| koen | tigert: after upload: [ ] automatically upload [ ] prompt for info [x] do nothing | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tigert | myren: you can hack your own cable anyway | 00:00 |
| rev | suihkulokki: i mean, i can see pin layout being the same, but some chipset difference... | 00:00 |
| tigert | myren: how big would you want the device to be?? | 00:00 |
| myren | tigert: its not stereo though, is it? | 00:00 |
| myren | i just want stereo. :/ | 00:00 |
| tigert | dunno about stereo mic if you mean that | 00:00 |
| myren | stereo headphones | 00:00 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: is this Doom video trailer watchable by the way? | 00:00 |
| * Tak was looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_digital#SD_and_SDHC_-_compatibility | 00:01 | |
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| gpd | qgil: did you find wikipedia offline content? I was looking last night but only found a windows version | 00:01 |
| daniels | tigert: btw, the flickr plugin for the n70 or whatever works a treat on the n90 | 00:02 |
| Disconnect | ssvb yah looks pretty good | 00:02 |
| daniels | tigert: even supports double res | 00:02 |
| daniels | tigert: the only things you can't do are tag (bah!) and set private | 00:02 |
| daniels | er, privacy | 00:02 |
| Disconnect | some twitching | 00:02 |
| tigert | daniels: nice | 00:02 |
| Aleksandyr | gpd: It seems that a KDE app called Knowledge fits the bill | 00:02 |
| tigert | daniels: I need to try the webcam stuff | 00:02 |
| Disconnect | and the stereo speakers are noticable | 00:02 |
| tigert | I tried briefly but couldnt make it work yet | 00:02 |
| tigert | the stereo speakers, while fun, are actually quite good considering its a handheld device | 00:03 |
| tigert | it works nicely as a desk netradio | 00:03 |
| tigert | for last.fm for example | 00:03 |
| tigert | too bad flash stops when it dims the screen :P | 00:03 |
| tigert | someone could write a "undim" app that just pokes the dimming api like maemo mapper does | 00:04 |
| Aleksandyr | tigert: power management still sucks? noooooo | 00:04 |
| qgil | gpd, not yet - thet Knowledge seems to be discontinued at least for Ubuntu (they refer to Hoary, no clue about it in the Edgy repos) | 00:04 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: http://developer.kde.org/~danimo/knowledge-static-22M.tar.bz2 doesn't work for you? | 00:04 |
| Tak | and a "dim" app as well | 00:04 |
| Tak | that would be a good applet, come to think of it | 00:04 |
| Aleksandyr | why not roll dim/undim into a system status bar widget? | 00:04 |
| gpd | qgil: Aleksandyr I found a tomeRaider database too -- not sure about that | 00:05 |
| tigert | Aleksandyr: or that | 00:05 |
| Tak | two buttons, like the canola one: "Dim Now" , "Don't Dim Until Poked" | 00:05 |
| * Disconnect taps his foot and waits for video conversion | 00:05 | |
| Aleksandyr | I'd like it if I could toggle brightness, dim settings, and network disconnect settings from a single status bar dropdown | 00:05 |
| Tak | in fact, I'll probably do that next time I get some hacktime | 00:05 |
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| Aleksandyr | qgil: download from that link, install libpng3, and you should be OK | 00:07 |
| qgil | gpd: well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TomeRaider_database has packages per language which is great because my neighbour will be probably happy qwith those 62Mb in Sopanish | 00:07 |
| kender | online video converter, is open source? | 00:07 |
| rev | Jaffa: what do i need to do to add your bookmarklet? i went to your page, click-and-held and simply did "add bookmark" to add it, went to a youtube page and selected it; i got a blank white page with the loader spinner spinning but nothing happened. it worked fine when i manually pasted in the link into the url of yoursite/submit.cgi?url=http://videourl | 00:07 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: I'm pretty sure mplayer can be optimized for n800 and play video better | 00:07 |
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| gpd | qgil: yes - that is what i found - but not sure if tomeraider is supported by any aps on tablet | 00:07 |
| rev | qgil: though no reader for TomeRaider on the 770 | 00:07 |
| Jaffa | rev: hmm | 00:07 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: agreed | 00:08 |
| daniels | ssvb: the best video performance you'll get out of the n800 will come through xv in a future sw update | 00:08 |
| gpd | what are we calling the collective 770 and 800 these days? | 00:08 |
| rev | Jaffa: do i need to add the bookmark in another way? | 00:08 |
| daniels | gpd: 'internet tablets' | 00:08 |
| qgil | gpd, rev, I'm going to give to my neighbour an old PC I used a couple of years ago that won't be moved to Finland :) | 00:08 |
| roope | 785 +- 15 :s | 00:08 |
| rev | gpd: the non-shitty linux pda! (the crappy one is the zaurus) | 00:08 |
| Tak | lol @ roope | 00:08 |
| rev | qgil: ah cool | 00:08 |
| Tak | | 00:09 |
| florian_ | re | 00:09 |
| Disconnect | rev: c760 wasn't bad | 00:09 |
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| Jaffa | rev: no, that's how I've done it. | 00:10 |
| gpd | dudes -- we totally need Wikipedia Offline -- HHGG all the way | 00:10 |
| Veggen | but I'd definitely like more PDA functionality on the tablet. | 00:10 |
| rev | Disconnect: i thought it was | 00:10 |
| Tak | ± | 00:10 |
| Veggen | especially syncing etc. | 00:10 |
| rev | Disconnect: the software blew, way worse than the 770, even though the 770 isn't meant for use as a PDA | 00:10 |
| disq | do you know how fast can the n800 access our old mmcmobile cards? on par to the default 770? kernel image upgraded 770? faster? | 00:10 |
| Jaffa | rev: I'll just test it again | 00:11 |
| rev | Disconnect: like Veggen said there isn't syncing really, but i personally don't use that functionality on any pda ... but the zaurii were disapointing as hell, imho | 00:11 |
| Veggen | I'd like to sync the address book towards my desktop *and* my cell phone, for example. | 00:11 |
| Veggen | rev: Can be useful. | 00:11 |
| Aleksandyr | AbiWord, MaemoTube, PhoneME (Java in general), and WikiPedia offline. Anything else you guys would like me to work on? ;) | 00:11 |
| Disconnect | only pda i ever got syncing was OZ/c760 (and, sorta, my 9300i. but its a serious hack) | 00:12 |
| rev | Veggen: i can see that, i just don't need it... i keep PIM stuff on my phone and that's it | 00:12 |
| Veggen | rev: which you can easily lose anywhere :) | 00:12 |
| bmidgley | Aleksandyr: I feel a little guilty I haven't got more bluetooth audio done--why don't you do that too? | 00:12 |
| Tak | if you're going to carry around phone and n785±15 anyway, why not just enter pim data into one or the other? | 00:13 |
| ssvb | daniels: that's good, I also have plans to try getting xv work on 770, looking into OS2007 xserver and xv sources may help with that | 00:13 |
| Veggen | (granted, you can with the internet table too - that's why you'd keep a copy on your desktop) | 00:13 |
| rev | Veggen: well, i have a fancy, expensive phone, and if i lost it i would be pretty much up shit creek... but that said, i just do a database dump and ftp to back up my PDA, no matter the OS it's running. the phone i'm using now is WM5. but like i said, no need for syncing when you have net access. | 00:13 |
| rev | Veggen: i mean, ftp'ing a backup file isn't the same as a sync if you want to use it like you do | 00:13 |
| keesj | I want internet over audio | 00:13 |
| Disconnect | Jaffa: any sources for vidconvert? its queue is annoying me ;) | 00:13 |
| Tak | hmm, I'm going to have to look into using xv with fceu/xmame | 00:13 |
| daniels | ssvb: won't work in its current form unless you add support for multiple planes to the | 00:14 |
| rev | Veggen: i don't need to access my PIM data on my computer or another device, so simply backing up the files works just fine | 00:14 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode | 00:14 |
| daniels | ssvb: 770, but the x server will run unmodiifed | 00:14 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: Hmm, I've wanted A2DP for ages. Sure :D | 00:14 |
| Disconnect | cool :) | 00:14 |
| daniels | ssvb: (it just won't have xv support) | 00:14 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: I can bundle up the queue processing & CGI component if you'd like | 00:14 |
| Aleksandyr | ...we have Plucker support on the 770, right? | 00:14 |
| Disconnect | that'd rock | 00:14 |
| * Aleksandyr seems to recall this | 00:14 | |
| Jaffa | rev: hmm, it seems you're right. I remember having problems before, I thought they'd been solved. | 00:14 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: yep | 00:15 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: want to test ftp://ftp.wizzy.com/pub/wizzy/palm/Wikipedia.pdb? | 00:15 |
| Veggen | better PDF reader. We need that. | 00:15 |
| rev | Veggen: that said, the PDF reader on the 770 is hands down the best PDA PDF reader around | 00:15 |
| rev | with the exception of the stuff from Picsel | 00:15 |
| rev | but that is OEM only, you can't buy or download the Picsel viewer or browser | 00:16 |
| Aleksandyr | Veggen: between evince and the builtin, I think PDF improvements are low on the totem pole | 00:16 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/vidconvert.tar.gz | 00:16 |
| rev | but the other PDF readers available for Palm OS and Pocket PC blow goats | 00:16 |
| rev | compared to the 770's builtin PDF reader | 00:16 |
| Aleksandyr | Adobe's own releases suck out loud, comparatively. | 00:16 |
| rev | big time | 00:16 |
| rev | i am very happy with the 770's PDF reader | 00:16 |
| Jaffa | rev: aha - if you press enter in the URL bar once the bookmarklet has loaded, it works. | 00:16 |
| rev | i mean, i wish it had text flowing and saved what page you were on, but at least it is useable- unlike the offerings on PPC and Palm | 00:17 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: a patch to not re-encode a URL it's already got would be *much* appreciated. | 00:17 |
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| Disconnect | not tonight but yah i can take a look at that | 00:17 |
| rev | the app i used to use for reading PDFs on my Dell Axim was actually not a PDF reader... | 00:17 |
| qgil | gpd, rev, Aleksandyr, ferulo: well, this is probably a simplest option: http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/November_2006/ | 00:18 |
| rev | it'd be nice if that existed on the 770, but it needs a host PC, and i like keeping my PDAs completely independent | 00:18 |
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| Aleksandyr | qgil: I was just about to link that. | 00:18 |
| Veggen | rev: it tended to crash for me :) | 00:18 |
| Veggen | (for large PDFs) | 00:18 |
| rev | qgil: you could write some scripts to process that pretty easily | 00:18 |
| rev | Veggen: ahh, i've not had the problem, but i don't open really huge PDfs ... mostly i read various commie newspapers via PDF | 00:19 |
| rev | Veggen: i'd never read a book using a PDF reader, just because PDF readers suck so bad | 00:19 |
| ntrs | can one connect to a 770 or 800 via ssh through the USB cable? | 00:19 |
| qgil | rev: no "I" could not ;) but they are a buch of static html pages, isn't it | 00:19 |
| Tak | zomg I knew all you minnesotans were commies after you elected jesse ventura! :-P | 00:19 |
| rev | qgil: i mean *one* could | 00:19 |
| rev | Tak: haha | 00:19 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: yes, they are, which kind of limits things. | 00:19 |
| rev | RepliGo! that's the app i used to use on PPC | 00:19 |
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| Aleksandyr | I kind of want to get away from HTML | 00:20 |
| qgil | Aleksandyr: not fro,m the point of view of a neat 11 year old schoolgirl without computer nor internet connection | 00:20 |
| rev | Aleksandyr: and use what? | 00:20 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: I was talking about wrt the 770. For your needs, it'd be fine :D | 00:20 |
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| Aleksandyr | rev: dynamically generated HTML, or just dynamically generated rich text | 00:21 |
| Aleksandyr | rev: HTML markup adds a -pile- of overhead. | 00:21 |
| rev | RepliGo is what mobile PDF readers should be like ... problem is, it doesn't open PDFs but its own format- you have to convert to .rgo on a PC, but it does text flowing really well, it does zooming well, and it even remembers what page you were on- something that no other damned PDF reader does, a lack of a ffeature that is required for use as an ebook reader | 00:21 |
| rev | Aleksandyr: true | 00:21 |
| qgil | ooook, sorry Aleksandyr :) | 00:21 |
| ntrs | Is network connection via usb possible on the 770 or 800? | 00:21 |
| rev | i'd be willing to pay $75 for Picsel Browser on the 770 | 00:21 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: apology not necessary, I should have been clearer when I switched horses midthought ;) (and metaphors) | 00:21 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: that pdb's coming down awfully slowly | 00:21 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: yes, but it's kind of annoying: look up USBNet on maemo.org | 00:21 |
| rev | that is a nice PDF (and MS Office, HTML) reader for Palm OS, WinCE and Linux | 00:21 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: it's only 44mb | 00:22 |
| rev | but it strictly OEM | 00:22 |
| rev | which is moronic | 00:22 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: it's at 5% | 00:22 |
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| * Jaffa knows a couple of the Picsel develoeprs | 00:22 | |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: I'm being silly...go ahead and cancel | 00:22 |
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| Disconnect | ssvb: aspect is screwey | 00:23 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, thanks. | 00:23 |
| Disconnect | and av sync is drifty but that might be the converter | 00:23 |
| gpd | sorry for faq - but where is info on 'new image for n800' - i have the .bin but no docs | 00:23 |
| Disconnect | gpd: same command as 770 flashing | 00:24 |
| daniels | i wish this build would friggin' hurry up so i can go home. | 00:25 |
| gpd | Disconnect: what about release notes for the image? | 00:25 |
| Disconnect | gpd: nokia.com | 00:25 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: the other thing which could be done with VidConvert which would streamline it is have the download and the conversion happening at different times (e.g. two queues in different threads) | 00:26 |
| Disconnect | yah | 00:26 |
| Pio | you cant really upgrade between maemo releases without re-flashing, right? i absent-mindedly let apt try and upgrade me to scirocco from mistral and got all hung up on libc6 not having a post-installation script.. i figure now I'll just go ahead and flash a scirocco image.. right? | 00:26 |
| Jaffa | Easy to do too, but I've had so little feed back on it I figure people aren't bothered. | 00:26 |
| Disconnect | Pio: correct | 00:26 |
| Pio | ok thats what i figured, thanks | 00:27 |
| ntrs | can I download debs directly from the repos? | 00:27 |
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| Jaffa | Disconnect: it's amazing the crap people put in, though. Currently there are two queue entries containing the same <embed .../> bit of HTML, which is *never* going to work. Sigh. | 00:28 |
| Jaffa | Perhaps 770/800 users should be bumped up in the queue, too ;-) | 00:28 |
| Disconnect | heh fun | 00:28 |
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| gpd | for reference: info on new n800 image is: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 | 00:30 |
| rev | Jaffa: hey, you're the man- hitting stop and hitting enter makes it work just fine! | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | rev: For that, I can blame Opera :) | 00:30 |
| * Jaffa beds. G'night. | 00:30 | |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: some time zone you've got there. 'night | 00:30 |
| Disconnect | night! | 00:30 |
| * Aleksandyr may have found a rather hackish but functional way to load wikipedia into FBReader. So much for sleep | 00:31 | |
| ntrs | where are the actual debs in the repos? | 00:31 |
| ntrs | I can't seem to find them using a browser | 00:31 |
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| rev | Jaffa: yeah, seems like an opera problem | 00:32 |
| * qgil goes to reflash himself - good night! | 00:32 | |
| rev | is there an OS 2007 for the 770? | 00:32 |
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| rev | is it a worthy upgrade? | 00:32 |
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| ntrs | rev, OS 2007 is only on N800 | 00:33 |
| rev | ah, ok | 00:33 |
| rev | oh well | 00:33 |
| Aleksandyr | drat. Won't work. The search problem is too nontrivial | 00:36 |
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| bstock | anyone have copies of the dropbear-key and dropbear-server files? all the howto gain root pages say to download them from http://nohar.nerim.net/n770/ and that site seems to be down | 00:41 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: I got dropbear from the ApplicationCatalog2006 earlier today without issue, did you try there? | 00:43 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: at that point it's just sshing is as user:root and password:rootme, probably | 00:43 |
| Aleksandyr | *sshing in | 00:43 |
| tigert | and changing the password to something else | 00:45 |
| tigert | now, good night! | 00:45 |
| bstock | well i can't seem to gain root.. sudo su doesn't seem to work, sudo gainroot wants rnd mode | 00:45 |
| bstock | but yeah the gnupg dropbear file complains about wrong architecture i think.. lemme try again | 00:46 |
| myren | has anyone tried sending the N800 higher bitrate movies? | 00:46 |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 | 770 updates will continue but Bora (OS2007) is not backported" | 00:46 | |
| myren | maybe the DSP got bumped too? | 00:46 |
| Disconnect | bstock: becomeroot works on n800 | 00:47 |
| bstock | i'm on 770 | 00:47 |
| Disconnect | (gainroot hasn't ghanged) | 00:47 |
| daniels | i don't know about other formats, but you can put 400x288 mpeg4 movies through at a bit over 25fps on the n800. | 00:47 |
| Disconnect | works there too | 00:47 |
| bstock | if i go to file details on the dropbear from AppCat2006, it says 'Unable to install. Package is incompatible with current software' | 00:48 |
| bstock | and it won't let me change password for user or root | 00:48 |
| bstock | (i just upgraded to 2006.2 btw.. had everything working in 2006.1) | 00:49 |
| dwd | bstock: What software is on the 770? OS2006? | 00:49 |
| bstock | yeah | 00:49 |
| dwd | Oh. | 00:49 |
| dwd | bstock: Got a terminal? What does apt-cache show dropbear-sshd (or whatever the package is called) say? | 00:50 |
| bstock | 'apt-cache search dropbear' returns nothing | 00:50 |
| dwd | Oh, not in a repository, of course. *sigh* Did you download it to somewhere? | 00:51 |
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| |tbb| | what for a chipset the wlan built in from n800 have | 00:51 |
| bstock | ok i think i figured out why i suck.. hold on | 00:51 |
| * dwd is always tempted to suggest typing bin before downloading - showing my age again. | 00:53 | |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: I've used that knowledge no less than three times today. Thanks for making me feel ancient ;) | 00:53 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Didn't think anyone used good old FTP, these days. :-) | 00:54 |
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| myren | daniels: thats sweet to know. thats definate improvement over the 770. 400x288 is definately reasonable resolution. | 00:54 |
| daniels | myren: bear in mind that's 400x288 scaled to full screen. | 00:55 |
| myren | right. | 00:55 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: it's cheap, easy, and supported by Solaris without any fiddling. Therefore it's the de facto at work | 00:55 |
| Aleksandyr | ironically Solaris is neither cheap nor easy. | 00:55 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: And don't I know it. | 00:55 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Sometimes I do stuff with people at Sun, and take great delight in suggesting they upgrade their computers to Linux. | 00:56 |
| myren | Solaris? its free now. so long as you dont support. | 00:56 |
| dwd | myren: Doesn't make it good... | 00:56 |
| myren | Solaris's zones are _stunning_ | 00:56 |
| dwd | myren: Okay, fair point, they're quite nifty. | 00:56 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: this is legacy-ish Solaris we're talking about. | 00:57 |
| |tbb| | anyone knows what chipset the wlan card of the n800 uses? | 00:57 |
| myren | the fact taht linux has ditched trying to make itself isolation worthy and skipped straight to virtualization is indicative of how shite the linux environment really is | 00:57 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: being forced to use Solaris has made me debate quitting more than eight times in three months. | 00:57 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: SunOS sucked ass. we had some 32 and 64 bit risc crap back at uni from sun. | 00:57 |
| dwd | myren: Well, if you're thinking Xen, that's pretty nifty too. | 00:57 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: agreed! | 00:57 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Oh, Solaris positively glows next to HP-UX, trust me. | 00:58 |
| myren | Xen is INSANELY nifty, but its created largely becaues unix never made a proper environment for itself! | 00:58 |
| Aleksandyr | mmm Xen. | 00:58 |
| myren | if unix had zones 6 years ago, xen would be basically irrelevant for servers. | 00:58 |
| Aleksandyr | I would argue that user-driven change has been wholly inappropriate in large portions of the linux community, but meh ;) | 00:58 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: i agree. :) | 00:58 |
| myren | like this desktop war thing? | 00:58 |
| myren | fuck that | 00:58 |
| myren | i'm joking, but at the same time i'm deadly serious. | 00:59 |
| Aleksandyr | note to self: port fluxbox to maemo | 00:59 |
| dwd | myren: Dunno - Xen does the VM live migration thing which frankly makes me want to keep wooden stakes at the ready. | 00:59 |
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| myren | dwd: i dont know what that means (wooden stakes) but its awsome. | 00:59 |
| Aleksandyr | multiple window managers? Good. Multiple incompatible windowing toolkits? Brutally retarded | 00:59 |
| dwd | myren: Things used to kill the undead and other freaky stuff. | 00:59 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: I started using wmii recently. its in the ion/ratpoison/we consume your whole screen vein. very groovy, wonderfully keyboard abled. | 00:59 |
| Aleksandyr | mmmm keyboard | 01:00 |
| myren | I just think desktop is besides the point.... | 01:00 |
| myren | IF YOU DONT HAVE GOOD NETWORKING | 01:00 |
| Aleksandyr | hah | 01:00 |
| myren | we've sacrificed all development to make linux the supreme god of networked OS's it should be | 01:00 |
| myren | and instead decided to spend years building fucking START MENUS | 01:00 |
| myren | FUCK YOU!!!!!! | 01:00 |
| Aleksandyr | months building start menus | 01:00 |
| daniels | myren: settle ... | 01:00 |
| Aleksandyr | years arguing about the merits of different start menus. | 01:00 |
| myren | ok ok... breathing... breathing. | 01:01 |
| Aleksandyr | imagine your rage is a white ball of healing light | 01:01 |
| dwd | myren: For the most part, it's pretty good at networking. Although I'm told that NFS isn't that good. | 01:01 |
| Aleksandyr | that's right, your rage as a white ball of healing light ;) | 01:01 |
| Tak | to be fair, the people that have been arguing about/building start menus aren't the same people (generally) that would be improving network os status | 01:01 |
| myren | dwd: there's zero infrastructure. | 01:01 |
| Tak | nor would you want them to be | 01:01 |
| Aleksandyr | NFS is one of the worst ideas I've seen in some time :D | 01:01 |
| Pio | whats nfs have to do with linux | 01:01 |
| myren | if you have 12 linux computers, you have to hand script each one for every service you want | 01:01 |
| dwd | Pio: It does it. Apparently quite slowly. | 01:01 |
| Pio | faster than smb.. | 01:02 |
| daniels | btw, this is rather off-topic, so could we please not clutter the scrollback still further? | 01:02 |
| dwd | Pio: But slower than, say, Solaris doing the same thing. | 01:02 |
| myren | we had Active Directory like technologies YEARS ago but its always been a nasty hack job | 01:02 |
| myren | its not about what protocols you pseak | 01:02 |
| myren | its about hte infrastructure you have in place so that once you're talking you can start enguaging in useful transactions | 01:03 |
| Aleksandyr | my fault. Generating noise until inspiration strikes and I figure out how to get a2play to work. | 01:03 |
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| |tbb| | any1 got a n800 in here? | 01:03 |
| myren | |tbb|: lol. i imagine someone does. :) | 01:03 |
| Tak | what's an n800? ;-) | 01:03 |
| daniels | Tak: it's okay, they actually exist now | 01:03 |
| sp3000 | does it make coffee? | 01:03 |
| |tbb| | plz tell me what wlan adapter chipset it uses | 01:03 |
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| Tak | they don't exist until I get my DDP email :-P | 01:04 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: same as the 770. | 01:04 |
| |tbb| | sure? | 01:04 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: kismet works out of the box, what more do you want ;) | 01:04 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: allegedly it's the exact same chip. | 01:04 |
| |tbb| | atheros :) | 01:05 |
| bmidgley | Aleksandyr: a2play is pretty gross. if maemo has libalsa, a2dpd would be better | 01:05 |
| bmidgley | i wrote a2play | 01:05 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: 1) thank you for writing it 2) maemo doesn't have alsa, and alsa-plugin vanished =/ | 01:06 |
| bmidgley | nokia did say they wouldn't write a dsp task for the encoder | 01:06 |
| |tbb| | Aleksandyr do u familar with gpsd and kismet? | 01:06 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm trying to get a2play/a2recv working on my laptop for debugging purposes. | 01:06 |
| bmidgley | so maemo will use libsbc | 01:07 |
| bmidgley | ok sure | 01:07 |
| Aleksandyr | libsbc looks like it'll do the trick, and the gstreamer sink ought to be pretty easy | 01:07 |
| Aleksandyr | throw in a couple userspace config tools to make it pretty. | 01:07 |
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| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: yyyyyyyes, after a fashion | 01:07 |
| bmidgley | be sure to get libsbc from its own sf project | 01:07 |
| bmidgley | not the version under btsco | 01:07 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: already done ;) I read your notes | 01:08 |
| |tbb| | do u know how to import the logged data into maemo-mapper? | 01:08 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: can't say that I do. I've never used maemo-mapper's POI system. | 01:08 |
| Aleksandyr | (I wasn't aware it -had- one.) | 01:08 |
| |tbb| | so u dont need gpsd with kismet then i think | 01:09 |
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| bmidgley | i use gpsbabel to convert gps formats | 01:09 |
| Aleksandyr | last I heard, kismet on the 770 requires GPSD in order to log GPS information | 01:10 |
| |tbb| | is it possbible to import the collected data to navicores navi system | 01:11 |
| Milhouse | fck me the rants on ITT are beginning to piss me off | 01:12 |
| Aleksandyr | honestly, I rather like reading them, but I wish they'd stop going so OT | 01:13 |
| * pahartik attempts to write simple GUI application for Maemo in Python | 01:13 | |
| Aleksandyr | pahartik: feel free to PM me if you have any questions. | 01:14 |
| Milhouse | now we have people with 2 posts who bought a 770 three weeks ago going ballistic when everyone pretty much knew a new device was around the corner. Sympathy? I think not. | 01:14 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: everyone, in this case, being limited to people who actively follow the 770 user groups. | 01:14 |
| Milhouse | Shit happens in the gadget world - this situation isn't exactly unique | 01:14 |
| bmidgley | buy it when it's brand new or not at all :) | 01:15 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: exactly! I got to have the most cutting-edge internet tablet for two whole years ;) | 01:15 |
| bmidgley | i'll be selling my 770 and getting an 800 soon :) | 01:15 |
| disq | yeah it's starting to piss me off as well | 01:15 |
| Aleksandyr | too bad the 770's resale value is hosed now | 01:15 |
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| bmidgley | yeah | 01:16 |
| bmidgley | the big leap in capabilities will do that but that's what we all wanted, right? | 01:16 |
| Milhouse | Makes me wonder if it would be cheaper for Nokia to buy off the few people with 770s who are complaining - i imagine the number isn't huge, although impossible to stop everyone jumping on the bandwagon! | 01:16 |
| |tbb| | then give it cheap to a good friend and share using a n device | 01:16 |
| dwd | pahartik: You can grab me for help, too. | 01:16 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: I can run the same linux kernel on five generations of processor. | 01:17 |
| Aleksandyr | bmidgley: same version of windows, too, for what that's worth | 01:17 |
| Milhouse | Aleksandyr: Are you talking about embedded devices though - or full blown PC's? | 01:18 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: I'm talking about desktop processors. As far as embedded devices, Windows CE supports a fairly impressive set. | 01:18 |
| Milhouse | Try running WinCE 5 on a device that came with WinCE 2 | 01:18 |
| disq | is there a new price for the (brand new) 770's yet? | 01:18 |
| Aleksandyr | disq: no discount yet, no | 01:18 |
| Milhouse | I could only just get WinCE 5 to run on an iPAQ HX4700 (640Mhz X-Scale) which came with WinCE 2003SE (previous version to WinCE5) | 01:19 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: that's a factor of corporations wanting you to buy revised hardware, not a software limitation. | 01:19 |
| disq | they must've dropped the price 6 months ago | 01:19 |
| Milhouse | WinCE 5 performance is pretty crap - but that's just down to shoddy software | 01:19 |
| * florian is impressed.... firefox makes my 2gb ram machine swap | 01:19 | |
| Aleksandyr | hrm, my co-worker's HX4700 runs WinCE5 quite nicely. | 01:19 |
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| Milhouse | florian: there's a firefox bugzilla for that somewhere | 01:20 |
| Aleksandyr | well, quite nicely by windows standards :D | 01:20 |
| * sp3000 blames flash | 01:20 | |
| disq | my firefox not only eat up ram but also sometimes "clogs" and won't load a new page/document unless i kill it and run a new instance | 01:20 |
| Aleksandyr | I actually installed a restart firefox extension that saves and reloads my session | 01:21 |
| Aleksandyr | it drops me from 400MB used to 120MB used on a fairly regular basis now. | 01:21 |
| bmidgley | my complaint with gadget progress is when i can't get rid of the old one | 01:21 |
| Milhouse | In a way I can see where everyone is coming from - we all want the latest and greatest - but Nokia have promised ongoing OS support for 770s so I'm not entirely sure why everyone is so bent out of shape (developers I have more sympathy with) | 01:21 |
| bmidgley | eg the public transit app for utah only runs on pre-WM5 devices | 01:21 |
| bmidgley | need a palmos emulator for n800 | 01:22 |
| Aleksandyr | the situation simply -blows- for developers, and that's going to trickle down to the 770 users shortly. | 01:22 |
