IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2006-10-25

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_matthias_anyone ever used one of those?
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tigertmyren: that "330" "photo" doesnt look like a nokia device at all09:01
tigertits like someone took a tomtom or such and photoshopped the logo there09:01
tigertmorning by the way09:01
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spaetzmorning tigert09:08
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saimonnHi all10:44
JaffaMorning, all10:48
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AD-N770good morning from Barcelona11:15
_follower__nice day again to make us jealous? :-)11:16
inzVery good morning from cold and rainy Tampere!11:36
glass_it's cold and rainy here? damn11:37
glass_maybe i should open the curtains11:37
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inzglass_, well. it's actually hasn't been raining for a couple of hours11:56
inzglass_, and it's not _that_ cold either, but there was a nasty wind at around 911:56
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mlpugwhat is sapwood? (cant find understandable answer by googling)12:02
inzmlpug, a pixmap caching server and gtk theme engine12:05
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mlpuginz, is it maemo specific or used elsewhere as well. is there some website elaborating that animal12:19
inzmlplug, maemo specific, and afaik there's no website12:19
mlpugok. tnx. that explains that googling did not provide answers easily to these questions. see u later.12:20
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inztigert, just tested out geopress, it decided, that I am in the middle of the Näsijärvi.13:29
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tigertyou typed "tampere"?13:48
tigertits probably the reference point of the city13:48
inztigert, I wrote the whole address13:49
tigertwell, you can click the map too13:49
tigertand point it there by hand13:50
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inztigert, map? (there's probably something wrong w/ my geopost installation then)14:28
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tigertinz: you need a google maps key there in the config15:48
tigertthen it shows you a google map embedded in the post editor15:48
inzah, ok15:49
inztigert, got it working, thx15:54
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e-vocis this channel about
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e-vocokay, is there a posibility to deactivate the wlan device to save power?17:21
nomise-voc: it gets disabled when you enter "flight mode".17:21
inze-voc, aka. offline mode17:22
inze-voc, from the power key menu17:22
nomise-voc: press the power button. A menu comes up that allows you to enable "flight mode" - emit as few radiation as possible when being on the plane...17:22
e-vochrm, never seen that17:23
Jaffae-voc: also, if you're disconnected it shouldn't use any power.17:23
e-vocyeah, kust when i'm online/connected with my nokia cellphone via BT17:24
Jaffanomis: "offline mode" only stops you from going online, doesn't it? The normal power mgmt shouldn't be any worse unless you're actively using a particular bit.17:24
nomisJaffa: well, offline mode also disables bluetooth. If you need this you probably have to rely on the power management of the 770 to switch off the unused wlan stuff.17:25
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e-vocwhere can i find [CTRL] or [ALT] key?17:28
nomise-voc: xterm has an menu entry for CTRL-keys.17:28
nomisunfortunately it is not on the on-screen keyboard.17:29
e-voci have xterm installed, i'll check that, thanks17:29
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inze-voc, in terminals you can emulate alt-key (most of the time) with the "cancel" key17:42
e-vochow that?17:43
inze-voc, for example in irssi you can press "cancel", followed by window number, and the window changes17:43
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e-vocaha, that's nice, i use irssi but one channel ;)17:43
inze-voc, cancel is the key below the rocker key, the "reverse G"17:44
e-voccancel being escape key?17:44
inzThat's what it's bound to17:44
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inzquite logical17:44
e-vocaye :)17:44
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nomiswell, <Esc>-<number> works for irssi on regular terminals too  :)17:46
inznomis, and in some terminals using alt does not work at all ;)17:48
inznomis, or only works for numbers (for example SSH's windows Secure Shell client)17:48
e-vocare there maemo developers around?17:48
e-vocapplication devs17:48
inzWhat do you mean by maemo developers?17:48
e-vocwriting apps17:49
inzWell, I'm maintaining the apps in maemo-hackers-repository17:49
inzMost of them aren't originally written by me, but anyway17:49
e-vocnice :)17:50
e-voci'm quite a noob with the nokia77017:50
e-vocat least i made it to get root mode ;)17:50
inze-voc, then you oughta dive head-first to developing apps, that should teach you ;P17:50
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JaffaHmm, Marius' email to maemo-dev is interesting.17:59
koenJaffa: +118:09
