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| ajalkane | heymaster: what you mean with writing settings? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ajalkane | a configuration file? | 00:00 |
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| heymaster | ajalkane: seperate settings for harmattan and symbian | 00:01 |
| heymaster | say different qml files | 00:01 |
| ajalkane | ah... for example: | 00:02 |
| ajalkane | symbian { | 00:02 |
| ajalkane | ... do stuff | 00:02 |
| ajalkane | } | 00:02 |
| heymaster | and unix? | 00:02 |
| ajalkane | unix { | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | ... do stuff | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | } | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | for Harmattan (aka meego) you can use | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | !isEmpty(MEEGO_VERSION_MAJOR) { | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | } | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | That's how you can differentiate between desktop linux and MeeGo | 00:04 |
| heymaster | ajalkane: thanks. and which define i need to use for cpp code? | 00:04 |
| heymaster | i need to declear define in pro file between unix: {} ? | 00:05 |
| ajalkane | In C++? I think it's best to set-up defines for C++ in the .pro file | 00:05 |
| ajalkane | like: | 00:05 |
| ajalkane | DEFINES += "mydefine" | 00:05 |
| heymaster | ok | 00:05 |
| heymaster | thanks | 00:05 |
| ajalkane | np... hope to see your N9 app soon :) | 00:06 |
| heymaster | ajalkane: :) | 00:07 |
| jabis | slow ass vmdk creator | 00:08 |
| jabis | any good tutorials for capturing c++ signals in qml? | 00:11 |
| ajalkane | jabis: QtQuick UI in Qt docs | 00:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just in case anybody needs it for testing ow whatever: 1.3-openmode-kernel available | 00:26 |
| jabis | throw a link Doc - man I'd need another phone just for testing stuff -.- | 00:30 |
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| niwakame | I'll call it a day, sleep well! | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/1.3/openmode-kernel/ | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | identical patches as with 1.2-om-kernel | 01:02 |
| arcean_ | DocScrutinizer: thanks :) | 01:02 |
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| jabis | DocScrutinizer: where did you dig up the 1.3 src? :) | 01:22 |
| jabis | DocScrutinizer: or did you just mix & mash the packages | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jabis: no comment. Read my previous statements regarding the whole topic | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g the readme files in 1.1 and/or 1.2 om-kernel dirs | 01:58 |
| jabis | DocScrutinizer: I saw the diffs earlier, and have read the readme's, but the SDK hasn't been updated, which made me ask :) | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo has some nice guys, even at places where a lot of users never would expect them | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | or look at me, nobody would think I'm a nice guy ;-P | 02:07 |
| jabis | heh ^^ | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otoh a binary diff3 between original and om 1.2 kernel and om 1.3 kernel won't probably show anything surprising | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever, no source | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | or... "for source, you transfer 30 bucks processing fee and your addr for sending DVD to the following account: ..." | 02:10 |
| jabis | any news if/when the sources will be made available? my phone is flashed to 1.3 so I can't downgrade x) wifey decided it's upgrade tiem and OTA failed - again | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | please allow 2..4 months processing time | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply pester Nokia about the src, I think they are as fast and cheap as me to deliver that DVD | 02:13 |
| jabis | meh x) | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably faster and cheaper | 02:13 |
| jabis | a deb-src and user/password combo would been better x) | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, don't have | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | as already mentioned, I patched the kernel on binary level ;-P | 02:16 |
| rzr | pr1.3 @ n950 ? | 02:25 |
| rzr | pr1.3 @ n950 ? http://www.who.is.free.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=handset&#firmware | 02:26 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | rzr: your url doesn't seem to work | 02:32 |
| Sniper_swe | whats the easiest way to restore all app after fladhing pr1.3? | 02:46 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | installing them :p | 02:50 |
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| Sniper_swe | yeah but all at once or backing them up somehow?:) | 02:53 |
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| jabis | Sniper_swe: I already told you - as root "dpkg --get-selection > packagelist" for getting the packages -without quotes of course:) | 03:25 |
| jabis | sorry typoed --get-selections | 03:26 |
| jabis | and then edit the list to exclude any system packages | 03:27 |
| jabis | then when you've flashed | 03:27 |
| jabis | dpkg --set-selections < packagelist | 03:27 |
| jabis | followed by | 03:27 |
| jabis | apt-get -u dselect-upgrade | 03:27 |
| Sniper_swe | okay smart:) did the first part but put it in MyDocs:) | 03:29 |
| jabis | be sure to exclude the system stuff or you might run into a conflict :) | 03:31 |
| Sniper_swe | ok. put it on pc now. will edit file and then flash tomorrow:) 02 30 here | 03:33 |
| Sniper_swe | fyi i have spent whole day with this;p | 03:35 |
| Sniper_swe | shit there are alot of paxkages to remove | 03:35 |
| Sniper_swe | were can i find my " bookmarks" its not in /usr/share/applications as everything else | 03:44 |
| Sniper_swe | found them under /home/user/.local/share/applications | 03:47 |
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| rantom | So there's no way to file new bugs, easily, to Nokia about Harmattan? | 11:44 |
| rantom | Simple bug: no linebreak in Conversations when using Google Talk-account. (Actually, there's one in Swype-keyboard but that functions as Send, as do the two Send-buttons(!) in "normal" keyboard in Google Talk-conversation) | 11:46 |
| * ArkanoiD_ would be happy if old ones get fixed | 11:47 | |
| rantom | Couldn't find that bug, as of yet | 11:47 |
| * rantom too | 11:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer | who should fix any of those bugs? | 11:47 |
| rantom | Someone? | 11:48 |
| rantom | :) | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | someone has no employment at Nokia | 11:48 |
| rantom | So I take that as a no | 11:48 |
| rantom | Well, not a big deal anyways, just a tad inconvenient | 11:49 |
| ArkanoiD_ | if harmattan was really opensource there would be a hope even without nokia, but no | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might be able to contact nikia care about it | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia* | 11:49 |
| rantom | DocScrutinizer: I did | 11:50 |
| rantom | "Where did you get that app" | 11:50 |
| rantom | The built-in support for Google Talk in Conversations, good job... | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I know that missing CR issue from my old 6210 | 11:51 |
| rantom | CR? | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | so seems Nokia loves that bug | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | cr/nl | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whatever | 11:52 |
| rantom | I'm sorry but I don't know what that is | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf cr | 11:52 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what cr means... | 11:52 |
| rantom | :D | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~char 13 | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0x0A, 0x0D | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | colloq >enter> | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | <enter> | 11:53 |
