IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-07-07

jesuschrist^	yeah	00:00
rZr	now we're tomorrow ! https://twitter.com/rzrfreefr/status/221340605878501377	00:01
jesuschrist^	i wish they would open the UI	00:03
jesuschrist^	im so fucking sad about nokia	00:06
itsnotabigtruck	:(	00:07
jesuschrist^	still wondering, if symbian is gone	00:08
jesuschrist^	and meego is gone	00:08
jesuschrist^	and meltemi too	00:08
jesuschrist^	what will be the feature phone os they going to make '	00:09
jesuschrist^	what will be the feature phone os they going to make ''	00:09
jesuschrist^	fu	00:09
ajalkane	s40	00:09
jesuschrist^	?	00:09
ajalkane	But basically... stupid is as stupid does.	00:09
ajalkane	Nokia's leadership is totally whacked.	00:09
ajalkane	Let us enjoy our maemo devices. I had my last Nokia phone for 5 years. I don't see any reason to switch from N9 for similar time.	00:10
ajalkane	After that the mobile landscape might be quite different.	00:10
jesuschrist^	i miss a lot of thing on my n9 tbh	00:11
ajalkane	That's good. You miss something, you fire up the SDK and fill the need ;)	00:11
jesuschrist^	im no developer, im a sysop :(	00:13
ajalkane	never too late to become a developer! It's kind of fun change of routine between changing diapers :P	00:14
rZr	i thought you were a profet	00:14
jesuschrist^	im contemplating leaving IT as a whole	00:14
ajalkane	Jesus H. Christ. Don't tell me you've found god?	00:15
jesuschrist^	i dont wanna die in front of a monitor :(	00:15
rZr	jesuschrist^, trust me : beware of cross	00:15
ajalkane	Monitor is a modern day cross. Accept your fate.	00:15
rZr	+!	00:16
rZr	+1	00:16
jesuschrist^	:(	00:16
ajalkane	But who is the modern day god that you can cry to "why have you forsaken me!"? Can it really be mr. Elop?	00:17
ajalkane	Oh my Elop...	00:18
ajalkane	Never realized.	00:18
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jesuschrist^	technically im god	00:19
jesuschrist^	so i have forsaken me	00:19
jesuschrist^	:(	00:19
ajalkane	Get out of here. You're just son of man.	00:20
jesuschrist^	depends on the christian sect actually	00:20
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ajalkane	I am becoming confused. Okay, I'm just content that you can make water into wine.	00:21
ajalkane	I think all the sects can agree on that fact.	00:21
jesuschrist^	the divinity of christ was (is?)	00:22
jesuschrist^	seen very differently from many christians grou	00:23
jesuschrist^	p	00:23
ajalkane	Well, I think the sword has mainly taken care of those blapshemers denying the divinity of the christ.	00:24
jesuschrist^	fuck yeah	00:24
jesuschrist^	still christ as son of god originated in the V century	00:25
jesuschrist^	400 years after his death	00:25
jesuschrist^	i need a girlfriend	00:26
jesuschrist^	:(	00:26
ajalkane	The Higgs particle was found over 50 years after it's prophecy. True discoveries sometimes take time.	00:26
ajalkane	Okay, we still don't know if it's really Higgs. So it might still take more time.	00:27
ajalkane	Hmm... speaking of girlfriends. It is my understanding Jesus is supposed to date whores?	00:27
jesuschrist^	jeovah witnesses still denies christ godness	00:28
jesuschrist^	cant blame him, you pay, you get served, no bitching around	00:28
ajalkane	But those guys have missed end of world predictions so many times that I think we can discount their beliefs.	00:28
jabis	it's just a fucking particle - get over it x)	00:28
ajalkane	Yeah. If I wasn't married I'd say whores are pretty cool. Alas, I won't say it.	00:29
jabis	the theories've been utilised for multiple decades already - not such a big deal	00:29
jabis	I'm married and I can say whores are pretty cool - providing service for the needy & greedy	00:30
ajalkane	jabis: but it's the god particle! If we find it, and can open that goddamn particle, we will find Yahwe inside it. What would you do with a little Yahwe in your hand? I have some ideas.	00:30
jabis	squash the little bugger of course	00:31
jabis	or feed it to my cats	00:31
ajalkane	I can't say that. I think my wife would object to my sexual advances if I'd say that aloud :(	00:31
ajalkane	I think I'd store it in a goldfish bowl and look how he runs around in it	00:32
ajalkane	It'd be fascinating	00:32
itsnotabigtruck	yeah, the trinitarian view is definitely the mainstream	00:32
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jesuschrist^	i thought protestants dont follow trinity for the most	00:33
tehdely	wait, someone ported screen to HARM?	00:33
tehdely	i need that badly :)	00:34
jabis	who made it "the god particle"? man - oh rite - mankind is stupid x)	00:34
jabis	I had screen at some point on PR 1.1	00:35
jabis	rzr's repos I'd recall	00:35
tehdely	link to said repos	00:35
tehdely	are they something i can put in sources.list and start using?	00:35
tehdely	or not quite	00:35
jesuschrist^	btw rZr thanks for your repos!	00:35
rZr	you welcome	00:36
rZr	btw since you're a sysop :	00:36
rZr	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233130#post1233130	00:36
itsnotabigtruck	jesuschrist^: nah, most protestants are trinitarian	00:37
itsnotabigtruck	most non-trinitarian denominations aren't exactly very orthodox	00:37
itsnotabigtruck	and yeah, all that 'god particle' stuff is pretty lol :p	00:37
tehdely	yes, thx rzr	00:39
itsnotabigtruck	http://www.dorkly.com/comic/33251/the-videogame-hype-chart	00:40
jesuschrist^	im not following you rZr	00:40
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jesuschrist^	need help migrating stuff since tmp is going offline	00:41
jesuschrist^	?	00:41
jesuschrist^	s/tmp/tmo	00:41
tehdely	which repo has screen	00:41
niwakame	gosh	00:41
niwakame	itsnotabigtruck: you there?	00:41
jesuschrist^	openvpn is already there anyway	00:41
itsnotabigtruck	niwakame: yeah	00:41
itsnotabigtruck	and is there a date for tmo going boom?	00:41
niwakame	itsnotabigtruck: I have a problem with signon, mind having a query with me?	00:41
itsnotabigtruck	nope	00:42
jesuschrist^	i have openvpn installed on the phone but i have to yet to try it, cant remember on wich repo i found it	00:42
jesuschrist^	ii openvpn 2.1.3-3harmatt virtual private network daemon	00:42
rZr	<tehdely> which repo has screen	00:44
rZr	rzr:harmattan	00:44
rZr	i am gone	00:44
jesuschrist^	bye rzr	00:45
rZr	jesuschrist^, yes the whole infrastucture will melt like ice under the sun ... nokia will cut fuel end 2012	00:45
jesuschrist^	i thought the tmo admin said he would give anyone having the infrastructure	00:45
jesuschrist^	the backup and stuff	00:45
jesuschrist^	i read it somewhere on tmp	00:45
jesuschrist^	ahem tmo	00:45
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tehdely	it does not seem to be in any of them, i have just looked	00:46
jesuschrist^	tehdely	00:46
tehdely	yessir	00:47
jesuschrist^	http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/djszapi/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan/armel/screen_4.0.3-14_armel.deb	00:47
tehdely	it whines on install: install: can't change ownership of /var/run/screen: Operation not permitted	00:48
tehdely	shall i incept?	00:48
jesuschrist^	no	00:49
jesuschrist^	simply do a chmod 777 on /varblablablah	00:49
tehdely	ok thx to you i have screen and thanks to rzr i have vim	00:51
tehdely	what more does a man need, really	00:51
tehdely	thank you both very much	00:51
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tehdely	hmm	00:52
tehdely	Cannot open your terminal '/dev/pts/0' - please check.	00:52
tehdely	i assume this is some aegis nonsense	00:52
jesuschrist^	exactly	00:53
jesuschrist^	it works as user	00:53
jesuschrist^	anyway	00:53
jesuschrist^	not as root, unless you login as root	00:53
tehdely	yay!	00:53
rcg1	the funny thing about aegis is to figure out whether you did something wrong or if it's simply aegis being bitchy	00:53
rcg1	with "funny" as in "drilling a hole through your knee"	00:54
tehdely	now what i would love is a magic package which adds ALAC decoding to the music app	00:55
