IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-08-12

Sazpaimonis your dualboot kernel baed on the PR1.3 sources?00:00
SazpaimonI can patch it up for you if you'd like00:01
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ptlZogG_laptop: this howto of yours is just for the closed meego build system, right? Not for the open Publib Meego build service.00:08
ZogG_laptopptl: ???00:09
ZogG_laptopnope it's not00:09
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ptlZogG_laptop: it asks me to create an account on the meego build system, by filing a bug report00:15
ptlZogG_laptop: first thing on it is 'how to get started' -
ptl"You need an account on To request an account: "00:16
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ZogG_laptopptl: you make account and than you use it on
ZogG_laptopyou may need X-Fade's approval to use it :P00:17
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ptlI see00:22
ptlbut it's different from what's in the guide00:22
pawhats the pkg name for terminal?00:23
paok found00:23
ptltry fingerterm, it's a thousand times better00:25
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ptlfor me, at least00:25
pai can try yeah, just needed that as dependency for my app00:41
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pahow better N9 would be if to close one would always have to swipe from "NOKIA" to the other side00:44
paand to just move to applist swipe on the other side00:45
palike this 90% of the times it doesnt do what you want00:45
paunless one keeps the phone perfectly straight00:45
ZogG_laptoppa: my phone is straight, but i heard pink one's are slight gays :)00:47
rzrno offence to the girls around , are there some ?00:47
ZogG_laptoprzr: :)00:50
npmthey ran off when they saw the bulge in my pocket.... "but it's just my new Tizen developer device" i replied00:50
npmthe last part being true. just got it yesterday.00:51
panpm, cool,  what device is it?00:51
npm"with great power comes great battery consumption"00:51
paand is it easy to get .. for free? :)00:51
DocScrutinizer05in english: noTes00:54
Sazpaimonmy bank just redesigned their online banking site00:54
Sazpaimonso far I hate it, soely for one reason00:54
Sazpaimonthey swapped the "available balance" and "current balance" columns00:54
npmask intel. see #Tizen ... i had to apply. it's a prototype of a samsung device:
paah thanks00:55
Sazpaimonso i logged on and was like "why do I suddenly have 200 more dollars"00:55
mike7b4samsung is to big corporation and will piss in open source when they get a chance IMHO samsung is nokia partII00:57
rzrdispite for samsung ce is a few % of the profit ...01:02
rzrmost of the biz is done on a higher level , they are tanker ships vendors ... dont forget that01:03
rzrnothing to be compared to nokia01:03
rzrboth are selling phones .. that's all01:03
npmall's i know is I have a very fast, very large, very powerhungry device, and that I think it might have that super amoled hd plus display01:03
npmjust did the water drop test and the pixels look nice01:04
npmamoled w/o pentile01:04
ptlhope it's not 'samsung's first time tizen device willl have a super amoled HD Plus display with PenTile'01:12
ptlnpm said it first.01:12
ptlthe PenTile stuff really stirred fights in tmo01:14
ieatlintthe high resolution of the tizen device makes the issues much less prominent01:15
npmwhy is it not pentile? it looks nice. it's like i shrank down to half my size and i'm still holding an iphone :-)01:16
npmonly samsung could blatantly copy apple and have the lawyers to do it.01:16
ieatlintnot sure how you can claim the tizen reference device looks remotely like an apple product01:17
ieatlintit looks like a giant brick of plastic01:17
npmthere's quite a few design aspects i've seen that made me go OMG01:17
npmthe button. various GUI design aspects. not the plastic01:18
npmi'm assuming the product will be the usual 9mm job01:18
npm"Plus version have more sub pixels which results in a sharper and clearer image quality and the latest generation is also thinner, brighter, consumes less battery and the sensitivity is improved."01:19
npmwish it ran raspbian :-)01:19
ieatlinteh, such comments come off to me as the standard blind "apple invented everything" thing01:20
ieatlint"omg, it has a button, and a top menu with status info like a clock!"01:21
npmthe keyboard?01:21
ieatlintit has features that are from every touch-based smartphone in the past 5 years, and from every phone in the past 801:21
npmlooks like something i've seen before01:21
ieatlintlooks closer to windows phone keyboard i think01:22
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ZogG_laptopin pic it has so much space not used in bottom01:22
