IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-01-07

mgedminDisconnect: does the box/manual say anything about battery life?00:05
mgedminthe 770 supposedly had 3 hours with wifi on00:05
pahartikDisconnect: what would "hciconfig -a" show?00:05
Disconnectpahartik: looking for something specific? its a bit long to retype :)00:07
Disconnectmgedmin: nada but its bp-5l same as 77000:08
mgedminso it only leaves us wondering how much power the new cpu, ram and other hardware requires00:08
Disconnectprolly come out at release00:09
pahartikDisconnect: "HCI Ver", "LMP Ver", "Manufacturer"00:10
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Disconnectver 2.0 lmp 2.0 manuf cambridge silicon radio (10)00:11
Disconnectlmp subver 0x6cc00:12
pahartikDisconnect: thank you00:12
Disconnectbrb finding rsmmc adapter, gonna see if it likes 2g cards00:12
mgedminbtw what did you mean that bt is actually reasonable (send/recv files)?00:14
mgedmindoes it support obex push by any chance?00:15
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ssvbDisconnect: can you post log of dmesg just after booting somewhere? I wonder what videocontroller chip is used in this new device00:21
Disconnectmgedmin: yep00:21
ssvbIt can also provide a lot of insights about the hardware00:21
* mgedmin drools00:21
Disconnect2g rsmmc + adapter works00:22
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mgedminso, are both slots full size?00:24
qgilwas black before? It's eating my eyes00:24
chippy_i'm late to the party! Did anyone work out what the procesor is yet?00:25
mgedminno, it used to be white00:25
Disconnectrebooting for dmesg (i'm curious too)00:25
mgedminchippy_: 320 MHz ARM6 of some sort00:25
mgedmincheck thoughtfix's blog for more details00:25
mgedminor irc logs00:25
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chippy_Yeah. Saw that. Thx. USeful upgrade. Good enough for better video.00:25
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MilhouseHave we established how much dynamic RAM/flash RAM is installed?00:26
chippy_128 RAM right?00:26
timdougMilhouse: 128MB00:26
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Milhouse770 had 64MB dynamic RAM and 64MB flash RAM?00:26
mgedminit has 128 flash and 64 ram00:27
Disconnectroot fs is 251M00:27
mgedminwoohoo, so everything is double00:27
Disconnectso 128/256 it looks like00:27
Milhouseok, so double the flash ram... hmmm... wonder if more dynamic RAM would have been a good thing, I guess I should trust Nokia! :)00:27
* mgedmin mistyped "has" for "had"00:27
Milhouseah... cool (confused now)00:28
keesjwhat is vfp?00:28
DisconnectMilhouse: like, say, double the ram?00:28
mgedminhardware floating point support00:28
Milhousejolly good - doubel the ram :)00:28
* mgedmin thinks 2x RAM and 2x flash is reason enough to get the N80000:28
MilhouseSerge will be happy about that - hardware FP :)00:28
Disconnectwhoa. mediastreamer found my myth box00:29
mgedminand that's not counting faster cpu and 2 SD slots00:29
mgedmindoes it play oggs?00:29
MilhouseMe wants 4GB SD cards... hopefully support will arrive in the first update to OS 2007!00:29
Disconnectwon`t play ("Object not found") but the show list is there00:29
MilhouseI read it now plays flash... does that mean it has Flash 9 support (the only recent version ported to Linux)?00:30
Milhousesorry, flash == youtube video00:30
mgedminyoutube works on flash 600:30
Milhousei thought it choked?00:30
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mgedminor was it flash 7?00:31
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Milhousewanted Flash 8 or higher00:31
mgedminthe one that was available on linux before 900:31
Milhouse7 then I think00:31
Milhouseand the 770 had Flash 6?00:31
mgedminmaybe it was youtube = flash 7, nokia 770 = flash 600:31
Milhouseso what version of flash is now on the N800?00:32
mgedminmyspace requires flash 900:32
Disconnectooooh battery app does estimates00:32
mgedminthat would be a way to test00:32
soothsaySorry, I'm sure this has been repeated to death but what are CPU and mem specs for the N800?00:32
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mgedminooh, estimates!00:32
Disconnect10 days idle, 3 hrs in use00:32
Milhouseooh, you mean it does something when you click the battery icon?00:32
mgedminsoothsay: 320 mhz arm6, 128 mb ram, 256 mb flash00:32
Milhousenow that's worth shelling out for... ;)00:32
soothsaymgedmin: Thanks00:32
mgedmincan anyone change the /topic ?00:32
soothsayI like those specs00:32
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Disconnectcranked bl it went to 2 hrs00:33
MilhouseI'd have been happy with just a bumped CPU - ecstatic at double the memory.00:33
soothsayAnyone know anything about availability outside of U.S.?00:33
chippy_good Q00:33
Milhousegoing to order one as soon as they appear online (I'm in the UK - bit far to go for CompUSA)00:33
qgilmgedmin: if it's a Maemo related topic...  ;)00:33
chippy_Havent see/heard anything in Germany yet.00:33
Disconnectsoothsay: given its not released officially.....00:33
mgedminmy coworker is going to the US in 2 weeks *grin*00:33
MilhouseI imagine they'll go live online Monday/Tuesday next week00:34
Disconnect /topic n800 is schweeet!00:34
MilhouseI downloaded the manual, it has entries to but that page isn't live yet00:34
soothsayDisconnect: Well, some people know that its being distributed at big box retailers in US. Maybe the situation is similar elsewhere.00:34
MilhouseSounds like CompUSA have stuffed up00:34
MilhouseI say Textrat slapping them about on engadget00:34
chippy_Q. Does it have Mic-in or just built-in mic?00:35
Disconnectmic on the headset00:35
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chippy_ok combo socket00:36
MilhouseStill no BT headset or audio support - one can only hope it arrives in a future 2007 update00:36
JaffaThe big question is will 2007 OS be released for the 770, and will the performance suck if it's been designed for the multi-times better N800?00:36
MilhouseThe new CPU should have enough grunt for Java too - if that ever arrives00:37
Disconnectthe old one did too, but its proprietary :(00:37
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Milhousetrue, but with 2.5x the performance of the old CPU it should fly on the new one (maybe it would have done on the old one when using the proprietary extensions that nobody could get specs for)00:38
MilhouseOS 2007 on 770 - my guess there will be two versions, one for N800 and one for 77000:39
soothsayJazelle is what the ARM Java execution stuff is called00:39
soothsayNew proc probably also has it.00:39
MilhouseIt does, but nobody has access to the specs (other than Nokia & ARM)00:39
chippy_Shit. No BT headset. Or A2DP I guess. Is it BT 1.2 or 2.000:39
MilhouseI would also guess that new versions for the 770 will continue only for another year or so00:41
ssvbMilhouse: CPU speed improvement will be more like 30% on average and not 2.5x, but for stuff that requires floating point math for example, it will be many times faster00:41
bertlmikeis it usb 1.1 or 2.0? and does it have usb host support?00:41
Milhouseyeah, i'm just getting that figure from the bogomips rating - which we all know is entirely, er, bogus00:41
soothsayIs Jazelle an instruction set?00:42
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Milhousedesigned for Java00:42
Milhousebyte code00:42
chippy_I've put as much info as I can in a datasheet now.
soothsayWho the hell makes a CPU and doesn't tell anyone how to use the instruction set?00:42
chippy_will keep that as updated as I can00:42
MilhouseThere is some restriction somewhere - it's either ARM, Nokia or it could even be SUN00:43
Disconnectbuilt in speakers aren't bad for once00:43
Milhousethere is talk the problem will go away once Java is full open sourced which suggests the problem may be with SUN00:43
soothsayI think it needs to be licensed from ARM00:43
MilhousePerhaps Nokia don't see the demand00:43
MilhouseThey seem to be pushing more of the open source scripting alternatives (Python etc)00:44
tigertwho cares about java? it would have been OK if they open sourced it 2 years ago00:44
soothsayNokia may be a licensee, but they wouldn't be able to sub-license to everyone00:44
tigertits fine for serverside stuff00:44
MilhouseA lot of people care about Java!00:44
MilhouseLike er big enterprises00:44
tigertbut they are WAY late with the opensourcing00:44
tigertfor desktop00:44
suihkulokkiMilhouse: apparently not enough for anyone to port java to 770 themself..00:45
* tigert is more excited about mono for maemo00:45
MilhouseI think there's been one or two attempts - performance wasn't great00:45
Jaffasuihkulokki: there are Java ports for the 770, and they work.00:45
Jaffasuihkulokki: you could say the same about C#00:45
tigerthow many cool java apps are there ?00:45
MilhouseMono for N800 - yay! :)00:45
tigertcompared to what is happening on linux with mono00:45
lleyou could always run eclipse on 77000:46
suihkulokkiJaffa: hmh, I was under the impression that every day someone asks here for java00:46
tigertand there is work on mono community to make it work on maemo00:46
keesjthere is jruby , and eclipse :)00:46
ssvbI think porting luajit to maemo could be an interesting idea:
Jaffasuihkulokki: they've not been packaged, or modified to auto-hildonise, but it's possible.00:47
MilhouseWhat about all those Java apps on phones - could be ideal for the 770/N80000:47
llelua is rather hideous from syntax point of view00:47
tigertMilhouse: name one that you use?00:47
ssvblua is a simple nice nice lightweight language, but it relies on floating point math (and that's supposedly not a problem anymore)00:47
Milhouseok  you got me00:47
tigertMilhouse: the point is, its a lot easier to port your random linux app to maemo just by recompiling00:47
MilhouseDon't they have games and stuff?00:48
llessvb: lua is a nice language for many things, but not for writing applications entirely in it, imho00:48
tigertand perhaps some ui love00:48
Jaffatigert: sorry, that's bollocks.00:48
tigertJaffa: I am biased :)00:48
tigertand it is late00:48
MilhouseI know... and to be honest, Java for GUIs is a bit of a lost cause but it is a hole that could/should be filled considering the extensions are in the CPU :)00:48
Jaffatigert: without the Gtk+ fork that Nokia (for relatively good reasons) don't want to do, porting to Maemo is harder than it needs to be.00:48
Disconnectso now who is gonna recompile all their apps for me? ;)00:48
JaffaIt's not *too* hard for gtk+ apps, but it's not as easy as it could be (for us, resulting in more work for the Maemo team)00:49
suihkulokkille: you run jplus on 770 if it had java!00:49
timdougDisconnect: opera version?00:49
tigertJaffa: yeah, the whole hildon stuff should just be "gnome embedded"00:49
llesuihkulokki: oh right, forgot about that already ;)00:49
bertlmikehi everyone! sorry if this has been asked before, but has anyone tested the usb speed and checked for host support?00:49
tigertJaffa: a "handheld" mode for gtk00:49
MilhouseTomcat on N800... ;)00:49
tigertwith special widgets where needed00:49
* tigert would love that00:49
tigert...and ZERO patches!00:50
tigertbut its liian hapokasta00:50
* tigert ducks00:50
* Disconnect blew up his usb power injector so..00:50
mgedminwhat's the binary compatibility?  do mistral/scirocco apps work on the N800?00:50
Jaffatigert: "liian hapokasta"?00:50
tigertJaffa: dont ask00:50
Milhousetalking of speed, hopefully the WiFi speed is better than the 400Kb/s on the 770 - anyone able to test using TTCP?00:50
Jaffamgedmin: Carlos did say bora would have "minor" incompatible API changes.00:50
Tak...and if not, is there a scratchbox release yet?00:50
Jaffatigert: fairy snuff ;-)00:50
tigertJaffa: just one finnish internet joke00:51
suihkulokkiJaffa: youtube it. but don't ask for explantions =)00:51
tigerthard to explain00:51
mgedminI think there was a rootstrap for bora00:51
Jaffatigert: you responsible for the black theme on the N800 screenshots? It looks *nice*.00:51
Disconnectopera 8.5 internal / build 2.0.3100:51
tigertcannot comment, but the answer is no00:51
JaffaOf course, any such device doesn't exist yet.00:51
tigertI am almost done with my nice blue theme00:51
tigertand I hope to finish it next week00:51
tigertfor the maemo devel stuff00:52
tigertJaffa: yeah, purely hypothetically of course00:52
Disconnectnokia should use rantradio as the default00:52
Disconnectbtw backspace in a browser form still goes back in the history :(00:53
Jaffasuihkulokki: WTF?! seems very weird.00:53
tigertJaffa: it is00:53
Disconnectand home-home should desktop, not close the app list00:54
tigertJaffa: well, let me attempt00:54
tigertJaffa: there was this one guy who went to this finnish TV show that is about breaking records00:54
tigert"I can drink 1.5 liters of coke in 45 seconds!"00:54
tigertand then he couldnt, the ultimate flop00:54
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tigerton national TV00:54
tigertand it got into youtube00:55
tigertand got huge on  irc etc00:55
tigerthis words were roughly "I cannot, it's too acidic" ("ei pysty, liian hapokasta" in finnish)00:55
tigertthus the phrase00:55
llesuihkulokki: jplus seems to not be entirely dead, but anyway, you'd need to port sqlplus to maemo first ;)00:55
tigertthen people started to do their own versions00:55
tigert < this is actually a internet competition where they try to find a real record00:56
tigertone can participate by sending a link to a youtube video of a record attempt00:56
suihkulokkiJaffa: that's the original:
tigertits just insanity, the real yellow tabloid newspaper featured the guy etc00:57
Milhousewhat does "uname -a" say on the N800?00:57
mgedminchippy_: the N800 has two full-size SD card slots00:58
soothsayWhat size SD card does it come with?00:58
tigertJaffa: < the current record of 0.5l of coke00:59
chippy_2xfull size. Niiiice. Will update the datasheet.00:59
tigertcrazy and silly, but kinda cool as an internet phenomenon00:59
Takwhat's the n800 selling for?00:59
mgedminTak: $40000:59
Milhousesoothsay: 128Mb I believe00:59
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pahartiktigert: I think "liian hapokasta" in that case would translate to "too well carbonated"00:59
Takis that the compusa price?00:59
tigertpahartik: yeah01:00
tigertor just "too carbonated"01:00
mgedminTak: yes01:00
Takdamn - that's really nice considering they're selling the 770 for $35001:00
Milhouseshould be cheaper online direct from Nokia - maybe $30 less? should work out close to £200 in the UK01:00
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tigertin any case, its very silly but in a way pretty interesting in the social phenomenon sense, how such a thing can become so big in a short time01:00
Disconnectyah comes w/ 128 mini-sd01:00
Milhousebut I bet it will be closer to £25001:00
tigertI mean, one can hear kids talk about it on the street01:00
chippy_OK. Updated the datasheet. Thx.01:00
chippy_Price on datasheet too.01:00
Milhousea bit like the Mentos/Coke thing01:01
tigertMilhouse: yeah01:01
tigertvery much01:01
tigert"I want to do it too!!"01:01
tigertor many other things on youtube01:01
tigertit has changed a lot01:01
tigertthe craziest thing was the lonelygirl15 stunt01:01
pahartiktigert: though I have not seen that video content or anything obviously related01:01
Milhouseman, he's flagging by his 3rd glass!01:01
tigertwhere it actually was a tv producer just doing ad-hoc tv series -kinda thing on youtube01:01
tigertthat looked like a teen videoblog01:02
suihkulokkitigert: fortunetly the guy himself seems to take it with humour.01:02
tigertTHAT is awesome01:02
Milhousehe's finished on 3 - oh dear!01:02
tigertsuihkulokki: yeah01:02
tigertMilhouse: yeah, it was the ultimate flop on TV01:02
Milhousepoor fella01:02
tigertMilhouse: he himself had his coke warm and the bottles had been standing open (duh)01:02
Milhousemind you, i wouldn't poke fun at him - he's a big lad!01:02
tigertso it was easier at home :)01:03
tigertbut what is the interesting thing is how youtube makes this kind of stuff possible01:03
Disconnectdoesn't like itunes-ripped m4a01:03
tigertor the other case where someone posted a video of a security guard in helsinki who was kicking a dude on the floor01:03
tigertit got into police investigation01:03
tigertand big news here01:04
jtokashI just got back with my n80001:04
tigertyoutube is interesting01:04
jtokashHave to feed the kids before I can do anything01:04
Takso like the finnish rodney king01:04
Milhouseit is, particularly when stupid people post up illegal activities then horror of horrors, receive a knock on the door - duh :)01:04
* Disconnect is gonna find a snack and a beer01:04
tigertMilhouse: yeah01:04
sxpertI love this water cooling idea :D
pahartiktigert: it depends on proprietary crap...01:05
tigertMilhouse: someone posted a "getaway" video of crazy motorbike street racing01:05
tigertpahartik: yeah it does01:05
tigertMilhouse: with a very special bike01:05
Milhouselicence plates nicely focused?01:05
tigertMilhouse: "gee, who knew they could track him since it was the only such bike model in town?"01:05
sxpertthey have night & day speeding cameras that read plates here01:06
Milhouseyou have to wonder about some people...01:06
sxpertin real time, and then there's a display saying "<foo>, yer driving too fast"01:06
tigertMilhouse: the car plates he overtook were nicely visible01:06
tigertso the cops just called those folks and asked what kind of bike it was01:06
tigertsxpert: nifty and scary01:06
sxperttigert, yeah01:07
Milhousenot to mention, stupid :)01:07
suihkulokkitigert: in oulu? I think it was originally leaked when the author copied it via some university servers /tmp, and forgot to delete it from there01:07
tigertsxpert: "<foo>, looks like you are driving to <xxx-store> again, might be interested in <yyy-store> as well?"01:07
Taksxpert: that's killer - too bad it doesn't heat the pool too01:07
tigertsuihkulokki: ok :=)01:07
tigertsuihkulokki: yea, oulu01:07
sxpertTak, considering the rules of thermodynamics, I suppose it does. it all depends on cluster size :D01:07
Milhousenext thing you know they'll have videos of executions on youtube.01:07
sxpertTak, imagine a google DC :D01:08
Takthey'd need a nuclear-plant-style tower01:08
tigertMilhouse: well, saddam is probably there already01:08
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Taksaddam is definitely there01:09
Milhousehe most definately is01:09
tigertin several copies01:09
MilhouseStrewth... people on engadget still asking if it's a phone - argh!01:13
soothsayCan't stand that either01:13
tigertheh.. brain dysfunction.. "nokia, must be phone!!"01:13
mgedminit's a VoIP phone!01:13
MilhouseWhen I got a TiVo in 2000 it was hard explaining the concept to people - "Why would I want a TiVo when I've got my video recorder?"01:14
mgedminI think the "nokia must be a phone" assumption once let me get through air security faster01:14
MilhouseI feel the same could be true of the Internet Tablet :(01:14
mgedminwhich was good, because I was almost late for the plane01:14
tigertMilhouse: yeah. it probably is always the case when there is a new type of a device01:14
tigertMilhouse: its the same with this pda thing01:14
tigert"what, no calendar?"01:14
tigert"but its a pda!"01:14
Milhouseyeah, it took another manufacturer with deep pockets (Sky with Sky+) before the idea sank in over 4 years later (my TiVo still going strong, best gadget eva!)01:15
Takheh, my fiancee has that issue all the time01:15
Tak"Cool phone!"  "It's not a phone, it's an internet tablet."   "Oh, ok........Say, can I borrow your phone for a sec?"01:16