| rantom | Oh and the best part, "You might want to contact Google for that"/etc :D | 11:55 |
| rantom | Yeah, I'll get right on that.. | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably you should use more precise vocabulary for your complaint, so they get the actual issue | 11:56 |
| rantom | I did | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wiki newline | 11:56 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{other uses|New Line (disambiguation)}} {{Howto|date=July 2011}} created with "gedit" and viewed with a hex editorBesides the text objects there are only EOL markerswith the hexadecimal value 0A.]] In computing, a 'newline'The origin of the older computer term "CRLF" - which redirects to this "Newline" article - or "Carriage Return [and] Line Feed", derives from standard manual ... | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wiki carriage return | 11:57 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_return (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Refimprove|date=January 2008}} 'Carriage return', often shortened to 'CR' or 'return', refers to a control character or mechanism used to reset a device's position to the beginning of a line of text. Originally, the term "carriage return" referred to a mechanism or lever on a typewriter. It was used after typing a line of text and caused the assembly holding the paper (the ... | 11:57 |
| rantom | DocScrutinizer: I'll clarify a bit: I contacted them in Finnish, I'm just reposting here in english | 11:57 |
| rantom | So no issue in that end, might've gotten few wrong words in here, so sorry about that | 11:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, 1.3 is definitely meant to be last update ever | 11:59 |
| rantom | Yeah, thought so too | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so odds are you have to live with whatever you got now | 11:59 |
| rantom | But overall my best bet would be to ignore it and I'm fine by that | 11:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless a pissed ex-Nokian leaks the *complete* source of HARM, that's probably it, yeah | 12:01 |
| rantom | Not going to wait for that, heh | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | since Nokia official never will do | 12:01 |
| rantom | Nah, not a big deal for me | 12:01 |
| rantom | I'm glad that I've got what I got. I'd be pissed if I'd be forced to use T9 | 12:02 |
| rantom | So missing a linebreak-button is not an issue | 12:02 |
| rantom | (for me) | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | you tried satuff like shift-enter, ctrl-m, etc? | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | stuff* | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | (probably no ctrl on that kbd ;-P) | 12:04 |
| rantom | I tried Shift+Enter, didn't work | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 12:04 |
| rantom | Yeah, no Control, heh :) | 12:04 |
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| rantom | _Might_ work with the N950 since it has it | 12:04 |
| rantom | Not keeping my hopes up though for that | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 6210 had text templates to insert into SMS. I copied a inbound SMS with a CR to templates and edited it so it only had the CR. Then I inserted it into SMS when I really needed it | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | those were the times | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 12:07 |
| rantom | Oh yeah, text templates | 12:07 |
| rantom | I liked the quick dial | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, missing feature | 12:08 |
| rantom | E.g. press a button 3, assign a person, press 3 again (holding, I think) and calling to that person | 12:08 |
| rantom | DocScrutinizer: Thanks for helping | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | there also been #02 .. #99 for directly calling that storage place | 12:09 |
| jabis | complete src of harm - that would be something x) | 12:09 |
| rantom | jabis: :D | 12:09 |
| jabis | I guess the guys working on nemo would appreciate x) | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess those will appreciate the least | 12:10 |
| phako | jabis: ever seen closed source source? | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | as they don't reinvent harm anyway | 12:10 |
| jabis | too much | 12:11 |
| jabis | well teh missing pieces are buried there - anyways nemo is all fucked up | 12:11 |
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| jabis | and not in a disrespectful way, just the reality of things currently | 12:12 |
| rantom | Good save | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeh, since nemo/mer turned from a cooperative into a antivendor port project, I guess that much | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least my take on it, extrapolating Nokia's general FU-policy | 12:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | can't see much support for mer/nemo the way it's been like 1.5 years ago | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | from NOK | 12:16 |
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| jabis | gah - these anti-histamin tablets makes one drowsy | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, which ones? | 12:18 |
| jabis | telfast or whatever these were - new tabs, because zyrtec and histex didn't just cut it this summer | 12:20 |
| jabis | router cutting the connection every nth minute - wth is happening again | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | zyrtec losing effect after one season, in my experience | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I'm asking for alternatives | 12:28 |
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| jabis | this telfast works ok, just a lot more drowsy than hte comparison brands | 12:32 |
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| niwakame | 30°C inside | 12:38 |
| niwakame | yeah.... | 12:38 |
| niwakame | Hi everybody :) | 12:38 |
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| Avengence | zrytec never did work well for me, just added side effects. theres a successor to it that is supossed to be better. I tried it not knowing it was related, but its crap. the only one thats any good is claritin. to be fully effective for me, I need the -D variant with pseduphedrine. impossible to get now, fuckers | 13:43 |
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| niwakame | what's the best way to access the PageStackWindow out of a child page? | 14:04 |
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| * Jaffa idly wonders how many ex-Nokians have copies of interesting source code on machines not controlled by Nokia. | 14:44 | |
| azeem | less than Nokia has lawyers, I'd say | 14:48 |
| niwakame | hrhr | 14:53 |
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| kimju | Jaffa, leaking such code would not do much good, it couldn't be used for anything and could even be "poisonous" | 15:03 |
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| Jaffa | azeem: Lawyers are only good for going after an individual, or someone hosting it. | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, only a thought experiment. | 15:05 |
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| alterego | I have some interesting source :P | 15:20 |
| alterego | I also have the PR1.3 image for N950, but I'm not releasing it :P | 15:20 |
| rigo | you shouldn't or do so via some service that anonymizes, unless you want really heavy trouble | 15:21 |
| niwakame | alterego: Then it's totally nonsense to tell us, except for the reason to boost your ego | 15:22 |
| rigo | I think at some point in time, the community has to split the viral things from the proprietary things and cut out the proprietary things and replace those | 15:22 |
| rigo | and I'm not sure in how far PR 1.3 image is affected by the GPL so that they have to release the source anyway | 15:23 |
| rigo | so there are interesting legal questions in all this. Shooting quick and un-reflected is doing more harm than good | 15:23 |
| azeem | rigo: they have to release the source to the GPL components I guess, same as for PR1.1 and PR1.2 | 15:28 |
