IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2006-12-17

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hircushas anyone had trouble in installing Sardine / Herring in Scratchbox?03:22
hircusI could not cleanly remove maemo-repository (/usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure is no longer part of debconf)03:23
hircusI *might* be using the wrong Sirocco image to start the install process, though. Any idea?03:24
hircusum, might be because I selected the wrong debian devkit. trying with just plain 'debian' now03:28
hircusnope, same problem. help?03:31
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Takhooray!  dgen's crashy!06:43
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jaekis it possible to run scripts that run when my bluetooth dialup link goes up/down?07:33
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jaeki want it to ssh home to make a socks proxy connection07:37
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pahartikcan Nokia 770 communicate with more than one Bluetooth device at same time?09:47
pahartikdevices I currently use: Linksys NSLU2 as Bluetooth 2.0 PAN access point, Apple iBook G4 as Bluetooth 1.2 PAN client, Nokia 6310i as Bluetooth 1.1 serial port, Nokia HS-11W as Bluetooth 1.1 headset... I can connect from workstation to access point, telephone or headset, but if I connect to two at same time, it slows down or completely stops Bluetooth until one connection is closed...10:01
* pahartik does not have Nokia 770 yet, but would like to use it for NAT between GPRS uplink and workstation10:06
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mlpugi try to get root access. is my configuration somehow invalid. if I write su it says "this applet requires root privileges"10:14
mlpugif I command sudo -s it asks password. I give "rootme" (isnt this supposed to be the default). it says incorrect password10:14
pahartikmlpug: "sudo" expects password of user that launched it...10:16
pahartikmlpug: and whether anything is allowed, depends on contents of "/etc/sudoers"10:19
mlpugpahartik, really? the title of sudo man page (in ubuntu 6.04) is "execute a command as another user". I should now the password of the "other user" to be able to run commands not the user that launched it, right?10:20
mlpugi dont know whats in /etc/sudoers (permission denied). I can do nothing until I get root access to this device10:21
pahartikmlpug: "sudo" expects password of "yourself user"...10:21
mlpugwhats the default user password then10:22
pahartikmlpug: and there are packages for Maemo that enable things by adding entries to "/etc/sudoers"10:23
mlpugactually I dont want to run commands as sudo. I want ordinary root command prompt. how to get it?10:25
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mlpugi got the root command prompt with sudo gainroot. no passwords were required10:37
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pahartikmlpug: that is good10:39
mlpugyes. i guess there are different kinds of images and exact way to do these things depends on what sw you happen to have in your device10:40
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AD-N770good morning11:32
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MDK /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-ld: unrecognised emulation mode: armelf_linux18:14
MDKSupported emulations: armelf_linux_eabi18:14
AD-N770sorry MDK, I arrived now. What about are you asking ?18:16
MDKAD-N770: /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-ld: unrecognised emulation mode: armelf_linux18:17
MDKSupported emulations: armelf_linux_eabi18:17
MDKcoming from ld18:17
MDKwhile trying to built gcc 4.0.318:18
tkoI think you're supposed to compile compilers outside sbox18:19
MDKtko: cross-compile?18:19
AD-N770MDK I think so too18:21
MDKstill it's a bit strange18:21
AD-N770MDK have u read this link
MDKjust reading...18:24
AD-N770it's intended for sbox 1.x but I think is usefull too18:25