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X-Fade_It would be nice if they just put the new version of the AI in the repository. So can update your image instead of flashing a new image.18:10
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foopIs there a gcc package available for the 770? I can find gcc in a repository but the installation fais because i can't find gcc-base anywhere18:30
dpbYou don't want gcc on the 770.18:31
e-vocfoop: i'm a noob, but i think i read something about x-compilers18:32
e-vocso you compile your software on a x86 targetting the arm with that crosscompiler18:32
e-vocanyone may correct me :)18:33
foopOk thanx i found something for crosscompiling but i want gcc on my nokia for compiling my own small apps18:33
foopOn the nokia18:34
Jaffafoop: you'd be better off porting lcc or somesuch, I imagine.18:34
Jaffakoen: it seems no-one agrees ;-/18:34
koenJaffa: it shows nokia is only good at making uninformed smart-ass comments18:35
foopOk... But why is there a gcc package without the gcc-base package available via the packagemanagement tol?18:36
dpbReally, you do not want gcc on it. The device has too little memory for it.18:37
dpbUse Scratchbox.18:38
mgedminmy, how have times changed18:38
mgedminthe laptop I bought in 2000 had less memory and less CPU power than the 77018:39
mgedmingcc ran on it, IIRC18:39
foopbefore i used rthe nokia i wrote small programs on a hp jornada18:39
mgedminalthough it didn't run a full X + Gtk environment at the same time18:39
mgedminso the comparison is not truly accurate18:39
foopThis one is much older than the nokia18:40
thaineven if you can do something, doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a better way :)18:40
foopIts not neccessary that 770 can comoile 10000 lines of code just for very small apps18:41
thainanyway, i think the question is no.18:41
thainyou can try to squeeze arm-debian's gcc in or cross-compile it yourself.18:42
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thainmgedmin: your laptop probably had a bigger hard disk than the 770 :D18:43
mgedminwell, not really... 1.2 gb out of which only 750 were in my Linux partition18:43
mgedminmy 770 has a 1 GB rs-mmc card + 128 mb builtin flash18:44
mgedminand the laptop had a 640x480 screen18:44
thainright, if you use a memory card18:44
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foopSearch for the specs of a jornada 720 i run x and i am compiling code at the same time, of course it runs netbsd^^18:46
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Jaffakoen: interesting to see that Marius is doing what I'd thought he'd intended which is to say "well, not that I'm *promosing* a maintenance release at any point"(paraphrased)18:54
koennokia should stop with all that cloak and dagger shit18:55
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* X-Fade gets his chair to watch the flame wars ;)19:10
ian_brasilthat is like asking Micro$oft to release source code maybe19:14
glass_they're big enough to have cloak and dagger shit in-house19:16
ian_brasilwell nokia lawyers have to do something i guess19:17
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tkokoen should discuss with ari about such things19:18
JaffaX-Fade: I'm resisting the temptation to further reply.19:18
Jaffatko: what, about the rudeness of his employees on mailing lists?19:18
glass_yeah them and the managers stabbing each others projects and pushing their own with expensive multimedia productions just couple of people see19:19
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tkorudeness is in the eye of the beholder, or something19:24
tkoseemed pretty lame compared to debian or lkml19:25
sage--redness is also in the eye of bongholder19:25
Jaffatko: yes, but 1) is representing a supplier/customer relationship; 2) the questions obviously weren't stupid (as stated) because of Marius' further clarification.19:27
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ferenchi all19:29
koenhey ferenc19:29
tkohmm, I'm pretty sure I had something not important to ask ferenc, but now can't recall what it might be...19:30
ferenctko: i'm gonna be around tonigh in case you remember19:31
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ferenci wanted to tell about one thing at least19:33
ferenci am not sure if Marius was here earlier and mentioned the .install files.19:34
ferenc(Marius is the maintainer of the Application Manager, just in case..)19:34
ferencso, the App Manager in OS 2006 can deal with some special .install files.19:35
ferenci show you an example:19:35
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ferencrepo_name = mistral-extras19:36
ferencrepo_deb  = deb mistral free non-free19:36
ferencpackage   = maemo-mapper19:36
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ferencso if you feed this file to App Manager, then it will update its source.list and install the package in question.19:37
ferencMarius suggested that we could gradually update the ApplicationCatalog2006 page.19:37
ferencand introduce this idea to the public.19:37
ferencthe support of .install is not perfect,  but you can always get the latest AppManager either from Sardine, or by recompiling the sources ;)19:38
ferencWhat do you guys think?19:38
