IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-06-02

ieatlintnokia kept saying a phone was coming, in the same announcement as meego being the future00:00
djszapiand you believed :D00:00
ieatlintafter meego conference last year, the rumours were strong the n9 was coming, but it wasn't announced until mid june00:00
ieatlintnah, i didn't :P00:00
djszapiHarmattan was totally beheaded from that day.00:00
djszapiin every sense possible.00:00
ieatlinti did up until december 2010, when my gf finally was like "ok, stop kidding yourself".. and then 2/11 came and yeah00:00
ieatlintyeah, i saw some of the older builds00:01
djszapi2010 was a joke...00:01
ieatlintwas pretty funny00:01
djszapihow many bugreports I made daily lol00:01
ieatlintyeah, i wish i could've downgraded an n9 to try the really old builds00:01
ieatlinti had access to one from oct 2010... bet it would've been hilarious00:02
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djszapiin any case, for the community (us), we have desktop, and pretty much Harmattan00:03
djszapiI do not see too many other options.00:03
djszapiright, we have PA, but that has nothing to do with mobile phones.00:04
djszapiAndroid is a super painy for Qt dev.00:05
djszapiand not native etc.00:05
djszapismall community etc00:05
petteriwhat is PA?00:05
djszapigoogle :)00:06
itsnotabigtrucknot google00:06
djszapiit is somewhat wondering someone does not know that yet :)00:06
djszapiieatlint: problem is that most people will be interested in desktop at the QtCS00:07
djszapinot much interest in my proposal IMO00:07
djszapior even in Android, etc00:07
petterii think native apps for desktop are phasing out00:08
ieatlintwhich is funny, because qt5 is really more about touch and embedded00:08
djszapiieatlint: why would it ?00:09
djszapiime, qt5 is just a new way of developing apps, no matter it is embedded, desktop or what not.00:09
djszapiwhat you wrote is more like Qt 4.7-4.800:10
tehdelyis there a qt5 dance00:11
ieatlinteh.. qml is less useful in a regular desktop00:11
djszapiieatlint: why ?00:11
djszapi(my artist friend is currently developing a desktop app with qml)00:12
ieatlintbecause i like my widgets, and i generally dislike applications that use widgets that aren't readily recognizable00:12
djszapiwhat do you mean by "widgets" ?00:12
itsnotabigtruckyou know, gui elements00:12
djszapiNative OS painting, the qwidget API, something else ?00:12
itsnotabigtruckbuttons, dropdowns, etc.00:13
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: that can be achieved in tons of different ways; qml is one.00:13
djszapiand more important: the most brightful so far.00:13
djszapifor the future.00:13
itsnotabigtruckieatlint is arguing that qml apps don't look native on the dekstop00:13
djszapithey do, if you use desktop components00:14
djszapithe painting is totally done by the OS that way.00:14
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djszapiiow, they use the good and old qstyle00:17
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itsnotabigtrucklmoura's qt5 deb packages don't seem to line up with the debian/harmattan qt4 packaging00:20
djszapiofc not, why would it ?00:20
djszapiqt5 is modularized in the first place.00:20
itsnotabigtruckbecause they should correspond with what debian does for qt5 which will presumably follow on from qt400:21
itsnotabigtruckfor example most of them should start with lib, making them something like libqt5-something00:21
djszapiI do not care about such minor things00:22
djszapiThere are way more important troubles.00:22
itsnotabigtruckyeah, but not agreeing on package names tends to cause problems meaning it's generally a good idea to avert the issues from the start00:23
Corsac(well, the library packages naming is done for a reason, not completely at random :)00:23
djszapino real problems00:27
djszapiit is mostly 'sed' question later.00:27
djszapiI personally care about issues, like something is broken, something requires a patch, what about the launch efficiency etc00:27
djszapiI do not really care at this stage how the library is called.00:27
djszapipackage, even00:28
itsnotabigtruckwell, you ought to, but whatever00:29
djszapino, people do not simply care00:29
djszapiit is simply a general practice:00:29
djszapi* feature freeze00:29
djszapi* api freeze00:29
djszapi* etc00:29
djszapithe most important is features in place.00:30
djszapiif that is done, things can be fine tuned.00:30
djszapinative OS painting or not is way more important question00:31
Corsacdjszapi: you miss the point00:32
