IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-07-03

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jonnitime to start photoshopping next pr releases, and then laughing on people who ask where to get it :)00:28
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jonniheh, I have to photoshop skype videocall app :)00:29
jonniand then make limited betatest announce thread - and see what happens ;-)00:30
jonnimaybe a bit too cruel joke00:31
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ZogG_laptopjonni: put it on twitter00:44
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bef0rdso PR1.3 is out?01:05
jonnibef0rd: nope.01:06
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jonnibut you can always dream about it :)01:09
ZogG_laptopjonni: the new rumors that few devs got email from ovi about update and few screenshots of people saying they have internal repo or something like that01:13
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rzrenough w/ twitter ...!/NeedADebitCard01:23
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ZogG_laptoprzr: people are morrons01:47
rzrso we are01:53
Lava_Croftcalling people morons while using incorrect spelling is just priceless01:56
Lava_Croftgood night!01:56
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: =P01:57
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: check rxr's link01:57
infobotZogG_laptop meant: Lava_Croft: check rzr's link01:57
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itsnotabigtruckis everyone sure that pr1.3 isn't out?03:18
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: is out already?03:22
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: you're asking me? you were just talking about it a page up03:23
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i saw few screenshots but not sure if it's true03:29
itsnotabigtruckwell, it looks legit, the question is whether it's from an actual public release03:30
itsnotabigtruckor if it's from somebody who has the internal repo like you suggested earlier03:30
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ZogG_laptopif it is it's the second version03:36
ZogG_laptoplogically it can't be per phone or something, it would depend on repo only, so if one would be updated we would see crazy TMO posts03:37
rzritsnotabigtruck, hi , do you plan to incept 1.3 too ?03:43
ZogG_laptoprebranded as "virginity lost" =)03:48
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itsnotabigtruckrZr: of course :p05:18
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beforditsnotabigtruck, is pr1.3 out? :P05:32
ZogG_laptopbeford: what about your lastfm thing?05:44
ZogG_laptopand did you get email from nokia about phone?05:44
befordhey ZogG_laptop , yea I contacted them and they havenot answered since past week05:45
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befordand no mail about phone, I suppose I need to publish it first05:48
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ZogG_laptopbeford: try to contac again/make different icon/talk to quim05:58
ZogG_laptopbeford: mine is stuck in customs05:58
ZogG_laptopit took 3 days of weekend to pass 3 countries and after it got to israel it's tuck there for few days with not much info there05:59
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befordhah that sucks, did they contact you?06:16
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iffsidDoes anyone know what to do when the touchscreen doesn't respond to touch input on the N9?06:19
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romaxadoes anybody here familiar with nitdroid and instructions about how to build it for N9?09:31
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rigoI would be interested too, but the devs aren't awake yet. I think you should ask your question again later09:39
dm8tbrthis is the wrong channel to ask about nitdroid though09:42
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jonniok, now pr1.3 is available in care servers...11:24
petteri so what does that mean?11:25
petteri at least I don't see it on my n911:25
jonniit means that you can flash it with flasher command. over the air updates will take some time.11:26
jonniand care servers dont have all the regions there yet, so you should wait anyhows.11:27
petteri ok, nice. Any news what is changed11:28
petteri at least PR1.1 seemed a bit faster than PR1.2, so getting that performance back would be nice11:28
kimjujonni, is there images for n950 too, or only for n9?11:28
jonnikimju: don't know, I havent checked public places.11:33
DocScrutinizerjonni: sounds all like closing down the site and final cleaning up11:42
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DocScrutinizeresp since
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phako"closing down the site" happened in march.11:53
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rigoI think there is a community of people wanting this to continue and there is perhaps some opportunity for all the thrown outs to pack together and get some software running on alternative hardware12:02
rigothis is how linux started12:03
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petteri i think alternative forum is needed asap12:15
rigoand alternative store12:16
DocScrutinizeryou really think nobody anticipated that and already is working on something?12:16
phakohas anyone managed to get nitroid to get wireless access?12:17
rigoDocScrutinizer, I hope people are working on something :)12:17
DocScrutinizerI hope council meanwhile managed to stop unproductive bitching&fighting mode and got into pace regarding some supplementary/auxiliary/alternative infra12:19
DocScrutinizernot only COBS12:19
DocScrutinizerbut also forum12:19
DocScrutinizerfor now it's unclear why tmo wouldn't continue, technically. Just Reggie seems not inclined to do that for community, once Nokia hit the sack. Needs further discussions with him, what are the reasons for this12:20
rigomake sure there is a working store for the ecosystem. This is central12:21
DocScrutinizerwell, for HARM I don't see a future for "store", since we don't possess Nokia's signing keys for all the aegis stuff12:22
DocScrutinizerHARM is built to die when Nokia pulls the plug12:23
DocScrutinizerthat'S basically the whole purpose of aegis12:23
rigoDocScrutinizer, the thing is to 1/ negotiate the keys out of Nokia and if that fails, create another shop and evolve the distribution with new keys and a new image12:25
DocScrutinizerhaha, nice12:25
DocScrutinizerhow are you going to sign the closed blobs?12:25
X-FadeCommunity has a key..12:26
rigoDon't understimate the power of negotiation12:26
DocScrutinizeron your 'new store'12:26
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: community has a key to sign the kernel of a community-based fiasco image?12:28
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: No, but does have one for a store.12:28
rigowhy not? If there is no central controlling power anymore, the key is the smallest question. Rather how to organize control to avoid android chaos12:29
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DocScrutinizerrigo: you still fail to see there's a signing key buried deep inside HARWARE of N912:29
DocScrutinizercommunity has no access to the other half of that cert key12:30
rigois there a TPM?12:30
X-FadeAnd basically there is nobody left to care about that.12:30
rigook, the TPM can generate a new key. Nokia is not supposed to still own my device12:30
rigoand according to the TCG specifications, if they are the sole entity being able to generate the key, they are owners12:31
DocScrutinizerrigo: even Nokians bricked their device hard, by messing with certs in TPM12:31
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rigoSure, I'm on the (now dormant) TCG Advisory Group. The TPM should be able to generate a new key12:33
DocScrutinizerrigo: what we got on OMAP HS is not exactly a TPM as specified by MS12:33
DocScrutinizerrigo: google for omap trustzone12:35
X-FadeThere are of course some aegis exploits that can be used, but that is not really a solid base for community distribution :)12:36
DocScrutinizerI'm not exactly expert for this stuff, but aiui user has no control whatsoever over this "TPM"12:36
rigohm, so there are proprietary hardware lockers. This is something that has to hit the media at some point12:36
rigoDocScrutinizer: the TPM has one vendor key. This key is used to generate another key that is then used for the chain of trust12:39
SpeedEvil'locked bootloader! See three sentance article on page 43 for more news'12:39
SpeedEvilWhich doesn't help at all if we can't generate the second key based on the vendor key12:39
SpeedEvilWhich we can't.12:40
rigoyes, but locked devices are then a thing that Brussels _loves_ to care for12:40
SpeedEvilThis will be why you can't buy a device with a locked bootloader in the EU.12:40
rigoI still believe you underestimate the negotiation power here. Because if they close it down, they can be pressured to not destroy it. Politics can come into play as they have laid off so many people, politicians may be keen to help in negotiations12:41
rigoSpeedEvil, I don't think there is a regulation yet. Your car's electronics are as locked. There is a way. I just can't detail this from the top of my head here and now12:42
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SpeedEvilThere is no existing redulation requiring open bootloaders. Or indeed any electronics in general to be open.12:47
rigoso there are e.g. forced licenses for a nominal fee, there are perhaps people helping to hack up the TPM to generate a new key for a new kernel and a full linux version (whatever called as I guess the name is protected) etc12:48
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SpeedEvilA political project to get laws enacted to enable this is quite offtopic. (and IMO unlikely to succeed unless you get _massive_ popular support, which is questionable)12:48
rigoSpeedEvil, this is not how politics work. You only need massive popular support if you're in a power relation with the politicians. Here you aren't . The politicians have to be convinced to help the thrown-outs. And this is likely to happen12:49
SpeedEvilYou need pipular support once the hardware makers lobbiests - apple included - kick in.12:50
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Lava_Crofthurry up pr1.313:07
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trxso there will be no update for n950?13:41
kimjutrx, no information about that, in one way or another.13:44
trxso its not offical, just talk13:44
trxgood, thanks13:44
X-FadeThat is very unlikely.13:44
azeemhas there been any talk about PR1.3 for N950?13:44
azeemexcept for people saying "That is very unlikely."13:45
jonnidont know yet13:45
japhwhy wouldn't the update for n9 work for us as well?13:45
arceanit works :)13:45
japhfor n950?13:45
japhwell, great then :)13:46
Lava_CroftI wonder if anyone can confirm any fix for the camera13:46
arceanright now, my n950 is PR1.3 powered13:46
trxarcean how?13:46
trxOTA ?13:46
Lava_Croftprobably flashed13:46
arceanyes, N9 repo13:46
Lava_Crofti dont think i have ever reload navifirm as much as today13:46
trxarcean and there are no problems with that?13:47
arceanno problems so far13:47
japhtrx, hurry up now13:47
azeemany changelog for PR1.3 available yet?13:47
japhso I too maybe dare13:47
arceanjust remember to remove mp-harmattan-rm680-pr13:47
trxjaph no need atm13:47
arceanand NOT to install mp-harmattan-001-pr13:47
trxi'll wait a bit, and then if i get no update i'll use n9 repo13:48
trxarcean thanks for the tip13:48
arceantrx, I've updated N950 to final 1.2 using this method :)13:48
japhI'm not thanking him prior to me seeing the phone boot again13:48
japh:-) jk13:49
arceantrx, no problem ;)13:49
japharcean, uh, what is it called exactly?13:52
arceanwhat is what called?13:53
Lava_CroftMaybe Nokia should roll out PR1.3 to the developed world first.13:53
kimjuis the "making a n950 to act like a n9" procedure documented somewhere?13:56
japharcean, what does rm680 mean as opposed to 001, which I assume was the firest version. I have mp-harmattan-rm680-pr installed now13:57
japhI haven't learned myself this apt/dpkg business, dpkg -s spammed one giant massive wall of n9 advertisement in 20 languages13:58
arceanRM-680 is a codename of N95013:59
japhoh dear. right13:59
arceanand 001 is the N9 repo you'd want to use14:00
japhis 'the n9' repo something official? (for n9...)14:00
kimjuand 001 is variant code of n9 for "most of the world"14:00
japhwell why did 2 exist if we are now going to have to use the one for n9 :p14:00
arceanheh, IIRC there's even N950 version of the PR 1.314:01
arceanI mean somewhere in Nokia ;)14:02
kimjuand even the n9 version is not yet officially publicly available, so just wait for a while..14:02
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japhyes, thank you kimju14:03
mankelido they also update dev repos? :-)14:03
kimjumankeli, wait and see..14:03
japhI'm sure I'll fuck things up and I don't have the time for fixing such before this weekend :p14:03
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jonnipatience, is the keyword of the day14:03
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rigoSpeedEvil, I think I'm a successful lobbyist myself, so I know how that works. And I still think the opportunity is NOW and in the next 6-12 month14:34
Lava_Crofthi nokia im in NL, screw the rest of the world14:39
rigoLava_Croft, have they opened the dykes and flooded the land or what is that noise about? :)14:45
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Lava_Croftwaiting for pr1.314:45
* azeem got the PR1.3 now, .de/.at14:48
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Lava_Croftpr1.3 arrived in NL now too14:52
Lava_Croftbut i dont want to OTA14:52
Lava_Croftill flash 1.2 and then OTA14:54
hiemanshuis there a PR1.3 for N950?14:57
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jonniIm so disapointed that my rick astley thread got sensored on TMO.15:09
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Lava_Crofti wonder why the flasher decided not to see my n915:12
chem|stjonni: next time you wanna rick'roll someone do it in some spastics forum!15:14
chem|stlike off-topic15:14
jonniit was a valid topic, pr1.4 anticipation thread.15:17
chem|stwith rick'rolling startingpost?15:17
jonniyep, its called humour, to wonder if its ever coming, or if people are ever 'not going to give up' waiting ;)15:19
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jonnibut maybe some people just don't understand humour15:21
chem|stjonni: ever since, those prx.x is out threads I do consider trolling, starting it with bs even more!15:21
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Lava_Crofthey nice15:31
Lava_Croftflashing on lunix actually makes the n9's progress bar work15:31
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Avengenceso anyne tried the new update yet?15:54
Avengence(for N9)15:54
