IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2006-11-13

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JaffaMorning, all10:57
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AD-N770good morning11:21
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florian_kcgood morning11:52
_follower_it must be that time of night again... :-)11:53
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dwdMorning all&(~_follower_), evening _follower_11:59
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inz*sniff* foo. is goneth from =(12:44
bergieinz: :-)12:45
bergiebut don't worry, we have bunch of other exciting content on the way ;-)12:45
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tigertbergie: which room are you in currently?13:06
tigertI'll join you in a bit13:06
bergietigert: B20913:14
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JaffaSo, anyone experimented with compiling Java ME or SE for Maemo yet, given it's shiny new GPL status?13:59
JaffaAh, not sure you can actually get code yet14:00
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partJaffa: nice...15:05
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booiiingJaffa: complete code-release will take until march 2007, according to /.15:32
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Jaffabooiiing: most interesting bits are going to be available sooner (e.g. the Java ME stack)15:53
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hugo__i have a problem when i would like to start  emulator in scratchbox with this command : start16:51
hugo__/usr/bin/dbus-daemon-1: error while loading shared libraries: cannot handle TLS data16:51
bergieComments welcome:
JaffaWhy does it have "10 Desktop Environment" in the title?17:03
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_follower__bergie: classy :-)17:03
_follower__(except for the URLs...)17:03
Jaffabergie: looks *really* nice.17:04
JaffaGood do with some vertical separation between the entries?17:04
bergie_follower_: yeah, the URLs are a bit crappy as the component used there was planned for handling hundreds of thousands of products (that don't necessarily have URL-capable names)17:05
spaetzAFKbergie, looks fantastic, but there is no information in which repositories the apps can be found17:05
bergiebut I could maybe get it to use the applications' UNIX names for URLs17:05
bergiespaetzAFK: not needed, the .install files contain the info17:05
spaetzAFKI'd rather install from repositories than "install now" links, so I'll get notified of updates17:05
spaetzAFKahh, ok then :-)17:05
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_follower__bergie: having "nice" URLs makes it heaps easier to link to things from "outside" e.g. blogs etc17:06
bergie_follower_: true17:07
Jaffabergie: might still be worth having the textual information on the detailed page.17:07
* Jaffa quite fancies a subtle highlighting hover image on the "click to install"17:07
inzbergie, I'd suggest numeric sorting on the apllications/ page =)17:07
spaetzPlus I'd like to have an "Show all Applications" rather than having to click on 15 different categories to view them17:08
bergieJaffa: the problem is application catalog doesn't know the repo... the info is just in the file17:08
spaetzinz, you were 5 seconds faster than I were :-)17:08
spaetzJust wanted to nag about the sorting :-)17:08
Jaffabergie: get it to parse the file? (granted, this is an ugly hack)17:08
spaetzbergie, that is a defficiency of the application database then :-)17:09
JaffaHaving the DB generate the file would be much more user friendly for the project admin17:09
bergiespaetz: it was intentional design to use the .install files17:09
spaetzbergie: I'm not complaining about install files: I'd just like to be able to present the information in these files on the site as well17:10
spaetzSo I could e.g. se immediately if I already have that reository in my list etc17:10
spaetzsorry, for the typos17:11
bergiespaetz: I think it doesn't hurt to click the .install again... if app manager is smart it won't re-add the repo17:11
bergie...but just start the install process17:11
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spaetzbergie: BTW Terms of use Privacy Policy at the header looks like it were just one link in my Opera. Probably some spacing would be nice (just a nitpick, I'll shut up now :-))17:16
spaetz*at the footer*, not the header (me needs coffee)17:16
* bergie points at tigert... we still need to style the footer17:17
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bergieBTW, here's some info on .install:
keesjyea, I think there are really security issues with the one click install17:38
keesjI know it's a debian problem but it just should not be possible to override default respositories17:39
keesjI think it would even be better to just have one repository and give everybody upload rights17:40
keesjat least that repository will not contain fake packages17:40
JaffaThere is that, no-one seems to be using it (for whatever reason)17:40
JaffaI don't think it's been made clear that you don't need to host your package at the Garage to get the repo upload capability.17:41
keesjwhy are you saying that there is that?17:41
Jaffa"one repository and give everybody upload rights".17:41
