IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-07-07

rZrnow we're tomorrow !
jesuschrist^i wish they would open the UI00:03
jesuschrist^im so fucking sad about nokia00:06
jesuschrist^still wondering, if symbian is gone00:08
jesuschrist^and meego is gone00:08
jesuschrist^and meltemi too00:08
jesuschrist^what will be the feature phone os they going to make '00:09
jesuschrist^what will be the feature phone os they going to make ''00:09
ajalkaneBut basically... stupid is as stupid does.00:09
ajalkaneNokia's leadership is totally whacked.00:09
ajalkaneLet us enjoy our maemo devices. I had my last Nokia phone for 5 years. I don't see any reason to switch from N9 for similar time.00:10
ajalkaneAfter that the mobile landscape might be quite different.00:10
jesuschrist^i miss a lot of thing on my n9 tbh00:11
ajalkaneThat's good. You miss something, you fire up the SDK and fill the need ;)00:11
jesuschrist^im no developer, im a sysop :(00:13
ajalkanenever too late to become a developer! It's kind of fun change of routine between changing diapers :P00:14
rZri thought you were a profet00:14
jesuschrist^im contemplating leaving IT as a whole00:14
ajalkaneJesus H. Christ. Don't tell me you've found god?00:15
jesuschrist^i dont wanna die in front of a monitor :(00:15
rZrjesuschrist^, trust me : beware of cross00:15
ajalkaneMonitor is a modern day cross. Accept your fate.00:15
ajalkaneBut who is the modern day god that you can cry to "why have you forsaken me!"? Can it really be mr. Elop?00:17
ajalkaneOh my Elop...00:18
ajalkaneNever realized.00:18
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jesuschrist^technically im god00:19
jesuschrist^so i have forsaken me00:19
ajalkaneGet out of here. You're just son of man.00:20
jesuschrist^depends on the christian sect actually00:20
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ajalkaneI am becoming confused. Okay, I'm just content that you can make water into wine.00:21
ajalkaneI think all the sects can agree on that fact.00:21
jesuschrist^the divinity of christ was (is?)00:22
jesuschrist^seen very differently from many christians grou00:23
ajalkaneWell, I think the sword has mainly taken care of those blapshemers denying the divinity of the christ.00:24
jesuschrist^fuck yeah00:24
jesuschrist^still christ as son of god originated in the V century00:25
jesuschrist^400 years after his death00:25
jesuschrist^i need a girlfriend00:26
ajalkaneThe Higgs particle was found over 50 years after it's prophecy. True discoveries sometimes take time.00:26
ajalkaneOkay, we still don't know if it's really Higgs. So it might still take more time.00:27
ajalkaneHmm... speaking of girlfriends. It is my understanding Jesus is supposed to date whores?00:27
jesuschrist^jeovah witnesses still denies christ godness00:28
jesuschrist^cant blame him, you pay, you get served, no bitching around00:28
ajalkaneBut those guys have missed end of world predictions so many times that I think we can discount their beliefs.00:28
jabisit's just a fucking particle - get over it x)00:28
ajalkaneYeah. If I wasn't married I'd say whores are pretty cool. Alas, I won't say it.00:29
jabisthe theories've been utilised for multiple decades already - not such a big deal00:29
jabisI'm married and I can say whores are pretty cool - providing service for the needy & greedy00:30
ajalkanejabis: but it's the god particle! If we find it, and can open that goddamn particle, we will find Yahwe inside it. What would you do with a little Yahwe in your hand? I have some ideas.00:30
jabissquash the little bugger of course00:31
jabisor feed it to my cats00:31
ajalkaneI can't say that. I think my wife would object to my sexual advances if I'd say that aloud :(00:31
ajalkaneI think I'd store it in a goldfish bowl and look how he runs around in it00:32
ajalkaneIt'd be fascinating00:32
itsnotabigtruckyeah, the trinitarian view is definitely the mainstream00:32
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jesuschrist^i thought protestants dont follow trinity for the most00:33
tehdelywait, someone ported screen to HARM?00:33
tehdelyi need that badly :)00:34
jabiswho made it "the god particle"? man - oh rite - mankind is stupid x)00:34
jabisI had screen at some point on PR 1.100:35
jabisrzr's repos I'd recall00:35
tehdelylink to said repos00:35
tehdelyare they something i can put in sources.list and start using?00:35
tehdelyor not quite00:35
jesuschrist^btw rZr thanks for your repos!00:35
rZryou welcome00:36
rZrbtw since you're a sysop :00:36
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist^: nah, most protestants are trinitarian00:37
itsnotabigtruckmost non-trinitarian denominations aren't exactly very orthodox00:37
itsnotabigtruckand yeah, all that 'god particle' stuff is pretty lol :p00:37
tehdelyyes, thx rzr00:39
jesuschrist^im not following you rZr00:40
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jesuschrist^need help migrating stuff since tmp is going offline00:41
tehdelywhich repo has screen00:41
niwakameitsnotabigtruck: you there?00:41
jesuschrist^openvpn is already there anyway00:41
itsnotabigtruckniwakame: yeah00:41
itsnotabigtruckand is there a date for tmo going boom?00:41
niwakameitsnotabigtruck: I have a problem with signon, mind having a query with me?00:41
jesuschrist^i have openvpn installed on the phone but i have to yet to try it, cant remember on wich repo i found it00:42
jesuschrist^ii  openvpn        2.1.3-3harmatt virtual private network daemon00:42
rZr<tehdely> which repo has screen00:44
rZri am gone00:44
jesuschrist^bye rzr00:45
rZrjesuschrist^, yes the whole infrastucture will melt like ice under the sun ... nokia will cut fuel end 201200:45
jesuschrist^i thought the tmo admin said he would give anyone having the infrastructure00:45
jesuschrist^the backup and stuff00:45
jesuschrist^i read it somewhere on tmp00:45
jesuschrist^ahem tmo00:45
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tehdelyit does not seem to be in any of them, i have just looked00:46
tehdelyit whines on install: install: can't change ownership of /var/run/screen: Operation not permitted00:48
tehdelyshall i incept?00:48
jesuschrist^simply do a chmod 777 on /varblablablah00:49
tehdelyok thx to you i have screen and thanks to rzr i have vim00:51
tehdelywhat more does a man need, really00:51
tehdelythank you both very much00:51
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tehdelyCannot open your terminal '/dev/pts/0' - please check.00:52
tehdelyi assume this is some aegis nonsense00:52
jesuschrist^it works as user00:53
jesuschrist^not as root, unless you login as root00:53
rcg1the funny thing about aegis is to figure out whether you did something wrong or if it's simply aegis being bitchy00:53
rcg1with "funny" as in "drilling a hole through your knee"00:54
tehdelynow what i would love is a magic package which adds ALAC decoding to the music app00:55
tehdelybut i am sure that is too much to ask :/00:55
jesuschrist^what the hell is alac00:55
tehdelyapple lossless00:56
tehdelyi've ripped a lot of stuff in that fmt over the years00:56
jesuschrist^thats your punishment for owning an ipod00:56
