IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-09-16

djszapi_also, elementary mathematical question:00:00
ZogG_laptopjonni, do you have tweeter or blog?00:00
djszapi_do you think 0.0.8 is higher than 0.0.20120724 ?00:00
pait is outdated but it is 0.0.20120724-0~rzr100:00
djszapi_do you think 0.0.8 is higher than 0.0.20120724 ?00:00
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pawell the question is: who packaged it that way?00:00
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pacoz apt think so00:01
djszapi_pa you know this is an open repository :)00:01
djszapi_it is not like the c-obs setup which is blackbox00:01
djszapi_you can check out :)00:01
paprobably i should put rawcam on hold, then it will stop bugging me00:01
pai just wanted to report00:01
djszapi_well, for me rawcam is a no priority00:02
djszapi_so feel free to volunteer00:02
djszapi_me and rzr cannot do everything unfortunately.00:02
djszapi_we would need more contributors.00:02
djszapi_to sustain this more healthily.00:03
rzrjust push packages to shared repo00:03
djszapi_but unfortunately most of the volunteers were scared off by c-obs00:03
djszapi_pa check if you can ignore stuff00:04
djszapi_it is possible to arch with the config.00:04
djszapi_otherwise it should be X.Y.Z~20120915 for instance like the qt5 packages were this morning00:04
djszapi_on arch*00:05
paah right00:05
pathat was probably the issue00:05
djszapi_the main problem is that it is not updated :D00:06
djszapi_nobody is doing the work00:06
djszapi_if it is important for you perhaps you can package this one?00:07
djszapi_if not, I would just suggest to remove it or so00:08
ZogG_laptoppa, i think there is dev's repo00:08
ZogG_laptoptry to ping him to push it to rzr's repo00:08
ZogG_laptopor download source and do it yourself :P00:08
pai tried to post on his announcement thread00:08
palet see what he answers00:09
ZogG_laptopthe dev is mostly on nemomobile chan00:09
djszapi_well it should be a few minutes job :D00:09
djszapi_less job than communicating this altogether :d00:09
pai think it would be best if dev would mantain his pkg on the repo (or put on the store)00:09
ZogG_laptopi have it built in my repo but i have older version00:09
ZogG_laptopexcat as rzrs one but working :P00:09
djszapi_pa: you cannot expect that from each developer00:09
djszapi_that is unreal.00:09
ZogG_laptopas there were aegis things missing there i think00:09
djszapi_that is why packagers exist in the first place :D00:09
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ZogG_laptopit's not logical, as they are all developed for same OS/platform00:12
ZogG_laptopthey should be maintained by devs00:13
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ZogG_laptopports and other out of harmattan stuff should be packages and maintained by maintainers00:13
ZogG_laptopbut again then they need to keep them uptodate00:13
djszapi_pa: do you really think that developers maintain the packages on any linux distributions? :D00:14
djszapi_except few if ever, never.00:14
pano, i know00:14
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djszapi_you will have spend more time with encouraging and convincing them than just doing yourself.00:14
pabut in this case, since we already have to generate a deb..00:14
djszapi_except that c-obs is not the same as a full-fledged environment00:15
djszapi_c-obs needs some expertise.00:15
djszapi_and they will be scared off in the first stage already00:15
djszapi_at the first issue00:15
djszapi_not to mention most of them get the packages out of the ide00:16
djszapi_and done00:16
djszapi_that is unacceptable for any community repository stuff from the ground up00:16
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi_, mostly developers who make proper software at least maintain in their own distro00:16
ZogG_laptopand i had requested few devs to maintain for my ditro and got fast responce00:17
ZogG_laptopbut after all you are right00:17
ZogG_laptopmostly they don't00:17
ZogG_laptopit's just we have small platform00:17
djszapi_a lot of communication about it forth and back is just not worthy00:17
djszapi_everybody will waste the time.00:17
djszapi_if it is important for you, do it.00:18
djszapi_if not, do not do :D00:18
ZogG_laptopand i think if they already use cobs or repo it would be nice to as k them to push to repo, as it will help to have uptodate packages00:18
ZogG_laptopi don't care i wait from him to push it to apps4meego00:18
djszapi_The qt5 developers would laugh at me asking them for packaging the project for Harmattan lol00:18
ZogG_laptopas i wait from Venemo to push to apps4meego00:18
ZogG_laptopdon't compare00:19
ZogG_laptopi'm talking about app only for harmattan00:19
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paany idea how to create a qml mappolyline in c++?00:42
pait says: path : list<Coordinate>00:44
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pado you think i can pass a QList<QtMobility::QGeoCoordinate> ?00:45
pai guess Coordinate is a qml wrapping for QGeoCoordinate00:45
paand list probably for a QList?00:45
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paprobably most of you sleep already, but..01:05