tkoferenc, I may have been thinking about getting screen+irssi account on, but I think that's not it either :)19:42
_follower__on a completely different note, 770s really do make great torches... :-)19:45
ferenctko: and my answer will be, sorry, but that's not feasible.19:45
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Tak_follower__: are you sure you used enough oil?19:45
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ferenctko: i promised Carlos to figure out something, i am working on it.19:45
tkoferenc, ok, cool19:46
_follower__Tak: heh19:47
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koen'proper maintenance plan'20:12
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keesj_follower__, yea , great torches20:34
keesjferenc, where should that .install be located?20:35
ferenckeesj: it could be on any server20:36
keesjI would just like a mime-type for repositories and themes20:36
ferenconly requirement is that the web server should serve it with proper MIME type20:36
ferenckeesj: i know nothing about themes20:37
keesjhmm the package  fields is also strange20:37
ferencthe MIME type for the .install is : application/x-install-instructions20:38
keesjbecause I hope that one repository will host different packages20:39
keesjand if both are in the same file this will lead to problems20:39
keesjthe install file then performs 2 steps20:39
keesjso I am +1 for a  application/x-debian-repository and a application/x-install-instructions with only repo name + package20:40
ferenckeesj: i am lost, could you pls elaborate it a bit?20:41
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ferenckeesj: i think i got you. well, you can add the .install to your homepage. you don't need to setup a Debian repository, just use an existing one.20:46
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ferenckeesj: on the other hand i don't see right now benefit in having a MIME type for a repository20:48
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FireSt0rMHey, I've still been looking for a way to set up aliases for ash on the 770, but still haven't managed to get it to work20:50
FireSt0rMDoes anyone have this working?20:50
mgedminosso-xterm from maemo-hackers doesn't spawn a login shell and doesn't therefore read ~/.profile20:51
mgedminI'm still eagerly awaiting a fix20:51
FireSt0rMCuz some commands take a long time to type20:52
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FireSt0rMIt works if you su20:53
FireSt0rMJust not the default shell you get when you launch it20:53
keesjferenc, the repository name is not even unique right?20:56
ferenckeesj: it is not even important as far as understood Marius.20:57
ferenckeesj: that name is only used somewhere in the UI, maybe a caption of a window.20:58
ferenc"The "repo_name" entry is optional.  If you omit it, the repository will have no name.  The name of a repository is only used in the UI; it has no effect on functionality."20:58
ferencquoted from:
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keesjferenc, yes, so it is very easy to replace the #maemo:essential repository :)21:02
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keesjbut I don't think this is a problem. if people like me want to install a .deb file , that file can "screw" up anyway21:03
ferenckeesj: exactly. none cares about the essential repo anyway ;)21:04
keesjMy only point is that the install does 2 separate thing, it might even install a repository and download from somewhere else21:05
keesjbut it's pretty easy to write good dialogs for handling adding/changing/removing repositories21:06
ferencyes, true.21:06
ferencif there are two repos configured and both have package 'x' then the App Manager will only pick the latest version.21:07
keesjthat is just the way debian works, we can't change that right?21:08
ferenci don't think we want to change it.21:08
keesjbut the tone on the mailing list is quite hard21:10
ferencwhat do you mean?21:10
keesj"smartass replies"21:12
keesjon the mailing list21:12
keesjbut I would like to know the future of maemo:)21:13
koenthere might be a future, but nokia is not sure yet21:13
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keesjanyway I am having a great time learing stuff.21:18
keesjbut I can imagine that the current maemo if quite heavy for most devices21:19
X-FadeAnd I am amazed how you can have so much fun with something trivial as a LCARS theme ;)21:20
* mgedmin wonders what "LCARS" means21:20
X-FadeLibrary Computer Access and Retrieval System21:21
keesjX-Fade, your doing a 770 library project?21:22
Taklcars = trek geek theme21:22
X-FadeYou guys haven't been reading the planet I guess ;)21:23
* keesj is already on wikipedia21:23
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tkonice sound effects :)21:25
tkooh btw, who's packaging the lcars sounds? I might know how to package is so that you don't need a separate package to restore original sounds21:26
X-FadeThere is a little problem with the chat program. As that has a black text color as default ;)21:26
X-Fadetko: This is the author:
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X-FadeHow are the maemo-theme-tools coming along? I see a lot of work in svn?21:29
