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| _matthias_ | anyone ever used one of those? http://www.minitechnet.de/amoi_t31_1.html | 00:08 |
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| tigert | myren: that "330" "photo" doesnt look like a nokia device at all | 09:01 |
| tigert | its like someone took a tomtom or such and photoshopped the logo there | 09:01 |
| tigert | morning by the way | 09:01 |
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| spaetz | morning tigert | 09:08 |
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| tigert | hey | 09:25 |
| tigert | a | 09:25 |
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| saimonn | Hi all | 10:44 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
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| florian_kc | morning | 11:08 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning from Barcelona | 11:15 |
| _follower__ | nice day again to make us jealous? :-) | 11:16 |
| florian_kc | :-) | 11:22 |
| inz | Very good morning from cold and rainy Tampere! | 11:36 |
| glass_ | it's cold and rainy here? damn | 11:37 |
| glass_ | maybe i should open the curtains | 11:37 |
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| inz | glass_, well. it's actually hasn't been raining for a couple of hours | 11:56 |
| inz | glass_, and it's not _that_ cold either, but there was a nasty wind at around 9 | 11:56 |
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| mlpug | what is sapwood? (cant find understandable answer by googling) | 12:02 |
| inz | mlpug, a pixmap caching server and gtk theme engine | 12:05 |
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| mlpug | inz, is it maemo specific or used elsewhere as well. is there some website elaborating that animal | 12:19 |
| inz | mlplug, maemo specific, and afaik there's no website | 12:19 |
| inz | -l | 12:19 |
| mlpug | ok. tnx. that explains that googling did not provide answers easily to these questions. see u later. | 12:20 |
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| inz | tigert, just tested out geopress, it decided, that I am in the middle of the Näsijärvi. | 13:29 |
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| tigert | heh | 13:48 |
| tigert | you typed "tampere"? | 13:48 |
| tigert | its probably the reference point of the city | 13:48 |
| inz | tigert, I wrote the whole address | 13:49 |
| tigert | ah | 13:49 |
| tigert | well, you can click the map too | 13:49 |
| tigert | and point it there by hand | 13:50 |
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| inz | tigert, map? (there's probably something wrong w/ my geopost installation then) | 14:28 |
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| tigert | inz: you need a google maps key there in the config | 15:48 |
| tigert | then it shows you a google map embedded in the post editor | 15:48 |
| inz | ah, ok | 15:49 |
| inz | tigert, got it working, thx | 15:54 |
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| tigert | goody | 16:07 |
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| e-voc | hello | 17:19 |
| e-voc | is this channel about maemo.org/nokia770? | 17:20 |
| Knirch | mostly | 17:20 |
| e-voc | :) | 17:20 |
| e-voc | nice | 17:20 |
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| e-voc | okay, is there a posibility to deactivate the wlan device to save power? | 17:21 |
| nomis | e-voc: it gets disabled when you enter "flight mode". | 17:21 |
| e-voc | hrm? | 17:22 |
| inz | e-voc, aka. offline mode | 17:22 |
| inz | e-voc, from the power key menu | 17:22 |
| nomis | e-voc: press the power button. A menu comes up that allows you to enable "flight mode" - emit as few radiation as possible when being on the plane... | 17:22 |
| e-voc | hrm, never seen that | 17:23 |
| Jaffa | e-voc: also, if you're disconnected it shouldn't use any power. | 17:23 |
| e-voc | yeah, kust when i'm online/connected with my nokia cellphone via BT | 17:24 |
| e-voc | *just | 17:24 |
| Jaffa | nomis: "offline mode" only stops you from going online, doesn't it? The normal power mgmt shouldn't be any worse unless you're actively using a particular bit. | 17:24 |
| nomis | Jaffa: well, offline mode also disables bluetooth. If you need this you probably have to rely on the power management of the 770 to switch off the unused wlan stuff. | 17:25 |
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| e-voc | where can i find [CTRL] or [ALT] key? | 17:28 |
| nomis | e-voc: xterm has an menu entry for CTRL-keys. | 17:28 |
| nomis | unfortunately it is not on the on-screen keyboard. | 17:29 |
| e-voc | ic | 17:29 |
| e-voc | i have xterm installed, i'll check that, thanks | 17:29 |
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| inz | e-voc, in terminals you can emulate alt-key (most of the time) with the "cancel" key | 17:42 |
| e-voc | how that? | 17:43 |
| inz | e-voc, for example in irssi you can press "cancel", followed by window number, and the window changes | 17:43 |
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| e-voc | aha, that's nice, i use irssi but one channel ;) | 17:43 |
| inz | e-voc, cancel is the key below the rocker key, the "reverse G" | 17:44 |
| e-voc | cancel being escape key? | 17:44 |
| inz | yeah | 17:44 |
| inz | That's what it's bound to | 17:44 |
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| inz | quite logical | 17:44 |
| e-voc | ic | 17:44 |
| e-voc | aye :) | 17:44 |
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| nomis | well, <Esc>-<number> works for irssi on regular terminals too :) | 17:46 |
| inz | nomis, and in some terminals using alt does not work at all ;) | 17:48 |
| inz | nomis, or only works for numbers (for example SSH's windows Secure Shell client) | 17:48 |
| e-voc | are there maemo developers around? | 17:48 |
| e-voc | application devs | 17:48 |
| inz | What do you mean by maemo developers? | 17:48 |
| e-voc | writing apps | 17:49 |
| inz | Well, I'm maintaining the apps in maemo-hackers-repository | 17:49 |
| inz | Most of them aren't originally written by me, but anyway | 17:49 |
| e-voc | nice :) | 17:50 |
| e-voc | i'm quite a noob with the nokia770 | 17:50 |
| e-voc | at least i made it to get root mode ;) | 17:50 |
| inz | e-voc, then you oughta dive head-first to developing apps, that should teach you ;P | 17:50 |
