IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2006-12-15

whirmtko: managed to reach this far:00:01
whirmwhy the hell is this happening?00:02
tkothe content of those packages are pretty meaningless anyway (assuming you have some version already installed)00:02
tkosardine is not exactly widely used, but we're shifting to use it for daily development00:03
whirmi cannot understand that:00:03
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whirmtar depends: libc600:03
whirmand conflicts cpio00:04
tkoI'll try to get sardine on the device tomorrow00:04
whirmI have not cpio installed00:04
tkobusybox confuses things..00:04
whirmbut if I try to install tar it clashes with busybox00:05
* whirm looking at what does busybox provides00:05
whirmwow, busybox conflicts with half the distro! XDD00:05
whirmwell, so now my 770 should reboot and sowme the gui right?00:06
tkoin theory, yes.. you might want to try an application on the command line first, just in case00:07
whirmwhat one?00:08
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tkoany. the browser for example00:11
whirmmaemo-launcher: died loading invoked application: 'browser.launch: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'00:12
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whirmNokia770-39:/usr/lib# /usr/bin/browser.launch00:13
whirmSegmentation fault00:13
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tkooh, that's just maemo-launcher :)00:14
tkotry maemo-summoner /usr/bin/browser.launch00:15
whirmtko: and many thanks for the help :-)00:16
inztko, you mean invoker?00:16
tkoinz, nope, summoner. it bypasses the daemon00:16
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inzI can swear it wasn't there last time I looked =)00:17
whirmtko: maybe I must restart X first?00:17
tkoit's fairly new00:17
inzWhich is quite a while aho =)00:17
whirmwhat's the name of the process?00:17
tkowhirm, that's a strange error, "shouldn't happen" :-]00:17
whirm /usr/bin/Xomap maybe?00:17
tkotry another app :)00:17
tkooh, hmm.. at this point the UI isn't running, so it probably just won't work00:18
whirmI killed Xomap and started it as:00:19
whirmand after I started /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server00:19
whirmand then00:19
whirmmaemo-invoker   /usr/bin/browser.launch00:19
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whirmand I get:00:19
whirmand a orange square at the top left part of the screen :-)00:20
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tkoyou'll need at least dbus and gconf running, and with some environment variables (which sets up)00:21
whirmhow do I start gconf?00:23
whirmI started dbus with /etc/init.d script00:23
inzAfaik gconfd is started when needed00:23
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whirmI think Ill risk and restart the device, what do you people think?00:25
whirmcalculator runs great!00:26
* whirm restaring00:26
* whirm crosses fingers00:27
whirmoops, the progress bar was at 100% and I just got a white screen :-(00:27
whirmany advice?00:28
whirmthe poweroff dialog shows up when I press the power button00:28
whirmis possible to enable usb-ethenet with this gadget?00:29
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|tbb|hi all02:08
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konttoriWow. Didn't get much sleep last night and had tennis @ 8 am.10:17
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tigertkonttori: sounds fun :)10:26
tigertdid you hit the ball?10:26
konttoriactaully went surprisingly well10:26
konttoriI have a karonka tonight and I'm a bit worried that I'll fall asleep during the speeches10:27
tigertmichael is not in yet, I'll ask him about lunch time once he gets here10:27
tigertoh, actually he is10:27
tigertkonttori: hehe10:27
tigertyour own or a friend's? :)10:28
konttoriFriends ;)10:28
tigertI had one of a friend last saturday10:28
tigertvery nice, took photos for her10:28
konttoriAhh.. cool. What subject did she study?10:28
tigertit was about using simulated models in research and how the "tools" usefulness is depending a lot on the knowledge and skills of the user of the tool who runs simulations10:29
tigertit was a bit between different areas, but mostly of the philosophical issues10:29
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tigertactually this one:
tigertI guess the issue is that with new tools like SPSS and other statistics programs etc, its now up to the researcher him/herself to run the math10:31
tigertwhere before it could be done by someone else who was a professional in the area10:31
tigertanyway, lunch ok today?10:32
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inzwhee, got saw nice aurorae last night10:37
tigertinz: nice10:38
inzshame i only had my mobile w/me10:39
inzit really doesn't take good pictures of them10:39
inzshould've had SO's 350D... :/10:40
tigertyea, phone cameras are ok on good light10:43
tigertbut for everything else you get noise and lots of it10:43
inzw/o night mode I got absolutely nothing10:44
tigertare you sure you "got" the aurorae and not just noise patterns? :)10:45
suihkulokkiwasn't last night supposed to be rainy and stormy?10:46
tigertit was10:47
