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| pa | i guess you could make it with a sort of predictive algorithm that uses backtracking in case it fails | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| pa | (if you want a general algorithm, that would work, but that would work also without knowing that the vector is constant) | 00:02 |
| djszapi | what would work? | 00:02 |
| pa | so, do you have a solution for that problem already, or not? | 00:04 |
| djszapi | it does not matter :) | 00:04 |
| djszapi | just go figure out :D | 00:04 |
| djszapi | I cannot tell the solution now :) | 00:04 |
| djszapi | I will leave you without sleep :D | 00:04 |
| pa | well its a little difficult | 00:04 |
| djszapi | just do not burn your brain too much | 00:04 |
| pa | because i know the vector is constant | 00:04 |
| pa | but the shepherd doesnt | 00:04 |
| djszapi | I have a more difficult, albeit shorter question if you wish. | 00:04 |
| pa | go on | 00:05 |
| CissWit | djszapi: you need to be more specific about what is the volocity vector | 00:05 |
| djszapi | CissWit: it is constant and arbitrary. | 00:05 |
| djszapi | the shepherd does not know, just like I wrote. | 00:05 |
| djszapi | albeit, the shepherd knows it is constant. | 00:06 |
| pa | so what is the other problem? | 00:06 |
| CissWit | the question is to know if the shep can enumerate all of the possible volicity vector | 00:06 |
| CissWit | if he finds the good velocity vector he can find the wolf as his first position is known | 00:06 |
| CissWit | if the velocity vector is part of an enumerable set, then the sheep can find it, if not, he won't | 00:07 |
| djszapi | so you are saying the shepherd cannot find the wolf? | 00:07 |
| pa | CissWit, but the shepherd doesnt know that the vector is constant | 00:07 |
| CissWit | that's what i say | 00:07 |
| CissWit | "the shepherd knows it is constant." | 00:07 |
| djszapi | CissWit: then you do not have other approach than proving for each algorithm it does not work that can just exist | 00:08 |
| djszapi | if you really think that is the correct answer. | 00:08 |
| pa | CissWit, the velocity vector is part of an enumerable set, but how can the shepherd figure out it is constant? | 00:09 |
| djszapi | you have to find a mathematical approach (I would do that if I guessed that) to prove that. | 00:09 |
| djszapi | pa: the task is that the shepherd does know | 00:09 |
| djszapi | but the shepherd does not know the concrete value | 00:09 |
| djszapi | albeit the shepherd knows that it is not infinite. | 00:09 |
| pa | ah so, it does know! you wrote ihe doesnt | 00:09 |
| djszapi | it is an arbitrary finite number. | 00:09 |
| pa | then it's possible, of course | 00:09 |
| djszapi | no, I did not write. | 00:09 |
| CissWit | djszapi: my mathematical background is too old to provide a formal proof, still, that's a problem of computability | 00:09 |
| pa | you wrote: The shepster does not know anything about the constant velocity vector. | 00:09 |
| * djszapi sees that pa and CissWit are in contradiction. | 00:10 | |
| CissWit | the fact is that the velocity vector is in a not enumerable set | 00:10 |
| djszapi | pa: correct | 00:10 |
| pa | so you see | 00:10 |
| djszapi | but I do not see how that would mean it does not know it is not constant. | 00:10 |
| djszapi | he knows it is constant | 00:10 |
| CissWit | so the sheep cannot enumerable all of the possible value of the vector | 00:10 |
| djszapi | but it does not know the value off hand | 00:10 |
| pa | well anyway | 00:10 |
| djszapi | otherwise it would be super easy. | 00:10 |
| CissWit | if the vector is in an enumerable set, he can | 00:10 |
| djszapi | LOLZ sheep | 00:11 |
| CissWit | he could* | 00:11 |
| djszapi | there is no sheep! | 00:11 |
| CissWit | i think it's more funny with a sheep searching for the wolf | 00:11 |
| pa | my solution is: start from 0, check neighbouring point of distance = 1 step. if you find nothing, iterate. soon or late you will find the first point where the wolf has been at time T=1 | 00:11 |
