IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2006-11-07

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kakosWould it be possible to run Celestia on the Nokia 770?02:21
nomiskakos: I'd consider this unlikely.02:32
nomisNot that I really know celestia, but it looks very 3D-heavy.02:32
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kakosnomis: Do you know of any planetarium software that might run on the 770?02:45
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nomiskakos: nope, sorry.02:59
nomisI vaguely remember someone mentioning something,  but I forgot the details.02:59
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kakosnomis: Okay.  Thanks.  :)03:04
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Takhas anybody built a recentish package of dates from svn trunk?08:19
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AD-N770good morning10:57
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florian_kcgood morning12:54
konttorinot much happening today I see13:00
* konttori just updated theme maker and media converter pages to be more opera friendly.13:01
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inzhow i wish my laptop was still working...13:09
inzlectures would be so much more productive13:09
inz770 isn't too well suited for coding.13:10
inzjust got an idea, replicating the thumb kb as a text editor might work...13:11
inzwhen coding, context is way important; as is writing speed...13:12
inzwith a smallish font, it might be usable.13:12
inzobviously the kb could be optimized for coding.13:13
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bedboihi there13:25
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konttoritigert: how's the theme coming along?13:25
* konttori also update theme maker themes list.13:26
konttoriAm I missing any themes at the moment?13:26
tigertkonttori: I need to again get the latest templates13:28
* koen wonders what idiot designed the charger13:28
koenthe pull protection is too rigid13:28
konttoritigert: how so?13:28
tigertits insane how things can be slow even inside here13:28
tigertkonttori: the thing is13:28
tigertthe theme template I have is for sardine13:29
tigertie. for the latest stuff in svn13:29
tigertthe 770 theme is not the same13:29
konttorioh. How much different is it?13:29
tigertand they have it there, and I'd rather get that one than do the diff myself :P13:29
tigertnot very much13:29
tigertand I am sorta wondering if I should just go ahead and change it myself13:29
konttoriOk. So, is the image different or just the gtkrc part?13:29
tigertkonttori: I think both13:30
konttoritigert: ok13:30
tigertsigh :P13:30
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tigertbut I am trying13:31
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konttoriBut are the sardine themes compatible with 2006 image?13:31
tigertnot quite13:31
tigertI think there are some problems, not very big ones though13:31
konttoriI mean, if they are, then does it really matter if it's not the 2006 proper?13:31
konttoriOk. I'll just take your word for it13:32
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tigertwell, you can compare14:10
tigertand see14:11
tigert but at least the theme I have breaks on the stock 770 software. not much, but a bit14:11
tigertbut I'll try to get the real template14:11
tigertwe need to start using those internally too with our new theme tool14:11
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timelesshello tigert14:16
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keesjThere was somebody trying to run maemo inside a "simple" chroot14:28
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keesjwhould that make bt development easyer?14:29
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timelessi don't understand how a simple chroot would help anything, but maybe i'm just being silly14:33
keesjperhaps I am asking the wrong question then:). should bleutooth work inside scrtachbox14:34
parttimeless: it would be more simple and easier to set up14:34
partkeesj: there's no guarantee that there's bluetooth on the host system, I don't think scratchbox even tries to wrap around it14:35
keesjany idea onto how people develop bt applications like the bt plugin?14:36
partrun it on the device14:38
inzi mostly develop any code possible outside sbox14:38
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keesjinz that is also the aproach I was am following14:39
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_follower_quiet here today...16:16
keesj_follower_, oke , tell me about gtk layout managers then16:24
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keesjI really like to see that the software is getting better. maemo-mapper now works great16:27
timelessthat reminds me, it's time for me to see how many new projects have arrived in garage since the last time i indexed it16:30
