| daniels | dwd: well, write your own module, and you can do whatever you like over usb. :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| *** waite has left #maemo | 00:00 | |
| daniels | dwd: or just use libusb | 00:00 |
| daniels | hub: /topic | 00:00 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Yes, but the GPS is owned by the US. Various other countries are a little nervous about that, and are putting together a more neutral one. | 00:00 |
| hub | daniels: you mean they'll announce it? | 00:00 |
| hub | daniels: ok. | 00:00 |
| hub | anyway looks like I'll have hard time here, because Canada is like 3rd-world | 00:01 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: being a citizen of the US, I can entirely understand how we might make other countries nervous, sadly --- I'm aware of that effort, but they're not calling it GPS. Dear god, I hope not, at least... | 00:01 |
| dwd | hub: No, you'll be contacted if you win the N800 lottery. | 00:01 |
| daniels | hub: i mean that there's no way to apply; developers will just be selected, and anyone who gets picked will get emailed | 00:01 |
| hub | ah ok | 00:01 |
| Milhouse | Euro GPS is called Galileo | 00:01 |
| * hub has one won at guadec 2005 | 00:01 | |
| * bstock wonders if its possible to apply to be developer for n800 lottery, even if he can't develope | 00:02 | |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 00:03 | |
| *** mcpeepants has quit IRC | 00:03 | |
| dwd | bstock: You don't need to be a developer, you just need to sound like one on the right mailing lists. Just make lots of posts saying "I think there's a D-bus interface for that", and "No, only on the N800", and that kind of thing. | 00:04 |
| Milhouse | what about "It's not a phone!" | 00:04 |
| Milhouse | ? | 00:04 |
| *** t_b_b is now known as |tbb| | 00:04 | |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: hrm. I rather hope it's not based on the mailing lists, but that's far more logical than anything else I've heard ;) | 00:04 |
| *** |tbb| is now known as noch | 00:04 | |
| daniels | dwd: haha | 00:05 |
| *** noch is now known as |tbb| | 00:05 | |
| bstock | you need to install the jdk, not the jre, dumbass! <-- how's that sound? wait.. prob not a lot of java programming on these tablets.. | 00:05 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: I hope it's based on people who take a leading role in developing standards relevant to the device, and provide first implementations of them. | 00:06 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: But perhaps I'm a little biased. | 00:06 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: how about ARM != armel? That's one I haven't heard in awhile :D | 00:06 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: Just a pinch, you think? ;) | 00:06 |
| hub | Aleksandyr: there is armbe | 00:06 |
| hub | :-) | 00:06 |
| bstock | heh i knew that one, though i don't really know the difference if someone asked me to explain | 00:06 |
| daniels | hub: armeb | 00:08 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: ARM is what every other linux PDA uses. Armel is what 2006 uses. ;) | 00:08 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels & hub: please, not another thing to remember ;) | 00:08 |
| bstock | so Armel > ARM | 00:08 |
| dwd | bstock: Also, never refer to anything by the name anyone else uses, instead pick the most obscure designation. So, for instance, don't say SMTP, say RFC4409. | 00:08 |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: it's okay, big-endian arm doesn't actually exist | 00:08 |
| daniels | bstock: not really. arm is an architecture. originally there was an abi for arm called oabi. the new one is eabi, and it's not crap. | 00:09 |
| bstock | lol yeah that sounds developer-ish | 00:09 |
| bstock | g/j ;) | 00:09 |
| bstock | i'll just copy/paste that line into a mailing list somewhere and win an n800 | 00:09 |
| hub | daniels: armbe | 00:10 |
| Milhouse | will the list of "winners" be published or will it be like these cornflake packet competitions to win a mansion and you never know if anyone won it in the end? :) | 00:10 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: whew. | 00:10 |
| hub | the ARM architecture works indifferently in big endian (be) and little endian (el). | 00:11 |
| c0ffee | hum hum | 00:11 |
| daniels | hub: right, but the port name is armeb | 00:11 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: When do you think we'll see RFC1149 support on the device? | 00:11 |
| dwd | Milhouse: Nobody will. This is a tactic by Nokia to get a surge in development of free third party apps to bolster their sales. | 00:11 |
| hub | just that this byte order is define by the ship | 00:11 |
| daniels | hub: armeb : armel :: armbe : armle | 00:11 |
| c0ffee | does somebody know whether the NICI client will be released as source soon | 00:11 |
| c0ffee | or is it worth the effort to push video for another client? | 00:11 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, what about the zenity port? so hard? | 00:11 |
| hub | s/ship/chip/ | 00:11 |
| daniels | Milhouse: publishing it seems a bit harsh. 'look at all these other people who got one, and you didn't! ha ha!' | 00:11 |
| c0ffee | since the windows NICI looks very GPLish | 00:11 |
| hub | or board | 00:11 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: With or without RFC2549? | 00:11 |
| Milhouse | dwd: or alternatively, freeze n800 development while all the developers wait around for their subsidised N800's that are never going to come | 00:12 |
| Milhouse | :) | 00:12 |
| pokute_ | Hey. | 00:12 |
| Milhouse | It's all a scam I tell you! | 00:12 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: I think we can delay RFC2549 support until RFC1149 industry uptake reaches significant levels. | 00:12 |
| pokute_ | Did anyone ask the most important question on iPhone - Does it play Oggs? | 00:12 |
| Milhouse | yes, and XviD and DivX | 00:12 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: I'm still working on it, but it looks ugly and won't compile cleanly. I may just write something similar from scratch instead. | 00:12 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, :) | 00:13 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: obviously whatever I put together will be fairly compatible if not entirely compatible with zenity, plus or minus hildon widgets. | 00:13 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, agree | 00:13 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: furthermore, there's a zenity in the rootstrap 0.o | 00:13 |
| kender | O_o | 00:13 |
| Milhouse | I can just see the fallout after the iPhone is released: everyone uses it to listen to audio and/or watch video, they take a phone call and the device dies - "Low Battery!" | 00:14 |
| Milhouse | suspect the iPhone will be a classic compromise in the end | 00:14 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, url? | 00:15 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: I just want the 770 to comply with all the SHOULDs in RFC1122. | 00:15 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: fire up scratchbox and run zenity. | 00:15 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, one second | 00:15 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Specifically, the last one in section 3.5 | 00:15 |
| kender | [sbox-SDK_PC: ~] > zenity | 00:15 |
| kender | bash: zenity: command not found | 00:15 |
| kender | not for me | 00:16 |
| kender | hehe | 00:16 |
| *** _matthias_ has joined #maemo | 00:16 | |
| Aleksandyr | kender: erm, I sure as heck couldn't get my compiled version to work ;) | 00:16 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: Hah. | 00:16 |
| dwd | Milhouse: This is another reason why I like the 770 taking the smart out of phone. If the 770 dies, it's not a major problem. If my phone dies, that's really bad news. | 00:16 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: That one is less well known. | 00:17 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: Yes, and I will now steal it. ;) | 00:17 |
| lle | I hope the iPhone will be really good. Not that I'd personally necessarily want to buy it, but the mobile phone industry needs a good solid kick to remember to focus on the actual end-user, instead of questionable business plans for operators. | 00:17 |
| * Aleksandyr wonders if he accidentally got zenity working when he wasn't paying attention. | 00:17 | |
| Milhouse | I can see people bitching about the battery life on the iPhone once they start using all it's functions and are away from a power socket for more than 12 hours | 00:17 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: If you're ever buying routers, tell the salesman you require full conformance to RFC1122, and ask him to demonstrate. | 00:17 |
| Milhouse | I guess it will only lead to a surge in the sale of USB powered docks for people to have at work... | 00:17 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: being as I work for 3COM (at the moment), there are more subtle applications to the joke ;) | 00:18 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Oh, what fun! | 00:18 |
| *** espo has joined #maemo | 00:18 | |
| VRe | Milhouse: There was something about separate battery for phone and ipod | 00:18 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, If you don't want, don't port it, I'll buy a N800 and I'll port it myself.....(look this phrase in the good way...with no bad intentions) | 00:18 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, and...sorry my english | 00:19 |
| kender | hehe | 00:19 |
| Milhouse | seperate batter? that means you have to carry an extra battery and swap it over (resetting the device)... not ideal, really | 00:19 |
| kender | I can't say what I want exactly, nor understard you correctly | 00:19 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, I very much want to port it, it's just not nearly as easy as it ought to be, and it won't work as well as it should, and it's simple enough that I should just write it properly using hildon widgets ;) | 00:19 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, nice, I can understand it :) | 00:19 |
| Aleksandyr | I really want to know where the working version in my rootstrap came from | 00:19 |
| kender | hehehe | 00:20 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, I didn't understand you last time | 00:20 |
| kender | now yes | 00:20 |
| kender | sorry | 00:20 |
| kender | see you | 00:21 |
| kender | ;-) | 00:21 |
| Milhouse | I bet this costs Apple a pretty penny: http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&WTmodLOC=C3-News-2&symbol=CSCO.O&storyID=2007-01-09T190050Z_01_N09161330_RTRIDST_0_APPLE-IPHONE-CISCO-URGENT.XML&type=qcna | 00:21 |
| espo | what will the nokia n800 cost? | 00:21 |
| Milhouse | $400/399 EUR/£269 | 00:21 |
| ||cw | same as the 770 did, right? | 00:22 |
| kender | hehehe | 00:22 |
| Milhouse | slightly more expensive | 00:22 |
| espo | ohh okay so i have to get some money away :)) | 00:22 |
| Aleksandyr | $400 before US sales taxes / 399 EUR with sales taxes. | 00:22 |
| ||cw | ah, $50 more | 00:22 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 00:22 | |
| *** kender has quit IRC | 00:22 | |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 00:23 | |
| *** Ryback_ has quit IRC | 00:24 | |
| konttori | By the way, considering how fast the video is on N800, why is flash video (like youtube) so slow on N800? Just poor implementation or some serios bottleneck somewhere that can't be fixed easily? | 00:24 |
| Jaffa | Naive implementation by Adobe, would be my guess. | 00:24 |
| bstock | man flash sucks. someone needs to write a better open-source version | 00:24 |
| espo | hmm maybe some java hacking is then possible on the nokia n800 :) | 00:25 |
| Aleksandyr | I would put money on Adobe using software decoding. | 00:25 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: there are...several projects working on that. I want to say three. They all suck worse :D | 00:25 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: www.osflash.org | 00:25 |
| Aleksandyr | most open source flash deals with generating the flash, not playing it. | 00:26 |
| *** moo_mou has quit IRC | 00:26 | |
| bstock | yeah and since they added video support it's probably even worse | 00:26 |
| Aleksandyr | http://www.schleef.org/swfdec/ is actually promising. GStreamer-based. | 00:26 |
| bstock | it just sucks, especially for the linux community, that we always have to wait on adobe | 00:26 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: don't get me started on flash video please :D | 00:27 |
| *** livingtm has joined #maemo | 00:27 | |
| livingtm | can you guys help me out with a stupid 770 question? | 00:27 |
| *** Lateralus has quit IRC | 00:27 | |
| dwd | livingtm: If we can. | 00:27 |
| Jaffa | livingtm: it's better to ask, rather than ask about asking | 00:27 |
| livingtm | I can swear the browser used to load images by default. Now it doesnt seem to | 00:27 |
| livingtm | Jaffa, sorry :-) | 00:27 |
| shapr | Flash just sucks. I hope SVG and SMIL beat it. | 00:28 |
| c0ffee | livingtm, already in 2006 you had to enable that | 00:28 |
| daniels | konttori: flash is specified to be pixel-perfect, which means that it can't use any hardware acceleration, including for video colourspace conversion | 00:28 |
| c0ffee | livingtm, the default is to display cached images only | 00:28 |
| *** Lateralus has joined #maemo | 00:28 | |
| livingtm | I have to click on each image and tell it to load | 00:28 |
| daniels | konttori: this is why the alternative implementations actually break things | 00:28 |
| livingtm | wheres the setting? | 00:28 |
| c0ffee | in the menu | 00:28 |
| daniels | konttori: and why the adobe one doesn't use any acceleration, but rasterises everything itself | 00:28 |
| konttori | I wonder how hard it would be to make a plugin for opera that would allow opening the flash video files in mplayer on click. | 00:28 |
| c0ffee | dont have my 770 handy right now, sorry | 00:28 |
| dwd | livingtm: View->Show Images->Always | 00:28 |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: supposedly this has already been done, but I've yet to find a real reference on it | 00:28 |
| shapr | konttori: Sorenson codec is not available. | 00:29 |
| shapr | What's it, called, VP4? | 00:29 |
| livingtm | ah thanks.. dont know why i couldnt find that before | 00:29 |
| dwd | livingtm: Took me a couple of goes to find it too. | 00:29 |
| konttori | I thought sorenson was available for mplayer | 00:29 |
| * shapr checks | 00:29 | |
| livingtm | I want a mythtv front end for the 770... is anyone doing that? :-) | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | livingtm: Freevo's more likely now I've switched back to that. | 00:30 |
| Aleksandyr | livingtm: I gave up on Myth ages ago. recent mplayer builds handle NuppleVideo. | 00:30 |
| konttori | http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/codecs-status.html looks like sorenson is supporter | 00:30 |
| Aleksandyr | I've yet to hear of any decent video library streaming solutions for the 770, which is why I keep thinking about hacking one together. | 00:30 |
| livingtm | I was having a fair amountof luck using the mythweb extension | 00:30 |
| livingtm | but you have to encode to something the 770 can render | 00:31 |
| *** gummibaerchen has joined #maemo | 00:31 | |
| livingtm | fast enough | 00:31 |
| livingtm | anyhow, thanks a bunch | 00:31 |
| *** livingtm has left #maemo | 00:31 | |
| suihkulokki | what's the easiest way to split a divx avi into two files? | 00:31 |
| Aleksandyr | erm, anyone know if Cairo is available/works decently as a rendering API on the 770? | 00:32 |
| konttori | Aleksandyr: are you thinking about UPnp video streaming? | 00:32 |
| shapr | konttori: I think it's Sorenson 4 that's missing. | 00:32 |
| *** dannym has joined #maemo | 00:32 | |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: any kind of video streaming, really. | 00:32 |
| shapr | konttori: It's whatever video format is only found in Flash 8, but not in Flash 7. | 00:32 |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: I'd like orb to work, and work perfectly. | 00:32 |
| suihkulokki | VP6 | 00:33 |
| konttori | shapr: ahh.. ok. I'm pretty sure that's on the pipeline. And in the meanwhile, even flash 7 video would be better than none | 00:33 |
| *** espo has quit IRC | 00:33 | |
| konttori | Aleksandyr: Very good idea. Is it possible to stream to mplayer through orb? | 00:33 |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: yes, but with a lot of copy+pasting of links. | 00:34 |
| konttori | That would be my first starting point to check | 00:34 |
| Aleksandyr | I mean, I -can- stream video, I simply have to carry quite a bit myself. | 00:34 |
| konttori | Aleksandyr: so, perhaps some script and small plugin to opera? | 00:34 |
| Aleksandyr | aaaand cairo needs an FPU. Drat. | 00:34 |
| konttori | If you are up to it, I'm sure people would be very pleased | 00:34 |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: as of right now I've yet to hear of a successful user-written opera plugin for maemo. | 00:34 |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: er, doesn't need an fpu | 00:34 |
| Aleksandyr | konttori: or, I would write it. | 00:35 |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: carl had it going on the 770, and there's been a lot of optimisation work around that | 00:35 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: s/need/basically requires the presence of for reasonable performance/ | 00:35 |
| ntrs | I need Java applets support for N800. | 00:35 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: ooooh. | 00:35 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: where can I find this? | 00:35 |
| konttori | I wonder if guys @ nokia could help on the plugin. | 00:35 |
| *** |tbb| has left #maemo | 00:35 | |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: just in standard upstream cairo | 00:36 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: well then, let's see what swfdec can do :D ty | 00:36 |
| timeless | ntrs: got a million dollars? | 00:36 |
| ntrs | timeless, hehe, no. I need it for free or included with the next update from nokia. I doubt it will cost $1 mil anyway. | 00:37 |
| timeless | ntrs: i suspect it'll cost more | 00:37 |
| timeless | and you're welcome to dream, however until i seee your million, i don't think i'd hold my breath | 00:37 |
| ntrs | timeless, well that should be pocket change for nokia. | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: isn't Opera supposed to support the old Netscape plugin API? Not that I've ever used it, so that still might be tricky | 00:38 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: yes, through the existence of an Opera plugin that handles translations and does not seem to be present on the 770 | 00:38 |
| ntrs | I mean seriously. What kind of an internet applicance/tablet N800 is if it does not support Java applets. They are pretty much everywhere on the web. | 00:39 |
| timeless | unfortunately, the opera on the 770 is hacked | 00:39 |
| timeless | it's npapi, yes | 00:39 |
| timeless | but it isn't compatible w/ standrd npapi | 00:39 |
| konttori | opera 9 has the netscape api. opera 8 doesn't | 00:39 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: erm, I've yet to find a java applet I needed to run on my 770 in two years. | 00:39 |
| timeless | this is nokia's fault | 00:39 |
| lle | blame nokiaaa... | 00:39 |
| *** jamey has quit IRC | 00:39 | |
| konttori | poker sites need java. that's a nice market for internet tablets | 00:39 |
| bstock | is there a repo for cairo? it not on application catalog | 00:39 |
| timeless | i think the minimo system probably offers cairo | 00:40 |
| Aleksandyr | it's nokia's fault for releasing the 770. If nokia hadn't released the 770, I wouldn't be in here: I'd be out at a bar socializing :P | 00:40 |
| timeless | since modern gecko rquires it | 00:40 |
| Tak | heh | 00:41 |
| bstock | wait nm, it's not cairo i wanted, it was canola | 00:41 |
| *** snorkelyd has left #maemo | 00:41 | |
| timeless | indt has canola | 00:41 |
| Tak | quite a difference there | 00:41 |
| * Jaffa doesn't want Java GUIs, but phoneME for the wealth of apps (I've realised) and J2SE for thick client development and general playage. | 00:42 | |
| bstock | heh yeah | 00:42 |
| * Aleksandyr really wants PhoneME for GMail Mobile and Yahoo! Go. | 00:42 | |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: btw, did you try sending me that classpath build stuff? If so, I never got it :-( anon ftp might be easier | 00:42 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: erm, I did anon ftp it | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | ah ok | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | I'll check the folder :) | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | Ta muchly :) | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | Got it :) | 00:43 |
| Aleksandyr | I probably should have done a make clean before sending ;) | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | Ah well. Theoretically, dpkg-buildpackage in scratchbox should work? | 00:44 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: Better than theoretically. | 00:44 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: caveat: you'll need jikes installed in your host apps. | 00:44 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: excellent. Does it have any build depen... ok. | 00:44 |
| bstock | i noticed there's different repos for canola if running mistral vs. scirocco, does scirocco have better performance for canola? | 00:45 |
| * Jaffa is all excited about Maemo after watching the iPhone launch. See what's possible, now? | 00:45 | |
| glass_ | using iphone as a crappy bt edge modem year from now? | 00:46 |
| *** gummibaerchen has quit IRC | 00:47 | |
| * Aleksandyr worries when he needs to add a "#include <sys/time.h>" in order to get an application to compile. | 00:47 | |
| * Jaffa meant in terms of UI. The iPhone in no way meets my requirements: I'd hoped for a small, decent UI phone | 00:47 | |
| Tak | ouch @ time.h | 00:48 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: is just jikes enough to build classpath or does it need a class library to boot strap from? | 00:50 |
| *** ferulo has quit IRC | 00:50 | |
| dannym | Aleksandyr: depends on the un*x version :) | 00:51 |
| * konttori is so with jaffa on the small phone aspect. And even more on the Learn from apple issue. | 00:51 | |
| *** spect has quit IRC | 00:51 | |
| Aleksandyr | dannym: trust me, I have reason for alarm. | 00:52 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: just jikes, IIRC. | 00:52 |
| dannym | Aleksandyr: but basically you need sys/time.h when you use any "newer" time functions (i.e. with better than 1 second resolution) | 00:52 |
| Aleksandyr | dannym: this was for select(). | 00:52 |
| dannym | Aleksandyr: ah? why... | 00:52 |
| Aleksandyr | dannym: for a large and complicated program that I can't begin to understand ;) | 00:52 |
| dannym | Aleksandyr: oh, yeah... select has a sub-second-resolution timeout ;) | 00:53 |
| Aleksandyr | gstreamer + i386 rootstrap = forget about it, build and deploy on the device? | 00:53 |
| Aleksandyr | build in SDK_ARMEL, deploy to test, rather. | 00:54 |
| Tak | I always deploy to test anyway | 00:55 |
| Tak | running in scratchbox+xephyr only gives (me) the vaguest idea whether/how something will actually run on the device | 00:55 |
| Jaffa | Tak: indeed. | 00:56 |
| Jaffa | Which is what worries me about supporting the other of N770/N800 | 00:56 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: I'm working on a total shot-in-the-dark that, if it works, will make me a hero. Therefore, it probably won't work, and I'd rather trash my scratchbox than much about with my device ;) | 00:56 |
| * Tak shrugs | 00:56 | |
| bstock | hwowcome when i install an app i always get '/bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found | 00:57 |
| Tak | Jaffa: yeah, exactly | 00:57 |
| daniels | bstock: because apt wasn't properly hacked. don't worry, it's not a problem. | 00:57 |
| bstock | ok, yeah it always seemed to work fine just curious is all | 00:57 |
| *** keesj is now known as k-way | 00:58 | |
| *** bergie has quit IRC | 00:58 | |
| dwd | Jaffa: I took a look at your video converter script, and it must work, because I'm now engrossed in watching The Incredibles. | 00:58 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 00:59 | |
| Jaffa | dwd: heh :) | 00:59 |
| * dwd reads back. | 00:59 | |
| dwd | Jaffa: And yes, I test on the device too - Telomer runs very quick indeed on a dual Opteron, it's not quite as quick on the 770 itself. | 01:00 |
| konttori | can telomer support split screen where the list is on the upper part and message preview below? | 01:05 |
| konttori | from this http://blog.dave.cridland.net/?cat=9 I got the impression it's list separate, message separate window / view | 01:06 |
| dwd | konttori: Not now. It uses a different window for view and summary. | 01:06 |
| *** korc_ has left #maemo | 01:06 | |
| dwd | konttori: I just thought it'd be better for the 770 that way. No reason not to have an option there, though. | 01:07 |
| konttori | Can you use the same window, just flip the pane to view message? So that window creation / switch wouldn't be necessary | 01:07 |
| bstock | didn't someone menton video encoder for 770? | 01:08 |
| konttori | dwd: cool. Also, then would good if preview could use different font (as you are previewing it, not reading it) and a button to view full screen / other widget for the switch | 01:08 |
| konttori | bstock: maybe at some point, but not for quite a while, I think | 01:09 |
| dwd | konttori: Should be able to, yes. The summary and renderer are both widgets, in effect, not top level windows. Minor tweak to change font sizes. | 01:09 |
| dwd | bstock: I mentioned Jaffa's script. www.bleb.org somewhere. | 01:09 |
| *** florian_ has joined #maemo | 01:09 | |
| konttori | dwd: would be great. I loved it on sylpheed for it 2005 | 01:09 |
| dwd | konttori: I do it on Polymer - in fact, there's no seperate view at all, just the preview. | 01:10 |
| konttori | you can get media converter here (1.21 latest) https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=26 | 01:10 |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 01:10 | |
| konttori | dwd: ahh... great! | 01:10 |
| *** florian_ is now known as florian_kc | 01:11 | |
| bstock | hmm that vidconvert is pretty cool. do you know if the source is posted? | 01:11 |
| konttori | apple keynote is available for viewing: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/event/ | 01:12 |
| bstock | nm think i found it on the site | 01:12 |
| bstock | wow that didn't take them too long to post it | 01:12 |
| *** matt_c has quit IRC | 01:13 | |
| dwd | konttori: Feel free to give me a patch. Or log a bug. Otherwise the chances are I won't remember. | 01:13 |
| Jaffa | bstock: The main script is at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode | 01:14 |
| konttori | dwd: I'll kep that in mind. Probably won't have the time to make a patch (getting to know the source code takes time) | 01:14 |
| Jaffa | The source for the queue system and stuff is available to people if they're going to improve it - ask me for details | 01:14 |
| *** loicm_ has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| c0ffee | ah, xephyr finally compiled | 01:15 |
| c0ffee | now see whether it actually works :) | 01:15 |
