IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2006-12-10

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arjanyone here with a samsung phone?00:17
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arjanyone awake?01:00
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nomisarj: yes01:14
arjI'm really having trouble getting my phone + n770 working together01:16
arjI think I'm very close but I'm currently stuck01:17
arj <- thread there01:17
* nomis has not tried this yet.01:18
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jtraI have ported openttd to OS2006, the one on page was only for OS200511:25
jtrait looks cool11:25
jtraand it is actually playable11:25
jtrahowever there are some issues, it does not show icon in taskbar and once you switch to different application, you cannot go back11:26
jtrathe game speed seems smooth11:42
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tkoflying to/from west coast is teh pain.. I'm not sure which timezone I'm in13:59
inztko, use UTC or internet time, then you'll have no trobule =)14:00
tkobut then the sun rises and shops close at really weird (and non-constant) times14:01
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jtraok, I have solved the switching problem with proper desktop file and groomed the makefile14:49
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keesjjtra, did you get gdb working?14:50
jtranow I want to implement full screen in this sdl app, the page with OS2005 version says that he solved this, but the published source tar does not contain this modification apparently14:51
keesjwith it2006 i think it works , at least my app goes full-screen :)14:53
jtrakeesj: the file loads into gdb when run like this: SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/gdb /usr/bin/gdb14:54
jtrabut when I run it, it writes:14:55
jtraqemu: Unsupported syscall: 2614:56
jtraand the program runs without honoring breakpoints14:56
jtra(on SDK_ARM)14:56
keesjidem here :(14:58
jtraoh well, there is fullscreen mode in openttd, but it can be selected in options only, not via fullscreen button15:04
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keesjOpenTTD nice!15:12
keesjit's pretty hard to make good photos or a running n770 with all that reflection15:14
keesjor = of15:14
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jtrawell, for marketing normal foto plus placed screenshot is the best15:16
tigertthe 770 is pretty sweet for games like that, thanks to the nice dpi on the screen15:20
tigerteven though its small, it can fit quite a bit of stuff there15:20
keesjyes , the big screen is was on of the  greatest choices15:23
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tkohmm, drwho actor changed. nothings's the same anymore :)15:34
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dottedmagI'm trying to find sources for the osso-applet-datetime package. Are they around?15:36
keesjplease help me remember.What is this  "osso" in all the applications?15:39
tigertosso is something that people try to get rid of :)15:39
tigertin the app names15:39
tigertits actually the name of the department inside nokia that works on the 770 stuff15:40
tigertand thus its a bit bad name to be used in software projects15:40
tigertbut its there for historical reasons I think15:40
keesjo cool15:40
* dottedmag did clean up last department name from the protocols and source files last week at work :)15:40
tigertlike, the osso-themes we renamed to hildon-themes-*15:40
tigertbecause hildon is the framework15:41
tigertits just a relic15:41
tigertas far as I understand15:41
sxperttigert, what's hildon then ?15:42
tigertyou need to ask tko15:42
tigertI am too new in the organization to know :)15:42
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tigertI know there's a bottle of springwater in the office, it has the brand "Hildon", but I dunno if that is the chicken or the egg15:43
tkohildon is the name for the look and feel we inherited15:43
tigerttko: yep15:43
sxperttko, does "hildon" have a meaning, or it's just a name created by marketing or something ?15:43
inzgoogle search for hildon s90 yields quite a lot of results15:44
tkosxpert, just a name15:44
sxperttko, ah ok15:44
keesjall those names are confusing :) maemo-desktop is the better name right?15:44
tkooh, it's older than I thought15:45
keesjI remember vaguely an entry in Karoliina?s blog15:45
tkowe shoudl just call everything by numbers15:45
dottedmagtko: people don't like UUIDs :)15:45
sxpertdottedmag, haha15:45
tigertecho hildon | md5sum15:46
tigertthats our new name15:46
tigertnow lets all join #10d0524b1392029fc629b4933ac9d1e115:46
dottedmagtigert: nice name with symmetric placement of letters :)15:47
inztigert, I don't like newlines, echo -n hildon | md5sum would be better ;)15:47
