| itsnotabigtruck2 | smart cards are a cool piece of technology, why did the software side of things have to end up becoming such a PoS | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also they generally don't have a standardized card edge at all, which is also totally ridiculous | 00:00 |
| Avengence | because the fucking french cant even decide if 1 is logical high or low, so which is 1 and which is 0 is up in the air | 00:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | imagine if any crypto smart card was interchangeable and operating systems/applications had awesome smart card support | 00:01 |
| Avengence | you gotta just figure that out first to even start the rest of the interaction with the card | 00:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | everybody would have super-tough two factor authentication for all their stuff | 00:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | bank accounts, computer accounts, etc. | 00:01 |
| rzr | <Avengence> oh damn am I glad to say I'm not a part of that for quite a long time now. smartcards are a pita becausae of FRENCH. and everything elsse around them ends up being broken/crappy | 00:01 |
| Avengence | theres always more than one way to do anything, and a reader has to support them ALL or you have a crappy reader that only works with some cards | 00:01 |
| rzr | you can punch me I am one of them | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 00:02 |
| Avengence | finally get past funky baud rates, weird voltages, wahts a 1 and 0, how you do error correction, are you using transaction or packets and how long, wahts your mode, dont tell me you want T=1 instead of T=0 now... | 00:03 |
| jabis | it would be cool to see what the updater does below the "updating n%" -.- | 00:03 |
| jabis | 21.30 - 24.00 still on 90% | 00:04 |
| Avengence | after all that, then you have to speak to the thing then the command set is totally different on every card | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: i thought that stuff is mostly settled though, the card<->reader side of things isn't nearly as bad as the os/app<->card side | 00:04 |
| Avengence | to make it worse, almost all cards now are "javacards" (fucking java GO AWAY) | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the only standardized card edges are for government applications on cards that aren't available for public purchase | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | (PIV, IAS, etc.) | 00:05 |
| Avengence | so you have some dozens of card models with various features and then a custom java applet is loaded that gives a personality, basically defines the command set. that applet can be custom or you can pick one the card vendor examples | 00:05 |
| Avengence | theres thousand of them adn they all use different commands. and they all have different bugs. and the dont always run the same on different revision of the cards | 00:06 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 00:06 | |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck2: CAC/PIV was my world for a couple years | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also smart card support on linux makes the windows side look awesome | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I was just wondering about NFC support on the nexus 7, and its exposure | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | most commercial cards have inferior/no official linux drivers (pkcs#11 etc.), and these days the opensc project (generic open source pkcs#11) is only interested in supporting government cards | 00:07 |
| Lava_Croft | im just happy i dont have to use my nexus7 as a real mobile device | 00:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, seems it's done | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and in any case, no standardized card edge = writing a comprehensive smart card driver is an impossible task | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: yay | 00:08 |
| Avengence | another real bad part of smartcards is just dealing with the companies that make them. theres only 3 and they are all awful. I wont name a name for the one I dealt with most | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | should be a simple task of flashing the main image then | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | aren't there a lot more? | 00:08 |
| * SpeedEvil has been idly wondering about a teeny RFID capsule inserted under the skin. | 00:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | I seem to spend 4 mins a day searching for keys | 00:09 |
| Avengence | the deal was the engineers are in frane and only speak french. therefore, you cannot communicate with them. as a customer, you get a rep who handles that. some cinese guy that lives in france and translates everything to/from english | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | gemalto (gemplus, axalto), giesecke/devrient, safenet (aladdin, rainbow), spyrus, athena scs | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | those are a few that come to mind | 00:09 |
| Avengence | write to the chinese guy in english, he translatse to french, french guys read it and do something in a few days. response is translated and comes back. try to make anything happen quick or figure out a detailed problem this way | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, hmm, had wierd time and region and other stuff screen first in... HEBREW =) | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | only the first one is french | 00:10 |
| Sniper_swe | rainsto ever hangout here? | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Avengence: It'd be faster to learn french :) | 00:10 |
| rzr | you have no alternative learn chinese or french ? | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Sniper_swe: yup, he goes under 'jonni' | 00:10 |
| Avengence | it took months to find out that cards were dying at random because we were trigger a security countermeasure as part of an undocumented side effect of a function we used | 00:10 |
| Sazpaimon | let me strace -f msyncd | 00:10 |
| Sazpaimon | see what im getting | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 00:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, all my apps are gone =( | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but anyway, it sounds like Avengence - you were involved in some kind of large scale deployment | 00:10 |
| Sazpaimon | looks like its chugging along doing something | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | which has gotta be frustrating but it's also what all the companies are oriented toward | 00:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, and i have a lot installed from debs =\ | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | no one seems to care about small scale setups of a few cards, using off-the-shelf software that works with any os | 00:11 |
| Sniper_swe | thx again:) | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | as i see smart cards as portable crypto devices, and not id cards | 00:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, and it still shows the update avilable =) | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: are you sure you flashed the 40.x image? | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | what's the filename | 00:11 |
| rzr | btw i am curious most french programmer are using english in their code or specs ... not a perfect one ... but only lamers will call their function by french name | 00:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, it disappeared =) | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | rzr: because english is the global language of programming | 00:11 |
| Avengence | if you ask the card for a random number (you know, use it as a good random number generator) and then DONT immeately do an authentication wit hte card (the random was meant to be a nonce) then it incremens some counter (in case you are looking for pattern in the randoms?) and sooner or later when counter crosses random threshold the card commits suicide | 00:12 |
| rzr | yes i confirm | 00:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, real golf is the update | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: lame | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: oh, ok | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | as long as it doesn't come up with a system update you're fine | 00:12 |
| Lava_Croft | realgolf has been an update after pr1.2 since forever | 00:12 |
| rzr | but i have to fight w/ some of my workmates who mix sense of english words ... this can be a fun game :) | 00:12 |
| Lava_Croft | well, since i own a N9 | 00:12 |
| Lava_Croft | just remove realgolf | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | yeah, realgolf is pretty lame anyway | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: just check the about screen to see if you're up to date | 00:13 |
| Avengence | all sorts of other fun stuff you will never find out until it's too late, like the power draw is insane. in an effort to defeat differential power analysis, theres dummy load resistors in the card burning off over 100x the current the micro uses. you can only turn them off by fully powering down the card. you sometimes really need to keep the card alive, and that means huge power draw for mobile d | 00:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: btw, did you hear about the application of the bliechenbacher [sp?] attack to smart cards for key extraction | 00:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the idea is that many cards allow wrapped key import using rsaes-pkcsv1_5 | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, 1.3 40.2012.21-3PR_001 | 00:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the success/failure of the import leaks information about the key used to decrypt | 00:15 |
| Avengence | theres always a way | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | so you encrypt something with the public key you're at, and try to import it as a wrapped key | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and you blast the card with a few thousand of those strategically | 00:16 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | this leaks the key. | 00:16 |
| jabis | getting a bit pissed off - still 90% | 00:16 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | i think you probably still need to be authenticated to the card | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | jabis: what if you power it off and flash it | 00:16 |
| jabis | yaa - seems I have to do it... | 00:17 |
| jabis | just I hoped this time I wouldn't have to x) | 00:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: ok, good | 00:17 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck2: waht i worked on was not large volume but was large importance deployment | 00:18 |
| jabis | given it three hours and still nada | 00:18 |
| Avengence | much of my bitching comes not just from the CAC, but the other card we tried to use as an HSM in SIM format | 00:18 |
| jabis | seems I'll be updating via apt-get the next time, so I see where it borks | 00:18 |
| jabis | 2 phones and this one always fucks up | 00:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | probably won't be a next time | 00:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi, thanks for comment on app btw | 00:19 |
| jabis | uh oh - true that | 00:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | who's to work on pr1.4 if nokia is dumping all its staff *now* | 00:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | besides i don't think there was ever any reason to believe there was a pr1.4 in the cards at any point | 00:20 |
| Avengence | imagine dual smartcard reader, slot 1 is external card slort, slot 2 is inernal sim slot. slot 2 is prepoultaed with an HSM. the HSM does strong crypto for the wireless link to make the card in slot1 available to the host device. the link is bluetooth. the card will be cac. the device belong to someone in us goovt or armed forces | 00:20 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: thank to use, it's really helpful with posting screenshots :) | 00:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it was always 1.2, then 1.3, then that's it, show's over | 00:20 |
| Kozzi | s/use/you | 00:20 |
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| Kozzi | bah | 00:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ooh, that sounds like a damned cool piece of hardware | 00:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi, as far as i fix my personal pshyco state i would improve it | 00:21 |
| Avengence | as if the battery situation with two cards and a bluetooth transceiver isnt bad enough, it had a usb port. it had to be paired with the host device over a hardwire | 00:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, pr1.3.1 lol | 00:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | heh | 00:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also this means that the time to start working on the n9 cssu is right about now | 00:22 |
| Avengence | now, the host deivice is a mobile device that with actually a usb device, not a usb host. therefore this box had to be usb host. a usb device is allowed to charge from a host. some devices will stop talking if you dont let them draw charge current. winmobile phones do this, and they exceed 500ma draw | 00:22 |
| rzr | btw i would have wait a couple of days to make sure the release is fully tested before releasign inception | 00:22 |
| Kozzi | I always though nitdroid as a good backup plan when all nokia's service go offline, too bad it's also gone now | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | if i restore data and update might changed format of few things - it can fsck up things =\ | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | rzr: i did wait...quite a bit more than a few days | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | :p | 00:23 |
| arcean | ZogG_laptop, yeah :D the show must go on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ADh8Fs3YdU | 00:23 |
| Avengence | so now a 3.6v litium cell is driving a 1A 5V chargepump voltagebooster just to blast the phone to keep it talking during the link up until you can go wireless | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | kozzi: what do you mean "gone now"? | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | did e-yes give up on nitdroid? | 00:23 |
| Kozzi | I heard e-eyes gave up | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Kozzi: I guess you can find better cheaper genuine android devices | 00:24 |
| Kozzi | well mentioned somewhere | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's a shame how there's so many people badmouthing nitdroid (mostly the same people angry at me for inception :/) | 00:24 |
| Avengence | as a bonus, in emergency you could use it as backup battery for a phone call. downside, when its dead yo cant login to your phone with your smartcard (and its the only way in with the security software i wrote) | 00:24 |
| rzr | not sure | 00:24 |
| Kozzi | DocScrutinizer: the problem is I really like maemo | 00:24 |
| rzr | he commited lately | 00:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, are you planing on taking part in CSSU for harmattan? | 00:25 |
| rzr | i think he is near to release a version w/ voicecalls | 00:25 |
| Kozzi | first maemo phone eventhough I have been following since 770 | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Kozzi: that's not helping for nitdroid | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: well, i don't want to be responsible for everything | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | a cssu-type project is a pretty large undertaking | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and i definitely don't feel like taking that on alone | 00:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, it's about someone to start it | 00:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, i would like to take part of it, but my knowledge and level of helpness is more like bug reporting and testing =\ | 00:26 |
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| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck2: it was cool hardware, but it was a pain. NSA had to audit our wireless protocol. they had to audit the driver. I had to lockdown the bluetooth stack so it could never be used for anything OTHER than our device without interfering with anything else, aside from anything else (no IR comms, no execute from sd, etc) | 00:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i'd definitely be up to building an inception-based setup tool to get cssu loaded | 00:26 |
| Kozzi | DocScrutinizer: helping what? | 00:26 |
| Sniper_swe | i'm testing latest build of nitdroid and its great! | 00:26 |
| rzr | Sniper_swe, no voicecall on that one right ? | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | <Kozzi> I always though nitdroid as a good backup plan when all nokia's service go offline, too bad it's also gone now | 00:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i really like the harmattan *hardware*. more choices of OS can only be a good thing, especially when harmattan is a dead end and android isn't | 00:27 |
| Sniper_swe | No but skype calls working | 00:27 |
| rzr | Kozzi, nidroid : skype voice calls are functional now. #nitdroid #n9 | 00:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | aww, lame | 00:27 |
| rzr | 2 jull | 00:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but yeah, i won't use nitdroid until it has full-fledged phone capabilities | 00:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but i hope it keeps enough momentum to get to that point | 00:28 |
| rzr | i tested it just to test Qt nescessitas | 00:28 |
| Sniper_swe | feels closer now:) | 00:28 |
| Avengence | the whole bluetooth connected smartcard reader was a hack to add security to devices that lacked it. it required owning the device to pull of the security and that meant each model had to be specifically supported, so in the end certains models were approved for use in armed forces and are in field use | 00:29 |
| Kozzi | DocScrutinizer: with all those talks about Nokia slowly getting rid of maemo, I'm afraid the store will be gone soon | 00:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also sounds kinda scary that wince was used for some sort of sekrit device | 00:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, dual boot can be nice though if you want game or specific ap | 00:29 |
| Kozzi | that's what I really meant | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck2: given the fact mobilewireless.com been binned quite some time ago, I hardly see cmt interface on N9 reaching any more mature state than it (didn't) reach on N900 | 00:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | except that the store brings in money | 00:30 |
| rzr | Kozzi, check update time @ http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?topic=67.0# | 00:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and the cost of setting up the store is already sunk | 00:30 |
| Avengence | the real big thing that led to for the company was the dwal to put the readers in teh special phones that do classified voice and data, so the POTUS carries around the shitty email client I helped jam into a dual cpu, dual OS wince phone | 00:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | why would nokia shut down the store | 00:30 |
| rzr | so nitdroid is in good health | 00:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if they make more money with it up than down | 00:30 |
| Kozzi | rzr: thanks for the info.. it's great to see it | 00:31 |
| Sniper_swe | yeah it is. | 00:31 |
| rzr | eyes was fed up a few TMO pple , now the problem is fixed | 00:31 |
| jabis | oh look - a bootloop | 00:31 |
| rzr | fed up with ... | 00:31 |
| jabis | >.< | 00:31 |
| Sniper_swe | fixed or moved on? | 00:31 |
| Avengence | I didnt do the phone, that was done by big govt cotnractors. i just wrote the smartcard drives for the custom phones, intergrated or email client, provided the encrypted fs for the unclassified side, provided a simple tunnel program to shit classified data through the network on the unclass side | 00:31 |
| rzr | i wont argue more on that topic | 00:32 |
| Sniper_swe | from tmo | 00:32 |
| Sniper_swe | ok | 00:32 |
| Avengence | the people with clearance did evertuthing clasdified, which is all the crypto on that side for filesystem, network, etc so all the data the classified side (no net access) funnels through the unclass side is "harmless to leak" | 00:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ah, so this is for that general dynamics winmo phone | 00:32 |
| Avengence | bingo | 00:32 |
| Sniper_swe | great to see his commiting to nitdroid . he is great! | 00:33 |
| Avengence | that phone has two ARM cores running 2 copies on winCE with two ram banks and two flash banks. one classified, one unclassified. the keypad and screen exist on the other side of an integrated kvm. | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | some applications are installed from Store and they need to be restored via store | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | damnit | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | how do i restore all apps in once =\ | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, excellent insane touch | 00:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | remind me eanyone can i restore all apps from backup in one install? | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | or i need to do it per app | 00:35 |
| Avengence | the kvm waas just one function of a huge security system. the security system runs two processors in lockstep, constant crosschecking each other, with some secret embedded OS (customised Integrity afaik). all I/o passes through that security blob | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | insaaaaaaaane | 00:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: per app | 00:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but decide which ones you want to keep | 00:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | which is probably not all | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, but is so stupid, why didn't they add the button - restore all - i thought they added it in pr1.2 | 00:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also one would think they'd use linux and the nsa's very own selinux for a secure device | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | but if not at least as 1.3 | 00:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | "high assurance" isn't something that comes to mind when i think about windows ce | 00:37 |
| Avengence | L3 made a phone to same specs but totally different hardware. I dont know as much about their design. iirc, they had one cpu and two memory banks. they froze on wince instance and unforze the other on the same one cpu. still several more processsors for security, but not nearly the separate GD implemented. L3's was smaller, lower power, but way late | 00:37 |
| Avengence | I dont know why it wasn't linux but I know why it was win CE and not Windows Mobile | 00:38 |
| Sazpaimon | [16:17] <Kozzi> https://twitter.com/melsop74/status/220235286154711040 | 00:38 |
| Avengence | this is absurdly funny... | 00:38 |
| Sazpaimon | "via Twitter for iPhone" | 00:38 |
| Sazpaimon | [17:31] <rzr> eyes was fed up a few TMO pple , now the problem is fixed | 00:40 |
| Kozzi | elop hates n9 so much that even the team working on it can't use one | 00:40 |
| Sazpaimon | what, TMO isnt dumb anymore? | 00:40 |
| Sazpaimon | because thats the only way the problem would be fixed | 00:40 |
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| Avengence | Windows Mobile is a 1mil minimum license volume product. the govt contractors called microsfoft and were told they could have CE, no WinMob for volume asked about (10k-20k units). something lie 2 years into the project, microsoft finds out what is going on and is embarrasedm, winCE is shit for that type of device, the gui is horrendous (not that winmob is great but it is much better than wince) | 00:40 |
