IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-01-06

*** chenca has quit IRC00:00
*** koen has joined #maemo00:02
*** luck has quit IRC00:04
*** tigert has joined #maemo00:05
*** etrunko has quit IRC00:05
*** Pio has joined #maemo00:32
*** tchan has quit IRC00:44
*** keesj_ has joined #maemo00:44
*** freaking2ux has joined #maemo00:47
*** keesj__ has quit IRC00:49
*** fab has quit IRC00:53
*** freaking1ux has quit IRC00:58
*** benzea_ has quit IRC01:01
*** tchan has joined #maemo01:14
*** mallum has quit IRC01:14
*** greentux is now known as greentux|zzz01:15
*** matt_c has quit IRC01:15
*** VRe has quit IRC01:18
*** xan has quit IRC01:32
*** koen has quit IRC01:37
*** Knowledge_ has quit IRC01:37
*** matt_c has joined #maemo01:40
*** rev has joined #maemo01:41
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo01:45
*** mgedmin has quit IRC01:46
*** ssvb has quit IRC01:50
*** Guard][an has quit IRC01:55
*** mat has quit IRC02:01
*** mat has joined #maemo02:02
*** sp3000 has quit IRC02:15
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC02:19
*** pdz has joined #maemo02:20
*** pdz- has quit IRC02:32
*** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk02:43
*** pdz- has joined #maemo02:52
*** pdz-_ has joined #maemo03:00
*** pdz has quit IRC03:06
*** pdz has joined #maemo03:07
*** pdz- has quit IRC03:13
*** pdz-_ has quit IRC03:21
*** spx2-away has joined #maemo03:26
spx2-awayPio , why you banned me bro ? whyd i ever do to you ? dont leave03:27
*** VRe has joined #maemo03:27
*** Pio has left #maemo03:27
*** rev has quit IRC03:28
*** spx2-away has left #maemo03:30
*** |tbb| has quit IRC03:42
*** vivijim has joined #maemo03:56
*** Aleksandyr has joined #maemo04:01
Aleksandyrso, uh, the N800 pictures. Not to mention the nice box.04:01
*** Aleksandyr has quit IRC04:04
*** chaos has joined #maemo04:08
*** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo04:11
*** X-Fade has quit IRC04:19
*** rev has joined #maemo04:22
*** rev has quit IRC04:43
*** rev has joined #maemo04:43
*** __shawn has quit IRC05:20
*** vivijim has quit IRC05:24
*** tchan has quit IRC05:50
*** tchan has joined #maemo05:51
*** spect has quit IRC05:53
*** rip has quit IRC06:15
*** rkaway3 has joined #maemo07:15
*** pdz- has joined #maemo07:18
*** rkaway2 has quit IRC07:23
*** pdz has quit IRC07:32
*** jtokash has joined #maemo07:37
jtokashI assume you already saw these photos of the n800, right?07:37
*** ssvb has joined #maemo07:41
*** __shawn has joined #maemo07:59
*** wall has joined #maemo08:37
myrendriving me nuts we still have no idea what the n800 is actually going to be08:38
myrenthere's a Crown coming out that looks to be a decent contendor08:39
*** wall has left #maemo08:42
desrtmmm.  hypothetical 770 followup gossip.  yummy :)08:43
desrtoh.  pictures.  that's somewhat less than hypothetical :)08:44
jtokashSome thoughts on the photos and a size comparison:
jtokashseems longer, but not as tall.  No good images to do thickness comparison, but it looks like similar thickness.09:00
*** freaking2ux has quit IRC09:00
*** keesj_ has quit IRC09:01
*** rev has quit IRC09:06
*** jserv2 has quit IRC09:08
*** jserv2_ has joined #maemo09:08
*** jserv2_ is now known as jserv209:09
*** keesj has joined #maemo09:33
*** jserv2_ has joined #maemo09:39
*** jserv2 has quit IRC09:40
jtokashmorning keesj09:47
jtokashNew nokia n800 photos:
keesj640×480 ? I can't believe that09:49
keesjo that is the webcam , hot news that is :)09:49
jtokashwell, it says VGA, so I assumed 640x48009:50
jtokashThe webcam isn't enough for me to upgrade, so I guess it's down to computing power.09:51
*** fab has joined #maemo09:51
jtokashalthough the new placement for the jacks is great09:51
keesjBrowser Compatibility with Google Video, YouTube. sounds pretty dam good09:52
jtokashI always hated the 770 having the jacks on the bottom09:52
jtokashnono - that's my wish09:52
jtokashnot fact09:52
jtokashbut, yes, youtube would be a big step up.09:52
jtokashAnd if it can do youtube, it can do fl0w.09:52
keesjI can only hope it will attract more developers , that is my real wish09:54
jtokashTrue.  If it maintains compatability with the 770, which I'm sure it will, developers will see it as a platform that's here for the long haul09:56
keesjI guess compatability  might be hard but if there is a build system that can build for the different targets I guess that's ok by me09:57
*** sabotage_afk has quit IRC10:01
*** sabotage_afk has joined #maemo10:01
*** sabotage_afk is now known as sabotage10:01
keesjbwt is readermini a gwt app or not?10:04
keesjI have a great time developing gwt apps it really work great10:04
jtokashI'm using php10:05
jtokashfor ajax, just prototype.js10:06
jtokashGWT intrigues me, but the whole compiling js from java thing bothers me10:06
jtokashIs it difficult to create new AJAX / DHTML controls?10:06
jtokashDo you write that code in js or java?10:06
keesjthat is really what I love, I can really develop in OO and it just works10:07
jtokashI'll give it a shot next time I have a project to do10:07
keesjI did so weird stuff with collections and filtering ,updating labels etc just works10:08
keesjand it's really open source now10:11
keesjbut anyway good to see that there is some continuation in the development. I would try not to spread that news to much10:14
keesjperhaps nokia want to first update the maemo site or other stuff that might increase the effect the device will have no developers10:15
*** niki has joined #maemo10:23
jtokashGoodnight everyone, time to go home10:29
*** jtokash has quit IRC10:30
*** Guardian has joined #maemo10:35
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo10:56
*** LostinNet has joined #maemo11:02
*** qgil has joined #maemo11:24
*** greentux|zzz has quit IRC11:31
*** snorkelyd has joined #maemo11:36
*** koen has joined #maemo11:44
*** greentux has joined #maemo11:45
*** fab has quit IRC12:12
*** xan has joined #maemo12:16
*** benzea has joined #maemo12:39
MDKgee, what's happening with weather here12:50
MDKqgil: don't buy this crap they say about "serious finnish winter" ;)12:51
tkoI blame global warming: :)12:53
tko(first christmas I can remember without snow...)12:53
MDKyeah, it's pretty scrary12:56
MDKthe grass is totally green in places12:56
MDKthe late & strong winter will hit the plants/crops seriously12:56
tkoI saw somewhere people were still playing golf12:58
MDKlet's go surfing in ruholahti12:59
tkok. you go first :)13:01
MDKoh, today is some kind of holiday?13:03
zuhIt's the browser day, you need to surf the net all day13:04
JaffaBlimey, the N800's black theme is nice.13:11
tkouhh.. I used to play super mario 3 a lot, but this guy is crazy:
tkothough I think the word I'm looking for is 'inhuman' :)13:21
JussiPOr "tool-assisted".13:24
tkodetails, schmetails13:25
JussiPThe fastest game played on the original hardware is here:
roope  I personally like these Quake nightmare speed runs.13:27
roopeSome of the levels are just incredible.13:27
*** zumbi has joined #maemo13:33
*** chiahsin has joined #maemo13:34
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo13:34
*** zumbi_ has quit IRC13:44
*** Pooh22 has joined #maemo13:52
*** booiiing has quit IRC14:24
*** booiiing has joined #maemo14:27
*** Veggen has left #maemo14:38
*** Veggen has joined #maemo14:38
*** pleemans has joined #maemo14:39
tkobugger, we didn't get mentioned in year 2007 predictions :-)14:47
keesjin 12 month you will perhaps become the "surprise of 2007"14:49
*** kender has joined #maemo14:56
kendernobody tells nothing about the N800?14:59
*** fab_ has joined #maemo15:02
*** pleemans has quit IRC15:03
keesjold news :)15:11
keesjhow about you?15:12
kenderkeesj, old news?15:14
keesjI saw the blog post this morning (a few hours ago)15:14
kenderand, that's old?15:14
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo15:15
glass_huh, nice15:17
qgilnice box15:18
*** bencer has joined #maemo15:19
*** kender has quit IRC15:20
*** djcb has joined #maemo15:21
keesj still thinks its Christma :)15:21
pahartikkeesj: but it is... until tomorrow :)15:26
pvanhoofdjcb, as in Dirk-Jan C. Binnema?15:33
pvanhoofor Rupert? :)15:33
djcbc'est moi15:34
pvanhoofah, et qui et toi?15:34
pvanhoofs vergeten :)15:34
pvanhoofes zelfs15:34
keesjsuis es est15:35
pvanhoofok, it's "est"15:36
pvanhoofI should use my french more often :)15:36