jesuschrist^feel the pain !00:56
tehdelybe that as it may, i sure don't feel like converting all that crap00:56
tehdelyesp. given that iTunes is my main music player on mac00:56
tehdelyi wonder if Muine is still maintained :>00:56
jesuschrist^i think apple lossless is proprietary or something like that00:57
jesuschrist^still my cowon plays it, unoffically00:57
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist^: sounds like it needs some hacking to make it aegis-friendly00:58
itsnotabigtruckrather than a straight port00:58
jesuschrist^are you talking about screen itsnotabigtruck ?00:58
jesuschrist^its not my own work00:59
itsnotabigtruckthough i don't really get the point of screen on the n9, really01:00
rZrssh ?01:00
rZrwell you probally use mosh01:00
rZrbut screen is one of the 1st apps i wanted01:01
rZr1st one was rsync01:01
rZrthen git01:01
tehdelyscreen and vim were on the top of my list01:01
tehdelynow i have em both01:01
rZri use zile01:01
tehdelyi haven' teven set up sdk yet01:01
tehdelyi'm slackin01:01
tehdelyby the time i get around to it01:01
tehdelyall the websites and instructions will be down/broken01:01
tehdelyi want badly to port asterisk01:01
tehdelywhy _not_ run a PBX on my phone01:01
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, i don't know what the precise problems are w/ screen but it sounds like something needs adaptation01:02
tehdelygreat would be if i could hook it into the telephony framework (somehow)01:02
itsnotabigtrucke.g. that device node problem01:02
tehdelyso that asterisk answered all calls instead of the phone app01:02
tehdelyyou could call my phone and get a menu01:02
jesuschrist^yeah actually if there was a way to hack the codecs of the native SIP client on the n9 it would rock01:02
jesuschrist^since in europe on 3g calls suck01:02
jesuschrist^anyone tried ?01:02
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rZri mainly use wifi01:03
rZrand sip01:03
* rZr has old n810 habbits :)01:03
jesuschrist^using g729 would really help imo01:03
tehdelywell i would like to have asterisk running locally.  and configured as a SIP account01:04
tehdelyso that the dialer app is actually placing calls through asterisk01:04
tehdelyand also have asterisk answer all calls01:04
tehdelyso it would effectively serve as a proxy between the phone app and the cellular network01:04
itsnotabigtruckdoes tmux have any issues on harmattan?01:04
rZrdo you know about ofono ?01:04
itsnotabigtruckmight be a better choice over screen01:04
rZritsnotabigtruck, it worked for me01:04
rZritsnotabigtruck, but i am used to screen shortcuts01:05
itsnotabigtruckyeah but it has permission problems and that rules it out01:05
rZrtmux :
rZritsnotabigtruck, what do u expect from the following 24hours ?01:07
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itsnotabigtruckrzr: hmm? nothing :p01:15
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rcg1rZr: following 24 hours?01:31
rcg1what except the common sun/moon rise/fall cycle is expected to happen?01:31
azeemhe's probably referring to
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rcg1wrt to the term "interesting", i liked how mr spock differentiated between "interesting" and "fascinating" ;)01:36
azeemsame for restaurant critics01:37
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rcg1well, personally i prefer spock over any restaurant critic :)01:39
* DocScrutinizer05 yawns01:46
niwakameFear the power of highlight! ZogG ZogG_laptop01:47
niwakameGuess he's out01:49
azeemor your power is too weak01:51
niwakameNah, it's the power of highlight, not mine. But in these days where media is all around it may have weakened01:52
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M4rtinKlets try again: ZogG, ZogG_laptop we are you father !!01:52
M4rtinKdun dun01:53
niwakameSee :)01:53
niwakameBut that's ok for me. Forced development stops help to get sleep :>01:54
niwakameitsnotabigtruck: thanks again!01:54
M4rtinKmy power-level is apparently also too low :)01:54
niwakameLesson learned: When doing anything with internet based services that fails strangely, fire up tcpdump and check the transmission before trying to tinker with anything else01:55
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itsnotabigtruckniwakame: lol01:56
niwakameOn the other hand, it just could have told me "Bad request received" when it's already checking for damn status code 200 anyway!01:57
niwakameMay be due to "I'll make this work for now, I only need status code 200. Code clean up will be done later"01:58
niwakameSo I'm out. Sleep well / good morning / hope your lunch tastes good! [select depending on location and time]02:00
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itsnotabigtruckif anyone feels like rolling custom firmware images02:06
itsnotabigtrucki posted a summary of what to do02:06
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jonniitsnotabigtruck: I though that fiasco-gen images are only flashable to R&D cert devices, but maybe I havent checked if PR1.2+ bootloader would be more liberal.02:14
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jonniitsnotabigtruck: or are you sure that you can use fiasco-gen to CE devices?02:15
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jonniand if I remember right, harmattan fiasco-gen isnt even avail to public.02:22
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itsnotabigtruckyou can flash any fiasco image you want, as long as the contents are acceptable02:24
itsnotabigtruckthe image itself isn't signed, it only optionally contains an sw cert that is signed02:24
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itsnotabigtruckif you flash an image without an sw cert, it just keeps the old sw cert02:24
jonniohwell, I'll have to then retest my old custom images that I did for R&D devices a while back just to see if they work on CE02:25
itsnotabigtruckif you don't flash everything at once, it puts you into open mode02:25
itsnotabigtrucksame if you have anything that mismatches the sw cert02:25
itsnotabigtruck(which is much stricter compared to pre-pr1.2nolo)02:25
jonniyes, even the ram boot kernel triggers open mode02:26
itsnotabigtruckalso all of that is just based on my observations, since you have insider knowledge some of that stuff might be clearly wrong02:26
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jonniwell I havent read the bootloader code for a while, so I'm not 100% sure, before I retest.02:27
itsnotabigtruckoh, and i know sparsify works because i put the n950 version of pr1.2 on my n9 with it :p02:27
itsnotabigtruckit was pretty glitchy though and i don't think it allows the battery to be charged02:27
jonnibut anyways custom images are not a right way to solve the problem. for cssu or similar its just enough to have pgp signed repo with wanted packages, and have that key injected as
jonni(unless there comes some more official way in the future)02:32
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azeemitsnotabigtruck: cool!02:39
DocScrutinizer05jonni: (unless there comes some more official way in the future) are you kidding?02:40