MilhouseThis is typical of some people though - from engadget: "OK. I'm a tech fanatic like everyone else here but what real use does this have beyond the "one ups manship" of a new tech toy. Most tech fans have a Treo or treo like cell phone that can go on the web."01:16
soothsayDo you guys write code?01:16
MilhouseThat poster has no idea... I can't handle surfing the web even on my VGA iPAQ, let alone a crappy little phone!01:16
MilhouseI make a passable living from it01:17
soothsayI think only people who write code really 'get it'.01:17
MilhouseNokia really do have to advertise this new device a lot more I think01:17
tigertMilhouse: exactly. for me, the browser is the killer app01:18
Takwhat's 'it' ?01:18
tigertsince its the first handheld that has actually a browser I kinda feel like using01:18
Milhouseit's intangible :)01:18
soothsayWhy this device is useful01:18
tigertsure, its opera and.. duh.01:18
tigertbut still01:18
tigertit is not a cellphone crapola browser01:18
bertlmikesorry to be asking again: but did anyone with an actual n800 check the usb speed?01:18
Milhousemy primary use case is browsing - the 770 blows every other mobile device out of the water, bar a full blown laptop which is too heavy/too expensive/overkill for surfing on the move01:19
tigertMilhouse: exactly01:19
tigertMilhouse: you dont want to drag out even a X-series thinkpad in a bus01:19
Milhousenot if you want to keep it01:19
tigertbut I use the 770 nicely01:19
soothsayI think, if asked, most people wouldn't understand the difference between browsing the web on the 770 and a cellphone or PDA01:19
tigertsoothsay: until they try it01:19
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Milhousethat's when they "get it"01:20
timdougopera mini on a treo 650, actually, is a really good browser01:20
soothsayExactly. But good luck getting there.01:20
Milhouseit really also depends how much surfing they do - i use it every day01:20
MDKI wish gprs/3g was cheaper01:20
wasabi__killer app: maemo mapper01:20
timdougi use it to read wikipedia all the time01:20
wasabi__i bought me one of those nokia gps units01:20
wasabi__it completely rocks01:20
tigertMDK: you dont have to wish01:20
timdougnevertheless, i still want a N800.01:20
tigertMDK: a lot of others do01:20
wasabi__does the n800 have more ram?01:21
MDKi mean, when you start using gprs/3g regularly, there is no coming back01:21
wasabi__or host usb?01:21
mgedminwasabi_: yes, 128 megs, and 256 megs flash, and a 320 mhz cpu, and 2 full-size sd slots01:21
Milhousemy god wikipedia is a nightmare on 770 - i start by looking up one subject, then i'm branching off until I'm about 3 or 4 links down and 2 hours have disappeared :)01:21
soothsayAn Op should change the topic to include the specs01:21
Disconnectugh can't get it to unlock01:21
Disconnectpower select isn`t working01:21
wasabi__i really want host usb. =(01:21
tigertsoothsay: we have no ops01:21
Milhouseor a link to thoughtfix/chippy01:21
wasabi__anybody want to buy my n770? :)01:22
Milhouseum, nah01:22
Taksure, I've got $2001:22
wasabi__is the battery life on the 800 better?01:22
Milhouseok $2101:22
Disconnectsame battery01:23
MDKtigert: yes, i don't have to care... but the device would make much more sense (to people)7if high-speed 3g access was a comodity01:23
wasabi__MDK: it is in the US, for the most part.01:23
Takat least in major metro areas01:23
soothsaywasabi__: What are typical rates?01:23
tigertuntil mobile data is priced so that you dont need to worry how much it costs01:23
wasabi__Verizon has a $15 a month flat rate.01:23
tigertit wont fly off01:23
wasabi__For BT DUN through your phone.01:23
Milhouseif it's the OMAP2410 I understand that has power saving features that means it's roughly the same as the preivious version yet much more powerful. The extra RAM could have an impact though01:23
wasabi__CDMA and all,  but it's super fast.01:23
Disconnecttmob is $2001:24
soothsaywasabi__: Bullshit. Start watching videos constantly and see how fast they close your account or charge you for overage01:24
Disconnect(on an existing plan)01:24
MilhouseMost UK network providers will gouge you for internet access and that's only GPRS at best; T-Mobile have the best deals in the UK, and are beginning to roll out HSDPA slowly01:25
MDKsoothsay: i heard this01:25
Disconnectsoothsay: I moved a TON of data. tmob didn't care01:25
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soothsayDisconnect: About how much?01:25
tigertsoothsay: try internet radio :)01:25
WhizI'm currently paying 10 EUR/month of a 128kbps gprs/3g connection without any limitations of data transfer.. I think thats pretty reasonable. Only con is that I had to make a 12 month deal to get that price.01:25
Milhousetalking of which - is most excellent :)01:25
MDKDisconnect: player works on n80001:26
Disconnectgigs, during a roadtrip (4 weeks on the road, online the whole way. mix of laptop, 770 and phone - 9300i)01:26
MilhouseWhiz - thats not a bad deal01:26
MDKDisconnect: try using it as an ipod :)01:26
MilhouseI think T-Mobile is about 12.50 on top of a voice tarrif (no voip allowed)01:27
soothsayRadio is not that much bandwidth (depending on bitrate)01:27
Milhousewhich is what, 15-16 EUR?01:27
Milhousethats for unlimited transfer - most of the other UK network providers still charge per MB for crying out loud :(01:28
tigertsoothsay: 128kbps sounds reasonable01:28
tigerttoo bad 3G is not fully covered here01:28
tigertit drops to basic GPRS every now and then01:28
tigertand that doesnt quite keep up01:28
* sxpert gets free UMTS tv during the week ends for one year. so far, I'm not impressed :D01:29
MDKtigert: well, finland seems to well covered anyways01:29
MilhouseGPRS is awful though isn't it - about 60kbit/s tops01:30
soothsayAnybody have one of those portable fabric keyboards?01:30
MilhouseI use it, just about usable on sites without too many images01:30
WhizOne operator in finland just announced that it will be transforming all existing per MB billings to be billed by hour. so it doesnt matter how much you transfer but you will pay for the time that you've used the connection and if I understood right they have a minimum time of one hour. and it was something like 0,90 EUR/hour, so if you check your email 3 times a day with a pricing like that.. ...01:30
Whiz... you can imagine how large your bill will be in the end of month :)01:30
tigertMDK: yeah01:30
MDKWhiz: thats bad01:30
wasabi_My one complaint with teh n770, and maemo, is that I've been completley unable to sell anybody except geeks on it.01:31
Milhousethey'd be -1 customer here01:31
Disconnectwow camera is crap01:31
wasabi_The lack of PIM really makes it useless for most consumers.01:31
wasabi_And, so, I keep buying more smartphones for people. Alas.01:31
WhizMDK, I'm glad that I dont and never have used that operator.. 2bad that it is/was the most popular operator in finland.01:31
MilhouseA decent official PIM app would be good, despite what Nokia say01:31
wasabi_I suspect they're being careful to not take MS on.01:32
wasabi_Which sucks, because there is real demand.01:32
MDKWhiz: which one?01:32
timdougDisconnect: crappier than a cell phone camera? or what?01:32
WhizMDK, Sonera01:32
MilhouseBetter email app and synchronisation would sell a lot more devices01:32
Disconnecttimdoug: think 1995 cellphone cam01:32
tigertI think the nice pim app is google01:32
Milhousecalendar and to do list should cover most requirements01:33
tigerteven though it is scary too01:33
MDKWhiz: sonera is crap anyways01:33
Disconnector 1970-sowething color tv01:33
WhizMDK, (sorry, a column written in finnish)01:33
wasabi__We use MS smart phones + exchange... because they work awesomlly.01:33
Disconnectall sparkles and noise01:33
wasabi__I'd love to replace them with n800s using tinymail and contacts and dates.01:33
wasabi__but alas, it's not ready yet01:33
Milhousewasabi: shame about the rest of them :)01:33
Takthat is a good point @ tigert01:33
soothsayDisconnect: Can you post a pic?01:33
wasabi__Milhouse: Yeah, they suck for anything else.01:33
tigertwhat is good in google stuff, is your data is not in your laptop, or your handheld01:33
MDKwhen I arrived in finland, I stayed in radisson with sonera wifi01:33
Disconnectno capture app, just chat01:34
Milhousethe webcam is only vga (640x480) right?01:34
tigertbut its accessible by whatever device you might be using at the moment01:34
tigertat the same time its scary01:34
tigertbut it is very interesting01:34
wasabi__My CEO would go bonkers if he could have access to his exchange data on the 770, because I could also set up maemo mapper and stuff01:34
tigertsince when its "in the interent" it is very easy to share things01:34
Milhousegoogle - means you need to be online though01:34
wasabi__tigert: offline support is 100% required01:34
Milhousewhich may not always be possible01:34
tigertMilhouse: but you always are anyway01:34
wasabi__what Milhouse said01:34
tigertor want to01:34
Milhousei am01:34
tigertbut that is the point01:34
MDKi did a distro/laptop upgrade over it (around 600mb)01:34
Milhousebut that's just me :)01:34
tigertto be always online, so you can access your data01:34
soothsayI'm not01:35
wasabi__Sorry, that's not reality though.01:35
tigertI want to be01:35
tigertits not THAT far01:35
wasabi__Also, it's slow.01:35
wasabi__I'd rather have local contact data than have to download it as I access it01:35
tigertI am online all day when I am at work01:35
Milhousei think there will always be a case for offline support01:35
soothsaySyncing to Google apps would be okay01:35
MDK and managed to abuse the limits, since next day the wifi in the whole hotel dropped to like 1kb/s01:35
tigertI am online all the time I get from home to work01:35
wasabi__tigert: The market for smart phones aren't.01:35
tigertand from work to home01:35
tigertand I am online most of the time at home anyway01:35
MilhouseNokia + Google should be able to take on MS quite easily :)01:35
tigertso, its not THAT far01:36
Milhouseno hang on, Nokia + Google + T-Mobile - sorted01:36
tigertif one has a flatrate mobile data plan01:36
MilhouseT-Mobile do01:36
tigertit really is not THAT far fetched01:36
suihkulokkiwasabi__: have you tried dates?01:36
Milhousecould happen - lets hope it does!01:36
WhizMDK, :)01:37
wasabi__dates is nice, except it's not done looking01:37
suihkulokki"not done looking" ?01:38
Milhousethat's the thing - for geeks we can put up with half finished apps; the mass market want finished product01:38
wasabi__it doesn't sync in any meaningful way. it doesn't have UI to set up accounts.01:38
MDKnot to mention, that the device supports vpnc01:38
MDKat least cisco01:38
wasabi__if you want to use it against evo, you're in for a hassle simple because exch-evo is flakey.01:38
suihkulokkihave you reported your issues?01:39
tigertwasabi__: thats why I dont want to sync anything, I just want to use an interent datastore01:39
tigertthats why I hate email, but gmail is OK01:39
tigertall google conspiracy talk aside, thats not the point01:39
tigertbut the concept of data-on-the-net01:39
wasabi__I don't particularily mind that concept, but here in teh USofA, I am occassionaly not online.01:39
tigertit could be a good webmail I ran myself01:40
wasabi__Might be out of range of broadband connection.01:40
wasabi__Also, webmail sucks as an interface.01:40
tigertyeah, the 3rd world is sometimes like that01:40
Milhousefor me, i'd want to check contacts when I'm underground or in other places where I can't get a mobile signal01:40
* tigert ducks :)01:40
wasabi__or on a PLANE?01:40
wasabi__My boss writes email on the plain, in outlook, on his smartphone.01:41
wasabi__It sends as soon as he lands.01:41
tigertmost of the times you need to USE a contact though, its something you need a connection with anyway01:41
lleI want both, I want 100% of the data to available online AND offline01:41
tigertwasabi__: yea, but that is the point01:41
wasabi__Except for the email example I just gave. ;)01:41
Milhouseok - contact is a bad example, but thing to-do list, calendar, refer to an email01:41
tigertwasabi__: what is nice is automatically syncing tools that just work behind the scenes01:41
MDKwasabi__: one reason i use gmail is, because the ui doesn't suck01:41
wasabi__well, gmail isn't an answer.01:42
tigertusing some protocols and frameworks very unlike all linux apps we have01:42
wasabi__i can't get my company mail on it01:42
wasabi__so, we can forget about that01:42
tigertthat require a lot of setup01:42
Milhousequite often i'm on my way to work and want to check what i'm doing in the morning - sometimes i want to do that waiting for an underground train (no signal)01:42
MDKwasabi__: even compared to stand-alone apps01:42
tigertwasabi__: I am just happy that I cannot read my work mail for example now01:42
tigertits just stupid meeting requrest anyway01:42
tigertand other stupid crap01:42
tigertthat nobody cares about :)01:42
Milhousewaiting for the day when the b*stards give me a blackberry :(01:42
wasabi__Well, we can sit around and argue about it however we want. Outlook on a smart phone works really well imo01:43
tigertI am happy that I dont need to read it on my free time01:43
wasabi__and i'd love to sell n770's with foss in it's place01:43
tigert#maemo is more fun since I love the community01:43
tigertin a way its funny though01:44
tigertirc and geeks used to be "antisocial"01:44
tigertnow this IM etc is all so hip01:44
tigertyet it is essentially the same thing, reinvented01:44
MDKone interesting thing about 'data-on-the-web' concept is that it's more secure01:44
Milhouseanother example of people not "getting it"01:44
MDKor can be01:44
wasabi__heh. if it's more secure, it's an accident.01:44
MilhouseI used to use IM at work over 10 years ago... IM is ideal for large multinational companies but most still don't "get it"01:44
MDKsince when the device is stolen, the data is not01:45
wasabi__if my device can GET to the web, a thief can just take it01:45
tigertlaptop thefts are big problems nowadays yeah01:45
Milhouseor you quickly find another terminal, login and change your data store password - problem solved01:45
MDKwasabi__: you can protect stuf using password01:46
MDKie. mozilla keyring passwword01:46
Milhouseand don't forget the thief will spend the first few hours trying to make mobile phone calls on your Nokia, until the battery goes flat01:46
tigertMilhouse: "Damn, where's the phone in this thing???!?!!" :)))01:47
Milhouse"It's a Nokia, but it's got no keypad - wtf?!!!" :)01:47
MilhouseSold for £5 in a pub, no doubt01:47
MDKwhen somebody steals your outlook-enabled phone he gets your corporate email01:48
wasabi__you can encrypt it01:48
MDKwhich typically contains a lot of shamefull/interesting crap01:48
wasabi__at least on the new versions01:48
Milhouseunless you password protect it, he'll have it - encrypted or not. Password protection is a pain in the arse, though01:49
Milhousemaybe the N800 should have had a fingerprint or retinal scanner...01:49
wasabi__Think the new smart phones use PINs01:49
tigertrectal scanner? no wait, misread it01:49
wasabi__all the tablet PCs have finger print scanners now01:49
Disconnectset the pin01:49
* tigert ducks01:50
Milhousetigert - I had to double check it too :)01:50
Milhousepin is better, quicker to enter but still enough of a pain that some people won't bother with it. hardware recognition is probably the best bet long term01:50
tigert < wow01:50
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Milhousecheap now, reliable - no argument really01:50
gomiamhello, everyone.01:51
gomiamLet's hope I can make this question the way it should01:51
suihkulokkiactually this PIM discussion is quite off-topic01:51
wasabi__Milhouse: we mandate pins corporatlyt.01:51
Milhousethat's a good policy01:51
suihkulokkipeople seem to want a better PRODUCT, while this channel is about *community*01:51
Milhousecan we have both? :)01:52
MDKtigert: i had famous logitech keyboard for palm a while back, similiar textile concept01:52
MDKwas crapppy as hell01:52
Milhousewhat about that laser keyboard - any good?01:52
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Disconnectso.. any tips on the best way to set up a dev env for n800?01:52
c0ffeewait a few days until it's officially announced & supported01:53
tigertMDK: ok01:53
MilhouseDisconnect - are you going to be working on the RAID1 implementation? :)01:54
soothsayWhen does CES start?01:54
MilhouseThought it kicked off today01:54
MDKlogitech keycase01:54
Milhousespeeches and things01:54
MilhouseBill Gates closes the speeches tomorrow (Sun) apparenty01:54
gomiamI have had to reinstall 2006.2 a couple of times because, when installing extra applications (referred to in the Application Catalog), the 770 would enter a reboot cycle. Now it doesn't any more (I don't have all the apps I want installed yet, so I haven't lost hope:-), but it won't ask me for my code on startup. I have changed it a couple of times, and it works when I lock the device, but it doesn't when I power it off and on again (it did before it went bel01:54
gomiamsorry (didn't mean to make that text so long)01:55
MilhouseSpanning the filesystem across both SD slots (2GB each, or more) would be quite awesome for video and audio storage01:55
gomiamdoes anyone an idea about why it won't ask for my code, and/or how to sort it out?01:55
koendid I read 'gps' correctly?01:55
suihkulokkiDisconnect: no comments, but follow SardineGettingStarted01:55
Milhousegomiam: code? you want to be prompted for the lock (unlock) code on each boot?01:56
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gomiamit did at the beginning, but it doesn't after reflashing it.01:57
MilhouseI can't find a setting to enable that functionality01:58
myrenman it _fucking sucks_ the n800 does not have a gps.01:58
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tigertmyren: but it has bluetooth!01:59
nomisuh, why is that important?01:59
koennow I'm torn between the fic phone and the n80001:59
nomisbluetooth indeed.01:59
MilhouseNokia N800 + Nokia N95 could be good, if the N95 GPS works with BT devices01:59
myreni'm getting the fic too01:59
koennomis: bluetooth is &*W%&*#%# buggy on the 77001:59
tigertbtw, the nokia bluetooth gps has _insane_ battery life01:59
gomiamneither do I. Perhaps I'll need to ssh into it and find the configuration option :-/01:59
Disconnectmy gps sits in the mindow (etc) when i go places with iffy coverage.01:59
tigertfrom my experience01:59
myreni'm worried about BT gps devices01:59
tigertits crazy, I keep it on my jacket sleeve pocket and I forget it on01:59
Disconnectusing the tablet from a distance is kinda a pita ;)01:59
myrenits hard to tell which ones will have decent recievers02:00
tigertand it is just on after a week or so02:00
nomisdoes the N800 really already gets sold in the US?02:00
Disconnecti.trek m3 rocks02:00
Disconnectnomis: i've been hacking on one all day02:00
myrenDisconnect: how'd you get yours?  walk into compusa?02:00
nomisDisconnect: that was not my question  :)02:00
tigertmyren: yea, I bet there are gps'es and gps'es02:01
nomisIts funny because of the lack of announcements.02:01
tigertmyren: just because something happens to have a chip doesnt mean its actually a good one02:01
myrentigert: quite so02:01
wasabi__how much is the n800:02:01
MilhouseI think CompUSA droids have dropped the ball02:01
MilhouseI bet Nokia are pretty pissed02:01
Milhouse$400 @ CompUSA02:02
wasabi__ooh, steep.02:02
myrensurely its only a couple compusa's that have fucked up though, no?02:02
MilhouseI reckon it will be cheaper direct from Nokia02:02
