IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2006-12-08

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arjstill looking for ppp people :D00:37
TakYou down with PPP?00:39
arjI'm having a little trouble getting it running00:41
* sxpert has now a brand new debian system...00:42
koen'brand new' and 'debian' in the same sentence?00:44
ssvbsxpert, i hope it does not have a brand new kernel ;-)00:45
sxpertssvb, apt-get install scratchbox installs 1.0.7 or something00:45
sxpertkoen, brand new as in, just ripped the package :D00:45
ssvbby the way, is it possible to upgrade gcc for use with maemo sdk to something better than 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)?00:49
ssvbit seems a bit too buggy for me00:49
sxpertyou probably can, but you may have issues with c++ though00:50
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sxpertok. progress.01:15
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sxpertnow, I can't seem to start xephyr...01:15
sxpertit complains about DISPLAY not being set01:15
Takare you using the PC profile?01:16
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sxpertI think I did.01:17
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* sxpert tries again01:19
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sxpertTak, can't get it to work01:25
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Takdo you, in fact, have DISPLAY set?01:25
sxpertbefore logging into scratchbox, yes01:25
Takhave you tried resetting it once you're logged in?01:26
sxpertif I manually set DISPLAY, I get permission errors from the server01:26
Taktry `xhost +localhost` or `xhost +` (outside of scratchbox)01:26
sxpertxhost + did it01:27
sxpertis there something I could hack ?01:28
Takwhat do you mean?01:28
sxpertok. I hacked my .profile to copy .Xauthority where it needs copied :D01:30
sxpertI'm all set :D01:34
sxpertguess I can start hacking on my app now :D01:34
pvanhoofflorian, ping01:52
florianpvanhoof: yessss01:52
nomispvanhoof: I am Simon btw.  :)02:03
pvanhoofhi :)02:03
* nomis waves02:03
pvanhoofflorian, you are of course allowed to forward that mail to nomis02:03
florianpvanhoof: ok, great02:04
pvanhoofjust don't start forwarding those prices/rates to just anybody :p02:04
nomisflorian: I think I'll visit KC tomorrow afternoon.02:05
floriannomis: even better :-)02:06
|tbb|i wish i can resize those applets by myself ;(02:07
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pvanhoofnomis, did I already replied your mail?02:12
pvanhoofit's marked as important, but I forgot whether I already replied it or not02:13
pvanhoofif so, the reply is in the sent-box of my email client at my current customer02:13
pvanhoofhrmm .. sucks , having two email clients02:13
pvanhoofanyway, if I didn't .. florian now knows some stuff :)02:14
nomispvanhoof: I got a reply, thanks.02:14
nomispvanhoof: I however did not yet reply in return.02:14
pvanhoofoh right02:14
pvanhoofI found it02:15
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pvanhoofflorian, are you kc guys checking out fosdem in februari?02:27
pvanhoofhey, we Belgians also visit LinuxTag and GUADEC/Stuttgart :), you should! :)02:28
florianpvanhoof: i'm pretty sure we'll be there...02:28
nomisfor me it depends a bit on university schedule, but I believe it will be possible.02:29
florianpvanhoof: the only reason i missed the last one was Jonas :-)02:29
pvanhoofwe don't eat babies in Belgium. You can bring him :)02:29
pvanhoofwell, most Belgians don't02:29
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pvanhoofnot afaik, but maybe they are keeping me out of their secret community of baby eaters02:29
florianpvanhoof: heh02:30
florianwell.. time to get a little rest02:32
floriangood night02:32
pvanhoofgood night02:32
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* nomis heads for the bed as well. Night.02:39
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spectgood night03:37
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jsun_hi -06:05
jsun_I just followed the maemo 2.1 tutorial to install sdk pc06:05
jsun_the tutorial says Xephyr is preinstalled.06:06
jsun_but I can't seem to find it.06:06
jsun_anybody knows what is wrong here: me or the tutorial? :)06:06
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tigertwhat distro?10:15
tigertif you can not find it, check that your commandline has the correct case for it, also it wasnt installed at least in ubuntu. make sure you are not trying to run it from scratchbox10:17