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| rigo | azeem, not only, this has to be analyzed. Especially whether parts that are allegedly proprietary were infected by GPL | 15:29 |
| azeem | rigo: note that if Nokia owns the full copyright to GPL software, they can still dual-license it to themselves for proprietary use | 15:30 |
| azeem | and Qt is LGPL these days, no? | 15:30 |
| rigo | azeem, this is not the issue. The issue is whether they can prevent others from using stuff | 15:30 |
| azeem | the proprietary stuff? | 15:30 |
| alterego | niwakame: I was doing it to satisfy Jaffa's curiosity actually. | 15:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | And also note that if you have a mixed GPL and other licence binary - a contaminated one - this never, ever gives you a clean licence to use it. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | It means you have no valid licence. | 15:31 |
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| mgedmin | you don't need a licence to _use_ software; you need one to _distribute_ it | 15:31 |
| mgedmin | (so says the GPL) | 15:31 |
| rigo | SpeedEvil, you can pretty clearly distinguish and figure out. For investments, there are companies making such analysis | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | you have no licence to use it either, as GPL does not apply. | 15:31 |
| azeem | rigo: as long as they don't sell others the (proprietary) license, they prevent it indeed, modulo copyright fraud and lawsuits | 15:31 |
| niwakame | alterego: kk ;) | 15:33 |
| Avengence | practical example: I have code for several closed things that many people would love to have. I'll give it to any who want it. the only people that take it will never use it, only read it. anyone who actually could use it, doesn't want it near them | 15:42 |
| Avengence | i.e. MS DOS 6 full source, OS/2 v4 kernel and other sources (not full set), and AwrdsBIOS 4.51 full source for more than one board model | 15:43 |
| Avengence | the DOS code is a fun read just for the notes "this is almost definitely not correct", etc | 15:45 |
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| Avengence | the only guys I know that are doing any work with the sources are some russians trying to reimplement os/2 on anoter kernel, too pointless for anyone to care and they arent just using a modified vresio of the kernel they have source to | 15:46 |
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| Avengence | if the harmattan sources leak, I'll try to snatch up a copy as it I may use it as a reference or to make a personal build with few fixes, but not do some public project. I think most people would do the same | 15:47 |
| Avengence | unfortunately, I expect it to be like most other things, by the time it's leaked it's too old to be that useful. when the NT4 source got out, xp was already current so it's was just kinda "meh, that might be cool for the other platforms, but its not even w2k, what good is it now?" | 15:49 |
| niwakame | I wonder what would happen if you only make the patches to the source available, not the source itself | 15:51 |
| * vladest knows that russians...actually they are ukrainians | 15:51 | |
| Avengence | if yu make the patches available and not the source, you are not breaking any laws but you are indicating you have something you shouldn't, so it would be best to do so anonymously | 15:52 |
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| Avengence | the legality of patches is actually clearer than the question of what constitutes a single binary image for gpl purposes | 15:53 |
| niwakame | kk | 15:53 |
| * mgedmin has no time for a licence flame; copyright is about copying -- not use | 15:53 | |
| vladest | and still there is no answer - when we will get pr1.3 for n950? | 15:54 |
| mgedmin | (although some evil company lawyers claim that to use software you must copy it from disk to ram) | 15:54 |
| Avengence | I am on the side that a firmware image installed as a single item is a whole ansd unseprable unit, meaning itf it contains any gpl code then it must be fully gpl or NO GPL AT ALL | 15:54 |
| alterego | Avengence: then you're being a bit naive, a firmware image is no different to an installation disk. | 15:54 |
| Avengence | i'm very disappointed that there has not been a bigger issue of that in court. both because I would like some code to some shit (i.e. real bcm43 driver) and also I'd lije to see more attention paid to bsd for embedded devices where it's license is better suited anyway | 15:55 |
| alterego | In that, your view must extend to ISO images as well. | 15:55 |
| vladest | Avengence: so, if you installed an gpl'ed sw on your pc you have to open source whole apps on your pc? | 15:55 |
| Avengence | vladest: no, on the pc *I* combioned things as an end user. thats a vert claer situation | 15:55 |
| Avengence | the question is whern yuo distribute, what defines the bunds of the binary image the gpl applies to | 15:56 |
| alterego | I'm sure windows has GPL code in it. | 15:56 |
| Avengence | in the case of an iso image, thats a container, its like a zip, its not inherently tied. the end result is what matters, you have pieces that can be used separately | 15:56 |
| vladest | well, turning back to harmattan. the most interested part is UI | 15:57 |
| alterego | Avengence: just like a flashable filesystem image. They're the same thing. | 15:57 |
| Avengence | with a firmware image, you have a situation where its not only meant to be used together but often tightly linked such that you cant separate the components. for someting like the N9 tyou have a filesystem, but think of routers with an image thats the kernel with rootfs concated | 15:57 |
| Avengence | further, in that rootfs, almost all binaries are static linked into one big blob to save space | 15:58 |
| alterego | Avengence: no difference, it's still a filesystem image. Even if it's not a conventionally used one. | 15:58 |
| Avengence | the fact that the pieces are tied in an inseprable manner and are not independently usable is what makes the firmware image the same a single linked excutable in my opinion | 15:58 |
| alterego | The point is, people do, and legally, issue licensed material in a composite image which contains both GPL and non-GPL code. | 15:59 |
| Avengence | we have already decided the static vs dynamic linking boundaries for gpl and lgpl | 15:59 |
| Avengence | the firmware case is static linking. end of fucking story! | 15:59 |
| alterego | This is common, the GPL merely states if you use GPL licensed code in your products, and you make changes, you have to publish those changes. | 15:59 |
| alterego | Not true. | 15:59 |
| Avengence | TRUE | 16:00 |
| Avengence | just not properly set in courts | 16:00 |
| alterego | You're being naive if you think that archiving code has anything to do with executable linking. Which it clearly doesn't. | 16:00 |
| Avengence | IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ARCHIVING YOU IMBICILE! | 16:00 |
| Avengence | i already stated that! | 16:00 |
| Avengence | i'm talking about LINKED TOGETHER | 16:01 |
| alterego | The GPL and LGPL use linking as in executable linking using a linker. | 16:01 |
| alterego | You're talking about archiving and bundling together packages. | 16:01 |
| alterego | They're not the same thing. | 16:01 |
| Avengence | when the pieces actually get linked and then built into an image that is then injected into another binary as a data section, which is copied into ram and used, it is clearly part of the binary that carries it | 16:01 |
| alterego | And don't call me an imbicile. | 16:01 |
| alterego | And all caps is rude too .. | 16:01 |
| azeem | Avengence: are you talking about busybox, or something more elaborate? | 16:02 |
| Avengence | I'LL BE RUDE IF I WANT. SUCK MY DICK, BITCH! | 16:02 |
| alterego | -_- | 16:02 |
| Avengence | azeem: busybox is a starting example | 16:02 |
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| Avengence | busybox is gpl, you cant go stick a non-gpl thing in busybox without breaking the license | 16:02 |
| azeem | right, I'd be surprised if Nokia did that, though | 16:03 |
