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| mgedmin | shapr: I got the impression that the hardware for SD and SDHC is the same, it's all a matter of software | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| mgedmin | hm, wikipedia says the upper limit is 32 gb rather than 2 tb | 00:09 |
| |tbb| | mgedmin do u got a enviroment to develope apps for maemo now! | 00:11 |
| mgedmin | I've got scratchbox, yes | 00:11 |
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| mgedmin | with the mistral rootstrap yet, no disk space for anything newer | 00:11 |
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| |tbb| | could u port macchanger now :) | 00:11 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: what's wrong with the one at http://mg.pov.lt/770/dists/mistral/experimental/binary-armel/macchanger_1.5.0-1_armel.deb ? | 00:14 |
| |tbb| | is this new? | 00:14 |
| jtokash | FYI, the opera ini file on the n800 is mostly identical to the one from the 770 | 00:15 |
| jtokash | The big differences are all the cache settings. Those are cranked way up on the n800. | 00:15 |
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| robtaylor | MDK: belated pong | 00:17 |
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| * florian ran into the "debconf" dependency problem as well | 00:18 | |
| |tbb| | wow it works thanks | 00:20 |
| jtokash | florian, did you solve it? | 00:21 |
| |tbb| | hi florian | 00:21 |
| florian | jtokash: not yet... which packages failed for you? | 00:21 |
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| jtokash | which app are we talking about? I've failed installing lots. Canola? | 00:22 |
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| |tbb| | where can i see the uptime of my device? | 00:24 |
| jtokash | The following packages have unmet dependencies: | 00:25 |
| florian | jtokash: ok, i tried to install some packages i just created | 00:25 |
| jtokash | debconf: PreDepends: perl-base (>= 5.6.1-4) but it is not installable | 00:25 |
| jtokash | E: Broken packages | 00:25 |
| jtokash | That was the error output of apt-get install debconf | 00:26 |
| |tbb| | ./media/mmc1/debfiles # sudo gainroot | 00:26 |
| florian | i guess that's nothing we can fix easily without bad hacks | 00:26 |
| |tbb| | sudo: unable to lookup (none) via gethostbyname() | 00:26 |
| |tbb| | always i get this error why | 00:26 |
| florian | |tbb|: it tries to resolve its hostname which isn't set | 00:27 |
| |tbb| | sudo: unable to lookup n77k via gethostbyname() | 00:29 |
| |tbb| | same | 00:29 |
| |tbb| | florian is it possible to see the uptime of the n770 | 00:30 |
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| tigert | "uptime" doesnt work? | 00:31 |
| |tbb| | oh, nice never heard about that cmd | 00:32 |
| tigert | heh, you knew the term though? :) | 00:32 |
| tigert | that's where the term comes from | 00:33 |
| |tbb| | :) | 00:33 |
| tigert | :) | 00:33 |
| florian | :-) | 00:33 |
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| jtokash | On the n800, the opera version is: "8.05 Internal build 2.0.31" | 00:52 |
| jtokash | On the 770 it is "8.2 Internal build 1.1.50" | 00:53 |
| jtokash | On the n800, the opera version is: "8.5 Internal build 2.0.31" << correction | 00:53 |
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| jtokash | http://www.codegeek.net/flashversion.htm on the n800 says 7.0.0. It says 6.0.82 on the 770 | 00:57 |
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| jtokash | On the 770 it is "8.02 Internal build 1.1.50" << Correction | 01:00 |
| |tbb| | forum topic | 01:04 |
| jtokash | ooooh | 01:06 |
| jtokash | "And as I mentioned before, the N800 is recognizing a 4 GB SD card. I might possibly pick up an 8 GB just out of curiosity to see if it works." | 01:06 |
| jtokash | found on internettablettalk | 01:06 |
| jtokash | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27929&postcount=54 | 01:07 |
| lindi- | what exactly determines how large cards can be supported? | 01:07 |
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| lindi- | (i'm assuming the SD protocol specification is not available for zero price, otherwise i'd just check there) | 01:09 |
| slapin_nb | is it possible to use 2Gb card with n770? kernel patches? | 01:09 |
| desrt | slapin_nb; it is. | 01:10 |
| desrt | lindi-; there's no such thing as an 8GB SD card | 01:10 |
| desrt | since the SD spec maxes out at 4GB | 01:10 |
| trenka | slapin_nb: no, the latest revision can use it | 01:10 |
| lindi- | desrt: ok, do you have the specs at hand? | 01:11 |
| danguy | That is where SDHC gets involved. | 01:11 |
| desrt | but there is some new specification that is physically compatible with SD (ie: same size cards) that supports larger sizes | 01:11 |
| slapin_nb | that's cool | 01:11 |
| desrt | yes. SDHC is what it's called | 01:11 |
| desrt | i think it's that SD cards have 32bit addressing | 01:11 |
| desrt | and "SD" is byte-addressed | 01:11 |
| desrt | so you can only read as many as 4 billion bytes | 01:11 |
| desrt | whereas SDHC is block addressed (so you can read 4 billion blocks... which are each many bytes) | 01:12 |
| lindi- | isn't MMC sector addressed in contrast? | 01:12 |
| desrt | i think so? | 01:12 |
| * desrt doesn't really know :) | 01:12 | |
| danguy | I though MMC and SD are *very* similar. | 01:12 |
| lindi- | at least the MMC controller i've talked to wanted sector addresses | 01:12 |
| lindi- | but i don't know what really goes on wire | 01:13 |
| danguy | Well, I understand that newer SD has more data pins. | 01:13 |
| qgil | night guys - you're really having fun ;) | 01:13 |
| desrt | qgil; cheers. | 01:13 |
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| |tbb| | som1 on internettablettalk has seen the price 4 the n800 in europe is about 499Euros :/ | 01:25 |
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| gpd | just setting up my N800 :D | 01:28 |
| shapr | whee! | 01:29 |
| gpd | seems great - need to RTFM on how to install xterm, ssh etc | 01:29 |
| gpd | although i suspect that this is OS 2007 so nothing on maemo will work? | 01:30 |
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| shapr | Something weird happening on my Nokia 770... app-manager is giving me "bad file descriptor" in the logs. What's up with that? | 01:38 |
| |tbb| | whats the url to the n800 vid | 01:40 |
| shapr | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpGMuBp99sY | 01:41 |
| jtokash | gpd, I haven't gotten xterm installed, but ssh was easy enough using the redpill mode mentioned in the application list | 01:41 |
| gpd | jtokash: can you point me towards some basic docs - i am new to this platform | 01:42 |
| jtokash | oh, boy | 01:42 |
| jtokash | you never used a 770? | 01:42 |
| gpd | nope :D | 01:42 |
| jtokash | Time to learn about the application manager.. sob sob | 01:42 |
| jtokash | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 | 01:42 |
| jtokash | Most of that stuff won't work, though, until dependancies are updated for the new os | 01:42 |
| gpd | the number on my battery doesn't seem to let me go to the repository | 01:43 |
| c0ffee | somebody should reverse engineer the flasher-2.0 | 01:43 |
| |tbb| | thx | 01:43 |
| jtokash | gpd: go down to OpenSSH Server and client | 01:43 |
| c0ffee | maybe it's possible to create a firmware image from the device | 01:43 |
| jtokash | gpd: read the second half of that section (Installation in application manager with Red Pill mode (much easier than gaining root) ) | 01:43 |
| c0ffee | gaining root is a piece of cake | 01:44 |
| jtokash | that was a quote from the doc | 01:44 |
| jtokash | not my own personal opinion | 01:44 |
| c0ffee | it used to be hard for about half a day | 01:45 |
| gpd | Ok - i enter matrix in the web address and click cancel and nothing happens | 01:46 |
| |tbb| | what is the weight of the new n800 | 01:48 |
| gpd | jtokash: any pointers? am i reading that page wrong? | 01:48 |
| gpd | |tbb|: just weighed it on my kitchen scales and it says 215g with battery | 01:50 |
| gpd | ok - got the red pill - you have to click on a different field before clicking cancel | 01:51 |
| |tbb| | the playback on youtube vidz sucks right | 01:52 |
| gpd | not sure - will check | 01:52 |
| jtokash | |tbb|, yes | 01:52 |
| jtokash | 1-3 fps | 01:52 |
| jtokash | though the audio tracks are great and not choppy | 01:52 |
| |tbb| | so where is the audiotube,lol | 01:53 |
| gpd | loading... | 01:53 |
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| gpd | just seems to be going to a 'want to see more by this' | 01:54 |
| gpd | curious | 01:54 |
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| gpd | yup - not great - about 3 fps | 01:56 |
| gpd | but not my main reason for purchase! | 01:57 |
| gpd | anyway - back to 'setting up the repository' | 01:57 |
| Milhouse | Just ordered my UK N800 for £269 direct from Nokia | 01:58 |
| Milhouse | http://direct.nokia.com/countries.aspx?model=n800 | 01:59 |
| c0ffee | 399 euro here | 01:59 |
| gpd | which repositories would you suggest to get started? garage ? | 01:59 |
| gpd | [sorry for being clueless] | 01:59 |
| Milhouse | £269/€399 works out at about $520 - still a bit high but probably explained by the excellent USD/GBP and USD/EUR exchange rate | 02:00 |
| gpd | mine was 399 USD in compUSA | 02:00 |
| Milhouse | i'm saying how much a euro model costs in dollars - very well aware how much you guys are paying! :) | 02:01 |
| Jaffa | Milhouse: excellent. I can't see me bothering, TBH. | 02:01 |
| Milhouse | $399 is equivalent to £205 so we're paying £64 over the odds | 02:01 |
| gpd | Milhouse -- US prices don't include state tax | 02:02 |
| Milhouse | Jaffa: I have time, and more importantly money, on my hands! :) | 02:02 |
| gpd | so mine was actually 432.99 | 02:02 |
| gpd | with CA tax etc | 02:02 |
| Milhouse | ok, so $432 prolly works out about £212 :) | 02:02 |
| Milhouse | maybe £220 | 02:03 |
| gpd | I am trying to make mysefl feel better as I am moving back to the UK in March! | 02:03 |
| gpd | having lived in Los Angeles for 4 years... | 02:03 |
| Milhouse | mate, you should stay... | 02:03 |
| gpd | presumably this mistral distribution will be ok on the N800? | 02:03 |
| Milhouse | Scirroco? | 02:03 |
| gpd | tell me about it -- it is currently glorious sunshine and not a cloud in the sky | 02:04 |
| gpd | however, this doesn't do well for playing with gadgets ;) | 02:04 |
| WillySilly | except all the smog | 02:04 |
| Milhouse | Can't imagine why anyone would want to come back to this country | 02:04 |
| kaatis | from maemo.org news: "January 7, 2007, Maemo 3.0 'bora' is released. Maemo 3.0 supports application development for the latest Nokia N800 Internet Tablet. In maemo 3.0 we have upgraded to the latest Scratchbox Apophis R4 as a cross-compiling development environment." | 02:05 |
| ferenc | maemo 3.0 'bora' is launched. check the details at maemo.org :) | 02:05 |
| kaatis | ferenc, that's old news :P | 02:05 |
| Milhouse | and developers get a discounted device! | 02:05 |
| Milhouse | 99 eur per device - nice | 02:06 |
| gpd | kaatis: not new to me - had to do a hard reload to get that page :) | 02:06 |
| ferenc | kaatis: true :) i was not able to type here and release the site at the same time. i should learn that next time :) | 02:06 |
| gpd | ok - so i'm adding the main maemo repository with bora distribution -- downloading | 02:07 |
| c0ffee | ah, mean | 02:08 |
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| Jaffa | OK, if I can get to qualify for a developer device... ;-) | 02:08 |
| c0ffee | it doesn't say where to apply for a developer device | 02:08 |
| Jaffa | No, I've just noticed that. | 02:08 |
| nomis | ferenc: is a 770 developer device recipient uneligble for an N800 discount? ;) | 02:08 |
| Milhouse | frence - will Bora (Maemo 3.0) be released for the 770? | 02:08 |
| gpd | presumably i need a terminal before anything else | 02:08 |
| Milhouse | ferenc, sorry | 02:09 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: where's the "can I have a discount, please" link? ;-) | 02:09 |
| kaatis | Fast install instructions | 02:09 |
| kaatis | 1) add the line "deb http://scratchbox.org/debian ./" to host's sources.list | 02:09 |
| kaatis | 2) say "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install `apt-cache search ^scratchbox | cut -f1 -d" "` xserver-xephyr" | 02:09 |
| gpd | then probably dropbear, vim... then the world is my clam | 02:09 |
| kaatis | 3) add yourself to scratchbox group by saying "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser $USER" 4) start a new shell with your user (group kicks in from login) | 02:09 |
| kaatis | 5) wget http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/maemo-sdk-install_3.0.sh and start maemo 3.0 installer with "bash maemo-sdk-install_3.0.sh" | 02:09 |
| ferenc | Milhouse: no probs. many apps should run on the N800 out of box. | 02:09 |
| NickDe | ferenc: would OS2006 apps run ok on OS2007? | 02:10 |
| ferenc | though i would recommend to recompile all apps with the best ever SDK we have ;) | 02:10 |
| Milhouse | no what i meant was, would Bora/Maemo3/OS2007 be released as an upgrade for the 770? | 02:10 |
| NickDe | like console apps/ssh/xterm etc | 02:10 |
| NickDe | Milhouse: that to :) | 02:10 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, what about the developer devices? | 02:10 |
| Milhouse | or is that it for the 770 - stop at 770? | 02:10 |
| Milhouse | bugger, stop at 2006? | 02:10 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: going off the 770 dev programme, email to n800-developer-device@maemo.org ? | 02:11 |
| gpd | kaatis: were those install instructions relevent to me? | 02:11 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: the dev devel programme is different this time. noone has to apply. | 02:11 |
| Jaffa | Oh, people are going to be chosen and emailed? | 02:11 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, so when will i receive my discount code? :) | 02:11 |
| lle | bloody hell, I think I lost my bet with tko about sb2 being ready before maemo switches to sb1 | 02:12 |
| |tbb| | the bad thing will be that the navkit especially the holder will not compatible with the new nokia 800 | 02:12 |
| Milhouse | basically - what are the future plans for 770 firmware upgrades, keep in step with N800 or is that it for the 770 now (no more OS upgrades) | 02:12 |
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| c0ffee | oh boy oh boy oh boy | 02:13 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: who do we have to be nice to to sway the picking? Can you share any details on it? e.g. targetted to non-current Maemo developers to entice them in? | 02:13 |
| ferenc | Milhouse: we will not keep in step with the N800, but you will here 770 related news. | 02:13 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, can you at least tell us, when the device program will contact people? | 02:13 |
| Jaffa | i.e. when should we stop hoping ;-) | 02:14 |
| Milhouse | thanks ference - i'm sure it will be a cause of concern to many 770 owners | 02:14 |
| ferenc | c0ffee: i don't know. i am not in the team who "contacts" the developers. | 02:14 |
| c0ffee | where's devesh! | 02:14 |
| NickDe | ferenc: in reference to the n800 (which I have had for a few hours now) would it be possible for me to install OS2006 openssh/xterm etc packages. Will the flasher still work -> RD mode? | 02:15 |
| ferenc | Milhouse: yes, and we are aware of that. but here at maemo.org we try to support the developers as much as we can. | 02:15 |
| Jaffa | Milhouse: and developers who don't upgrade. I don't much fancy having *four* Scratchbox targets for Sylpheed, Java etc. | 02:15 |
| ferenc | NickDe: let me try. | 02:15 |
| kaatis | gpd, yes if you're on debian/ubuntu and like to try the latest sdk | 02:15 |
| c0ffee | NickDe, there's a flasher-3.0 | 02:15 |
| NickDe | ferenc: only reason I ask is at the moment I can't reflash this thing if stuff screws up | 02:15 |
| NickDe | c0ffee: I did not know.. excellent that must have been recent | 02:16 |
| NickDe | ferenc: is there an OS2007 image available at the moment? | 02:16 |
| ferenc | NickDe: osso-xterm is part of the bora SDK "Debian" repo. | 02:16 |
| NickDe | ferenc: excellent | 02:17 |
| ferenc | NickDe: not at the moment, but we will publish the image. i guess it will be there this week. | 02:17 |
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| * gpd grins widely after starting up osso-xterm | 02:17 | |
| NickDe | ferenc: ok cool thanks for the info | 02:17 |
| ferenc | the source of the OS 2007 will also be available | 02:17 |
| Disconnect | so catch me up - is this thing official yet? (and if so, why is tableteer still prompting for a password??) | 02:17 |
| NickDe | yeah I figured | 02:17 |
| NickDe | I am flying to CES on tues and want a nice working n800 | 02:17 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: I love the way your announcements are so immediate after 00:00 on 2007-01-08 GMT :) | 02:17 |
| NickDe | ha h ah | 02:17 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: was it really? | 02:18 |
| * Jaffa 'd assumed it was planned, not coincidence TBH ;-) | 02:18 | |
| ferenc | i thought i will be late, the publishing was a little slow. and right now i am not in Suomi. | 02:18 |
| NickDe | it looks like the n800 was actually built to be used with your fingers on the screen.. it looks to be a nice solid surface that wont mark as easily.. is this the case ferenc ?? in your opinion | 02:18 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: it was planned of course | 02:18 |
| Disconnect | NickDe: fwiw mine looks like the 770... | 02:19 |
| ferenc | NickDe: no idea about HW design, sorry | 02:19 |
| Disconnect | (and seems to mark as easily) | 02:19 |
| Jaffa | ference: Well, 4 minutes late's OK - I was about to go to bed. | 02:19 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: I dont know man.. the 770 had this loose film on top while the n800 seems to have a solid surface | 02:19 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: I guess I'll have to screen protect this thing as well huh | 02:20 |
| jtokash | yeah, the 800's surface seems much less squishy | 02:20 |
| ferenc | NickDe: osso-xterm installs just fine. | 02:20 |
| c0ffee | the 770 also has a fat thumb fullscreen keyboard | 02:20 |
| Disconnect | my 770 didn't seem loose | 02:20 |
| Disconnect | c0ffee: same in 800 | 02:20 |
| gpd | i am reluctant to remove the screen protector just yet | 02:20 |
| c0ffee | so i guess before are for fingering | 02:20 |
| c0ffee | oh man | 02:20 |
| gpd | you can certainly use fingers even with the plastic on | 02:20 |
| jtokash | gpd, most of us don't use screen protectors on our 770s, fyi | 02:20 |
| Disconnect | yah | 02:20 |
| NickDe | gpd: just remove it.. use the device | 02:20 |
| NickDe | you cant baby it forever | 02:21 |
| Milhouse | anyone able to identify the CPU yet? | 02:21 |
| gpd | NickDe: I can for today :) | 02:21 |
| jtokash | That's coming from someone who always put protectors on palm devices. | 02:21 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, you mail says there are details about the developer program on maemo.org? :) | 02:21 |
| Disconnect | was gonna leave mine ln but that silver tab was in my way | 02:21 |
| NickDe | ha ha ha | 02:21 |
| ferenc | kaatis: i wish i could install the SDK right now, but my connection here is too slow. | 02:21 |
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| gpd | it is running a 2.6.18 kernel | 02:21 |
| ferenc | c0ffee: i meant the annoucement :) | 02:21 |
| c0ffee | mean! :) | 02:22 |
| Disconnect | 2.6.18-omap1 | 02:22 |
| Milhouse | 2.6.16 on 770 | 02:22 |
| ferenc | i guess we have to make it clear that this time developer do not need to apply. | 02:22 |
| Milhouse | omap1? | 02:22 |
| NickDe | but you know after a year of use my 770 screen protector shows little marks on it anyways | 02:22 |
| Milhouse | would have expected omap2 if it were an omap2410 - wonder what that means... | 02:22 |
| NickDe | for the n800 I am going to say screw it and just go sans screen protector.. I figure this thing was designed to be used with a stylus and fingers..it should be good to go out of the box | 02:22 |
| gpd | cat /proc/cpuinfo says ... Processor : Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 v61 | 02:23 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: yeah. If you wanted to be *really* open sourcey about it, you could get nominations from the public and hold a poll ;-) Or has the list been selected already? | 02:23 |
| ferenc | kaatis; how is the dual boot thingy? | 02:23 |
| Disconnect | ferenc: apply to what? | 02:23 |
| ferenc | Disconnect: developers do not need to apply for the device developer program | 02:24 |
| Milhouse | gpd: how bizarre... I wonder why the secrecy? | 02:24 |
| Disconnect | then who does? | 02:24 |
| shapr | jtokash: My IIIx and IIIc screens got horribly scratched, but a year of heavy use has not affected my 770 screen. | 02:24 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: AFAIK the list is not finalized, but believe me the selection is based on the previous maemo/770 activities | 02:24 |
| jtokash | shapr, interesting! | 02:24 |
| ferenc | Disconnect: nobody | 02:24 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: thanks, incl. # of lines on #maemo? ;-) | 02:25 |
| shapr | I hope the N800 screen is as scratch resistant. | 02:25 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, does hacking the root accout qualify me? :) | 02:25 |
| Jaffa | That'd be a bad, bad metric :) | 02:25 |
| * Disconnect already got sent to sanfran, not likely to be eligable anyway ;) | 02:25 | |
| Jaffa | (number of chat lines, not root hacking ;-)) | 02:25 |
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| c0ffee | c'mon ferenc | 02:26 |
| c0ffee | pluuuuhh-eeasse | 02:26 |
| c0ffee | give some more info | 02:26 |
| * Jaffa wonders about releasing proper a couple of the things he's got lying on his HD (e.g. ArcEm, galculator, NetSurf) and moving Sylpheed from the ApplicationCatalog2006Wip page to boost his profile ;-) | 02:26 | |
| shapr | Do you guys know the matching repositories for osso-xterm, ssh, becomeroot, and vi? | 02:26 |
| shapr | A friend of mine is exchanging the N770 he bought *yesterday* for an N800 that'll be in stock in a few days in Portland, OR | 02:27 |
| Disconnect | lol | 02:27 |
| Jaffa | heh | 02:27 |
| Disconnect | timing | 02:27 |
| shapr | So I'm writing a quick intro to getting bunch of fun packages on maemo | 02:27 |
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| gpd | shapr++ just what i need | 02:27 |
| Paavo | I'd say the double RAM alone would be worth the upgrade. | 02:27 |
| shapr | My intro goes like this: 1. install a few matching apt sources by hand 2. install becomeroot, osso-xterm, ssh, and vi 3. Run vi /etc/apt/sources.list to put in the entire list of apt sources from http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositoriesSourceList | 02:28 |
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| shapr | 4. Profit! | 02:28 |
| shapr | Actually, 4. is "wildly install packages from the Application Manager" | 02:28 |
| Jaffa | shapr: vi's built-in as std now (although vim isn't) | 02:29 |
| shapr | oh nice | 02:29 |
| shackan | hi | 02:29 |
| gpd | shapr: the application manager seems nice enough for now | 02:29 |
| Jaffa | shapr: openssh just requires http://repository.maemo.org/... and osso-xterm, best version is inz's | 02:29 |
| shackan | anybody knows how to participate into the Developer Device Program ? | 02:30 |
| disq | i wonder if i should order one n800 right away, got a friend in the us right now she's due back thursday :) | 02:30 |
| Disconnect | lol | 02:30 |
| Milhouse | ferenc - any ideas what is up with the poor flash performance on the n800, is it running unoptimised code? | 02:30 |
| disq | tho i think it's best to wait for the specs first | 02:30 |
| Jaffa | shackan: ferenc's said it's a selection panel, rather than an application process. | 02:30 |
| shapr | disq: most specs are known, go for it! | 02:30 |
| ferenc | c0ffee: no idea if hacking root will be enough to get the discount. | 02:30 |
| gpd | hello from my n800 ... the joy of screen | 02:30 |
| disq | shapr: cpu cpu cpu | 02:30 |
| Disconnect | disq: what specs are you missing? | 02:30 |
| Disconnect | meh | 02:31 |
| shapr | disq: afaik, speed is known, thought not exact model | 02:31 |
| shapr | though* | 02:31 |
| ferenc | Milhouse: don't know unfortunately. | 02:31 |
| shapr | gpd: yay! | 02:31 |
| Milhouse | disq: given the disproprotionate difference in cost between the US and Europe I'd get your friend to pick one up for you | 02:31 |
| c0ffee | ferenc, well, it's ofcourse not all i did :) | 02:31 |
| arj | has anyone upgraded to 3.0 on 770 yet? | 02:31 |
| Disconnect | what are you gonna do, buy one with the cpu you want..? | 02:31 |
| disq | mmm true dat | 02:31 |
| shapr | Yeah, rumor has it the N800 will be 400 usd or 500 euro | 02:31 |
| shackan | Jaffa, so they already have their list of lucky wannabe developers ? | 02:31 |
| disq | arj: i think you can't do that :) | 02:31 |
| florian | good night | 02:31 |
| c0ffee | the n800 is 399 euro in germany | 02:31 |
| * Disconnect blew up his dev box :( | 02:32 | |
| Jaffa | shackan: hang on, it'll be in the log | 02:32 |
| arj | dang | 02:32 |
| gpd | crap - now i need to work out how to do Ctrl-a d | 02:32 |
| shapr | c0ffee: Ouch, that's still ~520USD | 02:32 |
| c0ffee | well | 02:32 |
| arj | I just saw the message on the maemo-users list | 02:32 |
| Disconnect | maemo mapper better be on that list :) | 02:32 |
| Jaffa | shackan: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-01-08.log.html#t2007-01-08T02:24:45 | 02:32 |
| shackan | Jaffa, thanks, I'm checking right now | 02:32 |
| pigeon | so... about that developer device program... ;) | 02:33 |
| * Jaffa imagines this going on all night, so beds since he's got paying work tomorrow. | 02:33 | |
| Jaffa | Today. | 02:33 |
| Jaffa | g'night. | 02:33 |
| shapr | Jaffa: inz osso-xterm? | 02:33 |
| shapr | ah, g'nite | 02:34 |
| gpd | anyone got a pointer to a ctrl key? | 02:34 |
| shapr | gpd: If it's osso-xterm you're using, the menu can send control keys. | 02:34 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: night | 02:34 |
| Disconnect | someone /topic the "don't call us, we'll call you" dev program info | 02:34 |
| c0ffee | i made the channel -t today | 02:34 |
| gpd | sweet - thanks shapr | 02:35 |
| c0ffee | feel free to mess with the topic | 02:35 |
| arj | disq: seems you're right | 02:35 |
| arj | :( | 02:35 |
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| * gpd does a little dance - the joy of toys | 02:35 | |
| *** shapr changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you" | 02:35 | |
| c0ffee | releasing the info about the developer program so short before i want to go to bed is really mean :) | 02:35 |
| disq | okay then i'm instructing my friend to check compusa after tomorrow | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | shapr: http://www.maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXterm | 02:35 |
| *** shapr changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | shapr hugs Finland more" | 02:36 | |
| Disconnect | lol | 02:36 |
| shapr | Jaffa: Thanks | 02:36 |
| Milhouse | $360 in the NYC Nokia store apparently | 02:36 |
| disq | dev program is very good but my app doesn't even install in 2.1 right now so i don't think i deserve that :) | 02:36 |
| shackan | Jaffa, what timing! it seems the announcement was made right before I came here to ask :) | 02:36 |
| shapr | Milhouse: I wonder if nokia-usa web orders will be that cheap too? | 02:36 |
| Milhouse | dunno, try the link to the direct shop | 02:37 |
| Milhouse | http://direct.nokia.com/countries.aspx?model=n800 | 02:37 |
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| shapr | I'm looking forward to getting an N800 so I can play with OLSRd, after which I shall give my N770 to my girlfriend, who wants one very much. | 02:37 |
| gpd | in general - should I drain the battery before charging - or not give a crap? | 02:37 |
| NickDe | gpd: lion should never be discharged | 02:37 |
| NickDe | gpd: but the circuitry prevents you from discharging below a dangerous level anyways | 02:38 |
| NickDe | gpd: you shoudlnt give a crap | 02:38 |
| akk | Probably stupid question: if I want to update my OS which file should I download? | 02:38 |
| NickDe | you should also take the screen protector off :) | 02:38 |
| gpd | NickDe: that is the answer I was looking for | 02:38 |
| akk | SU-18_2006SE_2.2006.39-14_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin or Nokia_770_SE2005_5_2006_13_7.bin or what? | 02:38 |
| disq | Milhouse: is it on sale today? | 02:39 |
| Milhouse | It is in some European countries | 02:39 |
| disq | my impression was they were shipped but won't be sold until the CES announcement | 02:39 |
| jtokash | ferenc: Someone on ITT forums says that the n800 supports 4GB SD cards. Do you know if it also supports HDSD (8gb) cards? | 02:39 |
| Milhouse | just trawling the Nokia US site and can't find the N800 | 02:39 |
| Jaffa | disq: The Nokia online store is selling them as "in stock" now. | 02:39 |
| disq | frack the nokia site :P | 02:39 |
| ferenc | jtokash: no idea. i wish i had an 8 gig card here ;) | 02:40 |
| Milhouse | N800 not on Nokia US site | 02:40 |
| Disconnect | tableteer is still unusable on 800\ | 02:40 |
| Milhouse | nokia.com/n800 still redirects to the N80 phone | 02:40 |
| shapr | akk: SE2005 is old | 02:40 |
| Milhouse | I guess these links may go live after the official announcement | 02:40 |
| ferenc | yes, just tried that too. it requires authentication :) | 02:40 |
| shapr | akk: 2006 is the current OS, and 2007 will probably be announced tomorrow. | 02:41 |
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| Disconnect | -any- tableteer link forwards | 02:41 |
| akk | shapr: Ah! I didn't notice it was 2005. Thanks. Think I should wait for 2007? | 02:41 |
| c0ffee | enough! | 02:41 |
| shapr | akk: Not unless you already have the sequel to the Nokai 770, the Nokia 800 | 02:41 |
| c0ffee | i shall try to sleep | 02:41 |
| shapr | after all that c0ffee ? | 02:42 |
| Jaffa | Ditto. | 02:42 |
| akk | shapr: Nope, just a 770. Thanks. | 02:42 |
| c0ffee | well | 02:42 |
| c0ffee | ferenc either doesn't have or doesn't share information | 02:42 |
| Milhouse | This comment on Engadget: "I saw them at the new Nokia Store at 57 St & 5 Ave in NYC. There's a big display with them so I messing around with one and came away somewhat impressed. It was selling for something like $360." | 02:42 |
| Milhouse | So Nokia have blown their own embargo???? | 02:42 |
| c0ffee | and it's unlikely that this will change within the next few hours | 02:42 |
| shapr | akk: If you just purchased your 770, you could alway send it back and get an 800 instead! | 02:42 |
| c0ffee | so i can try to sleep as well :) | 02:42 |
| akk | shapr: Heh, alas, no. I've had it a long time, gathering dust, thought I'd update it and play with it. | 02:43 |
| Disconnect | akk: get the 2006 os | 02:43 |
| shapr | akk: Well, if you don't want yours, I'd love to have another =) | 02:43 |
| * nomis waves to akk. | 02:43 | |
| akk | hi, nomis | 02:43 |
| ferenc | i hope you guys check this site too: http://test.maemo.org/applications/ | 02:43 |
| ferenc | not too many OS 2007 apps there yet though | 02:43 |
| shapr | I want to have a beowulf cluster of Nokia tablets in my backpack, you see... | 02:44 |
| akk | shapr: I'll keep you in mind! I've thought maybe I should sell it, but I really want to like it ... | 02:44 |
| NickDe | alright n800 in RD mode | 02:44 |
| Disconnect | nice | 02:44 |
| ferenc | we (maemo2midgard team) would appreciate all your feedbacks. | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: it's looking good, but the orange search box is perhaps a bit strong. | 02:45 |
| ferenc | also check the User Manual please, if you have the nerves. | 02:45 |
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| NickDe | hey quick question how the hell do I get this thing into stand by mode?! | 02:45 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: hmm :( i like it. | 02:45 |
| NickDe | the n800 | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | No, must *really* go to bed (argh, but I'm reading the bora porting guide) | 02:45 |
| NickDe | so I dont have to keep shutting it off to save batt power | 02:45 |
| gpd | i'm hitting all the newbie questions here - Escape in osso-xterm? | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: I dunno, the contrast with the white isn't particularly strong on this Mac OS X box. | 02:45 |
| NickDe | the 770 would slip into sleep with the cover being placed on .. so whats the equiv. for the n800 | 02:45 |
| NickDe | ? | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | You got a manual? | 02:45 |
| NickDe | Jaffa: :) yes... | 02:46 |
| ferenc | in case we have IE users: we know there is an issue with the rendering, but will be looking into that. | 02:46 |
| NickDe | I will rtfm | 02:46 |
| nomis | NickDe: and please tell if you find out. I don't have an N800, but curious about this question as well. | 02:46 |
| arj | I was wondering how people mount their n770 in the car, either for canola or for the GPS thing | 02:46 |
| NickDe | nomis: will do | 02:46 |
| Disconnect | arj: poorly, in my case :) | 02:47 |
| NickDe | comp usa had 2gb sdcards for 49.99 today..so I snagged 2 | 02:47 |
| arj | isn't there anyone who have made something for that? | 02:47 |
| NickDe | yay 4 gb of storage | 02:47 |
| Disconnect | NickDe: that seems high | 02:48 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: ? | 02:48 |
| NickDe | 39.99 more like it | 02:48 |
| NickDe | for 2gb sd cards | 02:48 |
| NickDe | figured it was a good enough deal | 02:48 |
| Disconnect | http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Memory-SDSDB-2048-A10-Retail-Package/dp/B0009RGLSE | 02:48 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: The porting guide for Maemo 3.0 says libconic is preferred over libosso-ic, but the Monkey Bubble one still talks about libosso-ic-preload in LD_PRELOAD. Is there a libconic equivalent? | 02:48 |
| shapr | ferenc: How about a tiny "What's the difference?" link next to the IT OS <select>? Even if it just pops up a table showing the exact release date of each OS, it would help the confused. | 02:49 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: meg | 02:49 |
| NickDe | *meh | 02:49 |
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| Disconnect | was expecting less actually. but if amazon says $35 I1d expect to find $25 somewhere reasonable | 02:50 |
| gpd | if I want to ssh in - do i just passwd user - and ssh away? | 02:51 |
| shapr | gpd: -l root and password is rootme | 02:51 |
| shapr | gpd: That's with OS2006 at least | 02:51 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: did I read correctly that test.maemo.org/applications/ had ApplicationCatalog2006 moved over to it at some point? What about ...Wip (since I notice the "under development")... When did it happen, since it's missing Sylpheed :-( | 02:51 |
| gpd | shapr: works with N800 too :) thanks again | 02:52 |
| gpd | presumbably there is no danger in changing that password? | 02:52 |
| gpd | I am slightly too paranoid about bricking this thing atm | 02:53 |
| Jaffa | With all the fuss about the N800, it's easy to forget just how fab the 770 is. Just look at the quality of the screen on http://bleb.org/photos/image/ZH4rD0n/DSCF5365.JPG :-D | 02:53 |