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MDKtko: I'm trying to build a D compiler, it uses gcc as a frontend18:29
MDKtko: did you check D? Onne brought it to my attention recently, it's pretty awsome18:30
MDKvery interesting for our needs18:30
tkoMDK, pvanhoof mentioned it a long time ago, but I haven't really tried using it though18:30
tkobeing a new thing it has slight bootstrapping problems :)18:31
MDKtko: it's pretty old actually, few years18:34
MDKthey're planning stable 1.0 release in january18:34
MDKthere are gtk bindings it seems18:34
MDKthe guy who wrote it is the guy who wrote first c++ compiler18:35
MDKit's a darn modern language18:35
MDKbeats the crap out of C#18:35
MDK(in terms of semantics)18:36
MDKslower than C, but faster than C++18:36
MDKand supports all C data types natively...18:36
MDKdarn, I'm in love18:36
MDKerr, ;)18:36
ssvbMDK, I tried D a year or two ago, they were talking about getting stable soon at that time as well :)18:41
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nomisis that the same D that was kind of popular on the Amiga?18:42
MDKssvb: heh, I imagine ;)18:43
MDKssvb: did you like it?18:43
pvanhoofMDK, if you start a project in D :), I'll join18:43
pvanhoofso tell me when you start18:43
pvanhoofany project :)18:43
pvanhoofthe problem is that we are both in love :)18:44
tkoD compiler v2? =)18:44
nomisor am I confusing something there?18:44
tkois the compiler written with d even?18:44
MDKpvanhoof: heh ;) Yeah, it's cool18:44
MDKsome stuff is just gorgeous about it18:45
pvanhoofs/cpp//g :)18:45
ssvbMDK: yes, I liked the idea, but after tracking its development for some time, I did not like the fact that each new version was somewhat noncompatible with the previous one18:45
MDKI like the 'scope (exit) do_something; ' thing18:45
pvanhoofwell I like the simple things like interfaces (availability), properties and the fact that indeed all C types are native18:46
pvanhoofwhich means, indeed, binding to C is like writing normal programs18:46
pvanhoofand it simply cuts all the crap of C++18:47
pvanhoofbeing cpp, multiple inheritance, over-syntaxiation18:47
pvanhoofmy simply cutting with some of the mis-designs of C18:47
MDKand the C legacy in c++18:47
MDK(.h files, etc.)18:47
pvanhoofin stead of trying to support it, what C++ does18:47
ssvbMDK, so after the compiler refused to accept my old D code, I decided to wait for a stable version 1.0 :)18:48
pvanhoofexcuse me, what C++ incorrectly does18:48
MDKssvb: yeah, I can understand the pain18:48
pvanhoofjust the very idea of implementing templates (generics) in cpp18:48
pvanhoofthat just amazes me (the amount of stupidity is amazing)18:49
pvanhoofand in modern times, are .h files to declare API as public ... and cpp in general18:49
pvanhoofwell .. it, ... I don't have words for it18:50
MDKanyways, I think gnome will need to get out of the gobject shithole sooner or later18:50
MDKD is one solution18:50
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pvanhoofoh it will problably stay there for some time18:50
pvanhoofthe solution, i think, is native support for it in a language like D18:50
MDKpvanhoof: yeah, that's true18:51
pvanhoofso acknowledging that this exception exists18:51
pvanhoofin the compiler18:51
MDKpvanhoof: but D is a solution in a way, that it allows a "transitional" approach due to C compatibility18:51
pvanhoofand then letting the rewrites happen over time18:51
pvanhoofwell, I want the language to make it possible to inherit GObject classes, to implement GTypeInterface gtypes18:51
pvanhoofthings like that18:51
pvanhoofit's not that tomorrow the existing ones will be gone18:52
pvanhoofand actually, those are simple for a compiler to support18:52
pvanhoofjust letting the language touch the internals of how classes and interfaces are handled18:52
pvanhoofand writing a glue18:53
pvanhoofor making this pluggable in the language18:53
pvanhoofso having a compiler plugin, that recognizes gobject classes as D classes18:53