myrenprobably not.  its what the 770 sold for originally.02:02
timdougwasabi__: less than other OLPC-esque devices02:02
myrenthere's a Crown coming out that could be competitive to the N80002:03
MilhouseThe 770 was available for $360 direct from Nokia, more expensive originally in CompUSA02:03
timdougerm, sorry, wrong term02:03
myren5 inch touch screen, runs Windows CE.02:03
wasabi__you mean the MS thing02:03
MilhouseWinCE - what resolution?02:03
tigertexactly my thought too02:03
tigertthe mylo is nice too, but the screen res makes it yet another cellphone web experience for browsing02:04
myrenlooking for specs on the crown again, hold please02:04
Milhousetigert: you answer for me when the specs are posted, ok? :)02:04
MDKmylo was a disappointment02:05
tigertMilhouse: I was talking about the screen res :)02:05
Milhouseyou seem to be reading my mind! :)02:05
tigertwell, the dpi matters02:05
MilhouseMylo seems to be more of a toy than a serious everyday device02:06
tigertit has sexy glowing leds :)02:06
MilhouseI want one!!!02:06
tigertbut its a gaming toy02:06
gomiamargh! Is there no diff package for 770?02:06
gomiamoh my02:06
myrenresolution not specified, but it includes touchscreen, gps.02:06
myreni like that its JUST screen02:06
myrenthe Crown Q5 i linked02:06
Milhouseit may be a toy, but it will look great sat next to my routers with all those glowing LEDs...02:07
Milhousealongside the PSP that never gets used anymore (though Ridge Racer was most excellent)02:07
Milhouse480x272 res02:07
myrenMilhouse: for what?02:08
wasabi__i'd sure like a n800/770 car mount of some sort02:08
MilhouseThe WinCE Cowon02:08
wasabi__or to be able to buy another cover02:08
myrenMilhouse: no, thats for the smaller one.02:08
tigertwasabi__: big blob of bluetac might work :)02:08
myrenMilhouse: thats the A3, not the Q5.  learn to read.02:08
Milhouseoh right02:08
Milhousemaybe i should read the whole thing :)02:08
tigertbluetack even02:08
myrenyeah i just look for keywords too02:08
wasabi__tigert: I wantd to build a mount for the 770 which connected it up to power and stuff02:08
wasabi__but that project got forgotten about02:08
Milhousedoesn't quote the res for the Q502:09
tigertwasabi__: I guess one could mould something around the device? :)02:09
myrenlike i said, resolution not specified02:09
myrenbut it looks like it could be a nice machine02:09
tigertand a connector plug02:09
myreni'd like to get a comparison on the cpu's02:09
tigertcharger plug even02:09
tigertit would be at least unique :)02:09
myrennot that we hae ANY idea what the n800's ARM6 cpu is02:09
myrenNOT 480x27202:09
myrenFOR FUCK SAKE02:09
koenmyren: omap or imx3102:10
MilhouseWinCE is a nightmare to support with different resolutions though, so I'd expect the Cowon Q5 to stick to one of the current resolutions rather than go non-standard02:10
myrenkoen: on the n800?02:10
MDKturn that res regexp off from your eyes02:10
Milhouseand current WinCE tops out at 640x48002:10
myrensurely its not an omap3?02:10
myreni'll go rob a compusa if thats what it takes to get one02:10
c0ffeemore looks like omap202:11
MilhouseI'd be surprised if Nokia didn't go with the OMAP241002:11
* myren nods02:11
Milhouseanyone got the output from uname?02:11
myreni want some omap3 hardware to play with02:12
Milhouseif the N800 uname -a includes omap, then it's an omap cpu02:12
myrenn95 is supposed to be omap3?  really?02:13
sxpertMilhouse, IIUC, it's an omap 24xx or something02:13
Milhousepossibly - thought i may have read that somewhere02:13
koenmyren: I suspect a 242002:14
myrenthat thing is going to have to be fat as hell, no?02:14
MilhouseOMAP2 :(02:14
myreni love the inquirer02:15
Milhouseabout the same size as the N73/N8002:15
MilhouseVery few details about the Cowon Q5 on the internet - Nokia could learn a trick or two from Cowon! :)02:17
myrenweird, i always parse than name as Crown02:18
myreni look at the word an it just gets re-combob-ulated into Crown02:18
myrenDisconnect: any way you can post a webcam capture from the N800 onto youtube or what not?02:19
myreni'd really like to see the video capture quality02:19
Milhouseyou'd lose so much quality in the flash conversion02:20
soothsayJust a still would be good02:20
myrenits a crying shame no one bothers to make really high sensitivity sensors anymore.  the low light condiitons get worse and worse it sseems.02:21
myrenthe best webcam money can buy hasnt been manufactured in four years02:22
gomiam(on with my quest;-) Does anybody know the name of the process that shows the unlock code window?02:22
gomiam(on the Nokia 770, that is)02:23
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DisconnectMilhouse: can't lose what you don't have02:29
Milhousetrue - not good then?02:29
chippy_John Tokash was king enough to send me a few pics hes just taken.
chippy_He said he'll do some better ones later.02:30
gomiamwell, I guess I'll have to live without being able to lock my PDA on poweroff. A pity, really.02:30
Milhousegomaim - should be an option at least. If it's definately not do-able, why not raise it as an ehancement in the bugzilla?02:30
Milhouseit seems a resonable request02:30
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gomiamactually, it worked when I first started to use the PDA02:31
gomiambut it hasn't since I reflashed it.02:31
Milhouseit's not a PDA! :)02:31
gomiamok, the palmtop02:31
gomiamwhatever :-P02:31
Milhouseinternet tablet :)02:31
Milhousenever seen an option to enable it, never had mine request the lock code on boot02:32
Milhousenot sure how you enabled it!02:32
gomiamah, then I must have done something fishy by mistake :-D02:32
Milhousedid you have OS 2005?02:32
gomiamno, I had the last version of 200602:33
gomiam(got the tablet last Thursday)02:33
Milhouseok - was thinking maybe it was an option in 2005 but disappeared in 200602:33
Milhouselordy the n800 is a bit lardy02:33
gomiamactually, when I reflashed it, the assistant told me I already had the latest version02:33
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Milhousemy pockets will be feeling fuller than usual...02:34
gomiamof course, since it only worked enough to reboot continuously, I went along with the reflash.02:34
gomiamand I haven't got that power-on lock code back since.02:34
gomiamTime to file a bug, I guess.02:34
gomiamdo these bugs get filed on the maemo bugzilla service?02:35
Milhouseif nobody can explain it here i think you should raise an enhancement request - if it's already there, you'll be told how to access it and if not it sounds like a useful security enhancement02:35
gomiamok, creating bugzilla account...02:35
gomiamerr.... querying existing bug reports first :-D02:36
MilhouseWhat's the default lock code?02:40
gomiamyup, but you won't get asked for it until you change it02:41
Milhousethanks - thought it was 4 digits02:41
gomiamthe tablet requires the code to be at least 5 digits long02:41
Milhousejust tried locking my device and it wanted the lock code before it would lock - never set the lock code but 12345 worked02:42
Milhouseah hang on02:42
Milhousein Control Panel -> Device Lock, what have you got?02:43
Milhousemine is disabled02:43
Milhousehave you tried setting a timeout - perhaps that auto-enabled the on boot lock?02:43
gomiamThat could work02:43
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gomiampowering off...02:44
gomiampowering on... and no go.02:44
Milhousehas it got past the hands?02:44
gomiamhey! it's back!02:44
Milhouseaha! :)02:45
gomiamwell, it's a start02:45
gomiamnow, let's see what happens when I disable it again02:45
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Milhousei bet you won't be asked for the lock code on boot02:45
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gomiamturning off,,02:46
Milhousei guess the device assumes a higher level of security once you enable the lock code after 5 minutes (or whatever) of inactivity, and decides you need the lock code on each boot02:46
Rotundsomeone geek me out on the N800 please02:46
Milhouseideally, the boot lock code should be a seperate checkbox option02:46
Milhouseumm, it's fab02:47
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Milhouse(me wants one, now)02:47
gomiamyup. I'll ask for that as an enhancement, if this auto-lock feature is required... yes, it is required that the tablet autolocks in order to get a lock code request on bootup02:47
gomiamtwisted way of doing it, if you ask me :-)02:47
DisconnectRotund: we've been doing that all day, you are late02:47
Milhouseit would just be a bit more flexible if it could be lock on boot only - i don't want to unlock every time i use it, just when the device is reset02:48
RotundI've been at work reading thoughtfix's blog02:48
* Disconnect has been here, generating content :)02:48
RotundStill armel?  The current packages work on it?02:48
gomiambtw, has anybody else tried kismet on this tablet?02:49
Milhousemost of them should - OS 2007 seems to be based on Bora02:49
Disconnectyes, not really02:49
Milhousekismet - yes, it's fine02:49
gomiamit was what originated all this problem, actually.02:49
Milhousedid have some issues with ghost networks but that was fixed a few months back02:49
gomiamit left my wifi card in an unknown state, so it wouldn't reconnect02:49
gomiamand... when I restarted, it got into a boot cycle02:49
Milhouseit does that - reboot02:49
Milhousebtscanner can also stuff up the bluetooth requiring a reboot :(02:50
Milhouseah, not good - most odd02:50
gomiamnah, I'm afraid it will be a long time until I touch kismet again02:50
gomiamthen again, I had installed several apps at the same time02:50
gomiamperhaps it was something else02:50
gomiamoh, now I remember02:50
gomiamI installed bash-m02:50
gomiamin order to have a workable shell02:51
gomiamand set it up as the base shell for root and user02:51
gomiamand now I don't have it set up02:51
MilhouseI reckon Kismet might be in the clear!02:51
gomiamand it doesn't barf02:51
gomiambut it certainly is a PITA having to deal with the busybox shell because trying to install a whole bash will make apt try to uninstall things like "base-system" and the like :-(02:52
gomiam(the GUI installer won't even let me try)02:53
Disconnectthe gui is sometimes very wise02:54
pokute_Hmm. So the mplayer didn't work on 800? Hope it gets fixed soon.02:55
pokute_Well, the processing power should be enough to run a 800*480 resolution xvid... and THAT's an archievement.02:55
MilhouseWMA may be possible now it's got hardware fp02:56
gomiammilhouse, are you talking about mplayer on the 770?02:56
Milhouse(not that i particularly care about that format...)02:56
Milhousemplayer on the N800 - the latter has hardware floating point, the WMA codec uses floating point and isn't a realistic option on a device without hardware floating point02:58
Milhouseso unless someone ports a WMA codec using integer math you probably won't see WMA support on 77002:58
Milhouseno big loss though02:58
JaffaMilhouse: By "WMA" you mean "WMV", shurely? OS 2006 supports WMA (i.e. *a*udio) already.02:59
gomiamtrue. I wouldn't use WMA anyway02:59
gomiam(nor WMV)02:59
gomiamthat's what ffmpeg, mencoder and MediaCoder are for :-)02:59
MilhouseJaffa - maybe, memory is hazy, thought Serge was referring to WMA on ITT a few weeks back03:00
JaffaAnyway, bed time.03:00
MilhouseThis was for mplayer - WMA may be supported on the standard video/audio player (using undisclosed DSP ops?)03:01
gomiambtw, does anyone know a way to convert between LDIF and VCard 3.0?03:01
gomiam(without Perl and the like)03:01
gomiamit would be even better if I had a way to know how to use gpesyncd, but that's what the manuals are for :-)03:02
Milhousemy bad - Serge was talking about AAC and AC3 audio being FP intensive. Ignore all of the above...03:02
gomiamAAC and AC3 work on FP?03:02
gomiamthat makes me wonder?03:02
MilhouseSerge: "Also unfortunately MPlayer on Nokia 770 has problems with AAC and AC3 audio (they are either buggy or unusable because of floating point math being too slow). We need to either find and use integer only decoders for them or use DSP based gstreamer decoder for AAC."03:03
MilhouseAAC is just another proprietary format so much the same applies as WMA - I wouldn't use it03:04
gomiamerm... another question. Where does the Video clips folder lie?03:04
soothsayAAC isn't any more proprietary than mp303:04
timdougerm, not so much as WMA... "AAC was developed with the cooperation and contributions of companies mainly including Dolby, Fraunhofer (FhG), AT&T, Sony and Nokia, and was officially declared an international standard by the Moving Pictures Experts Group in April 1997."03:04
MilhouseIn /home/user/MyDocs/.videos03:05
gomiamoh, found it :-D03:05
timdoug"no licenses or payments are required to be able to stream or distribute content in AAC format"03:05
wasabi__what about encoding?03:06
pokute_Oh, by the way, what's the version of flash&opera on 800?03:06
gomiam(checking Discovery.avi codecs...)03:06
Milhouseok my misunderstanding - I thought it was proprietary. What about decoding - are the specs free?03:06
Milhouseopera 8.5503:06
pokute_And I think there might be a gstreamer aac support.03:06
Milhouseopera 8.503:06
timdoug"However, a patent license is required for all manufacturers or developers of AAC codecs. [4] It is for this reason FOSS encoders and decoders such as FAAC and FAAD [2] are distributed in source form only, in order to avoid patent infringement."03:06
gomiamis there a Flash update for the 770?03:06
Milhouseapprently so03:06
ssvbwell, it just easier to develop audio codecs using floating point, fixed point decoders are also possible (but almost nobody cares to develop them as most desktop pc have fpu anyway)03:06
Milhousenot sure what version of flash, but it seems to be playing youtube vids03:07
pokute_ Flash version checker...03:07
ssvbso ffmpeg has some decoders implemented using floating point only03:07
Milhousei thought ogg used integer decoding?03:07
gomiammmm... my tablet won't play youtube videos, certainly :-)03:07
ssvbMilhouse: for mp3 and ogg (actually vorbis) both floating point and fixed point decoders are available03:08
pokute_ssvb: I really hope that 770/800 has a good AAC+ support, the quality/bitrate is incredible. :-)03:09
gomiamargh, Linux
Milhousegomiam: thats on your 770 though?03:09
pokute_So ARM Linux flash is still version 6. :-(03:10
pokute_Oh, on 770...03:10
gomiamI already knew it didn't play Flash videos03:10
Milhousei think youtube may require flash 8 which was never released on Linux, so if it now works on the N800 it might be Flash 903:10
timdoug"YouTube's video playback technology is based on Macromedia's FlashPlayer 7 and uses the Sorenson Spark H.263 video codec."03:11
Milhousebollox... time for sleep i'm just talking shite tonight :)03:11
timdoughaha, i don't mean to be pedantic or anything, sorry03:11
Milhouseso the n800 could have flash 7 - that would be pants03:11
* pahartik rejects "flash", has removed that library package from Nokia 770 by "dpkg --purge"03:11
pokute_:-D pahartik, there should be some easier way to disable&enable it. :-)03:12
gomiamRMS would be proud03:12
MilhouseWe need Disconnect to visit the flash player version check link...03:13
gomiamyet another news tidbit: the Discover.avi video on the 770 is a DIVX+MP3 one.03:13
pahartikpokute_: I got rid of proprietary code I never plan on using...03:13
Milhousehow does your 770 work at all then? ;)03:13
Milhouseah, i guess you do use the nokia stuff!03:13
gomiamon crutches, Milhouse, on crutches :-P03:13
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gomiaminstalling maemo-gaim... (crosses fingers)03:14
Milhousei wonder if the N800 screen has the sparkely/moire effect present on the 770?03:14
gomiammoiré? I can't see that on the 77003:15
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Milhouseit's particulalry noticeable when the screen is dirty (greasy fingermarks)03:15
Milhousegives it a sparkely appearance03:16
Milhousepossibly due to the touchscreen overlaying the lcd03:16
gomiamwell, I only see the fingermarks, and that's when reflecting a light on the screen :-)03:17
pahartikpokute_: "flash" is not available for me on desktop workstation either... I do not use wintel Linux and my default browser is Lynx anyway... not that I would want it to be available either... :)03:17
gomiampahartik, even if it is a free software version?03:17
arji was wondering if anyone has ported gaim 2.0 to n770. I cold only find the old version03:17
gomiamnah, it seems 2.0 isn't ported yet. But I'll check the gaim site, just in case03:18
danguyIs gaim 2 even out yet?03:18
gomiamit's till in 2.0.0beta503:18
gomiambut it works quite well on my laptops03:19
danguyWell, I have been using gajim, so I have not been paying much attention.03:19
danguyI recall that beta1 was not so stable...03:19
Milhouseoh wow, apparently there's a blue led around the d-pad which can pulse when new information (email? rss? who knows) is available - very Nintendo Wii... :)03:19
gomiamdanguy: 2.0.0beta5 has given me _no_ problems (beta4, instead, barfed on MSN)03:20
danguyDoes anyone recommend a specific folding bt keyboard?03:21
gomiamthere seems to be no porting effort on gaim 2 yet.03:22
gomiamheh, I'm updating the sources.list file through ssh while installing other apps through the GUI installer. Perhaps I really deserve to get the tablet bricked from time to time >:-)03:26
gomiamwell, it's late. I'll go to bed, and perhaps tomorrow I'll have the tablet configured as I want :-)03:27
gomiamthanks for the help, and good night to all.03:28
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* pahartik would like to get small Bluetooth keyboard, but has not found anything really attractive03:29
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wasabi__Milhouse: I found a nokia su-8w03:42
wasabi__it's kinda sucky, but it's as small as the 770 itself03:42
pahartikwasabi__: if it was HID device... it might be attractive :)03:44
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MilhouseThere's the Stowaway Sierra - works fine with the 770 but is a bit on the heavy side once it's closed up (has a metal case/cover)03:45
MilhouseSomeone posted about a fabric keyboard, I've heard the laser-based virtual keyboard also works fine with the 770. Depends on what your requirements are - size, weight, portability, usability...03:46
wasabi__pahartik: It is.03:52
wasabi__It's a bluetooth keyboard.03:52
wasabi__Wait, what do you mean by HID?03:52
danguyHuman Interface Device03:53
wasabi__it's a keyboard, of course it is. ;)03:53
danguyHID is one of the bluetooth profiles03:54
danguyI guess that pahartik is saying that it uses a proprietary protocol.03:54
MilhouseThe alternative to HID is SPP  - Bluetooth Serial Port Profile03:55
pahartikdanguy: yes, I have been told that Nokia SU-8W is not Bluetooth HID (profile) device03:56
MilhouseStowaway Sierra is HID - worked without any problems with the 770 Bluetooth plugin03:56
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jaebirdAnybody got an N800 yet?04:31
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danguypahartik: This story claims that the SU-8W does support Bluetoth HID:
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jaebirdDoes the N800 have an IR blaster?04:39
pahartikdanguy: oh, document at Nokia site says that too ("")... hmmm... maybe I have misunderstood something04:43
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danguyRegardless, I'll get the Stowaway.04:47
TakI'm getting the stowaway as well04:58
danguyDoes the SD in the N800 support SDIO?04:58
danguyBecause an SDG-811 would be awesome.