ieatlintthe tizen keyboard on the reference device looks nothing like the apple one01:22
npm(it's actually better than wp7 keyboard )01:22
ZogG_laptopand i prefer to see with what jolla comes up01:22
npmwell when jolla sends a device i'll comment on it's design too01:23
* npm having been listed as reference in two apple GUI patents01:23
ZogG_laptopnpm: would they send you one?01:23
npmeven though i never worked there or had anything to do w/ those patents01:23
npmwell if they want me to port
npmso far my HTML5 works on tizen for some value of "works"01:26
ZogG_laptopnpm: oh it's your work, nice one :P01:26
npmwell the last is my port, not work01:26
npmi disavow any and all of that code :-)01:27
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DocScrutinizer05I'd prefer to comment on jolla device *before* they closed the window for design changes01:40
DocScrutinizer05still waiting for jolla approaching me regarding some kinda contract regarding that01:40
DocScrutinizer05on N900 they could've avoided 4 maijor hw fsckups if only they sent me the schematics up to half a year *before* the final production run01:42
DocScrutinizer05maybe even 5 or 601:43
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DocScrutinizer05the speaker-amp DC coupling just one of them, which would've saved them quite some money for the XPROT workaround, as well as several weeks of rollout delay01:46
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rzrnpm, tested also on tizmee ?01:55
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piggz_are there any good tizen apps to use on tizmee?02:10
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Hurrianpiggz_, there are very few tizen apps that aren't demos02:11
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: you know how it works02:13
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faenilguys, fast question, how would you create video thumbnails using Qt?02:18
faenilI was thinking about a QVideoWidget + QPixmap::grabWindow02:18
faenilbut I don't know how much that is efficient02:18
faenilbecause I think you have to play() the video to get the image02:18
faenil(offscreen, if that's even possible with qvideowidget)02:18
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DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: I know any company with *sane* management knows about importance of an ambassador/moderator between hw and sw departments. And I know I can excel on that level. What I don't know is if jolla has a sane management aware of both facts and with a vacancy on that position02:20
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: excatly, Nokia didn't send you coz you outsider, they just went with employers :P02:22
rzrpiggz_, I am coding a webdav client / editor it failed on tizmee :(02:23
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piggz_rzr: i guess it will be quite difficut for someone to implement all the tizen specific api;s ... btw, rpi yet?02:24
rzrnot rpi in continental europe02:25
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npmrzr sorry for late response. What's tizmee? i literally just got it running last night so total noob. I have a picture tho
Sazpaimonanyone know if T-Mobile's ipv6 is still active?02:37
Sazpaimonhmm looks like it02:37
npmDocScrutinizer05: but doesn't the speaker-amp  dc coupling the reason why it sounds good (compared to lumia which sounds like a capacitor)02:38
Sazpaimonhas anyone tested T-Mobile's IPv6 on the N9?02:39
Sazpaimondoes it work simmilar to fremantle?02:39
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DocScrutinizer05npm: you're the first to state N900 sounds exceptionally good. But anyway, the answer is 'no'02:39
npmI got my RPI
npmoh n900? i thought you meant n95002:39
npmn900 sounds pretty good imho02:40
npmlast i checked the n9/n950 chip had a groovy capacitor-less direct drive chip, which i like, as i hate capacitors. :-)02:41
DocScrutinizer05well, it sounds good despite XPROT02:41
npmexcept when they're filtering AC out of DC02:41
* npm checks for the chip02:43
DocScrutinizer05and XPROT is needed since the whole design is DC-coupled, which means frequencies <50Hz go to the speakers full amplitude, which us useless and fries the speakers02:43
DocScrutinizer05a proper hw-lowcut and DC-blocking whould have done same without increasing load to CPU for sw filtering02:44
npmoh don't get me started on that.02:45
npmAFAIC i'd have replaced all of pulseaudio with a bunch of dacs all free-running at whatever rate they need to,  and an analog summer02:46
npmno resampling, no mixing, no nothing using the CPU or DSPs02:46
rzrnpm, your bg twitter image is awsome02:47
rzrnpm, but where does it come from ?02:47