| niwakame | wasn't there a problem with netgear, regarding busybox? | 16:03 |
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| azeem | the busybox people are known to hunt gpl-violations after you | 16:03 |
| Avengence | also, to be clear, right at the moment I am NOT talkinbg about nokia's gpl situation. they use afilesystem and many components | 16:03 |
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| Avengence | i'm talking about devices that use a single image, that in some cases doesnt even pretend to have a filesystem but in other the notion of one is just in memory. in flash, its all one binary blob, inseprable without making it non-functional | 16:04 |
| Avengence | the linker used during comilation takes various code and data segments and glues them together in a way that allows them to work. separated they cant work. if you go do the same damn think but call the tool something other than a linker, it doesnt change what you just did. that firmware packer or whtever just glued together code and data segments to make something useful | 16:07 |
| dm8tbr | Avengence: regardless of the actual argument, tame your language. thanks. | 16:08 |
| Avengence | also, any notion that the current situation is legal just because companies are getting away with it is incorrect. as is often the case, it takes a long time for a case to come up in the courts that renders a useful decision, prior to that its speculation and the compoanies have the monetary advantage | 16:08 |
| Avengence | dm8tbr: if you can't take the language, go sit in the kid's corner | 16:09 |
| flux | well, I'm pretty sure most computers that use busybox won't boot if you remove it from them.. | 16:09 |
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| *** Avengence was kicked by dm8tbr (have a nice remaining life) | 16:09 | |
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| *** dm8tbr sets mode: +b *!*avengence@*.gprs.tmcz.cz | 16:09 | |
| *** Avengence was kicked by dm8tbr (autorejoin detected) | 16:09 | |
| alterego | tbf, the conversation was interesting, but it hurtled off topic and he was being annoyingly aggressive. | 16:10 |
| niwakame | just out of nothing :/ | 16:10 |
| dm8tbr | I didn't even read the actual discussion | 16:11 |
| alterego | dm8tbr: well, you did good. I'd say just ban him for a couple of hours. | 16:11 |
| dm8tbr | his language was not OK. I told him. He reacted in a way that made it clear he didn't understand. topic closed. :) | 16:11 |
| alterego | :) | 16:11 |
| dm8tbr | he seems to think repeating profanities in privmsg will accomplish something. (it will keep him on the +b list, but that's beside the point) | 16:13 |
| alterego | otoh, arguing semantics gets really boring quite quickly. And isn't particularly productive for anyone .. | 16:13 |
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| alterego | dm8tbr: definitely not the way to talk to a guy that just banned you .. | 16:14 |
| alterego | Clearly he doesn't care too much for being allowed back in. | 16:14 |
| alterego | I'd increase the ban to two days :) | 16:14 |
| alterego | Or maybe a day for every message he sends you which isn't an apology ;) | 16:14 |
| dm8tbr | it will be 'whenever I remember to check the +b list' | 16:15 |
| dm8tbr | feel free to hilight/privmsg me when something similar arises. | 16:15 |
| *** dm8tbr sets mode: -o dm8tbr | 16:15 | |
| dm8tbr | nothing to see here! move along! it was just a reflection off of a weather baloon. | 16:15 |
| alterego | lol | 16:16 |
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| vladest | alterego: when you planning to start delivering pr1.3 for n950? ;) | 16:18 |
| niwakame | dm8tbr: ty | 16:19 |
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| * niwakame just did an unintentional highlight | 16:20 | |
| dm8tbr | ;) | 16:20 |
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| alterego | vladest: you're better off asking an actual Nokian that is in that area of things. | 16:25 |
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| alterego | Nokia are still giving out N950's and N9s for Qt 5 development. So I'm guessing they must still be planning on doing the release at some point. | 16:25 |
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| alterego | I think PR1.4 is unlikely now, though it was on the road map when I left the project myself. | 16:26 |
| vladest | alterego: who is actual Nokians here? | 16:27 |
| alterego | I didn't say here ;) | 16:27 |
| alterego | Maybe someone should email them and ask about N950 support ;) | 16:28 |
| vladest | use private msg :) | 16:28 |
| alterego | I tell you what, I'll ask on twitter :P | 16:28 |
| * vladest in despair..dropped my n950 and part of the screen is broken, PoM N9 gift arriving several months yet | 16:29 | |
| alterego | Oh no :( | 16:29 |
| vladest | Social app on e7 rebooted the phone 8-) | 16:30 |
| vladest | I need pr1.3 to test my CarVCR app | 16:30 |
| vladest | cause I have complains that device is overheatng after hours of video recording...hope 1.3 fixed that | 16:31 |
| dm8tbr | vladest: black spot on the screen? went away after 2 months for me at least. | 16:32 |
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| vladest | dm8tbr: yeah...black spots connecting to lines thru the screen | 16:33 |
| vladest | dm8tbr: you think, its selfcure screen? wow | 16:33 |
| alterego | lol | 16:33 |
| vladest | hope it will gone too | 16:33 |
| dm8tbr | I only so far know of this miracle happening to me. | 16:34 |
| dm8tbr | no other confirmed events | 16:34 |
| rigo | alterego, just look at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLInProprietarySystem | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Of particular interest would be a build of the Twitter app (for example) which includes fixes put into the source tree after PR1.3 went to Release :-( | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | rigo: That FAQ may have been updated for GPLv3, and it doesn't specify what "incorporate" is. It goes on to talk about "separate programs" | 16:35 |
| alterego | rigo: /me agrees with Jaffa | 16:36 |
| alterego | They don't explain what "closed system" is | 16:36 |
| rigo | Jaffa, this was exactly the dispute. It burns down to what is a self contained program. | 16:36 |
| rigo | and I just want to give you evidence that this question is open. And that there are believes | 16:37 |
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| alterego | I wonder what Stallman would think about a closed filesystem with GPL components on it in a proprietary installation :) | 16:37 |
| rigo | and that there is a difference between LGPL and GPL | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | rigo: And it's clear what Nokia's lawyers believe are their responsibilities with the GPLv2 components used in all versions of Maemo. And any other embedded system using Linux which has closed source components but is upgradable | 16:38 |
| alterego | rigo: of course there is a difference, but the discussion earlier was basically saying regardless of LGPL and GPL, it's illegal to create an image which combines these components with closed components. | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | Whereas alterego's argument was that a filesystem image is no different to a zip file, CD or floppy disk. | 16:39 |
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| Jaffa | Hell, an ISO *is* a filesystem image. | 16:39 |
| Jaffa | So if this was an argument which held water, no GPL-incompatible software could be included in a Linux distro. | 16:39 |
| rigo | We can't decide the question here, because we lack information. But in case somebody is closing down and others want to continue, it may be worthwhile to explore certain path | 16:39 |
| rigo | Jaffa, they were talking past each other. Only the fact that something is just baked together in a filesystem image is probably not creating sufficient proximity | 16:40 |
| rigo | having a system tied very close so that the proprietary components are not mere applications may have a different result | 16:41 |
| rigo | alterego was talking about the first, Avengence was talking about the second | 16:42 |