| e-voc | hehe | 17:52 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, Marius' email to maemo-dev is interesting. | 17:59 |
| koen | Jaffa: +1 | 18:09 |
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| X-Fade_ | It would be nice if they just put the new version of the AI in the repository. So can update your image instead of flashing a new image. | 18:10 |
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| Tak | agreed | 18:17 |
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| foop | HI | 18:28 |
| foop | Is there a gcc package available for the 770? I can find gcc in a repository but the installation fais because i can't find gcc-base anywhere | 18:30 |
| dpb | You don't want gcc on the 770. | 18:31 |
| e-voc | foop: i'm a noob, but i think i read something about x-compilers | 18:32 |
| e-voc | so you compile your software on a x86 targetting the arm with that crosscompiler | 18:32 |
| e-voc | anyone may correct me :) | 18:33 |
| foop | Ok thanx i found something for crosscompiling but i want gcc on my nokia for compiling my own small apps | 18:33 |
| foop | On the nokia | 18:34 |
| Jaffa | foop: you'd be better off porting lcc or somesuch, I imagine. | 18:34 |
| Jaffa | koen: it seems no-one agrees ;-/ | 18:34 |
| koen | Jaffa: it shows nokia is only good at making uninformed smart-ass comments | 18:35 |
| foop | Ok... But why is there a gcc package without the gcc-base package available via the packagemanagement tol? | 18:36 |
| dpb | Really, you do not want gcc on it. The device has too little memory for it. | 18:37 |
| dpb | Use Scratchbox. | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | my, how have times changed | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | the laptop I bought in 2000 had less memory and less CPU power than the 770 | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | gcc ran on it, IIRC | 18:39 |
| foop | before i used rthe nokia i wrote small programs on a hp jornada | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | although it didn't run a full X + Gtk environment at the same time | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | so the comparison is not truly accurate | 18:39 |
| foop | This one is much older than the nokia | 18:40 |
| thain | even if you can do something, doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a better way :) | 18:40 |
| foop | Its not neccessary that 770 can comoile 10000 lines of code just for very small apps | 18:41 |
| thain | anyway, i think the question is no. | 18:41 |
| thain | you can try to squeeze arm-debian's gcc in or cross-compile it yourself. | 18:42 |
| foop | Ok^ä | 18:42 |
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| thain | mgedmin: your laptop probably had a bigger hard disk than the 770 :D | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | well, not really... 1.2 gb out of which only 750 were in my Linux partition | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | my 770 has a 1 GB rs-mmc card + 128 mb builtin flash | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | and the laptop had a 640x480 screen | 18:44 |
| thain | right, if you use a memory card | 18:44 |
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| foop | Search for the specs of a jornada 720 i run x and i am compiling code at the same time, of course it runs netbsd^^ | 18:46 |
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| Jaffa | koen: interesting to see that Marius is doing what I'd thought he'd intended which is to say "well, not that I'm *promosing* a maintenance release at any point"(paraphrased) | 18:54 |
| koen | nokia should stop with all that cloak and dagger shit | 18:55 |
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| * X-Fade gets his chair to watch the flame wars ;) | 19:10 | |
| ian_brasil | that is like asking Micro$oft to release source code maybe | 19:14 |
| glass_ | they're big enough to have cloak and dagger shit in-house | 19:16 |
| ian_brasil | well nokia lawyers have to do something i guess | 19:17 |
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| tko | koen should discuss with ari about such things | 19:18 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: I'm resisting the temptation to further reply. | 19:18 |
| Jaffa | tko: what, about the rudeness of his employees on mailing lists? | 19:18 |
| glass_ | yeah them and the managers stabbing each others projects and pushing their own with expensive multimedia productions just couple of people see | 19:19 |
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| tko | rudeness is in the eye of the beholder, or something | 19:24 |
| tko | seemed pretty lame compared to debian or lkml | 19:25 |
| sage-- | redness is also in the eye of bongholder | 19:25 |
| Jaffa | tko: yes, but 1) @nokia.com is representing a supplier/customer relationship; 2) the questions obviously weren't stupid (as stated) because of Marius' further clarification. | 19:27 |
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| ferenc | hi all | 19:29 |
| koen | hey ferenc | 19:29 |
| tko | hmm, I'm pretty sure I had something not important to ask ferenc, but now can't recall what it might be... | 19:30 |
| ferenc | tko: i'm gonna be around tonigh in case you remember | 19:31 |
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| ferenc | i wanted to tell about one thing at least | 19:33 |
| ferenc | i am not sure if Marius was here earlier and mentioned the .install files. | 19:34 |
| ferenc | (Marius is the maintainer of the Application Manager, just in case..) | 19:34 |
| ferenc | so, the App Manager in OS 2006 can deal with some special .install files. | 19:35 |
| ferenc | i show you an example: | 19:35 |
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| ferenc | [install] | 19:36 |
| ferenc | repo_name = mistral-extras | 19:36 |
| ferenc | repo_deb = deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras mistral free non-free | 19:36 |
| ferenc | package = maemo-mapper | 19:36 |
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| ferenc | so if you feed this file to App Manager, then it will update its source.list and install the package in question. | 19:37 |
| ferenc | Marius suggested that we could gradually update the ApplicationCatalog2006 page. | 19:37 |
| ferenc | and introduce this idea to the public. | 19:37 |
