| whirm | tko: managed to reach this far: | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| whirm | http://pastebin.ca/279237 | 00:01 |
| whirm | why the hell is this happening? | 00:02 |
| tko | the content of those packages are pretty meaningless anyway (assuming you have some version already installed) | 00:02 |
| tko | sardine is not exactly widely used, but we're shifting to use it for daily development | 00:03 |
| whirm | i cannot understand that: | 00:03 |
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| whirm | tar depends: libc6 | 00:03 |
| whirm | and conflicts cpio | 00:04 |
| tko | I'll try to get sardine on the device tomorrow | 00:04 |
| whirm | I have not cpio installed | 00:04 |
| tko | busybox confuses things.. | 00:04 |
| whirm | but if I try to install tar it clashes with busybox | 00:05 |
| * whirm looking at what does busybox provides | 00:05 | |
| whirm | wow, busybox conflicts with half the distro! XDD | 00:05 |
| whirm | well, so now my 770 should reboot and sowme the gui right? | 00:06 |
| tko | in theory, yes.. you might want to try an application on the command line first, just in case | 00:07 |
| whirm | what one? | 00:08 |
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| tko | any. the browser for example | 00:11 |
| whirm | maemo-launcher: died loading invoked application: 'browser.launch: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory' | 00:12 |
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| whirm | tko: | 00:13 |
| whirm | Nokia770-39:/usr/lib# /usr/bin/browser.launch | 00:13 |
| whirm | Segmentation fault | 00:13 |
| whirm | argh | 00:13 |
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| tko | oh, that's just maemo-launcher :) | 00:14 |
| tko | try maemo-summoner /usr/bin/browser.launch | 00:15 |
| whirm | tko: http://pastebin.ca/279255 | 00:15 |
| whirm | tko: and many thanks for the help :-) | 00:16 |
| inz | tko, you mean invoker? | 00:16 |
| tko | inz, nope, summoner. it bypasses the daemon | 00:16 |
| inz | ahhh | 00:16 |
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| inz | I can swear it wasn't there last time I looked =) | 00:17 |
| whirm | tko: maybe I must restart X first? | 00:17 |
| tko | it's fairly new | 00:17 |
| inz | Which is quite a while aho =) | 00:17 |
| inz | -h+g | 00:17 |
| whirm | what's the name of the process? | 00:17 |
| tko | whirm, that's a strange error, "shouldn't happen" :-] | 00:17 |
| whirm | /usr/bin/Xomap maybe? | 00:17 |
| tko | try another app :) | 00:17 |
| tko | oh, hmm.. at this point the UI isn't running, so it probably just won't work | 00:18 |
| whirm | I killed Xomap and started it as: | 00:19 |
| whirm | and after I started /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server | 00:19 |
| whirm | and then | 00:19 |
| whirm | maemo-invoker /usr/bin/browser.launch | 00:19 |
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| whirm | and I get: | 00:19 |
| whirm | http://pastebin.ca/279261 | 00:20 |
| whirm | and a orange square at the top left part of the screen :-) | 00:20 |
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| tko | you'll need at least dbus and gconf running, and with some environment variables (which run-standalone.sh sets up) | 00:21 |
| whirm | ok | 00:21 |
| whirm | how do I start gconf? | 00:23 |
| whirm | I started dbus with /etc/init.d script | 00:23 |
| inz | Afaik gconfd is started when needed | 00:23 |
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| whirm | I think Ill risk and restart the device, what do you people think? | 00:25 |
| whirm | :-) | 00:25 |
| whirm | calculator runs great! | 00:26 |
| * whirm restaring | 00:26 | |
| * whirm crosses fingers | 00:27 | |
| whirm | oops, the progress bar was at 100% and I just got a white screen :-( | 00:27 |
| whirm | any advice? | 00:28 |
| whirm | :-) | 00:28 |
| whirm | the poweroff dialog shows up when I press the power button | 00:28 |
| whirm | is possible to enable usb-ethenet with this gadget? | 00:29 |
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| |tbb| | hi all | 02:08 |
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| * konttori is back | 09:47 | |
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| tigert | hi | 10:10 |