AvengenceI'm making a backup before the update but debating how to handle this as it might be a good time to start fresh, iff I can sync out all the contacts and messages. my message database got trashed a week ago new messages end up in al the wrong places15:56
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Avengenceit would be nice if the update said what it does, for example if it might in any way help make the sync situation less painful15:59
Lava_Crofti flashed 1.2 and am updating to 1.3 OTA15:59
Avengencei've gone 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 OTA with backups each time but no reset of any data16:00
Avengenceonly issues I had were gmail hanggs until the message database insanity last week. I still wonder if I  manage to sync everything out if I can resort the messages or they will be wrong when transfered back. can syncML even get messages other than SMS?16:02
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ArkanoiD_is contacts merge bug finally fixed in 1.3? well, do merged contacts ever stop exploding?16:03
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AvengenceArkanoiD_: please elaborate on merged contacts bug16:03
Avengenceare you referring to something where the contacts actually merge, or certain things just act like they may have (say sms messages from two unrelated people suddenly go into one message sttream although neither is even defined as a contact, they are just two (DIFFERENT) phone numbers16:05
SpeedEviljonni: The proper move is to put up a 'leaked' modded 1.3 firmware with Rick as the boot animation.16:07
ArkanoiD_makes the whole phone book barely usable16:07
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Avengenceso N9 developer blog is dead I guess. no posts since april and 1.3 is offered without a mention16:32
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Avengencedrip drip drip the bytes come in as a tricle16:35
Avengenceare the OTA servers connected via ISDN?16:35
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rigojonni, when do you actually expect pr1.4?16:45
Sazpaimonwhat will happen if I do the OTA update on my openmode device?16:45
Sazpaimonbecause PR1.3 is showing up for me right now16:46
AvengenceSazpaimon: BOOM16:46
Sazpaimoni think I read once that all it will do is not flash the kernel, but I dont know for sure16:47
AvengenceSazpaimon: not tried it, but as told that you get MALF unless you revert to non-open, update, then go to new openmode version16:47
Avengencein the process, you have to reload all your data yourself16:47
Sazpaimonso I'll need to wait for navifirm to have it16:47
alteregoIt will probably remove openmode16:47
Avengencethat mess was enough to keep me out of openmode until 1.3, on the assumption that is last version we will ever see so no more official updates to worry about16:48
Sazpaimonwho's going to go and request PR1.3 sources?16:48
AvengenceI assume the guy in germany hat had DVDs of 1.1 and 1.2 on his ftp server will get 1.3 and put it there.16:49
Sazpaimonwhat was the email to request it again?16:50
Sazpaimoni may as well do it myself as well16:50
Sazpaimonsent the email16:54
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azeemwasn't it Corsac who hosted some sources16:54
Avengencewell, looks liek someone decided to take the network cable out of the bucket of water. after the firt 30mb or so, it suddenly leaped from a pitiful mess (bursts of 80k/s with seconds of nothing between) to almost 800k/s for the rest of the download, and then something like 2 minutes for the last byte16:55
nid0fwiw, my 1.3 ota update downloaded at the full speed of my net connection, about 3 minutes16:56
chem|stany changelog available yet?16:57
chem|st200MB is somewhat alot...16:57
rm_workah is 1.3 out?16:57
gabriel9|worki upgraded16:57
gabriel9|workso far is good16:57
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gabriel9|workwe need changelog16:58
Avengencenid0: previously updates were no problem, but this one had a bad start. it blew out at only 5mb and I had to retry it manually. since downloads from nkia store fail more often than not in last 3 months, I figured they stopped paying bills and just linked the daatacenter to the internet using the wifi in the coffee shop next door16:58
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rigoif the download is so slow, there are chances that there are many devices out there...16:59
Sazpaimonoh and i cant remember17:00
chem|strigo: device sales were significantly higher than lumia xxx17:00
Sazpaimonbut is PR1.2 the last OCF update for N950?17:00
Avengencerigo: for most software updates, it either sits tere doing nothing for 2 mionutes and says failed or it downloads whole thing but says failed at 100%. I just keep hitting retry until it works or I get bored and then try again a few days later. trivial things (less than 100k probably install fine) . anything more it's nearly impossible17:01
Sazpaimoni think I read some places that said N950 won't be getting PR1.317:01
rm_workah well17:05
rm_workdidn't our last 1.2 update on n950 give us most of these features anyway?17:06
rm_workIIRC it was like pr1.2B as a beta for 1.317:06
Corsacazeem: I do17:07
azeem15:48 < Sazpaimon> who's going to go and request PR1.3 sources?17:07
azeem15:49 < Avengence> I assume the guy in germany hat had DVDs of 1.1 and 1.2 on his ftp server will get 1.3 and put it there.17:07
Corsacazeem: I will, I think17:07
rm_workwait, are those leaked sources for their closed components? or just a source repo as normal17:09
azeemthe latter17:10
rm_workthey don't provide that officially??17:10
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jonnimost likely its cheaper to send dvd's than host it :)17:12
jonnifor me OTA update to pr1.3 in finland was successfull atleast. was kinda slow, but in the end it booted up just fine.17:14
Avengenceif they used a webseed torrent, it'd cost next to nothing to host17:14
Avengencethe cost to press the and mail the dvd to one person probably exceeds the cost of a webseeded torrent for a month17:14
nibbleri'm happily volunteering to host it if it becomes available for the N950, bandwidth is not a concern.17:17
Avengenceupdate installed, sms messages datanase is still totally fucked and new messages are pilling on at random17:17
Avengenceincoming sms messages pile onto any previous message stream at random. the correct number shows on the notofication, but in messages app it is merged into the wrong conversation. no cotnacts involved, just numbers. some sms messages have merged into skype conversations. after rebot, the entire skype converation is gone and exists only as a convesation with hte erratn phone number17:19
AvengenceI need my messages out, I need to figure out where all the messages in the last week really came from, and I need to get it all sorted out so it stops happening. suggestions?17:20
azeemAvengence: tracker-sparql17:20
Avengenceazeem: please elaborate. do you mean soe app to use on the phone to edit the database, or some tool on pc to edit the database once it's transfered?17:22
azeemwell, editing is difficult as tracker-sparql can only query or delete17:22
azeembut you could at least poke at what's wrong17:23
radiofreeyou can edit using sparql17:23
Avengencestill can't copy the body of a non-text message. so cant copy email, cant copy mms. email no big deal usually, is on the desktop. mms, great, blob of gibberish and I cant copy paste it to translate.17:23
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Avengencechangelog would be nice to know what should have changed17:24
azeemradiofree: you mean like this: ?17:24
radiofreealthough you will delete then insert again....17:24
Avengenceno sync improvements I can see. no carddav. no syncml interface17:24
azeemAvengence: says "Over 1000 quality improvements including Mail, Facebook, Twitter, minor network & connectivity improvements."17:25
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koethat means: none17:25
Avengenceradiofree: in the current state, I assume I want to query then delete ALL before inserting anything since it's obviously gotten sick. I don't just want to patch the recents but remove whatever corruption it has17:25
Avengenceyaeh I read that as "didn't do shit, might've fixed some bugs, good luck figuring out which ones. oh, and have fun finding the new ones"17:27
itsnotabigtruckwhat's the status on PR1.317:28
Kozziit's available17:28
koeinception not works)17:29
koeand thats the only visible change17:29
Avengenceoh for fucks sake, tracker doesnt even have the decency to support some regular interface, but uses some not-sql BULLSHIT? what a PITA17:30
azeemAvengence: it's "standardized"17:30
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azeemkoe: somebody mentioned "single tone" would get a dedicated status bar icon \o/17:30
Avengencesql is a standard. csv is a standard. either of those would be better17:30
itsnotabigtruckkoe: check the inception website17:30
itsnotabigtruckas of about 5 seconds ago17:30
radiofreeAvengence: it's SQPARQL17:30
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, forgot to declassify it17:31
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rm_workit is sqlite17:31
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rm_workyou can open the tracker DB with sqlite17:31
rm_workand the messages are in there17:31
rm_worki did that to export and re-import when i upgraded last time17:31
Avengencerm_work: the real data is sqlite? ok, thank you. fuck the gay sparkles, the raw tables is all I want, and if I dont havfe to even use sql and can just dump the data because its sqlite, all the better.17:32
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koeitsnotabigtruck, wow :)17:32
itsnotabigtruckjust to make sure everyone noticed: NEW INCEPTION OUT!17:32
rm_workAvengence: also:17:33
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itsnotabigtruckand it has cool new features if you aren't on pr1.3 so upgrade either way17:33
rm_workAvengence: also:
rm_workAvengence: I believe that makes it a hell of a lot easier17:33
Avengencerm_work: thanks!17:33
rm_workthe resulting file is like, CSV17:33
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rm_workand easily editable17:33
azeemitsnotabigtruck: so where is the 0.2 changelog? :P17:34
Avengencethat looks lie exactly waht I want17:34
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itsnotabigtruckazeem: it's inside the deb if you feel like reading it17:39
itsnotabigtruckbut how about instead just installing it and feeling the awesome17:39
Sazpaimonazeem, I already made a request anyway17:41
Sazpaimonwe'll see who gets it first I guess17:41
Sazpaimonconsidering I'm in USA, probably you17:41
rm_workitsnotabigtruck: is inception in a repository somewhere?17:42
rm_workor just available as a deb download17:42
itsnotabigtruckrm_work: deb17:42
rm_workhrm, k17:42
Kozziitsnotabigtruck: perhaps you can update tmo threads name, so people know that pr1.3 is supported17:42
itsnotabigtruckalso, if you incepted on pr1.2 and upgraded to pr1.317:42
Sazpaimonoops, meant to say that to Corsac17:42
itsnotabigtruckmy testing indicated that inception will continue to work17:42
itsnotabigtruckas long as you don't run pasiv17:42
Avengencegreat, the latest fucking cockup: I got a message that showed as from the number belonging to someone that I do business with regularly who is on vacation this week, so maybe important and this strange message is maybe saying I need to do some crap to retrieve wahtever message they sent from another country17:42
itsnotabigtruckhowever, the new inception runs a lot smoother and it has a major new feature called ariadne17:42
itsnotabigtruckit's described on the new ver of the inception website17:43
rm_workwas hoping inception would show up in Packrat17:43
itsnotabigtrucki gotta run17:43
AvengenceNOPE! Its just an add from my carrier, roughly translated, my phone can now do MMS (holy shit) just call this numer becase yor settings are correct.(huh?)17:43
rm_workthe thing RST38h wrote and I continue to "maintain"17:43
Avengencedamn it tracker, must you get EVERY message wrong on 1.3?17:43
CorsacSazpaimon: I'm waiting for the update before sending the mail :)17:44
SazpaimonCorsac, you mean in navifirm?17:44
itsnotabigtruckoh, also, everyone: if you're on a non-001 product code and the firmware images are out17:45
rm_worki really wish N9(50) used something like the old .install files17:45
CorsacI'll do it OTA17:45
itsnotabigtruckflash the damn thing17:45
itsnotabigtruckdon't do an ota upgrade17:45
CorsacSazpaimon: I don't habve navifirm17:45
rigoanybody knows another email client for N9? fenix keeps on crashing when I try to change folder17:45
rm_workno way to actually force it to do a dependency check :(17:45
itsnotabigtruckit's important that you switch to the 001 region code17:45
itsnotabigtruckbecause the other ones suck and this is your last chance to do so17:45
Corsacwhat are the differences?17:45
rm_workregion codes?17:45
Sazpaimonwell, at the very least, 001 variant gets updates first17:45
itsnotabigtrucklack of branding compared to the ones not less than 10017:45
CorsacSazpaimon: I'm running Linux, so I usually download OTA and find a way to the link later17:46
itsnotabigtruckall social apps17:46
itsnotabigtruckit's the generic standard17:46
Avengencewahts the code for NO social apps?17:46
itsnotabigtruckthere is none17:46
itsnotabigtruckbut 003 has all the chinese socialapps17:46
itsnotabigtruckand none of the western ones17:46
itsnotabigtruckthough 001 is also western only apps17:46
Corsacbah, I'm on 001 anyway17:46
Avengencei really want to make the twatter and fakebook go away17:46
itsnotabigtruckthere's a way17:47
SazpaimonCorsac, then you should have the update17:47
itsnotabigtruckit's not easy17:47
Sazpaimonmy 001 variant got the update when I manually did a refresh17:47
rm_workdon't add accounts for them :P17:47
Corsacyeah but store was opened since this morning17:47
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Sazpaimonwell like I said, my 001 variant has the update sitting there17:48
Avengencerm_work: they are in the way on the screen, any time I add an app  I have to move them down, each reboot they get above the sim apps, etc17:48
Sazpaimoni cant do anything about it since I'm in open mode though17:48
rm_workAvengence: put them in a folder :P17:48
rm_workyou have folders now17:48
itsnotabigtruckno response on tmo yet17:48
Corsacwell, if someone has the direct link for download, I'm interested so I restore in case of problem, but it's not urgent17:48
itsnotabigtruckcome on guys, start freaking out about new inception! :p17:48
SazpaimonCorsac, give me a sec17:48
itsnotabigtruckCorsac: grab navifirm or check out my firmware guide17:48
CorsacSazpaimon: yep, upgrade's here17:49
itsnotabigtruckit has all the deets17:49
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Corsacitsnotabigtruck: I don't have windows17:49
Avengencecan I have a folder that doesnt show up? hidden folder where things go to die?17:49
SazpaimonAvengence, prefixing a folder name with . makes it mostly hidden17:49
Corsacmh, smsbackuprestore seems to die doing the select17:49