pvanhoofdjcb, if it's you, Dirk-Jan, I'm working on your partial message retrieval functionality15:36
pvanhoofit's already getting the message without attachments and writing it to the imap-cache15:37
djcbnot "your", "our"!15:37
pvanhoofbut not yet correctly, because it atm fails to detect the boundary15:37
pvanhoofI tried reusing the existing content-type parser of camel15:37
pvanhoofon the line15:37
pvanhoofthe Content-Type: Line15:37
pvanhoofand that didn't work, it seems15:37
pvanhoofso I had a fail situation where it simply cats the parts together15:38
pvanhoofand that is what its writing atm15:38
pvanhoofCamel has this neat feature in its cache15:38
pvanhoofthat allows to have multiple files for one message15:38
pvanhoofin the format of uid.PART_SPEC15:38
pvanhooffor example, 5.HEADER 5.TEXT, 5.1 5.1.HEADER15:38
pvanhoofhowever, that results in multiple CamelStream instances (FsStreams)15:39
pvanhoofand to get that working15:39
pvanhoofI would have to create a CamelStream that wraps more than one stream to one big stream15:39
pvanhoofto feed that to the Stream that is used to create the CamelWrapper which is in turn used to create the CamelMimeMessage15:39
pvanhoofam I speaking chineese? :)15:40
pvanhoofrereading my own stuff makes me think that :)15:40
djcbwell, let me try to parse it15:40
pvanhoofI'll try to explain what camel does15:40
pvanhoofit of course gets the data from the imap service15:40
pvanhoofthen it parses that into a buffer15:40
djcbyes, i understand your writing now...15:41
pvanhoofthat buffer gets put in a file stream on the file name uid + dot + part_spec15:41
pvanhoofa part_spec is the BODY.SEEK[part_spec]15:41
pvanhooffor example UID FETCH uid BODY.PEEK[1]15:41
pvanhoofthat would result in a file called uid.115:41
pvanhoofUID FETCH 5 BODY.PEEK[HEADER], that would become 5.HEADER15:42
pvanhoofhowever, that would be useful if I would have a way to turn multiple files into one stream15:42
pvanhoofbecause the data-wrapper object, which is like a real in a proxy pattern, which is used by CamelMimeMessage15:42
pvanhoofis basically a wrapper for a filestream15:42
pvanhoofso I could do it how I'm doing it now, that is .. rewrite the "5." file15:43
pvanhoofbecause, if there's no part_spec, then this for camel means that the entire file is the entire message15:43
pvanhooffor that I need to put the boundary in between each part, of course15:44
pvanhoofIF it's a multi-part15:44
djcbaha yes15:44
pvanhoofand that changes the message itself, actually15:44
pvanhoofbecause who knows how to message really looked like on the imap service15:44
pvanhoofwith or without the boundary15:44
pvanhoofit would be wrong without, but actually .. that's not up to me (the email client) to decide about15:44
djcbhmmm.... that could be problematic15:45
pvanhoofhowever, from the user perspective .. it's just for displaying the message15:45
djcbso... the imap server understands the mime-parts15:45
pvanhoofif he wants the entire message, we can use the non-partial strategy to fully get it15:45
pvanhoofyes, imap has a notion of parts15:45
djcbbut the if we do the sum of the parts15:46
pvanhoofUID FETCH uid BODY[part]15:46
djcbthat may not be exactly the same15:46
pvanhoofyes if I ask for everything, like this:15:46
pvanhoof UID FETCH uid BODY[]15:46
pvanhoofthen I get the boundaries inbetween the parts15:46
pvanhoofif I do it like this:15:46
djcbbut would it be different in any meaningful way?15:46
pvanhoofUID FETCH uid BODY[HEADER]15:46
pvanhoofUID FETCH uid BODY[1.HEADER]15:46
pvanhoofUID FETCH uid BODY[1]15:46
pvanhoofI don't get the boundaries15:46
djcbi mean, the content of the stuff we get from the server should be the same15:46
pvanhoofbut in the first I of course get the boundary in the headers of the message15:47
pvanhoofwell the only difference is that I programatically write the boundary15:47
djcband the mime part endings/beginnings are just markers for computer programs15:47
pvanhoofwhereas in reality, the e-mail client that wrote the e-mail did that15:47
pvanhoofthey are just markers indeed15:48
pvanhoofand if incorrect, the E-mail is fuckt15:48
djcbso if they are not really the same... well.15:48
djcbwell, not really. the user reads the same message15:48
pvanhoofwell under normal circumstances they will really be the same15:48
djcband does not care about the mime-stuff15:48
pvanhoofthe same bytes etc etc15:48
pvanhoofbut if the E-mail client who wrote the E-mail did it incorrect15:48
djcbin that case,15:48
pvanhoofthen it will no longer be incorrect15:48
djcbthe imap server will not get it right either, will it?15:49
pvanhoofand that is in itself incorrect to do for tinymail15:49
pvanhoofhmm, questionable15:49
djcbso, we trust the imap-server.15:49
djcbi think that is correct behaviour15:49
pvanhoofI don't think there is a spec for incorrect messages on the IMAP server15:49
djcbin this case15:49
pvanhoofI think the IMAP will simply look at it as if it's a non multi-part E-mail15:49
djcbwell, if we get parts 1-5 from the imap server15:49
djcbthen there are 1-5 parts15:50
pvanhoofwell, we are already altering the message by only partially fetching it anyway15:50
djcbif the imap server did not get it, the partial download will not work15:50
djcbtough luck15:50
djcbbut it's really a corner case i think, i someone sends b0rked messages15:51
djcbthat is what you get15:51
pvanhoofI need to lookup how a non multi-parts should look15:51
pvanhoofa non multipart shouldn't be fetched partially15:51
pvanhoofdoesn't matter whether or not the developer turned on partial message retrieval15:52
pvanhoofbecause there's only one part anyway15:52
pvanhoofok, so atm it's not yet like that. But I detect whether or not a message is a multi-part from the content-info15:52
pvanhoofand if multi-part and the developer picked the strategy for partial retrieval15:52
pvanhoofthen I will only get the parts HEADER, 1.HEADER and 115:53
pvanhoofif unsure, djcb , lookup what these parts mean in the IMAP rfc :)15:53
djcbwell there are basically three interesting ways:15:53
pvanhoofbecause that is what you will get15:53
djcb1) header-only, 2) header + body 3) header + body + attachments15:53
pvanhoofright, HEADER only , for that I (camel) use(s) UID FETCH %s (FLAGS, etc etc)15:54
pvanhoofso it doesn't even touch the BODY for that15:54
djcbsome impls i have seen have partial download of message text, but that is not *that* useful me thinks15:54
pvanhoofonly a part of the text?15:54
djcbyup;  it's downloaded as you scroll down15:54
pvanhoofthat's overkill15:55
pvanhoofmaybe for a device with less than 1 mb15:55
pvanhoofbut that device ain't going to run gobject and glib15:55
djcb(btw, easily to fake for demonstrations -- slow down the scrolling at put up a 'downloading' banner ;-)15:55
pvanhooftinymail is not a fake demonstration! it's the real thing :)15:55
djcbwell, there's are also people who keep themselves busy with useless features15:56
pvanhoofalso, camel is not suited to do this type of things15:56
pvanhoofthat would mean that I would have to implement a CamelImapMimePart15:56
pvanhoofbecause that part would not be offline anymore15:56
pvanhoofall of the mime-part handling of Camel is, at least more or less, provider neutral15:57
pvanhoofand offline15:57
djcbso let's be happy we don't want to do that15:57
* MDK wonders what's the difference between arm and arm26 arch15:57
pvanhoof'2' and '6'15:57
pvanhoofthey added two bytes to the memory that holds the version? :)15:58
pvanhoofhows your D adventure going MDK ? :) I mean on the Nokia 77015:59
pvanhoofdjcb, so I will try to squeeze that boundary out of the HEADER part :)15:59
pvanhoofand I will write that like this15:59
pvanhooffile 1. = { HEADER boundary 1.HEADER 1 boundary }16:00
pvanhoofLet me check whether that's how it should be written ..16:00
suihkulokkiMDK: the original arm was 26bit memory bus16:00
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:01
pvanhoofNote sure about the last boundary16:01
pvanhoofI bought two Philips wireless headphones16:02
pvanhoofone said on the box: surround etc etc16:02
pvanhoofthe other said something about bass boost16:02
pvanhoofboth are exactly the same16:02
pvanhoofsame number, same features, exactly the same sound16:03
pvanhoofsame base stations etc etc16:03
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:03