| *** chenca has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| c0ffee | sweeeet | 01:16 |
| *** _matthias_ has quit IRC | 01:16 | |
| bstock | hey konttori, your zip file doesn't seem to be here anymore: http://www.helsinki.fi/~konttori/MediaConverter.zip | 01:17 |
| bstock | Jaffa: thanks, i found it and downloaded it for safe keeping :) | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | bstock: my pleasure | 01:18 |
| konttori | Yeah, it's here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=26 | 01:18 |
| konttori | Is there a link that point to wrong place? | 01:18 |
| bstock | thx | 01:18 |
| bstock | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569 | 01:18 |
| bstock | found that from jaffa's page | 01:18 |
| Jaffa | Ah yeah, I should update that to point to the garage project | 01:19 |
| Jaffa | Sorry. | 01:19 |
| bstock | i should update my site to have cool, usefull tools on it | 01:19 |
| Jaffa | Fixed. | 01:19 |
| konttori | jaffa: thanks | 01:20 |
| bstock | i do have everyone's favorite game though: http://www.bradleystock.com/site/BaconBard.swf | 01:21 |
| lardman | I see the docs say that the toolchain is the same for v3.0 as for v2.1 | 01:22 |
| lardman | does this mean that the vfp unit/acceleration is not used? | 01:22 |
| lardman | or is this one of the wonders of EABI I wonder | 01:23 |
| c0ffee | daniels, do you know who's responsible for the video chat thing? esp. the pc client | 01:24 |
| daniels | c0ffee: no, sorry | 01:24 |
| c0ffee | hum hum | 01:24 |
| c0ffee | i think it shouldn't be too hard to implement a client using existing components | 01:25 |
| *** rev has joined #maemo | 01:25 | |
| c0ffee | otoh the windows client looks like somebody forced a linux client to run on windows | 01:25 |
| * Jaffa beds. | 01:25 | |
| c0ffee | esp. one using tons of GPL components | 01:25 |
| c0ffee | so I'd expect it will be released as source sooner or later and I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort | 01:25 |
| *** Imrahil has joined #maemo | 01:29 | |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 01:31 | |
| Jaffa | Anyone tried a touch and grab image viewer (like daniels was suggesting earlier) | 01:32 |
| *** qgil has left #maemo | 01:32 | |
| rev | so ... iphone? | 01:32 |
| Jaffa | Watching the iPhone demos with the grab, stretch, pinch action is very cool | 01:32 |
| *** danguy has joined #maemo | 01:32 | |
| Jaffa | Using the select as a mode modifier would do: tap, hold, press select and drag. Has the 770 or N800 got the grunts to do it? | 01:33 |
| rev | that's wild | 01:34 |
| rev | i just got home, not been able to folow the iphone devopments | 01:34 |
| rev | my wife scared me- she told me the res of theihpone was only 320x240 | 01:34 |
| rev | so i wrote it off ... | 01:35 |
| Jaffa | NO, 320x480 is so much better. | 01:35 |
| Jaffa | o | 01:35 |
| Jaffa | *cough* | 01:35 |
| rev | even though i want nothing more than a Newton 2.0 - which is why i bought the nokia 770, it is the closest thing to a newton 2.0 that you can get right now | 01:35 |
| rev | yeah, that isn't a bad res ... i'd prefer VGA or better, naturally, but that isn't too bad | 01:36 |
| rev | heck 320x480 is the res of the Newton 2x00. i've a clie with that res and it is pretty decent | 01:36 |
| hub | rev: how can the N770 be a Newton, it does not even have PDA software by default? | 01:37 |
| *** matt_c has joined #maemo | 01:37 | |
| myren | i dont know where people got the 320x480 spec | 01:37 |
| myren | it seems to be official | 01:37 |
| rev | hub: well, "PDA software" is something i've never used much of on any PDA, be it the newton, CE, Linux, or palm OS devices | 01:38 |
| rev | myren: it's on the site http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html | 01:38 |
| myren | but jobs said 160 DPI. a 3.5 inch screen of 16:9 resolution is 480x272, which is a fairly standard res | 01:38 |
| rev | hub: i use PDAs as computers, not as overpriced crashworthy organizers | 01:38 |
| myren | 320x480 is not at all widescreen | 01:38 |
| rev | myren: why isn't it? | 01:38 |
| dannym | jaebird: "touch and grab image viewer"? | 01:38 |
| myren | its going to be weird developing with such extremely non square pixels | 01:38 |
| rev | myren: looks fullscreen on my clie | 01:38 |
| hub | rev: so you carry a paper organizer as well? | 01:38 |
| *** bstock has left #maemo | 01:39 | |
| dannym | oops | 01:39 |
| dannym | Jaffa: "touch and grab image viewer"? | 01:39 |
| konttori | dannym: like iphone photo viewer | 01:39 |
| myren | 480 wide at 16:9 is 270 pixels | 01:39 |
| Jaffa | dannym: have you seen a multitouch demo, either on the iPhone or on the larger Google videos which are floating around | 01:39 |
| myren | there's 50 extra pixels in the width | 01:39 |
| rev | hub: no, i use the PDA functions of a PDA, but i just don't use them extensively. nor do i sync them. currently, i use my phone for PIM stuff, but the tools on the 770 i have installed are fine too | 01:40 |
| myren | the screen has long long pixels | 01:40 |
| myren | thats going to be frapping bizarree | 01:40 |
| myren | to code for properly | 01:40 |
| dannym | Jaffa: no, have an URL? | 01:40 |
| Jaffa | dannym: http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/ and click on "Photos" | 01:40 |
| rev | hub: basically, i use PDAs as my computer... at various points in the last 10 years a PDA has been my primary computer (Newton 2x00, Sigmarion 3, Jornada 720, Zaurus C760) | 01:40 |
| hub | rev: how can I have a calendar and an agenda with the *default* software on the N770 :-) | 01:41 |
| myren | i wish the jouranda had survived past infancy | 01:41 |
| myren | that would've been a cool computer form factor | 01:41 |
| Jaffa | hub: why does it need to be default software? | 01:41 |
| hub | for computer I just have a thinkpad | 01:41 |
| hub | Jaffa: why shouldn't it be? | 01:41 |
| rev | hub: umm, there isn't *default* software ... but why not just install one of the PIM packages? | 01:41 |
| Jaffa | hub: cost/flexibility etc. | 01:41 |
| hub | rev: what do you think I did? | 01:41 |
| rev | hub: it takes all of 30 seconds | 01:41 |
| Jaffa | Now, I'm not saying the PIM suites we've got aren't perfect, but still. | 01:41 |
| rev | hub: i just don't follow the objection... | 01:41 |
| Aleksandyr | I would argue they're a far far cry from perfection. | 01:42 |
| Aleksandyr | I also have no use for a PIM. | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | dannym: This is *very* cool http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=884017118027634444&q=multi+touch | 01:42 |
| hub | rev: not when you have to restore ALL the package sources after flashing | 01:42 |
| rev | hub: i'm sure for hardcore PIM users the nokia 770's PIM tools aren't good enough, but for me, I rarely use a PIM | 01:42 |
| hub | PIM = address book + agenda | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: indeed, hopefully the iPhone will *really* get people thinking about how to get things looking and acting more intuitively/impressively. | 01:42 |
| hub | we have a mailer and an IM program, so address book is almost there | 01:42 |
| rev | Jaffa: the newton did that pretty well | 01:43 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm actually very unhappy with the state of IM on the 770. | 01:43 |
| Jaffa | rev: So I hear | 01:43 |
| rev | Jaffa: also, i've done some work with more intuitive gestures for touchscreen interaction using various PDAs, including the 770 | 01:43 |
| Jaffa | I liked the Psion stuff, but still - nowhere near as good as things *could* be. | 01:43 |
| Jaffa | rev: any links? | 01:43 |
| rev | Jaffa: there is a gesture system for the programming language I use, and i've implemented a bunch of gestures of various usefulness, some of which stolen right from the newton | 01:44 |
| *** dannym_ has joined #maemo | 01:45 | |
| rev | Jaffa: the wiki i had up is down now, i've yet to recreate it. but the gesture recog system itself is called Genie - http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~schaerli/smalltalk/genie/genieIntroduction.htm | 01:45 |
| myren | you know, watching the insane surge of activity in here, i have to wonder what other irc channels i've abandoned that have flooded back to life for whatever surve in time. | 01:45 |
| rev | Jaffa: though that is a technical page ... http://squeak.joyful.com/Genie this is a little better | 01:45 |
| myren | rev: fricking figues its by smalltalkers. ;) | 01:45 |
| Jaffa | rev: Smalltalk's great, but not exactly iPhone-like purty ;-) | 01:45 |
| rev | Jaffa: but my work is in *using* the Genie system, I didn't write Genie | 01:45 |
| rev | Jaffa: why not? it's just a matter of how you do it- just like on the iphone | 01:46 |
| Jaffa | rev: I suppose, I've just *never* seen anything in Smalltalk which didn't look like the original Xerox PARC environments | 01:46 |
| *** dannym_ has joined #maemo | 01:46 | |
| rev | Jaffa: yeah, smalltalk looks a lot different now. basically, it can look like anything. | 01:46 |
| rev | for example | 01:46 |
| rev | Jaffa: this is what my squeak image looked like a few years ago - http://www.d.umn.edu/~areichow/squeak/sq-w-theme.jpg | 01:47 |
| rev | Jaffa: i could take a screenshot again, but it looks nicer now, antialiased fonts for one | 01:47 |
| Jaffa | Ah, good :) | 01:47 |
| rev | Jaffa: see the screenshots here: http://www.d.umn.edu/~areichow/squeak/dynapad/ | 01:47 |
| rev | Jaffa: those are old screenshots of a couple of teh PIM apps I wrote for Squeak ... my cross-platform (including Linux and the 770) PDA operating environment written in Squeak is called Dynapad. | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | Ah yeah, I remember reading about it before. Sounds cool. | 01:48 |
| rev | Jaffa: another old app i wrote, a benchmarking suite: http://www.d.umn.edu/~areichow/squeak/bencher.jpg | 01:48 |
| rev | Jaffa: my dev environment in squeak now: http://www.d.umn.edu/~areichow/squeak/ajr34-9jan07.png | 01:50 |
| rev | Jaffa: though that's not what it looks like on my 770, that's just my dev image | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. | 01:50 |
| rev | you can just use any ol' IceWM theme | 01:51 |
| rev | i used to use squeak basically as my OS | 01:51 |
| rev | i'm starting to again, actually ... the only thing i could never get *inside* squeak itself was a real web browser | 01:52 |
| rev | but i have that problem now- i can x11 firefox to display into squeak | 01:52 |
| rev | i just want to implement some ion-like tile window management into squeak before i switch back to squeak as my GUI | 01:52 |
| rev | it might be sacrelige, but if and when i get an iphone i'll be running squeak on it as well :D | 01:53 |
| c0ffee | next application to m-d | 01:56 |
| *** benzea has quit IRC | 01:56 | |
| Aleksandyr | now that I volunteered to get cups working, it strikes me that I don't have a single working printer in the house and haven't for three years :D | 01:57 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: good grief | 01:57 |
| *** Paavo has quit IRC | 01:58 | |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, can you make java applets work on the n800 instead? Now that you are not working on cups? :) | 01:58 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: I'm still going to get CUPS working, I merely have to fix a printer. | 01:59 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: I have MULTIPLE semi-working printers :D | 01:59 |
| Aleksandyr | IAS I'm not going to write anything for the N800. I'll port what I've done if it's not too hard, but not owning an N800 means I'd rather focus on making the apps I use on my 770 better ;) | 02:00 |
| *** dannym has quit IRC | 02:01 | |
| *** dannym_ is now known as dannym | 02:01 | |
| * konttori tries to get some sleep | 02:02 | |
| c0ffee | good plan | 02:02 |
| c0ffee | me too | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | ditto | 02:02 |
| daniels | aha! finally found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc | 02:03 |
| dannym | Jaffa: since my flash is broken, I watched http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/multitouchreel.mpg , but I think I get what you mean | 02:03 |
| hub | daniels: can't view that on my 770 | 02:03 |
| daniels | it's not quite multitouch as i remember, but still incredible :) | 02:03 |
| daniels | hub: c'est la vie | 02:03 |
| hub | c'est flash | 02:03 |
| hub | flash ca pue | 02:04 |
| hub | (sorry for the french) | 02:04 |
| dannym | Jaffa: it's kinda like those multi-mouse setups with gimp | 02:04 |
| Jaffa | daniels: very cool | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | quick question: anyone know how to get touchscreen pressure data in Python? | 02:04 |
| Jaffa | hub: use VidConvert: http://bleb.org/cgi-bin/vidconvert/status.cgi?key=raitoh | 02:05 |
| *** moo_mou has joined #maemo | 02:05 | |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: there's no way to do it for os2006, but for os2007, you can use the gtk extension events stuff | 02:05 |
| Jaffa | dannym: yeah, that's it. | 02:06 |
| lle | daniels: sure you can get it | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | ehrm | 02:06 |
| lle | daniels: even on 2006 | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | you can get it from /dev/event | 02:06 |
| lle | yup | 02:06 |
| daniels | lle: oh, you wrote python bindings for xsp? | 02:06 |
| c0ffee | i did that once | 02:06 |
| daniels | christ man, please don't be recommending that to people | 02:06 |
| lle | x) | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | hu? | 02:07 |
| lle | people have the right to know! | 02:07 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: that was the absolute worst possible answer you could have given me, even if it is true ;) | 02:07 |
| Aleksandyr | lle: links? | 02:07 |
| daniels | lle: that is a horror show, dude! | 02:07 |
| Aleksandyr | all I can find is a C example, which I could adapt, but it would take longer :D | 02:07 |
| lle | Aleksandyr: for what? python bindings? they don't exist! | 02:07 |
| daniels | and it'll end in a world of pain on n800, since we filter the ts events quite heavily in the x server | 02:08 |
| daniels | so you'll end up with a rather jittery stream | 02:08 |
| daniels | and lots of inaccurate presses | 02:08 |
| c0ffee | the pressure data on the 770 was far from usable | 02:08 |
| Aleksandyr | lle: a pythonic method of doing it, I eant | 02:08 |
| Aleksandyr | lle: I misread you earlier. No worries, you've given me the ammo I need | 02:08 |
| lle | Aleksandyr: I don't do python | 02:08 |
| Aleksandyr | lle: see previous statement :D thanks. | 02:08 |
| daniels | c0ffee: in bora, it just comes to you with gtk extension events, which are enabled by default if you have -51 instead of -47 | 02:08 |
| lle | Aleksandyr: ok :) | 02:09 |
| daniels | c0ffee: so you just do event.pressure, and bam, it's there | 02:09 |
| Jaffa | daniels: how discrete is it? | 02:09 |
| c0ffee | http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=evtest.*vojtech | 02:09 |
| c0ffee | that's a nice proggie for debugging evdev | 02:09 |
| c0ffee | compiles w/o probs in scratchbox | 02:09 |
| lle | daniels: I find your lack of faith in people's ability to use raw event data distressing | 02:10 |
| c0ffee | daniels, i didn't do much with 2.x since I had my shoulder operated, married, changed job etc last year | 02:10 |
| daniels | lle: dude, do you have any idea how awful the events are in n800? | 02:10 |
| c0ffee | daniels, my maemo knowledge is a bit archaic :) | 02:10 |
| daniels | lle: we always keep a four-sample queue, and throw away any set of four samples that move less than 4px in both directions, since it's so jittery | 02:11 |
| lle | daniels: I heard there were some issues, didn't know it's quite so bad | 02:11 |
| daniels | lle: we throw away the first 3 or so thumb events, since they're going to a) include a pen event, and b) be wildly inaccurate (before this, pressing y on the finger keyboard would press backspace quite reliably) | 02:11 |
| daniels | lle: and then you get a pen event when you're lifting your thumb up as well | 02:11 |
| daniels | lle: yeah, it's pretty horrible | 02:11 |
| daniels | lle: bet you're glad you got rid of x ;) | 02:11 |
| lle | daniels: haha, well... I don't miss it too often ;D | 02:12 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm attempting a program that's been requested two or three times, and will rely on subtle events, so yeah, this still sounds ok ;) | 02:12 |
| *** attetl has quit IRC | 02:12 | |
| lle | daniels: but that touchscreen thing sounds sad, it was not trivial for 770 either, but after a lot of different strategies I found something that wasn't too far from being minimally useful | 02:13 |
| *** Imrahil has quit IRC | 02:13 | |
| daniels | lle: yeah, this one works, it's just pretty nasty | 02:14 |
| lle | daniels: I noticed while using the sketch that it was (IMHO) not quite as responsive as it used to... or maybe I just don't remember how bad it was ;) | 02:14 |
| daniels | lle: yeah, it lags a bit, eh | 02:15 |
| Aleksandyr | c0ffee: I seem to lack a /dev/event... | 02:15 |
| daniels | lle: unfortunately the alternative was having web pages spasm uncontrollably if you held the stylus down on a scrollbar | 02:15 |
| daniels | Aleksandyr: /dev/input/event*, usually event2 | 02:15 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: ah. Thanks! | 02:16 |
| c0ffee | so, but now i'm really off :) | 02:16 |
| myren | i swear i remember you from an old guild on efnet | 02:18 |
| myren | but there may and probably are other c0ffees | 02:18 |
| myren | none the less, makes me smile. :) | 02:19 |
| daniels | /last youtube | 02:20 |
| daniels | guh | 02:20 |
| myren | youtube channel? bleh | 02:20 |
| *** tenshiKur0 has joined #maemo | 02:20 | |
| lle | daniels: fucking aye this freenode policy with non-registered users | 02:23 |
| daniels | lle: you don't say. freenode ftl. | 02:23 |
| Aleksandyr | man, your /last youtube must be much more entertaining than mine | 02:23 |
| lle | and I'm even registered, just no idea about the password | 02:24 |
| lle | and too lazy to do anything about it, other than bitch | 02:24 |
| dannym | Jaffa: http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/videos/mpx_demo.mpg the MPX X server seems to already support multiple independent pointing devices, and I don't see much else that's required to have that stuff | 02:24 |
| daniels | lle: start oftc #maemo | 02:25 |
| dannym | Jaffa: and MPX has been merged into main X | 02:25 |
| daniels | dannym: all that's left is to merge it | 02:25 |
| daniels | dannym: er, not yet, it's still on a branch | 02:25 |
| dannym | oh? really? | 02:25 |
| daniels | dannym: there's a few cleanups left to do, and it'll likely be done as part of xinput 2, rather than a separate extension | 02:25 |
| daniels | yeah | 02:25 |
| daniels | it's pretty close though, i'm quite happy with it as it stands now except for a few minor niggles | 02:25 |
| Jaffa | dannym: very cool. I imagine the h/w support for a touchscreen is a bit tricky, though | 02:25 |
| daniels | Jaffa: indeed | 02:26 |
| Jaffa | Something the SOC OMAPs won't do any time soon | 02:26 |
| daniels | well, the touchscreen is separate from the omap | 02:27 |
| Jaffa | Is it? I thought the ts controller was on the chip. | 02:28 |
| Jaffa | Interesting. | 02:28 |
| daniels | nope, it's separate (tsc2301 on the n800) | 02:28 |
| lle | separate but of the same quality | 02:30 |
| lle | -> bedtime | 02:30 |
| Aleksandyr | 'night | 02:30 |
| dannym | ah, sleep... good idea :) | 02:31 |
| dannym | good night :) | 02:31 |
| *** hub has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| Aleksandyr | note to self: hooking evtest up to a Razer running at 2000dpi and 1000hz polling is like attaching a firehose to your xterm. | 02:32 |
| *** dannym has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| * Jaffa *really* must go to bed. | 02:33 | |
| Jaffa | Right. Firefox is closed, there are no more temptations. | 02:33 |
| daniels | editor's still open here | 02:33 |
| *** tenshiKur0 has quit IRC | 02:38 | |
| *** Aleksandyr is now known as Aleksandyr|afk | 02:39 | |
| *** lele has quit IRC | 02:43 | |
| *** trenka has quit IRC | 02:43 | |
| *** peepants has quit IRC | 03:02 | |
| *** Paavo has joined #maemo | 03:03 | |
| *** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk | 03:05 | |
| *** rev has quit IRC | 03:06 | |
| *** ferenc has joined #maemo | 03:08 | |
| *** ferenc has left #maemo | 03:14 | |
| *** florian_kc has quit IRC | 03:14 | |
| *** alp has joined #maemo | 03:15 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 03:15 | |
| *** user_ has joined #maemo | 03:20 | |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 03:21 | |
| *** Super_King has joined #maemo | 03:24 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 03:24 | |
| *** |tbb| has quit IRC | 03:28 | |
| *** koen has joined #maemo | 03:28 | |
| *** danguy has quit IRC | 03:31 | |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 03:36 | |
| *** Paavo has quit IRC | 03:54 | |
| *** hub has joined #maemo | 03:56 | |
| *** dieguito-zzz has joined #maemo | 03:57 | |
| *** ntrs has quit IRC | 04:00 | |
| *** tko has quit IRC | 04:05 | |
| *** viviji1 has joined #maemo | 04:08 | |
| gpd | just trying out my thumb board -- can't seem to figure out how to change the suggested word to a different one? | 04:08 |
| gpd | or do you just keep tapping until you can tap on the word that you want? | 04:09 |
| *** tko has joined #maemo | 04:10 | |
| gpd | in the small keyboard it gives you several word options - but the large one it seems to stick with one choice - i have tried most keys and buttons | 04:10 |
| * gpd installs gizmo project | 04:15 | |
| *** Lateralus has quit IRC | 04:20 | |
| *** bstock has joined #maemo | 04:28 | |
| gpd | just made my first phone call on a N800 using gizmo -- very cool indeed -- screw those apple guys - no monthy fee -- free call! | 04:32 |
| * pahartik likes SIP | 04:33 | |
| rabelais | wait...does the n800 have the telepathy-sip framework in it? I thought that wasn't done yet | 04:35 |
| *** Paavo has joined #maemo | 04:35 | |
| pahartik | gpd: Gizmo (application) is tied up to that single SIP registrar though... that is not so nice | 04:36 |
| gpd | pahartik: what would you suggest instead? | 04:37 |
| rabelais | how about being able to tie into any SIP server....like my own voip network for instance... | 04:39 |
| jtokash2 | has there really been no treo yet with wifi? | 04:41 |
| jtokash2 | That's crazy | 04:41 |
| *** jtokash2 is now known as jtokash | 04:41 | |
| pahartik | gpd: I do not know of "untied" SIP applications that currently work on Maemo... | 04:42 |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 04:44 | |
| myren | what the fuck is wrong with denver | 04:50 |
| myren | we never get any hardware god damn it | 04:50 |
| myren | i want a bloody fucking N800 | 04:50 |
| myren | this stupid city got four demo units, one for each compusa, and every single one of them has already been stolen | 04:51 |
| daniels | haha | 04:51 |
| daniels | sorry, but that is somewhat comic | 04:51 |
| pahartik | gpd: I did manage to establish SIP voice call between "sofsip_cli" on Maemo and "twinkle" on Debian... that is not real solution, but at least I know now where microphone is located | 04:51 |
| myren | wait i didnt make myself clear | 04:51 |
| myren | this city got four units in total | 04:51 |
| myren | TOTAL | 04:51 |
| myren | and every single one was allocated as a demo unit | 04:51 |
| myren | AND every single one got stolen | 04:52 |
| pahartik | myren: "city where stolen items generally come from" | 04:53 |
| *** Super_King has quit IRC | 04:58 | |
| Milhouse | Hey, at least the N800 is popular with thieves! | 04:59 |
| Milhouse | Didn't any of the thieves throw it back as they legged it out of the shop shouting "WTF dude? It hasn't got a hard case!" | 05:00 |
| Milhouse | The standard of vilians in Denver has reached a new low. | 05:00 |
| *** viviji1 has quit IRC | 05:05 | |
| user_ | Anyone get maemo mapper running on n800 by chance ? :) | 05:22 |
| *** user_ is now known as framerte|N800 | 05:23 | |
| *** framerte|N800 is now known as framerate|n800 | 05:23 | |
| dieguito-zzz | myren: that's funny... I also want a bloody n800, let's share our pain | 05:28 |
| gpd | I have an N800 - feel free to hate me :) | 05:28 |
| gpd | or live vicariously through me... your choice | 05:29 |
| framerate|n800 | >·> | 05:31 |
| dieguito-zzz | framerate|n800: I assume you too | 05:32 |
| dieguito-zzz | :( | 05:32 |
| framerate|n800 | Got mine sunday | 05:32 |
| dieguito-zzz | via developer program? | 05:33 |
| framerate|n800 | On xchat on it now | 05:33 |
| framerate|n800 | Nope | 05:33 |
| framerate|n800 | Compusa | 05:33 |
| * gpd wonders why the thumb pad is flashing blue whilst in normal mode | 05:33 | |
| *** jaebird has quit IRC | 05:33 | |
| * framerate|n800 doesnt understand either | 05:34 | |
| *** Lateralus has joined #maemo | 05:34 | |
| *** jaebird has joined #maemo | 05:35 | |
| dieguito-zzz | hah! you'll loose battery power! | 05:35 |
| dieguito-zzz | muahaha! | 05:35 |
| gpd | framerate|n800: have you taken your screen protector off yet ;) | 05:35 |
| gpd | oh - maybe 'cos i set 'show led lights' in display | 05:36 |
| alp | so, i packaged up my webkit gdk port, http://www.ndesk.org/tmp/WebKit-Gdk-Nokia770.jpg -- i could do with a tester if anyone has the non-devel firmware around and some cycles to burn, /msg me | 05:36 |
| hub | alp: can it run on a plain linux? | 05:36 |
| alp | hub: sure, but i guess there's not much point. i'm working on the port so mono gtk# programs that embed mozilla can work properly on the 770 | 05:37 |
| framerate|n800 | Man I really want maemo mapper :( | 05:37 |
| gpd | framerate|n800: what progress since last night? | 05:38 |
| gpd | did you install gizmoproject? | 05:38 |
| framerate|n800 | Nope, may wait for skype | 05:38 |
| * framerate|n800 hides | 05:38 | |
| gpd | did you try mediastreamer? | 05:39 |
| framerate|n800 | Negative. Actually my os got screwed with corrupt sd card | 05:40 |
| framerate|n800 | Had to wipe | 05:40 |
| hub | alp: btw the point of having it run on plain linux is to ditch mozilla everywhere you can | 05:40 |
| alp | hub: oh, i actually got the idea of doing webkit/mono integration from a blog of yours | 05:41 |
| hub | lol | 05:42 |
| hub | ok | 05:42 |
| hub | using it on nokia is the other idea with that :-) | 05:42 |
| *** pvanhoof has quit IRC | 05:45 | |
| alp | the package also includes a build of cairo git head with less-float enabled, though all shared objects are kept in a private prefix for sanity | 05:47 |
| alp | it does work rather well, quite snappy | 05:47 |
| *** framerate|n800 has quit IRC | 05:53 | |
| gpd | i see simplecenter.com is only server mentioned for use with n800 mediastreamer - do we know if gmediaserver on linux will work? | 06:04 |
| gpd | well i installed gmediaserver on ubuntu and it looks like it serves /usr/share/sounds - started it - but no sign on n800 | 06:06 |
| dieguito-zzz | gpd: I thought that DAAP shares work out of the box in the nokia things | 06:06 |
| gpd | daap shares like? | 06:06 |
| dieguito-zzz | rhythmbox? banshee? | 06:07 |
| dieguito-zzz | at least I understood that time ago | 06:07 |
| * gpd tries | 06:07 | |
| dieguito-zzz | rhythmbox > edit > prefs > share | 06:07 |
| gpd | no sign of it -- am i doing this right -- i have a desktop running ubuntu that is plugged into the same router that is providing wifi to the n800 - ie same subnet. | 06:09 |
| gpd | the mediastreamer says 'searching for new devices' -- which to me implies funky hardware stuff | 06:09 |