tigertsince its not in there afaik.10:17
dpbWho are you talking to? jsun_? The person who's not here?10:18
JaffaMorning, all10:19
dpbXephyr was atleast in the 1.1 x86 maemo rootstrap10:19
tigertoh heh10:34
tigerti filter out joins and parts10:34
tigertless noise, but that is the side-effect ;)10:35
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keesjI want to try the fast memcopy. can anyboy help with me with that?11:24
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florian_kchi all13:08
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ssvbhi keesj, what kind of help do you need with fast memcopy?13:18
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dwdSo... If I want to make a fool of myself by asking basic [py]GTK questions, should I ask here or am I better off in #pygtk?14:16
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* mgedmin would guess #pygtk14:19
mgedminunless these questions are specific to maemo14:19
mgedminuh, there's no #pygtk on freenode14:20
dwdmgedmin: It's hiding away on gimpnet.14:21
myrenwhats your client?14:21
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keesjssvb, I am not a asm guru :) How do I know if the new memcpy is used14:34
keesjI have included the .h file in my project and replaced memcpy with memcpy32. but I would like to build SDL and SDL_gfx with the memcpy feature14:35
ssvbkeesj: memcpy32 is not a replacement for memcpy (it is a variant that deals with 32-bit values instead of bytes), you just need to use arm9_memcpy instead of memcpy14:42
ssvbalso probably ARM optimized version of SDL is needed, I did not check what version of SDL is used in maemo and if it has any patches, but upstrem SDL did not seem to have any ARM optimizations the last time I checked it14:44
keesjssvb, I am currently using it to clear the screen (copy image data to the main buffer)14:44
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ssvbkeesj, do you see any performance improvement using it?14:45
keesjno , not at all14:45
ssvbcan I have a look at your sources?14:46
keesjI still have the same framerate ,14:46
keesjyou want everything? just the copy code?14:46
keesj(I am working on a xmoto port)14:47
ssvbeverything would help to see the whole picture, but just the copy code should be enough14:47
ssvbcan you provide some link to it?14:48
keesji can make a tar14:48
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keesjhmm :)14:53
ssvbkeesj: by the way, did you try to profile xmoto to see what parts of it are the most performance critical and need optimizations the most? what is the current framerate?14:54
keesjssvb, yes i did14:54
keesjbut I only can profile on my machine (i386)14:56
keesjI have a framerate of 4.4414:56
ssvbkeesj, in this case, screen copy should not take that much time and bottleneck is most likely somewhere else14:58
ssvbI also find profiling on x86 quite useful, and valgrind (with callgrind tool) is excellent for this14:59
keesjthere are heavy parts that use the ODE library and floating point , but I don't want to change that part14:59
ssvbmy athlon xp 2400+ seems to run in valgrind even a bit faster than the same program natively on Nokia 770 :)14:59
keesjidem here15:00
keesjssvb, this is the current profiler output
keesjI am working on the hlineColor . (takes 33% right now) .15:02
keesjit's a loop that I want to replace with a few memcpy's
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keesjif I remove that critial part the next thing that take time is the clearScreen (5%)15:08
keesjSo I guessed that a fast memcpy would improve speed a lot.15:09
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ssvbkeesj, that loop is very inefficient (also getting remainder is very expensive on arm, it does not have a dividion instruction)15:11
ssvbif you rewrite it without the use of % operator, it will become a lot faster15:11
keesjso that might be the bottleneck15:12
waitekeesj, Take a look at
waiteThere are a few versions of Computing modulus with a division operator15:15
keesjyour all a great help!15:16
waiteThe routine is really short so make it a function and just substitute the % with modulus(z, (sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w  ))15:17
pokute_hmm. if sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w is a constant for the duration of the loop, you can replace it with a if (z >= sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w) z = 0 ; Could be a bit faaster15:17
ssvbkeesj, did you try memcpy that is currently commented out in that code?15:17
keesjpokute_, I just did that15:18