| Aleksandyr | fgs there's a new method of packaging that only works with the 800 and won't be backported. | 01:22 |
| Aleksandyr | by 800, I mean maemo3. | 01:22 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: New packaging? | 01:23 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: the new one-click-installer thingy. | 01:23 |
| disq | Milhouse: same here. so no os2007 big deal, the 770 is slow as hell for serious tasks anyways | 01:23 |
| bmidgley | i'm surprised it's so harsh, but maintenance takes resources | 01:23 |
| disq | does it really blow for developers? didn't have time to check the new sdk/toolchain and all | 01:24 |
| bmidgley | it will be sad that maemo-mapper work for example will be split into two branches | 01:24 |
| Milhouse | I think we need to let Nokia think about this for a bit longer to formulate an official response somewhere - poor old Texrat is doing his best to calm people down | 01:24 |
| Pio | you can get root with openssh just as easily as dropbear right? | 01:25 |
| Aleksandyr | ...actually, I'd call Texrat an inciter, but that's me ;) | 01:25 |
| Pio | i used dropbear before as specified in the maemowiki, but i figure openssh would work exactly the same right? | 01:25 |
| Aleksandyr | Pio: openssh by default blocks remote root login: gotta tweak a config file. | 01:25 |
| Pio | ohh | 01:25 |
| Milhouse | Too many people on ITT are taking comments out of context and jumping to conclusions (some accurate, as it would seem as Ari has stated no OS2007 on 770) | 01:25 |
| Pio | hmm | 01:25 |
| Pio | thanks | 01:25 |
| Aleksandyr | Pio: however, the becomeroot package works on OS2007, supposedly | 01:25 |
| Pio | this isnt 2007 :( | 01:25 |
| Pio | scirocco | 01:25 |
| Aleksandyr | Pio: it also works on 2006 ;) | 01:25 |
| Pio | ahh | 01:26 |
| Pio | yeah i never did try it before | 01:26 |
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| Milhouse | Aleksandyr: You might be right - he certainly liked to tease people prior to the N800 launch! However I suspect he might be regretting it all now :) | 01:26 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: For a moment, I thought you meant they'd moved from dpkg/APT. | 01:26 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: *shudder* | 01:26 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: lines like "Do you realize you contradicted yourself in your own post? :lol:" rarely win converts ;) | 01:28 |
| |tbb| | is the sound on the n8 much better than on the n7 | 01:28 |
| disq | so i take it the n800's screen is really physically different from the old one. | 01:28 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: reports say that it's not as loud, but that it's higher quality. | 01:29 |
| Aleksandyr | disq: supposedly the rainbow effect is gone | 01:29 |
| Aleksandyr | same resolution tho | 01:29 |
| disq | the only good thing about the old one was the high resolution/dpi (and maybe brightness levels) | 01:29 |
| |tbb| | what about the battery life? same as on the n7 | 01:30 |
| |tbb| | ? | 01:30 |
| lle | disq: the new one looks (to me) like film + glass whereas the old one was 2*film (for the touchscreen) | 01:30 |
| disq | lle: ah. good news then :) | 01:30 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: too early to call, I think | 01:31 |
| Aleksandyr | the worst part about the screen to me is that it always looks like it needs cleaning | 01:31 |
| myren | how is the brightness? | 01:31 |
| siti | awesome no rainbow effect :D | 01:32 |
| myren | some of the photos comparison i've seen, the n800 looks dimmer? | 01:32 |
| Aleksandyr | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28223#post28223 | 01:32 |
| Milhouse | thats a fault of most touchscreens thogh | 01:32 |
| myren | that could just be the coating | 01:32 |
| Milhouse | s/thogh/though | 01:32 |
| disq | i was just about to put up my 770 for sale. then i changed my mind. it's still too precious for me to sell for ~$150 or so, i'll keep it | 01:32 |
| Aleksandyr | yay conversational perl! disq: I'm going to hold on to it as well --- maybe lend it out or something. | 01:32 |
| Milhouse | pretty much every touchscreen device I own (nokia 770, phone W950i, ipaq hx4700) needs a wipe down within minutes... but then maybe i just have mucky fingers | 01:33 |
| Milhouse | i'm a bit of a hoarder - rarely sell gadgets! | 01:33 |
| Aleksandyr | I vaguely miss my 4700. Fun device. Way too many issues. | 01:33 |
| Milhouse | i put them back in their original boxes for safe keeping... sad really! | 01:33 |
| myren | there's no USB on the N800? | 01:34 |
| Milhouse | this channel is groundhog day | 01:34 |
| Aleksandyr | hahahahah | 01:34 |
| myren | same q again and again? yup. | 01:34 |
| Milhouse | :) | 01:34 |
| |tbb| | i read on internettablettalk - Nokia repiar center just gave me 240$ for my 770 | 01:34 |
| Milhouse | no USB, only Firewire. Sucks. | 01:34 |
| myren | suxor! | 01:34 |
| Aleksandyr | does this mean I get to strap my 770 into my passenger seat and drive off a cliff? :D | 01:34 |
| myren | firewire? wtf? | 01:34 |
| |tbb| | will they trade in? | 01:34 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: that was in lieu of getting a repaired device back. | 01:35 |
| |tbb| | k | 01:35 |
| myren | so, figure out a covert way of damaging your unit, and profit | 01:35 |
| Aleksandyr | covert, permanent way, because Nokia's going to be expecting shenanigans like this. | 01:35 |
| Aleksandyr | same thing happens with Apple, allegedly. | 01:35 |
| Milhouse | try attaching it to your fridge, as suggested by Nokia | 01:35 |
| siti | lol | 01:36 |
| Milhouse | it's got a magnet in the case - may be enough to hold it on | 01:36 |
| Milhouse | or not | 01:36 |
| * pahartik reads through http://maemo.org/platform/docs/pymaemo/python_maemo_howto.html | 01:36 | |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: experimental testing has resulted in a fresh ding on my case | 01:37 |
| Aleksandyr | it joins roughly 59 siblings. | 01:37 |
| Milhouse | try harder! :) | 01:37 |
| simon__ | wow, the n800 really seems to push activity within the maemo community | 01:37 |
| Milhouse | i reckon Nokia should have used the same CPU, same memory, no extra card slots or webcam in the N800 and all the recent buyers of 770's would be happy. | 01:38 |
| siti | Milhouse: good call ;) | 01:39 |
| |tbb| | lolol | 01:39 |
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| Milhouse | Everyone else would be thinking Nokia were nuts, but the few people who bought in the last few weeks would be very happy, and that's what counts. | 01:39 |
| siti | people are just being stupid, technology is like that you have to expect within two years your device/hardware is obsolete... | 01:39 |
| |tbb| | right | 01:39 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse, your concern for your fellow man is...notable? | 01:40 |
| dwd | Milhouse: Seriously, I think if Nokia were a little more positive about 770 software upgrades, I think they'd be *less* upset. | 01:40 |
| Milhouse | Just some of those rants - so over the top | 01:40 |
| Aleksandyr | rants being over the top? Yeah. No more ammo for them kplzthx ;) | 01:40 |
| lle | hmm, if people get upset you're typically doing at least something right | 01:41 |
| Aleksandyr | erk. I just said kplzthx. Shoot me. siti, we're not talking about people like me, who've been hacking on the thing for two years: we're talking about finding out your christmas present is obsolete on New Year's Day. | 01:41 |
| |tbb| | ive buyed the navkit some weeks b4 and know i cant use the holder if i would upgrade to n800 | 01:41 |
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| Milhouse | I think the Nokians here have seen how annoyed people are and will hopefully formulate a response and maybe some sort of hybrid build... but they need to be given a chance - the N800 is only just out, they've probably been slaving away on it for months and now everyone is having a wild old time over in Vegas. Not really the best time to respond to flak like this, I guess. Give them time. | 01:41 |
| Aleksandyr | I think the moral of the story is: Ari Jaaksi needs a PR guy. | 01:42 |
| Milhouse | An official Nokia blog post "We're looking into it" might help | 01:42 |
| Milhouse | Yep, the good Dr has certainly inflamed the situation | 01:42 |
| jtokash2 | wait, there is an update for the n800. ALREADY?! | 01:43 |
| dwd | Milhouse: Sure, but I think it wouldn't take a huge amount of foresight to think "Hey, if we release a new OS2007 based N800, then at least we ought to say it's coming soon for 770". | 01:43 |
| Milhouse | Texrat pretty much did that. But when do you say that, if you're going to say it? | 01:43 |
| Aleksandyr | jtokash2: ??? | 01:43 |
| *** jtokash2 is now known as jtokash | 01:43 | |
| siti | but the issue is they make all their money through selling the hardware | 01:43 |
| Milhouse | 2 months ago - and kill all sales of 770s already in the channel? | 01:43 |
| Milhouse | oh hang on - I misread | 01:44 |
| siti | so they can't support software for 5 years when they get no income from it | 01:44 |
| Milhouse | :) | 01:44 |
| jtokash | Software Edition 2007 version 2.2006.51-6 on http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800.php Mine is 1.2006.47-20 | 01:44 |
| Milhouse | I agree, some sort of formal post about possible OS 2007 builds for 770 would be a good idea. Perhaps Nokia didn't forsee this fuss - no, they definately didn't! | 01:44 |
| Aleksandyr | siti: of course they get income from it. They're losing quite a bit of money now, and once news sites pick up on it, they'll lose more. | 01:45 |
| Aleksandyr | they severely undermined product confidence at -launch- | 01:45 |
| siti | Aleksandyr: lose more? | 01:45 |
| Aleksandyr | losing potential sales, to be accurate. | 01:45 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Exactly. | 01:45 |
| Milhouse | The fuss over the 770s could be picked up and put people off buying N800s. Not good all round, really. Needs to be calmed down sooner rather than later, but most people probably are around to make the decisions. | 01:45 |
| siti | I just don't think it's that big of a deal | 01:45 |
| siti | it's not a $1000 device... | 01:46 |
| Milhouse | are==aren't | 01:46 |
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| dwd | siti: If you've had the 770 since around launch, and you're thinking of upgrading, it's not a big deal. If you've had it for a month and are told it's basically unsupported, it probably is. | 01:47 |
| |tbb| | will the prices drop for a n770 now maybe to 200euros from 350 what uthink | 01:47 |
| Veggen | mm, my guess is they're simply used to a thing being a short-lived thing, noone expects to upgrade functionality. | 01:47 |
| sxpert | who cares, it's source compatible | 01:47 |
| Veggen | Sort of like a....cell phone! | 01:47 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: that's not guaranteed. | 01:47 |
| Milhouse | They may have looked at how many they sold as well and thought any pain would be bearable | 01:48 |
| sxpert | yeah. cell phones get replaced every couple years on average around here (the time it takes for one to grow enough points to get a free replacement from their provider) | 01:48 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: they've mentioned quite a few whizzy new libraries for 2007, for one. | 01:48 |
| siti | I haven't had it since launch only about 8months and it was a pain to get hold of | 01:48 |
| siti | because they don't sell them here | 01:48 |
| myren | so so tempted to get a N800. :/ :/. otoh, i really want an OMAP3 cell phone. _blah_! | 01:48 |
| myren | i guess the N800 is a real mobile computer, and cell phones never will be. | 01:48 |
| myren | $400... ouch. | 01:48 |
| Veggen | myren: but Nokia isn't used to making real computers...really? | 01:48 |
| sxpert | myren, that's cheap, considering the N93 is over 700€ | 01:49 |
| glass_ | nokia mikromikko ftw | 01:49 |
| myren | sxpert: true enough. | 01:49 |
| myren | i guess my N800 would make a fine media center controller after I obsolete it to whatever superphone comes out in 2009. | 01:49 |
| sxpert | (that is, the non-subsidized price) | 01:49 |
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| myren | its awkward purchasing something with such a nebulous use case | 01:50 |
| sxpert | the N770 can already be used in that capacity | 01:50 |
| myren | N800 == mobile computer toy | 01:50 |
| Milhouse | I heard Nokia were doing some deals with cable ISP | 01:50 |
| Milhouse | s | 01:50 |
| siti | yeah maybe if/when wimax comes out they'll bring out a new version for it | 01:50 |
| siti | then it's not restrictive like cell phone networks | 01:51 |
| Milhouse | I think they tried that with the 770 - an ISP in Spain perhaps? Not sure how well that went. One of the reports for the N800 mentioned something similar. | 01:51 |
| siti | yet you can access stuff everywhere | 01:51 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: moreso when the current device has, well, issues. | 01:51 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, what issues ? | 01:51 |
| sxpert | works for me. does all I need | 01:52 |
| Milhouse | The N800 could make a good VoIP phone at home... bundle it with a wireless broadband package and it might work, assuming the customer has a clue about that kind of thing. | 01:52 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert, I still get semirandom crashes and nonresponds in Opera, the e-mail app is nigh-entirely useless, and a few other software glitches that irk me regularly. | 01:52 |
| Aleksandyr | of course, the maintenance release might address that. | 01:52 |
| myren | i mostly just want to run Mono on it | 01:52 |
| sxpert | I mostly run kismet :D | 01:52 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: they did that in the UK, I think. | 01:52 |
| myren | i have an entire computing environment i've been building in mono | 01:52 |
| Veggen | Hmm. Will the N800 support non-memory SD cards? | 01:52 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Don't think so. Not in UK. | 01:52 |
| Milhouse | I'm in the UK - never saw any marketing for it | 01:53 |
| myren | Veggen: very hard to tell. depends not only on drivers but on hardware as well. we just dont know. | 01:53 |
| Aleksandyr | hrm, I read about it in The Register, so that's why I associate it with the UK | 01:53 |
| Milhouse | Here we go - Wannadoo Spain: http://www.portablegadgets.net/article/163/wanadoo-spain-will-bundle-nokia-770-with-adsl-subscription | 01:53 |
| Milhouse | That's for the 770 | 01:53 |
| myren | lol. | 01:54 |
| myren | thats amazing | 01:54 |
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| myren | sometimes i think of dropping my cell provider and going VoIP. but american infrastructure is such shite. decent wifi is so hard to find. | 01:54 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: kismet + 770 = oohs and aahs at Defcon ;) | 01:54 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, hehe | 01:55 |
| sxpert | no kiddin' | 01:55 |
| myren | honestly i'll probably be using my cell phone provider for 3g net connection pretty soon, wifi is so bad. | 01:55 |
| Pio | is it unsafe to change 'user's shell? | 01:55 |
| Pio | to bash.. | 01:55 |
| keesj | Veggen, what are you thinking of? | 01:55 |
| sxpert | 3G is so fscking expensive here it's not worth it. I have a 10Mbytes monthly allowance, that would go like *poof* in a couple seconds or so | 01:56 |
| Veggen | keesj: doesn't it exist SD cards with GPS, with GSM, etc? | 01:56 |
| keesj | Veggen, I don't know | 01:57 |
| sxpert | the only thing I can get without being ass-raped is to watch some stupid mobile tv during the week end | 01:57 |
| Aleksandyr | I hate Verizon, but love the $15/mo 2.5G internet plan | 01:57 |
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| myren | Cingular has a $20/mo media-net unlimited plan that supposedly is quite good for teathering | 01:58 |
| myren | although i dont think you're supposed to teather, everyone does | 01:58 |
| |tbb| | will gizmo project work with the n800 for now? | 01:58 |
| myren | thats why i went with cingular. thats the _only_ reason i went with cingular. | 01:59 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: correct on both counts | 01:59 |
| lindi- | Pio: unsafe to memory usage i guess :) | 01:59 |
| Pio | heh, well if im going to use a shell, it might as well be big and bloated | 01:59 |
| myren | bah, we've a full 128mb of memory! bring it on!!! ;) | 01:59 |
| Aleksandyr | Pio: potentially risky, worst thing is probably a reflash. | 01:59 |
| sxpert | the 3 operators here need a 4th one to kick their collective ass | 01:59 |
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| |tbb| | and what about the navkit which i have purchased weeks ago? | 01:59 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: I hear Alltel's not entirely evil | 02:00 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: then again I realize I'm assuming you're stateside | 02:00 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, it's "orange", "sfr" and "bouygues" around here | 02:00 |
| Aleksandyr | ah. | 02:01 |
| sxpert | |tbb|, send it to me as an Xmas present :D | 02:02 |
| myren | i really wish there was good GPS software available for the Nokia N's | 02:02 |
| Veggen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card says that there exists SDIO standard, that's SD form factor slots that support other things than memory. | 02:03 |
| myren | its so sad that all the good software now comes packages with shitty hardware | 02:03 |
| sxpert | myren, what sort of GPS software do you think would be useful ? | 02:03 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: IIRC Tomtom works on the Ns? | 02:03 |
| myren | .. what?! | 02:03 |
| |tbb| | will it run on the n800? | 02:03 |
| Aleksandyr | Veggen: SDIO's been around for awhile..it's just not very good | 02:03 |
| myren | sxpert: i'd like direction finding software. its the only thing i'm not willing to hack together myself. | 02:03 |
| sxpert | ah. ok. | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | Veggen: very very low transfer speed. | 02:04 |
| myren | well that, and the teleatlas database is pretty hard to rip off. | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: not now, no | 02:04 |
| Veggen | Aleksandyr: ok. But would be useful for things like GPS. | 02:04 |
| sxpert | well, we, at http://www.openstreetmap.org are working on open maps. navigation sofware is due to follow | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | Veggen: bluetooth :D | 02:04 |
| |tbb| | what????? omg | 02:04 |
| myren | Veggen: unfortuantley it looks like BT is really the only device extension we have. :( :( :( :( :( | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: seen roadnav, I assume? | 02:04 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, yeay | 02:04 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: supposedly I'm working on that for the 770, but I've been deluged recently | 02:04 |
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| sxpert | Aleksandyr, heh. | 02:05 |
| myren | sxpert: many thanks if you work on osm. that is wonderful work. | 02:05 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, I've been attempting to work on a project of my own, maemo-surveyor... | 02:05 |
| myren | there's just so much data we'll never have access to that tom tom &all can utilize | 02:05 |
| sxpert | myren, thanks for the congrats. | 02:05 |
| Veggen | I do in theory work on osm. Anyone can do. | 02:05 |
| |tbb| | thats bad | 02:05 |
| |tbb| | i wont upgrade then | 02:05 |
| sxpert | myren, the data is all out there, waiting to be modelized | 02:05 |
| Veggen | However, 74 days of continous rain doesn't exactly encourage going out bicycling collecting data... ;-) | 02:06 |
| Aleksandyr | myren, google TIGER-line | 02:06 |
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| Veggen | (ok, not continuous, but rain every day, usually most of the day) | 02:06 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: maemo-surveyor? <googles> Nifty. | 02:06 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, only good for the US, and data quality leaves a lot to be desired | 02:06 |
| |tbb| | veggen do u have a clue how to import kismet logged data to maemo mapper? | 02:06 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert, true and true, but it's a start :D | 02:06 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, nothing to show yet | 02:06 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: I've consumed tiger data before. it was not fun. | 02:07 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert, I'm xreffing to what you're trying to emulate ;) | 02:07 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: libroadnav! :D | 02:07 |
| Veggen | tbb: sorry, no. My 770 is in for service because of WSOD. Gotta call and ask when it gets back, soon.... | 02:07 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, check trimble pro surveying software for their windows CE based gps-enabled thingie | 02:07 |
| Veggen | I think it might have been a mistake to hand it in locally :) I thought, "well, there exists local Nokia-certified shops...why not go for it, not having to handle shipping myself". | 02:08 |
| Aleksandyr | that would be the english translation of what I just said I did. Whoops :D | 02:08 |
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| * sxpert heads to bed, I guess | 02:09 | |
| sxpert | cat is waiting :D | 02:09 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert: hopefully short for Catherine ;) good night | 02:09 |
| |tbb| | anyone using xchat with n770 | 02:09 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: not right now, but yes. | 02:10 |
| sxpert | Aleksandyr, nah, nah... http://gallery.sxpert.org/v/cachou | 02:10 |
| |tbb| | have u got sounds on ur n | 02:10 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: nope, but I almost never turn sound on | 02:10 |
| Aleksandyr | sxpert, cute :D | 02:10 |
| sxpert | hehe | 02:10 |
| |tbb| | do u know where to setup password for nick regeistering | 02:12 |
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| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: I switched to irssi because xchat was too...I don't know, x-chatty, sorry =/ | 02:12 |
| |tbb| | irssi? | 02:13 |
| Aleksandyr | open source commandline chat client available for the 770 | 02:13 |
| myren | xchat is kind of a piece of shit. | 02:14 |
| dwd | Right. Finally got local config to work on Telomer, so it must be time for bed. | 02:16 |
| Aleksandyr | congratulations and good night | 02:16 |
| |tbb| | what is telomer | 02:16 |
| dwd | |tbb|: Email client. | 02:16 |
| dwd | |tbb|: Does low-bandwidth IMAP, basically. (As in, full Lemonade Profile, with several additional extensions to make stuff faster). | 02:17 |
| * Aleksandyr plugs dwd's own site: http://trac.dave.cridland.net/ | 02:17 | |
| |tbb| | cant find packet irssi | 02:17 |
| Milhouse | Ari Jaaksi has posted a comment in his bog pretty much sticking the knife into OS 2007 on 770 :( | 02:17 |
| dwd | He posted a comment in his bog? | 02:18 |
| dwd | That's just *too much information*. | 02:18 |
| disq | :D | 02:18 |
| Milhouse | well blog actually, but some blogs are sooo full of... :) | 02:18 |
| Aleksandyr | "But I agree that with more time and resources we could have provided a better support for the 770. We will learn from this!" | 02:19 |
| Aleksandyr | someone buy this man a spin doctor | 02:19 |
| |tbb| | aleks whats the package name for the irssi | 02:19 |
| Milhouse | "We will learn from this!" probably isn't going to go down that well with some poeple | 02:19 |
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| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: it might not be in a repo yet, check ApplicationCatalog2006 | 02:19 |
| Milhouse | "So I paid $400 to be a beta tester?!" | 02:19 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: No, a dentist. Putting his foot in his mouth that hard is bound to need some help. | 02:19 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: I think he's going to need a proctologist, if that's what you mean | 02:20 |
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| |tbb| | i thing maemo is down | 02:23 |
| |tbb| | .org i mean | 02:23 |
| siti | yeah doesn't work here too | 02:24 |
| Aleksandyr | mamo.org down here too | 02:24 |
| Aleksandyr | s/mamo\.org/maemo.org/ | 02:24 |
| |tbb| | no irssi the :/ | 02:24 |
| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: http://www.fulminati.org/index.php?id=59 | 02:25 |
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| Aleksandyr | |tbb|: or http://www.komputika.net/maemo/index.php?dir=&file=irssi_0.8.10-1mad_armel.deb | 02:26 |
| framerate | anyone know a website that has the stinghorn vpn client for download? | 02:27 |
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| Aleksandyr | framerate: stinghorn.com appears to be down, so no =/ | 02:29 |
| |tbb| | will aircrack suite worked now without errors on the n770 | 02:29 |
| framerate | i know, i was hoping it'd work on n800, cant get online at work at all :( | 02:30 |
| Aleksandyr | on that note, it's 7:30 and it's time for me to go home. | 02:30 |
| Aleksandyr | framerate: stinghorn VPN does require a kernel module, so it probably won't work until updated ATVL | 02:30 |
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| framerate | wont dial up w/ my blackberry, cant shar macbook wifi and no vpn :( | 02:31 |
| framerate | bad luck so far | 02:31 |
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| |tbb| | gn8 all | 02:34 |
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| gpd | i am now on OSX and I still can't find a client to connect with voice / video to gtalk on n800? any pointers? | 02:42 |
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| gpd | iChat does video - but not with jabber | 02:43 |
| Pio | weird.. scirocco tableteer repos point to /pool/bora/ .. and you just get 404s.. | 02:43 |
| gpd | adiumX is awesome - but doesn't do video | 02:43 |
| Pio | guess ill just get em from /pool/mistral by hand | 02:43 |
| keesj | is there a geeky graphical irc client like xchat that works well under the n770? | 02:44 |
| Pio | theres an xchat port | 02:44 |
| koen | keesj: xchat | 02:45 |
| gpd | keesj: geeky and 'graphical irc' are antonyms :) -- irssi is geeky | 02:45 |
| jtokash | Disconnect, what's up with the update for the n800? | 02:45 |
| jtokash | Software Edition 2007 version 2.2006.51-6 on http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800.php Mine is 1.2006.47-20 | 02:45 |
| Pio | huh strangely its not on the applicationcatalogue.. xchat that is | 02:45 |
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| keesj | keesj sets mode x+z -p+t on gpd | 02:46 |
| keesj | I use irssi as proxy now | 02:47 |
| * pahartik wonders about terrible formatting of example code on document at "http://maemo.org/platform/docs/pymaemo/python_maemo_howto.html" | 02:50 | |
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| daniels | oh dear. apparently you can't get an extension on your residence permit from outside finland. | 02:51 |
| gpd | so can we confirm that there are no stable video and voice clients for OSX or Linux to communicate with the N800 video phone? or should I keep looking? | 02:52 |
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| sp3000 | pahartik: there's a bug | 03:02 |
| NickDe | gpd: I have not found any | 03:03 |
| sp3000 | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=920 | 03:03 |
| NickDe | although I must say n800 to n800 works fabulous | 03:03 |
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| Pio | garage: Canola: Detail: 231 Canola does not work with UShare | 03:06 |
| Pio | doh, no wonder | 03:06 |
| Pio | can you guys recommend a linux upnp server to use? | 03:06 |
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| Pio | ah, fuppes | 03:09 |
| Pio | i know this channel is #maemo and not really #nokiatabletchatter, is that kind of question offtopic here? | 03:10 |
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| gpd | Pio: I have not tried it but gmediaserver is apt-getable on ubuntu | 03:14 |
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| Pio | apparently gmediaserver has the same problems as ushare.. | 03:14 |
| Pio | or at least, its own set.. they both use libupnp though, which has problems of its own | 03:14 |
| Pio | im monkeying with fuppes.. no good documentation for it yet apparently.. | 03:15 |
| keesj | I think I use gnump3d is that possible? | 03:15 |
| Pio | i dont think gnump3d does any upnp | 03:15 |
| Pio | at least that i know of | 03:15 |
| Pio | at least mine doesnt :) | 03:15 |
| keesj | no i use gmediaserver -o /tmp/out.log -b --friendly-name=box --disable-id3 /mnt/data/home/shared/media/ | 03:16 |
| Pio | that works ok for canola? | 03:16 |
| keesj | but streams often get broken (I blame mediaserver) | 03:16 |
| Pio | heh canola queried fuppes and it died | 03:17 |
| Pio | well something's better than nothing | 03:17 |
| danguy | my goodness, the scratchbox install needed is over 650MB it looks like. | 03:24 |
| danguy | a lot of that seems to com from doctools... hmm | 03:24 |
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| * gpd investigates mp3tunes and oboe client for n800 | 03:30 | |
| ntrs | is there any way I could be able to use java applets on web pages on n800? | 03:31 |
| ntrs | Is there a java VM for 770 or N800? | 03:31 |
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| ntrs | Will these work with N800? | 03:33 |
| ntrs | http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/classpath_0.91-1_armel.deb | 03:33 |
| ntrs | http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/jamvm_1.4.3-1_armel.deb | 03:33 |
| ntrs | http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/jikes_1.22-1_armel.deb | 03:33 |
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| gpd | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/JavaLanguage <- probably the best place for updates - no mention of n800 yet | 03:37 |
| gpd | presumably noone knows if Jazelle is active on n800 | 03:38 |
| gpd | I can't find if oboe and mp3tunes uses open protocols... | 03:41 |
| ntrs | has anyone ran minimo successfuly on n800? | 03:41 |
| gpd | I think I am learning about 1 new work every 20 minutes on here... | 03:43 |
| gpd | s/work/word/ | 03:43 |
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| shackan | does the N800 run opera? | 04:16 |
| soothsay | shackan: The embedded version, yes. | 04:16 |
| shackan | sweet | 04:17 |
| gpd | before i flash the new image - i am doing scp -r teeny:/home/users . and using the backup restore tool - any other tips? | 04:18 |
| * gpd wonders where everybody went | 04:22 | |
| danguy | Is there a mirror for repository.maemo.org? | 04:23 |
| danguy | This sdk installer is getting 16B/s. | 04:23 |
| gpd | Finishing flashing... done :D | 04:26 |
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| * gpd grumbles about lack of 'no to all' | 04:31 | |
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| Mazin | Jaffa: can you help me with your script to encode video for the 770? | 04:58 |
| Mazin | Jaffa: I sent you a PM on ITT about it... | 04:58 |
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| gpd | do i need to do something special to login to gmail.com on n800? it keeps reloading the page when i click on the password box | 05:16 |
| akk | Hmm, I can't get there on the 770 either -- it says it needs JS and it's not enabled or not supported. | 05:19 |
| akk | Oh, that's 'cause it wasn't checked by default in settings ... | 05:19 |
| gpd | seems strange given that gmail is a bookmark on n800 factory preset | 05:20 |
| akk | yup. I guess you're supposed to know to go there and turn JS on. | 05:20 |
| gpd | i have js on | 05:20 |
| gpd | settings - enable javascript -- tick | 05:21 |
