IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2006-12-23

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Jaffare01:43
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* Jaffa mutters at apps like Maemo Stars being GPL-derived but with no source; especially since he can't get Hildonisation of libglade-using apps working :-(01:43
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JaffaAha, sorted it: http://www.bleb.org/software/770/netsurf-002.png02:59
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pixelmonkeyI can't get flasher-2.0 to recognize my new Nokia 770 from Linux... it just says no suitable USB device found.  Any ideas?03:48
pixelmonkeyI see it in dmesg (Nokia 770 shows up), but it's not listed in /proc/bus/usb/devices03:50
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pixelmonkeyoh I see, I need to power on while pressing home button.  Sorry about that, didn't read03:55
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jtokash2For what it's worth, I ran google reader through a proxy while using minimo and the delays when switching between feeds isn't network traffic.06:29
jtokash2*aren't06:29
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saispohi09:05
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saispoanyone have problem with the internal speaker ?09:36
tigertwhat kind of?09:41
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saispore11:38
saispotigert: no sound out of the speaker11:38
saispoand i don't say if it's hardware or not :x11:38
tigertand its not muted? :)11:42
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saispotigert: no :x11:51
saispomaybe a module not loaded or other no ?11:51
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saispotigert: no idea ?11:59
saispothe headphones work but not the speaker12:00
JaffaMorning, all12:01
JaffaMorning, all12:01
tigerthmm12:32
tigertit could of course be just a broken speaker too12:32
tigertif phones work okay12:32
tigertbut I don't know12:33
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* Jaffa 's porting ArcEm which is native X, what's the best way to full screen it (given that's probably the best use case): make the X window fullscreen (how?); or embed the X Window somehow (GtkSocket?) in a HildonWindow?13:28
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ssvbJaffa, you can have a look at my code vo_nokia770.c module for mplayer: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup13:52
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ssvbcheck X11 helper functions which initialize a window and can switch it fullscreen and back13:53
ssvbdon't know if it is the best method though, also it borrows some code from other mplayer modules, so it is covered by GPL license13:54
ssvbJaffa, also right now I'm tweaking this code in order to have some icon appear in taskbar and be able to switch to other applications and back13:59
ssvbJaffa, everything seems to work except I can't figure out why console mplayer executable entry appears in extras menu though I don't want it :)14:00
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Jaffassvb: heh, cool14:17
tkossvb, there's an executable in application installer package (I think) you can call in your package postinst to let the user pick where to put the entry14:29
* Jaffa managed to get the NetSurf small, lean browser port started last night: http://bleb.org/software/770/netsurf-002.png - Glade fun, I'm so proud ;-)14:44
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koenJaffa: netsurf uses its own engine?14:45
Jaffakoen: yep, written from scratch.14:46
JaffaAlthough it doesn't support JavaScript (and currently no plans to). Imagine it as a more modern version of Dillo14:46
Jaffahttp://www.netsurf-browser.org/14:46
ssvbtko, the problem is that I don't want it appear in the menu at all, I have created a .desktop entry, but did not make a link to it in /etc/others-menu14:50
tkoerr, if you don't want it in the menu why write the .desktop file?14:52
ssvbtko, it is mplayer commandline binary, it can create x11 window for video output so I want its icon to appear in taskbar after it is launched14:53
ssvbso that after user switches to other applications, it can switch back to it14:53
ssvbbut it is useless to have a menu entry for mplayer binary, as it does not do anything without proper commandline switches14:54