JaffaIt exists.17:41
keesjin the garage17:41
JaffaIntroduced alongside the Garage, but separate.17:41
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keesjfor me it's simple. while I am prepared to spend some time learning the system17:42
keesjbut not everybody can be a full debian developer.17:43
partmaemo is not debian17:43
keesjthe packaging system is.17:43
partyou don't need to be a debian developer in order to upload packages to extras17:43
partthe packaging system doesn't require you to be a debian developer either17:44
keesjyou need to create a debian package17:44
JaffaAnd building a deb, even without a deb-based system, is trivial.17:44
Jaffakontorri does it in Java in ThemeMaker, after all.17:44
dwdJaffa: I can upload my own packages? There a HOWTO page on that? (I made myself a repo for my stuff and the stuff it needs, but it's on my DSL)17:44
Jaffadwd: yes and yes17:44
dwdJaffa: And _follower_'s stuff does it in Python, too.17:44
Jaffadwd: indeed.17:45
keesjJaffa, and the other thing is that I don't know what I am allowed to upload17:45
partdwd: I think you need to create a garage project and have a usable gpg (pgp) key17:45
keesjJaffa, does the ThemeMake does the gpg stuff to?17:45
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JaffaThat talks about a) how to do it (dwd), and b) what you can do (keesj)17:46
Veggendwd: Take a look at Eclipse and the Laika plugin. It wasn't bad at all - though some of the examples/templates could use a little brushing up to be more IT2006ized.17:46
partyeah, everything in extras (and in garage) has to be free in the freedom sense17:46
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dwdJaffa: Ta, yerrastar.17:47
keesjJaffa, so I just need to try to upload ruby and such and see what happens?17:48
Jaffakeesj: There are QA standards, and a "trustworthiness" threshold on the part of the maintainer.17:48
keesjJaffa, still it feels like a lot of work, and I did not find examples or a build system for all that17:56
keesjbut I am in here for the fun of it, so I don't really mind:)17:57
JaffaWell, if you want one repo containing quality stuff without security risks, it's going to have some level of pain. If you want it to be easy, it becomes a free for all; but then you were moaning about that too ;-)17:57
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keesjI just think I could be done more easyer and more secure17:59
JaffaEasier yes, I'm not sure about the secure.17:59
JaffaWell, maybe 0install.17:59
keesjI would do something like the bsd ports ,17:59
keesjso that users like me can contribute parts of the ports tree18:00
Jaffakeesj: how is that easier or more secure? (I've not played with it a lot)18:00
keesjand maemo would do the building18:00
JaffaSo you want an auto-builder?18:00
Veggen...a compiler on my Nokia 770? I think not!18:00
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keesjnot on the 770 :)18:01
Jaffakeesj: unfortunately I've done no work on mud-builder18:01
keesjNow there also are so much package with no cvs or no source18:02
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keesjbut is mud and existing thing?18:03
keesjbut it sounds right.18:03
Jaffakeesj: no, doesn't exist yet. It'd probably be a simple Perl framework for building stuff by modules. The easiest module would be "Debian" which goes off to Debian and builds a deb from there, patching it if appropriate, and producing a 770-compatible deb.18:05
JaffaMore info here:
keesjyes , this is what I am talking about.18:07
keesjbut debian also has the source packages and diff's and .orig files18:08
keesjso perhaps it's just me who doesn't understand who it works :)18:08
Jaffakeesj: yeah, but that's all abstracted away behind dpkg-buildpackage18:09
JaffaAll MUD would have to do is download some files, patch them with Maemo-patches (if any) and then call dpkg-buildpackage18:09
keesjYes, for me even a little more, I should help in creating patches18:11
keesjso I would tell mud that I am going to build a package for let say ruby18:11
_follower__different-topic: am i correct in thinking there's no easy way to rotate GTK widgets that don't accept an 'angle' property? specifically, i'm wanting to rotate treeview18:12
keesjmud downloads , unpacks, I poke around and change some configure options or some flags, add mud creates a diff betwee my files and the package18:12
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Jaffakeesj: yeah, and then those patches and flags (i.e. how to build Ruby for Maemo) are put into a MUD-config file for Ruby, you submit that to the mud project and then the mud project will handle the building of the deb for you.18:18
Jaffa(and submitting it to extras etc.)18:18
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partJaffa: I've been thinking about a debian auto-builder for garage/extras18:23
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Darknesssinteresting news:18:32
Darknesss[17:20:18] <lupus> I committed most of the needed changes last friday18:32
Darknesss[17:20:33] <lupus> there are still a few bits that I plan to do this week18:32
Darknessshe is talking about the mono updates needed for os200618:32
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bergieURLs should be nicer now...