| ferenc | shapr: i have heard that the guys are going to prepare that html (and .csv) file next week. | 02:53 |
| Jaffa | Oh, can anyone with an N800 check if the online output of VidConvert works with it? | 02:54 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: i can't help you there, sorry, i have no clue :( | 02:54 |
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| gpd | Jaffa: if you give me instructions i can - no idea what you are talking about however | 02:55 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: ok, no probs | 02:55 |
| Jaffa | gpd: hang on, I'll send you a link once a test vid's finished converting. | 02:55 |
| shapr | gpd: Once you've installed sshd, I think there's danger in *not* changing the password.. since every device is has the same login/pw. | 02:55 |
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| Jaffa | gpd: http://bleb.org/cgi-bin/vidconvert/status.cgi?key=zozoum - open that in the browser, it's still converting, but once it's complete you'll end up with a video. Click on the video and select "Open" from the dialogue which pops up. | 02:56 |
| gpd | shapr: aye - just checking no wierd behaviour | 02:56 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: about app catalog: we migrated the ApplicationCatalog2006 content. | 02:56 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: ah, OK, cool. Then "downgraded" stuff which was less stable than others? | 02:56 |
| disq | <- psyched | 02:57 |
| ferenc | you can enter sylpheed there and set status "development". | 02:57 |
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| ferenc | Jaffa: sorry i did not get it. | 02:57 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: I was just wondering how the statuses were determined, but that makes sense. Thanks. | 02:57 |
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| gpd | so should i ssh in as root - or set a password for user and use that? | 03:01 |
| ferenc | i am off now. good night from this part of the world. | 03:01 |
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| gpd | Jaffa: your video is opening... | 03:01 |
| Jaffa | gpd: the video conversion's finished so going to http://bleb.org/cgi-bin/vidconvert/status.cgi?key=zozoum should now just have a nice clear AVI available | 03:01 |
| Jaffa | Ah, cool :) | 03:01 |
| gpd | yup seems clear and fast | 03:01 |
| Jaffa | It should be a video you recognise | 03:01 |
| Jaffa | Excellent. | 03:01 |
| gpd | yes -- the reason i bought this thing today | 03:01 |
| jtokash | man, I should have put my blog url in that video | 03:02 |
| jtokash | it's getting a lot of playtime | 03:02 |
| gpd | you should have done a commentary for 15 minutes of fame | 03:02 |
| jtokash | blog.tokash.org, btw | 03:02 |
| Jaffa | jtokash: sorry, it was the first YouTube video which came to mind ;-) | 03:03 |
| jtokash | I didn't want to wake the kids | 03:03 |
| jtokash | oh, no, don't be sorry | 03:03 |
| gpd | which reminds me i haven't tried my camera yet | 03:03 |
| jtokash | I'm glad! | 03:03 |
| Disconnect | gpd: try it and let me know your opinion | 03:03 |
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| gpd | opened the camera -- application starts - very nice | 03:04 |
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| gpd | a little dark in here so green flecks - light on now = better | 03:04 |
| jtokash | It's shocking to me that they didn't include a video or photo recording app on the n800 | 03:05 |
| jtokash | just crazy | 03:05 |
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| jtokash | Someone left a comment on my blog saying that the blue lights under the dpad will not have an api, but the camera does | 03:05 |
| Disconnect | `better` or `decent`? | 03:05 |
| Disconnect | camera is v4l | 03:05 |
| gpd | well - it isn't fantastic - but still fairly low light levels | 03:05 |
| Disconnect | ...fwiw even in decent light mine looks like hell | 03:06 |
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| gpd | no in daylight it looks 'pretty good' | 03:07 |
| Disconnect | very festive. crisp, full of glitter. | 03:07 |
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| gpd | there is a tendecny to have green flecks to the sides without good light | 03:08 |
| Jaffa | jtokash: nice easy thing for someone to start with. | 03:08 |
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| Milhouse | Anyone plugged the N800 into a windows USB port? Does it mention the connected device is only USB 1.1 etc and could perform better (blah blah)? If not, it's probably a USB2 device :) | 03:10 |
| gpd | what chat clients support video on linux? does gaim? | 03:10 |
| gpd | Milhouse: will plug in now | 03:11 |
| gpd | Bus 003 Device 007: ID 0421:04c3 Nokia Mobile Phones | 03:12 |
| danguy | can you give as a -vv of that? | 03:12 |
| gpd | not sureusb 3-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7 | 03:12 |
| gpd | Vendor: Nokia Model: N800 Rev: 0316 | 03:13 |
| Milhouse | do you have a 770 for comparison? | 03:13 |
| gpd | no | 03:13 |
| Milhouse | let me plug mine in | 03:13 |
| disq | so i guess nokia will be releasing a N820 just a few days after my N800's screen starts (it probably will, same screen) to lose sensitivity :P | 03:13 |
| gpd | not sure how to check usb1 or 2 in linux | 03:13 |
| gpd | ok lshw says: | 03:14 |
| gpd | capabilities: usb-2.00 scsi emulated scsi-host | 03:14 |
| gpd | configuration: driver=usb-storage maxpower=50mA speed=480.0MB | 03:14 |
| gpd | that is fairly convincingly usb2 | 03:14 |
| c0ffee | can't sleep :( | 03:14 |
| WillySilly | hmmm, maybe telepathy might be new enough to support a video conf app | 03:14 |
| WillySilly | although I doubt it | 03:15 |
| jtokash | I'll check on windows usb | 03:15 |
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| Milhouse | cool! | 03:15 |
| Milhouse | just having to reboot my 770 as it wont mount usb while the mmc is in use - grrrr | 03:16 |
| gpd | WillySilly: is there a client you would recommend for video chat on linux. I see telepathy-gnome package - but that isn't going to help | 03:16 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: I've been busy updating public-facing 770 stuff (e.g. http://www.bleb.org/software/770/ ) just in case that helps sway it. | 03:17 |
| Jaffa | But now I'm knackered. | 03:17 |
| Jaffa | G'night. | 03:17 |
| jtokash | I can't see anything indicating usb1 or 2 | 03:17 |
| c0ffee | gn8 Jaffa (again) :) | 03:17 |
| WillySilly | there is that script that the telepathy guys used for the OLPC, but I dont know if all the telepathy components are new enough on the n800 | 03:17 |
| gpd | apt-cache search video chat gives telepahty-gabble and wengophone | 03:18 |
| gpd | [i'm talking about regular desktop ubuntu btw] | 03:19 |
| WillySilly | gpd: have commandline on the n800? | 03:19 |
| gpd | WillySilly: yes - i have osso-xterm running | 03:19 |
| gpd | doesn't look like the N800 can use power off usb either :( | 03:20 |
| WillySilly | i think telepathy-stream-engine -v will give you the version | 03:20 |
| WillySilly | or that might be verbose | 03:20 |
| gpd | it is just running with lots of messages | 03:21 |
| jtokash | gpd, what did you do to get osso-xterm working? | 03:21 |
| jtokash | I have it installed but it doesn't work | 03:21 |
| Milhouse | just mounted my 770, went into Device Manager drill down into Universal Serial Bus controllers, expanded the "USB Mass Storage Device" for the 770 and clicked on the Detail tab - if it doesn't mention USB2 (which it didnt, but did for my USB2 card reader) then it's not USB2 | 03:21 |
| jtokash | Maybe I installed from the wrong place. | 03:21 |
| gpd | jtokash: i went to application manager - put in the repository.maemo.org with the new distribution | 03:21 |
| Milhouse | on the Detail tab scroll through the device capabilities - it will hopefully mention USB2 in the capabilities for the N800 | 03:22 |
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| gpd | WillySilly: -h --version -V all do the same | 03:22 |
| gpd | still not sure how to have a video chat with myself to a linux desktop | 03:23 |
| jtokash | oh, ok, cool, thanks | 03:23 |
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| framerate | greetings, guys | 03:25 |
| Milhouse | N800 hardware details now on maemo.org: http://maemo.org/faq/faq.html#faq-N10119 | 03:25 |
| Milhouse | CPU is a 330Mhz TI OMAP2420 | 03:25 |
| framerate | I just got an N800 trying to get into maemo development and usage, is that possible at this time or are we playing the waiting game? | 03:26 |
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| gpd | framerate: I just got mine about 3 hours ago -- never had a 770. i have xterm and ssh running so far | 03:26 |
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| framerate | gpd point me towards xterm, that would awesome to get running | 03:27 |
| Jaffa | framerate: Maemo 3.0 "bora" has been uploaded to maemo.org | 03:27 |
| bmidgley | Jaffa: the sdk or a flash image? | 03:27 |
| framerate | I'm way new to this... what do I need to know to get it working? | 03:28 |
| framerate | Am i flashing internal memory? | 03:28 |
| gpd | framerate: if you go to application manager - you can add the maemo repository | 03:28 |
| gpd | no - nothing that serious | 03:28 |
| framerate | k I must have typed it wrong, I get a "can't update list" error or something similar | 03:28 |
| Jaffa | bmidgley: the SDK, no flash image of OS 2007 or any Maemo 3.0-based OS for Nokia 770s yet | 03:28 |
| gpd | before you add the maemo stuff i *think* you have to setup 'the red pill' | 03:28 |
| gpd | i certainly did - but not sure if that was entirely necessary | 03:29 |
| * gpd blindly leads the blind | 03:29 | |
| bmidgley | anyone confirming that the n800 has 2006 second edition? | 03:29 |
| gpd | no OS 2007 | 03:29 |
| Jaffa | bmidgley: No, it has OS 2007 | 03:29 |
| framerate | 'the read pill'? haha I hate being "blind". Someone fix me! :) | 03:29 |
| WillySilly | It has the 2007 edition | 03:29 |
| bmidgley | ah nice | 03:29 |
| gpd | framerate: in application manager - click new... then wipe the http:// from the location -- and put in matrix --- then click on another field... then press cancel | 03:30 |
| gpd | choose the red pill | 03:30 |
| framerate | haha you're not serious | 03:30 |
| gpd | it seems i am | 03:30 |
| framerate | holy shit | 03:31 |
| framerate | you are! | 03:31 |
| gpd | however, - before you do that | 03:31 |
| gpd | i would try without and see if it works | 03:31 |
| gpd | go to application manager - then add catalogue | 03:31 |
| mcpeepants | i'm just wondering, can the new 800 be charged over the usb port? | 03:31 |
| gpd | mcpeepants: i am plugged into usb now and awaiting confirmation | 03:31 |
| shackan | Milhouse, http://www.nokia.com/N800 sends me to a N80 page | 03:32 |
| Milhouse | OMAP2420 has hardware that allows "Full motion video encoding or decoding at rates up to VGA at 30 frames per second" - sweet, lets hope it's documented! | 03:32 |
| gpd | the battery icon shows 'estimated battery time left' :( | 03:32 |
| Milhouse | yes, it's not live yet - my guess is it will be after the official announcement at CES | 03:32 |
| mcpeepants | ok, that would have been a nice feature | 03:32 |
| framerate | the red pull thing is awesome... Where can I get more info on what that is? | 03:32 |
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| gpd | mcpeepants: my battery is not going down - but can't be sure yet | 03:32 |
| gpd | framerate: try adding the maemo repositry with bora distribution before you do that | 03:33 |
| gpd | i wonder if it is necessary | 03:33 |
| framerate | I already did it >.> | 03:33 |
| gpd | did it update? | 03:33 |
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| framerate | It didn't do anything that I can see | 03:33 |
| framerate | I clicked it and it went away | 03:33 |
| gpd | did you put components free non-free? | 03:34 |
| framerate | Wait, what is the components field supposed to say? | 03:34 |
| Milhouse | OMPA2420 has "Dual slot MMC/SD/SDIO transceivers - powered independently" so it's possible the SD slots are SDIO compatible | 03:34 |
| gpd | framerate: free non-free | 03:34 |
| shackan | can the N800 read pdf files ? | 03:35 |
| gpd | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode | 03:35 |
| gpd | shackan: yes the manual is pdf | 03:36 |
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| shackan | great | 03:36 |
| |tbb| | f | 03:36 |
| |tbb| | is there a navkit available for the n800 | 03:36 |
| framerate | gpd: that red pill mode just made my night :) that's a sweet easter egg | 03:37 |
| Milhouse | I'm sure accessories such as the nav kit will become available for the N800 once the N800 is announced | 03:37 |
| framerate | now to find that terminal :) | 03:38 |
| gpd | framerate: indeed - very cool... not sure exactly what it does though | 03:38 |
| framerate | |tbb| I'm looking for maemo mapper for my bluetooth gps | 03:38 |
| framerate | if I figure anything out I'll let you know :( | 03:38 |
| gpd | I am annoyed that I can't find a telepathy client that supports video on regular linux | 03:39 |
| framerate | what is the definition of the "components" field? is it just a filter? | 03:39 |
| |tbb| | ididnt ask anything about maemo mapper | 03:39 |
| framerate | oh, I thought you meant navkit software my bad | 03:40 |
| |tbb| | i got the navkit allready for the n770 | 03:40 |
| gpd | framerate: sort of - it is the same with all debian repositories - eg. main free non-free etc | 03:40 |
| * framerate is a gentoo user o.O | 03:40 | |
| gpd | framerate: in that case could you search for a video enabled xmpp client in your source tree | 03:41 |
| gpd | I'm seeing gossip landell cohoba gnomeUI - none of which have screenshots showing video | 03:42 |
| framerate | gpd - check http://gentoo-portage.com/ | 03:42 |
| framerate | What is the terminal under on this repos? | 03:42 |
| gpd | osso-xterm | 03:43 |
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| bmidgley | does the n800 use the same battery? | 03:43 |
| ntrs | Hi all | 03:43 |
| c0ffee | yes | 03:43 |
| ntrs | Can I use the tablet 2006 applications on the new n800? N800 has tables 2007 OS | 03:43 |
| c0ffee | some | 03:44 |
| c0ffee | you have to try it out | 03:44 |
| Tak | anyone have details about the developer device program? | 03:44 |
| c0ffee | only that a 'team' will contact developers this time | 03:45 |
| c0ffee | and it probably will be based on the contributions to maemo so far | 03:45 |
| c0ffee | and the list is said to be not yet complete | 03:45 |
| cduv | anyone knows any alternative to connect vpn to Microsoft networks with the N770? thanks | 03:46 |
| c0ffee | depends on what software your microsoft network uses, right? | 03:46 |
| dragorn | Theres a ton of vpn software out there. Figure out what your net uses and then look for something compatible. | 03:46 |
| cduv | c0ffe: ISA server | 03:47 |
| c0ffee | no idea what that is | 03:47 |
| c0ffee | there's a vpnc client (cisco ipsec) and a openvpn client available | 03:47 |
| c0ffee | shouldn't be too difficult to compile the pptp client | 03:47 |
| dragorn | find out the protos and algos and then search for an OSS implementation | 03:47 |
| cduv | c0ffe: ok, I'll take a look on them | 03:48 |
| shackan | Tak, from the topic it seems it's a no-go unless you already owned a 770 and developed on it and thus contributed something :\ | 03:48 |
| gpd | I have found gaim-vv - a video chat plugin for gaim, maybe this will work with the N800 chat client | 03:48 |
| dragorn | Took me a year to get a 770, and about 8 hours to fix the kismet bugs once I did. :P Hopefully the 800 "just works" | 03:48 |
| |tbb| | did u port the kismet? | 03:49 |
| * dragorn wrote the kismet. :P | 03:49 | |
| framerate | Any good GPS software I should look for? N800 compatible? | 03:49 |
| dragorn | framerate: maemo is all I know of. | 03:49 |
| dragorn | framerate: err. maemomapper, that is. | 03:50 |
| c0ffee | maemo-mapper | 03:50 |
| c0ffee | and the gps software nokia sells | 03:50 |
| framerate | Is maemo-mapper confirmed on a N800? I'm working on that right now | 03:50 |
| dragorn | porting roadnav might be fairly trivial, but you're limited to the tiger public vector US data... you could do worse, but it's not that great, either | 03:51 |
| c0ffee | there aren't many people owning an 800 yet | 03:51 |
| * gpd gives up looking for linux video chat clients :( | 03:51 | |
| framerate | I know c0ffee, just wishful thinking :) | 03:51 |
| dragorn | that would be porting roadnav to maemo, not from 770 to 800 | 03:51 |
| framerate | main apps I want are maemo mapper, terminal, and doom :) | 03:51 |
| gpd | how do i tell if my usb cable is powering the device? | 03:52 |
| |tbb| | is it possible to use the gps unit which is shipped with the navkit with kismet? | 03:52 |
| dragorn | gpd: shell, cat /proc/acpi probably. or look at see if it kicks to charger mode. | 03:52 |
| dragorn | |tbb|: No idea. If gpsd talks to it, then yes. I'd expect it to talk NMEA, no reason for it to do something else. | 03:52 |
| dragorn | |tbb|: Kismet at the moment requires gpsd still. The next release in a few days will still be the stable codebase, and require gpsd still. Eventually I'll finish the newcore base and add direct serial drivers to it for gps to make it behave more like maemomapper | 03:53 |
| gpd | no sign of /proc/acpi - but now that the cable is not connected the screen is blanking more -- so I suspect USB now charges :D | 03:53 |
| framerate | oh, and gaim.. that was the other one | 03:54 |
| dragorn | and because gpsd is often anything but stable and I'm tired of depending on it | 03:54 |
| dragorn | gpd: that was just a guess. Might look around /proc more for apm/acpi info | 03:54 |
| framerate | Am I correct to assume this repos for bora will be updated as software is updated? | 03:55 |
| gpd | i am surprised that /var/log only has wtmp | 03:55 |
| bmidgley | i will love having an IM client I can scribble into like doodles in gaim for yahoo | 03:56 |
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| gpd | bmidgley: have you found one for the n800/770? | 03:57 |
| gpd | that reminds me - i should look at the gizmoproject | 03:57 |
| bmidgley | there is a port of gaim that should do it | 03:57 |
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| bmidgley | haven't tried it | 03:57 |
| gpd | ok - when you plug the usb cable in the battery icon says 'connected via usb' - again not proof | 03:58 |
| c0ffee | what are you trying to proof? | 03:58 |
| gpd | that the N800 can be powered by USB -- I thought it was under question | 03:58 |
| gpd | isn't it true that the 770 can't ? | 03:59 |
| mcpeepants | gpd: what does dmesg if u plug in the usb? | 03:59 |
| gpd | or am I talking pants | 03:59 |
| c0ffee | it can't | 03:59 |
| gpd | [ 7978.672546] g_file_storage gadget: high speed config #1 | 03:59 |
| gpd | [ 7982.171203] EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled | 03:59 |
| gpd | [ 8044.496856] omapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: setting update mode to disabled | 03:59 |
| |tbb| | what processor is in the n800 will it be much faster then the n770 one? | 04:00 |
| c0ffee | it's a 330MHz ARM | 04:00 |
| c0ffee | see the FAQ on maemo.org | 04:00 |
| gpd | BogoMIPS : 320.37 | 04:00 |
| c0ffee | gpd, the usb power isn't enough to charge a nokia battery | 04:00 |
| gpd | c0ffee: but will it run off usb - without charging the battery? | 04:01 |
| c0ffee | i doubt that | 04:02 |
| c0ffee | because the power supply is cabled through the battery | 04:02 |
| |tbb| | what r for example the latest ipaq uses for a processor? | 04:02 |
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| bmidgley | xscale mostly | 04:03 |
| bmidgley | n770 was a TI not sure about the n800 | 04:03 |
| bmidgley | direct mhz comparisons aren't useful | 04:03 |
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| |tbb| | anyone run gpsd with the n770 | 04:03 |
| c0ffee | n800 is an omap2 | 04:04 |
| ssvb | bmidgley: it is OMAP2420 | 04:04 |
| c0ffee | 770 is omap1 | 04:04 |
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| NickDe | did anyone figure out how to put the n800 into standby? | 04:05 |
| ssvb | hmm, this s1d1374x seems to be also some epson video chip | 04:05 |
| bmidgley | i like having prefs so putting the cover on shuts down wireless | 04:06 |
| |tbb| | what the mylo uses | 04:07 |
| bmidgley | has anyone worked out a way to charge using a computer's usb port, like with an adapter? | 04:11 |
| c0ffee | it's probably not possible | 04:12 |
| gpd | c0ffee: charger for N800 says 5V 890mA | 04:13 |
| gpd | what is the USB 2 limit? | 04:14 |
| Milhouse | 500ma | 04:14 |
| gpd | craphouse | 04:14 |
| Milhouse | doesn't mean it wont charge, just that it might charge very slowly | 04:14 |
| c0ffee | it wont charge | 04:15 |
| c0ffee | because it's not wired to the battery | 04:15 |
| Milhouse | fair enough then :) | 04:15 |
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| lle | Milhouse: you can get 800mA from usb | 04:18 |
| Milhouse | I always thought the power limit over USB was 500ma | 04:18 |
| lle | the device has to specifically ask for it though | 04:18 |
| lle | 500mA is the default | 04:19 |
| Milhouse | k | 04:19 |
| c0ffee | ehrm | 04:19 |
| c0ffee | it can get 500 per standard | 04:19 |
| lle | initially you get less though | 04:19 |
| c0ffee | and the default is 100 | 04:19 |
| lle | 100 you get without registering with the host | 04:19 |
| lle | 500 you get after registering and 800 if you ask | 04:19 |
| c0ffee | anyway | 04:20 |
| c0ffee | even 800 is too little | 04:20 |
| lle | and some people draw over 1A regardless of any standards ;) | 04:20 |
| lle | that's ofcourse just asking for trouble | 04:21 |
| NickDe | there is no mention of standby in the manual for the n800 | 04:21 |
| NickDe | am I missing something here? | 04:21 |
| c0ffee | you can turn of wireless and the display | 04:22 |
| c0ffee | safes you tons of energy | 04:22 |
| c0ffee | the 770 could also go to sleep | 04:22 |
| bmidgley | NickDe: what menu do you get when tapping the power button? | 04:22 |
| c0ffee | i guess the 800 can as well | 04:22 |
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| framerate | dang looks like doom is a no-go on the 800 ; ; | 04:23 |
| gpd | menu on power button is: | 04:23 |
| NickDe | Lock touch screen and keys/Offline Mode/Lock Device/Switch Off | 04:23 |
| gpd | lock touch screen and keys | 04:23 |
| gpd | offline mode | 04:23 |
| gpd | lock device | 04:23 |
| gpd | switch off! | 04:23 |
| bmidgley | hmm no different | 04:23 |
| NickDe | does this thing not go to sleep? | 04:23 |
| framerate | Nick doesn't it go to sleep if you lock it and let it sit? | 04:24 |
| NickDe | hmm perhaps I guess | 04:24 |
| lle | NickDe: doesn't need to, specifically. power mgmt ought to be smart enough. | 04:24 |
| framerate | Or are you looking for a deeper sleep? | 04:24 |
| NickDe | I figured something similar to the 770 and putting its shield on | 04:24 |
| gpd | should i ssh in as 'user' or can i change the account name - or setup a new account? | 04:24 |
| c0ffee | lle, weren't you the guy that used to work at nokia? | 04:25 |
| bmidgley | can't apps still do stuff when the 770 cover is on? | 04:25 |
| lle | c0ffee: yeah, and will soon, again | 04:25 |
| daniels | whether the cover's on or not has no effect on sleep. if there's nothing to run, then the device will go to sleep. meaning, it can drop in and out of sleep a bajillion times per second. | 04:25 |
| c0ffee | lle, you wouldn't happen to have interesting insider info on the developer device program, you might want to share with me? :) | 04:25 |
| |tbb| | n8 all | 04:26 |
| lle | daniels: not bajillion ;) that would consume more power than full throttle all the time, at least that's how it was with 770 ;) | 04:26 |
| lle | c0ffee: no, unfortunately no ;) | 04:26 |
| daniels | lle: well, we're dynticking now | 04:26 |
| c0ffee | buuhuu :( | 04:26 |
| c0ffee | nokia is costing me a whole night of sleep | 04:27 |
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| daniels | lle: so i assume you're not going to be in early tomorrow then ;) | 04:28 |
| NickDe | lock screen and keys | 04:28 |
| NickDe | seems to put it into a standby mode | 04:28 |
| lle | daniels: oh I will ;) not planning to go to bed anymore, pointless :D | 04:28 |
| daniels | lle: ouch. | 04:28 |
| lle | daniels: woke up in the late afternoon, so no problem | 04:28 |
| gpd | is there a page or faq for things not to do on the tablet that I might do normally on a regular debian system? | 04:28 |
| daniels | lle: yeah, i woke up at 11pm on saturday. oops. | 04:29 |
| c0ffee | apt-get upgrade can lead to troubles | 04:29 |
| gpd | ok - what about user accounts? | 04:29 |
| lle | daniels: hehe, also took a two hour nap watching the spanish league soccer game | 04:30 |
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| lle | not that it was boring or anything, or at least I wouldn't know | 04:32 |
| c0ffee | :) | 04:32 |
| c0ffee | i meanwhile reached a point where i think it's pointless to continue to watch my maillog | 04:32 |
| framerate | So all these apps need to be ported over from 770->800 correct? | 04:35 |
| c0ffee | probably | 04:35 |
| c0ffee | same happened at os2005->os2006 | 04:36 |
| framerate | maemo mapper, doom, gaim, other apps I want :) | 04:36 |
| framerate | I guess I'll just keep checking back on the repos | 04:36 |
| daniels | c0ffee: it's 4:36am in finland. the developer device people are probably asleep, even if it was going to happen today (not that any of us know) ... | 04:36 |
| c0ffee | i know i know :) | 04:36 |
| c0ffee | but i can't sleep | 04:37 |
| c0ffee | so i can watch as well the maillog | 04:37 |
| c0ffee | it's more interesting than irc | 04:37 |
| lle | now that's a compliment | 04:37 |
| framerate | hmm has irssi been ported to 770 or 800? | 04:38 |
| c0ffee | it has a higher lines/minute count | 04:38 |
| c0ffee | and it mentions sex and stuff about 100 times more often :) | 04:38 |
| c0ffee | to 770, yes | 04:38 |
| framerate | awesome.. hopefully that comes to 800 soon too. | 04:38 |
| framerate | I could probably install the dev kit and compile these myself, no? | 04:39 |
| c0ffee | sure | 04:39 |
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| framerate | that may not be a bad idea.. don't want to step on any toes though | 04:39 |
| c0ffee | hu? | 04:40 |
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| c0ffee | maybe another attempt to sleep... | 04:49 |
| c0ffee | at least 4h left | 04:49 |
| framerate | for the developer devices? | 04:51 |
| c0ffee | to get some sleep | 04:52 |
| framerate | oh ^^ | 04:53 |
| gpd | framerate: wrt irssi - can you not ssh to something and irssi from there (for now)? | 04:54 |
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| c0ffee | that's more reliable anyway btw :) | 04:54 |
| c0ffee | irssi + screen <3 | 04:55 |
| gpd | c0ffee++ | 04:55 |
| framerate | haha yeah I have screen + irssi running 24/7 ^^ | 04:56 |
| framerate | just wanted to play with my new toy! | 04:56 |
| gpd | framerate: what else have you installed so far? | 04:56 |
| framerate | just term and ssh | 04:56 |
| gpd | i have been distracted with tedious things like eating | 04:56 |
| framerate | tried to install old versions of doom and gaim but no love, guess I have to wait for recompilation | 04:57 |
| framerate | haha yeah, I'm getting my hair cut | 04:57 |
| c0ffee | gaim never really worked anyway :/ | 04:57 |
| framerate | never worked? what was the issues? | 04:57 |
| gpd | i need to import my vcards into the contact thingy - we'll see how that goes | 04:57 |
| c0ffee | 2.5 billion ways to make it segfault | 04:57 |
| framerate | I tried but blackberry wouldn't transfer address book over bluetooth :( | 04:58 |
| gpd | if you find a way to do video chat from N800->Ubuntu Edgy let me know | 04:58 |
| c0ffee | doesn't gchat work? | 04:59 |
| gpd | gchat? | 04:59 |
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| gpd | c0ffee: you mean xchat-gnome? | 05:00 |
| c0ffee | google-chat | 05:01 |
| framerate | maybe he means google | 05:01 |
| gpd | for Linux? | 05:01 |
| c0ffee | dunno | 05:01 |
| c0ffee | haven't tried | 05:01 |
| gpd | not available | 05:01 |
| c0ffee | no 800 here yet :( | 05:01 |
| gpd | c0ffee: i am talking about on the desktop side | 05:01 |
| gpd | the 800 video client works nicely - but I don't want to boot into windows to test it | 05:02 |
| gpd | http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html | 05:02 |
| gpd | they say gaim or psi | 05:02 |
| c0ffee | hum | 05:03 |
| c0ffee | there's somewhere a working linux client | 05:03 |
| c0ffee | i pasted it once here | 05:03 |
| gpd | c0ffee: you sure it wasn't under wine? | 05:04 |
| lle | isn't gaim 2.0 supposed to have voice and maybe even video? | 05:05 |
| c0ffee | doesn't at least here | 05:06 |
| gpd | lle: not vanilla - there is a gaim-vv - which i downloaded | 05:06 |
| lle | right | 05:06 |
| gpd | but not buit it yet | 05:06 |
| framerate | man I'm gonna go nuts waiting for 800 stuff to hit repos | 05:06 |
| c0ffee | http://www.jabbin.com/int/ | 05:06 |
| gpd | do we think that the gizmoproject deb for 770 would work on 800? | 05:06 |
| lle | I'm just wondering why it's taking so long, considering that several commercial entities have successfully created voip and video clients.. and knowing how superior open source is... | 05:07 |
| NickDe | a friend of mine just got the n800 as well..we are going to test the video conferencing capabilities | 05:07 |
| NickDe | this should be interesting | 05:07 |
| gpd | c0ffee: no video for that either? | 05:08 |
| c0ffee | maybe the beta version? | 05:08 |
| gpd | roadmap says version 3 video and voice | 05:08 |
| c0ffee | 2.0 supports gtalk voice | 05:09 |
| c0ffee | grrrrr | 05:13 |
| c0ffee | forgot to move 1gig of mp3s out of my home | 05:14 |
| c0ffee | i was wondering all the time now what took the backup so long | 05:14 |
| daniels | crap, 5:14am | 05:14 |
| daniels | lle: tbf, farsight has been around roughly forever, but it never got integrated due to gaim politics (gaim-vv is a fork that's been around for ages, and apparently the support got integrated in gaim2) | 05:15 |
| daniels | lle: but, linux webcam support is crap, and im support for webcams in general is crap. | 05:15 |
| c0ffee | hum | 05:15 |
| c0ffee | most supported webcams expose a nice v4l2 interface | 05:16 |
| c0ffee | gnome-meeting uses sip meanwhile btw | 05:16 |
| c0ffee | shouldn't be too difficult to make it use the jabber transport | 05:16 |
| daniels | most supported webcams -> both of them | 05:17 |
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| c0ffee | i'd volunteer doing that if i get a developer device :) | 05:17 |
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| pahartik | c0ffee: Ekiga used to be known as GnomeMeeting | 05:18 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 05:18 |
| c0ffee | i'll start to memorize all the fancy new names ppl invent | 05:18 |
| c0ffee | sure | 05:18 |
| pahartik | c0ffee: good plan :) | 05:19 |
| gpd | bah jabbin won't connect to gmail | 05:19 |
| gpd | and it looks like psi with modifications | 05:19 |
| c0ffee | ekiga, aka the artist formerly known as the sign, gnome-meeting | 05:19 |
| c0ffee | it's a psi fork | 05:20 |
| c0ffee | and did you install the 2.0 (beta)? | 05:20 |
| gpd | yes | 05:20 |
| c0ffee | did you follow the howto-gtalk? | 05:20 |
| gpd | and followed the setup instructions but no go | 05:21 |
| framerate | Is the 800 screen size identical size? And is there a good place to get screen protectors? | 05:21 |
| c0ffee | sucks to be you :) | 05:21 |
| gpd | Authentication error: no appropriate mechanism available for given security settings -- maybe ssl should be off | 05:21 |
| c0ffee | maybe not compiled against libssl? | 05:22 |
| c0ffee | so | 05:22 |
| gpd | no - it required that i installed libssl | 05:22 |
| c0ffee | but now i really go to bed | 05:22 |
| gpd | cheers c0ffee | 05:23 |
| gpd | well it looks like ekiga supports video - but it is SIP - so can i connect to that from N800 chat? | 05:25 |
| daniels | guh. if i'm awake, i want music. but i think cranking dubstep at 5:27am would get me thrown out of the apartment for good. | 05:27 |
| daniels | (had a radio show on loud enough to make random things in the bathroom vibrate until 3am.) | 05:27 |
| gpd | daniels: one word: Sennheiser | 05:28 |
| daniels | gpd: yeah, they're at work | 05:29 |
| gpd | can i use a gizmo project account as a sip phone account for ekiga? | 05:31 |
| gpd | vcard v 2.0 cards importing into contacts :) | 05:39 |
| gpd | is it possible to get the mail client to subscribe to imap folders other than INBOX ? | 05:42 |
| jtokash | Just talked to canola guy (handful). He says they have it working on the n800 and will release it when it's been better tested. | 05:44 |
| gpd | jtokash: imap folders? | 05:44 |
| lle | oh for fucks sake. isn't there really any way to figure out the path from a file descriptor? | 05:45 |
| daniels | lle: why would there be? | 05:46 |
| lle | daniels: because I'd need that | 05:46 |
| daniels | lle: then your design loses | 05:46 |
| lle | these new idiotic openat functions are a royal pain | 05:46 |
| daniels | lle: what happens when you have hardlinks? bindmounts? chroots? what happens when the file's been moved -- original or new name? what happens when the file's been unlinked? | 05:46 |
| lle | daniels: all those things don't matter | 05:47 |
| lle | at least not that much and at least not right now | 05:47 |
| lle | the *at functions get a dirfd and the paths are then relative to that | 05:47 |
| lle | now with sb2 I'm trying to do the fancy ass path mappings | 05:48 |
| daniels | lle: well, it's tough to say that they don't matter when four of the five questions will result in not getting a working path ;) | 05:48 |
| lle | ;) | 05:48 |
| lle | GRRH. | 05:48 |
| gpd | I seem to have a bunch of updates in my application manager - are these safe to upate? or are they replacements for core versions from meamo repository? | 05:48 |
| lle | maybe I need to think about this for a second | 05:48 |
| lle | daniels: I'm assuming that during a build most of the things you listed are not gonna be happening | 05:49 |
| lle | might be incorrect assumption, but I'd like to at least test it | 05:49 |
| daniels | lle: sure, it's a nice simple case, but it's hard to define an api that has tons of gaping holes where things simply don't work as you'd expect | 05:50 |
| daniels | (otoh, that didn't stop xlib ...) | 05:50 |
| lle | hehe | 05:50 |
| daniels | lle: and, btw, since maemo dev is still so bloody i386-centric, i have an i386 chroot in my work machine, and /home is bind-mounted across. :) | 05:50 |
| lle | that's YOUR loss, not mine :D | 05:50 |
| lle | and anyway, I think this whole thing might actually not be a problem | 05:51 |
| daniels | hey, scratchbox is your fault. | 05:51 |
| lle | daniels: I take full responsibility and shove to the nearest trash bin | 05:51 |
| daniels | heh | 05:51 |
| lle | sb2 is my apology to all sentient beings | 05:51 |
| daniels | your idea of an apology is writing your own build system? ;) | 05:52 |
| lle | yup | 05:52 |
| daniels | ouch | 05:52 |
| lle | at least it's painful | 05:52 |
| daniels | true, true | 05:52 |
| lle | regardless of that, I now just realized that the dirfd is acquired somehow, and THAT gets mapped | 05:53 |
| lle | and since the *at functions only use the dirfd in case of relative paths, I can just ignore it for absolute ones | 05:53 |