pahas anybody ported qtm-geoservices-extra to harmattan?01:06
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ZogG_qwazix, ping01:12
ZogG_qwazix, do you mind to push rawcam updates to apps4meego and/or rzr repo?01:13
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paso this guy, caco aka george ruinelli.. ported cacheme to harmattan, makes it not free, and does not even release the source code for the gpl part of it?01:18
djszapi_he does not have to.01:25
djszapi_also, you can ask money for free software.01:25
pamoney is ok01:27
pabut why doesnt he have to release the source of the gpl part of his ap?01:27
pait's gpl, not lgpl01:27
pai checked01:28
pa(in the original cacheme)01:28
djszapi_because he does not have to01:28
djszapi_he only need to send a copy to someone if explicitely asked.01:28
djszapi_read what gpl is01:28
pai see01:28
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paby the way, do you know if dwaradzyn is still (active) in the community? i havent found signs of activity in the last.. yearsmaybe^01:30
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befordpa: did you get another phone?01:40
befordI saw you talking about battery life early01:41
pabeford, no still the same (even though im considering to send it back again)01:46
befordoh but which one? I thought you lost it01:47
payes, i got one stolen, so i bought another one01:48
pabut long time ago01:48
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ZogG_pa, buy another one01:56
ZogG_an one more01:56
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pamaking fun coz u got it for free, hah01:58
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ZogG_pa, i bought mine02:01
ZogG_i bet it cost me more as they do not sell it in my country02:02
befordsame here02:02
ZogG_i got n950 for free though :P02:02
befordsame for the N900 and the N81002:02
ZogG_i bought n900 and no garantee or any place to repair02:03
ZogG_so i ruined it more trying to fix myself02:03
ZogG_and no n810 (02:03
ZogG_beford, u have been on TMO for a while then, how come i never talked to you on #maemo or have i?02:04
befordI am quiet02:04
ZogG_don't lie :P02:05
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ZogG_u alway make a mess here02:05
ZogG_ wait till Doc falls asleep and flood :P02:05
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befordwell I've been here on the irc for a while, I just never registered on the ITT forums back then02:07
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ZogG_laptopbeford, :P02:16
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befordElleo: ping07:02
Elleobeford: pong?07:03
befordElleo: hey :D07:03
befordElleo: just wanted to ask you something, I dont have a Kindle and I want to know if I can still register for amazon and get an ebook, and use your app to read it?07:03
Elleobeford: yep, as long as the kindle store is supported in your country you should be fine07:04
beforddo you know if its possible to read on the Desktop too?07:04
Elleo(even if its not, I believe you can pretend to be a US customer for Kindle stuff)07:04
Elleobeford: under Windows and I think MacOS there are desktop apps07:05
befordah great, thanks!07:05
Elleoor under both those and Linux you can use the cloud reader (which my app is based around)07:05
Elleothat's at
Elleobeford: if you don't mind extra effort you can also strip the DRM from Kindle books using some plugins for Calibre and then read them in FBReader07:07
Elleo(or any other ebook reader that supports Mobipocket format)07:07
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louisdkSome say that Harmattan has no apps. I've just sitting for hours downloading interesting apps. Maybe Android has more apps - but many of them are useful?08:17
Khertan_n950louisdk: depends on use case. try to found a good source code editor on ios .... there is none ;)08:20
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ZogG_laptopqwazix: what's exactly obs buulding problem?08:50
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ZogG_laptophas itsnotabigtruck got back?08:55
qwazixZogG_laptop, I was going to seek your help, when I upload the latest version it does nothing. Just says excluded...09:07
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ZogG_laptopqwazix: it's in harmattan or your repo?09:10
qwazixmy repo09:10
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ZogG_laptopqwazix: i'll try to build :P09:12
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ZogG_laptopqwazix: why do you have 005 and 00609:15
qwazixwhat is 005 and 006? versions?09:15
qwazixah, I just committed with osc, and it didn't replace09:16
qwazixI thought that was the intended behavior but obviously it's not.09:17
ZogG_laptopqwazix: u need to delete and add :P09:17
ZogG_laptopthat's the way it works09:17
ZogG_laptopi think it's the problem09:17
ZogG_laptopbut not sure09:17
qwazixok, got that. I'll try later (I don't have my dev setup on my laptop)09:17
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ZogG_laptopjust loging and delete files from web :P09:18
qwazixYeap, it's building :)09:19
qwazixthanks a million09:19