| gpd | but the simplecenter counters that thought | 06:10 |
| gpd | Unable to notify network of music sharing: The avahi MDNS service is not running <<-- ok | 06:10 |
| * gpd installs avahi-daemon | 06:10 | |
| gpd | nope - still errors - must be the ndns stuff | 06:12 |
| *** NickDe has joined #maemo | 06:13 | |
| NickDe | very nice | 06:14 |
| NickDe | just had my day at ces at the nokia tent | 06:14 |
| gpd | was there a frenzy of interest? | 06:15 |
| NickDe | talked to the project manager a developer etc.. very cool stuff on the way .. I like the PC video conference client | 06:15 |
| NickDe | gpd: oh dude it was great | 06:15 |
| gpd | [or was the apple stealing the show] | 06:15 |
| NickDe | every nokia person had an n800. they were giving demos etc. | 06:15 |
| NickDe | Apple's offering is iffy.. 500 bucks + 2 year lock in with cingular... I dont think so | 06:15 |
| NickDe | lower res screen | 06:15 |
| NickDe | phew | 06:15 |
| gpd | nevermind that -- carrying a giant thing around wehn you only want a phone? forgetaboutit | 06:15 |
| NickDe | Nokia and IPhone are 2 different devices | 06:16 |
| dieguito-zzz | that's right | 06:16 |
| NickDe | and the iphone you cant even install/removce software | 06:16 |
| NickDe | its total lock in/ lock out | 06:16 |
| dieguito-zzz | NickDe: really? that sucks | 06:16 |
| NickDe | but of course every mac user will buy one.. fine.. | 06:16 |
| gpd | meanwhile - i am stuck trying to install random avahi stuff to get mediaserver to work ;) | 06:17 |
| dieguito-zzz | gpd: install every avahi* package | 06:17 |
| dieguito-zzz | and of course start them | 06:17 |
| NickDe | dieguito-zzz: at internettablettalk.com I see a lot of iphone threads.. personally I dont follow the corporate sheep like Apple.. I have no loyalty to any company.. if Nokia screwed up the n800 I'd go somewhere else.. but Apple puts a show and delivers an expensive dumb little toy that all their sheep will buy... | 06:17 |
| dieguito-zzz | avahi-browser might prove itself useful | 06:17 |
| gpd | ach avahi-browser <-- nothing | 06:18 |
| dieguito-zzz | avahi-utils is the package | 06:18 |
| NickDe | Nokia is doing great..the N800 is great. I watched 2 movies on it on my 5 hour flight to vegas.. great stuff | 06:18 |
| dieguito-zzz | NickDe: please stop that or I will have to kill you and get your n800 | 06:19 |
| dieguito-zzz | </love> | 06:19 |
| dieguito-zzz | it's published as "iTunes Audio Access" or something like that | 06:19 |
| *** trenka has joined #maemo | 06:19 | |
| *** bjv has joined #maemo | 06:20 | |
| NickDe | dieguito-zzz: :) | 06:22 |
| NickDe | so I have 2 more full days of CES.. should be fun. | 06:23 |
| dieguito-zzz | you bet | 06:23 |
| Milhouse | I heard they were giving out free N800s at CES | 06:24 |
| Milhouse | Nick - _please_ see if you can find out if the N95 GPS can be used with the N800 (or any other device) over BT, thanks! :) | 06:25 |
| bjv | hm, the left bar is blank, the text appears for the keyboard, but they key texture is not there.. | 06:37 |
| bjv | switching themes just now, still all white | 06:38 |
| bjv | anyone ever experienced that? | 06:39 |
| bjv | already reset the thing, a minute ago. | 06:39 |
| bstock | the only thing i've seen is when installing an app or changing themes | 06:40 |
| bstock | sometimes my desktop goes white | 06:40 |
| bstock | but a reset usually fixes it | 06:40 |
| bjv | it's the gui elements that are just blank white fields, scrollbars, menus, | 06:40 |
| bjv | desktop and the top task bar are fine, all text is there. :\ | 06:41 |
| bjv | oh, duh it's all on flash | 06:43 |
| bjv | of course there arent going to be any logs. :\ | 06:43 |
| bstock | if you make a directory called core-dumps on the mem card it will record the core dumps when an application crashed to that directory | 06:43 |
| bstock | that may help | 06:44 |
| Milhouse | Anyone tried an SDHC card with the N800 yet? | 06:44 |
| bstock | if you send me $399, I'll be happy to go out, purchase one, buy MY OWN SD card and try it out for ya | 06:46 |
| Milhouse | Nice try :) | 06:48 |
| Milhouse | Trying to build up a list of working 4GB+ cards on ITT - nobody has posted details for an SDHC card yet, got confirmation of two working SD 4GB cards | 06:49 |
| bstock | is 4gb the largest availabe nowadays? | 06:49 |
| Milhouse | Pretty much | 06:49 |
| * bjv almost bought a 1gb mmc mobile last week | 06:49 | |
| Milhouse | 8GB may be available in very limited quantities | 06:49 |
| Milhouse | 4GB is available as both SD and SDHC | 06:50 |
| bjv | how much does 4 gigs in the full sized cost? | 06:50 |
| bstock | last time i went shopping for one was for my M3 player for my DS.. 1gb was plenty large enough for what i needed | 06:50 |
| Milhouse | 4GB SD definately seems to work, not sure about 4GB SDHC | 06:50 |
| Milhouse | 4GB is about £65 in UK | 06:50 |
| Milhouse | Probably much less in the US | 06:50 |
| Milhouse | 1GB fills way too quick :) | 06:51 |
| bstock | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820208087 | 06:51 |
| bstock | not so quick when the only thing you put on it is nintendo DS roms.. most ~16-32MB | 06:51 |
| Milhouse | I should get them shipped over - $54 is about £30, half the UK price :( | 06:52 |
| bstock | do you know if newegg ships to uk? | 06:52 |
| Milhouse | could ask a friend to pop several into an envelope :) | 06:52 |
| bstock | here in the US newegg is the cheapest site | 06:53 |
| Milhouse | i'd get a friend in the US to buy them and send them to the UK in an envelope! | 06:53 |
| bstock | yeah, prob be cheaper that way even if newegg would ship it to ya | 06:53 |
| Milhouse | if newegg shipped it, it would be stopped by customs | 06:54 |
| Milhouse | and i'd have to pay import tag @ 17.5% | 06:54 |
| Milhouse | tag==tax | 06:54 |
| bstock | wow that sucks.. i don't ship international much. | 06:55 |
| bstock | company i work for have a plant in china and its a bitch to ship there | 06:55 |
| Milhouse | i used to buy the occasional game or console from lik sang (rip) | 06:55 |
| bstock | especially computer equipment, they need serial numbers of everything we're sending.. even custom-built servers, that don't have serial numbers so we have to make some up | 06:56 |
| Milhouse | 50/50 chance whether I got charged import tax or not | 06:56 |
| Milhouse | i worked for an investment bank once, we had to ship a SUN server to Singapore and customs stopped it, inspected it and pulled out a processor with it's massive heatsink still attached before sending it on it's way. Insides were a bit of a mess when it arrived having had the CPU + heatsink bouncing around inside while it traversed the globe. Bastards wouldn't accept responsibility either. | 06:58 |
| bstock | man what a bitch. that must have been fun | 06:58 |
| Milhouse | We had to send it back from Singapore to London (it failed to work, funnily enough) - I had the CPU+heatsink on my desk for a couple of years. | 06:58 |
| Milhouse | At the time, the CPU+heatsink alone was worth about $3,000! | 06:59 |
| Milhouse | Happy days... | 06:59 |
| shapr | bstock: suck | 06:59 |
| bstock | suck? | 07:00 |
| shapr | that you have to make up serial numbers. | 07:00 |
| bstock | heh yeah | 07:00 |
| bstock | actually, a lot of times we just use the serial numbers from the motherboard in the server | 07:00 |
| shapr | I've had to deal with that sort of admin bullshit before, it's no fun. | 07:00 |
| shapr | hm, sensible. | 07:00 |
| bmidgley | that's good to know not all 4gb are hd | 07:00 |
| bmidgley | hc | 07:00 |
| Milhouse | If anyone has any 4GB+ SD[HC] card details please post here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3895 | 07:01 |
| bmidgley | it's probably not easy to tell the difference when shopping online eh? | 07:01 |
| Milhouse | non-working cards would be useful to know too | 07:01 |
| shapr | They should say SDHC or SD2.0, since they're the same thing. | 07:01 |
| bstock | so i was at Borders Books the other day and saw a demo of this thing http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/assets/itpd/reader/ | 07:03 |
| bstock | it looked pretty cool, uses epaper so very little power and actually looks like paper.. unfortunatly it's DRM'd to hell | 07:03 |
| bstock | 'choose from thousands of titles'.. that you have to pay $10 a pop from the sony store. man i hate sony | 07:04 |
| shapr | Sony hates you too, don't worry ;-) | 07:04 |
| shapr | Otherwise they wouldn't treat their customers like criminals, yeah? | 07:04 |
| Milhouse | Strange how they don't quote a resolution for the screen | 07:04 |
| bstock | people dumb enough to buy it don't care about the resolution i would guess | 07:05 |
| bstock | but it did look pretty cool. i haven't seen an epaper texture that size before | 07:05 |
| Milhouse | bstock: Sorry, that was just me being geeky :) | 07:05 |
| bstock | all they have to do is support standard pdf's... man i hate sony | 07:06 |
| Milhouse | I'm not really a fan of reading electronic books - prefer the old fashioned paper kind | 07:06 |
| shapr | I used to like PDFs, then I bought one with the latest and greatest ebook Digital *Restrictions* Management. | 07:07 |
| bstock | me too.. that's why i thought that it was cool. it looks like a book | 07:07 |
| Milhouse | But you'd really have to be "in to" ebooks to justify the expense of a single-purpose device... otherwise it would make more sense to buy something like the N800 and use FBReader occasionally | 07:08 |
| bstock | but i don't want to re-buy my books for more then i probably paid for to begin with. plus i could only pick from 'thousands' of titles. prob only the top *selling* books | 07:08 |
| *** ntrs has joined #maemo | 07:08 | |
| shapr | I've been searching for this one book for two years, and I finally found it in PDF format on ebooks.com | 07:08 |
| bstock | yeah i don't plan on buying it. i would really consider it if it support standard files because of the epaper format | 07:08 |
| shapr | So I paid my $32 | 07:08 |
| bstock | wow that's pricey | 07:08 |
| shapr | And then I couldn't open it on Linux, because only Acrobat Reader on Windows handles the latest restrictions standards. | 07:09 |
| shapr | And the PDF did not allow printing, and only copying of ten pages per day. | 07:09 |
| bstock | lol man | 07:09 |
| shapr | So I asked them to either give me an unrestricted copy, or give me my money back. | 07:09 |
| shapr | I got my money back. | 07:10 |
| bstock | i had a pdf un-drm'r at one point. don't know if it'd work for the newer stuff | 07:10 |
| Milhouse | ebooks are probably at the same state of evolution as music was 3 years ago - ebooks need someone like Apple to popularise cheap online downloads | 07:10 |
| shapr | bstock: I wouldn't un-restrict it if that weren't legal, I'm picky like that. | 07:10 |
| Milhouse | 3 years ago - make that 4 or even 5 years ago | 07:10 |
| shapr | Lucky for me, I found a hardcopy for $120 in Arizona. | 07:10 |
| shapr | Which is much much better than the $600 copy in the Netherlands. | 07:11 |
| bstock | shapr: i figure if i paid for it when why not.. i'm not planning on uploading it anywhere | 07:11 |
| bjv | all this mess is still white | 07:11 |
| bjv | the themes are still on the flash, the images them self | 07:11 |
| shapr | bstock: Yeah, but the people who sold you the PDF wouldn't agree with that interpretation. | 07:11 |
| bjv | re flash? :( | 07:11 |
| bstock | yeah. in general i don't buy it if it's drm'd | 07:11 |
| shapr | bstock: And I'm trying to stick with the spirit of the law, and just not fun stupid people. | 07:12 |
| shapr | fund* | 07:12 |
| bstock | lol i can just imagine what Vista is gonna have in store for everyone | 07:12 |
| Milhouse | if you'd bought the ebook and found you couldn't read it due to DRM restrictions I'd have said that removing the DRM for your *own personal* use would be totally OK in my, er, books. | 07:13 |
| bmidgley | did anyone here order an n800 direct from nokia? | 07:13 |
| Milhouse | yep | 07:13 |
| Milhouse | Ordered one for the UK on Sunday evening, should arrive Wednesday (today!) | 07:14 |
| bmidgley | nice | 07:14 |
| *** Fenix-Dark has joined #maemo | 07:15 | |
| bstock | is the UK ahead or behind the US? | 07:15 |
| bstock | doh, must be ahead | 07:15 |
| bmidgley | haven't heard anyone getting discount codes yet | 07:15 |
| Fenix-Dark | hi | 07:15 |
| *** rkaway3 has joined #maemo | 07:15 | |
| Milhouse | Ahead EST + 5 | 07:15 |
| Fenix-Dark | you guys know if the 880 would be fast enough to play your average tv show xvid 480p .avi rips at native frame rate? | 07:15 |
| Milhouse | xvid not supported by default. mplayer may support it though | 07:16 |
| Fenix-Dark | Milhouse, MPlayer does support it, i've got the 770 and it struggles to get in the double digits | 07:16 |
| Fenix-Dark | when playing back xvid 480p res files | 07:16 |
| Milhouse | the N800 may be better - Serge has released a test build for the N800 with hardware fp enabled | 07:17 |
| Milhouse | early days yet though for the N800 | 07:17 |
| Fenix-Dark | indeed | 07:17 |
| Fenix-Dark | if it can play them at the 24 or w/e fps, i'll be very interested and tempted to move to an 880 | 07:17 |
| bjv | N800 runs on a single 320mhz core? | 07:18 |
| bjv | rather then 2x 220mhz? | 07:18 |
| Milhouse | 330Mhz ARM+DSP | 07:19 |
| Milhouse | ARM6 rather than ARM5 so architectural improvements as well as just speed | 07:19 |
| bstock | wait 770 is dual core? | 07:20 |
| Milhouse | er, think that should be ARM11 rather than ARM9 | 07:20 |
| Milhouse | yes | 07:20 |
| Milhouse | 770 is also ARM+DSP | 07:20 |
| bstock | damn that's news to me | 07:20 |
| Milhouse | Keep it up, I might get a discount code at this rate :) | 07:21 |
| bstock | hehe | 07:21 |
| *** adoyle has quit IRC | 07:21 | |
| bstock | anyone know if there is or plans for a hard case for the 800 | 07:30 |
| Milhouse | There is a case on the Nokia site but no links to buy it | 07:31 |
| *** rkaway2 has quit IRC | 07:31 | |
| bstock | do you happen to have a link to said case? | 07:31 |
| Milhouse | hang on | 07:31 |
| *** greentux_alt has joined #maemo | 07:32 | |
| bstock | thx, i'm not finding it | 07:32 |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo | 07:33 | |
| bstock | i see Availableseparately: Wallet and case for N800 | 07:33 |
| Milhouse | Try this: http://www.europe.nokia.com/accessorieslink?s=N800Case | 07:34 |
| Milhouse | Looks like it will protect the screen | 07:35 |
| bstock | nice | 07:35 |
| bstock | i wonder when it'll be available | 07:35 |
| Milhouse | Just a shame Nokia don't want to sell it to you | 07:35 |
| bmidgley | it might be harder to "pocket" the n800 with that lump where the camera and pen are | 07:35 |
| Milhouse | No idea, I guess they'll get their act together once CES has finished and they're all back at work | 07:36 |
| bstock | heh. yeah i would feel uncomfortable carrying that screen in the same pocket as my keys | 07:36 |
| Milhouse | The N800 is 13/18mm thick, I'll let you know tomorrow how 18mm feels :) | 07:36 |
| Milhouse | oh yeah, keys + screen not a good combination | 07:37 |
| bstock | i was playing with it at CompUSA today, it doesn't seem too much larger than the 770 | 07:37 |
| Milhouse | or keys + phone | 07:37 |
| Milhouse | I suspect it's not going to be much thicker than a 770+case | 07:37 |
| bstock | it didn't seem like it. we compared them at the store and it was pretty close | 07:37 |
| gpd | i am intrigued how that n800 case would attach - no obvious holes and the stand would be messed up if covers the back | 07:38 |
| Milhouse | replacement battery cover? | 07:38 |
| gpd | yes - undoubtedly | 07:39 |
| *** greentux has quit IRC | 07:39 | |
| gpd | meanwhile - back to avahi-browse... | 07:39 |
| Milhouse | given the shape of the N800, I wonder if there is scope for a fatter/higher capacity batter with new cover that smooths out the rear of the device? | 07:39 |
| gpd | dieguito-zzz: are you really zzz ? | 07:40 |
| dieguito-zzz | gpd: let me check... mmm... no | 07:40 |
| bstock | Milhouse: now that would be cool.. though it would make it kind of beastly | 07:41 |
| gpd | i have installed avahi-browse and can see some things with -a option | 07:41 |
| Milhouse | i dunno, you can get double capacity after market batteries for ipaqs and they're not significantly larget - a few mms more maybe | 07:41 |
| Milhouse | mm's | 07:41 |
| bstock | yeah but if it filled in the gap to make it straight down from the widest portion of the back.. that would be pretty thick | 07:43 |
| bstock | what you trying to do with avahi-browse? | 07:43 |
| Milhouse | maybe - i haven't held a device yet so can only guess from the pictures | 07:43 |
| gpd | bstock: i am trying to get rhythmbox to share to n800 mediastreamer | 07:43 |
| bstock | do you see any remote services with avahi-browse, or just local services? | 07:44 |
| gpd | just local | 07:45 |
| gpd | the n800 seems very fussy about connecting to my wifi after being off :( | 07:45 |
| bstock | things like ssh, printers.. that kind of stuff? | 07:45 |
| gpd | this has happened 3x now --- turn on - cant find network, tries again, tries to connect, says network error, then tries again, then succeeds | 07:46 |
| gpd | bstock: nothing | 07:46 |
| gpd | + vmnet8 IPv4 | 07:46 |
| gpd | 'that sort of stuff | 07:46 |
| gpd | of and ssh remote terminal | 07:46 |
| bstock | hmm | 07:49 |
| gpd | This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library. | 07:49 |
| gpd | 9931: arguments to dbus_pending_call_unref() were incorrect, assertion "pending != NULL" failed in file dbus-pending-call.c line 487. | 07:49 |
| gpd | ^ after restarting dbus | 07:49 |
| gpd | (rhythmbox:9931): Rhythmbox-WARNING **: Unable to notify network of music sharing: The avahi MDNS service is not running | 07:49 |
| bstock | heh um, yeah that's starting to get over my head | 07:50 |
| gpd | but i do /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start | 07:50 |
| bstock | you may have to start the service manually | 07:50 |
| gpd | using avahi-daemon ? | 07:50 |
| bstock | open a seperate term and run avahi-daemon as root | 07:50 |
| bstock | yeah | 07:51 |
| bstock | though | 07:51 |
| bstock | i don't think you can run avahi-browse without the daemon running | 07:51 |
| gpd | avahi-daemon -D ? | 07:51 |
| bstock | so the daemon must be running if you're browsing | 07:51 |
| bstock | i just run avahi-demon and it comes up | 07:51 |
| gpd | ok started... some stuff appears | 07:51 |
| bstock | um.. now try rhythmbox maybe..? | 07:52 |
| bstock | i dunno | 07:52 |
| bstock | i don't have much experience with avahi stuff | 07:52 |
| gpd | ok now sharing gives no errors in rhythmbox | 07:53 |
| gpd | but still 'searching for new devices' on n800 | 07:53 |
| bstock | from a separate term on desktop run avahi-browse -a to see if you can see rhythmbox's service | 07:53 |
| gpd | + vmnet8 IPv4 gpd iTunes Audio Access local | 07:54 |
| gpd | seems so | 07:54 |
| bstock | hmm that's good | 07:54 |
| bstock | you on ubuntu or other debian distro? | 07:54 |
| gpd | ubuntu edgy | 07:54 |
| bstock | + eth1 IPv4 bstock's Music iTunes Audio Access local | 07:55 |
| bstock | look liek that? | 07:55 |
| gpd | + eth0 IPv4 gpd iTunes Audio Access local | 07:55 |
| gpd | yes | 07:55 |
| gpd | ok - checking internet on tablet, restating mediastreamer | 07:56 |
| bstock | lemme install mediastreamer on 770 | 07:56 |
| gpd | nothing showing up still | 07:56 |
| bstock | bah | 07:56 |
| bstock | Failed to fetch http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/bora/user/m/mediastreamer/mediastreamer_1.0-8.2_armel.deb 404 Not Found | 07:57 |
| bstock | gay, hold on | 07:57 |
| gpd | hold on - bora on a 770? | 07:57 |
| bstock | yeah | 07:57 |
| bstock | i found a deb | 07:58 |
| bstock | just uploading it | 07:58 |
| * gpd still wonders where most of /var/log went | 07:58 | |
| gpd | i don't need to do anything funky on my wireless router do i? | 07:59 |
| bstock | i wouldn't think so | 08:00 |
| bstock | hmm, well it would help to add music to rhythmbox to test with | 08:00 |
| bstock | damnit, now i have to get mp3 support in rhythmbox working | 08:01 |
| gpd | HOLD THE PHONE! | 08:01 |
| bstock | got something? | 08:02 |
| gpd | just ran gmediaserver /home/gpd/Music -- and there it is on n800! | 08:02 |
| gpd | looks like your avahi stuff is a red herring | 08:02 |
| * gpd ducks | 08:02 | |
| bstock | but is it streaming yet? | 08:02 |
| gpd | hold on -- that folder is rather large -- let me try a smaller one | 08:03 |
| gpd | playing! | 08:04 |
| bstock | yay | 08:04 |
| * gpd does a little dance | 08:04 | |
| gpd | so what's the deal with the avahi stuff? | 08:05 |
| gpd | is that available on another player? | 08:05 |
| gpd | mediastreamer is UPnP | 08:05 |
| bstock | avahi is a system that discovers services on a lan | 08:06 |
| bstock | the daemon i think pushes the service out to other devices | 08:06 |
| gpd | but the iTunes sharing protocol - what players support that? | 08:06 |
| bstock | so when you bring up mediastreamer on the nokia, it looks for services using avahi | 08:07 |
| bstock | from what it looks like anyway | 08:07 |
| gpd | not sure about that -- i will stop avahi and see if gmediaserver still runs | 08:08 |
| gpd | yep - still running | 08:08 |
| bstock | hmm alright.. well whatever at least it's working right | 08:09 |
| gpd | yes - fantastic :) | 08:09 |
| gpd | just noticing weird screen flashing when in dimmed mode ... | 08:09 |
| gpd | odd | 08:09 |
| *** k-way is now known as keesj | 08:10 | |
| gpd | is anyone planning on setting up an ubuntuguide.org style site for tablets? | 08:11 |
| bstock | kind of like this? http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo | 08:12 |
| bstock | guess that is more dev centered | 08:13 |
| Milhouse | have to agree - what's wrong with the maemo.org Wiki? | 08:13 |
| Milhouse | doesn't mean someone can't create their own "user oriented" seciont | 08:13 |
| Milhouse | section | 08:13 |
| gpd | well -- none of my first 25 questions are on there | 08:13 |
| gpd | can we edit that page? | 08:13 |
| bstock | and the application catalog tells how to install most apps | 08:13 |
| Milhouse | i think so - they get defaced fairly regularly | 08:13 |
| gpd | but no mention of gmediaserver for example | 08:14 |
| gpd | or - simple things like changing user password won't break the system | 08:15 |
| gpd | i am happy to contribute - i just need to know the right place | 08:15 |
| *** dieguito-zzz is now known as dieguito | 08:16 | |
| Milhouse | I'd definately say the maemo wiki is the best place, someone more familiar with it's maintenance can probably advise a suitable section etc. | 08:16 |
| * gpd attempts to serve 100G of audio o.O | 08:18 | |
| * bstock is saddened by his meere 40GB | 08:18 | |
| gpd | sorry didn't mean to be a brag - just for sheer craziness of it | 08:19 |
| bstock | that's ok, my penis can compensate for it ;) | 08:20 |
| dieguito | lol | 08:20 |
| dieguito | I have like 5G | 08:21 |
| bstock | that won't even fill an ipod | 08:21 |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 08:21 | |
| bstock | unless you have a nano, those are for girls though | 08:21 |
| myren | where the fuck do i get a N800? | 08:22 |
| myren | :/ | 08:22 |
| bstock | compusa | 08:22 |
| bstock | or nokia.com | 08:22 |
| gpd | myren: install the sdk scratchbox and squint ;) | 08:22 |
| myren | compusa fucking sucks nut in denver | 08:22 |
| myren | they dont carry _anything_ | 08:22 |
| bstock | compusa sucks everywhere | 08:22 |
| myren | i had to go to three stores to find a fucking intel mobo | 08:23 |
| myren | WTF?! | 08:23 |
| bstock | but they DO have n800's, at least the one i went to today did | 08:23 |
| myren | i went to two stores today | 08:23 |
| myren | and both stores recieved a single N800 | 08:23 |
| myren | as a demo unit | 08:23 |
| myren | and both stores | 08:23 |
| bstock | that's your problem. don't buy anything at compusa you can get at newegg.com | 08:23 |
| myren | had their demo unit stolen | 08:23 |
| myren | i fucking shit you not. | 08:23 |
| myren | bstock: the newegg.com mobo i bought was DOA and i didnt feel like waiting two weeks for an exchange | 08:23 |
| bstock | that sucks | 08:24 |
| myren | mercifully compusa had a somewhat respectable gigabyte mobo. unfrotuantely it was $150. | 08:24 |
| myren | fuckers. | 08:24 |
| bstock | do they have microcenter or fry's warehouse around? just about anything is better than compusa | 08:24 |
| myren | there's a microcenter | 08:24 |
| bstock | even overnight shipping on a new product from newegg would be cheaper | 08:24 |
| myren | yeah now that you mention it. :/ | 08:24 |
| bstock | microcenter is good. actual decent prices | 08:24 |
| myren | i wasnt actually sure what was dead at the time | 08:24 |
| myren | i suspected the mobo | 08:25 |
| myren | the original plan was to test the gigabyte then return it | 08:25 |
| myren | but i am oh so lazy | 08:25 |
| myren | erm, get the gigabyte, test the processor & vid card, then return it | 08:25 |
| gpd | how do I do 'shift select' ? [would be another question for the wiki] | 08:25 |
| bstock | in which app? | 08:26 |
| bstock | i don't know if you can do it at all though.. | 08:26 |
| gpd | well - in general - but email / contacts etc. | 08:27 |
| bstock | only way i know of would be to bring up osk and use that shift button | 08:27 |
| gpd | how do you bring up osk without a text box? | 08:28 |
| bstock | sometimes the button in the center of the direction buttons will bring it up | 08:28 |
| gpd | ok - nvm - just thought it might be a feature i was missing | 08:29 |
| bstock | speaking of.. does the n800 have a scroll button in the center there? | 08:29 |
| gpd | how do you mean? | 08:30 |
| bstock | i thought i read something about it being used as a scroll wheel or something | 08:30 |
| gpd | it has the 4 way thing with button in middle, then | 08:30 |
| gpd | an escape, menu, home - | 08:30 |
| gpd | you can use the 4way to scroll pages etc | 08:31 |
| bstock | alright, prob the same as the 770. i thought maybe it had a scroll-wheel feature but wasn't sure | 08:31 |
| gpd | nope - nothing that resembles a wheel | 08:31 |
| gpd | holy crap - gmediaserver can up with the goods! | 08:32 |
| bstock | wow | 08:32 |
| gpd | i have a ridiculously large amount of music available to me now :D | 08:32 |
| bstock | 14 min.. not bad | 08:32 |
| gpd | mediastreamser seems to handle well | 08:32 |
| bstock | 220mhz ftw | 08:32 |
| bstock | wait, you're on an n800 right? | 08:33 |
| gpd | the 14 min is on an AMD64 3400+ with 2G and 1T drives | 08:33 |
| bstock | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/ces/itt15.jpg | 08:34 |
| bstock | that's sweet | 08:34 |
| gpd | yeah - very snazzy | 08:34 |
| bstock | unfortunately it's a mustang but still | 08:34 |
| gpd | -- this mediastreamer is amazingly fast with all this data | 08:34 |
| bstock | the concept is there | 08:34 |
| gpd | not much delay at all in starting or finding | 08:35 |
| bstock | what's the problem you were having with mediastreamer, it just doesn't see the service? | 08:39 |
| gpd | ? no problem with gmediaserver and mediastreamer -- all working fine | 08:39 |
| bstock | no before you got it working | 08:40 |
| bstock | i have the service running on my desktop | 08:40 |
| gpd | well - it didn't work at all with the avahi stuff | 08:40 |
| bstock | but mediastreamer doesn't see my desktop | 08:41 |
| bstock | although | 08:41 |
| *** bjv has left #maemo | 08:41 | |
| gpd | i just dropped all that and ran gmediaserver /mymedia | 08:41 |
| bstock | i should check my iptables.. | 08:41 |