Avengencemostly hidden as in doesnt take up any icon space on the home screen?17:50
qwazixplease clarify, will inception work if I apply it after the update?17:50
Sazpaimonwhat's the update number?17:51
rm_workCorsac: i had to run it like 4 times and figure out which file was the complete version17:51
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rm_workerr, ran it 6 times till i got three that were the largest size and seemed to be all the same, so considered that the full dump17:52
Avengencea . on the literal folder name doesnt help17:52
SazpaimonKozzi, those are all vietnam links17:52
Sazpaimonhowever, I cant seem to find a ROW firmware variant on navifirm17:53
Kozziyeah but for 001 variant17:53
CorsacKozzi: thanks17:53
Kozzifirst is magenta, second and thir is black and fourth is cyan17:53
SazpaimonKozzi, you sure that's the 001 variant? I cant find it on navifirm17:54
Sazpaimon059J1Z5 is the 001 variant right?17:54
Sazpaimonfor 16GB black17:54
Kozziokey, fix the second and third are for vietnamese variant17:54
Corsac 7% [=>                                     ] 87 937 419  8,42M/s  eta 2m 0s17:55
Kozzi005 sorry my bad17:55
SazpaimonKozzi, okay yeah thwe first link is 00117:58
Sazpaimoncan anyone confirm the kernel version for 1.3?17:58
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Avengencewhen I was alerted to the 1.3 update, it said 7 app updates. after the reboot, I go to manage apps and there's only one update. huh?18:00
phakoAvengence: core app updates are included in the device update18:01
Avengencewahts a core app? im getting a bundled app rigt now, accuweather. and i know ive seen separate installs for at least half the other bundled apps18:01
JaffaAvengence: Most of the ones which were in the 7 app updates were bundled in the OS update. Twitter, Facebook etc.18:02
phakowell yes, technically accuweather is a core app, but apparently that had an update after PR1.3 was finalized18:02
ZogG_laptopso everyone got the updates?18:05
Avengence"core app" to me implies something like the web browser or mail or messages app. the other things, those which have entries in the applications list, I'd call bundled. they are not core, they are listed as seprate entities. only issue is the lack of an uninstall/delete on those bunded apps18:05
arceanSazpaimon: 2.6.32-20121301+0m818:05
Sazpaimonarcean, thanks18:05
AvengenceIhad one app still listed that failed all prior attempts. I hit try again, it sat there for 30 sec and then dumped out. now it sows as installed, 0 bytes, no icon. great, limbo18:06
ZogG_laptopso who updated - how are the feelings18:06
AvengenceZogG_laptop: no visible changes/fixes yet whatsoever18:07
JaffaAvengence: Terminology doesn't matter, lots of the bundled apps get updated with the OS update18:08
Avengencegoing out totally and back into applications reverts the state. each time, outcome is same, 0byte packe installed after an error the package is missing. only solution, uninstall that 0byte iconless app, exit applications list and then return. now its gone, start from scratch18:09
AvengenceJaffa: nearly all th ebundled apps ive seen updated separate. not sure if there were also updates with, just that after an os updates, I'd be wasting far more bandwidth in separate updates for the trash games and social apps that dont even havef the decency to use binary patches for the updates18:10
JaffaAvengence: Sorry, sounded like you were confused about what's going on. I'm not defending the bundling, was just trying to explain why the number of updates dropped after installing PR1.3.18:12
abfor me OTA update stuck at 90% for few hours already, is this known?18:12
AvengenceJaffa: i was confused as to why th enumber changed. that some bundled apps comes with the os and some separate just means they are messy amateurs when it comes to making packages. calling something a core app implies its more than a bundled app so that added a little more confusion on the pile18:13
Avengenceab: mine died at 5mb and required restart. up to about a third of the way, it was not much quicker than dialup, with long dead periods. so, the update servers are having some issues just getting the bits out the door18:14
Sazpaimonsomeone apparently said they were able to update an open mode device to PR1.3 OTA18:15
Sazpaimonso the kernel hasn't changed that much apparently18:15
SazpaimonI guess I'll take the plunge18:16
ZogG_laptopJaffa: the problem that few numbers probably were up just for new update and may been not updated18:16
abAvengence: no, that's different. Download was fast but update afterwards stuck at 90%. There is a topic at TMO. Rebooting helped18:18
kimjuhas anyone made a list comparing the packet versions between 1.2 and 1.3?18:19
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ZogG_laptopkimju: as i said just before - it might be only version but no change for app18:19
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kimjuZogG_laptop, yes, of course. still would like see a list of updates18:20
arceanSazpaimon, I'm running PR 1.3 with open mode kernel (PR1.2) on N95018:21
arceanso yeah it works ;D18:21
Sazpaimonarcean, how did you manage to get PR1.3 on N950?18:23
Sazpaimonjust apt-get upgrade?18:23
Sazpaimonseeing as there's no OCF for PR1.318:24
arceanyes, you have to use N9 repo18:24
arceanand be aware that installing mp-harmattan-001-pr will brick your device18:24
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arceanbut without metapackage everything works, so that's not a big problem :)18:26
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Sazpaimonhow does a meta package brick a device18:29
Sazpaimonthat doesnt make any sense18:29
arceani'm not sure, but IIRC it has cert-sw18:30
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arceanor sw-cert whatever18:30
arceanand if such sw-cert would be flashed, then you wouldn't be able to reflash n950 with pr12 beta ocf18:31
Sazpaimonyeah and good luck taking it to a service center for a downgrade18:35
Sazpaimonmy OTA update on my N9 is stuck at 0% updating18:35
Sazpaimonlet me reboot and try again18:35
Lava_Croftpr1.3 didnt fix my camera18:36
AvengenceSazpaimon: mine sat at 0% a long time before it started counting up18:37
Lava_Croftyes, it takes quite a while to update OTA18:37
Lava_Croftand it stays at 0% for quite a while too18:37
Avengencenot counting download, the update install took about 20min, then however for the reboot18:38
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Lava_Crofttoo bad i still have broken camera18:38
Sazpaimonrebooted and now I see a message "Rescuing software update. Please do not interrupt"18:38
Lava_Croftto nokia care it is18:38
Lava_Croftthat doesnt sound too good18:38
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Sazpaimonyeah probably need to reflash18:39
Lava_Crofti dont see pr1.3 fw in navifirm yet18:39
SazpaimonI do18:39
Lava_Croftnot for my regio18:39
Lava_Croftregion* im NL18:39
Lava_Croftor benelux, whatever18:39
SazpaimonI just use region 00118:39
Sazpaimonanyway, thats a weird new message18:40
Sazpaimoni havent seen that message in preinit before18:40
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: so i could just get the fw for LTA region?18:43
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SazpaimonLava_Croft, just get the firmware for the global variant18:45
Sazpaimonthat should be the link for global 16GB N9s18:46
Lava_Crofttheres no new emmc image?18:46
Lava_Croftand thanks18:46
Sazpaimoni never flash emmc18:46
Sazpaimontat should be it18:46
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Sazpaimoncould be wrong on that though18:47
Kozziwhat does emmc flashing do ?18:47
Lava_Crofti think you are wrong on that one:)18:47
ZogG_laptophm i can't update =)18:49
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Avengenceis there a different image for 64GB N9? I thought they would use the same as OS parttions should be inditical, only size of user data partition should be different18:51
Lava_Crofttheres no difference between 64gb and 16gb versions, iirc18:53
Lava_Croftbut im not entirely sure18:53
Lava_CroftWhen downloading firmware images, it doesn't matter which color or capacity (16/64 GB) you select - the files are the same for all models.18:53
KozziI think there is with applications storage size18:53
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Avengencei wouldn't expect a difference, but hand to wonder after <Sazpaimon> that should be the link for global 16GB N9s18:54
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ZogG_laptopunable to trace installation package dependencies18:55
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itsnotabigtruck2hey rzr19:12
* Lava_Croft is looking against visiting Nokia Care19:13
itsnotabigtruck2anyone have any trouble with inception 0.2 yet?19:13
Lava_Croftthe people that work at my local care point have no regard and/or love for Maemo19:13
itsnotabigtruck2or alternately, think it's awesome19:13
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: is 1.4 out?19:13
itsnotabigtruck2lol zogg19:13
itsnotabigtruck2and Lava_Croft: what's the problem with your N9?19:13
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: camera:<19:13
Lava_Croftit was working intermittent at first19:13
ZogG_laptopi can't update19:13
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Lava_Croftbut the past week orso it just doesnt work at all19:13
itsnotabigtruck2too many people send their N9s back because of software problems, which are almost always fixable on one's own19:13
Lava_Croftcamera is not responding msg19:13
itsnotabigtruck2but this doesn't sound like that19:13
Lava_Crofthaha, yes19:13
ZogG_laptopwhat is it for apt-get to uprage distro - distupdate or what?19:14
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: download the pr1.3 flash image19:14
itsnotabigtruck2and flash it19:14
Lava_Croftthats how i brought my first n900 to Care19:14
itsnotabigtruck2it's already available on day 119:14
Lava_Croftgood thing i did tho, they fucked up and i got two back19:14
* Lava_Croft chuckles19:14
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: n flashing, i have apps and configs and backup on n9 sucks19:14
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: you already updated inception?19:14
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: yep19:14
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: how nice! I was loving the 'older' version19:15
Lava_Croftbut more loving it for its potential:)19:15
itsnotabigtruck2this one has shiny new features too19:15
Sazpaimon"maximum rescue count exceeded"19:15
itsnotabigtruck2so everyone should upgrade asap even if they haven't upgraded to pr1.319:15
Sazpaimonoh boy19:15
Sazpaimonguess I gotta reflash19:15
itsnotabigtruck2namely: ariadne19:15
itsnotabigtruck2it's like sudo for aegis19:15
itsnotabigtruck2named after the character in the film :p19:15
Lava_Croftand you called it ariadne?19:15
Lava_Croftafter the ESA rockets?19:15
Corsacit's Ariane :)19:15
Lava_Croftoh yeah19:15
Lava_Croftnow i remember19:15
Lava_CroftAriadne is something completely different19:15
Lava_Croftits a magazine my wife reads19:16
Lava_Croftabout home decoration19:16
Lava_Croftno shit!19:16
itsnotabigtruck2it's originally a greek mythological character19:16
itsnotabigtruck2not a lame magazine :p19:16
Sazpaimonoh also, I just did a backup using the builtin backup application19:16
Sazpaimonwhat exactly does that backup19:16
Lava_Croftthe magazine isnt that lame, if you are a woman and like home decorating!19:16
Sazpaimondoes it do texts?19:16
itsnotabigtruck2Sazpaimon: not your sms messages, apparently19:16
Sazpaimonoh fun19:16
itsnotabigtruck2but it does do your mms messages19:16
ZogG_laptopSazpaimon: saves configs i think and app list19:16
Lava_Croftn9 backup is a bit meh19:16
Lava_Croftand the app list is ridiculo8us19:16
Sazpaimonguess I'm flashing the rescue image to save my tracker database19:16
Lava_Croftsince after restoring it will just tell you it cant restore your apps19:17
itsnotabigtruck2anyway, so once you upgrade, get rid of opensh19:17
itsnotabigtruck2and use ariadne instead19:17
Lava_Croftfor various reason (.deb, ovi store, etc etc)19:17
itsnotabigtruck2unlike opensh, it's protected through your root password19:17
ZogG_laptopi have opensh19:17
trxitsnotabigtruck sounds good, thanks19:17
Sazpaimonof course I have no microusb cable here at work19:17
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: it would be more relevant on PC but noone knows here hat iis terminal and n9 only me using opensh so don't see the problem19:18
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: its just odd with the camera, since it sound like a common-ish problem19:18
Lava_Croftyet all the given solutions dont work19:18
Lava_Croftim having bad dreams about that other nokia with camera problems:X19:18
Lava_CroftN97 i think19:18
ZogG_laptopit's funny that there is no official changelog =\19:18
Lava_Croftthe post stated they had ONE THOUSAND improvements19:18
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: the main thing i was aiming against is poorly written or evil apps doing things like system("opensh -c evilscript");19:18
Lava_Croftgive the poor guy some time to write that down19:18
rzrLava_Croft, and ZERO regressions ?19:19
itsnotabigtruck2there's nothing preventing opensh from being used in ways it's not supposed to, for non-interactive stuff19:19
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Lava_Croftrzr: ?19:19
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: if you say it so it sounds logical19:20
rzrany change is risky isnt it ... i am wondering how many regression we will find19:20
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: there's already been a few things that do that19:20
itsnotabigtruck2rzr: i doubt there's many regressions19:20
Lava_Croftrzr: you mean from pr1.3?19:20
itsnotabigtruck2as there aren't many changes, period19:20
Lava_Crofti dont think they changed a lot19:20
itsnotabigtruck2practically nothing changed except their inception countermeasures19:20
Lava_Croftiirc its mostly bugfixing19:20
Lava_Croftthey actually made work of combating inception?19:20
Lava_Croftin these dark days for nokia they spend manhours on that?19:20
rzrthey added wallpapers !19:20
Lava_Croftwhat the19:21
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: i would like to hear what bugs were fixed =)19:21
itsnotabigtruck2i have a list of aegis patches somewhere at home19:21
itsnotabigtruck25 targeting inception 0.119:21
Lava_Croftwell, from their standpoint, its logical19:21
itsnotabigtruck21 targeting another exploit that i ended up using in 0.1.119:21
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: does it go smooth for you thru ota or u flashed?19:21
Lava_Croftif i coded Aegis, i would want inception to not work either:)19:21
itsnotabigtruck21 targeting another exploit i didn't even think of19:21
itsnotabigtruck2and then a lot of minor changes to aegis that don't really affect inception19:22
itsnotabigtruck2or other exploits19:22
itsnotabigtruck2and i did an ota, it went fine19:22