X-FadeEven a template regenerator, to create a template from sliced image files :) That is pretty sweet!21:30
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ferenckoen: we are just about loosing Devesh who took care of the roadmap.21:32
ferencunfortunately he leaves the team21:33
koenferenc: I heard about him going to symbian-land21:33
ferencand yes, we suck on communicating about the future.21:33
ferencmany of us is scared or don't even know what we are supposed to say and what not.21:33
ferencthat is the fact.21:33
ferencthe proposal of having a community liaison is one option.21:34
ferencbut in my opinion all the key developers (like tko) should join this channel and write smartass comments like David did today.21:35
ferenceven a smartass comment is better then nothing.21:35
koenactually no21:36
X-Fadeferenc: Comments mean that people are actively using your product.21:36
* tko is waiting for his account to get here during the day21:36
ferenckoen: OK, we could argue about the tone21:36
koenferenc: like I said if nokia can only give smartass comments you loose a great deal of goodwill21:36
MDKnokia is a huge beast, you know21:37
koenferenc: especially if marius is going to contradict david later on21:37
ferenckoen: yes, true. but we are all different (luckily) and sometimes we have good/bad days.21:37
keesjon the other hand how hard should one be21:37
X-Fadeferenc: I don't think this particular Nokia employee looks very proffesional if insults someone without reason.21:38
keesjbut if everything else fails, take time to read the Career programmer guerilla tactics
ferencX-Fade: as I said everybody is different and I am sure david just had a bad day, or a bad moment.21:39
MDKX-Fade: maemo-theme-tools are doing good21:39
keesjit's a great book that helps understand politics :)21:39
mgedmin"professional" reminds me of
MDKX-Fade: we've got lots of stuff coming21:39
MDKwe'll blogging about this soon I hope21:39
X-Fadeferenc: Sometimes you got to set your own personality aside ;)21:39
FireSt0rMHow can one get cpan installed on the 770?21:39
X-FadeMDK: It looks pretty sweet :)21:40
FireSt0rMI'd like to be able to run some perl scripts21:40
MDKX-Fade: yeah, tigert is working on something really cool too ;)21:40
tkoI think I counted 6 nokians here.. just need to get our bosses demand more irc time from us :)21:40
* mgedmin imagines seeing nicks 'nokian1' through 'nokian6' in the user list21:41
ferencX-Fade: what do you exactly mean?21:41
MDKthere will be a new cool community theme soon21:41
Takcould suffix your nick with _nokian ;-)21:41
MDKtango-theme of course21:41
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X-Fadeferenc: If you write from a @nokia account, you voice the opinion of your employer?21:42
ferenctak: no way. i am here, because i wanted to be here and i ensure you i am not paid for this chatting right now.21:42
ferencX-Fade: no21:42
* Tak shrugs21:42
TakI didn't mean because you're forced to be here and are being paid21:42
X-Fadeferenc: I think it makes Nokia look bad if you do that. But maybe that is just me ;)21:42
ferencTak: you would like to know who is who?21:43
Takwell - it helps give one an idea of who's not speaking from their anal orifice21:43
TakI personally don't really care21:44
ferencX-Fade: well, you are right to some extent. but keep in mind the human factor.21:44
ferenci am not here to defend david on anybody else, but come on, don't make such conclusions from one single email.21:45
X-Fadeferenc: Well I don't care about it much. But imagine someone searching for something and finding such a message via google.21:45
X-FadeBut lets not make it bigger than it is :D21:46
ferencyes, that is scary. but taking sentences out of context is always dangerous.21:46
tkodavid is debian developer so I wouldn't be surprised to find much more inflammatory material from other lists :)21:46
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ferencso, about .install: shall we somehow change the Applicationcatalog2006 page?21:47
X-Fadeferenc: Does it work for current AI versions?21:47
ferencor shall i hack the .install creation into the extras repo, so when you upload a package the .install will be created automagically?21:47
keesjferenc, if the app is not in a repository .deb is just fine not?21:48
ferencX-Fade: yes, it does, but as Marius writes in that text file: it is not supported ;)21:48
ferenckeesj: yes, it is perfectly fine.21:48
X-Fadeferenc: Well, you are about to introduce it :) So it must work..21:48
X-FadeYou can only introduce it once..21:48
keesjwhat is perfectly fine ? me ?21:49
tkooh, are we planning to handle different states of stability for packages as brought up on mailing list?21:49
ferenckeesj:you are probably fine too, but the app outside the repo, i meant.21:49
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* nokian1 claiming ownership21:49
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Guard][an(no i'm not from nokia)21:49
X-Fadetko: Do you think you can add a safe-mode to the desktop? Holding home while booting near the end of the progress bar?21:49
ferencX-Fade: it has been introduced long ago when Marius put the .txt file to stage.21:50
ferencit is just one thing that no one has noticed21:50
ferencthe support of .install is going to improve.21:50