| lle | so I might get off lucky | 05:53 |
| gpd | no OPML import in rss reader? | 05:58 |
| lle | daniels: I've set a limit for myself, building sb2 must not take longer than 10 seconds. So even if it turns out to be another evil son of a bitch, it won't kill too many kittens each time somebody compiles it. | 06:02 |
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| daniels | lle: eww. why would you want to compile sb? | 06:03 |
| * gpd OPML is supported if you double click from the file manager | 06:04 | |
| daniels | lle: i get irritated every time i have to compile or otherwise fuck around with any part of my distribution that isn't x | 06:04 |
| daniels | (which includes the kernel. i hack the kernel a bit at work, and really honestly can't be arsed coming home to bugger around with my own kernel just to get things to work.) | 06:04 |
| lle | daniels: you sort of have to if you're developing it | 06:04 |
| lle | but I'm not expecting any sympathy | 06:05 |
| lle | daniels: you actually might benefit from sbox2 already, I think it builds xorg just fine | 06:06 |
| akk | Are 770 user questions okay here? (I'm having trouble getting a wifi connection, no essid broadcast on the ap) | 06:07 |
| framerate | Pretty sure those are find akk | 06:07 |
| framerate | I'm new here, but everyone seems pretty cool | 06:07 |
| daniels | lle: yeah, only problem is that the easiest way is to build a deb | 06:07 |
| daniels | lle: especially when I'm giving packages to other people | 06:08 |
| akk | The AP doesn't show up in the connections list even though it's 3 feet from the 770 | 06:08 |
| lle | daniels: true :( | 06:08 |
| akk | but it didn't show up on my laptop either, 'til I ran iwconfig essid blah key nnnnnnnnnn | 06:08 |
| shapr | gpd: sofia-sip runs on the 770 | 06:08 |
| daniels | lle: i do all my development and git in my normal environment, and the only thing I ever type in scratchbox is 'r', which does a lightning rebuild (rm obj-arm-linux-gnueabi/hw/kdrive/omap/Xomap && make -C obj-arm-linux-gnueabi && fakeroot debian/rules binary), so it's not too bad ;) | 06:08 |
| framerate | hmm I have opposite problem, my N800 picks up more points than I ever knew existed heh | 06:08 |
| akk | framerate: Yeah, it picks up several I didn't know about, but they're all keyed so I can't steal their connections. :-) | 06:09 |
| framerate | heh | 06:09 |
| akk | framerate: But I can't connect if I can't somehow specify an essid, and I don't see a way to do that. | 06:09 |
| framerate | well, WEP encryption is a joke, from an algorithm's standpoint... so I guess you COULD use them ^^ | 06:09 |
| framerate | you want to enter the ESSID without scanning? | 06:09 |
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| nok | does osso-xterm work now? | 06:10 |
| framerate | on N800? yes | 06:10 |
| akk | framerate: right, because it doesn't seem to see the AP when scanning (at least, doesn't list it) | 06:10 |
| framerate | I'm using 2007 (N800) but it looks like I can specify a ESSID in my control panel -> connectivity -> new | 06:11 |
| framerate | well, an SSID | 06:11 |
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| gpd | framerate: have you braved the updates in application manager? | 06:12 |
| framerate | updates where? | 06:12 |
| framerate | hah | 06:12 |
| nok | where do you install it from xterm? repostory.maemo.org, distribution: mistral? | 06:12 |
| nok | where doy ou install xterm from, i mean... | 06:12 |
| akk | framerate: Cool, I'll try there. I have a freshly flashed 2006. | 06:12 |
| shapr | framerate: Speaking of which, I want to port "The Last Nail in WEP's coffin" to maemo so I can read my email anywhere. | 06:12 |
| framerate | I haven't looked into algorithms for WEP :( But I know it's not too impressive... | 06:13 |
| framerate | I want to look at it (and related apps) soon | 06:13 |
| shapr | You can crack WEP in about 15 minutes from the average laptop. | 06:13 |
| akk | Assuming a lot of traffic. Ours doesn't have much. But I know it's not very secure. | 06:14 |
| framerate | gpd: which updates are you referring to? | 06:14 |
| shapr | akk: One packet | 06:14 |
| shapr | akk: That's all it needs. | 06:14 |
| gpd | framerate: in the application manager - go to main, check for updates, then it should give a bunch of new stuff | 06:14 |
| gpd | eg. alarmd 0.4.2 | 06:14 |
| shapr | akk: One packet, fifteen minutes - http://tapir.cs.ucl.ac.uk/bittau-wep.pdf | 06:15 |
| framerate | yeah I see that gpd, but I'm not sure those are upated to already installed apps, are they? | 06:15 |
| akk | shapr: Yow, that's worse than I'd read. | 06:15 |
| gpd | alarmd is installed at version 0.4.0 | 06:15 |
| shapr | WEP is dead. | 06:15 |
| shapr | But still the most popular encryption! | 06:15 |
| framerate | oh wow, so I have all that installed by default? | 06:16 |
| gpd | shapr: thanks for sofia-sip link - do you think that will install on N800? | 06:16 |
| akk | framerate: Hmm, it let me set up a connection, and then connected, but with a link-local address. :-( | 06:17 |
| gpd | akk: that happened to me -- but i had typed my wep key poorly | 06:18 |
| framerate | :( | 06:18 |
| framerate | gpd: these updates scare me hah | 06:18 |
| gpd | framerate: me too -- i disabled the maemo repository and am checking again | 06:18 |
| gpd | if they are official then i am happy | 06:18 |
| framerate | I just want GPS and DOOM :( | 06:18 |
| gpd | bah -- i have a garmin etrex color so i am not bothered | 06:19 |
| framerate | i have an external bluetooth GPS | 06:19 |
| framerate | one of th deal breakers for me to get a nokia | 06:19 |
| framerate | so I don't have to get out my laptop on the road | 06:19 |
| gpd | the external gps has no screen? | 06:19 |
| akk | framerate: Okay, I'll try retyping it ... nope, same problem. | 06:19 |
| gpd | or you want 'added funk'? | 06:19 |
| framerate | no, it's just a bluetooth reciever ^^ | 06:20 |
| akk | Maybe we're not serving dhcp (the laptops use static ip) | 06:20 |
| framerate | akk - that could be.. check router settings | 06:20 |
| gpd | framerate: when disabling the maemo those updates go away -- so i am not touching them! | 06:20 |
| framerate | hah good call | 06:21 |
| akk | framerate: I don't suppose there's a way to specify an address? I didn't see that in that control panel. | 06:21 |
| shapr | gpd: No clue | 06:21 |
| framerate | akk: not that I'd seen yet | 06:22 |
| gpd | akk: iirc you can set static ip in the connection window | 06:22 |
| gpd | framerate: so i changed the password for 'user' and can ssh and scp into now. weirdly all files seem to need to go into MyDocs not ~ | 06:22 |
| akk | gpd: Where in the connection window? | 06:23 |
| framerate | changed password for user? I haven't tried sshing yet | 06:23 |
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| akk | gpd: The one when it's trying to connect? | 06:23 |
| kakos | Does anyone know if there is any hope of some version of 2007 coming to the 770? | 06:23 |
| akk | Oh, there's an Advanced button. | 06:24 |
| gpd | akk: yes - just found it too | 06:25 |
| kakos | Oh, and does anyone know if the N800's USB port is powered or do we still need our injectors? | 06:25 |
| gpd | kakos: that was mentioned earlier - | 06:25 |
| framerate | oh wow.. just ssh'd into one of my boxes... and went full screen | 06:25 |
| framerate | gonna get a bluetooth keyboard and this terminal will rock my world | 06:25 |
| gpd | kakos: no power from usb -- it seems there is not enough amps from usb | 06:25 |
| kakos | Okay. Thanks. :) | 06:26 |
| akk | Yay! That did it -- thanks, framerate and gpd | 06:27 |
| framerate | :) | 06:27 |
| gpd | this scratchbox and sdk stuff - is there a graphical emulator of the device? like POSE? | 06:28 |
| * gpd is looking forward to python availability | 06:29 | |
| framerate | python is fun ^^ | 06:29 |
| daniels | gpd: you could make a skin for xoo if you were keen | 06:29 |
| Aleksandyr_ | mmmm, python. | 06:29 |
| * gpd reads about xoo | 06:30 | |
| * daniels sleeps. | 06:30 | |
| framerate | gpd: any idea the real release date for this thing? | 06:32 |
| bmidgley | ces | 06:32 |
| bmidgley | this week | 06:32 |
| gpd | what he said | 06:33 |
| bmidgley | compusa jumped the gun so we'd have something to talk about sooner | 06:33 |
| framerate | it was a real bitch to get it form my compusa | 06:34 |
| framerate | and I got a speeding ticket on the way there! | 06:34 |
| gpd | hah - i slid down to mine quite speedily after reading the story on digg | 06:34 |
| gpd | phoned their support line and they said they had 8 | 06:34 |
| framerate | I had to argue with the manager. I was like "trust me, you have it" | 06:34 |
| gpd | of course the staff had *no clue* | 06:34 |
| gpd | framerate: me too :) | 06:35 |
| framerate | She looked it up all rude, and then apologized | 06:35 |
| framerate | but couldn't find it | 06:35 |
| gpd | he 'had a look out the back' | 06:35 |
| framerate | they had in a "do not sell" room... but I made her look it up and she saw other stores sold it already | 06:35 |
| gpd | i thought - here we go... no chance of them getting it | 06:35 |
| framerate | ha and I had an hour and half drive.. no way I was going home empty handed | 06:35 |
| gpd | didn't even open the box -- just grabbed and ran before they changed their mind | 06:35 |
| gpd | one of the benefits of living in West Los Angeles I suppose | 06:36 |
| gpd | 8 minutes down the 405 | 06:36 |
| framerate | ha. I'm in Bloomington Indiana.. had to drive to Indianapolis | 06:36 |
| framerate | someone wake up the doom developer... call him on the phone. I need my fix! | 06:36 |
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| gpd | how much of wikipedia do you think you could get on this thing? | 06:38 |
| gpd | there is an offline version iirc | 06:38 |
| framerate | what do you mean? download? | 06:38 |
| gpd | i imagine it is /rather huge/ | 06:38 |
| gpd | i mean for when not within wifi range | 06:39 |
| gpd | hitch hikers guide style | 06:39 |
| gpd | large friendly letters... etc | 06:39 |
| framerate | I wouldn't dare try without one of those 4+ GB SD cards heh | 06:40 |
| gpd | well -- just the text probably wouldn't be too bad | 06:40 |
| gpd | 'web pack' downloads 6GB -- 3.8 million articles | 06:40 |
| framerate | dang | 06:41 |
| gpd | http://www.webaroo.com/ | 06:41 |
| gpd | ignore that last one -0- it is pocket pc... pos | 06:42 |
| framerate | the N800 needs more "fun" apps | 06:42 |
| framerate | I can't find anything to play with yet other than ssh and xterm :( | 06:43 |
| framerate | But I know I'm jumping the gun heh | 06:43 |
| bmidgley | what apps use the camera out of the box? | 06:43 |
| gpd | seemingly just the chat program | 06:43 |
| framerate | just chat I think | 06:43 |
| framerate | and my camera really sucks in quality | 06:43 |
| framerate | may be defective I dont know | 06:43 |
| gpd | still haven't found a desktop linux client so ignoring that | 06:43 |
| framerate | in slightly low lights I get ALL KINDS of artifacts on my camera | 06:44 |
| bmidgley | so it's google/jabber for video chat? | 06:44 |
| gpd | bmidgley: yes | 06:44 |
| ntrs | how do i su to root? | 06:45 |
| gpd | you can ssh root@yourip | 06:45 |
| bmidgley | sudo gainroot | 06:45 |
| bmidgley | has to be in dev mode iirc | 06:45 |
| framerate | anyone know how to manually edit cell phone dial up via terminal? | 06:45 |
| ntrs | how do I go in dev mode? | 06:45 |
| framerate | the # I need to dial is "wap.cingular" but it disables alpha input by default | 06:46 |
| bmidgley | hmm it's been a while :( | 06:46 |
| ntrs | also, will changing the user and root password break anything? | 06:46 |
| gpd | ntrs: seemingly not | 06:46 |
| ntrs | gpd, thanks | 06:47 |
| ntrs | I want to put bash in /usr/bin | 06:47 |
| ntrs | but it does not let me | 06:47 |
| jtokash | what's the best way to convert a dvd for the 770/n800? | 06:47 |
| jtokash | Can MediaConverter do it? | 06:48 |
| bmidgley | video conversion is a bit of a black art | 06:48 |
| gpd | jtokash: Jaffa was using vidconvert - whatever that is | 06:48 |
| bmidgley | it's been mostly figured out for the 770 but might differ for n800 | 06:48 |
| Aleksandyr_ | what library contains 'hildon_file_chooser_dialog_new'? | 06:48 |
| lle | hmm, sweet. wmaker decided to stop focusing on any window. | 06:49 |
| framerate | gpd: any luck finding VPN stuff for the 800 yet? | 06:49 |
| framerate | I need that for the wifi @ work | 06:49 |
| gpd | framerate: no - not looked | 06:49 |
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| gpd | http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps <-- xml | 06:50 |
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| bmidgley | is there much new stuff in menus for bluetooth? | 06:51 |
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| gpd | headphone socket on n800 is weird - regular headphones don't fit :( | 06:56 |
| gpd | mono only -- clearly needed for microphone - but normally smaller | 06:57 |
| gpd | crap that is really annoying 'cos the regular headphone fall out of my ears | 06:58 |
| myren | what!? no regular headphone jack? | 07:00 |
| myren | mega suxor. | 07:00 |
| framerate | are you sure gpd? looks normal, but no headphones here to check | 07:00 |
| gpd | well mine fits in - but only mono - left ear | 07:00 |
| framerate | weird | 07:01 |
| framerate | doesn't seem right | 07:01 |
| framerate | I swear it said "stereo headphone jack" on the box | 07:01 |
| gpd | yes - but the headset that comes with it has three | 07:01 |
| gpd | and not mono -- just left ear only | 07:01 |
| myren | i wonder if nokia just pooched something | 07:02 |
| Aleksandyr_ | gaaah, -lhildonfm instead of -lhildon-fm | 07:02 |
| jtokash | framerate, push harder | 07:02 |
| jtokash | seriously | 07:02 |
| framerate | huh? | 07:02 |
| gpd | hold the phone | 07:02 |
| gpd | not pushing in hard enough! | 07:02 |
| framerate | haha | 07:02 |
| framerate | oh boy | 07:03 |
| jtokash | I was surprised by how hard you have to push, but it seems to work | 07:03 |
| gpd | ya -- tis all good now | 07:03 |
| gpd | phew | 07:03 |
| gpd | need to grab a shoutcast list from somewhere | 07:03 |
| gpd | why it can't look that up for you ... | 07:04 |
| gpd | hmm.. add media stream to library... one at a time? | 07:04 |
| gpd | maybe OPML to the rescue | 07:05 |
| gpd | we need to bully webaroo into supporting us | 07:06 |
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| bmidgley | is the headphone jack a 2.5mm not 3.5mm? | 07:07 |
| ntrs | how can i change the default shell for xterm? | 07:08 |
| bmidgley | 2.5mm would allow for stereo plus mic if it's 4-conductor | 07:08 |
| * pahartik ponders about way to switch to mobile GPRS uplink over Bluetooth DUN automatically whenever wired ethernet uplink over Bluetooth PAN is out of range | 07:10 | |
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| * framerate wishes anything worked on the N800 o.O | 07:11 | |
| gpd | ntrs: isn't it just in /etc/passwd ? | 07:11 |
| ntrs | but I can't modify that file, right? permissions? | 07:11 |
| gpd | ntrs: if you install ssh - you can ssh in as root without needing dev mode | 07:13 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "chsh"? | 07:13 |
| ntrs | what is the root password? | 07:13 |
| gpd | rootme | 07:13 |
| gpd | woot! my first crash! | 07:14 |
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| gpd | ntrs: are you on N800? I don't see bash in the repos? | 07:16 |
| framerate | how did you crash? | 07:16 |
| ntrs | pahartik, I tried chsh but it says that /home/user/bash is an invalid shell | 07:16 |
| ntrs | gpd, yes n800, bash for n770 works fine | 07:17 |
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| gpd | ntrs: are you downloading the debs directly? | 07:17 |
| gpd | framerate: crashed after failing to play a shoutcast stream | 07:17 |
| ntrs | yes | 07:17 |
| ntrs | gpd, some of them directly, some of them from repos | 07:18 |
| akk | When the package manager is unable to refresh, is there any way to see which repository is giving the problem? | 07:18 |
| gpd | you are braver than me! | 07:18 |
| gpd | akk i suppose you can disable each in turn | 07:18 |
| akk | gpd: I was hoping there was another way ... that takes forever because it won't let me scroll the list or remember my place in it. | 07:19 |
| gpd | akk: how many repositories do you have loaded? | 07:20 |
| gpd | i have just the main maemo one and the two nokia ones | 07:20 |
| akk | gpd: I've been going through the package catalog adding repositories for things that look interesting | 07:20 |
| akk | gpd: because it says that's the best way to install stuff | 07:21 |
| pahartik | ntrs: as usual, allowed shells are listed on "/etc/shells" | 07:23 |
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| gpd | shoutcast streams appear as IP addresses in the media player - not ideal - am I missing something? | 07:23 |
| ntrs | pahartik, yes but I need root to change that file. | 07:24 |
| akk | gpd: Is there some one or two repositories I can add if I want to get (a) a terminal, (b) a shell and (c) a text editor? Those all seem to come from different places. | 07:25 |
| akk | blah, "unable to install osso-xterm". Let's hear it for clear error messages. | 07:28 |
| pahartik | ntrs: to get superuser privileges, I took "red pill" and installed OpenSSH | 07:28 |
| ntrs | got it | 07:28 |
| Tak | akk: look at the log | 07:29 |
| ntrs | red pill seems to work on the n800 too | 07:29 |
| Tak | (to tell which repo is making it fail) | 07:29 |
| akk | Tak: Where's the log? | 07:29 |
| tigert | since the device doenst officially exist, please give a few days for the app writers to update their software :) | 07:29 |
| Tak | menu->tools->log | 07:30 |
| tigert | maemo.org says "Maemo 3.0 supports application development for the latest Nokia N800 Internet Tablet." | 07:30 |
| Tak | will there ever be an os2007 (or later) release for 770 now? | 07:30 |
| tigert | and I think some apps need a recompile with Bora (3.0) rootstrap to get dependencies right | 07:30 |
| akk | Tak: Oh, thanks! That should help on the repositories though not on xterm (that's just "dpkg returned an error code") | 07:31 |
| tigert | but time to take the dogs out and to get to work | 07:32 |
| gpd | ntrs: i got osso-xterm to install fine from the repository.maemo.org with bora distro and non-free and free | 07:33 |
| akk | and now both versions of osso-xterm have disappeared from the package list | 07:33 |
| gpd | i also took the red-pill | 07:33 |
| ntrs | I already have xterm | 07:33 |
| akk | I have both maemo-hackers.org and repository.maemo.org in the list | 07:33 |
| tigert | akk: n800? | 07:34 |
| tigert | or 770? | 07:34 |
| akk | tigert: 770 | 07:34 |
| tigert | akk: you need to add the garage repo as well I think | 07:35 |
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| tigert | since osso-xterm from maemo-hackers depends on something from there | 07:35 |
| tigert | lemmme check | 07:35 |
| ntrs | was anyone able toinstall openssh on n800? | 07:35 |
| gpd | ntrs: yes - again from the main repos | 07:35 |
| ntrs | what main repos? | 07:36 |
| akk | tigert: Where's that repository? I don't see a repo address on the app catalog page or on garage.maemo.org | 07:36 |
| tigert | akk: looking it for you | 07:36 |
| gpd | http://repository.maemo.org/ | 07:36 |
| tigert | I think that one yeah | 07:37 |
| tigert | * | 07:38 |
| tigert | Web address | 07:38 |
| tigert | 07:38 | |
| tigert | [WWW] http://repository.maemo.org/ | 07:38 |
| tigert | Distribution | 07:38 |
| tigert | 07:38 | |
| tigert | mistral | 07:38 |
| gpd | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/binary/ | 07:38 |
| tigert | Components | 07:38 |
| tigert | 07:38 | |
| tigert | free non-free | 07:38 |
| gpd | you want bora | 07:38 |
| tigert | eek sorry | 07:38 |
| tigert | anyway, try adding that also in addition to the maemo-hackers one | 07:38 |
| ntrs | gpd, bora free? | 07:38 |
| tigert | for 770 you dont want bora | 07:38 |
| tigert | no wait | 07:38 |
| tigert | I am confused | 07:38 |
| gpd | I am N800 | 07:38 |
| akk | tigert: I have that but I didn't have non-free | 07:38 |
| tigert | yes but I am helping akk | 07:39 |
| tigert | akk: yea, try if that helps | 07:39 |
| gpd | i thought akk was N800 too? | 07:39 |
| tigert | 07:34 < akk> tigert: 770 | 07:39 |
| akk | No, I'm 770 | 07:39 |
| gpd | oh - sorry | 07:39 |
| gpd | i'll stfu then :D | 07:39 |
| tigert | also, while stuff might work on N800, it might also break, give folks a chance to rebuild stuff with bora | 07:40 |
| tigert | or do it yourself from source debs | 07:40 |
| akk | tigert: Nope, still no osso-xterm in the package list, just osso-statusbar-cpu | 07:40 |
| tigert | anyway, good luck and see you in a few hours | 07:40 |
| gpd | most of the bora stuff is missing - so i assume that the ones that are there are ok | 07:40 |
| tigert | akk: see if it is "xterm" | 07:40 |
| tigert | akk: I think the name might be different | 07:41 |
| akk | No, just xchat and xev | 07:41 |
| tigert | did you refresh? | 07:41 |
| gpd | akk: look for osso-xterm ? | 07:41 |
| akk | gpd: The only osso* in Main->Install new applications->All is osso-statusbar-cpu | 07:41 |
| tigert | akk: if you see inz, he is the maintainer of that | 07:41 |
| tigert | ask him when he wakes up | 07:42 |
| gpd | i presume this is the main # for tableteers? or are we interrupting important dev talk? | 07:43 |
| tigert | akk: try adding the garage extras/ also | 07:44 |
| tigert | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ | 07:44 |
| tigert | mistral | 07:44 |
| tigert | free non-free | 07:44 |
| framerate | i wish this stuff all worked on the 800 heh | 07:44 |
| framerate | soon soon :) | 07:44 |
| ntrs | gpd, were you referring to ssh 1:3.8p1-3osso7? | 07:44 |
| gpd | that looks like the one i have | 07:45 |
| ntrs | ok | 07:46 |
| akk | tigert: Trying that ... | 07:46 |
| ntrs | hmm, how do you uninstall apps? | 07:46 |
| gpd | ntrs: go to application manager - installed apps -- click -- uninstall | 07:47 |
| pahartik | ntrs: "dpkg --purge", with superuser privileges | 07:47 |
| akk | tigert: That got lots more stuff! But unfortunately no new osso* or xterm* | 07:47 |
| ntrs | thanks | 07:47 |
| tigert | akk: hmm | 07:48 |
| tigert | trying here too | 07:48 |
| tigert | in any case, inz is your best help here | 07:48 |
| tigert | lemme try uninstalling and installing once | 07:48 |
| akk | tigert: Okay, maybe I'll try again in the morning. | 07:48 |
| tigert | yes, its on the list | 07:49 |
| tigert | let me see what repos I have | 07:49 |
| akk | Maybe mine is confused somehow by all the disabled repositories somehow. | 07:49 |
| akk | I wish I could just cat /etc/apt/sources.list or something | 07:50 |
| tigert | I have two tableteer repos , certified and non-certified for mistral, those shouldnt have it | 07:50 |
| tigert | http://repository.maemo.org/ mistral free non-free | 07:51 |
| tigert | http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/ mistral main | 07:51 |
| tigert | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ mistral free non-free | 07:51 |
| tigert | is what I have | 07:52 |
| akk | Now I can't re-check, I foolishly decided to try installing something and it's stuck. | 07:52 |
| akk | stalled with no cancel button | 07:52 |
| tigert | anyway, those I have and I just installed osso-xterm | 07:52 |
| tigert | akk: yea, it will timeout if stuff hangs | 07:52 |
| tigert | akk: you cannot cancel apt sometimes either | 07:52 |
| tigert | and you dont want to cancel it midway anyway | 07:52 |
| akk | tigert: ctrl-C usually works if it's still downloading. | 07:53 |
| tigert | yeah | 07:53 |
| tigert | anyways, good luck, ttyl | 07:53 |
| akk | there, it un-stalled, whew | 07:53 |
| akk | thanks, tigert | 07:53 |
| tigert | np | 07:53 |
| ntrs | what is the user password? | 07:53 |
| gpd | i set my user password from root | 07:54 |
| ntrs | ok | 07:54 |
| gpd | it would have been nice to be able to set the account name to gpd - but 'user' will do | 07:54 |
| akk | My repository list is the same as tigert's except I have one more, the one that FBreader came from, http://only.mawhrin.net/fbreader/maemo/ | 07:55 |
| gpd | on the front page -- home -- why does it say 'no contacts' - i have contacts? | 07:55 |
| akk | Oh, well, I'll try again tomorrow. | 07:55 |
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| framerate | night guys | 07:56 |
| framerate | see you tomorrow I'm sure | 07:57 |
| framerate | nice to meet you all | 07:57 |
| gpd | cheers framerate | 07:57 |
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| gpd | in answer to my previous question about contacts on the home page -- go to home menu - applet settings -- set speed contacts | 08:09 |
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| c0ffee | moin | 08:14 |
| gpd | c0ffee: that was your night's sleep? | 08:15 |
| c0ffee | more or less :/ | 08:15 |
| c0ffee | nothing happened | 08:16 |
| c0ffee | not even new mail | 08:16 |
| Rotund | okay. is there going to be a maemo 3.0 for the 770? Or is it going to remain N800 only? | 08:16 |
| c0ffee | that's a faq iirc | 08:17 |
| gpd | man i'm loving this thing | 08:19 |
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| Rotund | so, is there an known answer? | 08:19 |
| Tak | I'd like to know as well | 08:20 |
| gpd | is there a bot on this channel for faqs? | 08:20 |
| Tak | particularly because my chances of getting an N800 in the near future are looking slim, unless via DDP | 08:20 |
| gpd | just as I said that -- crash number 2 :( | 08:20 |
| Rotund | because if not, I'm fairly pissed | 08:21 |
| c0ffee | http://maemo.org/faq/faq.html#faq-N10179 | 08:21 |
| c0ffee | with faq i meant the 'faq' | 08:21 |
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| c0ffee | in earleri questions OS 2007 is related to maemo 3.0 whereas os 2006 is related to maemo 2.x | 08:22 |
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| Rotund | so, basically every 2 years I'll need to spend $400 for a new piece of hardware? WOW! | 08:23 |
| c0ffee | earlier | 08:23 |
| c0ffee | welcome to the real world | 08:23 |
| c0ffee | sorry :) | 08:24 |
| c0ffee | just got up | 08:24 |
| Rotund | I'm particularly pissed cuz I JUST got mine in early December. | 08:24 |
| c0ffee | try to return it then | 08:25 |
| Rotund | Well, I suppose it's time to start making "unofficial" versions for the 770. | 08:25 |
| Rotund | c0ffee, I got it on eBay. | 08:25 |
| c0ffee | that's what opensource is about | 08:25 |
| c0ffee | i guess there will be a backport-like kind of thing | 08:26 |
| Rotund | I understand that, but at the same time... open-source has typically supported older hardware longer than that. | 08:26 |
| c0ffee | oh | 08:26 |
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| thoughtfix | Live from Vegas! | 08:26 |
| Rotund | Hell, has a version of Mono for OS2006 been released officially yet? | 08:27 |
| c0ffee | it's just that the binaries won't be supported | 08:27 |
| gpd | is there an rss feed of new packages for the main repositories? | 08:27 |
| c0ffee | test.maemo.org has an rss feed | 08:28 |
| Rotund | nope. Looks like it's still just OS2005. | 08:28 |
| gpd | c0ffee: http://test.maemo.org/news/rss.xml <-- not quite what i am after - but nice addition | 08:33 |
| roope | http://www.taloussanomat.fi/page.php?page_id=95&news_id=2007442&rss=4 sorry, it's in finnishi. | 08:36 |
| tigert | hi thoughtfix | 08:37 |
| tigert | live from rainy traffic jam | 08:37 |
| gpd | nokia something something skype something las vegas | 08:37 |
| gpd | something something skype N800 :D | 08:38 |
| gpd | gizmoproject obviously scaring them | 08:38 |
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| Rotund | I like gizmoproject | 08:42 |
| gpd | me too -- and the skype linux client blows goats | 08:43 |
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| Rotund | Anyone get mp3tunes to work on their 770? it just crashes on mine | 08:44 |
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| thoughtfix | Sorry | 08:50 |
| thoughtfix | got distracted | 08:50 |
| thoughtfix | hi again | 08:50 |
| c0ffee | thoughtfix, try to press information about the developer program from somebody! | 08:51 |
| thoughtfix | c0ffee: I have the Nokia reception tomorrow and an interview (possibly with Dr. Jaaksi) Tues morning | 08:51 |
| c0ffee | still not monday over there? | 08:52 |
| Rotund | I hope they offer an upgrade program to current owners of the 770 personally. | 08:53 |
| thoughtfix | 10:52 PM | 08:53 |
| thoughtfix | On US Pacific trime | 08:53 |
| thoughtfix | time | 08:53 |
| thoughtfix | Rotund: Everyone does. It's called eBay ;) | 08:53 |
| Rotund | you notice the prices dropped by over $100 in the last couple days? | 08:54 |
| jtokash | hmmm... mine is called "product replacement plan from compusa after 770s are no longer available" | 08:54 |
| thoughtfix | hahaha | 08:54 |
| thoughtfix | good investment | 08:54 |
| thoughtfix | Mine ran out weeks ago :( | 08:54 |
| jtokash | I knew about the new version (from you) at time of 770 purchase | 08:54 |
| jtokash | so I had an incentive to get it. | 08:54 |
| Rotund | I just want the new contacts program from the N800 | 08:56 |
| Rotund | I want to be able to enter phone numbers! | 08:56 |
| gpd | contacts program on n800 seems nice - it imported my vcards very well | 08:56 |
| Rotund | How much code is missing from the 3.0 SDK? | 08:56 |
| gpd | although it seems to ignore physical addresses - eg. home and work mailing | 08:56 |
| Rotund | or some version of herring? | 08:57 |
| thoughtfix | jtokash: I am not going to encourage you to rm -rf / as root | 08:57 |
| jtokash | hehe | 08:58 |
| thoughtfix | But "no physical damage" + "stopped working" .... | 08:58 |
| jtokash | yeah, I hear ya!! | 08:58 |
| inz | Anyone tried bora rootstraps yet? | 08:58 |
| thoughtfix | My grandfather looked at me with a Bluetooth EV-DO connection, bluetooth keyboard anbd mouse, and ultra-mobile pc | 08:59 |
| thoughtfix | He is cancelling his WebTV since only Grandma used it and he never figured it out | 08:59 |
| jtokash | webtv, that takes me back! | 09:00 |
| jtokash | At work, we got one when they first came out for browser compat testing | 09:01 |
| thoughtfix | Okay if I want to be sane tomorrow | 09:03 |
| thoughtfix | I must sleep NOW | 09:03 |
| * thoughtfix waves | 09:03 | |
| c0ffee | n8 | 09:03 |
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| gpd | wow - the capitalization in handwriting recognition is really annoying | 09:11 |
| gpd | especially when coming from palm graphiti | 09:11 |
| gpd | how would i download podcast mp3s for offline use - i have feeds in the rss reader and can stream fine | 09:18 |
| c0ffee | graphiti isn't handwriting recognition | 09:21 |
| c0ffee | it's more the other way round | 09:21 |
| c0ffee | adopting the handwriting to the machine | 09:22 |
| gpd | i don't suppose there is a way to use graffiti instead though | 09:22 |
| gpd | or is it patented or something? | 09:22 |
| c0ffee | i'd bet | 09:23 |
| gpd | in answer to my other question - the rss reader has a 'keep for later' button for podcasts :) | 09:23 |
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| roope | graffiti is from Palm. | 09:24 |
| roope | or is it Access now, | 09:24 |
| gpd | still palm.com -- not sure what access is | 09:25 |
| suihkulokki | it doesn't change the fact that current handwriting recognition sucks | 09:25 |
| gpd | i think it is trying to be too clever doing the upper and lower case | 09:26 |
| gpd | a simple shift like graffiti is simple enough. | 09:26 |
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| keesj | hi | 09:26 |
| gpd | hmm... not so sure about this 'keep for later' button - might just be the text :( | 09:29 |
| keesj | Congrats with Bora and N800. I am very very happy to see continuation in the Maemo series | 09:29 |
| dottedmag|de | yeah. good. and whose who hapy whith 770 are out of luck. | 09:30 |
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| keesj | dottedmag|de, why? | 09:30 |
| desrt | keesj; no more support, supposedly. | 09:30 |
| dottedmag|de | keesj: just because bora is not compatible with 770 | 09:30 |
| dottedmag|de | And community can't support 770 because of closed components. | 09:31 |
| c0ffee | there isn't too much closed | 09:31 |
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| keesj | It is not because there is a new car is the shop that my cars starts to stink | 09:31 |
| dottedmag|de | enough to prevent porting bora to 770 | 09:31 |
| keesj | I agree that that community driven 770 is difficult | 09:32 |
| dottedmag|de | Damn. I still have PC from 1998 which runs debian etch fine. | 09:32 |
| desrt | qgil; you've a revolt on your hands :) | 09:32 |
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| keesj | c0ffee, there isn't too much closed, what you say? | 09:32 |
| qgil | desrt: which one? | 09:32 |
| desrt | qgil; the geeks have the bora bora blackbox blues | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | the wlan driver | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | how to operate the DSPs | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | the bt driver | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | what else? | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | userspace stuff is replacable | 09:33 |
| c0ffee | i don't need opera to be happy | 09:33 |
| qgil | ah, that one | 09:33 |
| dottedmag|de | hmm.. userspace stuff needs to be reverse engineered to be replaced, as there is no docs :-/ | 09:34 |
| keesj | I wonder why I haven't seen ports of gentoo freebsd to the 770 | 09:34 |
| keesj | gentoo or freebsd | 09:34 |
| c0ffee | dottedmag|de, there are enough free replacements | 09:34 |
| desrt | freebsd doesn't run on arm, afaik | 09:34 |
| desrt | and nobody wants to use the 770 to self-compile their OS | 09:35 |
| desrt | so that's why :) | 09:35 |
| keesj | so people are not happy with the "distro" but are to lazy | 09:36 |
| dottedmag|de | okay, with this policy I've just lost one possible maemo developer. | 09:37 |
| qgil | please make sure the interesting stuff you discuss ends up documented somewhere out of this chat room - nobody will regret this extra effort | 09:37 |
| keesj | and I care more about the maemo "movement" then the devices. I can only hope nokia will provide a build environment for the different releases | 09:37 |
| desrt | keesj; keeping development version of the libraries with full symbol information and header files around in addition to a full toolchain just wouldn't fly on the 770 | 09:37 |
| c0ffee | that's why there is scratchbox | 09:39 |
| desrt | quite. | 09:39 |
| keesj | desrt, me as simple software developer can not maintain the SDK's for the different releases . I don't understand that that has to do with the kernel | 09:39 |
| desrt | you really do want compilation on a separate machine from where you're running it. it's not just laziness... it's a real problem | 09:39 |
| desrt | keesj; i get the feeling that we're having two separate conversations | 09:40 |
| dottedmag|de | desrt: +1 | 09:40 |
| desrt | dottedmag|de; thanks, i think :p | 09:40 |
| keesj | if it must be fun / easy to create programs for the 770 and 800 there must be binary compatibility or a build system that works around the problem (IMHO). | 09:41 |
| keesj | desrt, yes perhaps | 09:41 |
| c0ffee | http://maemo.org//downloads/maemo_3_compatibility.html | 09:42 |
| c0ffee | keesj, see scratchbox | 09:42 |