qwazixhope it builds09:20
ZogG_laptopit just didn't know what version to build :P09:20
ZogG_laptopif it doesn't ping me :P09:20
* ZogG_laptop thinks that he needs to stop using ":P" smile that much09:21
qwazixI should have thought about that, just by osc being like subversion, I thought I shouldn't rewrite history09:22
qwazixOf course I've got to go and push 0.0.8 there, and then upload to A4M09:23
paqwazix, why not ovi store too?09:23
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qwazixpa, I will upload in ovi store as paid, but still want community members to be able to download it for free09:23
paah so you wanna sell it09:24
qwazixI feel that's a fair way to distribute software. People here helped very much to make rawcam what it is so they're entitled to a free copy. Those who believe that it's worth something can purchase it from ovi.09:26
qwazixI also think that Nokia stabbed us in the back by not including a community application source in harmattan like maemo extras, and don't want to reward them very much just because ovi is the only preinstalled way to get apps09:28
qwazixZogG_laptop, Yay! It built.09:28
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ZogG_laptopqwazix: yap :P09:33
ZogG_laptopqwazix: i agree with ovi paid /aaps4meego - free practice09:35
ZogG_laptopqwazix: but i would recommend to pus it to rzr repo as well, as apps4meego fell down lately few tiems and it took a lot of time to repair it now wehn X-Fade is not that around09:35
ZogG_laptopbeford: go back to sleep :)09:36
beford1am why sleep09:36
befordits sunday09:36
ZogG_laptop1 am is 01 or 13?09:36
ZogG_laptopi lways get confused09:36
qwazixZogG_laptop, it's already there, when I build latest I will ping rzr to push new version.09:36
befordpm = post meridian, which means afternoon and night09:37
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ZogG_laptopbeford: i always check wiki and always forget :P09:40
ZogG_laptopthat's why i believe 24 hr system is supirior09:40
ZogG_laptopqwazix: oh right, i think djszapi_ built it09:41
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befordZogG_laptop: did you get any case for the n950?09:42
ZogG_laptopand anyway u can't update till end of CC09:42
ZogG_laptopbeford: case?09:42
befordcover ?09:42
ZogG_laptopi don't use it for n9 even09:42
ZogG_laptopso i didn't bother to get for n95009:42
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befordwell I use it on the N9 I think it has saved it from a couple of falls09:43
ZogG_laptopi think not dropping it saved it from falls :P09:43
befordi'm not perfect09:43
befordZogG_laptop: did you see the boot selection video from juicemen on tmo? that looks nice09:45
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ZogG_laptopbeford: nope10:19
ZogG_laptopbeford: did you try nitdroid or nemo?10:30
ZogG_laptopthinking of trying both on n95010:31
befordnitdroid on the N910:31
ZogG_laptophow smooth is it?10:31
befordphone calls do not work for me10:32
befordbut I've seen on videos that they work for e-yes10:32
ZogG_laptopdo they work for anybody?10:32
ZogG_laptopi mean audio10:32
befordyes e-yes posted videos10:32
ZogG_laptope-yes: :P10:33
djszapi_beford: how many people use it?10:38
ZogG_laptophow can he know?10:40
ZogG_laptopbeford: found 2 months used playbook 32gb for 200$10:41
befordyea, I wouldn't know, but there are enough users on the nitdroid forums to make e-yes' angry asking the same over and over again10:42
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rzrhi sorry i was disconnected last 12h13:39
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jpnurmianyone willing to help with brainstorming names for an evernote client? :)14:50
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urmetHi. I recently got my hands on a N950 and now I'm tring to find a safe kernel to flash on it to get it into openmode. Current firmware on it is PR1.215:13
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bindiurmet: how'd you get your hands on one? D:15:24
urmetgot a new job as a sysadmin and they had it lying around and were all like: here - have this phone, sysadmin needs a phone with a full keyboard :D15:26
bindii want one too15:26
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ZogG_laptopurmet: lol15:30
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Lava_Crofturmet: what :D16:02
Lava_CroftThats a nice way to get a hold of a N95016:02
urmetwell. I aint complaining16:04
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djszapi_rzr: can you fix the pulseaudio19 package?16:31
rzrdjszapi_: will have a look once home16:33
rzrit worked IICR16:33
djszapi_yeah, but the package was utterly odd16:34
djszapi_tried to update, and works locally.16:34
djszapi_not on c-obs :/16:34
djszapi_I wanted to get funkeysynth in.16:34
djszapi_looks a cool application, and that depends on pulseaudio1916:34
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rzrgood luck16:37
djszapi_I will not work on it more for now.16:38
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ZogG_laptoppulseaudio — booooo16:50
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pai think the battery drainer i had was the older version of cron18:23