pvanhoofsame internals (you can look at them if you swap batteries)16:03
djcbsame price?16:03
pvanhoofyes lucky me16:03
djcbit's all marketing man :)16:03
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:03
pvanhoofanother funny thingy is that those guys at the store where I bought it (I had one defect headphone)16:04
pvanhoofsimply payed it back, in cash16:04
pvanhoofand didn't give me a credit note16:05
pvanhoofyet I got a third invoice for the new working headphone16:05
pvanhoofdon't know what my accountant is going to say about that :)16:05
MDKsuihkulokki: ah, thanks16:05
pvanhoof"a credit note, what is that" asked the dude16:05
MDKpvanhoof: building a reliable self-sustained build system for the complete toolchain now16:06
pvanhoofI tried to explain, so he told me .. oh, can you come back when .. bla bla16:06
pvanhoofMDK, cool16:06
pvanhoofwell, I'm atm working on features for djcb  :), else I would be helping you right now16:06
pvanhoofcrap, because I mentioned the headphones .. I started listening to this elektro switch cd. and now I'm addicted to this song16:08
MDKthe gtk-d bindings (duit) don't look very good at first sight though16:08
pvanhoof(oh, "Switch" is a Belgian radio show on studio brussels)16:08
pvanhoofMDK, imho they should create a compiler plugin that recognizes GObject and GTypeInterface as class and interface in D16:09
pvanhoofand forget about such bindings16:09
MDKpvanhoof: yeah, I know. But that's... hell of work16:09
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:10
pvanhoofI haven't looked at the compiler structs for types like interfaces and classes16:10
pvanhoofso I don't know (nor am I a compiler specialist)16:10
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:11
pvanhoofwell, I could write "yet" now. But I'm uncertain if compilers interest me16:11
MDKmy knowledge about compilers orbits around zero too16:11
djcbwould it not be easier to generate proxy classes on the fly for GObject using introspection?16:11
pvanhoofit's still going to be proxies, right16:11
pvanhoofwhat about GTypeInterface16:11
pvanhoofyou can't proxy that and keep multiple implements for interfaces16:12
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:12
pvanhoofunless you adopt multiple inheritance, as in C++, which is .. well. no don't do that16:12
pvanhoofthen a compiler plugin is better :)16:12
MDKmy current thinking is to write a API parser to generet GObject bindings in ruby16:12
MDKlike GAPI parser16:12
djcbwell D does not support that anyway16:12
pvanhoofit supports interfaces, and gtypeinterface can be viewed as such an interface16:12
djcb(i meant MI)16:13
pvanhoofbut to implement one in D, you would have to feed a proxy gobject that implements the gtypeinterface with delegates from D16:13
pvanhoofD shouldn't support MI16:13
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:13
djcbi guess...16:13
pvanhoofnor does16:13
pvanhoofso D is right now, no need to change that16:13
*** kender has joined #maemo16:13
djcbsure; so you have to find a new trick for GTypeInterface16:14
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:14
pvanhoofbut then to support gtypeinterface correctly (and superb) , would require a compiler plugin that recognizes them "as" D interfaces16:14
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:14
pvanhoofwell, the current trick is to create a GObject implementations that accepts a struct with all the implementations as function pointers16:14
pvanhoofand write that struct instance in D16:14
pvanhoofusing D delegates16:14
pvanhoofsame for C#16:14
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:15
pvanhoofbut that's a lot work, not as easy as "class : MyInterface { }16:15
pvanhoofetc etc16:15
pvanhoofand for each gtypeinterface you implement, you would need to create a new such struct instance16:15
pvanhooftry explaining that to a novice :(16:16
djcbmaybe forget about implementing GTypeInterfaces in D16:16
djcbwhat about defining them in D16:16
pvanhoofredefining them?16:16
djcband implementing them in C or whatever16:16
pvanhoofyes, but then you still need to always implement them in C16:16
pvanhooffor example the TnyAccountStore16:16
pvanhoofI want people to implement that in Python, C#, D16:17
pvanhoofor the TnyMsgView, same story16:17
pvanhoofwell, that's the final target of the language bindings16:17
pvanhoofif then can do that, it's enough for me16:18
pvanhoofI'm probably now going to use gobject class implementations that accept such struct instances with function pointers coming from the alien language16:18
*** Veggen has quit IRC16:18
pvanhoofwith the assumption that each higher language has a technique to turn a method into a C function pointer (like in C#: delegates(16:19
pvanhoof(there's a way to convert that in C#)16:19
*** Veggen has joined #maemo16:19
pvanhoof(and let it pass "this" as first parameter of the function, just like the typical gobject situation)16:19
pvanhoofbecause a delegate in C# contains a "this" reference afaik16:19
pvanhoofbut mdk is going to correct me if not :)16:20
pvanhoofdjcb, did you check out the concept of the partial message retrieval. With the strategies?16:23
pvanhoofand, you like?16:23
djcbyeah, just returned home after and went trough the office to get my machine16:23
djcbso now i will read it16:24
djcband you get your reply the w.e.16:24
pvanhoofok :)16:24
pvanhoofwell, it's already working (the concept itself). so you'll need a good reason to make me change it now16:24
djcbbtw, have any of the camel patches been accepted upstream?16:24
pvanhoofI don't focus on that anymore16:25
djcbhard to argue with a working implementation16:25
pvanhoofharish and varadhan asked me about it yesterday16:25
pvanhoofor, somebody asked16:25
pvanhoofon their channel16:25
djcbno need to focus on it, but just send them the patches16:25
pvanhoofand harish and varadhan replied on what I was mumbling16:25
pvanhoofah, they have all the patches16:25
pvanhoofit's on their mailing list16:25
pvanhoofnote that if I send it to their mailing list16:26
pvanhoofthat it means, by my contract with Novell, that they are allowed to transfer copyright ownership16:26
pvanhoofso, if there's a piece that I do for Nokia on which Nokia wants to keep the copyright no matter what16:26
pvanhoofthen do tell me before I send it to their mailing list16:26
pvanhoofbecause a contributions to Camel does not HAVE to be copyright transferred. It's just that it wont ever get put upstream unless they are allowed to transfer the ownership16:27
pvanhoofbut upstream doesn't matter for tinymail16:27
djcbthat's just fine.16:29
pvanhoofhmm Royksopp, I have to listen to more of their stuff16:29
pvanhoofPoor listeners of my next tinymail demo :)16:29
MDKpvanhoof: what are you working on for Novell? (if not a secret)16:29
pvanhoofMDK, nothing16:30
pvanhoofMDK, but I once did a larger Evolution contribution16:30
pvanhoofand for such, they ask you to sign a contract16:30
pvanhoofwhich basically says that they are allowed to strip every Evolution work you do, and transfer copyright16:30
MDKah, I see16:30
MDKI thought they're switching to tinymail16:30
pvanhoofhowever, I added to that that it's ONLY about stuff that I send to THEIR mailing list16:30
pvanhoofbecause the original copyright was vague about that16:31
pvanhoofwell, I wouldn't AT ALL agree with a copyright ownership transfer of tinymail code16:31
pvanhoofunless they payed me for each and every specific piece that needs ownership transfer16:31
pvanhoofand I would ask a lot :)16:31
pvanhoofso don't worry :)16:32
MDKit would be a nice paradox seeing novell switching to tm16:33
djcbi thought they were switching to Outlook Express?16:33
pvanhoofwell, considering how their code on top of Camel looks16:33
pvanhoofit would make sense16:33
pvanhoofCamel is at times a real mess16:33
pvanhoofbut what they have build on top, wow sometimes16:34
pvanhoofbut for being a mess, Camel is a more or less good mess16:34
MDKdjcb: that's a good one ;)16:34
MDKbtw, speaking about D... maybe we just write a utility that'll convert GObject code into native D object code? ;)16:35
pvanhoofMDK, try reading the code that displays a message :)16:35
MDKand recompile whole gtk in D16:35
pvanhoofdon't get mad at the goto statements16:35
pvanhoofMDK, sounds good16:35