| gpd | bstock: forgetabout all that -- install gmediaserver | 08:41 |
| gpd | of course it has now frozen having said that :} | 08:41 |
| bstock | lol | 08:41 |
| gpd | just the player -- still playing music - but unresponsive to taps | 08:42 |
| gpd | hah - media stream not responding - close? | 08:42 |
| gpd | very nice | 08:43 |
| gpd | closed... but still playing media! | 08:43 |
| bstock | heh | 08:43 |
| bstock | reboot | 08:43 |
| bstock | time | 08:43 |
| gpd | bah -- ssh root@teeny time | 08:43 |
| bstock | yeah | 08:43 |
| gpd | killed the gmediaserver destop and now stopped | 08:44 |
| *** bergie has quit IRC | 08:44 | |
| gpd | so do you know anything about the 'rendering' side of this versus the 'controlling' side? | 08:45 |
| gpd | ideally i would want the nokia to be a remote for my main stereo / tv | 08:45 |
| gpd | that is part of UPnP afaik | 08:45 |
| bstock | yeah screw rhythmbox | 08:46 |
| vittorio | you should be able to remote other upnp devices by selecting the device in top right menu | 08:46 |
| gpd | vittorio: very cool -- i should look into remote devices | 08:47 |
| gpd | i imagine a small box with a wifi antenna and RCA stereo cables - probably expensive / not made yet | 08:48 |
| bstock | yeah there are | 08:49 |
| bstock | i just don | 08:49 |
| bstock | 't know if they'd be compatible | 08:49 |
| bstock | http://reviews.cnet.com/ViewSonic_Wireless_Media_Gateway_WMG80_B1_Media_Kit_digital_media_server/4505-3243_7-31147561.html | 08:49 |
| gpd | HMG $646 | 08:49 |
| gpd | screw that dude - i'll plug the freaking optical cable in thanks! | 08:50 |
| bstock | hmm | 08:50 |
| *** phil|work is now known as philipl | 08:50 | |
| bstock | howbout linksys WRT54GL, mount smb/nfs drive | 08:50 |
| bstock | just need to port gmediaserver to it | 08:50 |
| bstock | if it's not already done | 08:50 |
| gpd | now i'm confused | 08:51 |
| gpd | how about if i just plug my desktop into my stereo -- and use the nokia as a controller? | 08:51 |
| bstock | vittorio: do you know if you can use gmediastreamer accross subnets? | 08:51 |
| gpd | that should be possible / no extra cost | 08:51 |
| bstock | wow it's 2 AM :( | 08:52 |
| gpd | hah - that is when i ordered by bluetooth sierra last night! | 08:53 |
| vittorio | bstock, dunno | 08:53 |
| bstock | time to check out. cya | 08:57 |
| *** bstock has left #maemo | 08:57 | |
| gpd | thanks bstock - cheers | 08:57 |
| gpd | hmm - i miss my adblock | 09:07 |
| tigert | no kidding | 09:07 |
| tigert | thats the most shocking thing to me. and flash banners | 09:08 |
| gpd | i know -- not seen them for years! ;) | 09:08 |
| tigert | on 3G adblock would help a lot with speed too | 09:08 |
| * gpd wonders what the next conquest should be | 09:08 | |
| tigert | i guess building one of those proxy-based blockers woud also work | 09:09 |
| tigert | should be easy to port | 09:09 |
| gpd | like the old junkbuster days | 09:09 |
| tigert | yea. those stil exist i think | 09:09 |
| gpd | tigert: you are n800 too right? | 09:09 |
| tigert | yea. | 09:10 |
| gpd | have you had any problems connecting to wifi after startup? | 09:10 |
| tigert | also a 770 | 09:10 |
| gpd | or weird 'pulsing' screen when in dim mode in some apps | 09:10 |
| tigert | hmm. no. but bugs might exist :) | 09:11 |
| gpd | ya -- hopefully bugs not hardware | 09:11 |
| tigert | one of the guys in the office had issues with wavelan, would connect, | 09:11 |
| *** dape has joined #maemo | 09:12 | |
| Milhouse | my god - are apple the new sony? They've been shipping 802.11n hardware in their desktops for quite a while and they need a software update to activate it, but the "enabler software" is only provided with the Apple Airport Extreme base station so you're shit out of luck using your iMac with a Linksys 11n router for example. | 09:12 |
| tigert | but it just didnt work, browser gave network errors | 09:12 |
| Milhouse | And people complain about Nokia...! | 09:12 |
| tigert | mil: duhhh | 09:12 |
| gpd | i am glad the apple iphone frenzy has died down - i am /so/ over it | 09:13 |
| gpd | but i had about 12 people asking me about it today - who normally wouldn't know that the intarweb existed! | 09:13 |
| gpd | the power of marketing... | 09:14 |
| Milhouse | "So Steve, I know my iMac has 11n hardware but, like, I'm not allowed to use it with my existing network kit until I buy some other piece of crap from you that I don't need?" | 09:14 |
| tigert | hey | 09:14 |
| gpd | tigert: what tips for fun and games on tablets? | 09:14 |
| tigert | i am just getting to work. i can imagine the topic of coffee discussions ;) | 09:14 |
| tigert | gpd, i just use browser, and mostly ssh with inz's xterm | 09:15 |
| Milhouse | What amazes me about the iPhone is that people are making excuses about how it will be so good in the future (gen 2, they'll add 3G etc, open the software blah blah) yet the 770 and N800 get caned because people don't "get it" | 09:15 |
| tigert | it installs bitstream vera so its pretty. | 09:15 |
| gpd | people like simple ideas - 'cos they are simple | 09:15 |
| gpd | like: 'no stylus!!!' | 09:15 |
| gpd | or 'USE YOUR FINGERS' | 09:16 |
| Milhouse | they like the iPhone because it looks nice and they're suckered by the iPod effect, mugs. | 09:16 |
| tigert | mil, because they run after apple because they know what they need better than themselves? ;) | 09:16 |
| Milhouse | touchscreen phones are CRAP, fkcing CRAP | 09:16 |
| Milhouse | CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP | 09:16 |
| Whiz | :) | 09:16 |
| tigert | well. i am sure discussion at work will touch eyecandy too. | 09:17 |
| gpd | oh dear -- i seem to have started this discussion again | 09:17 |
| Milhouse | I plonked down a fortune for the W950i yet I miss my pos T610 | 09:17 |
| daniels | i think the sketchiest thing about iphone is going to be text input; really not convinced by the on-screen keyboard | 09:17 |
| tigert | and we need more of that also. but gtk is sorta not too suited for animations and smooth transitions | 09:18 |
| gpd | daniels: i agree -- they show a 'finger' typing on our screen turned sideways -- no way | 09:18 |
| vittorio | is the N800 able to connect to a samba or nfs server? | 09:18 |
| tigert | daniels, our thumb kbd works okay thoug. if they have good click feedback it can be good. | 09:18 |
| gpd | vittorio: there is nfs-common installed on my n800 | 09:19 |
| tigert | though i am thinking that on te demos the keypad was AWFULLY SMALL | 09:19 |
| gpd | i think they think that people won't ever type on it -- they will just whizz the menus up and down forever | 09:19 |
| vittorio | gpd: so you can mount nfs ? | 09:19 |
| tigert | Apple demo videos i mean | 09:20 |
| *** Guardian has quit IRC | 09:20 | |
| gpd | vittorio: not tried as yet | 09:20 |
| Milhouse | Maybe it's because in the States, text isn't that popular? | 09:20 |
| daniels | tigert: right, the size was worrying | 09:20 |
| gpd | Milhouse: simmer | 09:20 |
| daniels | and yeah, i can't really see writing an sms on tha tthing. | 09:20 |
| gpd | i have already extracted myself from OSX once this year and i'm not going back! :) | 09:21 |
| gpd | but they do make life very easy if you 'just believe' | 09:21 |
| Milhouse | simmer? | 09:21 |
| gpd | Milhouse: I detected a mini-rant coming on ;) | 09:22 |
| Milhouse | from me?! | 09:22 |
| tigert | well. it CAN work if done well | 09:22 |
| Milhouse | surely not... nah quite chilled here | 09:22 |
| daniels | bizzare amounts of faith in things unseen, fanatical devotees, standing up on chairs and cheering and shouting when the glorious leader is on stage ... i've seen it all before | 09:22 |
| tigert | i mean, i am surprised how well i can type with this thumb keyboard on a moving bus | 09:23 |
| Milhouse | Just goes to show what good marketing can do for your products | 09:23 |
| tigert | so it definitely can be done | 09:23 |
| gpd | tigert: that is with the tumboard on the entire screen though - they don't show that on the videos | 09:24 |
| keesj | tigert, but it's also a lot of do the right thing[tm]. the gui again is slik | 09:24 |
| gpd | how much is the plan per month? did they mention that? | 09:24 |
| gpd | $599 with 2 year contract + $50/mo ??? | 09:25 |
| Milhouse | i've seen $30/month and $60/month mentioned | 09:25 |
| gpd | wow - that soon adds up | 09:25 |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 09:25 | |
| Milhouse | oh yes | 09:25 |
| gpd | is that with unlimited data? | 09:25 |
| Milhouse | i should bloody hope so! | 09:25 |
| Milhouse | and a cherry on top | 09:26 |
| tigert | yes | 09:26 |
| tigert | that was exactly my thought. but its a whole different story how the final phone looks. that was a well done demo presentation. | 09:26 |
| tigert | you americans with your plans | 09:26 |
| tigert | :) | 09:26 |
| gpd | true - but i think the 'one device to rule them all is probably flawed in the short term | 09:26 |
| gpd | you wouldn't attempt to combine a coffee maker and a toaster | 09:26 |
| Milhouse | and all the online demos are renderings, giving no indication of how the device will really perform in terms of responsiveness etc. mugs on engadget are talking about how the demos looks really "slick" well yeah, apple aren't going to insert random 2 second delays between actions now are they? ;) | 09:27 |
| gpd | just have the smallest possible device to do the job and communicate with all the others wirelessly | 09:27 |
| tigert | well. I for example wouldnt want to sidetalk with the 880 | 09:27 |
| gpd | sidetalk - being hold it next to your ear? | 09:27 |
| tigert | the headset is good for voip. but i dont want to wear one all the time | 09:28 |
| timeless | 880? | 09:28 |
| tigert | yeah. the 880 would make one clunky phone | 09:28 |
| Milhouse | Not sure I'd want to talk into an iPhone, particularly in a "dodgey" neighbourhood... | 09:28 |
| timeless | what's the 880? | 09:28 |
| gpd | you mean the concept phone wrist band thing? | 09:29 |
| tigert | erm, N800 ;) | 09:30 |
| tigert | just was thinking 770 and N800 at the same time | 09:30 |
| gpd | hmm... getting definite pulsing of dimmed screen :( | 09:30 |
| timeless | that'd get you the 870 like all the rumor sites | 09:31 |
| timeless | silly bear | 09:31 |
| timeless | tigers are wonderful things, they're bouncy bouncy.... | 09:31 |
| konttori | Considering how much iphone is an ipod, I presume they aim for people to have their ipod headset (with the mic) to be connected to iphone at all times and thus no problems talking to it | 09:31 |
| tigert | yea ;) | 09:31 |
| tigert | konttori, yea. | 09:32 |
| gpd | n800 drops connection to wifi again... :| | 09:32 |
| tigert | the n800 headset is nice, as one can actually voiptalk in public now with quite nice sound quality | 09:33 |
| *** qgil has joined #maemo | 09:33 | |
| gpd | oh -- a network error -- what a surprise | 09:33 |
| timeless | tigert: i'm too lazy to open my box :) | 09:33 |
| tigert | how far is the access point? | 09:33 |
| konttori | ahh... good. Does voip work on gprs / edge connections as well or do you need 3g? | 09:33 |
| gpd | about 4.5 feet | 09:33 |
| konttori | for decent latency I mean | 09:33 |
| gpd | maybe less | 09:33 |
| daniels | tigert: i can't. normal earphones don't fit in my ears; i need silicon mushroom caps. | 09:33 |
| qgil | "multi touch"? And, oh, can't the N880 fly? :) | 09:34 |
| lle | gpd: I noticed the pulsing as well, but only if the charger is connected | 09:34 |
| tigert | i think it does. its hard to test non-3G in helsinki though | 09:34 |
| gpd | lle: yes charger is connected | 09:34 |
| daniels | tigert: the mylo had the right idea there; you've got a crazy custom plug that leads to a small bit with the mic, button, and a standard 3.5mm plug, so you can plug your own headphones in | 09:34 |
| lle | gpd: and wifi seems to have some serious issues with wpa | 09:34 |
| daniels | qgil: touching multiple places on the screen at the same time | 09:34 |
| tigert | daniels, yea. snatch a set and lets solder a bit? | 09:35 |
| Milhouse | kontorri - whenever I tried 770 Google Talk VoIP over GPRS, my 770 rebooted :( | 09:35 |
| gpd | lle: no - this is wep, but consistent problem connecting on startup | 09:35 |
| qgil | daniels: I know, this is why I'm a bit surprised that someone expected this feature in the N800 | 09:35 |
| daniels | tigert: i've got two headsets on my desk, i think | 09:35 |
| tigert | shouldnt be hard | 09:35 |
| daniels | qgil: the iphone does it, so about ten people have asked if it's possible | 09:35 |
| lle | gpd: you've updated the software? | 09:35 |
| gpd | lle: yes, flashed yesterday | 09:35 |
| lle | ok | 09:35 |
| gpd | but not done the apt-get update with repos.maemo.org | 09:36 |
| gpd | which i hear is dangerous | 09:36 |
| daniels | tigert: but i'd also like not to still be able to use my earphones with other things, so i'd have to go to verkkokauppa ifrst | 09:36 |
| qgil | daniels: I see. Wow, 2 mins after logging in and I have already learnt something - I need my breakfast :) | 09:36 |
| daniels | gpd: right, the device is not upgradable with apt | 09:36 |
| daniels | qgil: you too, eh | 09:36 |
| konttori | Millhouse: Sorry to hear that. I only used Gizmondo to call to a friend in taiwan to a mobile line. Worked flawlessly every time | 09:37 |
| gpd | daniels: i got the mediastreamer working earlier with gmediaserver - fantastic stuff :) | 09:37 |
| konttori | Much more comfortable than skype on desktop. | 09:37 |
| tigert | and dont | 09:37 |
| tigert | apt-get update is not guaranteed to work right | 09:37 |
| * konttori looks forward to skype on N800 | 09:37 | |
| Milhouse | kontorri - only tried it to see if it was possible so no big loss, besides I only know one person who has VoIP :) | 09:37 |
| Milhouse | and he's on Skype! | 09:38 |
| konttori | I only called landlines. So, same issue. | 09:38 |
| gpd | gizmondo worked well too - - a very nice addition | 09:38 |
| Milhouse | daniels - I've missed the issues with apt... can you briefly explain as my N800 is arriving in a few hours... :) | 09:38 |
| gpd | s/gizmondo/gizomoproject/ | 09:38 |
| daniels | Milhouse: 'don't try to upgrade your device via apt' | 09:38 |
| Milhouse | ah, upgrade as in upgrade the OS? | 09:39 |
| vittorio | is it possible to make a backup on 770, copy the backup to n800 and do a restore on n800? or will it screw things up? | 09:39 |
| gpd | daniels: are any of the upgrades listed in redpill app manager safe - or is it just apt-get upgrade? | 09:39 |
| daniels | Milhouse: indeed | 09:39 |
| Milhouse | righto, thanks | 09:39 |
| daniels | gpd: i have no idea, sorry | 09:39 |
| tigert | daniels, yea. but i meant doing a short Y-cable that separates the mic plug into its own | 09:39 |
| daniels | tigert: oh, right | 09:39 |
| tigert | ie, just using the plug of te 800 headset. perhaps the mic too. | 09:40 |
| Milhouse | any of you nokians tried SDHC cards in the N800? | 09:40 |
| daniels | i suck at electronics :) | 09:40 |
| tigert | mic+clip and then a small female plug to add your own phones | 09:40 |
| daniels | Milhouse: the kernel doesn't have sdhc support, so it won't work | 09:41 |
| Milhouse | you must have a few lying around the place :) | 09:41 |
| Milhouse | 4GB SD works ok | 09:41 |
| Milhouse | and that isn't supposed to be supported either | 09:41 |
| daniels | Milhouse: no, _some_ 4gb cards will work okay, because they're still byte-addressed, rather than sdhc | 09:41 |
| Milhouse | so an SDHC won't fall back to SD ? | 09:41 |
| daniels | Milhouse: but any 4gb sdhc card will fail, because the support just isn't in the kernel at all | 09:41 |
| daniels | Milhouse: i don't know of any sdhc card that does, no | 09:41 |
| Milhouse | ok thanks | 09:41 |
| daniels | np | 09:42 |
| *** lardman|gone has quit IRC | 09:42 | |
| *** sKaBoy has joined #maemo | 09:44 | |
| sKaBoy | ei | 09:44 |
| sKaBoy | ops, wrong window :) | 09:44 |
| gpd | anyone got an estimate of how long before python for bora? | 09:48 |
| gpd | 'when its ready' -- failing that - an idea of whether it would 'just compile' | 09:48 |
| gpd | i see the mistral packages and might try it in my sdk | 09:49 |
| konttori | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-handson-i-called-my-mommy-227582.php | 09:50 |
| tigert | might just work with recompile, might just also run if they install. | 09:50 |
| keesj | so many people are going to try things like that | 09:50 |
| konttori | Funny that they still have 770 ad there | 09:50 |
| Milhouse | As Ari said "we keep on selling and supporting 770s" | 09:51 |
| Milhouse | Not sure how wise a move that will turn out to be, though... | 09:51 |
| *** Guardian has joined #maemo | 09:52 | |
| tigert | if the price is right, the 770 is a nice thing for a lot of stuff | 09:52 |
| timeless | well, if the 770s drop a bit in price | 09:52 |
| gpd | Screen: Most gorgeous ever. -- lies | 09:52 |
| timeless | gpd: which? | 09:52 |
| gpd | ^ review | 09:52 |
| Milhouse | right, but it will also increase the number of people bitching about the lack of OS2007 etc. | 09:52 |
| tigert | the n800 screen is good - the only lack is transreflectivity, so bright sunlight is not your friend | 09:53 |
| *** philipl is now known as phil|sleep | 09:53 | |
| Milhouse | gpd: Apple have reinvented the mobile phone, don't ya know | 09:53 |
| gpd | Google Maps: Perfect. <-- has anyone got scrolling working in n800 opera | 09:53 |
| Milhouse | Even though it does exactly what my W950i (and several other phones) do | 09:54 |
| timeless | gpd: sorry | 09:54 |
| timeless | i presume you mean panning | 09:54 |
| timeless | and basically, it's a design bug | 09:54 |
| gpd | yes -- drag with the stylus | 09:54 |
| timeless | the spec authors for the browser in the n800 didn't forsee google | 09:54 |
| gpd | arse | 09:54 |
| timeless | so you are stuck with a browser optimized for web1.0 | 09:54 |
| timeless | be thankful it works | 09:55 |
| gpd | also seems to be failing with google calendar | 09:55 |
| gpd | [as you mention] | 09:55 |
| timeless | historically calendar.google.com didn't work at all | 09:55 |
| * timeless hasn't actually tested calendar recently | 09:55 | |
| gpd | so we await an improved browser ported | 09:55 |
| dieguito | there's no gecko for maemo? | 09:55 |
| timeless | there's a minimo port avaialble | 09:55 |
| timeless | it should work tolerably well on the n800 | 09:56 |
| gpd | i tried calendar last night - looked good - but couldn't add an event - transparent box and 'submit' not working | 09:56 |
| Milhouse | There is Minimo, in perpetual development | 09:56 |
| dieguito | so it is factible to let's say, port the best browser ever, I mean of course Epiphany | 09:56 |
| dieguito | :) | 09:56 |
| * timeless coughs | 09:56 | |
| timeless | feel free to waste your time | 09:56 |
| dieguito | lol | 09:56 |
| dieguito | :( | 09:56 |
| * timeless goes off to post a gecko patch for a gtk induced crash | 09:56 | |
| lle | last I checked minimo didn't build for arm linux if taken from cvs | 09:57 |
| keesj | just use vnc :) | 09:57 |
| timeless | lle: unfortunately most people build on ports w/ patch sets | 09:57 |
| timeless | however, i don't recall which patches aren't in cvs | 09:57 |
| dieguito | keesj: vnc to a virtual machine inside a vmware on my linux box, way to go \o/ :P | 09:57 |
| timeless | and i'd rather post my patch than review a bug list | 09:57 |
| timeless | if you give me a pastebin url to a build failure, i'll find you the corresponding fix | 09:58 |
| lle | timeless: I figured something like that, but decided to give up on chasing the necessary patches | 09:58 |
| lle | sorry, can't produce them right now, was with the xpcom "reflection" stuff | 09:58 |
| timeless | that'll do | 09:59 |
| timeless | please wait | 09:59 |
| Milhouse | I thought Nokia had invested money in Minimo a couple of years back, it puzzles me why Minimo is still so far away from release | 09:59 |
| timeless | well, i have a parisc patch floating aroudn | 09:59 |
| tigert | timeless, also | 09:59 |
| lle | mozilla codebase is.. strange. | 09:59 |
| Milhouse | (other than the fact there are only about two guys working on it) | 09:59 |
| timeless | milhouse: i'm curious as to how you thought that | 10:00 |
| Milhouse | which bit? | 10:00 |
| Milhouse | money, or only two guys? | 10:00 |
| timeless | the investment | 10:00 |
| Milhouse | google for it - hang on | 10:00 |
| Milhouse | http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=4864 | 10:00 |
| *** sabotage_afk has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| timeless | in short: yes, they did | 10:01 |
| tigert | its a bit hard to do OnMouseOver hover right with a stylus | 10:01 |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| lle | timeless: but this was about a month ago, dunno current situation | 10:01 |
| timeless | which is what enables minimo to compile/run on it | 10:01 |
| *** sabotage_afk has joined #maemo | 10:01 | |
| *** sabotage_afk is now known as sabotage | 10:01 | |
| timeless | lle: i've landed various patches this month | 10:01 |
| timeless | and none are turning up | 10:01 |
| Milhouse | the link above is June 2004 | 10:01 |
| timeless | milhouse: the funding was a one off thing | 10:02 |
| Milhouse | 2.5 years ago when Nokia invested in Minimo | 10:02 |
| timeless | it wasn't for continuous investment | 10:02 |
| Milhouse | I wonder what it got them? | 10:02 |
| timeless | it got minimo to compile and run on arm | 10:02 |
| Milhouse | Obviously didn't get them a browser | 10:02 |
| timeless | <period> | 10:02 |
| Milhouse | Wasn't that always the plan - on WinCE? | 10:02 |
| lle | evaluation of the browser, to some definition of evaluation | 10:02 |
| timeless | it didn't include optimization | 10:03 |
| gpd | so do we have a vague idea of timeline for web 2.0 on nokia.opera | 10:03 |
| timeless | and it didn't include any stupid features that management might have required | 10:03 |
| timeless | gpd: i'm not sure which royal we you mean | 10:03 |
| timeless | i think tigert knows | 10:03 |
| gpd | the collective channel we ;) | 10:03 |
| timeless | i'm assuming as #maemo the answer is no | 10:03 |
| lle | with 770 running minimo would have been overly ambitious, imo | 10:03 |
| timeless | it's possible | 10:04 |
| timeless | there are debs and a repository | 10:04 |
| timeless | not that i managed to get the repository to work | 10:04 |
| timeless | it always breaks application installer | 10:04 |
| * lle is not surprised | 10:04 | |
| timeless | anyway, keep in mind that nokia is a company | 10:04 |
| timeless | old style | 10:04 |
| Milhouse | minimo on 770 wored ok, kinda. with optimisation it would be much better | 10:04 |
| timeless | it has a very long and drawn out process for doing things | 10:04 |
| Milhouse | worked | 10:04 |
| Milhouse | timeless: installing minimo from a deb worked ok for me | 10:05 |
| tigert | what interests me on "web2.0" more, | 10:05 |
| timeless | milhouse: i should have been clearer: i've installed from debs | 10:05 |
| *** elpaso has joined #maemo | 10:05 | |
| timeless | i know that works | 10:06 |
| timeless | i just haven't gotten the repository to work, so i can't have it give me updates or whatever a repository does | 10:06 |
| Milhouse | ah, but installing fom app manager breaks? | 10:06 |
| Milhouse | right | 10:06 |
| timeless | no, adding the repository breaks the app manager | 10:06 |
| tigert | is stuff like "pop out videocam and post to youtube" or "send to > flickr" | 10:06 |
| tigert | for photos | 10:06 |
| timeless | not installing from it, the entire manager breaks | 10:06 |
| gpd | tigert: was there and end to that sentence above? | 10:06 |
| gpd | ah - there is is - sorry | 10:07 |
| tigert | this kind of integration is a harder problem though | 10:07 |
| timeless | tigert: that's what scares me the most | 10:07 |
| timeless | it's a security nightmare | 10:07 |
| timeless | and that's after you ignore the integration prolems | 10:07 |
| timeless | fwiw, in theory flash has camera read support | 10:07 |
| tigert | well. web is scary. | 10:07 |
| tigert | yea. | 10:07 |
| timeless | so, eventually someone could fix a version of flash to do it | 10:07 |
| Milhouse | that level of integration - "post to youtube/flickr/etc" - would be pretty killer, though | 10:08 |
| timeless | however, i wouldn't expect it before say 2010 and flash 10 | 10:08 |
| daniels | timeless: app installer> you're screwing something up on your end, then | 10:08 |
| timeless | whichever comes second | 10:08 |
| gpd | yes - but all that stuff 'just arrives' once you have a browser capable of /anything/ | 10:08 |
| timeless | daniels: that's nice | 10:08 |
| timeless | please insult me more | 10:08 |
| inz | morning | 10:08 |
| timeless | i'll go back to getting work done | 10:08 |
| *** mazzen has joined #maemo | 10:08 | |
| daniels | timeless: jesus christ, it's a statement of fact, not an insult | 10:08 |
| timeless | i installed about 15 repositories | 10:08 |
| tigert | youtube has some flash thingy to upload video ad-hoc | 10:08 |
| timeless | that one is the only one that broke my installer | 10:08 |
| daniels | timeless: right ... | 10:08 |
| tigert | on a desktop computer with cam | 10:08 |
| daniels | timeless: hence, broken repository | 10:09 |
| timeless | it's the only one whose instructions said not to include certain fields | 10:09 |
| timeless | daniels: i know | 10:09 |
| timeless | anyway. i'd rather get work done, this is a waste of my time :) | 10:09 |
| *** fab has quit IRC | 10:09 | |
| timeless | ok forget posting a patch, i'll make someone else do that :) | 10:10 |
| tigert | you seem to enjoy it though ;) | 10:10 |
| timeless | not really | 10:10 |
| timeless | i enjoy posting patches and bugs much more | 10:11 |
| *** maddler has quit IRC | 10:11 | |
| gpd | stupid q: where are the source packages for repository.maemo.org? | 10:18 |
| daniels | gpd: ... on repository.maemo.org | 10:19 |
| gpd | so how do i download them from http? not seeing them in /pool/foo/free/bar | 10:20 |
| gpd | i normally rely on apt-get source :( | 10:21 |
| daniels | /pool/foo/free/source/bar | 10:21 |
| gpd | ah - hiding at the top -- very good - thanks | 10:21 |
| * timeless has found apt-get source to be dangerous | 10:23 | |
| timeless | it tends to corrupt packages | 10:23 |
| timeless | especially the way nokia manages packages :) | 10:23 |
| daniels | timeless: 'corrupt packages'? | 10:24 |
| timeless | sometimes two packages exist w/ a given name | 10:24 |
| timeless | a source package and a package package | 10:24 |
| timeless | and they aren't necessarily related | 10:25 |
| daniels | ... yes ... | 10:25 |
| suihkulokki | what timeless is trying to say, is that two different source packages can produce the same binary package. and apt-get source can pick the wrong one. | 10:26 |
| daniels | even though that should never happen, ever, that will lead to, sourcename_*.{dsc,tar.gz,diff.gz,} being downloaded when you run apt-get source binaryname | 10:26 |
| timeless | suihkuolokki: actually, in my case the source package produced an unrelated binary package | 10:27 |
| timeless | or something really annoying :) | 10:27 |
| daniels | suihkulokki: okay, which is a problem created entirely by the repository setup, and it still doesn't 'corrupt' packages | 10:27 |
| daniels | timeless: dude, that's what source packages _do_. they produce multiple binary packages. | 10:27 |
| timeless | daniels: erm | 10:27 |
| daniels | so in every case here, the worst case is that you get extra files that you didn't necessarily want | 10:27 |
| timeless | one usually expects package source-foo to produce at least foo | 10:27 |