pai updated yesterday, cron was updated together with 3 other pkg, and now idle consumption is back at 3mA18:24
pait's a suspicion tho.. no real evidences18:25
pabut if taht's true, well then im happy with PR1.3 :)18:25
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jonniheh, I coded application for my personal use which prints devices lockcode in cleartext, quite usefull if you have forgotten your devicelockcode. :)18:41
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pareleasing it or..?18:42
jonniheh, dont know if I can ever release it, as the api's that it uses to dig the info are not so public18:44
jonnijust wanted to see if I can do it :)18:44
jonni(and it requires hacked capas, so ovi store is out of the question anyways=18:45
djszapi_jonni: and hacky store? :)18:45
djszapi_inception store. XD18:46
jonniheh, someone needs to do hacky store :)18:46
djszapi_jonni: so cooked farewell-cake for tomorrow?18:47
jonniactually it would be quite easy to do, just install hacky stores pgp key as, and setup repo with gui.18:47
pawould be handy18:47
djszapi_for ... ?18:48
djszapi_hacker, yes.18:48
djszapi_not for end users. :D18:48
pahacky apps18:48
jonnicoffee room will be full of cakes :)18:48
djszapi_jonni: also drink? :)18:49
djszapi_is there anybody left there from the harmattan team?18:49
jonninaah, we already has sauna evening on friday, so drink side was covered then18:49
djszapi_drink cannot be covered enough for Finns. XD18:50
djszapi_jonni: have you worked on something interesting after the 17th of July?18:51
djszapi_or was it June?18:51
djszapi_yeah June, before the QtCS.18:52
jonniharmattan teams were fired a long time ago. Mostly I have been doing personal projects lately, home network tweaking, setting up ssd drive to car stereos, inserting sdcard floppy emuation to my old Amiga, gotten Nexus7 and looging howto tether that with N9 (either custom hostapd or patched wpa_supplicant), etc.18:54
djszapi_jonni: will your new stuff be open source?18:55
jonnion harmattan side my current tweaks that Im doing is custom kernel, custom hostapd, custom libsms, custom devicelock, custom warning.rle maker, custom cli backup&restore, automatic sha1 reflashlist resigner, etc, I have a dream to make somekind of mega release when I get my things ready.18:57
jonnionly thing is that I dont know if I have that much free time in the future :)18:58
jonnimost of the code is ready, just need to test and package them into some usable form.18:59
djszapi_jonni: I mean your company stuff19:00
jonnidjszapi_: ah, yes and no, mostly I think that I will be doing propriatary side in the future.19:01
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djszapi_jonni: you sold your soul to the devil? :P19:16
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djszapi_qwazix: you are the rawcam author?19:59
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qwazixdjszapi_, yes20:02
djszapi_qwazix: I had problems while packaging.20:03
infobotrumour has it, update is
qwazixdjszapi_, what problems? I'm not a packaging guru either, ZogG helped a lot with the procedure20:04
rashm2khey djszapi_20:06
djszapi_qwazix: cannot recall :D20:06
rashm2kIf you have a ListView Model backed by a QStringList model.get(xxx) does not work20:07
rashm2khowever model[index] does work20:07
rashm2kmight be a good idea to include this in the docs somewhere20:08
djszapi_rashm2k: it is not a docs issue20:08
djszapi_it should be a faq on a community wiki20:08
djszapi_we cannot always check the documentation for faqs20:08
djszapi_if solved or not20:08
qwazixdjszapi_, here are latest dsc and tar.gz20:09
djszapi_qwazix: could you please push to the community repository?20:10
qwazixHow is that done?20:11
djszapi_qwazix: submit20:11
djszapi_submit package20:11
djszapi_and then home:rzr:harmattan20:12
qwazixok, doing it now20:12
qwazixAnother question, for apps4meego the screenshot and icon must be in the root folder of the tarball?20:18
djszapi_why not ovi?20:20
djszapi_qwazix: would you like to maintain this package in the community repository?20:21
djszapi_because then I can assign you as the maintainer to that package.20:21
qwazixyes I can do that20:22
qwazixdjszapi_, it's already uploaded to ovi but it will be paid there20:22
qwazix(haven't got through QA yet)20:23
djszapi_qwazix: accepted.20:24
djszapi_qwazix: I do not know about apps4meego, but I can assure you it is not used by many.20:24
djszapi_plus the maintainance is kinda abandoned unfortunately.20:25
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qwazixyeah, I suppose, but I feel that Nokia stabbed us in the back with removing extras from harmattan and I want to get in their eye20:26
qwazixthat's why I want to upload to a4m20:26
qwazixdjszapi_, so let's say there's a new version out after the feature freeze, do I do the same procedure to upgrade the package in the community repo or what?20:31
djszapi_qwazix: you can work directly in the community repository20:33
qwazixaha, ok then, I'll keep it updated. Thanks20:33
djszapi_yw :)20:34
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khertanqwazix, and worst ... qa at nokia store is random20:56