Corsacdjszapi: as I said above, library naming is not just cosmetic00:32
Corsacdjszapi: it is especially important for upgrades00:32
djszapiCorsac: who cares about library naming at this point00:33
djszapiI do not miss any point; this is the personal opinion of many including me00:33
Corsacdjszapi: no idea what libs are involved, I'm just saying you might care00:33
djszapinot to mention the fact qt4 != qt500:33
djszapiCorsac: no, I do not00:33
itsnotabigtruckit's mostly a matter of not being sloppy00:34
djszapiin a not even beta software00:34
Corsacbut if you don't, fine, it's not really important for me00:34
djszapiI packaged our qt playground project00:34
Corsacit won't prevent me sleeping at night :)00:34
djszapias qtserialport00:34
djszapiwho cares :D00:34
itsnotabigtruckhigh quality programming means attention to all details00:34
itsnotabigtruckincluding package naming00:34
Corsacanyway, speaking of night…00:34
djszapihigh-quality programming means concentrating on the important tasks first00:35
djszapiand that is what Qt does anyway00:35
djszapifeature freeze, and then the low-level stuff00:35
djszapipackaging is at the veeeeeeeeery end00:35
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itsnotabigtruckhas there been any progress on nitdroid recently?01:05
itsnotabigtrucklast i checked there was no ability to make phone calls, for one01:05
mankelihey itsnotabigtruck01:05
mankeliwhat's up?01:05
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: not much01:06
itsnotabigtruckstill impatient for the release of pr1.301:07
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mankeliespecially since there's now first real application for inception; unrestricted system ui01:10
mankeliwell not "first real application", but first replacement for an original system package01:11
itsnotabigtrucksure took a long time :(01:11
itsnotabigtruckbootreason=sw_rst < anyone know what kind of crash causes that boot reason?01:15
itsnotabigtruckjust had a crash not too long ago, and i'm not even overclocked01:16
itsnotabigtruckMohammadAG: btw, you might want to tweak the install instructions in your posts, it isn't necessary to devel-su before incept01:18
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heymasterHow to use qtsparkl ? QtCreator can't find header..04:16
heymasterI want to use QtSparkl because i want save some data. Does it's good decision ?04:17
heymasterbut same thing04:20
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Arieping jonni05:15
Ariejonni: ping05:18
djszapiheymaster: what error messages are you facing ?05:20
Ariemaybe you can help05:21
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hiemanshuheymaster: try qsparql instead of qtsparql06:56
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MohammadAGitsnotabigtruck: A system daemon restarting more than 3 times will reboot the system09:24
MohammadAGMeet dsme09:24
mankelii just did yesterday09:25
MohammadAGI got that with system-ui, made a plugin that caused a segfault somewhere, it kept restarting, the device rebooted to a dismiss-able malf09:25
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Arkenoiis there *real* ps command for meego, not that idiotic busybox retard?10:55
koei know just easy debian's ps10:56
Arkenoidamn even top is retarded, no custom views/columns10:58
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ElleoArkenoi: rZr has procps in his repository:
Arkenoimp-harmattan-rm680-pr depends on busybox-symlinks-procps11:06
Elleowell you could simply unpack procps to /opt/procps or something11:06
Elleoand set your PATH to include it before /bin11:06
Arkenoidamn it sucks, i need shared libraries etc11:23
ElleoArkenoi: the only library you need for ps is included in the package11:25
Elleoyou just need to set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH11:25
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Elleosame for everything else in the package I think11:25
Elleocertainly top and ps work fine11:26
Arkenoiah. yes, it works11:28
Arkenoiso most cpu consuming tasks were feedengine, presenced, meegotouchhome and smartsearch. feedengine and smartsearch are leading with big gap. is it normal?11:30
Elleofor me none of those use are currently using any cpu except meegotouchhome, and then only if I have the display on, otherwise the only thing using the cpu much is top11:32
* Arkenoi remembers maemo5 rss reader that could eat enormous amounts of internet traffic just out of nothing11:32
Elleohowever I don't have any online accounts or anything so that might account for presenced not doing anything11:32