macmaNwish n9 update would show up..19:22
rzrwhat was the suprise in this release ? they said it will bring a special feature didnt they ?19:22
itsnotabigtruck2macmaN: just download the image and flash it19:22
Lava_CroftmacmaN: patience:<19:22
itsnotabigtruck2then put inception 0.2 on19:22
Lava_CroftmacmaN: or do what itsnotabigtruck2 said19:22
itsnotabigtruck2never patience!19:22
Lava_Croftsomeone linked to the firmware earlier in here19:22
Lava_Croftnot too long ago19:22
Lava_Croftthere, Global fw19:23
itsnotabigtruck2yup, that's the stuff19:23
macmaN /lastlog http also got it19:23
Lava_Croftcan you imagine this19:23
Lava_Croftfinally you see that 1.3 arrived19:23
Lava_Croftyou painfully wait all the time it needs to update OTA19:23
Lava_Croftand then the camera still doesnt work19:23
itsnotabigtruck2well, is it a software or a hardware issue19:23
Lava_Crofthow can a man be so sad over a goddamn smartphone19:23
Lava_Croftim not sure19:24
itsnotabigtruck2if the lens is fubar no firmware update will do anything about it19:24
Lava_Croftsince it was working sporadically at first19:24
Lava_Croftbut then it wasnt working at all19:24
Lava_Croftnot even MAG's flashlight MT toggle worked19:24
Lava_Croftwhich makes it sound more like software19:24
Lava_Croftbut its all guessing19:24
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft: make fresh flash and go to nokia care19:24
Sazpaimondid you try launching camera-ui from the terminal?19:24
macmaNcrap, flashing is going to wipe out the phone right19:25
Sazpaimonmy camera isnt working either, and I actually get an error message19:25
AvengenceLava_Croft: my camera once did the not responding thing but works fine after reboot. I was worried because it was a week after I dropped it down a flight of stairs (scuffs on the silicon, nothing more) but seems the fall did no damage19:25
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: what error19:25
Sazpaimoni cant recall19:25
Sazpaimoni cant check now, I have MALF19:25
Lava_Croftonly 'error' i get is about registerService() registering failed19:25
Sazpaimonlaunch if from terminal first19:26
Lava_Crofti just did19:26
Sazpaimonbefore launching it from the app screen19:26
Sazpaimonlike, on a fresh boot19:26
Lava_Croftif i was religious, id say that jesus whispered into my ear that its a software issue19:26
Lava_Croftthats my feeling about it, completely unbased19:27
Sazpaimonwoah what the hell19:27
Sazpaimonafter a few reboot loops19:27
Sazpaimonits working19:28
Sazpaimonno reflash needed19:28
Lava_CroftOTA worked for me too19:28
infobot<a href="">BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH</a>, or how you own your phone (see #inception):
itsnotabigtruck2ok, no update needed to that19:29
Lava_Croftah Sazpaimon19:29
Lava_Croftcamera pipeline error19:29
Lava_Crofttimeout when trying to get videoframes from device19:29
itsnotabigtruck2btw i shipped an updated aegisctl along with inception19:29
Lava_Croftsounds less software now19:29
Sazpaimonwhat the hell, I got MALF, and then rebooted and its fine19:29
itsnotabigtruck2no actual changes, the only real difference is the dependencies19:29
mankeliitsnotabigtruck2: its updated for pr1.3?19:29
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: there was flame war on TMO openmode vs inception19:29
itsnotabigtruck2mankeli: yup19:29
mankelidamn youre fast19:30
Sazpaimonand my mp-harmattan-001-pr is 40.2012.21-319:30
Sazpaimonwhat the hell19:30
itsnotabigtruck2only thing that doesn't work is opptimizer, that's going to have to wait for the kernel source19:30
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: where?19:30
Sazpaimonyet for some reason I still have a PR1.3 update notification19:30
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: so it does indeed poop out error19:31
mankelican't install19:31
trxitsnotabigtruck can i run an executable with ariadne? I tried to run an executable which i scp-ed into the phone and set chmod 777 to it19:31
Sazpaimonguess I'll reflash just to be safe19:31
Sazpaimonsince my camera app is broken too19:31
mankeliunable to trace installation package dependencies.19:31
trxitsnotabigtruck i get "Operation not permitted"19:31
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: curious for your error msg19:31
ZogG_laptopJaffa: the article about new incepption was fast19:31
SazpaimonLava_Croft, I think I have the same19:31
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: sounds like camera unreachable by app to me19:31
trxitsnotabigtruck but i can run it without ariadne just fine tho19:32
itsnotabigtruck2trx: do aegisctl -s19:32
macmaNwhen I add the n9 repo to sources.list on n950, how come some simple apps like Twitter tell me "incompatible with other installed apps"19:32
mankelithere seems to be alot of probs w/ pr1.319:32
itsnotabigtruck2btw when you get an aegis EPERM it writes the reason out to the kernel log (try dmesg | tail)19:32
Sazpaimonokay so19:32
macmaNwhen trying to update them to what n9 has19:32
itsnotabigtruck2that will tell you that it was a source identifier check problem19:32
Sazpaimonwhats the most complete backup I can make on the N919:32
itsnotabigtruck2aegisctl -s kills that check19:32
macmaNotoh most apps seem to work just fine19:32
Sazpaimonlike, absolute most complete19:32
Sazpaimonincluding smses19:33
itsnotabigtruck2Sazpaimon: i usually just grab contacts, smses, and photos19:33
Lava_Crofthmm Sazpaimon19:33
itsnotabigtruck2and jot down the apps i want to keep19:33
Lava_Croftnot any recent google results for the error19:33
itsnotabigtruck2oh, and game save files19:33
Lava_Croftat least not younger than a year19:33
itsnotabigtruck2the contacts and smses can be done easily with nokia suite19:33
Lava_Croftthis looks promising19:33
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Lava_CroftI cant wait for the day that N9 gets normal Maemo5-like repos19:34
Lava_Croftthe current situation is just ridiculous19:34
trxitsnotabigtruck thank you19:37
SazpaimonLava_Croft, so basically:
Sazpaimonre: camera issue19:38
Lava_Croftto tal ly19:38
Avengencedamn, just realized waht TMO is in this context. I was thinking of a particular carrier code but that wasnt makin sense in context19:38
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: its been like this for me for the past month19:38
Lava_Croftbut i piss on nokia care people19:38
SazpaimonLava_Croft, well Im going to reflash today19:38
Lava_Croftthey know jackshit about maemo devices (at least here)19:38
Sazpaimonso i'll let you know if it works19:38
Lava_Crofti already did that a few times19:39
Lava_Croftdoesnt work19:39
Lava_Crofthavent tried a clean flash with 1.3 tho19:39
Lava_Croftbut i doubt it will help19:39
Lava_Croftwauw i finally found someone with the same error19:39
Lava_Croftthis is just great19:39
Sazpaimoni need a new USB cover19:39
Sazpaimonthe metal part finally fell off19:39
Lava_Crofti needed a new one after a week19:39
Lava_Croftits all bent and chipping off19:39
Sazpaimonso now it bends too easy19:39
Lava_Croftmine creeks19:40
Sazpaimonhow do you people survive with 4 icons per row19:40
Lava_Croftsince day one19:40
Lava_Croftmake folders, Sazpaimon19:40
Sazpaimonever time i reflash the first thing I change is icon size19:40
Lava_Croftits the only way to survive the apps menu19:40
Sazpaimontheyre just too huge19:40
Lava_Croftoh, i dont touch that19:40
Lava_Croftits a full touch phone, those always have ridiculous font sizes19:40
Sazpaimonits like19:40
Lava_Crofton n900, i always use tiny fonts19:40
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: btw, what is the specific camera problem19:40
Sazpaimonmy friend has a giant 1080p display19:40
Lava_Crofti launch it from terminal, itsnotabigtruck219:41
Lava_Croftyou want the exact error message?19:41
itsnotabigtruck2i just realized: if you get some message about the camera not responding, that's software19:41
Sazpaimonbut he sets the DPI to some ungodly setting19:41
Lava_Croftwell, it is19:41
Sazpaimonso it looks like 800x60019:41
itsnotabigtruck2normally a kernel-user mismatch19:41
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Lava_Croftit reports a timeout19:41
itsnotabigtruck2wait, does it come up on the terminal, or as an infobanner over the camera app19:41
Venemo~seen achipa19:41
Lava_CroftTimeout when trying to get video frames from device19:41
itsnotabigtruck2sounds different19:41
Lava_Croftthe notification just states the camera is not responding19:41
infobotachipa <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 232d 6h 51m ago, saying: 'also libqtm-12 seems to have lost the promotion block so it's borked in general as it propagated to testing'.19:41
Lava_Croftand i should restart it, or the phone19:41
itsnotabigtruck2ok, then that's it19:42
Avengence1080p is never "giant" in resolution19:42
Lava_Croftterminal reports the 'real' error19:42
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: flash it19:42
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck,  I can tell you when I do it from terminal,  I get a message about /dev/media0 not responding19:42
Lava_Crofti did that several times with 1.2 already, itsnotabigtruck219:42
Lava_Croftdidnt fix it19:42
itsnotabigtruck2flash it again? :p it's a good idea to purge it before taking it to nokia care anyway19:42
trxitsnotabigtruck2, what would i need to do, to allow the application access the internet when scp-ed like this? It cant connect when scped, only when installed from a package :/19:42
Avengencethats still less than waht I was running on CRTs well over a decade and now LCD reolution is dropping. thats the WTF19:42
Lava_Croftnothing about /dev/media0 for me19:42
itsnotabigtruck2trx: you don't need special permissions to access the internet...19:42
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Sazpaimondoes anyone have a URL for the global EMMC image?19:42
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: its fresh atm19:42
Lava_Croft1.2 flashed and 1.3 OTA19:42
Lava_Croftim currently surrounded by freshly flashed maemo devices19:43
Lava_Croftand my sim is in my 165019:43
Lava_Croftwhat a life of luxury19:43
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: it sound to me like the app cannot reach the camera at all19:43
Lava_Croftwhich sounds like hardware problem19:44
Avengenceanyway, default size fits 20 icons on the top. I just sort things by use. the more I need it, the further up it goes. I dont use fiolders but its rare I havef to scroll down.19:44
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: do a uname -a19:44
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itsnotabigtruck2make sure you're running the kernel you're supposed to be19:44
trxitsnotabigtruck2 thats wierd, because when i install the program using a package built in cOBS, parts of the program that need internet are working fine. But when i scp the executable those parts dont work :/19:45
Lava_Croftthe whole wrong kernel thing is not it, im just about 100% sure of that19:45
Lava_Crofti did all the stuff with resetting, reboot -u, reflashing19:45
itsnotabigtruck2trx: what happens when you do aegisctl -s and ariadne it19:45
Lava_Croftdid the reboot command move or disappear19:45
Lava_Croftin 1.319:45
itsnotabigtruck2that will let you rule out permission problems, anyway19:45
SazpaimonLava_Croft, no19:45
Sazpaimonit's in /sbin19:45
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: it's in /sbin19:45
Sazpaimonwhich isnt the default path19:45
trxitsnotabigtruck2 the same thing that happens without ariadne and aegisctl -s19:46
Lava_Croftah yeah, no /usr/sbin19:46
Lava_Croftsilly me19:46
itsnotabigtruck2trx: then it's not an aegis permission problem19:46
itsnotabigtruck2better see if you can figure out precisely why it's failing19:46
Sazpaimonokay so19:46
Sazpaimonrun me through the backup process now19:46
SazpaimonI dont care about accounts, just actual user content19:46
Lava_CroftSazpaimon: i use Nokia Ovi shit to backup contacts etc19:46
Lava_Croftso i can restore ota19:47
Lava_Croftthat actually works rather well19:47
Lava_Croftmuch better than what it was on n90019:47
SazpaimonN900 has backupmenu19:47
Sazpaimonthats all I really need19:47
Lava_Croftwhich failed here19:47
Lava_Croftbut yeah, backupmenu for n9 would be nice19:47
itsnotabigtruck2btw i'd like to find out what people think about ariadne usability19:48
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Sazpaimonokay what the hell is nokia suite doing19:48
Sazpaimonits just sitting here with a blue squircle19:48
Sazpaimonhow long does it do that19:48
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Venemohi guys19:50
Sazpaimonhey Venemo19:50
VenemoI managed to brick my N9... so I wanna reflash it. is navifirm a safe source to download the images?19:51
SazpaimonVenemo, yeah, but I dont see the global variant for PR1.3 there19:51
Sazpaimonthis is the link for it though19:51
Kozzilol how long does the ota update stay at 0% ?19:51
itsnotabigtruck2it downloads the files directly from nokia, it just talks to nokia's web service to get the URLs19:51
itsnotabigtruck2it's not like it's some dodgy thing19:51
itsnotabigtruck2kozzi: a while19:52
Sazpaimonwell, the program is written kinda badly19:52
itsnotabigtruck2but not very long19:52
Venemointerestingly I've discovered that my device (given to me by Nokia Developer) is a Singapore variant. and it came with an UK charger. how the heck is that possible?19:52
AvengenceKozzi: the first 10-20% by time is spent saying 0% progress19:52
Kozziok thanks for the info19:52
VenemoSazpaimon: does it hurt if I install this global firmware to a device which originally didn't come with the global firmware?19:53
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: what plug does singapore use19:53
itsnotabigtruck2it is, after all, a former british colony19:53
SazpaimonVenemo, singapore uses british plugs19:53
Venemomeh, lol19:53
AvengenceVenemo: probably, the phone and charger were both items he got at separate timees and paired together for you19:53
Venemook, I think Sazpaimon said it correctly19:54
Venemoso does it do any bad if I just flash the global fw to it?19:54
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Avengencei didnt think anyone used those plugs outside uk19:54
Sazpaimoni actually own a surge protector that has universal plugs19:54
Sazpaimonso it works with any plug from any country19:54
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: you can flash any firmware on any n919:55
itsnotabigtruck2they're hardware-wise identical19:55
Venemoitsnotabigtruck2, so what's the difference between the different software?19:55
itsnotabigtruck2and the charger just shows up as usb dc current either way19:55
SazpaimonVenemo, only if the version number is lower than your current version19:55
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: which social apps included, and carrier BS19:55
itsnotabigtruck2and how quickly you get the ota updates19:55
Sazpaimonso if you have PR1.3 flashed, you'll never, ever, ever be able to reflash with the global firmware19:55
itsnotabigtruck2(001 is always first)19:55