tkoI've forgotten how much of this applies to 2006, but there should be a icon for each window, and if you set the _NET_WM_ICON (or whatever) window property the app itself can decice what that icon is, so no need for .desktop files14:56
tkoOTOH .desktop files also could have NoDisplay=true, though I'm not sure we support that14:57
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ssvbtko, thanks for all the hints, right now I 'solved' the problem by setting _WM_CLASS to 'video-player' and borrowing standard video player icon :)15:38
ssvbtko, I did not try setting _NET_WM_ICON yet as it seems to be somewhat more complicated. Is it a requirement to have some icon for a window to have it appear in a taskbar? Or .desktop file is mandatory for this? Unfortunately I don't have much time to experiment with icons as I have some other things in my todo list15:43
ssvb... for 'mplayer Christmas edition' :)15:45
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Jaffatko: should it be possible to just set _NET_WM_ICON and get a task navigator entry, then?15:51
tkonormal freedesktop things should just work, but I'm sure there's variety of bugs16:01
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JaffaYay: http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=ZH4rD0n :)17:02
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saispohi17:11
saispohow can i see if speaker is correctly activate under the system ?17:12
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saispo[    3.216613] headphone (GPIO 14) is now disconnected17:24
saispo[    3.216735] speaker (GPIO 58) is now disconnected17:24
saispoit's normal in the dmesg ?17:24
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kenderhello18:19
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mlpugis apache-php available for ITOS2006 somewhere ready-to-use or does one have to compile it?18:41
kenderapache?18:46
kenderin the nokia 770?18:46
tkothere was some more lightweight http server advertised a long time ago, dunno about php. can't recall the name right now18:47
mgedmincherokee?18:47
tkosounds about right18:48
* mgedmin hasn't actually tried it, but English grammar errors in the documentation didn't leave a good impression18:49
Robot101it does fastcgi, so it can talk to a seperate php instance18:53
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ssvbI recently noticed a news about xavante port to maemo at luaforge.net : http://luaforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=103718:54
suihkulokkimgedmin: it could just be that nobody in cherokee team is native english speaker..18:55
ssvbdid not try it, but looks like it is a lightweight web server with lua scripting support18:55
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* mgedmin is dreaming about video over usb ... things like connecting a projector to the 770 for presentations19:10
desrtRobot101; bzzt.19:26
tkomgedmin, I'd like to see it work with laptops first :)19:26
desrttko; boop19:26
Robot101desrt: bzzt?19:26
desrtRobot101; just a friendly bzzt19:26
Robot101meep19:27
* Robot101 is playing with his E60 and freeswitch19:27
Robot101they're not playing yet19:27
desrti don't know what either of these things are :)19:27
desrtok.  now i know.19:28
Robot101phone that does SIP, voip switch that can do gtalk calls19:33
Robot101so I can unite my worlds, and pointlessly call between my E60 and my 77019:33
Robot101:D19:33
desrtwhat's the deal with nokia and the 770?19:33
Robot101how do you mean deal?19:34
desrti can't even find it on their site19:34
desrtand i have yet to see a single non-opensource-geek carrying one19:34
Robot101yeah? it was linked off the front page recently19:34
Robot101some N70 w/ a 770 deal19:35
* koen likes the 6021 + 770 combo19:35
Robot101and yeah I don't think it's been marketed heavily19:35
desrt6021 has bluetooth?19:36
koenbluetooth + edge19:36
desrtholy crap19:36
desrtit's an update of the 6020?19:36
koendunno19:36
koennokia numbers are voodoo19:36
desrtit is.19:36
Robot101in general, nokia.com/xxx works :)19:36
* Robot101 likes the 6233 and 623419:36
desrtthe 6020 is my absolute favourite nokia phone ever except that it didn't have bluetooth19:36
desrtthe 6021 is exactly the same form factor, but with bluetooth19:36
desrti just might have to get a phone....19:37
