IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-05-31

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arcean_Venemo, in my case N950 get noticeable faster00:10
Venemoarcean_: really?00:11
arcean_especially transitions in MTF-based apps00:11
Venemowell, mine got to the point where I just needed to reflash it.00:11
Venemomaybe if I install the updates right after the reflash, it'll be somewhat better than installing them on a few months old installation?00:12
arcean_that's what i did00:12
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VenemoI'll do that too00:18
Venemoand see what happens00:18
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thpis's package import into staging currently broken? or did i mess something up when submitting my packages?00:51
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GonzoTheGreatDoes anybody know how Conversation/messaging is sending an SMS? Qt mobility doesn't do it properly so I am trying to find other ways to achieve this.06:47
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kyoHi, I'm developing an application that requires cto create a file in /usr/share/icons so I need to run it with high privileges, is there a way to submit this to the store? is it possible to submit it to the maemo coding competition ?06:49
befordGonzoTheGreat, did you check harmattan showcase api example? its supposed to send SMS06:50
GonzoTheGreatyep. It ain't working. It either doesn't work at all or is a problem with the carrier. If anybody could check this, it would be helpful.06:52
GonzoTheGreatI see some symbian related entries in the qt-project bug tracker.06:53
GonzoTheGreatThe message gets indicated as "delivered" and on dbus I see a message from the carrier service sender which indicates a problem.  It gets there eventually.06:54
GonzoTheGreatThe strange thing is that once the reply is received its timestamp is immiedately after the "delivered" timestamp.06:55
GonzoTheGreatAs it is vodafone, you'll never know ;-)06:55
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befordheh yea06:56
befordI don't have it installed currently06:56
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befordovi qa requires apps to be optified right?10:24
hiemanshubeford: yes10:26
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djszapiHey! Has anybody tried qml2 on Harmattan ? I wonder if that launches faster.11:32
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GonzoTheGreatlook like the message sending issue is Vodafone specific. It still would be nice to know what the difference between the send methods is.11:59
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vladestwhat is qm12?12:20
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djszapiStecchino: I am not realizing what the max and min values for the random number generator in qca.12:25
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Stecchinodjszapi: I've not used the API directly either12:44
Stecchinono proper docs?12:44
StecchinoI don't even see a way to set min and max values12:45
Stecchinowould not really be in the spirit of a random number generator either12:45
Stecchinocouldn't you just use % or floor and ceil?12:46
djszapiStecchino: yes, every API user could do that.12:46
djszapibut then why library ? :)12:46
djszapiAlso, I am quite scared off by the fact, they have a weak random number generator by default in a crypto library :o12:47
Stecchinotakes a special situation/hardware to do strong random I guess12:48
djszapiwhat do you mean ?12:53
djszapiIMO, a weak stuff should not be occured in any way in a trustworthy crypto library or framework.12:54
djszapiI began to check the code for almost everything after that, that I use.12:54
Stecchinodjszapi: wikipedia for strong random number generator and you'll understand12:56
Stecchinoor laplaces daemon ;)12:56
djszapiStecchino: I do not understand12:57
djszapiwhat do you /really/ mean ?12:57
djszapiwithout reading stuff I know.12:57
djszapiMohammadAG: bad news to you. Qml2 is even slower than qml1 :p12:57
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djszapilong life to MTF :-)12:57
djszapislower, as in launch.12:58
djszapiMohammadAG: because of the booster13:01
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MohammadAGWhat boosterv13:02
Stecchinodjszapi: that a random number generator is never really random. And if you don't have special hardware and rand() is concidered weak13:02
djszapiMohammadAG: there is a qml booster with qt4/qml113:02
djszapiMohammadAG: which is not the case with qt5/qml213:02
Stecchinoso don't get to stuck up on details13:02
djszapiStecchino: wrong13:02
djszapiStecchino: /dev/random is totally random13:02
djszapiand there is a huge difference between "mathematically random" and "/dev/urandom" kernel core random13:03
Stecchinoyes, you believe that, but never work on a security sensitive application please13:03
Stecchinostay away from banking jobs as well13:03