| jabis | reflashing - man I hate this process x) | 00:41 |
| Avengence | Microsoft offered to give WinMob to the govt contractors with support. govt said NO, this is behind schedule already, that will make it take longer, stay the course. end result... I think theres some screenshots on the unclass side | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what been this madness meant for? some president controlling his nukes? | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | DocScrutinizer51: yeah, obama himself has one | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you wouldn't control the nukes with it but you might call someone up and tell them to control the nukes | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | there was a significant amount of press about this thing right when obama got elected | 00:43 |
| Sazpaimon | oh, by the way | 00:43 |
| Sazpaimon | nokia suitue is still busy | 00:43 |
| Sazpaimon | thought I'd let you all know | 00:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 00:43 |
| jabis | OH NOES - selected the wrong language | 00:43 |
| jabis | x) | 00:43 |
| Avengence | yes, on the classified side, obama could have a phonecall about nukes, and then he could push the blakck button and write a email to michelle before hitting red bitton and writing the order to go kill bin laden | 00:44 |
| Sazpaimon | why's the button gotta be black | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | But no angry birds - ICBM edition. | 00:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Sazpaimon: red = sekrit stuff, black = not-so-sekrit | 00:44 |
| Avengence | not just the button, the wallpaper | 00:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the idea is that RED things need to be protected | 00:45 |
| Avengence | when you hit the red button the whole background is red so you cant forget | 00:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | BLACK things don't need protection | 00:45 |
| Avengence | RED/BLACK is partof the standards | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | itsnotabigtruck: That's got a major market in the civilian side. | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iiiiiiiinsaaaaaneeeee | 00:45 |
| Avengence | if you work with classified material, you know these things | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Keep girlfriends seperate. | 00:45 |
| Avengence | anyway, you gutys maybe see why I am disgusted with standard phone security and know I can do something much better without going insane | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's too bad there aren't any really security oriented phones for non-gov markets | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | these gd/l3 phones sound like they pretty much suck, but it's a good concept | 00:46 |
| Avengence | there have been some. swiss compan ymade a gsm phone with hardware voice crypto | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | one major problem is that nearly all commercial encrypted mobiles rely on circuit switched data (csd) | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's modem over gsm | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Avengence: just one minor detail: aegis never been emant to help with security of *user* | 00:47 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer51: I KNOW | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | circuit switched data is obsolete technology that isn't available on many carriers anymore | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and those that do offer it don't make it easy to get, precisely because it's used for crypto phones | 00:47 |
| Tronic | Why won't they do VoIP crypto and just use 3G? | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | what you need is something that has really tight voip integration and supports zrtp, dtls-srtp, scip...something | 00:48 |
| Avengence | the crypto used for classified voice by us govt travesses as analog signals | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | itsnotabigtruck2: then use fax service insteadof data service | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the n9 has the voip integration part, just not the security part, at all | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | DocScrutinizer51: hmm? said "fax service" *is* csd, i think | 00:49 |
| Avengence | you can plug a viper into a walljack and call it from a sme ped | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you can't send faxes from a gsm phone these days, either | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not exactly | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | not that anyone cares about that | 00:49 |
| Avengence | viper being GDs classified hardwire phones. i dont know other brand names | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there's voice, data, fax CSD | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also it would be cool to see an open source implementation of SCIP (that's the us government's crypto voice solution) | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | with the not-so-sekrit crypto algorithms of course | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | (which are still more than secure enough) | 00:50 |
| Avengence | i dont know for sure, but I have a feeling the encoding is tuned to deal with the compression used on phone networks. i know some time ago some guys designed a modem encoding that was tolrant to gsm compression to allow dialup modem over gsm voice raher than having to use csd | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | problem is that said scip system uses a really expensive patented proprietary codec :/ | 00:51 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck2: its just IPsec with different algorithms | 00:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | isn't that HAIPE, not SCIP? | 00:51 |
| * itsnotabigtruck2 's knowledge of this stuff is based entirely off wikipedia :p | 00:51 | |
| Avengence | brain fart, HAIPE is the super secrets IPsec | 00:51 |
| Tronic | Speaking of security, has anyone managed to find RRLP in Harmattan yet? | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Tronic: i think that's part of the cmt firmware | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | so if you want to look for it, look there | 00:52 |
| Avengence | SCIP is phone relatd, and Skipjack is one of the algorithms but now i cant remember if that was for voice or data | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ep | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's almost certainly there somewhere | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 00:52 |
| Tronic | I'm not into hacking myself but I'd certainly like to have some control over that feature. | 00:52 |
| Avengence | anyway, yeah, its funny, wikipedia has shit you cant ask about but when you say it then you get to hear the next part | 00:52 |
| Tronic | At the very least a notification when it is being used. | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also skipjack is obsolete, that's what they wanted to promote along with the clipper chip | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | current nist guidelines ban use of skipjack | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Tronic: cmt fw | 00:53 |
| jabis | motherf*cker - after reflashing the developer mode won't install | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~gsm-agps | 00:53 |
| infobot | rrlp is probably the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | clipper chip, as in that civilian encrypted voice thing in the 90s that was backdoored | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that turned into a huge fiasco | 00:54 |
| Avengence | yep, it was crap | 00:54 |
| Avengence | there was more than one easy exploit | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | OTP is now ridiculous - you can carry keys for a thousand people for an hour, and not notice it on a $10 card. | 00:54 |
| Avengence | trivial to recover keys | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i thought it wasn't trivial to recover keys, but there was a brute-force attack to spoof a LEAF (key escrow field) | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I was wondering about a socket that can split a microSD in half. | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Good luck recovering that. | 00:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | allowing you to establish a crypto conversation without a valid leaf, and therefore without being able to be intercepted | 00:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | (well, it was trivial to recover keys if you had the gov master key, and if the leaf wasn't spoofed per above) | 00:56 |
| Avengence | if I understood it right, you could play a related problem the other way as well | 00:56 |
| Corsac | grmbl, tracker won't let me backup the smses | 00:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | bur yeah, the cool thing about the government system is that unlike ZRTP and the like | 00:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it works over both the internet and modem | 00:56 |
| Avengence | basically, they fucked the backdoor. anyone playing straight would be easy to eavesdrop on. anyone not playing it straight would be harder for the govt to eavesdrop on. | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | meaning that you could have a landline phone that can speak through a gateway to a computer or voip phone or internet-connected mobile phone | 00:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | nice seems that restore thing dooesn't work not for apps from ovi not from apps4meego | 00:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | always different errors though | 00:58 |
| Avengence | yep, thats what i was saying before about calling a hardline. they wouldnt accept the mobile stuff if it was not backwards compatible with all the existing wired phones | 00:58 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | but the problem is that the government system relies on X.509 for authentication | 00:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | meaning it's not practical outside of a closed environment | 00:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you need something like ZRTP's short authentication strings to have true any-to-any crypto calls | 00:59 |
| Avengence | the tech that makes that happen is something the rest of us won't see. anyone who works on it will run afould of patents and then they can either contribute to the closed pool or be gone | 00:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but that system doesn't tell you anything about who's really calling you | 00:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | makes which happen? | 01:00 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: how did you install apps4meego ? | 01:00 |
| Kozzi | I keep getting "Aegis rejected..." | 01:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi, go to the site from phone and click - install client? | 01:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Kozzi: you can download it from the appsformeego website, but what i did is just put the apt lines in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/appsformeego.list | 01:01 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: doesn't work for me | 01:01 |
| Avengence | i was refering to the tech for inter op of wired and wireless, analog and digital devices with mixed compression algoritms | 01:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi, if you re-flashed turn on back option of untrusted sources | 01:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also you need to install aegis-community-source-policy | 01:01 |
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| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, it's installed automagically if you install client | 01:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: yeah, but i don't like the client | 01:02 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: yeah I have it enabled | 01:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's kind of a hunk of junk | 01:02 |
| Kozzi | itsnotabigtruck2: I reinstalled it but no help | 01:02 |
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| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, you are welcome to do better one =P | 01:02 |
| Avengence | as for the X509 reliance, the govt does it that way because its authoritarian but you could easyily change how keys are shared without compromising the other features like ability to traverse mixed media | 01:02 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | on the zrtp side of things, privatewave apparently implemented a zrtp over modem system | 01:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but they abandoned it and never released specs like their website promised | 01:04 |
| Sazpaimon | remember nokia suite? | 01:04 |
| Sazpaimon | well, it's still busy | 01:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | still not working? | 01:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ok, clearly something is wrong | 01:04 |
| Avengence | ZRTP relies on at some point knowing who is calling. if you dont already know the person out of band, then you have a problem, but that is for differnt use. zrtp is civilian and its assumed you know the person. anyone tat you call or receive call from that isnt known is not trust so dont talk secrets | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | even though I can see all my texts from my phone | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | all my pictures | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | all my everything | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | and can sync them all | 01:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, what happened? | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | but backup just wont work | 01:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | =\ | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | and capacity is stuck at updating | 01:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw as i'm at windows i need to check backup thing | 01:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: it's still the least awful option, it seems | 01:05 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | but right now the software support is nonexistant | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | I mean I can do a complete reflash with what I have now | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | since i did a sync | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | thats not as good as a backup, though | 01:05 |
| Sazpaimon | which I'd *really* like to have | 01:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's in a few linux clients, but not the prominent ones | 01:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i don't think there's any windows voip software with zrtp built in | 01:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's a problem | 01:06 |
| Sazpaimon | okay screw this | 01:06 |
| Sazpaimon | im uninstalling nokia suite | 01:06 |
| Avengence | if you need to be able to call someone you dont know but still have proff regarding endpoints and call security, then you are not a normal person. such use typically only comes up in stuff like govt where you get a call from someone you dont know but who has authority over you and the phone can confirm that | 01:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | one approach would be for the phone to show a fingerprint of some sort | 01:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and the person who referred you to the callee gives you the fingerprint | 01:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you call and compare | 01:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but that only verifies in one direction | 01:07 |
| Avengence | i agree, ZRTP is least bad and actually i'd say probably pretty good for civillian use in terms of the protociol. the implementation however leaves much to be desired. the proxy is flaky, it needs t obe integrated in more softphones. probleme is moments, why should one when others dont | 01:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also there's lots of scenarios you'd call someone you don't have an existing relationship with | 01:08 |
| Avengence | so some oss projects have old broken zrtp support for library versions you cant get and generally the options dont build right without a fight, so I hardly know anyone using zrtp | 01:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e.g. calling a company, calling a new acquaintance, calling a customer, etc. | 01:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | this is all based on an assumption that you want to go secure as often as possible, whether or not there's anything that secret being talked about | 01:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also fwiw it's actually possible to use x.509 together with zrtp | 01:10 |
| Avengence | well, in the case of something like calling a business, its easy. the business puts their fingerprint by their phone number. if you see it come up then you got connected to the right place. | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but there's a total of zero implementations of that | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | they added it in late in the rfcification | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the spec requires that the cert be DSA or ECDSA, not RSA | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and right now suite b adoption isn't so hot in general | 01:10 |
| Avengence | I've been following ZRTP since the first yaer it was demoed at defcon and I'm constantly disappointed by the lake of uptake | 01:11 |
| Avengence | s/lake/lack | 01:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | yeah | 01:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | part of it is because voip software isn't so hot in genersal | 01:11 |
| Sazpaimon | ok, uninstalled the drivers, pc suite, nokia link, and nokia suite | 01:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not polite that you talk about such things, it makes me feel real stupid =) | 01:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | most of it is decaying and decrepit | 01:11 |
| Sazpaimon | reinstalling nokia suite now | 01:11 |
| Avengence | Suite B was a big thing 6 years ago for govt, I'd think rest would have caught up | 01:11 |
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| Avengence | yeah, most of the voip stuff is rather shit | 01:12 |
| Avengence | i dont get it, why does everyone ignore sip | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: elliptic curve cryptography is *just starting* to hit most programs | 01:12 |
| Kozzi | apps4meego 0.9.17 install fine but *.25 doesn't | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | openssl didn't have it "for real" until 1.0, which is still unusual on conservative linux distros | 01:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, what version supports n9? | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | no public CA offers ecdsa/ecdh certificates meaning SSL using suite b is very unusual | 01:13 |
| Avengence | skype is raher crap but end up using it b/c somehow nobody else can figure out sip. then they bitch about skype being flaky asd why isn't there anything else (of course if I mention SIP it just makes them mad) | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | similar problems regarding slow uptake with openssh | 01:13 |
| Sazpaimon | ZogG_laptop, the 3.5 beta | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | red hat and fedora exclude all elliptic curve stuff entirely | 01:13 |
| Avengence | SSL, CAs, etc are rather worthless in my opinion | 01:13 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, and i need to get it thru betalabs right? | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | gpg won't have ecc until 2.1 and it won't be finished for a long while | 01:14 |
| Sazpaimon | ZogG_laptop, yes | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ms outlook 2010 on windows 7 is the only program that supports ecc in s/mime | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and only maybe 2 smart cards with ecc support are available on the market | 01:14 |
| Avengence | i've never seen s/mime used outside govt | 01:14 |
| Avengence | but surprisig they got their act together, gor a long time microsoft only had des and no aes in their s/mime | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | yeah, in order to use aes with s/mime you have to use outlook 2007 or 2010 on vista or 7 | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that has to do with the major crypto changes from xp to vista | 01:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | so in general, ecc software is really really slow in coming | 01:16 |
| Avengence | i still use gpg1.4. I got teh feeling that gpg2 had lost direction already and it never seemed like it was even ready. like gnome3 or basically any other gnu wtf | 01:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and no one seems to really care about it besides g-men | 01:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | even though it seems like a dramatic enhancement over rsa | 01:17 |
| Avengence | for the resy of us, why are we going to pay $200 for a 1 year cert to encrypt email to the few other people that paid it and use the same client and platform? gpg is free and even that is hard to get people to use | 01:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you can get s/mime certs free from 3 CAs | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | 1 year duration, renewable | 01:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol in the middle of me installin app by app from ovi store it decided to just reboot | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e-mail validated only of course | 01:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | for no reason | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if you sign up with startcom, you log into your account with a free s/mime cert, and can obtain free ssl certs through that account | 01:19 |
| Avengence | theres major interop insues not just with algorithms, but some clients get sick on the ASN1 encoding from ohter client (specifically how the data is chunks can make a message undecodable without manual working with openssl cli) | 01:19 |
| Corsac | the whole x509/CA ecosystem is a mess | 01:19 |
| Corsac | and asn1 is even messier :) | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | asn.1 is a cool idea | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it doesn't seem like very many people like it though | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the main problem i see is that most apis for dealing with it are pretty atrocious | 01:20 |
| Avengence | I see a lot of other things that are basically a crappy subset of it if you think about it | 01:20 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: PushUp will reboot the phone after installation :D | 01:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also it's a little bit out of place in a world that's moved on to other representations | 01:20 |
| Corsac | parsing asn.1 is just horrible | 01:20 |
| Avengence | somehow its just too much so people run and scream and go with somthing simpler even if it means reinventing the wheel and makig nyet another crappy encoding | 01:20 |
| Corsac | and thus people make mistakes | 01:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi, nope it wasn't somethin that reboot it | 01:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | most of the problems with asn.1 in practice seem to be people from the 90s who couldn't be arsed to correctly use it | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e.g. all the totally borked x.509 certs from back then | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | no reason it had to be that way | 01:21 |