DocScrutinizer05don't get me wrong, there's nothing better than a digital amp or at least a proper H-bridge for driving speakers, but you damn better get DC-decoubling for the amp *input*02:49
npmDocScrutinizer05: now there i totally agree. you decouple something with a known impedance over frequency, and a high impedance... not a loudspeaker02:50
npm vs is how capacitors sound02:52
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npmrzr ... thanks for the cordova link ... looks very useful02:56
npmoh and the fractal link was supposed to be:
npmspecicically: Tree of Life by Rob Barnett03:00
DocScrutinizer05npm: hah, with my tasks for OM I learnt a bit about capacitors in audio ;-) After all my spotting of that 1uF decoupling instead of recommended 100uF in GTA02 audio amp out opened the door for my postion in OM03:01
npmouch... in my case input and output modification. yamaha db50 synth clone  had output capacitors, and the $1.00 pci audio card it still attaches to had input capacitors... got rid of the small ones in series and put in a big tantalum cap and the "modded dynex" sound is the result03:08
befordping khertan, thp03:10
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ZogG_laptopbeford: they are asleep i think03:11
ZogG_laptopbeford: got your n950?03:11
befordnot even a tracking number yet03:12
ZogG_laptopit was sent with post pigeoun03:12
ZogG_laptopok i need to go to sleep03:14
befordgood night ZogG_laptop03:15
ZogG_laptopstill here :P03:21
befordgood night ZogG_laptop!03:22
beforddamn i have no idea why this thing is segfaulting03:22
ZogG_laptopwhich one?03:28
ZogG_laptopwhat are you doing03:28
ZogG_laptopwho are you?03:28
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befordhah my application segfaults when I try to update one item from the listview :/03:35
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ZogG_laptopbeford: =(03:36
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Elleorzr: if you send me your webdav client I'll take a look and try to work out why it's having problems07:17
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abbasis there any way to add bridge module to my N9 ?13:42
abbasor compile my kernel module and install it?13:43
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infobotYo zogg_laptop, how's it going eh?13:58
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infobotZogG_laptop: thanks13:58
ZogG_laptopHurrian: sup14:04
jonniabbas: yes you can compile your custom kernel module just fine, kernel sources are avail on pr1.3 dvd. And you can install it if you use exploits like inception.14:05
ZogG_laptopjonni: i think i would give up on updating kernel14:06
jonniZogG_laptop: heh, lets see if I someday have time to look into that, it helps when one can do just git diff on different branches :)14:07
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jonnivs diffing only tar.gz :)14:07
ZogG_laptopjonni: i got sources from nemo one and sources from and made diff14:08
ZogG_laptopi got a lot of "patch was applied" because it's probably was changed in greater version and i got a lot of FAILS :(14:09
padoes anybody know if nokia has any plan to fix the battery status bug soon or late?14:10
HurrianZogG_laptop, working on my Windows 8 setup14:10
paits really annoying, and no, its not a feature..14:10
ZogG_laptopas well i can't read all the fails as i have every second question " should you apply" and i hit "y" as it would take a lot of time to read line by line =\14:10
ZogG_laptopHurrian: delete it!!!!14:10
abbasjonni: where can i find pr1.3 dvd?14:10
infobotTo build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file.  Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source.  The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`.14:10
paZogG_laptop, i think someone here was promising to put it online14:11
HurrianZogG_laptop, haven't touched the Metro UI in a few hours, good enough I guess.14:11
pasorry, abbas14:11
ZogG_laptopabbas: the iso on DocScrutinizer05's server14:11
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: what is the ~ command to get the url?14:12
ZogG_laptopjonni: btw i think there is no option to make modules_install on original one, i wanted to try otg as well14:13
abbasZogG_laptop: how can i obtain address of DocScrutinizer05's server14:14
ZogG_laptopask him14:16
mwerabbas:man baladam ama nemigam14:17
abbasDocScrutinizer05: thank you14:18
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues cloud-714:18
infobotFactoid search of 'cloud-7' by value (2): malf ;; aegis-no-thanks.14:18
infobotit has been said that aegis-no-thanks is, or, or
DocScrutinizer05somewhere next to that14:19
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: btw :)14:19