djszapiStecchino: I have done that many times, and doing that atm as well13:03
djszapiwith other security experts.13:03
* MohammadAG whispers entropy13:04
djszapiactually, even on Windows, CryptGenRandom is way better than the one qca uses13:04
djszapiand that is totally prng13:04
djszapiin fact, what qca uses is good for kanagram or khangman to randomly give words.13:04
djszapibut a total fail for cryptography purposes.13:05
StecchinoBut I see what you mean about QCA's weakness: "QCA provides a built in source of random numbers, which can be accessed through this class"13:05
djszapisame with CommonCrypto on Mac.13:05
djszapiStecchino: ok to put it plain: they use rand()13:05
djszapiby default13:05
djszapithrough the qrand, qsrand thingy13:05
Stecchinoso that means they have a rand() { return 5; //rolled a dice, totally random ;) }13:05
djszapiwhich is totally unacceptable for crypto goals.13:06
Stecchino" You can also use an alternative random number source, by implementing another provider."13:06
djszapithat is irrelevant13:06
djszapithey include a weak rng in a crypto lib, and even worse by default.13:06
djszapito be even more worse they do not even document that on the QCA::Random interface with big and fat red letters.13:07
Stecchinoso qrand() not sufficient?13:07
djszapieven worse*13:07
djszapifor crypto purposese ? No, not at all.13:07
StecchinoI would think the implementation uses /dev/random13:07
djszapithey only make rand_r wrapping13:07
djszapiand a rand() as a fallback13:07
djszapithey make that thread safe13:07
djszapiso you get the same values in different threads.13:08
djszapithat is qrand about.13:08
djszapiwhich is good since qtcore is not a crypto lib13:08
MohammadAGStecchino: so that means they have a rand() { return 5; //rolled a dice, totally random ;) }13:09
MohammadAGReminds me of Sony13:09
djszapiStecchino: too bad the Mac guys made openssl obsolete :/13:12
djszapithis way, it is a bit hard to have a cross-platform library.13:12
djszapiwith the QCA architecture13:13
djszapiyou need to use different plugins.13:13
djszapiactually the QCA architecture relies on the fact, there is a cross-platform library underneath, and the architecture provides no guarantee for cross-platformness on its own.13:13
djszapiso it is not a cross-platform architecture to me to be honest. :-) It is more like just a wrapper.13:14
djszapicrypto++ is a cross platform architecture, but unfortunately they do not have Mac backend.13:16
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djszapiMohammadAG: were you aware of the fact, apps4meego will be merged with ?13:30
* djszapi has not been active recently13:30
MohammadAGHoping that means it'll be part of extras13:31
djszapiyeah, but they did not even contact us about Harmattan packages13:32
djszapiin the community repository and elsewhere.13:32
djszapithis bugs me a bit.13:32
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djszapithey wanna make alive.13:32
djszapifor Harmattan, apparently.13:32
djszapiI reeeeeeeeally hope they do not reinvent the wheel.13:33
djszapion an unrelated note: building qt5 with OBS is even more pain than kdelibs back then =)13:33
MohammadAGI hate obs13:35
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GonzoTheGreatIs it possible to mark a notification as read. I am intercepting an SMS and deleting it, but the notification remains.14:08
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: MohammadAG apps4meego is good idea but it's not really organized that good14:09
GonzoTheGreatRTFM -> notifications API. I hope that one works.14:14
ZogG_laptopGonzoTheGreat: btw have you changed your password?14:14
GonzoTheGreatvery funny14:14
ZogG_laptopi'm just checking if you saw that you typed it in here, you may not notice it, so i wanted to tell you. not laughing actually14:15
GonzoTheGreatthe reason I had that specific password was that I did the same thing before.14:15
ZogG_laptopGonzoTheGreat: what client you use?14:15
ZogG_laptopwhy don't you make it automatic?14:16
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GonzoTheGreatQuassel - a pain in the rear end14:16
ZogG_laptopi would recomend x-chat or irssi14:16
GonzoTheGreatfrom now on I always send /msg  nickserv help14:16
MohammadAGAnd what was wrong with's extras ZogG_laptop14:17
ZogG_laptopGonzoTheGreat: you can sent it in server window that noone will see if you even mistaken14:17
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i was talking about apps4meego here14:17
GonzoTheGreatwell this one has a server window as well. I just clicked one item lower... oh well14:18
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i think maemo's were better as they had apps manager integrated in sytem first of all as normal linux and no aegis as well14:18
ZogG_laptopGonzoTheGreat: i bet you can save password in settings14:18
MohammadAGZogG_laptop: I know, but apps4meego's client is an app manager locked to one repo14:19