khertani'm tired of their QA random ... so i ve remove everythings from their store20:56
khertanand publish only on apps4meego20:57
qwazixkhertan, yes I heard, I've been lucky on that matter though20:57
* djszapi_ had no any issues20:57
* djszapi_ has actually received valuable feedback from the Ovi store20:57
djszapi_in addition they usually delete the insane reviews when I report, like in few hours as this week for instance.20:58
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rzrkhertan: hi think about also pushing to shared repo devel versions untill i set up a snapshot bot21:00
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djszapi_also apps4meego is not a "free" repo either21:02
djszapi_it is driven by a company.21:03
djszapi_same as c-obs where the community did not actually get accesses to what they would need.21:03
djszapi_also, who works on apps4meego for Harmattan, like QA?21:05
djszapi_what tools are applied for QA?21:05
djszapi_how many downloads has it a week for instance?21:05
djszapi_how much and swift reponse from the staff for an inquiry?21:06
djszapi_how fast do they fix a bug?21:06
djszapi_also, what does it mean the OVI QA is "random"?21:08
qwazixdjszapi_, your concerns seem valid, but don't all of them except downloads per month apply for maemo extras? And that's obviously a better thing than ovi. Also downloads/month is a chicken-egg thing. If there aren't any valuable apps, downloads will not go up21:09
djszapi_maemo extras != apps4meego21:10
djszapi_I do not think the point is to get an open source, but unusable store.21:11
qwazixin what sense? Except for the stupid decision not to allow dependencies21:11
djszapi_I think people are happier with a store more manpower behind for help21:11
djszapi_and that is clearly Ovi21:12
djszapi_and has always been21:12
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djszapi_not to mention, there is no apps4meego client on the firmware.21:13
djszapi_on top of the much less manpower.21:13
khertandjszapi_, depending who test and random of stupidity you got some stupid answer : didn't work21:14
djszapi_why is that stupid?21:14
djszapi_if it does not work for them?21:14
djszapi_are you calling them liar?21:14
khertandjszapi_, because, they didn't read at least the purpose of the apps21:15
khertanhave new rules not in the qa rules dependings on who test it21:15
djszapi_well that is your problem21:15
djszapi_an application should be intuitive in the first place.21:15
djszapi_do not expect people reading man or help pages.21:15
khertanthink always there is copyright problem21:15
djszapi_this is a fairly basic point in application development.21:15
khertandjszapi_, yep that i know21:16
djszapi_and it of course can happen everywhere21:16
djszapi_not just in Ovi.21:16
khertanand i agree21:16
djszapi_but I would not say, they did not read it.21:16
djszapi_perhaps it was just complicate for them21:16
khertani say it, and i assume21:16
djszapi_as it can be for anybody else.21:16
khertanfor example you can't even name a service your application is for21:16
khertanone was refused21:16
djszapi_so if you cannot make your application intuitive you will have bigger problems than ovi...21:17
khertanbecause i say it use desktoppr services ?21:17
qwazixThe fact that there is no apps4meego client together with the stupid no-dependencies thing feels to me like a deliberate crippling of the community character of maemo/meego, in favor of the little money they will make from ovi. That's why I'd like the scale to shift away from it. Ovi was there on the N900 too, and nobody used it, because the community applications were elsewere. And maemo extras weren't enabled till pr1.2 (which probably21:17
qwazixhappened just because noone used ovi)21:17
khertanlike creating a twitter apps whithout never saying it s connect to twitter21:17
qwazix*weren't enabled in the firmware21:17
djszapi_qwazix: where is apps4foobar enabled?21:18
djszapi_on android?21:19
djszapi_on ios?21:19
djszapi_on blackberry?21:19
djszapi_not to mention Android asks for 25 EUR, Nokia asked for insignificant 1 EUR for distributing your application.21:19
qwazixehm, that's the reason I don't use either of them21:19
khertanbut at a time wan't open to independant21:19
khertan /s/wan't/wasn't21:20
djszapi_qwazix: why do you need apps4foobar?21:20
djszapi_when there is a bunch of people to have worked on the official store?21:21
djszapi_why would you need more?21:21
djszapi_also, I highly doubt you would give out of your hands the store option if you are the vendor.21:21
qwazixAnd I would be a bit more relaxed in criticising nokia IF the N9 was to be the mass market device it was intended to be. But it's still a niche device like the N900 and by PR1.3 they knew that very well, so they could very well enable community repositories on it so that it could last another day21:21
djszapi_would be a very silly business strategy. :)21:21
djszapi_if you can money out of it.21:21
djszapi_qwazix: you do not know the history21:22
djszapi_and you are throwing bad words at them.21:22
djszapi_they actually did give all the credentials to apps4meego.21:22