| gpd | it might have saved the wrong password or something -- need to find where that is stored | 05:21 |
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| gpd | must be in .opera somewhere - but not obvious how to remove password from the list | 05:23 |
| gpd | ah--- tools settings clear -- clear passwords :) | 05:24 |
| gpd | this thing gets better by the hour! | 05:24 |
| gpd | excellent - that was it - i am into gmail | 05:25 |
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| gpd | transparency of windows in google calendar 'add event' is a little fruity | 05:27 |
| gpd | akk: how are you getting on? did you flash the update? | 05:27 |
| akk | gpd: Yes, the update went very smoothly once I figured out the right file to use. | 05:27 |
| akk | gpd: Installing software on the new system has been a bit rocky, but I think I have most of the critical stuff now, everything else can wait. | 05:28 |
| gpd | what sort of stuff were you trying for? | 05:28 |
| akk | It took me forever to get an xterm to install, and I had to give up on bash | 05:29 |
| akk | I got a system crash in the middle of sudoku (I don't really care about that, it was just a whim) | 05:29 |
| gpd | you are on n800 - i forget | 05:29 |
| akk | so that never installed at all, but it took about 20 minutes for the system to reboot so that I could do anything else | 05:29 |
| akk | No, I'm on a 770 | 05:29 |
| akk | Some of the problems were from not knowing about the "red pill" option | 05:30 |
| akk | (I finally stumbled upon that, enabled it and then things went better, wish I'd known about it before I screwed myself up with the wrong libncurses) | 05:31 |
| gpd | [this google calendar isn't working with the create event button] | 05:31 |
| akk | most of those system utilities don't show up at all without "red pill" | 05:31 |
| gpd | but now you should be able to apt-get stuff right? | 05:32 |
| akk | Some things, anyway. Other things still don't show up | 05:33 |
| akk | like I only have one xterm, not two (still not sure which one I'm seeing, the regular or advanced one) | 05:33 |
| gpd | 'sorry but this browser does not support web word-processing.' - google docs and sheets | 05:33 |
| akk | but I can't apt-get it anyway, because it doesn't like my libncurses and won't replace it either | 05:33 |
| akk | I wonder if they want content-editable or design-mode? | 05:35 |
| gpd | my impression so far is that these tablets are bleeding edge on all fronts | 05:35 |
| akk | (for google docs) | 05:35 |
| akk | I haven't tried installing minimo yet, but if it works it probably does design-mode and would work. | 05:35 |
| gpd | you have a lot more software available to you than me -- bora only have the core stuff it seems | 05:36 |
| gpd | i'm sure it will all appear soon enough | 05:36 |
| akk | I added a bunch of repositories from the applications page. | 05:37 |
| akk | Most of them don't seem to show up, but a few do. | 05:37 |
| gpd | what are your priorities for things to get working? | 05:38 |
| akk | 1. fbreader, which is working, whew. 1. basic unix system utilities like xterm and bash (no luck on bash, though) | 05:39 |
| akk | 3. fun stuff like games, astro programs, and also development stuff (I did get python-runtime installed) | 05:39 |
| akk | Oh, pim stuff like a calendar would be nice, but I haven't attempted that yet. | 05:40 |
| gpd | i need a vpn cisco client for campus access. | 05:40 |
| gpd | fbreader would be good, calendar with external .ics support | 05:40 |
| Tak | dates is a nice calendar | 05:40 |
| Tak | ...which imports and exports .ics | 05:41 |
| gpd | imap folders would be great as 99.9% of my mail in in 'Reference/Year' | 05:41 |
| akk | Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. | 05:41 |
| gpd | python is a must | 05:41 |
| akk | I don't need much mail stuff -- I find tapping text to be waaaaay too slow and painful to use it for mail | 05:41 |
| akk | though I'm glad you mentioned gmail, I did want to test that and it's working now | 05:41 |
| gpd | vim - although i think a bluetooth keyboard would be needed | 05:41 |
| akk | Oh, yeah, I tried to get vim and failed. I want some sort of text editor. | 05:42 |
| Tak | don't forget about fceu and xmaeme for games | 05:42 |
| gpd | the mail is useful for reference i think -- looking at old mails for phone numbers or addresses that i didn't transfer etc | 05:42 |
| akk | I don't actually play games much ... I like having chess, and if I could add a couple like sudoku or minesweeper it would be nice | 05:42 |
| gpd | then we are into the wikipedia joy - for browsing offline | 05:43 |
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| akk | I don't have a big mini-SD so not much hope for wikipedia here. | 05:43 |
| akk | How much space do you need for a wikipedia copy? | 05:43 |
| gpd | the webaroo is about 7G | 05:44 |
| gpd | but i would be happy with small slices | 05:44 |
| akk | How would you choose slices? | 05:44 |
| gpd | eg. a small spider around a certain topic -- with link depth of 5 or soemthing | 05:44 |
| gpd | not sure - just something i was interested in -- or browsing whilst online -- click 'save for offline' | 05:45 |
| gpd | the UPnP stuff also looks promising - but i don't have the right hardware atm i think to spend much time on it | 05:45 |
| akk | I'd like some of the wifi utilities eventually, sniffers and such | 05:46 |
| gpd | if the skype stuff comes out soon and supports the camera - that would be superb as i have loads of people on skype | 05:46 |
| akk | Ooh, that would be a nice use for it. (Not for me, I don't have skype, but in general) | 05:47 |
| gpd | probably need to get yahoo/msn/aol messenger going -- gaim? | 05:47 |
| akk | I installed xchat, but typing is so slow I doubt I'll use it much. | 05:47 |
| gpd | i need to find a page with bluetooth keyboards to see what they look like and how much. | 05:47 |
| gpd | the palm ones were fairly huge | 05:48 |
| akk | If I could get a very small portable keyboard, this gizmo might actually become useful. | 05:48 |
| gpd | the virtual 'laser' ones are apparently crappy | 05:48 |
| akk | It would be such a great PDA if it just had a zaurus-like thumb keyboard | 05:48 |
| gpd | well the screen thumb keyboard on N800 is HUGE -- haven't really tried it yet though | 05:49 |
| gpd | in fact I can't quite remember how to access it right now :) | 05:49 |
| akk | typing on a touchscreen doesn't work for me, because I can never tell whether a key actually registered or not | 05:50 |
| akk | I have to re-tap a lot, and correct a lot | 05:50 |
| gpd | i agree -- where would you look for a bluetooth one? | 05:50 |
| Tak | actually the guys here tested with the onscreen thumbboard vs a sony mylo, and the thumbboard was better by a considerable margin | 05:50 |
| gpd | newegg? | 05:50 |
| Tak | the thinkoutside stowaway sierra is supposed to be pretty nice | 05:50 |
| gpd | thanks Tak | 05:51 |
| gpd | doesn't tak mean thanks in danish? | 05:51 |
| akk | Looks like that's fullsize, though, not a portable | 05:51 |
| akk | (which certainly has its uses, of course) | 05:51 |
| gpd | tri-folded design | 05:52 |
| gpd | 'highly protable' -- does look very nice | 05:52 |
| gpd | it is 100 grams heavier than the tablet though! | 05:53 |
| Tak | gpd: I hear it does | 05:53 |
| gpd | Tak: is $130 about normal - or is that high end? | 05:55 |
| Tak | that kb is like $90 at newegg | 05:56 |
| gpd | that's more like it :) | 05:56 |
| Tak | that and the nokia su-8w are about the same price | 05:56 |
| Tak | and those are the only two good ones I know of :-P | 05:56 |
| gpd | have you used both? | 05:57 |
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| Tak | I haven't actually used either | 05:58 |
| Tak | I'm just regurgitating popular opinion | 05:59 |
| Tak | it's like high school all over again | 05:59 |
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| gpd | ok - good enough - thanks for the tips - i need to run (literally) and keep away from newegg! | 06:02 |
| myren | man i really wish there were nice tactile analog direction pads | 06:11 |
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| jtokash | any word on what this new image for the n800 is for? | 06:37 |
| Disconnect | jtokash: there are release notes | 06:37 |
| jtokash | Oh, thanks Disconnect. For some reason it didn't occur to me to download it and unzip it! >blushes< | 06:39 |
| jtokash | hmmm it looks like a bin file | 06:40 |
| jtokash | Are the release notes somewhere else? | 06:40 |
| jtokash | I searched the buffer. I see you already mentioned nokia.com. Never occurred to me to look there. omw | 06:44 |
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| jtokash | I can't find the release notes. http://www.nokiausa.com/support/phones/main?phone_model=N800&x=12&y=4 | 06:49 |
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| gpd | jtokash: i pasted the reference above - not easy to find | 07:01 |
| gpd | http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 | 07:02 |
| gpd | Nokia Internet Call Invitation (Beta) | 07:02 |
| gpd | Bluetooth connection on/off enabler | 07:02 |
| gpd | Improvements in finger usage | 07:02 |
| gpd | from the tumbleweeds in here i guess everyone is at CES | 07:05 |
| jtokash | Thanks gpd | 07:06 |
| jtokash | did you install? | 07:06 |
| gpd | yes - all smooth | 07:07 |
| jtokash | is it a full overwrite? Did you lose all your settings? | 07:09 |
| gpd | yes and yes - but backup restore got most back | 07:09 |
| gpd | eg. all rss feeds mail settings etc | 07:09 |
| gpd | i had to reinstall the xterm and ssh | 07:09 |
| Disconnect | loses bt pairings | 07:09 |
| gpd | but the application repos was all there still | 07:09 |
| Disconnect | all installed apps | 07:09 |
| gpd | hmm . bt pairings would be annoying i guess | 07:10 |
| jtokash | that might be a blessing in disguise. I think I got a few bad installs on day 1. | 07:10 |
| Disconnect | if you edit things like input.ini you lose that too | 07:10 |
| jtokash | ok, cool. I'll pull the trigger! | 07:10 |
| gpd | Disconnect: could you in theory tar and untar /home/user - and get that stuff back? | 07:10 |
| gpd | or is that not advised | 07:10 |
| Disconnect | gpd: it remembered that it wanted to be paired to my phone and kb, but whatever holds the actual pairing disappeared | 07:11 |
| Disconnect | repairing was easy | 07:11 |
| Disconnect | gpd: i wouldn,t | 07:11 |
| gpd | unison would be a useful app for the tablet - must check if available | 07:11 |
| Disconnect | that path is in the image so.. | 07:11 |
| gpd | Disconnect: ok - agreed | 07:11 |
| gpd | what bluetooth keyboard to you have / recommend? | 07:12 |
| Disconnect | stowaway | 07:12 |
| Disconnect | love it :) | 07:12 |
| gpd | http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/sbt5e/sbt5e_product.html | 07:12 |
| gpd | that one? | 07:12 |
| Disconnect | backspace http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/xtbtue/stowawaybt_product.html | 07:13 |
| Disconnect | er | 07:13 |
| Disconnect | backspace still causes opera to go back | 07:14 |
| Disconnect | (even in a text input) | 07:14 |
| gpd | wow that one is tiny | 07:14 |
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| gpd | did you compare it with the one i pasted? | 07:14 |
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| * Disconnect wishes for hibernate (or even deepsleep capacitors) so changing batteries didn't wean rebooting | 07:21 | |
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| hype | http://kmwarren.imarichkid.hop.clickbank.net | 07:23 |
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| jtokash | I'm totally not going to click that. | 07:24 |
| gpd | Disconnect: is your keyboard like a laptop's spacing? | 07:24 |
| Disconnect | yah | 07:24 |
| Disconnect | comfortable | 07:24 |
| gpd | http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/sbt5e/sbt5e_product.html | 07:24 |
| gpd | that one is much bigger but only 19mm spacing not 18mm (yours) | 07:24 |
| gpd | i suppose you are getting the cursor keys etc | 07:24 |
| Disconnect | except for qwerty to dvorak and back | 07:24 |
| Disconnect | i miss the number row tho | 07:25 |
| jtokash | I have one of the recent stowawyas - stowaway universal. I hate that the top row shares #s and letters | 07:25 |
| gpd | no numbers? hmm... | 07:25 |
| * gpd wonders why a online retailers are *incapable* of giving you a descent sized picture! | 07:26 | |
| jtokash | I think I would have preferred to have wider keyboard | 07:26 |
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| jtokash | that had the extra row | 07:26 |
| gpd | here - look at this thumbnail before purchasing... | 07:26 |
| jtokash | but they didn't ask me | 07:26 |
| Disconnect | yah | 07:27 |
| gpd | universal looks to be the same as Disconnect's | 07:27 |
| gpd | i guess it all comes down to size/weight | 07:28 |
| gpd | 160g for universal ultraslim - or 303g for stowaway | 07:28 |
| Disconnect | its a good match to the 770. not terrible with the 800 either but i miss the hardcase (throw them both in a pocket or whatever) | 07:29 |
| jtokash | yeah, I really miss the hard case | 07:29 |
| * Disconnect used the brando case | 07:30 | |
| jtokash | I haven't seen that one | 07:30 |
| gpd | my worry is that 'if i am going to bring a keyboard - it may as well be big and not annoy me with no number keys' | 07:30 |
| Disconnect | saved it from a couple of falls | 07:30 |
| gpd | however, if it is too big i just will never use it i suppose | 07:30 |
| Disconnect | shop.brando.com.hk | 07:30 |
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| gpd | damn it - i will have to see it in person - end of temptation | 07:31 |
| * gpd puts down the CC | 07:31 | |
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| Disconnect | got a ton of zaurus stuff from him too (actually.. the c760 was from there too, come to think of it) | 07:32 |
| jtokash | update installed. rebooting | 07:33 |
| jtokash | Yeah, I like brando. I got some palm stuff from them (screen protectors, cases) and I think my usb2ide/sata set came from there as well | 07:34 |
| jtokash | great prices | 07:34 |
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| Disconnect | yah | 07:36 |
| gpd | jtokash: are you putting together a guide for new users? | 07:39 |
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| jtokash | oh god, are you serious? Bora still has the problem where it won't skip bad application catalogs. | 07:41 |
| jtokash | Disconnect, you were right about bluetooth pairings dying on reflash. FYI, though, my phone's internet settings are still there. Don't need to re-enter the data call phone number, etc | 07:42 |
| gpd | is there a review site (like ipodlounge) for us tablet people? | 07:43 |
| Disconnect | yah | 07:43 |
| Disconnect | (to jtokash) | 07:44 |
| jtokash | haha | 07:44 |
| jtokash | I don't review the apps, though | 07:44 |
| myren | ok i only have two things i can possibly grimace about. no usb, and no gps. | 07:44 |
| Disconnect | usb is easy - same 5V injector from the 770 | 07:44 |
| Disconnect | gps is easy too - itrek m3 :) | 07:45 |
| Disconnect | (even worked inside hotels and such on our last trip | 07:45 |
| Disconnect | ) | 07:45 |
| jtokash | I wonder if there is a debug log for bluetooth phone connection attempts. Mine keeps failing | 07:46 |
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| Disconnect | jtokash: fwiw my 9300i just said "open cover" and prompted far a pin | 07:47 |
| jtokash | well, I'm paired and I can browse the phone in the file manager | 07:48 |
| jtokash | but I can't get the data connection to work | 07:48 |
| Disconnect | then the 800 said 'doh, pairing!' and prompted too | 07:48 |
| jtokash | It worked yesterday but not today | 07:48 |
| Disconnect | weird. | 07:48 |
| jtokash | (even before the os update, it wasn't working) | 07:48 |
| gpd | I think a page like: http://ubuntuguide.org/ for tablets would be a great starting point for new tablet people to make the transition - it is a little scary moving from a desktop | 07:48 |
| Disconnect | ah | 07:48 |
| Disconnect | reboot the phone? | 07:48 |
| jtokash | tried that. :-) | 07:48 |
| jtokash | I'll reenter all the credentials | 07:49 |
| jtokash | start from scratch | 07:49 |
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| gpd | jtokash: what is that stuff about umpc on your site? | 07:50 |
| gpd | what is that thing? | 07:50 |
| gpd | oh -- ultra micro pc... all windows... must have terrible battery life | 07:51 |
| jtokash | my old eo? | 07:52 |
| jtokash | sold that | 07:52 |
| gpd | no good? | 07:52 |
| jtokash | battery life | 07:52 |
| gpd | specs look impressive | 07:52 |
| jtokash | and not pocketable | 07:52 |
| jtokash | basically, I wanted the nokia 770 but didn't know that I wanted the 770 | 07:52 |
| jtokash | :-) | 07:52 |
| gpd | 60GB hard drive! holy battery hell | 07:52 |
| Disconnect | lol | 07:52 |
| jtokash | It was 5400 rpm, at least | 07:53 |
| jtokash | :-) | 07:53 |
| gpd | also 2lbs is chunky monkey | 07:54 |
| Disconnect | is it me or is the 800 way lighter than the 770? | 07:54 |
| gpd | N800 is about 210g - not sure about 770 | 07:54 |
| jtokash | n800 is lighter | 07:55 |
| gpd | 230g for 770 | 07:55 |
| jtokash | they are close when you compare them without the 770's shell | 07:55 |
| * gpd still rumbles about keyboards - big or small... | 07:56 | |
| * Disconnect has no shell on his, still seems like its a ton lighter | 07:56 | |
| Disconnect | well.. a bit anyway | 07:58 |
| myren | Disconnect: wait 5v injector for usb? | 07:58 |
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| myren | there is a usb host, just not powered? | 07:58 |
| myren | i was under the impression there was nothing resembling usb anywhere to be found on the N800 and 770 | 07:59 |
| Disconnect | myren:yah. enable it in sw, then provide 5v into the port and it goes all hosty | 07:59 |
| myren | will a powered hub drive that 5v line? | 08:00 |
| myren | or does it require a little more DIY | 08:00 |
| Disconnect | http://www.hcilab.org/projects/nokia770/nokia770.htm | 08:00 |
| Disconnect | afaik it takes at least a little | 08:00 |
| gpd | [random news - second life goes open source] <- tablet edition? >) | 08:00 |
| * Disconnect built one for $6 at radio shack, w/ a 9v battery, switch and led it fit in an altoids tin | 08:01 | |
| jtokash | fyi, I can't use my cell connection with my 770 either anymore | 08:02 |
| jtokash | I bet cingular changed the password | 08:02 |
| jtokash | arght | 08:02 |
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| Disconnect | fun | 08:02 |
| Disconnect | tmob has been good for me | 08:02 |
| jtokash | I'll see what howardforums has to say | 08:03 |
| jtokash | Yeah, I think I'll switch to tmobile when my contract is up | 08:03 |
| jtokash | or _maybe_ spring | 08:03 |
| jtokash | sprint | 08:03 |
| Disconnect | uck | 08:04 |
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| bmidgley | jtokash: which cingular phone? are you paying to tether? | 08:09 |
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| jtokash | no, bmidgley, media.net | 08:10 |
| jtokash | lg cu320 | 08:10 |
| Disconnect | http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/01/no-solder-usb-host-method.html | 08:10 |
| bmidgley | verizon insited on a firmware update to my e815 that killed bluetooth dun | 08:11 |
| jtokash | wow! | 08:11 |
| jtokash | that's rude | 08:11 |
| bmidgley | after a lot of complaining they replaced it with a treo 700p | 08:11 |
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| jtokash | haha! | 08:11 |
| konttori | morning | 08:11 |
| bmidgley | it's pretty goofy to carry a 700p and a 770 | 08:11 |
| bmidgley | i miss the little flipphone | 08:12 |
| bmidgley | the fun part was the bills i was getting while using my "unlimited" data on the e815 | 08:13 |
| bmidgley | one month was $1500 | 08:13 |
| jtokash | ouch | 08:13 |
| gpd | hmm... looks like the ultraslim igo has no Escape key -- Vim Disaster! | 08:13 |
| Disconnect | fn-tab on mine | 08:14 |
| jtokash | ditto | 08:14 |
| gpd | is that acceptable? | 08:14 |
| jtokash | no | 08:14 |
| gpd | i am coming round to the big brother: | 08:14 |
| gpd | http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/sbt5e/sbt5e_product.html | 08:14 |
| Disconnect | works for me although i'd happily swap esc and tab | 08:14 |
| gpd | seems to be the same size as my desktop keyboard | 08:15 |
| gpd | and it will be in my bag - not pocket - so extra 150grams is not a big deal | 08:15 |
| bmidgley | the think outside bt keyboard is ok but / is in the wrong place | 08:15 |
| bmidgley | i keep hitting up-arrow | 08:15 |
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| gpd | finally some high res photos: http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_imagead&t=reviews&id=893&img=http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000000893/review/Think%20Outside%20Sierra%20BT%20kb%2013%20800.jpg | 08:25 |
| gpd | ouch - sorry for long url | 08:25 |
| danguy | To be more in like with oldschool keyboards, just remap CapsLock to Esc. | 08:26 |
| danguy | Actually, it makes emacs almose useful to do that. | 08:26 |
| konttori | Looks pretty nice. How much does it cost? | 08:26 |
| gpd | $81.95 at amazon | 08:26 |
| bmidgley | looks easier to use than their stowaway kb i bought | 08:26 |
| gpd | http://tinyurl.com/ymuayk <- excellent review of stowaway v. ultralight | 08:29 |
| SuperQ | gpd: yea | 08:31 |
| SuperQ | gpd: I have the smaller Sonoma for my 770 | 08:32 |
| SuperQ | I have something similar to the Sierra for my Handspring Visor | 08:33 |
| SuperQ | somewhere.. | 08:33 |
| gpd | I think I'm convinced by the big beasty 'sierra' - i am a fat handed freak ;) | 08:33 |
| danguy | 1mm? | 08:34 |
| konttori | sonoma looks even better than sierra | 08:34 |
| konttori | keys are about the same size and for normal use, numbers are really not that needed | 08:35 |
| danguy | I dunno if I can live without numbers. | 08:35 |
| danguy | I would have to try it for a while with the Fn key. | 08:35 |
| gpd | 1mm is the difference between a laptop keyboard and a desktop keyboard | 08:36 |
| danguy | I prefer my thinkpad keyboard to my desktop, so... | 08:36 |
| gpd | http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000000893/review/Think%20Outside%20Sierra%20BT%20kb%2019%20800.jpg | 08:36 |
| danguy | Actually, I just saw this on Engadget: http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/08/malatas_nixes_t.html | 08:37 |
| danguy | It actually meets the requirements for maemo :) | 08:37 |
| gpd | hmm... looks sweet | 08:38 |
| danguy | I would have to know about the battery before buying, but I will follow it when they release it. | 08:38 |
| gpd | it says it has linux - but the screenshot implies xp | 08:38 |
| gpd | looks like a penguin in the start button though! :) | 08:39 |
| gpd | and a debian swirl | 08:39 |
| danguy | That is clearly a linux desktop | 08:39 |
| danguy | The "start" button has a penguin on it | 08:39 |
| konttori | I must say that Malata looks terrific | 08:39 |
| danguy | yeah | 08:39 |
| konttori | That | 08:40 |
| bmidgley | the review says the sonoma stand isn't detachable but it is | 08:40 |
| konttori | 's like the ideal notebook for a student. Especially a young one. | 08:41 |
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| gpd | hmm... now i'm flipping back to the sonoma -- typical gpd | 08:48 |
| danguy | :) | 08:49 |
| danguy | I find it strange that it takes more batteries, but still weighs less. | 08:49 |
| danguy | But, I guess that also means you have to change them much less often. | 08:49 |
| gpd | presumbably you can't use a bluetooth mouse with n800/770? | 08:51 |
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| danguy | hmm... | 08:53 |
| danguy | I don't know how one would even write a fake driver for that. | 08:53 |
| danguy | Maemo itself works just fine with a mouse, though, even right click works as expected. | 08:54 |
| gpd | i should pluck up the courage to install the sdk - and stop drooling over keyboards | 08:55 |
| danguy | I just did that today. It was very easy. | 08:56 |
| danguy | Although, the repository is *very* slow. | 08:56 |
| gpd | is it like a chroot install or something? | 08:56 |
| danguy | Well, you install scratchbox first | 08:56 |
| danguy | Then you install the sdk into that as your own user | 08:56 |
| danguy | and then it is somewhat like chrooting after that. | 08:57 |
| gpd | scratchbox is a mystery - so there is the energy barrier... | 08:57 |
| * gpd reads | 08:57 | |
| danguy | What distro? | 08:57 |
| gpd | ubuntu edgy atm | 08:57 |
| konttori | I wish Nokia would provide pre-installed and ready to go vmware image for each sdk for us non-linux users | 08:58 |
| danguy | There are Debian packages that work in Ubuntu: "deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ ./" | 08:58 |
| gpd | or for us linux users too -- vmware player is apt-getable | 08:58 |
| danguy | Hmm | 08:59 |
| danguy | The install is pretty big | 08:59 |
| danguy | The image would probably be 1GB or more. | 08:59 |
| gpd | 1GB is about 45min download ;) | 09:00 |
| * gpd runs | 09:00 | |
| gpd | http://www.chipx86.com/wiki/Scratchbox_1.0_and_Maemo_Installation | 09:00 |
| danguy | I just used http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.0/INSTALL.txt | 09:00 |
| danguy | Oh, that chipsx86 guide is outdated. | 09:02 |
| gpd | ok - following your url | 09:02 |
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| c0ffee | eww | 09:16 |
| c0ffee | "don't apply, but please make your work visible" | 09:16 |
| keesj | that's kind of hard right? | 09:17 |
| myren | dude ipv6? fancy. | 09:18 |
| keesj | Or perhaps it is an invitation for spamming irc and the mailing list | 09:18 |
| c0ffee | i fear the latter | 09:19 |
| myren | at least he's honest? | 09:19 |
| c0ffee | i don't see much of a diff between applying and making your work visible | 09:20 |
| c0ffee | it would be better to have a defined email addy like last ttime where you can make your work visible imho | 09:20 |
| daniels | well, look, if you consider that the goal of the program is to boost the maemo development program, why would you do it any other way? | 09:20 |
| daniels | s/development program/development community/ | 09:21 |
| daniels | if only nokia can see what you've done, and others can't, then that's not really doing anything for the maemo development community | 09:21 |
| myren | wuht? | 09:21 |
| keesj | true , but in that case you would not eclude people who did not yet contribute. | 09:21 |
| myren | i have no idea what you are talking about c0ffee | 09:21 |
| c0ffee | what about 'put a page up in the wiki and link it from here' | 09:21 |
| myren | i presume its something about what software was released with the n800 | 09:21 |
| daniels | keesj: i'd imagine that's why the original program invited people to apply, whereas the current one recognises existing contributions | 09:22 |
| c0ffee | well, it's a wiki anyway | 09:23 |
| c0ffee | maybe i'll just do that | 09:23 |
| suihkulokki | well, you just can't do a discount programm like that "100% fair" anyway | 09:23 |
| suihkulokki | "elämä on" | 09:23 |
| keesj | but for me it felt like a message from nokia that they appreciate your involvement. If you have to behave like a monkey to get that appreciation no thanks | 09:24 |
| daniels | keesj: you can't please everyone, all the time | 09:24 |
| keesj | all you really need is to be clear. | 09:24 |
| keesj | back the latex now :) | 09:25 |
| c0ffee | i prefer leather! | 09:25 |
| keesj | 2007 and my love for LaTeX still grows | 09:26 |
| c0ffee | i wonder whether the scratchbox .deb files contain some extra script magic | 09:30 |
| c0ffee | or whether they fail to install like the tarballs | 09:30 |
| keesj | are you talking about installing on the real device with the gui installer? | 09:32 |
| c0ffee | nah, about setting up scratchbox on my desktop | 09:32 |
| gpd | c0ffee: i am just installing the debs now | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | are you using debian? | 09:33 |
| gpd | ubuntu edgy | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | mhm | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | i don't | 09:33 |
| gpd | gentoo? | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | yes | 09:34 |
| gpd | Everything seems ok. | 09:34 |
| gpd | downloading rootstrap | 09:35 |
| c0ffee | i'll install the stuff on my workbox and copy it over | 09:35 |
| c0ffee | at work i have a debian system | 09:36 |
| gpd | so this question is bugging me - how does the 770/800 chip differ from the regular Debian Arm distro? [page 1 faq] | 09:36 |
| daniels | gpd: well, aside from cpus and distros being rather different, maemo uses eabi, whereas debian hasn't got there yet | 09:37 |
| c0ffee | what is eabi? | 09:37 |
| gpd | acroym number 27 of the day :) /me googles | 09:38 |
| c0ffee | does that mean you're not using the broken gcc arm alignment? | 09:38 |
| gpd | wow - even wikipedia has no eabi page | 09:38 |
| gpd | bleeding edge baby -- bleeding edge | 09:39 |
| daniels | http://www.google.com/search?q=arm+eabi&btnI=I'm+Feeling+Lucky | 09:39 |
| danguy | 'The "ARM EABI" is an informal name for the ABI for the ARM Architecture.' | 09:40 |
| danguy | http://www.arm.com/products/DevTools/ABI.html | 09:40 |
| c0ffee | so it's the correct abi in contrast to broken gcc abi | 09:41 |
| c0ffee | gcc on arm will reserve 4 bytes for a single byte entry in a struct | 09:41 |
| myren | is debian EABI arm port still active? http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort#head-09c58a67d9499ae14bd6151368c7c0385893c521 | 09:42 |
| myren | running aptitude on a maemo would rock | 09:42 |
| daniels | myren: the work is all done, it's just waiting until after etch | 09:42 |
| myren | keen. | 09:43 |
| myren | do people (3rd parties) ever adjust the GUI itself on maemo, or is it mostly just app building? | 09:43 |
| myren | the standard gui looks like it leaves a 740x430 resolution or thereabouts for apps | 09:44 |
| myren | erm, i guess i'm saying gui when i mean window manager | 09:44 |
| daniels | 720x420, yes | 09:45 |
| myren | ok a little off | 09:45 |
| myren | is that adjustable? | 09:45 |
| myren | can the framing take up less spacE? | 09:45 |
| daniels | no, it's fixed | 09:45 |
| daniels | and many apps have these assumptions hardcoded in them | 09:45 |
| myren | are fullscreen apps possible? | 09:45 |
| danguy | yes | 09:46 |
| myren | i presume so, but perhaps the media playeres i've seen are all Nokia software or something | 09:46 |
| danguy | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html | 09:47 |
| gpd | myren: very interesting link about debian armel - thanks all | 09:47 |
| danguy | That covers that in the "Basic Hildon Layouts" section | 09:47 |
| jtokash | thoughtfix says there is a magnetic wallet case for the n800 at CES | 09:48 |
| jtokash | he's getting a photo tomorrow. The ones he took today didn't come out. | 09:48 |
| gpd | sdk install complete: "Happy hacking!" | 09:48 |
| danguy | gpd: woo! | 09:49 |
| tigert | good morning | 09:51 |
| myren | bloody wifi, stop dropping my nfs | 09:51 |
| danguy | myren: There is a solution. Get a WRAP board and put a 400mW Atheros in it... :) | 09:53 |
| myren | yeah tempting | 09:53 |
| c0ffee | stop the blob | 09:53 |
| myren | i use a bunch of netgear WGT634u's. most are only 75mW, although rated for 100mW just fine. atheros based. the nice thing is they were $32 and they have usb 2.0. | 09:54 |
| danguy | One of my friends built a WRAP board. It turned out pretty awesome. | 09:54 |
| myren | 400mW atheros indoors is... uh.. homicidal. | 09:54 |
| danguy | I wish my WRT54GL had USB... | 09:54 |
| c0ffee | myren, a mobile phone has 2W | 09:54 |
| myren | c0ffee: mobile phone isnt sending full power 24/7 | 09:55 |
| danguy | I have one of the 300mW PCMCIA Atheros cards. | 09:55 |
| danguy | Normally I use the intel wireless, but when wardriving, the extra boost is good. | 09:55 |