| ferenc | the support of .install is not perfect, but you can always get the latest AppManager either from Sardine, or by recompiling the sources ;) | 19:38 |
| ferenc | What do you guys think? | 19:38 |
| tko | ferenc, I may have been thinking about getting screen+irssi account on maemo.org, but I think that's not it either :) | 19:42 |
| _follower__ | on a completely different note, 770s really do make great torches... :-) | 19:45 |
| ferenc | tko: and my answer will be, sorry, but that's not feasible. | 19:45 |
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| Tak | _follower__: are you sure you used enough oil? | 19:45 |
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| ferenc | tko: i promised Carlos to figure out something, i am working on it. | 19:45 |
| tko | ferenc, ok, cool | 19:46 |
| _follower__ | Tak: heh | 19:47 |
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| koen | heh | 20:11 |
| koen | 'proper maintenance plan' | 20:12 |
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| keesj | _follower__, yea , great torches | 20:34 |
| lostinbrasil | Chenca | 20:35 |
| keesj | ferenc, where should that .install be located? | 20:35 |
| ferenc | keesj: it could be on any server | 20:36 |
| keesj | I would just like a mime-type for repositories and themes | 20:36 |
| ferenc | only requirement is that the web server should serve it with proper MIME type | 20:36 |
| ferenc | keesj: i know nothing about themes | 20:37 |
| keesj | hmm the package fields is also strange | 20:37 |
| ferenc | the MIME type for the .install is : application/x-install-instructions | 20:38 |
| ferenc | why? | 20:38 |
| keesj | because I hope that one repository will host different packages | 20:39 |
| keesj | and if both are in the same file this will lead to problems | 20:39 |
| keesj | the install file then performs 2 steps | 20:39 |
| keesj | so I am +1 for a application/x-debian-repository and a application/x-install-instructions with only repo name + package | 20:40 |
| keesj | brb | 20:41 |
| ferenc | keesj: i am lost, could you pls elaborate it a bit? | 20:41 |
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| ferenc | keesj: i think i got you. well, you can add the .install to your homepage. you don't need to setup a Debian repository, just use an existing one. | 20:46 |
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| ferenc | keesj: on the other hand i don't see right now benefit in having a MIME type for a repository | 20:48 |
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| FireSt0rM | Hey, I've still been looking for a way to set up aliases for ash on the 770, but still haven't managed to get it to work | 20:50 |
| FireSt0rM | Does anyone have this working? | 20:50 |
| mgedmin | osso-xterm from maemo-hackers doesn't spawn a login shell and doesn't therefore read ~/.profile | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | I'm still eagerly awaiting a fix | 20:51 |
| FireSt0rM | damn | 20:52 |
| FireSt0rM | Cuz some commands take a long time to type | 20:52 |
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| FireSt0rM | It works if you su | 20:53 |
| FireSt0rM | Just not the default shell you get when you launch it | 20:53 |
| keesj | re | 20:55 |
| keesj | ferenc, the repository name is not even unique right? | 20:56 |
| ferenc | keesj: it is not even important as far as understood Marius. | 20:57 |
| ferenc | keesj: that name is only used somewhere in the UI, maybe a caption of a window. | 20:58 |
| ferenc | "The "repo_name" entry is optional. If you omit it, the repository will have no name. The name of a repository is only used in the UI; it has no effect on functionality." | 20:58 |
| ferenc | quoted from: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/osso-application-installer/doc/repository.txt | 20:59 |
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| keesj | ferenc, yes, so it is very easy to replace the #maemo:essential repository :) | 21:02 |
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| keesj | but I don't think this is a problem. if people like me want to install a .deb file , that file can "screw" up anyway | 21:03 |
| ferenc | keesj: exactly. none cares about the essential repo anyway ;) | 21:04 |
| keesj | My only point is that the install does 2 separate thing, it might even install a repository and download from somewhere else | 21:05 |
| keesj | but it's pretty easy to write good dialogs for handling adding/changing/removing repositories | 21:06 |
| ferenc | yes, true. | 21:06 |
| ferenc | if there are two repos configured and both have package 'x' then the App Manager will only pick the latest version. | 21:07 |
| keesj | that is just the way debian works, we can't change that right? | 21:08 |
| ferenc | i don't think we want to change it. | 21:08 |
| keesj | but the tone on the mailing list is quite hard | 21:10 |
| ferenc | what do you mean? | 21:10 |
| keesj | "smartass replies" | 21:12 |
| keesj | on the mailing list | 21:12 |
| keesj | but I would like to know the future of maemo:) | 21:13 |
| koen | there might be a future, but nokia is not sure yet | 21:13 |
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| keesj | anyway I am having a great time learing stuff. | 21:18 |
| keesj | but I can imagine that the current maemo if quite heavy for most devices | 21:19 |
| X-Fade | And I am amazed how you can have so much fun with something trivial as a LCARS theme ;) | 21:20 |
| * mgedmin wonders what "LCARS" means | 21:20 | |
| X-Fade | Library Computer Access and Retrieval System | 21:21 |
| keesj | X-Fade, your doing a 770 library project? | 21:22 |
| Tak | lcars = trek geek theme | 21:22 |
| X-Fade | You guys haven't been reading the planet I guess ;) | 21:23 |
| * keesj is already on wikipedia | 21:23 | |
| X-Fade | http://youtube.com/watch?v=YwXBPjLdJnU | 21:23 |
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| tko | nice sound effects :) | 21:25 |
| tko | oh btw, who's packaging the lcars sounds? I might know how to package is so that you don't need a separate package to restore original sounds | 21:26 |
| X-Fade | There is a little problem with the chat program. As that has a black text color as default ;) | 21:26 |
| X-Fade | tko: This is the author: http://synthesize.us/LCARS_PADD.html?title=LCARS_PADD | 21:27 |