| Avengence | right, basically all that stuff is crap. the smartcard stuff before pcsc, the old x509, the original ssl, all that stuf is terrible trash code | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also since anything based on asn.1 can be incorporated into anything else that uses it, it would have made x.509 and all that itu stuff more useful if asn.1 caught on | 01:22 |
| Avengence | but companies refuse to do away with waht they paid for (whehter it was license of programmer salary) an instead they pour more resources into "preserving" their "investment" | 01:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e.g. if you have a protocol based on asn.1, if you want to incorporate certificates, you can just drop the cert directly into the asn.1 output | 01:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | or you could store asn.1 data directly into an x.500 directly and query over it | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | *second directly = directory | 01:23 |
| Avengence | the fact I couldnt have an s/mime exchange between apple's mail.app and exchange which on xp due to encoding, but I could manually deal with the messages in seconds, always kinda pissed me off while leaving me thankful. dumb mistakes but at least the format used is workable | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i use it because i like how it's built into most e-mail clients | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | using gpg isn't very smooth | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the gpg devs don't really care much because they use mutt and the like | 01:25 |
| jabis | hmm damnit - now that I updated to 1.3 I can't flash a previous open kernel x) | 01:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | s/mime seems to work ok these days, except for windows xp + outlook not doing aes | 01:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | jabis: just grab inception | 01:25 |
| jabis | yeh already downloading | 01:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if you really want open mode, try taking the main firmware image and flashing only the kernel | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | don't bother with the "open kernel" | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but really, if you're going to do that, you need to follow this procedure | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | a) clear the disclaimer image | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | b) go into flash mode, without booting harmattan in between | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | c) flash the entire firmware image + emmc | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | d) flash the kernel only | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e) reboot | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | otherwise you'll have a disclaimer splash, and various aegis problems | 01:27 |
| Avengence | I've always had pgp integration in my email clients | 01:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | of course i recommend just using inception :p | 01:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | kmail is the only email client that has gpg support built in | 01:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | enigmail is available for thunderbird but it isn't very good | 01:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the gpg4win outlook plugin isn't very good either | 01:27 |
| merlin1991 | itsnotabigtruck2: the full flash does not enable the warning again? | 01:27 |
| Avengence | I used PMMail on OS/2 and later NT and it was an excellent multi-account POP client with pgp integration. if it did IMAP I'd probably still be using that program | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | merlin1991: nope, the disclaimer image is stored in the calibration data area (cal) during boot | 01:28 |
| jabis | sure you do ^^ and by all means it's great - just that I'm experimenting with some kernel modules to get vpn connections up for "default" windows TS | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if there's no disclaimer image stored there, it doesn't display during boot | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | you can't modify the cal, however, after going into open mode | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's also why it stays gone after going into open mode | 01:28 |
| Avengence | for the mac, teres the GPGMail plugin to mail.app that integated gpg very similar to s/mime | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | so you have to clear it from normal mode, then go into open mode | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | then it's set for good | 01:29 |
| Avengence | kmail is what I'll be using when akonadi is working. thunderbird + enigmail are definitely not cutting it | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | anyway, i'm using s/mime but have basically zero correspondents using it :( | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but the same applies to gpg | 01:30 |
| rzr | itsnotabigtruck, send me more mails :) | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's mostly because hardly anyone seems to care about security | 01:30 |
| Sazpaimon | uninstalled and reinstalled nokia suite | 01:30 |
| Sazpaimon | still bus | 01:30 |
| Sazpaimon | y | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Sazpaimon: what screen does it do that on | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | can't you do something different and avoid that | 01:31 |
| Sazpaimon | whenever i click backup | 01:31 |
| Sazpaimon | or restore | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | what if you try having nokia suite forget the phone, then re-add it | 01:31 |
| rzr | itsnotabigtruck, bah everyone is not idiot ... https://twitter.com/#!/NeedADebitCard# | 01:31 |
| Avengence | gpg I use with some friends, some business people, and have used randonlyt with a few ebay transactions | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | oh, well, why not just sync the SMSes and contacts up to your pc | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | skip the backup function | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | maybe the backup feature doesn't work on n9 | 01:31 |
| Avengence | the fact I've partipated in a key signing party probably puts me in the minoroty | 01:31 |
| jabis | hmm - now I lost the address to my .deb repos, I've installed dammit - I had a few key utilities that aren't there anymore | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | while e-mail validation only isn't so great, i don't really like the web of trust model either | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | other people can't be trusted to keep their keys secure, and it makes it really hard to get new users going with encryption | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | since in order to be trusted, they have to get a bunch of other gpg users to sign their keys | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and chances are they know 0 or 1 well integrated gpg users | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | probably 0 | 01:32 |
| Avengence | s/mime I used when it was my job and never outside that. company email and govt emails were s/mime and then there was frequent decoding issues. I had one of the ECA certs for communicating with NSA which my mployers paid quite a lot for. the process only confirmed how bad CAs are | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | heh | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also those eca certificates are escrowed | 01:33 |
| Avengence | all govt certs ar escorwed | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | fortunately the free tc trustcenter / comodo / startcom s/mime certs aren't escrowed, they're generated by your browser | 01:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, when does it got stuck? on update or what? | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | or by your smart card if you set one of those up with your browser | 01:34 |
| jabis | hmm - a wrapper for inception would be cool for QtCreator | 01:34 |
| Venemo | good night guys :) | 01:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | jabis: what would it do? | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon | okay, i deleted the phone from nokia suite | 01:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | later Venemo | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon | and deleted all my settings | 01:34 |
| Avengence | and its a damn good thing. whe nyou change your cac, you have to get your old key in softcac form to read any past mail. it doesnt take long to build a large collection of 'old' tokens you need. the only thing that grows faster is the revocation lists | 01:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo, night | 01:35 |
| Sazpaimon | not even gonna sign into my nokia account | 01:35 |
| jabis | itsnotabigtruck2 incept when testing on board device instead of using dpkg -i | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ah | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i'm sure it's possible | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i don't use qtc myself and i'm not particularly interested in dealing with it | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i haven't had many good experiences with it | 01:35 |
| jabis | gonna experiment with mce::TKLockControl | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it's packaging stuff is black magic that makes a ton of often-bad assumptions | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | *its | 01:36 |
| Avengence | there's a magic phrase to get an ECA cert if you want to make an attempt social engineering some spooks | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | e.g. if you try to install something to a path that doesn't contain bin | 01:36 |
| jabis | so now I have to hit test - uninstall locally and then incept the package x) | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | it won't be made + | 01:36 |
| Avengence | all you have to remember is "I work with the NSA" | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | excuse me, +x | 01:36 |
| Avengence | that gets you further trhan it ever should | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 01:36 |
| Avengence | normal procedure to get ECA cert for an mployee of DoD contractor: fill out huge pile of paperwork including letter on company letterhead and get it all notarized then mail it to one of the ECAs. they should do all the verification of not just your identify but confirming your company is listed as not just someone who has a business relationshiop but needs a such a cert | 01:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | who made the very first client for radio? | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: javispedro did the backend code | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i think qmlradio was the first frontend and it was by someone else | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the two people trying to cash out on the ovi store with paid apps came later | 01:40 |
| Avengence | a fw weeks after I submitted my papers, I got a call on my desk phone from the person at the ECA processing my papers. He didn't really verify who I was, which was the first big mistake I noticed. He told me my company could not be found on the DoD's list | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | btw jabis: for testing purposes, maybe get opensh installed | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and then in order to test, run something like | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | opensh -c 'aegis-exec -c -a mce::TKLockControl ./yourprogram' | 01:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ariadne won't work since it has a password prompt | 01:41 |
| Avengence | the company had contracts with DoD for years, but had never been told to go cert ECA certs for s/mime. it wasn't until NSA got invilved that that came up. so I said, "oh, we work for both DoD and NSA, it was the latter that asked me to get this." | 01:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | hmm | 01:42 |
| Avengence | His response "OOh! NSA never puts anyone on the list!" and that was that. I had my cert th next day. apparently , the NSA list is too secret for the ECAs to see it | 01:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 01:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, there is this system for safety of mastercards in internet it's used to pay nokia publish fee of 1 euro btw | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | not sure why anyone would want escrowed certificates with their real identities on them if they aren't on official gov business anyway | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if you use that to fool around, well, they know precisely where to send the black helicopters :p | 01:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, so you need code to proceed which you get with the credit bills | 01:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't get those so i called them | 01:44 |
| Avengence | that about the same level of genious as "RSA has a weakness that we know (but won't discuss) so we can't use it on the classified network. nothing better exists, so we will do everything in the clear on the classified side until we have a good enoug halgorithm, because nothing is better than something imperfect! oh, and we can all trust each other in the classified net, permimeter defenses flawles | 01:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | o.O | 01:44 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: you talking about 3D-Secure? | 01:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | wasn't that the whole point of all that suite b stuff anyway | 01:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | and all i needed to say wass phone number or ID number, it's so stupid i think, like if person stoled my bag he would get all info anyway, but on other hand they do not provide it thru bank site that is more protected as credit card is separete from bank company | 01:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Avengence: sounds like it | 01:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, i dunno the name, it doesn't matter, what matters is that how i got code easily n phone but not thru encrypted bank site =) | 01:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | on sites with vbvisa it just sends me to the bank website then back to the merchant website without any prompts | 01:46 |
| Avengence | Suite B should be good enough for the classified stuff, but it was not yet even up for adoption there at the time I was involved. the email client loaded on the classified side has signatures only | 01:46 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | :O | 01:46 |
| Avengence | Verified by Visa, MatserCard SecureCode are both 3D-Secure | 01:46 |
| Avengence | sorry, I just did 2 years in THAT industry | 01:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also maybe there's some substance to those conspiracy theories that the nsa's already broken rsa :p | 01:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, the point here is that in our country visa is separete almost monopoly thing, if it's not straight from them, it probably means other company ordered them from them and just use their service at the end | 01:47 |
| Avengence | i knew crypto and smartcards so that got some interest. I took a job wherI did a CAP server and then all the rest was maintaining awful 3D Secure systems (mainly the MPI , ACS was someone elses nightmare) until I got the fuck out | 01:48 |
| Octal_ | Rely on EMV ! | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: they don't have mastercard, amex, etc. in .il? | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also it's a shame how emv deployment is uber slow in the us | 01:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, we have mastercads and visas | 01:48 |
| Octal_ | True | 01:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | AFAIK | 01:48 |
| Avengence | Octal_: CAP is an EMV spec | 01:48 |
| Avengence | CAP is SHIT | 01:49 |
| Avengence | it has giant holes because it was designed by idiots | 01:49 |
| Octal_ | Yep | 01:49 |
| Avengence | 3D secure is worse though | 01:49 |
| Octal_ | I'm working on contactless EMV | 01:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, but AFAIK it's 2 or one company in control of that | 01:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | on the tube, it turns out that while the machines accept magstripe cards, there's a super low daily limit on how much you can put on your card | 01:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | if you have a chip card, the limit is much higher | 01:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | probably because they're worried about cloned cards or something | 01:50 |
| Avengence | now that I've seen it, I refuse to carry a 3D Secure card. all it does it makee it harder for me the cardholder if there is any fraudulent activity, itwill never actually reduce chances of that happening | 01:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | also, do any banks in the us even use cap | 01:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i thought that was mostly a brit thing | 01:51 |
| Avengence | chip cards dont exist i nUS. amex tried, it wa signored. so now its rfid in US forget security, we want convience, just wave my wallet to pay, who cares if more than just that machine reads my card | 01:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i have a US chip card, but yeah, they're unusual | 01:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | a few banks market them to travelers | 01:51 |
| Avengence | CAP is in use in less than a half dozen countries worldwide afaik | 01:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i haven't seen a single us store with an emv reader | 01:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also it seems like the banks are moving away from RFIDs in cards | 01:52 |
| Avengence | anyway, I've yet to see a card that was properly setup for CAP. either they are in the lame mode with really weak security, or theyt just dont work and the bank gives up when they realize that | 01:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | now they're pushing RFIDs in stickers and phones, but not cards | 01:53 |
| Avengence | well, my bank card is debit but carries visa logi and embossed so it can run as credit. its got a magstripe, emv chip and rfid for contactless pay up to small limit. | 01:54 |
| Avengence | the only thing its missing is a keypad on the card face | 01:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | also it would be so much better if banks issued crypto cards and used ssl client certs or something | 01:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but per what i was complaining about earlier, compatibility and software support sucks majorly | 01:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | so i guess that's why they turn to things like cap | 01:54 |
| Avengence | US banks are using the security questo=ions, europeans banks use real two factor auth | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | yeah | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | some of them use codes sent through email or sms | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | or phone call | 01:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | both of you are crazy | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | o.O | 01:55 |
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| Avengence | the swedish-owned bank I used in estonia mandated an OTP card for web nanking and if you wanted a limit high enough for it to be useful then you have to use a pin calculator (like rsa secureID) in mode 1 to login, mode 2 to confirm each transaction | 01:56 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | speaking of OTP, OTP systems are garbage | 01:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | well, most of them | 01:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, not in a bad way | 01:57 |
| Avengence | my czech bank lets me login with a static password but they have optio to do ssl client login with cert stored how I chose (they suggest usb stick but I prefer smartcard in usb holder with pin protection) | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | they're generally either provisioned by the vendor, or can be user-provisioned but only with super expensive hardware | 01:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, what time is in your place now btw | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that means that somebody else knows your secrets | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that means somebody else can impersonate your users or be breached by somebody else who wants to impersonate your users | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's precisely what happened with rsa securid | 01:57 |
| Avengence | to do a transaction a have to repeat the code sent to my phone by sms, but thats just web bank. to use my credit card onoine, I have 3D Secure off so I always bounce off the ACS with an instant success | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | they were keeping everybody's secrets in a database, connected to their lan | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | they got breached, hax0rs made off with the secrets, and used it to get into lockheed's lan iirc | 01:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | everything has security holes | 01:58 |
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| ZogG_laptop | the point is not to go head to head with security but to find the way to go around | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but one should try to minimize them | 01:59 |
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| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, you know how most passwords and data is stolen? | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | in this case, securid is a product marketed to keep your lan more secure | 01:59 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | but they couldn't be trusted to behave securely | 01:59 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | they being rsa data security | 01:59 |
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| itsnotabigtruck2 | note that rsa data security, and rsa securid, have nothing to do with rsa encryption | 02:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, people put cameras and card readers inside ATMs even (in russia for example) | 02:00 |
| Avengence | SecureID is worse. the last place (banking guys) I worked at used the secureID for VPN logins at the ISP. part of Visa rules, to levels of auth, cant control the entry point, etc. basically SecureID for VPN to ISPs private net to then SSH into our production servers | 02:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | or people simple watch password you type or make site to look alike as bank site | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: yeah but you the user can do something about phishing | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | by not being an idiot | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | emv cards would help a lot with the atm skimming problem | 02:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | since you can't skim a chip | 02:01 |
| Avengence | we had a box of SecureID cards and only used a few. as we got toward the end, someone noticed something wasnt right. the card serial and the keyfile serials were misaligned by 1. we had 1 card for which we had no key, and we had a key for a card we didnt posses (but knwe the serial!) | 02:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 02:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | well, presumably the owner of that securid device sent it back or tossed it out or something | 02:01 |