| djszapi | ok, let it be a rubby. | 00:11 |
| CissWit | (and i misread you :') | 00:11 |
| djszapi | rabbit* | 00:12 |
| pa | (the vector is constant, so you have no risk that the wolf goes back) | 00:12 |
| djszapi | pa: no | 00:12 |
| djszapi | because the wolf is moving. | 00:12 |
| pa | yes | 00:12 |
| djszapi | we discussed that over. | 00:12 |
| pa | but you can check if the wolf has been in a specific location, cant you? | 00:12 |
| djszapi | your algorithm does not work for that for obvious reasons. | 00:12 |
| pa | or can you check only the current wolf position? | 00:12 |
| djszapi | 21:46 < djszapi> the shepster cannot ask if the wolf had been there or not though. | 00:12 |
| djszapi | shepherd* | 00:12 |
| pa | allright | 00:13 |
| pa | then i misread you | 00:13 |
| djszapi | I cannot tell the solution :) | 00:13 |
| djszapi | but I hope you will sleep nice :) | 00:14 |
| djszapi | do not burn your brain, again. ;) | 00:14 |
| djszapi | so shall we go for the more difficult question? | 00:14 |
| pa | yes it is solvable | 00:14 |
| pa | yes go on | 00:14 |
| djszapi | how? | 00:14 |
| djszapi | present me the algorithm. | 00:14 |
| pa | well i cant explain it just now,b ut CissWit was right i think | 00:14 |
| pa | i will | 00:14 |
| pa | give us your other riddle now :) | 00:15 |
| djszapi | CissWit said it cannot be solved. | 00:15 |
| djszapi | you have just said "yes it is solvable" | 00:15 |
| pa | ok | 00:15 |
| pa | so | 00:15 |
| djszapi | none proved anything. | 00:15 |
| pa | you have 8 possible directions | 00:15 |
| pa | and a length that is a given arbitrary number | 00:15 |
| CissWit | how do you know there's only 8 possible directions ? | 00:15 |
| djszapi | not really... | 00:15 |
| pa | well | 00:15 |
| djszapi | you have kinda "infinite... | 00:15 |
| pa | ah right | 00:15 |
| djszapi | as the velocity vector ratio is not known. | 00:16 |
| pa | you dont have 8 possible directions | 00:16 |
| djszapi | for x and y. | 00:16 |
| djszapi | let me know tomorrow if you find the solution. | 00:16 |
| djszapi | but sleep a bit at least! ;) | 00:16 |
| CissWit | you have infinite directions, infinite magnitude | 00:16 |
| pa | CissWit, well not really invinite | 00:16 |
| pa | or | 00:16 |
| pa | infinite possible | 00:16 |
| CissWit | i don't know, i asked if it was an int, a float or a real | 00:17 |
| CissWit | i have no answer | 00:17 |
| pa | he said int | 00:17 |
| CissWit | sorry | 00:17 |
| pa | so if you can estabilish an order of these vectors | 00:17 |
| pa | you can still probably examine all of them | 00:17 |
| pa | and soon or late find the wolf | 00:17 |
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| CissWit | you don't need to order them, only to enumerate them. if you can't enumerate them all, you can't be sure you will find him .. without any more information | 00:18 |
| pa | right | 00:18 |
| pa | but you can enumerate them | 00:18 |
| pa | coz the grid is discrete, as far as i understood | 00:19 |
| djszapi | I do not understand this enumeration thingie. | 00:19 |
| djszapi | it is not an infinite vector, just the plane is infinite. | 00:19 |
| djszapi | so of course if you increment a counter, you will exceed sooner or later. | 00:19 |
| djszapi | an arbitrary number | 00:19 |
| pa | djszapi, the coordinates where the wolf can be are integers, not reals, right? | 00:19 |
| djszapi | I am saying regardless it is a help or mishelp | 00:20 |
| djszapi | I am just trying to clarify that enumeration does not make sense in this case. | 00:20 |
| bef0rd | I think its not possible | 00:20 |
| pa | CissWit, im not sure enumeration is enough tho | 00:20 |
| djszapi | pa: I do not think it actually matters. | 00:20 |
| CissWit | djszapi: by definition of an enumerable set, if the vector is part of an enumerable set, the wolf can be found | 00:20 |
| djszapi | but if you wish, you can work with integral type. | 00:20 |