djszapi_which I would not have had personally.21:22
qwazixmaybe I don't. I just see wasted potential.21:22
djszapi_apps4meego has exactly the same credential set as ovi store21:23
djszapi_they gave this out in the last minutes.21:23
djszapi_Like I said, I find it a false decision, but they did.21:23
djszapi_in addition maintaining two app stores officialy is double the work21:25
khertandjszapi_, that an other aegis problem </troll>21:25
djszapi_plus of course you would outsource the money of your business.21:25
djszapi_khertan: there is no aegis problem21:25
djszapi_that is exactly my point21:25
khertandjszapi_, which business ? they kill it21:25
djszapi_they solved it for the community21:25
khertandjszapi_, yep21:25
djszapi_khertan: kill what?21:26
djszapi_do you think the 1 EUR is not going to a Nokia bank account and so forth?21:26
khertanMeeGo / Maemo currently by they switch to WP21:26
khertani don't think they catch many money from the store21:26
djszapi_ovi still has income until now.21:26
khertandjszapi_, probably just enough to pay qa teams ?21:27
djszapi_so I fail to see why they should deny that income.21:27
djszapi_they do not dislike money :)21:27
djszapi_who knows or cares21:27
djszapi_it is their wallet.21:27
khertandjszapi_, indeed21:27
djszapi_I would not like to dig into that.21:27
khertannoone care :) swith to apps4meego21:27
djszapi_I do not see why.21:27
djszapi_it is pretty much abandoned as c-obs is.21:27
djszapi_it is not available for users by default.21:28
khertanand ?21:28
djszapi_and ovi has much more work behind and applications.21:28
qwazixAnyway, the bottom line of my thinking is this: Nokia could benefit from an infrastructure set up like maemo extras, where developers can reuse code from others, and give the phone a much bigger selection of apps in less time. The loss of money from individual application sales could be very well offseted by larger N9 sales volumes. All reviews were raving about the phone but in the end they recommended against buying for the lack of apps21:28
qwazix, dead ecosystem etc.21:28
khertanand why both could not coexists ?21:28
djszapi_and it means a complete no go for me.21:28
khertanit s not like if n9 was mass market21:28
khertanand not a end of life product21:28
qwazix1 extra N9 is equivalent to about 2000 sales of a one-euro app21:28
khertandjszapi_, and search is so useless on ovi store that most user use web site to found apps21:29
djszapi_they have pretty much made the search nice21:29
djszapi_it catches substrings etc nowadays21:29
khertanall search result you got are scam rss apps21:29
djszapi_well the last few months at least.21:29
djszapi_that is not what I have seen 1-2 hours ago while looking for a type of application...21:30
djszapi_I do not think we need two stores21:31
qwazixAnyway the windows phone decision is relevant here: obviously the money is on selling devices, not other peoples apps.21:31
djszapi_we would have needed one good store21:31
djszapi_IMO and community repository would have been enough.21:32
djszapi_and a client for installing from the community repository.21:32
qwazixdjszapi_, that would be the best thing ever21:33
djszapi_I have never seen the point of apps4meego for Harmattan :)21:33
djszapi_in the beginning, I thought it could have been nice if there is a manpower army behind.21:33
djszapi_but it never was the case.21:33
djszapi_so a lightweight community repository client would have been less work.21:33
djszapi_no rating, comment, etc, but less work anyways21:34
djszapi_and that is why I think it was a wrong decision to ask for permissions for apps4meego21:34
djszapi_we should have asked for the community repository intead.21:34
djszapi_apps4meego has few packages21:34
qwazixI agree with that too21:34
djszapi_the community repository has 700+ projects with at least 1000-2000 packages.21:34
djszapi_and anybody can be nominated easily to add and maintain new packages.21:35
djszapi_maintaining a full app store requires a bunch of contigous work.21:35
qwazixyes but there's no QA, and some packages do not work at all21:35
djszapi_maintaining a very simple repository is much less work, and hence doable.21:35
djszapi_qwazix: exactly my point21:35
qwazixeven a simple qa like diablo, were the maintainer just promotes by himself21:35
djszapi_we do not have enough manpower for this either21:36
djszapi_why do we think we have then enough manpower for a full-fledged community app store?21:36
qwazixI've seen a lot of complaints that the community repo is full of non-working packages21:36
djszapi_people will always complain :D21:37
djszapi_and will call us random stupid like khertan did with ovi :D21:37
djszapi_there is nothing new about that unfortunately.21:37
djszapi_but my point remains: why would we wanna set up a full-fledged appstore when we do not even have the manpower to set up a community repository in the first place?21:37
qwazixrawcam for example had a higher version in the repo and didn't work at all, so people with the repo enabled had problems installing my .deb21:37
djszapi_an app store requires community repositories plus lots of additional work.21:38
djszapi_qwazix: well, zogg packaged that and you.21:38