pvanhoofI'm making it sound simple .. I'm aware that it isn't that simple18:53
pvanhoofbut that is what I would propose18:54
MDKgc is the hard part I guess18:54
pvanhoofit has always been the hard part, when mixing languages18:54
pvanhoofconverting types, which isn't hard because of D's native support for C types18:55
pvanhoofs/support/way of working18:55
pvanhoofand garbage collection18:55
pvanhoofp/invoke is the easy part18:55
MDKcrap, now when cross-compiling I'm getting 'as: unrecognized option `-mfloat-abi=soft'18:55
pvanhoofin C# its is far more easy to language bind a C library that Java, because converting types is far more easy18:55
pvanhoofthat's because in C# you have structs18:55
pvanhoofD beats the crap out of C# in converting types .. because there's no such thing as a need to convert hings18:56
tko sounds pretty cool also18:56
pvanhoofso in terms of interopability with existing libraries, is D a winner over all existing higher languages18:56
pvanhoofhowever, MDK .. garbage collecting in D is also very interesting18:57
pvanhoofyou can mark classes as being ones that shouldn't be garbage collected18:57
pvanhoofor, of which the instances shouldn't be ...18:58
pvanhoofthat is an interesting concept for GObject language binding18:58
pvanhoofand you can implement smartpointers or autopointers in D afaik18:58
pvanhoofagain interesting18:58
pvanhoofthe two combined ..18:58
wasabi_Believe you can do that in C# too.18:58
pvanhoofand you have a solution for 90% of the cases for GObjects18:58
MDKC# is interesting, I but I recently started having doubts about it's wide-spread adoption18:59
pvanhoofwasabi_, well it depends on how complete the generics/template's possibilities are18:59
MDKit's getting too controversial19:00
pvanhoofpeople whine to much about politics19:00
wasabi_Wide spread adoption where?19:00
wasabi_In the little tiny open source world?19:00
pvanhoofthis is a problem for your Diva project too. And more than likely the reason why dudes start pitivi's19:00
wasabi_Got me.19:00
wasabi_Some huge majority of real businesses already do use C#.19:00
MDKwasabi_: I'm not much interested about 'real businesses'19:01
wasabi_It's sort of my primary profession. ;)19:01
pvanhoofMDK, people should be into getting-things-done19:01
pvanhoofrather than whining19:01
MDKI'm interested about the open-source communities19:01
pvanhoofespecially the open source communites19:01
tkodoes d have native boolean type? the first example I saw (ab)uses int as boolean...19:02
wasabi_Well, we could argue about that for days. I think the recent rise of open source has been directly attributable to money arriving, from businesses.19:02
* wasabi_ points to Nokia/Novell/RedHat/IBM and a few hundred others.19:02
MDKtko: sure, 'bool'19:02
MDKwasabi_: that's true19:03
MDKwasabi_: scaringly true19:03
pvanhoofoh I'm not so scared about it.19:03
wasabi_Why? What did you expect? Heh.19:03
wasabi_I'm a capitalist at heart, anyways. SO it's not really a suprise.19:03
wasabi_When people eat, they work.19:03
MDKwasabi_: but those companies need to stay close to open-source19:03
wasabi_The goal is to not have the moral positions be run over by the steamroller that is a corporation.19:03
wasabi_And I think we are doing a remarkably good job.19:04
MDKwasabi_: since they try to benefit from that in the first place19:04
MDKso they need to adopt to the community rules and standards19:04
wasabi_Sure. That's a path to a winning business plan.19:04
wasabi_So, since it's winning, the ones that don't do it, lose. ;)19:04
wasabi_Like, Nokia. They don't want to maintain a Gtk fork.19:04
wasabi_Because it is a time sink.19:04
pvanhoofMDK, which is why people should stop pissing on people like Richard .. that pissing is causing companies to disobey those community rules19:05
pvanhoofas in: oh, it's just a bunch of religious idiots writing blog items19:05
MDKyeah, so in the end, you need to stay with the community/tools they use19:05
pvanhoofand: the community in itself doesn't care about the ideals anymore19:05