| c0ffee | myren, wlan neither | 09:55 |
| myren | the new routers kinda keep sucking. 8mb ram / 32 mb flash is really the most you can get away with without mounting external hd space | 09:55 |
| myren | c0ffee: uh, at my work, it is operating 24/7 sending copious data | 09:56 |
| myren | thats why we have multiple routers doing 75 and in some cases 33 mW. | 09:56 |
| c0ffee | the wlan cards normally only use their full power if they can't keep the connection up | 09:56 |
| rabelais | does bora have SIP support? | 09:57 |
| gpd | danguy: if have run out of instructions - where to next with sdk? | 09:58 |
| danguy | gpd: Xephyr is running and all? | 09:58 |
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| gpd | no - missed that bit - /me continues | 09:59 |
| danguy | gpd: Well, one that is done, you can just work with apt and then start actually compiling stuff. | 10:00 |
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| danguy | Important command: if it says you cannot change profiles as a session is running, type "sb-conf killall" | 10:01 |
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| gpd | flippin' sweet! i have it running the gui :D | 10:02 |
| danguy | Although, it does lack a bit, eh? | 10:02 |
| gpd | maemopad - but not much else | 10:02 |
| danguy | Following that, I am just starting into the Maemo 3.0 Tutorial. | 10:03 |
| danguy | I installed osso-xterm first, actually. | 10:03 |
| gpd | so in theory can i install enough to make it look like the real device? or is this cut down for development? | 10:04 |
| danguy | I do not have a real device yet, so I have no idea. | 10:04 |
| danguy | I assume there is proprietary stuff missing that cannot be installed. | 10:05 |
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| gpd | hmm osso-xterm failing with errors | 10:07 |
| danguy | BTW, I could not get osso-xterm running in the X86 target. | 10:07 |
| danguy | heh | 10:07 |
| danguy | It ran fine for me in the ARMEL target. | 10:07 |
| gpd | the instructions have you run from X86 - is that the normal place to start? | 10:08 |
| danguy | I have no idea. | 10:08 |
| danguy | But compiling and executing will be faster. | 10:08 |
| danguy | So, for normal development, I assume it is the default. | 10:09 |
| suihkulokki | danguy: did you install x86 rootstrap to your x86 target? | 10:09 |
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| danguy | I used the automated script | 10:09 |
| suihkulokki | ah, ok | 10:09 |
| gpd | so there are a bunch of packages on here that are not available on the n800 - eg. vim - is this in an unstable repository or something? | 10:10 |
| gpd | or is this just the x86 target having loads of stuff... | 10:10 |
| danguy | Ask me in a month... :) | 10:11 |
| gpd | ? | 10:11 |
| danguy | Well, i am very new at this | 10:12 |
| danguy | In a month, I will probably know better. | 10:12 |
| gpd | not as new as me -- 24hour veteran! | 10:12 |
| gpd | ok -- all this stuff is from scratchbox :( | 10:12 |
| c0ffee | you can always grab the sources for the 770 package and recompile it | 10:12 |
| gpd | anything with 'virtual' | 10:13 |
| c0ffee | i think jaffa has it | 10:13 |
| danguy | "af-sb-init.sh stop" does not seem to work in the ARMEL target. | 10:13 |
| gpd | c0ffee: just download the source deb for 770 and recompile? | 10:16 |
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| gpd | [my cluelessness will help you when writing the user guide!] | 10:16 |
| gpd | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_to_maemo_bora.html | 10:17 |
| |tbb| | anyone knows how to use the mobizine thing ? | 10:19 |
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| gpd | no sign of the source package for vpnc | 10:22 |
| daniels | odds are it's just the same as debian | 10:22 |
| gpd | so all these packages are maintained by random people... ? | 10:23 |
| gpd | who submit to the wiki on maemo.org? | 10:24 |
| gpd | is there an equivalent of ubuntu 'masters of the universe'? | 10:24 |
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| gpd | ie. a team that coordinates the packages into a single repository? | 10:24 |
| X-Fade | Morning. | 10:24 |
| tigert | gpd: not yet | 10:25 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Have you seen Ferenc lately? | 10:25 |
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| gpd | hmm... so i downloaded the debian source.deb - patched, compiled in armel sbox and it seems to run... | 10:36 |
| gpd | can it really be that easy? this must be the exception to the rule | 10:36 |
| gpd | or am i fundmentally missing the point | 10:36 |
| c0ffee | the main difficulty is to hildonize the gui | 10:37 |
| c0ffee | if you don't need gui support it's that easy | 10:37 |
| gpd | wow - very cool | 10:38 |
| c0ffee | however, commonly an application like vim is too heavy for maemo | 10:38 |
| gpd | i imagine it would be | 10:38 |
| c0ffee | so you might want to use a special embedded version or strip as many components as possible | 10:38 |
| gpd | there is vim-tiny for ubuntu maybe that is suitable | 10:38 |
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| nomis | moin. | 10:41 |
| alump | is there a working version of xterm for n800? | 10:42 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:42 |
| gpd | alump: yes - osso-xterm | 10:43 |
| tigert | X-Fade: he was online yesterday | 10:43 |
| alump | gpd, can install it, need packages that are uninstallable with gui-installer | 10:44 |
| gpd | alump: you need to activate red-pill (search maemo) then add repository.maemo.org etc and it should appear in application manager | 10:45 |
| alump | ok | 10:45 |
| inz | or you can use the one from "http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/ bora main" | 10:45 |
| inz | Although there's a bit of issue w/ it, that I've yet to resolve | 10:46 |
| gpd | inz is it fairly safe to add that repository for n800? | 10:47 |
| inz | gpd, it's made for N800, so it should be | 10:47 |
| gpd | not a great deal in there yet - but one to watch | 10:48 |
| alump | gpd, yes thanks, how long this red-pill feature has existed? | 10:48 |
| gpd | alump: no idea - i am a tablet owner since about y'day afternoon! :) | 10:49 |
| alump | ;) | 10:49 |
| inz | alump, since IT2006 | 10:49 |
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| tigert | inz: you have a working term for the 800? | 10:50 |
| gpd | inz: have you tried maemo-gaim? | 10:50 |
| tigert | I am just setting up sbox for the bora stuff | 10:50 |
| gpd | tigert: i do - works fine | 10:51 |
| inz | tigert, yes, although there's some issues | 10:51 |
| inz | gpd, yeah, it works just fine from mistral repo | 10:51 |
| inz | tigert, somewhy the input method only allows alphanumeric until you tap the term widget | 10:52 |
| keesj | did somebody try to compile a programs with the "-pg" flag on 3.0? | 10:53 |
| jtokash2 | not sure if any of you use my readermini site, but I just finished some code changes that make startup super fast. http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/09/new-version-of-readermini-on-the-alpha-site/ | 10:53 |
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| jtokash2 | just realized I left alpha site on that title... it's on the main site now. readermini.com | 10:54 |
| Guardian | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/more-from-vegas.html sad news :(( | 10:54 |
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| slapin_nb | hi, all! | 10:54 |
| slapin_nb | could anybody provide link on developer program with n800? | 10:55 |
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| dwd | slapin_nb: It's invite only. | 10:55 |
| keesj | Guardian, Nokia will not integrate and make OS2007 available for 770 , it's a bit hard yes | 10:56 |
| tigert | inz: ok | 10:57 |
| tigert | inz: same repo just bora as dist name? | 10:58 |
| keesj | I guess it must be clear how long nokia will support the hard and software they make. | 10:58 |
| gpd | would there be a gpg key for hackers repos? i added it by hand to sources.list - maybe i should use the app cat | 10:59 |
| inz | tigert, aye | 11:01 |
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| inz | gpd, http://inz.fi/pubkey.txt | 11:03 |
| inz | or should be... | 11:03 |
| inz | hmm | 11:03 |
| gpd | wget http://inz.fi/pubkey.txt | sudo apt-key add ? | 11:05 |
| inz | If you want to do it like that, then add -O - to wget and - to apt-key | 11:06 |
| gpd | clearly no wget | 11:06 |
| gpd | ok - will work it out | 11:07 |
| gpd | out of interest - would the application manager have done that automatically? | 11:07 |
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| inz | nope | 11:08 |
| gpd | apt-key add pubkey.txt | 11:09 |
| gpd | W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org bora Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 3A312B21B9E81572 | 11:09 |
| inz | Yeah, noticed | 11:10 |
| Guardian | keesj: but it's surely the reason why there is this 99euros offer | 11:12 |
| inz | Ah, seems that reprepro uses the default key, ignoring what I put in SignWith -field | 11:12 |
| inz | Now it should work | 11:12 |
| Guardian | keesj: nokia loses money selling a n800 at this price | 11:12 |
| Jaffa | Any guesses as to how they did: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/ces/itt9.jpg ? | 11:13 |
| Jaffa | TV out would be very cool | 11:13 |
| gpd | isn't that vnc client | 11:13 |
| Guardian | or it's photoshoped :) | 11:14 |
| inz | Jaffa, at least the image was raped while scaling down | 11:14 |
| gpd | inz: fix0r'd | 11:14 |
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| philn | hi | 11:15 |
| gpd | Maattaa giving me a demo of the soon to be released navigation app for the N800 The N800 via VNC on an LCD screen | 11:15 |
| Jaffa | gpd: yeah, VNC server on the 770 would make sense I suppose | 11:16 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:16 |
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| inz | Jaffa, x11vnc at least works beautyfully | 11:16 |
| gpd | inz: you will probably get less faqs if you put the gpg key and instructions on the front page of hackers site | 11:17 |
| Jaffa | gpd: in fact, it says VNC on the related article | 11:18 |
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| gpd | Jaffa: that was what i was quoting | 11:18 |
| inz | gpd, I could promote the contents of the page to front page, yeah | 11:19 |
| gpd | maybe with something like: scp or copy the pubkey.txt file to your tablet, then as root do apt-key add pubkey.txt, then apt-get upgrade again | 11:21 |
| inz | gpd, but now that it's the correct one, it can be found on common keyservers too | 11:21 |
| gpd | i have been using debian for 8 years and i still need assistance once and again | 11:21 |
| inz | =) | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | gpd: indeed, I've lost the ability to read | 11:22 |
| inz | Hmm, the ApplicationRepositories page claims that maemo-hackers.org won't work without the gpg key from command line. | 11:23 |
| gpd | i've lost the ability to do anything other than play with this device oO | 11:23 |
| inz | That's quite weird, as the key I've been (accidentally) using to sign it with has not been available anywhere | 11:23 |
| gpd | jtokash2: just playing with google reader for the first time (been using liferea) - looks v. nice - will try out your app tomorrow | 11:28 |
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| gpd | anyone happen to know if compUSA puts the sierra/sonoma keyboards out to be played with? - if not i just need to decide and order from amazon | 11:35 |
| qgil | Guardian: " keesj: but it's surely the reason why there is this 99euros offer" - the aim of the program is to help developers getting sooner & easier a N800 to work with, it has no relation with a hard/soft support policy | 11:37 |
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| tnbt | any infos where I can download gaim with all available protocols? | 11:43 |
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| gpd | tnbt: n800 or 770? | 11:44 |
| qgil | tnbt: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-7a166196bc374deeaac7901447ef8ec0dc6ea166 | 11:45 |
| gpd | http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/09/thinkoutside_si.html <-- sierra all the way | 11:47 |
| tnbt | 770 | 11:49 |
| tnbt | on mameo.org I just found a gaim package without any protocols included | 11:49 |
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| inz | tnbt, the protocols are in the same repo | 11:50 |
| tnbt | and this one was even not installable (port page was at berlios.de) | 11:50 |
| inz | tnbt, they're just installed separately | 11:50 |
| inz | tnbt, IT2005 or 2006? | 11:50 |
| tnbt | inz: you are talking about the berlios port? | 11:50 |
| tnbt | 2006 | 11:50 |
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| * gpd completes order of stowaway sierra - goes to bed - thanks all | 11:54 | |
| inz | tnbt, I'm actually mostly talking about the maemo-hackers port, which is pretty much the same as the berlios port | 11:55 |
| tnbt | will check | 11:55 |
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| Jaffa | koen: how's it going with stock Gtk & Maemo 3 components? | 11:58 |
| koen | Jaffa: pretty good | 11:58 |
| koen | Jaffa: apart from license problems | 11:58 |
| moo_mou | how good is the 800 for ebooks? | 11:59 |
| koen | I'd think with all the references to nokia legal being a bitch the license files would actually contain licenses | 12:01 |
| Jaffa | koen: indeed. What's your aim? apt-gettable components over the top of a end-user image? | 12:01 |
| koen | instead of references to missing copyright statements | 12:01 |
| Jaffa | koen: yeah, a rather shocking state of affairs | 12:01 |
| koen | Jaffa: my aim is to have maemo stuff working over a stock base system (e.g. ubuntu on the desktop, gpe on your ipaq, etc) | 12:02 |
| tnbt | when installing gaim I get the message "installation not possible" | 12:03 |
| tnbt | any idea why this happens? | 12:03 |
| keesj | tnbt, try command line perhaps there a dependencies missing | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | koen: Cool. What about a 770 without a stock base system? Part of the same project, or a different one? No point starting one of those if it can be a version of yours | 12:04 |
| AD-N770 | Has the N800 an screen cover as 770 ? | 12:04 |
| tnbt | upps, but it looks like that the program is installed nevertheless | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | AD-N770: no | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | AD-N770: but it's apparently a much strong, harder screen. | 12:04 |
| koen | Jaffa: no idea yet | 12:04 |
| koen | Jaffa: I loathe debian packaging | 12:04 |
| sxpert-work | Jaffa: problem is, when in a pocket, you can have a myriad of things touching the screen, doing random things in the applications | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | koen: heh | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | sxpert-work: I didn't say it was a good thing ;-/ | 12:05 |
| sxpert-work | right | 12:05 |
| koen | Jaffa: right now I'm using openembedded since that generates .ipk and .deb files for me | 12:05 |
| sxpert-work | Jaffa: I don't think it was a good idea. just as bad as that silver finish case | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | koen: cool | 12:07 |
| sxpert-work | bloody marketters and their "silver paint finish on anything" meme | 12:07 |
| koen | Jaffa: maemo3 depends on gtk 2.10, glib 2.12, etc | 12:10 |
| koen | Jaffa: so apt-get update wouldn't work anyway on a stock 770 | 12:10 |
| koen | Jaffa: unless you disable lifeguard reset, login via ssh, etc | 12:10 |
| X-Fade | koen: You'd have to update to herring first.. | 12:10 |
| sxpert-work | how's cairo running on the 800 ? | 12:10 |
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| koen | sxpert-work: pretty sweet I think, since the n800 has an fpu | 12:11 |
| sxpert-work | koen: it has an fpu ? wow... now that's what I call progress :D | 12:12 |
| muzz2k | ls -l /var/log/apache2/ | 12:14 |
| muzz2k | oops wrong window :-/ sorry people | 12:14 |
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| vidarino | Jaffa: you rang? :) | 12:18 |
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| jtokash | hmmm http://aksi.mdamt.net/node/174 | 12:23 |
| jtokash | this guy seems to be getting at the video from the n800 webcam | 12:24 |
| inz | muzz, you did it all wrong, you're supposed to do: sudo tail /var/log/apache2/access.log<enter>ase345Asdf<enter> | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | vidarino: indeed, I'm finally working on mud-builder (http://www.bleb.org/software/770/mud.txt) and fancied using netcat as an example - since you've ported it already, I was just touching base that when I announce mud-builder on maemo-dev and reference a new netcat pacakge you won't be offended ;-) | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | jtokash: the API is nicely documented on maemo.org | 12:25 |
| Jaffa | jtokash: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_camera_api_bora.html | 12:25 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Argh, you got me. I thought "MUDs on a 770? Haven't seen MUDs in years". | 12:26 |
| Jaffa | dwd: sorry ;-) | 12:27 |
| jtokash | cool, Jaffa | 12:27 |
| moo_mou | omg | 12:28 |
| moo_mou | that page is evil | 12:28 |
| * moo_mou gets sick | 12:28 | |
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| vidarino | Jaffa: offended? no no, not at all. go right ahead. :) | 12:28 |
| vidarino | it wasn't much work anyway. IIRC, i just downloaded the souce, applied a debian patch and hit "make". | 12:28 |
| Jaffa | vidarino: indeed, that's why I'm choosing it as my first example :) | 12:29 |
| vidarino | ah. :) | 12:29 |
| Jaffa | Allow me to concentrate on the framework rather than the porting | 12:30 |
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| Jaffa | I imagine getting a Maemo-uploadable netcat would be a case of including an XML file like: <package><fetch type="debian">netcat</fetch></package> | 12:30 |
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| Jaffa | koen: re missing source, also as the recent GPL stuff has proved pointing to upstream source isn't enough for a Linux distribution :-/ | 12:44 |
| koen | Jaffa: http://www.openembedded.org/gpl-causing-problems-for-derivative-linux-distros :) | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | koen: indeed, so it might be worth making Nokia aware of it ;-) | 12:51 |
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| florian_kc | good morning | 12:53 |
| nelsonBOM | morning. | 12:54 |
| nelsonBOM | Yep, pointing upstream doesn't work. Redistribution has its price. | 12:56 |
| dwd | There's other often-overlooked things in the GPL, like if you distribute a binary that's been built with a typical ./configure;make, you need to "distribute" the ./configure arguments, too. | 12:58 |
| nelsonBOM | That's just an argument against using configure. | 13:00 |
| dwd | nelsonBOM: Well, it's easy to rectify, if your source redist is virtually any kind of Linux package. | 13:01 |
| dwd | nelsonBOM: Since those include the ./configure line in their spec, rules, etc files. | 13:01 |
| nelsonBOM | Just include it in the binary's meta-information. | 13:03 |
| dwd | nelsonBOM: That's probably reasonable, too. | 13:04 |
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| inz | It seems that the binaries in bora repository are newer than the sources | 13:06 |
| dwd | inz: Source mismatch? | 13:07 |
| inz | dwd, dunno, but if you go alphabetically through, 3 of the 5 first packages have newer binaries than sources | 13:09 |
| nelsonBOM | Isn't that how it should be? | 13:09 |
| dwd | inz: It might be the upload order. Remember, there's no buildbot etc like Debian. | 13:09 |
| jonek | hi | 13:09 |
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| inz | dwd, I'd guess the sources are for 1.2006.47-20 and the binaries for 2.2006.51-6 | 13:12 |
| dwd | inz: If that's the case, it's a GPL infringement. Hopefully it's not, though. | 13:13 |
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| inz | dwd, GPL does allow you to only send the sources by mail | 13:14 |
| inz | dwd, so just not having them up on a server doesn't make it infringement | 13:15 |
| koen | 'on request' | 13:15 |
| inz | koen, I thought it was implicit | 13:15 |
| dwd | inz: Sort of true. It mandates that with the binaries you include either the source or an offer to provide it. | 13:15 |
| inz | dwd, true, haven't checked if such offer is in the package | 13:16 |
| koen | there was some haggling about preferred medium iirc | 13:16 |
| dwd | inz: In this case, because the packages are in a known system which provides both binary and sources, that would, I'd assume, be the offer. | 13:16 |
| jonek | hey guys! some phoneME news from my 770 :-) -> *CONGRATULATIONS: test Test completed with 411 tests passed and 0 failures | 13:16 |
| dwd | jonek: Congrats. :-) | 13:16 |
| glass_ | nice | 13:16 |
| inz | dwd, well, in any case I'd guess it's a human error, but tis nasty anyway | 13:16 |
| inz | Or maybe the mirroring server just arent up to date | 13:17 |
| inz | ;) | 13:17 |
| koen | inz: happens everytime there is an update to maemo | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | jonek: ace | 13:17 |
| dwd | inz: Yes, it's probably just a slip-up, but Nokia ought to be made aware. | 13:18 |
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| nelsonBombay | Harald will want to know; if only to timestamp a file. | 13:20 |
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| * Jaffa does his ask of the day (I think I know the answer, fortunately): anyone got a Developer Discount code yet? | 13:22 | |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: I think when somebody DOES receive it, they will be shouting it here ;) | 13:24 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: here's hoping ;) | 13:24 |
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| inz | Woohooo, yay, yippee!!!11! | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | Aren't we all? :P | 13:25 |
| inz | Nevermind that... | 13:25 |
| Jaffa | Yay, Sylpheed works on the N800 (apparently) | 13:31 |
| inz | yay | 13:32 |
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| MoRpHeUz | out ? | 13:32 |
| nelsonBombay | I hope they'll announce when the email is being sent, so I can check to see if it got caught in my spam filters. | 13:35 |
| nelsonBombay | 'twould be a shame to miss out because of a lost email. | 13:35 |
| dwd | Whitelist nokia.com? | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | nelsonBombay: that's my fear, too. | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | dwd: ...and maemo.org too, probably. | 13:36 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Plan. | 13:37 |
| inz | dwd, telnet nelsonsmailhost.com 25\nEHLO nokia.com\nMAIL FROM:buy.viagra@nokia.com\nRCPT TO:nelson@nelsonsmailhost.com\nDATA\nBuy viagra!\n.\n | 13:37 |
| * Jaffa 's always wary of editing his spam filters in case I break receiving all mail (again) | 13:37 | |
| Jaffa | inz: is there a 75% discount on it? | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | And the mail seems to be missing the promo code. | 13:38 |
| vidarino | you receive the code with your first shipment of viagra. | 13:38 |
| inz | Jaffa, no, there's 100% discount, you'll get 100% less viagra for the price | 13:38 |
| vidarino | oh. | 13:38 |
| vidarino | that's a pretty good discount! | 13:39 |
| Jaffa | inz: and the advantage is I'll be too busy, err, "elsewhere" to worry about N800 discounts ;-) | 13:39 |
| moo_mou | n800 and viagra...that's totally win/win | 13:39 |
| * Jaffa might start reselling N800's at 50% discount. You'll even get to choose if you want the left or the right half. | 13:39 | |
| inz | I think it's just plain cruel to send viagra spam to geeks, like we'd ever get laid anyway | 13:39 |
| moo_mou | :O | 13:40 |
| * vidarino snickers | 13:40 | |
| moo_mou | there are some girls that actually like geeks | 13:40 |
| jaek | geeks actually do pretty well in this modern technologically savvy world... geeks are prime mates ;) | 13:40 |
| inz | moo, not quite as many as there are geeks | 13:40 |
| * vidarino <- taken. ;) | 13:40 | |
| moo_mou | I can't help that | 13:41 |
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| moo_mou | that just means that I have a bigger selection to choose from :P | 13:41 |
| vidarino | i'm very geeky, too. just pointing out that it's possible. :] | 13:41 |
| Jaffa | Mrs Jaffa has been the prime motivator on new hardware for the Freevo box in our house :) | 13:41 |
| moo_mou | freevo? | 13:41 |
| * moo_mou perks up | 13:41 | |
| moo_mou | I somehow broke my media center capability after the first use | 13:42 |
| vidarino | hmm, freevo. it's been a while since i checked that out. | 13:42 |
| * moo_mou sighs | 13:42 | |
| inz | Come on, don't ruin good joke with facts, I've my beloved SO too. | 13:42 |
| * vidarino sorries | 13:43 | |
| Jaffa | moo_mou/vidarino: I used Freevo for years, but switched to MythTV when I recently got my DVB-T card. Now switched back to Freevo with the resurgent 1.x development and even contributed a few patches (my theme's nearly finished too: http://www.bleb.org/software/panorama/main-menu.jpg) | 13:43 |
| moo_mou | I just got a media center PC last month | 13:43 |
| vidarino | jaffa: nice | 13:44 |
| moo_mou | and I dunno what happened | 13:44 |
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| vidarino | i've been using my home-brew (dumb) menu system, mostly. | 13:44 |
| vidarino | just a prettified file browser, basically. | 13:44 |
| moo_mou | I had no choice in the matter | 13:44 |
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| jaek | you always have a choice | 13:45 |
| moo_mou | it was either wait weeks for a custom built PC or get one from Best Buy | 13:45 |
| moo_mou | not when a company pays for it ;) | 13:45 |
| * Jaffa hopes there aren't any MythTV devs here but the best that can be said of it is that it's pretty. It's TV functionality's OK, but for non-TV media (e.g. video, CDs, DVDs, music) it's atrocious. | 13:46 | |
| moo_mou | I've been looking at a fun toy to get away from my comp | 13:46 |
| moo_mou | while still keeping most of the fun things about my comp | 13:46 |
| moo_mou | so I'm dying to get an n800 | 13:47 |
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| philn | moo_mou: tried Elisa? | 13:53 |
| vidarino | Jaffa: do you know if freevo can be (customly) remote controlled somehow? | 13:53 |
| vidarino | e.g. via http? | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | vidarino: yes, there's a web interface but also a TCP command interface. A custom Maemo remote is on my to-investigate list. | 13:53 |
| vidarino | i've been pondering making a remote-control app for the 770 for my tv-pc. | 13:53 |
| vidarino | ah. nice. :) | 13:54 |
| moo_mou | Elisa? | 13:54 |
| philn | http://fluendo.com/elisa/ | 13:54 |
| vidarino | my idea was to use a "smart" web-page (using JS / AJAX) for it. for fast-as-heck prototyping and easy theming. | 13:55 |
| moo_mou | looks pretty | 13:55 |
| moo_mou | I just can't understand how I broke it :( | 13:55 |
| moo_mou | so how many of you have the n800 already? | 13:59 |
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| Jaffa | philn: looks interesting | 14:02 |
| philn | Jaffa: yes.. we have plans to add a client app for the N770 / N800 :) | 14:03 |
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| Veggen | I'll probably buy an N800 when it can be bought in Norway...two SD-slots, double RAM is worth it for me. | 14:08 |
| moo_mou | I'm just curious as to how it is with blogging and whatnot | 14:08 |
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| Jaffa | philn: what's the media player under the covers? | 14:09 |
| moo_mou | or logging onto password-protected sites | 14:09 |
| philn | Jaffa: GStreamer | 14:09 |
| Jaffa | philn: Right. | 14:10 |
| Jaffa | http://urandom.ca/~tack/kaa-menu-demo.avi is a demo of Freevo 2's "under development" GUI framework | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | moo_mou: the 770 was good for password-protected sites | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | well, HTTP basic auth | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | worked quite well | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | it remembered my credentials, like firefox | 14:11 |
| philn | Jaffa: looks nice | 14:11 |
| moo_mou | cool | 14:12 |
| moo_mou | I don't want to lug a laptop around everywhere, so it would be nice to blog and upload pictures from the road | 14:12 |
| koen | Jaffa: does freevo still insist on adding all freqs by hand in a python file without a proper doc for the format? | 14:13 |
| Jaffa | koen: no, not for DVB (dunno about analogue) | 14:16 |
| koen | Jaffa: I fear mythtv is the only option for a 2 computer setup (1 analog tuner in each computer) | 14:17 |
| suihkulokki | mythtv is crashy and bloated to no limit, dvb sucks on freevo, ui sucks on vdr, elisa does not have dvb.. | 14:17 |
| * dwd sends his bragging email to the list. | 14:18 | |
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| Jaffa | koen: probably right. Unfortunately it's separate backend process and dependence on MySQL makes for a painful experience on a single, low-powered box (surely the majority of PVRs?_ | 14:20 |
| koen | right | 14:20 |
| * koen loathes mysql | 14:20 | |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: Freevo's not too bad for DVB, though cos I'm just using an S-Video cable I don't watch live TV through it, only recordings. | 14:21 |
| koen | although my low powered box is a 2.4GHz celeron | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | Beats, somewhat, my VIA EPIA 1GHz box (newly upgraded from 600MHz fanless) | 14:21 |
| koen | I got a good deal on an asus pundit barebone | 14:22 |
| suihkulokki | I never had performance problems with mythtv backend.. and the backend/frontend separation is one of the good things in myth | 14:22 |
| koen | which seemed more reliable than 'bad caps' epia bords | 14:22 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: Freevo's got a separate record server, written in Python which takes 1/10th of the mythtv-backend and MySQL dependency, the frontend can also be used without the backend. | 14:23 |
| suihkulokki | Unfortunately the backend includes stuff like dbb eit parsing in one of its many threads, and if any of the threads crashes, the whole pisa-insipired archictecture collapses | 14:23 |
| Jaffa | Although, MythTV's frontend is nice - especially when watching recordings (ideally I'd even use it to watch Freevo recordings) | 14:24 |
| mgedmin | dwd: telomer sounds interesting | 14:25 |
| mgedmin | does it need anything special from the IMAP server? | 14:25 |
| dwd | mgedmin: Doesn't *need*, but will use. | 14:26 |
| dwd | mgedmin: You can't do the 55M message forward tricks without a full Lemonade server setup, though. | 14:26 |
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| mgedmin | it's good that I don't have any 55M messages then ;) | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | does it support IMAP and SMTP over TLS, and also SMTP authentication? | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | does it support IMAP folders? | 14:27 |
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| dwd | mgedmin: Heh. Yes, it has mailbox support. | 14:27 |
| suihkulokki | dwd: is it possible to implement lemonade stuff in dovecot? | 14:28 |
| dwd | mgedmin: It'll handle multiple mail servers, TLS via STARTTLS, supports a number of SASL mechanisms. | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | sounds too good to be true | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | :) | 14:28 |
| dwd | suihkulokki: I think Timo is doing some. He's in the WG, IIRC. | 14:28 |
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| suihkulokki | doh | 14:29 |
