IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-01-08

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mgedminshapr: I got the impression that the hardware for SD and SDHC is the same, it's all a matter of software00:06
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mgedminhm, wikipedia says the upper limit is 32 gb rather than 2 tb00:09
|tbb|mgedmin do u got a enviroment to develope apps for maemo now!00:11
mgedminI've got scratchbox, yes00:11
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mgedminwith the mistral rootstrap yet, no disk space for anything newer00:11
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|tbb|could u port macchanger now :)00:11
mgedmin|tbb|: what's wrong with the one at ?00:14
|tbb|is this new?00:14
jtokashFYI, the opera ini file on the n800 is mostly identical to the one from the 77000:15
jtokashThe big differences are all the cache settings.  Those are cranked way up on the n800.00:15
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robtaylorMDK: belated pong00:17
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* florian ran into the "debconf" dependency problem as well00:18
|tbb|wow it works thanks00:20
jtokashflorian, did you solve it?00:21
|tbb|hi florian00:21
florianjtokash: not yet... which packages failed for you?00:21
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jtokashwhich app are we talking about?  I've failed installing lots. Canola?00:22
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|tbb|where can i see the uptime of my device?00:24
jtokashThe following packages have unmet dependencies:00:25
florianjtokash: ok, i tried to install some packages i just created00:25
jtokash  debconf: PreDepends: perl-base (>= 5.6.1-4) but it is not installable00:25
jtokashE: Broken packages00:25
jtokashThat was the error output of apt-get install debconf00:26
|tbb|./media/mmc1/debfiles # sudo gainroot00:26
floriani guess that's nothing we can fix easily without bad hacks00:26
|tbb|sudo: unable to lookup (none) via gethostbyname()00:26
|tbb|always i get this error why00:26
florian|tbb|: it tries to resolve its hostname which isn't set00:27
|tbb|sudo: unable to lookup n77k via gethostbyname()00:29
|tbb|florian is it possible to see the uptime of the n77000:30
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tigert"uptime" doesnt work?00:31
|tbb|oh, nice never heard about that cmd00:32
tigertheh, you knew the term though? :)00:32
tigertthat's where the term comes from00:33
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jtokashOn the n800, the opera version is: "8.05 Internal build 2.0.31"00:52
jtokashOn the 770 it is "8.2 Internal build 1.1.50"00:53
jtokashOn the n800, the opera version is: "8.5 Internal build 2.0.31" << correction00:53
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jtokash on the n800 says 7.0.0.  It says 6.0.82 on the 77000:57
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jtokashOn the 770 it is "8.02 Internal build 1.1.50" << Correction01:00
|tbb|forum topic01:04
jtokash"And as I mentioned before, the N800 is recognizing a 4 GB SD card. I might possibly pick up an 8 GB just out of curiosity to see if it works."01:06
jtokashfound on internettablettalk01:06
lindi-what exactly determines how large cards can be supported?01:07
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lindi-(i'm assuming the SD protocol specification is not available for zero price, otherwise i'd just check there)01:09
slapin_nbis it possible to use 2Gb card with n770? kernel patches?01:09
desrtslapin_nb; it is.01:10
desrtlindi-; there's no such thing as an 8GB SD card01:10
desrtsince the SD spec maxes out at 4GB01:10
trenkaslapin_nb: no, the latest revision can use it01:10
lindi-desrt: ok, do you have the specs at hand?01:11
danguyThat is where SDHC gets involved.01:11
desrtbut there is some new specification that is physically compatible with SD (ie: same size cards) that supports larger sizes01:11
slapin_nbthat's cool01:11
desrtyes.  SDHC is what it's called01:11
desrti think it's that SD cards have 32bit addressing01:11
desrtand "SD" is byte-addressed01:11
desrtso you can only read as many as 4 billion bytes01:11
desrtwhereas SDHC is block addressed (so you can read 4 billion blocks... which are each many bytes)01:12
lindi-isn't MMC sector addressed in contrast?01:12
desrti think so?01:12
* desrt doesn't really know :)01:12
danguyI though MMC and SD are *very* similar.01:12
lindi-at least the MMC controller i've talked to wanted sector addresses01:12
lindi-but i don't know what really goes on wire01:13
danguyWell, I understand that newer SD has more data pins.01:13
qgilnight guys - you're really having fun  ;)01:13
desrtqgil; cheers.01:13
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|tbb|som1 on internettablettalk has seen the price 4 the n800 in europe is about 499Euros :/01:25
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gpdjust setting up my N800 :D01:28
gpdseems great - need to RTFM on how to install xterm, ssh etc01:29
gpdalthough i suspect that this is OS 2007 so nothing on maemo will work?01:30
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shaprSomething weird happening on my Nokia 770... app-manager is giving me "bad file descriptor" in the logs. What's up with that?01:38
|tbb|whats the url to the n800 vid01:40
jtokashgpd, I haven't gotten xterm installed, but ssh was easy enough using the redpill mode mentioned in the application list01:41
gpdjtokash: can you point me towards some basic docs - i am new to this platform01:42
jtokashoh, boy01:42
jtokashyou never used a 770?01:42
gpdnope :D01:42
jtokashTime to learn about the application manager..  sob sob01:42
jtokashMost of that stuff won't work, though, until dependancies are updated for the new os01:42
gpdthe number on my battery doesn't seem to let me go to the repository01:43
c0ffeesomebody should reverse engineer the flasher-2.001:43
jtokashgpd: go down to OpenSSH Server and client01:43
c0ffeemaybe it's possible to create a firmware image from the device01:43
jtokashgpd: read the second half of that section (Installation in application manager with Red Pill mode (much easier than gaining root) )01:43
c0ffeegaining root is a piece of cake01:44
jtokashthat was a quote from the doc01:44
jtokashnot my own personal opinion01:44
c0ffeeit used to be hard for about half a day01:45
gpdOk - i enter matrix in the web address and click cancel and nothing happens01:46
|tbb|what is the weight of the new n80001:48
gpdjtokash: any pointers? am i reading that page wrong?01:48
gpd|tbb|: just weighed it on my kitchen scales and it says 215g with battery01:50
gpdok - got the red pill - you have to click on a different field before clicking cancel01:51
|tbb|the playback on youtube vidz sucks right01:52
gpdnot sure - will check01:52
jtokash|tbb|, yes01:52
jtokash1-3 fps01:52
jtokashthough the audio tracks are great and not choppy01:52
|tbb|so where is the audiotube,lol01:53
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gpdjust seems to be going to a 'want to see more by this'01:54
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gpdyup - not great - about 3 fps01:56
gpdbut not my main reason for purchase!01:57
gpdanyway - back to 'setting up the repository'01:57
MilhouseJust ordered my UK N800 for £269 direct from Nokia01:58
c0ffee399 euro here01:59
gpdwhich repositories would you suggest to get started? garage ?01:59
gpd[sorry for being clueless]01:59
Milhouse£269/€399 works out at about $520 - still a bit high but probably explained by the excellent USD/GBP and USD/EUR exchange rate02:00
gpdmine was 399 USD in compUSA02:00
Milhousei'm saying how much a euro model costs in dollars - very well aware how much you guys are paying! :)02:01
JaffaMilhouse: excellent. I can't see me bothering, TBH.02:01
Milhouse$399 is equivalent to £205 so we're paying £64 over the odds02:01
gpdMilhouse -- US prices don't include state tax02:02
MilhouseJaffa: I have time, and more importantly money, on my hands! :)02:02
gpdso mine was actually 432.9902:02
gpdwith CA tax etc02:02
Milhouseok, so $432 prolly works out about £212 :)02:02
Milhousemaybe £22002:03
gpdI am trying to make mysefl feel better as I am moving back to the UK in March!02:03
gpdhaving lived in Los Angeles for 4 years...02:03
Milhousemate, you should stay...02:03
gpdpresumably this mistral distribution will be ok on the N800?02:03
gpdtell me about it -- it is currently glorious sunshine and not a cloud in the sky02:04
gpdhowever, this doesn't do well for playing with gadgets ;)02:04
WillySillyexcept all the smog02:04
MilhouseCan't imagine why anyone would want to come back to this country02:04
kaatisfrom news: "January 7, 2007, Maemo 3.0 'bora' is released. Maemo 3.0 supports application development for the latest Nokia N800 Internet Tablet. In maemo 3.0 we have upgraded to the latest Scratchbox Apophis R4 as a cross-compiling development environment."02:05
ferencmaemo 3.0 'bora' is launched. check the details at :)02:05
kaatisferenc, that's old news :P02:05
Milhouseand developers get a discounted device!02:05
Milhouse99 eur per device - nice02:06
gpdkaatis: not new to me - had to do a hard reload to get that page :)02:06
ferenckaatis: true :) i was not able to type here and release the site at the same time. i should learn that next time :)02:06
gpdok - so i'm adding the main maemo repository with bora distribution -- downloading02:07
c0ffeeah, mean02:08
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JaffaOK, if I can get to qualify for a developer device... ;-)02:08
c0ffeeit doesn't say where to apply for a developer device02:08
JaffaNo, I've just noticed that.02:08
nomisferenc: is a 770 developer device recipient uneligble for an N800 discount?  ;)02:08
Milhousefrence - will Bora (Maemo 3.0) be released for the 770?02:08
gpdpresumably i need a terminal before anything else02:08
Milhouseferenc, sorry02:09
Jaffaferenc: where's the "can I have a discount, please" link? ;-)02:09
kaatisFast install instructions02:09
kaatis1) add the line "deb ./" to host's sources.list02:09
kaatis2) say "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install `apt-cache search ^scratchbox | cut -f1 -d" "` xserver-xephyr"02:09
gpdthen probably dropbear, vim... then the world is my clam02:09
kaatis3) add yourself to scratchbox group by saying "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser $USER" 4) start a new shell with your user (group kicks in from login)02:09
kaatis5) wget and start maemo 3.0 installer with "bash"02:09
ferencMilhouse: no probs. many apps should run on the N800 out of box.02:09
NickDeferenc: would OS2006 apps run ok on OS2007?02:10
ferencthough i would recommend to recompile all apps with the best ever SDK we have ;)02:10
Milhouseno what i meant was, would Bora/Maemo3/OS2007 be released as an upgrade for the 770?02:10
NickDelike console apps/ssh/xterm etc02:10
NickDeMilhouse: that to :)02:10
c0ffeeferenc, what about the developer devices?02:10
Milhouseor is that it for the 770 - stop at 770?02:10
Milhousebugger, stop at 2006?02:10
Jaffaferenc: going off the 770 dev programme, email to ?02:11
gpdkaatis: were those install instructions relevent to me?02:11
ferencJaffa: the dev devel programme is different this time. noone has to apply.02:11
JaffaOh, people are going to be chosen and emailed?02:11
c0ffeeferenc, so when will i receive my discount code? :)02:11
llebloody hell, I think I lost my bet with tko about sb2 being ready before maemo switches to sb102:12
|tbb|the bad thing will be that the navkit especially the holder will not compatible with the new nokia 80002:12
Milhousebasically - what are the future plans for 770 firmware upgrades, keep in step with N800 or is that it for the 770 now (no more OS upgrades)02:12
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c0ffeeoh boy oh boy oh boy02:13
Jaffaferenc: who do we have to be nice to to sway the picking? Can you share any details on it? e.g. targetted to non-current Maemo developers to entice them in?02:13
ferencMilhouse: we will not keep in step with the N800, but you will here 770 related news.02:13
c0ffeeferenc, can you at least tell us, when the device program will contact people?02:13
Jaffai.e. when should we stop hoping ;-)02:14
Milhousethanks ference - i'm sure it will be a cause of concern to many 770 owners02:14
ferencc0ffee: i don't know. i am not in the team who "contacts" the developers.02:14
c0ffeewhere's devesh!02:14
NickDeferenc: in reference to the n800 (which I have had for a few hours now) would it be possible for me to install OS2006 openssh/xterm etc packages. Will the flasher still work -> RD mode?02:15
ferencMilhouse: yes, and we are aware of that. but here at we try to support the developers as much as we can.02:15
JaffaMilhouse: and developers who don't upgrade. I don't much fancy having *four* Scratchbox targets for Sylpheed, Java etc.02:15
ferencNickDe: let me try.02:15
kaatisgpd, yes if you're on debian/ubuntu and like to try the latest sdk02:15
c0ffeeNickDe, there's a flasher-3.002:15
NickDeferenc: only reason I ask is at the moment I can't reflash this thing if stuff screws up02:15
NickDec0ffee: I did not know.. excellent that must have been recent02:16
NickDeferenc: is there an OS2007 image available at the moment?02:16
ferencNickDe: osso-xterm is part of the bora SDK "Debian" repo.02:16
NickDeferenc: excellent02:17
ferencNickDe: not at the moment, but we will publish the image. i guess it will be there this week.02:17
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* gpd grins widely after starting up osso-xterm 02:17
NickDeferenc: ok cool thanks for the info02:17
ferencthe source of the OS 2007 will also be available02:17
Disconnectso catch me up - is this thing official yet? (and if so, why is tableteer still prompting for a password??)02:17
NickDeyeah I figured02:17
NickDeI am flying to CES on tues and want a nice working n80002:17
Jaffaferenc: I love the way your announcements are so immediate after 00:00 on 2007-01-08 GMT :)02:17
NickDeha h ah02:17
ferencJaffa: was it really?02:18
* Jaffa 'd assumed it was planned, not coincidence TBH ;-)02:18
ferenci thought i will be late, the publishing was a little slow. and right now i am not in Suomi.02:18
NickDeit looks like the n800 was actually built to be used with your fingers on the screen.. it looks to be a nice solid surface that wont mark as easily.. is this the case ferenc ?? in your opinion02:18
ferencJaffa: it was planned of course02:18
DisconnectNickDe: fwiw mine looks like the 770...02:19
ferencNickDe: no idea about HW design, sorry02:19
Disconnect(and seems to mark as easily)02:19
Jaffaference: Well, 4 minutes late's OK - I was about to go to bed.02:19
NickDeDisconnect: I dont know man.. the 770 had this loose film on top while the n800 seems to have a solid surface02:19
NickDeDisconnect: I guess I'll have to screen protect this thing as well huh02:20
jtokashyeah, the 800's surface seems much less squishy02:20
ferencNickDe:  osso-xterm installs just fine.02:20
c0ffeethe 770 also has a fat thumb fullscreen keyboard02:20
Disconnectmy 770 didn't seem loose02:20
Disconnectc0ffee: same in 80002:20
gpdi am reluctant to remove the screen protector just yet02:20
c0ffeeso i guess before are for fingering02:20
c0ffeeoh man02:20
gpdyou can certainly use fingers even with the plastic on02:20
jtokashgpd, most of us don't use screen protectors on our 770s, fyi02:20
NickDegpd: just remove it.. use the device02:20
NickDeyou cant baby it forever02:21
Milhouseanyone able to identify the CPU yet?02:21
gpdNickDe: I can for today :)02:21
jtokashThat's coming from someone who always put protectors on palm devices.02:21
c0ffeeferenc, you mail says there are details about the developer program on :)02:21
Disconnectwas gonna leave mine ln but that silver tab was in my way02:21
NickDeha ha ha02:21
ferenckaatis: i wish i could install the SDK right now, but my connection here is too slow.02:21
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gpdit is running a 2.6.18 kernel02:21
ferencc0ffee: i meant the annoucement :)02:21
c0ffeemean! :)02:22
Milhouse2.6.16 on 77002:22
ferenci guess we have to make it clear that this time developer do not need to apply.02:22
NickDebut you know after a year of use my 770 screen protector shows little marks on it anyways02:22
Milhousewould have expected omap2 if it were an omap2410 - wonder what that means...02:22
NickDefor the n800 I am going to say screw it and just go sans screen protector.. I figure this thing was designed to be used with a stylus and should be good to go out of the box02:22
gpdcat /proc/cpuinfo says ... Processor : Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 v6102:23
Jaffaferenc: yeah. If you wanted to be *really* open sourcey about it, you could get nominations from the public and hold a poll ;-) Or has the list been selected already?02:23
ferenckaatis; how is the dual boot thingy?02:23
Disconnect ferenc: apply to what?02:23
ferencDisconnect: developers do not need to apply for the device developer program02:24
Milhousegpd: how bizarre... I wonder why the secrecy?02:24
Disconnectthen who does?02:24
shaprjtokash: My IIIx and IIIc screens got horribly scratched, but a year of heavy use has not affected my 770 screen.02:24
ferencJaffa: AFAIK the list is not finalized, but believe me the selection is based on the previous maemo/770 activities02:24
jtokashshapr, interesting!02:24
ferencDisconnect: nobody02:24
Jaffaferenc: thanks, incl. # of lines on #maemo? ;-)02:25
shaprI hope the N800 screen is as scratch resistant.02:25
c0ffeeferenc, does hacking the root accout qualify me? :)02:25
JaffaThat'd be a bad, bad metric :)02:25
* Disconnect already got sent to sanfran, not likely to be eligable anyway ;)02:25
Jaffa(number of chat lines, not root hacking ;-))02:25
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c0ffeec'mon ferenc02:26
c0ffeegive some more info02:26
* Jaffa wonders about releasing proper a couple of the things he's got lying on his HD (e.g. ArcEm, galculator, NetSurf) and moving Sylpheed from the ApplicationCatalog2006Wip page to boost his profile ;-)02:26
shaprDo you guys know the matching repositories for  osso-xterm, ssh, becomeroot, and vi?02:26
shaprA friend of mine is exchanging the N770 he bought *yesterday* for an N800 that'll be in stock in a few days in Portland, OR02:27
shaprSo I'm writing a quick intro to getting bunch of fun packages on maemo02:27
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gpdshapr++ just what i need02:27
PaavoI'd say the double RAM alone would be worth the upgrade.02:27
shaprMy intro goes like this: 1. install a few matching apt sources by hand 2. install becomeroot, osso-xterm, ssh, and vi 3. Run vi  /etc/apt/sources.list to put in the entire list of apt sources from
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shapr4. Profit!02:28
shaprActually, 4. is "wildly install packages from the Application Manager"02:28
Jaffashapr: vi's built-in as std now (although vim isn't)02:29
shaproh nice02:29
gpdshapr: the application manager seems nice enough for now02:29
Jaffashapr: openssh just requires and osso-xterm, best version is inz's02:29
shackananybody knows how to participate into the Developer Device Program ?02:30
disqi wonder if i should order one n800 right away, got a friend in the us right now she's due back thursday :)02:30
Milhouseferenc - any ideas what is up with the poor flash performance on the n800, is it running unoptimised code?02:30
disqtho i think it's best to wait for the specs first02:30
Jaffashackan: ferenc's said it's a selection panel, rather than an application process.02:30
shaprdisq: most specs are known, go for it!02:30
ferencc0ffee: no idea if hacking root will be enough to get the discount.02:30
gpdhello from my n800 ... the joy of screen02:30
disqshapr: cpu cpu cpu02:30
Disconnectdisq: what specs are you missing?02:30
shaprdisq: afaik, speed is known, thought not exact model02:31
ferencMilhouse: don't know unfortunately.02:31
shaprgpd: yay!02:31
Milhousedisq: given the disproprotionate difference in cost between the US and Europe I'd get your friend to pick one up for you02:31
c0ffeeferenc, well, it's ofcourse not all i did :)02:31
arjhas anyone upgraded to 3.0 on 770 yet?02:31
Disconnectwhat are you gonna do, buy one with the cpu you want..?02:31
disqmmm true dat02:31
shaprYeah, rumor has it the N800 will be 400 usd or 500 euro02:31
shackanJaffa, so they already have their list of lucky wannabe developers ?02:31
disqarj: i think you can't do that :)02:31
floriangood night02:31
c0ffeethe n800 is 399 euro in germany02:31
* Disconnect blew up his dev box :(02:32
Jaffashackan: hang on, it'll be in the log02:32
gpdcrap - now i need to work out how to do Ctrl-a d02:32
shaprc0ffee: Ouch, that's still ~520USD02:32
arjI just saw the message on the maemo-users list02:32
Disconnectmaemo mapper better be on that list :)02:32
shackanJaffa, thanks, I'm checking right now02:32
pigeonso... about that developer device program... ;)02:33
* Jaffa imagines this going on all night, so beds since he's got paying work tomorrow.02:33
shaprJaffa: inz osso-xterm?02:33
shaprah, g'nite02:34
gpdanyone got a pointer to a ctrl key?02:34
shaprgpd: If it's osso-xterm you're using, the menu can send control keys.02:34
ferencJaffa: night02:34
Disconnectsomeone /topic the "don't call us, we'll call you" dev program info02:34
c0ffeei made the channel -t today02:34
gpdsweet - thanks shapr02:35
c0ffeefeel free to mess with the topic02:35
arjdisq: seems you're right02:35
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* gpd does a little dance - the joy of toys 02:35
*** shapr changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you"02:35
c0ffeereleasing the info about the developer program so short before i want to go to bed is really mean :)02:35
disqokay then i'm instructing my friend to check compusa after tomorrow02:35
*** shapr changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | shapr hugs Finland more"02:36
shaprJaffa: Thanks02:36
Milhouse$360 in the NYC Nokia store apparently02:36
disqdev program is very good but my app doesn't even install in 2.1 right now so i don't think i deserve that :)02:36
shackanJaffa, what timing! it seems the announcement was made right before I came here to ask :)02:36
shaprMilhouse: I wonder if nokia-usa web orders will be that cheap too?02:36
Milhousedunno, try the link to the direct shop02:37
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shaprI'm looking forward to getting an N800 so I can play with OLSRd, after which I shall give my N770 to my girlfriend, who wants one very much.02:37
gpdin general - should I drain the battery before charging - or not give a crap?02:37
NickDegpd: lion should never be discharged02:37
NickDegpd: but the circuitry prevents you from discharging below a dangerous level anyways02:38
NickDegpd: you shoudlnt give a crap02:38
akkProbably stupid question: if I want to update my OS which file should I download?02:38
NickDeyou should also take the screen protector off :)02:38
gpdNickDe: that is the answer I was looking for02:38
akkSU-18_2006SE_2.2006.39-14_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin or Nokia_770_SE2005_5_2006_13_7.bin or what?02:38
disqMilhouse: is it on sale today?02:39
MilhouseIt is in some European countries02:39
disqmy impression was they were shipped but won't be sold until the CES announcement02:39
jtokashferenc: Someone on ITT forums says that the n800 supports 4GB SD cards.  Do you know if it also supports HDSD (8gb) cards?02:39
Milhousejust trawling the Nokia US site and can't find the N80002:39
Jaffadisq: The Nokia online store is selling them as "in stock" now.02:39
disqfrack the nokia site :P02:39
ferencjtokash: no idea. i wish i had an 8 gig card here ;)02:40
MilhouseN800 not on Nokia US site02:40
Disconnecttableteer is still unusable on 800\02:40 still redirects to the N80 phone02:40
shaprakk: SE2005 is old02:40
MilhouseI guess these links may go live after the official announcement02:40
ferencyes, just tried that too. it requires authentication :)02:40
shaprakk: 2006 is the current OS, and 2007 will probably be announced tomorrow.02:41
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Disconnect-any- tableteer link forwards02:41
akkshapr: Ah! I didn't notice it was 2005. Thanks. Think I should wait for 2007?02:41
shaprakk: Not unless you already have the sequel to the Nokai 770, the Nokia 80002:41
c0ffeei shall try to sleep02:41
shaprafter all that c0ffee ?02:42
akkshapr: Nope, just a 770. Thanks.02:42
c0ffeeferenc either doesn't have or doesn't share information02:42
MilhouseThis comment on Engadget: "I saw them at the new Nokia Store at 57 St & 5 Ave in NYC. There's a big display with them so I messing around with one and came away somewhat impressed. It was selling for something like $360."02:42
MilhouseSo Nokia have blown their own embargo????02:42
c0ffeeand it's unlikely that this will change within the next few hours02:42
shaprakk: If you just purchased your 770, you could alway send it back and get an 800 instead!02:42
c0ffeeso i can try to sleep as well :)02:42
akkshapr: Heh, alas, no. I've had it a long time, gathering dust, thought I'd update it and play with it.02:43
Disconnectakk: get the 2006 os02:43
shaprakk: Well, if you don't want yours, I'd love to have another =)02:43
* nomis waves to akk.02:43
akkhi, nomis02:43
ferenci hope you guys check this site too:
ferencnot too many OS 2007 apps there yet though02:43
shaprI want to have a beowulf cluster of Nokia tablets in my backpack, you see...02:44
akkshapr: I'll keep you in mind! I've thought maybe I should sell it, but I really want to like it ...02:44
NickDealright n800 in RD mode02:44
ferencwe (maemo2midgard team) would appreciate all your feedbacks.02:44
Jaffaferenc: it's looking good, but the orange search box is perhaps a bit strong.02:45
ferencalso check the User Manual please, if you have the nerves.02:45
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NickDehey quick question how the hell do I get this thing into stand by mode?!02:45
ferencJaffa: hmm :( i like it.02:45
NickDethe n80002:45
JaffaNo, must *really* go to bed (argh, but I'm reading the bora porting guide)02:45
NickDeso I dont have to keep shutting it off to save batt power02:45
gpdi'm hitting all the newbie questions here - Escape in osso-xterm?02:45
Jaffaferenc: I dunno, the contrast with the white isn't particularly strong on this Mac OS X box.02:45
NickDethe 770 would slip into sleep with the cover being placed on .. so whats the equiv. for the n80002:45
JaffaYou got a manual?02:45
NickDeJaffa: :) yes...02:46
ferencin case we have IE users: we know there is an issue with the rendering, but will be looking into that.02:46
NickDeI will rtfm02:46
nomisNickDe: and please tell if you find out. I don't have an N800, but curious about this question as well.02:46
arjI was wondering how people mount their n770 in the car, either for canola or for the GPS thing02:46
NickDenomis: will do02:46
Disconnectarj: poorly, in my case :)02:47
NickDecomp usa had 2gb sdcards for 49.99 I snagged 202:47
arjisn't there anyone who have made something for that?02:47
NickDeyay 4 gb of storage02:47
DisconnectNickDe: that seems high02:48
NickDeDisconnect: ?02:48
NickDe39.99 more like it02:48
NickDefor 2gb sd cards02:48
NickDefigured it was a good enough deal02:48
Jaffaferenc: The porting guide for Maemo 3.0 says libconic is preferred over libosso-ic, but the Monkey Bubble one still talks about libosso-ic-preload in LD_PRELOAD. Is there a libconic equivalent?02:48
shaprferenc: How about a tiny "What's the difference?" link next to the IT OS <select>? Even if it just pops up a table showing the exact release date of each OS, it would help the confused.02:49
NickDeDisconnect: meg02:49
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Disconnectwas expecting less actually. but if amazon says $35 I1d expect to find $25 somewhere reasonable02:50
gpdif I want to ssh in - do i just passwd user - and ssh away?02:51
shaprgpd: -l root and password is rootme02:51
shaprgpd: That's with OS2006 at least02:51
Jaffaferenc: did I read correctly that had ApplicationCatalog2006 moved over to it at some point? What about ...Wip (since I notice the "under development")... When did it happen, since it's missing Sylpheed :-(02:51
gpdshapr: works with N800 too :) thanks again02:52
gpdpresumbably there is no danger in changing that password?02:52
gpdI am slightly too paranoid about bricking this thing atm02:53
JaffaWith all the fuss about the N800, it's easy to forget just how fab the 770 is. Just look at the quality of the screen on :-D02:53
ferencshapr: i have heard that the guys are going to prepare that html (and .csv) file next week.02:53
JaffaOh, can anyone with an N800 check if the online output of VidConvert works with it?02:54
ferencJaffa: i can't help you there, sorry, i have no clue :(02:54
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gpdJaffa: if you give me instructions i can - no idea what you are talking about however02:55
Jaffaferenc: ok, no probs02:55
Jaffagpd: hang on, I'll send you a link once a test vid's finished converting.02:55
shaprgpd: Once you've installed sshd, I think there's danger in *not* changing the password.. since every device is has the same login/pw.02:55
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Jaffagpd: - open that in the browser, it's still converting, but once it's complete you'll end up with a video. Click on the video and select "Open" from the dialogue which pops up.02:56
gpdshapr: aye - just checking no wierd behaviour02:56
ferenc Jaffa: about app catalog: we migrated the ApplicationCatalog2006 content.02:56
Jaffaferenc: ah, OK, cool. Then "downgraded" stuff which was less stable than others?02:56
disq<- psyched02:57
ferencyou can enter sylpheed there and set status "development".02:57
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ferencJaffa: sorry i did not get it.02:57