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| X-Fade | How are the maemo-theme-tools coming along? I see a lot of work in svn? | 21:29 |
| X-Fade | Even a template regenerator, to create a template from sliced image files :) That is pretty sweet! | 21:30 |
| florian | re | 21:31 |
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| ferenc | koen: we are just about loosing Devesh who took care of the roadmap. | 21:32 |
| ferenc | unfortunately he leaves the team | 21:33 |
| koen | ferenc: I heard about him going to symbian-land | 21:33 |
| ferenc | and yes, we suck on communicating about the future. | 21:33 |
| ferenc | many of us is scared or don't even know what we are supposed to say and what not. | 21:33 |
| ferenc | that is the fact. | 21:33 |
| ferenc | the proposal of having a community liaison is one option. | 21:34 |
| ferenc | but in my opinion all the key developers (like tko) should join this channel and write smartass comments like David did today. | 21:35 |
| ferenc | even a smartass comment is better then nothing. | 21:35 |
| koen | actually no | 21:36 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Comments mean that people are actively using your product. | 21:36 |
| * tko is waiting for his maemo.org account to get here during the day | 21:36 | |
| ferenc | koen: OK, we could argue about the tone | 21:36 |
| koen | ferenc: like I said if nokia can only give smartass comments you loose a great deal of goodwill | 21:36 |
| MDK | nokia is a huge beast, you know | 21:37 |
| koen | ferenc: especially if marius is going to contradict david later on | 21:37 |
| ferenc | koen: yes, true. but we are all different (luckily) and sometimes we have good/bad days. | 21:37 |
| keesj | on the other hand how hard should one be | 21:37 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: I don't think this particular Nokia employee looks very proffesional if insults someone without reason. | 21:38 |
| keesj | but if everything else fails, take time to read the Career programmer guerilla tactics http://tinyurl.com/yk294s | 21:38 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: as I said everybody is different and I am sure david just had a bad day, or a bad moment. | 21:39 |
| MDK | X-Fade: maemo-theme-tools are doing good | 21:39 |
| keesj | it's a great book that helps understand politics :) | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | "professional" reminds me of http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/09/dignity_is_dead.html | 21:39 |
| MDK | X-Fade: we've got lots of stuff coming | 21:39 |
| MDK | we'll blogging about this soon I hope | 21:39 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Sometimes you got to set your own personality aside ;) | 21:39 |
| FireSt0rM | How can one get cpan installed on the 770? | 21:39 |
| X-Fade | MDK: It looks pretty sweet :) | 21:40 |
| FireSt0rM | I'd like to be able to run some perl scripts | 21:40 |
| MDK | X-Fade: yeah, tigert is working on something really cool too ;) | 21:40 |
| tko | I think I counted 6 nokians here.. just need to get our bosses demand more irc time from us :) | 21:40 |
| * mgedmin imagines seeing nicks 'nokian1' through 'nokian6' in the user list | 21:41 | |
| ferenc | X-Fade: what do you exactly mean? | 21:41 |
| MDK | there will be a new cool community theme soon | 21:41 |
| Tak | could suffix your nick with _nokian ;-) | 21:41 |
| MDK | tango-theme of course | 21:41 |
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| X-Fade | ferenc: If you write from a @nokia account, you voice the opinion of your employer? | 21:42 |
| ferenc | tak: no way. i am here, because i wanted to be here and i ensure you i am not paid for this chatting right now. | 21:42 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: no | 21:42 |
| * Tak shrugs | 21:42 | |
| Tak | I didn't mean because you're forced to be here and are being paid | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: I think it makes Nokia look bad if you do that. But maybe that is just me ;) | 21:42 |
| ferenc | Tak: you would like to know who is who? | 21:43 |
| Tak | well - it helps give one an idea of who's not speaking from their anal orifice | 21:43 |
| Tak | I personally don't really care | 21:44 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: well, you are right to some extent. but keep in mind the human factor. | 21:44 |
| ferenc | i am not here to defend david on anybody else, but come on, don't make such conclusions from one single email. | 21:45 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Well I don't care about it much. But imagine someone searching for something and finding such a message via google. | 21:45 |
| X-Fade | But lets not make it bigger than it is :D | 21:46 |
| ferenc | yes, that is scary. but taking sentences out of context is always dangerous. | 21:46 |
| ferenc | exactly. | 21:46 |
| tko | david is debian developer so I wouldn't be surprised to find much more inflammatory material from other lists :) | 21:46 |
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| ferenc | so, about .install: shall we somehow change the Applicationcatalog2006 page? | 21:47 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Does it work for current AI versions? | 21:47 |
| ferenc | or shall i hack the .install creation into the extras repo, so when you upload a package the .install will be created automagically? | 21:47 |
| keesj | ferenc, if the app is not in a repository .deb is just fine not? | 21:48 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: yes, it does, but as Marius writes in that text file: it is not supported ;) | 21:48 |
| ferenc | keesj: yes, it is perfectly fine. | 21:48 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Well, you are about to introduce it :) So it must work.. | 21:48 |
| X-Fade | You can only introduce it once.. | 21:48 |
| keesj | what is perfectly fine ? me ? | 21:49 |
| tko | oh, are we planning to handle different states of stability for packages as brought up on mailing list? | 21:49 |
| ferenc | keesj:you are probably fine too, but the app outside the repo, i meant. | 21:49 |
| *** Guard is now known as nokian1 | 21:49 | |
| * nokian1 claiming ownership | 21:49 | |
| *** nokian1 is now known as Guard][an | 21:49 | |
| Tak | hehehe | 21:49 |
| Guard][an | :D | 21:49 |