jonniDocScrutinizer05: well I have zero visibility what harmattan team has planned about possible sdk/cssu etc updates, I'm hoping that sdk would be updated and the N950 pr1.3 image released, but maybe I'm too optimistic :)02:44
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* DocScrutinizer05 ponders about cssu-HARM02:47
DocScrutinizer05more sounds like HARM-HE02:48
DocScrutinizer05Hacker  Edition02:48
DocScrutinizer05since you will need openmode for it aiui02:49
DocScrutinizer05I have to admit I lost all interest in HARM, since it seems like any devel trying to do any smarter things than just another random permutation of those 5 dozen QML widgets, well they all spend 5% of their time implementing the cool stuff and 95% they fuzz around with aegis to make it work02:52
DocScrutinizer05jonni: btw you say there actualy *is* any such thing like harmattan team still? even after the latest 10k-fatalities cleaning day @ Nokia?02:59
azeemI guess they weren't dumped overnight, that only happens at Wall St.03:01
DocScrutinizer05no, for sure they weren't. It's been known since long that PR1.3 is probably last publication ever from Nokia for maemo/meego03:02
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to actually check that twitter (waaaaah!) page again03:03
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AardDocScrutinizer05: well, there needs to be someone around for the next two years with the ability to releases in case critical breakages occur, though I can't talk about how they solved that03:14
tehdelymaybe they can have Accenture do it ;)03:18
* Aard whistles a bit03:18
DocScrutinizer05Aard: as if Nokia showed to care about anything like "long term" support for their 'carp'03:21
DocScrutinizer05N900 wasn't even fixable after < 24 months from initial rollout, due to Nokia dumped all spare parts03:22
Aardwell, they did a fix for the n900 when there was thet CA desaster ;)03:22
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M4rtinKIIRC there are still shops selling N900 spare parts03:34
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DocScrutinizer05well yes, those that Nokia dumped and they bought those by the kg05:30
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, could be worse.05:43
GeneralAntillesCould be Android.05:43
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pa so i installed the pr1.3 ota09:46
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pabut honestly it doesnt look to me that it's faster or that it occupies less ram, unlike what i read on tmo09:46
pa(i did the factory reset)09:47
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Jeffrey04is easy_install and pip available for harmattan?10:46
jonniJeffrey04: no11:02
Jeffrey04jonni even after i enabled sdk repository?11:02
Jeffrey04i should get easy_install after installing python-setuptools from the sdk repository right?11:04
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Jeffrey04lol, install python-setuptools and used easy_install to install pip11:14
Jeffrey04not sure if this is the right way11:14
Jeffrey04but got pip installed at /usr/local/bin11:15
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Jeffrey04argh… is still not fixed?11:33
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jonniJeffrey04: you cannot add sdk repo to device, sdk repo is only for scratchbox env.11:42
Jeffrey04er, ok11:42
jonni(or if you add, then your phone is quite likely going to be screwed at some point).11:43
Jeffrey04oh ok11:43
Jeffrey04didn't know that11:43
Jeffrey04got it from here
Jeffrey04so that's actually for the platform sdk?11:44
jonniyep thats only meant for scratchbox11:44
Jeffrey04ok, thanks for informing11:44
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pawkyGreat that finally pr 1.3 has come out! :-)  Sad though they haven't fixed the obvious bug you cannot edit the text of an E-mail you want to forward or reply to... :-(12:05
Jeffrey04hahahaha, it is not out for everybody12:05
Jeffrey04at least i haven't receive it via OTA12:05
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japhme neither12:30
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Jeffrey04rzr: huh? what does that mean?13:03
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Jeffrey04 apparently they are going to sell new MeeGo devices in future13:09
SpeedEvilI await the new smartphone revolution.13:10
Jeffrey04but isn't the development of MeeGo discontinued?13:10
chouchounethay might be based on Mer13:11
Jeffrey04most probably13:11
chouchouneno idea though13:11
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Jeffrey04there isn't much info available for now though13:12
Jeffrey04oh, so they are not going to provide updates for N9?
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alteregoWe should all join #jolla or something to talk about this.13:18
alteregoHard straddling over several channels ;)13:18
Stskeepsnot an official channel13:18
Jeffrey04erm, but there's nothing much to talk about for now, no?13:19
Stskeepsbest thing to do is follow the twitter and wait for press release13:19
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denism"agressively hiring"13:58
denism interesting, is it an official Nokia Bridge company + do they have some discontinued IPR or not?..13:58
Aarddenism: yep, if you have interesting skills you might find you in the back of a van suddenly ;)13:59
alteregore ip13:59
denismCompany size: 51-200. Hmmm.13:59
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SpeedEvilAard: :)14:08
denismAard: seems they are located in Helsinki again, so no cakes for other cities without relocation14:14
Stskeepsdenism: what city are you in?14:14
denismStskeeps: Tampere :)14:14
Stskeepsdenism: FWIW, i'm not even in Finland and working with them14:15
Aarddenism: I'm a jolla member, and we do have offices not only in helsinki14:15
denismStskeeps, Aard: remote work is another case, but thank you for the info, really interesting then14:15
Stskeepsdenism: if you're interested, please send a CV to carsten.munk@jollamobile.com14:17
denismbut anyway, I think now, after the official announce - there will be hundreds CV for any position :) Even inside Finland.14:17
rzrI'll have to do that ...14:17
denismStskeeps: thank you, I will try.14:17
SpeedEvilAard: Stskeeps - whoever else - good luck!14:18
rzrbut i am sure most nokia employee will ring the door before I hit the send email button14:18
rzranway doing things too fast is not good at the end14:18
Stskeepsdenism: in your specific case, attach portfolio14:19
denismStskeeps: yes of course, thank you14:24
dm8tbrrzr: most probably already did before today ;)14:25
dm8tbrit's not like jolla magically happened today...14:25
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macmaNso there is no openvpn gui for harmattan yet? tray icon indicator, on/off switch perhaps..14:57
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ZogG_laptopmacmaN: you are welcome to make mt-toggle15:08
macmaNyeah, of course that will kind of stop it from being widely used15:09
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ZogG_laptopalterego: still waiting for anything helpful with sigong-oauth215:17