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| konttori | Hi | 10:17 |
| konttori | Wow. Didn't get much sleep last night and had tennis @ 8 am. | 10:17 |
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| tigert | konttori: sounds fun :) | 10:26 |
| tigert | did you hit the ball? | 10:26 |
| konttori | actaully went surprisingly well | 10:26 |
| tigert | :) | 10:27 |
| konttori | I have a karonka tonight and I'm a bit worried that I'll fall asleep during the speeches | 10:27 |
| tigert | michael is not in yet, I'll ask him about lunch time once he gets here | 10:27 |
| tigert | oh, actually he is | 10:27 |
| tigert | konttori: hehe | 10:27 |
| tigert | your own or a friend's? :) | 10:28 |
| konttori | Friends ;) | 10:28 |
| tigert | I had one of a friend last saturday | 10:28 |
| tigert | very nice, took photos for her | 10:28 |
| konttori | Ahh.. cool. What subject did she study? | 10:28 |
| tigert | it was about using simulated models in research and how the "tools" usefulness is depending a lot on the knowledge and skills of the user of the tool who runs simulations | 10:29 |
| tigert | it was a bit between different areas, but mostly of the philosophical issues | 10:29 |
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| tigert | actually this one: http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/hum/filos/vk/mattila/ | 10:30 |
| tigert | I guess the issue is that with new tools like SPSS and other statistics programs etc, its now up to the researcher him/herself to run the math | 10:31 |
| tigert | where before it could be done by someone else who was a professional in the area | 10:31 |
| tigert | anyway, lunch ok today? | 10:32 |
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| inz | whee, got saw nice aurorae last night | 10:37 |
| tigert | inz: nice | 10:38 |
| inz | shame i only had my mobile w/me | 10:39 |
| inz | it really doesn't take good pictures of them | 10:39 |
| inz | should've had SO's 350D... :/ | 10:40 |
| tigert | yea, phone cameras are ok on good light | 10:43 |
| tigert | but for everything else you get noise and lots of it | 10:43 |
| inz | indeed | 10:44 |
| inz | w/o night mode I got absolutely nothing | 10:44 |
| tigert | are you sure you "got" the aurorae and not just noise patterns? :) | 10:45 |
| suihkulokki | wasn't last night supposed to be rainy and stormy? | 10:46 |
| tigert | it was | 10:47 |
| inz | not in Tampere | 10:51 |
| inz | a bit windy, but no rain | 10:51 |
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| inz | tigert, and yes, i'm quite positive | 10:55 |
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| suihkulokki | right, I forgot there are people north of the wolf barriers | 10:56 |
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| konttori | luch ok by me! | 11:04 |
| konttori | sorry. i was a bit distracted. A friend of mine just told me he got engaged... will get married in spring... and baby will emerge some time in the summer | 11:05 |
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| tigert | heh | 11:18 |
| tigert | konttori: 12:30 ok? | 11:18 |
| konttori | yeah | 11:18 |
| konttori | kamppi? | 11:19 |
| konttori | When I've been looking at the templates mdk sent me, I've been wondering where we'll find the middle road for the template content. I'd like the format to include the possibility of containing icons and special images (like the bootup images) as well | 11:20 |
| konttori | and thus the filename would need to include some kind of identifier for these | 11:20 |
| jonek | hey ho | 11:22 |
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| tigert | kamppi is ok | 11:31 |
| tigert | konttori: yea, we probably should do separate bundles for icons | 11:31 |
| tigert | but it probably should be different | 11:31 |
| tigert | and thememaker could then just combine stuff if needed | 11:32 |
| konttori | hmm.... Hmm..... I'd rather have the file format to support both anyway, if possible. | 11:33 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm does ferenc ever sleep? Commits at 1:23am and 5:43am ;) | 11:42 |
| koen | "We are still collecting and verifying this information." | 11:43 |
| * koen wonders | 11:43 | |