| keesj | I have been running scratchbox for a while now. I guess you don't understand my problem | 09:43 |
| dottedmag|de | keesj: you're connecting device with OS. I just argued whether this should be. No one switches to the different device just to run xp instead of 2000. Unless old device is too slow, which is not the case here. | 09:43 |
| keesj | no, the disc started about bora and porting to the 770 | 09:44 |
| dottedmag|de | Ah, I should be more clear. | 09:44 |
| keesj | I do not want to make to much noise. forget about it | 09:45 |
| dottedmag|de | So, are 770 owners are stuck with OS2006 forever? | 09:45 |
| c0ffee | probably | 09:46 |
| dottedmag|de | fine. goodbye, will never return. | 09:46 |
| *** dottedmag|de has left #maemo | 09:46 | |
| * c0ffee waves good-bye to dottedmag | 09:46 | |
| * qgil wants to land in Ruoholahti asap to start working really on all this | 09:47 | |
| c0ffee | are you on a plane? | 09:48 |
| qgil | it will take exactly one week :) | 09:48 |
| inz | That's one slow plane | 09:49 |
| c0ffee | :) | 09:49 |
| * c0ffee shower | 09:49 | |
| keesj | I also wonder how many users upgraded fro 2005 to 2006 | 09:50 |
| * qgil breakfast | 09:50 | |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:51 |
| konttori | morning jaffa! | 09:56 |
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| alump | why bora installer won't download sbox anymore :( | 09:56 |
| inz | It seems to be broken in many other ways too | 09:57 |
| inz | The roostrap (at least had yesterday) has broken dependencies | 09:57 |
| inz | And they cannot be satisfied using the bora repo | 09:57 |
| inz | I had to add scirocco to get them fulfilled (i.e. to be able to run apt-get -f install) | 09:57 |
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| keesj | and the fpu will make xmoto run faster | 09:59 |
| inz | yay | 10:00 |
| inz | xterm didn't start running even when I compiled it with the bora rootstrap... | 10:00 |
| inz | I wonder... | 10:00 |
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| daniels | ~/sb e | 10:02 |
| c0ffee | what about the included osso-xterm? | 10:03 |
| inz | c0ffee, the included osso-xterm? | 10:04 |
| c0ffee | i thought there was one in bora already | 10:04 |
| c0ffee | somebody talked about that | 10:04 |
| c0ffee | do you have red-pill enabled to see all packages? | 10:04 |
| c0ffee | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-01-08.log.html#t2007-01-08T02:16:25 | 10:05 |
| inz | c0ffee, yeah, that'll probably work, but it uses an ugly font ;) | 10:06 |
| c0ffee | now that sucks | 10:06 |
| tigert | and it has BAD issues with thumb kbd | 10:07 |
| tigert | since browser hijacks the edit buffer somehow, and only inz's term deals with it | 10:08 |
| tigert | so every time you open the thumb kbd, it is prefilled with the last url you edited | 10:08 |
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| c0ffee | well then | 10:11 |
| c0ffee | time to appear at work | 10:11 |
| * c0ffee & | 10:11 | |
| jtokash | Any other questions for Nokia? http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/08/questions-about-the-nokia-n800-internet-tablet/ | 10:11 |
| jtokash | A nokia rep answered some questions in an earlier post, so I'm hoping it happens again. | 10:12 |
| alump | this sdk installation won't work like in the movies, in which sbox package the sb-conf should have come | 10:13 |
| tigert | please, if there are issues with sdk etc, make sure you voice the on the devel list also so they wont fall through | 10:15 |
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| jtokash | fyi, I just passed a magnet over every nook and cranny on the n800 | 10:21 |
| jtokash | it doesn't seem to have a magnetic standby switch like the 770 does | 10:22 |
| inz | Hmm, my osso-xterm seems to start up with the vte from repo.m.o bora | 10:22 |
| keesj | jtokash, how does it fit in the pocket? | 10:23 |
| jtokash | the felt thing? | 10:23 |
| jtokash | not bad | 10:23 |
| jtokash | It's not snug | 10:23 |
| jtokash | but it's not too flappy | 10:23 |
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| alump | does anyone like the hw buttons of n800? i think 770's buttons where 100x better. Or do I just have too big fingers. | 10:24 |
| jtokash | I hate that the fullscreen button is between the zoom keys | 10:24 |
| jtokash | other than that I don't have any complaints | 10:24 |
| roope | Yeah, they suck. :) | 10:25 |
| tigert | they suck royally | 10:25 |
| alump | how desinged them, and why god why? ;) | 10:26 |
| tigert | i always need to look to press the correct one | 10:26 |
| tigert | a perfect industrial designer without fault i guess | 10:27 |
| roope | industrial design is a compromise between ergonomics and design. | 10:27 |
| tigert | hah, i outtype you with the thumb keyboard ;) | 10:27 |
| alump | those buttons don't even look good | 10:30 |
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| roope | if you look at the n73, it's kind of similar style. | 10:37 |
| c0ffee | toni! | 10:37 |
| VRe | Sometimes I feel that the industrial desing wins - sometimes I really wonder if the device designed goes thru any review | 10:37 |
| c0ffee | thank bob you're still alive :) | 10:37 |
| Toni | c0ffee: ehlo | 10:38 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Toni | 10:38 | |
| c0ffee | 501 5.0.0 ehlo requires domain address | 10:38 |
| *** Toni changes topic to "http://www.nokiausa.com/N800" | 10:38 | |
| *** Toni sets mode: -o Toni | 10:39 | |
| c0ffee | i made the channel -t yesterday btw :) | 10:39 |
| Toni | oh, didn't notice :D | 10:40 |
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| Guardian | will bora be backported to 770? | 10:48 |
| Guardian | (oh and morning all) | 10:48 |
| konttori | Any chance that N801 could have one extra button at the 'top' buttons row to the far right. So that there could be sort of shoulder buttons for games / any other rocker operation. | 10:49 |
| tigert | N801? :) | 10:49 |
| konttori | Like any future product | 10:50 |
| disq | n820 :P | 10:50 |
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| tigert | NMaster 800000 | 10:50 |
| desrt | wow. it's actually announced | 10:50 |
| desrt | fear :) | 10:50 |
| konttori | Nmaster overlord 800000 | 10:50 |
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| desrt | $400 namerican. steep. | 10:50 |
| timeless | unfortunately nokia hardware doesn't take input/feedback from anyone useful | 10:51 |
| timeless | surprisingly some people seem to like some of the hardware changes for the n800 | 10:51 |
| konttori | Is the new pen better? It looks like it could be better as its fatter. | 10:52 |
| tigert | timeless: dude | 10:52 |
| timeless | depends on who you are | 10:52 |
| timeless | the best selling point about the new pen is that it's discoverable | 10:52 |
| timeless | no more watching people rotate the 770 around searching for the pen they know must exist | 10:53 |
| timeless | and giving up | 10:53 |
| Jaffa | The official press release from Nokia is out too: http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1096861 | 10:53 |
| tigert | the N800 is nicer as it is a lot snappier and faster, plus the screen is brighter I think | 10:53 |
| Guardian | too bad it was not out for christmas :( | 10:55 |
| konttori | Wow. skype support. The coolest eva! | 10:55 |
| timeless | oh wow, the n800 is a next generation wide screen? | 10:55 |
| * timeless didn't know that | 10:55 | |
| timeless | that's just an announcement | 10:55 |
| konttori | is the screen 24 bit? | 10:55 |
| tigert | hey, its press release | 10:55 |
| timeless | consider it vaporware until it ships :) | 10:55 |
| Jaffa | I like the way it "introduces" a full screen finger QWERTY keyboard. | 10:55 |
| tigert | Jaffa: :) | 10:56 |
| timeless | jaffa: it does to the nseries | 10:56 |
| timeless | the 770 wasn't nseries | 10:56 |
| * bergie wonders whether Skype will be integrated with the Google Talk UI in Maemo or a separate app | 10:56 | |
| timeless | bergie: you're not alone :) | 10:56 |
| Jaffa | timeless: It doesn't imply, from my reading, that it's talking about introducing to the N series, it's talking about compared with its predecessor (e.g. webcam etc.) | 10:56 |
| * timeless sighs | 10:56 | |
| timeless | who are these people and why don't they hire Americans to write their press releases? | 10:57 |
| tigert | Jaffa: and it is marketing press release, don't expect logic, facts or sense | 10:57 |
| Jaffa | But anyway, marketing depts aren't renowned for their... snap. | 10:57 |
| * timeless is sick of Nokia paying a non native speaker to write an English press release | 10:57 | |
| timeless | nokia should just only release things to the press in English :) | 10:57 |
| tigert | british is the true english anyway | 10:57 |
| timeless | erm | 10:57 |
| timeless | s/English/Finnish/ | 10:57 |
| timeless | tigert: this wasn't written in Queeen's English | 10:58 |
| sp3000 | the 770 wasn't released with a fkb, so it's consistent with that :) | 10:58 |
| timeless | s/ee/e/ | 10:58 |
| timeless | With stereo audio, media support and new ergonomic design the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet is a portable Internet entertainment device; you will enjoy streamed or downloaded content free away from fixed location. | 10:58 |
| timeless | it's missing articles: " [a] new ergonomic design" | 10:58 |
| timeless | the sentence(*COUGH*) runs longer than normal marketing jargon | 10:59 |
| timeless | and "free away from fixed location" is at least missing an article | 10:59 |
| timeless | or something | 10:59 |
| timeless | [any] fixed location? | 10:59 |
| Jaffa | Sense | 10:59 |
| * timeless sighs | 10:59 | |
| Jaffa | That's missing from that phrase ;-) | 10:59 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Did someone fix the test.maemo IE rendering problems yet? Or should I have a look at it? | 10:59 |
| timeless | oh no | 11:00 |
| timeless | you're right, it says: Building on the the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, the Nokia N800 introduces full screen finger qwerty keyboard | 11:01 |
| * konttori wonders if anyone could care to state whether N800 runs 24 bit or 16 bit color | 11:01 | |
| bergie | X-Fade: I think Joonas did some IE work on friday, but I can check when he comes online | 11:02 |
| jonek | good morning! | 11:02 |
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| X-Fade | bergie: Ok, because atm it still looks weird ;) | 11:02 |
| bergie | ok | 11:02 |
| X-Fade | But I'm not sure if ferenc updated to the latest version. | 11:02 |
| konttori | 16 bit / 24 bit display? | 11:05 |
| alump | btw, does this n800's videotalk between two passive net connections? | 11:05 |
| alump | +work | 11:06 |
| sxpert-work | alump: I think the default handler is google talk | 11:06 |
| Jaffa | alump: "passive"? | 11:06 |
| alump | passive as in p2p-world, both behind nat (or no open ports)... | 11:06 |
| konttori | At least if they get skype running on it, then it'll work | 11:07 |
| alump | so does video move via server or p2p-network (ala skype) | 11:07 |
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| *** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | http://www.nokiausa.com/N800" | 11:19 | |
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| X-Fade | bergie: still there? | 11:26 |
| bergie | yep | 11:26 |
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| X-Fade | bergie: there is a problem with the application search block html. The <select> tag has a / at the end. Which must not be there. | 11:27 |
| X-Fade | As is has a few options too ;) | 11:27 |
| tigert | qgil: you forgot | And My Topic Is Longer Than Yours! | 11:28 |
| bergie | X-Fade: aha... Ferenc made the form, I'll bug him when he's online | 11:28 |
| bergie | might not be too soon, though, as he was still online around 3am | 11:28 |
| X-Fade | bergie: I'll try to find it in svn :) | 11:28 |
| qgil | tigert: the topic is as stuffed as the mood of the channel, I guess | 11:29 |
| qgil | will be shorter when the waters etc | 11:29 |
| keesj | what is that skype buzz? can we search the irclog? | 11:29 |
| qgil | keesj: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search "but don't tell anyone" ;) | 11:30 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Found it in svn. Will commit a fix ;) | 11:30 |
| bergie | X-Fade: thx | 11:31 |
| bergie | of course Ferenc must then update the style | 11:31 |
| X-Fade | No, the application catalog php code.. | 11:31 |
| inz | keesj, there's mentions of skype in the official press release | 11:32 |
| X-Fade | bergie: committed r160 to fix this.. | 11:34 |
| dwd | inz: There is? Oh, dear. | 11:35 |
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| bergie | X-Fade: the app catalog PHP code in SVN gets imported into Midgard style DB, and then replicated to the external server | 11:38 |
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| bergie | it is just a PHP file for ease of version control (outside Midgard's own rcs storage) | 11:39 |
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| X-Fade | bergie: Ok, well I guess that it needs to be imported then :) | 11:39 |
| bergie | yep... needs to be done by somebody with access to the internal server | 11:40 |
| dwd | Does anyone happen to know if, from the 770, it's possible to find out whether the GPRS connection has signal? | 11:41 |
| jonek | can't await maemo 2.2 *tip tip tip* | 11:41 |
| * vidar is unimpressed with http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/ | 11:47 | |
| timeless | you're not impressed rthat nokia managed a site that didn't use flash? | 11:48 |
| * timeless is | 11:48 | |
| sxpert-work | vidar: yeah, I would have expected an integrated GPS | 11:48 |
| sxpert-work | timeless: apparently, it wants flash 8 | 11:49 |
| * timeless rotfdl | 11:49 | |
| vidar | sxpert-work: my impresslessness (!) comes from not being able to view it without a newer flash plugin. | 11:49 |
| timeless | you're kidding, right? | 11:49 |
| * dwd doesn't have Flash. | 11:49 | |
| sxpert-work | which ain't going to happen, considering this is a 64 bit box | 11:49 |
| timeless | oh god | 11:49 |
| dwd | Same for me. | 11:49 |
| alump | ok, this 3.0 sdk just doesn't like me | 11:49 |
| timeless | sorry, i use noscript | 11:49 |
| timeless | so i saw a very pretty page that didn't use flash | 11:49 |
| sxpert-work | timeless: ah. right | 11:49 |
| vidar | ah | 11:49 |
| timeless | given that the n800 doesn't ship w/ flash8 (it has 7) | 11:49 |
| sxpert-work | disabling js gave the page. | 11:50 |
| qgil | dwd you don't need just Flash but also a quite recent Flash player | 11:50 |
| sxpert-work | said script is b0rk | 11:50 |
| vidar | if flash is enabled you only get a message about getting a newer version | 11:50 |
| vidar | unavailable for linux, of course | 11:50 |
| dwd | qgil: Jolly good. I'll skip it then. | 11:50 |
| * timeless forbids nseries.com and returns to a happy page | 11:50 | |
| timeless | ok, you're right, they're clever | 11:50 |
| timeless | but might i suggest you install noscript and join the happy masses? | 11:50 |
| vidar | you might. ;) | 11:51 |
| timeless | http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/technology/07tips.html?_r=1&oref=slogin | 11:51 |
| timeless | even the new york times suggests you get noscript | 11:51 |
| jonek | is the entry 4.12 new to the maemo FAQ? http://www.maemo.org////faq/faq.html | 11:54 |
| qgil | At some extent it makes sense to browse the product web pages of your device, with your device | 11:54 |
| jonek | btw. way too many slases in that URL | 11:54 |
| timeless | no idea if it's new, but the fact is that it isn't there | 11:55 |
| timeless | someone is welcome to try to port java, since it's open sourced | 11:55 |
| timeless | i wouldn't suggest trying w/ the 770, given the ram constraints | 11:55 |
| timeless | that said, i own a 770, so feel free to make something, i'll test it :) | 11:55 |
| jonek | timeless: but maybe it indicates some activities behind the scene? "... at this time." | 11:56 |
| dwd | jonek: That could mean "Until some open source people make the effort for us" | 11:56 |
| timeless | it doesn't | 11:56 |
| Jaffa | Std. cover-your-arses answer | 11:56 |
| timeless | i mean, i suppose i could be working on it right now, since i have the sources | 11:57 |
| timeless | but i'm not :) | 11:57 |
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| jonek | I'm currently trying to compile PhoneME for the 770 and would be a bit pissed if Nokia internals would do that too because it requires quite some time. | 11:57 |
| * Jaffa 's planning on picking up Aleksandyr's JamVM/Classpath/Jikes work, or help jonek with phoneME (at some point) | 11:57 | |
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| Zmanu | hello | 11:58 |
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| * timeless frowns | 11:59 | |
| timeless | i'm not sure how i could put this | 11:59 |
| jonek | what I'm trying to say is: double effort due to lack of communication would really suck | 11:59 |
| timeless | yeah, i understand | 12:00 |
| timeless | the problem is ndas and such | 12:00 |
| timeless | companies do want secrets | 12:00 |
| jonek | ndas for compiling GPL soft? - LOL | 12:01 |
| jonek | but I could understand if Nokia would try to reenable Jazelle support in PhoneME wich was removed by sun when they GPLed it. | 12:01 |
| dwd | jonek: No, NDAs covering whether or not it's being worked on. Hell, I have an open source project I've been working on for years, and I have a slew of NDAs I've signed as a direct result. | 12:02 |
| timeless | even ports of open source software can be secret | 12:02 |
| timeless | since they indicate business direction | 12:02 |
| timeless | which is very secret | 12:02 |
| dwd | timeless: Yeah - this is what my NDAs cover, basically. | 12:03 |
| timeless | e.g. imagine there's a company that makes boats | 12:03 |
| qgil | I believe we will find some common sense between all the acronyms | 12:03 |
| sp3000 | naah, implausible | 12:03 |
| timeless | and there's this cool copmany that makes gps navigation systems | 12:03 |
| sp3000 | a company that makes boats? | 12:03 |
| * sp3000 ducks | 12:03 | |
| timeless | now, the company makes a gps navigation system, and sometimes makes a customization for a specific oat | 12:04 |
| dwd | sp3000: "Ducks" - "boats" - very good. | 12:04 |
| timeless | at its own expense | 12:04 |
| timeless | yes, but have you ever ridden in a Duck? | 12:04 |
| timeless | now, suppose that the boat comapny could consider making its own gps navigation inte4gration | 12:04 |
| dwd | timeless: Not that I can recall, but it's spelt with a W, anyway. | 12:04 |
| timeless | if it anounces that it's going to integrate gps | 12:05 |
| timeless | then the gps navigation company might choose not to do their own integration | 12:05 |
| timeless | and the boat vendor is tuck spending money | 12:05 |
| timeless | if the gps navigation company announces it's going to do such an integration | 12:06 |
| timeless | then the boat vendor can save money and just let the gps people do it | 12:06 |
| timeless | it's a game of high stakes poker | 12:06 |
| timeless | Unfortunately | 12:06 |
| timeless | http://www.wisconsinducktours.com/questions.html | 12:06 |
| timeless | yeah, dechnically it's spelled w/ a w, but most people don't bother | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Any garage.maemo.org admins alive? | 12:07 |
| timeless | s/d/t/ | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | *awake ;) | 12:07 |
| mgedmin | I misread one of the questions as "can we take our pet duck with us" :) | 12:10 |
| qgil | on the other hand Nokia is investing in an OSSO team and a maemo project that will have a better future exciting and involving external developers rather than upsetting a loosing them | 12:12 |
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| Jaffa | lo koen | 12:15 |
| daniels | the link on nokia.com seems to be rather hidden, so: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 | 12:18 |
| mgedmin | but that one links (through instructions for manual update) to http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800, which is a 404 page | 12:20 |
| timeless | so um | 12:20 |
| timeless | could someone please explain the finnish tax car system to me? :) | 12:21 |
| timeless | sp3000? :) | 12:21 |
| koen | hey jaffa | 12:22 |
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| daniels | bugger the tax cards, i need to get a new residence permit this week, or staying in the country might get interesting | 12:22 |
| sxpert-work | timeless: you pay, pay some more, and they pay even more :D | 12:23 |
| timeless | sxpert-work: how about: "i've got a tax card, what do i do? i can't read it" | 12:23 |
| koen | Jaffa: did you start crossing your fingers yet? | 12:23 |
| sxpert-work | timeless: then learn suomi :D | 12:23 |
| timeless | oh sure, i'll do that between now and feb 1 | 12:24 |
| timeless | or however it's spelled in suomi | 12:24 |
| X-Fade | koen: It seems that N800 at least has a newer OMAP :) | 12:24 |
| murrayc | daniels: What's your nationality? | 12:26 |
| daniels | hm, two months processing time, it expires in three weeks, and i go to australia on friday. shit. | 12:26 |
| daniels | murrayc: australian | 12:26 |
| AD-N770 | X-Fade ARMv6 | 12:26 |
| murrayc | daniels: Ah. Get it done. You should be able to speed it along. | 12:26 |
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| Jaffa | koen: I've had my fingers crossed for the last 10 hours :-) | 12:27 |
| AD-N770 | has some simd instructions | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | OMAP2420, right? | 12:27 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: yup | 12:27 |
| daniels | murrayc: the only tricky part is the going to australia bit; either i file it now and it's waiting for me in finland when i return -- but i return after it's expired -- or i file it in australia, but a week from now | 12:27 |
| Jaffa | koen: I wish I knew how long to unrealistically get my expectations up for... | 12:28 |
| murrayc | daniels: Dunno about Finland, but in Germany you get residence permits in person, so there's a chance to plead. | 12:28 |
| murrayc | daniels: And in the UK, you can generally speed things up by paying more. | 12:28 |
| AD-N770 | X-Fade: I can't remember the exact model now | 12:28 |
| koen | Jaffa: indeed | 12:28 |
| daniels | murrayc: ah, nice. wonder if i can get a four-day turnaround. finland don't list anything for expediting. | 12:29 |
| daniels | murrayc: i'll find out though. thinking australia might be best; the finnish embassy in australia don't generally seem to be overly busy | 12:29 |
| murrayc | Of course, it's best not to ask so it sounds like "may I bribe you" | 12:29 |
| Toni | daniels: with Australian passport you can get back to .fi without visa, so you can apply new visa when you return | 12:29 |
| daniels | Toni: yeeeessss, but that could be interesting | 12:29 |
| Toni | but don't take this as legal advice :) | 12:29 |
| daniels | Toni: 'what are you here for?' 'er, visiting' | 12:29 |
| daniels | Toni: though a holiday could be good ;) | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | 2420 has a 2D/3D accelerator ;) | 12:30 |
| Toni | daniels: here you can apply for visa while in country, even if you entered without one (as long as you didn't enter illegally) | 12:30 |
| daniels | Toni: also, don't know how it is in finland, but countries such as the uk don't allow you to apply for a visa when you're already in the country on a visa waiver | 12:30 |
| daniels | oh, nice | 12:30 |
| Toni | but again, check with embassy to be sure =) | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | koen: you got your fingers crossed too, or are you buying one no matter what? | 12:30 |
| Toni | daniels: btw, you should have applied the extension about 4 months before it expires, but I guess you figured it out already ;) | 12:31 |
| daniels | Toni: yeah. whoops. | 12:32 |
| dwd | Not that I think I stand any chance at all of getting a developer discount, but do we know when those get announced? | 12:32 |
| qgil | daniels: do you have a contract in Finland? | 12:33 |
| koen | Jaffa: fingers crossed :) | 12:34 |
| daniels | qgil: yeah, i'm employed here | 12:34 |
| koen | Jaffa: If I'd buy a new toy now it would be this: http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=32&sort=7&cat=2 | 12:35 |
| Toni | daniels: if you didn't yet apply for extension, go to Malmi police station today to get apply for it.. you might get it only when you get back, but atleast you don't need to apply for a new one but only the extension | 12:35 |
| qgil | daniels: then you do not need to worry :) -- remember that the EU is strict about foreigners living here mainly for economic reasons - unless you are a convict etc | 12:35 |
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| Toni | prepare for fancy 4-5 hour queue time at the station ;) | 12:36 |
| daniels | qgil: well, i _do_ come from australia ... | 12:37 |
| Toni | australia is hardly considered as developing country, I guess :] | 12:38 |
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| qgil | daniels: yes, but you can enter the country and even if your situation is irregular, if you are working with a contract and you are not someone pursued in australia there is no good reason for the Finnish authorities to kick you off the other side of the planet | 12:38 |
| daniels | Toni: uhm, does it have to be in malmi? i live and work in ruoholahti | 12:38 |
| qgil | there might be some paper trouble but that's all it is, paper trouble that is solved with more papers (perhaps including notes) | 12:39 |
| daniels | qgil: ah, good point | 12:39 |
| Toni | daniels: only the foreign police in Malmi handles the visa cases | 12:39 |
| daniels | Toni: ugh | 12:39 |
| Toni | daniels: so go there tomorrow morning about 20 minutes before it opens, and take food with you.. it really can take over 3 hours in the queue | 12:39 |
| Toni | unless you happen to be early enough :) | 12:40 |
| daniels | 'An application for an extended fixed-term residence permit is filed with the local police.' | 12:40 |
| Toni | remember to take a new passport photo with you, new visas have photos | 12:40 |
| Toni | hmm, strange.. but good for you if they have changed it | 12:41 |
| Jaffa | koen: oooh, nice lens | 12:42 |
| koen | Jaffa: yes, and about the same price as a n800 :) | 12:42 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, Karoliina's blog talks about signing up for the dev programme, I assume it's just miscommunication to her (rather than us ;-)) | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Check Ari's blog ;) | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: indeed, I'm comment #1 on that entry ;-) | 12:46 |
| Jaffa | I'd temporarily forgotten how explicit he'd been about it, though. | 12:46 |
| * Jaffa should get on with some work. | 12:46 | |
| daniels | Toni: thanks for the info | 12:47 |
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| Jaffa | koen: btw, what's http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/geek-news about? | 12:49 |
| koen | Jaffa: the FIC phone: http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html | 12:49 |
| Jaffa | Ah, I was trying to place the "FIC" acronym :) | 12:49 |
| * qgil has been told by the landlord that there is no cable available in da house - damn! | 12:52 | |
| inz | no-hooo | 12:52 |
| Jaffa | qgil: What's .fi like for DSL? | 12:52 |
| qgil | Jaffa: and you ask me? | 12:52 |
| qgil | I'll need to figure out - any provider recommended? | 12:53 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Well, more of a suggestion of an alternative route so not to despair (yet) | 12:53 |
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| daniels | i'm using elisa for broadband (www.elisa-laajakaista.fi if i've spelt it right), and they're quite good. 24mbit adsl2+, €65/mo. | 12:54 |
| daniels | just go to verkkokauppa and replace their dsl modem immediately, it's god-awful. constant packet loss and dropouts, and only negotiated 13mbit instead of 20mbit with a d-link modem i have here. | 12:54 |
| X-Fade | daniels: Hmm I pay 24 euro/mo for the same in NL :) | 12:54 |
| qgil | daniels: i thought you would be benefiting from the OSSO wireless network - i was told you live quite near from the office ;) | 12:55 |
| Toni | 24mbit is good for downloading iso's and dvd's, but for other I think it's quite overkill :) | 12:56 |
| Toni | I downgraded 8mbps -> 1mbps, now paying around 20eur/month | 12:56 |
| daniels | qgil: heh. i'm facing the other way, so i'd have to get on my roof and rig up some ghetto antenna, but i do actually have line-of-sight. | 12:56 |
| Whiz | Toni, I would downgrade to 1Mbps if it wouldnt cost so much :) | 12:56 |
| qgil | hum, i'm reading right now the small prints at http://www.elisa.fi/yksityisille/ - unsure if i agree with the terms and conditions ;) | 12:57 |
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| daniels | qgil: i went to the elisa shop in kamppi (level two, i think), asked for dsl, went through my name, address, etc, and that took about 15min. it was provisioned really quickly. | 12:58 |
| Whiz | elisa is quite annoying.. if their automation-systems get an idea that your pc is infected (worm/virus/spambot/etc), they will deny all outgoing/incoming traffic to your computer for couple of hours :) | 12:58 |
| chx | I guess everyone heard by now the exciting news: Skype for N800 coming in the summer | 12:58 |
| murrayc | daniels: Surely you can just get a visa by sending an SMS. | 12:58 |
| daniels | heh | 12:59 |
| qgil | in Spain dsl is a lottery: i got it in 3 days - my friend in another city got it in almost 2 months - same company and package | 12:59 |
| daniels | Whiz: ouch | 12:59 |
| Whiz | daniels, and it is all automated, so that elisa staff cannot disable it if the "protection" triggers.. | 13:00 |
| inz | everybody loves black boxes | 13:00 |
| qgil | Whiz: confess: what were you doing with your laptop | 13:00 |
| Whiz | qgil, part of my work is pc-support and at one office for some reason they tend to get viruses on their machines or something and elisa allways cuts the wire and I cant remotely logg in to their workstations to fix it.. | 13:01 |
| qgil | but you reckon it's suspicious... (just joking Whiz ) ;) | 13:03 |
| Whiz | :) | 13:03 |
| qgil | any alternative to elisa so I can start making some calls - thank you | 13:04 |
| Whiz | saunalahti is owned by elisa and as cheap as elisa but it doesnt (yet) have that annoying "virus protection" (if I remember right) | 13:05 |
| murrayc | If you want anything in Helsinki cheaper or faster, I guess that mentioning that you work for Nokia would be a good idea. | 13:05 |
| Whiz | hah | 13:05 |
| murrayc | Works for hotels. | 13:05 |
| qgil | murrayc: you mean helsinki or palermo? | 13:05 |
| Whiz | doesnt nokia recommend any ISP? i would guess that they have somekind co-operation with some isp or something.. | 13:05 |
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| daniels | yeah, they have a deal with elisa where you get 8mbit dsl for free, i think | 13:07 |
| daniels | but istr it being weirdly locked down, like you don't get any access to your modem | 13:07 |
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| qgil | apparently nobody is recommending this deal (?) - by default i rather pay my own home connection | 13:10 |
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| Whiz | if it doesnt have to be DSL, whatabout cable modem? http://www.welho.fi/Default.aspx?f=0&cl=2 :) | 13:11 |
| inz | "12:52 * qgil has been told by the landlord that there is no cable available in da house - damn!" | 13:12 |
| jonek | @nokia: congratulations on the well done STUN article/howto :) | 13:13 |
| sxpert-work | daniels: use the modem as a bridge, and set up your own router behind it | 13:13 |
| jonek | there is a typo in one of the headlines "transversal" should be "traversal" I think -> http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_stun_bora.html | 13:16 |
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| sxpert-work | jonek: yeah, would be nice to use the opengraphics chips in the next incarnation of the nxxx tablet :D | 13:20 |
| daniels | well, opengraphics doesn't exist, much less meet the power requirements, sooo ... | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | The OQO Model 02's docking station is *just* like something I'd like on a 770: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/video-hands-on-oqo-model-02/ | 13:21 |
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| Jaffa | (or N800) | 13:21 |
| daniels | (much less be made in volume, or at less than $us1000 a pop or whatever the dev boards were going for) | 13:21 |
| sxpert-work | daniels: well. the fpga based hardware exists at this time. | 13:22 |
| daniels | sxpert-work: right, and they still are fpga-based, and still cost more than twice as much as the tablet itself | 13:22 |
| sxpert-work | I was talking about the asic version that will eventually come out in a couple years | 13:22 |
| daniels | heh | 13:22 |
| daniels | wasn't it meant to be out a year ago? | 13:23 |
| sxpert-work | no. | 13:23 |
| daniels | anyway, we don't use any acceleration, except for yuv -> rgb colourspace conversion and scaling for videos. the rest is just software-rasterised. | 13:23 |
| sxpert-work | the fpga hardware was stated to appear at the end of 2006 or so | 13:23 |
| sxpert-work | which it did | 13:23 |
| sxpert-work | daniels: yeah. soon enough people will want opengl in there :D | 13:24 |
| daniels | yeah, well | 13:24 |
| AD-N770 | do you know where I can download the latest firmware for N800 ? http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 seems to be wrong | 13:26 |
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| kulve | AD-N770: this one: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010? | 13:31 |
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| AD-N770 | kulve at the page that you say: Instructions for manual update (Pop-up) -> http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 | 13:33 |
| AD-N770 | but this folder is not created yet, someone forgot it | 13:34 |
| AD-N770 | I'm at week 47-9 and I would like to update the device with the latest one | 13:35 |
| kulve | AD-N770: ah, sorry | 13:35 |
| kulve | "For updating your software using a Linux computer, go to www.maemo.org." and that talks only about 770.. | 13:36 |
| keesj | Jaffa, nice | 13:37 |
| kulve | well, hopefully the links are up-to-date by end of the week when I might get my device :) | 13:37 |
| keesj | I keep getting all those request for my email address it drives me mad | 13:41 |
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| pahartik | qgil: I recommend Sonera for ADSL in Finland... been using it for few years | 13:46 |
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| pahartik | qgil: fill form of document at "http://www.sonera.fi/laajakaista/saatavuuskysely" with street address and postal code and submit, and CGI supposedly tells if it is available for location | 13:50 |
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| dballester | hi to all | 13:52 |
| inz | good news everybody | 13:52 |
| inz | maemo-hackers osso-xterm now works w/ N800 | 13:52 |
| koen | inz: yay! | 13:53 |
| alump | great | 13:53 |
| inz | I wanted to debug libvte to see what happends, and apparently dropping to -O0 from -O2 fixed things =) | 13:53 |
| dballester | what's about n800? I'm seeing some photos right now. Any link to see features ? | 13:53 |
| koen | planet.maemo.org | 13:53 |