timelesshttp://swift/world/source/maemo/garage for people who can reach it :)16:30
timelesshey, get someone to donate a 100g hard drive to, and i can see about adding garage to mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org16:31
_follower_keesj: what i know about gtk layout managers could fill...16:38 extremely small space. :-)16:38
keesjthats just the amount of free memory i currently have available16:42
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_follower_keesj: maybe you should start by forgetting your childhood?16:43
shaprtimeless: swift isn't a real name?16:43
_follower_...oh, you meant on your 770... :-D16:44
keesj_follower_, it's all the slashdot,freshmeat,buzzwords and java that fills it up16:45
timelessit's a real hostname16:45
timelessbut it has nothing to do with my realname, it does relate to my irc nick16:46
timelessand the naming convention i use for devices i control16:46
timelessit's actually such a stretch that i doubt many people will catch it. it's a reference to a hardy boys/tom swift book16:49
_follower_ah, the memory of when you first realised all hardy books had the same plot... :-)16:50
timelessi'm actually having a really hard time using google to find that book :(16:51
timelessactually, no, i just mistook the right answer for the wrong one16:51
timelessdoh :)16:51
_follower_well, of course, you should have called frank and joe...16:51
_follower_and was it chet and his jalopy?16:51
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timelesssounds right. 'course chet's sister gets killed in one series16:52
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_follower_what sort of name is chet anyway?16:52
timelessrandom american, i believe it's a short form of something16:53
timelesspossibly a shortened form of chester?16:53
timelessok, the reference btw is to a book called 'time bomb'16:54
timelessat least, i think it is, we're talking about well over a decade of irrelevance :)16:54
_follower_perhaps, so, although chester would still be considered odd in this part of the world--but wouldn't provide as much amusement as randy.16:55
timelessanyway, my cell phones have been named things like SELMA and MPP16:56
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timelessanyway, my cell phones have been named things like SELMA and MPPT16:56
timelessand i've had computers named doppler and raistlin and tardis16:57
timelessso i had kinda run out of easy to think of names for devices, i can't remember if my 770 was st voyager, but it might have been...16:58
timelessso do the other references make sense? :)16:58
_follower_i've always gone with the more functional "TheComputer", "AnotherComputer" and "The770" :-)16:59
_follower_timeless: not obviously so...16:59
timelesswhich ones do you not recognize? :)17:00
_follower_that would reveal way too much of my ignorance :-)17:00
timelessyou could google first :)17:00
timelessi don't work for google, nor am i currently in mountain view, so i can't watch your search :)17:01
_follower_i *could*...17:06
Takyou could be piggybacking an intermediate line17:06
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Takrev: I have a test package if you'd like to try17:13
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revTak: really? awesome!17:13
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revhave you ever heard of a game called Advance Wars? That is the game I'm planning on playing- it is one of the few games that'll play well on the Nokia 770, at least as far as an ergonomic perspective17:15
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Takno, but I'll check it out17:15
Takthe package is like 280k - is there somewhere I can mail it?17:16
revyeah- areichow at gmail dizzot com17:17
revthat''d be just peachy17:17
revi can mail you back the game17:17
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waiteHey all. Has anyone configured the 770 in USB Host mode?17:25
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inztigert, new maemo-blog in repo17:30
inztigert, news: 1) it works, 2) image loading through gnome-vfs supported17:31
waiteI am confused why you need a 3 headed cable as explained at
waiteI know I need to feed power to the 770 but could I not do it with a dbl headed cable?17:39
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jobihey tigert18:02
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bedboianyone knows if glib is portable to symbian20:11
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Tak<question type="repetitive"> Has anybody managed to make a working build of dates from svn trunk?  </question>20:16
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Takthey have the "december" bug fixed in svn, but I can't make a build that works on my nokia20:19
bedboiTak: some months ago20:19
Takdo you have a link?  or can you send it to me?20:20
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bedboilet me see if i still have something in my scratchbox20:23