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| Guard][an | (no i'm not from nokia) | 21:49 |
| X-Fade | tko: Do you think you can add a safe-mode to the desktop? Holding home while booting near the end of the progress bar? | 21:49 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: it has been introduced long ago when Marius put the .txt file to stage. | 21:50 |
| ferenc | it is just one thing that no one has noticed | 21:50 |
| ferenc | the support of .install is going to improve. | 21:50 |
| tko | X-Fade, define safe mode? | 21:50 |
| X-Fade | tko: So you can escape a 'white screen of death' when a plugin does wierd things.. | 21:50 |
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| ferenc | if you check out the latest sources from stage you will see. | 21:50 |
| tko | X-Fade, if an applet crashes during loading m-a-d should notice and not load it the next time | 21:51 |
| keesj | it doens't . | 21:51 |
| X-Fade | tko: How do you explain the while desktop problem then? | 21:51 |
| keesj | not on it2006 | 21:51 |
| X-Fade | Or the endless reboots? | 21:51 |
| keesj | thanks for the talk. | 21:52 |
| tko | it doesn't crash during init but slightly later? | 21:52 |
| ferenc | keesj: ahh, sorry. i got youwrong. | 21:53 |
| ferenc | keesj: one should have the app in a debian repo if you want to use .install. | 21:53 |
| X-Fade | tko, desktop is completely white. The power button popup does work. | 21:53 |
| keesj | ferenc, yes , that is what I was trying to say | 21:53 |
| ferenc | keesj: sorry, i just did not get it. | 21:53 |
| ferenc | keesj: but you can get upload rights of you join garage with your project. | 21:55 |
| ferenc | s/of/if | 21:55 |
| keesj | I have been "invided" for the garage repository. | 21:56 |
| ian_brasil | a bit of the problem maybe is the size of Nokia in that people are spread all over | 21:56 |
| * ferenc is from the PR dept of garage ;) | 21:56 | |
| ian_brasil | maybe we need scheduled team meetings on IRC like ubuntu do | 21:56 |
| ferenc | ian_brasil: well, the core team is pretty much centralized at one place. | 21:56 |
| keesj | but as non debian developer it's quite hard. so I have setup a deb repository , and am trying to learn about the gpg stuff | 21:56 |
| ferenc | ian_brasil: Carlos has an action point on that, AFAIK | 21:56 |
| ian_brasil | #maemo-meeting sounds cool | 21:57 |
| ferenc | keesj: learning takes some time, true, but it worth it. | 21:57 |
| tko | ferenc, that would be great! | 21:57 |
| ferenc | tko: yes, but what will be discuss? we need an agenda. | 21:57 |
| ferenc | and a person who drives that. | 21:58 |
| ian_brasil | ferenc: you talking about manaus cause if you are no-one there has IRC acccess AFAIK | 21:58 |
| tko | I'm sure there would be enough topics to discuss if we had someone driving the whole thing | 21:58 |
| ferenc | ian_brasil: ah, OK. i was not talking about Helsinki and Tampere | 21:59 |
| ferenc | tko: you are right. | 21:59 |
| tko | just by someone going around the teams and checking up what's cooking currently would give an agenda for a month or so :) | 21:59 |
| Guard][an | hmm is every project added to garage available from application manager ??? or does the project owner need to make it available ? | 22:00 |
| ferenc | ian_brasil: i mean i was talking about those towns... damn, i am sleepy.. | 22:00 |
| ferenc | Guard][an: a garage admin can get privileges to upload to the "extras" repository and hence make the application available for the app manager. | 22:01 |
| ferenc | tko: not a bad idea. | 22:01 |
| ferenc | tko: and it does not require 8 hours a day :) | 22:01 |
| Tak | I should get around to that | 22:02 |
| Guard][an | ferenc: ok thx, i expected to be able to install the rotozoom stuff demo through the app manager but it seems it's not available :) | 22:02 |
| X-Fade | tko: And add your open items list to the agenda and we have a lot to talk about ;) | 22:02 |
| tko | and if you happen to run out of ideas, just announce a meeting is scheduled at <date> and there's no other agenda than what community proposes | 22:03 |
| ian_brasil | ok, while we are on this why not start up some maemo sprints as well | 22:03 |
| ian_brasil | for nokia guys to get together and some community heads to get involved too | 22:04 |
| * ian_brasil with sponshorhip of course :) | 22:04 | |
| ferenc | Guard][an: i can invite the owner of the n770demos project to become an extras uploader. let's see if he accepts it. | 22:05 |
| ian_brasil | here is a good example https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | 22:06 |
| ferenc | ian_brasil: we should enable easier contributions before organizing such an event | 22:07 |
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| tko | for haf we should be pretty much ready | 22:08 |
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| ian_brasil | what do you mean?...just create a project on the garage and upload your .deb or have i missed something here | 22:08 |
| ferenc | tko: yes, for Hildon you can actually take and apply contributed patches etc. | 22:08 |
| tko | though it hasn't been tested in practice that much.. lazy community :) | 22:08 |
| ferenc | you could even invite people to your projects, once you move them to garage ;) | 22:09 |
| X-Fade | But is Sardine usable these days? :) | 22:09 |
| ferenc | tko: i am still waiting for the 1st Haf project to be migrated from stage to garage. | 22:09 |
| tko | I wouldn't care much where it is hosted | 22:10 |
| tko | I consider the content more important (though, yes, we're lacking there as well) | 22:10 |
| ferenc | tko: the place of hosting matters if you want to make it widely available. | 22:10 |
| ferenc | of course Sardine makes things a lot easier for testing | 22:11 |
| ferenc | but again, what is the point if we do not let people closer to the source and not let them mess around together with us? | 22:12 |
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| ferenc | welcome Carlos! | 22:12 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: It left my device in an un-bootable state a few times ;) | 22:12 |
| MDK | ferenc: what do you mean by "messing around"? | 22:12 |
| tko | you only need a good enough starting page and then follow the links, and the links could be on stage or whereever | 22:12 |