| Avengence | suffice to say, when that was discovered, the whole box went back to RSA and the VPN was off until the new box was verified | 02:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but yeah, that's bad | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | that's why vendor provisioning sucks | 02:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, you missed the link rzr sent yesterday, just go to twitter or facebook and enter "credit card" you'll get pictures of them people send to internet | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i saw it | 02:02 |
| Avengence | in all these cases, CAs, RSA, etc its just the same old stupid slop. waht makes this companhy in any position to enforce security? NONE | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | he sent it again today | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | at least with smart cards, you generate the key on the card | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and the vendor doesn't know anything about it | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | at least unless they deliberately backdoored the system or something | 02:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, did you answer what time is it where you are? | 02:03 |
| Avengence | ZogG: ATM skimming is a problem indeed | 02:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | ZogG_laptop: the afternoon | 02:03 |
| Avengence | but you have to be someplace for that. the attacks that work remote are worse | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, people buy binociles (how you spell it) to sit in wifi free cafe and check your passwords =) | 02:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | binoculars | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'll try to remember but 90% i wouldn't =( | 02:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | well, a solution for that is to simply sit facing the window (laptop facing away) | 02:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | but they can also monitor the unencrypted wifi transmissions | 02:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | though it's from word ocular which means sight or eyes i think | 02:05 |
| Avengence | CAP has bad implications too. now with a CAP reader, you have a portable PIN verifier. a mugger can test the PIN given bby the victim before visiting an ATM. if the CAP reader says no, beat that sucker till he gives you a number thatmakse it say yes! | 02:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | heh | 02:05 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: binocular | 02:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, late but thanks =) | 02:06 |
| Avengence | bi=two, ocular=eyes | 02:06 |
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| Avengence | in case that helps | 02:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah i remembered it | 02:06 |
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| ZogG_laptop | so my n950 got stuck at israel it got thru few countries in 2 days and stuck for 4 days in clearence in israel and dhl contacted me and it's always different people with same questions | 02:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | isn't israel well known for being paranoid when it comes to borders and customs | 02:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i guess it's hard to blame them but it's still probably a big hassle | 02:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, meh it;s not that. it's all about VAT | 02:08 |
| Avengence | anyway, free wifi is trouble but in general dont use any unencrypted transports on networks yo dont own or trust (and that includes your isp for things in the clear of importatce greater than irc, i use ssl on that too) and of course you should use keyfiles and not passwords in public | 02:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | or better yet, smart cards | 02:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, they take about 100% tax for cars for example, they are strcik on getting things in. and i buy same phone they may send it for FCC tests twice, though that phone was tested, just coz they can | 02:09 |
| Avengence | keyfile can be on a smartcard | 02:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | well yeah but then it isn't really a file anymore :p | 02:09 |
| Avengence | depends, in the smartcards there is a "filesystem" and there are "key files" with varoius protection attributes | 02:10 |
| Avengence | granted folders and files have numbers instead of names, but they are called files | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | true but it depends on the card and they aren't really files anyway | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | and e.g. ms calls them "containers" and they're separate from files | 02:11 |
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| rzr | Kozzi, eyes asks about "cat /proc/version" on pr1.3 | 02:13 |
| rzr | Kozzi, can anyone tell ? | 02:13 |
| Sazpaimon | rzr, PR1.3 kernel version is 2.6.32.54-dfl61-20121301 | 02:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | hmm i still can't update my gmail even after flash | 02:14 |
| Sazpaimon | however, let it be known that PR1.2 kernel works fine on 1.3, I have an openmode PR1.2 kernel installed and did an OTA update of 1.3 | 02:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | doest have any data in /home/user ? maybe i need to delete old data | 02:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | Sazpaimon: er, i thought it didn't even let you do upgrades in open mode | 02:15 |
| Sazpaimon | it does | 02:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | being in open mode prevents going into 'update mode' | 02:15 |
| Sazpaimon | it just wont flash the kernel | 02:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | preventing cmt/nolo/kernel updates | 02:15 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah, but all the software updates will happen | 02:16 |
| Avengence | I'm usually a hacker for defense. you can't defend if you don't keep up with the attacks and you can't just read, you have to try both sides so test nets get built. sooner or later, some situation presents itself that's not even a challenge but still is just ther so you do it | 02:16 |
| Sazpaimon | so basically the mp-001-harmattan-pr package will get updated and pull its dependencies | 02:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw no update comming to n950 right? (i'm not talking about adding n9 repo btw) | 02:16 |
| Avengence | sometimes some site has such a bad hole you can't help but exploit it to confirm it, ten again to laugh, and then some more for good measure | 02:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | not sure | 02:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, Avengence it was funny when one guy had not enuf points to study computer security in uni, and he just hacked their site saying it and telling that at least who finished and got jobs should do their work | 02:18 |
| rzr | Sazpaimon, thx | 02:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, Avengence and than day later other guy hacked his city uni telling that first guy is right =) | 02:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | lol | 02:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | i just finished a comp sec class, it was nothing but really basic information assurance stuff | 02:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck2 | the kind of stuff i was well aware of to begin with | 02:19 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: heh, thats te sort of harmless fun I like | 02:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck2, as i get it it was to get to uni points and the main courses he wanted are security | 02:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | fresh install feels faster | 02:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | and as just i said it - phone rebooted itself | 02:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 02:22 |
| virtuald | http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/03/evidence-us-judicial-vendetta-wikileaks-activists-mounts | 02:22 |
| Avengence | sometimes things get carried away. i.e. stayed at a shitty hotel that advertised wifi, it only worked in the lobby. in the morning, it wasn't working at all, and when I complained they didnt want to do anything. its free, use it if it works they say. nope, I wouldnt have stayed there if they didnt say they had it, so I expect it, fix it! | 02:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | second time on installations, and nothing to triger it =\ | 02:22 |
| Sazpaimon | okay fuck this software | 02:22 |
| Sazpaimon | i hope every single person that had a hand in making nokia suite gets fired | 02:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, lol, most people got fired =) | 02:23 |
| Sazpaimon | good, they at least deserve it | 02:23 |
| Avengence | while my wife argueed with the manager, whi climed the computer as the desk worked find, I poked around the network to find the free wifi was the same network as the computer at reception and the one in the offiuce. no separate router, if i didnt have internet, neither did they. confirmed tey are lying | 02:23 |
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| Avengence | they didnt want to deal with it and I had nothing better to do so I started making noise. Their IT guy came and got the internet working, but 2 minutes later I was out the door and he had other problems. someone both their computers crashed and their entire booking database was gone | 02:24 |
| Avengence | oh well, if their IT guy knows his shit, they have backups, right? | 02:24 |
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| ZogG_laptop | lol | 02:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | so my mail problem wasn't solved after flash as well | 02:38 |
| jabis | what mail problem? | 02:53 |
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| ZogG_laptop | jabis, it doesn download any emails at all | 03:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | all i get is circle indicator in app | 03:18 |
| jabis | have you tried removing and adding the account that doesn't work? | 03:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes | 03:19 |
| jabis | flashing your phone (without clearing your user data) wont affect the accounts | 03:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | jabis, i did flashed pr1.3 | 03:19 |
| jabis | but with --clear-user-data ? | 03:20 |
| jabis | or without | 03:20 |
| jabis | just flasher -f -F img.bin ? | 03:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes | 03:21 |
| jabis | (I mean I flashed as well, and everything is still here) | 03:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | flashe.exe -F img.bin -f | 03:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | flasher.exe* | 03:21 |
| jabis | that wouldn't clear teh userdata :) | 03:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | but i did it and it didn't solve | 03:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | it was before pr1.3 | 03:22 |
| Elleo | ZogG_laptop: if it's the messageserver bug you need to delete a directory too | 03:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i assume there is some config or data corrupted and its in user dir | 03:22 |
| Elleo | iirc it's ~/.qmf or something like that | 03:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Elleo, i dunno what is msg bug and what else it would delete except mail realted stuff? | 03:23 |
| Elleo | remove accounts, delete ~/.qmf, restart then readd accounts | 03:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Elleo, all accounts? | 03:23 |
| Elleo | messageserver gets stuck using 100% when trying to get mails and never fetches anything | 03:23 |
| Elleo | yeah, you're going to have to recreate them all after removing .qmf | 03:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Elleo, and restore is not an option after? | 03:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | as it would coppy corupted files? | 03:24 |
| Elleo | quite probably, but if your accounts are all imap you won't be losing anything | 03:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | can it be doen without deleting all accounts? | 03:24 |
| Elleo | since the mails are stored on the server | 03:24 |
| Elleo | dunno, deleting ~/.qmf might result in the accounts being deleted as well; not sure | 03:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Elleo, i'm not affraid to lose emails i'm affraid to restore and backupthings again =\ | 03:25 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: do you have any gmail accounts? | 03:25 |
| Elleo | or you might end up in a wierd scenario where it's desynched | 03:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, the one that is not working =) | 03:25 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: delete the gmail account, reboot, see if others work | 03:25 |
| Avengence | I've been trhough it several times, its always the gmail account | 03:26 |
| Avengence | it hangs or prevents startup of the messageserver so no email flows | 03:26 |
| Avengence | you can manually start the messageserver aftre boot but it'll eventally get stuck | 03:26 |
| Elleo | Avengence: you have to remove the .qmf dir as well as the account | 03:26 |
| Avengence | solution is to add back the gmail acount after the reboot so its coming in fresh with no old data | 03:27 |
| Elleo | anyway, I'm heading to bed | 03:27 |
| Elleo | night | 03:27 |
| Avengence | Elleo: removing the qmf directory did not help, the account had to be removed. when removing the account, qmf dir did not require separate handling (this was my experience twince, thats all) | 03:28 |
| Elleo | ah, I'm just going on what I've seen others say on the topic | 03:28 |
| Elleo | anyway, really off bed this time ;) | 03:29 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, what process? | 03:29 |
| Avengence | the qmf dir is a cache that might get cleaned by the remove or maybe it was horked so the restart cleared it anyway. you should be able to delet the qmf dirs when yo uwant and you just have to download messages again | 03:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, i'llmove it | 03:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | simple like that | 03:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | is it accounts dir or just mails? | 03:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yo | 03:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | back on | 03:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | i backed up before flash anyway | 03:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | looks like i didn't miss much | 03:32 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: messageserver iirc | 03:32 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: the .qmf is just a message cache, doesnt hold the account data | 03:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, global msgs ass sms as well or just mail? | 03:33 |
| Avengence | theres some scripts that run at boot to setup the cache and start the server. if theres a problem with te cache dirs, it wont start the server | 03:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, and qmf is cache dir right? | 03:33 |
| Avengence | ZogG_laptop: its just email and its split up by email account but easiest to kill it all at once if you need to | 03:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh than i don't care to delete it anyways | 03:34 |
| Avengence | all your sms, etc are elsewhere in database | 03:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, thanks | 03:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw did mail had get more msgs button before? | 03:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | it works now | 03:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, i moved dir and as well deleted account | 03:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | and rebooted | 03:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have my mail back | 03:37 |
| Avengence | unless they fixed it in 1.3, the template for gmail accounts doesnt match the xml format nokia defined so it throws a warning in the logs on each startup about some bad xml in parsing the account data. | 03:39 |
| Avengence | that isn't the cause as far as I can tell, but that was enough to draw me to the gmail account and confirm that removing that one made all my other accounts work | 03:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 03:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | now i may go to sleep | 03:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | after one more cig | 03:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw what the f people talked about changes in twitter, i don't see any changes, as well frals is not working there anymore =\ | 03:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, hmm i see your twitter, gonna stalk you | 03:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon, 0 tweets and 1 follower =) | 03:42 |
| Avengence | my opinion is that there isn't often much of meaning that can be said in so few words, so I ignore the abreviated drivel | 03:42 |
| Avengence | a few times someone has tossed me a twitter link that maybe would have had something good, but I think I've only once had one load something other than a blank page | 03:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which browser do you use | 03:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's definitely possible to get something meaningful into 160 words | 03:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, let's say that it's kinda public sms, i thought why to use it too, but it's nice to read announecements and some thoughts and connect with people, i have a lot of maemo/meego ppl there to ask or to share something | 03:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | excuse me, 140 characters | 03:44 |
| Avengence | firefix + adblock + noscript & more | 03:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | firefox* | 03:44 |
| Avengence | typo, but maybe it need to be firefixed | 03:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, it's more as mobile app i think, though i use a lot in browser too. as well you can be not public thn no one would bug you untill you say so | 03:45 |
| Avengence | sms is barely useful to me. I rarely fit anything into 1 message. its usually a 2 or 3 part message to say anything useful. I prefer email | 03:45 |
| Avengence | I find it funny with Goolge Voice. the character counter goes away and it says "Really?" just about when I think I'm halfway. | 03:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://twitter.com/itsnotabigtruck/status/220317852299821056 just twitterized my inception release | 03:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also Avengence: whitelist twitter for noscript | 03:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | noscript is nothing but trouble | 03:47 |
| Tronic | I wonder why people would use that in the first place... | 03:48 |
| Tronic | Web doesn't work without Javascript. | 03:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | my app seems still works on pr1.3 | 03:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | =0 | 03:49 |
| Tronic | You might just as well disable CSS, except then things would at least still work. | 03:49 |
| Avengence | web was designed as documents. documents dont need javascript | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with a web that increasingly relies on javascript, stripping it out of everything is moronic | 03:49 |
| Avengence | anything that wants to execute to show me something is suspect | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it was designed for documents but that was 20 years ago | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it isn't anymore | 03:49 |
| Avengence | it should have died abot 20 years ago too | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | things change | 03:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, you missed one thing - QR code | 03:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: what about it? | 03:50 |
| Avengence | maybe if the browser tabs had some isolation i might be more willig to let some javascript run | 03:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, you may add it as the picture so i can open in browser and download it to phone | 03:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | or open link in the phone | 03:50 |
| Avengence | as it is, very minimal makes everything MUCH faster | 03:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence, than again you can use console browser without tabs | 03:51 |
| Avengence | another problem is no browser is smart enough to stop scripts on non-foreground pages. i dont need scripts runnign on 100 tabs I cant see. almost none of those pages even need a script, so if it cant isolate them and stop them when not in use, then they dont even get teh priviledge | 03:51 |
| jabis | I love it how some people are stuck to the 90's | 03:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: i already have one on the inception website | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i didn't put it on the tmo post | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i want everyone to click through to the website anyway | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it has stuff people need to read | 03:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, add it's usefull | 03:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, btw i installed inception without dpkg - just with native installer from downloads | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw if any inception fans could retweet that tweet that would be awesome | 03:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, yeah but you can make QR code to site | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and yeah, that's intended to work | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i take it that means your reflash was successful? | 03:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, retweeted though i think no use, as everyone using it anyway | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i hope that whole thing earlier didn't cause you to lose any data of interest | 03:53 |
| Avengence | as an industry, we have a security situation so bad that anyone SANE would not pay for this shit. the world is obviously insane. most of the security issues come from bad precendents, one of which is that the user can trust the data received by the progranms he is using. its already dangerous to receive data. to execute that unchecked is madness. | 03:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, let's say if i lost somthing it's something i just horded =) its always apps i don't use or imgs, but can't delete | 03:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | downloading all the internet 80 years already ) | 03:54 |
| Avengence | i clicked that twitter link for the heck of it, it loads up, so im not blocking, its just that twitter is that unreliable | 03:55 |
| jabis | RT'd | 03:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jabis: danke | 03:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw did bitly go from bit.ly to bitly.com? | 03:56 |
| Avengence | one thing I couldnt help but notice, aside from the errant pounds flying around wasting precious characters, as usually, the url is a mystery redirect. who knows if its to inception or disney.com or yourIEgot0wntbitches.cn | 03:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, maaan i almost died here =) i had no devel-su as after refalsh i didn't have those reinstalled but devel mode on, had to re-enable it. thought aegis removed it | 03:57 |