tehdely	but i am sure that is too much to ask :/	00:55
jesuschrist^	what the hell is alac	00:55
tehdely	apple lossless	00:56
tehdely	i've ripped a lot of stuff in that fmt over the years	00:56
jesuschrist^	thats your punishment for owning an ipod	00:56
jesuschrist^	feel the pain !	00:56
tehdely	be that as it may, i sure don't feel like converting all that crap	00:56
jesuschrist^	:>	00:56
tehdely	esp. given that iTunes is my main music player on mac	00:56
tehdely	i wonder if Muine is still maintained :>	00:56
jesuschrist^	i think apple lossless is proprietary or something like that	00:57
jesuschrist^	still my cowon plays it, unoffically	00:57
itsnotabigtruck	jesuschrist^: sounds like it needs some hacking to make it aegis-friendly	00:58
itsnotabigtruck	rather than a straight port	00:58
jesuschrist^	are you talking about screen itsnotabigtruck ?	00:58
itsnotabigtruck	yeah	00:59
jesuschrist^	its not my own work	00:59
itsnotabigtruck	though i don't really get the point of screen on the n9, really	01:00
rZr	ssh ?	01:00
rZr	well you probally use mosh	01:00
rZr	but screen is one of the 1st apps i wanted	01:01
rZr	1st one was rsync	01:01
rZr	then git	01:01
rZr	zile	01:01
tehdely	screen and vim were on the top of my list	01:01
tehdely	now i have em both	01:01
rZr	i use zile	01:01
tehdely	i haven' teven set up sdk yet	01:01
tehdely	i'm slackin	01:01
tehdely	by the time i get around to it	01:01
tehdely	all the websites and instructions will be down/broken	01:01
tehdely	i want badly to port asterisk	01:01
tehdely	why _not_ run a PBX on my phone	01:01
itsnotabigtruck	o.O	01:01
jesuschrist^	lolz	01:02
itsnotabigtruck	but yeah, i don't know what the precise problems are w/ screen but it sounds like something needs adaptation	01:02
tehdely	great would be if i could hook it into the telephony framework (somehow)	01:02
itsnotabigtruck	e.g. that device node problem	01:02
tehdely	so that asterisk answered all calls instead of the phone app	01:02
tehdely	you could call my phone and get a menu	01:02
jesuschrist^	yeah actually if there was a way to hack the codecs of the native SIP client on the n9 it would rock	01:02
jesuschrist^	since in europe on 3g calls suck	01:02
jesuschrist^	anyone tried ?	01:02
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rZr	i mainly use wifi	01:03
rZr	and sip	01:03
* rZr has old n810 habbits :)		01:03
jesuschrist^	using g729 would really help imo	01:03
tehdely	well i would like to have asterisk running locally. and configured as a SIP account	01:04
tehdely	so that the dialer app is actually placing calls through asterisk	01:04
tehdely	and also have asterisk answer all calls	01:04
tehdely	so it would effectively serve as a proxy between the phone app and the cellular network	01:04
itsnotabigtruck	does tmux have any issues on harmattan?	01:04
rZr	do you know about ofono ?	01:04
itsnotabigtruck	might be a better choice over screen	01:04
rZr	itsnotabigtruck, it worked for me	01:04
tehdely	nope	01:04
rZr	itsnotabigtruck, but i am used to screen shortcuts	01:05
itsnotabigtruck	yeah but it has permission problems and that rules it out	01:05
rZr	tmux : http://www.who.is.free.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=term#misc	01:05
rZr	itsnotabigtruck, what do u expect from the following 24hours ?	01:07
jesuschrist^	http://forum.meego.com/archive/index.php/t-5476.html	01:07
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itsnotabigtruck	rzr: hmm? nothing :p	01:15
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rcg1	rZr: following 24 hours?	01:31
rcg1	what except the common sun/moon rise/fall cycle is expected to happen?	01:31
azeem	he's probably referring to https://twitter.com/jukkaeklund/status/221325945024425984	01:33
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rcg1	azeem:	01:35
rcg1	alright	01:35
rcg1	wrt to the term "interesting", i liked how mr spock differentiated between "interesting" and "fascinating" ;)	01:36
azeem	same for restaurant critics	01:37
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rcg1	well, personally i prefer spock over any restaurant critic :)	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	interesting	01:46
* DocScrutinizer05 yawns		01:46
niwakame	Fear the power of highlight! ZogG ZogG_laptop	01:47
niwakame	Guess he's out	01:49
azeem	or your power is too weak	01:51
niwakame	Nah, it's the power of highlight, not mine. But in these days where media is all around it may have weakened	01:52
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M4rtinK	lets try again: ZogG, ZogG_laptop we are you father !!	01:52
M4rtinK	dun dun	01:53
M4rtinK	dun	01:53
niwakame	See :)	01:53
niwakame	But that's ok for me. Forced development stops help to get sleep :>	01:54
niwakame	itsnotabigtruck: thanks again!	01:54
M4rtinK	my power-level is apparently also too low :)	01:54
niwakame	Lesson learned: When doing anything with internet based services that fails strangely, fire up tcpdump and check the transmission before trying to tinker with anything else	01:55
niwakame	m(	01:55
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itsnotabigtruck	niwakame: lol	01:56
itsnotabigtruck	later!	01:56
niwakame	On the other hand, it just could have told me "Bad request received" when it's already checking for damn status code 200 anyway!	01:57
niwakame	May be due to "I'll make this work for now, I only need status code 200. Code clean up will be done later"	01:58
niwakame	So I'm out. Sleep well / good morning / hope your lunch tastes good! [select depending on location and time]	02:00
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itsnotabigtruck	if anyone feels like rolling custom firmware images	02:06
itsnotabigtruck	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1233157&postcount=13	02:06
itsnotabigtruck	i posted a summary of what to do	02:06
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jonni	itsnotabigtruck: I though that fiasco-gen images are only flashable to R&D cert devices, but maybe I havent checked if PR1.2+ bootloader would be more liberal.	02:14
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jonni	itsnotabigtruck: or are you sure that you can use fiasco-gen to CE devices?	02:15
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jonni	and if I remember right, harmattan fiasco-gen isnt even avail to public.	02:22
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itsnotabigtruck	you can flash any fiasco image you want, as long as the contents are acceptable	02:24
itsnotabigtruck	the image itself isn't signed, it only optionally contains an sw cert that is signed	02:24
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itsnotabigtruck	if you flash an image without an sw cert, it just keeps the old sw cert	02:24
jonni	ohwell, I'll have to then retest my old custom images that I did for R&D devices a while back just to see if they work on CE	02:25
itsnotabigtruck	if you don't flash everything at once, it puts you into open mode	02:25
itsnotabigtruck	same if you have anything that mismatches the sw cert	02:25
itsnotabigtruck	(which is much stricter compared to pre-pr1.2nolo)	02:25
jonni	yes, even the ram boot kernel triggers open mode	02:26
itsnotabigtruck	also all of that is just based on my observations, since you have insider knowledge some of that stuff might be clearly wrong	02:26
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jonni	well I havent read the bootloader code for a while, so I'm not 100% sure, before I retest.	02:27
itsnotabigtruck	oh, and i know sparsify works because i put the n950 version of pr1.2 on my n9 with it :p	02:27
itsnotabigtruck	it was pretty glitchy though and i don't think it allows the battery to be charged	02:27
jonni	but anyways custom images are not a right way to solve the problem. for cssu or similar its just enough to have pgp signed repo with wanted packages, and have that key injected as com.nokia.maemo.	02:30
