IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-06-23

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tehdelyi've been using mfe + hosted zimbra as my "cloud" service for years00:06
tehdelyworks real well00:06
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Venemohey again00:10
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itsnotabigtruckwell, this is a bit of a clusterfuck03:39
itsnotabigtruckbeford: everything about the community awards03:43
itsnotabigtruckc.f. the 24 page thread about the aftermath03:43
itsnotabigtruckanyone who thinks the arrangement was crooked needs to speak up on TMO03:45
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ashfjjfjfMorning. Is there a way of getting the typed password for a wifi network set up? I cannot recall the password anymore, and I would like to use the netwotk on my laptop, Unfortunately, my friend is sleeping, so I am unable to even ask again. :/08:49
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befordi believe theres an app for that in the forum09:03
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gabriel9here is something interesting:
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ladogayesterday i packaged yle-dl script for harmattan. it installs fine from command line, but when i try to install it from harmattan UI the system tells me "Can't install" "Invalid installation package"12:19
ladogaso what's the problem12:20
ladogaalso once installed it doesn't appear in Applications->Manage applications' list of installed packages12:23
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ladogaany help appreciated12:24
ladogaby harmattan UI i mean clicking .deb file from file box, fennec or similar12:32
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ladogarzr: any ideas on above?13:00
rzrSection: user/* ?13:05
rzrin debian/control ?13:05
rzrladoga, i'll try it later13:06
ladogaso should i put "Section: user/*" there? now it has "Section: web"13:07
ladogathanks, no hurry13:08
ladogawhile I'm at it I might change Priority: to extra too. Seems more fitting.13:11
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rzrladoga, do u use git or other vc ?13:26
ladogano. I'm complete noob in this13:26
ladogajust needed this script myself so decided to package it13:27
ladogabut I'm sure many finnish users find it very useful13:27
rzrwell i am trying to rebuilding it the way it is13:28
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rzris this on maemo wiki ?13:30
ladogai don't know...just made it for myself13:31
ladogafeel free to add into wiki if there's something useful13:32
rzrwhere is pstree coming from  ?13:33
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rzrok built yle-dl_0.0.0-0~rzr1_all.deb13:34
rzrnow i have to test it13:34
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ladogapstree comes from original source
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rzrok i see13:41
ladogathose N9 notes i made for myself had one missing corrected it13:42
ladogai just uploaded it there as a friend needed help on something13:42
ladogaand forgot about it13:42
rzrAegis Warning: Duplicate hash entries for 'usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Crypto/Cipher/' (/var/cache/apt/archives/python-crypto_2.1.0-2+maemo4+0m6_armel.deb)13:43
ladogayes but thats something python-crypto is doing?13:45
ladogait's in nokia blame them:)13:45
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rzrany url to test ? w/ that downloader13:46
ladogai'll check if i can find some that work abroad13:46
ladogamany of these videos are restricted to finland only13:46
ladogatho it might work either way13:46
rzrwell it installed at least on mine13:46
ladogahavent tested it outside finland13:47
rzryle-dl -o video.flv13:47
rzrworking from france !13:47
ladoga :) nice13:48
rzri can see that blonde speaker13:49
ladogait says on the page, "only viewable from finland"13:49
ladoga :) so ule-dl circumverents that protection...very good13:49
rzrapp can be installed smoothly from shared repo using apt13:49
ladogayes, dpkg worked so apt works, just not by clicking in UI13:50
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rzrit's a bit risky since there are some dependencies13:50
rzri made a litle changes13:52
rzrmake clean on pstree13:52
rzrmake distclean13:52
ladogashould i add those in my rules file?13:54
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ladogarzr...thanks for tip about Section:user/web now it works as supposed :)14:11
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rzryou welcome14:14
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rzrhi ZogG14:26
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ZogG_laptoprzr: you don't have thank button btw14:32
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rzrZogG, i dont care , do you ? :)14:42
