IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2012-07-11

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* DocScrutinizer05 prepares for prospering remove-hello-kitty mod shop00:29
DocScrutinizer05will also sell tiny rubber feet to make the hw kbd sit flush on table. $7.99/set_of_400:33
DocScrutinizer05actually Nokia learnt that lesson from N900 when designing case for N95000:35
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DocScrutinizer05they also seem to have learnt lesson about using thru-hole usb receptacle00:36
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DocScrutinizer05judging from snap-on flap-lid for USB apperture it seems they even learnt to augment drop-test specs to include "unusual usecases" like "device plugged to charger while dropping"00:38
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rigofound it: mine wants developer-mode_1.22 and on there is only developer-mode_1.18+0m6_armel.deb00:47
rigobut how can I tell it to load the older one... this is buried in the deb-dependencies that drove me crazy when still using debian00:48
rigoit even wants developer-mode_1.48+0m6_armel.deb00:50
rigoprobably a typo in the install :(00:50
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azeemdeveloper-mode_1.48+0m6 is what is installed on my PR1.3 N901:03
rigowhich repository so I can download from PC and install manually01:04
rigobecause I have weird connection issues with the phone in the SFR network at the moment and my wireless connection is not loved either01:04
azeem     1.48+0m6 001:04
azeem        500 ./ Packages01:04
azeem     1.18+0m6 001:05
azeem        500 harmattan/sdk/free Packages01:05
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rigoit changed behavior01:09
rigonow it does not even give a failure message anymore. It just returns to the previous screen with dev-mode turned off01:09
rigoI get access denied when trying to download the package01:12
azeemwell, the server just denies everything01:13
delphiwow, i spent a week porting rdesktop, just to find out that there is already FreeRDP ported :/01:16
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rigoazeem, that explains why I don't get any software out of it. So how on earth do I get my developer mode running?01:22
azeembeats me :-/01:26
azeemnote that my sources.list has some user:password fields for the downloads.m.n.c line01:27
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rigoazeem, yes, I have ./ and apps and tools in other uris replacing 00101:53
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gambitrexhello, I have some doubts about an account plugin (qml) named waxmppplugin07:10
gambitrexanyone can help?07:10
gambitrexactually, is this the right place?07:10
itsnotabigtruckgambitrex: i'm guessing the wa is whatsapp?07:11
itsnotabigtruckand about as good as any, really07:11
gambitrexFirst: really noob in Qt here. I need to build an app, and I like very much the UI from Wazapp.07:12
gambitrexSo I am looking the source code, and the author says it's called waxmppplugin07:12
gambitrexI tought it was an "official" plugin or something07:13
gambitrexbut as you're saying, seems like he did all by himself07:13
gambitrexis that correct?07:13
gambitrexactually my app will show all contacts as well, so that's why I was trying to use the same plugin or something07:14
gambitrexI just finished the "background" part (retrieve all contacts based on a search criteria, and a lot of other stuffs), now I need to show all contacts (name and picture) in a list07:15
itsnotabigtruckit's certainly not official in any way07:15
gambitrexI see07:15
itsnotabigtrucki don't know much about it, i wasn't even aware the source was out07:15
gambitrexyes, it is:
itsnotabigtruckwhat sort of application is this07:16
itsnotabigtruckthe proper way to do an im app is to write a telepathy "connection manager"07:16
itsnotabigtrucki.e. a backend that connects to an im network07:16
gambitrexno, it's not an IM07:16
gambitrexbasically, here in Brazil (some states) there will be added a new digit in phone numbers07:17
gambitrexit was 8-digit, now will be 9-digit07:17
gambitrexso people will need to manually change their contacts07:17
gambitrexadd '9' before the number07:17
itsnotabigtruckoh lovely :p07:17
gambitrexand I want to help people to do that change07:17
itsnotabigtruckso why an accounts plugin? i think you can just make a utility that loops over all your contacts and puts in a 907:18
gambitrexno, because there are some rules07:18
gambitrexnot all numbers07:18
itsnotabigtrucki think contacts are stored in tracker, which is a much-hated sql database07:18
gambitrexonly cellphones and only a few states07:18
gambitrexno problem, I am able to do that already07:18
gambitrexI spent some hours to do that, and that part is done07:18
gambitrexconsider that only phones from some area (states) will be changed07:19
gambitrexeg phones that start with 011-XXXX-XXXX will be 011-9XXXX-XXXX07:19
gambitrexthat I can do, no problem07:19
gambitrexyou can save the phone number WITHOUT the area code, so phone numbers like KKKK-KKKK could be from area 11 or not07:20
gambitrexso, for that number, I need to allow the user to decide if that number is from someone from *given* state or not07:20
itsnotabigtruckwhere does the account plugin come in...07:21
gambitrexfor that, I can list all contacts. Once you tap a contact, I show the phone numbers for that contact, and you can select or not that phone number07:21
itsnotabigtruckthis still sounds like a one-time thing the user runs that's separate from any account stuff07:21
itsnotabigtruckkeep it simple!07:21
gambitrexbut the user must select the phone number by contact that will be changed07:22
itsnotabigtruckcould make it a nice gui app that prompts the user when it's time to make some hard decisions07:22
gambitrexnot sure if you get it.07:22
gambitrexfor example, someone named Jack07:22
gambitrexJack is from area 11, and he has 3 phone numbers in my contact07:23
gambitrexJack_Phone1 is 011-XXXX-XXXX <== for that I can automatically change07:23
gambitrexJack_Phone2 is YYYY-YYYY <== I cannot tell if I should add a new digit or not, because 1. I dont know if it's a cellphone and 2. I dont know if it's from area 1107:24
gambitrexso, for all people, I show them in a list (THE PLUGIN)07:24
itsnotabigtruckoh ok...maybe the name threw me off07:24
itsnotabigtrucki thought you were talking about an accounts plugin07:25
gambitrexand then the user selects for ALL contacts the phone number that will be changed07:25
itsnotabigtruckthe thing that shows up in the accounts app07:25
itsnotabigtruckwhat you want is a gui that lists contacts07:25
itsnotabigtrucka la wazapp07:25
gambitrexthe plugin!07:25
itsnotabigtrucknot a plugin07:25
itsnotabigtruckwell, should be a matter of studying the wazapp code and the nokia docs07:25
itsnotabigtrucksounds like you're most of the way there with the tracker stuff07:25
gambitrexyes, but I tought that there was a plugin or something, that allows me to show a list of contacts out-of-the-box07:26
gambitrexpretty much like a button is out-of-the-box, for example07:26