MohammadAGPoint is, why didn't someone just make a harmattan distro on repository.maemo.org14:19
MohammadAGApps4Meego didn't help with aegis much14:19
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: as far as i know they have aegis credentials from nokia, but no deps and libs can be added =(14:20
MohammadAGAnd that couldn't have been added to extras? It could14:21
ZogG_laptopwhat exactly?14:23
ZogG_laptopaegis or deps or libs?14:24
ZogG_laptopi don't care about the domain, what i care is how it's made =)14:24
ZogG_laptopi still need to figure it out how to upload my app to apps4meego =)14:26
ZogG_laptoprZr told he would help me, but i had no time to bug him with that =)14:26
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: as well as integration with github harmattan organization would be nice, so it would built automagically from sources =)14:27
ZogG_laptopfor example it would do it or manually or automaticly if there were changes at 00:00 everyday =)14:28
X-FadeZogG_laptop: What would you want to upload to afm and which dependencies do you need?14:32
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: i need to try upload my app that doesn't have dependencies i think, but Elleo needs deps for his app14:33
GonzoTheGreataah great: notification example has a #if defined(Q_OS_SYMBIAN)  NotificationSession->markConsumed14:34
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: as about my app, it's okay, i just need to play with obs, read faq and maybe little help. with my app it's the problem on my end14:35
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ZogG_laptopok i need to go14:35
ZogG_laptopsee you guys14:35
GonzoTheGreatthe harmattan api has more holes than a swiss cheese.14:36
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Well, I can help you out if you have questions.14:37
thpX-Fade: niels!14:44
thphere you are14:45
X-Fadethp: Sure :)14:45
thpmay i bug you with my AFM problems?14:45
thpX-Fade: i have in MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Apps:Testing: brainparty, gpodder, mustr -> however, they don't show up on the staging page ("Applications waiting for review")14:46
thpdamn.. they show up now ;) they didn't yesterday..14:46
X-Fadethp: fixed it this morning :)14:47
X-FadeWas wondering when you'll notice :)14:47
thpok :) was i doing something wrong or did i miss a step, or was it just that the website didn't update?14:48
X-FadeStuck process, needed a kick.14:48
thpalright :) thanks for fixing it so quickly14:49
X-FadeNo problem, already reviewed some of them too.14:49
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heymasterHello, how to make ListVIew in QML themed ?15:03
heymasterlike standart harmattan objects ?15:04
tommause harmattan components in delegate15:08
heymastertomma: thanks15:08
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heymasterAnyone has information about Device Seed 2012 ?15:51
heymasterIf I start doing my app now is it possible to enter ?15:52
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heymasterOr competition is just for existing apps ?15:54
heymasterDon't know if program or not :/15:54
gabriel9if you have time16:05
gabriel9i don't have :(16:05
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djszapiHey! Naiv question, but do people care about Qt5 on Harmattan ?16:10
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vladestpeople do but Nokia does not16:23
djszapiI was just about to propose a Qt5 Harmattan session at the QtCS. If the community does not wish such a project in the future, perhaps it is not worthy... So, it is just like an assessment from me, if there is any interest. =) Yes, sure, it would be supported and collaborated by the community, and no Nokia involved apart from hosting some servers for the new build stuff.16:24
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vladestalso thre is important future of harmattan platform at all and future os Qt on mobile platforms16:30
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djszapiYep, I think Harmattan is the currently most mature thing to experiment with Qt5 on phones.16:32
djszapiI am not saying, it is an ideal platform for that, but I cannot mention any better alternatives for this purpose right away.16:34
djszapiI am also considering end users, who could use Qt5 based applications in the end.16:37
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GonzoTheGreat_MohammadAG: just looking through irc logs. Did you ever work out how to get rid of/block notifications.16:44
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MohammadAGWhy did I want to block notifications? :p16:46
MohammadAG(I honestly forgot)16:47
GonzoTheGreat_I am getting a specific SMS which is displayed in the application. I can delete the SMS but the notification remains.16:48
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jonnivladest: well nokia cares atleast a tiny bit, otherwise it wouldn't be giving out 25 N9's for best Qt5 project proposals...