ssvbkeesj, do you have any estimate how many pixels are usually copied in that loop?15:19
pokute_Gah, I was slow...15:19
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keesjthis method is used in a filledPolygon method15:20
keesjthe last step is to draw on the screen so the value is something between 1 and 80015:21
waitekeesj, here:
keesjthe code used to draw a single color, but I have changed it so it draws textures15:21
ssvbkeesj, the fastest code for this loop would be to use arm9_memcpy16 function from
ssvbit was specifically designed to copy 16-bit pixel data15:22
keesjwaite, perhaps even inline?15:23
waiteSure. It would be fne inline also15:23
keesjwaite, and that is less cpu then the if statement?15:23
waiteIt relpaces this stmt: ( z %  (sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w  )15:24
ssvbkeesj, in this particular code 'if ' statement should be faster15:24
waiteI was focusing on line 6 of your paste15:24
keesjwaite, pokute_ proposed if (z >= sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w) z = 015:24
waiteI agree15:25
keesjbecause it's constant?15:25
pokute_keesj: another proposal.15:25
pokute_having separate start and z is useless.15:25
pokute_or wait, nope, won't work. :-/15:26
keesjso what the code actually is trying to do is to is to draw a line using a texture.15:27
waiteIti is early and I have not had a full coffee, but how does:  if (z >= sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w) z = 0 satisfy the algo?15:27
pokute_ahh. maybe if you make. z = z + start before the loop. then have [z] instead of [start + z] and have if (z >= (precalculated_sdl_gfxTextureSurfaceWPlusStart) z = start ;15:29
pokute_get rid of one addition calculation per loop run.15:29
pokute_Or forget that. :-D15:30
pokute_I got a more clear proposition.15:30
keesjthe problem is that it doesn't start a 015:31
pokute_have (Uint16 *) precalculatedpixelarray = (Uint16*) sdl_gfxTexture->surface->pixels[start] ; before the loop15:32
pokute_that way you can use precalculatedpixelarray[z] inside the loop15:32
pokute_after all, start is a constant variable, it's useless to have inside the loop.15:33
pokute_argh. paste-it doesn't seem to allow for adding annotations to existing pastes15:35
keesjno that will not work this is an Image of what I am trying to do . I need start inside the loop15:35
pokute_hmm? Why not?15:36
keesjstart is the start "x" value of texture. but z need to be reset before texture->w iterations15:37
pokute_(void *) a = 0xc0debeef ; (void *) b = a [20] ;  In this case a [20 + x] and b [x] point to the same position, no?15:38
keesjalright  if (z == texture->w) then z -= texture->w15:38
pokute_no need for that. :-) as z never rises more than 1 at a time.15:38
pokute_Look at the latest proposal, I already said that the second proposal was more cleaner. :-)15:39
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pokute_And there's still more to optimize. :-)15:42
pokute_But that would require some more obscure code.15:44
pokute_depends on the size of sdl_gfxTexture->surface->w. If it's more than 50 then more optimization would make sense.15:45
keesjpokute_, it depends on the texture some are smaller and other are larger15:48
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pokute_well, it would be a lot more complicated, so better try to optimize somewhere else first. :-)15:49
keesjI have a bit of information overdose right now!15:49
ssvbkeesj, you mentioned that original code did not use textures, maybe it is better to try it first and add texturing if you have spare cpu power :)15:50
keesjssvb, it was opengl :)15:50
keesjSo I have rewritten most of the calls to SDL_gfx15:51
keesjthis was the first run , it was not using filled or textured surfaces
ssvbkeesj: I see, anyway, I will be around tomorrow and will have much more spare time on weekend, so I can help with optimizing some critical code using ARM assembly15:52
keesjthat would be great!15:52
keesjthanks for you time15:53
pokute_assemblör <315:53
pokute_keesj: can you test the code I pasted?15:58
pokute_tho I'm surprised that the line to draw is axis-aligned on the texture.16:03
pokute_makes everything so much easier.16:04
pokute_and that much weirder16:05
|tbb|is it possible to play divx on n770 smoothly?16:35
Jaffa|tbb|: yes, DivX is the best format for playback on the 77016:38
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adoyle|tbb| - I've just managed to get great video results with the Perl script here: - I used the 2nd example command on a Qucktime .mov and produced a great looking .avi16:42