ZogG_laptopone more link to source14:19
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: he is the one i told who uploaded before, now i remember :P14:19
ZogG_laptopabbas: ^14:19
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ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: did you get respnse from nokia?14:20
abbasZogG_laptop: thank you.14:20
ZogG_laptopthank Corsac and DocScrutinizer :P14:21
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rzrZogG_laptop, hi did u run that mpd client ?14:32
ZogG_laptopnot yet14:32
ZogG_laptopand i need to setup mpd server btw14:33
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phako   /w 3814:52
ZogG_laptopphako: exactly14:56
ZogG_laptopit is /w 39 already btw14:56
ZogG_laptopi use it too but has no idea what does that do14:57
phakochange the window14:57
phakoah, right, I added that shortcut14:57
ZogG_laptopoh so tha't the way to do it14:57
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ZogG_laptopas i was confused with tab 20 and how to switch to it with alt :)14:58
ZogG_laptopphako: and how to close specific one if you know14:58
phakoI usually change to it and close it with /window close14:59
phakounless it's a private conversation, then use /unquery14:59
ZogG_laptopoh, good. i used /leave for chans but didn't know how for queries14:59
ZogG_laptopunquery is logical actually :P14:59
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ZogG_laptopjonni: i did the other trick :P15:14
ZogG_laptopjonni: i use the display update script from nemo, but i heard than in new kernel there is patch for that, i may apply commit of it to current source15:19
DocScrutinizer05has anybody downloaded yet? does it work?15:20
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i may try if you want, what's the size?15:20
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: downloading it15:22
ZogG_laptopmacmaN: luke-jr
DocScrutinizer05yeah, you're the first one since... oh, [12/Aug/2012:04:13:48 +0200]15:23
DocScrutinizer05(the time my http-log starts)15:23
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: is the bandwidth ok?15:24
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: 760 ±15:24
ZogG_laptopwith axel -n 1015:24
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ZogG_laptopjonni: and it works thanks to mdev :)15:25
MohammadAGMore connections isn't always faster ;)15:25
MohammadAGI found 6-7 best15:26
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: sup15:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: ~600 on iOS15:26
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: when we do the n9-hack-day? +P15:26
MohammadAGWhen you want, just state a date with at least 3 days notice15:27
DocScrutinizer05whatever 760 means15:27
DocScrutinizer05hm, a bit better15:28
MohammadAGI normally get 1.3MB/s with my connection15:28
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: it can't go faster due our shitty ISP15:28
MohammadAGDont call bezeq shitty :P15:28
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i would call them shitty if my phone line wouldn't be so crappy :P15:29
ZogG_laptopword games :P15:29
MohammadAGI hate their safenet though15:29
ZogG_laptopwhat's that?15:30
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MohammadAGIt's like parental controls15:30
ZogG_laptopi switched off all the things they offered me, all the virus checks and email and all the crap15:31
MohammadAGThey keep switching it on15:31
MohammadAGIt blocks ffs15:31
ZogG_laptopi don't have it15:31
MohammadAGIt also breaks resumable downloads15:31
MohammadAGWhich in turn breaks streaming15:31
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: will we ever get normal upload? Bezeq got new cable over seas, didn't the?15:32
MohammadAGUpload speeds suck15:32
MohammadAGThey're like 1.5MBps on orange's 3G in Haifa15:32
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i hate all this 100 Mbit advs — fasters internet shit :)15:32
ZogG_laptopthey blame bezeq int and bezeq int blames them15:33
ZogG_laptopit's funny how they fuck you and you know it but you can't do anything15:33
MohammadAGah, gotta love how separated bezeq and bezeq int are15:33
ZogG_laptopand what is this free wifi adv, they actually think that if they allow me to use my home internet to set wifi at home is a feature and they so good to give it for free?15:34
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: it's not only bezeq and bezeq int it's all companies, they have 2. one lines and one internet. IDIOTIC15:34
ZogG_laptopas hot has cables for tv and they have internet and basically it's same cable15:35
MohammadAGI thought free Internet is random hotspots around the country15:35