wasabi_I guess if you're a socialist at heart, then you're probably not to happy about the status quo.19:05
MDKwasabi_: like novell. They might want to give C# to the customers. But customers don't contribute back19:05
wasabi_But I don't give that idea much long term merit anyways.;)19:05
MDKwasabi_: I said "scaringly" because I'm a bit worried what might happen when the money stops flowing19:06
wasabi_I guess I don't follow.19:06
pvanhoofoh, then opensource goes back to its roots .. as in 199819:06
wasabi_I build software in C# all day long.19:06
wasabi_And I do my best to contribute to Mono and Gtk and those things, as the need merits.19:06
wasabi_If I get fired? I stop contributing.19:07
wasabi_Doesn't take away all I've already contributed. ;)19:07
MDKwasabi_: my only point is that (as someone who wrote a shitload of C# too) I'm aware that some people have aversion towards C#19:08
MDKbeing a novell/ms technology19:08
MDKI don't want to dispute does it even make sense19:08
wasabi_In the open source community, yes, totally.19:08
MDKsince that's not really important... the thing is, that C# has, unlike most other languages, a lot of hatred enemies19:08
wasabi_But like everything, if they can come up with an appropiate alternative, then they'll have an argument.19:09
wasabi_Java isn't quite as compelling.19:09
wasabi_at least imo19:09
wasabi_Because the people who like C#, at least in the business world, are trying to eat.19:10
Pierrejust like php has dozen haters (in all worlds), but who cares about haters? mono and php are good languages and the c# specs are open no?19:10
wasabi_Open enough.19:10
MDKand speaking about money -- I guess it's not a secret that nokia is sponsoring a lot of projects in the gnome world19:10
MDKthat's good19:10
MDKfor everybody19:10
Pierrepvanhoof: the community in general does care about the ideals. But many members have grown (aka not student anymore). Bread and watter are not enough anymore ;)19:11
Pierre& re :)19:11
wasabi_I think it's important to remember that nokia isn't sponsering those projects out of the goodness of it's heart19:11
MDKbut it'll prolly stop one day, as nokia needs to make some money back19:11
wasabi_They see a money making opportunity.19:11
wasabi_And I think they have a reasonable chance of success.19:11
MDKif we, as a community, can survive that -- than it's good19:11
wasabi_What, how many people did it take Nokia to put together the n770 software stack?19:11
wasabi_How many people did it take MS to do the same with their PDAish offerings?19:12
wasabi_They can compete great simply on lower cost I suspect.19:12
wasabi_I hope they pop out a complete competitor soon, though.19:13
wasabi_Or they'll miss their chance.19:13
MDKwasabi_: who? MS?19:13
wasabi_A proper competitor in the PDA space.19:14
wasabi_The n770 somehow purposefully is ignoring it.19:14
suihkulokki"PDA space"19:14
wasabi_suihkulokki: Ya know, email synching, contact synching, with corporate mail servers, etc.19:14
suihkulokkiyou mean the one that never really sold, and is dropping in sales ever since palm?19:14
wasabi_You mean like the blackberry?19:15
wasabi_Or the Windows Smartphone?19:15
suihkulokkithat's a phone, not a pda19:15
wasabi_Devices I've bought 40 of in the last year.19:15
wasabi_for our sales force.19:15
suihkulokkiand for those nokia has symbian and eseries19:15
wasabi_The n770's form factor would be much better. ;)19:15
MDKsymbian is a pile of crap19:16
suihkulokkiI don't disagree19:16
wasabi_I buy smart phones for our sales force, wiht the knowledge that nobody will EVER receive or send a call from it.19:16
wasabi_They use it for email only.19:16
wasabi_And access to internal web apps.19:16
wasabi_They buy a real phone for voice.19:16
glassthat kind of blows19:16
wasabi_nobody wants to hold a brick to their ear.19:16
MDKI just hope that iPhone will come out and beat the crap out of nokia N-series19:17
glasssidetalking wasn't that bad19:17
glassbesides, the speaker was strong enough so you could use it normally too..19:17