dottedmagHmm... Anyway, is there some documentation about internals of those 6c7250109376d6477ff9919216872a4-applets? :)15:48
tkoyou mean echo -n hildon-applets|md5sum ? :)15:49
keesjno no , that is an excellent idea some name with a enter a backslash a minus and a quote perhaps &hil-d0n's;\n0x8802(enter)15:49
sxperthow about using sha1 instead. everyone knows md5 is dead :D15:49
dottedmagI just tried to add my timezone to the system. Everything works except control panel/desktop applets. They show timezone as 'cloc_db_city_<my locale>'.15:50
tkodottedmag, you didn't translate the new timezone :)15:51
tigertbecause you need a translation too15:51
dottedmagah, good.15:51
dottedmagIt's less misterious now.15:51
tkotoo bad I've no idea if you can extend existing precompiled message catalogs15:52
dottedmagare they in standard gettext format?15:52
tkowell, I'm sure you can, but I've no idea how easily15:52
inzshould work15:54
jtraok, I managed to get working hardware zoom button, but hardware fullscreen button still refuses to work in my openttd15:55
tkoI suppose locales do not include translations for timezones?15:56
dottedmagtko: they do. osso-clock-l10n-enus15:57
tkodottedmag, I meant standard mechanism, like strftime %a and such15:58
dottedmagah. No, standard timezones just provide IDs (such as Asia/Novosibirsk).15:59
dottedmagUpdated .mo. Works fine.16:00
dottedmagProbably I could ask developers for inclusion of one more timezone in standard setup? :)16:00
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qgilhi, fyi I just arrived to Helsinki and I'll be Monday & Tuesday around for pre-visit, first assignments, first housing visits... +7 degrees!! What should I do with the snow rackets now??17:52
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AD-N770hi qgil17:59
AD-N770qgil: bona sort en aquest nou projecte :)18:00
qgilhi AD-N770 :)  hum, I saw your name sounded in a familiar language18:00
qgilgrĂ cies  :)18:00
qgilAD-N770: now I realise that the author of       The Hitchhiker's Guide to the N770 Galaxy is a guy from Igualada!18:03
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AD-N770not me, only it's a book that inspired me18:03
AD-N770we met at GUADEC too18:04
qgilmmmmm, sure - the problem is that I met more people I was able to remember -  :(18:04
qgila picture would definitely help18:05
qgilor a caption of a conversation18:05
AD-N770I was with the ppl that mounted wifi on the event18:05
qgilbtw, do you know the CLAM people at UPF?18:05
keesjhmm did bluetooth work in scratchbox?18:06
qgilok, then I have only two faces in my mental databse, hopefully one of them is yours  :)18:06
qgilAD-N770: I'm mentioning the CLAM people because they were thinking (starting to think) of porting something useful for musicians to Maemo, and since you have done some work on this...18:08
AD-N770The tuner tool was an idea that I had during GUADEC, the true is that is an old  idea that I keep in my mind until now18:10
AD-N770I'm working at Fluendo now, and I used this project to introduce myself in gstreamer18:11
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qgilAD-N770: funny, so you are "the local guy" someone told me that Fluendo had finally hired  :)18:17
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AD-N770qgil: sip, a picture of me at
dwdAnyone know why network connectivity wouldn't work within scratchbox for maemo-launched stuff?18:18
qgilAD-N770: right, now I remember you  :)18:19
dwdNormally it does, but I'm running over PPP (GPRS on a train).18:19
qgilAD-N770: congratulations, man. It's not easy to get a free software developer job in Catalonia18:20
dwdSpecifically, it's giving me "no route to host" for any IP addresses.18:20
AD-N770qgil: I'm agree18:21
* dwd once ended up learning Catalan by accident, rather a long time ago.18:21
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AD-N770dwd: I'm not sure if it's relevant or not, usually when I want scp files from scratchbox to my n770 I have to use fakeroot18:25
jtraok, the full screen issue is resolved18:25
AD-N770dwd, I think that probably is a question of permisions18:26
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inzAD, and you've specified user name to use on the 770? (i.e. -u root or root@)18:29
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AD-N770inz: I usually compile in scratchbox, and after i use to fakeroot scp stufftocopy root@192.168.:~ or to the desired destination18:34
AD-N770I use to keep the wifi up with ping from another console18:34
inzThat's weird, fakeroot shouldn't make any difference there :o18:35
AD-N770I've dropbear installed18:35
AD-N770but without it scp didn't worked for me, could be a problem on my scratchbox18:36