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Elleoand I only have a handful of feeds setup11:33
ArkenoiElleo, i am looking at ps cumulative stats, not current top11:33
Arkenoii have a handful of feeds too and i am trying to track down why the hell does my phone drains battery in 6-8 hours11:33
Elleowell in my case meegotouchhome and pulseaudio are the two main cpu users11:35
Elleo(I spend a lot of time listening to and some time recording audio though)11:35
Arkenoibut not feedengine? i guess it could go nuts again11:35
Elleofeedengine has barely done anything11:35
ElleoI did run into a power draining issue with messageserver a while back11:36
Elleoand had to disable one of my IMAP accounts because of it11:36
Elleowhich is apparently fixed in PR1.3 according to the bugzilla entry for it11:36
Arkenoi1381 ?        SNsl  55:43 /usr/bin/feedengine11:37
Elleofeedengine's only had 1 minute of execution time for me11:37
Arkenoi2200 ?        SNsl  68:51 /usr/bin/smartsearch11:37
Elleoand the device has been running for 3 and a half days11:37
Elleoand smartsearch has only had 2 minutes of cpu time11:38
Arkenoiit is for one and half days11:39
Arkenoidamn i hate this system full of ugly overnegineered things11:39
Arkenoiwhich no one ever really tested11:39
Elleo <-- here's a bug reporting high cpu usage with smartsearch, might be related11:42
Elleodidn't find anything about feedengine doing that though11:42
Arkenoino, it is not eating 100%11:43
Arkenoibut appears that something in there does not allow the phone to go to power saving mode properly11:44
Arkenoiand all diagnostic tools suck11:44
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AlphaX2someone with Harmattan Python/PySide and DBUS experience?11:52
ElleoAlphaX2: I have a bit of experience11:53
AlphaX2I need some help with, it's also written down here:
AlphaX2It's a bit strange and I'am not sure if the problem is DBUS/Harmattan related or if I'm doing something wrong... :-/11:56
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Elleonot sure I'm afraid, the only way I've interacted with the existing harmattan dbus is by registering my own dbus callbacks for them to call, rather than connecting to signals on the bus11:59
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AlphaX2Hmm :-/ It's crazy cause it's working , but only once^^12:01
ElleoI'm guessing maybe the signal listeners get cleared when the service provider ends12:02
Elleobut that's pure speculation12:02
AlphaX2I'm not sure, but I can also start my code, start mins and also hours later the camera app - it works, second try - not...12:03
AlphaX2anyway thanks! ;)12:06
Elleono worries, sorry I couldn't be of more help12:07
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*** ladoga has joined #harmattan12:50 can I check device (N9) IP adress from the command line?12:51
ladogaifconfig is not there12:52
deramcheck /sbin/ifconfig12:52
ladogaderam: thanks. it just wasn't in the users path:)12:53
* ladoga feels stupid12:53
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ladogabtw. N9 is wonderful, shame on Nokia for discontinuing it.12:59
ladogabest phone there is.13:00
AlphaX2jepp that is true13:01
AlphaX2Also the UI is the best on the market!13:01
AlphaX2And EVERYTHINK reacts totaly fast and fluid13:02
ladogaYes, the UI is lovely...everyone I showed it loved it. Even my mum bought N9 for herself. :)13:05
AlphaX2hehe nice13:05
ladogawhat I like most is that it feels like a real unix (linux) system. I can copy files between my desktop and phone whereever i am and run programs over ssh13:08
AlphaX2jepp that's a big bonus13:09
AlphaX2and makes a developers live so much easier^^13:09
ladogaheh..I'm not a dev, but yes13:10
ladogaeven i was able to port simple command line apps like pstree13:10
ladogasimply by compiling against arm and copying the files over to the phone13:11
AlphaX2I mean only testing via code/apps via ssh or working directly on the device with nano is very cool and an advantage13:12
AlphaX2I am working with Python so I don't have to compile something so it makes live more easy13:13
AlphaX2Another device/system need the whole IDE to deploy the app13:13
AlphaX2so it means a complete PC13:13
AlphaX2and maybe also USB cables and all that stuff :)13:13
ladogamaybe getting Elop as Nokia's CEO was just farsightedness from MS. I think they scored a big win on whiole tablet/mobile front when he decided to quit MeeGo. Windows 8 is mainly aimed to such devices.13:16
