| Jaffa | Interesting article from Ari Jaaksi about 770 plans now. Seems Nokia are going to work with the community to backport as much as possible. | 15:54 |
| |tbb| | what does this means | 15:58 |
| |tbb| | http://www.akaabel.ee/?SID=21e3317f57aa367f34837a45e4a3dded&n=kontakt | 15:58 |
| |tbb| | sorry wrong past | 15:58 |
| |tbb| | +e | 15:58 |
| |tbb| | Ari does make the point, too, that the 770 currently beats the pants off the n800 for in car navigation. | 15:58 |
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| mdamt | I tried running N800 software on 770. Slow like hell :-P | 15:59 |
| mdamt | http://aksi.mdamt.net/node/175 | 15:59 |
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| framerate | |tbb|: that's not from the new interview, is it? | 16:00 |
| Jaffa | mdamt: Interesting. | 16:01 |
| |tbb| | http://blog.tokash.org/ | 16:01 |
| framerate | bad news is I bought my N800 mainly for in car navigation :/ | 16:03 |
| |tbb| | i allready got a navkit | 16:03 |
| |tbb| | for n770 i was thinking it runs on the n800 | 16:03 |
| framerate | I have a bluetooth GPS, I just need to find N800 compatible software | 16:03 |
| framerate | Nokia hasn't made that announcement yet, sadly | 16:04 |
| c0ffee | the bt plugin from garage should support gps | 16:06 |
| c0ffee | did you try that and mapper? | 16:06 |
| framerate | gnuite hasn't finished mapper for N800 yet | 16:07 |
| framerate | bluetooth libraries have changed and he doesn't have an N800 | 16:08 |
| |tbb| | bad news | 16:08 |
| framerate | uh oh | 16:08 |
| c0ffee | well | 16:08 |
| c0ffee | a bit patience please :) | 16:08 |
| framerate | Oh, I'm good c0ffee :) Regardless I'm gonna donate to him soon, either to support his N800 purchase or support a release (whichever happens first) | 16:09 |
| nomis | framerate: rest assured that there will be gps applications. I have an interest in that myself and I will have access to N800s in the future. | 16:09 |
| nomis | framerate: and I bet that there are more people like me :) | 16:09 |
| Veggen | ...me, for example :) | 16:10 |
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| framerate | nomis: I'm actually considering it myself, although I'm new to maemo, gps AND bluetooth development :( | 16:10 |
| framerate | but all three are things on my list of things to learn :) | 16:10 |
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| Veggen | (although I haven't done much maemo development so far. I did test out and got the scratchbox development env running and managed to get some simple test guis made. | 16:11 |
| nomis | framerate: yeah, it is interesting. | 16:11 |
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| koen | the maemo3 gps(bt) stuff looks cute | 16:13 |
| * koen hopes maemo-mapper will start using that | 16:13 | |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 16:15 |
| framerate | how hard is BT coding in general, just say a command line utility that interacts with a BT device? | 16:15 |
| framerate | I would think it could go either way, either really intuitive or real complex | 16:15 |
| qgil | Yet another [OT] question while I'm in the middle of a home relocation: does it make sense to move a ventilator to Finland? | 16:16 |
| nomis | framerate: writing a tool to get the gps data from a bluetooth device is not that hard. It is a bit tricky until you get used to all the interacting concepts. | 16:16 |
| nomis | framerate: I don't know if Maemo has some convenience layers for this. | 16:16 |
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| Jaffa | nomis/framerate: fortunately it's made easier in Maemo 3 | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007 | 16:17 |
| framerate | nomis: I'm unsure if maemo would be a suitable "first time" BT coding environment, or if I should start on OSX or gentoo or something to get used t o it | 16:17 |
| jmspeex | Anyone knows how I can get an N800 as part of the developers program (as author of Speex)? | 16:18 |
| koen | jmspeex: see topic | 16:18 |
| inz | frame, I'd guess maemo is pretty close to gentoo wrt bt | 16:18 |
| nomis | framerate: I'd avoid OSX. They probably have an awful lot of convenience layers in there. | 16:18 |
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| jmspeex | koen: sorry | 16:19 |
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| kender | hi | 16:20 |
| mdamt | qgil: What's home ventilator? | 16:20 |
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| * Jaffa wonders if the discount codes will be sent out before the N800's a week old | 16:20 | |
| koen | jmspeex: it *is* a bit confusing | 16:21 |
| inz | The topic is so overly long and verbose it makes my head hurt | 16:21 |
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| inz | Imo channel topic should be about 70 chars to be usable | 16:22 |
| mdamt | I think it's a good idea to advertise your self, rather than letting Nokia people digging the mailing lists/blogs to find good candidates... | 16:22 |
| qgil | mdamt: something like http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=ventilator&btnG=Search+Images | 16:22 |
| part | mdamt: although you might just present yourself as someone who can't read / understand instructions | 16:23 |
| inz | mdamt, For all we know, they might have already done the decisions | 16:23 |
| mdamt | qgil: It's useful in the summer. | 16:23 |
| koen | http://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?p=136 | 16:23 |
| nomis | mdamt: does it blow away the mosquitos? ;) | 16:23 |
| part | qgil: you can buy such devices from Finland as well | 16:23 |
| kender | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/were-getting-some-feedback-and-weve-got.html | 16:24 |
| qgil | well, but since nokia is paying the whole movea dn we are leaving the house empty... alright, we'll take it :) | 16:25 |
| framerate | I'm looking for the modem scripts the nokia n800 uses for BT DUN via the terminal. Any idea where these would be stored? | 16:27 |
| mgedmin | framerate: if this were a debian system, I'd say /etc/ppp and /etc/chatscripts | 16:28 |
| framerate | k thank you, will check now | 16:28 |
| mgedmin | framerate: nope, not there | 16:29 |
| mdamt | part: Probably just putting "Will develop XXX for N800" in your signature when posting to mailing list :) | 16:29 |
| mgedmin | framerate: somewhere in gconf would be my next guess (/var/lib/gconf/...), but I'm just guessing | 16:30 |
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| framerate | oh dang, I forgot I don't have nano or pico on the N800 hah | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | framerate: there should be vi | 16:33 |
| osfameron | that's goin to be fun to use without external keyboard :-) | 16:34 |
| part | framerate: pico can't be distributed | 16:34 |
| framerate | yep found vi... too bad I don't know vi (just use nano and emacs >.>) | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | Yay, enthusiasm for mud :-) | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | (on maemo-dev) | 16:34 |
| framerate | I'm determined to figure out why you can't connect via cingular WAP server in the US on here :( | 16:35 |
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| pahartik | framerate: "WAP" as in special XML service that has been available on mobile telephone devices since about year 2000? | 16:41 |
| jurop88 | hi all | 16:43 |
| jurop88 | has anyone recently had some problems with maemo rss feedreader? | 16:44 |
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| jurop88 | somebody blocked his own N800 on ITT reading - probably - last planet rss | 16:44 |
| jurop88 | I had some problem, too | 16:44 |
| jurop88 | somebody else suggested to file a bug | 16:45 |
| matt_c | framerate: I've been able to connect via cingular WAP (IIRC) on my 770, but I have an unlimited data plan | 16:45 |
| framerate | well, to be clearer I want to dialup through my blackberry pearl from my N800 WITHOUT the 80 dollars plan | 16:45 |
| jurop88 | anyone knows where osso_rss_feed_reader stores its data? | 16:45 |
| framerate | I can connect on my laptop via a modem script I found online, and BT DUN on macbook has a field for the script | 16:45 |
| matt_c | framerate: I've just got a $20 data plan, not the expensive one | 16:45 |
| framerate | hmm.. I have that as well | 16:46 |
| framerate | wap.cingular, WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM CINGULAR1 (settings) | 16:46 |
| matt_c | that sounds right, I'm trying to find the page that worked for me | 16:46 |
| matt_c | I haven't tried in awhile but that worked the last time I tried it | 16:47 |
| framerate | yeah I'm having really bad luck with it | 16:48 |
| framerate | it might be different since it's a blackberry, perhaps? maybe a different plan. But I'm able to get on from the macbook pro | 16:48 |
| framerate | n800 gives "remote server error. Try again?" message | 16:49 |
| matt_c | hmm, I wonder if the dial-up number is different on the blackberry | 16:49 |
| framerate | well I can checn my TCP settings on the blackberry, and it's still wap.cingular etc | 16:50 |
| matt_c | yeah it looks like the number is still *99# | 16:50 |
| framerate | I also find *99***1# as another number mentioned online | 16:51 |
| mgedmin | I think those are equivalent | 16:53 |
| framerate | both give remote server error :( | 16:53 |
| mgedmin | that's the connection ID after those extra *s | 16:53 |
| framerate | ahh | 16:53 |
| mgedmin | I think it defaults to 1 | 16:53 |
| mgedmin | and there are other AT commands to actually tell the phone what that connection is | 16:53 |
| mgedmin | (APN, etc.) | 16:53 |
| matt_c | framerate: I just checked my 770 and those are the settings I'm using | 16:54 |
| matt_c | (I'm assuming the CINGULAR1 but that sounds right) | 16:54 |
| framerate | are you adding any additional AT commands or anything? | 16:54 |
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| matt_c | framerate: I didn't go in to the advanced menu IIRC | 16:57 |