MDKso that nokia will start investing more in osso19:17
suihkulokkioooooh iPhone19:17
wasabi_That's what sort of annoys me a little bit about the n770. If they were to just complete teh calendar/contacts synchring and support.19:17
glasshah iphone..19:17
MDKand I'm saying this as a nokia employee ;)19:17
suihkulokkiit must be great because it's apple19:17
wasabi_And leave off the phone component.19:17
wasabi_Business people all around would swarm to it.19:17
suihkulokkistupid lemmings19:17
glassit wouldn't hurt 770 to have a built in 3g modem..19:18
MDKsuihkulokki: apple knows something about usability19:18
tkoI hate closed source "bug tracking" .. I'd like gmail to directly throw out definite spam (with customizable level of definite) but I've no idea if anyone even read my suggestion19:18
wasabi_glass: Probably not hurt as much as not really help.19:18
glassflatrate 3g is convinient vs. hunting for wifi etc..19:18
wasabi_DUN through BT to your real phone.19:18
wasabi_Which has the 3g component.19:18
MDKsuihkulokki: the usability of symbian is just plain crap19:18
tkoevery now and then there's a couple false positives in the spam folder, but finding those among 3000 others is kind of pain19:19
wasabi_glass: You then sell the N770 + another nokia phone as a pair.19:19
wasabi_Some bundled deal, etc.19:19
wasabi_My sales people would love that.19:19
MDKsuihkulokki: and I like what apple does, because it makes the silly "let's just throw some new random features in and sell millions" paradigm looks stupid19:20
wasabi_Wait isn't that what apple does? :)19:20
wasabi_ <--- I've bought 40 of those in the past year.19:20
wasabi_I'd much rather have bought 40 N770s19:20
glasswasabi: the modem being in the phone has the added bonus of only needing 1 sim(and one flatfee 3g sub.. vs. having one for the phonephone and one for the device..)19:20
suihkulokkiMDK: sounds like you have drank your kool-aid19:21
wasabi_glass: Not a big deal, that's what we do for windows mobile now.19:21
wasabi_Cost isn't the problem. Features are.19:21
wasabi_Ease of management on IT.19:21
wasabi_Being able to ssh into your sales person's device and fix it would be AWESOME.19:21
wasabi_hence why i'd like linux there.19:21
MDKsuihkulokki: I don't care about apple. I don't even own a single apple product19:23
wasabi_i own one, never again. :)19:23
MDKsuihkulokki: but I like they're business model19:23
suihkulokkiwasabi_: can't you use webcalendar/contacts?19:23
wasabi_offline support is required.19:23
suihkulokkiif you are allways connected, there should be no need to have the data on device.19:23
suihkulokkilocal http server ;)19:23
glassmdk: what business model? having one hit product every 5 years?19:24
wasabi_I like how outlook mobile works.19:24
wasabi_It syncs mail/cal/contacts locally, and on reconnect it pushes them in the background.19:24
wasabi_also MS CRM.19:24
suihkulokkisounds like you have locked yourself in19:24
wasabi_A very small percentage of actual business give a damn about lock in. ;)19:25
wasabi_Those products work. They're not uber expensive, and they get the job done.19:25
suihkulokkieven if 770 had calendar syncing, it would unlikely support propiertary protocols by ms19:25
wasabi_Sure it would. Evo does.19:25
suihkulokkinot very well19:26
wasabi_Well, with the crashing bugs worked out, it'd be fine. ;)19:26
suihkulokki..atleast the last time i used it.. oh ok :)19:26
wasabi_The functionality is there. It's just massively unstable.19:26
tkoI've had a brief look at the connector and it's just scary :)19:28
wasabi_Yeah it's terribel.19:28
wasabi_But, if it can just be made stable, it'd be good enough.19:28
tkoI think people have been complaining evo itself getting more unstable recently19:28
wasabi_yeah. =(19:28
wasabi_Contacts/Dates/TinyMail really excite me on that front.19:28
tkomake check anyone? =)19:29
wasabi_Not just for portable usage.19:29
wasabi_I'd love a 3 seperate program approach to email/cal/contacts.19:29