Sazpaimonever again19:55
Lava_Croftoh well, flashing 1.3 anyway19:56
Sazpaimonassuming PR1.4 never comes out19:56
Lava_Croftfor all i know, fate smiles up on me (right)19:56
itsnotabigtruck2yeah, everyone should flash pr1.3 001 if they aren't on 001 already19:56
itsnotabigtruck2otherwise it'll be problematic to switch later19:56
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itsnotabigtruck2and some of those regional variant firmwares are true garbage19:56
itsnotabigtruck2i'm not so sure about impossible19:56
itsnotabigtruck2definitely problematic19:56
Sazpaimonif it was possible to downgrade, we would have done it already on pre-harmattan devices19:57
Lava_Croftwell, on paper its possible to downgrade on maemo519:57
Lava_Croftyou can flash 1.3 on a 1.3.1 device, har19:57
AvengenceSazpaimon: for the few things that dont have a replaceable cord, I have a stack of cheap 2pin us-euro adapters that work just right such that the plug ground pin touches the side contacts (germany) or socket ground (france). if the plug is from any other country, I'll make it replaceable.19:57
Venemoitsnotabigtruck2: ok, I'll just download it from Sazpaimon's link then.19:58
SazpaimonAvengence, I prefer to keep my house universal19:58
Sazpaimonmost of my plugs have universal sockets19:58
Sazpaimonor adapters19:58
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: maybe take to twitter orso and try to spread the word about the preffered firmware version to install for all users19:58
Lava_Croftor something19:58
SazpaimonVenemo, keep in mind I dont know where the global EMMC is yet19:58
itsnotabigtruck2problem is that one of the reasons different sockets exist is that they have different voltage and phase19:58
Lava_CroftIt would be really sad if people cant do shit in the future19:58
itsnotabigtruck2e.g. a dual US + europlug or uk = bad idea19:59
itsnotabigtruck2lots of modern electronics are dual voltage, but other things usually aren't19:59
AvengenceSazpaimon: since most devices have detachable cords, I prefer to use as few adapters as possible, keep everything close to native, but I do have shit like 110AC circuits running between rooms on extension cords with US power strips to use a few big transformers to cover all the stuff that's not universal input voltage. that shit is the real issue20:00
derameuroplug and uk plug have no differencies, and most of the computer appliances cope with 100-240V 50-60Hz anyway20:00
VenemoSazpaimon: do I need an EMMC image too?20:00
SazpaimonVenemo, only if you want a fresh phone20:00
Sazpaimonlike, factory fresh20:00
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Sazpaimonwhat's stored on the N9 EMMC anyway20:01
itsnotabigtruck2lol ZogG_laptop @ your tmo post20:01
itsnotabigtruck2Sazpaimon: the default media files20:01
Avengencederam: are you on crack? no difference? UK plug is the hugest oversize retarded plug ever made, nobody else is dumb enough to use that. to add to the stupid, they fuse the plugs and then leave the house wiring ripe for electrical fire with no/minimal protection20:01
deramAvengence: on electrical level20:01
VenemoSazpaimon: noting important, why not have a clean device?20:01
itsnotabigtruck2be advised that flashing the emmc will wipe out your mydocs and settings20:01
itsnotabigtruck2often that's a good thing20:01
itsnotabigtruck2just have your stuff backed up though20:02
Sazpaimonyeah I may do thhat if I can find a PR1.3 global EMMC20:02
Avengencederam: thats not plugs, but iirc uk does have a different line voltage than most other eu countries, though it's within gthe tolerance20:02
Sazpaimon doesnt work20:02
Lava_Croftthats not global i think20:02
Sazpaimonneither does
Sazpaimon(from PR1.2)20:03
Venemoso, what else is considered to be part of 001?20:03
Sazpaimonand for shits and giggles,
itsnotabigtruck2also my nespresso machine manual says pretty clearly that it only works with one voltage20:04
itsnotabigtruck2so that's one reason why dual socket = bad idea :p20:04
Lava_Croftew nespresso20:04
itsnotabigtruck2also, you should be able to flash any emmc, then ashcan the maps20:04
Avengenceremember, in US we have 220 and 110 in same sockets20:04
Sazpaimonout of curiosity20:04
Sazpaimonwhat's the difference between ROW and global images20:04
VenemoSazpaimon, itsnotabigtruck2: how about just using the central european variant? that's supposed to be 001 too20:04
Lava_Croftnespresso and senseo are the enemy of good coffee20:04
Sazpaimonare they exactly the same?20:05
deramAvengence: oh, true UK is in 240 as the standard is actually 23020:05
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: nespresso isn't excellent espresso, but it's on par with or better than most cafes around here20:05
itsnotabigtruck2and the cartridges are expensive but so is espresso at a cafe20:05
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: i know nespresso, we have a machine at work:)20:05
Lava_Croftyes, its like 30eurocents per cart20:05
Lava_Croftat least20:05
Lava_Croftwe were spending like 200e a month on coffee when we still used the nespresso all the time20:06
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derambut isn't that fuse in uk-plug just added protection, and there is another fuse in before the wall wiring?20:06
Lava_Croftbut the taste is just shit too20:06
VenemoSazpaimon: I do not know, but there is a central european variant 1.3 (both emmc and other) on navifirm. how about those?20:06
Avengencemy transformers take something like 200-20V in out a schuko plug, and on front thres 4 US sockets, 2 output perfect 110AC and 2 perfect 220AC. only imperfection is its still 50hz. relay based tap switching is used to keep the output correct even whebn the input swings wildly20:06
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Lava_Croftwe have a WMF now20:06
Lava_Crofthad a Jura before that20:06
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: which cartridges did you use20:06
Lava_Croftat home i use a Bialetti Moka :)20:06
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: the consumer and the business ones20:06
itsnotabigtruck2i meant, which flavors20:06
Lava_Croftthat is, the fatter ones and the disc ones20:06
itsnotabigtruck2only the strong ones are worth bothering with20:06
Lava_Crofter, voluto, ristresso, decaf20:06
Avengencederam: 230V is the norm for most of europe, but the allowed is 220-240 due to countries that are on those edges20:06
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Lava_Croftyes, i always had ristretto20:06
Lava_Croft2 carts20:07
itsnotabigtruck2yeah, the ristretto (black) is good, so is the indriya (olive green)20:07
itsnotabigtruck2volutto is horrible20:07
Lava_Croftbut i use a Moka at home, so i can brew tar at home20:07
Lava_Croftfor machines, i prefer full coffee makers like from WMF or Jura20:07
Lava_Croftthey go from fresh beans to fresh coffee beverage20:07
Venemoitsnotabigtruck2, Sazpaimon: does it matter whether I flash emmc first or rootfs first?20:07
Lava_Croftits not perfect, but the best for taste/time spent on it20:07
Lava_Crofttoo bad those machines are so goddamn expensive20:08
Lava_Croftthe WMF we have was 2800e20:08
deramAvengence: yes... and switching power supplys all nowadays accept full 100-240V20:08
AvengenceI don't understand coffee. tastes terrible and costs WAY too much. its burned beans made into soup, it costs pennies to make!20:08
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: no, you can do them in either order or at the same time20:08
deramat least I haven't seen any not supporting for a while.20:08
itsnotabigtruck2i prefer main then emmc20:08
Avengencecaffeine itself is cheap. when I want a boost, i put a bit in wahtever. I got 400gram for $13 and I don't see myself running out in my life nless I decide to use the jar to poison an army20:09
Lava_CroftI think first main and then emmc is the advertised way too20:09
itsnotabigtruck2also superautomatic espresso machines have a massive up-front cost, and other espresso machines are difficult to use and messy20:09
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: well, yeah20:09
Sazpaimonthe closest thing to a global emmc I can find is
itsnotabigtruck2i'm not sure if the savings from not buying expensive cartridges would make up the upfront cost of a superautomatic in my cost model20:09
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: get a Moka20:09
Lava_Croftbest price/quality you can get:)20:10
VenemoSazpaimon: what's wrong with the central eu variant?20:10
itsnotabigtruck2yeah, i've heard ok things about them, though isn't moka output kind of thin and it doesn't have crema20:10
Avengencederam: GOOD switching power suplies are 100-240V full range. most cheap switching supplies, including those used by the OEMs, still have the 120/230 range switch on the back (though often taped over with warning sticker) which switches the voltage doubler20:10
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itsnotabigtruck2because it's low pressure20:10
Lava_Crofti dont mind the crema20:10
Lava_Croftand mine can do 6 cups of espresso, and theres bigger ones too20:11
SazpaimonVenemo, it's not global, but I guess its the best we can do20:11
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: i prefer to have the control20:11
Lava_Croftlook at it like your computer:)20:11
Lava_Croftnespresso is like apple computer:)20:11
Lava_Croftor senseo20:11
itsnotabigtruck2apart from moka pots and aeropresses, it seems like there's no low initial cost espresso equipment20:11
Lava_Croftfresh flash to 1.3 didnt fix camera either20:12
itsnotabigtruck2and on those coffee forums everybody basically says that you better spend $150 on a grinder and $500 on an espresso machine or you're wasting your time20:12
Lava_Croftnokia care here i really come20:12
Lava_Croftitsnotabigtruck2: haha20:12
Lava_Crofti have a really coffee crazy friend20:12
KozziDevice upade: update interrupted20:12
Lava_Crofthis grinder is this 120 year old wall mount20:12
Lava_Croftand his coffee is god20:12
Lava_Croftthe grinder came from fleemarket:)20:13
Lava_Croftwhat matters more is the kind of beans imo20:13
Lava_Croftsad to see how people ruin good coffee machines by using way too fatty beans20:13
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Venemobtw, do we have a proper changelog for 1.3?20:13
Lava_CroftVenemo: not yet, iirc20:13
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: the changelog would look something like20:13
itsnotabigtruck2- broke inception20:13
Lava_CroftVenemo: and since the Nokia guy talked about 1000 improvements20:14
Lava_CroftI think the changelog might take a while20:14
deramAvengence: haven't seen those around here.. but yes, they might exist20:14
itsnotabigtruck2the only user-facing change i've noticed is that beep mode has an icon on the LP screen and status bar20:14
Lava_Crofti think he just mentioned 1000 improvements so it looks better than apple's usual 200 improvements20:14
Venemowho cares? they could just gimme the commit log frm their scm20:14
itsnotabigtruck2a la silent mode20:14
Lava_Croftthere should be changes to FB and twitter apps20:14
Lava_Croftbut i havent bothered to check, thanks to shit camera20:14
ieatlintwoo.. installing 1.320:15
Lava_Croftguess i have to setup a n900 now20:15
ieatlinti fully expect it to brick my phone20:15
Lava_Croftbut the n900 doesnt sync contacts FROM n920:15
Lava_Croftdirectly, via bluetooth20:15
ieatlintand then have a lumia 900 advert20:15
Lava_Croftthe other way around works fine20:15
Sazpaimonnokia suite wont back up20:15
Sazpaimonits suck at "updating" on the capacity column20:15
Sazpaimonand wont do anything else20:16
Venemolol, windows recognizes the N9 as "Nokia N900 usb phone parent"20:16
Venemoin update mode20:16
Sazpaimonprobably because you have the N900 drives installed20:16
Lava_Crofti wonder if i can get the contacts that i synced to nokias cloud with the n9, onto my n90020:16
Venemonope, flasher installed its own drivers20:16
Venemoanyway, it works.20:16
Lava_Croftn900 does feel a lot sturdier than n9, meh20:20
itsnotabigtruck2but the n9 has no moving parts apart from the sim tray and usb flap20:21
Venemothe N9 has never creaked for me yet20:21
Lava_Croftit creaked here from day120:21
itsnotabigtruck2that usb flap certainly isn't very sturdy but the n900 had its own usb problems20:21
Lava_Crofti can beatbox creak it20:21
itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: where was your n9 made and when did you purchase it20:22
itsnotabigtruck2the early batch finnish units were kinda crappy like that20:22
Lava_Croftoh, not that discussion20:22
Lava_Croftkeep it away from me!20:22
Lava_Crofti read tmo too20:22
Lava_Crofti live in the netherlands, i dont use cheap chinese fake n920:22
Venemoalso, the N9 is a perpetual motion device. N900 is not.20:23
Venemoit can spin for minutes.20:23
itsnotabigtruck2the chinese units seem to actually have a better quality record20:23
Sazpaimondoes anyone think the new beep icon is completely unfitting?20:23
VenemoSazpaimon: dunno, never used beep :D20:23
itsnotabigtruck2nothing wrong with them, besides political considerations about trade balance and nationalism20:23
Sazpaimonits just the silent icon20:23
Sazpaimonbut without the cross through the note20:24
Lava_Croftoh, the political considerations etc dont bother me20:24
Lava_Croftand all that20:24
Lava_Croftim dutch, i go with where the trade/money/profit is20:24
Lava_Croftthe new beep icon suggests that the Ringing mode should have some icon with 3 notes orso20:25
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Lava_Croftso, it seems nokia suite beta still doesnt sync the contacts that i synced to nokia cloud from n920:27
Lava_Croftwhy did i sync them to the cloud then20:27
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deramso you could order them from nokia by asking all your records in their system20:28
deramthey probably fax those to you20:28
Lava_Croftim just looking for a way to get them from the nokia cloud and onto my n90020:28
Lava_Croftbut i guess its a n9-only cloud20:28
VenemoLava_Croft: sync them to google account and sync that from the N900. not sure if it can do that though.20:29
Lava_Croftill try to sync from nokia cloud to Suite beta20:29
Lava_Croftand then from suite to n90020:29
Lava_Croftfrom nokia cloud to n9, from n9 to suite, from suite to n90020:29
Lava_Croftoh, i notice some more 1.3 updates20:30
Lava_Croftnow when adding nokia account, it asks to enable Contacts and Syncing right away20:30
macmaNhow does the update rollout work. based on some IMEI code segmentation?20:31
Sazpaimonokay, looks like I need to apt-get -f instal20:31
Sazpaimonsome packages are still at PR1.220:31
azeemLava_Croft: isn't it just always showing the preferences for the account?20:31
azeemI get contact and syncing on PR1.2 as well20:32
azeemthough no idea about new contact20:32
VenemomacmaN: no. some product codes have different apt repositories20:32
Sazpaimon thats a lot of held back packages20:33
Lava_Croftdamn ovi suite20:36
Lava_Croftit doesnt recognize the colour of my n9:)20:36