| matt_c | (this is with a nokia S60 tho) | 16:57 |
| framerate | hmm. I just noticed the number my laptop uses is actually "wap.cingular", NOT the *99.. number | 17:01 |
| framerate | but the N800 doesn't allow alphanumeric in that field :/ | 17:01 |
| jpetersen | florian_kc: i've got a patch for libmimedir which fixes parsing of the google calendar files. I didn't found a suitable bugzilla for upstream libmimedir to add the patch. But maybe you like to apply the patch to your maemo-gpe mimedir package. It's available at http://jpetersen.org/maemo/libmimedir-0.4.0-duration-wkst.patch | 17:03 |
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| mdamt | framerate: I don't know whether this can help: http://www.tabletcorner.com/nokia770/guides/razr.html | 17:04 |
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| pahartik | framerate: "Access point name: wap.cingular" "Dial-up number: *99***1#"...? | 17:05 |
| framerate | hmm I restarted the phone again and it connected, but it appears I'm not online, or at least it drops me when I opened browser | 17:05 |
| framerate | well yeah, but my laptop script apparently uses wap.cingular as the actual NUMBER too, which is odd | 17:06 |
| framerate | which is from here: http://www.fibble.org/archives/000508.html | 17:06 |
| pahartik | framerate: those on "Connection setup: Packet data" dialog of Maemo 2.1 (yes, I only have Nokia 770) | 17:06 |
| framerate | yeah, packet data | 17:07 |
| florian_kc | jpetersen: weeee cool - you rock! | 17:07 |
| florian_kc | jpetersen: you can try to send it to the maintainer, but sebastian is a little bit unresponsive sometimes. | 17:08 |
| florian_kc | jpetersen: i'll add this to the maemo and OE builds of course. | 17:08 |
| pahartik | framerate: I do not know what "configuration dialogs" on my laptop would say, I have only edited "/etc/ppp/peers/<provider>" and "/etc/chatscripts/<provider>"... | 17:08 |
| framerate | I'm gonna keep playing with it. Either this or a VPN success would make my day today :) (otherwise can't use my new toy at work!) | 17:09 |
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| HGFB | Grr. My N800 is waiting at home and I'm at work. What a disgusting state of affairs | 17:15 |
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| mat|work | it could be worse. at least you've got a N800 and not just a N770 like some of us :-) | 17:18 |
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| klausade | is it possible to charge the battery via the usb cable? | 17:19 |
| qgil | hum, there is indeed a case - http://www.europe.nokia.com/accessorieslink?s=N800Case | 17:19 |
| shackan | mat|work, it could be yet worse, like not having either of them :P | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | klausade: yes, using a Nokia USB charger. I've got a Nokia phone USB charger with CA-44 adapter for the smaller tip. | 17:20 |
| Jaffa | qgil: looks already | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | s/ready/right/ | 17:21 |
| HGFB | I have a 3rd party usb mains charger that I use to charge my mp3 player. I wonder if that will work ok | 17:21 |
| HGFB | I think he means does it charge via the usb port | 17:21 |
| qgil | I haven't crossed comments/authors in the blogosphere but sometimes it seems that some people criticising the N800's lack of case then get so excited about the (caseless?) iPhone | 17:21 |
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| HGFB | The 770 didn't did it | 17:21 |
| klausade | Jaffa: but what about the usb-cable that comes with the 770? | 17:22 |
| zyxul | I have an application that runs fine under the user account but when I load it with root the gui looks all messed up it defaults to the default GTK theme. Is there a way to make it look as if it was running as user? | 17:22 |
| dwd | zyxul: On the device? | 17:23 |
| zyxul | yeah | 17:23 |
| zyxul | when I do sudo gainroot | 17:23 |
| qgil | I liked the 770 case (thanks to it I named the toy "Taco" since it made me move the hands as you do In Mexico to prepare one) but I'm not missing it in the N800, partly because the screen&stylus brings a quite more solid feeling | 17:23 |
| zyxul | and execute it, it loads the default GTK theme not the hildon stuff | 17:23 |
| zyxul | if I run it as user it loads it properly | 17:23 |
| dwd | zyxul: I'm not sure that you can, very easily. The theming stuff is to do with some environment variables, I think. In scratchbox, you can set them up with run-standalone.sh | 17:24 |
| mdamt | zyxul: run-standalone.sh? | 17:24 |
| dwd | zyxul: I'm really not sure if that exists on the device, though, or if it does everything that's needed. | 17:24 |
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| zyxul | nop run-standalone didnt do it | 17:25 |
| Jaffa | klausade: I don't know. If the question is "can it be charged from a USB port?" the answer is "yes". If the question is, "can the 770/N800's USB port charge the device?", I don't know - I suspect not. | 17:26 |
| zyxul | oh now it worked | 17:26 |
| zyxul | thanks guys | 17:26 |
| klausade | Jaffa: thanks for the answer. | 17:26 |
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| dballester | anybody knows if http://repository.maemo.org is down? | 17:38 |
| Tak | responds for me | 17:38 |
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| dballester | i can't download from it, if i try to point my laptop web browser i only get a blank page with repository.maemo.org words | 17:40 |
| Disconnect | dballester: it never had a full page | 17:41 |
| mdamt | dballester: Try http://repository.maemo.org/pool | 17:41 |
| dballester | the application installer can't fetch from http://repository.maemo.org | 17:41 |
| Tak | I just downloaded the fceu package | 17:42 |
| dballester | Disconnect, at least i was hopping to get the directories | 17:42 |
| Disconnect | (me too, for the record, but nope) | 17:42 |
| Tak | try repository.maemo.org/extras | 17:42 |
| dballester | i will try | 17:43 |
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| Tak | (in browser) | 17:43 |
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| dballester | FYI the message is : Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/scirocco/non-free/binary-armel/Packages.gz | 17:44 |
| dballester | ( for free section the same ) | 17:44 |
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| Tak | that's because there's no dists/scirocco | 17:44 |
| Tak | nor is there extras/dists/scirocco | 17:44 |
| dballester | ? | 17:44 |
| Tak | nvm | 17:44 |
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| Tak | there *is* dists/scirocco, but not extras/dists/scirocco | 17:45 |
| Tak | my mistake | 17:45 |
| dballester | ah ;) | 17:45 |
| Tak | I'm able to download that file manually | 17:45 |
| dballester | strange :? you can see the message that i get in the app manager log :( | 17:47 |
| dballester | i'm trying to install carola, but seems to be difficult ;) | 17:47 |
| dballester | and yes, with my laptop webbrowser i can see the files :/ | 17:48 |
| Tak | can you browse there with the device's browser? | 17:48 |
| dballester | i'm trying it now | 17:49 |
| dballester | aqugh... | 17:49 |
| dballester | Operation temporary deactivated due to low memory ( free translation from spanish message ) | 17:50 |
| dballester | time to close apps XD | 17:50 |
| dballester | a lot of new installs, may be a reboot ( new applets downloaded... ) | 17:51 |
| dballester | i had opened the audio player, app-manager, mahjon and the maemo wiki web page... | 17:52 |
| dballester | too much? :? | 17:52 |
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| keesj | I know many users here use screen in combo with irssi I found this gentoo article about screen quite enlightening http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Using_screen | 18:12 |
| *** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | Plans for a 2007ish engineering release for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh" | 18:13 | |
| Tak | engineering release? | 18:13 |
| qgil | Tak: click url :) | 18:14 |
| Tak | hm | 18:15 |
| * lle2 waits for the obvious "but nokia doesn't provide proper telephone support for this so it's crap and they're evil" comments. | 18:15 | |
| *** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish engineering release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh" | 18:15 | |
| Tak | I'm not sure I could put that on my 770 | 18:15 |
| lle2 | how come? | 18:16 |
| qgil | Tak: if this release is released and you have a USB cable... why not? | 18:18 |
| lle2 | it's not kosher? | 18:18 |
| c0ffee | re | 18:19 |
| qgil | If you are Nokia you need to be careful when you make a full release, I believe | 18:19 |
| qgil | Google would call it "beta" release ;) | 18:19 |
| tko | I can imagine making the developer release is going to be interesting even with all and any kinds of disclaimers we could figure out | 18:20 |
| lle2 | making a full release would mean a 4-6 month cycle | 18:20 |
| part | just dump herring on a 770 | 18:20 |
| Tak | because both myself and my fiancee need the 770 to be stable | 18:21 |
| hub | it is so beta that the canadian don't want to sell it | 18:22 |
| hub | :-)( | 18:22 |
| lle2 | yeah, there's that. but then I don't really see why you would want to upgrade at all | 18:22 |
| lle2 | if it works, that is | 18:22 |
| Tak | well, I would want to upgrade for a stable release targeted at the 770 | 18:23 |
| qgil | Tak: un/stability reports are in the works and they will be shared, according to Ari's post. You will be able to decide then in the stability offered by the new release suits your needs or no | 18:24 |
| qgil | Tak: more or less as it happens in the GPL world full of testing / beta / unstable releases | 18:25 |
| hub | looks like it is impossible to buy a N800 or a 770 is this country | 18:26 |
| hub | .... | 18:26 |
| hub | :-/ | 18:26 |
| Tak | even gpl software has stable releases | 18:27 |
| osfameron | the Florence "Nokia point" didn't know about the N800 at all :-( | 18:28 |