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heymastergabriel9|work: thanks17:23
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heymasterWhere to find harmattan theme images list on web ? Like "image://theme/meegotouch-list-background-pressed-center"17:24
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GonzoTheGreat_poking around dbus I found how to remove notifications.17:28
vladestthe main qml disadvantage now is mess with qt components17:28
GonzoTheGreat_qdbus com.meego.core.MNotificationManager  /notificationmanager  com.meego.core.MNotificationManager.notificationUserId17:29
vladestI'm creating an app for symbian and trid to port it to n9 and failed17:29
GonzoTheGreat_and then use the value: qdbus  com.meego.core.MNotificationManager  /notificationmanager  com.meego.core.MNotificationManager.removeNotification user_id id17:30
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djszapiStecchino: heh, turns out even the openssl plugin is not prepared for supporting all the fundamental needs from openssl for QCA.18:13
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heymaster how to make list items framed ?18:40
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djszapiheymaster: qml or MTF ?18:43
heymasterdjszapi: qml18:44
heymaster there are great page on UX guidlines, but don't see any examples18:44
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heymasterdjszapi: it's easier with MTF ?18:57
fluxso I'm bulk-copying jpg files over scp to my desktop pc19:13
fluxis there a way to get the tags as well?19:13
SpeedEvilAren't the tags in EXIF19:13
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fluxI guess I must have a tool for doing specifically that, the sqlite3-backed (?) tracker db is probably out of reach until I use inception?19:18
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djszapiheymaster: you need to do that manually with qml due to the traits of this component:
heymasterdjszapi: thanks19:42
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rm_workflux: if it puts the Tags in EXIF (like i hope it does? not 100% sure though) then they would be in the jpeg files themselves, so it's be ok... might just need a tool for viewing the EXIF data but it should be in the files21:10
tommarm_work, i checked and couldn't see tags in exif21:11
rm_workthat's strange (and sad)21:11
rm_workit should be doing geo-tagging in EXIF at least :/21:11
rm_workdid Nokia pull a Nokia on this one? >_>21:11
tommaatleast GPS coordinates are there21:13
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trxhow do i run an application from a terminal with internet access permission?22:04
trxi tried: aegis-exes -a "CAP::net_raw" -a "CAP::net_bind_service" -a "CAP::net_broadcast" -a "CAP::net_admin" /bin/txpad22:06
trxwith no luck :/22:06
befordexec ?22:10
djszapitrx: why not packaging ?22:10
befordiis there a CAP for internet access?22:10
djszapiand what exactly are you trying to do ?22:10
trxdjszapi i dont want to package just to test the app22:11
Sazpaimon_my harmattan scratchbox environment seems to be missing QFormBuilder22:12
Sazpaimon_is that normal?22:12
ZogG_laptopbeford: noone gives me good feedback and suggestions that much =(22:12
djszapitrx: you might serious troubles.22:13
djszapiI help, if you package, otherwise I would not like. I might waste hours or days from my life that way.22:13
trxdjszapi why is that? how come eg ping can access the internet but my unpackaged application can not?22:15
trxit is in fact packaged and installed, i am just trying to test the new revisions without installing them22:15
djszapiyou are on your own then.22:16
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djszapiI would not like to help that way, sorry.22:16
trxi am confused now :)22:17
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trxit takes 10 mins to package my app and install it, how can i develop the app without being able to test it?22:18
djszapitrx: to put this plain: I had zillion helping hours and days due to "smart ideas" from users.22:18
trxwhy is this "smart idea"?22:19
trxi dont know how you develop your harmattan apps22:19
trxi use pascal and can't use any of Qt tools22:19
djszapidpkg-buildpackage is not a qt tool22:20
trxthats why i have n950, to test apps22:20
trxthank you anyway22:21