Jaffaadoyle: glad you found it useful :)16:42
adoyleIs that your page, Jaffa?16:42
Jaffaadoyle: indeed it is16:42
adoyleWell, then, thanks!16:42
JaffaMy pleasure :)16:43
adoyleHere's a 1.5 minute clip of Doc Edgerton talking about strobe lights -
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keesjpokute_, I tried the code for some reason it all doesn't help much on i386 ,17:15
keesjperhaps its the function that is just called to often17:15
pokute_keesj: make it inline?17:17
pokute_But optimization on a processor with high-level out-of-order execution is a whole different beast than optimization for an embedded processor.17:18
keesjYes , will try it now on the n77017:18
pokute_some arm instruction set clock cycle reference chart would help.17:22
pokute_For example, could it be faster to have the z count down towards zero and use use if (z == 0) z = somefunvalue;17:23
pokute_probably if z--; sets the zero-flag. :-)17:23
keesjwhel it helped the framerate to 6 on the n77017:25
pokute_what was it previously?17:25
pokute_and compared to what code?17:25
keesjthe code I first posted17:25
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keesjfirst now
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pokute_So if it took originally 33% then now it takes a significantly less... Time to find optimization target somewhere else now. :-)17:27
keesjthanks a lot ,17:28
pokute_Or just to profile it again. :-)17:28
pokute_I remember that cachegrind had some wonderful per-instruction profiling or something as ridicilously useful.17:29
dwdpokute_: cachegrind doesn't do ARM, though, does it?17:29
pokute_Curses, but maybe there's some profiling stuff on an arm emulator.17:30
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pokute_an arm emulator would be about the best places to put an profiler. :-)17:30
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pokute_keesj: Do you mind profiling the program again with this code? :-)17:31
pokute_depending on the results, I'll give make an even better optimized version. :-d17:32
Takkeesj: are you testing with or without sound?17:33
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TakI gained a ton of performance going from sdl audio to esd (for raw pcm)17:37
Takand if it's using any kind of compressed audio, a gstreamer interface will probably help massively17:38
ssvbkeesj, I'm glad you could improve performance somewhat, as I told you earlier, integer division is slow on arm (it has no special instruction for that and needs software emulation), that's why it makes such a huge difference17:39
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ssvbTak: gstreamer is probably not a very good choice for sound effects in games17:40
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* Tak shrugs17:40
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Takdepends how they're doing the sound effects17:41
ssvbit may work for background music though17:41
ssvbgstreamer has quite a large and unpredictable latency on nokia 77017:42
TakIME that's true of audio in general on 77017:42
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ssvbkeesj, if you have lots of floating point math, that affects performance quite significantly and profiling on x86 does not provide a whole picture17:46
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ssvbI wonder if it is easy to assign somewhat higher cost to floating point instructions in callgrind to make the statistics look close to what would be observed on arm17:47
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kendergood evening17:48
TakI still have a whole friday to get through :-/17:50
ssvbkeesj, you can also try to compile the game with -pg gcc option and use gprof to get statistics from running it on arm17:50
ssvbunfortunately when I tried this with mplayer, it did not work unless all the optimizations are disabled :(17:51
ssvbkeesj: mplayer just crashed, but some small simple code samples worked ok, maybe you will have more luck with xmoto17:51
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sxpert-worktigert: have an LD-3W linked question. have you tried putting it under your hat and roam around with the 770 in hand ?18:12
kendersxpert, xDD18:15
pokute_Probably not really needed now, but once it becomes colder.18:15
kenderso, you are nokia 770adict?18:17
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tigertsxpert, i have an arm pocket on  my jacket18:25
tigertworks fine for the gps18:25