Venemo_N9what's up?15:22
alteregoZogG_laptop: don't have, sorry15:23
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SputJolla should open an office in Ulm :>16:13
Lava_Croftjolla should remove the rpm stuff right away16:13
StskeepsSput: i live in Warsaw, Poland and work with them..16:14
Stskeepswho needs offices when you have sofas :)16:14
SputI actually enjoy sharing an office with fellow devs16:14
Stskeepsso do i, at times16:15
Sputthat's the worst thing about Nokia closing the Ulm site... destroying a few really good teams16:15
AardSput: then you should come to finland. it's nicer here anyway ;)16:15
Sputwell, I guess BMW will be happy to get a bunch of top-notch developers16:15
Stskeepsyes, especially in those IVI times16:16
* SpeedEvil imagines rotary-sofa surfing teams.16:16
SputI think half of my team already applied there.16:16
SputNokia is really stupid to let all that talent go16:17
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Stskeepsi can't imagine how their research branch is feeling about all this..16:18
SputI'm not sure if they still have a research branch16:21
Stskeepsthat's a good point16:21
Sputyou don't need one for being an OEM anyway16:21
Lava_Croftthe killing of knowledge by Nokia is just staggering16:22
Lava_CroftNokia has the people that made it possible to run desktop linux on a ridiculously underpowered mobile device16:23
Lava_Croftand its like "naw dont need"16:23
Lava_Croftwe gots wintoons16:23
Sputthey're not killing it. they're handing it over to the competition, which currently rejoices about a flood of top-notch engineers on a market that has way more demand than supply...16:23
Lava_Croftkilling as in killing it inside nokia16:23
Lava_Croftyou can kill it alltogether16:24
Lava_Croftand to be fairly honest16:24
Lava_Crofti think all the developers etc are much better off outside of Nokia16:24
Lava_Croftsince apparentlt Nokia just doesnt care16:24
SputBMW showed up in Ulm the other day... "hey look, we're hiring 150 developers currently"16:24
Lava_CroftBMW already uses meego, right16:24
alteregoIt is a funny move, considering a certain Linux based mobile OS is dominating the market.16:25
Sputnot sure what they use currently... Genivi was supposed to be based on Meego in 2010, but there's multiple compliant implementations16:25
Sputprobably Tizen these days16:25
Sputand QNX of course16:25
alteregoBut it also shows that the rumoured plan B of Android that some people like to dwell on is obviously false. ;)16:25
Lava_Croftnokia wont do android16:25
alteregoI know16:25
SputAndroid would've been stupid two years ago, and it's even stupider today16:26
alteregoSome people still think it's a possibility though, which is kinda hilarious.16:26
Sput(for Nokia)16:26
Sputin the market Nokia still makes money in, you need full control of the platform16:26
Sputcan't rely on Google (or MS) to scale down their OSes to a point where your beautiful low-cost hardware runs properly with it16:26
Sputsince this is so obvious to me, I probably am not manager material.16:27
SpeedEvilIt's slightly questionable if 'throw windows away, put android on n9/all non s40 phones/all windows phones' might not cause dramaticlaly more sales.16:28
Sputoh, more than the WP8 strategy probably16:28
SpeedEvilAt n9 launch time - there was a closing window of people who hadn't really used android or ios, but finally decided they needed a smartphone.16:30
Sputcould've sold drastically more N9s16:30
SpeedEvilThis demographic has now largely evaporated.16:30
Sputand created the mythical third ecosystem even a year ago16:30
Sputmaybe even throw the N950 in the mix16:30
Sputso you have two top-notch smartphones at a time where users were frustrated with both Android and iOS16:31
Sput(plus a lot of people considering to switch from feature phones)16:31
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ZogG_laptopElleo: is you twitter Mike sheldon?16:44
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infobotZogG_laptop meant: /s/your/your/16:44
ElleoZogG_laptop: yep, @mikesheldon16:50
infobotTo build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file.  Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source.  The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`.17:06
infobotI guess you mean the handhelds sources, see
ZogG_laptopwhat is the link for the 1.2 sources?17:07
Lava_Crofthere, some hype for the Qt fans:17:12
Lava_Croft1605 <+Lava_Croft> god why am i even defending that treehugger17:12
Lava_Croftoh my god paste17:13
Lava_Crofti meant that:D17:13
* Lava_Croft flees the scene17:13
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pamy impression or 1.3 drains battery?17:22
alteregoApparently the bug is actually the battery indicatot.17:24
alteregoindicator ..17:24
alteregoSounds like something Apple would do.17:24
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pathat jumps to something to 4%?17:25
pabut i meant in general17:25
pais it only my impression that it drains the battery faster?17:26
alteregoCan't say I've noticed it.17:27
alteregoSeems I'm using it the same as always and getting the same battery life :)17:27
Elleoalterego: I think the bug you're thinking of (battery drain by indicator) is in a 3rd party app17:28
Elleoalterego: it adds a battery indicator icon to the launcher17:28
Elleobut updates it really frequently and causes lots of other stuff to wake up too (because tracker has to wake up when an application icon changes)17:28
Elleoit doesn't have anything to do with the core harmattan stuff17:29
alteregoAh, right.17:29
Elleopersonally I've not seen any battery different between 1.2 and 1.317:29
Elleoor not enough of a difference to notice at any rate17:29
paah okay17:30
pathen it is probably okay17:30
paElleo, did you reflash, or upgrade ota?17:30
alteregoif anything it seems better to me17:30
pais it possible to have suid root exes in harmattan?17:37
pai mean on our own apps17:38
Aardpa: aegis provides the same functionality, though I'm not sure if it'd go through ovi store qa17:40
paAard, you mean suid functionality? like to write to a 644 file?17:41
Aardno, you'll have to request the proper aegis credentials in the packages manifest. file modes are irrelevant17:42
macmaNstill waiting for 005 to get 1.3 :/17:46
macmaNsort of regretting now i didnt flash with 001 before i configured everything17:46
pahm okay thanks!17:49
jesuschrist^i noticed 1.3 battery to be lower to 1.2 too17:55
DocScrutinizer05\o/ Jolla ???18:06
AardDocScrutinizer05: you're trying to figure out if you should be happy, or not?18:07
DocScrutinizer05I'm trying to figure out if I like twitter or not18:07
DocScrutinizer05nah, I already decided I don't like that shit18:08
DocScrutinizer05since it seems impossible to get a decent chunk of info >120char18:09
DocScrutinizer05tewitter == neutered IRC for losers18:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway, I can't even comment on jolla since I got no clear idea what it's all about18:12
DocScrutinizer05>>Ex-Nokians form Jolla to continue MeeGo for N9 development! #n9 #meego .@jollamobile<< if this is to the point then good luck as meego is a very fuzzy term18:13