wasabi_As long as clicking on an invitation in the email program still properly adds it to the cal. ;)19:29
tkoconsidering the complete lack of tests, it's sometimes amazing things work at all :)19:29
MDKtko: ximian monkeys didn't need tests19:31
tkothe mail/calendar integration could be much better, even in evo.. simple thing like seeing the calendar to see how an invitation fits in the day is oddly complicated19:31
tkoor just handling the To/Cc fields. ugh19:32
wasabi_evo pops up dumb error messages too often too19:33
wasabi_LIke, I have to use a VPN to get to my work email, so if I turn the VPN off, it effectily crashes.19:33
wasabi_A never endless loop of "unable to contact server"19:34
wasabi_"oh, can't connect? Offline mode on!"19:34
* suihkulokki takes a sip of google kool-aid and wishes for gmail/gcalendar appliance with syncml for companies19:34
koenoffline mode? let's sync first!19:35
wasabi_So what is syncml anyways?19:35
koenwasabi_: the openmoko dudes are going to hook funambol to eds-dbus19:35
tkooffline is a good idea, too bad it works only selectively19:35
suihkulokkiwasabi_: a open protocol for syncing devices19:36
wasabi_Also, it should be automatic.19:36
wasabi_I don't want an offline mode button.19:36
wasabi_It should just shut up when it can't reach the server.19:36
wasabi_And realize when I plug back in that it can. Grey out the folder or something automatically.19:36
* Jaffa wants to be able to select offline manually when the connection's laggy and then automatically sync (if possible) every 10 minutes or something.19:36
wasabi_suihkulokki: A markup language or protocol?19:36
wasabi_Evo's IMAP also usea one worker thread.19:37
wasabi_Which is very very poor.19:37
JaffaLatest versions of Outlook seem to have buggered that up: if you're in offline mode with replication, mail in your outbox will generate a delivery failure if the sync fails.19:37
koensyncml is created by a marketing dude that said "binary is cool, and xml is cool! Let's combine!!!"19:37
* koen stabs wbxml19:37
suihkulokkiwbxml is quite funny yes19:37
tkokoen, sounds like rhythmdb :)19:37
* koen is so not going to google rhytmdb19:38
tkobest of the both worlds; compactness of text and readability of binary19:38
tkoon-disk format for rhythmbox, also used for epiphany history (or was it bookmars) .. or both19:38
suihkulokkiwbxml is effectively a custom compression scheme for xml data19:39
wasabi_does it offer anything over gzip? :019:40
koenwasabi_: marketing powers19:40
wasabi_i mean, maybe seeking or something19:40
wasabi_there's a bit you could do with it19:40
suihkulokkiWireless binary XML19:40
wasabi_some sort of "this tag is known to start and end here"19:40
wasabi_so only decompress those areas.19:41
tkoIIRC SAX stream could be easily compressed a whole lot better than the text representation, wbxml might be doing that19:41
koensuihkulokki: it was designed by intel?19:41
wasabi_wbxml might be directly readable without decompression19:41
wasabi_which would be a benefit.19:41
wasabi_assing each eleemnt in your schema a set of integers, the compressed stream becomes a stream of those integers, attribute values get the same treatment.19:42
tkoah indeed, with schema you don't even need to transfer the dictionary19:44
suihkulokkiI think wbxml does not even offer compression rate of gzip. but wbxml is faster to parse and needs less lines of code to implement.19:44
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wasabi_i'd assume if they cared enough to write such a format, they had a reason.19:48
wasabi_Which might be a bad assumption. ;)19:48
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tkoI'm sure it makes nice marketing material. "our products are XYZ compliant" etc :)19:52
tko"leveraging industry standards" is another phrase that comes to mind19:52
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MDKidea no. 43432 on how to conquer the world:20:08
MDK1) register domain20:09
MDK2) sell it to jenkki20:09
MDK3) earn millions20:09