| Avengence | at the same time we are trying to tell people to look at links in email and not fall for phishing scams, browsers are hiding huge portions of the url bar, some dont show the url before you click on it, and retarded shorteners are getting people used to the idea of url as mystery box | 03:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | and yes devel mode reboots the phone | 03:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | sure | 03:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | my cat if hunting insects at home | 03:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | he eats bugs and stuff after running after them | 03:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 03:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ugh, why does grob have to suck | 04:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | grob? | 04:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | funny to see irc url inside termianl of n9 =P | 04:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm incepted | 04:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | just ran pasiv | 04:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | now i'll give time to MohammadAG to release new system-ui he works on after it surely works with pr1.3 and than i'll incept toggles | 04:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the browser | 04:03 |
| Avengence | b/c it's a browser and they suck by definition? | 04:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | o.O | 04:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, btw liked the end of site the disclaimer about inception and n9 =) | 04:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 04:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | night | 04:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's 04 here | 04:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | later zogg! | 04:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw is it possible to make a qr code some color other than black on white | 04:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i made one that's red on black but it's not scanning | 04:11 |
| Avengence | if its 04 there, its almost time to smoke | 04:12 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: QR codes depend on contrast, not color | 04:12 |
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| Avengence | red on black might be too low? I've seen blue on white, green on wjite, black on whjite, white on black, purple on orange(yellow?) | 04:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently you can use arbitrary colors but it has to be dark on light | 04:13 |
| Avengence | it can be opposit. I have a black shit with white print that scans fine | 04:14 |
| Avengence | s/shit/shirt | 04:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ok, black on red with a thick border worked in codecam | 04:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can see it on the inception website | 04:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | looks so much cooler now | 04:16 |
| Avengence | I havent tried codecam, meescan sometimes just cant see thinks that should be easily scannable. the cuecat is still faster for 1D codes | 04:16 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his cuecat. | 04:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | I need to get the hack to convert codes working again | 04:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | bitly says there's been 53 downloads through the qr code link | 04:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a few of those are me :p | 04:19 |
| Avengence | SpeedEvil: all I had to do was cut one trace to make it shit out plain ascii | 04:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that doesn't include link downloads from the site however | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Avengence: Oh - I diddn't know there are hardware hacks | 04:21 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: I just looked at your new version and I think the border might be needed for the inverse color. I hadn't thought about but the white on black shirt has a heavy border too | 04:21 |
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| Avengence | SpeedEvil: yeah, I wouldnt use it if it needed software. the fact that once hacked it works like most high end scanning pens, raw output as ascii keycodes, makes it useful. its just more picky about the speed and distance than a real pen | 04:22 |
| jabis | wondering could I hijack power button click event and prevent the default action while app has focus -.- | 04:23 |
| jabis | I'd like to hook up the camera actions zoom in -> vol up zoom out -> vol down and powerbutton to fire the shot - this fever isn't accommodating my ponderings | 04:24 |
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| Avengence | SpeedEvil: http://www.sujal.net/tech/declaw/5minute.html | 04:36 |
| Avengence | almost forgot to paste that | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - thanks | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I was about to google that | 04:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that the USB variant? | 04:37 |
| Avengence | usb? | 04:38 |
| Avengence | didnt know they made one | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I know there was one | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I have the ps2 though | 04:38 |
| Avengence | every cuecat I saw plugs into ps/2 keyboard | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | that makes it output ascii too? | 04:38 |
| Avengence | yep | 04:38 |
| Avengence | basically, its cutting the serial eeprom that holds the serial number, and it was doing some stupid hash or something that ends up outputting unmolested data when theres no serial added in | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting | 04:39 |
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| Sazpaimon | [20:41] <ZogG_laptop> Sazpaimon, hmm i see your twitter, gonna stalk you | 04:52 |
| Sazpaimon | not mine | 04:52 |
| Sazpaimon | someone made a twitter account in my name to harrass me | 04:52 |
| Sazpaimon | because they thought I was cracking symbian applications | 04:52 |
| Sazpaimon | when I didn't react, they didnt bother to do anything about it | 04:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sazpaimon: lol | 04:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | anyone here with tumblr? | 04:55 |
| Avengence | SpeedEvil: that site doesnt match the hack in my cuecat | 05:02 |
| Avengence | SpeedEvil: I hadnt read it all before I pasted the link. now I'm seeing that it says that wire cut only removes the serial but doesnt give claen output. instead, it links to anoter page that says to put +5 to a pin to decrypt output | 05:03 |
| Avengence | but neither of those are waht I did to mine. its been well opver a decade so I just took the case off mine. I have the model with 2 screws, very early unit. I chopped a pin off the microprocessor, didnt touch the serial eeprom. I don't know what page I got this hack from, but its easier than the others | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess I need to do some digging. :) | 05:06 |
| Avengence | waht rev do you have? | 05:07 |
| Avengence | it looks lke the end effect was I disconnected the crystal from one pin but not another, so maybe its throwing off some comminucations. obviously the micro is runnign with the crystal on one pin, if the micro wasnt running at all it'd output nothing | 05:09 |
| Avengence | if its the same rev, disconnect pin 10 of the hyundai chip | 05:10 |
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| Sazpaimon | okay so I think its probably the version of nokia suite that I have thats broken | 05:13 |
| Sazpaimon | because I found my old E71 which is in pieces and managed to get it to boot | 05:13 |
| Sazpaimon | and nokia suite is doing the same goddamn thing | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Avengence: I mean also physical | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | - I need to find exactly where it is. | 05:14 |
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| Avengence | ohh. I didnt have mine plugged in by I knew exactly which drawer of which file cabinet its in. drawe with working keyboards, under the mice with the ps/2 extension cables should be the cuecat and all keyboard adapter plugs. bingo, organization pays off | 05:16 |
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| Sazpaimon | oh awesome | 05:26 |
| Sazpaimon | nokia suite converts legacy symbian smses to conversations | 05:26 |
| Sazpaimon | that'll make it easier to import into the N9 | 05:27 |
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| RST38h | So, PR1.3? | 05:53 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah its a thing | 05:55 |
| RST38h | Will N950 work? | 05:55 |
| Sazpaimon | there's no PR1.3 OCF for N950 | 05:55 |
| Sazpaimon | ive heard you can change your repository to a PR1.3 N9 repository and update packages there | 05:56 |
| Sazpaimon | but avoid the mp-001-harmattan-pr package | 05:56 |
| RST38h | mghm | 05:56 |
| Sazpaimon | it will brick your phone | 05:56 |
| Sazpaimon | irrevocably brick it | 05:56 |
| Sazpaimon | because it will set your firmware revision internally to PR1.3, and there'd be then no way to reflash it since there's no PR1.3 flash image to use | 05:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also more importantly, it'll set the first version component to 40 | 05:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | n950 versions start with single digit numbers | 05:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so the pr1.3 would be more like 4 or 5 | 05:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | = no way to 'downgrade' to the real pr1.3 release | 05:59 |
| Sazpaimon | you could, I guess, switch to open mode, then upgrade the pr package | 05:59 |
| Sazpaimon | that way sw-cert wont get written to | 05:59 |
| Sazpaimon | but then neither will the kernel | 05:59 |
| Sazpaimon | but you can flash that seperately I guess | 06:00 |
| RST38h | so basically remaining n950 users are left in the cold? | 06:00 |
| Sazpaimon | you guys should have known that when you didnt get PR1.2 final | 06:01 |
| Sazpaimon | just the beta | 06:01 |
| Sazpaimon | you get what you paid for In guess | 06:01 |
| Sazpaimon | -n | 06:01 |
| Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, im almost positive nokia suite is to blame for this not backing up thing | 06:02 |
| Sazpaimon | i dug out the logic board of my E71 (all thats left of it), and plugged it in, and managed to get nokia suite to detect it | 06:02 |
| Sazpaimon | backup still gave the same message | 06:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: lame :( | 06:03 |
| Sazpaimon | E71, now there's a phone that shows true nokia craftsmanship | 06:04 |
| Sazpaimon | this fucker's been to hell and back and it still works | 06:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, i have one too | 06:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | definitely a solid piece of hardware | 06:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though the iphone started to totally show nokia up soon after the e71 launched | 06:05 |
| Sazpaimon | on the bright side, nokia suite was able to import my smses from the phone and convert them into conversations | 06:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and nokia's product line took a dive right after the e71 | 06:05 |
| Sazpaimon | so I can sync them easily to the N9 now | 06:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. a zillion successively worse clones of the e71 | 06:05 |
| Sazpaimon | (S60 doesnt support threaded SMS) | 06:05 |
| Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, i dont know, E72 and E73 were allright | 06:06 |
| Sazpaimon | i almost got an E73, it was a tossup between that and an N900 | 06:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the e72 is pretty ugly, and both of those came out way after symbian stopped cutting it | 06:07 |
| Sazpaimon | thats true, and mostly why I decided to go with the N900 | 06:07 |
| Sazpaimon | oka so | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon | on my N9, can I just edit meta.db and remove all the old smses from the E71 that didnt import properly the first time? | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon | or will that not fly | 06:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | probably not a good idea to edit it with a text editor :p | 06:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can't you delete them through nokia suite or the messages app | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon | I mean with sqlite3 | 06:09 |
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| Sazpaimon | though I cant figur eout what table theyre in | 06:15 |
| Sazpaimon | there's like 400 of themn | 06:15 |
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| Sazpaimon | apparently my E71 started deleting my old sent messages | 06:27 |
| Sazpaimon | they only go back to october 2010 | 06:27 |
| Sazpaimon | my recieveds go back further | 06:27 |
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| Sazpaimon | like august 2009 | 06:27 |
| Sazpaimon | hmm, maybe I have an old backup somewhere | 06:27 |
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| Sazpaimon | i mean I had to have made backups when I flashed my E71 with new firmware since it didnt have OTA | 07:01 |
| Sazpaimon | but I cant find them on my old pc suite install | 07:01 |
| Sazpaimon | hm, maybe on my old laptop hard drive | 07:01 |
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| Corsac | ok, I'm not completely sure what the pr1.3 changed | 08:47 |
| Corsac | didn't see anything new/different, tbh | 08:47 |
| Corsac | and the mail download is not fixed | 08:47 |
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| vladest | is there is 1.3 for n950? | 09:05 |
| Arie | vladest: no | 09:06 |
| vladest | and planned to be? | 09:06 |
| Corsac | I'm unsure if I'm fully update though, accuweather won't install because of dependencies issue | 09:06 |
| Arie | Corsac: use Meecast | 09:07 |
| Corsac | that won't fix the underlying problem | 09:07 |
| Corsac | (and does Meecast have a transparent background in event view now?) | 09:07 |
| Arie | yes, that was fixed in PR1.3 | 09:08 |
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| Corsac | ha so it was not a Meecast/Accuweather issue but an event view one? | 09:08 |
| Arie | yes | 09:08 |
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| Corsac | fwiw, wxapp-restore prevents the upgrade of wxapp (pff) | 09:13 |
| Arie | yup | 09:14 |
| Arie | isn't that great? | 09:14 |
| Corsac | Arie: hem, but I was upgraded (except wxapp) and I still had a non transparent background on event view | 09:14 |
| Corsac | then after the wxapp upgrade it's fixed | 09:14 |
| Arie | it's fron p | 09:15 |
| Corsac | so maybe the fix is still in accuweather, but will benefit to meecast | 09:15 |
| Arie | its from pr1.3 | 09:15 |
| Arie | the commit was in the logs in mid feb | 09:15 |
| Corsac | hmhm, and shouldn't I have a messageserver running when checking mails?! | 09:17 |
| Arie | i think so | 09:17 |
| Arie | does it not work? | 09:18 |
| Corsac | mail client doesn't download anything | 09:18 |
| Arie | fenix isn't working, weird | 09:18 |
| Arie | remove your accounts and reinstall them | 09:18 |
| Corsac | already done it | 09:18 |
| Corsac | [ 1316.600006] init: xsession/messageserver respawning too fast, stopped | 09:19 |
| Corsac | that doesn't look very good | 09:19 |
| Arie | hmmm, weird | 09:19 |
| Arie | i have no idea how to deal with that | 09:19 |
| Corsac | I'll enable logging for message server and check | 09:21 |
| Arie | ok | 09:22 |
| Arie | personally pr1.3 is a major let down | 09:23 |
| Corsac | new issues? | 09:23 |
| Arie | no, just majorly underwhelming | 09:23 |
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| Corsac | like? | 09:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Corsac: there's damned close to zero user visible changes | 09:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with all the hype built up for this, no wonder people are underwhelmed | 09:26 |
| Arie | yes, it has no major changes that I can see | 09:27 |
| Arie | which is sad | 09:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | did you get inception 0.2 installed? corsac^ | 09:27 |
| Corsac | no | 09:27 |
| Corsac | why? | 09:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't forget the beep mode icon :p | 09:27 |
| Arie | itsnotabigtruck: like that changes my usage or something? | 09:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Corsac: because everyone should do so :p | 09:28 |
| Arie | itsnotabigtruck: god no I couldn't live with that :p | 09:28 |
| Corsac | itsnotabigtruck: I have to admit I'm a bit puzzled with your insistance about inception | 09:28 |
| Arie | Corsac: why, inception is awesome | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Corsac: a) more users = better, b) more users of inception = more potential users for anything built with inception | 09:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | = more incentive to build things that take advantage of inception | 09:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | = more incentive to build things that go outside the box | 09:29 |
| Corsac | well, maybe, but I have no use to it | 09:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is important when most people build things that are decidedly inside the box | 09:29 |
| Arie | Corsac: I heavily use it :) | 09:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also if you use the terminal ever you probably at least have some use for it | 09:30 |
| Corsac | why? | 09:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if only because the new ariadne feature is way more convenient than devel-su | 09:31 |
| Corsac | I don't do much thing as root | 09:31 |
| Corsac | like, pretty nothing | 09:31 |
| Arie | Corsac: i just shed a tear for you :p | 09:32 |
| Corsac | I actually use my phone as phone, calendar, mail (well, if it worked), maps¸ browser… | 09:32 |
| Corsac | it's a pretty standard, user-like usage :) | 09:32 |
| Corsac | hmhm, syslog doesn't have anymore the messageserver logs, but it's still not started | 09:32 |
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| denism | Corsac: the same for me, I have no enabled dev mode/allowed 3rd party apps at all, 'bt terminal' is enough if needed. | 09:34 |
| Corsac | bt terminal? | 09:34 |
| denism | btinput terminal - terminal available from Ovi Store | 09:35 |
| Corsac | mhmh, running strace messageserver, it seems that it spend its time removing file in .qmf/tmp/ | 09:35 |
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| Corsac | [4605] Jul 04 08:37:50 [Warning] Encrypted connect warnings: "'The root certificate of the certificate chain is self-signed, and untrusted'" | 09:38 |
| * Corsac sighs | 09:38 | |
| Arie | lol, bt-terminal = bluetooth terminal | 09:38 |
| Corsac | ok, seems that removing those thousand of tiny files in .qmf/tmp fixed the issue somehow | 09:39 |
| Corsac | at least running messageserver manually seems to work | 09:39 |
| Arie | sweet | 09:39 |
| Corsac | will try a reboot | 09:39 |
| Corsac | hmmh, but still, trying to change folder leads to fenix crash | 09:42 |
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| Corsac | maybe that's linked to memailsettings | 10:03 |
| Arie | could be | 10:04 |
| Arie | uninstall it and see if it makes a diff | 10:04 |
| rantom | Hmm | 10:06 |
| rantom | Is it just me or has Store gone terribly wrong after PR 1.3 update? | 10:06 |
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| phako | rantom: like taking ages for showing things and not showing comments at all? That's independent from PR1.3 | 10:07 |
| rantom | I, for one, am having continuous issues with even accessing any content from it, so even downloading apps/checking reviews has become very frustrating | 10:07 |
| rantom | phako: yes | 10:07 |
| phako | rantom: nah, was like that last week here already | 10:07 |
| denism | rantom: The same with PR1.2 at least for me | 10:07 |
| rantom | *sigh* thought so. Good job on the Q&A Nokia. | 10:07 |
| rantom | Yeah, I noticed issues during PR 1.2 too too but not as bad as with 1.3 | 10:08 |
| rantom | Servers going down or app itself malfunctioning? | 10:08 |
| denism | it depends to something, perhaps to the server on other side or something like that. Some is better (but still quite bad), some - worse | 10:08 |
| rantom | It's a conspiracy to get us to buy the next Windows Phones from Nokia! ;( | 10:09 |
| rantom | ;)* | 10:09 |
| phako | no, you shall buy the current one and then buy the next one as well to get wp8 | 10:09 |
| rantom | Heh | 10:09 |
| rantom | But in all seriousness, annoying behavior from Store. Can't really do anything about it than wait that Nokia, possibly, fixes it | 10:10 |
| Arie | or reflash and try again? | 10:11 |
| denism | as I know, the responsible deprtament is not in Finland - so there are some chances that it will be fixed in July :) | 10:11 |
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| rantom | Arie: Would do that if it was my N950 in case. This is my primary phone, N9, which I want to keep the warranty ongoing so not going to do that. Thanks though for suggesting | 10:12 |
| hiemanshu | finaland is closed in July? :P | 10:12 |
| rantom | The entire country? :D | 10:12 |
| hiemanshu | The entire month? :DD | 10:12 |
| phako | more or less, yes | 10:12 |
| rantom | No, its not | 10:12 |
| phako | at least corporate finland ;) | 10:12 |
| rantom | But yeah, bad timing since there's more or less holidays going on | 10:12 |
| Arie | rantom: flashing doesn't void your warranty... especially if you have an N950 | 10:12 |
| rantom | Arie: read again | 10:13 |
| hiemanshu | ah damn, that explains why I haven't got a reply from DDP yet | 10:13 |
| rantom | Arie: And it DOES void warranty | 10:13 |
| japh | what warranty | 10:13 |
| Arie | rantom: My N9 was flashed over 100x + and I sent it for warranty repair with no issues | 10:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, flashing doesn't void the warranty | 10:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't spread fud | 10:13 |
| rantom | japh: Warranty in N9 | 10:13 |
| rantom | Hmm | 10:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yes, it displays a warning that you *could* void your warranty | 10:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's if you use flasher to do something stupid | 10:14 |
| rantom | Ok | 10:14 |
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| rantom | That's what I meant | 10:14 |
| Arie | rantom: flashing N9 with open mode does that | 10:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | other than simply flashing the nokia image | 10:14 |
| rantom | Alright, just a bit of confusion then | 10:14 |
| Arie | Venemo: how's battery life on pr1.3? | 10:14 |
| rantom | But _clearing_ the device, as far as I know, does _not_ affect warranty | 10:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't use the reset function from the settings menu | 10:15 |
| rantom | Read: clearing=Select from Settings: Reset - Clear device | 10:15 |
| hiemanshu | rantom: flashing doesn't affect warranty either, since well it could have been done by a nokia center too | 10:15 |
| rzr | rantom, hi have you answered http://talk.maemo.org/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=697 ? | 10:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's well known to fubar your device and generally make it so you do need to flash it | 10:15 |
| denism | rantom: clearing the device almost does not do anything on rootfs | 10:15 |
| Venemo | Arie: dunno yet | 10:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also the clear function isn't comprehensive or secure | 10:15 |
| rantom | rzr: no and not going | 10:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's not really good for anything | 10:15 |
| Arie | Venemo: keep me updated, im watching mine closely too | 10:16 |