pvanhoofand upset the entire community :D16:35
pvanhoofbecause we forked their beloved gtk+ :)16:36
pvanhoofand because we didn't use c++, bla, Python, Quiton, Xton, Yton, Zeroton, Phpton, Z, L, X16:36
pvanhoofdon't forget P16:36
djcbd does not support amd64, so it sucks :)16:37
MDKfortunately it "supports" Gentoo ;)16:38
MDKbtw, we had an interesting discussion with xan yesterday16:38
MDKseems the next QT is going to be a kick ass16:38
pvanhoofwhy this time?16:42
MDKthey've done some really advanced work on the acceleration/hw layer16:43
MDKand they've got much more people working on QT than people working on Gtk16:43
pvanhoof2959                                        if (ct)16:43
pvanhoof(gdb) print *c16:43
pvanhoofNo symbol "c" in current context.16:43
pvanhoof(gdb) print *ct16:43
pvanhoofstupid gdb16:43
MDK -- this guy has a nice blog of QT happenings16:44
djcbah; looks cool16:48
robtaylorMDK: yeah i'm actually pretty jealous of some of the stuff they have in qt416:52
MDKwho is behind QT? Sony? Who else?16:53
djcbskype uses it16:54
djcbnobody makes money from gtk right now16:55
MDKnot directly16:55
zuhFrom maintaining gtk at least...16:56
robtaylori'm sure people get paid to hack on it from time to time16:56
MDKI think companies such as nokia or novell should hire/sponsor people just to work on gtk16:56
zuhThat's not maintaining :)16:56
MDKwork on -> general work on16:57
MDKno just "fix what we need at this moment"16:57
robtaylorMDK: i'm sure that's been done at times in the past, but then those people get pulled off to work on other things16:57
* robtaylor looks at dbus-glib sadly16:58
robtaylornng, that reminds me, need to do a release16:58
koenrobtaylor: did you see yet?16:59
* robtaylor looks17:00
robtaylorkoen: oh its zeenix's, cool :)17:02
koen"Gabriel is a simple utility to enable D-Bus clients to connect to a D-Bus daemon running on a remote machine, through SSH."17:02
* robtaylor looks at the code17:02
robtaylorhmm, svn repo is empty17:03
robtayloroh, clicked cvs by accident17:04
pvanhoofrobtaylor, any news on the shmem and queue implementation for a dbus transport?17:04
* pvanhoof still extremely interested in that17:04
robtaylorpvanhoof: nothing was ever started17:04
pvanhoofdjcb, it's implemented17:04
djcbgreat work!17:05
pvanhoofpvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ scp Screenshot.png
pvanhoofin the background you see the Evolution "view source" screen17:06
pvanhoofwell, "implemented"17:07
pvanhoofI still need to fix it up so that tinymail "sees" the mime parts17:07
robtaylorkoen: i'd have though just a new transport in libdbus would be more sensible17:07
pvanhoofbut doesn't have them17:07
pvanhoofso that you can tell the user something like: oeps, you need to go online and download the entire message to view this mime part17:07
pvanhoofdjcb, but the basics are in place17:08
djcbvery cool17:08
pvanhoofpvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ ls -alh /home/pvanhoof/.tinymail/mail/imap/
pvanhoof-rw------- 1 pvanhoof pvanhoof 1.4K 2007-01-06 16:04 /home/pvanhoof/.tinymail/mail/imap/
pvanhoofpvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ ls -alh /home/pvanhoof/.evolution/mail/imap/
pvanhoof-rw------- 1 pvanhoof pvanhoof 971K 2007-01-05 15:46 /home/pvanhoof/.evolution/mail/imap/
djcbi really think you deserve a beer now....17:09
pvanhoofyes :)17:09
pvanhoofbut I only drink cocktails17:09
pvanhoofmy body only accepts expensive cocktails17:09
djcbi know, i know17:09
* pvanhoof looks if he was not having a porn window on that screenshot17:10
pvanhoofno, I wasn't17:10
djcbcodepr0n is the best17:11
pvanhoofoh and, u:tinymailunittest p:unittest17:11
pvanhoofso you can see the E-mail yourself17:12
pvanhoofoh, there's one discrepancy and that's misordering of the boundaries17:12
pvanhoofI'm checking that17:12
pvanhoofit should be HEADER boundary 1.HEADER 1 boundary17:13
pvanhoofnow it's HEADER boundary 1.HEADER boundary 1 boundary17:13
pvanhoofI'll send a premature diff to the mailing list17:13
djcbgreat stuff17:14
pvanhoofdjcb, now, it WOULD (hehe, in capitals, guess what) be possible to not receive the 1.HEADER, 1 nor HEADER anymore17:16
pvanhoofyet reconstruct the entire message17:16
pvanhoofI'm more in favor of simply removing the file from the cache, and retrieving it from scratch17:16
pvanhoofin case the user switched from partial to full17:16
pvanhoofand it detected that a message was previously retrieved as partial17:17
djcbyeah; i agree17:17
pvanhoofbecause well ... the part that was received is small17:17
djcboverhead should be negligible17:17
pvanhoofthe "think pragmatic" style17:17
djcbgetting things done;)17:18
pvanhoofand the "fuck the user who has to pay for GPRS" thinking17:18
pvanhoofmaybe Nokia can let Vodaphone pay for letting me remove this feature all together so that users have to pay more for bandwidth17:18
pvanhoofanyway, the core is done. But most of the work is the jingle bells around it17:19
pvanhoofso noo, it's not finished :) djcb17:19
pvanhoofthe problem with the boundary was that I decoded the boundary at "Content-Type: multi..."17:20
pvanhoofin stead of at "multi.."17:20
pvanhoofso, strchr(ptr, ':'); if (ptr) ptr++ ...17:20
djcbfun fun fun17:21
pvanhoofdjcb, ehm17:26
pvanhoofthis does mean, however, but it was already the case17:26
pvanhoofthat a normal Camel will NOT work17:26
pvanhoofin other words, nothing changes17:26
pvanhoofit just adds to the "it will not work" reasons17:26
*** benzea_ has joined #maemo17:27
pvanhoofrobtaylor, are you guys coming to fosdem?17:30
pvanhoofdjcb, are you? :)17:30
djcbi might yeahy17:31
djcbwhy don't they have such conferences in sunny places :)17:31
*** benzea has quit IRC17:34
MDKfernando prposed it recently, I think we'll be coming too17:35
MDK(I mean, to fosdem)17:35
MDKnot generally coming17:36
pvanhoofdjcb, :)17:36
pvanhoofaha ok17:36
pvanhoofyes, get all the Finnish dudes over :)17:36
robtaylorpvanhoof: for sure17:37
MDKI think tickets from here I pretty cheap17:37
* koen wonders if the embedded room will be big enough17:37
pvanhoofmaybe ask the organization to do some presentations (just don't make it sound like you are advertising for Nokia. They are not so much into sponsoring)17:37
pvanhoofkoen, :)17:37
pvanhoofmaybe we should warn them :)17:37
robtaylorkoen: heh, probably not17:37
pvanhoofhey, you guys should have visited t-dose17:38
* koen should remember to arrange lunches for the OE booth people17:38
pvanhoofin comparison with the material speakers get at fosdem17:38
pvanhooft-dose was awesome17:38
koenpvanhoof: hey, I visited t-dose!17:38
pvanhoofkoen, yes, the day before I was there ! :)17:38
pvanhoofkoen, but hey .. the projector and rooms where coool17:38
pvanhoofgreat university :)17:39
pvanhoofI met maybe four people .. but hey17:39
pvanhoofguys from irex showing an epaper device17:39
pvanhoofthe LogFS dude17:39
pvanhoofthat's the right people to meet , right? :)17:40
*** pleemans has joined #maemo17:46
pvanhoofoh MDK17:47
pvanhoofif you visit fosdem17:47
pvanhoofthink .. Belgium, chocolat17:47
qgil"N770 would be a very lucrative platform for embedded design..." I don't quite get this paragraph17:48
qgilmaybe it's the Epiphany hangover my stomach is suffering at the end of Xman17:49
qgilhi there  :)17:49
qgilBelgium, pommes17:49
kenderI'm thinking about not getting the N870 after all. It's too expensive. And then the software on it is crippled.17:50
kenderhe knows the price?17:50
kenderpleaseee tell us!17:51
qgilHe seems to be well informed, yesterday he wrote in another blog post: "I talked with a buddy of mine and he said that they are nowhere near releasing the N870 at Nokia" -
qgilanyway, in fact I was interested in his opinion about Maemo: "Ofcourse some firm may pickup N770 and use it as an embedded development platform, but there is no support available for that from nokia, not counting maemo, but I'm not sure if firms want to use maemo for their development needs."17:58
koenrobtaylor: old news :)17:58
robtaylorqgil: well its a fair statement, maemo is pretty crappy, tbh17:59
tkorobtaylor, why?17:59
suihkulokki"My plan for running qmail/djbdns on a N870 device is not realizing"17:59
qgilthe guy is living in Finland and has posted about Maemo in other occasions -
robtaylortko: well, built using old scratchbox and no resync with debian for a start18:00