Jaffaferenc: I was just wondering how the statuses were determined, but that makes sense. Thanks.02:57
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gpdso should i ssh in as root - or set a password for user and use that?03:01
ferenci am off now. good night from this part of the world.03:01
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gpdJaffa: your video is opening...03:01
Jaffagpd: the video conversion's finished so going to should now just have a nice clear AVI available03:01
JaffaAh, cool :)03:01
gpdyup seems clear and fast03:01
JaffaIt should be a video you recognise03:01
gpdyes -- the reason i bought this thing today03:01
jtokashman, I should have put my blog url in that video03:02
jtokashit's getting a lot of playtime03:02
gpdyou should have done a commentary for 15 minutes of fame03:02, btw03:02
Jaffajtokash: sorry, it was the first YouTube video which came to mind ;-)03:03
jtokashI didn't want to wake the kids03:03
jtokashoh, no, don't be sorry03:03
gpdwhich reminds me i haven't tried my camera yet03:03
jtokashI'm glad!03:03
Disconnectgpd: try it and let me know your opinion03:03
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gpdopened the camera -- application starts - very nice03:04
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gpda little dark in here so green flecks - light on now = better03:04
jtokashIt's shocking to me that they didn't include a video or photo recording app on the n80003:05
jtokashjust crazy03:05
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jtokashSomeone left a comment on my blog saying that the blue lights under the dpad will not have an api, but the camera does03:05
Disconnect`better` or `decent`?03:05
Disconnectcamera is v4l03:05
gpdwell - it isn't fantastic - but still fairly low light levels03:05
Disconnect...fwiw even in decent light mine looks like hell03:06
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gpdno in daylight it looks 'pretty good'03:07
Disconnectvery festive. crisp, full of glitter.03:07
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gpdthere is a tendecny to have green flecks to the sides without good light03:08
Jaffajtokash: nice easy thing for someone to start with.03:08
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MilhouseAnyone plugged the N800 into a windows USB port? Does it mention the connected device is only USB 1.1 etc and could perform better (blah blah)? If not, it's probably a USB2 device :)03:10
gpdwhat chat clients support video on linux? does gaim?03:10
gpdMilhouse: will plug in now03:11
gpdBus 003 Device 007: ID 0421:04c3 Nokia Mobile Phones03:12
danguycan you give as a -vv of that?03:12
gpdnot sureusb 3-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 703:12
gpdVendor: Nokia     Model: N800              Rev: 031603:13
Milhousedo you have a 770 for comparison?03:13
Milhouselet me plug mine in03:13
disqso i guess nokia will be releasing a N820 just a few days after my N800's screen starts (it probably will, same screen) to lose sensitivity :P03:13
gpdnot sure how to check usb1 or 2 in linux03:13
gpdok lshw says:03:14
gpdcapabilities: usb-2.00 scsi emulated scsi-host03:14
gpdconfiguration: driver=usb-storage maxpower=50mA speed=480.0MB03:14
gpdthat is fairly convincingly usb203:14
c0ffeecan't sleep :(03:14
WillySillyhmmm, maybe telepathy might be new enough to support a video conf app03:14
WillySillyalthough I doubt it03:15
jtokashI'll check on windows usb03:15
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Milhousejust having to reboot my 770 as it wont mount usb while the mmc is in use - grrrr03:16
gpdWillySilly: is there a client you would recommend for video chat on linux.  I see telepathy-gnome package - but that isn't going to help03:16
Jaffac0ffee: I've been busy updating public-facing 770 stuff (e.g. ) just in case that helps sway it.03:17
JaffaBut now I'm knackered.03:17
jtokashI can't see anything indicating usb1 or 203:17
c0ffeegn8 Jaffa (again) :)03:17
WillySillythere is that script that the telepathy guys used for the OLPC, but I dont know if all the telepathy components are new enough on the n80003:17
gpdapt-cache search video chat gives telepahty-gabble and wengophone03:18
gpd[i'm talking about regular desktop ubuntu btw]03:19
WillySillygpd: have commandline on the n800?03:19
gpdWillySilly: yes - i have osso-xterm running03:19
gpddoesn't look like the N800 can use power off usb either :(03:20
WillySillyi think telepathy-stream-engine -v will give you the version03:20
WillySillyor that might be verbose03:20
gpdit is just running with lots of messages03:21
jtokashgpd, what did you do to get osso-xterm working?03:21
jtokashI have it installed but it doesn't work03:21
Milhousejust mounted my 770, went into Device Manager drill down into Universal Serial Bus controllers, expanded the "USB Mass Storage Device" for the 770 and clicked on the Detail tab - if it doesn't mention USB2 (which it didnt, but did for my USB2 card reader) then it's not USB203:21
jtokashMaybe I installed from the wrong place.03:21
gpdjtokash: i went to application manager - put in the with the new distribution03:21
Milhouseon the Detail tab scroll through the device capabilities - it will hopefully mention USB2 in the capabilities for the N80003:22
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gpdWillySilly: -h --version -V all do the same03:22
gpdstill not sure how to have a video chat with myself to a linux desktop03:23
jtokashoh, ok, cool, thanks03:23
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framerategreetings, guys03:25
MilhouseN800 hardware details now on
MilhouseCPU is a 330Mhz TI OMAP242003:25
framerateI just got an N800 trying to get into maemo development and usage, is that possible at this time or are we playing the waiting game?03:26
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gpdframerate: I just got mine about 3 hours ago -- never had a 770.  i have xterm and ssh running so far03:26
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framerategpd point me towards xterm, that would awesome to get running03:27
Jaffaframerate: Maemo 3.0 "bora" has been uploaded to maemo.org03:27
bmidgleyJaffa: the sdk or a flash image?03:27
framerateI'm way new to this... what do I need to know to get it working?03:28
framerateAm i flashing internal memory?03:28
gpdframerate: if you go to application manager - you can add the maemo repository03:28
gpdno - nothing that serious03:28
frameratek I must have typed it wrong, I get a "can't update list" error or something similar03:28
Jaffabmidgley: the SDK, no flash image of OS 2007 or any Maemo 3.0-based OS for Nokia 770s yet03:28
gpdbefore you add the maemo stuff i *think* you have to setup 'the red pill'03:28
gpdi certainly did - but not sure if that was entirely necessary03:29
* gpd blindly leads the blind03:29
bmidgleyanyone confirming that the n800 has 2006 second edition?03:29
gpdno OS 200703:29
Jaffabmidgley: No, it has OS 200703:29
framerate'the read pill'? haha I hate being "blind". Someone fix me! :)03:29
WillySillyIt has the 2007 edition03:29
bmidgleyah nice03:29
gpdframerate: in application manager - click new... then wipe the http:// from the location -- and put in matrix --- then click on another field... then press cancel03:30
gpdchoose the red pill03:30
frameratehaha you're not serious03:30
gpdit seems i am03:30
framerateholy shit03:31
framerateyou are!03:31
gpdhowever, - before you do that03:31
gpdi would try without and see if it works03:31
gpdgo to application manager - then add catalogue03:31
mcpeepantsi'm just wondering, can the new 800 be charged over the usb port?03:31
gpdmcpeepants: i am plugged into usb now and awaiting confirmation03:31
shackanMilhouse, sends me to a N80 page03:32
MilhouseOMAP2420 has hardware that allows "Full motion video encoding or decoding at rates up to VGA at 30 frames per second" - sweet, lets hope it's documented!03:32
gpdthe battery icon shows 'estimated battery time left' :(03:32
Milhouseyes, it's not live yet - my guess is it will be after the official announcement at CES03:32
mcpeepantsok, that would have been a nice feature03:32
frameratethe red pull thing is awesome... Where can I get more info on what that is?03:32
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gpdmcpeepants: my battery is not going down - but can't be sure yet03:32
gpdframerate: try adding the maemo repositry with bora distribution before you do that03:33
gpdi wonder if it is necessary03:33
framerateI already did it >.>03:33
gpddid it update?03:33
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framerateIt didn't do anything that I can see03:33
framerateI clicked it and it went away03:33
gpddid you put components free non-free?03:34
framerateWait, what is the components field supposed to say?03:34
MilhouseOMPA2420 has "Dual slot MMC/SD/SDIO transceivers - powered independently" so it's possible the SD slots are SDIO compatible03:34
gpdframerate: free non-free03:34
shackancan the N800 read pdf files ?03:35
gpdshackan: yes the manual is pdf03:36
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|tbb|is there a navkit available for the n80003:36
framerategpd: that red pill mode just made my night :) that's a sweet easter egg03:37
MilhouseI'm sure accessories such as the nav kit will become available for the N800 once the N800 is announced03:37
framerate now to find that terminal :)03:38
gpdframerate: indeed - very cool... not sure exactly what it does though03:38
framerate|tbb| I'm looking for maemo mapper for my bluetooth gps03:38
framerateif I figure anything out I'll let you know :(03:38
gpdI am annoyed that I can't find a telepathy client that supports video on regular linux03:39
frameratewhat is the definition of the "components" field? is it just a filter?03:39
|tbb|ididnt ask anything about maemo mapper03:39
framerateoh, I thought you meant navkit software my bad03:40
|tbb|i got the navkit allready for the n77003:40
gpdframerate: sort of - it is the same with all debian repositories - eg. main free non-free etc03:40
* framerate is a gentoo user o.O03:40
gpdframerate: in that case could you search for a video enabled xmpp client in your source tree03:41
gpdI'm seeing gossip landell cohoba gnomeUI - none of which have screenshots showing video03:42
framerategpd - check
framerateWhat is the terminal under on this repos?03:42
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bmidgleydoes the n800 use the same battery?03:43
ntrsHi all03:43
ntrsCan I use the tablet 2006 applications on the new n800? N800 has tables 2007 OS03:43
c0ffeeyou have to try it out03:44
Takanyone have details about the developer device program?03:44
c0ffeeonly that a 'team' will contact developers this time03:45
c0ffeeand it probably will be based on the contributions to maemo so far03:45
c0ffeeand the list is said to be not yet complete03:45
cduvanyone knows any alternative to connect vpn to Microsoft networks with the N770? thanks03:46
c0ffeedepends on what software your microsoft network uses, right?03:46
dragornTheres a ton of vpn software out there.  Figure out what your net uses and then look for something compatible.03:46
cduvc0ffe: ISA server03:47
c0ffeeno idea what that is03:47
c0ffeethere's a vpnc client (cisco ipsec) and a openvpn client available03:47
c0ffeeshouldn't be too difficult to compile the pptp client03:47
dragornfind out the protos and algos and then search for an OSS implementation03:47
cduvc0ffe:  ok, I'll take a look on them03:48
shackanTak, from the topic it seems it's a no-go unless you already owned a 770 and developed on it and thus contributed something :\03:48
gpdI have found gaim-vv - a video chat plugin for gaim, maybe this will work with the N800 chat client03:48
dragornTook me a year to get a 770, and about 8 hours to fix the kismet bugs once I did. :P  Hopefully the 800 "just works"03:48
|tbb|did u port the kismet?03:49
* dragorn wrote the kismet. :P03:49
framerateAny good GPS software I should look for? N800 compatible?03:49
dragornframerate: maemo is all I know of.03:49
dragornframerate: err.  maemomapper, that is.03:50
c0ffeeand the gps software nokia sells03:50
framerateIs maemo-mapper confirmed on a N800? I'm working on that right now03:50
dragornporting roadnav might be fairly trivial, but you're limited to the tiger public vector US data...  you could do worse, but it's not that great, either03:51
c0ffeethere aren't many people owning an 800 yet03:51
* gpd gives up looking for linux video chat clients :(03:51
framerateI know c0ffee, just wishful thinking :)03:51
dragornthat would be porting roadnav to maemo, not from 770 to 80003:51
frameratemain apps I want are maemo mapper, terminal, and doom :)03:51
gpdhow do i tell if my usb cable is powering the device?03:52
|tbb|is it possible to use the gps unit which is shipped with the navkit with kismet?03:52
dragorngpd: shell, cat /proc/acpi probably.  or look at see if it kicks to charger mode.03:52
dragorn|tbb|: No idea.  If gpsd talks to it, then yes.  I'd expect it to talk NMEA, no reason for it to do something else.03:52
dragorn|tbb|: Kismet at the moment requires gpsd still.  The next release in a few days will still be the stable codebase, and require gpsd still.  Eventually I'll finish the newcore base and add direct serial drivers to it for gps to make it behave more like maemomapper03:53
gpdno sign of /proc/acpi - but now that the cable is not connected the screen is blanking more -- so I suspect USB now charges :D03:53
framerateoh, and gaim.. that was the other one03:54
dragornand because gpsd is often anything but stable and I'm tired of depending on it03:54
dragorngpd: that was just a guess.  Might look around /proc more for apm/acpi info03:54
framerateAm I correct to assume this repos for bora will be updated as software is updated?03:55
gpdi am surprised that /var/log only has wtmp03:55
bmidgleyi will love having an IM client I can scribble into like doodles in gaim for yahoo03:56
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gpdbmidgley: have you found one for the n800/770?03:57
gpdthat reminds me - i should look at the gizmoproject03:57
bmidgleythere is a port of gaim that should do it03:57
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bmidgleyhaven't tried it03:57
gpdok - when you plug the usb cable in the battery icon says 'connected via usb' - again not proof03:58
c0ffeewhat are you trying to proof?03:58
gpdthat the N800 can be powered by USB -- I thought it was under question03:58
gpdisn't it true that the 770 can't ?03:59
mcpeepantsgpd: what does dmesg if u plug in the usb?03:59
gpdor am I talking pants03:59
c0ffeeit can't03:59
gpd[ 7978.672546] g_file_storage gadget: high speed config #103:59
gpd[ 7982.171203] EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled03:59
gpd[ 8044.496856] omapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: setting update mode to disabled03:59
|tbb|what processor is in the n800 will it be much faster then the n770 one?04:00
c0ffeeit's a 330MHz ARM04:00
c0ffeesee the FAQ on maemo.org04:00
gpdBogoMIPS        : 320.3704:00
c0ffeegpd, the usb power isn't enough to charge a nokia battery04:00
gpdc0ffee: but will it run off usb - without charging the battery?04:01
c0ffeei doubt that04:02
c0ffeebecause the power supply is cabled through the battery04:02
|tbb|what r for example the latest ipaq uses for a processor?04:02
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bmidgleyxscale mostly04:03
bmidgleyn770 was a TI not sure about the n80004:03
bmidgleydirect mhz comparisons aren't useful04:03
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|tbb|anyone run gpsd with the n77004:03
c0ffeen800 is an omap204:04
ssvbbmidgley: it is OMAP242004:04
c0ffee770 is omap104:04
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NickDedid anyone figure out how to put the n800 into standby?04:05
ssvbhmm, this s1d1374x seems to be also some epson video chip04:05
bmidgleyi like having prefs so putting the cover on shuts down wireless04:06
|tbb|what the mylo uses04:07
bmidgleyhas anyone worked out a way to charge using a computer's usb port, like with an adapter?04:11
c0ffeeit's probably not possible04:12
gpdc0ffee: charger for N800 says 5V 890mA04:13
gpdwhat is the USB 2 limit?04:14
Milhousedoesn't mean it wont charge, just that it might charge very slowly04:14
c0ffeeit wont charge04:15
c0ffeebecause it's not wired to the battery04:15
Milhousefair enough then :)04:15
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lleMilhouse: you can get 800mA from usb04:18
MilhouseI always thought the power limit over USB was 500ma04:18
llethe device has to specifically ask for it though04:18
lle500mA is the default04:19
c0ffeeit can get 500 per standard04:19
lleinitially you get less though04:19
c0ffeeand the default is 10004:19
lle100 you get without registering with the host04:19
lle500 you get after registering and 800 if you ask04:19
c0ffeeeven 800 is too little04:20
lleand some people draw over 1A regardless of any standards ;)04:20
llethat's ofcourse just asking for trouble04:21
NickDethere is no mention of standby in the manual for the n80004:21
NickDeam I missing something here?04:21
c0ffeeyou can turn of wireless and the display04:22
c0ffeesafes you tons of energy04:22
c0ffeethe 770 could also go to sleep04:22
bmidgleyNickDe: what menu do you get when tapping the power button?04:22
c0ffeei guess the 800 can as well04:22
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frameratedang looks like doom is a no-go on the 800 ; ;04:23
gpdmenu on power button is:04:23
NickDeLock touch screen and keys/Offline Mode/Lock Device/Switch Off04:23
gpdlock touch screen and keys04:23
gpdoffline mode04:23
gpdlock device04:23
gpdswitch off!04:23
bmidgleyhmm no different04:23
NickDedoes this thing not go to sleep?04:23
framerateNick doesn't it go to sleep if you lock it and let it sit?04:24
NickDehmm perhaps I guess04:24
lleNickDe: doesn't need to, specifically. power mgmt ought to be smart enough.04:24
framerateOr are you looking for a deeper sleep?04:24
NickDeI figured something similar to the 770 and putting its shield on04:24
gpdshould i ssh in as 'user' or can i change the account name - or setup a new account?04:24
c0ffeelle, weren't you the guy that used to work at nokia?04:25
bmidgleycan't apps still do stuff when the 770 cover is on?04:25
llec0ffee: yeah, and will soon, again04:25
danielswhether the cover's on or not has no effect on sleep.  if there's nothing to run, then the device will go to sleep.  meaning, it can drop in and out of sleep a bajillion times per second.04:25
c0ffeelle, you wouldn't happen to have interesting insider info on the developer device program, you might want to share with me? :)04:25
|tbb|n8 all04:26
lledaniels: not bajillion ;) that would consume more power than full throttle all the time, at least that's how it was with 770 ;)04:26
llec0ffee: no, unfortunately no ;)04:26
danielslle: well, we're dynticking now04:26
c0ffeebuuhuu :(04:26
c0ffeenokia is costing me a whole night of sleep04:27
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danielslle: so i assume you're not going to be in early tomorrow then ;)04:28
NickDelock screen and keys04:28
NickDeseems to put it into a standby mode04:28
lledaniels: oh I will ;) not planning to go to bed anymore, pointless :D04:28
danielslle: ouch.04:28
lledaniels: woke up in the late afternoon, so no problem04:28
gpdis there a page or faq for things not to do on the tablet that I might do normally on a regular debian system?04:28
danielslle: yeah, i woke up at 11pm on saturday.  oops.04:29
c0ffeeapt-get upgrade can lead to troubles04:29
gpdok - what about user accounts?04:29
lledaniels: hehe, also took a two hour nap watching the spanish league soccer game04:30
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llenot that it was boring or anything, or at least I wouldn't know04:32
c0ffeei meanwhile reached a point where i think it's pointless to continue to watch my maillog04:32
framerateSo all these apps need to be ported over from 770->800 correct?04:35
c0ffeesame happened at os2005->os200604:36
frameratemaemo mapper, doom, gaim, other apps I want :)04:36
framerateI guess I'll just keep checking back on the repos04:36
danielsc0ffee: it's 4:36am in finland.  the developer device people are probably asleep, even if it was going to happen today (not that any of us know) ...04:36
c0ffeei know i know :)04:36
c0ffeebut i can't sleep04:37
c0ffeeso i can watch as well the maillog04:37
c0ffeeit's more interesting than irc04:37
llenow that's a compliment04:37
frameratehmm has irssi been ported to 770 or 800?04:38
c0ffeeit has a higher lines/minute count04:38
c0ffeeand it mentions sex and stuff about 100 times more often :)04:38
c0ffeeto 770, yes04:38
framerateawesome.. hopefully that comes to 800 soon too.04:38
framerateI could probably install the dev kit and compile these myself, no?04:39
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frameratethat may not be a bad idea.. don't want to step on any toes though04:39
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c0ffeemaybe another attempt to sleep...04:49
c0ffeeat least 4h left04:49
frameratefor the developer devices?04:51
c0ffeeto get some sleep04:52
framerateoh ^^04:53
gpdframerate: wrt irssi - can you not ssh to something and irssi from there (for now)?04:54
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c0ffeethat's more reliable anyway btw :)04:54
c0ffeeirssi + screen <304:55
frameratehaha yeah I have screen + irssi running 24/7 ^^04:56
frameratejust wanted to play with my new toy!04:56
gpdframerate: what else have you installed so far?04:56
frameratejust term and ssh04:56
gpdi have been distracted with tedious things like eating04:56
frameratetried to install old versions of doom and gaim but no love, guess I have to wait for recompilation04:57
frameratehaha yeah, I'm getting my hair cut04:57
c0ffeegaim never really worked anyway :/04:57
frameratenever worked? what was the issues?04:57
gpdi need to import my vcards into the contact thingy - we'll see how that goes04:57
c0ffee2.5 billion ways to make it segfault04:57
framerateI tried but blackberry wouldn't transfer address book over bluetooth :(04:58
gpdif you find a way to do video chat from N800->Ubuntu Edgy let me know04:58
c0ffeedoesn't gchat work?04:59
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gpdc0ffee: you mean xchat-gnome?05:00
frameratemaybe he means google05:01
gpdfor Linux?05:01
c0ffeehaven't tried05:01
gpdnot available05:01
c0ffeeno 800 here yet :(05:01
gpdc0ffee: i am talking about on the desktop side05:01
gpdthe 800 video client works nicely - but I don't want to boot into windows to test it05:02
gpdthey say gaim or psi05:02
c0ffeethere's somewhere a working linux client05:03
c0ffeei pasted it once here05:03
gpdc0ffee: you sure it wasn't under wine?05:04
lleisn't gaim 2.0 supposed to have voice and maybe even video?05:05
c0ffeedoesn't at least here05:06
gpdlle: not vanilla - there is a gaim-vv - which i downloaded05:06
gpdbut not buit it yet05:06
framerateman I'm gonna go nuts waiting for 800 stuff to hit repos05:06
gpddo we think that the gizmoproject deb for 770 would work on 800?05:06
lleI'm just wondering why it's taking so long, considering that several commercial entities have successfully created voip and video clients.. and knowing how superior open source is...05:07
NickDea friend of mine just got the n800 as well..we are going to test the video conferencing capabilities05:07
NickDethis should be interesting05:07
gpdc0ffee: no video for that either?05:08
c0ffeemaybe the beta version?05:08
gpdroadmap says version 3 video and voice05:08
c0ffee2.0 supports gtalk voice05:09
c0ffeeforgot to move 1gig of mp3s out of my home05:14
c0ffeei was wondering all the time now what took the backup so long05:14
danielscrap, 5:14am05:14
danielslle: tbf, farsight has been around roughly forever, but it never got integrated due to gaim politics (gaim-vv is a fork that's been around for ages, and apparently the support got integrated in gaim2)05:15
danielslle: but, linux webcam support is crap, and im support for webcams in general is crap.05:15
c0ffeemost supported webcams expose a nice v4l2 interface05:16
c0ffeegnome-meeting uses sip meanwhile btw05:16
c0ffeeshouldn't be too difficult to make it use the jabber transport05:16
danielsmost supported webcams -> both of them05:17
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c0ffeei'd volunteer doing that if i get a developer device :)05:17
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pahartikc0ffee: Ekiga used to be known as GnomeMeeting05:18
c0ffeei'll start to memorize all the fancy new names ppl invent05:18
pahartikc0ffee: good plan :)05:19
gpdbah jabbin won't connect to gmail05:19
gpdand it looks like psi with modifications05:19
c0ffeeekiga, aka the artist formerly known as the sign, gnome-meeting05:19
c0ffeeit's a psi fork05:20
c0ffeeand did you install the 2.0 (beta)?05:20
c0ffeedid you follow the howto-gtalk?05:20
gpdand followed the setup instructions but no go05:21
framerateIs the 800 screen size identical size? And is there a good place to get screen protectors?05:21
c0ffeesucks to be you :)05:21
gpdAuthentication error: no appropriate mechanism available for given security settings -- maybe ssl should be off05:21
c0ffeemaybe not compiled against libssl?05:22
gpdno - it required that i installed libssl05:22
c0ffeebut now i really go to bed05:22
gpdcheers c0ffee05:23
gpdwell it looks like ekiga supports video - but it is SIP - so can i connect to that from N800 chat?05:25
danielsguh.  if i'm awake, i want music.  but i think cranking dubstep at 5:27am would get me thrown out of the apartment for good.05:27
daniels(had a radio show on loud enough to make random things in the bathroom vibrate until 3am.)05:27
gpddaniels: one word: Sennheiser05:28
danielsgpd: yeah, they're at work05:29
gpdcan i use a gizmo project account as a sip phone account for ekiga?05:31
gpdvcard v 2.0 cards importing into contacts :)05:39
gpdis it possible to get the mail client to subscribe to imap folders other than INBOX ?05:42
jtokashJust talked to canola guy (handful).  He says they have it working on the n800 and will release it when it's been better tested.05:44
gpdjtokash: imap folders?05:44
lleoh for fucks sake. isn't there really any way to figure out the path from a file descriptor?05:45
danielslle: why would there be?05:46
lledaniels: because I'd need that05:46
danielslle: then your design loses05:46
llethese new idiotic openat functions are a royal pain05:46
danielslle: what happens when you have hardlinks? bindmounts? chroots? what happens when the file's been moved -- original or new name? what happens when the file's been unlinked?05:46
lledaniels: all those things don't matter05:47
lleat least not that much and at least not right now05:47
llethe *at functions get a dirfd and the paths are then relative to that05:47
llenow with sb2 I'm trying to do the fancy ass path mappings05:48
danielslle: well, it's tough to say that they don't matter when four of the five questions will result in not getting a working path ;)05:48
gpdI seem to have a bunch of updates in my application manager - are these safe to upate? or are they replacements for core versions from meamo repository?05:48
llemaybe I need to think about this for a second05:48
lledaniels: I'm assuming that during a build most of the things you listed are not gonna be happening05:49
llemight be incorrect assumption, but I'd like to at least test it05:49
danielslle: sure, it's a nice simple case, but it's hard to define an api that has tons of gaping holes where things simply don't work as you'd expect05:50
daniels(otoh, that didn't stop xlib ...)05:50
danielslle: and, btw, since maemo dev is still so bloody i386-centric, i have an i386 chroot in my work machine, and /home is bind-mounted across. :)05:50
llethat's YOUR loss, not mine :D05:50
lleand anyway, I think this whole thing might actually not be a problem05:51
danielshey, scratchbox is your fault.05:51
lledaniels: I take full responsibility and shove to the nearest trash bin05:51
llesb2 is my apology to all sentient beings05:51
danielsyour idea of an apology is writing your own build system? ;)05:52
lleat least it's painful05:52
danielstrue, true05:52
lleregardless of that, I now just realized that the dirfd is acquired somehow, and THAT gets mapped05:53
lleand since the *at functions only use the dirfd in case of relative paths, I can just ignore it for absolute ones05:53
lleso I might get off lucky05:53
gpdno OPML import in rss reader?05:58
lledaniels: I've set a limit for myself, building sb2 must not take longer than 10 seconds. So even if it turns out to be another evil son of a bitch, it won't kill too many kittens each time somebody compiles it.06:02
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danielslle: eww.  why would you want to compile sb?06:03
* gpd OPML is supported if you double click from the file manager 06:04
danielslle: i get irritated every time i have to compile or otherwise fuck around with any part of my distribution that isn't x06:04
daniels(which includes the kernel.  i hack the kernel a bit at work, and really honestly can't be arsed coming home to bugger around with my own kernel just to get things to work.)06:04
lledaniels: you sort of have to if you're developing it06:04
llebut I'm not expecting any sympathy06:05
lledaniels: you actually might benefit from sbox2 already, I think it builds xorg just fine06:06
akkAre 770 user questions okay here? (I'm having trouble getting a wifi connection, no essid broadcast on the ap)06:07
frameratePretty sure those are find akk06:07
framerateI'm new here, but everyone seems pretty cool06:07
danielslle: yeah, only problem is that the easiest way is to build a deb06:07
danielslle: especially when I'm giving packages to other people06:08
akkThe AP doesn't show up in the connections list even though it's 3 feet from the 77006:08
lledaniels: true :(06:08
akkbut it didn't show up on my laptop either, 'til I ran iwconfig essid blah key nnnnnnnnnn06:08
