IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2006-10-26

keesj(just looking a what squeak is)00:00
revahhh ok00:00
revi thought wxWidgets had been ported already... at least somewhat00:00
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revkeesj: ruby is based on smalltalk00:01
keesjthere is an "hildon" flag to wxWidgets00:01
revkeesj: as the author of ruby says/used to say- ruby = (smalltalk + perl) / 200:01
revkeesj: ruby is basically Smalltalk with some perl syntax tossed in, perlish regex for instance00:01
keesjrev, I do know smalltalk a bit00:02
revkeesj: ah, neat00:02
keesjbut smalltalk doesn't work with files right?00:02
revkeesj: squeak is an open source smalltalk dialect created by some of the original creaters of smalltalk00:02
revkeesj: can't work with them?00:02
revkeesj:  some- not all- smalltalks implementations work on an image model rather than having a tree of files00:03
keesjrev, thats what I was talking about.00:03
revkeesj: though there are other smalltalks which use a more 1950's system like ruby, perl, python do ... GST has a fair bit of support for it, among others00:03
keesjI also rember using a smalltalk to java generator, to express different OO patterns00:04
revkeesj: but Squeak is an image-based system, though there is support for modules that come in as files and it is easy to load or export code as files00:04
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keesjrev about the keyboard stuff , do you want to simulate input or get input from the user?00:09
revkeesj: get it from the user00:10
revkeesj: i ported Squeak to the 770, which is X11 obviously but it doesn't use GTK... and i want to be able to type into it00:11
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keesjit's a nice problem , since for example I sometimes just use keyboard or synergy to interact with the 77000:12
keesjSo I guess your app must "request" keyboard input00:13
revtko was telling me that unless a widget is focused the soft keyboard won't come up, and even if it was up it wouldn't work... apparently00:15
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keesjI guess he must be wright00:17
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revit's a bummer00:18
revbut i can use something like Squeak's GTK or wxWidgets bindings or just write my own soft input system for squeak00:18
revi've already started writing one actually, a couple years ago for another device00:19
revand it's pretty damn easy00:19
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revi could probably write a soft keyboard within an hour or two, before i even had a cross compilation environment installed00:19
keesjthis is the code that sets the input method
revkeesj: i need to get access to a machine for doing C dev for the nokia ... don't suppose you know of anyone sharing SSH accounts do you?00:21
revi only have access right now to a PPC ibook running OS X00:21
revand it's been driving me nuts that i can't write little C apps for the nokia if i need to00:22
revno vmware for O SX00:22
revi could get virtual PC i guess, but it would be SO slow00:22
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revkeesj: also, i wonder if that C code just sets the preferred input type- it doesn't bring the specified input method up i believe00:24
keesjhow nice squeak is00:24
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nomissqueak is so colorful that it puts me off.00:25
revnomis: yeah, but it isn't the only way it needs to be ... i'll show you what my dev image looks like00:25
nomisrev: that looks nice indeed.00:26
revkeesj: i like it a ton myself... one of the best things about smalltalk isn't the language so much as the environment around it- smalltalk traditionally has a very strong and mature class library and a really good, useful development environment. squeak is no exception.   and by dev env i don't mean some cheesy IDE that is a pain in the ass and gets in the way, but rather an IDE that is modular, tool-based, interactive (like python's R00:27
revEPL, but a lot more), simple yet really helpful and powerful00:27
revnomis: there i'm using a package that lets me use any IceWM theme i want00:27
revnomis: and i'm just using the Bluecurve theme, which i like the look of00:28
nomisat some point I'll look at smalltalk again.00:28
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* rev nods00:31
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revi am always afraid to come off like a frothy-mouthed evalgalist ... so i hope i don't do that. but i really like smalltalk, personally, and feel like it could use a bit more exposure, esp amoung the F/OSS set00:32
revbbiab ... gotta go pick up my wife from work. but if you want to discuss this more nomis, i'd love to. :)00:34
Takf/oss people love frothy-mouthed evangelists ;-)00:35
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tagtaghi, i need to mount my n770 but my dmesg don't find nothing... which kind of file system use by default?00:42
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FireSt0rMHow does one get a full install of perl on the 770? The perl that's on there seems to be missing many essential modules.00:54
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JaffaFireSt0rM: if you add, you can apt-get install perl - that worked enough for me to apt-get install libnet-www-perl and get "lwp-download" etc.00:58
FireSt0rMdoes that also install cpan?00:59
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littlefaeWell, hullo there maemo peeps.01:00
FireSt0rMJaffa: Couldn't find package libnet-www-perl?01:01
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littlefaeAny news on the possibility of an irc client that uses the GUI, or, perhaps a method to get the thumboard in xterm, I am a lil irked by the pickboard with its 5mm wide buttons. :)01:08
FireSt0rMIs it possible to move the rootfs to mmc card without having to erase everything and reinstall?01:10
FireSt0rMlittlefae: GAIM does IRC01:11
littlefaeGAIM stable on the 770 then?01:11
FireSt0rMWorks relatively well for me01:12
littlefaeThere a respository with all these stable apps, none seem to pop up in my app manager, added garage, maemo, the tableteer sites, and some misc one for 'becomeroot'01:12