| Jaffa | If only he could give an example of what he was talking about, then, rather than abstract terms (and also seemed to be saying something about taking the firmware image as a data segment and putting that in a proprietary/GPL program (e.g. a flasher or self-extracting zip?)) | 16:43 |
| rigo | again, all this will turn into the center of attention only, if there is a community that wants to continue | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | Not really. There's a pattern for CSSU for Fremantle, with Open Mode or Inception, that can be done for Harmattan. But fewer of the interesting packages are open source on Harmattan (e.g. the buggy apps) | 16:44 |
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| Jaffa | If someone had the source to those and distributed enhancements/collaborated anonymously, they're not going to care about GPL licensing when they don't care about (c) | 16:45 |
| rigo | but this will necessarily remain a marginal geek thing nobody cares about (if sane) Only starting a certain scale, one has to care | 16:46 |
| rigo | Jaffa, there is no doubt that you can run proprietary applications on a harmattan system | 16:47 |
| rigo | the question is rather if the system itself can have blind spots | 16:47 |
| rigo | I think it can, but the question is tricky and at the making, the devs had to take good care not to trespass certain lines. As I don't believe in devs taking care of lines, I believe that if searched with due diligence, we can shade some light on some of the blind spots (not all) | 16:49 |
| rigo | but this is a lot of effort and should only be done if nokia abandons completely (I don't see that happening yet) and the only action remains to block the community. In this case, there is a certain legitimacy in starting to look closer into what can be opened up with the tin-opener | 16:51 |
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| azeem | rigo: I would assume that things like the Twitter and Facebook apps cannot be opened by Nokia even if they would like due to NDAs | 17:00 |
| azeem | same might be the case for Drive | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | azeem: Facebook, maybe, since the account plugin accesses contact info which isn't publicly available via its APIs. Twitter, can't see why. But it costs money to open, and Nokia's default became "closed UI to differentiate" | 17:04 |
| azeem | yeah | 17:04 |
| Jaffa | Unfortunately, Modest on Fremantle only got good after the patches for bottom-posting and attribution lines got merged in the CSSU. | 17:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | life is just unfair | 17:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | most unlogic things are more profitable | 17:05 |
| Jaffa | Since that's unlikely to happen for Harmattan, there's no decent email client available | 17:05 |
| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: eh? | 17:05 |
| alterego | I kind of doubt Nokia would actually do something if someone was to drop all of the Harmattan sources. | 17:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw cn't those apps from freemantle be ported to harm btw | 17:06 |
| alterego | Unless they got screwed by someone claiming IP infringement. | 17:06 |
| alterego | Then they'd have a serious sandy vag | 17:06 |
| azeem | ZogG_laptop: they are GTK | 17:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: about opening source cost money thing and so on... | 17:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | azeem: surely you need to re-write gui to make harmattan like | 17:07 |
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| azeem | I guess they could be ported, but would look fugly without lots of themeing and hog resources | 17:07 |
| azeem | ZogG_laptop: ok, but that's not porting | 17:07 |
| azeem | well, splitting hairs now maybe | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dang, missed an opportunity for a kickban :-P | 17:08 |
| Jaffa | alterego: My gut agrees, though of course one wouldn't endorse it. | 17:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | azeem: depends if it's only UI app or whole thing | 17:08 |
| alterego | Indeed | 17:08 |
| alterego | Jaffa: tbh, do you even think Nokia would notice? ;) | 17:08 |
| rigo | so no decent email client in view for N9? | 17:08 |
| alterego | Or anyone else for that matter :) | 17:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | azeem: some apps have core without UI and UI as a layer, and there are apps where it is more mixed | 17:08 |
| Jaffa | However, I'd be surprised (if the Harmattan ex-Nokians really used an N9 as their main device) if we didn't see a code drop and some unofficial tweaked binaries/packages/sources within the next year | 17:09 |
| alterego | Unfortunately, Twitter is one of the few things I don't have the source for. | 17:09 |
| alterego | Well, one can hope | 17:09 |
| rigo | alterego, there is a nice app for status-net that can be extended to talk to the twitter API | 17:09 |
| Jaffa | However, if they're all using Android devices, WP[78] or iOS, they've no incentive to try and kickstart an underground movement in improvements. | 17:09 |
| Jaffa | alterego: leinir might | 17:10 |
| azeem | the twitter app looks miles ahead of status.net though | 17:10 |
| rigo | Jaffa, I'm using this exactly because I don't want to use android for various reasons, one being privacy | 17:10 |
| alterego | Jaffa: in my past experience, most ex-Nokians around this community end up pushing Mer, or B2G, etc. | 17:10 |
| rigo | azeem: sure, but I think it is a solid basis. AND the twitter app can't do status.net or identi.ca. Mustard on android did both pretty well | 17:13 |
| rigo | so if twitter goes commercial, there will be a quest for other options | 17:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: i think frals may have code for twitter =) | 17:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: but why do you tell you have sources? | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Yeah. I like to hack on things I can use day-to-day too. There's a tipping point of usability :-( | 17:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | it just make it more complicated to leak them and make us feel jealous | 17:14 |
| frals | Jaffa: it would be quite easy to trace back code drops way to close to the source of the leak for it to be worth it, I gather... | 17:15 |
| rigo | have to go, cu later | 17:16 |
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| Jaffa | frals: Oh, really? Somehow watermarked? Or just very tightly controlled access? | 17:16 |
| frals | theres only x person having access now, and if any recent versions leaked.. well ;) | 17:16 |
| * Jaffa also wonders about those Meltemi source repositories deleted ahead of shutdown announcement. Surely someone had a checkout... | 17:16 | |
| Jaffa | frals: g'point | 17:17 |
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| ZogG_laptop | frals: recent version? i think even 1.1 would be good enuf | 17:17 |
| frals | anyway, at least the apps related to third parties are probably not closed due to nokia wanting to differentiate but due to contracts with the third parties | 17:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | and everythink like 1.2 and 1.3 can be re-written | 17:17 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: why not? And Jaffa asked :P | 17:17 |
| frals | ZogG_laptop: at least for the applications ive been involved in, the changes are huge vs old versions | 17:18 |
| alterego | I didn't have access to Meltemi unfortunately, I have no idea what went on there :) | 17:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: why not what? to say? exactly why would make just jelaous ? | 17:18 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: well, I don't have Twitter sources ;) | 17:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: so you are nokia or you got it your ways? | 17:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: i hope you do the right thing | 17:19 |
| sigmaorion | hi there!!! | 17:19 |
| alterego | I had a sub-contract which was for Harmattan maintenance until PR1.3 | 17:19 |