ladogaOtherwise I can't believe it would be reasonable or even incompetence to discontinue platform like this.13:17
ladogabut whatever. I have my N9 so I'm happy:)13:18
AlphaX2Yes but I am a bit scared about the fact that in the future my N9 will quit - and I have no idea what to do then... :(13:21
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AlphaX2I mean it's - I hope so - a very long time but one day...13:24
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epa_Greetings. I have managed to create a network not working problem to my N9.16:55
epa_If I log into the device to (with ssh)16:55
epa_I can download anything I want with wget16:55
epa_however no graphical app is able to access network16:55
epa_not through wlan nor gprs.16:56
epa_Any idea where to debug this from? I have some devel utils installed, but sadly tcpdump was not amongst those.16:56
epa_I am able to run tcpdump on the wireless AP thou and it shows the wget accesses and then also some access to email services is tried.16:57
epa_but browser does not work. application downloading does not work and sportstracker does not show maps.16:58
tommanetwork manager thinks it is not connected17:13
epa_tomma: yes this is something I though as well17:15
epa_tomma: don't know yet why thou.17:17
epa_apt-get install tcpdump from command line worked fine17:20
epa_anyone know where to find more information about the /usr/lib/package-manager/netconnection ?17:23
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epa_hmm bit frustrating that reboot helped :o17:34
epa_need to investigate better next time.17:34
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jonniroute -n might have been helpfull command to run, as it could have been as simple as default route missing.17:57
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jonni(or /etc/resolv.conf borged)17:59
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heymasterIs it normal to use qtsql for harmattan app?20:53
heymaster(because qtsql not supports backups)20:54
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TMavicahow to get back all things show except reflash? I did tracker reset, all things gone.21:05
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jui_hi, I'm developing an app that requires root access, but I don't know how can I launch my app as root from the menu so I always try from the terminal and It's an slow process, is there any other way?22:21
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Aardjui_: install it with proper aegis credentials22:39
jui_like this one? <credential name="UID::root" />22:40
jui_then I'm missing something because it doesn't work :(22:40
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Aardjui_: what are you using as policy?22:41
jui_policy? I'm sorry I don't understand, Its the second time that I have to deal with an aegis file, the other time was to access tracker which was pretty easy22:43
jui_where can I see that?22:43
Aard<request policy="inheritable set realxid"> <- that was required in some of my tests some time ago, even thou realxid should be default behaviour22:47
jui_ok I'm trying that22:49
rzrElleo, hi22:51
rzrElleo, how can i test eyrie ? it fails to detect anything ?22:51
rzrkimju, what about opening like on github ?22:53
* rzr Rebuilt #Eyrie from sources , you can install it from #rzr's shared #HarmattaN repo , guess music from #n9 mic22:54
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kimjurzr, hmm?23:02
rzrkimju, you're owner of ?23:03
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kimjuoh hell.. I've tought I've only got repositories under ~kimju/23:04
rzrso would it be possible to relocate some gitorious projects over there ?23:06
rzrharmattan ones of course23:06
rzrlike Elleo's Eyrie for instance23:07
kimjuyeah.. I'll try to move that xkeyboard thing under ~kimju23:08
rzri thought about helping pple to fix their opensource packages to build on obs23:10
kimjuafter that I don't have any reason to hoard that project name. I've made a mistake when creating that repo, sorry about that.23:10
rzrno i dont think it's a mistake23:10
rzrit was a good idea23:10
rzrwe just need to invite other packages maintainers to join it :)23:11
itsnotabigtruckAard: weird, all of those are supposed to be defaults23:13
itsnotabigtruckjui_: be careful with asserting root access for your app23:14
itsnotabigtruckbut anyway, it should look like23:14
itsnotabigtruck<aegis><request><credential name="UID::root" /><for path="/usr/bin/foo" /></request></aegis>23:14
itsnotabigtrucklike that23:14