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trxdoes anyone else know how to give my application internet access with aegis-exec or however?22:22
jonnidepends what you mean by internet access, any app can access to internet, or you mean to make a server?22:28
jonnijust run with "aegix-exec /bin/txpad"22:29
infobotjonni meant: just run with "aegis-exec /bin/txpad"22:29
trxnot a server, just http22:29
trxPOST message to a http server at port 8022:29
jonniyou dont need any magic, just run with aegix-exec without any parameters22:29
djszapitrx: you are running devel shell, right ?22:30
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trxstill can get access22:37
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Sazpaimon_i dont understand why there isn't a PR1.2 binary repo22:41
Sazpaimon_it seems the sdk repositories are all on 1.0 still22:41
mankelii've heard it's about keeping everything compatible with pr1.022:45
jonniovi store requirement at the moment, but hopefully there will be change at some point.22:46
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mankeliprobably so that some crap-operators don't have to update their variants22:46
Sazpaimon_but Qt creator seems to be at PR1.2 iirc22:46
befordi thought ovi removed that requirement already22:46
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Sazpaimon_no matter, I'm just building libqt4* from the PR1.2 sources dvd22:46
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jonniand to ruin your day I can say, "no matter, I'm just using the fully nokia signed PR1.2 repository myself" ;-)22:48
mankelishare your secrets jonni!22:48
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mankelithe malf-kludge, and that repo :)22:48
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jonniand my vpnc client :)22:49
Sazpaimon_yes jonni show us the ways of the world!22:49
jonnipretty nice demo22:52
mankelithank you :)22:52
mankelinow how about that repo... :D22:53
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jonnisorry,  that one is for internals only, but lets see if there is ever coming any PR updates, then at the same time there might come sdk update. But then again nobody has ever said that there even will be a PR update.22:55
Sazpaimon_i have no problem building the packages myself22:56
jonniwell yes dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot should work just fine.22:56
Sazpaimon_strangely qt4-x11 requires a version of quilt more recent than the rootstrap provides22:56
mankeliwell it's annoying metawork vs. actual work22:56
Sazpaimon_ie. one with quilt pop22:56
Sazpaimon_i just installed quilt 0.50 from ubuntu and it worked fine22:57
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jonnimaybe ovi store mentality was that pr1.0 was perferct and you can code anything with it :)22:58
Sazpaimon_>implying ovi store has a mentality22:59
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jonni"make it hard, dont explain rejections with more that 1 lines and remember to make publish website a nightmare" :)23:00
jonniwell actually its always interesting to see what QA finds, I just submitted a new app today... should know the results in a week or two.23:01
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truncked Hi... I am having a nokia N9... today afternoon, the screen just blinked and went off.. i tried rebooting it... and it's not booting.. anybody can help me please ?23:16
befordwas the battery too low?23:17
beforddid you overclock it23:18
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trunckedI am not sure beford ...23:18
trunckedI was using wazapp, and got a new message.. then suddenly, the screen went off23:18
trunckedit blinked a couple of time earlier in the day23:18
trunckedi don't know what is "overclock"23:18
trunckedthough, the battery might have been low.. but i am not sure..23:19
trunckedbut it's been for more than an hour on the charger.. and it cannot book23:19
trunckedwhen i try to start it... it vibrates once.. then the light goes off23:19
trunckedalso, i would like to mention that normally, when i start it.. it asks me for the password... coz i have put a password23:19
trunckedbut now, i don't even see the "nokia" logo23:20
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koeno nokia logo at all?23:20
trunckedno nokia logo23:20
ZogG_laptopmankeli: wtf was that?23:20
trunckedonly vibrates once.. then black screen again23:20
mankeliZogG_laptop: a demo.