Lava_Croftnow it teases me with a blue n920:36
Venemolol, why do you care?20:38
Lava_Croftsuite doesnt sync the contacts at all20:38
Sazpaimonkernel-modules wont update20:40
Sazpaimonbecausie Im using a different directory format for  /lib/modules20:40
VenemoSazpaimon: what're you doin?20:42
Sazpaimonfixing this broken OTA upgrade20:46
VenemoI actually tried upgrading by changing from 005 to 00120:46
VenemoI removed mp-fremantle-005-pr and tried to install -001-pr but apt was crap and unable to fix the dependencies20:47
Venemoat the end, it just bricked the device20:47
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itsnotabigtruck2btw i got inception built on obs, if someone would see if it actually works that would be cool20:49
Venemo"erasing, this may take a while" takes a lot more than a while.20:49
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: did you do the --erase-user-data=secure?20:50
Sazpaimon"a while" is a relative term20:50
itsnotabigtruck2if so, taking a while is expected, it's scrubbing the emmc flash20:50
Venemoyes, and now --erase-mmc=secure20:50
itsnotabigtruck2it's not necessary unless you want to actually obliterate data from there20:50
itsnotabigtruck2so it can't be recovered20:50
Sazpaimonhow many passes does that do20:51
Venemothis stuff actually obliterates the encrypted parititions too. useful when you forget the device lock password20:51
Venemolike I did20:51
itsnotabigtruck2i don't know how many passes or how it works, and nokia hasn't provided any info20:51
Sazpaimonnokia suite is not letting me backup at all20:51
itsnotabigtruck2you could probably do some reverse engineering if you really wanted to20:51
Sazpaimonit just keeps telling me that it's busy20:51
Sazpaimonbusy with what, I dont know20:51
Sazpaimoncapacity finally finished20:52
Sazpaimontelling me that I have over 2000 messages20:52
Avengenceyou only need one pass for flash. the trick to a secure erase with flash is you MUST have direct control. if theres a controller that can remap and you cant turn it off, tehn you CANT do a secure erase20:52
Sazpaimonsince I never delete my texts20:52
itsnotabigtruck2Avengence: yeah, that's the thing20:53
Avengencethe main speed limit is the horrendous erase time for each section of flash. all you need to do is a full drain on every cell and then erase the page to really wipe out what was there, but the erase is the sloooow part20:53
itsnotabigtruck2and since i don't know what nokia's stuff is actually doing20:53
Avengencesince it eMMC, unless they have commands to bypass shit and get to the raw chip, its NOT SECURE20:54
itsnotabigtruck2i'd assume it's probably good enough for casual attackers, but don't rely on it to destroy classified information/your criminal master plan/data that the nsa wants/etc.20:54
itsnotabigtruck2but since it's the only thing easily available, i'd still recommend using it before returning the phone to nokia or selling it20:54
itsnotabigtruck2and then avoid storing your secrets on it20:55
Avengenceyeah, probably at least better than iphone. do the full reset o there that takes an hour, plug it into itunes as new device and go through that crap, then look on it and find old pictures, sms messages, etc. WTF apple20:55
itsnotabigtruck2btw Avengence: did you get inception 0.2 loaded up20:57
Avengencehavent tried20:58
Venemoafter obliterating the stuff, another reflash was necessary. however, now I have a device which seems to be able to boot20:58
Avengenceright now I'm just thinking about full reset after getting all the data out.20:58
VenemoAvengence: if your data is in the cloud anyway, what's the matter?20:59
Avengencei've gone through all teh upgrades, maybe better to do a fresh 1.3 flash, incept or go open mode, then load everything back in20:59
AvengenceVenemo: my mine is mine, its not in any fucking clouds!20:59
Avengencebleah, my data is mine21:00
Avengenceanyway, real most real useful data doesn't sync out in any sane way if at all21:00
AvengencesyncML with a local server and handcrafted profile is the way to get most out, but for the corrupt message mess I need to dump that database, I need to deal with data for a bunvch of apps, see if I can do anything to not redownload all the maps in the world on my capped internet connection, etc21:01
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itsnotabigtruck2Lava_Croft: btw the nespresso is a lot better when you pull short shots21:06
Venemoafter the reflash, it does not find the cellular network21:06
itsnotabigtruck2i.e. less than 30 mL21:07
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: uh oh21:07
itsnotabigtruck2any CMT related errors?21:07
Venemonot that I'm aware of21:07
itsnotabigtruck2try rebooting or toggling flight mode21:07
itsnotabigtruck2and looking in your dmesg and syslog too21:07
Venemotrying rebooting21:08
itsnotabigtruck2you could try flashing with --flash-only=cmt21:08
itsnotabigtruck2and the main image only21:08
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Venemocmt is cell modem firmware?21:08
topi`any idea if there's any harmattan package for netcat?21:08
topi`missing nc from my N9, tough!21:09
itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: yeah21:09
Venemoworks after reboot21:09
Venemoyay! :)21:09
Sazpaimontopi`, should be in the rzr repository21:09
* rzr runs away21:10
VenemoSazpaimon, itsnotabigtruck2: thanks for all your help guys :)21:10
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topi`Sazpaimon: thanks for help, i'll check that out21:10
Sazpaimonyou probably need netcat-traditional21:10
itsnotabigtruck2btw did anyone try that obs incarnation of inception21:10
Venemowhat the hell? seems that the nokia account contact sync thing didn't sync all my contacts. MEH.21:12
Venemoit only contained a fraction of my contacts.21:12
topi`there is no /etc/apt/sources file in N9, but a dir sources.list.d ... which file should I edit for adding repos?21:13
itsnotabigtruck2topi`: put a new file in sources.list.d21:13
itsnotabigtruck2with the apt lines you need21:14
topi`ah, ok :)21:14
itsnotabigtruck2also, get inception 0.2 :p21:14
Lava_CroftVenemo: it synced everything here :<21:15
Lava_Croftexcept it doesnt sync it to anything else:D21:15
rzrtopi`, plz read
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itsnotabigtruck2rzr: would it make sense to submit inception to your repo21:16
Arkenoidoes inception work on 1.3? and there is still no 1.3 for 950?21:21
rzrit is on your obs ?21:22
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itsnotabigtruck2rzr: yeah21:24
itsnotabigtruck2i just transmitted 2 requests21:24
itsnotabigtruck2one of them is a slightly newer hardening-wrapper package (the last that will build for harmattan)21:24
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itsnotabigtruck2and Arkenoi: yes, as long as you use inception 0.221:26
itsnotabigtruck2regarding n950, not sure21:26
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck2: ideally, with no more updates coming, I'd like to set my phone up with a different partition layout. no fat, just ext4, but whole homedir encrypted so stuff that matters is protected. I loose mass storage mode, oh well. I'm guessing such a thing requires openmode and not just inception21:29
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itsnotabigtruck2Avengence: yeah, it's a cool idea21:30
itsnotabigtruck2i thought about that21:30
itsnotabigtruck2it can be done with inception, it's just a lot of work21:30
VenemoAvengence: it may be possible in a similar manner how we could do it on the N900.21:30
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itsnotabigtruck2Venemo: but that doesn't go all the way21:30
jonniyou can format ext4 quite easily.21:30
itsnotabigtruck2my ideal setup involves loading a skeleton firmware installation that pops up a password box21:30
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itsnotabigtruck2it then mounts the crypted partitions, including the rootfs, and boots that21:30
AvengenceI dont know about maemo devices. N9 was my first of the nokia linux devices21:30
itsnotabigtruck2that's a lot of work but it would be ubercool21:31
VenemoI don't remember the exact parameters, but you can boot the meego bootloader on the device without actually flashing it and that can export the emmc to you as a usb device. then you can repartition with gparted.21:31
Venemoat least this worked on the n90021:31
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VenemoAvengence: ah, I didn't know. welcome to the club then :)21:31
AvengenceI was disturbed to say the least to see what is encrypted (a few important bit adn some junk) and what is left in the clear (entire mail database for example)21:31
itsnotabigtruck2yeah, the built in crypto features are useless21:32
itsnotabigtruck2both insecure and insufficient21:32
jonniVenemo: that triggers open mode, but you can just use sfdisk from N9, as its included in default firmware.21:33
Avengencepart of my plan is to trash aegisfs21:33
itsnotabigtruck2keep in mind that aegisfs has some logic that allows programs to check if they're writing to an aegisfs21:33
Venemojonni: aah, I wasn't aware of that21:33
AvengenceI dpont know about the rest of aegis, but I know its encrypted filesystem is NOT what I want to use for my whole homedir21:33
Venemojonni: so, can I actually resize the partitions on the N9?21:33
itsnotabigtruck2it might be possible however to emulate that with a replacement for aegisfs also based on fuse21:33
jonniVenemo: yes you can21:33
itsnotabigtruck2also jonni: the clock stopped a few hours ago :p21:34
macmaNso what on earth. why am i persistently unable to ssh into this fresh n9.21:34
topi`rzr: I get download errors from ... is this URL from the actions of your script?21:34
macmaNPermitRootLogin yes21:34
topi`it seems to be down.21:34
macmaNAcceptUsers ip ranges are correct21:34
macmaNwhat else21:34
itsnotabigtruck2macmaN: log in as developer21:35
itsnotabigtruck2with the password shown by the sdk app21:35
itsnotabigtruck2PermitRootLogin is forced to no by the upstart script21:35
Avengencemachia: sshd is run with a flaghg that diables root login21:35
jonniitsnotabigtruck2: yes I noticed, nice catch to invoke debugger env variables :)21:35
Avengencebleah, that was for macmaN21:35
itsnotabigtruck2there's a workaround but logging in as root isn't a great idea anyway21:35
itsnotabigtruck2so meh21:35
macmaNitsnotabigtruck2: im trying to deposit my public key for user21:35
macmaNdont remember if setting a passwd for user was safe21:36
jonnipeople really should anyways change the root's rootme password to something else. :)21:36
jabishaven't ran into troubles with passwd set for user21:37
Avengencefor the stuff that asks if its running on aegisfs, it should be easy enough to stub that out with a list of answers for who is asking21:37
ZogG_laptopok i found why i can't install update21:38
macmaNahh, "passwd -u user; passwd user" works just fine21:39
infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.21:39
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: somehow installing system-ui of MohammadAG with inception blocking it21:39
jabisoh noes - wifey started updating her niner - no image in navifirm yet - fingers crossed that everything goes good x)21:39
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Kozziso flashing with winflasher without emmc file won't empty my mydocs folder ?21:41
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: itsnotabigtruck2 i can't uppdate it says it's already installed from and would't replace it with last trusted source
jonnijabis: patience is the key there, even if ota update seems to be stuck, it just takes quite a while time even if progress bar isnt moving ;). I updated my N9 over the air today.21:42
jabisjonni: you do remember the last time - stuck with prior kernel and had to figure out how to enter update mode when booting? x)21:43
jabisso I don't have my hopes too high this time around either :D21:44
jonniZogG_laptop: yep, if you have installed /local packages over nokia packages, and want ota update, you first need to uninstall/reinstall nokia packages back.21:44
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jonnijabis: I remember, this time everything went smoothly for me... it only took 1-2hours, almost lost my patience after 30 mins :)21:45
jabis45% here after ~25mins21:45
ZogG_laptopjonni: yeah the problem it priors local more than official and can't uninstall or update to official =)21:46
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: any way to solve it21:46
jonniZogG_laptop: thats why I always install my custom packages as and not as local, that way ota updates always work :)21:47
ZogG_laptopjonni: how can i do it?21:49
ZogG_laptopjonni: or it's too late?21:49
jonniZogG_laptop: you could ofcourse just edit refhashlist and restok.conf by hand, and resign the changes (if you know howto).21:50
ZogG_laptopmay i incept without the deb again changing the source?21:50
ZogG_laptopjonni: i would like to see howto or some help from you21:50
DocScrutinizer51please remind me as I've forgotton: what exactly was the huge user benefit of all this aegis c***p?21:51
jonniZogG_laptop: itsnotabigtruck2 most likely can help you on that. I cannot on political reasons.21:51
ZogG_laptopafter i change file do i need to rehash or something21:51
ZogG_laptophe is not here =P21:51
ZogG_laptopjonni: at least where is restok file is?21:54
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: i just got back21:54
itsnotabigtruck2uninstall it then reinstall it21:54
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i can't uninstall it that's the problem21:54
itsnotabigtruck2what is 'it' again21:54
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itsnotabigtruck2oh great21:55
itsnotabigtruck2option a) flash it21:55
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: without flashing?21:56
itsnotabigtruck2option b) uninstall system-ui, forcing the dependencies, then install the original from apt --- could be a bad idea, depending on whether anything bad happens when you uninstall system-ui21:56
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i need to change it to other source21:56
itsnotabigtruck2option c) edit /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf and change the source of system-ui to
ZogG_laptopit doesn't give me to uninstall it21:56
itsnotabigtruck2resign it using ariadne + accli -c tcb-sign21:56
itsnotabigtruck2you uninstall it through the terminal21:56
itsnotabigtruck2NOT the gui21:56
itsnotabigtruck2option c seems like the best approach apart from flashing21:57
itsnotabigtruck2but you're better off flashing21:57
itsnotabigtruck2before touching restok.conf you need to make damned sure that you have inception installed and working21:57
ZogG_laptopno flashing till it's dead end21:57
itsnotabigtruck2including opensh if you haven't upgraded to 0.221:57
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i have too much aps from debs i'll ned to reinstall one by one =\21:57
itsnotabigtruck2ok, then better get working21:58
DocScrutinizer51flash friggin android, way less trouble than acme-free "maemo" harmattan21:58