| sigmaorion | anybody here got PR1.3 OTA? | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | sigmaorion: Yes. | 17:19 |
| alterego | sigmaorion: my N9 updated yesterday. | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | Mine updated on Tuesday | 17:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: most people | 17:19 |
| sigmaorion | Jaffa, what was your previous firmware? | 17:20 |
| alterego | 1.2? :) | 17:20 |
| azeem | sigmaorion: maybe state your problem? | 17:20 |
| alterego | I've really missed having external monitor. | 17:20 |
| sigmaorion | yeap, hehe, I mean, what flavor? | 17:20 |
| sigmaorion | branded, debranded? | 17:20 |
| sigmaorion | from what area? | 17:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: i don't think you would leak it, but keep the copy safe | 17:20 |
| sigmaorion | azeem, no problema, actually, just wainting for my update, but nothing yet... | 17:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: although you saying it publicly may make you warn to delete it | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | sigmaorion: PR1.2 as alterego said | 17:21 |
| Tronic | What version control system does Nokia use? | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | sigmaorion: Oh, global variant I think | 17:21 |
| azeem | sigmaorion: you can flash it yourself if you can't wait | 17:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: flash it than | 17:21 |
| Tronic | If CVS or SVN, history is lost :/ | 17:21 |
| Tronic | Unless someone uses git-svn anyway, like I always do on projects still using SVN. | 17:22 |
| Tronic | (git-svn keeps full revision history locally, in a git repository, but speaks SVN to the server) | 17:22 |
| alterego | Tronic: they used git and svn mostly for what I was involved with. | 17:22 |
| sigmaorion | Jaffa, azeem, ZogG_laptop, yeap, I think I'm gonna flash, but I flashed with global variant 1.2 last time, so I thought I would get 1.3 right away this time... | 17:23 |
| alterego | You have to understand that most of Maemo/MeeGo was developed by open-source enthusiasts inside Nokia. So most of the stuff was basically what you and I would use. | 17:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: maybe you didn't as i used ota first day and i also flashed last time with 001 global | 17:24 |
| Tronic | Getting sources to Maps and Drive would be quite crucial for long term support. | 17:24 |
| Tronic | Most other applications could be rewritten from scratch but navigation is too difficult for the community to accomplish. | 17:24 |
| alterego | I have Maps *cough* | 17:24 |
| Tronic | Good :) | 17:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: we got your point | 17:25 |
| alterego | But Maps is Nokia IP I believe, they'd probably be more pissed if people started modding that. | 17:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: but you would do nothing | 17:25 |
| sigmaorion | ZogG_laptop, I'm pretty sure I did!! In fact I did that because I didn't get PR1.2 before, so I flashed my phone... | 17:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: so what is the point to repeat it all over again =) | 17:25 |
| azeem | ZogG_laptop: alterego just volunteered to do Maps long term support | 17:25 |
| Tronic | alterego: Doesn't that apply to every other piece of the software, too? | 17:26 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: just to make you sandy? :P | 17:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think google maps is better =P | 17:26 |
| azeem | Tronic: IP in the sense that they use it elsewhere as well | 17:26 |
| sigmaorion | anyway... are there any release notes for PR1.3 with a list of the goodies!? I couldn't find it! | 17:26 |
| azeem | I guess | 17:26 |
| azeem | there are no goodies, just bug fixes | 17:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | azeem: you lost his point saying he would do nothing about that. he is just pissing off us for lols =\ | 17:27 |
| azeem | sigmaorion: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1230913&postcount=1 | 17:27 |
| sigmaorion | azeem, thanks a lot! | 17:27 |
| Jaffa | Tronic: Email too. Good mobile email clients are hard; and there's a lot of effort to get to a level which is decent until you can start fixing things like quoting styles, attribution etc. | 17:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: few changes most bugfixes, no realchange log as even team members do not know if their patches included ( saw on TMO ex dev post) | 17:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: i would say the most important is browser | 17:28 |
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| ZogG_laptop | and bug fixes, baterry life | 17:28 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: you're right, I probably wont do anything with them, except maybe use them to help others understand how they work internally. | 17:28 |
| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: Browsers are big & hard, but there are already alternatives (e.g. Firefox) | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh... | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | as there is another email app ported btw | 17:29 |
| * SpeedEvil is surprised! | 17:29 | |
| alterego | It's up to anyone else to take the initiative. | 17:29 |
| * SpeedEvil sees flash in the app-store. | 17:29 | |
| SpeedEvil | (on n950) | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | but browser is hard thing to do or write from scratch imho | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: it's there for a long time | 17:29 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: not in QML I don't think, and not the N9 browser, that thing could probably be implemented in QML in a day ;) | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: :) | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: if you have source you would know most things are MTF, or i am wrong? | 17:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: it doesn work on native browser btw | 17:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: only firefox | 17:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 17:30 |
| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: A decent finger friendly email app? Ooh, where? | 17:30 |
| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: Browser is *relatively* easy if wrapping up QtWebKit (although there's odd behaviour of select lists using QtWebKit compared with Browser) | 17:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: not really finger friendly but as i saw people working on gui with qml or MohammadAG with MTF it's matter of effort and little time to make it | 17:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: http://www.n9fanclub.com/2012/05/trojita-030-imap-email-client-technical.html | 17:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | that is email app | 17:32 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: without counting, I can't tell you, you're probably right, but a lot of things are in QML, anyway, I'm just saying implementing a browser with the same feature set as the N9 browser in QML wouldn't be hard at all and wouldn't take very long. | 17:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think someone from here took it from the point last dev stoped it | 17:32 |
| alterego | Just embed QtWebKit and make a menu and location bar and you're set. | 17:33 |
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| alterego | I seriously think the N9 browser is the least interesting part of Harmattan. | 17:33 |
| alterego | Yet I probably use it the most .. | 17:33 |
| alterego | I mean interesting from a technical perspective. | 17:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: tabs, flash, plugins, addons are really hard thing imho, otherwise IE6 would be enuf =) | 17:34 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: all things that the inbuilt browser doesn't have ;) But with an open alternative, we could build on, those things at least could be implemented over time. | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: It's rZr who seems to be carrying Trojita on http://gitorious.org/+harmattan/trojita/trojita-harmattan | 17:34 |