Robot101a pretty spiffily updated 6230 w/ 3G and such like19:37
* mgedmin likes the 612519:37
koensmall phone + 770 + laptop19:37
koenideal 3 tier configuration19:37
desrtthe only downer is that gsm data plans absolutely suck in my country19:38
desrtlike.. the best plan is $95/mo with 25MB download and $7/MB for over that19:42
timelessping19:50
timelessanyone here have a gmail account?19:50
kenderme19:56
kendertimeless, what do you want?19:57
timelesscan you use gmail w/ your device?19:57
kendertimeless, I haven't got the device, I'm waiting till the new device features apears, to decide something19:59
kenderto buy the new or the old one19:59
kendersorry19:59
* timeless coughs19:59
timelessignore me while i cry elsewhere19:59
kendertimeless, with minimo...I suppose, yes19:59
timelessyeah, it works, /almost/19:59
kenderwith opera, no19:59
kendertimeless, nice to know that20:00
timelessopera used to work, even last week20:00
timelessi can't log out w/ opera anymore :(20:00
kenderwith ajax interface?20:00
timelessit used to work, yes. but i switched to using html because the features rich gave me, the overhead wasn't worth it20:01
kenderI see20:01
timelessthe main reason to use rich ime is for search results20:02
timelessgmail doesn't remember searches in non rich when you click a message20:02
timelessbut w/ the browser on the device, i just use the <esc> button which takes me back a page (to search results)20:02
kenderoh20:03
timelessfwiw, camino/firefox/seamonkey (trunk) on os x 10.3 can't use rich view either atm20:07
timelessso it's not like i'm just speaking from using opera on the device20:07
kenderI didn't know it20:07
timelesshttps://mail.google.com/mail/h/20:07
timelesseasy enough url to type20:08
timeless(and i have to type it on my mac, since i get infinite slow script dialogs otherwise)20:08
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littlefaeSlightly off topic, but I am a regular to this room, relatively..  Is there a room on this server I can ask some 'dumb' Windows XP q's?  I ask you lot, because I know you, and most of you are techie20:36
mgedminlittlefae: a channel search gives me ##windows20:37
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minragreets...20:38
minraive been spending hours and hours trying to get a film compressed for nokia... but even when i crank the bitrate down to 360, i get cpu overload during camera pans and high motion20:39
minrai need to find a way to limit max bitrate, but the ladvpcodec doesnt have a max bitrate option, id need to use a different codec than the one 770-encode.pl uses20:39
littlefaeBest results I ever got, were, using QuickTime 7, compressing to MPEG-4, with 512kbps max bitrate at 320x240, if that helps?20:40
minrausing mencoder?20:40
littlefaeNo, QuickTime 720:40
littlefaeI'm a mac user by default20:41
minraand what player?20:41
littlefaeThe built in player.20:41
minraah ok,  that is interesting...  a nice high bitrate too20:41
minrathe builtin media player uses the 770 dsp afaict20:41
minrawhich mplayer does not20:42
littlefaeThe only issue I had, was it took a fantastic amount of time from pressing 'play' to it actually displaying, but once it started was fine20:42
minrathanks for the tip, ill try mediaplayer right now.20:42
minraencoding laurence olivier`s hamlet... quite the classic20:42
minratrying mediaplayer20:42
littlefaeIf it makes a difference, I used simple-profile MPEG-420:42
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minraahh videoplayer doesnt do 400x240 resolution apparently20:46
desrtso uhm.  i just installed scratchbox20:47
desrti got this during the installation:20:47
desrtUser desrt added.20:47
desrtRegistering Scratchbox binary formats: done.20:47
desrtMounting Scratchbox directories: /scratchbox/users/desrt/scratchbox/dev/pts: No such file or directory20:47
desrtdone.20:47
desrtand now when i try to login: ERROR: Scratchbox dir '/scratchbox/users/desrt//scratchbox/tools/bin' is missing!20:47
minrawell i need to order another rsmmc card and get the multiboot working20:47
minrahi desrt, i am trying to remember what pts is... like a tty iirc20:48
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minraso it seems to be expecting a pts device for your console... or somthing20:48
desrtminra; it's a pseudoterminal20:49
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desrtminra; since a while ago /dev/pts contains the slave end of pseudoterminal devices20:49