gambitrexin QtCreator07:26
gambitrexdid I made myself clear?07:27
itsnotabigtruckdon't think so, but again, look through the wazapp code :p07:27
itsnotabigtrucki didn't write it >_> but tgalal did07:27
itsnotabigtruckhe isn't here much though07:27
itsnotabigtrucki think he only shows up to ask questions, isn't into the whole harmattan social scene :p07:27
gambitrexOK, I will look the source code... it's quite complicated to me, because I started to play with Qt today, so it will take some time07:28
gambitrexand BTW, I really suck to build UI07:28
gambitrexthank you for your time and patience07:29
gambitrexalso, do I need to ask him permission to use any snippets from his code?07:30
itsnotabigtruckwhat license is it under07:30
gambitrexdont know, lemme check07:30
itsnotabigtruckif it's some variety of gpl, be advised of the implications of transferring any code07:30
itsnotabigtruckif it's a permissive license like mit or bsd, do whatever you want with the code as long as you copy the license banner including copyright statement into each file that the code touches07:31
itsnotabigtruckok, so your entire program has to be gpl2 or gpl3, if you incorporate wazapp code07:31
itsnotabigtruckand the files that contain wazapp code need to include tgalal's copyright line plus your own07:31
itsnotabigtruckall files need to have the gpl comment header with copyright lines07:31
gambitrexok then. will do that07:32
gambitrexthanks again07:32
itsnotabigtruckof course if you don't actually incorporate wazapp code you can do whatever07:32
itsnotabigtruckwell, generally speaking07:33
gambitrexyes, I think I will use the *idea*, but it will be different07:34
gambitrexI will use the code to learn about the elements07:34
gambitrexand events (onClick, and so on)07:34
gambitrexbut I like the scrollbar, and another stuff07:35
gambitrexlet's see07:35
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gambitrexnothing new, u?07:58
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befordnot much08:10
befordoh GA fixed his n950?08:10
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itsnotabigtruckbeford: he did?08:23
itsnotabigtruckearlier today he was having major trouble with it08:23
befordGAN950 == GeneralAntilles08:24
befordso I guess he did it :p08:24
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niwakameanyone using QSettings here?08:58
niwakameSometimes it's not saving for me09:01
ieatlinti use it, works for me09:02
ieatlintnote that it's per user though... running something via qtcreator on the phone will store things into a different db vs running it as a user on the device09:02
niwakamereally? the config file is created in user .config dir for me while using QtCreator09:03
ieatlintthat's unusual, as qtcreator logs in as 'developer'09:04
niwakameBut sometimes the values are simply not stored, I read up yesterday to destroy the QSettings object, because it will write out when being deleted09:04
ieatlintjust make sure you set the parent for qsettings09:04
ieatlintyou don't need to destroy it yourself explicitly09:05
niwakameThing is here I want to separate the code a bit and created a own settings class which does other things, but primarily uses QSettings09:06
niwakameand I want that to be persistent09:06
niwakameyou're right btw about /home/developer/.config09:07
ieatlintyeah, just commented in the chance that could somehow be the issue09:07
ieatlintok, so it sounds like qsettings isn't being destroyed correctly09:08
niwakameI have getter and setter methods for the properties09:08
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niwakameand now I'll try something like...09:08
niwakameQSettings settings(a, b);09:08
ieatlintdoes your custom class for settings that includes a qsettings object inherit qobject?09:08
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niwakamebut before it wasn't destroyed anyway09:09
niwakameonly on app exit09:09
ieatlintare you setting the parent when you create the instance of your custom class and when you create the qsettings class?09:09
ieatlintalso, qsettings should be kept to a pointer09:10
niwakameok it was before...hmmm I think I missed to pass the parent to QSettings directly09:10
ieatlintwell, without a parent set or you explictly destroying it, the qsettings deconstructor will never be called09:11
ieatlintit'll be treated like leaked mem, simply freed09:11
niwakamewill the QSettings class cache all changed values?09:11
ieatlintnot sure, don't know the internals of it really09:12
niwakameok then I'll fix up the parent and try again09:12
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ieatlintyeah, it's a good place to start regardless.. good programming practice09:12
niwakameWell Qt is somewhat new for me09:13
ieatlintthe parent is used for garbage collection09:13
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ieatlintgood practice says any qobject should be a pointer and have a parent set,09:14
niwakameI'm just used to having that being set inexplicit upon creation in other langs09:14
ieatlintif the parent is set, then you don't have to worry about it being destroyed on exit09:14
niwakamemaybe a problem, but I'll keep your advice in mind :>09:14
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ieatlinti came from c where it felt dirty to pull things from the heap and let something else delete/free them, you get used to it :P09:16
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niwakameI only do scientific Java and C# programming for a living09:17
niwakameSo it's the other way around xD09:18
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niwakameBut it's good that segfaulting isn't as easy as in C09:18
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ieatlinthah, yeah09:19
niwakameshould I use the QApplication as topmost parent?09:20
ieatlintwell, another reason to keep qobjects in pointers.. put a qobject on the stack with a parent set, and you'll get a segfault :)09:20
ieatlintnah, qapplication isn't a qobject09:21
ieatlintthe top level qobject won't have a parent set09:21
ieatlint(the top level qobject you typically also leave on the stack [ie, no pointer])09:22
niwakameah ok09:22
niwakameusing new just seems more natural to me :>09:23
ieatlintthe deconstructor won't get called if you use 'new'09:23
niwakameyou mean at the topmost level?09:24
niwakameyeah therefore my intuition was to tie it to QApplication ^^09:25
niwakameBut this should be okay with using stack now...09:26
ieatlintthe top level qobject has its deconstructor called when the program exits, and it then calls the deconstructor of all of its children, who call the deconstructor of their children, etc09:26
niwakameI only have to supply references now, because I have to use one QSettings object there and not multiple instances09:27
niwakameoh gosh, this xchat theme is giving me visual illusions09:28
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niwakameit will definitely bring pixel memories to remember to kids playing on this09:30
niwakameIt's sad that nowadays youth is all about graphics realism when you grew up on Turrican or Monkey Island :>09:31