| timeless | in my case it produced only unrelated-bar | 10:27 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #maemo | 10:27 | |
| timeless | and because it existed, i couldn't get the sources for foo easily | 10:28 |
| timeless | and this isn't a problem w/ repositories | 10:28 |
| daniels | timeless: apt-cache show foo, the source package name is trivially obtainable from there | 10:28 |
| timeless | it's a problem w/ the packages themselves | 10:28 |
| timeless | daniels: i'm a script | 10:28 |
| daniels | timeless: yes, but the repository management should never allow this to occur | 10:28 |
| timeless | i finished my script a few months ago | 10:28 |
| timeless | i deal | 10:28 |
| timeless | daniels: oh, well, err... | 10:28 |
| timeless | no comment | 10:29 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: specify the version of source you want | 10:29 |
| timeless | suihkolokki: please don't bother | 10:29 |
| suihkulokki | ie. apt-get source timeless-farts-kernel=2.6.18 | 10:29 |
| timeless | i had a bunch of people who seemed to know apt fairly well | 10:29 |
| timeless | and they essentially dictated what to do | 10:29 |
| timeless | it works well enough | 10:29 |
| timeless | a number of people here will vouch for that | 10:29 |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| *** greentux_alt has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| * gpd compiles python 2.4.2 for bora | 10:31 | |
| *** greentux has joined #maemo | 10:32 | |
| c0ffee | moin | 10:34 |
| vittorio | what. my n800 is already in town but UPS changed deliveryday to tomorrow. thats for the extra 20 euro i paid? | 10:35 |
| timeless | heh | 10:36 |
| daniels | vittorio: sounds like ups | 10:37 |
| lle | I wonder how much pain, fear and suffering must happen before this manic obsessive use of debian passes | 10:37 |
| gpd | crap -0- Nokia-N800-51:/home/user# dpkg -i python2.4_2.4.2-1osso13_arm.deb | 10:37 |
| gpd | dpkg: error processing python2.4_2.4.2-1osso13_arm.deb (--install): package architecture (arm) does not match system (armel) | 10:37 |
| timeless | heh | 10:37 |
| timeless | well, you could force it, but that'd be a very bad idea :) | 10:38 |
| gpd | that was compiledd in scratchbox armel | 10:38 |
| gpd | what am i doing wrong? | 10:38 |
| timeless | maybe the package file is wrong :) | 10:38 |
| gpd | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.1/free/source/p/python2.4/ | 10:38 |
| daniels | gpd: maybe your scratchbox setup is screwed | 10:39 |
| Guardian | morning all | 10:39 |
| lle | I think there's a sbox env variable controlling the dpkg architecture? | 10:39 |
| gpd | daniels: setup using the installer yesterday | 10:39 |
| gpd | [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/python] > | 10:39 |
| daniels | lle: debian itself isn't the problem, it's scratchbox, packaging by people who don't know anything about packaging, and our horrifically broken repository, that cause all these problems | 10:39 |
| lle | daniels: yes, I know, and I blame debian for all this | 10:40 |
| daniels | lle: i've been doing debian/ubuntu stuff for six years now, including setting repositories up by hand, and inter-distribution merging, and honestly, i hadn't even conceived of half of the problems i'd faced in the past eleven months | 10:40 |
| daniels | lle: ... seems rational | 10:40 |
| lle | daniels: yup | 10:40 |
| timeless | oh | 10:40 |
| * timeless chuckles | 10:40 | |
| Veggen | arm and armel are different. | 10:40 |
| timeless | daniels: http://swift/release/ | 10:41 |
| Veggen | different endianness. | 10:41 |
| c0ffee | btw, i figured out that the .deb files of scratchbox install the same broken setup | 10:41 |
| suihkulokki | lle: well, if everyone would use what you create, you would be claiming that people don't know howto use your system =) | 10:41 |
| timeless | if you have complaints, the scripts that generate it are somewhere on the server too | 10:41 |
| lle | suihkulokki: that's precisely what I do :) | 10:41 |
| gpd | here is what i did - as a complete retard with 36hrs knowledge: | 10:41 |
| gpd | downloaded source packages from above | 10:42 |
| gpd | copied to sbox-sdk-armel | 10:42 |
| gpd | dpkg-source -x python2.4_2.4.2-1osso13.dsc | 10:42 |
| gpd | cd'd | 10:42 |
| gpd | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 10:42 |
| daniels | lle: gentoo will fix everything ;) | 10:42 |
| gpd | copied .deb to n800 -- dpkg -i -- fail | 10:42 |
| lle | daniels: I know, that's why I use it ;P | 10:42 |
| daniels | Veggen: er, no, arm is little-endian by default. it's oabi vs eaib. | 10:43 |
| timeless | daniels: how many years will it take to build the system on a 770 w/ gentoo? :) | 10:43 |
| daniels | er, eabi | 10:43 |
| daniels | timeless: about as long as it takes to do anything useful with scratchbox ;) | 10:43 |
| lle | daniels: you're pathetic! :P | 10:43 |
| c0ffee | daniels, btw, is your job at nokia what lle used to do for 2005? | 10:43 |
| timeless | you like scatchbox as much as i do? | 10:43 |
| * timeless didn't think that was possible | 10:43 | |
| daniels | lle: i'm bitter because this finnish residence permit stuff isn't going well, and i need someone to take it out on. sorry. | 10:44 |
| timeless | daniels: isn't nokia supposed to deal w/ that? | 10:44 |
| gpd | any pointers for an 10 year linux vetern /still/ trying to learn? | 10:44 |
| timeless | or are you replacing an annual visa? | 10:44 |
| daniels | timeless: i'm replacing an annual one, three weeks before it expires, a couple of days before i leave the country | 10:44 |
| lle | daniels: no problem | 10:45 |
| daniels | gpd: look at /scratchbox/targets/SDK_ARMEL.config, make sure the architecture name is armel, not arm | 10:45 |
| gpd | [rpm -ba foo.spec was much easier!] | 10:45 |
| timeless | daniels: sounds like fun | 10:45 |
| daniels | timeless: this is actually entirely my fault | 10:45 |
| timeless | daniels: yeah, but i expect to be in our position some year in the future | 10:45 |
| timeless | btw, does nokia automatically deal w/ the annual one, or does the employee have to contact someone? | 10:45 |
| gpd | cat SDK_ARMEL.config | 10:46 |
| lle | c0ffee: in a way yes, I guess | 10:46 |
| gpd | SBOX_CPU=arm | 10:46 |
| c0ffee | lle, and what will you do now then? :) | 10:46 |
| timeless | hrm | 10:47 |
| timeless | http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2007/01/09/ces-nokia-unveils-the-nifty-n800-internet-tablet | 10:47 |
| timeless | what's this docking device for your car that they mention? | 10:47 |
| gpd | daniels: did i mess up on the sdk install instructions? | 10:47 |
| lle | c0ffee: umm, probably more on the kernel side | 10:47 |
| timeless | i don't remember seeing that listed on the box | 10:47 |
| suihkulokki | Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2004). | 10:48 |
| suihkulokki | All Rights Reserved. | 10:48 |
| daniels | gpd: okay, change arm to armel | 10:48 |
| suihkulokki | WTF is the POINT of releasing a REFERENCE implementation with that license?? | 10:49 |
| daniels | gpd: sometimes this goes wrong | 10:49 |
| timeless | heh | 10:49 |
| daniels | timeless: it's an accessory | 10:49 |
| timeless | daniels: like the headphones that are in the box | 10:49 |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 10:49 | |
| timeless | or like the gps unit i can buy for the 770? | 10:50 |
| * timeless loves ambiguity | 10:50 | |
| daniels | timeless: you can buy | 10:50 |
| timeless | was that announced at CES too? | 10:51 |
| * timeless doesn't understand why it was mentioned in that writeup | 10:51 | |
| daniels | probably. they were showing off navicore at the same time, which hasn't been released for n800 yet, only 770. | 10:51 |
| * timeless nods | 10:51 | |
| timeless | kinda poorly written article then | 10:52 |
| c0ffee | the nokiausa.com site mentiones the navi kit for n800 as well | 10:52 |
| timeless | does the nokiausa site still have a broken image for the n800? | 10:52 |
| c0ffee | here it works | 10:53 |
| c0ffee | it's a flash thing anyway | 10:53 |
| timeless | see, i don't have flash | 10:53 |
| gpd | daniels: i edited SDK_ARMEL.config in /scratchbox/users/gpd/targets to get SBOX_CPU=armel, exit sbox ran sb-menu - killall -- ran sbox... didi | 10:53 |
| gpd | still getting: dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture is arm | 10:54 |
| timeless | hrm, i can't reach www.nokiausa.com | 10:54 |
| * timeless wonders why | 10:54 | |
| daniels | gpd: i'm not sure, sorry. maybe lle would know a little more. | 10:54 |
| c0ffee | but the gps is only listed as possible accessoir | 10:54 |
| c0ffee | it's not buyable yet | 10:54 |
| lle | gpd: there's a wiki on scratchbox.org documenting the env variables | 10:54 |
| lle | no idea why you should need to use that though | 10:55 |
| daniels | c0ffee: er, the nokia ld-3w is available today, that's the one they've been selling with the 770 navkit for a while | 10:55 |
| c0ffee | it's still not listed on the site | 10:55 |
| timeless | Address: 147.243.138.170 | 10:55 |
| timeless | Aliases: www.nokiausa.com | 10:55 |
| timeless | is that correct? | 10:55 |
| daniels | lle: sometimes sbox-config -ct screws up and does arm instead of armel. no-one seems to have the useful combination of knows why/cares enough to fix it and go through the brutal process of geting everyone to actually use it. | 10:55 |
| timeless | (from nslookup) | 10:56 |
| lle | daniels: ok, could be. I've not built a debian package inside scratchbox in a loooong time. maybe never now that I think about it. | 10:56 |
| timeless | gpd? can you nslookup www.nokiausa.com ? | 10:56 |
| keesj | what is -ct? | 10:56 |
| timeless | create target | 10:56 |
| daniels | lle: heh | 10:56 |
| gpd | Server: 66.75.164.90 | 10:57 |
| gpd | Address: 66.75.164.90#53 | 10:57 |
| gpd | Name: nokiausa.com | 10:57 |
| gpd | Address: 147.243.138.170 | 10:57 |
| timeless | and i presume you can reach that server | 10:57 |
| timeless | Connecting To 147.243.138.170...Could not open connection to the host, on port 80: Connect failed | 10:57 |
| gpd | 64 bytes from www.nokiausa.com (147.243.138.170): icmp_seq=1 ttl=237 time=59.8 ms | 10:57 |
| timeless | Pinging nokiausa.com [147.243.138.170] with 32 bytes of data: | 10:58 |
| timeless | Request timed out. | 10:58 |
| daniels | worksforme | 10:58 |
| lle | daniels: I used to simply ask suihkulokki to package whatever I happened gobble together and claim as a "release" ;) | 10:58 |
| daniels | lle: yeah, i noticed, but by the time i got there, he wasn't doing that anymore :( | 10:58 |
| timeless | heh | 10:58 |
| timeless | ok, i don't get it | 10:58 |
| suihkulokki | I'm innocent | 10:58 |
| daniels | lle: for the proto modules and libraries, i still do the packaging myself, but for the server (which is all i really change these days), i just push a tag in git, and yauheni sorts it out | 10:58 |
| timeless | why can't i get to that server? | 10:58 |
| suihkulokki | wait, I wasn't blamed gor anything | 10:58 |
| * timeless wonders how to flush arp | 10:59 | |
| lle | suihkulokki is teh shit when it comes to packaging stuff, at least Worked For Me(TM) :) | 10:59 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:59 |
| gpd | lle search on wiki for 'environment variable' not yielding obvious answers - should i give up as hopelessly out of depth? | 11:00 |
| lle | gpd: no, wait, I'll dig it up | 11:00 |
| lle | gpd: http://scratchbox.org/wiki/EnvironmentVariables | 11:00 |
| lle | gpd: but there's nothing about dpkg in that list :( | 11:01 |
| lle | so not much help I'm afraid | 11:01 |
| * gpd goes for a long walk off a short pier | 11:02 | |
| gpd | 2am here -- thanks for the help -- ttyl | 11:02 |
| timeless | gpd: well, if you're in helsinki, there isn't ice at the end of the pier | 11:02 |
| *** dieguito_ has joined #maemo | 11:05 | |
| *** dieguito_ is now known as dieguito-zzz | 11:05 | |
| *** ab has joined #maemo | 11:06 | |
| *** dieguito has quit IRC | 11:09 | |
| *** Md has joined #maemo | 11:12 | |
| *** Eloi has joined #maemo | 11:12 | |
| tigert | i saw someone walking to work wearing a t-shirt today ;) | 11:17 |
| daniels | well, it is very warm | 11:18 |
| daniels | and blue skies | 11:18 |
| daniels | i'd honestly consider a t-shirt and shorts if it weren't so windy | 11:18 |
| tigert | yea | 11:19 |
| tigert | the wind is nasty. a tree fell on the road near my place last night | 11:19 |
| suihkulokki | there is some strange bright thing shining out there | 11:19 |
| daniels | yeah, the canal was looking quite rough when i left last night (well, this morning, as it was only 7h ago) | 11:20 |
| daniels | suihkulokki: it's okay, i'm sure it'll be grey, dark, and raining, soon enough | 11:20 |
| daniels | though i should shower and get outside before it does actually rain | 11:20 |
| daniels | if i miss the bright blue skies today, i'm going to be _pissed_ | 11:20 |
| dwd | It's nice weather here, too. | 11:21 |
| dwd | (Morning, BTW) | 11:21 |
| daniels | morning. and it even is. i wonder if i can get into work before midday today. | 11:22 |
| *** obi has quit IRC | 11:25 | |
| trenka | daniels: when do you sleep? :) | 11:28 |
| dwd | I had my usual tough commute. | 11:28 |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 11:30 | |
| bencer | i've done some very dirty packages of gpe-mini-browser, you can get them from http://bencer.cauterized.net/nokia770/ | 11:31 |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:31 |
| bencer | as i say on my email to maemo ml, i'll try to make some better packages this weekend | 11:31 |
| *** sKaBoy has quit IRC | 11:32 | |
| *** sKaBoy has joined #maemo | 11:33 | |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo | 11:33 | |
| *** loicm_ has joined #maemo | 11:35 | |
| *** bilboed has joined #maemo | 11:38 | |
| *** lele has joined #maemo | 11:39 | |
| *** obergix[work] has joined #maemo | 11:39 | |
| *** stanlly has joined #maemo | 11:40 | |
| daniels | trenka: rarely | 11:44 |
| *** dieguito-zzz has quit IRC | 11:46 | |
| Guardian | could someone tell me how to link statically against a library made with libtoo ? | 11:49 |
| Guardian | l | 11:49 |
| dwd | Guardian: libtool requires the sacrifice of your first-born to make it do that. If you don't have a first-born child as yet, or have previously sacrificed it, then I believe there's a hack involving a chicken. | 11:50 |
| alump | :) | 11:51 |
| dwd | alump: Oh, if only I were joking. | 11:52 |
| inz | Doesn't libtool automatically create .a files? | 11:52 |
| dwd | inz: I think it might, on some platforms, during certain phases of the moon. | 11:53 |
| alump | dwd, no doubts | 11:53 |
| Guardian | i guess i'll just get rid of autotools | 11:53 |
| inz | My osso-xterm for IT2005 used to link libvte statically and others dynamically | 11:55 |
| Guardian | inz: so you just specicy /usr/lib/mylib.a ? | 11:55 |
| saispo | it's possible to install software on mmc or not ? | 11:55 |
| dwd | inz: I *think* libtool outputs .a anyway on Linux. | 11:56 |
| inz | Guardian, yeah, passing that to the linker should do that | 11:56 |
| inz | dwd, when doing packages for maemo, I give shit about other platforms ;) | 11:56 |
| inz | dwd, IT2005 was ugly anyway... | 11:56 |
| Guardian | in fact i was curious about which path to pass and such | 11:57 |
| Guardian | but it just all depends on how i previously installed the lib | 11:57 |
| dwd | inz: The trouble is, libtool doesn't actually help portability all that well anyway. I have endless problems with it at work, because there we need rpaths and all sorts. | 11:57 |
| Guardian | wow wow wow !!!! another pretty good candidate ! http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/6820 | 11:57 |
| Guardian | power point and windows 95 ! *brilliant* | 11:58 |
| Guardian | ;) | 11:58 |
| Guardian | this discount offer really brings fun to the dev list | 11:58 |
| Eloi | Guardian: hehe... :) | 11:59 |
| dwd | Guardian: Yes, I have to admit I'm feeling somewhat less guilty for having done my bragging email, now. At least mine did have some relevance. | 11:59 |
| Guardian | dwd: what was yours ? poker stuff ? | 12:00 |
| ab | hehe | 12:00 |
| dwd | Guardian: No. Telomer. | 12:00 |
| Guardian | ok | 12:00 |
| ab | dwd: from telepathy stuff? | 12:01 |
| *** qgil has quit IRC | 12:01 | |
| dwd | Guardian: This Windows 95 one makes the poker one look valid, though. :-) | 12:01 |
| Guardian | :D | 12:02 |
| dwd | ab: Telomer's a mobile-optimized email client. Uses the IETF Lemonade standards, which you can read all about at http://www.lemonadeformobiles.com/ | 12:02 |
| ab | dwd: Ah, yes. Read that, sorry | 12:02 |
| ab | dwd: What IMAP servers do support it? | 12:02 |
| dwd | (Telomer means a short-chain Polymer, Polymer being my desktop client) | 12:02 |
| ab | dwd: Telomer in Russian means 'measurer of body' | 12:03 |
| dwd | ab: IMAP support is in Cyrus IMAP 2.3.x, or Isode M-Box if you want something faster but non-free. | 12:03 |
| ab | whatever sense in that :-) | 12:03 |
| Md | do I have any chance of getting a developer N800? maemo uses some of the debian packages I maintain (udev, module-init-tools, tcp-wrappers and ppp) and I'd like to learn more about how debian can be adapted to an embedded platform | 12:03 |
| dwd | ab: Hey. My boss is Russian, and he never told me. :-) | 12:03 |
| *** pdz has joined #maemo | 12:03 | |
| daniels | Md: /topic | 12:03 |
| daniels | Md: 'don't call us, we'll call you' | 12:03 |
| ab | dwd: like we have 'termometr', 'spidometr', etc | 12:03 |
| Md | daniels: I'll take this as a "no" then :-) | 12:04 |
| dwd | ab: Lemonade also needs some support from SMTP (Or Submission, to be accurate), which isn't yet found in open-source land. Again, Isode M-Switch supports it, though. | 12:04 |
| * dwd : Disclaimer : Isode is my employer, but have nothing to do with my client work. | 12:05 | |
| *** herzi has joined #maemo | 12:07 | |
| *** smcv_ has joined #maemo | 12:08 | |
| *** smcv has quit IRC | 12:08 | |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 12:09 | |
| *** trenka has quit IRC | 12:09 | |
| X-Fade | tigert: I think I fixed most layout/invalid html problems on test.maemo.org. We only have to wait for Ferenc to update the website with those. | 12:10 |
| dwd | keesj: BT tracking through your house? You're a serious tech addict. | 12:11 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #maemo | 12:12 | |
| *** Eloi has quit IRC | 12:21 | |
| *** Eloi has joined #maemo | 12:25 | |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 12:25 | |
| AD-N770 | good morning all | 12:25 |
| daniels | dwd: i know someone who used to use bt beaconing from his phone (usually in his pocket) to trigger music | 12:26 |
| Jaffa | daniels: cool | 12:28 |
| *** sbaturzio has joined #maemo | 12:28 | |
| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:28 |
| keesj | daniels, I have done that also but with sony erricson phones and j2me | 12:30 |
| daniels | keesj: yeah, this was s-e | 12:30 |
| keesj | I used this stuff http://www.avetana-gmbh.de/avetana-gmbh/produkte/jsr82.eng.xml | 12:34 |
| keesj | (on the server that is) | 12:34 |
| keesj | but if I look at the difference between the n770 and the n800 I expect the next version to have even more connectivity and features | 12:36 |
| *** trenka has joined #maemo | 12:41 | |
| *** siti has joined #maemo | 12:41 | |
| *** zumbi_ has joined #maemo | 12:43 | |
| inz | wh00, got MSN over Jabber to work more nicely when I set up my own jabber server | 12:44 |
| jtokash | What is the 'shared media' section in the file manager on the n800? | 12:45 |
| Veggen | inz: I ended up with using bitlbee. | 12:46 |
| Veggen | inz: everything through the IRC client. | 12:46 |
| Veggen | inz: bitlbee is an IRC-to-IM-proxy. | 12:46 |
| *** zumbi has quit IRC | 12:46 | |
| inz | Veggen, I know bitlbee, I use that too sometimes | 12:46 |
| inz | Veggen, but w/ 770 / N800 a jabber transport is nice | 12:47 |
| Veggen | inz: mm, true. | 12:47 |
| dwd | inz: XMPP is nice for other reasons that just chat, too. But it's surprisingly heavy on bandwidth - I need to take a serious look at that at some point. | 12:49 |
| Veggen | dwd: hmm. A specialized, IM-like bitlbee-client, could perhaps be a nice workaround for that, for those with a server to use ;-) | 12:52 |
| dwd | Veggen: I think it's mostly something that compression would sort out, actually. But I've simply not investigated, other than noting that if I enable the XMPP support in Polymer, my bandwidth counter goes up much faster. | 12:53 |
| *** jtokash has quit IRC | 12:56 | |
| dwd | Veggen: Hmmm... That's annoying. jabber.org's server does no compression in TLS, and only offers stream-level compression without it. How silly. | 12:57 |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 12:58 | |
| Veggen | hmm, my jabber-server requires TLS, I think. | 13:01 |
| Jaffa | Since it's nearly noon, I'll ask for today - just in case - anyone got a developer device discount code yet? With all these worthy applications on maemo-developers, I feel I must be slipping down the queue quite quickly... | 13:04 |
| c0ffee | </sarcasm> | 13:04 |
| dwd | Jaffa: I have a plan for that, though. I'm going to port strip poker, and then write a book on Windows 95 OSR2 - that should do the trick. | 13:07 |
| keesj | Jaffa, the sooner the better. I don't think many developers will buy the N800 if there is a slim chance they get a discount | 13:07 |
| Jaffa | keesj: agreed | 13:11 |
| *** pvanhoof has joined #maemo | 13:11 | |
| Jaffa | dwd: I might translate it into Esperanto | 13:11 |
| dwd | Well, the last DDP application wasn't quite so awful. Not that I can really understand the point of porting gossip - does that have anything over the existing IM UI? | 13:17 |
| suihkulokki | sources? | 13:19 |
| keesj | any stats on the battery life of the n800? | 13:20 |
| siti | well the specs are the same | 13:21 |
| siti | 3 hours usage | 13:21 |
| siti | 10 days standby | 13:21 |
| siti | but nokia doesn't lie I actually get about 6 hours battery life when I use my nokia 770 | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | dwd: no, true. But I'm not a fan of waiting. Also, everytime I see a subject of "Nokia Developer Device Program" in my inbox, I get excited. | 13:25 |
| tigert | hmm | 13:26 |
| dwd | Jaffa: And I certainly agree with keesj - even developers with very limited involvement and visibility (like, for instance, me) will still hold off buying an N800 on the off-chance they'll get one cheap. | 13:28 |
| *** shackan has joined #maemo | 13:28 | |
| Jaffa | dwd: yeah, I can't imagine any developer going out and buying one full price whilst there's still a chance... unless explicitly told something like "Developer discounts will not be issued until Q2 2007" | 13:29 |
| ab | so Nokia is essentially denying its own marketshare across developers by not being clear with Developer Device Programme :-) Everyone who could otherwise already contribute to Nokia's revenue by buying N800 is waiting :-) | 13:31 |
| dwd | Jaffa: You don't think most developers would be happy to wait? (Or at least, make more noise on the lists to bolster their chances) | 13:32 |
| *** bergie has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| Jaffa | dwd: Well, depending on how urgently they wanted one/what that date was etc. | 13:36 |
| *** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo | 13:43 | |
| keesj | I just would like everything to go back to normal , I was quite exited about the new device. but I preferred to talk about my programming problems. | 13:45 |
| *** jtokash has joined #maemo | 13:47 | |
| keesj | jtokash, where you using gwt for the minireader? | 13:51 |
| jtokash | php | 13:52 |
| Jaffa | Yay, mud-builder code checked into Garage: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | It's not yet usable, but still... | 13:53 |
| keesj | what does openembeded use as tool? | 13:54 |
| *** luck has joined #maemo | 13:55 | |
| *** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| * sbaturzio is away: Lunch time... | 14:02 | |
| tigert | hmm | 14:02 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #maemo | 14:03 | |
| *** hub has quit IRC | 14:09 | |
| guerby | just got my N800 yeah ! | 14:12 |
| *** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo | 14:12 | |
| Jaffa | guerby: cool | 14:13 |
| guerby | Jaffa, I did not check update / add repo yet, will do after work tonight | 14:14 |
| guerby | Jaffa, any thing known to be broken? | 14:14 |
| Jaffa | NAFAIK, but I don't have one | 14:16 |
| Jaffa | The more "always on" nature that Karoliina describes in her blog sounds good | 14:17 |
| guerby | Jaffa, there is no cover indeed, don't know what it will do on battery live | 14:19 |
| *** sp3000 has joined #maemo | 14:27 | |
| lardman | Is it possible to get an xterm (or ssh) up on an N800 yet? | 14:30 |
| *** booiiing has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| *** booiiing has joined #maemo | 14:30 | |
| lardman | If so, could someone run a test program for me to return some floating point data | 14:30 |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 14:31 | |
| *** etrunko has joined #maemo | 14:31 | |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo | 14:33 | |
| *** florian_kc has joined #maemo | 14:35 | |
| florian_kc | good morning | 14:35 |
| lardman | hi Florian | 14:35 |
| *** hub has joined #maemo | 14:39 | |
| * sbaturzio is back (gone 00:49:39) | 14:52 | |
| vittorio | great, got my N800! thanks UPS (and for postpone deliveryday to tomorrow, and then deliver today. almost didnt open the door) | 14:55 |
| moo_mou | oooh | 14:55 |
| vittorio | and the buttons are not cheap like other write! | 14:56 |
| Jaffa | vittorio: good to know | 14:57 |
| *** Ryback_ has joined #maemo | 14:59 | |
| tigert | hmm | 15:00 |
| Jaffa | tigert: you're doing a remarkable impression of a bee today | 15:01 |
| tigert | vittorio: I think they are not that good, but hey, nothing is perfect | 15:01 |
| tigert | Jaffa: :) | 15:01 |
| tigert | bzzzz | 15:01 |
| vittorio | tigert: i think the front buttons are good. the top could be better but not cheap | 15:03 |
| tigert | vittorio: yeah | 15:03 |
| tigert | it definitely is a nice device | 15:03 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|lunch | 15:04 | |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 15:09 | |
| *** smcv_ is now known as smcv | 15:15 | |
| *** stanlly has quit IRC | 15:23 | |
| *** waite has joined #maemo | 15:30 | |
| lele | vittorio, according to UPS mine is still in Brussels, so the one i have now in my hands must be someone else's :) | 15:31 |
| *** herzi has left #maemo | 15:36 | |
| *** HGFB has joined #maemo | 15:36 | |
| vittorio | lele, heh, next time i know not to take delivery status to serious | 15:42 |
| *** adoyle has joined #maemo | 15:51 | |
| *** part has joined #maemo | 15:52 | |
| *** framerate has quit IRC | 15:56 | |
| *** framerate has joined #maemo | 15:56 | |
| *** _matthias_ has joined #maemo | 15:58 | |
| |tbb| | is it possible to let kismet just sniff open networks? | 16:00 |
| *** sbaturzio has quit IRC | 16:02 | |
| *** Guardian has quit IRC | 16:09 | |
| *** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo | 16:11 | |
| *** nomis has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| *** nomis has joined #maemo | 16:13 | |
| *** atk_ has joined #maemo | 16:16 | |
| framerate | You got Kismet on the N800 by chance? | 16:17 |
| *** qos has joined #maemo | 16:18 | |
| *** Cwiiis has joined #maemo | 16:18 | |
| |tbb| | nope just on the n770 | 16:22 |
| |tbb| | but i think its a matter of days they will rls a n800 version ;) | 16:22 |
| framerate | heh | 16:22 |