jonni	(unless there comes some more official way in the future)	02:32
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azeem	itsnotabigtruck: cool!	02:39
DocScrutinizer05	jonni: (unless there comes some more official way in the future) are you kidding?	02:40
jonni	DocScrutinizer05: well I have zero visibility what harmattan team has planned about possible sdk/cssu etc updates, I'm hoping that sdk would be updated and the N950 pr1.3 image released, but maybe I'm too optimistic :)	02:44
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* DocScrutinizer05 ponders about cssu-HARM		02:47
DocScrutinizer05	more sounds like HARM-HE	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	Hacker Edition	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	since you will need openmode for it aiui	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	I have to admit I lost all interest in HARM, since it seems like any devel trying to do any smarter things than just another random permutation of those 5 dozen QML widgets, well they all spend 5% of their time implementing the cool stuff and 95% they fuzz around with aegis to make it work	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	jonni: btw you say there actualy is any such thing like harmattan team still? even after the latest 10k-fatalities cleaning day @ Nokia?	02:59
azeem	I guess they weren't dumped overnight, that only happens at Wall St.	03:01
DocScrutinizer05	no, for sure they weren't. It's been known since long that PR1.3 is probably last publication ever from Nokia for maemo/meego	03:02
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to actually check that twitter (waaaaah!) page again		03:03
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Aard	DocScrutinizer05: well, there needs to be someone around for the next two years with the ability to releases in case critical breakages occur, though I can't talk about how they solved that	03:14
tehdely	maybe they can have Accenture do it ;)	03:18
* Aard whistles a bit		03:18
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: as if Nokia showed to care about anything like "long term" support for their 'carp'	03:21
DocScrutinizer05	N900 wasn't even fixable after < 24 months from initial rollout, due to Nokia dumped all spare parts	03:22
Aard	well, they did a fix for the n900 when there was thet CA desaster ;)	03:22
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M4rtinK	IIRC there are still shops selling N900 spare parts	03:34
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DocScrutinizer05	well yes, those that Nokia dumped and they bought those by the kg	05:30
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, could be worse.	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Could be Android.	05:43
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pa	so i installed the pr1.3 ota	09:46
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pa	but honestly it doesnt look to me that it's faster or that it occupies less ram, unlike what i read on tmo	09:46
pa	(i did the factory reset)	09:47
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Jeffrey04	is easy_install and pip available for harmattan?	10:46
jonni	Jeffrey04: no	11:02
Jeffrey04	jonni even after i enabled sdk repository?	11:02
Jeffrey04	i should get easy_install after installing python-setuptools from the sdk repository right?	11:04
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Jeffrey04	lol, install python-setuptools and used easy_install to install pip	11:14
Jeffrey04	not sure if this is the right way	11:14
Jeffrey04	but got pip installed at /usr/local/bin	11:15
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Jeffrey04	argh… https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=978 is still not fixed?	11:33
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jonni	Jeffrey04: you cannot add sdk repo to device, sdk repo is only for scratchbox env.	11:42
Jeffrey04	no?	11:42
Jeffrey04	er, ok	11:42
jonni	(or if you add, then your phone is quite likely going to be screwed at some point).	11:43
Jeffrey04	oh ok	11:43
Jeffrey04	didn't know that	11:43
Jeffrey04	got it from here http://my-meego.com/faq/showquestion.php?fldAuto=15&faq=1	11:43
Jeffrey04	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan/free/h/harmattan-repository/	11:43
Jeffrey04	so that's actually for the platform sdk?	11:44
jonni	yep thats only meant for scratchbox	11:44
Jeffrey04	ok, thanks for informing	11:44
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pawky	Great that finally pr 1.3 has come out! :-) Sad though they haven't fixed the obvious bug you cannot edit the text of an E-mail you want to forward or reply to... :-(	12:05
Jeffrey04	hahahaha, it is not out for everybody	12:05
Jeffrey04	at least i haven't receive it via OTA	12:05
Jeffrey04	:)	12:05
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japh	me neither	12:30
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rzr	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233288#post1233288	13:03
Jeffrey04	rzr: huh? what does that mean?	13:03
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Jeffrey04	http://www.linkedin.com/company/jolla apparently they are going to sell new MeeGo devices in future	13:09
SpeedEvil	Great!	13:10
SpeedEvil	I await the new smartphone revolution.	13:10
Jeffrey04	but isn't the development of MeeGo discontinued?	13:10
chouchoune	thay might be based on Mer	13:11
Jeffrey04	most probably	13:11
chouchoune	no idea though	13:11
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Jeffrey04	there isn't much info available for now though	13:12
Jeffrey04	oh, so they are not going to provide updates for N9? https://twitter.com/JollaMobile/status/221547029971730432	13:17
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alterego	We should all join #jolla or something to talk about this.	13:18
alterego	Hard straddling over several channels ;)	13:18
Stskeeps	not an official channel	13:18
alterego	Yer	13:18
Jeffrey04	erm, but there's nothing much to talk about for now, no?	13:19
Stskeeps	best thing to do is follow the twitter and wait for press release	13:19
Jeffrey04	:)	13:19
rzr	http://identi.ca/tag/jolla	13:19
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denism	"agressively hiring"	13:58
denism	interesting, is it an official Nokia Bridge company + do they have some discontinued IPR or not?..	13:58
Aard	denism: yep, if you have interesting skills you might find you in the back of a van suddenly ;)	13:59
alterego	unlikey	13:59
alterego	re ip	13:59
denism	Company size: 51-200. Hmmm.	13:59
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SpeedEvil	Aard: :)	14:08
denism	Aard: seems they are located in Helsinki again, so no cakes for other cities without relocation	14:14
Stskeeps	denism: what city are you in?	14:14
denism	Stskeeps: Tampere :)	14:14
Stskeeps	denism: FWIW, i'm not even in Finland and working with them	14:15
Aard	denism: I'm a jolla member, and we do have offices not only in helsinki	14:15
denism	Stskeeps, Aard: remote work is another case, but thank you for the info, really interesting then	14:15
Stskeeps	denism: if you're interested, please send a CV to carsten.munk@jollamobile.com	14:17
denism	but anyway, I think now, after the official announce - there will be hundreds CV for any position :) Even inside Finland.	14:17
rzr	I'll have to do that ...	14:17
denism	Stskeeps: thank you, I will try.	14:17
SpeedEvil	Aard: Stskeeps - whoever else - good luck!	14:18
rzr	but i am sure most nokia employee will ring the door before I hit the send email button	14:18
rzr	anway doing things too fast is not good at the end	14:18
Stskeeps	denism: in your specific case, attach portfolio	14:19
denism	Stskeeps: yes of course, thank you	14:24
dm8tbr	rzr: most probably already did before today ;)	14:25
dm8tbr	it's not like jolla magically happened today...	14:25