Sazpaimonwhy use opensh or whatever that replacement is when you can use sudo21:58
itsnotabigtruck2a) ariadne vi /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf21:58
DocScrutinizer51wait, dump your device prior to that21:58
itsnotabigtruck2b) / system-ui <enter>21:58
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i need to install new inception right?21:58
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: for now it's pr1.2 and first inception21:58
itsnotabigtruck2c) <insert>, then position cursor near
itsnotabigtruck2backspace out the /local part21:59
itsnotabigtruck2d) <esc> <shift>+ZZ21:59
itsnotabigtruck2e) ariadne accli -c tcb-sign -F /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf < /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf21:59
itsnotabigtruck2and yeah, upgrade inception and re-run pasiv first21:59
itsnotabigtruck2once you edit restok.conf you need to successfully resign it with the ariadne accli command immediately afterward22:00
itsnotabigtruck2do NOT reboot or install a package in between22:00
itsnotabigtruck2doing so will force a reflash22:00
itsnotabigtruck2so that's why it's vital that you be sure inception is ready to go before you do it22:00
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: and no way to do it with old inception?22:01
itsnotabigtruck2you can do it with either22:01
itsnotabigtruck2the instructions i gave are for new inception22:01
itsnotabigtruck2because they involve the ariadne command22:01
itsnotabigtruck2Sazpaimon: why use sudo when you can use ariadne :p sudo is a bad choice because it's totally oblivious to aegis22:01
itsnotabigtruck2because it's entirely based around regular old unix users22:01
itsnotabigtruck2it has a lot more features but they aren't well adapted to harmattan or aegis22:02
jonnijust use opensh if your in pr1.222:02
ZogG_laptopreflash after all, aegis restarted the phone =)22:02
itsnotabigtruck2ariadne provides the basics, and no one really needs more than the basics in this case22:02
itsnotabigtruck2and, what do you mean ZogG_laptop22:03
ZogG_laptopjonni: i'm in pr1.2 with opensh but itsnotabigtruck2 saying i can't sighn /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf22:03
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: wait what22:03
itsnotabigtruck2i don't think i said that22:03
itsnotabigtruck2if you're in opensh22:03
jonniZogG_laptop: ofcourse you can22:03
itsnotabigtruck2follow the steps i gave but remove the ariadne at the beginning of the cmds that involve that22:03
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Avengencenice, amazon has the projector I want on sale. my free month of amazon prime has a couple days left on it, so free 2 day ship. not quite fast enough though, got to send it to my wife before she flies out of the US friday so she can bring it to me. $4 for the 1day shipping, guranteed to arrive thursday. cha ching22:03
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: that's what i asked about pr1.2 and old inception22:03
ZogG_laptoptoo late22:04
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: well, why  couldn't you just upgrade it before starting22:04
itsnotabigtruck2it works on pr1.2 you know22:04
itsnotabigtruck2anyway, how's it too late?22:04
itsnotabigtruck2you have opensh22:04
ZogG_laptopDevice not working properly msg =)22:04
itsnotabigtruck2why did you reboot it?22:04
ZogG_laptopi didn't22:04
itsnotabigtruck2you said "aegis rebooted it" but i'm not sure what you mean22:04
ZogG_laptopaegis did22:04
Avengenceof course the projector is half the price in the US as it is in europe, so that savings almost covers the cost of her plane ticket22:04
itsnotabigtruck2bloody hell22:04
ZogG_laptopi changed restok.conf and didn't sign tried to reinstall like that22:05
itsnotabigtruck2i haven't ever experienced anything like that, so either you had an unfortunate experience or you didn't carefully follow my instructions22:05
itsnotabigtruck2oh, well there you go22:05
itsnotabigtruck2i didn't mention all those warnings for shits and giggles22:05
ZogG_laptopi didn't follow last step22:05
* itsnotabigtruck2 sighs22:05
itsnotabigtruck2well, time to flash it then22:05
jabisyou should always follow the instruction given, to the letter x)22:05
ZogG_laptop/usr/sbin/enter_malf: Entering MALF state SECURITY Failed '/var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf' signature check22:05
itsnotabigtruck2don't flash the emmc, you can keep the rest of your stuff22:05
itsnotabigtruck2and yeah, what happened is that you installed a package then without resigning it22:06
itsnotabigtruck2which is the cardinal thing you must never ever ever do22:06
ZogG_laptopjabis: true i was confused about  ariadne22:06
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itsnotabigtruck2when you edit refhashlist/restok.conf you're in a no-man's land until you get everything signed again22:06
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: does NSU flash emmc?22:07
itsnotabigtruck2because they're checked every time aegis is reloaded22:07
itsnotabigtruck2no, but just use flasher22:07
itsnotabigtruck2forget nsu22:07
itsnotabigtruck2follow the guide i posted on tmo22:07
ZogG_laptopi never used it on linux for n9 only n90022:07
itsnotabigtruck2but nsu doesn't work on linux...22:07
itsnotabigtruck2if you're on linux you can't use nsu, if you're on windows there's no reason to use nsu over flasher22:07
ZogG_laptopi'm on linux but i can boot into win22:08
infobotsomebody said flashing was
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ZogG_laptopso i need to download the image as well?22:09
itsnotabigtruck2heh, looks ike someone wikified my post22:09
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: is that wiki is your post?22:10
itsnotabigtruck2it's what i posted on tmo, turned into wiki form by someone else22:10
Sazpaimon[15:01] <itsnotabigtruck2> Sazpaimon: why use sudo when you can use ariadne :p sudo is a bad choice because it's totally oblivious to aegis22:10
Sazpaimonsudo is only 4 letters22:10
Sazpaimonariadne, i cant even begin to remember how to spell that22:11
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: and no bin for flasher only packages, gonna check what's inside22:11
Sazpaimonhell, opensh was a pain to type as well22:11
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: well anyway, sorry if i didn't emphasize that enough22:11
itsnotabigtruck2i know flashing is pretty time consuming and annoying22:12
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i have gentoo here22:12
ZogG_laptopi don't remmeber how i flashed n900 as it was long time ago22:12
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck2: i think it would be easy to go to windows22:13
itsnotabigtruck2just do what you need to do...22:13
ZogG_laptopman gotta do what he needs to do lallalalalala22:13
itsnotabigtruck2rzr: did you look into importing those packages22:14
jabis30minutes at 90% losing my patience x)22:17
KozziVenemo: did you find out how to get cellular connections ?22:18
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jabiswhy aren't the 64GB North/Central european images not in navifirm - who's holding 'em back >.<22:22
rzritsnotabigtruck, yes i just did that22:22
Kozzianyone know how to fix this: sim not allowed MM #322:23
KozziContact your network service provider for details22:23
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, did yu had this warning thing i do?22:28
VenemoKozzi: yep, reboot :)22:28
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Venemook. I added a bunch of contacts from my old .vcf files22:29
Venemohow do I get the N9 to sync these new guys up to my nokia account?22:29
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itsnotabigtruck2ZogG: which warning22:30
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KozziVenemo: the third reboot helped with mine22:32
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VenemoKozzi: mine needed only one.22:32
Kozzithese updates are helpful with streamlining what apps I need22:32
itsnotabigtruck2looks like the usual suspects are back to badmouthing inception22:33
* itsnotabigtruck2 sighs22:33
Kozzialways have to reinstall them, so it's a good case to see what is really important :D22:33
itsnotabigtruck2oh, btw: anyone with rzr's repo can now pkgmgr install -p inception22:35
itsnotabigtruck2and Kozzi: yeah, definitely22:35
itsnotabigtruck2that's why i'm usually not so concerned about losing apps, because it's a good way to clean out the stuff that isn't needed22:35
Venemoany idea about the syncing thing?22:36
KozziVenemo isn't Nokia sync broken ?22:36
Venemoitsnotabigtruck2: +122:37
KozziI haven't been able to sync anything into or back from nokia sync22:37
VenemoKozzi: it works, but I don't know how to make it sync up the imported contacts too22:37
jabisstill @ 90% -.-22:39
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, which version did you use btw from navit?22:41
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: pr1.3 is 40.x22:42
itsnotabigtruck2grab that22:42
ZogG_laptopyeas but i want global 00122:42
KozziZogG_laptop: use that one22:43
ZogG_laptopKozzi, what version is it?22:43
KozziPR1.3 variant 00122:43
ZogG_laptopno country or operator specifications?22:43
Sniper_swebest way to completly remove app? apt-get remove --purge ?22:44
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: just install it :p22:44
ZogG_laptopdamn it's 1.2 gb22:44
itsnotabigtruck2Sniper_swe: yeah22:44
ZogG_laptoptill i get it would take time =\22:44
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: yeah, they're big22:44
Kozzino idea, that's the version everybody seems to use and it has finnish language :|22:44
itsnotabigtruck2it has all the languages22:44
itsnotabigtruck2i think22:44
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, i jsut didn't do one command =)22:44
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: yeah but there were only 2 steps to the procedure and you skipped the most important one :p22:45
itsnotabigtruck2it's not one command, it's the command22:45
Venemo~seen w00t_22:45
infobotw00t_ <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 301d 23h 23m 2s ago, saying: 'GeneralAntilles: the screen you swipe away? after double tap/pressing power?'.22:45
ZogG_laptopit's coz i misunderstood you22:45
ZogG_laptopi asked you if i NEED to update to inception 0.222:45
ZogG_laptopi thought airdine or what's the name is tool that do X and i can't do it with old inception22:46
jabisKozzi: why isn't that listed in NaviFirm?22:46
ZogG_laptopthat' all22:46
Kozzijabis: I have no idea, I had to browse this channel for that link22:46
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itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: i said you could use either old inception or new inception and suggested that you upgrade inception first22:47
itsnotabigtruck2first, meaning before you did the file edit22:47
itsnotabigtruck2i also told you specifically not to install packages after doing the edit22:47
Kozziit's weird that navifirm doesn't have pr1.3 for 059J187 (Finnish variant) but ota update is available22:47
itsnotabigtruck2Kozzi: it's because the images are distributed by product code, while the ota updates are distributed by region code22:47
itsnotabigtruck2and nokia's firmware update distribution is totally bollocksed22:48
itsnotabigtruck2just download the 001 image for any product code (they're all the same)22:48
Kozzioh ok good to know22:48
Kozzithere must be something wrong with ovi store22:49
Kozzinone failed download so far and I have 10 apps in queue with 8 apps installed22:49
jabisso I should've downloaded the Belarus variant to get the firmware - cool to know ^^22:50
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, i don't blame you, i blame me, i just misunderstood22:51
jabisupdate still @90% jonni was your update stuck at the same percent for the longer period?22:51
itsnotabigtruck2jabis: jonni probably updated looooong ago, he's nokia staff :p22:52
ZogG_laptopsneaky one22:52
jabisitsnotabigtruck2: we were talking about this just about an hour ago :)22:53
ZogG_laptopi just never updated with ota =\22:53
itsnotabigtruck2MohammadAG probably ought to plaster some warnings onto the system-ui thread22:53
itsnotabigtruck2i just realized an alternate way to do this: incept the new system-ui over the hacked one22:53
itsnotabigtruck2then do the rest of the system update22:53
itsnotabigtruck2that should take care of everything somewhat cleanly22:54
merlin1991itsnotabigtruck2: well anything replacing system components with inception is bound to wrek havok when a nokia provided update arrives :/22:54
itsnotabigtruck2you'd do that with something like: apt-get -d --reinstall install system-ui; incept /var/cache/apt/archives/system-ui_blah_armel.deb22:54
Kozziwas there a sound when you move something into folder before ?22:55
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, lol i wanted to incept new one at the begining btw22:55
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, but didnt know how to get deb, as i'm not used for deb distros that much22:55
itsnotabigtruck2you're right, i didn't read carefully either22:56
ZogG_laptopprobably it's something like atp-get download or something22:56
itsnotabigtruck2i was going along the lines of what jonni suggested (my steps were to modify&resign)22:56
jabisZogG_laptop: I wouldn't've updated yet - just my wife went on with the OTA and now I'll need to fix her phone - again x)22:56
ZogG_laptopjalast time i managed to switch to 001 from command line22:56
ZogG_laptopi changed repo22:56
jabisapt-get -d is download only22:56
ZogG_laptopdeleted all the conflict packages one by one while only terminal was working22:57
ZogG_laptopand installed meta22:57
ZogG_laptopjabis, it's too late22:57
jonnijabis: yes procentage was stuck about and hour before it continued. patience is the key.22:57
ZogG_laptoprootfs delete all the apps as well right? =\22:57
itsnotabigtruck2not specifying the -d will have unpleasant results22:57
Sazpaimonso like22:57
itsnotabigtruck2yeah, it's important that you specify the -d22:58
Sazpaimonhow can i transfer smses from a csv to my N922:58
jonnijabis: I've seen so many people pressing powerswitch becuase they didnt have the patience to wait the update through :)22:58
Sazpaimonim looking at all my old symbian smses, and they seem to be corrupted22:58
itsnotabigtruck2doesn't the utility that made the CSV have a way to recover them too22:58
Sazpaimonlike, they get randomly cut off22:58
Sazpaimoni cant remember what I used, might have been pc suite22:58
ZogG_laptopjonni, it's a pitty your backup manager is not out yet, competition started - time to release =P22:58
jabisjonni: going on from 21.30 the update - so 90 minutes altogether - I'll give it another hour22:58
Sazpaimoni also need to delete the old messages so they dont get duplicated when I restore them22:59
jabiswrite a script that 1) dumps the messages from tracker-database to a file 2) truncates the table and 3) reads in the messagedata from your csv into it - shouldn't be too hard23:01