ZogG_laptopthose people mostly count thanks to see how important person is, i still don't know hat Estel have done?14:46
rzrwant i want to know is how pple will use those toys14:50
ZogG_laptoppeople who didn't use it to develp or maintain that much before wouldn't do it after =)14:51
ZogG_laptoplet's say you deserve more than me and he didn't do more than i =)14:53
ZogG_laptopchem|st: Estel is sure good at talking14:53
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jonnitmo seems to be down for me.15:02
ZogG_laptopjonni: the story is simple, you remember community award judged by council? 4 of 5 councils put their names too and 4 of 4 names got in win list15:04
rzrabout the council job, do you know what is it actually ?15:04
ZogG_laptopme? sort of15:05
jonniyes, I've been following the story, nokia should just have given the devices to all council, and only give 20 CA prizes and all this bitching would be smaller.15:05
ZogG_laptopthey do hard job, at least councils before15:05
ZogG_laptopjonni: maybe, but it's not bitching, it's not like i would get this device, i just care coz it's wrong15:06
ZogG_laptopand no prev councils didn't do it for device or something and didn't get ones for being council15:06
jonniwell yes community awards was more like maemo awards than harmattan awards, even my application was better that some some of the old maemo ones. But its ofcourse matter of opinions. Most of the council were voted by maemo people, thus they have maemo eyeglasses on, and dont prefer harmattan that much.15:09
jonnibut in my eyes decisions have been made, and its not worth of second guessing. There still is the coding competition left for 25 new devices. And maybe someday there will be yet another community awards, atleast we can have our fingers crossed.15:11
jonniI can confess that I'm wearing harmattan eyeglasses, since I wasn't following fremantle community that much at all.15:13
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rzrat the same time inception and nitdroid are not projects in the interest of nokia ... so well we're already in bad shape15:25
rzractually we're in no shape at all15:25
jonniIn the other hand, if it would be someones job to follow and improve the community, some people would just receive devices outside the competition without questions. But nowadays marketing efforts are mostly targeting WP. This 100 devices did revive TMO quite a bit, but still its peanuts.15:25
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ladoganokia doesn't seem to know itself what's in interest of nokia :)15:54
ladogajudging by their actions from last year almost everything they do seems to have gone against their own interests15:55
ladogaand well in line with MS interests15:55
ladogaonly sad thing about it is that N9 is the best phone for many...otherwise I would not care at all15:57
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ladogabut there is always community support and that is most important.16:01
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ZogG_laptopladoga: when some people don't care if price goes to someone worthy but not them it's ok, but some people don't feel comfy when they work their asses off and who gets it is council16:28
ladogaZogG_laptop: yes, I understand that. I was just talking about Nokia generally16:31
ZogG_laptopNokia doesn't care16:32
ladogai hope those prices you talk about to people who are most active/talented in the community16:32
ladogaZogG_laptop: to way or another16:33
ladogathey've dumped pretty much everything linux related to please their new masters16:34
ladogaso i guess dos or don'ts of harmattan community wont interest them much16:34
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Lava_Croftas long everybody keeps blaming elop and ms19:01
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ladogaif anyone wants to watch spain-france on n9 you can do it with yle-dl :)21:38
ladogastream adress is
ladogaand can be played with (k)mplayer while it's downloading and I guess with default video player too21:40
rzri'd rather play "kick off"21:40
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ladoga :)21:43
befordseems like your thanks button mas missing for a while21:59
befordno rzr?21:59
ZogG_laptopbeford: step up on this thread btw if you care22:03
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i think you should too, it's not too late22:03
befordi've already commented22:04
ladogarzr: do you have n9 too or only n950?22:09
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djszapiN9beford, ping23:01
djszapiN9jonni, ping23:02
djszapiN9ieatlint, sup23:03
ieatlinttired, spent most of the day walking, just got back to hotel 5min ago23:06
djszapiN9same here23:06
djszapiN9though I am not so gentle to be in a hotel ;)23:07
ieatlintyeah, well, you also don't have jet lag and some other extenuating circumstances :P23:07