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macmaN	so there is no openvpn gui for harmattan yet? tray icon indicator, on/off switch perhaps..	14:57
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ZogG_laptop	macmaN: you are welcome to make mt-toggle	15:08
macmaN	yeah, of course that will kind of stop it from being widely used	15:09
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ZogG_laptop	alterego: still waiting for anything helpful with sigong-oauth2	15:17
Venemo_N9	heya	15:21
Venemo_N9	what's up?	15:22
alterego	ZogG_laptop: don't have, sorry	15:23
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Sput	Jolla should open an office in Ulm :>	16:13
Lava_Croft	jolla should remove the rpm stuff right away	16:13
Stskeeps	Sput: i live in Warsaw, Poland and work with them..	16:14
Stskeeps	who needs offices when you have sofas :)	16:14
Sput	I actually enjoy sharing an office with fellow devs	16:14
Stskeeps	:nod:	16:14
Stskeeps	so do i, at times	16:15
Sput	that's the worst thing about Nokia closing the Ulm site... destroying a few really good teams	16:15
Stskeeps	yeah	16:15
Aard	Sput: then you should come to finland. it's nicer here anyway ;)	16:15
Sput	well, I guess BMW will be happy to get a bunch of top-notch developers	16:15
Stskeeps	yes, especially in those IVI times	16:16
* SpeedEvil imagines rotary-sofa surfing teams.		16:16
Sput	yep	16:16
Sput	I think half of my team already applied there.	16:16
Sput	Nokia is really stupid to let all that talent go	16:17
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Stskeeps	yeah	16:18
Stskeeps	i can't imagine how their research branch is feeling about all this..	16:18
Sput	I'm not sure if they still have a research branch	16:21
Stskeeps	that's a good point	16:21
Sput	you don't need one for being an OEM anyway	16:21
Lava_Croft	the killing of knowledge by Nokia is just staggering	16:22
Lava_Croft	Nokia has the people that made it possible to run desktop linux on a ridiculously underpowered mobile device	16:23
Lava_Croft	and its like "naw dont need"	16:23
Lava_Croft	we gots wintoons	16:23
Sput	they're not killing it. they're handing it over to the competition, which currently rejoices about a flood of top-notch engineers on a market that has way more demand than supply...	16:23
Lava_Croft	killing as in killing it inside nokia	16:23
Lava_Croft	you can kill it alltogether	16:24
Lava_Croft	cant*	16:24
Lava_Croft	and to be fairly honest	16:24
Lava_Croft	i think all the developers etc are much better off outside of Nokia	16:24
Lava_Croft	since apparentlt Nokia just doesnt care	16:24
Sput	BMW showed up in Ulm the other day... "hey look, we're hiring 150 developers currently"	16:24
Lava_Croft	logical	16:24
Lava_Croft	BMW already uses meego, right	16:24
alterego	It is a funny move, considering a certain Linux based mobile OS is dominating the market.	16:25
Sput	not sure what they use currently... Genivi was supposed to be based on Meego in 2010, but there's multiple compliant implementations	16:25
Sput	probably Tizen these days	16:25
Sput	and QNX of course	16:25
alterego	But it also shows that the rumoured plan B of Android that some people like to dwell on is obviously false. ;)	16:25
Lava_Croft	lol	16:25
Lava_Croft	nokia wont do android	16:25
alterego	I know	16:25
Sput	Android would've been stupid two years ago, and it's even stupider today	16:26
alterego	Some people still think it's a possibility though, which is kinda hilarious.	16:26
Sput	(for Nokia)	16:26
Sput	in the market Nokia still makes money in, you need full control of the platform	16:26
Sput	can't rely on Google (or MS) to scale down their OSes to a point where your beautiful low-cost hardware runs properly with it	16:26
Sput	since this is so obvious to me, I probably am not manager material.	16:27
SpeedEvil	It's slightly questionable if 'throw windows away, put android on n9/all non s40 phones/all windows phones' might not cause dramaticlaly more sales.	16:28
Sput	oh, more than the WP8 strategy probably	16:28
SpeedEvil	At n9 launch time - there was a closing window of people who hadn't really used android or ios, but finally decided they needed a smartphone.	16:30
Sput	could've sold drastically more N9s	16:30
SpeedEvil	This demographic has now largely evaporated.	16:30
Sput	and created the mythical third ecosystem even a year ago	16:30
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	16:30
Sput	maybe even throw the N950 in the mix	16:30
SpeedEvil	yup	16:30
Sput	so you have two top-notch smartphones at a time where users were frustrated with both Android and iOS	16:31
Sput	(plus a lot of people considering to switch from feature phones)	16:31
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Elleo	/16/28	16:41
Elleo	oops	16:41
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ZogG_laptop	Elleo: is you twitter Mike sheldon?	16:44
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ZogG_laptop	/s/you/your/	16:44
ZogG_laptop	s/you/your/	16:44
infobot	ZogG_laptop meant: /s/your/your/	16:44
ZogG_laptop	lol	16:44
Elleo	ZogG_laptop: yep, @mikesheldon	16:50
ZogG_laptop	~source	17:06
infobot	To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file. Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source. The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`.	17:06
ZogG_laptop	~sources	17:07
infobot	I guess you mean the handhelds sources, see http://handhelds.org/sources.html	17:07
ZogG_laptop	what is the link for the 1.2 sources?	17:07
Lava_Croft	here, some hype for the Qt fans:	17:12
Lava_Croft	1605 <+Lava_Croft> god why am i even defending that treehugger	17:12
Lava_Croft	er	17:12
Lava_Croft	what	17:12
Lava_Croft	oh my god paste	17:13
Lava_Croft	http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/your-rim-questions-answered-ceo-thorsten-heins-responds/article4395605/?page=1	17:13
Lava_Croft	i meant that:D	17:13
* Lava_Croft flees the scene		17:13
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pa	my impression or 1.3 drains battery?	17:22
alterego	Apparently the bug is actually the battery indicatot.	17:24
alterego	indicator ..	17:24
alterego	Sounds like something Apple would do.	17:24
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pa	that jumps to something to 4%?	17:25
pa	yes	17:25
pa	but i meant in general	17:25
pa	is it only my impression that it drains the battery faster?	17:26
alterego	Can't say I've noticed it.	17:27
alterego	Seems I'm using it the same as always and getting the same battery life :)	17:27
Elleo	alterego: I think the bug you're thinking of (battery drain by indicator) is in a 3rd party app	17:28
Elleo	alterego: it adds a battery indicator icon to the launcher	17:28
Elleo	but updates it really frequently and causes lots of other stuff to wake up too (because tracker has to wake up when an application icon changes)	17:28
Elleo	it doesn't have anything to do with the core harmattan stuff	17:29
alterego	Ah, right.	17:29
Elleo	personally I've not seen any battery different between 1.2 and 1.3	17:29
Elleo	difference*	17:29
Elleo	or not enough of a difference to notice at any rate	17:29
pa	ah okay	17:30
pa	then it is probably okay	17:30
pa	Elleo, did you reflash, or upgrade ota?	17:30
Elleo	ota	17:30
pa	ok	17:30
alterego	if anything it seems better to me	17:30
pa	is it possible to have suid root exes in harmattan?	17:37
pa	i mean on our own apps	17:38
Aard	pa: aegis provides the same functionality, though I'm not sure if it'd go through ovi store qa	17:40
pa	Aard, you mean suid functionality? like to write to a 644 file?	17:41
Aard	no, you'll have to request the proper aegis credentials in the packages manifest. file modes are irrelevant	17:42
macmaN	still waiting for 005 to get 1.3 :/	17:46
macmaN	sort of regretting now i didnt flash with 001 before i configured everything	17:46
pa	hm okay thanks!	17:49
jesuschrist^	i noticed 1.3 battery to be lower to 1.2 too	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	\o/ Jolla ???	18:06