shaprgpd: sofia-sip runs on the 77006:08
danielslle: i do all my development and git in my normal environment, and the only thing I ever type in scratchbox is 'r', which does a lightning rebuild (rm obj-arm-linux-gnueabi/hw/kdrive/omap/Xomap && make -C obj-arm-linux-gnueabi && fakeroot debian/rules binary), so it's not too bad ;)06:08
frameratehmm I have opposite problem, my N800 picks up more points than I ever knew existed heh06:08
akkframerate: Yeah, it picks up several I didn't know about, but they're all keyed so I can't steal their connections. :-)06:09
akkframerate: But I can't connect if I can't somehow specify an essid, and I don't see a way to do that.06:09
frameratewell, WEP encryption is a joke, from an algorithm's standpoint... so I guess you COULD use them ^^06:09
framerateyou want to enter the ESSID without scanning?06:09
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nokdoes osso-xterm work now?06:10
framerateon N800? yes06:10
akkframerate: right, because it doesn't seem to see the AP when scanning (at least, doesn't list it)06:10
framerateI'm using 2007 (N800) but it looks like I can specify a ESSID in my control panel -> connectivity -> new06:11
frameratewell, an SSID06:11
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gpdframerate: have you braved the updates in application manager?06:12
framerateupdates where?06:12
nokwhere do you install it from xterm?, distribution: mistral?06:12
nokwhere doy ou install xterm from, i mean...06:12
akkframerate: Cool, I'll try there. I have a freshly flashed 2006.06:12
shaprframerate: Speaking of which, I want to port "The Last Nail in WEP's coffin" to maemo so I can read my email anywhere.06:12
framerateI haven't looked into algorithms for WEP :( But I know it's not too impressive...06:13
framerateI want to look at it (and related apps) soon06:13
shaprYou can crack WEP in about 15 minutes from the average laptop.06:13
akkAssuming a lot of traffic. Ours doesn't have much. But I know it's not very secure.06:14
framerategpd: which updates are you referring to?06:14
shaprakk: One packet06:14
shaprakk: That's all it needs.06:14
gpdframerate: in the application manager - go to main, check for updates, then it should give a bunch of new stuff06:14
gpdeg. alarmd 0.4.206:14
shaprakk: One packet, fifteen minutes -
framerateyeah I see that gpd, but I'm not sure those are upated to already installed apps, are they?06:15
akkshapr: Yow, that's worse than I'd read.06:15
gpdalarmd is installed at version 0.4.006:15
shaprWEP is dead.06:15
shaprBut still the most popular encryption!06:15
framerateoh wow, so I have all that installed by default?06:16
gpdshapr: thanks for sofia-sip link - do you think that will install on N800?06:16
akkframerate: Hmm, it let me set up a connection, and then connected, but with a link-local address. :-(06:17
gpdakk: that happened to me -- but i had typed my wep key poorly06:18
framerategpd: these updates scare me hah06:18
gpdframerate: me too -- i disabled the maemo repository and am checking again06:18
gpdif they are official then i am happy06:18
framerateI just want GPS and DOOM :(06:18
gpdbah -- i have a garmin etrex color so i am not bothered06:19
frameratei have an external bluetooth GPS06:19
framerateone of th deal breakers for me to get a nokia06:19
framerateso I don't have to get out my laptop on the road06:19
gpdthe external gps has no screen?06:19
akkframerate: Okay, I'll try retyping it ... nope, same problem.06:19
gpdor you want 'added funk'?06:19
framerateno, it's just a bluetooth reciever ^^06:20
akkMaybe we're not serving dhcp (the laptops use static ip)06:20
framerateakk - that could be.. check router settings06:20
gpdframerate: when disabling the maemo those updates go away -- so i am not touching them!06:20
frameratehah good call06:21
akkframerate: I don't suppose there's a way to specify an address? I didn't see that in that control panel.06:21
shaprgpd: No clue06:21
framerateakk: not that I'd seen yet06:22
gpdakk: iirc you can set static ip in the connection window06:22
gpdframerate: so i changed the password for 'user' and can ssh and scp into now.  weirdly all files seem to need to go into MyDocs not ~06:22
akkgpd: Where in the connection window?06:23
frameratechanged password for user? I haven't tried sshing yet06:23
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akkgpd: The one when it's trying to connect?06:23
kakosDoes anyone know if there is any hope of some version of 2007 coming to the 770?06:23
akkOh, there's an Advanced button.06:24
gpdakk: yes - just found it too06:25
kakosOh, and does anyone know if the N800's USB port is powered or do we still need our injectors?06:25
gpdkakos: that was mentioned earlier -06:25
framerateoh wow.. just ssh'd into one of my boxes... and went full screen06:25
framerategonna get a bluetooth keyboard and this terminal will rock my world06:25
gpdkakos: no power from usb -- it seems there is not enough amps from usb06:25
kakosOkay.  Thanks.  :)06:26
akkYay! That did it -- thanks, framerate and gpd06:27
gpdthis scratchbox and sdk stuff - is there a graphical emulator of the device? like POSE?06:28
* gpd is looking forward to python availability06:29
frameratepython is fun ^^06:29
danielsgpd: you could make a skin for xoo if you were keen06:29
Aleksandyr_mmmm, python.06:29
* gpd reads about xoo06:30
* daniels sleeps.06:30
framerategpd: any idea the real release date for this thing?06:32
bmidgleythis week06:32
gpdwhat he said06:33
bmidgleycompusa jumped the gun so we'd have something to talk about sooner06:33
framerateit was a real bitch to get it form my compusa06:34
framerateand I got a speeding ticket on the way there!06:34
gpdhah - i slid down to mine quite speedily after reading the story on digg06:34
gpdphoned their support line and they said they had 806:34
framerateI had to argue with the manager. I was like "trust me, you have it"06:34
gpdof course the staff had *no clue*06:34
gpdframerate: me too :)06:35
framerateShe looked it up all rude, and then apologized06:35
frameratebut couldn't find it06:35
gpdhe 'had a look out the back'06:35
frameratethey had in a "do not sell" room... but I made her look it up and she saw other stores sold it already06:35
gpdi thought - here we go... no chance of them getting it06:35
framerateha and I had an hour and half drive.. no way I was going home empty handed06:35
gpddidn't even open the box -- just grabbed and ran before they changed their mind06:35
gpdone of the benefits of living in West Los Angeles I suppose06:36
gpd8 minutes down the 40506:36
framerateha. I'm in Bloomington Indiana.. had to drive to Indianapolis06:36
frameratesomeone wake up the doom developer... call him on the phone. I need my fix!06:36
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gpdhow much of wikipedia do you think you could get on this thing?06:38
gpdthere is an offline version iirc06:38
frameratewhat do you mean? download?06:38
gpdi imagine it is /rather huge/06:38
gpdi mean for when not within wifi range06:39
gpdhitch hikers guide style06:39
gpdlarge friendly letters... etc06:39
framerateI wouldn't dare try without one of those 4+ GB SD cards heh06:40
gpdwell -- just the text probably wouldn't be too bad06:40
gpd'web pack' downloads 6GB -- 3.8 million articles06:40
gpdignore that last one -0- it is pocket pc... pos06:42
frameratethe N800 needs more "fun" apps06:42
framerateI can't find anything to play with yet other than ssh and xterm :(06:43
framerateBut I know I'm jumping the gun heh06:43
bmidgleywhat apps use the camera out of the box?06:43
gpdseemingly just the chat program06:43
frameratejust chat I think06:43
framerateand my camera really sucks in quality06:43
frameratemay be defective I dont know06:43
gpdstill haven't found a desktop linux client so ignoring that06:43
frameratein slightly low lights I get ALL KINDS of artifacts on my camera06:44
bmidgleyso it's google/jabber for video chat?06:44
gpdbmidgley: yes06:44
ntrshow do i su to root?06:45
gpdyou can ssh root@yourip06:45
bmidgleysudo gainroot06:45
bmidgleyhas to be in dev mode iirc06:45
framerateanyone know how to manually edit cell phone dial up via terminal?06:45
ntrshow do I go in dev mode?06:45
frameratethe  # I need to dial is "wap.cingular" but it disables alpha input by default06:46
bmidgleyhmm it's been a while :(06:46
ntrsalso, will changing the user and root password break anything?06:46
gpdntrs: seemingly not06:46
ntrsgpd, thanks06:47
ntrsI want to put bash in /usr/bin06:47
ntrsbut it does not let me06:47
jtokashwhat's the best way to convert a dvd for the 770/n800?06:47
jtokashCan MediaConverter do it?06:48
bmidgleyvideo conversion is a bit of a black art06:48
gpdjtokash: Jaffa was using vidconvert - whatever that is06:48
bmidgleyit's been mostly figured out for the 770 but might differ for n80006:48
Aleksandyr_what library contains 'hildon_file_chooser_dialog_new'?06:48
llehmm, sweet. wmaker decided to stop focusing on any window.06:49
framerategpd: any luck finding VPN stuff for the 800 yet?06:49
framerateI need that for the wifi @ work06:49
gpdframerate: no - not looked06:49
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gpd <-- xml06:50
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bmidgleyis there much new stuff in menus for bluetooth?06:51
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gpdheadphone socket on n800 is weird - regular headphones don't fit :(06:56
gpdmono only -- clearly needed for microphone - but normally smaller06:57
gpdcrap that is really annoying 'cos the regular headphone fall out of my ears06:58
myrenwhat!?  no regular headphone jack?07:00
myrenmega suxor.07:00
framerateare you sure gpd? looks normal, but no headphones here to check07:00
gpdwell mine fits in - but only mono - left ear07:00
frameratedoesn't seem right07:01
framerateI swear it said "stereo headphone jack" on the box07:01
gpdyes - but the headset that comes with it has three07:01
gpdand not mono -- just left ear only07:01
myreni wonder if nokia just pooched something07:02
Aleksandyr_gaaah, -lhildonfm instead of -lhildon-fm07:02
jtokashframerate, push harder07:02
gpdhold the phone07:02
gpdnot pushing in hard enough!07:02
framerateoh boy07:03
jtokashI was surprised by how hard you have to push, but it seems to work07:03
gpdya -- tis all good now07:03
gpdneed to grab a shoutcast list from somewhere07:03
gpdwhy it can't look that up for you ...07:04
gpdhmm.. add media stream to library... one at a time?07:04
gpdmaybe OPML to the rescue07:05
gpdwe need to bully webaroo into supporting us07:06
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bmidgleyis the headphone jack a 2.5mm not 3.5mm?07:07
ntrshow can i change the default shell for xterm?07:08
bmidgley2.5mm would allow for stereo plus mic if it's 4-conductor07:08
* pahartik ponders about way to switch to mobile GPRS uplink over Bluetooth DUN automatically whenever wired ethernet uplink over Bluetooth PAN is out of range07:10
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* framerate wishes anything worked on the N800 o.O07:11
gpdntrs: isn't it just in /etc/passwd ?07:11
ntrsbut I can't modify that file, right? permissions?07:11
gpdntrs: if you install ssh - you can ssh in as root without needing dev mode07:13
pahartikntrs: "chsh"?07:13
ntrswhat is the root password?07:13
gpdwoot! my first crash!07:14
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gpdntrs: are you on N800? I don't see bash in the repos?07:16
frameratehow did you crash?07:16
ntrspahartik, I tried chsh but it says that /home/user/bash is an invalid shell07:16
ntrsgpd, yes n800, bash for n770 works fine07:17
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gpdntrs: are you downloading the debs directly?07:17
gpdframerate: crashed after failing to play a shoutcast stream07:17
ntrsgpd, some of them directly, some of them from repos07:18
akkWhen the package manager is unable to refresh, is there any way to see which repository is giving the problem?07:18
gpdyou are braver than me!07:18
gpdakk i suppose you can disable each in turn07:18
akkgpd: I was hoping there was another way ... that takes forever because it won't let me scroll the list or remember my place in it.07:19
gpdakk: how many repositories do you have loaded?07:20
gpdi have just the main maemo one and the two nokia ones07:20
akkgpd: I've been going through the package catalog adding repositories for things that look interesting07:20
akkgpd: because it says that's the best way to install stuff07:21
pahartikntrs: as usual, allowed shells are listed on "/etc/shells"07:23
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gpdshoutcast streams appear as IP addresses in the media player - not ideal - am I missing something?07:23
ntrspahartik, yes but I need root to change that file.07:24
akkgpd: Is there some one or two repositories I can add if I want to get (a) a terminal, (b) a shell and (c) a text editor? Those all seem to come from different places.07:25
akkblah, "unable to install osso-xterm". Let's hear it for clear error messages.07:28
pahartikntrs: to get superuser privileges, I took "red pill" and installed OpenSSH07:28
ntrsgot it07:28
Takakk: look at the log07:29
ntrsred pill seems to work on the n800 too07:29
Tak(to tell which repo is making it fail)07:29
akkTak: Where's the log?07:29
tigertsince the device doenst officially exist, please give a few days for the app writers to update their software :)07:29
Takmenu->tools->log07:30 says "Maemo 3.0 supports application development for the latest Nokia N800 Internet Tablet."07:30
Takwill there ever be an os2007 (or later) release for 770 now?07:30
tigertand I think some apps need a recompile with Bora (3.0) rootstrap to get dependencies right07:30
akkTak: Oh, thanks! That should help on the repositories though not on xterm (that's just "dpkg returned an error code")07:31
tigertbut time to take the dogs out and to get to work07:32
gpdntrs: i got osso-xterm to install fine from the with bora distro and non-free and free07:33
akkand now both versions of osso-xterm have disappeared from the package list07:33
gpdi also took the red-pill07:33
ntrsI already have xterm07:33
akkI have both and in the list07:33
tigertakk: n800?07:34
tigertor 770?07:34
akktigert: 77007:34
tigertakk: you need to add the garage repo as well I think07:35
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tigertsince osso-xterm from maemo-hackers depends on something from there07:35
tigertlemmme check07:35
ntrswas anyone able toinstall openssh on n800?07:35
gpdntrs: yes - again from the main repos07:35
ntrswhat main repos?07:36
akktigert: Where's that repository? I don't see a repo address on the app catalog page or on garage.maemo.org07:36
tigertakk: looking it for you07:36
tigertI think that one yeah07:37
tigert    *07:38
tigert      Web address07:38
tigert      [WWW]
tigert      Distribution07:38
tigert      mistral07:38
tigert      Components07:38
tigert      free non-free07:38
gpdyou want bora07:38
tigerteek sorry07:38
tigertanyway, try adding that also in addition to the maemo-hackers one07:38
ntrsgpd, bora free?07:38
tigertfor 770 you dont want bora07:38
tigertno wait07:38
tigertI am confused07:38
gpdI am N80007:38
akktigert: I have that but I didn't have non-free07:38
tigertyes but I am helping akk07:39
tigertakk: yea, try if that helps07:39
gpdi thought akk was N800 too?07:39
tigert07:34 <             akk> tigert: 77007:39
akkNo, I'm 77007:39
gpdoh - sorry07:39
gpdi'll stfu then :D07:39
tigertalso, while stuff might work on N800, it might also break, give folks a chance to rebuild stuff with bora07:40
tigertor do it yourself from source debs07:40
akktigert: Nope, still no osso-xterm in the package list, just osso-statusbar-cpu07:40
tigertanyway, good luck and see you in a few hours07:40
gpdmost of the bora stuff is missing - so i assume that the ones that are there are ok07:40
tigertakk: see if it is "xterm"07:40
tigertakk: I think the name might be different07:41
akkNo, just xchat and xev07:41
tigertdid you refresh?07:41
gpdakk: look for osso-xterm ?07:41
akkgpd: The only osso* in Main->Install new applications->All is osso-statusbar-cpu07:41
tigertakk: if you see inz, he is the maintainer of that07:41
tigertask him when he wakes up07:42
gpdi presume this is the main # for tableteers? or are we interrupting important dev talk?07:43
tigertakk: try adding the garage extras/ also07:44
tigertfree non-free07:44
frameratei wish this stuff all worked on the 800 heh07:44
frameratesoon soon  :)07:44
ntrsgpd, were you referring to ssh 1:3.8p1-3osso7?07:44
gpdthat looks like the one i have07:45
akktigert: Trying that ...07:46
ntrshmm, how do you uninstall apps?07:46
gpdntrs: go to application manager - installed apps -- click -- uninstall07:47
pahartikntrs: "dpkg --purge", with superuser privileges07:47
akktigert: That got lots more stuff! But unfortunately no new osso* or xterm*07:47
tigertakk: hmm07:48
tigerttrying here too07:48
tigertin any case, inz is your best help here07:48
tigertlemme try uninstalling and installing once07:48
akktigert: Okay, maybe I'll try again in the morning.07:48
tigertyes, its on the list07:49
tigertlet me see what repos I have07:49
akkMaybe mine is confused somehow by all the disabled repositories somehow.07:49
akkI wish I could just cat /etc/apt/sources.list or something07:50
tigertI have two tableteer repos , certified and non-certified for mistral, those shouldnt have it07:50
tigert mistral free non-free07:51
tigert mistral main07:51
tigert mistral free non-free07:51
tigertis what I have07:52
akkNow I can't re-check, I foolishly decided to try installing something and it's stuck.07:52
akkstalled with no cancel button07:52
tigertanyway, those I have and I just installed osso-xterm07:52
tigertakk: yea, it will timeout if stuff hangs07:52
tigertakk: you cannot cancel apt sometimes either07:52
tigertand you dont want to cancel it midway anyway07:52
akktigert: ctrl-C usually works if it's still downloading.07:53
tigertanyways, good luck, ttyl07:53
akkthere, it un-stalled, whew07:53
akkthanks, tigert07:53
ntrswhat is the user password?07:53
gpdi set my user password from root07:54
gpdit would have been nice to be able to set the account name to gpd - but 'user' will do07:54
akkMy repository list is the same as tigert's except I have one more, the one that FBreader came from,
gpdon the front page -- home -- why does it say 'no contacts' - i have contacts?07:55
akkOh, well, I'll try again tomorrow.07:55
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frameratenight guys07:56
frameratesee you tomorrow I'm sure07:57
frameratenice to meet you all07:57
gpdcheers framerate07:57
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gpdin answer to my previous question about contacts on the home page -- go to home menu - applet settings -- set speed contacts08:09
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gpdc0ffee: that was your night's sleep?08:15
c0ffeemore or less :/08:15
c0ffeenothing happened08:16
c0ffeenot even new mail08:16
Rotundokay.  is there going to be a maemo 3.0 for the 770?  Or is it going to remain N800 only?08:16
c0ffeethat's a faq iirc08:17
gpdman i'm loving this thing08:19
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Rotundso, is there an known answer?08:19
TakI'd like to know as well08:20
gpdis there a bot on this channel for faqs?08:20
Takparticularly because my chances of getting an N800 in the near future are looking slim, unless via DDP08:20
gpdjust as I said that -- crash number 2 :(08:20
Rotundbecause if not, I'm fairly pissed08:21
c0ffeewith faq i meant the 'faq'08:21
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c0ffeein earleri questions OS 2007 is related to maemo 3.0 whereas os 2006 is related to maemo 2.x08:22
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Rotundso, basically every 2 years I'll need to spend $400 for a new piece of hardware?  WOW!08:23
c0ffeewelcome to the real world08:23
c0ffeesorry :)08:24
c0ffeejust got up08:24
RotundI'm particularly pissed cuz I JUST got mine in early December.08:24
c0ffeetry to return it then08:25
RotundWell, I suppose it's time to start making "unofficial" versions for the 770.08:25
Rotundc0ffee, I got it on eBay.08:25
c0ffeethat's what opensource is about08:25
c0ffeei guess there will be a backport-like kind of thing08:26
RotundI understand that, but at the same time... open-source has typically supported older hardware longer than that.08:26
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thoughtfixLive from Vegas!08:26
RotundHell, has a version of Mono for OS2006 been released officially yet?08:27
c0ffeeit's just that the binaries won't be supported08:27
gpdis there an rss feed of new packages for the main repositories?08:27 has an rss feed08:28
Rotundnope.  Looks like it's still just OS2005.08:28
gpdc0ffee: <-- not quite what i am after - but nice addition08:33
roope  sorry, it's in finnishi.08:36
tigerthi thoughtfix08:37
tigertlive from rainy traffic jam08:37
gpdnokia something something skype something las vegas08:37
gpdsomething something skype N800 :D08:38
gpdgizmoproject obviously scaring them08:38
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RotundI like gizmoproject08:42
gpdme too -- and the skype linux client blows goats08:43
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RotundAnyone get mp3tunes to work on their 770?  it just crashes on mine08:44
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thoughtfixgot distracted08:50
thoughtfixhi again08:50
c0ffeethoughtfix, try to press information about the developer program from somebody!08:51
thoughtfixc0ffee: I have the Nokia reception tomorrow and an interview (possibly with Dr. Jaaksi) Tues morning08:51
c0ffeestill not monday over there?08:52
RotundI hope they offer an upgrade program to current owners of the 770 personally.08:53
thoughtfix10:52 PM08:53
thoughtfixOn US Pacific trime08:53
thoughtfixRotund: Everyone does. It's called eBay ;)08:53
Rotundyou notice the prices dropped by over $100 in the last couple days?08:54
jtokashhmmm... mine is called "product replacement plan from compusa after 770s are no longer available"08:54
thoughtfix good investment08:54
thoughtfixMine ran out weeks ago :(08:54
jtokashI knew about the new version (from you) at time of 770 purchase08:54
jtokashso I had an incentive to get it.08:54
RotundI just want the new contacts program from the N80008:56
RotundI want to be able to enter phone numbers!08:56
gpdcontacts program on n800 seems nice - it imported my vcards very well08:56
RotundHow much code is missing from the 3.0 SDK?08:56
gpdalthough it seems to ignore physical addresses - eg. home and work mailing08:56
Rotundor some version of herring?08:57
thoughtfixjtokash: I am not going to encourage you to rm -rf / as root08:57
thoughtfixBut "no physical damage" + "stopped working" ....08:58
jtokashyeah, I hear ya!!08:58
inzAnyone tried bora rootstraps yet?08:58
thoughtfixMy grandfather looked at me with a Bluetooth EV-DO connection, bluetooth keyboard anbd mouse, and ultra-mobile pc08:59
thoughtfixHe is cancelling his WebTV since only Grandma used it and he never figured it out08:59
jtokashwebtv, that takes me back!09:00
jtokashAt work, we got one when they first came out for browser compat testing09:01
thoughtfixOkay if I want to be sane tomorrow09:03
thoughtfixI must sleep NOW09:03
* thoughtfix waves09:03
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gpdwow - the capitalization in handwriting recognition is really annoying09:11
gpdespecially when coming from palm graphiti09:11
gpdhow would i download podcast mp3s for offline use - i have feeds in the rss reader and can stream fine09:18
c0ffeegraphiti isn't handwriting recognition09:21
c0ffeeit's more the other way round09:21
c0ffeeadopting the handwriting to the machine09:22
gpdi don't suppose there is a way to use graffiti instead though09:22
gpdor is it patented or something?09:22
c0ffeei'd bet09:23
gpdin answer to my other question - the rss reader has a 'keep for later' button for podcasts :)09:23
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roopegraffiti is from Palm.09:24
roopeor is it Access now,09:24
gpdstill -- not sure what access is09:25
suihkulokkiit doesn't change the fact that current handwriting recognition sucks09:25
gpdi think it is trying to be too clever doing the upper and lower case09:26
gpda simple shift like graffiti is simple enough.09:26
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gpdhmm... not so sure about this 'keep for later' button - might just be the text :(09:29
keesjCongrats with Bora and N800. I am very very happy to see continuation in the Maemo series09:29
dottedmag|deyeah. good. and whose who hapy whith 770 are out of luck.09:30
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keesjdottedmag|de, why?09:30
desrtkeesj; no more support, supposedly.09:30
dottedmag|dekeesj: just because bora is not compatible with 77009:30
dottedmag|deAnd community can't support 770 because of closed components.09:31
c0ffeethere isn't too much closed09:31
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keesjIt is not because there is a new car is the shop that my cars starts to stink09:31
dottedmag|deenough to prevent porting bora to 77009:31
keesjI agree that that community driven 770 is difficult09:32
dottedmag|deDamn. I still have PC from 1998 which runs debian etch fine.09:32
desrtqgil; you've a revolt on your hands :)09:32
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keesjc0ffee, there isn't too much closed, what you say?09:32
qgildesrt: which one?09:32
desrtqgil; the geeks have the bora bora blackbox blues09:33
c0ffeethe wlan driver09:33
c0ffeehow to operate the DSPs09:33
c0ffeethe bt driver09:33
c0ffeewhat else?09:33
c0ffeeuserspace stuff is replacable09:33
c0ffeei don't need opera to be happy09:33
qgilah, that one09:33
dottedmag|dehmm.. userspace stuff needs to be reverse engineered to be replaced, as there is no docs :-/09:34
keesjI wonder why I haven't seen ports of gentoo freebsd to the 77009:34
keesjgentoo or freebsd09:34
c0ffeedottedmag|de, there are enough free replacements09:34
desrtfreebsd doesn't run on arm, afaik09:34
desrtand nobody wants to use the 770 to self-compile their OS09:35
desrtso that's why :)09:35
keesjso people are not happy with the "distro" but are to lazy09:36
dottedmag|deokay, with this policy I've just lost one possible maemo developer.09:37
qgilplease make sure the interesting stuff you discuss ends up documented somewhere out of this chat room - nobody will regret this extra effort09:37
keesjand I care more about the maemo "movement" then the devices. I can only hope nokia will provide a build environment for the different releases09:37
desrtkeesj; keeping development version of the libraries with full symbol information and header files around in addition to a full toolchain just wouldn't fly on the 77009:37
c0ffeethat's why there is scratchbox09:39
keesjdesrt, me as simple software developer can not maintain the SDK's for the different releases . I don't understand that that has to do with the kernel09:39
desrtyou really do want compilation on a separate machine from where you're running it.  it's not just laziness... it's a real problem09:39
desrtkeesj; i get the feeling that we're having two separate conversations09:40
dottedmag|dedesrt: +109:40
desrtdottedmag|de; thanks, i think :p09:40
keesjif it must be fun / easy to create programs for the 770 and 800 there must be binary compatibility or a build system that works around the problem (IMHO).09:41
keesjdesrt, yes perhaps09:41
c0ffeekeesj, see scratchbox09:42
keesjI have been running scratchbox for a while now. I guess you don't understand my problem09:43
dottedmag|dekeesj: you're connecting device with OS. I just argued whether this should be. No one switches to the different device just to run xp instead of 2000. Unless old device is too slow, which is not the case here.09:43
keesjno, the disc started about bora and porting to the 77009:44
dottedmag|deAh, I should be more clear.09:44
keesjI do not want to make to much noise. forget about it09:45
dottedmag|deSo, are 770 owners are stuck with OS2006 forever?09:45
dottedmag|define. goodbye, will never return.09:46
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* c0ffee waves good-bye to dottedmag09:46
* qgil wants to land in Ruoholahti asap to start working really on all this09:47
c0ffeeare you on a plane?09:48
qgilit will take exactly one week  :)09:48
inzThat's one slow plane09:49
* c0ffee shower09:49
keesjI also wonder how many users upgraded fro 2005 to 200609:50
* qgil breakfast09:50
JaffaMorning, all09:51
konttorimorning jaffa!09:56
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alumpwhy bora installer won't download sbox anymore :(09:56
inzIt seems to be broken in many other ways too09:57
inzThe roostrap (at least had yesterday) has broken dependencies09:57
inzAnd they cannot be satisfied using the bora repo09:57
inzI had to add scirocco to get them fulfilled (i.e. to be able to run apt-get -f install)09:57
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keesjand the fpu will make  xmoto run faster09:59
inzxterm didn't start running even when I compiled it with the bora rootstrap...10:00
inzI wonder...10:00
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daniels~/sb e10:02
c0ffeewhat about the included osso-xterm?10:03
inzc0ffee, the included osso-xterm?10:04
c0ffeei thought there was one in bora already10:04
c0ffeesomebody talked about that10:04
c0ffeedo you have red-pill enabled to see all packages?10:04
inzc0ffee, yeah, that'll probably work, but it uses an ugly font ;)10:06
c0ffeenow that sucks10:06
tigertand it has BAD issues with thumb kbd10:07
tigertsince browser hijacks the edit buffer somehow, and only inz's term deals with it10:08
tigertso every time you open the thumb kbd, it is prefilled with the last url you edited10:08
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c0ffeewell then10:11
c0ffeetime to appear at work10:11
* c0ffee &10:11
jtokashAny other questions for Nokia?