djszapiN9I am unsure what made me have a hefty dinner after the tons of food... :)23:08
djszapiN9beford, just wanted to say thanks for wpr!23:09
befordwhat is wpr23:09
djszapiN9wigi password recovery23:09
befordah its not mine , I just knew it was on the forums :P23:10
djszapiN9yes, I know, but you mentioned to me anyway. ;)23:10
ieatlintso it wasn't until i stumbled upon it that i learnt what christopher street day is23:12
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djszapiieatlint: great :)23:12
ieatlintyeah, was entertaining :P23:13
djszapiwell, I am now trying to survive23:14
djszapiI actually ate a lot more for dinner than at the summit, and I did not spare the food out there either...23:14
ajalkaneIs there any way I can ungoogle "christopher street day" from my computer and mind?23:17
djszapifill up your mind with Lumia23:17
ajalkaneAh... I think I'll rather keep chirstopher street day in my memory.23:18
djszapihaha xD23:18
djszapiI realized at the summit, a lot of things are mismatching23:19
djszapiThere is an enormous hype about Qt Android, but the situation: two people in pastime only.23:19
djszapiA lot of people were advertising Qt5 on Harmattan, but it is a pain in the ass to deal with (workflow, that is).23:20
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ajalkaneThe practical pain ia see of Qt5 on harmattan on my limited experience, is that there is no "store" that handles dependencies. And there is no other work flow well-defined by anyone yet.23:23
ajalkaneLike downloading the missing qt5 libs to some place23:23
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djszapidependencies are overrated!23:24
ajalkaneBut I do think it's quite possible. Harmattan might even be the only mobile system to have Qt5 support :)23:24
ajalkaneEven if unofficially.23:24
djszapiI wanna Qt6 actually.23:24
djszapiwell, you know what happened at the desktop summit last year...23:25
djszapignome 3 was not even out (?), but they made a gnome 4 meeting23:25
djszapior it had just been out.23:25
djszapias far as I understood, a tons of stuff did not enter Qt523:26
djszapithat is important.23:27
djszapi, tons of stuff*23:27
Venemo_N9actually, when Qt 4.6 was what everyone waited for, I jokingly said I'm waiting for Qt 523:27
djszapithat would have been probably a bad timing...23:27
djszapiQt4.7 was a good playground for seeing how royal painy qt quick 1 was.23:28
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djszapilet us hope the Qt Foundation will work out nice.23:29
Venemo_N9btw, what didn't enter Qt 5?23:29
djszapiwhat was late for Qt 5 xD23:29
djszapiAlso, the new signal/slot implementation is a hack23:30
ajalkanewhat's thy beef with the new signal/slot implementation?23:31
djszapihmm, so you have not checked out the implementation...23:31
djszapiit is as far as I know a template hell23:31
djszapidue to the fact, they had to copy paste methods around for different versions, like reference, not reference, different type etc23:32
djszapiessentially it is all cleaner with C++1123:32
djszapibut yeah, it is nice the runtime stuff was turned into build time.23:32
ajalkaneNo I haven't checked the implementation. I thought you had an issue with how it's used as  "end-user" coder23:33
djszapicome on, I am a hacker :)23:34
djszapiwho cares about end user xD23:34
ajalkanehehe true that... send in the C++11 patch!23:35
djszapiend users are just the margin source of cumbersome troubles. :p23:35
ajalkaneBut I guess they're being conservative with C++11. it'll take a while until it's widely available.23:35
djszapirough estimation was done by Thiago that about 50+ people would be needed in full time to just sustain the maintenance for this huge codebase ...23:36
djszapi(very rough estimation because three people calculated for CI etc...)23:36
ajalkaneI think Elop just made the headcount about 5.23:36
djszapiit is funny that everybody blames Elop xD23:37
ajalkaneHe's the representative, even if the BoD is the real blame for the strategy23:37
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djszapigradually disagree, sorry :)23:37
djszapiIf there is no MeeGo, probably there is no Elop either23:38
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ajalkaneAnyway, I think the chances are, that if Elop is fired that means the course changes.23:38
ajalkaneSure, I agree on that.23:38
djszapiIMO MeeGo killed Nokia.23:39
djszapiactually, you are right because then Elop;23:39
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djszapibut the situation was worse by that time anyway.23:39
DocScrutinizerthought as much23:39
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djszapiWe should have had Maemo summit in Dublin, not MeeGo :D23:40
Venemo_N9 whatever....23:40
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: let me fix that for you23:40