desrtit's a special filesystem where devices magically come and go as they're created20:50
minraah20:50
desrtthe problem is that my /scratchbox/users/desrt/scratchbox directory is entirely empty20:50
minrawell why is bin created under your username?20:50
desrtso it has heither dev/pts or tools/bin20:50
minrajust making conversation until somebody smart shows up...20:51
desrti think scratchbox creates a separate little world for each user20:51
minraaha...20:51
desrtit's all a bit confusing20:51
minrawhat system are you running scratchbox under?20:51
desrtedgy20:51
desrti already had to work around a bug in the install scripts20:52
mgedmindesrt: have you logged out after installing scratchbox?20:52
desrtthey start out #!/bin/sh but then use bash syntax20:52
mgedminyou need to do that so that the group addition takes effect20:52
desrtmgedmin; not really, but that's not the problem20:52
desrtmgedmin; i just did 'sudo su - desrt'20:52
desrtso i'm in the group20:52
mgedminah ok20:52
mgedminhmm20:53
mgedminedgy here, scratchbox works20:53
mgedminbut I installed it while I still had dapper20:53
desrtwhat's in your /scratchbox/users/$USER/scratchbox directory?20:53
desrtor is it a symlink?20:53
mgedminit is a bind mount20:53
mgedmin/scratchbox on /scratchbox/users/mg/scratchbox type none (rw,bind)20:53
desrtnice.20:53
mgedmin/scratchbox/login mounts it20:53
mgedminiirc20:53
desrtweird.20:54
mgedminalso20:54
mgedmin/dev/pts on /scratchbox/users/mg/scratchbox/dev/pts type none (rw,bind)20:54
desrtya...20:54
mgedminmaybe /scratchbox20:55
mgedminum, bad <enter> here20:56
desrti'm looking at the scripts this thing uses20:56
mgedminmaybe you need to runsudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start20:56
desrti did that20:56
mgedminthen I give up20:56
desrtthat's the part that's failing :)20:56
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minraAARGH.. KILL STAB MAIM20:57
minrai keep crashing opera... i suspect some interaction with the bluetooth device driver20:57
minraeither clicking the text entry url box, or clicking on a link20:57
mgedminopera is moody20:58
mgedminsometimes it crashes if I look at it wrong20:58
mgedminminimo, please mature faster!20:58
desrti wonder if i have too many mounts on my system or something :)20:58
kenderscratchbox, stable or legacy, what to download?20:59
minrahow many opera windows do you limit yourself to? ii have swap on mmc enabled, and usually endup with 4-5 browser windows21:00
mgedminI try to limit myself to 121:00
kenderswap on the mmc? that must be so bad for the mmc card, doesn't it?21:00
mgedminperhaps21:00
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minrassvb MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.121:01
ssvbtry 1.0rc1-maemo.5, it has better performance21:01
desrtsomething is very wrong with my computer21:02
minrathanks.  i broke my local database so i cant apt-get anymore21:02
minrabtw if you scp to your N770 use scp -c blowfish, its faster21:03
desrtmgedmin; the answer: my /etc/mtab had fallen out of date21:04
minrassvb do you use the 770-encode script?21:04
desrtmgedmin; so scratchbox thought that /users/desrt/scratchbox was already mounted21:04
ssvbminra, the latest version with hardware YUV colorspace support (this is what improves performance a lot) is still not in garage repository, it should be installed from .deb file: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=5421:04
stealthnot sure if this is a 770 question but im just thinking of possibilities for it .. say i have at my house a server with a modem and land line (pstn) and also the internet via high speed, 770 has wifi and all.. say i would be to connect sip and switch over to pstn? any ideas how i could do this hehe21:04
desrtmgedmin; so it wasn't mounting it anymore21:04
mgedmininteresting21:04
desrtvery evil :)21:04
desrtit ought to use /proc/mounts instead21:05
ssvbminra: I use this script sometimes21:05
minradesrt, more easily solved than something seriously wrong with the 77021:05
minra :)21:05
* desrt has softbricked his 770 a number of times :(21:05
mgedminstealth: you can probably do that with asterisk21:05
desrti wish there was a way to recover a 770 other than to flash the rootfs21:05
stealthgood, i had that in the back of my head21:05
stealthown21:05