djszapi_blame yourself :P21:38
djszapi_I am not in charge of that.21:38
djszapi_and yes, there are problems, but "full of non-working packages" is utterly exaggeration.21:39
qwazixno, I didn't, rzr did but anyway I'm not blaming anyone21:39
qwazixI'm just advocating a two-step repo21:39
djszapi_the whole qt5 and kde stacks are working entirely fine.21:39
djszapi_it is already more than two steps.21:39
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djszapi_we have stable, testing, and unstable.21:39
djszapi_again, my packages do work as far as I know which is about 100-20021:40
djszapi_including the whole KDE stack with dependencies and Qt5.21:40
djszapi_but me and rzr cannot package the whole world together :D21:40
djszapi_so how did anybody think an app store will work out? :D21:40
djszapi_especially since that was mostly born when the platform was beheaded. XD21:41
djszapi_harmattan was one of the first platform having Qt5 beta 1 for instance, and qtquick2.21:41
djszapi_now you will maintain rawcam, it will hopefully work :D21:41
djszapi_ -> looks like it built fine.21:42
djszapi_also, people can open bugreports if something is not working.21:43
djszapi_hard to see they experience problems when they do not report.21:43
qwazixYep I saw it, I'll add the repo and test it to be sure, but I tested it from my repo and works, so it should be the same.21:43
djszapi_I still feel the "full of non-working packages" a bit exaggerating.21:45
djszapi_any other example on the tip of your tongue?21:45
qwazixI didn't mean to devalue the work behind the community repository by any means, I think you're doing a superb job, and I was honoured that rzr packaged rawcam to make it more easily accessible21:45
qwazixI just read a few complaints. One was worded something like that, I don't remember by whom: "Many packages are just built on the community repository and never tested"21:46
djszapi_I fully tested the KDE stack21:47
djszapi_and Qt5 stack21:47
djszapi_and the pull many dependencies in.21:47
djszapi_so I tested all the dependencies as well implicitely.21:47
djszapi_moreover applications built on the top of those.21:48
djszapi_hard to judge without concrete examples.21:48
qwazixAnd as I had read one or two responses from rzr that he packaged something without knowing if it works, I was inclined to believe it, obviously wrongly.21:48
khertandjszapi_, you know i didn't complain about nokia ovi store until recently where qa refused for strange reason21:48
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khertani really have the feeling that they put guys without competences21:49
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djszapi_khertan: same to you too, cannot judge without conrete cases.21:49
djszapi_but for one, you will have always more n00b in the community.21:49
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djszapi_qwazix: right, so the community repository is mostly packaged by me and rzr.21:50
djszapi_qwazix: I can assure you all of my packages were tested without any exception.21:50
djszapi_I build in scratchbox, and I then install the generated packages right away21:50
rzrnot mine21:50
djszapi_and if everything works, it goes for testing.21:50
khertandjszapi_, wleux apps, they complain that Copyright Infrigment because i name in the description of the apps21:50
djszapi_and once the community repository built it and distributed it, I can test on my device21:51
khertanKhtBMA, i sayed that it s an unofficial authenticator for diablo321:51
khertandjszapi_, they refuse it because diablo 3 is a commercial name21:51
khertanhow to describe the apps so ?21:51
khertankhtsimpletext, they complain three time that didn't install ...21:51
khertanthe fourst time ... it s was ok21:52
khertantheir repo was down so the app installer wasn't able to download the depandancies21:52
djszapi_khertan: you think they are liars if they say, your application does install for them?21:52
khertandjszapi_, this is concrete case21:52
rzrdescribe it as unfree game that may screw your life21:52
djszapi_does not*21:52
djszapi_if they distribute your application21:52
khertandjszapi_, the app didn't install because the nokia repo was not21:52
djszapi_while the apps "repository" is down21:52
djszapi_it will be non-working for the users21:53
djszapi_so I would reject too.21:53
khertandjszapi_, if the repo is down, they can't download it21:53
djszapi_until the things fixed.21:53
khertanso it s not fault of the apps21:53
khertanbut of their store21:53
khertanhow should i fix that ?21:53
djszapi_khertan: well you need to test these things...21:53
djszapi_before sending...21:53
khertaninclude statically all libs provided on their repo ?21:53
djszapi_and it is easily reproducable...21:54
khertandjszapi_, no it s not easily reproductable21:54
djszapi_not to mention, you can be happy they allowed that.21:54
khertantheir is cache by country21:54
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djszapi_I would reject by default if you depend on the apps where you should not.21:54
rzranyway depending on nokia store is too risky i feel21:54
djszapi_since there is no guaranee for that.21:54