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ajalkaneYes, it's true, I don't think MeeGo was a good thing at that point of time.23:40
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hiemanshu23:40
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* DocScrutinizer05 watches excitedly how hiemanshu will "fix" the limited topic length23:41
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: there :P23:42
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DocScrutinizer05hiemanshu: thanks23:43
djszapiieatlint: were you at the OpenVG session ?23:43
djszapiI was lolled when I saw the topic...23:44
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: why are you mutated?23:44
ladogameego killed nokia only in a way that MS wanted it to be stopped23:44
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer and DocScrutinizer51, so many versions of you :P more like mutations :P23:44
DocScrutinizer05well, that's not even all the clients I run23:45
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: get this thing that built exactly for this, its called a bouncer :P23:45
ajalkaneMeeGo killed maemo's monumentum. Stalled toe progress. And thus time ran out and master Elop came in.23:45
DocScrutinizer05but xchat and konversation still don't play together nice via ZNC23:45
djszapiperhaps it would have been if Intel had done actually anything in the meego project...23:46
ajalkanes/toe/the/ ... although "toe progress" is very epic"23:46
djszapiat least in the security fw.23:46
DocScrutinizer05actually the constant /who of konversation killed my xchat-n900 standby time23:46
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: use Quassel, there is a desktop client, and one for N900 too23:46
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djszapiajalkane: so have you ported the toggleavailable app to Qt5 ? :)23:47
djszapidoes it now open at least up ? xD23:47
DocScrutinizer05there's been something about quassel, what was it, what was it?23:47
DocScrutinizer05aaah, needs a friggin RDBMS backend23:47
ajalkaneMy guess is that Maemo worked because it was a skunkworks kind of project. Once it became "proper" Nokia project in context of MeeGo it was suffocated by the bureacracy.23:47
ladogai see it like this. meego is just a name...harmattan is could be as well..or even better called maemo. not much wasted there.23:47
DocScrutinizer05ajalkane: you might be close23:48
ajalkanedjszapi: hah, yeah, I guess that one would be about changing one include path to get Qt5'd :)23:48
ladogaMS though nokia-intel partnership goes against it's interests and pressured US shareholders to push Elop as new CEO against BoD's plans23:48
djszapiajalkane: I wonder, if there is already any app in ovi store based on Qt5.23:50
djszapiI mean qtquick2 components based.23:51
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ajalkanedjszapi: I doubt it... but if there were they'd most likely be some game for the extra performance. Otherwise it's too much hassle for too little gain.23:52
djszapiI disagree with the too little gain...23:52
djszapiit is always a big result to open the gates up...23:53
ajalkaneI'm interested to hear about what you think are the big gains of qt5 in context of harmattan. I readily admit I know too little about it and am interested for other views.23:53
djszapione very huge one is to not abandoned Qt5 on non-desktop.23:54
djszapibut at least for mobile phones.23:54
ajalkaneHmm... harmattan is nicle platform.23:55
djszapinot that this would be any usable currently on desktop either...23:55
djszapiwell, another big gain, is to actually test the qtquick2 stuff23:56
djszapiwith ready made component set etc23:56
djszapisee limitations that did not come up during the development etc23:56
djszapiHarmattan components are kinda ported. The desktop components have a long way to go yet.23:56
* DocScrutinizer05 sighs about non-serverside /ignore lists23:56
djszapimostly technologically looking forward.23:57
djszapino real additional end user experience at this stage, I am afraid23:57
ajalkanelooking forward to what? There's no future for Qt5 on mobile.23:57
djszapiPardon ? Qt5 was designed especially for mobile as well.23:58
ajalkaneDesigned. Like a head was designed for Elop to axe.23:58
DocScrutinizer05ajalkane: quite obviously the benefit of qt5 for HARM is _very_ limited, given the somewhat EOL character of whole platform23:58
djszapiactually the first research project, and why this was created, was NB.23:58
djszapiI am unsure you are aware of that, but Qt5 has been way behind the feature freeze.23:59
ajalkaneDocScrutinizer05: my point is rather that harmattan is a very niche platform, and Qt5 on context of niche platform is niche^223:59
djszapithe paradigm change will not be refactored by any sense23:59
djszapiso if Qt5 is out, it is gonna be out with this paradigm.23:59

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