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jtraI made a page for openttd, anybody keen to test it?18:59
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keesjjtra, how big is it?19:04
keesjjtra, will I need the data files?19:06
jtra.deb file is 1.2MB, expanded to 2.8MB, but you need to place 5.6MB non-free files to card19:07
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minrai have such a beautiful encoding of a Bill Hicks performance for the 77019:43
minrawish it were allowed to share it19:43
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minrai pulled down the brightness to make all the dark colors black, with -vf eq and then upped the contrast and the gamma.  that got rid of all the dark information and the only stuff that got encoded was the performer19:43
minra880 MB mpeg2 down to 200 MB divx with subjective quality improvement19:44
minrathx to jaffa for the script that got me started19:45
minrahey scummvm does the fm perfectly without sound problems19:45
minrawere there improvements to the sound driver kernel with -39?19:46
* minra shuts up19:46
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Takany fceu users awake?22:02
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keesjwhat;'s the best way to wipte canola?22:20
keesjThere was so much buzz that I installed it , I still don't know that is is :)22:21
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minrahi.  is Tak around?22:35
keesjbut it's not me !22:37
minrai found scummvm has no problem doing fm midi emulation22:37
minrait can even do advmame 2x emulationn and sound without problems22:37
minrakeesj have you found that some apps have stuttering sound on the 770?22:38
Takminra: hello22:38
Takimplemented pixel doubling22:39
minrai am suspecting some esd or driver probblems22:39
Takthere's a decent speed boost for fceu22:39
minraYOU RULE :I22:39
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TakI have room for about 4 buttons down the left side22:40
TakI was wondering what would be useful to put there22:41
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TakI was thinking save/load, and change the +/- (again) to vol control22:44
Takthen there would be room for 2 more22:44
minraput the vol on the plus minus buttons22:44
Takso what to put in the other two slots...22:45
minraanother thing... some kind of instructions about what buttons do what... a readme or a -h22:45
minrai dunno...22:45
minrai never found out if you also got the stuttering sound problem22:45
minrai wonder if it is kernel related22:45
Takit doesn't exactly stutter, but it's not fantastic22:46
Takalthough that's probably related to the fact that it's running at the lowest possible quality22:47
minraok no no no22:48
TakI could make the other two onscreen Select and Start - then no more button problems ;-)22:48
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minrawell... i would like to help with issues for keyboard users also22:49
minrabut i need to talk to you when i am not in bars... i need to get a home and not be a homeless freak... to do anything productive22:49
minraanyway stuttering is not an issue of low frequencies22:49
minrawhat kernel are you testing on? pls22:49
Takthe stock scirocco one22:49
minraso you updated your flash to a dev filesystem? or you are booting to a mmc?22:51
TakI flashed the second 2006 image...22:51
minraok so when you run fceu games at fskip 4 you dont hear a blerp-blerp-blerp- stuttering sound?22:55
minrai hear it frequently in xmame and fceu, but not in scummcm22:56
Takno, not with 0.98.12-522:56
minrai also hear stuttering occasionally with stock mameo apps, for e.g. when i shut down... the sample plays, there is a brief stutter, then it shuts down22:56
minraah.. interesting...22:56
Takand not with fskip 2 after pixel doubling22:56
minraok so it might be an issue with how fast the app feeds the sound22:57
keesjTak, did  pixel doubling help?22:58
Taka bit22:58
Takfceu went from having to drop 4 frames for playability to 2 frames22:58
minrai was worried that there might be scheduling / buffering problems with the kernel or esd22:58
TakI experimented a lot with the buffers in the fceu esd driver22:59
TakI was never able to get better performance than what we have currently22:59
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TakI can play music with the media player and run fceu simultaneously without sound skipping23:04
Takalthough it does lag fceu a bit23:04
Takthat is, no fceu sound, only the audio playing23:04
minraok i need to upgrade.   i am still on 2006 from nokia23:04
Takfirst or second?23:04
minrai just upgraded the kernel... i forgot what i think -2523:05
minradid not change filesystem at all23:05
Takhow do you tell what priorities things are running at on the device?23:05
TakI know the "<" signifies higher priority, but what priority is that, exactly23:06