mgedminif you find software for the 770 that can connect to an arbitrary sip server21:05
* mgedmin actually knows nearly nothing about asterisk or voip21:06
stealthwhat gui tool kit is used for it?21:06
desrtsigh.  now creating processes has become dog-slow21:07
* desrt reboots21:07
desrtthat was odd.21:10
desrtsomething happened that was making processes start slowly on the rest of my system21:10
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desrtoh well.  gives me an excuse to relogin to add myself to sbox group! :D21:11
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minrawow ssvb....21:15
desrtyay.  life is good.21:16
desrterm.  what do i type inside of my armle scratchbox to bring up the environment attached to :2?21:17
ssvbminra, did you install the latest version of mplayer already, has your movie playback improved?21:20
desrtwoh.  there's a gnu on my panel!21:21
ssvbminra, lots of motion and panning is heavy for video decoding (both for mplayer and builtin player), it may cause problems even on low bitrates21:22
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minrassvb  amazing!  new mplayer runs the black and white video with no pauses21:35
minrai filtered out all chroma, and then also specified grey in the encoding21:35
minraTHANK YOU21:35
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kendersomebody has installed th scratchbox from debian packages?21:40
mgedminI have21:40
kenderand, where is the run_me_first.sh script?21:40
kenderI run, adduser, and it says that I haven't run the run_me_first.sh21:41
kender:S21:41
mgedmindidn't happen to me21:41
kendermm..21:41
kenderI'm ubuntu user, may be that can be the problem?21:41
mgedminI use ubuntu (edgy)21:42
kenderme too21:42
mgedminI installed sbox 0.9.8 debs from scratchbox.org21:42
kenderme too21:42
mgedminran sudo adduser mg sbox21:42
mgedminran sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser mg21:42
mgedminran newgrp sbox21:42
mgedminand in its subshell could use /scratchbox/login21:42
kendermg?21:43
kenderxD21:43
mgedminmy username21:43
kenderI see21:43
kenderI'll try21:43
kenderthanks21:43
kenderadduser: El grupo `sbox' no existe.21:44
kendersbox group doesn't exist21:44
mgedminthat's interesting; the deb package creates it in its postinst script21:44
mgedminor used to21:44
kender:S21:45
kenderDesempaquetando el reemplazo de scratchbox-core ...21:45
kender[: 41: ==: unexpected operator21:45
kender[: 41: ==: unexpected operator21:45
kenderConfigurando scratchbox-core (0.9.8.8) ...21:45
kender[: 30: ==: unexpected operator21:45
kender[: 30: ==: unexpected operator21:45
kenderRegistering Scratchbox binary formats: done.21:45
kenderMounting Scratchbox directories: ls: /scratchbox/users/: No existe el fichero รณ directorio21:45
kenderdone.21:45
kenderthat, could be the problem21:45
mgedminaha!21:45
kendera bad sintax in some places21:45
mgedminyour /bin/sh is a POSIX shell, but the scratchbox postinst script assumes it is bash21:45
kenderoh21:46
kenderyes21:46
kenderhehee21:46
kenderdash21:46
kenderubuntu edgy21:46
kenderhehe21:46
mgedminI installed scratchbox when I still had dapper21:46
kenderoh21:46
kenderI see21:46
kenderIf I change the ln in /bin/sh ?21:46
mgedminyou can switch the /bin/sh symlink to point to /bin/bash, and then apt-get install --reinstall scratchbox-core21:46
kenderyep21:46
kenderhehee21:46
mgedminor just apt-get remove dash21:47
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kenderdo you think that dash is a bad shell?21:47
kendernow , yes , it works21:47
mgedmindash is a good, fast shell21:48
mgedminthe bug is in scratchbox's scripts21:49
kenderok, thanks21:49
kenderI haven't got the nokia by now, but, I want to try the interface and everything, is a good idea what I'm doing?21:50
mgedminscratchbox won't give you an idea of the interface21:53
mgedminall the proprietary apps are missing (which means all of them)21:53
mgedminand the theme is different from the real device21:53
mgedminnot to mention screen dpi mismatch21:53
mgedminand different intput methods21:54
kenderoh21:54
minradoes it make sense to port apps to mistral, or should us newbies install sirrocco?21:54
kenderI see21:54
kenderwell, I'll try it anyway21:55
kenderhehehe21:55
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sbaturzioAloha!21:56
kenderkender@Cosmos:/scratchbox$ ./login22:00