danguySure, Linux kernel support is laking, but the project does exist.05:00
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jtokash800 vs 770 photos:
nomisdanguy: wouldn't a bluetooth gps mouse be way simpler?05:14
Takit's like they're making love05:15
Takvery incestuous05:17
nomispahartik: btw. The Nokia 770 can *only* use HID bluetooth keyboards.05:25
pahartiknomis: as I understand it, HID keyboards need "hidd" of BlueZ, other keyboards need some special application...05:42
nomispahartik: hidd comes with the 770, you just need to install a small applet to be able to easily activate it.05:56
wasabi_... the n770 works witht the nokia su-8w05:56
wasabi_which, apparently, according to people here, isn't a HID keyboard05:56
Takit's listed on the bt hid plugin page as a hid kb05:57
wasabi_so they were wrong. :)05:57
* Tak shrugs05:57
nomiswasabi_: the su-8w is HID.05:57
pahartiknomis: basically to start "hidd --search", I assume05:57
nomispahartik: probably.05:58
jtokashso I just turned my n800 on for the first time06:09
jtokashI HATE that they put the maximize button in between the two zoom buttons06:10
myreni really hope compusa has some left tomorrow06:10
myrenor has any at all06:10
timdougjtokash: i'm sure you'll be able to remap them somehow06:11
Takheh, I probably won't be able to justify getting one for a while06:11
jtokashI don't remember seeing anything to remap keys on the 770, but you might be right06:11
myrenTak: got a 770?06:12
myrenwell then.  :)06:12
myreni've been putting off the 770 explicitly for this model.  i thought i had another month or two to wait.06:13
Takyeah, I remember talking to you about that recently06:13
jtokashbummer, google reader is still crap on the 80006:13
timdougjtokash: is the new(er) version of opera any faster or better?06:14
jtokashit does seem faster06:15
jtokashI heard youtube works now06:15
Takprobably the cpu helps06:15
jtokashheading there now to test06:15
timdougand 2x the RAM06:16
jtokash3 guesses which video I'm starting with06:16
jtokashlazy sunday06:16
jtokashless than 1 frame per second06:16
jtokashbut the audio is pretty good06:17
timdougdoes it stay in sync?06:17
jtokashsort of I guess.  Hard to tell when the video only updates once per second06:18
jtokashtrying a linerider video now06:18
jtokashnot much better06:18
myreni wonder what the compression is on flash videos06:18
jtokashmaybe 2 fps06:18
myrenit seems like xvid has to be somewhat competitive06:18
myrenand we know that xvid actually works06:19
jtokashthe screen feels much less soft than the 770's06:19
Taksure, but the xvid codecs are heavily optimized for the dsp06:20
jtokashIf we could run the flashplayer stand alone, I wonder if it would be faster06:20
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NickDeso n800 available next week/tuesday?06:22
NickDeI've been reading aroumd at maemo and the usual sites06:22
jtokashI don't see a way to take a picture with the camera06:22
jtokashthat's odd06:23
jtokashavailable now at compusa06:23
jtokashsome of us bought them today06:23
NickDereally available or some compusa's have sold them early when they werent supposed to?06:23
NickDeif its really available I'll head down to compusa tomorrow and pick mine up if its instock06:23
NickDebut its not on the compusa website I cant check stock06:23
jtokashI just went in and asked for it. Their national hotline told me they were available at all stores in my area06:24
danguyToo bad there is no CompUSA here in Canada :(06:24
NickDeI'll be at CES next week myself06:24
NickDehopefully with one of these in tow06:24
NickDetomorrow I'll check my local compusa06:24
NickDedo you have a compusa SKU for it or anything?06:24
NickDeI'd like to search their website just for the hell of it to see if I can check stock locally06:24
jtokashI did have it06:25
jtokashit was 6 digits06:25
jtokashLet me check my receipt06:25
NickDecool thanks06:25
NickDedid it come with an OS2007? or just the latest release of maemo?06:25
jtokash344047, according to the receopt06:26
NickDeeh nothing on their website06:27
TakI'm interested to see how fceu and vba perform06:27
jtokashsays bora in the application manager06:27
danguyOk, so where exactly is the outer SD slot? I cannot locate it in the pictures.06:27
NickDejtokash: thanks for the info and heads up.. I'll be back here tomorrow hopefully with mine in hand :)06:28
jtokashbottom right edge, danguy06:28
jtokashcool, good luck NickDe06:28
NickDeand then I'll bring it to CES with me and show it off a little :P06:28
jtokashlaptop battery dying.  I'll be on later.06:29
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Rotundanyone notice how many 770s are on ebay right now?07:13
Rotundgrrr... I just bought my 770 in December07:13
revthe 880 is coming out07:28
revso mayhap that is why07:28
revwhat's the problem? i mean, do you want to get rid of yours or something?07:29
Tak800 is out07:29
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jtokashdoes anyone want to try running the theme that comes with the 800 on a 770?08:46
jtokashIf so and if you know which files I need to copy off, I'd be happy to get them to you.08:46
jtokashhaha! When you try to go to the tableteer website from the N800, you get an auth screen.  So, they clearly weren't expecting people to have them so soon.09:15
jtokashwoah, that's nice!  When you have multiple browser windows open, they become a submenu of the open task list09:18
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ircleuserHeya guys... my first time joining09:20
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N800Userany of you guys have the new N800?09:20
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N800Userhi mlpug...09:22
N800Useryou got the n800?09:22
mlpugno i dont09:22
mlpugcan you donate one for me?09:22
N800Userhmm...  i can hardly afford one myself.09:23
N800UserI am trying to get xterm on the n800...09:23
N800Userbut it doesnt seem to work for this distro09:23
jtokashI have the n80009:25
jtokashI haven't tried to put an xterm on it09:25
jtokashDisconnect had it installed earlier09:25
jtokashbut I don't know what steps he took09:25
N800Userhmm...  I wonder if he just used the application manager to install it09:26
rabelaisdoes it have a SIP client, or telepathy-sip?09:26
jtokashI don't know09:26
N800Userj tokash:  you get it at compusa?09:26
jtokashI think it's just still google tak09:26
jtokashN800User, yep09:26
N800Usersame here09:26
jtokashIs it me or does it seem like the screen is a lot less squishy than the 770?09:27
N800UserI bought a 770 about 3 weeks ago from compusa for 350( with a 100 rebate) and did not open it...  waiting for the 870 to come out...09:27
N800Usertoday was my last day to return it... and I log into internettablettalk today and everyone was talking about the 80009:28
sxpertN800User, less squishy ?09:28
N800UserI never really got to use the 77009:28
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jtokashsxpert, when you press down on the 770 screen with your stylus, there is give09:28
N800Useroh.. you mean when you press on it with the pen...09:28
jtokashThere is no give on the 80009:28
N800Useryes... I think it is more solid.. if that is what you mean.09:29
sxpertjtokash, ah, and the screen on the 800 is more stiff ? good, I've always been afraid of pushing too hard and breaking that screen09:29
N800UserI still have the plastic cover on my screen09:30
jtokashalso, sxpert, you know how the interface is supposed to change on the 770 when you press down with a finger instead of a stylus?09:30
jtokashThat NEVER worked for me09:30
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jtokashOn the 800, it works right off the bat09:30
sxpertjtokash, your fingers are too thin09:30
sxpertthey probably use a different touch screen tech I spose09:30
jtokashcould be, but it works on the 800 for whatever reason09:30
N800UserNeat, I did not know that.  I keep on using the square button the the left side to get the keyboard09:31
rabelaisprobably because there is less give on the screen09:31
jtokashI wonder if you can control the blue glow in the dpad with software09:33
sxpertprobably depends on the electronics09:34
N800Useryou guys use the bluetooth keyboard?  which brand?  stowaway or nokia?09:35
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jtokashI have the stowaway09:38
jtokashhaven't used it with the n800 yet09:39
jtokashworks great with the 77009:39
jtokashI don't like that the mini usb port and the external sd port are hidden by the new stand09:41
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kakosSo, lots of news about the N800.  Does anyone know if the miniUSB connection is powered or still we do need to hack power injectors to get USB host capabilities?09:43
jtokashthere is a control panel for keyboard (non bluetooth)09:43
keesjjtokash,  is the stand removable?09:43
kakosOh, hey.  Thanks for all the info, John.  :)09:43
jtokashit says hardware keyboard09:43
kakosDo you, by chance, have the cables to see if it works?09:44
jtokashunder that dialog it lets you choose between nokia su-8w, itech vkb and generic 105 key pc09:44
jtokashkakos, let me think abou that for a second09:44
jtokashI don't think I have a male mini usb to a female large usb09:45
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kakosI guess I'm going to have to go to CompUSA and see if I can get one09:47
kakosDid you have to do anything special to get it?09:47
kakosBribe them to let you have one early?09:47
jtokashI took the sku09:47
kakosWhat is the SKU?09:47
N800Userwhere I am at... they have it right next to the 770 in the display cabinet...09:47
jtokashalso, I told them that their national availability/pricing hotline said that they had them in stock09:47
jtokashthey had to go in the back, but they didn't fight me09:48
kakosIt should be six digits09:49
kakosOh, that is09:49
kakosSorry, I read the 7 as a ?09:49
jtokashI thought I was losing it for a second09:49
jtokashI was like: But that is 6 digits.  .... erm, isn't it?09:50
kakosSo, here's the important question09:50
jtokashI don't think cpu is 2x as fast09:50
kakosDo you think it's worth buying?09:50
jtokashI think it's much less of a jump than that09:50
kakosWell, they are called BOGUS MIPS for a reason09:50
jtokashsome of the things that take long on the 770 still take long on the 80009:51
kakosOh, another question09:51
jtokashFor me, the improvements that matter are:09:51
kakosDoes the email application still blow chunks?09:51
jtokash1. the stand is really nice09:51
jtokash2. Flash compatability has improved (although that will be backported, I'm sure)09:51
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jtokash3. the 2 SD slots are really nice to have09:52
jtokash4. (I'm starting to stretch here) the sound is much better09:52
RotundI just want a contacts program that lets me put in phone numbers!09:52
jtokash5. Any speed and memory improvements are welcome09:52
qgilhi jtokash & co, did you go to sleep or have you been playing around the whole time?  :)09:52
jtokashIt's only approaching midnight here, so I've been up throughout09:53
qgilah well09:53
kakosIf you could test the email app, that would be awesome09:53
jtokashRotund, kakos, I don't use the email app09:53
kakosI hope they've at least done /something/ with it09:53
N800UserI wish they had java...  hopefully it is only a matter of time09:54
Rotundyou like the new stylus better?09:55
jtokashRotund, definitely09:56
klaatuso when is someone going to take a N800 apart and shoot some hardware porn...09:56
kakosIt's idiotic that the 770 doesn't have java support for that matter09:57
kakosThe processor they have in there has a Jazelle unit which supposedly can execute bytecode natively rather than having to use a virtual engine09:57
Rotundreally?  that's cool09:58
RotundI'd prefer them implement python support that way though09:58
jtokashkakos, you want to take control of my n800 to see if email has changed?09:58
jtokashI installed vnc09:58
RotundI just personally avoid java09:58
jtokashI'll make the router change, one sec09:58
kakosBTW, do all the applications still work fine?09:59
Rotundany news on when/if the OS upgrade will hit the 770?09:59
jtokashI've only installed x11vnc and iphome09:59
kakosI'm not sure how much I can see without setting up an account, which I don't want to do on another person's device.  ;)09:59
jtokashRotund, not that I've heard09:59
kakosBut I'd like to give it a little test run, if you don't mind09:59
jtokashIt's bora, though, which they've said is coming to the 77009:59
jtokashsure, let's do that in pm10:00
kakosRotund, I'm guessing it'll be officially released when they officially release the N80010:00
Rotundokay.  that's good (is that sardine?)10:00
N800UserI am trying to get xterm installed.  It is failing for me, but it seems Disconnect got it running.10:00
Rotundherring I mean10:00
kakosIt is not sardine or herring, I don't believe10:00
Rotundherring is bora +1 then?10:00
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jtokashyes, herring is beyond bora10:01
jtokashsardine is the stable herring10:01
jtokashor vice versa10:01
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Rotundvice versa10:01
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Rotundherring = more stable10:01
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kakosHow's the lack of a hard case?10:03
kakosOh, and does Canola work on it?10:03
qgilRotund: The current stable release of Maemo is 2.1, codename Scirocco. The upcoming major release of Maemo will be 3.0, codename Bora.10:04
desrty'all have bad codenames :)10:05
Rotundqgil: are you Quim?10:05
qgilyes, that's my codename  :)10:05
desrthorrible codename!10:05
Rotundlove your blog.  usually very interesting10:05
desrtqgil; i've asked a question in here a few times when you're not around and get no answer... maybe you know10:06
desrthow do i make an icon appear on the task switcher?10:06
qgilI believe Maemo's codenames make more sense for people leaving by the (Mediterranean) sea10:06
qgil(well, no scirocco in the Med)10:06
qgilRotund: thanks! so it's you the reader my logs detect!10:07
* desrt chuckles10:07
Rotundusually just on planet gnome10:07
desrtqgil; you don't get logs for your readers10:07
desrtqgil; for exactly that reason :)10:08
Rotundanyone going to be at PyCon?10:08
qgilwell yes, from time to time I post a picture that just shows up as a thumbnail in the Planets and then I get a better idea about how many people read the concatenated words I happen to write10:09
qgildesrt: I'm not the best person to answer developers' questions - have you tried in the mailing list?10:09
qgildesrt: does help you?10:14
desrtno.  i don't think so.  and this is why:10:16
Rotundany big changes in Bora?  it won't be as big as 2.0 was (at least from the programming standpoint), right?10:16
desrti thought it might have something to do with my complete lack of .desktop file, but i tried launching another app manually (not using its .desktop) and it still got its icon10:17
desrtit's quite odd10:17
qgildesrt: then you need someone more clever than me10:17
desrti see how it is.10:18
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kakosContacts application can now accept phone numbers10:25
Rotundis Contacts the Opened Hand Contacts?10:25
Rotundvorbis support in there by default yet?10:26
qgilRotund: about changes in Bora -->
kakosIt's the same ol' contacts10:26
Rotundjust saw that Quim10:27
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Rotundkakos how's the mail app?10:32
kakosHaven't played with it too much10:32
kakosI don't have a throw away POP or IMAP account I want to use on John's N800.10:32
kakosI'm sure you're a great guy, John, but I don't know you too well to temporarily put my business account on there10:33
jtokashI have a gmail account I can set to pop and put on there.10:33
jtokashone sec10:33
RotundI want some tinymail love =)10:34
kakosI wonder how the other guy managed to get xterm running10:37
* qgil comes back from some web browsing10:40
qgilapparently the #maemo IRC channel has got a good promotion10:41
kakosJohn, I know how you can get XTerm working10:41
N800Userhow do you get xterm working?10:42
qgilI'm sure tko has some ideas in mind to promote this space in a clever way - and I'm sure you too10:42
N800UserI have been trying to get it to work for the past day10:43
kakosAdd this repository:10:43
kakosDistro: bora10:43
kakosComponent: main10:43
N800Userdid you just add that to maemo-hackers?10:44
kakosI didn't10:45
kakosI was looking through their repository and they add a bora section already set up10:45
kakosDoesn't work10:45
N800Userjtokash said that Disconnect had got it working10:46
kakosHe obviously had it working since he got all the info from the proc file system10:46
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kakosYou can close applications from the list that pops up when you click on the >> in the task part of the side bar.10:47
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kakosWell, it looks like they did indeed make changes to the Email app10:52
kakosNot sure the extend to which they improved/fixed it10:52
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kakosFor the brave:
kakosThat would be the downlaod for bora for the Nokia 77011:13
kakosOr... theoretically, that is what that is11:13
tkoqgil, I'm thinking we should finish the website reorg first, IIRC getting in contact was better organized there and we could get #maemo more visible11:14
tkoI also just had a thought to include the current topic and number of users somewhere close by :)11:15
jtokashI don't know if the load applet still looks at the right info, etc.11:15
qgiltko 1. yes! 2. cool!11:15
tkoand URL catcher maybe11:15
jtokashwhile x11vnc is running, the load is empty for the load applet11:15
kakosOh, damn11:15
kakosThat URl doesn't work after all11:16
jtokashthat would indicate that cpu is much beefier11:16
jtokasheven though it doesn't seem like it to me11:16
kakosIt just gives you a file which says it wasn't found11:16
inzN800, the bora in maemo-hackers is built against herring, so it might be too new or something, I'll have to wait for the maemo bora launch to make proper versions...11:17
inzOops, left already11:17