minrawhat is the law wrt namesquatting ?20:09
MDKjudging be the amount of "parked" domains there is no law20:11
suihkulokkitrademark owned can sue you20:13
MDKsalmiaki is not a trademark, is it?20:13
suihkulokkino, and it's salmiakki =)20:14
MDKso much for idea 4343220:14
tko"the square root of terrorist intent" -- would that be imaginary or something?20:16
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TakI dunno, what's the sqrt of an imaginary number?20:21
Takminra: dgen is a no-go so far20:21
minradid you look at it?  i just committed myself to 1400 dollars costs to get internet at home20:22
minrathank you, socialist germany20:22
minraso ill get scratchbox running whenever i get access20:25
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MDKminra: 1400$ ?20:27
MDKsounds rather like a wolf-capitalism20:28
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minrano, last mile terrrorism.  the shortest contract you get for a dsl connection is 2 years, and the best deal for 6000/586 + telephone is 45 eu/month20:34
minrayaay barmaid gave me a free beer20:34
* minra frolics20:34
MDKhow fast is that20:35
minra6000kb/s down, 586 up20:35
MDKexactly same price here20:36
MDKfor a cable connection though20:36
minrayeah, i just hate being stuck with them for two years20:37
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oskudehi, how long does the 770 need to boot ? or can it "hibernate" ?20:44
minrai have put the cover on my 770 when going to bed and woken up with good battery power20:48
minrai am guessing about 45 seconds20:49
tigertoskude: it has pretty aggressive powermanagement, so it does "sleep"20:49
tigertthe boot is like ~20-30 secs I guess20:49
tigertnot very long20:49
tigertbut it does sleep quite nicely without sucking much battery with the cover on20:49
oskudeok, thanks, and with the features i can live with 20~30 secs... (as my palmVx is getting old ;)20:50
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oskudehmm, i cant find any videos about the handwriting regocnition... is it that bad (joke;) ? can it learn your hadwriting or is it like on (old)palm that you have to learn how to write ?20:56
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tigertwell. I dont personally use it21:05
tigertI guess it works21:05
tigertyou can teach some stuff I think21:05
tigertI use the thumb keyboard myself, it's fitting my use very well21:05
tigertjust press a text entry with your flat thumb21:06
oskudehmm, that sounds faster that handwriting...21:06
oskude *than21:06
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oskudebut there are ofcourse externals keyboards... i just started to wonder cause none of the videos ive seen in youtube use handwrite regocnition...21:07
MDKthumbwriting rocks21:08
minrait does?  better than pen and virtual kbd?21:09
MDKhandwriting recognition, I must admit, is pretty bad21:09
MDKcompared to palm ie.21:09
wasabi_So anybody aware of any VPN interface for the 770?21:09
MDKminra: yes, you can actually irc with that21:09
wasabi_Specifically need PPTP.21:09
minrai have the thinkoutside stowaway kbd and now after a few weeks I am really fast on it... not programming tho21:09
oskudei would think pen and virtual kdb is the slowest (atleast for me on palm)21:09
minrawow mdk....21:09
minrawasabi_, porting freeswan or pptp stuff shouldnt be too hard... but it might be slow21:10
oskudewhere can i find more about this "thumb writing" ?21:10
minrai think it is in the manual... and see system preferences for input21:11
MDKwasabi_: I'm using the scriptkiller's VPN/cisco and works like a charm21:11
MDKoskude: you push screen with a finger21:11
* oskude doesnt have 770 (yet) :) still looking...21:12
MDKoskude: and the screen switches to a large keyboard to be used with two thumbs21:12
oskudeany screens or videos ?21:12
oskudeof how it works/looks like21:12
minralike a big big keyboard21:12
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MDKoskude: if you go to
MDKand than "spotlight"21:13