bedboinope, bad luck20:24
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bedboiyou should ask the main author (chris lord)20:24
Takdid you do anything special besides install the ecal libs from opened-hand ?20:24
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bedboii really don't remember20:37
bedboiit was a lot of time ago20:37
Takoh well20:37
bedboii'm sorry i can't help you further :(20:38
Takc'est la vie20:38
TakI suspect it's something with the GtkDatesView, because it loads the calendar, and just before it displays, it segfaults with a failed GtkIsWidget assertion20:41
shaprwaite: USB host mode on the 770 can be set with the flasher tool20:44
shaprwaite: sofia-sip works on the 770, it's a command line tool.20:44
waiteshapr you are my idol :)20:44
shaprAny other questions I haven't seen?20:45
waiteso I see the circuit for USB host mode now and understand it20:45
Takso...usb host mode does or does not require hardware/cable manglement?20:45
shaprNo, just use the flasher tool to tell the 770 to be the host.20:45
glassyou still need the 5v to the cable hack though, right?20:45
waitetak, I believe that you still need 5V back to 770 for the USB device to come up right?20:45
Takthat's my question20:45
shaprIf you have a powered USB hub, you won't need that, right?20:46
waiteshapr, does using flasher to just enable host mode wpie the image?20:46
waiteshapr, I think you ned to supply 5V to the USB device. It is not internally powered20:46
Takso, powered usb hub + flasher = host mode20:47
shaprI think so.20:47
waiteFrom all I read you do need the cable hack20:47
shaprI've never tried it myself, just read that in various places.20:47
TakI'll have to try20:47
waitebut I could be very wrong20:47
Takassuming I can find the adapter for one of my hubs20:47
shaprIf you have a powered hub, it's easy to check.20:47
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waiteso does flasher always need an image also or does enable-host-mode just set the bits needed?20:48
shaprYou don't need to give it an image param, just the right command line params.20:48
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waitegood deal. Now if only I had a MiniB-MiniB cable at the office20:49
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waiteif sofia-sip is from Mokia, why don't we have a Hildonized version? :)20:50
waitesofia-sip has a gaim plugin also.20:53
waiteis it worth upgrading to the IT2006 Update version 2.2006.39-14 ?20:55
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timelessthere are a limited number of fixes20:56
timelessbut i don't know of any major regressions from it200620:56
timelessi do know of one major regression from it2005 to it200620:57
timelessbut that's a personal opinion (and it's reported in the public mameo bugzilla)20:57
* timeless wants to be able to read pdfs from google :(20:57
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mlpugwhat it means exactly to run a command inside scratchbox or outside scratchbox? I can run e.g. a script under /scratchbox/... directory inside or outside scratchbox or is it always inside if it is under /scratchbox directory21:17
revTak: you there?21:17
waitetimeless, thanks sounds like it is worth skipping for the time being21:19
timelessif you have 2006 already, it's probably worth it, i switched to that build so that i can get support when things break21:21
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timelessi was using about 2006 before and everyone ignored me :(21:21
mlpugbut not the opposite. if i am inside scratchbox I cant run script in my /home/mlpug directory as i am chrooted to scratchbox, right?21:21
timelessif you're in the scratchbox21:22
timelessthen /scratchbox is not a path you see21:22
timelessif you're outside the scratchbox, then such a path exists, but you're generally not supposed to use it21:22
timelessnote that the scratchbox /generally/ includes some junctions of sorts21:22
timelessso that you can share between your normall system and your scratchbox21:22
timelesssee the links directory maze i suppose21:23
waiteshapr, does sofia-sip let you make outgoing calls to lanlines if your service allows?21:23
Takrev: eh?21:25
revTak: thanks for trying, but the package doesn't seem to work21:25
revTak: though i need to try it with another image21:26
rever another ROM21:26
Takok - I'll do some testing with your rom when I get a chance21:26
revit made my nokia reboot21:26
Takmaybe OOM?21:26
revhrmm maybe21:26
revbut i don't think so ...21:26
timelessrev: do you have /media/mmc1/core-dumps ? :)21:26
Takare you using the mmc for swap?21:26
revi mean, i've a 64 MB MMC swap file, and i didn't have anything else running but x terminal21:27
revtimeless: if it's there, yeah. i didn't delete it21:27
timelessyou have to create it21:27
timelessmmcs don't ship w/ random directories on them :)21:27
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revohhh haha21:27