DocScrutinizer05meego for N9 is dead end anyway18:14
ZogG_laptopyou always can check it with battery app that shows how it drains what and what apps draing what18:14
StskeepsDocScrutinizer05: and further down, working with #merproject18:14
Stskeepsbut yes, meego's a fuzzy term these days18:14
Stskeepsmore like an idea18:14
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DocScrutinizer05Stskeeps: hi! :-D18:14
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: more like the basics people start with to make somethig more serious =0)18:15
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: btw mer has no idea to make hardware or end-os but only base for that right?18:15
StskeepsZogG_laptop: correct, we do a core and just a core, with ability for hardware adaptations to tap into, and vendors to put that + uis on top18:16
StskeepsZogG_laptop: very intentional, too - so multiple companies can work together without clashing on typical areas18:17
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Lava_Croftand the work for you guys remains overseeable too18:17
Stskeepsthat too, is easier to QA18:17
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Lava_Crofti dont think there's any other viable option besides Mer on the 'market' anyway18:18
DocScrutinizer05feels like one more project 24 months late and never catching up18:18
Lava_Croftto what does it have to catch up18:18
DocScrutinizer05not the first one I've seen18:18
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: I think it's different, because they're utilizing community openly, and it's built from some very talented engineers from inside Nokia and outside.18:19
DocScrutinizer05alterego: will this change things, really?18:19
DocScrutinizer05in 3..6 months, there's no more N9 to buy in shops, just like N900 now18:20
Jeffrey04DocScrutinizer05: there will be used units18:21
Jeffrey04there are some folks in malaysia starting to sell their units off18:21
Jeffrey04claiming it problematic18:21
DocScrutinizer05good luck anyway with "meego on N9" - to me it feels like it's among the worst base to start such project from18:23
AardDocScrutinizer05: n9 is of no relevance to jolla. n9 is a nokia-phone.18:23
Jeffrey04I have heard people saying they are gonna base their work with mer18:23
Jeffrey04nothing official so far though i guess18:24
StskeepsJeffrey04: it's official on twitter, "works with #merproject"18:24
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Lava_Croftfrom what i understand, the do not intend to make software for nokia devices at all, officially18:24
Jeffrey04Stskeeps: lol, I think I missed that one18:24
StskeepsLava_Croft: there is a long range of complications with that.. along with the hw blobs for n9xx saying not for commercial usage18:25
Jeffrey04Stskeeps: too many people are spamming things about #jollamobile LOL18:25
Stskeeps / redistribution18:25
DocScrutinizer05twitter is great, isn't it?18:25
DocScrutinizer05at least great for spreading rumour and pseudo-info18:25
StskeepsLava_Croft: but through participation in merproject, there should be benefits anyway..18:25
AardLava_Croft: yes, nokia devices will obviously still be supported by mer/nemo, but we'll not provide anything for that from jolla side18:25
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: but today market is between OS's, is there anyone laready interested in mer? i mean someone who intend to do end-user hrdware with it?18:26
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: i still do not understand how it would work out18:26
StskeepsZogG_laptop: there's ongoing projects in various companies, but remember that mer focuses on small to medium enterprises18:27
Lava_Croftit's becoming easier and easier for smaller parties to get their 'own' hardware18:27
Stskeepsand for what it matters, we don't always know people are doing projects with us18:27
Stskeepsuntil we accidentially hear about them18:27
Stskeepslike, what a contributor really works on18:27
dm8tbrlike today ;)18:28
Jeffrey04guess I should start saving money to buy a device from them in future18:28
DocScrutinizer05well, some others would call all this "fud" - I hate that term18:28
DocScrutinizer05but fact is the amount of *decent* info available makes it feel silly to even discuss the whole thing18:29
alteregoWhat do you want to know DocScrutinizer05 ?18:29
alteregoAsk questions, and maybe you'll get answers ..18:29
Stskeepsor 'we can't tell you yet', as it does happen18:30
DocScrutinizer05well, let's start with "what is jolla?"18:30
alteregoJolla is a company started by ex-nokians that worked on maemo/meego, they plan on distributing handsets based on Qt and the merproject.18:30
DocScrutinizer05or even more generic: "is there *anything* worth reading? related to linux on mobiles"18:31
Jeffrey04just out of curiousity, is jolla related to cloudberrytech?18:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure what you'd find interesting ;)18:31
Jeffrey04will you guys co-operate?18:31
DocScrutinizer05alterego: WUT? ex nokians plan to distribute handsets?18:31
alteregoJeffrey04: no, not exactly, but I think they're friends and may collaborate.18:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: yes. manufacturer and sell handsets.18:31
DocScrutinizer05hey, now THAT sounds interesting18:32
DocScrutinizer05for me as EE18:32
AardJeffrey04: we are not related, apart from the fact that we were colleagues in nokia.18:32
StskeepsDocScrutinizer05: next problem, we actually know you ;)18:32
DocScrutinizer05alterego: however I have a hard time believing in that detail of Jolla Inc going to be a hw manufacturer18:33
Stskeeps[17:27] <Lava_Croft> it's becoming easier and easier for smaller parties to get their 'own' hardware18:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah, rant18:35
alteregoiirc cloudberry are the workers from oulo?18:35
* alterego doesn't remember details ... 18:35
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: why?18:35
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alteregoDocScrutinizer05: and I don't think that matters ;)18:35
DocScrutinizer05RL experience18:35
alteregoWhat you believe I mean.18:35
DocScrutinizer05I'm dealing with "building own hw" since ~5 years now18:36
alteregoYou're not a company.18:36
alteregoAnd you don't have the combined experience of these Nokia engineers.18:36
DocScrutinizer05I'm as much a company as jolla18:36
alteregoAnd you don't have the investors these guys have.18:36
alteregoAnd by investors they have, I mean, you don't have investors :P18:37
DocScrutinizer05hmm, they have investors?18:37
alteregoHow would I know :P18:37
DocScrutinizer05well, of course I won't get to know... that s business18:37
alteregoI don't work for them, I'm just going by what I've read today.18:37
Jeffrey04guess i should bookmark the logs and check back when i wake up tomorrow :P18:38
alteregoAnd they've stated their intention to develop and distrubute handsets based on Mer/MeeGo, they also mentioned having partners and investors going along with them.18:38
AardDocScrutinizer05: we do have international investors, but that's as much as you get ;)18:38