| osfameron | but it's in the online shop for Italy | 18:28 |
| qgil | hub: sht happens - remember when I wanted that laptop available first and only in Canada (and somewhere in Asia)? :) | 18:28 |
| hub | qgil: nothing is available first here | 18:28 |
| Tak | I guess what I'm saying is that I'm disappointed that it looks like a halfass bora backport effort instead of an effort to stabilize (whatever the latest developer release's fishname is) | 18:29 |
| hub | globalization is clearly NOT for consumers | 18:29 |
| qgil | Tak: I'm just starting to learn what does "stable" mean for Nokia, but basically many (technically) stable GPL software cannot be presented by Nokia as an official consumer release, just like that - because of the implications it has in terms of QA, customer support and such | 18:29 |
| sbaturzio | osfameron: a friend just bought it online, called the hot line for a question and they answered: "n800 what?" ;-) | 18:30 |
| Tak | qgil: what about mistral and scirocco, then? | 18:30 |
| hub | sbaturzio: I used to work for a company where they put stuff in production, and the engineering new because someone called the tech support and informed the tech support that ended up telling the engineering | 18:31 |
| qgil | Tak: mmm what? :) | 18:31 |
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| osfameron | sbaturzio: heh | 18:34 |
| Tak | don't get me wrong, if the "engineering release" turns out to be as well-put-together as, say, the scirocco release, then I'll be fine with it | 18:36 |
| part | Jaaksi is such a pushover | 18:36 |
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| Tak | just the description gives me the impression that the plan is to backport some of the bora software, hack it together with some of the herring (or whatever) stuff, and shove it out | 18:37 |
| lle2 | part: yeah, I would have just told everyone to shut up and get on with it. | 18:37 |
| Tak | which seems to me like a loss compared to just moving forward with the herring (or whatever) software | 18:37 |
| lle2 | Tak: I understand this so that the community will be involved in the development and testing phase, so it's not going to be just a simply shoved out there | 18:39 |
| dwd | It sounds to me like Nokia want to involve (and use) the community more. All sounds good, actually. | 18:40 |
| Tak | well, more community involvement at those stages is a good thing | 18:40 |
| lle2 | very much unlike the regular releases which don't get any outside exposure before it's too late | 18:40 |
| Tak | I guess it's just the phrasing that worries me | 18:40 |
| Tak | "N800 software on 770 hardware" | 18:41 |
| Tak | etc | 18:41 |
| hub | will the N830 have a phone ;-) | 18:41 |
| dballester | hub, +1 | 18:42 |
| tko | hub, define 'phone' .. don't we already have soft phone ?-) | 18:42 |
| dballester | or n8XX will not be a good competitor for the iphone | 18:42 |
| dballester | tko GSM | 18:42 |
| dballester | cellular, i think | 18:42 |
| hub | tko: something that works everywhere | 18:42 |
| hub | tko: which is not the case with wifi | 18:42 |
| daniels | hub: bt + gprs | 18:43 |
| lle2 | Tak: how would you like it phrased? "Carefully hand-picked and inspected source code files matured in oak barrels for many years before being bottled and compiled for the user. To be consumed slightly chilled, after 15-20 minutes of installation."? | 18:43 |
| hub | daniels: 2 devices | 18:43 |
| hub | daniels: make one too much | 18:43 |
| Tak | lle2: how about "bringing 770 software forward to be feature-comparable with n800 software" ? | 18:43 |
| hub | not counting the palm for the addressbook/calendar :-/ | 18:43 |
| daniels | lle2: you should be in marketing | 18:43 |
| Tak | please don't think I'm flaming, btw | 18:43 |
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| lle2 | Tak: I'm not :) | 18:44 |
| Tak | btw, I keep backups of all my source code in an oak barrel | 18:44 |
| hub | Tak: I keep same in a safe | 18:44 |
| Tak | I keep hoping I'll take it out one day and it will have turned into something better | 18:44 |
| Tak | or maybe bourbon | 18:44 |
| hub | which turn into a foundry in case of fire | 18:45 |
| osfameron | ideally a scotch surely, rather than bourbon | 18:46 |
| Tak | pick your favorite | 18:46 |
| osfameron | though you have to toast the source code very carefully and malt it only in the finest quality port barrels | 18:46 |
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| Tak | and don't call me shirley! :-P | 18:46 |
| gpd | Boxwave Cleartouch Screen Protector for 770 <- should be fine with N800 right? | 18:47 |
| dwd | What's the current recommendation for a upnp media server for Linux? | 18:48 |
| gpd | brighthand.com says that is the best type, amazon reivewers say 'useless' :? | 18:49 |
| arj | I have seen a fullscreen keyboard for the n770 and was wondering where I can get it? | 18:49 |
| gpd | arj: press the screen when in keyboard mode | 18:49 |
| gpd | with your fingers... | 18:49 |
| gpd | the thumbpad should appear | 18:49 |
| gpd | dwd: gmediaserver workd for me | 18:50 |
| arj | gpd: doesn't seem to work | 18:50 |
| gpd | touch the area where the text is going | 18:50 |
| gpd | finger - not stylus | 18:50 |
| arj | aha | 18:51 |
| arj | I need to not have the styles keyboard open | 18:51 |
| arj | nice | 18:51 |
| arj | thanks | 18:51 |
| Tak | it should come up even if the stylus kb is visible | 18:52 |
| Tak | at least IME | 18:52 |
| gpd | so - adhesive screen protector - or non-adhesive? (i have no experience) | 18:53 |
| Tak | I would tend to be leery of anything adhesive | 18:53 |
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| gpd | Tak: do you have one on your device? which company | 18:55 |
| Tak | no, I'm not using one | 18:56 |
| Tak | the metal cover thing for the 770 is adequate for me | 18:56 |
| gpd | no scratches from the stylus then? | 18:56 |
| Tak | not so far | 18:56 |
| gpd | my palm graffiti area is totally screwed | 18:56 |
| Tak | I've only had it for ~6mo though, so I'm not sure if that's definitive | 18:57 |
| dwd | My 770 lacks any scratches even though it's seen extensive Tux Paint action from both my children (2 & 5). | 18:59 |
| tzz | dwd: Canola devs recommend fuppes, but I've only used gmediaserver personally and it's OK. On Windows, TVersity is nice, it supports Canola right away and the video is watchable if you have a processor fast enough to handle realtime transcoding. | 19:00 |
| Tak | more of an issue for me is that I have to keep cleaning the screen from thumbboard + dragon warrior ... | 19:00 |
| tzz | dwd: I assume you ask about upnp because of Canola :) | 19:00 |
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| dwd | tzz: Actually, I was thinking about using the Nokia Media Streamer app, since Canola looks a little heavy. | 19:01 |
| Jaffa | fuppes is a pain to get running on Ubuntu: its build dependencies are rather high | 19:01 |
| Tak | oh, and canola | 19:01 |
| osfameron | tux paint looks fun | 19:01 |
| gpd | dwd - i tried gmediaserver with nokia media server the other night - it was working with 200G of media | 19:01 |
| tzz | I know the media streamer works fine with gmediaserver for music, don't know about fuppes or video with either of those two servers | 19:02 |
| tzz | the problem I had was that long directories would get cut off at 30 entries or so | 19:02 |
| jonek | hi, if anybody wants to try phoneME advanced MR1 on the 770: get it here -> http://i30www.ira.uka.de/p2p/ambicomp/phoneME_Nokia770/ | 19:02 |
| gpd | i think i'll get these shop.brando screen protectors -- just to be safe - but thanks for the reassurance on the screen :) | 19:03 |
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| tzz | jonek: what is phoneME? | 19:04 |
| dwd | gpd: So it does. | 19:04 |
| Jaffa | jonek: what rendering peer? | 19:05 |
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| Tak | phoneme is the gpl'd j2me | 19:05 |
| tzz | so it's a JVM that supports that profile? | 19:06 |
| Jaffa | Anyone got a developer discount code yet, btw? (just checking ;-)) | 19:06 |
| Tak | not I, said the chicken | 19:06 |
| Jaffa | tzz: yes, it should allow you to run mobile phone Java applications. | 19:06 |
| tzz | cool, I have a bunch of J2ME games accumulated over the years | 19:07 |
| c0ffee | why does bora not include gazpacho? | 19:07 |
| qgil | Jaffa: I believe the topic of #maemo will be adequatedly edited few minutes after the first invitation is sent :) | 19:08 |
| Jaffa | jonek: ah, none yet :) | 19:08 |
| Tak | in the scratchbox kit, or on the device? | 19:08 |
| Jaffa | qgil: ...and when'll that be? (see if you fall into my cunning trap ;-)) | 19:08 |
| Tak | (qgil rolls 22 against trap difficulty 9) | 19:09 |
| tko | Jaffa, few minutes before the topic is edited | 19:09 |
| tko | ? | 19:09 |
| Jaffa | Annoyingly, a colleague's order for his N800 has been cancelled due to his credit card failing authorisation. Which it has never done before but sounds *exactly* like the problems Nokia were having fulfilling 770 orders a year ago: see: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688 and http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627 for example | 19:09 |
| Jaffa | tko: assuming Nokia's internet access isn't intercepted *at that exact moment* by an alien invasion. These things concern me... | 19:10 |
| jonek | Tak: on the device | 19:10 |
| qgil | Jaffa: I don't know | 19:10 |
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| tzz | my order was put on hold for credit card auth as well, took 2 days to get it straightened out on Nokia's side | 19:11 |
| tzz | I still did it through Nokia, no sales tax and free shipping is a good deal | 19:12 |
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| osfameron | I wonder who else might stock them in Italy | 19:15 |
| * osfameron remembers that he has family in Finland | 19:15 | |
| osfameron | duh | 19:15 |