qgiltko: who is in control of this channel (i.e. who decides and can change the topic)11:17
inzwhatever =)11:17
inz11:17 oOo Topic set by Toni [] [Mon Aug 28 21:21:33 2006]11:17
jtokashsomeone asked me earlier if the stand could be removed11:18
jtokashseems like it... the stand is held in place by star screws11:18
tkoqgil, toni created this, I should have chanserv permissions if I can remember the password..11:19
qgilright, just curious11:19
qgilthe topic was intriguing me since the first day I joined  ;)11:19
tkoI wouldn't object having the topic settable by all11:20
qgilnor me11:20
qgilanyway, as you say not that relevant compared to website reorg11:21
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tkooh bugger, chanserv recognizes me with different hostmask - one which I can't access anymore :-(11:26
suihkulokkiit would seem c0ffee is the most awake one of those with access to #maemo on chanserv11:28
tigertlilo might have been able to help too but.. :(11:30
c0ffeei'm awake11:30
tigertcaffeine never sleeps!11:30
c0ffeewhat should i do?11:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o c0ffee11:32
tkoc0ffee, setting the channel mode to +n would be nice11:32
c0ffeeit is +n11:33
tkook, -t then11:33
tigert-t I guess11:33
*** c0ffee sets mode: -t 11:34
tkoc0ffee, you might want to do that on chanserv or it'll restore +t some day11:34
tkonot sure, though11:34
*** tigert changes topic to "liian hapokasta"11:34
tigertit works!11:34
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inzThis was the last place I expected to run into Cola-Olli11:35
tkothank tigert11:36
c0ffeetko, i think chanserv only does this if mode-lock is on11:36
*** c0ffee sets mode: -o c0ffee11:36
qgilthis was "May I have another cup of tea, please?" in Suomi, isn't it?11:36
tigertinz: :) just change the topic11:37
tkoc0ffee, could be. it's been years since I've had any contact with chanserv before11:37
tigertit was just a test to see if it works11:37
tigertqgil: no11:37
qgili know i know11:37
*** tigert changes topic to "your ad here, call 0800-MAEMO"11:37
inztigert, I'll refrain from doing it, and just keep my term window appropriately below the top panel...11:37
qgilno need to post again those bizarre northern european videos  ;)11:37
suihkulokkihowabout some japanese videos then?11:38
roope  :)11:38
JaffaMorning, all11:39
tigertroope: check the url I posted a bit earlier11:40
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*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet | Good questions deserve better answers | Chill conversation for tableteers is welcome as well |"11:42
qgilwho's next11:42
tkohmm, 500..700 hits for n800 in technorati and google blogsearch and it hasn't even been announced11:43
inzI'd say that topic is a tad too long11:43
kakosSo, in the bin files for the 770 updates, anyone have any idea what the "PR", "F5", and "MR0" mean?11:44
qgiltko: I bet those hits refer to
*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome |"11:45
tkoqgil, umm, no, batteries are not that interesting :)11:46
tkoand the title is often 'Nokia N800 specs' .. can't be bothered figuring out what's the original11:46
tkounboxing is popular as well :)11:47
qgilsomeone wrote somewhere that it was amazing that no video had appeared yet - indeed11:47
sitisomeone should get 2 n800s and then record one of them using the webcam ;)11:48
qgilor a mkirror if you are into low-tech11:49
jtokashwhat's stupid is that there is no video or photo recording solution for the 80011:49
jtokashonly video conf11:49
sitiok :(11:49
jtokashI'll give you a video right now11:49
jtokashwhat do you want to see?11:49
qgilI'm curious about your garden11:50
jtokashWell it's mostly weeds11:50
qgilthat's why!  :)11:50
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jtokashnot THAT kind of weeds....11:50
jtokashOK, I'll make a video11:50
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jtokashHi disconnect11:51
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jtokashSee what you started?11:51
qgiljtokash: don't get me wrong, I was talking about
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kakosHey, Disconnect11:53
Jaffajtokash: hopefully there'll be enough of an API (perhaps even gstreamer) to allow recording s/w to be written as OSS11:53
kakosHow'd you get xterm running on your N800?11:53
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keesjperhaps just installing ssh is essayer?12:04
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jtokashI'm making a video.  Any requests?12:11
JaffaBoot up, loading Opera, going to YouTube.12:12
jtokashwill do12:12
JaffaBoot up, open applications menu, poke about; open control panel, poke about.12:12
JaffaThat kind of thing are what people are going to want to see.12:12
kakosWell, bed time12:13
kakosNight everyone12:13
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JaffaAleksandyr: you retiring your 770?12:15
pahartikhas someone succeeded on playing audio with "gst-launch" on Nokia 770?  what kind of pipeline is needed?12:16
AleksandyrJaffa, wow, news travels fast12:17
AleksandyrJaffa, but yes12:17
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inzoo, bold comma, haven't seen that for a while =)12:19
Aleksandyrawww, what did I miss when I went from broken to non-broken client12:19
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jtokashediting video now12:25
jtokashMicrosoft Movie Maker12:25
kakosJohn, can you open files in the /etc tree?12:26
saispomaemo livecd for mistral exist or not ?12:28
JaffaAleksandyr: just saw your post on the ITT forums. Did you ever find the scripts you used to package classpath etc, btw?12:28
AleksandyrJaffa: Hmm, nothing really complicated went in there: I don't believe I modified classpath at all12:29
AleksandyrJaffa: or JamVM, or Jikes --- it was kind of tricky getting Scratchbox to use the host Jikes to do the compiles.12:30
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* Jaffa just can't be arsed faffing about with Debian build scripts if someone's already done the work ;-)12:30
* Jaffa fancied trying to patch classpath to auto-Hildonise apps.12:30
Aleksandyrpffft, learn to stop worrying and love the dhmake12:30
Aleksandyr...I do believe I've forgotten the name of the program.12:31
AleksandyrI will crack open my reiser partition and find that for you while I'm messing about tonight.12:31
Aleksandyr(err, this morning.)12:31
AleksandyrI do like the auto-hildonization concept. Opens a giant can of HCI worms, of course12:34
AleksandyrLocated. I honestly can't remember the package make command, but it's all there12:38
Aleksandyronce the copy finishes, where would you like it?12:38
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JaffaAleksandyr: please, - TIA12:52
jtokashsorry, video is crap12:53
jtokashI'll try again tomorrow12:53
AleksandyrJaffa: np, otw12:53
Aleksandyrof course, feel free to ping me if you have trouble.12:53
Aleksandyrthat partition's nonbootable atm so I can't check it =/12:54
Aleksandyroh, and, erm, it's 25 MB. Forgot that part.12:57
Aleksandyrdid I say 25? Closer to 100.12:57
* koen raiser with 20012:59
AleksandyrI have 20013:00
Aleksandyrdo I hear 250?13:00
JaffaAleksandyr: np, although I may end up asking you to anon ftp it to ;-)13:00
* Aleksandyr is on 64kbit/sec upload. This may take awhile :D13:01
JaffaIndeed :)13:01
Aleksandyrzipped, it's a "mere" 51MB. Wish I had done a make clean ;)13:01
Aleksandyrand now for a silly question. How do I figure out how much memory a process is using?13:03
Aleksandyrps appears to be ignoring me =/13:03
JaffaIt's a difficult question to answer13:04
* koen hand people
koenit does require a kernel module13:05
Aleksandyrtesting a silly theory tonight, and that theory is named mplayerd.13:05
koenblame linus for that :)13:05
* Aleksandyr no longer fears shooting unknown code into his kernel.13:05
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Aleksandyrmplayer[1449]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Entered wait_buffer in error | does that mean something to anyone atm?13:10
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konttoriHmm.. anyone tested video player of 800?13:57
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konttori_Anyone know N800 video playback capabilities?14:00
konttori_tigert: Are you around?14:11
sxpertkonttori_, obviously much better than the 770...14:11
konttori_Well, it should at least be14:12
konttori_Oh, cool.14:12
konttori_Is N800 open discussion now?14:12
sxpertit should have enough oomf to play theora14:12
tigertnothing has been announced officially14:12
konttori_sexpert: nice. I'm looking forward to mplayer stuff ont hat beast14:13
koenbut you can buy it at compuse :)14:13
konttori_tigert: I figured as much14:13
tigertkoen: sure14:13
konttori_tigert: but you probably can't talk about it14:13
tigertkoen: but I dont want to test how smart corporate managers are14:13
konttori_Like Is the OS a new one / will it be released to 770 and stuff like that14:13
tigertnope, I am sure answers will come14:14
sxpertkoen, yeah, you can get it at compusa, and it's not even on nokia's website anywhere :D14:14
tigertI am happy to see excitement of course, but no official comments happen at this time I would guess14:15 links to the n80 :)14:15
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konttori_I guess CES announcement will be in a couple of days.14:16
jtokashsorry for the poor quality:
jtokashthe original, fyi, hasn't finished uploading, so don't try to download it for at least 10 more minutes14:18
* koen wonders how maemo-mappers runs on a n80014:24
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sxpertkoen, and my yet to be written maemo surveyor :D14:29
c0ffeei wonder whether there will be some developer discount14:32
c0ffeeor some upgrade options14:32
sxpertc0ffee, haha14:33
jtokashfyi, original video is up now in case you prefer it to youtube14:33
jtokashgoodnight for real14:33
koenc0ffee: me too14:33
sxpertthe one think I don't like is the aluminium paint finish... this will go away as usual with finger friction and heavy use14:34
sxpertjtokash, too bad you compressed that to wmv from hell14:35
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galliumnice to see the n800 out14:55
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inzgallim, depends who you ask15:13
galliuminz, not sure i understand15:17
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inzgallium, if you ask nokia, it's not out15:17
inzgallium, also, if you ask nokia, it's not nice that it's "out"15:18
inzAt least I'd guess so15:18
galliumah, well maybe i should re-phrase. nice to see it exists.:)15:18
bergieso, nice leak from compusa?15:19
galliumif you can buy one than its hardly a leak, unless they released it to consumers too early.15:23
inzAFAIK that is what happened15:24
inzI'd guess Nokia would say that don't sell these until they're officially released.15:25
inzI may very well be wrong, but still that's what I'd guess.15:25
c0ffeethey have to distribute the stuff before they officially release it15:25
keesjit it all part of the buzz. and nokia is behind it all15:26
keesj(if you ask me)15:26
galliumkeesj, you're probably right :)15:27
pokute_Hah. Figures that Nokia is pretty bad at having a product available at the same time as it's announced.15:30
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galliumpersonally i'm a big fan of the 770. its been invaluable to me.15:31
qoshey guys ...15:32
galliumi may have to wait to get its bit brother15:32
galliumhi qos15:32
qosare there currently some guys already having the new n800?15:32
feruloit looks like :)15:32
galliumi'm sure there are. :)15:32
qoscould not sleep last night because of the news of it :)15:33
qosso, my head is a bit damaged ...15:33
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galliumlast i heard it was going to be announced on monday, the same day as macworld. what's next, os-x on n800? ;015:38
keesjqos, Are you talking about the Norcold's 6- and 8-foot series RV refrigerators :)15:38
Jaffakoen/c0ffee: indeed, can't see me upgrading unless there is; but if the OS 2007 is released for the 770, I don't see why Nokia would.15:38
qoskeesj, :) no ...15:39
c0ffeei'd rather buy a gps receiver for the 77015:39
c0ffeeinstead of spendium 400 bugs on a little hardware upgrade15:40
galliumbuilt-in gps like n95 would be great.15:40
c0ffeethere's an gps add-on available for the 77015:40
JaffaIt looks nice and the improved CPU/RAM are, of course, lovely, but...15:40
galliumoh, and vga out ;)15:40
c0ffeecomes with a navi program15:40
qosi think i must buy both, nokia 800 and the gps reciever...15:41
koenJaffa: indeed, it seems to have roughly the same features as the 77015:41
qoskoen, but with another dimension of speed and memory.15:42
c0ffeedouble isn't yet a dimensino15:42
c0ffeealso, we don't know about battery runtime yet15:43
qoswe will see ... sounds not bad15:43
* pahartik has decided to wait for GALILEO devices15:44
qosbattery runtime is less important with a replacement battery :)15:44
gallium.. until the battery cover falls off from wear15:44
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kenderhey gallium15:46
aladdsdoes anyone know if it's possible to buy a N800 in Europe yet?15:47
aladds*an N80015:47
qosinteresting question ...15:47
kendera N800 is correct I think15:47
aladdsan sounds better to me :P15:47
kenderin Europe...15:48
c0ffeei wonder whether CompUSA will be sued by nokia15:48
aladdsrecon they released it too early then?15:48
glass_probably not15:48
kenderany shop in Europe, like CompUSA in EEUU?15:49
c0ffeeyou mean with stupid enough employees?15:49
aladdsnot really, and you can only get the 770 from nokia europe15:49
kenderc0ffee, XDD15:49
aladdsmail order :S15:49
aladdsmaybe i'll just wait a while15:50
aladdsit doesnt look like it has a case with it yet...15:50
qosaladds, you are wrong! u can get the nokia 770 from vodaphone shops in my local town ...15:50
aladdsi didn't know that!15:50
c0ffeei needed a replacement power supply for my 770 once15:51
aladdsaren't they just standard nokia ones?15:51
c0ffeewhen i went there to get it, i didn't even have to show some id card or anything15:51
c0ffeeit was enough to say 'i want to fetch the unit for the 770'15:51
glass_i'd need couple of new style chargers replaced15:51
qosaladds, i was wondering about that too ... and the guys in the shop weren't very clever. they didn't know much about it ...15:51
c0ffeeand the were like 'oh, it's you. the guy with the non-existant nokia gear.'15:52
glass_the new style nokia(small plug) break really easily15:52
kenderI think that they are the same for phones and the n77015:52
glass_yeah it's the same15:52
aladdsdo they charge over usb?15:52
glass_and with the converter cable thing you can use older chargers15:52
glass_dunno about n800 obviously15:52
glass_but so far nokia's been no-no on usb charging(dunno about the very very latest devices)15:53
aladdsthey should do what motorolla did15:54
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aladdsmake it charge slowly normally, but if the "special charger" is attached, which ties the data pins low or somesuch and provides a larger current, charge quickly15:54
kenderthe battery of the n800, is the same of the 770?15:55
aladdsdunno, there's a picture on the flikr thing i think, but it's in a packet so might not be so visible15:55
aladdsyeah in that one15:56
kenderthere is a video15:56
kenderand, more photos15:56
aladdsdoes it look faster than the 77015:56
kenderI haven't got the 77015:57
kenderI can't say nothing15:57
kenderIt look nice15:57
aladdsme neither, i was waiting for the second gen model :P15:57
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glass_some info on cpu would be nice15:57
kenderglass_, there is...some15:57
kenderthe flags15:57
kenderthe bogomips15:57
kenderand... Mhz15:58
glass_ooh table stand15:58
glass_twice the bogos15:58
kenderthe RAM too15:59
aladdsoo it does come with a case :-)15:59
kenderwith a case?15:59
aladdswell it has one in the picture15:59
aladdsvideo even16:00
kenderthat's not a "case"16:00
aladdsit's a form of covering :p16:00
kenderthat yes16:00
kenderaladds, where are you from?16:01
kenderspain16:01 english...16:01
* aladds is insane :-)16:01
aladdsunited kingdom :P16:01
kenderyes yes16:01
kenderI know that16:01
aladdsnot certified, yet...16:01
aladdscertefied (?)16:02
aladdsno that looks worse16:02
kenderI'm looking for "case"16:02
kenderin the diccitionary16:02
aladdsas in carry case16:02
aladdswhy is it so funny?16:03
kenderI didn't know that meaning16:03
aladdsyeah, english can be strange16:03
kendervery strange!16:03
kenderI'm learning...and...some times16:04
kenderphrasal verbs16:04
aladdsyeah :P16:04
kenderspanish is better16:04
aladdsbut then again, everyone says that about their native tongue16:05
kenderI'm kidding you16:05
kenderaladds, yes16:05
kenderIt's natural16:05
kenderbut, spanish, for example,  the verbs are difficult too16:05
aladdshow so?16:06
kendermore difficult than in english16:06
kenderin english16:07
kenderonly with a word and the verb16:07
kenderyou can...put the time that you want16:08
kenderin spanish, you must "transform" the verb16:08
kendersorry my bad explanation!16:08
aladdswith a different ending you mean?16:08
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aladdsi understand you16:08
aladdsreminds me of french a bit (no offence intended)16:09
aladdsi did GCSE french :S16:09
kenderwell, they came from latin16:09
kendertwo of them16:09
kenderso, they are similar16:09
aladdsOMG bluetooth keyboards work out of the box with the N800 :D:D:D16:10
* aladds dances16:10
aladdsi love typing on a keyboard16:10
aladdsi'm yet to find a decent replacement to my eMate16:10
aladdsi actually prefer it to my powerbook G316:11
aladdsi love portable devices with keyboards16:11
aladdsand if it's bluetooth, it can double as a pda too :D16:11
aladdseven though the N800 isnt a pda per se16:12
kenderno, isn't it16:12
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aladdsi'll say though, your english is very good16:13
kendermy speak english, is very poor16:14
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ferulokender: where from Spain are you from?16:14
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kenderferulo, Noth, Bilbao16:14