DocScrutinizer05more than I expected18:38
DocScrutinizer05so that sounds kinda promissing18:39
alteregoRight, so now I have something to actually look forward to, and I don't have to go Android or something else.18:39
ZogG_laptopAard: so you are part of that?18:39
alteregoHopefully :)18:39
AardZogG_laptop: yes, I'm a jolla employee18:39
ZogG_laptopalterego: the question is it would be anoother stop again18:39
ZogG_laptoplike N900 was awesome but suddenly meego comes and than n9 and than tizen and than that and next would be something else18:40
DocScrutinizer05if a statement like "those molds for the case are ~200k$" isn't already a killer for your project, that's a nice situation for you18:40
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: they've also mentioned their intention to be as open as possible, which is also something to look forward to.18:40
ZogG_laptopwhile the thing here is just to keep working on 1 thing and polishing it18:40
DocScrutinizer05alterego: a statement a former employer of me also had as their major mantra18:41
alteregoZogG_laptop: I see what you mean with Tizen, but N900->MeeGo->N9 was just a progression.18:41
ZogG_laptopalterego: Nokia said maemo and meego are linux phones but than closed things and aegis come =)18:41
ZogG_laptopalterego: it wssn't progression18:41
alteregoZogG_laptop: they didn't close anything that wasn't already closed :P And they openned quite a lot up.18:41
DocScrutinizer05alterego: and believe me, it's an annoying fight with chip manufs to get clearance to disclose datasheets18:42
alteregoThe entire MeeGo Touch Framework, formerly DUI was open-sourced for MeeGo.18:42
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: I'm aware of logistical issues with these things, but I'm sure they wouldn't have attempted this endeavour without being sure of themselves.18:42
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ZogG_laptopand missing parts and docs and manuals18:42
alteregoJolla have been forming for almost a year. I'm sure they've been very busy planning their strategy.18:43
DocScrutinizer05I doubt anybody inside Nokia ever really wrapped his head around that particular aspect18:43
ZogG_laptopalterego: but n900 was step 6 of 6 while n9 was setp 0 of X =)18:43
alteregoZogG_laptop: N900 was step 4/5, N950 was 5/5. N9 was 0 of X18:43
alteregoHarmattan is clearly  the progression on from Maemo518:44
ZogG_laptopalterego: wouldn't agree as n950 in my eyes is n9 as we talk about platform and not HW18:44
alteregoThey only called it MeeGo because it was an agreement they had with Intel.18:44
alteregoZogG_laptop: your eyes don't matter, this is reality :P18:44
ZogG_laptopalterego: harmattan is like not really meego but alredy not maemo =\18:44
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alteregoThe fact is Harmattan is maemo6 really. With MeeGo Touch Framework giving it a somewhat MeeGo 1.2 compliant API18:45
ZogG_laptopalterego: reality? so where did you get that n950 is 6/6 ? was it intent to run real maemo?18:45
alteregoIt's a progression of Maemo, it was being planned years before the N900 came out.18:45
alteregoZogG_laptop: I said N950 was originally to be step 5/518:45
ZogG_laptopalterego: that just proves that they changed core part instead of evolutioning it18:45
alteregoZogG_laptop: what core?18:45
alteregoZogG_laptop: the core is still a deb based linux system.18:45
AardZogG_laptop: n9/n950 was the 'do a device for consumers' step of the big plan. n900 and before were strictly speaking hacker devices, not consumer ready18:46
ZogG_laptopalterego: originally it was n900 to be step 5/5 but than it suddenly became 5/6 =)18:46
DocScrutinizer05guys, does nomenclature about step x of y matter anyway?18:46
alteregoZogG_laptop: no, 4/518:46
alteregoStep 1: 770, 2: N800, 3: N810, 4:N900, 5: N950/N918:46
ZogG_laptopAard: that's why i say it wasn't in line with maemo devices18:46
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AardZogG_laptop: no, it is in link, since it builds on everything that has been done before18:47
DocScrutinizer05Aard: does your company already have any "face" (URL, whatever)?18:47
alteregoThe move to Qt, the creation of DUI was all planned for step 5 (N9/50), it was planned even during Maemo4.18:47
AardDocScrutinizer05: we will have soon.18:47
alteregoHarmattan is 100% Maemo,18:47
AardZogG_laptop: both on the n9 (and on mer/meego) you'll find several components from ancient maemo origin18:48
DocScrutinizer05Aard: so let's assume I'd be interested to participate on a professional level, what am I supposed to do?18:48
alteregoMeeGo 1.2 was used, because DUI, now MTF, was the toolkit for creating handset UXs that Nokia bought to the MeeGo table.18:48
Aardyou just don't see them as developer since they're acting as backends for qt apis18:48
alteregoAegis was always planned.18:48
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ZogG_laptopAard: i think parts are less relevant than core.18:48
alteregoZogG_laptop: and the core is Maemo, through-and-through ..18:48
ZogG_laptopalterego: even in times of maemo?18:49
alteregoZogG_laptop: yes, I have stated that fact several times :P18:49
AardDocScrutinizer05: depends on what kind of participation. we're working on mer and related projects in the open, and can use any help we get there. or you can contact us by irc or mail addresses which were published about less public cooperations (or send us your CV)18:49
AardZogG_laptop: the core is maemo. qt-mobility is just a nice api around maemo legacy core18:50
DocScrutinizer05Aard: thanks, will /query you about that eventually18:50
ZogG_laptopalterego: it was such base that people working on project to make fremantle stuff to run on harmattan and it is hard work18:50
alteregoZogG_laptop: During Maemo4, Nokia planned to use Qt as a strategy across all their handsets, so they moved development away from Gtk/Hildon and started working on DUI, built on the Qt Graphics Framework. When Maemo 5 came out and the N900, we got Qt, so developers would start writing Qt applications to work on Maemo5, which would be completely Qt based, DUI continued to evolve, but Nokia teamed up with Intel, Nokia's contribution to MeeGo was DUI, which18:51
ZogG_laptopdeveloper ui?18:52
alteregoDirect User Interface, it was the original name for MeeGo Touch Framework.18:52
AardZogG_laptop: the hard work comes from not supporting gtk or classic qt on harmattan anymore -- there were attempts to make classic qt look nice, but they were abandoned18:52
AardZogG_laptop: 'developing under influence'18:52
alteregoIt was a pain in the ass.18:52
ZogG_laptopAard: i think it's about to be able to run them somehower at all18:52
DocScrutinizer05regarding "kind of participation" my interests and competences are with hw-review/design, general system architecture with emphasis on the hw side, and  interface between hardware and software departments, as well as interface to community about stuff that needs filtering prior to disclosure18:52
DocScrutinizer05Aard: ^^^18:52
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ZogG_laptoppitty i have no degree or knowledge to work in suh startups ever =)18:53