keesjssvb, I will try the -pg gcc , option , there are many floating point  calucations but I remove them the game will be a totaly different game18:27
pokute_keesj: the point is to use fixed points, but replacing all instances in a existing program is going to be a pain.18:28
keesjyes ,and ode used it , and i don't want to rewrite ode :)18:29
pokute_But you could try to use pixel doubling for drawing the backgrounds. Then switch to normal mode to redraw the polygon edges and the player. :-)18:29
keesjI din;t know this was possible18:30
ssvbpokute_, did you try it?18:30
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keesjpokute_, on i386 it all did not make such a big difference18:31
pokute_keesj: what made/didn't make difference?18:32
ssvbkeesj, using pixel doubling, you effectively reduce screen resolution, so you program works faster as it needs to handle less pixels18:32
ssvbthat may be an interesting option18:33
ssvbthough I doubt that you can easily get pixel doubled background and normal size sprites18:33
keesjpokute_, the %usage of the hlineColor was 33% and now 31% . But I don't remember the framerates18:33
keesjI hope that I can draw the background with one memcpy option it already works18:34
pokute_keesj: figures that the difference on x86 would be almost the same.18:34
keesjit doesn't :)18:36
ssvbkeesj, by the way, what is stored in 'pixx' variable in your sample code?18:37
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keesjpixx = dst->format->BytesPerPixel;18:38
keesjso 2 in this case18:38
keesjbut I will never get a better performance then memset(xxxxx,xxx,xxx) right?18:39
ssvbi see, performance of this function can be doubled in this case18:39
ssvbto get better performance, you should write not 16-bit values to memeory, but combine pairs and write them as 32-bit values18:41
keesjby using int32?18:41
ssvbyou will have to unroll loop for that18:41
pokute_ssvb: and maybe take account the alignment18:42
pokute_A gain of 5 percent could be archieved for having textures in memory for both alignments. :-)18:43
ssvbanyway, it is interesting to know how much time does this function actually take on arm in order to know whether it is worth optimizing it more18:43
keesjpokute_, the texture data is created on the same machine, I think I could just use int32 on either platforms18:44
ssvbbut you can just use optimized memcpy and not bother about that18:45
pokute_ssvb: that doesn't work very well with texture wrapping.18:46
ssvbso your loop will be replaced by a few memcpy calls, you will have to calculate how many consecutive pixels can be copied and call memcpy on each iteration18:46
pokute_Tho it would be feasible to replace the loop with a loop running memcpy's18:47
keesjssvb, Yes that was my first idea18:47
keesjbut I did learn a lot today!18:47
pokute_And I really would like to know how much performance penalty there is for switching pixel doubling on/off and whether if affects the existing framebuffer.18:48
ssvbpokute_, that's exactly what I tried to suggest, maybe my english is not good enough :)18:49
* Jaffa bahs at blogs which don't allow comments (e.g. Devesh's) unless you're also a blogger on the same system.18:49
ssvbswitching pixel doubling should cost nothing18:49
ssvbthat's just a flag that is used in screen update kernel ioctl18:50
ssvbif i remember this correctly, need to check omapfb sources again18:50
ssvbbut anyway, you will have to turn it on/off only once per frame, so it does not matter18:51
pokute_Yeah, I was thinking of switching the pixel doubling for filling the backgrounds.18:52
keesjwithout the code the framerate is 6.26 so there is still something to be gained , but I will have to look elsewhere18:52
ssvbyou will have problems with blitting sprites in this case18:52
pokute_keesj: Without the code? You mean texture copying code?18:53
keesjyes , i removed the whole loop18:53
pokute_ssvb: Just use mipmapped one. :-)18:53
pokute_5/4 of memory usage is not bad for vast improved speed18:54
pokute_If you want to retain both versions of the texture.18:54
ssvbkeesj, so i guess optimizing this function more you can gain about 0.1 fps improvement18:55
pokute_Indeed. No use in optimizing it more.18:56
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pokute_keesj: comment out entirely the level drawing and then report the result. :-) Should give a lot more info on where to fix.18:57
minraive been using the 770 for my only internet computer (no computer at home) and it is truly incredible18:57