feruloI love Bilbao16:14
feruloand its "pintxos" :)16:14
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feruloI'd prefer "Museo de Bellas Artes" :)16:15
kenderIt is great too16:15
kenderand, the park of "Doña Casilda"16:15
kenderyou know it?16:15
feruloyeah, they did a great exhibition of Caravaggio+Velazquez paintings last year16:15
kenderI'm not well informed about art16:16
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kenderaladds, I'm going to go to UK in summer holidays if I can, to improve my speaked english16:16
kenderlast summer I went to Ireland, beautiful16:17
kenderaladds, from where part of UK are you?16:17
feruloguadec 7!16:17
feruloor is it already 8?16:17
kenderI dunno16:18
kenderbut, the last was made here16:18
kenderin.. Valencia16:18
kenderI think16:18
aladdseast anglia, cambridgeshire16:18
kenderaladds, near London?16:18
aladdsnear cambridge :P16:19
ferulokender: nop, in Vilanova, near Barcelona16:19
kenderferulo, oh16:19
* kender looking at google maps16:19
kenderaladds, well, It more less where I imagined it16:22
aladdsyeah :P16:22
kenderI think it where more southen16:23
kender1 hour to london?16:23
aladdsyeah thereabouts16:23
aladdslittle bit less on the train16:23
kenderthat near for me!16:23
aladdsalthough, it depends where in london you go16:23
kenderwhen we were planing the travel to Dublin, we thought about, going to London, take a train to Liverpool and then the ship16:25
kenderbut...finally we made by plane16:25
kenderfirst London, then Dublin16:25
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kender8 hours to Liverpool from London16:25
kenderno thanks16:25
kender"take a train" this is correct?16:26
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NickDewell I am off to compusa to grab an n80016:47
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NickDesooo slight delay17:00
NickDegotta wait for the witnesses to take a shower17:00
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* nomis really doesn't get why the N800 gets sold without a prior announcement by Nokia.17:12
chx_ is this verified, real information? _SD SLOTS_ ?17:12
kenderyes chx_17:13
kender2 SD slots17:13
kenderno miniSD17:13
* chx_ dances17:13
chx_I already own a *boatload* of SD cards17:14
chx_Including a one gig Sandisk SD-and-USB-in-one17:14
chx_I have not bought the 770 because the CPU was so weak17:14
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chx_looks like my (let me guess: not only my) dreams are coming true17:15
pahartikchx_: is "SD" otherwise somehow better than "MMC"?17:15
kenderpahartik, it is17:15
kenderbetter speed17:15
kenderand, more size17:15
chx_speed. availablity. price.17:15
kenderI think that MMC limits are 2 Gb17:16
kenderin SD... 4 Gb...8 Gb have been seen17:16
chx_i think 8gb is a new standard17:16
chx_it needs special support -- SD cards do not have their own controllers like CF does17:17
kenderbut, backward compatible?17:17
chx_maybe you can use the first 4gb of it17:17
kenderchx_, special support, but, I think it's only software17:17
mgedminI hear that sd/mmc cards with more than 2 gb use a different addressing mode17:18
mgedminso the driver will need to be updated17:18
chx_SDHC is the name of the standard17:18
mgedminwow, a sane /topic at last17:18
kendermgedmin, :D17:19
Jaffanomis: CompUSA have broken the embargo seals on the shipping containers according to a Nokia support guy on the ITT forums.17:19 update, but, no hardware update ;-)17:19
chx_Devices that do not specifically support SD2.0/SDHC do not recognize SDHC memory cards.17:19
Jaffanomis: So I imagine Nokia marketing aren't very happy at their nicely orchestrated announcement + "...and it's available now!" being spoilt.17:19
mgedminqgil: I keep the channel log at, perhaps it would be useful to mention that in the topic17:20
chx_and what can Nokia do?17:20
chx_smack the sorry behind of the responsible manager of CompUSA or what?17:20
chx_they can hardly say "we won't do business with CompUSA"17:20
Pierregiven that everyone (~ :) and his mother is talking about it, it is a bon coup, no? cheap ads campain ;)17:22
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pokute_chx_: They can always prioritize other retail outlets and use the same reason for delaying/limiting popular phone models to CompUSA17:40
koenit's a trade-off between hurting your sales and and hurting compusa for breaking the embargo17:46
* nomis has no idea how important compusa is for the us market.17:47
MilhouseNickDe - might not be a good idea waving your "unannounced" N800 in front of the Nokia booth next week :)17:48
MilhouseI'd guess BestBuy and Frys etc. are a bit miffed at CompUSA jumping the gun17:49
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MilhouseReports on ITT that the N800 works with 4GB SD card - woohoo17:50
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tkohmm, I wonder if we'll get to know how many devices get sold before it's even supposed to be available.. need to poke some people about that :)18:01
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keesjtko, that would be quite hard to know . perhaps the devices perform a unique dns query or some other smart stuff18:26
pokute_I'm still wondering if 870 exists somewhere too, along with N800...18:26
kenderpokute_, for what?18:28
tkokeesj, not really, all purchases should have a timestamp, it's only a question of who has access to it :)18:28
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* pahartik has been trying to switch Opera of Maemo 2.1 between "Author mode" and "User mode" while running by editing "~/.opera/input.ini", but nothing seems to help18:32
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kenderand must be formatted with either the 16- or 32-bit FAT file format.18:38
kenderthe SD/MMC card, can't have ext3 or similar file system?18:38
kenderwhich is the FS of the internal memory?18:38
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bertlmikehas someone figured out yet, if the n800 is a usb 1.1 or 2.0 device?18:41
pahartikkender: ext2 filesystem works just fine on Nokia 770 MMC18:41
kenderpahartik, nice :)18:42
kenderbertlmike, 770 what was?18:43
pahartikkender: internal flash is JFFS218:43
kenderpahartik, thanks!18:43
bertlmike1.1 - which meant you basically need a cardreader to transfer bigger files (or a lot of patience)18:44
MilhouseUSB 1.1 on N800?18:44
kendernoboady tried different things? squashfs (compresed) ...18:44
bertlmikeno, on the 770 - i was wondering about the n80018:44
Milhouseright - hopefully UBS 2 on N800!18:44
MilhouseUSB even18:45
bertlmikehopefully.... yes!18:45
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vhogemannHi there, anyone knows if the N800 will be avaliable at Brazil?18:47
soothsayAs far as I know, no one knows anything about release outside of the US.18:47
qgilhi mgedmin, feel free editing the topic yourself18:48
soothsayWas the 770 available in Brazil?18:48
mgedminoh, it's unlocked18:48
MilhouseMake that release outside of CompUSA!18:48
vhogemannsoothsay: nope18:48
*** mgedmin changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at"18:48
kendermgedmin, :)18:48
MilhouseIsn't Maemo also for the N800?18:48
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*** kender changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | Chilled conversation for tableteers is welcome | | irc logs at"18:49
kenderMilhouse, yes18:49
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* mgedmin thought the N800 didn't officially exist yet ;)18:49
qgilso did I18:49
mgedminit's good to have a time machine :)18:49
kendermgedmin, xDD18:49
qgilmgedmin: have you thought about an easy way to search the archives?18:50
shaprDoes anyone know the CPU speed for the N800?18:51
Jaffashapr: No, but BogoMIPS rating is 320 vs. 125 on 77018:51
tkoqgil, google ? :)18:51
shaprI can only hope the battery life is as long.18:51
koendoes anybody realize that 'bogomips' is short for 'bogus mips'?18:52
qgiltko: I was ketting room for answers  ;)18:52
Jaffakoen: indeed, although I've never worked out where the "o" comes from18:52
mgedminqgil:, but don't tell anyone!18:52
JaffaThe N800's made /., btw.18:53
shaprkoen: Yup, but it shows that the n800 might be faster18:53
Milhousewhat was the speed of the OMAP1710 - 120Mhz?18:53
kendermgedmin, :)18:53
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JaffaMilhouse: ~220-250MHz18:53
mgedminshapr: 320 MHz18:53
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mgedminon the N80018:53
mgedminDisconnect measured the cpu speed yesterday18:53
koenbut vith vfp and without alignment problems18:53
Milhousewow, the bogomips are way off then on the 77018:54
Jaffamgedmin: using ssvb's binary, ssvb said that the output of that was *half* the clock frequency.18:54
tkoMilhouse, IIRC we run 1710 at 250MHz18:54
mgedminnah, bogomips depend on the cpu architecture a lot18:54
Milhouseon some RISC architectures it's close to the clock speed18:54
mgedminon the 770 mhz = bogomips * 2; on the 800 mhz = bogomips18:54
shaprmgedmin: spiffy18:55
pahartikshapr: when used with other Bluetooth 2.0 devices, battery life of Nokia N800 should be slightly better18:55
Jaffamgedmin: if you say so (I didn't know OTTOMH a 640MHz OMAP either, that's XScale-like territory)18:55
shaprpahartik: What about without?18:56
shaprIs it using the same battery?18:56
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jonek is available18:57
mgedminthe battery applet on the n800 now estimates time remaining18:57
pahartikshapr: compared to using Bluetooth 1.2...18:57
kenderjonek, wow18:57
qgilcool mgedmin, tko this irc logs search is to be linked somewhere at the website as well, isn't it18:57
shaprMy 770 is now 1 year and two days old, and bits of the plastic are breaking off, I'm glad they released an upgrade.18:57
shaprNow if only I can scrape up $400 soon!18:58
tkoqgil, I think the search box should be at the top of the logs list18:58
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shaprI found 4GB SD cards listed, is that the largest available?18:58
Milhousejonek - no wonder Nokia are p!ssed at CompUSA, they are still getting the Bora infrastructure available18:58
Disconnectgonna post sample vidcap soon probably18:58
kenderDisconnect, :D18:59
tkoMilhouse, we're pissed? where?18:59
qgiltko: this too, but I don't know mgedmin yet  :)18:59
konttori_Disconnect: you got one already? Cool stuff18:59
shaprDisconnect: How'd you get yours so early?18:59
Milhousemy 13 month old 770 is in pretty good shape18:59
inzjonek, roostraps are also in /stable/bora/armel/18:59
Disconnectshapr: i'm the guy that went to compusa yesterday and bought one18:59
Disconnectthats where most of the specs came from19:00
shaprMy 770 does mountain unicycling with me while wrapped in a t-shirt in my backpack. I've had some hard landings that weren't good for either of us.19:00
ssvbJaffa: my test program calculates the number of ADD instructions that can be executed per second, so it can be used to estimate clock frequency19:00
shaprDisconnect: cool!19:00
mgedmintko, qgil: the search is an experimental feature, I will add a search box/link to the front page eventually19:00
Zmanui follow the maemo tutorial and i'm just try to use xephyr19:00
Milhousetko: I thought Nokia were upset with CompUSA selling N800's before the announcement. If however you mean pissed as in booze, get yerself down to the local pub :)19:00
konttori_Is the N800 32 bit video or still 16 bit ?19:00
Jaffassvb: ah, I see.19:01
Zmanuso i write code like in tutorial, and run it, i have error "cannot open host display. Is display set ?" in code i have set i want to use display 219:01
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kenderDisconnect, the usb, is 1.1 or 2.0?19:01
Zmanuis someone can help me find what need, i use debian sarge19:01
qgilmgedmin: I have tried a couple of times and the results were interesting (you are probably logging them?)19:01
JaffaMilhouse: that's only speculation, really. And since none of Nokia's marketing peeps hang out here (AFAIK), we'll never know ;-)19:01
Disconnectrefresh my memory on /dev/video format..? mplayer failed to autodetect19:01
mgedminqgil: define "interesting"19:01
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MilhouseJaffa - you're right, but I'm sure they'd rather the CompUSA droids hadn't ignored the "embargo" stickers!19:02
tkoMilhouse, I mean have you seen us getting mad? or maybe the whole thing is just marketing ploy :)19:02
nokDisconnect:  I heard you got xterm running.  Can you tell me how?19:02
ssvbJaffa: it benchmarks Nokia 770 to have 250MHz (which proves that it is at least higher than 220MHz which some people believe Nokia 770 has), and N800 to 320MHz (but OMAP2 cpus theoretically should have 330MHz)19:02
qgilmgedmin: the results provided what i was looking for and even made me think of other terms to search19:02
nokis there a log of this channel stored somewhere?19:02
Disconnectnok: downgrade libvte19:02
soothsaySee topic19:02
Jaffassvb: cool19:03
konttori_Is the display 24 bit on N800?19:03
MDKtigert: btw, what about the new
tigertnok: on google19:03
jonekI need some helping hand to get Java (PhoneME advanced) compiled for the 770. I guess I lack knowledge of toolchains/crosscompiling. I think I have to compile it "outside" of scratchbox, as inside there isn't the needed jdk1.4.2 available.19:03
Milhousetko: no, only speculation and I'm not suggesting you're hopping up and down mad, you might just be mildly annoyed, or not bothered at all! :)19:03
qgiltigert, see topic  :)19:03
MDKhey konttori_19:03
konttori_MDK: Hi19:03
tigertqgil: :)19:03
tigertok. must run, later19:03
ssvbJaffa: probably tko can confirm if N800 is 320MHz or 330MHz in reality (maybe after official announcement if it is still a secret)19:03
Jaffajonek: Aleksandyr was talking earlier about when he compiled classpath/JamVM/jikes and had "fun" getting it to use the jikes outside the scratchbox. If he's awake he may be able to help19:03
tkoMilhouse, probably depends much on the person :)19:03
tkossvb, N-what? :)19:04
Zmanunobody use xephyr in scratchbox ?19:04
Milhouseanyone able to provide the output from "uname -a" ?19:04
JaffaZmanu: no, you use Xephyr *outside* scratchbox and the apps/HAF running inside Scratchbox use it as an X server19:05
noktigert: thanks.19:05
Milhouseuname -a from N800 of course19:05
* konttori_ was just testing 400x480 video on mplayer. looks terrific. Thanks ssvb! 19:05
tkoZmanu, the basic steps are: outside sbox: Xephyr :2 -ac -screen... ; inside scratchbox: export DISPLAY=:2; start19:06
soothsayIs there a reason scratchbox isn't available in the Debian repositories?19:06
kenderDisconnect, the usb of the N800, 1.1 or 2.0?19:06
jonekJaffa: You mean Aleksandyr compiled that stuff inside scratchbox and used a compiler from outside for that?19:06
ZmanuJaffa, tko thanks19:06
Jaffajonek: that's the impression I got, but ICBW19:07
tkosoothsay, sbox is a piece of c...ode that isn't compatible with debian packaging policies - yet19:07
feruloyeah, the /scratchbox thing is ugly :)19:07
tkothere's been some talk to improve sbox in that area, especially with sbox 1.x it should be more simple19:07
suihkulokkiferulo: you can install sbox 1.0 wherever you want =)19:08
soothsaytko: Is there a timeline for 1.x?19:08
suihkulokkiin sbox 1.0 you can create devkits more easily, so creating a "jdk" devkit should not hard either19:09
tkosoothsay, I don't think we got that far, though I'm not directly involved in that19:09
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suihkulokkiotoh I don't really like devkits per se19:09
tkosuihkulokki, they're better than hacking scratchbox-core IMO19:09
jonekJaffa: my understanding of scratchbox+maemo was that when using the arm target everything is emulated eith quemu. so there is no chance of using the java/javac from "outside" in there as that is i386. is that right?19:09
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suihkulokkijonek: nope, any x86 binary under /scratchbox (*inside scratchbox*) just works19:10
tkojonek, if you make java a devkit or something, it can be i386 and skip the qemu19:10
lletko: I'm willing to bet that sb2 is ready before nokia gets its lazy ass to move maemo to sb 1.x19:10
tkoferulo, did you get anywhere with your mono devkit? :)19:11
Jaffajonek: no, when you're compiling stuff you're using a cross-comiler *targetting* ARM but running natively. Also, compiling Java class files: the result is platform indepdent ;-)19:11
tkolle, deal :)19:11
koenJaffa: not quite true19:11
ferulotko: not really19:11
koenJaffa: you can't cross-compile the rxtx java libs19:11
ferulomostly away from computers during Xmas19:12
Jaffakoen: true, the native JNI bits need to use the cross-compiler19:12
* qgil didn't know who was ferulo19:12
feruloyeah, fer was taken here in freenode19:12
MDKhey fer19:12
jonekJaffa: :-) I know that19:12
feruloqgil: are you buying "the bed"? :)19:12
MDKferulo: ferulito19:13
qgilferulo: "the bed"?19:13
RotundIsn't Herring (the basis for Bora) already using scratchbox 2?19:13
feruloqgil: all nokias coming for abroad are buying the same bed :)19:13
Jaffajonek: if you're just doing PhoneME, it's not important, but I had some thoughts about auto-Hildonisation in J2SE19:13
MDKferulo: haha19:13
MDKqgil: and same ikea "bundle"19:14
tkoferulo, the nokia model? :)19:14
ferulothey are going to rename it in IKEA as "nokia" instead of "sultan" or whatever19:14
feruloxan: sushi?19:14
qgilferulo: sorry for not joining the bed party but we are bringing our handmade bet in the 30cbm container19:14
jonekJaffa: I wonder if there is a "GTK-part" in the phoneME code that could be used on the 77019:14
* Jaffa 's not looked at the phoneME code, so couldn't say.19:15
qgilferulo: hum, how you know the bed your colleagues are buying19:15
lleRotund: not as far as I know ;) if they do, they're insane..19:15
tkoqgil, are you sure you want to know?19:15
qgilnow you make me think and I don't know the bed of most of my office colleagues in the last 15 years!19:15
MDKqgil: the best place to meet nokia employees over weekend in helsinki is ikea or stockmann19:16
qgiltko: sorry I'm under non-disclosure, can't answer you19:16
tkoah, the first rule of nokia-ikea-bed-club...19:16