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ZogG_laptopalterego: so you see after all meego step was step aside, thats why 5/5 never came in real18:53
alteregoIt did become real18:55
alteregoN9/50 was Step 5/518:55
DocScrutinizer05Aard: typical work package: "review this schematics please. List all design glitches and possible zero/low-cost improvements"18:55
alteregoBut it was too late.18:55
alteregoElop had already destroyed that department and claimed their new strategy, which was going to be Maemo 6 / MeeGo / Harmattan, was now Microsoft Windows Phone.18:56
alteregoSo step 5/5 happened, that is the N9 and the N950, it is MeeGo/Harmattan. It was also the end of Nokia's journey with GNU/Linux in the highend market.18:56
alteregoSo the team that were working on Maemo started working on a new project, Meltemi, which was a Linux stack for mid-range smartphones, their next billion strategy, built on Harmattan and all the Maemo revisions before that. But targetted at the emerging smartphone markets.18:57
alteregoThat got destroyed a few weeks ago.18:57
alteregoAnd thus ended Nokia's workings with Linux platform development.18:58
ZogG_laptopmaybe you are right but i think originally planned 5/5 was not that18:58
alteregoZogG_laptop: yes, it was.18:58
alteregoAnd it always had been.18:58
alteregoThe Maemo team executed the 5 step plan as intended. Not without disruptions, their company falling down around them, and toolkit changes.18:59
alteregoBut their 5 step plan was executed as intended.18:59
alteregoAnd it worked, it was just a little too late, if it was before Elop had arrived, Nokia would be somewhere quite different today.18:59
alteregoAnd we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't even be in this irc channel.19:00
alteregoEven now, I think N9 has out sold all of the Lumia devices19:00
alteregoThough maybe not now with the 90019:00
Aardalterego: well, maybe you'd be in this irc channel, but instead discussing the next 10 cool nokia harmattan devices ;)19:00
alteregoAard: neah, if it had worked, if Elop hadn't had screwed us all over. We'd all still be in #meego19:01
alteregoWorking with Intel.19:01
alteregotbf, Nokia has predictably always fallen down when it's attempted to work openly with other companies.19:01
Aardas someone who has worked on meego quite early on I'm not that sure about that ;)19:01
alteregoIf Nokia had not joined forces for that short time with Intel, we would have had the N950 probably 6-12 months before we had it.19:02
Aardalterego: no.19:02
alteregoAll the parts were finished.19:02
Aardhardware, yes. software, no.19:03
alteregoIt was only after the partnership with Intel that Nokia rewrote the software for swipe ui19:03
alteregoWe wouldn't have swipe ui, but we would have had the devices.19:03
alteregoI think at least, but obviously, no one really knows for sure :)19:03
alteregoAnd I've always been an outsider, until January this year when I was working on AF maintenance.19:04
Aardwell, I'd say the rewrite would've happend without the cooperation as well. MTF was crap19:04
alteregoSo my maemo history account there was purely from what I've seen and been told :)19:04
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alteregoAard: sure, but swipe ui is written in MTF :P19:04
alteregoI would have liked to have seen the original Harmattan UI.19:05
alteregoI remember seeing the slides for it, and it looked interesting, a continual desktop like widget thingy.19:05
infobotalterego meant: I remember seeing the slides for it, and it looked interesting, a continual desktop like widget canvas.19:05
Aardalterego: I believe you've seen one version of it ;)19:05
ZogG_laptopalterego: may you show me slides19:05
alteregoYeah, I heard there were many ;)19:05
alteregoZogG_laptop: not sure I can find them, it was a long time ago.19:05
alteregoAard: I've obviously also seen the MeeGo Handset UX reference19:06
alteregoWhich I'd imagine was a point of contention in  Nokia, hence the swipe ux19:06
alteregoAnyway, after this mammoth 7 year journey, to have all of this and finally Meltemi collapse, you can understand me being slightly annoyed :)19:07
ZogG_laptopalterego: i thought harmattan is what it was meant to be19:07
Aardthere were many things going on. imo it would've been better to just finish one version, push out a device, then go on, that way we'd have a bunch of devices with improvements now, but that does not work in a dinosaur with management overhead19:07
Aardwell, meltemi is not a surprise19:07
alteregoNo, I wasn't suprised at all.19:07
alteregoI saw it coming a mile off.19:08
alteregoIt was too good to be true to be fair. After all we've been through.19:08
ZogG_laptopbtw i never understood how when harmattan was dead already meltmi was going to be out? why not finish one thing?19:08
Aardalterego: I refused several offers on meltemi since I didn't believe it had a future, after I've seen some details of the project19:08
alteregoZogG_laptop: Meltemi was based on HArmattan, but wasn't a highend contender, it was meant as a smartphone for the next billion subscribers in emerging economies and markets.19:09
ZogG_laptoptoday kids have iphones19:09
alteregoAard: I was going to work on it after working on Harmattan, but obviously that never happened ;)19:09
ZogG_laptopwhat is low end smartphone than?19:09
ZogG_laptopalterego: leak the source as revenge19:09
alteregoZogG_laptop: not low end, middle range, cheap and functional for places like India and Africa.19:09
alteregoZogG_laptop: I still signed an NDA, I'll never  leak anything.19:10
alteregoBut the information I do know, I will gladly help people reach their goals :P19:10
ZogG_laptopalterego: i told you what i need to complete my app =)19:11
alteregoIf I can, I didn't work on the entire platform. Though did work on a fair few chunks of it.19:11
alteregoZogG_laptop: told you I couldn't help there, sorry :P19:11
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ZogG_laptopalterego: so no facebook source or dropbox?19:12
alteregoThat would probably effect my future career options :P19:13
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mike7b4athomeTwitter is exploding todays thanks to @ollamobile :D19:18
mike7b4athome@jollamobile *19:19
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jabisnice to hear teh jolla news19:43
jabis"not all is lost" ^^19:44
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jaywinkcool news, maemo/meego has got too far and produced the best smartphone ever imho - good to know there are people who are determined to make use of what has been accomplished :)19:58
jaywink"MeeGo-based" trending on Twitter as well :)20:01
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nibblerjaywink: i would sign that. in verbatim.20:07
Aardhey nibbler. yet another known face I see here ;)20:10
heymasterunix:!isEmpty(MEEGO_VERSION_MAJOR) {} << Why does is triggered if I use Qt simulator target ?20:12
heymasterwhat to use for harmattan and Qt Simu;ator ?20:13
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heymasterIs N9 is armv6?20:31
virtualdi guess the l is for little endian but i don't really know20:32