tkoX-Fade, define safe mode?21:50
X-Fadetko: So you can escape a 'white screen of death' when a plugin does wierd things..21:50
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ferencif you check out the latest sources from stage you will see.21:50
tkoX-Fade, if an applet crashes during loading m-a-d should notice and not load it the next time21:51
keesjit doens't .21:51
X-Fadetko: How do you explain the while desktop problem then?21:51
keesjnot on it200621:51
X-FadeOr the endless reboots?21:51
keesjthanks for the talk.21:52
tkoit doesn't crash during init but slightly later?21:52
ferenckeesj: ahh, sorry. i got youwrong.21:53
ferenckeesj: one should have the app in a debian repo if you want to use .install.21:53
X-Fadetko, desktop is completely white. The power button popup does work.21:53
keesjferenc, yes , that is what I was trying to say21:53
ferenckeesj: sorry, i just did not get it.21:53
ferenckeesj: but you can get upload rights of you join garage with your project.21:55
keesjI have been "invided" for the garage repository.21:56
ian_brasil a bit of the problem maybe is the size of Nokia in that people are spread all over21:56
* ferenc is from the PR dept of garage ;)21:56
ian_brasilmaybe we need scheduled team meetings on IRC like ubuntu do21:56
ferencian_brasil: well, the core team is pretty much centralized at one place.21:56
keesjbut as non debian developer it's quite hard. so I have setup a deb repository , and am trying to learn about the gpg stuff21:56
ferencian_brasil: Carlos has an action point on that, AFAIK21:56
ian_brasil#maemo-meeting sounds cool21:57
ferenckeesj: learning takes some time, true, but it worth it.21:57
tkoferenc, that would be great!21:57
ferenctko: yes, but what will be discuss? we need an agenda.21:57
ferencand a person who drives that.21:58
ian_brasilferenc: you talking about manaus cause if you are no-one there has IRC acccess AFAIK21:58
tkoI'm sure there would be enough topics to discuss if we had someone driving the whole thing21:58
ferencian_brasil: ah, OK. i was not talking about Helsinki and Tampere21:59
ferenctko: you are right.21:59
tkojust by someone going around the teams and checking up what's cooking currently would give an agenda for a month or so :)21:59
Guard][anhmm is every project added to garage available from application manager ??? or does the project owner need to make it available ?22:00
ferencian_brasil: i mean i was talking about those towns... damn, i am sleepy..22:00
ferencGuard][an: a garage admin can get privileges to upload to the "extras" repository and hence make the application available for the app manager.22:01
ferenctko: not a bad idea.22:01
ferenctko: and it does not require 8 hours a day :)22:01
TakI should get around to that22:02
Guard][anferenc: ok thx, i expected to be able to install the rotozoom stuff demo through the app manager but it seems it's not available :)22:02
X-Fadetko: And add your open items list to the agenda and we have a lot to talk about ;)22:02
tkoand if you happen to run out of ideas, just announce a meeting is scheduled at <date> and there's no other agenda than what community proposes22:03
ian_brasilok, while we are on this why not start up some maemo sprints as well22:03
ian_brasilfor nokia guys to get together and some community heads to get involved too22:04
* ian_brasil with sponshorhip of course :)22:04
ferencGuard][an: i can invite the owner of the n770demos project to become an extras uploader. let's see if he accepts it.22:05
ian_brasilhere is a good example
ferencian_brasil: we should enable easier contributions before organizing such an event22:07
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tkofor haf we should be pretty much ready22:08
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ian_brasilwhat do you mean?...just create a project on the garage and upload your .deb or have i missed something here22:08
ferenctko: yes, for Hildon you can actually take and apply contributed patches etc.22:08
tkothough it hasn't been tested in practice that much.. lazy community :)22:08
ferencyou could even invite people to your projects, once you move them to garage ;)22:09
X-FadeBut is Sardine usable these days? :)22:09
ferenctko: i am still waiting for the 1st Haf project to be migrated from stage to garage.22:09
tkoI wouldn't care much where it is hosted22:10
tkoI consider the content more important (though, yes, we're lacking there as well)22:10
ferenctko: the place of hosting matters if you want to make it widely available.22:10
ferencof course Sardine makes things a lot easier for testing22:11
ferencbut again, what is the point if we do not let people closer to the source and not let them mess around together with us?22:12
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ferencwelcome Carlos!22:12
X-Fadeferenc: It left my device in an un-bootable state a few times ;)22:12
MDKferenc: what do you mean by "messing around"?22:12
tkoyou only need a good enough starting page and then follow the links, and the links could be on stage or whereever22:12
ferencnow you can ask all questions about sardine ;)22:12
carlosguerreiroI will add the answers to the FAQ22:13
tkoeven if it's in garage, you need to know what to look for22:13