minradunno... there is no nice.. but there is a renice command23:06
ssvbTak, default media player uses gstreamer, audio codecs are implemented in DSP23:06
ssvbthat's why it is different from using esd23:07
Takesd doesn't offload to the dsp?23:08
minrayeah i know that too23:08
ssvbalso DSP seems to have some relation with sound output (even using esd you end up there), running codecs directly there probably improves chances of sound skipping23:08
minraat this point i am afraid of saying embarassing things... i want to port things someday.  i used to be a programmer.23:08
minrabut now i am kind of ... stupid23:09
Taksomeone gave me the impression that, since it's raw audio, there was no benefit to gstreamer over esd23:09
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ssvbboth gstreamer and esd are some extra layers23:10
ssvbi don't know which one of them is less evil :)23:10
TakI don't suppose there's a way I can dump audio semi-directly onto the dsp?23:10
ssvbmaybe looking at gstreamer dsp plugins sources can give some insights23:11
ssvbthey are not very good documented yet though23:11
ssvbdo you need a link?23:12
Taksure, will save me some time23:13
ssvbwell, they are here anyway:
ssvbI had a look at them already, I was implementing framebuffer based video output code with hardware YUV colorspace support for mplayer this weekend23:15
ssvblooks like it should be possible to relay some scaling and image displaying work to DSP, source of dspfbsink has some insights about DSP interface23:17
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ssvbkeesj, sorry, i did not try to compile xmoto yet, mplayer took all the time on this weekend23:20
ssvbalso xmoto seems to depend on a lot of libraries23:20
keesjssvb, don't worry , it sounds like you had a lot of fun23:20
keesjssvb, yes lua and ode (but those where shiped) and sdl_gfx was hacked23:21
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keesjI think it's getting almost playable, 8 fps23:22
ssvbfound another bottleneck?23:22
keesjno, I changed the game physics a bit :)23:24
ssvbkeesj, good to know that, once you consider it is worth playtesting by other people, register a garage project for it :)23:28
ssvbTak, by the way, do you think hardware accelerated rotation could be useful for games?23:29
keesjI would :)23:31
minrai used to do work for graphics cards in 198723:32
minradoesnt arm just use a framebuffer? (dumm qquest)23:33
ssvbLCD controller supports it (see, but I don't know if it is supported in omapfb and x11 extensions api23:33
ssvbmaybe some kernel patch will be required to support it23:35
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ssvbi never tried kernel hacking myself, so maybe the best option for us is to find out how many people would like to have this feature first and look for someone who is capable to implement it :)23:37
minradoes nokia have a developer interface to the community?23:38
minrawouldnt they be interested in core features?23:39
ssvbminra, it uses framebuffer, but framebuffer does not represent video memory itself, in order to get something on the screen, you call some ioctl which transfers data from a framebuffer to actual videomemory23:39
ssvbit can perform some transformations on this data while fetching it from framebuffer memory23:40
minraah.. neat23:40
minrado you know of any apps that do transforms on that data? or is everything done ins software?23:41
ssvbimage doubling is one of the examples of such transformations, colorspace conversion is another, prabably it can also support rotation 'on the fly'23:41
ssvbbut i don't see anything related to rotation in omapfb.h header23:42
minranokia should be helping.23:42
ssvbbtw, a new mplayer build is uploaded to garage:
Takat least for xmame23:45
Takwow, I'm having some serious network issues23:45
Takwhat about in libXsp ?23:45
ssvbTak, anyway, libXsp uses framebuffer ioctls in the end23:45
Taktrue enough23:45
ssvblibXsp does not support YUV colorspace in its API right now, so I had to go down one layer23:46
minrayou found libxsp for maemo?23:46
ssvbminra, yes its sources are also available somewhere (can't find a link right now), also I had a look into xserver-kdrive to check how it works internally23:49
minrai just know apps should convert to 16 bit before blitting, and use rect blit, not fullscreen...23:50
minrai am not worthy to chat here.  really... if you need help in germany i can help with other things. respect.23:51
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keesjssvb, there was a mail on the mailing list about this right it was called Specification for Epson S1D13742 Mobile Graphics Engine23:57
ssvbkeesj, i know, i already have it :)23:58
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