| keesj | do people here have idea's about the bounty thing. whould it help if it was not money but "nokia points"(As people still would need to invest money in a device) | 19:16 |
| Tak | keesj: actually I'm composing an email about that as we speak | 19:17 |
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| keesj | Would there be people willing to to "less fun stuff" for points (like a good tutorial/documentation) | 19:17 |
| daniels | osfameron: mightn't help; when i was at the local computer shop a day or two ago (biggest in hki and right next to the nokia research centre -- draw your own conclusions), they still had the 770 on display, and no n800s in sight | 19:18 |
| osfameron | daniels: oh, fair enough | 19:18 |
| osfameron | and the nokia shop price is the same | 19:18 |
| keesj | daniels, perhaps it's like the iphone , it's release but not there yet :) | 19:18 |
| lle2 | keesj: frequent flyer miles on the virgin galactic? | 19:19 |
| tko | keesj, bounties? (haven't had the time to catch up with mailing lists in the last few days) | 19:20 |
| keesj | lle2, sorry , but I don't know what that is | 19:20 |
| gpd | if you have highlighted text - how do you bring up the keyboard without losing the highlight? | 19:21 |
| Tak | hit the middle button on the d-pad? | 19:21 |
| lle2 | keesj: the Virgin company doing sub-orbital flights | 19:21 |
| gpd | Tak: that brings up the thumbboard | 19:22 |
| keesj | lle2, Ok, not I understand | 19:22 |
| tko | gpd, that's configurable (Control Panel etc.) | 19:22 |
| gpd | ok - very good | 19:22 |
| tko | gpd, if you just want to copy, there's also Edit menu in application menus | 19:22 |
| c0ffee | doesn't some airline own a part of a spaceship company | 19:23 |
| lle2 | keesj: yes, Virgin | 19:23 |
| gpd | ... but it also loses the highlighting :( | 19:23 |
| lle2 | eh, c0ffee | 19:23 |
| c0ffee | and you can convert 1million frequent flyer's miles into a free space flight | 19:23 |
| * qgil goes to the hotel since his whole house is in boxes right now | 19:23 | |
| qgil | bye! | 19:23 |
| keesj | tko, http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/006968.html | 19:23 |
| c0ffee | afaik one person did that already | 19:23 |
| c0ffee | however, he's still waiting for the flight to becme available | 19:23 |
| lle2 | but seriously, I think that might not be a bad thing, the price for the ticket is not too much | 19:23 |
| gpd | i just want to clear all the highlighted text and start again (- eg. ctrl u) | 19:23 |
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| lle2 | only around $100k or so? | 19:24 |
| c0ffee | yeah, there are stranger ways to spend your money | 19:24 |
| Tak | can't you just bring up the kb and then highlight the text? | 19:24 |
| c0ffee | like buying a n800 for 400 e :) | 19:24 |
| lle2 | heh, yeah | 19:24 |
| lle2 | I think I'll suggest that as some sort of prize for the Most Valuable Community Member or some such, based on some measurable criteria | 19:26 |
| Tak | eww | 19:26 |
| Tak | may as well have a Community Member of the Month program | 19:26 |
| lle2 | I think sb2 usage is going to rank really high on the list | 19:26 |
| shackan | sb2? | 19:27 |
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| lle2 | I hope the space flights are safe, would hate to lose the entire community in couple of years by shooting them to space | 19:27 |
| lle2 | shackan: scratchbox2 | 19:27 |
| c0ffee | lle2, do you know why some howtos for bora are in the svn but not online on maemo.org? | 19:28 |
| lle2 | c0ffee: no idea | 19:28 |
| keesj | and a hall of shame for the worst community members | 19:29 |
| c0ffee | just grep for device application mails :) | 19:29 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: interesting suggestion just now about it being "blind" | 19:30 |
| keesj | the problem with developer member of the month is that it is not self regulating | 19:30 |
| Tak | heh, reminds me of today's xkcd | 19:30 |
| Tak | Jaffa: thanks :-) | 19:30 |
| keesj | Jaffa, yes I like it | 19:30 |
| lle2 | giving money is a bit problematic imho | 19:31 |
| lle2 | stinks too much as working for nokia for almost nothing | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | Tak: ah, I was trying to work out if there was a thing there | 19:32 |
| * Jaffa homes | 19:32 | |
| Tak | eh? | 19:32 |
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| Rotund | is there a way to NOT have the screen dim on a 770? | 19:33 |
| Tak | I was under the impression that you could configure that in the control panel | 19:33 |
| Rotund | I can only seem to set it as high as 2 minutes | 19:33 |
| Tak | ah | 19:34 |
| Rotund | I'd like it to stay on indefinitely | 19:34 |
| Tak | I've been thinking about making an applet for controlling the screen dimming a little more dynamically | 19:34 |
| daniels | Rotund: unfortunately, no. gaping design flaw. | 19:34 |
| Rotund | I want to use maemo mapper, but I don't want it to go to sleep | 19:34 |
| Tak | now that my fiancee's back in school, I'll have more hack time :-) | 19:34 |
| tko | Rotund, there's gconf key for the timeout, somewhere under /system/osso/dsme/display or so, you can set it to 0 to disable it | 19:35 |
| Rotund | tak, haha | 19:35 |
| Tak | I thought maemo mapper stopped it from being dimmed? | 19:35 |
| Rotund | it didn't for me. There's an option for it, but it didn't seem to work | 19:35 |
| tko | oh, there's also the function one can call periodically | 19:35 |
| Rotund | tko, is there a gconf-editor like program for the 770? | 19:36 |
| tko | Rotund, I don't think anyone has compiled gconf-editor. there's gconftool though | 19:36 |
| daniels | tko: hm, last i tried that it just set the dimming timeout really high | 19:36 |
| daniels | tko: (left videos running overnight to test stability ... not only did the screen blank, but the media server crashed. sigh.) | 19:36 |
| Rotund | maybe the "only in fullscreen" in maemo mapper is broken | 19:37 |
| arj | does anyone know if the software for the nokia GPS thing runs on linux? | 19:38 |
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| dballester | whoooo http://www.nokia.com/A4136028# | 19:39 |
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| Rotund | dballester, what is the woo hoo about? | 19:40 |
| shackan | tak, I agree with your email, it would be nice to have a centralized todo list of things which people want for their tablet software | 19:40 |
| dballester | the future nokia phones | 19:40 |
| Rotund | ahh. | 19:41 |
| keesj | is it gmail or the mailing list that does't reply to the right address? | 19:44 |
| Tak | I always do "reply all" with gmail | 19:45 |
| Tak | (on lists) | 19:45 |
| gpd | shackan: we should setup a 'wishlist' on the maemowiki -- i mentioned that the other day | 19:45 |
| shackan | yup | 19:46 |
| tko | I think there's at least a couple of 'improvement ideas' pages in the wiki currently | 19:46 |
| Guardian | would it be possible to create a translucent windows (50% alpha transparency) on top of the other windows (even the task navigator) | 19:46 |
| tko | possible yes, fast no :) | 19:47 |
| gpd | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ImprovementIdeas | 19:47 |
| Guardian | would require taking screen shots ? | 19:47 |
| tko | or use composite manager | 19:47 |
| Guardian | is it available on the device ? | 19:47 |
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| tko | there's definitely no composite manager, I'm not sure whether we have composite extension enabled | 19:48 |
| tko | daniels? | 19:48 |
| daniels | tko: ei | 19:48 |
| daniels | tapani's working on it, so it will be enabled at some future stage, but isn't on the n800 | 19:48 |
| tko | yeah, I know that part, I just always keep forgetting how we deal shipping bits we don't use ourselves :) | 19:49 |
| daniels | yeah, the x server for it2006 is still far, far more lle than me ;) | 19:50 |
| lle2 | but I'm now on my second iteration, so it isn't me either ;) | 19:51 |
| keesj | daniels, but the cpu /mem/screen is fast enough to do it | 19:51 |
| lle2 | keesj: compositing? no | 19:51 |
| daniels | lle2: the n800 can do shadows, but probably not translucent windows | 19:51 |
| daniels | tapani has a great shadow implementation, it looks well nice | 19:52 |
| lle2 | daniels: yeah, he showed me | 19:52 |
| daniels | lle2: scratchbox2, lle2 ... what's next? | 19:52 |
| tko | X2 ? :) | 19:52 |
| daniels | tko: you're about 23 years too late | 19:52 |
| tko | who says you can't reuse numbers? :) | 19:53 |
| lle2 | X112? | 19:53 |
| Tak | is there much point in compositing and shadows when you don't have a full window manager? | 19:53 |
| lle2 | Tak: matchbox doesn't count as a wm? | 19:54 |
| Tak | well | 19:54 |
| Tak | do you have the ability to resize windows, drag them around, etc? | 19:54 |
| daniels | lle2: x11r2 was done in the year i was born, i believe | 19:54 |
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| lle2 | Tak: those are design decisions | 19:54 |
| daniels | lle2: otoh, x11r7.2 is coming today, if ajax gets off his arse and finishes the doc stuff :) | 19:54 |
| tko | I have a funny feeling that the hardware just might have an option to do translucent windows efficiently, but no one knows how to tweak the right bit | 19:54 |
| Tak | I mean currently | 19:54 |
| daniels | tko: i wish | 19:54 |
| lle2 | Tak: yes, currently. I think drop shadows are very useful for menus and dialogs | 19:55 |
| * Tak shrugs | 19:55 | |
| Tak | ok | 19:55 |
| daniels | tko: lle worked with some basic acceleration (solid fill and blit is about all we have) back in the 770 days, but it was quicker to just do it all in sw | 19:55 |
| daniels | tko: we'd need to do acceleration with a proper 3d engine to do that | 19:55 |
| Guardian | tko: would have been cool for a full screen overlay thumb keyboard though :) | 19:55 |
| tko | yeah, I remember the blits :-] | 19:55 |