pokute_minra: It rocks, I don't really miss my pc when I'm visiting at my father's place. Have irc, videos, web and internet radio. Tho when I run out of videos to watch...18:59
minrais the 770 graphics a typical ARM simple framebuffer type device?  or is some kind of acceleration available?18:59
Takagreed - the only thing I need is a wifi antenna18:59
minrayeah usb hard drive with battery would be nice18:59
Takthere's not enough wifi here18:59
pokute_minra: there's supposed to be some kind of graphics acceleration and the comments I've heard is that it sucks.19:00
minraeurope has limited wifi power.  in the usa 1000mw is allowed, so we are at a disadvantage19:00
Tak"here" is "Texas" in my case ;-)19:00
ssvbkeesj: ... or try to run -pg build and get gprof statistics :)19:00
minraif we could get 2x scaling accelerated then the emulators (mame, fceu) would be much more usable19:00
Takagreed, although fceu is very usable right now19:01
pokute_minra: well, 2x (double pixel mode) is available.19:01
minrai am in contact with the xmame maintainer... if i can help him with info on 2x accel, that would be great19:01
pokute_And I've understood that 2x is without performance penalty whatsoever.19:02
minrabtw.  i am playing spacwar, gravitar, joust with no problems.  robotron is also ok19:02
pokute_minra: The maemo wiki has stuff on that.19:02
minrathat would be awesome19:02
minraok will look thanks19:02
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ssvbminra: it is here -
* Tak is looking at it now19:06
* Tak is the xmame/fceu/vba maintainer ;-)19:07
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minrawhat do i need to install to get "ping"?19:12
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keesjI generated a gmon.out but it doesn't contain information file is missing call-graph data . I will need to learn gprof :)19:18
Takis there no libXsp on debian/i386 ?19:18
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minrai am trying to find the .deb for links web browser... and "links" is a TERRIBLE search engine term.  any help?19:46
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minradoes nokia show any interest in integrating your contributions into the stock distro?20:00
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minraoh oh oh i got a question.  can i backup and restore the builtin flash with dd ?20:01
minrai mean, theres no alternate boot device afaik.  if i hose the root fs, i have to send it in.20:02
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sxperttigert, ok.20:07
tigertminra: you can reflash it yourself20:09
sxperttigert, I'm looking into creating maemo-surveyor :D20:10
sxpertwhich would be similar to those trimble windows CE based surveying tools20:10
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minraok ctorrent kills my 77020:15
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minrahi _Handful'20:17
_Handful_hi minra20:17
minrai am still learning what not to do with the 77020:18
minractorrent is definitely out20:19
|tbb|dont take a shower with him20:19
_Handful_what have you been doing with it that had negative consequenses?20:19
minrai just got the screen to draw really strange horizontal noise pixels.  never seen anything like it... might have been low battery20:20
minrabtw i was online with bluetooth keyboard for six hours before i needed to plug it in...20:21
minrathat is way over spec.20:21
minralow brightness20:21
|tbb|minra which bt keyboard do you own?20:22
_Handful_very nice20:22
_Handful_today I will run some battery tests with regular audio player and canola player20:22
minrathinkoutside stowaway20:22
_Handful_I'm just looking for the newest 770 here20:22
_Handful_2 of them actually20:22
minraall new keyboard layouts are painful, but i am managing quite well with this one.  the tactile response is great.20:23
minrabuild precision is a bit low, but it hasnt broken yet and i am getting about 5 days from 2x AAAs20:24
_Handful_better than the ones I've tested20:24
minrai couldnt imagine using a 770 without a keyboard20:25
minramight be fun to get synergy working, to run kbd/mouse from a pc20:26
|tbb|port it minra port it :)20:26
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GreySimCan you use a mouse with the 770? I mean, even synergy aside (though I <3 synergy), could you use, say, a bluetooth mouse?20:30
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minraam i the only person here who sees 4 minute lags on freenode?20:32
tigertI found one issue since installing canola20:33