| rantom | Ok | 10:16 |
| rzr | rantom, ok can i list you on that page too ? | 10:16 |
| denism | itsnotabigtruck: clear function _is_ secure. it is using Secure MMC erasing | 10:16 |
| rantom | rzr: no | 10:16 |
| rzr | ok no problem | 10:16 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | denism: doesn't it run a bunch of clean up scripts, not erase anything | 10:16 |
| Arie | rantom: is that you estel? | 10:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | besides, since it's not comprehensive, it can't be secure | 10:16 |
| rantom | Arie: no | 10:17 |
| Arie | rantom: ok :) | 10:17 |
| denism | itsnotabigtruck: check /etc/init/wipe- something. So that bunch of scripts is just the 1st step | 10:17 |
| rzr | he is doctor no :) | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well anyway, rantom: try flashing it | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just do the main image | 10:17 |
| rantom | itsnotabigtruck: I'll skip that but thanks for all info, everyone | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | be advised that'll take out your apps and settings | 10:18 |
| rantom | Not really interested to flash my primary phone | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and your angry birds save | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 10:18 |
| rantom | It either works or it doesn't | 10:18 |
| rantom | I have my N900's for flashing images :) | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's really hard to screw up your n9 by flashing | 10:18 |
| rantom | Even so | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if there's a flashing problem, usually that's evidence of an underlying hardware problem | 10:18 |
| denism | yes, some of those /etc/osso-cud-scripts/ are even not executable, rootfs is not cleaned, so it is really better to reflash the device instead of Settings - Reset - 'Clear device' :) | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | most common flash errors are resolvable by simply flashing again | 10:19 |
| rantom | And that warning does not help to convince me flashing it, I find extremely annoying even when using the N950 | 10:19 |
| rantom | Slows quite a bit the booting progress | 10:19 |
| Corsac | Arie: not, doesn't change anything | 10:19 |
| rantom | Don't want that to my N9 | 10:19 |
| Arie | rantom: then don't complain about store working :p | 10:19 |
| rantom | Arie: I wouldn't say complain, I was just asking a general opinion about it | 10:19 |
| rantom | But if you want to interprent that as a complaint then go ahead | 10:20 |
| Arie | rantom: I know, I'm just messing with you | 10:20 |
| rantom | Yeah | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | having to flash in so many circumstances is definitely less than ideal, but using an n9 definitely means phoning on the edge | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | since it never really had a chance to be fully baked | 10:20 |
| rantom | itsnotabigtruck: I'd buy an Android-device if it'd want to flash my primary phone ;) | 10:20 |
| rantom | s/it'd/I'd/ | 10:21 |
| infobot | rantom meant: itsnotabigtruck: I'd buy an Android-device if I'd want to flash my primary phone ;) | 10:21 |
| rantom | But yeah, I got all the info that I needed, thanks all | 10:21 |
| rantom | I'll just wait for now | 10:21 |
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| rantom | Might drop the N9 to Nokia Care later if I decide to have the screen fixed due to the screen issues (green tint, possibly, and some burning in when rotating when using web-browser) | 10:22 |
| rantom | And the glass is a bit sharp on the right side, meaning that it is a bit upper than it should be | 10:22 |
| rantom | But yeah, that's all folks | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw if you bring your phone in to nokia care for a software problem, they'll just flash it | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with the exact same results as if you do it at home | 10:23 |
| rantom | Yep | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | except you have to wait a few weeks and they scratch up your phone :p | 10:23 |
| Arie | ahahahahahahha, gotta love Nokia care | 10:23 |
| rantom | That's why I'm going for hardware problems | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | fair enough | 10:23 |
| rantom | If they flash it I'll have to do a bit of talking, not going to accept that I'd have the warning about warranty being void in my N9 | 10:23 |
| Arie | ah oo | 10:24 |
| Arie | ok* | 10:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rantom: if you're talking about the disclaimer splash screen | 10:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that only appears if you go into open mode | 10:24 |
| rantom | itsnotabigtruck: ah, right | 10:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you do a full firmware flash that puts you into normal mode | 10:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | regardless of what you were in before | 10:25 |
| rantom | And that's what they do? | 10:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, they use a slightly different software program, but the exact same firmware images | 10:25 |
| * rantom is a bit slow now, coffee hasn't been drained properly yet | 10:25 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | navifirm downloads firmware images from the same place nokia care shops get them from | 10:25 |
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| rantom | Alright, so no warranty disclaimer, for what I know, good :) | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and there's no real need for open mode unless you want to use nitdroid | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which isn't compatible with pr1.3 yet, so... | 10:26 |
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| rantom | I'd assume that goes to restoring with Nokia Link too | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | might as well stay in open mode and toss on inception 0.2 | 10:26 |
| rantom | :) | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, and nokia link doesn't back up sms messages | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | keep that in mind | 10:26 |
| rantom | I did try inception quickly in my N950 | 10:26 |
| rantom | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, thanks, I don't care though about those | 10:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | try ariadne in the new version | 10:27 |
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| rantom | ariadne? | 10:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's like sudo | 10:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but for inception | 10:27 |
| rantom | Ah, ok | 10:27 |
| rantom | Might try if I have to re-flash the N950 | 10:27 |
| Arie | rantom: I'm wondering which device program you got your N950 from | 10:27 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | oh, and "might as well stay in open mode" ---> normal mode | 10:27 |
| rantom | Arie: keep wondering | 10:28 |
| Arie | rantom: at this point it's safe to assume you bought it with an answer like that | 10:29 |
| rantom | Arie: and that's wrong | 10:29 |
| rantom | I got it from Nokia, if you really must know | 10:29 |
| Arie | yes as did i | 10:29 |
| Arie | im just wondering the reason | 10:29 |
| Arie | thank you sir :) | 10:30 |
| rantom | Not really your business | 10:30 |
| rantom | No offense meant | 10:30 |
| Arie | none taken | 10:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | night | 10:31 |
| rantom | night | 10:31 |
| rantom | Arie: Actually, I'll say this much: I've got from Nokia "thank you for your contribution", so that'd sum it up | 10:32 |
| Arie | rantom: I appreciate your sharing | 10:33 |
| rantom | But that's about it -> | 10:33 |
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| Arie | rantom: Works for me | 10:33 |
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| Arie | rantom: personally I prefer the N9, the 950 is nice but still massively beta | 10:35 |
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| rantom | Yeah, same | 10:39 |
| rantom | That's one of the reasons why I bought N9 | 10:39 |
| Arie | i agree | 10:39 |
| Arie | was pr1.3 as much of a let down to you as it was to me? | 10:39 |
| rantom | I didn't really expect anything from it so no | 10:40 |
| rantom | I'd like to have CardDAV-supported but that's about it and not a big deal for me | 10:40 |
| rantom | Pro-tip: ignore rumours | 10:40 |
| Arie | i was hoping for a difference in user experience :) | 10:40 |
| rantom | You'll just get disappointed | 10:40 |
| Arie | there was none | 10:40 |
| rantom | One can always hope then.. | 10:40 |
| Arie | i agree with the rumours bit | 10:41 |
| Arie | also at this point since sotiris left nokia, it's clear that the N9 lifecycle is done | 10:41 |
| rantom | What I'd really want to know, related a bit more to the original topic, is if there's going to be 1.3 for N950? I'm though guessing that either the N950 is not in Nokia's interest anymore or they're pushing 1.4beta, IF there'd ever be one (I'd guess not) | 10:42 |
| rantom | Of course, I'm not expecting anyone here to answer to that since some of you are under NDA | 10:43 |
| denism | rantom: I really do not think that it will be. No any reasons anymore. | 10:43 |
| rantom | Yeah | 10:43 |
| Arie | Nope not happening | 10:43 |
| Arie | and I am under an NDA ;) | 10:44 |
| rantom | :D | 10:44 |
| rantom | ok | 10:44 |
| Arie | i can say with certainty it's done | 10:44 |
| rantom | Thought as much | 10:44 |
| Arie | pr1.2 is as far as the N950 goes | 10:44 |
| Arie | now it's up to the community to make it happen | 10:44 |
| rantom | And 1.3 as far as the N9 goes, probably | 10:45 |
| rantom | Arie: A very small community, if talking about N950-owners | 10:45 |
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| denism | rantom: N950-_only_ owners :) | 10:46 |
| Arie | yes I am | 10:46 |
| Arie | there's maybe 400 of us worldwide, tops if that | 10:46 |
| Arie | even i wouldn't waste resources on that | 10:46 |
| rantom | But yeah, good that that's settled. Not in my main interest anyway anymore, Harmattan on N950 that is, I'm more or less interested in Nemo Mobile | 10:47 |
| denism | Arie: it would be nice if Nokia will honor its dev. device and will replace N950s to N9 | 10:47 |
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| Arie | denism: why? | 10:48 |
| rantom | That'd be a downgrade, if you ask me | 10:48 |
| Arie | i have both | 10:48 |
| rantom | So do I | 10:48 |
| Arie | most of us received both | 10:48 |
| rantom | I'd never, for now, replace my N950 with N9 | 10:48 |
| Arie | or bought our N9's | 10:48 |
| Arie | and why would it be a downgrade? | 10:48 |
| denism | I have also both, yes :) like an option to upgrade to PR1.3 | 10:48 |
| Arie | i see it as an upgrade | 10:49 |
| Arie | not a downgrade | 10:49 |
| rantom | I got my N950 from the contributions earlier and bought the N9 | 10:49 |
| denism | Interesting - is there a special SDK for PR1.3? Most probably no, so there should no be even such PR1.3 for N950 | 10:49 |
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| Arie | i get lps, nfc, and a more complete product | 10:49 |
| Arie | how is it a downgrade? | 10:49 |
| rantom | Arie: well, to me it is. Screen would go smaller in size and I'd lose the keyboard | 10:49 |
| Arie | lps = low power screen | 10:49 |
| rantom | Well that's not really, IMO, a good reason to "upgrade" N950 to only N9 | 10:50 |
| Arie | the keyboard is lackluster at best and the screwn is the same size isn't i? | 10:50 |
| Arie | it | 10:50 |
| rantom | No | 10:50 |
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| rantom | Screen is over 4", IIRC, in N950 | 10:50 |
| rantom | N9 is 3,9", IIRC | 10:50 |
| denism | rantom: for official images - keyboard is almost unusable, as the main screen is mostly portrait locked | 10:50 |
| rantom | denism: Maybe so but in my use I'd rather use the hardware keyboard | 10:51 |
| Venemo_N9 | rantom, N9 is 3.5", N950 is 4.0" | 10:51 |
| Arie | i don't agree with upgrading its more like complementary | 10:51 |
| rantom | Venemo_N9: I'm pretty sure N9 is more than 3.5" | 10:51 |
| Arie | Venemo_N9: N9 is 3.9" | 10:51 |
| rantom | I'll check, moment | 10:52 |
| denism | anyway, I do not like N950 because I have used more than 5 of them, and every device's display got a lot of dead pixels on bottom. | 10:52 |
| rantom | Yeah, 3.9" | 10:52 |
| rantom | http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/n9/specifications/ | 10:52 |
| rantom | And I like the metallic feel that the N950 has :) | 10:53 |
| Arie | denism: never noticed that | 10:53 |
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| Arie | rantom: i agree, i love the metallic feel | 10:53 |
| Venemo_N9 | ok | 10:53 |
| rantom | In reception/call/phone-call quality N9 wins, hands down | 10:53 |
| denism | Arie: you are lucky :( Perhaps my fingers are 'special', do not know :( | 10:53 |
| Venemo_N9 | yes it's 3.9" | 10:53 |
| Venemo_N9 | soory I mistyped it | 10:53 |
| rantom | denism: I have backlight bleed in my N950 | 10:54 |
| Venemo_N9 | Arie, rantom ^ | 10:54 |
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| rantom | Venemo_N9: Yeah, thanks | 10:54 |
| rantom | denism: But I don't want to go to Nokia to have it swapped for another unit, not really worth it, since it's not my primary device | 10:55 |
| rantom | If they'd even swap it | 10:55 |
| rantom | In short: not worth the trouble to swap it to another one | 10:55 |
| Venemo_N9 | they would yes | 10:55 |
| Arie | if it was received from an official channel yes | 10:55 |
| Arie | if not, no | 10:55 |
| Venemo_N9 | yep | 10:55 |
| rantom | Well it was received from Nokia so | 10:56 |
| Arie | you're good :) | 10:56 |
| rantom | :) | 10:56 |
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| rantom | Though if Elop would see me he'd probably swap it to Lumia 900... | 10:56 |
| Venemo_N9 | lol | 10:56 |
| rantom | "Here, have another device that has an OS that won't be upgraded more than once for _sure_" | 10:57 |
| Arie | personally if the N950 has a super amoled, nfc, an lps, an fmtx, and was clockes at 1.3ghz, i'd keep that for at least 3-5 years | 10:57 |
| rantom | Yeah, I'd take that deal any day of the week... /sarcasm | 10:57 |
| rantom | Arie: You're living in an alternative dimension | 10:58 |
| Arie | im just stating what it lacks :) | 10:58 |
| Arie | everything else about it is nothing short of awesome | 10:58 |
| rantom | Well I do agree with the NFC and LPS but I'd like to have work to be done with the keyboard, it's not that great in Harmattan. I'd more or less be interested in seeing Harmattan being more actively updated | 10:59 |
| rantom | None of those are really going to happen | 10:59 |
| macmaN | how safe is it to change the n9 repo 005 -> 001 | 10:59 |
| Arie | rantom: you mean hwkb? | 10:59 |
| rantom | Arie: Yes | 10:59 |
| Arie | macmaN: safe enough | 10:59 |
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| Arie | ah what do you mean by more work done on it then? | 11:00 |
| rantom | And since we're talking about dev-device I'd like to see some sort of listing for repositories | 11:00 |
| rantom | If N950 would go to production as end-user device I'd care less abour repositories | 11:00 |
| rantom | about* | 11:00 |
| Arie | rantom: i know, it's massively confusing as it is | 11:00 |
| rantom | Off-topic: is there even a good alternative to N9 with LPS? All I can think of would be E7 | 11:02 |
| Arie | Uhhh, there is no alternative to n9 | 11:02 |
| rantom | :) | 11:02 |
| Arie | i have the pureview 808 and symbian makes me cringe | 11:02 |
| rantom | I'd buy the 808 only for the camera | 11:02 |
| rantom | And I do mean _ONLY_ for the camera | 11:03 |
| Arie | i agree with that sentiment | 11:03 |
| Arie | that's all it's really worth | 11:03 |
| rantom | I don't even read, for now, reviews about it considering the OS | 11:03 |
| Arie | i wish there was a pureview meego device, that would have shut people up for a long time | 11:03 |
| rantom | We already know Symbian is not that good, no need to beat the dead horse anymore | 11:03 |
| Arie | evert review complains about the os and praises the camera | 11:04 |
| rantom | One can wish :P | 11:04 |
| Arie | every* | 11:04 |
| Arie | if i wish hard enough, it may happen :p | 11:04 |
| Venemo_N9 | macmaN, bricked my N9 yesterday | 11:04 |
| Venemo_N9 | LOTS of conflicting packagea | 11:04 |
| rantom | Ugh, that reminds me of the AccuWeather that was shipped with Pr 1.3... | 11:05 |
| Arie | Venemo_N9: really? so there are major differences between pr001-pr005? | 11:05 |
| Venemo_N9 | no | 11:05 |
| Arie | accuweather sucks, install meecast | 11:05 |
| rantom | Couldn't get it installed since Restore AccuWeather and AccuWeather are not the same apps, AFAIK | 11:05 |
| rantom | Arie: I did | 11:05 |
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| Arie | uh, then im confused what do you mean venemo | 11:06 |
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| rantom | I don't like though the fact that you need to enable Installing from unknown sources to install the Feeds-view icon | 11:06 |
| Venemo_N9 | but there are packages whose name ends with 005, and they conflict with those whose name ends with 001, and apt can not figure out what to do about it | 11:06 |
| rantom | Sounds kind of shady to me | 11:06 |
| rantom | And I don't even know how it keeps the weather in that icon updated, since I have internet-connection off | 11:07 |
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| Arie | Venemo_N9: ah ok thank you for the explanation | 11:08 |
| denism | there might be a difference in some low level files, like different cellular modem firmware. | 11:08 |
| Arie | that is what i thought too | 11:08 |
| Arie | hence why i wanna flash pr001 on my n9 vs 005 | 11:09 |
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| vladest | guys, any chance to get pr 1.3 on n950? | 11:13 |
| denism | by http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85234 - seems PR1.3 is really useful :) | 11:13 |
| Arie | vladest: No | 11:14 |
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| macmaN | changed my 005 -> 001. new app versions appear, PR1.3 still doesnt. where does that come from i wonder. | 11:15 |
| denism | macmaN: there is no newer mp-harmattan-...-005 on 001 repository | 11:15 |
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| Arie | lol | 11:15 |
| macmaN | blehz | 11:15 |
| macmaN | i don't want to reflash the image anymore, too slow to get everything back | 11:16 |
| Arie | just use navifirm | 11:16 |
| Arie | and reflash | 11:16 |
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| macmaN | ok so anyway. i guess there isnt a way to force this :/ | 11:17 |
| macmaN | (OTA) | 11:17 |
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| Arie | yup, no need | 11:17 |
| Corsac | any idea how to debug a fenix segfault? (I can't attach to a running process and running from terminal, the process detach itself | 11:24 |
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| cityLights | can anyone please help me remove remove previous email accounts? | 11:57 |
| cityLights | I remove an account then re-define it, yet it doesnt sync | 11:58 |
| cityLights | I am seeking the command to remove it from the sqlite | 11:58 |
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| Avengence | cityLights: when you remove the accounts, try removing the .qmf folder as well (its the mail cache dir) and reboot your phone. then add new accounts | 12:16 |
| cityLights | let me test this | 12:16 |
| Avengence | you dont always need to remove the cache dir, but you definitely need to reboot after removing accounts and before adding new if you are having the problem that no email is flowing in | 12:17 |
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| cityLights | Avengence: 1. is this a known bug? 2. where is the .qmf folder? | 12:20 |
| Avengence | I'd say it's known. it's happened to me and others. usually a gmail account acting up (always in my case and some have confirmed that to me) and just removing that one can be enough to fix the rest | 12:22 |
| Avengence | basically, some corruption causes the messageserver to not start at boot. you can go run it, but it'll eventually get sick and die, possibly usaing 100% cpu then, so better to clean the mess | 12:23 |
| Avengence | with th gmail account deleted, reboot and test other, if they work, good. if not, then remove qmf dir and reboot again, then it should be working and its safe to add back the gmail account | 12:24 |
| Avengence | in your home folder on the phone there is the .qmf directory for mail cache. if you completely remove it, the startup scripts will remake it on next boot so you have a fresh start, but then you have to redownload messages on all accounts, hence the suggestion to try just removing the gmail account first (should clean up everything to do with the account) | 12:25 |
| cityLights | ok | 12:25 |
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| cityLights | regarding the last update I got yesterday, where can I find its change log? | 12:36 |
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| denism | cityLights: official one: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Nokia_firmware_change_logs#N9 | 12:37 |
| cityLights | thanks | 12:38 |
| radiofree | quality change log entry there | 12:43 |
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| cityLights | is it just one guy in nokia maintaining the n9? | 12:44 |
| Avengence | the reason it doesnt work when you don't at least reboot with the acci like how the public bugzilla closed so we cant even see what tickets are closed now since thats only on the internal bug tracker | 12:45 |
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| Lava_Croft | hahaha 1.3 changelog | 12:53 |
| Lava_Croft | looks like an Apple changelog | 12:53 |
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| Avengence | Lava_Croft: it's slightly better than that. it doesn't just say "This is awesome. BOOM" | 12:56 |
| Lava_Croft | it has 5x more improvements than the usual 200 improvements that apple offers | 12:57 |
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| b00^wk | clock_gettime(CLOCK_REALTIME <-- failes to compile on my harmattan | 12:59 |
| b00^wk | clock_realtime, should be defined for all implementations, what am I missing ? | 12:59 |
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| chem|st | ~update | 13:56 |
| infobot | rumour has it, update is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 | 13:56 |
| chem|st | ~changelog | 13:56 |
| infobot | changelog is probably dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile whatever.deb | tar xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz' | gzip -d | less | 13:56 |
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| flux | so, any severe regressions with the new release? | 14:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | don't see | 14:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | what is pitty that AFAIK not all bug fixes where merged | 14:38 |
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| ZogG_laptop | i mean from what i read before 1.3 and after i heard from few nokians "that was fixed in internal" and "do not know if they inculuded it" | 14:39 |
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| marsje | what if Nokia Link does work to make a back, can I do it with scp, and if yes, what directories should I copy? | 14:44 |
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| Corsac | and as we weren't really able to report any bug in pr1.2, some of them are not fixed | 14:50 |
| heymaster | meego on raspberry pi? | 14:55 |
| heymaster | possible? | 14:55 |
| jonni | meego maybe, harmattan no. | 14:55 |
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| heymaster | jonni: thanks don't own any harmattan device. just got raspberry pi | 14:56 |