FireSt0rMSome apps aren't in any reps01:13
FireSt0rMGo to the ApplicationRepository2006 (if you're running 2006)01:14
FireSt0rMSee if GAIM is in a rep01:14
littlefaeOkay, thats installing. :)01:20
littlefaeNow, all I need is tinyfugue and my device is 100% perfection. :)01:21
VeggenI'm gonna test the usefulness of it. gonna go abroad two weeks, no laptop with me :) (only my 770)01:21
littlefaeBrave, but I think you may be happy to. :)01:22
littlefaeOnly a few things irk me about it, compiling stuff to run on it, actually, is the only irk.01:22
Veggenwell. I don't really need a laptop, but I do like to check my mail and have access to web etc. Installed squirrelmail the other day, it's quite usable (and better on the 770 than mutt in an xterm. Never got the builtin client to work properly)01:23
FireSt0rMAnybody here actually done the ExtendedRootFilesystem?01:23
littlefaeOnly had it two days01:24
FireSt0rMyou installed squirrelmail where?01:24
Veggenon my own server, where my mail is :)01:24
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FireSt0rMYeah, I got that part ;)01:26
FireSt0rMyou guys haven't done the extended rootfs?01:27
FireSt0rMNot that you've had time yet fae, hehe01:27
littlefaeNo idea what it is, and isn't within my mandate01:27
FireSt0rMAllows you to extend the memory of your nokia onto the external memory01:27
littlefaeIn that case, yup, did it01:28
VeggenI find that the builtin rootfs isn't that small. I use it almost only for programs, and store things on the card.01:28
littlefaeI did the extend memory onto mmc option by 8MB01:28
Veggenoh, it's not that. that's swap. Also a necessity, I guess?01:28
littlefaeDunno, hasn't enhanced a thing to be honest.  And MMC bandwidth seems sluggish01:29
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littlefaeLets test this..01:31
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FireSt0rMI want to install the full perl insatll... which is like 28Mb01:35
FireSt0rMI only have 28Mb left ;)01:35
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FireSt0rMYou can also install a kernel patch which speeds up MMC speeds01:38
LittlefaeWell it works.01:38
* rev is back01:39
revFireSt0rM: what are you going to run w/ perl on your nokia?01:39
FireSt0rMWant to try running a port knocking-style utility01:40
FireSt0rMIt's actually a Single Packet Authorization utilityh01:41
FireSt0rMRequires 3-4 non-standard modules01:42
FireSt0rMeg. Crypt::CBC01:42
LittlefaeNow, I am no cracker, but, this thing would be great as a wifi analysis and WEP decryptor...01:42
FireSt0rMIt is... BUT... the processor's too slow to get anywhere fast.01:42
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LittlefaeTrue, takes a fast machine about 11 hours ti analyse enough.  Hate to think hw long it would take on here01:44
revi used to have a 40 MB or so perl install on my WinCE machine01:45
revFireSt0rM: is there any GUI toolkit, through gtk or even tk, suppoer for perl on the 770?01:45
FireSt0rMumm... possibly GTK01:46
FireSt0rMBut I may be talking crap01:46
revit was really awesome to have a full perl install on my CE handheld PC... even Perl/Tk was there and worked like a champ, as well as a simple perl IDE. it was really awesome to be able to develop lots of code on it, it was fun as hell.01:46
* rev nods01:46
LittlefaeThis might sound like a childish comment, but; is anyone else in awe of this things screen qualuty?01:47
LittlefaeIt's like a crackberry, only better.01:48
FireSt0rMYeah.. it has a VERY good screen01:49
FireSt0rMI was surprised01:49
FireSt0rMBut you need a good screen when staring at such small text01:50
LittlefaeMy only 'niggle' with it, is that the stylus makes rainbows when used. Temporarily, but raises the question over how durable it actually is.01:51
FireSt0rMMm yeah01:52
FireSt0rMMy 'niggle' with it is the processor speed01:52
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LittlefaeThat was a q I had, how/can I get podcasts straight from web/rss to the device?  The rss reader doesn't seem to pick up the enclosure tags.01:54
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FireSt0rMYou don't. lol02:00
FireSt0rMAt least I don't think you can02:00
LittlefaeSomething to work on then. :)02:01
FireSt0rMApple needs to make iTunes for the 770 ;)02:01
LittlefaeHellll yes02:01
FireSt0rMBut then again... Apple is probably releasing their own tablet soon02:01
FireSt0rMTHAT's what I want.02:02
LittlefaeOr, at least some decen AAC support frim Nokia02:02
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LittlefaeNone of mt unencrypted files plat on this thing.  Did on all my cellphones, save the RAZR02:03
Littlefaemy typing is the suck02:03
LittlefaeMplayer seems a lil busted. All my mime types were messed up.,02:05
LittlefaeKnow of any decent PIM?02:07
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revthis router i have sucks02:18
revi had a ton to say to FireSt0rM and Littlefae ... but the router was dead, but it hadn't registered yet, so much for that02:18
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Littlefa1Can a mod boot littlefae off for me please? My 770 crashed02:30
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FireSt0rMHey rev...03:26
FireSt0rMYou yelled?03:26
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htaccessis 1.2006.26-8 equivalent to "Internet Tablet 2005 OS edition"?03:47
htaccessim trying to install which is for "Internet Tablet 2005 OS edition" on a nokia 770 1.2006.26-8 but the Application manager complains: unable to install package is incompatible with current software03:49
FireSt0rMThe 2006 version is installed through the application manager03:56
FireSt0rMgo to
FireSt0rMand follow the instructions at the top of the page03:57
htaccessFireSt0rM: which version am i using if i have 1.2006.26-8?03:57
FireSt0rMYou can also install these files manually03:58
FireSt0rMoff to bed04:00
htaccessFireSt0rM: thanks, my confusion arose from thinking i was running the 2005 version, i just added a new source to the application manager, thanks04:07
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