timelessas long as your mmc is fairly large (i started w/ 512mb) i'd suggest having such a folder21:28
revi thought it was a file/folder created when something like that happened21:28
revif it's created, does it automatically get utilized?21:28
revyeah, i've a 1 GB RS-MMC ... $24 on amazon21:28
timelessat least in theory if you get a core dump in that directory for 2006 or 2006.1 (whatever it's called)21:28
timelesshrm, i hink my 1g's cost more21:28
timelessgood thing i didn't care :)21:28
timelessanyway, if you have xterminal, you can:21:29
timelesscat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern21:29
* timeless hopes that's spelled correctly21:29
timelessi don't claim to memorize such things21:29
timelesspersonally on most systems i tend to replace defaults for such things21:29
* timeless prefers core patterns w/ more variables21:30
timelessanyway, google for that path and you can learn about which vars are available if you care21:30
timelessthe main point is that if something crashes, and the system isn't entirely hosed21:30
revawesome, thanks timeless21:30
timelessyou should get a file (probably two actually) in that directory21:30
revgood to know21:30
timelessnow, i have no idea how you are supposed to get that to nokia21:30
timelesspresumably you file a bug in the public bugzilla and say "i have a core file, if you want it, tell me how to get it to you"21:31
timelessbut please don't assume this is official advice21:31
* timeless doesn't understand nokia's bugzilla21:31
timelessanyway, traditionally there's a syslog file and maybe a syslog.old (dunno, i don't pay much attn)21:32
timelessif there's an .old and your device rebooted, you probably want to copy that somewhere so you can make it available when you file a bug21:33
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timelessat least, when i've worked on other projects, the things i've always wanted are core dumps for symboled builds and logs from the system explaining what happened21:33
timelessi can't imagine nokia is differrent21:33
timelessbut i'm speaking as a random developer :)21:33
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timelessso what is this rom thing anyway? :)21:35
Takit's ok, it doesn't have to goto nokia21:38
Takit goes to me :-)21:38
timelessthat doesn't mean anything to me :)21:39
* mgedmin reads irc logs and discovers the trick with /media/mmc1/core-dumps21:41
timelessthe more useful version of the trick is /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern21:41
timelesssince you can use it on virtually any linux kernel for the past couple of years21:41
timelessnot just nokias :)21:41
timelessdo try to keep in mind how much free space you have21:42
timelessi've had cores that were 200-400m large21:42
timeless(don't ask how, i never figured that out)21:42
timelessso you can easily run out of space if you have say a 1/2 gb mmc :(21:42
mgedmin400m core file on the nokia 770???21:43
timelessyeah well21:44
timelessi break anything and everything i touch21:44
timelessi killed a samsung q1 for kicks :)21:44
timelessin <5mins iirc21:44
mgedminI try to be careful, but my usage is sometimes indistinguishable from stress-testing21:44
timelessthe q1 was death by stress testing21:45
* timeless has a nice 90mb minidump from it21:45
timelessfwiw, the 770 actually survived that stress test21:45
timelesswhich is pretty impressive since on average most cell phones and the q1 die when given the pages i used :)21:46
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timelessswift% plocate va_start21:53
* rev is pretty surprised how well the 770's CPU performs21:56
Takyeah - my 770 is basically as powerful as the laptop I bought for $2000 in 199721:56
timelessi got a p2/450 in 1998, what was your laptop in 199721:57
timelessp2 200 or so?21:57
Takamd k6-2/40021:57
* mgedmin 's 770 is more powerful than his first thinkpad laptop, made in 1995, bought second-hand in 2000 for $50021:58
suihkulokkias long as you don't try to use floating points :)21:59
revthe TI OMAP must be more powerful per-mhz than the XScale, PXA255 and PXA27021:59
revor so it seems21:59
revi've used 206 MHz StrongARM machines running CE and Linux, and with the application i use most there is a really big difference in speed21:59
revspecifically i mean a programming langugae/operating environment/dev system called squeak22:00
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revand it seems to be getting better bytecodes/sec/MHz and message sends/sec/MHz than a 377 MHz UltraSPARC running linux22:01
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ssvbrev: regarding cpu performance,
revthanks, ssvb23:06
ssvbwell, i just did this research some time ago (when evaluating the ways for improving video decoding performance using assembly), so i decided to share the information now :)23:08
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