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| X-Fade | tigert: Did you do that 'missing install' icon on the new app catalog? | 11:53 |
| * tigert looks | 11:55 | |
| tigert | give a guess? | 11:55 |
| tigert | hmm | 11:56 |
| tigert | no | 11:56 |
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| X-Fade | Thought so ;) | 11:56 |
| tigert | yeah | 11:56 |
| * tigert fixes | 11:56 | |
| X-Fade | The font is larger and the red color is 'bleeding' ;) | 11:56 |
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| tigert | yeah | 12:10 |
| tigert | updated it, they just need to sync the content | 12:10 |
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| tigert | ok. off to Kamppi | 12:14 |
| tigert | konttori: same bat-place? | 12:14 |
| konttori | Same bat time.. oh wait... almost same bat time | 12:14 |
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| tigert | no wait | 12:16 |
| tigert | michael is still in a meeting | 12:16 |
| tigert | lets hold off until I find him | 12:16 |
| tigert | "five more minutes" he thinks | 12:17 |
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| florian_kc | good morning | 13:41 |
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| jonek | hi, I have a problem using rfcomm (bluetooth) on the 770 | 13:53 |
| jonek | I have a working rfcomm connection with a BT device. it is accessable through /dev/rfcomm0 | 13:54 |
| jonek | but a cat /dev/rfcomm0 doesn't work (prints nothing) if I send a command over the same device with echo "command" > /dev/rfcomm0 | 13:55 |
| jonek | the same is working on a laptop with debian and BT dongle | 13:56 |
| jonek | the only difference seems to be setting I made with stty | 13:56 |
| jonek | stty on the 770 is not capable of setting and showing the line discipline. is that correct? what is the purpose of line discipline? | 13:57 |
| jonek | what else could cause the different behaviour of the rfcomm connection on the 770? maybe a problem with cat? | 13:59 |
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| Anidel | good morning | 14:01 |
| jonek | is hcidmp available for the 770? | 14:07 |
| jonek | s/hcidmp/hcidump/ | 14:07 |
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| jait | jonek: you should be able to do the stty things with termios (tcsetattr) in C code | 15:08 |
| jait | jonek: but I've used also 'cat /dev/rfcomm0' with GPS devices and it usually works, no sure if the 'echo' messes up something... | 15:10 |
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| jait | jonek: you could also try sending commands by starting 'cat >/dev/rfcomm0' and then typing them, which doesn't send an EOF (unless you press ctrl-d) like echo does | 15:14 |
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| ferenc | hello | 15:19 |
| ferenc | is there any lawyer here? | 15:19 |
| nomis | heh. | 15:21 |
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| nomis | "is there a lawyer among the passengers?" | 15:21 |
| florian_kc | hi ferenc | 15:21 |
| ferenc | :) | 15:21 |
| ferenc | hi florian_kc | 15:21 |
| ferenc | OK, then i have a thoretical question: | 15:22 |
| florian_kc | ferenc: what a scary question ;) | 15:22 |
| ferenc | bbl | 15:22 |
| florian_kc | ferenc: now that we are nosy you run away? ;) | 15:24 |
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| tigert | hehe | 15:51 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: i had to talk about some interesting PR stuff :) | 15:53 |
| ferenc | anyway my question is: | 15:53 |
| ferenc | what is the legal risk of a company if they wish to provide a service | 15:54 |
| jait | PR or IPR? | 15:54 |
| ferenc | where 3rd party developers can upload their source codes and the service will | 15:54 |
| ferenc | rebuild the code and publish the binaries | 15:54 |
| ferenc | ? | 15:54 |
| ferenc | i wish someone tells me what is the risk, other than redistributing it from the company's server | 15:55 |
| ferenc | jait: PR. some fancy stuff coming to maemo.org | 15:56 |
| ferenc | jait: they are partially there at test.maemo.org already | 15:57 |
| jait | ok, do you think it matters who does the compilation? | 15:57 |
| jait | the company or some random developer | 15:58 |
| ferenc | jait: this is exactly my doubt. why would it matter by legal point of view? | 15:58 |