itsnotabigtruckif your syntax isn't correct, it might fail silently23:14
jui_ok, let me try again ( I hate aegis )23:15
itsnotabigtruckalso, is your program a c/c++ binary or some kind of script23:15
rzrkimju, let me try to join that project23:15
itsnotabigtruckif it's a script, does it have a shebang line23:15
jui_it's  c++ binary23:15
itsnotabigtruckok,  hm23:15
itsnotabigtruckwell, make sure you have your manifest straight23:15
rzrkimju, there is nothing i can do for now23:16
kimjurzr, just a moment, I'll try to figure out how to move that one repo away from there23:16
rzrno need to move it away23:16
rzrit's in the right place23:17
kimjuit's broken since pr1.223:17
rzrthen we'll have to fix it :)23:17
rzri can try if you let me join that group23:17
jui_:S weird, now it works but I get this QEgl::display(): Cannot initialize EGL display: "Bad alloc (0x3003)"  and the application crashes, I'm sure it's the aegis manifest cause if I use the old one it works (no root access) fine23:18
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kimjurzr, created a team, transferred the project and added you as an admin23:22
itsnotabigtruckjui_: hmm23:23
itsnotabigtruckwell, i know that some things don't work at all unless you're user23:23
rzrkimju, awsome23:23
itsnotabigtruckdue to permissions23:23
jui_I don't know if it's  important but my app has no GUI, could that be the problem?23:24
itsnotabigtruckthe problems with running as root are specifically if your app has a gui :p23:24
itsnotabigtruckwhat are you requesting root access for, anyway23:25
kimjurzr, about that xkb thing.. I started to implement replacement for dpkg-divert in shellscript, but got busy with other things. there are quite a few corner cases that needs to be taken care of. too bad that they prevented using the real dpkg-divert as it could be used to work around aegis :(23:26
jui_I need to create .desktop files on the fly, I know there's a folder in user's home for that too, but  I also need to modify some .desktop that are in /usr/share/applications23:26
*** ladoga has joined #harmattan23:26
itsnotabigtruckwhat's it using qegl for23:27
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't sound like something a non-gui app would do23:27
rzrkimju, it could be incepted isnt it ?23:27
itsnotabigtruckrzr: nope23:27
itsnotabigtrucki don't think so, anyway23:27
jui_yeah, maybe I forgot to remove some code.. I will check again23:27
itsnotabigtruckyou could incept a modified dpkg that doesn't prevent using diversions23:27
kimjuI'd like to be able to install that pkg even without inception.23:28
rzri can understand that23:29
jui_itsnotabigtruck: do you know if I can submit an app that requires root acess to the maemo coding competition?23:29
ladogahas anyone packaged GNU Screen for Harmattan?23:29
ladogaor do i need to compile it myself23:29
rzrdone that23:29
ladogarzr: thanks:)23:29
rzrscreen: chmod 777 /var/run/screen23:30
rzronce installed23:31
rzrladoga, there is also tmux23:31
kimjuto be able to install additional keymaps, you need to replace either one of the files containing the definitions or the file containing list of files containing the definitions. neither of those are protected, but clean replacement requires something like dpkg-divert23:32
* ladoga needs to learn how to make deb packages23:32
kimjujust replacing the files is easy, but to be able to uninstall the package cleanly is not.23:33
rzrladoga, i can mentor you23:36
Elleorzr: you can find a list of songs that are known to work here for testing: but be aware that performance on the N9 doesn't seem to be as good as on the n95023:45
ladogathanks for offer. I'll come here to see if you're around when I next try to package something23:45
rzrElleo, i am on n95023:47
rzrElleo, maybe i use the wrong libs23:47
Elleorzr: make sure you're testing with a song that's actually in the library23:47
Elleoat the moment echoprint only supports around 200,000 songs23:48
rzri tested with the demo song23:48
rzrthat lost in space23:48
rzrfrom html5.grooveshark.com23:48
Elleothat one works pretty reliably for me23:48
rzru can double check using the package i built and shared in repo23:49
ladogarzr: that repository is more than nice, thanks again rzr.23:49
rzrladoga, dont thank me , just repo bugs :-)23:49
Elleorzr: I'll look later, have work I need to do at the moment23:50
rzrno problem23:51
rzri am going to the circus now23:51
rzrlater :)23:51
Elleobye, have fun23:51
*** rzr is now known as rZr23:51

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