jtokashA nokia rep answered some questions in an earlier post, so I'm hoping it happens again.10:12
alumpthis sdk installation won't work like in the movies, in which sbox package the sb-conf should have come10:13
tigertplease, if there are issues with sdk etc, make sure you voice the on the devel list also so they wont fall through10:15
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jtokashfyi, I just passed a magnet over every nook and cranny on the n80010:21
jtokashit doesn't seem to have a magnetic standby switch like the 770 does10:22
inzHmm, my osso-xterm seems to start up with the vte from repo.m.o bora10:22
keesjjtokash, how does it fit in the pocket?10:23
jtokashthe felt thing?10:23
jtokashnot bad10:23
jtokashIt's not snug10:23
jtokashbut it's not too flappy10:23
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alumpdoes anyone like the hw buttons of n800? i think 770's buttons where 100x better. Or do I just have too big fingers.10:24
jtokashI hate that the fullscreen button is between the zoom keys10:24
jtokashother than that I don't have any complaints10:24
roopeYeah, they suck. :)10:25
tigertthey suck royally10:25
alumphow desinged them, and why god why? ;)10:26
tigerti always need to look to press the correct one10:26
tigerta perfect industrial designer without fault i guess10:27
roopeindustrial design is a compromise between ergonomics and design.10:27
tigerthah, i outtype you with the thumb keyboard ;)10:27
alumpthose buttons don't even look good10:30
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roopeif you look at the n73, it's kind of similar style.10:37
VReSometimes I feel that the industrial desing wins - sometimes I really wonder if the device designed goes thru any review10:37
c0ffeethank bob you're still alive :)10:37
Tonic0ffee: ehlo10:38
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c0ffee501 5.0.0 ehlo requires domain address10:38
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c0ffeei made the channel -t yesterday btw :)10:39
Tonioh, didn't notice :D10:40
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Guardianwill bora be backported to 770?10:48
Guardian(oh and morning all)10:48
konttoriAny chance that N801 could have one extra button at the 'top' buttons row to the far right. So that there could be sort of shoulder buttons for games / any other rocker operation.10:49
tigertN801? :)10:49
konttoriLike any future product10:50
disqn820 :P10:50
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tigertNMaster 80000010:50
desrtwow.  it's actually announced10:50
desrtfear :)10:50
konttoriNmaster overlord 80000010:50
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desrt$400 namerican.  steep.10:50
timelessunfortunately nokia hardware doesn't take input/feedback from anyone useful10:51
timelesssurprisingly some people seem to like some of the hardware changes for the n80010:51
konttoriIs the new pen better? It looks like it could be better as its fatter.10:52
tigerttimeless: dude10:52
timelessdepends on who you are10:52
timelessthe best selling point about the new pen is that it's discoverable10:52
timelessno more watching people rotate the 770 around searching for the pen they know must exist10:53
timelessand giving up10:53
JaffaThe official press release from Nokia is out too:
tigertthe N800 is nicer as it is a lot snappier and faster, plus the screen is brighter I think10:53
Guardiantoo bad it was not out for christmas :(10:55
konttoriWow. skype support. The coolest eva!10:55
timelessoh wow, the n800 is a next generation wide screen?10:55
* timeless didn't know that10:55
timelessthat's just an announcement10:55
konttoriis the screen 24 bit?10:55
tigerthey, its press release10:55
timelessconsider it vaporware until it ships :)10:55
JaffaI like the way it "introduces" a full screen finger QWERTY keyboard.10:55
tigertJaffa: :)10:56
timelessjaffa: it does to the nseries10:56
timelessthe 770 wasn't nseries10:56
* bergie wonders whether Skype will be integrated with the Google Talk UI in Maemo or a separate app10:56
timelessbergie: you're not alone :)10:56
Jaffatimeless: It doesn't imply, from my reading, that it's talking about introducing to the N series, it's talking about compared with its predecessor (e.g. webcam etc.)10:56
* timeless sighs10:56
timelesswho are these people and why don't they hire Americans to write their press releases?10:57
tigertJaffa: and it is marketing press release, don't expect logic, facts or sense10:57
JaffaBut anyway, marketing depts aren't renowned for their... snap.10:57
* timeless is sick of Nokia paying a non native speaker to write an English press release10:57
timelessnokia should just only release things to the press in English :)10:57
tigertbritish is the true english anyway10:57
timelesstigert: this wasn't written in Queeen's English10:58
sp3000the 770 wasn't released with a fkb, so it's consistent with that :)10:58
timelessWith stereo audio, media support and new ergonomic design the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet is a portable Internet entertainment device; you will enjoy streamed or downloaded content free away from fixed location.10:58
timelessit's missing articles: " [a] new ergonomic design"10:58
timelessthe sentence(*COUGH*) runs longer than normal marketing jargon10:59
timelessand "free away from fixed location" is at least missing an article10:59
timelessor something10:59
timeless[any] fixed location?10:59
* timeless sighs10:59
JaffaThat's missing from that phrase ;-)10:59
X-Fadetigert: Did someone fix the test.maemo IE rendering problems yet? Or should I have a look at it?10:59
timelessoh no11:00
timelessyou're right, it says: Building on the the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, the Nokia N800 introduces full screen finger qwerty keyboard11:01
* konttori wonders if anyone could care to state whether N800 runs 24 bit or 16 bit color11:01
bergieX-Fade: I think Joonas did some IE work on friday, but I can check when he comes online11:02
jonekgood morning!11:02
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X-Fadebergie: Ok, because atm it still looks weird ;)11:02
X-FadeBut I'm not sure if ferenc updated to the latest version.11:02
konttori16 bit / 24 bit display?11:05
alumpbtw, does this n800's videotalk between two passive net connections?11:05
sxpert-workalump: I think the default handler is google talk11:06
Jaffaalump: "passive"?11:06
alumppassive as in p2p-world, both behind nat (or no open ports)...11:06
konttoriAt least if they get skype running on it, then it'll work11:07
alumpso does video move via server or p2p-network (ala skype)11:07
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*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you |"11:19
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X-Fadebergie: still there?11:26
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X-Fadebergie: there is a problem with the application search block html. The <select> tag has a / at the end. Which must not be there.11:27
X-FadeAs is has a few options too ;)11:27
tigertqgil: you forgot | And My Topic Is Longer Than Yours!11:28
bergieX-Fade: aha... Ferenc made the form, I'll bug him when he's online11:28
bergiemight not be too soon, though, as he was still online around 3am11:28
X-Fadebergie: I'll try to find it in svn :)11:28
qgiltigert: the topic is as stuffed as the mood of the channel, I guess11:29
qgilwill be shorter when the waters etc11:29
keesjwhat is that skype buzz? can we search the irclog?11:29
qgilkeesj: "but don't tell anyone"  ;)11:30
X-Fadebergie: Found it in svn. Will commit a fix ;)11:30
bergieX-Fade: thx11:31
bergieof course Ferenc must then update the style11:31
X-FadeNo, the application catalog php code..11:31
inzkeesj, there's mentions of skype in the official press release11:32
X-Fadebergie: committed r160 to fix this..11:34
dwdinz: There is? Oh, dear.11:35
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bergieX-Fade: the app catalog PHP code in SVN gets imported into Midgard style DB, and then replicated to the external server11:38
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bergieit is just a PHP file for ease of version control (outside Midgard's own rcs storage)11:39
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X-Fadebergie: Ok, well I guess that it needs to be imported then :)11:39
bergieyep... needs to be done by somebody with access to the internal server11:40
dwdDoes anyone happen to know if, from the 770, it's possible to find out whether the GPRS connection has signal?11:41
jonekcan't await maemo 2.2 *tip tip tip*11:41
* vidar is unimpressed with
timelessyou're not impressed rthat nokia managed a site that didn't use flash?11:48
* timeless is11:48
sxpert-workvidar: yeah, I would have expected an integrated GPS11:48
sxpert-worktimeless: apparently, it wants flash 811:49
* timeless rotfdl11:49
vidarsxpert-work: my impresslessness (!) comes from not being able to view it without a newer flash plugin.11:49
timelessyou're kidding, right?11:49
* dwd doesn't have Flash.11:49
sxpert-workwhich ain't going to happen, considering this is a 64 bit box11:49
timelessoh god11:49
dwdSame for me.11:49
alumpok, this 3.0 sdk just doesn't like me11:49
timelesssorry, i use noscript11:49
timelessso i saw a very pretty page that didn't use flash11:49
sxpert-worktimeless: ah. right11:49
timelessgiven that the n800 doesn't ship w/ flash8 (it has 7)11:49
sxpert-workdisabling js gave the page.11:50
qgildwd you don't need just Flash but also a quite recent Flash player11:50
sxpert-worksaid script is b0rk11:50
vidarif flash is enabled you only get a message about getting a newer version11:50
vidarunavailable for linux, of course11:50
dwdqgil: Jolly good. I'll skip it then.11:50
* timeless forbids and returns to a happy page11:50
timelessok, you're right, they're clever11:50
timelessbut might i suggest you install noscript and join the happy masses?11:50
vidaryou might. ;)11:51
timelesseven the new york times suggests you get noscript11:51
jonekis the entry 4.12 new to the maemo FAQ?
qgilAt some extent it makes sense to browse the product web pages of your device, with your device11:54
jonekbtw. way too many slases in that URL11:54
timelessno idea if it's new, but the fact is that it isn't there11:55
timelesssomeone is welcome to try to port java, since it's open sourced11:55
timelessi wouldn't suggest trying w/ the 770, given the ram constraints11:55
timelessthat said, i own a 770, so feel free to make something, i'll test it :)11:55
jonektimeless: but maybe it indicates some activities behind the scene? "... at this time."11:56
dwdjonek: That could mean "Until some open source people make the effort for us"11:56
timelessit doesn't11:56
JaffaStd. cover-your-arses answer11:56
timelessi mean, i suppose i could be working on it right now, since i have the sources11:57
timelessbut i'm not :)11:57
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jonekI'm currently trying to compile PhoneME for the 770 and would be a bit pissed if Nokia internals would do that too because it  requires quite some time.11:57
* Jaffa 's planning on picking up Aleksandyr's JamVM/Classpath/Jikes work, or help jonek with phoneME (at some point)11:57
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* timeless frowns11:59
timelessi'm not sure how i could put this11:59
jonekwhat I'm trying to say is: double effort due to lack of communication would really suck11:59
timelessyeah, i understand12:00
timelessthe problem is ndas and such12:00
timelesscompanies do want secrets12:00
jonekndas for compiling GPL soft? - LOL12:01
jonekbut I could understand if Nokia would try to reenable Jazelle support in PhoneME wich was removed by sun when they GPLed it.12:01
dwdjonek: No, NDAs covering whether or not it's being worked on. Hell, I have an open source project I've been working on for years, and I have a slew of NDAs I've signed as a direct result.12:02
timelesseven ports of open source software can be secret12:02
timelesssince they indicate business direction12:02
timelesswhich is very secret12:02
dwdtimeless: Yeah - this is what my NDAs cover, basically.12:03
timelesse.g. imagine there's a company that makes boats12:03
qgilI believe we will find some common sense between all the acronyms12:03
sp3000naah, implausible12:03
timelessand there's this cool copmany that makes gps navigation systems12:03
sp3000a company that makes boats?12:03
* sp3000 ducks12:03
timelessnow, the company makes a gps navigation system, and sometimes makes a customization for a specific oat12:04
dwdsp3000: "Ducks" - "boats" - very good.12:04
timelessat its own expense12:04
timelessyes, but have you ever ridden in a Duck?12:04
timelessnow, suppose that the boat comapny could consider making its own gps navigation inte4gration12:04
dwdtimeless: Not that I can recall, but it's spelt with a W, anyway.12:04
timelessif it anounces that it's going to integrate gps12:05
timelessthen the gps navigation company might choose not to do their own integration12:05
timelessand the boat vendor is tuck spending money12:05
timelessif the gps navigation company announces it's going to do such an integration12:06
timelessthen the boat vendor can save money and just let the gps people do it12:06
timelessit's a game of high stakes poker12:06
timelessyeah, dechnically it's spelled w/ a w, but most people don't bother12:07
X-FadeAny admins alive?12:07
X-Fade*awake ;)12:07
mgedminI misread one of the questions as "can we take our pet duck with us" :)12:10
qgilon the other hand Nokia is investing in an OSSO team and a maemo project that will have a better future exciting and involving external developers rather than upsetting a loosing them12:12
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Jaffalo koen12:15
danielsthe link on seems to be rather hidden, so:
mgedminbut that one links (through instructions for manual update) to, which is a 404 page12:20
timelessso um12:20
timelesscould someone please explain the finnish tax car system to me? :)12:21
timelesssp3000? :)12:21
koenhey jaffa12:22
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danielsbugger the tax cards, i need to get a new residence permit this week, or staying in the country might get interesting12:22
sxpert-worktimeless: you pay, pay some more, and they pay even more :D12:23
timelesssxpert-work: how about: "i've got a tax card, what do i do? i can't read it"12:23
koenJaffa: did you start crossing your fingers yet?12:23
sxpert-worktimeless: then learn suomi :D12:23
timelessoh sure, i'll do that between now and feb 112:24
timelessor however it's spelled in suomi12:24
X-Fadekoen: It seems that N800 at least has a newer OMAP :)12:24
murraycdaniels: What's your nationality?12:26
danielshm, two months processing time, it expires in three weeks, and i go to australia on friday.  shit.12:26
danielsmurrayc: australian12:26
AD-N770X-Fade ARMv612:26
murraycdaniels: Ah. Get it done. You should be able to speed it along.12:26
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Jaffakoen: I've had my fingers crossed for the last 10 hours :-)12:27
AD-N770has some simd instructions12:27
X-FadeOMAP2420, right?12:27
JaffaX-Fade: yup12:27
danielsmurrayc: the only tricky part is the going to australia bit; either i file it now and it's waiting for me in finland when i return -- but i return after it's expired -- or i file it in australia, but a week from now12:27
Jaffakoen: I wish I knew how long to unrealistically get my expectations up for...12:28
murraycdaniels: Dunno about Finland, but in Germany you get residence permits in person, so there's a chance to plead.12:28
murraycdaniels: And in the UK, you can generally speed things up by paying more.12:28
AD-N770X-Fade: I can't remember the exact model now12:28
koenJaffa: indeed12:28
danielsmurrayc: ah, nice.  wonder if i can get a four-day turnaround.  finland don't list anything for expediting.12:29
danielsmurrayc: i'll find out though.  thinking australia might be best; the finnish embassy in australia don't generally seem to be overly busy12:29
murraycOf course, it's best not to ask so it sounds like "may I bribe you"12:29
Tonidaniels: with Australian passport you can get back to .fi without visa, so you can apply new visa when you return12:29
danielsToni: yeeeessss, but that could be interesting12:29
Tonibut don't take this as legal advice :)12:29
danielsToni: 'what are you here for?' 'er, visiting'12:29
danielsToni: though a holiday could be good ;)12:30
X-Fade2420 has a 2D/3D accelerator ;)12:30
Tonidaniels: here you can apply for visa while in country, even if you entered without one (as long as you didn't enter illegally)12:30
danielsToni: also, don't know how it is in finland, but countries such as the uk don't allow you to apply for a visa when you're already in the country on a visa waiver12:30
danielsoh, nice12:30
Tonibut again, check with embassy to be sure =)12:30
Jaffakoen: you got your fingers crossed too, or are you buying one no matter what?12:30
Tonidaniels: btw, you should have applied the extension about 4 months before it expires, but I guess you figured it out already ;)12:31
danielsToni: yeah.  whoops.12:32
dwdNot that I think I stand any chance at all of getting a developer discount, but do we know when those get announced?12:32
qgildaniels: do you have a contract in Finland?12:33
koenJaffa: fingers crossed :)12:34
danielsqgil: yeah, i'm employed here12:34
koenJaffa: If I'd buy a new toy now it would be this:
Tonidaniels: if you didn't yet apply for extension, go to Malmi police station today to get apply for it.. you might get it only when you get back, but atleast you don't need to apply for a new one but only the extension12:35
qgildaniels: then you do not need to worry  :)  -- remember that the EU is strict about foreigners living here mainly for economic reasons - unless you are a convict etc12:35
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Toniprepare for fancy 4-5 hour queue time at the station ;)12:36
danielsqgil: well, i _do_ come from australia ...12:37
Toniaustralia is hardly considered as developing country, I guess :]12:38
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qgildaniels: yes, but you can enter the country and even if your situation is irregular, if you are working with a contract and you are not someone pursued in australia there is no good reason for the Finnish authorities to kick you off the other side of the planet12:38
danielsToni: uhm, does it have to be in malmi? i live and work in ruoholahti12:38
qgilthere might be some paper trouble but that's all it is, paper trouble that is solved with more papers (perhaps including notes)12:39
danielsqgil: ah, good point12:39
Tonidaniels: only the foreign police in Malmi handles the visa cases12:39
danielsToni: ugh12:39
Tonidaniels: so go there tomorrow morning about 20 minutes before it opens, and take food with you.. it really can take over 3 hours in the queue12:39
Toniunless you happen to be early enough :)12:40
daniels'An application for an extended fixed-term residence permit is filed with the local police.'12:40
Toniremember to take a new passport photo with you, new visas have photos12:40
Tonihmm, strange.. but good for you if they have changed it12:41
Jaffakoen: oooh, nice lens12:42
koenJaffa: yes, and about the same price as a n800 :)12:42
JaffaHmm, Karoliina's blog talks about signing up for the dev programme, I assume it's just miscommunication to her (rather than us ;-))12:44
X-FadeJaffa: Check Ari's blog ;)12:45
JaffaX-Fade: indeed, I'm comment #1 on that entry ;-)12:46
JaffaI'd temporarily forgotten how explicit he'd been about it, though.12:46
* Jaffa should get on with some work.12:46
danielsToni: thanks for the info12:47
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Jaffakoen: btw, what's about?12:49
koenJaffa: the FIC phone:
JaffaAh, I was trying to place the "FIC" acronym :)12:49
* qgil has been told by the landlord that there is no cable available in da house - damn!12:52
Jaffaqgil: What's .fi like for DSL?12:52
qgilJaffa: and you ask me?12:52
qgilI'll need to figure out - any provider recommended?12:53
Jaffaqgil: Well, more of a suggestion of an alternative route so not to despair (yet)12:53
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danielsi'm using elisa for broadband ( if i've spelt it right), and they're quite good.  24mbit adsl2+, €65/mo.12:54
danielsjust go to verkkokauppa and replace their dsl modem immediately, it's god-awful.  constant packet loss and dropouts, and only negotiated 13mbit instead of 20mbit with a d-link modem i have here.12:54
X-Fadedaniels: Hmm I pay 24 euro/mo for the same in NL :)12:54
qgildaniels: i thought you would be benefiting from the OSSO wireless network - i was told you live quite near from the office  ;)12:55
Toni24mbit is good for downloading iso's and dvd's, but for other I think it's quite overkill :)12:56
ToniI downgraded 8mbps -> 1mbps, now paying around 20eur/month12:56
danielsqgil: heh.  i'm facing the other way, so i'd have to get on my roof and rig up some ghetto antenna, but i do actually have line-of-sight.12:56
WhizToni, I would downgrade to 1Mbps if it wouldnt cost so much :)12:56
qgilhum, i'm reading right now the small prints at - unsure if i agree with the terms and conditions  ;)12:57
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danielsqgil: i went to the elisa shop in kamppi (level two, i think), asked for dsl, went through my name, address, etc, and that took about 15min.  it was provisioned really quickly.12:58
Whizelisa is quite annoying.. if their automation-systems get an idea that your pc is infected (worm/virus/spambot/etc), they will deny all outgoing/incoming traffic to your computer for couple of hours :)12:58
chxI guess everyone heard by now the exciting news: Skype for N800 coming in the summer12:58
murraycdaniels: Surely you can just get a visa by sending an SMS.12:58
qgilin Spain dsl is a lottery: i got it in 3 days - my friend in another city got it in almost 2 months - same company and package12:59
danielsWhiz: ouch12:59
Whizdaniels, and it is all automated, so that elisa staff cannot disable it if the "protection" triggers..13:00
inzeverybody loves black boxes13:00
qgilWhiz: confess: what were you doing with your laptop13:00
Whizqgil, part of my work is pc-support and at one office for some reason they tend to get viruses on their machines or something and elisa allways cuts the wire and I cant remotely logg in to their workstations to fix it..13:01
qgilbut you reckon it's suspicious... (just joking Whiz )  ;)13:03
qgilany alternative to elisa so I can start making some calls - thank you13:04
Whizsaunalahti is owned by elisa and as cheap as elisa but it doesnt (yet) have that annoying "virus protection" (if I remember right)13:05
murraycIf you want anything in Helsinki cheaper or faster, I guess that mentioning that you work for Nokia would be a good idea.13:05
murraycWorks for hotels.13:05
qgilmurrayc: you mean helsinki or palermo?13:05
Whizdoesnt nokia recommend any ISP? i would guess that they have somekind co-operation with some isp or something..13:05
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danielsyeah, they have a deal with elisa where you get 8mbit dsl for free, i think13:07
danielsbut istr it being weirdly locked down, like you don't get any access to your modem13:07
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qgilapparently nobody is recommending this deal (?) - by default i rather pay my own home connection13:10
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Whizif it doesnt have to be DSL, whatabout cable modem? :)13:11
inz"12:52  * qgil has been told by the landlord that there is no cable available in da house - damn!"13:12
jonek@nokia: congratulations on the well done STUN article/howto :)13:13
sxpert-workdaniels: use the modem as a bridge, and set up your own router behind it13:13
jonekthere is a typo in one of the headlines "transversal" should be "traversal" I think ->
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sxpert-workjonek: yeah, would be nice to use the opengraphics chips in the next incarnation of the nxxx tablet :D13:20
danielswell, opengraphics doesn't exist, much less meet the power requirements, sooo ...13:21
JaffaThe OQO Model 02's docking station is *just* like something I'd like on a 770:
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Jaffa(or N800)13:21
daniels(much less be made in volume, or at less than $us1000 a pop or whatever the dev boards were going for)13:21
sxpert-workdaniels: well. the fpga based hardware exists at this time.13:22
danielssxpert-work: right, and they still are fpga-based, and still cost more than twice as much as the tablet itself13:22
sxpert-workI was talking about the asic version that will eventually come out in a couple years13:22
danielswasn't it meant to be out a year ago?13:23
danielsanyway, we don't use any acceleration, except for yuv -> rgb colourspace conversion and scaling for videos.  the rest is just software-rasterised.13:23
sxpert-workthe fpga hardware was stated to appear at the end of 2006 or so13:23
sxpert-workwhich it did13:23
sxpert-workdaniels: yeah. soon enough people will want opengl in there :D13:24
danielsyeah, well13:24
AD-N770do you know where I can download the latest firmware for N800 ? seems to be wrong13:26
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kulveAD-N770: this one:
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AD-N770kulve at the page that you say: Instructions for manual update (Pop-up) ->
AD-N770but this folder is not created yet, someone forgot it13:34
AD-N770I'm at week 47-9 and I would like to update the device with the latest one13:35
kulveAD-N770: ah, sorry13:35
kulve"For updating your software using a Linux computer, go to" and that talks only about 770..13:36
keesjJaffa, nice13:37
kulvewell, hopefully the links are up-to-date by end of the week when I might get my device :)13:37
keesjI keep getting all those request for my email address it drives me mad13:41
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pahartikqgil: I recommend Sonera for ADSL in Finland... been using it for few years13:46
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pahartikqgil: fill form of document at "" with street address and postal code and submit, and CGI supposedly tells if it is available for location13:50
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dballesterhi to all13:52
inzgood news everybody13:52
inzmaemo-hackers osso-xterm now works w/ N80013:52
koeninz: yay!13:53
inzI wanted to debug libvte to see what happends, and apparently dropping to -O0 from -O2 fixed things =)13:53
dballesterwhat's about n800? I'm seeing some photos right now. Any link to see features ?13:53
moo_mouI've been on an eternal quest to find a device that will make me happy13:54
moo_mouthe features of the 770 just didn't jump out at me enough13:54
moo_moubut I'm going to die if I don't get an 80013:54
alumpso the new 2006 version is the one that works now in w800?13:54
glass_i think you're wrong in looking at electronics then13:54
pahartikqgil: they use bridge mode of ADSL terminal and provide 5 public addresses by DHCP... only restriction I am aware of is that outgoing SMTP connections have to go through their SMTP server13:54
NickDethere is already a new OS2007 update13:55
NickDeaccording to the n800 tableteer website13:55
moo_mouI'm not literally looking for a device to make me happy.  I just wanted more functionality without having to get a cell phone.13:56
inzhmm, I'll take that back, it's not working too well after all13:57
inzI'll have to tune the vte lib somewhat13:57
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dballesterIf n770/n800 could be used as mobile phone too ( with bluetooth headset )... And i'm very happy with my n770! but...13:58
|tbb|is it possible to import kismet created accesspoint oints13:59
|tbb|to maemo - mapper13:59
dwdpahartik: Outgoing 25? You could probably bypass that by using 587, if you need to connect directly from MUA to a SMTP server for submission.13:59
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pahartikdwd: I could probably create SSH or other tunnel outside, but back when they blocked that port for outgoing connections, I was worried that incoming connections would get blocked too (I am running SMTP server to receive my mail at cave)14:02
dwdpahartik: Incoming is normally unaffected. Outgoing is fine, even if you run your own mail server. If you're accessing remote mailservers, you should be using port 587 anyway, not 25.14:03
pahartikdwd: so I do not much mind, as long as incoming SMTP works :)14:03
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Toniwith some operators in .fi you need to route inbound SMTP via their MX also, but they forward the mails to your internal MX14:03
dwdToni: That can be a little annoying. Especially if you have BINARYMIME or 8BITMIME, and they don't.14:05
pahartikdwd: hmmm... "submission 587/tcp # Submission [RFC2476]"... is that SMTP as well?14:05
dwdpahartik: A profile of it, yes.14:05
dwdpahartik: It basically splits off C2S and S2S connections in the mail infrastructure, so that different policies can be put in place for each somewhat easier.14:06