| dwd | suihkulokki: Cyrus IMAP 2.3.x supports, I think, all of the Lemonade profile, but I don't think there's an open source submission server (ESMTP) yet. | 14:29 |
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| keesj | it is nice to know what people are doing | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | Should it be possible to use the opera flash plugin from N800 on 770? Or does it have processor optimizations? | 14:34 |
| dwd | suihkulokki: Actually, scratch that, Timo appears to only be in IMAPEXT, not Lemonade. | 14:35 |
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| jonek | is the head set of the n800 a bluetooth one? does that mean taht we now get BT head set support for the 770, too? | 14:41 |
| daniels | the headset shipped with the device is wired | 14:41 |
| jonek | :_( | 14:41 |
| jonek | has anybody checked if a BT head set is usable with the n800 then? | 14:43 |
| keesj | daniels, but is it BT? | 14:44 |
| keesj | o, sorry misread wired v.s weird | 14:45 |
| dwd | keesj: It's his Australian accent. | 14:45 |
| jonek | hi keesj, phoneME is working now. do you have suggestions on how to proceed for GUI support? | 14:47 |
| jonek | I've got reply from Chris Plummer from Sun about another team that was successfull on phoneME+770. they used a stripped down QT on the 770 and had problems with user input/keyboard of course. | 14:48 |
| keesj | not right now , but i am more the willing to spend some time on it later today so brainstorm | 14:49 |
| Jaffa | jonek: my first thought would be to provide a Gtk+ peer, in place of the QT one. Then you get the input for free. | 14:50 |
| keesj | but you have a lot of integration to do | 14:50 |
| jonek | Jaffa: that was my first thought, too. but I don't know how to do that. | 14:51 |
| daniels | dwd: heh | 14:51 |
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| * jonek has to read more info about how to extend/modify phoneME. | 14:52 | |
| jonek | Chris Plummer is very supportive - I'll ask him now. | 14:52 |
| jonek | would it make sense to give you guys the chance to download the current phoneME build even if it's not capable of showing GUI? | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | jonek: and as keesj said yesterday, a J2ME peer doesn't need a lot | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | jonek: yeah | 14:54 |
| jonek | "doesn't need a lot" is relative :) -> more info appreciated | 14:55 |
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| Jaffa | jonek: I'm not sure without going through the QT one closely | 15:11 |
| |tbb| | anyone familar with maemo mapper? | 15:14 |
| keesj | re | 15:17 |
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| keesj | yes , midp2 only contains a few gui elements. and there are at least two java based implementations that use lightweight widgets. in such a situation you really only need a peer "drawing" area. perhaps some work for userinput but since j2me apps don't expect to much that can not be hard either | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | keesj: exactly what I was thinking | 15:20 |
| keesj | perhaps more work is to implement the different optional API's like webcam access sound , isolated storage, | 15:20 |
| keesj | I have not looked at what Phone2ME provides | 15:20 |
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| rob_w | hi all . is the N800 capable to stream video , like youtube or realplayer out of the box ? | 15:21 |
| keesj | On a personal level I would also look if nobody is implementing the peers using wxWidgets, and put some effort in porting wxwidgets to hildon | 15:21 |
| keesj | (because I happen to like ruby and that there is a good ruby wxWidgets project going on | 15:22 |
| bergie | rob_w: the report is that youtube works, but with low framerate | 15:23 |
| Jaffa | rob_w: RealPlayer should be as good as it is on the 770 (if not better) | 15:23 |
| rob_w | i wonder if it was without flaws as even a 1ghz umpc has his problems doing that | 15:24 |
| Jaffa | rob_w: I have no problem with the "standard" BBC Real streams. | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | Aww, how nice - a user says I should get a developer N800; does that add weight to my name? ;-) | 15:28 |
| keesj | Jaffa, what you say | 15:30 |
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| koen | Jaffa: that just means you know how to create fake users ;) | 15:31 |
| X-Fade | bergie: I committed another fix for test.maemo html. If ferenc updates the site with r160 and r161, I can try to fix the IE mess :) | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | koen: ...and I'd've got away with it too, if it wasn't for you pesky kids. | 15:33 |
| koen | :D | 15:33 |
| bergie | X-Fade: OK, I'll ping him | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | bergie: great ;) | 15:33 |
| bergie | thanks for the patches, BTW | 15:34 |
| X-Fade | bergie: np.. | 15:35 |
| X-Fade | bergie: nemein.com is you right or you are related to that? | 15:36 |
| bergie | related, yes | 15:39 |
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| inz | ooh, just noticed that the "internal" memory card can be changed on-the-fly | 15:48 |
| inz | in n800 that is | 15:49 |
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| Veggen | inz: which internal? The non-SD one? | 15:52 |
| jtra | the one under battery - I expected that | 15:57 |
| inz | veggen, the one below back cver | 15:57 |
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| dwd | keesj: wxWidgets is okay, but having done a fair bit of both that and GTK+, GTK+ is much better. | 16:08 |
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| Veggen | jtra: I was confused by "on-the-fly". I don't think he actually meant "while the device is running" ;-) | 16:11 |
| keesj | my girlfriend just has won 1 minute of free shopping in a supermarket | 16:12 |
| Fatal | shit, 1 minute.. stressful | 16:13 |
| keesj | any plans to sell n800's in a supermarket Amsterdam? | 16:13 |
| Veggen | keesj: I'd plan it in detail the day before :) | 16:13 |
| Veggen | (with on-site-reconnaisance) | 16:13 |
| dwd | keesj: My wife does free shopping in the supermarket all the time, for hours. She begins by saying the magical words "Dave, I'm borrowing your card" | 16:14 |
| keesj | It's really the kind of thing I was dreaming of a kid | 16:14 |
| Fatal | dwd: :D | 16:14 |
| keesj | lol | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | keesj: does it have any electrical items? | 16:14 |
| dwd | keesj: Are there lots of rules, like only one of anything, etc? | 16:14 |
| keesj | cheap phone's I think | 16:14 |
| keesj | I don't know the rules yet. | 16:16 |
| keesj | I can already see here grapping all the stuff like a beast | 16:17 |
| keesj | (this is the shop) http://www.ah.nl/ | 16:17 |
| dwd | keesj: If they have no rules, tell her to grab the cash registers. | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | keesj must love his "Bonuskaart" :) | 16:19 |
| keesj | This is where my first nokia 3310 came from. | 16:19 |
| keesj | no I ussualy make fun of "Bonuskaart/air-miles" and such things, I guess she was right (this time). | 16:20 |
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| keesj | google: ah + nokia == Ah, the Nokia 770, it only gets better | 16:22 |
| qgil | talking about paying and saving, any tip about banks in Finland? Is it there any option wuth some kind of ethical/social compromise like http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1075363440873&pagename=CoopBank%2FPage%2FtplPageCarousel ? | 16:24 |
| daniels | qgil: not that i'm aware of, sorry | 16:25 |
| qgil | ok, then I'll go for the one accomplishing web standards and not punishing for not having the "recommended" OS | 16:27 |
| Veggen | Hmmf. The N800 is not available here, yet... | 16:27 |
| qgil | when online ban king | 16:27 |
| daniels | qgil: i'm with nordea, whose online banking seems fine, and is available in english | 16:28 |
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| qgil | got the tip, thanks daniels :) | 16:28 |
| daniels | no worries | 16:28 |
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| Veggen | Nordea, I guess, is a maximum-profit, standard bank? | 16:28 |
| daniels | try to get a real bank card if you can, since their visa electron is crap | 16:29 |
| daniels | can't use it that much online or overseas | 16:29 |
| daniels | Veggen: naturally | 16:29 |
| Veggen | daniels: I understood his question otherwise than you, that he wanted a bank with a conscience. | 16:29 |
| qgil | I hope we won't get a spam-alike email from you explaining that you are in Australia and unable to recover the fortune you have in a bank account in Finland and offering a saucy commission if... ;) | 16:30 |
| qgil | Veggen: do you have any suggestion? | 16:30 |
| Veggen | qgil: Not exactly :) Dunno Finland banking. | 16:30 |
| daniels | qgil: heh | 16:30 |
| daniels | Veggen: right, hence < daniels> qgil: not that i'm aware of, sorry | 16:31 |
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| Veggen | oh, sorry. missed a few lines here. | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | [5~ | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | xxx | 16:33 |
| tigert | daniels: nordea has a real Visa card as well | 16:34 |
| tigert | the electron is mostly for kids | 16:34 |
| tigert | I have a combo, bankcard + visa | 16:34 |
| daniels | tigert: yeah, i need to get me one of those | 16:35 |
| tigert | so I can pull money from an ATM directly from my account | 16:35 |
| daniels | preferably by friday, but odds are low | 16:35 |
| tigert | and also use it as a VISA | 16:35 |
| tigert | it takes a bit of time to get one | 16:35 |
| tigert | those they dont do while you wait at the bank | 16:35 |
| tigert | but I think you might be able to order one from the online bank tool | 16:35 |
| tigert | not 100% sure though | 16:35 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: Hmmm... NetSurf - still working on that? | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Yup. Why? | 16:49 |
| Jaffa | dwd: It's got the same issue as Minimo in that it draws its own form components, including text boxes. So need to do some hackery to get that working with the Gtk+ IMs - that's the only thing holding up a release. | 16:50 |
| dwd | Is it lighter than Opera? Most of the sites I view with the 770 don't use Flash, JScript, etc, and Opera is quite heavyweight. | 16:50 |
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| dwd | Do the forms work, though? I mean, at a basic level? | 16:50 |
| daniels | tigert: cool, i'll check it out, thanks | 16:51 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: Yeah, it's lighter than Opera and forms work at a basic level. A non-basic level if you've got a Bluetooth keyboard. | 16:57 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Ah, yes. You'd not be able to enter text into them. | 16:58 |
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| pahartik | qgil: about banks in Finland: Osuuspankki: "https://www.op.fi/eng?kielikoodi=en", "https://pda.op.fi/ktunn_text_en.htm" (decent PDA service, I have only used that with Lynx), Sampo: "http://www.sampo.fi/english/" (messed up with frames) | 17:10 |
| suihkulokki | many of the banks require finnish social security number before they open a account | 17:11 |
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| pahartik | qgil: all banks probably offer MasterCard and Visa in Finland, and they use joint management company for that, "Luottokunta" | 17:13 |
| pahartik | qgil: all banks (AFAIK) offer their own cards too, with which one can pay at almost any store within country... if payment is less than 50 EUR, it will be charged from account within few days... if amount of payment exceeds 50 EUR, it gets reserved from account immediately | 17:17 |
| glass_ | hmm | 17:17 |
| framerate | Anyone have a good understanding of OpenVPN? My wireless network uses a VPN @ work and I wanted to see if I could get my n800 online here :/ | 17:18 |
| glass_ | i think it's 150e, the limit. at 50e they have to check id though | 17:18 |
| glass_ | (the limit being the limit for at which they check, might check at lower if they wish i suppose) | 17:18 |
| pahartik | qgil: no fee per payment, but some stores without electronic card reader require minimum payment of at least 5 EUR | 17:18 |
| glass_ | some bars have 5e minimum too | 17:19 |
| * pahartik notices that discussion is drifting way off-topic for #Maemo channel | 17:21 | |
| dwd | Finland living usually seems on-topic, as far as I can tell. :-) | 17:21 |
| glass_ | usually it's the crappier kind of bars that have the limit too | 17:23 |
| glass_ | minimum that is | 17:23 |
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| * pahartik points at "http://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/english/index.html" as good reference about public services in Finland | 17:24 | |
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| florian_kc | In Germany there is a similar company to cover these payments - but it _much_ more expensive and therefore only a few shops accept credit cards. | 17:24 |
| dwd | florian_kc: Germany *is* off-topic. We're only meant to talk about banking in Finland. ;-) | 17:27 |
| florian_kc | hehe | 17:27 |
| pahartik | glass_: I do not know much about crappy bars, nowadays I refuse to buy anything from ones that allow smoking inside... but I have managed to pay without paper/metal money for years | 17:28 |
| * Pierre managed to pay without plastic money for years, I'm a resistant :) | 17:29 | |
| pahartik | florian_kc: I think I pay 2,5 EUR per moon for having card and using it as much as bank account balance permits (my balance is low, I admit) | 17:30 |
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| glass_ | bankcard is really really convinient in finland | 17:31 |
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| pahartik | glass_: yes, I only look for ATM after some payment cannot be made by card or CGI service of bank... that usually happens less than once per year | 17:34 |
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| * pahartik wonders about where topic was last seen before it disappeared into surrounding noise | 17:37 | |
| pcfe | FWIW, any european card will work fine too, I've been living here with my non-.fi card for the last year | 17:38 |
| glass_ | any major cc works fine | 17:39 |
| pahartik | pcfe: ...as long as it contains international credit card? | 17:39 |
| glass_ | they're going to be rolling that european bankcard system and phasing out national bankcards | 17:39 |
| glass_ | me using bankcard to differiantate from credit cards | 17:40 |
| pcfe | pahartik: yes, a credit card, the bank card I only use to retrieve money from ATM | 17:40 |
| glass_ | not sure what the proper term is.. some use debit card | 17:40 |
| dwd | I've been using my Maestro/Cirrus card for years across Europe. | 17:40 |
| pahartik | glass_: unfortunately... | 17:40 |
| florian_kc | these even work in china :-) | 17:40 |
| dwd | (Those being international arrangements for debit and ATM cards respectively) | 17:41 |
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| jonek | I found the info that is needed for connecting phoneME-GUI and the GTK+ of the 770: http://java.sun.com/javame/reference/docs/cdc_porting_guide.pdf <- page 149ff | 17:41 |
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| * pahartik fights some more with GTK on Maemo application | 17:45 | |
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| pcfe | florian_kc: Am I right in assuming that http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications needs an s/maemo2/maemo3/g for the GPE stuff? | 17:51 |
| florian_kc | pcfe: would be a good idea... and a s/mistral/bora | 17:53 |
| pcfe | florian_kc: OK, will do | 17:53 |
| gpd | what's the word on N800 screen protectors (apart from /screen is tough/) - would 770 ones fit? do 770 ones exist? | 17:54 |
| framerate | hey gpd.. I'm wondering the same thing | 17:55 |
| gpd | i still have my factory plastic on - which is of course now scratched! | 17:55 |
| Tak | 770 comes with one, and by most accounts it wouldn't fit | 17:55 |
| nomis | gpd: I once bought some for the 770 on ebay. Did not manage to put them on properly (probably did not work clean enough) and ditched them again. | 17:55 |
| nomis | I'd guess that they'd work on the 800 as well, not tried though. | 17:56 |
| gpd | nomis: what manufacturer? | 17:57 |
| gpd | ok - this is the second day with N800 - and second day when this has happened in the morning. power on device - click presence on - searching - no network found -- 45 seconds - finds my wifi - attempts to connect - 'network error' - searches again - then connects. weird | 17:58 |
| nomis | gpd: well, that was someone who bought protection foil in bulk from 3M and cut them to size individually (even before the device was actually on the market). | 17:58 |
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| gpd | i see. i need to google further then. | 17:59 |
| framerate | great my N800 is just booting/crashing/rebooting now | 17:59 |
| moo_mou | :-/ | 17:59 |
| Disconnect | framerate: what changed? | 17:59 |
| gpd | I don't believe the hype about the screen being tough - my palm graffiti area is completely worn away with scratches. | 18:00 |
| framerate | froze up on a memory card when I was hooking it up via USB | 18:00 |
| dwd | framerate: And have you updated to the latest firmware? | 18:00 |
| framerate | Nope, was trying to do that today but can't find it on the nokiausa sight | 18:00 |
| framerate | site* | 18:00 |
| framerate | moot point now though if it won't reboot into the OS | 18:00 |
| Veggen | framerate: corrupted flash? | 18:00 |
| Veggen | eh, corruptet swap. I meant. | 18:01 |
| pcfe | florian_kc: done | 18:01 |
| Veggen | ...do you have a card with swap on, in it? | 18:01 |
| dwd | framerate: Tried booting it with the cards removed? | 18:01 |
| florian_kc | pcfe: thanks! | 18:01 |
| Veggen | (if so, I'd try to remove it) | 18:01 |
| framerate | yeah the card is out right now, might be the problem (I hadn't set it up for swap, though) | 18:01 |
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| dwd | framerate: No, if the card's out, swap won't be tried. | 18:02 |
| dwd | framerate: Or at least it'll fail cleanly. | 18:02 |
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| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 770 updates will continue but Bora (OS2007) is not backported" | 18:03 | |
| Disconnect | added windows image link | 18:03 |
| framerate | ok popped another card in there and it booted... and then crashed again. | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | Ah - I was just thinking: we need a changelog for the topic... | 18:03 |
| Disconnect | heh | 18:04 |
| Tak | /topic append | Topic changelog http://... | 18:04 |
| Disconnect | parse it out of the logs | 18:04 |
| framerate | nokia screen-> holding hands screen -> white screen -> repeat | 18:05 |
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| gpd | framerate: if you ever get your n800 working again - there are cleartouch protectors for 770 - but people moan about difficult to apply | 18:09 |
| framerate | :( | 18:09 |
| X-Fade | framerate: Did you activate swap on a memorycard? | 18:09 |
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| framerate | whoa ok, i stopped paying attention and somehow it just booted up :/ | 18:10 |
| framerate | I'm currently back on the desktop | 18:10 |
| framerate | X-Fade: no, I didn't activate it yet | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | You can check the reboot reason.. | 18:10 |
| ||cw | with 128Meg ram you shouldn't need swap anymore | 18:10 |
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| Tak | heh | 18:11 |
| Tak | we'll find a way to use that ram | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | framerate: check /proc/bootreason | 18:11 |
| dwd | 128M of RAM should be enough for... Oh, wait. | 18:11 |
| ||cw | i'm sure I *could*, but with 64 I can use it up with a single web page | 18:11 |
| framerate | it has something to do with the memory card being corrupt, now when I try to open the card it crashes file manager | 18:11 |
| ||cw | I did say "need" | 18:12 |
| framerate | X-Fade: sw_rst | 18:12 |
| dwd | framerate: Ah, I've had that on the 770. You need to reformat the card. | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | framerate: and what does /var/lib/dsme/stats say? | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | You should be able to just cat that too.. | 18:12 |
| gpd | [am i correct that cards cannot be ext3?] | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | gpd: They can. You just have to load the kernel module.. | 18:13 |
| ||cw | they can, but it's not a good idea because of the write leveling | 18:13 |
| dwd | gpd: I think they can probably be anything you like, but ext3 isn't the best filesystem for those cards anyway. | 18:13 |
| pcfe | I've taklen the liberty to update http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories with those I found to have bora parts. Please do tell if this is OK and back out chnage if not | 18:13 |
| ||cw | journaling at the very least doubles the amount of write, if not more | 18:13 |
| framerate | X-Fade: can't cat it, it's a directory | 18:14 |
| gpd | ok - thanks for the info | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | framerate: cat the files under it, specifically lifeguard_resets | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | nah, ignore the others, just /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets | 18:15 |
| framerate | my memory card is working now, too.. this is odd... | 18:15 |
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| mgedmin | dmesg may contain interesting entries regarding your memory card | 18:16 |
| kender | hello | 18:16 |
| dragorn | arguably the flash mapper inside the card will do write-leveling internally to a moderate degree. I don't know of anyone doing proper testing on several cards to see what the true burnout rates are on modern cards, it's one of those things with a lot of warnings and not a lot of evidence. | 18:16 |
| Tak | afternoon, kender | 18:16 |
| framerate | X-Fade: /usr/bin/maemo_af_destop : 22 * | /usr/bin/obexsrv -1 : 1 | 18:16 |
| X-Fade | framerate: what mgedmin said. lifegard_resets lists which processes were a problem.. | 18:16 |
| kender | hey Tak ;-) | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | the bit with flash card burnout rates is just the opposite of what's been happening with CD-R disks, which used to claim 50+ years of lief | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | er, life | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | framerate: Yeah that means that the desktop component crashed.. | 18:17 |
| dragorn | especially if you mount it with noatime. I cranked heavy write cycles to a CF for a year (CF hdd in a car PC writing gps/wireless logs) and didn't break it. | 18:17 |
| framerate | dmesg has a bunch of "file system panics"... | 18:17 |
| gpd | do we know if the 770 and n800 screen are the same dimensions? product specs do not state iirc | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | framerate: my 770 reboots every now and then, out of the blue; usually maemo_af_desktop is blamed in that file | 18:18 |
| framerate | mgedmin: yeah I've noticed 800 rebooting a few times already too | 18:18 |
| dwd | I found my crash levels dropped hugely after I disabled swap. | 18:18 |
| framerate | is there a "format memory card" option hidden someplace? | 18:19 |
| dwd | framerate: Yes, on your desktop computer. :-) | 18:19 |
| gpd | [Nokia 770's screen width (91.65 mm), height (55.47 mm)] | 18:19 |
| dragorn | jffs has builtin leveling, of course it's theoretically possible (but probably highly unlikely) that the hw leveler and the jffs2 leveler will conflict and overload some sectors :P | 18:19 |
| framerate | when I USB connect I get "internal card in use unable to connect". Don't think I have my reader here :( | 18:19 |
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| Tak | 770 has a format card option | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | framerate: the file manager's menu has that option | 18:21 |
| gpd | [nokia n800 screen measured using old ikea tape measure(!) - 92mm x 55.5mm -- seems the same] | 18:21 |
| dwd | framerate: File Manager, Memory Card->Format | 18:21 |
| framerate | dwd: mgedmin: found it, trying now | 18:22 |
| framerate | Can someone link me to the download for the new OS? I think it's on nokiaeurope. The one mentioned on tableteer on the handset | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | framerate: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800.php perhaps | 18:23 |
| ||cw | it's not at meamo.org? | 18:23 |
| * mgedmin does not have a N800 serial number and is not allowed in there | 18:24 | |
| framerate | k I think this memory card is just fried | 18:24 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: hehe, me neither :) | 18:24 |
| framerate | formatting seeminly does nothing | 18:24 |
| framerate | hmm but a good card isn't recongized either... wtf | 18:25 |
| dragorn | did you reboot the unit? | 18:27 |
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| framerate | .. and now it's rebooting and crashing repeatedly again | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | framerate: disable the lifeguard reset with the flasher? | 18:33 |
| framerate | I've never used a flasher yet, just got this thing 2 days ago :/ | 18:33 |
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| framerate | I'm on a windows PC @ work right now, but I can't find the software nokia mentioned | 18:33 |
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| dwd | framerate: The windows flasher stuff is in the topic. | 18:34 |
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| framerate | k | 18:35 |
| Disconnect | dwd: not for r&d/lifeguard. just for sw updates | 18:35 |
| dwd | Or rather, a URL for it. Although the topic is getting so long that base64 encoding the binary wouldn't make much difference. | 18:35 |
| dwd | Disconnect: Oh, yes, sorry, should have read back further. | 18:35 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: :) | 18:41 |
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| framerate | installed new OS and it booted up fine first time, so I assume no hardware problems | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | you're pretty trusting ;) | 18:49 |
| framerate | haha | 18:49 |
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| framerate | hopeful, mgedmin. The word is hopeful :) | 18:50 |
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| dwd | denial, mgedmin. The word is denial :) | 18:51 |
| framerate | :/ | 18:52 |
| gpd | wrt the topic - an info|supy bot might be valuable in here | 18:52 |
| gpd | i sense that as more people buy n800s there will be FAQS! | 18:52 |
| gpd | [i can set my supybot to join the channel if you like]... must go to work :( | 18:54 |
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| framerate | all seems well with the tablet at the moment EXCEPT when I enter (henceforth known as) "the bad card" | 18:55 |
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| dwd | framerate: That needs titlecase - The Bad Card. Did The Bad Card come with the unit? | 18:56 |
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| framerate | has anyone been able to dialup wap.cingular on their Nokia 770/N800 yet for a DUN access? | 19:42 |
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| Fatal | heh, apple just announced they're launching a "internet communicator" | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | Yup | 19:43 |
| simon__ | Fatal, the long rumoured phone? | 19:44 |
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| Tak | I've heard about the internet - I can't wait to use it for communication! | 19:44 |
| kender | Fatal, the question is, OpenSourced? | 19:44 |
| kender | hehe | 19:44 |
| Jaffa | Ah, it's all one big device. | 19:44 |
| Fatal | reading the live coverage | 19:44 |
| kender | me too | 19:44 |
| Tak | apple? open-source? | 19:44 |
| Fatal | lol | 19:44 |
| kender | hehe | 19:44 |
| framerate | whoa | 19:44 |
| framerate | it's the iphone, internet communicator AND widescreen ipod | 19:45 |
| framerate | all in one product | 19:45 |
| kender | wow | 19:45 |
| MDK | fucking shit | 19:45 |
| MDK | I won fiver from onne | 19:45 |
| simon__ | urls? | 19:45 |
| kender | simon__, is in live, no urls | 19:45 |
| Fatal | macrumorslive.com | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | http://www.macrumorslive.com/ | 19:45 |
| Fatal | engadget.com | 19:46 |
| Fatal | and irc.macrumorslive.com #macrumors :) | 19:46 |
| Jaffa | "years of development" | 19:46 |
| Jaffa | <hype>Is this the end of the N800?</hype> | 19:46 |
| simon__ | well... i should study anyways so i'll wait for the full story at the end ;) | 19:46 |
| kender | hehehe | 19:46 |
| Jaffa | Size'll be critical. | 19:46 |
| kender | I don't think so, N800 is open source, that for me, is so important | 19:47 |
| koen | 'open source' | 19:47 |
| Jaffa | kender: not to Joe Public, it may end up just as a hacker | 19:47 |
| koen | kender: it's partly opensource | 19:47 |
| kender | yes, that's true | 19:47 |
| kender | koen, partialy? | 19:47 |
| kender | *partly | 19:47 |
| Fatal | "nobody want's a stylus" | 19:47 |
| daniels | oo, multitouch | 19:47 |
| * koen waits for a picture of the iphone | 19:48 | |
| mgedmin | the N800 is half-open-source, which is better than closed, but not as good as fully open-source | 19:48 |
| daniels | haha, patented. shock. | 19:48 |
| Fatal | :D | 19:48 |
| kender | mgedmin, agree | 19:49 |
| Jaffa | daniels: So Nokia has *no* patents on anything in the 770? | 19:49 |
| Fatal | :DD | 19:49 |
| kender | daniels, yes | 19:49 |
| kender | hehe | 19:49 |
| koen | "iphone runs OS X" | 19:49 |
| daniels | what the fuck? | 19:50 |
| koen | . o O (osx on arm?) | 19:50 |
| daniels | Jaffa: honestly, i don't know the answer to that question | 19:50 |
| daniels | koen: embedded ppc, i'd guess | 19:50 |
| Jaffa | koen: low power PPC?... snap | 19:50 |
| koen | http://media.macrumorslive.com/p/1168364876-thumb.jpg | 19:50 |
| Jaffa | Question is alternative formats like DivX on it | 19:52 |
| kender | and, wifi opened, not like the zune? | 19:52 |
| kender | hehehe | 19:52 |
| daniels | 'highest res screen ever shipped' | 19:53 |
| Tak | ...by apple :-P | 19:53 |
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| xan | I want a video of the thing already | 19:53 |
| Jaffa | 3.5" at 15:9 (say) at 160dpi, what's the pixel count? | 19:53 |
| daniels | haha, 160dpi | 19:54 |
| daniels | lame | 19:54 |
| kender | little screen, isn't it? | 19:54 |
| koen | heh | 19:54 |
| koen | "3.5 inch screen - highest res screen ever shipped" | 19:54 |
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| c0ffee | my laptop has 150dpi | 19:55 |
| bergie | "Steve disses PDA styluses. (Styli?) (Stylae?) Multi-touch technology "works like magic". (Laurie notes: "I have a draw full of styluses.") It ignores unintended touches, multi-finger gestures and has patents." | 19:55 |
| koen | the accelerometer is a nice touch | 19:56 |
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| Jaffa | Auto-rotation is neat. | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | Yeah. | 19:56 |
| koen | Jaffa: rock&scroll | 19:56 |
| keesj | koen, is it really there? | 19:57 |
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| Tak | res is 480x288 | 19:58 |
| Tak | at given dimensions and res | 19:58 |
| * lardman has difficulty reading upwards on Macrumours | 20:00 | |
| Jaffa | Tak: ta | 20:00 |
| Tak | and now...to lunch | 20:00 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone fancy working out the sizes form the images (assuming they're to scale) and the 11.6mm depth | 20:01 |
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| daniels_ | that is friggin shiny. | 20:01 |