| pa | i think some sort of order might be necessary, no? | 00:21 |
| pa | CissWit, even though the concept of ordering might be included in your definition of enumerable | 00:22 |
| pa | djszapi, so what is your other riddle? | 00:23 |
| djszapi | There is a climber having 31 m rope. The climber is on the top of the rock and the plan is to get into the valley at the bottom. There are two points where the climber can outspread the rope. At the top (current starting position) or at the middle of the rock. The rock is 40 m high. The climber cannot jump, just climb, but the rope can be cut anytime. How would you get the climber into the valley? | 00:23 |
| djszapi | I can draw the situation if it is visually unclear. | 00:24 |
| djszapi | Oh yeah, and the climber does not have any height, so consider that as a discrete point again. | 00:24 |
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| pa | so the climber can be up and down only using the rope | 00:25 |
| pa | s/be/go | 00:25 |
| djszapi | yeah, the climber can climb, but cannot jump. | 00:26 |
| pa | are you sure there's nothing missing in the description? | 00:27 |
| djszapi | yes | 00:28 |
| pa | but say you bind a rope in the middle of the rock, can the climber still climb up? | 00:29 |
| djszapi | climbing is climbing | 00:29 |
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| djszapi | no matter when where how what who. | 00:30 |
| CissWit | then pa found the answer | 00:30 |
| CissWit | ^^ | 00:30 |
| djszapi | and no climbing is of course no climbing. | 00:31 |
| djszapi | no matter when where how what who. | 00:31 |
| djszapi | what answer exactly? | 00:32 |
| CissWit | um, nothing | 00:32 |
| pa | google knows the answer, btw | 00:33 |
| pa | :) | 00:33 |
| pa | i know, it's cheating | 00:33 |
| djszapi | oh, I have not checked google yet if it is up there. | 00:34 |
| CissWit | i am not sure of what you mean with "outspread" | 00:34 |
| djszapi | to stabilize the rope to that point. | 00:34 |
| djszapi | for climbing. | 00:34 |
| CissWit | ok | 00:35 |
| djszapi | perhaps outspread is not the right word. | 00:35 |
| djszapi | this task was told to me in Hungarian :D | 00:35 |
| pa | but you should have said that you can cut but tie as well | 00:35 |
| djszapi | The climber cannot jump, just climb, but the rope can be cut anytime. | 00:36 |
| pa | ok, it might have been implicit | 00:36 |
| djszapi | from the initial description ^^ | 00:36 |
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| djszapi | pa: so what did you find on google as no one cares anymore? | 00:52 |
| djszapi | can you summarie? | 00:52 |
| djszapi | summarize* | 00:52 |
| djszapi | I have an idea but I have never checked google. | 00:53 |
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| pa | ok, so in short you cut the rope at mt 11, you make a little loop at one end, and you thread the rest of the rope in that loop, and then tie the two ends together, so that you can untie the 20mt piece once you get in the middle of the rock | 00:59 |
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| djszapi | my idea is this: | 01:00 |
| djszapi | you cut off the one third | 01:00 |
| djszapi | then you tie at the top | 01:01 |
| djszapi | then you slide down 20 ms | 01:01 |
| djszapi | 20 m = 2/3 | 01:01 |
| djszapi | then tie | 01:01 |
| djszapi | then climb up 1/3 | 01:01 |
| djszapi | cut, fall down 2/3 | 01:01 |
| djszapi | tie the one you cut off initially. | 01:01 |
| djszapi | and then you are down. | 01:01 |
| djszapi | but it is a bit mad, and actually a real alpinist will not do this way :D | 01:02 |
| pa | :) | 01:02 |
| djszapi | they like swing as far as I know. | 01:02 |
| djszapi | swinging* | 01:02 |
| djszapi | only Chuck Norris would do that insane :D | 01:02 |
| pa | or Sly :) | 01:03 |
| pa | or probably tom cruise, but only in the movies ;) | 01:04 |
| pa | this pussy boy | 01:04 |
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| Sam___ | Greetings | 02:03 |