Aard	DocScrutinizer05: you're trying to figure out if you should be happy, or not?	18:07
DocScrutinizer05	I'm trying to figure out if I like twitter or not	18:07
DocScrutinizer05	nah, I already decided I don't like that shit	18:08
DocScrutinizer05	since it seems impossible to get a decent chunk of info >120char	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	tewitter == neutered IRC for losers	18:10
DocScrutinizer05	anyway, I can't even comment on jolla since I got no clear idea what it's all about	18:12
DocScrutinizer05	>>Ex-Nokians form Jolla to continue MeeGo for N9 development! bit.ly/PuJp4P #n9 #meego .@jollamobile<< if this is to the point then good luck as meego is a very fuzzy term	18:13
DocScrutinizer05	meego for N9 is dead end anyway	18:14
ZogG_laptop	you always can check it with battery app that shows how it drains what and what apps draing what	18:14
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer05: and further down, working with #merproject	18:14
Stskeeps	but yes, meego's a fuzzy term these days	18:14
Stskeeps	more like an idea	18:14
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DocScrutinizer05	Stskeeps: hi! :-D	18:14
ZogG_laptop	Stskeeps: more like the basics people start with to make somethig more serious =0)	18:15
ZogG_laptop	Stskeeps: btw mer has no idea to make hardware or end-os but only base for that right?	18:15
Stskeeps	ZogG_laptop: correct, we do a core and just a core, with ability for hardware adaptations to tap into, and vendors to put that + uis on top	18:16
Stskeeps	ZogG_laptop: very intentional, too - so multiple companies can work together without clashing on typical areas	18:17
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Lava_Croft	and the work for you guys remains overseeable too	18:17
Stskeeps	that too, is easier to QA	18:17
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DocScrutinizer05	hmmm	18:17
Lava_Croft	i dont think there's any other viable option besides Mer on the 'market' anyway	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	feels like one more project 24 months late and never catching up	18:18
Lava_Croft	to what does it have to catch up	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	not the first one I've seen	18:18
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: I think it's different, because they're utilizing community openly, and it's built from some very talented engineers from inside Nokia and outside.	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	alterego: will this change things, really?	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	in 3..6 months, there's no more N9 to buy in shops, just like N900 now	18:20
Jeffrey04	DocScrutinizer05: there will be used units	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	sure	18:21
Jeffrey04	there are some folks in malaysia starting to sell their units off	18:21
Jeffrey04	claiming it problematic	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	good luck anyway with "meego on N9" - to me it feels like it's among the worst base to start such project from	18:23
Jeffrey04	lol	18:23
Aard	DocScrutinizer05: n9 is of no relevance to jolla. n9 is a nokia-phone.	18:23
Lava_Croft	yup	18:23
Jeffrey04	I have heard people saying they are gonna base their work with mer	18:23
Jeffrey04	iirc	18:24
Jeffrey04	nothing official so far though i guess	18:24
Stskeeps	Jeffrey04: it's official on twitter, "works with #merproject"	18:24
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Lava_Croft	from what i understand, the do not intend to make software for nokia devices at all, officially	18:24
Jeffrey04	Stskeeps: lol, I think I missed that one	18:24
Stskeeps	Lava_Croft: there is a long range of complications with that.. along with the hw blobs for n9xx saying not for commercial usage	18:25
Jeffrey04	Stskeeps: too many people are spamming things about #jollamobile LOL	18:25
Stskeeps	/ redistribution	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	twitter is great, isn't it?	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	at least great for spreading rumour and pseudo-info	18:25
Stskeeps	Lava_Croft: but through participation in merproject, there should be benefits anyway..	18:25
Aard	Lava_Croft: yes, nokia devices will obviously still be supported by mer/nemo, but we'll not provide anything for that from jolla side	18:25
Lava_Croft	aye	18:25
ZogG_laptop	Stskeeps: but today market is between OS's, is there anyone laready interested in mer? i mean someone who intend to do end-user hrdware with it?	18:26
ZogG_laptop	Stskeeps: i still do not understand how it would work out	18:26
Stskeeps	ZogG_laptop: there's ongoing projects in various companies, but remember that mer focuses on small to medium enterprises	18:27
Lava_Croft	it's becoming easier and easier for smaller parties to get their 'own' hardware	18:27
Stskeeps	and for what it matters, we don't always know people are doing projects with us	18:27
Stskeeps	until we accidentially hear about them	18:27
Stskeeps	like, what a contributor really works on	18:27
dm8tbr	like today ;)	18:28
Jeffrey04	guess I should start saving money to buy a device from them in future	18:28
Jeffrey04	hahahahahahahhaha	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	well, some others would call all this "fud" - I hate that term	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	but fact is the amount of decent info available makes it feel silly to even discuss the whole thing	18:29
alterego	What do you want to know DocScrutinizer05 ?	18:29
alterego	Ask questions, and maybe you'll get answers ..	18:29
Stskeeps	or 'we can't tell you yet', as it does happen	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	well, let's start with "what is jolla?"	18:30
alterego	Jolla is a company started by ex-nokians that worked on maemo/meego, they plan on distributing handsets based on Qt and the merproject.	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	or even more generic: "is there anything worth reading? related to linux on mobiles"	18:31
Jeffrey04	just out of curiousity, is jolla related to cloudberrytech?	18:31
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure what you'd find interesting ;)	18:31
Jeffrey04	will you guys co-operate?	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	alterego: WUT? ex nokians plan to distribute handsets?	18:31
alterego	Jeffrey04: no, not exactly, but I think they're friends and may collaborate.	18:31
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: yes. manufacturer and sell handsets.	18:31
alterego	-r	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	hey, now THAT sounds interesting	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	for me as EE	18:32
Aard	Jeffrey04: we are not related, apart from the fact that we were colleagues in nokia.	18:32
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer05: next problem, we actually know you ;)	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	alterego: however I have a hard time believing in that detail of Jolla Inc going to be a hw manufacturer	18:33
Stskeeps	[17:27] <Lava_Croft> it's becoming easier and easier for smaller parties to get their 'own' hardware	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, rant	18:35
alterego	iirc cloudberry are the workers from oulo?	18:35
alterego	ollo?	18:35
* alterego doesn't remember details ...		18:35
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: why?	18:35
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alterego	DocScrutinizer05: and I don't think that matters ;)	18:35
DocScrutinizer05	RL experience	18:35
alterego	What you believe I mean.	18:35
DocScrutinizer05	I'm dealing with "building own hw" since ~5 years now	18:36
alterego	You're not a company.	18:36
alterego	And you don't have the combined experience of these Nokia engineers.	18:36
DocScrutinizer05	I'm as much a company as jolla	18:36