X-Fadecarlos knows that Sardine was broken more than once ;)22:13
ferencMDK: grant commit rights to some guys who showed that they are able to contribute to a certain Haf module for instance.22:13
MDKferenc: ah. Definitelly, I agree22:13
ferenctko: yes, true.22:13
robtaylorcarlosguerreiro: dude :)22:14
ferencand we made a picture about Haf 3 weeks ago.22:14
ferencthat picture could serve as a map.22:14
FireSt0rMAnyone know why, wheneve I try to scp stuff onto the 770, it stalls about halfway through, and the 770 reboots?22:14
carlosguerreiroFor the last couple of weeks sardine has been broken most of the time. the problem is that I was away from it from too long and sardine still relies on me to bug people to quickly fix problems :-(22:14
ferencand it could be on the front page of the "hildon" garage project for instance.22:14
tkoright, we need tigert to make it tango =)22:15
carlosguerreiroI'm not back in force22:15
X-Fadecarlosguerreiro: It would help if Nokia people actually used Sardine ;)22:15
X-FadeSpotting that it was broken was not that hard.22:15
MDKtko: don't interrupt tigert, he's working hard on good stuff already ;)22:15
tkoit would also help if there was a mail or something complaining when things break.. I never remember to check the status page22:15
tkoMDK, oh, heh..22:16
MDKgstreamer guys have a smart bot that complains on irc if things break22:16
mgedminFireSt0rM: how much stuff?22:16
ferenctko: about the map thingy. i can do an initial version, but you need a guy from your team who will maintain it.22:16
mgedminmaybe it runs out of memory?22:16
carlosguerreiroYeah, that's on my todo list. I'll actually add to the the tracker22:16
FireSt0rMOnly 5MB22:17
MDKbut e-mail notification would be more usefull22:17
FireSt0rMand I copy directly to the MMC22:17
FireSt0rMIt should have plenty of memory22:17
Takankh svn has a similar bot22:17
tkoferenc, can't promise maintenance, but luc is working on a bigger picture sort of things atm22:17
carlosguerreiroYou know, there's one issue that's being making me think twice about implementing those email notifications22:17
tkoIMHO things that deserve attention should be more widely pushed.. like our dailywtf :)22:18
ferenctko: luc is working on it for a long time already, i know.22:18
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MDKbut the bot would not solve the most important problems I guess22:18
carlosguerreiroThere are intermitent (in some cases frequent) build failures due to problems in scratchbox/QEMU :-(. That would result in quite a few emails22:19
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revahoy! anyone know if there is a way to call up the soft keyboard from a program using D-BUS?22:19
MDKit's easy spot compilation problems22:19
MDKbut the current issues are "functionality problems"22:19
MDKor rarther "runtime problems"22:19
tkocarlosguerreiro, just forward those to sbox/qemu maintainers and they should either fix sbox/qemu or set up a mail filter =)22:19
carlosguerreiroMisha says he's done that already. Yeah, the email filter will do it. Hopefully people will not filter all the emails though ;-)22:21
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carlosguerreiroBtw, can somebody suggest the easiest way to send email from inside scratchbox?22:22
MDKhmm, I guess a lightweight smtp agent would do22:23
MDKlike msmtp22:23
carlosguerreiroAny volunteer to package that in garage?22:23
MDKAFAIK it has little dependencies22:23
MDKI can try22:23
mgedminFireSt0rM: no idea then; I've scp'ed larger files without problems22:24
FireSt0rMIt's weird, I've tried it several times, it always reboots22:24
carlosguerreiroAbout the soft keyboard activation. tko, should one be able to do that by setting the focus on a text widget?22:24
tkocarlosguerreiro, oh, I meant to ask you to reply to the 'end user roadmap' mail in maemo-developers.. I recall you mentioned here you'd do that?22:25
tkonormally I'd wait until next week before starting to hunt down people, but... :)22:26
carlosguerreiroYes, I'm still going to do that, but you know, a day has only 24 hours and I need to sleep 8 ;-). It's not a simple reply22:26
tkoI'm not sure how to prevent the vkb from going away. Tomas was replying to it yesterday (I think) but I forgot to read it22:27
tkocarlosguerreiro, sure, that's all I wanted to hear22:27
FireSt0rMohh... could it be that my computer is sending out too fast?22:28
FireSt0rMWhat if I scp from the nokia?22:28
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tkoFireSt0rM, have you tried copying in to the internal flash? might be something funny going on with mmc driver22:31
mgedminFireSt0rM: have you seen the wiki page about debugging reboot problems?22:31
FireSt0rMtko: yeah, same thing happens :-/22:31
FireSt0rMNo havent seen that one22:31
FireSt0rMDoes anyone else's mplayer not show video? for AVIs?22:31
Takthat happens to me too if I copy largish files directly to the n77022:33
FireSt0rMbootreason says "32wd_to"22:33
FireSt0rMHow large is largish?22:33
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Takover a few M iirc22:34
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FireSt0rMHmm same22:34
TakI got a $10 mmc reader22:34