tigertthe daemon seems to take just enough memory,20:33
tigertthat it prevents me from unmounting the memory card (swap on mmc enabled)20:33
tigertand since there seems to be no way to stop the background process, it's a tad annoying :)20:34
robtaylorwhat is canola?20:35
roopethanks tigert for the template. i'll try something out with it soon. A white text-dark-bg skin.20:37
roopesoon = next week. :)20:37
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|tbb|do you all have also the problem not to configure canola while you are not connected to the internet?20:44
minrai will never understand amarok / canola type people :)20:47
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keesjminra, syngery works on the 770.20:55
tko_maybe I'm forgetting what amarok looks like, but for me comparing canola to amarok seems weird20:55
keesjand what keyboard do you use?20:55
|tbb|keesj, was this a question?20:55
|tbb|the first one20:56
keesj|tbb|, no it's a fact  ,synergy run on the 77020:56
|tbb|do u have a deb file for me?20:57
minrakeesj deb deb deb?20:57
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keesjI have a deb here , perhaps it's a it2005 release21:02
keesjI will recompile it21:03
|tbb|why there is no entry on maemoapplication list till now?21:06
keesjI don't know , when i started playing with it there was a running project21:09
keesjI wanted to add a software mouse so i createda package two21:10
ssvbare there any news about a better application catalog?21:10
keesjI don't see a very good solution ,21:11
keesjI know debian used to build the package themselves for the 3rd parties but stopped21:11
keesjand as a user I don't want to create packages for different versions21:12
minraseems many people do a port and then leave it without registering the work to the world21:13
ssvbyes, i think it is partially solved by garage now21:13
ssvbat least if the work is uploaded there, it will not be completely lost21:14
ssvbnow from the user perspective, a convenient application catalog would be a good idea21:14
ssvb looks nice, but it is not much used21:14
keesjthat's 3rd party21:15
keesjbut it does look nice21:16
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keesji don't even run debian , I don't think I can upload packages21:18
ssvbalso it would be good to have some place for application porting requests, so that users might vote for their favourite applications and developers could see what it needed21:18
ssvba few weeks ago i have seen a user who was happy with his Nokia 770 but was missing 'whois' package (he could not find it)21:18
ssvbcompiling a package for him was a matter of just a few minutes21:18
ssvbmaybe there are lots of users with similar problems which are easily fixable21:18
ssvbkeesj, at least you can build .deb files in scratchbox and upload them somewhere21:19
|tbb|yeah macchanger21:19
|tbb|i would like to have it21:19
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keesjuploading right now21:20
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|tbb|how to look at the source code of a site with the n770?21:21
rev|tbb|: use wget?21:21
revor telnet?21:21
|tbb|i need to get an url out of the embedded video21:21
revget wget or something21:21
revand use that21:21
revthen open up the downloaded html file21:21
|tbb|wget then the site after open the html site? no easier way?21:22
ssvb|tbb|: what kind of embedded video are you trying to get?21:22
|tbb|its a wmv21:22
ssvbthere are existing scripts for yourube for example,
ssvbit works on nokia 770 :)21:23
|tbb| i have a few other site not youtube21:23
tigertthere was the 770-encoder web interface21:24
tigertthat, while it takes a moment to do it, accepts a youtube url and spits out a .avi21:24
tigertthat the video player can play21:24
|tbb|i know do something like that21:24
|tbb|rev what you mean with telnet?21:25
rev|tbb|: you can telnet to port 80, and say GET /videos/whatever.php?v=1241921:25
rev|tbb|: then it'll spit the HTML at you21:26
rev|tbb|: but that wouldn't be convenient for what you are descriing21:26
rev|tbb|: also, i'm sure there are webpages that would do this for you- an HTML validator or pretty printer would... something where you'd paste the URL into a box, hit go and then see the source. that'd be less of a pain than using wget and editting it21:26
|tbb|hmmh good idea html validator21:27
keesjnot tested yet
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revalso |tbb|21:30
revwith a little javascript and one of these html validators, you could write a handy bookmarklet21:31