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niwakameieatlint: works! thanks!09:53
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ieatlintnie :)09:55
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vladestieatlint: running app under qtcreator means running for different user ie different settings location10:14
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niwakamevladest: he told me already :)10:16
vladestok :)10:17
niwakameproblem was only that I didn't do the parent structure right and therefore it wouldn't write out changes due to not being destroyed but garbage collected10:17
niwakameOk let's prepare for picking up my RaspberryPi :>10:22
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unreal-hello internet!12:09
unreal-i've got an interesting bug since i updated to 1.3: if I open the store, select any app, and choose "Reviews", the loading icon goes around and around, and nothing ever loads12:11
jreznikunreal-: it was broken before pr 1.3, at least for me (if I understand it correctly)12:14
unreal-mmmm, well it seems it's the other way around for me12:15
unreal-because it used to work (pr 1.2), and now it does not (pr 1.3)12:15
rigounreal, have the same bug12:15
unreal-oh good! i'm not alone!12:16
unreal-no workaround?12:16
unreal-<joke>maybe they'll fix it in 1.4</joke>12:20
gabriel9|worki also have that bug :/12:21
gabriel9|workmaybe the issue is in store(server side)12:21
phakounreal-: it was already broken on 1.2, this is a apparently a server-side bug12:22
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rigosince 1.3 my N9 shows the 3G symbol on top, but isn't connected. This is weird.. rebooting12:33
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mf2hdrigo: mine did the same today, 3g symbol switched between white and blue and internet connection was broken. Rebooting did not help, but problem went away by itself after ~30min12:51
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unreal-i believe i had that bug as well12:54
unreal-it's nice to see nokia has added some new bugs ;)12:54
mf2hdaye :/12:56
mf2hdsomething new at least :P12:56
unreal-at least we get value for money ;)12:57
unreal-(but the be quite honest, PR1.3 is a good release, I have very few bugs left)12:57
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unreal-if PR1.4 is ever released, i'll defintely wait for user feedback before updating, because 1.3 is working fine12:59
mf2hdyeah, but imho that 3g bug is quite bad13:00
mf2hdworst this far13:00
unreal-euh, for me the killer bug was PR 1.2 ;)13:01
unreal-worst bug ever :p13:01
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mf2hdi skipped 1.2 :P13:05
mf2hdtried once and updater was screwed allready just with additional repos so, ty bye cya thx... ;)13:06
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paunreal-, i dont know what you are talking about13:21
pa1.2 was working fine for me13:21
pa1.3 sucks, phone goes slower and the battery lasts 30% less13:22
unreal-well for me it didn't fix one single bug i was having, and was a slow as hell13:22
unreal-at least 1.3 fixes some bugs13:22
pafor me 1.3 is way slower than 1.213:22
paeven the ui is not smooth anymore13:22
unreal-i do not agree13:23
pamaybe i have to reflash, then13:23
pai will try, as soon as i will feel brave enough to reinstall the apps13:23
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clauhi, does anybody know if icd2 is opensource?13:26
mf2hd13:22:09 < pa> 1.3 sucks, phone goes slower and the battery lasts 30% less13:26
mf2hdi think too that there is some more powerdrain than before13:27
SpeedEvilclau: It i not13:27
clauI am trying to automate openvpn on n913:27
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clauand right now it connects automatically when an interface comes up, icd2 notifies the rest of the system of the new connection before openvpn establishes a connection and the mail app will give an error13:28
clauit recovers after a few minutes, but it's still a bit unpleasent13:28
mf2hdpowerdrain could be related to 3g bug?13:28
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pamf2hd, i dont think so13:42
pai have the device in 2g mode13:42
paand even in flight mode, it does it13:42
pabut it seems to me that the ui is also slower now13:42
paanimations are not smooth anymore13:42
pabut i upgraded ota, maybe i should try to reflash before confirming13:43
pathe problem is reinstalling all the apps13:43
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rigonow 3G connected for the first time fine in roaming13:48
rigobut with SFR it doesn't connect13:48
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rigoeven if I disconnect, it doesn't stop the idle13:49
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NecrosporusIs it true all the harmattan developers are fired from Nokia?14:13
NecrosporusNokia N9 would be good, but it doesn't have hardware keyboard14:14
NecrosporusAnd N950 is not available for buyers14:14
NecrosporusAlso microsim and no microSD14:14
denism1"harmattan developers are fired from Nokia" - it is absolutely not true.14:15
denism1I have a lot of friend who have worked for N9 and who is still employed by Nokia14:15
vladestdenism1:  ask your friend when we will get pr1.3 for n950 plz14:17
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denism1vladest: I have not said that they are working for Harmattan _now_ :) They are working for Nokia :)14:17
vladestdenism1: learning .net and html5? :>14:18
denism1vladest: :)14:18
Lava_Croftadaptation is a good thing14:19
vladestits not adaptation, its rolling back14:19
Lava_Croftits adaptation14:19
Lava_Croftviews on wethers its forwards of backwards differ14:19
vladestin terms of new modern Nokia - yes.14:19
vladestin terms of personal growth - no14:20
Lava_Croftin terms of mainstream smartphones, its forward14:20
Lava_Croftbut in terms of common sense mobile computing, wellll14:20
* vladest hates mainstrems14:20
mf2hdpa, i installed via flash and i dont have any ui lag issues more than before, but batterydrain is worse than before14:21
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unreal-BTW, i don't understand why OTA updates should be a problem for nokia14:33
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unreal-they use apt, it's tried and tested technology... what are they doing wrong?14:34
pagood question14:34
denism1yes it is tried and tested technology - and there are hundreds of ways to mess up the device14:34
pabut it's the same on ubuntu or debian14:34
pawhen you do distribution upgrade, it can well happen that your distro gets messed up14:35
paeven they always suggest to do a clean installation14:35
jonnimost of the times it works, usually failures are end users fault as they have added custom repoes, inception/system-ui etc.14:42
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jonniota works for people who never have enabled developer mode, and in the other hand if you have enabled developer mode, you are expected to solve the problems that you caused yourself :)14:46
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pajonni, so performance should be as fast as reflashing?14:47