| ferenc | i just feel that we are looking for excuses why to delay things all the time | 15:58 |
| koen | ferenc: it shift responsibity | 15:58 |
| ferenc | and i am getting really tired of it | 15:58 |
| koen | shifts* | 15:58 |
| ferenc | koen: yes, i agree | 15:58 |
| ferenc | and it pisses me off | 15:58 |
| jait | to me it seems it's same as current garage except the compilation is done on the company's server | 15:59 |
| ferenc | if i want to delay something then i will rather tell it black and white | 15:59 |
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| ferenc | jait: yes, i agree. | 15:59 |
| ferenc | i wish there was a lawyer among us, maybe the community should hire one volunteer ? :) | 15:59 |
| suihkulokki | sourceforge is in US with much more strict IPR laws, yet they find it acceptable to have build farm | 16:00 |
| ferenc | suihkulokki: we will probably get the green light as well, but you know how much hassle is reviewing this with lawyers? | 16:01 |
| suihkulokki | I know | 16:01 |
| suihkulokki | start a maemo foundation to maintain such service =) | 16:01 |
| keesj | ferenc, the other thing you can say , it that you must have the source of all open source programs you distribute | 16:02 |
| keesj | so accepting only binaries is actually not a real option. | 16:03 |
| ferenc | suihkulokki: yes, that would be a nice workaround | 16:03 |
| ferenc | keesj: yes, good point actually | 16:04 |
| ferenc | well, the bottom line is that there will be no build system for extras this year :( | 16:04 |
| ferenc | i was again way to optimistic, but then the legal train hit me | 16:05 |
| koen | only 16 days left in 'this year' | 16:05 |
| ferenc | koen: i will be away for at least 10 :) | 16:05 |
| ferenc | koen: by the way: could we have openembedded compiling us packages for extras? | 16:06 |
| keesj | I think I head on this irc channel that debian used to work like that (having a build system running for others) | 16:06 |
| koen | ferenc: sure | 16:06 |
| ferenc | koen: what if we setup an experimental system for that? | 16:06 |
| koen | ferenc: it would probably need some fidgetting to get all versions right | 16:06 |
| keesj | but that they stopped because it causes to much maintainers hassle | 16:06 |
| ferenc | we would need 4-5 separate build robots on your side | 16:06 |
| ferenc | koen: so not this year, either, right? | 16:07 |
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| koen | ferenc: not since I have a deadline for a project on 20070101 | 16:07 |
| ferenc | keesj: debian still accepts source upload only. | 16:07 |
| ferenc | koen: OK | 16:07 |
| keesj | I guess a nice mix would be to have a build farm on garage.maemo.org and still let end user test /accept | 16:08 |
| koen | ferenc: send me a mail and cc: florian about OE building for extras | 16:08 |
| ferenc | koen: dont take it for granted pls. it would be just an experiment and strictly community co-operation | 16:09 |
| ferenc | koen: but i will write the mail, yes | 16:09 |
| koen | ferenc: I know | 16:09 |
| ferenc | koen: cool | 16:10 |
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| kender | hi | 16:28 |
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| florian_kc | ferenc: i guess that's a quite complex problem, but by defining clear terms of use it might become easier. | 16:33 |
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| ferenc | florian_kc: i still see no risk, so i don't know why we should get the lawyers opinion, hence delaying the whole thing by light years... | 16:37 |
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| jonek | where can I get hcidump for maemo 2.0? | 16:48 |
| jonek | why isnt't it included anymore (it was in 1.1)? | 16:49 |
| florian_kc | ferenc: well... i see that the lawyers might see a potential risk, but you are right that it is quite unlikely that there is a real risk. | 16:50 |
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| ferenc | florian_kc: lawyers will keep on seeing risk as long as we hire/employ them | 17:01 |