DocScrutinizer05yep, afaik20:32
heymastervirtuald: so what to use if i want to compile library with gcc ? -arch armv7 ?20:33
heymaster--with-arch=armv7-a looks like20:35
virtualdsorry i don't know20:35
heymasterok :)20:36
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jonni-O3 -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon20:46
heymasterjonni: thanks.. -arch was not recognized option. I'm using gcc from QtSDK Madde dir. I think this compiler will compile proper executable20:51
heymasterWithout any options20:51
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djszapi -> funky21:23
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ptlHi, how can I get a compiled 'aiccu' package for my N9 to setup an ipv6-to-ipv4 tunnel?21:23
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koedjszapi, pity it's meego, not harmattan21:24
djszapikoe: well, meego is way more open system than harmattan.21:24
ptlno aiccu for my N9?21:25
koeptl, i can only suggest easy debian21:26
koedjszapi, yep, but harmattan at least has apps and one device, while meegos tizens and other b2g's have none21:28
djszapikoe: it is not about the past21:30
djszapikoe: it is about building the future.21:30
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ptl<- trying to find easy debian for the N9.21:33
djszapiptl: why would you?21:34
koeptl ^21:34
djszapiCannot you just contribute to the community repository by packaging that stuff ?21:34
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djszapiwhy would you run into a way more convoluted debian way?21:34
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ptlis there any place that has application like vim and irssi compiled for the N9?21:37
djszapiptl: yes, the community repository21:38
djszapiptl: irssi is even available in Ovi.21:38
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ptldeb ./21:43
ptlI found this one21:43
ptlisn't that for 1.2 only?21:43
ptlI've got PR1.321:43
djszapiunsure what you mean.21:44
djszapishould work with 1.321:45
ptl"Meego 1.2 harmattan"21:45
djszapiptl: wrong name selection.21:47
ptlThe following packages have unmet dependencies: irssi: Depends: libperl5.10 (>= 5.10.1) but it is not going to be installed tmux: Depends: libevent-1.4-2 (>= 1.4.13-stable) but it is not installable21:48
ptlDid I use the right repository?21:49
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ptlI got disconnected22:04
ptlanyone got any response on how to install irssi, mpg321, vim, lynx or any other common text-mode utilities via repositories?22:05
rzrptl, we'll have to rebuilt those for pr1.3 i supose ...22:05
ptlthanks, rzr22:05
ptlso I've got to wait, right?22:05
rzri used to work before22:05
rzror try to rebuild yourself22:06
rzrjust fork them22:06
ptlI just got my N9 today22:06
ptlupdated to PR1.322:06
ptlstill reading about this goddman aegis22:06
ptlI had a N900 before22:06
ptlthought it would be easier to install these22:07
japhand what do you think?22:07
japhI was horrible disapointed when I went from n900 -> n950... still not convinced someone thought the ui through. but it's at least usable now22:08
ptlN950? you are lucky22:08
japhit seems22:09
japhfirst time in my life :)22:09
ptlanyway, I bought N9 even after knowing that PR1.3 was the last update before the Nokia layoff22:10
ptltoo bad it's sort of 'the end', but hope Tizen will get adopted by samsung or something22:10
pado you think it's possible to compile evince for harmattan?22:13
japhptl, yeah... but otoh the phone I had prior to me fetching the n900 was the 3310 :p22:14
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paor okular22:22
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JokuHi, I'm workind in a harmattan app and I was wondering if I create a lot of pages but I don't push them into the stack, will that consume memory? do I need to use a loader?22:24
rzr<ptl> too bad it's sort of 'the end', but hope Tizen will get adopted by samsung or something22:25
rzryou missed some info today22:25
koe>>the distro is rpm based22:28
koethats not good22:28
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koeand starnge considering maemo/harmattan was deb-based22:29
Aardkoe: meego was rpm-based.22:30
koeyes, i know.22:32
Aardboth package formats are not that well suited for mobile devices, and both have different advantages/disavantages22:33
tehdelyi bet this channel has been busy today22:36
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ptlrzr: checking, thanks22:59
ptlgood news that one23:04
ptlI cannot see why deb would not be well suited for mobile devices23:04
ptlor rpm for that matter.23:04
tehdelythe lack of built-in DRM support is the only thing i can think of23:05
tehdelyand some of us look at that as a feature :)23:05
Aardsome operations are too expensive23:05
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ptlAard: like what? post-install scripts?23:19
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Aardptl: dpkg relies a lot on parsing text files, which is awfully slow; the package itself is archive-in-archive, which is not that elegant, and makes accessing packagage metadata slow23:20
Aardafter having used both formats for some time I prefer rpm with zypper, now that zypper is stable enough for daily use23:22
admiral0pkg.tar.xz <323:22
ptlsomehow I don't see that as a big deterrent, just minor speed differences maybe23:22
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Aardptl: on the n900 it was a pain (and no, I'm not talking about the package manager frontend, which made the situation even worse)23:23
Aardon the n9 it's less noticable due to more powerful hardware, but could still be sped up drastically23:24
japhagreed, dpkg is really really slow, being used to libalpm23:24
ZogGAard, i prefer portage23:24
ZogGAard, btw as i heared from funtoo devs, chromeOS use it as base23:25
ZogGtehdely you want DRM as dev or for what reasons?23:26
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AardDRM is so dead nowadays ;)23:27
tehdelyZogG: oh, i don't want DRM at all23:29
tehdelybut it seems to be a requirement for a lot of carriers and vendors23:29
tehdelyso i was just pointing out lack of built-in DRM as a potential downfall for a mobile package system23:29
tehdelynot my priorities; theirs23:30
ZogGtehdely, it doesnt work anyway23:30
ZogGlike iTunes23:30
ZogGi need to upload music into itunes to upload to phone23:30
tehdelyit is destined for the dustbin of history23:30
tehdely(i hope)23:30
* tehdely &23:30
ZogGit would be painful, but it checks if it's DRM on phone and not if i downloaded it from TPB23:31
ZogGdo it even worse by macking my local music DRM official music on phone =)23:31
ZogGi jsut can't send it over phone to people23:32
ZogGooooh, so bad, because i can just share with flash drives or P2P is i want - so what exactly is the poin?23:32
ZogGtehdely, i hope it would die soo, i hope flash would be replaced, vendors would support linux and the patents war would stop being ridiculous. So people can be involved in developing new things and new technology =)23:34
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