pacoz here it seems slower14:47
jonnipa: I havent noticed any performance or battery impacts on PR1.3. Usually after PR update tracker might take some more cpu cycles for few days.14:48
jonniofcourse on ota update, you have all your custom old applications as payload, so ofcourse full reflash will be faster, since it has less background processes.14:49
jonnibut ofcourse you can rebuild your tracker db from scratch, use fastern n9 or compcache kludges to speedup even more.14:51
Lava_CroftI have to mail my broken N9 to Nokia14:52
Lava_Croftapparently, they are closing ALL their Care Points in the Netherlands14:52
rigopresence costs money. And with the Windows phones there is no presence needed anymore14:53
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Lava_Crofti wonder if when i states that it rains outside14:56
Lava_Croftpeople on IRC will start to explain the cycle of water to me14:56
Lava_Crofti dont think your logic is exactly true either14:56
Lava_Croftthe thing is, presence needs a reason14:56
Lava_Croftif you sell 20 phones a year, who needs a Care Point in every city14:56
Lava_Croftrephrase: 20 phones that you actually support14:57
rigoif you think it to the end, there will remain one office with hardware designers in Helsinki and that's it. Production is in China by sub-corps that produce chips on demand14:57
Lava_CroftNokia is lagging so much behind that by the time Apple moved all factory work to the US14:57
Lava_CroftNokia just finished moving all the factory work to China and Vietnam orso14:57
Lava_Crofti will miss the care points tho14:58
Lava_Croftit was nice to be able to put a face to the giant14:58
Lava_Crofteven tho that someone rarely knew shit about maemo devices that you brought in14:58
Lava_Croftnokia care guys helped me out tremendously with getting my N900 back14:58
Lava_Croftand i mean the local Care Point people14:58
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Lava_Croftthe actual nokia care facilities are full of robots that dont like me as a customer14:59
unreal-and during that time apple is busy putting apple stores everywhere with people that do know how to fix the products they sell14:59
Lava_Croftand just want to send me symbian^3 or lumia devices in exchange for my broken Maemo devices14:59
unreal-nokia win14:59
Lava_Croftunreal-: :)14:59
unreal-i'm not absolutely sure, but it would seem apple's strategy is in fact paying off15:00
unreal-Lava_Croft: however nokia's response is logical15:01
unreal-if you have nothing to sell that anyone wants to buy15:01
unreal-you don't need customer support15:01
Lava_Croftunreal-: I didnt think i was mentioning the closing down in any way that made people think i didnt understand why they were closing down15:01
Lava_Croftbut yeah, you are right15:01
unreal-because that would indeed assume you're actually selling something15:01
unreal-nokia has fixed the "customer support" problem15:02
Lava_Crofti didnt even use a question mark15:02
Lava_Croftnokia itself always was horrible with customer support15:02
Lava_Croftit were the local care point folks, who werent actual Nokia employees, who were nice15:02
Lava_Croftthats why im a bit sad about the care points closing down15:03
Lava_Croftnow i have to communicate directly with the 'central' Nokia Care here in the Netherlands15:03
Lava_Croftand those people cost me about 6 months to get my N900 back15:03
clauregarding moving the production in China... I bought a Nokia N9 white not long ago, it was made in Finland15:04
clauand, sorry to say, it was a piece of crap15:04
clauI had it returned, and bought later a Nokia N9 black, made in China15:05
clauand it works as it is supposed to15:05
clauthe one made in Finland had the following problems: dust got into the back camera15:05
Lava_Croftapparently, it seems that the better N9's are produced in China15:06
Lava_Croftfrom what i read here and there15:06
clauthe vibrator made a sound like it was broken15:06
Lava_Croftmy camera broke:<15:06
clauyeah, it looks like it and it makes me sad15:06
Lava_Croftoh, i dont care where its produced at all15:06
clauI specifically wanted one made in Finland, to avoid helping them exploit the people on the other side of the world15:06
Lava_CroftWhat are those people on the other side of the world going to do without a factory making Nokia phones15:07
claubut you know, only if the quality is the same or better15:07
Lava_Croftgrow rice?15:07
Lava_Croftits exploitation, but its not one-sided15:07
clauagreed, but still we're talking about double standards and so on15:07
Lava_Croftdouble standards are prevalent throughout our world15:07
Lava_Crofti can't really be bothered by that15:08
clauoh well, I would care more if they'd actually produce quality good in Europe15:08
clauafter that I couldn't even find another N9 White15:08
Lava_Croftthat would cost you quite a bit more15:08
Lava_Crofteuropeans are whiners15:09
Lava_Croftand they have unions15:09
clauI waited about 2 months to get the first one, and I couldn't find a replacement15:09
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clauI am a member of the working class too, you know :)15:09
clauI won't complain about being socially protected15:09
clauthough, in Romania I'm protected only theoretically15:10
Lava_CroftI live in the Netherlands15:10
Lava_Crofti can just go outside naked and masturbate in front of someone15:10
Lava_Croftand my life is set15:10
Lava_Croftnever work again15:10
clauawesome :)15:10
Lava_Croftchina is a bit different:)15:10
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clauregarding n9, and specifically meego, what's the news? any future at all? :(15:11
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clauconsidering what I found on the web the future is not too good15:11
clauthe only encouraging news I found recently is this:
claudoesn't yet mean much for n9 owners though15:13
Lava_Croftthere is Jolla indeed15:13
Lava_Croftfor the N9, i dont really think anyone here knows15:13
Lava_Crofti dont even think most people inside nokia know:<15:13
jonnifor harmattan its save to say that N9 is the last product that it will see.15:14
Lava_Croftoh, totally15:14
Lava_Croftits the last maemo device ever15:14
clauyeah, no doubts about it15:14
pafor n9, your best bet of development is nitdroid15:31
paand those open projects to run android and tizen apps on harmattan15:31
pai wonder whether it will ever support camera/gps/other sensors , tho15:32
clauwhat about mer project?15:34
Lava_Crofti rather not use N9 than use nitdroid on it15:38
fluxis it reasonable to write a project that target both harmattan and android? can they share any code?-)15:39
pawhats wrong with nitdroid?15:39
Lava_Croftits droid15:40
paat least its not abandoned :)15:40
Lava_Croftdoesnt make it any better15:41
jonniflux: yes is reasonable, if you write qt/qml application to harmattan, then it should also for in android (if the device has installed Necessitas)15:41
fluxah, forgot about that15:42
jonnishould work even15:42
fluxit seemed pretty complete the last time I saw a video of it15:42
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clauseems like mer supports n9 too:
denism1clau: as I understand, mer does not have any UI15:45
Lava_Croftmer is just the OS core, anyone else can put anything else on top of it15:45
Lava_Croftwell, 'just'15:45
ArkenoiI see just no reason to stick with Nokia hardware if you run android anyway15:46
Elleonemo is mer + a ui15:47
Stskeepsplus a hw adaptation15:47
ElleoIt's just the old MeeGo handset ui though iirc15:47
Stskeepsnot 'just'15:47
Stskeepswe actually polished a fair bit15:47
claucheck this:
Elleooh cool15:47
GeneralAntillesBack to an analog watch. Boo!15:48
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clauso, nemo is a possible alternative for the future, if nokia drops support entirely15:52
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unreal-14:31 < pa> for n9, your best bet of development is nitdroid <-- it's a long long way from being a useable OS :/15:55
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unreal--OS +ROM15:55
jonnifor N9 best development env is harmattan15:55
unreal-i like android, but seriously, what use is a rom without GPS or phonecalls?15:56
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unreal-pa: we've seen many many many android ROM that went nowhere15:56
unreal-so until nitdroid slows it's going somewhere, the best bet for the n9 is harmattan15:57
clauI didn't buy n9 to run android on it :|15:57
unreal-me neither15:57
unreal-but I would like to see a decent ICS/JB ROM for it...15:58
clauI wonder if the hw is enough for ics15:58
clauany clue?15:58
clauI see15:58
unreal-I have ICS running on a really old Motorola Milestone15:58
unreal-it's slow because 256MB of RAM15:59
pawell nitdroid runs well, except for what it doesnt support15:59
unreal-the n9 would run android without any problem15:59
unreal-has anyone been looking at this: ?16:00
pabut if i were google, i would help the project. after all their plan for android 5 is to being installable almost everywhere, coz they want to enlarge their userbase16:00
unreal-the milestone does have some common stuff with the n916:00
unreal-like the GPU, DSP and stuff16:00
payea, i think the hardest part will be the camera16:00
pabut i dont know, im not a kernel hacker16:01
unreal-nadlabak has got the latest TI GPU drivers working on the milestone, and almost the video dsp working16:01
unreal-there's months and months of work there16:01
clauis there any particular reason why we shouldn't put our hopes in nemomobile?16:01
unreal-clau: a didn't but the n9 because it was running linux, i didn't buy it because it was running meego/maemo16:02
unreal-i bought it because the swipe interface was so beautiful16:02
clauyeah, it is. and it's a shame it will be lost :(16:03
unreal-so unless someone manages to produce another beautiful interface, what's the point?16:03
claumyeah, I can understand that16:04
unreal-who cares what's running underneith, what matters is that the SDK allows dev to right beautiful apps, and that the UI is beautiful16:04
unreal-(i need more sleep!)16:05
paunreal-, well, a big plus of harmattan is that it's a linux16:05
clauI can tell you one thing, n9 was the last nokia phone I will own16:05
payou have tons of tools and utilities that you can compile&&use16:06
unreal-never been a big nokia fan... but i was so amazed by the swipe interface, i needed one the instant i saw it16:06
pawell indeed16:07
pai am a bit disappointed that jolla will drop it without even trying to get the IP to keep it16:07
padoes it work out of the box?16:07
Arkenoipa, i doubt Elop will let it go or it is even worth trying16:07
unreal-pa: the HW is pretty too, and since nokia is using the same design for windows phone...16:07
paor still need to be incepted?16:08
paled notifier16:08
MohammadAGonly one package needs to be incepted, an enabler16:08
MohammadAGthe package adds a domain of mine that allows all credentials16:08
paArkenoi, indeed. he will rather kill it. but hey, he's such a good CEO16:08
padoing so good for nokia16:08
Arkenoimost people would rather kill Elop16:09
panic e:)16:09
unreal-a microsoft executive working for a european company... what could possibly go wrong?16:09
MohammadAGnot sure if that's everything16:09
payeah, i had this feeling myself too :)16:09
MohammadAGbut this should reduce user confusion16:09
panot sure some crazy one wont attempt, tho16:10
MohammadAGuser no longer has to figure out how to install something16:10
MohammadAGthey simply apt-get install <package>16:10
chem|stpa: jolla will not support NokiaMeegoUpdates does not mean MerCore-Meego won't be on N9s16:11
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StskeepsMer core and Nemo will continue to come for N950/N9/N900 but there's no internals working on closed bits anymore16:12
MohammadAGin other news, this should allow a CSSU on Harmattan16:12
pawell the question is: can we use harmattan ui on mer/nemo?16:13
MohammadAGbut it'll need inception or open mode16:13
paor at least remake it?16:13
chem|stMohammadAG: cssu? no different system on n9 for good...16:13
MohammadAGchem|st, ?16:14
MohammadAGchem|st, I'm not talking about Jolla16:14
chem|stI am talking about mer16:15
MohammadAGI'm not :P16:15
MohammadAGI'm talking about adding a domain that's higher than Nokia's and provides all tokens16:15
MohammadAGI've done it for a repo I'll be releasing soon16:15
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chem|stsounds like harmattan cssu ;)16:16
MohammadAGno, but it does sound like it :P16:16
MohammadAGthe repo I'm making would house led-event-notifier, unrestricted-system-ui, mt-toggles, quick-status-updater etc16:17
jonnifor better compatibility imho you should just add pgp key to, that way you have same level of trust and ota updates would work16:17
MohammadAGSince this worked out just the way I wanted it, I might write a package manager16:17
MohammadAGjonni, not sure how to do that16:18
MohammadAGand no OTA updates imo16:18
jonniI mean package updates.16:18
MohammadAGno, I meant I don't expect any future OTA updates from Nokia :p16:19
jonniI was meaning like single package updates through ota, like bugfixes to some packages in PR1.316:20
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jonniif you add higher trustlevel, then those will fail, so its better to keep level at same16:20
MohammadAG# they say this is The Right Way (tm) to check for16:21
MohammadAG# scratchbox environment16:21
MohammadAGif [ -L /targets/links/scratchbox.config ]; then16:21
MohammadAG# hehe16:21
MohammadAGWhat's Nokia's trust level?16:21
MohammadAGmine's -10016:21
jonniI've added my personal pgp key to on my device as, its quite simple to do. that way origins dont conflict.16:21
jonnibut inception way was -100, which caused problems for 1.2 to 1.3 upgrade16:22
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MohammadAGadding a .fiasco file to /var/lib/fiasco-flasher/staging/ flashes it at reboot16:22
MohammadAGjust a note :p16:22
MohammadAGjonni, how do you do it then?16:22
jonniyou just add key to aegis manifest and install as you can look for hints in source-policy packages. And hard way is to modify restok and domain files by hand and resign.16:27