alterego	And you don't have the investors these guys have.	18:36
alterego	And by investors they have, I mean, you don't have investors :P	18:37
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, they have investors?	18:37
DocScrutinizer05	whom?	18:37
alterego	How would I know :P	18:37
DocScrutinizer05	well, of course I won't get to know... that s business	18:37
alterego	I don't work for them, I'm just going by what I've read today.	18:37
Jeffrey04	guess i should bookmark the logs and check back when i wake up tomorrow :P	18:38
alterego	And they've stated their intention to develop and distrubute handsets based on Mer/MeeGo, they also mentioned having partners and investors going along with them.	18:38
Aard	DocScrutinizer05: we do have international investors, but that's as much as you get ;)	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	more than I expected	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	so that sounds kinda promissing	18:39
alterego	Right, so now I have something to actually look forward to, and I don't have to go Android or something else.	18:39
ZogG_laptop	Aard: so you are part of that?	18:39
alterego	Hopefully :)	18:39
Aard	ZogG_laptop: yes, I'm a jolla employee	18:39
ZogG_laptop	alterego: the question is it would be anoother stop again	18:39
ZogG_laptop	like N900 was awesome but suddenly meego comes and than n9 and than tizen and than that and next would be something else	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	if a statement like "those molds for the case are ~200k$" isn't already a killer for your project, that's a nice situation for you	18:40
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: they've also mentioned their intention to be as open as possible, which is also something to look forward to.	18:40
ZogG_laptop	while the thing here is just to keep working on 1 thing and polishing it	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	alterego: a statement a former employer of me also had as their major mantra	18:41
alterego	ZogG_laptop: I see what you mean with Tizen, but N900->MeeGo->N9 was just a progression.	18:41
ZogG_laptop	alterego: Nokia said maemo and meego are linux phones but than closed things and aegis come =)	18:41
ZogG_laptop	alterego: it wssn't progression	18:41
alterego	ZogG_laptop: they didn't close anything that wasn't already closed :P And they openned quite a lot up.	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	alterego: and believe me, it's an annoying fight with chip manufs to get clearance to disclose datasheets	18:42
alterego	The entire MeeGo Touch Framework, formerly DUI was open-sourced for MeeGo.	18:42
alterego	DocScrutinizer05: I'm aware of logistical issues with these things, but I'm sure they wouldn't have attempted this endeavour without being sure of themselves.	18:42
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ZogG_laptop	and missing parts and docs and manuals	18:42
alterego	Jolla have been forming for almost a year. I'm sure they've been very busy planning their strategy.	18:43
DocScrutinizer05	I doubt anybody inside Nokia ever really wrapped his head around that particular aspect	18:43
ZogG_laptop	alterego: but n900 was step 6 of 6 while n9 was setp 0 of X =)	18:43
alterego	ZogG_laptop: N900 was step 4/5, N950 was 5/5. N9 was 0 of X	18:43
alterego	Harmattan is clearly the progression on from Maemo5	18:44
ZogG_laptop	alterego: wouldn't agree as n950 in my eyes is n9 as we talk about platform and not HW	18:44
alterego	They only called it MeeGo because it was an agreement they had with Intel.	18:44
alterego	ZogG_laptop: your eyes don't matter, this is reality :P	18:44
ZogG_laptop	alterego: harmattan is like not really meego but alredy not maemo =\	18:44
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alterego	The fact is Harmattan is maemo6 really. With MeeGo Touch Framework giving it a somewhat MeeGo 1.2 compliant API	18:45
ZogG_laptop	alterego: reality? so where did you get that n950 is 6/6 ? was it intent to run real maemo?	18:45
alterego	It's a progression of Maemo, it was being planned years before the N900 came out.	18:45
alterego	ZogG_laptop: I said N950 was originally to be step 5/5	18:45
ZogG_laptop	alterego: that just proves that they changed core part instead of evolutioning it	18:45
alterego	ZogG_laptop: what core?	18:45
alterego	ZogG_laptop: the core is still a deb based linux system.	18:45
Aard	ZogG_laptop: n9/n950 was the 'do a device for consumers' step of the big plan. n900 and before were strictly speaking hacker devices, not consumer ready	18:46
ZogG_laptop	alterego: originally it was n900 to be step 5/5 but than it suddenly became 5/6 =)	18:46
DocScrutinizer05	guys, does nomenclature about step x of y matter anyway?	18:46
alterego	ZogG_laptop: no, 4/5	18:46
alterego	Step 1: 770, 2: N800, 3: N810, 4:N900, 5: N950/N9	18:46
ZogG_laptop	Aard: that's why i say it wasn't in line with maemo devices	18:46
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Aard	ZogG_laptop: no, it is in link, since it builds on everything that has been done before	18:47
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: does your company already have any "face" (URL, whatever)?	18:47
alterego	The move to Qt, the creation of DUI was all planned for step 5 (N9/50), it was planned even during Maemo4.	18:47
Aard	DocScrutinizer05: we will have soon.	18:47
alterego	Harmattan is 100% Maemo,	18:47
Aard	ZogG_laptop: both on the n9 (and on mer/meego) you'll find several components from ancient maemo origin	18:48
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: so let's assume I'd be interested to participate on a professional level, what am I supposed to do?	18:48
alterego	MeeGo 1.2 was used, because DUI, now MTF, was the toolkit for creating handset UXs that Nokia bought to the MeeGo table.	18:48
Aard	you just don't see them as developer since they're acting as backends for qt apis	18:48
alterego	Aegis was always planned.	18:48
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ZogG_laptop	Aard: i think parts are less relevant than core.	18:48
alterego	ZogG_laptop: and the core is Maemo, through-and-through ..	18:48
ZogG_laptop	alterego: even in times of maemo?	18:49
alterego	ZogG_laptop: yes, I have stated that fact several times :P	18:49
Aard	DocScrutinizer05: depends on what kind of participation. we're working on mer and related projects in the open, and can use any help we get there. or you can contact us by irc or mail addresses which were published about less public cooperations (or send us your CV)	18:49
Aard	ZogG_laptop: the core is maemo. qt-mobility is just a nice api around maemo legacy core	18:50
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: thanks, will /query you about that eventually	18:50
ZogG_laptop	alterego: it was such base that people working on project to make fremantle stuff to run on harmattan and it is hard work	18:50
alterego	ZogG_laptop: During Maemo4, Nokia planned to use Qt as a strategy across all their handsets, so they moved development away from Gtk/Hildon and started working on DUI, built on the Qt Graphics Framework. When Maemo 5 came out and the N900, we got Qt, so developers would start writing Qt applications to work on Maemo5, which would be completely Qt based, DUI continued to evolve, but Nokia teamed up with Intel, Nokia's contribution to MeeGo was DUI, which	18:51
ZogG_laptop	DUI?	18:51
ZogG_laptop	~DUI	18:52
ZogG_laptop	developer ui?	18:52
alterego	Direct User Interface, it was the original name for MeeGo Touch Framework.	18:52
Aard	ZogG_laptop: the hard work comes from not supporting gtk or classic qt on harmattan anymore -- there were attempts to make classic qt look nice, but they were abandoned	18:52
ZogG_laptop	a	18:52
Aard	ZogG_laptop: 'developing under influence'	18:52
alterego	It was a pain in the ass.	18:52