inznot in Tampere10:51
inza bit windy, but no rain10:51
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inztigert, and yes, i'm quite positive10:55
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suihkulokkiright, I forgot there are people north of the wolf barriers10:56
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konttoriluch ok by me!11:04
konttorisorry. i was a bit distracted.  A friend of mine just told me he  got engaged... will get married in spring... and baby will emerge some time in the summer11:05
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tigertkonttori: 12:30 ok?11:18
konttoriWhen I've been looking at the templates mdk sent me, I've been wondering where we'll find the middle road for the template content. I'd like the format to include the possibility of containing icons and special images (like the bootup images) as well11:20
konttoriand thus the filename would need to include some kind of identifier for these11:20
jonekhey ho11:22
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tigertkamppi is ok11:31
tigertkonttori: yea, we probably should do separate bundles for icons11:31
tigertbut it probably should be different11:31
tigertand thememaker could then just combine stuff if needed11:32
konttorihmm.... Hmm..... I'd rather have the file format to support both anyway, if possible.11:33
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X-FadeHmm does ferenc ever sleep? Commits at 1:23am and 5:43am ;)11:42
koen"We are still collecting and verifying this information."11:43
* koen wonders11:43
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X-Fadetigert: Did you do that 'missing install' icon on the new app catalog?11:53
* tigert looks11:55
tigertgive a guess?11:55
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X-FadeThought so ;)11:56
* tigert fixes11:56
X-FadeThe font is larger and the red color is 'bleeding' ;)11:56
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tigertupdated it, they just need to sync the content12:10
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tigertok. off to Kamppi12:14
tigertkonttori: same bat-place?12:14
konttoriSame bat time.. oh wait... almost same bat time12:14
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tigertno wait12:16
tigertmichael is still in a meeting12:16
tigertlets hold off until I find him12:16
tigert"five more minutes" he thinks12:17
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florian_kcgood morning13:41
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jonekhi, I have a problem using rfcomm (bluetooth) on the 77013:53
jonekI have a working rfcomm connection with a BT device. it is accessable through /dev/rfcomm013:54
jonekbut a cat /dev/rfcomm0 doesn't work (prints nothing) if I send a command over the same device with echo "command" > /dev/rfcomm013:55
jonekthe same is working on a laptop with debian and BT dongle13:56
jonekthe only difference seems to be setting I made with stty13:56
jonekstty on the 770 is not capable of setting and showing the line discipline. is that correct? what is the purpose of line discipline?13:57
jonekwhat else could cause the different behaviour of the rfcomm connection on the 770? maybe a problem with cat?13:59
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Anidelgood morning14:01
jonekis hcidmp available for the 770?14:07
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jaitjonek: you should be able to do the stty things with termios (tcsetattr) in C code15:08
jaitjonek: but I've used also 'cat /dev/rfcomm0' with GPS devices and it usually works, no sure if the 'echo' messes up something...15:10
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jaitjonek: you could also try sending commands by starting 'cat >/dev/rfcomm0' and then typing them, which doesn't send an EOF (unless you press ctrl-d) like echo does15:14
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ferencis there any lawyer here?15:19
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nomis"is there a lawyer among the passengers?"15:21
florian_kchi ferenc15:21
ferenchi florian_kc15:21
ferencOK, then i have a thoretical question:15:22
florian_kcferenc: what a scary question ;)15:22
florian_kcferenc: now that we are nosy you run away? ;)15:24
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ferencflorian_kc: i had to talk about some interesting PR stuff :)15:53
ferencanyway my question is:15:53
ferencwhat is the legal risk of a company if they wish to provide a service15:54
jaitPR or IPR?15:54
ferencwhere 3rd party developers can upload their source codes and the service will15:54
ferencrebuild the code and publish the binaries15:54
ferenci wish someone tells me what is the risk, other than redistributing it from the company's server15:55
ferencjait: PR. some fancy stuff coming to maemo.org15:56
ferencjait: they are partially there at already15:57
jaitok, do you think it matters who does the compilation?15:57
jaitthe company or some random developer15:58
ferencjait: this is exactly my doubt. why would it matter by legal point of view?15:58
ferenci just feel that we are looking for excuses why to delay things all the time15:58
koenferenc: it shift responsibity15:58