| ferenc | now you can ask all questions about sardine ;) | 22:12 |
| carlosguerreiro | I will add the answers to the FAQ | 22:13 |
| tko | even if it's in garage, you need to know what to look for | 22:13 |
| X-Fade | carlos knows that Sardine was broken more than once ;) | 22:13 |
| ferenc | MDK: grant commit rights to some guys who showed that they are able to contribute to a certain Haf module for instance. | 22:13 |
| MDK | ferenc: ah. Definitelly, I agree | 22:13 |
| ferenc | tko: yes, true. | 22:13 |
| robtaylor | carlosguerreiro: dude :) | 22:14 |
| ferenc | and we made a picture about Haf 3 weeks ago. | 22:14 |
| ferenc | that picture could serve as a map. | 22:14 |
| FireSt0rM | Anyone know why, wheneve I try to scp stuff onto the 770, it stalls about halfway through, and the 770 reboots? | 22:14 |
| carlosguerreiro | For the last couple of weeks sardine has been broken most of the time. the problem is that I was away from it from too long and sardine still relies on me to bug people to quickly fix problems :-( | 22:14 |
| ferenc | and it could be on the front page of the "hildon" garage project for instance. | 22:14 |
| tko | right, we need tigert to make it tango =) | 22:15 |
| carlosguerreiro | I'm not back in force | 22:15 |
| X-Fade | carlosguerreiro: It would help if Nokia people actually used Sardine ;) | 22:15 |
| X-Fade | Spotting that it was broken was not that hard. | 22:15 |
| MDK | tko: don't interrupt tigert, he's working hard on good stuff already ;) | 22:15 |
| tko | it would also help if there was a mail or something complaining when things break.. I never remember to check the status page | 22:15 |
| tko | MDK, oh, heh.. | 22:16 |
| MDK | gstreamer guys have a smart bot that complains on irc if things break | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | FireSt0rM: how much stuff? | 22:16 |
| ferenc | tko: about the map thingy. i can do an initial version, but you need a guy from your team who will maintain it. | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | maybe it runs out of memory? | 22:16 |
| carlosguerreiro | Yeah, that's on my todo list. I'll actually add to the the tracker | 22:16 |
| FireSt0rM | Only 5MB | 22:17 |
| MDK | but e-mail notification would be more usefull | 22:17 |
| FireSt0rM | and I copy directly to the MMC | 22:17 |
| FireSt0rM | 1GB | 22:17 |
| FireSt0rM | It should have plenty of memory | 22:17 |
| Tak | ankh svn has a similar bot | 22:17 |
| tko | ferenc, can't promise maintenance, but luc is working on a bigger picture sort of things atm | 22:17 |
| carlosguerreiro | You know, there's one issue that's being making me think twice about implementing those email notifications | 22:17 |
| tko | IMHO things that deserve attention should be more widely pushed.. like our dailywtf :) | 22:18 |
| ferenc | tko: luc is working on it for a long time already, i know. | 22:18 |
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| MDK | but the bot would not solve the most important problems I guess | 22:18 |
| carlosguerreiro | There are intermitent (in some cases frequent) build failures due to problems in scratchbox/QEMU :-(. That would result in quite a few emails | 22:19 |
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| rev | ahoy! anyone know if there is a way to call up the soft keyboard from a program using D-BUS? | 22:19 |
| MDK | it's easy spot compilation problems | 22:19 |
| MDK | but the current issues are "functionality problems" | 22:19 |
| MDK | or rarther "runtime problems" | 22:19 |
| tko | carlosguerreiro, just forward those to sbox/qemu maintainers and they should either fix sbox/qemu or set up a mail filter =) | 22:19 |
| carlosguerreiro | Misha says he's done that already. Yeah, the email filter will do it. Hopefully people will not filter all the emails though ;-) | 22:21 |
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| carlosguerreiro | Btw, can somebody suggest the easiest way to send email from inside scratchbox? | 22:22 |
| MDK | hmm, I guess a lightweight smtp agent would do | 22:23 |
| MDK | like msmtp | 22:23 |
| carlosguerreiro | Any volunteer to package that in garage? | 22:23 |
| MDK | AFAIK it has little dependencies | 22:23 |
| MDK | I can try | 22:23 |
| carlosguerreiro | Cool | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | FireSt0rM: no idea then; I've scp'ed larger files without problems | 22:24 |
| FireSt0rM | :( | 22:24 |
| FireSt0rM | It's weird, I've tried it several times, it always reboots | 22:24 |
| carlosguerreiro | About the soft keyboard activation. tko, should one be able to do that by setting the focus on a text widget? | 22:24 |
| tko | carlosguerreiro, oh, I meant to ask you to reply to the 'end user roadmap' mail in maemo-developers.. I recall you mentioned here you'd do that? | 22:25 |
| tko | normally I'd wait until next week before starting to hunt down people, but... :) | 22:26 |
| carlosguerreiro | Yes, I'm still going to do that, but you know, a day has only 24 hours and I need to sleep 8 ;-). It's not a simple reply | 22:26 |
| tko | I'm not sure how to prevent the vkb from going away. Tomas was replying to it yesterday (I think) but I forgot to read it | 22:27 |
| tko | carlosguerreiro, sure, that's all I wanted to hear | 22:27 |
| FireSt0rM | ohh... could it be that my computer is sending out too fast? | 22:28 |
| FireSt0rM | What if I scp from the nokia? | 22:28 |
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| tko | FireSt0rM, have you tried copying in to the internal flash? might be something funny going on with mmc driver | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | FireSt0rM: have you seen the wiki page about debugging reboot problems? | 22:31 |
| FireSt0rM | tko: yeah, same thing happens :-/ | 22:31 |
| FireSt0rM | No havent seen that one | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ReportingRebootIssues | 22:31 |
| FireSt0rM | Does anyone else's mplayer not show video? for AVIs? | 22:31 |
| FireSt0rM | tx | 22:31 |
| Tak | that happens to me too if I copy largish files directly to the n770 | 22:33 |
| FireSt0rM | bootreason says "32wd_to" | 22:33 |
| FireSt0rM | How large is largish? | 22:33 |
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| Tak | over a few M iirc | 22:34 |
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| FireSt0rM | Hmm same | 22:34 |