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: you can't have one company to provide internet15:35
MohammadAGLots of Bezeq Wifis here in JRS15:35
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: is it? i thought of it too but as i know bezeq i bet it's not15:35
ZogG_laptopso at least they did a good thing15:36
ZogG_laptopare they gonna sell ipads now so they did that free wifi thing?15:36
ZogG_laptopsneaky bastards15:36
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: do you have 2 companies who gives you internet? i mean ISP and cable? or it's the same one?15:37
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: 850 btw15:38
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: if that question is related to then it's off-topic15:40
DocScrutinizer05since that box is hosted by hetzner15:41
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: nope to your homw internet15:41
DocScrutinizer05wire and gateway15:41
ZogG_laptop2 companies?15:41
ZogG_laptop914 btw :)15:41
DocScrutinizer05nope, t-mo15:41
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: and we have only option for 2 companies and if you have problem they blame each other :P15:42
ZogG_laptop935 KB/s15:42
ZogG_laptopand getting faster15:42
ZogG_laptopwould it hit 1MB or not :)15:42
DocScrutinizer05well, hetzner should allow 100 times that15:42
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I see ~8Mb/s out here15:43
DocScrutinizer05on munin15:44
DocScrutinizer05and an addtitional 10 processes15:44
ZogG_laptopand getting faster15:45
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i think Bezeq heard us :)15:45
ZogG_laptopthey sniffed the conversation15:45
MohammadAGI miss hacking on Harmattan15:46
MohammadAGFucking grub15:46
DocScrutinizer05my fsckng t-mo DSL is 2Mb/s downlink15:46
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DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: if that Bezeq are such fscktards to filter and block and limit bandwidth, how about a proxy via VPN then?15:58
DocScrutinizer05or simple ssh-forwarding15:59
mankeliZogG_laptop: who is that hoarder?15:59
ZogG_laptopmankeli: damagespline - the one who ported Wazr15:59
ZogG_laptopand his only n900 1 n950 and 1 n915:59
ZogG_laptopother n9 and n950 are mine :P15:59
mankeliah :)16:00
MohammadAGTwo N950s on a table16:00
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: 2 N9 as well rare :)16:00
DocScrutinizer05well, for sure a rare sight16:00
DocScrutinizer05I think I should take another up-to-date snapshot of my zoo16:01
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: there was other n9 as well16:01
DocScrutinizer05~20 devices16:01
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: post it here plz )16:01
macmaNZogG_laptop: youre booting gentoo on the n950?16:02
ZogG_laptopmacmaN: funtoo :)16:02
ZogG_laptopmacmaN: it doesn't do after that :P16:02
ZogG_laptop as i think display update script is working all the time16:02
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cityLightshi MohammadAG, was up?16:06
cityLightsany hot news? tizen phones on sale?16:06
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: btw did you ask tizen for a phone, npm got one16:09
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rzra phone or prototype ?16:18
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: here you are:
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: the 20th device been IroN900 in my hand which took the photos16:20
rzri got a qt green phone u miss16:23
DocScrutinizer05rzr: dang16:23
DocScrutinizer05rzr: when I heard of them, they already suggested OM GTA01 since they discontinued hw production16:25
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DocScrutinizer05(btw I didn't place any antiquities like Nokia 2110 or 6210 etc there on that zoo, they live in a different box ;-D)16:26
rzru need the tizen devdevice too16:31
rzri can find one for sale16:31
DocScrutinizer05meh, I don't plan to go that route right now16:39
DocScrutinizer05re-re-re-re-invention of "the wheel", and I don't see the appeal in going for the 4th permutation of "sorry devs, we scrapped it once more, please all move to system XY now, cause THAT is the future for sure. We swaer it is! REALLY!"16:42
DocScrutinizer05honestly I'd rather go for android than for tizen16:43
Lava_Croftexcept android is a mess16:46
DocScrutinizer05qt-e, OM2007, qtmoko, SHR, maemo, maemo-qt, mer, meego1, meego-Nokia, tizen... and none except maemo delivered. I'm through with that game16:46
Lava_Croftmy Nexus7 would be so much better if it just ran maemo or meego:<16:46
Lava_Crofti agree on that, DocScrutinizer05 !16:46
DocScrutinizer05esp since I for sure forgot a few16:47