| florian_kc | ferenc: yeah.. well but someone needs to teach them that you might have to live with a low risk if you wan to move forward. | 17:02 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: the only way for us to get around these bottlenecks is to push finally co-operations between us and other communities | 17:02 |
| florian_kc | ferenc: obviously... | 17:03 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: yeah.. also educate paranoid managers. the lawyers never come by themselves. it is actually "us" who go to them... | 17:04 |
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| florian_kc | ferenc: right.... but that's a complicated job | 17:13 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: i believe we make it complicated by ourselves. | 17:14 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: let's take this simple build system. why could not you guys over at OE do these builds for maemo? | 17:14 |
| ferenc | florian_kc: you already rebuilt the SDK back in 2005 May.. | 17:15 |
| ferenc | we did not even give any hints/help... | 17:15 |
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| ferenc | i will have to write that mail koen asked me... | 17:15 |
| koen | because nokia 'accidentily' started depending on closed components after that | 17:15 |
| koen | "you need the MCE sources to build hildon-fm" | 17:16 |
| ferenc | koen: well, yeah. and we wanted full control | 17:16 |
| ferenc | koen: yes, that one.. among others probably | 17:16 |
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| florian_kc | ferenc: yes... i'm not sure if it is really necessary that these things happen but the fact that some things are quite complicated in big companies is a reason why they work with smaller ones. | 17:17 |
| florian_kc | ferenc, koen: But it might be a good idea to investigate what would be necessary to add and build latest maemo bits. | 17:18 |
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| inz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html | 17:40 |
| inz | The SW architecture reminds me of something... | 17:40 |
| Tak | heh | 17:43 |
| Tak | 'The graphics framework is based on GTK+ 2.x, in conjunction with the Matchbox window manager. And, says Moss-Pultz, "We've written our own set of widgets that optimize the UI for smaller devices."' | 17:43 |
| koen | they considered hildon | 17:43 |
| koen | Tak: the view from the gui architect: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/category/opensource/gui-toolkits/ | 17:44 |
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| Tak | he sounds like he's a dev coming from another toolkit who doesn't have a clue about gtk | 17:46 |
| koen | Tak: correct | 17:47 |
| Tak | "zomg no widget overlapping! and teh widgets scale! how can I code?!" | 17:48 |
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| Tak | and then he's using GtkFixed :-/ | 17:51 |
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| keesj | the UI looks a bit like enlightenment | 18:24 |
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| ferenc | florian_kc, koen: i will drop the mail tomorrow or on Sunday. now got to leave. | 18:33 |
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| jonek | has anybody a working hcidump for maemo 2.x at hand? | 18:42 |
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| Anidel | hi guys.. putting Sardine on the MMC right now.. getting a lot of "serious warning: files list file for package '...' missing | 19:02 |
| Anidel | is this ok ? | 19:02 |
| Anidel | and also dpkg-preconfigure... (I am new to the debian package system) | 19:03 |
| Anidel | but I assume this is not a good news...? | 19:04 |
| Anidel | well it says everything is upgraded now..and no package has been left back.. let's try a reboot from the MMC | 19:06 |
| Anidel | uhm..nope.. white screen... | 19:07 |
| Anidel | I just got the shaking hands.. and that's it :/ | 19:07 |
| Anidel | shoot | 19:07 |
| Anidel | :/ | 19:07 |
| Anidel | I'll redo everything again this week end.. let's hope.. | 19:08 |
| Anidel | byeeee | 19:08 |
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| jonek | if anybody needs it - rebuild of debian's stable bluez-hcidump package is strait forward in maemo 2.x | 19:31 |
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| tko | koen, there's pretty strong drive to ensure sardine is self contained | 19:38 |