ZogG_laptop	Aard: i think it's about to be able to run them somehower at all	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	regarding "kind of participation" my interests and competences are with hw-review/design, general system architecture with emphasis on the hw side, and interface between hardware and software departments, as well as interface to community about stuff that needs filtering prior to disclosure	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: ^^^	18:52
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ZogG_laptop	pitty i have no degree or knowledge to work in suh startups ever =)	18:53
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ZogG_laptop	alterego: so you see after all meego step was step aside, thats why 5/5 never came in real	18:53
alterego	It did become real	18:55
alterego	N9/50 was Step 5/5	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	Aard: typical work package: "review this schematics please. List all design glitches and possible zero/low-cost improvements"	18:55
alterego	But it was too late.	18:55
alterego	Elop had already destroyed that department and claimed their new strategy, which was going to be Maemo 6 / MeeGo / Harmattan, was now Microsoft Windows Phone.	18:56
alterego	So step 5/5 happened, that is the N9 and the N950, it is MeeGo/Harmattan. It was also the end of Nokia's journey with GNU/Linux in the highend market.	18:56
alterego	So the team that were working on Maemo started working on a new project, Meltemi, which was a Linux stack for mid-range smartphones, their next billion strategy, built on Harmattan and all the Maemo revisions before that. But targetted at the emerging smartphone markets.	18:57
alterego	That got destroyed a few weeks ago.	18:57
alterego	And thus ended Nokia's workings with Linux platform development.	18:58
ZogG_laptop	maybe you are right but i think originally planned 5/5 was not that	18:58
alterego	ZogG_laptop: yes, it was.	18:58
alterego	And it always had been.	18:58
alterego	The Maemo team executed the 5 step plan as intended. Not without disruptions, their company falling down around them, and toolkit changes.	18:59
alterego	But their 5 step plan was executed as intended.	18:59
alterego	And it worked, it was just a little too late, if it was before Elop had arrived, Nokia would be somewhere quite different today.	18:59
alterego	And we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't even be in this irc channel.	19:00
alterego	Even now, I think N9 has out sold all of the Lumia devices	19:00
alterego	Though maybe not now with the 900	19:00
Aard	alterego: well, maybe you'd be in this irc channel, but instead discussing the next 10 cool nokia harmattan devices ;)	19:00
alterego	Aard: neah, if it had worked, if Elop hadn't had screwed us all over. We'd all still be in #meego	19:01
alterego	Working with Intel.	19:01
alterego	tbf, Nokia has predictably always fallen down when it's attempted to work openly with other companies.	19:01
Aard	as someone who has worked on meego quite early on I'm not that sure about that ;)	19:01
alterego	If Nokia had not joined forces for that short time with Intel, we would have had the N950 probably 6-12 months before we had it.	19:02
Aard	alterego: no.	19:02
alterego	No?	19:02
alterego	All the parts were finished.	19:02
Aard	hardware, yes. software, no.	19:03
alterego	It was only after the partnership with Intel that Nokia rewrote the software for swipe ui	19:03
alterego	We wouldn't have swipe ui, but we would have had the devices.	19:03
alterego	I think at least, but obviously, no one really knows for sure :)	19:03
alterego	And I've always been an outsider, until January this year when I was working on AF maintenance.	19:04
Aard	well, I'd say the rewrite would've happend without the cooperation as well. MTF was crap	19:04
alterego	So my maemo history account there was purely from what I've seen and been told :)	19:04
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alterego	Aard: sure, but swipe ui is written in MTF :P	19:04
alterego	I would have liked to have seen the original Harmattan UI.	19:05
alterego	I remember seeing the slides for it, and it looked interesting, a continual desktop like widget thingy.	19:05
alterego	s/thingy/canvas/	19:05
infobot	alterego meant: I remember seeing the slides for it, and it looked interesting, a continual desktop like widget canvas.	19:05
Aard	alterego: I believe you've seen one version of it ;)	19:05
ZogG_laptop	alterego: may you show me slides	19:05
alterego	Yeah, I heard there were many ;)	19:05
alterego	ZogG_laptop: not sure I can find them, it was a long time ago.	19:05
alterego	Aard: I've obviously also seen the MeeGo Handset UX reference	19:06
alterego	Which I'd imagine was a point of contention in Nokia, hence the swipe ux	19:06
alterego	Anyway, after this mammoth 7 year journey, to have all of this and finally Meltemi collapse, you can understand me being slightly annoyed :)	19:07
ZogG_laptop	alterego: i thought harmattan is what it was meant to be	19:07
Aard	there were many things going on. imo it would've been better to just finish one version, push out a device, then go on, that way we'd have a bunch of devices with improvements now, but that does not work in a dinosaur with management overhead	19:07
Aard	well, meltemi is not a surprise	19:07
alterego	No, I wasn't suprised at all.	19:07
alterego	I saw it coming a mile off.	19:08
alterego	It was too good to be true to be fair. After all we've been through.	19:08
ZogG_laptop	btw i never understood how when harmattan was dead already meltmi was going to be out? why not finish one thing?	19:08
Aard	alterego: I refused several offers on meltemi since I didn't believe it had a future, after I've seen some details of the project	19:08
alterego	ZogG_laptop: Meltemi was based on HArmattan, but wasn't a highend contender, it was meant as a smartphone for the next billion subscribers in emerging economies and markets.	19:09
ZogG_laptop	today kids have iphones	19:09
alterego	Aard: I was going to work on it after working on Harmattan, but obviously that never happened ;)	19:09
ZogG_laptop	what is low end smartphone than?	19:09
ZogG_laptop	alterego: leak the source as revenge	19:09
alterego	ZogG_laptop: not low end, middle range, cheap and functional for places like India and Africa.	19:09
alterego	ZogG_laptop: I still signed an NDA, I'll never leak anything.	19:10
alterego	But the information I do know, I will gladly help people reach their goals :P	19:10
ZogG_laptop	alterego: i told you what i need to complete my app =)	19:11
alterego	If I can, I didn't work on the entire platform. Though did work on a fair few chunks of it.	19:11
alterego	ZogG_laptop: told you I couldn't help there, sorry :P	19:11
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ZogG_laptop	alterego: so no facebook source or dropbox?	19:12
alterego	Nope	19:13
ZogG_laptop	damn	19:13
alterego	That would probably effect my future career options :P	19:13
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mike7b4athome	Twitter is exploding todays thanks to @ollamobile :D	19:18
mike7b4athome	@jollamobile *	19:19
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jabis	nice to hear teh jolla news	19:43
jabis	"not all is lost" ^^	19:44
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jaywink	cool news, maemo/meego has got too far and produced the best smartphone ever imho - good to know there are people who are determined to make use of what has been accomplished :)	19:58
jaywink	"MeeGo-based" trending on Twitter as well :)	20:01
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nibbler	jaywink: i would sign that. in verbatim.	20:07
Aard	hey nibbler. yet another known face I see here ;)	20:10
heymaster	unix:!isEmpty(MEEGO_VERSION_MAJOR) {} << Why does is triggered if I use Qt simulator target ?	20:12
heymaster	what to use for harmattan and Qt Simu;ator ?	20:13
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heymaster	Is N9 is armv6?	20:31
virtuald	armv7l	20:31