ferencand i am getting really tired of it15:58
ferenckoen: yes, i agree15:58
ferencand it pisses me off15:58
jaitto me it seems it's same as current garage except the compilation is done on the company's server15:59
ferencif i want to delay something then i will rather tell it black and white15:59
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ferencjait: yes, i agree.15:59
ferenci wish there was a lawyer among us, maybe the community should hire one volunteer ? :)15:59
suihkulokkisourceforge is in US with much more strict IPR laws, yet they find it acceptable to have build farm16:00
ferencsuihkulokki: we will probably get the green light as well, but you know how much hassle is reviewing this with lawyers?16:01
suihkulokkiI know16:01
suihkulokkistart a maemo foundation to maintain such service =)16:01
keesjferenc, the other thing you can say , it that you must have the source of all open source programs you distribute16:02
keesjso accepting only binaries is actually not a real option.16:03
ferencsuihkulokki: yes, that would be a nice workaround16:03
ferenckeesj: yes, good point actually16:04
ferencwell, the bottom line is that there will be no build system for extras this year :(16:04
ferenci was again way to optimistic, but then the legal train hit me16:05
koenonly 16 days left in 'this year'16:05
ferenckoen: i will be away for at least 10 :)16:05
ferenckoen: by the way: could we have openembedded compiling us packages for extras?16:06
keesjI think I head on this irc channel that debian used to work like that (having a build system running for others)16:06
koenferenc: sure16:06
ferenckoen: what if we setup an experimental system for that?16:06
koenferenc: it would probably need some fidgetting to get all versions right16:06
keesjbut that they stopped because it causes to much maintainers hassle16:06
ferencwe would need 4-5 separate build robots on your side16:06
ferenckoen: so not this year, either, right?16:07
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koenferenc: not since I have a deadline for a project on 2007010116:07
ferenckeesj: debian still accepts source upload only.16:07
ferenckoen: OK16:07
keesjI guess a nice mix would be to have a build farm on and still let end user test /accept16:08
koenferenc: send me a mail and cc: florian about OE building for extras16:08
ferenckoen: dont take it for granted pls. it would be just an experiment and strictly community co-operation16:09
ferenckoen: but i will write the mail, yes16:09
koenferenc: I know16:09
ferenckoen: cool16:10
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florian_kcferenc: i guess that's a quite complex problem, but by defining clear terms of use it might become easier.16:33
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ferencflorian_kc: i still see no risk, so i don't know why we should get the lawyers opinion, hence delaying the whole thing by light years...16:37
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jonekwhere can I get hcidump for maemo 2.0?16:48
jonekwhy isnt't it included anymore (it was in 1.1)?16:49
florian_kcferenc: well... i see that the lawyers might see a potential risk, but you are right that it is quite unlikely that there is a real risk.16:50
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ferencflorian_kc: lawyers will keep on seeing risk as long as we hire/employ them17:01
florian_kcferenc: yeah.. well but someone needs to teach them that you might have to live with a low risk if you wan to move forward.17:02
ferencflorian_kc: the only way for us to get around these bottlenecks is to push finally co-operations between us and other communities17:02
florian_kcferenc: obviously...17:03
ferencflorian_kc: yeah.. also educate paranoid managers. the lawyers never come by themselves. it is actually "us" who go to them...17:04
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florian_kcferenc: right.... but that's a complicated job17:13
ferencflorian_kc: i believe we make it complicated by ourselves.17:14
ferencflorian_kc: let's take this simple build system. why could not you guys over at OE do these builds for maemo?17:14
ferencflorian_kc: you already rebuilt the SDK back in 2005 May..17:15
ferencwe did not even give any hints/help...17:15
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ferenci will have to write that mail koen asked me...17:15
koenbecause nokia 'accidentily' started depending on closed components after that17:15
koen"you need the MCE sources to build hildon-fm"17:16
ferenckoen: well, yeah. and we wanted full control17:16
ferenckoen: yes, that one.. among others probably17:16
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florian_kcferenc: yes... i'm not sure if it is really necessary that these things happen but the fact that some things are quite complicated in big companies is a reason why they work with smaller ones.17:17
florian_kcferenc, koen: But it might be a good idea to investigate what would be necessary to add and build latest maemo bits.17:18
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inzThe SW architecture reminds me of something...17:40