kenderERROR: You don't have permission to run '/scratchbox/sbin/chroot-uid'.22:00
kenderMaybe you have not logged out and in again after being added to sbox group.22:00
kendermgedmin, ?22:00
mgedminkender: maybe you have not logged out and in again after being added to sbox group?22:01
kendermm.22:01
kenderoh22:01
kenderlogged out of the real shell?22:01
mgedminyes22:02
mgedminthat's the way Unix groups work: you get access to a number of groups during login22:02
kenderyes22:02
mgedminnewgrp is an alternative to logging out and logging in22:02
mgedminit gives you access to extra groups for the duration of a subshell session (for processes running within that subshell only)22:03
kenderah22:06
kendernice to know22:06
ssvbtko, maybe you know, is there a simple way to ask X server to redraw everything?22:10
ssvbi can try to create a fullscreen window and destroy it immediately, but that's not very nice :)22:11
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desrtso uh... does anyone know why it takes so long to change the background image? :)22:11
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minrai need to share my theme with you... it is so purty22:12
minrabtw all the apps are crap...22:12
minraand we also need transparent xchat, and xterm22:12
minrato see the pretty girl behind the text22:12
minraand believe you me, i have a background image, that will earn your respect (imade it)o22:13
mgedminminra: screenshots!22:16
mgedmindesrt: I always assumed it was the puny 770's cpu scaling the image that took so long22:16
minraok will do22:16
desrtit's not that puny22:17
minrai forgot the website of the free image hosting22:17
minraah imageshack22:17
minrahttp://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1681/kimwickerfractmednokia2ki2.jpg22:20
desrtis that meant to be a background image?22:21
minrathe nokia 770... we can make it rule...22:21
minraand sony sells a competitor for two thousand dollars22:21
minralol22:21
desrthave you noticed that the sony thing is exceptionally ugly?22:22
tkossvb, eh, why?22:28
tkodesrt, changing backgrounds does a little bit blending.. though as I recall most of the time is spent in png compression...22:30
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* Jaffa supposes he better wrap Mrs Jaffa's presents22:58
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desrtok.. but seriously?23:39
desrtit's a 600x400 png image and a 200mhz processor23:39
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desrtnobody could cause me to believe that that would even take 1 seconds, nevermind the 10 seconds it takes23:40
desrtthe device is capable of full screen video playback23:40
tkofeel free to use a profiler and prove me wrong23:43
desrti can prove you wrong by rebooting23:45
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desrtit takes less time for the desktop to come up than it does to change the image23:45
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mgedminmaybe because it doesn't compress any .png files during boot time?23:46
mgedminonly decompresses one23:46
tkodoing less usually makes things faster23:46
desrtit _compresses_ a png file when you set a png file as your desktop image?23:47
* mgedmin wonders if he understood tko correctly: when you change the background, maemo makes a copy of the image, scales it, and converts it to .png23:47
desrtthat's just silly23:47
JaffaIndeed, it also composits it with the titlebar and dropshadows etc.23:47
Jaffa^mgedmin:23:48
desrtthat's very slightly less silly23:48
mgedminaha!23:48
mgedminthat's why on boot I see the title bar and everything, but the task navigator area is blank white23:48
desrtJaffa; ok.  makes sense.  thanks for the answer :)23:48
* desrt would guess that that's also why changing themes takes a while23:49
JaffaYup23:49
* Jaffa isn't sure it's the best design, but it's got the benefit of speed of rendering as long as you don't change theme or background image regularly.23:50
desrtit is true.23:50
* Jaffa wonders who *did* design it, it'd be interesting to know some of the design decisioning behind it. tko?23:52
tkothe titlebar graphics, task navigator and statusbar alpha blending .. whether it's clearly visible depends on theme23:54
desrthmm23:55
desrtthey've done some neat hacks in the 77023:55

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