Lava_CroftMaemo indeed did deliver16:47
Lava_Croftstill does!16:47
Lava_CroftN9 is still being sold by nokia iirc16:47
DocScrutinizer05N9 isn't maemo in my book16:48
Lava_Croftits totally maemo to me!16:48
DocScrutinizer05it an abomination between maemo6 and some insanity inspired by dalvik and tivo16:48
Lava_Croftit certainly is more maemo than meego16:48
Lava_Croftactually im having trouble finding anything meego in it16:49
DocScrutinizer05wtf is meego in the end?16:49
Lava_Crofta really bad linux distro i had on my netbook?16:49
Lava_CroftMeego is also kind of the future, with jolla and all16:50
DocScrutinizer05aah, yep. there've been netbooks with meego, yep. Seems right16:50
Lava_Croftdoesnt seem theres much options left16:50
Lava_Croftthe Meego netbook UX was horrible16:50
Lava_Croftmoblin 2.016:50
Lava_Crofttoo bad people dont just port maemo to my nexus716:51
Lava_Croft'just' :)16:51
DocScrutinizer05I'm still undecided about whether I prefer maemo5 or maemo4 desktop/UI16:51
Lava_Croftmaemo5 all the way16:51
DocScrutinizer05and I know for sure I hate 'maemo'6 UI16:52
Lava_Crofti dont hate ui's16:52
Lava_Croftthats just childish16:52
Lava_Croftbut for a smartphone, the n916:52
DocScrutinizer05along with 75% of the other aspects16:52
Lava_Crofter, the n9's is doing great16:52
Lava_Croftsure is better than both android and ios16:52
DocScrutinizer05haven't touched either16:52
Lava_Croftmy wife has iphone, we have Nexus7 too16:52
Lava_Croftandroid looks way better than ios16:53
Lava_Croftbut ios is way smoother overall16:53
Lava_Croftonly ios has wtf design16:53
Lava_Crofti mean, you have a podcast app and the background is this tape deck16:53
Lava_Croftfrom the 70s16:53
Lava_Croftofficial apple app16:53
DocScrutinizer05the 'has XY design" alone is a nogo16:53
Lava_Croftthat company is schizo when it comes to design16:53
Lava_Croftandroid is a way better way to go16:53
Lava_Croftwindows phone actually looks and feels better than android16:54
DocScrutinizer05I have my own design, I don't need the ideas of a designer on crack16:54
Lava_Croftbut it cant even do the shit ios does16:54
Lava_Croftso its basically useless apart from looking at it16:54
DocScrutinizer05I'm not chosing the distro for my desktop PC by color of the wallpaper, why should I on my phone?16:54
Lava_Croftpeople dont choose the phone for the colour of the wallpaper16:55
Lava_Croftsince they know they can change the wallpaper16:55
DocScrutinizer05oh, you can?16:55
Lava_Croftfirst thing my wife did when she got her first iphone16:55
rzr<Lava_Croft> except android is a mess16:55
DocScrutinizer05probably alomst the only thing you actually can change on iOS and android and wincrap16:55
Lava_Croftandroid can change quite a bit more than ios and wp716:55
rzri fear tizen is messy too at least the html5 apis ...16:55
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Lava_Croftandroid isnt maemo, but you use different apps than the stock ones for stuff like the launcher/desktop orso16:56
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Lava_Croftfor customized, its a good tradeoff between ios and maemo16:56
Lava_Croftbut, as you probably guessed16:56
Lava_Croftany proper customizing costs you $$$16:56
Lava_Croftfrom the android store:P16:56
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DocScrutinizer05and when I hear that my pocket PC shall run all 'apps' in either a java or dalvik or qtm or html5 sandbox, it's already "screwit!"16:57
Lava_Croftwell, im an end user16:57
Lava_Croftif they can deliver, i dont care in what form16:57
Lava_Croftas long as they deliver16:57
Lava_Croftandroid can kind of deliver for a basic smartphone OS, if you have uber hardware16:58
Lava_Croftuber on comparison to what maemo5 or 6 needs to run well16:58
Lava_Croftmeh i can sometimes just get a tad angry over nokia screwing maemo16:58
Lava_Croftbut then i thankfully make myself remember that this is a first-world problem the size of nokia's losses16:59
Lava_Croftand quit caring about it:)16:59
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: awesome17:59
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: I don't want "them" to deliver anything I can't configure to my liking18:01
DocScrutinizer05and quite obviously you can't deliver everything you like on either of those sandboxes, since your functions / toolbox is limited to what is allowed/provided by the sandbox. See HARM and indicator-LED for example18:03
DocScrutinizer05I'm not user, I'm at very least power-user18:04
DocScrutinizer05even admin and/or developer18:04
DocScrutinizer05if I was a humble user, I probably wouldn't care about maemo or meego or whatever, and already have bought one of the mainstream smartphones, and enjoy siri18:05