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| Jaffa | Ah, there's a very small photo of it in someone's hand | 20:01 |
| daniels | http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0182.jpg | 20:02 |
| daniels | seriously, that is tight | 20:02 |
| koen | yes | 20:02 |
| koen | "slide to unlock" rocks as well | 20:02 |
| Jaffa | daniels: if nothing else, the bar has been raised on Nokia. | 20:02 |
| MDK | daniels: tigert had the idea for accelerometor long time ago | 20:02 |
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| daniels | heh. it looks like canola. ;) | 20:02 |
| Tak | for software, anyway | 20:02 |
| MDK | accellerometer i mean | 20:03 |
| Tak | the hardware's pretty underwhelming | 20:03 |
| Jaffa | MDK: ah, should've done it then ;-) | 20:03 |
| daniels | Tak: no, multitouch is _pimp_. | 20:03 |
| kender | pimp? | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | how do you find the N800 on the compusa website? | 20:04 |
| daniels | kender: really, really awesome | 20:04 |
| kender | hehehe | 20:04 |
| kender | ;-) | 20:04 |
| daniels | i saw a demo a while back of some music software using multitouch, it was incredible. | 20:04 |
| Disconnect | mgedmin: call them. not sure its on the site yet. | 20:04 |
| daniels | basically, you had a flat touchscreen horizontally in front of you, and you just dragged and dropped elements to their natural place to form pipelines. | 20:04 |
| daniels | you could rotate them to chance frequency/etc with multiple fingers (quite naturally), and also alter amplitude and whatnot similarly. it was incredible. | 20:05 |
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| framerate | 8 GB of storage? | 20:05 |
| Fatal | bah, no 3g, i skip | 20:05 |
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| * pahartik wonders about if it does have Bluetooth 2.0 | 20:07 | |
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| MDK | pahartik: it does bluetooth 2.0 | 20:08 |
| daniels | pahartik: bluetooth 2 and wifi | 20:08 |
| pahartik | Fatal: lack of WCDMA is annoying for sure | 20:08 |
| daniels | pahartik: lack of 3G is more irritating for me | 20:08 |
| daniels | wonder how well data entry works | 20:09 |
| Jaffa | A multi-touch chorded keyboard could be good | 20:09 |
| Fatal | oh well, i'm glad they didn't turn me into an apple fanboy this event either :) | 20:09 |
| VRe__ | Maybe now they can but phone on the internettablets as the genie is out of the bottle - and operators can mind anymore =) | 20:11 |
| daniels | the jazzmutant lemur was what i was talking about before, btw | 20:13 |
| * pahartik does not want telephone (or GPS) inside Nokia 770 or N800, as long as there is mobile uplink within Bluetooth range | 20:13 | |
| roope | iphone has HWR. | 20:14 |
| * Jaffa neither. | 20:14 | |
| Jaffa | Ooh, pinch for resizing photos. Really using multitouch :) | 20:14 |
| Fatal | oooh ooo.. and and!!! you can .. use a photo as a --- WALLPAPER --- | 20:15 |
| Fatal | :D | 20:15 |
| suihkulokki | hey, he's speaking to americans ;) | 20:16 |
| suihkulokki | he needs to explain to people why they need more than just good reception and long battery life from their phones =) | 20:16 |
| Jaffa | Fatal: and if you pop it in the dock... it's a photo frame! (Until the screen dims) | 20:17 |
| Fatal | \o/ | 20:17 |
| Fatal | :D | 20:17 |
| bergie | the multitouch stuff sounds really interesting | 20:17 |
| * bergie wants to get his 770 display more dirty ;-) | 20:17 | |
| Fatal | multitouch is a nice input | 20:17 |
| sxpert-work | multitouch for the 770 ? | 20:17 |
| Jaffa | Presumably it needs h/w as well as s/w support | 20:17 |
| daniels | well, yeah | 20:18 |
| bergie | does the 770/N800 touchscreen recognize more than one finger/stylus on it at a time? | 20:18 |
| daniels | no | 20:18 |
| bergie | well, that's it, then :-/ | 20:18 |
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| gummibaerchen | who ports maemo on the new Apple iPhone? | 20:19 |
| Jaffa | heh | 20:19 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: first you'd need to port linux ... | 20:19 |
| kender | gummibaerchen, hehehe | 20:19 |
| gummibaerchen | hehe, but the features on the keynote seem petty amazing, but what about the price? | 20:19 |
| Jaffa | and the availability | 20:20 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: and, more importantly, can you get it without being tied to cingular? | 20:20 |
| Fatal | they haven't announced the price yet | 20:20 |
| kender | no | 20:20 |
| kender | hehe | 20:20 |
| kender | 8 Gn | 20:20 |
| kender | Gb | 20:20 |
| gummibaerchen | daniels, at least for europe: YES, if its available here | 20:20 |
| kender | HD | 20:20 |
| Jaffa | Visual voicemail, for example, is going to require network/operator support | 20:20 |
| Fatal | mmm | 20:20 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: right -- big if | 20:20 |
| gummibaerchen | hehe, and hopefully gtk will run on it, for all the "real" apps ;) | 20:21 |
| gummibaerchen | anything about the CPU? | 20:21 |
| Fatal | nope | 20:21 |
| ||cw | aprently it already runs darwin, linux port can't be too hard | 20:21 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: no tech specs yet. presumably it's embedded ppc though (e.g. freescale), unless they've ported os x to arm or such. | 20:21 |
| Pio | did they mention any intention to allow and support third party development? | 20:21 |
| Pio | i mean, it *is* apple we are talking about | 20:21 |
| daniels | ||cw: well, you've got mystic shit like the bootloader when dealing with embedded | 20:21 |
| Jaffa | Port Hildon to Darwin would be easiest | 20:21 |
| Jaffa | Pio: not yet | 20:21 |
| gummibaerchen | daniels, don't think its ppc, after they switched to intel | 20:22 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: i386 is not an embedded platform | 20:22 |
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| florian_ | re | 20:22 |
| gummibaerchen | i didn't say it's an intel inside, daniels | 20:22 |
| gummibaerchen | ;) | 20:23 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: and they wouldn't have just ditched the ppc support from darwin/os x. remember that ppc has a long embedded lineage, including from people other than ibm. | 20:23 |
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| daniels | gummibaerchen: you think they ported to arm? mips? | 20:23 |
| arj | can one use the n770 GPS navigator from nokia with the n800? | 20:23 |
| ||cw | arm would make a lot of sence | 20:23 |
| gummibaerchen | daniels, not sure, maybe it has a fuel cell and an intel core 2 duo^^ | 20:24 |
| myren | i'm hpoing it has a coldfire processor personally. ;) | 20:24 |
| gummibaerchen | but, yeah, OS X on ppc would be the easiest for them | 20:24 |
| suihkulokki | ..and would give them insane application catalog from day 0 | 20:25 |
| daniels | 'can load multiple pages - to move on page shrinks somewhat and slides off to side of page similar in effect to Expose' | 20:25 |
| arj | and do anyone have a picture of the n770 navigation kit? I would like to know what the car holder looks like | 20:25 |
| daniels | sounds like the webcore stuff on s60, which is sweet | 20:25 |
| daniels | arj: it doesn't fit the n800 | 20:25 |
| arj | ok but the GPS device should work ok I guess? | 20:25 |
| roope | A bit depressing, really. | 20:26 |
| daniels | arj: indeed, it does | 20:26 |
| daniels | hm, either inbuilt gps, or location hints from the provider | 20:27 |
| obscure | say it guys - you're aroused | 20:28 |
| MDK | let's hold hands together and dance on symbian grave ;) | 20:28 |
| Jaffa | If it's too locked down for me to deploy my own code, though, I'm not interested. | 20:28 |
| * Jaffa homes | 20:29 | |
| daniels | nothing he's showed is at all new (multitouch, location hinting, touchscreen phones, finger interaction, media on phones), but the integration is cute | 20:29 |
| ||cw | multitouch is new on a portable device | 20:29 |
| MDK | accelerator is new | 20:29 |
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| * MDK wonders about the price | 20:30 | |
| ||cw | MDK: not realy, my old Kodak phone had that, it would rotate the photo for you if you had the camera sideways | 20:30 |
| obscure | daniels: you're just in denial :P good thing i didnt order an n800 | 20:30 |
| obscure | ^^ | 20:30 |
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| MDK | ||cw: didn't know that. Anways, there was/is NOTHING new in ipod when it debuted | 20:31 |
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| MDK | they take proven concepts and perfect them | 20:31 |
| daniels | obscure: don't get me wrong, it looks like a very nice device (for a closed phone). the integration is awesome. but there's no original innovation. | 20:31 |
| daniels | obscure: can you point to one element of this and say with a straight face that no-one has done that before? | 20:32 |
| Fatal | (except multitouch) | 20:32 |
| obscure | daniels: i was just being a pest :D | 20:32 |
| Fatal | ((which isn't that new, but first use)) | 20:32 |
| daniels | Fatal: no, it's not the first use | 20:32 |
| |tbb| | anyone got the navkit for the n770 allready | 20:33 |
| MDK | daniels: what would be than, in your eyes, a truly innovative device of 2007? | 20:34 |
| Fatal | daniels: oh, i suck :) where was it before? | 20:34 |
| daniels | Fatal: jazzmutant lemur | 20:34 |
| gummibaerchen | yeah apple + google i can see that coming..# | 20:34 |
| Fatal | did you just throw two random words at me? :) | 20:34 |
| daniels | Fatal: giyf | 20:35 |
| Fatal | 'google it you f**k' ? :) too many new acronyms | 20:35 |
| suihkulokki | MDK: except for service integration (and actual consumer availability:P) apple phone is very similar to myorigo smartphone from 2003 | 20:35 |
| daniels | Fatal: google is your friend | 20:35 |
| daniels | MDK: tbh, i don't know. | 20:35 |
| Fatal | ah | 20:35 |
| MDK | IMHO, there are hundreds of totally innovative concepts around | 20:37 |
| MDK | laying, just waiting to be picked | 20:37 |
| MDK | sometimes only availible to the geeks | 20:37 |
| |tbb| | damn the license key doesnt allowed to download support tools on there site | 20:37 |
| obscure | being innovative isn't that important anymore. making innovations available to end users is what's important | 20:38 |
| MDK | you just need to integrate/pack them nicely for the end user | 20:38 |
| MDK | and that's the hard part | 20:38 |
| daniels | MDK: exactly | 20:38 |
| suihkulokki | http://huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=44393690 | 20:38 |
| roope | That looks depressingly good. | 20:38 |
| roope | it doesn't really matter to be first (like myorigo) or like creative with mp3 players. ipod has "nothing really new" but it's still much better. | 20:39 |
| obscure | yep | 20:40 |
| MDK | daniels: ie, we have built-in camera in N800. We could have easily created an app/whatever to record a flick and post it to you tube | 20:40 |
| roope | myorigo has this motion control which is a really niec idea. | 20:40 |
| MDK | it would make n800 more attractive to a lot of users (maybe not the ones on this channel) | 20:40 |
| daniels | MDK: yeah, a 'social networking' device (i.e. seamless integration with last.fm, flickr, whatever) would certainly be interesting, and arguably a better application of pervasive connectivity than wikipedia | 20:41 |
| obscure | MDK: yep its those kind of things that people get wet for | 20:41 |
| obscure | normal people :) | 20:41 |
| koen | daniels: that would rock indeed | 20:41 |
| koen | daniels: but with some local cache, as tigert stated before | 20:41 |
| daniels | koen: nod | 20:42 |
| daniels | constant connectivity + full location information, is a powerful tool, and arguably an innovation in itself | 20:42 |
| daniels | it's how you use it that determines how many people are going to spring for it | 20:42 |
| daniels | (of course, it helps if you can make it friggin shiny) | 20:42 |
| framerate | interesting question for someone like me though... Do I keep my ipod, blackberry and N800? | 20:42 |
| framerate | or sell them all for iPhone... | 20:42 |
| Tak | I can't imagine iphone replacing my 770 | 20:43 |
| MDK | framerate: let's see the price | 20:43 |
| Tak | I thought they pegged the price at $299 | 20:43 |
| framerate | I *am* up for a new phone with my cinuglar contract | 20:43 |
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| gummibaerchen | framerate, lucky man | 20:44 |
| framerate | just spent 400 on the N800 though, and have a blackberry pearl | 20:44 |
| framerate | so it's a dilemma | 20:44 |
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| * koen dislikes large phones | 20:44 | |
| gummibaerchen | he said nothin about people outside the US | 20:44 |
| framerate | blackberry pearl is tiny, that's why I like it | 20:44 |
| koen | 6210 + n770 = great | 20:44 |
| framerate | I can't get my N800 to dial out on my blackberry using WAP, and theres no VPN on the N800 | 20:45 |
| framerate | Plus all the crashes I was getting earlier, I'm rather frustrated with it over all | 20:45 |
| MDK | shares +5% since he started speaking | 20:45 |
| MDK | framerate: there is VPN | 20:45 |
| daniels | oh, also with multitouch -- there's no real hardware for it, he's just using multiple mice, but the mpx stuff in x.org already allows you to do all that stuff (resizing with two cursors, etc), on the software side | 20:45 |
| MDK | framerate: for cisco that is | 20:45 |
| roope | apple has patents on the multitouch ui:s now. | 20:45 |
| framerate | If you're referring to openVPN I installed it, but the documentation isn't clear to someone who has never really done linux VPN work | 20:46 |
| roope | which is a bad thing (tm). | 20:46 |
| * pahartik would like to have new telephone just like Nokia 6310i, but updated to Bluetooth 2.0 and WCDMA... no need to add anything else | 20:46 | |
| koen | "5 hours of battery life" | 20:46 |
| daniels | roope: hopefully they get fucked on prior art | 20:46 |
| MDK | roope: yeah, was looking at it today | 20:46 |
| daniels | i'd be thrilled if peter's work on mpx counted as prior art. :) | 20:46 |
| daniels | 10:44 aminnovating like crazy | 20:46 |
| daniels | over 200 patents in it | 20:46 |
| MDK | framerate: yeah, it's darn hard to use | 20:46 |
| framerate | If nokia N800 had a one touch VPN connection I'd be pretty sold, honestly | 20:47 |
| kender | daniels, hehe | 20:47 |
| framerate | but I spend 8-12 hours a day in my office, no wifi except the VPN | 20:47 |
| Tak | vpn is too complicated for one touch | 20:47 |
| dushko | daniels: I saw a multitouch interface from some University on Youtube. | 20:47 |
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| gummibaerchen | nearly the price ;) | 20:47 |
| gummibaerchen | but the stupid site stop reloading :( | 20:47 |
| gummibaerchen | 10:47 am8GB model - $599 | 20:47 |
| gummibaerchen | 10:47 am4GB model - $499 | 20:47 |
| daniels | 8gb $600 | 20:47 |
| daniels | yeah | 20:47 |
| framerate | JUNE | 20:47 |
| framerate | problem solved | 20:48 |
| gummibaerchen | JUNE? | 20:48 |
| * framerate sighs of relief | 20:48 | |
| daniels | heh, not fcc approved. they don't know how to do zero-day releases. | 20:48 |
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| Tak | lol | 20:48 |
| daniels | nokia totally has them beat there, we did a minus-two-day release. ;) | 20:48 |
| MDK | haha | 20:48 |
| roope | they might not even get fucked. their patent was filed quite early. at least all the research/videos i've seen of multitouch have come after that date. | 20:48 |
| daniels | asia in 2008? lame. | 20:48 |
| gummibaerchen | they should stop the future announcements, that's not apple style | 20:48 |
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| daniels | roope: how early? | 20:48 |
| daniels | roope: i think peter's work in particular dates back to 2008 | 20:48 |
| suihkulokki | back to future? | 20:49 |
| roope | ... is ... | 20:49 |
| roope | I had a "The goggles they do nothing!" moment when i tried to read that year. | 20:49 |
| gummibaerchen | cal4 for europe, so that's at the start of winter.. great, then i get a new phone from my contract ;) | 20:49 |
| daniels | nope, looks like peter only got stuff working in april 2006. :\ | 20:50 |
| roope | At least 2004, or before. | 20:50 |
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| daniels | roope: damn. | 20:51 |
| MDK | 499$ and 599$ that's still cheaper than nseries | 20:51 |
| gummibaerchen | but replacing the iPod was the best they could do | 20:51 |
| gummibaerchen | so they will get a big market share | 20:51 |
| ||cw | haha "we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this. " | 20:51 |
| roope | That will sell like hotcakes. If that's the expression. | 20:51 |
| gummibaerchen | MDK, maybe the "big" ones, but you get a N73 for 400€ | 20:52 |
| konttori | VPN setup should consist on only setting the IP / name, port (if necessary) and protocol. After it's setup, it should be one click. | 20:52 |
| gummibaerchen | and that's a very nice phone ;) (at least the Stick is ten times better than on my SE K800) | 20:52 |
| daniels | MDK: the n800's part of the nseries, y'know ;) | 20:52 |
| konttori | Or it should be possible to force VPN to be always setup automatically on every connection. | 20:52 |
| suihkulokki | $499 *with* 2y contract | 20:52 |
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| MDK | daniels: true, I'd say n800 is reasonably priced | 20:53 |
| ||cw | with 4Gig of storage | 20:53 |
| Tak | tied to cingular, too | 20:53 |
| gummibaerchen | suihkulokki, what? that's VERY expensive | 20:53 |
| MDK | daniels: though my n80, being 600e, is far too much | 20:53 |
| MDK | daniels: I'd have never paid so much for this phone myself | 20:53 |
| daniels | MDK: i'm frightened to think of how much my n90 would've cost | 20:53 |
| daniels | MDK: yeah, you don't say ... | 20:53 |
| ||cw | and it's a smartphone, claims to be OSX so adding apps should be not hard | 20:53 |
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| xan | "We're announcing it today because we have to go get FCC approval... we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this." | 20:53 |
| Lateralus | what method do you guys use to determine 770 vs 800? | 20:53 |
| xan | I think that goes for us? :) | 20:53 |
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| wasabi | Howdy. Anybody have any docs about the .install files? | 20:54 |
| MDK | xan: hah | 20:54 |
| koen | Lateralus: easy: the 770 is on my desk, so n800 :) | 20:54 |
| * tko hates missing all the fun stuff during the day | 20:54 | |
| daniels | xan: 'we thought it'd be better to introduce this today than let CompUSA introduce this.' | 20:54 |
| daniels | tko: you don't have to, y'know ... | 20:54 |
| Lateralus | ah, the undocumented is_770_on_desk() | 20:54 |
| kender | daniels, hehe | 20:55 |
| daniels | this thing is going to sell billions | 20:55 |
| gummibaerchen | ok but the high price and the very fact that you are tied to some provider aren't very good | 20:55 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: not that high when compared to things like the n-series | 20:55 |
| gummibaerchen | so there must be a successor for the iPod | 20:55 |
| tko | daniels, I'm trying to make a point to an organization pretending to be involved in open source | 20:55 |
| daniels | i think the rokr or whatever it's called is also really expensive | 20:55 |
| florian | wasabi: http://maemo.org///platform/docs/howtos/howto_making_an_application_package_bora.html#Single-Click-Install | 20:56 |
| daniels | tko: makes sense ;) | 20:56 |
| gummibaerchen | daniels, but normally (at least in germany) no provider list that expensive phones | 20:56 |
| wasabi | Sweet. I remember talking to one of ya'll about this... | 20:56 |
| wasabi | wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt | 20:56 |
| gummibaerchen | (except nokias communicator and BB) | 20:56 |
| wasabi | Basically teh same idea. | 20:56 |
| ||cw | gummibaerchen: the iPhone dwarfs both of those in features | 20:57 |
| roope | That will sell at that price like crazy. | 20:57 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: depends. if they sell it outright for anything like that ... | 20:57 |
| gummibaerchen | ||cw, yeah, and the HDD is amazing | 20:57 |
| daniels | gummibaerchen: (my sony-ericsson k700i was $au700 outright, iirc.) | 20:57 |
| gummibaerchen | that is what I am missing for the N800 | 20:57 |
| ||cw | take your most expensive touchscreen smartphone and add the code of 4Gig flash storage | 20:57 |
| ||cw | then you have thing to compair | 20:57 |
| Tak | [48]G HD is amazing? | 20:57 |
| |tbb| | anyone got the navkit for the 770 allready (anyone but florian) | 20:58 |
| Tak | so slap a couple of 2G SDs into your n800 and call it good | 20:58 |
| gummibaerchen | Tak, better than just slots :D but 30GB like a "real" iPod would rock | 20:58 |
| daniels | tko: speaking of open source, you still have code with the advertising clause? | 20:58 |
| ||cw | gummibaerchen: you can have 4G on the n800, for another, what, $100? and it's still not a phone | 20:58 |
| daniels | tko: i was flipping through the manual and noticed that. as well as the nvidia acknowledgement, since i forgot to take it out of xorg-server's copyright file. oops. | 20:58 |
| Tak | gummibaerchen: I'd rather have slots, because then I can swap out HDs at my leisure | 20:58 |
| gummibaerchen | Tak, depends, one slot is enough imho, if you have builtin hdd | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | depends on the size of the builtin hdd, I guess | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | I never remove my rs-mmc card because without the data on it my 770 would be useless to me | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | well, and also because it contains the swap file ;) | 21:01 |
| Tak | I swap mine in and out | 21:01 |
| Tak | I have one full of music, one full of movies | 21:01 |
| tko | daniels, yeah, some branch of pppd has it. I've lost count how many different distros / bsd's I've relicensed the code to without the advertising clause :) | 21:01 |
| tko | daniels, so it was you!1 | 21:02 |
| MDK | hah | 21:02 |
| MDK | tko: maybe we ask him we he broke the wrapping? ;) | 21:02 |
| tko | nice solution to copyright licensing issues. just remove the copyright notices :) | 21:02 |
| MDK | *if | 21:02 |
| tko | not if, when or why? | 21:03 |
| MDK | daniels: did you breake wrapping in gtk? We're trying to find a guilty for a few months already | 21:03 |
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| xan | I hear this wrapping thing works ok on the iPhone, we could order a few just to see how you do it properly | 21:04 |
| gummibaerchen | hmm, so what will be new iPod be like, must be 40GB at least | 21:04 |
| MDK | xan: haha | 21:04 |
| Tak | maybe nokia can release a "phonekit" addon (ala navkit) for n800 | 21:05 |
| MDK | btw, this apple tv is sweet too, and not that expensive | 21:05 |
| * koen still needs to buy a car charger for the n770 | 21:05 | |
| daniels | MDK: how would i do that? | 21:05 |
| koen | and 6210 | 21:05 |
| daniels | tko: i think the nvidia thing was me | 21:06 |
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| Tak | what's the pixel density on the n785±15 ? | 21:08 |
| MDK | ~220 | 21:09 |
| daniels | heh, nice try, but the 770 isn't n | 21:09 |
| Tak | lol | 21:09 |
| daniels | and yeah, about 220 | 21:09 |
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| tko | 225, 226 IIRC | 21:09 |
| Tak | but 160 is "the highest ever shipped in a portable device!" | 21:09 |
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| daniels | sourcing a multi-touch capable 220dpi screen could be ... interesting | 21:09 |
| daniels | Tak: yeah, that's complete bullshit | 21:09 |
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| gummibaerchen | thanks for joining us - the keynote is now over | 21:11 |
| gummibaerchen | hmm ok, that was all | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | Tak: is that a quote from today's macworld? | 21:12 |
| daniels | mgedmin: no, jobs said it in his keynote | 21:12 |
| daniels | er, yeah, thought you meant the magazine, sorry. been at work too long. | 21:12 |
| Tak | hmm | 21:13 |
| Tak | actually it looks like jobs actually said, "highest resolution screen we've ever shipped, 160ppi." | 21:13 |
| Tak | tuaw.com has the quote I pasted | 21:13 |
| florian | brb | 21:13 |
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| roope | http://www.apple.com/iphone/ | 21:15 |
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| daniels | ah, looks like macrumorslive mistranscribed | 21:16 |
| daniels | surprising that it doesn't have im though, for a 'breakthrough internet device' | 21:16 |
| daniels | im + locality information is where it's at | 21:16 |
| daniels | something could pop up saying 'hey, tigert's in ikea too, you should go bug him about the x.org logo' ;) | 21:17 |
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| Aleksandyr | good morning #maemo-world. | 21:17 |
| keesj | ipod screen resolution 320x480 ha ha ha | 21:19 |
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| daniels | keesj: haha, ouch | 21:19 |
| daniels | still, it looks _lush_ within that | 21:19 |
| VRe__ | well, if nextgen tablet (830? :) will have wimax, it almost towards phone space.. add accelometers, gps/galileo and good buttons for gaming and it would be excelent | 21:19 |
| daniels | thanks to the 160dpi thing | 21:19 |
| keesj | but the rest sounds good http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html | 21:19 |
| roope | It's not really about the HW, but about the SW. | 21:20 |
| VRe__ | I think the resolution is enough for most of the use | 21:20 |
| Aleksandyr | roope: agreed. | 21:20 |
| roope | The general consumer couldn't care less about wimax and all that shit. | 21:20 |
| daniels | VRe__: not for browsing | 21:20 |
| VRe__ | now I watch videos which are 400x240 or so and doubled | 21:20 |
| VRe__ | daniels: Yeah, surfing and reading | 21:20 |
| MDK | roope: true | 21:21 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: with google and yahoo providing data to it? I don't know, could be compelling | 21:21 |
| Aleksandyr | anyone have a good reference on how to change file associations in Maemo? | 21:21 |
| VRe__ | roope: Exept when they start to use wimax for everything :) | 21:21 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: It'll use the freedesktop.org specs, I think. | 21:21 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: And I *think* there was something in one of the tutorials about it. | 21:22 |
| MDK | iTunes behind all this is a kinda big thing | 21:22 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: yyyyyyes, but I was hoping for a specific example I could modify. | 21:22 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: I'll poke around, ty | 21:22 |
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| daniels | shit, 9:30, i've been at work until after everything's shut except maccas, again | 21:26 |
| daniels | i hate this country sometimes | 21:26 |
| myren | 160 dpi at 3.5 inches, 16:9, is 488x274 | 21:29 |
| myren | i am unimpressed | 21:29 |
| daniels | myren: it's 320x480 | 21:29 |
| VRe__ | normal consumer doens't care what is the resolution as long it looks good.. | 21:29 |
| myren | daniels: thats not at all widescreen | 21:30 |
| myren | talk about non-square pixels | 21:30 |
| myren | VRe__: does _anyone_ in this room give a rats ass about normal consumers | 21:30 |
| VRe__ | Lets see what is released by other vendors by the time iphone really ships | 21:30 |
| myren | we are pretty far divergent from most technical consumers, much less a normal pedestrial consumer | 21:31 |
| daniels | well, presumably the usability person/interaction designer/please correct your job title, does. :) | 21:31 |
| myren | i am a interaction designer | 21:31 |
| myren | and i revolt at modern interface | 21:31 |
| myren | applications are the devil | 21:31 |
| daniels | ah, you and roope would have a right old time. :) | 21:31 |
| VRe__ | myren: Well, atleast when I do software I _try_ to think the normal consumer | 21:31 |
| Tak | I got 480x288 | 21:31 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm a grad student with a sub-specialty in HCI, and the 770 makes me twitch ;) | 21:32 |
| myren | yeah, presuming square pixels Tak | 21:32 |
| Tak | yes | 21:32 |
| myren | Aleksandyr: i'm planning my own UI. | 21:32 |
| Aleksandyr | myren: it's not just the UI, to be fair, it's most of the experience | 21:32 |
| MDK | daniels: are you aware of any problems with host xorg/xephyr version causing BadRequest 138 when starting meamo desktop? | 21:33 |
| daniels | MDK: what exactly is 138? | 21:34 |
| MDK | tko: remember what was it? Bad Window? | 21:34 |
| MDK | no | 21:34 |
| MDK | sorry | 21:34 |
| MDK | I'm talking bullshit | 21:34 |
| tko | MDK, couldn't figure out which extension | 21:34 |
| myren | user interaction has become defined by a little bit of WM chrome and application button/toolbar layouts. | 21:34 |
| daniels | right, if the extension number is >= 64, it's dynamic | 21:34 |
| myren | pretty bullshit | 21:34 |
| roope | the iphone site now has working videos. | 21:35 |
| roope | All those transitions and animations... *sigh* | 21:35 |
| tko | daniels, 64 ? you mean >= 127 means it's extension? | 21:35 |
| daniels | er, probably, yeah | 21:35 |
| daniels | tko: xdpyinfo -queryExtensions | 21:35 |
| tko | daniels, we tried xdpyinfo -ext all | 21:35 |
| MDK | daniels: we've got a set of gtk packages that cause my sbox to fault once installed | 21:35 |
| tko | queryExtensions looks much better | 21:36 |
| MDK | but same packages work elsewhere | 21:36 |
| myren | 480x/win 6 | 21:36 |
| myren | 480x320? wtf? | 21:36 |
| roope | I care about the normal consumers. :) | 21:36 |
| ntrs | How can I get Java Runtime on my N800? | 21:36 |
| MDK | daniels: interestingly, it fails on two of my machines | 21:36 |
| daniels | MDK: nice | 21:36 |
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| MDK | daniels: which makes me think, it has SOMETHING to do with the distribution packages I'm running | 21:36 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: define java runtime? | 21:36 |
| MDK | the packages work on target BTW | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: my JamVM/Classpath/Jikes packages will work, but you can't do much with them. | 21:37 |
| ntrs | something to run Java applets in a browser | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: that's currently impossible | 21:37 |
| daniels | MDK: well, let me know which extension it is, and i'll try to get it sorted | 21:37 |
| ntrs | ah, I see | 21:37 |
| ferulo | MDK: didn't you solve your problem with the xserver? | 21:37 |
| ntrs | I saw a post somewhere that your JamVM worked for applets in minimo | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: I don't believe anyone's gotten user-defined plugins to work in Opera | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: hah! news to me, but that would be awesome. | 21:37 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, what about minimo? | 21:37 |
| MDK | ferulo: nope. The packages break my sbox at home too | 21:38 |
| myren | is the mono port up to day? | 21:38 |
| Aleksandyr | (see previous statement.) | 21:38 |
| myren | *up to date? | 21:38 |
| ferulo | MDK: that's because your crappy distro... | 21:38 |
| ferulo | man, you're using the same distro as eugenia | 21:38 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, look at this: http://sebas-nokia770.blogspot.com/2006/12/java-on-nokia-770-simple-and-easy.html | 21:38 |
| MDK | daniels: XFIXES | 21:38 |
| ntrs | I tried the same thing on n800 and it does not show the applets in minimo | 21:38 |
| konttori | I must say that the calling interface looks quite terrific on iphone | 21:38 |
| konttori | http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/ | 21:39 |
| tko | MDK, what was the minor number? | 21:39 |