qgilrobtaylor: I'll tell you 2 things18:00
robtaylortko: its a prin for every package to have to refactor teh packaging for compat 418:00
qgil1. I'll find the time to ask you why you think this about maemo18:00
qgiland write notes not to forget anything  :)18:00
qgil2. you were put as an example in one of the interviews I had during my selection process  :)18:01
qgilI think it was me the first one bringing up your name18:01
robtaylorqgil: i was? crazy =)18:01
robtaylorqgil: i'll be over in HEL next week if you want to meet up18:01
tkorobtaylor, if those are all, then we're doing fine IMO :)18:02
qgilI'm landing in HEL the 13th, late18:02
tko(quite different from the usual complaints)18:02
qgilwith partner and 2 kids, perhaps not the most appropriate moment  ;)18:02
robtaylorqgil: ah well, meybe next time :)18:03
tkorobtaylor, and yes, I have suffered myself with debian/compat and stuff18:03
robtaylortko: yeah, we all know the problems with maemo if we're honest ;)18:03
lleanything not using sb2 is obsolete18:03
tkoanything using sb2 is not working :)18:04
llethat may be ;)18:04
robtaylorlle: i was about to say, is sb2 working yet?!18:04
llerobtaylor: well, it kind of does18:04
qgiltko: I hope you will be patient with me  :)18:05
robtaylori remember getting the lowdown from tommi a while back, and it seems like a very sensible plan18:05
llebut there are some things like fakeroot, debian packaging etc. that I've no personal interest in, and thus they are not working at all18:05
lleand it's wildly experimental at the moment18:05
llebut good enough to build xorg18:05
llefor arm18:05
tkoqgil, we'll just have to wait and see18:05
lleand busybox18:05
llexorg using --prefix=/usr and installing18:06
robtaylortko: ooi, what are the complaints you usually get?18:06
tkoqgil, I'm being optimistic, but probably somewhat frustrated when it comes to timing18:06
* qgil can't talk about timing yet18:07
tkorobtaylor, badly documented, strangely different from what people expect, lack of visibility18:07
lleI'd say that functionality/kilobyte ratio of sb2 is thoroughly trouncing sb118:08
tkoqgil, no rush, you need to decorate first anyway :)18:08
qgilit's more about packaging, I believe  :)18:08
tkolle, so is there someone more or less regularly working on sb2 or is it just a one man's pet project?18:09
lletko: it's one mans obsession, not a pet project18:09
robtaylortko: oh, well i'd agree with that too ;)18:09
tkorobtaylor, old news, eh? :)18:09
robtaylortko: heh, indeed ;)18:09
lleI personally hate integration, so I don't understand how I ended up creating tools that help doing it18:09
tkolle, well, um, to avoid doing it?18:10
lletko: that may be it ;)18:11
lleI'd say that if you'd create a new distro from scratch18:11
lleyou could use sb2 and by not being an idiot, be quite happy with it18:12
llebut it's much harder with this debian packaging crap18:12
robtaylorlle: but if you're doing that, you might as well use OE ;)18:12
llerobtaylor: I don't like how OE solves cross-compilation ;)18:12
*** obi has quit IRC18:12
robtaylorlle: i can't see much point in using sb other then for buildind preexisting distros ..18:13
keesjI played with openwrt , I like that is's quite simple18:13
robtaylorlle: well, i know what you mean.. there's not really a nice solution to the problem though18:13
MDKI wonder if apple is going to release an ipod with a touch screen18:14
MDKon macworld that is18:14
keesjI love SB two18:14
robtaylorMDK: and bluetooth hopefully ;)18:14
MDKrobtaylor: and GSM ;)18:14
llerobtaylor: I'm hoping that maybe sb2 will become a nice solution, not sure yet. there's a danger that it'll end up going down a slippery slope like sb1 did.18:14
robtaylorMDK: and A PONY!18:14
llerobtaylor: a different slippery slope but a slope anyway18:15
robtaylorlle: yeah :/18:15
MDKI read they're building iphones in 12 million copies for a start18:15
suihkulokkiI read a rumour in internet so it must be true ;)18:16
kenderwhat do you think about it?18:16
robtaylorlle: i once tried implemening support in autotools for building noinst tools on teh host, but all that M4 made my head explode18:16
llerobtaylor: I know exactly what you mean :D18:17
robtaylorkender: seems pretty expensive to me.18:17
kenderbut, available, and no official notice of nokia?18:18
robtaylori must chat to hugsie a bit, i don't like this whole idea of moving over to python based autotools replacements..18:18
robtaylorthat's a scary proposition for cross building18:19
MDKbtwm it's funny the "google gtalk BETA" logo on N800 box18:19
MDKgoogle maybe the "BETA" a logo slogan18:19
robtaylorMDK: that last sentence didn't wuite make sense to me..18:20
Disconnectlooks like its going for $400USD18:20
MDKrobtaylor: I mean that they made "BETA" a "value"18:20
kenderand, in europe? 400 €? 375?18:20
Disconnectanyone know what sw its got? (same as 770, or maybe bt kb support...?)18:21
kenderwith the nokia 770, what the do? 350 € / 350 $ USD?18:21
* Disconnect might have to go to compusa today18:21
kenderDisconnect, no idea, only speculation18:21
llerobtaylor: I've been thinking about creating a completely automatic build system replacement system... would trace the build on a couple of platforms, figure out what are the diffs and create a sensible make based equivalent.18:22
lleI'm only half joking18:22
suihkulokkibsd or gnu make?18:23
* suihkulokki ducks18:23
llesuihkulokki: I was mainly thinking of nmake ;)18:23
*** keesj has quit IRC18:23
robtaylorlle: mmm, i wouldn't go for that myself. I think you need your build rules to be well defined18:24
*** kender has quit IRC18:25
llerobtaylor: true, but since currently most build systems are total crap anyway, the loss wouldn't be big.18:26
* robtaylor actually rather likes autotools18:27
robtaylori maybe sick, but... ;)18:27
pvanhoofit's a love-hate relationship for me18:28
pvanhoofI love it because it does everything I need18:28
pvanhoofI hate it because, well .. if you do something wrong. It's crap to know what you did wrong18:28
pvanhoofand being a human, I constantly do things wrong18:28
lleautotools based things work reasonably well with sb218:28
Disconnectits in stock locally, maybe i'll go out tonight18:28
MDKyeah, I know the feeling18:29
pvanhoofbut, I would like a native gmake.exe and bash.exe for Windows so that I can compile without needing cygwin using autotools18:29
pvanhoofor can I already do that?18:29
MDKit's like the last thought of a hangman18:29
MDKfirst there is a denial -- you hate it (autotools) with all the might18:29
MDKyou refuse to accept it18:30
pvanhoofbecause I'm looking at glib atm, and it looks like I will have to convert the of glib to nmake.exe Makefiles18:30
MDKyou fight against it18:30
MDKyou search for solutions18:30
pvanhoofyes, and you'll hate the solutions even more :)18:30
MDKand than you fail and accept the irreversible fate18:30
c0ffeeautomake doesn't require gmake18:30
MDKof using autotools, since everything else is a crap18:30
pvanhoofah, so it generates a Makefile that works with nmake.exe c0ffee ?18:30
c0ffeeif nobody added other strange rules to the, yes18:31
pvanhoofsee, the thing is that I'm trying to port glib to WinCE18:31
pvanhoofI already finished getting pthread-win32 working on WinCE18:31
pvanhoofnow iconv and then glib itself18:31
robtaylorpvanhoof: cool stuff :)18:31
*** sxpert_ has quit IRC18:31
pvanhoofrobtaylor, yep. Widening our market :)18:32
pvanhoofonce glib is running, I think gtk+ is a small step18:32
pvanhoofit looked a little bit at tml's work, and not really a lot isn't available on WinCE (of what is being used)18:33
pvanhoofafter that, getting gtk-sharp working with the Compact Framework .NET18:34
pvanhoofand I swear .. omg, so many mobile Windows developers HATE System.Windows.Forms of Compact Framework .NET18:34
pvanhoofthey would beg at Collabora for various technology-porting projects :)18:34
pvanhoofif I just see the swearing about SWF on CF.NET at my company, I sometimes really wonder howcome no Microsoft employees have been murdered18:35
pvanhoofyet, it's .NET and it MUST run WinCE (because the customer asked that, period)18:36
pvanhooftwo things that are "it MUST be that" on which whatever Linux device will always fail the acceptance18:36
pvanhoofand yes, it's political for a lot customers/companies18:37