Sazpaimonfirst i gotta figure out why the messages are cut off23:01
Kozziyup jonni's backup manager would be really handy in this situation23:01
Sazpaimonmaybe when I first imported them to my N90023:01
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Sazpaimonalso nokia suite is still not letting me back up23:02
Sazpaimonkeeps telling me that it's busy23:02
Sazpaimonbusy doing what i dont know23:02
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jabisSazpaimon: tracker-sparql -q "select nie:plainTextContent(?d) where {?d a nmo:SMSMessage}" > messages.txt23:08
jabisSazpaimon: for the first part23:08
Kozzianyone succeeded in syncing contacts with nokia suite ?23:09
Sazpaimonright now I just want nokia suite to tell me what it's busy doing23:09
Sazpaimonso i can back up23:09
sahib_itsnotabigtruck2: does inception still work in 1.3 or has Nokia patched up aegis?23:09
itsnotabigtruck2sahib_: both23:10
Sazpaimonis that so hard to ask23:10
itsnotabigtruck2they patched against the old version so i released the new version23:10
sahib_itsnotabigtruck2: nice one :-)23:10
jabisitsnotabigtruck2: btw. long overdue thanks - your inceptiveness23:11
itsnotabigtruck2no prob :)23:12
Sazpaimonmsyncd seems to be doing stuff so I guess nokia suite is doing *something*23:13
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itsnotabigtruck2Kozzi: it was inevitable, but still, a real shame23:24
Sazpaimonis Jyrki still at nokia?23:24
itsnotabigtruck2i hope everyone who got dumped by the truckload by nokia got new work lined up ahead of time23:24
Kozziman it's really sad reading this:!/melsop7423:24
itsnotabigtruck2though all the nokia layoffs are going to probably cause a glut of unemployed programmers in fnland23:24
itsnotabigtruck2*finland   therefore causing a problem lining up said new work23:24
itsnotabigtruck2also now there won't be any new aegis updates for me to counter :(23:25
Tronicitsnotabigtruck2: Surprisingly, there still is a lot of shortage of programmers.23:25
itsnotabigtruck2Tronic: but most of the nokia layoffs haven't happened yet23:26
itsnotabigtruck2as far as i know23:26
itsnotabigtruck2wouldn't that mean that said shortage is likely going to dry up soon?23:26
TronicA lot already have but yes, you have a point there. More importantly, though, programmers are highly specialized and the people from Nokia cannot enter any job.23:26
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TronicSo we'll have a lot of unemployed Symbian programmers who need to retrain for something else.23:27
itsnotabigtruck2well, real programmers aren't /that/ specialized23:28
itsnotabigtruck2(yeah yeah, no true scotsman etc. :p)23:28
itsnotabigtruck2if one's only capable of doing symbian they have more problems than just being out of a nokia job23:28
TronicTwo cities are in pretty big trouble. Oulu, a northern university center where Nokia and other tech companies have been the major employers, and Salo, a small town and the birth place of Nokia (and Nokia obviously being a huge employer there).23:29
sahib_Tronic: I guess that will have a devastating effect on the local economies, the lay-offs and relative decline of Nokia...23:29
ZogG_laptopi think when you ar high level of programming something you can program and learn a lot of stuff easily23:29
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TronicI guess it will also have a major impact on the commercial building market shortly, once those Nokia buildings all around the country start going on sale.23:30
Avengencethere's a more important factor than just the language and that's waht are you programming. how many of those former nokia people want to go write dry business apps? not most, but those are a bunch of the jobs out there23:31
petteri heheh, i think i'll buy one of the espoo hq then :P23:31
Tronic10000+ unemployed we can handle but there is going to be *a lot* of empty office space with no-one to use it.23:31
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TronicAlso, no-one knows the total number of Nokia layoffs at this point.23:32
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TronicThe company has always used subcontractors a lot and when Elop started firing people, many of them were actually moved to Accidenture rather than fired directly from Nokia. Needless to say, many of them, in addition to the ones already working for those contractors, have been fired since.23:33
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itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: did you manage to get your stuff sorted out?23:33
itsnotabigtruck2also, < lol23:34
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, nope, need to redownload firmware as i have 2 ssd and each one of them 64gb and windows takes about 50, so i had no free space there23:38
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itsnotabigtruck2aw, lame23:39
ZogG_laptopsays 18 min till end23:39
itsnotabigtruck2maybe you can economize some space somehow23:39
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, tell me about it, i would buy 2 or 4 new ssd after prices would drop a little as well i have friend from intel with discount23:39
SpeedEvilZogG_laptop: Got a SD slot?23:40
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, i just need mkfs.ext4 /dev/hda && emerge gentoo =)23:40
ZogG_laptopSpeedEvil, yes, but i deleted few stuff already23:40
ZogG_laptopbtw anyone knows if flickr keeps original images or not?23:40
itsnotabigtruck2around black friday last year there were some pretty good rebate deals on intel 320s23:41
SpeedEvilBut you can only get them back if you pay them23:41
itsnotabigtruck2i got a 160gb for about $16023:41
itsnotabigtruck2$1 a gig ain't bad for ssd23:41
ZogG_laptopso i can redownload them anytime and they would be the same as original one?23:41
SpeedEvilIf you pay for an account.23:41
Avengencethat still sound stupid expensive23:41
itsnotabigtruck2Avengence: but they're faaaaaast23:41
SpeedEvilOtherwise, you can only get the 1024x768 I think23:41
SpeedEvilAlso - I point at megaupload.23:41
Avengencelast time I paid $160 for a 160gb drive was in 200223:41
ZogG_laptopSpeedEvil, and free doesn't right?23:41
itsnotabigtruck2ZogG_laptop: flickr is for pretentious photographers23:42
Avengencenow I buy a 2TB for less than $10023:42
itsnotabigtruck2if you aren't a photographer, and/or you aren't pretentious, don't use flickr23:42
SpeedEvilZogG_laptop: yes23:42
SpeedEvilFlickr is annoying23:42
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Avengencesdd is really fast until you fill it, ten its dog slow until its dead in a few month. garbage23:42
itsnotabigtruck2flickr makes it deliberately difficult to get at high res images23:42
itsnotabigtruck2because photographers are generally against high res anything23:42
itsnotabigtruck2since they're in it for money, not to share their cool work23:42
jabisstill @90%23:42
itsnotabigtruck2and high res = high quality reproduction23:42
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itsnotabigtruck2Avengence: get up to date23:43
itsnotabigtruck2you need an os that supports the TRIM command23:43
AvengenceALL the photosharing sites make it hard to get at high res so you have to PAY them23:43
rzr<Avengence> sdd is really fast until you fill it, ten its dog slow until its dead in a few month. garbage23:44
rzrplease explain23:44
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck2: TrIM doesnt do shit to deal with horrendous erase times, it only works if you have huge idle periods and only if you have sufficient free space23:44
rzri recently won a ssd drive and using it for a few weeks23:44
itsnotabigtruck2rzr: when you write something to a sector on an SSD, it maps it to an empty flash block23:44
Avengenceand its just masking the problem23:44
itsnotabigtruck2if you write something to the same sector, it maps it to a new empty flash block23:44
Avengenceflash mapped to pretend to be a spinning disk is for motherfucking RETARDS23:44
itsnotabigtruck2because erasing+writing is slower than just writing23:44
itsnotabigtruck2the drive doesn't know when a sector doesn't need to be preserved anymore, so it keeps the corresponding flash block around without erasing it23:45
Avengenceflash needs to be treated VERY differently. you need to use a filesystem made for flash to make it even acceptable in terms of performance and reliabillity23:45
rzri didnt know about that yet... slower than mecanical drives ?23:45
itsnotabigtruck2that means eventually all your writes become erase-writes23:45
itsnotabigtruck2however, trim solves that23:45
itsnotabigtruck2trim allows the os to mark sectors as deallocated when files are deleted or overwritten23:45
itsnotabigtruck2that means the drive can erase them in advance23:46
itsnotabigtruck2meaning that writes are just writes, not erase-writes, even after extended use23:46
itsnotabigtruck2but not every os knows about trim23:46
WntIs there any applications or tricks to start the flashlight from the lock screen on N9?23:46
itsnotabigtruck2windows < 7 doesn't support trim, and on linux you need a quite recent kernel23:46
Avengencerzr: erase times for flash block are measure in HUNDREDS of milliseconds. during the erase, the chip cant do ANYTHING unless it has a dedicated erase, in which ase some areas are readable during the erase23:46
itsnotabigtruck2also if you use encryption software you need a crypto program that doesn't interfere with TRIM23:46
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: But you don't get 'raw' 200G flash drives.23:47
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: so you can't do proper flash filesystems.23:47
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: Point at one (for example) SATA 'raw' flash drive.23:47
SpeedEvilI'd love 'raw' flash SDs23:47
AvengenceSpeedEvil: that's my point. when those are available then I'll be inerested.23:47
itsnotabigtruck2is it even possible to do that through the existing interfaces23:47
Avengencethey do exist but prohibitively expensive for special purposes23:48
itsnotabigtruck2also i don't think windows knows about flash devices23:48
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: In principle, probably23:48
itsnotabigtruck2linux does but it's pretty awkward and only used for embedded devices23:48
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: It would be a hack though, I don't think there are nice solutions.23:48
macmaNwhere's the PR1.3 changelog23:48
itsnotabigtruck2and it's easy on linux to screw up an MTD (memory technology device) hard23:49
Avengenceraw flash on ata would need a command extension be be done nice, but could be done now with encapsulation23:49
itsnotabigtruck2macmaN: there is none23:49
itsnotabigtruck2there's a fan-made list on a tmo thread23:49
SpeedEvilAlso raw flash has the large issue that it would not be portable23:49
macmaNgreat. just a claim of "1000 improvements"23:49
itsnotabigtruck2i think about 500 of those are insignificant tweaks to aegis :p23:50
macmaNyoure da bomb itsnotabigtruck2 btw23:50
rzreach changes is a single bit23:50
Avengencewindows desktop didnt know about flash. windows CE knows about flash filesystems and has some support, and there are 3rd party better filesystems for it too. i vaguely remember the TFAT designed first as a crappy flash filesystem for CE is now in desktop windows (at least some versions)23:50
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck, SpeedEvil i'm not real photographer but i bought 550D to learn a little bit and want to kee originals, but do not want trash hard disk23:50
* SpeedEvil imagines someone dropped the root key on there.23:50
itsnotabigtruck2windows ce isn't windows23:51
itsnotabigtruck2if you've ever done anything with wince that becomes painfully obvious23:51
itsnotabigtruck2it'll make you wince ;)23:51
ZogG_laptopjonni, btw i wonder how it would be problematic to ex-nokians to help with cssu and community?23:51
Avengencei've winced too long and hard23:52
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ??  on where?23:52
Avengencei know that difference in kernel, I also know the api similarity between win32 and wince, and I know which things have been shared which way when23:52
Avengencei wish I didn't23:52
itsnotabigtruck2the APIs are only similar enough to get one into trouble23:53
itsnotabigtruck2making it really really painful to port from windows to wince23:53
Avengencesome are massive copy n paste23:53
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: latest firmware - I was being silly.23:53
itsnotabigtruck2also lol rzr23:53
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Avengencethe smartcard stuff is barely changed for example23:54
itsnotabigtruck2well, the windows smart card api's almost an "industry standard" now23:54
itsnotabigtruck2the linux smart card library's api is a copy-paste from windows too23:55
Avengencebit desktop and ce have a only half working smartcard subsystem. it gets rather obvious when you see how large a code block is wrapped in a #if 0/#endif23:55
Avengencealmost all that code came from a hardware vendor along with device drivers. at least in wince, many hardware subsystems are a mismatch of code taken from various chip and board makers23:56
Sazpaimonoh and by the way, nokia suite STILL wont let me back up23:56
Sazpaimon"herp derp Im still busy"23:56
itsnotabigtruck2Sazpaimon: lol23:56
itsnotabigtruck2can't you exit/kill it and start it again23:56
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck2, yes, i can, and I have'23:56
Sazpaimonthis is my 10th try23:56
Sazpaimonon both rebooting the phone and restarting nokia suite23:56
itsnotabigtruck2it's kind of a wonky piece of software but it's never been that bad imx23:57
Sazpaimonmaybe the fact that I have over 3000 smses is causing it23:57
itsnotabigtruck2not over nine thousand?23:57
Sazpaimonactually over 380023:57
Sazpaimonno, sadly my SMS library only goes back to 200923:57
AvengenceI ended up writting around a huge portion of code and also essentially rewritten (minus bugs) everythign that was #ifdefed out, all into the driver. in the end the driver for the smartcard reader could be used in regular of full bypass mode b/c only i full bypass did it work right23:57
azeemmy sms library goes to 2001, but it's in a custom format, hrm23:58
Avengencethen of course we wrote all the capi stuff both to go to pcsc and to go bypass route and eveyrthing has to use our capi provider to to pcsc bypass and have proper card operation23:58
itsnotabigtruck2at per-message rates that ends up being almost $1000 in smses23:59
itsnotabigtruck2damned carriers23:59
azeemanybody else seen problems with SMS conversations messed up after the PR1.3 update?23:59
azeemsomebody reported an issue, wonder whether it's a PR1.3 issue or local23:59
Avengenceoh damn am I glad to say I'm not a part of that for quite a long time now. smartcards are a pita becausae of FRENCH. and everything elsse around them ends up being broken/crappy23:59

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