oskudeMDK: roger21:13
MDKthere is thumb keyboard in one of the images21:13
minranothing could compare to the bluetooth keyboard solution.  it is amaying21:13
MDKoskude: the "three input methods" section21:14
MDKoskude: though, it's a typicall marketing-crap picture21:14
oskudeMDK: yup, saw it. seems you can write with it pretty fast21:14
MDKoskude: in a sense, it doesn't have much to do with reality21:14
MDKoskude: normally you'd hold it with two hands and use just your thumbs to type21:15
MDKoskude: I mean, the picture doesn't really show the real use case21:15
MDKoskude: I'm not using it right now, but I irc sometimes with it21:16
oskudeMDK: yup, but sounds better than pen+virtual kbd21:16
MDKme & tigert, we did a small test21:16
MDKwe started to type some "lorem ipsum" crap21:16
MDKhim - on 770 with thumb keyboard21:16
MDKme - on mylo with hw keyboard21:16
MDK(very small and crappy btw)21:16
MDKand he was faster21:17
minrawhat is mylo?21:17
oskudesounds nice21:17
MDKminra: sony mylo21:17
tigertI irc with the thumb keyboard, its nice21:18
tigertit takes a bit to get used to,21:18
tigertand it helps to turn up touchscreen tap sounds21:18
tigertand to use a theme with good contrast for the pressed in buttons21:18
tigertso you get good feedback21:18
tigertbut its pretty nice21:18
tkoMDK, is the new error enum called HildonDateTimeEditorError -- the 'Editor' part would be inconsistent with the value naming (looking at the audit tool)21:19
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MDKtko: hmm hmm hmm21:19
MDKit's like [Date|Time]Editor21:20
oskudei allready wanted to buy 770, but i didnt get the money together and bought a "mistake"... (well, 350e is not that much, but it was for me)21:20
tkothe comments are not that good in many places :-/21:20
MDKbut what do you suggest? Just HildonDateTimeError?21:20
tkoMDK, yep21:20
minrawhat mistake?21:21
oskudeits called gp2x :/21:21
MDKtko: did we anounce the audit tool actually?21:21
tkoMDK, nope, but luc said it's "real soon now" *cough* :)21:22
MDKmurray is sending patches against stuff that's already fixed21:23
tkoMDK, oh, I think it's a bit confusing to say 'infoprints are deprecated' when meaning just one specific function21:24
MDKtko: there are lots of gtk_inforprint functions21:24
MDKthe "gtk_infoprint" match will catch them all21:25
tkoMDK, the message refers to just 'infoprint' which is more like a concept21:25
MDKso, in a sense, this is about gtk_infoprint_whatever21:25
MDKtko: besides, I lost control over the stuff displayed there21:25
MDKI mean, some stuff has been changed by luc21:26
tkoMDK, I know but that's not what is being said :-/21:26
MDKanyways, infprints are kinda deprecated21:27
MDKthough, I'm pretty sure I put something about using hildon_banner instead21:27
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tkoyes, HildonBanner was mentioned21:28
MDKtko: what about our custom gtk widgets with other-than-default values? HildonButton?21:30
tko"No decision yet" :)21:33
oskudeheh :)
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minraare any of you doing telephony with the 770?  i just got a voip account with a german provider, might be possible to run asterisk with this22:18
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keesjminra, nice question22:41
minrai have to quit drinking to do anything productive... but that is on my list22:47
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user_any xchat for scirroco22:50
user_irssi hard to use on 77022:51
minrai am on mistral using xchat22:53
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user_ok out of 2 verions of xchat  they arw all laid out wrong23:00
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tigertminra: I use googletalk voip somewhat23:37
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tko"For Bruce Schneier, SHA-1 is merely a compression algorithm."23:42
minrai am one of those people who may not talk about encryption.23:48
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