| frals | alterego: guess you havent seen all the cases grob handle... ;) | 17:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | but all i need is tabs and sync and logical UI | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | Grob is QML | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | (N9 stock browser's called grob) | 17:35 |
| alterego | I don't know how webkit off hand uses plugins, but we have a flash plugin for the N9, so why couldn't we get that to work with QtWebkit? | 17:35 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: I suspected as much. | 17:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: i think it's someone else, lemme check it was on tmo or fmc | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | alterego: How? :p | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | (I just stringed the binary once, has a lot of QML code) | 17:36 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: if you read the beginning of that sentence you'd see I don't know ;) | 17:36 |
| alterego | I remember reading a bit in the webkit APIs about plugins, if we wrote our own QML browser I'm sure it could be done. | 17:36 |
| trx | lol "grob" means grave on serbian | 17:36 |
| kevin_b | Because grob use QtWebKit2 which cannot use NPAPI plugin? | 17:36 |
| trx | not a good name :) | 17:36 |
| alterego | kevin_b: Well, not aware of that soo .. ;) | 17:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | trx: in russian too | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG | What does fenix mean? | 17:36 |
| kevin_b | so we need a new flash plugin for any WebKit2 app | 17:36 |
| alterego | Okay | 17:37 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Name of the mail app, IIRC | 17:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: bird? | 17:37 |
| Jaffa | Oh, I see | 17:37 |
| trx | yeahm bird :) | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | That's pheonix :p | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa :p | 17:37 |
| alterego | kevin_b: what about implementing a NPAPI plugin adapter for Webkit 2? | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | Phoenix even* | 17:37 |
| kevin_b | :D | 17:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: it was suggested here to rename to Ash | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | Or just drop flash | 17:37 |
| trx | but thats "Feniks" | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | Ash is the default shell :P | 17:38 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: I'm not bothered about flash, but this is an example of a technical issue which I think wouldn't be too hard to resolve in a CSSU | 17:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | trx: or Феникс =) | 17:38 |
| trx | yeah :) | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | alterego: A cssu is possible on harmattan | 17:38 |
| alterego | And the browser lacks a lot of things. | 17:38 |
| alterego | Flash is just one of these things. | 17:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: alterego has source of PR1.3 =P | 17:38 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: indeed, with open-mode sure. | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | Just like inception adds a com.nokia.maemo/local domain we'd a org.maemo.cssu domain | 17:39 |
| alterego | I think I'd be more interested in getting harmattan running on Mer | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | alterego: No, normal argis system | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | Aegis | 17:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: but most parts are closed, way more than maemo5 imho | 17:39 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: oh sure yeah. Forgot about inception | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | We just need a higher domain officially added by Nokia | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | alterego: I'm using it as an example | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | We shouldn't use inception for a cssu | 17:40 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Or the system *thinks* had been officially added by Nokia; cos no Nokian's going to be left to add it | 17:40 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it's okay, I understand your example ;) | 17:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: aegis free | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | Or hacks, we need an official support package from Nokia | 17:40 |
| alterego | I actually managed to get Nokia Maps semi working under Nemo, | 17:40 |
| alterego | That was fun | 17:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: now you can really improve Nemo =P | 17:41 |
| ArkanoiD_ | abbra told me some people managed to get frankenstein update for n950 with n9 pr1.3, is there a reliable instruction for that? | 17:41 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: unfortunately I have my own roadmap ;) So I'm only really interested in Harmattan and Nemo as a informative resource ;) | 17:42 |
| alterego | It's unlikely I'll be doing anything practically for Harmattan or Nemo except as a side-effect of my current projects. | 17:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: ok. personal or work projects? | 17:42 |
| alterego | ZogG_laptop: both | 17:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: than leak it =P | 17:43 |
| azeem | or somebody leak alterego's private adress ;) | 17:43 |
| alterego | Nothing to leak really, I'm working with some people on developing an activity based computing platform on top of Mer. | 17:43 |
| alterego | For handset and tablet usage mainly at the moment. | 17:43 |
| alterego | lol | 17:43 |
| alterego | How did you know my private address is my password for everything?!? | 17:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: i'm talking about harmattan source | 17:44 |
| alterego | Oh, well, no :P | 17:44 |
| alterego | I'd rather people made good open alternatives like MohammadAG has done in the past to better other projects like Nemo. Than hack fixes together for closed proprietary bits in Harmattan. | 17:45 |
| arcean | ArkanoiD_: not yet, but possible | 17:45 |
| arcean | and quiet simple TBH :) | 17:45 |
| arcean | s/quiet/quite | 17:46 |
| * MohammadAG needs to understand the d private pointer and ClassNamePrivate concepts | 17:46 | |
| alterego | The resources as far as Harmattan are concerned that I have, will only be used as a reference tool for when documentation isn't good enough for possible hacks and work-arounds. | 17:46 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: opaque instances of data for a class that are only available to the source files, so when you distribute your headers you don't give away internal APIs. | 17:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: than start with example how to use sigon-oauth2 plugin for accounts and integrate with app =) | 17:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | no normal examples or documentation | 17:47 |
| alterego | Not sure I have that either ;) | 17:48 |
| alterego | I'd have to look. | 17:48 |
| alterego | And it's on a different machine than the one I'm infront of now ;) | 17:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | it is part of twitter and i think facebook | 17:48 |
| alterego | Yes, twitter, facebook, maps, ... | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG_laptop: You shouldn't use that | 17:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | alterego: it would be helpful | 17:48 |
| alterego | Quite a few apps iirc | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | Afaik it isn't meant to be used | 17:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: why not? | 17:49 |
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| MohammadAG | In fact afaik usage should be denied by aegis | 17:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: what do you mean it is used in twitter | 17:49 |
| MohammadAG | Twitter is Nokia's | 17:49 |