| framerate | these "days" are killing me, since I can't get online with my blackberry through WAP, and I can't get online @ work due to VPN | 16:23 |
| framerate | so I only get to use this thing for like 3 hours at home every night | 16:23 |
| *** lardman|lunch is now known as lardman | 16:23 | |
| HGFB | I've just ordered an 800 today. How much faster than the 770 does it feel to you guys? | 16:24 |
| framerate | I never had a 770, but I know on the 800 I had 2-3 browser windows open, XChat, and file manager with no noticable slow down | 16:26 |
| framerate | I hear multitasking was harder on the 770 | 16:26 |
| HGFB | It was. The 770 is pretty underpowered. Nice but slow | 16:27 |
| HGFB | Handily I found someone to buy mine :) | 16:27 |
| framerate | Any idea what happened to stinghorn VPN software? Site's been down all week.... | 16:27 |
| *** X-Fade has quit IRC | 16:27 | |
| framerate | I really need a one touch VPN GUI client | 16:27 |
| framerate | Nice work on the sale :) | 16:27 |
| HGFB | Has anyone tried Nethack on the 800? | 16:27 |
| *** X-Fade_ is now known as X-Fade | 16:28 | |
| HGFB | I posted it for sale on a forum I hang around on. Within 30 mins I'd had three people wanting to buy the 770 | 16:28 |
| HGFB | Now I just hope Nokia do a good job of 1day deliveries :) | 16:28 |
| framerate | Nice :) | 16:28 |
| framerate | Did nethack run on the 770? | 16:28 |
| HGFB | Yes | 16:28 |
| HGFB | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-d2b3609d7d1f76ba0b74275a5031332d0b127a95 | 16:29 |
| framerate | I'll try now | 16:30 |
| HGFB | Cheers | 16:30 |
| framerate | I know doom works, though :) | 16:30 |
| HGFB | Doom runs on everything :) | 16:31 |
| framerate | heh | 16:31 |
| framerate | thank god for that! | 16:31 |
| framerate | nethack works, it appears :) | 16:32 |
| bergie | quite a few games listed... http://test.maemo.org/applications/games/ | 16:33 |
| HGFB | Thanks Framerate. | 16:34 |
| *** murrayc has joined #maemo | 16:34 | |
| framerate | HGFB: no prob :) If you hear anything about VPN, Kismet, or Maemo Mapper please let me know :) | 16:34 |
| dragorn | what about kismet? | 16:35 |
| framerate | working on the N800 | 16:35 |
| *** _matthias_ has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| dragorn | I don't have one yet to do dev on but I'm told it's the same chipset and drivers | 16:35 |
| framerate | are you the dev for the program? | 16:36 |
| dragorn | and someone in here tested it the other day and said it works fine. You'll need the SVN version of course, until the new release with the 770 hooks are added. | 16:36 |
| dragorn | s/are added/is released/ | 16:36 |
| framerate | Ahh, I just tried to download the only version I could find and put it on my memory card | 16:36 |
| * pahartik would like to see package of latest OpenSSH that supports "Tunnel" | 16:36 | |
| * framerate would like to see a one-touch VPN gui solution so he can get online at work | 16:37 | |
| dragorn | framerate: Someone made a maemo pkg of a svn build, it's in the garage. You'd probably do well to update it to the latest svn though. Or just wait a few days. | 16:37 |
| framerate | I think when I tried to install it I was missing a library.. I'm not too familiar with the debian package management system yet | 16:37 |
| framerate | same issue with maemo mapper, missing a library (I'm a gentoo user) | 16:38 |
| *** hub has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| dragorn | No idea. Worked on my 770. | 16:38 |
| framerate | yeah :/ | 16:38 |
| *** benzea has joined #maemo | 16:39 | |
| framerate | I'm just not sure what to do when it says "missing dependency blahblah" Like if that means the package it needs doesn't run on N800 yet, or if I just don't have it in my current repos | 16:39 |
| dragorn | missing dep is a missing package | 16:39 |
| dragorn | figure out what package and add it | 16:39 |
| *** Rotund has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| framerate | Well yeah, but sometimes it seems it's asking for an older version of what I think I have. I may be wrong though. | 16:40 |
| framerate | gonna work on it some more today | 16:40 |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 16:42 | |
| *** shackan has quit IRC | 16:43 | |
| Jaffa | Interesting question on ITT: XT9 handwriting recognition engine was rumoured to be in the N800/OS 2007 before release. Any sign of that in the finished product? | 16:43 |
| daniels | Jaffa: it's not in there, no | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | daniels: fair enough. | 16:47 |
| koen | Jaffa: got your discount yet? | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | Presumably you can't say any of: was it tried and rejected? did it miss the deadline? is it planned? | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | koen: nope. you? | 16:48 |
| koen | Jaffa: nope | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | Anyone else? | 16:49 |
| Jaffa | <deathly silence /> | 16:49 |
| framerate | I'm honestly really surprised items liek this N800 don't have a built in VPN client, since they seem so keen on getting you connected everywhere | 16:49 |
| daniels | Jaffa: honestly, i don't know, but if i didn't, i wouldn't be able to | 16:50 |
| Jaffa | daniels: :) | 16:50 |
| * Jaffa pictures daniels as Donald Rumsfeld talking about known-knowns, known-unknowns, unknown-knowns and unknown-unknowns. Oh, and pretty-gnomes. | 16:51 | |
| Jaffa | framerate: agreed. PPTP seems to be prevalent in Windows Mobile devices (unsurprisingly) | 16:51 |
| lle | DR is my idol | 16:51 |
| *** jtokash2 has joined #maemo | 16:53 | |
| keesj | screen shots on this page would be welcome http://test.maemo.org/applications/games/ | 16:54 |
| keesj | how will that page look if there are different versions for the 2006 and 2007 release? | 16:55 |
| Disconnect | Jaffa: i got 3, gonna build a full-size sliding-numbers puzzle with a little duct tape :) | 16:55 |
| keesj | is that the green/grey arrow thing? | 16:55 |
| keesj | Disconnect, are you searching for something you can do? | 16:56 |
| Disconnect | no, i'm taunting Jaffa with fake dd codes | 16:57 |
| keesj | I am willing to pay anybody 100 euro if they port gcompriz | 16:57 |
| Disconnect | tomorrow i'll probably be looking for something to do. today i probabsy have to go 2 hours to the data center :( | 16:58 |
| keesj | (this is not a joke) | 16:58 |
| framerate | I have 50 USD at least for a intuitive VPN client (or interface to openVPN if possible) | 16:58 |
| ntrs | Note to Nokia: Nokia needs to release Java Applet support for the N800. | 17:00 |
| dragorn | now that the jvm is open that's slightly more plausible, but it'd still be slow as hell until someone writes an arm JIT | 17:00 |
| ||cw | java needs to have stable armel support | 17:00 |
| keesj | ntrs, what version of applets would you like to be supported? | 17:01 |
| ||cw | it's not nokia's fault that java isn't stable | 17:01 |
| dragorn | and you'll still thrash your 128 meg of ram pretty quick :P | 17:01 |
| lle | 1.0.2 ought to be enough for anyone | 17:01 |
| keesj | java not stable? | 17:01 |
| ||cw | sun java on arm? no | 17:01 |
| ||cw | though now that it has an OSS license, maybe someone will fix it | 17:01 |
| * lle goes into evil hacker mode and starts preparing destabilization patches for java | 17:02 | |
| ntrs | keesj, I have no idea. | 17:02 |
| ||cw | and just saying "java" is too vauge, there is sableVM that is pretty stable on arm, but it is fairly small subset of sun's java | 17:02 |
| ntrs | There is this authentication plugin that I have to use on a daily basis. | 17:03 |
| ||cw | and so not really all that usefull, unless you code specificaly for sable | 17:03 |
| keesj | rewrite it to javascript or flash | 17:03 |
| ||cw | even java on cell phones, you have to code specificaly for the device/family of devices. java's "run everywhere" promise is crap. | 17:04 |
| ntrs | keesj, I did not write it. | 17:04 |
| keesj | no , my bank also requires java to be installed | 17:04 |
| ||cw | heh, I'd get a new bank | 17:04 |
| ||cw | my bank and crdit union site both work great on the 770 | 17:05 |
| keesj | cw to be honest I am already very happy it works under linux/firefox | 17:05 |
| ||cw | yeah but it requires signed client side code | 17:06 |
| ||cw | which sounds liek a security hole waiting to happen to me | 17:06 |
| *** sKaBoy has quit IRC | 17:07 | |
| *** luogni has joined #maemo | 17:07 | |
| ||cw | afterall, decompiling java is trivial | 17:07 |
| glass_ | requiring java for bank access is stupid | 17:08 |
| *** mgedmin has joined #maemo | 17:09 | |
| Veggen | I don't think bank id is dependent on secrecy of the java code. | 17:09 |
| daniels | mgedmin: ah, schooltool | 17:09 |
| mgedmin | hi, daniels | 17:09 |
| Veggen | but I still agree, it's stupid ;) I sort of know why it's done, but I think it could be done in other ways :) | 17:10 |
| daniels | mgedmin: hullo | 17:10 |
| daniels | mgedmin: (i used to work with stevea) | 17:10 |
| *** jtokash has quit IRC | 17:10 | |
| mgedmin | daniels: I remember you from mataro | 17:10 |
| daniels | mgedmin: oh. i don't remember at all, sorry ... | 17:10 |
| daniels | 'twas many moons ago | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | well, I'm not a celebrity like you :) | 17:10 |
| daniels | pfft | 17:11 |
| mgedmin | I mean hacking X, that's something | 17:11 |
| keesj | Veggen, it is not the secrecy of the code | 17:11 |
| keesj | it is usually a real cryptographic solution to prevent login codes to be sent over the wire | 17:12 |
| Veggen | yah. I know. | 17:12 |
| keesj | but I guess with web 2.0 it can be done in javascript | 17:13 |
| Veggen | I work in the business :) (I'm working for a company that runs IT services for a bank with a million internt banking customers, myself) | 17:13 |
| keesj | Oops :) | 17:13 |
| ||cw | so what's ssl for then | 17:13 |
| X-Fade | ||cw: That used to be too insecure for banks :) | 17:14 |
| dragorn | It's some combination of trying to use their own crypto (which I don't trust. Few people can implement crypto properly.) and beating spyware/brute login attempts (sometimes it works, othertimes, no. spyware can snapshot the pixels around each mouseclick to steal your pw if you type it in that way) | 17:15 |
| ||cw | ssl is as secure the keylength you use when you make the cert | 17:15 |
| Veggen | dragorn: bank I am involved in, was the victim of a malware attack in december. trojan on Windows PCs that just hijacked the PC and Internet Explorer once the user had successfully logged in to the bank. | 17:16 |
| *** phil|sleep has quit IRC | 17:16 | |
| Veggen | dragorn: I guess the result will be to require new authentication before you do external transfer of money. | 17:17 |
| dragorn | Veggen: Yup. It happens. Problem is, it's not preventable by using java. You can stopgap one type of attack, but you can't prevent something that snapshots the screen to record the pw graphically (and those exist), etc | 17:17 |
| Veggen | dragorn: hey, of course not. I'm not advocating java here. | 17:17 |
| dragorn | Veggen: I know why they do it, theres just no effective solution when you're dealing with significantly owned workstations ;/ | 17:17 |
| keesj | my bank sends sms to my phone with code and a list of changes | 17:18 |
| Veggen | keesj: Sounds secure enough, if you trust SMS. | 17:18 |
| ||cw | there's one solution, require not using IE6 | 17:18 |
| Veggen | SMS hasn't really been deemed hackworthable. | 17:18 |
| Veggen | But if people start trusting it? I mean, with these windows-phones, these days, can't these phones be hacked also? Of course, you'll need to match hacked phones with hacked Windows PCs, that's not so easy, perhaps ;-P | 17:19 |
| keesj | but if they want to intercept an sms that is a different thing right? they would need to hack in a different place | 17:19 |
| Veggen | true. | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | Veggen: Well I can send an SMS with every from number I want. But you would have to be faster than the bank too :) | 17:20 |
| Veggen | hmm, gotta go. | 17:20 |
| keesj | so you really need to target that iphone:) | 17:22 |
| keesj | and you can always use vnc :) | 17:23 |
| glass_ | there was some mms exploit in wm | 17:23 |
| glass_ | though not that reliable or easy to execute code with it.. | 17:23 |
| *** ntrs has quit IRC | 17:25 | |
| *** keesj has quit IRC | 17:29 | |
| *** kender has joined #maemo | 17:32 | |
| *** fab has joined #maemo | 17:33 | |
| *** qos has quit IRC | 17:37 | |
| *** matt_c has quit IRC | 17:37 | |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 17:41 | |
| *** dedekind has joined #maemo | 17:41 | |
| dedekind | hey, how are people supposed to apply for 99 Eur N800 vaucher? | 17:42 |
| dedekind | didn't find any description | 17:43 |
| suihkulokki | see topic | 17:43 |
| lardman | Does xterm work on the n800, or ssh, or any way of getting to the command line? I'm interested in comparing the output of some tests on the softfloat vfp and hardware vfp implementations | 17:43 |
| framerate | lardman: yeah it works | 17:43 |
| *** obi has joined #maemo | 17:44 | |
| lardman | framerate: Can I give you a link to a binary to try (or source if you have a toolchain running for it)? | 17:45 |
| lardman | framerate: Source here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/machar.c | 17:46 |
| framerate | I don't have the toolchain stuff set up yet, Haven't had a chance to work on any dev stuff yet | 17:47 |
| framerate | this is my first tablet :) | 17:47 |
| lardman | framerate: To be compiled with: gcc -DDP -DTEST -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp machar.c, binary here (if you're willing to trust me ;) ): http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/a.vfp.out | 17:48 |
| koen | lardman: '-mfloat-abi=softfp' shouldn't be needed for eabi | 17:49 |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 17:49 | |
| lardman | koen: But how does the toolchain know whether to generate softfloat or hardfloat then? | 17:50 |
| *** Guardian has joined #maemo | 17:50 | |
| lardman | koen: Ah, I see what you mean, just that that bit is unncessecary, fair enough | 17:50 |
| trenka | lardman: email, please | 17:52 |
| lardman | trenka: s dot g dot pickering at bath dot ac dot uk | 17:52 |
| *** matt_c has joined #maemo | 17:55 | |
| framerate | So I can get online through my cell phone on my laptop using a modem script, is there any way to do that on the tablet? | 17:58 |
| framerate | normal BT DUN doesn't work | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | it should work | 17:58 |
| framerate | well I'm not paying 100 dollars for a cingular unlimited data plan... | 17:59 |
| framerate | I'm just using the handheld's WAP account | 17:59 |
| Jaffa | We should publicise a new method for getting an N800 discount code, some labyrinthine tortuous adventure for someone to complete. Preferably one which results in us a) getting some cash, b) looking like geniususeususses, c) getting some high-profile, wanted feature on Maemo. | 17:59 |
| lle | you're not talking about setting up an x-rated website, are you? | 17:59 |
| *** mlpug has joined #maemo | 18:00 | |
| daniels | maemo completely naked -- only booting into initfs? | 18:00 |
| lle | ugh | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | look at the init on *that* | 18:01 |
| lardman | trenka: Many thanks | 18:02 |
| framerate | The dialup I setup on my laptop is here: http://www.fibble.org/archives/000508.html | 18:02 |
| framerate | script is here: http://www.fibble.org/BlackBerry%208100 | 18:02 |
| framerate | if anyone has any idea if it'd be possible on the handheld | 18:03 |
| framerate | I'm not much of an ASM guy >.> | 18:03 |
| *** philipl has joined #maemo | 18:03 | |
| c0ffee | x-rated website sounds good :D | 18:03 |
| lardman | trenka: Interesting, the data it returns is different to that from my 770, which is most probably a difference caused by the hardware (as a PXA255 produces the same output as the 770 does) | 18:04 |
| *** dedekind has left #maemo | 18:05 | |
| lardman | s/hardware/hardware vfp | 18:05 |
| * Jaffa was thinking more geeky, to be honest: "To apply for an N800 discount you need to complete one of the following challenges: a completed, auto-Hildonising, Mono or Java environment running on Maemo; an image viewer and processor with similar interface to the iPhone's photos app (tip: use a hardware button as a modifier instead of multitouch); ..." | 18:06 | |
| *** murrayc has quit IRC | 18:06 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 18:06 | |
| * mgedmin has an idea for a hack: an application that intercepts mouse events and draws fake fingerprints on top of other apps | 18:07 | |
| mgedmin | would probably need a composition manager running, which might not be feasible on the 770 :/ | 18:07 |
| dwd | Incidentally, that remind me - I had to do a stackload of research on the iPhone today, and noticed that Apple aren't, currently, doing anything to allow third party developers onto it. | 18:09 |
| *** snorkelyd has joined #maemo | 18:11 | |
| *** ab has quit IRC | 18:11 | |
| *** ntrs has joined #maemo | 18:12 | |
| ||cw | yeah i saw that | 18:12 |
| ||cw | which makes it not a smartphone | 18:12 |
| ||cw | technicaly | 18:12 |
| *** hub has joined #maemo | 18:13 | |
| dragorn | I still question if it really runs OSX, or if it just runs a graphics layer that looks the same. | 18:13 |
| dragorn | Which wouldn't be answerable without a SDK | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | the website claims it runs OSX | 18:13 |
| dwd | dragorn: There's some stuff about Apple telling OS X developers to write apps that are "resolution independent", which implies that they will open up the platform, and also that it's OS X. | 18:14 |
| *** philipl_ has joined #maemo | 18:15 | |
| * Jaffa 's betting on the same Mach kernel and some of the high level graphics libraries, but most of the stuff between not being there. Is it really "OS X" as people know it if it doesn't have the Dock, Finder, Menubar, window manager etc. | 18:15 | |
| lle | I wonder if their universal binaries will soon include ARM versions in them as well.. | 18:15 |
| dragorn | Could be. I just wonder how close it is to "really osx" with the same kernel and libs. Then of course we get into the semantics of "if its the same API, is it the same OS". | 18:15 |
| lle | no reason why it couldn't be the same kernel and basic libs | 18:16 |
| *** espo has joined #maemo | 18:17 | |
| lle | hmm, maemo SDK will soon have some serious competition from Xcode ;) | 18:17 |
| part | haha | 18:19 |
| lle | but it's good, I mean, then we'll just have to make it better. Quite simple. | 18:20 |
| daniels | what could possibly go wrong | 18:20 |
| lle | everything, as usual :) | 18:20 |
| lle | but this would be boring if there's no challenge | 18:21 |
| ||cw | http://techdigest.tv/2007/01/nokia_responds.html | 18:21 |
| framerate | Is anyone using cingular to dialup via bluetooth by chance? | 18:22 |
| framerate | and is there more info someplace when it says "remote server error, try again" ? | 18:22 |
| *** Xetra has joined #maemo | 18:22 | |
| Xetra | Hi all | 18:22 |
| espo | is java availibe for the n800? | 18:23 |
| ||cw | no | 18:23 |
| Xetra | just a question : is the dPad of the n800 is multi directional ? | 18:23 |
| daniels | Xetra: yes | 18:23 |
| ||cw | java is availble on no linux arm device | 18:23 |
| lle | ||cw: I'm not sure that's true? I seem to have a hazy idea of seeing a presentation from actually more than one company touting montavista linux + qtopia + java | 18:24 |
| Disconnect | ||cw: didn't the japanese zaurus image have java? | 18:24 |
| Xetra | cool :) | 18:25 |
| ||cw | lle: sablevm used to work, but is greatly outdated now and was always only a small subset of java | 18:25 |
| part | I can't see why anyone would want java on the tablet | 18:25 |
| lle | part: to use up the extra 40+ megs of RAM that are currently free? | 18:25 |
| espo | part, :) for coding on trip to school | 18:25 |
| ||cw | the "killer" part of java, swing, has never worked on arm | 18:25 |
| lle | swing is definitely a killer | 18:26 |
| lle | a murderer I might add | 18:26 |
| daniels | you've got that right | 18:26 |
| ||cw | so many of the corss platform java apps use it though | 18:26 |
| espo | because the device is small and not that big like my laptop | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | ||cw: I got a Swing app running last night on my 770 using Classpath | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | Not exactly usefully, of course. AWT's a much better bet. SWT could be interesting, too. | 18:26 |
| ||cw | so without swing, you have to writ to the device anyway, so why bother with java | 18:26 |
| daniels | ||cw: yes, the legions of cross-platform java apps | 18:26 |
| lle | foreign legions | 18:27 |
| lle | aliens with predators | 18:27 |
| lle | I wish it was '96 again, when I still believed Java could be something for client side | 18:28 |
| * mgedmin never believed in Java | 18:28 | |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 18:29 | |
| *** philipl has quit IRC | 18:29 | |
| mgedmin | although Java did at least one good thing: it established the credibility of garbage-collecting interpreted languages for serious use | 18:29 |
| *** fab has quit IRC | 18:31 | |
| *** _matthias_ has joined #maemo | 18:32 | |
| lle | yeah, well. it kinda went to hell because Sun wanted to implement *everything* in java, not bothering to properly bind to existing stuff. At least that's what killed it for me. | 18:33 |
| lle | and the native interface (before JNI) was so bad, so bad. | 18:34 |
| lle | not sure how it looks today | 18:34 |
| c0ffee | well | 18:37 |
| daniels | it still looks like java | 18:37 |
| c0ffee | mainly licence issues | 18:37 |
| daniels | by which i mean, solaris from 1992 | 18:37 |
| lle | daniels: ?? the native C call API? | 18:38 |
| lle | daniels: wtf you're talking about? ;P | 18:38 |
| lindi- | lle: look at jnode if you want an OS written in java :) | 18:38 |
| *** epx has joined #maemo | 18:39 | |
| lle | lindi-: I'll pass, thank you :) | 18:39 |
| *** kender has quit IRC | 18:40 | |
| dragorn | Interesting conversation on dailydave re: the iphone cpu and if its really osx, to pop back to the previous discussion briefly. Lots of supposition and a post from an apple guy who says "we're hiring security ppl if you want to know how it really works" | 18:42 |
| framerate | Anyone know where the phone dialup scripts are stored on the 770/800 ? | 18:44 |
| koen | daniels: is os2007 compiled for armv5te or armv6? | 18:44 |
| framerate | oh dang, I guess it's a moot point because my xterm just stopped working ;( | 18:45 |
| daniels | koen: 6 | 18:46 |
| *** jtokash has joined #maemo | 18:46 | |
| koen | daniels: ok, thanks | 18:46 |
| daniels | np | 18:46 |
| *** espo_ has joined #maemo | 18:57 | |
| *** Tahitibob has joined #maemo | 18:58 | |
| |tbb| | will the opera browser under n800 support ajax ? | 18:58 |
| _matthias_ | kind of a strange question |tbb| | 18:58 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #maemo | 18:59 | |
| florian_kc | hi jpetersen | 19:00 |
| _matthias_ | ajax is just a buzzword ... i mean if the javascript code is "light" enough opera on 770 already supports ajax | 19:00 |
| jpetersen | hi florian | 19:00 |
| _matthias_ | perhaps 800 does a little bit better due to more memory | 19:00 |
| *** philipl_ is now known as phil|work | 19:02 | |
| *** |tbb| has quit IRC | 19:02 | |
| *** _matthias_ has quit IRC | 19:02 | |
| *** jtokash2 has quit IRC | 19:04 | |
| *** sKaBoy has joined #maemo | 19:05 | |
| *** luogni has quit IRC | 19:05 | |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| *** hub has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| *** jtokash has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| *** espo has quit IRC | 19:13 | |
| *** espo_ is now known as espo | 19:13 | |
| *** Eloi has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| gpd | so why doesn't the contacts app have physical address information... does the real world no longer matter? | 19:19 |
| *** jamey has joined #maemo | 19:20 | |
| *** jtokash has joined #maemo | 19:20 | |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 19:23 | |
| mgedmin | why isn't the contacts app open source, so that eager developers can add physical address information? | 19:28 |
| MDK | mgedmin: address-book? | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | probably, yes | 19:29 |
| MDK | that's actually a good question | 19:29 |
| MDK | (why it's not) | 19:29 |
| MDK | mgedmin: address-book uses evolution data server as the backend | 19:30 |
| MDK | so it actually has fields for addresses, etc. | 19:30 |
| MDK | it's just that UI doesn't support it | 19:30 |
| MDK | (sigh) | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | so, in theory, somebody could write a replacement UI | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | I just wonder, it's not like a contacts app is something ground-breaking that must be closed to protect trade secrets | 19:31 |
| MDK | definitelly | 19:31 |
| MDK | maybe Onne is just an lazy ass or something | 19:31 |
| MDK | tko: hints? | 19:31 |
| koen | mgedmin: doesn't o-hand contacts use the same backend? | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | just the thought I had a second ago | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | now googling for it | 19:32 |
| daniels | it does | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | "contacts" and "dates" are such ungooglable names | 19:32 |
| daniels | projects.o-hand.com/contacts/ | 19:32 |
| koen | (I know it uses eds, but maybe nokia osso'd eds-dbus) | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | although dates does give me the o-hand.com result on the first google page | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | Are we sure the address book isn't open source in the stack of stuff that koen's got unpacked? | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | hm, last time I looked for it was in mistral, and it was in the non-free section | 19:33 |
| koen | mgedmin: the kernel was also in the non-free section | 19:34 |
| * mgedmin reads http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/source/Sources | 19:34 | |
| *** Md has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
| *** ferulo has joined #maemo | 19:36 | |
| *** dape has quit IRC | 19:37 | |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 19:37 | |
| *** espo has quit IRC | 19:38 | |
| *** elpaso has left #maemo | 19:39 | |
| tko | MDK, about why onne is lazy? he's not lazy, he's complaining about treeview | 19:39 |
| daniels | you don't say | 19:41 |
| tko | starting point is that all UI is closed to give us competitive edge in the user interface, or user experience | 19:41 |
| daniels | i think the reasoning there is something like avoiding cheap knockoffs | 19:41 |
| *** greentux has quit IRC | 19:42 | |
| lle | I think scratchbox prevents cheap knockoffs from happening well enough | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | tko: After Apple's demos, I don't think you've got much to worry about ;-/ | 19:43 |
| MDK | heh | 19:43 |
| *** greentux has joined #maemo | 19:43 | |
| MDK | Jaffa: it's not that "we" in particular want to keep it closed | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | MDK: Understood. | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | Believe me, I've got lots of sympathy for you all. | 19:43 |
| tko | MDK, come on, "we" definitely want to keep all our sketch related trade secrets secret ... right? :) | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | http://maemo.o-hand.com/packages/mistral/ does not have a deb for contacts | 19:45 |