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| jonni | heymaster: with pi you most likely just want to use qt5 and not meego :) | 15:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh, now i got what does twitter's timeline means | 15:05 |
| heymaster | jonni: any possibility to test harmattan app on Pi (it's ARM, harmattan emulator is so slow) ? :-) | 15:06 |
| heymaster | http://www.meegoexperts.com/2012/03/raspberry-pi-case-study-deploying-qt-apps-generic-linux-devices/ | 15:06 |
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| jonni | heymaster: not easily, there doesnt exist qt4.7.4 port to pi, only qt5 version. | 15:08 |
| jonni | but yes in theory you can make qt5 qml app which is almost like harmattan app, but you need to rename the imports | 15:09 |
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| heymaster | jonni: thanks. I will stick with harmattan emulator | 15:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok, so i have listview in qml. and i parse json reply from server. the reply has array of posts and i apply them one by one and post, but the problem is that posts may be different and may have different data, for example photo post has img url, while others do not. and the problem here is that i append them all together and sometimes it has that data and sometimes it doesn't and when it doesn't it breaks the whole thing when appending ( i assume | 15:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: you may try mer + some gui if there is there for Pi | 15:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: btw where did you buy it? | 15:11 |
| heymaster | ZogG_laptop: got from RS delivers | 15:12 |
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| jonni | heymaster: and depending on your graphis card, you might get a bit faster experience if you switch from sw rending to opengl in the emulator (its a qt creator setting). | 15:12 |
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| pa | jonni, are you still in nokia? | 15:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | Elleo: you got popular | 15:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | pa: afaik he is but afaik not meego related stuff | 15:16 |
| jonni | pa: still for 2 months or so. | 15:16 |
| jonni | I'm doing Qt releated stuff and not harmattan :) | 15:17 |
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| ZogG_laptop | jonni: do you have ideas to my prev question or i was not clear (as it's hard to explain =\ ) | 15:22 |
| jonni | didnt understand the question, I would suggest #qt-qml channel for that. | 15:22 |
| shanttu | greetings. dist-upgraded to pr 1.3 using terminal and now (after reboot) there's a lot of stuff to be autoremoved. How do i know it's safe to remove them? http://pastebin.com/5Kw26Nj1 | 15:24 |
| jonni | shanttu: that will brick your devide, you shouldnt have used dist-upgrade | 15:25 |
| pa | jonni, but will they kick you out, or you quit on your own? | 15:26 |
| shanttu | jonni, hmm. Had some problems and followed someone's advice. Any suggestions how to continue? | 15:26 |
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| pa | i mean, unless they are really shutting down Qt too, why would they fire you? | 15:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | shanttu: i think i used dist-upgrade last time, did you do update and upgrade after reboot? | 15:31 |
| shanttu | ZogG_laptop, good point. Not yet. | 15:31 |
| shanttu | WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! libgpg-error0 libpixman-1-0 | 15:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | shanttu: did you run update and than upgrade and that's the error? | 15:34 |
| shanttu | ZogG_laptop, -u upgrade | 15:34 |
| shanttu | That problem persisted bofore upgrading as well. Another error is with system-ui. I had restircted system-ui installed previously | 15:35 |
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| ZogG_laptop | shanttu: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade | 15:38 |
| jonni | 1st you need to change system-ui from com.nokia.maemo/local to com.nokia.maemo, otherwise you will fail always (or do a full reflash with flasher). | 15:39 |
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| jonni | (and as inception is to blame for that you can get help to your problem in #inception). | 15:40 |
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| shanttu | jonni, thanks. Didn't recognize it had to do with inception. | 15:42 |
| shanttu | ZogG_laptop, thanks for your help | 15:42 |
| jonni | yep if you can any of the system packages replaced with /local, the upgrade to pr1.3 will fail, you first need to replace /locals back to non-locals before upgrade will continue. | 15:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | shanttu: be careful i had to reflash yesterday as i didn't follow itsnotabigtruck's instruction, but it's here in log if you want to see it | 15:44 |
| shanttu | what i did was remove inception before upgrading and installed 0.2 after reboot. | 15:45 |
| jabis | ~log | 15:47 |
| infobot | All conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. | 15:47 |
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| shanttu | jabis, =) | 15:47 |
| jabis | shanttu, just check out yesterdays log and search with "ariadne accli -c tcb" to see the whole commotion :) | 15:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | shanttu: after changing file REHASH info, otherwise you'll brick device, check what itsnotabigtruck told me and what i did wrong!!! | 15:50 |
| jabis | yeh - avoid doing it wrong ^^ | 15:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | jabis: =) | 15:53 |
| jabis | well I didn't do anything wrong and I still had to reflash x) so whatever you do - be prepared for that option :D | 15:54 |
| jabis | now I'm digging up logs - where did the update fail | 15:54 |
| shanttu | just doing something i don't like.. But will try my best to avoid flashing | 16:02 |
| Arie | jonni: how is inception responsible for shanttu's problem, i would assume its the unrestricted system ui that ends in +0m7 that people have been trying to get to work with +0m8 | 16:02 |
| jonni | Arie: because /local has higher trust level than com.nokia.maemo, if inception would install as com.nokia.maemo, then upgrade to 0m8 would succeed just fine. | 16:04 |
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| Arie | i upgraded just fine to pr1.3 from 1.2 and i have a ton of stuff incepted though | 16:04 |
| jonni | (and inception could easily do it like that, but currently it incepts it in a way that upgrade fails9 | 16:05 |
| jonni | normal incepted stuff that doesnt replace system packages is fine, its just the system packages that will fail. Imho its just a design flaw of inception. If I would have done inception, then incepted packages would have been com.nokia.maemo, and everything would co-exist just fine. | 16:06 |
| Arie | ah | 16:06 |
| Arie | have you suggested it to itsnotabigtruck? | 16:07 |
| jabis | I prolly would have added argument options :) | 16:07 |
| jonni | ofcourse you can still change incepted packages to be com.nokia.maemo by hand, but for most people its just too hard and will lead to malfs :) | 16:07 |
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| jabis | incept --as com.nokia.maemo /my/awesome/package | 16:07 |
| Arie | hmmm, then why didn't he do it that way? | 16:08 |
| jonni | in my device I just solved it by allowing AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN export, that way I can install anything as com.nokia.maemo/ovi or as com.nokia.maemo, depending if I want to test ovi install or normal install. | 16:08 |
| jabis | itsnotabigtruck: ^ my suggestion | 16:08 |
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| Arie | so are you on open mode? | 16:09 |
| jonni | Arie: I am not :) | 16:09 |
| Arie | :) | 16:09 |
| Arie | jonni also did you ever figure out if changing zram (was it that) sped up the N9 more than a cgroups mod? | 16:10 |
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| jonni | Arie: ah you mean ramzswap (aka compcache), disabling if gives your 256MB more ram, so yes in some cases it gives you more speen than cgroups mod, but if you have 20 apps open simultaneously then compcache helps | 16:12 |
| jonni | Arie: so if you have less than 10, then disabling romzwap might be beneficial. | 16:12 |
| jonni | if=it | 16:12 |
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| Arie | could you explain how to do it as i never have more than 2 or 3 apps open at a time :) | 16:13 |
| shanttu | what is that "ariadne" on "ariadne vi /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf"? | 16:14 |
| Arie | ariadne is the inception command | 16:14 |
| shanttu | so it's not enough to edit the file on my pc with gedit and replace it? | 16:15 |
| Arie | i dunno | 16:15 |
| jonni | Arie: I have to dig the commands out of my logs... I'll get back to you on that. | 16:17 |
| Arie | ok, I'd personally prefer that to this fastern9 thing | 16:18 |
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| Lava_Croft | fastern9 gives visions of similar N900 things | 16:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Arie: do you have tumblr? | 16:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | or anyone here? | 16:24 |
| Arie | nope | 16:25 |
| Arie | i dont use tumblr, just gtalk and jabber | 16:25 |
| Arie | oh and twotter | 16:25 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Arie: do you mind to try this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336306/meemblr_0.0.1_armel.deb | 16:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Arie: there is small refresh button at the botton panel to test data | 16:27 |
| Arie | sure ill test it | 16:27 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Arie: it's just WIP of the WIP that shows only 2 types of posts and only my account (as i do not played with qoauth yet) | 16:29 |
| Arie | you on jabber? | 16:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes | 16:30 |
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| Arie | tell mw all this there :) | 16:30 |
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| ZogG_laptop | ok ,though it's nothing exclusive, it was on github all the time, just now added img posts, and it shows only the last img btw =) | 16:31 |
| shanttu | -sigh- system-ui reinstalled. Thanks for your help. | 16:32 |
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| azeem | Elleo: is status.net broken with PR1.3 or does it just not cope with a reinstall after flashing? | 16:44 |
| azeem | it asks me which service I would like to connect to; tapping identi.ca is a no-op (after it ponders a couple of seconds) | 16:44 |
| azeem | choosing a custom server lets me connect, but on next start it shows me the welcome screen again | 16:45 |
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| azeem | hrm, if I quit that it proceeds to the main screen but keeps on spinning trying to load the feed | 16:51 |
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| cityLights | Avengence: thanks - works | 16:53 |
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| Avengence | cityLights: no problem. that bug drove me nuts some months ago when I was in foreign country but has not happened again since I am home. you are 2nd person in 24hr period I gave sdame advice to for same problem, so it probably be in faq somewhere now | 16:57 |
| Avengence | probably SHOULD be I meant | 16:58 |
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| jabis | why not post it to the wiki then? | 17:13 |
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| azeem | hrm, the Store now seems to show "new in version xy" message, where those displayed with PR1.2 as well? | 17:19 |
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| deram | "Upgrade failed and this application is now unusable. Please try again or wait until new version of application has been released." | 17:21 |
| deram | nice that firefox shows update availlable, when in store it says don't upgrade, reinstall only | 17:21 |
| alterego | Yeah, I've had that for weeks. | 17:23 |
| Avengence | deram: i wondered about that. what is wrong with firefox that you have to uninstall and reinstall fresh rather than upgrade? everyth else can upgrade, so what the hell did they do wrong | 17:29 |
| Avengence | I also hit a problem some time ago with firefox when they released two versions in the span of a few days | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence: afaik it's some aegis things, but i might be wrong | 17:30 |
| deram | I have no idea.. | 17:30 |
| jonni | its because they didnt know howto do proper prerm script :) | 17:30 |
| Avengence | I got the update notice for the first, told it to download, the download failed part way through. when I retried later, the newer release was out, the old file was gone and every time I hit try again it failed. when I canceled the install and then wqent at it again, it showed the next version and worked | 17:30 |
| jonni | or proper preinst script, since you can basicly do everything there too | 17:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence: i just deleted firefox | 17:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's laggy | 17:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | i hope CSSU would bring new browser with tabs =P | 17:32 |
| Avengence | reasons to use firefox: download files of any type, copy text from webpages (ok, both can do that now), adblock | 17:32 |
| deram | firefox is laggy, but only thing working with some flash infested websites | 17:33 |
| Avengence | the browser tabs as windows works for me just fine, I find that better than how firefox handles it | 17:33 |
| Avengence | i guess teres also opera mini but I havent tried that. I never liked opera on any other platform | 17:34 |
| deram | I've seen opera in store, but since firefox is only one with flashplayer integration possible, why bother to install third browser to phone | 17:35 |
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| Avengence | I didnt know flashplayer was only for firefox, but that's another strike against opera I guess? | 17:36 |
| alterego | opera has quick and good HTML5 caps aiui | 17:36 |
| Avengence | hard to say, normally I only have flashplayer installed alongside flashblock (or let noscript do that) | 17:36 |
| deram | at least the flashplayer said firefox only in store when I installed it | 17:36 |
| Avengence | so is it a benefit to have flashplayer when I can't control it? I don't think I've ever used it on the phone | 17:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence: its benefit to have it, but not mandatory and a lot don't use it even on desktop ☺ | 17:38 |
| * RST38h moos | 17:39 | |
| Avengence | what I mean is, with the implications of having it installed, is it even worth the risk when I can't decide when it runs. hard to evaluate the impact as I'm already used to not having it | 17:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | Avengence: you can turn it off in firefox settings afaik or you can search for plugin for it to turn it on per item(the last one probably exists only for desktops) | 17:40 |
| deram | I only use firefox when I need flash enabled.. it's not my primary browser | 17:41 |
| Avengence | exactly, for desktop i can use flashblock or noscript to control when it runs, but neither of those existed as extensions for firefox mobile when I checked. adblock was the only extension I could find mobile version of all the extensions I use on desktop firefox | 17:41 |
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| Avengence | I open firefox to download files and for the rare page that looks broken in normal browser. I had used it more when the bundled browser couldnt copy text | 17:42 |
| Avengence | for all the places to add it, I'd actually rather they had spent the time to add the ability to copy text from a message in the email app instead of adding that ability to the web browser | 17:44 |
| jabis | I used firefox to gain access to some https-sites that didn't have the right path in their certs | 17:44 |
| jabis | no way around it in stock browser | 17:44 |
| Avengence | ugh | 17:44 |
| Avengence | for desktop firefox I use both ManInTheMiddleMe and Perspectives to help work around the clusterfuck that is SSL certs | 17:45 |
| Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: is this tumlr some kind of blog-service? | 17:46 |
| Kozzi | like blogspot | 17:47 |
| Avengence | I still find problems like firefox simply won't give you the button to override if it doesnt like the cert for contnt in an iframe. bust that frame and suddenly the whole expandable section with the button appears | 17:47 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Kozzi: kinda | 17:54 |
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| zeq | Hi guys, over at #maemo we're porting Fennec Qt/XUL to fremantle, but geolocation isn't activating with maps.google.com. Has anybody tried it with the Harmattan Fennec build? | 18:09 |
| zeq | Can anybody try it? | 18:11 |
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| Kozzi | I went to maps.google.com with fennec | 18:16 |
| Kozzi | and it asked me to share location, then pinpointed me to my current location | 18:16 |
| Kozzi | is this what yu mean ? | 18:16 |
| zeq | Kozzi: yes, thanks | 18:21 |
| zeq | Kozzi: did you have to enable it somehow? | 18:22 |
| zeq | or does it just work? | 18:22 |
| flux | kozzi, did it work with GPS accuracy? | 18:22 |
| zeq | thanks flux. Kozzi, that's really the question, is it using GPS? | 18:23 |
| Kozzi | eh the gps icon showed up so I guess | 18:25 |
| zeq | thanks Kozzi, so we need to find out why it isn't happing on fremantle :S | 18:26 |
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| Kozzi | the website asked me twice before it get the koordiate | 18:27 |
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| shanttu | have to flash anyhow =/. I'm following itsnotabigtruck's instructions. NaviFirmEx on Wine says "Failed to get SID from derver." | 18:30 |
| shanttu | server | 18:31 |
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| jabis | shanttu: wget http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1205/2811/7048829758/DFL61_HARMATTAN_40.2012.21-3_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin | 18:44 |
| jabis | straight link to the 001 code - all langs | 18:45 |
| shanttu | jabis, awesome. Thanks | 18:46 |
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| faenil | any solution found for n950 owners? | 18:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | faenil: Vodka. Plenty of Vodka. | 18:48 |
| faenil | lol | 18:48 |
| faenil | nothing on the horizon? | 18:48 |
| jabis | if CSSU is the horizon, then yes x) | 18:49 |
| jabis | yes (maybe) | 18:50 |
| faenil | 0%... | 18:50 |
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| faenil | oh come on nokia they're the same freaking phones xD | 18:50 |
| faenil | how long can it take to release the fw for n950 too? | 18:51 |
| faenil | we don't need testing :P | 18:51 |
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| faenil | jabis, no way to flash N9's image on the n950? | 19:04 |
| jabis | faenil: don't own an N950 so no idea :| | 19:04 |
| faenil | has anyone tried it? | 19:04 |
| merlin1991 | faenil: m9 image contains different hw drivers | 19:05 |
| merlin1991 | bound to fuck you up | 19:05 |
| faenil | mmm | 19:05 |
| faenil | up to that>? | 19:06 |
| faenil | what's so different? | 19:06 |
| faenil | chipset, cpu, gpu, all the same | 19:06 |
| merlin1991 | I don't remember the details | 19:07 |
| faenil | ok | 19:07 |
| heymaster | Why Qemu harmattan emulator is so slow ? (I thought Android emulator was slow). I can't use it on Linux or OS X | 19:10 |
| heymaster | :/ | 19:10 |
| heymaster | NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256 MB of memory shared with the system. | 19:11 |
| jabis | wasn't there at some point another harmattan emulator? | 19:11 |
| heymaster | 8GB RAM | 19:11 |
| jabis | but QEMU is really slow for me too | 19:11 |
| jabis | I test on the device | 19:11 |
| heymaster | i don't own device just thought is good to write for summer competition | 19:12 |
| heymaster | app | 19:12 |
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| Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: Impressive howquickly itsnotabigtruck found the new hole | 19:16 |
| Jaffa | itsnotabigtruck: Would be interesting to know the [process y0u use. | 19:16 |
| heymaster | http://cl.ly/0Q0k1f0t2a0h11411S0U << how to close this app ? 1.2 version | 19:16 |
| Elleo | ZogG_laptop: I got popular? | 19:18 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Elleo: yes your video is announced on TMO =P | 19:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | and on meegoexperts blog | 19:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: afaik he has it way before pr1.3 | 19:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: and i think it's opensource, isn't it? | 19:21 |
| Elleo | ZogG_laptop: aha, heh | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Jaffa: that's classified :P | 19:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: is pr 1.4 there? | 19:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 19:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: btw your app is opensource right? | 19:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | uh huh | 19:25 |
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| jabis | itsnotabigtruck: you saw my little proposition? add --as flag for incept :) (to set the source) ex. incept --as com.nokia.maemo /my/fabulous/package | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jabis: yeah | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not a bad idea | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it also isn't very easy based on how inception currently works | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pasiv sets aegis up so that any package with a particular 'local signature' gets put into the all-access source com.nokia.maemo/local | 19:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | incept puts that local signature on a package and installs it | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it can only do one source at a time | 19:31 |
| jabis | yeh - I dug up the pasiv script ^^ | 19:31 |
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| jabis | what're the main differences with permissions in com.nokia.maemo vs /local | 19:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: maybe you can change it after inception? i mean install it as /local and than change it back to original like commands you sent me? | 19:34 |
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| Sniper_swe | if i decide to flash 1.3 i dont need to flash whole emmc yes? | 19:51 |
| jabis | yes | 19:54 |
| jabis | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTF2MiZE2sU&feature=relmfu | 19:54 |
| jabis | whoops | 19:54 |
| jabis | wrong chan | 19:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sniper_swe: you can do it only for rootfs | 19:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | ~flash | 19:55 |
| infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing_N9 | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sniper_swe: ^ | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sniper_swe: i would suggest img tht was posted here earlier | 19:55 |
| Sniper_swe | i know how to but thanks:) which img?:) | 19:55 |
| Sniper_swe | i'm going to flash a 001 image instead of my 339 shit:p | 19:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sniper_swe: the global 001 was posted here | 19:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | jabis : shanttu: wget | 19:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1205/2811/7048829758/DFL61_HARMATTAN_40.2012.21-3_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin | 19:57 |
| Sniper_swe | ok. i usaully use northen eu 001:) | 19:57 |
| jabis | the northern europe uses the same image - only emmc stuff are different afaik | 19:59 |
| Sniper_swe | seems when nitdroid installed i need to flash anyway i might aswell go for 001 | 20:00 |
| Sniper_swe | true | 20:00 |