DocScrutinizer05and the spying it does on me18:05
DocScrutinizer05since "they deliver"18:06
DocScrutinizer05however my first take on getting rid of my beloved y2k Nokia 6210 after 7 years been the mantra "I want a proper linux running on my phone, so *I* can fix all the annoyances/bugs I suffered from on that featurephone"18:07
DocScrutinizer05that's when I first heard about Openmoko and thought "now THAT is the device I want"18:08
DocScrutinizer05it's fugly like hell, but it has true linux running on it18:09
DocScrutinizer05so if I think the dialer accept / reject buttons are plain wrong, I can replace them with slider type "switches" myself18:10
DocScrutinizer05I can fix redial the way it oughta be18:10
DocScrutinizer05(double press 'green' to restart a call)18:11
Venemo_N9I thought you actually worked at openmoko18:11
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't do that on maemo5 since dialer been closed source18:11
DocScrutinizer05I can't do that on meago6 since it's locked down by aegis delibarately18:12
DocScrutinizer05Venemo_N9: yep, I did18:12
Venemo_N9you can do that on Nemo18:12
DocScrutinizer05I was excited about that device and concept, and thus eventually joined the company18:12
Venemo_N9nice! :)18:13
DocScrutinizer05now I'm excited about Nemo and jolla, but it seems it's not that simple to join there and contribute18:14
DocScrutinizer05and I have less reason to feel excited about jolla than I had with OM18:15
Venemo_N9I'll be excited about them when they deliver18:15
Venemo_N9Nemo however is a place where I can just go there and make it better18:16
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid I'lll be angry and disappointed when they deliver18:16
DocScrutinizer05Venemo_N9: well, you maybe can do that, I'm EE though18:16
DocScrutinizer05the EE ambassador to sw-department18:17
DocScrutinizer05and EE department's final QA18:17
DocScrutinizer05and for all that the candy is eaten when they roll out the hw18:17
Venemo_N9it was once my dream to become an EE18:17
DocScrutinizer05well, I started with that when I been 5 years old ;-)18:19
DocScrutinizer05so I probably won't excel better in any other domain18:19
DocScrutinizer05and it's really a pitty when jolla will suffer from hw bugs in their first device that could've been catched by me if only they considered to contract me to review their schematics18:21
Venemo_N9DocScrutinizer05, why don't you contact them?18:22
DocScrutinizer05I already did18:22
VelmontEE? Electrical Engineering somesuch?18:22
DocScrutinizer05no feedback yet18:22
DocScrutinizer05Velmont: yep18:22
Venemo_N9yeah, I was always interested in EE, actually I'm studying it. but I'm not any good.18:23
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DocScrutinizer05well, I built my first Z80 'computer' in ~197918:28
DocScrutinizer05but I started with LS74xx TTL chips some 6 yeras earlier18:30
DocScrutinizer05and of course transistor circuits before that18:31
Venemo_N9I haven't done anything like that18:32
DocScrutinizer05when I been 7, I "re-invented" Marconi's original transmitter - the one without any tuning to a certain frequency. The poor neighbours ;-P18:35
Venemo_N9what do you do now for a living?18:37
DocScrutinizer05atm debugging modem chips18:37
DocScrutinizer05I.E. the cmt firmware18:37
Venemo_N9is it interesting?18:38
DocScrutinizer05you might have bought some of my work in a new SG-x18:38
Venemo_N9what is SG-x?18:38
djszapi_Venemo_N9: :)18:38
DocScrutinizer05Samsung Galaxy18:38
DocScrutinizer05or RIM18:39
DocScrutinizer05google for NovaThor18:39
Venemo_N9sorry doc, I didn't buy anything from them18:40
Venemo_N9djszapi_, interesting18:42
djszapi_Venemo_N9: everybody does that, c'mon on... :)18:43
Venemo_N9djszapi_, I'm quite the opposite, I don't really have free time during my day job18:44
djszapi_too bad for you :p18:44
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Venemo_N9I'll be back later18:45
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robertjwiptables errors out from a devel-su shell with a "you must be root" message.  any tips on how to run iptables in harmattan?18:53
djszapi_even in developer mode?18:54
djszapi_with the developer user?18:54
djszapi_what command exactly have you run?18:54
robertjw/sbin/iptables -L -vn18:54
djszapi_someone used iptables previously, but it is not fully functional.18:55
djszapi_try to figure out what credentials you would need for your stuff18:55
djszapi_and check on the wikipage, if that is provided from OVI/devel-shell.18:55
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djszapi_if devel-su+sh does not help, you cannot do much.18:56
djszapi_with the "official" way.18:57