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| tko | Guardian, maybe, maybe.. :) | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | keith packard implemented a compositing window system for embedded devices that had less CPU power than the 770 | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | http://keithp.com/~keithp/talks/twin-ols2005/ IIRC | 19:57 |
| keesj | lle2, it really is possible I do it in xmoto | 19:57 |
| keesj | perhaps not 60fps :) | 19:58 |
| daniels | mgedmin: yeah, twin isn't really that interesting | 19:59 |
| daniels | mgedmin: for one, it barely works right now, and for two, it doesn't have all the nuances and capabilities that you need with a relatively sophisticated ui | 19:59 |
| daniels | mgedmin: it's not a composite, render, or xft-like revolution that we should all follow, it's just keithp getting utterly bored of having worked on the same thing for 21 years | 20:00 |
| dballester | see you | 20:00 |
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| mgedmin | yeah, and dropping X would also require someone to rewrite all the apps | 20:00 |
| daniels | mgedmin: no matter how small your window system is, attempting to do Overs of 800x480 windows won't fly on our device | 20:00 |
| lle2 | keesj: it's possible but there are other things to consider on 770. Memory use was number 1. | 20:00 |
| keesj | cpu , battery :) | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | hm, I forgot the resolution keithp tested twin on | 20:00 |
| daniels | mgedmin: about 100x100 | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | a bit smaller than 800x480 :) | 20:01 |
| daniels | mgedmin: its initial target was basically a watch (a wrist-mounted device) | 20:01 |
| Rotund | Anyone look at the potential of evas on the 770? | 20:01 |
| daniels | mgedmin: just a tad, yes | 20:01 |
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| Rotund | It was designed for speed and low memory usage | 20:01 |
| daniels | Rotund: same thing. compositing 800x480 doesn't fly. | 20:01 |
| lle2 | keesj: we barely had enough RAM to run the set of software we wanted, configuring X to use an extra 2-3 megabytes was just not going to happen | 20:01 |
| daniels | Rotund: yes, but i'm kind of wary of raster-code | 20:01 |
| Rotund | daniels, but esd is used on the 770 | 20:02 |
| daniels | Rotund: he also has a habit of writing benchmarks to show up the absolute worst case of everything else, and the absolute best case of whatever he's written. useful for pointing out bugs, but not even _vaguely_ representative. | 20:02 |
| keesj | lle2, I understand , I was already amazed that there was X | 20:02 |
| daniels | Rotund: yes, and that's a tragedy we're still coming to grips with | 20:02 |
| Rotund | polypaudio? | 20:02 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: I've always wondered why esd was on the device ;) | 20:02 |
| daniels | Rotund: or just alsa with dmix | 20:02 |
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| Rotund | daniels, I can't seem to get dmix to love me on my lappy | 20:03 |
| Tak | ooo, that's a good point, translucency would be great for the thumbboard | 20:03 |
| Tak | I retract my previous comment | 20:03 |
| lle2 | keesj: ended up trying to optimize the video playback in thoroughly braindead way, making the dsp render straight to fb to avoid having a separate few hundred kilobyte buffer | 20:04 |
| keesj | Tak, But I would just be as happy with a real keyboard :) | 20:04 |
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| Tak | I dunno, I like the thumbboard | 20:04 |
| gpd | anyone got gpe calendar to subscribe to google calendar private address? - it can't tell if it is waiting to download or not working | 20:04 |
| Aleksandyr | I've yet to find a real use for the thumbboard: biased because my fingers just don't work with it | 20:04 |
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| Rotund | Make a bluetooth keyboard that slides on like the 770 case and then unfolds | 20:05 |
| Rotund | that's be cool | 20:05 |
| keesj | lle2, it is very interesting to to know what was tried. but I am nowhere near a X or kernel hacker | 20:05 |
| daniels | lle2: you should see the video code now ... | 20:05 |
| lle2 | daniels: how's it done? | 20:06 |
| daniels | lle2: wellll ... | 20:06 |
| Aleksandyr | Rotund: someone proposed that before, and even posted mockups. Rather nifty concept, I agree | 20:06 |
| lle2 | a-ha! ;) | 20:06 |
| arj | I would also like to know if anyone has found a good solution for using google calendar. Running firefox is not that nice | 20:06 |
| daniels | lle2: the simplest case is packed, which is colourspace-converted and scaled in the display controller, then moved over to hailstorm | 20:06 |
| daniels | lle2: if you need to downscale, then we just remove every n'th line in software, since dispc hangs if you try | 20:07 |
| daniels | lle2: but if it's a planar video and unobscured, we convert into a custom format, dump that into the framebuffer, then use hailstorm to do the conversion and scaling. this involves watching for clip notifications and migrating back and forth between dispc and hailstorm silently, blocking updates as you go so you don't issue one with an incorrect colourspace. :) | 20:07 |
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| metajack | arj: google calendar works great for me in opera on n800 | 20:08 |
| lle2 | daniels: that is just smooth :) | 20:08 |
| daniels | lle2: (since rfbi between dispc and hailstorm is the major bottleneck.) | 20:08 |
| daniels | lle2: yeah, it's pretty classy. works surprisingly well, though. | 20:08 |
| daniels | lle2: doing hailstorm also means you don't need to expand planar -> packed, which is nice as well. | 20:08 |
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| lle2 | oh crap I completely forgot I need to go to a movie... x) | 20:09 |
| Tak | hopefully she waited for you ;-) | 20:09 |
| lle2 | -------> | 20:09 |
| daniels | i did that the other night. | 20:09 |
| gpd | metajack: can you add events ? i couldn't click the 'submit' button | 20:09 |
| arj | metajack: ok thanks. It doesn't work well on the n770 using opera | 20:09 |
| daniels | was meant to leave at about 7pm; at 11pm, after hours of arsing about with the bootmem allocator, i remembered ... | 20:10 |
| metajack | gpd: i didn't try that. give me a sec to test | 20:10 |
| gpd | gpe calendar now says 0 minutes ago in the calendar area - so obviously just not grabbing proberly - i should try the public one | 20:11 |
| arj | I installed Dates but it doesn't work all that well | 20:11 |
| Tak | we're using dates | 20:13 |
| Tak | but our calendaring needs are not very strenuous | 20:13 |
| gpd | does dates sync with http://foo/bar.ics ? | 20:13 |
| jpetersen | gpd: i've got a patch for libmimedir which enables you to subscribe google calendar in gpe | 20:14 |
| Tak | it does import and export ICS - I've never tried to sync a web source | 20:14 |
| arj | Tak: how do you import a calender on the device? The menues are useless ;-) | 20:14 |
| gpd | ok - gpe calendar is now now 'subscribed' to google public us holidays calendar :) | 20:15 |
| gpd | jpetersen: is that for the maemo3 version? | 20:15 |
| gpd | ... except that it now loads... and promplty crashes | 20:15 |
| Tak | sorry, I don't recall, and I don't have it in front of me | 20:15 |
| jpetersen | gpd: no i use it on the 770 | 20:15 |
| gpd | jpetersen: will you submit to gpd devs -- or are you a dev!? or should I grab from you? | 20:16 |
| tzz | is there a way to replace the default wm? I think Ion3 may work well on the 770 | 20:16 |
| tzz | doesn't have to be permanent | 20:17 |
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| jpetersen | gpd: i think it will be included in the next released gpe libmimedir package | 20:18 |
| arj | jpetersen: do you have a package handy one can download and use? | 20:18 |
| jpetersen | arj: there should be one for maemo 2.0, mom | 20:19 |
| metajack | gpd: i created an event fine. there seems to be a bug where if you are still in a text field and try to scrolldown it will bring up the keyboard | 20:19 |
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| metajack | getting out of the text field let me scroll down fine though | 20:19 |
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| jpetersen | arj: http://jpetersen.org/maemo/libmimedir0_0.4.0cvs20061111-1_armel.deb | 20:20 |
| jpetersen | i don't know if this package will also work in maemo 3.0 | 20:21 |
| arj | thanks! | 20:21 |
| jpetersen | gpd: maybe you like to try this package, too | 20:22 |
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| gpd | jpetersen: good stuff. | 20:23 |
| gpd | metajack: nice to know -- but offline woudl be good with gpe | 20:23 |
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| jpetersen | i think publishing events to the google calendar from gpe-calendar doesn't work yet | 20:25 |
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| gpd | ok -- i was just thinking of readonly - publishing is rare i think | 20:25 |
| metajack | gpd: my phone is a treo650 which syncs to google cal pretty well, so offline is covered for me on a diff device | 20:25 |
| gpd | ok - given up on subscribe - crashes on start. | 20:26 |
| gpd | attempting import -- gives error: invalid value in attribute RRULE | 20:26 |
| gpd | jpetersen: what does your fix fix? | 20:27 |
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| jpetersen | gpd: a problem in the DURATION and RRULE parsing | 20:27 |
| gpd | ahah! | 20:28 |
| jpetersen | gpd: libmimedir without my patch doesn't support the WKST attribute which is used in google calendar | 20:29 |
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| gpd | jpetersen: i am surprised they didn't add your patch in the maemo3 gpe release -- is any bug report needed? | 20:30 |
| jpetersen | gpd: i provided florian, one of the gpe developers, the patch just today ... | 20:31 |
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| jpetersen | so they couldn't include it yet | 20:32 |
| Disconnect | slackers! | 20:32 |