dwdpahartik: Also, quite a few extensions are specifically for submission, these days, although that again is more policy than anything else. But it's fair to say that you wouldn't want to be using BURL over links between MTAs, for instance. :-)14:08
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jtraa reference to skype in nokia announcement is interesting, from what I heard the skype was complaining about n770 being marginal platform before, but now it could also mean there would be skype client for n800 and also for n770 (if CPU performance allows it) because thay would gain userbase from "just" a recompile14:09
florian_kcgood morning14:09
Jaffalo florian_kc14:09
dwdI should probably do some self-publicity - my email client for the 770, Telomer, does all this port 587 and BURL stuff.14:09
* pahartik looks at (fairly short) RFC 247614:10
dwdpahartik: You can generally kick your MTA into "just doing it" through configuration. Oh, and that RFC has been obsoleted by another - I forget the number.14:10
pahartikdwd: I would guess so... it is Postfix14:12
dwdpahartik: Ah - For postfix you just define another SMTP service in, basically.14:12
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pahartikdwd: maybe you should refer to "Telomer" as "email client for Maemo" instead of "email client for 770"?14:15
dwdpahartik: Probably. :-)14:15
dwdpahartik: Except that I'd now have to say something like "email client for Maemo, 770, N800" or something.14:16
konttoriIs the N800 email client of any use?14:19
JaffaReports say it's a bit better, but that's probably just down to extra CPU given djcb et al are working on Modest instead.14:20
konttoriOk. So odd that they have such trouble making a sane email client. Given that sylpheed worked just fine by itself. Just a few UI tuneups and that should have been it.14:21
Jaffakonttori: indeed.14:21
* konttori released 1.21 media converter14:21
konttoriSomeone with N800 could go ahead and test the 400x240 resolution video.14:22
Guardianhaha the last devel mailing list entry :) does porting a random poker or other linux app qualifies you to the 99 euros offer? ;)14:22
* Jaffa isn't going to move Sylpheed port to Maemo 3 yet until he knows one of the following: a) if he's getting a developer N800, b) if a Maemo 3.0-based OS is going to be released for the 770. Having multiple branches and twice as many Scratchbox targets (and potentially Scratchbox installs) does not appear.14:22
Guardianif so i'll port poker 3d cause 3d is better than 2xs14:22
JaffaGuardian: especially if it's not been ported already! Tsk ;-)14:22
dwdGuardian: I did wonder about that.14:22
konttoriJaffa: shouldn't the maemo 2 version of sylpheed work just fine in the N800?14:23
dwdJaffa: Given that I use Python, I suppose I ought to install a second scratchbox and so on, on the basis that it should "just work".14:23
Jaffakonttori: I'm not sure - the docs aren't clear: I got the impression at least a recompile is needed (again)14:24
Guardianand, does it have to be opensource or freely available ?14:24
konttoriI got the impression that most of the apps work ok on 200714:24
Guardianplease visit for details that are not posted yet :)14:24
Jaffadwd: I've been playing a lot with Python recently with a slew of Freevo patches, might try doing some 770 devel with it (got an idea for some Psion EPOC R5-like apps I need)14:24
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Fatalthis is the day i kick myself in the face for not finishing one of my projects :/14:25
dwdJaffa: Feel free to join me in working on a decent email client with a decent client library. :-)14:25
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dwdGuardian: My impression is that the E99 offer is only for open source developers. More accurately, for open source developers who are good at self-publicity.14:26
Jaffakonttori: Nope, the docs are fairly clear - although the API hasn't changed, the libraries are not binary compatible so a recompile *is* necessary:
suihkulokkiJaffa: maemo 3.0 uses the same ABI as 2.x, so any incompatabilities is caused by changes in library versions14:26
X-Fade"The AI 2006 is forwards compatible with AI 2007 but the new Single Click Install method that is introduced in AI 2007 is not working in AI 2006 or older versions."14:27
mgedminGuardian: dwd: my impression is that the €99 offer is for open-source developers that Nokia wants to start porting their software to the N80014:27
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JaffaThere are only ~170 apps on ApplicationCatalog2006, + ~100 on Wip, so that should mean one for everyone there, right? :-/14:27
mgedminso, write something that Nokia would want to run on the tabled, and waith for the phone call14:27
Jaffamgedmin: that would have been my assumption, but ferenc mentioned *existing* 770/Maemo work is a consideration (whether or not it's "the" consideration, I dunno)14:28
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mgedminwell, you're supposed to port your apps from mistral/scirocco to bora also14:28
mgedminactually, if nokia really wants you to port something to the tablet, they might just give you one for free14:29
* mgedmin would happily buy a N800 at full price right now, if nokia's online shops would ship to Lithuania14:30
mgedminI mean, some of the tablets were assembled in Estonia, that's like 200 km from here14:31
Guardianis it me or there is currently no such thing as an application form for this 99euros offer ?14:31
florian_kchrm... we do, but i have no idea if our distributor ships them already14:31
mgedminGuardian: see the /topic14:31
konttoriI think it's good that nokia asks you to pay some money. That way there will be only valid buyers / semi valid buyers for the developer versions14:31
Jaffamgedmin: midnight raid on the factory?14:31
dwd - a whole new meaning to "car crash".14:31
Guardianmaybe the question is not good enough then :)14:31
Jaffakonttori: presumably the "selection panel" (or whomever) will only choose active & worthy people anyway. I'd imagine a mix of existing developers and new, high-profile OSS people they want to attract.14:32
dwdJaffa: I'd guess they'll simply pick those they think will give them the most free marketing.14:33
konttoriJaffa: true enough.14:34
konttoriI'm still surprised that N800 didn't include GPS. Considering how much GPS apps have been in discussion around 770.14:35
mgedminsell GPS separately == more $ and €14:35
konttoriBut still, I prefer camera to GPS14:35
nomisI don't really see a point in including GPS.14:35
nomisConnecting a mouse via Bluetooth seems way more useful.14:36
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* pahartik loves Bluetooth14:38
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* dballester launches a wishlist: easy way to use bluetooth headset for n770. An integrated PIM ( calendar, tasks... ). Mobile phone support ;)14:41
mgedmindballester: does that imply that there is a hard way to use a bluetooth headset for the n770?14:43
pahartikdballester: all that, and encrypted storage for authentication data (like Keyring on PalmOS)14:43
mgedminwell, a hard way that doesn't imply writing your own kernel drivers with audio support for the bluetooth chip14:43
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dballestermgedmin, i've read some time ago people make some tests14:44
mgedminiirc they could connect to the headset but couldn't actually transfer audio14:44
timelesscmihai: [gmail] Inbox (483554) that's unread conversations :)14:46
dwdpahartik: GNOME has a keyring - couldn't that be ported?14:47
mgedminso, it will work in the future14:48
timelessdballester: does blue tooth headset not work w/ your 770?14:49
mgedmintimeless: if anyone reported their bt headset working with their 770, what would be great and unexpected news14:49
dballestertimeless, i've not tried, only read 'what easy is to do'14:49
* timeless frowns14:50
timelessmy headset isn't where i thought it was14:50
timelessi never tried, i kinda assumed it worked14:50
timelessgoogle talk worked fine when i tried that14:50
mgedmintimeless: I haven't tried, but I believe
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|tbb|anyone knows, that maemo-mapper supports importing kismet gps map14:51
pahartikdwd: "/usr/share/doc/gnome-keyring/README" looks good, but I do not know how to access it14:52
timelessoh well14:52
dwdpahartik: DBus, I *think*. But I'm not an expert in any form.14:52
pahartikdwd: "it" as in "stored authentication data"14:52
timelesssorry :(14:53
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Guardiandwd: just read the announcement again on, in fact now i assume that you have to be a maemo opensource developer having already contributed somehow to the application list14:55
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|tbb|anyone familar with maemo mapper?14:58
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Guardianany way to create semi transparent windows/widgets with gtk on the 770 ?14:58
keesjI think there is some kind of call that can be used to tell the root widget to use the same texture as the parent widget15:04
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keesjSo you perhaps can fake it a bit:)15:05
Guardiangonna try15:06
Guardiani also found that: but i guess it has too high requirements15:07
pahartikdwd: how does one configure Telomer to communicate with IMAP server on port 1430 of localhost?15:08
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JaffaAlarm interface FTW:
JaffaAnd input method documentation too. Lots of excellent docs15:13
dwdpahartik: One configures Polymer to talk to
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pahartikdwd: I do not have ACAP server...15:17
Guardiandoes the hildon him bora how to apply also to N770 ? tko ?15:18
JaffaGuardian: I'd imagine it's bora-specific, so until the 770 gets a Maemo 3.0-based OS,...15:19
Guardianany date for this ?15:20
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jonekJaffa: states "For those who would like to have both Nokia 770 and Nokia N800 maemo development environments there will be at the end of January new maemo 2.2 maintenance release supporting same Scratchbox Apophis R4 environment as maemo 3.0 release."15:21
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JaffaGuardian: it's also an "if" not a "when", as no-one's confirmed that there *would* be an OS 2007 release for the 770.15:21
Guardiananyway for the 770 seems that there is still the possibility to write a complete GtkIMContext from scratch15:22
joneksadly it doesn't say there will be maemo 3.0 for the 77015:22
Jaffajonek: yeah, doesn't bode well: so developers targetting both devices will only need one scratchbox environment but with *four* rootstraps (SDK_PC_770, SDK_ARM_770, SDK_PC_800, SDK_ARM_800) :-(15:22
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jonekJaffa: IIRC Apophis R4 has disk space advantages compared to 0.9.8. but I don't understand if that is in regard to rootstraps or toolchains15:27
* Jaffa hopes so as another couple of 1GB rootstraps will have be running for the hills15:27
jtraha, cool, you can edit virtual keyboard layout in xml, then compile it to .vkb file - (bottom of page) now I wonder how many of this applies to n77015:28
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Jaffajtra: I imagine that bit does15:29
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nelson_bomMmmmmmmm, crunchy dual sdcard goodness.15:35
Guardianwell people really wanting to build .vkb files could already do it15:36
Guardianthere is an .html file somewhere in the rootstrap describing the content15:36
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jonekwill new versions of libraries be available only for OS 2007 (and maemo 3.0) or will OS 2006 (and maemo 2.1/2.2) be updated, too?15:39
Jaffajonek: define "libraries"?15:39
jonekgstreamer/alsalib libjingle and such things15:40
JaffaGood question, if 2.2's only a maintenance release to get SB Apophis compatibility, I'd guess "no" :(15:41
jonekbasically lib*.deb and *dev.deb15:41
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JaffaHowever, the lack of an end-user Maemo 3 image for 770s could be the trigger which causes taking Maemo 2.2, 3.0 and the root straps and creating a community image if 770 owners get "stranded"15:41
jonekJaffa: ;-) I'd like to hear something more offical15:42
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k-shi guys15:53
k-slots buzz going on :-)15:53
k-snew device, new life :-)15:54
roopeIt's shiny. :)15:54
* dwd is possibly the only person who prefers the old look.15:54
danielsJaffa: be assured that this sentiment is pretty well-known in nokia.15:55
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k-sdwd:  I also rather it15:55
k-sguys, any german guy here?15:55
k-scanola still have no german translator :-(15:56
dwdOut of curiosity, has anyone actually tried putting OS2007 onto a 770 and seen what happens?15:56
Jaffadaniels: that's good to know. I hope it'll all turn out alright, we've had no *definitive* statement yet about no Maemo 3.0 OS for 770s, so we could all just be speculating whilst you Nokians sit quietly15:56
danielsdwd: it won't even flash, let alone boot.15:56
nelson_bomkonttori: the reason you really want a separate GPS receiver is because the best place for GPS reception is the worst place for a user interface.15:56
k-sJaffa: it's on public svn, so you can recomplie and generate it yourself15:56
danielsJaffa: unfortunately i have to hide behind the standard corporate shield of 'it's not my place to confirm or deny', sorry.  but we definitely know internally.15:56
Jaffadaniels: yup, understood.15:57
MDKrobtaylor: ping ping15:57
Jaffak-s: indeed, and if it came to it, that's fantastic. The first thing would be to try and move Opera and other proprietary stuff from existing images15:57
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k-sJaffa: yep, prop stuff sucks a lot15:58
dwddaniels: If OS2007 does get backported to the 770, will it magically sprout a webcam?15:58
danielsdwd: bootloader and kernel are hugely device-specific.15:58
k-sdwd: ahahahahah15:58
danielsdwd: yeah, and two full-size sd slots.  it's sweet.15:58
danielsand a hardware qwerty keyboard.  engadget were annoyed that itos2006 didn't somehow include a hardware qwerty keyboard, so we took that into account.15:58
* tigert tries compiz on the desktop again15:58
* tigert is amused now that his tooltips teleport away in a puff of smoke15:59
dwddaniels: Cool. I'm assuming we'll need to water it well, to make this work?15:59
tigertbut somehow I dont think this will be funny for a long time15:59
nelson_bomdaniels: nahhh, you don't want a qwerty keyboard for a handheld machine.  If you're typing with two hands, who is holding your machine?15:59
dwdnelson_bom: Gosh, we all have servants for that sort of thing. Don't you?16:00
danielsnelson_bom: tell engadget this16:00
tigertnelson_bom: the antigravity devic.. oops16:00
nelson_bomdaniels: and for that matter, who is holding your keyboard?16:00
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nelson_bomdaniels: here's my solution:
* dwd mutters something about the agenda.16:00
* tigert switches back to metacity and normal desktop16:01
danielsnow we just need a canola release for the n80016:01
* k-s wants German translators for Canola :-)16:01
tigertwow, GL sweetness was fun a whole 3 minutes16:01
koennow we just need a source release of canola16:01
k-swe already have pt_BR, es_ES, es_AR, ca_ES16:01
Guard][anwill canola ever be released as source ?16:02
* andrunko hides16:02
k-spolish is in the way, as well as french16:02
Jaffakoen: I found it ironic they wanted help translating it, my unspoken reaction was "so what do I get?"16:02
|tbb|i think not16:02
nelson_bomtigert: I can't use a GL desktop until I can afford three 3D cards for each monitor.16:02
konttorinelson_bom: a very good point16:02
koenJaffa: my thought exactly16:02
dwdJaffa: Yes, that was what I thought.16:02
k-skoen, Guard][an: we hope!16:02
tigertnelson_bom: its not that it isnt fluid or nice16:02
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k-sJaffa: so far, you get it in your language16:02
tigertbut the stuff is just so all-over-your-face16:02
dwdJaffa: But then I thought, hang on, I don't speak any other language well enough to translate it anyway.16:02
k-sJaffa: i18n strings are somehow part of the code16:03
tigertits way overdone imho16:03
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Jaffadwd: that also went through my mind, so I didn't say anything ;-)16:03
tigert"hey look, I can wobble, so therefore.. um.. I WOBBLE! LOOKIE!"16:03
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nelson_bomtigert: sure ... it's like when we got color screens.  Everthing had to be high contrast colors.16:03
tigertit'll get right eventually16:03
nelson_bomtigert: once it's not a toy, people will figure out the pastels.16:03
Jaffak-s: but if I'm capable of translating it, I can already understand what it says ;-)16:03
dwdJaffa: I mean, I suppose I could translate it into Bad French, or Really Limited Welsh.16:03
k-sJaffa, koen, Guard][an: you guys could put some pressure to release the code... :-)16:03
Jaffadwd: I'll help with le francais mal.16:04
tigertnelson_bom: interesting keyboard idea16:04
k-sJaffa, koen, Guard][an: I'm open source guy and I want that, but I'm an employee and can't do much16:04
tigertnelson_bom: do the keys click?16:04
dwdJaffa: "Le Menu File", "Le Exit", etc.16:04
Jaffa"Le objet ne trouve pas" - oh no, that'd be MediaStreamer with MythTV16:04
nelson_bomtigert: not completely silent: the sound is more related to the feel.  Feel V. important.16:05
tigertI agree16:05
tigertbecause you need to feel which key clicks16:05
tigerttactile feedback16:05
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dwdJaffa: Welsh is harder, you do stuff like "Ecsut", and "Ffail Meniw"16:05
nelson_bomThey're Marquardt keymodules.   /me fawns in the direction of Germany.16:05
Guard][anjaffa: are you french ?16:05
tigertits funny that I can type a LOT faster with the 770 / N800 thumb keyboard,16:05
* dwd gapes at Guard][an16:05
tigertwhen I have touchscreen tap sound turned loud16:05
JaffaGuard][an: nah, British. Got an A in my French GCSE (god knows how though ;-))16:06
tigertnelson_bom: reichelt or conrad? :)16:06
dwdJaffa: So did I, amazingly.16:06
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Guard][ani'm french, and what i hate most is localized error messages :) then i have to guess what the original message could have been, then google16:06
Guard][anhow smart ...16:06
* tigert got a catalog from marius16:06
nelson_bomtigert: er .... neither?16:06
JaffaGuard][an: wow, your English is amazing16:06
tigertmmmmmm... components.. :)16:06
Guard][analso, a lot of french ppl lose their time translating stuff to french, like samba documentation in french, or opengl documentation in french16:06
Guard][aninstead of just contributing to the project ...16:07
nelson_bomtigert: actually, these keymodules are made about 130 miles from my house in the US.16:07
* Jaffa *very* nearly would be fluent in French. When I was 8 my family nearly moved to Paris with my Dad's job.16:07
tigertoh right16:07
JaffaBut it fell through at just the last minute, so we unpacked the house and my parents had another son instead...16:07
tigertgot that wrong16:07
Guard][anjaffa: i try to brush it up from time to time :p16:07
tigertthose names are german webstores that sell "stuff"16:07
tigertnelson_bom: input methods is interesting stuff too, but my reason of fondness into switchs etc is flight simulators16:08
Jaffadwd: I think my French reading just about scraped me there, which I can still just about manage (well, when in museums and stuff with family on holiday)16:08
* Jaffa 'd love to be able to speak French properly16:08
dwdJaffa: I can still read technical French, which frankly astounds me. Can't speak very much, though.16:09
Guard][anwill the N800 have 3D acceleration ? opengl es ? nothing ?16:09
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danielsGuard][an: no, it does not.  sorry.16:09
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nelson_bomtigert: looks like a nice collection of switches.16:10
Guard][anwell yeah, it's not a psp after all16:10
mgedminomg, reading the #maemo backlog is becoming a full-time job16:10
mgedmintigert: xcompmgr is a lightweight way to add window shadows and optional transparencies to metacity16:11
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danielsmgedmin: please don't put 'xcompmgr' and 'lightweight' in the same sentence16:11
k-sguys, do someone has experienced with compiler optimizations?16:12
k-s-march, -mfpu, ...?16:12
k-sthumb and like?16:12
danielsk-s: ish.  what do you want to know?16:13
k-sdaniels: what were your results?16:13
tigertdaniels: ;)16:13
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jonekdaniels: if I use a sbox toolchain outside of sbox (0.9.8, gcc) to crosscompile for the Nokia 770, do I have to provide the -mcpu= switch?16:14
danielsk-s: in what sense? compiling bigger stuff with thumb results in a net win because the result is much smaller, and thus occupies less memory/cache, but thumb is inherently slower, iirc.16:14
danielsjonek: i don't know, sorry16:14
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k-sdaniels: what -march or -mtune are you using?16:16
k-sdaniels: for performance critical apps, like games, players or things like that?16:16
danielsk-s: i don't know, whatever the standard is16:16
k-sI'm using -Os16:16
joneknevertheless what is the correct -mcpu setting for gcc and the 770?16:16
k-sdaniels: yes, I'm also using the standard16:16
danielsk-s: i'm using -O2.  yes, smaller is nice, not _that_ nice.16:17
k-sdaniels: -Os = -O2, but trades loop unrolling by space16:17
k-sI hope to use GCC4, that provides ways to optimize the software based on profile input16:17
NickDeoh sweet16:18
AD-N770AD-N770 try apt-get upgrade in a N800 running the firmware from week 4716:18
NickDeI just encoded a movie using media converter for the n80016:18
nelson_bomSo when I was whinging about how SD was an obvious choice even three years ago, I'll bet that several people were having to keep their mouths shut.16:18
NickDeworks perfectly16:18
koenand thumb doesn't save much compared to -Os16:18
k-sdaniels: are you using -fomit-frame-pointer, -ffast-math or other switch16:18
k-skoen: does -Os and thumb works well togheter?16:18
danielsk-s: for the x server? no16:18
danielskoen: yes, but thumb + O2 still unrolls and the like.16:19
koenk-s: they did in my experiments16:19
konttoriNickDe: Can you try the 400x240 resolution as well?16:19
NickDeI did!16:19
koendaniels: in the end my rootfs.tar.bz2 was 100kB smaller with Os+thumb than Os+arm16:19
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k-skoen: what gcc options are you using, and what purpose?16:19
konttoriand it worked! Great news!16:19
NickDe400x240 29.9 fps16:19
AD-N770I had the bad idea of doing it with ssh via wifi16:19
NickDeworked fine in the default n800 media player16:19
koendaniels: and on ~20MB that isn't much16:19
NickDeI was very happy16:19
danielskonttori: it did? i thought pixel doubling was broken as shipped.  odd.16:19
konttoriOh man, that's just so cool16:19
danielsNickDe: oh, it works fine in the media player, yeah.  but mplayer will be broken.16:20
AD-N770currently last message is: Stopping WLAN Connection Daemon:16:20
NickDedaniels: meh as long as I have my movies for the flight to vegas tomorrow16:20
NickDeI'm catching the last 2 days of CES16:20
konttoriSo, I guess default player uses scaling even for the 400x240 movie and not pixel doubling.16:21
konttoriI wonder if the image is more fuzzy on N800 default player than on 770 mplayer.16:21
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JaffaYay, a bloke at work's just ordered his N800 :)16:23
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k-skoen: what gcc options are you using, and what purpose?16:24
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nelson_bomkoen: how is FIC coming on the openmoko?16:26
koennelson_bom: I suspect they won't make 2007.1 for the release16:27
nelson_bomkoen: everything good takes time.  It's the bad things that happen overnight.16:27
danielskonttori: it's still hardware-scaled16:28
konttoridaniels: ok, so it's probably a bit fuzzier than it would be with pixel doubling. But 400x240... anyway great news!16:29
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danielskonttori: er.  why would it be fuzzier?16:29
konttoriJust thinking that if it's scaling on some kind of float operations, the pixels wouldn't be that exact. Bu go figure. I would need to see if that's the case or not.16:30
danielsyou'd be hard-pressed to notice the difference at 220dpi, tbh16:31
danielsperformance probably won't be as good as on the 770 with pixel doubling for various, relatively complicated, reasons, but that's already fixed and will be in a future update if we ever hypothetically release one, etc16:31
Jaffadaniels: btw, someone mentioned a "hardware keyboard" separate to "Bluetooth keyboard" in Control Panel (this could be wrong), if so is there anything you can say about that? Or is it miscommunication and the only hardware keyboard planned on being supported is BT16:37
DisconnectJaffa: its bluetooth16:37
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koenJaffa: powered usb keyboard?16:37
danielsJaffa: it's bluetooth.  there's a bluetooth applet, and a hardware keyboard applet for selecting the keyboard layout for bluetooth keyboards.16:37
daniels(we're using xkb now, so no need for any more ghetto xmodmap hacks.)16:38
Jaffadaniels: Ah, cool. Thought that'd be it.16:38
AD-N770apt-get upgrade, had been a bad idea :)16:38
AD-N770any one has the bora firmware and can send it to me ?16:38
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k-sany idea when google talk desktop will get video?16:50
k-sand which extension n800 uses for it?16:50
_matthias___its not been as busy in here for month now ;) - new hardware makes geeks happy obviously16:54
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dwdHmmm. Just noticed that Mistral, at least, is using OpenSSL 0.9.7 - any reason why it's not using 0.9.8?17:04
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waiteCongrats on the N800 guys!17:07
waiteAnd Bora no less.17:14
Disconnectwow, sw update already?17:14
waiteI'd expect a few more as people get the N800 and find issues17:15
JaffaAnyone had a Developer Device discount code yet? (figured I'll ask about once per day)17:19
koenJaffa: nope17:19
koenJaffa: but even with a discount code I would need to convince my SO :)17:19
waitekoen, I know the feeling. After the holidays is always a really tough time to buy. But for the price...I might just convince her.17:20
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dwdkoen: I suppose I could point out that a new N800 would free my 770 for more Tux Paint for the kids...17:21
waiteBirthday is coming up. But I am not really expecting to get the devel discount.17:21
koenwaite: my birthday is between x-mas and new year17:22
waiteMine has become an internet radio for my 2 yr old17:22
koenso nokia was 2 weeks too late17:22
dwdAh, got it - perfect justification. Two kids, therefore I *need* two Tux Paint devices for long journeys.17:22
waitekoen, bummer! I have a month so I migh be safe.17:22
danielskoen: compusa started selling the first n800s exactly on my birthday (and it was one of the big milestone birthdays as well)17:22
waitedwd, Run with that. If it works for you!17:22
koendaniels: congrats17:23
danielsand happy birthday to yourself too17:23
waiteI have another decade before I hit one of thos milestones again. I hope I can get me an N800 by then!17:23
* Jaffa 's due for a new phone in a month or so, so here's hoping for an iPhone to go with a (crossing fingers) discounted N80017:23
dwdwaite: Try Tux Paint for the kids. My two-year old loves it. My 5 year old is a little superior, and prefers the Sketch app. (I don't know why, I reckon Tux Paint is much more fun)17:23
timelessi can't understand why anyone would like sketch17:24
timelesstux paint has to be better17:24
koenJaffa: a nokia 6210 works pretty sweet with osx17:24
waiteHmm. I'll give it a shot. It would save me from dancing around the house at 6:00 AM on a Saturday!17:24
dwddaniels: My last birthday was a milestone in hex. Although I suppose 0x21 still sounds good.17:24
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waiteSounds like we got an old crowd here :)17:24
Disconnect doesn't accept 800 id's17:25
waiteFor OSS projects anyway.17:25
dwdDisconnect: I'll sell you a 770 ID for GPB 269.17:25
dwdGBP, rather.17:25
Disconnectdwd: ..or i'll just finish opening my 770...17:25
dwdDamn, thought it was worth a try. :-)17:26
roopeSketch is simple. :)17:26
mgedminthere's nothing usable on a n800 at that page anyway17:26
partmgedmin: flasher maybe17:26
mgedminI think that's at downloads/d3.html17:26
mgedmind3.php actually17:27
Disconnectyah but no image17:27
mgedminI haven't seen the os2007 image anywhere17:27
* Jaffa neither.17:27
mgedminthe page where it's supposed to appear ( is 40417:27