Tak'The graphics framework is based on GTK+ 2.x, in conjunction with the Matchbox window manager. And, says Moss-Pultz, "We've written our own set of widgets that optimize the UI for smaller devices."'17:43
koenthey considered hildon17:43
koenTak: the view from the gui architect:
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Takhe sounds like he's a dev coming from another toolkit who doesn't have a clue about gtk17:46
koenTak: correct17:47
Tak"zomg no widget overlapping! and teh widgets scale!  how can I code?!"17:48
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Takand then he's using GtkFixed :-/17:51
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keesjthe UI looks a bit like enlightenment18:24
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ferencflorian_kc, koen: i will drop the mail tomorrow or on Sunday. now got to leave.18:33
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jonekhas anybody a working hcidump for maemo 2.x at hand?18:42
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Anidelhi guys.. putting Sardine on the MMC right now.. getting a lot of "serious warning: files list file for package '...' missing19:02
Anidelis this ok ?19:02
Anideland also dpkg-preconfigure... (I am new to the debian package system)19:03
Anidelbut I assume this is not a good news...?19:04
Anidelwell it says everything is upgraded now..and no package has been left back.. let's try a reboot from the MMC19:06
Anideluhm..nope.. white screen...19:07
AnidelI just got the shaking hands.. and that's it :/19:07
AnidelI'll redo everything again this week end.. let's hope..19:08
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jonekif anybody needs it - rebuild of debian's stable bluez-hcidump package is strait forward in maemo 2.x19:31
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tkokoen, there's pretty strong drive to ensure sardine is self contained19:38
koenIf I can get OE to build for sardine I don't need to go through debian hell to make packages19:39
koenwhich is for me a strong motivator19:39
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jonekis it possible that cat in busybox suffers from weird buffering? I managed to read from /dev/rfcomm0 with "cu -l /dev/rfcomm0". it appears that "cat /dev/rfcomm0" only prints out something if a buffer of approx 8000 bytes has been filled.19:50
koenbusybox *is* weirdness19:51
nomisawesome weirdness.19:54
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tko :)20:24
keesjtko, they always do that , they reverse the before and after20:26
tkobut you could make an authentic one for your 770 :)20:29
keesjIf I can't find my battery charger within 30 minutes yes,20:30
tkogot to stop now :)20:31
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shaprHm, I just upgraded to the latest OS2006, and the becomeroot package doesn't work.. any ideas?21:30
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koeninstall xterm, use gainroot21:34
daccjust install openssh and do it that way21:34
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daccinstall with application manager, get your device's ip, and ssh in as root/rootme21:37
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mgedminshapr: how exactly doesn't it work?21:59
tkohmm, I have an ancient alias for that22:04
tkoLook, buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement.  Does it sit on the couch all day?  Does it want more money?  Is it on IRC all the time?  Please be specific!22:04
pokute_The only thing worse than ircing instead of working is idling on irc.22:08
tkowhat about idling while working?22:09
pokute_It's about the same as ircing without working.22:12
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keesjWhat was the debian tool named to list information about a .deb file (dependencies in this case).23:01
mgedminiirc dpkg also has an option23:03
mgedmindpkg -I most likely23:03
* mgedmin usually uses apt-cache show23:03
keesjI read it when i was reading about dput23:03
keesjthanks mgedmin that is enough information (dpkg -I)23:05
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shaprmgedmin: I installed the becomeroot package, and then sudo gainroot did nothing. Was that incorrect usage?23:22
mgedminshapr: becomeroot lets you do 'sudo su'23:23
* mgedmin intends to fork becomeroot and change it to allow sudo on anything, not just su23:23
koensudo su?23:24
koenisn't sudo -s cleaner?23:24
buck68slogin root@localhost  :)23:25
shaprmgedmin: ohh, that's not what the package page says...23:25
mgedminkoen: becomeroot does echo "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/su" >> /etc/sudoers23:26
mgedminin its postinst23:26
mgedminfirst thing I do after that is sudo su; visudo; and add user ALL = NOPASSWD: ALL23:27
mgedminoh, there's a new one?23:28
mgedminI have becomeroot_0.1-123:28
mgedminthe application catalog talks about becomeroot_0.1-223:28
mgedminthe postinst now does23:29
mgedmincp /usr/sbin/gainroot /usr/sbin/gainroot.orig23:29
mgedminsed -e 's/MODE=`\/usr/MODE=enabled #`\/usr/' /usr/sbin/gainroot.orig > /usr/sbin/gainroot23:29
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* mgedmin does not understand the reason for the change23:30
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