trunckednow, still on the charger.. the light is blinking..23:21
koeif charging wont help, flash it23:22
trunckedhey... i don't know how to flash it..  :)23:22
ZogG_laptopmankeli: demo of what? (no sound here) — from video i didn't get anything23:22
trunckedbut also, if i flash, do i lose warranty ?23:22
ZogG_laptopmankeli: it's an app? or app that just shows video?23:22
trunckedcan i just click a combination of buttons.. and it will go back to factory settings ?23:22
trunckedkoe: what is the meaning of "flash it" and how do i do that ?23:23
koenope. go to talk maemo org23:23
koen9/n950 thread23:23
mankeliZogG_laptop: it's a app. which uses libsdl and gles 2.0 to show stuff in realtime23:23
trunckedthere is no other option but to flash it you mean ?23:24
koeif it wont boot, ni23:24
mankeliZogG_laptop: the eye part was a video of course, decoded by gstreamer to an opengl texture23:24
trunckedand i am using linux on my laptop.. can i flash it from there ?23:24
koeoff course23:25
trunckedwhat about the warranty thing from nokia ? do i lose it ?23:25
koeso n9 thread, topic called flasjing guide23:25
ZogG_laptopmankeli: so you just coded demo? i though it was demo of app and not demo — the code demo23:26
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
mankeliZogG_laptop: yeah, it's just an realtime animation basicly23:26
ZogG_laptopmankeli: opensource btw?23:27
ZogG_laptopmankeli: maybe it's better to make app?23:27
trunckedwhen i flash.. i lose all data right ?23:27
heymasterBest way to represent C++ array data to QML ListVIeW23:27
ZogG_laptoptruncked: backup and depends if you flash emmc23:28
ZogG_laptoptruncked:but apps go away - yes, so backup23:28
trunckedbut i cannot start it to back-it up... :)23:28
mankeliZogG_laptop: well the code is quite horrible, so i'd rather not share it. it was done in terrible hurry for the party :)23:28
ZogG_laptopmankeli: not bad23:28
mankelithank you :)23:29
befordyou cn flash only the OS truncked23:30
befordand no data loss should occur23:30
ZogG_laptopmankeli: what party?23:31
mankelistream nine23:31
befordhowever I think its a little too early for a flash, well not sure if you should give it a little more time in the charging, you need a decent % to flash it anyway23:31
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ZogG_laptopmankeli: if those afforts for a nice game — it can make money for you and entertain us on other hand23:33
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mankeliZogG_laptop: well in finnish game industry (mobile especially) most have their roots in demoscene23:35
mankeliso it kinda happens all the time23:36
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RST38hSo any PRs on the horizon?23:37
ElleoRST38h: there was some article a while back claiming that pr1.3 should be arriving sometime around now; no idea how accurate that was though23:39
mankelisomebody said that it is supposed to come out in may23:39
mankeli20 minutes :)23:40
matrixxmankeli: hey, you got the deb out, great!23:40
matrixxmankeli: btw, I gave two stars for it ;)23:40
trunckedbeford: do you think two hours on the charger is not enough ?23:41
trunckedor maybe if i leave it more, there is hope it can start ?23:41
mankelimatrixx: in youtube?23:41
matrixxmankeli: at stream :)23:42
mankeliaah :)23:42
mankeliit's nice to hear that23:42
mankelieven tho the demo was quite rushed, especially the end23:43
mankelii'm glad that people liked it23:43
befordtruncked, well I have heard here that it takes some time to charge if your device is flat on battery, but I have no experience regarding that, maybe DocScrutinizer51 knows23:47
trunckedDocScrutinizer: any idea ?23:47
ZogG_laptopanyone here can paste me  ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs23:48
trunckedand how do i know the battery level beford , now since the phone is off.. i can just see the light blinking23:48
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trunckedbeford: ... hehehe.. now the light is not even blinking23:48
ZogG_laptoptruncked: if it's always on - it' on23:48
trunckedit's always on23:49
ZogG_laptopthat it's full23:49
trunckedso, now is the moment of truth... it should start now23:49
trunckedright ?23:49
ZogG_laptopnot sure23:49
trunckedshould i unplug it from the charger before attempting to start it ?23:49
ZogG_laptopanyone can paste the thing i asked23:50
trunckednow, the other thing... what if there was a problem in the screen... i mean it started blinking before all this happened... what if the screen is damaged for some reason ?23:50
DocScrutinizer51truncked: yes, it can takes hours for a device to resurrect from totally flat battery. afaik23:50
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: it's full if led is always on afaik23:51
trunckedguys... same problem... doesn't start... just vibrates once.. and that's all.... black ugly screen23:52
koeflash it then23:53
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trunckedwaiting for the download to finish...23:54
trunckedit's about 1.2 Gb23:54

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