jonnibut ofcourse if there never is going to be pr releases or bugfixes to packages, then it doesnt matter. But if you want to be futureproof for possible bugfixes or if by some miracle there is PR1.4, then you might want to consider.16:29
DocScrutinizer05"there'll never be any need for more than 1MB of RAM on any PC"16:30
DocScrutinizer05"32 bit for IP address is more than we ever will need"16:31
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DocScrutinizer05"why use 4 bytes for char* date-year when we can get away with using just 2?"16:32
DocScrutinizer05hi MohammadAG16:33
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, there were people working on those, the MeeGo team is no more16:34
MohammadAGwell, Harmattan team16:34
MohammadAGremote: error: failed to lock refs/heads/master hmm16:34
DocScrutinizer05the original ITF also is no more ;-D16:34
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DocScrutinizer05and we got fremantle-PR1.3.116:36
MohammadAGthere was a team for that :p16:36
DocScrutinizer05when _nobody_ thought we'd see anything like that16:37
DocScrutinizer05actually iirc there was no more team for that16:37
DocScrutinizer05at last not any more a team than is for HARM now16:38
DocScrutinizer05but well, that's all just speculations16:38
DocScrutinizer05fact is you don't want to botch if you know how to do it better16:38
DocScrutinizer05thne otoh... HARM(!)... :-/16:39
MohammadAG example on disabling swipe by nokia16:41
DocScrutinizer05I might as well bother about future of OS/216:41
MohammadAGactually that file has a lot of examples related to X11 handling on MeeGo16:43
MohammadAGI'm amazed, really16:43
MohammadAGepic Fixes: NB#230034 - Low power mode ui is static and burn display16:43
DocScrutinizer05that's quite epic indeed16:45
MohammadAGit's a year ago, wonder how many internal devices they lost that way :p16:45
DocScrutinizer05good example why software department needs an ambassador to "negotiate" to EE/hw16:45
fluxyeah, I wonder when I'll break my n9 with bedside clock ;)16:46
DocScrutinizer05"every noob" knows about OLED burnin16:46
DocScrutinizer05hell, that's why screensavers got invented16:47
DocScrutinizer05back in the times when we used an ancient technology called CRT16:47
MohammadAGyeah, even I know about it16:48
MohammadAG<3 Galaxy SII16:48
DocScrutinizer05duh! was about to paste a wikipedia link16:48
MohammadAGI had something on and kept the display on, it got burned for a day16:49
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DocScrutinizer05duh! was about to paste a wikipedia link16:50
DocScrutinizer05for the youngsters16:50
* DocScrutinizer05 curses his D-Link DR-615 and heads out to get a fritzbox NOW16:51
Lava_Croftyou'd be amazed how many crts are still in use16:51
MohammadAGI still see them, daily16:51
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: where from you harvest those supposedly internal NokiaBugs?16:52
phakoDocScrutinizer: commit message or debian changelog16:54
DocScrutinizer05I thought low power mode UI was closed source16:54
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ^16:58
jonnithats not really epic one, since it was fixed in PR0 images well before any device was in the shop :)16:58
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, ^16:58
MohammadAGjonni, yeah, but it's epic cause they didn't consider it in the first place16:58
DocScrutinizer05should have been part of module design spec16:59
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DocScrutinizer05or whatever Nokia calls this paper17:00
jonniMohammadAG: they did considered it in the first place and was in design spec, that specific bug was just regression that they fixed. Bugs sometimes happends even if design spec says that ui should move. So nothing epic in there.17:02
DocScrutinizer05ok :-D17:03
DocScrutinizer05fair enough17:03
DocScrutinizer05actually it easily slips checks, as nobody usually is watching standby screen for long enough no notice the regression17:05
DocScrutinizer05jonni: sorry for my sarcasm then17:06
jonnisometimes sarcasm is good, there has been epic fails sometimes, but not just on that specific time :)17:07
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jonniI'm just making one of my N9's to be dualboot, step one replace the openmode warning screen with custom one. I ended up in this  looks pretty decent on the boot (I just tested that my custom rle generator works). Next step is to decide if I put nemo or mer on the second partition :)17:22
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jonnigood for anti-theft too, since not that many know how to clear rle from CAL :)17:23
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MohammadAGjonni, /usr/share/osso/rle? :P17:39
jonniyep default rles are in /usr/share/osso/boot/rle17:47
DocScrutinizer05hmmm  nuttin17:52
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DocScrutinizer05 /usr/share/osso/boot/boot.201121/<null>17:55
DocScrutinizer05and that's all in /usr/share/osso17:55
DocScrutinizer05ooh, I guess they "get eaten" on next boot?17:56
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jonninot really only if language changes, and if you trigger openmode to lock cal, then your custom rle stays forever :)17:59
DocScrutinizer05I'm still puzzled by this CAL lock, how it works18:02
DocScrutinizer05just CBA to read those 3000++ pages of SPRUF98D omap TRM again, to check if there's such a thing like HS-lock on oneNAND pages18:04
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall there are locks on NAND, but those usually are unlocked as easily as locked18:04
DocScrutinizer05of course HS architecture *might* intercept there18:05
DocScrutinizer05"trustzone2 or whatever the name of the abomination18:06
DocScrutinizer05but tbh I'd be surprised to find it can't get unlocked18:07
jonniafter reading bootloader code Im not that puzzled anymore, yes bootloader/PA can unlock it, but as kernel nor userspace have access to call unlock then its out of the reach :)18:07
DocScrutinizer05hmm, aiui we can execute arbitrary bootloader?18:08
DocScrutinizer05just that it's not in HS mode anymore18:08
jonnionce bootloader decides thats its locked, then its locked and we cant do anything about it. and no arbitary bootloaders, since that is protected by nokia root ca18:09
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DocScrutinizer05back to hw-unlocking this brick18:09
DocScrutinizer05change bootmode by cutting/grounding a few pins18:10
jonnibut anyways CAL is not that usefull anyways, you can just rewrite the codebits that use cal in openmode.18:10
DocScrutinizer05or simply find a less hostile device18:10
jonni(you can even make custom mtd block device to emulate CAL, that way your openmode works perfectly :D)18:12
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles's device could be revived if cal can be written to18:20
DocScrutinizer05"oops your self destruction unit fired by accident. We're sorry. Sincerly Nokia"18:21
jonniMohammadAG: if openmode has been triggered, then he is out of luck, his options is to wait PR1.3 for N950, or return device to developer relations for replacement (or get R&D cert).18:23