FireSt0rMwd32_to: Watchdog reset - something was consuming too much CPU causing a watchdog reset22:35
FireSt0rMLemme try scping directly on the nokia to my computer22:35
Takbefore that, I wrote a little c program to copy files slowly, and that seemed to resolve it22:35
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FireSt0rMYeah, that's what I think is happening... it's copying too fast for the processor to take it22:36
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carlosguerreiroCan somebody summarize the points about Sardine I missed in the discussion?22:37
FireSt0rMDoes mplayer read AVI files fine for most ppl?22:38
FireSt0rMThe Video player doesn't22:38
ferenccarlosguerreiro: there were questions about its usability.22:38
Takthe video player is very particular about the format of avi files22:38
ferencdoes it work on a 770 right now.22:38
FireSt0rMTak: How about mplayer?22:39
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Takmplayer in general is nonpicky22:39
X-Fadecarlosguerreiro: That it has been too unstable to actually test it properly.22:39
FireSt0rMit plays the file... cuz I can HEAR the sound22:40
FireSt0rMbut I get no video output22:40
ferenccarlosguerreiro: and of course Sardine makes things a lot easier for testing, but could people easily contribute patches?22:40
mgedminFireSt0rM: I believe I have something in my ~/.ssh/config that chooses a different crypto algorithm22:40
mgedminit may be easier on the CPU22:40
ferenccarlosguerreiro: is your team ready to take patches and apply them or even allow some people to commit to the code itself?22:40
FireSt0rMThat could be what's contributing to CPU usage22:40
mgedminCipher blowfish22:40
FireSt0rMCuz copying isn't really CPU intensive I thought22:40
carlosguerreiroWe are more than ready to take patches.22:40
mgedminlet me put it in context:22:40
mgedminmy laptop's ~/.ssh/config has a 'Host mg-nokia\nUser user\nCipher blowfish' entry22:41
FireSt0rMTak: Thanks!22:41
mgedminand ssh/scp encrypt everything, which may be CPU intensive22:41
ferenccarlosguerreiro: that was more or less all about Sardine so far.22:42
FireSt0rMmgedmin: cool I'll give that a shot22:42
carlosguerreiroAnd we will be ready to allow commits once people show up with a good track record contributing to the HAF. And once we have fixed/opened up our development processes a bit more. I think it will happen, it's just a metter of time22:43
carlosguerreiroBtw, we have been committing some patches already22:43
ferenccarlosguerreiro: could we write or update the how-to on contributing patches? i may know whom to contact, but not everybody here knows.22:44
MDKferenc: the way to get patches now into haf is via bugzilla22:45
ferencMDK: yes, i know, but this page could be more up-to-date imho.22:45
ferencwe could "hire" some guys, who could do packaging for instance.22:46
carlosguerreiroAnd we really need to start shaping up haf.maemo.org22:46
carlosguerreirothat would be the starting point for the haf22:46
MDKferenc: but on the other hand, there are no "trusted" contributors yet, at least not on my line of the trenches22:46
ferenccarlosguerreiro: we agreed that instead of that we will have a hildon garage project, did not we?22:46
carlosguerreiroboth would work. garage is fine too22:47
carlosguerreiroAnd easier to maintain, yeah22:47
ferencMDK: yes, true. how could we generate more interest?22:47
ferenccarlosguerreiro: yes, i am waiting Luc to point the 1st HAF component that gets migrated to garage.22:48
tkohmm, how does midgard fit into all this?22:48
ferenctko: midgard is the future and has little to do with garage.22:48
carlosguerreiroFerenc, that's a separate issue. It would be good to have a project for the HAF overall, that would contain the starting pages22:49
MDKferenc: we made a small "todo" list with luc regarding hildon-libs ie. I want to clean it up this week and publish on the mailing list22:49
FireSt0rMNobody has any idea about getting cpan on the 770?22:49
MDKmaybe someone gets interested, I'm ready to support such an effort22:49
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ferenccarlosguerreiro: yes, it is separate, but perhaps there are to many things on the plate for some of us ;)22:50
saerdnaeris it possible to fix this  endless reboot problem?22:50
carlosguerreiro Well, one thing at a time, stuff gets done22:50
ferencsaerdnaer: do you know a solution?22:50
saerdnaernot really22:50
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saerdnaeri have it since last we22:50
ferencsaerdnaer: what have you done then? installed a plugin?22:51
tkoferenc, migration to garage is in the works, somewhere in the middle of API changes and documentation improvements and indentation fixes22:51
saerdnaerbut the problem was that the mail application cased the device to reboot22:51
MDKtko: "indentation fixes" hehe22:51
saerdnaeri think the internal memory went full22:52
ferenctko: sure. i am not pushing you at all ;)22:52
saerdnaeri wouldn't try to reflash it, because i don't want to lose my data22:52
ferencsaerdnaer: well, the endless reboot is usually due to a service that can not be started at boot time.22:52
saerdnaeris there a way of reading the error messages?22:53
saerdnaeror boot in a rescue mode?22:53
saerdnaereg another rootfs image form mmc?22:53