| tko | addressbook is an integral part of the whole contacts/chat/voip stuff which doesn't really exist anywhere else right now, so it makes some sense to keep it closed for a while | 19:45 |
| gpd | so it isn't a policy decision -- 'this device is not a PIM - do not attempt to use it like one' | 19:45 |
| daniels | lle: haha | 19:46 |
| *** xan has joined #maemo | 19:46 | |
| mgedmin | I'd forgotten that osso-addressbook can also show contacts stored on a jabber server (or two) | 19:46 |
| tko | gpd, the product isn't PIM, but then how much we support / enable other people to turn it into one is a different issue | 19:47 |
| Jaffa | tko: maybe, I think in the next few months Nokia will have to open source more so that enthusiastic hackers can try and help get the UI up to a competitive level with iPhone (which sucks compared with 770/N800 in many ways, but users like pretty, usable, interfaces)) | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | heh | 19:47 |
| Jaffa | Which is the point Dave Cridland made on maemo-dev just now, in fact. | 19:48 |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
| mgedmin | just establish a project called Harmony with the goal to recreate all closed Nokia apps for maemo | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | then sit back and wait | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | it worked with Qt and Java | 19:48 |
| Jaffa | hehe | 19:48 |
| lle | yeah, right | 19:48 |
| MDK | Jaffa: with all respect to open-sourcing (in which I fully believe), it doesn't help to get good ui done | 19:48 |
| daniels | mgedmin: poky + contacts + dates + minimo; all it misses is the video and voip stuff | 19:48 |
| koen | Jaffa: or Dave Neuer's point | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | what's poky? | 19:49 |
| ferulo | haha, the harmony for QT!!! I remember my first opern-soruce co-worker starting it! | 19:49 |
| koen | mgedmin: o-hands distribution/gui | 19:49 |
| gpd | meanwhile i am back to searching .vcf files by hand to find my dentists floor number while waiting for the elevator - text files forever! | 19:49 |
| koen | http://projects.o-hand.com/poky | 19:49 |
| Jaffa | koen: Oh yeah. Where'd I get the name "Cridland" from? | 19:49 |
| daniels | Jaffa: dwd | 19:50 |
| Jaffa | Ah :) | 19:50 |
| * Jaffa apologies to dwd and Mr Neuer both | 19:50 | |
| Jaffa | s/gies/gises/ | 19:50 |
| *** Disconnect has quit IRC | 19:51 | |
| Jaffa | MDK: I probably agree, but to be frank if you've not got the time/skills/inclination in-house at worst case it stays still, best case you get one hacker who's passionate enough to really give some improvements. Admittedly, it's a long shot; but it's a matter of perception too: why should a UI expert hacker give their time and expertise to Nokia for free, with no guarantee of it being accepted, and nothing in return? (They can't even fork something and let a | 19:52 |
| * Jaffa stops choir-preaching. | 19:53 | |
| MDK | Jaffa: yes, in this sense you're right | 19:53 |
| MDK | it's about creating possibilities | 19:53 |
| koen | Jaffa: "not overnight" | 19:54 |
| * koen hides | 19:54 | |
| lle | it should be about creating a superior product, it takes time | 19:54 |
| * Jaffa grins | 19:54 | |
| Jaffa | For example, there's nothing stopping people suggesting new layouts, GUIs and UI concepts to Nokia now. Except it's giving them stuff for free. Open source is about sharing, not just giving. | 19:55 |
| lle | people just need candy, which is fine, kids don't complain half as much if they're busy stuffing themselves with something sweet | 19:56 |
| MDK | lle: heh | 19:56 |
| daniels | you'll make a great father some day | 19:56 |
| lle | hehe | 19:56 |
| MDK | lle: dude, you made my day | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | lle: that's true ;-) | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | So talking of bribery, where're the developer programme details? ;-) | 19:57 |
| tko | Jaffa, "don't call us, we'll call you" isn't enough detail? :) | 19:57 |
| koen | Jaffa: you say "I have bribes" and nokia will call you :) | 19:58 |
| Jaffa | It's a *level* of detail, certainly. | 19:58 |
| * Jaffa has a headache, but that's probably unrelated. | 19:58 | |
| gpd | i don't think you can dismiss all the iphone stuff as just eyecandy -- if it has integration with AddressBook and iCal - that is powerful stuff | 19:59 |
| lle | gpd: yeah, but we should be making things that make people go "ooh" and "aah", instead of just providing bloody frameworks | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | I was most impressed by the scrolling method in the song list | 20:00 |
| daniels | lle: it would help if the frameworks were, y'know, good | 20:00 |
| lle | and that "ooh" factor can apply to the frameworks as well | 20:00 |
| lle | daniels: agreed | 20:00 |
| gpd | meanwhile -- as a USER -- i can relate my experience this morning and summarize that so far my device needs some work to be totally useful. | 20:01 |
| *** sKaBoy has quit IRC | 20:01 | |
| tko | yeah, but when you have something like X in your framework, what can you do...?-) | 20:01 |
| lle | tko: a lot | 20:01 |
| MDK | heh | 20:02 |
| mgedmin | tko: run compiz on it? | 20:02 |
| * mgedmin ducks | 20:02 | |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 20:02 | |
| gpd | Left home, wifi gone. arrive at dentist - can't remember the floor -- look in shiny new gadget -- no address info - find .vcf file - extract floor and room number --- | 20:02 |
| Jaffa | tko: of course, when I say detail what I really want is an email in the next five minutes saying "congratulations, Nokia values your contributions to Maemo, here - have a discount code" | 20:03 |
| gpd | arrive in dentist -- all wifi in area is WPA. look at RSS feeds -- try to read some old feeds but 'empty' | 20:03 |
| *** ferulo has quit IRC | 20:03 | |
| gpd | browse some other rss feeds -- have face drilled -- make appointment -- realize that my google calendar is not on the device... | 20:03 |
| gpd | make joke to person about 'new technology ' | 20:04 |
| MDK | gpd: oh, so you're actually using the RSS reader? | 20:04 |
| gpd | get out palm pilot -- find the calendar on that -- schedule appointment | 20:04 |
| framerate | :( | 20:04 |
| lle | distributed PIM ;) | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | despite its many shortcomings, the 770 is the most useful handheld device I've ever used, while the palm was the best usability-wise | 20:05 |
| gpd | MDK: yes -- but I need to make it better when offline | 20:05 |
| framerate | On one hand I'm glad that the tablet has no organization software, but on the other hand I miss it | 20:05 |
| lardman | Someone fancy running an ieee754 (floating point) compliance test on an N800 please?: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks and choose paranoia.vfp.out. Or code here: http://www.netlib.org/paranoia/, compilation command in here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/compiling_things.txt | 20:05 |
| gpd | framerate: i agree - i love the device - and it wouldn't take much to make it KILLER | 20:06 |
| *** obergix[work] has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| framerate | gpd: I agree. Although I am kinda scared how much use it'll get come June when I get an iPhone .. o.O | 20:06 |
| gpd | something like iSync - or everything in google apps -- then sync for offline usage | 20:06 |
| framerate | I figure this will forever be my main GPS device and wifi hacking machine | 20:06 |
| framerate | but beyond that, I don't know.. | 20:07 |
| gpd | bah -- mine is now my only 'laptop' | 20:07 |
| gpd | i ordered the bluetooth keyboard - so i am going to make it fantastico | 20:07 |
| part | maemo needs a charismatic leader and a reality distortion field | 20:07 |
| koen | gpd: that's why I use gpe-calendar on the 770, it downloads the .ics file from webdav and stores it locally | 20:07 |
| framerate | well, I've needed to send in my macbook pro for a while. As soon as a few more apps come out for the nokia I'll be able to do that | 20:07 |
| gpd | even if it means using my oown python console apps to sync with ics, vcard etc | 20:07 |
| framerate | Which BT keyboard you mean gpd | 20:08 |
| *** ferulo has joined #maemo | 20:08 | |
| framerate | I'm considering that nerdy laser one, just for giggles | 20:08 |
| lle | part: that wouldn't hurt, but that reality distortion field requires actually delivering solid stuff every now and then | 20:08 |
| gpd | koen: yes -- i am looking forward to some more apps on n800 - but this is my experience out of the box -- to try and spur some nokia managers into action ;) | 20:08 |
| part | lle: no it doesn't, just look at apple | 20:08 |
| lle | part: apple has delivered, I've been very happy user of their stuff for a few years now :) | 20:09 |
| gpd | framerate: forgetabout those -- i got the sierra fullsize from amazon -- $81 | 20:09 |
| part | shiny! | 20:09 |
| lle | yup | 20:09 |
| framerate | I can't forget about it, it's too neat oO | 20:09 |
| lle | warm fuzzy feelings and all that | 20:09 |
| gpd | framerate: i heard they were almost entirely useless | 20:10 |
| *** Aleksandyr|afk is now known as Aleksandyr | 20:10 | |
| Jaffa | lo Aleksandyr | 20:10 |
| framerate | gpd: that sierra doesn't look too bad, though... | 20:10 |
| Aleksandyr | 'morning Jaffa | 20:10 |
| framerate | I ordered a 4Gb SD card today for 46 USD, I hear the N800 is recognizing them | 20:11 |
| framerate | gonna give it a shot | 20:11 |
| gpd | framerate: i'll let you know when it arrives -- i am hoping i will not be able to distinguish it from a desktop keyboard | 20:11 |
| gpd | i think i'll wait for the 8 or 16G -- 1G is enough for now | 20:12 |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 20:12 | |
| gpd | 2x16G would be /quite/ nice | 20:12 |
| MDK | hmm, is flash data easily recoverable? | 20:12 |
| gpd | anyway -- i suppose i should do some work--- ttyl | 20:12 |
| daniels | again, it only recognises non-sdhc cards. some 4gb cards are still byte-addressed, but it's a bit of a lottery. you need to patch the kernel to support 4gb sdhc, or anything > 4gb. | 20:13 |
| MDK | err, I mean... is it possible to recover erased/overwritten data from flash memory | 20:13 |
| MDK | (like it's possible on a hdd) | 20:13 |
| lle | MDK: yes, theoretically, but it's hard | 20:13 |
| MDK | lle: interesting. There was a case in .pl were a band of kids abused a school girl that later commited suicide | 20:14 |
| MDK | they managed to recover the video they recorded on a cell phone | 20:14 |
| lle | it's a bit similar to hard disks, the previous state is not entirely cleared on erase | 20:16 |
| *** Lateralus has quit IRC | 20:16 | |
| lle | but you need quite low level access to the hw | 20:16 |
| lle | of course simply removing a file from the fs doesn't necessarily even erase the blocks | 20:17 |
| lle | so recovery can be trivial | 20:17 |
| lle | so if you're planning to commit a crime, don't document it on a jffs2 filesystem | 20:21 |
| lle | even if you overwrite the file, you may not actually overwrite anything on the actual flash | 20:21 |
| lle | due to wear leveling | 20:21 |
| MDK | ah | 20:21 |
| MDK | so it "cycles" the blocks to even the electric access? | 20:22 |
| *** _k-s_ has joined #maemo | 20:22 | |
| lle | yeah, in a way yes | 20:22 |
| * lle is not really a filesystems guy, just happened to sit next to someone who did work with jffs2 | 20:23 | |
| MDK | hah, yeah | 20:24 |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 20:25 | |
| *** hub has joined #maemo | 20:25 | |
| *** whegge has joined #maemo | 20:25 | |
| *** bedboi has joined #maemo | 20:26 | |
| *** florian_kc has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| *** Guardian has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| *** Lateralus has joined #maemo | 20:36 | |
| *** waite has left #maemo | 20:37 | |
| tko | ferulo, btw, did you get the video app working? | 20:38 |
| ferulo | we have not coded anything yet :) | 20:38 |
| tko | I meant the gtk on windows one | 20:38 |
| ferulo | ahh, it worked, but I was not able to do a videocall, maybe because my laptop lacks of webcam? | 20:39 |
| ferulo | I could bring mine tomorrow to the office | 20:39 |
| ferulo | however it is funy that a win32-gtk app does not run un linux under wine :) | 20:39 |
| tko | I'm curious whether there's a linux version somewhere | 20:39 |
| MDK | my gf succesfully got it working on xp | 20:40 |
| ferulo | not here http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/ | 20:40 |
| MDK | though, if you don't have a webcam, it will not work | 20:40 |
| MDK | err, it'll work with just sound | 20:40 |
| MDK | in other words -- if only one person has camera, no video is shown to anybody | 20:41 |
| MDK | which sucks | 20:41 |
| ferulo | I didn't even get sound... | 20:41 |
| MDK | even if it's a protocol limitation, the app should be smart enough to send "blackness" or something | 20:41 |
| MDK | is the app open-source? | 20:42 |
| tko | http://www.extraneo.it/goatse/images/sfondo_05.jpg ha ha :) | 20:42 |
| daniels | MDK: nope, it's not | 20:42 |
| daniels | MDK: it's not a protocol limitation, btw | 20:42 |
| ferulo | tko: you know that we are not going to click on anything with the goatse word, don't you? :) | 20:42 |
| tko | ferulo, I know you want to :) | 20:43 |
| *** philn has quit IRC | 20:43 | |
| ferulo | ok, I did!!! | 20:43 |
| *** knowledge is now known as Knowledge | 20:45 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|gone | 20:45 | |
| *** fab_ has joined #maemo | 20:46 | |
| *** bilboed has quit IRC | 20:47 | |
| *** HGFB2 has joined #maemo | 20:48 | |
| *** rebe_ has quit IRC | 20:51 | |
| *** benzea has quit IRC | 20:51 | |
| *** kosola has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| *** kosola has joined #maemo | 20:53 | |
| *** rebe_ has joined #maemo | 20:57 | |
| *** shackan has joined #maemo | 20:57 | |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 21:00 | |
| Milhouse | Why does the blue LED around the d-ped flash when the device is locked? | 21:01 |
| glass_ | coolness i suppose | 21:01 |
| Milhouse | hmm.. :) | 21:01 |
| tko | because it can | 21:02 |
| framerate | because geeks love blue glowy things :) | 21:02 |
| Milhouse | I like them to have meaning - what does that make me? | 21:02 |
| framerate | hmm. | 21:03 |
| tko | normal? | 21:03 |
| framerate | a smart geek? | 21:03 |
| roope | it blinks when it is connected to the charger. | 21:03 |
| Milhouse | no charger in site | 21:04 |
| Milhouse | sight | 21:04 |
| roope | Well. It's the bat signal. | 21:04 |
| Milhouse | battery power, connected to wifi but no email accounts configured - blink... blink... blink... | 21:04 |
| Milhouse | To the bat cave? | 21:04 |
| roope | Yes.' | 21:04 |
| Milhouse | Ok, that is cool :) | 21:05 |
| tko | I think it blinks to indicate there's still battery left | 21:06 |
| Milhouse | On the whole, I think the N800 is a great improvement so far (although the buttons on the top are just crap - what muppet with tiny fingers designed those, eh?) And to lock the device - which you now need to due to lack of case - it means pushing a tiny and *recessed* button. Genius. Other than that, great upgrade. | 21:06 |
| Milhouse | and what happens when there's no battery left???! | 21:07 |
| tko | it stops blinking, of course | 21:07 |
| tko | duh | 21:07 |
| Milhouse | no way... that's so cool | 21:07 |
| Milhouse | ;) | 21:07 |
| roope | yeah, locking is too hard currently. | 21:08 |
| Milhouse | needs a dedicated hard button or shortcut, but not one of those on top | 21:08 |
| tko | only a little bit IMO | 21:08 |
| Milhouse | i may be able to train my fingers in time | 21:08 |
| Milhouse | not sure about the theme - Plankton in Sardine looks better (a bit more candy/vista/aqua-like) | 21:09 |
| tko | it's good the power button is embedded but it's a little bit too small | 21:09 |
| Milhouse | that wouldn't be a problem if it weren't now so important | 21:10 |
| HGFB2 | Has anyone had a problem installing an app on the 770 where afterwards clicking the icon in extras does nothing? | 21:15 |
| *** bilboed has joined #maemo | 21:17 | |
| framerate | which app HGFB2 ? | 21:17 |
| HGFB2 | Nethack | 21:18 |
| framerate | nethack works for me | 21:18 |
| framerate | downloaded from the application catalog and put it on my SD card | 21:18 |
| framerate | and then ran the .deb file | 21:18 |
| konttori | How about configuring home key keep pressed 3 secs to lock. click home and select to unlock? | 21:18 |
| HGFB2 | It used to work for me too. It's obviously a bug somwhere on the 770. I had the same problem when I first got it installing FBreader | 21:19 |
| Milhouse | kontorri - that, or maybe a double click of home key | 21:19 |
| HGFB2 | Wonderful. I think my charger has died | 21:19 |
| konttori | Milhouse: I think there needs to be to separate keys / elements there so that accidental unlocking in pocket is not so frequent | 21:27 |
| konttori | Maybe home and slide finger on screen? | 21:27 |
| tko | maybe power and select button? | 21:28 |
| Milhouse | knotorri - agreed... perhaps home + d-pad enter within 1 second to unlock? | 21:29 |
| framerate | konttori: slide finger for lock... someone watched the iPhone presentation :) | 21:29 |
| konttori | Who? | 21:29 |
| konttori | ;) | 21:29 |
| framerate | heh | 21:29 |
| konttori | Isn't the current setup like power + dpad middle? | 21:30 |
| Milhouse | yes | 21:30 |
| roope | oh shit, mine blinks also. | 21:30 |
| konttori | And that is troublesome on N800? | 21:30 |
| Milhouse | roope: hah! | 21:30 |
| Milhouse | :) | 21:30 |
| roope | Oh, yes. It indicates that the device is on. | 21:30 |
| Milhouse | kontorri: the power button is very small, and recessed so fat-fingers Milhouse has a bit of a problem... | 21:30 |
| daniels | that's configurable, btw: go to the display settings (the little brightness icon in your system tray). | 21:31 |
| roope | (I'm not actually joking :) | 21:31 |
| *** pdz- has joined #maemo | 21:31 | |
| daniels | roope: yeah, this is standard n series behaviour, apparently. the n70 or so behaves the same. | 21:31 |
| konttori | So, then home + dpad would be better. Or any top key + dpad middle | 21:31 |
| roope | Yes, as does my n73. And they all suck bigtime. | 21:31 |
| Milhouse | i thought I read it flashed if you had new email ? how would you know if it flashes all the time anyway? | 21:31 |
| roope | my e61 does it much better: it only blinks with new messages. | 21:31 |
| roope | it has a different frequency of blinking. ;) | 21:31 |
| daniels | roope: yeah, 'something happened' is far more interesting than 'still on' | 21:32 |
| roope | I would agree 100%. :) | 21:32 |
| guerby | hey you can reorganize the app menu on the N800 (control panel / Navigation / Organize), nice! | 21:32 |
| Pio | same on the 770 | 21:32 |
| *** NickDe has quit IRC | 21:33 | |
| Milhouse | knotorri - probably just two easily accessible keys that are not right next to each other would be good enough to unlock; how to lock though is tricker - to lock, maybe a loooong press (but not too long to be annoying) or an unusual usage pattern such as double click on home, or double click on the power button itself (it may be easy enough to double click it with practice - i just don't want to then have to pick an option from a menu) | 21:33 |
| tko | jobi, is it possible to disable the thumb sized menus in desktop? I'm starting to dislike the feature even more as I always use thumb + rocker :-/ | 21:33 |
| *** florian_ has joined #maemo | 21:34 | |
| guerby | Pio I don't see navigation, where was that on the N770 ? | 21:34 |
| guerby | tko what is "rocker key" ? | 21:34 |
| Milhouse | particularly when "still on" is sucking up juice (though i know the LED doesn't use much power, but still...) | 21:34 |
| tko | guerby, d-pad | 21:34 |
| tko | guerby, arrows | 21:34 |
| florian_ | re | 21:34 |
| roope | milhouse, yeah. | 21:34 |
| daniels | tko: just crank the thumb pressure threshold up | 21:34 |
| Pio | guerby, ill look.. yeah it might have been 'task navigation' or something... | 21:35 |
| roope | Keeping the system running to tell it to blink. | 21:35 |
| *** florian_ is now known as florian | 21:35 | |
| daniels | roope: tbf, it doesn't schedule any userspace tasks | 21:35 |
| Milhouse | guerby - in Control Panel | 21:35 |
| tko | daniels, ...and maybe use select to get the fkb .. might work | 21:35 |
| guerby | Milhouse, yep then? | 21:35 |
| daniels | tko: mm, true | 21:35 |
| tko | though I doubt the UI lets me set the threshold that high | 21:36 |
| Milhouse | in the 770 you had more limited ability to modify the menu | 21:36 |
| guerby | Pio, I have both a N770 a N800 I'm comparing :) | 21:36 |
| daniels | tko: you can write a trivial app to do so :) | 21:36 |
| Milhouse | it just said "Web" and "Organize" on the 770 | 21:36 |
| daniels | tko: though maybe it's easiest to just hack the menus to pop back into normal mode when you press an arrow | 21:36 |
| Pio | yeah its control panel -> Task navigator -> Organize | 21:36 |
| Milhouse | on the N800, you can swap Web and Contacts, as well as Organise | 21:36 |
| Pio | interestingly, up until scirocco, organize was spelt "organise" | 21:37 |
| guerby | Milhouse, still don't find organize on N770 weird | 21:37 |
| Pio | guerby, control panel -> Task navigator -> Organize | 21:37 |
| guerby | Pio, thanks! I didn't knew it was there after 10 month of use :) | 21:38 |
| Milhouse | guerby as pio says - it's last in the list | 21:38 |
| Pio | np.. yeah when i got my 770 i couldnt find it either, but i knew it must be there somewhere.. finally found it after an exhaustive search | 21:38 |
| Pio | i grew real tired of the 'extras' folder :) | 21:39 |
| *** shapr has quit IRC | 21:39 | |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 21:40 | |
| guerby | Pio mine just reached full height but not enough to bother the extensive search :) | 21:40 |
| Pio | hehe | 21:40 |
| guerby | anyway I found it right away on the N800, the control panel is a bit more friendly I find (small things...) | 21:40 |
| *** siti has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** pdz has quit IRC | 21:44 | |
| guerby | the thumb kb feels much more accurate on the N800 (even with N770 setting to lowest pressure) | 21:44 |
| guerby | may be it's my 770 screen that's more dirty, anyone sharing the experience? | 21:45 |
| Pio | i always just figured my fingers are too big heh | 21:47 |
| guerby | Pio me too on N770 but it looks like N800 just works fine | 21:48 |
| tko | hmm, the nokia tileset for nako is pretty boring | 21:51 |
| framerate | tko: agreed. The extra one isn't too bad | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | what's nako? the new game in os2007? | 21:58 |
| framerate | it's just a memory game | 21:58 |
| tko | mgedmin, it's available in the default application installer repository configuration | 21:59 |
| tko | maemoblocks is the new game | 21:59 |
| * mgedmin imagines a memory game where you have to match pictures of nokia phone models | 22:00 | |
| daniels | mgedmin: and also multimedia computers | 22:00 |
| daniels | ;) | 22:00 |
| lle | daniels: at some point after you get back from LCA I'm going to demo sb2 to you | 22:02 |
| daniels | lle: okay | 22:02 |
| daniels | lle: will it do debian packaging by then? ;) | 22:03 |
| lle | daniels: hopefully not :) | 22:03 |
| daniels | heh | 22:03 |
| daniels | okay, sure | 22:03 |
| daniels | though if i'm going to xdc, you'll have a day (if that) before i turn around and head straight back out for another week or os | 22:04 |
| * jtra is now deciding whether to port his old (1998) game to n770 with ruby or python | 22:04 | |
| lle | daniels: ;) | 22:04 |
| *** tzz has joined #maemo | 22:06 | |
| tzz | hello all, quick question about scratchbox 1.0 | 22:06 |
| tzz | the #scratchbox channel had no one active | 22:07 |
| lardman | fire away, if someone can answer they will | 22:07 |
| tzz | I run sb-conf ls -t and there's no CPU transparency options listed. Do I need to install something else? | 22:07 |
| tzz | I installed everything in the scratchbox repository already | 22:07 |
| tzz | [sbox-MYTARGET: ~] > sb-conf ls -t | 22:08 |
| tzz | [sbox-MYTARGET: ~] > sb-conf ls -T | 22:08 |
| tzz | MYTARGET | 22:08 |
| tzz | [sbox-MYTARGET: ~] > sb-conf ls -S | 22:08 |
| tzz | /dev/pts/8:10858 10876 | 22:08 |
| tzz | [sbox-MYTARGET: ~] > sb-conf ls -d | 22:08 |
| tzz | perl | 22:08 |
| tzz | debian-sarge | 22:08 |
| tzz | doctools | 22:08 |
| tzz | debian | 22:08 |
| tzz | [sbox-MYTARGET: ~] > sb-conf ls -c | 22:08 |
| tzz | arm-linux-ct401-2.3 | 22:08 |
| tzz | cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm | 22:08 |
| tzz | arm-linux-cs344-2.3 | 22:08 |
| tzz | cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 | 22:08 |
| trenka | tzz: could you post cat /dev/random here? | 22:08 |
| tzz | arm-linux-2006q1-6 | 22:08 |
| tzz | i686-linux-ct4.1.0-2.3.6tls | 22:08 |
| lardman | ~pastebin | 22:08 |
| tzz | host-gcc | 22:08 |
| tzz | arm-gcc3.4-uclibc0.9.28 | 22:08 |
| tzz | arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 | 22:08 |
| tzz | 22:08 | |
| tzz | Debian Etch system | 22:08 |
| tzz | heh seriously now | 22:08 |
| Fatal | heh? | 22:09 |
| lardman | tzz: trenka's point was that you shouldn't flood the channel, use pastebin or similar | 22:09 |
| tzz | ah OK. Sorry. Haven't used IRC since 1996. | 22:10 |
| Fatal | back then it was even worse, many were on modem | 22:11 |
| tzz | OK, I'll ask scratchbox-users, thanks | 22:13 |
| framerate | anyone have a downloadable .deb for xterm that works on the N800? | 22:15 |
| framerate | My N800 can't get online except the 3 hours I'm at my house :( | 22:15 |
| Milhouse | Media Player on the N800 has a bug - shows a 256kpbs VBR track as 128kbps... and in the Clip menu, putting "Delete" as the first option probably isn't a good idea (I've clicked it twice now by mistake in only a few minutes!) | 22:16 |
| Milhouse | still played the 256kbps track btw | 22:17 |
| *** kender has joined #maemo | 22:20 | |
| kender | hi | 22:20 |
| ferulo | Milhouse: report the bug! | 22:20 |
| Milhouse | will do, it's only a minor cosmetic issue though - doesn't affect playback | 22:21 |
| Milhouse | i did scratch my head and think: "How the hell did that bug slip through..." | 22:21 |
| Milhouse | unless everyone tested with 128kbps tracks :) | 22:21 |
| pahartik | Milhouse: MPEG ADTS AAC track? | 22:22 |
| kender | I ordered today the n800, soon a new maemo user and developer :) | 22:23 |
| Milhouse | MP3 | 22:24 |
| tzz | Another question: which target should I use for Scratchbox 1.0? The tips on the Scratchbox website say to use glibc and not uclibc, but there's no arm*glibc* toolchain. | 22:24 |
| tzz | s/target/compiler/ | 22:24 |
| *** qgil has joined #maemo | 22:26 | |
| whegge | Does anyone know what I need to get added to my Verizon Wireless phone to get the 770 surfing the web via my cell phone? | 22:26 |
| framerate | whegge: I'm in the same boat via cingular | 22:27 |
| framerate | can't figure out how to hack it for what I have, and they want 74.95 a month for the full on data plan | 22:27 |
| dwd | Generally, you need Bluetooth DUN on the phone, plus some form of data plan. | 22:27 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 22:27 | |
| dwd | framerate: What currency is that? | 22:27 |
| framerate | I can use what I have now to get on via a script on my macbook, basically fools cingular into thinking it's the handset dialing out when it's actually my laptop :) | 22:28 |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 22:28 | |