| moo_mou | I've been on an eternal quest to find a device that will make me happy | 13:54 |
| moo_mou | the features of the 770 just didn't jump out at me enough | 13:54 |
| moo_mou | but I'm going to die if I don't get an 800 | 13:54 |
| alump | so the new 2006 version is the one that works now in w800? | 13:54 |
| glass_ | i think you're wrong in looking at electronics then | 13:54 |
| pahartik | qgil: they use bridge mode of ADSL terminal and provide 5 public addresses by DHCP... only restriction I am aware of is that outgoing SMTP connections have to go through their SMTP server | 13:54 |
| NickDe | interesting | 13:55 |
| NickDe | there is already a new OS2007 update | 13:55 |
| NickDe | according to the n800 tableteer website | 13:55 |
| moo_mou | I'm not literally looking for a device to make me happy. I just wanted more functionality without having to get a cell phone. | 13:56 |
| inz | hmm, I'll take that back, it's not working too well after all | 13:57 |
| inz | I'll have to tune the vte lib somewhat | 13:57 |
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| dballester | If n770/n800 could be used as mobile phone too ( with bluetooth headset )... And i'm very happy with my n770! but... | 13:58 |
| |tbb| | is it possible to import kismet created accesspoint oints | 13:59 |
| |tbb| | to maemo - mapper | 13:59 |
| dwd | pahartik: Outgoing 25? You could probably bypass that by using 587, if you need to connect directly from MUA to a SMTP server for submission. | 13:59 |
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| pahartik | dwd: I could probably create SSH or other tunnel outside, but back when they blocked that port for outgoing connections, I was worried that incoming connections would get blocked too (I am running SMTP server to receive my mail at cave) | 14:02 |
| dwd | pahartik: Incoming is normally unaffected. Outgoing is fine, even if you run your own mail server. If you're accessing remote mailservers, you should be using port 587 anyway, not 25. | 14:03 |
| pahartik | dwd: so I do not much mind, as long as incoming SMTP works :) | 14:03 |
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| Toni | with some operators in .fi you need to route inbound SMTP via their MX also, but they forward the mails to your internal MX | 14:03 |
| dwd | Toni: That can be a little annoying. Especially if you have BINARYMIME or 8BITMIME, and they don't. | 14:05 |
| pahartik | dwd: hmmm... "submission 587/tcp # Submission [RFC2476]"... is that SMTP as well? | 14:05 |
| dwd | pahartik: A profile of it, yes. | 14:05 |
| dwd | pahartik: It basically splits off C2S and S2S connections in the mail infrastructure, so that different policies can be put in place for each somewhat easier. | 14:06 |
| dwd | pahartik: Also, quite a few extensions are specifically for submission, these days, although that again is more policy than anything else. But it's fair to say that you wouldn't want to be using BURL over links between MTAs, for instance. :-) | 14:08 |
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| jtra | a reference to skype in nokia announcement is interesting, from what I heard the skype was complaining about n770 being marginal platform before, but now it could also mean there would be skype client for n800 and also for n770 (if CPU performance allows it) because thay would gain userbase from "just" a recompile | 14:09 |
| florian_kc | good morning | 14:09 |
| Jaffa | lo florian_kc | 14:09 |
| dwd | I should probably do some self-publicity - my email client for the 770, Telomer, does all this port 587 and BURL stuff. | 14:09 |
| * pahartik looks at (fairly short) RFC 2476 | 14:10 | |
| dwd | pahartik: You can generally kick your MTA into "just doing it" through configuration. Oh, and that RFC has been obsoleted by another - I forget the number. | 14:10 |
| pahartik | dwd: I would guess so... it is Postfix | 14:12 |
| dwd | pahartik: Ah - For postfix you just define another SMTP service in master.cf, basically. | 14:12 |
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| pahartik | dwd: maybe you should refer to "Telomer" as "email client for Maemo" instead of "email client for 770"? | 14:15 |
| dwd | pahartik: Probably. :-) | 14:15 |
| dwd | pahartik: Except that I'd now have to say something like "email client for Maemo, 770, N800" or something. | 14:16 |
| konttori | Is the N800 email client of any use? | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | Reports say it's a bit better, but that's probably just down to extra CPU given djcb et al are working on Modest instead. | 14:20 |
| konttori | Ok. So odd that they have such trouble making a sane email client. Given that sylpheed worked just fine by itself. Just a few UI tuneups and that should have been it. | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | konttori: indeed. | 14:21 |
| * konttori released 1.21 media converter | 14:21 | |
| konttori | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=26&release_id=301 | 14:21 |
| konttori | Someone with N800 could go ahead and test the 400x240 resolution video. | 14:22 |
| Guardian | haha the last devel mailing list entry :) does porting a random poker or other linux app qualifies you to the 99 euros offer? ;) | 14:22 |
| * Jaffa isn't going to move Sylpheed port to Maemo 3 yet until he knows one of the following: a) if he's getting a developer N800, b) if a Maemo 3.0-based OS is going to be released for the 770. Having multiple branches and twice as many Scratchbox targets (and potentially Scratchbox installs) does not appear. | 14:22 | |
| Guardian | if so i'll port poker 3d cause 3d is better than 2xs | 14:22 |
| Guardian | 2d | 14:22 |
| Jaffa | Guardian: especially if it's not been ported already! Tsk ;-) | 14:22 |
| dwd | Guardian: I did wonder about that. | 14:22 |
| konttori | Jaffa: shouldn't the maemo 2 version of sylpheed work just fine in the N800? | 14:23 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Given that I use Python, I suppose I ought to install a second scratchbox and so on, on the basis that it should "just work". | 14:23 |
| Jaffa | konttori: I'm not sure - the docs aren't clear: I got the impression at least a recompile is needed (again) | 14:24 |
| Guardian | and, does it have to be opensource or freely available ? | 14:24 |
| konttori | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 14:24 |
| konttori | I got the impression that most of the apps work ok on 2007 | 14:24 |
| Guardian | please visit www.maemo.org for details that are not posted yet :) | 14:24 |
| Jaffa | dwd: I've been playing a lot with Python recently with a slew of Freevo patches, might try doing some 770 devel with it (got an idea for some Psion EPOC R5-like apps I need) | 14:24 |
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| Fatal | this is the day i kick myself in the face for not finishing one of my projects :/ | 14:25 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Feel free to join me in working on a decent email client with a decent client library. :-) | 14:25 |
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| dwd | Guardian: My impression is that the E99 offer is only for open source developers. More accurately, for open source developers who are good at self-publicity. | 14:26 |
| Jaffa | konttori: Nope, the docs are fairly clear - although the API hasn't changed, the libraries are not binary compatible so a recompile *is* necessary: http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_to_maemo_bora.html#libraries_common | 14:26 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: maemo 3.0 uses the same ABI as 2.x, so any incompatabilities is caused by changes in library versions | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | "The AI 2006 is forwards compatible with AI 2007 but the new Single Click Install method that is introduced in AI 2007 is not working in AI 2006 or older versions." | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | Guardian: dwd: my impression is that the €99 offer is for open-source developers that Nokia wants to start porting their software to the N800 | 14:27 |
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| Jaffa | There are only ~170 apps on ApplicationCatalog2006, + ~100 on Wip, so that should mean one for everyone there, right? :-/ | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | so, write something that Nokia would want to run on the tabled, and waith for the phone call | 14:27 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: that would have been my assumption, but ferenc mentioned *existing* 770/Maemo work is a consideration (whether or not it's "the" consideration, I dunno) | 14:28 |
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| mgedmin | well, you're supposed to port your apps from mistral/scirocco to bora also | 14:28 |
| Jaffa | True | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | actually, if nokia really wants you to port something to the tablet, they might just give you one for free | 14:29 |
| * mgedmin would happily buy a N800 at full price right now, if nokia's online shops would ship to Lithuania | 14:30 | |
| moo_mou | :( | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | I mean, some of the tablets were assembled in Estonia, that's like 200 km from here | 14:31 |
| Guardian | is it me or there is currently no such thing as an application form for this 99euros offer ? | 14:31 |
| florian_kc | hrm... we do, but i have no idea if our distributor ships them already | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | Guardian: see the /topic | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | :) | 14:31 |
| konttori | I think it's good that nokia asks you to pay some money. That way there will be only valid buyers / semi valid buyers for the developer versions | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: midnight raid on the factory? | 14:31 |
| dwd | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6240479.stm - a whole new meaning to "car crash". | 14:31 |
| Guardian | maybe the question is not good enough then :) | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | konttori: presumably the "selection panel" (or whomever) will only choose active & worthy people anyway. I'd imagine a mix of existing developers and new, high-profile OSS people they want to attract. | 14:32 |
| dwd | Jaffa: I'd guess they'll simply pick those they think will give them the most free marketing. | 14:33 |
| konttori | Jaffa: true enough. | 14:34 |
| konttori | I'm still surprised that N800 didn't include GPS. Considering how much GPS apps have been in discussion around 770. | 14:35 |
| mgedmin | sell GPS separately == more $ and € | 14:35 |
| konttori | But still, I prefer camera to GPS | 14:35 |
| nomis | I don't really see a point in including GPS. | 14:35 |
| nomis | Connecting a mouse via Bluetooth seems way more useful. | 14:36 |
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| * pahartik loves Bluetooth | 14:38 | |
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| * dballester launches a wishlist: easy way to use bluetooth headset for n770. An integrated PIM ( calendar, tasks... ). Mobile phone support ;) | 14:41 | |
| mgedmin | dballester: does that imply that there is a hard way to use a bluetooth headset for the n770? | 14:43 |
| pahartik | dballester: all that, and encrypted storage for authentication data (like Keyring on PalmOS) | 14:43 |
| mgedmin | well, a hard way that doesn't imply writing your own kernel drivers with audio support for the bluetooth chip | 14:43 |
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| dballester | mgedmin, i've read some time ago people make some tests | 14:44 |
| mgedmin | iirc they could connect to the headset but couldn't actually transfer audio | 14:44 |
| timeless | cmihai: [gmail] Inbox (483554) that's unread conversations :) | 14:46 |
| dballester | mgedmin, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/CategoryBluetooth?highlight=%28%28BluetoothHeadset%29%29 | 14:47 |
| dwd | pahartik: GNOME has a keyring - couldn't that be ported? | 14:47 |
| mgedmin | dballester: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/BluetoothHeadset | 14:48 |
| mgedmin | so, it will work in the future | 14:48 |
| timeless | dballester: does blue tooth headset not work w/ your 770? | 14:49 |
| mgedmin | timeless: if anyone reported their bt headset working with their 770, what would be great and unexpected news | 14:49 |
| dballester | timeless, i've not tried, only read 'what easy is to do' | 14:49 |
| * timeless frowns | 14:50 | |
| timeless | my headset isn't where i thought it was | 14:50 |
| timeless | i never tried, i kinda assumed it worked | 14:50 |
| timeless | google talk worked fine when i tried that | 14:50 |
| mgedmin | timeless: I haven't tried, but I believe http://maemo.org/maemowiki/BluetoothHeadset | 14:50 |
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| |tbb| | anyone knows, that maemo-mapper supports importing kismet gps map | 14:51 |
| pahartik | dwd: "/usr/share/doc/gnome-keyring/README" looks good, but I do not know how to access it | 14:52 |
| timeless | wow | 14:52 |
| timeless | oh well | 14:52 |
| dwd | pahartik: DBus, I *think*. But I'm not an expert in any form. | 14:52 |
| pahartik | dwd: "it" as in "stored authentication data" | 14:52 |
| timeless | sorry :( | 14:53 |
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| Guardian | dwd: just read the announcement again on maemo.org, in fact now i assume that you have to be a maemo opensource developer having already contributed somehow to the application list | 14:55 |
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| |tbb| | anyone familar with maemo mapper? | 14:58 |
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| Guardian | any way to create semi transparent windows/widgets with gtk on the 770 ? | 14:58 |
| keesj | I think there is some kind of call that can be used to tell the root widget to use the same texture as the parent widget | 15:04 |
| keesj | http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/gdk-constants.html#gdk-parent-relative-constant | 15:04 |
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| keesj | So you perhaps can fake it a bit:) | 15:05 |
| Guardian | gonna try | 15:06 |
| Guardian | i also found that: http://macslow.thepimp.net/?p=26 but i guess it has too high requirements | 15:07 |
| pahartik | dwd: how does one configure Telomer to communicate with IMAP server on port 1430 of localhost? | 15:08 |
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| Jaffa | Alarm interface FTW: http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_alarm_interface_bora.html | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | And input method documentation too. Lots of excellent docs | 15:13 |
| dwd | pahartik: One configures Polymer to talk to host.name.com:1430 | 15:13 |
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| pahartik | dwd: I do not have ACAP server... | 15:17 |
| Guardian | does the hildon him bora how to apply also to N770 ? tko ? | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | Guardian: I'd imagine it's bora-specific, so until the 770 gets a Maemo 3.0-based OS,... | 15:19 |
| Guardian | any date for this ? | 15:20 |
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| jonek | Jaffa: http://www.maemo.org//downloads/maemo_3_compatibility.html states "For those who would like to have both Nokia 770 and Nokia N800 maemo development environments there will be at the end of January new maemo 2.2 maintenance release supporting same Scratchbox Apophis R4 environment as maemo 3.0 release." | 15:21 |
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| Jaffa | Guardian: it's also an "if" not a "when", as no-one's confirmed that there *would* be an OS 2007 release for the 770. | 15:21 |
| Guardian | sure | 15:21 |
| Guardian | anyway for the 770 seems that there is still the possibility to write a complete GtkIMContext from scratch | 15:22 |
| jonek | sadly it doesn't say there will be maemo 3.0 for the 770 | 15:22 |
| Jaffa | jonek: yeah, doesn't bode well: so developers targetting both devices will only need one scratchbox environment but with *four* rootstraps (SDK_PC_770, SDK_ARM_770, SDK_PC_800, SDK_ARM_800) :-( | 15:22 |
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| jonek | Jaffa: IIRC Apophis R4 has disk space advantages compared to 0.9.8. but I don't understand if that is in regard to rootstraps or toolchains | 15:27 |
| * Jaffa hopes so as another couple of 1GB rootstraps will have be running for the hills | 15:27 | |
| jtra | ha, cool, you can edit virtual keyboard layout in xml, then compile it to .vkb file - http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html (bottom of page) now I wonder how many of this applies to n770 | 15:28 |
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| Jaffa | jtra: I imagine that bit does | 15:29 |
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| nelson_bom | Mmmmmmmm, crunchy dual sdcard goodness. | 15:35 |
| Guardian | well people really wanting to build .vkb files could already do it | 15:36 |
| Guardian | there is an .html file somewhere in the rootstrap describing the content | 15:36 |
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| jonek | will new versions of libraries be available only for OS 2007 (and maemo 3.0) or will OS 2006 (and maemo 2.1/2.2) be updated, too? | 15:39 |
| Jaffa | jonek: define "libraries"? | 15:39 |
| jonek | gstreamer/alsalib libjingle and such things | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | Good question, if 2.2's only a maintenance release to get SB Apophis compatibility, I'd guess "no" :( | 15:41 |
| jonek | basically lib*.deb and *dev.deb | 15:41 |
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| Jaffa | However, the lack of an end-user Maemo 3 image for 770s could be the trigger which causes taking Maemo 2.2, 3.0 and the root straps and creating a community image if 770 owners get "stranded" | 15:41 |
| jonek | Jaffa: ;-) I'd like to hear something more offical | 15:42 |
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| k-s | hi guys | 15:53 |
| k-s | lots buzz going on :-) | 15:53 |
| k-s | new device, new life :-) | 15:54 |
| roope | It's shiny. :) | 15:54 |
| * dwd is possibly the only person who prefers the old look. | 15:54 | |
| daniels | Jaffa: be assured that this sentiment is pretty well-known in nokia. | 15:55 |
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| k-s | dwd: I also rather it | 15:55 |
| k-s | guys, any german guy here? | 15:55 |
| |tbb| | jup | 15:56 |
| k-s | canola still have no german translator :-( | 15:56 |
| dwd | Out of curiosity, has anyone actually tried putting OS2007 onto a 770 and seen what happens? | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | daniels: that's good to know. I hope it'll all turn out alright, we've had no *definitive* statement yet about no Maemo 3.0 OS for 770s, so we could all just be speculating whilst you Nokians sit quietly | 15:56 |
| daniels | dwd: it won't even flash, let alone boot. | 15:56 |
| nelson_bom | konttori: the reason you really want a separate GPS receiver is because the best place for GPS reception is the worst place for a user interface. | 15:56 |
| k-s | Jaffa: it's on public svn, so you can recomplie and generate it yourself | 15:56 |
| daniels | Jaffa: unfortunately i have to hide behind the standard corporate shield of 'it's not my place to confirm or deny', sorry. but we definitely know internally. | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | daniels: yup, understood. | 15:57 |
| MDK | robtaylor: ping ping | 15:57 |
| Guard][an | re | 15:57 |
| Jaffa | k-s: indeed, and if it came to it, that's fantastic. The first thing would be to try and move Opera and other proprietary stuff from existing images | 15:57 |
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| k-s | Jaffa: yep, prop stuff sucks a lot | 15:58 |
| dwd | daniels: If OS2007 does get backported to the 770, will it magically sprout a webcam? | 15:58 |
| k-s | :-( | 15:58 |
| daniels | dwd: bootloader and kernel are hugely device-specific. | 15:58 |
| k-s | dwd: ahahahahah | 15:58 |
| daniels | dwd: yeah, and two full-size sd slots. it's sweet. | 15:58 |
| daniels | and a hardware qwerty keyboard. engadget were annoyed that itos2006 didn't somehow include a hardware qwerty keyboard, so we took that into account. | 15:58 |
| * tigert tries compiz on the desktop again | 15:58 | |
| * tigert is amused now that his tooltips teleport away in a puff of smoke | 15:59 | |
| dwd | daniels: Cool. I'm assuming we'll need to water it well, to make this work? | 15:59 |
| tigert | but somehow I dont think this will be funny for a long time | 15:59 |
| nelson_bom | daniels: nahhh, you don't want a qwerty keyboard for a handheld machine. If you're typing with two hands, who is holding your machine? | 15:59 |
| dwd | nelson_bom: Gosh, we all have servants for that sort of thing. Don't you? | 16:00 |
| daniels | nelson_bom: tell engadget this | 16:00 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: the antigravity devic.. oops | 16:00 |
| nelson_bom | daniels: and for that matter, who is holding your keyboard? | 16:00 |
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| nelson_bom | daniels: here's my solution: http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite | 16:00 |
| * dwd mutters something about the agenda. | 16:00 | |
| * tigert switches back to metacity and normal desktop | 16:01 | |
| daniels | now we just need a canola release for the n800 | 16:01 |
| * k-s wants German translators for Canola :-) | 16:01 | |
| tigert | wow, GL sweetness was fun a whole 3 minutes | 16:01 |
| koen | now we just need a source release of canola | 16:01 |
| k-s | we already have pt_BR, es_ES, es_AR, ca_ES | 16:01 |
| Guard][an | will canola ever be released as source ? | 16:02 |
| * andrunko hides | 16:02 | |
| k-s | polish is in the way, as well as french | 16:02 |
| Jaffa | koen: I found it ironic they wanted help translating it, my unspoken reaction was "so what do I get?" | 16:02 |
| |tbb| | i think not | 16:02 |
| nelson_bom | tigert: I can't use a GL desktop until I can afford three 3D cards for each monitor. | 16:02 |
| konttori | nelson_bom: a very good point | 16:02 |
| koen | Jaffa: my thought exactly | 16:02 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Yes, that was what I thought. | 16:02 |
| k-s | koen, Guard][an: we hope! | 16:02 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: its not that it isnt fluid or nice | 16:02 |
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| k-s | Jaffa: so far, you get it in your language | 16:02 |
| tigert | but the stuff is just so all-over-your-face | 16:02 |
| dwd | Jaffa: But then I thought, hang on, I don't speak any other language well enough to translate it anyway. | 16:02 |
| k-s | Jaffa: i18n strings are somehow part of the code | 16:03 |
| tigert | its way overdone imho | 16:03 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: that also went through my mind, so I didn't say anything ;-) | 16:03 |
| tigert | "hey look, I can wobble, so therefore.. um.. I WOBBLE! LOOKIE!" | 16:03 |
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| nelson_bom | tigert: sure ... it's like when we got color screens. Everthing had to be high contrast colors. | 16:03 |
| tigert | it'll get right eventually | 16:03 |
| nelson_bom | tigert: once it's not a toy, people will figure out the pastels. | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | k-s: but if I'm capable of translating it, I can already understand what it says ;-) | 16:03 |
| dwd | Jaffa: I mean, I suppose I could translate it into Bad French, or Really Limited Welsh. | 16:03 |
| k-s | Jaffa, koen, Guard][an: you guys could put some pressure to release the code... :-) | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | dwd: I'll help with le francais mal. | 16:04 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: interesting keyboard idea | 16:04 |
| k-s | Jaffa, koen, Guard][an: I'm open source guy and I want that, but I'm an employee and can't do much | 16:04 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: do the keys click? | 16:04 |
| dwd | Jaffa: "Le Menu File", "Le Exit", etc. | 16:04 |
| k-s | ehehehe | 16:04 |
| Jaffa | "Le objet ne trouve pas" - oh no, that'd be MediaStreamer with MythTV | 16:04 |
| nelson_bom | tigert: not completely silent: the sound is more related to the feel. Feel V. important. | 16:05 |
| tigert | I agree | 16:05 |
| tigert | because you need to feel which key clicks | 16:05 |
| tigert | tactile feedback | 16:05 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: Welsh is harder, you do stuff like "Ecsut", and "Ffail Meniw" | 16:05 |
| nelson_bom | They're Marquardt keymodules. /me fawns in the direction of Germany. | 16:05 |
| Guard][an | jaffa: are you french ? | 16:05 |
| tigert | its funny that I can type a LOT faster with the 770 / N800 thumb keyboard, | 16:05 |
| * dwd gapes at Guard][an | 16:05 | |
| tigert | when I have touchscreen tap sound turned loud | 16:05 |
| Jaffa | Guard][an: nah, British. Got an A in my French GCSE (god knows how though ;-)) | 16:06 |
| Guard][an | :) | 16:06 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: reichelt or conrad? :) | 16:06 |
| dwd | Jaffa: So did I, amazingly. | 16:06 |
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| Guard][an | i'm french, and what i hate most is localized error messages :) then i have to guess what the original message could have been, then google | 16:06 |
| Guard][an | how smart ... | 16:06 |
| * tigert got a reichelt.de catalog from marius | 16:06 | |
| nelson_bom | tigert: er .... neither? | 16:06 |
| Jaffa | Guard][an: wow, your English is amazing | 16:06 |
| tigert | mmmmmm... components.. :) | 16:06 |
| Guard][an | also, a lot of french ppl lose their time translating stuff to french, like samba documentation in french, or opengl documentation in french | 16:06 |
| Guard][an | instead of just contributing to the project ... | 16:07 |
| nelson_bom | tigert: actually, these keymodules are made about 130 miles from my house in the US. | 16:07 |
| * Jaffa *very* nearly would be fluent in French. When I was 8 my family nearly moved to Paris with my Dad's job. | 16:07 | |
| tigert | :) | 16:07 |
| tigert | right | 16:07 |
| tigert | oh right | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | But it fell through at just the last minute, so we unpacked the house and my parents had another son instead... | 16:07 |
| tigert | got that wrong | 16:07 |
| Guard][an | jaffa: i try to brush it up from time to time :p | 16:07 |
| tigert | those names are german webstores that sell "stuff" | 16:07 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: input methods is interesting stuff too, but my reason of fondness into switchs etc is flight simulators | 16:08 |
| tigert | nelson_bom: http://tigert.1g.fi/kuvat/MIK/_DSC6957.jpg/full | 16:08 |
| Jaffa | dwd: I think my French reading just about scraped me there, which I can still just about manage (well, when in museums and stuff with family on holiday) | 16:08 |
| * Jaffa 'd love to be able to speak French properly | 16:08 | |
| dwd | Jaffa: I can still read technical French, which frankly astounds me. Can't speak very much, though. | 16:09 |
| Guard][an | will the N800 have 3D acceleration ? opengl es ? nothing ? | 16:09 |
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| daniels | Guard][an: no, it does not. sorry. | 16:09 |
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| nelson_bom | tigert: looks like a nice collection of switches. | 16:10 |
| Guard][an | well yeah, it's not a psp after all | 16:10 |
| mgedmin | omg, reading the #maemo backlog is becoming a full-time job | 16:10 |
| mgedmin | tigert: xcompmgr is a lightweight way to add window shadows and optional transparencies to metacity | 16:11 |
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| daniels | mgedmin: please don't put 'xcompmgr' and 'lightweight' in the same sentence | 16:11 |
| k-s | ehehehe | 16:12 |
| k-s | guys, do someone has experienced with compiler optimizations? | 16:12 |
| k-s | -march, -mfpu, ...? | 16:12 |
| k-s | thumb and like? | 16:12 |
| daniels | k-s: ish. what do you want to know? | 16:13 |
| k-s | daniels: what were your results? | 16:13 |
| tigert | daniels: ;) | 16:13 |
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| jonek | daniels: if I use a sbox toolchain outside of sbox (0.9.8, gcc) to crosscompile for the Nokia 770, do I have to provide the -mcpu= switch? | 16:14 |
| daniels | k-s: in what sense? compiling bigger stuff with thumb results in a net win because the result is much smaller, and thus occupies less memory/cache, but thumb is inherently slower, iirc. | 16:14 |
| daniels | jonek: i don't know, sorry | 16:14 |
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| k-s | daniels: what -march or -mtune are you using? | 16:16 |
| k-s | daniels: for performance critical apps, like games, players or things like that? | 16:16 |
| daniels | k-s: i don't know, whatever the standard is | 16:16 |
| k-s | I'm using -Os | 16:16 |
| jonek | nevertheless what is the correct -mcpu setting for gcc and the 770? | 16:16 |
| k-s | daniels: yes, I'm also using the standard | 16:16 |
| daniels | k-s: i'm using -O2. yes, smaller is nice, not _that_ nice. | 16:17 |
| k-s | daniels: -Os = -O2, but trades loop unrolling by space | 16:17 |
| k-s | I hope to use GCC4, that provides ways to optimize the software based on profile input | 16:17 |
| NickDe | oh sweet | 16:18 |
| AD-N770 | AD-N770 try apt-get upgrade in a N800 running the firmware from week 47 | 16:18 |
| NickDe | I just encoded a movie using media converter for the n800 | 16:18 |
| nelson_bom | So when I was whinging about how SD was an obvious choice even three years ago, I'll bet that several people were having to keep their mouths shut. | 16:18 |
| NickDe | works perfectly | 16:18 |
| NickDe | awesome | 16:18 |
| koen | and thumb doesn't save much compared to -Os | 16:18 |
| k-s | daniels: are you using -fomit-frame-pointer, -ffast-math or other switch | 16:18 |
| k-s | koen: does -Os and thumb works well togheter? | 16:18 |
| daniels | k-s: for the x server? no | 16:18 |
| daniels | koen: yes, but thumb + O2 still unrolls and the like. | 16:19 |
| koen | k-s: they did in my experiments | 16:19 |
| konttori | NickDe: Can you try the 400x240 resolution as well? | 16:19 |
| NickDe | I did! | 16:19 |
| koen | daniels: in the end my rootfs.tar.bz2 was 100kB smaller with Os+thumb than Os+arm | 16:19 |
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| k-s | koen: what gcc options are you using, and what purpose? | 16:19 |
| konttori | and it worked! Great news! | 16:19 |
| NickDe | 400x240 29.9 fps | 16:19 |
| AD-N770 | I had the bad idea of doing it with ssh via wifi | 16:19 |
| NickDe | worked fine in the default n800 media player | 16:19 |
| koen | daniels: and on ~20MB that isn't much | 16:19 |
| NickDe | I was very happy | 16:19 |
| daniels | konttori: it did? i thought pixel doubling was broken as shipped. odd. | 16:19 |
| konttori | Oh man, that's just so cool | 16:19 |
| daniels | NickDe: oh, it works fine in the media player, yeah. but mplayer will be broken. | 16:20 |
| AD-N770 | currently last message is: Stopping WLAN Connection Daemon: | 16:20 |
| AD-N770 | :) | 16:20 |
| NickDe | daniels: meh as long as I have my movies for the flight to vegas tomorrow | 16:20 |
| NickDe | I'm catching the last 2 days of CES | 16:20 |
| konttori | So, I guess default player uses scaling even for the 400x240 movie and not pixel doubling. | 16:21 |
| konttori | I wonder if the image is more fuzzy on N800 default player than on 770 mplayer. | 16:21 |
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| Jaffa | Yay, a bloke at work's just ordered his N800 :) | 16:23 |
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| k-s | koen: what gcc options are you using, and what purpose? | 16:24 |
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| nelson_bom | koen: how is FIC coming on the openmoko? | 16:26 |
| koen | nelson_bom: I suspect they won't make 2007.1 for the release | 16:27 |
| nelson_bom | koen: everything good takes time. It's the bad things that happen overnight. | 16:27 |
| daniels | konttori: it's still hardware-scaled | 16:28 |
| konttori | daniels: ok, so it's probably a bit fuzzier than it would be with pixel doubling. But 400x240... anyway great news! | 16:29 |
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| daniels | konttori: er. why would it be fuzzier? | 16:29 |
| konttori | Just thinking that if it's scaling on some kind of float operations, the pixels wouldn't be that exact. Bu go figure. I would need to see if that's the case or not. | 16:30 |
| daniels | you'd be hard-pressed to notice the difference at 220dpi, tbh | 16:31 |
| daniels | performance probably won't be as good as on the 770 with pixel doubling for various, relatively complicated, reasons, but that's already fixed and will be in a future update if we ever hypothetically release one, etc | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | daniels: btw, someone mentioned a "hardware keyboard" separate to "Bluetooth keyboard" in Control Panel (this could be wrong), if so is there anything you can say about that? Or is it miscommunication and the only hardware keyboard planned on being supported is BT | 16:37 |
| Disconnect | Jaffa: its bluetooth | 16:37 |
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| koen | Jaffa: powered usb keyboard? | 16:37 |
| daniels | Jaffa: it's bluetooth. there's a bluetooth applet, and a hardware keyboard applet for selecting the keyboard layout for bluetooth keyboards. | 16:37 |
| daniels | (we're using xkb now, so no need for any more ghetto xmodmap hacks.) | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | daniels: Ah, cool. Thought that'd be it. | 16:38 |
| AD-N770 | apt-get upgrade, had been a bad idea :) | 16:38 |
| AD-N770 | any one has the bora firmware and can send it to me ? | 16:38 |
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| k-s | any idea when google talk desktop will get video? | 16:50 |
| k-s | and which extension n800 uses for it? | 16:50 |
| _matthias___ | its not been as busy in here for month now ;) - new hardware makes geeks happy obviously | 16:54 |
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| dwd | Hmmm. Just noticed that Mistral, at least, is using OpenSSL 0.9.7 - any reason why it's not using 0.9.8? | 17:04 |
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| waite | Congrats on the N800 guys! | 17:07 |
| waite | And Bora no less. | 17:14 |
| Disconnect | wow, sw update already? | 17:14 |
| waite | I'd expect a few more as people get the N800 and find issues | 17:15 |
| Disconnect | yah | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | Anyone had a Developer Device discount code yet? (figured I'll ask about once per day) | 17:19 |
| koen | Jaffa: nope | 17:19 |
| koen | Jaffa: but even with a discount code I would need to convince my SO :) | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | :) | 17:20 |
| waite | koen, I know the feeling. After the holidays is always a really tough time to buy. But for the price...I might just convince her. | 17:20 |
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| dwd | koen: I suppose I could point out that a new N800 would free my 770 for more Tux Paint for the kids... | 17:21 |
| waite | Birthday is coming up. But I am not really expecting to get the devel discount. | 17:21 |
| waite | hehehe. | 17:21 |
| koen | waite: my birthday is between x-mas and new year | 17:22 |