pvanhoofdoesn't matter, bring gtk+ to it18:37
suihkulokkithe "must run windows" is workaroundable18:40
* suihkulokki remembers a projects with "must run windows" ending up implement with samba and wine running "flying windows" screensaver18:41
pvanhoofwell, I don't think cygwin works on WinCE18:41
pvanhoofah, that way :)18:41
pvanhoofwell, problem two is that the sales people often get nice extras from Microsoft18:41
pvanhoofmost consultants know this :) btw18:42
pvanhoofso they don't even try18:42
pvanhoofso why the heck would the sales dude want to help the customer by giving him a Linux mobile device?18:42
pvanhoofit's a risk, he gains less, and it's MUCH harder to find developers18:42
pvanhoof"so what if wince can't do that application, then we will just sell a mobile device with more resources"18:43
pvanhoofend of discussion :)18:43
*** greentux has quit IRC18:44
pvanhoof-- note, this is often about custom software development for companies that actually use the mobile devices, not so much people who play with it --18:44
pvanhoofdjcb, other option for writing the messages19:12
pvanhoofdjcb, or, I keep the messaged a multipart19:12
pvanhoofbut in reality it's not really a multipart anymore, because it only contains one part19:12
pvanhoofwell, then it's of course a multi part with one part19:13
pvanhoofbut this is a little bit more tricky for your TnyMsgView implementation19:13
pvanhoofconsider that if it's a multipart/alternative19:13
pvanhoofand the preferred alternative for your TnyMsgView implementation is text/html19:13
pvanhoofbut because multiparts are cropped to one part, only the text/plain is in the cache19:14
pvanhoofso now the TnyMsgView thinks that this is a text/html one, yet it only has a text/plain part19:14
djcbyeah, that would not be good19:15
pvanhoofso under normal circumstances it would just display the text/html one, but now it will have to do the fail situation19:15
pvanhoofsee the other solution is to totally rewrite the message19:15
pvanhoofso, walk all the headers and replace the Content-Type one to the content-type of part 119:15
pvanhoofget the UID FETCH 1 BODY[HEADER]19:15
pvanhoofget the UID FETCH 1 BODY[1.HEADER]19:16
djcbthat seems wrong19:16
pvanhoofreplace the Content-Type of the first with the one of 1.HEADER19:16
pvanhoofyes well, else it's going to be a Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="ABC"19:16
pvanhoofin HEADER19:16
pvanhoofand in 1.HEADER it will be for example plain/text19:16
pvanhooferr text/plain19:16
pvanhoofyet in the CamelMessageInfo it will say that there's a text/html part19:17
pvanhoofso in case the TnyMsgView uses that info (it doesn't atm, but it should and could)19:17
pvanhoofthe thing is why it someday should, is that that way .. you don't need to parse the entire message19:17
pvanhoofand if some day we will do the "per part a file" trick: 1.HEADER 1.1.HEADER and 1.1 in the cache19:18
pvanhooffor a one mime-part message19:18
pvanhoofthat would reduce the amount of open files to only two19:18
pvanhoofelse for just knowing which mime parts are available, it would need to open all files19:19
pvanhoofthat is a reason why I did it in one file for now by the way19:19
pvanhoofbecause it wouldn't matter anyway19:19
pvanhoofthe thing here is , memory consumption again19:19
pvanhoofopening the big file and parsing it is of course more intense for memory than opening only the files that correspond to the mime parts that you ARE viewing19:20
djcbwell, the mem consumption of a message without atts is not too bad19:20
pvanhoofyes but with is19:20
pvanhoofsome messages will have attachments19:20
pvanhoofunless the software on top of tinymail completely disables full message retrieval of course19:21
pvanhooffor now I'm going to keep it this way19:22
pvanhoofthe patch, by the way, writes the messages wrong19:22
pvanhoofI corrected this, and then you need to disable checking whether the alternatives is fulfilled19:22
pvanhoofas in19:22
pvanhoofif it's a multipart/alternative, only one should be shown19:22
pvanhoofit will show an empty mime part19:22
pvanhoofif you disabled the "break" that stops the loop if the right alternative mime part is showed19:23
pvanhoofthen it'll show all (correctly)19:23
djcbin fact, if you _know_ you only want to display the html part, you don't even need to download19:23
djcbthe other part19:23
djcbbut that is just a little optimization19:23
pvanhoofindeed but .. that implies knowing that19:23
pvanhoofwhich means letting the view tell that to the call that gets the message19:24
pvanhoofbecause what you will view , is ui (view) business19:24
pvanhoofand next to that19:24
djcbwell, you can check the mime-type (per part) using IMAP, can't you?19:24
pvanhoofyou are sure that you will have a part called 119:24
pvanhoofbut you can't easily know what part is the html one19:25
pvanhoofto know that you need to fetch each partnumber.HEADER19:25
pvanhoofso UID FETCH 1 BODY.PEEK[n.HEADER]19:25
pvanhoofand read the Content-Type19:25
pvanhoofwell that consumes bandwidth of course :)19:25
pvanhoofand the html one is often not going to display good19:25
djcbbut esp. on gprs it might be faster just do download the damn thing19:25
pvanhoofbecause the images are not fetched19:26
pvanhoofyes, it's also more requests19:26
pvanhoof1 is always available19:26
djcbit can be 1+ sec per request19:26
pvanhoofsometimes 1 is the html one19:26
djcbon some gprs19:26
pvanhoofawch for getting the summary info then :)19:26
pvanhoofit does get the messages in batches of 1000 at the time19:27
pvanhoofbut once that is received, I think it's message per message asking for it19:27
pvanhoofI tried to get this right, to ask for all messages in on go19:27
pvanhoofbut that just didn't work on all IMAP servers19:27
pvanhoofmaybe I should investigate that a little bit19:27
pvanhooforiginal Camel however19:27
pvanhoofthat is crazy19:28
pvanhoofthe requests are HUGE19:28
pvanhooffor just the flags, they send really a lot of bytes19:28
pvanhoofper message19:28
djcbwell, the bytes are less of a problem than the # of reqs19:28
pvanhoof'll check refreshing the summary then19:29
djcbbut lemme take a shower now, i just back from running :)19:29
pvanhoofI'll probably be gone to tinne once you are back :(19:29
*** __shawn has quit IRC19:29
pvanhooftyped the wrong character19:29
pahartikpvanhoof: which IMAP client are you talking about?19:29
pvanhoofthis is about tinymaqil19:30
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo19:35
*** greentux has joined #maemo19:36
djcbpvanhoof: ok - say 'hi' to her :-)19:39
pvanhoofwill do19:39
pvanhoofdjcb, it seems that the summary fetching thingy does group it19:41
pvanhoofthat is the thing that groups them19:41
pvanhoof#define UID_SET_LIMIT  (768)19:42
pvanhoofthat's the max len19:42
pvanhoofso each 768's message, a new request is sent19:42
pahartikpvanhoof: better IMAP client for Maemo sounds good19:42
pvanhoofpahartik, search for tinymail, read about its development on the trac19:42
pvanhoofand join the fun19:43
pvanhoofbut I gtg now19:43
*** djcb has quit IRC20:17
*** spect has joined #maemo20:18
Disconnectnobody got one yet?20:21
c0ffeei got a 870!20:21
c0ffeedisregard that20:21
MDK"/whois c0ffee" ;)20:28
tkonokianinjas.set_target "c0ffee"20:29
c0ffeewhat's wrong with my whois?20:31
*** arj has joined #maemo20:41
qgilc0ffee: ru ?20:49
*** pleemans has quit IRC20:50
qgil(sorry if the question is obvious, my limited memory is having a hard time relating names with IDs with URLs without hackergotchis or pictures  :) )20:52
arjwill there be an software upgrade after the nokia 800 has been released or will the 800 use the same version as the 770 currently uses?20:54
*** __shawn has joined #maemo20:57
*** __shawn has joined #maemo20:59
c0ffeeqgil, yes21:09
c0ffeemy 870 uses an upgraded software21:10
*** mk500 has quit IRC21:10
c0ffeesince it has lots of new fancy hardware features21:11
c0ffeelike builtin camera, gps, sim card support etc21:11
*** greentux_alt has joined #maemo21:17
*** wasabi_ has quit IRC21:25
*** wasabi_ has joined #maemo21:26
*** |tbb| has quit IRC21:29
arjnice can you see what version it is?21:35
*** obi has joined #maemo21:35
*** Pooh22 has quit IRC21:35
*** greentux has quit IRC21:36
c0ffeethat NDA that came with the device doesn't allow me to share this information, sorry21:36