_follower__aww, purdy...18:55
_follower__but, that's just for the categories?18:55
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Jaffapart: cool, well I've got a project with no code in it ;-)19:00
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Jaffa_follower__: nope, works19:00
partJaffa: that's always nice19:00
_follower__but not in the links from ?19:01
_follower__but other than that, looks nice. will there be a link for feedbak or a forum?19:02
_follower__or rating or something like that.19:02
_follower__(watch out for the fallling feature creep... :-) )19:02
bergiewe thought about ratings but decided to skip them from this stage19:06
Darknessshmm, new layout is not bad :)19:06
bergiestill quite a bit of stuff to do19:07
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bergietigert was designing the front page today19:07
_follower__bergie: understandable :-)19:07
bergiebut in any case I believe the new site will be much nicer than the old one19:08
_follower__being able to link directly will be a big plus too. thumbs up :-)19:09
DanielCDoes anyone know what browser is shipped with the Nokia 770? Firefox? I have a XUL app that I'd love to get working on the Nokia 770, and it could run on top of Firefox.19:10
bergiewe'll try to import the Maemo wiki contents to the site tomorrow... old static stuff from Forrest XML files is already in on the staging side19:10
bergieDanielC: Opera19:10
DanielCIs there a Nokia 770 virtual environment that you can run on an x86 Linux? I'd like to get an Opera-based version of my program (an OpenDocument viewer).19:12
part_follower__: I think I already suggested some sort of rating earlier19:12
DanielCI mean, I would try to get it working with Opera...19:12
partDanielC: there's scratchbox, but opera isn't available for that19:13
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_follower__part: yeah, i seem to recall that19:13
_follower__DanielC: you might wanna try minimo?19:13
_follower__no idea if it has xul tho19:13
DanielC_follower__: What is minimo? Got a link?19:13
Darknessswhich cms is being used?19:14
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_follower__bergie: thanks :-)19:14
Darknesssah, migard19:14
bergieDarknesss: Midgard... see
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_follower__i couldn't get it working when i last tried... something to do with the repo setup. but others seem to.19:14
DanielCminimo sounds good. It might work.19:15
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_follower__what's the quickest way to play an mp3 file from the command line?19:25
_follower__sorry, i should add "that's installed on the 770 by default" :-)19:26
_follower__(or, i'll also take answers involving python)19:26
JaffaYou can do it if gst-tools is installed, though it's not by default19:27
_follower__hmmm, yeah, i think i installed that..19:28
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_follower__Jaffa:  thanks for the suggestion, i think i'm going to see if i can do it easily in python, seeing as that's what i want to do eventually anyway...19:31
VRedf -h19:32
VReups =)19:32
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nelsonIs it just me, or does sdptool browse $MAC only work once?20:46
nelsonand thereafter generating "No route to host" errors?20:46
nelsonSame thing for "cat /dev/rfcomm0" where rfcomm0 is bound to my GPS receiver.  Works fine once, but after that I need to hcitool hci0 reset20:47
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spaetz â€/win baÃl20:59
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* sp3000 checks the calendar for international oops day21:05
* sp3000 started his international oops day by waking up to the sound of water dripping from the upstairs apt. oops!21:05
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keesjnelson, bluetooth support was greatly improved in the latest it2006 release. what version are you using?21:28
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nelsonkeesj: the latest.22:17
nelsonkeesj: and yes, I agree with you that it was greatly improved.22:17
keesjnelson, from a few weeks ago?22:17
nelsonyes, that one.22:18
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* bergie just updated to the lastest it2006 image... makes me wish application catalog already had the .install files now that I need to reinstall all apps ;-)22:18
keesjI really did not have any problems , but I haven't hooked my bluetooth keyboard yet, the gps with mapper works like a charm22:18
keesjbergie, I don't know , what happens if you installed maemo-mapper from a .deb file22:19
keesjand after that the repository where mapper lives is in you sources.list?22:19
bergiekeesj: I think you can just start upgrading it via application manager then22:20
nelsonkeesj: have you done any command-line operations?22:24
keesjnelson, no , I can test if you want22:25
nelsonmakes me wonder if I've done something to screw up the bluetooth system.22:29
keesjdo you use a keyboard or something else then the gps?22:34
nelsonI have a gps receiver and keyboard.22:37
nelsonBut .... the sdptool browse problem occurs with either or both.22:38
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Mooxhi there. Does scheduleword works with gpe under maemo it2006 ?23:42
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