ferulodamm, we should meet every sunday in that sushi bar instead of stockman :)19:17
MDKferulo: which one? Kamppi ?19:17
feruloyup, the one that xan recommends19:17
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qgilferulo, MDK, tko: the rent of a 4 room house for the whole family + Suomi taxation % won't let us much cash for shopping furniture over the weekend, I believe19:20
MDKthe taxation is pretty nasty19:21
MDKand rental prices are high too19:21
ferulodamm, we need to get the new tax card :(19:21
qgilbtw, if you want/miss something eatable or drinkable from Spain that can last 1 week in a cold container, *now* is your opportunity to ask19:22
tkoferulo, hmm, you didn't get it already?19:22
Rotundlle: sorry I was thinking 1.0 and not .9 or whatever it was19:22
ferulonot, but they are going to send a wrong one, based on my last year income19:22
ferulothat was only a 7months income, so I'm going to enjoy my new %19:22
qgilwhat % are you getting, if it's ok to share?19:23
feruloI have to calculate the new one19:23
feruloold one was... 2x something19:23
ferulo24 or 26 IIRC19:23
ferulo <-- this is the bed19:24
MDKI got 19% for 5 months19:24
ferulodaniels, johan, moises, jesus, guillem.. me... :)19:24
* tko makes mental note to avoid that particular bed19:24
feruloMDK: did you take into account the bonusses when calculating it? or did you get a nice 55% during december?19:24
qgilferulo: now I see the furinture taste of the average maemo hacker...19:25
feruloquick and cheap19:25
MDKferulo: I think I got that into account accidentaly. Besides, my bonuses were not *that* high due to obvious reasons.19:25
qgilferulo: the bed or...?19:25
ferulothat's my living room "taste" :)19:26
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suihkulokkiwell I guess most nerds get furniture for their functional value rather than aesthic value =)19:26
ferulo quite ikeasih too19:26
qgilfer: respect19:27
joneksuihkulokki: does that mean I can use the jdk1.4.2 binaries inside scrtachbox if I install them there?19:28
MDKI'm kinda minimal:
MDKand I'm sleeping in a bed of another nokia employee19:28
MDKferulo: what one needs to do to get the new tax card? Go through the on-line forms?19:29
feruloMDK: phone call19:29
ferulothey will send the new one to your place19:29
qgilmdk: pink floyd!19:30
ferulosend send it to nokia payroll before 6st of Feb19:30
MDKok, I'll send send it19:30
shaprAny released word on bluetooth headset support in bora?19:31
qgilI need to upload somewhere the video shootage we made from the whole house last week, before starting demounting it (sigh!)19:31
joneksuihkulokki: is it possible to make the installation of the i386 JDK in my /usr/local (outside scratchbox) available to scratchbox without installing it inside again (to save diskspace)?19:31
suihkulokkijonek: are you using 1.0 ?19:31
qgilKatja, my partner, asks for the measures of "The Bed"19:31
ferulo1.80 x 2.00?19:32
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joneksuihkulokki: nope, 0.9.819:32
suihkulokkijonek: if you where using 1.0.x, you could try bindmounting /usr/local/jdk -> /sbox/devkits/java, then setting JAVA_HOME and path19:33
feruloMDK's bed is confrotable19:33
feruloI was told by carlos' child :)19:33
noksomeone mentioned reports on ITT in the logs... what is ITT?19:33
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NickDeI got it!@19:36
NickDeits amazing19:36
NickDevideo camera is hot19:36
joneksuihkulokki: :-( I tought maemo was only supposed to work with sbox 0.9.8?19:36
MDKheh, one more down19:36
NickDeha ha ha19:36
NickDebut I'll keep it stock until a proper 2007 os is available for download19:37
NickDecan I install apps like xterm etc on this n800? or should I wait for proper 2007 packlages19:37
joneksuihkulokki: ok :) - I also noticed those successfull reports with outher versions19:38
chx_i wander... is it feasible to have a webserver on the machine?19:38
joneksuihkulokki: but I never gave a later version a try19:38
chx_like 'thy'19:38
shaprchx_: thttpd is aready packaged for the 77019:39
shaprIt works fine.19:39
chx_then let's get bold19:39
chx_PHP? MySQL?19:39
shaprIs already packaged.19:39
chx_SQLite...mmmm and PHP?19:39
bertlmikecan anyone with a n800 give me the 6 digit compusa sku (should be on the receipt)?19:39
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NickDeit seems the screen is glass19:41
NickDenot a film19:41
NickDeso it wont mark19:41
NickDeon the n800 that is19:41
NickDethats neat19:42
qgil[OT] Is it there a website to retrieve the zip/postal code of an address in Helsinki?19:42
shaprchx_: I haven't seen PHP packaged for Maemo.19:43
tkoqgil, might work for you19:43
tkoI just use :)19:44
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chx_shapr: OK, now I googled (sorry for not before) seems someone wanted to this lately19:45
Zmanuis someone have repository for sarge to install xephyr ?19:47
tkoZmanu, the current sdk comes with Xephyr19:48
Zmanuyou tell install it outside scratchbox and sfk is for inside scratchbox, no ?19:48
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Zmanui take SDK 2.119:49
tkoZmanu, run outside scratchbox, not necessarily install19:50
Zmanubut how can i do that ?19:50
NickDeso is there a difference between OS2006 and OS2007?19:50
MDKrobtaylor: ping19:51
tkoZmanu, there's a script which makes starting easy19:51
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tkoNickDe, yes. if nothing else, at least 6 vs. 7 :-]19:52
Zmanui create this inside scratchbox ... i've just understand, i must run it from outside not inside ... too stupid i'm ... thanks19:52
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Zmanutko, thanks that work fine19:59
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soothsayN800 on slashdot front page20:05
joneksuihkulokki: I neither can start java (i386 binary from 1.4.2 JDK) inside arm target of scratchbox nor can I install the jdk from inside it.20:06
chx_again... just a thought... if I would PayPal someone a few greenbacks... would it be possible that someone who lives in a more fortunate place than Hungary would send me an N800 ?20:06
suihkulokkijonek: with 1.0.x ?20:06
joneksuihkulokki: as I said I only have sbox 0.9.820:06
soothsayDoes anyone know what the license for Canola is?20:07
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suihkulokkijonek: sorry, I wasn't clear enough, you need atleast apophis r4 for unmodified binaries to work under /scratchbox20:07
AleksandyrI think I need to write some kind of AI to parse my IRC backlogs for me.20:08
xanferulo, hey20:08
jonekAleksandyr: hi20:08
xanferulo, you want to go to the sushi bar now?20:08
Aleksandyrjonek, good morning20:08
ferulowell, in one hour?20:08
xanlet me ask sandra20:08
Aleksandyr[technically it is 1pm: however, I just woke up.]20:08
Aleksandyrhas some brave soul attempted a dist-upgrade to bora? :D20:09
jonekAleksandyr: I read about your java efforts for the 770 on the ITT forum thread Jaffa pointed me to20:09
xanferulo, ok20:09
Aleksandyrjonek, still catching up on the backlog :D got questions?20:09
jonekAleksandyr: I try to build Java PhoneME for the 77020:10
chx_do we have news whether the N800 USB connector is powered or not?20:10
AleksandyrGL. I can't figure out how to get it to build period, let alone near scratchbox20:10
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feruloxan: so, at 21:15 where?20:11
Aleksandyrreading over the docs, they have their own crosscompile spec built in to their build system --- probably won't play at all with scratchbox20:11
feruloor 21:30...20:11
jonekAleksandyr: for such a build java 1.4.2 sdk is needed which isn't available in scratchbox20:11
xanferulo, do you know the place?20:12
ferulono :)20:12
xanok, then let's meet at kamppi20:12
Aleksandyrjonek: it's possible to link host tools into a special directory in scratchbox so that they become available regardless of target20:12
ferulowhat door?20:12
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NickDethe manual of the n800 makes reference to Nvidia20:12
Aleksandyrjonek: this is how I was able to compile classpath under SDK_ARMEL20:12
xanhum, the one you hit coming from the station20:12
xanin the big square place20:13
NickDeor is that a standard Nokia manual thing20:13
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jonekAleksandyr: how can I link my host 1.4.2 JDK into scratchbox?20:13
|TBB|anyone knows how to delete buddys under gaim (n770 port)20:13
Aleksandyrjonek: excellent question! Don't entirely remember. :D20:14
ferulook, xan, so 21.30?20:14
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xanferulo, hm, btw, it's always full, we had to eat in the "barra" a couple of times, very uncomfortable20:14
Aleksandyrjonek: that said, I'm going to go dig into my dual boot partition (which isn't booting =/) and see if I can figure out how I did it with Jikes.20:15
feruloI have no food at home, so it's better :)20:15
feruloMDK, tko: are you joining?20:15
jonekAleksandyr: and yes PhoneME's build system is prepared for crosscompiling to the different target platforms20:15
Aleksandyrjonek: in theory, Jikes should work in place of the j2sdk20:15
Aleksandyrheh, that was easy.20:15
Aleksandyr /scratchbox/users/[you]/host_usr20:15
MDKferulo: no, we went to Luc with Lucas for a launch... I'm stull full20:16
Aleksandyrwhich becomes merged with your scratchbox /usr20:16
Aleksandyrso in theory you could do a j2sdk install into that directory and it would, barring some path tweaks, work in scratchbox.20:17
myrenthere's still no usb host?20:18
jonekAleksandyr: I'm trying just that - thx20:18
AleksandyrI'd be extremely interested in the process you're using, jonek, as I just couldn't get anything out of PhoneME.20:18
Aleksandyrjonek: not only are you welcome, but if you get PhoneME sorted, I owe you a drink ;)20:19
jonekAleksandyr: I compiled it successfully for Linux/i386 (all tests passed)20:19
myrenwhy oh why is there no god damned usb20:19
jonekAleksandyr: now I want to do the same for the 77020:20
Aleksandyrside note: has anyone confirmed the flash player version on the 800?20:21
AleksandyrI remember reading about succesfful if slow YouTube work20:21
Aleksandyrsimpler question: should I still be working on MaemoTube ;)20:22
soothsayYoutube is pretty unusable.20:23
soothsayBlame there probably lies squarely at Adobe20:23
tkoferulo, no thanks. I'm full, far away and don't enjoy sushi that much20:23
ferulo3 good reasons :)20:24
Aleksandyrsoothsay, was afraid of that. If it's barely usable on the 800 it will be entirely worthless on the 77020:24
|TBB|where do i find the builtin browser /bin....20:25
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Aleksandyr_silly router.20:28
jonekAleksandyr: I now have the jdk in /scratchbox/users/[me]/host_usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13 but it doesn't seem to be available in my SDK_ARMEL :-(20:29
Aleksandyr_jonek: did you set your paths?20:29
jonekAleksandyr: I don't know where to20:29
Aleksandyr_jonek: export PATH=$PATH:/usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13/bin IIRC20:29
JaffaSet JAVA_HOME too, probably20:30
Aleksandyr_unless I'm underestimating the problem :D20:30
Aleksandyr_export JAVA_HOME=/usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_1320:30
Aleksandyr_in the name of sanity I would symlink /usr/bin/java to /usr/bin/j2sdk...etc20:30
jonekAleksandyr: sorry, I was not precise enough. /usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13 isn't there20:30
Aleksandyr_restarted scratchbox after the install?20:30
jonekAleksandyr: logged out and in again yes20:31
* Aleksandyr_ wishes he had a working scratchbox system.20:31
Aleksandyr_err, no, I mean, restart scratchbox. /etc/init.d/scratchbox restart20:31
llejonek: if you put it into host_usr it won't be visible in /usr/bin20:31
llejonek: it's in /host_usr/bin20:31
* Aleksandyr_ suddenly feels extremely silly.20:31
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joneklle: ok I've seen it there but thought it doesn't matter :-/20:32
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lleI think I did get java working inside sbox long time ago20:33
joneklle: if I do /host_usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13/bin/java I get bash: /host_usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13/bin/java: No such file or directory20:33
lledunno why20:33
Aleksandyr_hrm. Testing a theory. Back in a few.20:34
llejonek: that's because it doesn't find it's libraries20:34
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llejonek: somebody with more recent experience with sb0.x/1.x could help more20:35
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jonekI have JAVA_HOME=/host_usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13 and PATH=$PATH:/host_usr/bin/j2sdk1.4.2_13/bin20:35
lleLD_LIBRARY_PATH is the key20:36
joneklle: ok20:36
lleand you need to run it through
lle/scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ /host_usr/bin/...20:36
lleor something to that effect20:36
llethe alien wrapper used to take care of this20:37
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slapin_nbhi, all!20:37
llepeople on #scratchbox should be able to help20:37
joneklle: thx I will ask there20:38
lleall in all, it's quite easy, really20:38
slapin_nbis it possible to get n800 using internet shop?20:38
|TBB|who has an n800 allready20:39
pokute_slapin_nb: I think it will be after it's announced properly.20:39
slapin_nbbtw, is it possible to get parts for n770 not on Nokia shop?20:39
tkoI'd think you generally have better luck in purchasing things *after* they're officially announced20:39
tkobut that's just me20:39
* slapin_nb hopes to get preorder discount :)20:39
lletko: you're just being pessimistic20:39
tkolle, I still don't have my flying car.. maybe that's why20:40
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pokute_slapin_nb: I bet those could apply if it was announced at date x and being sold at date x+y. But considering they probably will be available on date x.20:41
lletko: yeah, that sucks. but instead you got an internet tablet! isn't that cool or what..20:41
tko770 was cool, but now it's old news :)20:42
slapin_nbwell, is it possible to get some n770 accessories using not Nokia shop?20:43
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pahartikslapin_nb: define "n770 accessories"?20:47
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joneklle: #scratchbox seems to stay quiet20:48
tkoI thought sbox project was practically hibernating20:52
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slapin_nbpahartik, stylus20:52
llejonek: that may be20:57
|TBB|where to find the opera executable20:57
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llejonek: send a mail to, they do reply, it might take a while though20:57
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kenderNickDe, a question, the usb of the n800, is 2.0 or 1.1 like in the 770?21:10
shaprHm, 8gb SD cards exist... What's the limit of the n800 card slot?21:13
shaprI'd love to have an N800 with 16gb of storage.21:14
sitikender: oh is that why copying stuff to the 770 is so slow, silly usb 1.0!21:14
mgedminI thought linux didn't support sd/mmc cards > 4 gb yet21:14
kendermgedmin, someone put's one 4Gb card, and works fine in the n80021:14
kendersiti, yes, that's why I'm asking21:15
JussiPIs it even full speed 1.1? It seems to me that I can transfer data faster to other USB 1.1 devices.21:15
kenderI think yes, but, no idea21:15
mgedminabout sd/mmc cards on linux:
|TBB|is it possible to watch youtube vidz smoothly on the n80021:16
mgedminabout data transfer speed: I got the impression that writing to flash was the bottleneck21:16
siti|TBB|: from everywhere I read it's a little jerky21:17
kender <- mgedmin21:17
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mgedminxchat crashed on me :/21:18
kendermgedmin, have you see the image?21:18
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kenderMy next goal, and Pierre might beat me to it, is to add support for the new high capacity MMC and SD cards. The original standard uses byte-level addressing, which limits addressable capacity to 4GB - the new revisions (SD 2.0 and MMC 4.2) use block level addressing to access 2TB21:18
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mgedminnow I have21:18
mgedminthat's exactly what I was talking about -- different addressing modes21:19
kenderbut, 4 Gb works21:19
sitiyeah so 8gb is pretty nice21:19
kendermore, by now, no21:19
kendersiti, pretty pretty pretty, hehe21:19
kendermgedmin, anyway, do you think that with a driver "improvement" we could use more storage SD cards?21:20
kenderor it is a hardware limit?21:20
mgedminI'm actually pretty clueless, but that blog page I linked says it can be done with a software update21:21
kenderin the nokia official User guide said21:22
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kenderThe size limit is 2 GB. You can only use FAT 16/3221:23
kenderformatted compatible memory cards with this device.21:23
kenderbut...that's not true, is it?21:23
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|TBB|have any1 answered my question before?  gaim and other apps closed while browsing the web with n77021:24
mgedminI suspect that some 4 GB cards use byte-level addressing (and work), while others use block-level addressing (and thus do not work)21:24
mgedmin|TBB|: about youtube on n800?  it sort of works, but video plays at 2fps, and audio hiccups21:25
sitiso I guess they're just being safe21:25
mgedminthere's a youtube video of the n800 playing a youtube video21:25
siti2fps ouch, is it because flash is so unoptomized?21:25
mgedminhas anyone tried playing flash videos with mplayer?21:25
mgedminon the n800 (or the 770)?21:25
Zmanui have install Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.1_armel-rootstrap.tgz.tar and i try to run it by sbox-config -st SDK_ARMEL but it don't want because i'm soon login on SDK_PC but i don't understand why because i just follow tutorial21:26
pokute_I guess that Nokia would rather undershoot with it's compability notices than overshoot and have a backlash.21:26
sitiit would be cool if google released a not so intense version for handhelds like the n800... :)21:26