kulveis it possible to somehow get MIDIs as a ringing tone?18:57
robertjwand the unofficial way?18:57
djszapi_robertjw: I do not care about the unofficial way, sorry.18:57
robertjwactually, I only care about A way.  This crippled root on my n9 is starting to get tiresome.18:58
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robertjwdevel_su and then develsh:  that's the magic for running iptables19:09
djszapi_you mean devel-su19:09
robertjwcorrect, sorry19:09
djszapi_I was asking that previously, and you said it did not help. :O19:09
robertjwI had the devel-su, but I had not previously tried develsh19:10
djszapi_I still think that, not everything will be allowed19:10
djszapi_so good luck19:10
robertjwthanks, I'll poke around with it and see what capability we have19:10
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jonnirobertjw: devel-su+develsh is enough to run iptables20:45
djszapi_jonni: not all the functionalities.20:45
djszapi_(without unofficial hacks, for sure)20:46
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jonnidjszapi_: what functionalities you thing that is missing?20:55
jonnithink even20:56
djszapi_which is not supported by the kernel20:56
jonniwell sure, but all the iptables functionality that system script uses by default is avail with develsh20:56
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djszapi_I was not referring to "system scripts".20:59
jonniyes, nat is not compiled in by default, so ofcourse that is not avail, but iptables with the all kernel default modules work with develsh.20:59
djszapi_I was saying that not all the functionlities are available.20:59
jonniafaik question was what was required to run iptables-binary, and develsh is enough for that.21:00
djszapi_no, the question was with a certain iptable run21:00
djszapi_and I told the answer21:00
djszapi_and it was enough :)21:00
djszapi_you have seconded me, thanks21:00
djszapi_and I mentioned not all the iptables functionalities are  available21:01
djszapi_also, net_admin was not available back then21:01
djszapi_we have added that later21:01
djszapi_so you were even unable to set up own rules.21:01
djszapi_we were nice about that. =)21:02
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* DocScrutinizer05 deletes the "bwahaha" he typed21:22
* DocScrutinizer05 deletes the "oh thank you very much" as well21:22
DocScrutinizer05makes me happy every single time I hear somebody allowing me generously to do some normal stuff on my own device, on _his_ discretion21:24
DocScrutinizer05pretty please, may I also switch patterns of indicator LED on my device? would you be that kind?21:25
DocScrutinizer05WTF devel-su/develsh has *any* restrictions?21:28
DocScrutinizer05rather than a proper unique password by default21:29
DocScrutinizer05if you're afraid of fraud fake password query, define a hw key to pop up that query which can't get faked by rogueware, like windows ctrl-alt-del21:31
DocScrutinizer05but wait, that wouldn't allow to guarantee main purpose of aegis: "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."21:32
DocScrutinizer05I.E. protection FROM user21:32
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DocScrutinizer05I'm still waiting for that awesome third party software21:34
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piggzlo *21:35
DocScrutinizer05media player with CSS that diesn't output videos to AV-plug so they can't get copied? Neither content provider nor player in sight21:36
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djszapi_ajalkane o/21:40
DocScrutinizer05instead we got a fsckdup linux that pretends to protect us from malware sending SMS to expensive destinations or exposing private data via internet, both an obvious hoax21:40
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ajalkanedjszapi_: o/21:44
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robertjwis there a squid package in one of the repositories?22:23
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rZrlet m check that22:36
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rZrrobertjw,  not on obs i am importing one22:38
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rZrrobertjw, i'll need your help to fix openldap22:41
djszapi_robertjw: don't you use apt-cache search22:44
djszapi_or the obs search field?22:44
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rZrdjszapi_, can you help robertjw w/
djszapi_rZr: help with what?23:19
djszapi_Do not touch my home directory pls :D23:19
rZrplease :)23:20
djszapi_please what?23:21
rZrcan you fix that package for robertjw ... I would if I wasnt busy23:22
* djszapi_ is busy, too23:23
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