| Disconnect | they can't do a release every 20 mins? ;) | 20:32 |
| gpd | beautiful - :) | 20:33 |
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| HGFB | I just downloaded the N800 updater. I already had the N770 updater installed and it replaced that one. The odd thing though is that when I ran it it didn't spend 5 mins downloading the latest big update. It just said it was uptodate and let me carry on to the flashing. Is that right? | 20:37 |
| HGFB | Oh. Ignore me. Just being dumb | 20:37 |
| * HGFB shut up | 20:37 | |
| HGFB | Just waiting for it to charge now :) | 20:37 |
| jtokash | Is anyone interested in helping create a list of blogs and news sites that track the 770 and n800? If so, please comment here: http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/11/nokia-internet-tablet-blogs/ | 20:40 |
| HGFB | That would be a very handy list | 20:41 |
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| koen | jtokash: like planet.maemo.org? | 20:48 |
| arj | gpd: how do you add google calendar to GPE? Do you download it and import? | 20:51 |
| arj | aha found it | 20:56 |
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| jpetersen | arj: Tools->Calendars, New Calendar with Type:Subscribe | 20:57 |
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| jpetersen | and enter the ICAL private address into the URI entry | 20:59 |
| arj | argh it's so long ;-) | 20:59 |
| arj | wuw | 21:04 |
| inz | can't you copy/paste? | 21:04 |
| arj | it's working | 21:04 |
| arj | thanks jpetersen | 21:04 |
| jpetersen | arj: fine :) | 21:04 |
| gpd | arj: private or public? | 21:05 |
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| arj | private | 21:06 |
| gpd | hmm -- i installed the new deb and added a private google cal url - but nothing so far | 21:06 |
| gpd | but not crashing and no errors | 21:06 |
| gpd | did your data appear right away? | 21:07 |
| arj | did you sync? | 21:07 |
| arj | after a sync it did | 21:07 |
| gpd | no - where is taht? | 21:07 |
| arj | the update icon in the calendar overview | 21:07 |
| gpd | arj: did you put in username and password? | 21:08 |
| arj | no | 21:09 |
| gpd | hmm -- still not getting it -- let me check the url | 21:09 |
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| gpd | seems to work in opera - trying the downloaded ics | 21:14 |
| gpd | new error: syntax error (missing attrribute name/group)! | 21:14 |
| jpetersen | hm | 21:15 |
| dwd | jpetersen: Does GPE do CalDAV, or just static .ics files? | 21:18 |
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| roope | http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/10/apple-vps-confirm-no-3rd-party-iphone-apps/ | 21:20 |
| jpetersen | dwd: i tried only static ics-files yet | 21:20 |
| HGFB | I just checked my new N800. It already has the latest update. Very handy that | 21:20 |
| HGFB | Nice and fast. Very glad I bought it | 21:20 |
| gpd | dwd: gpe can subscribe to a dav feed | 21:20 |
| dwd | jpetersen: Oh, sorry - since you were answering questions I thought you were involved somehow. :-) | 21:21 |
| dwd | gpd: Ah, interesting. | 21:21 |
| gpd | HGFB: welcome to the N800 club :D | 21:21 |
| jpetersen | dwd: i did some UI-hildon porting and fixed some bugs | 21:22 |
| HGFB | I love it. Someone has bought my 770 too :) | 21:22 |
| gpd | dwd: agreed -- when it works it will be a killer app for me as i just migrated all my calendars from iCal to google | 21:22 |
| Tak | is the n800 club as much fun as the mile-high club? | 21:23 |
| gpd | i need to find a way to do dav vcard syncing or similar | 21:23 |
| gpd | Tak: Yeah baby! | 21:23 |
| * Tak starts saving up his $400 in that case | 21:23 | |
| dwd | gpd: I really ought to do some addressbook synch stuff. | 21:23 |
| dwd | gpd: Mind you, I'd do it via ACAP, which might well not be what you want. Then again, it's unlikely that vCard is, either, really. | 21:24 |
| gpd | never heard of acap -- all i know is that vcard is what i got when i extracted myself from AddressBook (OSX) | 21:25 |
| gpd | it seems quite standard and is better than ldif | 21:25 |
| dwd | Tak: While Nokia don't officially suggest that more sex is the direct result of buying an N800, it's pretty likely they wouldn't confirm it if asked. | 21:25 |
| gpd | dwd: let's not go there -- i am in deep trouble at the moment with my misses after essentially divorcing her for in the last 5 days | 21:26 |
| dwd | Tak: And to be fair, back when I was single, I never found "Hey, this runs Linux device. Look, xterm and everything" was a particularly fine chat-up line. But maybe I went to the wrong pubs. | 21:26 |
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| dwd | gpd: ACAP is neither well known nor well deployed. It just happens to be a PS, and I think it works exceedingly well. As for vCard, there's two different varieties and they're not compatible, plus it's designed for interchange not synch. | 21:28 |
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| gpd | since it is a text file it wouldn't be that hard to 'sync' ??? | 21:29 |
| jpetersen | gpd: your error message suggest another bug in libmimedir | 21:29 |
| dwd | gpd: It's not a text file. :-) | 21:29 |
| framerate | Does Kismet have any major flaws on the 770/800? I just got it running today, was curious how it works for you guys? | 21:29 |
| gpd | the most annoying is Thunderbird -- which to this day (2.0b) doesn't support anything except ldiff or csv | 21:29 |
| gpd | dwd: vcard ? | 21:30 |
| dwd | gpd: Or more accurately, you cannot treat it as one for the purposes of synchronizing. | 21:30 |
| dwd | gpd: You sure there's no extension? vCard is pretty common. Or at least, 2.1 is. 3.0 is less common, but out there. | 21:30 |
| dragorn | framerate: No errors which have been reported to me. | 21:31 |
| gpd | dwd: there is an extension - morecolsxpi or something - i have tried it and it is ok | 21:31 |
| framerate | So all the networks it reports, even the "no id" ones are valid, in your discoveries? | 21:31 |
| framerate | dragorn: also, I heard you might want someone to write a UI for it, anyone ever take you up on that? | 21:32 |
| dragorn | framerate: If you're using a kismet version w/ the n770 support there shouldn't be many/any spurious networks since it does FCS validation | 21:32 |
| dragorn | framerate: If you're using the 2006-04-R1 stable release you'll get tons of crap | 21:32 |
| dragorn | framerate: Next full release coming out soon. SVN has proper 770 support. | 21:32 |
| framerate | dragorn: using it on the 800 actually >.> | 21:32 |
| dragorn | same difference | 21:33 |
| framerate | dragorn: I noticed it not releasing control of my wifi after I quit, is there another way to quit other than 'Q' to prevent this? | 21:34 |
| dragorn | the wireless drivers don't filter invalid frames, but they do put proper checksums on them. Had to add FCS validation for each frame to drop the junk frames | 21:34 |
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| dragorn | it ought to drop it back to managed mode. After that I don't know what the 770 environment does. I've found the drivers to be terribly easy to confuse | 21:35 |
| dragorn | i've even gotten them into a state where they lose wireless extensions entirely | 21:35 |
| framerate | It seems I need to reboot to get back into it, but I've only used it twice so far | 21:35 |
| dragorn | try going into "disable wireless" mode | 21:36 |
| dragorn | then enable wireless again | 21:36 |
| framerate | good call. | 21:36 |
| framerate | so you never had any takers on a hildonized UI for it? or are you working on that? | 21:36 |
| dragorn | nope, no-one has contacted me about it | 21:36 |
| dragorn | and i haven't had time yet | 21:36 |
| dragorn | it's on the list | 21:36 |
| framerate | offline mode -> normal mode still doesn't get control back, it seems | 21:37 |
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| Aleksandyr | call me crazy, but I rather prefer the ncurses UI over a number of the hildon UI's (for other apps) I've seen. | 21:38 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: I'd agree with that, on a majority of the cases. | 21:39 |
| dragorn | i can admit the advantage of a full ui on tablets | 21:39 |
| framerate | But it is definitely case by case basis | 21:39 |
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| Aleksandyr | the only kismet command I use regularly is quit, so I might not be a good example. | 21:41 |
| Pio | everything i've done in it works | 21:43 |
| Pio | locking channels, sorting, viewing the network details, and even running aircrack against the dump files | 21:43 |
| Tak | hmm | 21:43 |
| Tak | how long does it take aircrack on the 770? | 21:43 |
| Pio | havent actually cracked anything | 21:44 |
| Pio | i just wanted to see if it worked | 21:44 |
| Pio | im sure it'd take quite a bit longer than my p4 does :) | 21:44 |
| myren | anyone got a jawbone? | 21:44 |
| myren | jawbone + n800 looks like ap retty righteous combo | 21:44 |
| Tak | myren: I had one, but I threw it away just after I met the boy | 21:44 |
| myren | i sense a joke flying someplace over my head | 21:45 |
| Aleksandyr | as in, the jawbone bluetooth headset? | 21:45 |
| shackan | myren, duck, it's a sharp joke! | 21:45 |
| Tak | Pio: yeah, the time looked like near-infinite when I tried it, but I may have been using it in a suboptimal manner | 21:45 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: yes | 21:46 |
| Tak | s/sharp/lame/ | 21:46 |
| myren | Tak: :-] | 21:46 |
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| Pio | well if you get enough IVs it shouldnt take long at all | 21:47 |
| Pio | ive cracked keys on my p4 in like <30 seconds when i have enough IVs | 21:47 |
| myren | IV? | 21:48 |
| Tak | probably I didn't collect enough | 21:48 |
| Pio | initialization vectors | 21:48 |
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| hub | you get more IVs in 128 bits than 64 bits | 21:50 |