ferencsaerdnaer: yes, you could do a boot from MMC22:53
saerdnaerand were can i get such an image?22:53
revdoes anyone know a way to bring up the software keyboard somehow via the command line?22:54
ferencsaerdnaer: for more info22:54
tkorev, for what? if there's no editable widget focused it would be useless22:55
mgedminsaerdnaer: have you perchance installed the weather applet?22:56
revtko: good point ... it is for a non-hildon and non-gtk application. Squeak Smalltalk, specifically22:56
revtko: do i need a focused widget, not just a window, to get that to work somehow?22:56
saerdnaeri don't know, it could be possible, because i don't reboot so often22:58
revtko: is there any option to get that to work? other than using hildon/gtk or implementing a new soft input system myself?23:01
tkorev, things work automagically for gtk widgets. for everything else, see for reverse engineered stuff23:01
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revtko: thanks for the link! automagicness for gtk+ isn't an option, frankly- squeak smalltalk has it's own GUI tk that fills a window- not like python or something where you can just use GTK23:02
revtko: though there is wxWidget support and i could maybe try porting that if it was the only option23:03
revtko: but i'd rather be using the other toolkit (Morphic)23:03
revthough, writing a new soft-keyboard would be easy23:03
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saerdnaerferenc: thanks for the link, looks like that i was searching for23:04
saerdnaeri will try this tomorrow23:04
ferencsaerdnaer: welcome23:05
robtaylorrev: mm, gnu smalltalk has gtk binings23:05
revrobtaylor: unless you know of a working, ready to go port of GST with gtk+ bindings for the nokia 770, i'd have to say that really isn't an option23:05
revrobtaylor: are the gtk+ bindings even usable on linux/x86? or just half-working?23:06
revrobtaylor: i've not used gst for a couple years, mind you... but gst is something that doesn't seem to get much work on it, with things breaking between point releases, etc. i never got it to compile on linux/ppc, though i think it works now. but still, there might be a bunch of problems to get it working on linux/arm23:06
revrobtaylor: also, i'm a smalltalk programmer- i only touch C if it is absolutely necesary. for me, it'd be a ton easier to write my own input system for squeak smalltalk than to try to port something like gst and it's gtk bindings to the nokia- it'd a take a lot less time (for me) as well.23:08
revrobtaylor: but if you have any news i'd be interested in hearing it!23:08
robtaylorrev: gst?23:13
robtayloroh, gnu smalltalk23:13
robtaylorrev, i have no idea, but they're part of gst proper, so its worth just building it and see if it works23:13
robtaylorrev: the gtk on 770 is abi compatible with vanilla gtk, so there shouldn't be any issues23:14
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revrobtaylor: well, i'd give it a whack like you say, but i can't ... no access to a machine on which to bujild nokia770 apps. i'm trying to get that changed, but for now the only machine i have is a PPC Mac running OS X. unless you know of a place I can get an SSH account for doing n770 development?23:16
revrobtaylor: have you used it? i mean, is it usable?23:16
robtaylorrev: no, i havn't used it at all.23:17
revrobtaylor: ah ok. oh well. squeak compiled for the nokia770 with no problems, but the input thing is a problem.
robtaylorrev: you could also check out
robtaylorno guarantees about stability though =)23:20
revoh, wow23:20
revi've never heard of that actually23:20
revrobtaylor:  i've been out of the active squeak scene for the last 3 years... i still was coding and using it, but not reading the squeak-dev list.  interesting.23:21
revthanks for pointing that out to me. i mean, i know it is on eof those "umm, google it you n00b!" but i've not heard of the project, so it wouldn't have occured to me23:21
revwe do have wxWidgets for Squeak and that works pretty well23:21
robtayloryeha, thats another option- use the gtk backend for wxwidgets.. should work23:22
revrobtaylor: but if i can get SqueakGtk working i'll buy you a beer... it would solve a few problems at once! i prefer Morphic- Squeak's default GUI toolkit- but it is slow on the 220 MHz Nokia. Not actually that slow, but still not as fast (duh) as on a 400-600 MHz XScale'd Linux or CE PDA, both of which run Squeak+Morphic well23:23
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robtaylorrev: good luck :)23:35
revrobtaylor: thanks!23:38
carlosguerreiroMDK, forget about msmtp. python in scratchbox comes with an smtp module. simple :-)23:38
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MDKcarlosguerreiro: cool! That thought crossed my mind, but I guessed it relies on sendmail implementation23:42
florianhi carlosguerreiro23:42
carlosguerreiroHi florian23:46
carlosguerreiroMDK. Well, it works for me, just tried it :-)23:46
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revyo saerdnaer23:55
keesjrev, I would be very happy with wxWidgets hildon support23:58
revkeesj: for squeak or in general?23:59
keesjno in general (Ruby wxRuby for me)23:59

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