virtuald	i guess the l is for little endian but i don't really know	20:32
DocScrutinizer05	yep, afaik	20:32
heymaster	virtuald: so what to use if i want to compile library with gcc ? -arch armv7 ?	20:33
heymaster	--with-arch=armv7-a looks like	20:35
virtuald	sorry i don't know	20:35
heymaster	ok :)	20:36
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jonni	-O3 -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon	20:46
heymaster	jonni: thanks.. -arch was not recognized option. I'm using gcc from QtSDK Madde dir. I think this compiler will compile proper executable	20:51
heymaster	Without any options	20:51
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djszapi	https://twitter.com/JollaMobile -> funky	21:23
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ptl	Hi, how can I get a compiled 'aiccu' package for my N9 to setup an ipv6-to-ipv4 tunnel?	21:23
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koe	djszapi, pity it's meego, not harmattan	21:24
djszapi	koe: well, meego is way more open system than harmattan.	21:24
ptl	no aiccu for my N9?	21:25
koe	ptl, i can only suggest easy debian	21:26
koe	djszapi, yep, but harmattan at least has apps and one device, while meegos tizens and other b2g's have none	21:28
djszapi	koe: it is not about the past	21:30
djszapi	koe: it is about building the future.	21:30
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ptl	<- trying to find easy debian for the N9.	21:33
djszapi	ptl: why would you?	21:34
koe	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82114	21:34
koe	ptl ^	21:34
djszapi	Cannot you just contribute to the community repository by packaging that stuff ?	21:34
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djszapi	why would you run into a way more convoluted debian way?	21:34
koe	and http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1180952&postcount=57	21:35
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ptl	is there any place that has application like vim and irssi compiled for the N9?	21:37
djszapi	ptl: yes, the community repository	21:38
djszapi	ptl: irssi is even available in Ovi.	21:38
ptl	searching	21:39
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ptl	deb http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr:/harmattan/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/ ./	21:43
ptl	I found this one	21:43
ptl	isn't that for 1.2 only?	21:43
ptl	I've got PR1.3	21:43
djszapi	unsure what you mean.	21:44
djszapi	should work with 1.3	21:45
ptl	"Meego 1.2 harmattan"	21:45
ptl	ok	21:45
djszapi	ptl: wrong name selection.	21:47
ptl	The following packages have unmet dependencies: irssi: Depends: libperl5.10 (>= 5.10.1) but it is not going to be installed tmux: Depends: libevent-1.4-2 (>= 1.4.13-stable) but it is not installable	21:48
ptl	Did I use the right repository?	21:49
ptl	:(	21:53
ptl	djszapi?	21:56
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ptl	sorry	22:04
ptl	I got disconnected	22:04
ptl	anyone got any response on how to install irssi, mpg321, vim, lynx or any other common text-mode utilities via repositories?	22:05
rzr	ptl, we'll have to rebuilt those for pr1.3 i supose ...	22:05
rzr	-p+pp	22:05
ptl	oh	22:05
ptl	thanks, rzr	22:05
ptl	so I've got to wait, right?	22:05
rzr	i used to work before	22:05
rzr	or try to rebuild yourself	22:06
rzr	just fork them	22:06
ptl	I just got my N9 today	22:06
ptl	updated to PR1.3	22:06
ptl	still reading about this goddman aegis	22:06
ptl	I had a N900 before	22:06
ptl	thought it would be easier to install these	22:07
japh	and what do you think?	22:07
japh	I was horrible disapointed when I went from n900 -> n950... still not convinced someone thought the ui through. but it's at least usable now	22:08
ptl	N950? you are lucky	22:08
japh	it seems	22:09
japh	first time in my life :)	22:09
ptl	anyway, I bought N9 even after knowing that PR1.3 was the last update before the Nokia layoff	22:10
ptl	too bad it's sort of 'the end', but hope Tizen will get adopted by samsung or something	22:10
pa	do you think it's possible to compile evince for harmattan?	22:13
japh	ptl, yeah... but otoh the phone I had prior to me fetching the n900 was the 3310 :p	22:14
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pa	or okular	22:22
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Joku	Hi, I'm workind in a harmattan app and I was wondering if I create a lot of pages but I don't push them into the stack, will that consume memory? do I need to use a loader?	22:24
rzr	<ptl> too bad it's sort of 'the end', but hope Tizen will get adopted by samsung or something	22:25
rzr	you missed some info today	22:25
rzr	ptl, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233288#	22:25
koe	>>the distro is rpm based	22:28
koe	thats not good	22:28
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koe	and starnge considering maemo/harmattan was deb-based	22:29
Aard	koe: meego was rpm-based.	22:30
koe	yes, i know.	22:32
Aard	both package formats are not that well suited for mobile devices, and both have different advantages/disavantages	22:33
tehdely	i bet this channel has been busy today	22:36
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ptl	rzr: checking, thanks	22:59
ptl	good news that one	23:04
ptl	I cannot see why deb would not be well suited for mobile devices	23:04
ptl	or rpm for that matter.	23:04
tehdely	the lack of built-in DRM support is the only thing i can think of	23:05
tehdely	and some of us look at that as a feature :)	23:05
Aard	some operations are too expensive	23:05
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ptl	Aard: like what? post-install scripts?	23:19
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Aard	ptl: dpkg relies a lot on parsing text files, which is awfully slow; the package itself is archive-in-archive, which is not that elegant, and makes accessing packagage metadata slow	23:20
Aard	after having used both formats for some time I prefer rpm with zypper, now that zypper is stable enough for daily use	23:22
admiral0	pkg.tar.xz <3	23:22
ptl	somehow I don't see that as a big deterrent, just minor speed differences maybe	23:22
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Aard	ptl: on the n900 it was a pain (and no, I'm not talking about the package manager frontend, which made the situation even worse)	23:23
Aard	on the n9 it's less noticable due to more powerful hardware, but could still be sped up drastically	23:24
japh	agreed, dpkg is really really slow, being used to libalpm	23:24
ZogG	Aard, i prefer portage	23:24
ZogG	Aard, btw as i heared from funtoo devs, chromeOS use it as base	23:25
ZogG	tehdely you want DRM as dev or for what reasons?	23:26
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Aard	DRM is so dead nowadays ;)	23:27
tehdely	ZogG: oh, i don't want DRM at all	23:29
tehdely	but it seems to be a requirement for a lot of carriers and vendors	23:29
tehdely	so i was just pointing out lack of built-in DRM as a potential downfall for a mobile package system	23:29
tehdely	not my priorities; theirs	23:30
ZogG	tehdely, it doesnt work anyway	23:30
ZogG	like iTunes	23:30
ZogG	i need to upload music into itunes to upload to phone	23:30
tehdely	indeed	23:30
tehdely	it is destined for the dustbin of history	23:30
tehdely	(i hope)	23:30
* tehdely &		23:30
ZogG	it would be painful, but it checks if it's DRM on phone and not if i downloaded it from TPB	23:31
ZogG	do it even worse by macking my local music DRM official music on phone =)	23:31
ZogG	i jsut can't send it over phone to people	23:32
ZogG	ooooh, so bad, because i can just share with flash drives or P2P is i want - so what exactly is the poin?	23:32
ZogG	point	23:32
ZogG	tehdely, i hope it would die soo, i hope flash would be replaced, vendors would support linux and the patents war would stop being ridiculous. So people can be involved in developing new things and new technology =)	23:34
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