| waite | Mine has become an internet radio for my 2 yr old | 17:22 |
| koen | so nokia was 2 weeks too late | 17:22 |
| dwd | Ah, got it - perfect justification. Two kids, therefore I *need* two Tux Paint devices for long journeys. | 17:22 |
| waite | koen, bummer! I have a month so I migh be safe. | 17:22 |
| daniels | koen: compusa started selling the first n800s exactly on my birthday (and it was one of the big milestone birthdays as well) | 17:22 |
| waite | dwd, Run with that. If it works for you! | 17:22 |
| waite | :) | 17:22 |
| koen | daniels: congrats | 17:23 |
| daniels | and happy birthday to yourself too | 17:23 |
| koen | thanks | 17:23 |
| waite | I have another decade before I hit one of thos milestones again. I hope I can get me an N800 by then! | 17:23 |
| * Jaffa 's due for a new phone in a month or so, so here's hoping for an iPhone to go with a (crossing fingers) discounted N800 | 17:23 | |
| dwd | waite: Try Tux Paint for the kids. My two-year old loves it. My 5 year old is a little superior, and prefers the Sketch app. (I don't know why, I reckon Tux Paint is much more fun) | 17:23 |
| timeless | i can't understand why anyone would like sketch | 17:24 |
| timeless | tux paint has to be better | 17:24 |
| koen | Jaffa: a nokia 6210 works pretty sweet with osx | 17:24 |
| waite | Hmm. I'll give it a shot. It would save me from dancing around the house at 6:00 AM on a Saturday! | 17:24 |
| dwd | daniels: My last birthday was a milestone in hex. Although I suppose 0x21 still sounds good. | 17:24 |
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| waite | Sounds like we got an old crowd here :) | 17:24 |
| Disconnect | http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_770 doesn't accept 800 id's | 17:25 |
| waite | For OSS projects anyway. | 17:25 |
| dwd | Disconnect: I'll sell you a 770 ID for GPB 269. | 17:25 |
| dwd | GBP, rather. | 17:25 |
| Disconnect | dwd: ..or i'll just finish opening my 770... | 17:25 |
| dwd | Damn, thought it was worth a try. :-) | 17:26 |
| roope | Sketch is simple. :) | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | there's nothing usable on a n800 at that page anyway | 17:26 |
| part | mgedmin: flasher maybe | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | I think that's at downloads/d3.html | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | d3.php actually | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | flasher-3.0 | 17:27 |
| part | ah | 17:27 |
| Disconnect | yah but no image | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | I haven't seen the os2007 image anywhere | 17:27 |
| * Jaffa neither. | 17:27 | |
| mgedmin | the page where it's supposed to appear (http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800) is 404 | 17:27 |
| Disconnect | windows updater has it | 17:27 |
| part | most devices should already have the latest software | 17:28 |
| Disconnect | links into the 770 update pages for upgrading with linux | 17:28 |
| Disconnect | part: mine said there was an update | 17:28 |
| ssvb | daniels: can you tell us what graphics chip is used in n800? does it support scaling? such information could help fixing mplayer (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/006822.html) | 17:28 |
| daniels | they're not up on maemo.org, rest assured they're not being deliberately hidden from you, and you'll know when it does. | 17:29 |
| part | disconnect: what said that? | 17:29 |
| Disconnect | tableteer page. (it shipped with 47-20) | 17:29 |
| daniels | ssvb: yes, it's exactly the same setup as the 770. omap display controller feeds into an external lcd controller. but there's not much point in doing it yourself. just use the standard xv extension, which the x server now provides support for: that's how the media player does it. | 17:29 |
| Disconnect | so the update notification worked ;) | 17:30 |
| dragorn | daniels: I assume you're on the hardware dev group? | 17:32 |
| daniels | dragorn: no, software dev. i'm the x maintainer, and do some kernel stuff as well. | 17:33 |
| dragorn | daniels: Cool. Know anyone I could harass about getting more details on the wifi stuff? :) | 17:33 |
| dragorn | daniels: I'm trying to determine if the rawtx lockout is in the firmware or in the driver binary blob (well, I know it's in the driver binary blob, but I'm trying to find out if it's a firmware limitation as well) | 17:34 |
| daniels | dragorn: to be honest, i don't know, and i don't think you're likely to find out; if it's a limit deliberately placed there (for whatever reasons, be they good or bad), people are unlikely to let you know how to circumvent them. ;) | 17:35 |
| dragorn | daniels: I sort of suspected that answer, though I know for a fact that there would be a bunch of customers waiting for master/inject mode :P | 17:35 |
| dragorn | Wifi firmware/drivers are universally a mess | 17:36 |
| sxpert-work | dragorn: that's the fault of those stupid US companies that have too many lawyers in love with patents, NDAs and the like | 17:37 |
| * dragorn nods | 17:37 | |
| ssvb | daniels: Thanks for the information. Will there be an update with xv extension for 770? Also is scaling done by ARM or DSP (in software) or using graphics chip? | 17:37 |
| dragorn | oh I know | 17:37 |
| dragorn | well, partly the fault of that, partly the FCC, w/ the binary blob I can't (legally) try to figure out how much of the TI chipset is firmware based and how much is driver offload | 17:38 |
| dragorn | and I've been, well, too lazy to try to find alternative docs on the chipset elsewhere | 17:38 |
| dragorn | It's nice that it actually reports valid FCS bytes, that was a surprise. Not fundamentally too useful I don't think, but a surprise. | 17:38 |
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| daniels | ssvb: a) no, unless the kernel support is written at some point; b) using the gpu | 17:43 |
| Jaffa | For those with N800's a Mac OS X inspired background which should go with the default theme quite nicely: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#bg | 17:45 |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | http://www.nokiausa.com/N800 | No, the new image isn't available yet for non-Windows" | 17:50 | |
| mgedmin | whoa, my 770 is going crazy | 17:53 |
| Disconnect | jealousy probably ;) | 17:53 |
| AD-N770 | nethack prerelease for bora at http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/n770galaxy/beta/nethack_3.4.3_armel.deb | 17:53 |
| |tbb| | better than u going ;) | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | trying to ssh into it gives me either /bin/sh: Too many open files in system | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | or -sh: error while loading shared libraries: libcrypt.so.1: cannot open shared object file: Error 23 | 17:53 |
| bstock | so does anyone know if the 2007 os on the N800 is compatable/backported to the 770? | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | bstock: it is neither | 17:54 |
| bstock | :( | 17:54 |
| |tbb| | what about nethack what does this package contain? | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | nokians say they will continue to release os updates for the 770 | 17:54 |
| bstock | so 2006.2 is the best we're gonna get? | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | but I don't know whether that will be 2006.3 or 2007-for-the-770 | 17:54 |
| AD-N770 | tbb is a game | 17:54 |
| Disconnect | |tbb|: nethack, i'd guess.... | 17:54 |
| bstock | ah ok | 17:54 |
| koen | thanks to eabi you can actually run OS2006 apps | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | FBREADER!!!! | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | 2154 open files | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | all of them ~/.FBReader/config.changes | 17:55 |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | http://www.nokiausa.com/N800 | No, the new image isn't available yet for non-Windows | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported" | 17:55 | |
| koen | but keep in mind that the reverse isn't true, since the n800 is armv6 | 17:55 |
| dragorn | heh. Someone failed to do a fclose :P | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | looks like my mysterious crashes are explained | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | I always have fbreader running | 17:56 |
| |tbb| | is this a game? | 17:56 |
| florian_kc | http://ossostage.cidercone.com/~ferenc/ | 17:56 |
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| florian_kc | gpe pim app for os/2007 work now too | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | florian_kc: excellent. | 17:57 |
| dragorn | mgedmin: Throw a ulimit wrapper around the binary | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | I'll do something better: report a bug | 17:57 |
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| dragorn | mgedmin: and at least then it will crash fbreader instead of your nokia | 17:57 |
| dragorn | mgedmin: well, yes, that would be better :P But as a stopgap, ulimit is handy. | 17:57 |
| florian_kc | ferenc created these nice install files for them :-) | 17:58 |
| roope | that dev program thing is a bit strange. are they really picking 500 different developers. That's quite much work. :) | 17:58 |
| *** phil|sleep is now known as philipl | 17:58 | |
| Jaffa | roope: so it would appear | 17:58 |
| dwd | roope: Yeah, much easier to pick the same developer 500 times. | 17:59 |
| roope | Yeah, the guy called iBay. | 17:59 |
| Jaffa | roope: I suppose it's easier than sifting through 1000 applications (until they get to 384 and run out of names) | 17:59 |
| roope | I guess that's true also. | 18:00 |
| roope | But it kind of excludes potential future developers. | 18:01 |
| * gpd ponders the merits of a bluetooth keyboard | 18:02 | |
| Jaffa | roope: If I was doing it, I'd allocate, say, 50% to existing contributors and 50% to high-profile, targetted non-current Maemo, but OSS, developers. | 18:03 |
| dwd | Jaffa: If I was doing it, I'd allocate all of them to people actively working on email applications. | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Oh, yes - definitely :) | 18:04 |
| lle | I'd just sell them on ebay and go drink some beer | 18:04 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Thought you might agree. :-) | 18:04 |
| Jaffa | dwd: :) | 18:04 |
| koen | does anyone have the url for the package versions of the various maemo versions handy? | 18:04 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: I reckon 100 each should do us, what do you think? | 18:04 |
| keesj | all this N800 talk really makes it impossible for me to work.I don't want to miss crucial information | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | Heaven forbid I would try to make money off it. I'd use 100 to buy 100 N800s - just imagine a Beowulf cluster of those! | 18:06 |
| koen | http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/source/ is funny | 18:06 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Oh, *cool* idea... Mobile beowulf... | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | Especially if you could do some mesh networking handoff so the grid gained in power as more devices came in range, and handled nodes going out of range. | 18:09 |
| * dragorn twitches at the mention of grids | 18:09 | |
| dragorn | Goddamn buzzwords :P | 18:09 |
| * Jaffa used to work for IBM, can't help it ;-) | 18:09 | |
| gpd | can you really only use Fat on the cards? Ext3 won't work? | 18:09 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Hmmm... I think I know some people doing wireless mesh grid computing, actually. | 18:09 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: I used to be a mainframe monkey :P | 18:09 |
| daniels | lle: why do you have to sell n800s on ebay in order to drink beer? | 18:09 |
| dwd | Jaffa: ISTR the guy's involved heavily in HIP, which'd also be pretty cool on a Maemo device, and a whole heap more practical. | 18:10 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: 2 years of my life were, "why can't you get globus running on a z/900?" well, because java is frigging huge, the s390 JVM doesn't do JIT, and because when you take a box that isn't that powerful to begin with, and slice it 500 ways, you're going to get crap. "but why can't you do it?" | 18:10 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: all this cutting edge technology must be scary: more than 3 colours on screen at once, no 3270 or 5250 codes whizzing backwards and forwards... | 18:10 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: And I can boot a linux system w/out formatting the kernel to 80 characters and writing it to a virtual punch card stack! :P | 18:11 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: Actually I was the first person to run linux on 390 outside of IBM. But I don't miss that job at all. | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: neat | 18:12 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: so yeah. grids? Bad. :P | 18:12 |
| dwd | Jaffa: My grandmother once worked somewhere where the limiting factor on the speed of the machine was that if they ran it too fast, the friction caused the paper tape to catch fire. | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | So, where's the Hercules Maemo port :) | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | dwd: heh | 18:12 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: Oh god. :P | 18:12 |
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| lle | daniels: if I'd have to get rid of 500 of them | 18:13 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: whats worse is it could probably beat a s/370 or maybe even a G1 or 3 390 :P | 18:13 |
| kender | hi | 18:13 |
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| lle | daniels: but it's quite academic, since I don't | 18:13 |
| lle | maybe I missed your point, I'm quite tired | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: a mainframe in your pocket's got to be *slightly* cool | 18:14 |
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| dragorn | Jaffa: ever see the "laptop" 390? | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | Nope? | 18:14 |
| kender | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | 18:15 |
| kender | how is this? | 18:15 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: it was a luggable with a UPS | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | kender: they're deciding on 500 "special" and "deserving" people. When? We don't know. | 18:15 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: running OS/2, with a 390 daughterboard | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | Ouch | 18:15 |
| * dwd tries to look special. | 18:15 | |
| kender | Jaffa, but, who are those people? | 18:15 |
| jonek | *gulp* I think I maybe compiled phoneME for the 770 | 18:16 |
| Jaffa | All 167 people on #maemo. | 18:16 |
| Jaffa | jonek: really? Tarball? | 18:16 |
| dwd | kender: Nobody knows. Or if they do, nobody's telling. | 18:16 |
| kender | :S | 18:16 |
| Jaffa | People with a 'z' in their name? | 18:16 |
| Jaffa | Who knows... | 18:16 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: basically a luggable p370, weighed about 80 lbs, ran for about 30 minutes on battery, would cook your lap if you were foolish enough to risk crippling injury and crushed legs by holding it :P | 18:16 |
| kender | hehehe | 18:16 |
| WillySilly | Just dont give lennart one again this time :P | 18:16 |
| jonek | Jaffa: _maybe_ lets try the tests first | 18:17 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: hehe | 18:17 |
| dwd | jonek: Testing? Feh. That's what alphas are *for*... | 18:17 |
| kender | Jaffa, in maemo, there is any special "official" develop group or something? | 18:17 |
| keesj | 500 is a lot I would say , if you look at the different people on irc, garage and the mailing list | 18:17 |
| Jaffa | jonek: I'd be happy to help (although I'm probably more interested in Java SE, rather than phoneME - but then again, lots of apps for ME) | 18:17 |
| daniels | lle: surprising, really ;) | 18:17 |
| kender | keesj, yes, most of us, are in those all | 18:18 |
| dwd | keesj: Yeah, but as Jaffa has suggested, I'd expect them to offer the discounts to lots of prominent people for the marketing/developer-mindshare boost. | 18:18 |
| Jaffa | kender: Yes, in Nokia somewhere. I don't *think* anyone outside Nokia's got svn access to any open components yet | 18:18 |
| Jaffa | But perhaps not Mike Cane this time ;-) | 18:18 |
| lle | daniels: yeah, I'm shocked how skipping a nights sleep has this kind of effect. | 18:18 |
| kender | Jaffa, how many are them? | 18:18 |
| daniels | lle: still in the office? | 18:18 |
| Jaffa | kender: In Nokia, working on Maemo? No idea. | 18:18 |
| dwd | keesj: After all, they did more or less precisely this at IETF67. (Or was it 66? I forget now). | 18:19 |
| lle | daniels: no, home already, nothing to do, no laptop, pc or working user accounts | 18:19 |
| kender | Jaffa, what would you do? wait? do you think that we have any chance? | 18:19 |
| daniels | lle: oh, fair enough | 18:19 |
| lle | daniels: so a relatively nice day at the office | 18:19 |
| lle | daniels: not too hectic | 18:19 |
| daniels | lle: sounds better than trying to get (#@$ video to comply | 18:19 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: Damn you, now I'm mighty tempted to port herc over just to see how long it takes to boot a 390 image | 18:19 |
| Jaffa | kender: I've no idea. I can't afford a full price one, so waiting's easy for me :-/ | 18:20 |
| kender | hehe | 18:20 |
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| Jaffa | kender: we've also not been told when ppl should expect the email (Ari said "very soon"). A cynic could say they're hoping the really desperate developers will buy one at full price in the first week, so they'll wait ;-) | 18:20 |
| kender | Jaffa, well, I'm going to get one, this week if I can, but...if they say, that we can get one cheap...I don't know what to do | 18:22 |
| kender | hehe | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | kender: if you bought one full price, then got a discount code, you could always sell the first one and still have a very cheap N800 | 18:22 |
| Disconnect | 14 day returns policy... | 18:23 |
| kender | Jaffa, hehehe | 18:23 |
| kender | Disconnect, ? | 18:23 |
| Jaffa | Someone in Nokia support is quite clear on no OS 2007 for 770: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28112#post28112 | 18:23 |
| Disconnect | if you get a code just return the retail one. "I thought it was a phone." ;) | 18:24 |
| kender | Jaffa, any idea about how they are going to manage to know who is developer? | 18:24 |
| Jaffa | Tarot cards. | 18:24 |
| * Jaffa shrugs | 18:24 | |
| kender | hehehe | 18:24 |
| Jaffa | Sorry, no idea :) | 18:24 |
| daniels | Jaffa: just quietly, i wouldn't put too much weight on someone who starts every sentence with 'i expect' and 'i think', tbh. | 18:24 |
| daniels | kender: by seeing who's participated in the maemo community and done stuff? | 18:24 |
| dragorn | kender: Presumably looking at OSS projects and seeing who is doing maemo stuff already | 18:25 |
| Jaffa | daniels: :) His argument didn't particularly sound very well based in reality | 18:25 |
| kender | dragorn, but, for example, I haven't got the 770, I'm going to be a maemo developer (I wish)...do you think I can be considered as a maemo developer? | 18:25 |
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| * mgedmin found the file descriptor leakage source in fbreader | 18:26 | |
| daniels | Jaffa: (look at the last post on that page, f.e.) | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | daniels: indeed | 18:27 |
| dragorn | kender: I would have absolutely no idea. Considering no info has been posted about how they're going to select developers, I'd say trying to hack the system is pretty pointless at the moment. If you've already got an established OSS project your chances are probably higher than if you have nothing, but no-one is providing selection criteria. Relax. | 18:27 |
| Jaffa | Warning: holding breath can result in asphyxiation. | 18:27 |
| dragorn | (and by "hack the system" i mean "hack the selection process", not saying that hacking on the n800 is pointless. Incase anyone felt like misinterpreting me. :P ) | 18:28 |
| keesj | hmm http://www.nokia.com/n800 points to the n80 do I see an SQL query? | 18:28 |
| kender | dragorn, yeah, I'm agree, I was just asking | 18:28 |
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| kender | Jaffa, hehehe | 18:28 |
| dragorn | kender: I imagine if they make the criteria public it'll be well known as soon as they do | 18:28 |
| kender | nice :) | 18:28 |
| keesj | It really feels like it is very hard to do things right in open-source world, | 18:30 |
| keesj | (as company that is) | 18:30 |
| dragorn | There are a lot of high-strung people gunning for the slightest misstep, true. There are also a lot of companies that don't do a very good job, of course. | 18:31 |
| jtokash | I've got to go and I'm not sure if this info has already been mentioned on the channel. The CPU for the n800 has been added to the faq in the wiki. | 18:31 |
| jtokash | http://maemo.org/faq/faq.html#faq-N10119 | 18:31 |
| Jaffa | keesj: It's certainly harder if you've got hardware you want to sell alongside it. Software roadmaps become a lot harder to release as they reveal product plans. Which makes it hard to get a community working in the same direction | 18:31 |
| waite | A Co wanting to work in the OSS community needs to have OSS devels be the "interface" By that I mean the devels need to understand the reactionary nature of OSS. | 18:32 |
| jonek | *whee* Joneks770:~/phoneME# bin/cvm -cp testclasses.zip HelloWorld says: Hello world. !!! | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | jonek: fantastic! | 18:32 |
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| Jaffa | jonek: what's the startup time like from pressing enter to the msg appearing? | 18:32 |
| jonek | Jaffa: instantly | 18:33 |
| waite | The impt thing and the thing Nokia is doing a good job at is balancing biz needs with empowering the community. I think Nokia has been superior at that | 18:33 |
| Jaffa | jonek: Oooh, that's promising. | 18:33 |
| jonek | now I'll run more tests | 18:34 |
| Jaffa | jonek: you'll have to document the build process in the maemo wiki if nowhere else. | 18:34 |
| waite | You cannot take take take and expect it to work, but with sharing comes the barbs of unfiltered devel-devel conversation | 18:34 |
| kender | Jaffa, how the do with the 700? (the developer program I mean) | 18:35 |
| Jaffa | kender: I missed it (came to the party too late), but they asked for applications (it's still there on the bottom of maemo.org front page) | 18:35 |
| kender | thx | 18:35 |
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| jonek | ok there seem to be problems: the testsuite suspends itself :-/ | 18:39 |
| jonek | on linux-i386 the testsuite behaves differnt | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | Nice. | 18:40 |
| jonek | I think there was something in the phoneME forums... any phoneME experts here? | 18:41 |
| jonek | there have to be some of them arround here somewhere - Chris Plummer from Sun told me that there are some other guys working on a phoneME for the 770, too | 18:43 |
| dwd | jonek: Several people on the list have murmured about doing it. | 18:45 |
| robtaylor | jonek: know if anyon'es planning on adding some open source jazelle usage to phoneME? | 18:46 |
| dwd | jonek: If you've got something working at least in the x86 scratchbox target, I'd publicise that on the list and see who emerges from the woodwork. | 18:46 |
| jonek | dwd: I compiled outside of sbox using the sbox arm toolchain as jdk1.4.2 is needed for the build. | 18:49 |
| lle | jonek: good to hear that it worked out | 18:50 |
| dwd | jonek: Ah, okay... Do you get an armel binary out of it, then? | 18:50 |
| jonek | robtaylor: is an open source jazelle available?? | 18:50 |
| jonek | lle: yeah | 18:50 |
| jonek | dwd: yes - I ran the tests on a 770 :-) | 18:51 |
| Jaffa | jonek: so using x86 host's standard JDK and using /scratchbox/..../...armel.../... as the cross-compiler for phoneME's build system? | 18:51 |
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| jonek | Jaffa: exactly | 18:51 |
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| Jaffa | Neat. I'm impressed it built something which ran at all ;-) | 18:51 |
| dwd | jonek: Oh, yes, you said. Well, I'd definitely stick it somewhere, and post a URL and some instructions to the list, or at least brag about it there. Hell, if people can brag about porting a poker game, I'm sure you should brag about J2ME. | 18:52 |
| jonek | I think there is the most difficult part of the job still to be done: anything GUI related :) | 18:53 |
| robtaylor | jonek: no, it'd need a bit of RE to write one ;) | 18:54 |
| Jaffa | jonek: have you seen from poking around in the source if it uses Gtk as a native peer? | 18:55 |
| jonek | as I understood phoneME's available documentation so far there is currently only qt support in the tree | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | Ah. That could be "fun". | 18:55 |
| jonek | but the docs are _complex_ | 18:57 |
| jonek | and not complete | 18:57 |
| jonek | http://weblogs.java.net/blog/darryl_m/archive/2006/12/phoneme_advance_1.html <- see here | 19:01 |
| keesj | jonek, j2me gui can not be that hard. I have helped fixing bugs in me4se (j2me on j2se) and the code is really quite small | 19:03 |
| dwd | jonek: I like the "I won't go into detail about this [...]" | 19:04 |
| keesj | but that is cldc1.1/midp2. I don't know all the specs for j2me | 19:04 |
| jonek | keesj: ic... will have a look | 19:05 |
| jonek | have to leave soon for my karate training - more info tomorrow | 19:05 |
| keesj | that would really only need a plain canvas | 19:06 |
| jonek | Jaffa: my phoneme-advanced-mr1/src/share/personal/native/awt only contains a qt dir :-( but maybe MR2 will provide others | 19:08 |
| keesj | http://www.microemu.org/ also provides a java based gui. | 19:09 |
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| jonek | more to read on phoneME: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/mlam/ | 19:20 |
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| keesj | jonek, it's nice to see a bit of the internal of j2me | 19:27 |
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| dushko | What is phoneMe exactly? | 19:28 |
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| Jaffa | dushko: Java Mobile Edition - ie. mobile phone games, applications etc. | 19:29 |
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| dushko | Jaffa: That's not j2me? | 19:29 |
| Aleksandyr_ | PhoneMe ~= j2me | 19:31 |
| glass_ | yeah | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | dushko: Java 2 has been replaced with Java 5, so the '2' bit didn't make sense | 19:31 |
| dushko | Thanks | 19:32 |
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| Aleksandyr_ | PhoneME advanced is closer to what we think of when we think of a jre | 19:33 |
| Aleksandyr_ | PhoneME feature is a j2me distribution for a device, including midlet manager tools and such | 19:33 |
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| dballester | how can affect to develop/maintenance of n770 with the launch of the new n800 ? | 19:46 |
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| Jaffa | lo c0ffee | 20:01 |
| c0ffee | jaffa! | 20:01 |
| c0ffee | did i miss the developer program? | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | Hopefully not! | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | No-one's admitted to having one if we have. | 20:02 |
| c0ffee | that's really mean | 20:03 |
| bedboi | ehehe, everyone is talking about the developer program | 20:03 |
| c0ffee | no | 20:03 |
| c0ffee | nokia isnt | 20:03 |
| tko | I understood it's "don't call us, we'll call you" type | 20:04 |
| daniels | just relax. it'll happen when it happens. | 20:04 |
| daniels | corporations move at the speed of, well, corporations, sometimes. :) | 20:04 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 20:04 |
| dragorn | Bet everyone is sorry it got mentioned at all at this point :P | 20:04 |
| c0ffee | it's just that i might not get any sleep till then | 20:04 |
| * Jaffa 's relaxed - I've been working from home today and my wife's cooked a lovely spaghetti bolognese which we'll have with a bottle of wine :) | 20:04 | |
| c0ffee | which reminds me | 20:05 |
| c0ffee | i should get home quickly | 20:05 |
| c0ffee | bbl | 20:05 |
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| dragorn | Jaffa: $oldjob just replaced a 4-way z900 with a 1-way z9 and it went completely tits up. Figured you might get a laugh. :P | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: indeed :) | 20:05 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: "just" as in "today" :P | 20:06 |
| Jaffa | dragorn: betcha glad it's $oldjob | 20:06 |
| dragorn | Jaffa: Damn skippy | 20:06 |
| bedboi | Jaffa: my girlfriend is cooking some pasta with "sugo alle melanzane" :) | 20:07 |
| Jaffa | bedboi: I have absolutely no idea what that is, but it sounds nice ;-) | 20:08 |
| |tbb| | anyone got xchat sound package installed? | 20:08 |
| bedboi | Jaffa: pasta with tomato and aubergine | 20:09 |
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| bedboi | Jaffa: btw in italian sounds nicer | 20:09 |
| koen | zucini? | 20:11 |
| bedboi | no | 20:11 |
| bedboi | koen: it is not "zucchine" | 20:11 |
| bedboi | aubergine is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubergine | 20:12 |
| bedboi | ahaha there is a link to Melanzane alla parmigiana | 20:13 |
| koen | the purple one | 20:13 |
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| bedboi | one of my favourite dishes | 20:13 |
| bedboi | yep the purple one | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | ick | 20:13 |
| ||cw | eggplant is hard to make taste good | 20:14 |
| bedboi | no! | 20:14 |
| ||cw | I've some I liked, and lots I hated | 20:14 |
| bedboi | ||cw: i'm sure you don't know how to cook them :) | 20:14 |
| dragorn | olive oil, roast in oven, maybe some garlic. | 20:14 |
| ||cw | i definatly don't, and lots of other epople don't either | 20:14 |
| NickDe | dragorn: no talk about food at lunch time while at work | 20:15 |
| ||cw | a friends mom makes an excent eggplant lasanga though | 20:15 |
| bedboi | yep. | 20:15 |
| bedboi | lasagne are really good | 20:15 |
| bedboi | yesterday my gf cooked them | 20:15 |
| ||cw | speaking of food, it's lunch time | 20:16 |
| bedboi | btw there are some little tricks to make eggplant taste good | 20:16 |
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| bedboi | you have to cut the top and the bottom and put a lot of salt | 20:17 |
| bedboi | some water will pour out | 20:17 |
| bedboi | and the eggplant will taste less bitter | 20:17 |
| bedboi | it's a grandmother trick | 20:17 |
| ||cw | if you can link me to a good recipie I might try it, the wife likes even poorly cooked eggplant and she would love it if she could make it so the kids and I would eat it | 20:18 |
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| bedboi | ||cw: i can tell you one | 20:22 |
| bedboi | do you have tomato sauce? | 20:22 |
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| ntrs | I am having a problem with n800 | 20:23 |
| jaek | the 770 and n800 has a dualcore cpu? | 20:23 |
| bedboi | do you have one? | 20:23 |
| bedboi | jaek: they have a dsp onboard | 20:23 |
| bedboi | ah, don't know for n800 | 20:23 |
| jaek | bedboi, oh, so just sound+cpu on one chip? | 20:24 |
| koen | no, cpu + dsp | 20:24 |
| ntrs | everything was working fine yesterday. Now today I press the button to start it and it just keeps rebooting after the initial NOKIA screen. The blue bar on the bottom of the screen goes almost all the way to the right and then reboots. | 20:24 |
| jaek | koen, bedboi what kind of dsp? | 20:25 |
| jaek | ntrs, you get yours at compusa i presume? | 20:25 |
| ntrs | yes | 20:25 |
| * jaek is tempted to spend his money he saved up to buy a wii on the n800 | 20:25 | |
| daniels | ntrs: what did you do to it? :) | 20:25 |
| bedboi | wii? | 20:26 |
| jaek | nintendo wii? | 20:26 |
| ntrs | daniels, not muchm, just installed xterm, bash, ssh and such. I also changed the root and user passwords. | 20:26 |
| c0ffee | re | 20:27 |
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| NickDe | ntrs: you can still reflash that thing | 20:27 |
| NickDe | well | 20:27 |
| NickDe | if there were an OS2007 image out :P | 20:27 |
| ntrs | NickDe, how do I do that? | 20:27 |
| NickDe | before one messes with their itnernet tablet one should make sure to know how to reflash it.... | 20:28 |
| NickDe | there is documentation on maemo | 20:28 |
| Disconnect | NickDe: there is a windows flasher | 20:28 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: probably banh | 20:28 |
| Disconnect | er bash | 20:28 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: thats right which will auto install the latest | 20:29 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: I don't have any windows computers myself. its all gentoo over here | 20:29 |
| ntrs | now the screen just keeps turning on and off with the initial NOKIA scren. | 20:29 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: try enabling r&d mode | 20:29 |
| NickDe | yeah | 20:29 |
| NickDe | good point | 20:29 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, bash? Why would bash cause the problem? | 20:29 |
| bedboi | what's new in n800 ? | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | changing the user's default shell might cause a problem | 20:29 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, how do I enable r&d mode? | 20:29 |
| |tbb| | is it possible to import kismet gps data? | 20:30 |
| ntrs | hmm, it is probaby bash | 20:30 |
| |tbb| | in maemo-mapper | 20:30 |
| jaek | Maemo.org will be providing 500 devices at a price of 99 euros per device to selected open source developers. | 20:30 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: grab the flasher, check the wiki (fyi flasher-2.0 worked for r&d mode) | 20:30 |
| jaek | what do you have to do qualify for that? | 20:30 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, don't I have to have the original OS2007 in order to reflash? | 20:30 |
| Disconnect | jaek: /topic | 20:30 |
| ntrs | There is a flasher 3.0 | 20:31 |
| Disconnect | there wasn't one yesterday | 20:31 |
| bedboi | jaek: read the topic | 20:31 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, I am not sure where it is though, I am looking for it | 20:31 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, don't I have to have the original OS2007 in order to reflash? | 20:31 |
| ntrs | Where do I find OS2007? | 20:31 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: you aren't reflashing, you are enabling r&d mode | 20:32 |
| Disconnect | and read the topic | 20:32 |
| daniels | ntrs: if it just keeps turning off at the nokia screen, try plugging it in to charge | 20:32 |
| ntrs | daniels, It is plugged in and it still does that. | 20:33 |
| ntrs | Disconnect, the topic says nothing about the r&d mode. What will r&d mode let me do? | 20:33 |
| bedboi | what's n800 the antenna for? | 20:33 |
| Disconnect | stops it rebooting. read the wiki page on flasher | 20:33 |
| Disconnect | bedboi: no antenna | 20:33 |
| nomis | bedboi: which antenna? The stub on the side is the camera. | 20:34 |