Disconnectwindows updater has it17:27
partmost devices should already have the latest software17:28
Disconnectlinks into the 770 update pages for upgrading with linux17:28
Disconnectpart: mine said there was an update17:28
ssvbdaniels: can you tell us what graphics chip is used in n800? does it support scaling? such information could help fixing mplayer (
danielsthey're not up on, rest assured they're not being deliberately hidden from you, and you'll know when it does.17:29
partdisconnect: what said that?17:29
Disconnecttableteer page. (it shipped with 47-20)17:29
danielsssvb: yes, it's exactly the same setup as the 770.  omap display controller feeds into an external lcd controller.  but there's not much point in doing it yourself.  just use the standard xv extension, which the x server now provides support for: that's how the media player does it.17:29
Disconnectso the update notification worked ;)17:30
dragorndaniels: I assume you're on the hardware dev group?17:32
danielsdragorn: no, software dev.  i'm the x maintainer, and do some kernel stuff as well.17:33
dragorndaniels: Cool.  Know anyone I could harass about getting more details on the wifi stuff? :)17:33
dragorndaniels: I'm trying to determine if the rawtx lockout is in the firmware or in the driver binary blob (well, I know it's in the driver binary blob, but I'm trying to find out if it's a firmware limitation as well)17:34
danielsdragorn: to be honest, i don't know, and i don't think you're likely to find out; if it's a limit deliberately placed there (for whatever reasons, be they good or bad), people are unlikely to let you know how to circumvent them. ;)17:35
dragorndaniels: I sort of suspected that answer, though I know for a fact that there would be a bunch of customers waiting for master/inject mode :P17:35
dragornWifi firmware/drivers are universally a mess17:36
sxpert-workdragorn: that's the fault of those stupid US companies that have too many lawyers in love with patents, NDAs and the like17:37
* dragorn nods17:37
ssvbdaniels: Thanks for the information. Will there be an update with xv extension for 770? Also is scaling done by ARM or DSP (in software) or using graphics chip?17:37
dragornoh I know17:37
dragornwell, partly the fault of that, partly the FCC, w/ the binary blob I can't (legally) try to figure out how much of the TI chipset is firmware based and how much is driver offload17:38
dragornand I've been, well, too lazy to try to find alternative docs on the chipset elsewhere17:38
dragornIt's nice that it actually reports valid FCS bytes, that was a surprise.  Not fundamentally too useful I don't think, but a surprise.17:38
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danielsssvb: a) no, unless the kernel support is written at some point; b) using the gpu17:43
JaffaFor those with N800's a Mac OS X inspired background which should go with the default theme quite nicely:
*** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | | No, the new image isn't available yet for non-Windows"17:50
mgedminwhoa, my 770 is going crazy17:53
Disconnectjealousy probably ;)17:53
AD-N770nethack prerelease for bora at
|tbb|better than u going ;)17:53
mgedmintrying to ssh into it gives me either /bin/sh: Too many open files in system17:53
mgedminor -sh: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: Error 2317:53
bstockso does anyone know if the 2007 os on the N800 is compatable/backported to the 770?17:53
mgedminbstock: it is neither17:54
|tbb|what about nethack what does this package contain?17:54
mgedminnokians say they will continue to release os updates for the 77017:54
bstockso 2006.2 is the best we're gonna get?17:54
mgedminbut I don't know whether that will be 2006.3 or 2007-for-the-77017:54
AD-N770tbb is a game17:54
Disconnect|tbb|: nethack, i'd guess....17:54
bstockah ok17:54
koenthanks to eabi you can actually run OS2006 apps17:55
mgedmin2154 open files17:55
mgedminall of them ~/.FBReader/config.changes17:55
*** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | | No, the new image isn't available yet for non-Windows | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported"17:55
koenbut keep in mind that the reverse isn't true, since the n800 is armv617:55
dragornheh.  Someone failed to do a fclose :P17:55
mgedminlooks like my mysterious crashes are explained17:56
mgedminI always have fbreader running17:56
|tbb|is this a game?17:56
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florian_kcgpe pim app for os/2007 work now too17:57
Jaffaflorian_kc: excellent.17:57
dragornmgedmin: Throw a ulimit wrapper around the binary17:57
mgedminI'll do something better: report a bug17:57
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dragornmgedmin: and at least then it will crash fbreader instead of your nokia17:57
dragornmgedmin: well, yes, that would be better :P  But as a stopgap, ulimit is handy.17:57
florian_kcferenc created these nice install files for them :-)17:58
roopethat dev program thing is a bit strange. are they really picking 500 different developers. That's quite much work. :)17:58
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Jaffaroope: so it would appear17:58
dwdroope: Yeah, much easier to pick the same developer 500 times.17:59
roopeYeah, the guy called iBay.17:59
Jaffaroope: I suppose it's easier than sifting through 1000 applications (until they get to 384 and run out of names)17:59
roopeI guess that's true also.18:00
roopeBut it kind of excludes potential future developers.18:01
* gpd ponders the merits of a bluetooth keyboard18:02
Jaffaroope: If I was doing it, I'd allocate, say, 50% to existing contributors and 50% to high-profile, targetted non-current Maemo, but OSS, developers.18:03
dwdJaffa: If I was doing it, I'd allocate all of them to people actively working on email applications.18:03
Jaffadwd: Oh, yes - definitely :)18:04
lleI'd just sell them on ebay and go drink some beer18:04
dwdJaffa: Thought you might agree. :-)18:04
Jaffadwd: :)18:04
koendoes anyone have the url for the package versions of the various maemo versions handy?18:04
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dwdJaffa: I reckon 100 each should do us, what do you think?18:04
keesjall this N800 talk really makes it impossible for me to work.I don't want to miss crucial information18:06
JaffaHeaven forbid I would try to make money off it. I'd use 100 to buy 100 N800s - just imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!18:06
koen is funny18:06
dwdJaffa: Oh, *cool* idea... Mobile beowulf...18:06
JaffaEspecially if you could do some mesh networking handoff so the grid gained in power as more devices came in range, and handled nodes going out of range.18:09
* dragorn twitches at the mention of grids18:09
dragornGoddamn buzzwords :P18:09
* Jaffa used to work for IBM, can't help it ;-)18:09
gpdcan you really only use Fat on the cards? Ext3 won't work?18:09
dwdJaffa: Hmmm... I think I know some people doing wireless mesh grid computing, actually.18:09
dragornJaffa: I used to be a mainframe monkey :P18:09
danielslle: why do you have to sell n800s on ebay in order to drink beer?18:09
dwdJaffa: ISTR the guy's involved heavily in HIP, which'd also be pretty cool on a Maemo device, and a whole heap more practical.18:10
dragornJaffa: 2 years of my life were, "why can't you get globus running on a z/900?"  well, because java is frigging huge, the s390 JVM doesn't do JIT, and because when you take a box that isn't that powerful to begin with, and slice it 500 ways, you're going to get crap.  "but why can't you do it?"18:10
Jaffadragorn: all this cutting edge technology must be scary: more than 3 colours on screen at once, no 3270 or 5250 codes whizzing backwards and forwards...18:10
dragornJaffa: And I can boot a linux system w/out formatting the kernel to 80 characters and writing it to a virtual punch card stack! :P18:11
dragornJaffa: Actually I was the first person to run linux on 390 outside of IBM.  But I don't miss that job at all.18:12
Jaffadragorn: neat18:12
dragornJaffa: so yeah.  grids?  Bad. :P18:12
dwdJaffa: My grandmother once worked somewhere where the limiting factor on the speed of the machine was that if they ran it too fast, the friction caused the paper tape to catch fire.18:12
JaffaSo, where's the Hercules Maemo port :)18:12
Jaffadwd: heh18:12
dragornJaffa: Oh god. :P18:12
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lledaniels: if I'd have to get rid of 500 of them18:13
dragornJaffa: whats worse is it could probably beat a s/370 or maybe even a G1 or 3 390 :P18:13
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lledaniels: but it's quite academic, since I don't18:13
llemaybe I missed your point, I'm quite tired18:14
Jaffadragorn: a mainframe in your pocket's got to be *slightly* cool18:14
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dragornJaffa: ever see the "laptop" 390?18:14
kenderDeveloper Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you18:15
kenderhow is this?18:15
dragornJaffa: it was a luggable with a UPS18:15
Jaffakender: they're deciding on 500 "special" and "deserving" people. When? We don't know.18:15
dragornJaffa: running OS/2, with a 390 daughterboard18:15
* dwd tries to look special.18:15
kenderJaffa, but, who are those people?18:15
jonek*gulp* I think I maybe compiled phoneME for the 77018:16
JaffaAll 167 people on #maemo.18:16
Jaffajonek: really? Tarball?18:16
dwdkender: Nobody knows. Or if they do, nobody's telling.18:16
JaffaPeople with a 'z' in their name?18:16
JaffaWho knows...18:16
dragornJaffa: basically a luggable p370, weighed about 80 lbs, ran for about 30 minutes on battery, would cook your lap if you were foolish enough to risk crippling injury and crushed legs by holding it :P18:16
WillySillyJust dont give lennart one again this time :P18:16
jonekJaffa: _maybe_ lets try the tests first18:17
Jaffadragorn: hehe18:17
dwdjonek: Testing? Feh. That's what alphas are *for*...18:17
kenderJaffa, in maemo, there is any special "official" develop group or something?18:17
keesj500 is a lot I would say , if you look at the different people on irc, garage and the mailing list18:17
Jaffajonek: I'd be happy to help (although I'm probably more interested in Java SE, rather than phoneME - but then again, lots of apps for ME)18:17
danielslle: surprising, really ;)18:17
kenderkeesj, yes, most of us, are in those all18:18
dwdkeesj: Yeah, but as Jaffa has suggested, I'd expect them to offer the discounts to lots of prominent people for the marketing/developer-mindshare boost.18:18
Jaffakender: Yes, in Nokia somewhere. I don't *think* anyone outside Nokia's got svn access to any open components yet18:18
JaffaBut perhaps not Mike Cane this time ;-)18:18
lledaniels: yeah, I'm shocked how skipping a nights sleep has this kind of effect.18:18
kenderJaffa, how many  are them?18:18
danielslle: still in the office?18:18
Jaffakender: In Nokia, working on Maemo? No idea.18:18
dwdkeesj: After all, they did more or less precisely this at IETF67. (Or was it 66? I forget now).18:19
lledaniels: no, home already, nothing to do, no laptop, pc or working user accounts18:19
kenderJaffa, what would you do? wait? do you think that we have any chance?18:19
danielslle: oh, fair enough18:19
lledaniels: so a relatively nice day at the office18:19
lledaniels: not too hectic18:19
danielslle: sounds better than trying to get (#@$ video to comply18:19
dragornJaffa: Damn you, now I'm mighty tempted to port herc over just to see how long it takes to boot a 390 image18:19
Jaffakender: I've no idea. I can't afford a full price one, so waiting's easy for me :-/18:20
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Jaffakender: we've also not been told when ppl should expect the email (Ari said "very soon"). A cynic could say they're hoping the really desperate developers will buy one at full price in the first week, so they'll wait ;-)18:20
kenderJaffa, well, I'm going to get one, this week if I can, but...if they say, that we can get one cheap...I don't know what to do18:22
Jaffakender: if you bought one full price, then got a discount code, you could always sell the first one and still have a very cheap N80018:22
Disconnect14 day returns policy...18:23
kenderJaffa, hehehe18:23
kenderDisconnect, ?18:23
JaffaSomeone in Nokia support is quite clear on no OS 2007 for 770:
Disconnectif you get a code just return the retail one. "I thought it was a phone." ;)18:24
kenderJaffa, any idea about how they are going to manage to know who is developer?18:24
JaffaTarot cards.18:24
* Jaffa shrugs18:24
JaffaSorry, no idea :)18:24
danielsJaffa: just quietly, i wouldn't put too much weight on someone who starts every sentence with 'i expect' and 'i think', tbh.18:24
danielskender: by seeing who's participated in the maemo community and done stuff?18:24
dragornkender: Presumably looking at OSS projects and seeing who is doing maemo stuff already18:25
Jaffadaniels: :) His argument didn't particularly sound very well based in reality18:25
kenderdragorn, but, for example, I haven't got the 770, I'm going to be a maemo developer (I wish) you think I can be considered as a maemo developer?18:25
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* mgedmin found the file descriptor leakage source in fbreader18:26
danielsJaffa: (look at the last post on that page, f.e.)18:26
Jaffadaniels: indeed18:27
dragornkender: I would have absolutely no idea.  Considering no info has been posted about how they're going to select developers, I'd say trying to hack the system is pretty pointless at the moment.  If you've already got an established OSS project your chances are probably higher than if you have nothing, but no-one is providing selection criteria.  Relax.18:27
JaffaWarning: holding breath can result in asphyxiation.18:27
dragorn(and by "hack the system" i mean "hack the selection process", not saying that hacking on the n800 is pointless.  Incase anyone felt like misinterpreting me. :P )18:28
keesjhmm points to the n80 do I see an SQL query?18:28
kenderdragorn, yeah, I'm agree, I was just asking18:28
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kenderJaffa, hehehe18:28
dragornkender: I imagine if they make the criteria public it'll be well known as soon as they do18:28
kendernice :)18:28
keesjIt really feels like it is very hard to do things right in open-source world,18:30
keesj(as company that is)18:30
dragornThere are a lot of high-strung people gunning for the slightest misstep, true.  There are also a lot of companies that don't do a very good job, of course.18:31
jtokashI've got to go and I'm not sure if this info has already been mentioned on the channel.  The CPU for the n800 has been added to the faq in the wiki.18:31
Jaffakeesj: It's certainly harder if you've got hardware you want to sell alongside it. Software roadmaps become a lot harder to release as they reveal product plans. Which makes it hard to get a community working in the same direction18:31
waiteA Co wanting to work in the OSS community needs to have OSS devels be the "interface" By that I mean the devels need to understand the reactionary nature of OSS.18:32
jonek*whee* Joneks770:~/phoneME# bin/cvm -cp HelloWorld says: Hello world. !!!18:32
Jaffajonek: fantastic!18:32
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Jaffajonek: what's the startup time like from pressing enter to the msg appearing?18:32
jonekJaffa: instantly18:33
waiteThe impt thing and the thing Nokia is doing a good job at is balancing biz needs with empowering the community. I think Nokia has been superior at that18:33
Jaffajonek: Oooh, that's promising.18:33
joneknow I'll run more tests18:34
Jaffajonek: you'll have to document the build process in the maemo wiki if nowhere else.18:34
waiteYou cannot take take take and expect it to work, but with sharing comes the barbs of unfiltered devel-devel conversation18:34
kenderJaffa, how the do with the 700? (the developer program I mean)18:35
Jaffakender: I missed it (came to the party too late), but they asked for applications (it's still there on the bottom of front page)18:35
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jonekok there seem to be problems: the testsuite suspends itself :-/18:39
jonekon linux-i386 the testsuite behaves differnt18:40
jonekI think there was something in the phoneME forums... any phoneME experts here?18:41
jonekthere have to be some of them arround here somewhere - Chris Plummer from Sun told me that there are some other guys working on a phoneME for the 770, too18:43
dwdjonek: Several people on the list have murmured about doing it.18:45
robtaylorjonek: know if anyon'es planning on adding some open source jazelle usage to phoneME?18:46
dwdjonek: If you've got something working at least in the x86 scratchbox target, I'd publicise that on the list and see who emerges from the woodwork.18:46
jonekdwd: I compiled outside of sbox using the sbox arm toolchain as jdk1.4.2 is needed for the build.18:49
llejonek: good to hear that it worked out18:50
dwdjonek: Ah, okay... Do you get an armel binary out of it, then?18:50
jonekrobtaylor: is an open source jazelle available??18:50
joneklle: yeah18:50
jonekdwd: yes - I ran the tests on a 770 :-)18:51
Jaffajonek: so using x86 host's standard JDK and using /scratchbox/..../...armel.../... as the cross-compiler for phoneME's build system?18:51
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jonekJaffa: exactly18:51
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JaffaNeat. I'm impressed it built something which ran at all ;-)18:51
dwdjonek: Oh, yes, you said. Well, I'd definitely stick it somewhere, and post a URL and some instructions to the list, or at least brag about it there. Hell, if people can brag about porting a poker game, I'm sure you should brag about J2ME.18:52
jonekI think there is the most difficult part of the job still to be done: anything GUI related :)18:53
robtaylorjonek: no, it'd need a bit of RE to write one ;)18:54
Jaffajonek: have you seen from poking around in the source if it uses Gtk as a native peer?18:55
jonekas I understood phoneME's available documentation so far there is currently only qt support in the tree18:55
JaffaAh. That could be "fun".18:55
jonekbut the docs are _complex_18:57
jonekand not complete18:57
jonek <- see here19:01
keesjjonek, j2me gui can not be that hard. I have helped fixing bugs in me4se (j2me on j2se) and the code is really quite small19:03
dwdjonek: I like the "I won't go into detail about this [...]"19:04
keesjbut that is cldc1.1/midp2. I don't know all the specs for j2me19:04
jonekkeesj: ic... will have a look19:05
jonekhave to leave soon for my karate training - more info tomorrow19:05
keesjthat would really only need a plain canvas19:06
jonekJaffa: my phoneme-advanced-mr1/src/share/personal/native/awt only contains a qt dir :-( but maybe MR2 will provide others19:08
keesj also provides a java based gui.19:09
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jonekmore to read on phoneME:
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keesjjonek, it's nice to see a bit of the internal of j2me19:27
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dushkoWhat is phoneMe exactly?19:28
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Jaffadushko: Java Mobile Edition - ie. mobile phone games, applications etc.19:29
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dushkoJaffa: That's not j2me?19:29
Aleksandyr_PhoneMe ~= j2me19:31
Jaffadushko: Java 2 has been replaced with Java 5, so the '2' bit didn't make sense19:31
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Aleksandyr_PhoneME advanced is closer to what we think of when we think of a jre19:33
Aleksandyr_PhoneME feature is a j2me distribution for a device, including midlet manager tools and such19:33
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dballesterhow can affect to develop/maintenance of n770 with the launch of the new n800 ?19:46
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Jaffalo c0ffee20:01
c0ffeedid i miss the developer program?20:01
JaffaHopefully not!20:01
JaffaNo-one's admitted to having one if we have.20:02
c0ffeethat's really mean20:03
bedboiehehe, everyone is talking about the developer program20:03
c0ffeenokia isnt20:03
tkoI understood it's "don't call us, we'll call you" type20:04
danielsjust relax.  it'll happen when it happens.20:04
danielscorporations move at the speed of, well, corporations, sometimes. :)20:04
dragornBet everyone is sorry it got mentioned at all at this point :P20:04
c0ffeeit's just that i might not get any sleep till then20:04
* Jaffa 's relaxed - I've been working from home today and my wife's cooked a lovely spaghetti bolognese which we'll have with a bottle of wine :)20:04
c0ffeewhich reminds me20:05
c0ffeei should get home quickly20:05
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dragornJaffa: $oldjob just replaced a 4-way z900 with a 1-way z9 and it went completely tits up.  Figured you might get a laugh. :P20:05
Jaffadragorn: indeed :)20:05
dragornJaffa: "just" as in "today" :P20:06
Jaffadragorn: betcha glad it's $oldjob20:06
dragornJaffa: Damn skippy20:06
bedboiJaffa: my girlfriend is cooking some pasta with "sugo alle melanzane" :)20:07
Jaffabedboi: I have absolutely no idea what that is, but it sounds nice ;-)20:08
|tbb|anyone got xchat sound package installed?20:08
bedboiJaffa: pasta with tomato and aubergine20:09
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bedboiJaffa: btw in italian sounds nicer20:09
bedboikoen: it is not "zucchine"20:11
bedboiaubergine is
bedboiahaha there is a link to Melanzane alla parmigiana20:13
koenthe purple one20:13
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bedboione of my favourite dishes20:13
bedboiyep the purple one20:13
||cweggplant is hard to make taste good20:14
||cwI've some I liked, and lots I hated20:14
bedboi||cw: i'm sure you don't know how to cook them :)20:14
dragornolive oil, roast in oven, maybe some garlic.20:14
||cwi definatly don't, and lots of other epople don't either20:14
NickDedragorn: no talk about food at lunch time while at work20:15
||cwa friends mom makes an excent eggplant lasanga though20:15
bedboilasagne are really good20:15
bedboiyesterday my gf cooked them20:15
||cwspeaking of food, it's lunch time20:16
bedboibtw there are some little tricks to make eggplant taste good20:16
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bedboiyou have to cut the top and the bottom and put a lot of salt20:17
bedboisome water will pour out20:17
bedboiand the eggplant will taste less bitter20:17
bedboiit's a grandmother trick20:17
||cwif you can link me to a good recipie I might try it, the wife likes even poorly cooked eggplant and she would love it if she could make it so the kids and I would eat it20:18
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bedboi||cw: i can tell you one20:22
bedboido you have tomato sauce?20:22
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ntrsI am having a problem with n80020:23
jaekthe 770 and n800 has a dualcore cpu?20:23
bedboido you have one?20:23
bedboijaek: they have a dsp onboard20:23
bedboiah, don't know for n80020:23
jaekbedboi, oh, so just sound+cpu on one chip?20:24
koenno, cpu + dsp20:24
ntrseverything was working fine yesterday. Now today I press the button to start it and it just keeps rebooting after the initial NOKIA screen. The blue bar on the bottom of the screen goes almost all the way to the right and then reboots.20:24
jaekkoen, bedboi what kind of dsp?20:25
jaekntrs, you get yours at compusa i presume?20:25
* jaek is tempted to spend his money he saved up to buy a wii on the n80020:25
danielsntrs: what did you do to it? :)20:25
jaeknintendo wii?20:26
ntrsdaniels, not muchm, just installed xterm, bash, ssh and such. I also changed the root and user passwords.20:26
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NickDentrs: you can still reflash that thing20:27
NickDeif there were an OS2007 image out :P20:27
ntrsNickDe, how do I do that?20:27
NickDebefore one messes with their itnernet tablet one should make sure to know how to reflash it....20:28
NickDethere is documentation on maemo20:28
DisconnectNickDe: there is a windows flasher20:28
Disconnectntrs: probably banh20:28
Disconnecter bash20:28
NickDeDisconnect: thats right which will auto install the latest20:29
NickDeDisconnect: I don't have any windows computers myself. its all gentoo over here20:29
ntrsnow the screen just keeps turning on and off with the initial NOKIA scren.20:29
Disconnectntrs: try enabling r&d mode20:29
NickDegood point20:29
ntrsDisconnect, bash? Why would bash cause the problem?20:29
bedboiwhat's new in n800 ?20:29
mgedminchanging the user's default shell might cause a problem20:29
ntrsDisconnect, how do I enable r&d mode?20:29
|tbb|is it possible to import kismet gps data?20:30
ntrshmm, it is probaby bash20:30
|tbb|in maemo-mapper20:30 will be providing 500 devices at a price of 99 euros per device to selected open source developers.20:30
Disconnectntrs: grab the flasher, check the wiki (fyi flasher-2.0 worked for r&d mode)20:30
jaekwhat do you have to do qualify for that?20:30
ntrsDisconnect, don't I have to have the original OS2007 in order to reflash?20:30
Disconnectjaek: /topic20:30
ntrsThere is a flasher 3.020:31
Disconnectthere wasn't one yesterday20:31
bedboijaek: read the topic20:31
ntrsDisconnect, I am not sure where it is though, I am looking for it20:31
ntrsDisconnect, don't I have to have the original OS2007 in order to reflash?20:31
ntrsWhere do I find OS2007?20:31
Disconnectntrs: you aren't reflashing, you are enabling r&d mode20:32
Disconnectand read the topic20:32
danielsntrs: if it just keeps turning off at the nokia screen, try plugging it in to charge20:32
ntrsdaniels, It is plugged in and it still does that.20:33
ntrsDisconnect, the topic says nothing about the r&d mode. What will r&d mode let me do?20:33
bedboiwhat's n800 the antenna for?20:33
Disconnectstops it rebooting. read the wiki page on flasher20:33
Disconnectbedboi: no antenna20:33
nomisbedboi: which antenna? The stub on the side is the camera.20:34
bedboiso, mainly the only difference is the camera20:34
mgedminit might stop the rebooting (if you disable the lifeguard reset flag), but I doubt it will fix the underlying problem20:35
nomisbedboi: + faster processor, + more ram, + 2 real SD slots, - cover20:35
Disconnect...and new cpu, dual full size mem slots, 2x ram, 2x flash......20:35
bedboithat's bad20:35
jaekhow much faster is this cpu?20:35
nomisbedboi: yep.20:35
|tbb|in mhz 11020:35
Whizthat missing cover could be the reason for me to not upgrade :/20:35
Disconnect(and it won't take pics so.. camera is kinda a waste)20:36
bedboihow you prevent it from being destroyed20:36
jaekhow much faster does the system feel?20:36
Disconnectbedboi: magic20:36
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bedboiDisconnect: stupid stuff20:36
pahartikbedboi: biggest difference is Bluetooth 2.020:36
Taksupports fullsize SD, but only up to 2gb...20:36
tigertDisconnect: well, I want to use it as webcam20:37
tigertits not in waste20:37
roopeThere's an external pouch with the device.20:37
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nomistigert: do you know anything about the reasoning why they omitted the cover?20:38
Disconnecttigert: no apps for it was my point20:38
tigerteveryone is worrying about the cover20:38
tigertI have never used a cover on my 77020:38
tigertremember you poke the screen with a stick all day20:38
bedboii always use a cover20:38
tigertits meant for poking20:38
* Disconnect got a brando cover for the 77020:38
koentigert: I use the cover to reset bluetooth all the time20:38
tigertthe fabric pouch is good for pocket protection20:38
bedboiyep but i put it in my pocket20:38
nomistigert: the cover enables me to throw the 770 in my bag. With all kinds of pointy stuff in it.20:38
koentigert: I hope the n800's bluetooth is less buggy20:38
Takthe fabric pouch is a PITA20:38
pahartikbedboi: "biggest" as in "most significant" :)20:39
tigertnomis: put duct tape around the fabric pouch and it will be fine :)20:39
bedboibtw, i think that the cover is really important20:39
tigertkoen: I hope so too20:39
nomistigert: (and how do you put the N800 in standby mode, closing all the connections btw.?)20:39
Whiztigert, I mostly carry my 770 in my backback with lots of small and pointy objects and i dont want to carry my backback as it contained something that will break if I breathe..20:39
tigertbedboi: I am sure there will be some accessories with a cover20:39
tigertI carry my 770 in my butt pocket of jeans20:40
bedboiWhiz: yep, same thing here20:40
tigertworks nicely20:40
guerbytigert, koen bluetooth works waaaaay better with 2006.220:40
tigertjust dedicate a pocket for it20:40
tigertin your bag or jacket20:40
guerbyjust ordered a nokia 80020:40
guerbyeh eh20:40
bedboitigert: it's not an excuse  :)20:40
tigertthe screen is not that fragile anyway20:40
WhizMy ass is on the same level than my knees.. so that if i sit down -> tablet would break :)20:40
tigertWhiz: when you sit down, you take it out to play wiht it anyway20:40
jaeknobody wants even a scratch on that lustrous screen20:40