| koen | If I can get OE to build for sardine I don't need to go through debian hell to make packages | 19:39 |
| koen | which is for me a strong motivator | 19:39 |
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| jonek | is it possible that cat in busybox suffers from weird buffering? I managed to read from /dev/rfcomm0 with "cu -l /dev/rfcomm0". it appears that "cat /dev/rfcomm0" only prints out something if a buffer of approx 8000 bytes has been filled. | 19:50 |
| koen | busybox *is* weirdness | 19:51 |
| nomis | awesome weirdness. | 19:54 |
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| tko | nice: http://www.kuvaton.com/kuvei/tiesitko_etta.jpg | 20:02 |
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| tko | http://www.kuvaton.com/kuvei/nokia_modding.jpg :) | 20:24 |
| keesj | tko, they always do that , they reverse the before and after | 20:26 |
| tko | but you could make an authentic one for your 770 :) | 20:29 |
| keesj | :) | 20:30 |
| keesj | If I can't find my battery charger within 30 minutes yes, | 20:30 |
| tko | http://www.kuvaton.com/kuvei/naiskuski.jpg | 20:31 |
| tko | got to stop now :) | 20:31 |
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| shapr | Hm, I just upgraded to the latest OS2006, and the becomeroot package doesn't work.. any ideas? | 21:30 |
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| koen | install xterm, use gainroot | 21:34 |
| dacc | just install openssh and do it that way | 21:34 |
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| dacc | install with application manager, get your device's ip, and ssh in as root/rootme | 21:37 |
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| mgedmin | shapr: how exactly doesn't it work? | 21:59 |
| tko | hmm, I have an ancient alias for that | 22:04 |
| tko | Look, buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! | 22:04 |
| tko | :) | 22:04 |
| pokute_ | The only thing worse than ircing instead of working is idling on irc. | 22:08 |
| tko | what about idling while working? | 22:09 |
| pokute_ | It's about the same as ircing without working. | 22:12 |
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| keesj | What was the debian tool named to list information about a .deb file (dependencies in this case). | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | dpkg-deb? | 23:02 |
| mgedmin | iirc dpkg also has an option | 23:03 |
| mgedmin | dpkg -I most likely | 23:03 |
| * mgedmin usually uses apt-cache show | 23:03 | |
| keesj | I read it when i was reading about dput | 23:03 |
| keesj | thanks mgedmin that is enough information (dpkg -I) | 23:05 |
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| shapr | mgedmin: I installed the becomeroot package, and then sudo gainroot did nothing. Was that incorrect usage? | 23:22 |
| mgedmin | shapr: becomeroot lets you do 'sudo su' | 23:23 |
| * mgedmin intends to fork becomeroot and change it to allow sudo on anything, not just su | 23:23 | |
| koen | sudo su? | 23:24 |
| koen | isn't sudo -s cleaner? | 23:24 |
| buck68 | slogin root@localhost :) | 23:25 |
| shapr | mgedmin: ohh, that's not what the package page says... | 23:25 |
| mgedmin | koen: becomeroot does echo "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/su" >> /etc/sudoers | 23:26 |
| mgedmin | in its postinst | 23:26 |
| mgedmin | first thing I do after that is sudo su; visudo; and add user ALL = NOPASSWD: ALL | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | oh, there's a new one? | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | I have becomeroot_0.1-1 | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | the application catalog talks about becomeroot_0.1-2 | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | the postinst now does | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | cp /usr/sbin/gainroot /usr/sbin/gainroot.orig | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | sed -e 's/MODE=`\/usr/MODE=enabled #`\/usr/' /usr/sbin/gainroot.orig > /usr/sbin/gainroot | 23:29 |
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| * mgedmin does not understand the reason for the change | 23:30 | |
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