| bedboi | ah | 20:34 |
| roope | :D | 20:34 |
| bedboi | so, mainly the only difference is the camera | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | it might stop the rebooting (if you disable the lifeguard reset flag), but I doubt it will fix the underlying problem | 20:35 |
| nomis | bedboi: + faster processor, + more ram, + 2 real SD slots, - cover | 20:35 |
| Disconnect | ...and new cpu, dual full size mem slots, 2x ram, 2x flash...... | 20:35 |
| bedboi | -cover? | 20:35 |
| bedboi | that's bad | 20:35 |
| jaek | how much faster is this cpu? | 20:35 |
| nomis | bedboi: yep. | 20:35 |
| |tbb| | in mhz 110 | 20:35 |
| Whiz | that missing cover could be the reason for me to not upgrade :/ | 20:35 |
| Disconnect | (and it won't take pics so.. camera is kinda a waste) | 20:36 |
| bedboi | how you prevent it from being destroyed | 20:36 |
| bedboi | ? | 20:36 |
| jaek | how much faster does the system feel? | 20:36 |
| Disconnect | bedboi: magic | 20:36 |
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| Tak | hmm | 20:36 |
| bedboi | Disconnect: stupid stuff | 20:36 |
| pahartik | bedboi: biggest difference is Bluetooth 2.0 | 20:36 |
| Tak | supports fullsize SD, but only up to 2gb... | 20:36 |
| tigert | Disconnect: well, I want to use it as webcam | 20:37 |
| tigert | its not in waste | 20:37 |
| roope | There's an external pouch with the device. | 20:37 |
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| nomis | tigert: do you know anything about the reasoning why they omitted the cover? | 20:38 |
| tigert | now | 20:38 |
| Disconnect | tigert: no apps for it was my point | 20:38 |
| tigert | everyone is worrying about the cover | 20:38 |
| tigert | I have never used a cover on my 770 | 20:38 |
| tigert | remember you poke the screen with a stick all day | 20:38 |
| bedboi | i always use a cover | 20:38 |
| Tak | ditto | 20:38 |
| tigert | its meant for poking | 20:38 |
| * Disconnect got a brando cover for the 770 | 20:38 | |
| koen | tigert: I use the cover to reset bluetooth all the time | 20:38 |
| tigert | the fabric pouch is good for pocket protection | 20:38 |
| bedboi | yep but i put it in my pocket | 20:38 |
| nomis | tigert: the cover enables me to throw the 770 in my bag. With all kinds of pointy stuff in it. | 20:38 |
| koen | tigert: I hope the n800's bluetooth is less buggy | 20:38 |
| Tak | the fabric pouch is a PITA | 20:38 |
| pahartik | bedboi: "biggest" as in "most significant" :) | 20:39 |
| bedboi | yep | 20:39 |
| tigert | nomis: put duct tape around the fabric pouch and it will be fine :) | 20:39 |
| bedboi | btw, i think that the cover is really important | 20:39 |
| tigert | koen: I hope so too | 20:39 |
| nomis | tigert: (and how do you put the N800 in standby mode, closing all the connections btw.?) | 20:39 |
| Whiz | tigert, I mostly carry my 770 in my backback with lots of small and pointy objects and i dont want to carry my backback as it contained something that will break if I breathe.. | 20:39 |
| tigert | bedboi: I am sure there will be some accessories with a cover | 20:39 |
| tigert | I carry my 770 in my butt pocket of jeans | 20:40 |
| bedboi | Whiz: yep, same thing here | 20:40 |
| tigert | works nicely | 20:40 |
| bedboi | yep | 20:40 |
| guerby | tigert, koen bluetooth works waaaaay better with 2006.2 | 20:40 |
| tigert | just dedicate a pocket for it | 20:40 |
| tigert | in your bag or jacket | 20:40 |
| guerby | just ordered a nokia 800 | 20:40 |
| guerby | eh eh | 20:40 |
| bedboi | tigert: it's not an excuse :) | 20:40 |
| tigert | the screen is not that fragile anyway | 20:40 |
| Whiz | My ass is on the same level than my knees.. so that if i sit down -> tablet would break :) | 20:40 |
| tigert | Whiz: when you sit down, you take it out to play wiht it anyway | 20:40 |
| jaek | nobody wants even a scratch on that lustrous screen | 20:40 |
| roope | There's this stand around the deviec. the id for a stand + cover would be really hard. | 20:41 |
| tigert | I threw my 770 cover away | 20:41 |
| Whiz | tigert, maybe I'm just weird as I dont play with my toys all the time :) | 20:41 |
| tigert | which sucks a bit | 20:41 |
| tigert | since its a company device | 20:41 |
| tigert | and I have no idea where the cover is :) | 20:41 |
| bedboi | i never used my ipaq naked | 20:41 |
| Whiz | :) | 20:41 |
| roope | hard as in fugly looking. | 20:41 |
| tigert | but I use my 770 a LOT | 20:41 |
| bedboi | and i enjoy the n770 cover | 20:41 |
| koen | guerby: 'better', not 'good' | 20:41 |
| bedboi | it's really cool | 20:41 |
| jaek | naked is nice, but i dont want anything touching my screen but the stylus | 20:42 |
| tigert | with greasy fingers, with a pen, with a pencil, with the stylus | 20:42 |
| tigert | with car keys sometimes | 20:42 |
| tigert | its not scratched | 20:42 |
| tigert | since the touchscreen is made for that | 20:42 |
| jaek | really... | 20:42 |
| ntrs | My N800's screen keeps flashing at the NOKIA screen. Can anyone help with either showing me how to do the r&d mode or how to reflash the device? | 20:42 |
| daniels | it would be a poor touchscreen if it wasn't | 20:42 |
| tigert | you are worrying too much | 20:42 |
| guerby | koen, worked perfectly with my bluetooth GPS at least (never tried GPRS though may be that's what you're complaining about) | 20:42 |
| tigert | of course, I would too if I had bought one :P | 20:42 |
| tigert | but I can assure, that after a good amount of abuse its not broken | 20:43 |
| akk | Impressive ... my Clie screen gets scratched even from using the stylus or fingernails. I'd never use car keys. | 20:43 |
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| jaek | well, i have a nintendo ds and the screen has tons of scratches from using the back of pens and fingernails | 20:43 |
| koen | guerby: it still locks up with maemo-mapper sometimes | 20:43 |
| tigert | akk: I dont use car keys a LOT to do that | 20:43 |
| koen | guerby: but yes, it was a lot worse with 2006.1 | 20:43 |
| tigert | but I mean | 20:43 |
| tigert | I dont worry much | 20:43 |
| tigert | its pretty tough stuff | 20:43 |
| guerby | koen, what kind of locks up? | 20:44 |
| tigert | sure it shows normal wear but nothing is visible when I use the device | 20:44 |
| jaek | i have a screen protector so that should help some more | 20:44 |
| tigert | and I think if I cleaned it up well, a lot of is just grease patterns | 20:44 |
| koen | guerby: bluetooth lockup | 20:44 |
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| koen | guerby: requiring a bluetooth reset | 20:44 |
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| nprice | Anyone know if the N800 is available everywhere yet? | 20:48 |
| SuperQ | tomorow supposedly | 20:48 |
| * pahartik has not noticed Bluetooth problem with Nokia 770, but sometimes Nokia 6310i (Bluetooth/GPRS) gets stuck and requires shutdown | 20:48 | |
| glass_ | a lot of bt phones need that occasionally... | 20:49 |
| glass_ | especially in heavy use | 20:49 |
| nprice | i know apple is making a huge product launch tomorrow | 20:49 |
| nprice | i don't know whether i should get an n800 if i can find one | 20:49 |
| nprice | or just wait | 20:49 |
| tigert | pahartik: a lot of times cycling bluetooth off and on in the phone helps | 20:49 |
| nprice | i need a new phone too lol | 20:49 |
| ntrs | Sorry to ask, but can anyone help? | 20:49 |
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| tigert | looks like symbian is buggy also with bluetooth | 20:49 |
| tigert | ntrs: the windows flasher tool should help? | 20:49 |
| glass_ | you can always wait a day.. but apple releasing anything that would be n800 area is unlikely | 20:49 |
| tigert | rumors are about iPhone | 20:50 |
| tigert | we'll see | 20:50 |
| tigert | if it is something geo-aware | 20:50 |
| ntrs | tigert, do you have a URL for the windows flasher, for n800 hopefully? | 20:50 |
| glass_ | iphone rumor is hardly new | 20:50 |
| nprice | yeah, i could use a cell phone, i fell asleep with mine in my pocket last night | 20:50 |
| nprice | and it is dead now | 20:50 |
| Guardian | re | 20:51 |
| jaek | i have a limited gprs connection with only a handful open ports... is there a way to automatically use some socks5 client when the bluetooth connection is established? | 20:51 |
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| akk | Is there any way to interrupt the app manager when it's stuck in dpkg? | 20:51 |
| |tbb| | anyone knows it is possible to import kismet gps data to maemo-mapper | 20:52 |
| tigert | ntrs: not sure. I remember someone mentioning it here | 20:52 |
| akk | It's been stuck for about 10 minutes now, and I'm wondering if I need to power off or something. | 20:52 |
| tigert | |tbb|: maemomapper has sqlite POI database | 20:52 |
| tigert | I guess you could generate it | 20:52 |
| lkraven | if anyone has both an n800 and n770 handy, i would be interested to know whether or not the screen is appreciably different, since my primary use for the 770 has been as an ebook reader | 20:52 |
| tigert | akk: hold the esc key (the "undo" arrow) | 20:52 |
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| lkraven | the 770 has a shallow view angle, which means when held close, parts of the black background would "shimmer" and it drove me nuts... the touch overlay is also visible as a color-shimmer-- and I would upgrade in a heartbeat if the 800 didn't share this issue | 20:53 |
| akk | tigert: No response (held it about 30 sec) | 20:54 |
| tigert | akk: hmm | 20:54 |
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| tigert | what is it doing? | 20:54 |
| tigert | installing or downloading? | 20:54 |
| akk | Installing. | 20:54 |
| tigert | scary | 20:54 |
| akk | yeah | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | but often harmless | 20:55 |
| tigert | try tapping the x on the corner? | 20:55 |
| |tbb| | tigert any idea how? | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | akk: installing apps sometimes took ages on my 770 | 20:55 |
| tigert | |tbb|: search google for maemo mapper POI | 20:55 |
| Tak | 30s isn't *that* long ime | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | I left it alone, and it finished successfully | 20:55 |
| tigert | the patch writer had a website about the format | 20:55 |
| Tak | I agree with mgedmin | 20:55 |
| akk | No response. It doesn't respond to tapping on menu icons over on the left, either. | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | writes to flash appear to be *very* cpu intensive | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | so intensive that it doesn't even react to the power button | 20:55 |
| Tak | has anybody tried xmame, fceu, or vba on n800 yet? | 20:55 |
| akk | mgedmin: I think this is a pretty small app, and the progress bar hasn't moved in 10-15 min. | 20:55 |
| tigert | |tbb|: I wonder if this is the patch that is integrated: | 20:56 |
| akk | No response to the x either | 20:56 |
| tigert | but anyway: http://eko.one.pl/index.php?page=Nokia770_software#Details | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | akk: what's the app? | 20:56 |
| nprice | is hildon using xorg or something else? | 20:56 |
| akk | mgedmin: the sudoku game that's in the app repository ... hold on, looking for the link | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | never tried it | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | I used to experience long delays when upgrading fbreader, though | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | the .deb is like half a meg | 20:57 |
| Tak | heh, the xmame deb is like 10M | 20:57 |
| akk | fbreader did take a long time to install | 20:57 |
| akk | but nothing like this, and the progress indicator moved, iirc | 20:57 |
| tigert | akk: it shouldnt take this long | 20:57 |
| tigert | definitely | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | the strange thing is that sometimes it is fine, while sometimes it gets stuck with the progress bar not moving for several minutes | 20:58 |
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| mgedmin | although 15 minutes seems excessive | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | can you ssh into it? | 20:58 |
| tigert | please ask about this on the devel list | 20:58 |
| florian_kc | bbl | 20:58 |
| akk | mgedmin: I haven't managed to install ssh yet. | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | I once ran vmstat from an ssh session during such an installer freeze | 20:59 |
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| mgedmin | it showed 0 in all CPU columns (user/system/idle/iowait), but many thousands of interrupts per second | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | err, the idle column wasn't 0 of course | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | I was just surprised that the cpu registered as idle rather than iowait while it was writing to flash | 21:01 |
| c0ffee | let's pretend i'll get a developer device and install the new scratchbox then | 21:01 |
| Tak | hehehe | 21:02 |
| MDK | hah, ces speech starts | 21:02 |
| MDK | works in gxine | 21:02 |
| Tak | I'd like to pretend that too... | 21:02 |
| ferulo | rtsp://a1127.l764137741.c7641.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/1127/7641/v0001/reflector:37741 | 21:02 |
| akk | Oh, wow! it woke up. | 21:02 |
| MDK | ferulo: mms:// in front if for xine | 21:03 |
| akk | Actually, looks like it rebooted. No apps are running. | 21:03 |
| tigert | akk: ! | 21:03 |
| tigert | ok | 21:03 |
| |tbb| | tigert was this url 4 me | 21:03 |
| tigert | |tbb|: affirm | 21:03 |
| tigert | akk: lifeguard watchdog reset it seems | 21:03 |
| ferulo | MDK: dude, I'm using N800 ! :) | 21:03 |
| MDK | ferulo: it works there? | 21:03 |
| akk | That app doesn't show up in "Show installed apps" (no surprise) | 21:04 |
| * MDK is totally astonished | 21:04 | |
| tigert | Could not read packet header: Success | 21:05 |
| tigert | says totem | 21:05 |
| tigert | yay for error messages | 21:05 |
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| MDK | tigert: forget totem | 21:05 |
| MDK | it's gstreamer ;) | 21:05 |
| tigert | did already | 21:05 |
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| k-s | anyone worked with playbin in new hw? | 21:06 |
| tigert | mplayer shows colorful gray garbage | 21:07 |
| akk | What's the recommended ssh? openssh or dropbear? | 21:07 |
| tigert | apt-get install ssh | 21:08 |
| roope | http://www.rawcoms.com/content/corporate/nokia/070108/en/run/mpv500/index.html here's btw live nokia ces webcast, just starting. | 21:08 |
| MDK | yeah, just starting | 21:08 |
| akk | tigert: It doesn't show up in application manager, of course, so I'm installing everything by navigating to the .debs on the app catalog web page. | 21:09 |
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| pahartik | roope: URL to stream? | 21:09 |
| MDK | pahartik: rtsp://a1127.l764137741.c7641.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/1127/7641/v0001/reflector:37741 | 21:10 |
| MDK | pahartik: or mms:// in front | 21:10 |
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| roope | it's probably windows-only stuff. | 21:10 |
| tigert | mplayer works in ubuntu | 21:11 |
| tigert | its wmv | 21:11 |
| * tigert groans at the accent | 21:11 | |
| Jaffa | rtsp works in Real Player in Mac OS X | 21:11 |
| roope | opk is no steve jobs. :) | 21:11 |
| pahartik | MDK: VLC does not seem to like either... oh well | 21:11 |
| tigert | roope: no shit :) | 21:11 |
| MDK | heh | 21:12 |
| Jaffa | Talking of which, MacWorld keynote tomorrow, IIRC? | 21:12 |
| MDK | gotta love the finnish accent | 21:12 |
| * Jaffa can't help but think of the Muppets, sorry ;-) | 21:12 | |
| akk | Okay, I'll go with openssh since nobody has an opinion | 21:12 |
| MDK | heh | 21:13 |
| ssvb | tigert: sorry, I probably missed part of the discussion, did you try to run mplayer on N800? | 21:13 |
| * mgedmin never used dropbear and is quite happy with openssh | 21:13 | |
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| tigert | ssvb: no | 21:14 |
| |tbb| | tigert the link doesnt work | 21:15 |
| lkraven | tiger, how's the screen on that N800? Is it pretty much the same as the 770? | 21:15 |
| MDK | lkraven: it's way better quality | 21:15 |
| timeless | tigert: so, i just bricked two devices | 21:15 |
| MDK | lkraven: same res, but much richer colours/brighter | 21:15 |
| Aleksandyr|work | MDK: does it still have the rainbow effect? | 21:15 |
| * timeless had a very productive day | 21:15 | |
| MDK | Aleksandyr|work: no | 21:15 |
| *** Aleksandyr|work is now known as Aleksandyr| | 21:16 | |
| Aleksandyr| | damn. | 21:16 |
| tigert | |tbb|: hmm | 21:16 |
| MDK | Aleksandyr|work: if by "rainbow" you call those little "dots" in rainbow colors you can see when looking closely | 21:16 |
| akk | tigert: Aha -- I didn't know about "red pill mode". Now I have an ssh package (though still no xterm or osso-xterm) | 21:16 |
| tigert | |tbb|: http://eko.one.pl/index.php?page=Nokia770_software < this doesnt work? | 21:16 |
| * timeless can't live w/o redpill | 21:16 | |
| ssvb | tigert, ok, I see, then I will wait for some N800 owner willing to test mplayer to show up :) | 21:16 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: old one is nasty evil colors | 21:17 |
| * Tak is in the same boat | 21:17 | |
| Disconnect | at least playing the n90 clip it came with | 21:18 |
| lkraven | sweet, i'll go buy one today | 21:18 |
| lkraven | i usually use it as an ebook reader | 21:18 |
| Disconnect | looks like it is trying, but not well | 21:18 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: I was told that pixel doubling does not work on N800, can you try some 640x480 video (so that pixel doubling will not be used)? | 21:18 |
| pahartik | MDK: and "Video resolution not supported" from Video Player of Maemo 2.1 | 21:19 |
| Disconnect | got one in particular? haven't got anything much here | 21:19 |
| Tak | argh @ no pixel doubling | 21:19 |
| Aleksandyr| | was pixel doubling ever a legitimate feature, or was it always an undocumented? | 21:20 |
| Aleksandyr| | I seem to recall it changing status at one point | 21:21 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: you can use mencoder to transcode video to get some clip for testing | 21:21 |
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| ntrs | Ok, I think I am getting somewhere. | 21:21 |
| ntrs | Using the official N800 flasher from nokia for windows | 21:21 |
| ntrs | upgrading now to 2007SE_2.2006.51-6 | 21:22 |
| NickDe | excellent | 21:23 |
| pahartik | dwd: oh, I tried to reply ~5 hours ago but did not remember that FreeNode blocks private messages... | 21:23 |
| mgedmin | is the windows flasher a single huge .exe file | 21:24 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: just run 'mencoder -vo scale=640:480 input.avi -o output.avi', mencoder should be available in most linux distributions, also you can download windows version from http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html | 21:24 |
| mgedmin | or is the firmware in a separate .bin file? | 21:24 |
| NickDe | Disconnect: I can say I am encoding a movie to 400x240 at 256kb/s video 128 kb/s audio and it plays great | 21:24 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: oops, use '-vf' instead of '-vo' | 21:25 |
| greentux | somebody checked usb host mode and powered? | 21:26 |
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| Disconnect | testing now | 21:27 |
| ntrs | The upgrade finished ok, but after a reboot the device still does not work properly. | 21:27 |
| dwd | pahartik: Oh, does it? | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | dwd: yes, if you're not registered with nickserv | 21:27 |
| ntrs | After I press the ON button, I see the NOKIA screen for about two-three seconds then it turns itself off. | 21:27 |
| NickDe | ntrs: you removed the mattery to right? | 21:27 |
| NickDe | *battery | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | ntrs: could be an empty battery | 21:28 |
| ntrs | Yes, I tried removing the battery too | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | plug in a charger | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | or maybe you keep holding the ON button | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | if you do not release it, it will turn on and then turn off after a few more seconds | 21:29 |
| ntrs | Plugged in the charger, just turns off and on, off and on, off and on | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | but I think that's more like 10 more seconds | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | oh, wow :( | 21:29 |
| pahartik | mgedmin: I am registered, but nickserv disagrees with my notes about password... | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | pahartik: imposter! :) | 21:29 |
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| Disconnect | 640x480 still fubar | 21:30 |
| Disconnect | colors are trashed and its about half-size | 21:30 |
| pahartik | mgedmin: damn that | 21:30 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: ok, thanks, one more test, you can run mplayer with '-vo sdl' it should at least work | 21:30 |
| ntrs | Any ideas about my problem? The device no longer starts? I even did a complete reflash with the official update from NOKIA. | 21:31 |
| Tak | xv is supposed to work too | 21:31 |
| tigert | ntrs: battery empty? | 21:31 |
| ssvb | Tak: yes, I know, I just wanted to get some more details about current mplayer state on N800 :) | 21:32 |
| Disconnect | no xv | 21:32 |
| Tak | hehe | 21:32 |
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| jon1012 | hello everybody | 21:32 |
| ntrs | tigert, no, If I keep the home button pressed and turn it on, it stays on and I can successfully do the flash upgrade. | 21:32 |
| jon1012 | bora won't be backported to 770 ? :( | 21:32 |
| Disconnect | sdl works but slow (as expected) | 21:32 |
| NickDe | ntrs: no idea what you did man but thats screwed up | 21:32 |
| tigert | ntrs: tried removing battery for a bit? | 21:33 |
| NickDe | he did | 21:33 |
| Disconnect | jon1012: read the topic | 21:33 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: mplayer was compiled without xv support as there was no libxv preinstalled on 770 by default and it did not work | 21:33 |
| ntrs | tigert, yes, I did | 21:33 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: r&d mode on? | 21:33 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: yah | 21:33 |
| jon1012 | Disconnect: that's why I said that | 21:33 |
| Disconnect | figured | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | ntrs: maybe you put it back wrong? | 21:33 |
| ntrs | Isn't the reflash supposed to fix whatever I did? | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | the 770 will not from the charger with the battery taken out | 21:33 |
| ntrs | The device is now on on bettery power being reflashed again | 21:34 |
| jon1012 | so 770 updates will continue but only critical flaws etc... no IT2007 for 770 ? :( | 21:34 |
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| Tak | I didn't see anywhere it said "only critical flaws" | 21:35 |
| jon1012 | well, no backport of it2007 planned means it2006 with some fixes only | 21:35 |
| ntrs | I just reflashed again to the latest version | 21:35 |
| Disconnect | jon1012: how do you figure? | 21:36 |
| jon1012 | hey, that's what the title is saying | 21:36 |
| jon1012 | the channel's topic | 21:36 |
| Disconnect | no, thats not.. thats what you are assuming. (consider symbian. s90 doesn't mean s60 is dead. or even slowed down.) | 21:37 |
| ntrs | same problem, with charger on, keeps turning on and off. With battery power only, it just turns off after a couple of seconds on the NOKIA screen. | 21:37 |
| jon1012 | so, it2007 will be backported for 770 ? | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | jon1012: not necessarily; you can backport useful features (e.g. the alarm framework) and ignore useless features (no webcam on the 770) | 21:37 |
| Disconnect | lets take it apart piece by piece. "770 updates will continue." .. thought that was clear, but i guess not. | 21:38 |
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| Disconnect | "but bora is not backported" ... is not. present tense. (and given the cpu speeds, you probably don't want it anyway..) | 21:39 |
| tko | someone said something about macworld? http://www.43folders.com/2007/01/08/macworld-drinking-game-2007/ :) | 21:39 |
| ntrs | besides a reflash, does anyone know of anything else I could try to fix this problem? | 21:39 |
| Tak | what I got out of it is: updates will continue to be released for 770, but bora is a separate branch that will be targeted to n800 and will not be backported, so that we don't have to maintain two sets of hardware speed hacks | 21:40 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: r&d mode | 21:40 |
| ntrs | How do I turn r&d on? | 21:40 |
| ntrs | I have the windows flasher from nokia | 21:40 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: need a linux/mac box. | 21:40 |
| Disconnect | ntrs: uses the flasher app (2 or 3) | 21:41 |
| ntrs | I have a mac box | 21:41 |
| ntrs | (2 or 3)? | 21:41 |
| Disconnect | get the osx commandline flasher | 21:41 |
| Disconnect | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Flasher_tool_usage has info on r&d mode | 21:42 |
| ntrs | Ok,what do I do after I get r&d mode going? | 21:42 |
| NickDe | ntrs: turn it on | 21:43 |
| Disconnect | boot | 21:43 |
| NickDe | and see what happens? | 21:43 |
| ntrs | The problem is it doesn't boot It just turns off. | 21:44 |
| ntrs | Ok, I will try that now | 21:44 |
| * Disconnect will be back later. my 800 works and i don't feel like arguing anymore before lunch | 21:44 | |
| Tak | good idea, it'll give you indigestion | 21:45 |
| ntrs | I am sorry guys, I am just trying to get this thing fixed, which broke for apparently no reason. | 21:46 |
| pahartik | dwd: I tried to create configuration on ACAP server but it did not work... Polymer and Telomer just hang | 21:46 |
| koen | r&d doesn't buy you much, you want to disable the lifeguard reset | 21:47 |
| koen | (haven't read backlog) | 21:47 |
| ntrs | koen, how do i disable the lifeguard reset? | 21:47 |
| koen | using the flasher tool | 21:48 |
| dwd | pahartik: Oh. That really ought to work. | 21:48 |
| koen | flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 21:48 |
| ntrs | Ok, let me try that. | 21:49 |
| ntrs | Oh, there is no flasher for MAC on Intel? only PPC? | 21:49 |
| jon1012 | Disconnect: do you know i there is a way to get the current n800 graphic theme on the 770 ? | 21:49 |
| jon1012 | s/i /if/ | 21:49 |
| jon1012 | lol | 21:49 |
| dwd | pahartik: Ah. Roaming configurations mean that an IMAP server of "localhost" isn't a good idea. :-) | 21:51 |
| Jaffa | jon1012: theoretically, but there have been theme changes in post-OS 2006 releases (e.g. Sardine and Herring) which are presumably in OS 2007, so it won't *exactly* just be a case of copying stuff from one device to another | 21:51 |
| koen | ntrs: no idea, I only used flasher on my old powerbook, not on my macbookpro | 21:51 |
| jon1012 | Jaffa: and thoses changes will be back-ported ? | 21:52 |
| daniels | ssvb: dude, leave pixel doubling alone, just use xv | 21:52 |
| Disconnect | jon1012: sure, you gonna do it..? | 21:52 |
| jon1012 | Disconnect: I don't have sufficiant knownledge of those systems to do it | 21:53 |
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| jon1012 | Disconnect: my knowledge domain is more web (xhtml/css/javascript) and python devel | 21:53 |
| tigert | jon1012: the theme is almost compatible, some stuff , mostly controlpanel will be borked | 21:54 |
| jon1012 | tigert: ok, thx | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | jon1012: well, you can get those changes on your 770 by running Sardine now; or you just wait for more N800s to get into circulation and see if a similar theme is created for the 770, *or* you hope that OS 2007 is released for the 770. | 21:54 |
| tigert | and the top panel size has increased on N800 | 21:54 |
| ssvb | daniels: sure I will :) | 21:54 |
| tigert | you can see the differences in hildon-theme-tools in sardine | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | jon1012: ah, there you go - tigert's the expert :) | 21:54 |
| daniels | haha, web 2.0. bingo! | 21:55 |
| daniels | he hsan't said 'synergy' yet, though. | 21:55 |
| ntrs | koen, it appears the macosx version works on Intel too | 21:55 |
| NickDe | I am a son of the web.09 days... good old days | 21:55 |
| NickDe | I miss VRML... | 21:55 |
| NickDe | I want to revive it so I can say it stinks all over again :P | 21:55 |
| roope | podcasting. | 21:55 |
| Jaffa | NickDe: it's remarkable how much like VRML stuff Second Life looks :) | 21:55 |
| dwd | NickDe: Did you ever get a VRML browser to work? | 21:55 |
| NickDe | mashups | 21:55 |
| koen | ntrs: that's good to know, thanks | 21:55 |
| NickDe | dwd: never | 21:56 |
| NickDe | back in 1996 | 21:56 |
| NickDe | never | 21:56 |
| dwd | NickDe: Me neither. | 21:56 |
| dwd | NickDe: I used to try every couple of months, in the vain hope of seeing what all the hype was about. | 21:56 |
| * Jaffa did on a cover CD once, but had no Internet access so didn't do a lot with it :-/ | 21:56 | |
| NickDe | dwd: want to know what the big secret about VRML was? | 21:56 |
| NickDe | if you held down control-shift-s you would see a message that said "we will be filing for chapter 11 in 2006... - your pals at SGI" | 21:57 |
| jon1012 | tigert: thx :) | 21:57 |
| dwd | NickDe: Heh. | 21:57 |
| jon1012 | tigert: so, let's hope that it2007 is released for the 770 | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | ooh, vrml was fun at the university | 21:58 |
| roope | I remember Alphaworld. | 21:58 |
| mgedmin | never found a good linux vrml viewer, though | 21:58 |
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| mgedmin | when you start scripting it with javascript, vrml becomes a fun toy | 21:59 |
| mgedmin | ... for 15 minutes | 21:59 |
| NickDe | mgedmin: I have to admit I didn't start screwing with Linux until atleast 1998 | 21:59 |
| ntrs | koen, so do I just use these options: --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 21:59 |
| mgedmin | NickDe: I didn't start screwing with VRML until 2001 or so :) | 21:59 |
| |tbb| | i dont get it how to import kismet gps data into m-mapper | 22:00 |
| koen | ntrs: yes, that should do it | 22:00 |
| |tbb| | any1 done that be4 | 22:00 |
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| ntrs | koen, no need for --enable-rd-mode? | 22:00 |
| _matthias_ | evening | 22:01 |
| Jaffa | lo _matthias_ | 22:01 |
| koen | ntrs: not as far as I know | 22:01 |
| ntrs | ok | 22:01 |
| Jaffa | Ah, tidying toys duty calls. | 22:01 |
| NickDe | mgedmin: ah | 22:01 |
| NickDe | (hah | 22:01 |
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| * _matthias_ was the stupiedest today | 22:02 | |
| _matthias_ | i was in an open book exam without book | 22:02 |
| Disconnect | _matthias_: lol | 22:02 |
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| * Disconnect was stupider yesterday | 22:03 | |
| Disconnect | stupid non-debian scratchbox directions.. don't tar xzf -C / the rootstrap (doh) | 22:03 |
| _matthias_ | heh | 22:04 |
| Disconnect | blew up my mythtv box | 22:04 |
| Disconnect | deciding if i want to fix it or rebuild it | 22:04 |
| _matthias_ | yeah friend of mine managed to delete /etc on his mythtv box lately ;) | 22:04 |
| ntrs | koen, wow with this flag the n800 is booting up ok now. Now, how do I find out what the real problem is so that I can remove the flag and still be able to boot? | 22:05 |
| Disconnect | /bin/ls | 22:05 |
| Disconnect | /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | I once did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda1 on a work server | 22:05 |
| Disconnect | not so good. | 22:05 |
| koen | ntrs: iirc there was some file in /proc, but I'm not sure | 22:05 |
| AaronL2 | ntrs: you can try dmesg, perhaps examining files in /var/logs | 22:05 |
| Disconnect | (busybox was installed fortunately so can probably just fix it) | 22:06 |
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| ntrs | koen, no, but do you think that it will not boot again if I remove the flag? | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | koen: /proc/bootreason and /var/lib/dsme/stats/* | 22:06 |
| koen | mgedmin: thanks | 22:07 |
| koen | ntrs: no idea | 22:07 |
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| Aleksandyr| | AbiWord 2.4.6 + N800 news + #maemo + ITT.com = no work getting done today :) | 22:25 |
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| etrunko | Aleksandyr|: do you mean Abiword for maemo? | 22:28 |
| qgil | pahartik: thanks for the Sonera tip (hours later, but I read it) :) | 22:29 |
| Jaffa | Hang on... just noticed this on maemo.org about features of Maemo 3.0: "New libraries to provide access to terminal features: Camera, Hildon input methods, Address book, UPNP, Alarms, GPS, and more ..." | 22:29 |
| Jaffa | There's scope for a built-in GPS on the N800? | 22:29 |
| Juhaz | maybe it's just some library helping use of external one | 22:30 |
| Aleksandyr| | etrunko: Yep. | 22:30 |
| etrunko | Aleksandyr|: where did you get it? | 22:30 |
| etrunko | :) | 22:30 |
| Aleksandyr| | etrunko: I managed to get 2.4.6 compiled --- it's a little bit faster | 22:30 |
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| etrunko | Aleksandyr|: i was talking to the abiword guys last week about it | 22:30 |
| Aleksandyr| | etrunko: but it still won't handle my resume =/ | 22:30 |
| etrunko | Aleksandyr|: cool | 22:30 |
| etrunko | they've released some packages, but there is a bug crashing it | 22:31 |
| Jaffa | Juhaz: that's what I thought, but it specifically says "terminal features" (I suspect it's just a typo/wrong, though) | 22:31 |
| etrunko | so they didn't release it to public | 22:31 |
| Aleksandyr| | hrm. I haven't seen the packages, but it seems quite stable except for one glaring issue | 22:31 |
| Aleksandyr| | it's only partially hildonized, so it attempts some nasty casts if you try to, say, print preview | 22:31 |
| Aleksandyr| | which lead to a hard crash. | 22:31 |
| etrunko | Aleksandyr: ok | 22:32 |
| *** Disconnect changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | http://www.nokiausa.com/N800 | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported" | 22:32 | |
| pahartik | qgil: you are welcome | 22:32 |
| Disconnect | new image available for the rest of us now :) | 22:32 |
| etrunko | Aleksandyr|: can you receive pvt messages? | 22:32 |
| qgil | we will need a wiki page to write the long topic and then link here :) | 22:32 |
| Aleksandyr| | etrunko: give me a second to figure out nickserv | 22:33 |
| c0ffee | did i mention that scratchbox is one big mess | 22:33 |
| etrunko | c0ffee: +1 | 22:33 |
| etrunko | we've been calling it scarebox | 22:34 |
| Disconnect | heh | 22:34 |
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| Disconnect | c0ffee: check my earlier comments about scratchbox mistakes | 22:34 |
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| *** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 | 770 updates will continue but Bora is not backported" | 22:36 | |
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| Aleksandyr | note to self: read an irssi manual sometime. | 22:37 |
| Disconnect | grrrrrrr | 22:37 |
| etrunko | :P | 22:37 |
| kender | hello | 22:37 |
| Disconnect | stupid non-static flasher-3.0 | 22:37 |