roopeThere's this stand around the deviec. the id for a stand + cover would be really hard.20:41
tigertI threw my 770 cover away20:41
Whiztigert, maybe I'm just weird as I dont play with my toys all the time :)20:41
tigertwhich sucks a bit20:41
tigertsince its a company device20:41
tigertand I have no idea where the cover is :)20:41
bedboii never used my ipaq naked20:41
roopehard as in fugly looking.20:41
tigert but I use my 770 a LOT20:41
bedboiand i enjoy the n770 cover20:41
koenguerby: 'better', not 'good'20:41
bedboiit's really cool20:41
jaeknaked is nice, but i dont want anything touching my screen but the stylus20:42
tigertwith greasy fingers, with a pen, with a pencil, with the stylus20:42
tigertwith car keys sometimes20:42
tigertits not scratched20:42
tigertsince the touchscreen is made for that20:42
ntrsMy N800's screen keeps flashing at the NOKIA screen. Can anyone help with either showing me how to do the r&d mode or how to reflash the device?20:42
danielsit would be a poor touchscreen if it wasn't20:42
tigertyou are worrying too much20:42
guerbykoen, worked perfectly with my bluetooth GPS at least (never tried GPRS though may be that's what you're complaining about)20:42
tigertof course, I would too if I had bought one :P20:42
tigertbut I can assure, that after a good amount of abuse its not broken20:43
akkImpressive ... my Clie screen gets scratched even from using the stylus or fingernails. I'd never use car keys.20:43
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jaekwell, i have a nintendo ds and the screen has tons of scratches from using the back of pens and fingernails20:43
koenguerby: it still locks up with maemo-mapper sometimes20:43
tigertakk: I dont use car keys a LOT to do that20:43
koenguerby: but yes, it was a lot worse with 2006.120:43
tigertbut I mean20:43
tigertI dont worry much20:43
tigertits pretty tough stuff20:43
guerbykoen, what kind of locks up?20:44
tigertsure it shows normal wear but nothing is visible when I use the device20:44
jaeki have a screen protector so that should help some more20:44
tigertand I think if I cleaned it up well, a lot of is just grease patterns20:44
koenguerby: bluetooth lockup20:44
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koenguerby: requiring a bluetooth reset20:44
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npriceAnyone know if the N800 is available everywhere yet?20:48
SuperQtomorow supposedly20:48
* pahartik has not noticed Bluetooth problem with Nokia 770, but sometimes Nokia 6310i (Bluetooth/GPRS) gets stuck and requires shutdown20:48
glass_a lot of bt phones need that occasionally...20:49
glass_especially in heavy use20:49
npricei know apple is making a huge product launch tomorrow20:49
npricei don't know whether i should get an n800 if i can find one20:49
npriceor just wait20:49
tigertpahartik: a lot of times cycling bluetooth off and on in the phone helps20:49
npricei need a new phone too lol20:49
ntrsSorry to ask, but can anyone help?20:49
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tigertlooks like symbian is buggy also with bluetooth20:49
tigertntrs: the windows flasher tool should help?20:49
glass_you can always wait a day.. but apple releasing anything that would be n800 area is unlikely20:49
tigertrumors are about iPhone20:50
tigertwe'll see20:50
tigertif it is something geo-aware20:50
ntrstigert, do you have a URL for the windows flasher, for n800 hopefully?20:50
glass_iphone rumor is hardly new20:50
npriceyeah, i could use a cell phone, i fell asleep with mine in my pocket last night20:50
npriceand it is dead now20:50
jaeki have a limited gprs connection with only a handful open ports... is there a way to automatically use some socks5 client when the bluetooth connection is established?20:51
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akkIs there any way to interrupt the app manager when it's stuck in dpkg?20:51
|tbb|anyone knows it is possible to import kismet gps data to maemo-mapper20:52
tigertntrs: not sure. I remember someone mentioning it here20:52
akkIt's been stuck for about 10 minutes now, and I'm wondering if I need to power off or something.20:52
tigert|tbb|: maemomapper has sqlite POI database20:52
tigertI guess you could generate it20:52
lkravenif anyone has both an n800 and n770 handy, i would be interested to know whether or not the screen is appreciably different, since my primary use for the 770 has been as an ebook reader20:52
tigertakk: hold the esc key (the "undo" arrow)20:52
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lkraventhe 770 has a shallow view angle, which means when held close, parts of the black background would "shimmer" and it drove me nuts... the touch overlay is also visible as a color-shimmer-- and I would upgrade in a heartbeat if the 800 didn't share this issue20:53
akktigert: No response (held it about 30 sec)20:54
tigertakk: hmm20:54
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tigertwhat is it doing?20:54
tigertinstalling or downloading?20:54
mgedminbut often harmless20:55
tigerttry tapping the x on the corner?20:55
|tbb|tigert any idea how?20:55
mgedminakk: installing apps sometimes took ages on my 77020:55
tigert|tbb|: search google for maemo mapper POI20:55
Tak30s isn't *that* long ime20:55
mgedminI left it alone, and it finished successfully20:55
tigertthe patch writer had a website about the format20:55
TakI agree with mgedmin20:55
akkNo response. It doesn't respond to tapping on menu icons over on the left, either.20:55
mgedminwrites to flash appear to be *very* cpu intensive20:55
mgedminso intensive that it doesn't even react to the power button20:55
Takhas anybody tried xmame, fceu, or vba on n800 yet?20:55
akkmgedmin: I think this is a pretty small app, and the progress bar hasn't moved in 10-15 min.20:55
tigert|tbb|: I wonder if this is the patch that is integrated:20:56
akkNo response to the x either20:56
tigertbut anyway:
mgedminakk: what's the app?20:56
npriceis hildon using xorg or something else?20:56
akkmgedmin: the sudoku game that's in the app repository ... hold on, looking for the link20:56
mgedminnever tried it20:56
mgedminI used to experience long delays when upgrading fbreader, though20:57
mgedminthe .deb is like half a meg20:57
Takheh, the xmame deb is like 10M20:57
akkfbreader did take a long time to install20:57
akkbut nothing like this, and the progress indicator moved, iirc20:57
tigertakk: it shouldnt take this long20:57
mgedminthe strange thing is that sometimes it is fine, while sometimes it gets stuck with the progress bar not moving for several minutes20:58
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mgedminalthough 15 minutes seems excessive20:58
mgedmincan you ssh into it?20:58
tigertplease ask about this on the devel list20:58
akkmgedmin: I haven't managed to install ssh yet.20:59
mgedminI once ran vmstat from an ssh session during such an installer freeze20:59
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mgedminit showed 0 in all CPU columns (user/system/idle/iowait), but many thousands of interrupts per second21:00
mgedminerr, the idle column wasn't 0 of course21:01
mgedminI was just surprised that the cpu registered as idle rather than iowait while it was writing to flash21:01
c0ffeelet's pretend i'll get a developer device and install the new scratchbox then21:01
MDKhah, ces speech starts21:02
MDKworks in gxine21:02
TakI'd like to pretend that too...21:02
akkOh, wow! it woke up.21:02
MDKferulo: mms:// in front if for xine21:03
akkActually, looks like it rebooted. No apps are running.21:03
tigertakk: !21:03
|tbb|tigert was this url 4 me21:03
tigert|tbb|: affirm21:03
tigertakk: lifeguard watchdog reset it seems21:03
feruloMDK: dude, I'm using N800 ! :)21:03
MDKferulo: it works there?21:03
akkThat app doesn't show up in "Show installed apps" (no surprise)21:04
* MDK is totally astonished21:04
tigertCould not read packet header: Success21:05
tigertsays totem21:05
tigertyay for error messages21:05
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MDKtigert: forget totem21:05
MDKit's gstreamer ;)21:05
tigertdid already21:05
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k-sanyone worked with playbin in new hw?21:06
tigertmplayer shows colorful gray garbage21:07
akkWhat's the recommended ssh? openssh or dropbear?21:07
tigertapt-get install ssh21:08
roope   here's btw live nokia ces webcast, just starting.21:08
MDKyeah, just starting21:08
akktigert: It doesn't show up in application manager, of course, so I'm installing everything by navigating to the .debs on the app catalog web page.21:09
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pahartikroope: URL to stream?21:09
MDKpahartik: rtsp://
MDKpahartik: or mms:// in front21:10
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roopeit's probably windows-only stuff.21:10
tigertmplayer works in ubuntu21:11
tigertits wmv21:11
* tigert groans at the accent21:11
Jaffartsp works in Real Player in Mac OS X21:11
roopeopk is no steve jobs. :)21:11
pahartikMDK: VLC does not seem to like either... oh well21:11
tigertroope: no shit :)21:11
JaffaTalking of which, MacWorld keynote tomorrow, IIRC?21:12
MDKgotta love the finnish accent21:12
* Jaffa can't help but think of the Muppets, sorry ;-)21:12
akkOkay, I'll go with openssh since nobody has an opinion21:12
ssvbtigert: sorry, I probably missed part of the discussion, did you try to run mplayer on N800?21:13
* mgedmin never used dropbear and is quite happy with openssh21:13
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tigertssvb: no21:14
|tbb|tigert the link doesnt work21:15
lkraventiger, how's the screen on that N800?  Is it pretty much the same as the 770?21:15
MDKlkraven: it's way better quality21:15
timelesstigert: so, i just bricked two devices21:15
MDKlkraven: same res, but much richer colours/brighter21:15
Aleksandyr|workMDK: does it still have the rainbow effect?21:15
* timeless had a very productive day21:15
MDKAleksandyr|work: no21:15
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tigert|tbb|: hmm21:16
MDKAleksandyr|work: if by "rainbow" you call those little "dots" in rainbow colors you can see when looking closely21:16
akktigert: Aha -- I didn't know about "red pill mode". Now I have an ssh package (though still no xterm or osso-xterm)21:16
tigert|tbb|: < this doesnt work?21:16
* timeless can't live w/o redpill21:16
ssvbtigert, ok, I see, then I will wait for some N800 owner willing to test mplayer to show up :)21:16
Disconnectssvb: old one is nasty evil colors21:17
* Tak is in the same boat21:17
Disconnectat least playing the n90 clip it came with21:18
lkravensweet, i'll go buy one today21:18
lkraveni usually use it as an ebook reader21:18
Disconnectlooks like it is trying, but not well21:18
ssvbDisconnect: I was told that pixel doubling does not work on N800, can you try some 640x480 video (so that pixel doubling will not be used)?21:18
pahartikMDK: and "Video resolution not supported" from Video Player of Maemo 2.121:19
Disconnectgot one in particular? haven't got anything much here21:19
Takargh @ no pixel doubling21:19
Aleksandyr|was pixel doubling ever a legitimate feature, or was it always an undocumented?21:20
Aleksandyr|I seem to recall it changing status at one point21:21
ssvbDisconnect: you can use mencoder to transcode video to get some clip for testing21:21
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ntrsOk, I think I am getting somewhere.21:21
ntrsUsing the official N800 flasher from nokia for windows21:21
ntrsupgrading now to 2007SE_2.2006.51-621:22
pahartikdwd: oh, I tried to reply ~5 hours ago but did not remember that FreeNode blocks private messages...21:23
mgedminis the windows flasher a single huge .exe file21:24
ssvbDisconnect: just run 'mencoder -vo scale=640:480 input.avi -o output.avi', mencoder should be available in most linux distributions, also you can download windows version from
mgedminor is the firmware in a separate .bin file?21:24
NickDeDisconnect: I can say I am encoding a movie to 400x240 at 256kb/s video 128 kb/s audio and it plays great21:24
ssvbDisconnect: oops, use '-vf' instead of '-vo'21:25
greentuxsomebody checked usb host mode and powered?21:26
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Disconnecttesting now21:27
ntrsThe upgrade finished ok, but after a reboot the device still does not work properly.21:27
dwdpahartik: Oh, does it?21:27
mgedmindwd: yes, if you're not registered with nickserv21:27
ntrsAfter I press the ON button, I see the NOKIA screen for about two-three seconds then it turns itself off.21:27
NickDentrs: you removed the mattery to right?21:27
mgedminntrs: could be an empty battery21:28
ntrsYes, I tried removing the battery too21:28
mgedminplug in a charger21:28
mgedminor maybe you keep holding the ON button21:28
mgedminif you do not release it, it will turn on and then turn off after a few more seconds21:29
ntrsPlugged in the charger, just turns off and on, off and on, off and on21:29
mgedminbut I think that's more like 10 more seconds21:29
mgedminoh, wow :(21:29
pahartikmgedmin: I am registered, but nickserv disagrees with my notes about password...21:29
mgedminpahartik: imposter! :)21:29
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Disconnect640x480 still fubar21:30
Disconnectcolors are trashed and its about half-size21:30
pahartikmgedmin: damn that21:30
ssvbDisconnect: ok, thanks, one more test, you can run mplayer with '-vo sdl' it should at least work21:30
ntrsAny ideas about my problem? The device no longer starts? I even did a complete reflash with the official update from NOKIA.21:31
Takxv is supposed to work too21:31
tigertntrs: battery empty?21:31
ssvbTak: yes, I know, I just wanted to get some more details about current mplayer state on N800 :)21:32
Disconnectno xv21:32
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jon1012hello everybody21:32
ntrstigert, no, If I keep the home button pressed and turn it on, it stays on and I can successfully do the flash upgrade.21:32
jon1012bora won't be backported to 770 ? :(21:32
Disconnectsdl works but slow (as expected)21:32
NickDentrs: no idea what you did man but thats screwed up21:32
tigertntrs: tried removing battery for a bit?21:33
NickDehe did21:33
Disconnectjon1012: read the topic21:33
ssvbDisconnect: mplayer was compiled without xv support as there was no libxv preinstalled on 770 by default and it did not work21:33
ntrstigert, yes, I did21:33
Disconnectntrs: r&d mode on?21:33
Disconnectssvb: yah21:33
jon1012Disconnect: that's why I said that21:33
mgedminntrs: maybe you put it back wrong?21:33
ntrsIsn't the reflash supposed to fix whatever I did?21:33
mgedminthe 770 will not from the charger with the battery taken out21:33
ntrsThe device is now on on bettery power being reflashed again21:34
jon1012so 770 updates will continue but only critical flaws etc... no IT2007 for 770 ? :(21:34
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TakI didn't see anywhere it said "only critical flaws"21:35
jon1012well, no backport of it2007 planned means it2006 with some fixes only21:35
ntrsI just reflashed again to the latest version21:35
Disconnectjon1012: how do you figure?21:36
jon1012hey, that's what the title is saying21:36
jon1012the channel's topic21:36
Disconnectno, thats not.. thats what you are assuming. (consider symbian. s90 doesn't mean s60 is dead. or even slowed down.)21:37
ntrssame problem, with charger on, keeps turning on and off. With battery power only, it just turns off after a couple of seconds on the NOKIA screen.21:37
jon1012so, it2007 will be backported for 770 ?21:37
mgedminjon1012: not necessarily; you can backport useful features (e.g. the alarm framework) and ignore useless features (no webcam on the 770)21:37
Disconnectlets take it apart piece by piece. "770 updates will continue."  .. thought that was clear, but i guess not.21:38
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Disconnect"but bora is not backported" ... is not. present tense. (and given the cpu speeds, you probably don't want it anyway..)21:39
tkosomeone said something about macworld? :)21:39
ntrsbesides a reflash, does anyone know of anything else I could try to fix this problem?21:39
Takwhat I got out of it is: updates will continue to be released for 770, but bora is a separate branch that will be targeted to n800 and will not be backported, so that we don't have to maintain two sets of hardware speed hacks21:40
Disconnectntrs: r&d mode21:40
ntrsHow do I turn r&d on?21:40
ntrsI have the windows flasher from nokia21:40
Disconnectntrs: need a linux/mac box.21:40
Disconnectntrs: uses the flasher app (2 or 3)21:41
ntrsI have a mac box21:41
ntrs(2 or 3)?21:41
Disconnectget the osx commandline flasher21:41
Disconnect has info on r&d mode21:42
ntrsOk,what do I do after I get r&d mode going?21:42
NickDentrs: turn it on21:43
NickDeand see what happens?21:43
ntrsThe problem is it doesn't boot It just turns off.21:44
ntrsOk, I will try that now21:44
* Disconnect will be back later. my 800 works and i don't feel like arguing anymore before lunch21:44
Takgood idea, it'll give you indigestion21:45
ntrsI am sorry guys, I am just trying to get this thing fixed, which broke for apparently no reason.21:46
pahartikdwd: I tried to create configuration on ACAP server but it did not work... Polymer and Telomer just hang21:46
koenr&d doesn't buy you much, you want to disable the lifeguard reset21:47
koen(haven't read backlog)21:47
ntrskoen, how do i disable the lifeguard reset?21:47
koenusing the flasher tool21:48
dwdpahartik: Oh. That really ought to work.21:48
koenflasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset21:48
ntrsOk, let me try that.21:49
ntrsOh, there is no flasher for MAC on Intel? only PPC?21:49
jon1012Disconnect: do you know i there is a way to get the current n800 graphic theme on the 770 ?21:49
jon1012s/i /if/21:49
dwdpahartik: Ah. Roaming configurations mean that an IMAP server of "localhost" isn't a good idea. :-)21:51
Jaffajon1012: theoretically, but there have been theme changes in post-OS 2006 releases (e.g. Sardine and Herring) which are presumably in OS 2007, so it won't *exactly* just be a case of copying stuff from one device to another21:51
koenntrs: no idea, I only used flasher on my old powerbook, not on my macbookpro21:51
jon1012Jaffa: and thoses changes will be back-ported ?21:52
danielsssvb: dude, leave pixel doubling alone, just use xv21:52
Disconnectjon1012: sure, you gonna do it..?21:52
jon1012Disconnect: I don't have sufficiant knownledge of those systems to do it21:53
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jon1012Disconnect: my knowledge domain is more web (xhtml/css/javascript) and python devel21:53
tigertjon1012: the theme is almost compatible, some stuff , mostly controlpanel will be borked21:54
jon1012tigert: ok, thx21:54
Jaffajon1012: well, you can get those changes on your 770 by running Sardine now; or you just wait for more N800s to get into circulation and see if a similar theme is created for the 770, *or* you hope that OS 2007 is released for the 770.21:54
tigertand the top panel size has increased on N80021:54
ssvbdaniels: sure I will :)21:54
tigertyou can see the differences in hildon-theme-tools in sardine21:54
Jaffajon1012: ah, there you go - tigert's the expert :)21:54
danielshaha, web 2.0.  bingo!21:55
danielshe hsan't said 'synergy' yet, though.21:55
ntrskoen, it appears the macosx version works on Intel too21:55
NickDeI am a son of the web.09 days... good old days21:55
NickDeI miss VRML...21:55
NickDeI want to revive it so I can say it stinks all over again :P21:55
JaffaNickDe: it's remarkable how much like VRML stuff Second Life looks :)21:55
dwdNickDe: Did you ever get a VRML browser to work?21:55
koenntrs: that's good to know, thanks21:55
NickDedwd: never21:56
NickDeback in 199621:56
dwdNickDe: Me neither.21:56
dwdNickDe: I used to try every couple of months, in the vain hope of seeing what all the hype was about.21:56
* Jaffa did on a cover CD once, but had no Internet access so didn't do a lot with it :-/21:56
NickDedwd: want to know what the big secret about VRML was?21:56
NickDeif you held down control-shift-s you would see a message that said "we will be filing for chapter 11 in 2006... - your pals at SGI"21:57
jon1012tigert: thx :)21:57
dwdNickDe: Heh.21:57
jon1012tigert: so, let's hope that it2007 is released for the 77021:57
mgedminooh, vrml was fun at the university21:58
roopeI remember Alphaworld.21:58
mgedminnever found a good linux vrml viewer, though21:58
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mgedminwhen you start scripting it with javascript, vrml becomes a fun toy21:59
mgedmin... for 15 minutes21:59
NickDemgedmin: I have to admit I didn't start screwing with Linux until atleast 199821:59
ntrskoen, so do I just use these options: --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset21:59
mgedminNickDe: I didn't start screwing with VRML until 2001 or so :)21:59
|tbb|i dont get it how to import kismet gps data into m-mapper22:00
koenntrs: yes, that should do it22:00
|tbb|any1 done that be422:00
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ntrskoen, no need for --enable-rd-mode?22:00
Jaffalo _matthias_22:01
koenntrs: not as far as I know22:01
JaffaAh, tidying toys duty calls.22:01
NickDemgedmin: ah22:01
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* _matthias_ was the stupiedest today22:02
_matthias_i was in an open book exam without book22:02
Disconnect_matthias_: lol22:02
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* Disconnect was stupider yesterday22:03
Disconnectstupid non-debian scratchbox directions.. don't tar xzf -C /  the rootstrap (doh)22:03
Disconnectblew up my mythtv box22:04
Disconnectdeciding if i want to fix it or rebuild it22:04
_matthias_yeah friend of mine managed to delete /etc on his mythtv box lately ;)22:04
ntrskoen, wow with this flag the n800 is booting up ok now. Now, how do I find out what the real problem is so that I can remove the flag and still be able to boot?22:05
Disconnect /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory22:05
mgedminI once did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda1 on a work server22:05
Disconnectnot so good.22:05
koenntrs: iirc there was some file in /proc, but I'm not sure22:05
AaronL2ntrs:  you can try dmesg, perhaps examining files in /var/logs22:05
Disconnect(busybox was installed fortunately so can probably just fix it)22:06
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ntrskoen, no, but do you think that it will not boot again if I remove the flag?22:06
mgedminkoen: /proc/bootreason and /var/lib/dsme/stats/*22:06
koenmgedmin: thanks22:07
koenntrs: no idea22:07
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Aleksandyr|AbiWord 2.4.6 + N800 news + #maemo + = no work getting done today :)22:25
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etrunkoAleksandyr|: do you mean Abiword for maemo?22:28
qgilpahartik: thanks for the Sonera tip (hours later, but I read it)  :)22:29
JaffaHang on... just noticed this on about features of Maemo 3.0: "New libraries to provide access to terminal features: Camera, Hildon input methods, Address book, UPNP, Alarms, GPS, and more ..."22:29
JaffaThere's scope for a built-in GPS on the N800?22:29
Juhazmaybe it's just some library helping use of external one22:30
Aleksandyr|etrunko: Yep.22:30
etrunkoAleksandyr|: where did you get it?22:30
Aleksandyr|etrunko: I managed to get 2.4.6 compiled --- it's a little bit faster22:30
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etrunkoAleksandyr|: i was talking to the abiword guys last week about it22:30
Aleksandyr|etrunko: but it still won't handle my resume =/22:30
etrunkoAleksandyr|: cool22:30
etrunkothey've released some packages, but there is a bug crashing it22:31
JaffaJuhaz: that's what I thought, but it specifically says "terminal features" (I suspect it's just a typo/wrong, though)22:31
etrunkoso they didn't release it to public22:31
Aleksandyr|hrm. I haven't seen the packages, but it seems quite stable except for one glaring issue22:31
Aleksandyr|it's only partially hildonized, so it attempts some nasty casts if you try to, say, print preview22:31
Aleksandyr|which lead to a hard crash.22:31
etrunkoAleksandyr: ok22:32
*** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | | New image: | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported"22:32
pahartikqgil: you are welcome22:32
Disconnectnew image available for the rest of us now :)22:32
etrunkoAleksandyr|: can you receive pvt messages?22:32
qgilwe will need a wiki page to write the long topic and then link here  :)22:32
Aleksandyr|etrunko: give me a second to figure out nickserv22:33
c0ffeedid i mention that scratchbox is one big mess22:33
etrunkoc0ffee: +122:33
etrunkowe've been calling it scarebox22:34
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Disconnectc0ffee: check my earlier comments about scratchbox mistakes22:34
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*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported"22:36
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Aleksandyrnote to self: read an irssi manual sometime.22:37
Disconnectstupid non-static flasher-3.022:37
cduvhas someone tried the new N800?22:37
JaffaSome have them.22:38
cduvhow is the new opera and Flash player?22:38
kenderDisconnect, the flasher isn't open source?22:38
Disconnectanyone at wanna build a static ver for those of us on amd64?22:38
mgedminkender: no it isn't22:38
Disconnectkender: nope22:38
kenderdoes anybody know why?22:39
Disconnect(or anyone that doesn't have exactly the same versions as the devs)22:39
Taka lot of things aren't open that it would make sense for them to be (wrt n(77|80)0)22:39
kenderOpera for example?22:40
Takwell, that's not nokia's problem22:40
feruloand flash is Adobe code22:40
kenderwhat more?22:40
Takbut, say, the flasher utility...22:40
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kendermaybe Skype in the future?22:42
* Disconnect ponders flashing w/ flasher-2022:42
TakI'm more thinking of apps and libraries specific to the 770 (and now 800) that are lacking in features and/or bugfixes22:43
Disconnectcool looks like that worked22:44
Disconnectmaybe not. kb went ancient-mac-style b&w22:45
ferenc/quit: good night22:45
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Disconnectcool auto-restore22:46
danielsfwiw, the flasher isn't open source because ti won't let it be released, as it contains protocol details22:54
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*** kender has joined #maemo22:54 if we sniff and publish the proto we can get it opened? ;)22:55
glass_then you could write your own flasher..22:55
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Disconnectglass_: easier to just abuse libusb (since 3.0 is dynamic)23:02
Disconnectltrace and gdb23:02
c0ffeeshould be easier to disassemble the flasher than finding something useful from the usb logs imho23:06
Disconnectis the keyboard open yet? want dvorak (switching back and forth is giving me headaches, since I just started learning it)23:06
c0ffeebut i also think it's more important to get open drivers for the wireless modules23:06
c0ffeesend a mail whining about scratchbox23:07
kenderthe wifi of the n800 is the same of the 770?23:07
Disconnectanyone try kismet on 800?23:07
kendermonitor mode?23:07
kenderaircrack? reinyect?23:08
Aleksandyrc0ffee: sniffing the usb logs is legal, disassembling the flasher is less so, IIRC23:08
kender disassembling the flasher is less so.... I think it's legal23:08
NickDekender: yes it is23:08
NickDewifi on n800 is same as 77023:08
c0ffeeit's legal23:08
NickDeit would seem23:08
kenderNickDe, nice23:08
NickDesame chip23:08
NickDealso I am sure Kismet would work just fine23:08
DisconnectAleksandyr: if i disassemble the flasher i can't write the new one23:08
NickDeor it would take Dragorn a day to polish for the n800 if it doesnt run already23:08
c0ffeeobjdump -D --demangle flasher-3.023:09
AleksandyrDisconnect: the whole cleanroom-implementation thing that I vaguely remember from the early days of personal computing :)23:09
trenkais there NNTP client for n800 ?23:09
c0ffeeida has problems with the plt23:09
bstockso should i bother to upgrade 770 from 2006.1 to 2006.2 or wait to see if something new will be released?23:09
NickDetrenka: PAN was ported to the 77023:09
Aleksandyrtrenka: pan was available for the 77023:09
Jaffatrenka: Sylpheed *might* work, but I've never tried NNTP and I dunno if it'll work on the N800 (the porting guide suggests everything needs a recompile, but comments from other users suggests that might be wrong(?))23:10
Aleksandyrbstock: next upgrade (2.3) will be out at the end of the month, supposedly23:10
c0ffeedaniels, what about a statement like "don't bother to check for mails from developer device program before xxth of january"? :)23:10
bstockhmm so i guess waiting would be smart... thanks23:10
koenxx of march23:10
koenxxx of 200723:10
Disconnect     backup/restore loses bt pairings23:11
Aleksandyrat this point I'd take a stardate.23:11
JaffaOr a phase of the moon23:11
Takand "if you haven't received one by xxth of june, you're not going to"23:11
ssvbDisconnect: can you test this experimental n800 mplayer package?