revthat'd be slick21:31
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revhere we go21:32
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jsunhi -21:32
jsundoes anybody know why I can't find Xephyr after installing 2.1 SDK?21:33
jsunthe tutorial says xephyr is pre-installed..21:33
keesjexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${prefix}/lib; export LD_LIBRARY_PATH21:33
keesjexec ${prefix}/bin/Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac21:33
jsunkeesj, the script complains about not finding xephyr. :)21:34
minrahooray for keesj... i will download and test21:34
keesjminra, I has worked in the past, I gui would be nice21:34
jsunfwiw, I tried twice just to make sure I did not do anything wrong. :)21:35
jsunbtw, am I the first one to discover this? :)21:37
* jsun feels deeply hornored....21:37
keesjjsun perhaps you did not start the scratchbox21:37
jsunkeesj, I did!21:37
keesjand /scratchbox/login works?21:38
jsunthe host is FC5 (with vdso disabled, obviously).21:38
jsunI looked the output very carefully.  did not see any error report.21:38
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keesjminra, I just tested , there are two problems21:40
jsunin 2.1 SDK, there are two packages: rootstrap and rootfs.21:40
jsunwhen am I supposed to use rootfs package?21:41
jsunthe tutorial only talks about extracting from rootstrap.21:41
jtradoes anybody know where to get or has a source for osso-xterm 0.13 ? I can only find source for 0.11 on
jtraI want to implement a sane virtual keyboard for it21:41
keesjfirst you need to install in command line because the deb doesn't contain the right section, secondly of course you dont' see the mouse21:41
jtrathe normal one is not very suitable for using modifiers21:42
keesjbut it works21:43
jtraetrunko: thanks21:44
etrunkojtra: apt-get source is your friend ;)21:44
jtrabut that would require to have proroper deb-src option in sources.list which I don't have :-(21:45
etrunkojtra: ah, ok21:46
jtraand I was also confused because I expected the source archive to be in the same pool directory as .debs are, like in debian21:48
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humehi...i have a problem with the memory card in my nokia 770 - i cannot empty the trash bin (device usb connected to linux laptop)21:50
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tko_hmm, I'd join the amd64 desktop raffle here if it weren't for getting it home in one piece22:17
Takmail it? ;-)22:17
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keesjdoes my Package.gz file need to contain the Section element?22:24
keesjif I have my own repository22:24
tko_keesj, IIRC application installer displays only packages in user/* sections22:25
keesjyes, but dpkg-scanpackages doesn't add the Section in the Package.gz22:26
tko_strange.. is the Section: in debian/control for the Source: or Package: section ?22:27
tko_you might want to try apt-ftparchive too22:28
keesjfor Source22:28
tko_does it show if you do 'less package.deb' ? (dpkg -c package.deb or something I think)22:30
keesjno it is not in the package22:30
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tko_ok then dpkg-scanpackages can't find it. apparently it's not inherited for binary packages and needs to be declared for all Package: sections22:31
tko_I'm sure it's explained in some tutorial or the very least in debian packaging guides22:31
keesjI just tried that22:31
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keesj /me wrong,when I don't use an override file it works22:39
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dot_janyone know of a lumines clone for the 770?23:03
_Handful_no :/23:03
pokute_I know that this is old, but
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MDKhmm, sardine seems not to rebuild packages23:10
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|tbb|anybody using bloglines?23:36
|tbb|is it worth to install and if so where to get the latest version?23:36
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jobidpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.0.14osso1_armel.deb (--unpack):23:53
jobi subprocess pre-installation script killed by signal (Segmentation fault), core dumped23:54
jobidoes it ring any bell?23:54
MDKhah, had similiar prob i think23:56
MDKwhile trying to update some stuff via application manager23:57
jobiI was finally attempting a sardine update on my personal 770 :)23:57
MDKsame thing here23:58

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