koenpretty loose NDA21:38
koenif it allows you to say you have an NDA ;)21:38
c0ffeeand brag on irc and in blogs21:39
c0ffeestrange nda21:39
arjNothing but a Dubious Agreement21:41
c0ffeenon-deterministic automaton21:41
tkoarj, nokia policy is to not discuss products that have not been officially announced21:41
arjit better get announced soon then :-)21:42
tkoor we can send our lawyers :)21:44
*** pdz has joined #maemo21:50
tkowatching quake done quick.. I had completely forgotten how crazy (rocket) jumps one can do21:52
Disconnectnew OS on the 80021:56
Disconnect(new release that is)21:56
qgilI'm still intrigued by
qgilmight be noit that far from this #channel  :)21:57
* Disconnect is trying to get an xterm running21:57
qgilbtw I'm using for a week now and I'm pretty impressed - few years ago you would pay a lot of money for this service (and still today)21:59
*** pdz-_ has joined #maemo21:59
Disconnecttableteer link prompts for username/password.21:59
Disconnectcamera autoloads the gchat app rather than, say, a picture-taking app22:02
DisconnectOS ver: Internet Tablet OS 2007 Edition 1.2006.47-2022:02
Disconnect2 sd slots - swap only on the internal one22:03
arjnice, can the browser show google site such as google calendar?22:03
tkohmm, nda's don't say much these days, do they? :-]22:04
*** pdz- has quit IRC22:04
tkonot that I have any clue about the content of any nda's, but I'd suppose we're giving people some :)22:04
* Disconnect isn't under nda - just bought one @ compusa ;)22:04
*** pdz- has joined #maemo22:04
Disconnectsomeone forgot to tell them not to release it before the announcement :)22:05
tkoha ha22:05
arjthats typical of big chains22:06
* koen wonders about the tech specs22:06
Disconnectworking on it22:06
* Disconnect hasn't got scratchbox running anywhere atm22:07
koenosso-xterm doesn't work?22:07
Disconnectbut if someone wants to get me a static-linked xterm bin that'd help22:07
koencat /proc/cpuinfo ; cat /proc/meminfo22:07
*** Pooh22 has joined #maemo22:08
Disconnectapp-installer won't install it, needs libxau022:08
Disconnect(fyi on top of everything i'm still learning dvorak so my typing speed is near 0 today ;) ..)22:09
* Disconnect ponders22:10
Disconnectbora instead of mistral22:10
llecan't the browser see local files?22:10
*** pdz has quit IRC22:13
Disconnect /proc works, cpuinfo is blank22:13
c0ffeedmesg ?22:14
MDKshould not be blank22:15
inzDisconnect, the bora in is built against herring22:15
tkomaybe it's time-activated? shows real info only when officially possible? :)22:16
Disconnecttableteer probably is22:16
qgilimagine someone in Ruoholahti has a red button that reboots all the new devices out there making them download and install the very last stuff22:17
lleor maybe the browser is being anal about content type22:17
tkoqgil, sssh!22:17
MDKaren't we putting the darn specs somewhere in the manual? ;)22:17
*** Guardian has quit IRC22:17
*** pdz-_ has quit IRC22:17
MDKone would think manual is exactly for this22:17
inzDisconnect, try with " bora main" for osso-xterm (and vte)22:18
Disconnectsafety, battery, gpl, warranty22:18
Disconnectinz: updating now :)22:18
tkoMDK, *user*'s manual with detailed specs? eh, right22:18
inzDisconnect, no guarantee it will work, but try =)22:18
Disconnectand the quickstart doesn1t even mention the internal mmc slot22:19
MDKtko: well, there is usually a last page with small-font specs in a table or something22:19
Disconnect"internal error. application x terminal closed"22:20
MDKat least, it used to be there at times when I read manuals22:20
tkoCPU: yes, external memory: optional, ...22:20
tkobut you're probably right22:20
MDKtko: buhaha22:20
tkocan't recall when I'd last read manual that closely22:20
tkoI usually just browse it through to see if there's some fancy features available somehow22:21
MDKDisconnect: I can send you the proper libvte22:21
Disconnectpdf onboard, checking it now22:21
Disconnectdoesn't look good so far22:22
inzDisconnect, d0h22:23
Disconnectonline link forwards to n80 page (as expected)22:24
*** jtokash has joined #maemo22:24
jtokashDid anyone pick up an n800 yet?22:24
MDKDisconnect is playing with it22:25
Disconnectjtokash: i did, we're trying to get an xterm running22:25
jtokashIs it an improvement? should I go pick one up right now?22:25
jtokashfaster?  more ram?22:25
MDKDisconnect: I can send you the libvte that works with maemo-hackers terminal22:25
jtokashdoes it actually have dual mem slots?22:25
jtokashsorry for the questions, but my window for picking one up today is closing fast22:26
Disconnectone in battery comp (mmc/sd) and one outside behind stand (same)22:27
jtokashdoes it seem faster?22:27
jtokashCan it do youtube?22:27
jtokash<shut up, John, let the guy enjoy his new 800!>22:27
Disconnect192M usable int storage22:27
qgilDisconnect went to buy it already, what advice do you think he has for you22:28
arjI'm really eager to hear if the browser has been upgraded. Like if it works with google calendar22:29
jtokashHopefully, software improvements like that will be available for the 77022:30
jtokashI'm wondering, too!22:30
arjexactly :)22:30
jtokashok, the kids are ready for the car trip.  I'm getting directions now.22:31
MDKDisconnect: sent22:31
Disconnectomfg youtube works22:31
* Disconnect was not expecting that22:31
MDKDisconnect: you need to enable redpill mode, install libvte + common, install maemo-hackers terminal (mistral)22:31
jtokashDamn, I'm on my way22:31
wasabi_how much ram doeit have?22:32
*** chiahsin has quit IRC22:35
Disconnectgrr ffox crashed22:36
Disconnectand youtube is way low framerate22:36
Disconnectaudio has some glitches22:36
*** wasabi__ has joined #maemo22:38
DisconnectMDK: libvte4 0.12.1-1mh9bora2 already installed22:38
jtokashIt's running Firefox? GREAT!22:38
Disconnectjtokash: its not running firefox, get a grip22:39
koenprobably osso-fox22:39
jtokashoh, sorry22:39
koenor fire-osso22:39
MDKDisconnect: what do you mean?22:39
DisconnectMDK: that is the version already installed. and w/ no flash image i'm hesitant to brick it..22:40
koenDisconnect: did you say simslot?22:40
MDKDisconnect: oh yeah, true...22:41
Disconnectno sim, 2x sd/mmc22:41
Disconnectfullsize finally22:41
ssvbDisconnect: try to open /dev/dsptask in a browser, does it show any files there?22:42
koenDisconnect: so we can do RAID1 over sd22:42
* koen coughs22:42
DisconnectMDK: jackpot22:44
MDKDisconnect: va bank?22:44
Disconnect"some random v6 processor rev 2 (v61)"22:44
MDKDisconnect: it works?22:45
Disconnectno clock info in cpuinfo22:45
JaffaWhat's the bogos on the 770?22:45
koenarmv6 usually means vfp included22:46
koenand no more alignment problems22:46
koenand SIMD for ssvb :)22:46
Disconnectyah vfp22:46
Jaffa125.76bogo on my 770 atm.22:46
JaffaSo, potentially twice as fast.22:46
Disconnectand a pile of stuff in dsptask22:46
JaffaDisconnect: so, how did you get one?22:47
JaffaAh :)22:47
JaffaDisconnect: how much did it cost, btw?22:47
Disconnecti haxx0red them with my magic veeza card skillz22:47
MDKI guess you might be the first customer22:47
Disconnectsame as reported22:47
JaffaOh, I hadn't seen the price reported - sorry.22:48
Disconnectgonna try to get kb working22:48
Disconnectbt kb works out of the box22:50
Disconnect128M ram still22:50
JaffaDisconnect: there's a "Bluetooth" applet in Control Panel, I believe?22:50
Disconnectand a "hardware keyboard" one22:51
* Disconnect is gonna try R&D mode22:51
MDKDisconnect: 770 has 64mb22:51
arjdoes the included headset have a microphone on it?22:52
Disconnectok so 128 now22:52
Disconnectand yah i think so. checking.22:52
Disconnectlooks like it22:52
Disconnectand a clicker22:52
Disconnectanyone want to try gchat audio/video?22:53
*** Guardian has joined #maemo22:55
Disconnectoooh blue light behind the dpad22:57
*** thoughtfix has joined #maemo22:57
* thoughtfix stalks Disconnect22:57
* thoughtfix waves hello22:57
thoughtfixJohn gave me the news22:58
thoughtfixCan I ask for two small favors?22:58
Disconnectmaybe (ok, certainly :) ..)22:58
thoughtfixcat /proc/cpuinfo and cat /proc/meminfo22:58
koenthoughtfix: armv6 and 128MB22:58
thoughtfixBest over Email ... I have the same username on Gmail22:58
thoughtfixBRB: tossing laundry in the machine for CES22:59
ssvbDisconnect: can you try to download and run this simple console application in xterm?