Aleksandyrat no point did they say all 500 would go out at the same time, too: perhaps it will be staggered?23:11
Disconnectssvb: couple mins23:11
JaffaAleksandyr: good point23:12
dragornDisconnect: built it, and if it doesn't work, get tcpdump running, throw the card in rfmon, and get me dumps, and I'll look.  If you do that by tomorrow, any fixes will make it into the next stable kismet release23:12
Disconnectkismet works23:12
dragornDisconnect: if you don't, then it'll go into svn23:12
AleksandyrJaffa: counterpoint being that it would be a really bad idea, come to think of it23:12
dragornawesome.  good to know.23:12
Disconnect770 ver ran out of the box23:12
danielsc0ffee: honestly, dude, i don't know who even does it, let alone when it'll be done23:12
kenderDisconnect, nice!23:12
ssvbDisconnect: better run it from xterm or ssh and watch for any error message, as I'm not sure whether it will work :)23:12
Disconnectfound correct nets23:12
danielsc0ffee: polling your mail won't make it come any faster though, so just relax, and be pleasantly surprised when it arrives23:13
roope    What an image. :) Note the Linux Kernel boko in the background.23:13
Disconnectssvb: ok, your turn :)23:13
JaffaAleksandyr: not if you think that the codes might be time limited: then they can pass them on to others without it appearing that people didn't take them up on the offer. Similarly that's a reason for not giving a "final date for receiving offers is ..."23:13
roopeTwo devices, open, post-it -notes.23:13
danielsroope: yeah, that's the press image.  bizzare, isn't it?23:13
danielsespecially because the 'LINUX KERNEL' bit looks gimped in.23:13
roopeAnd guy right next to his own desktop computer. Errh.23:13
roopeBut he's a developer, right. He's even got a joystick to prove it.23:14
Disconnectcool it came ot of monitor mode cleanly23:14
danielsi think the intersection of people who run xp on their desktop and people with linux kernel books ... isn't very popular.23:14
AleksandyrJaffa: fewer devices handed out means fewer applications developed for the N800 in the short term. Theoretically the goal of the subsidy is to ensure a strong N800 software library proximate to the release23:14
majixroope: you can tell they guy is hardcore, 'cause he's got two devices ;)23:14
kenderroope, hehe23:14
roopeDual screen action.23:14
danielsmajix: i have six, what does that make me?23:14
Aleksandyrdaniels: I'd send you a picture, but my camera's at home :D23:14
Aleksandyrdaniels: crazy.23:15
JaffaAleksandyr: indeed, which is the strongest point of all23:15
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AleksandyrJaffa: the thing that interests me is the number: 500. Especially if they're working off public information.23:16
AleksandyrJaffa: I don't think there are 500 registered (significant) users on, for one23:16
JaffaAleksandyr: I *think* that's similar to the number they did for the 770, but I might be making that up23:16
kenderAleksandyr, in maemo planet there are around 80023:16
kendermm.. maemo garage sorry23:16
Disconnectssvb: btobexing it over now23:16
AleksandyrJaffa: says the original program was 500, you're right23:17
Aleksandyrkender: how many of those are developers (as opposed to users submitting forum posts and bug reports)?23:17
majixthere are also devices for non-maemo key people we are grateful to, I remember Linus got a 77023:17
kenderAleksandyr, agree23:17
Takit would be great if most of the (semi-significant) devs on garage got a DDP invite23:18
Takthen I'd just have to find a way to be semi-significant ;-)23:18
kenderAleksandyr, and, the solution, for example, for future developers? whose are new ones with the n800?23:18
Aleksandyrkender: for example, there are 111 projects. That's practically 5 devices per project!23:18
* Disconnect runs off to start a project ;)23:18
kenderDisconnect, hehehe23:18
AleksandyrTak: ergh, that would require me using garage and actually packaging things, instead of just hacking them together23:19
kenderDisconnect, a "hello world!" is enough23:19
Taksure, but it works out great for people that already actually packaged things :-P23:19
Disconnectoh, gotta start a project AND release something? work work work...23:19
ssvbI wonder how many of those first developer device program participants actually contributed something valuable to maemo?23:20
qgilroope: I prefer the shadow of the headset on a screen that in principle would accept no shadow...23:20
Disconnectmplay.p my.mpg sorta works23:20
AleksandyrTak: of which there are rather few23:20
Disconnectand the colors are good23:20
ssvbDisconnect: does it play video? can it switch fullscreen/windowed? do keys work correctly?23:21
Disconnectjerky, .5 to 3 fps23:21
ssvbDisconnect: hmm, what kind of video did you try?23:22
Disconnectand no, it doesn't respond reasonably23:22
Disconnect640x480 mpeg23:22
ssvbbut at least it runs, that's good23:22
|tbb|damn i always got a disconnect ;-P23:22
kenderDisconnect, -vo xv ?23:23
Disconnectand it bails on xv (incompatible with this codec)23:23
ssvbDisconnect: does it run with sdl now?23:23
majixmy N800 is defying the laws of nature, first the battery applet said 3 hours use time, then 4, and now after several hours it reads 5. which is nice23:23
Disconnectplays but doesn't use xv23:24
kendermajix, hehehe23:24
Disconnectyah sdl seems slightly smoother23:24
bmidgleymajix: better not charge it or it might run out23:24
myrenanyone compred the xvid video playing power of the N800 to the 770?23:24
myrencan we encode higher res / bitrate?23:24
Disconnectgonna get a log hang on23:24
myrenor was the DSP untouched23:24
bmidgleyis the headset jack 2.5mm or 3.5mm?23:24
ssvbDisconnect: can you try some other video? I wonder if xv will work23:24
kenderbmidgley, normal jack I think23:24
revmajix: i get similarily awesome batt life on my 77023:24
revmajix: though i don't have the batt applet, i just go by the built-in one23:25
danielsDisconnect: xv is incompatible with which codec?23:25
Disconnectdaniels: mpegpes23:25
danielsDisconnect: that might be yv12 vs. i420, which i've already fixed, but mplayer should still flip ...23:25
Disconnectyah it plays23:25
danielsDisconnect: i have no idea what mpegpes is, sorry23:26
qgiljust curious, how would you distribute the 500 devices?23:26
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ssvbDisconnect: also if you have any wma/wmv files, it would be interesting to see how it can handle them (wma decoder uses floating point)23:27
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* Jaffa should upload something to mud-<power-cut/>builder23:27
kenderqgil, nokia will send descount number to that "special" persons emails23:28
VRe..ah: so next tablet comes out Q1/2008 with wimax..23:28
NickDeon the maemo site23:28
NickDe-we keep on selling and supporting 770s23:28
NickDekeep on selling 770's23:28
kenderVRe, really? that's true?23:28
NickDeI bet they cut the price to 249.99 or less and keep it going for a bit23:28
qgilkender: I know, what would be your definition of "special"? How would you come up with the 500 names?23:29
Disconnect-vo xv23:29
kenderqgil, dunno23:29
VRekender: So the ceo promised on speech in CES23:29
Jaffaqgil: that's an interesting question. The options, as I see it, 1) Apply - used for 770, 2) Choose from the pool - being used now, 3) Discounted upgrades for first 500 770 owners to apply, 4) Nothing at all, 5) ... ?23:30
Takexcept that there's no "apply"23:30
Aleksandyrqgil: 1) 2) 3) internettablettalk.com23:31
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Jaffaqgil: only issue with (2) is one of perceived fairness. What if someone contributes to ITT a lot, for example, is that considered (by Maemo who are unrelated to this third party site) as contributing to the platform?23:31
Aleksandyrthis channel fits in somewhere too.23:31
Disconnectrandom drawings23:31
mathumm, I'm going to start a club called "dumb guys who bought the N770 just weeks before the N800 was released"23:31
qgilJaffa: are you talking about owners/users? the devices are intended to help hackers/developers23:31
jpetersenqgil: bugzilla.maemo.org23:31
Disconnectmat: lol23:31
Takheh, if it's bugzilla, I'm screwed23:31
AleksandyrI've gotten nothing from bugzilla.maemo.org23:32
feruloqgil: IMHO there are also some gtk+/gnome hackers interested on the device that could be cool potential contributors to maemo23:32
AleksandyrI want access to the internal one =/ read-only, even!23:32
Disconnectssvb: that help?23:32
Jaffaqgil: true, I thought you were asking more widely. Hackers doesn't necessarily equal developers, though.23:32
ssvbDisconnect: don't know yet, seems like it uses xv, but also performs software scaling for some reason23:32
AleksandyrJaffa: I like to think I embody hacker != developer ;)23:32
DisconnectCould not find matching colorspace - retrying with -vf scale...23:33
qgilhackers, developers, contributors...23:33
JaffaAleksandyr: :)23:33
Jaffaqgil: yeah, so as I was saying if someone's a power user who helps other people get started, are they worthy? (This is a rhetorical question, showing that I understand it's a hard problem, and one I'm glad I don't have to solve ;-))23:33
AleksandyrJaffa: sadly, the answer is probably no.23:34
koenJaffa: that's why they have 500 discounts23:34
ssvbDisconnect: can you try to benchmark mplayer using these instructions?
qgilworthness here is limited by the amount of 50023:34
Jaffaqgil: An *open* process would be to accept nominations, but there are obviously issues with that too.23:34
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koenJaffa: and a number of key FOSS people have been donated a 770 in the past (e.g. completely free)23:34
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Disconnectn93 video plays like a champ (better than with media player)23:35
ssvbDisconnect: to see how it compares to Nokia 770 (using -lavdopts idct=16 only)23:35
qgilif we have 15 maemo contributors then you can start with power users, if you have 550 instead we have a problem here23:35
Jaffakoen: yup - I certainly see the same happening again (or at least being given the discount)23:35
Jaffaqgil: indeed.23:35
Disconnectboom, crash23:35
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* Jaffa would, as he's said before and he were running the selection process, use about half-3/5 for existing contributors and then the rest for targetted FOSS people who are likely to contribute23:36
Aleksandyrthe problem with likely contributors in this case23:36
Aleksandyris that it's not a 100% subsidy.23:36
ssvbDisconnect: what happened?23:37
koenJaffa: although I see one huge drawback with the 80023:37
Jaffakoen: one?23:37
koenJaffa: all those people (cairo, gtk) that are doing optimizations for 'embedded' should not get one23:37
Disconnectflickered between a couple of frames about 2fps, eventually exited.23:37
Aleksandyra discount, even a large one, won't make someone who's not already inclined to write software buy the device.23:37
qgilwith the 770 there have been some 100% subsidies, though (I ignore how many and I also ignore if there are plans to 100% subsidize N800s)23:37
Jaffakoen: heh :)23:37
JaffaAleksandyr: true23:38
koenJaffa: "could be, but the n800 on my desk has an fpu"23:38
kenderSo as of now23:38
kender-we keep on selling and supporting 770s23:38
kender-we expect many Maemo applications to be made available for both products23:38
kender-hacking and development will be supported on both platforms23:38
kender-Nokia will not integrate and make OS2007 available for 77023:38
kenderfrom ->
Aleksandyrthe discount's going to get maximum ROI from people who have released 770 apps in the past, because 100% of them WILL rerelease for the 800 if they take the discount.23:38
Disconnectbenching now23:38
Aleksandyrfor example, if I had an N800 in my hand, there'd already be abiword and jamvm packages for it.23:39
JaffaAleksandyr: similarly Sylpheed, galculator, a proper NetSurf package and I'd join you in hacking on the Java23:39
Aleksandyrcounterpoint being that there will be such packages later on from me regardless of whether I get an N800, but that's just an ego thing ;)23:39
ssvbDisconnect: benching just idct=16 should be enough, also we can see how n800 compares to other ARM devices (there are some other benchmarks in that thread) :)23:40
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AleksandyrJaffa: there ought to be a Java on the N* group.23:40
Jaffaqgil/daniels: do normal GUI 770 apps run, without recompilation on the N800? There seems to be unclarity on this issue.23:40
qgilon the other hand, what is your impression about how the 500 770s were distributed at the time? good? bad? no idea?23:40
danielsJaffa: some, but not all23:41
AleksandyrJaffa: there's mention of functions being removed in maemo3, so I would hazard it's not 100%23:41
koenJaffa: depends, thanks to g_slice in glib23:41
JaffaRight, I see. That's clearer; thanks :)23:41
Aleksandyrqgil: I have yet to hear about anyone receiving one, so no idea23:41
Aleksandyrqgil: I don't believe there's a list anywhere to compare23:41
qgilI was asking about subjective perception   :)23:42
qgilI remember there were some weeks at Planet GNOME in which I felt like the last monkeuy not getting one of those intriguing devices23:43
Jaffaqgil: I only found out about the 770 once it'd closed, but I can see why you'd avoid it this time.23:43
Disconnect49.089 0.069 0.0 0.633 = 49.79123:43
feruloI got a developer discount for the 770 last year23:43
ssvbAleksandyr: I managed to apply in the last few days and got a device :)23:43
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Aleksandyrssvb: then as far as I'm concerned the program works ;)23:44
jpetersenqgil: i had the impression the 770s were contributed good23:44
Disconnectrerunning, i'll pastebin the results23:44
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Disconnectbut eventually i'll be off to the bar to use it to pick up chicks ;)23:45
ssvbDisconnect: run with '-loop 5' in order to have it automatically run video several times23:45
AleksandyrDisconnect: it works somewhat better than you would think23:45
pahartikdwd: I do use "localhost" for IRC, IMAP, SMTP, NNTP... because they are redirected through SSH23:45
DisconnectAleksandyr: I wasn't kidding (well, a little cuz i'm married. but yah, it works :) ..)23:46
Aleksandyr"Hey ladies...did you know I have the internet with me?" "Really? Where?" "In my pants."23:46
timeless> um23:47
timeless> what is nokia new year's eve23:47
timeless> and why is it on now?23:47
Disconnectpahartik: be safe, use instead. localhost might be defined by a hostile dns server23:47
Aleksandyrthe 770 is also the greatest bar bet settler known to man.23:47
Disconnect800 is greater but yes23:47
revAleksandyr: i'd say the same thing for any pda when i started to carry around a wikipedia mirror with me on my pda23:47
Aleksandyrrev: hrm. I should write something to do that.23:47
Takhow big is a wikipedia mirror?23:48
revyeah, on PocketPC and PalmOS there is a script (perl?) that takes the database dump and generates a TomeRaider file, then you use TOmeRaider on each platform to read the file23:48
revTak: well... anywhere between 500 MB and 1.5 GB23:48
AleksandyrTak: varies. You'll want about 1.5GB.23:48
Taknot bad23:48
revbut if you use an older wikipedia mirror with no images you can get in at 500 MB or so23:49
revi use one from 2005 that is 700 MB w/ no images23:49
Aleksandyrzbedic doesn't look like it would be too hard to duplicate23:49
Aleksandyralternatively, I could cheat with lighthttpd23:49
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Takcould slap wikipedia on a 2g mmc-micro23:49
revbut wikipedia has grown HUGElY in the last year or two, so i keep using an older mirror23:49
revactually, i don't even keep a mirror anymore- i now have a cell phone that has always on, unlimited broadband internet access23:49
revso i just actally go to wikipedia23:50
revbut i still have the mirror on my unused axim23:50
Aleksandyrrev: a lightweight caching wikipedia client would probably still be useful, right?23:50
Aleksandyrrev: have it store the last 500MB of requested pages and autofetch linked documents one deep23:50
matbtw, anyone here tried to hack his N770/N800 device to transform it into a universal remote ? that is, hacking a IR receiver/transmitter, to receive the codes from various remotes and retransmit it23:50
qgilgosh, precisely today my  neighbour asked me to put "an Encarta" in the computer I'm about to give to his taughter (11 years old) and I was thinking how to get wikipedia offline - any link provided by the lazy IRC will be appreciated23:51
revAleksandyr: sure23:51
Aleksandyrmat: yes, it's been done.23:51
JaffaAleksandyr: auto-fetching would be cool, but how often do you go back to the same wikipedia page twice in, say, a day? ;-/23:51
k-wayssvb, you don't even have a n800?23:51
matah. any pointers ? I couldn't find anything23:51
NickDeI dont like how Noam Chomsky could add to the article on linguistics but then some 12 year old wikipedia editor could revert his edits... I just can't fully give into the wikipedia craze knowing thats the case....23:51
Aleksandyrmat: searching...23:51
matand I would love to use the big pretty screen of my N770 to control my stuff23:51
kendermajix, the n800 haven't got IR (nor N700)23:51
AleksandyrNickDe: collective intelligence ain't23:51
Aleksandyrkender: however an IR blaster client has been written23:51
NickDeAleksandyr: ...???23:52
revNickDe: perhaps, but those arguments just don't work- studies have shown wikipedia is more accurate than "real" encyclopedia's- someone else would go fix it23:52
qgil(the old computer I will give to my neighbour will be based on Ubuntu or Edubuntu + needless to say I don't have an Encarta around23:52
matkender: I know that, which is why I'm talking about hardware mods23:52
AleksandyrJaffa: very often23:52
Aleksandyrqgil: researching the best process for you23:52
matI know writing a IR receiver/transmitter from audio jack or usb is doable23:52
Disconnect  posting bench results23:52
revit is democracy vs authority- wikipedia is unsettling to folks for whom trusting the masses is scary23:52
ssvbk-way: not yet, but I hope to get one eventually :)23:52
revto each their own23:52
JaffaAleksandyr: even in bars? I tend to look something up once and go off on a merry trail, lost for hours on the minutae of fictional Stargate physics23:52
matI don't want to start doing hardware mods if someone already tried before me, though :)23:52
NickDerev: thats not always the case though.. like I said.. Noam Chomsky could add to Linguistics article but then some 12 year old could say "thats not right" and revert the edit...23:53
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NickDeencyclopedias have real editors23:53
NickDebut I will use wikipedia everyday23:53
NickDebut not for an authoritative reference23:53
qgilAleksandyr: research would be the best process if I wouldn't have to organize a whole family move to Finland before Saturday - having to deliver the PC before - but yes, you're right  :)23:53
TakNickDe: however, the wikipedia editors have been shown to be just as good as "real" editors23:53
Disconnectpastebin blew up so..23:53
AleksandyrJaffa: the advantage of this "client" would be that it uses the XML interface and not the HTML interface, cutting down download time if nothing else23:53
matAleksandyr: hum, using an external PC though. still, it's a start, thanks23:53
revNickDe: but then the other folks would see the non-sensical 12-year edit/revert and cahnge it back- it isn't like the work is lost23:53
Aleksandyrqgil: I meant I'm going to figure it out and give you a link ;) give me a moment23:53
JaffaAleksandyr: agreed, I'd been thinking about something similar recently.23:54
revNickDe: that said, sometimes experts aren't right- it's not like something should be kept in the linguistics article just because chomsky said it- maybe the 12 year old goes and and fixes some small mistakes.23:54
ssvbDisconnect: thanks a lot, so at least for mplayer n800 is about 30% faster than 770 (and it is also faster than nonoverclocked Sharp Zaurus at 416MHz)23:54
Aleksandyrqgil: dang, the method I used is windows-only.23:54
revhey guys, what do i use to watch FLV videos from youtube and the like?23:55
revi thought the built-in movie player would play it, but no dice23:55
Disconnectssvb: is it built for the new cpu?23:55
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qgilferulo: thanks but... where is the deb package containing wikipedia content?  ;)23:55
Disconnectrev: opera sorta works23:55
ferulothey are supposed to be working on it23:55
revDisconnect: huh?23:55
ferulobut in rpm :)23:55
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Jaffarev: On a 770 I use VidConvert if I'm online, but then I'm biased cos I wrote it:
qgilferulo: i can deal with this23:55
revJaffa: that's what i'm saying- i used a service like that, and now i have a .FLV file- and what do i use to play it?23:56
revDisconnect: what do you mean? opera plays youtube videos at 0.5 fps? not on my machine ...23:56
tigertnow I want to hack together a webcam app for this23:56
Jaffarev: You really didn't use VidConvert. It dumps out an AVI file designed for the Nokia 770.23:56
koentigert: photobooth clone23:56
Aleksandyrrev: mplayer for victory.23:56
revJaffa: do you have a working bookmarklet, or do i have to do pasting my self?23:56
revAleksandyr: ah, cool23:56
tigertthat too would be fun23:56
ssvbDisconnect: yes, but of course it was not hand optimized for armv6 yet23:56
Jaffarev: the bookmarklet works for me23:56
revJaffa: really? awesome... i used something like, something like that23:57
koentigert: with flickr support of course :)23:57
Aleksandyranyone else want Greasemonkey for Opera? :D23:57
qgilAleksandyr: das klingt gut - dankeschön!23:57
tigertkoen: flickr photobooth would rock23:57
tigerton a conference for example23:57
revJaffa: i'll go try yours out now, thanks!23:57
tigertget a photostream of booth visitors23:57
Jaffarev: my pleasure ;-)23:57
Aleksandyrqgil: erm, bitte? I have some english references on Knowledge but that's the main page23:57
dushkoAleksandyr: I thought there was some equivalent to Greasemonkey on Opera23:57
* Aleksandyr barely speaks english.23:57
koentigert: I have a plugin called flickrbooth for the mac23:57
Aleksandyrdushko: Opera the real thing supports user scripts, IIRC23:58
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tigertkoen: right23:58
Takdoes the 800 support SDHC?23:58
myrenis the DSP at all enhanced in the N800?23:58
qgilAleksandyr: thanks for the link  :)23:58
tigertso it pushes immediately the taken pics to flickr?23:58
ssvbDisconnect: anyway, these results are expected, they match cpu clock speed increase and memory performance difference23:58
myrenand whats the verdict on the headphone jack?23:58
dushkoAleksandyr: Embedded version doesn't?23:58
koentigert: if you want it to23:58
tigertmyren: verdict?23:58
Aleksandyrdushko: if it did, I can't find it23:58
Aleksandyrqgil: glad to help!23:58
myrentigert: its a 3.5 but it only is single channel?23:58
tigertmyren: the thingy comes with a wired headphone set that has a mic thingy23:58
tigertso it is one extra contact for mic afaik23:59
tigertas the thing has a mic23:59
myrenone jac for the headphone & mic?23:59
tigertbut I havent tried it for calling yet23:59
myrenor does the mic have its own jack?23:59
suihkulokkiTak: even if if doesn't now, SDHC is pin-compatible SD, so it's only a matter of updating driver23:59
Disconnectmyren: one jack23:59
tigertmyren: it plugs into one23:59
tigertmyren: wait a sec23:59
revsuihkulokki: there isn't any harware diff at all?23:59

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