| MDK | ferulo: dude, I have to. She won't let me switch. | 21:39 |
| daniels | MDK: oh god | 21:39 |
| roope | konttori: yeah. | 21:39 |
| MDK | tko: minor code 2 | 21:39 |
| myren | eugenia? of former osnews glory & fame | 21:39 |
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| konttori | It looks like it's been thought through and through | 21:39 |
| daniels | MDK: _two_? | 21:39 |
| myren | what distro is this you speak of? | 21:39 |
| MDK | daniels: (Details: serial 321 error_code 1 request_code 138 minor_code 2) | 21:40 |
| MDK | myren: archlinux | 21:40 |
| daniels | MDK: you are running with --sync, right? | 21:40 |
| MDK | daniels: nope | 21:40 |
| daniels | MDK: right ... do that | 21:40 |
| myren | archlinux? wtf? | 21:40 |
| MDK | daniels: is there a script param to do that? | 21:40 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: ...interesting. | 21:40 |
| roope | text input from a touch screen is worse than from buttons, but apart from that steve is pretty much right. | 21:41 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: "not well packed" ouch! It hurts abit ;) | 21:41 |
| konttori | I also like the image viewers way of moving from one photo to another. It's exactly the way that I'd like maemos image viewer to work. FBReader should also support that kind of page turning | 21:41 |
| Milhouse | i fear for the N800 after the "iPhone" announcement! | 21:41 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, it is well packed. I did not have any dependency issues when installing on n800 | 21:41 |
| MDK | hmm, I see only --valgrind and --gdb | 21:41 |
| Tak | eh, they're products for different markets | 21:41 |
| Milhouse | fair bit of overlap, no? | 21:42 |
| daniels | MDK: script param? | 21:42 |
| konttori | They are still competing on different markets, although the gap is not that big. | 21:42 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: was quoting that article ;) | 21:42 |
| daniels | MDK: oh, to the af scripts? no idea, i try to avoid those ... | 21:42 |
| konttori | One thing where that thing totally owns maemo, is mail ;) | 21:42 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, I know. Just wanted to make you feel better. | 21:42 |
| konttori | Well, that's not much said. I'm pretty sure commondore 64 has better email clients | 21:42 |
| Milhouse | screen on the iphone (480x320) doesn't compare to the N800s but most people won't appreciate that and still buy the iPhone | 21:42 |
| Tak | well - iphone is 4g ipod + phone + crappy browser, tied to cingular | 21:43 |
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| roope | the browser doesn't look crappy. | 21:43 |
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| Aleksandyr | ntrs: obliged :D I'll try it out and see what happens on my 770. Never imagined it would work... | 21:43 |
| Milhouse | probably competes more with symbian music phones such as SonyEricssons W950i (4GB phone) | 21:43 |
| ntrs | Aleksandyr, I want it for N800 | 21:43 |
| roope | it's probably this webkit/safari. | 21:43 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: step one is figuring out how it works at all :D I had no idea minimo would work with it. | 21:44 |
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| ntrs | Aleksandyr, hehe :) OK | 21:44 |
| Milhouse | now that Apple have introduced the iPhone running OS X for internet tablets, do you think they are going to cut support for their existing desktop products? I bought one last week and I'll be really pissed if they do! | 21:44 |
| roope | ;) | 21:44 |
| Tak | lol | 21:45 |
| pokute_ | :-) | 21:45 |
| konttori | Do they have pics / video on how the internet browser actually works. http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/osx.html doesn't look usable | 21:45 |
| roope | It's a really great move from apple. Thinking about products converging. If it's really macosx. | 21:45 |
| konttori | I love it. | 21:45 |
| konttori | I still like my phone to be smaller than that | 21:45 |
| roope | konttori: http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/ | 21:45 |
| VRe__ | roope: I don't like the vertical surfing, I prefer horizontal. But I really wonder how well the smaller thumbkeyboard works on the device | 21:46 |
| roope | well, that supports landspace/vertical rotation. | 21:46 |
| Tak | it "won't let you make mistakes" ! | 21:46 |
| konttori | thanks roope. | 21:46 |
| Milhouse | i suppose in reality this iphone competes with WinCE and Symbian rather than N800 | 21:46 |
| roope | It depends kind of. If you put predictive input on top of the keyboard, the size is about enough. | 21:47 |
| pokute_ | I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone is even less Mac os X than Nokia IT OS 2006 is a linux+gnome. | 21:47 |
| Milhouse | Looks very nice, tempting come the next phone upgrade (assuming they launch it gloablly - it's quad band) | 21:47 |
| VRe__ | Well, more or less they are on the same field. I don't think person who buys iPhone is going to get n800 | 21:47 |
| VRe__ | or vice versa | 21:47 |
| * gpd grumbles about new iPhone | 21:47 | |
| roope | Those videos are probably simulations / fakes, but. | 21:47 |
| daniels | oh, ffs. don't tell me my password's expired again. | 21:47 |
| Tak | I don't think I could swallow $[56]00 + 2-year cingular contract | 21:47 |
| pokute_ | The price is pretty steep though. | 21:48 |
| glass_ | it's expensive | 21:48 |
| konttori | By the way, will the device sport that kind of 'light circle arrow'? I like the idea of that. Could someone implement that to maemo? | 21:48 |
| tko | MDK, btw, we should bring up the application theming extension on #gtk+ or the list | 21:48 |
| roope | well, it's used in the video to indicate finger position. | 21:48 |
| glass_ | especially when you'd expect a full smartphone platform device at that pricerange | 21:48 |
| pokute_ | I wonder how big monthly fees the contract will have and the call costs - that'll define the real price. | 21:48 |
| roope | The finger would cover the circle so you wouldn't see it anyway. ;) | 21:48 |
| Milhouse | VRe: i suspect you are correct | 21:48 |
| konttori | Roope: Yeah. Although it would be nice for maemo to support feather touch to indicate 'mouse' and full touch to click. | 21:49 |
| konttori | roope: true | 21:49 |
| pokute_ | tko: Application theming? Tell me! :-D | 21:49 |
| Milhouse | is $500/600 the unsubsidised price? | 21:49 |
| VRe__ | konttori: Nice idea | 21:49 |
| glass_ | milh: afaik it's the price with 2y contract | 21:49 |
| roope | Well. There is stylus/finger detection already. | 21:49 |
| Milhouse | shit... | 21:49 |
| VRe__ | like make the circle darker when the pressure is greater | 21:49 |
| Milhouse | thats pretty steep | 21:49 |
| glass_ | milh: which yes, means assload costs for unsub | 21:50 |
| Milhouse | wouldn't fly over here in the UK except amongst total macheads | 21:50 |
| c0ffee | fascinating | 21:50 |
| daniels | roope: actually, it's full pressure. you can differentiate between light and heavy presses. | 21:50 |
| c0ffee | scratchbox appears to work after a day of hacking | 21:50 |
| tko | pokute_, ability for applications / someone else ship a application-specific gtkrc to put in /usr/share/themes/foobar/gtk-2.0/ and it would work as one would expect | 21:50 |
| VRe__ | I think the iphone is going to be really expensive without operator subdiaries | 21:50 |
| roope | daniels: Yes. But it's really hard to press so hard with the stylus to go over the threshold. | 21:51 |
| roope | You'll break your screen before it. :) | 21:51 |
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| pokute_ | tko: That sounds like a bad idea. Shouldn't they just load an overwriting rc file when starting? | 21:51 |
| daniels | roope: sure, but just saying that detecting is an app issue; you can already pick light vs heavy presses in the app. | 21:51 |
| gpd | is EDGE better / faster than EVDO ? | 21:51 |
| konttori | edge is like 128 | 21:51 |
| roope | daniels: Yes. | 21:51 |
| konttori | kbps | 21:51 |
| daniels | although it is asymptotic at about pressure 115; 110 is a hard press, and 115 is drilling a hole through your screen | 21:51 |
| daniels | (i spent about a day sitting there working out the pressure values) | 21:52 |
| tko | pokute_, umm, that's exactly the point | 21:52 |
| roope | They're very good, thanks for those. :) | 21:52 |
| Tak | c0ffee: cool - publish a howto? | 21:52 |
| Milhouse | I wonder what the mail client is like on the iPhone - maybe Nokia can get one and learn how it should be done? | 21:52 |
| Milhouse | :) | 21:52 |
| Guardian | wow | 21:53 |
| Guardian | iphone, competition | 21:53 |
| daniels | Milhouse: in july? | 21:53 |
| c0ffee | Tak, 'ignore all errors' | 21:53 |
| Tak | lol | 21:53 |
| daniels | roope: heh, no worries | 21:53 |
| pokute_ | tko: I mean with code. like gtk_something_load_rc ("/usr/share/application_data/xbill.rc") ; | 21:53 |
| daniels | roope: thank my pre-b1's touchscreen ;) | 21:53 |
| Tak | that's how I live my life :-P | 21:53 |
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| Milhouse | daniels: any time would do - the current client is crud | 21:53 |
| daniels | roope: i don't think the poor thing ever recovered | 21:53 |
| ||cw | heh http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-game-has-changed/ | 21:54 |
| daniels | yeah | 21:54 |
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| Knowledge_ | so about this iphone....that or the 800? | 21:54 |
| ||cw | iphone's 6 months away and already shaking up the cell phone world | 21:54 |
| daniels | wonder if anyone went around shorting stocks | 21:54 |
| tko | pokute_, you can do that already | 21:54 |
| roope | Symbian/n-series should be the most worried. | 21:54 |
| tko | pokute_, but that can't play along with overall theming | 21:55 |
| roope | not in the short term: jobs said that they want 1% market share at first. | 21:55 |
| gpd | I still think having a phone that big is going to be really annoying -- the internet tablet|scree and phone is the way to go. | 21:55 |
| glass_ | 1% would be pretty big | 21:55 |
| roope | 10 million devices, yeah. | 21:55 |
| Milhouse | my major use case is internet browsing so the 800x480 screen on the N800 (compared to 480 x 320 on iPhone) makes it a no brainer: N800 | 21:55 |
| Tak | so can nokia develop a phone module for the n800 in 6 months? | 21:55 |
| pokute_ | tko: Gtk+ will have a hard time accepting anything if it may break existing usage. | 21:55 |
| glass_ | can't see it happening with the current device at such ridiculous price(guessing what it would cost without 2y contract) | 21:55 |
| MDK | pokute_: it doesn't break existing usage | 21:55 |
| Knowledge_ | The way I figure, is you're already carrying a 770 or 800...AND a phone...why not carry just one thing | 21:55 |
| Milhouse | at those prices Jobs will be lucky to get 0.1 market share | 21:56 |
| konttori | Does N800 support multitouch? | 21:56 |
| daniels | konttori: no | 21:56 |
| glass_ | tak: why would they need? they got phones coming out, phones with browsers and thats what iphone is | 21:56 |
| VRe__ | For many phonemakers iPhone is welcome sight.. now they can start to do many things which they have feared because of the operators | 21:56 |
| c0ffee | is there somewhere information about the video chat protocol used by gchat? | 21:56 |
| Knowledge_ | what's multi touch? | 21:56 |
| ||cw | is it 480x320? looks like more | 21:56 |
| MDK | pokute_: besides, gnome/gtk hasn't been able to solve the theming issue for years | 21:56 |
| Milhouse | daniles: could it support multi-touch? | 21:56 |
| daniels | Knowledge_: recognising multiple fingers on the touchscreen, instead of one | 21:56 |
| daniels | Milhouse: no | 21:56 |
| tko | pokute_, you don't need to educate me about what's acceptable for gtk :) | 21:56 |
| Knowledge_ | nooo shit | 21:56 |
| glass_ | cw: pr pics can be deceiving | 21:56 |
| Milhouse | 480x320 according to engadget | 21:56 |
| tko | I'm painfully aware of it | 21:56 |
| Milhouse | daniels: shame! | 21:56 |
| Knowledge_ | wow...that's pretty cool, but what's the point of that? | 21:56 |
| glass_ | apples site has the reso too | 21:56 |
| pokute_ | tko: Taking into account all the stuff you've tried to get accepted, I think you indeed may need educating. Tho I'm not to one to do it. :-D | 21:57 |
| ferulo | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6379146923853181774&q=multitouch <-- multitouch screen | 21:57 |
| gpd | Knowledge_: for me -- if i want JUST my phone - eg. on a hike -- i don't want to have to bring the rest | 21:57 |
| tko | MDK, I think we want to introduce gtk-fallback-theme-name (similar to gtk-fallback-icon-theme) GtkSetting | 21:57 |
| Knowledge_ | Ok, here's the deal, I have a 770, I could do the root to mem card mod, take the mem card out and tell compusa it's not booting and get another one under warranty....sell it on ebay, or get store credit and get an 800...which should I do? | 21:58 |
| pokute_ | MDK: If you can do it without breaking anything, good. | 21:58 |
| Knowledge_ | gpd: good call | 21:58 |
| MDK | tko: yes. That sounds good | 21:58 |
| c0ffee | when i search for 'gchat video' the first hit is about girl sluts :) | 21:58 |
| pokute_ | But still, gtk+ themeing sucks. :-) Sucks big time. :-) | 21:58 |
| tko | pokute_, sufficient to say I only inherited most of the hacks | 21:58 |
| pokute_ | tko: :-D | 21:58 |
| Milhouse | the iPhone looks a bit like the FIC device | 21:58 |
| konttori | I wonder if the example videos are 'target renderings' or actual performance. Especially switching between apps seems lightning fast on that device. | 21:59 |
| konttori | Has there been actual performance videos at all? | 21:59 |
| glass_ | or myorigo | 21:59 |
| glass_ | hmm | 21:59 |
| Knowledge_ | wowwww....that multi touch is nuts! | 21:59 |
| roope | Target renderings most likely. | 21:59 |
| glass_ | konttori: afaik no | 21:59 |
| pokute_ | iphone looks just like what a 7710 -derivate would look today. :-D | 21:59 |
| pokute_ | konttori: Yeah, I won't believe anything about the speed or fancy 3d-effects before they show me the shakycam. | 22:00 |
| konttori | So, all this stuff should be taken with a few grains of salt. Looks nice, Ui is brilliant (and should be learned from for Maemo), but actual use may not be that brilliant (won't be nad either) | 22:00 |
| glass_ | with a LOT of salt | 22:01 |
| konttori | But still, it's withing plausible limit's. I've made quite similiar stuff on 770 on python, so it's not that far off. | 22:01 |
| Milhouse | Looking at the Google video, I wonder how effective mutli-touch will prove to be on a 3.5" screen? | 22:02 |
| Knowledge_ | or should I keep the 770? | 22:02 |
| VRe__ | konttori: The google maps downloaded really fast :) | 22:02 |
| roope | If only our UI toolkit would support stuff like that *coughcough* | 22:02 |
| Milhouse | bear in mind the demo is on like a 21"+ screen | 22:02 |
| glass_ | milhouse: depends hos small fingers you have | 22:02 |
| daniels | roope: well, x supports that, so it's down to gtk. :) tommi and xan will have it ready for you by thursday. | 22:02 |
| glass_ | milhouse: if you have a hand as small as the guy on http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/ then why not | 22:02 |
| Milhouse | holding the device in your left hand, shakily using two fingers on the screen - might be tricky! | 22:02 |
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| roope | Great. | 22:02 |
| Milhouse | I'm not Jeremy Beadle! | 22:03 |
| konttori | So, does the hardware on 770/N800 support multiple touch points? | 22:03 |
| inz | has anoyone tried using 770 as a bt keyboard for N800 with xkbd-bthid? | 22:03 |
| daniels | konttori: _no_ | 22:03 |
| roope | konttori: as daniels said, no. | 22:03 |
| roope | Apple has also patented those interactions anyway. | 22:04 |
| konttori | Ok. Most of them can be simulated by using the select button. | 22:04 |
| roope | Yeah, it's kind of a mode switch, essentially. | 22:04 |
| konttori | Put finger to a location. Press select and keep it pressed. Move finger to right -> scale | 22:04 |
| tko | daniels, oh, gtk is already done. we just need fancy graphics and little support from applications | 22:05 |
| tko | ;) | 22:05 |
| konttori | Allows pretty much every two finger effect and no patent issues ;) Happy campers! | 22:05 |
| *** mgedmin changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 770 updates will continue but Bora (OS2007) is not backported | No, the N800 does *not* support" | 22:06 | |
| Milhouse | what do you mean by "interactions"? | 22:06 |
| pokute_ | Hmm. According to specs, the iPhone is 3 cm "shorter", 1 cm "narrower" and 9mm "thinner" | 22:06 |
| *** mgedmin changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 770 updates will continue but Bora (OS2007) is not backported | No, the N800 does *not* support multi touch" | 22:06 | |
| Milhouse | or patented the mutli-touch screen? | 22:06 |
| daniels | mgedmin: thanks | 22:07 |
| konttori | roope means that all the thing you can do by using two fingers as opposed to one finger. They have specified many such effects (scaling, rotating, scrolling)... | 22:07 |
| tko | hmm, the iphone dial buttons don't look like view buttons *cough* | 22:07 |
| * gpd remains slightly rattled | 22:07 | |
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| roope | Um. | 22:07 |
| roope | Of course you can go around it, but since the very point is the multi-touch thingy. Of course actions can be provided by other means. | 22:08 |
| vandenoever | did someone try running strigi in maemo ? | 22:08 |
| Milhouse | so who is this Jefferson Y Han guy who seems to have been one of the main developers in New York Universits Media Research Lab? Seems this was mostly developed outside of Apple | 22:08 |
| pokute_ | tko: Hehe. View buttons. :-D | 22:08 |
| gpd | did you see that in one of the videos they do a goole search and an 'ipod linux' page is in the results... | 22:08 |
| roope | http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=apple+multi-touch+patent | 22:08 |
| konttori | I love slashdot frontpage on iphone: "Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing." | 22:09 |
| glass_ | slashdot editors are perhaps most stupid people on the planet | 22:09 |
| Milhouse | after engadget? | 22:09 |
| konttori | But the comment is spot on | 22:09 |
| Milhouse | I guess NY Uni must have flogged it all to Apple | 22:10 |
| daniels | i'm surprised engadget haven't whinged about the lack of a hardware keyboard yet. | 22:10 |
| Milhouse | Certainly doesn't appear to be an Apple "invention" | 22:10 |
| glass_ | first they'll need to get to june and the device to fcc and out.. and to others than just cingular and to worldwide and sell it at price that makes profit for them | 22:10 |
| Milhouse | Dump your Synaptic shares :) | 22:11 |
| daniels | synaptics still have a formidable patent portfolio | 22:11 |
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| Knowledge_ | how many of you guys have the 800"? | 22:11 |
| Milhouse | Don't they have a new screen in design? | 22:11 |
| Milhouse | synaptic sensitive lcd screen | 22:12 |
| tko | hmm, work is funny.. I think I left for work this morning with two things two do. I ended up doing three four different things instead :-] | 22:12 |
| Milhouse | Onyx | 22:12 |
| Milhouse | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQo06jihwf8 | 22:12 |
| tko | MDK, poke me about sound APIs tomorrow in case I forget again :) | 22:12 |
| vandenoever | did anyone try running http://www.vandenoever.info/software/strigi on maemo ? | 22:13 |
| gpd | Knowledge_: I got one on Sunday | 22:13 |
| MDK | tko: do you want to kick the multimedia guys? | 22:13 |
| kaatis | how much are the subsidies on that iPhone $499 quoted price? because it better be rather good to sell well with 700e price tag | 22:13 |
| Milhouse | Not as good a demo, but sounds as though it could be similar to the iPhone functionality | 22:13 |
| Knowledge_ | gpd: is it worth it? | 22:13 |
| tko | MDK, yep | 22:13 |
| Aleksandyr | kaatis: $499 is probably with a $200 subsidy, knowing Cingular | 22:13 |
| Knowledge_ | gpd: I wonder if it's worth going through all the trouble that I listed above. | 22:13 |
| gpd | Knowledge_: compared to what? - certainly enjoyed it so far - didn't have a 770 | 22:13 |
| Knowledge_ | I see... | 22:14 |
| konttori | It's with 2 year contract. | 22:14 |
| gpd | Knowledge_: summary of above -- i am performing Mass Spectrometry and cant really scroll back atm ;) | 22:14 |
| konttori | So, 200$ sounds about right | 22:14 |
| Knowledge_ | Ok, here's the deal, I have a 770, I could do the root to mem card mod, take the mem card out and tell compusa it's not booting and get another one under warranty....sell it on ebay, or get store credit and get an 800...which should I do? | 22:14 |
| Knowledge_ | gpd: ^ | 22:15 |
| Milhouse | This is the correct link for the Synaptic demo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkQNwQtQvRU | 22:15 |
| roope | Probably cingular/apple have a deal where apple also gets a percentage of the $$$. | 22:15 |
| kaatis | Aleksandyr, ok. so that $499 likely translates to about 700 euros for us (no subsidies on gsm phones in finland) | 22:15 |
| roope | of network traffic, itunes use etc. | 22:15 |
| gpd | Knowledge_: if you can do that and feel good about yourself then why not -- the 800 is very nice - what is your main beef with the 770? | 22:16 |
| glass_ | kaatis: I'd expect even worse | 22:16 |
| glass_ | kaatis: it's 2year | 22:16 |
| ||cw | my god i forgot how slow 486's were | 22:16 |
| Aleksandyr | kaatis: ouch. | 22:16 |
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| Knowledge_ | gpd: I don't know, I'm just addicted to phones and gadgets like the 770....and always want something new | 22:17 |
| Knowledge_ | that's really it | 22:17 |
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| gpd | that is part of the reason i am not too worried about the iPhone - since I doubt it will do much they don't allow you to do. | 22:18 |
| gpd | I doubt they will have 'xterm' on their priority list! | 22:18 |
| ||cw | yeah, but if it realy is osx... | 22:18 |
| daniels | no matter what happens, the iphone will be an absolutely wildly successful product | 22:19 |
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| roope | Yes, I agree. | 22:19 |
| roope | Unless the FCC won't approve for 24 months. :) | 22:19 |
| ||cw | that would be funny as hell | 22:19 |
| Aleksandyr | the iPhone represents what I wanted the 770 to do. | 22:19 |
| inz | gpd, can you make a xterm desktop widget?-) | 22:20 |
| Aleksandyr | I mean, I don't care that it's a phone, it's the rest of it. | 22:20 |
| roope | I would buy that device. | 22:20 |
| gpd | inz: you mean you think they will open the platform for developers - as per dashboard? | 22:21 |
| ||cw | they's be stupid not to | 22:21 |
| gpd | this doesn't make me feel any better... | 22:21 |
| Veggen | damn. | 22:21 |
| vittorio | now that im used to 800x480 i wont like 320x480 res for browsing | 22:21 |
| Veggen | I bought a N800. | 22:21 |
| Veggen | credit cards *are* too easy. | 22:22 |
| roope | well, if it's like macosx, you can develop applications, widgets etc. for it. | 22:22 |
| inz | I thouth it _is_ OS X | 22:22 |
| ||cw | that's what they say | 22:22 |
| roope | *takes a shield out and prepares beforehand* personally i've never really understood why the whole platform should be open... | 22:22 |
| konttori | I completely agree that the UI paradigm they chose for iphone seems to be just the kind of thing maemo should also have. | 22:22 |
| ||cw | lets just hope it's not osx like winmo is windows | 22:22 |
| gpd | well -- either nokia will just give up with the tablets and let apple steal all the glory --- or this might open the market and make tablets more popular | 22:22 |
| Veggen | (but worse yet - I bought a 2 GB SD-card from there for convenience, and it's out of stock, so now my N800 will wait for the damned SD card that I can pick up from any shop... ;-P | 22:23 |
| glass_ | it's not full osx for sure | 22:23 |
| glass_ | that could run regular osx apps or that kind.. | 22:23 |
| arj_ | lol | 22:23 |
| glass_ | they would have touted that fact on highest possible volume | 22:23 |
| roope | If you check masosx system requirements it's quite easy to see it's not full macosx. :) | 22:23 |
| inz | Veggen, can't you call them and say "gimme my friggen N800"? | 22:23 |
| ||cw | they did, a bit | 22:23 |
| glass_ | you can do widgets for it and thats it | 22:23 |
| Veggen | inz: hmm, doubt. | 22:23 |
| glass_ | no mention of even any kind of java (not even j2me!) on the tech, spec pages | 22:23 |
| Veggen | maybe. | 22:24 |
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| konttori | Roope: It will probably have darwin in core, and on top of that probably tiny version of the core libraries. Just like maemo is a linux system. So, it can be *said* to be osx (at least at heart) | 22:29 |
| glass_ | it's just marketing | 22:29 |
| glass_ | like buffing up predictive text input as something new | 22:30 |
| glass_ | have to just wait for some actual information that's worth anything | 22:31 |
| roope | there are certain providers that can provide area sensitive predictive vkb input. meaning that you press there about the correct key and it uses the positions. for instance if you want to press f it takes around dfgcvrt. | 22:31 |
| roope | If they have an engine like that, it's really... quite neat. | 22:32 |
| Aleksandyr | ntrs: no evidence of working applets =/ sorry | 22:33 |
| roope | but yes, it's actually narrow for finger size vkb, especially in portrait mode. | 22:33 |
| roope | actually = awfully. | 22:33 |
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| glass_ | very | 22:33 |
| glass_ | unless you have midget hands | 22:33 |
| roope | That would rule. | 22:33 |
| glass_ | and can't type by feel | 22:33 |
| glass_ | "the new mac geek bodymod fad: midget fingers!" | 22:34 |
| konttori | By the way, has everyone noticed that : 'Apple Computer Incorporated' Becomes 'Apple, Incorporated' | 22:34 |
| pokute_ | glass_: Read "and can't type by feet", but wouldn't that make it even harder or maybe you're just weird. | 22:34 |
| * mgedmin would not like to try to use the iPhone with gloves on | 22:34 | |
| Knowledge_ | vittorio: now that im used to 800x480 i wont like 320x480 res for browsing | 22:34 |
| glass_ | pokute: well it has accel sensors for determining which way you hold it | 22:34 |
| roope | They seem not to be fans of Multimedia computers. ;) | 22:34 |
| Knowledge_ | ^ that's the reason I can't use any PDA phone... | 22:35 |
| Knowledge_ | the only thing I've been able to tolerate is the Treo 700p and that's because I cloned the ESN and got it for free... | 22:35 |
| daniels | tko: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2007-January/008995.html | 22:35 |
| daniels | tko: is that what you were after? | 22:35 |
| MDK | roope: don't kick the laying dog | 22:36 |
| MDK | ("multimedia computers") | 22:36 |
| tko | daniels, about, yes. we want someone (else) to provide play_bling() API | 22:36 |
| roope | it's a really big dog, it won't mind. | 22:36 |
| pokute_ | And oh, if Nokia wants multitouch, Nokia will get it. Nokia has such a large phone-related patent portfolio that it can leverage. :-D | 22:37 |
| MDK | roope: I only hope that iPhone will make some people realize that there is a lot of value in: | 22:37 |
| daniels | tko: isn't that what libnotify is for? | 22:37 |
| MDK | 1) good UI | 22:37 |
| MDK | 2) integrated services | 22:37 |
| MDK | 3) polish | 22:37 |
| Tak | what about 3) finnish ? | 22:37 |
| tko | daniels, I thought libnotify was basically about bubbles | 22:37 |
| MDK | hah | 22:38 |
| daniels | tko: it can't be extended? | 22:38 |
| MDK | polish as in "polished ui" | 22:38 |
| Jaffa | MDK: including "some people" at Nokia? | 22:38 |
| roope | http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/poland.jpg | 22:38 |
| Jaffa | They said this has been in the works for 5 years though; god knows how much investment it's had vs. Maemo :-/ | 22:38 |
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| tko | daniels, not sure it makes sense. besides, we don't have even libnotify :) | 22:39 |
| daniels | heh | 22:39 |
| MDK | roope: dude, I'm polish and I'm not that far from your desk | 22:39 |
| kender | "No, the N800 does *not* support multi touch" -> hehe | 22:39 |
| MDK | roope: watch out ;) | 22:39 |
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| roope | Many people do realize the value of a good UI and integrated services. It's just a shame that not the right people. | 22:40 |
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| suihkulokki | competition is good(tm) | 22:41 |
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| roope | Yes, that's true. both symbian and winmobile are very stagnated. | 22:42 |
| ferenc | evening | 22:42 |
| daniels | ferenc: er, you're in bulgaria? | 22:42 |
| ferenc | daniels: yep. enjoying the sunshine! :) | 22:42 |
| ferenc | wanna come over? ;) | 22:42 |
| daniels | nice. family, friends, or just a good place to visit? | 22:42 |
| daniels | heh | 22:42 |
| daniels | going to australia on friday, which is much warmer this time of year | 22:42 |
| ferenc | daniels: i work from here now for a while. | 22:43 |
| daniels | ferenc: oh, cool | 22:43 |
| ferenc | daniels: wow Oz, cool too! you visit home, right? | 22:43 |
| daniels | ferenc: yeah, lca + home | 22:43 |
| MDK | roope: we need a revolution | 22:43 |
| konttori | Are you guys planning on overthrowing your previous Nokia overlords? ;) | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | OK, the Developer Device Programme request emails to maemo-* are getting more brazen. | 22:44 |
| daniels | ferenc: i would've never thought of bulgaria as a holiday destination, tbh | 22:44 |
| c0ffee | hehe | 22:44 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: ooh! link me | 22:44 |
| konttori | I for one welcome our two UI centric overlords Roope and MDK | 22:44 |
| c0ffee | not giving any information on the program is asking for it | 22:44 |
| ferenc | daniels: i am coming here for over 8 yrs now and it is a great place! | 22:44 |
| daniels | MDK: just hack on some seriously awesome bling, and hang around espoo until you find olli-pekka, and force it on him | 22:44 |
| * Jaffa dittos kontorri | 22:44 | |
| Tak | I agree @ c0ffee | 22:44 |
| daniels | ferenc: awesome | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | FOod time | 22:44 |
| tko | konttori, don't forget tigert | 22:45 |
| daniels | c0ffee: what more information do you want? | 22:45 |
| konttori | tko: indeed | 22:45 |
| Tak | "Here's our super-duper Developer Device Program! No details, you can't apply, go away." | 22:45 |
| mgedmin | daniels: that he will get a n800 for 100 eur :) | 22:45 |
| MDK | daniels: I really wish it was that simple | 22:45 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: I think a list of names that includes his a day ago? ;) | 22:45 |
| ferenc | daniels: and if you are into surfing then you can do it here a lot, without sharks :) | 22:45 |
| daniels | c0ffee: it will go to active contributors both to the maemo community and wider open source community, there will be 500 of them, they will cost €99, if you win you will be notified by email | 22:45 |
| daniels | ferenc: heh. sharks aren't really a problem, it's the fatal jellyfish that you have to watch out for. :) | 22:46 |
| tko | Tak, yeah, I think it could've been handled better | 22:46 |
| daniels | MDK: start with ari virtanen? | 22:46 |
| c0ffee | daniels, that's not all | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | create a simple cgi script "enter your name here [___] then press the button to see if you will get the developer discount", and always answer "no" | 22:46 |
| MDK | daniels: I have more trust towards ari jaaksi | 22:46 |
| c0ffee | daniels, there's also "making your contributions visible may help" | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | might reduce the number of questions | 22:46 |