| framerate | USD, sorry | 22:28 |
| framerate | (REAL expensive for the slow EDGE network) | 22:28 |
| dragorn | depends on the provider. In the US, if you have verizon and "get it now" (nearly all phones do now from vzw) you can do 1xRTT speed data (5k up 20k down) for voice minutes | 22:28 |
| dragorn | with sprint you can to similar if you have a generic data plan | 22:29 |
| dwd | framerate: If the macbook works, the 770 should, I'd have thought. | 22:29 |
| * dwd pays 8 GBP for 10M of GPRS. Never really gets used. | 22:29 | |
| framerate | dwd: well that's my problem. The macbook requires a script to work. OSX has a field for "modem scripts" | 22:29 |
| framerate | without the script, I think cingular knows it's not the handset dialing out | 22:30 |
| dwd | framerate: Ah... You could always hack what the Maemo scripts are doing. | 22:30 |
| framerate | yeah but 1) I can't find where the scripts are located and 2) my xterm stopped working | 22:30 |
| hub | alp: you there? | 22:31 |
| framerate | and I can't get online at work, they have a ipsec VPN set up :( | 22:31 |
| whegge | Thanks everyone for the responses. | 22:31 |
| alp | hub: hey | 22:31 |
| hub | alp: wekit-ui does not install | 22:32 |
| hub | alp: it is missing libxrandr2 and libxslt1.1 | 22:32 |
| alp | ugh. this is what happens when i have no 770 to test on :-\ | 22:33 |
| Aleksandyr | dragorn: that's actually a TOS violation on newer phones. | 22:33 |
| alp | randr is certainly not necessary, xslt probably is | 22:33 |
| Aleksandyr | dragorn: Phones that support EVDO are not allowed to tether, period, officially =/ however, they've yet to really check this on a large scale. | 22:34 |
| framerate | that's my main gripe with this thing... I'm only able to get online for the 3 hours before bed after work :( | 22:34 |
| framerate | but that's partially my fault I guess | 22:34 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: which IPSec VPN? | 22:34 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: what do you mean? | 22:35 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: Do you know the make and model of your VPN system? | 22:35 |
| c0ffee | re | 22:35 |
| alp | hub: i'll try to put together a fixed package, thanks for testing | 22:35 |
| framerate | I don't off hand, it's a large US University | 22:36 |
| framerate | I can use pptp or ipsec | 22:36 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: the branding on the PC client? | 22:36 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: ahh. pptp support exists already | 22:37 |
| framerate | openVPN? | 22:37 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: not quite. Fanoush's site is down, unfortunately | 22:38 |
| framerate | stinghorn VPN for 770 site has been down too | 22:38 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: I believe it's based on http://pptpclient.sourceforge.net | 22:38 |
| c0ffee | there's also the vpnclient | 22:38 |
| framerate | I really think they dropped the ball not including a one click VPN solution | 22:38 |
| c0ffee | i already registered a project at the garage for creating one :) | 22:39 |
| c0ffee | like half a year ago | 22:39 |
| myren | VPN is entirely network dependent | 22:39 |
| c0ffee | but during the last year i didn't have any free time at my hands | 22:40 |
| myren | ther'es twelve million ssl vpn systems, six million pptp, and a couple dozen IPsecs | 22:40 |
| c0ffee | well | 22:40 |
| c0ffee | include the existing free clients at least isn't too difficult | 22:40 |
| Aleksandyr | furthermore, WPA2 (which could be better supported) can be used in place of a VPN, in most places where I've wanted 770 VPN access. | 22:40 |
| myren | WPA2 dont let you tunnel, afaik | 22:41 |
| Aleksandyr | I got the impression that Fanoush had no trouble getting PPTP working. | 22:41 |
| myren | log on to public network, WPA2 into you home network? i dont think so? | 22:41 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: Many universities and corporations use VPNs to secure wireless networks instead of WPA2. | 22:41 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: it's not a matter of tunneling, there. | 22:41 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: as far as home network VPNing, Hamachi works great. | 22:41 |
| * Aleksandyr should probably fix up and release his Hamachi GUI. | 22:41 | |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: the university uses the VPN and I've been unable to come up with a way to get the N800 online | 22:42 |
| framerate | openVPN confused the heck out of me, and I've used linux for going on 6 years now | 22:42 |
| dragorn | framerate: Really? OpenVPN was the nicest one I've encountered. | 22:42 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: bug Fanoush to update his kernel modules and PPTP package, and you'll be in business shortly ;) | 22:42 |
| framerate | :) | 22:42 |
| Aleksandyr | Hamachi...how I love thee. | 22:42 |
| framerate | http://kb.iu.edu/data/akcx.html <- link to what linux requires for our school | 22:42 |
| myren | vpnc was the only client that worked back at my uni | 22:43 |
| myren | cisco 3000 vpn gear | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: yah, Fanoush build that. | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | s/build/built/ | 22:43 |
| dragorn | vpnc works with the cisco concentrators many .edus work | 22:43 |
| dragorn | s/work/use/ | 22:43 |
| framerate | I was able to get on with gentoo before but it wasn't very fun :/ | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | sadly, WPI's network requires WPA Enterprise support. | 22:43 |
| dragorn | except for some shared-secret configs | 22:43 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: I HIGHLY recommend gnome-network-manager --- shiny happy PPTP config. | 22:44 |
| *** obra has joined #maemo | 22:44 | |
| framerate | for desktop use? | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | oooh, does the N800 support WPA enterprise with certs and such? | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: yes | 22:44 |
| framerate | I normally use fluxbox only, but I dont mind having gnome installed... | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: quite literally made getting on to my corporate PPTP network a five-second procedure. | 22:44 |
| framerate | so I'll check into it if I get my linux laptop working again :) | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: you sound like my gentoo-lovin' co-worker, who I converted ;) | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: while you're checking out gnome, try Beryl too :D | 22:45 |
| framerate | haha uh oh... | 22:45 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: converted from Fluxbox to Gnome. | 22:45 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: I don't have any X installs right now, so I'm new to all the new XGL stuff etc | 22:45 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: I just have two gentoo servers right now | 22:45 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: ahh. Beryl makes the setup relatively trivial, and it makes mac users cry. | 22:45 |
| obra | '$TIMEOFDAY. I'm a new N800 convert. I'm a bit bummed out at the state of ossomail as shipped in bora. Are there other mail clients I should be looking at? Or is it time to set up a dev environment and start submitting patches? | 22:46 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: I also have a macbook pro >.>. Why's that? | 22:46 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: makes Aqua look ugly ;) | 22:46 |
| framerate | haha | 22:46 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: Ossomail has been awful since its inception on the 770. There are no fully hildonized mail clients available: I get the feeling most of us use webmail. | 22:47 |
| framerate | Did anyone every try the stinehorn VPN? One click connections in the screenshots.. looked exactly what I want :( | 22:47 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: Telomer and Sylpheed do exist for the 770, however. | 22:47 |
| obra | Aleksandyr: urk. I often end up reading my mail when I'm entirely out of network range. Yeah. slypheed's UI is..really painful on 800x480. | 22:48 |
| obra | I'd not managed to get telomer running last night. but it _was_ 4am ;) | 22:48 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: welcome to my world ;) | 22:48 |
| obra | heh. | 22:48 |
| *** mallum has joined #maemo | 22:49 | |
| Aleksandyr | I wrote an -extremely experimental- solution to the problem, but Telomer's supposedly the same and is Much more elegant. | 22:49 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 22:49 | |
| obra | There are 4 or 5 small changes that would make ossomail a lot more usable for me. delete-without-confirm dialog. zoomable font sizes in lists and NOT MIXING ALL MY ACCOUNTS INTO ONE INBOX | 22:49 |
| Aleksandyr | on the other hand, Telomer did not earn me an A in my Mobile Networking and Applications grad class. | 22:49 |
| obra | heh | 22:49 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: I believe all three of those have been on the bugzilla since inception. | 22:49 |
| * obra nods | 22:50 | |
| Aleksandyr | I am not aware of anyone who uses ossomail as a primary client on the 770. | 22:50 |
| framerate | is ossomail the one included in OS2007? | 22:50 |
| Veggen | I've ended up on webmail. | 22:50 |
| * obra is very much more of a client-server person than a GUI person. It'd probably be good for me to learn a bit more about building guis on hildon | 22:51 | |
| Veggen | (so far) | 22:51 |
| obra | framerate: yes | 22:51 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: yes | 22:51 |
| obra | ossomail is better than the Series60 default client. barely | 22:51 |
| framerate | ew | 22:51 |
| Aleksandyr | part of the reason I'm hacking so fervently at PhoneME is because I want the GMail Mobile client. | 22:51 |
| obra | PhoneME? | 22:51 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: J2ME | 22:53 |
| obra | Nice | 22:53 |
| Aleksandyr | specifically, the open source version thereof | 22:53 |
| Aleksandyr | however, it lacks a GTK native peer --- just has QT/Embedded and MicroWindows | 22:53 |
| Aleksandyr | and supposedly the Microwindows native peer is broken and unmaintained | 22:53 |
| * obra nods | 22:53 | |
| obra | as much as java makes me sad, it's certainly a decent answer for "get prepackaged mobile apps" | 22:53 |
| myren | how long is it going to tkae to get a N800 if i order from Nokia.com? | 22:54 |
| myren | evidently nokia decided no one in denver would want to buy one at a store | 22:54 |
| *** shackan_ has joined #maemo | 22:54 | |
| *** shackan has quit IRC | 22:55 | |
| obra | myren: you've physically been to your local compusa? | 22:55 |
| myren | no. | 22:55 |
| obra | they seem to have them but not know about them. | 22:55 |
| myren | i've physically been to THREE stores | 22:55 |
| framerate | obra: very true | 22:55 |
| framerate | store manager told me WE DO NOT HAVE ANY | 22:55 |
| framerate | I told her they did. | 22:55 |
| obra | compusa[Bthre compusas? | 22:55 |
| framerate | so she rudely looked it up and found it | 22:55 |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 22:56 | |
| tzz | I ordered my N800 yesterday. 2-day shipping is free, should be here Thursday or Friday. | 22:56 |
| obra | two hardwareish questions: oh. did anyone ever commercialize the USB booster that would let me use a usb keyboard with an 800? And is there a USB charging option? | 22:57 |
| myren | hrm thats acceptable enough | 22:57 |
| myren | hmm battery powered usb hubs | 22:57 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: 1) no 2) not AFAIK. | 22:58 |
| Aleksandyr | obra: 2) is not possible through the USB port, at least. | 22:58 |
| *** bedboi has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
| * obra nods. thanks | 23:00 | |
| *** konttori has joined #maemo | 23:01 | |
| guerby | I paired successfully nokia bluetooth keyboard SU-8W with my N800, but for exotic characters I want to use the virtual keyboard, any idea on how to activate it? | 23:02 |
| guerby | when the bt keyboard is on it looks like virtual disappears completely | 23:02 |
| mgedmin | you could create a ~/.matchbox/kbdconfig and bind a couple of keys on the BT keyboard to maemo-gtk-im-switch xim/maemo-gtk-im-switch osso-input-method | 23:05 |
| mgedmin | when the virtual keyboard is active you cannot type with a regular (USB or BT) keyboard | 23:06 |
| Aleksandyr | how does one get dbus-send --session to work in scratchbox? I keep getting "Unable to determine the address of the message bus" | 23:06 |
| guerby | mgedmin, looks interesting, I'll try to lookup doc on matchbox/kbfconfig (never used before) | 23:10 |
| mgedmin | guerby: I found it on the maemo wiki | 23:11 |
| guerby | mgedmin, I found a bruteforce method: close the keyboard, then the virtual kbd appears, then reopen the keyboard :) | 23:11 |
| *** HGFB2 has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:12 | |
| *** vittorio has quit IRC | 23:19 | |
| guerby | did anyone try dropbear or ssh on the N800 ? | 23:20 |
| guerby | (xterm too) | 23:20 |
| Aleksandyr | guerby: there is a working version of xterm: I forget which, but it's on the wiki now under OS 2007 | 23:21 |
| tzz | Bah, without the CPU transparency I can't even try to compile anything on scratchbox. This is frustrating, I was hoping to start writing code. I couldn't run Scratchbox 0.9.8 because my kernel was too new, now 1.0 is annoying me. Does anyone have a working 1.0 setup on a Debian machine? | 23:21 |
| guerby | Aleksandyr, hmm Application2007 is empty | 23:22 |
| kender | any wiki page, where appears the default apps that the n800 carry? | 23:22 |
| *** mlpug has quit IRC | 23:22 | |
| Aleksandyr | guerby: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 23:22 |
| suihkulokki | tzz: I've seen someone else complain about dialog errors in sb, but it was unclear what caused it (wrong terminal settings?) | 23:22 |
| guerby | Aleksandyr, thx, I don't see ssh/dropbear | 23:23 |
| suihkulokki | tzz: but you can use sb-conf for everything you would need sb-menu | 23:23 |
| tzz | you mean the "dialog-like error 3" error? I had that one earlier today, because I had no toolchains installed. | 23:23 |
| guerby | kender, what app do you want to know? | 23:23 |
| Aleksandyr | guerby: but xterm is there ;) | 23:23 |
| guerby | Aleksandyr, yes :) | 23:24 |
| kender | guerby, Terminal, but....others too, a list only | 23:24 |
| kender | hehe | 23:24 |
| lle | tzz: you should have a cputransparency devkit package installed | 23:24 |
| guerby | kender, it's pretty much the same as N770 I'd say for the default install | 23:24 |
| tzz | lle: the problem was that I can't select a CPU transparency, there's no QEMU entry as the install docs show. Where can I get that package? I don't see it in the Scratchbox repo. | 23:24 |
| kender | guerby, the problem is, that I'm a new user, without 770 hehe ::) | 23:25 |
| guerby | kender, there is a video windows in the internet call of course :) | 23:25 |
| lle | tzz: I think all of the cpu transp mechanisms come in the single debian package | 23:25 |
| guerby | kender, ah ok | 23:25 |
| suihkulokki | apt-cache search cputransp | 23:25 |
| suihkulokki | scratchbox-devkit-cputransp - CPU transparency methods | 23:25 |
| suihkulokki | $ | 23:25 |
| guerby | kender, let me see if I can get a dpkg -L | 23:25 |
| kender | guerby, great! | 23:25 |
| tzz | ah I see it, excellent! | 23:26 |
| lle | :) | 23:26 |
| framerate | I wish nokia would let us test the navicore and skype software :( | 23:26 |
| c0ffee | you can buy navicore | 23:26 |
| tzz | it wasn't in the install doc, and I didn't think to search for it. | 23:26 |
| framerate | well not for the N800 yet | 23:27 |
| c0ffee | i think it's just the same | 23:27 |
| kender | any shoot of navicore? | 23:27 |
| framerate | tableteer has a email link to sign up for the news when N800 version is released | 23:27 |
| tzz | lle: what compiler do you use in 1.0? | 23:27 |
| lle | tzz: uhh, I don't use 1.0 :) | 23:27 |
| framerate | c0ffee: does it come with BT GPS? because I already ahve one :( | 23:27 |
| c0ffee | the software? | 23:28 |
| c0ffee | i think yes, it's a package | 23:28 |
| framerate | dang :( | 23:28 |
| c0ffee | but i'm no nokia guy | 23:28 |
| c0ffee | dont take my word for truth | 23:28 |
| tzz | lle: ok, I'll keep using uclibc as I have so far. The scratchbox tips say to use glibc instead of uclibc, but there's no arm-*-glibc* compiler. Thanks for the help! | 23:29 |
| *** Gluz has joined #maemo | 23:29 | |
| framerate | I hope they offer software only... or maybe maemo mapper will be as awesome as I hope :/ | 23:29 |
| lle | tzz: I'm not sure which toolchain people use with sb1.0, somebody here on this channel ought to know | 23:30 |
| *** _k-s_ has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
| *** _k-s_ has joined #maemo | 23:31 | |
| tzz | lle: not so far, I'll keep asking. Thanks again. | 23:31 |
| c0ffee | tzz, there is one on maemo.org | 23:31 |
| c0ffee | ehrm | 23:31 |
| c0ffee | even on scratchbox.org | 23:31 |
| c0ffee | scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm-1.0.4-i386.tar.gz | 23:31 |
| Milhouse | can flasher-2 be used with a n800 to set r-d mode? flasher-3 won't work on a DSL LiveCD (missing libusb.so) | 23:31 |
| c0ffee | flasher-2.0 needs libusb as well | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | will there be a statically linked version of flasher-3? | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | flasher-2 is static so works fine | 23:32 |
| c0ffee | ah, ok | 23:32 |
| c0ffee | why don't you just get a libusb from somewhere? | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | guess i can try copying from my suse box | 23:33 |
| lle | what sort of box do you have if it doesn't come with libusb? | 23:33 |
| Milhouse | i just have visions of spending the next three hours copying one library at a time... | 23:33 |
| Milhouse | DSL LiveCD | 23:33 |
| lle | hehe :) ok | 23:33 |
| *** Imrahil has joined #maemo | 23:33 | |
| c0ffee | why not using your suse box? | 23:34 |
| Milhouse | usb works fine on it - just happens to be missing this library as flasher-3 is not statically linked any more... dunno what other libraries might be missing | 23:34 |
| tzz | c0ffee: I wasn't sure I should be using that one, the install docs say to use arm-* targets. Thanks. | 23:34 |
| Milhouse | c0ffee - pain in the arse getting all the cables to reach... it's an old server mobo... prolly the easiest option for the time being though :) | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | tzz, what docs are you following? | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | tzz, mine contain a list of files to grab, and next you execute some shell script that does the rest | 23:35 |
| guerby | kender, downloading xterm... | 23:35 |
| Milhouse | however - could someone at Nokia put together a statically linked version of flasher-3? all previous versions have been statically linked and worked like a charm | 23:35 |
| kender | guerby, :) | 23:35 |
| tzz | http://scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/installdoc.html | 23:35 |
| Milhouse | not now obviously, but some time in the near future would be nice :) | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | tzz, do you want a general scratchbox, or a maemo installation? | 23:36 |
| tzz | N800 only, reaaly | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html#settingup | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | then follow this | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | you just have to ignore any error/warning that pops up :) | 23:37 |
| obra | c0ffee: it seems to leave out a step about how to start Xephyr | 23:38 |
| obra | (as I was just walking through the same thing) | 23:38 |
| c0ffee | why? | 23:39 |
| c0ffee | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html#Installing-Xephyr | 23:40 |
| c0ffee | just copy & waste | 23:40 |
| obra | lovely. thanks. I apparently can't read | 23:40 |
| tzz | c0ffee: that's very helpful. I looked at the Scratchbox docs first and they were really inaccurate. I'll try the Maemo 3.0 tutorial. | 23:40 |
| * gpd notes that the application manager seriously needs select boxes | 23:40 | |
| guerby | kender, the list is here: http://guerby.org/ftp/dpkg-n800.txt | 23:41 |
| kender | :D | 23:41 |
| kender | thanks a lot | 23:41 |
| kender | guerby, I'll put it in the wiki, are you agree? | 23:41 |
| guerby | kender, xterm, nako and media player were installed | 23:41 |
| guerby | kender, no problem. My blog is public domain :) | 23:41 |
| kender | :) | 23:42 |
| guerby | (explicitely) | 23:42 |
| guerby | kender, and I'm in gcc/MAINTAINERS | 23:42 |
| guerby | (FSF paperwork) | 23:42 |
| kender | :D | 23:42 |
| *** Imrahil has quit IRC | 23:42 | |
| *** epx has quit IRC | 23:43 | |
| guerby | I still don't have ssh on my N800, surprising no one listed which package to use (I had to sent the list by email attachment to get it out of my N800) | 23:43 |
| *** pdz- is now known as pdz | 23:44 | |
| kender | hehe | 23:44 |
| Jaffa | obra: Sylpheed's default views aren't particularly useful at 800x480, but if you use a smaller fonted theme and turn off the message preview it gets better. Obviously I'm still working on it, though, when I get a chance. | 23:45 |
| kender | guerby, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2007 | 23:45 |
| guerby | after a few hours of use, no crash, feels fast and responsive (clearly above N770) | 23:45 |
| guerby | kender, great :) | 23:45 |
| guerby | when I do top: 108MB used 18MB free 63MB cached | 23:46 |
| kender | guerby, so, you are 770 developer? | 23:46 |
| obra | Jaffa: ah. very cool. I was running into a lot of "GTK widgets are just too fat" | 23:46 |
| guerby | kender, no (I could but I'm lazy) | 23:46 |
| kender | hehehe | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | obra: there are a number of "12pt" themes floating about. At some point I'll see if I can hardwire and add zoom to the Sylpheed font sizes. | 23:46 |
| kender | guerby, Fonera, I see in your blog | 23:46 |
| * gpd installs GPE... imports vcards... proceeds immediately to grin mode | 23:47 | |
| kender | guerby, nice gadget, if you open it's ssh, it is very powerful | 23:47 |
| guerby | kender, I have a free wifi in addition to FONera | 23:47 |
| kender | I see | 23:47 |
| obra | Jaffa: excellent. is there an OS2007 native build I should be playing with? I suspect that what I installed is...somewhat out of date | 23:47 |
| guerby | kender, on my N770 I have openvpn + vncviewer, all my family machines are Linux and on the openvpn, so I can control all of them graphically from my N770 (and soon N800) | 23:47 |
| kender | :D | 23:48 |
| kender | that sounds great | 23:48 |
| guerby | kender, ubuntu guyes were nice enough to fix https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/70986 | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | obra: The latest version is still the one at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed - the source is in Subversion if you wanted to do any hacking | 23:48 |
| guerby | so that N770 vncviewer does work for ubuntu edgy | 23:48 |
| guerby | kender, I use it mostly while travelling to read PDF and saved HTML | 23:49 |
| kender | yes, I think I'll use it in the same way | 23:49 |
| obra | Jaffa: *nod* I'm just now attempting to get my first maemo development environment up...but suspect this will go smoother when I'm not doing it inside a Parallels VM. | 23:49 |
| obra | I can only take about two levels of virtualization before my eyes bug out | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | obra: probably :) | 23:49 |
| kender | guerby, and, in the city, in the university for example, to connect to internet a great option I think | 23:50 |
| obra | My big problem is that I usually live in a Perl webapp world, so this is rather a paradigm shift. | 23:50 |
| guerby | kender, I have also a bluetooth GPS, with maemo mapper + gmap downloads, it's fun | 23:50 |
| kender | guerby, I heard that it is :) | 23:51 |
| kender | guerby, do you know spanish? | 23:51 |
| guerby | kender, I was good about 9 years ago, now I can barely read it | 23:51 |
| kender | hehe | 23:51 |
| guerby | kender, where are you from in Spain? | 23:52 |
| kender | guerby, I'm from spain, that's why I ask you | 23:52 |
| kender | yes | 23:52 |
| kender | hehe | 23:52 |
| c0ffee | hey Jaffa | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | hiya c0ffee | 23:52 |
| guerby | kender, I spent my youth about 10 km from spanish frontier but nearly never went to spain (no man's land on the spain side, that's where the bears are, Ariege) | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: got a discount yet? | 23:52 |
| *** Tahitibob has quit IRC | 23:53 | |
| c0ffee | no | 23:53 |
| guerby | hmm where's the boot messages? dmesg is polluted | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | me neither | 23:53 |
| framerate | guerby: any chance you're running mapper on a N800? | 23:53 |
| kender | guerby, I'm from Basque Country, so, near france | 23:53 |
| c0ffee | it's still creaping me out | 23:53 |
| guerby | framerate, not listed yet as working on N800 | 23:53 |
| framerate | I know :( | 23:54 |
| framerate | thought maybe you had gotten it working :) | 23:54 |
| guerby | framerate, I'll be prudent for a few days new-app wise | 23:54 |
| *** greentux has quit IRC | 23:54 | |
| c0ffee | Jaffa, my software portfolio isn't anywhere as impressive as yours f.e. | 23:54 |
| c0ffee | Jaffa, so I decided to continue on my small projects, try to be a nice guy in general, and just wait | 23:55 |
| framerate | I bought this thing to use with my bt gps, so I'm just anxious :0 | 23:55 |
| obra | Jaffa: are you actually using your slypheed port day to day? | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | I suspect it's all a ruse to get everyone running about releasing stuff they're sitting on. | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | obra: not at the moment | 23:55 |
| *** Ryback_ has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
| guerby | framerate, :) | 23:56 |
| guerby | framerate, at least bt keyboard works :) | 23:56 |
| framerate | Very true :) | 23:57 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: well...it's working? :D | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: indeed | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | Talking of which... mud-builder has just built it's first succesful port. | 23:57 |
| Aleksandyr | actually, people requesting updates and giving me feedback is what's lighting a fire under me at the moment | 23:57 |
| *** stanlly has joined #maemo | 23:57 | |
| Jaffa | I said "go build cal from Debian please" and it did. | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | can't say I'm familiar with the app | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | `cal' just prints a calendar for a year: it was a nice noddy one with not too complex dependencies which wasn't already in Maemo | 23:59 |
| framerate | Aleksandyr: well I request you to fix maemo-mapper and VPN software ;) | 23:59 |
| Aleksandyr | no, I meant mud-builder, I do get some use from cal + conky ;) | 23:59 |
| * framerate knows he didn't write them | 23:59 | |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: maemo-mapper is gnuite's baby, and he's hacking on it. VPN software has already been done by Fanoush, and I'm sure he's going to recompile soon ;) | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