| MohammadAG | It isn't meant to be used by 3rd parties | 17:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i need to make my own account not the twitter's one, i just need example on how | 17:49 |
| MohammadAG | Oh, don't lots of apps do that? | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | Wazapp, web2sms etc | 17:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: no, as they use plain pass and user | 17:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | that you can get from account | 17:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | i do that too | 17:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | but token is not saved there | 17:50 |
| azeem | the status.net app doesn't hook into accounts e.g. | 17:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | you need to integrate request in plugin and use it from in app thru signon thing | 17:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: people or use plain password in accounts or they use qoauth | 17:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | qoauth is nice but it's easier to use something native which is already on phone and not bring new duplicate libs | 17:52 |
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| MohammadAG | I don't get how creating an account would help with not using OAuth | 17:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i'd use signon for that than extrenal lib | 17:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | with sigon i can make account in accounts with setting their and it's native way | 17:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | you can add webupload plugin wih actually has example with half code for dropbox | 17:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | wich is after all afaik use account plugin | 17:55 |
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| ZogG_laptop | beford released his last.fm account for scrobbler btw | 17:56 |
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| ZogG_laptop | ~ping | 18:15 |
| infobot | ~pong | 18:15 |
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| azeem | euh, http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2012/07/05/battery-drain-on-n9-caused-by-a-combination-of-battery-icon-tracker-and-smartsearch | 18:31 |
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| petteri | azeem: thanks for the link | 19:20 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | there's been 135 qr code downloads of inception 0.2 | 19:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that doesn't count direct downloads from the site | 19:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but i don't feel like getting on my server and tabulating that | 19:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://bitly.com/HLbWzL+ the us, germany, and finland seem to make up a remarkable chunk of the downloads | 19:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | weird that there's more us downloads than any other one location | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | given the lack of distribution here | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though some of those clicks might be me :p | 19:51 |
| macmaN | itsnotabigtruck: ok. whats the conclusion? | 19:55 |
| macmaN | nice use of qr-code i discovered lately was at a conference when the presenter told us to scan his contact card off the big screen | 19:56 |
| macmaN | today also my girl used one to get a navigation location directly into n9 | 19:56 |
| macmaN | but qr codes for me have been very rare.. | 19:56 |
| macmaN | maybe i dont hang around smart people enough | 19:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | they are on every ad today | 19:57 |
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| ZogG_laptop | noone just pay attention as those are not really useful to open facebook fan pages of some deodorant to make "like" | 19:57 |
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| niwakame|afk | "I've just liked <insert deodorant brand name here>, because it really makes the stench go away!" | 20:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 20:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | macmaN: well, they're good for getting a url from a pc to a phone | 20:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is exactly what i'm using them for | 20:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, the advert stuff is totally useless | 20:38 |
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| niwakame|afk | :) | 20:46 |
| niwakame|afk | I need more ventilators here | 20:48 |
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| tehdely | dang... no ROW EMMC files available yet | 21:39 |
| tehdely | guess i'll have to flash with the northern europe one | 21:39 |
| tehdely | woo hoo swedish maps :> | 21:39 |
| niwakame|afk | haha, this is nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL | 21:41 |
| niwakame|afk | but I like this one more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware#License | 21:42 |
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| tehdely | hmm | 22:33 |
| tehdely | after reflashing with pr1.3 and enabling developer mode | 22:33 |
| tehdely | i can't seem to ssh into the device | 22:33 |
| tehdely | it's prompting for a password, even though i put my ssh key in there | 22:33 |
| tehdely | that's... annoying | 22:33 |
| jonni | and you are trying to login as developer and not root | 22:35 |
| tehdely | oh never mind | 22:35 |
| tehdely | had to passwd -u user | 22:35 |
| tehdely | i am a sysadmin, i should have known that ;) | 22:36 |
| tehdely | interestingly, developer user has no home dir | 22:36 |
| tehdely | i remember this problem on pr1.2 as well | 22:36 |
| jonni | it was a feature | 22:36 |
| tehdely | did they ever fix the issues with the developer apt repository | 22:38 |
| jonni | there has never been any issues :) | 22:38 |
| tehdely | i seem to remember something to do with the signature of the repository | 22:38 |
| tehdely | and that is why i could never leave it enabled as an apt source | 22:38 |
| jonni | you mean the sdk repository which was never meant to be used in N9. | 22:39 |
| tehdely | yes, that one | 22:39 |
| jonni | as it was sdk only. so nothing to be fixed. | 22:39 |
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| jonni | and developers home dir is /home/developer, so it deas have a home dir. | 22:41 |
| tehdely | that directory does not exist on my phone | 22:41 |
| tehdely | i agree that that is developer's home dir | 22:41 |
| tehdely | what use is the 'developer' user anyway | 22:41 |
| tehdely | what is it for | 22:41 |
| jonni | then your flash or upgrade has failed somehow, or you havent runned the sdk connectivity tool | 22:42 |
| tehdely | the latter | 22:42 |
| jonni | its just an alias to user-user, as it has the same uid. | 22:42 |
| tehdely | thank you, you are answering my questions almost as quickly as i'm cooking em up | 22:43 |
| jonni | is you login as developer you end up in develsh and if you login with user you end up in /bin/sh, so developer user has more capas by default. | 22:43 |
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| sigmaorion | Jaffa, I was asking earlier for the OTA update that wasn't coming to my phone... I just got the update notification :) | 23:25 |
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| vladest | hmm. still license wars | 23:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: ping | 23:36 |
| Kozzi | rzr: ping | 23:44 |
| rzr | pong ! game over , please insert coin | 23:45 |
| Kozzi | rzr: you ported rtmpdump to harmattan right ? | 23:45 |
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| rzr | i just rebuilt it afaik | 23:46 |
| rzr | why | 23:46 |
| Kozzi | wonder if this version supports rtmpe | 23:46 |
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| rzr | e like encryption ? | 23:50 |
| Kozzi | to overrides protocols | 23:50 |
| Kozzi | rtmpt, rtmp, rtmpe.. etc | 23:50 |
| Elleo | 8 | 23:55 |
| Elleo | oops | 23:55 |
| Kozzi | anyone here expert in sniffing rtmp urls ? | 23:56 |
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