| hub | so it is even easier in WEP 128 | 21:50 |
| HGFB | What bitrate do you guys recommend for encoding video for the N800? | 21:50 |
| framerate | that's one thing I hoped to get around to with this 770 is learning some more about WEP cracking and such | 21:50 |
| Aleksandyr | hub: mmmm, irony. | 21:50 |
| hub | Aleksandyr: yep | 21:50 |
| Pio | hub, but you need more IVs to crack 128 bit as well | 21:50 |
| hub | Pio: but you get even more IVs | 21:51 |
| Pio | but you need more too :) | 21:51 |
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| Pio | im just saying 128 isnt necessarily easier | 21:51 |
| hub | Pio: the ratio is higher in 128b | 21:51 |
| Pio | huh, never heard that | 21:51 |
| Pio | good to know | 21:51 |
| Pio | i always just assumed it was harder | 21:52 |
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| Disconnect | Pio: it must be harder, its a bigger number ;) | 21:53 |
| * Disconnect would have guessed that too tho | 21:53 | |
| hub | you get more clues to guess a harder secret :-) | 21:54 |
| * hub is looking for the proper source online | 21:55 | |
| Aleksandyr | IIRC it's about 4:1 IVs from 128 to 64. Not sure what the IV broadcast rate is. | 21:55 |
| Pio | only wep i ever cracked was 64 | 21:55 |
| Aleksandyr | why would 128 broadcast IVs more frequently? | 21:56 |
| Pio | i think i had about 250k IVs from an arp replay i was doing when it cracked | 21:56 |
| myren | IV's are generated through packet injection no? | 21:57 |
| Pio | or just normal network traffic | 21:57 |
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| Pio | but if the target network is largely idle then ideally you manage to inject packets into it to generate more IVs among the associated clients | 21:58 |
| Aleksandyr | except that doing so tends to require authenticated access to the network | 21:58 |
| Pio | yeah its a trick | 21:58 |
| Aleksandyr | solution is a deauth storm, again IIRC. | 21:58 |
| Pio | aircrack comes with tools to convince the AP you are associated, decrypt arp packets, and replay them | 21:59 |
| Aleksandyr | which forces clients to reconnect, generating traffic. | 21:59 |
| Pio | yeah i havent done that one | 21:59 |
| Pio | i know theres several different working scenarios | 21:59 |
| Aleksandyr | neither have I: I just happen to know a large number of people who do, and there are some things I can't avoid learning ;) | 21:59 |
| myren | its been a long long time since i've looked at abusing wifi | 22:00 |
| Pio | yeah i did the fake association, decrypted an arp, and replay method | 22:00 |
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| myren | wicrawl was looking kind of intersting | 22:00 |
| Pio | it took a long time to figure out, especially without internet access :) i just had the aircrack docs to go from | 22:00 |
| Pio | it was at my internet-less friend's house | 22:00 |
| myren | its a plugin based wifi resource allocator | 22:00 |
| Pio | now every time i go over there im set :) | 22:00 |
| Pio | KEY FOUND! [ 76:89:00:85:64 ] | 22:00 |
| Pio | :) | 22:00 |
| Pio | [00:00:34] Tested 1191 keys (got 222867 IVs) | 22:01 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: wicrawl was really nifty when I had four cards running. Other than that, meh | 22:01 |
| hub | it has more to do about the number of weak IVs | 22:01 |
| hub | and in 128bits you seems to get more | 22:01 |
| Pio | so you get the same amount but they are weaker? | 22:01 |
| Pio | because i know, from aircrack docs, that you need way more IVs for 128 | 22:01 |
| Pio | like 2 million | 22:02 |
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| hub | I wish there was a feature *crack this network* in the 770 | 22:04 |
| hub | ;-) | 22:04 |
| nprice | soooooo anyone used the dennis kirk outlet store | 22:04 |
| jtokash | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/were-getting-some-feedback-and-weve-got.html | 22:04 |
| nprice | whoops wrong channel | 22:04 |
| gpd | dwd: http://dave.cridland.net/acap/ <-- this acap stuff is interesting | 22:05 |
| part | jtokash: it's already in the topic, thanks | 22:05 |
| Aleksandyr | erg. What's a decent equivalent to expect that I might be able to get working on the 770? | 22:05 |
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| part | aleksandyr: expect should work as it is, it's not hardware specific | 22:07 |
| Aleksandyr | part: expect requires Tcl, and configuration, and is a sufficiently useful thing that I figured there would be an equivalent already ported. | 22:07 |
| Pio | hub, yeah, its annoying how 'manual' all the existing cracking tools seem to be | 22:08 |
| Pio | you have to try this, try that.. tinker tinker.. | 22:08 |
| Pio | it could be better automated, thats for sure | 22:08 |
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| Aleksandyr | part: I'm using it to avoid writing my own trie-search: I'd rather not inflict my laziness on my end-users to that degree ;) | 22:08 |
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| Ph3NoMeN0 | hi all :) | 22:10 |
| Tak | expect has a builtin trie search? | 22:11 |
| gpd | dwd: it seems that telomere is a client available for 770! | 22:11 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: in the sense that I plan to use it, yes | 22:11 |
| part | aleksandyr: I can't see why you would want to use expect on a platfrom where it's not available by default | 22:11 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 22:12 |
| Tak | part: by that logic, expect would never have been written | 22:12 |
| Aleksandyr | part: I'm trying to write a stable C wrapper for mplayer's slave mode, and I'm duplicating a great deal of work that libexpect would handle in a much safer fashion. | 22:12 |
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| Tak | Aleksandyr: ooo...a tcp-ip aware wrapper perhaps? | 22:13 |
| part | why not just make mplayer's slave mode api better? | 22:14 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: MaemoTube and an as-yet-unnamed drop-in replacement for osso-video-player. | 22:14 |
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| Aleksandyr | part: see the MPlayer mailing list. It's not a new problem ;) | 22:14 |
| Tak | that sounds like a no | 22:14 |
| part | please no | 22:14 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: define tcp-ip aware, then? | 22:15 |
| whegge | join #rrlug | 22:15 |
| Tak | I'm thinking mplayer slave that listens on a socket | 22:16 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: netcat + mplayer = that. | 22:16 |
| dragorn | hub: it doesn't have much to do with weak IVs | 22:16 |
| part | aleksandyr: anyway, apt-get source expect on a debian system, copy the source over to your scratchbox, compile | 22:16 |
| dragorn | hub: and hasn't in a long time. Weak IVs are a function of the RC4 keyspace and have been avoided by firmware for many years now. | 22:16 |
| Tak | meh | 22:16 |
| Aleksandyr | part: fails due to Tcl dependencies, which as I've said, I really don't want to add as a requirement. | 22:16 |
| part | aleksandyr: expect will require tcl at runtime too | 22:17 |
| tzz | is there a port of gcc to the 770? | 22:17 |
| Aleksandyr | part: which was the start of this conversation: is there something else I might be able to use. | 22:17 |
| hub | tzz: to run on the 770? | 22:18 |
| tzz | right | 22:18 |
| Aleksandyr | tzz: developer rootfs has it, but running gcc on the 770 is...of limited use | 22:19 |
| dragorn | theres nothing stopping you from running a gcc on the hw itself, but... it's not quick. | 22:19 |
| hub | even though I have run gcc on machines with less power :-) | 22:19 |
| part | aleksandyr: I'd just patch the software to include a better slave mode. expect is a solution for closed environments | 22:19 |
| tzz | thanks all | 22:19 |
| part | dragorn: it's a lot better on the n800 | 22:19 |
| keesj | this cairo guy is realy smart! | 22:19 |
| dragorn | part: well yes, you're throwing 2x the power and a bunch more ram at it :P | 22:20 |
| tzz | the Perl Inline::C module is very handy for testing a few lines of C, so I may try to get it working on the 770 | 22:20 |
| part | dragorn: almost.. | 22:20 |
| Aleksandyr | part: I have to disagree on both points. The only better slave mode would be a C library interface, and that's not realistic. | 22:21 |
| part | the more I hear about mplayer, the less I want to use it | 22:22 |
| tzz | hmm, is there a way to piggyback the Scratchbox network connection on the host machine's network? | 22:22 |
| Aleksandyr | part: unfortunately it's by far the most robust video player the 770's got | 22:23 |
| part | tzz: it does that, it's just a chroot | 22:23 |
| Aleksandyr | tzz: kind of done for you: just copy over your /etc/resolv.conf to scratchbox and you should be fine. | 22:23 |
| part | aleksandyr: which is not saying much. I wouldn't want to touch said software on a desktop | 22:23 |
| Aleksandyr | part: agreed! | 22:23 |
| Tak | imo it's the most robust video player for linux in general | 22:24 |
| Aleksandyr | although, XBox Media Center, one of my favorite projects, is MPlayer-based. -that- would be great to have on the 770. | 22:24 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: I'd give that award to VLC. | 22:24 |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | hey dudes, anyone has ever experienced video streaming from a DreamBox to nokia 770/800? | 22:25 |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | is VLC available for 770? sorry I'm new to this device :) I'm going to buy a N800 | 22:29 |
| Aleksandyr | Ph3NoMeN0: it's been done, but no work was released IIRC: http://n770galaxy.blogspot.com | 22:29 |
| Aleksandyr | VLC is not currently available for either device. | 22:29 |
| HGFB | Hmm. For some reason all of a sudden my 800 thinks my sd card is corrupt. Even after a reformat | 22:30 |
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| HGFB | That's a bit of a bitch | 22:30 |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | thnx for the info , so I think I couldn't manage to stream from my dreambox to the tablet | 22:30 |