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| Samarchy | hello? | 02:27 |
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| bef0rd | h | 02:41 |
| bef0rd | hi | 02:41 |
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| djszapi_ | pa: so did the shepherd find the wolf last night? :D | 17:39 |
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| pa | maybe not last night, but he will ;) | 17:46 |
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| pa | does boosting an app use memory when the app is not running? | 18:38 |
| pa | i remember that after reflashing i had like 550mb free, and now after reinstalling a bunch of stuff, im on 490 or so | 18:38 |
| pa | (after reboot) | 18:38 |
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| marcellus_ | hi. I was trying to remane the file snd_camera_shutter.wav from my Phone so that the camera will shut up by taking pictures. | 18:49 |
| marcellus_ | I am using filebox as file manager, but it won't allow me to do so. | 18:50 |
| marcellus_ | any idea how to gain root access to achieve this goal? | 18:50 |
| Lava_Croft | marcellus_: This http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80600 allows you to silence the camera shutter too | 18:54 |
| Lava_Croft | It basically does what you try to do, only it does it 'for you' | 18:54 |
| Lava_Croft | I cant vouch for the rest of the application tho, it might as well have other options that break shit | 18:54 |
| Lava_Croft | but iirc its relatively 'safe' | 18:54 |
| Lava_Croft | coincidentally, i think this app lets set root permissions for filebox too | 18:55 |
| marcellus_ | Thanks a lot, Lava_Croft! I will try that! | 18:57 |
| Lava_Croft | and i guess you know how you could achieve this by hand? | 18:57 |
| Lava_Croft | I guess enabling Developer Mode on your N9 and then using devel-su to gain root access would be sufficient to rename said wave file | 18:58 |
| Lava_Croft | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Activating_developer_mode.html | 18:58 |
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| pa | djszapiN9, did qt5 eventuall manage to land ont he store? :) | 21:32 |
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| ZogG_laptop | sup | 22:26 |
| beford | hey | 22:26 |
| djszapiN9 | pa, nope only qt6 | 22:34 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, qt6 should be out any day now | 22:38 |
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| pa | espeak is pretty cool! thanks rzr! | 23:10 |
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| pa | simple question for those who have already qt5 on the n9: does the qt5 web browser perform better than stock broswer, opera or firefox? | 23:12 |
| ieatlint | i found it comparable... didn't notice it being better, and i ended up falling back to the stock browser pretty quickly | 23:14 |
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| djszapiN9 | ieatlint, how is stuff? | 23:20 |
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| ieatlint | working... finishing up a project tomorrow, then hopefully looking forward to a calmer work schedule for a bit | 23:21 |
| ieatlint | how goes you? | 23:21 |
| djszapiN9 | leaving Ireland soon, finally! | 23:23 |
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| djszapiN9 | Will take a few days off in England. | 23:24 |
| djszapiN9 | pa hard to say as qt5 is buggy upstream. | 23:24 |
| djszapiN9 | so no any browser on top of it will run. | 23:25 |
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| ieatlint | well, i imagine you're happy to get out of .ie | 23:28 |
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| djszapiN9 | at least the goats'n stuff. | 23:32 |
| djszapiN9 | I prefer big cities | 23:32 |
| ieatlint | you can have goats in big cities | 23:33 |
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| pa | i see.. thanks! | 23:34 |
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