sitiyeah it's not so good when people buy a 4GB memory card and it doesn't work21:26
pahartiksiti: "Google search engine CGI" works just fine on Opera of Maemo 2.121:27
sitiwhat I meant, is youtube and google video :P21:27
sitimgedmin: do you have a link to that youtube video?21:28
|TBB|whats the google search engine cgi21:28
mgedminsiti: I had it, and that's when my xchat crashed21:28
sitiin other words the simple google search...21:28
sitimgedmin:  :(21:28
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mgedminsiti, |TBB|:
|TBB|cant watch it now on the n77021:30
sitiit seems faster to startup!21:30
JussiPAnd faster on pretty much everything. :)21:31
sitiwooho ;)21:31
Piohow much are the n800s going for?21:31
glass_not anything yet21:31
Piomy 770 is only a couple weeks old.. heh21:31
|TBB|mine too21:31
glass_tomorrow maybe21:31
Piok thanks21:31
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pahartikPio: same thing here...21:31
|TBB|mgedmin is it available in germany too21:32
PioNokia has quietly begun delivering an upgrade to its Linux-based 770 Internet Tablet. The Nokia N800 Internet Tablet is available now from at least two retail stores in the U.S., priced at $399.99,21:32
Piofrom osnews.com21:32
kender|TBB|, how you know it?21:33
kenderdo you*21:34
sitihe should have put a "?" mark :P21:34
pahartikkender: it looked like question without "?" character21:34
sitiwhat's the new game there's one more in that menu hah21:35
kenderyes, sorry21:35
sitiis the screens white kind of weird still, e.g. when you look close you can see all the weird colours?21:36
Zmanuis someone know why i can't use sbox-config -st SDK_ARMEL when i'm on SDK_PC21:37
Zmanuon 77021:37
|TBB|who could tell me where to find the executable file for opera21:39
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NickDethis thing is hilarious21:39
keesjZmanu,  what kind of errro do you get?21:39
NickDen800 rocks21:39
|TBB|so i can setup gaim browser settings21:40
Zmanuerror "You have 1 other scratchbox session running! you must terminate it before the active target can be changed"21:40
keesjZmanu, I guess it's not the best time to get support on this channel :)21:40
Zmanukeesj, because n800 come out :)21:41
|TBB|nickde have u used a n770 before?21:41
NickDeof course21:41
NickDeI've had a 770 since last nov21:41
NickDea year ago21:41
|TBB|and now got a n88021:41
keesjZmanu, they are all on drugs and did not sleep for the last 48 hours (I think)21:41
NickDeI've been hacking the 770 for a while now.. I am eager to get ssh/xterm on here so I can start looking around on it21:41
kenderNickDe, question, the usb of the n800 is 1.1 or 2.0?21:42
sitican anyone send one over here ;)21:42
NickDekender: don't know.. haven't checked it I've only had it for about 4 hours now21:42
sitiI had to do some crazy stuff just to get hold of a nokia 770 :(21:42
NickDe|TBB|: yes and now have an n80021:42
kenderNickDe, can you check it?21:42
NickDeI'm in RI.. I just walked into my compusa21:42
NickDebought it21:42
NickDewalked out21:42
|TBB|what r the main advantages21:42
NickDethen 2 of my friends bought the last 221:42
sititwice as fast ;)21:42
NickDekender: I can hold up21:42
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NickDe|TBB|: its very very snappy21:43
NickDe|TBB|: seems like the screen is real glass21:43
NickDeand wont mark as easy as the  film on the 77021:43
qgilsorry for keeping the OTs, they won't last more than 5 days: do you how long does it take to get an Internet connection in a home equipped with cable? Which provider should I contact?21:43
MDKqgil: depends on the area21:43
Zmanukeesj, and you can't help me ?21:43
lleqgil: welho.com21:44
MDKin most cases you can go to a market-like store (ie. stockmann), sign a paper, pickup welho kit and go home21:44
MDKat least that's how it worked for me21:44
MDK2mbps/512kbps is 25euro / month21:45
pokute_Some people might like a ADSL connection, but those can take a long time to appear, unless you pay some ridicilous extra.21:45
MDKwelho is nice since they give external ip's that have very long lifespan21:45
pokute_qgil: Of course, welho requires cable tv connection.21:45
MDKat least mine haven't changed since I got it21:46
MDK(few months already)21:46
qgilI think I've got cable connection21:46
|TBB|mdk whats the thing on the upper left side it looks like an antenna21:46
NickDe|TBB|: camera21:47
NickDekender: you still around?21:47
tkoMDK, you can get a connection from nokia as well, though I don't know the terms and it's probably meant for working from home.. but go figure21:47
* pahartik would probably get WCDMA or DOCSIS uplink while waiting for xDSL to be connected21:47
NickDeI just plugged it into my laptop21:47
|TBB|the thing which stays left out?21:48
kenderNickDe, nice21:48
MDKtko: yeah, true. "Home office" or something like that21:48
MDKthough, I don't know anyone who has it21:48
NickDeusb 1-8: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 621:48
NickDeusb 1-8: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice21:48
NickDescsi4 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices21:48
NickDeusb-storage: device found at 621:48
NickDeusb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning21:48
NickDescsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Nokia    N800             0316 PQ: 0 ANSI: 221:48
NickDeSCSI device sdc: 3970048 512-byte hdwr sectors (2033 MB)21:48
NickDesdc: Write Protect is off21:48
NickDesdc: Mode Sense: 0f 00 00 0021:48
NickDesdc: assuming drive cache: write through21:48
NickDeSCSI device sdc: 3970048 512-byte hdwr sectors (2033 MB)21:48
NickDesdc: Write Protect is off21:48
NickDesdc: Mode Sense: 0f 00 00 0021:48
NickDesdc: assuming drive cache: write through sdc: sdc121:48
NickDesd 4:0:0:0: Attached scsi removable disk sdc21:48
NickDesd 4:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 021:48
NickDeusb-storage: device scan complete21:48
NickDeshows up as usb storage?!21:48
NickDe/dev/sdc1             1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /mnt/cdrom21:49
pahartikNickDe: flood21:49
NickDeI jsut mounted it21:49
sitiyay for flood protection ;)21:49
NickDeto /mnt/cdrom21:49
NickDebut still it mounted the SDcard inside it21:49
NickDeI like how freenode wont allow a paste of proper legit output21:49
pahartikNickDe: try to avoid that21:49
NickDepahartik: I'll blame freenode21:49
pahartikNickDe: FreeNode flooded channel for you... oh... I see21:50
pokute_Auuugh! My signal to ratio sensors!21:50
llesensor to ratio noise?21:51
pokute_Signal to noise ratio sensors, even. - correction contributing to the noise...21:51
|TBB|is the performance much better as on the n770?21:51
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NickDepahartik: it was just about 15 lines of the dmesg output from plugging in the n800 but according to freenode thats a flood..21:51
tkohmm, does anyone have requests for talks at fosdem at guadec? :)21:51
tkofosdem or guadec, that is21:51
MDKtko: requests?21:51
lletko: a thorough psychoanalysis of build system developers21:52
tkoMDK, for us to have presentations about stuff people actually want to hear about21:52
MDKtko: "Sardine: the never-ending story" ;)21:52
tkogpl: the license we all love :)21:53
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|TBB|nickde could uanswer my question?21:56
NickDe|TBB|: the performance is obviously snappier21:56
NickDeit boots faster21:56
NickDemore ram21:56
NickDe128 megs to be exact21:57
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|TBB|in percent21:57
sitiyou measure performance like that :P21:57
NickDeall I can give you is my experience with it in the last 4 hours21:58
NickDeI haven't benchmarked the damn thing21:58
|TBB|do it, do it21:58
MDKNickDe: porn works21:58
sitistartup time is a good start ;)21:58
VReI wonder how big resolution mplayer can do on the new n80021:58
|TBB|mdk lol21:59
NickDeMDK: of course :)21:59
pokute_porn works always.21:59
NickDeI'm pretty sure that was the main focus of the engineering team21:59
sitiNickDe: can you test the startup time?21:59
pokute_NickDe: Can you test the USB transfer speed?21:59
NickDesure hold on22:00
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NickDeis there an easier way to actually test USB throughput?22:02
mgedminI would just try to copy a large file with midnight commander and see what it shows22:03
NickDeI'll transfer some stuff with time22:03
NickDehold on22:03
NickDemidnight commander?22:03
sititime bash -c 'cp BIGFILE /mnt/point && sync'22:03
NickDethats what I'm doing siti22:03
sitimake sure you use sync ;)22:04
NickDeI dont use file managers much22:04
mgedmindd also shows time and transfer speed22:04
mgedmindd if=BIGFILE of=/mnt/point/whatever22:04
NickDeI am copying 334M22:05
mgedmindd if=BIGFILE of=/mnt/point/whatever oflag=sync22:05
NickDehold for results22:05
jaebirdDoes the N800 have an IR blaster?22:05
mgedminno, conv=sync22:05
mgedminno, oflag=sync22:05
mgedminnever used that stuff22:05
llemaybe even if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=10022:06
|TBB|mgedmin what do you excpect when the device is available in germany22:06
NickDe334 megs in 1 min 3.124 seconds22:06
mgedminafter the official announcement22:06
mgedminwhich is rumoured to come on monday22:06
sitiis that for the n800? what about the 770 ;)22:06
|TBB|will u buy it?22:07
|TBB|any1 using gaim on n77022:08
sitiI hope they sell it in outside of europe and USA22:08
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mgedminI hope they sell it inside all of europe22:09
mgedmins/hope/wish, but do not really expect/22:09
NickDehah now I have my 770 and n800 side by side charging22:09
mgedminit's a race!22:09
mgedminplace your bets, gentlemen22:09
sitiis the n800 battery better or the same as the 770?22:09
mgedminsame from what I heard22:10
sitiso it might even have a little less battery life with the faster processor...22:10
mgedminno CompUSA shops on this hemisphere, though :(22:10
|TBB|i cant delete or rename buddys22:10
kenderthanks NickDe22:10
NickDeno prob22:10
kendersomeone could do the same that has done NickDe , but with the 770?22:11
* siti coughs now the startup test22:11
NickDetime for me to play with this thing22:11
kenderNickDe, :D22:11
NickDeactually I'll try that22:11
NickDeI just shut off my 77022:11
NickDeone second I'll give you a rough estimate22:11
|TBB|how can i simulate a right click22:11
kenderNickDe, ;-)22:11
pokute_at more than 300 megs per minute the transfer speed seems faster than 770.22:12
kender|TBB|, touching the screen more than 1 second22:12
NickDeid say its about 3 seconds faster22:12
sitidoes the n800 support usb charging, it doesn't right?22:12
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jaebirdcan the n800 be used as a remote? is there an ir transmitter in it?22:13
NickDeno ir22:13
kenderNickDe, so, usb 1.1 too?22:13
|TBB|k, i was expected that, but i cant get a del/rename fuction for gaim22:13
sititvs should come with bluetooth :(22:13
nomissiti: build a bluetooth IR transmitter...  :)22:13
jaebirdor a wifi IR transmitter22:14
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jaebirdit just seems silly not to include ir on something that would be so cool to use as a remote22:15
shaprDoes anyone have the 6 digit CompUSA SKU number for the N800 handy?22:15
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nokwhich screen protector do you guys use?22:16
shaprfrom it looks like 344047 ... is that correct?22:16
|TBB|the gaim port guys wont care about rename and deleting buddys22:18
shaprkender: thanks22:18
kendershapr, ;-)22:18
* pahartik briefly thought that "Gaim" was good on Maemo 2.1, but quickly got back to "X-chat"22:22
|TBB|i will do the same i think22:23
|TBB|but what i like on gaim is buddylist22:24
pahartikkender: I could not comprehend "Gaim" at all... with "X-chat" if one can use application on desktop workstation to set things up as expected and then copy configuration files to Maemo system... (many configuration dialogs cannot be accessed well enough to see them completely or to close them)22:27
kenderI see22:27
kenderpahartik, I can't tell you my opinion, I'm not nokia owner22:28
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pahartikkender: I am just sharing my brief observations :)22:29
kenderpahartik, perfect!22:29
kenderI'll buy the n800, then, I'll tell you mines22:29
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shaprCool, my local store has four N800s in stock.22:32
shaprNow if only my bank account had the price of one in stock...22:32
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* pahartik was about to ask something about Nokia N800 but swiftly forgot what it was22:38
Zmanunobody speak yet about 770 :/22:38
|tbb|how can i auto set password and join channels with xchat on maemo22:39
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shaprZmanu: I have a 770, and I like it!22:40
shaprMy 770 has been in my hands for one year and two days.22:40
Zmanushapr, you have yet install scratchbox with armel ?22:40
shaprThough today it reboots very often >:-(22:41
Zmanuwhy is it reboot very often ?22:41
shaprI don't know.22:41
pahartik|tbb|: password for channel, IRC server or IRC network?22:42
shaprThe voice chat part of Google Talk is causing problems.22:42
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Zmanume i have a problem with sbox-config -st22:42
Zmanuwhen i'm log in one, it don't want to log in another :/22:44
|tbb|damn ive oppend the url grabber window but there iss no way to close it22:44
|tbb|btw password for the nick22:45
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pahartik|tbb|: next time do not open it :)22:45
|tbb|it seems every port has his problems22:46
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|tbb|lol every window u will open u will not ale to cose it with xchat22:49
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pahartik|tbb|: I got used to it within ~1 week22:50
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|tbb|damn that is very unuseable22:52
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pahartik|tbb|: IRC proxy helps22:55
|tbb|helps for what?22:57
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pahartik|tbb|: nobody on IRC networks would notice if my palmtop device exploded, laptop was stolen and desktop workstation crashed... :)22:57
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pahartik|tbb|: except for maybe noticing that I was quite irritated by those things happening23:01
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pahartik|tbb|: just trying to say that limitations and bugs of one IRC client does not have big effect on IRC session23:04
|tbb|could someone send me a priv msg, iwould like to know if i get a audio signal23:06
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|tbb|k it wont ring23:13
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shaprWill the N800 SD slot support SDHC cards? Or only SD?23:26
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|tbb|paharatik, if u want to know how to close additional window on xchat port just hit the hw key over the menu hw key23:27
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|tbb|over 2 seconds23:28
shaprI've found 8GB SDHC cards listed, and they claim to not be backwards compatible with SD slots. Does anyone know whether the N800 supports both SD and SDHC?23:28
keesjshapr, link?23:29
|tbb|i would like to see a ctrl+c button23:30
shapr"Devices that do not specifically support SD2.0/SDHC do not recognize SDHC memory cards."23:32
jtokash2shapr, I was just wondering that myself23:32
shaprThus my question whether the N800 supports SDHC.23:32
jtokash2you can get a 4gb for less than $100 on newegg23:32
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shaprOn the good side, if the N800 does support SDHC in both slots, I look forward to having an N800 with 64GB of storage.23:33
shapr32GB SDHC cards are not available yet, but that's the limit of the format.23:33
pahartik|tbb|: oh, holding <Esc> down for moment helps... that is good23:34
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jtokashI wasn't able to get canola and maemo mapper installed on my n800.  Does anyone have those working on the n800?23:37
tigertyeah, holding the "esc" (the key over menu" for a bit closes the current window23:37
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tigertjtokash: what was the problem?23:37
floriangood morning23:38
jtokashdependancy problems - the dependancies weren't there23:38
mgedminshapr: from this:  I think sdhc aren't supported, but will be eventually23:38
tigertjtokash: try installing debconf from terminal, if that satisfies deps23:38
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pahartiktigert: I have just avoided opening windows I cannot close... :)23:38
sitimmmh 64GB ;)23:38
tigertanyway, time to sleep23:39
tigertjtokash: in any case, running apt-get from terminal gives you more options23:39
tigertjtokash: as application installer is more strict on what it does23:39
tigertit does not ever uninstall anything to satisfy dependencies as far as I know23:39
tigertso it bails out easier than commandline apt23:39
tigertso its always good to see if the same works from terminal23:40
tigertit just plays safe :)23:40
tigertbut time to sleep, night!23:40
jtokashtigert, thanks for the info23:41
jtokashI'll follow Disconnect's xterm install instructions and then do as you say23:41
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shaprmgedmin: So the answer as I see it is "If the N800 has hardware/controller that's SD2.0 compatible, cards of up to 2TB will work if the software side (Linux) supports that."23:47
shaprSo the question is down to whether the N800 has SDHC (aka SD 2.0) hardware, right?23:49
shaprDoes anyone know the answer to that?23:49
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keesjit sounds so normal "cards of up to 2TB"23:52
* shapr grins23:55
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shaprkeesj: I'd be okay with one single card of 1TB23:55
shaprThat would hold my entire music collection!23:55
shaprAnd all my friends' music too!23:56
|tbb|plz anyone  send pm to me23:56
|tbb|pm =priv msg23:59

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