| Tak | I got a $10 mmc reader | 22:34 |
| FireSt0rM | wd32_to: Watchdog reset - something was consuming too much CPU causing a watchdog reset | 22:35 |
| FireSt0rM | Lemme try scping directly on the nokia to my computer | 22:35 |
| Tak | before that, I wrote a little c program to copy files slowly, and that seemed to resolve it | 22:35 |
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| FireSt0rM | Yeah, that's what I think is happening... it's copying too fast for the processor to take it | 22:36 |
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| carlosguerreiro | Can somebody summarize the points about Sardine I missed in the discussion? | 22:37 |
| FireSt0rM | Does mplayer read AVI files fine for most ppl? | 22:38 |
| FireSt0rM | The Video player doesn't | 22:38 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: there were questions about its usability. | 22:38 |
| Tak | the video player is very particular about the format of avi files | 22:38 |
| ferenc | does it work on a 770 right now. | 22:38 |
| ferenc | ? | 22:38 |
| FireSt0rM | Tak: How about mplayer? | 22:39 |
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| Tak | mplayer in general is nonpicky | 22:39 |
| X-Fade | carlosguerreiro: That it has been too unstable to actually test it properly. | 22:39 |
| FireSt0rM | it plays the file... cuz I can HEAR the sound | 22:40 |
| FireSt0rM | but I get no video output | 22:40 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: and of course Sardine makes things a lot easier for testing, but could people easily contribute patches? | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | FireSt0rM: I believe I have something in my ~/.ssh/config that chooses a different crypto algorithm | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | it may be easier on the CPU | 22:40 |
| FireSt0rM | Ahh | 22:40 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: is your team ready to take patches and apply them or even allow some people to commit to the code itself? | 22:40 |
| FireSt0rM | That could be what's contributing to CPU usage | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | Cipher blowfish | 22:40 |
| FireSt0rM | Cuz copying isn't really CPU intensive I thought | 22:40 |
| carlosguerreiro | We are more than ready to take patches. | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | let me put it in context: | 22:40 |
| Tak | FireSt0rM: http://rafb.net/paste/results/1q8fP224.html | 22:41 |
| mgedmin | my laptop's ~/.ssh/config has a 'Host mg-nokia\nUser user\nCipher blowfish' entry | 22:41 |
| FireSt0rM | Tak: Thanks! | 22:41 |
| mgedmin | and ssh/scp encrypt everything, which may be CPU intensive | 22:41 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: that was more or less all about Sardine so far. | 22:42 |
| FireSt0rM | mgedmin: cool I'll give that a shot | 22:42 |
| carlosguerreiro | And we will be ready to allow commits once people show up with a good track record contributing to the HAF. And once we have fixed/opened up our development processes a bit more. I think it will happen, it's just a metter of time | 22:43 |
| carlosguerreiro | Btw, we have been committing some patches already | 22:43 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: could we write or update the how-to on contributing patches? i may know whom to contact, but not everybody here knows. | 22:44 |
| MDK | ferenc: the way to get patches now into haf is via bugzilla | 22:45 |
| ferenc | MDK: yes, i know, but this page http://maemo.org/community/getting-involved.html could be more up-to-date imho. | 22:45 |
| ferenc | we could "hire" some guys, who could do packaging for instance. | 22:46 |
| carlosguerreiro | And we really need to start shaping up haf.maemo.org | 22:46 |
| carlosguerreiro | that would be the starting point for the haf | 22:46 |
| MDK | ferenc: but on the other hand, there are no "trusted" contributors yet, at least not on my line of the trenches | 22:46 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: we agreed that instead of that we will have a hildon garage project, did not we? | 22:46 |
| carlosguerreiro | both would work. garage is fine too | 22:47 |
| carlosguerreiro | And easier to maintain, yeah | 22:47 |
| ferenc | MDK: yes, true. how could we generate more interest? | 22:47 |
| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: yes, i am waiting Luc to point the 1st HAF component that gets migrated to garage. | 22:48 |
| tko | hmm, how does midgard fit into all this? | 22:48 |
| ferenc | tko: midgard is the future and has little to do with garage. | 22:48 |
| carlosguerreiro | Ferenc, that's a separate issue. It would be good to have a project for the HAF overall, that would contain the starting pages | 22:49 |
| MDK | ferenc: we made a small "todo" list with luc regarding hildon-libs ie. I want to clean it up this week and publish on the mailing list | 22:49 |
| FireSt0rM | Nobody has any idea about getting cpan on the 770? | 22:49 |
| MDK | maybe someone gets interested, I'm ready to support such an effort | 22:49 |
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| ferenc | carlosguerreiro: yes, it is separate, but perhaps there are to many things on the plate for some of us ;) | 22:50 |
| saerdnaer | is it possible to fix this endless reboot problem? | 22:50 |
| carlosguerreiro | Well, one thing at a time, stuff gets done | 22:50 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: do you know a solution? | 22:50 |
| saerdnaer | not really | 22:50 |
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| saerdnaer | i have it since last we | 22:50 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: what have you done then? installed a plugin? | 22:51 |
| saerdnaer | perhaps | 22:51 |
| tko | ferenc, migration to garage is in the works, somewhere in the middle of API changes and documentation improvements and indentation fixes | 22:51 |
| saerdnaer | but the problem was that the mail application cased the device to reboot | 22:51 |
| MDK | tko: "indentation fixes" hehe | 22:51 |
| saerdnaer | i think the internal memory went full | 22:52 |
| ferenc | tko: sure. i am not pushing you at all ;) | 22:52 |
| saerdnaer | i wouldn't try to reflash it, because i don't want to lose my data | 22:52 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: well, the endless reboot is usually due to a service that can not be started at boot time. | 22:52 |