DocScrutinizer05honestly I fail to get the point why I should pay money or spend time on a device/OS that tries to kill me or itself on me touching it18:23
DocScrutinizer05and yeah "it's all just for your security"18:24
jonniwell that one was self caused by replacing repositories cross device boundary.18:24
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter at all18:24
MohammadAGjonni, or make a fiasco with a higher version, but then he can never go back to stock roms18:25
MohammadAGactually he can18:25
MohammadAGfirst and hopefully last time I call it rom18:25
jabispile of crap that no downgrade can be made imo18:27
DocScrutinizer05sorry when I think all my valuable data and assets on a N9 are way more on peril by threat from aegis than by any thief or silly loss of device18:28
DocScrutinizer05or any malware18:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, any ideas where the file that shows what bricks when it's edited is?18:28
infobotmayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }18:28
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MohammadAGprobably not18:29
MohammadAGwonder if this system-services package can be replaced18:30
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MohammadAGohai /usr/sbin/show_malf18:30
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MohammadAGcan someone review a patch? to be sure18:38
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MohammadAGactually it's quite simple, nevermind18:39
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rigodev-mode works again19:50
rigonow playing back my the backup of my user-dir19:51
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MohammadAGanyone got an N9 and feels like testing something?20:02
MohammadAGinception required20:02
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valdur55yea. sure20:03
valdur55give a shoot20:03
MohammadAGvaldur55, pm20:05
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rigoMohammadAG, just repaired mine. No great eagerness to experiment at the moment :-/20:22
MohammadAGguess one N950 test should do20:23
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djszapi|windowsHi! Anybody using miniusb cable between the PC and the Harmattan device with Windows?20:39
djszapi|windowsI wonder what the simplest way is to get the pictures out of the phone I have taken on my Windows box.20:39
djszapi|windowsI do not have internet connection on the phone for uploading to the website.20:40
dm8tbra) it's MICRO USB not mini20:40
MohammadAGdm8tbr, you could've just answered no :P20:41
dm8tbrb) it speaks mass storage mode, what's the problem?20:41
MohammadAGor bluetooth, or ad-hoc20:41
ieatlintmass storage mode is the least painless by far20:42
ieatlintyou'll be there pressing retry for the next hour if you try to do bluetooth20:42
djszapi|windowshmm, yeah, the mass storage mode way is pretty simple, thanks20:43
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djszapi|windowsieatlint: sup20:59
ieatlintnot much..21:01
djszapi|windowsnot much,
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ieatlintheh, the whole game now is less about what nokia will do, and instead about who gets what/who21:05
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gaHi, I have a noob question regarding QML Page component. Anyone?21:09
djszapi|windowsga: go ahead21:10
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gaOK, I started to play with Qt stuff yesterday, and I want to make a really simple app, with a few pages. For that, I have created some .qml files for those pages. For example, I have a file AboutPage.qml which contains a Page component and its id property is pgAbout21:11
gaHow can I push that page to a page stack in another file?21:12
gasomething like this: pageStack.push(AboutPage.pgAbout)?21:12
djszapi|windowshave you checked the basic examples?21:12
gathe ones that come with QtCreator?21:12
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gaI checked some, and as far as I have seen, they put all Pages inside the same file21:13
ieatlintyou want to create an instance of each page in the main.qml...21:13
ieatlinteg AboutPage { id: pgAbout }21:13
ieatlintthen pageStack.push( pgAbout )21:13
djszapi|windowsieatlint: what is not always needed.21:14
ieatlintfor a small program and someone just starting, it's simple and best21:14
gaieatlint: but for that, I need to declare all pages inside one file (main.qml). Right?21:14
djszapi|windowsga: just read the example above.21:14
djszapi|windowsieatlint: well, when I was beginner, I did not instantiate those in the main.qml :p21:15
djszapi|windowswhen the application became heftier, I had to.21:15
gaieatlint: not sure if it's the best option. I know I'm just starting, but the app will (luckly) grow, and the code would be "illegible"21:15
gadjszapi|windows: thank, will check21:15
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ieatlintqml is illegible :P21:15
gaieatlint: good point. :)21:15
ieatlintbut the risk there is less that you'll make it hard to read, and more that you'll declare everything at launch, increasing the memory footprint and load time21:16
djszapi|windowsthe qml launch is already horribly slow :p21:16
gais there any other option to qml?21:16
djszapi|windowsga: assembly ^^21:16
ieatlintheh, there's mtf21:17
ieatlinta qwidget-based set of widgets in the meego style21:17
gadjszapi|windows: djszapi|windows PageStack is only for harmattan? If I want to port my app to maemo5 or symbian, I would need to rewrite it all? :-(21:17
ieatlintsymbian has pagestack21:17
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ieatlintthere are a few minor differences between symbian components and the harmattan components21:18
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, no. That's just my ZNC.21:18
djszapi|windowsga not only, but many platforms do not have that21:18
djszapi|windowsga like Plasma Active21:18
djszapi|windowsoh sorry, PageStack21:18
djszapi|windowswell, that is pretty standard21:18
djszapi|windowsPageStackWindow is not.21:18
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djszapi|windows(btw, I am not here for helping, just asking :)21:19
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djszapi|windowsgood luck with your issues!21:19
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GeneralAntillesjonni, interestingly, I don't actually think it was the PR1.3 updates that caused the problem.21:20
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gaone last question: Beside assembly, is there any option to QML? I also think that it's quite slow to load it (runtime)21:20
GeneralAntillesjonni, robbiethe1st had the same symptoms with a Fennec update earlier in the year21:20
GeneralAntillesand it was the Fennec update that failed.21:20
DocScrutinizer05and fennec killed the HARM?21:21
GeneralAntillesThat's my working assumption21:22
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GeneralAntillesBased on very little data.21:22
ieatlintga: that's what the mtf/libmeegotouch stuff was.. an alternative, but not what nokia recommends21:23