| Lava_Croft | jabis: yeah, same for france/benelux | 20:00 |
| Lava_Croft | only emmc image differs (in name) | 20:00 |
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| niwakame | re | 20:01 |
| Lava_Croft | idk about any actual differences | 20:01 |
| jabis | well - it's the same DFL61_* in navifirm - so I doubt there are any :) | 20:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: oh hey | 20:01 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: hi :) thought you'd be here sooner or later | 20:02 |
| niwakame | didn't know my BNC was still connected :P | 20:02 |
| heymaster | OK thanks to all. Can't code app with Harmattan QEmu emulator so won't be in competition. Next time :) | 20:02 |
| Sniper_swe | anyone know of a good command to export list of apps | 20:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: i'm always here | 20:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: where did you get bnc? | 20:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: why not? | 20:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: need help? what app btw? | 20:04 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: shellfire, it's around 4 euros per 6 months | 20:05 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: think it's a German company, though | 20:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | Germans | 20:05 |
| niwakame | You have to deal with one now :P | 20:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: ok i made some readme and todo | 20:06 |
| heymaster | ZogG_laptop: Just can't use qemu .. don't know how to explain | 20:07 |
| jabis | Sniper_swe: define export list of apps? | 20:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: what i think is we need to finish and make pretty the posts types | 20:07 |
| jabis | Sniper_swe: you mean installed packages on your phone? | 20:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: not wokring or can't use? | 20:07 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: done anything with accounts-sso before? | 20:08 |
| jabis | Sniper_swe: as root dpkg --get-selections > installed_pkgs.txt | 20:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: not good idea | 20:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: i made account for oauth2 but no idea how to get token from it, as all data it has is useless and probably we need to use itself to request and so on, but i have no idea how to do it | 20:11 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: I will check for tumblr API specs later. For accounts integration we can check the code for Wazapp | 20:12 |
| niwakame | check check :P | 20:13 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: https://github.com/tgalal/wazapp | 20:13 |
| Sniper_swe | thx all:) | 20:13 |
| shanttu | wtf cannot enable developer mode: can't install, installation package not found | 20:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: the API is using oauth or xauth, second one is not avilable after pr1.2 and has no source. wazapp wouldn't help i think as it's other protocol | 20:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: i made an account for imgur but it wouldn't work | 20:14 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: I'm just talking about accounts integration with harmattan in regards to Wazapp | 20:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | i requested frals few times to amke a dummy example, but he is busy probably | 20:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: yeah i know | 20:15 |
| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: I've looked at it yesterday, seemed pretty comprehensible. But yeah, I'm really missing a good documentation on this | 20:16 |
| jabis | shanttu ? after what? reflash? does your about information show the right kernel info? | 20:16 |
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| niwakame | ZogG_laptop: all the wiki pages just read like "Use this XML file then *mumbles* and voila, it works!" | 20:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: there are few accounts things and you mixing them | 20:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: you are talking about webupload plugin for account | 20:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm talking about provider plugin and xml | 20:17 |
| niwakame | Uh thought I was talking about that, too | 20:18 |
| heymaster | ZogG_laptop: ok.. what was my fault. I will work on app. If do something will write :) | 20:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | niwakame: we need to find the way to make requests using the provider | 20:19 |
| niwakame | let's drop in a query | 20:19 |
| shanttu | jabis, yes after reflash. | 20:20 |
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| ZogG_laptop | heymaster: you can always here people to test it btw | 20:20 |
| shanttu | jabis, after restoring a backup developer mode 'switch' was on but i couldn't see terminal or sdk-tools so i tried re-enabling it | 20:23 |
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| Sazpaimon | gotta freeze my old laptop hard drive to see if my old E71 backups are on it | 20:26 |
| jabis | shanttu: try whether the sshd is still running | 20:27 |
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| jabis | shanttu: something in your backup borked - since it's 1.2 and now you're on 1.3 | 20:28 |
| shanttu | jabis, port closed. Could be. | 20:29 |
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| jabis | shanttu: nokia store should have the terminal up for download | 20:33 |
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| jabis | search for meego-terminal | 20:33 |
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| jabis | version I have installed is 0.2.2+0m6 | 20:35 |
| kimju | there is also "MTermite" in store as a free app. it seems to be newer version of the meego-terminal | 20:37 |
| shanttu | i couldn't install fingerterm at all, but now it's all good. very strange | 20:42 |
| jabis | shanttu: I'd reflash just to be on the safe side | 20:44 |
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| jabis | or before reflashing, I'd check out the logs | 20:46 |
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| rantom | I'm a bit lost. I've installed the Gtalk from Store and it works, in Talk, rather fine but for some reason I can't find a way to enter linebreak without copying reply from contact that had it already. Am I just missing something? | 22:01 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | rantom: installed the gtalk from store? | 22:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the n9 firmware has gtalk support "out of the box" | 22:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's a package you can install from the store that enables video call support, which is for some reason disabled by default | 22:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (it doesn't actually install anything that facilitates video calling, just edits a config file) | 22:14 |
| rantom | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, I installed that one then. Anyway, question remains | 22:15 |
| rantom | I managed to do a linebreak in Pregrine but still not able to do that in the stock Conversations app, applies only, AFAIK, to Google Talk conversations | 22:15 |
| rantom | I do have two Send-buttons though. Using the linebreak-button from Swype just sends the message, too, so it acts as a Send, too | 22:16 |
| godofwar424 | Need some help with a script, any linux users here got script experience? | 22:18 |
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| chem|st | godofwar424: which kind? | 22:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | godofwar424: little bit | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i failed to pass interview for new job as i was asked to make server that can get commands from telnet and return them thru telnet on bash though =) | 22:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | i made server but failed to return output =) | 22:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | and keep connection always alive | 22:25 |
| godofwar424 | I posted it on tmo awhile ago but i don't think it caught attention with all the p1.3 stuff going on | 22:25 |
| godofwar424 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85258 | 22:26 |
| godofwar424 | Its a script to check if an application is running, and if not restart the app, so I can run it at a 30 minute interval and keep Wazapp alive when its crashed from loss of signal | 22:27 |
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| chem|st | godofwar424: I know how but I wont support anyone supporting that shit... | 22:29 |
| chem|st | godofwar424: you need to check for PID then restart if not there... tada... | 22:30 |
| chem|st | that is how far you will get with me on wazapp... | 22:30 |
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| godofwar424 | What if I change it for say the messaging app?? :D | 22:31 |
| godofwar424 | Will you help me with that :P | 22:31 |
| godofwar424 | Also its more for me wanting to learn how to get it done, I can't figure out what check I need to do to give me a 1 or 0 if that particular pid is running :s | 22:32 |
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| rigo | anybody a clue how I can find out why fenix is crashing when I touch on "folders"? | 22:48 |
| rZr | http://rzr.online.fr/icbm/26.357865,127.783782# N26d21m28sE127d47m1s # Did #japan send a signal to #batman to fix their #powerplant ? | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: DUIH WUT? | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! <myapp; do :; done | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! <myapp>; do :; done | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the <myapp> throws error on unsolicited quit | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | but honestly you should use dsme for that | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's made for that kinda stuff | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | also pretty usual autostart.desktop files will cause respawning of quit apps (at least on fremantle HD they did) | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then you never ever quit that app on purpose (I hat that setup for xchat, until it annoyed me) | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/hat /had / | 22:56 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: but then you never ever quit thad app on purpose (I hat that setup for xchat, until it annoyed me) | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh! | 22:56 |
| godofwar424 | Is this all about my script Doc?? | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | godofwar424: yur concept is completely flawed, you don't check for pid's, as in unix there's the concept of child processes that automatically get monitored by parent process | 22:57 |
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| godofwar424 | chem said to check for pids :( | 22:58 |
| godofwar424 | I was originally using the program name | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't check anything | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | shell is already doing that for you | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! <myapp>; do :; done | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! <myapp>; do echo "restarting myapp"; done | 22:59 |
| godofwar424 | Just type that into a script replacing myapp with wazapp | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're free to do that | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/<myapp>/whatsup/ | 23:00 |
| godofwar424 | But will it work lol | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you dunno, you better learn about shell scripts | 23:01 |
| godofwar424 | Thats why I came here in the first place to ask for help | 23:02 |
| godofwar424 | Right well that makes the app start | 23:03 |
| niwakame | godofwar424: you've done research on shell scripting before? | 23:03 |
| godofwar424 | how do I change that to while my app is NOT running it runs a command | 23:03 |
| godofwar424 | Ive made like 1 or 2 shell scripts on my N900 | 23:03 |
| godofwar424 | but it was so long ago I have forgotten, also it wasn't for this kinda thing, I researched this but my attempts failed | 23:04 |
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| tehdely | hiya | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | godofwar424: (how do I change that...) depends on what you actually want to achieve | 23:05 |
| tehdely | i'm gonna reflash my n9 with pr1.3 | 23:05 |
| tehdely | and i've been running in open mode | 23:05 |
| tehdely | if i want to flash it back into secure mode, i just need to make sure i get both firmware + emmc, right? | 23:05 |
| alterego | You don't need eMMC | 23:06 |
| alterego | You'll lose your data if you flash that. | 23:06 |
| tehdely | that's alright, i want a clean flush :) | 23:06 |
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| alterego | Well, flash everything then ;) | 23:06 |
| tehdely | in any case, that _will_ take me out of open mode, right? | 23:06 |
| tehdely | no more BSW when it starts up? | 23:06 |
| godofwar424 | DocScrutinizer: I want to run this script once every 30 minutes to check if an app is still running, and if its not, I want it to restart that app | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | so why would you want to wait 30min before restarting the app? | 23:07 |
| godofwar424 | Nooo, I want to check it is running every 30 minutes | 23:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | godofwar424: there's no need to poll for it | 23:07 |
| godofwar424 | the 30 minutes is secondary part | 23:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what DocScrutinizer is telling you to do is to run the program, wait for it to terminate, then run it again | 23:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in a loop | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 23:08 |
| niwakame | ^^ | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo itsnotabigtruck | 23:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that way there's no delay in between terminations and restarts | 23:08 |
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| godofwar424 | So what way is best for my outcome? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! <myapp>; do echo "restarting myapp"; done | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | or | 23:09 |
| Vromoth-N9 | Hi guys, is there any documentation on adding accounts to accounts? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ture; do <myapp>; echo "restarting myapp"; done | 23:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, do you know what exit code wazapp exits with in the crash case vs the normal case | 23:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | maybe check for that particular exit code and loop only then | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I didn't feel like going fancy | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | until he understood the very basics | 23:11 |
| godofwar424 | I see what your code does!! :P | 23:11 |
| godofwar424 | Im getting there albeit slowly lol, so basically once I run your code in a script, itll just wait until it closes and then reopen it and so on | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the first form only does that until the program quits with no error | 23:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the second form loops infinitely | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | (unless you've giveb a "set -e" cmd | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ) | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I leave it to you to figute how to spell "ture" right ;-D | 23:15 |
| godofwar424 | Hmmm well the loop doesnt bother me tbh, unless its going to be draining resources but I don't think such a simple request will be a battery killer | 23:15 |
| godofwar424 | or am i wrong yet again? :P | 23:15 |
| godofwar424 | I figured that out :P | 23:15 |
| Vromoth-N9 | What i meant was from a coders stand point. i want to add a new type of account to accounts. | 23:15 |
| niwakame | the loop should stuck at the execution point | 23:15 |
| niwakame | until the program exits | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | your app is the battery killer, esp when it quits immediately | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the loop takes up no resources while it's waiting for termination | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | the loop is harmless in itself | 23:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it actually takes less resources than the polling approach | 23:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this is assuming, of course, that your loop works correctly | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | WAAAAAY less | 23:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make sure there isn't a way to get it into a scenario where wazapp terminates just after it's launched | 23:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or the loop otherwise spins quickly | 23:17 |
| niwakame | uha | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | but actually you might want to look into what "dsmetool --help" tells you | 23:18 |
| godofwar424 | alright, I dont get that much drain from Wazapp tbh | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | dafaq they neutered dsmetool in HARM | 23:19 |
| godofwar424 | then again i got profilematic keeping me on GSM on idle and when using WiFi | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | just left a nonsensical line of advice in --help | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | bwahahaha | 23:20 |
| godofwar424 | lol | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | USAGE: dsmetool <options> | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Note that the <cmd> should include absolute path. | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | great, isn't it? | 23:20 |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: *knockknock* | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's dsmetool of fremantle: | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | USAGE: dsmetool <options> | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Note that the <cmd> should include absolute path. | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | -r --start-reset=<cmd> Start a process | 23:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | niwakame: yeah? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ... | 23:21 |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: heard you have a signon package somewhere on gitorious? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | on HARM dsmetool *has no* options that would take a <cmd> anymore | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | niwakame: yeah | 23:22 |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: I'm missing a dependency here in QtSDK due to madde config fubar | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not a deb package, but the source code | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, crap | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you need to set up scratchbox and build it | 23:22 |
| niwakame | naw, I just think its running a 1.0 env | 23:22 |
| niwakame | and that signon thing should be 1.2 | 23:23 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw you should consider using scratchbox anyway | 23:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the qt sdk is a tier 1 piece of garbage | 23:23 |
| godofwar424 | DocScrutinizer: You sure that its just not installed by default? Like how on the N900 wget was there by default whereas on the N9 you gotta install it | 23:24 |
| niwakame | *sigh* | 23:24 |
| niwakame | but you're right | 23:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's easy to use until something goes wrong, and something always goes wrong | 23:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then it's impossible to fix | 23:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also w/r/t dsmetool - what if you run it on harmattan with the fremantle syntax | 23:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they might have just stripped down the help text | 23:24 |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: so do I need the signon package when setting up scratchbox anyway? | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | godofwar424: nah, the dsmetool of harmattan got neutered, and they forgot that one line in helptext | 23:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | niwakame: scratchbox will have the pr1.0 signon packages from the start | 23:25 |
| niwakame | kk | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can then download the pr1.2 gpl source iso and put the source package files in your scratchbox and build them | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you want the absolute latest stuff | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can then take the output of that back over to madde if you so desire | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT? CHEERS higgs! | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or you can package your stuff the debian way and build your app inside scratchbox | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that makes it infinitely easier to upload to obs/appsformeego | 23:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer sends a kudoes at ... ? CERN? | 23:26 | |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: I don't think I need the bleeding edge stuff. But I'll set up scratchbox anyway | 23:26 |
| niwakame | itsnotabigtruck: TY :) | 23:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, 'higgs-like'...maybe be cautiously optimistic until real info hits | 23:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also niwakame: it's surprising how often you need the bleeding edge stuff :( | 23:27 |
| niwakame | *sighs again* | 23:27 |
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| niwakame | do we have a step-by-step for the whole process or should I do my usual brute-force-installing | 23:28 |
| niwakame | :P | 23:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | niwakame: it's pretty simple | 23:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | first you need to be in linux | 23:29 |
| ajalkane | It's not higgs. It's just some damn particle that has the same weight higgs supposed to have. I bet it's just a fat meson. | 23:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or have a linux vm | 23:29 |
| niwakame | I am | 23:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then you just download the installer from nokia and run it | 23:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and be patient, it downloads multi-gig files | 23:29 |
| niwakame | just skip the two hours part :P | 23:29 |
| niwakame | I've installed scratchbox before on other machine | 23:30 |
| niwakame | but I'm unsure about the 1.2 integration | 23:30 |
| niwakame | or is it the latest 1.2 then? with the installer? | 23:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i don't think there is any 1.2 integration | 23:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | due to nokia and its braindead policy | 23:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you want pr1.2 apis, you have to try to find source packages that provide those apis, build them, and install them into scratchbox | 23:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's possible to mix-and-match in most cases | 23:35 |
| niwakame | kay | 23:35 |
| niwakame | I'll keep this for tomorrow then | 23:39 |
| niwakame | First time installing scratchbox was like: "Oh hell yeah, I'm fired up! *start install* *scratches head* *wait* *make some coffee* *wait* -_-' *goes shopping*" | 23:40 |
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| heymaster | How to write settings for harmattan and for symbian in pro file? | 23:59 |
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