| daniels | c0ffee: s/may help/is essential/ | 22:46 |
| daniels | c0ffee: if no-one knows you've done anything, how will we know to give you a deice? | 22:46 |
| konttori | Have you seen the BT headset from apple? http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0230.jpg | 22:47 |
| c0ffee | daniels, and you prefer to have the application send to maemo-developers then? | 22:47 |
| c0ffee | daniels, because that is what happens | 22:47 |
| daniels | c0ffee: applications shouldn't be sent, full stop | 22:47 |
| daniels | c0ffee: the idea, as far as i can tell, is to reward active contributors | 22:47 |
| daniels | c0ffee: if you need to send an email applying, then you probably don't meet that requirement | 22:47 |
| c0ffee | well | 22:47 |
| c0ffee | n770 is out quite some time | 22:48 |
| daniels | c0ffee: that's the benchmark for membership of the x.org foundation. if we have to ask who you are, then chances of your application succeeding is very, very low. | 22:48 |
| c0ffee | well well | 22:48 |
| c0ffee | i already stop whining | 22:48 |
| c0ffee | it's just like jaffa said that the applications send to m-d are getting a bit strange | 22:49 |
| konttori | By the way, is there a list of resolutions N800 supports for video playback? I could add the to media converter and publish tomorrow? | 22:49 |
| konttori | 400x240 works, which is god sent. | 22:49 |
| daniels | konttori: 'all of them' | 22:49 |
| konttori | Really? | 22:50 |
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| konttori | 400x480? | 22:50 |
| daniels | konttori: yes, we can do arbitrary _upscaling_ | 22:50 |
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| konttori | cool | 22:50 |
| konttori | 800x480? | 22:50 |
| c0ffee | does it have xvinfo? | 22:50 |
| daniels | konttori: downscaling is done in software because the display controller crashes if you try it in hardware, and is thus very slow | 22:50 |
| Veggen | Hmm, so video is gonna work much, much nicer on the N800? | 22:50 |
| daniels | c0ffee: not as shipped, because there's no need. but maybe the dev image does? | 22:50 |
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| konttori | oh, this is great news. And the codecs? | 22:50 |
| c0ffee | well, as soon as xephyr is compiled, i can just make a binary | 22:51 |
| daniels | Veggen: yes. it's not blazing fast in 2006-47 or 2006-51, but it'll be really damn fast as of the next update we do. | 22:51 |
| c0ffee | with gentoo things are sometimes a bit slow | 22:51 |
| pokute_ | I nominate Oyvind Kolas for the development program. :-) | 22:51 |
| c0ffee | despite -funroll-loops and -ffast-math | 22:51 |
| daniels | konttori: i have no idea, sorry; i do the x server, not the media player. | 22:51 |
| shapr | Hm, is iPhone is going to hurt or help the N770 and N800 series? | 22:51 |
| daniels | konttori: 800x480 would work in theory, but reading an 800x480 video off the flash/sd is going to be _pain_. | 22:51 |
| vittorio | damn fast video sounds great | 22:51 |
| tko | hmm, 16 minutes into 24 and two main characters already killed. cool :) | 22:51 |
| Veggen | daniels: ok, I don't regret ordering my N800. It *is* a significant upgrade. | 22:51 |
| c0ffee | somebody found a video chat client that interoperates with the n800? | 22:52 |
| shapr | tko: What are you watching? | 22:52 |
| shapr | oh, 24 | 22:52 |
| c0ffee | or is there somewhere information on the protocol | 22:52 |
| Tak | shapr: that's what we've been arguing about all afternoon | 22:53 |
| Milhouse | Someone (somewhere) was suggesting the CPU in the N800 doesn't include IVA - is that true? | 22:53 |
| Tak | (afternoon CST) | 22:53 |
| daniels | Veggen: i'd like to release the x server through sardine or herring or whatever, but it needs a newer kernel too, and ttbomk we don't have a mechanism for releasing kernel upgrades. | 22:53 |
| daniels | Milhouse: the iva is definitely present | 22:53 |
| pokute_ | Milhouse: What's IVA? | 22:53 |
| suihkulokki | c0ffee: http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/ | 22:53 |
| Milhouse | excellent - so it's the full deal, nice :) | 22:54 |
| pokute_ | interlace video accelerator | 22:54 |
| pokute_ | ? | 22:54 |
| shapr | Tak: There's an easy solution. Someone port maemo to the iPhone. | 22:54 |
| daniels | pokute_: imaging and video accelerator; it's a dsp | 22:55 |
| tko | daniels, hmm, but at least the linux flasher could flash kernel+initfs from non-fiasco files .. licensing could be tricky | 22:55 |
| daniels | we're not making use of the iva though, at least of -47 and -51. i don't know about future plans. | 22:55 |
| * shapr hugs daniels for doing good stuff with the 770 | 22:55 | |
| daniels | tko: well, the kernel's gpl, so we couldn't slap redistribution restrictions on it even if we wanted to. dunno that anyone cares about initfs. | 22:56 |
| * pokute_ gives daniels some suffeli. | 22:56 | |
| keesj | the links is still borken www.nokia.com/N880 is still broken | 22:56 |
| daniels | shapr: sorry to break it to you, but all i've done with the 770 is make sure that the X server still runs on it | 22:56 |
| shapr | daniels: Sounds like a positive thing to me. | 22:56 |
| daniels | keesj: so is www.nokia.com/n800 ;) | 22:56 |
| Tak | that's pretty good right there | 22:56 |
| daniels | tko: but the biggest problem is that we don't seem to have a sardine-like redistribution mechanism for those sorts of things | 22:57 |
| c0ffee | suihkulokki, got a link about the protocol as well? | 22:57 |
| keesj | I followed the link from this page http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/ | 22:57 |
| Milhouse | OMAP2420 specs: http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/TI_omap2420.pdf | 22:57 |
| daniels | tko: also, i don't think you _need_ a new nolo, but it certainly helps video performance | 22:57 |
| c0ffee | keesj, www.nokiausa.com/N800 | 22:57 |
| Milhouse | Imaging & Video Accelerator provides "full motion video encoding or decoding at rates up to 30 frames per second"; "up to VGA resolution" | 22:57 |
| vittorio | the new CPU has 3d acceleration. does the N800 support opengl | 22:58 |
| Milhouse | hopefully we can take advantage of the IVA in the N800 media player | 22:58 |
| shapr | Where's the faqbot so I can ask it what nolo means? | 22:58 |
| suihkulokki | c0ffee: I have no idea of the protocol, I would guess it's jabber/jingle related | 22:58 |
| daniels | Milhouse: there's no kernel support for the iva right now, so you'd be hard-pressed to | 22:58 |
| daniels | shapr: NOkia (boot) LOader | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | shapr: when you find out, add it to http://maemo.org/maemowiki/CodeNames | 22:59 |
| Milhouse | missed your previous post while i was searching for the pdf link - thats a shame about no support | 22:59 |
| * mgedmin wonders what IVA is, and asks Google about it | 22:59 | |
| Milhouse | seems a wasted oppurtunity | 22:59 |
| shapr | mgedmin: When you find out... | 22:59 |
| c0ffee | the nolo appears to have a small built-in debug shell | 22:59 |
| c0ffee | which reminds me that there's still no information about enabling serial console available | 23:00 |
| daniels | Milhouse: patches welcome ;) | 23:00 |
| Milhouse | :) | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | "image/video accelerator" probably | 23:00 |
| shapr | probably | 23:00 |
| konttori | daniels: Thanks! Well, if I get N800, I'll be soon testing out that 800x480. should blow peoples minds if it works. 1024 kbps should be enough for that, so it's not bad for the sd. | 23:00 |
| daniels | c0ffee: nolo's shell isn't much use to you unless you're hacking nolo itself: you have to damage nolo to be able to brick your device such that you can't reflash over usb | 23:01 |
| c0ffee | thinking beyond maemo only, I think hacking nolo might be intereesting | 23:02 |
| c0ffee | for example for loading a netbsd os | 23:02 |
| Milhouse | daniels - any idea if 3D support is there in OS2007? | 23:02 |
| shapr | Or for example, loading the GHC runtime directly on the hardware. | 23:02 |
| Milhouse | opengl i guess, or anything else? | 23:03 |
| shapr | (GHC == Haskell Compiler) | 23:03 |
| konttori | does the N800 video call support any other software for pcs / osx / linux than nokias own? | 23:03 |
| daniels | Milhouse: no, there's no hardware acceleration for graphics other than the video colourspace conversion/scaling, probably | 23:03 |
| c0ffee | when i tried to figure out the file format on the fiasco images (before the linux flasher was released), I found a bunch of interesting strings in the hex dump :) | 23:04 |
| Milhouse | looking at the PDF it says "2D/3D hardware MBX/VGP accelerators, up to 2 Million polygons/sec" | 23:04 |
| trenka | c0ffee: for example ? | 23:04 |
| Milhouse | ah i see - there's no h/w acceleration in OS 2007 - thanks | 23:04 |
| vittorio | bzflag on N800 would rock! | 23:04 |
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| c0ffee | trenka, well, like the nolo shell | 23:05 |
| daniels | s/, probably// | 23:05 |
| daniels | i don't know why i put there. there is absolutely none. | 23:05 |
| trenka | nolo shell I afraid cannot help to load netbsd | 23:05 |
| c0ffee | trenka, also the initrd contains support for booting from various other devices | 23:05 |
| Milhouse | maybe SDL has support for the 2D/3D hardware - one can only hope | 23:06 |
| trenka | c0ffee: it's not a secret, AFAIK | 23:06 |
| c0ffee | not anymore | 23:06 |
| MDK | netbsd? Wasn't it freebsd that supported arm? | 23:06 |
| c0ffee | it used to be | 23:06 |
| c0ffee | trenka, anyway, serial access is at least required to boot something else | 23:06 |
| daniels | Milhouse: it doesn't, sorry | 23:06 |
| Milhouse | sob :( | 23:07 |
| c0ffee | trenka, esp. if one had to replace the actual boot loader | 23:07 |
| trenka | I do not think it's good idea | 23:07 |
| c0ffee | well :) | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | that doesn't really matter | 23:08 |
| trenka | even if you are omap guru, it's not enough to write a working bootloader for n800 | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | who talks about 800 | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | i'm more thinking about the 770 | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | and what one could do with it if the software update frequency becomes unbearable | 23:09 |
| daniels | the 770 is no easier to write a bootloader for | 23:09 |
| VRe | konttori: That would be kickass =) | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | oh, and there are omap boot loaders available | 23:09 |
| daniels | you have the source to the 770 kernel there already; what would replacing it with bsd gain you? | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | i dont | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | it contains blobs | 23:09 |
| trenka | c0ffee: there is a bit more devices in the device except omap | 23:09 |
| shapr | Hey, it'd be fun, what else is important? | 23:10 |
| daniels | c0ffee: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/scirocco/free/source/k/kernel-source-2.6.16/ | 23:10 |
| shapr | I'd love to get the Haskell runtime on the bare metal 770. It already runs on the bare metal for i386 and Xen, so why not? | 23:10 |
| c0ffee | daniels, and that includes the wlan & bt driver sources for example? | 23:10 |
| trenka | shapr: no problems, you do not need to hack boot loader for it | 23:10 |
| shapr | Plus, it'd be fun to experiment with typesafe and GC'd embedded operating systems. | 23:11 |
| suihkulokki | c0ffee: does netbsd have them? | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | no | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | but if i dont have them on linux, it doesn't make a difference | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | i could use a proper bsd kernel then as well | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | </flame> | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | anyway | 23:11 |
| shapr | c0ffee: The wifi driver source is available, but includes a firmware blob. | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | why are you so much faering somebody actually hacking the boot loader? | 23:11 |
| c0ffee | and bt? | 23:12 |
| shapr | Haven't looked. | 23:12 |
| c0ffee | the n800 feature page still doesn't mention SCO :( | 23:12 |
| shapr | I am quite interested in the wifi driver sources for the N800, any improvements there would likely be easy to backport to the 770. | 23:12 |
| shapr | c0ffee: btsco? | 23:12 |
| Milhouse | What? The iPhone doesn't come with a protective cover!! I'm not getting one. | 23:12 |
| trenka | c0ffee: no no no, I would like very much if nolo get support from community | 23:13 |
| kender | Milhouse, xDD | 23:13 |
| kender | Milhouse, give me the moneay | 23:13 |
| kender | *money | 23:13 |
| Milhouse | Cheque is in the post :) | 23:13 |
| daniels | c0ffee: i'm not sure if you realise this, but when i'm sitting here at my desk trying to help out in #maemo while i wait for the server to build, it's really demotivating when people sit here more or less trolling me. | 23:14 |
| kender | Milhouse, :) | 23:14 |
| roope | it's probably not even backwards compatible with the ipod. | 23:14 |
| Milhouse | shocking, so people will have to buy new docks? that sucks | 23:15 |
| Milhouse | ;) | 23:15 |
| daniels | c0ffee: all of the standard corporate reasons apply to code that's unreleased: the whole fcc wireless thing, wrote it from specs that didn't let us release the code, code written by others that isn't under a free licence. pick one. i don't know the actual reason, but it isn't released, and if it hasn't been released yet, it's almost certainly not going to be. | 23:15 |
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| daniels | c0ffee: i'd like to see the end of all blobs (including opera and flash, e.g.), but people other than me have made that decision for reasons good or bad, and we're all just going to have to live with that. | 23:15 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: actually, it is kind of shocking --- part of the strength of the ipod is that EVERYTHING uses that damned dock ;) | 23:16 |
| Milhouse | not true - gen 3 wasn't compatible with gen 2 (or something like that) so they've done it before | 23:16 |
| glass_ | oh how i wish my ipod just had a standard small usb hole | 23:17 |
| daniels | Milhouse: i think it was 3g -> 4g that they broke it | 23:17 |
| Milhouse | i was close :) | 23:18 |
| dwd | daniels: Purely in your personal opinion, but if a viable alternative to (for example) Opera came along, would you think that Nokia might switch? | 23:18 |
| Milhouse | i must say though, that i have a touchscreen phone (SE W950i) and I pretty much hate it... not sure if it's the crappy Symbian UIQ or the whole concept of touchscreen phones | 23:19 |
| daniels | dwd: i don't actually know, but even if i did, i'd honestly rather not second-guess my employer in public, sorry ... | 23:19 |
| dwd | daniels: Understandable. | 23:19 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: gens 1 and 2 had no dock at all. Gen 3 introduced the dock, and it has not changed (except to add video out, which did not break compat) | 23:19 |
| Milhouse | i'm pretty sure that somewhere along the way, all accessories were incompatible with a new generation of ipods | 23:20 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: my gen 3 ipod (first dock generation) works with every new ipod accessory. | 23:20 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: the nano and video removed the remote port on top, which broke a few accessories, but the dock remained the same. | 23:21 |
| dwd | Milhouse: The old covers aren't compatible with the Nano. :-) | 23:21 |
| Milhouse | electrical accessories :) | 23:21 |
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| roope | dwd: I'm pretty sure if Nokia has two viable options, one free and one costing licenses, that they would opt for the free solution. | 23:21 |
| Milhouse | can't remember the details - i bought an ipod and never use it now.. battery is always flat when i want to use it | 23:21 |
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| Milhouse | now use the W950i on the move | 23:22 |
| Aleksandyr | Milhouse: new batteries for the ipod are cheap and easy now ;) | 23:22 |
| Aleksandyr | I have a car dock for mine, and it's simply priceless. Then again, I have a two hour commute to work. | 23:22 |
| dwd | roope: That was what I thought. Hence the best way to remove the blobs would be to hack on an alternative. | 23:22 |
| tko | we prefer free solutions, but if a proprietary one is technically noticeably better... | 23:22 |
| tigert | dwd: that has always been the way to do things | 23:22 |
| tigert | with X drivers, wlan etc | 23:22 |
| dwd | I have a tough 10 second commute to work. Kills me. | 23:23 |
| tigert | the less platform code we need to maintain ourselves the better | 23:23 |
| tigert | like with gtk, etc | 23:23 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: I don't know if you can feel it right now, but I'm trying to kill you with my mind ;) | 23:23 |
| tigert | nobody enjoys maintaining a huge pile of patches for example | 23:23 |
| dwd | tigert: Yup. So the answer to people complaining that Opera isn't Floss is to tell them to go work on Minimo, or NetSurf. | 23:24 |
| c0ffee | back | 23:24 |
| daniels | dwd: indeed. as soon as you get to the stage of proprietary and good vs. free and better, it's kind of a no-brainer, really ... | 23:24 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Believe me, it took a *long* time to get myself into the position where I could get a telecommute position. | 23:24 |
| c0ffee | daniels, ah, sorry, I don't mean to troll you | 23:25 |
| dwd | daniels: But, of course, Nokia couldn't actually say that officially, as it would damage the relationship with Opera. | 23:25 |
| c0ffee | daniels, and from my background as reverse-engineer I very well know the whole licence issue stuff | 23:25 |
| c0ffee | daniels, the level of support is very much appreciated | 23:25 |
| daniels | c0ffee: no worries | 23:26 |
| c0ffee | daniels, still you also have to see that from point of view of opensource it would be nice to have full sources | 23:26 |
| daniels | c0ffee: absolutely, i do, which is why i said it. | 23:26 |
| c0ffee | daniels, which commonly means to sit down and translate endless assembler dumps to C | 23:26 |
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| suihkulokki | tsk. tsk. that's not proper clean room reverse engineering. | 23:27 |
| c0ffee | ehrm | 23:27 |
| c0ffee | the NICI installation looks funny | 23:27 |
| pokute_ | Oh. Found a treasure on engadget comments. "Dude ... it has WIFI and Bluetooth + .... oh, and -- because it runs OS X -- it is the only phone that is multi-threaded ... If anyone thinks that the iPhone is stupid, they just don't know what they are talking about!" | 23:28 |
| c0ffee | suihkulokki, if I tell somebody else about the C code and he/she rewrites it, voila, it's perfect cleanroom | 23:28 |
| dwd | I have to say, I thought Symbian was multithreaded. | 23:29 |
| vidarino | "dirty room" reverse engineering is probably legal in many places, too. ;) | 23:29 |
| dwd | Of course, all the UI runs within a single thread on a single process, but that's different. | 23:29 |
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| pokute_ | So did I, but maybe we're all wrong. :-D | 23:30 |
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| dwd | Was it something I said? | 23:30 |
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| timeless | cocoa doesn't actually require all ui to run on a single thread | 23:30 |
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| timeless | it just requires proper locking if you choose not to | 23:30 |
| Milhouse | "More tea vicker?" | 23:30 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: last I checked, the new versions of Symbian run realtime and handle the radios...which I rather expect means multithreading, ATVL. | 23:30 |
| Milhouse | s/vicker/vicar | 23:30 |
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| dwd | timeless: No, on Symbian, the "applications" the phone runs are loaded into the UI thread. Just one on the whole phone. They can, and do, start their own threads for processing, etc. | 23:31 |
| daniels | dwd: yeah, for all the 9300's faults, i doubt too many other phones would survive exit code 11 from PhoneServerThread | 23:31 |
| timeless | dwd: i wasn't talking about symbian | 23:31 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: exit code 11? | 23:31 |
| timeless | unless symbian has a 'cocoa' | 23:31 |
| dwd | timeless: Yeah, I was just making the distinction between accesses to the UI from a single thread, vs the entire UI running in a single thread. | 23:32 |
| pokute_ | Aleksandyr: Yup. The treasure was that the person thinks he knows what's he's talking about and then tells that no other phone is multithreaded. :-) | 23:32 |
| timeless | dwd: oh, i'm talking about a single process | 23:32 |
| timeless | which can choose to split ui work across multiple threads if it wants to risk playing w/ locks | 23:32 |
| Aleksandyr | pokute_: Suddenly this conversation veers towards making sense...although I'm reading one out of every ten lines, since I'm working ;) | 23:33 |
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| dwd | timeless: Yeah. Of course, Linux can do much the same, it just gets really scary, in part because Xlib isn't multi-thread capable. | 23:34 |
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| daniels | Aleksandyr: http://www.fooishbar.org/images/phone-segfault.jpg | 23:34 |
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| tko | daniels, I wonder if that would really be SEGV :) | 23:35 |
| timeless | dwd: difference is, i think cocoa ui threaded work would actually work | 23:35 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: Ah. | 23:35 |
| timeless | otoh, in beos and windows each window really does have its own thread | 23:35 |
| dwd | timeless: IIRC, there's a threadsafe version of Xlib floating about somewhere which allows this kind of thing. | 23:36 |
| daniels | tko: dunno, but it was entertaining nonetheless | 23:36 |
| pokute_ | What's non-disclosure agreement in finnish? | 23:36 |
| * Tak is soo tempted to reply to daniels's listmail with: "Oh, are you on the team? Do you know when the contact will be made?!" | 23:36 | |
| timeless | pokute: isn't all legalese written in English? :) | 23:36 |
| daniels | dwd: well, xlib is threadsafe, but using it properly is even more difficult than using xlib properly in general | 23:36 |
| daniels | dwd: (i.e. not actually possible) | 23:36 |
| timeless | (or french if you're on the wrong side of the pond) | 23:36 |
| dwd | daniels: I thought it wasn't safe to use xlib from more than one thread? | 23:37 |
| timeless | the primitives of x11 shouldn't have issues w/ being used from threads | 23:37 |
| timeless | at least from memory | 23:37 |
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| * Jaffa unfoods. | 23:38 | |
| daniels | dwd: it's safe, as long as you do it properly | 23:38 |
| Tak | heh | 23:38 |
| Tak | is that a euphemism for a restroom trip? | 23:38 |
| timeless | heh | 23:39 |
| dwd | Tak: Thanks for that mental image. | 23:39 |
| Tak | thank Jaffa | 23:39 |
| pokute_ | It can also mean emptying youself from the other end. | 23:40 |
| dwd | Tak: No, I merely read that as "back from dinner". Not "Now I must insert sharp pointy stuff through my ears in the hope of destroying that part of my brain holding that image". | 23:40 |
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| Milhouse | it's amazing reading the comments on engadget - so many people who are sold on the looks. Such a shame the N800 is so bland | 23:40 |
| Tak | I dunno | 23:40 |
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| dwd | Milhouse: But it's *silver*... | 23:41 |
| Tak | I think if nokia had released it, people wouldn't be quite as dazzled | 23:41 |
| Milhouse | a bit more bling perhaps would have helped the N800 | 23:41 |
| timeless | nokia wouldn't have done it right :) | 23:41 |
| Tak | "omg it's the iphone it must be teh sexy!" | 23:41 |
| Milhouse | then of course people would be moaning because it had too much chrome... :) | 23:41 |
| dwd | Tak: :-) | 23:41 |
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| dwd | Milhouse: And who would be so petty? | 23:42 |
| * Jaffa did mean in it the sense that dwd parsed. | 23:42 | |
| Tak | hmm | 23:42 |
| Tak | can I look at the source to your parser? | 23:43 |
| dwd | Jaffa: You have no idea how relieved that makes me feel. | 23:43 |
| dwd | Tak: I only let my wife see that. | 23:43 |
| bstock | quick question, does all n770 software work on the n800? | 23:43 |
| dwd | Tak: She signed an NDA. | 23:43 |
| Milhouse | can't wait to see what the battery life is like on the iPhone - wouldn't fancy having to charge the thing every 24 hours! | 23:43 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: no | 23:43 |
| bstock | shitty... thx | 23:43 |
| kender | Milhouse, 5h with internet using | 23:43 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: better answer is "not yet". | 23:43 |
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| kender | Milhouse, 14h audio | 23:43 |
| bstock | heh yeah notice they didn't announce anything about the battery life, not that i heard anyway | 23:43 |
| Milhouse | but it's so thing, the battery can't be that large - that's really good, in fact almost unbelievable | 23:44 |
| Milhouse | thing==thin | 23:44 |
| dwd | If the iPhone has motion sensors and bluetooth, how long before someone writes a Wiimote app for it? | 23:45 |
| Milhouse | does it come with a strap? :) | 23:45 |
| Milhouse | not sure what's more expensive - the big arse LCD TV or the iPhone-come-Wiimote... | 23:45 |
| Milhouse | though I'd guess both could end up seriously harmed in the even of any "slippage" during play | 23:46 |
| Milhouse | event | 23:46 |
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| bstock | i'm looking forward to it, though it is a little pricy | 23:48 |
| bstock | pricey* | 23:48 |
| Milhouse | Definately not going to rush into it - will quite happily wait into 2008 to see how it shakes out | 23:48 |
| Milhouse | After my experience with the W950i I have no desire to own another touchscreen phone to be honest | 23:49 |
| bstock | meh, apple seems to have their shit together though | 23:49 |
| bstock | i think this is the first touchscreen device though.. | 23:49 |
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| Milhouse | unless they can make a touchscreen feel like real buttons I doubt even apple can pull it off | 23:49 |
| Milhouse | bstock: for apple, possibly (if you ignore the Newton) | 23:50 |
| dwd | Personally, I've given up with smartphones, anyway - I've long considered my 770 to be a smartphone without the phone. Just smart, if you like. The phone lives in my pocket unless I'm making a call, in which case the 770 does. | 23:50 |
| Milhouse | definately not the first touchscreen phone - there's loads out there | 23:50 |
| dwd | Milhouse: I think bstock meant Apple's first touchscreen. | 23:50 |
| bstock | yeah but all the other smartphones run windows | 23:50 |
| dwd | Except he's forgetting the Newton, I think. | 23:51 |
| Milhouse | in that case no - Newton was touchscreen | 23:51 |
| wasabi | dwd: yeah, I have that same attitude. | 23:51 |
| bstock | and we all know how much fun those are. my old hp ipaq crashed more than my damn 486 running win95 | 23:51 |
| wasabi | There's no replacement for the widescreen of the 770 in a phone. | 23:51 |
| dwd | bstock: Erm, no. Windows has a very tiny market share. | 23:51 |
| Milhouse | bstock: no they don't - Symbian as well | 23:51 |
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| wasabi | anything like the n770, I wouldn't want to holdto my ears | 23:51 |
| dwd | bstock: Mostly it's Symbian and Linux. | 23:51 |
| bstock | yeah... i dunno i guess i'm just an apple fanboy. ever since osx they've really got their act together | 23:52 |
| Tak | that's what headsets are for | 23:52 |
| dwd | Tak: Yeah, but I hate those. | 23:53 |
| Tak | then you're screwed | 23:53 |
| Milhouse | Tak: that's why the 770/N800 need BT headsets so baldy - the devices themselves are so bloody huge! | 23:53 |
| Tak | agreed | 23:53 |
| Tak | even a corded headset would be ok with a lengthy enough cord from pocket -> ear | 23:54 |
| dwd | Tak: No, just old-fashioned. I'd be happy with a BT "headset" that looked like a phone. | 23:54 |
| obscure | bstock: drooling over the iphone? | 23:54 |
| bstock | anyone have any good, fairly cheap GPS bluetooth units compatable w/ the 770 | 23:54 |
| obscure | dwd: thats neat - didn't notice any like that tho :/ | 23:55 |
| obscure | dwd: guess cause it only makes sense for the 770 | 23:55 |
| dwd | obscure: Yes, and given that you'd still have a phone anyway, no sense at all. | 23:55 |
| bstock | i've been thinking about taking my 770 to compusa and trying to get our corp rep to 'replace' my 770 with the warranty we bought, but upgrade to the 800 | 23:56 |
| obscure | dwd: yep. except for using gtalk/gizmodo etc | 23:56 |
| Tak | http://www.wonova.com/10/2006/navigation-kit-for-nokia-770-internet-tablet/ | 23:56 |
| bstock | i don't know if they're allowed to do that | 23:56 |
| daniels | bstock: the nokia ld-1w and ld-3w both work | 23:56 |
| obscure | gluck bstock :) | 23:56 |
| daniels | (not being a corporate shill, they're just the only two that i've personally used.) | 23:56 |
| * gpd realizes that Apple will have to release iCal, Addressbook for Windows -- OR will try to leverage iPhone users to buy a Mac | 23:56 | |
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| lardman | bstock: I've got an iBlue which works fine, and was cheap (for the UK) | 23:57 |
| dwd | gpd: The blurb implies that they'll release something compatible for the PC. | 23:57 |
| dwd | lardman: How cheap is cheap? | 23:57 |
| bstock | hmm, looks like around $100 for the iblue... wonder if it works in the us | 23:58 |
| obscure | lardman: used to be with the zaurus crowd right? | 23:58 |
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| hub | heya | 23:58 |
| hub | I have a question for the N800 camera | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GPT-801&cpc=SCH | 23:58 |
| hub | is it controllable in software? | 23:58 |
| lardman | bstock: I think it was just under £40, which is pretty cheap for us | 23:58 |
| hub | over USB | 23:58 |
| Milhouse | hub: he's just popped out - will be back later | 23:58 |
| daniels | hub: define 'controllable' | 23:58 |
| dwd | hub: Over USB I doubt. | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: GPS is GPS. | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: if it works in the UK, it'll work anywhere, etc | 23:59 |
| t_b_b | anyone familar with gpsd and kismet | 23:59 |
| lardman | obscure: Yes. Still with them, just been busy lately and having troubles getting back in | 23:59 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: Actually, not so... But the European system isn't up and running yet. | 23:59 |
| bstock | heh yeah, guess it wouldn't be 'global' if it didn't | 23:59 |
| keesj | All this negative energy makes me fell like I want to hybernate for a while | 23:59 |
| t_b_b | i get that running, but everytime the logged data will be overide | 23:59 |
| keesj | (on the mailing that is) | 23:59 |
| lardman | obscure: in terms of all the things that have happened, etc. | 23:59 |
| dwd | Aleksandyr: But of course, when it is, it'll alsoglobal. | 23:59 |
| hub | dwd: thining afterward, over USB should be just a matter of writting the software :-) | 23:59 |
| hub | anyone a clue how to request de developer unit? | 23:59 |
| Aleksandyr | dwd: ehrm, if it's GPS, it's...GPS. Global Positioning System. | 23:59 |
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