jonniI have fenner 12 vs 13 version conflict and ota update from pr1.2 to pr1.3 went just fine, so its not fennec, unless you installed it from nightly build web21:24
jonnifennec even21:24
gaieatlint: thanks. seems like I'll need to spend some time learning about all this QML mess. :P21:26
GeneralAntillesjonni, :shrug: only occurrence of these symptoms I'd previously seen reported was due to a Fennec update.21:26
jonniare there pastebins of the flashing attempts somewhere?21:27
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GeneralAntillesI think it's expired21:29
GeneralAntillesDon't have the link handy, but this is the same:
jonniofcourse easy for me to say, since I can always recover firmware from any situation, but that doesnt help you unless your visiting in Tampere ;)21:29
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jonniGeneralAntilles: and what happens if you extract the bins from ocf, and just flash with -F .bin --flash-only kernel,rootfs21:32
GeneralAntillesOne sec, let me grab the laptop to see how that failed.21:33
jonniGeneralAntilles: and if you do  "sudo flasher -a N9-21-3.bin -F N950pr12.bin --flash-only kernel,rootfs"  or extract kernel,rootfs from N950 image, and then "sudo flasher -F N9-21.3.bin -r rootfs -k kernel --flash-only kernel,rootfs"21:38
GeneralAntillesI'll have to try it tonight.21:40
GeneralAntilles10 minutes left for lunch21:40
jonnior the other way around "sudo flasher -a N950pr12.bin -F N921-3.bin -r rootfs -k kernel --flashonly kernel,rootfs"21:40
GeneralAntillesneed to download the N9 image.21:40
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jonniGeneralAntilles: and I just re-read your log, it fails because your trying to flash beta2 image on top of beta3, so first thing to do is to download beta3 image and retry :)21:44
GeneralAntillesThat first link isn't mine.21:44
jonnithat causes the downgrade error :)21:44
GeneralAntillesIt's old21:44
GeneralAntillesMy N950 is PR1.321:44
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GeneralAntillesThere is no PR1.3 available for N950.21:44
jonniI was reading the second  pastebin21:44
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rigoAppsForMeego is missing in Repository
jonniit says that your trying to flash N950 PR1.1 image over N950 PR1.221:45
jonniGeneralAntilles: or wasnt that second pastebin yours either?21:45
GeneralAntillesIt was21:45
GeneralAntillesUm, 39-5 is PR1.1?21:45
jonniGeneralAntilles: yep, 2-6 is pr1.221:46
jonni39-5 IS PR1.121:46
GeneralAntillesWhere's the FIASCO image for 2-6?21:46
arcean"Version of 'sw-release': DFL61_HARMATTAN_3.2012.02-6_PR_RM680"21:46
alteregoWell, PR1.2 would delete mail, but crash and close when I did it, PR1.3 will delete one email, but after that it just sticks with the refresh loop running infinitely.21:46
GeneralAntillesIf this works, I'm going to have to kill myself.21:46
GeneralAntillesOr be this channel's slave for the duration of the Summer.21:47
arceanGeneralAntilles: PR1.2 beta oneclickflasher should help you :)21:47
jonniGeneralAntilles: hopefully this is only PR1.1 vs PR1.2 error :)21:47
GeneralAntillesWell, download's not going to finish before I have to be back at work.21:47
GeneralAntillesThe suspense will kill me if the ritualize suicide doesn't.21:47
GeneralAntillesAs this is very clearly going to fix my "problem" (well, the immediate one with the N950)21:50
GeneralAntillesFirst, I'd like to thank jonni, MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer, arcean, itsnotabigtruck, and anybody else who wasted time and energy pondering on this "issue"21:50
GeneralAntillesand, second, I'd like to say: I'm an idiot.21:50
* GeneralAntilles back to work.21:50
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rigorrr. AppsForMeego refuses to install "installation interrupted"21:58
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: >>> I said we’re definitely going for the larger public, but we also want to enable the developers and the community and enthusiasts by giving them a “developer mode” option. We want to cater to both audiences. I think this became their two device<<<22:12
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05sounds painfully like aegis-perpetuated22:13
DocScrutinizer05so much for "two words can spoil your day, hell your week even"22:14
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Lava_Croftthere goes my N9, by mail, to Nokia RepairCare22:21
Lava_Croftgoodbye dear N9, I hope they don't send me a Lumia back.22:22
rzrwhere did you get that N922:23
Lava_Croftfrom a Dutch company22:23
Lava_Crofteven tho its not officially for sale here22:23
Lava_CroftI'm completely safe by EU law22:23
Lava_Croftbut that really doesnt bother Nokia22:23
rzrwhere was it made ? fi or cn ?22:23
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rzrmy E7 is about to go to NRC too :(22:24
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Lava_Crofti preferred a local nokia care point22:24
Lava_Croftpeople there werent nokia employees and actually cared22:24
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Lava_Croftall my experience with the 'central' nokia care have been nothing but fucking awful22:24
Lava_Crofta bunch of people trying to explain to me that Symbian Belle is a really a reason to just accept the N8 they sent me to replace my N90022:25
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
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Lava_Croftnokia online repair is just the local monopolist phone insurance company in NL22:31
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rigoGSM stack crashed on N9 PR 1.322:48
rigonever happened in PR 1.222:48
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HtheBMohammadAG: you there?22:58
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HtheBMohammadAG: you there?23:01
MohammadAGHtheB: Sorta23:01
HtheB(was just looking for you23:01
HtheBwelcome :) how are you23:02
HtheBCan you compile the system-ui and change a warning? :(23:02
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MohammadAGHtheB: What do you mean?23:17
HtheBcheck pm23:17
HtheBor: it's about this:23:17
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rigorats, signature check for org.formeego.apps failed23:48
rigowhere is that key?23:48
Ariadenohas anyone been able to run man-db on harmattan with success??23:49
gabriel9is there a lightphp package for N923:52
gabriel9or repo with php and lightphp?23:53
gabriel9i wish to turn my N9 into web server :)23:53
rigoI have seen web servers but no PHP23:53
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gabriel9can i use this?
gabriel9i found
gabriel9maybe it will work :)23:54
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gabriel9this php is too old :(23:55
rigodo restful instead :-P23:56
Ariadenoit's really killing me to not been able to run man-db anyone help??23:58
Ariadenoall the utils that are in conflict with busybox23:58
AriadenoI downloaded them in another folder and unpacked them23:59
Ariadenoi got it to work adding it to PATH and making a simlink to man.lib23:59
Ariadenohowever still not access to the manpages itself23:59

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