| cduv | has someone tried the new N800? | 22:37 |
| Jaffa | Some have them. | 22:38 |
| cduv | how is the new opera and Flash player? | 22:38 |
| kender | Disconnect, the flasher isn't open source? | 22:38 |
| Disconnect | anyone at nokia.com wanna build a static ver for those of us on amd64? | 22:38 |
| mgedmin | kender: no it isn't | 22:38 |
| Disconnect | kender: nope | 22:38 |
| kender | :S | 22:38 |
| kender | does anybody know why? | 22:39 |
| Disconnect | (or anyone that doesn't have exactly the same versions as the devs) | 22:39 |
| Tak | a lot of things aren't open that it would make sense for them to be (wrt n(77|80)0) | 22:39 |
| kender | Opera for example? | 22:40 |
| kender | hehe | 22:40 |
| kender | mm.. | 22:40 |
| Tak | well, that's not nokia's problem | 22:40 |
| ferulo | and flash is Adobe code | 22:40 |
| kender | what more? | 22:40 |
| Tak | but, say, the flasher utility... | 22:40 |
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| kender | maybe Skype in the future? | 22:42 |
| kender | hehe | 22:42 |
| * Disconnect ponders flashing w/ flasher-20 | 22:42 | |
| Tak | I'm more thinking of apps and libraries specific to the 770 (and now 800) that are lacking in features and/or bugfixes | 22:43 |
| Disconnect | cool looks like that worked | 22:44 |
| Disconnect | erm | 22:45 |
| Disconnect | maybe not. kb went ancient-mac-style b&w | 22:45 |
| ferenc | /quit: good night | 22:45 |
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| Disconnect | cool auto-restore | 22:46 |
| daniels | fwiw, the flasher isn't open source because ti won't let it be released, as it contains protocol details | 22:54 |
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| Disconnect | ..so if we sniff and publish the proto we can get it opened? ;) | 22:55 |
| glass_ | then you could write your own flasher.. | 22:55 |
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| Disconnect | glass_: easier to just abuse libusb (since 3.0 is dynamic) | 23:02 |
| Disconnect | ltrace and gdb | 23:02 |
| c0ffee | usbsniff | 23:04 |
| c0ffee | should be easier to disassemble the flasher than finding something useful from the usb logs imho | 23:06 |
| Disconnect | is the keyboard open yet? want dvorak (switching back and forth is giving me headaches, since I just started learning it) | 23:06 |
| c0ffee | but i also think it's more important to get open drivers for the wireless modules | 23:06 |
| Disconnect | agreed | 23:07 |
| c0ffee | send a mail whining about scratchbox | 23:07 |
| kender | the wifi of the n800 is the same of the 770? | 23:07 |
| Disconnect | anyone try kismet on 800? | 23:07 |
| kender | monitor mode? | 23:07 |
| kender | hehe | 23:07 |
| kender | aircrack? reinyect? | 23:08 |
| Aleksandyr | c0ffee: sniffing the usb logs is legal, disassembling the flasher is less so, IIRC | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | nah | 23:08 |
| kender | disassembling the flasher is less so.... I think it's legal | 23:08 |
| NickDe | kender: yes it is | 23:08 |
| NickDe | wifi on n800 is same as 770 | 23:08 |
| c0ffee | it's legal | 23:08 |
| NickDe | it would seem | 23:08 |
| kender | NickDe, nice | 23:08 |
| NickDe | same chip | 23:08 |
| NickDe | also I am sure Kismet would work just fine | 23:08 |
| Disconnect | Aleksandyr: if i disassemble the flasher i can't write the new one | 23:08 |
| kender | yep | 23:08 |
| NickDe | or it would take Dragorn a day to polish for the n800 if it doesnt run already | 23:08 |
| kender | :) | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | objdump -D --demangle flasher-3.0 | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | voila | 23:09 |
| Aleksandyr | Disconnect: the whole cleanroom-implementation thing that I vaguely remember from the early days of personal computing :) | 23:09 |
| trenka | is there NNTP client for n800 ? | 23:09 |
| c0ffee | ida has problems with the plt | 23:09 |
| bstock | so should i bother to upgrade 770 from 2006.1 to 2006.2 or wait to see if something new will be released? | 23:09 |
| NickDe | trenka: PAN was ported to the 770 | 23:09 |
| Aleksandyr | trenka: pan was available for the 770 | 23:09 |
| trenka | tnx | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | trenka: Sylpheed *might* work, but I've never tried NNTP and I dunno if it'll work on the N800 (the porting guide suggests everything needs a recompile, but comments from other users suggests that might be wrong(?)) | 23:10 |
| Aleksandyr | bstock: next upgrade (2.3) will be out at the end of the month, supposedly | 23:10 |
| c0ffee | daniels, what about a statement like "don't bother to check for mails from developer device program before xxth of january"? :) | 23:10 |
| bstock | hmm so i guess waiting would be smart... thanks | 23:10 |
| koen | xx of march | 23:10 |
| koen | xxx of 2007 | 23:10 |
| Disconnect | backup/restore loses bt pairings | 23:11 |
| Aleksandyr | at this point I'd take a stardate. | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Or a phase of the moon | 23:11 |
| Tak | and "if you haven't received one by xxth of june, you're not going to" | 23:11 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: can you test this experimental n800 mplayer package? http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.n800.experimental_armel.deb | 23:11 |
| Aleksandyr | at no point did they say all 500 would go out at the same time, too: perhaps it will be staggered? | 23:11 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: couple mins | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: good point | 23:12 |
| dragorn | Disconnect: built it, and if it doesn't work, get tcpdump running, throw the card in rfmon, and get me dumps, and I'll look. If you do that by tomorrow, any fixes will make it into the next stable kismet release | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | kismet works | 23:12 |
| dragorn | Disconnect: if you don't, then it'll go into svn | 23:12 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: counterpoint being that it would be a really bad idea, come to think of it | 23:12 |
| dragorn | awesome. good to know. | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | 770 ver ran out of the box | 23:12 |
| daniels | c0ffee: honestly, dude, i don't know who even does it, let alone when it'll be done | 23:12 |
| kender | Disconnect, nice! | 23:12 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: better run it from xterm or ssh and watch for any error message, as I'm not sure whether it will work :) | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | found correct nets | 23:12 |
| daniels | c0ffee: polling your mail won't make it come any faster though, so just relax, and be pleasantly surprised when it arrives | 23:13 |
| roope | http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/10_n800_lowres.jpg What an image. :) Note the Linux Kernel boko in the background. | 23:13 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: ok, your turn :) | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: not if you think that the codes might be time limited: then they can pass them on to others without it appearing that people didn't take them up on the offer. Similarly that's a reason for not giving a "final date for receiving offers is ..." | 23:13 |
| roope | Two devices, maemo.org open, post-it -notes. | 23:13 |
| daniels | roope: yeah, that's the press image. bizzare, isn't it? | 23:13 |
| daniels | especially because the 'LINUX KERNEL' bit looks gimped in. | 23:13 |
| roope | And guy right next to his own desktop computer. Errh. | 23:13 |
| roope | But he's a developer, right. He's even got a joystick to prove it. | 23:14 |
| Disconnect | cool it came ot of monitor mode cleanly | 23:14 |
| daniels | i think the intersection of people who run xp on their desktop and people with linux kernel books ... isn't very popular. | 23:14 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: fewer devices handed out means fewer applications developed for the N800 in the short term. Theoretically the goal of the subsidy is to ensure a strong N800 software library proximate to the release | 23:14 |
| majix | roope: you can tell they guy is hardcore, 'cause he's got two devices ;) | 23:14 |
| kender | roope, hehe | 23:14 |
| roope | Dual screen action. | 23:14 |
| daniels | majix: i have six, what does that make me? | 23:14 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: I'd send you a picture, but my camera's at home :D | 23:14 |
| Aleksandyr | daniels: crazy. | 23:15 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: indeed, which is the strongest point of all | 23:15 |
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| rev | du | 23:15 |
| rev | er | 23:15 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: the thing that interests me is the number: 500. Especially if they're working off public information. | 23:16 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: I don't think there are 500 registered (significant) users on maemo.org, for one | 23:16 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: I *think* that's similar to the number they did for the 770, but I might be making that up | 23:16 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, in maemo planet there are around 800 | 23:16 |
| kender | mm.. maemo garage sorry | 23:16 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: btobexing it over now | 23:16 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: http://maemo.org/news/25052005.html says the original program was 500, you're right | 23:17 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: how many of those are developers (as opposed to users submitting forum posts and bug reports)? | 23:17 |
| majix | there are also devices for non-maemo key people we are grateful to, I remember Linus got a 770 | 23:17 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, agree | 23:17 |
| Tak | it would be great if most of the (semi-significant) devs on garage got a DDP invite | 23:18 |
| Tak | then I'd just have to find a way to be semi-significant ;-) | 23:18 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, and, the solution, for example, for future developers? whose are new ones with the n800? | 23:18 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: for example, there are 111 projects. That's practically 5 devices per project! | 23:18 |
| * Disconnect runs off to start a project ;) | 23:18 | |
| kender | Disconnect, hehehe | 23:18 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: ergh, that would require me using garage and actually packaging things, instead of just hacking them together | 23:19 |
| kender | Disconnect, a "hello world!" is enough | 23:19 |
| Tak | sure, but it works out great for people that already actually packaged things :-P | 23:19 |
| Disconnect | oh, gotta start a project AND release something? work work work... | 23:19 |
| ssvb | I wonder how many of those first developer device program participants actually contributed something valuable to maemo? | 23:20 |
| qgil | roope: I prefer the shadow of the headset on a screen that in principle would accept no shadow... | 23:20 |
| Disconnect | mplay.p my.mpg sorta works | 23:20 |
| Disconnect | er | 23:20 |
| Disconnect | mplayer | 23:20 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: of which there are rather few | 23:20 |
| Disconnect | and the colors are good | 23:20 |
| Tak | exactly | 23:20 |
| kender | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28201&postcount=3 | 23:21 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: does it play video? can it switch fullscreen/windowed? do keys work correctly? | 23:21 |
| Disconnect | jerky, .5 to 3 fps | 23:21 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: hmm, what kind of video did you try? | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | and no, it doesn't respond reasonably | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | 640x480 mpeg | 23:22 |
| ssvb | but at least it runs, that's good | 23:22 |
| |tbb| | damn i always got a disconnect ;-P | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | mpegpes | 23:23 |
| kender | Disconnect, -vo xv ? | 23:23 |
| Disconnect | and it bails on xv (incompatible with this codec) | 23:23 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: does it run with sdl now? | 23:23 |
| majix | my N800 is defying the laws of nature, first the battery applet said 3 hours use time, then 4, and now after several hours it reads 5. which is nice | 23:23 |
| Disconnect | plays but doesn't use xv | 23:24 |
| kender | majix, hehehe | 23:24 |
| Disconnect | yah sdl seems slightly smoother | 23:24 |
| bmidgley | majix: better not charge it or it might run out | 23:24 |
| myren | anyone compred the xvid video playing power of the N800 to the 770? | 23:24 |
| myren | can we encode higher res / bitrate? | 23:24 |
| Disconnect | gonna get a log hang on | 23:24 |
| myren | or was the DSP untouched | 23:24 |
| bmidgley | is the headset jack 2.5mm or 3.5mm? | 23:24 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: can you try some other video? I wonder if xv will work | 23:24 |
| kender | bmidgley, normal jack I think | 23:24 |
| rev | majix: i get similarily awesome batt life on my 770 | 23:24 |
| rev | majix: though i don't have the batt applet, i just go by the built-in one | 23:25 |
| daniels | Disconnect: xv is incompatible with which codec? | 23:25 |
| Disconnect | daniels: mpegpes | 23:25 |
| daniels | Disconnect: that might be yv12 vs. i420, which i've already fixed, but mplayer should still flip ... | 23:25 |
| Disconnect | yah it plays | 23:25 |
| daniels | Disconnect: i have no idea what mpegpes is, sorry | 23:26 |
| qgil | just curious, how would you distribute the 500 devices? | 23:26 |
| *** jpetersen_ is now known as jpetersen | 23:26 | |
| ssvb | Disconnect: also if you have any wma/wmv files, it would be interesting to see how it can handle them (wma decoder uses floating point) | 23:27 |
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| * Jaffa should upload something to mud-<power-cut/>builder | 23:27 | |
| kender | qgil, nokia will send descount number to that "special" persons emails | 23:28 |
| VRe | ..ah: so next tablet comes out Q1/2008 with wimax.. | 23:28 |
| kender | people | 23:28 |
| kender | sorry | 23:28 |
| NickDe | on the maemo site | 23:28 |
| NickDe | -we keep on selling and supporting 770s | 23:28 |
| NickDe | keep on selling 770's | 23:28 |
| kender | VRe, really? that's true? | 23:28 |
| NickDe | I bet they cut the price to 249.99 or less and keep it going for a bit | 23:28 |
| NickDe | wow | 23:28 |
| qgil | kender: I know, what would be your definition of "special"? How would you come up with the 500 names? | 23:29 |
| Disconnect | http://pastebin.com/854609 | 23:29 |
| Disconnect | -vo xv | 23:29 |
| kender | qgil, dunno | 23:29 |
| VRe | kender: So the ceo promised on speech in CES | 23:29 |
| Jaffa | qgil: that's an interesting question. The options, as I see it, 1) Apply - used for 770, 2) Choose from the pool - being used now, 3) Discounted upgrades for first 500 770 owners to apply, 4) Nothing at all, 5) ... ? | 23:30 |
| Tak | except that there's no "apply" | 23:30 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: 1) maemo.org 2) garage.maemo.org 3) internettablettalk.com | 23:31 |
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| Jaffa | qgil: only issue with (2) is one of perceived fairness. What if someone contributes to ITT a lot, for example, is that considered (by Maemo who are unrelated to this third party site) as contributing to the platform? | 23:31 |
| Aleksandyr | this channel fits in somewhere too. | 23:31 |
| Disconnect | random drawings | 23:31 |
| mat | humm, I'm going to start a club called "dumb guys who bought the N770 just weeks before the N800 was released" | 23:31 |
| qgil | Jaffa: are you talking about owners/users? the devices are intended to help hackers/developers | 23:31 |
| jpetersen | qgil: bugzilla.maemo.org | 23:31 |
| Disconnect | mat: lol | 23:31 |
| Tak | heh, if it's bugzilla, I'm screwed | 23:31 |
| Aleksandyr | I've gotten nothing from bugzilla.maemo.org | 23:32 |
| ferulo | qgil: IMHO there are also some gtk+/gnome hackers interested on the device that could be cool potential contributors to maemo | 23:32 |
| Aleksandyr | I want access to the internal one =/ read-only, even! | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: that help? | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | qgil: true, I thought you were asking more widely. Hackers doesn't necessarily equal developers, though. | 23:32 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: don't know yet, seems like it uses xv, but also performs software scaling for some reason | 23:32 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: I like to think I embody hacker != developer ;) | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | Could not find matching colorspace - retrying with -vf scale... | 23:33 |
| qgil | hackers, developers, contributors... | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: :) | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | qgil: yeah, so as I was saying if someone's a power user who helps other people get started, are they worthy? (This is a rhetorical question, showing that I understand it's a hard problem, and one I'm glad I don't have to solve ;-)) | 23:33 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: sadly, the answer is probably no. | 23:34 |
| koen | Jaffa: that's why they have 500 discounts | 23:34 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: can you try to benchmark mplayer using these instructions? http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22280&view=findpost&p=149182 | 23:34 |
| qgil | worthness here is limited by the amount of 500 | 23:34 |
| Jaffa | qgil: An *open* process would be to accept nominations, but there are obviously issues with that too. | 23:34 |
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| koen | Jaffa: and a number of key FOSS people have been donated a 770 in the past (e.g. completely free) | 23:34 |
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| Disconnect | n93 video plays like a champ (better than with media player) | 23:35 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: to see how it compares to Nokia 770 (using -lavdopts idct=16 only) | 23:35 |
| qgil | if we have 15 maemo contributors then you can start with power users, if you have 550 instead we have a problem here | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | koen: yup - I certainly see the same happening again (or at least being given the discount) | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | qgil: indeed. | 23:35 |
| Disconnect | boom, crash | 23:35 |
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| * Jaffa would, as he's said before and he were running the selection process, use about half-3/5 for existing contributors and then the rest for targetted FOSS people who are likely to contribute | 23:36 | |
| Aleksandyr | the problem with likely contributors in this case | 23:36 |
| Aleksandyr | is that it's not a 100% subsidy. | 23:36 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: what happened? | 23:37 |
| koen | Jaffa: although I see one huge drawback with the 800 | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | koen: one? | 23:37 |
| koen | Jaffa: all those people (cairo, gtk) that are doing optimizations for 'embedded' should not get one | 23:37 |
| Disconnect | flickered between a couple of frames about 2fps, eventually exited. | 23:37 |
| Aleksandyr | a discount, even a large one, won't make someone who's not already inclined to write software buy the device. | 23:37 |
| qgil | with the 770 there have been some 100% subsidies, though (I ignore how many and I also ignore if there are plans to 100% subsidize N800s) | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | koen: heh :) | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: true | 23:38 |
| koen | Jaffa: "could be, but the n800 on my desk has an fpu" | 23:38 |
| kender | So as of now | 23:38 |
| kender | -we keep on selling and supporting 770s | 23:38 |
| kender | -we expect many Maemo applications to be made available for both products | 23:38 |
| kender | -hacking and development will be supported on both platforms | 23:38 |
| kender | -Nokia will not integrate and make OS2007 available for 770 | 23:38 |
| kender | from -> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/more-from-vegas.html | 23:38 |
| Aleksandyr | the discount's going to get maximum ROI from people who have released 770 apps in the past, because 100% of them WILL rerelease for the 800 if they take the discount. | 23:38 |
| Disconnect | benching now | 23:38 |
| Aleksandyr | for example, if I had an N800 in my hand, there'd already be abiword and jamvm packages for it. | 23:39 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: similarly Sylpheed, galculator, a proper NetSurf package and I'd join you in hacking on the Java | 23:39 |
| Aleksandyr | counterpoint being that there will be such packages later on from me regardless of whether I get an N800, but that's just an ego thing ;) | 23:39 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: benching just idct=16 should be enough, also we can see how n800 compares to other ARM devices (there are some other benchmarks in that thread) :) | 23:40 |
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| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: there ought to be a Java on the N* group. | 23:40 |
| Jaffa | qgil/daniels: do normal GUI 770 apps run, without recompilation on the N800? There seems to be unclarity on this issue. | 23:40 |
| qgil | on the other hand, what is your impression about how the 500 770s were distributed at the time? good? bad? no idea? | 23:40 |
| daniels | Jaffa: some, but not all | 23:41 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: there's mention of functions being removed in maemo3, so I would hazard it's not 100% | 23:41 |
| koen | Jaffa: depends, thanks to g_slice in glib | 23:41 |
| Jaffa | Right, I see. That's clearer; thanks :) | 23:41 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: I have yet to hear about anyone receiving one, so no idea | 23:41 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: I don't believe there's a list anywhere to compare | 23:41 |
| qgil | I was asking about subjective perception :) | 23:42 |
| qgil | I remember there were some weeks at Planet GNOME in which I felt like the last monkeuy not getting one of those intriguing devices | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | qgil: I only found out about the 770 once it'd closed, but I can see why you'd avoid it this time. | 23:43 |
| Disconnect | 49.089 0.069 0.0 0.633 = 49.791 | 23:43 |
| ferulo | I got a developer discount for the 770 last year | 23:43 |
| ssvb | Aleksandyr: I managed to apply in the last few days and got a device :) | 23:43 |
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| Aleksandyr | ssvb: then as far as I'm concerned the program works ;) | 23:44 |
| jpetersen | qgil: i had the impression the 770s were contributed good | 23:44 |
| Disconnect | rerunning, i'll pastebin the results | 23:44 |
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| Disconnect | but eventually i'll be off to the bar to use it to pick up chicks ;) | 23:45 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: run with '-loop 5' in order to have it automatically run video several times | 23:45 |
| Disconnect | yep | 23:45 |
| Aleksandyr | Disconnect: it works somewhat better than you would think | 23:45 |
| pahartik | dwd: I do use "localhost" for IRC, IMAP, SMTP, NNTP... because they are redirected through SSH | 23:45 |
| Disconnect | Aleksandyr: I wasn't kidding (well, a little cuz i'm married. but yah, it works :) ..) | 23:46 |
| Aleksandyr | "Hey ladies...did you know I have the internet with me?" "Really? Where?" "In my pants." | 23:46 |
| timeless | > um | 23:47 |
| timeless | > what is nokia new year's eve | 23:47 |
| timeless | > and why is it on now? | 23:47 |
| Disconnect | pahartik: be safe, use 127.0.0.1 instead. localhost might be defined by a hostile dns server | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | the 770 is also the greatest bar bet settler known to man. | 23:47 |
| rev | hahah | 23:47 |
| Disconnect | 800 is greater but yes | 23:47 |
| rev | Aleksandyr: i'd say the same thing for any pda when i started to carry around a wikipedia mirror with me on my pda | 23:47 |
| Aleksandyr | rev: hrm. I should write something to do that. | 23:47 |
| Tak | how big is a wikipedia mirror? | 23:48 |
| rev | yeah, on PocketPC and PalmOS there is a script (perl?) that takes the database dump and generates a TomeRaider file, then you use TOmeRaider on each platform to read the file | 23:48 |
| rev | Tak: well... anywhere between 500 MB and 1.5 GB | 23:48 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak: varies. You'll want about 1.5GB. | 23:48 |
| Tak | not bad | 23:48 |
| rev | but if you use an older wikipedia mirror with no images you can get in at 500 MB or so | 23:49 |
| rev | i use one from 2005 that is 700 MB w/ no images | 23:49 |
| Aleksandyr | zbedic doesn't look like it would be too hard to duplicate | 23:49 |
| Aleksandyr | alternatively, I could cheat with lighthttpd | 23:49 |
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| Tak | could slap wikipedia on a 2g mmc-micro | 23:49 |
| rev | but wikipedia has grown HUGElY in the last year or two, so i keep using an older mirror | 23:49 |
| rev | actually, i don't even keep a mirror anymore- i now have a cell phone that has always on, unlimited broadband internet access | 23:49 |
| rev | so i just actally go to wikipedia | 23:50 |
| rev | but i still have the mirror on my unused axim | 23:50 |
| Aleksandyr | rev: a lightweight caching wikipedia client would probably still be useful, right? | 23:50 |
| Aleksandyr | rev: have it store the last 500MB of requested pages and autofetch linked documents one deep | 23:50 |
| mat | btw, anyone here tried to hack his N770/N800 device to transform it into a universal remote ? that is, hacking a IR receiver/transmitter, to receive the codes from various remotes and retransmit it | 23:50 |
| qgil | gosh, precisely today my neighbour asked me to put "an Encarta" in the computer I'm about to give to his taughter (11 years old) and I was thinking how to get wikipedia offline - any link provided by the lazy IRC will be appreciated | 23:51 |
| rev | Aleksandyr: sure | 23:51 |
| Aleksandyr | mat: yes, it's been done. | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: auto-fetching would be cool, but how often do you go back to the same wikipedia page twice in, say, a day? ;-/ | 23:51 |
| k-way | ssvb, you don't even have a n800? | 23:51 |
| mat | ah. any pointers ? I couldn't find anything | 23:51 |
| NickDe | I dont like how Noam Chomsky could add to the article on linguistics but then some 12 year old wikipedia editor could revert his edits... I just can't fully give into the wikipedia craze knowing thats the case.... | 23:51 |
| Aleksandyr | mat: searching... | 23:51 |
| mat | and I would love to use the big pretty screen of my N770 to control my stuff | 23:51 |
| kender | majix, the n800 haven't got IR (nor N700) | 23:51 |
| Aleksandyr | NickDe: collective intelligence ain't | 23:51 |
| Aleksandyr | kender: however an IR blaster client has been written | 23:51 |
| NickDe | Aleksandyr: ...??? | 23:52 |
| rev | NickDe: perhaps, but those arguments just don't work- studies have shown wikipedia is more accurate than "real" encyclopedia's- someone else would go fix it | 23:52 |
| qgil | (the old computer I will give to my neighbour will be based on Ubuntu or Edubuntu + needless to say I don't have an Encarta around | 23:52 |
| mat | kender: I know that, which is why I'm talking about hardware mods | 23:52 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: very often | 23:52 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: researching the best process for you | 23:52 |
| mat | I know writing a IR receiver/transmitter from audio jack or usb is doable | 23:52 |
| Disconnect | posting bench results | 23:52 |
| rev | it is democracy vs authority- wikipedia is unsettling to folks for whom trusting the masses is scary | 23:52 |
| ssvb | k-way: not yet, but I hope to get one eventually :) | 23:52 |
| rev | to each their own | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: even in bars? I tend to look something up once and go off on a merry trail, lost for hours on the minutae of fictional Stargate physics | 23:52 |
| mat | I don't want to start doing hardware mods if someone already tried before me, though :) | 23:52 |
| Aleksandyr | mat: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/uremote770/ | 23:52 |
| NickDe | rev: thats not always the case though.. like I said.. Noam Chomsky could add to Linguistics article but then some 12 year old could say "thats not right" and revert the edit... | 23:53 |
| *** k-way is now known as keesj | 23:53 | |
| NickDe | encyclopedias have real editors | 23:53 |
| NickDe | but I will use wikipedia everyday | 23:53 |
| Disconnect | http://rafb.net/p/u4AxTf72.html | 23:53 |
| NickDe | but not for an authoritative reference | 23:53 |
| qgil | Aleksandyr: research would be the best process if I wouldn't have to organize a whole family move to Finland before Saturday - having to deliver the PC before - but yes, you're right :) | 23:53 |
| Tak | NickDe: however, the wikipedia editors have been shown to be just as good as "real" editors | 23:53 |
| Disconnect | pastebin blew up so.. | 23:53 |
| Aleksandyr | Jaffa: the advantage of this "client" would be that it uses the XML interface and not the HTML interface, cutting down download time if nothing else | 23:53 |
| mat | Aleksandyr: hum, using an external PC though. still, it's a start, thanks | 23:53 |
| rev | NickDe: but then the other folks would see the non-sensical 12-year edit/revert and cahnge it back- it isn't like the work is lost | 23:53 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: I meant I'm going to figure it out and give you a link ;) give me a moment | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | Aleksandyr: agreed, I'd been thinking about something similar recently. | 23:54 |
| ferulo | qgil: http://www.olpcnews.com/content/reference/wikipeida_shipped_in.html | 23:54 |
| rev | NickDe: that said, sometimes experts aren't right- it's not like something should be kept in the linguistics article just because chomsky said it- maybe the 12 year old goes and and fixes some small mistakes. | 23:54 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: thanks a lot, so at least for mplayer n800 is about 30% faster than 770 (and it is also faster than nonoverclocked Sharp Zaurus at 416MHz) | 23:54 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: dang, the method I used is windows-only. | 23:54 |
| rev | hey guys, what do i use to watch FLV videos from youtube and the like? | 23:55 |
| rev | i thought the built-in movie player would play it, but no dice | 23:55 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: is it built for the new cpu? | 23:55 |
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| qgil | ferulo: thanks but... where is the deb package containing wikipedia content? ;) | 23:55 |
| Disconnect | rev: opera sorta works | 23:55 |
| ferulo | they are supposed to be working on it | 23:55 |
| rev | Disconnect: huh? | 23:55 |
| ferulo | but in rpm :) | 23:55 |
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| Jaffa | rev: On a 770 I use VidConvert if I'm online, but then I'm biased cos I wrote it: http://www.bleb.org/services/vidconvert/ | 23:55 |
| Disconnect | (.5fps) | 23:55 |
| qgil | ferulo: i can deal with this | 23:55 |
| rev | Jaffa: that's what i'm saying- i used a service like that, and now i have a .FLV file- and what do i use to play it? | 23:56 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Danimo/Knowledge | 23:56 |
| rev | Disconnect: what do you mean? opera plays youtube videos at 0.5 fps? not on my machine ... | 23:56 |
| tigert | now I want to hack together a webcam app for this | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | rev: You really didn't use VidConvert. It dumps out an AVI file designed for the Nokia 770. | 23:56 |
| koen | tigert: photobooth clone | 23:56 |
| Aleksandyr | rev: mplayer for victory. | 23:56 |
| rev | Jaffa: do you have a working bookmarklet, or do i have to do pasting my self? | 23:56 |
| rev | Aleksandyr: ah, cool | 23:56 |
| tigert | that too would be fun | 23:56 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: yes, but of course it was not hand optimized for armv6 yet | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | rev: the bookmarklet works for me | 23:56 |
| rev | Jaffa: really? awesome... i used something like downloadthisvideo.com, something like that | 23:57 |
| koen | tigert: with flickr support of course :) | 23:57 |
| tigert | yea | 23:57 |
| Aleksandyr | anyone else want Greasemonkey for Opera? :D | 23:57 |
| qgil | Aleksandyr: das klingt gut - dankeschön! | 23:57 |
| Disconnect | lol | 23:57 |
| tigert | koen: flickr photobooth would rock | 23:57 |
| tigert | on a conference for example | 23:57 |
| rev | Jaffa: i'll go try yours out now, thanks! | 23:57 |
| tigert | get a photostream of booth visitors | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | rev: my pleasure ;-) | 23:57 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: erm, bitte? I have some english references on Knowledge but that's the main page | 23:57 |
| dushko | Aleksandyr: I thought there was some equivalent to Greasemonkey on Opera | 23:57 |
| * Aleksandyr barely speaks english. | 23:57 | |
| koen | tigert: I have a plugin called flickrbooth for the mac | 23:57 |
| Aleksandyr | dushko: Opera the real thing supports user scripts, IIRC | 23:58 |
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| tigert | koen: right | 23:58 |
| Tak | hmm | 23:58 |
| Tak | does the 800 support SDHC? | 23:58 |
| myren | is the DSP at all enhanced in the N800? | 23:58 |
| qgil | Aleksandyr: thanks for the link :) | 23:58 |
| tigert | so it pushes immediately the taken pics to flickr? | 23:58 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: anyway, these results are expected, they match cpu clock speed increase and memory performance difference | 23:58 |
| myren | and whats the verdict on the headphone jack? | 23:58 |
| dushko | Aleksandyr: Embedded version doesn't? | 23:58 |
| koen | tigert: if you want it to | 23:58 |
| tigert | myren: verdict? | 23:58 |
| Disconnect | cool | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | dushko: if it did, I can't find it | 23:58 |
| Aleksandyr | qgil: glad to help! | 23:58 |
| myren | tigert: its a 3.5 but it only is single channel? | 23:58 |
| tigert | myren: the thingy comes with a wired headphone set that has a mic thingy | 23:58 |
| tigert | so it is one extra contact for mic afaik | 23:59 |
| tigert | as the thing has a mic | 23:59 |
| myren | one jac for the headphone & mic? | 23:59 |
| tigert | but I havent tried it for calling yet | 23:59 |
| myren | or does the mic have its own jack? | 23:59 |
| suihkulokki | Tak: even if if doesn't now, SDHC is pin-compatible SD, so it's only a matter of updating driver | 23:59 |
| Disconnect | myren: one jack | 23:59 |
| tigert | myren: it plugs into one | 23:59 |
| myren | blllaaaahh | 23:59 |
| tigert | myren: wait a sec | 23:59 |
| Tak | excellent | 23:59 |
| rev | suihkulokki: there isn't any harware diff at all? | 23:59 |
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