qwazixdjszapi_, it's standard ovi procedure to allow dependencies from the sdk21:54
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khertani DIDN'T DEPENDS ON APPS :!21:54
djszapi_your capslock seem to be screwed.21:55
khertanmy mind too21:55
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qwazixfor example rawcam depends on fcam which on pr1.1 is on sdk repo while on pr1.2 is on device (and newer version), there is no other way than depend on it21:56
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djszapi_qwazix: except that the sdkrepo is not the apps repository21:56
djszapi_or it was not at least.21:56
qwazixkhertan talks about the sdk repo too methinks21:57
djszapi_I believe not.21:57
djszapi_at least he was asking here few times about the apps "repository"21:57
djszapi_and if he can depend on packages in there.21:58
djszapi_and I suggested to him not to, if he can avoid.21:58
qwazixbut you can't depend on other packages except sdk ones I think when submitting to ovi21:58
djszapi_because that repository has no guarantee, and it was seen to be down many times.21:58
djszapi_my applications do not depend on the apps repository afaik.21:58
djszapi_unsure about the diablo3 issue22:00
rZrwe'll talk about it later i have to go22:00
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djszapi_ianal, I would leave that issue to a lawyer.22:00
qwazixand what does that repo contain?22:01
djszapi_if they say, it is not ok, I can change it to something else to be safe.22:01
djszapi_it is not a big problem to fix.22:01
djszapi_it is a one liner..22:01
djszapi_they do not need to re-test and so forth.22:01
djszapi_so I would expect it a simple fix with swift procedure.22:02
djszapi_qwazix: do not know by heart; I would need to check it.22:02
djszapi_I do not have time for that as of now.22:02
qwazixnvm, I was just curious22:03
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djszapi_but it is known for being down a lot, so better to avoid.22:05
djszapi_qwazix: do you also contribute to nemo?22:06
qwazixA little bit, recently22:07
djszapi_do you see any future for that?22:07
qwazixI like very much spending time on UI so I started a little project to bring some consistency and plan to the nemo UI22:08
qwazixAs for the future, I think it's directly related to available devices22:08
qwazixI think that with a few months more work nemo will pass the tipping point of being usable day to day,22:09
djszapi_I wish you good luck about that.22:10
djszapi_Unfortunately, I have been hearing the same for over a year.22:11
qwazixIt sure feels that it has more future than harmattan, but that may just be the excitement, dunno...22:11
djszapi_but let us hope, it is true this time.22:11
djszapi_I have contributed to that project long ago when it was still called meego. :)22:11
djszapi_then meego de, then meego ce, and then nemo.22:12
djszapi_perhaps I missed a name in the meantime.22:12
qwazixI think that's about correct22:12
djszapi_and we have alway been said, it is soon ready for daily usage.22:12
djszapi_and to be frank the edition about one and half a year ago was. :)22:13
djszapi_soon ready for that.22:13
qwazixIt's pretty stable now as it is, it's just missing applications and polish.22:13
djszapi_I do not know how it went so long afterward without getting there.22:13
qwazixMany things are being rewritten from mtf to qml22:13
djszapi_still qtquick1 :/22:14
djszapi_I have been playing recently with qtquick2 on Harmattan.22:14
djszapi_and the meego components.22:14
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qwazixIs it so different syntactically?22:15
qwazixI mean is it hard to upgrade existing apps?22:15
djszapi_most likely that is what nemo will also need in the future, but probably not near.22:15
djszapi_hmm, not really, no.22:16
djszapi_I am trying to make the transient as smooth as possible now.22:16
djszapi_although the version bumps will be needed.22:16
djszapi_cannot tell any other porting effort for now.22:17
qwazixHave you seen the new nemo home built on qml?22:17
djszapi_the C++ side may need some refactoring, but that is outside the scope of the component.22:17
djszapi_I have not seen that project the last one year or so.22:18
djszapi_perhaps someone gave the phone into my hands.22:18
djszapi_but actively, I have only seen one and half a years ago.22:18
djszapi_on my N900 :-)22:19
qwazixIt looks a lot more like harmattan now. It even has swipe. (not all the animation stuff but still)22:19
djszapi_was extremely slow and burnt my hands :)22:19
djszapi_it made the phone so hot.22:19
qwazixHaven't tried it on N900 lately, but on N950 is very speedy.22:19
djszapi_I would not like to flash that to my n9.22:20
djszapi_and my n950 is about 2000-3000 kms away now unfortunately. :P22:20
djszapi_forgot to grab before the relocation.22:20
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qwazixAnyway, I have to go. About the community repo before, I didn't mean to question your work, I just heard some complaints and just stated what I heard, but as you said, people will always complain.22:29
djszapi_no worries. :)22:30
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