| saerdnaer | is there a way of reading the error messages? | 22:53 |
| saerdnaer | or boot in a rescue mode? | 22:53 |
| saerdnaer | eg another rootfs image form mmc? | 22:53 |
| saerdnaer | s/form/from | 22:53 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: yes, you could do a boot from MMC | 22:53 |
| saerdnaer | and were can i get such an image? | 22:53 |
| rev | does anyone know a way to bring up the software keyboard somehow via the command line? | 22:54 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineDistro for more info | 22:54 |
| tko | rev, for what? if there's no editable widget focused it would be useless | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | saerdnaer: have you perchance installed the weather applet? | 22:56 |
| rev | tko: good point ... it is for a non-hildon and non-gtk application. Squeak Smalltalk, specifically | 22:56 |
| rev | tko: do i need a focused widget, not just a window, to get that to work somehow? | 22:56 |
| saerdnaer | i don't know, it could be possible, because i don't reboot so often | 22:58 |
| rev | tko: is there any option to get that to work? other than using hildon/gtk or implementing a new soft input system myself? | 23:01 |
| tko | rev, things work automagically for gtk widgets. for everything else, see http://maemo.org/maemowiki/InputMethod for reverse engineered stuff | 23:01 |
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| rev | tko: thanks for the link! automagicness for gtk+ isn't an option, frankly- squeak smalltalk has it's own GUI tk that fills a window- not like python or something where you can just use GTK | 23:02 |
| rev | tko: though there is wxWidget support and i could maybe try porting that if it was the only option | 23:03 |
| rev | tko: but i'd rather be using the other toolkit (Morphic) | 23:03 |
| rev | though, writing a new soft-keyboard would be easy | 23:03 |
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| saerdnaer | ferenc: thanks for the link, looks like that i was searching for | 23:04 |
| saerdnaer | i will try this tomorrow | 23:04 |
| ferenc | saerdnaer: welcome | 23:05 |
| robtaylor | rev: mm, gnu smalltalk has gtk binings | 23:05 |
| rev | robtaylor: unless you know of a working, ready to go port of GST with gtk+ bindings for the nokia 770, i'd have to say that really isn't an option | 23:05 |
| rev | robtaylor: are the gtk+ bindings even usable on linux/x86? or just half-working? | 23:06 |
| rev | robtaylor: i've not used gst for a couple years, mind you... but gst is something that doesn't seem to get much work on it, with things breaking between point releases, etc. i never got it to compile on linux/ppc, though i think it works now. but still, there might be a bunch of problems to get it working on linux/arm | 23:06 |
| rev | robtaylor: also, i'm a smalltalk programmer- i only touch C if it is absolutely necesary. for me, it'd be a ton easier to write my own input system for squeak smalltalk than to try to port something like gst and it's gtk bindings to the nokia- it'd a take a lot less time (for me) as well. | 23:08 |
| rev | robtaylor: but if you have any news i'd be interested in hearing it! | 23:08 |
| robtaylor | rev: gst? | 23:13 |
| robtaylor | oh, gnu smalltalk | 23:13 |
| robtaylor | rev, i have no idea, but they're part of gst proper, so its worth just building it and see if it works | 23:13 |
| robtaylor | rev: the gtk on 770 is abi compatible with vanilla gtk, so there shouldn't be any issues | 23:14 |
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| rev | robtaylor: well, i'd give it a whack like you say, but i can't ... no access to a machine on which to bujild nokia770 apps. i'm trying to get that changed, but for now the only machine i have is a PPC Mac running OS X. unless you know of a place I can get an SSH account for doing n770 development? | 23:16 |
| rev | robtaylor: have you used it? i mean, is it usable? | 23:16 |
| robtaylor | rev: no, i havn't used it at all. | 23:17 |
| rev | robtaylor: ah ok. oh well. squeak compiled for the nokia770 with no problems, but the input thing is a problem. http://g-24.net/squeak/770.html | 23:18 |
| robtaylor | rev: you could also check out http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php/SqueakGtk | 23:20 |
| robtaylor | no guarantees about stability though =) | 23:20 |
| rev | oh, wow | 23:20 |
| rev | i've never heard of that actually | 23:20 |
| rev | robtaylor: i've been out of the active squeak scene for the last 3 years... i still was coding and using it, but not reading the squeak-dev list. interesting. | 23:21 |
| rev | thanks for pointing that out to me. i mean, i know it is on eof those "umm, google it you n00b!" but i've not heard of the project, so it wouldn't have occured to me | 23:21 |
| rev | we do have wxWidgets for Squeak and that works pretty well | 23:21 |
| robtaylor | yeha, thats another option- use the gtk backend for wxwidgets.. should work | 23:22 |
| rev | robtaylor: but if i can get SqueakGtk working i'll buy you a beer... it would solve a few problems at once! i prefer Morphic- Squeak's default GUI toolkit- but it is slow on the 220 MHz Nokia. Not actually that slow, but still not as fast (duh) as on a 400-600 MHz XScale'd Linux or CE PDA, both of which run Squeak+Morphic well | 23:23 |
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| robtaylor | rev: good luck :) | 23:35 |
| rev | robtaylor: thanks! | 23:38 |
| carlosguerreiro | MDK, forget about msmtp. python in scratchbox comes with an smtp module. simple :-) | 23:38 |
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| MDK | carlosguerreiro: cool! That thought crossed my mind, but I guessed it relies on sendmail implementation | 23:42 |
| florian | hi carlosguerreiro | 23:42 |
| carlosguerreiro | Hi florian | 23:46 |
| carlosguerreiro | MDK. Well, it works for me, just tried it :-) | 23:46 |
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| saerdnaer | n8 | 23:53 |
| rev | yo saerdnaer | 23:55 |
| keesj | rev, I would be very happy with wxWidgets hildon support | 23:58 |
| rev | keesj: for squeak or in general? | 23:59 |
| keesj | no in general (Ruby wxRuby for me) | 23:59 |
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