| Aleksandyr | not right now, no | 22:30 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: what would you do with a socket-aware mplayer? | 22:30 |
| * Aleksandyr is curious. | 22:31 | |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | damn :P It would be one of the most remarkable reason to buy a N800 | 22:31 |
| tzz | aleksandyr: when I log in, /etc/resolv.conf is incorrect, but /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is correct. What am I editing? | 22:31 |
| Tak | make my remote control client app less ssh-hackiness-specific | 22:31 |
| Aleksandyr | tzz: /scratchbox/users/<your username>/etc/resolv.conf | 22:32 |
| shackan | that's dumb.. | 22:32 |
| shackan | Scratchbox group... | 22:32 |
| shackan | E: User not in sbox group, or no new login terminal since group membership. | 22:32 |
| tzz | aleksandyr: thanks. sorry for asking all the obvious questions, I just got started with Scratchbox yesterday. | 22:32 |
| shackan | even after sb-adduser | 22:32 |
| Tak | and probably actually release it | 22:33 |
| Jaffa | re | 22:33 |
| Aleksandyr | tzz: quite alright, I've been there myself :D | 22:33 |
| Aleksandyr | shackan: try `groups`? | 22:34 |
| shackan | Aleksandyr, ok resolved, I was supposed to log out and log in again (??) | 22:34 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: 770 as a remote control for a remote mplayer? | 22:34 |
| dragorn | if you change the groups for your user | 22:34 |
| Tak | yes | 22:34 |
| dragorn | you need to log out and log in again for that to take effect | 22:34 |
| Aleksandyr | shackan: yes, otherwise your user groups don't get updated. | 22:34 |
| dragorn | heh | 22:34 |
| * shackan smacks himself | 22:35 | |
| dragorn | if I typed quicker, that might have even been relevant. | 22:35 |
| Aleksandyr | relevance is overrated | 22:35 |
| HGFB | What the hell is going on here. One minute my sd card was working. The next the 800 is saying it's corrupt and not reading it (It works fine in my PC). Does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong? | 22:35 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: the 770 would claim the memory card was corrupt for a Whole Host of Random Reasons. | 22:35 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: the solution is to open up an xterm, mount it, and see what the -real- problem was. | 22:36 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: I'd be interested in seeing the source, as what I'm writing is, effectively, the same thing | 22:36 |
| HGFB | I can't do that. I don't have root | 22:37 |
| Tak | sure, I can send it to you | 22:37 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: more /etc/sudoers, find the mount command that OS2007 uses, and sudo that. | 22:37 |
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| Tak | note: it is ridiculously hackish and specific to my setup | 22:38 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: and my work -isn't-? | 22:38 |
| Tak | I have no idea, not having seen it :-P | 22:38 |
| HGFB | Can't more the file. Don't have permissions | 22:38 |
| tzz-from-maemo | hello from ERC running inside Emacs running inside Maemo :) Thanks for the help with the network setup! | 22:38 |
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| Aleksandyr | HGFB: install becomeroot then? | 22:39 |
| tzz | I can't wait for my N800 to get here so I can start testing Emacs on it... | 22:39 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: or try sudo /usr/sbin/mmc-mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 | 22:40 |
| Tak | emacs must be a blast without a bt kb | 22:40 |
| Aleksandyr | (which is the 770's command to mount the MMC) | 22:40 |
| tzz | tak: I'm going to add menus to send M-x C-x etc. | 22:40 |
| Pio | are there shortcuts in osso-xterm to do ctrl sequences? i hate doing that tools -> send ctrl thing | 22:40 |
| HGFB | I can't sudo Aleksandyr. I don't have a password and becomeroot warns you can brick your tablet. I'd rather not try that on a 800 without confirmation it works | 22:41 |
| tzz | tak: plus hardware keys of course | 22:41 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: Yes, you can sudo very specific things, that's how some UIs function in OS2006 and I highly doubt they altered that in 2007. | 22:41 |
| tzz | tak: stuff like Gnus and dired is already very good without a keyboard in Emacs btw. | 22:42 |
| Jaffa | HGFB: install the ssh server and ssh root@127.0.0.1 then | 22:42 |
| HGFB | Aleksandyr, It's still asking for a sudo password | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: Furthermore, becomeroot doesn't brick your tablet, you doing bad things as root bricks your tablet. Even then, an OS reflash fixes it. | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: hrm, on the 770, all the sudo commands you can do are NOPASSWD. | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: well, we don't know for *sure* that becomeroot's modification of /etc/sudoers won't leave it semi-broken. | 22:43 |
| framerate | HGFB: I have becomeroot on my 800 with no problems seen yet | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: framerate makes the fourth person I've heard say it works on their N800 | 22:44 |
| tzz | under the SDK_X86 target in maemo 3, un-Hildonized applications still work properly when minimized, unlike 1.x/2.x as I remember. Is that also true for the real N800 environment? | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | ah, there we go. | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: fair enough, I'll add that to my mental file | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: I try not to brick other people's tablets. It's a karma thing :D | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: :) | 22:44 |
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| HGFB | mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: no such file or directory | 22:47 |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | and what about samba? is it possible with a N800 to share a folder on a Mac or a Linux Machine ? | 22:48 |
| HGFB | Right. Done it properly now. I'm getting device or resource busy. | 22:49 |
| HGFB | Does anyone know what might be stopping the card from being mounted? | 22:51 |
| shackan | oh damn | 22:53 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: tried restarting the device, I assume? | 22:53 |
| HGFB | Yup | 22:53 |
| HGFB | No effect | 22:53 |
| shackan | I don't have enough space on / and just fscked everything up when moving /scratchbox on another partition | 22:53 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: output of "mount" ? | 22:53 |
| HGFB | Device or resource busy | 22:54 |
| atla | is there also gtkmm available on n770 and n800? | 22:54 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: mount with no options says that? | 22:55 |
| HGFB | Ah. I see what you're getting at. One second | 22:55 |
| framerate | HGFB: my n800 says "card in use" too for the card in came with (after a day) and is now corrupt | 22:56 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: I'm paying attention, I swear :D | 22:56 |
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| HGFB | Mount shows nothing is mounted on mmc1 | 22:56 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: swapon -s | 22:57 |
| Aleksandyr | HGFB: it's not mmc1 that's busy, it's /dev/mmcblk* I suspect | 22:57 |
| HGFB | -s isn't an option | 22:57 |
| HGFB | swapn [-a] device | 22:57 |
| Aleksandyr | fkn busybox! | 22:57 |
| Aleksandyr | cat /proc/swaps | 22:58 |
| HGFB | empty | 22:58 |
| HGFB | I could probably fix this by reflashing but two of us have this problem so far. It might be better if we can figure out what's broken | 22:58 |
| framerate | k guess it's not related to my issue :( | 22:59 |
| HGFB | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29005#post29005 | 23:00 |
| HGFB | Someone else with the problem | 23:00 |
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| framerate | Is there an image slideshow program ported to the N800 yet? This thing is begging to be a small digital photoframe | 23:02 |
| Tak | there's the Images utility | 23:03 |
| framerate | I didn't think it had a slideshow, but I may ahve missed it | 23:03 |
| roope | Nope, unfortunately. | 23:04 |
| roope | Tigert was talking about this small app to contact flickr and run slideshows of the pictures of your flickr contacts. Now that would be nice. | 23:04 |
| framerate | Hmm, in SDL a slideshow would take like an hour to write, I'd think | 23:04 |
| HGFB | I've fixed it | 23:06 |
| HGFB | And discovered something interesting about my new toy | 23:06 |
| HGFB | If I have the power cable connected shutting down doesn't actually shut down. Once I rebooted properly it worked again | 23:06 |
| * HGFB feels dumb | 23:06 | |
| HGFB | Ah well. At least I got becomeroot out of it :) | 23:06 |
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| HGFB | Which ssh server do you recommend I install? | 23:09 |
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| Milhouse | "sudo gainroot; apt-get install ssh" works for me | 23:17 |
| Milhouse | that should install openssh | 23:17 |
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| Ph3NoMeN0 | and what about samba? is it possible with a N800 to share a folder on a Mac or a Linux Machine ? | 23:33 |
| Ph3NoMeN0 | I repeat :) sorry | 23:33 |
| Milhouse | Yes | 23:36 |
| Milhouse | If not now, then certainly once the samba package has been recompiled for the new N800 kernel | 23:37 |
| Milhouse | definately possible on the 770 | 23:37 |
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| gpd | hmm... gizmoproject not working so well today - says i am on the phone but not ringing the other end | 23:48 |
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| Ph3NoMeN0 | Milhouse: Thnx | 23:55 |
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