thoughtfixMan Disconnect is popular today :D22:59
thoughtfixThis is my first time on IRC in months22:59
Disconnectthoughtfix: need more than what koen gave?23:00
ssvbDisconnect: it should run for about 30 seconds and display cpu clock frequency, it may be not very precise though23:00
thoughtfixdisconnect: Only if it's useful :D23:02
thoughtfixActually as awesome as this story is, I have to pack, clean, and call my mother.23:02
Disconnectsending now23:03
thoughtfixDisconnect: What's your first name?23:03
thoughtfix<-- Daniel23:03
*** koen has quit IRC23:03
Disconnecteveryone generally calls me `dis` actually :)23:03
tigerthi thoughtfix23:03
MDKhey tigert23:04
thoughtfixOkay ... making sure I give credit where credit is due23:04
Disconnectgonna try r&d again, it didn't recognize the device23:05
Disconnectssvb: gimme a sec, no wget :)23:06
ssvbDisconnect: :)23:06
thoughtfixOkay. .. I'm doing a side by side table now23:06
qgiltigert, thoughtfix... most of the bloggers starting with T  and aggregated in my inTerneT TableT   ;)23:07
tigerthi quim23:07
Disconnect358.10 .. so 350ish23:08
Disconnectergonomics are way up but armor is down (nothing but felt to protect screen23:09
qgiltigert: exactly in one week I will be spending my first family day (well, night) in Finland23:09
* qgil can't wait23:10
ssvbDisconnect: please try to download and run it again, I increased test time for better precision23:10
Disconnect...and switching dvorak to qwerty and back repeatedly is giving me a headache23:10
tigertqgil: good luck :)23:11
tigertqgil: the nokia ghetto of foreign workers seems pretty warm an fuzzy too, so you should be fine :)23:11
Disconnectits certainly taking longer23:12
Disconnectrunning again23:12
ssvbDisconnect: then it's probably 320 (same as bogomips), on Nokia 770 cpu clock frequency is exactly twice higher than bogomips23:13
qgiltigert: I wonder if I would be allowed to pay some visits to Finnish houses, to see how the indigenous deal with the winter23:13
MDKwell, alko is your friend ;)23:14
alumpthanks to global warming there is no winter anymore23:14
alumpthis is summer weather now ;)23:14
MDKqgil: it was +7 today23:15
tigertqgil: sure23:15
tigertqgil: one word: triple glass on windows23:16
tigertand good insulation23:16
qgilplease keep the temperature just one week more, since we decided not to buy the Finnish winter clothes until arriving to Finland (and we arrive on Saturday night, when the shops are already closed)23:18
*** Guard][an has joined #maemo23:18
tigertthe forecast is warmer again23:21
thoughtfixDisconnect: Thanks!
Disconnect317.9 on2nd run23:21
MDKqgil: in spain, there is no "winter" ?23:22
tigertso the winter seems to delay itself23:22
Disconnectbtw full sd, not mini23:22
thoughtfixBoth are full SD?23:22
qgildefine winter  ;)23:22
MDKqgil: snow, temperatures < 0C23:23
Disconnectcomes w/ 128M mini-sd and adapter23:23
thoughtfixThanks again23:23
thoughtfixOh - probably for use with Nokia phones23:23
thoughtfixafter all23:23
thoughtfixthey want it to be a "phone extension"23:23
thoughtfixFixed the post23:23
Disconnectway ligher than 770 too23:24
Disconnectroughly same thickness23:24
Disconnect(its swoopy vs the bricklike 770)23:24
qgilin the mountains snow yes (you can ski and all that), <0 C in many other parts as well but rarely during the day23:24
arjit would be interesting to see if it works with a bluetooth headset.23:25
thoughtfixDisconnect: People have been begging for a post just like the one I made since the first Nokia "870" pictures surfaced. Thanks for making it possible.23:25
Disconnectnp :)23:25
Disconnectarj: send me one and i'll let you know ;)23:26
qgilbut triple glass windows are only used in radio station to isolate the sound and people is not used to wear real winter clothes, so at the end of the day you might suffer more from cold tempeartures here than in Finland - specially at home23:26
Disconnecti wouldn't be surprised tho23:26
MDKqgil: somehow, you don't feel "cold" that much in finland23:27
MDKqgil: I mean, there were dew winter days in december23:27
MDKthe households usually have *very good* heating/isolation23:27
MDKthat's my experience when comparing to Poland, which is just a bit "warmer"23:28
Disconnectsupposed to be stereo speakers onboard23:28
tigertyeah, indoors it is VERY cozy here23:29
thoughtfixOkay ... REALLY have to get packed and prepared.23:29
tigertits much worse on other countries on cold weather23:29
thoughtfixTake care all - next time you hear from me will be in Vegas!23:29
tigertbecause the houses here are built for cold23:29
Disconnectheh have fun!23:29
thoughtfixDisconnect: thank you again for punching in those commands!23:29
tigertthoughtfix: have fun, it's an crazy place23:29
Disconnectnp :)23:29
* tigert was there once during COMDEX23:29
tigertcrazy place23:30
qgilthoughtfix: "snag"23:30
thoughtfixtigert: CES is crazy, but the presence of my whole family there at the same time makes it doubly so.23:30
qgilaccording to Disconnect, he bought it23:30
thoughtfixwe just met!23:30
tigertthoughtfix: :)23:30
tigertthoughtfix: been there before?23:30
thoughtfixtigert: To Vegas? Once, when I as 18 ... not since23:31
tigertyour kids will love the painted sky ceilings on the casino restaurants23:31
thoughtfixI have no kids that I admit to.23:31
tigertmistook the "whole family"23:31
thoughtfixqgil: Oh ... I put "snag" in there because I'm jealous.23:31
tigertsorry about that :)23:31
*** timdoug has joined #maemo23:31
thoughtfixtigert:  <- that's what I am referrng to.23:31
thoughtfixre: presence of family.23:32
qgilok, I thought you wanted to report this detail23:32
tigertthoughtfix: oh ok23:32
qgilsince you seem to be accurately in your (interesting) blog posts23:32
tigertthoughtfix: sorry about the loss :/23:32
DisconnectSB device found found at bus 004, device address 00523:32
DisconnectFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130123:32
DisconnectNOLO version 1.1.223:32
DisconnectVersion of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_1.2006.47-20_PR_MR023:32
DisconnectThe device is now in R&D mode23:32
*** Guardian has quit IRC23:32
thoughtfixMy parents, uncles and their families, brother, ssster and her family23:33
thoughtfixqgil: fixed.23:33
ssvbDisconnect: One more test please :)
desrtqgil; any idea when they'll start selling the n800 and for how much? :)23:33
thoughtfixNow if more people clicked ads, I could blog full time and quit the sysadmin management crap.23:33
thoughtfixOkay ... REALLY leaving now23:33
thoughtfixtalk to you all soon23:33
thoughtfixtigert: thanks23:34
* thoughtfix waves23:34
qgilDisconnect got one today for 400 USD - (s)he says23:34
*** thoughtfix has quit IRC23:34
ssvbDisconnect: for Nokia 770 the numbers are: 122.40MB/s 275.94MB/s 103.48MB/s 68.99MB/s (I wonder how much better is the new device)23:34
Disconnecthe :)23:34
desrtDisconnect; how much ram is in the thing?23:35
Disconnect405.9 408.54 132.73 133.8623:35
Disconnectdesrt: 128.
Disconnect408.54 408.54 133.29 134.4323:36
desrtDisconnect; thanks for the link23:36
desrt128 is a bit disappointing.  alas.23:36
desrtit's like the absolute minimum that they could have done without forcing people to not buy it :)23:37
Disconnectgrr in r&d mode the bt keyboard doesn't reset the screen-blank timeout23:37
desrti can seriously see myself buying one of these things.23:38
desrtsupport for full-sized SD card is a very nice feature23:38
MDKbtw, what is compusa? Is it a big store/network?23:41
Disconnectnationwide retail chain23:41
tigertits like the Verkkokauppa of USA :)23:41
tigertexcept they have lots of physical stores23:42
MDKtigert: that says it all ;)23:42
tigertwhere verkkokauppa sells over the net23:42
tigertbut I guess you can order online too. but pretty much every shopping mall in the USA has a CompUSA23:42
tigertor BestBUY23:42
tigertthats the other big one23:42
alumpcompusa has only 229 stores (wikipedia)?23:43
tigertits big anywa23:43
*** keesj has joined #maemo23:43
tigertperhaps not the biggest, but big "enough"23:43
alumpwhere bestbut has 110023:43
MDKDisconnect: was there any "stand" or something like that?23:46
MDKDisconnect: or just a plain box?23:46
MDKany promotional banner?23:46
Disconnectnothing - he had to get it from the back23:46
Disconnectknew  what it was and such tho23:46
Disconnect770 still on display too23:47
tigertoh, I thouhgt you meant the flimsy table stand I replaced with this:23:48
tigertthat the 770 had that I never liked23:48
Disconnectits got a built in table stand. not bad actually23:48
tigert^^ this rox0rs :)23:48
Disconnectbt is actually reasonable now. send/recv files, etc23:50
keesjtigert, yep!23:53
pahartikDisconnect: is Bluetooth PAN supported by GUI?23:53
qgiltigert: you should talk to Pepsi or Becks for a sponsored Internet Tablet stand23:54
tigertqgil: :)23:54
tigertokay. must take the dogs out for a poo23:54
tigertlater! :))23:54
Disconnectdunno, no pan here23:55
*** benzea_ has quit IRC23:57
* Pierre is back (gone 03:19:57)23:58
Disconnectanyone got a password for msg me23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!